Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/October 2010

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October 31

Ivorian presidential election

Moved from FE
The first since the civil war. Return to democracy. There are doubts about the elections, however. Nightw 15:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
The election has taken place after being delayed since 2005. Not sure at this point if there will be a second round. Grsz11 21:47, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I think we should wait for the results before determining whether or not to post this; if there is a run-off, then I don't think that the blurb will be notable enough for ITN. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:48, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Any word on results? Modest Genius talk 20:10, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Promises have been made to post partial results. Some AP articles indicate that there will be a second round. Nergaal (talk) 00:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
I've not seen the official results yet, but the three-way split means that a second round will be inevitable. Rendez-vous November 28! Physchim62 (talk) 19:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Presidential election in Brazil

The new president will be known soon. Brazilian presidential election, 2010. --Tone 21:25, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Obvious support - BRIC country elections are clearly notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:41, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
ditto, Support. One of the largest nations on earth. There will be substantial media coverage. ITNR.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
and it's Dilma Rousseff the winner. [1] Physchim62 (talk) 23:01, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
As soon as something is updated I'll put it up. I'm happy to bold Roussef's article if that's easier to update in the short-term. It defies convention a bit but this should go up ASAP.--Mkativerata (talk) 23:08, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Rousseff's article is sufficiently updated. The election article seems to have a few WP:SYNTH problems, on the basis of a quick read through, so I think it's better to go with Dilma Rousseff. Physchim62 (talk) 23:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
support per Eraserhead1--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posting Not ideal - it's a very short update and another sentence to the lead would be good - but it's good enough not to hold up a clearly newsworthy event. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Lee Westwood becomes number one golfer

copied from FE

  • Lee Westwood has displaced Tiger Woods as the world's number one golfer.1 Woods had held the number one spot since 2005.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Support: Very notable overtake, seeing Woods' status as a golfer and his recent controversy. However, many sources are saying that Westwood is not officially first until tomorrow, so it would be wise to wait. Better sources: [2], and [3]. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose We already have at least four golf stories every year: leadership potentially changes weekly (although in reality much more rarely): title is a relatively recent innovation. Kevin McE (talk) 20:09, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Kevin McE. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:50, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Tiger Woods has been at the top since 2005. You cannot say with a straight face that leadership in golf changes frequently. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 21:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support This is the rare occasion on which we should post a rankings change. Tiger's been there for over five years. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:58, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Kevin McE--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:20, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Tiger Woods wasn't going to stay on top? Who knew. Grsz11 21:23, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Uh, ok, though I think until a couple of months ago hardly anyone knew. In any case the rankings are changing now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Three of the opposes here are based on the logic that the rankings change 'weekly'. That's not inaccurate per se but the number one spot hasn't changed since 2005.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
We don't post changes in tennis ranking or FIFA ranking and so on. We just post the most prominent results, the rest are calculations. --Tone 21:42, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Let me clarify my opinion. I oppose because he didn't win some major championship at this time, and the ranking is purely an opinion on paper. Grsz11 21:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support The first change in number one in five years is clearly notable whether or not people didn't see it coming. Just because we already have four golf items doesn't mean this one has to be excluded. --PlasmaTwa2 21:55, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I wanted to support this, but the news here is that Woods is not number 1 anymore, not that the other guy got it. And this sort of news doesn't quite work: it is like saying Usain Bolt lost the 100m world record, and that does not work for #1. Nergaal (talk) 18:38, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
That is great logic. Struck my support. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 22:38, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
  • It might be a bit late now, but I support this one. This is the first time the golf no.1 has changed in five years - that's clearly notable. As for the comment above about Usain Bolt, I'd say a new 100m world record would be notable enough for ITN as well. Robofish (talk) 18:17, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Support because this switching of golf's number one position ends a record breaking streak of weeks at the top of the rankings by a golfer. Ks0stm (TCG) 18:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose due to Nergaal's logic. And the fact that we didn't post Lorena Ochoa giving up the women's earlier this year. --Smashvilletalk 19:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. This is just an artificial ranking list, lets stick to posting the results of actual sporting events. Modest Genius talk 20:12, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Death of Harry Mulisch

- Dutch author dies aged 83. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

The article is mostly a list of his works--it doesn't give enough information about his notability for me to support, though he may in fact be very notable. Oppose for now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Eugen Simion, don't you understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a news agency? That's Wikinews' work... --Diego Grez (talk) 17:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, one of the country's most respected and successful writers. De ontdekking van de Hemel was voted "Best Dutch Book Ever" in 2007. Since his last book was published only 9 years ago, I'd say this is probably of great interest to many readers. Nightw 09:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Support. Final member of the "Big Three", regularly suggested as a possible Nobel laureate, writer of more than 30 books, the film of one of his books won an Oscar and a Golden Globe. International coverage on the BBC, CBC News, Bloomberg, The Daily Telegraph, Gulf Daily News, ABC News, Reuters India. "An enormously influential figure" according to The New York Times. --candlewicke 00:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Too late to post now anyhow. Nightw 14:59, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Expo 2010 close

- Ends today with a record of visitors. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 11:26, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Support because its been the largest Expo for 40 years. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:43, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
  • actually largest expo and maybe gathering of all time anywhere. 73 million visitors!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. We posted the opening, fine, but I don't think we need to post the closing as well. These Expos aren't that big a deal in the general scale of things. Physchim62 (talk) 17:48, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Physchim62 -- I think posting the opening was sufficient. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
While I see you guys point, this expo was particularly significant. More-so than most others IMO. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:34, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Slight oppose: I agree the fact that it was a record-breaking expo is very significant to mention, but mention it a second time for this reason? I'm not so sure. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:57, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose--doesn't need to be posted again.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:52, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Support as I nominated this when the record was broken and now seems a good time to post it. International coverage includes The Korea Herald, Voice of Russia and The New York Times. --candlewicke 00:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Weak oppose. The closing itself is a non-event, but the record does raise some interest. However 'Chinese people flock to event showing off China to the world' is hardly surprising. Modest Genius talk 00:48, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Istanbul bomb blast

15 people injured after a suicide bomb in Turkey. [4] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:30, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Support. 2010 Istanbul bomb blast created.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:49, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
And is still way too spartan to be on the front page. It literally has no more information than a blurb would. --Golbez (talk) 11:03, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Of course, I should add, that my support is contingent on the article's expansion. I think that's to be expected in these types of current events. It just happened--there really isn't anything to add to the article yet. I think is reasonable to anticipate that as more information comes out the event's notability will become apparent.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
The article has now been expanded a bit, though I'd still wait for more information.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Article has been expanded sufficiently. Story is sufficiently important. __meco (talk) 18:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Only fifteen injuries and no deaths. The occurrences of such events in a hotbed area such as Turkey should be implicit, and thus more attention should be given to particularly extraordinary events.--WaltCip (talk) 18:46, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I think a suicide bombing in a major European city is fairly notable even if noone was killed.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support significant casualty toll. Istanbul is not Pakistan and such occurrences are not routine there.--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:17, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose no deaths, and Turkey is used to bomb attacks. Nergaal (talk) 21:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. As stated, no deaths were recorded, but this is still Istanbul and it had the potential to cause massive damage. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Weak support Any such incidents happening in Europe are indeed interesting; Mar4d (talk) 09:46, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Posted. Rough consensus, decent article and nearly 23 hours since last update.

Belated oppose Turkey isn't exactly the stable European nation, and very miniscule effect (no deaths, limited injuries). I'm sure there was a multi-car accident in the United States with more injuries today. Grsz11 01:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think there was consensus for this. --Johnsemlak (talk) 02:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Remove. Consensus should not be subjective. There either is or is not consensus; there's no middle ground. There is no consensus to post this story.--WaltCip (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Support. It's Istanbul (not Kurdistan) we're talking about here. It's pretty stable, and the story is notable. Nightw 15:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
4.5 suports + nom versus 3.5 oppose votes does not look like consensus to me. Considering the Bagdad entry will be put up soon, can we get rid of this one? Nergaal (talk) 21:11, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Comment Um, that actually does sound like consensus, at least for ITN purposes. I see 4.5 supports (nom + 3 supports + 1 weak support [0.5]) and 2.5 opposes (1 strong oppose [you can't make your vote "count" more] + 1 oppose + 1 weak support [0.5]). Further, given that you and John have suggested that Turkey is rampant with terrorism, there are ample grounds to ignore your remarks. Turkey, and especially Istanbul, is not very frequently subjected to terrorism. Further, the attack occurred in Taksim Square, which is the equivalent of a bombing in Times Square or Leicester Square. This was a bombing at a major square in the center of a major world city that isn't normally subjected to terrorism. Further, this news item was the top story on news sites around the world on Saturday. No, the Baghdad bombings should not replace this one. They are unrelated. They didn't happen in the same city, country, or continent. Cut the orientalism. -- tariqabjotu 22:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
I am counting opposes for: -WaltCip, me, Grsz11, and a weak oppose = 3.5. Nergaal (talk) 23:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, and I'm assuming the admin who posted the item can't see the future. Therefore, I didn't count Grsz11's oppose or Night w's support. -- tariqabjotu 00:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Support. When was the last time something like this happened in Istanbul? It certainly doesn't happen every day. --candlewicke 00:21, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

  • This is ridiculous wikipedia HAS articles with bombings IN Istambul in 1999, 2003, 2004, and 2008 and a second 2008 one. This is perhaps one of the most targeted cities by terrorists outside countries in the Middle East. Nergaal (talk) 01:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
    • Shall we also refrain from posting about terrorism in London? From this century: 2001, a second 2001 one, 2005, a second 2005 one, 2007. -- tariqabjotu 02:52, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
      • How many English speakers does Istanbul have? Sorry, I meant to ask: how many orders of magnitude less English speakers are there in Istanbul versus London? Nergaal (talk) 03:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

October 30

2010 International Rules Series

In international rules football, Australia defeat Ireland to win the 2010 International Rules Series.

As reported in Australia, Ireland and on the BBC website. It brings together Australian rules football and Gaelic football, while there is also a Sky Sports article comparing this to The Ashes cricket game between Australia and England so thought I'd nominate it since all three of those games are usually posted or listed at ITNR. It is Australia's first win since 2006. --candlewicke 04:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose we already have waaay too many announcements on football varieties that are not played... with the feet. In this case especially, either of those two sports are really played only in 1-0.5 countries in the world, so calling it "international rules" is misleading (probably as much as calling NBA campions as world champions even after losing to the EuroLeague champions). Nergaal (talk) 04:27, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Bad enough we feature those individual sports, we don't need an even less insignificant one. Grsz11 04:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Question I knew the AFL Grand Final trended worldwide on Twitter. Did the Gaelic football and this one trended too? Pretty silly we'd base ITN decisions on Twitter but that may give a measure on how massive this is. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 06:21, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose not a proper sport, something improvised for one week per year. There is less talk of it in Australia than state league transfers etc. Nobody trains for it properly. Not shown live on TV, negligible media coverage YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 04:33, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Yellowmonkey--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose gimmick. --Mkativerata (talk) 06:06, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

2010 eruption of Mount Merapi

The page could use some work, but a volcanic eruption is certainly a major event. > 30 deaths already and the *actual * eruption hasn't started yet. ...Can we put this one on sleeper? ResMar 02:50, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Btw, I'm not familiar with ITN, so... =) ResMar 02:55, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, article seems long enough. --candlewicke 04:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose until the eruption actually takes place; and even then, if low causalities and damages are reported, I would still oppose. Nergaal (talk) 04:30, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I * might * have the time to sandbox it and fix it up. No guarantees though, as lately I've been quite busy. =) ResMar 04:55, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support when the eruption occurs. --Diego Grez (talk) 13:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Power snooker

Oppose very strongly: gimmicky new version of a sport which has had precisely one event in history. Kevin McE (talk) 21:36, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Support we usually post the first event in a competition that has the potential to grow really well (as was with the case of Youth Olympics); this looks like could catch on since it is more engaging. Nergaal (talk) 04:32, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
But that would be WP:CRYSTAL. Grsz11 04:45, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Then why did we post the Youth Olympics? Nergaal (talk) 22:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Because that wasn't a matter of guessing. That was an event sponsored by the IOC, and was sure to take off. Sure, it was a little WP:CRYSTAL, but there was definitely more reason to ignore it than this. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:37, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose the article suggests the tournament wasn't very sucessful.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:55, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - pretty much per Kevin. Fad.  f o x  06:34, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Beatification of Szilárd Bogdánffy

Szilárd Bogdánffy was a Roman Catholic auxiliary bishop. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 11:36, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

It's beatification, not canonisation, we usually post only the latter. --Tone 11:40, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Tone. Beatifications are quite common in the Roman Catholic Church. Physchim62 (talk) 20:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose we don't even post canonizations (unless there is something special like it was with the first Aussie). Nergaal (talk) 04:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

UN places global ban on geoengineering

This is pretty drastic. A ministerial conference in Japan of the 193 signatories to the Convention on Biological Diversity decides to impose a global ban on geoengieering experiments and projects to manipulate the world's climate. __meco (talk) 09:33, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks interesting, is there any article update? --Tone 11:40, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Seems misleading, as all I can find is a willingness to ban geoengineering, but not an actual imposition. Find a source for the claim, please. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 16:28, 30 October 2010 (UTC) __meco (talk) 17:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. While it is very interesting, the ban states that "no climate-related geo-engineering activities that may affect biodiversity take place, until there is an adequate scientific basis on which to justify such activities". So I think it is limited to a point where it isn't completely forbidden, especially if our planet ever needs that kind of drastic solution. So I'm neutral on this one in terms of notability. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 00:55, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I am confused to as what is this actually supposed to mean. Is China safe now from being obliged to take care of its trash it is spitting in the atmosphere? Unless a clear article on this is created, it can't go on the main page. Nergaal (talk) 04:45, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Miss World 2010

Decided in less than 10 hours.(Lihaas (talk) 05:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC));
Oppose Beauty pageants, as a group, have no place being glorified on the front page of an encyclopaedia. Courcelles 05:10, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
wow, that was quick. But precedent has been set.Lihaas (talk) 05:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Courcelles. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:23, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm not against posting beauty pageants (are they really less trivial than sports events?) but I'd support doing so only based on evidence of notability sufficient for ITN (viewing figures, global interest, coverage, etc) My first check was the BBC News website and the BBC Entertainment section--I found no mention of it on either place. WP says that Miss Universe is the most publicized global beauty pageant, so I'd say we should post only that. also, I believe Miss World was not posted last year.1--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:36, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
In August this year Miss Universe wasn't posted, with similar arguments to above being used in opposition, though there was considerable support as well. Beauty pageants seems to be a bit divisive.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:22, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
The SMH reckons Miss World "annually rakes in a global television audience of about a billion viewers". I'm amazed - I thought it had stopped in the 70s. I'm instinctively opposed (per Courcelles), but remain open to other arguments. TFOWR 09:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, well the SMH does qualify as a reliable source of course but I'd like to see further confirmation of a billion viewers--that's more than the FIFA World Cup final. Perhaps it's some sort of cumulative figure?--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, I got the impression it was "a typical year's viewing figures". It surprised me, too. I don't know anyone who watches Miss World, but I maybe know the wrong people ;-) TFOWR 09:45, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
This looks like lazy journalism copying a promotional claim. Regarding something else, the SMH story (actually an AFP story they copied) quotes a page on the official site [5] in the paragraph after their "about a billion viewers" claim. Elsewhere the quoted page says "viewing audience of over 1 billion". Event organizers often claim very exaggerated world wide viewer figures. They conveniently omit to break it down by country and there are no serious sources for world wide figures so it's hard to directly prove they are full of BS. It seems they sometimes just add the whole television owning population of countries showing the event. See also List of most-watched television broadcasts#World. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:28, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, as Miss Universe was not posted, I see no reason why to post Miss World, as the two pageants are more or less similar. --Tone 11:40, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support iff this, rather than Miss Universe, is considered the top "event": I suspect that opinion on that depends on the broadcasting rights held by the source enquired. If we can compare it with a sport, this is (for the purposes of this support) the top event of genuinely world-wide competition. That judgement is subjective does not prevent our publishing of sports like gymnastics. Those of us in the politically correct west might think that this is a throwback to the 1970s, but it is massive in many parts of the world, and, as I often argue, it is good that ITN reaches beyond the scope of US/UK newspaper headlines. Kevin McE (talk) 13:52, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Regarding this edit summary of yours, I thought you were a Roman Catholic priest? (based on your self-introduction on the user page) --BorgQueen (talk) 14:03, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
On the Internet, nobody knows if you are a dog or the Prime Minister of Japan ;) --Diego Grez (talk) 14:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support Winner has now been decided, a billion viewers,notable event. she deserves ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
We should really start the discussion all over again as it was brought here hours before the crowning of Alexandria.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per nominator. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 15:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Yeah and she also became the 60th winner which is notable in itself.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:28, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
    • How?! Grsz11 15:44, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
      • Becoming the 60th winner of the biggest beauty pageant in the world is a notable event, just like if someone had won the gold medal at 100 meters at the Olympics etc etc.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
        • Because 60 is such a notable number as opposed to 61? 74? Grsz11 15:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
          • No point to discuss this, Its obvious already that you are opposed so.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:52, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
            • Opposed to ridiculous rational, yes. Grsz11 15:53, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Get over it oppose. Not notable, end of. Strange Passerby (talkcontribs) 15:49, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Not notable winner, and this pageant doesn't seem to be in the international interest, per my quick news search (BBC, The Times, WaPo, Yahoo). EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 16:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Its veiwed by about a billion people every year its estimated so it is of public interest. But you might be right that overall news media nowadays dont have even the biggest beauty pageant in the worlds winner as a huge story. But yes their is public interest anyway.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:16, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
@KevinMcE--the Miss Universe article claims that Miss Universe, not Miss World, is the premier competition, but if you read the source they reference it's mainly based in TV ratings in the US, I think. @BabbaQ--the 'one billion viewers' claim is likely exaggerated, though it may very well have a large global audience--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Proposal. Hey, guys, look at this one: Russian actor and bodybuilder Alexander Nevsky won the 60th Mr. Universe contest in Brusno, Slovakia ([6] [7] [8]). Perhaps the 60th Miss World and the 60th Mr. Universe may be combined in a single line of news and that way become worth of the ITN, eh? ;) GreyHood Talk 17:40, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not a good idea IMO. Those are two different pageants. Besides, it's only the women's events that get big publicity. --Tone 18:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, but won't the combination of the two 60th editions of different pageants for girls and for boys look nice and interesting in the newsbox? ;) And, afterall, the second event was even won by old Arnie once long ago, while there are no comparable stars among the winners of the first event ;) GreyHood Talk 19:21, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Isn't the 1994 Miss World Aishwarya Rai a hugely popular Bollywood star? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 19:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
I've seen dozens of movies with Arnie, and only one with Aishwarya Rai (and it wasn't a Bollywood movie). Arnie > Rai :) GreyHood Talk 20:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Btw, even the names of the winners are similar: Alexandria and Alexander :) GreyHood Talk 19:30, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Strong support whatever happened to NPOV. why are women flaunting their beauty any less important than college dropout guys wrestling, running behind a stupid ball, trying to hit a ball into a hole or trying to swim across a channel faster than the next guy. do any of those activities solve world hunger or any other serious issue which a beauty pageant doesn't ??? Again it is clear that this is a globally widely watched event with major interest worldwide so it is a worthy ITN item. a billion viewers is reported by multiple RS [9][10]. I know in India ( which has produced 5 miss worlds) these are insanely popular. we should not bring our own value judgements into this.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:08, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Strong WTF oppose. How has ITN dropped so low as to be even discussing this? Physchim62 (talk) 20:03, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
as long as their are a billion people watching such "low events" I think we are obligated to drop so low to discuss this ;). though my girlfried would rather watch well muscled guys with average IQ of 48 kick a ball into a rectangular target.--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:20, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
A billion people watch Shakira's butt, but that doesn't mean we have to post to ITN the fact that she played in Rosemont, Illinois last night [11]. Physchim62 (talk) 20:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Are you honestly comparing Miss World with Shakiras butt? Weak argument from the start to end.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:44, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
No, I'm not. Shakira's butt is far more notable in terms of its coverage in secondary sources and its influence on modern popular culture than the 2010 Miss World meat market "competition". Physchim62 (talk) 21:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Btw, what is so notable about Shakira's butt? (I am not a pop fun and just don't know anything about this) And why there is no article called Shakira's butt if it has so much influence on the world culture? ;) GreyHood Talk 21:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps it should be a redirect to Hips Don't Lie ;) Physchim62 (talk) 21:30, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank's, I've done some search on YouTube and see what you mean. %) GreyHood Talk 21:49, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
If a billion people watched Shakira's or anybody else's butt simultaneously I would strongly support putting it on ITN ( along with a picture of the butt)--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:50, 30 October 2010 (UTC) are so right. and that is why we should indeed have Alexandria on the ITN section. Good point.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
I couldn't find viewing figures for the opening ceremony of the 2010 World Cup ;) Physchim62 (talk) 21:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Strong support for this new suggestion. sounds like a nice compromise.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean my suggestion? It is really nice if you do, and the newsline may be indeed very nice if the suggestion gets further support. GreyHood Talk 20:52, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Exactly.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
You do realise that you've !voted twice with "strong support"? As with anything else you can't! Strange Passerby (talkcontribs) 22:16, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
No actually I have "voted" on two totally different suggestions for this story. get your facts straight!--BabbaQ (talk) 22:31, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
And this is not even a vote, its a forum to express opinions on which articles to put on ITN. That it is in a oppose, support style can be misleading.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:33, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Considering all the previous "stories" you've proposed here, it may suit you well to read up on what is newsworthy. StrPby (talk) 00:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I havent put this "story" up for ITN that was someone else. And you need to get your facts straight before accusing people of something they havent done. peace.--BabbaQ (talk) 10:27, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I oppose the idea of putting Mr Universe up. That doesn't have nearly the notability of Miss World.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:07, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose per Courcelles. I would support this only when the Futurama version of Miss Universe will be announced. Nergaal (talk) 04:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose on a who really cares basis. I know someone who won Miss Teen Kansas and went on to compete at Miss Teen USA, and that wasn't even mentioned in the local newspaper. If a girl winning Miss Teen Kansas doesn't make the local paper, why should the winner of this competition be posted here? (At least, that's the thought process in my head attm). But, I have to agree with Nergaal here, I would totally support that version of Miss Universe. =) Ks0stm (TCG) 06:11, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Luckily they do not have in-depth analysis shows of everybody from top to bottom, unlike the football team composition YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. Agree with Courcelles. This kind of thing is not news; it's like Entertainment Tonight. Nobody cares. Nightw 09:35, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Hang on, even if the viewing figures above are heavily exaggerated, certainly it's not correct to say 'nobody cares'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

October 29

Pressure Flaking in 75,000 years ago!

Archeologists in South Africa's Blombos Cave discover evidence of early humans using Pressure flaking to make Stone tools in 73,000 BCE more than 55,000 years earlier than previously believed.

Its been the talk of the department all morning! Evidence we were making stone tools not 20,000 years ago but 75,000! [12] The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:04, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Support. Can you suggest which article [should be]/[has been] updated? Physchim62 (talk) 13:42, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
I do it myself but the article is behind a Paywall and I Am attending a Conference this weekend. Blombos Cave would probably the most important as its the where the discovery was made. Stone tools would be secondary but i think when i looked at it ealier it did not mention dates of origins for the first tools. Pressure flaking is more about the technique I dont think it had dates either. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
The original article is here, so this meets our normal publication rules. Physchim62 (talk) 00:38, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Major historical news. Moves the beginning of the Stone Age at least 50,000 years back. That's notable in my book.--WaltCip (talk) 14:38, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Definitely notable, as per the aforementioned changes to our knowledge of the Stone Age. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 01:41, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
I support the item as it has been presented here but can we have a non-paywall source that details the significance other than the Fox News one?--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
No comment on nom, but here's a source: [13]. C628 (talk) 03:26, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Now we need a decent article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Another source--from the same site linked by Physchim above but this one isn't paywalled for me.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:55, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support (once article updated). Johnsemlak's source is OK for me (no paywall), C628's is OK as well. Blombos Cave seems like the likely candidate for bolding; it has been updated but not (as far as I can see) with stone tools/pressure flaking info. Disclaimer: I Am Not An Anthropologist/Archaeologist - smarter folk than what I am may be better equipped to comment on article updates. TFOWR 08:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support when the update is there. The discovery was published in a respected journal so it meets my criteria. --Tone 11:43, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, significant event in our understanding of the Stone Age and our predecessors. I also added stuff to Blombos Cave, but not to anything else. I will make the same disclaimer as TFOWR--I've very little knowledge about this, so if I've made a mistake in my writing, please do correct it. C628 (talk) 17:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Eruptions of Klyuchevskaya Sopka and Shiveluch

-A new eruption. Now in Russia. [14] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 07:10, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

On this one, at this time, I think I'll have to weakly oppose. While it is a significant eruption, at this point, there do not appear to be any deaths or massive amounts of damage from the eruptions (based on the source provided), so it doesn't really qualify as a "major natural disaster" in my opinion. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:11, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

From KVERT: Klyuchevskaya Spoka Shiveluch (talk) 19:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can see, Klyuchevskaya Sopka hasn't erupted yet, but an aviation advisory has been issued. I'd suggest we hold off on Klyuchevskaya Sopka until it erupts again (it erupted earlier this year). Both articles need to be updated. TFOWR 09:02, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Let's wait. --Tone 11:43, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 cargo plane bomb plot

I'd like to suggest 2010 cargo plane bomb plot for nomination. It is a major news item (top story on BBC news) and I recently finished creating the article. The headline could talk about the attempted bombing of the cargo planes, or the arrest of the Yemeni medical student, whichever you guys think would be more relevant to our readers. Let me know what you think. – Novem Lingvae (talk) 04:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I checked Wikipedias in other languages, and it is currently the top story on the Dutch Wikipedia. I have also added inline citations to the article. – Novem Lingvae (talk) 09:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. I think the discovery of a bombs on planes headed for the UK/US seems to be to be noteworthy to me.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Notable international story.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 17:06, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Support big int'l story. DC TC 17:08, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose we have more than enough terrorism on ITN as it is, just with posting the successful attacks, without posting failed events that might not even have been attacks in the first place. In addition, it's far from clear what sort of "added value" Wikipedia can provide to this story: reposting general speculation about motives etc, is still just speculation. Physchim62 (talk) 17:52, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The article is really coming along. We're up to 19 sources now and a number of different editors have collaborated on the article's development. I would suggest that we make a decision soon, while the contents of the article is still considered a current event. – Novem Lingvae (talk) 03:42, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
I think this entry is too far down the queue and maybe not even getting looked at now. It certainly continues to be a top news item. --Johnsemlak (talk) 15:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

October 28

Death of Jonathan Motzfeldt

Found at recent deaths. First and third Prime Minister of Greenland. Rather short at the moment. --candlewicke 00:55, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose as not a sufficiently significant death for ITN. The current state of his article is a good indication that his life wasn't so grounbreakingly significant as to warrant the posting of his death at old age.--Mkativerata (talk) 01:05, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose death of former head of government of non-independent territory. Strange Passerby (talkcontribs) 10:45, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Weak support Motzfeldt was the first Prime Minister of Groenland, so he must have been some kind of important there. See also n:First Prime Minister of Greenland Jonathan Motzfeldt dies at age 72 Diego Grez (talk) 14:14, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Fastest supercomputer in the world

China produced the fastest supercomputer in the world. Tianhe-1A at 2.5 petaflops surpasses previous number 1 XT5 Jaguar at 1.7 petaflops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The article Tianhe-I will need updating, as it currently has one unreferenced claim to the new record. --Stephen 23:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Support clearly a notable achievement for the Chinese - I presume its the first #1 supercomputer outside the US for a long while - maybe since the Manchester Mark 1. I've added a reference for the speed too. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:27, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Suggested blurb - The Chinese Tianhe-1A becomes the world's fastest supercomputer. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Good blurb, except that TOP500 (and by inference Cray XT5) hasn't been updated. --Stephen 23:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Support haha, China is taking over the world. Last time non-US held the record were the Japanese in 2002; USSR in 1984, and UK in the 50's. Nergaal (talk) 23:42, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, very notable achievement considering the 0.8 petaflop jump. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 00:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
We'll likely see a 18 petaflops jump in 2011/12 with the IBM Sequoia. JFYI. –bender235 (talk) 11:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, major occurance given how long its been since a non-US machine held the title. C628 (talk) 00:40, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Posting - timer's red, looks a decent article.  f o x  01:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Shit, disregard. I don't have time to update TOP500. Support when that happens, though  f o x  01:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
The table's not been changed, but theres a line above it that says "As of October 28, 2010, the Chinese "Tianhe-IA" boasts the worlds fastest speed at 2.507 petaflops" and the timeline's been updated. Not sure if that's enough, but I'd oppose messing with the table, since it reflects what the complete list is currently as published; it'll get changed when the next one comes out in November. C628 (talk) 01:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Post-post Support. Important advance in computer technology, though not as advanced as our brain ;) . ~AH1(TCU) 01:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually posted, thanks for the updates. --Stephen 02:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Remove this from the ITN section. As of today, this is pure WP:SPECULATION. We do not know for sure what supercomputer is the fastest until the TOP 500 November list is released. —bender235 (talk) 11:44, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Read the BBC News article, particularly the part where Jack Dongarra, one of the list compilers, confirms this will lead it.  f o x  12:30, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
That does not matter. Until the TOP500 list is out, we do not know whether Tianhe is the fastest, and therefore do not list it as a fact in ITN. Just like we do not report "Candidate XY will win the election", even if it was based on a 90% poll. —bender235 (talk) 12:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
If a faster computer comes along, that too will appear on ITN, and as a more recent entry. Seems fair enough to me.--WaltCip (talk) 14:39, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
but this isnt an election. the supercomputer power cant just go down in november because CPU's didnt get enough votes in the TOP500... lol. right now its the fastest super computer and i believe thats a confirmed fact. -- Ashish-g55 14:42, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
No, but there is a (very slight) chance that some other supercomputer reports a higher Rmax until the November TOP500 list is out. There are at least two supercomputers that are scheduled to reach 10+ petaFLOPS in 2011 (SGI's Pleiades, and IBM Sequoia). —bender235 (talk) 15:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
I posted this on WP:ERRORS too; I wasn't sure where it fit better. "The TOP500 article that's linked lists Tianhe-I as 7th place. While it will be the fastest supercomputer next time they update their list, it isn't currently. Maybe the blurb isn't incorrect, then, but linking the TOP500 article, which disagrees with the blurb, is certainly bad form." Makeemlighter (talk) 05:02, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Haitian cholera outbreak

Support as per Nergaal; article needs improvement.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The article is very much bare bones. Somebody will need to spend some time on it before it's in a state that can be posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Support pending article improvements and update. It looks like a developing tropical disturbance may be headed for Haiti. ~AH1(TCU) 01:03, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

October 27

Court orders Limewire to shut down

A U.S. court has ordered file-sharing site Limewire to shut down immediately. Coverage at NYT, BBC. Grsz11 15:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Sharing music is illegal? Who knew? MickMacNee (talk) 17:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose its has significant repercussions on two levels. One is the Legal angle where this a rather odd intepretation of DMCA for the judge to make and that will have legal repurcussions down the road for many websites. Secondly if you notice 4Chan and the hacker culture are going nuts with several DDOS attacks in the last 24 hours on a dozen music industry sites. But my main reason to oppose its this case its not in its climax and still has conplexities to sort out that would probably be better for ITN than lime wire shutting down. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. So get FrostWire. Or RapidShare. Or any of the other hundreds of downloader programs. Nightw 18:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. MickMacNee's rationale is not valid here. Limewire was the most-used P2P program on the internet, boasting over 50 million members who downloaded copyrighted music. The RIAA will be seeking lots of compensation in a court battle scheduled for January 2011. It's getting buzz from the BBC, Reuters, AP, and NYT (though Lime Wire LLC is based in New York, so NYT is a given, but nonetheless). For those reasons, I support. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, as Night w says there are lots of providers of this service and Limewire having to shut down is not that big a deal. meshach (talk) 00:24, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Not considered illegal outside the US, and proves that the Feds will do anything to knock down a virtual international door.
Support. Has global implications and coverage. My76Strat 19:17, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Néstor Kirchner dies

Obvious support, as sitting SecGen of UNASUR, if not former President and current President-consort of Argentina. Courcelles 14:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Relatively young, and sitting leader. Grsz11 14:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support He was not only the president-consort of Argentina, he had a very active role as a senator and on the Peronist Party, and almost more influence than the president. Fixman (talk!) 14:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per courcelles--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Definite strong support, as he was sitting head of major multinational organisation and former head of state. StrPby (talk) 15:11, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Per the Barbados addition, "The Secretary General of UNASUR, and former President of Argentina, Néstor Kirchner dies in office."(Lihaas (talk) 15:26, 27 October 2010 (UTC));
Still support the original version. It is evident he was in office. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 15:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
So? --IANVS (talk) 16:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
The fact that the update is one sentence long and there is an orange tag on the article. Courcelles 16:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
It is impossible to add more news for now. Later, during the day there will be condolencies, ceremonies, etc. So it would be updated during the day. I don't know which tag are you referring to, nor what does it means. The news is important nevertheless, be it a line or two. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 16:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Additions. New section "Death, Response" started. Please, do consider posting the article. Thanks, --IANVS (talk) 17:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support the original mention, not the second one. "In office" may be misleading, and there have been already cases of foreign newspapers that reported Kirchner incorrectly as the current President of Argentina (this whole thing of a president taking orders from her husband nearly as if he was still president, has definitely very few antecedents, if any, out of monarchic governments of some centuries ago). He's "in office" as deputee and UNASUR secretary, but why confuse an already confusing thing. MBelgrano (talk) 16:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Well many leaders can be and have been greatly influenced by their spouses, Support anyway YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 23:36, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Support --Diego Grez (talk) 16:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment Images File:ArgentinaNestorKirchner01.jpeg, File:Nestor-Kirchner.jpg or File:Néstor Kirchner-ESMA-Buenos Aires-24 de marzo de 2004.jpg may be used as images for the section of the main page. The Commons category has plenty of images, but those ones are close shots of his face, without distracting elements (such as other people) and may be better options for there, as they may be clear even at a smaller resolution an--IANVS (talk) 18:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)d wouldn't need explaining captions. MBelgrano (talk) 17:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note Néstor Kirchner#Death needs tidying, copy editing and possibly expanding. Twenty minute job at most if anybody's up for it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, what about now. It still has to be improved, but I think this is now ready for posting. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 18:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Article improved. Please, do post. Thanks, --IANVS (talk) 19:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Could you trim the reactions down to the most important and most relevant and convert them into something resembling prose rather than an indiscriminate list of quotations. Thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I've already selected the most important woutes as of now, I copied them, translated them, and sourced them. This is an ongoing event, so it would be impossible to give a definitive format by now. Most current events with multiple reactions do work like this in Wikipedia. This is not a reason for not posting. Moreover, posting will lead a lot of editors to improve the job. --IANVS (talk) 19:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support notable figure, unexpected death. Nergaal (talk) 19:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Help: I request help to edit the reactions section according to standards, as noted above by an admin. I'm off after 7hs work. Bye, --IANVS (talk) 20:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Leave them to me. I will deal with them myself MBelgrano (talk) 21:04, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
This can be helpful: BBC Op-ed Salut. And thanks, MBelgrano. --IANVS (talk) 21:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Néstor Kirchner, former President of Argentina and first Secretary General of UNASUR, dies in El Calafate, Argentina, aged 60.
Even if not head of UNASUR, he is notable as a former head of state. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 21:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Why not just post it, FFS? Overwhelming support, article in acceptable shape; or are we going to spend our time naval-gazing like the timewasters on the LHS of the Main Page? Physchim62 (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support immediate posting. Further adjustments can be made later and a new article can be opened if the section grows large enough. The article as it stands is more than acceptable, in my opinion. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 21:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support posting as per above.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Death of Saqr bin Mohammad al-Qassimi

-was the Emir of Ras al-Khaimah, one of the United Arab Emirates, from 1948 to 2010. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 12:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Support "the world’s longest serving monarch" [15] Definitely an ITN candidate The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support; world's longest-serving very long-serving monarch, and, since he was emir of the kingdom for 24 years before it joined the UAE, that does indeed make him a very long serving head of a (former) independent state as well. --Golbez (talk) 13:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. Grsz11 14:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per Golbez--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  •   Administrator note as of right now, the article still says "As of July 2010, Sheikh Saqr is reported to be dying.", so we're obviously going to need an update before this can be posted. Courcelles 14:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. The King is Dead! Long Live the King! I should correct one inaccuracy made here: he was not the world's longest-reigning monarch (Rama IX, who ascended 2 years before, is most commonly cited as holding that honour, although that is technically incorrect also). We should also mention his official successor, Saud bin Saqr al Qasimi, as recognised by the federal government. Nightw 15:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
So noted. --Golbez (talk) 17:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. He was the 'King' of 260,000 people. Stop kissing ass, this death is completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things. MickMacNee (talk) 17:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Whose ass exactly are we kissing? --Golbez (talk) 17:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support posting, we don't have Necrophilia to love kissing death people. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 17:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Don't you know that Wikipedia desperately needs Arabian oil to function? It's one of the five pillars... Nightw 17:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Well if you're talking about the electric power needed to function then the five pillars should be: Oil, Coal, Natural Gas, Hydrodynamic and Nuclear :) Cwill151 (talk) 18:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey! What about wind power? Mjroots (talk) 09:17, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose he was a sub-national monarch and only ruled over a tiny number of people. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
He was also one of the founders of the UAE, and pretty much shaped the country into what it is today. He turned his people from poor fishermen into wealthy businessmen. He's a hero in the Arab world. Not to mention that he has served one of the longest terms in a constitutional office in modern history. His death is also getting international media coverage, and many foreign leaders have sent their condolences. Nightw 18:31, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
In which case why isn't he in the list? I accept that the list is incomplete, but there are a decent number of Middle Eastern Politicians on the list. Additionally he's not the leader of the two most important Emirates - Dubai or Abu Dhabi. Besides its not exactly hard to make your country rich when its tiny and has huge amounts of oil. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Probably because that's a poorly-made list that most editors don't know about. I see Big Abdul isn't on it either. Neither are Gyanendra, Simeon, Zardari, Thaksin, Bartholomew, or Hassanal, or Mohammed Omar. But don't worry, Adam Sandler and Jessica Simpson got in. Damn! If only they'd had some girls with them. Nightw 19:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, Ras al-Khaimah doesn't have any oil. Do you know anything about the subject you're commenting on? Nightw 19:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
If it has no oil at all, how come there is no VAT, Income, corporate or wealth taxes? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Erasedhead. Nergaal (talk) 18:25, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, per Golbez's note. I think the ITN is way too strict on its inclusion standards. When you have stricter standards than the New York Times, I think it's being taken too seriously. It wouldn't hurt to have stories more current on the front page. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Support per Night w and because 1948 until 2010 is surely long enough? Events are also being cancelled. 40 days of mourning, the disruption of normal radio programming and a possible "fight over succession" as well. --candlewicke 23:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose. This guy was a leader of a non-country that even now has a population less than that of Laval, Quebec (a Montreal suburb). Compare him to Kenny Guinn, a recent governor of Nevada, an Anglosphere state with 10 times the population of the emirate who was in power only a few years ago and died in July. If I were to propose Guinn's death for ITN, I'd be shouted down like an ACLU member at a Bible Belt city council meeting. Not that I would, because only the extraordinarily notable should have their deaths on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Strong support. I don't think it's up to editors to subjectively determine whether an individual is notable or not. In Wikipedia, we generally use external reliable sources to determine notability. Sheikh Saqr's death has been reported by, among others, The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, Reuters, CNN, BBC News, The Wall Street Journal and The Financial Times. Not only was he the second longest-reigning monarch in the world at the time of his death, but it also seems from this list that he is one of the longest-reigning Muslim monarchs in history (although I have yet to find a reliable source stating this). With regards to the above comments about Ras al-Khaimah's tiny population, it should be noted that it is—according to The Daily Telegraph—a "Gulf emirate whose stability is vital to Western interests" and "a strategic western ally that sits on the Straits of Hormuz". Sheikh Saqr's death has precipitated a succession crisis since his newly enthroned son is accused by his brother of having turned the emirate into a major transit point for goods smuggled into Iran. This means that Saqr's death could have serious geopolitical implications. --BomBom (talk) 00:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose Former monarch of a small statelet. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Yet another <insert Arabic name here> death? I say no, not all of the deaths are notable. Diego Grez (talk) 01:40, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
support its notable due to the length of monarchy. 62 years is a long time even for a small country. -- Ashish-g55 01:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
He didn't even rule over small country for 62 years. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:36, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose--Sub national leader of a small area. The article isn't really extensive.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
It's not his position that makes him notable. It's his legacy, and the impact his death will have on the region. Nightw 17:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
That sounds like OR. Nergaal (talk) 19:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
That's just because you haven't bothered to read any of the articles cited. Nightw 18:38, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Mwalcoff. Also, that's one of the best metaphors I've heard in a while. DC TC 20:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Condolences from Lebanon, Algeria, Pakistan, Turkey, Kuwait, Georgia, Iraq... --candlewicke 00:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

FV Athena

Almost 100 crew are rescued from the burning factory ship Athena. Mjroots (talk) 11:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Barely even news, let alone an internationally significant event. MickMacNee (talk) 17:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Newly discovered primate species announced

Scientists announce the discovery of the Myanmar Snub-nosed Monkey (Rhinopithecus strykeri) in north-eastern Myanmar

Published in peer reviewed magazine. Got to be more important than discovery of dinosaurs, that we seem to put forward almost automatically. Article very new (I've added some basic intro hurredly to have something for those reading the proposal, but refs and prose should be included and improved before the blurb goes up). Kevin McE (talk) 08:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. (though, aren't we getting unusually many Myanmar-related stories recently? ;-)) --Tone 08:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I think they are far enough inland to be safe from the cyclone. As far as I have read, the monkeys' opinion of the new flag remains unsolicited. Kevin McE (talk) 09:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support I am reviewing the journal article now, its definitely unusual for a old world monkey to be discovered these days.The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, a new species of monkey is indeed extremely rare... Pretty silly name though. Nightw 15:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. What an ugly bastard. It looks like the average Wikipedian I would have thought. MickMacNee (talk) 17:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support it is really rare that a such a close living relative to sapiens is discovered. Nergaal (talk) 18:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

French Senate Approves Final Draft of Pension Reform Bill

The French Senate approves the Pension Reform Bill amid massive protests. [16] meshach (talk) 01:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Support if this is the final stage. --candlewicke 01:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
support per nom. long overdue The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The final parliamentary stage is this afternoon (European time) when the National Assembly votes the final version of the bill. Physchim62 (talk) 06:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Domestic news. Zero international significance. MickMacNee (talk) 17:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Only superficially is it not of Intenrational significance. France is Major World power, it internal politics effect the world way more than most countries. This has been the subject of near continuous riots over this for a week and will likely strongly effect the next election cycle thus the world politics. The protest over this bill have shut down the economy in france which effect the global economy. The opposition for to this bill makes the tea parties reaction to the health care bill look extremely tame and insignificant. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
France is a Major World Power? Sorry, I have to log off now, I'm about to have a five hour laughing fit. MickMacNee (talk)
Financially it is World power being number 5 in World wide GPD, and militarily as well. Though their military is not as dickish Bold as the United States and the Brits. It is a world power Stereotypes aside The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Quit being ignorant. Support; the riots this has caused are of worldwide interest. --PlasmaTwa2 18:31, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. Posting something on this is long overdue. Nightw 18:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. The linked article says very little about the passage of the bill, and the protest section appears to not have been updated significantly in a week. Nergaal (talk) 19:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Aren't we supposed to wait until Sarkozy signs it? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:38, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
I think it's important that the blurb mention that the minimum retirement age is going from 60 to 62. They'll now have to wait until age 67 (up from 65) to retire with a full government pension. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:48, 29 October 2010 (UTC)


See October 2010 North American storm complex. (talk) 15:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

No EF3+, no deaths, no reported damages as of yet; I'm not confident that article would survive AFD, let alone ITN. --Golbez (talk) 18:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Looks more like a Cold Front that happens each year at about this time... I am not sure we have a "Storm Complex" The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Most massive neutron star yet discovered

Astronomers discovered a neutron star roughly 20% more massive than the most massive previously known neutron star. The discovery puts much stronger limits on the possible composition of neutron stars. James McBride (talk) 18:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

October 26

Mount Merapi erupts

  • An active (and feared) volcano erupts in Java, Indonesia, killing at least 18 people. Not as many casualties as the earthquake, but still significant. We may get two Indonesia stories unless we post a combination blurb. ~AH1(TCU) 21:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, volcanoes are standard ITN stories. --Tone 21:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Support:, but it is a good idea to have both stories in the same blurb, as there are "only" 18 victims of the eruption so far. Crnorizec (talk) 22:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Support but wait Lets get some more information in on this... do we have an article yet? The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
  Done Split 2010 eruption of Mount Merapi from Mount Merapi. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Any help would be nice I have no idea how to do a volcanic event article The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per Tone--Wikireader41 (talk) 00:04, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per Wikireader41. --candlewicke 01:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Are the tsunami and the eruption linked? Nergaal (talk) 02:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support as a merge with the tsunami entry. News agencies seem to post them together. Nergaal (talk) 02:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment putting them together will automatically suggest they are linked. As an encyclopedia we really should not do that unless they are actually linked (i dont see evidence in article atleast) even if the media is. -- Ashish-g55 03:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, but please do not post this, since the article is in bad shape. In meanwhile we could make a blurb, merging this with the earthquake report.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Tariq Aziz sentenced to death

Aziz was the public face and defacto deputy leader of Saddam's evil regime. He notably escaped the death sentence in two earlier trials, but not now apparently. MickMacNee (talk) 17:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose for now The Vatican is making enough of a Squawk over his poor health... he may not be executed. His attorney will probably seek an appeal which is an option. Lets wait till he is actually executed for us to include in ITN The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Support per the above, but no one else still alive of the deck of 55 cards. Passing of sentence, not enactment or exhaustion of appeal process, is our usual trigger for posting outcome of trials. Kevin McE (talk) 18:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now. good chance he wont be executed.(WP)--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Note According to Al Jezeera it was his actions in that the charges "are related to the persecution of Shia Muslim parties in the 1980s." The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Support. It's not often someone who was so famous before being arrested gets sentenced to death. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as it is a sentencing and the act has not been carried out, at which point it would surely be posted. --candlewicke 01:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, until the deed is done (God forbid). Nightw 15:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Hmmm. Who knew that ITN editors were such a bunch of bloodthirsty bastards? The nomination was the sentencing of course, which is normally enough. MickMacNee (talk) 16:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Right, and then if he isn't executed, that would have been a mistake to post it wouldn't it? Nightw 16:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
What kind of nonsense is that? 'If he doesn't get killed, then he must not have been sentenced to death?' What a load of utter bollocks. MickMacNee (talk)
I'm not sure where you're quoting from. Are you gonna be okay? Nightw 18:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Death of Paul the Octopus

- The common octopus dies. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose - While this octopus had a short lived bit of fame, interest in his exploits died around the end of the World Cup. Additionally at two years and nine months of age, he was well past the expected lifespan for his species. --Allen3 talk 11:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose: nore notable than most octopodes, I agree, but a million miles short of ITNworthy. Daft publicity stunt during silly season, if such a thing had been publicised during pre-Wikipedia tournaments I doubt that an article would ever have been made. Kevin McE (talk) 11:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose as per above. Just a publicity stunt.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. More notable than most octopuses, but he wasn't exactly Lonesome George, was he? . Nightw 12:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
But his death is getting worldwide coverage: check out these Spanish newspapers [17] [18]... Oh, well, let's get serious. Oppose, and I'm off out for octopus tapas (with venison, if possible)! Physchim62 (talk) 12:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I love octopus tapas too! I've never tried it with venison though. (I studied in Barcelona for a short while) --BorgQueen (talk) 12:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Venison isn't common on Spanish menus, and they didn't have in the tapas bar that's three (vertical) metres from where I edit WP. However, their pulpo a la gallega was excellent as always (didn't dare ask for it a la alemana)! Physchim62 (talk) 12:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Why not combine a blurb for Paul and the Emperor of Exmoor? Only kidding, so oppose. Grsz11 14:56, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - oddly the nomination itself mirrors my reasoning  f o x  16:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

October 2010 Sumatra Earthquake

- 1 dead, 160 missing, 150 houses destroyed. (Reuters) (Today's Zaman) (Herald Sun)- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

- Update - 23 deaths - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 11:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support, major natural disaster with significant death toll. StrPby (talk) 11:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
It's the third largest earthquake in 2010 on the Richter Scale.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
according to BBC there was a tsunami and over 100 dead... i dont think there will be any objections to this one. support -- Ashish-g55 13:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
support major disaster--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak support good size quake but death toll/missing persons is pretty unimpressive The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
hmm...108 people have been killed and 502 are still missing is unimpressive? -- Ashish-g55 14:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
support Death toll significantly higher than initial reportsThe Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Posted. --Tone 14:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Post-post Support, of course.  f o x  16:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Another support due to the extreme nature of the disaster. --candlewicke 01:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

End of the original walkman

It is not completely dead. The article says sales are only being stopped in Japan, not other countries.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't read the article the same way, but maybe I am wrong. [20] Hektor (talk) 07:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
The BBC were implying yesterday it was worldwide. So Support as a big tech story - and we don't post many of those. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Cited article says "Sony announced that Chinese-made Walkman cassette players will still be exported to North American, European, and Asian markets", so headline claim seems overstated. Kevin McE (talk) 09:58, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong suport this was so popular once; it wasn the first mobile entertainment device if I am not wrong. Nergaal (talk) 16:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. There are lots of once popular products that are discontinued all the time. Not enough global impact. meshach (talk) 17:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
'Oppose So yes Sony has stopped making them, but a subsidiary or similar arrangement will continue thier production and Will contiue providing us with Tape players under the Sony logoThe Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Emperor of Exmoor

Oppose local story of no international interest. StrPby (talk) 01:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I'm sure most of Britain could care less, let alone any of the rest of us. Great for DYK though. Grsz11 01:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
WP:ENGVAR note: the UK English phrase is "couldn't care less" Kevin McE (talk) 09:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The article is nowhere near up to scratch. Probably low on significance, though I did find it interesting.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Erm. Excuse me...I am trying hard not to rant... The largest living animal in Britain has just been killed; shot. It's all over the front page of all the major British newspapers. The article is being improved as we speak. This is not local interest, nor is it of 'low significance'. Please reconsider.  Chzz  ►  02:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but nobody can confirm this is in fact the largest. Grsz11 03:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support for both ITN and or DYK - the article has improved since 01:48, and the killing has been reported in The Toronto Star and Huffington Post(which only means other U.S. media will also cover), and in Bangkok, Thailand. --Lexein (talk) 02:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
  • If an article appears as the main article, i.e. bolded, in ITN, it becomes ineligible for DYK. StrPby (talk) 03:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you. Stricken. --Lexein (talk) 03:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Sad as it is, it's a single wild animal, and it appears to have been shot legally. There's no major significance here, and UK media coverage does not establish sufficient importance for ITN. This is one of those trivia-type stories that generates a lot of coverage without actually meaning anything. Definitely take it to WP:DYK though. Modest Genius talk 02:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
It has already generated massive media coverage, since the story broke a few hours ago. It is not trivia. There are complex questions regarding hunting licence, recent legislation, and so forth. It has significant international coverage already. It's significant internationally for hunting, species preservation, conservation, gun laws, animal sanctuary, and so forth. I do not understand how you can consider the death of the largest animal in Britain to be of "no major significance". I wish I could show you a photograph of a British news-stand right now. In a few hours, most Britains will be looking at a picture of the animal, on the front-page of their newspaper, over breakfast. It is in BBC headline news on terrestrial televison.  Chzz  ►  03:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't think you're understanding the objections. Balloon boy was all over the US news, but it would never be featured here, for its far too trivial and insignificant, no matter how much the media wants to fuss over it. Grsz11 04:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Do you mean this October 15 ITN ("A worldwide media circus...") and [this October 17 ITN ("The sheriff in Fort Collins, ...") I can't seem to find the discussion of those entries. A little help? I do understand the need to select by some sort of significance, but I do not see a clearly delineated, publicly discussed and reached-by-consensus sieve process to be applied uniformly (#papers, #people affected, #countries - what are the criteria?). Where is that? The phrase "In the News" seems to imply that broad coverage should help. To my talk page ... away! --Lexein (talk) 06:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
You are confusing Portal:Current events with Template:ITN. --Stephen 09:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Confused? No. Listing at Portal:Current events is a WP:ITN#Procedural requirement for ITN, but my links above are to ITN candidates. My questions remain --- please discuss on my talk page since the nominator has dropped (below). --Lexein (talk) 16:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Not exactly. The "requirement" is for a blurb, and, frankly, I'd cheerfully waive that if there was a blurb here. So long as there's support, an update, and a blurb I'll post a story. WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY, etc. TFOWR 16:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
And now that I've actually read the background... Stephen's quite correct: those listings are from P:CE, which are transcluded here at WP:ITN/C. The ITN candidates are below the P:CE listings. TFOWR 16:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for helping. IMO the source of transclusions should be visible. Example: "15 October 2009 (2009-10-15) (Thursday) (transcluded from P:CE)    edit    history    watch". As an aside, correct-but-unhelpful should not be how things are done. --Lexein (talk) 18:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose the article said it was a perfectly legal kill . If it had been poached maybe The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 04:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment - there's been no official declaration of legality, only the word "appears", and a statement by an non-independent bystander. I thought a legal kill had to be tagged or reported; there's been no evidence of the hunter claiming the kill. So even if it's legal, it's by no means settled. --Lexein (talk) 06:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Unfortunately Chzz is flogging a dead horse deer. --Stephen 04:31, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose fairly clearly tabloid fodder. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
An individual specimen of a wild animal, apparently legally killed, about which only one article prior to its death is cited on an article that did not exist until after it died; a local paper story picked up more than a week later by national media. Closer to AfD than ITN. Kevin McE (talk) 10:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Already dropped off the front pages of UK newspaper websites, no particular interest elsewhere that I can see. Newspapers rerun news agency stories, and news agencies prepare stories for them; that's all that's happened here. Physchim62 (talk) 13:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Withdrawn as a candidate by nominator Clearly I misunderstand what is meant by 'In The News', and my views on educational, informative and above-all encyclopaedic content are at odds with opinions above. I will merely note the fact that, since submission, this has been the #1 or #2 'most read' story on the BBC News website, I will refrain from any further comment, in accordance with WP:STICK and WP:FUCK. Thank you all for consideration and comments; I apologise for the time wasted for those who feel it inappropriate. Chzz  ►  15:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, it was a good read on page 3 of my daily newpaper today. Still, it's not often you see a good old fashioned STICKFUCK on Wikipedia, so kudos for that. MickMacNee (talk) 16:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

October 25

Death of Gregory Isaacs

Reggae star Gregory Isaacs has died at the age of 59 at his London home following a long illness. - [22] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 15:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I have to say I hadn't heard of him. I'm going to oppose for now on the basis that the story is buried rather un-prominently in the BBC Entertainment section.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I remember a couple of tracks, and I'm sorry to hear the news of the death of a relatively young man, but he is a long way down the hierarchy of modern singers. Kevin McE (talk) 17:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose A tragic event but not of enough major international impact from the death. meshach (talk) 00:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose as he does not appear to have had a major influence worldwide. Nergaal (talk) 04:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Cyclone Giri toll hits 50 mark

Cyclone Giri's death toll rose to 50 in Myanmar. Giri made landfall on 22 October 2010 and was stronger than Cyclone Nargis, which brought devastation to Myanmar coast in 2008. 150+ peple are still missing.Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how the strength comparison should affect anything. If anything, a stronger strom killing less people? I think it's a bit early, would support only when a more stable/final toll is announced. That death toll is going to be very changeable. StrPby (talk) 15:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
50 deaths is already pretty notable. Also 1000 homes destroyed, 5000 left homeless, and hundreds missing. Article is in decent shape. Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:19, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose unless the death toll goes close to 200. We post too many tropical cyclones. If 7 motorsport updates per year are too many, then having every tropical cyclone with 50 deaths is waaay too much. Nergaal (talk) 04:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, major disaster. Nightw 12:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. This is the strongest cyclone on record to hit Myanmar, and 70% of a major town of over 20,000 people was confirmed destroyed. At least 84 people were killed and the death toll is rising. Early reports stated that 100 fishermen were missing, and that was just in Bangladeshi waters. ~AH1(TCU) 21:50, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Support per AH1. --candlewicke 01:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

World Gymnastics Championships

Have finished. Major sport in many countries, particularly former/communist and strong anti-communist nations eg US, S Korea, Japan YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:19, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Not a major spectator sport, except during the Olympics. I recognize a lot of people like and/or participate in gymnastics, but we have to limit sports results to those that have the most interest. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Support if it is the highest level of gymnastics. Not really interested in gymnastics but can't think of any reason to leave it out completely, especially if it is followed in many countries. "Mitchell, Bouhail make gymnastics history" also sounds promising. --candlewicke 03:51, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Article--still needs a prose update. From where I'm sitting, Gymnastics is indeed a major sport in Russia, and several stars are household names. There's even a decent Russian Wikipedia article on it. However, I think in Russia the 2010 World Rhythmic Gymnastics Championships are bigger, and also going on right now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Rythmic Gymnastic championships finished on 26 September: not sure where that came from. Same editor got confused between the two different styles of Gymnastics last year, and ended up supporting this one then. Kevin McE (talk) 08:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, these different gymnastics types seem to be my bane. When I checked Russian media sites I saw headlines for Russia winning gold in Rhythmic Gymnastics and I assumed it had been recent. It is a big deal here--get's a bit more press that Artistic Gymnastics (or 'Sport Gymnastics' as the Russians call it.)--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment It was nominated last year and wasn't posted. There wasn't much (any?) support and the article wasn't satisfactory.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:24, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
The Rhythmic Championships were a month ago... Courcelles 08:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Whoops. Got the dates mixed up.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Support Top level, genuinely international sport. Kevin McE (talk) 08:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I broadly support this event as per Kevin McE and YellowMonkey but recent precedent at ITN seems to not favor this kind of item. I'd point to the 2010 FIBA World Championship for Women and the 2010 FIVB Men's World Championship as similar examples--top competitions of sports with broad world-wide participation but limited media interest. Sporting events with less broad participation but strong media interest get more support here (I'm not necessarily criticizing that, though I would favor posting all the examples above). The current state of the article is also a prohibition, though fixable. In this case, it might be notable that the most prestigious gymnastics competition is really the Olympics.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:51, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Support as the sport has a fanbase even in the US. Proposed blurb: Nergaal (talk) 04:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

October 24

Malmö shootings

A serial shooter in Malmö, Sweden, seems to be targeting people with dark skin. Only one fatality yet, but the special nature of the crimes makes it quite newsworthy. Lampman (talk) 15:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

  • oppose As disgusting as we may all find hate crimes, I am not convinced its ITN Material any more than most ethnic violence is. especially with only one person dying. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • support A extremely high profile case in Scandinavia. Has reached international headlines.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:08, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
And also that "only one person dead" has been the subject of a number of episodes of the Swedish crime show Efterlyst and numerous news stories. Also the case has becomed very notable because that the shooter only shoots people with dark skinn like John Ausonius in the early 1990s.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I might support the capture of the individual depending the merits of the case at the time of capture but right now no. Merely reporting possible multi-day shooting spree in progress does not merit ITN recognition yet. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
OK but police has already established that it is the same man who shot the deadly shot against the dead Swedish girl and atleast five other of the shootings so.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:36, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Malmo Shootings gets abot 70 hits on Google News. I've gotta conclude that's pretty low interest in this, at least outside Scandinavia. I also agree that one death in a crime is simply not ITN material normally.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:49, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose local story--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I wonder if we would have this "Local story" discussion and "only one death" discussion had this been an American case or British.. I doubt it. But anyway.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:55, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
When I just searched on Google the words Malmö shooting I recieved 71 600 individual hits.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
BabbaQ, I'm quite certain that such a case would receive substantial opposition at ITN if the victim were American or British. Certainly, shootings are commonplace in the US. While less so in the UK, there's still over 600 homocides per year. We can't post them all at ITN. Yes, this incident may have unique circumstances but it doesn't have enough interest to merit ITN inclusion IMO.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:03, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, the Unabomber took exactly three lives, and that was one of the biggest news stories throughout the 80s and 90s. Whether you oppose or support this entry, I would appreciate if commenters refrained from simplistic arguments presupposing that the notability of a crime story is a simple equation based only on the number of casualties. The world isn't that simple; there are more factors involved than that. Lampman (talk) 21:39, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
He also was "Bombing" places mind you. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, local story, one (unfortunate) death, not really any lasting impact. More pedantically, can you not use bullets to support/oppose?  f o x  21:13, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
That's a bad pun, please show some respect for the victims. Lampman (talk) 21:39, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Bad pun or not, it *was* in the 'please do not' section at the top of the page. I just noticed it had gone (without discussion), and restored it. Modest Genius talk 21:45, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
That was me: sorry if it was inappropriate but although it had been well observed in the previous format, it seemed redundant, and was largely ignored since the change in layout with a ToC and each proposal having its own level 4 (although it would be more logical for it to be level 3) heading. Bullet-points were still not suggested, but note how below it is the default assumption of editors, as per the example of comparable !polling of opinions like AfD pages. And the formatting of the "Sample candidate discussion" section above seems to have been abandoned in practice, so it seemed churlish for a rubric to insist on it. Kevin McE (talk) 22:18, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

October 23

Fran Crippen

It is not often that athletes die in an internationally recognized event. Nergaal (talk) 02:13, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Tentative support – not sure if we should really have two deaths on T:ITN, given the nomination of David Thompson's death below. Arguably a sitting head of government's more notable than an athlete, but given he's the defending Pan-American champion, definitely would merit inclusion. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 02:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 06:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unless the cause of death is notable. --PlasmaTwa2 07:07, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose he is sufficiently for the main page, and this isn't the Olympics. DC TC 07:09, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I can't find any mention of this on the BBC or BBC Sport.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:08, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Athletes dropping dead while competing is not that uncommon. Physchim62 (talk) 12:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Irony is not a factor in ITN considerations.... The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:23, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Physchim62. If this happened during an NFL, MLB or Premier League game, it would be a bigger news event. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:32, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment Mwalcoff, please leave your hobby horse out of this. (talk) 13:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Czech opposition wins mid-term elections

Would seem to me to be an important enough country (EU member, US ally) to include on ITN. Potential problems needing to be resolved include the merge tag on the two articles as well as updates to related articles like Senate of the Parliament of the Czech Republic. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 00:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. I'm familiar with the Czech Republic, and I can tell you no one cares about the Senate there. The House can override the Senate with an absolute majority (that is, a majority of all delegates rather than a majority of delegates voting). This is not like in the U.S., where the Senate is equal in power (and in some ways, more powerful) than the House. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:18, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
oppose to mid term elections of any state (even though we know that wont happen) -- Ashish-g55 01:28, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Yeah, then watch the US mid-term elections get dozens of supporters for ITN *rolls eyes*. When people say that Wikipedia is an American wiki, they aren't damn kidding. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 21:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Mariann Birkedal

Norways Mariann Birkedal became the first Norwegian delegate to place in Miss World for eight year when she won the Miss World Top Model fast track event at Miss World 2010 in China on October 23.

Im nominating this story because it has becomed a main story in Norwegian media, it has also reached international headlines on different websites. Also an historic factor involved.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:12, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. she can go on ITN when she discovers a cure for cancer or something like that. Physchim62 (talk) 20:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, no one have claimed that Mariann will ever discover the cure for cancer. But that doesnt change the fact that she can do great things in other areas in life. Like this one above.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:10, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Beauty pageants aren't ITN-worthy. She hasn't even won the main event. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:17, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I would only consider the winner of the whole thing. SpencerT♦C 00:55, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
LOL Nergaal (talk) 02:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
No chance, and I suggest BabbaQ reacquaints themselves with our importance criteria. Modest Genius talk 18:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Um, what importance criteria? WP:ITN isn't exactly clear. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Fair point. But this item certainly counts as 'trivial'. Modest Genius talk 18:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Bahraini parliamentary elections

The Bahraini parliamentary election, 2010 takes place today. I'm nominating this as is right by WP:ITN/R, and because it will probably get nominated anyway. But I think it should be noted that this is for the lower house, and that the upper house (and the Cabinet) are directly appointed by the King, so whether elections are significant here, I'll leave up for consideration. Nightw 14:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Apparently it doesn't finish until 30 Oct, and the article is a rather poor stub. Modest Genius talk 18:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Death of David Thompson

The incumbent Prime Minister of Barbados, David Thompson, has died. Google Nightw 14:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Support, death of sitting head of government is extremely notable. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 14:59, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The only importance is that he died in office. This man is not so notable. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 15:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
    • If you believe he's "not so notable", you could always try nominating the article for deletion. Pretty sure how that would turn out. Clearly notable. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 15:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Death of a sitting head of government. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:13, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - death of an incumbent head of state. Connormah (talk) 19:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - death of an incumbent head of state. Crnorizec (talk) 23:00, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Weak support. We should also mention that Freundel Stuart has been sworn in as his replacement. Physchim62 (talk) 23:08, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Note that we can (IMO should) post this as death + change in head of government. The change in HoG itself would have been worthy of nomination, even without the death. Physchim62 (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Same as the above. Leaders rarely die while sitting. --candlewicke 00:51, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
    I didn't know they kept stats on that. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
    You know, Wikipedia, the sum of human knowledge ;) Physchim62 (talk) 01:02, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment: Article as a whole needs more expansion before it can go up, IMO...the summary of Thompson's whole life is relatively short. SpencerT♦C 01:10, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support upon article expansion. These events like elections or HoG changes have become sensitive lately. Barbados has a population of 250,000, which I have to say makes it a fairly non-notable state. Still, general WP ITN policy is to report the death of a sitting head of state and the appointment of another. I suggest we keep the blurb as short as possible.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Suggested blurp: The incumbent Prime Minister of Barbados, David Thompson, has died. --Kslotte (talk) 12:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, aticle is good enough for publishing. --Kslotte (talk) 12:22, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I suggest "Barbados Prime Minister David Thompson dies in office and is succeeded by Freundel Stuart."--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:36, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. Article's not great, but it's just about sufficient imo. My connection is crap so I can't sort the image, but I'll gladly add it to the template if someone else uploads a local copy. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I have updated the image. It might benefit from cropping but I'll leave that to someone more able than me - Dumelow (talk) 15:09, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

IMF reform

The Ministers of Finance of G-20 agree to reform IMF and shift about 6% of the voting shares to major developing nations and countries with emerging markets. BBC GreyHood Talk 13:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Comment. Major event that reflects the growing share and significance of the developing nations and emerging markets in the world economy, in particular the BRIC countries (especially China). Such developments may have a huge impact on the future world politics. GreyHood Talk 13:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Support a significant shift and we don't do enough financial stories on ITN. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:40, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Support this is something that's been talked about for years, so significant that it is actually happening (even if 6% isn't much of a change). Physchim62 (talk) 19:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Support: this shift is a formal recognition (albeit small in %) of change of balance of world economies. However, the article does not cite any outcomes of the summit. Crnorizec (talk) 23:04, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
By the way - what article should be bold-linked? Whichever article is bold-linked will need to be updated and in good shape. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Conditional support. The 2010 G-20 Seoul summit should obviously be the one bolded, but the article itself is NOT updated. Nergaal (talk) 03:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
We should probably also mention the joint communique in which the members committed not to engage in a currency-devaluation war, even if it did not include Tim Geithner's proposal to limit trade surpluses and deficits. I think that's what most people were looking forward to out of the G-20 meeting. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:59, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment: The 2010 G-20 Seoul summit will take place in November. This was a preparation for the summit, in the rank of Ministers of Finance. It could be a separate article, or part of that article. Crnorizec (talk) 07:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I've changed the initially proposed wording, excluding the summit from it, and put IMF in bold. IMF article still needs update. GreyHood Talk 13:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Hm, it seems that there is an article on 2010 G-20 Seoul summit preparations. May be it could be inserted some way into the wording. GreyHood Talk 13:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Question: If the G20 finance ministers have agreed to change the IMF rules (note these are two separate bodies), when will they actually take affect? And is that a mere formality? Modest Genius talk 18:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
As far as I know, the Ministers of Finance and Heads of the Central Banks are usually appointed to control the IMF members' quotas (btw I've inserted the news into this section of the IMF article). The G20 finance ministers control the majority of quotas in the IMF and that's why all major decisions depend on the G20. When the reform actually will be implemented is unclear for me, perhaps during or just after the summit in November. And I'm not sure that the moment of the final implementation of the reform will make headlines, so better post it now or never. GreyHood Talk 20:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. If it is at the G20 summit in November, I'd be more inclined to post it then, on the general principle that we should report actual actions rather than announcements of intent (regardless of when the media reports on it). Modest Genius talk 20:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, the final effects of the reform may actually be seen in practice only when IMF will next time take some major decision that requires voting, something like giving a credit to a country that needs IMF support. I'm not sure that the date of any such decision-making meeting has been set already. Anyway, what is important here is not the time when these 6% will be formally and in practice shifted, but the fact that developed nations finally recognised that the role and significance of developing nations and emerging markets have risen during the ongoing world financial crisis, something that had been failed to be done in Pittsburg Summit last year when they started to talk about 5%, not 6% shift. And the recognition of this important fact has taken place on October 23, not later. GreyHood Talk 21:40, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I would be in favor of putting it now. We post world records in athletics when they are broken, not when they are ratified by IAAF. The decision is taken now, and the change will happen. The latter is a bureaucracy that nobody will really care then. Nergaal (talk) 22:04, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Support posting now, this is a significant shift and these stories aren't often posted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:14, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The proposed news item seems to be supported, the banner has turned red, and there are almost no any other candidates that are not widely opposed. GreyHood Talk 20:23, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted with a link to the summit prep article and a slight trim to compensate. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 00:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

October 22

Cyclone Giri

Category five Cyclone Giri makes landfall in Rakhine State, between Sittwe and Kyaukpyu. Total damages and death toll are unknown. Very rapid intensification occurred, from tropical storm to cat. 5 in under 20 hours. ~AH1(TCU) 18:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

  • If it is indeed cat 5 (not like shown in the article, cat 4), and some significant number of deaths occur, I would be ok. Otherwise oppose. Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Officially its a 135kt cat 4 (Super) Tropical Cyclone 1 or 5 kts of a C5 depending on your POV.Jason Rees (talk) 23:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
      • Oppose per Nergaal: not a Category 5, and no reports out of Burma yet. Support only if there is significant death or damage. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 01:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Cholera Outbreak in Haiti

In the wake of 2010 Haiti earthquake an outbreak of cholera is confirmed in refugee camps leaving 1500 sickened and 142 dead. WSJ Al JazeeraBBC. The world is watching and it aint pretty The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:15, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Support. This is likely the deadliest disaster in Haiti since the earthquake, and the first cholera outbreak in the country in a century. Article? ~AH1(TCU) 18:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
    • 2010 Haitian cholera outbreak currently redirects to the subsection of the Earth quake article called "October Cholera Outbreak." Since Haiti is third world condition information is only trickling out rather than overloading as it might if this had happened in the industrial world. it might be a day or two before we can spin it out into its own article but its big for sure The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
      • How big and when was the previous outbreak of cholera (in other parts of the world)? Is this outbreak somewhat the norm in the 3rd world?. Nergaal (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
      • I did expand that section, now four sentences. --Kslotte (talk) 23:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
        • Section has now been copy edited. --Kslotte (talk) 04:05, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Suggested blurp: An outbreak of cholera has occurred in the Artibonite region in Chile, killing at least 150 people and hospitalizing thousands more. --Kslotte (talk) 04:05, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Now as an aritcle on its own: Haitian cholera outbreak --Kslotte (talk) 12:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • New blurp suggestion: An outbreak of cholera has occurred in the rural Artibonite region of Haiti, killing at least 150 people and hospitalizing thousands more. --Kslotte (talk) 16:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
The article is still slim. Nergaal (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
i see 2 para with 6 refs. is there anything else stopping this from going up? i know its short article but we pass smaller updates. its a major world news atm -- Ashish-g55 15:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Support in principle, but I'm really not happy with such a short stub. We do indeed post shorter updates, but only when there's a substantial article to go with them. At the moment the article really doesn't say much. Modest Genius talk 20:23, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Support. The death toll is more than 250 now. --candlewicke 00:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Iraq War Logs

Iraq War Logs are released by WikiLeaks containing almost 391,832 United States Army field reports of the Iraq War. [23] and [24] are applicable sources. meshach (talk) 23:14, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Support, since it is "the biggest leak in the United States military history". --Kslotte (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support-I'd prefer the exact amount given by wikileaks as opposed to about 400,000.Smallman12q (talk) 01:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - among many other things, Iran's aid to the Iraqi militias is certainly an attention-grabber. Top of most news sites' list at the moment, let's get this up. Suggested blurb: Another 391,832 field reports from the Iraq War are released by WikiLeaks. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, substantial claims of war crimes, foreign involvement, previously unknown/unconfirmed stuff, what have you. On the other hand, the article is in less than ideal shape. Also, about the blurb above, I'm not aware of another release of logs from the Iraq War, only the Afghanistan War. C628 (talk) 01:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, agree with above, not to mention that we're overdue for an update. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 02:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, per above, plus it's being headlined by many news organisations only hours after it was released. Obviously notable for admission. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Suggested blurb: A collection of 391,832 classified field reports from the Iraq War are released by WikiLeaks, the biggest leak in military history of the United States. --Kslotte (talk) 03:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support when expanded.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:55, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong support - controversial topic. - Mar4d (talk) 05:06, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posting Is the article perfect? No. Is it better updated than most things we post? Yes, and more attention should help it grow faster. Courcelles 07:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

October 21

Russell Williams sentenced

  • This has been dominating the news in Canada this week. A colonel in the Canadian military (highest rank behind general) pleaded guilty on Monday to charges (murder, rape, burglary) related to being a serial homicidal sex maniac. Today, he was sentenced to two life sentences plus 102 years. I know we don't ordinarily put murders on ITN, but the fact that this guy was so high-ranking (he ran one of Canada's most-important military bases) has made this a major national story with some international coverage. According to the Montreal Gazette: "Williams has appeared in leading national newspapers or news websites in the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Australia, Russia, Italy, France, Spain, South Africa, Brazil, India, Mexico, and more. In both the New York Times and the London Daily Mirror, a full 1,100 words were devoted to the killer colonel's confession, while Italy's La Repubblica published a photo gallery of the pictures Williams took of himself wearing women's underwear and lingerie." ([25]) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:54, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Support this is on the front page of BBC right now. This is a MAJOR news story here in Canada; it is not everyday such a high ranking person does something like this and it has completely rocked the Canadian Forces and everyone else involved. --PlasmaTwa2 01:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Err, it's not on the BBC front page for me, it's hidden under World -> US & Canada. Remember the BBC customises its indexes based on IP geolocation. As for the story itself, I can't decide whether to oppose based on tabloid-ness and lack of general significance, or be swayed by the media attention. I oppose, having thought about it a bit. Modest Genius talk 01:34, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
For me, there are four other stories in a bigger font on the main page, and about a dozen articles are on a similar level font size as this guy YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 03:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose An individual crime with tabloid interest only. Not significant news at all. --Mkativerata (talk) 02:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
How is this only tabloid interest? This is without a doubt the biggest news story in Canada in years and he's been called one of the worst offenders in Canadian history. This isn't exactly the latest Paris Hilton news. Saying this is not significant at all shows a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to Canadian news. --PlasmaTwa2 02:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
oppose I am not convinced. If only we allowed fair use images on the main page. I would like to see how some on would react to those lingerie pix on there ;-) The Resident Anthropologist (talk)
  • Oppose A random criminal with no wide impact. It's not as though it caused a giant hullabaloo eg Vatican Child abuse coverups, or reports of a culture of bullying/corruption in the army or police. Just a "kinky burglar" says the article. A colonel is not as rare or powerful as people might think as there are lots of ranks of generals, eg the person doing the daily briefings for the US Amry during the Iraq invasion in 2003 was a brigadier general. YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 03:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment: Why do people write as if "tabloid interest" and "wide coverage" are somehow mutually incompatible. Anything that is featured in the tabloids thereby already has "wide coverage" in the biggest selling papers, and therefore will be acknowledged at least, even if the coverage is less prurient, on broadcast and internet media who do not wish to appear aloof. Importance, not coverage: the public interest, not what interests the public. And on those grounds, oppose. Kevin McE (talk) 06:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Flag of Burma

Historic event for the country of Burma/Myanmar.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:04, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose firstly the article on Myanmar is called Burma so you'll be exposing a Wiki politics issue (you're talking about the country changing its name from A to B, when the countries article is called C). Secondly because it doesn't seem like a particularly major change. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Do you call changing a countries name and flag "not a major change"?.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Also its no big secret or controversy surrounding the Burma/Myanmar issue...Its like with USA sometimes its called the US, USA or the United States or the United States of America.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
It's nowhere near similar. --Golbez (talk) 16:01, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
The new flag was just adopted. I say wait until the new Congress (elected on 7 November) opens, which will mark the new constitution and new flag. Grsz11 21:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't get it. Nothing changes in the internal politics. Nobody seems to understand the point of this change. The situation is the same. It almost sounds like NK threatening to do another test: whoring for international attention? Or doing this to try to give their population something to contemplate about. Unless there is a proven reason/motivation behind this with some actual implications, this is even less notable than an election. Oppose. Nergaal (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I only asking,, if lets say Norway was to change their countries name then would it be notable and be put on the ITN section, we all know that would happen. So why is it any different with Myanmar...? --BabbaQ (talk) 21:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Because it's Myanmar DC TC 21:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
If "Norway" changed to "Acmeland" - maybe. If "Kingdom of Norway" changed to "Glorious Kingdom of Norway" - probably not. And that's what we're looking at here: "Union of Myanmar" becoming "Republic of the Union of Myanmar". The junta have stuck "Republic of the" at the beginning. It's not something I can get terribly excited about. TFOWR 21:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
@TFOWR, quite. (edit conflict) If flag changes have precedence I'll Support that. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Malawi changed its flag a few months ago with no and that got an ITN mention. Kevin McE (talk) 21:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm more sold on the flag change than the name change, but not by much. Check the comments at WP:ITNC for the Malawi flag change: it was posted because "the timer [was] turn[ing] red", Malawi's a "unanimously recognized nation", the article had been updated sufficiently, etc. (And compare the updates to Flag of Burma). If Flag of Burma was updated I'd consider supporting. I'd still oppose the "Republic of the" name change, however. TFOWR 21:53, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
oppose I am not convinced we need to and TFOWR sums up my thoughts nicely The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Flag change. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
While this is the kind of thing that interests me, I wonder if it interests many of our other readers. There's a certain geek/cruft aspect to this. Certainly if France or Canada were to change its flag, there would be some reader interest, but I just don't think the BurMyanmarese flag is something that that many people would care about. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Flag of Malawi had a very noticeable spike when the flag change was on ITN. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:31, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Support the changing of a national flag certainly seems newsworthy and encyclopedic to me. --PlasmaTwa2 03:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
  Administrator note The article still needs to be updated. It looks to me as if it's getting shorter, not expanded, and the flag image seems to be a retrograde step as well... TFOWR 10:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I concur with TFOWR. There's next to no new material on the flag change apart from someone's personal observation that it looks a bit like Lithuania's. This can be posted when we have an update. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:38, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose flag change, support name change, which I find is far more important than the flag. --Golbez (talk) 14:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Flag change is very significant, and interesting too. Nightw 15:52, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Support It is not only a flag change, but name of the country and national anthem too.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
support per encyclopedic value of the news. -- Ashish-g55 17:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Historic national change. However, if Cyclone Giri is posted then we may end up having two simultaneous Myanmar/Burma related stories. The long-running article name dispute is irrelavent, and can be discussed in the meantime. ~AH1(TCU) 18:56, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Support precedent is Malawi.--Avala (talk) 23:19, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
  Administrator note (Again) The article still needs an update. TFOWR 23:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
There's a real dearth of good reliable references – BBC and CNN haven't even covered the change! I've updated the article as best I can with what I found. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 14:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Good enough for me - at least the image is of the correct flag now! ;-) If you (or anyone) suggests a blurb I'll post it. TFOWR 15:12, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
The government of Burma announces the adoption of a new flag (pictured), as well as changes to the country's official name and national anthem. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 15:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I suggest that we ASAP put this Burma story on the INT section as it will soon be an old story.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. I've left out the name change and national anthem as they're not mentioned anywhere in the Burma article, the Politics of Burma article or the Flag of Burma article. If someone wants to update one or other of the articles the blurb could be expanded. I've not done the image as I'm short on time and dropping by Wikipedia as time permits. It should be a good image, however - I can't see the Wikileaks story (current top ITN item) having any relevant image. TFOWR 16:40, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Is there consensus to add the name change even given an update? There is significant opposition to that above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:53, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


  • The discovery of UDFy-38135539 galaxy, the most distant object from Earth known to exist in the universe, is announced.
[26][27][28][29] Nergaal (talk) 18:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, but only if a reference to the actual Nature paper is added to the article. This is a significant new milestone, has been confirmed via spectroscopy (not just a photometric redshift), and the peer-reviewed paper has been published. Modest Genius talk 18:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Added. Nergaal (talk) 20:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Support this sounds like a big deal and we don't post enough science stories. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:49, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Support with Modest Genius' Caveat but other wise its interesting indeed The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:19, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. New article, looks great, MG's caveat addressed by Nergaal. TFOWR 20:38, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Posted although I'm hesitant to put up a picture because it won't come up well at all at thumbnail size. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Agreed, they should have moved the camera closer... --Stephen 21:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I reckon we could get away with re-using the current Megi photo - it looks like a galaxy... ;-) TFOWR 21:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
That is about as uninformative as a photo could possibly be: difficult to imagine that there is not a picture of one of the other blurbs that would not be more suitable. Kevin McE (talk) 16:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
It's a rather nasty crop of a press release JPG, which makes it look really bad. We could probably get a much better version by downloading the original TIFF (or even working from the FITS files). And the fact that it's a tiny faint dot is kinda the point! Modest Genius talk 17:08, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 Belgian love triangle skydiving murder trial

Im nominating this article and news as it has reached beyond Belgium with the news of Cottemans being sentencef was reported on Fox News in the states and Sky News on the UK. Also mentioned in papers trough out Europe. A special case overall. --BabbaQ (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Tabloid fodder. Modest Genius talk 16:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Anyone who wants to read about it can do, no need for (or possibility of) any background. Physchim62 (talk) 16:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose we are NOT a tabloid. Scandalous twisted but not ITN material The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:24, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose one murder trial, that's all.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose hundreds of love triangle murders happen across the world each year, or maybe thousands YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 03:51, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose, I'm surprised that this even received a nom... Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 04:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

October 20

UK budget cuts

I'm nominating this as a separate item from the defence cuts below, as it's unclear whether people are supporting/opposing the defence cuts alone or the larger story today. To repeat my argument below, Support the story on today's spending cuts pending an updated article. The biggest budget cuts in decades (edit: biggest since WWII), and the cutting of half a million jobs, is pretty noteworthy. (If a corporaton announced that many cuts, would we post that?). It's not just getting reported in the US (top of the NYTimes btw), it's also top story at Al Jazeera, reported in Le Monde and Toronto's Globe and Mail. If this happened in the US there would be overwhelming support. We've reported several domestic US stories, such as the Don't Ask... ruling. This seems to be notable enough. Plus, we can combine this story and the previous defense cuts announcement, which certainly affects foreign policy.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Reiterate support for reasons stated above. Have expanded Spending Review (United Kingdom), though barely scrapes the surface of today's events. yorkshiresky (talk) 18:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per Johnsemlak, I don't think defence is enough, but the overall budget cuts are worthy of posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Another proposal into the pot:
To me, this seems like the only nugget which will really interest readers who aren't British or living in the UK. Physchim62 (talk) 20:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. The nuclear aspect - a 25% reduction by a nuclear power, and a permanent member of the UN Security Council - makes this an international story. Support. TFOWR 20:17, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support like TFOWR said 25% of its arsenal! They also have the 3rd largest arsenal on earth so its big news. I wonder if it will put them below france in arsenal size... The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
    I think that's already the case: Force de Frappe. France managed not to blow up all their nuclear weapons in the Pacific... TFOWR 23:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support half a million jobs. One employer removes 1% of the entire nation's population YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Commment Where is the 25% reduction mentioned, it's not in either Spending or Defence Review? --Stephen 00:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, major implications for the UK, especially the defense cuts, which also has worldwide repercussions due to the size of the UK armed forces. C628 (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. wonder where all these jobs would go. looks like the once mighty Queen cant afford a Christmas party this year(USAToday)--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support per aboves. DC TC 04:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted as budget cuts, as I couldn't see mention of 25% reductions in nuclear warheads... --Stephen 05:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Death of Farooq Leghari

Former President of Pakistan (1993-1997) dies at 70. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

support death of former head of state -- Ashish-g55 13:12, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm on the fence - he wasn't President for that long, really, and he was 70 at the time of his death...  f o x  13:16, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I need a fence for fencing my garden. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 14:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm going to join Fox on the fence. He wasn't exactly young, nor was in perfect health according to our article, but he was head of state of a nuclear power. I wouldn't mind seeing this go up if the article were adequately updated considering it's a slow news day, but I'm not brimming with enthusiasm either. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. What did he do exatly? President of Pakistan for 4 years doesn't cut it. MickMacNee (talk) 15:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, but if we want a Pakistan story, the one below about them having been found to be involved in the 2008 attacks on India might be good. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:43, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose insignificant figure in Pakistani politics--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
He was president for 4 years, equal to a single term in many countries. That's not a short time in politics. I can't say how significant he was--the presidency of Pakistan has evolved over the years--but as I understand he was the country's commander in chief.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Also forced out of Office by a national uprising for tampering with the constitution. Not exactly a Jimmy Carter type figure The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Being a Jimmy Carter type figure is not an ITN death criteria. i'm not sure of how much impact he had on pakistan's politics but the above comparison is not a valid by any means (atleast for ITN inclusion) -- Ashish-g55 20:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose we have millions of Pakistan stories and this guy doesn't seem particularly exciting - Pakistan punches far above its population weight on WP:ITN. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose PM and the generals are the main folks YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Right about the generals. more specifically it is the Inter-Services Intelligence who runs the "Land of the Pure". this guy probably couldn't even pass gas without ISI's permission.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
As an aside, Algirdas Brazauskas was posted. and lithuania is far less significant in the international arena.(Lihaas (talk) 03:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC));
But Brazauskas was the first post-Soviet president of the new Republic of Lithuania. Grsz11 03:49, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose basically per all the above, but especially Eraserhead. DC TC 04:29, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Support since being a president for four years is long enough (isn't that the same length as the United States?) and he seems to have been one of the presidents to have served longest in Pakistan in recent times. I don't know how any president of a country can be described as "insignificant" in its politics. Being forced out of office in a national uprising does sound quite significant actually. The article also states: "He was the first Balouch President of Pakistan". The BBC states that he helped found the party which is now in government there. He also resigned as president. He then founded another party and led it through a successful election campaign as recently as 2002. Are these enough reasons? --candlewicke 01:06, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Political assassination in Poland

Gunman in Poland kills 1 opposition member, wounds another amid bitter election campaign. [30] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - as morally frustrating as it is, it was just one death of a not-really-that-notable person. Presumably the election will be up sometime next year, anyway.  f o x  08:37, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Poland is a dangerous place. So what's news? MickMacNee (talk) 15:38, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment Source for Poland being particularly dangerous? Its an EU country... -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

British Military Cuts

  • PM Cameron has announced an 8% cut in military spending. This is probably the biggest domestic issue in Britain this year (I'm American so I can't be quite positive). And it's getting some attention here in the colonies. DC TC 00:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
It was announced on Tuesday because there's an even bigger announcement coming on Wednesday! Neutral for the moment, but the two announcements should be taken together as one story. Physchim62 (talk) 00:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Domestic policy, no matter how significant it is to the Brits. I'll oppose. Grsz11 00:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, agree with Grsz11. Not of sufficiently international interest. Per Physchim, the Wednesday announcement regarding the BBC—including the BBC World Service—would be of greater global significance. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 00:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I'll wait and see what the news is today but if it's the largest series of cuts 'in decades', I would likely support provided there's a suitable article. There is no firm rule against domestic news items and this one seems awfully significant. Plus, the military cuts are already affecting the UK's foreign relations, so it's not really just a 'local' story even now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:32, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Right, the UK has the fourth largest military in the world, so it's hardly domestic. DC TC 04:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
As to the specific area of military cuts, it has already dropped out of UK TV news headlines today, in place of speculation about cuts in other areas. Kevin McE (talk) 07:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose, including today's announcements, unless something really unpredictable happens (selling the royal family to Pixar, Volkswagon to take over running the NHS, mass slaughter of the financially unproductive...). We've given coverage to the fact of the world recession, each govt will have a response to that which will include some cutbacks. We don't need to give details of each country's response, whether it is Tahiti, UK, or US. Kevin McE (talk) 06:01, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - the fourth-largest military in the world just had nearly a tenth of their budget cut while plans to scrap their flagship aircraft carrier were significantly accelerated, and a retooling of the military towards Afghan-style wars will be undertaken. Definitely internationally significant. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 06:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - Most countries are having to tighten their belts and I fail to see why cuts in the UK (and specifically in the military) are more notable than anywhere else. I suspect that come later today, when full details are announced of cuts, it will be public sector job cuts that will be making the news... --Daviessimo (talk) 06:55, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - domestic news, no real wider significance. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - biggest domestic issue this year? Not even close. Trivial news filler. Important now, perhaps, but not in a week.  f o x  08:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It probably is the biggest domestic news in the UK this year, but it's still domestic news. Many other countries are slashing budgets to deal with the recession, so, from a global perspective, it's not significant. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:54, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Support SDSR clearly of international importance, would suggest it is combined with today's CSR announcement. Suggest tagline The UK coalition government announces £81 billion of cuts following a Spending and Defence Review, once they've been updated. yorkshiresky (talk) 15:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. This is not even the biggest story in the UK this month. It's only making the US news because you finally realised your coalition 'partner' was only bringing a pea shooter to the party, and is about to cut that super weapon in half due to your fucked up ideas about what makes a good mortgage deal or not. MickMacNee (talk) 15:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Pile on oppose the mighty empire going bankrupt. Yawn--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:45, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Support the story on today's spending cuts pending an updated article. The biggest budget cuts in decades (does anyone have a more precise time-frame that that?), and the cutting of half a million jobs, is pretty noteworthy. (If Ford announced that many cuts, would we post that?). It's not just getting reported in the US (top of the NYTimes btw), it's also top story at Al Jazeera, reported in Le Monde and Toronto's Globe and Mail. If this happened in the US there would be overwhelming support. We've reported several domestic US stories, such as the Don't Ask... ruling. This seems to be notable enough. It's far more notable than the guy who won some motorcycle races or the Canadian GC.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd be prepared to support posting the whole UK cuts - not just defence. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, we'd post it if Ford suddenly cut half a million jobs because that would mean Ford had suddenly gone out of business, taking with it 300,000 more employees than it actually has. If, however, Ford announced cutting 8% of its work force? Meh. --Golbez (talk) 19:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 Karachi riots

In continuing political and ethnic violence in the Pakistani city of Karachi, 35 people die in less than a day, raising fears of a return to the city's turmoil of the 1990s. [31][32][33] -- (talk) 17:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

It's difficult to assess without an article or an update. 2010 Karachi riots deals with riots from August—are these riots part of the same unrest? If so, that article should be updated. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:37, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, mounting tensions and turmoil, death toll has also risen. Yes, these target killings are part of the 2010 Karachi riots as there are politically and ethnic-motivated factors behind the attacks. Mar4d (talk) 09:01, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now. Last time 85 people died and we posted it. To repost this I would assume that figure to triple the least. Nergaal (talk) 20:37, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment: According to the AFP, over 70 have already been killed.[34] It is inevitable that more than 85 will be killed. -- (talk) 14:16, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

October 19

2010 Calgary Civic Election

Naheed Nenshi is voted mayor of Calgary, Alberta, the first Muslim person to be elected mayor of a major city in Canada. (Globe and Mail) - Nenshi's surprise election has made international headlines (per Calgary Sun), though his faith has interestingly been a bigger news item outside of Calgary than within. Resolute 00:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose If it were New York, perhaps. Grsz11 00:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose First Muslim Mayor its not a big deal of midsize city is not terribly big deal. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 01:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Third largest city and fourth largest metro in Canada, actually. Resolute 01:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
In Canada. Grsz11 01:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Indeed. I seem to have forgotten that I was at the American Wikipedia. Silly me. Resolute 02:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I think I get where Grsz11 was coming from, assuming that the third largest city in Canada must be small. But it's still nearly a million people. Sure, that would place it somewhere around 10th in the USA... I oppose simply because a municipal election is rarely national or international news, no matter who it is. In fact, by not harping on the fact that he's Muslim, we would be doing a service by not kowtowing to what I presume is a reactionary media reporting on it from outside Calgary. Would we include the first Buddhist, or Baha'i, or Zoroastrian, or what not to win an election in Canada? No? Then why are Muslims different? --Golbez (talk) 14:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, a joke was my intention. Glad someone got it. Grsz11 14:17, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The idea of a muslim mayor just about anywhere outside of Rome just makes me shrug and think "so what?" Physchim62 (talk) 02:09, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough. I figured it was worth a flier, at any rate. Consider the request cheerfully withdrawn. ;) Resolute 02:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
'Oppose - if it were a larger city, then sure. But Calgary has a population of just under a million.  f o x  08:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. For cities the size of Canada, it would frankly have to be first martian becomes Mayor. This isn't even 1/20th the size of London, or even Scotland hilariously enough. MickMacNee (talk) 15:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Scotland is a country and Calgary is a city. I fail to see the hilarity. --Smashvilletalk 21:17, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Especially since it's 1/5th the size of Scotland, bringing MickMacNee's entire comment into question. (Also, the only cities the size of Canada are Tokyo and Sao Paulo! ;)) --Golbez (talk) 21:20, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It's an indicator of significant progress, but we can't post every first homosexual/ethnic minority/religious minority leader of every place. I might support for a capital city or a city that's otherwise very important or very well-known internationally but I'm afraid Calgary (as decent-a-city as I'm sure it is) is just not on that level of significance. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose not because Calgary isn't an important city, but because Canada doesn't suffer from the same anti-Muslim problems as the States does. This isn't a groundbreaking story here like it would be if it happened in the States. --PlasmaTwa2 05:38, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Mumbai Attacks Report

The Indian releases a report on the 2008 Mumbai attacks concluding Lashkar-e-Taiba was supported by the Pakastani intelligent service.Yahoo news Foxnews An important development in international relations whether or not its true it will only inflame tensions there. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:28, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Very Strong Support for this one. An official conclusion that a major terrorist offensive against a sovereign nation was directly (Not tangentially) aided and financed by another sovereign nation is major international news a la Bay of Pigs, 1979 Soviet Coup in Afghanistan, Etc. This, while war is still extremely unlikely, gives India legal Casus Belli. Cwill151 (talk) 03:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree wtih Cwill151, and support. The relevant section seems to be updated. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Indeed its not just updated in the Relavent section its been a "Good Article" for while now The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:53, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong Support per nom--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:56, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak support considering very few updates have been posted on the ITN lately. Nergaal (talk) 17:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Seeing as everything above this seems to have (so far, at least) been for the most part roundly opposed, perhaps this could be posted, since it has no major objections and the timer is red? Not sure how to word the blurb though... Ks0stm (TCG) 18:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
The article needs updating, too - and for that matter: which article should be linked? 2008 Mumbai attacks, Aftermath of the 2008 Mumbai attacks or Reactions to the 2008 Mumbai attacks? I'm inclined towards one of the first two, but whichever one it is - they all need to be updated: none mention the latest report. TFOWR 18:50, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
That section I linked above isn't updated? What am I missing here? Ks0stm (TCG) 18:55, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
You're missing the part where "India releases a report on the 2008 Mumbai attacks concluding Lashkar-e-Taiba was supported by the Pakastani intelligent service". ;-) TFOWR 19:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
=P What I seem to be doing is confusing previously released material with the information in this current report. Give me a sec, I'll update the article with at least the fact that the new report was released. Ks0stm (TCG) 19:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
No worries! While you do that I'll work on a blurb - unless anyone else has any ideas? TFOWR 19:11, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I updated with the very basics ("An Indian report was released in October 2010 concluding that Pakistan's intelligence agency had aided in the 2008 attacks, providing funding for reconnaissance missions in Mumbai.") and the Fox News AP article as the for a more detailed update, someone better than me at prose synthesis will have to expand. Ks0stm (TCG) 19:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I added some more prose, too. I'm a bit "edited out": if someone suggests a blurb I'll post, but I'm going to grab a cup of tea before I try thinking about words again ;-) TFOWR 19:54, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm breaking my own rules about over-linking... TFOWR 20:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and posting soon (unless HJ beats me to it...) TFOWR 20:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. TFOWR 21:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Chechen Parliament Shooting

  • There are reports of a shooting at the Chechen parliament building. MSNBC DC TC 05:48, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Support - at least 4 deaths. Article required. 2010 Chechen Parliament shootings - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 07:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
6 people were killed, including 3 terrorists and a parliament administrative manager.[35] I have created the article. Offliner (talk) 08:27, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unless something big comes out of this. Terrorists attacks are not uncommon in Chechnia and I am not convinced a separate article is required. Btw 6 people dying of which 3 are terrorists does not shout ITN worthy. Nergaal (talk) 09:20, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Even in areas where attacks are common, an attack on the seat of government itself is always notable. --Golbez (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
High profile attacks like this are uncommon in Chechnya these days. The violence has reduced a lot in the last few years. The situation is different in neighbouring republics like Ingushetia. Attacking the parliament is about as high profile as you can get, although this one directly involved only 3-4 terrorists. Offliner (talk) 09:39, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. An attack on a national Parliament is an internationally notable event. Well, more than a routine election in nowhereiziistan anyway. MickMacNee (talk) 10:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment--Chechnya is a sub-national entity, not even a 'partially recognized' state at the moment.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Parliament attacked. It shocked. --TarzanASG (talk) 11:43, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Now that it's been posted (and I'm not sure we have a decisive consensus yet), shouldn't we state what country it's in in the blurb?--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Hm. On the one hand, most people would know that it's in Russia, just as we would state that someone became Governor of California, not Governor of California, United States. On the other hand, I'm sure some people will say that, by omitting Russia, we're somehow recognizing a Chechen independence that does not exist either on paper or in fact. --Golbez (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
As an average reader, I had no idea where "Chechen" referred to.  f o x  19:43, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, posted. Suggestions for improvements are welcome. WP:ERRORS is probably the best place for that because I'm struggling to load this page on my dodgy connection but that's smaller. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:31, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

October 18

Foreclosure crisis

Just started this article. I was shocked to find no information about it on wikipedia. Obviously one of the biggest news stories in the USA the last two weeks. CoolMike (talk) 23:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Wanted to add that even though the article is in really rough shape, the event is especially news-worthy and would very likely be greatly improved by being linked from the front page. CoolMike (talk) 01:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose local story of interest only in USA--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment The crisis does have the ability to spill over into the rest of the world, much like the sub-prime mortgage crisis and the US housing bubble did. With the US economy currently representing roughly 25% of the world economic output this has the potential to impact the world wide economy. CoolMike (talk) 01:23, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
We currently have stories on a storm in the Philippines, strikes in France, and a tunnel in Switzerland. You didn't oppose those. DC TC 02:10, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
and the only one I supported was the supertyphoon. agree the strikes in France are more local in impact than this story but then that one is in Europe and this one is in the USA ;)--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The various doubts about the legality of foreclosures in the U.S. have made it into the news on the opposite side of the Atlantic, but I'm still not clear about what the ITN story is. Are we saying that lots of people are having their mortgages foreclosed? In which case, no big deal, what do you expect in the worst recession for thirty-odd years? Or are we saying that lots of people are having their mortgages foreclosed wrongly? In which case, we're just dealing with allegations, and allegations which will no doubt end up before the courts of all fifty States. I find it hard to see an ITN story in here, but I'm willing to be convinced. Physchim62 (talk) 02:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment Good points. I would say that the in the news story is really three parts. First, recent and serious allegations were made against very large banks, including Bank of America, one of the largest financial institutions on the planet. The allegations themselves are noteworthy in this case becuase under a common interpretation discusssed in various news papers, radio reports, and TV news reports, they amount to allegations of surprisingly widespread fraud (one or two sources claim 90% of forclosures are missing proper documentation). However, I understand that a report of allegations probably should not be a front-page ITN news story. The second news story, which I think is much more ITN worthy, is the temporary and voluntary suspension of foreclosure procedings from four very large US banks, following a month where 100,000 new forclosures were initiated (in itself a record in the US). I think this should probably be the ITN headline, ie: "Citigroup, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and JPMorgan partially suspend foreclosure procedings in the US in response to allegations of misconduct known as the 2010 US Foreclosure crisis." I suppose the third option would be to discuss the "Robo-signing" controvesy more directly. A google search will show you that the robo-signing controversy has gotten very significant press coverage as well. That being said, I think I like the middle option the best. I really wish I had more time to write up a much better article. I think perhaps we should change the name to something like "2010 US Forclosure crisis". Also, someone should take a stab at filling out the section "voluntary suspension of forclosures" which I have left blank. If I get some time I will fill it in. As it stands I am still at work and it is 11pm my time. CoolMike (talk) 02:56, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I'm just not seeing the story here. Some banks messed up foreclosing some mortgages, and may have done so illegally. So what? Modest Genius talk 19:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
The number is 62 million mortgages. Its an endemic situation. __meco (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Also note that Bank of America is listed by Forbes as the third largest company (of any kind) in the world. Citigroup probably isn't far behind, and Wells Fargo and JPMorgan are also huge. Additionally, some news sources and experts have placed the possible cost of the crisis to these banks at greater than 100 billion dollars. Other experts claim the cost will be in the low billions dollars (comparitively small change). Remember again that the fall of just a handful of banks was a bellweather of the worldwide economic collapse of the late 2000's and I have found at least one source that claims this could be the beginning of a double-dip recession. Who can say how big of a deal this really is? Certainly the Y2K bug was noteworthy and newsworthy, even if it didn't cuase any worldwide or even national problems. Anyhow, Cheers! CoolMike (talk) 23:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. This crisis has a blatantly criminal origin, its scope is simply huge. __meco (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
It's not blatently criminal: seems more like sheer incompetence to me. If a bank can't foreclose on a domestic mortgage correctly, then what can it do? Even then, while it is shocking incompetence, it is hardly world record financial incompetence – the Icelanders will hold that "honour" for a long time, I think. Physchim62 (talk) 23:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. This indeed may lead to another wave of crisis not only in the U.S. but globally. GreyHood Talk 20:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Additional Comments Note sure how much commenting is appropriate as I am the originator of the suggestion. However, I wanted to attach some links that discuss the potentially massive impact of this scandal. This article discusses the possibility of this causing a double dip recession: [dip]. This article was posted just an hour ago and discusses possible criminal charges that are being discussed in Washington: [charges]. Finally, here is a very short article about how the crisis is starting to hurt the rest of the housing market. [market]. I only wish I had a little bit more time to edit the article in question. It badly needs work. CoolMike (talk) 23:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Technical point. From what I can gather, the decision to suspend foreclosures happened two weeks ago [36]. If that's true, the story is out-of-timescale for ITN. Physchim62 (talk) 23:19, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Support in theory. This is a major financial story with global implications. However, it's one of those things, like the subprime mortgage crisis itself, that is a long-running thing rather than a single event. Bank of America's action alone doesn't seem like an ITN-type entry, but how else can we frame this? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for the moment. As it stands, the story is a round peg trying to fit into the square hole that is ITN. I'll certainly reconsider if there are any big developments (e.g. one of the big mortgage lenders needing to be rescued). Physchim62 (talk) 23:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I think if there was a single big development to this story so far, it was the announcement of the investigation by the 50 state attorneys general of the U.S. But I don't think there was an article at that time. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm with CoolMike when he suggests that the story was the suspension of foreclosures by the big mortgage lenders; onfortunately, it slipped under our radar at the time. It would also have been a story if the President had forced a suspension of foreclosures, but he didn't. So my feeling is that we should wait for the next big development (I've a feeling that this story will run for quite a while), and use the time to improve the article. Physchim62 (talk) 00:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
This might be fair enough. I will take the time to try and improve the article for now. I will resubmit the article for ITN if there is any substantial legal action taken against the banks (for example, if criminal charges get filed). Also, it looks as if there is a chance President Obama will step in and make it news-worthy again by addressing congress on the issue or calling for new legislation or something like that. Its a shame that we missed this thing. I actually started the article after trying to learn about the crisis. I actually navigated to the english wikipedia main page, expecting to see a link to the appropriate article in the "ITN" section of the main page. I have to admit I was a little confused when nothing showed up there. CoolMike (talk) 14:49, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I've tried to understand wtf this new 'crisis' is all about about five times now, and I still have no idea. You aren't going to convince anyone who doesn't already know in a one line blurb, so it's a no from me. MickMacNee (talk) 15:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Basically, during the financial crisis of the past few years, a lot of Americans have lost their homes. In order for the economy to come back, the housing market has to get going again. But the resale of those foreclosed homes has gotten messed up because the banks failed to process the foreclosures properly. This was the lead story on two of the four U.S. network newscasts tonight (the other two had Clarence Thomas's wife asking Anita Hill for an apology). So I think it's still fresh enough to go on ITN. Perhaps we can use the following blurb:
Article needs to be improved, though. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Response to MickMacNee (above) The idea isn't to convince anyone of anything. I simply find the whole thing fascinating. Also, I was hoping that a stint on the front page would help jump-start the article and get it into good shape. I think the article should be on par with other important ITN articles we have all seen in the past. Think about how the wikipedia article on the earthquake in haiti became such an important and well regarded resource for people interested in the aftermath. I remember reading a news article that stated something to the effect that for all intents and puposes that article was the clearinghouse for up to date information on the subject (or something to that effect). Anyhow, to repeat, the idea isn't to convince anyone that this is a real problem, the idea is to report what all of the other news stations and papers are reporting on and present the facts as they are presented in verifiable sources. Leave the rest up to the reader. CoolMike (talk) 16:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

LaShawn Merritt

  • Olympic gold medalist LaShawn Merritt has been suspended 21 months for doping. We included Contador so why not add him? Plus, it's been a slow news day. DC TC 22:07, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Didn't we include Contador because he won this year's Tour de France? Merritt has been on suspension for a year - all they did today was tell him when his suspension would end...the 21 month ban includes "time served". Unless they strip Merritt of his Olympic medals, I oppose. --Smashvilletalk 22:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Suspension was placed in April. And Contador won the Tour three times, with the suspension coming two months after the most recent win. Grsz11 22:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

October 17

Typhoon Megi (2010)

Megi aka Juan is a category 5 super typhoon in the SSHS; in plane English, one bad-ass storm. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:21, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Am I wrong for wanting to see "one bad-ass storm" on the main page? ;-) TFOWR 13:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
It'll be better if no one dies; it should still be on ITN since it'll be quite an achievement to prevent deaths in one really bad-ass storm. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:38, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support: Yes, this would be a nice topic to be posted as it is the first super typhoon since 2009. Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 13:27, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait to see what happens when it makes landfall. Yes we can predict it will probably be bad, but we're not a crystal ball. Being a cat 5 isn't enough on its own, it needs to have some impact. Modest Genius talk 15:54, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now - article is not updated and has an empty section. Wait until impacts come in - simply being at its strength isn't notable for ITN. Would support if it causes major damage, which it likely will, but as MG said, WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Also seems too unstable at this time as sections are still undergoing expansion. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 15:56, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support later on after it owns the Philippines, as it is currently forecasted to do...also support even if, hopefully, no lives are lost as a result. Ks0stm (TCG) 19:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
HTD, this is a bad-ass storm. The Joint Typhoon Warning Center has stated that Megi attained peak maximum sustained winds of 160–165 knots, with a 163 knots directly measured by a vortex data message.[37] In other words, Megi has tied the worldwide tropical cyclone intensity record set by Typhoon Tip; the rarity of this event means it is a strong support from me, although I wouldn't complain if we wait until after the impending landfall. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 22:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. I usually look the other way when these get nominated, as I'm no big fan of tropical storm stories, but the biggest tropical cyclone in more than 30 years has to be worth an ITN piece (that needs to be in the article before it can go in the blurb, BTW). Physchim62 (talk) 23:09, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support I would argue to let it go ahead and hit something but from what the forecasts show its gonna be hitting land very soon within the next 12-24 hours. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support but wait until it is closer to landfall. It shouldn't get posted now, then get bumped off, then potentially renommed because of the damage. Nergaal (talk) 01:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Support at landfall. looks like a big one--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. I support posting it at landfall. It's apparently one of the biggest storms to hit land ever. Also support saying bad-ass storm in the blurb :) (my apologies to anyone who doesn't find that funny).--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Just a note, the term 'category 5' and 'super tyhpoon' are terms used by the US Dept of Defense's Joint Typhoon Warning Center and not by the Japanese Meteorological Agency, which is the official warning center for the West Pacific. - CWY2190(talkcontributions) 14:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: Typhoon Megi, (Juan) becomes the ninth most intense tropical cyclone on record as it makes landfall in Isabela Province, in the Philippines, killing 2 people and causing severe damage. - I know the media is reporting the deaths slightly higher but im think its best we keep to the official death toll as reported by the Philippine NDCC.Jason Rees (talk) 14:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, I think that's way too long. If it's killed only two people, let's focus on its intensity. Also, why the ", (Juan)"? If it has two different names, use one or the other, but both is unnecessary. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 14:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. Apologies, I should have mentioned this much sooner - HJ asked me to tidy up the loose ends, but I left some untidied... TFOWR 14:56, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Can we avoid repeating the words 'make landfall' in the blurb? Also the reference cited in the blurb lists Megi as a category 8 storm.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Suggest: Typhoon Megi, a Category 5 super typhoon and one of the strongest recorded storms ever, makes landfall in the Philippines. Also, from my reading of that, it's tied for 8th, not a Category 8. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 15:17, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Uh, this has been posted so WP:ERRORS would be a better bet for this conversation now. However, and coincidentally, I've just removed the second instance of "make landfall". TFOWR 15:20, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, my bad on the category 8 bit. I had a feeling I was wrong.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:22, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
(ECx2) Its actually 9th in the world as the template on LOTMITC is only for the WPAC, im currently writing one for the whole world (though the only change is Hurricane Wilma is added to the world one in 8th place).Jason Rees (talk) 15:25, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Support implementing the death toll so far (at least 20) and the evacuations in South China (where it's expected to make landfall next, but now only as TS). Future noms should make sure they remember that category 8 super typhoons currently DO NOT EXIST. ~AH1(TCU) 00:24, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Canonisation of Mary MacKillop

  • Seems notable enough as she's the first Australian saint. Also interesting in that she had been excommunicated by the Church but later reinstated, maybe that could be included in the blurb if necessary. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 08:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Significantly updated, first for Australia, of interest internationally. I'm agnostic, but isn't this a great ITN for a Sunday? :-) TFOWR 09:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support--the first ever Australian saint seems pretty significant.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:55, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support good item. MickMacNee (talk) 12:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
support canonization are inherently ITN worthy. The dont happen often and are important to 1,100,000,000 catholics world wideThe Resident Anthropologist (talk) 12:44, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm considering posting this soon - if it's going to be posted I'd like it posted before the end of Australia's Sunday. I'm inclined towards ALT0:
No image, because I'm an image-idiot and I'll break something - obviously smarted folk than what I am can add the image later. Image idiocy issues aside, last-minute thoughts on posting welcomed. Everyone happy with ALT0 as the blurb? (incidentally: BBC and The Age say five others. I've changed "alongside" to "along with" - "alongside" makes it sound as if they were all standing next to each other at the Vatican...) TFOWR 12:59, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. TFOWR, the image thing is easy—if it's a Commons image, just copy it to your computer, upload it locally, copy the tags from Commons and add {{c-uploaded}} or {{m-cropped}}, then change the image on ITN (which is cascade protected, so you don't have to worry about protecting it). I would, but it's taken me nearly 10 minutes just to load this page. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:37, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I'll give it a try. It's mostly the protection that concerns me, and the possibility of being slapped with a large aquatic animal by an editor with a greek alphabetical username... TFOWR 13:42, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Done. I could do with some sanity-checking: the "(pictured)" right before the m-dash looks wrong. I suspect protection is fine - I took a belt-and-braces approach and fully-protected the image, so with cascading protection as well I suspect I'm safe from fish. TFOWR 14:00, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
There wouldn't happen to be a article we could link to that lists all the saints that were canonised today? It seems strange that we only link to one of them. --PlasmaTwa2 15:27, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm late, but oppose. There are thousands of saints, creating new ones isn't particularly significant unless you're a very devout catholic. Modest Genius talk 15:57, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
True, but only one of those saints is "the first ever Australian saint" ;-) TFOWR 17:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Thousands of saints have been named over a period of two thousand years, so canonization is still a relatively rare event. There are over 1.1 billion Catholics in the world, the majority of whom could be described as 'devout' to some degree. 'Only devout Catholics' is a pretty large group. --Johnsemlak (talk) 18:35, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
There are many meanings and applications of the word saint: we should not use one of them restrictively on the front page. That is to favour a particular POV, as Orthodox Christians, Anglicans, Protestants, Mormons, Jews, Hindus or Buddhists, as well as Catholics taking the wider definition into account, might disagree that "Mary MacKillop is the first Australian saint": she could of course be described as the "first Australian so recognised". Kevin McE (talk) 06:22, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
The current blurb does specify that the Pope canonized McKillop, which identifies this as a Catholic matter and I think addresses that concern somewhat, though probably inadequately. The word canonize is also specifically Catholic. It's a valid concern though. The tricky thing is there's no firm difference as far as I'm aware between Catholic saints and Orthodox saints or other branches of Christianity. However, the issue of saint's outside Christianity I think is stretching the meaning of 'saint' and IMO is an unnecessary concern.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:11, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

October 16

Expo 2010

On its 168th day, Expo 2010 in Shanghai (Colombia Pavilion pictured) breaks a 40-year record for number of visitors to a World Expo. --candlewicke 02:57, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Oops.. according to this. --candlewicke 02:58, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose--Seems to be a relatively obscure statistic.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:57, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm kind of on the fence. It is a little obscure, but it's impressive at the same time. I'd suggest waiting until the Expo closes at the end of the month, and then considering posting? TFOWR 10:05, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. So what? We can't go posting every attendance record, especially since the Expos have a tendency to keep getting bigger. We already featured the opening. Modest Genius talk 15:58, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
A tendency to keep getting bigger? But this is the first time since 1970 that this has happened. --candlewicke 16:14, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I meant in terms of money, though I am surprised the record has stood for that long. Modest Genius talk 16:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait and post when the Expo closes, which is what we do with the things like the Olympics. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:05, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

French strikes

Seems to be a bit of a slow news day so I thought I'd throw this up. It seems the French have been on strike for 5 days with more strikes planned. Around 900,000 people have been taking part in mass protests and oil refineries have been affected, leading to panic buying and fuel shortages. I'm not aware of an article, but I expect there'll be a general article somewhere. BBC HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Support. BBC figures: Saturday 16 October: 825,000 - 3 million, Tuesday 12 October: 1.2m - 3.5 million, Saturday 2 October: 899.000 - 3 million, Thursday 23 September: 997,000 - 3 million, Tuesday 7 September: 1.2m - 2.7 million . That's a lot on any one of those days, never mind five. Tuesday is expected to be day six. All the country's refineries affected with most already shut down, 10% of filling stations running out of petrol, schools shut, Marseille's port full of rubbish... this is clearly not an ordinary protest. --candlewicke 02:38, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Candlewicke's numbers are pretty convincing here.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:58, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support but where is the article? - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:12, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Nothing listed for October at 2010 in France :-( TFOWR 10:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC) Fixed now ;-) TFOWR 12:01, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The French like to strike. What's new? MickMacNee (talk) 12:20, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
The numbers involved. The comparision with 1995? --candlewicke 16:21, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I can probably get behind a blurb like The French manage to go 15 years without a big strike. But that's about it... MickMacNee (talk) 16:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Neutral (and trying not to let my opinion that this is a stupid thing to strike about affect my judgement). These are certainly big strikes, but with fresh rounds of austerity measures coming up worldwide there are bound to be many more in the near future. Modest Genius talk 15:59, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Isn't that speculation? --candlewicke 16:21, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Yep, but it's not a problem because I'm not presenting it in an article :p Modest Genius talk 16:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per Candlewicke, this is much bigger than expected. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:04, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Strikes occur as millions of people demonstrate on the streets of France against government attempts to raise the country's retirement and pension ages. --candlewicke 01:56, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

My understanding is that these strikes consist of several, separate days with the most recent being last Tuesday (12 October) and Saturday (16 October). The next day is tomorrow. There seems to be consensus to post this; however, would it be worth holding off until tomorrow? Candlewicke, your blurb suggests that there are strikes right now - am I misreading the situation? Either way, I'd suggest that the blurb should reflect that the strikes have been ongoing since early September. TFOWR 12:01, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
The strikes hit the front pages again as French petrol stations run dry. THe protracted nature of the strikes does make it problematic to pick the precise moment when to post, but this is clearly a notable event.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Support after today's events. Article? Modest Genius talk 20:08, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
2010 strikes in France. New article, looks OK. TFOWR 20:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't think today's events have been added to the article, but there have been riots in the streets and CDG, Europe's second-busiest airport, has seen major disruption. We've posted smaller events in smaller countries before and this kind of thing is very rare for a G8 economy. It's gone beyond the typical French tendency to go on strike. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Posting shortly. Shout now if you have any problems with:
  • Strikes continue in France as millions of people demonstrate against government attempts to raise the retirement and pension ages.
TFOWR 22:17, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. TFOWR 22:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Benoît Mandelbrot

has died, aged 85. One of the very few pure mathematicians to be known to wider public, as the (step-)father of fractals and the famous Mandelbrot set. Physchim62 (talk) 20:17, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I'm sure he was very notable but his death at 85 isn't significant. Nothing against this nom specifically, that's just what I say for almost all old-age deaths suggested here. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Significant mathematician and populariser of mathematics. I don't really like the current one-sentence Death section - it should either be incorporated into the other prose or expanded. Modest Genius talk 20:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
I expanded the section with some reaction to his death, should be OK now. Modest Genius talk 20:48, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak support. A death at the age of 85 from pancreatic cancer is not really unexpected, but this gentleman was significant in a field that is under-represented on ITN and the articles is in decent shape though, as MG says, the death section will need some work. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:29, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Support He did groundbreaking work with fractals and is very well known, I think. But the article's death section itself needs some more work. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 20:37, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
(Forgot I was editing double edit conflict) Support as a very significant, groundbreaking mathematician. Ks0stm (TCG) 20:59, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Support we have so many actors popping out at ITN and very few scientists (outside Nobels). Nergaal (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. An iconic individual whose influence reached far beyond mathematics. The death section has been expanded since. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

October 15

Sale of Liverpool F.C.

New England Sports Ventures, the owner of the Boston Red Sox, takes over as owners of English Premier League side Liverpool Football Club. (BBC)

This was suggested a week ago, but it was clear the sale wouldn't be complete for some time. It is now complete, after a week of some pretty well-covered drama involving the club in the relegation zone1, mired in debt and just one day away from administration or bankruptcy. The sale was initially blocked by court cases in London and Texas, before finally proceeding. Liverpool is, according to WP, the most successful English football club and this takeover has happened in quite dramatic circumstances. Plus, the sale of a top sports club is certainly not an everyday occurrence. --Johnsemlak (talk) 03:52, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Support, covered internationally (was lead story on BBC World News and third story on CNN International when it went through, for example) and if ITN did Kraft taking over Cadbury, this isn't dissimilar. Strange Passerby (talkcstatus) 04:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment - Just to clarify a couple of things... Firstly, Liverpool's poor start to the season doesn't really have anything to do with the takeover. Liverpool had more players at the world cup than any other English side and is feeling the effects of having no squad depth. Secondly, the sale of Cadbury was for £12bn - this sale is for £300m. This is reflective of the fact that Cadbury's primary function is to make money, whereas Liverpool's primary function is to win things - realistically the two are not comparable. Thirdly, while the parent company Kop Holdings was in debt (to the tune of £280m) Liverpool itself was entirely solvent. As such, even if the club had gone into administration it would have been easily sold on as a whole and there was never any risk of bankruptcy and a winding up order. The problem for Hicks and Gillett was that RBS was unwilling to extend credit facilities for the debt likely because RBS is effectively state owned and the debt meant Liverpool was effectively owned by RBS, which is an apparent conflict of interest. Finally, the actions of H&G in twice taking the issue to court were nothing more than a stalling tactic. NESV had long said they would withdraw their offer if the club went into administration (because the looming prospect of a nine point reduction would leave Liverpool on -3 points for the season). To quote Lord Justic Floyd "The owners' behaviour conclusively demonstrates just how incorrigible they are... They are absolutely determined to stop this transaction in its tracks and they have no lawful justification for behaving in this way". My own feeling is the media attention has only occurred because of the actions of H&G and their constant attempts to block the sale. Thus, if this were to be posted, I would suggest the focus should illustrate that issue:
Daviessimo, I don't disagree with anything you say, but I'll just point out that LFC's slow start, while not related to the takeover, does add to the drama of the situation by creating an (exaggerated) picture of a club in crisis and now possibly being rescued by a new owner. Regarding administration, you're of course correct that the club itself wasn't in danger but as you point out the club faced a real threat of a nine-point penalty if Kop Holdings became insolvent. Anyway, I support the blurb.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:01, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Changes in ownership of football clubs - whether successful (Man U) or mediocre (Liverpool) - happen all the time. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose, as a UK based football fan (and if Mkativerata thinks Liverpool are mediocre, he should considre the history of my lot). A change in ownership of a medium sized business is not ITN material. Professional sports clubs are to the business world what celebrities are to the human population: they gain media attention beyond their relevance or worth. Kevin McE (talk) 10:27, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The story has generated a huge amount of international interest for an event which is essentially irrelevant outside of English football. The football fans here in Barça country have been asking me what on Earth is going on with Liverpool. But the single paragraph in the Liverpool F.C. article doesn't even begin to explain the story. I'd find it hard to support without much more encyclopedic material, probaby as a separate article to avoid WP:UNDUE problems in the main club article. Physchim62 (talk) 11:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
My point precisely: it is essentially irrelevant outside of not only English football, but outside one English football club. Coverage is totally disproportionate to importance. This is essentially a business story, but because the business involved is in the football industry, its publicity is grossly inflated. Just like John Terry and Wayne Bridge's spat earlier this year (which luckily got nowhere near ITN, although it was all over the UK news and I suspect was featured elsewhere too) was essentially a domestic issue, but their profile lead to blanket coverage of it. Kevin McE (talk) 12:57, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose (trying to remain neutral!) - if the deal hadn't gone through I'd be all for putting this up (there wouldn't BE a Liverpool any longer) but since it has it's really just another day at the office. I imagine anyone not following Liverpool will not even notice anything has changed.  f o x  12:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. This has very much been in the international news all week, and for good reason, because while most other top clubs have indeed changed ownership/majority shareholding in the last few years, none has been done so in quite the hilarious farce like way this one has. And while all true English football fans know Liverpool are a spent force who have been dining out on past glories for decades, there are enough people around the world and in the media who still believe they are a top club, to justify this as an ITN entry on interest grounds alone. It might even educate a few Boston based Yanks about their owner's new toy which is about to drain their baseball budget. MickMacNee (talk) 13:13, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, even as a football fan, this is hardly an important event—I don't care how much coverage it gets. Agreeing with Kevin on that one. Nightw 13:59, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Football club changes ownership. Whoop-de-do. Nothing to see here. Modest Genius talk 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Comments like 'Coverage is disproportionate to importance' or 'no matter how much coverage it gets' seem to not be NPOV to me. Coverage is coverage; are we to judge people on being interested in something they shouldn't be interested in? One of ITN's criteria is stories of 'wide interest in WP's readers' and the takeover certainly meets that. It's relevant beyond LFC and English football and I know that because of the interest it's getting. Also, I see this kind of sports story far more interesting that the normal, routine stories of' x-competitor defeats y-competitor to win z-competition.' These stories are posted in ITN all the time and frankly many of them are of no great significance.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:23, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't follow your logic. What exactly is the significance of changing ownership, except that it changes their chance of winning one of those competitions? Because if the competitions aren't notable then the ownership certainly isn't. Modest Genius talk 16:02, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, I'd say the takeover is more significant that several lesser sports that get covered on ITN, for a start, many of which are only popular in one or a few countries while this event is being reported worldwide (in part because the club has fans worldwide). I would certainly agree that a change of ownership of a club itself is not particularly notable but LFC's takeover by NESV was a week-long drama that was reported intensely worldwide.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
If we cannot distinguish between the fact of coverage and the importance of the issue, we have no excuse not to post all sorts of celebrity and reality tv nonsense. I hope that Johnmsemlak is not suggesting that diswcussion on talk pages should be subject to NPOV rules: that would severely limit debate. Kevin McE (talk) 21:09, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it's fair to equate the sale of LFC to reality tv nonsense. It's a sports story--we cover sports on ITN all the time. IMO (though certainly others disagree) it's as notable as many previous sports stories posted. I'm not saying coverage should be a sole indicator of notability but coverage is perfectly valid evidence of interest in a story, and evidence of widespread coverage is often used by ITN contributers. I apologize for suggesting that NPOV not be allowed in debate, though I think it's reasonable to expect reasons for or against to be as NPOV as possible.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Cancer almost unheard of for 99.99999% of geological history

Mankind's number three killer is a post-Industrial Revolution disease – and that's not because of past lifespans.

(U. of Manchester, the Telegraph) (talk) 21:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Study based on negative evidence "suggests" cancer is a modern disease because even children get it nowadays? The scientific holes are huge - for instance, in the past childhood mortality from other causes was phenomenal - is it possible only very healthy children, unlikely to get cancer, survived other diseases. The headline claim is not an actual discovery, but an hypothesis.μηδείς (talk) 21:11, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. The study is based on studies of hundreds of remains as well as literature. This is pretty sensational. __meco (talk) 21:43, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Going on the press reports, this is pure sensationalism. If the direct quotations in the Daily Telegraph article are to be believed, then the study scientists don't even know much about the different causes of cancer; this leads me to doubt that their interpretation of mummified remains is objective. Even discounting my opinion on that point, the study is entirely based on negative evidence, which is a very weak basis for such a claim. Physchim62 (talk) 22:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
weak oppose the basic premise that "modern lifestyles" ( overeating, smoking, living longer, women having less number of babies etc) have led to a dramatic increase in cancer incidence is probably right. but comparing cancer rates in mummies to people is just junk science--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:46, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Ancient people usually died of something else before cancer could get them. How is this new or surprising? Seems to be attracting overinflated media attention that the study does not itself indulge in. Quoth the abstract: 'A striking rarity of malignancies in ancient physical remains might indicate that cancer was rare in antiquity'. Note the sober language and key 'might'. Modest Genius talk 15:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Ahmaedenijad wraps up visit to Lebanon

per the statement below which also had 2 supports vs. 1 oppose (excl. nom). Certainly notable, controversial, and newsworth in int'l coverage, particularly under the circumstances(Lihaas (talk) 07:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC));

Support I heard about it on the radio last night, so it is getting international coverage. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose very antagonistic move, but not an international incident or any other significance. Routine head of State to neighboring country and ally.There is some heat in the oven but the kitchen is not on fire The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:08, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose the visit itself was very routine and didn't lead to anything groundbreaking. No more important than a state visit by Obama, which I doubt would make it on ITN. --PlasmaTwa2 18:41, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per the two above me. It was just a state visit. Nothing came of it and Ahmaedenijad's sabre-rattling is nothing new. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The pope's visit to the UK went up, and that was far less controversial than this one.
And its not "routine" its a first like the Pope's with far more controversy in the circumstances of this year, exspecially. )see the first nom. below.(Lihaas (talk) 03:01, 16 October 2010 (UTC));

Support, the Pope was posted after all. There is lots of coverage in the international media. TIME seems to consider it an important event. Iranian media even uses the word "notable". --candlewicke 11:08, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

BBC - "Ahmadinejad's visit raises sectarian tension in Lebanon". That's from today. The trip is still being discussed. --candlewicke 14:48, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as per my reasoning on the previous nom (why has this been renominated?). Coming this to the pope is disingenuous. Modest Genius talk 15:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Why? Its far more notable, and more controversial, and like the pope's a first.Lihaas (talk) 03:01, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Because the pope's visit was primarily notable as the leader of a world religion, not simply a run-of-the-mill head-of-state visit. Modest Genius talk 19:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Then what is a "run-off-the-mill" visit, if this seems to be characterised as such?
Did you know the head of the Anglican Church travels abroad? He is in India right now. And the Aga Khan. And the Dalai Lama? I suppose these are not "run-off-the-mill" visits.(Lihaas (talk) 03:45, 18 October 2010 (UTC));

Gotthard base tunnel completed

After 14 years of construction, the drilling of the world's longest railroad tunnel, the Gotthard Base Tunnel in Switzerland, is completed. (BBC, Der Spiegel)  Sandstein  08:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Comment: Epochal feat of civil engineering. The articles and links will need to be updated once the tunnel is ceremonially completed this morning UTC.  Sandstein  08:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • The articles are now updated to reflect that the breakthrough has occurred, and the news item can now be posted.  Sandstein  13:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support we don't post this kind of thing often (the last time being the Wuhan-Guangzhou railway??) and it is an important achievement - especially if its the world's longest. PS as its Europe it should be railway not railroad :p. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:15, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, a new landmark (literally). In the interests of version neutral English, suggest simply use rail. Kevin McE (talk) 09:42, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Broken through now. Longest transport tunnel is more accurate, as 'rail' implies there might be a longer road tunnel out there. Although it would be good to keep the description as a railway tunnel in there aswell. MickMacNee (talk) 12:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Obvious. —bender235 (talk) 12:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. It doesn't open to traffic for another seven years. That is when its impact will be felt. __meco (talk) 13:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above. in 2017 must be posted. Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 13:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, the tunnel completion is a big story right now.  Sandstein  14:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • ITN is about what is in the news right now, so I really don't understand the oppose votes. By this logic we should post climate change news only after 2050, because that's when the major impact will be felt. Offliner (talk) 14:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. A big event and a world record. Offliner (talk) 14:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
support its a world record. we can post it again in 7 years when it opens. dont need to limit items that happen once in a decade... -- Ashish-g55 14:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted, though I used "railway" instead of "railroad" because that's what the article uses and BrEng is more common for European items. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:46, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
    Tweaked your blurb a bit. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:50, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Question: If a second bore is yet to be dug, has drilling really been completed? Modest Genius talk 15:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Mark Rutte

Mark Rutte is sworn in as prime minister of the Netherlands, leading a minority coalition of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy and the Christian Democratic Appeal, with the support of the Party for Freedom (source) – JamesBrownIsDead (talk) 07:36, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Did we cover the election on ITN? If not then support. But it may not warrant featuring it twice. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:56, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
On June 10, the plurality win of the VVD (People's Party for Freedom and Democracy) was featured in the In the news section [39]. But the fact that a minority government coalition of People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD) and Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA) is made possible with the support of the Party for Freedom (PVV) of Geert Wilders is newsworthy on its own. A support treaty was signed by VVD, CDA and PVV. Perhaps the hook should be phrased differently to reflect this. – JamesBrownIsDead (talk) 17:10, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. We posted the election (actually, I was the admin who posted it as it happens) and, correct me if I'm wrong, but, as far as I can see, this is just the result of the election. The only thing that seems to have happened is the haggling to form a working government, which is pretty routine when it comes to coalition governments which, in turn, are not uncommon in Europe. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:10, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The support treaty is controversial to some [40][41], not in the last place since PVV party leader Geert Wilders is currently being prosecuted for several counts of inciting hatred and discrimination against muslims: Trial of Geert Wilders. – James (talk) 22:18, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment Out of curiousity, has any inauguration or swearing in besides Obama been posted? Grsz11 22:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
In the past, we have routinely posted changes of head of government in parliamentary systems: the exact moment we post them has depended on the constitutional details of the country involved. I'm well aware that there's less enthusiasm for these "routine" politics stories now than in the past. I'll still support, because the Netherlands would qualify on most peoples definitions of an "important" country, and because of the time it has taken to form the government after the elections. Physchim62 (talk) 23:15, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
It's not a massive time period, it usually takes over a month. I'm neutral, because although we already featured the election and therefore would not normally post it, the Geert Wilders connection is attracting attention. Modest Genius talk 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

October 14

2010 Commonwealth Games

The games finished today. Should we post the closing ceremony? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:09, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, with Australia the medal leader in blurb. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, per the previous agreement that we would only post both opening & closing ceremonies for the olympics, and opening ceremonies only for the other major athletics events. Modest Genius talk 19:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per MG. --PlasmaTwa2 20:06, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, I would otherwise support, with this being the English Wikipedia and these games being pretty much *the Games* of the Anglosphere. But if there was a previous consensus, then I guess it's better not to post this one, and bring up the discussion again sometime before Glasgow. Nightw 03:27, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
A very large chunk of the Anglosphere disagrees. --Golbez (talk) 12:39, 15 October 2010 (UTD)
I think a large part of the Anglosphere that the games represent would agree that these games represent a lower class of competition than the Olympics and other events that are open to athletes from the world over. Oppose--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:45, 15 October 2010 (UTC)


United Nations announces it is "confident" that rinderpest, an extremely deadly cattle disease, has been eradictated, only the second virus in history, after smallpox, to have been. Formal announcement expected next year, but with this announcement, it's considered dead. The article is in reasonable, though not great, shape. Suggested blurb: "The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization announces that it believes rinderpest has been eradicted, the second virus in history, after smallpox, to have been eliminated by humans." C628 (talk) 15:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Support, although I would suggest the wording be altered as follows:
The Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) announces the likely eradication of the rinderpest virus.
  • Procedural Weak Oppose Not that i dont think this should be a headline but the rinderpest article as a rather nasty Expert tag on it and lack significant amount of sources for one its size The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 16:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Sounds significant, and I will take it on good faith that the international media is at least treating this with a significant level of interest, in the absence of supporting diffs. Blurb should probably mention it is related to measles. MickMacNee (talk) 16:15, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Most of what I used in the update was from the BBC, but there's also Voice of America, Guardian, Financial Times and UN. C628 (talk) 18:27, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Support for the story, but the article still needs some work doing on it. I'm not too worried about the expert tag, as there is no discussion of which section would cause problems (and the tag dates from 2008, so we're not going to get any from the original tagger). I think a good, sourced update would suffice to remove it. Physchim62 (talk) 18:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
If you ask me, a two-year-old drive-by tagging is a prime target for removal, but that's not to say the article is perfect. Still, a decent update with some good sources should be enough to dispose of the tag and post this and hopefully the exposure from being on ITN will motivate someone to work on it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I did write an update before I suggested it here; don't know if it's long enough, but it's something. C628 (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. Article looks reasonable enough, although it would have been nice if it was better-referenced. Fine to post as it is. Modest Genius talk 19:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Anton Abele

Anton Abele becomes Swedens youngest ever MP for the parliament. This is not the first time Abele is the focus of european media, he won an MTV Award in 2007 for his work against street violence. He also started a huge facebook group against street violence and gathered 10.000 people for a anti-street violence protest in Stockholm a few weeks after the death of Riccardo Campogiani. He was also mentioned during the Swedish kings annual speech. etc.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:42, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. A notable individual, but this is not ITN material in my opinion, especially as he only gained his seat indirectly under a party list system. Physchim62 (talk) 14:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I would not personally agree with that, this news is todays biggest news in Sweden. And a historic one as he is the youngest ever MP in the country.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:59, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The UK's first Green MP didn't go up, and the first Australian aboriginial member of their upper house didn't either IIRC, so what's different about this guy? 'todays biggest news in Sweden' is not very pursausive, there are quite a few English speaking nations here, and we obviously can't post all of their top stories of the day on ITN. MickMacNee (talk) 16:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
By that I guess you mean had it been an "english news story" it would have been perhaps more appropriate to have on ITN. Every news story on ITN cant be about english politicians or people overall och happenings.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:12, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, England is positively overun with Australian aboriginies. Send them back I say. They turk urrr jeerbs!! MickMacNee (talk) 16:17, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose From the source it appears he wasn't even elected, just appointed to fill a vacant spot. The young man is notable, but this isn't ITN-worthy. Grsz11 16:12, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not notable enough for ITN, but plenty notable enough for an article. Try DYK. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:15, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

October 13

Kyrgyzstan elections

Moved from future events by Cargoking with this edit

First Elections Democr since the over throw of the Government Results are announced[42][43] The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:51, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Ahmaedenijad visit to Lebanon

Amidst the global imbroglio concerning Iran, Mahmoud Ahmedenijad, who is no stranger to cotnroversy, visits Lebanon. botht he united States and israel have reacted adversely to the visit, as well as some sections of Lebanon with others responding very positively (both christian and muslims). Its a 2 days visit and he lands in the next few hours. Lebanon has been filled with controversy and doubts of stability recently which also add to the importance of this. It is not "just another bilateral visit" akin to clinton in bosnia or somethign of the sort. This also follows the 2010 Adaisseh incident. (blurb in the section above)

just landed(Lihaas (talk) 04:38, 13 October 2010 (UTC));
Absolutely an important event. Do we have an article? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:27, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the Lebanon–Iran relations page section that is linked inthe box above.Lihaas (talk) 04:38, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak support. I don't usually like this sort of foreign relations story, as I find visits between countries very routine. However, this particular visit is getting quite a bit of media attention around the world, so that would make makes it ITN-worthy for me if the background material and updated article are there. Physchim62 (talk) 14:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose, since this seems fairly run-of-the-mill, standard diplomatic condemnations. Modest Genius talk 21:30, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

October 12

Log Cabin Republicans v. United States of America

A federal judge has enjoined the Pentagon from kicking gay people out of the military. Although the final word on this matter is probably years away, this is the first time uncloseted gay people can serve in the U.S. military. This is currently the top non-Chilean-miner story in the U.S. media and throws another wrinkle into the upcoming elections. It should go without saying that a lot of readers are interested in this. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:44, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Neutral As much as I would like to post it I am leery about until it gets to the Sumpreme court The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 01:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
That might be years from now. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:16, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support A civil court granting an injunction against enforcing government policy seems a fairly rare thing to me, and the issue in hand is very widely reported around the world. Physchim62 (talk) 01:24, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. I don't know what will happen down the road; however, I think the nominal significance of overturning don't ask don't tell is worth recognizing. The article could use more than a one sentence update though. Dragons flight (talk) 01:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per Physchim. And sure, it may get to the Supreme Court, but an appeal by the Justice Department isn't guaranteed. And any potential SCOTUS case would be years from now. ~DC We Can Work It Out 01:49, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support no reason not to The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 01:53, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support The recent debates have gotten coverage worldwide. Per Physchim. Grsz11 02:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment the update should be sufficient now. Suggested blurb "A U.S. Federal judge orders the Defense Department to stop enforcing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy" ~DC We Can Work It Out 02:16, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. THe article looks good.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Blurb entirely unclear for those who have not been party to the ongoing case as to whether the blind eye will no longer be turned, or the prohibition on homosexuals in the armed forces is to lifted. Kevin McE (talk) 21:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Chile mining accident

The rescue process has begun, or will begin shortly. All the miners are expected to be rescued within hours. [44] Grsz11 21:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Support: It is a unique case of entrapment, survival, and (hopefully) rescue. Crnorizec (talk) 21:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
There was a discussion a few days ago: the consensus seems to be that we will post once the first miner is out (and the article has been updated to reflect this). Physchim62 (talk) 22:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support when the first one gets out, and we can re-write the blurb once the process is complete. ~DC We Can Work It Out 23:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support when first one is out The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 01:07, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
First rescuer is going down now, so it'll probably be an hour or so from now. Modest Genius talk 02:22, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
first one now out.©Geni 03:13, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Blurb? -- tariqabjotu 03:24, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Could someone link San José Mine in the Main Page? Diego Grez (talk) 04:09, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Been fixed (not by me). TFOWR 10:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Belated support. When this was previously discussed, I assumed that there would be a sizeable gap between the first and last miners being rescued, but at the rate the rescuing is going I'd be up for keeping this posted until the rescue is completed. TFOWR 10:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Was done before you even posted :p Modest Genius talk 01:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dutch Squatting Ban

Extended content

Dutch Squatting Ban <- main article

I'm disappointed at the week response here. Amsterdam has just had another confrontation of 800 people, one person ending up in hospital with a fractured skull and a demonstration of 600 in Nijmegen.

There are thousands of squatters in the Netherlands, and they have a long history there. The protests have been featured on mainstream news.BBC News AT5 MSNBC

Apart from the anarchist riot 1 week ago where people were fighting police, there's been protests everyday of about 1000 people.See Here for daily videos of protests. I think it's newsworthy to add an item to the front page saying like "Unrest continues in Amsterdam after a ban on squatting by a minority coalition of parties including the pro-business VVD and leader of the PPV, Geert Wilders as a means to combat immigration." Genjix (talk) 20:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

So are we now reaching the stage where we trade off one western European head injury against 40 eastern European deaths? It gets mainstream news coverage because there is a TV camera nearby, not because it has any great importance. Kevin McE (talk) 20:36, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Please do not re-add items which are already being discussed under another date. Simply bumping things up isn't going to make people change their mind; in fact it's rather counter-productive. Please continue discussion in the section below. Modest Genius talk 22:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Man Booker Prize

The winner of the 2010 Man Booker Prize is expected to be announced at about 20:45 UTC tonight. Prestigious award and not a subject we have a lot of on ITN. In fact, it's one of only three literary prizes listed on ITN/R. (BBC) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:34, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

... What's the point of the nomination if it's on ITN/R? :P  f o x  18:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Because everything is nominated here. That's what it says at ITN/R and WP:ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Yarly. Quoth ITNR: 'the relevant article(s) will still have to be updated appropriately and proposed on the candidates page before being posted.' Modest Genius talk 22:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
MotoGP champion is also listed there and hasn't been updated yet. Nergaal (talk) 19:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Will you drop the bloody stick and leave that horse the hell alone? I've done everything I possibly can for that nomination and simply because it's on ITN/R doesn't mean it magically goes up. There was no consensus last time I looked as to whether to post it now or at the end of the tournament. If you're that bothered about it, go to the talk page and try to drum up some interest like I did. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't get your point. Mine was a reply to Fox, giving an example how ITNR is not really useful in determining if the item goes up. Nergaal (talk) 02:59, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
  • And the winner is Howard Jacobson's The Finkler Question. I Support this btw, per the nom. It isn't a subject we have a lot of on ITN. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 20:49, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
    Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:10, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
    Would someone link to The Finkler Question? The article's just a stub, but the extra mainpage attention could lead to some growth. -M.Nelson (talk) 03:09, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

UN Security Council elections

Since we post so many elections, I thought this one would be of more notability than some of the national ones. Colombia, Germany, India and South Africa got elected. Nergaal (talk) 18:09, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Portugal too. Grsz11 18:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait until they take office. I know that's the other way around to most election items, but this is a special case. Modest Genius talk 22:35, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, then perhaps we could add it to ITN/R for January 1. New five start every year. Grsz11 00:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment: in the past, I think we've usually posted the election: there are plenty of similar events that happen on January 1, so I'm not sure it's a good idea to overload that date with politics. Physchim62 (talk) 01:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
IIRC we usually get very few stories over Christmas & New Year. Modest Genius talk 01:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 Marhanets train and bus collision

40 deaths (black day for Ukraine) R.I.P. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 13:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Domestic news of no international significane. MickMacNee (talk) 14:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Forty deaths might make it notable, but not notable enough for ITN unless it has some other claim to notbaility since such incidents are not really uncommon. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:05, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I think forty deaths is a fair amount and enough for ITN; I hardly think this is a commonplace occurrence.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment We posted the Petarukan train collision, with 36 deaths last week. Grsz11 16:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
On August 15, 2009 was posted 2009 Romanian bus-train collision with only 14 deaths AND President Viktor Yanukovych, on a visit to the region at the time, declared Wednesday a day of national mourning. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
The example cited by Grsz was the worst in the country for about 30 years if memory serves. That's the kind of thing that gives it enhanced notability over just a few deaths. While those deaths are tragic, I tend to think we rely too much on death toll as a measure of significance for incidents that are otherwise insignificant. Simion, is there something notable about his accident other than the number of people killed? If there is, I might support since the article is in reasonable shape. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Do we not know that this is the worst railway disaster in the history of Ukraine? I can't find evidence of a worse one.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:03, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I'd be amazed if that were even a remotely true stat, certainly not if we are not pretending that Ukraine did not have a railway system before indepenence. I would say we are closer to the 'worst since the last time' territory here. Domestic news. MickMacNee (talk) 17:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
per NPR "But officials said this was the deadliest auto accident in the country's history." (NPR). Hence Support.--Wikireader41 (talk) 17:49, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, but that source also says "Road and railway accidents are common in Ukraine, where the roads are in poor condition, vehicles are poorly maintained, and drivers and passengers routinely disregard safety and traffic rules." I'm standing by my oppose, at least for now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Then shouldn't the worst accident in a country with bad routes most certainly be posted? It would be different if we were talking about a couple of casualties. If we routinely saw Ukraine incidents here with a handful, dozen deaths, it would be different, and we could easily reject those. Grsz11 18:00, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
HJ Mitchell I don't understand your logic, I'm afraid. I think you meant to justify the posting of the Petarukan train crash by the fact that it was its country's worst accident in thirty years. Surely, the worst train disaster in Ukraine's history (now 19 years), with a similar death toll, merits inclusion by that logic.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Having looked in the archive, the only argument offered for posting the Petarukan train collision were variations of 'it was serious', 'worst since 1987', and 'these always get posted'. So, how about we ignore repetition of those types of arguments for this candidate as simply the classic example of a other crap was posted argument, and actually come up with an actual reason as to why a 'serious'/'most deadly since' type of road/rail crash is of significant and widespread enough international interest enough to post on the Main Page. Given the handwringing over this general issue going on on the talk page right now, it seems absurd to give these sorts of incidents the red carpet treatment. And btw, the Romanian crash item was posted with only two poeple arguing for it, one of whom was the nominator, so I think we can strike that as meaning anything. MickMacNee (talk) 18:34, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I objected to the lack of criteria on what makes this kind of deadly incidents notable some time ago. We had a similar accident involving a bus and a train in Slovakia, with 11 casualties, which made it in the ITN, for no other particular reason. So let us finish the discussion on this and come up with some more reliable guidelines. Otherwise, people get frustrated because it seems that geography, ethnicity, religion, and/or other unreasonable criteria contribute to the editorial policy... Crnorizec (talk) 22:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Weeak Support: as per the above and the criteria that we've had in place so far. Although, I agree that this is not a notable event. Crnorizec (talk) 22:09, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Neutral. In principle I think we have too many of this sort of incident, but we have indeed posted less-serious ones in the past. I agree with Crnorizec that we need better guidelines on such incidents. Modest Genius talk 22:36, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Support 2010 China rail crash was posted. As were other similar events. There are also significant casualties. A bombing in Pakistan with this many deaths would be posted even though they happen every few weeks. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support; worst road accident in Ukraine's history. C628 (talk) 00:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, given that this is the worst railway disaster in the history of Ukraine. Nightw 09:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
OK, so the appeal for some new arguments fell on deaf ears. Never mind. We can gloss over why this repeat posting of such tragedies is internationaly significant or worthy of a place on the Main Page I guess, pending a meta discussion. So, for reasons of clarity on this specific nom, has anyone actually cleared up whether it is the worst road accident in Ukraine's history, or the worst rail accident in Ukraine's history, or god forbid, both? Or does it even matter? Of course, being both wouldn't be that surprising, seeing as we seem to be taking the phrase 'Ukraine's history' literally. Where does that stop being a realistic measure btw? Ukraine is one of 12 mostly large states whose history only goes back 19 years, so how often do people really think this sort of stat is going to come up? Does it also have to be above a hard limit of death too? 10 people say? Not to mention the existence of even younger states like Slovakia (which has 3,662 km of railways btw). MickMacNee (talk) 14:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
My 2p worth - it's a road accident. Nobody on board the train appears to have been injured. Mjroots (talk) 14:49, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Salanoia durrelli

Interestingly, the tag on its talk page says A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on August 3, 2010. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Indeed. It's been on before. I vaguely remember posting it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
You remember rightly ;-) TFOWR 13:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The differences are hardly significant to its nearest known relative, different paw pads shape, jaw shape etc. I read it and thought, so what? The only news here is that unsurprisingly, there are still great big unexplored regions of this planet. And I'm sure others will too. Give me the discovery of a whole design of dinosaur anyday over this, save the living animal discoveries for sharks with laser beams attached to their heads. MickMacNee (talk) 14:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Kyrgyzstani parliamentary election, 2010

The first election since the constitutional referendum ad the uprising that overthrew the leadership (forcing the prez into exile in belarus) was won by a party that threatened to roll-back the the referendum and bring him back.Lihaas (talk) 03:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Already in.Lihaas (talk) 03:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I can't read the results site to verify reliability. Grsz11 03:55, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
[45] workign for me, its the official results. (iits not english lang. though).Lihaas (talk) 03:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait! It's certainly a notable development, but perhaps it'd be better to wait until they actually vote Bakiyev back in to power. Otunbaeva is still overseeing the government until the Prime Ministry is restored. So instead of posting these results and then posting the election of the PM, I think it's better to just post the latter. Nightw 13:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Futile Oppose. There's obviously no point, given the bizarre outcome of the recent poll on the talk page, but meh. It simply cannot be logically possible that Wikipedia considers the routine politics of a country like Kyrgyzstan is more worthy of notice to the front page readership than for example the first experimental observation of Hawking radiation, or any other item that just dissappears off this page for lack of affirmative action or even interest, whereas this election ticker stuff is given the red carpet treatment. I bet most readers have never even heard of Kyrgyzstan, let alone pick it out on a map, and anyone who have or could, will certainly know who Stephen Hawking is. MickMacNee (talk) 14:17, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that we were supposed to cater to the lowest common denominator. --Golbez (talk) 16:16, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
We aren't. Unless you think talking about Hawking radiation is an example of 'catering to the lowest common denominator.' MickMacNee (talk) 16:37, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, that's what confused me. We can expect people to figure out what that is, but geography is apparently more difficult? I would wager more people have heard of Kyrgyzstan than of Hawking radiation. You just said we shouldn't include Kyrgyzstan because 'most people can't even pick it out on the map', but if I went outside right now and asked everyone I saw what they thought of Hawking radiation, they would not know what I was talking about. Same could apply to Kyrgyzstan. Which is why we don't do things here based on the Jaywalking test, we do them based on other factors. So my main complaint was your assertion that, because many people won't know what Kyrgyzstan is, based on that alone we shouldn't post it, when that ran counter to your example of Hawking radiation. You say it cannot be logically possible, I question your logic. --Golbez (talk) 16:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
(And note that I'm not supporting this, while I would have supported Hawking radiation; however, I took issue with your statement) --Golbez (talk) 16:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
My point is more accurately put as: Who has heard of Stephen Hawking/Kyrgyzstan, and who can place Kyrgyzstan on a map/tell you what Hawking radiation is. Two different levels, but both demonstrate the relative differences. MickMacNee (talk) 17:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Oppose per MM. Considering that now we stopped posting the champion in MotoGP I have no idea why Kyrghistan should be up there. Nergaal (talk) 15:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Wow, is that what the world has come to? Some guy riding a motorcycle is more important than a national election? Besides which, nobody has said we're not posting the MotoGP winner, so don't imply otherwise. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support pending a full update. The article looks good so far, and the election resulted in a change of government, hardly 'routine politics'. And Kyrgyzstan is a decent sized country, it's not like this is San Marino.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:55, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Changes of government through elections is very much an example of routine politics, assuming even that the electoral organisation in this former Soviet republic is not corrupt/incompetent. Changes in government through revolution is non-routine politics. MickMacNee (talk) 17:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Strongest possible oppose I struck down my oppose and changed it to this. Kyrgyzstan is not a notable country by any measure: 5mil population means is outside top 100; location: Asian steppe; resources: gas only. As for motorcycling, I am going to assume that since I am the only vote yet, that one will probably not get posted before it will get bumped off due to the age of the news. Nergaal (talk) 18:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support its getting alot of Foreign press thus notable. We do to little stories in that corner of the worldThe Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
No need for support, on ITNR. Article looks in good shape. There's really no reason not to post this. Modest Genius talk 22:42, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support it's not a city state and central Asia is under-represented in the world's media. Hawking radiation should have been posted too and I'd be OK if this election wasn't on ITN/R. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support; I don't really see how whether we posted some other articles should influence the decision on this one. (For what it's worth, I'd prefer we had posted Hawking radiation, too.) —Nightstallion 08:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment: I'd like to point out that editors slapping random "strongest possible oppose" votes when they unadmittedly don't know anything about this item, and bringing up entirely unrelated items (i.e., Motor racing, Stephen Hawking) to cite as precedents for why this one should not be posted, is unproductive and incredibly juvenile. Get over it.
For the uneducated, this is a remarkable election from a state that has been without a constitutional government for 6 months since a coup d'état that we posted on ITN. That coup has been overturned by a democratic vote—that's not "routine politics" by any definition.
Regardless of any of that, the story is receiving wide international coverage and elections are on WP:ITN/R. So opposing is meaningless, unless there are any special considerations to take into account. In this case, as I said above, what should be considered is whether to post it now, or when a Prime Minister is re-elected. Until then, the interim government is still in power. Nightw 09:01, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
You do know what the word 'futile' means right? I mean, I may or may not be 'uneducated', but I'm pretty sure I know my words and stuff. It's a protest vote, 'get over it'. MickMacNee (talk) 13:53, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
My comment was not directed at you alone. But your "protest vote" was made with obviously no prior knowledge of the item in question—as you blindly argued that this was "routine politics"—and was therefore ill-placed. Nightw 14:18, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
I was aware of it, not least because it is in the nominator's rationale. But the fact of the matter is, we already posted the coup, and this blurb is still a routine election posting, coup or no coup, which is why everybody is invoking ITN/R. MickMacNee (talk) 17:07, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
at least two of the above supports (as well as the one below) don't invoke ITN/R (and in my case I reject ITN/R for this item.) -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:13, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

The article seems ready and there's plenty of support, plus its ITNR. I'd like that there are significant international repercussions here. Kyrgyzstan hosts a NATO base for operations in Afghanistan. A change of government in Kyrgyzstan will certainly have a bearing on that base's future. --Johnsemlak (talk) 17:18, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Anyone care to suggest a blurb? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
"Ata-Zhurt win a plurality in the Kyrgyzstan parliamentary election amidst campaigns to roll back the new constitution."Lihaas (talk) 00:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Embryonic stem cells

Support, significant science/medicine news. Article is good too. Modest Genius talk 22:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Large article update, and the rest of article describes all the basics well. Suggestion: "Cells created from embryonic stem cells are administered to humans in a clinical trial for the first time." Narayanese (talk) 16:22, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
This could do with getting posted soon, or it risks falling off the bottom. Modest Genius talk 17:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment any admin care to post this. 3 supports ( including nom) no opposes.--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:06, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 West Papua floods

  • This disaster has received little coverage due to the remote location, but unfortunately the aftermath seems to be getting worse. Scanlan (talk) 00:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Pity support. Hundreds dead. Short article, but this can be enough considering some of the updates being added on other articles are "quite" short themselves. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:27, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Support: acknowledge the importance of the event, reject the mass media criteria of whether there was a TV crew available to film it. Kevin McE (talk) 18:24, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
The article says the disaster happened on the 6th, which would be much too late to post now even if the article were in good enough shape. It could get on if we had a blurb reflecting a more recent and the article were expanded and updated. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

October 11

Death of Linda Norgrove

Oppose Announcing a Probe is significant but not quite ITN, If it comes back with a significant findings (If it comes back with anything at all) then we might bring it up again. Beurcratic probes happen frequently on all different levels so this is procedure and not surprisingThe Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. The outcome of the investigation might (or might not) change U.S. tactics in hostage rescues, but won't have much of an effect on public policy in general. Physchim62 (talk) 00:51, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose A civilian killed in a war zone. Not uncommon whatsoever. Grsz11 04:11, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Neutral/weak oppose. While this probably isn't significant enough for ITN, it's not exactly run of the mill, either. There have been public statements from the British PM and foreign secretary and a two-star American general is leading the investigation, so it's clearly being taken seriously on a diplomatic level. Probably notable, but not enough for ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait. I think the findings of any official investigation will be easily ITN worthy. MickMacNee (talk) 14:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Agree with MicMacNee.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - the oppose side claims that this not an uncommon scenario. But in fact it is, how many other aid workers in the last 6 months have recieved this extensive coverage not only by english media but by worldwide media. To say oppose on the grouns that its not uncommon what happened to Linda and the aftermath of it is simply not true.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait to see what the outcome of the investigation is. Modest Genius talk 22:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Joan Sutherland dies

She appears at WP:LILP. Extensive worldwide news coverage already Google news/ BBC. Short paragraph about her death added to article. BencherliteTalk 15:39, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Support. Per her inclusion at WP:LILP and she was a legend who had a big impact on the opera world. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 18:52, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Absolute support. Not an Opera lover but certainly know who she was. Signifcant figures in the arts. - 220.101 talk\Contribs 19:32, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Only notable for Australians. Here in the UK we haven't heard any news on her at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Genjix (talkcontribs) 23:25, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose she was 83; the article says She had been in poor health since a fall. Nothing surprising, and we've had much bigger names who died without getting on the ITN. Nergaal (talk) 19:44, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:52, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support front page at Yahoo. Top stories in BBC, etc. Secret account 19:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Notable people dying is why we have recent deaths. Her death isn't significant, despite the coverage it has received. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:55, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
We had Norman Wisdom death on the front page, and his death didn't bring Yahoo front page attention. Secret account 20:04, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. Her death is getting widespread international attention, and we have a good biography of her. Physchim62 (talk) 20:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
The article is excellent, and she certainly seems to meet the death criteria for ITN (leader in her field of expertise).--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support. Everyone with an article is notable, and I agree we shouldn't post every notable person's death. But this transcends that: she was a leader in her field, an international icon. I'd expect Kiri Te Kanawa's death to be posted; this is no different. TFOWR 20:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Anyone care to expand (and possibly rewrite) the information on here death? The rest of the article looks like it could do with tidying up, but the two sentences about her death read much like a news release. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:34, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I've had a go. Does it need a bit more? - JuneGloom07 Talk? 20:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Seems to be highly influential woman in Opera. Just because her death is not shocking does not mean we should not put her here. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:05, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Strong Support Look at what Pavarotti said about her etc. And they said this when she was in fine form, so it wasn't just puffery as part of the condolence. per TFOWR, Johnsemlak, physchim YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:13, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Aftermath of the 2008 Greek riots

  • A Greek policeman was convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment for the shooting of 15-year-old Alexandros Grigoropoulos in Athens that sparked the 2008 Greek riots. [46] I would say it is significant enough for ITN... --BorgQueen (talk) 12:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Neutral. I thought about nominating this when I saw it, because the riots were big (and ITN-featured), but there was something that didn't quite click with me. Is it significant as a follow-up to something that happened two years ago? A policeman convicted of murder seems a bit routine to me – every country has a police force (often several), and no country has found the perfect method to exclude the brutal elements that are attracted by the power they could wield over their fellow citizens (some countries don't bother to try, but that's another story, and it's not Greece). And it seems normal that a policeman who murders, where that can be proven, should be treated the same as any other murderer (i.e., harshly). I'm fine on posting or not, especially as it it getting a respectable amount of coverage, but its only borderline for me as a follow-up story. Physchim62 (talk) 00:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. The riots were notable, but the conviction of one policeman is far less so. Modest Genius talk 22:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences

The articles need at very least one citation. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
As announced on the official web site (Nobel Simeonovski (talk) 11:30, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I said the articles, not this nomination page. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:36, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
All three articles could do with an update, as well - they all mention the Nobel Prize in the lead, but there's very little else. I'll take a look at Christopher A. Pissarides now, if someone wants to take on one or tweo of the others? TFOWR 11:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
The articles would be in a better shape as soon as possible. The link I've cited above should be the best until other reports with a prose within will be announced.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

The updates are made, just to insert photos.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:03, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Updates look fine to me. If no one beats me to it I'll post shortly. Suggested blurb (Kiril Simeonovski's, tweaked slightly):
Leaving out nationalities for brevity - is that wise? TFOWR 12:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Nationalities would make it less concise for the reader.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm also going to leave out the recipients middle initials (I've further tweaked the blurb, above). TFOWR 12:52, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
It's OK. I intend the point of the report rather than such decorative items. Could you please post it?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:04, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. TFOWR 13:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

VSS Enterprise

Since there weren't enough space news lately, I thought World's first commercial spacecraft completes manned flight could be worth putting up. Nergaal (talk) 10:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Support Wow, incredible news and a potential big step for the whole of mankind. Genjix (talk) 20:19, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
The event is significant, but the article is a stub. At the very least we need some more information on this flight and the article should explain why this is a significant event. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:37, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I have expanded it a bit. Nergaal (talk) 21:47, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
That's much better. Any more support for this? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:39, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm afraid not. Mine's an oppose. We have a would-be spacecraft gliding at 45,000 feet: interesting proof-of-principle, but not ITN for me. Physchim62 (talk) 01:03, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm also opposed. This is a precursor to SpaceShipTwo, which will take passengers up starting next year and glide from 80,000 feet. That will be news. The Enterprise just went a few thousand feet above commercial jetliners [47]. Not news.--Chaser (talk) 02:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. As I've said every time one of these Virgin Galactic items turns up, we should wait for the first suborbital flight (unless there's some disaster). A run-of-the-mill test flight, which breaks no new ground, doesn't cut it. Modest Genius talk 22:49, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Jorge Lorenzo is now the MotoGP World Champion

HE has secured the WC now YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 04:50, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

The what? Links, details, please? Grsz11 04:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
motor racing YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 04:55, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I think he was asking for rather more detail than that. Not a great interest of mine, but Jorge Lorenzo of Spain clinches the World Grand Prix motorcycle racing championship with three events remaining. Probably needs some prose though Kevin McE (talk) 07:21, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Isn't this ITN/R? Nergaal (talk) 10:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • The blurb is nice, though "clinched" may be a little POV for the MP. The article is in reasonable shape, but the stuff on this event needs tidying up, sourcing and possibly expanding a little. Also, should we post today or when the tournament ends? And FWiW, more detailed nominations have a better chance of getting up because people understand what's being nominated. Nominators shouldn;t assume that everyone knows what they're talking about. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:43, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Spanish rider Jorge Lorenzo becomes 2010 World Grand Prix motorcycle racing champion. How is this? Nergaal (talk) 21:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
The blurb works for me. I don't think we've yet established a consensus for this kind of event though—the question is whether we should post it now or at the conclusion of the tournament. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:44, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Well the rally driving was posted last weekend on the basis of the title being won, rather than the series being concluded. Kevin McE (talk) 23:51, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Winning is the important part. It is less important when the season ends. Anyways, in championships, the winners are usually awarded the trophy when they clinch it, not at the end of the championship. Nergaal (talk) 03:08, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support posting now. ITNR item. Modest Genius talk 22:51, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I could do without this being posted frankly. Motor racing as eight annual events on ITNR--that seems like a bit much.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:25, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
And marathons only have 5 items per year (and the current one got posted without a nom). Nergaal (talk) 03:02, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
NASCAR should be booted then. All the races are in the US except a few in Canada. YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 06:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
That would leave 7 events annually still. I really think F1 is the only motor sport I'd support unreservedly.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:09, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support posting now - Not sure what the issue is. The championship is won when it is no longer mathematically possible for the championship leader to be overtaken. Waiting till the season ends would be a very odd thing to do, because the news would be old by then... --Daviessimo (talk) 05:35, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Support posting now per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Futile Oppose. 8 events is just way too much motorsport on ITN, and this is far less important than some of the others. Courcelles 21:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 FIVB Men's World Championship

  • Brazil defeats Cuba to win the 2010 FIVB Men's World Championship.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 00:58, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
That article is really long for something with only one sentence of prose in it. Modest Genius talk 01:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support Neutral Google world volleyball and that competition comes first. Seems newsworthy, although I don't know much on this topic. Genjix (talk) 01:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not enough reader interest. In order to keep ITN from becoming a sports ticker, only sports items of widespread reader interest should be posted. Volleyball is not a major spectator sport in any country with a lot of English Wikipedia readers. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Good point. Changing my POV to no view as I don't know enough on the matter. Genjix (talk) 05:18, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Support World Championship of a genuinely international, established, professional sport. Show me where interest to Anglophones features in our criteria. Surely ITN exists to generate reader interest in the articles, not merely to service pre-existent interest. If I already knew all about the event and wanted to look up info on it, I would not access it via the Main page. If all we do is repeat what the vast majority of readers will come across in their mainstream mass media, what is the point of ITN? Kevin McE (talk) 07:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment. I can't see the article being posted without quite a bit more prose: at the moment, it is a single sentence with lots of tables. Physchim62 (talk) 09:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Agree with Physchim--let's not debate this too hotly until the article's up to scratch.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:59, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Working on it, but I don't have too much free time right now. Grsz11 14:15, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Read the first sentence of the criteria: "The In the news (ITN) section on the Main Page serves to showcase articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest to the encyclopaedia's readers." There may be countries where volleyball is a major spectator sport -- I don't know of any, but they may exist. But those countries, if they do exist, don't make up a large enough chunk of the English Wikipedia's readers to meet this criterion. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 15:03, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I'll admit that I wasn't aware of that: it was changed in January without any prior discussion, and fundamentally changes the thrust of ITN. I'll be raising it at WT:ITN immediately, because it is pointless, IMHO, to have a ITN section that simply mimics the content of mainstream news. Kevin McE (talk) 21:37, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I agree volleyball isn't of major interest. Secret account 20:01, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I think we need to consider that lack of hype doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest or lack of significance. Volleyball may not be a popular spectator sport to put on ESPN, but it is a very widely played sport globally and in all English-speaking countries. Knowledge of the game and its rules is commonplace. It's not like Cricket or American Football where many readers don't even know the sport's rules. Given the prominence of the sport, I think it's reasonable to post the world championship of volleyball, which is played once every four years. That's not too much volleyball for ITN (en. or otherwise). We're discussing posting up to 5 marathons annually on ITN, I think we can post one men's volleyball result every four years. I certainly think this is more significant than say, the no hitter thrown a few days ago, even if it get's less press coverage in certain quarters. So I'll happily post my support, assuming the article is expanded.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The article contains next to no prose, neither the nomination nor the article explain the significance of the tournament and we have had a lot of sport on ITN lately, with even more being discussed elsewhere on this page. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Whole lot more interesting than chess or Aussie football. A widely contested championship (almost everybody has a team, even if they aren't that good). U.S. finished sixth, Australia was one of the 24 competitors, Cameroon advanced to the second round. <---English speakers. Grsz11 21:50, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Oh, Canada and Puerto Rico played too. Grsz11 22:05, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
      • But that's the thing -- the U.S. played in this tournament, yet 99.5 out of 100 Americans probably had no idea it was going on! Volleyball is indeed a major participatory sport, but it is not a major spectator sport, thus relatively few people (in our readership) are interested in it compared to, say, American football, which has far fewer participants but far more fans. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support considering we posted Aussie football, this should go up as it has more viewership (volleyball is also the most widely played sport at amateur level). Nergaal (talk) 21:56, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
    • But Aussie footy is big down there. Voleyball, to the best of my knowledge, is widely played, but not "big" anywhere. Is there anywhere that it's as big as football is in Europe or American "football", baseball or even ice hockey or basketball are in North America? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
      • But we post tons of mariginal sports. Where is chess widely popular as a spectator sport? That is the argument now isn't it? Grsz11 02:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
        • Take a look at the ITNR and you will see that there are plenty of sports with limited notoriety in general. Yes, Gaelic football is big, but who cares outside a few people in Ireland? Being a champion in volleyball is more prestigious than winning the trophy in gaelic football. Nergaal (talk) 03:10, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
          • That's why I've called for a reassessment of ITN/R sports items on the project talk page. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
            • Is a sport that has professional leagues in 25 countries marginal? If top players can earn $300k pa plus endorsements, there must be a fair few paying spectators. Kevin McE (talk) 06:37, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
              • I agree with Kevin, it's ridiculous to say volleyball's world championship might not be of wide interest to WP viewers just because it's not on cable tv in the US. Also, this is the one time in four years that men's volleyball will be featured on ITN. That's hardly overkill for a a pretty major team sport. All this said, the article still needs some expansion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
                • If the article is improved, I might switch to neutral or even weak support, but until then, I'm still opposed. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:38, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
                  • The article is improving. There's now three lead paragraphs, a paragraph about the final, and a number of references.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:42, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Any comments on this after addition of prose and references? Grsz11 19:50, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Support, highest level of the sport, seems reasonably well-followed. Article has now been brought up to scratch. Probably should be on ITNR. Modest Genius talk 22:53, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment Enough support to post? Grsz11 21:54, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

October 10