Open main menu

Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/May 2009

< Wikipedia:In the news‎ | Candidates

This page is an archive and its contents should be preserved in their current form;
any comments regarding this page should be directed to Template talk:In the news. Thanks.


Archived discussion for May 2009 from Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates.

May 31

ITN candidates for May 31

French Open
I notice the article on 2009 French Open has had plenty of edits today.--Chuck Marean 19:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as ITN has strict rules on reccurring events such as this that state only the winner goes up on to the main page.Jason Rees (talk) 19:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. We just put the winner up. --Tone 20:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


2014 World Cup
That's not such big news... --Tone 20:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


Last Titanic survivor dies

Millvina Dean, the last survivor of the sinking of RMS Titanic died today. I know that our rules for featuring deaths are pretty tight but it might be notable enough to go up. The article is pretty decent. (BBC story) - Dumelow (talk) 19:35, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Support - I think this is noteworthy. The Titanic was/is hugely famous and the death of the last survivor is arguably the most significant death related to the ship (other than maybe the captain) --Daviessimo (talk) 19:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. This is not really encyclopaedic type of news, can't be put in the same basket with deaths of presidents etc. --Tone 20:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Support - Despite our strict guidelines on this, I think that it is incredibly notable for ITN. Xclamation point 20:42, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per Tone. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand how this isn't encyclopaedic. The Titanic is one of, it not the most famous ship in the world and, as such, as the number of survivors decreases they move into a 'celebrity' (and I use the term loosely) like bracket of person, similar to say Harry Patch in relation to World War I, who almost come to symbolise the event itself. The result is that any living attachment to one of the most significant events of the century is now gone --Daviessimo (talk) 22:27, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
This one is hard. But im gonna have to go with support on this. truly historical in nature. this is not something that can happen ever again. i disagree with Tone that this is similar to a president's death since they keep changing and will forever. Titanic cant sink again (and please dont say that ships sink all the time cause that is not much of an argument). Ashishg55 (talk) 23:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
after reading properly, Tone did not try to say that but u get what i mean...Ashishg55 (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, consensus seems to be pointing toward support. Please guys get prepared to defend your viewpoints since this item might draw complaints at WP:ERRORS or Talk:Main Page. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
ya there is gonna be bloodbath over at WP:ERRORS for this item. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
There are valid arguments to be made for and against this item's inclusion, and I'm inclined to lean against it. (Incidentally, the argument that Dean was a like a celebrity holds little weight, as we don't ordinarily list celebrity deaths unless the circumstances are extraordinary.)
However, none of this is even relevant yet, as the article has not been updated to reflect Dean's death beyond a brief mention of the fact that it occurred (and tense changes, etc.). Until the article is updated to document significant ramifications of her death (e.g. world leaders commenting), it doesn't meet the "update" criterion (so the above debate is moot). —David Levy 01:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


Famous bike race
Support. This was updated today here.--Chuck Marean 22:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose since Tour de France is the only cycling event outside of the Olympics that gets put upJason Rees (talk) 22:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Why is that? The Giro is a major race. --ZimZalaBim talk 22:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
But if you add the Giro, then why not others. Given that the Tour de France is in a class of its own according to the UCI World Ranking, its fair to say that the other races are not as 'big' --Daviessimo (talk) 22:34, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Makes sense; wasn't aware of the differentiation in the world rankings. --ZimZalaBim talk 01:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
If I understand that correctly, the Giro d'Italia is at the same level as the Vuelta a España? So why not have all three? I don't think Spain has a recurring ITN... --candlewicke 03:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

May 30

ITN candidates for May 30

Super 14

This should go up if the article is ever updated. It's on WP:Recurring events Nil Einne (talk) 00:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Somebody forgot about this. I'm afraid it won't make it now unless we bend the rules... –Howard the Duck 16:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
South Ossetian parliamentary election, 2009

The partially recognized Caucasian republic of South Ossetia holds parliamentary elections. Offliner (talk) 12:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

How about this wording: The European Union renounces the 2009 parliamentary election in South Ossetia as void. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Support but Georgia too seems to have renounced it so perhaps it ought to mention both? --candlewicke 02:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Fine, going to post soon.. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Why not just use a neutral wording such as "The ruling Unity Party wins the 2009 parliamentary election in South Ossetia" like we do in almost all other elections as well? I don't EUs or Georgia's point-of-view is the important thing here. What is important is the Ossetians people have democratically chosen their parliament. Outside opinion of the elections is not important for South Ossetia. Let's just use a more neutral wording such as the one I suggested. Offliner (talk) 02:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I've tweak the blurb, to include the ruling party. I still think the EU's declaration is significant (not sure about Georgia's though, since its POV is obvious) and to be neutral we have to present opposing viewpoints as well. Outside opinions of the elections may not be important for South Ossetia, but they are to us, since international perspectives do matter. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, the new wording is OK to me. Offliner (talk) 02:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


South Africa Whales...

story is getting quite a bit of attention. But i assume there is no article regarding the story? kinda sad story. i doubt there will be opposition to this... all depends on article. what do u guys think? Ashishg55 (talk) 21:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

A news link, please? --BorgQueen (talk) 21:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
i really thought i put a link lol BBC TorontoStar im still debating on the notability. Ashishg55 (talk) 21:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
National Sea Rescue Institute is a stub, and there is the Beached whale article (I imagine a new section "Human rescue efforts" or similar in the Beached whale article where this update could fit, perhaps!). Large scale beaching of whales is probably not that common.--Amplitude101 (talk) 15:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually it's resonably common. I can remember several instances here in NZ and also Australia over the past few years. I definitely don't think these sort of incidents are notable in themselves. In any case <tongue in cheek>oppose, too much violence/deaths on ITN Nil Einne (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Agree, it's always some species or another looking for human attention... --candlewicke 02:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


Hanging.
I'm nominating this in case someone wants to update an article. I don't have time right now. The article says the hanging happed today, and outside in public.--Chuck Marean 20:58, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Okay now you have me stumped. I thought you didn't like violence/deaths on ITN? Nil Einne (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
A look at his user page may provide a clue. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 04:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this clue an obvious one? --candlewicke 01:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


Rosa Luxemburg mystery solved ...maybe

Before yelling at me "it has not been confirmed", please note that this is just to keep an eye on the theory... in case a DNA test confirms that the body is indeed Luxemburg, which would make it a truly significant news. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:50, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


Sudan clashes

From the BBC. Apparently around 250 people (including 75 police who tried to intervene) have been killed in clashes between rival nomadic bands. It involved about 3,000 armed horsemen of the Messiria and Rizeigat tribes. This strikes me as an interesting case, I had no idea that such large scale clashes between tribes still occurred. This is involves more people than some historical battles and must be worthy of its own article. There doesn't seem to be one at the moment so I will see if I can make one, any ideas for article titles? - Dumelow (talk) 11:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. Perhaps 2009 Sudanese nomadic conflicts? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
OK, I created the article and added info from the BBC. I still want to get some other sources for this though - Dumelow (talk) 12:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a well-worded blurb please. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:14, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Something along the lines of: "Around 250 people, including 75 police officers, are killed in clashes between the Rizeigat and Messiria nomadic tribes in South Kurdufan, Sudan"? I am never any good at writing taglines - Dumelow (talk) 13:31, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Opposed. Too much of that sort of thing already. Boring. --Chuck Marean 15:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
That's alright, keep doing it. You will eventually realize no one takes your words seriously here. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:11, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
I think your only problem is that the blurb is about violence. There is a lot of violence in the world and these sort of things get world-wide attention. --Amplitude101 (talk) 15:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Mingora

The Pakistani military fully regains control of Mingora, the largest town in the Swat Valley, from the Taliban. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Believing that no one will object, going to post this soon to alleviate our Pakistan-deficiency. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:25, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, good call. It is certainly worthy of going on the main page and I would have supported if I had been around - Dumelow (talk) 11:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


Wine drinking
Favor. It has world wide interest, but like local cyclones and earthquakes, doesn’t need to affect the entire world -- although actually it might effect the world economy, lowering the price of wine from France. Chuck Marean 00:50, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
wow, this rates high up in my useless news list. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
What next? Cows laying eggs? --candlewicke 03:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Ludicrously minor non-news item--and a three-day old one, at that (check the date on the story). --CalendarWatcher (talk) 13:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand why you would oppose a non-violent news item. In the news should be like something they would give you to read in school. This is an encyclopedia. I didn't notice it was three days old. --Chuck Marean 14:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
They are not opposing because its non-violent, but probably because its nothing more than a trivial statistics update. We do have "good news" like elections on the main page very often, presence of violence in a news item is not the criteria for inclusion here. --Amplitude101 (talk) 15:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Violence or non-violence--since I did not mention or even imply that as an issue--is entirely a product of your imagination. Your unwillingness to take even minimal care when dredging up your non-stories, however, is. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 04:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Luís Cabral
  • Nominate Luís Cabral since he was the first president of an independent Guinea-Bissau. Other first presidents or leaders have been posted on the main page before. (Ibrahim Nasir, first president of the Maldives). Feel free to disagree with the nomination, but please do not delete this nomination. Thanks. Scanlan (talk) 02:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

May 29

ITN candidates for May 29

Beamish and Crawford

The closure of the iconic Beamish brewery in Cork ends a chapter in the city's centuries-old brewing heritage.

Brewers have been making beer at the current South Main Street site since 1690.

Brewing at the Beamish site can be traced back to the 17th Century and its mock-Tudor counting house is a protected structure. (Now owned by "Dutch brewing giant" Heineken who want to sell it and - more taken from the Examiner below - "However, heritage campaigners have vowed to continue their fight for the development of a micro-brewery tourist attraction on the site. The National Conservation and Heritage Group is due to meet diplomats at the Dutch embassy in Dublin on June 9 to discuss their campaign. A petition gathering exercise is also planned.")

Heineken has presented the Beamish archives – probably one of the most complete brewing archives in Ireland or England – to the city archives. Cork City and County archivist Brian McGee described the documents as "a major resource for historians". The landmark Beamish building has been professionally photographed and videoed, and Diarmúid O Drisceóil has been commissioned to write a book on the site’s history.

Oh yeah, and it's the oldest brewery in a country which just has that type of reputation... :-/ --candlewicke 07:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

And, how could I forget, it's peaceful too! :) :) :) --candlewicke 07:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Also wondering whether the item concerning the world's longest-running chat show presenter change is relevant? --candlewicke 12:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Again, for these, they are interesting, but they tend to gravitate towards more local interest. Not quite ITN material. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Er, even the closure of something that has been open for centuries? The latter one is always followed by the BBC who seem to run regular articles each time the presenter changes hands... I suppose it's the longest running thing really that made that worth a nomination. But what about my carefully laid out points about it being valuable in the entire history of brewing, even outside country of origin? If we could have the British MPs being suspended for the first time in several centuries, well... this is similar really... except there is no way back for this... :) :) :) --candlewicke 03:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
If the centuries old institution of law and even widely followed outside the country of origin was banished at the ITN, I don't think how this should make it. –Howard the Duck 03:36, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


Support. --candlewicke 13:47, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Strong support, but the article needs to be expanded a bit, with more citations. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Is anyone willing to expand this important article? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there still time? Where's a microbiologist when you need them... --candlewicke 00:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


Sri Lankan Civil War Death Toll

The Times newspaper says it has evidence that as many as 20,000 civilians were killed in the final four months of the Sri Lankan Civil War, most of them as a result of shelling by the Sri Lankan military. This story has been picked up by most of the world's leading news organisations (Al Jazeera, BBC News, CNN, The Hindu, Reuters, Sydney Morning Herald). The UN says it cannot confirm the figures and the Sri Lankan government has of course denied the allegations. The Channel 4 News report had somebody from Chatham House saying that the figure seems credible based on the number of civilians who were trapped in the 'Safe Zone' and how many managed to escape to the internment camps i.e. the difference was due to deaths in the 'Safe Zone'. No doubt there will people who will object strongly to this being included but there's no harm in trying. Obi2canibe (talk) 20:19, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Strong Oppose, ---Sir John Holmes, the head of the UN office for the coordination of humanitarian affairs (OCHA)...Asked about a report in the Times claiming 20,000 civilians may have been killed in the final throes of the campaign, Holmes denied it was based on UN figures. "The truth is we simply don't know. It doesn't reflect any estimate we made for ourselves. We did have our own internal estimate until the end of April. After that, we didn't have anyone on the ground," the British diplomat said." ----- [1] Denied by the UN. Should not be used. - [[User:HumanFrailty]] (talk) 22:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I had no doubts you posted this here. Are you in a period of mourning now coz Prabha is dead? HumanFrailty (talk) 22:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
    • most of them as a result of shelling by the Sri Lankan military Yes, we all know the LTTE walked on flowers and never hurt anybody. Damn propaganda by the Sri Lankan government! HumanFrailty (talk) 22:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Sri Lankan government has of course denied the allegations Did you know the government admitted that there were high casualties in the 1983 riots? HumanFrailty (talk) 22:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Did the Tamil disapora accept the destruction of the LTTE? oh, where will your money go now, Canibe (instead of Prabha's pockets)? HumanFrailty (talk) 22:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

May 28

ITN candidates for May 28

Murder of eight year old Victoria (Tori) Stafford

Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, and Michael Thomas C. S. Rafferty, 28, will be tried separately on charges of 1st-degree murder in the murder of eight year old Victoria Stafford.CBC News This story has been in the news since before Easter (April 8) as OPP were searching for the missing grade 3 (8 year old) Woodstock, Ontario girl. The search has now changed based on video footage, leads and tips. Police and forensic teams are now searching for the body of Tori based around the city of Guelph, about 45 minutes north east of Woodstock.SriMesh | talk 20:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Never heard of it. Probably not at any rate on so many points, i.e. the nature of the case and fact that "will be tried" suggests there hasn't even been a verdict yet. Also, showing my immunity to death again, there is only one person involved and that person being a child doesn't really make it any more significant. People die every day. Children die every day. People are murdered every day. People are tried for murder every day. People are jailed every day. Police and forensic teams do that type of work every day. I hope that doesn't sound too cruel. :) --candlewicke 22:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
its huge news in toronto, but i live here so obviously i hear about it more. i cant say whats the status internationally. as much as i hate to say it, ITN standards are much higher. There will be way too much opposition. And it will only make the event more cruel when people start bit*hing about it. so lets just leave it. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if it's as well known as, for example, the Fritzl case and disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Don't think either of those would even make it if they were nominated now. --candlewicke 01:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - IMHO, only very severe crimes (such as mass murder, terrorism, billion pound fraud cases, assasinations of high ranking figures etc) are noteworthy enough to go up, and even then it is the vedict rather than charges that are put up. --Daviessimo (talk) 07:21, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 Yambol bus crash

16 have died TouLouse (talk) 16:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. TodorBozhinov 18:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if sixteen deaths would be enough to satisfy everyone but I like the fact that the Prime Minister and President rushed to the scene and messed up their daily schedules in the process... --candlewicke 19:39, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I though that 16 died it's too much...(how many deaths to be on ITN? 100?) Was a horrible accident...TouLouse (talk) 19:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes actually, in a lot of cases... and yes, I apologise, sixteen is definitely too many but being around ITN has made me immune to this type of thing... --candlewicke 19:50, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. I also need a good excuse to immerse myself in Bulgaria-related articles, or less flippantly, Bulgaria doesn't often enter the headlines. __meco (talk) 19:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Support also - Regarding the death toll issue, I think how the deaths occured is more important. For example also today you have bomb blasts in Pakistan and Iran that have killed 10+, but the sad reality is that these militant attacks are extremely common at the moment in countries with large muslim populations. As such a logical 'minimum' death toll is needed for this type of attack otherwise every other item would be one (if not a bomb in Iran or Pakistan then Iraq, Afghanistan, India etc etc). In this instance, the deaths have been seemingly accidental and generally major bus crashes are less common --Daviessimo (talk) 20:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
29 May was declared a national day of mourning in Bulgaria (really important, candlewicke!) TouLouse (talk) 20:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I've expanded the article, I believe it's good enough to hit the Main Page so people can assist with the latest news and expand it further. TodorBozhinov 20:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, I didn't oppose, did I? I thought I said I liked it... and if it's had an effect nationally I like it even more... --candlewicke 22:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
This looks ready now. "At least 16 people die and at least 20 others are injured following a bus accident in Yambol, Bulgaria." That good enough? --candlewicke 02:11, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting. SpencerT♦Nominate! 02:49, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

This seems to be a news item of little international importance. Road accidents with substantial numbers of casualties happen somewhere every day.--Ezeu (talk) 06:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree too...You know a mine disaster in China will cause more than 20 deaths......Bus accidents are too common.....Alonso McLaren (talk) 07:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Despite the nation's reactions to the accident, it ought not to appear in the main page's news section. Eakka (talk) 08:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree too. --82.60.81.29 (talk) 12:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Removed. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


Discovery of the earliest evidence of leprosy

A skeleton showing earliest evidence of leprosy has been found in India. [2] Notable enough? --BorgQueen (talk) 08:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Support - seems like a pretty significant discovery to me --Daviessimo (talk) 09:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, we can either create Balathal, the archaeological site where the skeleton has been found (in current Rajasthan), or update leprosy. I will, as soon as I get some rest first.. Any help is appreciated too. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Support as well. --candlewicke 16:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone already updated Leprosy#India, but too short yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I've expanded the India section of the article so I think this is good to go now --Daviessimo (talk) 07:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


Dinosaur
This has world-wide interest. It was in the World section of the New Zealand Herald, and was about a scientist at in England.--Chuck Marean 23:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Needs an updated article. --Stephen 23:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I actually like this one; although I think you accidentally used long-tailed instead of long-necked. I find this fascinating as it gives a major change to what dinosaurs looked like, especially since we think of sauropods, such as diplodocus, as being long, not tall. Maybe some rewording of the headline to make it more specific would be useful too, if possible, the name of the scientist (s) and the exact species of dinosaur they were studying, diplodocus shows up in the article so I think using that should be fine. As for the article, maybe consult with Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs as to which article to have updated with this information. Cyclonebiskit 23:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I think you did something wrong at P:CE and in my attempts to fix it I've actually made it worse... can anyway sort it out? --candlewicke 23:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Ahh this is funny, yesterday we had two May 26. today we got May 2009. we got some very dumb date problems going on at ITN/C lol Ashishg55 (talk) 00:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
well i tried. i fixed it in portals itself but it doesnt wanna show up fixed here. there seems to be 2 pages for may 28. maybe its getting confused. an admin may need to delete one. Ashishg55 (talk) 00:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
We seem to have lost the day of the week that's supposed to be in brackets now... and I get a blank page when I click edit... --candlewicke 01:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I did this update here while trying to get this qualified.--Chuck Marean 03:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC) Somebody removed the item from Current events (here) but I don't have any puppets so I can't put it back without wasting my 3 reverts. --Chuck Marean 05:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC) Maybe the item could be: “British Scientist suggests changing the posture of dinosaur skeletons to reflect current views."

Problem with this is that it is not definitive. In the BBC article on it, phrases like "may have" are used. This is one set of finding and seems to be contested by many other scientists, who suggest that the strain on the body of the dinosaur in order to hold the head high all the time mean this is simply a theory (rather than scientifically proven fact). As such, I don't think it should go up because wiki is supposed to be neutral and this would be clearly pushing one side of the argument --Daviessimo (talk) 09:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
It's more peaceful than an earthquake. This is another wording: London Natural History Museum keeps Diplodocus in traditional pose despite recent study.(New Zealand Herald). You will notice there is less violence in it than your earthquake item. --Chuck Marean 15:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
What does the fact that it is non-violent news have to do with it? All this story is saying is that the London Natural History museum has decided keep its diplodocus bone arrangement in its present condition despite one study which says that they may have actually held their necks upright. This is not, I feel, newsworthy enough - Dumelow (talk) 15:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
It was in the world section of the paper it was from, and it it about dinosaurs. --Chuck Marean 16:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
again with the non violence. ITN really does not care about how much violence is in news item... this story in itself is not worthy or interesting enough. Doesnt matter if it was in world section. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
If the peace-loving user were to hang around ITN more often they might become immune to death, violence and misery. Clearly this has already happened to me, having just been dismissive of sixteen deaths in a bus accident... --candlewicke 19:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


Moldova presidential election

The Moldovan Parliament votes for a new president again today. Last time they were one vote short of electing a candidate. They are allowed three attempts at a vote by 8 June or else they must hold new parliamentary elections. Article at Moldovan_parliamentary_election,_2009#Election_of_a_new_president. This will be newsworthy either today (if a president is elected) or by 8 June (with the dissolution of parliament). (Reuters) - Dumelow (talk) 07:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Never mind, they voted to postpone the election until 3 June as today is Ascension Day in Eastern Christianity. The 3 June vote will now be their last chance to elect a president or parliament will be dissolved (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 12:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


Glowing Monkeys

Do we have any article on the glowing monkey research. This is actually very interesting. First time a genetically enhanced trait got passed down the bloodline. And news doesnt get better than humans creating glowing monkeys. Not our usual ITN material but once in a while its good to have these kinda items. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The "first trait passed down" sounds interesting, but is it strictly true? For example, I think that golden rice contain foreign genes, and can reproduce. Thue | talk 22:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
well i think they've achieved it on plants not animals. Plant dna is different? i'm not much of a biologist Ashishg55 (talk) 22:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Support glowing monkeys to be posted on the Main Page! :) --candlewicke 22:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 Georgian demonstrations

Several people are injured in a clash between opposition protesters and police at rally outside the Georgian parliament in Tbilisi.[3] Offliner (talk) 06:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Do let us know when they retrieve a few bodies. :) --candlewicke 07:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

May 27

ITN candidates for May 27

2009 UEFA Champions League Final
This has already been nominated. Please include the image as well. --candlewicke 20:56, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Some football


Wording presumably depends on the result? There are some free images available too, including the venue. --candlewicke 14:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. Major, well-followed, sporting event. SpencerT♦Nominate! 18:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think we usually post scores, presuming that interested parties will click for more info, so WORDING1 it is then (please make sure it is updated). --candlewicke 21:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Ready now I think. I've done most of the tenses anyway. --candlewicke 21:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
FC Barcelona "defeat" Manchester United the current wording is wrong it needs to be changed to "defeats"--85.74.202.227 (talk) 12:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
In BrE it is common to refer to a team in collective noun form, meaning defeat is correct --Daviessimo (talk) 12:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it just me or is there no prose in the article about what happened on the game per se? –Howard the Duck 17:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe it was removed? --candlewicke 01:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I saw them on an older revision. I'll restore them... –Howard the Duck 03:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
It was a copyvio [4]. This has to be taken down until someone comes up with an original summary. –Howard the Duck 03:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
There's a one-day old WP:ERRORS issue with this article. An admin should fix that. –Howard the Duck 03:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorted now. :) --candlewicke 02:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


Russia and U.S. uranium export deal
Here is a good one for the US and yet nobody notices it? Hmmm... --candlewicke 01:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Actually, the whole Russia-United States relations is in a bad shape, which is odd considering that it is a U.S. topic and is given the media spotlight quite often. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


National Assembly of Niger is dissolved
Is anyone willing to update the article? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I am a bit short of time at the moment (I have exams on) so I don't think I can make any updates myself, but the dissolution section of National Assembly of Niger seems to be reasonably well sourced and there is some background at Politics of Niger. Is this sufficient? - Dumelow (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Updated by User:Amplitude101. Lovely! Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


Cyclone Aila
This wording would be less macabre than a death count. Chuck Marean 20:51, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
"Pounds"?! Please... --candlewicke 20:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Why have you created a duplicate? This is for WP:ERRORS! --candlewicke 20:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
not to be rude but whats with all the G-Rated happy news BS. news isnt supposed to be happy. Most news items are violent. A cyclone is as violent as it gets. And ya this isnt the place for it anyways. Wording change should be in WP:ERRORS. Ashishg55 (talk) 21:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
How is "pounds" being more helpful than "kills" anyway? --candlewicke 21:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Now we have two todays... this is very odd... I don't want to live the same day again... --candlewicke 21:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
see what happens when people get impatient Ashishg55 (talk) 21:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
What's worse is that today has somehow become tomorrow or the dates have become mixed up. Where on earth do we move this to or can we keep it here? --candlewicke 21:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah there we go... it just needed a digit change... --candlewicke 21:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Im not sure i see the problem with the old hook to be honest as its the same one that was used for Typhoon Chanhom and im sure many other cyclones. Jason Rees (talk) 21:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Something like "Cyclone Aila (pictured) kills at least 211 people and leave more than 150,000 homeless in India and Bangladesh" -- seems better as it openly states what the situation is. Also, read up on WP:CENSOR, Wikipedia isn't a Child-heaven. It gives the facts without the ten and under shield. Cyclonebiskit 22:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


Launch of Soyuz TMA-15
  • Fairly significant, covered by WP:ITNR --GW 11:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

May 26

ITN candidates for May 26

Californian outlaws

The California Supreme Court will decide whether the state's ban on gay marriages will remain in place and also what will happen to the couples married before the ban was enacted. This is highly significant in the progress of gay marriage as California, with 36 million people, is the second-largest jurisdiction in the English-speaking world behind the UK. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:41, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. There's an ITN for the US... --candlewicke 01:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
If we must have the US today let's have this... it's the complete opposite of what usually happens with this topic. Hopefully the "this happens everywhere" argument doesn't apply because I don't think it does. --candlewicke 19:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
i dont mind this but can we wait for full results... as far as i can tell full info not available yet. Ashishg55 (talk) 20:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
nevermind, it got banned. do we still wanna post? i was hoping for a change in status. Saying its gonna stay banned isnt all that interesting lol Ashishg55 (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I would have thought it significant to the topic either way, ban or no ban... --candlewicke 20:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I suppose I should support, this originally being my idea. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose this since status quo wasn't changed. If the Supreme Court ruled against, this would've been a sure inclusion. It's like saying "incest is still illegal." No news there. –Howard the Duck 02:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, per Howard the Duck. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Me too, this judgement just means that nothing has changed - Dumelow (talk) 09:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the actual referendum would've made it anyway. –Howard the Duck 06:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the point was that the legislation was moving in the opposite direction than is normally the case... --candlewicke 16:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


Nomination of Sonia Sotomayor
  • U.S. President Barack Obama nominates Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court of the United States.
    • This type of entry is exactly why we have ITN. The nomination of a new SCOTUS justice is a huge event in American politics, since there are so few justices, they serve for life, and they have such a tremendous impact on people's lives. If confirmed, and with the Democrats controlling the Senate she probably will be, she will be the first Hispanic Supreme Court justice, which is a major landmark in U.S. history. There is a good article on Sotomayor already. Thousands of people -- perhaps hundreds of thousands -- will be visiting Wikipedia today for information on her; we ought to have a link from the main page for them. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 14:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. --bender235 (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose News value isn't a function of how many searches it gets, otherwise we'd only feature Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus. Sotomayor hasn't been even been confirmed yet and moreover this single event is of no more lasting importance than Souter's announcement of his retirement. Directly analogous to nomination for Presidency vs. election. This event doesn't even pass my smell test of being included on the "On This Day" template 10 or 50 or 100 years from now. Madcoverboy (talk) 16:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
We have already determined multiple times that article popularity doesnt (and shouldnt) play a role in ITN. And is this just a nomination or have they been sworn in? Considering that all countries have their own "supreme" court with their own nominations (even if they stay for life), we have never posted a nomination for any other country. I am opposing this till we can all agree that when Canada or India's (or any other country's) supreme court justice changes they will also be posted each time... seems like a stretch to me since we already post main elections... Ashishg55 (talk) 16:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose We didn't put the thing about the Supreme Court up last month, or whenever it was. Why do it now? Don't fuel the fires of the American-biased argument with this. This is not news to everyone outside America, and I'm not sure how many Americans care themselves. --I am Galileo,Watch me discover! 16:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
We didn't put it up last month because a Justice retiring isn't as newsworthy as his replacement getting announced. We're unlikely to update it again when/if Sotomayor gets confirmed because her confirmation is so likely as to almost be a foregone conclusion.--chaser (talk) 16:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and you cannot definitively assert that her nomination is a "foregone" conclusion especially in light of the extensive history of Unsuccessful nominations to the Supreme Court of the United States. Please remove the item. Madcoverboy (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Whats the point in us coming here and trying to help figure out good articles if they get posted without consent... Please remove this item till it is agreed on. thankyou. Ashishg55 (talk) 16:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I've notified User:Chaser about his action and asked him to revert. Madcoverboy (talk) 16:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Keep. It’s better than a car bombing. I’ve been adding peaceful headlines also, although someone has removed so many of them I take it personal. I think the car-bombing should be removed, since it’s bad news and promoting violence. Here's a shorter wording of the appointment, since I just heard about it: Obama nominates Sotomayor for Justice.(Washington Times) --Chuck Marean 16:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
This seems to be the very embodiment of POV editing. Madcoverboy (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I posted this without realizing this discussion was here, but in good faith following the guidelines that say admins should post things they think meet the criteria and then get consensus at this page (I was delayed because I uploaded a couple of images to commons). We also updated ITN for Alito and Roberts, and the former went back and forth before sticking. Any consensus on Sotomayor must tell us why we got it wrong before. This is the lead story on those news organizations that are yet reporting it (BBC, plus a bunch of American ones), so it is clearly of "international interest".--chaser (talk) 16:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Well you don't get delete articles or ban editors because "[you] think meet the criteria and then get consensus at this page" later. Revert the item and follow the rules. Madcoverboy (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Who would've thought the confirmation of this blurb at ITN gets more drama than the actual confirmation?! –Howard the Duck 16:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Note: Reported at Ireland, (Spanish) Peru, Al Jazeera, Australia and Morocco (French). All six populated continents are represented. This is sorta a record since Sotamayor was the first Hispanic judge to be nominated. –Howard the Duck 17:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Still poor precedent, by analogy Souter's retirement was announced BBC, Australia, Al Jazeera, Spain, etc. Madcoverboy (talk) 17:27, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
So what metric do you propose then? The Ruth Padel metric? "with the history and prestige of the appointment?" Or Padel's blurb was eventually removed after three long days so this doesn't count. What is our measure of "international interest"? –Howard the Duck 17:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
(If there's any consolation, there was no mention of Souter in Moroccan news until today. –Howard the Duck 17:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC))
Pausing to breathe for a moment to consider the actual historical and encyclopedic importance of the topic rather than getting caught up in the echo chamber. There is already a long-standing precedent regarding heads of state that no ITN should go up until they are officially elected. I see no reason why we should ignore this precedent for a much lower office, regardless of news coverage. If she is confirmed by the Senate and thus officially assumes the post, then we can start to have a discussion about whether or not she should appear on ITN. Madcoverboy (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Nah, admins add head of governments too. In fact there is an anti-presidential system bias here at ITN; in parliamentary democracies, there are several ways of which a political issue gets to be added, when the government falls, when new elections are called, when the results come up, and the formation of a new government. Whereas for presidential democracies (aside from the U.S.), the only way is via general elections. Of course presidents do not normally resign a la PMs, they either get to be deposed or serve out their terms. Presidents don't have new elections as a cushion to drop when the going gets bad. –Howard the Duck 18:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

I considered that, but the AP story says, "Barring the unexpected, Senate confirmation seems likely, given the large Democratic majority." Therefore, it seems the real "news" is today. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
One could just as well extrapolate poll data on November 3 or October 10 or September 1 to assume that Obama would win the presidency "barring the unexpected", but we didn't post until he was elected to the Presidence. One could likewise assume that Clinton wouldn't gain the nomination in mid-March but we still held off until the nomination was officially clinched. It doesn't mean we posted the item them nor is it cause to post it now. Whatever makes this story notable is about her becoming a member of the Supreme Court, not merely the process of being nominated. I have heard no logically-sound rationale for violating this stable precedent. Once she is confirmed, we can begin the discussion with regard to international importance of US Supreme Court appointees from an international perspective, etc. Madcoverboy (talk) 18:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Obama was officially elected by the Electoral College sometime in early December, although ITN added it on election night. We didn't add Super Tuesday (right call) since no candidate got the enough number of delegates to clinch. When Obama did, we didn't wait for the convention to add the blurb. –Howard the Duck 18:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
After thinking about it, it makes sense to add this once she sits on the bench. No opinion if the blurb would stay. If this stays, then if she sits on the bench, we shouldn't re-add it anymore. –Howard the Duck 18:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
To be honest Chaser, even if you feel there was a justification for it going up in the first place, given the level of opposition, it seems only seems fair that now the right thing to do is to take it down. Otherwise the very notion of using a concensus system when deciding what items should go up becomes pointless, because non-admin editors are liable to having their viewpoints overlooked. Just because you're a more experienced and frequent user does not mean that you're opinion is worth more --Daviessimo (talk) 17:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
There's a deeper principle at issue here than ITN rules or admins allegedly sidestepping them. Please explain to me how it would be fair to list both of the previous Republican President's successful nominees (I think Harriet Myers was listed, too, but haven't checked that), but not the current Democratic President's.--chaser (talk) 17:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The deeper principle at issue here is that some editors can make good-faith edits to some parts of Wikipedia and other established editors have no power to bold, revert, discuss them. If you want to have a discussion about precedents, rules, and so forth, bring them here to the discussion so that we as a community can reach a consensus on what to do. Don't unilaterally promote an item because you like it and then defend your actions by appealing to authority the same community granted to you in good faith. You on-going refusal to revert your edit undermines our ability to assume your willingness to engage in good faith discussion about whether it should have been promoted in the first place. Madcoverboy (talk) 17:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Admin's are supposed to be bold if they feel item should go up. BUT this does not apply when there is quite a bit of opposition to the topic. And for fairness issue - you seem to only be comparing democratic/republican... u do realize that its all american right? Our points above was not if its fair to a particular political party but how is it fair to other countries. This is not a sports item where a particular country's domestic sport is deemed more important. All supreme court nominees are of equal importance, doesnt matter if they are american or any other country. And all i was saying before was if this is going to stay up then we HAVE to respectfully post supreme court justice nominees (before they are even sworn in btw) for all countries. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
When I took up (a semester of) law sadly we didn't study the rulings of the Iranian, the Peruvian and the Moroccan equivalents. We did have tons of American, British and ICJ ones, though. I suppose several U.S. Supreme Court landmark cases are required readings for law schools everywhere, such as Miranda v. Arizona and the like. –Howard the Duck 18:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
If a landmark case were to take place. Im sure it would get consensus but a nomination, really? Trust me just because news showed up in BBC and few newspapers does not mean any one cares. She didnt even get sworn in for goodness sakes. Its not even final if she will. WP should feel embarrased if she doesnt accept the position. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Trust me, if this will get a hard time getting consensus, how would "landmark cases" fare? And "landmark cases" are only adjudged as "landmark cases" after a significant amount time, unless the case is about culture wars or something.
And I don't think the first Hispanic-American woman to be nominated wouldn't pass up the opportunity. It's like Bobby Jindal when he gets to be the first Indian American presidential nominee in 2012. –Howard the Duck 18:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it's accurate to say that if we put this up, we have to put up Supreme Court nominees for all countries. No other country's Supreme Court generates as much interest as the U.S. Supreme Court, especially among English speakers. The Supreme Court of Canada, for example, isn't even that widely followed in Canada, let alone in the rest of the world. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 17:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
So why did we post Mongolia electing a new president? Im sure him getting elected doesnt effect the entire world either... Your statement is heavily American-Biased. I was trying to avoid using that term till now but u almost defined american bias by saying other country's do not generate that much interest. If we follow that we can just post non-stop american news as its more likely to produce more interest than some small country's elections. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
That's why elections are sacred at ITN, we post them all, even show elections, even elections at Pitcairn Island (pop.: less than 50). Every country at least have an ITN blurb every few years due to elections. –Howard the Duck 18:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
So what are we trying to achieve here? pity ITNs? Just to get their name in they need to have an election. For all other matters its US news that will make it since it is obviously more widely followed. that really doesnt make sense to me... Ashishg55 (talk) 18:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Of course there must be some other things happening in a country other than elections; that'll be a very boring country if that's the case (San Marino, perhaps?). And actually, there are some pity ITNs, especially in the guise of "yay! we have a possible item from Foo! LET'S ADD IT! It's the only time this year they'll be at ITN anyway!" –Howard the Duck 18:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Keep. Non-violent lists are better. If anything is to be changed, take the gratuitous violence out of the cyclone. Maybe: Cyclone Aila (pictured) reported in Bangladesh and India. This so the item doesn’t relish in the deaths. --Chuck Marean 18:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

you have already given a keep in this conversation... And ITN doesnt care about violence. have you picked up a newspaper lately? Almost all news is violent. comparatively ITN has a lot less violence. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Her nomination, which based on recent history, could easily be effectively rejected is not sufficient for ITN. When and if she makes it to bench perhaps Nil Einne (talk) 18:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

When the Senate recesses next month I think he could just commission her, but he is allowing the Senate to participate anyhow.Chuck Marean 18:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Well if that happens then we put it up then... From what I can tell based on Recess appointment, it's far from as simple as you seem to suggest and could easily result in a constitutional crisis if the candidate is rejected which would mean we should definitely put it up if that happens Nil Einne (talk) 19:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment Howard the Duck's claim that we are biased against presidential systems is grossly inaccurate. Our actual bias is, against countries with infrequent elections and stable governments. In fact, in the US a President can be removed if he is impeached. The US could also allow recall elections for the President if they so wished, as some other countries with allegedly undemocratic governments which the US feels can legitimately be removed in coups have. Regardless, in reality many parliamentary democracies even those with proportional representation often do end up with fairly stable governments. I strongly suspect an analysis of the the statistics, particularly if you exclude countries with extremely volatile situations would reveal the average time between elections is over 2 years. Probably 3-4 years. While other countries do often have local elections seperate from national/central government elections, there is little consensus to have these (I believe the London mayorality elections did go up but was taken down) and I would agree with that stance. Yet for the US, we do have I believe consensus to include the mid term elections as these affect the federal government in a direct manner, which means that we feature US elections every 2 years at a minimum. If you count the addition of nomination of presidential candidates, election plus swearing in (which whether with consensus or not, we appear to have added) we in fact end up with US election related stuff a lot more then many other countries. So in reality, the claim of HTD that we are biased against Presidential systems is easily proven to be bullshit. As I've already said, we are 'biased' against countries with stable government and infrequent elections. For example, NZ & Australian ~ 3 years, UK elections are every ~ 4 years, Indian, South Africa & Malaysian ~ 5 years. Naturally, we have NZ & Australian more common then UK more common then Malaysia, India, and South Africa. Canada's recent governments appear to have been more unstable so we probably will have them more often then the expected 4 years but even then I expect an analysis will show it's infact probably less common then 2 years. And there are a lot of things that can happen in the US which would likely cause major problems sufficient to warrant inclusion in ITN not disimilar to possibilities in parliamentary systems. E.g. if Congress and the President deadlock over the budget and neither side backs down. Or I would presume in other areas of law or appointments (e.g. what happens if the President keeps sending the same candidate to be the next Supreme Court justice?). There is no reason these can't happen. The implications of these are I believe unclear (unlike in a parliamentary democracy when they are effectively a vote of no confidence in the government and would mean the government has to resign) but that doesn't mean they aren't legal possibilities Nil Einne (talk) 19:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

How many U.S. presidents have been convicted by the Senate after the House impeached him? Zip, although I explicitly excluded U.S. events since they are widely followed. Although perhaps we'd see more news about coups on presidential democracies rather than parliamentary ones so that balances things... nicely. Sure, there are no stats yet, but once we have 4 years worth of ITN archives we can dissect it and dis/prove this theory. I didn't discriminate stable governments from unstable since both system have a share of unstable governments. –Howard the Duck 19:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
That's somewhat irrelevant. Your argument is that we are biased in favour of parliamentary democracies. My point, is that you are quite wrong. What were are really biased is in favour of frequent elections. Countries with frequent elections, like the US, Australia and NZ get on ITN more often then countries with infrequent ones like India, South Africa and Malaysia. There is no reason why a country using a presidential system can't have more frequent elections then a parliamentary one. In fact, if you allow easy recall elections or impeachements, I can easily see it being more common even ignoring term lengths. Now having easy recall elections may not be a good idea but that's nothing to do with whether we are inherently biased against presidential systems. Indeed it appears the the Philippines has elections every 3 years (including 'mid term' elections) somewhat similar to the US. I'm lazy to go thorough the history, but I'm presuming we did feature the mid term elections in 2007 and even if we didn't, we would have consensus if it was proposed and the article was up to scratch. This compares to India, Singapore, and Malaysia who follow parliamentary systems with elections ~5 years (in Malaysia and Singapore they have generally been 4.5-5 years, not sure about India). So again, your argument is inherently flawed. Nil Einne (talk) 14:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
The U.S. has elections every year. The major one is every 4 years and "mid-terms" every 2 years. Recall elections are somewhat rarer than regular ones, the last one I can think of was Hugo Chavez's and we added that since it's an election, and we add all national elections. An example of a presidential democracy in Argentina, the somewhat confusingly named "parliamentary" elections are held every 2 years a la the American model. I don't think we added the 2007 result (only the presidential one, although I'm not sure on this). On other presidential democracies, the presidential and legislative elections are synchronized, and usually, the legislative results in the blurb are omitted. –Howard the Duck 15:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I read that ITN started by following recent developments in the Manhattan Project. However, I think it should be a list of peaceful things. A list of problems is poor reading. Chuck Marean 20:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Support If Wikipedia was around, I'm sure the nomination of Thurgood Marshall (first African American) and Sandra Day O'Connor (first woman) would have been featured on ITN. This nomination is even more groundbreaking considering the rising influence of Hispanics in the western hemisphere. It has already gotten international press plus there is the precedent of the Roberts and Alito nominations. This is more historical than either of those two. AgneCheese/Wine 20:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Nominations and appointments of people to supreme courts (of any country) should not go up. Otherwise we would be forever featuring appointments to the Australian, Canadian, the upcoming British and the Indian (etc.) supreme courts. Much of the support seems to state that the US court is more important than the supreme courts of every other country in the world which is clearly wrong (the Indian court covers at least three times as many people for example), or even more bizarrely that it should be featured in a quest for "good news". This (and similar nominations) should not go up now nor in the future - Dumelow (talk) 20:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Are Supreme Court nominations other than the U.S. even reported widely on other countries? I've demonstrated that other Supreme Court's cases aren't that studied elsewhere. –Howard the Duck 02:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Where did you demonstrate that? All I saw was you arguing from a singular instance of personal experience. And with all due respect your personal experience is worthless. I'm presuming your personal experience came from the Philippines. As I'm guessing you must know, many of the Filipino legal and political systems were modeled after US ones for historical and social reasons. There's nothing wrong with this, but it seems logical that in such a system you will indeed study US cases extensively. I strongly suspect that in many commonwealth countries, you're more likely to study legal decisions in other commonwealth countries. To some extent this includes the US, but say here in NZ, I suspect Australian and British decisions are of much greater interest. Particularly since the US system, also has quite a few key differences such the death penalty still being allowed, any cosideration if international law often appears taboo, relating to free speech and the media circus vs the perceived need for suppression orders to help guarantee the right to a fair trial. In civil law countries, I'm guessing common law court cases are probably of even less interest. Now I'm not saying I actually agree with Dumelow's point, I don't but it seems to me if we want to have an argument based on the perceived importance of US cases in law school, we need a detailed country by country analysis not one report of how things work in one country according to one person Nil Einne (talk) 14:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah my personal experiences may be trash, but you can't deny that it wasn't me who exclusively had that experience. If anything we also had a ton of Mexican Supreme Court rulings, and while that there are some U.S. Supreme Court cases being studied none of them are about the relationships between the feds and the state since it is inconsequential to unitary states.
But I guess several cases must be required readings in every law school, such as the aforementioned Arizona ruling. Are we going to ignore this "personal experience"? I don't thing we need a detailed country-by-country comparison, since that'll be like a book's worth of research already, like does the ruling of Somalia's supreme court really that important, assuming it exists? And I'll probably say that several U.S. Supreme Court cases are cited for cases outside the States. –Howard the Duck 15:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Plus I think the fact that the person who was nominated was the first Puerto Rican nominee ever is being overlooked. Yes, PR is a U.S. commonwealth, but it has entered into many treaties which makes it virtually an independent state, something that even present-day England can't claim, although we've seen nominations here in the past where an event in England gets to be reported in Scotland, and it becomes "international". Plus the earlier examples of news article from each of the 6 inhabited continents. If the UK Poet Laurate made it to ITN by that measure, I fail to see how this won't. And for good measure: Argentina (Spanish), Italy, Panama, India, etc. –Howard the Duck 15:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I support and think it ought to be posted for the Puerto Rico aspect alone but consensus does not seem to reflect this so I guess there's no point arguing the ins and outs at this stage. --candlewicke 02:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


Buenos Aires
Is this a candidate? Personally, this isn't really notable, as stuff similar happens everywhere across the globe. SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
It's a candidate, and better than a car-bomb listing in which noone was arrested. Chuck Marean 16:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
What on earth are you talking about? No one has added the car bombing to ITN, nor has anyone even proposed it. It clearly does not qualify Nil Einne (talk) 18:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
WTF is this? How does this even remotely qualify? It isn't even in portal current events. Not to mention the clear violation of no self refs in mentioning the completely unrelated Wikimania issue Nil Einne (talk) 18:27, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


Taliban vs. Pakistani Army

They're killing each other for days already. –Howard the Duck 18:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

May 25

ITN candidates for May 25

Deccan Chargers win 2009 Indian Premier League
  • In cricket, the Deccan Chargers defeat the Bangalore Royal Challengers to win the 2009 Indian Premier League.
    • Good article, significant sporting event (record for overall ticket sales in South Africa). Significant in the fact that it is being held in South Africa despite being Indian Premier League. Most popular domestic Twenty20 cricket in the world. Greater fan following than many of the sports I've seen featured on ITN (eg. grid-iron which is just USA, ice hockey which is pretty much canada and parts of USA) and a once in a year event (unlike a Jenson Button victory which happens every week these days).
Support... Ashishg55 (talk) 16:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
This has been nominated yesterday. --candlewicke 16:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
ya did not see yesterday's nomination. Ashishg55 (talk) 16:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
and get ready to defend the item at same time. i suspect some domestic arguments as usual. Ashishg55 (talk) 16:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Hm, we do indeed include Super Bowl... --Tone 17:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
any idea who nominated the item. I didnt really write that whole essay on why it should go up. Ashishg55 (talk) 19:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
It'll be in the history, won't it? --candlewicke 02:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


North Korea claims to have successfully detonated a nuclear weapon (resulting earthquake pictured) in an underground facility.

Added. I didn't add the picture, as it didn't scale well to the size usually used in the ITN template. Thue | talk 07:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Until this is more than a 'claim' it won't be able to go up. Unfortunately ITN doesn't do conjecture. However, if it is confirmed I think it could be a candidate because I'm sure every major political leader will have an opinion and as such has huge international significance --Daviessimo (talk) 07:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
But it is a fact that North Korea claims to have detonated a nuke, and that is noteworthy enough in itself, whether or not the claim is true. Note that the newsitem is "NK claims", nothing more, nothing less. Thue | talk 08:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Pretty much so. Besides, every major political leader apparently already has an opinion. --Tone 20:12, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


Cyclone Aila

I would like to propose that something about Cyclone Aila is put up on ITN. Jason Rees (talk) 15:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Cyclone Aila kills at least 33 people and leads to the evacuation and isolation of thousands of others in Bangladesh and India. Support. --candlewicke 17:12, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I think it's too violent. Claiming things like that happen is like shaking your fist at the gods. A story about a storm should be more G-rated than that. What is being done to help the survivors? How are they coping well? There is plenty of good news to report, if everyone would look for it. Job wasted time being mad. Finally he decided to get on with his life. --Chuck Marean 00:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
(Posted before the above comment). Does someone want to upload the image—last time I tried to do it, it wasn't good and I still find it confusing.
@Chuck Marean: Do you have a suggestion for alternative wording? SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, can someone help spot a correct death toll? ITN says 33 and the article says 48, neither of which was backed up after a quick search on google news. SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually ITN says "at least 33", so if someone could come up with a few dozen bodies it's fine... --candlewicke 01:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah i agree its fine as it keeps changing as the Cyclone hasnt really dissipated yet and thus is causing more damage. When the headline was submitted it was at 33 but now its at about 120 according to Reliefweb which is a reliable source due to it being backed by the UN/WMO.Jason Rees (talk) 13:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Cyclone Aila kills at least 138 people and leaves more than 150,000 homeless in India and Bangladesh. -- New line per recent information Cyclonebiskit 14:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

May 24

ITN candidates for May 24

Deccan Chargers win 2009 Indian Premier League
  • In cricket, the Deccan Chargers defeat the Bangalore Royal Challengers to win the 2009 Indian Premier League.
    • Good article, significant sporting event (record for overall ticket sales in South Africa). Significant in the fact that it is being held in South Africa despite being Indian Premier League. Most popular domestic Twenty20 cricket in the world. Greater fan following than many of the sports I've seen featured on ITN (eg. grid-iron which is just USA, ice hockey which is pretty much canada and parts of USA) and a once in a year event (unlike a Jenson Button victory which happens every week these days).
People will support this and then they'll oppose this because it has India in the title and that makes it sound domestic even though cricket is not just India's sport. I came up with a proposal about domestic leagues at WT:ITNR - will this help I wonder? --candlewicke 15:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


Castroneves wins Indianapolis 500
Support both, they're at WP:ITNR as well. Do they always come together? --candlewicke 20:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Sometimes, according to the Monaco Grand Prix article. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the mixing of these two highly significant races. Showtime2009 (talk) 22:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
And I thought there'll be a long discussion on the Indy 500 blurb. –Howard the Duck 06:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
There wasn't... --candlewicke 16:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 Rabat stampede at the Mawazine World Music Festival in Morocco
At Mawazine, eleven people are killed and forty people are injured after a wire fence collapses at a football stadium in Rabat, Morocco. --candlewicke 16:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Better could be -- At Mawazine, eleven people are killed and forty people are injured after a wire fence collapses at a football stadium in Rabat, Morocco. (this for including the article...Thx) TouLouse (talk) 16:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
TouLouse, what you did was copy-and-pasting Candlewicke's writing onto your stampede article, and that is inappropriate. You will have to find a way to do it without messing up citations. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


Atlantis


Cannes Film Festival
Yes, that's what I've been wondering. Among Euro film fans/critics Venice is as highly regarded as Cannes and if the latter is included I don't see any reason Venice cannot be. I'm not really familiar with Berlin, so I won't comment on it though. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I will boldly add Venice as snooker and table tennis have now been approved as well. If anyone objects to Venice then it can always be removed but both of us think it worthy of inclusion and I presume neither of us have any conflict of interest with Italy (I don't anyway). I will leave Berlin until a future time. --candlewicke 17:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
off topic note: i dont understand why table tennis was not added long time ago. Its a major sport around the world, especially china. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:49, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I suppose that is because the ITN project has been seriously neglected; People simply didn't pay much attention to improve its variety. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Ya ITN/R is like dead. anyways while at the movies topic. I suggest removing golden globes from the movies and adding Emmy's instead of them. Golden Globes are like a useless preview to Oscars. Atleast with Emmy's you have TV show awards. I know Golden globes gives those out too but ITN still focuses on the movies part of it. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Are the Emmys not national? I wouldn't consider it dead; all the events on it are still suitable? The Golden Globes seem to have been mysteriously added in January with no link to any discussion... --candlewicke 10:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I presume the movie categories for the Globes are for all movies whose language is primarily English, while their TV category are for American TV series. As for the Emmys, there 3 main types: the daytime for American daytime TV, primetime for American primetime TV and the international which should be self-explanatory. The primetime Emmys are the most notable of the 3. There are the Sports Emmys, Regional Emmys, Student Emmys and probably more. –Howard the Duck 11:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
P.S.: The Globes aren't just mysteriously added without any explanation, since admins always add it. –Howard the Duck 14:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
I just meant that I provided a link to where other cases had been discussed. --candlewicke 21:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
well oscars are primarily national too. yes foreign films do show up from time to time but they go through screening process which doesnt even compare to what american movies go through. there are lot of good foreign movies that obviously never show up. Its only something insanly world famous. so i would still call oscars primarily american. but we post it because they are world famous. watched by ppl all over the world. i think emmy's should be added for similar reason. and golden globes im sorry but are just not notable enough outside america. Ashishg55 (talk) 03:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I believe the reasoning for the Oscars is the same as the Grammys, i.e. that the awards have been given to any individual as opposed to Best National and Best International (examples, The BRIT Awards and – seems to have previously been the case – BAFTAs). I've just looked at the early Academy Award for Best Actors – 1920s. Emil Jannings (Swiss-born German) and George Arliss (English) won the first and third of these respectively, indicating they have been historically international. I don't see how the Emmys (with their three separate organisations only one of which seems to be international) add up to this and I don't understand the reasons for adding the Golden Globes. If the Emmys are added we might as well add the Tonys and then it becomes dominated by American-only awards. --candlewicke 03:58, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno, but non-American actors and actresses can still win in the Emmys, provided they appeared on an American TV show. I do agree with the Golden Globes being omitted here, and nobody cared enough for the Tonys there was some sketch where the The Sopranos had higher ratings than the Tony Awards.
The Oscars can be won by any film whose primary language is English. For example, the Harry Potter films were considerably British, and you can argue that the LOTR films were from New Zealand. It depends on how you'll define "what is an American film" in this case. The only "foreign" category in the Oscars is Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film in which all non-English films are lumped into. So, a "Japanese-made" film which is primarily English language gets to be included in the "main" categories, while an "American-made" film which is primarily Spanish language goes into the "foreign language film."
Plus the awards section aren't really that American-dominated, for example there are no American film festivals (Tribeca and Sundance comes into mind). In fact there are only three "American-exclusive" awards at ITNR: Oscars, Grammys and Golden Globes (with Globes being dumped, it'll be reduced into two), while non-American awards excluding the Nobels are 7 (although Americans may/can compete there too). And it seems that there aren't that much American film festivals in the FIAPF fold so I dunno how to deal with that. –Howard the Duck 08:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
P.S.: The claim for "international-ness" by the Globes is maybe due to it being awarded by the Hollywood Foreign Press Association -- ergo, if we were to judge the "international-ness" solely on the "number of countries" represented, the Globes will beat the Emmys.
RE on Tonys. Odd to see television viewing figures being used to judge the significance of awards handed out to theatre... --candlewicke 14:08, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
TV ratings are a measure of everything in the US. They even poked fun at Miss America (or maybe another beauty pageant) for being aired on cable TV noting that pageants are not that significant anymore. NHL was even at the point of being classified as a "second-tier" sport due to its dismal TV ratings (in the U.S., within the 3.0 range or lower (while in Canada it reaches 2/3 of the population... or somewhere there) as compared to the NBA's low teens, baseball's mid-20s, and the Super Bowl is frequently the most-watched TV program of the year). –Howard the Duck 14:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Then maybe the mistake is trying to measure up events in other countries to this standard. --candlewicke 16:16, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno, since only American events are the ones measured to this... "test." –Howard the Duck 17:31, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah. Right. --candlewicke 22:37, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:55, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if this is out of place, but where should a discussion on including theatre awards (Laurence Olivier, Tonys and Pulitzer being the only three that come to mind) in ITN. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:01, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean WP:ITNR? WT:ITNR. --candlewicke 20:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


Mongolia
Sure. Probably results will be known some time by the evening. --Tone 09:08, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj is elected President of Mongolia. [6] Therequiembellishere (talk) 05:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
The election article is too short at the moment. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I have expanded the article and added some new sources - Dumelow (talk) 11:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

May 23

ITN candidates for May 23

Ban Ki-Moon
Can you elaborate? Urges don't seem to make ITN very often... --candlewicke 20:27, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I did this update (here). He is on the island this weekend. He inspected the camp. He visited the country's president. It seems the government won, and the founder of the Tigers died in the fighting, so the rebel army gave up.--Chuck Marean 21:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Chuck Marean, I don't understand. You deleted a load of May 20 entries, and when I queried this you said this was "being civil". So can anyone delete your updates for the same reason? - Pointillist (talk) 22:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
  • The former President of South Korea Roh Moo-hyun commits suicide.
    • I can't believe this... This kind of death is notable enough for ITN, yes? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:11, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
        • Support item goin up (the death of any former head of state from non-natural causes is notable in my opinion), however, the Darwin fossil was removed because it role as a 'missing link' was conjecture. Likewise, stating that this death was 'supposedly' suicide is conjecture. I would remove this bit and just state he died after a fall, until it is confirmed that it was suicide --Daviessimo (talk) 06:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

(merging paragraphs)

  • Former President of South Korea, Roh Moo-hyun, 62, died of head injuries on 23 May 2009 after mountain climbing fall while hiking.; news media have released he died today morning (Korean time).--Caspian blue 02:12, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Support, article is B too. --candlewicke 03:10, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a no-brainer in any death criteria. –Howard the Duck 10:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
It's already up (for some reason there is a separate nom above) and it has been confirmed as suicide - Dumelow (talk) 10:57, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
This was added earlier, though, if it matters. –Howard the Duck 11:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually, my nomination was added earlier, if you check the history. This nomination was originally made on the Future events page, which I didn't notice (they really shouldn't nominate today's items on that page). --BorgQueen (talk) 11:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
That page is supposedly for "scheduled" events only, anyway. –Howard the Duck 11:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Offtopic; Isn't it ironic that TFA is Over the Edge... —Krm500 (Communicate!) 15:06, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Ontopic again; when it was nominated it was repeatedly moved by IPs and the nominator asked me what to do. So it may have been nominated earlier after all. I wrote the top of that page, not intending it to be taken so very literally. :) --candlewicke 17:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


Germany

Germany will hold an indirect election for President, the holder becomes head of state but it is a mainly ceremonial office (as opposed to Chancellors such as Angela Merkel). Should we cover this? Article at German presidential election, 2009 - Dumelow (talk) 16:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

It's a head of the state, I see no reason why not to cover it. --Tone 11:08, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. --bender235 (talk) 12:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
The relevant articles need updates though. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:46, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Horst Köhler was re-elected. I have added basic refs to the election and Kohler articles - Dumelow (talk) 14:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


Madhav Kumar Nepal
Support. Perhaps mention that he was elected by the Interim legislature of Nepal so that people don't mistake it for a direct election? - Dumelow (talk) 19:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


ITNR rugby again

In rugby union, Leinster defeat Leicester Tigers in the 2009 Heineken Cup Final to win their first ever Heineken Cup. Probably still needs an update as it has just happened. Two ITNs for Ireland now as well as Nepal. --candlewicke 17:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I've done the update so it should be ready now. --candlewicke 18:10, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. This is listed as a recurring item and the article has been sufficiently updated - Dumelow (talk) 19:43, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

May 22

ITN candidates for May 22

Already nommed on May 19 (the day of the election), but the counting was incredibly drawn out and various allegations were made of rigging so it has taken a while for the results to come through. The president's article does still need some improvement (I only added the basic election results) - Dumelow (talk) 14:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Could we add to the existing part on Everest that Sir Ranulph Fiennes became the oldest person to climb the mountain? (BBC News) SGGH ping! 15:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
not the oldest man but the oldest Briton. See Mount_Everest#Various_records for Min Bahadur Sherchan (who summitted at age 76) - Dumelow (talk) 18:45, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


Sextuplets

If we can have an old man's epic struggle with an oversized molehill we can surely have a woman's epic labour six times over. First ever on the island of Ireland between the two countries and the previous record was set in 2002, as opposed to last May, and presumably by a different woman too. We had the octuplets earlier and this is both a geographical and political record in one. --candlewicke 21:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Interesting, but too local. SpencerT♦Nominate! 15:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Abuse

I've added loads of ITNworthy material to Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, including international reaction from everywhere including Time, ArabNews and several newspapers from Sydney, Canberra, New York, Manchester and Taipei, not to mention the BBC, CNN, ABC News, Sky News and CBC News. I am still looking for more but please add them if there is coverage wherever you are. I really don't understand why this hasn't been posted as quick as the MPs scandal - it is world dominating stuff now and there is still coverage in tomorrow's newspapers internationally. --candlewicke 02:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

May 21

ITN candidates for May 21

This has recived a lot of press coverage, article has been improved and updated. Blurb may be changed/edited if required. Thank you for considering, Amplitude101 (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 17:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Wow... 19 times in 19 years? --candlewicke 17:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
A lot of people at WP:ERRORS don't like this item. --203.142.184.23 (talk) 00:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
That is factually incorrect (at least at present). An equal lot of people are either neutral or supportive of it as far as I can see. When the above was posted there would have been three opposes (one of which is an IP with seriously low confidence about their say in the matter). That's hardly "a lot"... --candlewicke 13:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
lol even they agreed themselves that their anonymous say in the matter would prove to be useless. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Bomb plot
No, as soon as this goes up they'll start over at WP:ERRORS again... and it would be hard to argue with those who oppose record-breaking mountain climbers that an alleged incident should be on the Main Page. --candlewicke 13:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

May 20

ITN candidates for May 20

Lords' suspensions
BBC World News Front Page is giving this a mere footnote below the headline related to the nomination below... why is this? --candlewicke 19:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know but this seems pretty important if it has not happened for 350 years. I see it as akin to the USA suspending a senator for the first time ever (in fact even bigger since the US Senate is barely 220 years old!). I think that is actually just the BBC News Front page, I thought this was the world news front page (in which the Irish story is itself pushed aside by a bombing in Iraq). Not that it matters anyway (unless we are making ITN into our version of the news as reported by the BBC...) - Dumelow (talk) 19:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
How about: The United Kingdom's House of Lords (Palace of Westminster pictured) suspends two of its peers for misconduct, the first such action since 1642. --Hapsala (talk) 12:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Yep, that wording sounds good to me. We might want to replace the Martin story with this one if it goes up, otherwise it might make ITN look a bit strange with two British politics first in 300 year events. Are there any objections to this story? - Dumelow (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Not really (and please replace the Martin story as two would look unbalanced) but, in relation to my comments below about the child abuse story and its international coverage, both seem to be at least as significant as the other. So I agree to a certain extent but think they are both equal in significance. --candlewicke 18:10, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


Kris Allen wins American Idol final
  • Yes, I know, it's beneath the refined tastes of we cultured intellectuals to include such a plebeian event in the rarefied heights of ITN, but sometimes you've got to give the people what they want. Thirty million viewers can't be wrong. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Support if updated enough. Just the other day 60,000 squeeing fangirls attended the David Cook/David Archuleta concert in our place. That has to count for something. –Howard the Duck 07:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Strong oppose. One tv show in one country, regardless if this is the US. Imagine reactions if we featured a tv show from China or India that would probably have even more viewers. --Tone 08:20, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose if only U.S. citizens and residents are eligible to enter. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
This show had Michael Johns and Ramiele Malubay. Dunno if they count for something. –Howard the Duck 08:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
No, they are US residents at least. I believe there were no auditions for the show in France or Russia. --Tone 08:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Does Puerto Rico count as international? And wait... does that mean Nouvelle Star is more "international" since they had auditions in Montreal? –Howard the Duck 08:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
We're moving in circles here... not too productive. Take the Eurovision song contest as something international and ITN worthy. --Tone 08:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
So we're exclusively basing being international on the number of countries that participate in an event? How about elections, then? They're followed elsewhere? How can you explain the 60,000 squeeing fangirls in a country outside the United States, who probably saved all of their lunch money for a semester to buy tickets? –Howard the Duck 08:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Plus if we are going to exclusively rely on this metric, the NBA Finals would've been ditched and replaced with one, a few or all of the following: FIBA Americas League, Euroleague, FIBA Asia Champions Cup and the FIBA Africa Champions Cup. –Howard the Duck 09:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
About those girls saving lunch money: are we going to use "popularity" as a metric then? If so we should feature Madonna's world tour next time. How about Brangelina's next adoption? The popular culture stuff is already heavily covered on Wikipedia, we don't need to inflate it further. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Pop culture stuff is heavily covered in Wikipedia, but not so on ITN; plus this not just pop culture crap; well actually it is, but this has enough coverage (several non-U.S. channels aired the episode live, the only other time they do that is for sporting events). If we'll have anti-"plebeian" bias, we might as well start be striking off the Eurovision singing contest. –Howard the Duck 10:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
But what makes American Idol more notable than any of the other Idol programmes, or any music based 'reality' tv. If this goes up what is the stop the winner of Pop Idol going up? Eurovision is a different case entirely because it is not about finding a new superstar from the public. Its also got a lot more history, been around longer and has had some of the world's most famous musicians and groups on it like Abba or Cliff Richard --Daviessimo (talk) 10:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I think easy way to dismiss this item is to note that Indian Idol get a LOT more viewers. And if this is included then by default Indian Idol must also be included. Now i have a feeling people really dont want that to go up. So i guess this cant either. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
"what makes American Idol more notable than any of the other Idol programmes?" This gets to be aired on other countries other than the States, although I'd imagine the Irish, British and Australian franchises also get to be aired on those three countries. They like to share amongst themselves. Plus I've heard there were 100 million votes cast, that's like 1/3 of the Indian election total. –Howard the Duck 14:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
To be honest there is almost no proof of how many votes were cast. They can say 200 million for what its worth and no one can dispute. They dont even give proper figures, they just announce the winner. There isnt even a way to prove if that 100 million number is just a publicity stunt. In all what i mean is that its just a "tv show" not a contest. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:45, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
WP doesn't care about the truth. Just what they say. Well it was "nearly" 100 million so that brings the fraction to like 1/4 or less of the Indian election total. –Howard the Duck 18:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
When it comes to television and pop culture nominations I'm surprised nobody mentioned the final episode of ER at the time... especially if this is true: The show ran for 15 seasons, becoming the longest-running medical drama in American primetime television history. It won 22 Emmy Awards, including Outstanding Drama Series (1996), and received 123 Emmy nominations, the most of any television show in history. So it's been going far longer than American Idol and it was actually ending too... but really - just what would they make of this over at WP:ERRORS if it were posted... --candlewicke 14:06, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
WP:ERRORS is not the place for "this item is bad" anyway. And anyway, several shows will end soon that had aired far longer than ER: Guiding Light and The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, for example. –Howard the Duck 10:07, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
UEFA Cup Final
  • The final of the UEFA Cup is set to take place in Istanbul, between Shaktar Donetsk and Werder Bremen. It's not a re-occuring item on ITN because its considered secondary to the Champions League in stature, however, given that football is the most popular sport on the planet and European football is often considered the peak of the pyramid, there is no reason why this shouldn't be considered. The only comparable secondary continental tournament I know of, is the Copa Sudamericana (which is second to the Copa Libertadores in South America) and, as such, putting this up will not set a precedent for loads of other similar events. --Daviessimo (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
We have loads of rugby union blurbs lately so this can balance that. –Howard the Duck 14:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I've never argued against the inclusion of an ITN item before, but I'd like to point out that we have excluded the NCAA football and basketball championships despite their strong popularity in the U.S. on the grounds that only the top competition in a given sport should be recognized. The UEFA Cup being the soccer equivalent of the basketball NIT, I don't think it should go up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
To be honest I don't think the two are comparible. This is a cross-continent international tournament, which this year was between a Ukrainian and a German teams, and was hosted in Turkey. Is the NCAA even professional??? --Daviessimo (talk) 21:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, just to point out football is a far more popular global sport than basketball or American football, so the interest in this is likely to be far greater than NCAA finals --Daviessimo (talk) 21:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
NCAA basketball and football are hugely popular in the U.S. and are a major part of the country's sporting culture (just visit North Carolina during basketball season!). The U.S. is like its own continent, with 300 million people divided into 50 federal entities. There are more Wikipedia readers in the U.S. than in all of the UEFA countries combined. So from my perspective, U.S. sports are equal to European sports, and events that have a similar importance to the sporting culture of each region should be treated similarly. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but that is a plain and simple systematic bias towards the US. Logic dictates that there will be more readers of English wikipedia in the US, because it is the largest English speaking nation, but does that mean stories from China or India who have over 3x as many people each, should be seen as less important. Just to point out also, the total population of all the eligible nations for the UEFA cup is 500 million plus and as such by your logic means the UEFA cup is bigger anyway. My argument is international tournament (30+ eligible nations) + large scale international interest (football is the most popular sport globally) + encyclopaedic and historical significance (Shaktar have become the first Ukrainian team to win the UEFA cup) = ITN worthy item --Daviessimo (talk) 21:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
When did I say that stories from China or India should be considered unimportant? What I said is that European and American events should be considered comparable for the purposes of ITN, and the situation in the U.S. is that we've only been using one championship per team sport. What you're trying to say is that a European sporting event should outrank a U.S. sporting event of similar importance on its side of the ocean. In fact, in my opinion the BCS National Championship and NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship should outrank the UEFA Cup, since they are actual championships and not a secondary tournament for runners up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

If anyone's interested the final score of the 2009 UEFA Cup Final was Shakhtar Donetsk 2-1 Werder Bremen, with Shakhtar becoming the first Ukranian team to win the tournament. Hammer Raccoon (talk) 01:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Your entitled to you opinion, but the BCS national championship and NCAA are not international tournaments (the key word in both is national) and, as such, placing them up ahead of other national championships creates a systematic bias towards the US (particularly when similar events from India of China, which are bigger countries are not put up). Despite what you may believe, I like many others am not overly opposed to the World Series, Superbowl and NBA Final going up, despite the the fact that rules are bent in the first place to get them up (with the exception of one or two unique achievements, all re-occuring items on ITN are international sporting events). To then suggest however, that semi-professional or amateur College/University sporting events in America are more important internationally that a cross-continent football competition borders on an arrogant suggestion that the world should revolve around the US. The real comparison should be with the British Universities and Colleges Sport but as that article states "Apart from a couple of Oxbridge events, British university sport is generally not followed by the general public, so the BUCS Championships tend to have a much lower profile in the British sporting scene than, for example, the NCAA has in the United States, although the organisation is trying to change this". Thus, to return to the point I made earlier, blindly attempting to compare the two in order to oppose this/justify the NCAA going up is unfeasible because the two events are not comparable --Daviessimo (talk) 05:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
You can feel how you wish about the NCAA, but the fact remains that when I suggested putting up the college football and basketball championships, the reason cited for not doing so was that we only put up the top-level championship of team sports competition. You're saying we should make an exception or change the rule for the UEFA Cup. I say that even though UEFA covers a lot of territory, the UEFA Cup is still seen as a secondary, runners-up tournament. No one dreams of their favorite team winning the UEFA Cup. They dream of their favorite team winning the Champions League or, more likely, their national team winning the Euro or the World Cup. On the other hand, and forgive me for using the this analogy again, there are plenty of people in Oklahoma whose biggest dream in life is to see the Oklahoma State Cowboys win the BCS championship. My point is there are plenty of other "second-tier" sports events that mean more to more Wikipedia readers than the UEFA Cup does, and if we are to make exceptions to the rule, we should do so for those events, not the UEFA Cup. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 06:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I can't see why you continue to compare the two - the events are not in any way similar:
UEFA Cup - International (pan-European) - professional - cross Europe interest (30+ nations)
NCAA - Domestic (US Only) - amateur/semi professional - US only interest (1 nation)
You repeated assertion that they are both second tier events is true, but given that one is a second tier international event and one is a second domestic event, it should explain why this is more notable. It is my opinion (and one which others share) that this continual suggestion that the US should be treatly favourably with regards to sport and news in general (i.e. if it popular in the US then that is justification alone, irrespective of what the rest of the world thinks), is a hugely short sighted and arrogant point of view. There may be 300m people in America, but there are 5700m people in the rest of the world --Daviessimo (talk) 06:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
If it counts for something, article view stats for April 2009:
More stats at User:Howard the Duck/Sports article views. One way to ascertain "international-ness" is if we add Google Analytics code to several others so we can find out where the views are coming from. But it is almost certain this won't be approved so we only have this metric for the meantime. –Howard the Duck 07:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I would suspect if you add the views for the two events from the French, German, Spanish... etc etc wikis, you would see a significant shift to the UEFA cup. Article views on English wiki cannot be taken alone in judging interest, when 90% of those interested in the UEFA cup won't speak English as a first language --Daviessimo (talk) 07:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Since there are too many of them, I'd only have the German and the Ukrainian article views, since their teams are the ones competing at the final.
Apologies for my math if they're wrong. –Howard the Duck 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
But what about France, Italy, Russia, Spain, Holland, Turkey, Ukraine...and all the other nations? I'm not suggesting you do it, but English language stats are inherently biased towards English speaking nations. The NCAA has a potential audience of 300m of which at least 250m will be English speakers. The UEFA cup has a potential audience of 500m but only abouy 60m are native English speakers --Daviessimo (talk) 07:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Note that I'm not generalizing, but maybe I am, but I don't think you'll have the same astronomical article views on non-English Wikipedias. I think the German is the 2nd largest Wikipedia but they haven't made a dent. The Spanish article views for the UEFA Cup 2008-09 is 630, while the French is 7179. If you'll add them, it'll be less (23,217) than the total English views (31,020).
Plus you're overestimating the NCAA's reach, 300m of its audience might come from North America (US+Canada), while like less than 10m will be on other countries. Note that I used the basketball event not the American football one that may even had more views in December-January.
I'm in favor of adding this (UEFA Cup) though since this seems to have garnered enough interest. Same with the NBA, NHL and MLB finals series once they're done. And oh, the 2009 NBA Playoffs article seem to be the 2nd leading sports event in article views, and I can attest that not a great majority of those came from the U.S. Probably the same for NHL but probably not for the NFL (really U.S.-centric) and MLB (only U.S. is the big English-speaking country that plays baseball).
Plus I'd say that there are a great deal of non-native English speakers that use the English Wikipedia, myself included. –Howard the Duck 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Note that if you'll factor in the Russian Wikipedia, it'll surpass the English views by a hundred. It's like one of the top viewed articles there. –Howard the Duck 08:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
How many people view the article should not be the criteria. Anyway, the article that appear on the MP get a boost in viewership immediately. If I remember correctly, we had an agreement to put the top level league on ITN, which for Europe is the Champion's league. So unless we agree to have more slots for a continental leagues, I don't think we should put this one on. Anyway, no point about discussing this for future because the competition format will change next year. --Tone 08:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
As Tone said the agreement was to put top level leagues and UEFA is not top level. . NBA is a top level league NCAA is not. Hence NBA was included and NCAA was not. I think similar rule should apply here. And to take into account that there are 30 countries involved... We should really look at Eurozone as a single entity rather than 30 countries. since most things these days that happen in europe happen in all the countries rather than just one. By this logic we will end up filling every single little competition that happens there by stating the fact that it is international. When it comes to Europe we should really also look at whether the sport competition in itself is of top level or not and stop bothering about how international it is. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to have missed all this (or maybe not) but where and when were all the rugby union blurbs? I can only recall one... from 21 March? Two months ago to the very day. We've had baseball, cricket, golf, table tennis and snooker since then... and for football there was a stampede in Africa... and I believe there is another due next week. That comment was very strange. --candlewicke 18:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
2009's scheduled to have at least 4 rugby union ITN blurbs. Soccer before "the snooker rule" had at least 4 too. With relatively small number of countries playing top-notch rugby that is a lot. We had to give soccer more entries to balance things quite a bit. –Howard the Duck 18:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Before this even has a chance of going up, 2009_UEFA_Cup_Final#Match needs to be completely filled in with decently written and referenced prose. SpencerT♦Nominate! 19:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Why? I'm afraid I don't understand... when was this rule introduced? --candlewicke 13:57, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
There is a lot of prose about the background to the match, but none on the match itself. From Wikipedia:In_the_news_section_on_the_Main_Page#Updated_content: "While articles in topics such as sporting events and economics lend themselves to tables of numbers, updates must be at least in part written in prose to qualify for ITN consideration." The update itself would be the match results. SpencerT♦Nominate! 19:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm fairly sure I was replying to Indonesia earlier... how did this get back up here? --candlewicke 02:34, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


Indonesia Crash
  • Doom and gloom I'm afraid, but 97 fatalities, as the BBC is reporting, is too big to be ignored --Daviessimo (talk) 08:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I concur. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm a bit late but I agree too. :D weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 10:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I am later. --candlewicke 19:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse story

It did take ten years... --candlewicke 19:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Ten years in Ireland only... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 19:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah right, didn't see that. I wonder why the BBC reported it then... mind you, ten years in Ireland versus three hundred of them in London... hmmm... --candlewicke 19:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
BBC World News Front Page as well??? Reaction from England, Wales... Amnesty International??? Hmmm... --candlewicke 19:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I'm not going to miss the first question mark thanks :P Well, I suppose so but I still don't believe it's main page worthy :/ weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 19:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
That was my own confusion at believing it to be international then finding out it wasn't then discovering that it was being given international coverage... --candlewicke 19:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
This is the top "World News" story on the AP wire now. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Seems there is some resonance with church abuse stories outside Ireland. CNN covered it here, where it's listed as second most popular story. - Pointillist (talk) 22:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the input. Where I was ignorant of this yesterday (I really picked a bad day to not watch the news), today I come armed with more knowledge. I watched numerous international news bulletins yesterday and was astonished as one by one they all covered this story no further down than their second item. BBC News (on television) had it above their own MPs scandal, Sky News had it above Obama's Guantanamo defeat and CBS Evening News had it above another US death from swine flu. I've seen some of the British newspapers today - it's splashed across the front cover of The Times and The Guardian seems to have a piece on its cover about some other controversy which has arisen possibly from the link I provided above about the reaction from England and Wales. I am biased but how can this not be posted if the MPs scandal was? Both concern a story which you cannot escape from if you are in either country, both have been covered internationally outside their country of origin, but, whereas the MPs scandal does not yet seem to concern any members of the British government, this concerns a government colluding with religious authorities for decades and even when the report was published the victims were stopped from entering the room where the conference was held. There is to be no punishment for those who abused (there's no point waiting for a trial or verdict - this government has a habit of surviving even the most bizarre controversies which would bring down many others) and I see nobody has given any valid reason to oppose this yet. Ironically, I thought when I nominated the MPs scandal that it would meet more opposition than it did, yet it was posted quicker than this. --candlewicke 17:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Interest from UK, US, NZ, AUS, EUROPE and Colombia of all places, according to someone being interviewed about this on The Late Late Show... that's a decent international spread. --candlewicke 22:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


Washington heteropaternal superfecundation in Texas
"rarest type in the world" - source
"0% chance" - tests
"a miracle of science" - experts
"we have never seen this type of result, nor do we expect to see it again" - lab officials

I like the fact that (for a change) this involves two men and two boys but one woman only on this occasion. One of the men is mysteriously anonymous as well... --candlewicke 19:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Interesting, but not ITN material after reading the article. SpencerT♦Nominate! 19:53, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Seems comparable to those octuplets... --candlewicke 13:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

May 19

ITN candidates for May 19

Manmohan Singh
We've featured the 2009 Indian general election recently but I suppose this is a separate topic. Any support? --BorgQueen (talk) 21:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
i support for editing the previous blurb to mention that he became second person to continue the term. a similar level news to obama being african-american in my opinion. nehru continued since he was the first PM after democracy (not that he didnt deserve to anything like that.). Ashishg55 (talk) 02:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


Due to resign

Before someone in the United Kingdom does (this is what ambassador appointments and judge retirements lead to). They will say it is the first time this has happened in three hundred years so let's start the controversy now and get it over with. --candlewicke 11:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Link to Disclosure of expenses of British Members of ParliamentF (talk) 12:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd support, because if the article is correct then it is a pretty major event: "so becoming the first Commons Speaker to be effectively forced out of office for 300 years". But I suppose some will say it's not headline news in Tuvalu or Comoros and thus not internationally noteworthy. --Daviessimo (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I would say it's uncommon enough in any parliament that it would become of international interest; the mechanics of the process, no matter its cause, are noteworthy in themselves. Radagast (talk) 15:01, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

How about: U.K. Commons Speaker Michael Martin (pictured) is to stand down in scandal over expenses, becoming the first Speaker since Sir John Trevor in 1695 to be forced from office. -- Hapsala (talk) 15:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

What a sinister picture of Martin we have! I'd support this for being the first time it's happened in three hundred years and for breaking a long-held convention of not criticising the speaker. I am from the UK however and so I might have been biased by the fact that it seems to be the only new event reported over here today - Dumelow (talk) 15:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
In addition, he is the highest-ranking public figure to fall victim to the expenses scandal. --Hapsala (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm dissatisfied with the current wording (which doesn't match that proposed above) in the home page as it reads as if it was Martin's own expenses that were at issue. The insertion of "MPs'" before expenses would help.--Peter cohen (talk) 18:02, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Lol, have you even read the image file data? Its source is a picture of the joker: WTF? And this is on the main page... Jolly Ω Janner 22:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Malawi election
Apparently it is shaping up to be a two horse race for president between incumbent Bingu wa Mutharika and John Tembo (who is supported by ex-president Bakili Muluzi, who was barred from standing for a third term). Turnout is expected to be very high but results are not expected to be known until Thursday (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 10:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
The opposition has admitted defeat and Bingu wa Mutharika has retained his seat as president. Results are not yet counted but apparently Mutharika has a massive lead - Dumelow (talk) 15:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Mutharika has officially won, I am just off to bed though so I don't have time to update the articles - Dumelow (talk) 23:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
OK I have updated with the BBC as source suggest: "Bingu wa Mutharika wins re-election as President of Malawi" - Dumelow (talk) 11:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
The president's article needs to be updated, it still mentions forthcoming election. Besides, wouldn't be better to say he won the second term, not the re-election? Then, I support. --Tone 12:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Doh, I have corrected Mutharika's article. How about: "Bingu wa Mutharika is elected to a second consecutive term as President of Malawi" - Dumelow (talk) 13:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Added. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Ruth Padel

I tried raising this in the discussion page of ITN but it apparently received very little attention, but the Ruth Padel story is really of little significance outside of Britain, and outside of poetry circles. I suggest that it be removed. I belive the previous justifications for posting this was that it appeared on major global newspapers... but the entire Aung San Suu Kyi story has received no coverage on the main page, although I am willing to bet it has had much more coverage on global newspapers compared to Ruth Padel... Please reconsider. Colipon+(T) 04:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

We will feature Aung San Suu Kyi as soon as the verdict is out. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:35, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, one woman at a time please. Or several at present... --candlewicke 08:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
We've run out of gays, heh. –Howard the Duck 10:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


Darwinius masillae
This is a good one and I believe the image is on front of one of the Irish newspapers tomorrow as well so + one more country giving it coverage. --candlewicke 01:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Found it! ('THIS FOSSIL WILL BE IN ALL TEXTBOOKS FOR NEXT 100 YEARS’ Irish Examiner) --candlewicke 01:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "Scientists discover Darwinius masillae, an extinct, early species of haplorrhine primates" Narayanese (talk) 06:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
    • We have to wait until the merging issue is resolved. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
      • When this is resolved, I support. Maybe mention the "missing link" in the blurb. --Tone 08:01, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
        • Support also. However, if we mention the "missing link" bit, we need to make sure that it is understood that this is not the BIG missing link that ties apes to humans, but rather a link that ties the ape/monkey/human family to historical dinosaur like creatures. --Daviessimo (talk) 08:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
          • Merging issue seems to be resolved. I support this nomination to the main page for what it is worth and agree with the need to be very clear about the missing link aspect as mentioned by Daviessimo. Calaka (talk) 09:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Whoa, I thought for science stories we needed concrete evidence. Look at the blurb: "...may represent an important intermediate form in primate evolution." May represent? I thought we were a little better than that. I suggest either rewording (hopefully) or removal. SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:43, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I support removal too, as I've suggested at WP:ERRORS. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I say take it off as well, it's not as big as it was first made out to be (by the media) - Dumelow (talk) 18:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Wow, this just keeps happening this month... did they declare this a partial hoax or something? --candlewicke 19:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Not a hoax, just less revolutionary than first apparent. It was billed by its promoters as a "missing link" in humanity's evolution akin to the "scientific equivalent of the Holy Grail". In fact it has not been proved to be an ancestor of humans and may just be from another branch of the evolutionary tree. Some good quotes on it here (from NYT, although it is a blog!) - Dumelow (talk) 20:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

May 18

ITN candidates for May 18

Trial of Aung San Suu Kyi

Aung San Suu Kyi is facing further jail time in a "trial {which} is taking place in such haste and secrecy, and on such bizarre charges, that it has already been dismissed as a sham by many governments around the world." --candlewicke 02:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Let's wait for the verdict. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:06, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
As always, yes. Just to have the nomination in early. --candlewicke 13:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I can't say I'm surprised...hasn't this happened before? SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. They try to find a new way to lock her up when the old excuse runs out. --candlewicke 11:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


Raffaele Amato

was detained in a joint operation by Italian and Spanish police in the city of Marbella. Apparently the Camorra's "presence outside Italy" includes the US and UK? "Mr Amato" is no woman though I'm afraid... --candlewicke 17:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I am leaning toward support (provided the article is adequately updated). "The principal, or one of the principal importers of cocaine into Italy" sounds notable enough. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Raffaele Amato, the renowned cocaine importer and leader of the Italian Camorra, is arrested in Marbella, Spain. --candlewicke 12:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
If there are no objections, I'm going to post it soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


Death alert

This is one for debate but anyone with knowledge of the Spanish language will be useful. It concerns the 88 year-old Uruguayan, Mario Benedetti. According to the BBC – I found it on its "Americas" front page:

"Benedetti's work chronicled the life of Uruguay's middle-class and was popular throughout the Spanish-speaking world. He lived in exile from 1973 to 1983 during military rule in Uruguay and was well-known as a supporter of the Cuban government. His readings of his work attracted sell-out crowds in Uruguay."

Uruguay's Culture Minister María Simón spoke of his death to the media. Benedetti was born to Italian parents (lots of choices between Italy and Spain today), whilst his Wikipedia article claims he lived in Buenos Aires, Lima, Havana and Spain (more internationalness). Further down in the BBC report:

"Benedetti wrote more than 80 novels, poems, short stories and essays during a career spanning six decades. His 1960 novel The Truce was translated into 19 languages and made into a film. Spanish singer Joan Manuel Serrat set Benedetti's poems to music, including "The South Also Exists", an anti-US polemic."

Basically the entire article screams "well-known international figure". --candlewicke 00:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

The notability issue asides, do we feature natural deaths these days? --BorgQueen (talk) 01:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
The article is too short in my opinion. To feature natural deaths I believe we have agreed that there are two criteria: importance in the field and a really good article. --Tone 08:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
The article shouldn't be a problem if he's as big as the BBC (and Reuters and others) make him out to be. I can probably take care of that. I just wanted to see what was thought based on what the BBC says. I found it odd that they should make such a big deal of someone's death so international coverage isn't an issue either. We had a dead President from Argentina at the start of last month... I notice the talk page does not confirm this - the archive does though... --candlewicke 08:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
For deaths, I wrote up some guidelines, here: Wikipedia:In_the_news_section_on_the_Main_Page#Deaths. After about 6 votes of approval (a lot on ITN), I added it in (the death criteria at the time were wholly insufficient). SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
So for notability, it meets B based on the "Americas" front page quote above, but the article is WAY too short now...it needs major expansion if it is to go up, not just a paragraph or two like a regular ITN. SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

May 17

ITN candidates for May 17

U.S. Ambassadorship to China
No from me. This is less ITNworthy than the Oxford story... --candlewicke 22:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


1. It's an international story (The Oxford professorship is a British matter. The coverage was also strongly British.) 2. The Google News count for Jon Huntsman is [9] ~2500 versus a count of 250 for Ruth Padel.

Looking at this story objectively, I find it more ITN-worthy. But the Oxford professorship may be more ITN-worthy for you b/c you are more interested in poetry. I think ITN should favor a streamlined decision making process that weighs the strength of accepted factors rather than the interests of editors. Shiplevelone (talk) 22:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

To me, the nomination of a new ambassador is not significant, but in this case, it will mean a new governor of Utah, which makes it a credible candidate. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


1. ITN is not "the news", it is events of some significance which happen to be "in the news".
2. Google hits do not equal ITNs – if that were so the section would be completey different; for instance, the Fritzl case would have easily passed that test I'm sure.
3. Ambassadors are appointed by how many countries to how many countries?
4. Does ITN feature the appointment of all of these or does ITN feature appointments of all officials such as government ministers?
5. Do all offices of ambassadors have their own articles? You seem to have forgotten to include a link to this one...
6. Has the post of US ambassador to China ever been sought by inhabitants of Saint Lucia or India?
7. The coverage was also strongly British. When did France, Ireland, Boston or New York become British?
8. I am not as interested in poetry as you might think; I do however recognise the names of several notable poets and a famous university when I see them.
9. I am extremely puzzled. Please tell me of the international significance of the governor of Utah – that's a state, is it? Has it broken off from the US? But maybe there is more than one Utah... in which case I apologise to all the Utahs for my confusion. --candlewicke 00:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think this "are there other Utahs" standard applied to non-U.S. blurbs. –Howard the Duck 01:26, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean? I really don't understand where this nomination is going... --candlewicke 01:29, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno, but isn't the U.S.-China relations seem... important? It's the two biggest countries, and Obama appointed someone outside his own party. The article is supposed to be at United States Ambassador to China, and several notables had occupied the post, such as a former president... and Spider-Man (LOL). However, I'd rather see Obama's commencement speech at the University of Notre Dame, that seems to be bigger news that this. –Howard the Duck 01:39, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, the link made a big difference. :) The only thing being where do we draw the line? There's an entire template of US ambassadors at the bottom of the page. --candlewicke 01:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
So what does the template has to do with anything? We have a huge navbox for popes and we'd list a new election of theirs. –Howard the Duck 01:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah, but that's my point. One Pope. Lots of US ambassadors. Lots of ambassadors full-stop. --candlewicke 01:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Only one U.S. ambassador to China. I bet there are no articles on Sino-Senegalese relations so... –Howard the Duck 02:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
What is special about this Obama speech? --candlewicke 01:59, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno, it's been all over the news lately. –Howard the Duck 02:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. For me this event is just too US-centric and not notable enough internationally. Offliner (talk) 03:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure there are many factors to determine what appears on ITN. So many factors that they can't be neatly listed so I will stick with a simple two factors that I think capture a lot of previous discussion: 1. Is it international? 2. Is there a lot of coverage?

1. The Oxford professorship fails to be international. 2. There isn't much coverage.

There are plenty of exceptions to this test. (BTW, I assert the coverage was strongly British not that it was all British. You found non-British sources of coverage but they are mixed with many more articles and much more prominent ones from the Times, Independent, Telegraph, etc.) Following our customs, we strongly favor including elections, ground breaking scientific endeavours, archeology, etc. However, I can't think of any customary exception that includes the poetry professorship. If you are creating new precedent, then there should have been more discussion.

The new American ambassador in Beijing is a more ITN-worthy story following the test because it concerns the most important bilateral relationship and received wide coverage.

I don't understand why your points 4, 5, or 6 would challenge the ITN-worthiness of this story so please elaborate.

Shiplevelone (talk) 05:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to but in; even if you manage to persuade your opponents here, I'm not going to put the item on Main Page myself; you will have to ask another admin. Putting this kind of item on MP will cause massive protests at WP:ERRORS, Talk:Main Page, etc, and I don't want to be held responsible for that. If you think a lot of people on Wikipedia are biased against US topics, I would say you are probably right. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

The Oxford story is entirely unrelated and ought not to really be used to decide this. But for what it is worth, that post was sought by candidates from across the world, the university is (I thought) fairly recognisable worldwide, the post has its own article displaying its worthiness (which, until it was pointed out to me, I wasn't aware the US/China post had and I cannot find any other university post which has similar), the post was one of our "first women" series (no firsts have been specified here) and a story on poetry featured earlier this year so this is not a completely unusual case. The discussion is always here but sometimes a nomination is lucky to get one comment of support or oppose, and, as seen in the past few days with Eurovision and Sri Lanka, any admin can post any article they deem suitable (even if, it would seem, the question of updates or neutrality have not been answered). I don't really see any reason why it can't be an ITN, I just wonder where in this category does it stop? All such appointments are international but if there were one between India and China, for example, there would be many more people involved. And what about the US to Iraq? To Iran? To North Korea? These all seem significant too? But why just the US? Why not Russia to other countries? Or Brazil? Or Germany? Where does it stop? --candlewicke 14:16, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Where does it stop? When a lot of people don't know that the position even exists, or if the general public doesn't particularly care about it, then that's where we stop. Perhaps, the measure of these things is by the number of coverage on such respects. Yeah I know "number" but I can't think of anything else. At least it's quantifiable, unlike "look at this position, even Spider-Man was a member!" or "he's so awesome since the award was based on a competition of at least 5 countries" or "this can't be international, since only 1 country plays it". I don't think we'd add a new member of the Académie Française unless he's gay.
For the record, I don't think this one really meets the criteria, but it's a nice test case to see on how people had reacted to this nomination. –Howard the Duck 09:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I think France doesn't necessarily have to have a gay ITN to have an ITN. But you're right in some ways, this is an example of a notable but bland individual obtaining one post. He isn't gay (which is so two weeks ago) and he isn't even a woman (so yesterday)... can we have a Klingon today? --candlewicke 11:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
We could've another girl-powered ITN blurn in Rachel Alexandra if only someone nominated it... –Howard the Duck 12:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Lithuania elections
  • Lithuania goes to the polls today to elect a president. If there is at least 50% turnout and one candidate secures 50% of the vote then there will be a new president today, if not run-offs occur on 7 June. One of the favourites is Dalia Grybauskaite who could become Lithuania's first female president (and who has a free image!). (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 10:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Another first female?!! Woah... --candlewicke 10:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Girl Power. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:08, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Preliminary results show that she appears to have secured a clear majority of the vote but a run-off may be required as turn-out is predicted at 50.42%. Full results later this evening, apparently. Election article is here: Lithuanian presidential election, 2009 - Dumelow (talk) 21:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Source --candlewicke 02:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


Sri Lankan ceasefire
Is it definitely over now? --candlewicke 13:16, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Dispite all the news reports, the army is still mopping up the last remaining Tamil Tiger fighters, so not completely. But the Tigers conceding defeat should be notable enough to make ITN. How about,
Surrounded by the Sri Lanka Army, the last remianing Tamil Tiger rebels concede defeat and offer to lay down their arms, as the 25-year civil war in Sri Lanka draws to a close.[10][11]
An official statement from Sri Lanka's president will come on Tuesday. --snowolfD4 ( talk / @ ) 17:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Tuesday should be fine. --candlewicke 18:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Tuesday? The item has been added by User:DragonflySixtyseven already. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Not when I left the above. But I guess when there is the occasional unpleasant habit of forgetting to adequately update articles before they are posted, there are going to be those who ignore this page as well... --candlewicke 00:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I get it. I am going to revert it... --BorgQueen (talk) 00:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Reverted. The ITN section isn't someone's personal blog and they shouldn't ignore consensus. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
True. What do you make of the Chinese ambassador/governor of Utah nomination above? --candlewicke 01:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, I would say that the nomination is no more global than my Blackwater Worldwide nom. :-D --BorgQueen (talk) 01:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Are we really are going to wait until Tuesday? –Howard the Duck 01:39, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah, but because it was your nom you would have believed it to be global. Tuesday is the official presidential announcement. Don't we go for confirmed facts? Besides, if it's confirmed I imagine it will be a big event on Tuesday. But it is not my personal blog either... --candlewicke 01:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno, it might've been a non-item by that time. It depends on what happens the next few days. We could say the Sri Lankan armed forced are finishing off the Tamil Tigers remnants. –Howard the Duck 01:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
That sounds a bit threatening to neutrality... who can guarantee that is correct? Better to stick with certain facts. --candlewicke 02:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
That is what sources are for. We can say civilians were rescued... or something, –Howard the Duck 02:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
The Sri Lankan Civil War stuff is a touchy subject and we need to be extra careful. You know what happened last time. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:44, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I think you guys have this wrong here. An organization that has been waging a 25 year long war finally says it is laying down its arms, the news is all over the front pages of major news organizations, and we're "waiting until Tuesday"? What happened to presenting a worldwide view? Will we really have waited this long if say the Taliban announced they were surrendering? --snowolfD4 ( talk / @ ) 03:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, we will definitely wait until the Taliban's alleged surrender is officially confirmed. Actually, it sounds too good to be true. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
"Alledged" surrender? Did you take a look at the refs? This is the TOP news story on BBC and Al Jazeera right now. --snowolfD4 ( talk / @ ) 03:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, what "happened last time"? --snowolfD4 ( talk / @ ) 03:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
This. There are more, if you look at the history succeeding it. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:56, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Got it. But there's no real questions here. The refs I provided above are from Reuters, "Sri Lanka's long war reaches climax, Tigers concede" and the AP "Tamil Tigers admit defeat". That pretty much as reliable as it gets. --snowolfD4 ( talk / @ ) 04:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Glad we didn't wait until today to put this up. –Howard the Duck 09:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Why? --candlewicke 11:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Because there were enough reasons for it to be added 2 days ago? –Howard the Duck 11:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

May 16

ITN candidates for May 16

Indian General Election
Support. This is the world's most populous democracy. BrainyBabe (talk) 00:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Support per BrainyBabe.   — C M B J   15:53, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think this needs supports anymore since elections are sacred at ITN. –Howard the Duck 17:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Can someone update the article a bit more? In particular, this section needs some. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


Eurovision
Elena Gheorghe with The Balkan Girls from Romania will win the contest for the first time and will be on ITN. TouLouse (talk) 15:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
We'll see. Obviously whoever wins will be on the Main Page (I'd laugh if it was Norway after the most recent "bias" microscandal at T:MP :D)  GARDEN  19:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
You're right, =)) TouLouse (talk) 21:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Svetlana Loboda from Ukraine will win. :) Felipe ( talk ) 20:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
By doing a little bit of Internet research, it looks like Norway is tipped to win. Jolly Ω Janner 20:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
I think it's best not to speculate - we'll know in around two hours. :D Come on the UK! :D  GARDEN  20:25, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
I just hope someone with a free image will win. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Neither the Rybak or Eurovision article have been properly updated yet - Dumelow (talk) 22:01, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe an image will become available in a few hours... or days... --candlewicke 22:18, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Added by User:JIP anyway. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a decent image. But I think it may not be free. This is one of him with the first ever winner I think. Maybe someone can check? --candlewicke 00:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Neither of them are free I'm afraid. Jolly Ω Janner 00:31, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Damn. However, I may have just solved our image problem... (nominated further down) --candlewicke 00:46, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


Kuwait elections
The only one that'll keep this from being added are the updates to the articles once the result is known. –Howard the Duck 15:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
That doesn't seem to have stopped Eurovision... --candlewicke 00:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
The admin shouldn't have added the Eurovision entry prematurely; his mistake doesn't give us a right to add entries without proper updates. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I know, I was just reminding that these things ought not to be added in future unless they have been properly updated. --candlewicke 02:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Can someone update the article? For the first time in its history, women MPs have been elected. [12] --BorgQueen (talk) 06:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


Ruth Padel

Has just become the first female to take on the role of Oxford Professor of Poetry. I think this is worth a nomination as this is the English language Wikipedia after all and Oxford is fairly recognisable, is it not? Well I'm about to find out. The post was created in 1708 and Padel beat Derek Walcott (a Nobel Laureate) and Arvind Mehrotra from India of all places. The contest to decide the position was highly controversial, according to the source. Padel also comes with an image which would solve our current crisis. --candlewicke 00:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Previous holders of the post include Matthew Arnold, W. H. Auden and Seamus Heaney. --candlewicke 00:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
However, the article needs a little more update. The juicy controversy would make a nice expansion. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Ruth Padel (pictured) is named the first female Oxford Professor of Poetry after a controversial race involving anonymous letters and allegations of sexual assault. --candlewicke 02:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the expansion and I am going to post soon, but I will make the blurb shorter and simpler... --BorgQueen (talk) 03:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Aw, but it's true! ;) --candlewicke 03:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok, one problem. Her website (the alleged source of the image) doesn't have the image now; it might have had it when the image was uploaded here—I don't know. Since the source has become uncertain I can't use the image on Main Page. Perhaps someone could email her and ask her about it. Anyway, for now I am going to post it without any image. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:17, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps the one of her reading at Somerset House could be cropped? --candlewicke 03:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The international connection seems minor and the story didn't earn enough attention compared to previous stories. I don't think this should have been posted. Shiplevelone (talk) 03:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes history and literary value is worth more than you might think. Quote from The Independent:

The eminent professorship has been held by some of the most important literary figures of the last 300 years, including W. H. Auden, Seamus Heaney and Matthew Arnold. Second only in prestige to the Poet Laureacy, the post is worth £6,901 a year.

--candlewicke 04:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Note: I discovered this in The Irish Times. I can't think why they would publish it unless it was in some way important to their readers... --candlewicke 04:13, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Note2: Coverage by Agence France-Presse, The New Yorker, Boston Globe. --candlewicke 04:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
So – international coverage on more than one continent, international relevance (i.e. three candidates from three different continents for the geography enthusiasts, one of whom is from India for the populationists), it is Oxford (which I believe is quite famous), it is of significant literary and historical value (established in 1708 and held by several historic literary figures), it has a dashing quote of prestige from The Independent, and, to crown it all, first female, controversial withdrawal and it had what I thought was a much-needed image. So you can see why I nominated it at any rate. --candlewicke 04:39, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Usually, I'll oppose this, but this is the sort of news that has to be in an encyclopedia. But international importance and/or interest seems suspect. Is this a prominent home page mention in any of those websites mentioned. Perhaps Manchester United F.C. winning the Premier League is bigger news. –Howard the Duck 05:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh please... :( there is no way Manchester United F.C. winning anything (especially their own domestic sports league) is more ITNworthy than this – they weren't even around when this post was established! ITN isn't a newsreel and, as you've said, this is an encyclopedia, so why are events of encyclopedic value involving history or science, even the English language (!), so difficult to have posted on the Main Page? I suppose it must be bigger news but so was the much-maligned MPs expenses scandal... --candlewicke 06:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
IMHO, defining "ITN-worthy" is where it all boils down anyway. If ITN is about "timely news," Manchester United winning the Premier League is the news of the moment, if ITN is into "events an encyclopedia must have", then this item is it. –Howard the Duck 07:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
It'll be interesting on what'll happen if an American equivalent of this crops up... –Howard the Duck 07:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I think it's the same as the Poet Laureate and more to do with the history and prestige of the appointment (not to mention that, between the two, there are only three such appointments scheduled per decade). If any US equivalent had as many easily recognisable names spread over several centuries, had candidates from three continents and was reported in Europe (this having been reported by American media) I would easily support it for its encyclopedic and literary value too. Also worth noting, the title Oxford Professor of Poetry already had its own article and has had this since August 2004. --candlewicke 08:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

May 15

ITN candidates for May 15

Rodrigo Rosenberg

Possibly post the scandal over the murder of Rodrigo Rosenberg in Guatemala? Its apparently a huge scandal in that country allegedly involving many high ranking of the government, including the president. Could be too much hearsay to post on the main page, but its still a big story. Scanlan (talk) 20:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

He'll resign if it's big enough. If he resigns... that will be big enough. --candlewicke 21:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno, but most presidents in presidential democracies hold out to the bitter end, unlike in parliamentary ones. –Howard the Duck 15:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Then we'll fight 'til the bitter end... --candlewicke 00:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno what's that supposed to mean, but presidents in presidential democracies don't always have new elections to fall into when they resign, their government falls, or if they are ousted, that's why they always hold onto their positions no matter what, especially if control of the country is at stake.
I guess my point is it is difficult to determine if a scandal is "big enough" in presidential democracies. Usually in parliamentary democracies, once something really serious crops up, the government falls and new elections are called. –Howard the Duck 07:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

May 14

ITN candidates for May 14

Herschel and Planck laaunch
  • The Herschel Space Observatory and Planck Satellite are both going to be launched today (by a single rocket) at around 1pm (UTC). Herschel is the largest telescope anyone has tried to put into space (1.5 times bigger than Hubbel). I think is definitely notable enough to make ITN. BBC article is here - Dumelow (talk) 09:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Any article for the launch?  GARDEN  10:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The only thing we have about the flight is at Ariane_5#Upcoming_flights which lists all the flights made by the Ariane 5 rocket. The flight number is V-188. There is no article on the individual launch (unlike the US shuttle missions for example) but much of the information is contained within the articles on the observatories - Dumelow (talk) 10:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. Space missions are standard ITNs. --candlewicke 10:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Support, too. --bender235 (talk) 14:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


Congo attack
  • An attack by FDLR forces kills 90 civilians and government troops at Ekingi and "dozens more" at Busurungi in South Kivu, Democratic Republic of Congo. Seems to be notable enough, don't know which article should be updated though - Dumelow (talk) 10:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
New article maybe? --candlewicke 10:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Or perhaps update Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps... --candlewicke 10:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I have added a paragraph to the FDLR article sourced to the BBC and AP but am a bit short of time to add anything more - Dumelow (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

May 13

ITN candidates for May 13

  • Scores of members of UK Parliament, including members of the Cabinet and the Shadow Cabinet are implicated in the ongoing MPs' expenses row. [13] Merrybrit (talk) 20:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Looking a good article at the minute, so I'd support this.  GARDEN  09:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Hmm, the article looks quite decent. After taking a shower, I'm going to post this if no one objects by then. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
        • Needs a better wording. I had no clue what this was about until I checked the article. It should say it is a scandal. --Tone 10:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
          • Posted, calling it a scandal. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:21, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I oppose having this on the Main Page. It's highly hyped by the media and it's not actualy breaking rules set out for MPs. Although it is currently one of the biggest headlines in the UK, it is of absolutely no international significance. This kind of "corruption" happens on a daily basis in many third world countries. Jolly Ω Janner 16:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
    • *cough cough Zimbabwe* Anyway, I find myself agreeing with JJ...I just saw this, but it's more of a weak oppose than anything. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


EU fines Intel
  • How about the European Commission's largest ever fine (1.06 billion euros) is given to Intel for a "a serious and sustained violation of the EU's antitrust rules". Seems like a pretty big story to me - Dumelow (talk) 10:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Looks good. Should mention, that the discovery is announced since it actually happened last year. Any photos maybe? --Tone 20:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
no free ones, I am sure. We need to rely on external links for that. --dab (𒁳) 20:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

May 12

ITN candidates for May 12

OK, I'm from BC, but the election by itself is not notable. I would argue that passing of STV in the referendum would be, since BC would become the only major jurisdiction in the Americas to employ it. Random89 03:58, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I disagree with Random89 on the election's notability. I don't see why every national-level election is noteworthy, even in the smallest and most-obscure country, but an election in a federal entity with lots of powers is taboo, even if the place is English-speaking. So I support the nomination. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Really, the only provincial election we should consider should be Quebec's. Putting this up would tick off a lot of people... --PlasmaTwa2 03:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree, this can't go up. If it does we would be forced to cover all sorts of elections and ITN would be nothing more than a round up of local elections across the world - Dumelow (talk) 10:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
This is not a local election. It is a provincial election for a federal entity with a great deal of powers. In Canada, the provinces handle most of people's day-to-day interactions with the state. The federal government has strictly limited powers. I think it is absurd that we would carry the election results in a place like Andorra, with a population of 70,000, and not British Columbia, with an English-speaking population of 4 million. Orders of magnitude more Wikipedia readers are interested in the latter. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm from canada and i kinda dont agree with putting this on. this isnt about notability anymore its about if we wanna step into domestic elections at all. i would rather not have 50 US elections posted a year. besides ITN already gets enough politics. Ashishg55 (talk) 04:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Ashishg55. Let's not post this. Offliner (talk) 16:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

May 11

ITN candidates for May 11

Fragging in Iraq
  • A U.S. Army soldier kills five fellow soldiers at a counseling center at Camp Liberty in Baghdad, Iraq. [14] According to the AP, fraggings are not quite common these days. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


Tower Bridge
Oppose This is barely notable enough to be included in the Tower Bridge article let alone on ITN. Tomdobb (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Very funny event but No support - Not notable...must deaths to be on ITN :) TouLouse (talk) 16:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 Oslo shooting

A gunman has shot and killed a number of people near to Oslo. Might be notable depending on how many casualties there were (it is unknown at the moment) (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 18:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The BBC have now said that three were killed, not really notable - Dumelow (talk) 10:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


VORTEX projects
Does anyone support this nom?--BorgQueen (talk) 15:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I do. We're running late with the next update already and this one has a well-updated article. --Tone 07:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


Also on May 11 at 2
01 p.m. EDT (what's that in UTC?)
It is 6.01 pm in UTC (as daylight saving is in effect in the Eastern Time Zone). I would support this if the rescue mission is needed, otherwise I don't find it that compelling - Dumelow (talk) 11:04, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't mean to offend but space missions are standard ITNs (why aren't they listed at WP:ITNR?) and this one has to be one of the most exciting ones in ages. Repairing Hubble would be big enough on its own. But other points appreciated plus someone please confirm if I can add spaceflights to the recurring items list. --candlewicke 15:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I was similarly under the impression that space missions were considered standard for ITN.   — C M B J   15:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I am going to add space missions to WP:ITNR now since it is a very obvious omission. I don't see any harm in adding it and removing it again later if someone gives a logical objection. --candlewicke 01:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
ya i agree hubble mission is a lot more interesting than all the ISS ones we post. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

May 10

ITN candidates for May 10

Hundreds of civilians killed by Sri Lankan army shelling

  • At least 378 civilians are killed and another 1,122 are injured as the Sri Lankan Army shells the Safe Zone in the north-east of Sri Lanka. Obi2canibe (talk) 16:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Definite support, this might be one of the deadliest recent incidents in that area in relation with the on-going long conflict, probably the deadliest (not sure on that one). Here's a second reference/article. --JForget 00:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
        • Wait, the death toll hasn't been verified, and it remains a claim made by a health official. Perhaps we should wait until it is confirmed. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
          • The international media and aid agencies are banned from the Safe Zone so it is impossible to obtain independent verification of the claims. I don't think there's any doubt that hundreds of people have died, the only question is who is responsible. Based on what has happened in previous such incidents in the Sri Lankan Civil War I don't think we will ever find out who was responsible. However, given that most of the world's leading media organisations (CNN, New York Times, Al Jazeera, Boston Globe, Sydney Morning Herald, Voice of America, Washington Times) have reported this item the claims must have some credibility. According to Channel 4 News previous claims by the health official have proven to be accurate. The death toll has now increased to at least 430 (The Times, BBC, The Guardian) and could rise to 1,000+. Given the magnitude of the death toll and that the UN has called the situation a bloodbath, I think this item ought to be in In The News. Obi2canibe (talk) 19:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 IIHF World Championship

  • Russia wins the 2009 IIHF World Championship for the second year in the row, defeating Canada in the final. --PlasmaTwa2 21:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Strong support for this. Perhaps the score should also be mentioned: "Russia wins the 2009 IIHF World Championship for the second year in the row, defeating Canada 2-1 in the final." Here's a source: [17]. Offliner (talk) 22:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Support with the proviso that we still run the Stanley Cup winner when that happens. Also, we should spell out International Ice Hockey Federation so people know what sport we're talking about. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
        • Why not prefix it with "In ice hockey" instead? Giving the meaning of IIHF would've been very long. –Howard the Duck 00:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
          • How about "Russia become world champions in ice hockey after defeating Canada 2-1 in the 2009 IIHF World Championship final" ? Offliner (talk) 00:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
          • Or: Russia wins the 2009 Ice Hockey World Championship for the second year in the row, defeating Canada 2-1 in the final. Offliner (talk) 00:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
            • The first one is better. –Howard the Duck 01:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
            • Wait, there is no prose about the final. This better have prose first before it gets to be added. –Howard the Duck 01:09, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
              • Why should there be prose about the final? All the relevant stats have been updated and the article is up to date. Offliner (talk) 02:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                • That's a requirement. –Howard the Duck 02:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                  • Which "requirement"? Offliner (talk) 02:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                    • You know, instead of arguing with me, you could've just added prose. –Howard the Duck 02:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                      • The guideline you cited says nothing about prose, and the article already had more than 5 updated sentences. Still, I provided the insisted prose description of the final. Offliner (talk) 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                        • Last sentence, second paragraph: "While articles in topics such as sporting events and economics lend themselves to tables of numbers, updates must be at least in part written in prose to qualify for ITN consideration." An admin would've never added this anyway without the prose. –Howard the Duck 03:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                          • Ok, I misread. But do you think there's enough prose now? Offliner (talk) 03:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
                            • An admin posted it so it should've been OK. –Howard the Duck 10:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

May 9

ITN candidates for May 9

18,000 years and melting...
Support, provided Chacaltaya is properly updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:24, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


Jacob Zuma
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


Civil war in Chad (2005–present)
Civil war in Chad (2005–present)#May 2009 (or Civil war in Chad (2005–present)#United Nations) makes no mention of this recent UNSC condemnation. --PFHLai (talk) 12:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants
  • More than 160 governments agreed today to add nine more chemicals, used in agriculture, electronics and chemical industry, to the global banned list. [18] Is anyone interested in updating the article? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


Indonesian legislative election, 2009
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:47, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

May 8

ITN candidates for May 8

Jacob Zuma
Is the {{BLPrefimprove}} atop the Jacob Zuma article an issue? It was tagged a few hours ago. --PFHLai (talk) 13:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
N.B. He was sworn in on 5/9. --Hapsala (talk) 13:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


Aung San Suu Kyi

Health alert. Bizarre goings-on there in recent days. --candlewicke 03:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


Record lottery jackpot
  • OK I know this is extreme, but the BBC are reporting that the Euromillions has rolled over for a sixth week meaning the jackpot now stands at over £100m. Now my reason for nominating is the article states that if there was a single winner it would be the largest for any lottery in history. There's a chance it may not happen (i.e. there may be more than one winner), but if it were to occur what do people think? The obvious place for the update would be the Euromillions article --Daviessimo (talk) 19:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I quite like this. I mean the biggest lottery win anywhere ever has got to be pretty big news. Though of course it is not guaranteed that there will only be one winner, but if there is I think it should go up - Dumelow (talk) 20:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I suppose it would have to beat Dolores McNamara but support if it becomes the biggest ever. --candlewicke 21:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps this would serve as a good excuse to source and update Lottery jackpot records as well. --candlewicke 21:11, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Reports suggest there is a single ticket winner [20] --Daviessimo (talk) 22:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
It may yet be a syndicate in which case we've wasted our time. I would wait. I'm sure there'll be plenty of fanfare when it is confirmed. --candlewicke 01:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Any confirmation yet? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Theres been plenty bigger in the US with Powerball and Megamillions. -CWY2190(talkcontributions) 17:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
When you factor in the US tax deduction (Euromillions is tax free) and the exchange rate, this is bigger - probably approaching $150-160 million. According to the lottery record article, individual winners from US have averaged between $110-130 million as top prize. However, as Candlewicke has noted we need confirmation on who the ticket holder is before the article can be updated and this can go up. --Daviessimo (talk) 20:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, "we might never find out who has won it." [21] On the bright side, the jackpot will build up even more if it is unclaimed this time. Am I right? (Not familiar with the lottery stuff) --BorgQueen (talk) 04:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
It is a single person! [22] --BorgQueen (talk) 13:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Could someone direct me to the update in the article...I'm not seeing it; if it's there, I think its less than our paragraph minimum. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Found it, but the update looks to be pushing the minimum a bit, but it barely makes it, I think. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Blackwater exits Baghdad
Perhaps we could also mention that Triple Canopy, Inc. is taking over. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Not my choice of ITN. It's a private company, after all. --Tone 07:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Not sure either. --candlewicke 14:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Blackwater has been involved in a number of high-profile international controversies, and its founder had to attend a U.S. congressional hearing for its conduct in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The post-war Iraqi government made numerous attempts to get rid of it and it is involved in the counter-narcotics program in Afghanistan. It acquired such a notoriety in Iraq that it had to change the name. I would say it is reasonable to conclude that this private company is quite exceptional. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
If you say so. I trust if you think it is suitable and are prepared to argue this case that it must be good enough. --candlewicke 19:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. By the way, I noticed that it has been featured on ITN back in 2007. Interesting, it must have been about one of its controversies in Iraq. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Wait...is it ending operations just in Baghdad, or all of Iraq? SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
According to the AP article: "Blackwater guards will remain protecting American diplomats in the predominantly Shiite cities of Hillah, Najaf and Karbala, all south of Baghdad, until Aug. 4" I suppose that the fact they are leaving Baghdad is significant since it is the very place of the 2007 shooting. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
And, officially the contract has been taken over by Triple Canopy, Inc. yesterday. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
According to our own article: "On April 1, 2009, the U.S. State Department announced that Triple Canopy, Inc. would replace Xe/Blackwater as the department's security contractor in Iraq.[170] The contract, for $977 million, was awarded on March 31, 2009 and took effect on May 7, 2009." --BorgQueen (talk) 21:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Just out of interest what is it that makes this so significant. We didn't put it up a couple of weeks ago when the British Armed Forces ceased operations in the country. As one of the two primary 'invading' forces surely that was bigger--Daviessimo (talk) 22:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Have the British Armed Forces commited a public massacre of civilians in Iraq? (Sorry, perhaps they might have but I just woke up, my brain is not working properly, so I am asking you.) --BorgQueen (talk) 02:47, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, the Blackwater story is no where near notable enough, get it off the main page. Nick carson (talk) 04:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Some rationale please? It is not that I am willing to fight over this to my last breath—I will be happy to agree to removal if your argument makes sense, but it might take a bit more than simply giving an order. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Well my rationale will be then in 50 or 100 years time people will not talk about the Blackwater invasion of Iraq, only the joint 'US/UK+Several other countries to a much smaller degree' invasion. There are hundreds of private security firms in operation in the country. When the news is on we here about X no of British/American/Canadian soldiers killed/injured but never a X no of Blackwater soldiers. To that degree I can't see the significance --Daviessimo (talk) 08:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I think people will talk about Blackwater Baghdad shootings, which eventually prompted the U.S. House of Representatives to pass a bill that makes all private contractors working in Iraq and other combat zones subject to prosecution by U.S. courts, for a long time. The news outlets certainly have been telling us a lot about the company's wrongdoings in the post-war Iraq, and the number of civilians they killed there. While there may be hundreds of private security firms in operation there, Xe Worldwide is the largest of the U.S. government's private security contractors. And just curious: did you read the article? I am not being sarcastic; I am just beginning to wonder why my understanding of the topic's notability is so different from those of the regular/semi-regular contributors here, which is not that common. In case I am mistaken or biased on this occasion, please feel free to enlighten me. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I also find this item quaint. Sure Blackwater has garnered notoriety, and I`m sure many left-wing newspapers will consider this a front page topic, however, they are not leaving Iraq per se, just Baghdad, so this item should not have prevailed in competition with other global news stories. Also, the headline masquerades the issue which BorgQueen argues about this company being particularly notorious and also the fact that it is being superceded by another private security contractor. I say we take this one out again. __meco (talk) 08:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Very well. I am uploading the typhoon image to replace the current one. The file is big so it may take a while. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
The item has been replaced. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:13, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


The arrest of Mas Selamat bin Kastari
Mas Selamat's escape in 2008 launched the largest manhunt ever in Singapore's history, and the news involves three countries: Singapore, Malaysia (where he was captured) and Indonesia. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Possible for consideration, the update is at the moment too short. --Tone 07:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Assuming that really dramatic description is true, I quite like it. --candlewicke 14:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, neither the Singapore nor the Malaysian government is releasing much detail on the arrest—they kept it a secret for more than a month, after all— so probably the relevant section won't be expanded enough. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it not possible to create a few more sentences from the sources? --candlewicke 19:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, I will try... --BorgQueen (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Expanded a bit. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Expanded a bit more, and I suppose I may post it now. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:29, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. Can someone please spam my talk for the nomination and update? Thanks. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 Guinea mine collapse

I know Guinea is still on the main page following its diplomatic manoeuvring but this cave-in is known to have killed thirteen and badly injured five, plus ten remain missing. Is this notable enough for ITN? - Dumelow (talk) 10:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. Never too much Guinea. Let's have Guinea-Bissau and Papua New Guinea as well. :) I wonder what the WT:MP would be like after that... --candlewicke 14:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Article first... --Tone 14:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Naturally. Me again is it? (sighs). --candlewicke 15:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Extremely difficult to source. Here is what the Khaleej Times says about it and that's all I've found so far apart from the BBC article. --candlewicke 01:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

May 7

ITN candidates for May 7

Typhoon Chan-hom (2009)
Caused at least 27 deaths and 11 landslides. Also unique for a west-east route instead of the usual east-west. –Howard the Duck 20:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. I can recall other numerous Typhoons that have gone up. Do you have a suggested wording? SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Almost missed this one now that we've reopened the floodgates. :) --candlewicke 01:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb:
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


Manny Ramirez suspended for drug use
Baseball star Manny Ramirez is suspended 50 days for failing a drug test.
Number-three on AP top stories on Yahoo. Manny is one of baseball's biggest stars, and this revelation further damages baseball's reputation. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I didn't even know baseball's reputation was in any way damaged? I just don't recall Olympic-level drugs suspensions being posted and I'm sure association football throws up such situations regularly enough as well. Fifty days seems an awfully small suspension... I thought they took drugs very seriously... --candlewicke 22:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
People argue about posting the finals, i highly doubt anyone will like an event for single person and a failed drug test at that lol. sorry but its just not worthy enough. Ashishg55 (talk) 00:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
You can argue for it or against it, but it's clearly not something to laugh about. This was front page news across North America. -- 99.236.2.244 (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't look like this one will make it, but I just wanted to note that it's 50 games not 50 days. This is equivalent to about 1/3 of the season. Tomdobb (talk) 12:21, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Oops. :( Mwalcoff messed up the nomination with four letters. I'm afraid I know nothing of baseball to be able to comment. But at least the suspension doesn't look as small any more. --candlewicke 14:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Nah, if he was suspended due to the feds investigating this might have a shot. –Howard the Duck 14:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Aung San Suu Kyi

An American man is arrested after swimming across a lake to enter her house and "staying there", accompanied by an assortment of unusual items such as a camera and a pair of pliers. This is the first time there have been reports of anyone successfully visiting her in nineteen years. Now the police are involved and have entered the compound, coinciding with her supposed expected release at the end of May (which now must surely be thrown into doubt? Hmmm...) Her high and historic profile might merit this unusual occurrence an inclusion on ITN? --candlewicke 15:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion, this seems pretty weak. Suspicious, but still weak. SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I will put this in future events as her release must surely be worth a nomination. --candlewicke 23:26, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about that yet...she always seems to be resentenced or something, and manages to stay under house arrest for very long periods of time, so that might be clogging up space in future events; it's better just to wait and see without posting it there. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Oops. Already done it. The source says the end of May so we'll leave it until then as Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia. --candlewicke 00:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

May 6

ITN candidates for May 6

Guinea
  • Guinea's time has come. "Almost all of Guinea's embassies abroad will be affected by the reshuffle, including those in Paris, London, Moscow, Cairo and Pretoria, South Africa. The Guinean representatives to the European Union and African Union were also included." --candlewicke 15:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The article to be updated is Foreign relations of Guinea. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I have updated it with the basic info - Dumelow (talk) 11:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Not so fast...the update is a bit short and only uses 1 reference. SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:23, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm searching right now for possible updates, but I haven't found any other sources except for the given one here. SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, glad to see you are back. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Me too. :) Welcome back. It was nice to get up this morning and find someone else had done Guinea. --candlewicke 17:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

(<--) Nevermind, I found some now. SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


Brazil II
Return of the Mud
  • My opinion states that Brazil deserves to be back up there. If the swine flu can return and the Victorian bushfires can stay there when their toll is increasing... an agreement will prompt me to update it? --candlewicke 15:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The death toll in the Brazilian floods and mudslides reaches nineteen, with 186,000 left homeless, as President, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (pictured), inspects the disaster area. --candlewicke 21:54, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
If the swine flu can return: It didn't. The bolded article is a new one. I am not sure this one should be on MP again so soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Madagascar went up three times as the situation there worsened (twice within eight days in fact). The bushfires stayed as their toll increased. I've updated the article. That is big increase in homeless people (it has trebled within about forty-eight hours from the previous figure of a mere 62,600) and the President is now firmly involved. Please show me which policy you're consulting. --candlewicke 00:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Consulting policies are generally pointless for making this type of decision since WP:IAR dictates consensus comes first. I would wait to hear what Tone or Spencer thinks. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately they're extremely inactive at the moment and on the few occasions when they edit they don't come to ITN. I would think they would trust us to continue and to keep things moving. If they arrive to complain we can ask them where they've been. And if they want to condemn and banish both of us then they're giving themselves a large workload considering the effort we're putting in between us. I've invited people to come here on the talk page and everywhere I go I'm leaving my signature with a link here but nobody comes. We have to use our initiative. --candlewicke 01:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Meanwhile I have completed the table tennis nomination below. --candlewicke 01:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I have to go out now; let's continue this conversation several hours later. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps a compromise-it goes back up but in the middle? I think going back up is okay, but not stickied at the top. But for now, it is the pictured item, and it should be as high as possible. I'm very sorry at my inactivity recently, but my ****** work is limiting any free time I may have had previously. Anyway, I don't see why it can't go up again. SpencerT♦Nominate! 11:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

May 5

ITN candidates for May 5

Georgia mutiny

How about this story? How often do troops mutiny? It is apparently linked to a coup and an assassination attempt on the president - Dumelow (talk) 10:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, we have 2009 Georgian troop mutiny as well as Georgia military mutiny, 2009. It is best if we merge them. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 World Table Tennis Championships

Wang Liqin wins the men's singles gold at the 2009 World Table Tennis Championships.

Seems to be a popular sport around the world. Is the men's section the most important? It would usually be men and women in tennis of the tableless variety... --candlewicke 15:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

How about then: Players from the PRC sweep all events at the 2009 World Table Tennis Championships? Shiplevelone (talk) 03:01, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Didn't they do very well in the the men's competition, beating Japan, South Korea, Denmark, Austria, France, Slovakia, Italy, Romania, Russia, Czech Republic, Australia, Nigeria, Brazil, Argentina, Slovenia, Portugal, Greece, Russia, Poland, Belarus, Croatia, Serbia, Sweden, Noway, Chinese Taipei, Mexico, Ukraine, Egypt, England, Latvia, Belgium, Iceland, Spain, Singapore, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Scotland, Bulgaria, and, to seal it (no pun on other ITN intended), India! ;) --candlewicke 18:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The 2009 World Table Tennis Championships conclude, with China's Wang Hao and Zhang Yining winning the men's singles and women's singles titles respectively. Both players have decent images. Poster's choice. --candlewicke 01:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I think this matches the snooker precedent: A global tournament that is dominated by one region of the world. We probably should hammer out more standardized policy. Shiplevelone (talk) 01:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Germany has a renowned table-tennis player ranked fourth in the world. Besides who dominates American football? And the Six Nations Championship could be said to be dominated by one region as well. --candlewicke 01:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


2009 swine flu outbreak action against pigs

We have the article now. Any nice blurb? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

This will not please some. Anyway – Governments in Egypt and Iraq respond to the recent swine flu outbreak by officially exterminating all domestic pigs and euthanising three wild boars in Baghdad Zoo respectively. --candlewicke 19:10, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Please replace extermination with slaughter because the pigs meat would still be eatable and the government will check the meat then give it back to the owner with monetary compensation. --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 21:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I would if I could but I have passed on your message to the ITN Queen. Please go to WP:ERRORS in future. --candlewicke 22:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


The European Parliament bans imports of seal products
I suppose the article to be updated is Seal hunting. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought you said we were creating too many ITNs? --candlewicke 21:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I should think most of one continent versus most of another would be notable, yes. --candlewicke 22:03, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Done. The European Parliament votes to ban imports of seal products. --candlewicke 01:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

May 4

ITN candidates for May 4

The World Snooker Championship 2009 is scheduled to end. This is one I'm curious about as the sport appears to have no representation at WP:ITNR. The "world" in the title stood out for me and it appears there are indeed competitors from no less than three continents, with countries represented including England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (Europe – the equivalent of most of the Six Nations in rugby union), Hong Kong and China (Asia – the latter ought to go some way to pleasing those who like large populations) and Australia. --candlewicke 23:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Thailand also seems to be in there somewhere. So this would probably be pretty big across Asia. Oh and a woman, Michaela Tabb, will be refereeing the final for the first time! She puts it down to her standard of refereeing. :) --candlewicke 23:55, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
It's evidently extremely popular in China if this is to be believed. And being reported on by the Irish Independent too (considering the country has no representative in the tournament). --candlewicke 14:43, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I am in favour of this (although I am biased, snooker being quite popular here in the UK) but I didn't realise it was that popular elsewhere. If we have the Six Nations I don't see any reason why we can't have this (unless it's that anti-indoor sports bias again!)- Dumelow (talk) 17:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Your point about indoor sports seems valid. This seems to be one of the top indoor championships in its geographical coverage and it does have more reach than continental championships such as those listed under association football and rugby union and (if I'm not mistaken, being slightly less clued-in on these events) the World Series and the NBA Finals at WP:ITNR. I don't understand why it would be rejected but perhaps it has never been nominated before. --candlewicke 21:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
So does that mean that the World 9-Ball Championship also gets to be added at ITN/R? I'd reckon 9-ball to be way more popular than snooker. Tabb was endeared by Filipino fans the 9-ball world championship last held in 2007, and she refereed the final between a Filipino and an Englishman. 17 countries in the last 32 were in contention as supposed to snooker's... 6. And I counted separately the home nations on both accounts. –Howard the Duck 11:45, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
China-only Google search results: World Snooker Championship ~4,390 vs. NBA Playoffs ~37,800 vs. baseball's "World Series" ~26,700. –Howard the Duck 12:22, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
See also: Wikipedia talk:Recurring items on ITN#Snooker. –Howard the Duck 11:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Bearing in mind that Google is only one source I'm starting to grow increasingly frustrated at your use of it to determine a sport's popularity. After all it may be a sign that the sport is so popular that people actually play it or watch it on television and do not sit idly by on computers fiddling around with Google! We'll never have anything popular amongst the computer illiterate elements of society on the Main Page at that rate... why shouldn't the sport you speak of be mentioned? I don't know... I don't object to pool. I have no problems with Filipinos or Englishmen. The point about Tabb (who I have never heard of before) is that the source states this is a first for her and a first for the sport at international level. We can have pool when it comes up again. Just because a sport you are fond of was rejected or not discussed properly at the appropriate time doesn't mean that we should rule out forever everything else which is similar. This nomination is for snooker so I'll concentrate my support on it for now. Let's not have another one of these conversations which are riddled with inaccuracies and determined by Google hits. --candlewicke 02:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I think Tabb has had a few championship matches under her belt (mostly in other cue sports), and China wants to host every sporting event anyway. –Howard the Duck 04:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
As for what the Chinese are watching... –Howard the Duck 05:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
"Mostly in other cue sports" – This is not about other sports. The source you've provided just informed me that a grand total of "four local players Wang Zhizhi, Mengke Bateer, Yao Ming and Yi Jianlian" are responsible for a ratings boost in the NBA in China. "The absence of these players can slash the NBA's TV ratings in China". The NBA "now has about 100 staff in China" – out of a total Chinese population of how many hundred is that again? Please concentrate on this sport and stop trying to bring other sports that don't even add up into the equation. Do you support any non-American sports? --candlewicke 13:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
See cue sports or sports that uses a cue ball or the white ball that gets to be punished for being white. Tabb is a referee of several other cue sports such as 9-ball. –Howard the Duck 14:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
As for me supporting non-American sports, I supported the inclusion of the Indian Premier League, the FA Cup (iff the two competing teams at the final finished at the top 2 of the Premier League just like what happened when Chelsea and ManUtd met some years ago), the AFC Asian Cup and other one-time sporting events that are reported widely. Am I also open on adding the Premier League at WP:ITNR as the world's most watched "domestic" league. –Howard the Duck 14:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
OK, well let's start by adding the snooker then. Don't understand why the Asian Cup is left out... don't know why the top two should affect the FA Cup. It's an entirely separate competition which, as far as I gather, not many of those teams used to take very seriously. --candlewicke 13:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Let's try snooker as a test case. But I'd say the FA Cup is the most-seriously competitive national cup competition in the world, unlike other countries' cups which have dismal attendances.
Note: I'd try putting the 2007 pool championship at Portal:Current events/Sports but it was almost removed since it was not a... "sport." I guess the final rounds of the snooker championships must be added there first, and that must not be hard. –Howard the Duck 14:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I've nothing against the FA Cup; I just don't understand why you would include the top two only? I'd go the whole way or none at all. It does produce a lot of shocks to my knowledge and it is the oldest association football cup competition in the world so it does have a bit more relevance than the DFB-Pokal. Removing because it's not a sport? Couldn't that just be considered as vandalism? With all the complaints about the boxing, I imagine there will be complaints when this is posted but we've never give into complaints, have we? We can't keep every reader happy... --candlewicke 17:20, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
The FA Cup is too minor of an event to be included every year. It's like the Leinster Rugby example above, it must have sufficient "hype" first. And it wasn't vandalism since there was some discussion before it was eventually retained. –Howard the Duck 01:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Well I don't know how much more hype the rugby needed but that's besides the point at any rate. So it should be easy to do the same for snooker, do you think? --candlewicke 03:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Well as an Englishman I can tell you that the FA cup is not big enough to go up on ITN. Whilst fans love it and small teams see it as a chance to 'giant kill', the bigger teams do not give it the respect it deserves (see for example Man Utd being knocked out in this seasons semi final after playing a weakened team against Everton for case in point). This whole sporting debate I do find a little odd. The reason sports like horse racing or boxing do not normally go up is because it is very hard to select the important issues. By having the Hatton-Pacqiao fight someone can now norminate a fight were the super heavyweight or feather wight belt is up for grabs and justify in the logic that as an equal title (i.e. world champion) it is biased for it not to go up. Snooker is a different case because there is only one 'world championship' as a such does not set a precedent for thousands of other events. Likewise the Rugby Union record below is a viable candidate because it is a world record and as such would have to be beaten before it were to appear again. Howard I know you may be passionate but attempting to justify things on the basis of page views, audience numbers, population of countries etc are just not viable arguments because its creates a systematic bias towards sports in larger countries, where English is a primary spoken language and were there is enough wealth for large number of the population to be able to sit down and watch tele. --Daviessimo (talk) 08:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
John Higgins (pictured with the trophy following his last win in 2007) beats Shaun Murphy in the final of the 2009 World Snooker Championship, becoming the oldest winner of the tournament since 1985 and the sixth to win three or more titles in modern times. --candlewicke 23:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Details of the final have already been published in The Sydney Morning Herald on the other side of the world... --candlewicke 23:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


Severe Tropical Storm Typhoon Kujira
The trouble being that repeated points about how many millions of people the Philippines has to spare over other countries makes a death toll of nine look a tad small. :) Six were killed in an avalanche in the Austrian Alps as well. :( I imagine the Austrian population will feel the devastation more (smaller numbers). --candlewicke 03:55, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Update Kujira is no longer a "severe tropical storm" but is now a full-fledged typhoon (first for the 2009 season) that has cost at least 23 deaths. –Howard the Duck 10:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm afraid we have too many ITNs... --candlewicke 21:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Category 4 storm now... –Howard the Duck 10:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Prime Minister of Nepal resigns

Prime Minister of Nepal Prachanda resigns. [26] --BorgQueen (talk) 12:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Believing that no one will object, I am going to post soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


Iran


Turkish wedding attack
Support. It appears to be more than just a killing spree. Complex political feuds are involved here. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Support, 45 people is big. TodorBozhinov 14:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
The article needs to be expanded a bit more though. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Done. Gunmen kill 44 wedding guests at a party in Turkey's Mardin Province. --candlewicke 19:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

May 3

ITN candidates for May 3

Leinster v. Munster

A world record in rugby union. International players on the day from Tonga, New Zealand, Argentina... a Welsh referee... the winning manager an Australian... at least three continents, all hemispheres... not to mention a completely unexpected shock result... "few gave Leinster a chance of winning". --candlewicke 07:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Leinster defeat Munster by 25–6 in their Heineken Cup semi-final in front of a world record club rugby union attendance of 82,208 at Croke Park in Dublin, Ireland. --candlewicke 10:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
As a rule, we totally exclude sporting competitions excluding the final except for the World Cup (and the New England Patriots' 16-0 NFL regular season, which was a very bad idea) unless something else remarkable happened. The question is: was the record broken by a big deal? Like it broke the old record by 50,000 persons. –Howard the Duck 12:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually yes. Take a look at the attendances in some of the other matches at the bottom of this article. 35,000 would probably be quite high for club rugby union. Leinster's last match barely made 10,000... Munster, the side they beat, the reigning champions and one of the top (if not the top) club sides, play their games at Thomond Park (capacity 26,500). When they were drawn with Leinster they moved the game to Croke Park, anticipating its popularity which is evident since it sold out... I'm no expert on the records but I would know this is a massive attendance, considering it wasn't even a final... and the venue for the final has a maximum capacity of about 20,000 less and that's if all the tickets sold out... you'll notice that all the British sources (newspapers, BBC, etc) make a big deal out of placing mention of the world record near the top of their reports – nothing for them to be bragging about considering it wasn't played there and neither team was from there... it was also a shock result as you'll gather from the reports indicating the effect it might have on European rugby... --candlewicke 13:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd think I'd wait for the final, and mention this record together with the blurb, considering this is not even the top news at the BBC Sport website. –Howard the Duck 13:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
That wouldn't be down to the fact that they're more concerned with the match in their own country and the Premier League right now, would it? It happened yesterday. --candlewicke 14:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
The BBC reports almost all European sport, so I thought that was a good measure. I checked Yahoo! UK and Ireland and this is not in the top 10 most viewed stories. And it doesn't help that the two competing teams are Irish (small population), which probably explains why they used stadium where it took place, and in parallel why it broke the attendance record. –Howard the Duck 15:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I did say three continents were represented. Anyway I don't see how that makes sense? "Small" population = use of a stadium? Couldn't any country with a bigger population use such a stadium as well? You're completely misreading the popularity of the sport in Ireland... I couldn't get away from it on the (non-sport) radio this morning. What it is like now that sport is ongoing I dread to think. --candlewicke 16:20, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
It's not at the "popular" list = small population; they used the stadium since the two teams came from the same country, hence the higher possibility of it being sold out since rivalries are more established than say a club match from two different countries. For example, an SPL Celtic-Rangers match would probably be an easier sell than say, Celtic-Roma except when the match is at the latter stages already. –Howard the Duck 16:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I think you greatly misunderstand the sport. There are many such rivalries in England, for example, yet they've never been able to reach that total. Also if, for example, Connacht were to be playing Leinster, it is unlikely this attendance would have occurred. It is very much a once-off never seen before event. Leinster and Munster have often played one another yet such an attendance has never been reached. Also this isn't a domestic league match like the example you give. Leinster will play Leicester of England in the final. It is safe to say that attendance will not be reached due to stadium limitations. You seem to be clutching at straws and this is affecting your argument. --candlewicke 17:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Is Connacht playing at the H-Cup? Again, the reason why this broke the record is that 1) they were from the same country, 2) it was at the latter stages of the competition, 3) they used a much bigger stadium because of (1) and (2). –Howard the Duck 17:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
And? That's a rationale for leaving it out??? You don't expect records like these to be broken in the smaller games surely, do you?!! The point is it wasn't a final and the stadium capacity for the final cannot come close to beating it. It's unlikely we'll have such a record in another sport, such as association football or perhaps American football and even Gaelic games, as these sports regularly have high attendances of over 80,000. This is an example of a match that nobody would have thought could have reached such a level. Ulster were also in the tournament by the way. They didn't get this opportunity. Look at the pools: 2 from France in Pool A. Yet France couldn't break the record when they met? France, that much larger country with many more people? It likes rugby union too by the way. --candlewicke 17:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
No. If you'd read my edits, I merely derived the reasons why this is not that enough international "interest" despite being "international." –Howard the Duck 17:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough. But it is just two opinions. Who can say for certain which is right? --candlewicke 18:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Irrespective of the record attendance, the Heineken Cup is listed on WP:INTR as one of the recurring sporting events which we DO report, so should be included anyway. Modest Genius talk 19:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
How do you mean? This match included, do you think? It has been decided now anyway I think... --candlewicke 19:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, I didn't realise this was only the semi-final Modest Genius talk 02:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

This item is currently up for AFD. It's ineligable until that's resolved. SpencerT♦Nominate! 19:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I know, sorry that's what I meant. --candlewicke 20:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


Austrian avalanche
Austria's deadliest avalanche since 2000 kills six hikers on Schalfkogel in Sölden. --candlewicke 02:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Sources are from the UK, Ireland, US, Canada, China and the United Arbaab Emirates of all places, showing its widespread geographical reach. --candlewicke 02:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I suppose it must be a popular tourist destination... --candlewicke 02:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


Panama elections
OK. :) --candlewicke 11:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I have cleaned up the article, it now has references (it was completely devoid of these before) and (in my mind) un-biased. However it could still use some expansion (preferably by someone with a grasp of Spanish) - Dumelow (talk) 13:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Martinelli has now been declared the winner. Suggest: "Ricardo Martinelli wins elections to become President of Panama" or similar (parliamentary ballots are still being counted) - Dumelow (talk) 08:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


Pigs being slaughtered in Egypt

Related to the flu A H1N1 outbreak. –Howard the Duck 14:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Glad that I am not the only one interested in this news. However, the reason I didn't nominate this item myself is that I doubt if this can have its own article. If enough info is available out there in English (obviously none of us ITN regulars speaks Arabic) so an article can be written on it, I'd love to see it on ITN. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:16, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe this can be a subsection to the H1N1 outbreak article... whatever its name is now. –Howard the Duck 14:42, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Except that we're moving at such a fast rate that it's gone off ITN now... --candlewicke 14:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a good reason why the H1N1 blurb should go back. –Howard the Duck 15:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
It seems to have disappeared from P:CE for today... still, I suppose we could always replace the boxing with it since it's stirring up such controversy at WP:ERRORS. It would be the most suitable candidate and the one I would most favour removing. The UK is already represented by Carol Ann Duffy who has achieved much more than either of the boxers. As for the Philippines, well what's one country when the entire world is under attack and the mass slaughter of innocent animals is going on in Egypt. --candlewicke 16:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
We can always add more than replace current items to offset "bias". And the boxing match has more "interest" anyway so it satisfies that criterion. And I'm pretty sure those 25,000 Britons in Vegas cared more about the boxing match than their country's poet laurate. –Howard the Duck 16:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Some people tell us to remove it and we just meekly remove it, that's it? I thought we were supposed to have some backbone. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:54, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
True. We should stand united and not fall apart. --candlewicke 20:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Since it was I who nominated this (boxing blurb), it's OK if an admin removes this and replace it with any another item as s/he deems fit. –Howard the Duck 17:45, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I think I said this somewhere before but who in their thousands cared for a cloned camel or an asexual ant? Are we basing our choice of ITNs on what everybody cares about or the real significant events, records and discoveries? When did ITN become a news service? --candlewicke 17:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
So basically, you're saying is, we'd remove one item "in the news" today because it is not a "real significant event"? So the boxing match is an imaginary, puny, event; and a rugby match is what? –Howard the Duck 17:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Calm down, if this is going to get serious we should stop. I'm just trying to put my point across and you have a point too. I don't actually want to remove anything. I just thought we ought to give the record a chance, that people might like that too. I don't want it to descend into some sort of feud. --candlewicke 18:22, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for any offence. --candlewicke 20:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Let's go back to the topic, shall we? Can anyone write an article or create a section about it? (Preferably the former, if enough info is available.) --BorgQueen (talk) 02:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Or we could expand 2009 swine flu outbreak#Government actions against pigs and pork. Pigs have been slaughtered at Baghdad zoo, too. [27] --BorgQueen (talk) 10:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Two countries? Wow, we ought to have an article. --candlewicke 17:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I went out and pashed (passionately kissed) a few pigs this morning if it helps in any way. They're saying in Australia this is more healthy than engaging in the same processes with humans. --candlewicke 19:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


Venezuela helicopter crash

This crash has killed at least 18 people, including one general officer. I know we were trying to get away from accident stories but this seems pretty notable to me - Dumelow (talk) 19:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

The source I found was this BBC article where it is breaking news (less than ten minutes old) - Dumelow (talk) 19:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 19:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I have started an article at Tachira helicopter crash but details are very sketchy at the moment so there is not much there - Dumelow (talk) 21:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
More info has come out now and the article is a bit longer. Perhaps: "A Venezuelan Army helicopter crashes, near the Colombian border killing 18 people" - Dumelow (talk) 22:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:21, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

May 2

ITN candidates for May 2

Kentucky Derby

  • Mine That Bird, a 50-1 underdog, wins the 135th Kentucky Derby horse race by 6 3/4 lengths.
    • Second-biggest upset in the history of the Western Hemisphere's biggest horse race. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I've nothing against the sport or horses but as the shock result of the 2009 Grand National wasn't posted... it seems to be unbalanced... plus there is boxing below anyway... what does anybody else think on this one please? --candlewicke 03:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Would tend to agree with Candlewicke. Problem is there are so many 'major' races that its hard to define which should go up from each country. My opinion would be the Derby (UK), Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe (France) and Belmont Stakes (US) were the biggest. However given that each country has more than one 'classic' deciding which should go up is a matter of opinion and as such it would be near impossible to get a fair and neutral viewpoint --Daviessimo (talk) 08:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Wait for Mine That Duck Bird win the Triple Crown. –Howard the Duck 11:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I would disagree entirely with Daviessimo on one point. The Kentucky Derby is absolutely the biggest horse race in the US. The Belmont is important only as it is the last race in the Triple Crown. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 13:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
This is precisely why horse racing is such a problem. Even the boxing was easier than this... --candlewicke 15:20, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


It's been ages since I saw a boxing item at ITN that stuck around... –Howard the Duck 02:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
No boxing, please. BrainyBabe (talk) 01:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Care to explain why? Please see Wikipedia:Recurring items on ITN#Boxing—I'm not a big fan of boxing either but our personal preferences are irrelevant here. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I too am clueless. Perhaps an explanation as to the significance of this event? --candlewicke 14:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The fact that it is still the only supercard in Category:2009 in boxing has to mean something. –Howard the Duck 11:33, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
It could mean that it's the only one anyone has bothered to create so far... comparing it to what is and what isn't on Wikipedia is not particularly helpful when working out notability. --candlewicke 19:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Boxing's previous attempt at ITN De La Hoya-Pacquiao boxing match was the only boxing PPV in 2008's top 10 PPVs (all were either MMA or WWE), yeah we don't include MMA (not that notable outside the sport), and WWE (matches are "booked" beforehand). Someone suggested (dunno who) that it would've been added if OLDH retired immediately after the match (he retired several weeks ago) so I dunno how can this be ignored. Like I dunno of any other boxing match this year that would be at ITN. (Does anyone even know who the current heavyweight champ/s is/are?) Plus, it's a Brit, fighting an Asian in the States, that's like three nations right there, and the first sport-related blurb concerning an individual Asian. –Howard the Duck 14:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Persuasive enough. Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:58, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I saw something on Sky News the other day which seemed to describe Pacquiao as one of the best at what he does. So on that presumption I'd support if Hatton wins since that would presumably be big. --candlewicke 14:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Hatton is undefeated at the weight division they are fighting at. Pacquiao winning would be more of an upset. –Howard the Duck 15:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
OK. You're the expert. :) --candlewicke 01:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Hatton winning would have a better chance of happening, this may be added regardless of the the result. –Howard the Duck 03:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Blurb:


Fiji suspended
Update complete. The Pacific Islands Forum suspends Fiji's membership. --candlewicke 03:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Please include why in the blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
The Pacific Islands Forum suspends Fiji's membership due to "the recent disturbing deterioration of the political, legal and human rights situation" in the country. --candlewicke 07:42, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:22, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Brazilian floods and mudslides
Very poor reporting on this considering the damage done but I've managed to throw something together from three sources.
Floods and mudslides across Brazil kill at least fourteen people and displace 62,600 others from their homes. --candlewicke 00:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


China
Updated. "The Republic of China allows financial investment from mainland China for the first time since 1949." --candlewicke 17:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

May 1

ITN candidates for May 1

Proposed correction to incident in the Netherlands
  • I think it's sort of strangely worded. A car "interrupted" the celebrations? That might as well be a car parked in the middle of the road to block the way. And it seems odd that the car is the subject of the sentence when it's really the person inside the car who committed the attack. I think something like this might be better: "Six people are killed in an attempt on the Dutch Royal Family as a car driver crashed through crowds watching the annual Koninginnedag celebrations." 195.241.69.171 (talk) 19:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
So fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Same sex marriage in Sweden
I've nothing against this at all but why were all the recent legalisations not nominated? Support at any rate. --candlewicke 19:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Support SeanMD80talk | contribs 00:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I'd assume because they were at a state level. Support Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually, Norway legalized it this year (Jan 2009), and it wasn't nominated on ITN, AFAIK. That shows how seriously unloved the ITN project is, especially during the holiday seasons... but I am glad we are getting more contributors recently. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
More contributors? I hope you haven't initiated a curse... --candlewicke 14:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
David Souter to retire from US Supreme Court
  • David Souter to retire from the Supreme Court of the United States. [29] 207.118.117.33 (talk) 02:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Too local. Has he done anything on the international field? I'm not overly convinced by the flowery language either. "Plans to retire"? And my favourite one is "Speculation about Souter's plans began to swirl"!!! :) --candlewicke 02:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Nah, retiring justices for the most part are too minor. They all have to retire anyway. –Howard the Duck 05:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Article also suggests he is not even the oldest of his kind if that would even assist anyway. --candlewicke 13:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the oldest justice retiring is news... but the youngest retiring for some reason might be... but probably won't make it at ITN. If the justice was assassinated then that's worthy of a discussion.
P.S.: I don't think appointment of his replacement is news either. –Howard the Duck 16:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
OK, so we'll just ignore that nomination when it happens then... :) --candlewicke 16:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Unless of course the nomination sparks nationwide riots or something. –Howard the Duck 16:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
The retirement of a US Supreme Court Justice (confirmed by the the President of the US, by the way) is too local? Are you kidding me? And the currently listed story about some guy who drove his care into parade in the Netherlands isn't too local? Souter's retirement and the fact that Obama gets to nominate his replacement is huge news in the US. Blueboar (talk) 21:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
So what? Plenty of heads of state appoint judicial (and other) officials. I don't think that the retirement of a judge is more important than the assassination attempt on a head of state (and monarch). The fact that it is big local news is besides the point, I am pretty sure I know what the Dutch press will be covering tomorrow - Dumelow (talk) 21:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think justice of the US Supreme Court is your run-of-the-mill judicial appointment. I think we absolutely ought to have the nomination of Souter's successor when she (most likely) is selected. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Would anyone care to provide a detailed summary of what precisely makes the US Supreme Court more special than its Canadian, Mexican, European, Asian, African, Australian equivalents? And comparing the newly found relaxation of a judge to an assassination attempt on a monarch?!!! I don't recall there being as many countries in possession of a monarchy as there are in possession of a judge... and certainly we haven't heard much about such as audacious attempt on the life of a monarch in recent times. So yes, comparatively the retirement of a judge is too local. Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why each US state seems to have the power of a nation and all fifty the power of a supercontinent on Wikipedia... but if he is special then please explain why to the rest of the world – we don't want to remain in ignorance any longer. Not every item that is big news in the Philippines, India or China makes it onto ITN – why should Wikipedia policy on news be rewritten especially for the US? --candlewicke 23:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Several landmark cases of the U.S. Supreme Court might be required readings for law students everywhere, such as Miranda rights, Ex parte Milligan, Brown vs. Board of Education, etc. (can't the same for other equivalents elsewhere), but only most of those (landmark cases) are the events the U.S. Supreme Court can be included in ITN, appointment of justices isn't too major (especially that Souter, a liberal, is more likely to be replaced by a fellow liberal), maybe unless the new justice is openly gay too. Heh. –Howard the Duck 15:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to move this discussion to the discussion page. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


Attack on Dutch Royal Family
Suggest a blurb please. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I've already nominated this and been waiting for a reply... Five people and the driver are killed and thirteen people are injured after a black Suzuki Swift interrupts the Koninginnedag celebrations in Apeldoorn, the Netherlands. --candlewicke 13:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


First female (and Scottish) poet laureate
Commence debate over international importance. Madcoverboy (talk) 14:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. Support. Excellent find! First Scot as well. Two historic appointments in one. Anyone who knows anything about poetry ought to recognise most of her predecessors from previous centuries... --candlewicke 15:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I can't imagine anyone outside of the UK caring about this at all. And I wonder how many people inside the UK actually care. Tomdobb (talk) 18:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I wonder exactly how many people cared about cloned camels, asexual ants or walking seals? Interest is not a good method of determining a good ITN and presuming in advance that readers won't be interested? Have you seen the list of her predecessors? Are you aware of the impact they've had on the English language and therefore much of the world? Not many knew the US or Australia even existed when Chaucer, Spencer, Jonson or Dryden were alive! :O Do the names Wordsworth, Tennyson or Hughes not mean anything to anyone?! Even the list of those who have refused – Gray, Scott, Larkin... anyone with a decent knowledge of English literature ought to recognise most of these names... anyone with the most basic knowledge ought to be able to recognise at least one surely? It's not an honour they throw at any old bat. Wikipedia and ITN did not even exist the last time this happened. We don't have enough of this topic at ITN and to think that the Pulitzers can be posted without question and an award like this is deemed not interesting enough... :( many on that list happen to be very interesting characters indeed. --candlewicke 20:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not in the UK by the way. Neither is Madcoverboy if his user page is to be believed. --candlewicke 20:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
First openly gay Poet Laureate as well, according to France 24 = 3 firsts in 1! Her predecessors, Wordsworth and Tennyson are "renowned bards" even in France... which raises the question of why France would even bother reporting it if it isn't interested in it... --candlewicke 01:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
That's notable enough. Please make sure the article has that info, and I will post it soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:23, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Woo to two same-sex posts in the one day!!! :) "Carol Ann Duffy is named Poet Laureate of the United Kingdom, the first female, the first Scot and the first openly gay occupant of the post." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Candlewicke (talkcontribs)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


Worldwide protests
  • This is one to watch... Germany, Turkey, France and Russia mentioned here... --candlewicke 14:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
This says Turkish banks are being petrol bombed, 29 police injured and 12 arrested so far in Germany where cars are being set on fire in Berlin, Greek banks are being attacked by rioters, hospital staff, fishermen and university staff are striking in France, Russia, the Philippines (them again), Japan and Hong Kong are on their knees in protest and Spain, Italy and Cuba are kicking off... is this enough yet? :) --candlewicke 16:03, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Done. "Police clash with protesters across the world as traditional May Day marches turn violent in Germany, Greece and Turkey." --candlewicke 18:11, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:18, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Wording is poor. Either eliminate the list of countries or eliminate across the world. Three European countries does not equal the world and if the protests are truly worldwide it's pointless to single out just three countries. Tomdobb (talk) 18:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
So fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


Souleymane Ndéné Ndiaye

Has become Prime Minister of Senegal, according to yesterday's P:CE. I can update it further if this receives a support. --candlewicke 15:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:23, 2 May 2009 (UTC)