Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/August 2019

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Contents

August 31Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Sports

(Posted) RD: William J. Larkin Jr.Edit

Article: William J. Larkin Jr. (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Article is fully sourced and updated --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:14, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) 2019 Midland–Odessa shootingEdit

Clear consensus against posting.
–  Sca (talk) 13:26, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 Midland–Odessa shooting (talk, history)
Blurb: ​In the United States, a mass shooting in Midland, Texas kills five people and injures twenty-one people.
News source(s): NYT, CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
 Davey2116 (talk) 05:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately Oppose. We had posted the El Paso shooting because it was a rather large number, and the Dayton one only because it was 24hr later and both talked in the same news cycle. This is while tragic, yet a smaller gun crime in the US where they are too common. --Masem (t) 06:04, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose minor shootings in the US is commonplace news in the nation. 2607:FCC8:B085:7F00:68E8:C55F:83CC:E35A (talk) 06:19, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Novelty points for being a series of drivebys this time, but still more a curiosity than Big Story. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:30, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose I find myself in agreement with User:Masem and InedibleHulk. Minor incident of frequent type. --DBigXray 06:54, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
I didn't say it was minor or frequent. Just not big news. It's crazy rare for this type of thing to involve one guy, a white guy, a caught guy, a rural guy or a non-feuding guy. This sort of thing being GTA-style rampage, I mean. As "another mass shooting", of course he's the usual suspect. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:01, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
InedibleHulk you have failed to notice the period after your name. I did not say "that it is a..". You can also read "." as ". IMHO" in the statement above, if it helps. --DBigXray 07:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
I fail to notice nothing. There was a connotation, and it's still there, but if you weren't implying it, I won't infer it. Now why was I initially pung here, if not to argue or agree? InedibleHulk (talk) 08:06, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Wang BuxuanEdit

Article: Wang Buxuan (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Paper
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Fully cited. Zanhe (talk) 04:12, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Alec HolowkaEdit

Article: Alec Holowka (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Still needs some citations. Sam Walton (talk) 22:15, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

  • I've tried bolstering the sourcing (there's some key BLP stuff that I know is sourced well, its the smaller games that are a bit harder for good sourcing). --Masem (t) 02:23, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose at least one unreferenced claim but mostly alright. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:08, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
    @The Rambling Man: - I added two cites for the obviously unreferenced claim. starship.paint (talk) 03:20, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    Support good to go now. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:19, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support References are all in order, article is at least as good as any other RD post. Sad tale.130.233.2.183 (talk) 06:37, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support now fully sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 22:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted  — Amakuru (talk) 17:40, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

RD / Blurb Anthoine HubertEdit

Article: Anthoine Hubert (talk, history)
Blurb: ​Racing driver Anthoine Hubert is killed in a crash during a Formula 2 race at the Spa-Francorchamps Circuit in Belgium.
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Please state whether you support a blurb or RD only. Mjroots (talk) 17:09, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

  • RD only A Formula 2 racer isn't going to be the news story of a Dale Earnhardt or comparable F1 racer. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:43, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • RD Only and the article is really not sufficiently detailed, its a lot of charts with minimal substance. --Masem (t) 17:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - as of now. Still a lot of result charts that are unsourced.BabbaQ (talk) 20:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb - as above, not at the highest level of his profession and ergo not as notable as other comparable racing deaths. Also not ready to be posted as an RD yet. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:30, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb and references needed for RD. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 22:32, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment The results in the Jules Bianchi article are similarly "unreferenced", yet that article is a GA and was posted in ITN. Can we please not let this issue be a bar for RD. Everything else is referenced. WP:MOTOR seem to do things this way. That said, I've raised the issue at WT:MOTOR#Anthoine Hubert. It may be that a full RFC will be needed on the issue. I'm wondering whether this is a WP:V vs WP:BLUE issue. Mjroots (talk) 05:29, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
    • In contrast, there is a LOT more prose at Bianchi's article that the tables do not stand out as the bulk of the article. Here, the tables are nearly or more than half of the content, and the lack of general sourcing is of question. (Roughly , less than 500 words of text). Yes, the article passes notability, but it seems to be lacking significant content, particularly in light of this accident, you'd think there would be more bio stuff that can be added. --Masem (t) 05:43, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
      • @Masem: - I expect full obituaries to be posted today, which will enable expansion of the article. Mjroots (talk) 05:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD. Good to go. MSN12102001 (talk) 12:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD Looks much better now. (I oppose Blurb. In case that was not clear). – Ammarpad (talk) 15:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD. In better shape, referencing is up to date. Spengouli (talk) 19:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD G2G-- BoothSift 20:23, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – I guess I have to be the bad guy. There is an {{unreferenced section}}. I did not put it there but it is justified. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:15, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    • RFC started at WT:MOTOR re referencing of results sections in all motorsport articles. Please feel free to make your views known there. Mjroots (talk) 14:21, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

RD Immanuel WallersteinEdit

Article: Immanuel Wallerstein (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): [2][3] [4] [5]
Credits:

 CircleAdrian (talk) 14:42, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose Lots of unreferenced material. Spengouli (talk) 19:59, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Spengouli. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:07, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Honors and Works sections are totally lacking, and still plenty unreferenced claims scattered throughout the prose sections. Terms and definitions section is unnecessary; those should be included on their respective pages for e.g. World-Systems Theory. Half the text in the Criticism section is actually a defense of his work, which raises some suspicions.130.233.2.183 (talk) 06:50, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I don't get it, are you saying he shouldn't be included because of a lack of notability? Search for his name on Google Scholar or Web of Science.CircleAdrian (talk) 05:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I mean, they are lacking for references130.233.2.183 (talk) 09:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Better sources will be needed to attest to his death too. The only results I can find online other than the Mehr News Agency and Firat News Agency already cited is TRT World. All are clearly questionable, and it would be reasonable to expect news of his death to appear on a university website or an international agency. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:30, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment Added two more sources. Presumably there aren't more US university/news sites posting about it yet because of Labor Day weekend. He did definitely die, if you search on Twitter you'll see a ton of people posting about it. CircleAdrian (talk) 05:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

August 30Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime
Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Franco ColumbuEdit

Article: Franco Columbu (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): USA Today, CNN
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Italian bodybuilder and human car jack. Article needs work. Hrodvarsson (talk) 02:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose Sourcing needs work. --Masem (t) 15:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Masem. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:06, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • @Masem and The Rambling Man: I've rewritten the article. I've had to comment out the filmography section and other details as they have proved to be difficult to source, but the article still covers the essentials. Feel free to take another look and list any problems. Hrodvarsson (talk) 04:00, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Should be okay now. Not 100% thrilled with removing the filmography but you kept the more recognizable films there. --Masem (t) 04:07, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - article sourcing has been improved. starship.paint (talk) 06:26, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 01:43, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Dennis FentieEdit

Article: Dennis Fentie (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 15:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support References are good, by spot check. I think it's strange that his death should be in the Background section, and it does read oddly. A few more details (marriage? kids?), rename the section Private Life or something, and then it's good to go.130.233.2.183 (talk) 06:56, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  •   Fixed Thanks for the kind review. I have renamed the section to Biography. Others are welcome if they have a better option in mind. --DBigXray 14:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Limited depth of the subject's career. Dennis_Fentie#Political_career is essentially a list in prose format, with some additional drama about Fentie's government (rather than his political career specifically). Needs information about issues he pushed for, legislation introduced/passed, or other concrete things done in office, rather than election results listed. SpencerT•C 01:35, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed A new section Dennis_Fentie#Social_Initiatives has been added based on User:Spencer's review. Please see if this can be posted before archiving. --DBigXray 07:45, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

RD: Valerie HarperEdit

Article: Valerie Harper (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: American actress dies at age 80. Article in good shape, except for the filmography. Davey2116 (talk) 23:17, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose a few unreferenced claims in the prose and per the nom, filmog is lacking in sources too. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:04, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - for now. ping me when article is ready.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Hans RausingEdit

Article: Hans Rausing (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

Article updated

 BabbaQ (talk) 19:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support: Article may be a bit sparse, but all information are sourced and properly shows importance. INeedSupport :V 20:13, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support: article looks good. -Zanhe (talk) 08:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. Good to go. MSN12102001 (talk) 16:48, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted – Muboshgu (talk) 18:05, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) MHT use in western countriesEdit

No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 14:26, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Hormone replacement therapy (talk, history)
Blurb: ​Breast cancer risk due to hormone replacement therapy is much higher than was previously thought
News source(s): The Lancet
Credits:

Article needs updating
 Count Iblis (talk) 12:27, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
It never is with this user's nominations.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:14, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose A peer-reviewed journal article is not a news source. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose this doesn't even deserve to be on the Current events portal IMO. I'd suggest a SNOW close soon. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 21:43, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment I'd oppose on quality at this time on the basis that the target article hasn't been updated, but - for what it's worth - I did notice at least some news coverage of this ([7][8][9][10][11][12]). I don't really have any strong opinions on whether or not the story is notable, but I thought it might be in the interest of some editors for me to post this (since the nomination was flawed as it linked to the study itself)  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 08:40, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted to Ongoing) Papua protestsEdit

Article: 2019 Papua protests (talk, history)
Blurb: ​A series of protests accompanied by civil unrest breaks out in West Papua
Alternative blurb: ​A series of protests accompanied by civil unrest breaks out in West Papua over a hate speech incident
Alternative blurb II: ​A series of protests accompanied by civil unrest breaks out in West Papua protesting racial discrimination and calling for a referendum on independence
News source(s): Reuters, The Guardian, NPR, The Jakarta Post, Sydney Morning Herald, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: A massive series of protests and general civil unrest across virtually all urban centers in Indonesian Papua - media describes as the "the most serious civil unrest in years". More protests "planned" according to sources. Juxlos (talk) 12:16, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support blurb; article is in good shape. SpencerT•C 12:44, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment Why not a blurb? Brexit was a preventive measure (to save us from headache) because we all know where that was headed. This is more like the Hong Kong protests where, at first, we did not know what direction it was going to go. I would be more inclined to support blurb now and ongoing later if warranted, like we did with Hong Kong. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:32, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support BLURB! Per Cac. MSN12102001 (talk) 14:50, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb but Support ongoing. This is stale as a blurb, as these started mid-August, but they are still going. --Masem (t) 15:09, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    • The protests started on Aug 19 and would be the second-newest item on the template if posted for that date. SpencerT•C 15:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Ongoing is probably better at this moment since it is difficult to single out one event. Willing to post when I see some more support. --Tone 15:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb or ongoing per above. Already notable, and seems like it will develop. Davey2116 (talk) 17:17, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to ongoing for the time being, we can always update to a blurb. --Tone 17:41, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb - blurb first, ongoing later. Banedon (talk) 22:39, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support both-Per Davey-- BoothSift 20:24, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment: Per this edit, it seems that the protests have subsided. IMO a blurb would be preferable for this situation. SpencerT•C 02:48, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

August 29Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Ready) RD: Kazuo WadaEdit

Article: Kazuo Wada (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Japan Times, Straits Times
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Japanese entrepreneur. Died on 19 Aug, but not reported until 29 Aug. Zanhe (talk) 04:27, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

@DBigXray and InedibleHulk: - could you help and weigh in? starship.paint (talk) 00:32, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

When I first saw this, I mistook him for Kyohei Wada. But realizing my error, I didn't feel strongly enough to say anything about Kazuo or his article quality. Unhelpful, I know, but Neutral. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:43, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per starship.paint. Hrodvarsson (talk) 03:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - article satisfies the ITNC criteria. --DBigXray 06:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

(Need Admin Attention) RD: Jim LangerEdit

Article: Jim Langer (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good now excellent sourcing DBigXray 15:14, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose Could use more prose information about his professional career and notable events. At present, that section is essentially a list in prose format of teams he played with and awards that he won. SpencerT•C 02:37, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed the article has been expanded with excellent sourcing. --DBigXray 17:26, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
User:Spencer please take a relook.--DBigXray 13:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
  • @DBigXray: - Super Bowl wins not in prose, I don't think the high school is sourced. starship.paint (talk) 02:35, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
  • A lot of work has been put into expanding the article and improving the sources. An admin should review and post this before it gets archived. --DBigXray 13:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

RD: Jim LeavelleEdit

Article: Jim Leavelle (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NYT, CNN, NBC News
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: American police detective, who was escorting Lee Harvey Oswald when he was assassinated, dies at age 99. Article needs more refs. Davey2116 (talk) 17:12, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Still needs more referencing, unfortunately. starship.paint (talk) 06:23, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) FARC war announcementEdit

No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 02:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Iván Márquez (talk, history) and Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (talk, history)
Blurb: Iván Márquez, former leader of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), announces the group is returning to war against the Colombian government.
News source(s): The Guardian, The Telegraph, BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Announcement only two years after the 2016 peace agreements sought to end more than fifty years of conflict. Significant coverage and historically important. BrozTito (talk) 23:42, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support seems obvious. Banedon (talk) 23:55, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Because he is a former commander it's not entirely clear what ramifications this announcement will have. EternalNomad (talk) 00:34, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment As I'm woefully ignorant to the situation between Colombia and the FARC, would anyone familiar with the subject be able to comment here regarding .whether or not Márquez's announcement (as a former leader) is in fact a significant development? It wouldn't feel right for me to !vote without having enough of an understanding to accurately assess the notability of this story.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 01:10, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose the lead of the FARC article indicates that the leader of FARC disagrees with Marquez on that front. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 03:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Note All FARC commanders are technically former, by virtue of the formal breakup, unless they're back together now. The current leader of the same-named political party is not inherently the leader of a potentially reformed insurgent militia reclaiming the name. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:59, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose The third comment to this nomination shows that, given the articles linked in the blurb, an interested reader cannot determine the relevance of this event. Marquez's article is not updated and in any case is in very bad shape. The FARC article is very long and the update section seems UNDUE; it could have just as easily fit into the previous section already dealing with FARC members dissenting from the peace accord. Worth noting that this is not the first time that members of FARC have declared the accord void. I remember this happening within weeks of the Nobel being awarded to the (previous?) Colombian president for this issue. It never went anywhere, and it's CRYSTAL to think that this one will.130.233.2.183 (talk) 12:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • If FARC was resuming its war, that should be posted. But what would that look like, if not this? GreatCaesarsGhost 12:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose if FARC resumes its war, post, not just someone saying they will. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:47, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Political grandstanding by disaffected FARC supporters. – Sca (talk) 13:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose I could go outside and yell that we're returning to war with Sweden. Doesn't make it so. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:23, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Czy jesteś Polski?Sca (talk) 13:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Hey, just as easily could be France. I discriminate not. :) 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:45, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose If he were a political leader with any troops under his command (so leaders of most countries and of US states) declaring war or even asking his legislature to declare war, it would be notable. If he were commander of an extant military group and was announcing the end of a long standing cease fire, I could see it being notable. Even a commander who declares that he won't be accepting a peace treaty negotiated by his superiors might be notable (depending on how much of the group he commanded). A commander from a disbanded military organization declaring war when he has an unknown amount of troops and materiel doesn't mean much. Let him actually do something and claim credit and we will believe that he has started a war. Rockphed (talk) 14:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment As I understand reading these, when the 2015 peace deal was signed, FARC ended up becoming a political party and gained seats. This thing here is a "new FARC", a splinter group that has taken up the most hostile measures that the original FARC had and abandoned. That said, no hostilities have actually started, so I would not post this yet. --Masem (t) 14:49, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose, we're supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a free publicity machine for the most grandiose and/or blood-curdling pronouncements of assorted dissatisfied terrorists. Besides, how would we decide which terrorists supposedly 'deserve' our assistance? Tlhslobus (talk) 18:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose I agree with above-- BoothSift 22:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New Italian governmentEdit

Article: 2019 Italian government formation (talk, history)
Blurb: Giuseppe Conte (pictured) is reappointed Prime Minister of Italy and forms a new government with the Five Star Movement and Democratic Party following the collapse of the previous coalition.
Alternative blurb: ​Following the collapse of the previous coalition, Giuseppe Conte (pictured) is reappointed Prime Minister of Italy and forms a new government with the Five Star Movement and Democratic Party.
Alternative blurb II: ​Following Prime Minister of Italy Giuseppe Conte's resignation, President Sergio Mattarella tasks Conte (pictured) with the formation of a new cabinet, a coalition of the Five Star Movement and the Democratic Party.
News source(s): Guardian, AP, AFP. Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Conte resigned last week, and the 5 Star-Lega government he led (or maybe "oversaw") collapsed. Now he's been reappointed by the PM to lead a new government. Smurrayinchester 12:59, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose The Guardian article doesn't say what you think it says. Conte has merely been given a mandate to try forming a new government. The very same article says the deal may be scuppered if the Five Star Movement members vote it down. Wait until Conte if/when succeeds and then we can debate. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:17, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait – If they manage to cobble together a cabinet and form a new government, this would be ITNworthy. – Sca (talk) 14:30, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait per Sca. It's just a little too soon. Once a government is formed, regardless of who the PM will be, I definitely intend to support a blurb on its merits, but this story is still developing (as far as I know).  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 20:28, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm becoming more open to ongoing as the most blurb-worthy aspects of the story (the formation of a new government) have yet to come, but if there's reason to believe that this could be as slow as the process to replace Theresa May was, then I'd be swayed that a blurb now is more appropriate.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 20:51, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support the alternative would be posting it to ongoing (see Brexit) and as with that nomination, I'm for blurb first, ongoing later. Banedon (talk) 23:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – Interesting political machinations. Would be nice to get us out of this news dry spell. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 08:16, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Changed !vote to wait. I was under the false impression this was a done deal. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:36, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per the IP - nothing to see here. Would support posting the new government. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - Proposed altblurb2 for content. Also, as per Coffeeandcrumbs, time to get this wagon rolling before it's old news. Suggest to bolden "resignation" and "formation", as they're the same newsworthy process, ongoing for three weeks now. Wakari07 (talk) 12:42, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    How would it be old news? Either Conte succeeds, at which point his continuation as Prime Minister is confirmed and we could post then, or he fails, and there's a well good chance of that happening - we'd look a little silly then having posted this. Wait until if/when Conte succeeds. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 12:54, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    I mean the crisis that suddenly started three weeks ago (with the railway vote) and the resignation ten days ago now. Just suggesting, couldn't we update and/or bump the blurb as needed over the follwing days/weeks? The only significant events expected are either (unexpected) elections or an (expected) oathtaking and confirmation. But this could take weeks. Why wait? Wakari07 (talk) 13:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    We wait because the significance of the story is whether this deal actually works. As mentioned, it goes before a vote of Five Star Movement members, who could easily vote it down. And knowing Italian politics, any number of other things could derail this. We can post when we actually know the result. The fact Conte has merely been tasked to try is not ground-breaking news that must be posted this very moment. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:16, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    The significance is that of a serious, ongoing political crisis in a major country [13][14]. Wakari07 (talk) 13:22, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    And we'll post about it...when we actually have something solid to report. News that a politician is trying to form government isn't ITN-worthy. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    That's just one IP's opinion to me: sSee the two significance criteria for inclusion in ITN. Wakari07 (talk) 13:36, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    Are you trying to suggest that, because I'm editing from an IP my opinion is somehow less worthy? Suggest you be careful with your response. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:38, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    Thank you for striking, I do appreciate that. I apologise for my tone in response. I think, to avoid this escalating, let's just say we have two different views on this. We've both made our case and we'll let others decide. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:41, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    Note: altblurb2 seems not to mention the word "Italy" at all. The acronyms are not very useful here, either. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 13:03, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    Tried a fix.~Thanks for the feedback. Wakari07 (talk) 13:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose different day, different coalition. Not meaningful. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 13:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    Different coalition is hugely meaningful. That's how a multiparty democracy works. Wakari07 (talk) 13:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    In Italian politics, very little is meaningful. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 13:17, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Molto buono!Sca (talk) 13:24, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
The Rambling Man has been on Wikipedia since 2005. I don't think he needs educating on what a multiparty democracy is... 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
You mean, until the last adult leaves the room? Wakari07 (talk) 13:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support alt blurb 2 or ongoing While it's not a change in head-of-government, it is still very consequential for Italy and the world. Davey2116 (talk) 17:15, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Support for Ongoing, basically per Vanilla Wizard above. Weak oppose for blurbs as basically premature, tho alt blurb 2 seems best if others decide to post a blurb. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Update If I understand the mechanics here, today the new colation gov't, announced yesterday, Sept 4, should have been sworn in (NYTimes). They still face a confidence vote by the Parliament, but this is not expected to be a hurdle due to the colition's control of Parliament. So this might be the time to post? --Masem (t) 21:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Achille SilvestriniEdit

Article: Achille Silvestrini (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Vatican News, Crux
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Cardinal of the Catholic Church; should be adequately referenced. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 15:50, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose There were a few statements that needed cites. I've tagged them as such; if you can clean that up, consider this a full support. --Jayron32 20:22, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
    @Jayron32: I've cleaned those up and fixed some other minor details. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 02:12, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - article looks good. -Zanhe (talk) 03:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – Does a much better job at avoiding over-reliance on primary sources, unlike previous noms for cardinals. Good work. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:27, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 12:42, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

August 28Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
  • New Zealand bans tourists from swimming with bottlenose dolphins, saying dwindling numbers are linked to excessive interaction with tourists, as the animals choose socialising with people over necessary biological functions. Authorities say the species risks "being loved into extinction". (The Independent)
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
  • Archaeologists in Huanchaco, Peru unearth 227 sets of human remains aged between five and fourteen, and believed to be sacrificed over 500 years prior. The discovery is the largest known child sacrifice in history. (BBC)

(Posted) RD: Nie YuanziEdit

Article: Nie Yuanzi (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Radio France International
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Notorious Red Guards leader who fired the opening shot of the Cultural RevolutionZanhe (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support – Looks good to me. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:35, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 12:42, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) Bury F.C.Edit

No consensus to post. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Bury F.C. (talk, history)
Blurb: Bury F.C. are expelled from the English Football League after being a member since 1894
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A high profile demise of a professional football team that has been in the professional leagues since before the start of most international leagues  The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 18:19, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Very big UK sports news, but no further than that. Black Kite (talk) 18:50, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose very sad, but parochial and while it may be the end of the beginning for such clubs, this is a minor blip right now. There's even talk of another, international consortium stumping up the cash as I type this. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:02, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Forecast – Snow. Sca (talk) 20:12, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support This is a good quality article, and this a rare event (first expulsion of a League club since 1992) which is getting a lot of coverage.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Black Kite. -- KTC (talk) 20:22, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose The bankruptcy of Rangers was nominated and rejected back in 2012, and that was an internationally notable football club. Bury is notable on a national scale at the most. NorthernFalcon (talk) 21:01, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Black Kite, TRM. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:19, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. I know little of the structure of English football, so take that for what it's worth, but this sounds like a notable story to me. It seems to me it would be like the New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox being kicked out of Major League Baseball for financial reasons. 331dot (talk) 08:19, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • @331dot: The main difference is that the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox are two of the three most successful teams in the MLB, while Bury F.C. have never won a top-flight title and used to compete in the lower divisions for 90 years. Your comparison would have been fair had Manchester United F.C. or Liverpool F.C. been expelled, which surely would have led to different voting results.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:48, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Except Bury are older than both of those clubs and been in league system since before either of those were created. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:16, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
If Trump (aged 73) is shot tomorrow, it will be a snow post blurb. If a 90-year old mayor of a city of 10,000 was, unlikely. Older is not more notable. Juxlos (talk) 12:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Apart from the fact that they have never won a top-flight title and were deeply in the lower divisions for a long time, no other indication on notability, such as being the oldest club in the league system, has been made in support of this nomination (note that there are more than 5,000 clubs in the English Football League).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This is a minor team ending the last seasons as number 68 and 70 overall in the English football league system after playing in tier 3 and 4. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:13, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support as nominator. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:16, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - very sad news for footballing fans, as TRM alludes to, but Bury has not been a club of the highest calibre since their FA Cup victories more than a century ago. That puts them firmly in the camp of historic club, but not one that is relevant on an international (or ITN) stage nowadays, unfortunately. Stormy clouds (talk) 11:28, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Looks like 2:1 against – evidently no consensus re significance. – Sca (talk) 14:33, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose time to bury this one. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 16:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
    [15] – Muboshgu (talk) 17:03, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Prorogation in the United KingdomEdit

No consensus in favour of posting the blurb. Brexit already posted to Ongoing. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Prorogation in the United Kingdom (talk, history)
Blurb: ​In the UK Prime Minister Johnson asks the Queen to prorogue Parliament from 10 September to 14 October, which she approved.
News source(s): Parliament
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is where the current event is best covered. It may help dispel misunderstandings about the process. It would make a change from the Brexit article. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 15:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC).
  • Support as nominator. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 15:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC).
  • Oppose This is only news because of Brexit context (which is already in Ongoing). If this was 2014 or any other year, this ITN would be the equivalent of posting "School's off for summer". Juxlos (talk) 15:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose as Brexit has just been posted to Ongoing, which is sufficient.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:24, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose with Brexit in ongoing. --Masem (t) 15:29, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment Blurb is a bit clunky Rockin 19:50, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose It's an internal political maneuver tied to Brexit. The real story will (probably) be on Oct 31. Stay tuned. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Ongoing: BrexitEdit

Article: Brexit (talk, history)
Ongoing item nomination
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Brexit is kicking off again and this will intensify as the Halloween deadline approaches. The current action is at Prorogation in the United Kingdom but there's talk of a constitutional crisis and so the matter may move to the courts and elsewhere. Putting Brexit back into Ongoing would be a flexible way of covering developments. Andrew D. (talk) 12:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support. This is clearly going to be a big story, at least for the next couple weeks, if not right up to October 31st. 331dot (talk) 12:59, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I was thinking of nominating Boris Johnson's intent to prorogue Parliament as a blurb, but this is perhaps more appropriate.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support article quality is sufficient, and the story is a major, but multifaceted story that would be difficult to write an all-encompassing blurb for. This is pretty much exactly what ongoing is for. This story is likely to be a top headline, and evolving quickly, for the some time. --Jayron32 13:18, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Big story and a robust article. Plus if we keep this as an ongoing event then there may be less debate over whether or not to accept nominations for smaller Brexit-related events for ITN. -mike_gigs (talk) 13:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - Even as UK-centric as this news is, it's a big story that merits the ongoing coverage.--WaltCip (talk) 14:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - there and back again, exactly where we started after 5 months. Juxlos (talk) 14:13, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Clear support, also ongoing is a better choise than finding a single blurb. Posting. --Tone 14:52, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Not that unusual (except for the fact Brexit is about to happen just once) [16] BBC royal correspondent Jonny Dymond said it was established precedent to prorogue Parliament before a Queen's Speech, albeit generally more briefly, and rarely, if ever, at such a constitutionally charged time. --Pudeo (talk) 18:08, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Support The real story is going to be at the end of October and that will be a blurb. But there is enough news for the moment that we could do ongoing. Will have to see if it can be sustained. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Post-posting support per above. Davey2116 (talk) 22:38, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Post-posting oppose - blurb first, ongoing later. Banedon (talk) 23:24, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Poat-posting aupport obviously far too many different and changing facets for a blurb, exactly what ongoing is for. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:51, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Post-posting support, although we may soon need to address again the problem that got it removed some time ago (arguably wrongly, at least in my view, tho others may understandably disagree), when updates for the most recent events were being made to some of the many daughter articles rather than to the main article. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:37, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) Tropical Storm Dorian (2019)Edit

No consensus, as it is too early for this in the news.--Wyatt2049 | (talk) 12:18, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Tropical Storm Dorian (2019) (talk, history)
Ongoing item nomination
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Tropical storm Dorian is about to hit Puerto Rico. It will then hit Florida and likely cause damage. Wyatt2049 | (talk) 16:07, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Known effects thus far in the Caribbean don't meet ITN levels and we don't post weather events based on forecasts. Revisit down the road if major impacts occur. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:58, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait Its only supposed to hit around as a Cat 2 storm, so we really should wait to see what damage may occur. --Masem (t) 19:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose and close, renominate if something newsworthy actually happens. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:59, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Nothing has happened yet; ongoing is not for weather events in progress, especially when there are not yet any effects yet. 331dot (talk) 20:02, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose ongoing, wait to see if a blurb would be appropriate - Better to post after it hits, as any blurb of a tropical cyclone should mention the effects that the cyclone had. We don't know yet, so I'd recommend revisiting this later this week or over the weekend. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it could be an especially destructive storm after making multiple landfalls (even Hurricane Nate was just a Category 1), but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 22:08, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait I'm not exactly sure why, but we never do hurricanes as ongoing. It's clearly pre-mature for a blurb. My crystal ball does say there's a 50-50 chance we'll be posting this later on. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:12, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Right now Dorian hasn't had a significant impact yet, and we can't predict the future. Johndavies837 (talk) 23:26, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose No significant impact at the moment, may update later-- BoothSift 02:01, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 27Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Thanadsri SvastiEdit

Article: Thanadsri Svasti (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Bangkok Post
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: New article. Thailand's foremost food writer, singer, television personality, etc. Paul_012 (talk) 23:41, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support – Looks good to me. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:54, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 12:49, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Jessi CombsEdit

Article: Jessi Combs (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49504222
Credits:

Article updated

 KTC (talk) 20:24, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

August 26Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Politics and elections

RD: Kanchan Chaudhary BhattacharyaEdit

Article: Kanchan Chaudhary Bhattacharya (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Outlook India, Times of India
Credits:

Nominator's comments: India's first female Director General of Police (highest ranking officer in states/UTs in India) and inspiration for a TV serial Udaan (TV series). DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 11:26, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment DiplomatTesterMan, here we only discuss the article quality and major problems, not the notability (as the template above says). Please cite the awards section. The article looks good.--DBigXray 16:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • SupportThanks for the update. The article is ready IMHO. I have supported the nom. --DBigXray 16:24, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment: Needs copyediting (e.g. "She had 33 years of a scintillating career behind her.") and more references in the career section. SpencerT•C 02:46, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Needs more copyediting, as well as editing to reduce close paraphrasing from source material. @DiplomatTesterMan:, @DBigXray: I'll fix what I can and leave some additional questions on the talk page, if either of you could assist with those. SpencerT•C 15:28, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Chen JiayongEdit

Article: Chen Jiayong (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): [18]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 11:08, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support – --- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:52, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose The sourcing looks good, but I think the lead needs to be reorganized to give a better explanation of all the reasons he is notable. It currently includes his political work, but not his academic work. Also, his involvement in politics does not seem to be explained in the "Biography" section. Rockphed (talk) 17:34, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
@Rockphed: I've now greatly expanded the career section and almost doubled the length of the article. Please check again. Thanks, -Zanhe (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
Wow, that is much better. My support (at this point) is pro-forma.Rockphed (talk) 12:19, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Pita ParaoneEdit

Article: Pita Paraone (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Newshub, Mirage, Scoop
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Start-class article, decent sourcing. Politician from New Zealand. BoothSift 06:19, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose a few unreferenced claims. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 06:58, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – Added the missing refs. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:35, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose Lacks depth of coverage as to what he accomplished in his political career, but otherwise sourced. SpencerT•C 23:49, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) Indonesian capital moveEdit

WP:SNOW'ed, renominate when confirmed by parliament. Banedon (talk) 23:41, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Capital of Indonesia (talk, history)
Blurb: ​Indonesian President Joko Widodo announces plans to move the Capital of Indonesia from Jakarta to East Kalimantan
News source(s): [19] [20] [21], AP, Reuters, Guardian, NPR
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: It hasn't "happened" yet, but the process is gradual and going to take 10 years, so nominating now. Banedon (talk) 02:27, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment: There are probably only three reasonable possible times for this to go up – either now, when the parliament approves the move, or when it is complete in 10 years or so. — MarkH21 (talk) 03:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I'd suggest that it would be reasonable to post this both when Parliament approves it, and when the move is complete. Ten years is a long time. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose announcing plans. Although when concrete decisions are made, this is very notable. Peace time capital transfers are rare, and just off the top of my head are limited to Brazil and Pakistan in recent history.130.233.3.90 (talk) 05:59, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Don’t forget Myanmar, Kazakhstan, and a host of post-independence sub-Saharan African nations (like Nigeria and the Ivory Coast)! — MarkH21 (talk) 06:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per above, wait until a better time-- BoothSift 06:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. Good faith nom, but wait until it happens (if it does). Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - for now he has plans to move the capital but it hasn't been done. Maybe after it has been moved.___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 11:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Counterpoint Assuming that editors agree the story is worth posting but only question is when, I'd suggest this may be the stage most likely to be "in the news." Unless opposition is expected, the parliamentary vote may be seen as an "old news" rubber stamping. And the move itself could be quite drawn out. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:29, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
    • To me, the right point to post something lke this is when all government bodies needed have voted/signed off to initiate the process, making it a sure thing to happen. Yes, the move may take years, and when the move is formally completed that also may be ITN. And there also may be lawsuits or other citizen actions that slow it down or stall it. Comparing this to business news, this would like posting when two companies have obtained their shareholders' votes to merge being the point to post, but before necessary regulatory action to approve it. --Masem (t) 13:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – A sprawling megalopolis of 10 million to lose its status as the capital of a far-flung country of 260 million? That's big news in anyone's book. (Four sources added above.) – Sca (talk) 14:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I believe this is the time to post. Does anyone know how long the formalities will take? If it's a few weeks, then we could wait, but as GCG said, this is the point when the most eyes will be on this story. Davey2116 (talk) 16:53, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Looking at the Jakarta post article, this still needs to be formalized into a bill and pass the Indonesian legislature. That is the time to post. Rockphed (talk) 17:24, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support We can't wait until 2030 to publish this story. It's a presidential executive decision in a presidential system: in April he decided to do it, and now he decides to where it will move (between North Penajam Paser and Kutai Kartanegara, near Balikpapan and Samarinda). For anyone who has read sources, the urgency is clear: crowded Jakarta is sinking. The next big steps are the name, the bill annex budget (now $33 bn), the start of construction (2020), the start of relocation (2024) and the end of relocation (around 2030). The Vice President just today announced that Parliament needs to detail the plan and approve it [22], but is there a hint of a political opposing voice yet? (Did anyone express any serious argument yet – except those into orangutan and rainforest conservation activismhowever orangutans can't vote and indigenous people weren't consulted?) I'm unhappy to say it, but I'd consider it almost a done thing. Wakari07 (talk) 19:56, 27 August 2019 (UTC) Update: I found exactly one dissenting voice in parliament, in the Nikkei Asian Review. It prudently called last week not to "throw away money only for the sake of something unclear, only for the sake of reputation". Wakari07 (talk) 00:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Wait until the Indonesian legislature approves the move. Calidum 20:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose we don't post "announcements of plans". The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:34, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above comments on how it would be more appropriate to post this as a news item once the plan is actually approved. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 00:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait until it actually happens. Mjroots (talk) 06:34, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait - I am not opposing it but Wait. This will not be realised until 2024 and a lot can happen until then.BabbaQ (talk) 06:39, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - as much as this is notable, it's currently a plan - when it becomes law, we can post a blurb that says: Indonesia's parliament approves President Joko Widodo's plan to move the Capital of Indonesia from Jakarta to East Kalimantan Juxlos (talk) 13:49, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Isabel ToledoEdit

Article: Isabel Toledo (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): CNN, NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Cuban-American fashion designer (whose clients included Michelle Obama) dies at age 59. Short article, more refs needed. Davey2116 (talk) 02:23, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Pal BenkoEdit

Article: Pal Benko (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): New York Times obit
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: A fair number of unsourced statements that will of course need to be addressed before posting; NYT obit may help with this. IntoThinAir (talk) 00:04, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose – I have tagged issues I found. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • You appear to have been reverted. It does need more references though. The "Notable Games" section may be an issue as well as it's not clear in such sections what selection criteria are being used.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose too much unreferenced. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:38, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I have cited everything. I recall Robert Morgenthau had the same "notable cases" problem, but it was solved by changing 'notable' to 'selected'. Davey2116 (talk) 23:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Great work by Davey2116. Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support It could use more work, but fine for RD. The 'notable/selected/illustrative games' sections have been an issue in the past. If that is an issue here, the section could be removed and copied to the talk page until more references are added to prevent it being an indiscriminate list. Hrodvarsson (talk) 03:03, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I'm not familiar with the prior debate on this, but the games section seems fine. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:37, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • This has been ready for some time, any admins around?-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 12:39, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Gavin WatsonEdit

Article: Gavin Watson (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): SABC, News24
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Watson was implicated in the ongoing South African State Capture controversy. He was the CEO of Bosasa, a company that bribed senior government officials. Article is currently being expanded.   Lefcentreright (talk) 17:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose – This is a stub in disguise (Early life, some criminal implications? and death). Also uses a primary source redacted court document (Ref #1) and an unreliable (Ref #2). This is not a BIO. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support seems fine to me - we've posted way worse. Primary sources are not inherently objectionable, and the claim tied to ref #2 is covered by the many secondary sources cited. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:46, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
    • It is missing a career section. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:45, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - seems decent enough for RD,BabbaQ (talk) 22:35, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per C&C, it's not sufficient in depth to cover the whole career, just a section on some purported criminal activity is undue and doesn't constitute a suitable biography for main page inclusion. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

P. V. SindhuEdit

Article: P.V. Sindhu (talk, history)
Blurb: P.V. Sindhu wins the World Badminton Championships and becomes the first Indian to win the World title.
Alternative blurb: ​In badminton, the BWF World Championships conclude with Kento Momota winning the men's singles and P. V. Sindhu winning the women's singles.
News source(s): Times of India ,India Today News18
Credits:
Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

 Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 02:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support (both blurbs) The only event of its kind in Badminton. BWF is the sole international badminton org with 191 member countries. BBC also covered the event. --DBigXray 06:27, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The BWF World Championships consist of men's and women's singles and men's, women's and mixed doubles events; why is the winner of women's singles event the only one mentioned? Also, is being the first <nationality> at winning something enough to warrant mention in ITN? - Vishal dh (talk) 06:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Vishal dh good point. Do you have an alternative blurb in mind ? --DBigXray 06:38, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Added to box adapting the formula used for the tennis French Open. The article for the 2019 BWF World Championships isn't great though, just a bunch of lists and stats. Vishal dh (talk) 06:51, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Supported both blurbs. --DBigXray 07:13, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose the event is ITNR, and the target should be 2019 BWF World Championships which is pretty woeful. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:17, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose If we target the athlete, I don't think this sort of thing merits being posted on ITN. The event article, which should be the target, has 2 sentences of text and 3 pages of tables. Even if the article gets fixed, I would only support the alt blurb. Rockphed (talk) 13:07, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – The BWF article is not an article – "a piece of writing" – in the usual sense, and not suitable as a target. I leave the nominated target, P.V. Sindhu, to our seasoned corps of sports cognoscenti to judge. – Sca (talk) 13:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose I think that it is appropriate here to use the event as the featured article (alt blurb), but unfortunately I think it's fairly underdeveloped and not fit to be featured, per The Rambling Man mike_gigs. (talk) 16:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per others -- BoothSift 06:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

August 25Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

RD: Ferdinand PiëchEdit

Article: Ferdinand Piëch (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Business Today
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 06:41, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Gary Ray BowlesEdit

Article: Gary Ray Bowles (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): [23] [24]
Credits:

 ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 11:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support - good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:27, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Maybe What's that "2" stuck to footnote 5? If it's cool, so am I. But if not, out with it! InedibleHulk (talk) 20:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
That makes sense. Tidier than using three direct links. Good to go! InedibleHulk (talk) 01:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support sadly no reason not to post. Not the world's biggest fan of promoting capital punishment, but we have no policy around that, so it's good to go. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 02:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

August 24Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Arun JaitleyEdit

Article: Arun Jaitley (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: C Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 07:50, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Strong Support: Between 1999-2019, He is either cabinet minister of Union government or leader of opposition in parliament of India. Very remarkable politician. --Pavan santhosh.s (talk) 09:41, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support: per above very notable politican.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
Pavan santhosh.s Pharaoh of the Wizards Please note that notability is not at issue for Recent Deaths nominations; the only purpose of this discussion is to judge article quality. 331dot (talk) 10:24, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
I know after the RFC only the quality of the article and just giving my support briefly.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:31, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
Pharaoh of the Wizards, 331dot wants you to talk about the article quality (or problems if any) which you haven't yet done. any comment that underlines the notability is useless here, this isn't AfD. cheers. --DBigXray 11:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks I agree with you have updated the lead.Will be precise in futurePharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:38, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
331dot Pharaoh of the Wizards Thanks for the suggestion. Will stick to that in future. --Pavan santhosh.s (talk) 11:54, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose at the moment. It's mostly there, but there are some unsourced claims (Vajpayee Govt section), some problematic grammar (" He demitted the office of the Minister for Shipping with effect from 1 September 2001 and as Union Minister of Law, Justice and Company Affairs on 1 July 2002 to join as a General Secretary of the BJP and its national spokesman"?) The last paragraph of the 2004-2014 section looks like we're criticising Jaitley in Wikipedia's voice. Some parts aren't clear to anyone not familiar with Indian politics ("he played a vital role during the talks of the Women Reservation Bill in the Rajya Sabha and also supported Anna Hazare for the Jan Lokpal Bill" or "On June 20, 2017, he reaffirmed that the GST rollout is well and truly on track."). Black Kite (talk) 11:26, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  Working to fix above, Black Kite, thanks for the review. regards--DBigXray 11:28, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed --DBigXray 13:16, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment - I see a couple of citation issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 13:28, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed Sherenk1 I have added the missing citations along with copy edit. please review again.--DBigXray 18:06, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - per Pavan santhosh.s --Ashok   Talk 17:15, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - influential politician. Article is well sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 23:20, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Damascus airstrike (August 2019)Edit

Article: Damascus airstrike (August 2019) (talk, history)
Blurb: ​The Israeli air force struck in Damascus, Syria to prevent an Iranian force from launching an attack on Israel with drones.
News source(s): theguardian, haaretz, timesofisrael
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Full Media coverage such as Israeli source (Time of Israel and haaretz), Fox new, Guardian, BBC and So on, The air strike in the Middle East between influential governments of the region including Israel, Syria and Iran. Saff V. (talk) 11:35, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Bellow ITN-level threshold. Also, no blurb, which at least would serve as an attempt to establish overall significance. El_C 11:39, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Doesn't suggest any level of human injury to a great degree, and otherwise par for the course for countries in that part of the world. --Masem (t) 14:06, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above on notability, and per the problematic wording of the proposed blurb (would Iran really have started dronebombing Israel if it weren't for Israel attacking the capital of Syria first??? that may not be how it's intended to be read, but that's what the wording currently seems to suggest)  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 21:59, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not even an attempt at neutral point of view with respect to the blurb's wording and sources from one side only. On notability, Israel admits to hundreds (NYT) or thousands (JC) of air strikes in Syria alone. It sounds strange to me that this blurb was proposed after Israel's unprovoked drone attack last night in Lebanon, a first since 2006 [25]. I mean, how far can you push WP:BIAS? Wakari07 (talk) 22:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
    Call me biased, but if there's one thing neater than a drone crashing where it shouldn't possibly have, it's two of them. If somebody nominates this one, I'm for it. But I'm neutral on whether someone totally should. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    Given that the Beirut attack was the first of its kind since the 2006 Lebanon War, I do see a stronger argument for the notability of that attack than this one. Of course, its proposed blurb would need to lack the glaring POV issues that this one has, but I'm much more inclined to support such a nomination on its merits. The target article for the attack in Lebanon doesn't appear to have any quality issues (aside from how short it currently is).  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 03:05, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    Call me old-fashioned and ignorant, but are we talking intentional Zionist robot kamikaze here or accidental double plane crash? InedibleHulk (talk) 03:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    If you're asking about whether it was purposeful or an accident, it's anyone's guess. What we know is that multiple drones flew into Lebanese airspace, crashed into suburbs, and exploded; what we don't know is whether or not Israel intended for that to happen, because they won't comment on it when asked. I still don't have any strong opinions (despite how I'm more open to it than I am with the Syria attack), but it appears that nobody was hurt.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 03:43, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    In the meanwhile, I've removed the "attack" parts. When we know, we'll know. If we don't, we won't. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:56, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    If a white supremacist's drone ends up exploding next to my head, how likely is it that it would be judged an accident? Wakari07 (talk) 05:47, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    I largely agree with your sentiment there; the only thing that seems to be ambiguous is who/where the intended target was. It's certainly not ambiguous as to whether or not the Israeli military intended to conduct strikes. We just don't know if the drones crashing into buildings how Israel intended to use them. That aspect of the story very well could have been an accident. I would not recommend removing "attack" from the articles.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 06:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    I don't know how or why white supremacists would use expensive drones to hurt you, and I don't know why the first one here didn't explode if it was supposed to (or why the next one did if it wasn't). I just know no sources in the article even suggested an attack when I reflected them. Now some do, so it arguably makes some sense to buy what they're selling. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:42, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    My one drone-minding acquaintance told me the parts needed to build a 5-kg-carrying quadcopter would cost around 1000 € (Is it plausibly deniable for Israel to eventually involve itself in an experimental "low-budget" military swarming operation?). Hezbollah claimed today that the "reconnaissance" thing that fell on their roof carried about that much explosives [26][27]. Then nobody claimed the pair flew straight from Israel. As for the possible motive, here is an interesting one, though the source may be disputed. Now "some Hebrew media" add oil to the fire: [28] that's talk sourced to Channel 13 (Israel) about claims to having destroyed a "planetary mixer" – or whatever. Regards. Wakari07 (talk) 21:09, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

August 23Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: David KochEdit

Article: David Koch (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): CBS News
Credits:

Article updated

 SoWhy 13:05, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Was just about to nominate this myself. Significant person in American business and politics. No CN tags, no big tags pbp 13:50, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose Article looks pretty good, but is still mostly written in the present tense. The biggest problem I have with it is the "Criticism and recognition" section title; the section seems fine, I just think the title is a little off (though I have no idea for a better one). Also, the personal life section has a claim that isn't referenced about his being on a flight that crashed (on the ground it seems). I'm not sure if it is encyclopedic or not and it doesn't seem contentious, so I let it stand. Rockphed (talk) 14:27, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
I've added 2 sources for the plane crash. Johndavies837 (talk) 16:52, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I just re-read the whole thing and couldn't find any present tense. I might be overlooking something but could you maybe point out examples? Regards SoWhy 17:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Definitely notable enough. Jokullmusic 19:12, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Good to go. MSN12102001 (talk) 20:23, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support "Criticism and recognition" contains criticism and recognition. Concise, precise and properly cased. What's not to love? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:33, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted – Muboshgu (talk) 22:44, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Sheila SteafelEdit

Nominator's comments: Popular British actress -- JediLofty Talk to meFollow me 13:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose Article at this point is mostly a list in prose format; needs more depth of coverage of the subject. SpencerT•C 12:45, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

August 22Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Closed) RD: Junior AgogoEdit

Stale, unimproved. Stephen 04:04, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Junior Agogo (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:
 The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:44, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Sourcing issues including the stats in infobox. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:01, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment He really isn't a very well known football player, I thought about posting this here, but decided against it because nothing really stood out in his career apart from sadly he died really young. Govvy (talk) 10:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
    the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:36, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
@The Rambling Man: I didn't mean to be rude, I just thought that Agogo wasn't notable enough for inclusion, his page is a little bit messy and a lot of content could probably be added. As for stats in the info box, they are covered by the soccerbase external links. Govvy (talk) 10:49, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
I didn't think you were being rude, I simply pointed you to the fact that notability is assumed, quality is all that's important. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Under-sourced. There are no citations for his career in the US or for Bristol Rovers. Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:47, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Pawnkingthree. C'mon! Basic, basic stuff here!--WaltCip (talk) 12:13, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Tim FischerEdit

Article: Tim Fischer (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Former deputy PM of Australia. Fought at Coral and Balmoral in Vietnam. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:53, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

August 21Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Celso PiñaEdit

Article: Celso Piña (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): WaPost
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Mexican accordionist. Needs lots of sourcing TLC to get this in postable shape. Masem (t) 13:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose You are correct that lots of sourcing is needed-- BoothSift 03:29, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Russ Conway (journalist)Edit

Article: Russ Conway (journalist) (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Star
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Pulitzer prize winner finalist, Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 15:54, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Thanks Flibirigit, corrected. It doesnt matter for this discussion though. Cheers.--DBigXray 16:39, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support: Everything in the article looks reasonably well-referenced, although I did see a slight over-reliance on references #1 and #5 (as 45% of the citations in the article link to one of those two refs, out of 14 total sources). I don't think that's a problem in terms of the article's nomination to RD, but I figured it was worth mentioning just in case. TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername 18:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – non-traditional style (for section heading) but that is not a concern for ITN. Sourcing is good and not reliant on a single source. Note that Houston & Shoalts is also used, so there are actually 3+ dominant reliable sources. That is more than enough. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:26, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Well done, at least well referenced. Good to go IMO--BoothSiftTalks 02:29, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support good to go. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:55, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment still good to go 12 hours later. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:40, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment still good to go 15 hours later. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:39, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:49, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Giovanni ButtarelliEdit

Article: Giovanni Buttarelli (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Politico
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 15:35, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose – Majority unreferenced and external links in the body. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:30, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article is mostly unreferenced. --BoothSiftTalks 02:29, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Babulal GaurEdit

Article: Babulal Gaur (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): News18
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article. Sourcing needs work Now excellent sourcing. Elected 10 times, ex CM. Stated "Drinking is a fundamental right", so he was my kind of man. DBigXray 06:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose As you say, sourcing needs work. It looks like 2/3 of the article is not footnoted. Also, I hope "His education qualification was B.A. LLB" can be expanded. SupportRockphed (talk) 12:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Looks good now. Rockphed (talk) 12:57, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose The sourcing definitely needs work at this moment. --BoothSiftTalks 02:28, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  Working to resolve the issues. --DBigXray 15:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed The sourcing issues have now been fixed along with issues pointed above. Please review again. courtesy ping User:Boothsift and Rockphed --DBigXray 12:43, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Issues have been fixed, Needs a fresh review.--DBigXray 06:03, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 01:59, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

August 20Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) 2019 Brazil wildfiresEdit

Article: 2019 Brazil wildfires (talk, history)
Blurb: ​Brazil's National Institute for Space Research announces that it has detected more than 74,000 wildfires in the Amazon rainforest since January.
News source(s): BBC, CNN, The Guardian, CBS, Fox News, Reuters, Washington Post. There's plenty more.
Credits:

Article updated

 Vanamonde (Talk) 02:09, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

  • CommentThe surge marks an 83% increase over the same period of 2018... and is the highest since records began in 2013, according to National Institute for Space Research (Brazilian space agency) via Reuters --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good to me--BoothSiftTalks 02:22, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - All referenced and notable Sherenk1 (talk) 05:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Whle these have been going since January, only yesterday/today did the media seem to realize this was a significant problem. --Masem (t) 05:30, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support good to go. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:57, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. Per above MSN12102001 (talk) 11:46, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support uh, I guess this is going to impact mankind or entire life on earth. --DBigXray 12:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support as an "Ongoing" event. --Bageense(disc.) 15:04, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
    It should go up as a blurb (it has been ready for 6 hours or more) and if the event is still taking place when the blurb gets to the bottom of the template, it can then (at the discretion of an admin) be transferred into Ongoing rather than just roll off. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:07, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted per WP:IAR. Yes, I know it's my own nomination, but I didn't contribute to the article, consensus here is clear, and nobody else seems to be around. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Resignation of Giuseppe ConteEdit

Article: Giuseppe Conte (talk, history)
Blurb: Giuseppe Conte resigns as Prime Minister of Italy.
News source(s): CNN, BBC, NYT, AP, WX Post
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Another Italian government kicks the bucket. Davey2116 (talk) 16:38, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment If I am reading these articles right, this is the announcement of the plan to resign. If that's right, let's wait until he actually does. --Masem (t) 16:49, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose (for now) I agree with Masem: when he actually does announce, this would be better to post (pending the update of his wiki article) --mike_gigs (talk) 17:15, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose As I understand things, this is just a formality preliminary to a general election. The election and any change in government is what we would post. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:21, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Removed the ITNR tag - "Changes to the head of government are discussed on their own merits." GreatCaesarsGhost 17:36, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – He's "tendered his resignation," but has been asked to stay on as a caretaker PM until ... the ice cream melts?
    A separate article on 2019 Italian Political Crisis would be appropriate. (Ongoing?) – Sca (talk) 20:31, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose local politics; userbase bias. Italy is a country of 60 million people and is not a great power. We can't possibly post every time some government resigns in some country somewhere in the world. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 21:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC) blocked IP sock
    Of course we can. Opposing based on population and perception of "great power"ness is absurd. This will, however, be posted once a new head is elected. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 22:34, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
    For example, the UK and France are both permanent security council members, yet they have "small" populations as well. Your reasoning is really absurd. --BoothSiftTalks 06:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
    In response to the IP editor, we post about every country, big or small. That said, it's bizarre to consider Italy - the 23rd largest by population out of 193 UN member states - to be too irrelevant for ITN. That would be an example of what you call "userbase bias." Cheers,  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 07:44, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose For now until he actually resigns--BoothSiftTalks 06:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
    Well, his resignation is official since August 20... chaos was replaced with crisis, as the NYT eloquently summarized in a headline. Wakari07 (talk) 22:21, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment I have no strong opinions waiting until the resignation actually occurs, but I do recall us posting Theresa May's intentions to resign long before she officially did so & certainly before the leadership election produced a replacement.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 07:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
    That nom was quite contentious for the same reasons. The supporters largely argued that the breadth and depth of coverage was the reason to post, which I find specious. Of course the big anglophone countries are going to get more media coverage - due to the media bias that we seek to ignore in our decision making. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Question: does anyone know how long it is likely to take to select the successor? I'm hesitant to post the same story twice in rapid succession, but a change of PM in a G8 country is important enough for ITN and it's in the mainstream media now. If the process will take more than a couple of weeks, I support a blurb that says 'announces his intention to resign once a successor has been selected' or similar wording. If a successor will be in place faster than that, I prefer to wait for a combined blurb. Modest Genius talk 11:13, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Without having spend the effort to actually see what is going on, it looks like the last PM to resign mid-term took 3 days between announcement and resignation. The PM before that tendered resignation 13 Feb 2014, had it accepted on 14 Feb, Matteo Renzi formed a government on the 21st, was sworn in on the 22th, and received parliamentary support on the 25th. So we probably have about 2 weeks before the new PM takes office and this leaves the news. Then again, it might result in a new general election which will take months to sort everything out. As a note, the last time an Italian PM resigned without a general election we didn't post the resignation but did post the replacement.Rockphed (talk) 13:03, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Part of the problem is that Italian prime ministers resign with numbing regularity – there have been nearly 60 since WWII.
Sca (talk) 14:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
The Italian president said tonight that he gives the parties four days to talk. He said that Tuesday, he'll have new consultations (implying he'll then make a new declaration on either an alternative majority or new elections). But I guess he could also announce that he needs more time...Wakari07 (talk) 22:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support We can't wait until the ice caps melt. This is a major, ongoing political crisis in a major country. Wakari07 (talk) 22:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

+Comment The article to be linked to is Conte Cabinet. I briefly updated it for the events after 20 August 15:00 GMT, that is after Conte expressed in the Senate his intention to resign. Wakari07 (talk) 03:03, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support. Now that he has officially resigned, it's ITN worthy. Despite the fact that Italian governments tend to change more often than people change their underwear. Regards SoWhy 07:42, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Coalition governments are fragile by their nature, making their collapse a fairly routine occurrence in the parliamentary system. No rationale has been brought forth to justify why this is special. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
    That is a fairly unjust generalization imho. Germany has had coalition governments since 1949 and maybe a single one could have said to have "collapsed" (Schmidt, 1982). Regards SoWhy 17:44, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
    I'll remember that when the nom concerns Germany. My point is that (globally) a PM resigning is a routine event, which usually triggers a ITNR election. So posting the resignation means a double post, and that should require something special. There is no special here - just a weak coalition falling apart as weak coalitions do. If the only rationale is "Italy is an important country" that's a slippery slope. And Italy changes PMs like most people change socks. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:26, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
This chaos/crisis is special because it makes headlines for weeks now. [29] [30] Investors are in an odd wait-and-see lethargy. [31] It's also unique that "If the country does head to new polls in the coming months, the current parliamentary term would become the shortest in Italian republican history." [32]. Plus: the entire Senate was recalled from recess [33], and if elections are decided it would be the first time they'd be held in autumn or winter [34] etc. Of course, Salvini has the poll numbers in mind. For me, it's like WP:Snow in summer. Wakari07 (talk) 19:31, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - resignation of the head of the government of a G7 country is definitely ITN-worthy. Whether it's a coalition government or not is irrelevant. -Zanhe (talk) 21:44, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Suggest Close because the eventual new nomination will have a different target article, wording, effective date, etc.130.233.3.90 (talk) 11:25, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Agree. Stale. Sca (talk) 13:54, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
Will be archived automatically in a few hours anyway, but Prez Mattarella has reserved tomorrow for more talks [35]. We can then probably complement the proposed blurb with early elections or a different coalition (Conte?) government. Stay tuned 🧐 Wakari07 (talk) 16:55, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) Interstellar iron-60 detected in Antarctic snowEdit

Closed per WP:SNOW. Consensus indicates posting is not likely. (non-admin closure) INeedSupport :V 20:11, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: iron-60 (talk, history)
Blurb: ​Interstellar iron-60 detected in Antarctic snow
News source(s): PRL, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
 Count Iblis (talk) 12:00, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Interstellar 60Fe on Earth was discovered 20 years ago [36] and has been confirmed several times e.g. [37]. Finding it in Antarctic snow rather than sea floor sediments does not justify an ITN blurb. Modest Genius talk 12:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per MG. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:57, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Modest Genius. The discovery on Earth would have been ITN-worthy but confirming its presence in the snow of Antarctica is not.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:22, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose No need for this to be include in ITN as per MG--BoothSiftTalks 06:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Snow way. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 12:27, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 19Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Harry B. LuthiEdit

Article: Harry B. Luthi (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): FOX
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class excellent sourcing. Our article may be short but it is beyond the stub criteria and has all the relevant public info on the ex mayor. DBigXray 07:59, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Weak support just above stub, but what's there is alright. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Well referenced but does not meet minimum content standards for RD in terms of subsections and depth of content. SpencerT•C 20:55, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
User:Spencer Thank you for the kind review, please guide me to the relevant standard for RD that states this. IMHO this is not a stub and the content covers the subject's life. Whatever public information we have on the subject is already added, what do we do now ? --DBigXray 06:12, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
My standards are to have at minimum 3 fleshed-out paragraphs with appropriate depth of coverage for the key aspects that made the person notable. Not everyone who has a non-stub article on Wikipedia will have an article that meets completeness standards for RD. For this person in particular, there is a list of political roles that he served in (Mayor, City Council Member), but no information about what he accomplished in those roles. Local sources - which are likely harder to access - could potentially have more information. SpencerT•C 15:45, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Jack Perkins (reporter)Edit

Article: Jack Perkins (reporter) (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 05:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Guo ZhenqianEdit

Article: Guo Zhenqian (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Paper
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Article is fully sourced. Died on 13 August, but announced on 19th. Zanhe (talk) 07:39, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment The article appears to be in good shape, however, 3 of the 4 sources are in Chinese with no obvious translations available. It would be appropriate that a native bilingual check before posting.130.233.3.115 (talk) 07:51, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • He is mentioned in plenty of English sources, but I haven't added them because they're not detailed enough. See this book, for example, which does mention some of his major positions. -Zanhe (talk) 08:17, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Mohammed Zahur KhayyamEdit

Article: Mohammed Zahur Khayyam (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NDTV
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article. Sourcing needs work Now Excellent sourcing. Music composer. DBigXray 18:25, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose Entire paragraphs are unreferenced, including the entire Early Life section as I am aware. You are indeed correct that sourcing needs work. --BoothSiftTalks 00:15, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Nice work-- BoothSift 21:58, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Notable singer of India who left a good legacy. However, I agree that paragraphs need sourcing as person is recently passed away.— Harshil want to talk? 07:33, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose nowhere near ready. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:05, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
    Weak support I'm switching to "ws" because the amount of work done has been excellent, the article needs a serious copyedit and a proseline assassination attempt, but it's far better than it was. Great work. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support One of the best known music composers of India who has received state funerals and numerous national awards during his career Manish2542 (talk) 19:42, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
    No-one is questioning the notability, but the article is junk. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 22:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Sourcing issues in the article. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:31, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks folks for your kind review. I understand that all the controversial (or challengable) facts in a BLP need sources. Several editors are working to improve this page. It will be helpful for all of us, if you can add Cn tags in the article or point them here or on the talk page. regards. --DBigXray 06:56, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed The sourcing issues have all been fixed. Took tremendous amount of work and teamwork with User:Fylindfotberserk and User:Vrishchik. The article needs a review again. Courtesy ping User:Boothsift, The Rambling Man, User:Coffeeandcrumbs--DBigXray 17:14, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – Marked ready. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
 C Twelve hours and still waiting. --DBigXray 11:59, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. Could use some more copyediting and sections in careers, but meets minimum standards and there is consensus to post. SpencerT•C 12:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Jagannath MishraEdit

Article: Jagannath Mishra (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 08:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose sourcing poor in some areas. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:46, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Tense problems and general language issues throughout. Many terms ("lahks[lots?] of teachers", "mince his words", "the Center", "draconian", etc.) are not understood outside of India, editorial, or otherwise problematic. Many of the claims, especially in the lede, seem hagiographical, and I am not in a position to know whether they are true because there is no source for them. I assume that the suffix "-ji" to a name indicates then unsuffixed person in the Bihar Press Bill section; this makes for rather confusing reading. The Publications section is lacking entirely. It's a little suspicious that someone with so long a publication history would not have a single reference to even one.130.233.3.115 (talk) 10:14, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  Working 130.233.3.115 thanks for reviewing. I have removed lakhs (FYI lakh =0.1 million). The suffix ji is honorific, and I have removed them. Lack of sources may be attributed to Internet WP:BIAS. I am working to fix your other concerns as well. Some help in copy editing will be appreciated. --DBigXray 10:30, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed the issues have been fixed. Kindly review the article again. --DBigXray 12:59, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. Adequately updated and sourced; and prose is improved. SpencerT•C 20:52, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

August 18Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Politics and elections

(Closed) US missile testEdit

No consensus to post. Stephen 22:55, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (talk, history)
Blurb: ​The United States conducts its first intermediate-range missile since withdrawing from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with Russia.
News source(s): Sydney Morning HeraldBBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The US has recently withdrawn from this significant Cold War-era treaty. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:37, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose We just posted the withdrawl. And it was known that the US was getting ready to do this test ASAP after the withdrawl. Not a significant event for ITN. --Masem (t) 21:46, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose just business as usual now. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:02, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Masem. Modest Genius talk 10:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak support. Yes, we did post the US withdrawal from the ITN recently. But I don't think it was clear then or was a given that U.S. will quickly resume testing that had been prohibited by the ITN, and the consequences of such a possible resumption were not clear as well. For example, it was possible that there would be a push of some sort to conclude a new treaty. However, on Aug 22, after the U.S. test, there was a UN Security Council meeting[38], called by China and Russia, and it became apparent that nobody is in the mood to push for a new treaty. China then explicitly stated that it is not interested in negotiations for a potential new treaty [39]. Then Putin ordered the Russian military to prepare a "symmetrical response" to the U.S. test [40]. So now it appears that a period of a missile arms race will follow. That seems significant enough to me. Nsk92 (talk) 17:09, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Jack WhitakerEdit

Now stale.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Jack Whitaker (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): ESPN NBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Start Class article. I am working to improve the sourcing. DBigXray 05:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed lot of improvements made since you last reviewed. The Rambling Man, Please review again. --DBigXray 08:45, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Weak support one minor claim left unreferenced at this time, article is improved, well done. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:04, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed thank you. I have referenced that claim now.--DBigXray 09:40, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Kathleen BlancoEdit

Now stale.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Kathleen Blanco (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NYT, CBS News
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: American politician, former governor of Louisiana (2004–08) dies at age 76. Article needs lots of work. Davey2116 (talk) 00:06, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not in close shape for posting. --Masem (t) 00:21, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Masem. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment This article may have been edited by a serial copyright violator with a particular interest in Louisiana politics – please check this link. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 22:33, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2019 Canary Islands wildfiresEdit

No consensus to post. Stephen 22:54, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 Canary Islands wildfires (talk, history)
Blurb: ​9000 people are evacuated from their homes due to the second wildfire within a week in Gran Canaria, the worst to hit Spain in the last six years.
News source(s): BBC, Euronews, Sky News, El País, AP, Guardian, AFP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is a significant event in Spain; it is being covered by all national news outlets as well as significant international ones. In addition, the Canary Islands are a popular summer tourist destination, although tourism has not yet been affected by the events. Vishal dh (talk) 10:03, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose local event that happens commonly, without casualty figure or anyother reason that makes it notable of blurb. --DBigXray 10:10, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – Some 8,000 evacuated; fires said to be "out of control," spreading. (Two sources added.) – Sca (talk) 13:37, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Should this cause significant damage then it would make sense to post, but just the existence of wildfires or the evacuation order isn't sufficient for posting. --Masem (t) 16:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait As of right now it has not yet caused sufficient damage to be internationally notable. However, if the fire threatens a major population centre, or if the fire destroys the UNESCO site on Gran Canaria, then that would change. And I will note that the fire is rather close to both of those. NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:13, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait per Masem & NorthernFalcon. Modest Genius talk 18:22, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Wait – No fatalities (yet), but this 24,000-acre (38 sq. mi.) wildfire remains out of control despite 1,000 firefighters and 14 water-dropping helicopters and planes. By any standard – including those of the Western U.S. – that's major. Let's keep an eye on it. – Sca (talk) 14:01, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
PS: Possibly a candidate for Ongoing. – Sca (talk) 14:05, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Didn't take long for the California fires to be posted, as I remember that was before reports of people dying, and I think a good part of an entire island with threats to a WHS is more important internationally and historically than celebrities' houses, as sad as any kind of destruction is.
And I'm pretty sure the Tenerife fire on the 18/19 was actually within the Teide UNESCO WHS already. Kingsif (talk) 17:26, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
@Kingsif: fwiw the California wildfires in November 2018 (I'm assuming its these, specifically the Woolsey Fire because of the celebrity homes) were posted with 25 confirmed deaths and the near-total destruction of Paradise, CA in the Camp Fire. It was nominated when the destruction became evident, and the deaths were confirmed by the time it gained support for posting. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 09:59, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Which is fair and sad, but a wildfire in one of two island volcano WHS (not caused by the volcano) and another WHS that only got designated this year is also pretty tragic, whether there's people killed or towns destroyed. Kingsif (talk) 14:04, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – Number of evacuated grown to 9000, affected area grown to 10,000 ha (over 6% of the entire island). Article updated to reflect latest information. Vishal dh (talk) 05:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 17Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Cedric BensonEdit

Article: Cedric Benson (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: C Class article with good sourcing DBigXray 08:59, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Calling for NFL experts to help with sourcing. User:Bagumba please take a look. --DBigXray 06:50, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Kip AddottaEdit

Article: Kip Addotta (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): THR
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Comedina frequently on Carson, but probably his legacy is the pun-filled song "Wet Dream". Article is almost there, releases need sources. While died on 13th, family only just announced his death on 17th. Masem (t) 15:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) 17 August 2019 Kabul bombingEdit

Article: 17 August 2019 Kabul bombing (talk, history)
Blurb: 63 non-British/American people were killed in Kabul bombing.
Alternative blurb: ​At least 63 people are killed in a bombing of a wedding in Kabul, Afghanistan.
News source(s): Al Jazeera, AP, BBC, Guardian, AFP
Credits:

 Abutalub (talk) 10:44, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support alt blurb. This news is the headline of every news site across the world. --DBigXray 11:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - headline news.BabbaQ (talk) 12:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – in principle due to high mortality. However, two-thirds of the current article consists of comments from assembled notables, while descriptive text is a spare 170 words. Further, the article's statement that "there were no immediate claims of responsibility" is misleading, as RS reports from AP, BBC, the Guardian and AFP say the local 'IS' affiliate claimed responsibility. – Sca (talk) 14:06, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - High casualty, hence notable as well - Sherenk1 (talk) 13:04, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak support - not the most comprehensive article imaginable but covers the bases satisfactorily. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:14, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted - Article may be short but that's about as much as major sources are reporting this morning, so should be fine. --Masem (t) 15:17, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
    Masem Don't link Afghanistan please. Common geographical location. Plus, consistency in the template too. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:24, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
    Fixed. --Masem (t) 15:27, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • What a terrible blurb. Who proposed this first blurb? – Ammarpad (talk) 15:36, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Snide. – Sca (talk) 20:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Post-posting comment – Still quite thin. – Sca (talk) 20:52, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
    • I spot checked the latest news on this and there's not much else to say, that doesn't get into politicizing the incident (which is mostly speculation on the current US-Afghanistan talks, which we shouldn't post.) --Masem (t) 20:56, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • User:Masem please make it 80 dead and 160 injured : src reuters--DBigXray 13:02, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
    • FWIW fixes like these should goes to WP:ERRORS (so more eyes see it). --Masem (t) 13:24, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
      • User:Masem thanks, I will post there as well. I would not call this an error. Current events are expected to evolve and would need updation accordingly. regards. --DBigXray 06:21, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Damodar Ganesh BapatEdit

Article: Damodar Ganesh Bapat (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NDTV
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing. Indian social worker. DBigXray 08:33, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

The Rambling Man thanks for the feedback, I have further expanded the article. --DBigXray 16:05, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - looks fine. -Zanhe (talk) 01:49, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • SupportAmmarpad (talk) 03:37, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 05:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

August 16Edit

International relations
Law and crime
  • Death of Jeffrey Epstein
    • The death of accused sexual trafficker Jeffrey Epstein is ruled a suicide by hanging by the New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. Epstein's attorneys say they will be conducting their own investigation into his death. (CNN)

RD: Richard Williams (animator)Edit

Article: Richard Williams (animator) (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Multiple award-winning director. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 17:02, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Filmography needs more sourcing and there's no prose about his death, just a single reference in the lede. Spengouli (talk) 18:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: José NápolesEdit

Article: José Nápoles (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Boxing legend. " one of the greatest fighters of all time". Start Class article, sourcing needs some volunteers. DBigXray 15:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment Generally regarded as one of the great welterweight fighters. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose almost entirely unreferenced. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 11:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose There are 7 sources listed, but it looks like none of them are in the main article text. Rockphed (talk) 19:51, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

RD: Peter FondaEdit

Article: Peter Fonda (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

 Masem (t) 23:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment I can see someone arguing for a blurb here , but before we go that road, this is a poorly sourced article. And if someone tries to sweep the filmography (unsourced) to a separate article, that's not appropriate per recent discussion on the ITN talk page. Let's get this up to RD quality first before we talk a blurb. --Masem (t) 23:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose far from ready, but never a blurb in any situation. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 06:10, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
WP:DENY.--WaltCip (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Support RD, support blurb We've posted some black woman writer I've never heard of a few weeks ago simoply because she was a black person with a Nobel prize (in literature!). Fonda clearly deserves a blurb then. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 07:51, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
I don't see the criteria that says if 5.44.170.9 hasn't heard of someone, they can't be posted. I think it's also mildly offensive that you indicate Morrison was posted because she was "some black woman" who received a Nobel prize. 331dot (talk) 10:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Find me another nobel prize in literature winner who's death was posted as a blurb on english wikipedia over the past 10-15 years. It's self evient she was only posted because she was 1) woman 2) black for anyone who isn't lying to themselves 5.44.170.9 (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
P.S. The fact that my comment is considered to be "offensive", and was even removed as such speaks volumes about the state of this website in 2019 as well as confirms what I said. No wonder the vote succeed, if all opposition is declared offensive and is immediately removed/banned from the website. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
We would have blurbed the first white man to win the Nobel Prize in Literature when he died too! Does knowing that make you feel better? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:55, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
If you don't like the state of Wikipedia, perhaps you should find somewhere else to spend your time and make your offensive statements. 331dot (talk) 12:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
@331dot and Coffeeandcrumbs: The IP is trolling. I deleted their original comment for race baiting, but was reverted. -Zanhe (talk) 19:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
The IP seems to be making a WP:POINT. If someone who knows how comes along it would be worth collapsing this convo.--Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb This blurbed death thing is getting out of control. Not every really famous person gets a blurb just because you like them. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
To note, I would be against this as a blurb myself, but was only cautioning here because of how his death was being handled in newspapers as "oh gosh, a major loss!", and wanted to address the major block to that point first. --Masem (t) 19:47, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Masem, I wanted to do the same thing. RD only. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:57, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose both Unsourced early life chunks, disproportionate Twitter beef, just OK in his field. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:01, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb As per Muboshgu--BoothSiftTalks 20:34, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb – In view of the subject's somewhat checkered film oeuvre. – Sca (talk) 20:47, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb I'm not seeing blurb-level fame here. Should be RD.--Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment The article is locked, but I've left my suggestions for CN resolutions on the talk page. It's a shame to see RD half-filled with barely-not-stubs of completely un-notable people, while a widely-recognized name gets left off. Oppose blurb, died of natural causes. I take that other IPs point, though, I think it better to not repeat mistakes.130.233.3.115 (talk) 06:50, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment is there a well-grounded reason why Fonda is still ignored in RD? --Biafra (talk) 13:49, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
    • RDs for the ITN box on main page must show a level of quality representative of what WP can be. Fonda's article remains drastically poorly sourced throughout, and no one has bothered to update it. --Masem (t) 13:52, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
      • understood. i'm just wondering that lot of other persons who were (still are?) visible there are with poorer and weaker quality... --Biafra (talk) 06:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Felice GimondiEdit

Article: Felice Gimondi (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Sport Sky
Credits:

Nominator's comments: One of only seven cyclists to have won all three Grand Tours of road cycling (Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, and Vuelta a EspañaHolapaco77 (talk) 18:44, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Princess Christina of the NetherlandsEdit

Article: Princess Christina of the Netherlands (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NL times
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article. DBigXray 15:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose Early life section looks to be entirely unreferenced, and other issues thereafter. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:13, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. Article needs some spit polish in several areas. In the realm of referencing, there are many more inline cites needed. While some stuff is uncontroversial and easily verifiable (like the fact that she had three sisters, etc.) other stuff which is more open to interpretation or not readily available in the public record, like "Christina was a bright and happy child, with a considerable talent for music. She also had a capacity for languages and as a young girl delighted the visiting President of the French Republic, René Coty, by conversing fluently with him in French." and the information on the faith healer, and several other places, needs direct inline citations. Furthermore, the article is woefully incomplete, it looks like she did nothing of note between changing her name in 1963, getting married and having children in the 1970s, and dying in 2019. Surely in four decades there's something worth reporting that happened in there? It does need some work. --Jayron32 15:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Lets get people looking this article and fixing it! All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:41, 16 August 2019 (UTC).
  • Support per improvements. Weak Oppose - A few missing citations left in a couple of sections, as editors above have pointed out. If this is resolved, please ignore this !vote or consider it a support !vote.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 05:02, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed all major issues. A lot of good work has been done by several editors to improve this. It needs a review again.--DBigXray 17:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose Still missing citations for some areas. Kingsif (talk) 17:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed added more citations for the missing ones and expanded the article more. Now every major info is reliably sourced. please review. courtesy ping, The Rambling Man, User:Jayron32, User:Vanilla Wizard, Kingsif--DBigXray 18:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Great work, thank you! I've struck my previous comment and replaced my !vote.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 19:35, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
User:Vanilla Wizard thanks for reconsidering your !vote. I have made some further improvements to the page as well. Hope it gets posted before getting archived --DBigXray 06:19, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – Looks good to go. Marked ready. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 06:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posting. --Tone 07:50, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Tone, can someone give the credits. --DBigXray 12:04, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
now done by Tone.--DBigXray 13:05, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

August 15Edit

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: V. B. ChandrasekharEdit

Article: V. B. Chandrasekhar (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Former India Cricketer dies Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:37, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) Ural Airlines Flight 178Edit

Article: Ural Airlines Flight 178 (talk, history)
Blurb: ​All 233 people on board Ural Airlines Flight 178 survive as the aircraft crashlands in a cornfield following a bird strike in both engines of the Airbus A321 (aircraft pictured) operating the flight.
News source(s): BBC, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Not quite the Miracle on the Hudson, but close. Mjroots (talk) 15:40, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose - I know it's refreshing to see an airline story that isn't a catastrophe for once, but "plane lands safely" is not really newsworthy.--WaltCip (talk) 16:00, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. A successful emergency landing with no casualties isn't a significant story. Modest Genius talk 16:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Comment - The Miracle on the Hudson was a "plane lands safely" "with no casualties" story and it was posted. Mjroots (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
      • Over a decade ago. I'm not convinced it would meet today's ITN criteria for that exact reason. Modest Genius talk 17:15, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. When was the last time pilots made an emergency landing of a large wide-body jet on rough terrain with full fuel tanks after both its engines failed and managed to avoid any deaths or serious injuries? This is a miracle on Hudson-tier event, IMO 5.44.170.9 (talk) 16:11, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Given the distance and angle from the runway, it seems that the plane did not climb to any significant height or yaw/turn from the "liftoff vector" (pardon my terminology). As such, a successful ditch is not nearly as remarkable as that if 1549. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:31, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose. It is good that there were no fatalities, but a successful emergency landing does not quite make it to the INT level. There are several other Russia stories, such as the 9M730 Burevestnik situation and the current mass protests in Moscow, that are a lot more significant. Nsk92 (talk) 17:46, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I think the idea that "if they'd only all just died, this would be postable!" is pretty nonsensical. Banedon (talk) 19:08, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
    "Nonsensical" is quite a strong word here. You can simply disagree with the opposers without it. Our opposes are based on the fact on the ground not because we relish death. If they indeed all died, the story would have been completely different. The Russian government, Aviation stakeholders, US and Airbus would have issued series of statements. Media would have gone agog with scoop and images, flights would be delayed/canceled. A high-level investigation panel would have been established, technical investigators would have been imported from US/France to start studying the remnants of the plane. That's a STORY and what differentiate the others with this. There are almost 10 air crashes that happened after the last one we posted here. This one is not different from them. – Ammarpad (talk) 14:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WaltCip. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:34, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – A nice "brite" (as they used to say in the noozbiz), but not really significant. – Sca (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per Banedon. I believe this is notable enough for ITN and the article is good. Davey2116 (talk) 22:44, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above. The article is good, but I believe this is not notable enough for ITN. MSN12102001 (talk) 23:24, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose it's a good news story but is already getting stale. Not much of encyclopdic long-term value, aircraft routinely suffer bird strikes, we won't be learning an awful amount from this incident other than a tick in the box for the pilot and for Airbus. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 06:15, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per others above--BoothSiftTalks 06:25, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. This would be like not posting Apollo 13 because the astronauts lived. Sometimes a "successful failure" is still notable. 331dot (talk) 07:56, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I would further add the points that there were more injuries here than with the Hudson River event, and we don't often post things related to Russia. 331dot (talk) 08:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I think comparing a bird strike (daily occurrence) and successful controlled descent into terrain (from a few hundred metres) with Apollo 13 (the third ever attempt at a moon landing, tens of thousands of miles in space, 50-odd years ago, employing the scientific minds of NASA to find a solution....) is the biggest stretch of imagination I've seen today. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:30, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I was not making a direct comparison other than the fact that people do not have to die for something to be notable. Please link to stories on double bird strikes that brought down commercial aircraft from each day of the last week(since these occur daily). 331dot (talk) 08:42, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Apollo 13 was not heavily followed by the public until the astronauts were in danger. 331dot (talk) 08:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Then why bring up Apollo 13? There are dozens of aircraft crashes in the past few years where nobody died. We haven't posted any of them. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:05, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
And if you read my comment correctly, you'll see I said that bird strikes are a daily occurrence. This was a bird strike. It has no long-term encyclopedic value, will have no impact on flying and hence my weak oppose. It's great that everyone survived but it's happened plenty of times. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Bird strikes do happen daily. Bird strikes that take out all engines of an airliner and result in a crash landing in which everyone survives is pretty much a "less than once in a decade" event. Mjroots (talk) 11:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Sure, but ultimately it was a controlled descent into terrain in which everyone survived. That has happened more than one a decade. You can intersect as many different aspects as you like to make it unique, but ultimately it's just crash from which everyone escaped but nothing will change, the EV is very low. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 11:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
What definition of EV are you using? 331dot (talk) 12:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Clearly one that's wildly different from you as this is in no way comparable to Apollo 13. This is a minor story with no long-lasting impact, it's borderline trivia. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
And FYI, some light reading which demonstrates that on any given day in the US alone, seven years ago there was an average of 28 bird strikes per day. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 13:05, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
But that does not mean that 28 commercial airliners are brought down in cornfields with injuries every day. So, since this isn't notable, I guess the Hudson River incident article should be deleted. Maybe they should take the plane out of the museum, too. 331dot (talk) 15:19, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Sure, other stuff definitely exists. I guess after a point we stop making a fuss over things that are relatively routine. Or we don't make a fuss about it at all because it happens in other countries. Who knows? As you know, they even made a movie about Sully, so it's unlikely that the Hudson page will be deleted. And also unlikely that this will be deleted either, but as for EV and newsworthiness, it's down at the bottom end of the scale. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I have not kept track about how often things related to Russia are posted in INT. But this story is really small potatoes compared with several other Russia related stories that are happening now. The 9M730 Burevestnik story, nominated below, is a much more significant event, both nationally and internationally. But by far the biggest story in Russia now is the ongoing protests related to the 2019 Moscow City Duma election. Thousands of people have been arrested, and the protests have spread significantly beyond Moscow. These are the largest protests in Russia since 2011-2013[41]. If any current Russia story deserves ITN posting, it is that one, rather than a story about an aircraft birds strike. Nsk92 (talk) 08:51, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per 331dot. Also, there is precedent as 5.44.170.9 points out above, with US Airways Flight 1549 which was posted to ITN when it happened. Regards SoWhy 08:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per 331dot and SoWhy. ——SerialNumber54129 08:26, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose A passenger plane crash in which everyone survives is quite common. For example: [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] and this only includes large passenger aircraft since 2018. At least one of those stories involved a plane landing in the water similar to the Miracle on the Hudson. I will grant that of these six crashes, this story is the most notable because it involved the largest aircraft. However, while it is a heartwarming story, I don't believe it is notable within an international context. NorthernFalcon (talk) 08:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Opposing this is not easy because it may sound like expressing some pessimistic thought because no one died. But a plane crash in which everyone survives is really not news and would be forgotten soon, in a matter of weeks at most. Whereas those with heavy fatality tend to make lasting impression to the families of victims, affect government procedures and aviation industry in general. That's why we post them, not because we relish fatality. It's just how human mind perceive events since time immemorial, we cannot change this here on Wikipedia. I've to add that, the analogy to old posting (10 years ago) is not relevant here. The same thing would not be posted if it were to be judged with today's criteria. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment An American plane, with American passengers, landing on an American river would not be reported these days? Don't make me laugh. Complete fiction. Leaky caldron (talk) 09:53, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Mostly per Ammarpad, though I disagree on 1549. There's a big difference between a control descent 60 seconds after liftoff on your original trajectory and maneuvering an engine-less A320 to avoid crashing into a dense urban area. I would agree it was much fluffed up by having occurred in the "capital of the world." GreatCaesarsGhost 13:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support on the principle that we have posted near-disasters in aviation before, and otherwise meets quality and newsworthiness, and that its clear if we didn't at this point, we are showing bias. It's still being considered a major accident in terms of aviation - it is being given the same thorough investigation that a crash would have had (for those asking about lasting impact). Even if the "difficulty" of the safe landing between this crash and the 1549 flight is far different, it still was fast action to save a large number of lives. --Masem (t) 14:00, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Per 331dot, basically, but I'd more like to point out that this is definitely on the news from what I've searched, so there is at least a notability aspect to it. Plus, it was still an accident, so it's not like nothing happened, though I wouldn't call it an Apollo 13. Pie3141527182 (talk) 18:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support A large commercial airliner landing in a cornfield is not a routine occurrence. That there were no fatalities should not be a bar to it being significant or newsworthy. -- KTC (talk) 19:57, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – Now he's officially a Hero of Russia – demonstrating that hype knows no borders. What next – a jaunt to the ISS? He was just doing his job, for which he evidently was well-trained. – Sca (talk) 20:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)  
  • Support – NPOV. Precedent shows that if this happened in U.S., France, UK, Australia, or Canada, we would have posted it. We should set our personal feels aside and post this. It is in the news and the Hero of the Russian Federation is a nice kicker showing high notability. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
    Please AGF - the rationale given in opposition is perfectly reasonable, there is no cause to imply bias. And only one prior nom has been provided for precedence, and it is 10 years old. ITN has changed a lot in that time. Read that discussion; its crazy it got posted. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:25, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
    I include myself in bias and bias is not bad faith. It is a fact of life. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:53, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Marking as ready - article in good shape, awards of Russia's highest civilian medals to crew adds much weight to notability, its in the news and Russia is generally under-represented at ITN. Support reasons seem to outweigh oppose reasons. Mjroots (talk) 07:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
    You should know much better than to mark your own nomination as ready. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:31, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
    Marking one's own nomination as ready is allowable, as an independent admin can either post it or overrule. What is an abuse of admin tools is to post one's own nomination, especially where there are opposes. You will notice that I have not done this. Mjroots (talk) 09:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posting. --Tone 09:46, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
    Wait, what? I understand that a simple majority is not enough to be considered consensus, but how can consensus exists when the majority of editors are in opposition? 75.188.224.208 (talk) 17:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment can we switch the image please? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:22, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Post-posting comment  "I really don't feel like a hero," Capt. Yusupov said. "I did what I had to do." – Sca (talk) 15:17, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Vidya SinhaEdit

Article: Vidya Sinha (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Hindu
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with decent sourcing I am working on the filmography now excellent sourcing. DBigXray 15:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed The sourcing issues have all been fixed now. The Rambling Man please review again.--DBigXray 07:34, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Support satis. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
thanks Tone, can someone post the credits. regards.--DBigXray 12:35, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
now done by Tone.--DBigXray 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

August 14Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Frank TsaoEdit

Article: Frank Tsao (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Straits Times, SCMP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: multinational shipping magnate. Died on August 12, announced on August 14. Zanhe (talk) 00:46, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Short but adequate. One could wish for a few more references for diversity of coverage, but the ones cited appear to be RS and the article is acceptably cited. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. It would be preferable to have a couple more sources since ref [1] goes up to [r] but otherwise fine.  Nixinova T  C  06:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
@Ad Orientem and Nixinova: I've added more sources and content, including several published books. I've only included sources with in-depth coverage of him. -Zanhe (talk) 19:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) August 2019 Philadelphia shootingEdit

AGF nom that won't gain traction. Six injuries and no deaths isn't notable in the grand scheme of things in the US. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:37, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: August 2019 Philadelphia shooting (talk, history)
Blurb: ​In the United States, six Philadelphia police officers are shot.
News source(s): CNN, NBC News
Credits:

Article needs updating
 Davey2116 (talk) 23:26, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Limited long-term impact. Given the US's history of shootings, article doesn't make it clear how this event stands out among the dozens of other ones that have happened this year. SpencerT•C 01:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Fails WP:BODYCOUNT. Mass shootings are far too common in the US to post all but the most serious. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:49, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment The article is nowhere near ready for the main page as of now. But lets be honest, people don't shoot at cops every day in the U.S. This is not normal. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:50, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose This looks like they got shot while on duty, responding to a general gang shootout. While sad, this is equivalent to military personnel dying in aircraft accidents. It's nowhere close to the previous shooting events. --Masem (t) 01:57, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose no deaths (Thank God!), and as said earlier not really newsworthy in the U.S.. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 03:28, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Nyonoksa evacuationEdit

Closed in favor of #9M730 Burevestnik. – Ammarpad (talk) 18:26, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Nyonoksa (talk, history)
Blurb: ​In the wake of an unexplained explosion at a nuclear testing facility near Nyonoksa, Russia, local residents are ordered to evacuate by Russian officials.
News source(s): New York Times, The Independent,
Credits:
Nominator's comments: May need a better target; there's enough on Google to create a new article if needed. Jayron32 16:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ningali LawfordEdit

Article: Ningali Lawford (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start class article. Death reported on 14 August. DBigXray 06:11, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Polly FarmerEdit

Article: Graham Farmer (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Age
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The article is currently the subject of a Requested move from Graham Farmer to Polly Farmer. The latter is the person's clear common name and is already a redirect. HiLo48 (talk) 03:34, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose A few unsourced patches, but the article is not far off. Hrodvarsson (talk) 04:54, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
@Hrodvarsson: I have added a couple of references that cover his awards, and membership of premiership teams. Are there other concerns? (Maybe you could cn them.) HiLo48 (talk) 06:40, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support he is probably one of the first Excitement Machines of the VFL and WAFL. — Bronwyn Gannan (talk) 08:12, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support a notable Australian Rules Footballer recognized as such across Australia. Dan arndt (talk) 09:47, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose a sprinkling of [citation needed] tags in there which must be resolved before posting. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
All fixed. OK now? HiLo48 (talk) 11:43, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Support good to go. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 16:12, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb - Literally considered a Legend in his field.--WaltCip (talk) 15:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Not sure that Aussie rules is a big enough field though.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:42, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Waverley Park's field was originally 200 metres long and 160 metres across. That's a big field in my book.--WaltCip (talk) 15:51, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
@Pawnkingthree:, yes, it's a sport you're obviously not familiar with. I suggest you have a look at the attendances at games. See List of sports attendance figures#Top 10 leagues in average attendance. HiLo48 (talk) 22:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
It was never going to get a blurb, HiLo48, that was the only point I was making. Attendances have nothing to do with it. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
You made no point that I could see, and it was a typical comment from someone not familiar with a particular sport, and consequently denigrating it. And you're still doing it. HiLo48 (talk) 08:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD referencing issues appear to have been resolved.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:46, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD  — Amakuru (talk) 18:14, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

August 13Edit

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents
  • According to Interfax, the governor of Arkhangelsk Oblast dismisses as "complete nonsense" the advice by authorities in Severodvinsk to residents of Nyonoksa to evacuate on August 14. This follows the accidental explosion on Thursday of what is speculated to be a nuclear-powered missile. Russian nuclear agency Rosatom says the failed test involved a "nuclear isotope power source" for a liquid-propelled rocket engine. (The Independent) (CBS News)
  • Venezuelan migrant crisis
    • A new poll from Consultores 21 suggests that at least 4.7 million Venezuelans are living outside of the country, with the range going up to 6 million — 19% of the nation's entire population in 2017. (Miami Herald)
Law and crime

International relations

Politics and elections
  • Presidency of Jair Bolsonaro
    • Hundreds of thousands of students, schoolteachers and university professors hold demonstrations across Brazil against sweeping cuts in the education budget. Protestors also voice opposition to the government's plan to delegate the administrative and financial management of federal universities and institutes to a privately-held fund. (Agência Brasil) (Telesur English)
    • Earlier in the day, over a thousand Indigenous Brazilian women, representing over 100 ethnic groups, march on Brasília after an overnight occupation of the headquarters of the Ministry of Health's Special Secretariat of Indigenous Health. Protestors chanted against the government's recent attempts at municipalization and privatization of the Indigenous health subsystem, and called for stricter environmental regulations. (BBC) (Telesur English)

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Hussein SalemEdit

Article: Hussein Salem (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: C Class article with good sourcing. Egyptian Tycoon. DBigXray 06:05, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) Typhoon Lekima (2019)Edit

Article: Typhoon Lekima (2019) (talk, history)
Blurb: Typhoon Lekima impacts the Phillipines and East China, killing 80 and causing at least US$3.47 billion in damage.
Alternative blurb: Typhoon Lekima impacts the Phillipines and East China, killing at least 80 and damaging more than 900,000 acres (3,600 km2) of cropland.
Alternative blurb II: Typhoon Lekima (pictured) impacts the Philippines, the Ryukyu Islands, Taiwan and East China, killing at least 80 people.
News source(s): BBC, NBCNews
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Very notable typhoon that has killed more people and caused more damage than most storms do. NoahTalk 01:35, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support - biggest typhoon of the year, major damage in multiple countries. Article is well sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 01:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support important and of sufficient quality. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 02:46, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support in both quality and importance, but I would not include the damage cost in the blurb. It would be better to find an estimate number of injured or displaced by the storm here, going back to past natural disasters. --Masem (t) 02:47, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Added an improved altblurb (at least, IMO) --Masem (t) 02:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support alt blurb. Sam Walton (talk) 07:42, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • There's one Twitter source which I'd prefer to be replaced with a better source, but overall this is ready. Alt blurb. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support: I've added another altblurb to add more affected regions and remove the unsourced cropland phrase. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 09:51, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per above. Ready to go. MSN12102001 (talk) 11:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - ready to go.BabbaQ (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted Altblurb II, but waiting for image to clear protection queue. --Masem (t) 15:29, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

August 12Edit

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents
  • At least 24 people die after floods strike across Vietnam. In the south, nearly 3,900 houses and more than 22,000 hectares of crops are submerged, mostly in Lam Dong Province. Floods also damage more than 30km of national roads, including the road leading to the tourist city of Dalat and destroy 142 hectares of aquarium farming and 4,300 cages of river-raised fish. (Al Jazeera)

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: DJ ArafatEdit

Article: DJ Arafat (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: I am working to fix the sourcing and expansion. Start Class article with excellent sourcing. DBigXray 07:29, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose predominantly unreferenced, and still marked as a double-stub(ble). The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
    Weak oppose needs a proper copyedit for English and encyclopedic tone. I just modified a sentence which read He had multiple motorcycle accidents one of the accidents happened in 2009 was a serious accident which, to me, would be completely unacceptable to promote on our Main Page. Other similar (but not as bad) issues exist. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 16:44, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the catch, I have done a recheck on the article to copy edit for problems. --DBigXray 05:27, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  Working yup, I am working to address these. Some help will be appreciated. :) --DBigXray 15:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed The sourcing issues. The article is expanded. Now it is a Start Class article with excellent sourcing. User talk:The Rambling Man and TDKR Chicago 101 please see if you can now support this. --DBigXray 08:14, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support It looks quite better now than when it was nominated. – Ammarpad (talk) 19:12, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted Updates mentioned above look fine. --Masem (t) 14:31, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) RD: José Luis BrownEdit

Stale, unimproved. Stephen 05:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: José Luis Brown (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NY Times, Euronews
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Former Argentina international soccer player. FIFA World Cup winner with Argentina in 1986. Article needs some referencing work. --SirEdimon (talk) 04:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose too much unreferenced material. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:40, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Lu YonggenEdit

Article: Lu Yonggen (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Paper
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Chinese scientist and philanthropist. Article is fully sourced. Zanhe (talk) 00:59, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support AGF on Chinese sources. Looks overall good. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - good to goBabbaQ (talk) 10:23, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support g2g. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 17:43, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

August 11Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks
  • Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen
  • Israeli–Palestinian conflict
    • Israeli riot police clash with Palestinians at the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Temple Mount site in East Jerusalem. With holidays coincidentally falling on the same day (11 August) this year for both Judaism and Islam, some Palestinians began protesting the admittance of Jewish visitors to the site, despite a longstanding agreement barring Jewish visitors. Following the agreement, the Al-Aqsa police barred Jews from the site. Israeli forces then fired rubber bullets and tear gas at people inside. The Jews were then admitted, which caused further tensions on both sides of the dispute. (Al Jazeera)
Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Sergio Obeso RiveraEdit

Article: Sergio Obeso Rivera (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Vatican News, Catholic Herald
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Cardinal of the Catholic Church; article short but referenced. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 15:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Appears to be fully sourced, no obvious issues. Sam Walton (talk) 19:19, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support fully sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 02:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Should we really have a "Controversy" section in this article?. I think not. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:32, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
    Fair enough. I've merged the paragraph into the Biography section. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 09:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
    And it surely looks quite more neutral now. Marked this nomination ready. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:58, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support dreadful proseline but I was holding off because of the undue weight issues with a whole controversy section, better now it's been merged. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:42, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 17:44, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

August 10Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(READY) 9M730 BurevestnikEdit

Article: 9M730 Burevestnik (talk, history)
Blurb: 9M730 Burevestnik, a Russian experimental nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed cruise missile, blows up, killing seven people.
Alternative blurb: 9M730 Burevestnik, a Russian experimental nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed cruise missile, blows up, killing seven people near Nyonoksa, Russia, as local residents are ordered to evacuate by Russian officials.
News source(s): [47][48]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I realise that as a tragedies go, it doesn't rise to the level of a truck explosion or car bombing, but these are common events and this is rare and interesting. A lot of people find these sort of accidents fascinating. And there's always the danger that one day we may wind up on the wrong end of something like this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:49, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support. Pretty important since this is a notable weapon and explosion left radioactive contamination. Oranjelo100 (talk) 02:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose As far as I understand there's no consensus among experts that the reason for the radiation leak was the Burevestnik rocket. As a reminder, the official response was that the disaster happened on a "nuclear battery unit", whatever the hell that means. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 04:42, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    I think it's clear that there has been a minor nuclear accident, regardless of the source. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose The story is still developing, but relatively little information has been made public and the article still needs improvements.--Tdl1060 (talk) 05:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    I think it's clear that there has been a minor nuclear accident, regardless of the source. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    @The Rambling Man: Yes, but since every proposed blurb is a variant on "9M730 Burevestnik explodes" and we have no indication that the explosion involved 9M730 Burevestnik, these opposes seem reasonable enough. "Something exploded, the investigation hasn't concluded what, and the evidence is pointing towards it being an accident involving an RTG (of which there are hundreds scattered across Russia) rather than a missile failure" is a tricky headline to write, let alone an article. ‑ Iridescent 20:01, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    So we just stick with RS and attribute the spike in radiation to what RS are claiming. It's not that tricky. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:04, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose For now, the mention in the article is enough. Also it is claimed that the exploded rocket used liquid fuel, and Burevestnik uses solid. And also, I think the amount of radiation released supports the claim that contamination was from a radioisotope thermoelectric generator, not a reactor. Smeagol 17 (talk) 07:47, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support The developing and important story is not only that some sort of nuclear accident occurred, but also Russian authorities’ spotty, reluctant, and self-contradictory release of information about it. Michael Z. 2019-08-14 14:24 z
  • Weak support this has re-entered the news where I live, it's clearly a very rare nuclear accident, but I think "explodes" rather than "blows up" might be more appropriate for an encyclopedia. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 16:20, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. Appears to be a significant developing story with staying power. Nsk92 (talk) 18:29, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support, perhaps with an expanded blurb about the recent evacuation of the local populace (see above; I mistakenly started a new nomination not realizing this was the same event.) --Jayron32 18:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose not on the story, but I would not be highlighting the Nyonoksa article - it is in poor shape and dominated by the missile issue. The evacuation should be covered in the missile's article. --Masem (t) 18:38, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Note CNN reported this evacuation has been canceled. – Ammarpad (talk)
  • Oppose Too soon for any conclusions. It's still not known whether the accident has anything to do with the development works on the Burevestnik cruise missile. BlackFlanker (talk) 19:07, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    I think it's clear that there has been a minor nuclear accident, regardless of the source. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    No one denies that. However, not much is known about the cause of the accident and the device being tested at the site. Russian MoD probably won't dislose these kind of informations any time soon. BlackFlanker (talk) 20:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    And, like North Korea, they probably will never disclose any information. So we go with our RS. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:01, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support This story seems to be growing in significance as time passes, due to the possibility of radiation contaminating the environment. (NorthernFalcon (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC))
  • Weak oppose Its in the news, and the article on the rocket is fine, but the more I think about this, the lack of firm details that we have, most of it being feed from the Russian government which we know we have to take with a grain of salt, I think its the type of story to avoid featuring right now because we can't be 100% of what's actually happened. I'm sure the 7 people have died from a test rocket explosion, but most of the other factors are iffy. I'd not oppose posting this outright, just that I think this is not a good story to feature. --Masem (t) 20:17, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    Well how odd. We have verification that people died here and we have that same verification that radiation has spiked. This is like a North Korean missile test. Why is it "not a good story to feature"? I think this is the strangest oppose I've ever read from you Masem. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:25, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
    It's more from the article quality stance. We know people died from the missile accident, but how much of the rest is verified. If this isn't a concern to others, then we're ready to go, but I feel this is something that has been an issue in the past (eg I want to say that the initial posting of the Mueller report were cautioned because we had no idea what was in it). --Masem (t) 20:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose – Agree with Masem. Given the relatively small number of victims, and the arcane nature of the incident, I'm not convinced this event is of ITN-level significance. And at 270 words, the article is rather sketchy. – Sca (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Notable story, with global significance and coverage. Article is short but is adequate. Davey2116 (talk) 23:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per above. MSN12102001 (talk) 11:43, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose / wait: this is tricky. It's clearly an unusual accident which is attracting a lot of media attention, but almost everything we know about it is supposition and outsider estimates. The amount of radiation released seems to be very small, though it wouldn't be the first time a cover up hid the true extent of the problem. We don't even know which missile system was involved; Burevestnik is just an educated guess which would make some Russian statements inconsistent. Based on the factual information available, I think we should treat this like any other explosion that kills seven people; so probably doesn't merit an ITN blurb. However this could well develop into something more significant if further details emerge. Modest Genius talk 12:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Also, the reports I've seen said the radiation spike was 20 times background for one hour. That is very small, less than the amount most people receive in a day and roughly 80 banana equivalent dose. Modest Genius talk 12:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Masem and Modest Genius. The verified facts in evidence don't raise to a blurb. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:03, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose As yet it's a content-free article. There's certainly interest, but as yet we have little content to offer. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:30, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

2019 Rugby ChampionshipEdit

Article: 2019 Rugby Championship (talk, history)
Blurb: ​In rugby union, South Africa win the Rugby Championship.
News source(s): RTE
Credits:

Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

Nominator's comments: ITNR and not nominated three days ago, needs work on prose for sure, but just putting it out there in case we all missed it. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:30, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose – Charticle. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:44, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • This would be good to post, but needs a prose summary of the tournament. Currently it's just a series of tables. Modest Genius talk 18:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) Explosion in Morogoro, TanzaniaEdit

Article: Morogoro tanker explosion (talk, history)
Blurb: ​A fuel tanker collides with a motorcycle, causing an explosion leading to 62 deaths and 70 injuries in Morogoro, Tanzania
Alternative blurb: ​In Morogoro, Tanzania a fuel tanker explodes, causing the deaths of 62 people and injuring 70
Alternative blurb II: ​At least 62 people died and more than 70 injured in a fuel tanker explosion in Tanzania
News source(s): CNN, NPR, New York Times, BBC, NYT 2, archive 2
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I updated the article, might have a few errors though. BoothSiftTalks 07:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support alt Blurb II. I have merged my duplicate nomination above as well as the article. The article is a well referenced start class article and ready IMHO.--DBigXray 07:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support alt 2. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – "The event was similar to one that occurred in Kenya in 2011, in which 100 people were killed." Really, says who? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support alt blurb II. Significant mass casualty incident. The problematic commentary referenced in the above oppose vote has been removed.--Tdl1060 (talk) 09:41, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per above MSN12102001 (talk) 10:36, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - per aboveBabbaQ (talk) 11:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – in principle, but both article title and blurb must specify that it was a fuel tanker truck that exploded. In Eng.-lang. usage, the phrase "fuel tanker" may refer to a ship or an airplane. Ready notation therefore removed. – Sca (talk) 14:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted, adding "Truck" per Sca.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Masem (talkcontribs)
Thanks User:Masem. Can someone post the credits ? --DBigXray 17:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
done by User:Ammarpad --DBigXray 18:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) (Posted to RD; no consensus to post blurb): Jeffrey EpsteinEdit

This can go on and on but I don't see a consensus developing. It's already on RD, so that's something. --Tone 03:36, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Jeffrey Epstein (talk, history)
Blurb: ​American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (pictured), facing numerous charges of child sex trafficking, kills himself while in U.S. federal custody.
Alternative blurb: ​In United States federal custody while facing numerous charges of international sex trafficking, Jeffrey Epstein (pictured) dies of an apparent suicide.
Alternative blurb II: ​Convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (pictured) kills himself in US federal custody during an ongoing international sex trafficking investigation.
Alternative blurb III: ​Convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (pictured) dies of an apparent suicide while in U.S. federal custody, facing numerous charges of international sex trafficking.
Alternative blurb IV: ​American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (pictured) dies of an apparent suicide while in U.S. federal custody, facing numerous charges of international sex trafficking.
News source(s): NY Times, ABC7 NY, AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Article seems to be in order because it has been in the spotlight recently so most of it has been under scrutiny. --Pudeo (talk) 13:13, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Not because of the person but the situation around him, this may be blurb-appropriate, somehing like "While facing numerous charges of sex trafficking, Epstein commits suicide while in a New York jail." or something like that. --Masem (t) 13:21, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Comment - He's definitely noteworthy enough for RD but, as pointed out above, the case around him was very notable. --2A00:23C4:3E0F:4400:65B5:3AF9:D9B7:A502 (talk) 13:35, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Comment, I also believe this individual "deserves" a blurb. A period for this indivual. --CoryGlee (talk) 13:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Updated into a blurb. Obviously gigantic story that will capture the media attention for days if not weeks Also, support alt-blurb 3 blurb. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 14:08, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – Note that Epstein is a convicted sex offender. He was convicted of soliciting underage girls. We can't say "alleged pedophile" because he has already been convicted of a crime that in layman's terms is tantamount to pedophilia. He is a convicted pedophile facing new charges. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:29, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support for 'Recent deaths' section. Störm (talk) 14:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Blurb, a local case with limited repurcussions. Should be published as ITN RD if there are no other issues.--DBigXray 14:44, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose any blurb that says committed suicide. Suicide is legal in New York and is also not a federal crime. Support altblurb. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:53, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    • "Committed suicide" is standard language in the US. We know in other countries suicide is a crime and we'd have to be more careful on wording, but in the US it's standard terminology. --Masem (t) 15:20, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
      Masem, NOT TRUE. Many U.S. media are consistently saying "died by apparent suicide".[50][51][52][53][54] The NYTimes is the only source I found that says committed suicide. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:39, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
      It is true, from my admittedly anecdotal experience, that "committed" suicide is the most common phrase used for that action. 23:49, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    Consider the source: The NYT remains the No. 1 newspaper in the U.S. and arguably the world. Further, "commit" doesn't necessarily denote a criminal act. – Sca (talk) 16:21, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Patently untrue, I don't know of a single person in even the UK that reads the NYT at all, an American option here would be WaPo, but even that's uncommon; it's not even the most circulated or bought newspaper in the US, actually, let's not base an argument on clear hyperbole Kingsif (talk) 12:30, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Clearly, you should widen your circle of acquaintances. – Sca (talk) 14:27, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • PS: Note that the hed on the AP story now says, "Officials: Jeffrey Epstein dies by suicide in jail cell," while that on the NYT page one promo says, "Jeffrey Epstein Hanged Himself in Jail, Officials Say." – Sca (talk) 16:42, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    This article in NYTimes used to say committed suicide less than an hour ago. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 16:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    I believe the reason why the media is mostly using "apparent suicide" rather than "committed suicide" is because there are doubts circulating as to whether Epstein actually died by suicide. For example: [55] Thus, the usage of "apparent suicide" in this circumstance would not necessarily disprove the usage of "commit suicide" in cases where the manner of death is certain. NorthernFalcon (talk) 07:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    • ITN has been over the "committed suicide" phrasing before, and I'm fairly certain it was agreed that it's fine. I'm not sure objections based on such wording should be counted, given past consensus. Kingsif (talk) 15:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
      • With significant objection. Also see sources cited above. Consensus can change. Can you offer a reason not to use altblurb. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:50, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
        • Probably that at this point in time, the cause of death is suspected suicide, the investigaton is not yet complete. (He was supposed to be under suicide watch, so there are several questions floating around). --Masem (t) 15:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
          • Hence the apparent. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
            • "Died of suicide" is too wishy-washy, IMO; "killed himself" is the best (assuming it's true and reliably sourced that he did, of course) as I've said before. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 23:49, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb – Subject was of scant general significance; notable mainly for the lurid details of his past – support RD only. – Sca (talk) 15:08, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Here's the rub - the way the case was going, with this week revealing a number of high profile individuals that were claimed to be involved with Epstein's sex trafficking, there was a likely high chance we would have posted the results of the conviction - this is a high-profile trial even if it only "local". The fact that the individual decided to end his involvement via suicide - well, he won't be convicted, but there will continue to be ongoing investigation, and the case remains of high importance. Hence why a blurb makes sense here. --Masem (t) 15:20, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
He may be important to whatever other cases may arise from this situation, but posting his death as an RD is sufficient for the record. – Sca (talk) 16:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb Wikipedia is (in theory at least) meant to be an encyclopedia, not a newspaper or a gossip magazine. Similar to Sca's comment above, the only reason this is deemed to be newsworthy is because of the nature of the allegations against him. It's extremely likely that most other people in the finance sector are not deemed to be worthy of a blurb upon their death. Chrisclear (talk) 15:21, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD only This guy is notable enough to warrant ITNC RD and I see no CN tags on his article. Multiple sources have reported his death. However, I see little hope of us ever getting the blurb correct and I'm not sure that his death warrants a blurb anyway. pbp 15:32, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Ready for RD RD is a no brainer. The article is in good shape including solid referencing. Weak Support for blurb. Although there is a sensationalist element to this story, his death does seem to meet the criteria for a blurb at WP:ITNRD. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:36, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support AltBlurb The circumstances around his death are sufficient in my view to warrant a blurb. I don't think it's being gossipy to acknowledge that. As Masem said, this was a significant trial implicating multiple high-profile individuals, and the death of the central figure seems significant. Regardless, his death should be posted as an RD if not as a blurb. Cwilson97 (talk) 15:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Alt Blurb Epstein may not seem like a hugely significant figure, but this story goes beyond him. Lepricavark (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support altblurb 2 Deserves a blurb, Epstein shouldn't be in bold if the story is not just the death but also how big the case was and the connected relevance (i.e. he wouldn't get a blurb on his own, don't make him the target). Kingsif (talk) 15:49, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    • No objection except for the spelling of paedophile. That is not common spelling in the U.S. Also see concerns by Masem of not clear cut that he killed himself. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
      • I added Altblurb3 which combines the best of both altblurb and altblurb2. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 16:05, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support one of the altblurb: This isn't just a death, this is a major development in an ongoing news story. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb Clearly. The death, rather than his life, is indisputably the story, and it is front-page news internationally. This is a significant development in his already-notable case. Davey2116 (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb - Just RD? What the hell. STSC (talk) 16:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for this enlightening comment. – Sca (talk) 16:36, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb – Specifically altblurb. This is a major news story. Kurtis (talk) 16:33, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. Blurb discussion open. SpencerT•C 16:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support AltBlurb 3 per others. Clearly meets level of significance, and has implications outside of the U.S. Spengouli (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
"Clearly" is one of the two most overused words in the English language. – Sca (talk) 16:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for this enlightening comment. :) Spengouli (talk) 16:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
"Inconceivable!" --Masem (t) 16:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
I think "prominently" is pushing it a bit. Its coverage on Le Monde is now at a par with a story about a provincial hospital. On Corriere it is not even the top ranking US story, and is ranked behind this important bit of world news. This is really a US story only, and not a particularly prominent one either. —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Not to mention this bit of world news. – Sca (talk) 22:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb. There has been a significant creep towards blurbs for RDs. These should be really exceptional. His criminal record is hardly enough to justify treatment as a world leader, and there are plenty of other financiers. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:53, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This isn't a case of a death of someone at the top of their field. The blurb is proposed because the death, rather than the person himself, is newsworthy (as per the death blurbs criteria at WP:ITNRD; if the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb). Davey2116 (talk) 19:06, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
I like the use of the word "may" there. I presume you are not suggesting that suicides are intrinsically "newsworthy" so you must be referring to the reporting of it. I must admit I do not see this at all. It is true that there has been a fair bit of rather bland coverage, but there has hardly been a "newsworthy reaction". —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:02, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb of any kind. This is a case of what-might-have-been. If he had stayed alive and his criminal case proceeded, he might have named a lot of powerful and rich people who were his "clients" and that could indeed have had major repercussions, in the U.S. one beyond. But with Epstein dead, none of this is going to happen. Also, I find the phrasing "apparent suicide" highly objectionable. There has not been any suggestion in any of the RS reporting the story that his death was anything other than suicide. Calling it "apparent suicide" casts doubt on this fact. We should not be promoting or worse yet, creating, conspiracy theories around his death. Nsk92 (talk) 17:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
On the contrary, it has not been confirmed as suicide at all. Hence we must say "apparent" or somesuch, if we have a blurb in the first place. I would lean towards not having one.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
(edit conflict) The term "apparent suicide" is used in many RS reporting on the death (e.g., NBC News, WaPo, CBS, WSJ, etc.). Davey2116 (talk) 19:06, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb - we post blurbs based on real world significance, not on sensationalism. An accused rapist killing himself is not blurb-worthy. -Zanhe (talk) 18:14, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Actually the criteria for death blurbs are listed at WP:ITNRD. This appears to meet that criteria. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Zanhe, when the accused rapist is tied to Trump and Prince Andrew, he's not just "any old" rapist. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:58, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb it is still the #1 news article on BBC.com, and it is of international news significance as well. Here in Finland they ran it as a segment in the evening TV news. It is certainly a bigger news story than what's the current top ITN now, Toni Morrison dying of old age, in any case. --Pudeo (talk) 18:28, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    [56] --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:39, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb per Zanhe, Sca et al. Sensationalized trivia. – Ammarpad (talk) 18:42, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb per above. And for the record I believe "committed suicide" is fine, it's totally standard usage and doesn't imply a crime at all. Although in this case it's complicated because the suicide is not confirmed. Best to stick to RD.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb. It briefly hit the headlines, yes, but there's no substance in any of the stories beyond "he committed suicide and also he was convicted of these things"; no sense that the death itself is widely significant. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    Vanamonde93, it's being investigated by the FBI. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    I don't see the fact that it is a suspicious death making it a death of global significance. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb as I am hearing a lot of Jeffrey Epstein in the news. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 19:27, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb An RD is significant enough. While this is the news section, Wikipedia is not a sensationalist tabloid. Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 19:30, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb: obvious international significance, and its newsworthiness is only amplified by the "he ran into my knife ten times" nature of his death. Sceptre (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    Support blurb I was thinking of "Who said anything about sabotage?!" but YEAH. It's CBALL to say imply unproven facts, but that doesn't mean we have to be so obtuse as to pretend this was a regular old pedophile who offed himself. Also, "committed" should be avoided because it is quite likely he was murdered. "died by apparent suicide" is factually true. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:26, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb given Epstein's high status. Altblurb II (which I slightly modified to use American spelling) is the best, IMO. "Dying of suicide" isn't as direct as "committing suicide", and since the latter seems to have some objections "kills himself" is the best. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 21:39, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb just another criminal avoiding justice? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 22:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Well, you can't libel the dead. – Sca (talk) 22:12, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Don't have strong opinions on whether the blurb should be posted or not, but could we not use "convicted pedophile"? As explained in the lead of pedophilia, pedophile is not the same as child molester (nor do I see pedophile being used by WP:RS); "convicted child sex abuser" or "convicted child sex molester" works better, although RS generally seem to refer to alleged child sex abuse. Galobtter (pingó mió) 22:15, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    I'm not seeing anywhere in the article that he was "convicted" of a crime called "child molesting" either - if we want to headline a person about their past crimes, we should ensure that the headline matches the article. (The article may need improving if this is lacking). — xaosflux Talk 00:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    That his victims were children should be in the blurb, but putting "child sex offender" can mean that he was a sex offender who was also a child. "Sex offender of children" works but is clunky, IMO. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 01:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb Discussion of his testimony and impact on high ranking individuals is speculation, nevertheless clearly significant story with international impact as evidenced by being lead story on UK news media. 2A00:23C5:508F:3E01:A46A:4F7A:3702:2CF (talk) 22:27, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb Meets notability for Wikipedia:ITNRD. MarvellingLiked (talk) 22:32, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment: Per concerns raised above, since pedophilia is not a crime and one cannot thus be "convicted" of it, I have edited all blurbs that contained that phrase to "convicted child molester", which is a crime. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 23:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support alternative blurb 3. Cause of death itself is a major story, so meets notability for Wikipedia:ITNRD.--Tdl1060 (talk) 02:16, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support alt blurb. Per the supports, the circumstances surrounding his death are obviously suspicious and are causing a huge media frenzy. Merlinsorca 02:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb. And “commit suicide” is fine as it is standard usage and does not equate to “criminal act.” Pawnkingthree (talk) 02:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comments. I'm fine with the "commit suicide" verbiage, it is a common phrase. As far as the "child molester" phase, this isn't used in the article at all. The article does say he has an actual conviction of "procuring for prostitution a girl below age 18", and that he was a registered "sex offender". I'd support more a blurb that used this phrasing that is already in the article lede (American financier and convicted sex offender). That, or improve the article to better support that headline first. Procuring appears to have a different definition then molestation according to their articles as well. — xaosflux Talk 04:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Literally is also common verbiage but we don't use that either because it is ambiguous and misused. "Commit suicide" is "outdated, largely inaccurate and stigmatised phrase."[61] --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    • We can use "American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (pictured) kills himself while in U.S. federal custody, facing numerous charges of child sex trafficking." --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
      • @Coffeeandcrumbs: That wording looks good. Like Xaos, I was also concerned about whether the charge he was actually convicted of can be called child molestation, but didn't have time to look into that in my original comment. I've added that as alt blurb 5 (with slight rewording to fix grammar issues). Galobtter (pingó mió) 08:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb per Captin Eek, TRM, etc. (And 'commit suicide' is perfectly acceptable English). - SchroCat (talk) 05:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    • The phrase ‘committed suicide’ should not be used because it implies criminality, thereby contributing to the stigma experienced by those who have lost a loved one to suicide and discouraging suicidal individuals from seeking help.[62] by World Health Organization --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
      • Coffeeandcrumbs, do you really think that this story is all about avoiding stigma? —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
        • Huh? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
          • @Coffeeandcrumbs: Well, It appears you brought up several links to stories and thinkpieces to show that 'commit suicide' is like a wrong grammar, obsoleted phrase or like we're 'committing' a serious grammatical gaffe by using the phrase. I think it's time to challenge that narrative. 'Commit suicide' is perfectly correct English. Period. Individually commit means to to carry into action deliberately and suicide means the act of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally: that's from American dictionary. No amount of thinkpieces and language engineering can change these meanings. Not in this decade and not even in this century. No one, not even United Nations (or any one for that matter) can prescribe overnight 'commit suicide' is wrong. So please spare us more links. We know there are attempts to dissuade its usage for some reasons, but we also know it's correct English with unambiguous meaning. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
            Ammarpad, I have never claimed it was "wrong grammar" or "grammatical gaffe". I am claiming it is IGNORANT, offensive, disparaging, and inaccurate to say that someone "committed suicide". It is an outdated and stigmatizing turn of phrase. Most importantly, ITS USE IS NOT NECESSARY! You have a perfectly accurate and acceptable alternative. Epstein killed himself. Simple, accurate, grammatically correct, use of active voice, and not a euphemism. Insisting on using "committed suicide" is POV pushing. The BBC story used to say "apparently commit suicide" and now says "apparently kill himself". We are quickly becoming the last legitimate place on the internet that uses this ignorant term. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
            That's simply not true. And as there's some debate over whether or not he was on "suicide watch", I don't think this terminology is going away any time soon from many mainstream reliable sources. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
            A quote does not count. I will email NYTimes and I guarantee you they will change this. They have done several corrections in the past 48 hours. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb significance of this compared to, e.g., ongoing Romanian / Hong Kong / Russian protests which involve tens of thousands of people over a long period of time is very minute indeed. Banedon (talk) 06:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb. "In general, if a person's death is only notable for what they did while alive, it belongs as an RD link." Suicide is a quite common response to imprisonment and serious criminal accusations. It's still the case that his death is newsworthy because he was a rich man accused of loathsome crimes. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 07:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Suppport alt blurb (I) Contrary to some opposes above, the suicide itself is also now a story with federal inquiries, including the FBI.[63]Bagumba (talk) 07:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    The FBI handle lots of cases in a year, but that doesn't particularly raise them to the threshold required for ITN. This is a local-interest story, and while his death was unexpected it's not hugely significant on a global scale.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    Shrug. Please do not ... oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one.Bagumba (talk) 09:48, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb, big international story and definitely blurbworthy. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
In this case, "big" = relentlessly hyped because prurient. – Sca (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Please consider striking this. Prurient means titillating or appealing to lustful or sexual desire. By saying this is hyped because it is prurient, you are suggesting we're all secretly getting off on stories about kids getting raped. That the crimes are of a sexual nature is true, that doesn't mean interest is likewise derived. The key points of curiosity here are 1) a rich person getting away with crimes because they are rich, and 2) connected to powerful people 3) who may themselves be complicit, 4)despite the crimes being of the sort that are not typically swept under the rug. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This user does not reply to 'users' who do not exist. – Sca (talk)
  • Comment The template appears to support only up to four altblurbs, and since no one seems to be supporting the original blurb I moved the former Altblurb V to the main "Blurb" parameter. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 15:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment – FYI, four European Wikis – German, Dutch, Spanish and Norwegian – list Epstein under 'recent deaths,' but none include him in their versions of ITN. – Sca (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    But the Chinese one does, and this is all WP:OTHERSTUFF.—Bagumba (talk) 15:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
One must wonder at the relevance of the Epstein tale to Chinese society. – Sca (talk) 15:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
One must wonder at the relevance of Solomon P. Sharp to Chinese society. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment I stress this part from ITN guidelines about deaths: For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident) or where the events surrounding the death merit additional explanation (such as ongoing investigations, major stories about memorial services or international reactions, etc.) a blurb may be merited to explain the death's relevance.. There is definitely an allowance for this story, due to the unusualness of the death (in the midst of a major story, and now with several questions being raised of how he did it when he was to be on suicide watch). It can still be opposed, but I think most supporting are not doing this in recognizing Epstein as a transformative leader. -Masem (t) 16:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Nearly 5,000 Americans committed suicide in custody in 2014 (1) and it is probably higher now. Is that unusual? —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
How many of those 5,000 Americans have substantial ties to many important people, including a sitting US President, a former US President, and a member of the British Royal Family? 331dot (talk) 21:39, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Boldly reopening. I see 25 votes supporting a blurb and 15 opposing one. How the f*ck is this not a consensus? 5.44.170.9 (talk) 04:10, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • That percentage would not pass an RFA, and in any event consensus is not a majority vote; the discussion above resulted in significant opposition that did not appear to be assuaged in the course of the discussion. Having said all that, I have no position as to whether the discussion should be extended. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 04:14, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 9Edit

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Miriam RiveraEdit

Article: Miriam Rivera (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Variety BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing. Transgender TV personality. Death announced on 9 Aug. DBigXray 14:29, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment @DBigXray: please find a way to remove the COPYVIO deleted YouTube ref. Subject appears to be notable but I would also avoid refs to The Sun tabloid. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind feedback. I have removed the Youtube refs. Sun is not being used for anything controversial. --DBigXray 06:01, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:01, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment. The article is adequate but has almost nothing on the modelling/reality television aspects which are presumable the source of notability. Seems a rather big gap.—Brigade Piron (talk) 09:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - good enough for RD now.BabbaQ (talk) 12:19, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Ready. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:23, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 06:04, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Paul FindleyEdit

Article: Paul Findley (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): State Journal-Register, Military News, Seattle TimesKko updated =
Credits:

 BoothSiftTalks 05:50, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Article has good sourcing and he was known for his anti-Zionist views. (Nonstopmaximum) 08:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - per sourcing.BabbaQ (talk) 17:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted. Sam Walton (talk) 17:23, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

August 8Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Ernie ColónEdit

Article: Ernie Colón (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: 60+ yr career comic artist across DC, Marvel and others. Unfortunately article has a ways to go sourcing wise. Masem (t) 22:59, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Weak Support While the article is of reasonable length and covers the career. The lead needs to be expanded. --DBigXray 07:28, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose no justification for uploading a non-free image within moments of this individual's death. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
    Support assuming all those works are backed up by the one source. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 16:21, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Overall ready for RD.BabbaQ (talk) 12:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Looks fine on the whole. Sam Walton (talk) 07:47, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 02:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Rosie RuizEdit

Article: Rosie Ruiz (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Marathon runner (allegedly...) who got famous by cheating her way to winning the Boston Marathon Tdunsky(Talk) 15:06, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Article is in good shape. --Jayron32 15:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose This happened on July 8, not August 8 and therefore I think this is rather stale. Rockphed (talk) 18:37, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
    If the death was not announced until now, it's eligible. – Ammarpad (talk) 20:29, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
    The article had it on 8/1 (uncited, but the details are accurate) and again on 8/5 (this time with the ref). Running Magazine had it on the 5th. This is stale. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:06, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
    No, that's not stale. Your dates are both within last week in August. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose an unref para in there. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I removed the unreferenced paragraph, rationale is in my edit summary. If someone disagrees please ping me, otherwise the article is fully referenced now. Kees08 (Talk) 01:30, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support This is ready. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 06:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Fabrizio SaccomanniEdit

Article: Fabrizio Saccomanni (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): EuroNews, Corriere del Ticino
Credits:

 BoothSiftTalks 22:40, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:25, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support This is ready. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 11:42, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) Saudi Arabia loosens travel restrictions on womenEdit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Women's rights in Saudi Arabia (talk, history)
Blurb: Saudi Arabia loosens travel restrictions on women
Alternative blurb: ​In a royal decree, Saudi Arabia loosens travel restrictions on women
News source(s): NBC, New York Times, Guardian, Jerusalem Post, Time
Credits:
 BoothSiftTalks 06:56, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose Even if true, a totalitarian dictatorship like Saudi Arabia taking one incrimental step in women liberation all the while killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in Yemen, Syria, and across the world (as well as in their own country) doesn't deserve a mention on the third most popular website's main page next to anything mentioning positive change there 5.44.170.9 (talk) 08:02, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose Law isnt passed until August next year. This is just a stament of intent at this point and changes nothing. This should be brought up if the law is actually passed85.159.132.48 (talk) 08:36, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose as premature. Unless this gains sufficient notability to justify its own article, I would likely oppose its renomination as well. That said I would gently remind those who may be unaware that we do not weigh nominations based on any political criteria. Nor do we encourage politically pointed commentary in our discussions. Please see... WP:RGW and WP:NOTFORUM. And lastly, while we may discuss to our hearts content, we ask that editors actually vote only once (even if your IP changes). -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:24, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
While I can't be sure (hence my decision not to strike the latter vote), there are some remarkable similarities in their style of commentary. So yes, I strongly suspect they are the same person. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:59, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Not the same person.... and no idea how you would come to that. I am unfamillier with how to format pages so i copy whoever is above me, still learning and my work computer wont let me log into my account. Pleasae assume good faith85.159.132.48 (talk) 08:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now, without prejudice when/if it actually becomes law. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 22:31, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Even if this were significant enough to post (I am ambivalent on that), it has now fallen from headlines. It was first reported late July and most mainstream media by August 1. Nothing substantial thereafter. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:14, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – In the global scheme this administrative change would be of only passing significance. Sca (talk) 15:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 7Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks
Disaster and accidents
  • The death toll of the heat wave in Japan rises to 57, while 18,347 others are hospitalized. (Japan Times)
Law and crime
Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Kary MullisEdit

Nominator's comments: Updated, reliably sourced, of sufficient quality sentausa (talk) 14:35, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

  • It's very close, but the last sentence of "Personal views" about being called an AIDS denialist 100% needs sourcing, and the awards need sourcing. Should not be hard to get this up before it slips off as stale. --Masem (t) 14:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
@Masem: References added. sentausa (talk) 11:28, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted though it will likely slip off shortly. --Masem (t) 13:41, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) Suicide Blast in AfghanistanEdit

Article: August 2019 Kabul bombing (talk, history)
Blurb: ​A suicide bombing in Kabul, Afghanistan, leads to 14 deaths and 145 injuries.
Alternative blurb: ​A suicide bombing in Kabul, Afghanistan, leaves 14 people dead and 145 injured
Alternative blurb II: ​A suicide bombing near a police station in Kabul, Afghanistan, leaves 14 people dead and 145 injured
News source(s): BBC, NBC, New York Times
Credits:

Article updated

 BoothSiftTalks 18:44, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support. This number of victims is remarkable. Good to go. MSN12102001 (talk) 19:18, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • We're going to need a standalone article on this before it can be ITN. --Masem (t) 19:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
I see the article but it's far too short for ITN. And checking news -- coverage is surprisingly light. I mean, we have BBC and NYTimes covering it, but its not bringing up as many hits as I thought. We do need to consider that this region is unstable, there are similar bombings happening all the time, and the news tends to be weary of it, hence the lack of coverage. --Masem (t) 22:27, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose, still a stub. Spengouli (talk) 01:01, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • @Spengouli: The article has been updated now and it is currently start class. --BoothSiftTalks 05:44, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Support, good work. Spengouli (talk) 15:29, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak support as long as we post mass shootings in the US, there should be nothing stopping us posting these terror attacks in other similarly-afflicted countries. Weak because article isn't pulling up any trees, but just adequate. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:28, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support It seems initially this was nominated without a standalone article, but now we have something and it looks presentable. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:16, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Sketchy – 190 words of real text – and such bombings are virtually commonplace for Afghanistan 18 years after the ill-fated U.S. invasion. – Sca (talk) 15:43, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • @Sca: The number of mass shootings in the US has also increased in which there are 250 already in 2019 only. That is probably more than the amount of bombings in Afghanistan so far. --BoothSiftTalks 05:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose – That article just doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid. Gonna need quite the revamp until its eligible to be on the front page. jackchango talk 22:51, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Support – Article seems good now. Significat enough attack. jackchango talk 04:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Henri BeloloEdit

Article: Henri Belolo (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): USA Today
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing. Death announced on 7 Aug, died on 3 Aug. DBigXray 11:07, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:29, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per TRM. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 16:38, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: David Berman (musician)Edit

Article: David Berman (musician) (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Rolling Stones
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article. I am working to fix the sourcing with good sourcing. DBigXray 06:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support Berman was an influential musician in the indie scene whose return from hiatus last month drew with significant press attention, including profiles in Pitchfork and the AV Club as well as a reddit AMA. The wiki article is well written, thoroughly sourced, and up-to-date. Diabolical Dr Ely 15:15, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Unsourced paragraphs. Also the "Beginnings" section is mostly unreferenced as the one source listed supports only a small portion of the section. Possibly the case further throughout the article but I am not going to check at the moment. Hrodvarsson (talk) 05:00, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose There are entirely unsourced paragraphs throughout the article. More references are needed--BoothSiftTalks 05:45, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose too much unref at this time. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed A lot of improvements have been done in the sourcing area to make it worthy for ITN RD. Requesting a review again. --DBigXray 11:47, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support – Article issues appear to have been resolved. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted - Concerns above appear to have been resolved. Sam Walton (talk) 09:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks User:Samwalton9. Can someone post the credits? --DBigXray 12:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Done by User:Samwalton9--DBigXray 07:43, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

(Closed) Tardigrades on moonEdit

Speculative trivia. Stephen 23:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Tardigrades (talk, history)
Blurb: ​Tardigrades: 'Water bears' stuck on the moon after crash
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The moon might now be home to thousands of planet Earth's most indestructible animals. 86.187.166.122 (talk) 21:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment In the unlikely event we post this, we need an actual reliable source; the one you've misleadingly labelled as "BBC" is actually Newsbeat which may technically be part of the BBC but is about as much a reliable source as a typical comic book. This story is considerably less of a story than it appears; although tardigrades do have the ability to enter cryptobiosis, they certainly won't have the ability to revive in a dry vacuum. The bacteria from Neil Armstrong's boot probably have a greater chance of lunar propagation. ‑ Iridescent 21:59, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not due to lack of reliable sources (e.g. CNN), but ITN-level significance not established. Cute picture, though! El_C 22:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
"That's one small stumble for Israel Aerospace Industries, one giant leap for moss piglets". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: J. Om PrakashEdit

Article: J. Om Prakash (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): NDTV
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing DBigXray 16:25, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support - good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose While well-referenced, the article has no sections and is too sparse in its coverage of the subject (the article and talk page still state that it's a stub); there is no lede/introduction; a good portion of the article consists of listing information in prose format (movies he produced and directed); and the longest paragraph currently in the article consists of just 3 sentences. SpencerT•C 02:05, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed User:Spencer Thanks for the useful feedback, I have expanded the article since you last reviewed. May I request you to take another look if you can support this.--DBigXray 07:47, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Looks much better now. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:19, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 11:42, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

August 6Edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections
  • Crisis in Venezuela
    • The Argentine government says it has already received "hundreds" of reports of human rights abuses and criminal accusations against the Venezuelan government, days after Argentina invited Venezuelans in the country to file reports against the Venezuelan government. (La Nación)

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Zhuo RenxiEdit

Article: Zhuo Renxi (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Paper, Sciencenet
Credits:

Article updated

 Zanhe (talk) 18:29, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support – --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:09, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support good to go. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:34, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 11:42, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Danny Doyle (singer)Edit

Article: Danny Doyle (singer) (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Irish Post
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing DBigXray 12:48, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Comment - the article seems to be incomplete at the moment... It has a "Background" section and a discography, but where's the "Foreground" section?! The main body of the article should be describing his career in a bit more detail than at present. The Books section is currently unreferenced. Other than that, this looks OK. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 12:53, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
Amakuru thanks. The background is now renamed to Biography. The Book section is now referenced. The article is a start class and covers everything that I could find in online sources. --DBigXray 13:18, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
OK, thanks. The only thing giving me concern right now is the "Selected singles" section. That always makes me wonder who did the selecting, and whether it's a representative list. Per WP:LISTCRITERIA there really should be some objective and sourced methodology used for the selection. I'll be happy to see what others say though.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:32, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • OpposeDiscogs is not a reliable source. It is user-generated/crowd-sourced. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:00, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  Fixed User:Coffeeandcrumbs Thanks for the catch, I have replaced Discogs by better sources. Please review again. --DBigXray 07:23, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:34, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 16:36, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Mrs YGPEdit

Article: Mrs YGP (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): thehindubusinessline, TNIE, The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing. DBigXray 07:56, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support - I've renamed the article to Mrs YGP, as that looks like the common name (it was only moved to YGP yesterday anyway, from Rajalakshmi Parthasarathy). Sourcing and content looks OK for a start-class article, and death is cited.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support and agree with page move. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:01, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - fully sourced, marked as ready. -Zanhe (talk) 22:13, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support good to go. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:35, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 11:42, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Sushma SwarajEdit

Article: Sushma Swaraj (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): The Economic Times Times Now
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Former Indian Cabinet Minister and one of the most prominent female politicans in India. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:56, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support While there are a few places where we need some sourcing, this is a well sourced article on the whole. Sam Walton (talk) 18:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:01, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose — Citations still needed. More importantly, there is an unnecessary WP:CSECTION. Even Donald Trump, the most controversial person in our time, does not have a controversy section. This subject certainly does not deserve one. The section needs to be merged into the relevant sections about the respective times in her career. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:59, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support A well sourced article. Yashthepunisher (talk) 05:45, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - Couple citations required. Otherwise good to go. Sherenk1 (talk) 07:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support: important article, citations should be imporved, and death section needs improvement/expansion. Will work on it. --Titodutta (talk) 12:43, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - one of the highest-ranking women politicians in Indian history, unexpected death only months after her departure from politics. Article is almost fully sourced. The few unsourced sentences are unessential and can be commented out to prevent holding up the posting. -Zanhe (talk) 22:31, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. Regards SoWhy 06:57, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

(Posted as blurb): Toni MorrisonEdit

Article: Toni Morrison (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: American novelist Toni Morrison dies at the age of 88.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 13:44, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support good article. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 15:19, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Some minor but necessary sourcing problems: about 6-7 lines in the body (roughly one per main section) are unsourced. All the books should have sourcing or at least ISBN numbers. Awards should all be sourced. But it's not so far away to be fixable in a few hours. --Masem (t) 15:31, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Counting sourcing by line seems arbitrary. Are there contentious statements in those lines? pbp 16:22, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
A few may have been fixed but " In her position at Princeton, Morrison used her insights to encourage not merely new and emerging writers, but artists working to develop new forms of art through interdisciplinary play and cooperation." in "Princeton Years" is certainly a statement that cannot go unsourced in WP voice. --Masem (t) 16:28, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
@Masem: Thank you for opposing. I think I got every taken care. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:45, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
That definitely all looks better, and so I'll go ahead and post this as RD, leaving the blurb discussion ongoing. --Masem (t) 21:51, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support pbp 16:22, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Suggest blurb - Nobel laureates who are also household names probably meet any reasonable criteria for having been a "major transformative world leader in their field". Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 16:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb I would also say Toni Morrison was a major world figure, massively loved and appreciated all over the world. Kingsif (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    • We do want to avoid "popularity" as a reason for a blurb. That got us into a mess with people like Carrie Fisher. Accomplishments is a different matter though. --Masem (t) 17:22, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb. An iconic figure in the U.S. and world literature. As the WaPo headline puts it, "Toni Morrison, Nobel laureate who transfigured American literature, dies at 88." In the interim RD is OK too, while a blurb option is being discussed. Nsk92 (talk)
  • Support RD, no blurb I don't think the reactions to the death have or will become so newsworthy, as it did with Bowie, Mandela, Prince, etc., to merit a blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb per Muboshgu.--WaltCip (talk) 18:26, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb Globally acclaimed author, Pulitzer and Nobel laureate, clearly at the top of her field. The so-called "Thatcher–Mandela standard" is not policy and is much too restrictive; and if we're comparing Morrison to Bowie and Prince, then I believe Morrison definitely qualifies for a blurb. Davey2116 (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    Davey2116, the "Thatcher-Mandela standard" is about whether the death is in the news or whether the death is the news. The Thatcher/Bowie/etc deaths were the news. Morrison's death is in the news. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:54, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Muboshgu Reactions to her death are pouring in from many other authors and even many politicians, far exceeding the average RD death, so I'd say Morrison's death is the news. Besides, the news of deaths of pop-culture or political figures have greater reach partly due to the inherent nature of those professions, while our job is to be even-handed in giving blurbs to all who are at the top of their field. Davey2116 (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb Nobel laureate and first African American woman to receive the Nobel Prize in Literature. Quite obviously a transformative leader in her field as evidenced by, e.g., Atlantic Magazine's obituary headline referring to her as "peerless". Maya Angelou, along with two dozen other authors, cosigned a 1988 letter in the New York Times Book Review saying of Morrison, "For all of America, for all of American letters, you have advanced the moral and artistic standards by which we must measure the daring and the love of our national imagination and our collective intelligence as a people." By all accounts, satisfies our criteria for a blurb. Wug·a·po·des​ 19:52, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    I want to expand on the significance of the 1988 letter. A group of some of the greatest African-American writers of the late 20th century believed that Toni Morrison was of such importance to literature and her snubs in her own country so acute, that "the legitimate need for our own critical voice in relation to our own literature can no longer be denied." They explicitly pull rank, the authors point out their own standing in the field and canon, in order to emphasize the esteem in which the field of literature holds Morrison. That these two dozen authors and critics published a joint letter in one of the United States most respected book reviews to praise not simply Morrison's work, but Morrison herself is indicative of the impact she has had on her field. For anyone mulling over whether she was one of the greatest living authors, I encourage you to read the answer her peers give to that question. Wug·a·po·des​ 20:42, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb per Wugapodes. Karellen93 (talk) (Vanamonde93's alternative account) 20:03, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support RD, weak support on blurb The article is in good shape aside from the awards list. Regarding the Mandela-Thatcher level, it was a good thing that we expanded potential blurbs first towards internationally significant personalities outside of the Western sphere, and then towards non-politicians. Does Toni Morrison meet the Mandela-Thatcher level for authors, however? Would I describe her as one of the greatest living authors? My first instinct was no. The Nobel Prize does assist in establishing greatness, but at the same time if a Nobel Prize was an automatic blurb then we'd have twelve new blurb-worthy people every year. But I decided on a weak support after noting several sources acclaiming Toni Morrison as one of the greatest female authors ever, living or dead, dating from before her death. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:15, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment. It has been remarked above that Toni Morrison was the first African-American woman to receive the Nobel Prize in Literature. Looking at the List of Nobel laureates in Literature, it appears that so far she is the first and the only black woman, of any nationality, to have received the Nobel Prize in Literature, and one of only two black people, again of any nationality, to have ever received this prize (the other recipient being Wole Soyinka). Nsk92 (talk) 20:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    Don't forget Derek Walcott. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:50, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb - remarkable woman. Article is ready as wellBabbaQ (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb – A transformative figure in her field. I have taken care of the needed citations. I hope no one minds that I added myself to credits. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:45, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Posted as RD but discussion on the blurb should continue. --Masem (t) 21:51, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support Blurb Her peers felt she was of Mandela-Thatcher level importance. If you make a list those you perceive to be the greatest living authors and they are mostly white men, that should tell you something. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb. Transformative character, and I'd say we're nearing consensus at this point.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support blurb Meets the transformative figure test, and her death is front page news. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:23, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Shifted from RD to blurb. Consensus is in favor of posting as a blurb. SpencerT•C 01:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

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