Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2010

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September 30

Activist arrested for protesting in Manila Cathedral

Philippine Daily Inquirer GMA News Philippine Star: Filipino social activist Carlos Celdran is arrested after staging a protest action which disrupted a mass in Manila Cathedral attended by Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim and Papal Nuncio Edward Adams, in order to demonstrate against the Catholic Church’s opposition to the Reproductive Health Bill (Philippines). ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 21:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose not ITN material. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 23:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose the bar exams bombing had more press. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 07:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
This got picked up on the AP newswire and has run in over 100 media outlets now. The "Free Carlos Celdran" facebook fan page picked up 25,000 fans in 48 hours. This story is on the front page of WikiNews. Let's show that non-violent news is just as newsworthy. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 06:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
There are more popular news in the Philippines actually; college basketball has ended and that had 10 times as much Google News hits the past week. It'll be absolute silliness if this gets to be added and other more popular news in the home country won't. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 08:34, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
But the criteria isn't "Only the most popular story from a particular country is added." Besides, I just searched for "philippines basketball" and came back with about 80 hits. If you search for "Carlos Celdran" you come back with over 130. Xinhua just did a story about him, too. They reported the government has offered him protection after the death threats he's received. Basketball is over and fading. The Catholic Church showdown with the government over the RH bill is heating up and getting bigger, and Carlos Celdran is the face of Church opposition. I think this article is current and deserves as spot at ITN. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 14:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Coup d'etat in Ecuador

Top story on the BBC: Ecuador's President Rafael Correa denounces a coup d'etat, where the armed forces and police have created roadblocks and closed Quito's and Guayaquil's airports. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 19:31, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Support thats not good, that government has been quite stable in recent years. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support pending article. Major event. ~AH1(TCU) 20:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Commment We can't call it a coup yet that would be POV more of an agitation.©Geni 20:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Okey very short article at 2010 Ecuador crisis. Need to work on the title.©Geni 20:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Slightly longer article at 2010 Ecuador coup d'état attempt. Nowt to do with me, an editor mentioned it at Talk:Main Page. TFOWR 22:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support all latinamerican (at least) news services are talking about this (perhaps Europe's timezones an issue here) I will also recommend redirecting 2010 Ecuador crisis to 2010 Ecuador coup d'état attempt --Jor70 (talk) 22:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support as a notable protest, but not as an attempt at a coup d'état (that seems to be hyperbole). Physchim62 (talk) 22:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Indeed the police and army seem somewhat vexed but no one appears to be making a power grab yet.©Geni 22:22, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
They have the president detained in an hospital surrounded by mutineers and without permission to leave the facility, how that will be called if he would be an european president ? --Jor70 (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
It would usualy be a signal that france is about to start a new republic. A coup d'état is a replacement of the goverment. So far no one appears to be attempting to put a replacement in place.©Geni 22:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Indeed! any many would say that we are overdue for the Sixth French Republic... Physchim62 (talk) 22:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • A state of emergency is declared in Ecuador as protests by the police and members of the armed forces close both main airports and disrupt communications. Physchim62 (talk) 22:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Wait for now. The article isn't good enough to feature yet, and, as mentioned above, "coup" seems to be hyperbole. Let's see how this plays in the world's media tomorrow and put it up if it gets a lot of attention. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
      • Granted, the article is impossible to find except for right here. Xavexgoem (talk) 23:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
      • It's getting second billing on the BBC but we don't follow the media. Any series of events that result in the goverment of a country losing to control to this extent should be covered even if the media doesn't care much.©Geni 23:09, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
        • I don't know about you, but personally I don't follow Latin American politics enough to determine whether this is a big deal or a run of the mill event. That's why I'm content to get the media's take on it. In addition, an event heavily covered in the media will be more likely to draw editors to improve the Wikipedia article. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - We're talking about the police and military taking hostage attacking the president of their country. Xavexgoem (talk) 23:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC) struck because the article says he was taking hostage.
  • Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support the post but oppose the photo--the president of Ecuador is not what is notable here and IMO it's a little confusing.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:25, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Stuxnet moves to China

[1]. It hit Iran initially, it possibly affected an Indian satellite, and a few other countries including Indonesia. Now it is invading China. Weather the origin is known, or its intent is known or not, this work has humongous consequences not to be mentioned on ITN. Nergaal (talk) 18:09, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

China's state-run news agency reported that millions of computers have been infected. [2] When the article is updated, support. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • comment What is the program doing exactly? thats what I am unclear on? Other than infection what does it cause it to do if anything at the moment?The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support this is the 4th nomination for this within last week by 4 different editors. clearly an interesting story--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Suggest a good blurb please. By the way, no "possibly" or "maybe" allowed - we only state confirmed facts. The China part has been reported by its state-run news agency, so it should be fine as long as the article is updated accordingly. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Any other comments? --BorgQueen (talk) 00:28, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Article needs improvement. For Stuxnet#Affected_countries, there is only a table. There needs to be prose updates for countries besides Iran. SpencerT♦C 01:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Fabian Cancellara wins world championship

Cyclist Fabian Cancellara claims record fourth victory in Elite Men's time trial at Road World Championships.
Already listed at Portal:Current events/Sports. He is the first cyclist ever to win the time trial world championship four times. Sourced to the BBC here, but there's dozens of other reputable sources. All three articles linked were already updated, as were several others (such as second & third place getters). Can be accompanied by high quality images directly from the event such as this or this, which is rarely the case at ITN. --jjron (talk) 14:48, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I had prepared a blurb at WP:ITN/FE for Sunday for all four events (men's and women's, time trial and Road Race), but I cannot see consent for two cycling events at once, and I suspect that Bert the Accountant is going to trump the UCI WCs for newsworthiness this week. Kevin McE (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Kev, I get it, but does anyone else? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose not nearly as big as the Contador one. Nergaal (talk) 18:09, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Legendary Actor Tony Curtis Dies

I know that the main argument against is the old standard, "Too American, Too Americo-centric". Yes, maybe... But the man was a legend in his field and produced movies that became syndicated all over the world. He was certainly well respected in his field and recognized as such. link: [3] ( Cheers! Cwill151 (talk) 14:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I have updated the death section as far as I can and beefed it up with a nice quote from his daughter Jamie Lee Cwill151 (talk) 14:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
oppose The actually I am using the google test on this guy. If I have to google or go to his article on here to determine who he is then probably he is not ITN worthy. If i go to his article and none of his movies jump out as culturally Iconic then again probably not ITN worthy. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - "I've not heard of him" is not a valid argument against inclusion (As I always say, apply the Tim Berners Lee test - most won't know him by name but his contribution to modern technology cannot be doubted). Regarding the nom, I would argue many of his films are well known (Some Like it Hot, The Great Race, Spartacus etc). I would certainly put him in the same bracket as Jack Lemmon for how well he was known, even if he maybe he wasn't as good an actor. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Inclusion for Wikipedia you are right; ITN how ever when we talk has high threshold of inclusion on the template its not a valid argument it is however a barometer of the individual's notability for inclusion. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Limited Support: first death proposal since Eugène Terre'Blanche where I would have assumed that a vast majority of contributors would know the person almost instantly, but I'm not totally convinced that he was a big player, rather than simply to have been associated with big films. Kevin McE (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - as far as the acting field goes, he was pretty bloomin' important.  f o x  17:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose non notable death of somewhat notable actor.--Wikireader41 (talk) 17:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 17:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - Cos if he's not Spartacus then who is? He was a top drawer internationally known star. Bjmullan (talk) 17:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
See the story above: Fabian Cancellara is widely known as Spartacus. Kevin McE (talk) 21:19, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose not iconic. Nergaal (talk) 17:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Let me expand: he did not win an Academy Award, and the career section noes not stand out. Nergaal (talk) 20:33, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. The death is getting a lot of coverage on media worldwide, and the article is in a reasonable state (ie, it tells readers something more than the simple fact that is reported on ITN, which is not always the case for stories that get posted). I think we should have more obituaries on ITN, not fewer, so I don't accept the arguments that Curtis was "not iconic" or "not notable enough". Physchim62 (talk) 18:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Ok, if not iconic or notable are not criteria, why not post Greg Giraldo instead? Nergaal (talk) 20:31, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Sure he was notable but his death, especially at such an advanced age, is not significant.--Mkativerata (talk) 20:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Maybe I'm just too young, but I don't think he's notable enough to get an ITN entry when he dies at 85. Kirk Douglas, yes. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Question, Since when does the death itself have to be considered "notable", that's not written anywhere in the criteria and it doesn't even make sense. For a person to have had a career which would be considered notable per ITN standards they must have been "distinguished in their field and recognized as such". How would this be possible unless the person in question had an exemplary and long career, with certain rare exceptions, and if they must have had a long career then their death as a result of natural causes should come as a function of their life spent becoming ITN worthy, not as a criteria for notability... Right? Otherwise the only worthy obits on ITN would be James Dean, Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, etc.Cwill151 (talk) 23:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Its a balancing act, This guy was notable thus we have a wikipedia article. As far as ITN Deaths While it asks that it only need one to be nominated most editors would like to see meet two or three of those Criteria to be posted. Its not all that clear from some arguments that he meets even the one. it could be argued that an American Actor lacking an Oscar is not recognized as "important figure in their field of expertise," The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
As per below, it's a fair argument to say that his notability must be of substantial importance to make it on ITN, but it's not to argue that his perceived lack of notability comes from his lack of an Oscar. I mean, while the Oscars are a fairly good litmus test as to the recognition of actors, it is not by any means absolute. Many, many scientists and physicians who have contributed greatly to their fields and have produced some of the most astounding discoveries in human history have gone their whole careers without even so much as a nomination for a Nobel Prize, and then out-of-the-blue Obama wins without having given anything to the field of "peace". Awards of that sort should not be absolute criteria for ITN or consensus-based notability. Cwill151 (talk) 01:37, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I am saying its a good barometer, but by no means a perfect yard stick. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
How many scientists (with or without Nobels) make it on the ITN? Nergaal (talk) 04:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
We've gone back and forth on deaths. Once, there were hardly any deaths on ITN -- even James Brown didn't get on. Now we've sort of swung the other way. We have to remember that important people die every day -- see the obituaries in The New York Times or Times of London. If we're not careful, we could wind up with deaths on ITN all the time. That's why I'm of the belief that people who die normally (e.g., of a heart attack at 85) should have to be exceptionally notable: Michael Gorbechev, Elizabeth Taylor, Chuck Berry, but not Gennady Yanayev, Abe Vigoda or Paul Anka. Where does Tony Curtis lie on that spectrum? I understand he was a very famous actor, but personally, I don't think he rises to the level required. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:28, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I might be in the 'just too young' camp but I also just don't find him that notable. No Academy Awards, and it's really only a small handful of films that he's extremly well known for (though he does have an extensive body of work). If I were to choose an actor from that era to support the death of, I'd consider the following: Kirk Douglas, Mickey Rooney, Alan Arkin,Sidney Poitier, Earnest Borgnine, Gene Hackman, etc.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:56, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Strong support - Clearly a huge film star which clears the threshold for deaths on ITN by a comfortable margin. He has been out of the media limelight for more than a decade, but that does not change his stature. __meco (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Although 'I've not heard of him' isn't a valid reason, the fact that about half the contributors here (including myself) have not seems relevant. The mainstream media has almost ignored his death (at least here in the UK), what coverage there is has been low-key and none I've seen has described him as anything more than one of many actors from that era; he's certainly not being described as 'legendary'. I don't see how this (certainly notable) actor meets the death criteria. Modest Genius talk 17:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Well I live in the UK as well and this morning almost all papers had some form of tribute to him. Most major British news sources have devoted a fair amount of coverage (here's an example of one of the many obituaries for him, this one from the BBC [4]). The Guardian has a devoted subsection for him on their website [5] and even the UK tabloids have plenty of articles The Mirror Daily Star. A quick search of Google News shows his death has been reported around the world... --Daviessimo (talk) 20:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I obviously missed that. Damn news cycle is dropping below 24 hours it seems. Modest Genius talk 16:29, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Goldilocks planet found

Scientists have found a planet similar to ours in size and distance from the sun. High probability of liquid water. As we all know liquid water invariably = life. This is a link to where I saw it. I can write an article or someone else can. Not sure what they're calling this planet but I can find it out. We even possibly have an image (first image on Goldilocks planet). Cheers, Mr. R00t Talk 01:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

when C was discovered it was thought to be just inside of the habitable zone; when D was discovered, it was thought to be just outside the zone; G, discovered just now, is exactly between the two.
Strong support. Important discovery, first Earth-like "Goldilocks planet" ever found. ~AH1(TCU) 02:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Hold on. It's a no-brainer if it's confirmed, but scientific discoveries on ITN require an article in a peer-reviewed journal, not just a press release. By it's very nature, Wikipedia tries to have higher standards of verifiability that the general media, as we serve a different purpose. Physchim62 (talk) 02:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Psychim62. We don't even have a name for this planet yet. I guess we should wait then. Mr. R00t Talk 03:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The planet is Gliese 581g, though, isn't it? Abyssal (talk) 03:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes it is. I didn't make the connection though. Mr. R00t Talk 03:48, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Gliese 581 g support Nergaal (talk) 07:09, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, paper has been accepted, free to view at [6]. Just about to have a read of it... Modest Genius talk 11:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. There are too many unanswered questions about the planet, and the existence of liquid water is some kind of speculation, yet not proved. Indeed, it's a significant report, but based on a mystery. The outcome of the study of the planet won't be released in recent time, so it shouldn't be posted until then.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
No scientist has claimed that there is actually water there - they've just said that conditions appear to be right for it. Some of the more overblown media reports have done though, which is completely wrong of them. Modest Genius talk 14:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
strong support first planet ever found in a habitable zone of it's sun according to NASA. that is quite a major news. -- Ashish-g55 13:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Obvious candidate. MickMacNee (talk) 13:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. The article Gliese 581 g is adequately updated, although a little more attention on it wouldn't go amiss. The story has made newspapers around the world, and our readers tend to like space stories (judging by the click-through stats). Physchim62 (talk) 13:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Could I request that we do NOT use the term 'Goldilocks planet'? That's a stupid, informal and derrogatory phrase - and it's a poor article to boot (note goldilocks zone already redirects to habitable zone, goldilocks planet probably should do too). I suggest 'first planet in the habitable zone of a star' instead. Modest Genius talk 14:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Derogatory? Whatever you feel, you're entitled to your opinions... But let's not forget that this is the science that gave us the "Big Bang", so I suspect that "Goldilocks planet" is here to stay (and NASA seem happy enough with it). Physchim62 (talk) 16:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Not to mention quarks. Three quarks for Muster Mark! Goldilocks Planet is actually a very nice name, since the intended meaning is so obvious. Oh, and support; it is not yet peer-reviewed, but has attracted enough attention in the "real" news for us to mention it ITN. Thue | talk 18:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
It's on the same level as 'God particle' - used all the time in media reports and sometimes in outreach activities, but never in the scientific literature. We shouldn't be using folksy names when a perfectly good term already exists and is wider usage. Oh and it HAS been peer reviewed, accepted by ApJ. Modest Genius talk 16:06, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Support per the above comments. Ks0stm (TCG) 13:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. About as notable as an astronomy news item can be. Offliner (talk) 15:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose We have been told at various times that Gliese 581 d and 70 Virginis b are also habitable, so it is by no means the first such claim, and it has not yet been subjected to the levels of scrutiny that lead to the retraction of those claims. The gap between potentially habitable, if other life forms have the same climactic requirements as the life form we know, and possibly inhabited is unspeakably large. Kevin McE (talk) 15:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support As per nomination. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 17:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Question. I'm confused; as Kevin points out, the article on Gliese 581 d says that it is within the habitable zone. There seems to be a contradiction here. Lampman (talk) 17:39, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
those were at the edges of habitable zone one too hot one too cold. this one is right in the middle. that distinction makes this one lot more interesting. -- Ashish-g55 18:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • So 10 supports+1 nom and 2 oppose votes. Nergaal (talk) 17:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nom--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, as Lampman said, Gliese 581 d claims to be "within the habitable zone where liquid water may exist" too. I think I should leave this to someone familiar with the topic. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong Support Abyssal (talk) 18:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • I have added an image to try to clarify the issue about the habitable zone. Nergaal (talk) 19:42, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
New blurb: "Gliese 581 g, a planet orbiting Gliese 581, is thought to be in the habitable zone in which liquid water may exist." Or you could substitute habitable zone with Goldilocks zone. Mr. R00t Talk 22:42, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per Kevin McE and usage of terms like "high probability." A little too much speculation for something that could potentially occur many times throughout other parts of the universe. SpencerT♦C 01:07, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Just a comment on the questions about Gliese 581d: that planet is located just outside the HZ, so could host liquid water, but only if it has a runaway greenhouse effect. That's purely speculation. On the other hand Gliese 581g is located slap bang in the middle of the HZ, so it can host liquid water whatever its atmosphere is doing. Oof course that doesn't mean it actually DOES have any water, it might be as dry as the Moon. But that's beside the point. Modest Genius talk 16:12, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - Very important discovery, first planet to be within a Goldilocks zone. Derild4921 18:43, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Alberto Contador tests positive

Fails drug test from Tour de France. Has won 3 TDFs, 5 Grand tours, universally rated best cyclist in the world. Has been "indicted" so to speak, like an impeachment hearing YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Top news on ABC Australia and BCC. Cycling is only a mid-level sport in those countries YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 03:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose plenty of athletes test positive (or admit) doping: Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez (ITNC discussion), Brian Cushing, etc. None of them were posted. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Well baseball cricket etc are sports where pure strength is not the only thing, whereas in cycling, physiology is mostly everything except on moutain descents or cobblestones where you can crash YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 09:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Support: Spanish cyclist Alberto Contador is suspended following detection of clenbuterol in a sample taken during the 2010 Tour de France, which he won The rider who won the last 5 Grand Tours that he started has been suspended, and unless he gets a reversal of the decision, the sport's top man is out for at least two years. This is bigger than Landis' failure, which we reported. As the positive test occured during the Tour de France, the precedent from 2006 is that the result (an ITN/R matter) would be reversed: he is by no means "just some sportsman" in Europe. I'd far rather be arguing for inclusion of the current UCI World Championships results... Kevin McE (talk) 06:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Support: While what User DC is saying may be true, only one cyclist won the Tour de France. JonCatalán(Talk) 07:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Strong support as this is the last nail on the coffin of professional cyclism as a worldwide, serious sport. Nergaal (talk) 07:12, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Support Very significant event for the sport. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support. Comparisons with members in team sports aren't equivalent, as the 50 game ban for Manny Ramirez indicates. -Halo (talk) 10:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Weak support. There are plenty of such reports, so it's impossible to post all of them. However, this is a very important one. I don't agree with DC, who mentioned "locally known" athletes tested positive, which is pretty false here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Cyclists are drug users? Who'dathought it? Describing this as a 'mid-level' sport in some countries, while ITN pretends things like Darts and Snooker just don't exist, has got to be a joke surely. MickMacNee (talk) 13:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Darts is a sport? And snooker? Eh maybe pool/billiards/however it is supposed to be called must be played in more countries... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:11, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The WPBSA call it snooker, and it's played in and by more countries than college football or ladies baseball or whatever other crap you get on cable TV in the Phillipines. MickMacNee (talk) 13:19, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
We'd sure get the Arsenal-Chelsea game this weekend. w00t. (And yes, pool, the one with striped balls, has to be played in more countries than snooker.)
BTW, I support this since it's all over the news right now. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support IF it has consequences...depending on whether or not something actually happens because of this discovery (or has it already?), I would support. Ks0stm (TCG) 14:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Something has happened: he has been suspended hours before the World Time trial championship took place, and 3 days before the World Road Race championship takes place. It so happens that he had finished his season anyway, and wasn't named for those events, but the "standard" suspension is two years, although that has not been confirmed in this case. Kevin McE (talk) 15:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
In that case, I would prefer to wait for the "standard" suspension. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
This has 7 9 supports and 2 opposes (unimformed ones) and is still not up while the next entry with 4 supports is up???? Nergaal (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support = 8 10 supports. -Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 18:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  Administrator noteGetting down to brass tacks, the update is four sentences long, with two citations, both of which are bare URL's. This needs work/expansion/more sources before going up, which it has support to do. Courcelles 21:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
I have expanded the section and fixed the links. Nergaal (talk) 22:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Ayodhya debate verdict

Strong support The topic is trending on Twitter too. Mspraveen (talk) 11:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: I hope the fact that another India-related story is coming up shortly doesn't affect this. SPat talk 13:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Not at all. We try to have some semblance of geographical diversity in the medium-to-long term, but it's impossible to make ITN geographically diverse every day of the year. Physchim62 (talk) 13:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. The Babri Mosque riots were a huge event, and this settlement is making international news. MickMacNee (talk) 13:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. A major development in the Ayodhya debate is definitely significant. Physchim62 (talk) 13:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. A mosque built on a temple destroyed by Muslim invaders which leads to riots a few hundred years story is definitely ITN worthy.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Can somebody rephrase the news better? I will add to the news section -- Tinu Cherian - 14:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Added an alternate news headline. Mspraveen (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Should we avoid direct reference to the religions ? -- Tinu Cherian - 15:30, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
What's wrong with the original blurb? SPat talk 15:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
OK. Updated the Main page ITN with one closer to the original nomination -- Tinu Cherian - 15:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose so what? Nergaal (talk) 17:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Its a court case over whether the destruction of a mosque in India by extremist Hindus is acceptable. This is an extremely important court case for India. (Thus Strong support). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but without a reaction section it does not appear to have had an impact on anything outside the city. Nergaal (talk) 18:11, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
It's a dispute that's been going on for four hundred years, which caused globally reported riots in 1992 that killed thousands of people, and the verdict has led to 200,000 police officiers being deployed across northern India to try to prevent clashes (BBC News). I can only assume that Nergaal simply hasn't read the article. Physchim62 (talk) 18:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
I understand that. But we don't put up articles without updates. The only update in the article is the entry in the table. Without a section on reaction, an uninformed reader (like me) does not understand the significance of this event; therefore why put it in the ITN if readers "won't get it"? Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. This is of keen interest to hundreds of millions of people and has received worldwide press. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Support'. Although India is no stranger to ethic violence and very divisive and religious tensions and therefore not remarkable, this pogrom was particularly vicious even by Indian standards leading to death to thousands and thousands of mainly Muslims. It is also particularly galling that it seemed unprovoked and was state sponsored with many elected politicians linked to the destruction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
@Neergal: you are right that the article needs substantial update. The section Ayodhya debate#The title cases was updated before the nomination, however we probably didn't do enough to highlight it in the article. Presently, there is an update in the lead paragraph itself. SPat talk 00:57, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

September 29

2010 European anti-austerity protests

Thousands of people protest in many European countries against the austerity measures implemented by the EU governments.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The most massive protest was the one in Brussels, where thousands of people marched to the buildings of the EU institutions. The topic is related to the 2010 European sovereign debt crisis, which should be the key article in the potential blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Support. Seems serious enough and is receiving international attention. (Al Jazeera) (CNN) (The Hindu) (Xinhua) (The Sydney Morning Herald) Among other events, Spain has had its first general strike since 2002, thousands have marched on Brussels and a concrete mixer has been involved in an altercation with Ireland's parliament in Dublin. --candlewicke 19:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nom--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. Clear international interest. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. If I had to choose one story of long-term interest from Europe today, this one wouldn't be it. The marches in Brussels were only about 50,000 strong (half of what was expected); the general strike in Spain (where I live) was calmer than expected (general strikes here can get quite violent, so a huge national sigh of relief on that one). The last time I nominated a protest for ITN, it was a march of a million people: maybe my own political views are colouring my judgment, but these protests just seem run-of-the-mill in comparison. Physchim62 (talk) 01:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Since this is not a single protest, but massive protests involving people of most of the countries of the EU, the numerical comparisons are needless. A million people protesting in only one city is not comparable with even few thousands widely scattered in many cities. The matter receives attention, because of its massive reception, not because of the number of people involved in it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:04, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

FIDE presidential elections

Kirsan Ilyumzhinov is re-elected as president of FIDE.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose he's the head of a sports organization. ~DC We Can Work It Out 19:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I doubt we would put the new head of Major League Baseball or FIFA or the IOC on here. We're definitely not putting the head of chess. --Smashvilletalk 21:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't have a problem with the three you mentioned, depending how much attention they get. ~DC We Can Work It Out 21:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I think the IOC would be a easy decision to post... and FIFA would be close. Chess? No. Oppose Courcelles 21:52, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Gordon Bennett Cup (ballooning)

Two balloonists taking part in the Gordon Bennett Cup race are missing in thunderstorms over the Adriatic. BBC. Notable or not? - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. not notable IMHO. The competition itself wasn't particularly notable, and air–sea searches are fairly regular occurances at this time of year in the Mediterranean/Adriatic. Physchim62 (talk) 16:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Tuvaluan general election, 2010 and Maatia Toafa

Nominate the Tuvaluan general election, 2010 and the election of Prime Minister Maatia Toafa on September 29th. This is the first change of government in the country in four years. Some sources spell Toafa's first name Matia while others use Maatia. The accepted spelling seems to be Maatia. Scanlan (talk) 02:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose it's the smallest sovereign state in the world (well, besides the Vatican) with a population of 12,000. ~DC We Can Work It Out 04:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 06:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support: I'm in favour of government changes/national elections for allsovereign nations. The inclusion of such stories, rather than ITN simply being a rehash of the front page of my newspaper, is what makes ITN interesting. Kevin McE (talk) 06:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per DC. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support: It's getting significant coverage in Australia and New Zealand. It's also prescribed in WP:ITN/R, which states that changes to heads of state and/or government in any item on our list of sovereign states is deemed noteworthy. Arbitrary exclusions based on population size is illogical and impractical. Nightw 08:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support Change of government; reasonable article. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
IMO the lead paragraph should be expanded a bit before posting.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Done. Nightw 15:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support obvious ITN material.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support population 12,000 or 12,000,000 it's still a country, and they just elected their leader. That's worthy, in my opinion. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose Enough of this nonsense. No rule should be written in stone according to WP:IAR. Colipon+(Talk) 15:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Thank you. Also, ITNR itself states items "proposed on the candidates page before being posted" which means they can still be opposed. ~DC We Can Work It Out 15:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - There is no hard and fast rule here, only people attempting to maintain a degree of neutrality and fairness when dealing with topics (in this case politics), which are always going to be subject to systemic biases. At the end of the day, Tuvalu is a sovereign state just like the US, India or South Africa. Its also worth bearing in mind that, it is the very fact that we post items such as this, that sets us apart from common media sources or other encyclopaedias. If someone isn't interested in the item they don't have to click the link... --Daviessimo (talk) 15:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
You know, I'm going to use the "don't click it if you don't want to read more" argument about American stories, see how well that flies with those. ~DC We Can Work It Out 15:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
You know, there are some people that are actually interested in stuff that happens outside of their own country. Nightw 16:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Yup. I'm certainly not one of them. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Article is fine and this is ITN/R. Posting. Courcelles 16:14, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I missed the point where ITNR trumps consensus. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
And there's plenty of consensus to post, as well. You are the only one actively posting this item, and consensus in a general sense is that all sovereign nations go up if the article gets updated. Courcelles 16:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Right, so four other people didn't oppose this item also? ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
None of which actually make any argument. "Per above" is not a consensus building exercise. Courcelles 16:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Well all the supporters made the same "sovereign nations get posted per ITNR" argument. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
"Items which are listed on this page are considered to have already satisfied the 'importance' criterion for inclusion on ITN, every time they occur." is what it says on ITN/R. nowhere does it say that we need to discuss ITN/R items and build consensus each time we post them. IMO consensus already exists for posting these items. why have an ITN/R if we are going to debate these items endlessly every time ??--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

But small countries regularly get opposed when they are nominated here. Maybe WP:ITNR should be changed. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

maybe. we should take that discussion to the relevant talk page. maybe we should have a minimum population criteria for countries whose elections we post. maybe we can extend this and say that the number of items in ITN from a country has to be in proportion to the countries population.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
See this thread on WP:ITN -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:56, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
@Wikireader, why does ITNR say items need to be "proposed on the candidates page before being posted"? ~DC We Can Work It Out 19:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I think that is about the update. even ITN/R items cannot be posted absent a reasonable update.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. Support and opposition is meaningless if it is ITNR, only if the update is acceptable. Courcelles 20:34, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
So WP:CONSENSUS doesn't apply? ~DC We Can Work It Out 21:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support for what it is worth. Whether people like it or not, this was the election of a head of government for a sovereign country. Saying it is too small for ITN is not a meaningful argument. The size of a country should not matter, otherwise we should fill ITN full of news from China and India. --PlasmaTwa2 22:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. It's ridiculous to say the size of the country shouldn't have any bearing on the decision. Quite simply, all other things being equal, an election in a country of 10,000 people is far less important and newsworthy than an election in a country of 100 million people. In addition, I'm pretty sure there is little reader interest in this subject, and the ITN criteria say items should be "of wide interest to the encyclopedia's readers." (Unfortunately, the Wikipedia page hits counter is down, but I bet Maatia Toafa had far fewer hits in the past few weeks than did Ed Miliband.) I note how Toafa got a total of 531 votes in his constituency! -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
support all items in ITN/R have previously been discussed hence they have consensus. if there needs to be an exception made for this item then that should be taken care of separately and perhaps next time this will not have automatic consensus. and mwalcoff keeps stating the same line out of context (since its half the line) every other day which cannot be used to support or oppose anything. -- Ashish-g55 00:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
How am I stating anything out of context? The first sentence of WP:ITN says, "The In the news (ITN) section on the Main Page serves to showcase articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest to the encyclopaedia's readers." Ergo, ITN articles are supposed to be of wide interest to the encyclopedia's readers. I've never said that's the only criterion. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
@Ashishg55: When you say " if there needs to be an exception made for this item then that should be taken care of separately and perhaps next time this will not have automatic consensus" you do realize there was no consensus to post it this time ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose- while it is interesting for trivia it really isn't very significant in the large scale of things. While it is nice to know about stuff like this, how many people coming to the English Wikipedia have even heard of Tuvalu or the Tuvaluan people? The only reason I had ever heard of them was because I did a school project on WWII and it mentioned something about the area. Mr. R00t Talk 03:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
A season of Survivor was shot there too. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Post-posting support. The election of a head of government of a sovereign country is a significant event on a regional or international level, even when that country has a small population. I think that the "population=importance" argument, while not entirely inaccurate, oversimplifies matters: a country with a relatively small population (e.g. Israel, pop. 7.5 million) can have a large international presence, and a country with a large population (e.g. Democratic Republic of the Congo, pop. 71 million) can have a relatively limited international presence. In terms of regionally- or internationally-significant news, what happens can be just as or more important than where it happens. In this context, the election of a head of government is a high-importance event, even when it takes place in Tuvalu. -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:12, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Israel is 1000x bigger than Tuvalu... -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:33, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps just let this one go and concentrate on your proposal. Nightw 07:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
And the DRC is 10x more populous than Israel, yet that doesn't translate to it being 10x more prominent in global affairs. My point was that population is not the only or primary factor that determines the international presence or significance of a country, and countries should not be excluded from ITN merely on the basis of population. -- Black Falcon (talk) 23:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • oppose. Seriously, this 'news' doesn't even make the funny pages in most serious publications. MickMacNee (talk) 13:11, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Delays in U.S. executions

I'm really not sure about this one, but it caught my eye and so I'll nominate it to see what others think. Physchim62 (talk) 01:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment this was on NPR the other day. the problem is that the states have written protocols they follow which don't allow substitution of the drug with something similar. Midazolam or Propofol would work just as well and are much more commonly used (medically) as compared to good old thiopentone.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
NPR? Kevin McE (talk) 06:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
National Public Radio (I assume). Physchim62 (talk) 08:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Yep. Sorry didnt wikilink that--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose if this was a supreme court decision I'd strongly consider supporting, but as its just a technicality I don't think its interesting enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - presumably they're getting executed anyway. It's like saying an election's being postponed because a candidate's died, or something.  f o x  11:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Terror plot averted

Oppose. Claims of foiled terrorist plots just don't seem like ITN material to me. We usually require something to have happened (and drone attacks in Pakistan are hardly news these days). Plus my anarchistic tendency makes me feel that this is just so much propaganda for the European security agencies, who make their money by scaring people about "terror plots". Physchim62 (talk) 01:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment well there has been an unprecedented increase in drone strikes and September has seen most strikes ever since the attacks started in 2004. I think we now have an answer why. we regularly post terrorist attacks which are successful. Why not give some credit to agencies who work hard to keep us safe but only get noticed when they fail. If it is propaganda why now ??--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Rubber-stamp oppose per Physchim62. There is a fine line between news and daily garbage. Mar4d (talk) 09:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Really. that is not what everybody else including Pak Intelligence is reporting[7]. garbage from Jinnahs newspaper eh--Wikireader41 (talk) 17:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The 'Pak intelligence' link is nothing but a normal, nothing-out-of-the-ordinary intelligentsia report. Even the country's army dismissed the claim as 'speculative.' Mar4d (talk) 05:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

September 28

North Korean leadership succession

Kim Jong-un is given military rank of General and made a Vice Chairman of the National Defence Commission, effectively paving the way for hereditary succession. NYT
I'm quite surprised that no one has suggested this yet. Colipon+(Talk) 23:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Support. I wasn't sure if this was ITN-worthy when I heard the news yesterday, but it was on the front page of today's New York Times and Wall Street Journal. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support 27yo 4-star armchair joke general. Geez Asian countries have such monarchic tendencies: Ind, Pak, Bang, Indonesia, VN, Burma, NK, Phil, Syria YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Were you always this cynical? Nergaal (talk) 08:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
As he's Asian himself, he's perfectly entitled to be.  f o x  11:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support when the article is updated. The blurb should probably mention he is a son of Kim Jong-il. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. I was considering nominating this myself, but I was just waiting for something to actually happen, rather than the speculation that been flying around. The party posts which he has now been awarded (see BBC News) clinch it for me. Physchim62 (talk) 00:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose until he actually takes over. If and when Kim Jong-il hands over the reins of power, we can post then. Internal politicking to set up his son as heir is not sufficient. Modest Genius talk 00:58, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Events like this happen only once; besides, the Party Conference of the KWP has not convened for 44 years. When Jong-un takes over, the focus will be the elder Kim dying, not the younger one taking over. Decisions like this are extremely rare and not just "internal politicking" - it has great international significance and long-lasting impact. In addition, I would argue that this story is much higher in significance and has received much more international coverage than Luzhkov, Yanayev, Typhoon Fanapi, Kosmoceratops, and The King's Speech. The only one that could perhaps compete on significance is that Italian money-laundering scandal. Colipon+(Talk) 01:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
What about the first congress of the ruling party in thirty years? These are not normal events, and are being widely reported across the media. Physchim62 (talk) 01:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong Oppose per Modest genius. as YM points out these kind of things are not unusual or notable in that part of the world. Who else did you think would succeed in North Korea? --Wikireader41 (talk) 01:04, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Jong-un was not the only candidate. Kim Jong-il has two other sons, Kim Jong-nam and Kim Jong-chul, and his brother-in-law Chang Sung-taek, who is already in a position considered second only to Kim Jong-Il, was suggested by some South Korean officials and academics to be a potential succesor. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:36, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
that must have been a difficult choice. picking his younger son over the older one who apparently likes the decadent Tokyo Disneyland which of course would render him unfit for the post of a feared military dictator. still I fail to see the notability of a dictator choosing his son to replace him. sounds pretty much business as usual. also who is to say that the plans will go through. the kid might get killed before his father.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. While it seems significant, I agree with Modest Genius that the time for posting is when he actually takes over. Ks0stm (TCG) 01:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose per Modest and WP:CRYSTAL. Grsz11 01:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose I would require to make it offical announcement of sucessorship rather than "yeah, it looks like it will probably" The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Obvious ITN is obvious. It eclipses all current items, and all items currently being considered, by miles. MickMacNee (talk) 03:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Strongest possible support. What's with this "when he becomes leader" crap? We post elections, not inaugurations. When he takes over, that means the elder Kim dies and that's the news. The "monarchic tendencies" aren't really confined to Asian countries, though. Remember the Clintons and Bushes? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Comment It isn't even concrete that this youngest son will be the successor. He was simply promoted to a position where he has more power, and many speculate that he will follow and is currently the heir-apparant. It's all speculation at this point. Grsz11 03:57, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
That's some well-referenced speculation, if I may add. Also, why am I not surprised the item immediately below this is getting an easier time than this? Like come on, Iceland, how many people are there? Oh wait, the correct question will be, how many White guys are there? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
The exact same article speculates that after the current Kim dies it could be a triumvarate. Posting that the 27-year old Kim is appointed the successor would be incredibly inaccurate. Grsz11 04:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment we post elections yes. This guy probably didnt win a single election even in School. ( presuming he did think necessary to go to one). I cant recall the last time we posted appointment of a General ( even a legitimate one). Why are we giving so much importance to speculation of what may happen. What if this guy decides to go to Tokyo Disneyland too or does something else silly. will we post that too ?--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, (HTD's racist accusations notwithstanding). Obviously notable. Nightw 07:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. In more likelihood, Kim Jong-il will be the focus of the blurb when he dies, so let's give this guy a minute in the spotlight. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 08:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
It pains me to be on the same side as HTD after that comment, but support.  f o x  11:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
We seem to have consensus now. Could anyone suggest a well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The article lead states that he is presumed to be the heir. on ITN we can not crystal ball and put presumed. the blurb should only mention that he became a general or whatever. the presumption based on that can be read in the article. -- Ashish-g55 13:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Exactly, he became a general. And that is notable how? How about "Kim Jong-un of North Korea becomes a four-star general and may one day become President." If when Jong-il dies there is an immediate successor, whether this guy or something else, that would be in the same blurb. If there is a little bit of gap, then the successor would get their own. Grsz11 14:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I echo Grsz's concerns here...all he did was become a general (from my understanding of it), and nothing else is certain at this point. I would be more for this if it was a bit more rock solid that something significant will result from him becoming general. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. what kind of blurb can you write for this ?

Military dictator's favorite son promoted to 4 star General and now officially expected to succeed his dad (provided dad doesn't change his mind) after older son craves Tokyo Disneyland--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Hahahahaha!   Nightw 15:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I am simply in awe that the Tuvalu election result made it on ITN but not this. Colipon+(Talk) 17:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Why are people so bemused as to what his becoming a general actually means in this context? North Korea is a military dictatorship, they have a policy of military first, the military controls all state functions. If people don't understand the significance of this event, you just have to read one or two of the sources. And that is not even the important part, it is his appointment to the NDC that is the most important part, it is the NDC that has supreme power. This is a big deal, and it should have gone up hours ago. We have just posted the result of the Tuvalu election for jebus sake, who on Earth in the world gives a flying toss about that, really? That, together with the Moscow Mayor item, makes this continuing delay pretty outrageous tbh. MickMacNee (talk) 17:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, posting soon. Please deflect some bullets for me :D --BorgQueen (talk) 17:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
prepares a shield -- Ashish-g55 19:14, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
gratuitously places Mick in the firing line Physchim62 (talk) 19:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Agree that Kim Jong-un's post in the NDC is more important than the post in the CMC of the KWP. Hopefully I don't need to explain these acronyms. Thus post should be modified as: Kim Jong-un is elevated to rank of General and becomes Vice-Chairman of the National Defence Commission of North Korea. Colipon+(Talk) 20:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Please update the article first. I might have missed something but I can't find that info there... --BorgQueen (talk) 20:23, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Iceland's former PM charged at Court of Impeachment

Geir Haarde, Iceland's Prime Minister during the country's finance disaster is being prosecuted at the Landsdómur - Iceland's Court of Impeachment. The charge is negligence in the events leading up to the banking collapse in 2008. The Althingi just decided this with 33 votes against 30. This will be the first time this court which was established in 1905 will be called into session. __meco (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

strong Support Impeachment of one the key catalysts for the Recent recession? Definitely The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:43, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Strongest Support. It is very rare for a head of government (in a democracy) to be prosecuted for acts committed in that office. Also, the collapse of the Icelandic economy was spectacular and has received a huge amount of coverage around the world. Physchim62 (talk) 19:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment Am I right in saying he has just been charged now? Isn't the result (the actual prosecution) more of the ITN-worthy news. Although, the sheer magnitude leaves me leaning support. Grsz11 19:35, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Haarde is the first world leader to be criminally prosecuted following the 2008 financial crisis. That's big enough, for sure. __meco (talk) 19:49, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
The Icelandic parliament has voted by 33–30 to send Haarde before the court: in the same session, it declined to send three other ministers (foreign minister, finance minister and "business" minister in charge of banking) in the previous government the same way. While an indictment, which is what this effectively is, is not the same as a guilty verdict, it is still pretty strong stuff. Physchim62 (talk) 19:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Blurb? Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 20:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
We seem to have consensus but the article Geir Haarde needs to be updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
I've done a quick and minimal update; the article could still do with some work though. Physchim62 (talk) 20:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Looks good enough. I'll post soon if nobody objects. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 18:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Support seems notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Sally Menke

American film editor and frequent Quentin Tarantino collaborator Sally Menke has been found dead. She was 56 and had recently worked on the 2010 film Peacock. Herald Sun - JuneGloom07 Talk? 18:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. She's too small for ITN. __meco (talk) 18:46, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
  • oppose I had to google her to find out who she was. I am not big on Hollywood but if I have to google and some one to find out who she is then she probably is not ITN worthy. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:47, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Outside of directors, I don't think that there is a single behind the scenes person that could make ITN. --Smashvilletalk 19:05, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Oaxaca landslide

Is feared at least 300 deaths. Article under construction. Please feel free to expand. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

However, would a blurb stating "Tropical Storm Matthew kills at least 216 people in Central America" or something to that effect work? — Iune(talk) 17:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
  • The Beeb says that Matthew did it. That said, the Matthew article needs updating of its impact in Mexico: at least another 6 people were killed by the tropical depression, aside from the landslide. So support, pending that update to the Matthew article. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 19:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. The landslide may have killed as many as 1,000, which would make Matthew comparable to Stan. Another landslide also recently occurred in Colombia and may be related to the low pressure system that formed Matthew/Nicole/Otto/Paula, and while the Mexico landslide's death toll is currently lower, it will almost certainly rise. Matthew also affected the same areas hit by Agatha, TD 11-E and Karl, as well as the regions in southeastern Mexico hit by the 2007 floods.

~AH1(TCU) 21:26, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Whoa, slow down...I just heard on the evening news that 3 people were confirmed dead and 12 missing...that's waaaay under the 1000 some sources have stated, so which is right? Ks0stm (TCG) 01:00, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
there is a difference in "confirmed dead" and "estimated dead". the discrepancy has been because nobody has been able to get to the area to "confirm" the deaths.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:39, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
(ec) BBC News is reporting 4 deaths. Let's get the facts straight before posting this; the article says an 'estimated 300' are dead, which seems to be wrong or at least not supported at the moment.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


  • Stuxnet, a new kind of a self-replicating "worm" that started on a single USB drive, has spread rapidly through industrial computer systems around the world, raising suspicions of a state-sponsored attack.[10] Crnorizec (talk) 00:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Already nominated below. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment IT is worth noting that below it was nominated on the basis of being designed to take out Iran's nuke plant but since it was only a popular theory but was only a suspicion it was rejected. Now it is confirmed to be attacking rather vigurously Iran's nuke systems So We might need to reconsider. I am going to read my tech blogs and return as this might be ITN worthy now. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
oppose oops just saw the more recent below.... agree need more concrete evidence significance as my TechBlogs indicate it has infected 30,000 computers thats rather minute compared to some virus if it move beyond minor annoyance I'll support The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:46, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support this has been nominated 3 times in the last week. it seems fairly well established that most infections were in Iran. It is the first of such attacks against any country.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:27, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Other than 'there are lots of infections in Iran', what evidence exists that this was directed against any particular country? That's just speculation. On balance it may well be true, but it's still speculation. Modest Genius talk 15:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. It's an interesting story, but there just seems to be too much "oooh! aaahh!" speculation to really fit with ITN. We're not infallible, but we do try to only post stories which are rock-solid confirmed. Physchim62 (talk) 16:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. According to several sources it's the most complex computer virus ever detected (this is also what should go into the blurb). This fact alone makes it notable. Add to this the connection to one of the top international news subjects, the nuclear program of Iran, and the speculation by experts that only nation states would be capable of creating such a virus. It's both important and interesting, and about as notable as a computer virus can get. Offliner (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per Offliner. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral. I agree that it seems notable, but only by its nature, not its "suspected" purpose. We shouldn't be reporting speculation, which could put it in Iran out of coincidence just us much as purpose. Nightw 07:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Segway owner dies

Jimi Heselden, owner of Segway, millionaire, and philanthropist, dies from injuries apparently sustained from riding a Segway PT over a cliff, raising further concerns over the safety of the personal transporter.[11] Crnorizec (talk) 00:20, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

one other nitpick: "Raising further concerns over the safety of the personal transporter" the source doesnt say anything like that! It seems really simple that it is intelligent not to drive motor vehicle near cliffs.... The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:52, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Many sources cite safety concerns, here are a few: [12][13][14][15][16][17] Crnorizec (talk) 03:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
OK but I still prefer to think your part of a vast conspiracy involving Honda's Honda U3-X The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 03:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose - ITN's not there to make readers chuckle.  f o x  09:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Actually after so many deaths from natural disasters and whatever obscure or dictatorial leader gets (re)elected, this would be a good change of pace. Nergaal (talk) 18:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Sensational sack of Mayor of Moscow Yuri Luzhkov

(DW) (Xinhua) (Daily Mail) (RT) --TarzanASG (talk) 11:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose sure, it's getting headlines, but it's only the head of a subnational entity. ~DC We Can Work It Out 14:34, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
If they lost/won an election, then yeah. But this guy was booted out in a power grab. Blagojevich was on there YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 07:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - not to be a "but this" person, but Boris Johnson wouldn't hit the main page if he were sacked tomorrow.  f o x  14:44, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
If they lost/won an election, then yeah. But this guy was booted out in a power grab. Blagojevich was on there YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 07:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak support. I understand the concerns above, but Moscow is a pretty big city, Luzhkov has been mayor for well over a decade, and central governments stepping in to sack mayors of large cities is hardly an everyday occurence. I won't cry if this doesn't get posted, but it seems to be the sort of story we should at least consider. Physchim62 (talk) 16:57, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Leaning toward support. Physchim62 summed it up pretty well. In addition, the outspoken mayor has been at the center of several high-profile controversies - his article has an entire section devoted to these - and the article is in a reasonable shape. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:20, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support if the article is up to scratch. As someone who has lived in Moscow for 13 years this is stunning news. Luzhkov was a massive figure in one of the world's largest cities who wielded considerable power here. He reshaped the city in fundamental ways--he redesigned Red Square to prevent the old Soviet-style communist parades; he oversaw the building of vast amounts of infrastructure; he had the Christ the Saviour Cathedral rebuilt in central Moscow. He's continually been in the news over corruption charges, his opposition to gay rights, and his strong opinions on Russia's foreign affairs.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
By the way, the Venezuelan item has been removed due to its numerous tag decorations. We need to find a new item soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:30, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support this item without having looked too carefully at it. I've noticed this making big headlines, and the move is obviously extraordinary, Moscow is one of the world's most important cities, etc. __meco (talk) 18:44, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support I think we can post the sacking of the mayors of major world cities. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:08, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. It was already posted, but I'm still expressing my support. Luzhkov was among the most powerful politicians in Russia, and his dismissal is one of the most important political events in Russia this year. Offliner (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I'll defer to those more familiar with Russian politics and assume this is ITN-worthy. However, I have to say I don't understand how the mayoralty of Moscow is considered an ITN topic but not the mayoralty of London or the governorship of a big U.S. state. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
The mayoralty of Moscow may not be ITN-notable per se, but Luzhkov was one of Russia's top 5, if not top 3, politicians, and the longest-serving regional leader. Firing him is a daring move by President Medvedev and could have important implications for the Duma elections of next year. As a sidenote, I would expect governorship of a big U.S. to be ITN-notable as well. Offliner (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, if Arnie gets punted outside the election by Obama in a power struggle, then yes; People agreed on Fonseka being framed by Rajapaksa but the article was stuffed up, so it never went up. Support YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
ITN has already covered the unceremonious removal from office of the governor of a large U.S. state, so I don't really see what Mwalcoff is moaning about: we are talking about an unusal removal from office, not a routine election win/loss here. Physchim62 (talk) 00:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the mayor of London or NY, those mayors can't be 'sacked' in such a manner, though they can be removed from office via other means. Luzhkov's removal was very sudden and surprising--that adds to the notability. Still, I'm pretty sure if Mayor Bloomberg were to leave office in an unceremonious manner such as impeachment, it would be reported on ITN. As said above, this is a rather extraordinary removal, not a routine departure. Nobody is suggesting that mayors of cities (btw, Moscow's mayor is the equivalent of a governor in Russia's political system) in Russia will be automatic ITN items.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

September 27


  • This [18] [19] worm attack on nuclear facilities in Iran could have a very "interesting" development. It might be notable and unusual enough to wattant being on the ITN. Nergaal (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
It is currently being featured on DYK. Of course, it does not mean it cannot be featured on ITN again, but I think we should wait for something more conclusive. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


Venezuelan parliamentary election, 2010 was held yesterday. Hopefully results come soon. ~DC We Can Work It Out 05:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Do we normally post these kinds of elections? The presidential elections are the big ones in Venezuela, are they not? Nightw 06:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
No, presidential elections are not "the big ones in Venezuela". Chavez has controlled the legislature for five years, because the opposition handed him a victory by boycotting the 2005 elections. Now that has been reversed. Chavez has stayed in power, decreased independence of the judiciary, and consolidated power in the executive precisely because he controlled the legislature-- this is a significant change and defeat for him, and advance for democratic institutions in Venezuela. If the article is updated to include the results, and neutralize the POV, it most certainly is ITN worthy. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:54, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not notable enough for ITN. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 08:03, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Please explain-- have you read any sources? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Support election to a national legislature must be ITN material for countries the size of Venezuela... unless it's like... <chuckle> Suriname –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 09:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, with cleanup. The article is currently in a POV state (does not mention gerrymandering by Chavez), but it is certainly a significant election, not only in Venezuela wrt limits on Chavez's ability to control the legislature, his loss overall (52% went to opposition), but in terms of Chavez's global presence. We have reported less significant elections results for Chavez ITN in the past. See NYT, Los Angeles Times, The Associated Press, BBC and multiple mentions of gerrymandering on Google news. I suggest this is a very viable ITN candidate if the results can be added to the article, along with mention of the gerrymandering and violation of campaign laws by Chavez, to render the article more neutral. Even if the article remains POV, I haven't tagged it as such, because the results are worthy of ITN. Even without mention of the gerrymandering, Chavez was handed a defeat as far as a restriction on his ability to control the legislature (for now, that is). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:50, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

results are in Chavez Allies win big The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:54, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

There are still three seats to declare (por definir in Spanish), so we've got a bit of time to get the results on the page before posting to the template. I've got to go out for a while, but I'll try to do it later if no one beats me to it. Physchim62 (talk) 16:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support once the article is updated to include the official results. Article appears NPOV to me: if anyone wants to include mentions of alleged irregularities, that's fine by me, but could they please read (and understand) WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE first. An article is not necessarily POV simply because it doesn't include a single editor's personal political views. Physchim62 (talk) 14:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Who would be that "single editor" when scores of mainstream reliable sources mention the gerrymandering? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
It's the single editor who is pushing, both here and at WT:ITN, for the inherently PoV term "gerrymandering" to be used in the article to describe a redistricting of the kind that goes on regularly in most countries; an editor who seems to believe that Wikipedia readers need to be told what to think rather than being allowed to decide for themselves on the basis of facts that we have collated. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest of that single editor, but it doesn't make her any more correct or any less biased. Physchim62 (talk) 16:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Have you read the sources? They use the term. I've now added enough balance and MOS cleanup to the article to render it ready for the mainpage, although it still is skewed towards partisan sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:15, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Opinions (as in sources that use the term "gerrymandering") have to be notable as well, otherwise they are just words. There are plenty of ways of presenting the results (which are not complete yet, as noted above): I'm sorry that you seem to have made work for others in your partisan edits. Perhaps you should stick to the left-hand side of the Main Page, where at least your errors will be viewed by fewer readers. Physchim62 (talk) 17:25, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I know you hate FAC (wonder why); now, please stick to sources and stop personalizing issues here. Thanks, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Agreed, virtually all the news articles I have read use "gerrymandering". It's not just her opinion. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 17:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
I was working to neutralize the article based on numerous highly reliable sources, but Psychim62 reverted most of it, so I've tagged the article POV now. What a pity. Do y'all allow one editor to keep a worthy item out of ITN? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, now that I've read the article. Seems pretty noteworthy. The article seems fine to me also, although Chavez's article seems a bit anti. Nightw 15:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Oh dear, it seems we now have a "POV" tag looming over that article. Apparently Sandy felt her opinions weren't being given enough prominence. Nightw 17:50, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Apparently a multitude of reliable sources were summarily reverted by Psychim62. Do y'all personalize everything on this page? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:54, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
When we get PoV-pushers who have built a Wikipedia career out of wasting other editors' time, then yes. If you wish to comment on a contribution with suitable respect for the opinions of other contributors, please feel free to make the transition from the LHS to the RHS. Physchim62 (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Physchim62, you've been around long enough not to need a WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF or WP:NPA warning; please stop personalizing issues, and bringing your dislike of FAC into ITN and an article worthy of the mainpage. Having FACs archived is not a reason to take it out on me, or make disparaging remarks about me when my text is always reliably sourced. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Support clearly a notable event. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The blurb might be expanded to mention that he lost the popular vote (he retains a majority in the legislature partly due to the gerrymandering mentioned in reliable sources, but losing the popular vote is a major event). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:21, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

We'll decide the blurb when the article's ready, thank-you very much. We should present the Venezuelan election results in the same style as we present other election results, IMHO. Physchim62 (talk) 18:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment Isnt there a prohibition against articles with NPOV tags being on Main page ?--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
I hope so (but then that would allow readers who don't want the news of Chavez's defeat to revert neutral edits and keep the news out of the news, wouldn't it?) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Well placing {{POV}} tags on an article simply to prevent it getting on the Main Page is clear WP:DISRUPT, and we have a general and practical rule here that a single editor cannot prevent an article going up. Physchim62 (talk) 19:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Facts. I woke up this morning, checked the article, found it POV. I started balancing it, without adding the POV tag, precisely so I wouldn't interfere with ITN. You reverted all balance and highly reliable sources. Then I added the POV tag, which was warranted well before I came to see if it was on ITN. Who disrupted and who collaborated? Now, since Eraserhead fixed it, I believe the article is presentable for the mainpage, unless you plan to editwar. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry Sandy, but your word is not law here. Your whole attitude is evidence of your own PoV-pushing: "I woke up this morning, checked the article, found it POV. I started balancing it": OK, so you didn't think to talk about it first? In "balancing" it, you have included references which do not support your claims, and another reference which is obviously erroneous, as I have pointed out on the article talk page. In your attempts to "balance" the article, you have also wasted a lot of people's time which could have gone into providing official data for the elections, rather than simply repeating the misconceptions in other media. A little bit more humility on your part would have saved everyone a lot of hassle: please remember that in the future. Physchim62 (talk) 20:23, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
More incorrect charges from you, so unsure how humility will address your issues. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Hugo Chavez' United Socialist Party of Venezuela wins a majority of seats in the Venezuelan parliamentary election despite earning less than 50% of the majority vote. Something along those lines would probably work. Grsz11 23:04, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The "majority of the vote" seems unclear at the moment, as there were two separate ballots (one for individual candidates and one on a party list system), as someone has pointed out on the article talk page. As a holding blurb, how about:
That is accurate on the mostly complete results that we have. I certainly don't oppose modifying the blurb to mention the minority vote once it's independently confirmed, but I should point out that it is not usual to make such a disclaimer on ITN election results. Physchim62 (talk) 23:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
That is fine, except you might change "win" to "maintains" or something to indicate that part hasn't changed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:17, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Posted --Stephen 23:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Hugo Chavez', with the apostrophe hanging off the z, looks odd to me. Perhaps it should be Chavez's? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

It's an acceptable form per Apostrophe#Singular nouns ending with an “s” or “z” sound. --Stephen 00:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
  • This can be re-posted since the tags have been removed. ~DC We Can Work It Out 01:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Mazlan Othman

  • Mazlan Othman is appointed by the United Nations to be the space ambassador for extraterrestrial contact affairs[20] [21]
  • :Support the sheer novelty of this earns my support. We dont get off beat news of galactic importance The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC))
Support, per The Resident Anthropologist. "Sheer novelty" doesn't really do this justice. I assumed TRA was having a laugh, but the The Daily Telegraph seems very serious (it's not 1 April, is it? Nope, just checking...) The article mentions "space ambassador for extraterrestrial contact affairs" but could do with a wee bit of expansion. TFOWR 14:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, after the article is updated a bit. This is awesome. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 14:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC) Never mind... (per below) Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 16:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. That is so cool. Aw, what?! Nightw 15:38, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Sadly, not true. Sigh. Hektor (talk) 15:50, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppse per Hektor and the Washington Post. Shoddy British journalism that the U.S. has to set straight. :) Grsz11 15:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Sounded too good to be true... and it was. :-( TFOWR 15:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

September 26

Polish bus crash in Germany

At least 12 deaths after a bus crash near Berlin, Germany. Another 40 people were injured. [22][23] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 14:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Tragic and sad, Similar incidents occur too often; for instance all these in the last few days Saturday Friday thursday Wednesday Tuesday. The one on tuesday had over double the casulties The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 16:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 16:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

September 25


I think this report is ITN-worthy. Nergaal (talk) 19:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral at the moment but leaning towards oppose This is technically my area of expertise. Several initial observations, As far as i can tell this a third tier Journal it is only abstracted through springer and not affiliated with any Association. Secondly this is not a paradigm shift nor do i see it as catalyst for one in the near future. I am awaiting an Interlibrary loan of this Article referenced in the article to see exactly what it says. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:19, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
You mean this? Nergaal (talk) 20:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, its a third tier Journal, which means its not widely recognized right now as a terribly paradigmatic discovery. The information from makes it seem like the author is making big stretches with the evidence. It may be more clear in the Journal actual article thus i am not opposing it yet but playing sceptic. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:48, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
That sounds fair. Nergaal (talk) 22:09, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I read the news reports with interest, and it did strike me that the team were making a lot of suppositions to arrive at their interesting conclusion, which is why I didn't consider nominating it here. Physchim62 (talk) 01:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

oppose I just finished reading the article and its stretches the evidence too much for my comfort. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:06, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Ed Miliband

New Labour party leader of the opposition. (talk) 16:12, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Although this election is significant - Ed has a good chance of becoming the next Prime Minister - and although it was close, it is still an election for an opposition party of just one country, so its international significance is quite small. Franklinville (talk) 16:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: The candidates nominated in the US presidential election were in ITN, and that happens every 4 years while leadership elections tend to be much less frequent. I suggest ITN introduces a consistent policy. - (talk) 16:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
That's because we have so rabid commentators here who think that anything that happens in the U.S. must be important: it doesn't make them right, evn if we occasionally give in to shut them up for a few seconds. Physchim62 (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
And, in total, leadership elections of governing and opposing parties in parliamentary democracies happen far more frequently in the once-every-four-years candidacies in the United States. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:14, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
The Democratic and Republican for President get more media attention internationally. Plus, America has 5x the population of Britain. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Plus, Americans are best! USA! USA! USA! (talk) 20:50, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Too local. Physchim62 (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak Support if the timer becomes red - its more important than most of the other stuff here (the commonwealth games and Gennady Yanayev being exceptions) - though admittedly it is fairly local. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:49, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It's attracting a lot of attention, but it's not that significant. It's just a change in leadership in a political party. The only thing that's changed is who asks the most questions on a Wednesday morning. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose (as a Briton) - way too local for ITN. If and when Labour get into power, then sure.  f o x  21:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. There is no rule against "localness" on ITN, nor is "internationalness" a criterion. If it's of interest to enough people and meets all of the other criteria, than that's enough, period. We have a lot of readers from the UK, so a lot of people will be interested. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:49, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not of international interest, and probably not all that significant. It's fine to speculate and say that he will most likely become the next PM, but that doesn't make it actually so. If they win the next election, then we'll post. Nightw 06:06, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Opposition leaders come and go too frequently for them to be of real significance. --Mkativerata (talk) 06:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral, though I'd echo Mwalcoff. This 'too local' argument is sometimes applied in extreme. The head of the UK opposition party is certainly relevant to the entire United Kingdom, and is of interest beyond. It's not as if this event only affects the people of a small town somewhere.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Gennady Yanayev

Gennady Yanayev, the leader of the August Coup of 1991 which hastened the collapse of the Soviet Union died yesterday. [24] --TIAYN (talk) 15:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Support per nom. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:45, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Another old men. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:32, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I thought about this one, but the Yanayev article is very short. Oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:44, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Support assuming an appropriate article update. The fall of the Soviet Union is one of the most important events in the 20th century. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:48, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per BorgQueen and Eraserhead1. --candlewicke 23:25, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I disagree that the article is very short. Maybe it has been expanded? --candlewicke 23:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree that the article has now been expanded, though much of it needs some editing at this time. (Possibly simply copied and translated from the Russian article?). So that should be tidied up. And in the end, I"m still uncertain about a man whose main notability was for a brief moment in what was one of the more important events of the 20th century. The event is certainly notable, but was Yanayev? Both before and after the 1991 coup he's a fairly obscure figure. Among other things, the article doesn't say where he was born (in Gorky perhaps, now Nizhny Novgorod?)--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:38, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose This death, at old age, is not significant.--Mkativerata (talk) 23:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Support He was an extremely important person in Russian history, if Nelson Mandela or Fidel Castro died tomorrow would they not be featured in ITN because of old age? Fixman (talk!) 00:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Only the extraordinarily notable should get on ITN when the die of old age. This guy was a footnote in history. When Gorbachev dies, we can put him on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
  • On the grounds that ITN death criteria as currently written only require that 1. The deceased was in a high ranking office of power, and had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region. or that the death itself was significant, I'm willing to consider posting this. However, the writing in the later life and death section is less than brilliant. Someone would need to give it a thorough copy edit and add more well-referenced reaction to the death before I could seriously consider it, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
    • ITN/D is subject to interpretation and consensus, though. And this doesn't have the latter. --Mkativerata (talk) 04:43, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Given that he caused the collapse of the Soviet Union which meant that the whole of Central Asia stopped being communists. Which the led to the US becoming the world's only superpower. I don't really see how you can argue that he didn't have a "significant impact" on that region - or really even the world. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
I think it's a stretch to say Yanayev 'caused' the collapse of the USSR. He was one of the 'gang of eight' and the WP article says he wasn't the most important member. There are numerous individuals who played a greater role in the collapse of the Soviet Union (e.g. Eduard Shevardnadze, Andrey Sakharov--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, per all the other supports. Significant, interesting, and the timer is about to turn red. TFOWR 10:47, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment it looks to have been cleaned up. Is it ready for posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:45, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak support. Historically significant individual, even if it was mostly for something he tried and failed. However, this is one of those cases where a good article has to make up for less-than-dramatic notability, and the article isn't great. Modest Genius talk 16:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
He usurped the power from Gorbachiev, and technically was a president of the USSR even if only for 2 days. Support Nergaal (talk) 23:35, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Plane to Pakistan lands in Sweden after bomb threat

Oppose - all passengers are alive and with no hurts. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 13:37, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. This kind of thing happens more often than you might think. It's standard procedure to divert the plane for anything more than a broken fingernail. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - everybody's safe and sound. Besides, no major revelations have come out as of now. Best to wait, although I still don't think this is ITN material.--Mar4d (talk) 14:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

September 24


Oppose. Speculation. Not important. Nightw 05:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment. well its been called 'world's first known cyber super weapon designed specifically to destroy a real-world target'[26],[27]--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
No, I meant it's speculation as to what exactly it was targeting. Nightw 15:24, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Too much unconfirmed information and speculation for me to support. SpencerT♦C 18:59, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Witt v. Department of the Air Force

  • Johnson, Gene (Associated Press) (September 24, 2010). "Judge orders lesbian reinstated to Air Force - Case challenges 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy". MSNBC. Retrieved 2010-09-24.

Suggested. -- Cirt (talk) 21:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Support as this seems to be a controversial policy and presumably the air force has an international presence. --candlewicke 23:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose The timing is ironic due to the recent congressial vote, but not of international interest. Grsz11 23:52, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral we have Witt v. Department of the Air Force going on right now and Log Cabin Republicans v. United States of America plus Perry v. Schwarzenegger going on right now. I think we need to play our cards carefully here as all of these are coming into focus simultaneously. I Guarantee the Witt decision will be appealed thus its still a little preemptive to include it as a substantial victory yet.The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not a Supreme Court decision. SpencerT♦C 03:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Intermediate court judges looking to get in the news. If it gets to the Supremes, then it might be ITN worthy. --Mkativerata (talk) 04:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now'. This is significant, but we shouldn't post it until it's final, which would probably mean SCOTUS, even if that's a long way in the future. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanet Wind Farm

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Already being discussed below. How'd you miss it on the TOC? ~DC We Can Work It Out 19:47, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Electronic System for Travel Authorization

From 8th September 2010, US demands EU visitors pay an entry fee online by credit card.

"It's absurd that of all countries the US should tax people who are not represented. What about taxation without representation, that played a considerable role in US history," Electronic Travel Authorisation System (Esta) is a form of hidden visa, EU travellers who are refused by this system cannot board a plane to the US. US travel fee draws new dividing line with EU,, 24 Sept 2010 (talk) 10:40, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose not significant. Anyone who can afford to travel to the U.S. from Europe can afford a $14 (10 Euro) fee. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:39, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
What I really object to is those countries that charge you to leave. I tend to agree that this isn't ITN material. TFOWR 16:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Meh. It's a pain in the arse (speaking as someone who's only just travelled from the UK to the US), but it's not really Earth shattering. The alternative, paying for a visa, is commonplace. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:56, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The price of Gold

As the price of gold keeps rising, today it broke the $1,300/oz level in intraday trading for the first time in history. __meco (talk) 10:35, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

oppose gold is expensive? What a shock! Breaking news indeed! Any one have the number to Goldline International handy?The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, since I don't see $1300 as a particularly significant milestone, and if we posted it it would set an unfortuante precedent for posting something every time the price of anything crossed a random line. C628 (talk) 19:09, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose nope. Mar4d (talk) 14:33, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Commonwealth Games

  • The collapse of several parts of the stadium and the possible cancellation of the event - per YellowMonkey below. And its been on the Guardians front page for 2 days. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support First item on the news in every Australian and British and Indian outlet for the last two days, and counting. A bridge has fallen over, the ceiling at the weightlifting has fallen over, and the village is a giant toilet, with sewerage lying about, human and animal waste splattered on the beds and walls and everywhere, and unsealed electrical wires dangling everywhere, broken windows, tiles fallen off etc YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 06:56, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
support - It's been headline news for weeks now, with the withdrawal of several high-profile sportspeople. And why not, as Monkey put it bluntly, giant toilets are newsworthy :) (However I do need to stress that the blurb must be based on fact, and not speculation.) —Dark 07:09, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per YellowMonkey. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 07:48, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
There's a proposed hook listed in the Future events sub-page. Might want to check it out and see if its appropriate for ITN. ANGCHENRUI Talk 08:25, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
As a matter-of-fact, the event will be continued per the Indian authorities and will not be delayed or cancelled. Perhaps this ITN should appear on the first day of the Games? ANGCHENRUI Talk 08:27, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. As per today's headlines on BBC World organizers seem to have calmed the situation somewhat. Much can still happen in this story, so I think we should await further major developments, or the opening of the games, whichever comes first. __meco (talk) 10:31, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - once the games start. No problem with mentioning the very real issues that have dogged the Games, but I don't see any reason to report a "controversy" story now, instead of a "major sporting event opens" story on 3 October. TFOWR 10:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
...and I'd suggest that Concerns and controversies over the 2010 Commonwealth Games might be a good link to include alongside the main link. Article probably needs a lot of love - it's been WP:COPYVIO-central for a few days... TFOWR 10:49, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Support but when the games start. A good blurb would obviously mention the start of the games, and then we could have something going like "....amidst controversy" with these words (linked to the controversies article perhaps). Mar4d (talk) 12:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
2010 Commonwealth Games commences in India. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
(ALT): The 2010 Commonwealth Games commences in New Delhi, India, amidst various concerns and controversies. — ANGCHENRUI Talk 11:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC) (There's, erm, more comments on that page. Go see it.)
Support. I realise the Commonwealth Games are a pretty big event for India. It has even been on the news here in Finland. JIP | Talk 16:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Support iff they get canceled. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:02, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose publishing current "crisis" unless national teams withdraw wholesale, which seems most unikely at this stage: fear mongering by the press and administrators talking arrogantly about the standards their clients should be entitled to ("unfit for human habitation": has that guy seen how much of the world's population lives?) Eventually, nothing more will result from this other than a few extra building staff being drafted in for a hurried finish to the accommodation, and those who have been in change getting a rocket. Support routine announcement of Commonwealth games when they open.Kevin McE (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
It's not really Oppose right, more of Postpone until event opens. And also, the situation seems quite more grave than you described, but anyway that's what I gain from being continually shelled on the event from my news sources. ANGCHENRUI Talk 04:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
(to Kev) It's routine to have poo splattered around the place when hosting represenatives of foreign countries then? YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:42, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Let's not publish anything at least until the event commences (or in the unlikely case it gets cancelled). After all, things might take a different course in the next few days, we never know. Hopefully, a better one. ANGCHENRUI Talk 17:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. OK the facilities are not ready completely yet. So what. are the games cancelled or postponed. No (BBC)--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Its only a matter of time. People were complaining about Beijing because they had some algae to clean off the sea a few days before. The Indians haven't finished their stadiums yet - and the athletes are supposed to be arriving now. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Now. It's headline news; let's get it up there! Nightw 03:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Let's wait for the games to be cancelled. Oppose until then.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Okay, since there have been a few people who have opposed solely on the basis that only a cancellation would be worthy enough of publishing, the Recurring items page of ITN states that a few sports events are notable based on their having "already satisfied the 'importance' criterion for inclusion on ITN, every time they occur". The only impediment to their immediate publishing onto the Main Page is the need for the article to be "updated appropriately and proposed on the candidates page before being posted." The Commonwealth Games is listed as one of such events, as you can view here. The issue here as I can see is whether we should include a statement on the concerns/controversies; stating the commencement of this event is already a convention. Just to address some of the opposers' line of reasoning. ANGCHENRUI Talk 04:45, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't see the current situation as meeting the criteria on ITNR. By convention we report the commencement of events such as the Olympics or the CG. It's reasonable to conclude that we would report the official cancellation of said events. Neither has happened yet. I remain opposed for now. It is true that the games are now making headlines around the world but it's always been the policy at ITN with these kind of news stories to wait for a conclusion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:37, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I think we agree on the same thing, just that it's been expressed in a different way. I'm stating that the commencement of the event has to be reported; as for the situation, I'm saying its reportage should be discussed first. I guess it's about adding 'future' to this nomination ('future candidate' eh?). Cheers, ANGCHENRUI Talk 06:24, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I realize it's getting attention, but as of right now, no countries have pulled out, so there's no significance to the developments regarding the venues. Sure, we can post the opening ceremonies, but those are 8 days away. ~DC We Can Work It Out 06:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Which other major sporting event has anything like this occurred before? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I do agree with Eraserhead1, to the best of my knowledge this event seems to be the most ill-prepared and extensively criticised of any of such a magnitude. Business Insider just called it The Worst-Planned International Sports Event Ever, and TIME commented on whether it was going to be the worst WCG ever. It sure feels unsavoury – and might just fit the criteria for a negative occurrence, unfortunately. ANGCHENRUI Talk 08:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I see this story as being much like the recent papal visit to Britain (which was an ITN): it's news-worthy, when it happens, and we should mention the controversies surrounding it, but the controversies are not the story, just an incidental part of it. Something like "The 2010 Commonwealth Games starts in India, amidst controversy". (Hey! That's a blurb ready for 3 October! How prepared am I?!) TFOWR 08:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Haha, you blurb is good. I proposed a similar one a few days ago, you can check it out somewhere up there. I think though there has been a whole lot of coverage on the controversies, which you have to agree have wrecked the event greatly. I shudder to think of any other event which has been so negatively received. So in conclusion, yes we should mention the "controversies" in the blurb. ANGCHENRUI Talk 08:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Your blurb is better ;-) I was just trying to reuse the papal visit blurb, and going from memory. But yes, I think that's exactly what we want - mention the controversy, but the real news story is the opening. TFOWR 08:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Okay so this ITN will go live only in about 8 days' time I suppose? On 3 October. Cheers :) ANGCHENRUI Talk 08:53, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that there's consensus for now - the !votes seem to fall into three main groups: (a) Support (now), (b) Support (when it starts), and (c) Oppose (unless games are cancelled). Obviously, consensus can change but I'm not seeing strong enough consensus for posting yet. Then again, I'm the wrong person to make that call, because I've !voted for "support, but not yet"... I'd imagine another admin would make much the same call, however. TFOWR 09:01, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Okay but there will be reportage of the commencement of the event at the very least? That's the baseline. The thing now is whether we want to add more details than that. ANGCHENRUI Talk 15:00, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
It certainly looks like there's currently consensus to report this once the games start, yes. TFOWR 15:04, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
This is more notable than a storm and we are already having one of the latter every two weeks. Nergaal (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I disagree that the games are more notable than a storm which killed 72 people affected thousands.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:52, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
As cynical as it might sound, if in a part of the world there are five storms a year with that number we should not mention all of them. Cycling is a notable worldwide sport and it gets at most 3 posts a year, so why should South-East Asian storms get more? If a yearly major, worldwide competition is going through notoriously-difficult issues it is notable enough for ITN if all the five storms get on the ITN. Nergaal (talk) 23:39, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
So should we or should we not report in advance (before the event begins)? :O That is in essence what we are divided on. We can suggest appropriate blurbs if so. Best, ANGCHENRUI Talk 02:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Wait until the games start or they are canceled. It's been the practice on ITN to list things that happen rather than the lead up to them. I don't know what an ITN blurb would look like now. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Construction issues like this seem to happen at all Int'l competitions, especially in poorer countries. ~DC We Can Work It Out 00:18, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Like poo everywhere? YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:42, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Snakes are now slithering around in the village and venues YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 03:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support if/when they are cancelled. Something like The 2010 Commonwealth Games are cancelled due to incomplete work and concerns over unsafe conditions at competition sites. Grsz11 04:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Clean Cook Stoves Donation

US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton announced a public-private partnership called the Global Alliance for Clean Cook Stoves to which the US government will donate $50 million to increase the number of clean burning cook stoves in the developing world. [28] Crnorizec (talk) 22:25, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Worthwhile endeavor, but not a major news event or major policy change. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Mwalcoff. __meco (talk) 10:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I'll defer to Mwalcoff (not a major policy change) but the underlying issue is one that affects us all. This seems to have international relevance and interest. Put me down as neutral, possible support for now, I may firm up my !vote later. TFOWR 10:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment - Clean stoves IS a major policy change, with regard that the focus of the administration(s) so far has been in dumping more arms. Crnorizec (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose the U.S. has always given money to various causes, not sure why this is different. Also, $50 million is a drop in the bucket for America. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:04, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

September 23

Aafia Siddiqui

Pakistani women sentenced to 86 years in prison by a federal judge in New York for allegedly firing at US troops in Afghanistan. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 19:51, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose Just another conviction of another Alleged terrorist The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:00, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support widely watched case of an Massachusetts Institute of Technology trained Ph.D neuroscientist who is widely believed to be innocent in her home country of Pakistan. " Lady Al-qaeda" is perhaps one of the most educated of all alleged members of Al-qaeda and not your run of the mill "terrorist".--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose I question the international significance of this item. This has received no attention in Canada. As far as I can tell, this is just another sentencing. --PlasmaTwa2 20:53, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose insignificant.Also, if she was sentenced in U.S. Federal Court we don't need to say "allegedly". ~DC We Can Work It Out 20:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support She's been under international attention for quite a time. Her sentencing is a significant event - Mar4d (talk) 02:27, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
      • Completely unimportant. The giant toilet all over Delhi is more of a humanitarian disaster than the Pak floods at the moment YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
          • ??? what have you been smoking YM ;-) --Wikireader41 (talk) 02:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
The giant toilet in Delhi has been the first news item on BBC for two days. It should be on here YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:34, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
You mean the disasters related to the upcoming 2010 Commonwealth Games? The way you put it is highly psychedelic. ;-D --BorgQueen (talk) 02:53, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
The "giant toilet" should be proposed in another section IMO. Mar4d (talk) 05:05, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Appears to be a notable case - she was one of the FBI Most Wanted Terrorists not just another criminal, and the article is fairly thorough and extensive (which is always a plus). --BorgQueen (talk) 03:25, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment. Pakistans ambassador in US Hussain Haqqani is personally working to get her release /repatriated to pakistan.[29] Rioting in Pakistan in response to the sentencing.[30] Not to mention she is the most senior Al-qaeda member ever to be convicted in a court of law.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per the comments above. I should do my homework first. ~DC We Can Work It Out 19:25, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Great. Could anyone suggest a well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 21:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
'Lady Al-qaeda' Aafia Siddiqui sentenced to 86 years in prison by a court in New York.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:53, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
It was not prooven that she is a member of al-Qaeda, and she was convicted for attempted murder. Your blurb makes it sound like she was convicted of the former. Since she is a Pakistani citizen, it would also be prudent to mention the reaction in her home country, since that is why it appears to be noteworthy internationally.
The blurb should mention she was convicted in Federal court. ~DC We Can Work It Out 06:19, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Noted. I'll post this shortly. It'll be good to have a new story up while the timer is still healthy... TFOWR 09:49, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. Tweaked slightly, I didn't want to suggest that the attempted murder was by a federal court: courts tend not to attempt murder... ;-) TFOWR 10:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Typhoon Fanapi (2010)

- We have 59 fatalities now in Taiwan. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 17:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Support substantial death toll and tens of thousands exvacuated in China? Looks like a good canidate to me. Refs could be cleaned up a little thou The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:01, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Ready to propose a blurb? --Tone 20:22, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
How about "Typhoon Fanapi makes landfall in China after devastating Taiwan leaving at least 59 dead."? --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 20:32, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
After a quick look, I don't see the source for the 59 fatalities in Taiwan, while there is something mentioned at PRC. If there were fatalities in the mainland China as well, this should be mentioned. Once this is fixed, I'm ready to post. --Tone 20:37, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
im guessing that you are looking at the infobox as opposed to reading the impact section, where AFAICT the deaths are sourced.Jason Rees (talk) 21:18, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, at the end it says 54 dead and 42 missing. The number should match the one in the infobox (59)... I just wouldn't want to put a wrong number on ITN. --Tone 21:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Thats the China section though, if you read through the Taiwan section you should be able to get 5 more deaths. (its just not written well imo).Jason Rees (talk) 21:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The Taiwan section says early on "Three People died in Taiwan, on saturday, in accidents related to the Typhoon". Towards the end it says "another person was found dead, increasing the direct death toll to '2'". I'm not comfortable posting this yet, and I'd really like to have something to post soon. Any takers for a bit of updating? TFOWR 12:24, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Fatalities updated. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 18:02, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Ready to post. Typhoon Fanapi makes landfall in China, leaving 72 people dead. Is the blurb ok? --Tone 18:27, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Updated for the latest fatalities, which seem to check out OK now. Otherwise untouched. Tone, you'll know better than me - is piping PRC to "China" OK for ITN? Otherwise, I'm happy with the blurb. TFOWR 18:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
In that case, I'll use Mainland China - as we mention Taiwan in the same sentence it should be perfectly ok. --Tone 18:39, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Posted. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 09:32, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

  • I think people should start thinking about setting a threshold for these storms. There is essentially a storm at least every two weeks, and to be honest I remember more than a couple in the past few months from Taiwan. Do we really want to have so many of them even though they are really not that unusual (even the number of victims is always around 30-50). 19:17, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
  • If there's one thing we need it's more stories, not less. ~DC We Can Work It Out 17:27, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanet Wind Farm

Oppose Greater Gabbard wind farm is the world's largest offshore windfarm but under construction. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 15:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Support as that isn't due to be finished until 2012. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Meh it does not break any notable threshold (from 200MW to 300MW), it is the boggest offshore windfarm. The largest is at 700MW, Roscoe Wind Farm. When Toy Story 3 was the first animated movie to break 1 billion, people opposed, and I think this is a similar situation. Nergaal (talk) 20:17, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
If its not the biggest windfarm overall I change to oppose. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

September 22

New Dinosaur

Researchers announce the discovery of the Kosmoceratops poossesing an ornate head with fifteen SpikesGaurdian The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:35, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

And Utahceratops and Vagaceratops too. I have a suspicion that we've had a lot of dinosaur announcements on ITN in the last few months though? --Stephen 23:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Cool pix we could use in Commons makes a good free Thumbnail we can use with it (Full discosure: i just uploaded it )The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Support for Kosmoceratops, but the other two articles are too short at the moment. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:59, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nom--Wikireader41 (talk) 00:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

not that i am opposing but didnt we just have a new dino a couple weeks back. -- Ashish-g55 00:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

So far there has been no serious objections, the article is in a reasonably good shape, and the timer is red. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:06, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
  • The discovery was announced in the online open-access journal produced by the Public Library of Science. Is that a notable journal? If not, I doubt we should feature publications submitted to less recognized journals. Nergaal (talk) 20:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Done some digging and its a younger one but a Reputable one.The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Gaza flotilla raid

A specially-appointed UN panel has found that the IDF broke international law and that there is sufficient evidence for prosecutions for contraventions of the Geneva Convention.[31] --Mkativerata (talk) 20:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I recognize the importance of this issue, but this kind of seems like routine news to me. The UN always blasts Israel in these things, and this was hardly a surprise as the panel didn't interview any of the Israelis. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:08, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - The incident was certainly very notable, the coverage of the report on it has not been though and it sounds like it basically says what was said at claimed at the time anyway. Also there are potential problems with the report itself. BritishWatcher (talk) 23:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The report simply states the blindingly obvious, there's no real news story until the marines and their commanders are indicted before a court of law. Physchim62 (talk) 16:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Physchim62. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Flu Shot

Weak support. The abstract of the original paper is here. It is difficult to write an accurate blurb: it would be something like "Lincolnshire scientists show that, for people over 40 years old, vaccination against influenza is associated with a 20% lower risk of heart attack in the following year." I say "Lincolnshire" scientists because I'm originally from Lincolnshire myself ;)
There is no formal causal effect in the study; it is merely assumed that the vaccne lowers the risk of respiratory illness and that respiratory illness is correlated with heart attacks. Physchim62 (talk) 16:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
In that case, I'm not sure "evidence getting vaccinated keeps you healthy in the long run" is really breaking news! Shimgray | talk | 18:02, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
weak oppose. this is retrospective data. would be erroneous to assume Cause and effect as pointed by Physchim. One possibility could be people who are health conscious and get flu vaccine tend to have healthy habits ( and listen to their doctors) which prevents heart attacks ;-). agree we need more Health news in ITN--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
How much attention is this getting in the media? Is it front page news? I ask because there are always stories like this somewhere, and theoretically we could run one every day. I think we should limit ourselves to those stories that the media makes a big deal out of, like the release of Smoking and Health: Report of the Advisory Committee to the Surgeon General of the United States in January 1964 (which was big news at the time). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak support Neutral I heard about this on my local evening newscast and on CBS Evening News, but I haven't heard much about it outside of then. Seems interesting, at the very least. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:56, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Upon reading and reflecting on the comments above once more, I'm not so sure it's that significant. I won't oppose, but am changing my vote to netural. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

September 21

Vatican Bank

It's under investigation for possible money laundering by Italian authorities. There's an update here but more is needed. Also note that €23m (about $30.5m/£19.5m) has already been seized. Not the first time the bank has been caught in a scandal. ~DC We Can Work It Out 20:48, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

support thats really interesting The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:50, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Support; I think the high profile of the bank and the fact that it's already had consequences--namely, the siezing of money--make it valid to go up. Also expanded the update. C628 (talk) 01:01, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nom. the timer is pretty red.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: the update looks good to me. Need a blurb, though. TFOWR 01:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
How about "Italian police announce that two officials from the Vatican Bank are being investigated and €23 million euros have been siezed as part of an inquiry into claims of money-laundering." Might be a bit wordy, and I'm not thrilled with the word "inquiry," but I wanted to avoid using "investigation" twice... C628 (talk) 02:22, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
How about "Italian authorities seize €23 million in assets from the Vatican Bank amidst an investigation of alleged money laundering." It way it seems ready to post, and there is a consensus to do so. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose This is only an investigation, no charges have been made, so there must be a presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. --Stephen 02:38, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
That's not an ITN criteria. And the seizing of 23m EUR is notable. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Posted as there is consensus and an updated article. No presumption of innocence is being offended here - we, as is the news, are reporting action taken by police in respect of alleged activities.--Mkativerata (talk) 03:18, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
I have to step away for a bit. I'll deliver the credits in a few hours, unless anyone (doesn't have to be an admin or even an uninvolved editor) wants to do it in the meantime. It seems: nomination credit to DC, update credit to C628.--Mkativerata (talk) 03:21, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
I gave C628 theirs. ~DC We Can Work It Out 04:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks heaps - I'm back now (earlier than I thought) so yours has been delivered too. --Mkativerata (talk) 04:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

UN General Assmbely Convenes

United Nations convenes for its 65th general assembly in New York. NPR The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:36, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah template was in the red so nomed itThe Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:51, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Recession ended and currently in a "new" recession

I wasnt going to nom this but it made the BBC so it seems to be of international interest BBC I am unsure how to write a blurb for it. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. This purely refers to the US. Recessions in other parts of the world are ongoing, ended years ago, or in some cases never happened. We can't go posting each and every one of them. Besides, economic growth estimates are notorious for being revised after the fact (and varying between assessors), and this one is a year after the events it deals with. Modest Genius talk 14:09, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. Well said. --Tone 14:23, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Agree with Modest Genius. Nightw 14:26, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as old news. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:02, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 12:13, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

September 20


An all-party Indian team of MPs from Delhi make their first visit to Kashmir in two decades and some of them have met with Syed Ali Shah Geelani. BBC I don't what the article is. --candlewicke 15:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment. we do have an article on 2010 Kashmir unrest but it is a mess presently.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:19, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Drone attacks

Oppose Drone attacks in northwest Pakistan are not new. Mar4d (talk) 14:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes but September has seen an unprecedented dramatic surge in these controversial strikes with more than 70 killed in more than a dozen strikes already.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

BP Spill Fixed

BBC well we said we will post it one last time once relief wells are done and its all finally over. -- Ashish-g55 13:14, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Uh, isn't this the same as #BP Well, below? ;-) TFOWR 14:19, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
yes it is. dont know how i missed that. ignore this people just comment below :) -- Ashish-g55 14:36, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

TIFF People's choice award

The King's Speech wins People's choice award at the Toronto International Film Festival. ITN/R. one of 4 film festivals agreed on last year. -- Ashish-g55 03:08, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Support I was about to nominate this myself. The article just needs the standard quote or two for the update. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nominator. --candlewicke 03:22, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per ITN/R. --PlasmaTwa2 03:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nominator.--Wikireader41 (talk) 13:31, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: could do with an update - there's only a sentence about the TIFF... I assume that Ashish's first sentence would be the blurb?:
@ Smarter folk than what I am: I've linked to TIFF twice: once for People's Choice Award (section), and once for TIFF itself. This seems ugly - any better suggestions? (never mind, linked to 2010 TIFF instead. Tweaks still very welcome). TFOWR 14:25, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
its an award win. dont know what else could be added except the fact that the movie won the award. i can put some random quotes from critics if needed. -- Ashish-g55 14:40, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
At present the win is mentioned in the lead, but not in the article. I'd also like to see TIFF wiki-linked. It's maybe too soon for a "reception" section (where awards would normally go, I assume?) but it should certainly be covered in the "release" section. Quotes from critics, if available, would be very useful. TFOWR 14:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
OK, there's been an update, but as I was partly responsible I'm probably not the best person to assess whether it's sufficient... TFOWR 18:03, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I'd consider that sufficient enough. There isn't a hell of a lot you could add outside of a couple sentences saying it won, anyway. --PlasmaTwa2 18:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

September 19

2010 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship Final

Nominating this because it is listed at ITN/R as the highest level of Gaelic football (but that is just a guide). Anyway... the other footballs (Association, American, Australian, Canadian, etc.) are listed there as well, the article is updated in this case, the event is mentioned in the portal and it now just requires opposes and supports. The winning team last won this in 1990 as well if that helps. RTÉ Sport BBC Sport The Irish Times --candlewicke 23:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Support It is ITN/R and I'm definitely going to be nominating the National Rugby League final in two weeks.--Mkativerata (talk) 00:14, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose AFL and Gaelic football. Sport played by one country with almost no imports from other countries. I'd be very suspicious of NRL too, since almost entirely a one-nation tournament except some Kiwis YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Technically or politically the losing side is based in the UK so more than one country. :-) --candlewicke 02:39, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Support it's interesting. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Support: Gaelic football is closely related to International rules football, which in turn is closely related to Australian rules football. In addition to the international relevance, I'm supporting per DC: interesting. TFOWR 18:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Not sure, but leaning oppose as of now. I'd suggest that there would be more interest in the 2011 BCS National Championship Game than this-30.8 million people watched on TV [32], which is nearly seven times the population of Ireland. SpencerT♦C 00:31, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Not only is it interesting, it's pretty well-watched outside of the Isles. Nightw 14:00, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
I think this can go up - it has a rough consensus support and is ITN/R. And the timer is red. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:56, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Noooo!!! How can this be rated ahead of one of the three grand tours of cycling??!!? YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:19, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
It's not, really. Vuelta has unanimous support, apart from an idiot who might oppose but hasn't stated a firm opinion either way. Right now (with a red timer) I'd be up for either or both being posted. TFOWR 01:23, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
They ought to be considered in isolation - I'd be fine with both going up. There is one difference: this item is supported by ITN/R; the cycling item isn't.--Mkativerata (talk) 01:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
I'd say ITN/R is a silly list. Were they all approved by some rough multi-user means?? cycling, a major world sport, has the same as AFL, which is played by half a country. RL also has more scheduled events than cycling. The WC in cycling/swimming etc are also unlisted/below NRL/AFL [shakes head] YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:03, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Posted. --Stephen 02:24, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Slovenia floods

  • Floods affect great part of Slovenia, causing damage and disrupting the transport routes.
One of the worst floods in recorded country's history, major damage but luckily no fatalities reported. The capital is affected as well. This year is really generous with floods. --Tone 21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose not really that significant. ~DC We Can Work It Out 23:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per DC. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 23:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Seems bad for Slovenia. Bare URLs in the references section but that probably isn't very difficult to fix. --candlewicke 23:49, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. We really have had a deluge of flood stories this year, about one a month: we need to say stop to some of the smaller ones in order to keep variety in the stories we post. Physchim62 (talk) 00:49, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, probably we need to limit the amount of flood stories. I'll take it to DYK instead. Could anyone run a bot to convert the references? Thanks. --Tone 07:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Just tried Reflinks, but keep getting an edit conflict. Can't see why... I'll try again in a wee while. TFOWR 08:18, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
  Done TFOWR 08:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! --Tone 08:40, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Philippe Croizon

Support per nom - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 20:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Maybe DYK instead? I feel it is more appropriate for there. --Tone 21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Significant achievement made all the more significant by the swimmer being a quadruple amputee. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per nom --Wikireader41 (talk) 22:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Swimming the English Channel is one of those things that seems to hold international interest. This instance seems all the more interesting, due to the swimmer being a quadruple amputee. And isn't 14 hours pretty impressive anyway? TFOWR 22:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:57, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: not keen on the "despite" part of Physchim62's blurb. How about:
Or am I being too politically correct? TFOWR 23:18, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. Not to step on your toes, TFOWR, but I'm conscious of the red timer. I re-ordered your blurb a little, but now I'm not entirely happy with it. Tweaks or suggestions welcome. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:26, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Step on my toes any time - I take your point about the red-ness. I think your version is better, but it's a tough one - I wasn't happy with mine, either. TFOWR 23:31, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
We could possibly drop the "completing the task..." part. ~DC We Can Work It Out 23:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Lörrach hospital shooting

Many deaths after a women open fire in a hospital in Germany. [33] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Four is not "many". As usual, the article was created prematurely, but this might turn out to be notable. It's too soon to tell. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:51, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Is not sure if are 4 or more. Although, a shooting in a hospital is really notable.- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Two dead, one of whom was the non-notable nutcase with a gun. Too local. Physchim62 (talk) 20:25, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. --Tone 21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Physchim62. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Physchim62. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 23:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Too local. Oppose. Article should be AFD'dded. Has its Wikinews equivalent: n:Armed woman kills four in German hospital --Diego Grez (talk) 23:54, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree with you. Article should be deleted per Wikipedia:WIDESPREAD. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 00:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Just a note, after this discussion, I AfD-ed the article. The major opinion seems to be for keep but you may still comment. --Tone 16:13, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

19 September 2010 Baghdad bombings

At least 31 deaths, 100+ injured after today's attack. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 18:37, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Support Notable enough for ITN. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 23:56, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose a bombing in Baghdad? Haven't heard that before. ~DC We Can Work It Out 23:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Support if improved. --candlewicke 00:06, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Support DC, of course you have heard of a bombing in Baghdad before. And under no circumstances do I see that any bombing there is deprecated as unimportant. 31 deaths, 100 + injured - that's a fairly large casualty size as well. Support for inclusion. Mar4d (talk) 00:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, post as soon as possible. Nightw 13:57, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Support article is at AfD though.--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

BP Well

The well responsible for the largest oil spill in United States history is permanently sealed at a depth of 18,000 feet. LA timesFinacial times The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:37, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Support, assuming that it really is permanent this time. Although according to this list there was a larger one in 1910. I've never heard of it, though. Nightw 18:17, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
interesting indeed, I was merely parroting the LA Times The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:49, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, now that I've actually read the article — the source makes the distinction "largest offshore oil spill". The Lakeview Gusher was on land. So that makes sense now. Nightw 18:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral, we've already reported on the topic, not much has changed since (the oil has not been leaking for a while). --Tone 21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)


In cycling, Vincenzo Nibali from Italy, wins the Vuelta a España. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 15:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Support One of the three major European professional cycling stage races and part of the 2010 UCI World Ranking. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 15:58, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: I'm tending towards oppose, as it's not listed on WP:ITNR, and we've had a lot of sport recently. Good blurb, though - I appreciate a good blurb, and particularly when it accompanies the initial nomination. TFOWR 16:39, 19 September 2010 (UTC) Striking part: see comment below. TFOWR 01:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
No opinion on this nomination, but ITN/R shouldn't be the standard by which we measure items—it's more a convenient list of possibly ITN-worthy items than anything else and I've seen several events listed there shot down when nominated here. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support one of hte three majors YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:29, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment #2: given the redness of the timer, and my support for more sport elsewhere, my comment above can be ignored (I've struck it). I'm neutral on this, leaning towards support on the basis of a red timer, a good blurb, and a picture. TFOWR 01:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Posted, without picture though as it's a bit low down. --Stephen 02:16, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support as sports have not been featured prominently lately. Nergaal (talk) 20:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Swedish election

Results are expected at about 22:00 CEST. Support if it results in a change of government./Coffeeshivers (talk) 09:24, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I don't see how every general election notable enough for ITN. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 08:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Strongest possible support once the results are published. Are you kidding me? This is a historic election in Sweden. We either get the first female prime minister, or the first rightwing government to win a second term. Theleftorium (talk) 09:30, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
About your second point: Swedish general election, 1976 and Swedish general election, 1979 were won by the same parties, although there was some resignations etc in between. But in 1979, the people did chose to stay with a rightwing government. If the current government stays in power that is not historical. Possibly ITN-worthy anyway, though./Coffeeshivers (talk) 09:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Depends on how you count. Between the First and second cabinet of Fälldin, there was the liberal cabinet of Ullsten.P. S. Burton (talk) 16:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
That's my point. If it depends on how you count, it is not historical. Then it is just splitting hairs to make something non-notable sound notable./Coffeeshivers (talk) 21:27, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree P. S. Burton (talk) 22:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
At least for me the whole point of opposing blanket election inclusions was to avoid posting elections of small island and city states which have tiny populations - so posting the elections in countries like Luxembourg, Andorra and Suriname shouldn't happen - but largish countries like Sweden should still be posted per WP:ITNR. Sorry if I was unclear before :(. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
WP:ITNR specifically states "All countries which are members of the UN, and other sovereign states on the list of countries", which is something I firmly agree with. They may be tiny, but they're still nations with their own significance. It'd be absurd to set an arbitrary cut-off on population. Nightw 16:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Let's bear in mind that at ITN we don't post all national elections necessarily; they must meet the update requirement. Many of the small island states' or city states' elections don't get a sufficient update and they are not posted as a result. If, however, a suitable WP page is made for an election, I see nothing wrong with posting it, even if it's from Luxembourg.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:24, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Also, "the main centre-right party, the Moderates, could oust the Social Democrats as Sweden’s biggest single party—for the first time since the 1930s."[34] Theleftorium (talk) 11:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support Sweden has a population of 9 million as well as a large number of fluent English speakers. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:39, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support We always include national elections. There is a strong precedent for this. P. S. Burton (talk) 13:12, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. I am sure a parliamentary election in Sweden is notable enough to be mentioned. JIP | Talk 14:07, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - definitely an important event. Mar4d (talk) 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong support: Obvious notability. Nightw 16:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: could someone get a blurb ready for 22:00 CEST / 20:00 UTC? I'd suggest this could be posted once the article is updated, post-results. On a different topic, can I remind you all to use ":" instead of "*"? Use "*" to highlight blurbs. Thanks! TFOWR 16:37, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't writing a blurb require knowledge of who won the election? JIP | Talk 17:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I'd suggest something like what was done while we were waiting for the Australian election results - get a couple of alternatives ready, one for an Alliance victory, one for a Red-Green victory. TFOWR 17:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
First suggestions:
JIP | Talk 18:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support; I'm generally in favor of all national elections being posted. Also, the bit about the female prime minister in the second blurb sounds awkward to me; maybe reword it as "...xx% of the votes, giving the country its first female prime minister in history"? C628 (talk) 18:44, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: If the exit polls are at all reliable, we can forget about the female prime minister. The most interesting thing that could come out of this election is the far-right Sweden Democrats possibly ending up holding the balance of power. If that happens, it certainly deserves notice. Lampman (talk) 19:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Any results already? --Tone 21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Not that I'm aware of - The BBC are still reporting exit-polls. I agree with Lampman that the Sweden Democrats angle is interesting, but the BBC suggest a coalition of the Alliance and Red-Greens is more likely - so no "Kingmaker" role for the SD, but no news for us, either. TFOWR 21:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
With 96% of votes counted, this does indeed seem to be the result. The Alliance will probably not cooperate with the Sweden Democrats, but the fact remains that they will influence the composition of the next government, which is notable enough in itself. Lampman (talk) 22:03, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
The BBC are now reporting that the Alliance have been 'narrowly re-elected'. Using JIP's blurb:
Not posting, as I think we need to tweak the blurb to explain how they won without a majority. TFOWR 22:31, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
We should also avoid giving the percentage. The important thing is who won and who will form the government. --Tone 22:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Right now I think we might be looking at a hung parliament. a hung parliament occurs when neither major political party (or bloc of allied parties) has an absolute majority of seats in the parliament (legislature). P. S. Burton (talk) 22:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Agree - that should have occurred to me. @P. S. Burton: the Social Democrats have conceded, the Alliance are looking to a coalition with the Greens, and the Red-Greens had already said that they'd form a coalition with the Alliance ahead of the Sweden Democrats. The BBC are reporting it as a done deal. TFOWR 22:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm watching Swedish Television now. All votes are now counted, however, it's far from a done deal. Both Alliance minority rule, and Alliance with the support from the Greens is possible. There will be tough negotiations. P. S. Burton (talk) 22:51, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough - makes sense. There's a case to be made for posting now with an Alliance victory, but I'd prefer to hold off until we have something concrete in terms of minority rule/greens. TFOWR 23:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I think we can post the results now, since it's now clear percentage vise and we have a new parliament. The rest won't be know until parliament (Riksdag) elects the speaker and he suggests a prime minister to parliament, most likely Reinfeldt. If confirmed by parliament he then forms a cabinet (Regering), with members of the Alliance, and possibly the Greens. P. S. Burton (talk) 23:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note I'm not entirely happy with the update. There's plenty on the opinion polls, but very little on the result itself. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

All 5,668 districts are in, the Alliance has 172 or 173 seats, out of the 175 needed: BBC Reuters Dagens Nyheter. The only element of insecurity is the detailed count, including advance votes, but this shouldn't be enough to upset the result. If administrators are uncomfortable posting this, I would suggest including a modifier such as "appears to have". Lampman (talk) 01:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm willing to post as soon as the article is updated... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:49, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I updated it with the results available. A full table like the 2006 one may be a little while into the future though. Lampman (talk) 02:06, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Not perfect, but good enough. Posting. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:08, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Nationalist Sweden Democrats is too weak a way of putting it. I want to change it to "far-right Sweden Democrats." Far-right (extremhöger) is a term widely used by media and by spokespeople of the other parties now, during the national shock at an anti-immigration party getting into the Swedish parliament, for the first time ever. It's also widely used internationally: "Nightmare rise of far right shocks Sweden", notes today's Financial Times. More: watching Swedish TV (SVT) yesterday, I believe I saw every leader of the other parliamentary parties (except possibly Maud Olofsson) refer to the Sweden Democrats as a "xenophobic" ("främlingsfientligt") party. It was the very first sentence I heard out of the mouth of Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt. "Nationalist" is really making the brief definition of SD too cosy. I wouldn't use xenophobic itself on our Main Page—not encyclopedic enough, IMO, though it would do well enough in the article, sourced—but far-right, I certainly would. OK? Can I change it? Bishonen | talk 16:32, 21 September 2010 (UTC).
Unsurprisingly, there's no response yet, which is my own fault; sorry I was so late for the party. I'm making the change, in the hope that my argument above is found persuasive. If not, revert me. Bishonen | talk 17:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC).
No objection from me: since the Alliance are described as centre-right "nationalist" probably didn't really explain the Sweden Democrats satisfactorily. TFOWR 17:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

September 18

Afghanistan parliamentary elections

Polls close in the Afghan parliamentary election, 2010. Several Taliban attacks, claims of fraud, but officials consider them as being a limited success. Suggested blurb: Amidst Taliban attacks and claims of fraud, polls close in Afghanistan's parliamentary elections. C628 (talk) 14:35, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Suggest we wait for results. Otherwise, article appears to be in great shape. SpencerT♦C 15:08, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

September 17

HIV precursor

it's interesting, but I'm not sure how significant it is. ~DC We Can Work It Out 20:45, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral this could be worthy of inclusion, but I need some more persuading. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:46, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support This is the kinda discovery that requires text books to be rewritten. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 01:53, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Neutral. My immediate reaction to this is 'so what?'. Having since read the SIV article, I still don't see the significance. I'm no expert, so I won't oppose, but I don't see what relevance this has to human HIV & AIDS. Modest Genius talk 02:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Its not the type of news thats Gonna help cure HIV, but it radically alters our understanding of the virus and its evolution from common monkey virus to human killer.The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:50, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment well this is not important in the sense that it will lead to an immediate cure but extremely interesting still IMO. The story underscores the link between a highly lethal human virus and a widely prevalent relatively benign monkey virus. Also exemplifies Darwinian Natural selection theory. When a deadly virus kills off vulnerable hosts it will over the millenia select out individuals who are resistant to it so that eventually majority of the population becomes immune to the harmful effects of the virus ( as monkeys seem to have become to SIV). and also underscores the risks when viruses jump species. Swine influenza being a similar somewhat less lethal example. Plus once again shows to non believers how close we are to monkeys genetically ;-)--Wikireader41 (talk) 06:17, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Seems important enough and there isn't a lot of this topic on ITN. Also per The Resident Anthropologist if this is the case. --candlewicke 14:17, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Significant, rare discovery, proves that someone had sex with a monkey. ~AH1(TCU) 17:07, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment could be . more likely a Bushmeat eater got it because they cut themselves while killing a monkey and cutting it up.--Wikireader41 (talk) 17:22, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: article update seems good to me, but I'm biased by timer-colour. Any chance of a blurb, good people? TFOWR 18:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, per above, and suggest changing "closely-related" to "a predeccesor," makes it clearer that this discovery has implications for both diseases. C628 (talk) 18:25, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
It's maybe my complete lack of knowledge in this area, but "predeccesor" makes it sound like SIV existed before, or evolved into, HIV. Is there a medical term we could link to to explain the word to idiots like me? TFOWR 18:32, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
"Predecessor" would be incorrect. The current SIV virus is not (and cannot be) the predecessor of the HIV that infected a few Califormians thirty years ago, and hence led to the discovery of both viruses. What the study shows is that the ancestor of the current SIV extends back 100-times further than previously thought. Th implication (and it's only that) is that the history of HIV is also much longer than the hundred years or so that the textbooks say at the moment. Physchim62 (talk) 18:39, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
(ec) Posted. I used Physchim62's wording (with a bit of modification), as I do not know if the term "predeccesor" is a correct term for this case. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:40, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
@Physchim62, I'll trust you on that, I'm not as familiar with medical terminology. C628 (talk) 18:43, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
It's not so much the terminology of medicine but of evolutionary biology, but hopefully that will save us from WP:ERRORS ;) Physchim62 (talk) 18:55, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
I think the current blurb is fine but would reiterate that the mainstream view is that HIV evolved from SIV, then infected some humans in Africa from where the pandemic spread ( and therefore It is accurate to say that SIV is a precursor/predecessor of HIV)[35][36]--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:17, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Now we have this complaint. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:06, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
I think he is right. Predecessor is an accurate term. would suggest tweaking the blurb and replacing 'closely related to' with 'predecessor of'. The article Origin of AIDS goes into some details of this issue--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:57, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Bicentennial of Chile

Chile is celebrating its bicentennial tomorrow. Great celebrations all over the country are taking place, while a four-days holiday (from Sep 17th until 20th) lets citizens celebrate it freely. I'm working on an article about the event on my userspace (User:Diego Grez/Bicentenario de Chile) and I thought it would be good to nominate it before someone beats me to it :) Cheers, Diego Grez (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose this is something for OTD or DYK. Putting this on here would be the equivalent of putting Christmas or Thanksgiving up. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:43, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I disagree with that. Not every day a country celebrates its bicentennial. Christmas and Thanksgiving are not "as unique" as the celebration of the Bicentennial of Chile. --Diego Grez (talk) 16:50, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree it's not the same as the annual holidays. But I'd really suggest DYK in this case, the article will be ready by then, I suppose. I don't remember similar cases, otherwise... --Tone 17:09, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Mexico just celebrated it's bicentennial, did it not? This kind of thing is more suited for DYK. --PlasmaTwa2 17:13, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Could go well on OTD, but I'm not sure it's ITN material. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:31, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose sorry Chile isn't important enough. I'd be prepared to consider supporting a centennial of a BRIIC or the US/EU/Japan. And maybe a millennial of more countries, but even then I don't think Chile is important enough :(. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:43, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Beg, pardon? --Diego Grez (talk) 00:32, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
IMO this is a totally unfair reason to oppose. Modest Genius talk 02:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Can someone produce a list of "important" countries so we can discuss this drama here and not produce anymore drama here? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I apologise for this oppose - it wasn't appropriate. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
You should strikethrough it then. Nightw 15:49, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
  Done -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 15:51, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Support I recall how big Australia's bicentennial was - it was no anniversary, it became a historical moment in and of itself. Chile is a significant country and this is a significant milestone for more than OTD or DYK. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:34, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I wonder how Chile is a significant country? --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 18:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Lol, are you kidding me? It's the main copper producer in the world. Produces the best wines and overall has the best beaches for surfing. What else do you want? Diego Grez (talk) 19:05, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, Bicentennial of Chile is not a story of international interest. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 19:09, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
But the murder of a nobody and the (yet common for a millennium) fights on Israel and Pakistan and whatever are... --Diego Grez (talk) 19:12, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Diego, you had chance to oppose murder of nobody. Where you were? --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 19:20, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for the moment - instead it should be mentioned in OTD. If some major event happens then I'll reconsider, but simply celebrating an anniversary is not notable enough in itself. Modest Genius talk 02:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Diego, can you provide some media sources for us? Mexico also celebrated its bicentennial the day before this. If the two celebrations have gained enough media attention, perhaps a combined entry might be justified. It's pretty historic in my book. Nightw 15:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

As the World Turns era ending

Longest-running current soap opera in the world, viewed all over the world, ends today at 13,858 episodes on CBS. [1]

Possibly support...I haven't looked into how exactly big of news this is (how wide of coverage it is receiving), but with it being the longest running in the world, it seems worthy. If it has received wide coverage, consider this a full support. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose sure, it's the longest-running (54 years), but only because General Hospital (70 years) was canceled last year. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:10, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I'll go with oppose as well, maybe I'd consider it on a slow news day but we have other things going on now. --Tone 17:09, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Not sure as of now. If there was a well-written update in the article, I may support, but there seems to be no section about the soap opera's end. SpencerT♦C 20:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Imran Farooq assassination

Murder of a prominent Pakistani politician sparked violance in Karachi, Pakistan. --Saki talk 08:45, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Strong support. Karachi is already under lockdown. Very serious incident. __meco (talk) 10:16, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Foreign politicians being murdered in London is hardly an everyday event, and the repercussions in Pakistan seem ITN-worthy. Physchim62 (talk) 10:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. A well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:22, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Ongoing news in the current media. Mar4d (talk) 15:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per Physchim--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: suggested blurb:
Note that I've deliberately avoided the word "murder" - at this stage it's clearly a killing, but we have no way of knowing if it was murder or manslaughter - it could, for example, be a burglary gone horribly wrong, etc etc. That's possibly open for debate: the BBC do use the term "murder" in their article's title, but their article is quoting a colleague of Dr. Farooq's. Holding off posting in case folk would prefer a different blurb... TFOWR 15:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support blurb, and support posting per Physchim. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:41, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
could include a link to his party Muttahida Qaumi Movement in the blurb above.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
You'd need to propose where ;-) I tried to wedge it in, but couldn't come up with a good way to do it. TFOWR 15:45, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
The killing of exiled Pakistani politician Imran Farooq of Muttahida Qaumi Movement in London provokes violence in his home town of Karachi.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:56, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I'd considered that, but it's a bit wordy and breaks the flow between "name" and "location". It's not clear from the article (I gather he founded the MQM's fore-runner, APMSO), but could we say "...exiled Muttahida Qaumi Movement founder Imran Farooq..."? Maybe keeping "Pakistani" between "exiled" and "MQM"? TFOWR 16:04, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

September 16

Bomb attack in Turkey

At least 12 people were killed in an explosion, triggered by a remote-controlled device, on a minibus in the Turkish village of Gecitli in southeastern Hakkari province. [37][38] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Article : 2010 Hakkari bomb blast - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:33, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Article needs further expansion, and references especially need some attention. SpencerT♦C 20:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Support if improved. --candlewicke 14:18, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Benedict in Britain

The Pontiff will be arriving in Scotland soon (does anyone know when?), and the controversy around the trip has been getting headlines world wide. A possible target article is List_of_journeys_of_Pope_Benedict_XVI#United_Kingdom_.28September_16_to_September_19.2C_2010.29, but it's a little messy now, and would probably be better as a stand alone. (CNN) (Time Magazine) (WaPo) (AuBC) (CTV) (there's a ton more, I think you get the point) ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:53, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Weak support. I don't think a papal visit is ITN-worthy. But here it is the first State visit to a country to which, because of its political and religious history, a papal visit there is far more significant than it would be to just about all other countries. My support is weakened by the fact that it is not a "first" - Benedict's predecessor visited in 1982. But it is the first State visit of a Pope to the UK - the former visit was merely "pastoral".--Mkativerata (talk) 04:00, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the visit is what's notable, it's the controversy. He visited the U.S. a couple years ago, and there was little controversy compared to this trip. ~DC We Can Work It Out 04:14, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support it is his first state visit to the country with the second-largest amount of visitors to the English Wikipedia. His visit has already caused a lot of controversy and should be a headline around the world. --PlasmaTwa2 06:08, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support provided it focuses on the significance of this visit to the UK, and points out that there is controversy surrounding it. Not just a blanket "Pope visits UK" headline. --Dorsal Axe 06:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose it's been nearly 200 years since the Catholic Relief Act 1829, a papal visit to Great Britain isn't really that big a deal. The Pope visits lots of places, the UK receives two or three state visits a year. The world will be substantially the same on Monday when HH is back in Rome as it was yesterday before he arrived in the UK. Physchim62 (talk) 13:17, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support significant given the history of Church of England ( and given the soon to be red timer)--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:14, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: *cough* Update? Blurb? Timer red! The article could do with being a standalone article, and at present talks about the "future" visit to the UK. My telly-box suggests that that ain't true... TFOWR 19:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support There is now a reasonably detaied article on this at Pope Benedict XVI visit to the United Kingdom. Newsworthy because of a) it being the first ever state visit to Britain by a pope b) the criticism it has generated c) the controversy caused by his atheism = Nazism remarks. SP-KP (talk) 21:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per SP-KP. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, with a blurb like "Amidst controversy, Pope Benedict XVI makes the first state visit by a pope to the United Kingdom." or something similar. I don't really like my blurb compared to what I'm guessing others could come up with, but I'm finding it really tricky to word attm. Ks0stm (TCG) 23:29, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, agreeing with arguments above. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:53, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Any admins out there want to post? ~DC We Can Work It Out 04:33, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Andrew Flintoff Retires from Cricket

England talisman, IPL most expensive player and Ashes winner in 2005 and 2009, Andrew Flintoff MBE has retired from all forms of cricket because of chronic knee problems. [39] Torqueing (talk) 12:25, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

everyone eventually retires. i might support if it was Sachin Tendulkar but we cant put every good player's retirement on ITN. -- Ashish-g55 13:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Lara, Tendulkar and Flintoff would be the only 3 notables in recent times to put on ITN. Almost single-handedly winning the Ashes in 2005 was no mean feat. He is also notable for the fact that he is known by some even outside of cricket
  • Oppose not important at all. If this makes it I'm leaving wikipedia. ~DC We Can Work It Out 14:40, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Sure, he's one of the two or three most famous cricketers of the last decade, but this is of no interest to anyone who doesn't follow cricket (who will know about it already, since it's been coming for a while). Modest Genius talk 15:12, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

September 15

Ogaden rebels

Is there an article anywhere about the Ogaden National Liberation Front battle with Ethiopian forces (BBC)? SpencerT♦C 23:28, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of, but Ogaden National Liberation Front has details on previous attacks, and could be updated with this latest battle? However... how significant is this? It's an area on which I know nothing... TFOWR 10:39, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
This story is covered in back-and-forth allegations, and the truth is far from being confirmed. Allegedly, up to 300 ONLF fighters were surrounded in Zeila by the Somaliland army. The official report from the Somaliland and Ethiopian governments is that over 100 of the rebels were killed. The rebels had, (again) allegedly, been training under the Eritrean army. The ONLF leaders have denied that any engagement took place, or that the contingent was even there to begin with. Since there aren't any independent reports available, it's not really obvious what actually occured. Nightw 13:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

September 14

Reggie Bush

  • He's forfeited his Heisman Trophy from 2005 after being found ineligible for rules violation. Now I know sports awards don't get posted, but this is the first time a Heisman winner has lost his award (Even OJ Simpson got to keep his). And if you're wondering if it's "international enough" it's getting some press in Canada [40] [41] ~DC We Can Work It Out 22:22, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. I suppose this is going to be real hard to explain to people who aren't from the U.S., but the Heisman Trophy is like no other individual award in sports -- it's much "bigger" in terms of cultural importance than any professional MVP award. Almost all U.S. sports fans could tell you the last Heisman trophy winner (Mark Ingram) and the only player to win it twice (Archie Griffin), and most knowledgeable football fans would be able to tell you if a given player won the Heisman when he was in college. Most would only be able to guess who won last year's NFL MVP. The Heisman Trophy has never been forfeited or taken away before, so this is a big deal. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
And off the top of my head, no athlete in the major North American sports has given up an MVP or other major award. This includes known dopers Brian Cushing (2009 Defensive NFL Rookie of the Year), Alex Rodriguez and Jose Canseco (MLB MVPs). ~DC We Can Work It Out 22:48, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I think we put too much sport on ITN as it is. Personally, I think it should be restricted to major multi-national tournaments. I can bear major national tournaments, but awards for individual players is a step too far in my opinion. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I understand the important of the Heisman and the repercussions, but I stand by my opinion that only sporting records (major) and championships should be posted. With the occasional extremely wide implicating steroids scandal. SpencerT♦C 00:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
And a quote from CBS: "Reggie Bush returned his Heisman Trophy, and the nation rose as one and defiantly yawned. Oh yes it did, and don't argue. Bush returning the trophy was the final cynical act in a cynical tableau surrounding a cynical game." [42]. SpencerT♦C 01:00, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose it's below first-class competition. This is a farce YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:22, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, American here and it just isn't that important. And I don't buy the OJ reasoning anyway; he did nothing to make his college play ineligible for the trophy. And if it were truly a tremendous issue for the trophy, don't you think the article on the trophy would mention it? --Golbez (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. He simply made a gesture. He didn't lose the award. The Heisman Trust still recognizes him as the winner. Let's also point out that we don't mention the winners of the Heisman on ITN. --Smashvilletalk 14:53, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Note: The Heisman Trust has ruled the 2005 trophy has been vacated and will go to no one. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:36, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Bomb threat at Tour Eiffel

Police forces evacuated the Eiffel Tower and the park surrounding the Paris landmark Tuesday after a bomb alert. [43][44]. Seems to be a reaction of today's ban of veils. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 20:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

WHAT A RACIST COMMENT? WHO CLAIMED IT? THE FLNC FLB??????????????????(Lihaas (talk) 10:29, 16 September 2010 (UTC));
Yeah, you're right, it's completely out of line to suggest anyone would ever commit a violent act in response to such a thing. --Golbez (talk) 15:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
The Huffington Post only mentioned the veil ban (mentioning that it wasn't clear if it was related). The BBC mentioned "increased security ... in part because of threats from al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb". I'm not seeing anything suggesting Corsican or Breton groups. TFOWR 10:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Support but only if it blows up oppose otherwise BB7 (talk) 21:57, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose it was just a false alarm. I know we posted the 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt but that was an actual attempt. ~DC We Can Work It Out 22:40, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Bomb threats at iconic public buildings are not especially uncommon. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:00, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, no article, not remotely deserving of one. --Golbez (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

France bans on islamic Veils

France passes ban on Burqa-style Islamic veils imposing fines on any one caught wearing them in public. [45] BB7 (talk) 17:52, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

* Wait till sarkozy signs thisSupport. sarkozys support is a given. . highly symbolic legislation.(CBC)--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Support but only once it is law - it seems there are still one or two constitutional hurdles. Also the article title is inaccurate but I've made my views known about that on the article's talk page. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm definitely in favor of having an ITN item on this, but I don't know enough about the French legislative process to know when the best time is to put it up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:45, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I am not an expert on this but I think the constitutional judges have 10 days to block it as unconstitutional otherwise it goes to sarkozy who is expected to sign it--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:11, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I think now is the time to put it up, now that it has finished the political process. I know we often wait for U.S. laws to be signed by the President, but the U.S. is a very different constitutional and political system. If it does get shot down by the constitutional court, that in itself would almost seem newsworthy. The law will not be enforced during the first six months after its promulgation in any case. Physchim62 (talk) 03:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
To be fair, It was passed 9 hours ago so reponses are kinda slim right now. We are getting them up as fast as we can find them. Being as this happened in the evening there I dont expect too many response for another until as the main responses from the Middle east and most of europe till 8-1200 UTC time. BB7 (talk) 01:40, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm considering this, because the timer is red (30 hours). Anyone with more knowledge than me of French constitutional law want to pipe up? (I have no knowledge of French constitutional law, by the way...) TFOWR 14:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Try with French senate passes a law banning the veils. Possibly including a link to the controversy article as well. --Tone 15:13, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not entirely happy with this blurb, but throwing it out for suggestions/improvements:
Tweaks welcome... TFOWR 15:26, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
It's quite hard to get the obvious links in there without excessive piping or weird wording. Here's my attempt:
Here's my go:
To explain: saying "parliament" rather than "Senate" emphasizes that it has now been passed by both houses (the Chamber of Deputies passed the law last July); specifying "niqab" and "burqa" links to our more-than-respectable articles on the subjects and avoids the over-long bold link. In fact, the law bans any covering of the face in public, apart from a large number of non-religious exceptions (such as Santa Claus outfits!), but I don't think we are being misleading when we say it bans the niqab and the burqa. Physchim62 (talk) 16:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Blair Liberty Medal

  • Former British PM Tony Blair was awarded the Liberty Medal for his role in the North Ireland peace process. (BBC) (AFP) (CNN) ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
  • support notable by defaultBB7 (talk) 03:42, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
  • oppose no such thing as notable by default. Also enough useless glory in the news this week.·Maunus·ƛ· 18:04, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support while I'm not a big fan of the guy this is a big deal - the Northern Ireland peace process was important. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:20, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I'm from the U.S. and I've never heard of this American award or the National Constitutional Center. It's not like this is the Nobel Prize. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:47, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. It's just politics. It wasn't even awarded by the POTUS, but the one before last. As a general rule, I'd only support a nation's highest award—things like the MoH and the VC or their civilian equivalents. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

September 13

2010 US Open (tennis)

Moved from September 12 section due to the delay. I hope this is okay; admins feel free to revert if not. Nightw 02:34, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Kim Clijsters wins her second consecutive women's singles title; men's final to be contested at 2030 UTC today. Courcelles 05:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support when mens final is in. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. This seems to be one of the tennis events that is usually added and included on ITN/R. --candlewicke 13:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per above--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support now, but don't mention men's final until it's complete. Suggestion for now:
PrimeHunter (talk) 15:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
What article would we bold-link to? The tournament articles have no prose. Clijster's article is all unsourced in the relevant part (the 2010 section). --Mkativerata (talk) 19:54, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support when the men's results are in. Nightw 05:16, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Rafael Nadal of Spain wins the Men's Singles at the 2010 US Open defeating Novak Djokovic of Serbia 6-4 5-7 6-4 6-2, and becoming the seventh man in history to win all four Grand Slam titles.
It'd be great if we could get a picture too. Gillard is still up?! Nightw 02:34, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Scores aren't added to sports events (not sure why). ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:04, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Also, File:Nadal Australian Open 2009 4.jpg would be good to use. ~DC We Can Work It Out 03:05, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Posted. Time to change the image. We also have File:Rafael Nadal at the 2010 US Open 01.jpg, a more recent one. --Tone 07:54, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Changed to Clijsters. Nadal has already been up twice this year; for Wimbledon and the French Open. Courcelles 12:08, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
please mention nadal's career grand slam. he is only the 7th person ever to do so and is a bigger deal than winning just the US open. -- Ashish-g55 13:07, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Added. Without mentioning that he is the 7th person, the blurb is already very long. --Tone 20:29, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Conviasa Flight 2350

- Plane crash in Ciudad Guayana, Venezuela with 47 aboard. At least 13 fatalities- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 17:35, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose seems relatively minor. ~DC We Can Work It Out 00:42, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose, there have been a ridiculous number of plane crashes this year, 13 dead doesn't particularly stand out. C628 (talk) 00:58, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Abandoned newborn found in plane bin

Abandoned newborn babyfound in Gulf Air flight trash can upon arrival at Manila airport. Huge press coverage. [46] [worldnews/asia/philippines/8000016/Newborn-baby-found-dumped-in-aircraft-lavatory-bin.html] [47]. --Saki talk 17:57, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose: If the Department of Social Welfare and Development (Philippines) earns a dollar for every abandoned baby/child/adult they get, they could've paid off the country's debt for a year. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Are you trying to be funny? Nightw 18:07, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
The DSWD is the government agency that handles abandoned babies (until they can be adopted), street children and lost people in general. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per HTD - no suitable for ITN.- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 18:11, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Oppose per HTD's reasoning. An isolated anecdote that just happened to get publicity. This particular baby cannot possibly be of international significance.--WaltCip (talk) 18:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

September 12

Death of Claude Chabrol

Notable french film director dies at age 80. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:08, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

  • euronews - "One of France’s most famous and best loved film makers ... Considered a master of the mystery genre by some".
  • The Guardian - "The world of French cinema is in mourning for one of its greatest and most prolific directors".
  • The Daily Telegraph - "one of that group of critics-turned-film-makers who revolutionised French cinema in the late Fifties and came to be known as the 'new wave'".
  • Press TV - "Acclaimed French filmmaker and one of the founders of the Nouvelle Vague".
  • BBC News - ""With the death of Claude Chabrol, French cinema has lost one of its maestros", French Prime Minister Francois Fillon. A "great author and great film-maker", French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
  • Deutsche Welle - "French President Nicolas Sarkozy compared Chabrol to 19th century novelist Honoré de Balzac and Renaissance writer François Rabelais".
  • The New York Times - "went on to make a series of stylish, suspense-filled films ... that were often compared to those of Alfred Hitchcock".
  • CBC News - "A prolific director, Chabrol made more than 70 films and TV productions during his more than half-century-long career".
  • USA Today - "Without Claude Chabrol there would have been no New Wave movement in film".
  • Radio New Zealand - "One of France's best-known film directors".
  • France24 - "a master director famed for his dark portrayals of French provincial bourgeois life".
Support because his death is noticed around Europe, and as far apart as the United States, Canada, Iran and New Zealand, and because the coverage shows he was an important man who meets 2. The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such. --candlewicke 19:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article says almost nothing about his death. Would change my mind if it had some more content Diego Grez (talk) 20:05, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Obviously a notable person but I don't see the significance of his death at 80 years of age. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Can we make a rule banning obituaries from being used as evidence of importance? They're always written from a positive point-of-view since they follow the practice of De mortuis nil nisi bonum. (no comment on the nominated item, I'm just tired of obits being used) ~DC We Can Work It Out 20:13, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • oppose having looked over his filmography I can't find any films that leap out to me as notable. Substantial body of work yes but nothing that indicates inherrint notability. I see no mention of Best or Director or simliar honors. Weaponbb7 (talk) 21:18, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - clearly and unequivocably notable, that other editors don't know his films means nothing. He wasn't a Hollywood block buster director, but one of modern cinema's first movers.·Maunus·ƛ· 12:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Maunus. The fact that he wasn't a blockbuster director is indication that his death has no international significance. This isn't a notability test. --Smashvilletalk 19:05, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Turkish constitutional referendum, 2010

'The people of Turkey have begun voting in a referendum on changing the constitution, which was drafted under military rule in the early 1980s.' (BBC)  Cargoking  talk  08:45, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Support clearly notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Voting on a change of constitution is important enough. --candlewicke 14:01, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support clearly notable.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support it's important. But there are currently six maintenance templates in the article, so it needs work. ~DC We Can Work It Out 15:40, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. Significant referendum, more populated country than Kenya, but the article needs to have the actual results. ~AH1(TCU) 17:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support highly notable, and the results became 'definite'. we should put it on the news. i suggest that title: constitutional amendments of Turkey approved through referendum,with %58 yes voters -- (talk) 17:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
It would definitely be good to post this, but the article is a complete mess.--Mkativerata (talk) 19:52, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
To call the article a mess is an understement. It's tagged for all sorts of cleanup, sourcing and OR issues. Anyone wanting to put the work into it might find it easier to start again from scratch. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support A constitutional referendum in any country is notable. Doc Quintana (talk) 20:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • support per above. --Diego Grez (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Someone has to be a grown-up here. The event is certainly notable enough, but to put an article in this state on the main page would be detrimental to the project. Lampman (talk) 20:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • I can't believe I have to reiterate this: "Candidates for ITN are evaluated on two main grounds: the quality of the updated content and the significance of the developments described in the updated content." So far most of the votes here have been brainless repetitions of some "notable event is notable" mantra. Lampman (talk) 21:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • In these cases I interpret the supports as "in principle" supports. No sane admin is going to post this item with the article in this state, regardless of how many supports there are. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
I had a quick go, but I didn't manage to get very far :( - I don't know what sources will go into enough detail. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:13, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • I hope you're right Mkativerata. I also tried adding some RS's to the article, but it's not an easy job. Lampman (talk) 21:15, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support but wait Wait until it passes or Fails either way it will be more interesting than the vote itself. Weaponbb7 (talk) 21:23, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment This referendum has certain elements which will decide whether Turkey, arguably the most secular of all Muslim majority countries stays secular or goes down a more Islamist path. As such its importance is hard to understate. The article does need to be improved I agree.--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:52, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
So far, no-one has argued against the notability of the event. If every person leaving a comment here had added a reliable source to the article, we would have been close to ITN level. Lampman (talk) 22:10, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support as the article stands. It isn't the best article on Wikipedia, but FAC is ←that-a-way. It is informative about a topic which will probably interest many of our readers. Physchim62 (talk) 22:15, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Still oppose. I and others have been working hard to add RS's to the article, but a quick read will convince you that it's still horribly pro-Erdoğan POV. Lampman (talk) 22:23, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

comment the Referendum passes Weaponbb7 (talk) 22:39, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Has anybody thought of updating or writing another article? There's no question this has consensus, but we need a reasonable article. What such an article would be,a side from the obvious, I don't know, but ITN standards aren't picky about where we have an update, as long as there is one that's supported by a reasonable article. The article is now a hell of a lot better than when I last looked, but it's still covered in {{fact}} tags for some pretty crucial points. If they were addressed, I would consider posting it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
  • I think its close enough in my book to go on there the main page. Hopefully it will spark someones interest BB7 (talk) 03:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, obviously notable. The article looks pretty decent. Nightw 05:24, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. I would be very surprised if this nomination lost out to something like the Medal of Honor. Colipon+(Talk) 19:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

So, what is the situation with this nomination? The article is updated and expanded, there are just two sections with tags. Is anyone planning to work on it or should we consider posting it as it is? --Tone 14:25, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

IMO it is postable. once it is on the main page it should attract more editors who will improve it further ( hopefully). isnt that one of the reasons we have ITN ?--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
It is. So, "Voters in Turkey approve constitutional changes on a referendum."? --Tone 17:06, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. But in a referendum, right? Nightw 17:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Right. Posting. --Tone 20:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Tri Nations Series

  • The All Blacks win the 2010 Tri Nations Series undefeated, against the Wallabies, 23–22 at the ANZ Stadium, Sydney. Matty (talk) 05:37, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
    • I previously nominated this when the tournament was "statistically won" by the All Blacks (they had enough points with one game to go), but the article wasn't deemed to be updated enough at the time. The final game has been played today though and the article has been updated and sourced, and this is a reoccurring event that should be put up per WP:ITNSPORTS. Thanks, Matty (talk) 05:37, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
How "In the news" can it be then? Plus, we're likely going to have two other sports stories, both of which are more "international" ~DC Let's Vent 06:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The series finished last night, that's why it's "in the news". As for the international aspect, I guess that's your opinion. You'll find rugby union is more popular than tennis and basketball in a lot of the world outside of the United States. The Tri Nations series is in WP:ITNSPORTS anyway. Matty (talk) 06:12, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
It was clinched a month ago. ~DC We Can Work It Out 06:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
How dare you say basketball is more popular? Don't you know that Lithuania national rugby union team, Puerto Rico national rugby union team and Angola national rugby union team are more followed than their basketball counterparts?</sarcasm> –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 06:24, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Note that the Tri Nations is listed at WP:ITNR. Disclaimer: I am hugely, hugely partisan when it comes to the All Blacks... TFOWR 13:55, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak Oppose if the other sports events in the "queue" are posted as both of them have more of an audience I think. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:58, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The other sports are my concern, as well. Is there any guidance on the number of sports items in ITN? I'm thinking we need a range of different items, not three sports one after each other, but hey! it's Sunday, and statistical anomalies happen, and sport makes a pleasant change from "X killed in a bombing in Y", etc... TFOWR 14:08, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Argh... (edit conflict) X2. Support. ITN/R. Not very partisan at all. Nice to have a major sports event from the Southern Hemisphere. Study: "The 2010 Tri Nations rugby tournament will boost the sport and leisure economy of the southern hemisphere by some $175 million". And "New Zealand secured a historic Tri-Nations clean sweep with victory over Australia in the final Test in Sydney". I don't know what is historic about it or when exactly it ended or was won or whatever it is but if it is recent enough I can think of no other reason to oppose. --candlewicke 14:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno if this international enough -- the Italian version of the article has had only 192 views; don't get me started on Spanish article views. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The numbers increase if you select "August" instead of "July" ;-) 477 for and 791 for TFOWR 14:43, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
For the record I used September 2010 figures, since that's the last stage of the tourney and should have the most interest. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Apologies, you're quite right. "September" isn't an option in the drop-down list, but that's no excuse for me not realising that "9" does not equal "7". TFOWR 15:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The numbers will go up if they get the stats for September 10-12. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Oh, by all means, consult the Spanish and Italian versions to get a read on the popularity of this story amongst our readership. Nightw 16:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, as it is in ITN/R, and is the major sporting story from the Southern hemisphere. Nightw 05:29, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Support. I really try hard to avoid !voting at ITNC but Night_w is absolutely correct: Rugby Union is the national sport of South Africa and New Zealand, and a huge sport in Australia, too. Aside from the Tri-Nations being the premier sporting event in the Southern Hemisphere, rugby union is big in Western Europe (see Six Nations Championship) and the Tri-Nations has obvious interest as a result. Even the United States gets in on the act, with 50,000 "regular" players plus 30,000 high-school players, and 570 clubs. This item has international appeal, and would help counteract the usual claims of WP:BIAS. TFOWR 13:34, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Heh. I remember the argument even New Yorkers were into Gaelic games because New York GAA exists. I figured if this is big in the "Southern Hemisphere" this should be big in South America, and considering Spanish is a principal language there I figured this should have huge view numbers, but even the Italian version has higher stats. Now this argument is moot if someone brings up "the U.S. controls South America argument", so there. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:43, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Ready to post. Just a question, would it be better to mention which countries participated with names? All Blacks is obvious for a person familiar with rugby but confusing for others. --Tone 13:39, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I think just use "New Zealand", as is the norm when referencing other national teams. Avoids confusion. Nightw 13:48, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I'd say so. Note that both the AB's and the Wallabies's articles follow the "Xian national rugby union team" convention, so I'd suggest the following modification of Matty's blurb:
I've changed "against" to "after beating" as I felt that "against" made it sound like the Tri-Nations was a two-country affair. Hopefully my revised version makes clear that NZ/Australia was simply the final game. TFOWR 13:49, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Posting. And omitting the result. We never post results. --Tone 13:54, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 FIBA World Championship Final

I'm willing to bet that if USA wins, this will find a tougher time for inclusion than say, the hurling final which all of the people of New York City followed. lol (This wasn't suggested). –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 01:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
So its USA vs. Turkey. We should all pray that Kevin Durant would have an off-game so that this has a higher chance of being added. It's on WP:ITNR anyway so... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 05:24, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Listed at WP:ITNR. TFOWR 13:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
See also: 2006 discussion. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:01, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support regardless of outcome. But it will be an interesting discussion if the US wins. I expect such arguments as "its not updated enough" (after a sufficient update, see Super Bowl XLIV discussion). Or how about "LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, and Larry Bird didn't play so who cares?" And of course, "we have the US Open, an American Medal of Honor winner and an American film" ~DC We Can Work It Out 15:37, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't know -- this isn't being followed all that closely in the U.S. (the likely winner), where it's receiving far less attention than the opening of the football season, the U.S. tennis open and the baseball playoff races. The NBA and NCAA championships are considered far bigger deals to most basketball fans. I'd rather leave this out and put in the NCAA finals in April. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 16:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
If anything, this has surprisingly a good enough following elsewhere: 154588 views in the German version (Dirk isn't even playing) and 74333 views in the French version (Parker isn't even playing). And of course with the current NBA scoring leader playing I don't think a thinking basketball fan will say the NCAA is a bigger deal. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
@Mwalcoff, why does it have to be an either/or thing with the NCAA? And I guarantee an American win would give it much more coverage. ~DC We Can Work It Out 16:27, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
To think that U.S. journalists described the atmosphere as "Cameron Indoor Stadium x5" and "New Years in Times Square"... and Coach K is coaching so... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
@DC: I think an American loss will give this 10x coverage vs. an American win. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:38, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
No NCAA < WC. Mwalcoff is full of nonsense YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:57, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Is that another personal attack or is that the best way you can characterize my comment? I don't know about where you live, but in the U.S., March Madness is one of the biggest sports events of the year, while I'm guessing most American sports fans haven't even heard of FIBA. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:04, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Why should it be always for the American fans? Probably more Europeans watched this than the Six Nations Championship, for example. For Europeans, this seems to be the more popular tournament, while for Americans, it's the Olympics (and that wasn't added. lol). –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose It's not particuarly important in the sport of Basketball in comparison to the World Cup. Doc Quintana (talk) 20:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Are you serious? —bender235 (talk) 20:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Easily notable. --bender235 (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
USA won 81 to 64. ~DC We Can Work It Out 20:27, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Posting. Could somebody please create the talk page with relevant project banners while I add it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose not important - enough sport already.·Maunus·ƛ· 12:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
    • The world championships of one of the most popular sports in the world isn't important? -CWY2190(talkcontributions) 16:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

September 11

Venice Film Festival

Somewhere, directed by Sofia Coppola, wins the Golden Lion at the 67th Venice International Film Festival. Apparently it is ITN/R. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Support. It is ITN/R. I was just nominating this and you gave me an edit conflict. :) - JuneGloom07 Talk? 21:10, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note The article lacks prose. Once someone adds a prose update, I'll post. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

In cases like these there's really not much more that can be said other than who won and a couple of quotes. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
We could also bold the film itself. ~DC Let's Vent 01:14, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support as it is ITN/R after all and is something both nice and underrepresented too. --candlewicke 01:37, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support As standard practice for winners of the "big three" film festivals (Cannes, Berlin and Venice). Lugnuts (talk) 07:53, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:52, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Now it meets the minimum requirements for update. Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:34, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Sept 11/Eid/Koran controversy

On top of the news today are the related events for the 9/11 attacks. The ninth anniversary, coincidentally falling at the end of Ramadan in the celebration of Eid and also the Koran controversy that has not got to the top or near the top of news outlets in a heck of a lot of countries and also elicited responses from various sources both government and non-government, liberal and conservative. Think its a good time to add them all now. I've updated September_11_attacks#Anniversary_reactions. (Lihaas (talk) 12:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC));

Weak Support, meh this could well be worth posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 01:38, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Of course it's a significant anniversary, but ITN is not the place for anniversaries, we have OTD for that (or featured picture this year). Physchim62 (talk) 02:12, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
See below at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#International_Burn_a_Koran_Day_reactions where this item (or a similar one?) was nominated. SpencerT♦C 03:08, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The anniversary happens every year, obviously. And the "book burning atrocity" was cancelled. Nightw 04:32, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Salvatore Giunta

Support; first to survive his heroic deed in far too long. (For the record, I corrected a spelling mistake in your post, Tom, in case this goes up and the posting admin just cuts and pastes your blurb.) Courcelles 02:54, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Support It is good [although a bit US-centric] but still good :) --Diego Grez (talk) 02:59, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Support surprising it's been so long. ~DC Let's Vent 03:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose: These are awarded quite frequently. The only possibly noteworthy aspect here is that the recipient is currently alive. The last medal was awarded posthumously to a Jared C. Monti in September 2009. The next will be awarded posthumously to a Robert James Miller on 6 October this year. Nightw 07:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
According to Medal of Honor (a featured article) only 8 posthumous awards have been given out for actions occurring after the end of the Vietnam war. Plus, he's the first living recipient since then. ~DC Let's Vent 07:14, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, 4 in the Iraq War, and 4 in the War in Afghanistan; what's your point? Even with the "living" qualifier in mind, in 2009, Mark Donaldson was the first Australian (living or otherwise) to receive the Victoria Cross in 40 years. In 2007, Willie Apiata was the first New Zealand (living or otherwise) to receive the Victoria Cros since the Second World War, a period of over 60 years. There have been none since them. Were either of these deemed ITN worthy? No. Nightw 07:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
But maybe they should have been posted, its not reasonable to judge stuff from being posted entirely on past actions. In this case the former didn't seem to get enough international coverage, and the latter wasn't nominated. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:34, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Actually two were for the Battle of Mogadishu (1993), four for Iraq, and two for Afghanistan. ~DC Let's Vent 07:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
There's nothing on the BBC website about this 1. Nothing on the Sydney Morning Herald 2. Nothing on the Toronto Star 3. Nothing on the New Zealand Herald 4. Nothing on the Times of India 5. Nothing on the Times of South Africa 6. Seems like extremely domestic news to me. The simple fact that this guy is alive does not make him any more noteworthy than the other recent recipients. Will Robert Miller's award be listed in October? Not likely. We can't post an award every time it happens. Nightw 07:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
But have published it, as have the Liberty times from Taiwan (in Chinese, but its obvious) and the Telegraph from the UK and NRK from Norway and of course there is the Guardian from the UK at the top. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:07, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Support its only been awarded 9 times since Vietnam, 8 of which have been posthumous. The Victoria Cross has only been awarded 13 times in the UK and Australia since WW2. I can't find a military equivalent but for example in India the civilian Bharat Ratna has only been awarded 41 times since 1947. We could post all of these kind of things for all the English speaking countries - given an appropriate article update. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:23, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Just one niggling issue (perhaps just an issue with the suggested blurb at the top) - he hasn't been awarded it yet, it has only been announced. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:06, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Posted since there is a firm consensus in support. Also it will be good to finally get Gillard's picture off the page (her third appearance in three months!) and Christchurch is still hanging around after more than a week. The article is well enough updated. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:11, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose he hasn't been awarded it yet. That seems more notable than the announcement. --PlasmaTwa2 17:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose (I know its too late) This isn't news outside of one particular country and it makes wikipedia look parochial. Most of the world couldn't care less. This isn't the American wikipedia. ·Maunus·ƛ· 21:44, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Support (afterward). Notable due to rarity, similar awards from other nations also posted. SpencerT♦C 01:38, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Ah, no, they weren't. See discussion above. Nightw 05:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
The first non-posthumous presentation of the Victoria Cross in decades was. See discussion below. —David Levy 02:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Unimportant outside of the U.S.A. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 01:42, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't really care too much about this entry but want to point out that not all ITN entries have to be of interest to everyone -- many of our readers are American, and they might be interested in this. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:55, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. To be honest, User NightW sums up the argument nicely above. I definitely do not dismiss any American story as evidence of systemic bias, as I supported the posting of Ted Kennedy's death. But once in a while you run into a story on the Wikipedia main page that is so blatantly non-notable compared to other events that you have to come in and make a comment opposing it even though it's been posted. It just happens to be that most of these stories are American. Please, take it off. Colipon+(Talk) 18:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Comments/question: I understand the argument that we should wait until the medal is presented, but some are arguing that this is a domestic matter of no interest to most of the world (and one for which we've provided special treatment to the United States).
But when a British soldier became the first living Victoria Cross recipient in 36 years, an item was included without controversy. (I checked the history of every relevant talk page to make sure.) What is the material difference between that and the first living Medal of Honor recipient in 39 years? —David Levy 02:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't see why it's considered "more notable" if the recipient is alive. And for the record, that British soldier was also the first recipient of the VC, alive or otherwise, in over 20 years. Whereas, as I stated above, the Medal of Honor was awarded to another posthumously just over a year ago, and will be awarded to yet another posthumously next month. But the fact that they're deceased somehow makes them "less notable"? Nightw 02:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, let me be clear in stating that this isn't a matter of human worth or the value of these individuals' contributions. The deceased soldiers made the ultimate sacrifice.
But that's precisely why their [posthumous] receipt of the Medal of Honor, while equally indicative of valor, is more common. A non-posthumous presentation of the medal has not occurred in nearly four decades, so it evokes greater interest among readers. —David Levy 03:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I get that. But insofaras world news goes, it's not really a big deal. As you'll see from the above discussion, hardly any of the major media sources in English speaking countries covered the story at all. Nightw 03:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
...apart from those in the United States, whose residents (composing a large percentage of the site's readers) are to be punished for inhabiting a single nation instead of a union of smaller nations. —David Levy 03:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I assume you meant aren't to be punished. ~DC We Can Work It Out 05:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I mean that they are under the logic being applied (with which I disagree). —David Levy 08:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I think you've mostly missed the point of what's been said. I won't continue debating on that merit. Nightw 09:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
If I've misunderstood something, please set me straight. —David Levy 11:19, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Note: Item has been removed due to lack of consensus. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 11:28, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

September 10

September 9

2010 San Bruno fire

A huge explosion is thought to be caused by a ruptured gas pipe in San Bruno, California. 4 deaths and 38 houses destroyed. Reported by SF Chronicle CNN BBCChris!c/t 19:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

  • weak support its hard to measure the impact, I have no TV (by principal) and always regret it when something like this happens. What is CNN/Fox/Msnbc showing right now? Are they still broadcasting it?Weaponbb7 (talk) 19:52, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
  • support per DC's comment Weaponbb7 (talk) 19:59, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Support still getting major coverage. ~DC Let's Vent 19:54, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Weak support The article is still too short imo. --Diego Grez (talk) 19:57, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
weak support per DC--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:19, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
weak oppose this is not much different that 2008 Toronto propane explosion. but if it leads to something more major then maybe... we almost did not post new zealand earthquake. comparatively 38 damaged houses is not a lot. -- Ashish-g55 21:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, seems awfully local, not a particularly high death toll. Sort of comparable to the occasional shootings that happen in the US in terms of ITN-worthiness, and those are usually rejected. C628 (talk) 22:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, I agree with C628 that this is not ITN-worthy. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:17, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Support - important event - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:39, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as domestic news. Not ITN worthy. Nightw 14:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Prison break in Nigeria

Accodring to Independent a heavily armed gunmen attacked a prison and freed up to 800 inmates, including 150 suspected members of a militant Islamic sect. Another sources Xinhua Dailymail - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 15:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

What's the article? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:59, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
It's become accepted practice, it seems, to nominate things for ITN before there's an article. I guess to announce that an article needs to be made? --Golbez (talk) 17:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
See 2010 Nigeria prison break then. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
In that case, oppose, no substantial article update. :) --Golbez (talk) 17:24, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
In that case support assuming the article is appropriately updated :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment have I made enough of an update now, or is more information required? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:54, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Vladikavkaz bombing

15 killed, 70 wounded in Russia after a suicide bombing in a market - [48]- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 12:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

  • weak oppose we do way too many bombings, this one is rather small as they go Weaponbb7 (talk) 13:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support unusual number of casualties for the location. article is here 2010 Vladikavkaz bombing--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:00, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Large number of injured (greater than each of the two recent Moscow subway bombings) in a volatile region. ~AH1(TCU) 17:28, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article is very thin. We're here to highlight articles and not to act as a news service. RxS (talk) 17:34, 12 September 2010 (UTC)


A published report shows Vitamin B may hold off Alzheimer's disease-and this was published in the Public Library of Science One, which is peer-reviewed. (BBC) ~DC Let's Vent 04:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose, My grandfather died due his impaired judgement from Alzheimer's disease, so i am happy to here any progress in the area but it strikes me as "may hold off Alzheimer's disease" is not enough to worth of ITN. Weaponbb7 (talk) 12:44, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

September 8

Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani

Support this has been getting alot of press worldwide. ~DC Let's Vent 03:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, it was on the 5 o'clock news here in Australia. A good news story, esp. since that box is looking pretty red. Nightw 07:06, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
But, it still needs an update. -- tariqabjotu 12:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment I have updated it some--Wikireader41 (talk) 12:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Tariq, you're more clueful than me - is this sufficient? I'm mindful that Night_w's "pretty red" is really a euphemism for "quite blatantly bright scarlet" ;-) TFOWR 12:36, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
that and also Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani#Suspension of stoning sentence --Wikireader41 (talk) 14:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC).
OK, based on the timer now claiming "Last updated: 2 days ago" I'm going to run with this in the next hour or so unless there's a sudden influx of objections. I'm suggesting a modification to the blurb, thus:
Thoughts? Objections? TFOWR 17:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Fine with me (or we could just say "Iran suspends...") ~DC Let's Vent 17:15, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure how it's really a story; she still stands to be executed by other means. She might not be stoned to death for adultery, but she might be hanged to death for murder. --Golbez (talk) 17:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Posting. Update is reasonable and we're long overdue for an update. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:27, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Late Support, given the amount of time without an update, the amount of news coverage around this, and the unusual response of Iran to bow to international pressure. C628 (talk) 18:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

International Burn a Koran Day reactions

There is an explosive upsurge of condemnations of this event by global leaders: the Vatican, Ban Ki-moon, Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel in the last 24 hours alone. With three more days until the book burning is to take place I can only see this story moving in one direction. __meco (talk) 21:42, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Only if something massive happens in retaliation, which I doubt. This is so much of a non-issue that I'm really disappointed that world leaders have given it so much attention. If they hadn't said jack, no one would care. --Golbez (talk) 21:45, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
*sigh* Again we have an editor who opines on what should be featured based on how the world ought to react to a would-be non-event simply blocking out the fact that the world is rising up in uproar. This is becoming a trend. This is no way to administer In The News... __meco (talk) 21:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure what your statement here is; "to a would-be non-event"? Yes, it's a non-event unless an event happens. The burning of a book is not typically an event. A bombing in retaliation is an event, but people opining about a non-event is, in itself, a non-event. --Golbez (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Put another way, the story some tim ago was not the cartoons of Muhammad - it was the violent reaction to them. It is premature to consider putting this up unless there's an actual reaction to it. Burning a commonly available item is not really ITN worthy, no matter how many news sources and famous people pipe up about it. --Golbez (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I don't really see why these far right nutters burning the Koran deserve the publicity. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:56, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Eraserhead1. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:57, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose and article should be nuked as well. Since when did the actions of a bunch of bigots in Florida become an "International Burna a Koan Day"? The idea is almost as pathetic as the act itself. Physchim62 (talk) 22:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose and follow Physchim62's advice. WP:DFTT. The same applies with these lunatics.--WaltCip (talk) 22:06, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Please, I wish people would stop trying to apply WP behavior guidelines such as BEANS, DFTT, DENY, etc. to the subjects of our articles. Real world notability is real world notability. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 01:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
You're misreading the comments; I, for one, am saying this is simply not notable at the moment (and hopefully never will be). Physchim62 (talk) 02:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Just because some highly paid people of apparent importance have work schedules so light that they can take the time to speak out against such a non-event as this doesn't mean said non-event is notable. --Golbez (talk) 02:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose for now. if however any violent retaliation occurs I could be persuaded to change my mind. No matter how crazy this event is a violent reaction would be unacceptable behavior IMO.--Wikireader41 (talk) 22:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Wait for a notable response...probably a few KFCs will be burned down or something, but only if there's major retaliation. SpencerT♦C 00:02, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Nominator's rationale is convincing; opposition based on desire to deny publicity is less so. The amount of attention this is getting worldwide is undeniable. However I feel it does not belong on ITN until after it has occurred and we see how people have reacted. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 01:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Event is obviously "a story of international importance or interest" [49]. However, the blurb will look pretty boring at the moment, " leaders condemn FL church's plan to burn a Quran...", so I say Wait till the actual event, after which it will definitely be notable (even if, say, the event is cancelled). SPat talk 01:49, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Cancellation of the event would not be notable in the slightest. "Preacher says he won't burn Qu'ran on Saturday" is not really encyclopedic material. I can see scenarios where the event could become notable, but they haven't happened yet (and, as they would almost inevitably result in significant loss of human life, I hope they don't). Physchim62 (talk) 02:14, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
oppose this making on ITN would only have shock value to it. not much encyclopedic value. all these made up days like lets draw muhamad or lets burn qu'ran are quite stupid and really should not be featured on Main page unless someone like Obama personally does it himself on TV. which causes international panic or smth -- Ashish-g55 02:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, for reasons already stated by others. Nightw 07:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

What the hell? This is a huge story in the international press. The coverage is unjustified for this little man but we can not decide what is and is not a major international story, to ignore it in order to avoid controversy is censorship. This has been responded to by senior politicians, religious figures, senior military, countries are seeking to block coverage of it. It is incredible people are trying to suggest this should not be mentioned on the main page. The media has been banging on about it for the past 24 hours. BritishWatcher (talk) 09:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Responded to. Seeking to. Words. Nothing more. Get back to me when there's an actual action; violence, certainly, or maybe even some Elian-esque raid to stop the eeevil church from doing something that isn't illegal (apart from the fine for having a fire in their county). --Golbez (talk) 13:42, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Support - this is an incredibly notable international event (i agree that it shouldnt be, But it is). Of course it should be added to ITN. Although it should only be added once the silly deletion attempt of the article has failed. BritishWatcher (talk) 09:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

  • People condemn an awful lot of stupid plans, which doesn't always make those plans significant; indeed, there's no end of cases of plans so trivial they didn't even exist being publicly condemned at great length for a couple of days! I don't see much reason to give this more publicity; it's one person being a dick by making a small but puerile gesture, and hoping people jump in response. Shimgray | talk | 12:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • If you have updated yourself on the international news coverage of this issue you will also have ascertained that the whole world is indeed jumping. That is notable. Then it matters less why they are jumping. __meco (talk) 12:55, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
    • No, it means a lot of highly paid people are overpaid and underworked. You haven't even proposed a blurb; "Many people say that a group of people shouldn't damage its property"? --Golbez (talk) 13:42, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Now you are just talking garbage. So now the lack of a proposed nlurb is also an argument against this story reaching ITN? Have you no filters between what enters you mind and what comes out? __meco (talk) 13:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Well that's twice you've insulted me, to zero times me insulting you, but whatever makes you feel better about nominating this. And no, a blurb is not required to get it put up - but it helps. No, the argument against it reaching ITN is that it's a non-event, and that I choose not to publish it. --Golbez (talk) 14:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Please dont use bullets and tabs. it looks odd -- Ashish-g55 13:56, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh, look, the non-event didn't happen. Good thing we didn't advertise it. --Golbez (talk) 14:18, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

September 7

French & British strikes

I'm not sure if an article exists, but the ongoing strikes in Britain and France have been getting a fair amount of press here in America. I'm fairly certain we put the Greek strikes earlier this year on ITN. ~DC Let's Vent 20:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment there are tube strikes in London at the moment, but other than that I'm not aware of any others in the UK. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:26, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The Tube and the French are constantly on strike or in negotiations to avoid a strike. Or sometimes both. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:32, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Australian federal election, 2010

Within the next 90 minutes we will know who will form government in Australia. For a blurb either:

Just putting this up in advance so that we're ready to go and so that hopefully some editors can help do the updates. --Mkativerata (talk) 03:48, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

strong oppose The election result already went up, we cant post it everytime something happens. At any rate, in other cases we havent put up govt. formation if the election results were out.(Lihaas (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC));
The formation of the government is far more significant than the (in this case ambiguous) election result. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
And your appeal to "other cases" just isn't true.[50] --Mkativerata (talk) 05:48, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
per Holland, and it shouldnt have been for the uk either in that case Lihaas (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
So the actual outcome in terms of who wins government is less important than the academic question of who wins the most seats? --Mkativerata (talk) 10:24, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I suggested it should wait till this stage, nonetheless others thought otherwise. But i think its silly (and hypocritical) to relist it.
at the very least the bolded part should be different than the SAME article getting on again. Lihaas (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Wow "hypocritical" is a bold call. Who is the hypocrite and why? Please tell. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Just to make sure that things are still on an even keel, Lihaas is not accusing anyone of being a hypocrite, but is instead bringing attention towards what may be a hypocritical act (e.g. ad actum vs. ad hominem).--WaltCip (talk) 12:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
They are a major English speaking country and have had a hung parliament, so Support the inclusion of both in WP:ITN. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:28, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Support: Per Mkativerata and Eraserhead1. COI admission, I am an Australian! 220.101 talk\Contribs 06:55, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Support, per Mkativerata and Eraserhead1. This is the final outcome of the election. Nightw 08:22, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Support There is precedent. We did the exact same for the UK election. The only difference here, is that it's taken longer to get a final result. -- (talk) 13:09, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Support, per Mkativerata and Eraserhead1.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support — I only came here because I was surprised that it wasn't up already. There is a precedent with the UK election and, to be honest, if this were anything to do with US politics there is no doubt that this would be already up. Jenks24 (talk) 15:04, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Probably because U.S. items are updated speedily, unlike this one. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:44, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
  • The update isn't great, but it is there. Posting Courcelles 15:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
    • If the update we're talking about is the one located at the lead, that's one pretty crappy uncited update. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:56, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
      • I was thinking of Gillard's article, actually, not the election's. Courcelles 15:58, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
        • Ah, the cop-out way, I see. I guess there's nothing wrong with that... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:04, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
          • Actually the "update" has been on the page (not the leded) pretty much from the moment it happened. It's just in a sensible place and not overdone with recentism. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:47, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

September 6

World's Shortest Man

Colombian Edward Nino Hernandez has been named as the world's shortest living man. BBC - JuneGloom07 Talk? 21:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Given that according to that article the record will be broken again in October - and then to the smallest ever. I Oppose until October :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I'll come back next month then. ;) - JuneGloom07 Talk? 00:05, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Support As of now, he is world's shortest living man. --Saki talk 01:37, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not newsworthy / who cares? Nightw 08:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Why not newsworthy? Don't you think Google News 350+ hits not enough [51]???--Saki talk 11:58, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not significant. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:45, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Publicity release for a book, not real news. Kevin McE (talk) 05:45, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as per above. --Diego Grez (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Guatemala landslides

Death toll rises to 38, dozens missing [52] [53] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 11:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Just shed some light on this, it was caused by a tropical depression. I've written up an article on the system at Tropical Depression Eleven-E (2010). Cyclonebiskit (talk) 15:33, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Can a smarter person than me reset Template:ITN-Update, then, since it's still showing 21 hours since last update? C628 (talk) 20:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

It needs an admin to do it at the moment. I've asked on RFPP to see if that can be reset without disabling cascading protection. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:04, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I'll try. Mr. R00t Talk 02:07, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Never mind, I guess I can't. Mr. R00t Talk 02:08, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Death of Mohammed Fahim

The first vice president of Afghanistan dies. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 11:25, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Neutral I probably would've supported if he was assassinated, but he had cancer. Either way, the article needs a major re-write (his cause of death isn't mentioned anywhere, amongst other issues). ~DC Let's Vent 16:01, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Neutral It's important but not altogether interesting in any way. Mr. R00t Talk 17:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Not extraordinarily notable to anyone outside of Afghanistan. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:34, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not of sufficient international significance to warrant ITN treatment. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support' International media giving him much coverage. --Saki talk 01:39, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Moldovan constitutional referendum, 2010

- Was held yesterday and the result was against due to low turnout [54] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 06:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

support when results are known elections/referendums for ITN (Kenya's constitution was recently posted, if memory serves). This is bigger, its a failure and a government will fall..(Lihaas (talk) 09:37, 6 September 2010 (UTC));
Oppose the people of Moldova didn't care enough to vote, no-one here has cared enough to update the article properly, so why should we? --Mkativerata (talk) 10:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Need more in the article about the impact of the results. SpencerT♦C 00:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

September 5

Fire in San Francisco Church, Valparaíso

A great fire affects the National Monument of Chile, San Francisco Church, in Valparaíso. Damages estimated in around 5 million dollars. Diego Grez (talk) 15:19, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

As its not a world heritage site, while sad I oppose. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 15:26, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Valparaíso is a World Heritage Site. Diego Grez (talk) 15:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
It appears the historic quarter is. OK then weak support assuming this church is in the historic quarter of the city - as the UNESCO website is down at the moment I can't check whether it is or not. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 15:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment, I moved this up from the Sep. 3 section, since it was nominated on the 5th. Anyone disagrees, feel free to revert. C628 (talk) 16:20, 5 September 2010 (UTC) week support very sad Weaponbb7 (talk) 17:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Support - per nom - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 18:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment I don't know... the update isn't anything to write home about. -- tariqabjotu 20:50, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. While very sad, it is only one building within the WHS historic quarter, and one which does not seem to receive much attention. Traffic stats to the article show only 150 hits in the last two days; none from the days immediately following the event, and none at all from the month of August. If it was a slow news day, maybe... Nightw 08:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Probably because the article was created on September 5... --Diego Grez (talk) 17:18, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Kabul Bank

Depositors in Afghanistan withdraw funds from Kabul Bank amid concerns about its financial health.--Chaser (talk) 01:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

This has been in the news a lot the last few days. Two bank officials resigned at the beginning of the week after risky loans to Karzai's associates and risky investments in Dubai real estate. Since then Afghan's central bank has considered a bailout to keep the bank afloat and the nascent financial system healthy. I can finish updating the article, but is this ITN worthy? Given the international interest in Afghanistan's development, I think so.--Chaser (talk) 01:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Possibly, i may consider a weak support. BUT the whole background (which would be better as an history section or something of the sort (perhaps see other such articles)) section is unreferenced and appears as WP:OR. The latest stuff seems sourced well, but then it would be WP:Recentism. Also the lead can be cut short on an article so small.Lihaas (talk) 10:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose failing banks are really not that newsworthy in the middle of recession even if they happen in one of the poorest countries in the world.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:58, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
If Western nations bail out the bank, that would be ITN-worthy.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
IMO if any nation (maybe even including Afghanistan itself) bails out the bank it'll be ITN worthy. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:21, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Any day now: Afghan government poised to bail out Kabul Bank.--Chaser (talk) 03:43, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 Hugo Awards

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - Saturn and Sream awards, for example, also are not published in the ITN. I guess, it's because of relatively low relevance... Crnorizec (talk) 13:13, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The Saturn Award and the Scream Awards are for film only. Plus, I'm not sure how that's an argument. It's like saying that because we don't post the Golden Globes that we shouldn't post the Oscars. Anyway, in support, I would argue that the Hugos are the most presgigious SF/Fantasy awards for film or literature (though admittedly the only evidence I have is a google search for most prestigious science fiction award). If we go by WP:ITNR, we don't post many awards for literature at all (as opposed to sports champions of every conceivable form of competition). They are international awards, though generally limited to English Language works. Also, I would argue that if we look at some of the winners of the Hugos, such as JK Rowling or Arthur C. Clarke, the awards are quite relavent to modern culture.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:40, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose at the moment We should mention the Top winners, until that announcement lets hold off on mentioning. Weaponbb7 (talk) 17:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose In my view, the field of the awards is too narrow to be of ITN significance. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose simply a genre award. Courcelles 20:43, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support when updated. Not only is the story of international significance - it has actual personal relevance for many, because Hugo award winners usually make for good reading. Wnt (talk) 22:37, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

ETA ceasefire

(BBC) I haven't looked in here for a while but surely the ETA ceasefire announced today is worth posting? - Dumelow (talk) 11:05, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Support looks notable and important. Top on the BBC in the UK. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 12:35, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment - is really a permanent ceasefire? I don't believe it. We have already a PRECEDENT...I think it's the quiet before the storm. So oppose for now. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Of obvious significance in a long-running terrorist campaign. Much more worthy than posting any and all >X dead bomb attack. MickMacNee (talk) 14:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose the BBC article says its not clear if ceasefire is temporary or permanent. they have done this before.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:53, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
    Twice in god knows how many decades. This fact does not make it any less significant. I think even the IRA did it twice before finaly doing exactly what has happened here, in a conflict also spanning decades. Like I said, if 'terrorism' is a significant topic for ITN, then the signficance of an announcement like will always piss all over the routine bomb notifications we always post no questions asked, no matter how temporary or uncertain it appears to be. MickMacNee (talk) 15:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support per MickMacNee. ~DC Let's Vent 16:43, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • supportA break through to be sure Weaponbb7 (talk) 17:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
It goes without saying that the update needs to be made first, of course. At present there is just one line on it at ETA#Current events - Dumelow (talk) 17:48, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment. This is possibly quite big news, but I think we need to wait for a response from the Spanish government before posting. The last ETA "permanent ceasefire" ended after only 8 months in December 2006 with the Barajas Airport bombing, so a certain scepticism is to be expected. Physchim62 (talk) 19:09, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Support I added some stuff, with as much of a government announcement as there is so far.. C628 (talk) 20:16, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Update looks good. Any suggestions for a decent blurb? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Perhaps we should wait so see how seriously the Spanish newspapers play it in Monday morning's editions? We can check at [55] -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:02, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • The Spanish press (at least in their online versions) treat this as a significant announcement: top story on the websites of all the major newspapers (although the "spin" varies according to the political viewpoint of the newspaper concerned!) Physchim62 (talk) 00:43, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
      • I think their print editions will provide a better indication as to how historic this is -- whether they go for the 72-point monster headline or see it as just an ordinary biggest story of the day. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
        • Here are today's headlines from the Spanish press print editions:
  • La Vanguardia: "Insufficient truce"
  • Diario de Burgos, Diario de Sevilla: "The government and opposition consider ETA's ceasefire announcement 'insufficient'"
  • Diario de Cadiz, Granada Hoy, Malaga Hoy: "ETA doesn't convince anyone with its new truce announcement"
  • El Punt: "Hope and misgivings after (?) new ceasefire from ETA"
  • El Pais: "'Insufficient' cease fire from ETA"
  • The Spanish seem to be of the belief that this ceasefire is not a ground-breaking initiative. In retrospect, we might have waited until the front pages became available to make our decision on this item. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

September 4

September 3