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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/November 2009

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Archived discussion for November 2009 from Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates.

November 30

ITN candidates for November 30

Argentine same-sex marriage case

Seems fine to me. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 02:03, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for now. I think we should wait at least until the Supreme Court makes a ruling. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:08, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Concur, wait til the Supreme Court decides. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 17:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

November 29

ITN candidates for November 29

Peru apologises to Afro-Peruvians

(BBC) "First time", "centuries of abuse", "declaration published in the official newspaper El Peruano", "went a step further in recognising that racist exclusion continues to this day", "human rights groups have said the recognition is an important political gesture after years of denial that discrimination existed", "significant". Apology precedent, Africa is a lot more than one person. --candlewicke 12:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:06, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Just wanted to nominate this myself. Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
The article will need a lot of work though. For starters, the Spanish Wikipedia cannot be used as a source. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:20, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Updated and support. One possibility is to delay this until the ceremony happens. I have no strong opinion on that.--Chaser (talk) 07:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I would wait for the ceremony. By the way, other sections in the article still lack citations. If posted in the current condition, the article will get tagged with {{unreferenced}} or something similiar and subsequently removed, like this. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:33, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Rwanda

Updated in Commonwealth of Nations membership criteria#Edinburgh criteria, which explains the significance of the admission as Rwanda was never a British colony. Arsonal (talk) 05:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I am also adding it in Commonwealth of Nations shortly. Arsonal (talk) 05:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. Arsonal (talk) 06:04, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:07, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Grey Cup

97th Grey Cup to be played.--Giants27 (c|s) 23:31, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, although too bad it won't be the Roughriders vs. the Rough Riders. –Howard the Duck 07:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
This is the recurring item for the sport of Canadian football? Support from me if this is the case. Is it to be added to WP:ITNR? --candlewicke 15:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah it's the championship and it probably should be added to recurring items.--Giants27 (c|s) 18:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

  Added. --candlewicke 03:55, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The Super Bowl is safe. For now. <evil mad scientist laugh) –Howard the Duck 05:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry, Howard. You'll be getting half of what you want. --PlasmaTwa2 00:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Game over suggested wording (first time I've done one of these): In Canadian football, the Montreal Alouettes defeat the Saskatchewan Roughriders 28-27 in the 97th Grey Cup.--Giants27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 03:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Support I think the article is updated, though there could be a better summary of the game. --PlasmaTwa2 06:27, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Not yet. The entire 2009 CFL playoffs section is totally unreferenced. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Honduran general election, 2009

Honduras votes today for a new National Congress and President. The elected president will replace Roberto Micheletti who became de facto president following the exile of Manuel Zelaya after the 2009 Honduran constitutional crisis - Dumelow (talk) 20:16, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Support per WP:ITNR. --candlewicke 12:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:38, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Might we combine the Honduran and Uruguayan elections into one blurb? It looks like we might have a busy day of news as it is.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Depends when they issue the results. It varies from a day or so to a few weeks (or even more), unfortunately we can't really predict that - Dumelow (talk) 15:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
It looks like with have winners in both elections.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:25, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I think the Honduran election article is reasonably updated. It still lacks a prose description of the final results, but but the election statistics are there. Can we post it?--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
No, we can't. We need some prose update. Besides, the article is tagged with two NPOV templates. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:50, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
I've added some prose. I propose: Porfirio Lobo is elected president of Honduras in the first election since the 2009 Honduran constitutional crisis. Grsz11 23:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --Tone 23:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Swiss referendum, November 2009

The Swiss hold a referendum to decide whether to ban minarets and the export of weapons and whether to ringfence money from aviation taxes for aviation matters. Probably note a notable event but I have never heard of a national ban on minarets and a ban on weapons exports is pretty interesting - Dumelow (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Support. This referendum does have international implications. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Support as there must be some reason for it being discussed on morning radio shows and news websites abroad. There is this from the BBC website more than a month before the referendum. Germany Bulgaria Ireland Netherlands France And, if Europe isn't good enough, North America cares too... women are to blame apparently... --candlewicke 12:23, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Support as per reasons stated, though I think it's more notable if they vote to ban minarets.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:35, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
You got what you wanted. [1] --BorgQueen (talk) 16:36, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
The article will, of course, need to be expanded significantly.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:15, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. The minaret ban seems like an important referendum with international and inter-religious ramifications. __meco (talk) 15:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
How about: Voters in Switzerland (flag pictured) approve in a referendum to ban the construction of new minarets in the country. --Hapsala (talk) 16:38, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be better if we ran with a picture of a minaret as some people might not know what they are (and it is more interesting than a flag). The article needs more prose/updating yet, anyway - Dumelow (talk) 16:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Might be nice to get a link to Minaret controversy in Switzerland, somewhere - Dumelow (talk) 16:45, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Would be nice but that article is not updated yet. Support otherwise. --Tone 16:57, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Why don't we just update and feature Minaret controversy in Switzerland instead? It seems to be easier. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:56, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment--That article has A LOT of red links. Is that an issue?--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:10, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I've removed some of them. The remaining red links are mostly people's names; I do not know whether they are notable enough to have separate articles about them, so I will leave them for now. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:28, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
  • How about this image? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:49, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I think I prefer the minaret image to the swiss flag, though I'm not sure how to refer to it in the blurb.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: Voters in Switzerland approve in a referendum to ban the construction of minarets (example pictured) in the country. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Sounds OK to me.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting. --Tone 22:42, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I updated the image to BorgQueen's minaret as it has consensus here and is more interesting than a flag - Dumelow (talk) 23:06, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Uruguayan general election, 2009

Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Support. Nirvana888 (talk) 01:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
It has gone to a run-off on November 29 so I will move this there. (AP) - Dumelow (talk) 17:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Article updated and posted.--Chaser (talk) 05:25, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Equatorial Guinean presidential election, 2009

Just noticed this one in Equatorial Guinea as well. Bit of a suspicious one with the opposition alleging foul play and the incumbent expecting to get at least 97% of the vote - Dumelow (talk) 09:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Final results by December 7 apparently. [2] - Dumelow (talk) 15:41, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
(AFP, in French) Provisional results are now in. Final results will be announced tomorrow, along with an explanation of how 292,585 votes were counted in a country with only 291,000 registered voters... - Dumelow (talk) 20:55, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Apparently it is now definitely 7 December for results. per these - Dumelow (talk) 19:44, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to archive this (when the time comes) as I will keep an eye on it and repost when the final results are (eventually) announced - Dumelow (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

November 28

ITN candidates for November 28

Namibia polls

Namibia goes to the polls for the Namibian general election, 2009 to elect a president and parliament - Dumelow (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

According to AP we could get results as early as Monday (or by December 4th) - Dumelow (talk) 12:02, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Definitely tomorrow according to the election commission here. The longest it has ever taken the results of a Namibian election to be published apparently - Dumelow (talk) 19:42, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to archive this (when the time comes) as I will keep an eye on it and repost when the final results are (eventually) announced - Dumelow (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

November 27

ITN candidates for November 27

Nobel Prize seized by Iran

(BBC) The Iranian government has confiscated human rights activist Shirin Ebadi's Nobel Peace Prize. This is the first time that a national government has ever confiscated a Nobel Prize from somebody. Iran also took her Legion d'Honneur award and a ring given to her by the German association of journalists. Iran claims that she owes the state tax on her Nobel Prize winnings - Dumelow (talk) 14:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
support as well when updated.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The report is being denied by the Iranian government. (The New York Times) Arsonal (talk) 05:23, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Support and updated. Shirin Ebadi says her Nobel Peace Prize has been seized by Iranian authorities, a claim denied by Iran. --candlewicke 19:07, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't like formulation X says Y. Not really ITN style. We report solid facts. So, I'd wait with this one until things become clearer. --Tone 19:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Besides, the article has totally unreferenced sections, one of them tagged. People don't like tagged articles on Main Page. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:38, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Didn't see all that. Just thought it required updating, sorry. --candlewicke 20:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Russian derailment

A train travelling between Moscow and Saint Petersburg derails near the town of Bologoye, killing at least thirty nine and injuring up to one hundred others after a suspected bomb blast. I think this is significant enough. I've created an article for it and I'm in the process of expanding/updating. Opinions and/or assistance welcome. HJMitchell You rang? 03:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:42, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
FYI, this is the lead story on the BBC News Channel and Sky News, nearly 1000 articles on GNews. HJMitchell You rang? 06:32, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Article looks in good enough shape. I have updated the death toll to the latest Russian official figures (which are lower). Posted - Dumelow (talk) 08:48, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Franz Josef Jung resignation

Please add this to the entry regarding Schneiderhan's resignation. --bender235 (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, can anyone come up with a nice, concise wording for the combined item? - Dumelow (talk) 14:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I suggest this be intergrated into the Schneiderhan item, making it a dual item, unless someone has already started to write an article on the political fallout of this incident. I think the latter would be warranted at this point. __meco (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I just wondered if anyone had a better wording for a combined item. The best I could come up with is: "Wolfgang Schneiderhan (pictured), the Chief of Staff of the German Bundeswehr, and Franz Josef Jung, the Minister of Labour and Social Affairs, resign over allegations that they withheld information in the aftermath of the Kunduz airstrike." which is perhaps a bit long. But I can't think of a better wording, I'll go ahead and post that if people agree - Dumelow (talk) 14:39, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The wording is fine but the article Franz Josef Jung has to be updated further. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Update expanded by Dumelow. Arsonal (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I have just added the info from Schneiderhan's article and a bit of new stuff about Jung, no time to add more I'm afraid - Dumelow (talk) 15:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks fine now. Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:58, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

H1N1 mutation

Not sure if these stories are linked yet. The World Health Organization reports a global increase of 1,000+ deaths from H1N1 (85% increase in Europe). (BBC) (WHO 27 November update) This comes a week after it confirmed virus mutations in Norway. (Reuters) Arsonal (talk) 18:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

It should at least be put up on the Current Events portal first. __meco (talk) 18:59, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The BBC article says mutated strains have also been found in China, Japan, Ukraine and the U.S. Arsonal (talk) 19:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
WHO said increased activity in India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Albania and Moldova, but decreases everywhere else. I would oppose for now. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Edward Natapei

Nominate the Vanuatu Prime Minister Edward Natapei removal from office. Natapei lost his seat because he missed 3 consecutive parliamentary sittings without submitting proper paperwork. Very unusual circumstances! Scanlan (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Support but his article needs more of an update - Dumelow (talk) 21:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, I'm not sure about this one myself. Normally we do post news regarding the appointment/election/removal of heads of government, but this man seems to have been sacked basically for not showing up for work. It's unusual for sure but, well, doesn't sound like a crisis. I say we at least wait until the replacement takes office since that will surely be nominated as well.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, still a removal from office of a Prime Minister. The method may raise eyebrows but perhaps that makes it more interesting for Main Page readers. --candlewicke 21:00, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Support from me, too. The circumstances are sufficiently unusual to be extra-interesting. GreenGourd (talk) 22:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Support because of funny circumstances. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:59, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I support but I strongly recommend when wait until a replacement is installed so that we don't have to have two similar Vanuatu stories in quick succession. We post enough 'small island nation' political news as it is.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Examples? --candlewicke 12:46, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines constitutional referendum, 2009, currently still up, an election whose result was nothing changed in a nation of only 120,000 people. I don't object to posting that, but I'm troubled by the fact that events like this get posted easily and a tragic event like the Congo ferry sinking might not get posted. Though I also feel that there are too many ferry sinkings to post them all, so honestly I don't know where I stand.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:05, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I say post it now. There is no indication a replacement will be installed soon. ... (talk) 03:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Crowded ferry capsizes in southern Bangladesh

26 people dead, and with the toll likely to rise. Ferry sinkings in S Asia and SE Asia are extremely common so this may seem non-notable, but the loss of life in this disaster is on a scale that we usually report.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:20, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, we didn't post the last similar ferry sinking. See November 22 on this page (but soon to be in archives), "Sumatra ferry sink".--Chaser (talk) 18:27, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
There's now an article. However, with saturday's sinking in the Congo, killing 73, the Bangladesh sinking is likely to get overshadowed.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
They're both important. They happened on two different continents. This is a lot of dead people to be flippant about, alas this is a regular reaction elsewhere when people are killed in these parts of the world. I support both when they are ready. --candlewicke 20:57, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Support both per Candlewicke. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Respectfully oppose Bangladesh ferry sinking. If I've been flippant before, I'm sorry. I don't think we should post deaths anywhere that occur in common ways, and that includes deaths of dozens due to car accidents in the developed world. The articles about this sinking and the Dumai Express 10 all indicate that ferry sinkings in those areas of the world are commonplace, as transport by ferry and overcrowding are routine. The only indication to the contrary is that "no major ferry disasters have happened in the past two years after stricter enforcing of safety rules." [3]. However, we did not post the sinking of the ML Happy, also in Bangladesh, in which 39 died in February of this year. (see ITN in February). If anything, we've got a news story about stricter enforcement of safety rules not working, but that is not ITN material. As to the sinking in the DRC, I think the same logic applies, but the sheer number of deaths (now 90) makes me hesitant. Still, we don't even have an article for the sinking in the Congo on 13 September (referenced here) that also killed 90, so I don't know.--Chaser (talk) 01:20, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Well I wouldn't oppose the idea of posting due to there being no article... if there is one it can be posted and if there isn't it obviously can't no matter how much support it has. Does this mean we could argue to never post another sinking because we forgot Congo once? Was it even nominated? Oh well... remember that plane crashes have occurred in threes and fours in the past too — right now seems to be ship sinking season. --candlewicke 05:14, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I take your point, but what does the absence of an article say about international interest in the subject?--Chaser (talk) 06:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
The absence of international interest in this story is not the only reason it takes time to get an article for events like this. The article has to be started from scratch. It can't just be tacked on to an existing article. An article for the Congo sinking will surely be created; th Bangladesh sinking had an article yesterday.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:14, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually in the past few hours I've created from scratch an article on a recently deceased businessman recognised in Canada and Ireland (and who apparently introduced The Rolling Stones to North America). He had not yet been added to deaths in 2009. This was despite the fact he died nearly a week ago and his funeral had already occurred. It might sound like an odd comparison to make but if this can happen when someone is known for several decades in two separate English speaking countries on two different continents then I think the absence of an article relating to any deaths in Bangladesh and Congo which occurred in the past forty-eight hours is not very surprising at all and says absolutely nothing about international interest. Or perhaps nobody in North America cares about The Rolling Stones. --candlewicke 08:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I was referring to this incident from two months ago.--Chaser (talk) 08:20, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Herschel Telescope observes death throes of largest known star

The Herschel Space Observatory has observed the 'death throes' of the largest known star. Perhaps this isn't all that significant but the 'largest known star' bit seems notable. Might be a nice science event to include? Perhaps some posters more familiar with the science could comment.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:49, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

The star is a hypergiant that could turn into a supernova at any time. The "death throes" are an ongoing process that could last tens, hundreds, thousands or millions of years. Notably, the Herschel instrument is making the first spectroscopic analysis of the star to identify the molecules being ejected. This will help us understand how stars create the chemicals that ultimately form planets and life. Jehochman Talk 12:46, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. As an astronomer myself, this is nothing special, and is basically just a good bit of PR by ESA. The star itself has been known for decades, isn't doing anything particularly interesting at the moment, and has just been observed in a new wavelength region. Exciting for astronomers who work on massive stars, but not for anyone else. Modest Genius talk 19:41, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per Modest Genius. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:51, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

November 26

ITN candidates for November 26

Publication of the Murphy Report

Support when expanded further. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
  Done [4]. Does it require more?  Cargoking  talk  18:45, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks okay now. Blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 18:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
How about: "sex abuse" -> "sexual abuse of children" --BorgQueen (talk) 19:04, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:21, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

German Chief of Staff resigns

Support when the article Wolfgang Schneiderhan (general) is updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:23, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I have done a mini-update, it will be a while before I can get around to doing it properly - Dumelow (talk) 18:34, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I hope you could finish it by tomorrow... We need a new item with a free image soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I have done a bit more. How about: "Wolfgang Schneiderhan (pictured), the Chief of Staff of the German Bundeswehr, resigns over allegations that he withheld information in the aftermath of the Kunduz airstrike" or something similar - Dumelow (talk) 19:52, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Franz Josef Jung, then Minister of Defence, has also resigned from his current position as Minister of Labour and Social Affairs. Arsonal (talk) 13:24, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Colombian general jailed

(BBC) Former Colombian general Jaime Humberto Uscategui is jailed for 40 years (the longest ever sentence given to a Colombian Army officer) after being found guilty of "guilty of murder, kidnapping and falsifying public documents". The sentence was for allowing far-right paramilitary death squads to use his army base in 1997 which (alongside his refusal to act against the paramilitaries) led to the Mapiripán Massacre - Dumelow (talk) 10:26, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Support and updated. A Bogotá court sentences a former army general to forty years in prison for his role in the 1997 Mapiripán Massacre. --candlewicke 22:12, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

St. Vincent constitutional rejection

Well-updated article, under-reported area of the world/country. BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 22:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Missed this but it has my support as well - Dumelow (talk) 15:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia flooding

This story has more than one angle of significance: fairly high death toll, basically freak weather, and most importantly it happens during Hajj with millions of pilgrims in place. __meco (talk) 23:18, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

2009 Saudi Arabia floods is well written. Support. Any chance to add an infobox? --Tone 09:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Infobox in place. Suggested blurb: "A flash flood on the Red Sea coast of Saudi Arabia during the hajj holidays leaves 77 dead and hundreds missing." One might consider naming the affected city Jeddah also, but there is some potential for unclarity as parts of the Makkah Province was also affected, but apparently no hajj pilgrims in the city of Mecca itself were victims. __meco (talk) 09:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting. --Tone 10:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Gary McKinnon's extradition

The UK Home Secretary has ordered that ufologist hacker Gary McKinnon is extradited to the United States to face trial after breaking into NASA and Pentagon computers. __meco (talk) 11:40, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Support. We could post it now (after updating a bit more), or we could wait for a verdict in a U.S. court. Either way is fine, in my opinion. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd rather wait until he has exhausted all his pre-extradition legal options. According to The Times he is expected to appeal for a judicial review of the decision and to take it to the European court - Dumelow (talk) 15:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
That is fine, too. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
If that is so I too think we should wait. I gathered from the stories I read that there were no more options left. __meco (talk) 18:51, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I have tracked the online version (I read it in print) of the article to here in case anyone was interested. It also states that "It could be months, or possibly years, before he is compelled to leave" - Dumelow (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

November 25

ITN candidates for November 25

Dubai economic trouble

  • The real-estate development company Dubai World, owned by the Dubai government, asks creditors for a 6-month moratorium on its $59 billion debt, giving unexpected indication of problems with the country's finances. __meco (talk) 13:05, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Dubai is not a country. "Emirate" or "state" would be better. Algebraist 13:09, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. I also second Algebraist's comment. Arsonal (talk) 15:28, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
We should also remove "unexpected". I've heard of Dubai's economic downhill several months ago. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:30, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
How about: The investment company Dubai World, owned by the Dubai government, asks creditors for a six-month moratorium on its US$59 billion debt, giving indication of problems with the state's finances. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:40, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) Recommend: The state-run Dubai World company, which accounts for three-quarters of Dubai's US$80-billion debt, asks creditors to extend the maturity of its loans by at least six months. Arsonal (talk) 15:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I would prefer meco's blurb (which I just slightly modified) since it is both simpler and clearer—I wondered for a moment if "giving indication of problems with the state's finances" would be POV, but the fear it has caused on the market says otherwise. Your blurb does not show (to a layperson) why the moratorium is particularly significant. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:04, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
The blurb has been shortened without any mention of the change here (perhaps it has been discussed somewhere else?). This I think is unfortunate as it removes needed context of why this item is important. __meco (talk) 23:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Shortened by User:Tariqabjotu. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:40, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Today's suspension of the London Stock Exchange also seems to be a consequence of Dubai World's money problems.[5] __meco (talk) 13:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, at first I thought a suspension of the FTSE itself would be ITN material but the article you referenced said that happened because of computer problems, so there may not be a connection to the Dubai thing.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:38, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

November 24

ITN candidates for November 24

The world's largest animal sacrifice

  • If this was an annual festival I wouldn't have nominated, but according to BBC, it happens only once every five years. "Over the next two days more than a quarter of a million animals are expected to be slaughtered for Gadhimai - a goddess of power." If the consensus supports, I will create the article. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Someone beat me to it. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:21, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Support: I came here to suggest this :) An animal sacrifice of this scale in the modern world seems highly unusual and very interesting, not to mention controversial. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 02:09, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes but the article has to be expanded a bit. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:50, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Agree with BorgQueen, support only if the article is expanded significantly.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:25, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
How about now? I'm not familiar with ITN, so does this count as a significant expansion? ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 11:29, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
It looks fine now, I think. We don't have the 5x rule here. But can you mention in the article that it is among the world's largest animal sacrifice? [7] --BorgQueen (talk) 11:50, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
OK :) ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 12:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I will wait for a while for others' comments before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. The article is slanted toward this year's event, but it seems like it can't be helped as I can't find an article from 2004 or before. Arsonal (talk) 12:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: In a tribute to Hindu goddess Gadhimai, approximately 20,000 buffalo and 300,000 birds, sheep and goats are ritually sacrificed in a festival in southern Nepal. :Does anyone have better ideas? Bariyapur is a red link, so we cannot mention it in the blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:34, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Another version: In a tribute to Hindu goddess Gadhimai, more than 300,000 animals are ritually sacrificed in a festival in southern Nepal, in the world's largest animal sacrifice in modern era. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:14, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Minor note--apparently Bariyarpur does have an article, though it seems to be spelled either Bariyapur or Bariyarpur.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:59, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment We have got some trouble here PETA .--yousaf465' 04:37, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Samak Sundaravej

I don't oppose this, but I might as be the one who asks if he meets the death criteria. It doesn't seem like his death was unexpected, and while he was a former head-of-government, it was for a rather short time. --PlasmaTwa2 07:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Support Well that is not short period in office by Pakistani standards. We can changes PM in matter of weeks. ;)--yousaf465' 07:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I'm afraid this seems like an "ordinary death of a prominent person". His death itself is not that notable- he's not exactly the Queen Mum or Pope John Paul. HJMitchell You rang? 12:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Not important enough for ITN (from one with a Eurocentric perspective). __meco (talk) 13:49, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, we can't post every head of state and head of government that dies. Manuel Solís of Panama, Bernard Kolélas of Congo-Brazzaville, Pierre Harmel of Belgium and Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi of Pakistan also died this month. They should only be posted if they had a prominent leadership, Mr Samak did not. Therequiembellishere (talk) 17:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Much of his time in office was spent battling "mass street campaigns against his government" and he was "forced from office in 2008 for starring in television cooking shows"? Can't be that forgettable. --candlewicke 21:38, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. We did post Ted Kennedy's death although he wasn't even a formed head of government. This is just as notable. Offliner (talk) 21:48, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Ted Kennedy was more internationally known, and sitting Senator when he died. This man isn't as well-known, and thus I oppose Deserted Cities (talk) 23:24, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Internationally known? Is that a joke? I'm from Europe and had never heard of the man before he died. Just because K was American and S was not does not mean we should post K but not S. Offliner (talk) 23:30, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
While I think Kennedy certainly had much more recognition due to his involvement in the Irish peace process and his brother, among other reasons, this is not a discussion on Kennedy's inclusion. That was in the past and should stay there. This isn't an issue about amerocentrism, it's simply about Samak's status on the world stage. It was low or non-existent, and that cannot be argued. As I've stated above, we can't put him up only because he was a former head of government because it would start a precedent of having every former head of state and government included. I listed those for November thus far. Should I list Octboer's? September's? Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. non-notable--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Can you explain? I see hundreds of news stories listed. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, a few hundred hits on Google news isn't very high. Though I would concede that we shouldn't rely on Google News searches.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Support From my understanding, it was Samak's actions that led to the 2008-2009 Thai political crisis: massive protests, airports blocked, etc. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
However, though, the death section needs to be expanded further. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:22, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes it was his actions which led to now infamous airport blockade by the redshirt protesters. --yousaf465' 06:17, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: An international figure, but not among the most prominent or widely-known; was in office less than a year; did not die while in office; and did not die in an accident or attack. –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 06:51, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. 2008–2009 Thai political crisis basically started because of him. Also his death isn't exactly expected. ... (talk) 10:10, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I read that he died of cancer. It wasn't exactly unexpected either. --PlasmaTwa2 17:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

West African pirates kill chief engineer

(BBC) Pirates in West Africa have attacked the Monrovian-flagged MV Cancale Star tanker, killing the Ukrainian chief engineer and wounding another seaman. The ship and crew were rescued by the Beninese Navy. I have brought this up since we featured the capture and release of a ship in a similar situation off Somalia last year (The US Navy did the hard work then) and this incident seems just as worthy (especially as piracy in West Africa is less common than at the Horn of Africa) - Dumelow (talk) 19:47, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

  • Oppose: While this is the first reported incident of piracy off the coast of Benin, piracy is not uncommon off the coast of Nigeria (40 incidents in 2008, see [9]), which borders Benin, and in West Africa more generally (100 incidents in 2007, see [10]). –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 06:43, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

November 23

ITN candidates for November 23

Philippines election attack leaves 21 dead

BBC21 people dead, more missing, all of whom were kidnapped; the events are connected to upcoming local Filipino elections. We may have reported something related to this in the past. No article yet.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:11, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Philippine general election, 2010 might be the appropriate article to update. Arsonal (talk) 22:58, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Support significant amount of deaths, numbers continue to rise. SpencerT♦Nominate! 23:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
No article/update yet? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I think we should go for the Philippine general election, 2010 article. No need for a separate article.--yousaf465' 05:06, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
(BBC) death toll now at 46 - Dumelow (talk) 11:03, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Support the article Maguindanao massacre has been created. It's the bloodest political tragedy in the Philippines--1j1z2 (talk) 13:53, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
But this amount of information could nicely have sit on the General election page.--yousaf465' 14:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Posted.--chaser (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment This article does not yet meet the update requirement of three references as per the criteria. Also, I'm not sure if this is a problem but it contains two red links. I think we could have waited a short bit to improve the article. I support its notability.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:14, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Fixed. Sorry.--chaser (talk) 18:37, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The world's largest mass vaccination

Support. Is there an article associated with the news item? Thue | talk 22:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Yellow fever seems to be the appropriate article to update. --Tone 22:54, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Note that this is not the world's largest mass vaccination as the title may suggest but the world's largest yellow fever vaccination. Support anyway (once we have an update somewhere) but I just wanted to clarify that - Dumelow (talk) 23:19, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, with an update (not sure where too). Deserted Cities (talk) 23:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Support So are we going to update the Yellow fever article ?--yousaf465' 05:12, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest either that or Yellow fever vaccine - Dumelow (talk) 10:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 21:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:02, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Huang Qi

(BBC) This Chinese human rights activist has been jailed for three years for "illegally holding state secrets". He was active in many areas including human trafficking and the response to the 2008 Sichuan earthquake - Dumelow (talk) 09:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated a bit more. And the article seems to require some minor cleanup. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Cleaned up. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Nice work, Dumelow. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
There are hundreds of human rights activists jailed every month. What makes Huang Qi so special that he deserves to be posted over those with a greater stature like Hu Jia? (Hu was arrested December 2007; I don't think he was even mentioned in the Current Events portal) Colipon+(Talk) 13:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
According to the article: "Earlier on November 7, the U.S. House of Representatives had passed a near-unanimous resolution seeking freedom of activists Huang Qi and Tan Zuoren." [13] --BorgQueen (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
The House of Representatives regularly passes such motions. Just do a search on Google. That legitimizes nothing about the subject's notability. The House has passed hundreds of resolutions on Falun Gong and its leader Li Hongzhi. Colipon+(Talk) 13:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
And both Falun Gong and Li Hongzhi are highly notable. Give us more appropriate example. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Sure, but they've never been on ItN on the main page. I am absolutely supportive of having this news story on the current events portal, but on the main page is, in my opinion, pushing it, if the only justification is that the U.S. house passed a resolution. I am happy to wait for other opinions though. So far we've only heard from two users, apart from myself. Colipon+(Talk) 14:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
You are entitled to make objections, but your logic "x has never been on ITN, therefore we shouldn't feature y, because y is less notable than x" is faulty. To feature an article on ITN, someone has to nominate it first, and someone has to update it. I agree Hu Jia is more significant but it simply means no one has bothered to nominate/update the article. Please note that most users on English Wikipedia are not familiar with China-related topics and if Dumelow hadn't nominated this article it probably wouldn't have been updated and featured. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't sure where I stood on this one but now that it's posted can we put up a picture if possible? Right now the blurb is right next to a skull. I am aware of some of the technical issues but having a blurb about a living person right next to a picture of a skull is going to invite complaints--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:41, 23 November 2009 (UTC).
If there was any free image of Huang Qi, I would have already posted it. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Or else we can replace the skull with a picture related some of our old ITN.--yousaf465' 05:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I would also like to state my unease about this being an ITN featured item. I see it as more a case of political spin than the item actually being that big on the international news screen. __meco (talk) 13:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
If there are so many concerns, maybe we should remove the item. I don't have a strong opinion for or against here. --Tone 14:09, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
This may have been a premature addition. While I believe that human rights causes are important worldwide, I do see this event as particularly significant internationally.
Maybe you're right, I won't oppose anyone removing the item - Dumelow (talk) 19:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I support the removal. --Johnsemlak (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Replaced with Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:49, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Babri Mosque report

(BBC).Liberhan commission has presented it's report to Indian PM.--yousaf465' 12:23, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I support its notability, but the article has a multiple-issues tag ({{Article issues|cleanup=January 2009|peacock=January 2009|pov=December 2007}}), one of them dating from 2007. I doubt those can be solved in a few days. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Or perhaps you could update Liberhan Commission instead. Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Seems to be a partial/deliberate/selective leak. The PM got the report a while ago and it isn't officially public yet YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 20:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
So... are you suggesting we wait until it is officially made public? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
The leaked version might have been deliberately taken out of xontext or sensationalised. Indian newspapers are very sensational and overwrought, so I would take this with a mountain of salt. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 04:20, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment Should we wait for the report to be tabled in Parliament or should we also add it right now ?

I think it also put in place why the office of CNN-IBN were attacked just 3 days ago because when I saw the attack live I was just amazed why are they attacking this channel Hindu nationalists attack Mumbai office of Indian TV news network Now I understand as it was the first one to how commission's report put blame on the accused BJP furious, Cong mum on Liberhan report .

Well the 'a selective leakage' comments were made by Murli Manohar Joshi, who is also indicated in the report.--yousaf465' 04:54, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Tabled (IndianExpress) The report has been tabled in the Indian Parliament. So it I think we can go ahead.--yousaf465' 07:14, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated: It has been updated.--yousaf465' 14:12, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Posted.--chaser (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

November 22

ITN candidates for November 22

Efren Peñaflorida

Expanded. Any comments? --BorgQueen (talk) 10:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. This is not something like Nobel peace prize. --Tone 10:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

MLS Cup 2009

What do people thing of the MLS Cup? It isn't a recurring item, but it is the highest level of soccer in North America, but overall I think it might be rather minor on the soccer/football stage. Definetly not the highest-level in the world, but I thought I'd throw it out there. --PlasmaTwa2 16:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
No way this will be posted, I think. The normal procedure is to post sports champions when it's either an international tournament, which the MLS cup isnt' (the MLS cup technically includes Toronto, but that's not really enough), or if the champion represents the highest level of the sport in the world. Thus we post the NBA and Super Bowl winners as well as the Australian Football League winner. We also post winners of international soccer tourneys like the UEFA Champions League or the FIFA World Cup. Also, the MLS cup is not the highest level of soccer competition in North America. The Primera División de México is considered a much stronger competition. Technically, the CONCACAF Champions League should represent the highest level of club competion in N America, as it is open to teams from all of North America and represents the continental championship, though I don't believe it's a very prestigious tournament.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose The only thing that gives this a chance is that David Beckham is participating , but I don't thinks thats enough. This event has little to no interest even its own country. The British press will probably cover this more than the US press. And its defiantly not the highest level of play in North America, the Mexican league is. -- Coasttocoast (talk) 22:22, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I think. Ireland also had one of these football cup finals today it would seem. I think they happen in every country. --candlewicke 01:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Note: The MLS Cup is a league competition, not a cup competition. –Howard the Duck 05:08, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I believe in the past we've decided that winning the UEFA Champion's League constituted the annual pinnacle of achievement in the realm of club football/soccer. The Tom (talk) 05:23, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Strong oppose dozens of national leagues stronger than this one, let alone continental ones. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 20:28, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

2009 Azerbaijan-Armenia negotiations in Munich

Azeri President Ilham Aliyev has warned he is ready to use force to wrest control of the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region from Armenia if last-ditch peace talks fail.--TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Leaning towards oppose. Just a warning is usually not bad enough. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Climategate

Interesting. --candlewicke 08:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
SupportWhere are does email I want to see them ;) --yousaf465' 12:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: Unidentified hackers leak more than 1,000 private e-mails and 3,000 other documents on climate change research, stolen from a server at the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I can't see the big deal here. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but the leaked documents, such as discussions of scientific data and how to combat the arguments of climate change sceptics, hardly seem to be highly sensitive state secrets or anything. --Johnsemlak (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
We are not talking about state secrets here, but the scientific data stolen has defiantly caused a steer in world. This is more important than even if some hacker in afghanistan could have got hold of CIA agents names and addressees.--yousaf465' 14:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
What 'scientific data' has been stolen actually? It seems to me that the leaked emails contain 'discussions' of scientific data rather.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Seems like a storm in a tea-cut to me. Thue | talk 19:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
This item seems to be growing, many are quoted to assert that these documents critically undermine the integrity of one side of the climate change debate. I can see prolific coverage in my own language, so either Norwegians have an unusual interest in this story or it has gathered widespread international coverage and a developing debate is taking place. Also, I notice that our article is also being significantly expanded. I suggest we prioritize this now. __meco (talk) 17:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree with meco. Indeed, the article has been expanded a lot. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
The WP article itself states that the fallout from the hackings has not changed the facts that we know about global warming. There is no concrete evidence that global warming is a hoax or some similar development. Perhaps I don't understand the academia here but I find it hard to believe that these hacked emails at East Anglia University could contain anything that undermines the integrity of the entire global scientific community.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree with BorgQueen. For me the press quotes in the article put this over the edge. Although there is a legitimate argument that these emails mean nothing, we're not supposed to take sides. If we post, I'd favor changing the hook. How about "Climate change scientists' emails are stolen and published online, stirring debate in advance of a UN Conference on climate change." Or simply "...stirring debate." Thoughts?--chaser (talk) 18:29, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure how posting this or not posting this is taking sides. Given the fact that coverage of this hasn't been overwhelming and hasn't gotten prominent headlines at the BBC or NYTimes etc., I don't there's huge pressure to post this. If we do, I suggest we stick with Borgqueen's original blurb. Stick with the facts and avoid a vague phrase like 'stirs debate'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:12, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:42, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

China mine blast

87 people are confirmed dead and 21 are feared trapped in a large explosion in a mine near Hegang in Heilongjiang province, China, making it the worst [[such accident in China's recent history. I've recently created the relevant article, now that "worst accident in recent history" seems to satisfy WP:N- this is getting a lot of media attention worldwide and seems significant enough... HJMitchell You rang? 05:09, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support - TouLouse (talk) 07:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 08:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:06, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Sumatra ferry sink

A ferry with 200 passengers sunk in Sumatra, Indonesia. TouLouse (talk) 07:42, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

source. Still need an article. It's going to take a bit of time to find out the death toll on this one.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:17, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Support but when updated.--yousaf465' 12:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when article is created.Shinerunner (talk) 14:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 01:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
The name of the ship is Dumai Express 10. So far there are 29 deaths and 17 missing.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:31, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I have created the article, but I am not sure posting this would be such a good idea. The BBC and AFP stories both indicate that sinkings due to overcrowding are common in this archipelago country where transport by ferry is routine. If a horrific car accident in the United States killed 29 people, would we post that?--chaser (talk) 05:32, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I tend to agree with chaser. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
If 29 people were killed in an accident in the US there would be a lot of support for posting it. We posted the Fort Hood shooting spree which killed half that. That said, I agree ferry sinkings are extremely common in that part of the world. It seems like every month there's such an event.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
If it was in the US, it would definitely get posted, but due to our natural bias and the infrequent occurrence of ferry crashes here--Coasttocoast (talk) 09:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
There are a lot of shootings in the US, and if 29 people got killed, they'll probably get posted. My point is, maybe sinking ferries in Indonesia is common, but 29 people dying is not so. ... (talk) 10:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

November 21

ITN candidates for November 21

"Hobbits" are a separate species

  • A research concludes that Homo floresiensis, discovered in 2003, is a distinct species and not a previously known species with dwarfism or microcephaly. [16] [17] Does anyone think this is significant enough? The article is FA, so it might require some more caution when updating. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:24, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Yes, I think this is significant. Offliner (talk) 19:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. This one is on par with our headlining of Darwinius. __meco (talk) 02:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
There's some concern about this at WP:ERRORS. SpencerT♦Nominate! 23:11, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

LHC

If people are just talking about it perhaps it is best to wait until they do? --candlewicke 19:11, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps. This seems to be getting significant coverage (which is why I nominated it) but I couldn't possibly claim to understand the complexities if the physics. HJMitchell You rang? 19:19, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Offliner (talk) 19:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
The article has already been featured on 10 September 2008, and I am not certain if we should feature it again now. Besides, it is only matter of time until we get more notable stories regarding this machine, it seems... [18] --BorgQueen (talk) 07:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree here. Let's wait until they make the Higgs particle or a black hole or whatever new physics they may find. This time they intentionally did not make a big story about restart, why should we? (I am sure there will be a couple of interesting stories coming soon.) --Tone 16:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, first time it was switched on was notable, second time is not so much - Dumelow (talk) 20:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

November 20

ITN candidates for November 20

Romanian presidential election

The first round of the Romanian presidential election, 2009 will occur which may see one of the candidates achieve enough votes to become president. Otherwise the run-off (between the top two) will be held on 6 December - Dumelow (talk) 20:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Moved from future events. It doesn't look like there will be a winner in the first round but it's here just in case there is - Dumelow (talk) 19:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
it has gone to a run-off so it is now in future events - Dumelow (talk) 09:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Galileo Galilei

Bits of his body found. Now "everything is back in responsible hands". --candlewicke 02:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Support because the picture is copyrighted, whew. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
If someone's entire body (or at least skull/head) has been lost and found, I will definitely support as long as the person is notable enough to be in history books. But just some small parts of the body...? Leaning towards oppose. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:19, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I initially supported this but the photo is still making me sick two days later. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:36, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh my, Susan, it is just a finger! :-D --BorgQueen (talk) 04:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

UK & Ireland floods

"Continued flooding, affecting Great Britain and Ireland, results in the death of a police officer when a bridge collapses at Workington." Jolly Ω Janner 20:47, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

You might want to use the terms "Great Britain and Ireland" as this is a geographical article, rather than a political one. Jolly Ω Janner 20:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I've changed it to Great Britain as the article now covers events in the Isle of Man. Mjroots (talk) 07:49, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. I'm not very aware of what is going on in Great Britain (although I know one policeman has been killed and several bridges have collapsed) but Ireland "is facing a multi-million euro clean-up bill after some of the worst flooding in living memory", with one town resembling a mini-Venice. The city of Cork's water supply has been shut down. University College Cork now apparently resembles [www.examiner.com/x-18528-NY-Irish-American-Community-Examiner~y2009m11d20-New-York-Irish-concerned-for-worst-flooding-in-living-memory-in-Cork-City-and-elsewhere "a broad lake"] as all lectures are cancelled for at least one week. Electricity has been cut off in Galway. Government ministers have been viewing the devastation. The Irish Times provides a round-up of the worst hit areas. Oh, and there's more on the way. --candlewicke 02:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment I'm not sure of the procedure here, but this article should still be a candidate for consideration for ITN today. Further bad weather is forecast over this weekend, and the article still remains "current". Full disclosure - I created the article, thus have some interest in getting a rare "ITN". I'm happy for other editors to judge the event on its merits as to whether or not it is included. Mjroots (talk) 07:46, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree. But I'd like to ask for a slightly more descriptive blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:16, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
To that end, I've expanded the hook. Mjroots (talk) 10:26, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I will wait for a while for someone else's support before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:35, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I support posting - it could also be mentioned that the record for the amount of rain falling in any UK place within 24 hours looks like it has been broken (relevant articles Seathwaite, Allerdale & UK rainfall records). The Met Office are calling it provisional but the Environment Agency (it is their gauging station) say it is a record. JMiall 12:07, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:16, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Algeria–Egypt relations

"Cairo recalls its ambassador to Algeria after soccer violence". "Relations between the two countries have been recently marred by football fanaticism, which reached its peak right before and after the crucial match that ended when Egypt defeated Algeria 2-0 at Cairo International Stadium on Saturday". --candlewicke 12:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when we have an update somewhere for the recall of the ambassador - Dumelow (talk) 10:48, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Egypt recalls its ambassador to Algeria in a dispute which follows a qualifying match between the nations for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. --candlewicke 04:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Congo fishing rights

(BBC) More than 100 have been killed and 50,000 forced to flee after clashes between two ethnic groups over fishing rights in the Democratic Republic of Congo. No sign of an article yet - Dumelow (talk) 16:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

No, it is a real pity. --candlewicke 02:14, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

East African Community

(BBC) The leaders of the East African countries agree to implement a common market in July 2010. Do we want the agreement on ITN now or just the implementation in July (if so I'll stick this in future events)? - Dumelow (talk) 16:40, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Future events it would appear. --candlewicke 09:04, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

November 19

ITN candidates for November 19

Jeanne-Claude dies

  • Oppose for now. If nothing else, the article is too short, one sentence update. --Tone 14:25, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose - lack of citations. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 22:58, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
You're right. I added as much as possible from the NYT and will try to find more. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:21, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
A lot more added. Any support? -SusanLesch (talk) 03:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
OK. --candlewicke 05:49, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
If she is a notable artist on her own right, she shouldn't be called someone's wife on Main Page (even if her husband's name is slightly more well-known). --BorgQueen (talk) 11:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I had never heard of either of them so it's difficult for me to judge this. One thing I would like is some more concrete evidence in the article about any recognition she has received as an artist (e.g. awards), and there is not section on her influence (which is pretty standard for major artistic figures).--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:58, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't know but think you can just say Jeanne-Claude and not wife of (they have a history of having their work co-identified but you're right, BorgQueen). Johnsemlak, I don't think she got awards, just was awarded the job at a number of notable venues. Let me know if I can improve the article any more to make it acceptable. The joint article is a stumbling block. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
To me the article is rather problematic. Aside from (and probably stemming from) the issue of a joint article, there's no proper biography section for Jeanne Claude (which results in the update on her death being in an unexpected location in the article). As I said before, there's no section on her or the couple's influence or legacy. I realize that she just died and her husband is still living but they had been active for long enough that if they were "a key figure in their field of expertise", they ought to have been highly influential.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I thought a woman artist was a good idea for the Main Page. But now agree that she wasn't an independent--it took two people to be Christo and Jeanne-Claude. So withdrawing the suggestion. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:01, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

First EU Foreign minister

Again, the update is currently too short. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:47, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
And calling her post "Foreign Minister" is convenient, but inaccurate. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:53, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
The article has been well updated. I'd like to wait for supports before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
This can be added to the existing blurb, it is the same topic after all. --Tone 14:25, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

First EU President

Thanks but already nominated below. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Currently the update is too short. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Discovery of three ancient crocodile species announced

Suggested blurb: The discovery of ancient crocodile genera, Kaprosuchus and Laganosuchus, in Morocco and Niger is announced. Apparently the genus Araripesuchus is not new, according to the article. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:47, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Support No need to mention the country of discovery ? --yousaf465' 04:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

USACE responsible for Katrina flooding

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. Grsz11 17:23, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
That was fast, thanks. I'd like someone else's support before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
This isn't getting very much coverage.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that's accurate. "army corps" katrina. Not to mention the possible ramifications. Grsz11 18:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
OK I should have been more specific. Mainstream media outlets are not giving it prominent coverage. On the NYTimes site I have to scroll down to the bottom to see it. However, I agree the ramifications seem potentially significant.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Support - But the wording needs changing as some flooding of New Orleans would of happened anyway during Katrina. As there would of been some freshwater flooding and a surge from Lake Pontchartrain.Jason Rees (talk) 22:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
A new blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 07:14, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Assassination of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman

We customarily post the first conviction, but in this case it predates the birth of ITN so I suppose it could be justified to feature this now. Murdering a country's founder is an extremely serious charge and I believe it is notable enough for ITN. The update needs to be expanded though... Any supports? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:10, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

EU meets to appoint a president

(BBC) The EU meets to appoint a president and foreign policy chief. Not really much of a democratic event but still a fairly important appointment - Dumelow (talk) 11:09, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when the result is known and the article President of the European Council is updated accordingly. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Support The appointment of a figurehead and foreign policy czar for the world's biggest economic unit is significant enough. HonouraryMix (talk) 10:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Support Only when the result is know.--yousaf465' 12:22, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
They chose Herman Van Rompuy. [20] --BorgQueen (talk) 19:54, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
However, we need to wait for an official confirmation. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:59, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Support only noting that Van Rompuy is appointed as the first President of the European Council. Grsz11 20:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Why not the foreign policy chief? --BorgQueen (talk) 20:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, and I really can't see any viable objection on this one, but the job is President of the European Council: the title in Grsz11's proposal is no more than a media shorthand for a proposed role. Equally, Cathy Ashton's new role is officially High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, an article that does not currently exist. Kevin McE (talk) 20:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
The article for Ashton's job is actually at High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy which redirects to the older name of High Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy (which has a section on the new job), confusing stuff - Dumelow (talk) 20:16, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Confusing it is. I've created the new article that was formerly a redirect. Grsz11 20:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Odd: I've just found it at High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (even longer!) Kevin McE (talk) 20:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Per usual "when updated" etc.  Cargoking  talk  22:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Support/ I know the update may be short/incomplete right now, but it seems to be at least as a big of a deal as Obama. I can hardly believe that this isn't up on the main page yet. —Goodtimber (walk/talk) 01:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I am confused to how the naming of the EU president is still not on the main page! Obama's was updated in 4 minutes, and this one, the 1st president is still not up after 3 hours!? Nergaal (talk) 02:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Maybe because them Americans update quickly? –Howard the Duck 02:21, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
And maybe because he didn't want the job. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:22, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I dunno how this position was chosen, but it was either Obama or McCain anyway, and they could've planned it for months. I think this one was a bit harder since there were no clear frontrunners. –Howard the Duck 02:27, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated enough; posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
False comparison: this job is by no means a direct parallel with US president. He is called a president because he presides over a body (the European Council): he is not a head of state. But still support. Kevin McE (talk) 07:07, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

November 18

ITN candidates for November 18

Thierry Henry in World Cup qualification controversy

This has to go up. The 1998 World Champions, reduced to begging for a place in the 2010 World Cup via a runner's up second qualification round, only manage to go through after a blatant bit of cheating to set up the decisive goal by one of the most famous footballers in the world. It's already being called Le Hand of God. MickMacNee (talk) 02:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I think you could mention the controversial goal, but perhaps expand the news in that last night was the last day of World Cup qualifiers and that the 32 teams are known now with Algeria, Slovenia, Greece, Portugal, Uruguay and France joining them chandler 04:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose We cover who wins the World Cup, not who does or doesn't get in. Grsz11 04:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
    Honestly, how do people get away with responses like this? You haven't even read the nomination by the look of this reply. MickMacNee (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment To me it appears to significant one, but little controversial one.--yousaf465' 04:54, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: controversial decisions in sport happen every day; the understandable annoyance of the Irish does not constitute news. Besides, I don't want to be reminded of it... Kevin McE (talk) 07:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Once again, how do people get away with responses like this, that just don't even relate to the actual nomination? To claim this particular bad decision, with this sort of consequence, happens every day, is just patently false. MickMacNee (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Ridiculous goal, but doesn't belong to ITN. Offliner (talk) 07:22, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, as ever, its pretty impossible to judge what does or doesn't belong on ITN until you waste the time drafting a nom. Its even harder when as with some of the above replies above, people don't even bother reading it. The section shouldn't even be called In the News for a start, its just blatant falsehood. MickMacNee (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose yea, its got alot of attention. But there's no precedent for putting them on ITN. If I were you MickMac I'd Assume Good Faith with editors who oppose your suggestions. Badgering gets you no where. Deserted Cities (talk) 14:47, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
How can I assume good faith when people make such obviously poor responses, which don't even bother to address the actual content of the nomination? MickMacNee (talk) 15:02, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure how that statement is even valid. Everybody has said no, plus a reason. Grsz11 15:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
So, your insistence that this is just an announcement of who qualified is accurate yes? The insistence from Kevin that this happens everyday is accurate yes? These are reasons yes, but they certainly have nothing to do with the content of the actual nomination. MickMacNee (talk) 15:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
At the very least we should wait and see if FIFA issues a ruling on this and what sort of impact it has. I think its hard to justify posting this right now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
They already did - it is the standard 'referee's decision is final' judgement, but the FAI will appeal based on precedents, and because the referee didn't see it, but his FIFA assessor did. MickMacNee (talk) 18:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Asking for a rematch is hardly a diplomatic incident. Oppose --PlasmaTwa2 18:26, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
You know something, I'd love to see this up because the feeling among my fellow Irish people is so strong. Now everyone hates him and wants a proper rematch, even the Taoiseach. But I must keep a neutral view and ask myself "apart from the Irish and the French (and maybe some other Europeans) who gives a hoot about something like this". So I must agree and Oppose.  Cargoking  talk  18:29, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be inaccurate to say that nobody outside of Ireland or France 'give a hoot' about this. The World Cup is the world's largest sporting event and this incident has the potential to damage its integrity. There's certainly significant interest in this story: trending topic, Google News.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I underestimate the power of football. I can see why you think my comment is inaccurate. Maybe other people share my anger...  Cargoking  talk  18:53, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Happens every day, run of the mill, yadder yadder yadder. Does anyone opposing this nomination actually know anything about world football at all? If you think prime ministers get involved in stuff like this all the time, you are utterly utterly wrong. MickMacNee (talk) 19:01, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Thank you Mick. Everyone is now aware of your opinion as to whether this should be posted at ITN. Now please allow others to express their opinions without constant argument. Kevin McE (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Here, here.  Cargoking  talk  20:29, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Considering anytime Obama takes a dump it gets on ITN, and whenever the Space Shuttle transports loo rolls to the space station it gets on ITN, and considering the death of an elderly and ill US President is the only death that ever makes ITN, then as an Irishman, you should really be reflecting as to exactly what else Ireland related is ever going to make ITN in the next decade, if this is considered 'internationally unimportant'. MickMacNee (talk) 21:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. It would be great if it could be posted but I think not. I think the whole situation is ridiculous too but to approach it without all that emotion there is not much here (yet). They have only reached the stage of politicians exchanging comments, perhaps when it becomes even more serious and something happens such as the match being replayed (which seems to be unexpected) or France and Ireland cutting all diplomatic ties. It is possible that this could develop further but I will keep my support for when it does. --candlewicke 21:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Look Mick, I think you need to respect the opinion of the community. You mention Irish people, myself and Candlewicke are Irish and Kevin has Irish roots. Ireland, just like any other country gets its fair share of ITN. Yes this is a big incident, that makes headlines, but one handball in World Cup qualification playoff is far from notable. I think you should take the suggestions, cool down and stop debating (somewhat off the point) US centralism [been there, done that]. This isn't the place. Thanks,  Cargoking  talk  22:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Hurling final, referendum, resignation of Speaker: Ireland hasn't done badly in the last couple of months. Its ITN appearances don't need to be measured in decades. Kevin McE (talk) 22:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
LOL. You do realise the first two are automatic, and every country gets an ITN in those circumstances, however important or unimportant the country is on the world stage. As for John O'Donoghue (politician), how did that survive the inevitable opposition of 'not internationally significant' to get a listing? And I wonder how many ITN's the UK expenses pallaver garnered if that sort of thing is getting a listing. I equally wonder how domestic expenses scandals are important enough for ITN, and Africa breaching 1 million and the French football captain cheating to get France to the biggest football competition on the planet, isn't. Frankly, is ITN anything more than a glorified space and politics blog, is the real question. I am not kidding when I say that every single time I have decided to subject myself to the craziness that is trial by ITN, there has been a pre-existing political or space based entry on ITN. MickMacNee (talk) 00:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
And even though it is a politics blog, I find it hilarious nobody can be bothered to muster up 5 lines and three refs to support the current no-brainer candidate, the announcement of the new EU President! And what is part of his remit? Co-ordinating the introduction of a new EU directive to force FIFA to use video refereeing, called for as a direct result of this trivial little event! What marvelous irony. I bet he's also got the news about Africa on his mind too, even if Wkipedia hasn't. MickMacNee (talk) 00:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Africa tops 1 billion

This has to be a no-brainer surely (I stole it from the current events list). MickMacNee (talk) 01:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. — Jake Wartenberg 03:01, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I had to revert it. Its prose update consists of just one sentence. Please see Wikipedia:In_the_news#Updated_content: "The decision as to when an item is updated 'enough' is subjective, but a five sentence update (with at minimum three references, not counting duplicates) has generally been considered more than sufficient, while a one sentence update is considered extremely questionable." --BorgQueen (talk) 03:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I don't see the point in listing arbitrary and entirely predictable increases in population. There is no immediate impact of this non-event. Nothing particular about Africa, but I don't think population milestones should be included on ITN for any continent, country, or other region. Dragons flight (talk) 06:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
You say that as if an entire continent passing 1 billion happens everyday. Why you even think that this would lead to countries and regions being listed, and therfore you must nip this continent precedent in the bud now, is beyond me, it is a total over-reaction. As for being predictable, shuttle launches are predictable, elections are predictable, the death of ill presidents in their seventies is entriely predictable. No immediate impact? What impact did you expect? That the whole place sinks under the weight or something? Europe declares a state of emergency and closes its borders? How exactly do you define as impact anyway? What exactly is the impact of any of the current ITN entries? I can see only two out of the five that could even be considered as having a lasting impact. MickMacNee (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose little international impact. I concur with dragonflight, we all knew this would happen, and no one really cares. People do, however, care about elections and shuttle launches (and in the case of elections, we don't know the outcome 'til they happen). The solstices are predictable events, we don't put those on. Deserted Cities (talk) 14:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Sure, this event is the same as a solstice. Unbelievable. MickMacNee (talk) 14:56, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
The only "event" that be said to have definitely happened is the publicaton of an estimated population figure. Kevin McE (talk) 19:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
And you point is what exactly? I am pretty sure that this is how it is done all the time, they don't actually count the people you know. MickMacNee (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Corruption Perceptions Index

The problem is that there is no prose update... Any volunteers? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:51, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think this is ITN material... --Tone 16:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Why might it not be ITN material may I ask? I may be able to update the prose a bit tonight. I've also been working on a way to make the table sortable by year as it is quite a mess to look at right now. Arsonal (talk) 19:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think a yearly survey is that big of event, and there isn't a big change from the last list; all the top countries are still in the top. --PlasmaTwa2 19:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I suppose you may be correct. It is also not on WP:ITNR. However, I will invite suggestions to on ways improve the article and the display of data at Talk:Corruption Perceptions Index. Arsonal (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
It has caused quite a stir in Pakistan, but still I don't think it needs to go on Main page.--yousaf465' 04:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Queen's Speech

Thanks for the nomination. I, unfortunately, have to say no to this one. ITN candidates have to be considered from a worldwide perspective, and I don't think the opening of a parliament in one country is a significant enough event. HonouraryMix (talk) 13:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I'll have to oppose as well, we don't have annual addresses from other heads of states. --Tone 16:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose no one in England even cares about it, let alone on an international stage --UltraMagnusspeak 19:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Our president also address to parliament every year. Not ITN worthy.--yousaf465' 05:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


November 17

ITN candidates for November 17

626 Ethiopian Troops Killed in Clashes according to rebels

Support when created or located. --candlewicke 21:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

"50 feared dead in Burma ferry accident"

Support. --candlewicke 21:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Leonids meteor shower

Leonids meteor shower occurs annually in November - occuring November 10-21, 2009 with a peak - November 17 Watch Out for Leonids 2009 Meteor Shower which may produce upwards of 500 meteors per hour - NASASriMesh | talk 19:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The Original of Laura

  • The Original of Laura, an incomplete novel by Russian writer Vladimir Nabokov, is published 32 years after his death despite his wish that its manuscript be burned. (BBC News) This is certainly more notable than Belle de Jour, I think. The article has already been well-updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: The Original of Laura, a novel by Russian writer Vladimir Nabokov, is published despite his wish that its manuscript be burned. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Support As you say your Majesty. do we need to mention thatg he died 32 years ago.--yousaf465' 11:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
No, not really. :) --BorgQueen (talk) 11:22, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. Nabokov is widely considered one of the greatest writers of the last century, and I believe no one will seriously object. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Well still nobody has. --yousaf465' 11:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Offliner (talk) 13:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
It seems to be of significance that it is published posthumously against his will. Perhaps the blurb should mention "his dying wish"? Arsonal (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
How about "... published posthumously"? "His dying wish" sounds a bit informal. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:12, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I guess that works too. :) Arsonal (talk) 14:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Kumi Naidoo

It seems someone beat me to it. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:36, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Isn't the article too short ? --yousaf465' 11:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it has to be expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. Offliner (talk) 13:22, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, a first for Africa. --candlewicke 21:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


November 16

ITN candidates for November 16

Space Shuttle Atlantis

NASA launches Space Shuttle Atlantis on STS-129 at 1928 UTC (2:28pm EST), bringing supplies and the first two ExPRESS Logistics Carriers to the International Space Station.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Is this launch anyhow different from other regular launches ie. what is the level of importance? The US TV stations did not run the full coverage of later Apollo missions for an example, so I am wondering if this SS launch is really important.--Avala (talk) 21:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, we apparently have a strong pro-space bias here on ITN... The article is good. But maybe we really should not cover every Shuttle or Soyuz launch. Any suggestions for guidelines in such cases? --Tone 22:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree that these launches may sometimes seem routine. It is an WP:ITNR event. I did notice it was #5 on BBC's frequently viewed articles page yesterday.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon, per WP:ITN/R. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Support shooting anything into space is of significant international importance. --UltraMagnusspeak 07:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Even bullets ? If are propelled by such a large force ;)--yousaf465' 11:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)--yousaf465' 11:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Only if they hit something, I am sure that would break some sort of world record too --UltraMagnusspeak 19:10, 18 November 2009 (UTC)


November 15

ITN candidates for November 15

Belle de Jour

"One of the best kept literary secrets of the decade is revealed". "It was the new millennium's equivalent of the 1980s' search for the golden hare: the quest to identify the author of the call girl blogger 'Belle de Jour'". The Times says, "Meet Belle de Jour, the anonymous blogger and former prostitute whose explicit, funny, articulate, eye-popping online Diary of a London Call Girl has fascinated millions of readers worldwide. Here she is: Belle, the famous tart, whose books became runaway bestsellers, who was played on screen by Billie Piper in the television series based on them, whose brand is instantly recognisable to anyone who uses the internet or bookshops and who has stirred up a considerable amount of controversy through her writing-as-a-whore career, not least because she has always refused to condemn prostitution as being necessarily bad or sad: our very own second-wave Happy Hooker", etc. Number one story on the BBC website. "The Internet's most famous anonymous sex blogger ¿ turned best-selling author ¿ turned internationally successful TV series ¿ has finally outed herself in the UK's Sunday Times", according to The Washington Post. I imagine there should be some interest in this. --candlewicke 19:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I was considering to nominate her myself... I suppose this item could get an exemption from WP:BLP considerations since Belle de Jour came out herself, with her own free will... --BorgQueen (talk) 20:02, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about free will... the sources seem to suggest she was about to be outed. --candlewicke 20:04, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
At present the article isn't actually very good. Dragons flight (talk) 20:07, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
If consensus supports this item, I am sure Candlewicke will turn the article into much better shape. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:10, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
It appears to have been The Daily Mail again. No more reliable source yet though. Expanded and still no objections. Suggesting, Belle de Jour, author of The Intimate Adventures of a London Call Girl, reveals her true identity. --candlewicke 02:27, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. This looks like national-level entertainment news. It doesn't look like this has much significance outside the UK. Offliner (talk) 06:53, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. this is tripe. nn outing. Not like it was a famous spy who handed over info about nukes, space shuttles etc. Or who busted Nixon etc YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 08:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose The author of three books, two of which are so unimportant that their titles are not even given on the article, and one is a salacious little book that lead to a tawdry late-night TV programme on a freeview channel. If it treated of anyone not in a tittilating trade, the press would have no interest in revealing her identity. This is not a major author of important literature, and Wikipedia is not a tabloid. Kevin McE (talk) 08:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as well. How's with support for Patriarch Pavle and Humar? --Tone 12:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Kevin's oppose. This is tabloid fare.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, I don't see that Dr. Magnanti accomplished as much as the reporters for the Guardian and Telegraph seem to think she did. Probably male reporters. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually, one of those reporters, India Knight, is female. I see your point though. :) --BorgQueen (talk) 04:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Death of Patriarch Pavle of Serbia

(BBC) How about this guy? I know the article isn't up to scratch yet (for updates) but he was the leader of the Serbian Orthodox Church which has about 7 million adherents - Dumelow (talk) 12:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Btw, I wouldn't use the image; its source is unclear , probably copyvio. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Weak support Seems to be an important religious leader.--yousaf465' 13:28, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. --Tone 13:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm of two minds of this one. It appears to be a very good article (just needs the update). He certainly was an important religious leader and he has a bit of an international profile since his denomination has adherents in many neighboring countries and some further afield. Plus, posting this will put a good informative article on the front page which readers will not get easily on more mainstream sites. That said, he generates less than 300 hits currently on Google News. (Edit--now over 300) I'm not sure how interested readers of the en.wiki are in this. We don't have an established rule (AFAIK) that we post deaths of leaders of religious denominations. As the criteria may seem lacking, it could become prime fodder for 'you posted x, why don't you post y' arguments. We also get occasional comments that we post too many deaths on ITN. On balance, weakest possible support. --Johnsemlak (talk) 15:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree that posting this will draw complaints, especially since it is Christianity-related. I don't recall seeing, for example, any Hindu saints/gurus or Buddhist clerics (except perhaps the Dalai Lama) on ITN... --BorgQueen (talk) 16:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
When the DL passes on, there will be a lot of clamoring and rightly so. While there are only 7 million adherents, religious feeling can be quite strong in this part of Europe, eg some priests blessing some paramilitaries before they went to Bosnia. If the leading cleric in Netherlands/Australia died, then probably not. Still, I don't think the dissident and imprisoned patriarch of VN Thich Huyen Quang got in last year YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 18:37, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
What you talk about is completely unrelated to the Patriarch in question. And leading cleric in Netherlands/Australia is not autocephalous. Patriarchs are equal to Pope not local priests in Catholic countries.--Avala (talk) 22:53, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
My comments weren't meant to say that he wasn't so important, the other way around YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 08:02, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. He was also the oldest among the Orthodox patriarchs and this involves 7 countries under the rule of the Patriarchate of Peć.--Avala (talk) 22:50, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I now expanded the article per the request of other users and set valid references so that the ITN can be expanded.--Avala (talk) 23:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually, the death paragraph still has to be expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:57, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
OK expanded as much as I could, and really now there is nothing more you can add there as there is nothing controversial about this.--Avala (talk) 12:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Nice work! Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, there's also Tomaž Humar, who was one of the most prominent alpinists of recent era and his death was widely covered. The article can be expanded if you think there would be enough support. --Tone 17:26, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I was considering to nominate Humar myself, but is he that well-known? He certainly generates more hits on Google News than Pavle though. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:02, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Support both. Was Thich Huyen Quang nominated as he could not have been posted if nobody noticed? Either way both Humar and Patriarch Pavle seem important judging by the reaction to their death (and Humar died while in action doing what he was known for). --candlewicke 19:44, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I think featuring two deaths at the same time on ITN is a bad idea. Just one death alone tends to draw complaints. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:53, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
We can have Belle de Jour (see above nom) in the middle. ;) Besides Humar has been dead for some time so they won't be together. --candlewicke 19:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose (a little late sorry) because the gentleman was 95 years old. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:12, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Argentina allows men to marry in legal first

The couple, Alex Freyre and Jose Maria Di Bello, said in a statement posted on a gay rights Internet site that the decision would allow them to become "the first gay couple in Latin America to get the right to marry." The government will not appeal the decision, according to CNN. Article is LGBT rights in Argentina, is updated and I therefore propose A judge in Buenos Aires allows a gay marriage to take place, the first of its kind in Latin America. --candlewicke 08:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I tend to think that we need to wait until they legalize same-sex marriages nationwide. I mean, if we allow this to go on MP we have to allow state-wide legalizations in the U.S. too. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, Latin America is a lot bigger than a state surely? --candlewicke 08:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but this is just one marriage, not Latin America-wide legalization. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:50, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I think a nation-wide legalization within Argentina is highly significant. It shouldn't have to be legalized throughout Latin American to make the news. However, what we have here is just a court decision, not a change in the law (as far as I can see; IANAL and all that). How significant is this for Argentina?--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:44, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I think a nation-wide legalization within Argentina is highly significant.: Yes, that's why I said "I tend to think that we need to wait until they legalize same-sex marriages nationwide", which hasn't happened yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Nevertheless, it's a big milestone in gay rights on that continent. __meco (talk) 09:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry BorgQueen, I think I misunderstood you slightly above. In any case, is it possible that a this court decision is in fact law, and thus a legalization?--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I am not a legal expert but as far as I know legalizations can only be done by the legislature, not the judiciary. According to Reuters: "This week's ruling by Judge Gabriela Seijas in Buenos Aires, ...[snip]..., may increase pressure on lawmakers to debate a gay marriage bill currently deadlocked in Congress." --BorgQueen (talk) 11:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
If you're not a legal expert, then don't jump to legal conclusions. Nutmegger (talk) 15:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice but if we refrain from commenting on topics that we are not experts in, no dicussion can take place here on ITN since we are dealing with such a wide range of topics, often related to many distant countries. We cannot afford to wait for experts to make comments here since we are chronically short of volunteers. You are welcome to correct if I am mistaken, if not perhaps you might want to focus on nominations and give your supports, rather than writing this kind of unproductive reply. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:50, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
In the US several very important landmark court decisions have been made by the US Supreme Court which have altered the law of the land.--e.g. Roe versus Wade, Brown versus Board of Education. That said, I can't speculate how this decision will affect the gay rights in Argentina. Perhaps it would be more relevant if it came from the Argentine Supreme Court?--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
First of all, it's not true that if we allow one event of type X, we have to put on all events of type X. No news outlet works that way. Items should be judged on a case-by-case basis based on how much Wikipedia readers care and how important the event is, along with other criteria. Secondly, whether it is a "state," "national" or "international" event is a red herring -- the question is how many people does it effect, and by how much? The legalization of gay marriage in New York state would be a bigger event that the legalization of gay marriage in Greece because New York has more people and, this being the English-language Wikipedia, more readers are interested in New York than in Greece. That said, I think it is too early at this point to make any judgments about the Argentina case. As always, I say we follow the international media rather than try to make judgments ourselves. When this becomes major news in the international media, we post it. Until then, we can leave it. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Er, have to say a lot of these points are out of line with how things have been done in the past on ITN
  • We have a longstanding preference for posting national-scale legal and political events over those affecting sub-national units, even when on a raw "headcount" level they might be less impactful. For instance, there was no objection to a new Prime Minister of Iceland getting on the feed, even if it notionally affected 320,000 people. Nobody suggested that the election of, say, a new mayor of Bamako (pop 1.7 million and growing) was more notable.
  • Likewise, we accept and understand that adequately-updated articles are, by their very nature, more likely to relate to topics of interest to English-speaking editors than not (see also WP:WORLDVIEW). But there emphatically is not a preference for the "news-seeking tastes" of English speakers over non-English speakers.
  • ITN is concerned with encyclopedicity, not newsworthiness, which are not one and the same thing. As such, while the story-pickup preferences of the international media is vitally important in this section, they aren't the only thing that matters. The Tom (talk) 03:48, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree that my comments are not in accord with "how things have been done in the past on ITN," but I also maintain that many of the choices for ITN items have been so absurd as to border on the ridiculous -- not so much what we include, but what we exclude while including those obscure things. For example, the idea that we, with perhaps 50% U.S. readership, would exclude gay marriage in California while simultaneously including gay marriage in (theoretically) Andorra is mind-boggling. That's simply not how the news works, period. If you were to go into any newsroom of any news outlet in the English-speaking world and suggest that trade-off, you would be laughed out of the office. Not everyone is going to agree on the news value of every story, but for ITN editors to insist that they know better than the entire journalistic profession as to what constitutes news smacks of arrogance.
It's true that "headcount" is not the only factor to be considered when judging news value. It's one of several factors, including the degree to which those people are affected and the level of interest among others in the world in the event (and, of course, the quality of the Wikipedia content being linked to). I'm going to guess there is far more interest among Wikipedia readers in the prime minister of Iceland than the mayor of Bamako. But I'd also hazard that there is yet more interest among English Wikipedia users in the New Jersey and Virginia governors' races than in either Iceland or Bamako, and that the gubernatorial elections will affect more people and affect them to a great degree. There is no sense whatsoever in imposing a fixed rule like "national elections trump sub-national elections" when the world is a far more complex place than that.
I'm all for geographic diversity and, as I have said many times, I am not against including news from obscure corners of the world. However, the fact is this is the English-language Wikipedia, meaning most of our users will come from English-speaking countries, and, therefore, news from the U.S., U.K., Canada and Australia should be considered for ITN even if identical news from Macedonia or Chad or Kazakhstan would not make the cut. Think of it this way: If the French Wikipedia serves French speakers and the German Wikipedia serves German speakers, who will serve English speakers? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I raised how things have been done in the past not because they represent some sort of set-in-stone code, but because these debates have been had in the past and none of the points you raise are new. They have also continually been a minority position. That may change.
As for your comment that That's simply not how the news works, period. If you were to go into any newsroom of any news outlet in the English-speaking world and suggest that trade-off, you would be laughed out of the office. Let me say it again. ITN is not a news outlet. It is an entry point into an encyclopedia. We don't pretend to know journalism better than the entire journalistic profession. That's not what we're engaged in. The Tom (talk) 05:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
If the French Wikipedia serves French speakers and the German Wikipedia serves German speakers, who will serve English speakers? The difference here is that English is the most widely-used international language, especially on the internet. Thus, while the .fr wiki and the .de wiki might be justified in prioritizing news for their own user bases, in the .en wiki we should respect that many users are not native-English users from the US, UK, Australia, etc. (although I have no idea what percentage of .en Wiki users this is). I am not certain if the following statements are true or represent some Wikipedia policy, so I ask anyone better informed to comment, but I imagine that the .en wiki is effectively the 'default' wikipedia, not just because it has the most users, but because it has the most articles and is therefore the best place for information (leaving aside language preference). For example, I teach an international school where many of my students speak English fluently as a 2nd or 3rd language and they prefer the English Wikipedia. However, as a competent Russian speaker, I do use the .ru wiki for information on Russia-related topics sometimes because it covers those topics more thoroughly. The point is, it makes sense for the Russian wikipedia have some focus on Russia-related issues because that's where it can prove to be more useful than the English wikipedia. In any case, due to a number of Systemic Bias issues, the en.wiki pays a great deal of attention to topics related to the US, the UK, etc (not only in ITN) despite attempts to keeps WP broad and cosmopolitan in its scope.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:50, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Regarding The Tom's comments -- You're right, of course, that, as is so often said, "ITN is not a news service." But we seem to have gotten away from the original goal of ITN, which I believe was to bring attention to recently updated quality Wikipedia content, and it does appear that many ITN contributors are basing their judgment on their version of what is news. For example, a couple people who opposed the inclusion of the execution of the Beltway Sniper made comments to the effect that it "wasn't news," which was just plain incorrect, no matter what your views on whether that item was ITN material. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


November 14

ITN candidates for November 14

Nigerien election

Results, rather than holding of an election, are usually considered worthy of posting, assuming there is a suitably updated article. But when we reach this stage, can I suggest that we use in/of Niger, rather than the perfectly correct, but easily misunderstood, Nigerien. An encyclopaedia exists to inform and clarify, rather than to invite confusion by strict adherence to technical accuracy. Kevin McE (talk) 10:39, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Kevin's comment. Nigerian/Nigerien would be an easy thing to confuse, and Nigeria is certainly more recognizable.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:55, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I am aware that we post only when results are known, but we generally cannot forecast when results are due. In any case this particular election has been cancelled per the IFES election guide - Dumelow (talk) 12:12, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto

Suggested blurb: Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao (pictured) defeats Miguel Cotto of Puerto Rico, becoming the WBO welterweight champion and the first boxer to win seven world titles in seven different weight divisions. I am not familiar with boxing (or any sports, for that matter) so please let me know if anything is wrong with the blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:25, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, I think this makes sense as the front page of the BBC website is claiming "Victory in Las Vegas makes Filipino Manny Pacquiao the first boxer to win world titles in seven different weight divisions". I will leave it to the boxing experts to decide on the blurb. --candlewicke 07:45, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. The current blurb is too long; shortened a bit. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:59, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Arriving late with support, and can I suggest saying "...the first boxer to win a world title in seven different weight divisions."?--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:35, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Agree with John S: first seven seems superfluous, and may even appear to readers to be careless sentence composition. Kevin McE (talk) 10:32, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
So fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:36, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Sa'dah Insurgency

It was featured on 6 November with the following blurb: "The Sa'dah insurgency, a civil war in Yemen, spreads into Saudi Arabia." I guess this is the same thing? - Dumelow (talk) 19:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh, my bad. It was appearing recently because of new events, such as Saudi Arabian airstrikes. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:24, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


November 13

ITN candidates for November 13

Death of Bernard Kolélas

"A former leader of Congo's Ninja militias" "Bernard Kolelas was an MP in Congo at the time of his death and was a popular politician in the capital, Brazzaville". So he was still active... --candlewicke 03:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Waiting on Ted Kennedy comparisons right about... NOW. –Howard the Duck 03:44, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Local Mp Hmm...--yousaf465' 04:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
There's been considerable coverage (or maybe not). Anyway, pretty local.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:44, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Local MP? He was Prime Minister during the Civil War, according to the BBC link. MP at death meant he was still active at the top. --candlewicke 18:46, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Where is the substantial article update? Bernard Kolélas appears to contain a single sentence pertaining to his death ("In 2009, he spent several months in Paris for medical treatment before dying there on 12 November 2009 at the age of 76."). —David Levy 05:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
This is not the only time there hasn't been an update. Sometimes they are updated when they receive support. --candlewicke 23:22, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Water found on the Moon

Wow, Definite Support. The LCROSS article is quite good.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Big Support here too. Ben (talk) 18:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
With Support. Grsz11 18:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Support!xenotalk 20:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
  • I don't think there's a rationale at all for opposition, support. Wizardman 21:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
How do people feel about: "NASA announces that the LCROSS project has discovered evidence of water in the Cabeus crater on the Moon." ? I prefer to point to the actual new section rather than the entire article (which was itself ITNed on its impact with the Moon) - Dumelow (talk) 22:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
That sounds better. Would you do the honour? :-) --BorgQueen (talk) 22:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
No probs - posted. I also added an image of the LCROSS satellite (first time I have added an image, hopefully did it right) - Dumelow (talk) 22:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Apart from removing the old pictured tag obviously... - Dumelow (talk) 23:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Belated support, but I was wondering didn't we have the exact same story a couple of months ago when the Indian space probe crashed into the moon, or am I just confused? --Daviessimo (talk) 10:45, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Is this definitely true and without any form of exaggeration? It seems the sort of claim that should really be accurate. --candlewicke 23:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
This is poorly worded, the term discovery usually implies a first time occurrence of observation which is certainly not true. Water has been shown to exist on the Moon previously. This was about testing for substantial presence in certain cold regions. The phrase does mention the region, and that could be seen as weak justification, but I believe there was prior evidence that resulted in the selection of the spot in the first place. Kbrose (talk) 23:49, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


November 12

ITN candidates for November 12

Palau President Tommy Remengesau convicted

"Palau’s former President, Tommy Remengesau, has been found guilty of 12 ethics code violations". --candlewicke 10:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, Palau is a country of 20,000 people. I'm going to have to oppose--this story affects such a small number of people even it its a former head of state. Though I'm impressed with how good the article is. I'm sure there's recent former heads of state of much larger countries with much briefer articles.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:15, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Ghana mining tragedy

"This is the biggest mining tragedy that has ever hit Ghana". --candlewicke 19:58, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Is there an article? SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I created the article- Dompoase mine collapse-- Coasttocoast (talk) 07:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks ready. Several paragraphs and citations. 18 miners, including 14 women, are killed in Ghana's deadliest mining disaster. --candlewicke 09:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Support This tragedy is made more notable by the fact that it was an illegal mine and obviously had dangerous conditions. 14 of the victims were women; women working in a mine would be considered quite shocking by some people (I realize that sounds naive).--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I have posted it. I left out the bit about Ghana's deadliest mining disaster as the quote from the local police chief was "the biggest mining tragedy that has ever hit Ghana" which doesn't explicitly say that it was the deadliest (the biggest tragedy could be that so many women were killed for example) - Dumelow (talk) 20:42, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the current wording, though I might have left the 'including 14 women' in the blurb. However, I suppose it's not standard practice to do so and it might be viewed as bad precedent.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:34, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

US federal government building seizure

Alavi Foundation, perhaps? In any case, we need to wait until there is a verdict. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:42, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
"Allegedly" doesn't sound very certain. --candlewicke 09:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


November 11

ITN candidates for November 11

Death of Marwa El-Sherbini

A Russian-born German man is found guilty of fatally stabbing Marwa El-Sherbini in a court, an attack that caused uproar in the Muslim world, and sentenced to life imprisonment. (AP) Our article states: "The circumstances of El-Sherbini's death, who was pregnant at the time, resulted in widespread international reactions." More details can be found in Death_of_Marwa_El-Sherbini#International_reactions. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Support. The article is excellent and informative.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. This has been going on for some time and it certainly caused a fuss. --candlewicke 19:22, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:59, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

New dinosaur species

(AFP) The article Aardonyx needs some expansion though. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when expanded. --candlewicke 19:23, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Expanded. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Brazil blackout

A power shortage has apparently left 10's of millions in Sao Paulo and Rio without electricity, it also affected Paraguay (BBC). The problem was caused by a fault at the Itaipu Dam. No article that I could find (apart from a short mention on the Itaipu page) - Dumelow (talk) 11:14, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

According to the source, "No traffic lights or street lights were working"... That's pretty extreme. Leaning towards support, when Itaipu#November_2009_Power_Failure is expanded further. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Does seem pretty notable so I would support. However, there would need to be reliable sources regarding the scale of the blackout. I mean the article at the moment states that all of Paraguay lost power for 15mins, which is pretty shocking, although whether that is true is questionable --Daviessimo (talk) 16:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
There is an article here Brazil blackout 2009 JMiall 17:06, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. The bit about 'all of Paraguay being affected' is stated in this article but I'd also like to have a source with a more detailed account of the effects in Paraguay.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Support such an extreme loss of power across more than one country (although Brazil isn't exactly small on its own anyway). --candlewicke 19:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Support There are claims to be the second largest blackout in the world's history. Felipe Menegaz 22:32, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Still, the article 2009 Brazil and Paraguay blackout is currently too short. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
The article also claims to be about the 'Brazil and Paraguay blackout' but has a map of Brazil only. --Johnsemlak (talk) 00:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
There is no need for a map of Paraguay if is stated that the entire country was affected. Expanded article. Felipe Menegaz 01:16, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree the map is not a problem now. It looked inappropriate when the article was much shorter and it was the only image there. The article is now expanded and I support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:19, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Brazil and Paraguay suffer a blackout caused by failure in the eletric transmission network of the Itaipu Hydroelectric Dam (pictured). Felipe Menegaz 01:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Posting. Someone add the photo, please. --Tone 05:47, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I have rephrased it to mention that the Itaipu shut down for the first time ever. Hope it still reads OK - Dumelow (talk) 13:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


November 10

ITN candidates for November 10

Action of 10 November 2009

How about this skirmish between North and South Korean naval forces? It was just a short exchange of fire but seems fairly newsworthy (and resulted in some pretty serious damage) - Dumelow (talk) 11:06, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

It's certainly a region where a very minor incident can have serious political ramifications. However, it's difficult to measure the political fallout as yet.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:49, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

John Allen Muhammad

John Allen Muhammad, mastermind of the 2002 Beltway sniper attacks, is executed after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal to his death sentence. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:16, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment: We don't want to something like Featured articles are US-centric?.--yousaf465' 04:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I support adding this. This case got a lot of attention in 2002 and gets a lot of attention now. It's fair to assume that a lot of readers will come here to find out more about the shooting. 83.80.18.68 (talk) 07:39, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I would hardly call this news, and this was expected by many. --PlasmaTwa2 09:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the execution was expected. So are elections, but they are still mentioned. Why make an exception for this execution? 83.80.18.68 (talk) 09:37, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Many execution take place all over the world everyday, we can't include each and every one of them, unless it's a really important one. Election are totally different item.--yousaf465' 09:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
This is the execution after highly important and notable crime. I would rank this in the same category as Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma bombing. The crime makes the culprit makes the execution notable, in both cases. 83.80.18.68 (talk) 11:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Just one execution.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:49, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment The article is quite good, it must be said. I agree with 83.80 that the crime was significant. --Johnsemlak (talk) 16:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Not sure, this just reminds me that shootings in the US are quite common (more were killed in several attacks last week than were in this incident) so do we feature the execution of every person who kills people there with a gun? --candlewicke 19:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. According to a senior journalist on Ireland's most listened to radio programme, executions take place stateside every week. This is just more high-profile. Non-notable.  Cargoking  talk  20:24, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Yes, people are executed in the U.S. all the time, but the sniper shootings were a huge deal when they were happening. Therefore, there's undoubtedly a tremendous amount of interest among many Wikipedia users, even if some other Wikipedia users are not interested in it. There's undoubtedly more interest among our readers in this execution than the German courtroom stabbing. The McVeigh execution would undoubtedly be ITN material, and while this doesn't quite reach that level of notoriety, it certainly can't be said that no U.S. execution is notable. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:20, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Further comment. I'd like to point out that there are more than 5,000 Google News items on this story, including the New York Times, Washington Post (front page), Chicago Tribune, USA Today (front page) -- basically the entire American media. If you want to point out that this isn't news in your part of the world, that's fine. If you want to say it isn't as big of a story as some other ITN items, OK. But to say it "isn't news," period, (or "isn't notable") means you either think you know more about what "news" is than the entire American journalistic profession or you -- hate to say it -- don't know what you're talking about on this one. No personal attack intended. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:29, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I am not aware of how much coverage these executions normally get in the American media. They may be regularly on the front pages? --candlewicke 19:48, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
As you noted above, executions occur regularly in the U.S., especially in the South. It's rare that an execution would make the front page, except perhaps in the local newspaper of the small town where the victim was from or in a state where executions are rare. That this execution was on the front page even of USA Today indicates it was quite a unique event. The last time I remember an execution getting so much attention was when they executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. I think your question would have been a good one to ask when the item was nominated in place of trying to make a judgment without knowing all of the context. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
(re-indent) Mwalcoff, I appreciate where you're coming from on this. Certainly, the crime for which the the man was executed for was highly notable and not 'just another shooting'. The execution did get a lot of coverage but it seems to me that after being on the front page of US papers for a day it pretty much fell off--I checked the NY Times and WashPost websites afterwards and they had no mention of the execution about a day a later (correct me if I'm wrong). So it was a front-page headline in the US for a day. That's evidence of notability but not enough by itself. It was an expected execution and didn't generate any particular controversy, compared with the Timothy McVeigh execution where there was a lot of fuss--for example who would get to witness it. I'm not saying Timothy McVeigh should be a minimum benchmark but it has been a comparison. I think one thing going against this story perhaps is that the shootings for which this man was convicted happened quite a while ago and people may not remember how significant they were (they certainly generated substantial world-wide news coverage). Still, IMO we got this one right. There's always going to be close calls on ITN. I'll also add that I find this less significant that the conviction for the stabbing in Germany, as that verdict+sentencing had the potential of causing an international outcry and could have severely strained relations between Germany and Egypt as well as other Muslim nations; and there was at least a perception that the life sentence was not certain.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Robert Enke

I'm surprised this hasn't been proposed yet. The goalkeeper of the German national team, Robert Enke, has died. His last match for Germany was in August, against Azerbaijan. Being a German international footballer, he was most definitely "in a high ranking office of power" and "a very important figure in [his] field of expertise." 83.80.18.68 (talk) 07:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Support, especially since his death—confirmed as suicide—was an unexpected one. "Enke's death came at a time when he was undisputed number one for his club and had also regained this title for Germany." [23] --BorgQueen (talk) 09:32, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Strong support: as par above queens' comments. --yousaf465' 09:34, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I would support this if he were considered a leading goalkeeper in the world (i.e. Buffon, Iker Casillas, Edwin van der Sar), or an otherwise world-famous athlete. This is hardly one of the more famous footballers in the world, even if he was a very good one.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
If he's the number one goalkeeper for Germany, one of the leading football nations in the world, he is a leading goalkeeper by any definition of the word. 83.80.18.68 (talk) 09:59, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Not necessarily. Enke doesn't even make the top 10 goalkeepers of 2008. And that is just one position in football. I doubt he'd be considered one the best 100 footballers in the world.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I, for one, have never heard of him and I am casual fan of soccer. I don't think that being a goaltender on one of the world's top teams makes him a very important figure in his field of expertise. There are plenty of players on teams like Germany, Italy, England, Brazil, etc., and to claim that they are all in a high ranking office of power and important figures in their field because of the team they play on makes no sense. --PlasmaTwa2 10:07, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
He was not a German goaltender, he was the number one goalkeeper of the national team that reached the final of the last European Cup and the semifinal of the last World Cup. He is a highly notable footballer and his death is extremely unexpected and tragic. I honestly see no criteria that he doesn't meet. 83.80.18.68 (talk) 11:29, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
To be honest I don't think how good he was or who he played for is important in this situation because the repecussions of his death are significant nonetheless. Germany have cancelled their match against Chile, Barcelona held a minutes silence and dedicated their victory over Leonesa to him and Tenerife will do something similar at the weekend. When you consider that you can see how much his death has affected the footballing world in Europe at least --Daviessimo (talk) 16:34, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, remembrances are fairly frequent occasions before football matches (Bobby Robson earlier this year), as are cancelled matches (a match was cancelled in L1 in France last week). I would support if the effects were more widespread--Barcelona and Tenerife are clubs he's played for so it's hardly surprising they've reacted. The canceled match is a friendly; it would be far more significant if a competitive FIFA match were canceled.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment--The article is very good, well sourced, and has a substantial update.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:13, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. It is not often footballers or athletes at this level commit suicide while still involved in sport and the world reacts the way it does. Reuters India Portugal The New Zealand Herald The Age CNN XinhuaTaipei Times (says that Angela Merkel sent a "very personal" letter to the family) "Robert Enke's death has cast a long shadow over German football", according to The Guardian. "A Goalie's Lonely Death Leaves Questions", according to The New York Times. His death seems to have also affected China, Australia, New Zealand, United States, etc.

For the relevance of German football internationally, the article Germany national football team shows Germany as one of the significant teams throughout the history of this sport — "Germany has won the World Cup three times, behind only Brazil (five titles) and Italy (four titles). It has finished as runners-up four times, two more than any other side. In terms of semifinal appearances, Germany leads with 11, one more than Brazil's 10, which had participated in two more tournaments. In the last 14 World Cup tournaments, Germany has always reached at least the stage of the last eight teams." Also, "Germany has also won the European Championship three times (France and Spain are the only other multiple-time winners with two titles), and finished as runners-up three times as well. The Germans have qualified for every European Championship tournament except for the very first EC they entered in 1968." --candlewicke 19:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Enke has generated considerable coverage admittedly but sports-related items get lots of coverage in sports media. Some of the arguments being used here are irrelevant or hyperbole: the previous success of German football has little to do with Enke and his death certainly hasn't 'affected' the US or China (or few countries outside Germany for that matter).--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Support was adjudged the best goalkeeper in the German league last season. Bundesliga is one of hte top five leagues YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 20:55, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
The sources also say he was captain of his team. Is that not an important role along with being a first choice goalkeeper? His death is still an international topic of discussion after several days, this being a detailed article from The Indian Express dated three hours ago. He performed in several countries, including Portugal, Turkey, Spain. "He was the club’s goalkeeper, its captain, its most likely player to make Germany’s World Cup team next year". The circumstances of his death are also discussed. The last line is "And so along with his widow, a club and the national team also mourn for a man who took his own life near the peak of his sporting career". That's just one article I found with little effort, there are thousands from around the world available on Google alone. --candlewicke 10:05, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Cyclone Phyan going to hit India

According to report this is something upto a scale of level 5 or 6. Article ?Arabian Sea cyclone strikes India tonight.--yousaf465' 09:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Here is the article Cyclone Phyan, needs some updates. According to Pakistani Met department it is not going to affect Pakistan alot. Only few showers expected in Southern Punjab and Sindh.--yousaf465' 09:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


November 9

ITN candidates for November 9

El Salvador floods and mudslides

At least 140 people are killed by floods and mudslides in El Salvador.

Support. Article needs updated death toll. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:09, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Article has been lengthened somewhat but that 140 figurer is way too jump at the moment for me to update to it.©Geni 02:13, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Still nobody up to the task ? --yousaf465' 08:26, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Up to 9 refs and definently post stub. I think thats the best you are going to get.©Geni 23:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Also the BBC confirmed that 140 people died. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:22, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
This should really go up soon. BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 05:17, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately the article is not the best but this really must go up. Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Central Railway Station flood

A ruptured water pipe floods the Central Railway Station metro station, the busiest station on the Helsinki metro, possibly closing it from traffic for several months.[24] JIP | Talk 19:37, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure this is notable enough. This will certainly cause some incoveniences for the passengers but hardly a disaster. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Vitaly Ginzburg

Vitaly Ginzburg, a Nobel Prize-winning Russian physicist and one of the fathers of the Soviet hydrogen bomb, dies in Moscow, aged 93. [25][26] Does anyone think he meets our death criteria? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:58, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd support if the article was much longer. Besides, the update is one sentence at the moment. So, oppose for now. --Tone 14:08, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments but my question was: Does anyone think he meets our death criteria? Of course, the article has to be updated more than that. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
One of the most prominent figures in the field? Yes, I believe he was. --Tone 14:16, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The death of a Nobel prize winner is notable enough, IMO.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:18, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Support once the article has a better update - Dumelow (talk) 16:51, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The death section has been expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks good to me. Perhaps "Russian physicist and Nobel Prize winner, Vitaly Ginzburg dies of a cardiac arrest at the age of 93". Perhaps someone can word it better or find a way to include the fact that he is one of the fathers of Russia's H bomb - Dumelow (talk) 17:07, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
How about: Russian physicist Vitaly Ginzburg, a Nobel laureate and one of the fathers of the Soviet hydrogen bomb, dies in Moscow, aged 93. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:12, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Leave out the cause of death. It adds nothing to his notability.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Good. Posting. --Tone 17:20, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Chiming in. The death of two elderly academics (Ginzburg and Levi-Strauss) making ITN within a week strikes me as out of the ordinary. Has there been a policy change? I thought death notices were frowned about for the main ITN unless it was "big news". That is, people didn't want ITN to turn into an obituary section when there's a "recent deaths" page. Nobel Laureates die all the time. Borlaug and Bohr in September. Dausset in June. Grainger and Furchgott in May, etc, etc. I'm not contesting this particular entry, I'm just asking if there has been a change in criteria. Cheers.DavidRF (talk) 20:39, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, the death of a noble prize winner is far more notable than half the cruft that gets into ITN such as sports and actors --UltraMagnusspeak 21:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
With the amount of Nobel Prize winners each year (around 10), I'm somewhat surprised that criteria alone is enough to make their deathes notable enough for ITN. Just my two cents. --TorsodogTalk 22:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree that not all Nobels will probably get in, but hte superconductivity work he did with Landau marks him as one of the upper echelon of Nobel prize winners YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 01:07, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Ashmolean Museum

UK's oldest public museum reopens after renovations. --candlewicke 03:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Leaning towards support. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Update? In principle I support but I'm not sure how much there will be to update. The article itself ok.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:21, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Not sure... this museum is not as famous as Louvre, British museum or Egyptian museum, I'd say. Or Neues Museum that we had on ITN some time ago. --Tone 15:36, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I thought about that. I guess the notability is that it is the UK's oldest public museum and was established in the 1600s.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:05, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I guess the fact that they ruined a lovely old Victorian building making it look like something out of a 70s sci-fi movie should probably go in, but I am not sure. --UltraMagnusspeak 19:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
So that is a No then? Or at least a Not Sure? --candlewicke 21:36, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

4th Forum on China-Africa Cooperation

Talk move below, where the issue was first raised. Yug (talk) 04:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


November 8

ITN candidates for November 8

Hurricane Ida (2009)

El Salvador declares a state of emergency after at least 40 people have been killed in Hurricane Ida. (BBC) The article currently needs some more update though. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 16:45, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I am Opposed to Hurricane Ida going up yet as it didnt cause the severe rains nor the Deaths according to the BBC Article which you are using as a source.

Ida, which passed to the east of El Salvador three days ago, is not thought to have caused the severe rains. A spokesman for the US National Hurricane Center in Florida said the rains were caused by a separate, low pressure system.

Jason Rees (talk) 16:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. My mistake. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
In any case, the event is appropriate for ITN inclusion. 2009 Salvador floods, maybe? --Tone 21:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Or, due to mud, 2009 Salvador floods and mudslides maybe? Just like former ITNs 2009 Brazilian floods and mudslides and 2009 Messina floods and mudslides. --candlewicke 03:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Actully guys theres a lot of confusion about these deaths - as different sources are saying different things.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jason Rees (talkcontribs)
Article is here. Please contribute. --candlewicke 03:30, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
For that this might be helpful El Salvador floods, mudslides kill 124, 60 missing.--yousaf465' 08:29, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Forum on China-Africa Cooperation

Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao pledged to give African countries $US10 billion ($A10.97 billion) in concessional loans as a two-day Forum on China-Africa Cooperation opened in Egypt on Sunday. He also pledged to cancel debts of African countries to increase his country's role in the continent. According to the BBC, "The Chinese leader is attending a two-day forum on China-Africa cooperation in Sharm el-Sheikh, attended by officials from 50 nations". "Several heads of state and government are attending the meeting, including the Presidents of Sudan and Zimbabwe". --candlewicke 16:27, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Any opposes? --candlewicke 03:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Article needs some expansion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:21, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards support, when expanded further. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I have updated this page. Support Very notable event for Africa in quite some time.
Strong Support. Very notable geopolitical powerplay YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 01:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, though I do feel the article could be improved further at this point.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Strong support too: This event should be in the main page, since he show all Africa meeting with its 2nd trade parter and FASTLY increasing investor, China. Strategically, it's a critical move, between African raw materials, Chinese industries, and world customers. The article Sino-african cooperation deeply explain the question. Last, this occur only once every 3 years, while representing 2 billions people. Yug (talk) 15:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Sentence proposals
How about: Speaking at Sharm el-Sheikh's Forum on China-Africa Cooperation, China's Premier Wen Jiabao pledges $10 billion loans to Africa to increase Sino-african cooperation. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:59, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Edited a bit: At the 4th Forum on China-Africa Cooperation in Sharm el-Sheikh, China's Premier Wen Jiabao pledges US$10 billion in soft loans to 49 African leaders for Sino-African cooperation.
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Can we modify Wen Jiabao's title to a more readable "Chinese premier" instead of the "Premier of the People's Republic of China"?? Just for ease of reading. Colipon+(Talk) 13:19, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Please see this edit. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


November 7

ITN candidates for November 7

Andorra

Has had its population significantly reduced. It is news around the world. One of them is Portuguese though. --candlewicke 02:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

That is not that significant. We should have some respect for the dead people.--yousaf465' 14:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

2009 Japan Series

In baseball, the Yomiuri Giants defeat the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters to win their 21st Japan Series. Japan TimesYomiuri --TorsodogTalk 05:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The only source in the article calls this Japan's version of the World Series. The World Series was posted. So I think it makes sense to support. I was however under the impression that the World Series did mean the actual world... --candlewicke 00:42, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I think the (american) World Series and not the Japan Series is included in ITN/R because a) it's of greater interest to readers on an .en Wiki; and b) the American MLB is considered a stronger competition than the Japanese league (much like the UEFA champions league is considered stronger than the Copa Libertadores), and thus the World Series represents the highest level event in the sport of baseball. This article, as you hinted at, needs expansion and further sourcing. This is unfortunately a very common problem with these sports-related articles. Finally, it should be mentioned that there is an international Asia Series for professional baseball teams from Japan, China, Taiwan, and Korea. However, in Japan I imagine it's considered anti-climatic because Japanese teams always win it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This comment seems to be filled with a whole lot of opinion about the NPB. The statement "World Series represents the highest level event in the sport of baseball" smacks of WP:NPOV, and your last statement seems almost as if it was sarcasm that I may have missed? It is as anticlimactic that a Japanese team wins the Japan Series as it is that a US team wins the World Series (Read: not at all). --TorsodogTalk 05:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I meant that the Asia Series is perhaps anti-climatic, because a Japanese team always wins it , and it happens after the end of the Japan Series, which is presumably considered a tougher competition. No sarcasm intended. As to the matter of the relative strength of American baseball versus Japanese baseball, I completely agree that it's very subjective and difficult to quantify. If I strayed from NPOV I apologize.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I misunderstood. My apologies. And no worries about the NPOV—it is understandable. However, I think the NPB is more relevant than ever in US baseball considering the recent high-profile ball players from Japan (hell, Matsui won World Series MVP this year!). --TorsodogTalk 05:35, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
All cool then. I will support this item when it's sourced adequately and expanded. It still requires more sources, and IMO should have more prose text. We cover a lot of sports news from the 'Anglo' zone (i.e. soccer, rugby, cricket, US sports, etc) and this certainly is an example of major sports event in a region we don't cover adequately, and one that is generally ignored by western media.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I am afraid that the article needs more citations and prose. After removing all the tables and lists it will be just a very short stub. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on it as much as possible. I finished the summary of the last game, but sadly I don't know if I'll be able to flesh out the 5 other games fast enough. --TorsodogTalk 08:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, I don't think I can support this item. Surely this is just the national league of a sport which is played (and followed) in very few countries (USA, Canada, Cuba, Japan)? We already include the "World" Series but only because it is seen as being the highest level of the game. I appreciate that this is a big thing for the Japanese but so is Premier League football in the UK (and around the world) and we don't (and probably shouldn't) include that. I think that including the highest level competition for a country when that is the seen as the world leading event is fine (ie the Super Bowl or the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship) but including it as a national league when it isn't seen as the leading event doesn't seem right. This would be so much easier if baseball actually had a world cup... - Dumelow (talk) 13:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
World Baseball Classic. –Howard the Duck 03:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I second that. --Tone 14:27, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I third that. If there is a third. ;)--yousaf465' 14:35, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually in regards to the Premier League there was a discussion going on on the discussion page of WT:ITN/R about in future posting the winners of the major European Leagues in a single blurb at the end of the domestic season. I certainly support posting the Premier League winner--it's one of the most followed competitions in the world. To not post it simply because it's a 'domestic' competition is a major omission IMO.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand how Japan (or any country) can have a version of anything called the "World" Series. Does this mean the World Series is not international? I notice the two teams mentioned on the Main Page are American. The 2009 World Series article calls one the champion of a "National League" and the other the champion of an "American League". Why not have the Japanese champions too if baseball is as popular there? --candlewicke 14:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Why do they have a Rugby League 'World Cup' when the sport played by a small handful of nations and is of marginal interest even in several of those? Some things don't make sense. The World Series has had its politically incorrect name for over a century; for better or worse it's become a tradition that a lot of people don't want to change.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I can appreciate this argument, but I don't think the comparison to the Premier League is completely appropriate here. The NPB and Japanese baseball in general has had a growing impact on MLB, a major US sport, for the past two decades. Is there anyway we can at least compromise maybe by including the Giants' win in the same sentence as the Yankees win? --TorsodogTalk 17:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea. --candlewicke 17:16, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This I would support, if they are indeed connected in such a way. --Tone 18:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I support a separate listing in ITN for the Japan Series. Both events are important and interesting internationally. GreenGourd (talk) 18:21, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I support Torsodog's suggestion; Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:30, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes that seems like a good idea as the two events are close together and must account for the majority of supporters of the sport across the world - Dumelow (talk) 20:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Great! Good discussion and perfect compromise. Thanks everyone! --TorsodogTalk 23:18, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
can we move it up a bit. it got added as last item which will be gone next. thanks -- Ashish-g55 23:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
That is the point of the compromise. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
We will just have to be as slow as possible to add the next item. :) I am going to leave a note at ITNR since presumably Japanese baseball is as important any year as it is this year. Next year it should have more time hopefully. --candlewicke 01:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

David Haye wins WBA heavyweight championship

David Haye defeats Nikolai Valuev to win the WBA Heavyweight title.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment I'm not sure how much I support this actually. It's one of nearly a half-dozen 'world' heavyweight boxing titles.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure how biased the rest of it is but the BBC says "With his win, the Londoner becomes the first Briton to win a world heavyweight crown since Lennox Lewis retired in 2003. In addition, Haye is also only the second former cruiserweight champion to win a portion of the heavyweight crown, after four-time champion Evander Holyfield." Also claims he is "only the third Briton to win a world heavyweight title since Bob Fitzsimmons lost his crown to James J Jeffries in 1899." Is all that particularly important? --candlewicke 02:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually this is interesting and is taken from before his win. I think I will support unless someone else has a good reason to oppose. "Valuev has never been floored in 52 fights and has only ever been beaten once". A "freak show" that is interesting to non-boxing fans sounds good enough. --candlewicke 02:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I have also inserted his image which, with support, should end the issue involving the alleged gunman in Texas and remove Thaksin Shinawatra. --candlewicke 02:19, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a boxing expert, but it doesn't seem like this would be considered a mega fight, like the upcoming Pacquiao v Cotto fight. Was it really that big of fight that it needs to go on ITN?
Well, it's a heavyweight title fight. 20 years ago this would have been one of the world's top sports events--traditionally the heavyweight division has got a lot more attention than the lower weight divisions. However, it was the WBA championship, only one of five heavyweight titles in the world. So he's hardly an undisputed champion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Any more supports/objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 06:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I suspect the image might be copyvio. The uploader is just 16 years old according to his user page and the image quality is a bit too professional. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I know I nominated this item but I'm truly on the fence on it. The sport of boxing is such a mess that it's hard for people who don't follow it closely to know what really matters. This fight was a major headline in Russia and the UK, but outside there I'm finding sporadic, and generally non prominent coverage of this fight: Gazetta Dello Sport, ABC.com.au. I've gotta say if you go to mainstream news outlets you often have to search a bit to find coverage this fight, if any at all. I'm not saying that should mean we don't most it, but I can't say that 'international interest' is a strong argument for this one.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:17, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Object, too many splinter groups in boxing. And boxing is rigged with how the fight schedule is done, not that F1 isn't. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 01:11, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


November 6

ITN candidates for November 6

Madagascar

Assuming that this is the formation of a new national government then I support this item when we have an article, as it's standard practice to report national election results or equivalent events. However, I could't tell from the BBC article what's really going on--I'd certainly like the WP article to be clearer. Does Madagascar have a Prime Minister, a President, both, or what? The BBC article simply used the term 'leader'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Death of Prabhash Joshi

I was quite intrigued by this one, but the article on Joshi is not particularly good, and fails the update requirement. I think in the case of deaths of famous persons the article should be excellent. Therefore, I oppose for now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Military incident in Russia

Military crashes are unfortunately common in Russia. It's a fairly big on in terms of deaths but I oppose. There's been tragedies with more deaths that have gone unreported here (I believe the 9 deaths are unconfirmed but it certainly seems that all the passengers must have died).--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:00, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment: well the causality figure is bit high we need to discuss it further.--yousaf465' 09:46, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
There are now 11 confirmed deaths.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:32, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Another shooting in U.S.A

Just heard that shooting has occured somwhere in U.S, 8 people have been injuired uptil now. It a office building.--yousaf465' 17:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

2 have died , in Florida.--yousaf465' 17:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I have created a stub: 2009 Orlando shooting. Offliner (talk) 18:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
BBC say 'at least' one death. Doesn't look notable enough. Oppose for now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Bloody hell. Two of them now. Unfortunately I oppose this. Shootings happen everyday, in nearly every country. This is quite non-notable compared to the preceding incident.  Cargoking  talk  19:11, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
This incident is much more notable. Shootings are evidently every day events in U.S.A. Not so in Japan. --candlewicke 21:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Well yes this is true never heard of shooting in japan, nor even in any S.E Asian countries.--yousaf465' 09:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)


November 5

ITN candidates for November 5

Nord Stream

An extensive article. Posting soon, unless someone objects. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:03, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The genome of the domestic horse

[27] I suppose the article horse is to be updated. Any supports? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Scientifically, it sounds important, but is the horse one of the first animals to have its genome mapped? Support if it is. -PlasmaTwa2 18:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
According to List_of_sequenced_eukaryotic_genomes#Animals this has already been done for quite a lot of mammals. We do have a picture of the horse in question though File:Twilight20008-300.jpg - Dumelow (talk) 22:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I wouldn't count the 2x coverage genomes - they aren't good for studying a species, only for comparing selection pressure. Still, it's 13 other mammal genome sequences with similar quality. Btw the horse genome sequence has been publicly available since January 2007. Narayanese (talk) 10:35, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Foreign relations of Somalia

Somalia's main export market reopened "Saudi Arabia has lifted a ban on the import of livestock from Somalia imposed nine years ago to prevent the spread of Rift Valley fever". "The decision was well received across Somalia as hundreds of thousands of farmers heavily rely on animal exports to the oil-rich Middle East". --candlewicke 10:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Leaning towards support. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:20, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Not sure. These sorts of bans or overturns of such bans happen quite often. Are we going to report every bilateral change in trade for all counties in the world?--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:26, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Eh, I'm not sure. If it had been a more significant period of time maybe. Grsz11 15:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Nine years is quite a long time for a country's main export market. Somalia probably noticed all that money going amiss. And this is the sort of thing that is usually posted, yes. --candlewicke 21:47, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Caster Semenya

"Unconditional apology" given, entire ASA board, including president Leonard Chuene, suspended. --candlewicke 22:01, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Oppose The only thing that might be worthy of itn is when they finally announce her gender, and only if it sets a precident in sports. I don't think there is anything notable about a national organization apologizing. --PlasmaTwa2 00:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Not particularly notable. Cheating is quite common in athletics, unfortunately YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 00:47, 6 November 2009 (U--PlasmaTwa2 18:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)TC)
Support Well it was a different kind cheating. It has casused quite a uproar. Now we have a apology.--yousaf465' 02:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I do consider the Semenya affair to be quite notable, but this particular event isn't enough IMO. I'd say we post it if, for example, she's stripped of her medals/titles.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:03, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
What cheating? Were they not suspended because of how they handled the affair? Where is the admission of cheating or the indication that she will be stripped of her medals? --candlewicke 10:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Obviously it's just an accusation of cheating at this point, but a fairly notable accusation. I agree though we should report this when some verdict or similar result is reached.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Saudi-Yemen fighting

The Yemeni Sa'ada insurgency spills into Saudi Arabia for the first time since erupting in 2004.--TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. Needs a category, though. --Tone 17:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Support if this is true. --candlewicke 18:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Well we need more support before any decision.--yousaf465' 04:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:33, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
We need a better blurb than that. "Spills"..? I would prefer a more formal tone. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
"spreads"?--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
"Spreads" will do fine. And what on earth is "Sa'ada insurgency"? Before you tell me "click on the link", I think readers should be able to get some idea from the blurb before they read the article. The current blurb is simply too cryptic to an average reader. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
"Insurgency in northern Yemen spreads into Saudi Arabia..." Not sure, not happy with that. Not good a blurbs. "Sa'dah insurgency" is apparently the name of the conflict, just like "Iraq War". Just not that well-known of a conflict.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
How about "The Sa'dah insurgency, a civil war in Yemen, spreads ..." --BorgQueen (talk) 16:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok for me. I might drop the "for the first time since erupting in 2004" bit. It doesn't greatly contribute to the item's notability. It's notable now because it spread into Saudi Arabia--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

More diplomatic expulsions

It must be a hard time to be a diplomat. Further to the recent Fijian expulsions Morocco has expelled a diplomat from Sweden (BBC) and Thailand has recalled its ambassador from Cambodia. I am aware that we don't want to be flooding ITN with diplomatic news but maybe these are notable enough as well (certainly the second of the two might be) - Dumelow (talk) 13:20, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Support the second one, but it will be tougher than usual since you will have to create Cambodia–Thailand relations. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I have added an update to this section: Foreign_relations_of_Thailand#Cambodia. My main source (which I didn't state above for some reason) is BBC - Dumelow (talk) 17:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:20, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
"Thailand has recalled its ambassador from Cambodia in protest of the Cambodian government's appointment of Thai ex-leader Thaksin Shinawatra as an economic adviser"--yousaf465' 04:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks but Cambodia recalled its ambassador as well. Nevermind, posted already. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:27, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

World Series

Oppose. US sport, not British enough for ITN. We need more cricket stories. Rugby, too. Nutmegger (talk) 04:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
WP:ITNSPORTS. British irrelevant. Besides cricket and rugby are featured much more often than baseball. Grsz11 04:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I believe you missed some sarcasm. -CWY2190(talkcontributions) 05:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
We will not perpetuate ITN's British bias by putting this baseball stuff on ITN. Is there a cricket test somewhere in Sri Lanka or a rugby game in New Zealand we can post instead? Nutmegger (talk) 07:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, there's this and this. I'd say we add these two instead. Hideki Matsui is way too American anyway. –Howard the Duck 07:13, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
To put a serious end to this particular sub-thread, actually several sports events recently, including the ICC Champions Trophy (a cricket tourney), the NRL Rugby League Final, and the Super League Grand Final in rugby were nominated but not posted in ITN. Two of those events are listed on ITN/R, but none were posted due to lack of suitable article updates (I think most were inadequately referenced and had limited prose text). I don't know if that represents any kind of trend. The World Series article, to its credit, appears thoroughly written up and referenced. Personally, I'm not particularly bothered about posting the World Series--whatever. (unless the Cardinals win)--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. The Yankees always win. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Support per WP:ITNSPORTS, but I am really ignorant when it comes to sports, someone will have to tell me if the article is properly updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. I am completely confused by baseball but I think it has been updated sufficiently (each game has a good summary and the final result is mentioned). How about: "The New York Yankees defeat the Philadelphia Phillies 4–2 and win their 27th World Series"? as it is customary to mention the score - Dumelow (talk) 10:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
It is customary to mention the score? Are you sure...? Posting anyway. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I thought it was for all sport items. I must be misremembering - Dumelow (talk) 11:16, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Guess what. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 :-) It's a standard practice not to put results there. --Tone 12:55, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep, definitely wrong! Thanks for correcting me - Dumelow (talk) 13:10, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually for a single game, like the Super Bowl or World Cup Final it seems to make sense. But for a serious it could be confusing (ie does 4-2 mean games in the series or runs in the final game?). Deserted Cities (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Fort Hood

I think it needs some rewording, but thats the best I can come up with. The ending just reflects the possibility of three gunmen. The article could use a little upgrading, as all it really has is a paragraph and three responses, but I see no reason why this shouldn't go up. --PlasmaTwa2 23:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Right, sorry. I forgot. I added it to the original. --PlasmaTwa2 00:09, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, in line with similar unfortunate incidents. Plasma, I see what you mean by rewording, I tweaked it a little, but I still think it needs a tad bit of work. Article is in decent shape, but I'd prefer just a little more content, if possible. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, with rational similar to Spencer's; attack which claimed the lives of many people in the largest US military base, should be featured if it happened in another country too. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 01:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Aren't we getting obligatory anti-U.S. opposes for this one? I'm surprised this is not under AFD this late. –Howard the Duck 01:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, this seems important and the article is good enough. Posting shortly - Dumelow (talk) 01:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I used "A gunman opens fire at Fort Hood, a United States Army base in Texas, killing twelve people and injuring 31." based on the tagline the BBC and some others had used. If anyone comes up with a better one I will be more than happy to change it. Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 01:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, though we haven't posted a recent bombing in Pakistan which killed more people.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:42, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
This is already been posted. --yousaf465' 02:47, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The Rawalpindi bombing hasn't been posted.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:27, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
No the Fort shooting. Well it wasn't posted due the quality of article.--yousaf465' 04:51, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I am tempted to use Major Nidal Malik Hasan's picture, but since he is still alive WP:BLP considerations might be an issue. Btw, it is relatively rare that a spree shooter survives, he might provide some insights to their psychology. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I did consider putting Hasan up at the pic but thought that there might be some complaints so played it safe - Dumelow (talk) 10:09, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes we should avoid posting his image.--yousaf465' 14:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The suspect's image has now been posted by David Levy... --candlewicke 22:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I hadn't seen this discussion. I've self-reverted.
Can someone please elucidate the BLP-related concerns?
Also note that Wikinews has the image on its main page. —David Levy 23:18, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The Fort Hood shooting article calls him "suspect"/"alleged" perpetrator per this discussion. I am not sure if it is a good idea to use his picture until a trial has resulted in a verdict. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:42, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the picture presents any BLP problems with the "suspect pictured language. The objections seem to boil down to taste. However, given the discussion BorgQueen linked to, should we say "a gunman" or is it better to say "a shooting...kills and injures"? Although we don't say his name, it is clear from the context who is being assigned responsibility for the shooting in Wikipedia's voice.--chaser (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
That would be going overboard, in my opinion. Clearly, the bullets didn't fire themselves. —David Levy 00:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
As Chaser noted, I was careful to refer to Hasan as the "suspect" and "suspected gunman" (a verified fact). In that context, his image currently appears in our article, in Wikinews' article, on Wikinews' main page, and throughout the visual news media. —David Levy 00:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for my delayed reply; I was offline for a while. If you are sure, please don't let me stand in your way. I trust your judgment. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, BorgQueen.
Before I proceed, does anyone else object (given the "suspect" wording)? —David Levy 17:00, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I've switched back. —David Levy 21:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm very concerned at featuring images of suspects of crimes. DYK has a rule for good reason prohibiting hooks from focusing on negative aspects of living people – this ought to apply doubly for ITN, where information is new and fluid, and the facts of the matter could well turn out to be otherwise. It may be nearly certain in this case that the suspect is the guilty party, but as a general rule it reeks. It is not an encyclopaedia's place to judge or imply guilt; I would very much like to remove the image, as it is unnecessary to tell the news story and sets a dangerous precedent.  Skomorokh, barbarian  00:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Do not, do not do not do not put his image on the Main page. That is an incredibly bad idea. Keegan (talk) 00:10, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes. For a news organization to display this is one thing; for an encyclopedia to do so is an entirely different matter. "Bad idea" doesn't even begin to cover this. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 00:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This is an awful idea. David Levy's revert was not on my behalf, either, because I did not want it. Although the formatting fix would have been nice. :) Please remove this image now. Do it now and then discuss it further if you insist, but no harm comes from having no image, while a massive amount of harm could come from leaving it up and being incorrect about it. Remove the image. kmccoy (talk) 00:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I misread David Levy's revert, and my error was pointed out to me. I apologize for the misunderstanding. kmccoy (talk) 00:17, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
To clarify for others, I restored the previous image that Kmccoy attempted to revert to (without realizing that it had been deleted). —David Levy 00:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't agree that correctly referring to an individual as a suspect implies guilt, but I respect the above concerns and would not have placed the image back on the main page if they had been expressed at that point. —David Levy 00:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I would have made a comment in the discussion before editing, but I looked at Template_talk:In_the_news, which redirects to Wikipedia talk:In the news, and didn't see any discussion. I was unaware of the existence of the separate discussion pages, and since there seemed to be a fair amount of discussion on the page I looked at, I made the faulty assumption that the discussion simply hadn't happened. I apologize for that, though to be fair, it's a bit of a path to follow through to find the proper discussion page. kmccoy (talk) 00:37, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
To be clear, I don't fault you for reverting (with or without first commenting here). I switched back to the Hasan image because I believed that the concerns had been addressed. The emergence of further concerns (whether yours or those of the above users) necessitated that the image once again be taken down. I pointed you to this page to facilitate such discussion, not to complain that you hadn't participated. —David Levy 00:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


November 4

ITN candidates for November 4

MV Francop

This ship was boarded by the Israelis and was found to be carrying hand grenades, mortars and at least 3,000 missiles. Apparently originating in Iran and headed for Lebanon (via Syria) it is one of the biggest caches ever found by Israeli forces. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 13:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Support. According to AP, "the arms shipment was the largest Israel has ever seized", with Syria accusing the Israeli Navy of "piracy". --BorgQueen (talk) 14:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps: "Israel seizes hundreds of tons of arms from the MV Francop off the coast of Cyprus which it says were headed for Hezbollah", or is that too much of a claim to make? - Dumelow (talk) 16:05, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I love this kind of challenge. We will need to put something like "which Hezbollah denies" at the end to appear neutral. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
"Israel seizes hundreds of tons of arms from the MV Francop off the coast of Cyprus which it says were headed for Hezbollah, a claim the group denies"? - Dumelow (talk) 16:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Sounds right to me. Any other supports/objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:22, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
The wording does not sound well. One party says something and the other party the opposite. I'd be very conservative with claims in blurbs. --Tone 16:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Alt: "The Israeli navy seizes hundreds of tons of arms from the MV Francop off the coast of Cyprus, the largest Israel has ever seized." --BorgQueen (talk) 16:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Sounds fine to me (and avoids any claims whatsoever) - Dumelow (talk) 16:45, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Lovely. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd avoid saying 'seize' twice.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:48, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Then how about "the largest found on any vessel captured by Israel."? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:55, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Dunno, this is tricky to do without being wordy. Why not drop the 'largest ever' part of the blurb? Is it really all that notable that its the largest seizure by the Isrealis? It seems to me that it's important to emphasize that it's simply very large (which should be achieved by noting the quantity of arms). It's not like we wouldn't post this if it was only the '2nd largest' ever Israeli arms seizure--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC).
Fine, posted as such. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Imam rapito affair

Twenty-two suspected CIA agents and an American military official are convicted in an Italian court of kidnapping Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr (surveillance photo pictured) in 2003 in the first court case challenging the U.S. policy known as extraordinary rendition. [28] If consensus supports, I can update the article Imam rapito affair . --BorgQueen (talk) 17:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Support rather important international incident. --UltraMagnusspeak 17:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, seems important enough to me - Dumelow (talk) 19:32, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, agree with the above. --candlewicke 21:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, It seems to the first of it's kind, and also quite important one. Our Supreme court also had a surprise hearing of missing persons case Interior Ministry submits missing persons report to SC, which also comes just after when we had a hattrick of wins on same day. --yousaf465' 22:29, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:32, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Single U.S. elections item

Oppose--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:47, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. There are somethings that cross the line. This is one of them.  Cargoking  talk  16:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

or alternatively

The United States holds local elections in various states. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simfan34 (talkcontribs) 15:06 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Local elections don't tend to get a mention.  Cargoking  talk  16:09, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose We have to consider this from a worldwide perspective, and from that the odd gubernatorial and congressional election (or equivalent) for any country isn't worth mentioning. Only fully national elections for the highest legislative or executive bodies, like the 2010 mid-term elections, are noted. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose unless anyone can prove how a state election could possibly impact foreign relations, or some other big thing, eg if the state election resulted in a secessionist coming to power YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 00:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
To be fair, the fact is there is significant international interest in US domestic politics--thus a lot of these items get nominated here. I don't think these elections specifically have much impact on foreign relations directly, but they have resulted in a perceived resurgence of the Republican party in the US, which certainly will be tracked by non-US media. It's very easy to say that similar domestic elections in another country wouldn't get nominated or posted in ITN; but such elections rarely get large-scale international coverage.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


November 3

ITN candidates for November 3

Oil leak plugged at last

You might remember this from the last time they tried to plug it. Apparently they have been successful this time, although they did manage to set fire to the rig somehow (BBC). The article is in good nick (Montara oil spill) and has had a bit of an update for the plugging. Possible blurb: "The source of the Montara oil spill (pictured) in the Timor Sea near Australia is plugged at the fifth attempt" - Dumelow (talk) 23:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Posting soon. I couldn't find the image in the given source, so am not going to use it. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
The image page is here and the disclaimer for commons licensing is here. Unless anyone has any serious objections I am going to replace the Czech dude with the spill pic. It's not ofton that we have such great picture for ITN - Dumelow (talk) 17:36, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Sure, go ahead. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:39, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind, I've done it myself. Thanks for the clarification. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:46, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Cheers, was just checking the procedure to make sure I got it right but I'll be ready for next time anyway! - Dumelow (talk) 17:51, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Death of Claude Lévi-Strauss

-TouLouse (talk) 18:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Support. He was one of the intellectual giants of the last century. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:35, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. Massive intellectual giant. IMO the equivalent of a Nobel Prize winner. One problem is the article is only updated by listing the date of his death. Not sure there will be that much more to add.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I think I have added enough. --candlewicke 21:16, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, enough update. A blurb, please... --Tone 22:51, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Claude Lévi-Strauss, the innovator of modern anthropology, dies in Paris, age 100. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 02:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Is there not a photo available?--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:43, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Czech president signs Lisbon Treaty

This means the treaty, one of the most important ones in the history of EU, is good to go. Nergaal (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, I was going to nominate it myself but you beat me to it. Support when updated. [29] --BorgQueen (talk) 15:54, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: President of the Czech Republic Václav Klaus (pictured) signs the Treaty of Lisbon after it was upheld by the Constitutional Court, fulfilling the final step in its ratification. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:28, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:43, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Came here to propose its addition, but I noticed it's already up! Good work and support. Jolly Ω Janner 18:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Fiji expels NZ/Australian high commissioners

Frank Bainimarama, interirm prime minister and military leader of Fiji has expelled the High Commissioners (Commonwealth equivalent of ambassadors) of Australia and New Zealand from the country. He has also withdrawn his own High Commissioner from Australia. Bainimarama accused the Australian and NZ High Commissioners of misinforming "Canberra and Wellington and [waging] a negative campaign against the government and people of Fiji". They Australian and NZ governments already had travel bans in place against senior Fijian officials and were pressing for elections to be held next year. Seems like a fairly newsworthy story to me (I know we have had similar items in the past). Article for update is probably Foreign relations of Fiji - Dumelow (talk) 11:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated. [30] --BorgQueen (talk) 11:27, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Following the Queen.--yousaf465' 15:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
No update yet? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:37, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 21:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Especially now that they have exchanged expulsions. --candlewicke 21:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
The article isn't updated.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Just done an update (at last). Perhaps: "Fiji expels the High Commissioners of Australia and New Zealand in a row over travel bans on Fijian officials", I couldn't think of a way to get Australia and NZ reciprocating into the tagline - Dumelow (talk) 11:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
How about: Australia and New Zealand expel the High Commissioner of Fiji in retaliation for Fiji's expulsion of their High Commissioners, in a row over travel bans on Fijian officials. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately the Fijian diplomat in NZ was not a High Commissioner just an acting head of mission ([31]) so maybe that is not quite correct - Dumelow (talk) 11:50, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Alt: Australia and New Zealand expel Fijian diplomats in retaliation for Fiji's expulsion of their High Commissioners, in a row over travel bans on Fijian officials. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
That works for me - Dumelow (talk) 13:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


November 2

ITN candidates for November 2

November 2009 Rawalpindi bombing

Another bombing, again a car explodes analysts are pointing their fingers away from Taliban.--yousaf465' 09:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:32, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Support, but the article could use some expansion and more in-text refs. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:41, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
How do we feel about this one right now? This article seems adequate, though it could be expanded. The scale of the bombing would seem to warrant ITN inclusion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:12, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
The current revision seems to have a big chunk of copy vio in the reaction section - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I fixed that up a bit.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 21:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Proba-2 and Soil Moisture and Ocean Salinity satellite launch

The Proba-2 and Soil Moisture and Ocean Salinity satellite mission proposed by CESBIO for the ESA European Space Agency, scheduled for launch September 9 from Plesetsk.Russian Space Web SriMesh | talk 04:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Delayed until November 2 so moved there - Dumelow (talk) 20:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Support --UltraMagnusspeak 17:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
(BBC) It has launched. Article seems OK. Perhaps "The ESA launches the SMOS and Proba-2 satellites to monitor water and salinity on the earth and activity on the sun". The ESA isn't as kind as NASA, apparently, so there are no pics. I am not sure about how I have explained them, maybe there is a better way - Dumelow (talk) 09:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Support as per WP:ITN/R.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:33, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
This is an ITN/R item (ITN/R includes "The launch of satellites, shuttles, and any space mission in general.") The article seems ok. What's the delay here?--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:48, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. You must understand that I am the only one admin working on a daily basis here and sometime I just feel so tired. Admins are not slaves. :-) --BorgQueen (talk) 17:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Understood :). Just making sure the item wasn't simply forgotten.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I'm a fan of spaceflight myself, but how does this rise to the level of belonging to ITN? It's just another observation satellite that doesn't do anything that hasn't already been done from space. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 02:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Fair point. However as I stated above the current ITN/R clearly says that satellite launches are to be posted in ITN. There might also be complaints if we post NASA stuff but not ESA or Russian launches. Perhaps we could suggest tweaking WP:ITN/R to exclude routine satellite launches.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
SMOS is actually the most advanced satellite of its type, seems to put it a touch above "routine"--UltraMagnusspeak 18:26, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


November 1

ITN candidates for November 1

The world's largest cruise ship, Oasis of the Seas, has set sail for the first time, (PressTV). The article could use some work but otherwise I think this is a good candidate - Dumelow (talk) 10:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Just uploaded a picture to the article which might be useful if this gets support, I will see if I can expand and improve the article later - Dumelow (talk) 10:34, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Neutral it is big, but, it is just a boat --UltraMagnusspeak 10:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment didn't it set sailed a few days back ? --yousaf465' 11:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, forgot to mention it set sail on October 30. This still makes it newer than all but one of the current ITN items though (shares same date with ICANN story) - Dumelow (talk) 11:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
It is the world's largest passenger boat so I'd say that's pretty notable. Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Five times bigger than the Titanic; gets my support. It seems mundane, but it's a landmark. Master of Puppets 21:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Support was fortunate to go on the Independence of the Seas and anything that's bigger than that definately deserves a spot on ITN, plus we need some more news. The box is getting a bit small on the Main Page. Jolly Ω Janner 22:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry I have had no time to update. As a possible blurb, though, how about: "The world's largest passenger ship, Oasis of the Seas (pictured), sets sail for the first time"? - Dumelow (talk) 23:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:46, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Abdullah pulls out of Afghan vote

He has announced his boycott Geo Tv. --yousaf465' 11:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Afghan Presidential candidate Abdullah Abdullah has pulled out of the run-off election versus Hamid Karzai over concerns over the independence of the Independent Election Commission.

I was thinking about this one. We normally include head of state election results so this seems like a worthy item. Would it be possible to report Karzai as the winner of the Afghan election and to include Abdullah's pulling out in the blurb?--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
(BBC) Apparently there is still some confusion over whether the run-off will still go ahead anyway. Hopefully it will be cleared up soon - Dumelow (talk) 22:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I would say hold off until it is said if there will still be a run-off. If there is, wait until the results confirm Karzai has won and include that Abdullah questioned its fairness. If there isn't going to be one, run it the same way whenever we find out. Something like:
"Hamid Karzai wins a run-off election in Afghanistan to earn a second term as President after opponent Abdullah Abdullah pulled out citing concerns about the political independence of the Indepentent Election Commission." Grsz11 22:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Well I think we should wait for the confusion to clear.--yousaf465' 04:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
"Afghan officials on Monday canceled plans for a runoff presidential vote, declaring President Hamid Karzai the winner after the withdrawal on Sunday of his last remaining challenger, Abdullah Abdullah." [32] Can someone update the article Afghan presidential election, 2009? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:58, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. Grsz11 15:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
It looks like this election now has a result, though given the volatility there certainly may more twists and turns.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:37, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
As per a comment made on the Talk:Main_Page, is there a way to add one or two words to the blurb indicating the disputed nature of the election? Sorry for not having a particular solution but something along the lines of '...wins a disputed election...'. As was pointed out, the blurb isn't a neutral summary of the articles linked to.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)