This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

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Hossein Amir-Abdollahian in 2023
Hossein Amir-Abdollahian

Glossary edit

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Headers edit

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Archives edit

May 25 edit


(Closed) Canonisation of Carlo Acutis edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Carlo Acutis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Carlo Acutis is canonised by Pope Francis, becoming the first millennial saint recognised by the Catholic Church (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Pope Francis recognises a second miracle attributed to Carlo Acutis and canonises him as the first millennial saint in the Catholic Church
Alternative blurb II: ​ Pope Francis starts the canonisation process to recognise Carlo Acutis as the first millennial saint
News source(s): Reuters,
Credits:
The first millennial saint made news worldwide, I'm more than happy to agree to any changes of the wording but I think this is newsworthy for ITN. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:05, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think we should at least wait till he is officially canonized, as far as I understand, process has just started and the ceremony will take place later. Also, have we ever posted a canonization story before? PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We posted Pope John Paul II's in 2014. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This is notable for being the first millennial, but has Acutis actually been canonised? It does not seem like it. Looking through the archives, the canonisations of the Martyrs of Otranto and Laura Montoya (first canonisations of Francis), Francisco and Jacinta Marto, Marie-Alphonsine Danil Ghattas, and Mariam Baouardy were not posted; canonisations of Mother Theresa, John XXIII, and John Paul II were posted. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 07:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Classicwiki: I believe that the Pope just started the process by recognising the second miracle and that's why I worded ALT2 to cover that eventuality because I knew there might be a discussion about the correct wording/tense for it. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'll 100% support this once it actually happens. That's what we did for John Paul II in 2014. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:03, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability but wait until canonisation has occurred, as per above. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 11:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 24 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections


(Posted) Enga landslide edit

Article: 2024 Enga landslide (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 100 people are killed in a landslide in Papua New Guinea's Enga Province. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 100 people are killed and 3,000 more remain buried by a landslide in Papua New Guinea's Enga Province.
Alternative blurb II: ​ At least four people are killed and three thousand presumed buried by a landslide in Papua New Guinea's Enga Province.
News source(s): ABC, Papua New Guinea Post-Courier, RNZ
Credits:

May want to wait until the death toll is a bit more settled (and the article lengthened), but reports are suggesting at least 100–300 and potentially up to 1,000 people were killed. The Kip (contribs) 17:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, mainly due to the high death toll. Quake1234 (talk) 17:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If 3,000 are still buried, it's "potentially up to" 3,000 dead. Maybe a source doesn't say it, but people need air to live. Do any sources say 100 are confirmed dead? If not, neither should a blurb. Leaning Wait here. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article is reasonably sourced, probably will get longer as the search for survivors continues. As long as the blurb uses "at least X" where X is the confirmed number of dead or missing, we're good - updates to that number can be made per request at ERRORS. --Masem (t) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability and quality. I'm not opposed to waiting a little while, but this is an incredibly rural area -- it's hard to say how long it will be before there's an accurate death toll. Estreyeria (talk) 18:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks good and 3,000 buried is a huge toll. Tragic event. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for grave loss of life. Hyperbolick (talk) 20:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - article looks decent enough for posting. BabbaQ (talk) 20:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major disaster, definitely noteworthy. Hope the death toll is lower than feared. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 21:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: , this has been marked ready for around seven hours - anyone willing to post? The Kip (contribs) 03:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll look into it. Schwede66 03:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted I'm surprised that nobody here commented on the article's lead; it was a complete mess. I had to rewrite that so that the original hook (which I've chosen) has any resemblance to what the lead says. It sounds like we'll be updating this item frequently as more info becomes available. Schwede66 03:41, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm more surprised that Wikipedia turned one hundred feared, presumed and suspected deaths into actual deaths. This wasn't good enough for one duck last May nor OK for one militant leader three Mays ago. A shitty lead is relatively normal. Still, though, thanks for cleaning it up. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Stephen for cleaning that up. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:04, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kabosu (dog) edit

Article: Kabosu (dog) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News, BBC, NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The dog behind the Doge meme. No doubt famous enough but I'm not sure if the target article is problematic for RD because the subject is the meme. There's a section about the dog. Johndavies837 (talk) 07:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support the section about Kabosu can probably pass GNG if split off into its own article. Juxlos (talk) 08:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a biographical wikiarticle on the deceased dog? I think we need that for RD purposes. --PFHLai (talk) 08:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose due to lack of a separate article. That's the basic bar to clear for RD. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:15, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Splitting out into Kabosu (dog). – robertsky (talk) 08:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Adjusted target article to Kabosu (dog) from Doge_(meme)#Origin_and_pronunciation. – robertsky (talk) 08:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks @– robertsky. Looks good now. Johndavies837 (talk) 09:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very notable dog and meme in the internet community, no need to elaborate further. RIP GodzillamanRor (talk) 08:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – robertsky (talk) 09:10, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I can't help thinking that if we had a person who was only notable for their face appearing in a famous meme, we wouldn't have an article per WP:BLP1E but they would have been mentioned at the article about the meme instead. No doubt I'll be proved wrong on this because of the amount of total trivia that finds its way into WP, but technically we shouldn't. IAR, but I think this would have been fine to post with a link to the meme (when it contained the dog bio). Black Kite (talk) 09:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • My concern too. The notability of the dog is just barely there, yet all of the content of that article, within context of the Doge meme, is wholly appropriate there. It would be far better for not having a standalone article. Given that the coverage of the death has been covered in major sources (I've added the BBC and NYTimes articles), its clear that a mention at RD is appropriate, even if the section about the dog was religated to a section of the Doge meme page. Remember that RD doesn't require a separate article, that's only one of the conditions that we look for to automatically consider for an RD, but we're not bound to post an RD that doesn't have a separate article. --Masem (t) 12:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    David Brandt comes to mind. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very famous dog. Almost everyone knows doge meme. Charles Dong (talk) 12:32, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I wish everyone was a doge. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:10, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Safe travels doge. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 14:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the very similar case of Balltze was originally written by me with the dog's real name, then it was moved in discussion to Cheems, the dog's internet meme personality. I said I supported that move as long as the page was structured and categorised as if it were talking about a meme. There is honestly no need for two articles as they're symbiotic of each other - the meme could not exist without the dog nor would the dog be anything without the meme. Unknown Temptation (talk) 14:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's a dog not a person. Harizotoh9 (talk) 15:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:ITNRD: An individual human, animal or other biological organism that has recently died may have an entry in the recent deaths SWinxy (talk) 15:34, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So the only person not covered by ITN is the Magpie River (Quebec). InedibleHulk (talk) 15:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    One has to remember that the ITNRD standard is only establishing an automatic guideline to quickly pass RDs as long as quality is met. Other "deaths" absolutely can be considered but they don't have the simple RD test, and significance or appropriateness will need to be debated in addition to quality. So should a major body of water completely vanish due to global warming or some other means, it would seem reasonable to argue a possible RD (though depending, a blurb might be better). I think editors are more comformable with "death" being attributed to when a living biological thing ceases to be, rather than a metaphorical death (such as the proverbial death of Twitter with the recent changes to domains at X.com), but we should not be blind to where such cases may merit being in the RD line. Just that it will take a bit more debate to judge significance. — Masem (t) 16:37, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No worries, it's not a major body and will outrun us all, thanks to its protective lawmakers! InedibleHulk (talk) 16:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Whanganui River seems to also be legally a person. 115.188.127.196 (talk) 10:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks good, adequate coverage and everything looks to be fine. Ornithoptera (talk) 15:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The ITNRD is explicit that individuals with an article are automatically eligible for RD. This dog did not have an article until today, and is really only notable for 1 event so probably shouldn't have one. The split out into a separate article was done in good faith, but I view it as not correct and we should never be changing article structures out of the blue just to satisfy ITN rules. I don't think we should post this unless it's as a blurb.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This wasn't automatic, though, the humans decided it manually (and 18 is old for a dog, so you know how I'll vote). InedibleHulk (talk) 15:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Having a separate standalone article is only a criteria to quickly allow for an ITNRD, but an RD is not required to have one. Masem (t) 16:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Kabosu was clearly a very important dog, definitely passes GNG. Rest in peace. Di (they-them) (talk) 15:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Muboshgu (talk) 15:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 23 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: Ángeles Flórez Peón "Maricuela" edit

Article: Ángeles Flórez Peón (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El País
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Considered the last female socialist militant and, apparently, one of the last of the veterans of the Spanish Civil War. Her article is not long, but I think it is long enough to be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Caleb Carr edit

Article: Caleb Carr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Well known American author. The article needs some work but is not in dreadful shape. (The Alienist may be the best work of historical fiction I've ever read.) Ad Orientem (talk) 21:15, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as the nominator said, article needs some work. Publication section needs more sourcing and the career sections needs to be divided into multiple subsections. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Ready) RD: Morgan Spurlock edit

Article: Morgan Spurlock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, LA Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American documentary filmmaker and television producer. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 15:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support given his critical acclaim on his documentaries. Lunsel (talk) 15:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: the lack of sources across various sections is a concern, but he's definitely notable enough, and the article is generally in good shape. Oltrepier (talk) 16:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Super Size me was huge at the time, it was nominated for an Academy Award, and it actually impacted the fast food industry. Harizotoh9 (talk) 18:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've made improvements to the article's sourcing, and it no longer has any citation needed tags. Anyone else is free to make improvements to the article. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still a couple CN tags and the tables at the bottom are completely unsourced.-Ad Orientem (talk) 01:46, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TDKR Chicago 101 and @Ad Orientem, I cited most of the table. Give the article a look now. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 06:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support There's still ten unsourced entries in the filmography section, but overall the article quality has improved. Support Three unsourced listings in filmography should make the article good enough for posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support No more CN tags (having assisted a little myself) and the article looks in good shape. Looks ready for Lord Morgan Spurlock to run on ITN. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 06:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support filmography section still needs few more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:40, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 22 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports


RD: Darryl Hickman edit

Article: Darryl Hickman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American actor.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:33, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose filmography is unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:41, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Charlie Colin edit

Article: Charlie Colin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, BBC
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Founding member of Train. 240F:7A:6253:1:9055:DE03:C73E:1FC (talk) 16:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose-the article cited unreliable sources WANGYIFAN2024 (talk) 04:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
':Oppose-As an American musician, there is not enough information about him, and I think it is difficult to consider it a popular topic.Choisieon11:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The popularity of the topic isn't a criterion for RD. It's a biographical article that's not a stub, so if it was in appropriate condition to post, it should be posted at RD. However, as noted above, it's not currently in that condition. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose two major orange tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:42, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

San Pedro Garza García stage collapse edit

Article: San Pedro Garza García stage collapse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least nine people are killed and sixty are injured in a stage collapse in San Pedro Garza García, Nuevo León, Mexico (Post)
News source(s): El País
Credits:
Oppose, tragic accident but no lasting notability. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 06:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – There's not much here, and I don't expect expanding the article will bring it to a level worth featuring. It's a tragedy that only really impacts the lives of the people involved directly. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. Estreyeria (talk) 15:57, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose literally just a bad accident and while there were deaths, something that really won't have any long term effects. Type of this were shouldn't be rushing to create articles for much less feature in ITN. Masem (t) 16:56, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. The Kip (contribs) 20:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: How is this any different than any of the other crowd crushes, stampedes, nightclub fires, etc. that have been posted to ITN?  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 21:55, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Crushes and stampede usually have a lengthy investigation that determines the causes and steps to prevent in future.
      However, unless it's a major fire like the Grenfell building, most single commercial building fires like the nightclub one are not likely going to have a long term impact if coverage, and should not have been posted, much less have a standalone article, until proven otherwise. — Masem (t) 22:03, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I heard on BBC News that Mexico has started an investigation. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Case in point, I nominated a Turkish nightclub fire that killed about 30 construction workers and it failed to gain much traction to post. The Kip (contribs) 04:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • It isn't, and they shouldn't have been posted either. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 13:34, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- really? We posted that stabbing in Australia that killed fewer people, and will have less of an effect than this will. If this happened in an Anglophone country we'd post it immediately. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 02:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Neither should have been posted, and, although we could say that a stabbing being intentional makes it slightly more newsworthy, that was still minor news that shouldn't have been posted either. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 13:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- It seems to be a serious accident because there were not a few deaths and many injuries in this case. I think this news is appropriate to alert people to prevent such a sad event from happening again. -- Ckdduq0919 04:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support --This accident, which has resulted in many casualties, is a cause for concern not only locally but also around the world, and should be a warning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jzhdylb (talkcontribs) 04:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose--I don't think it is necessary to write articles about small-scale accidents.--SU YIQI (talk) 05:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support--I think it is necessary to appropriately select some smaller-scale articles, such as accidents, because the occurrence of accidents serves as a warning and prevention.--Yangpeifu (talk) 05:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the job of Wikipedia in general, or ITN in particular, to provide warnings or prevention. (I find it curious that we have three users giving this as a rationale, which isn't usually brought up at all.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The last four votes above appear to all be from students of the same professor's courses (User:Hanyangprofessor2), which might explain the connection. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 21:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:NEWSEVENT, "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths... – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." See also Singapore Airlines Flight 321 which got much more coverage here but also seems quite routine. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose tragic accident but it does not appear to have any long lasting impact. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:49, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: David Wilkie (swimmer) edit

Article: David Wilkie (swimmer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Recognition of Palestine by Ireland, Norway and Spain edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: International recognition of the State of Palestine (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The governments of Norway, Ireland, and Spain announce they will recognise the State of Palestine as a sovereign state. In response, Israel recalls several of its ambassadors to these countries. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC News). (The Journal)
Credits:
Taken from Current Events of May 22. Most European countries (especially within the EU) do not recognise Palestine so this is pretty significant. LynxesDesmond 🐈 (talk) 10:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: this is certainly getting media attention, but they've only announced their intentions and won't actually recognise the state until 28 May. I'm undecided as to whether that would be a better time to post. Regardless, the article needs prose updates. Modest Genius talk 11:04, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until official recognition on May 28, then support. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 11:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per WP:CRYSTAL as said nations may change their mind in the coming week. Plus the article has quite a few citation needed tags and isn't ready for ITN yet. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 11:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks like this will likely need to be re-nominated in six days when it actually happens. Hopefully time to improve the list! ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 11:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Minor aspect of the whole Gaza situation. --Masem (t) 11:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until official recognition as per Chaotic Enby. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 12:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until May 28 when the official recognition happens, then support. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 12:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I remember we posted the Arab-Israel normalization agreements that were part of the Abraham Accords, but I believe the Israel-Sudan agreement was not posted. So the question would be whether these recognitions have the same degree of relevance as the Abraham Accords. Scaramouche33 (talk) 15:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose minor event, not formal enough Ion.want.uu (talk) 16:23, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for May 28, then support per above. The recognition by 3 countries simultaneously with Israel's recall of ambassadors is significant enough. Brandmeistertalk 17:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the 28th per WP:CRYSTAL. I'm undecided on notability for now - I slightly lean oppose, though, as these are neither the first European/EU (most of eastern Europe) nor the first "western" (Sweden, Iceland) states to do so. The Kip (contribs) 18:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Per above, as the recognitions haven't happened yet, and notability is a bit iffy. But will reconsider on May 28. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:23, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Artificial Intelligence Act edit

Article: Artificial Intelligence Act (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The European Union passes its Artificial Intelligence Act which will register and restrict AIs with high and unacceptable risk levels. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The European Union passes the Artificial Intelligence Act, to regulate artificial intelligence it regards as being risky
Alternative blurb II: ​ EU approves landmark Artificial Intelligence Act
News source(s): CNBC, DW, Reuters,
Credits:

Article updated

In December, it was agreed to post this when the Act was passed and the Council of Ministers has now done this. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support as per original consensus. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as agreed originally. James Tamim (talk) 09:05, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per previous consensus. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 09:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, per nom. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 10:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. Jusdafax (talk) 10:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, as per above Luna Wagner (talk) 10:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, the article is in good shape and I have no objection to the previous consensus. I've added an altblurb with links to extra context. Modest Genius talk 11:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but neither blurb seems to capture larger facets of what the law does and impacts, though I'm not sure what else could be said in a concise manner, as its more about restricting AI but also its use by the govt. --Masem (t) 12:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I asked Google's Gemini to "Please suggest an ITN blurb for Wikipedia about the passing of the Artificial Intelligence Act by the Council of Ministers". Its response was

    EU approves landmark Artificial Intelligence Act
    The Council of Ministers has given final approval to the European Union's Artificial Intelligence Act, the first comprehensive legislation of its kind in the world. The Act aims to regulate AI based on its potential risk, with stricter rules for applications that pose a higher risk to society. It is expected to enter into force after publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.

    Andrew🐉(talk) 12:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It would be incredibly ironic if we used an AI generated title for an article about AI regulation. Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is very much not a good blurb, being both too long and not specific enough in the information it conveys. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 12:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Such generative AIs tend to be too verbose but its headline is quite succinct and to the point. I'll add it as an ALT. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Entirely unsuitable. Modest Genius talk 13:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Its headline is less verbose, but entirely uninformative. Blurbs are not headlines, and for good reason: we want to inform the reader in a self-contained way, not grab their attention to have them read a longer blurb/article behind. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 13:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps it's something like "The AI Act, which regulates security and transparency requirements for AI models based on their risk level, passes the EU." Masem (t) 13:23, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose what? sorry i spend hours doomscrolling every day and this is the first time im hearing about this which implies to me anyway that this is unimportant/self-aggrandizing Kasperquickly (talk) 13:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean that it is completely unimportant. Please also look at the explanation that the nom gave for nominating this for ITN. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 14:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Completely silly with practically no real-world impact. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 15:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as previously agreed Ion.want.uu (talk) 16:24, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per all above. The Kip (contribs) 18:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important and as mentioned per above, a landmark in artificial intellegence legislation and technology as a whole Normalman101 (talk) 19:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article highlights the significance of this bill and also landmark event in terms of AI and technology. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Will tweak the blurb a bit. --Tone 19:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pull. This has no relevance whatsoever. It's not on the front page of BBC Europe (https://www.bbc.com/news/world/europe), RFE (https://www.rferl.org/), RTE (https://www.rte.ie/news/), FAZ (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/), DW (https://www.dw.com/en/europe/s-1433), nor Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/). This seems like a completely minor event and barely worthy of a blurb. And besides, such a law has no immediate significance anyway like a law on gay marriage or something so prescient. This was a mistake to post. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that maybe some news sources dont emphasize this doesn't mean that it's unimportant, but the fact that basically no news source that I could think of that covers Europe is even announcing it even on the margins of their front page, shows you there is a broad consensus that this is not that prescient and important to emphasize. This event is, essentially, not actually in the news. If anything, it's dwarfed by NVIDIA's earnings report yesterday. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, 'prescient' is the wrong word - I meant 'salient'. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:13, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This hasn't even been mentioned in the EU's Featured News section (https://european-union.europa.eu/news-and-events/news-and-stories_en). This clearly isn't even a big deal to the EU. It does appear on (currently) the third page of "Latest news from EU institutions and bodies" (https://european-union.europa.eu/news-and-events/press-releases_en?page=2) - but when you go to the linked EDPS (European Data Protection Supervisor)'s website, you find it's not even the most important thing to that department: https://www.edps.europa.eu/_en. Basically, it's not even, in any sense relevant to an "In the News" wikipedia section, in the news coming directly from the EU authorities. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:12, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Never mind what outside news coverage looks like, our own article doesn't give any indication that there's anything at all significant about this legislation. The fact that the "Reactions" section looks like this tells me that either this is simply not notable on a Main Page level or that our article is severely lacking in explaining why it in fact is. Either way, it should not be in ITN at this stage. I would also disagree with the characterization of the previous discussion as "agree[ment] to post this when the Act was passed" - only one person active in that discussion said we should definitely post it if it passes, two said some version of we should discuss again if it does, and everyone else just vaguely said "wait." -Elmer Clark (talk) 03:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The contents of the article are well established. and as per above.
Hkm5420 (talk) 04:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull per above. Whatever the deal back in December, this isn't in the news now, it does not really seem like a major story.  — Amakuru (talk) 06:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Meh Seems like a classic case of mob mentality, based on nothing but collective suspicion of this being the right thing to do. Objectively, though, it was eight in a row, then four in a row, interrupted only by a meager double. By my count and understanding of nominations, the Ayes have it. As a subjectively honest man, though, misleading people with a false premise this way feels like cheating. There's no rule against it, though, so no reason to disqualify what's done (maybe just don't let it happen again?). InedibleHulk (talk) 10:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 21 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime


RD: Gordon Bell edit

Article: Gordon Bell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ars Tech
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

major contributor to early mainframe computer development and established the computer history museum. Death was on 17tg but only announced on 21st. Article missing lots of references. Masem (t) 13:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oppose Your article has a lot of unsubstantiated material and quotes in it, and most of the content in the article is unsourced. CHENG SHIYI (talk) 05:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Paul Parkman edit

Article: Paul Parkman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American physician who helped develop the rubella vaccine. ForsythiaJo (talk) 00:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Relatively short but meets minimum standards. SpencerT•C 02:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on quality. A good, short article. BD2412 T 15:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Milei-Sánchez diplomatic crisis edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Argentina–Spain relations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Prime Minister of Spain Pedro Sánchez removes its ambassador from Argentina after a diplomatic crisis with president Javier Milei. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
The dispute itself is almost irrelevant (Sanchez says X about Milei, Milei says Y about Sanchez, and it goes on like that) but it has escalated quickly. Cambalachero (talk) 19:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment what are the precedents for posting diplomatic feuds? IIRC, the Ecuador-Mexico dispute wasn't posted despite the high escalation to breaking into an embassy. Nor was Colombia cutting off from Israel posted, as that was seen as just another page in the Middle Eastern conflict. Those examples also show this is far from the most dramatic news in South American diplomacy this year. Unknown Temptation (talk) 22:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Ecuador-Mexico was posted: [1] Natg 19 (talk) 00:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose minor squabble between world leaders, unlikely to escalate further. Natg 19 (talk) 00:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Natg 19. starship.paint (RUN) 09:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Decent paragraph describing the events, but there's just not much here, just a removal of an ambassador. Even Milei says he doesn't want international relations to sour over this matter. I personally wouldn't expect significant long-term impact. It could be a domino in the chain of events, but it's not a particularly big one. If for example Spain releases advice for Spanish nationals to leave Argentina en masse, then we'd suddenly be at an entirely different scale. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 11:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Natg. The Kip (contribs) 18:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Natg. In response to Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez's dismissal of his ambassador to Argentina following a dispute with Argentine President Javier Milei, I don't think it rises to the level of larger national relations. Moreover, the person concerned has also stated that he does not want the matter to affect relations between countries. So I think that this element is of relatively low importance.Zhuo1221 (talk) 04:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Opposition. The impact of the incident is not enough, although the replacement of personnel will not escalate to affect international relations.Liangyiqiao2004 (talk) 05:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Jan A. P. Kaczmarek edit

Article: Jan A. P. Kaczmarek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood, Variety
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Polish composer. 240F:7A:6253:1:F9E2:9586:9635:4621 (talk) 16:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose upon review - lots of uncited material, and one of the sources doesn't seem to support what it's cited for. The Kip (contribs) 19:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - There is unreferenced word. Jiyoon Leee (talk) 04:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sharkey Ward edit

Article: Sharkey Ward (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

"Rear-Admiral Sandy Woodward said that if Ward had not disobeyed orders, Britain would have lost the Falklands Islands"

— The Times

Andrew🐉(talk) 16:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose A lot of unsourced material in there. Unknown-Tree🌲? (talk) 17:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as the vast majority of the article is unsourced. The Kip (contribs) 18:49, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as the article is not in a suitable state. Andrew, it's not necessary to demonstrate importance for RDs, as I think you know. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article seemingly largely written by the man himself. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose .This article does not qualify as WP:ITNQUALITY because he has no confirmation of death from a reliable source and according to the commenters' consensus, the article is not of sufficient quality to be posted on the homepage. Hhhlx (talk) 04:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, the article has massive quality issues, but:
he has no confirmation of death from a reliable source
Huh? The obituary is from The Times, which is considered reliable. The Kip (contribs) 17:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeThe article is good, but there are too few quotes to support the truth of the articleAYAO32269 (talk) 04:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 20 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: Karl-Heinz Schnellinger edit

Article: Karl-Heinz Schnellinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Gazzetta dello Sport, Il Post, Die Zeit, Süddeutsche Zeitung, The Times of India
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

A pretty well-known name for Italian and German football fans, he was mainly notable for being one of the few players who featured in four FIFA World Cups, as well as the man who managed to score his only international goal in the so-called "Game of the Century". Oltrepier (talk) 20:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Article is in good shape. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 18:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Needs references for Honors and in club career section. SpencerT•C 01:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Democratic Republic of the Congo coup attempt edit

Article: 2024 Democratic Republic of the Congo coup attempt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A coup d'état by the United Congolese Party was foiled in the Democratic Republic of the Congo resulting in the death of the party's founder and leader Christian Malanga. (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated

Part of the wider recent African coup belt, an attempted coup by the United Congolese Party was foiled, resulting in the party's leader Christian Malanga being killed, as well as American and British mercenaries being detained. Scu ba (talk) 23:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose seems to be been a pretty quick/open-and-shut event of limited scale, likely not resulting in a lot of long-term consequences. The Kip (contribs) 00:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per The Kip, but this does qualify Christian Malanga for an RD at minimum. --Masem (t) 00:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom, per TK above. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this obviously doesn't happen often & is big news nationally, and I am troubled by the idea that "if it didn't succeed, then it's not worth posting" above. Banedon (talk) 02:23, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    this obviously doesn't happen often
    See Coup Belt - this is the 16th attempted coup in the region since 2020. It unfortunately has become rather common. The Kip (contribs) 02:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From that link I can see this is the first attempted coup in Congo, so unless you amend the definition of "coup belt" to include Congo, this is not common. Banedon (talk) 03:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The map, sure, but the article notes that the "Coup Belt" region is commonly defined as both west and central Africa. The Kip (contribs) 03:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article also lists seven countries in the infobox, none of which include Congo. Are you defining "coup belt" to be all countries in Western and Central Africa now, regardless of whether they've had any coups in the past? Banedon (talk) 03:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait on RD I scanned the story for "would", "-wards" and "wever", found one. It's better now (as is a common noun). But the level of tagbombing and plausible misinformation down there could (currently) make a grown historian cry. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And by story, I mean all the crap in Christian Malanga exclusively. An altblurb without that attached might do. No promises, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Banedon. Since we posted 2016 Turkish coup attempt, which also seemed also rather flash-in-the-pan, then it seems like we ought to post this. The DRC/Zaire has had its share of problems over the years, but coups there are rare and this is still a major issue and has been covered internationally. A decent enough article at first glance too.  — Amakuru (talk) 06:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That was 8 years ago. Just because we posted something similar once doesn't mean we must always do so for ever more. Also, the Turkish one lasted much longer, with more casualties, in more locations, involving more participants etc. etc. -- KTC (talk) 07:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - flash in the pan. A non-successful coup attempt can be significant enough to post, but there's bearly anything here. A guy got a few dozens people with him and attempted an arm intrusion in a couple of places that were quickly foiled, and got killed in the process. The army wasn't with him, the police wasn't with him, ... It was over before people even woke up. -- KTC (talk) 07:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This was so feeble that it seems that it was either a delusional gamble or it was instigated by an agent provocateur to prop up Tshisekedi's shaky regime. As the DRC has had ongoing armed conflict for years, killing thousands and displacing millions, this incident needs more clarity and context. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:51, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't understands how this was anymore feeble than Trump's Capitol storming attempt. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait on RD, oppose coup post unfortunately too common in the Western and central African reigons, and the attempted coup happened very briefly. We very rarely post coup attempts and only when they are significant. Move to SNOW close. Ion.want.uu (talk) 18:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    in no way this is a WP:SNOW given there are several support votes and the discussion is still ongoing. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Any coup attempts is notable for ITN as long as the article is in good shape, which it is in this case. I think with the fact that a major party leader in the nation was also killed in the coup attempt also makes it a bit different than the others in my book. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He wasn't a major party leader in the nation, for the most part. He lived in America. The UCP never won a seat, even there. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. Minor attack which fizzled out before posing any serious threat to the government. Most media attention seems to be focussing on the fact that three plotters were dual US citizens, not the implications for the DRC or regional politics. Admittedly there were deaths on both sides, hence only a weak !vote. Modest Genius talk 11:19, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's well organized according to the order of progress. However, one source says incorrect(reference 2), so it needs to be corrected.
Hkm5420 (talk) 04:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ivan Boesky edit

Article: Ivan Boesky (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The original 1980s Wall Street super villain. "Greed is good." Unusually, I think the article is in fairly decent shape. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Only as short as it needs to be, with no glaringly apparent lies; he was 87. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • PostedBagumba (talk) 15:48, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fernando Martínez Castellano edit

Article: Fernando Martínez Castellano (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Las Provincias
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Coincidentally, I created this article very recently to complete the navbox of mayors of Valencia, having put it off for a while due to a lack of accessible sources. Not a very long article (the man served for a few months then disappeared from public life) but not a stub. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Pretty bare bones, but basically adequate. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Short but sufficient. Source spot-check checks out. Curbon7 (talk) 03:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Source for birth year already in article ([2]) but can be better cited. Curbon7 (talk) 03:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom and supports. Jusdafax (talk) 08:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Ks0stm (TCGE) 08:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jean-Claude Gaudin edit

Article: Jean-Claude Gaudin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former mayor of Marseilles. Currently translating parts from French Wikipedia to have a more complete article. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 10:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bishkek riots edit

Article: 2024 Bishkek riots (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 29 foreign students, mainly from SWANA and South Asia, were injured in riots by an ethnic Kyrgyz mob in the Bishkek capital of Kyrgyzstan. (Post)
News source(s): CBS News, DW, Arab News, RFE/RL, ET,
Credits:

 Ainty Painty (talk) 05:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for the same reason I opposed posting the mobbing of the plane that arrived in Dagestan, Russia from Israel. I don't think these events meet a notability threshold until people get killed or unless governments support them. And yes, I'd say the same if this happened in the USA or UK. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Unknown Temptation - these appear to be rather limited in scale, impact, and therefore notability. The Kip 20:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I would argue that large scale race riots are a rare and notable occurance with large social and geo-political consequences. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 19 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports



[ATTENTION REQUIRED] RD: Peder Falk edit

Article: Peder Falk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3], [4]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

RD: James L. Greenfield edit

Article: James L. Greenfield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 23:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oppose Your article has a lot of unsubstantiated material and quotes in it, and most of the content in the article is unsourced. WYRRRR (talk) 05:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 PGA Championship edit

Article: 2024 PGA Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the PGA Championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the PGA Championship while setting a major tournament scoring record.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Altblurb if we want to highlight the major scoring record, although I know conventionally we tend to simply state the winner of these events. rawmustard (talk) 13:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not ready. The article is almost entirely tables, with far too little prose to feature on the main page. The 'criteria' section is also a confusing and poorly-formatted mess. Needs substantial work before it could be posted. Modest Genius talk 14:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose like most golf articles, spends too much time confusing readers about qualification criteria, and not enough prose about the event. As such, completely incomprehensible to a mainstream audience. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:14, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose barely any prose. The Kip 20:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support when ready, but Oppose for bad article and lack of organization in it Sharrdx (talk) 16:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article contains too many complex details and table contents, which may only arouse the interest of specific audiences and be difficult to understand.TMXX0818 (talk) 04:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Otto edit

Article: Jim Otto (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): TimeNew York Times
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs Work.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2023–24 Premier League edit

Article: 2023–24 Premier League (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Manchester City, the defending champions, win their fourth consecutive Premier League title. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Manchester City win their fourth consecutive Premier League title.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In association football, Manchester City win the Premier League.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In association football, the Premier League season concludes with Manchester City as champions.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Man City win the Premier League.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Updated with ITNR=yes as this is ITNR. Also added alt1, as "defending champions" is clear from them winning consecutive titles. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 17:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As per usual with these season articles, not enough prose. Which is understandable as they've evolved over a year. Black Kite (talk) 17:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't forget when making blurbs to actually include the article in question in bold. --Masem (t) 17:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment: should they not be called "Manchester City F.C."? 86.181.130.175 (talk) 19:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No. WP:COMMONNAME is "Manchester City". Black Kite (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But it is true that people that don't know association football that that's refering to the Football Club and not the city. We don't say "Kansas City won the Super Bowl" even though those into gridiron football know exactly what is meant. — Masem (t) 20:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, totes dude. How about: "English soccer club Manchester City F.C. win their fourth consecutive Premier League title. 86.181.130.175 (talk) 20:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Absolutely. ITN is currently explaining New Caledonia ("a territory of France in the Pacific") and Fico ("the prime minister of Slovakia"): a country-specific sports club deserves at least the same treatment. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We definitely do not say soccer when describing an association football club outside North America. -- KTC (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Or Australia. But it's definitely not used for a UK story. We usually say "In association football, Manchester City win ..." Black Kite (talk) 09:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's why we say "In association football ..." I'm pretty sure that people aren't going to confuse a city and a football club, especially as the city isn't called "Manchester City" either. Black Kite (talk) 09:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As long as there's the "In association football" qualifier, we don't need to include the F.C. - it's a given that it's a football team. The Kip 20:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added alt2 based on previous year. -- KTC (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt2 article appears ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Summary section looks like WP:PROSELINE but that'll definitely not prevent this from being posted. There is no update on the final day though; the last update was about Brighton firing their manager, and Aston Villa being better than Manchester United (LOL). Howard the Duck (talk) 09:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready. The article is a bit underwhelming - mostly tables - but the 'summary' section does have enough prose to meet our minimum requirements. However it has not been updated to reflect the final outcome, with only the lead (and table) bothering to explain who won! That should be an easy fix. I've also added alt3, which follows our normal style; note that 'English' is not part of the league's name. Modest Genius talk 12:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There has been little improvement to the article in the last 24 hours, still not ready. Modest Genius talk 11:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt2 when ready As said before article is underwhelming but it's a good nomination. Sharrdx (talk) 13:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Raisi helicopter accident edit

Article: 2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  In Iran, a helicopter crashes carrying president Ebrahim Raisi and foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A helicopter carrying president Ebrahim Raisi and foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian crashes near Varzaqan in northwestern Iran.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Iran, a helicopter carrying president Ebrahim Raisi, foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, provincial governor-general Malek Rahmati, religious leader Mohammad Ali Ale-Hashem, and 5 other individuals crashes near Varzaqan, killing all on board; Mohammad Mokhber succeeds Raisi as president in an acting capacity.[citation needed]
Alternative blurb III: Mohammad Mokhber becomes the acting[citation needed] president of Iran after a helicopter crash kills president Ebrahim Raisi, foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, and seven others.
News source(s): NYT, AP News, CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominating since, even if they survive, the equivalent story in the U.S. would be notable enough to post. Davey2116 (talk) 14:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

if a helicopter carrying the PM of russia crashed it would be in ITN Lukt64 (talk) 14:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until Raisi's definitive condition is known. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 15:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, so we can have a consensus to post asap. Of course the story (and blurb) should be updated once we have more information, but it is already newsworthy as is. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 15:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a very major news, although the status of the Iranian president isn't confirmed yet GodzillamanRor (talk) 15:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it is currently on headlines Shadow4dark (talk) 15:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support A world leader may have just died, and is at least critically injured. Bremps... 15:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until we really (and officially) know what state the Iranian president is in. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:34, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Regardless of the outcome of the crash, reliable sources are reporting a potentially fatal accident involving a world leader has occurred. Would we wait to see if President Biden was reported deceased in a helicopter crash? Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, we would wait if that occurred. ITN is not a breaking news ticker, we want to report the best statement about a story so we wait. — Masem (t) 15:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is a very big news story. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This will be notable regardless of the outcome. Johndavies837 (talk) 15:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support obviously notable enough to post right now Bedivere (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Of course it's going to be notable but I don't feel like it is up to spec to be on the front page right now. Wikipedia is not BBC or NBC. It is an encyclopedia and articles need to look like it. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 15:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support iff death of Raisi confirmed. Mjroots (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd say the airplane crash would still be ITN-worthy if the foreign minister died, or if the President were injured. Bremps... 16:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait the details are unclear and this blurb is therefore ridiculously vague. Give it 12 hours and more information about the crash. Then and only then will a sensible blurb be able to be written. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. C'mon gang. We know nothing here. If no one is dead this really ISN'T notable. Maybe someone is. But there really is no reason not to wait. If a high ranking figure in the Iranian government has died it will remain notable, I guarantee that. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - Doesn't matter whether he dies or not, a plane crashing with a head of state in it is definitely notable enough Abo Yemen 16:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for now, Support if there are confirmed deaths Personisinsterest (talk) 16:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until we have some confirmed details. Nigej (talk) 16:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for further details, per above. The Kip 17:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support once his fate is known Braganza (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - it's possible it could take a long time for his helicopter to be found under current conditions, meaning that if we wait until we know what state he is in, it could take many hours. The event is still ongoing even if he hasn't yet been found. GreatBritant (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait we need more details, as what people have said above.
TomMasterRealTALK 18:03, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support - For those saying 'once confirmed', I think it'll be too late. Iran has already suspended aerial operation due to the deteriorating weather, and rescue workers are saying that even if they somehow find the alive, the situation there is so bad they will really struggle to take them out.
Also the scale or impact of this crash is, in my opinion, comparatively massive; Iran is already preparing for Mohammad Mokhber to take charge.
Also to those who are saying 'not notable until somebody dies'- Fico isn't dead, then why was his news of being shot was in the blurb? Because he was (or still is) in the corner of the death (secondly, but firstly the incident was a shooting). If we compare, this may be not like that but the severity of this accident is now open and Raisi's whereabout is now totally unknown.
Another thing is, the accident also involved Foreign Minister Amir-Abdollahian and other senior officials, and as Iran is definitely passing a time with large gaps in the administration for a significant amount of time. Last but not least, it's about Iran. As the recent events in the Middleast unfolded, this type of incident is obviously notable and impactful. Zeeshan Y Tariq (talk) 18:06, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Obviously notable" - the bigger issue is that this is still breaking news and information is changing rapidly (re. Grauniad live blog just saying there has been contact with a pilot and a passenger, indicating this is probably not an 100% fatalities crash)... If this just turns out to have been a "hard landing" as was claimed initially, it wont have any lasting impact or notability (since thats not temporary). 2605:B100:D42:8915:E9E1:90FC:668F:7128 (talk) 18:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For your kind information the Red Crescent has said that there is no sign life in the copter.
Also just like I said, if the US President was missing for 1 hour I'm pretty sure it would've been included in the blurb. Raisi was already feared dead, and even no fatalities is caused a helicopter disappearance including the President, FM, Governors of a country like Iran is obviously obviously notable and I still adhere to my point. Zeeshan Y Tariq (talk) 03:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support—It's extremely notable (arguably, it's more notable than the Wagner Group plane crash and we put that in ITN almost immediately); plus, since there are have intergovernmental organizations preparing to provide support to locate the helicopter (or what's left of it), the fact that a head of state was involved in a "hard landing" incident is definitely something be mentioned in the ITN section. - MateoFrayo (talk) 18:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's pretty clear the president is dead, listening to Al-Jazeera - who said they couldn't report this, without further confirmation but it's extremely grim news. Nfitz (talk) 18:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but wait till we have a clearer picture of what's happened. This is Paul (talk) 18:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now as with Fico we do not need to know everything regarding the outcome of an incident to post it. Blurbs can be updated if needed. The crash is the major international news story right now. —LukeSurl t c 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. And altblurb respectfully submitted (if Sunak's chopper were to go down, we'd give the name of nearest village in Surrey; ditto Marine One and the relevant unincorporated town in Nevada). Moscow Mule (talk) 20:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I like the altblurb, but having "Iran" only be all the way at the end might not be optimal. Although I don't see a clean way to have it before without repeating – using the province name East Azerbaijan would be more confusing and/or need Iran to be mentioned again. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 20:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right? Had it been any other province (other than West Azerbaijan, of course)... Maybe gloss him as "Iranian president", to get the reference to the country in sooner? Moscow Mule (talk) 21:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've also now updated the image. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose We need to know whether he's alive. Oppose if he lived. Schierbecker (talk) 22:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Such an event (an helicopter crash involving a current president) is very uncommon. Dead or alive, this is definitely notable. Bedivere (talk) 22:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He's been "missing" now for about 18 hours. Even if he's fine, then this is notable. When was the last time a world-leader went missing after an air-crash? Though given the various reports and imagery - he's clearly dead. Nfitz (talk) 22:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no policy basis for not posting just because one aspect of it is unknown. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull The latest BBC bulletin (23:32) says,

    World awaits more information from Iranian authorities (Sebastian Usher)
    The difficulty with reporting on an incident like this in Iran is that we are reliant on information being released by a number of semi-official news agencies.
    Those agencies don’t always speak with exactly the same voice. You will see officials quoted, but quite often those officials will be at odds in what they say.
    What we haven’t had, beyond some general reassurances from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, is a clear statement from the authorities of what they know in black and white.

    In the case of the Prigozhin crash, we waited about a day to post because of similar uncertainty. Per WP:RUMOR, "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation, rumors, or presumptions." Andrew🐉(talk) 22:37, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We didn't post any of the uncertain information, just that the helicopter crashed, which no one actually doubts. The fate of people inside it is unknown, and that's why we haven't included it in the blurb. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 22:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN is governed by the policy that says it "serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest." The blurb posting does that. WP:RUMOR is about the article itself, which is not in obvious violation of that guideline. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's half the guidelines for ITN (there is no ITN policy). The other half is article quality, of which an accident where the fates of the passengers are unknown is generally not yet of the quality due to the lack of missing information, even if everything up to date is sourced. Its why we generally wait for some type of finality on various topics before posting them. Even with the nature of one of the passengers being a very high level country official. That's why ITN is repeated stated not to be a news ticker. Masem (t) 00:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I stand by my comment. The line I quoted is the first sentence of WP:ITN and the most important one. The "quality" aspect is in the third paragraph. And the term "news ticker" does not show up at all. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    All three points must be met for posting, not a selective choice. — Masem (t) 01:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I cannot see how this makes logical sense, given the third contention ("news ticker") is not even mentioned in the guideline. As for point two, just because a situation has unknowns does not equate to an article about the situation being low "quality." And the actual guideline says "based on a consensus... using two main criteria," so I'm not sure where the idea that "all three points must be met" is coming from. - Fuzheado | Talk 01:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:RUMOR is about Wikipedia as a whole. See also WP:NOTNEWS which states that "breaking news should not be emphasized". Andrew🐉(talk) 07:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is a very selective quoting of WP:NOTNEWS. That fragment is in the context of "enduring notability of persons and events" and is not general advice about excluding breaking news content simply because it is breaking news. In fact, when you consider the full sentence it reads quite differently and says: "breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information," which changes the meaning quite a bit. - Fuzheado | Talk 11:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem with breaking news is that it's likely to be wrong. And that's what happened here. Yesterday, we blurbed nine deaths and today we are blurbing eight. This is not a miracle; it was an error. Per the iron triangle, "Good, fast, cheap. Choose two." Andrew🐉(talk) 08:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that I've tidied up the Hossein Amir-Abdollahian bio in case this is upgraded to a death, for which we would presumably bold that article. There was a whole bunch of uncited info in a list plus an orange tag; I've hidden the uncited content. I suggest that the Ebrahim Raisi bio is good enough should a bold link be required; there are three "citation needed" tags. Again, if there are concerns about that, we could instead hide the uncited content. Schwede66 23:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support Presumably if Joe Biden was in an aircraft that crashed, it would be posted (and likely very quickly), regardless of whether or not he survived. I don't see why it should be any different just because this crash relates to the president of another country. Chrisclear (talk) 03:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Death of someone who is/was current head of government is worthy of a blurb. Chrisclear (talk) 06:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now we have CNN reporting no survivors [5], and now is the appropriate time to post. We want until we have a result like this, not questions about the state of the survivors, regardless of country. --Masem (t) 03:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Iranian media is reporting no survivors, though now the Red Crescent has reported that information as well. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it were just Iranian media, we'd likely be a bit caution due to state media issues. CNN reporting what Iranian media are stating is far cleaner for this purpose. Masem (t) 03:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand your concern, Masem. We never questioned the state of survivors; we reported that a helicopter crashed with a president and foreign minister on board. Schwede66 03:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are capable of communicating uncertainty in blurbs, as are the reliable sources that ITN theoretically tracks with. Moreover, there's no criterion in WP:ITNSIGNIF that says all questions need to be answered before a blurb is posted. I would love if people at ITN could stop making up their own personal criteria (unique to each person!) and instead either go by the written standards, make a proposal to change them, and/or accept that IAR is a thing that applies to ITN like every other area of the project. Ed [talk] [OMT] 05:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We've had unspoken standards that have been challenged by newer editors to the ITNR process not by proposed changes but aspects like this. Our basis in the past is to wait until we have a firm understanding from RSes about a topic, and not when the primary issue at play was still hanginig in the air for a short period. — Masem (t) 12:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the standard you'd like to see, please propose adding it to ITNSIGNIF. Otherwise, it's not something ITN is bound by.
Also, per Schwede66 we did have a "firm understanding" of the topic here: a helicopter carrying a sitting president crashed. That is a story in and of itself. That we didn't know if that president was dead doesn't mean we didn't have enough to post. Same goes for posting Titan (submersible) before we knew if there were survivors, or for posting the attempted Wagner Group coup while it was in motion. Ed [talk] [OMT] 15:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is a very big news story.Iranian President Raisi has been confirmed dead. There are not many photos from the scene, and rescuers have said that some bodies are so badly burned they are unrecognizable. However, this is also strange—three helicopters were flying, but only this one crashed. If the weather was so bad, who insisted on taking off? Kikolipu (talk) 04:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RD and succession edit
  • Edit blurb to mention death since this now doubles as an RD — Knightoftheswords 03:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We might want to discuss an appropriate blurb first. Schwede66 03:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've been keeping an eye on this, anticipating that this would become a death blurb. But we do not yet have a formal announcement stating definitively that Raisi is dead. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the death is confirmed, it seems by ITN/R we would also need to mention that Muhammad Mukhbar (or whomever Khamenei would appoint) is now the acting president. Also, I wonder if the other two wiki-notable people on board (Malek Rahmati and Mohammad Ali Ale-Hashem) should be included in the blurb, or do they just go in RD; I'd lean towards including them in the blurb. Davey2116 (talk) 04:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For all of those reasons, and particularly the absence of a formal statement that they are dead, we need to have a discussion here, rather than an admin just amending the blurb. Schwede66 04:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I note that the Muhammad Mukhbar article was moved a few hours ago, and I suspect that will be undone. It needs the eyes of those who speak Persian and know their way around naming conventions. Schwede66 04:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This would not be a blurb if the only people on board were the other two, and we have limited space with a lot else to cover, so I would lean against mentioning them. Sdkbtalk 04:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Once an official announcement is made, I think that both the president and foreign minister should be mentioned in the blurb along with whoever assumes the position of acting president. Alas, I probably will not be the one to update the blurb as it is after midnight here and I need to get some sleep. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're not allowed to go to bed until Wikipedia is finished! Sdkbtalk 04:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Iranian state media Mehr News says all aboard are dead. Reuters has quoted Mehr News and an Iranian government official. Jusdafax (talk) 04:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb 3- Best worded blurb at this time. Jusdafax (talk) 05:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that "acting president" is an unreferenced statement. From what I've seen, it is expected that he will be acting president. Without a reliable source, this cannot be posted. Schwede66 05:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The NYT has reported that "Iranian law stipulates that if the president dies, power is transferred to the first vice president and an election must be called within six months. The first vice president is Mohammad Mokhber, a conservative politician." But, that isn't the same thing as a formal transfer of power. Ed [talk] [OMT] 05:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      That may be so. But the acting part is still unreferenced in the target article. Schwede66 07:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • comment about the "acting part", aljazeera now says [6] "Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has confirmed First Vice President Mohammad Mokhber as the country’s acting president".46.222.205.14 (talk) 10:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment President of Iran is NOT an ITNR position (that's the Supreme Leader). So we don't need to worry about the succession issue, only the accident and deaths. --Masem (t) 11:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not correct. The president of Iran IS an ITNR position. WP:In the news/Recurring items#Elections and heads of state and government says that "Changes in the holder of the office which administers the executive of their respective state/government" going on to note that these positions are listed at List of current heads of state and government. Not only is the President of Iran listed as Head of government, so is the First Vice President, the Chief Justice, and the Speaker of Parliament (someone might want to review the two non-presidential government heads after the vice-president). This is similar to the UK where the Prime Minister is listed, along with the King, and some other Commonwealth nations, where the Governor General is listed along with King and PM. Nfitz (talk) 20:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The holder of the officer that administers the executive branch in Iran is the Supreme Leader. "Unlike the executive in other countries, the president of Iran does not have full control over the government, which is ultimately under the direct control of the Supreme Leader." per our article on the office. That's why the Supreme Leader is marked in green, they're the key control of the country and whom ITNR recognizes. Masem (t) 01:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He's the "key control" (head of state). They're the "triumvirate" (three-headed head of government). Above them all is God. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The president does not have full control of the executive, that is the Supreme Leader. The president is someone picked by the Supreme Leader to run the country under the S.L.'s directives (Raisi was considered to be next in line to be S.L. due to the current's age). So while the president may be the "head of state", they are not the person that "adminsters the executive" of Iran's government. — Masem (t) 12:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khameini, is the head of state. He is also one man, as opposed to them, the three heads of government. Mixing up pronouns isn't that bad, but now you've got the roles reversed, too. The head of state, as in Canada, doesn't touch the executive branch of the government. That's First Vice President Mohammad Mukhbar's job now. If we want to follow the standard ITNR rule, that means noting the change in executive administration to him from Raisi. When Khameini dies and is replaced, it won't be an ITNR deal. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We have (best that I can recall) always gone by considering only those cells that are in green on the list of leaders as the ones that meet the ITNR criteria for changes of the the exec office holder, as those are considered the most powerful position in that govt. Those in white or blue do not meet ITNR, though could still be considered a ITNC. Masem (t) 15:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's foolish to believe in a colour code not based on any reliable source when you have Government of Iran#Executive telling you in plain English that you're mistaken. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    From President of Iran "Unlike the executive in other countries, the president of Iran does not have full control over the government, which is ultimately under the direct control of the Supreme Leader." from Government of Iran "He is the highest nominally popularly elected official in Iran, although he answers to the Supreme Leader of Iran, who functions as the country's head of state.]]". President is primarily a symbolic position, the Supreme Leader holds the executive power. Masem (t) 16:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know why you think we're arguing about who's more powerful overall. We're arguing about who administers the executive. It should have been clear to you from the third word in your first quote, but from Government of Iran#Executive, again: Chapter 9 (Articles 133–142) of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran sets forth the qualifications for presidential candidates and procedures for election, as well as the powers and responsibilities as "functions of the executive". InedibleHulk (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "Who's more powerful overall" definitely matters. The Premier of China Li Qiang is the head of government of China, but he has no power compared to Xi Jinping. So I agree with Masem that the president of Iran (head of government), a lesser figure in the politics of Iran compared to the Supreme Leader, is not ITNR. When Khameini dies and is replaced, it won't be an ITNR deal. - this is a grave misunderstanding of the politics of Iran, which is an authoritarian type of government. The purpose of the "green color code" is to define who is de facto in charge of administering the executive, and that person would qualify under the guidelines at ITNR. Natg 19 (talk) 17:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you know of an occasion when Khamenei exercised an executive power instead of or in spite of one of his presidents (beyond choosing them)? If so, that would convince me something de facto is afoot. Till then, I don't think I gravely misunderstand anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:46, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    [7][8] These news articles say that ultimate power rests in the Supreme Leader, not the president. Natg 19 (talk) 18:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ultimate power over his mortal inferiors and toward foreigners, yes. Executive, legislative and judicial powers, no; he chooses to delegate these. If you ask him, he'll tell you God is his sovereign. God, in turn, despite this conceded higher power, doesn't sweat the mundane daily state or government affairs, just who'll next reign supreme on Earth (or so the Experts have it). InedibleHulk (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am going to suggest we move this to the talk page. Masem (t) 19:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've boldly removed the rest of the Election Commission - I'm not sure if the VP should be shaded blue - it is constitutional isn't it?
  • Comment. Is it possible we can have a break in the discussion now? We've established notability has been met for the crash itself, but perhaps a separate discussion of if the presidential succession is warranted. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably link to death and state funeral like in others like Death and state funeral of Nestor Kirchner.37.252.94.207 (talk) 05:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 18 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


[ATTENTION REQUIRED] RD: Willi Brokmeier edit

Article: Willi Brokmeier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

German tenor, light brilliant voice and acting talent, died at age 96 which was made public only two days ago - not remembered by many, it seems. - This was a DYK article, and I added some detail and dropped a lost ref. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:37, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Frank Ifield edit

Article: Frank Ifield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian musician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Four {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. And, the last few sentences in the Career section are not related to his career and may be better merged into the Personal life section. --PFHLai (talk) 01:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Koerner edit

Article: John Koerner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Star Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American blues musician. gobonobo + c 18:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article looks okay to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Sourcing and article layout look fine. Jusdafax (talk) 04:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tony O'Reilly edit

Article: Tony O'Reilly (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Irish businessman and international rugby union player.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 05:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose a large number of cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mark Wells edit

Article: Mark Wells (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NHLDetroit Free Press
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ice Hockey Player.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose pop culture and Career statistics sections are unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:14, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bruce Nordstrom edit

Article: Bruce Nordstrom (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Seattle Times
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American billionaire businessman.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Improper external linking in the body along with uncited statements. Bremps... 16:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support one cn tag but otherwise okay article. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you Please take a look now.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Article could use a little more detail about his role at Nordstrom in the first 30 years; has a gap between the 60s and 90s. Some of the statements are a little vague/promotional leaning ("stores began to slowly turn around as the Nordstroms moved the focus back to employees" -- not sure what this means?) SpencerT•C 01:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Alice Stewart edit

Article: Alice Stewart (commentator) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

if successful, give credit to HistoryTheorist as it is her logged out due to temporary computer problems 50.47.223.9 (talk) 01:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk edit

Article: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury for the unified heavyweight championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Ring of Fire match, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury by split decision to become the first undisputed heavyweight boxing champion in 24 years.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In boxing, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury to become the first undisputed heavyweight champion with the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In boxing, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury to become the first undisputed heavyweight champion in 24 years.
News source(s): Sky Sports Yahoo News
Credits:

For the first time in 25 years Usyk wins the WBA, WBO, WBC and IBF world titles; Shadow4dark (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • DQ No article. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously nothing to evaluate until there's an actual article, but reading the sources, a key aspect here is that this fight was to reunify four different boxing championships in the last 25 years, so that probably should be very clear in the blurb and subsequent article. --Masem (t) 00:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: There is an article, Usyk was just spelled incorrectly in the template. Stormy clouds (talk) 00:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Things like this don't happen every day and are even more rarely commemorated by people like us; this article does not suck, it just needs time. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support/Oppose on Quality. I'm not one for boxing in general and do kinda think it's a joke now, but first undisputed heavyweight champion since 2000? Yeah, that's news, and from my layman's perspective, the one boxing story worth posting at ITN. Not sure the best target articles, but I do think Usyk himself, the match, and Undisputed championship (boxing) should be bluelinked. My quality ruling depends on the target article though - Usyk's article looks good, but a fight summary would be nice for the fight article. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. BD2412 T 02:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article is lacking an update aside from the one sentence Usyk won by split decision.[1] in the lead. Nothing about the match itself is in the body. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but give some time for the the article(s) to be updated. I like DarkSide830 idea. I have added an altblurb to emphasize the rarity of this occasion. Bit wordy though. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 03:34, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, oppose on quality per above. First undisputed heavyweight champion in a quarter of a century is notable even with boxing’s reduced stature, but the fight article needs expansion. The Kip 03:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have expanded the fight article, adding some rudimentary fight details, but it could be expanded a quite a bit more. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 04:03, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, Starship.paint and I have expanded the fight article. It could possibly be bolded too. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 07:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. The media attention says it all. Also, I recommend WP:ITNR for fights only to boxers who won undisputed titles, given the rarity of this achievment and the media attention lavished on such. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alternative blurb III. In boxing, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury to become the first undisputed heavyweight champion in 24 years. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and use Alt3, don't use the "Ring of Fire" one as it was just a marketing phrase (that practically everyone ignored). Black Kite (talk) 11:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Narayanan Vaghul edit

Article: Narayanan Vaghul (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Business Line (India) Economic Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian banker. RIP. Ktin (talk) 03:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good enough to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PostedBagumba (talk) 16:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References edit

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: