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Archived discussion for June 2009 from Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates.

June 30

ITN candidates for June 30

President of the GECF

Also this meeting of GECF is considered as a failure, the organization is described as a 'potential gas-OPEC'. Therefore, the election of the president is quite newsworthy. Beagel (talk) 11:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Support, but the Abdullah Bin Hamad Al-Attiyah article is too short, not properly formatted (needs infobox), and has only one citation. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Rewrote, formatted and added references. Beagel (talk) 12:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Still, the update is too short. Just one sentence regarding the election? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Slightly better now, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

IRENA's headquaters

This is significant new international organization with 136 signatory states. This is also the first headquarters of that kind organization in the Gulf region and in the developing world in general. Beagel (talk) 06:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Support. This is important for the region and for the agency as well. Offliner (talk) 08:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Philémon Yang
Support Per ITN/R. Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
But the update is too short yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I've updated Inoni's page. I'll try to work on Yang's now. Therequiembellishere (talk) 05:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I've mostly updated Yang's page now, although it's largely a very slight rewording of Inoni's updates, in case someone can refine them. I have to go for a it now but I'd like to incorporate this information in Yang's page too. Therequiembellishere (talk) 06:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


Can anyone update Argentine legislative election, 2009, Guinea-Bissau presidential election, 2009 or Albanian parliamentary election, 2009? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll see if there's anything I know not on the pages already but I have tried to find more on the Bissauan election and found nothing of substance before. Once substantial updates are made, support per ITN/R. Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The Guinea-Bissau results are expected for another week or so. I'll see what I can do on the other two if I get a moment. Physchim62 (talk) 08:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The Albanian election is too close to call, they are still counting the votes and it is uncertain who will be the new prime minister. In the Argentine election, Kirchner's Front for Victory suffered a major defeat and lost control of congress, despite retaining a plurality of the seats in both houses. Mushroom (Talk) 08:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Mushroom, thanks but I didn't ask about the results. What I asked was if anyone could update any of the articles. The Argentine legislative election, 2009 article is almost ready and just needs some prose about the results. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I was mistaken. The Argentine article is well updated and I am going to post it soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

United States Senate election in Minnesota, 2008

I think this could go up either now or when he's seated. Thoughts? BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 23:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It's big news for all the poor fucks in Minnesota like me, and the ongoing court battles have arguably been an example of the desperation and stonewalling of the national Republican Party. But I don't think it has major international interest. Feel free to prove me wrong. Grandmasterka 00:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per Grandmasterka. No real international significance. MacMedtalkstalk 01:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, I knew this was going to happen. Look, this is not your ordinary Senate election. Importantly, it gives the Democrats 60 seats, which allows them to fight off a filibuster if they maintain party unity. Secondly, it has attracted national attention because Al Franken is a celebrity and the race has taken so long. It is significant to more people than the train crash in Italy or the floods in Central Europe, and if those events are "international," it's only because Europe is split into itty bitty little countries while the U.S. is a continent unto itself. I can't see what negative consequences would come from placing this one U.S. event on ITN. I'll say it for the thousanth time -- we should ensure ITN as a whole is international, not individual entries. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
can u please explain "It is significant to more people than the train crash in Italy or the floods in Central Europe" because i highly doubt thats the case. unless u can somehow prove that people in US are so self involved that they do not find significance in anything that happens outside of US... again i highly doubt. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) Not to blab on, but here's an example of why the Franken is so important. The US House of Representatives, which has no filibuster rule, has just passed a bill that would limit greenhouse-gas emissions for the first time in the US. The Republicans in the Senate could try to filibuster this legislation. But now that the Democrats have 60 seats, they could defeat the filibuster if they stick together. That means Franken's election could be instrumental in the passage of greenhouse-gas limits in the U.S., which accounts for 22% of worldwide greenhouse-gas emissions. Thus, Franken's election could play a major role in the worldwide fight against global warming. That's a lot more important than a subway crash, tragic as it was. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Actually, Americans do tend to be pretty self-involved, until Bob Geldof gets involved. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
As a US user who tends to think outside of the US, I'm not sure where to cast my line. This may not affect many people out of the country, but Mwalcoff has a point that hardly anything does. This, in essence, gives the ruling party the ability to pass any law its members propose; a pretty big deal. I know that of this was Togo or something it probably wouldn't be put up (it's doubtful we'd even know about it) but the United States is one of the major players on the worlds stage and this is going to have a very big effect on it. After typing this, I think I can give a solid support. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

(Undent) After reading the above points, I concede the point to Mwalcoff, and give this item my support. MacMedtalkstalk 03:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

(Just chiming in here) I do recall reading an ITN a few weeks ago about an election somewhere (Europe, methinks) in which one party garnered a plurality, which is similar to this situation. Plus, you have the fact that it's taken so long to sort this ordeal out. Plus, it involves Al Franken, who's a fairly well-known entertainer. I say it's worth it for any and all of these reasons. So, ah, support, although I probably didn't need to say that since I nominated this. Hmm. Also, I cropped a picture for this. BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 04:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - In politics the only items that go up are national elections, coups, changes of leader, or changes of other high ranking political officials (e.g. VP or, as was the case recently, the House of Commons Speaker). This does not fall under any of these categories and as such is not notable in political terms. We can't make acceptions for the US just because this is a big deal there. Per WP:NPOV, it is not our place to say that this is more important that a similar change in Australia or France - we can only deal with the facts. In this case those facts say the position in question is not high enough up the US political pyramid to be notable. Also I must warn of making comparisons to other ITN items that are in no way related. The Italy train crash is notable for being an extremely rare occurence. This on the other hand is a small scale political election, something which happens on a daily basis across the world --Daviessimo (talk) 07:34, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per Daviessimo. Offliner (talk) 11:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Note -- this is not just one senator (finally) being declared as the winner in some cold place Ricky Rubio would play in the future, the implication of this election is that the Democrats can do anything they'd like to do. It's like clinching a supermajority or something. I dunno if an equivalent exists anywhere so I dunno how to compare this with. –Howard the Duck 11:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but per WP:CRYSTAL, Wikipedia doesn't deal with could, should, maybe and possibly, only with verifiable fact. If, as a result of this election, a major change in law occurs, then you have a case. However, as it stands this is not the case and thus this is not notable --Daviessimo (talk) 11:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
P.S. I found this comment rather amusing, as I thought if an election of one person that changed the "rules of the game," so are the passage of laws that benefited from the change of the rules, aside from those probably involving gays or huge sums of money, aren't that notable. –Howard the Duck 15:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Isn't a change in the rules of a legislature of any country that is invoked when a change in membership occurs notable enough? Can anyone give parallel examples for other countries? –Howard the Duck 12:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Support for English language Wikipedia. U.S. matters are important. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I think the argument that taking America's size and importance into account violates WP:NPOV to be odd. Isn't the position that "all countries are equal in terms of news value despite population and importance" also a POV? The only way to take personal biases out of this is to rely on what the world media are prioritizing and what Wikipedia users are likely to be interested in, which is what I argue all the time. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I would certainly support a story along these lines for any other country. And anyway, back in November, there was no mention of how the US Senate or House elections went. With this entry, not only do we conclude the Franken-Coleman saga, but we announce (in a somewhat belated manner) the final results of the November election. It's win-win! BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 19:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Right Mwalcoff. Regarding "what the world media are prioritizing and what Wikipedia users are likely to be interested in" this was Google News top story overall yesterday. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Heck, if we have "At present it is an unofficial low key position" of the EU, we should certainly have the the result of a legislative election of a country of 300 million... –Howard the Duck 05:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I think this news is growing stale enough that maybe we should wait until after the July 4th Senate recess when Franken is actually seated. Thoughts? BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 06:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I concur. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Truce Scrapped - Taliban

The Taliban withdrawing from a peace deal the Pakistani government, killing approximately 30 Pakistani soldiers shortly after making the announcement. (New York Times) MacMedtalkstalk 15:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. Anyone else? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
update is a little too short. Ashishg55 (talk) 16:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes... a little further expansion will be appreciated. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 YExpanded MacMedtalkstalk 17:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Link to the current operation in south wazristan.Here are the two links Operation Rah-e-Nijat and War in North-West Pakistanyousaf465'

Exploding train - 2009 Viareggio derailment

Would you believe it?! At least one person has been killed and 40 injured when a train carrying gas canisters exploded in northern Italy. A few more deaths and how do we oppose this one after Washington... actually BBC television are saying 6 killed now... I suppose they will soon update this... --candlewicke 01:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Web updated to six now... exploding trains are a bit unusual I imagine... --candlewicke 01:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I move we replace the Chinese crash with this. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
There is no need to replace. They're separate incidents. --candlewicke 01:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't think we need two train crashes with single-digit death tolls, and I think a lot more people are going to be interested in the Italy crash than the China crash, which seems like something that probably happens every day in China. Frankly, I don't think either one ought to go up now that we have the Yemen plane crash, which dwarfs both of them. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
The Chinese train incident has been removed anyway. (Too short) --BorgQueen (talk) 02:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
whoa, what makes u say train crashes happen in china everyday... how un-developed of a country do u think china is... after posting US train crash i see no reason to not have either. i think both should go up. including the plane crash. Even though they happened all of a sudden these things are not supposed to be common. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. This is why we need to be careful about what gets posted or otherwise there is no logical reason to oppose further similar incidents which happen soon after. --candlewicke 02:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
This article hints that railway fatalities are common in China. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
That was from over a year ago... --candlewicke 03:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
You think the safety record of Chinese trains has drastically changed since last year? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Can you prove otherwise? --candlewicke 03:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
This is going to go nowhere. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
(Re-start debate away from Chinese safety record) - I Support this. BBC have reported death tolls is now 13 so its pretty big --Daviessimo (talk) 07:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Strongly Support - Now at least 15 are dead. --TouLouse (talk) 10:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a nice blurb please. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
A freight train carrying Liquified Petroleum Gas derailed and exploded in Viareggio, Italy killing at least 15 people and injuring scores. TouLouse (talk) 10:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
(EC) I had the nasty feeling something like this was going to happen when I supported the Washington collision, albeit not so soon and not two at once. But I stick by my support of the Washington collision. And I oppose the Chinese one. As I mentioned in the Washington one, AFAIK the train and system there was an relatively modern one (I later learnt the train was one of the older stock, so may have been up to 30 years old which wasn't as modern as I thought but still not ancient) and the system had a very good safety. The collision was therefore highly notable and of great international interest even if the casualty count wasn't that high. As with Mwalcoff, I don't believe this is the case for the Chinese case. (This would be different if we were talking about Shanghai Maglev Train or some other modern train with an excellent safety record.) The Italy case appears to be close in fact probably more notable then the Washington one so I support that. I think the 'not just pure casualty count' principle is well established on ITN. It's why a terrorist attack in Iraq killing 10 people may not get on ITN, but one in the France or Singapore or Brazil killing 3 probably will. Or some commercial airliner in Africa has some sort of incident killing 5 probably won't get on ITN but one in Europe or North America killing 2 probably will. Nil Einne (talk) 10:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Could we add this image? File:2009 Viareggio train explosion 01.jpg

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
China train crash

I don't mean to re-start this debate but after reading the discussion I must point out that according this List of rail accidents (2000–present), it certainly suggests that there were a lot more railway accidents in the United States during this preiod than there were in China. A suggestion that railway accidents happen in China all the time, therefore it is non-notable, is plainly absurd. Having spent many years of my life in China I can tell you that a railway accident, let alone a railway collision, is a very uncommon occurence. The state is very concerned about its airline and railway safety record; in fact, it sees any incident involving public transport as a major failure of the government itself and generally fires many officials as a result of this. If this article does not make it on ITN over the Italy crash, I have to conclude that it's systemic bias on Wikipedia that has led to this. Also, it is true that these train crashes and another plane crash happening all at the same time would make ITN very crash-oriented, which is not something I support. But I do feel the attitude of some editors in this section are rather uninformed. Quantyan (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It might not make it onto ITN if it's not properly updated either so would you like to find more sources and add information? I cannot understand why a Chinese train crash is less relevant than a US one either but it needs to be updated. --candlewicke 15:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

And now for another air incident

Airliner crashes in Comoros, 150 on board-official. --candlewicke 01:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I already tagged Yemenia's article as current event. I provided a link to the note, so it may be displayed on the news.IFCM (talk) 01:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

can we wait for a bit more info on this. all we know right now is that it went down. perhaps a bit more info on the fate of survivors or blackboxes will help Ashishg55 (talk) 02:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Support once more information is added to the articlespace. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
We have the Yemenia flight 627 article now. Too short yet though. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
SupportGo for it. It's important.Is it 626 or 627 ?yousaf465'
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
What about the number of people onboard it's more than 150.yousaf465'


Do we have a good article connected with the US troops pulling out of cities? Or shall we instead wait until they leave the country completely? --Tone 07:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

There's already discussion below Nil Einne (talk) 10:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

June 29

ITN candidates for June 29

US leaving iraq

If anything this seems fairly noteworthy. I think entire world has been waiting for day when US finally leaves Iraq. But it might be good to wait till Tuesday (tomorrow) for this. Since that is what they are calling National Sovereignty Day. Ashishg55 (talk) 23:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The source doesn't say they are leaving Iraq. It says they are leaving the Iraqi cities and returning to their base in Iraq. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Well we can't post it if they're not leaving... --candlewicke 00:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
It says they are officially handing over the control to iraqi forces. That is more significant than actually leaving, there will most likely always be few US soldiers left (or atleast for a long time since this isnt a win or lose situation). Ashishg55 (talk) 01:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
If the source is saying they are moving from one part of Iraq to another I peronally can't see any reason to support - it isn't anything different, they do it all the time except that they're making a bit of a fuss this time... --candlewicke 01:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
No its a full pullback. except US forces will be embedded in iraqi forces till 2011 but "officially" *cough cough* they are leaving. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I will oppose if they're only leaving cities. Otherwise if they leave towns, then villages, then retreat into the mountains, then fly over the mountains, then officially cross the border, then they realise they forgot someone and all have to go back and that takes a few days, get lost on their way out... it would be nominated again and again. --candlewicke 14:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I think the issue here is that the Iraqis see this as the 'end' of US operations in the country, although in reality that isn't until September 2010. According to this article they celebrated 'National Sovereignty Day' despite the fact that there remain over 130,000 US troops in the country. My reading of it is that US forces will remain in action but they will no longer be in control. Also, the article states that large scale withdrawal of troops is not likely to start until next years elections. As a result I am going to have to oppose this going up now --Daviessimo (talk) 20:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Iran Elections

The Iranian Guardian Council certified the controversial election, setting off enormous street protests, despite the government's ban on these proceedings. New York Times MacMedtalkstalk 19:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

It is better if we update Guardian Council instead and bold it, since the protests have been featured on ITN before. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
The Iranian Guardian Council has declared themselves as the "highest authority on the election", and closed the election with Ahmadinejad as President. MacMedtalkstalk 14:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC) I'm not sure that reads well, feel free to suggest an alt.
Hmm, any supports? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
ALT: Iran's Guardian Council self-declares as the highest authority on the recent election, closing it with Ahmadinejad (pictured) as President. If you want to put him back on the Main Page again that is. --candlewicke 14:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
BTW, the "highest authority" part can be found here. MacMedtalkstalk 14:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


3 dead, 60 hurt in China train collision. This is what happens when an incident in Washington gets posted and users suggest that train crashes like that probably wouldn't be posted if they happened in other places, like Africa. So here is one in China being reported in the US media which (surprisingly?) nobody has rushed to nominate. --candlewicke 19:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - I have made an article - 2009 Hunan train collision -- TouLouse (talk) 19:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Well done. Sorry if I nominated it before you had the chance. It will probably need to be expanded though but that leaves time to gather other supports. --candlewicke 19:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Too much violence, and not an update. Nobody would let me start an article like that. They'd say it belongs at Wikinews.--Chuck Marean 20:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
That's...not true. Although I do agree that the update is rather lacklustre, once it's built up, I support. Therequiembellishere (talk) 20:54, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
We're going to need a lot more detail in the article before this should go up on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Added. Will work on adding additional content asap. –Juliancolton | Talk 01:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Would you mind updating that murderous-red timer, Julitancolton? Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow... two ITNs added now and the timer is still red... Michael Jackson, here we go again... --candlewicke 02:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Ah, sorted now. --candlewicke 02:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I removed the train entry; the article is too short yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
You're right. I thought he said he was working on it... --candlewicke 02:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Three people are killed and 60 others are injured when two passenger trains collide at Chenzhou railway station in Hunan, China. --candlewicke 23:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

was the actual fraud case put up on ITN when it came out? if not then i dont mind this. its a feel good story for all those who lost their money lol Ashishg55 (talk) 17:34, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
actually nvm it was on ITN. so forget it. dont need this twice Ashishg55 (talk)
If its been up before then it doesn't need to go up twice. Wasn't it Madoff who pleaded guilty, which was why it was put early? --Daviessimo (talk) 17:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per above. Madoff overkill. --candlewicke 19:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. We don't have anything yet for today, and I don't think two mentions of the Madoff scandal is overkill. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
It's probably not the outcome, since he is likely to appeal being sent to jail for going bankrupt like General Motors and his business practices being called a scheme by the press. --Chuck Marean 20:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Support because we don't have anything for today? There are several nominations from the past few days which we can update if there is that much of an emergency. I'm going through some right now anyway. We also have the Chinese train crash if it has to have been nominated today. --candlewicke 21:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't think any of the other recently nominated items carry as much interest among English Wikipedia users as the Madoff story, but that's just my opinion. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
He confessed to the crime and this was expected. It has already been posted once. English user interest does not really play a role when pretty much same story was already featured on ITN. If that was the case then we will have same stories that just keep popping up whenever there is any new update. Ashishg55 (talk) 22:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
And Paris Hilton and Brittany Spears would have dominated ITN... Therequiembellishere (talk) 22:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
If the 150 gets him to appeal, that would make the headline sound less biased. --Chuck Marean 22:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
How about: American financier Bernard Madoff (pictured) is sentenced to 150 years in prison for investment fraud. --Hapsala (talk) 23:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure if his scam involved many non-American investors, but Madoff's case sounds a bit US-centric to me. If it has already been on ITN, then I don't think we should have it again. Offliner (talk) 00:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
No offense, but I'm not in agreement with this line of reasoning. Very few events are truly international. Trains don't usually crash on international borders. The key should be to ensure that ITN as a whole is geographically diverse rather than to try to make individual items "international." That's not to say that if an item is of interest to people all over the world, we shouldn't take that into account. But every news medium, or list of headlines, or whatever ITN is, has some items that appeal to some people and some items that appeal to others, with differences based on geography and field of interest (entertainment, sports, science, etc.). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree that ITN should be as geographically diverse as possible. But since we usually pick our news from the anglophone media (which is completely biased towards coverage of anglophone countries) ITN tends to be very US/UK/Australia centric as well, and we should look to lessen this. If Madoff was already in ITN, we should use something else. Offliner (talk) 01:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
That's a fair point. However, I don't think ITN has been too heavily weighted to English-speaking countries lately considering the vast majority of English Wikipedia users likely come from English-speaking countries. I haven't been counting, but there hadn't been a U.S. entry for a while before the U.S. golf Open (not counting NASA items), and right now the only U.S. entry on ITN is Michael Jackson, which is really a world story. The only other English-speaking country item on ITN now is the diplomatic flap between Britain and Iran, which is the next to drop off the list. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Caucasus 2009

Russia launches the Caucasus 2009 operational-strategic military exercise to assess combat readiness in the Southwest district of Russia. Offliner (talk) 09:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Leaning towards support... Anyone else? --BorgQueen (talk) 09:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
According to LA Times, it is Russia's largest military exercises since the 2008 war with Georgia. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:21, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Hm, this means this is the largest operation in about a year. I don't see anything significant just in that. And it's not even international. We don't put most of NATO exercises on ITN either. --Tone 09:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
It's significant because of the very tense situation in Caucasus and the relations between Russia and Georgia. Offliner (talk) 09:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Russia conducting military exercises on its own territory is not ITN-significant, especially not when it's in the North Caucasus! We can put this up if it becomes "Russia decides to invade Georgia as part of the Caucasus 2009 military exercises." Physchim62 (talk) 10:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean with especially not when it's in the North Caucasus? Offliner (talk) 10:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Russian military (and paramilitary) forces have been fighting in the North Caucasus for the much of the last fifteen years: its hardly surprising that they do their training exercises in an area where might well have to fight in the near future. It's no different from the NATO exercises on the North German Plain through the Cold War. "Russia launches major military exercises in Iowa" might be ITN-significant… "Russia launches major military exercises at the North Pole" would almost certainly be significant. Physchim62 (talk) 11:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't agree with your argumentation that it being conducted in the North Caucasus makes it less notable. Major combat operations in Chechnya finished a long time ago. It's a very large exercise, probably among the largest in Russia after 1991. Obviously, it's not in the headlines of the international (i.e. anglophone) media, but it has a nice article and it would be a different subject for a change. (Usually we seem to have elections, accidents, plus all kinds of US/UK centric stuff on ITN.) Offliner (talk) 11:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Not really ITN worthy. If they were starting a repeat of last year, I might give a very weak support.  Cargoking  talk  10:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Ricci v. DeStefano

In a 5-4 ruling in Ricci v. DeStefano, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of white firefighters who had passed a promotional test, but had been denied the promotions because of their race. This overturns a lower court decision where U.S. Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor had ruled against the white firefighters. Washington Post Grundle2600 (talk) 17:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Come again? --candlewicke 18:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, this is a hard one to summarize in one sentence. Perhaps, "In the case Ricci v. DeStefano, the U.S. Supreme Court rules New Haven, Connecticut racially discriminated against 18 white firefighters." But most ITN participants are going to look at that and say, "So what?" -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
It's possibly the most reported on U.S. Supreme Court case of the year, given that the Supreme Court overruled a ruling from a lower court by a current nominee to the Supreme Court. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
That angle doesn't seem of great relevance (and isn't mentioned in the article at all) since her position was in line with the person she was replacing and 3 other people. If it was a 9-0 decision perhaps. And if you take out that angle, I don't see any significance of that case. If the Supreme Court ruled that same sex marriage is a guaranteed right under the constitution or something perhaps... Even the Madoff case (which I don't support since we already had it) has more international interest then this (which I didn't even hear of) Nil Einne (talk) 12:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, as this is way too local news. Offliner (talk) 00:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
How is this local? It's the United States Supreme Court. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I meant US-centric. Offliner (talk) 00:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
See my comment under Madoff under international-ness. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - Most countries have a supreme or high court which deals with cases like this on a daily basis and nothing here suggests that this is particularly notable outside the US. This is a local event that has snowballed into a major case but nothing more. At the end of the day race-discrimination is not exactly uncommon anyway --Daviessimo (talk) 07:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

June 28

ITN candidates for June 28

International child pornography ring gets busted in Switzerland

[1] Not much info is available yet, but let's keep an eye on this. It reportedly involves more than 2,000 people in 78 countries. Can you believe it?? --BorgQueen (talk) 18:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Jean-Christophe Sauterel, a police spokesman in Vaud, told Swiss newspaper Le Matin Dimanche that it was "the biggest concern of its kind dismantled in Switzerland". [2] --BorgQueen (talk) 06:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Ongoing Thailand Standoff

An ongoing standoff has left 3 dead including a suspected militant in Thailand.

Honduran president arrested

President of Honduras Manuel Zelaya is arrested by troops ahead of a disputed constitutional referendum. [3] Notable enough? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:38, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems notable. Update first, of course. --Tone 14:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
According to current news reports, this is not a coup. His ouster was ordered by the Supreme Court for repeatedly defying their rulings. Congress has selected his replacement according to the Constitution, which is still in full force. His own party isn't even supporting him, only his most extreme grassroots supporters. He was legally removed from office; just because Hugo Chavez calls it a coup, doesn't automatically make it a coup. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 00:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
The U.S. media is calling it a coup, and they're hardly Chavistas. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how hard it is to impress that the US media are not the pinnacle by which we follow. The question is, was the removal today a coup? I personally believe we shouldn't say coup and just say "removed/deposed/exiled" to make it utterly impartial. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 European floods

At least 12 people were killed in the Czech Republic and one in Poland. TouLouse (talk) 13:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

This has been nominated below but it shows that this has gotten much worse... still supporting. --candlewicke 18:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
At least 12 people are killed in the Czech Republic and one is killed in Poland by floods which have also affected Austria, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia. --candlewicke 02:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Albania elections

Albania goes to the polls to vote for a new parliament. There will not be a new head of state (the president is elected seperately) but there will be a new prime minister appointed by the president and approved by the new parliament. Article at Albanian parliamentary election, 2009 - Dumelow (talk) 12:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Guinea-Bissau elections

Guinea-Bissau votes for a new president today as well. The winner will replace João Bernardo Vieira who was assassinated in March. Article at Guinea-Bissau presidential election, 2009 - Dumelow (talk) 12:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

2009 FIFA Confederations Cup final

is today. –Howard the Duck 04:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Would this have been nominated if the United States team hadn't just "caused one of the biggest upsets in world football"? --candlewicke 19:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Would you support being this is the awesomest upset ever? –Howard the Duck 14:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
The Confederations Cup is nothing but a glorified friendly competition, which allows FIFA to make some money. OK, so maybe I'm being a tad cynical, but the fact remains that Brazil are known as 5 times World Champions or 8 times South American champions and not two times winners of the Confederations Cup. As I have stated on the talk page of WP:ITNR, I'd personally rather see other more prestigious competitions added --Daviessimo (talk) 21:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The Confederations Cup may just be a tune-up for the World Cup, but if the U.S. wins, it will be the biggest win in the history of U.S. soccer and of great interest to the 50% or so of Wikipedia users who come from the U.S. So I support including the finals result on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
But what about if Brazil win? Would you still support? And as Candlewicke asks would this item even have been nominated if the US had been knocked out by Spain? The item either goes up or doesn't - we can't add a clause that if one time wins it goes up and if another wins it doesn't --Daviessimo (talk) 07:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually Olympic basketball would've had a bigger shot if Spain won in the final, since US winning the gold isn't really "news". –Howard the Duck 14:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I support even if Brazil wins. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Brazil won... Felipe Menegaz 20:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Ready to post? In association football, Brazil win the Confederation Cup? --Tone 20:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - We do not cover the teams verson so why cover the International Teams one?. After all it only several international friendlys and not a proper tournament like the world cup.Jason Rees (talk) 20:38, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. In association football, Brazil win the 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup? Felipe Menegaz 20:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. It is a professional official FIFA competition, therefore it is not a friendly tournament. --Carioca (talk) 21:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --Tone 22:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't we usually put the score in entries about sporting events? Should it not be "Brazil defeat the USA 3-2 to win the 2009 Confederations Cup" or similar? – Toon 22:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Possible WP:ITNR?  Cargoking  talk  23:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah go add it. –Howard the Duck 23:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone second this?  Cargoking  talk  23:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
This item's addition was premature; there is no substantial article update. 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup Final should be expanded to include a reasonably detailed account of the match. Simply stating that Brazil defeated the United States 3–2 is insufficient. —David Levy 23:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Incidentally, if/when the article is suitably expanded, the following blurb would sidestep the English variety issue ("win"/"wins" or "defeat"/"defeats") that inevitably results in well-meaning back-and-forth edits:
I was about to switch to this wording when I noticed that the update criterion wasn't met. —David Levy 23:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

June 27

ITN candidates for June 27

Saad Hariri

Saad Hariri becomes Prime Minister of Lebanon. Can anyone update the article? --BorgQueen (talk) 03:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Needs to wait for more confirmation, but sacking a democratically elected president just because he is (alleged to be) mad is probably ITN worthy! Physchim62 (talk) 18:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, very interesting (only if he gets sacked.) --BorgQueen (talk) 03:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Volvo Ocean Race concludes

The 2008-09 Volvo Ocean Race is scheduled to end, with the finish line in Saint Petersburg, Russia. I wonder why this has never been proposed before - I cannot see how it could possibly lose. According to the main article, "the route for the 2008-2009 race has been altered from previous years to include stopovers in the Middle East and Asia for the first time... will take over nine months to complete, and is expected to reach a cumulative TV audience of 2 billion worldwide." Which probably makes it the most popular sports event of the year? Or near enough at any rate. The article has an image from Alicante, I might have some more by the end. Also when replying, please consider approving it for WP:ITNR – it certainly won't weigh down ITN as it takes place once every three years and the facts speak for themselves. Most continents catered for, this race has superpowers like Brazil, India, China, South Africa and the US(!!!). --candlewicke 20:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

By this time, I usually take these "worldwide" viewing figures with a grain of salt, otherwise the Super Bowl is the most watched annual sporting event. –Howard the Duck 01:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but I think there is more to this than just viewing figures... --candlewicke 21:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I do think if there's one sailing event that'll have to be added, it's the America's Cup, this one is not that followed, even though it may have "an expected cumulative 2 billion TV audience" worldwide. I haven't seen it here, so probably 90 million people wouldn't see it. –Howard the Duck 08:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
~1,595 news articles in Google News. Will rise as the race wraps up. –Howard the Duck 08:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Isn't the Americas Cup already included anyway? This is of international significance because it affects just about every major continent. The US is in there as well so I guess I'm going to be really surprised if it is opposed without a decent reason. You can probably do the population statistics as well if you begin with India and China... --candlewicke 16:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
American participation, or even interest might be overestimated. There's only 1 American news outlet reporting this. No hits from China and also 1 from India. I'd pass on my final judgment later when the race is over. –Howard the Duck 21:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Well it hasn't ended yet so it wouldn't be reported everywhere. --candlewicke 02:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
That's why I'll reserve my final judgment later. –Howard the Duck 03:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Anyone still pursuing this? The number of news stories rose ~2.2k; by comparison, the 2009 NBA Draft now has ~16k. –Howard the Duck 17:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I support. Since its been going on now for months. Finished now. Will anyone do the update?  Cargoking  talk  17:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I think this has been adequately updated now. The NBA Draft (whatever it actually is, I can see it was opposed upon nomination) can hardly be compared to a two-year round the world event so I presume this will be posted. A world record was broken in the first leg and I have loads of sources from the BBC, some from CNN, The Daily Telegraph, The Seattle Times, The New York Times, The Irish Times and Taiwan News and lots of others. So I hope that proves its worth. --candlewicke 00:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Added. –Juliancolton | Talk 02:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
WTF, if I added 15 non-U.S. sources about the NBA Draft, I'm sure as hell it won't be added. –Howard the Duck 04:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Is the NBA Draft thing a world record breaking two year round the world race which visits several different cities in different parts of the world? --candlewicke 19:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you know basketball? –Howard the Duck 11:07, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
NHL Entry Draft

John Tavares was picked number one in the NHL entry draft yesterday, by the New York Islanders. The young superstar has already broken numerous records, and is expected to continue to do so in the NHL. MacMedtalkstalk

Oppose I don't see any significance to this. Therequiembellishere (talk) 06:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 Thailand Standoff An ongoing standoff that has already left 3 dead including a suspected militant in Thailand. --Roaring Siren (talk) 13:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

June 26

ITN candidates for June 26

Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite GOES - O Launch Date Moves to June 26 June 26 between 6:14 to 7:14 p.m. EDT plans are abandoned to launch as early as May 20. GOES - O provides environmental information used to support weather forecasting for the United State's National Weather Service (NWS) operations. Updated...SriMesh | talk 01:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Some paragraphs (Purpose and Payload, for example) could use a couple more refs (they have none, 1 per paragraph would be sufficient). In addition, add it to the current events subpage, and wait for the launch. SpencerT♦Nominate! 16:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Once the updates are finished, support. Therequiembellishere (talk) 17:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a blurb, please. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:16, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

June 25

ITN candidates for June 25

Michael Jackson dead
"Pop star Michael Jackson (pictured) dies after suffering a cardiac arrest in Los Angeles at the age of 50."

~AH1(TCU) 22:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Unconfirmed so far, only post if confirmed. ~AH1(TCU) 22:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Obviously upon confirmation. I presume this is support? --candlewicke 22:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Confirmed? --candlewicke 22:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
They are just quoting TMZ. not yet credinly confirmed. --Like I Care 22:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
It could still be added in the main page as a report of hospitalisation and changed if things change. --Like I Care 22:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
We cannot afford to mess this up so exercise all caution please. --candlewicke 22:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
My inclination would be to wait for an official statement from either the Police, the hospital or his agent --Daviessimo (talk) 22:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Sorry, I saw the SKY headline and thought it had been confirmed. Typical SKY. Multiple sources necessary for something of this magnitude. --candlewicke 22:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The BBC is saying that The LA Times is reporting him dead... I cannot access this though... :( --candlewicke 22:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Confirmed by AP and NBC (can't find link for AP, but on TV). SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

<-- LA times. SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes its confirmed. Support. This will be covered internationally and heavily. If there is one celebrity out there that deserves to go up on ITN it has to be MJ. Ashishg55 (talk) 22:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's just give it a set time, like see what it's like in an hour. There's no rush... we're not a breaking news service. --candlewicke 22:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, BBC confirmed... :( --candlewicke 22:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
But surely before it can go up it needs a prose update like any other item. If some over eager admin put this up without one, it makes a mockery of what we do --Daviessimo (talk) 22:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I know. I will see what I can do if needs an update. --candlewicke 22:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
IMO, meets the criteria for deaths. He was the King of Pop. Sceptre (talk) 22:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, I can't... protected... somebody else will have to do it... do not post until it's ready... --candlewicke 22:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware the BBC haven't confirmed it... where are you getting that fact from? At current the BBC are only acting as tertiary source, which isn't suitable for Wikipedia, especialy on such a controversial event. Jolly Ω Janner 22:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The BBC News Channel is running with the story that he is dead, although every once in a while they are throwing in "according to US media". I still think the best bet is to wait until an official announcement. As Candlewicke has pointed out we are not a news service --Daviessimo (talk) 23:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
They had a live feed on their site which wasn't saying it for a while but then it did in an official-sounding way. But you're right... there is still no rush... however, an admin will have to do all the updating... --candlewicke 23:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, because you didn't let Pavarotti in! :-(  Cargoking  talk  23:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Who are you refering to when you say "you"? Jolly Ω Janner 23:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand the logic there but I would have supported Pavarotti too. Jackson has the biggest selling album of all time though. And he's all over the radio right now which is quite scary... --candlewicke 23:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
It's hard to look at Wikipedia now. It keeps crashing. I change my mind to weak support. He is notable, and there is an update.  Cargoking  talk  23:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The current blurb does not specify who Michael Jackson is or how he died. It needs to be updated. ShadowUltra (talk) 23:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I know. And "reported". I have asked the admin to pay respect to this discussion and remove it if it is "reported" but Wiki keeps crashing... shows his popularity though. --candlewicke 23:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I am hearing death confirmation by hospital now. --candlewicke 23:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. Death confirmed by the coroner. Sceptre (talk) 23:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Since it's all confirmed now, I'll be putting in the nominated version above (with picture) as soon as I get the protection stuff handled. Hersfold (t/a/c) 23:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Could we maybe make the pic a tad larger? Mononomic (talk) 23:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
For a variety of usability and stylistic reasons, the images in the top four sections (Featured Article, In the News, Did You Know, and On This Day) are limited to no more than 100 pixels in any direction. The image of Jackson is currently set to this limit. --Allen3 talk 00:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Allen3, I hadn't realized. Mononomic (talk) 00:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A bit premature? I noticed this at DYK and AfD earlier this week and it just dawned on me... --candlewicke 00:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I notice that whoever posted it forgot to add the ITN banner notice on the talk page... I have dealt with this unfortunate occurrence. --candlewicke 02:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Sigh, anonymous forgot to spam the nominator as well. I have now completed this. Why is it that admins rush in for these breaking events, leave a sloppy mess and run off never to be seen again... --candlewicke 02:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Agh, now I see the timer is still going yellow... how difficult is it to do all these things? :( Or have you all collapsed with shock? --candlewicke 02:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
And again I am disabled from fixing the admin mess because it is protected. How irritating... --candlewicke 02:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Fixed the timer and adjusted the MP balance. I also find it irritating that some inexperienced admins do not follow the procedure here. Perhaps they are not aware of it, or perhaps they don't care, I don't know. But if they can't (or don't want to) do the job properly perhaps they should leave it to others. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Several countries flooded, double figure deaths, hundreds evacuated, people missing, states of emergency, etc.

"Torrential downpours have caused devastating floods in several central and eastern European countries." --candlewicke 19:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - Looks pretty notable and according to that article it has affected at least five countries. Also, it not like we going to have flooding related items in Europe occuring every week throughout the summer is it? --Daviessimo (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Um... in relation to the also bit, this happened in one corner of Ireland the other day while the rest of the island was sunbathing. So no, not as serious as five countries, but actual flooding in different parts of Europe during the summer would seem to be regular enough. --candlewicke 21:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Probably should have clarified what I was trying to say. What I meant was it is not likely that we are going to put flooding items up every week that can be considered comparable (in relative terms) to the major storms that occur elsewhere. With 10 deaths already I was placing this on a par with say 2007 United Kingdom floods, which are obviously big in the European context and much less frequent than cyclones, hurricanes and typhoons --Daviessimo (talk) 21:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Ah yes... I think the low(ish) death toll (which might be disregarded in other circumstances) is complemented by the evacuations, freak injuries, state of emergency and the fact that there are several countries involved... --candlewicke 21:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

"Baghdad, Iraq", but "Los Angeles", no futher geographic specifier. Systemic bias! (talk) 23:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I think you mean the Michael Jackson entry. I will notify WP:ERRORS. --candlewicke 02:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Oldest musical instrument discovered

... and it's a flute! --candlewicke 03:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Support It's art and history. What's not to love? Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree but perhaps not everyone likes art, history, music, so I will wait to see what others think. --candlewicke 03:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Support - it's about time we had a proper encyclopaedic story --Daviessimo (talk) 07:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree with that point too. And on another note, I wonder how we can have diplomatic expulsions and not have ambassador restorations... I can't work out how to oppose that one if someone were to seriously nominate it... anyway, I suppose it is an update to flute? --candlewicke 07:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Expelling diplomats involve a greater deal of fanfare, though. –Howard the Duck 07:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
You're right - I agree with that too! Thanks. :D --candlewicke 08:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The flute was found in 2008. Does that make it OK? It is only getting properly published now by the BBC, National Geographic, etc. --candlewicke 08:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I presume it was because it has taken all this time to get an accurate age for it. Anyway you can always state that "Scientists confirm the finding of...", which would cover any potential issue with the date --Daviessimo (talk) 08:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. A nice feel-good story for the summer, with obvious encyclopedic merit. Physchim62 (talk) 09:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Physchim62. Good to have some music on ITN. Support.  Cargoking  talk  09:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I wonder whether this indeed is the oldest musical instrument. Divje Babe flute seems to be around 15000 years older - however, it was presumably made by Neanderthals, not Modern men. So, if this is put on, the wording should be very careful about that. --Tone 13:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. ya im gonna go with Daviessimo on this one. this is some actual encyclopedic material in a long time. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this now officially the most supported item for ITN in history? --Daviessimo (talk) 21:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
6 outright supports (including me), 1 cautious support and 1 ambiguous comment - wow... --candlewicke 21:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, I've updated the flute article regarding the announcement of the discovery. As the find was actually made last year, but only announced now, I suggest the blurb should be something like "Scientists confirm the discovery of a 35,000 year old flute in Germany, the oldest known musical instrument". The word 'confirm' should cover any issue with the time-lapse --Daviessimo (talk) 15:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment I don't see any evidence for breaking any records. In fact, I'm pretty sure we've had way more then 6 before particularly before ITN became so dead. Indeed, I suspect in the old days admins would easily be yelled at if they added controversial or unclear items with only 2 supports. Nil Einne (talk) 10:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Togo abolishes the death penalty

... "The vote was witnessed by Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero." --candlewicke 03:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose There are still, what, 106 countries left? Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Not every day a country abolishes a death penalty in front of the Spanish Prime Minister... --candlewicke 03:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I remembered a certain president presenting the pope the authentic copy of the act that abolished the death penalty with glee so it's not really that rare. –Howard the Duck 07:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Weak support, but only because it seems to be part of a concerted move on the part of Spanish diplomacy. That's the interesting bit for me, the spin from the Spanish government has cited other countries with whom "Spain is working" to abolish the death penalty. Trivia: Zapatero's grandfather was executed by the fascists during the Spanish Civil War (although there are many Spaniards who have similar family histories). Which article should be updated? Physchim62 (talk) 09:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Use of capital punishment by nation doesn't have much prose. Perhaps the Togolese version of countries listed at Template:Capital punishment could be created if you think it is suitable? That might involve a bit of research though. --candlewicke 09:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Maybe something similar in size to Capital punishment in Iraq which isn't too big or too small... --candlewicke 09:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

June 24

ITN candidates for June 24

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mark Sanford resignation
  • Mark Sanford, Governor of the U.S. state of South Carolina, admits to adultery with an Argentine woman and resigns as Chairman of the Republican Governors Association.
    • Not sure if this is "significant enough", but I think it's big news at least in the U.S., and is quickly developing. I will clean up the references in the updated section in just a moment. btw, I just copied the blurb from what's now in Portal:Current Events; feel free to modify it. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 21:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Support. Politicians have affairs all the time, but this story is so bizarre (he disappeared for a week after telling aides he was going hiking then was tracked down at the airport by a newspaper) that it's become the top story across the US national media and is on the front page of the BBC. The story just broke and might lead to Sanford's resignation as governor. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
This isn't the first time something like this has happened recently though... and it goes back to the example I used previously where the mayor of a Chinese city with a population of 9 million resigned in some corruption scandal and nobody batted an eyelid because the US didn't seem to notice and it was a footnote on the BBC. This state seems to have a population of under 4.5 million but because it is big news in the US it is noticed. This is of course just circumstance and there is nothing wrong with a nomination (which is what keeps ITN going) but I don't think this has any real logical significance for ITN so I will oppose (I use the population statistics as an aside though, and a curious one at that, not as a sole reason to oppose). --candlewicke 21:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) -- Well more people in the English-speaking world are interested in a governor of South Carolina than a Chinese mayor. Mark Sanford is currently the most popular page on Wikipedia, with Jenny Sanford number six. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

@Candlewicke: Are you saying, then, that you don't want to support this because ITN and/or mainstream news media already has systemic bias towards US-related news? (apologies if I am misinterpreting your post.) If that is the case, as I'm sure it is, wouldn't it be better to push for more non-US ITN items, rather than just reducing the number of US ones? rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 22:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Absolutely not. If it does manage to lead to his resignation as Governor, fine. The Republican Governor's Chair resignation shouldn't be taken into account because it is such an obscure body. We cannot and we will not include every sex scandal of every government official in the world and the United States is no different. Therequiembellishere (talk) 21:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I've found Xu Zongheng, the person I was referring to. This was how the BBC treated the story - there was a follow-up article on his resignation but I can't yet find it. He was in charge of twice as many people as the person who has left their job here. So this is nothing new at all. --candlewicke 22:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Update: Sanford is now the lead story on the AP, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal (!), Canada National Post, Google News US, CBS News, USA Today, etc. and has generated an incredible 3,556 Google News hits in barely two hours. If we are to follow the lead of the media rather than impose our own POV, I think the decision is obvious. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
@Rjanag: No, I am simply treating this like I would any other ITN nomination. I am using other examples of the same thing occurring on a regular basis throughout the world, thus reducing its significance. It's like all the sudden bad weather nominations. Who will post them all and how will they all fit and why are we opposing those who might dare to nominate a few deaths in Iraq because there are too many? We have to see through the headlines and find some significance. ITN is also not the news and is not based on what the top story in a country is, otherwise we'd have a different story to post for every country and how could 200 events be posted (or even fit on the Main Page) each day? --candlewicke 22:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
You mean follow the American media? And one from Canada? --candlewicke 22:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) -- Not all countries are the same. With so many English Wikipedia users from the US, there's a lot more interest in news from the US than there is in news from Equatorial Guinea. This is clear when you look at Wikipedia:Popular pages and see Mark Sanford number one and Jenny Sanford now number five. I mean, I'm sure there are train crashes that kill nine people in Africa all the time, but they wouldn't get on ITN like the Washington Metro crash. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

There is no reason to believe that African train crashes would be ignored at ITN at all. I find that an astonishing claim to make. The only reason they might not get on ITN is because you would express your opposition due to CNN & co. not covering them to your satisfaction. --candlewicke 23:10, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) And the BBC. But yes, I think that when a story generates an extraordinary amount of attention in the national US media, and the article has been properly updated, it ought to go on ITN. The same can be said of a story that generates an extraordinary amount of attention in the national UK media, as did the election of the new speaker of Parliament. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

We are not the media. We do not follow the media. If you want to push a media-driven agenda go to WikiNews, but for the love of God keep it away from here. Therequiembellishere (talk) 22:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Um, Therequiembellishere, what do you think "ITN" stands for? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

A blooming irritating oxymoron at this stage. --candlewicke 22:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Rjanag, as an admin, I should say you are always free to post it if you believe it appropriate (others do this often enough anyway - it is a pity they don't hang around more often). However, I presume you will also address the baying mob who have pulled down items which I and others thought were more significant. --candlewicke 22:27, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't plan on posting it, I just thought I'd suggest it for others to discuss. I'm not attached to the article, and I'm not very familiar with ITN and just thought I'd suggest it. If most of the regulars here decide it's not appropriate and don't feature it, no skin off my back. I did first hear about this on an Irish blog, actually, rather than American news, but it's up to you guys to decide on. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 22:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
You've misinterpreted what we do. We put up the highlighted events on a (generally) international scale. I was also opposed to having Bercow put up, I'll have you know. Therequiembellishere (talk) 22:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Actually, very few ITN entries are truly "international." There's nothing international about the Metrorail crash. The Ingushetia assassination is of little interest outside Russia and the Caucasus. The Greenland thing is just a Greenland-Denmark issue. The Algeria military ambush? The interim president of Gabon? There are very few really "international" news events. That's why we should aim to have ITN be international as a whole rather than try to make every entry "international." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't the Washington train incident a "worst ever"? I may have read that incorrectly though, as I'm immune to getting emotional over single figure deaths for the purposes of ITN, even more so when one is fed a daily diet of road traffic accidents by my own national media. But that is a reasonable rationale (although I found it was posted in quite a hurry for such a minor incident). --candlewicke 22:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Worst ever in Washington, but hardly that unusual in rail transport -- 26 people died in a commuter rail crash in LA last year. I supported the nomination because it was the lead story across the US national media and because I'm sure many Wikipedia readers are familiar with the Washington Metro from personal experience. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Well I'm certainly not one of them. --candlewicke 23:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
"Man has sex with woman who's not his wife, resigns from organization that nobody's heard of before." This is a non-story. We are not responsible for the pathetic state of the U.S. news media, we are responsible for writing an encyclopedia. Physchim62 (talk) 22:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
WOW, i cant believe we go through the same discussion every other day. If US media is following a news story heavily it really does not mean that we need to automatically put it up on ITN. a case about adultery... are u kidding me. i dont care if US media stretches this story for weeks because it entertains americans, Outside of US no one would have even heard of the person and a case for adultery posted on Main Page will simply make ITN look like some gossip column. Im sorry but this should really not go up. strong oppose Ashishg55 (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Note: Rjanag closed this discussion (in good faith I presume as this would be done at DYK where he is prominent) but Therequiembellishere reverted. I can't recall this ever happening before as the discussions are usually left here and then archived later. What now - is this the ITN equivalent of a constitutional crisis? Or is it OK to leave it here? --candlewicke 00:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I found the infobox I was talking about in my edit summary. Archiving... Therequiembellishere (talk)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Baghdad bombing

we got a big number here BBC 60+. I would normally oppose this but i think this reached my death count limit. What do u guys think. The only thing is the 43 below isnt too far either... :( Ashishg55 (talk) 19:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

actually 130+ injured too... Ashishg55 (talk) 19:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm... yes... 60+ would be big. It may be the second in such a short time but perhaps this is worth a support until 60 becomes so common that we will reach body fatigue. But I propose that any bomb in the next week or so should have 100+ deaths to feature. Would that be appropriate? --candlewicke 19:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Baghdad market bombing, June 2009. Jolly Ω Janner 22:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Well i dont know about the whole discussion going on above about adultery but this item should take higher priority. so if there is more support for this... then can we post this Ashishg55 (talk) 23:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Pakistan Drone Attack
  • What potential do you think this has for an article? 43 deaths is quite a lot, especially when you consider this is not a bomb attack --Daviessimo (talk) 17:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps a good excuse to update Drone attacks on Pakistan by the United States. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I have left some sources. The BBC link also provided links to The Guardian and The Irish Times when I last checked. --candlewicke 17:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Glastonbury Festival 2009

Glastonbury Festival 2009, the world's largest green field arts and music festival, begins (or 28 June when it ends). Not sure whether its absence is due to history or lack of it... --candlewicke 20:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Even though the largest green field arts and music festival, festivals usually aren't ITN material unless something notable (i.e. a stampede killing 50) occurs, so I'm leaning towards oppose. In addition, pardon my ignorance, but what are green field arts? (Or green field music?) SpencerT♦Nominate! 17:17, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not exactly sure (I think it is the two combined as usually music festivals or other arts festivals do not occur together) but I purposefully included a Chinese source for a recurring UK event which attracts artists of all genres and backgrounds from all over the world. --candlewicke 17:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm too bored to count, but if we're going to include this are we going to include the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival in the future too? –Howard the Duck 13:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
There doesn't appear to be anything special about it. And it began this century? Glastonbury has been happening for decades. Has this even been mentioned in China? --candlewicke 14:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't read Chinese, so I can't verify these Google News results: Coachella. –Howard the Duck 15:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
2 pages on Google? You've opposed more pages than that. Glastonbury. --candlewicke 15:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Question: How is this more noteworthy than a hurricane which caused extensive damage? –Juliancolton | Talk 16:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Glastonbury being cancelled might be ITN material; Glastonbury happening isn't. Physchim62 (talk) 16:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
If this get included, surely the Edinburgh Festival Fringe will be. Since it is larger and more prestigious. Therequiembellishere (talk) 16:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
And then there is the Mathew Street Festival, which claims to be the largest free festival in Europe. Putting Glastonbury up is going to open a big can of worms --Daviessimo (talk) 16:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
True. Points taken, logical response. :D --candlewicke 16:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

UK and Iran expel each other's diplomats

There have been requests to mention the Iranian election protests on Main Page again, and this seems to be a good chance. [4] Can someone update Iran – United Kingdom relations? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll get on it --Daviessimo (talk) 11:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! You are fantastic. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Seems a bit lame for an ITN piece to me: it was mentioned in today's Spanish press, but it's no longer on the BBC. Physchim62 (talk) 11:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
You mean it's no longer on the front page of the BBC? So what? You know we are not a "breaking news" service. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I think the issue here is that the controversy over the Iranian elections is continuing and this is one of the most significant associated acts. Thus if you look at the Iran news item on the front page of the BBC website, you will see further mention of the UK-Iran political tension. For Khameini to call the UK evil and subsequently claim that the protests are being instigated by the west is pretty notable, particularly when you start kicking diplomats out the country --Daviessimo (talk) 12:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: Iran and the United Kingdom expel each other's diplomats, in the aftermath of the disputed 2009 Iranian presidential election and the protests that followed. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Sounds good. I didn't expand too much (I didn't put anything on the Iranian accusations that it is British nationals behind the protests) because if it does go up on the main page, hopefully others will edit it --Daviessimo (talk) 12:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
If it was mentioned in the Spanish press that ought to be fine? There have been diplomatic incidents at ITN before so this is nothing new. --candlewicke 14:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Having only Iran's flag on the Main Page is completely biased and I think it should be removed or both flags be put on the Main Page. Jolly Ω Janner 19:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Or have the UK flag now for a while. Would that be appropriate? Having the UK and Iran together (if this is even possible) would not be neutral either since Iran has been there for so long. Alternative could be to return the President of Ingushetia... --candlewicke 19:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I do not think it is biased to have both flags there. Iran has been in the news for a long time, so there's no reason to not have their flag there for a long time, plus I think we used the pic of their president instead of their flag ages back anyway. Having just the Union Flag is biased. Jolly Ω Janner 20:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Tropical Storm Nangka

Speaking of tropical cyclones we have another one. It even threw down hail(!!!) for the first time in recorded history. –Howard the Duck 10:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Support This is more notable than Andres since it has made landfall a few times where as andres hasnt Jason Rees (talk) 11:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The article simply states that the residents claim they have never seen hail before. It is not exactly "for the first time in recorded history". Please suggest another blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Well according to the BBC Andres has. To be honest a third weather nom in three days illustrates better than I could that the notability measure needs to be upped. I would prefer each one to be judged using one of either deaths (say 10+), damage (say $100m+) or strength (say category three as suggested below) --Daviessimo (talk) 11:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
In Andres' defense, the Philippines is an archipelago so when a cyclone crosses over especially in the central part there's a high chance there'll be multiple landfalls.
As per the hailstorm, the Philippines is a tropical country so having hailstorms is really rare. –Howard the Duck 12:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
If there is a significant or unusual occurance I think we can judge it differently. If what you are saying is true (and can be sourced) then I think this can go up. If however, we are talking about a event where nothing unusual happens, then I think we need to have more robust criteria for inclusion --Daviessimo (talk) 12:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
(ec) I've lived in a Southeast Asian country for years, and I know it is rare. However, unless you can find a reliable source saying that it is the first hailstorm in its history, the claim stands as OR. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:36, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
(ec) We can try using the statement used in the reference, though. –Howard the Duck 12:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The problem is that the source in question has the statement "Many residents were amazed on what they said was first-time experience". In that form they are actually reporting opinion and conjecture rather than fact. As such, it would have to be stated in that way in ITN, which, to be honest, is not going to look very good. Maybe you'd be better trying to looking at the national meteorological agencie's report and see what they say --Daviessimo (talk) 12:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't think PAG-ASA has data for those hailstorms are that rare to even consider record keeping. –Howard the Duck 12:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Support if the "first time in recorded history" claim turns out to be true... otherwise (and it has been said by the nominator - "we have another one"), what is so special about this one if it isn't even the first this week? --candlewicke 14:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Support. Not sure what the big deal is. Tropical cyclones are the most notable weather phenomena on the planet. –Juliancolton | Talk 16:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Because this is ITN not Cyclones ITN. There has to be a main page balance and as I've already stated 3 big storms in 3 days suggests not all of these items can go up --Daviessimo (talk) 16:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
How can they realistically be posted if they're happening every day? There aren't even enough people to post or comment on nominations as it is and then everyone would want each and every bomb in Iraq posted as well. And, if there are three, it is similar to all those football nominations which came a while ago where they all made each other appear less significant. --candlewicke 16:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
So multiple nominations mean none will be approved? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but alright. –Juliancolton | Talk 17:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Iraq and Afghanistan would be posted every day if that were the case. And Iran, Air France Flight 447 and swine flu would never have left either. Which, considering that's five, where would everything else go? --candlewicke 17:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't forget Pakistan and Somalia. That makes seven... --BorgQueen (talk) 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
we usually dont even have 7 items on ITN. so the ongoing ones will push themselves off. forget the new and different things. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Tropical cyclones are not that big of a deal. They're a rotating bunch of clouds, so troughs, fronts, and monsoons often cause the same impact. It's not like they're the most significant natural disaster each year. Half of all natural disaster deaths are from famine or drought, but we don't have an ITN on every ongoing famine or drought. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

June 23

ITN candidates for June 23

Hurricane Andres
Hurricane Andres (2009)

Tropical Storm Andres intensifies into a hurricane off the southern coast of Mexico; rough seas from the storm kill one person. –Juliancolton | Talk 22:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I give in. Support.  Cargoking  talk  22:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to see a tad more expansion in Hurricane_Andres_(2009)#Impact. Thanks, SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this more significant than the earthquake below? --candlewicke 23:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Nothing has resulted from the earthquake thus far other than a tsunami warning that did not play out. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
But what has resulted from the hurricane? --candlewicke 00:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Significant rainfall, waist-deep flooding, at least one fatality and damage to buildings. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
← The impact section has since been expanded. –Juliancolton | Talk 00:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Its only a cat 1 hurricane... we had stronger winds in toronto a few weeks back. i oppose all hurricanes that are atleast not cat 3 (or atleast something special about them). otherwise we will be posting storms all season. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. One fatality is not bad enough. You might want to nominate this for DYK. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I have to agree. I find the opposes and supports a bit strange today - they don't seem to add up and none appear any more significant than the other. --candlewicke 03:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The storm caused severe flooding, triggered large mudslides, generated high waves, and brought down dozens of trees. I'm honestly not sure how the number of deaths is relevant here. –Juliancolton | Talk 04:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought all hurricanes (and their equivalents elsewhere such as typhoons and super typhoons) are a sure bet for inclusion (this should be at WP:ITN/R). Weaker storms such as tropical depressions, tropical storms and severe tropical storms need to have something else special to be included. –Howard the Duck 05:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Well a similar item was nominated yesterday and I made the point that when you look at 2008 North Indian Ocean cyclone season, 2008 Pacific typhoon season or 2008 Atlantic hurricane season, there are a lot of storms that cause far more damage and death. These are arguably the three biggest storm areas and there maximum activity levels coincide over the summer months. If we're not careful every other item will be storm related. The nominator yesterday suggested that if one storm is up we replace it if another occurs soon after, but I feel we still need to raise the bar on what is notable. --Daviessimo (talk) 07:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Where do we draw the line for "sure inclusion" then? Gustiness? Major hurricanes and their equivalents? When it hits a populated area? –Howard the Duck 09:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know but you've nominated another one today and we can't post a new storm every day. ITN isn't an ongoing weather report. --candlewicke 14:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Papua New Guinea earthquake

A 7.0 Mw earthquake. TouLouse (talk) 14:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Too short. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Romanian Mummy again

A man who had died 28 years ago, was discovered perfectly conserved in Văcăreşti, Dâmboviţa County, Romania TouLouse (talk) 14:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Video #1
Video #2
YouTube can't be a source for ITN!  Cargoking  talk  14:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 Hermosillo daycare center fire

2009 Hermosillo daycare center fire investigation results reveal cause of fire which took the lives of 47 infants and toddlers, and injured up to 95 other children, charges of negligence laid, heads roll.NY times The Australian The Star AOL CBS News MSNBCSriMesh | talk 04:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Are you being serious? The fire occurred on June 5. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I think the headline proposed here is intended to concentrate on the results of the investigation rather then the fire, but I agree the results aren't really that significant, the fire was Nil Einne (talk) 11:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
It was the investigation I was trying to focus on, as seven were charged another seven to be charged of the neighboring warehouse, and the daycare owners are now to be charged, and many lost their jobs as a result of negligence, the the investigation results are just now published. I didn't know if follow up stories are done here on ITN.SriMesh | talk 14:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Many investigations take place. But if we were to post an investigation to every single fatal event, ITN would be a bit of a farce. Sorry SriMesh, but I for one strongly oppose.  Cargoking  talk  14:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Incidentally, I noticed when looking for something else that we did have the daycare centre fire Nil Einne (talk) 11:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Air France

These are only reports, but Sky News is normally accurate, although it looks like Le Monde "broke" the story. No point posting anything too soon. If confirmed, I'll post it here. (Sky News), (The Irish Times), (Reuters), (Guardian), (AP), (Times Online) and (CBS).  Cargoking  talk  09:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to say what the story is! Black box reportedly found.  Cargoking  talk  09:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, yes, if the black box is located & recovered, and the article is substantially updated accordingly, I will support a re-post. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
At least I tried: [5].  Cargoking  talk  10:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm afraid I don't understand why the black box is any more relevant to ITN than the Mexican fire investigation... can someone explain? --candlewicke 17:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I was a bit goofy putting that in. It might be a subject of public interest though. Lots of people are following the story of a plane that disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean. Will Air France Flight 447 return to ITN? I don't think so.  Cargoking  talk  17:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
actually i will support when they retrieve the box successfully and at least confirm that they can get data out of it. people have been waiting to find out about the box. This story will definitely be for global interest category rather than importance. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

June 22

ITN candidates for June 22

2009 ICC World Twenty20

It needs a mention now. More report can be oun here [6] , [7] , [8] , and [9]. It a sure mention now It's a world cup so need mention for both events. For it's England and for Men it's Pakistan.

"The Pakistan Cricket Team wins the 2009 ICC World Twenty20 world cup after a hard match against Sri Lanka at Lord's Cricket Ground in London, England. (Cricinfo)

The update is too short at the moment. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Expansion underway.Need helpyousaf465' 06:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 U.S. Open Golf Championship
Lucas Glover wins the 2009 U.S. Open Golf Championship. (Held over from Sunday due to weather.) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
This is in no state to go on the Main Page. The final round relies on one citation as do many of the other rounds (second, third, etc). The BBC also seems to be the only source (although they are all different articles) used for all these sketchy citations which provide much of the updated prose required. --candlewicke 01:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Citations aren't too difficult to get though. Put them in, and then it is good to go. OK. I've added more refs now. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Iran protests continue

As long at Iran remains the lead story in much of the world's media, shouldn't we have one Iran entry on ITN? Something like "Mass protests continue in Iran against the purported results of the recent presidential election. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to keep ongoing news stories at the bottom perhaps? Jolly Ω Janner 23:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggested that over on the talk page but it's like talking to the wall over here... --candlewicke 00:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Washington Metro train collision

A derailment and collision occurs between two trains on the Red Line of the Washington Metrorail, killing four and injuring 55.

Casualties are likely to increase, as entrapment is involved. The situation is evolving. Noteworthy as a public transit disaster in a major capitol city. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 22:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Tentative Support. Pretty nasty-looking situation, and many Wikipedia users would be familiar with the Washington Metro. We'll take some flak, though, if the death toll stays at two and this goes up on the Main Page. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Strong Support This is definitely noteworthy and more details are likely to be released later on. -- (talk) 23:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Death toll up to four, total casualties range between 55 and 70. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 23:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The article is currently on AfD. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
AfD closed. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Weak support since this seems a fairly major accident and train collission are fairly rare events particularly in the developed world with modern trains. If this was a bus or other traffic accident that would be a different case but it's note Nil Einne (talk) 11:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

New Speaker of the British House of Commons

Conservative MP John Bercow is elected the new Speaker of the British House of Commons becoming the first Jewish holder the office.

I think this has importance beyond the UK. --Philip Stevens (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Support, minus the note on his Jewish religion. The fact that he's Jewish isn't very notable. Jolly Ω Janner 21:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Jewish people are sometimes notable, aren't they? Anyway OK... --candlewicke 21:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose what significance is this outside of the UK? Therequiembellishere (talk) 21:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Third on CNN's "Top stories" behind the current incident in Iran and a bomb in Iraq. The latter of which doesn't have an article on Wikipedia. Jolly Ω Janner 22:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Support -- It's the lead story on the major British broadsheet websites, and with all the UK users the English Wikipedia has I think really major news from the UK should go up if it meets all of the other criteria. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Support, minus the irrelevant Jewish comment. Algebraist 22:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The UK media isn't playing up his religion, so I see no reason to mention it. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The significance of items posted on ITN these days is poor. What is the international significance of this story? Is this story of even medium level of importance in the countries history? Such appointments are very common across other countries. Forget Asia, even if we start putting such news items for all European nations, ITN would be like notice board of appointments. I see two ITN items which are not international in nature nor of the state's head or anything. Looks like tomorrow we might see an appointment of some city's mayor on WP front page. --GPPande 19:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
To be honest I think you need to do more research into what exactly being the house of commons speaker entails. Generally speaking they can be regarded as the third most powerful person in the country after the Queen and PM, so the comparison to City Mayors is silly. Also because internationally significant items were so infrequent the ruling was changed to include items of international interest. If a story is being reported across the globe then it is a perfectly viable candidate to go up on ITN as long as its meets other criteria (i.e. encyclopaedic value, referenced update etc), even if it doesn't have international repecussions --Daviessimo (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
A quick search in this instance reveals Chinese, Indian, US and French interest. If I where to continue I'm sure the list would get bigger --Daviessimo (talk) 20:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
The fact is, the vast majority of ITN entries are not international. What's the international interest in an election in Surinam? Very little. I think the key is that ITN should be international on the whole, with items from around the world. Each item should be either very important or of interest to a great many Wikipedia users. The UK has the second-most English Wikipedia contributors behind the US, and this was a very major story in the UK. Instead of complaining, why not suggest a story from your country when something particularly noteworthy happens there? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it's accurate to say there's no international interest in elections in Surinam (whatever that is) or Suriname. Elections affect the government and the people leading a country. They therefore affect participation in international bodies, diplomatic relations, peace efforts and wars, et al. It is therefore quite common that diplomatic missions or ambassadors would comment (e.g. congratulate the winners) of an election, that new leaders or old leaders attending something will be spoken to e.g. congratulated by other world leaders after the elections. Ambassadors, diplomats, foreign relations ministers and even world leaders (and their advisers) would usually keep themselves informed of election results even of small countries like Suriname. It's their job. On the other hand, they're far less likely to bother to keep themselves informed of the arrest of members of the Sicilian mafia or even more so of who wins the US open, unless they have a personal interest. If the new leader of Suriname is slightly deranged or whatever and invade Guyana, that'll be a problem that leaders and world bodies will likely have to deal with. On the other hand, if Lucas Glover annouces he thinks it'll be a good idea to invade Guyana and kill their people with golf clubs, this will be of far lesser concern. If the leader of Suriname annouces he wants to develop nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, that'll be of great international concern. If Lucas Glover does it, perhaps he'll be arrested and get some insane celebrity headlines, but that's about it. The view that elections aren't of international interest IMHO is therefore more one reflecting a rather limited world view rather then reality and ignores the fact that who controls a country is of great significance and interest. P.S. Let's also remember that in reality, we don't really know how many wikipedia users there are from each country. All we know is wikipedia editors, and that was 3 years old. While it seem resonable to suspect that a fair number are from the UK, we shouldn't overemphasise what we actually know about wikipedia readers. Nil Einne (talk) 07:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Tropical Storm Linfa (2009)

Tropical Storm Linfa makes landfall in Fujian Province, China; heavy rains produced by the storm caused severe flooding that left five people missing and destroyed 100 homes. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The first of the season was listed only recently and given there frequency over the summer months I think we have start being more restrictive in terms of notability. Normally this is based on deaths or displacement. If this is only 5 missing and 100 homes destroyed I don't think it's big enough as of yet. --Daviessimo (talk) 16:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't planning on putting each one that forms up for ITN. I wasn't sure how to word this one but there was a fatality and 6 more people missing in Taiwan, so if someone could make a new line it would be much appreciated. If it's at all useful damages are estimated at $49.4 million USD Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:45, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
But to be honest even one death and five missing is not really that big. If you look at the items in 2008 North Indian Ocean cyclone season, 2008 Pacific typhoon season or 2008 Atlantic hurricane season there are a lot of cyclones/hurricanes that kill far more so its just not feasible to list every one that kills, because every other item over the summer would be weather related --Daviessimo (talk) 16:57, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I knew that would pop up so I did think of a plan to avoid ITN becoming swamped with TCs. When a new TC is approved for ITN while one is currently up, the one that is currently up gets replaced by the newer one so there are never two at the same time. Another idea, a long shot though, would be to create a cyclone news section on the main page. It would note the newest impact information from current storms. But, I'd rather not follow through with the latter. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that won't necessarily solve the problem, it's still going to mean we will have a perpetual TC news item on ITN which is likely to result in complaints, particular if the only thing one TC is notable for is pounding country X and causing $50k of damage with no lost lives. Also if one TC hits country Y and kills 100k people and causes billions of damage then tomorrow another hits country Z and kills 100k people and causes billions of damage, it makes little sense to not have both of these on ITN. This is an extreme case and you may say IAR, but what about lesser cases? When do we decide to draw the line? Nil Einne (talk) 08:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - I see no reason why this shouldnt go up Jason Rees (talk) 18:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


Yunus-bek Yevkurov, President of Ingushetia in the hospital after an assassination attempt. Three of his bodyguards dead. Lingering part of the North Caucasus Insurgency 2009 and the Second Chechen War. [10] Therequiembellishere (talk) 06:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The update is too short at the moment. Can you expand it just a bit? --BorgQueen (talk) 06:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, everything already included is all I know. Therequiembellishere (talk) 06:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone has expanded it. Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Ingushetia is not even an independent country. It is sub-division of a country. How come this story became so important? --GPPande 15:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
If this will be kept, it should be "President of the Russian <whatever the local subdivision name> of Ingushetia. –Howard the Duck 15:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I thought it was some sort of country that I somehow had never heard of. Teemu08 (talk) 15:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It's important because along with Chechnya and Ossetia, this is a hugely fragile region of the Caucasus, which is in itself a pretty war ravaged region. An attemption assasination of a high ranking political figure is pretty significant in the broader socio-political context --Daviessimo (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I see no reason this should be on the Main Page. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Because you just don't like it? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I see a reason this can be on the Main Page. I don't think it is up to anyone to say this or that isn't a country even if their own country thinks in such a way. Who can decide what a country is and isn't or what is the standard for deciding this? --candlewicke 17:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
hmm i did not even know there is a page for "i just dont like it" lol. either way an assassination attempt on any high ranking political figure seems important enough to me. But since it isnt an actual country i guess mentioning Federal subjects of Russia will make it more clear for ppl. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Saying he is the President of the Russian Republic of Ingushetia is probably the best bet --Daviessimo (talk) 17:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
So fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Rwanda Genocide

What about this. People are surely not convicted of genocide all that often --Daviessimo (talk) 13:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. Someone has to update Callixte Kalimanzira. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Congress of France in Versailles

For the first time in 136 years, the Congress of France convenes in Palace of Versailles to listen to an address by the President of France, Nicolas Sarkozy. Suggested to illustrate a quite obscure body of the French parliament, the Congress. Hektor (talk) 14:04, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

"The last presidential speech to France's parliament was in 1873, before lawmakers banned the practice to protect the separation of powers and keep the president in check." Good enough, support (provided the article is properly updated). --BorgQueen (talk) 14:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Having just looked at the Congress of France article, I would say that it will take a lot of work. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
True. --candlewicke 01:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

June 21

ITN candidates for June 21

Salvatore Miceli

Salvatore Miceli, a member of the Sicilian Mafia and one of the most wanted men in Italy, is arrested in Caracas, Venezuela. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - the arrests of 'Most Wanted' criminals are normally put up. Does the article need updating? --Daviessimo (talk) 12:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the update is too short at the moment... Interested in working on it? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I'll have a look for some sources --Daviessimo (talk) 13:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I've updated the article. One of the sources (Xinhua) states that Interpol had him as their fifth most wanted man in Europe but on the Interpol website I couldn't find an ordered listing (they just order them alphabetically and split by crime). Not sure if "5th most wanted man in Europe" should be put in the blurb without viewing an official list from Interpol, although Xinhua are a massive news agency and I'm sure a pretty reliable source --Daviessimo (talk) 14:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


"First direct evidence". Seems appropriate for an encyclopedia... --candlewicke 22:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Nomination from yesterday

Just in case anyone develops any interest today. :) --candlewicke 22:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


One billion people throughout the world suffer from hunger... this doesn't seem very surprising but apparently it is big news in the UK, Germany, Australia, Malaysia and South Africa. --candlewicke 02:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I presume this can only lead to malnutrition... --candlewicke 03:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Also - Henry Allingham

Iranian Protests

This is my first entry on this page after a long wiki-break. Just wanted to check if ITN has covered Iranian protests? Most significant protest event in Iran after 1979 revolution. --GPPande 18:51, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it has. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Haitian Senate election, 2009

I dont recall seeing any Haiti-related ITN... --BorgQueen (talk) 08:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Gambian journalists arrested

This has just come to my attention - it seems it has been going on throughout the week. The last link involves a leader of the opposition. [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] --candlewicke 08:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Klitschko v. Chagaev
Dunno about this since it seems no one cares about heavyweight matches anymore... –Howard the Duck 05:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd rather wait for Mayweather-Marquez if that pushes through, and ultimately the winner of that bout vs. the winner of Pacquiao vs. whomever he faces. –Howard the Duck 05:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Somalia declares a state of emergency
Yes. Emergencies are big. What will I do? --candlewicke 02:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I suppose the most relevant article is War in Somalia (2009–). --BorgQueen (talk) 02:34, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
How is this different from the state Somalia has been in for the past 20 years? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:49, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
"They also killed an MP in northern Mogadishu on Friday". --candlewicke 04:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this a lead story anywhere? I've checked the AP, BBC, CNN, NY Times and Reuters and the only one with a story on Somalia above the fold is the BBC, and that deals with Ethiopia refusing Somalia's request for help. We really should be following the lead of major news organizations rather than picking our own stories out of the back pages based on our own POV of what's important, IMO. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Oh I see. And yet, you nominate a boxing match? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, it's on the front page of the BBC, Yahoo Sports, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, CBC Sports, etc. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:52, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
On the front page of sports news outlets? Then we should take items from the front page of Africa-only news services too, right? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Surely if you want to be looking at top story on news sites you should be choosing a more diverse selection not 3 basically American sites, 1 British and one Canadian. What about Al Jazeera English, South African English news sites, Indian English news sites, Chinese English news sites (Xinhua?), Russian English news sites and perhaps one more generic Asian one and more generic African one (if one exists) and one more generic European one (ditto)? Particularly since there tends to be quite a strong difference in sporting events of interest to North Americans and to most of the rest of the world and you only have one non North American. P.S. I'm presuming of course you looked at rather then say (which currently has 9/all stories about cricket) and rather then which currently has 4 stories about football (the real kind) Nil Einne (talk) 13:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
It is not front page news of BBC Sport or CNN, which list amongst other things, the British GP, the Lions tour, Wimbledon (and Nadal withdrawing), the US open and the Confederations Cup are all ahead of it --Daviessimo (talk) 07:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
However it is front page news in South Africa. Amongst other stories about Ethiopia, Madagascar and Zimbabwe. Like you said we shouldn't "picking our own stories out of the back pages based on our own POV" - this is clearly not the back pages so it's fine. :) --candlewicke 07:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Wait no, this is confusing :s. My point was that Mwalcoff contradicted himself because he opposed this on the grounds that it is not front page news, yet nomed the boxing when clearly it is not 'top' of the back page news. On both BBC and CNN there are five sports stories above the boxing. I've no opposition to the Somalia story --Daviessimo (talk) 08:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for all the supports but someone still has to update the War in Somalia (2009–) article. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
The boxing match was one of the top sports stories at all of the sites mentioned when I made my comment. The Somalia story was buried or non-existent everywhere except at the BBC, which actually had a different Somalia story. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 17:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Article updated (last night this was about #4 for Google World News and had about 1,400 articles). "State of emergency" added. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:59, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps a flag

Greenland becomes a country. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 15:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Changed to say "a country" instead of "an independent country" because of possible ties to Denmark. Anybody know which is more accurate? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Greenland already is a country, so saying it will become one is incorrect. Also my understanding of it is that Greenland will become fully independent country within the Danish kingdom, but remain tied to Denmark through foreign policy and the military. As such it would also be incorrect to claim they are truly independent as well. So basically that's not really helped, has it. I think (but don't hold me to this) that it will adopt a similar link to that which Hong Kong and Macau have with China, in which case it may be better waiting until the day, when I'm sure the Danish Gov will come up with a fancy name for their new relationship --Daviessimo (talk) 16:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Greenland becomes a self-ruling country.

Thanks. There's a rewrite and some sources (, sikunews, AFP, London Times) -SusanLesch (talk) 16:48, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Unless it declares independence or is admitted to the UN, this does not seem newsworthy enough. It still is not a country; it was just given more self-rule than it had.--Metallurgist (talk) 20:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree with this. When it showed up in the headlines a few months ago it seemed like a big deal. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
The article is updated, the National Day ceremony marks Kalaallisut as the official language, and Greenland is internationally recognized as self autonomous in its own judicial affairs, policing, and governance of its own natural resources. Queen Margrethe II of Denmark remains the Head of State holding the reigns of finances, defence and foreign relations.SriMesh | talk 04:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, it is notable enough and I don't think we will get any serious complaints on either WP:ERRORS or Talk:Main Page. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 ICC World Twenty20
  • The tournament is due to conclude on 21st June with the final at Lord's. If adequately updated I don't suppose there will be any objections, but I've raised it here so everyone knows --Daviessimo (talk) 14:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I edited the article to say that it's 12 all-male teams which would be my only objection. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Aren't there lots of sports events that have all-male teams? --candlewicke 20:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Indeed, but if there is desperation for equality in this case there is a parallel womens tournement running and I suppose the winner of that could be put up as well --Daviessimo (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Ah yes, makes sense now. :-) --candlewicke 22:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
The item is actually listed on WP:ITNR so if updated it can go up. Just out of interest, in this instance I've left a note on the talk page of the article stating that a prose updated is required for inclusion on ITN. If this works, such that an update is forthcoming, it may be an idea to do this in future for other reccuring sport items in order to a)improve how fast an item goes up, and b)makes sure the article is of a good quality and doesn't need removing --Daviessimo (talk) 10:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
It should be mentioned on mainpage now.
I know. But what can be done? I will leave an alert of some sort in the edit summary of this comment and maybe somebody will take pity. They might even make some comment on the other nominations when they arrive as well. Pigs might fly as well. Or would that be too much? --candlewicke 03:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
We are waiting for it.
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Unless I'm terribly mistaken, the only prose concerning the final was the clause "The final took place at Lord's on Sunday 21 June with Pakistan beating Sri Lanka by 8 wickets" which is hardly a significant addition since it only repeated the final score. –Howard the Duck 05:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there any reason why the men were included and the women left out? Surely they could be combined into the one news item? -- Mattinbgn\talk 05:57, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The women's tournament is not that followed nor it is at WP:ITN/R. Dunno if it has sufficient enough updates either. –Howard the Duck 06:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I would have thought that it would be in a similar position to a tennis grand slam where the mens and womens tournaments are run concurrently. -- Mattinbgn\talk 07:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The thing is probably some random guy on the street probably knows one or two female tennis players. I dunno if the women's tournament is even that well known to begin with.
If we'd be having women's sport on ITN, the most notable ones are all tennis grand slam events, probably 1 or more major golf championship/s, the FIFA Women's World Cup, the FIBA World Championship for Women and events where women athletes made a breakthrough like Danica Patrick winning one of the IndyCar races last year. This doesn't include sporting events that women are allowed to compete side-by-side with men in the same tournament like the golf championships, F1, chess and probably bowling. –Howard the Duck 08:55, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
But surely if we are being 'neutral' we should really be putting both up when the tournament in question has two parallel events for men and women at the same time. If we can do it for sports like tennis, then it seems biased that in other sports we don't do it --Daviessimo (talk) 13:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't F1 have tons of "parallel" (not really parallel in the sense that the events are co-equal, but in this regard I won't even say any women's team events are 'co-equal' with their male counterparts) events before the actual GP race? GP2 comes into mind. We don't add those. –Howard the Duck 14:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
There not really comparable though, because Formula 1 and GP2 are names that refer to the rules, which are in each case different. As far as I'm aware womens and mens cricket as governed by the ICC use the same rules. The only issue here is gender and really in the 21st century that should be the case. Per WP:V it is not are place to say that one is more important than the other. Yes there may be larger viewing figures for the mens tournament and it may be more lucrative for the players, but in every other way they are equal because they represent the top level of the twenty20. --Daviessimo (talk) 16:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
yes you are right woman are playing tennis for a long time that is why they are mentioned.
Still waiting isn't it too slow.

2009 U.S. Open Golf Championship

Listed at WP:ITN/R. –Howard the Duck 09:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, but make sure the article has the necessary updates. SpencerT♦Nominate! 12:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Updates won't be that hard to find since the editors there have round-by-round updates. BTW, the final round will be on Monday since all of the rain that should've been at Wimbledon went to New York. (LOL) –Howard the Duck 12:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

June 20

ITN candidates for June 20

Iraq attack
Hmm, yes, I would say 64 is a fairly large number even for Iraq. Would you like to create an article? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
At least 67 people are killed and over 200 more are injured near Kirkuk in the worst single Iraq attack since March 2008. --candlewicke 09:23, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Romanian Mummy
English source, please. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I can't even access this one right now... --candlewicke 19:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm so sorry I didn't found any english source yet. TouLouse (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it has not been published in English yet. I will keep watch for it as I search for other topics. --candlewicke 22:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Greece's Acropolis Museum


I'm nominating this because the paper says this is happening on Saturday. It also says it is a big deal. They've been building it for about eight years. The controversys about it are: Greece has been trying to get artifacts for it from the British museum, and the British won't give them. Also, many greeks don't like the look of the museum in their neighborhood. The article on this will probably be updated by those who wrote the article. This encyclopedic becasue it's a museum in Athens. It opening is definitely a long anticipated happening. It was supposed to open when the olympics were in Athens, but it took longer to build. --Chuck Marean 06:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards support. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Seems notable enough, according to a BBC article. Any support? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll support. This is not just any old museum, after all, and the Elgin Marbles dispute is notable enough to have a pretty good article written about it. Physchim62 (talk) 13:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok, according to our article the inauguration ceremony starts from 3 PM GMT, so we will have to wait just a bit. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


One billion people throughout the world suffer from hunger... this doesn't seem very surprising but apparently it is big news in the UK, Germany, Australia, Malaysia and South Africa. --candlewicke 02:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I presume this can only lead to malnutrition... --candlewicke 03:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

First Tropical Cyclone in the Eastern Pacific hits land

The first tropical cyclone of the 2009 Pacific hurricane season causes significant flooding in Sinaloa, Mexico. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 05:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

No casualties yet? --BorgQueen (talk) 08:20, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
And I thought "firsts" were exempted from this "rule." –Howard the Duck 09:28, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
First ever, yes. But the first of this season? --BorgQueen (talk) 09:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Good luck on researching for the first ever tropical cyclone. –Howard the Duck 09:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, yes, it could be interesting to research for... But that is irrelevant for ITN. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:43, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
The storm is a weakling though. I'd prefer the first named storm. –Howard the Duck 09:49, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
It's the first known tropical cyclone to impact Sinaloa during June since reliable records began, I'm fairly sure that's notable enough. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 10:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Are you sure that the particular fact is in the Tropical Depression One-E (2009) article? I can't find it. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, I forgot to add that into the article. I'll put it in now Cyclonebiskit (talk) 10:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I've added the information into the article. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 11:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggestion: Tropical Depression One-E, the first known tropical cyclone to impact the Mexican state of Sinaloa during the month of June, causes flooding in the region. How is it? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 11:24, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

June 19

ITN candidates for June 19

U.S. federal judge impeached
  • The U.S. House of Representatives impeaches U.S. District Judge Samuel B. Kent, who has pleaded guilty in a sex assault case. ([20])
    • OK, I know it's just a district judge, but it's the first impeachment of a federal judge in 20 years (and first impeachment period since Monica Lewinsky), and it's a slow news day. The article on Kent has been well-updated on the criminal charges and impeachment. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Slow news day doesn't mean something should be posted. Slow news day raises its own concerns for this as it suggests that it is not a very big event. Plus there is plenty of death and even life(!) these days - Henry is alive and well and breaking records! :) --candlewicke 22:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Henry Allingham

I see our old friend is back in the news... :) I suppose this record is broken often though... --candlewicke 18:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2007 it would seem actually... --candlewicke 18:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I really dunno - the record seems like it's broken rather often to be put up (Same with women's as well). SpencerT♦Nominate! 12:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Basque terrorist attack
  • What about this. Its only one death, but given that it has occurred in what is generally a stable country I think it is a little more significant. --Daviessimo (talk) 12:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I've not heard much about it today so it doesn't seem to have any long-term consequences yet. Perhaps if it had killed five or ten but one is not very much. It's a bit like that pilot who died... --candlewicke 00:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

F1 Breakaway
  • What are people thoughts on this. In sporting terms its nothing short of massive, but I fear that to not motorsport followers it will mean little --Daviessimo (talk) 08:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I wonder, is this decision final? I'd prefer to wait for further development. --Tone 08:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Well the FIA had set a deadline of the 19th June for teams to submit unconditional entry forms for next season or face being dropped. The eight teams in question have refused to do so and instead stated that they will leave. I agree it is better to wait until more information comes out but if and when a final decision is taken I wanted to know what people thought on the story --Daviessimo (talk) 08:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
A think a major change in the organization of a popular (and commercially lucrative) sporting event is OK for ITN, when we're sure what's happening. Physchim62 (talk) 09:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm a fan of Formula 1, but I'm not convinced this should go up. Break away threats have happened before although this is the furthest one has reached that I'm aware of [21]. And it's quite clear both sides still prefer a compromise albeit from opposite ends of the scale. There are still a lot of hurdles to go thorough before the break away is close to a reality. [22] [23] Nil Einne (talk) 15:51, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
This split seems unlikely or at least uncertain right now. --candlewicke 22:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Ali Khamenei speech

Wooot another potential blurb involving a speech. –Howard the Duck 10:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Ayatollah Khamenei announces Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won the Iranian presidential election by 11 million votes. (NY Times)

--Chuck Marean 16:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

June 18

ITN candidates for June 18


A request I received earlier from Roaring Siren who has since gone offline it would seem. 2009 Algerian military ambush --candlewicke 03:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I can say support since I only did a bit of tidying... --candlewicke 03:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Can't we add this? or anything else? I wanna see the Lakers off the ITN already. Boo Lakers (LOL). –Howard the Duck 07:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
The article is quite short at the moment. Could it be expanded a bit? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Expanded a bit. The death toll appears to be 24 now. 24 soldiers are ambushed and killed in Bordj Bou Arréridj, Algeria, in the deadliest attack aimed against the government this year. --candlewicke 17:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Canada's fastest supercomputer goes online

The most powerful supercomputer outside of America, is the largest Intel processor based IBM installation globally and the twelfth ranking computer internationally went online. The supercomputer operates on 3,240 intel 5500 series 2.53 GHz processor cores arranged in 45 file-like stacks and will examine particle collisions from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in CERN, Geneva which will produce cataclysmic conditions that will mimic the beginning of time and other highly calculation-intensive tasks.ReutersPR newswire University of Toronto and 'SciNet Consortium articles both updated. (Tried to find sources outside of Canada to see if it had any global interest, as there are tons of Canadian news sources)SriMesh | talk 00:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Twelfth ranking globally? Most powerful in Canada, according to Reuters so that would presumably produce a lot of Canadian sources. The trouble is that if this was in the US it would probably be refused as it would not be the biggest in the world so if I supported Canada that would be something of a double standard... --candlewicke 01:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Also, the update in the two articles mentioned is two sentences and one sentence respectively. That might lead to somebody opposing so you probably ought to expand SciNet Consortium by about three more sentences. --candlewicke 01:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Will expand the article, but will work on LRO first. This supercomputer has impressive write ups and credentials, but I see what you are saying about the US competition. The same is happening now on the supercomputer talk page, as it may or may not be fast enough for that article. SriMesh | talk 01:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Successful NASA mission to the moon
  • The LRO Atlas V rocket launch proceeded without a hitch. It will provide a 3D map of the moon's surface and probes will search for ice.NASA APSriMesh | talk 21:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Can we wait until it has finished? Should be less than 10 minutes from now. --GW 22:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Spacecraft separation has been confirmed Support inclusion per WP:ITN/R. LCROSS should be mentioned as well. --GW 22:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it updated? --candlewicke 22:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The Lunar Precursor Robotic Program lift off of the Atlas V rocket carried two space probes, Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) and the Lunar CRater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) was successful at 5:32 p.m. EDT (2132 GMT).
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. There is probably a free picture of the launch at the NASA site. Based on what the TV said, I would word it: NASA begins unmanned lunar mission to prospect for water that could be used by explorers.--Chuck Marean 02:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Since when could the TV talk?  Cargoking  talk  14:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Their President's archenemy is a fly (and yet they amuse themselves by kicking dead pigs around?). Perhaps we aren't giving them enough credit if they've stretched their imaginations to invent a television capable of engaging in intelligent conversation... who knows? They may become a powerful nation some day... --candlewicke 15:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Financial regulatory overhaul debate
Oppose: not a significant news event. (Chuck: Please. Stop.). --ZimZalaBim talk 20:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment: Don't be so quick to knock Chuck. This is the No. 1 story on the AP wire right now. The proposed overhaul of the financial regulatory structure in the US is a hugely significant event. What you can say is that ITN generally waits until something happens -- like Congress actually passing legislation -- rather than tracking events over a long period. But the nomination is not out of line. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:47, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Nominations are needed. Things seem to have slowed down a bit recently... --candlewicke 22:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Even were the story a viable candidate, it wouldn't be posted in the absence of an updated article to which to link, and nominating it in this form is essentially useless. If not something to be knocked, surely something to be discouraged. (talk) 01:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
The link is Obama's plan, an article I started and updated. Maybe there's a better article somewhere, but I don't know what it is. I suppose the Atlas rocket launch to the moon is more obviously an event one on C-span. --Chuck Marean 02:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
It looks like Obama's plan is heading for the dustbin... --candlewicke 03:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Continental Flight 61
It's a very slow day when this is being considered. To be honest aside from the deletion issue this was a very minor incident anyway. For a plane related incident to go up it either needs multiple deaths (i.e. Amsterdam Crash, Madrid crash) or for something remarkable to happen (Hudson Crash, Air France disappearance) --Daviessimo (talk) 19:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand why this would be posted either but then if the Hudson crash was... they both appear very similar right down to the same part of the world and all the passengers being saved. The only difference is that the pilot actually died here. --candlewicke 20:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
"Captain dies while flying plane. Everyone safe." More human interest. This sort of thing, although unusual, is doesn't exactly need 24-hour blanket coverage. Oppose. More Wikinews type.  Cargoking  talk  21:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
(un-indent) I actually seem to remember there being some opposition to the Hudson crash going on ITN because there were no deaths. My feeling would be that a mistake may have been made then and its best not to repeat it. As Cargoking points out this is really a human interest story and thus not really ITN material --Daviessimo (talk) 21:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment. I'm not going to push this nomination, but I disagree with the assertion that anything that's "human interest" should be dismissed. You can call almost all plane crashes "human interest stories" because they rarely have impacts on the broader world. I don't see why ITN should be off-limits to "human interest" stories that draw great interest from mainstream news sources, like the Fritzl case and O.J. Simpson murder case. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
There's a difference between human interest and Fritzl. Human interest is more light happy stories.  Cargoking  talk  21:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Human interest story says, "A human interest story is a feature story that discusses a person or persons in an interactive and/or emotional way." A same-day wire story about an airplane landing with a dead pilot is not a human interest story. A magazine feature about the pilot's life could be considered human interest. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't even know how you can compare those two. Fritzl is a lot more international already in that it happened in Europe and you've actually heard of it. The Simpson article is supported by references from such international publications as USA Today (the source which claims it has been "described as the most publicized criminal trial in history") and one or two from The New York Times, CNN, The LA Times... this line is a bit funny for something that was as big outside America as it was within: "and news organizations nationwide quickly instituted rules prohibiting such manipulation". So no comparison for me whatsoever. --candlewicke 22:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Enter WikiKnittingCorner! Let's just put this story to rest and forget about it. If we want to discuss it, go to the Knitting Corner. This debate on the definition of a word is well... not what we'll be putting on ITN. "Cargoking and Mwalcoff discuss word."  Cargoking  talk  22:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't saying the dead pilot was as notable as OJ or Fritzl. I was only saying that if we were to ban all "human interest" stories using what appeared to be Daviessimo's definition of "human interest," we would be establishing a policy that would ban even stories as notable as OJ or Fritzl when they occur. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. Indeed. I suppose it's better news than here in Ireland. Our national broadcaster RTÉ has a feature on spice burgers.  Cargoking  talk  22:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Bravo! ;) This was going nowhere and you killed it off well with your spice burgers. :) --candlewicke 00:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment sorry to resurrect this dead discussion but there's a big difference between this and US Airways Flight 1549. In the US Airways Flight 1549 case, the plane struck disaster while climbing but the pilot and crew did what they were trained to do in such an emergency and were able to save the crew via a water landing and evacuation but it was still a potentially catastrophic disaster averted. Hence "This emergency ditching and evacuation, with the loss of no lives, is a heroic and unique aviation achievement". In this case, the pilot died which while sad for the pilot and his family, the co-pilot should should have been able to land the plane by himself presuming nothing went wrong and as it turns out there was a relief pilot in case one of the pilots got tired so there was in fact two pilots and the plane didn't even need to divert. (I can't remember if I supported the 1549 or not in any case, but they're quite different) Nil Einne (talk) 16:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Belfast racist violence
Not the strongest candidate, but it provides an update. Physchim62 (talk) 18:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I like this and definitely think it is one to watch but I wonder if it has yet reached the level of 2009 attacks on Indian students in Australia which itself was thought worthy of a deletion nomination? --candlewicke 19:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)#
It has potential to develop, but I think we should maybe wait per WP:CRYSTAL, because if it doesn't then people are going to moan that it is too localised and we'll look like fools. --Daviessimo (talk) 19:24, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I concur. We should wait for now. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:30, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

June 17

ITN candidates for June 17

Space shuttle Endeavour

Space shuttle Endeavour may lift off Wednesday to the space station or else a pair of science spacecraft for the moon as scheduled; Nasa's top officials soon to decide which. (NZ Herald) --Chuck Marean 23:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The Wednesday launch of mission STS-127 will bump the LRO Atlas V rocket carrying the Lunar CRater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) to Thursday June 18.Scientific American Inc. A Discovery News SriMesh | talk 01:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Nope, its been cancelled again [24] --Daviessimo (talk) 07:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it me or are these shuttle launches are so boring, the non-launches seem to be more exciting (LOL). –Howard the Duck 13:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

O'bama speech

--Chuck Marean 07:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

On the same day he had that fight with the fly?! Wow, the man's superhuman! I like the fly story though. Also this will fail because Obama combined with anything gay would have more success around here than financial reform. ;-) Note: I'm just saving someone else the bother of saying this actually. :-) --candlewicke 18:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry. I guess I should have put this in Future events. The story I read made it sound like it was going to be on TV. Instead, it sounds like some sort of private luncheon in which they get copies of documents handed out. I find the subject interesting because deficit spending before Reagan was considered a kind of international currency, I think. I also heard about him swatting the fly. It was on Rush Limbo (or however you spell his last name)--Chuck Marean 18:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I have never heard of Rush Limbo or however you spell his last name. Is he one of Obama's advisors or whatever you call those people who follow people around? --candlewicke 18:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
He must be talking about Rush Limbaugh, an American radio host. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
You do understand I ment his show.--Chuck Marean 20:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Chuck was does that have to do with ITN? In fact I heard it on the News at One. Sean O'Rourke was enjoying himself. So there...  Cargoking  talk  20:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
The fly or the speech? I must take responsibility for turning it towards the fly... :) surely he wasn't enjoying himself because he heard a speech? --candlewicke 21:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I read about a planned speech. I posted the item last night (before somebody else did). I won’t do that again. This morning the speech wasn’t on TV and from what I read on the White House web site reporters weren’t invited. It was just a social function for financial advisors, department heads, and congressional committee members. The list of who attended sounds like they don’t know how to run the financial industry more than the next guy, so maybe it was a prayer luncheon. --Chuck Marean 00:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Huh? --ZimZalaBim talk 06:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Eddie Bauer Inc. files for bankruptcy
I don't think this will be posted. But who knows? :) Thanks. --candlewicke 21:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
The update is currently too short. SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: This is not quite of the scope of GM or Chrysler. --ZimZalaBim talk 16:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

June 16

ITN candidates for June 16


Recount for election. Any interest?  Cargoking  talk  17:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

When we get the final results, yes. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Torture debate
Oppose. There isn’t enough to write about and it’s not exactly an event.-- (talk) 05:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


The Bric countries will hold their first major summit in Russia next week... --candlewicke 01:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

No, it's today. June 16..(BBC) --Chuck Marean 18:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Brazil, Russia, India and China hold a summit in Yekaterinburg Russia about helping international financial institutions during the global recession.(BBC)
I don't know what article to update, but maybe somebody does. --Chuck Marean 07:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
The leaders of the world's biggest emerging markets—Brazil, Russia, India and China (BRIC)—meet for their first formal summit in Yekaterinburg, Russia. (Special coverage by Reuters) Felipe Menegaz 15:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
How come the BRIC article says they held one last year also? --Chuck Marean 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
The update is too short yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
There isn't even a bold article... --candlewicke 17:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
"Brazil, Russia, India and China hold a BRIC summit June 16 in Yekaterinburg Russia about helping international financial institutions during the global recession.(BBC)" This should be in Current events because the paper said it's today. The BRIC article could be expanded a sentence or two. --Chuck Marean 18:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps the focus should be on the "first". Otherwise it just looks ordinary. The BRIC countries of Brazil, Russia, India and China hold their first major summit in Yekaterinburg, Russia. --candlewicke 19:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I've expanded the BRIC article at BRIC#BRIC Summit --Daviessimo (talk) 19:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I think it's ready now... --candlewicke 20:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


The state funeral of Omar Bongo is expected to be attended by "dignitaries from many nations", including French President Nicolas Sarkozy. --candlewicke 01:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I think we just do deaths, not funerals. At least, I believe, that's how it has been done in the past. SpencerT♦Nominate! 15:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Spencer. Besides, we've had enough Bongo-related items. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
That may be premature. From what I've been reading this is big for Gabon and Africa, at least to merit comparisons as an African version of Funeral of Pope John Paul II (Europe) and Death and state funeral of Ronald Reagan (North America) and he was in charge far longer than those two – longer than the two put together actually(!). So I'm not sure it is fair to dismiss this now unless any future funeral nominations of US Presidents and the like are dismissed with the same haste (which may or may not be the case). This is continually being reported around the world. Note that the source is from Australia and France's President will be there. It may be an exceptional funeral, we will know by the time the day arrives. We have had Bongo once actually, we had Madagascar thrice in quick succession and I recall two Nepal ITNs within days of each other recently so it is nothing new and not too much to include the same country if that is where events of significance happen. --candlewicke 22:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
You can't compare Gabon to the US. Gabon has 1.4 million people, few of whom speak English and very few of whom use the English-language Wikipedia. The US has 300 million people, almost all of whom speak English and who account for something like 55% of Wikipedia users. And for whatever reason, news from the US is generally of more interest to people in other English-speaking and Wikipedia-using countries than is news from West Africa. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Please ignore Mwalcoff's comments, since Pope John Paul II was not an American. (The same irrationality again) But I will still have to oppose, because: 1) I would be against featuring the Pope's funeral too. Perhaps I am just not a fan of empty rituals - I hate attending even wedding ceremonies. Gay wedding might be slightly more fun to attend though :-D 2) As for having Madagascar thrice in quick succession, I was the one who allowed it thrice, but please don't use my previous mistake to justify that I can make the same mistake all over again. I was new to the ITN admin job at that time. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I will ignore Mwalcoff's irrationality for I cannot agree or even begin to work that one out and would almost apologise to anyone from Gabon who ends of reading it. I only used Reagan to appeal to the understanding of any Americans reading this - John Paul and Bongo reigned far longer than he or any US President ever did. Still, I felt it was worth nominating all the same and who knows? Maybe I am right and maybe I am wrong. We shall see on the day. ;) --candlewicke 23:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I was referring to Candlewicke's argument that if we ignore Bongo's funeral, we should likewise ignore the funeral of an American president. The argument that all heads of state are the same in news value is absurd. If you were the editor of The New York Times, would you give the same prominence to the death of the mayor of New York City as you would the death of the mayor of Weehawken, New Jersey? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, so Obama maybe has an excuse because of the history surrounding his appointment. But can the same be said for Clinton, Bush, the other Bush... have I forgotten anyone? The irony being that if I have they are probably not worth having their funeral posted... :) But if you post Obama because of the history what about Bongo which is also historic... no I don't understand the Mwalcoff view on this one. Of course your own President is always going to be more notable than any other. But if I look at it from what I know, well I don't know if it's true but there is a line near the start of the current Irish President's article saying "She is Ireland's second female president and the world's first woman to succeed another woman as an elected head of state." I sincerely doubt that will be good enough to have her funeral posted even if it becomes a world event, likewise Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir. But are you suggesting that, when or if the time comes, the funerals of each US President should be posted and that the funeral of someone like Bongo shouldn't? Both of the mayors you speak of above have zero value to me for I have not a clue who either are so I cannot answer that... :) New York is one city, Gabon is a country and population does not come into it (or else you would have to post the deaths of several Chinese people and what about that mayor who was dismissed this week? Shenzhen has close to 9 million inhabitants which made me think that were this an American city he would not be allowed to go forgotten...) --candlewicke 03:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't have an opinion at this point about whether the funeral of an American president should go up on ITN. I was just reacting to your extrapolation that if we make X judgment on Bongo, that means we should make a similar judgment on an American president. My point was you can't compare the two countries. You can't say that the president of one country is the same as the president of another country. Different countries have different levels of interest and news value. Even in your own country's newspapers I'm sure you'll find a lot more news about the US than about Sweden and a lot more about Sweden than about Equatorial Guinea. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:53, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure Bongo is not just any old leader. In the time he was in charge the US had nine different Presidents if I count correctly... so I have just compared the two countries... to say that his country is too small and shouldn't really be considered as he must have had an easy job with barely a million people to look after, etc? I'm just going to disagree with that one. --candlewicke 14:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
We can add Cameroon into the equation now... I was just browsing through the tonnes of Bongo articles on Google News when this caught my eye; you might find it interesting. Remember this is not even the day of his funeral... and my African Reagan comparison would appear to have some truth... --candlewicke 16:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks like a typical statement of condolence from one head of state to another to me. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
well not that im supporting or opposing the event. i just wanna say that putting it out there that there are 300 million ppl in US and make up 55% readership of wiki is a useless argument for any topic since wikipedia is an encyclopedia which means its supposed to be unbiased and so it is not trying to please its viewers. (If anyone disagrees with that please tell me). Secondly, IMO the only funeral till now notable enough was probably Mother Teresa's, So for ITN inclusion we should try and match that kind of international support for a funeral. I am not familier with this funeral but if it is getting that kind of recognition internationally then i would support it. otherwise just leave it. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I was bored yesterday so I looked further into it. This much was easy enough to find with little effort. I could probably expand it based upon whatever happens today and whatever else exists. --candlewicke 15:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Is 40 heads of state (including two French Presidents) good enough as a total? --candlewicke 16:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
To be honest I'm leaning towards support on this because evidently he is very highly regarded in Africa. There are few living world leaders who could pull in the number of dignitaries that has been the case with Omar Bongo. The only others are probably Margeret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela, with maybe the likes of Fidel Castro (mainly from communist or socialist countries) or Michail Gorbachev as well. In those cases there would be less opposition because people know more about what they did, but really who are we to comment of the effect that Bongo may have had on the African people and continent --Daviessimo (talk) 20:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. I'm just glad someone agrees with the facts rather than looking down their noses at Africa which I fear might happen. :-) It seems clear that a lot of other leaders and countries, particularly Cameroon, were affected as well. --candlewicke 20:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I've changed my mind as well. Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per WP:ITN/DC.  Cargoking  talk  20:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Consensus can override almost any rule, per WP:IAR. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a funeral... not a death. But anyway:

The death must meet one or more of the following criteria:

  1. The deceased was in a high ranking office of power, and had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region.
  2. The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such.
  3. The death has a major international impact that affects current events. The modification or creation of multiple articles to take into account the ramifications of a death is a sign that it meets the third criterion.

Now please explain. --candlewicke 20:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile - I have moved it across from my user space. Dignitaries from 40 nations attend the state funeral of former President of Gabon Omar Bongo (pictured) in Libreville? --candlewicke 20:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I will wait to hear what others think. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
OK. That would be best. --candlewicke 21:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Responding to what Ashishg55 said (which really should be on the discussions page, but no matter): Of course the encyclopedia should try to please its users. What is the alternative? That we should not try to do what users want? That we should thumb our nose at the majority and impose our own personal views of what is important? Wikipedia should be written for the readers and not for the editors. Anyway, I oppose putting the funeral on ITN since we already had the death and it's a given that the death of a head of state will be followed by a big funeral. And yes, because far more Wikipedia readers are interested in things like US Sen. John Ensign admitting he had an extramarital affair, which I won't bother nominating for ITN because I know what will happen. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
How do you realistically think that the extramarital affair of a US senator could be posted? The allegedly corrupt Chinese mayor would have more merit than that... :( --candlewicke 00:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's the No. 3 story on the AP wire right now, presumably because it might mean the end of the Ensign's presidential aspirations. It's also No. 3 on Google News US. John Ensign also ranks No. 12 right now on Wikipedia:Popular pages. You wouldn't be the only person who wishes that the personal lives of politicians weren't considered big news, but the fact is a lot of people do care, especially when it's a conservative "family values" politician who has criticized others for their own sexual escapades. Mitigating against inclusion would be the fact that The New York Times and Washington Post have the story buried on their websites. Nevertheless, the case can be made that it is the biggest "new" news of the day in the US and thus should be put up along with the biggest news from the rest of the world. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Instead of going into how many ways this is utterly without logic and wrong I'll just say: No. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
US = the world? Are the rest of us on a different planet? --candlewicke 23:17, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Oh look, the big Africa news story of the day on the BBC's website... listed in the top five most popular stories right now... with loads of external links to countries such as India, Canada and France... would you like to complain to all of these publications for not catering for the tastes of their readers? Or are they all lesser countries anyway? --candlewicke 00:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Personally, I still think that the death was enough, but the new article seems better as a DYK posibility. SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:01, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I agree with Spencer. John Paul II's funeral is the only funeral I would include because of its record dimensions. Every head of state and head of government death is attended by some number of their living counterparts. Levy Mwanawasa and Gaafar Nimeiry are two recent death of very notable presidents, one whilst he was in office but neither had their funerals mentioned. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, thanks everyone... might as well stop what is effectively another "waste of time, effort, bandwidth and resources" so we can all use our time elsewhere. ;-) --candlewicke 01:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Ya it seems like a waste of time to argue. But i will say one thing Mwalcoff please take it out of ur head that US news is more important than what happens in other countries. because in other countries no one cares as much as u think they do. As always if it aint internationally important or atleast of international interest it will not go up. And international interest is decided by ppl living outside US Ashishg55 (talk) 03:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
The key should be how many Wikipedia users are interested in the event, not how many countries are interested in the event. To believe otherwise is to reflect an inherent bias against the US for being a big country and not being divvied up into little ones like Europe. I think individual news events that are of interest to a great many Wikipedia users and serve as good examples of recently updated Wikipedia namespace content should go up, even if the vast majority of interested people live in a single country. We have been ignoring the "international interest" criterion time and again for things like national elections anyway, so we might as well replace it with something that makes more sense. The key is that ITN as a whole remains geographically diverse, that is, that it not be dominated by events from any one country. This is how they do it at WP:OTD (On this day), where they have some stuff from the US, some from the UK, some from other English-speaking countries and some from the rest of the world. Not every event on OTD is "international" -- for example, today they have the 1994 arrest of O.J. Simpson. But OTD as a whole is geographically diverse. I don't see why some people get so hung up about ITN suggestions. Why does it bother them if something goes up on ITN that they don't personally have an interest in? I don't give a damn about the BRIC summit but I don't demand that it be taken down. There's room enough to include lots of people's suggestions. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 05:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Mwalcoff, will you please read the article on the English language. Yes the US is the largest country were it is a primary language but there are over 50 countries worldwide were it is an official language and anywhere up to 1.5 billion people who have a degree of command over the language. If you disagree with those facts then I suggest you set up a website called Americopedia, where you can list as many trivial US news items as you like --Daviessimo (talk) 07:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
OTD is not like ITN... there is only so many things that happened OTD whereas there are 100 maybe 1000s of news events that take place all over the world. We pick maybe 2 a day. So no there is no room to include all suggestions. That is why ITN u need to be extremely picky :) Ashishg55 (talk) 12:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a chart of English Wikipedia contributors by country from December 2007, presumably based on anonymous IP contributions:
You can see that there are more contributors from the US than from all other countries combined. So it's not out of line to suggest that major American news items run on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
But ITN is neither about America nor the news. And your chart is nearly two years out of date? --candlewicke 23:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
And it's not from even from the date you've provided. :( Or your source is severely incorrect. --candlewicke 23:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
The original upload date was 12/27/07, and it was moved to the Commons in March 2008. If you can find a newer chart, great. I doubt the numbers have changed much over the past year and a half. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:43, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The other page hosting this image has a caption claiming it is from September 2006... --candlewicke 01:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
So technically what u r saying is its Canada thats the winner here... clearly %wise being 1/10th the population of US it has more people contributing... lol. Ashishg55 (talk) 04:16, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment Wait, wait, wait... I've heard this 55% of wikipedia users before and always presumed it has some merit, way more then the largest first language claim anyway (which so far, I've never seen explained why only first language matter). But now I find out not only is this apparently based on 2-3 year old statistics, but it's based on anonymous IP contributions?????? Has it occured to anyone that perhaps if your English level is moderate, you might be more reluctant to contribute to wikipedia, even if you regularly read it??? Let's not forget that the main page is supposed to be for the reader not the editor! Nil Einne (talk) 17:09, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

June 15

ITN candidates for June 15

2009 pandemic flu

First death in Europe, a man in Scotland TouLouse (talk) 09:23, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Not only the first in Europe but the first outside of the Americas. Not sure how big a story this is, the recent resurgence of flu in the southern hemisphere is probably scarier (this women died of complications from other health problems, not just the flu) - Dumelow (talk) 10:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as it's nothing more than scaremongering. The patient had underlying health conditions and the fact that it's a pandemic reflects its geographical spread rather than an increase in severity. Swine flu is everywhere now so I think something really significant and new would have to happen for it to appear on ITN again. People die every day from flus and various other health problems, let's not forget that. --candlewicke 14:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, oppose. Thue | talk 18:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as per the Barack Obama speech. Netanyahu seems to be getting The Onion to write his speeches for him [27]: now THAT would be ITN-worthy :P Physchim62 (talk) 01:18, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, the Times Online article makes it sound like the prime minister thinks the Palestinians should accept that the Israelis are not going to leave. I think he does not favor a separate Palestine. Rather, I think he believes that the Palestinians should be willing to share the entire area and vice versa. Christians, of course, claim an historic right to the area as well. The prime minister wants them to disarm, so the The Onion is wrong. --Chuck Marean 02:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
An "American fake news organization" wrong? :-O What is the world coming to? --candlewicke 02:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as a non-story. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 08:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

LA Won

some blurb that says they won plus kobe is mvp? Ashishg55 (talk) 03:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Aye, I'd say that's a shoe-in. Recognizance (talk) 03:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
What sport is this for? - Dumelow (talk) 10:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
  • In some sport, the Lakers win their 15th NBA title.(msnbc) --Chuck Marean 07:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
2009 NBA Finals#Game 5 now has prose and a reference about the game. –Howard the Duck 13:12, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
We can use a pic from the Kobe Bryant article to offset the white people photo bias... (LOL). –Howard the Duck 13:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a new blurb to include the image, please. (Without just stating (Kobe Bryant pictured)) --BorgQueen (talk) 14:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
(Finals MVP Kobe Bryant pictured). –Howard the Duck 14:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd insist changing "MVP" into "Finals MVP" as MVP is a different thing... –Howard the Duck 14:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

June 14

ITN candidates for June 14

Herschel space observatory cryocover opens
The update is too short yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Le Mans 24 hours

The Le Mans 24 hours conclude - winner will need to put on main page. (2009 24 Hours of Le Mans). D.M.N. (talk) 12:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Its listed at WP:ITNR so as long as there is an adequate update to the article post-race then it will be put up --Daviessimo (talk) 13:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
"David Brabham, Marc Gené and Alexander Wurz win the 2009 24 Hours of Le Mans race" or do we normally name the team (Peugeot Total)? - Dumelow (talk) 18:35, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 Iranian election protests

2009 Iranian election protests: Believing no one will seriously oppose, going to post soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Collective Security Treaty Organisation
Hmm, a slow ITN day, yes? If anyone is willing to update either Collective Security Treaty Organisation or Belarus–Russia relations, perhaps we could use this item. 2009 Russian ban of Belarusian dairy products is a bit too old, I am afraid. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I personally find it very interesting (and fantastic) but I oppose. It just doesn't seem like an ITN. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


27 UN barges carrying aid escorted by the People's Liberation Army are attacked by tribesmen on the Sobat River, Sudan. There are rumours of dozens of fatalities and soldiers being taken to hospital. Sounds fairly notable to me but I will try to gather some more sources (we should probably also wait confirmation of casualties). (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

It occurred on Friday when members of the Jikany Nuer tribe decided to search the barges as they suspected that they might be carrying arms to their enemies in the Lou Nuer. Having searched one barge and found only aid they opened fire when the rest of the convoy attempted to carry on its journey. At least 40 have been killed and 735 tonnes of aid lost. 16 barges escaped back to Nasir, their point of origin, but 11 remain unaccounted for. (Reuters) (AFP). There's probably enough here to make a half-decent article about it, any suggestiosn for a title? - Dumelow (talk) 16:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Reading your story, the one word comes to my mind is "massacre". --BorgQueen (talk) 16:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Or perhaps 2009 Sobat River ambush? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
OK I hope to get an article written in a few hours (I have a few things to do first) - Dumelow (talk) 17:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
OK the article is up. Perhaps something like: "At least 40 people are killed during an attack by tribesmen on a World Food Programme convoy near to Nasir, Sudan" - Dumelow (talk) 18:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
A World Food Programme convoy is attacked by tribesmen near Nasir, Sudan why? Or if your point is that people were killed, maybe that should come at the end of the headline. When put at the beginning, it sounds to me like your point is that the world is bad, and it's not all bad. --Chuck Marean 20:55, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Downplaying the deaths of human beings--the most important part of the story--because it offends your delicate sensibilities is a non-starter, I'm afraid. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 08:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

June 13

ITN candidates for June 13

Space Shuttle Endeavour
Support; it could be worded something like this: The Space shuttle Endeavour launch to the International Space Station for a 16-day mission for more assembly of the Japanese Kibo laboratory complex was scrubbed at 12:26 a.m. EDT because of a gaseous hydrogen leak on a vent line.(NASA). News like that I suppose gives the program suspense.--Chuck Marean 05:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Flight delayed. [28] Therequiembellishere (talk) 07:20, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

North Korea

After the latest UN resolution against them (this time with bite), North Korea has made a promise to weaponise its entire plutonium stock. [29] Therequiembellishere (talk) 07:20, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. Thue | talk 09:06, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Support since "Pyongyang has for the first time confirmed it is seeking to enrich uranium in efforts to develop nuclear weapons". --candlewicke 17:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Element 112
"Element 112 has been officially recognezed by IUPAC and will be added to the periodic table once a name will be chose.(Reuters)."

Nergaal (talk) 16:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Item was nominated a couple of days ago and the concensus was to wait until it is given an official name --Daviessimo (talk) 17:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. Although this happened yesterday in California, globally that’s almost today, and the speech exemplifies the free-market movement that’s been inflating prices the U.S. since Reagan.--Chuck Marean 17:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. It's just a speech... Therequiembellishere (talk) 18:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Lets not start my Obama row, all over again....  Cargoking  talk  20:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, it's more than a speech. It highlight’s a pro-business-major policy. Too bad I majored in math and science. -- Chuck Marean 21:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, a speech is a speech regardless of the topic. Therequiembellishere (talk) 23:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

June 12

ITN candidates for June 12

Could be? Enough said. --candlewicke 14:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


U.S. completes its switch from analog to digital television.(The Washington Times)--Chuck Marean 16:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Its good to know that but its useless for ITN i think as the whole world is converting slowly to digital tv and i dont think evrey time a region switches it should be on main page.Jason Rees (talk) 16:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd support this. It's pretty important over here in the U.S. –Juliancolton | Talk 16:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this the first country in the world?  Cargoking  talk  16:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
No parts of wales switched over last year.Jason Rees (talk) 16:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Luxembourg was the first country to complete it, according to this article. Oppose. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose then.  Cargoking  talk  17:00, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
If that is the case then I'm leaning towards oppose as well. Had this been the first country to completely switch over then I think it could have gone up, but in reality we can't put it up every time someone changes --Daviessimo (talk) 17:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment: The US is the largest country to have completed the transition. However, I dunno. humour begin: And my TV went from eight channels to two - the Spanish channel and the same, repeating DTV announcement. That's why this item should go up. A 75% reduction in MY television service is A MAJOR ISSUE!!!! And it should be on ITN. end humor I still gotta get me a converter box. :P. SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:07, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: First, I fear this mention is too US-centric and not of any larger global significance. Second, I don't think stating the switch has been "completed" is quite accurate: do we know for a fact that all broadcasters in the country made the switch? Certainly not all televisions have been properly fitted to receive the digital signals, which could also be seen as an incomplete switch. --ZimZalaBim talk 01:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

In fact, it's BRIC... --candlewicke 01:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Ferrero Rocher hazelnut fraud (not)

2009 Stanley Cup Finals


Only lazy writers would delay this blurb since it's at WP:ITNR. –Howard the Duck 02:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

shouldnt it say "in game seven" instead of "in seven games"? Ashishg55 (talk) 13:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
It doesn’t start until 11 PM PDT.--Chuck Marean 15:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Pens win. Now for someone to write what happened. –Howard the Duck 02:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Geez, those guys are quick. It has a summary for game 7 already. Credits not on me. –Howard the Duck 02:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
May I suggest adding a blurb about Sidney Crosby becoming the youngest captain in NHL history to win the Stanley Cup? —Krm500 (Communicate!) 03:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Was he the playoffs MVP? –Howard the Duck 03:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
No Evgeni Malkin was, but becoming the youngest captain to win a 116 year old trophy trumps an MVP selection IMO. I can bring it up at WT:HOCKEY and see what the consensus there is. —Krm500 (Communicate!) 03:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
What? I wonder why their web site said the game starts at 8 ET. --Chuck Marean 04:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Iranian election

Iranians go to the polls to elect a new president. The four candidates are incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Mehdi Karroubi, Mir-Hossein Mousavi and Mohsen Rezaee. Article is at Iranian presidential election, 2009. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 14:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Strongly support This election is key to the geopolitics of the Middle East, as well as other things international and domestic. There will probably be a runoff though considering there is a radical, a conservative, a moderate, and a reformist. So I am not sure how we want to do this.--Metallurgist (talk) 21:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Same as ever maybe? --candlewicke 23:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. They are nearly over! Hurry up.  Cargoking  talk  15:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Support for when the results are published. Jolly Ω Janner 17:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems to be a tie. The results will be announced tomorrow.(Times Online) --Chuck Marean 19:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
A tie? Was it a tie or did no one reach 51%? It was my understanding that in that case, there will be a runoff [30] so perhaps that could be the news. 04redsox07 (talk) 19:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The article I read said they were both claiming to have won, based on their own exit polls.--Chuck Marean 04:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
According to official results Ahmadinejad has won, with no need of a run-off (BBC). Suggest something like: "Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wins relection as President of Iran" - Dumelow (talk) 10:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Moved from 13 June section: There is an official result from the Iranian election commision. That is controlled by Ahmadinejad's Interior Ministry, but since I am assuming that they are organizing the election, I think they are official enough to report. Suggested item:

The Iranian election commission announces that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has won the Iranian presidential election with 65% of the vote against Mir-Hossein Mousavi's 32%. Mousavi is making allegations of election fraud. (unsigned but written by User:Thue)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I found this. Does anyone know anything about it? --candlewicke 00:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't seem that newsworthy to me outside of the city being selected. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
It beat cities from across the world and is a UN award. --candlewicke 01:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
But I'm sure UNESCO hands out awards often. I don't think this will be played very highly in the media. If the European media make a big deal out of it, that will be different. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
See also City of Literature. –Howard the Duck 03:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Peru Violence
  • What about this. It seems to have been getting steadily worse over the last several days --Daviessimo (talk) 14:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 17:05, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

June 11

ITN candidates for June 11

Well based on this I support on both accounts.--Daviessimo (talk) 20:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael Thomas wins the 2009 International IMPAC Dublin Literary Award for his debut novel, Man Gone Down. (Is America happy now?) --candlewicke 00:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
OK to add to WP:ITNR then? --candlewicke 00:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Wait for next year. –Howard the Duck 02:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
So that it can be forgotten? --candlewicke 02:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Isn't this an annual award? –Howard the Duck 02:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The winner was only announced yesterday so why we would wait for next year I'm not sure. If you look at the articles this is recognised as the most valuable and international of literature awards open to books written in any language. We have poetry, film and music awards so I see no reason to oppose this --Daviessimo (talk) 07:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I presume Howard must have meant it as a joke since the Super 14 recurring item was not updated in time and he wants to leave this until next year as well. But it makes more sense to add it now to both ITN and ITNR. --candlewicke 14:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
"Next year" refers to the addition of this item to WP:ITNR. I don't what happened to the poet laurate blurb to happen again so we'd have to wait next year to see if this is truly worthy of a recurring mention. –Howard the Duck 02:31, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
It is about to leave the Main Page and I don't think anyone has raised a complaint? --candlewicke 22:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Carrie Prejean
If Prejean was assassinated by gays then we'll talk. –Howard the Duck 08:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Would that be acceptable? :-) --candlewicke 10:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The Gay’s probably don’t want their name used that way, and Jews and Christians probably don’t want the rainbow used that way either. She’s on the front page of this morning’s paper. I think the issue is: since when are the girls in a beauty contest applying for a job? In the current events, someone re-wrote it to make the “contractual obligations” sound normal, and also added the word “stripped.” Someone not signed in later removed the news, so I will again point out that the news is on the front page of this morning’s newspaper. -- Chuck Marean 20:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
may i ask which newspaper this is Ashishg55 (talk) 20:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
What does the gay Jew Christian comment mean? I don't think Jews and Christians own the rainbow either... --candlewicke 20:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC) for june 11--Chuck Marean 21:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
My point was that her getting fired is a current event, and yet somebody once again removed what I put in current events from current events (I think because I'm not an admin). I was hinting that maybe an admin with allys might like to put it back into the current events. My joke about the last name and the rainbow was not my point. However, in the bible the rainbow means God’s attempt to control his temper, since it’s a sign in the story of Noah’s Ark that he won’t drown everyone again. Or is that too off the subject? --Chuck Marean 21:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I can only speculate. If the rainbow is a sign that God won't drown everyone again then that is positive surely? So using a rainbow anywhere is a celebration of this, is it? --candlewicke 21:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I think Howard the Duck's comment above about the headline not being bloody enough for In the news is what I was responding to. I was trying to joke back and no offence was intended. I also think the current events page would be more fun if my news items were kept. I went to the trouble to find them, so for someone to dial-up just to remove them is not fair. --Chuck Marean 02:14, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Isn't the rainbow flag a gay symbol? –Howard the Duck 02:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I know. I feel both your and Romania's pain right now. But do you really think they're dialling up just to get at you? They play around with us all at P:CE (although they've gone a bit quiet in the past few days so you're really unfortunate to still be suffering from them targeting you...) --candlewicke 02:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

New element discovered or synthesized or what it is supposed to be called. –Howard the Duck 08:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
A news link, please? --BorgQueen (talk) 09:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd usually be keen to have chemistry on the Main page, but this really is a non-story. The element was first made ten years ago, all that's happened now is that the bigwigs at IUPAC have finally accepted it. Physchim62 (talk) 09:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Source - [31]. Personally I think its significant because by being accepted it can now be officially added to the periodic table, so I'm going to support --Daviessimo (talk) 10:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I would think that any new addition to the periodic table would be notable. --candlewicke 17:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a nice blurb, please. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Hm, surely this is ITN material, but maybe not right now. I'd prefer having it when it is named and actually added to the periodic system. After all, the element was created more than 10 years ago. --Tone 19:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Tone. After ten years what's a couple more days --Daviessimo (talk) 20:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Note that this really is a record, beating Zidane's fee in euros. Physchim62 (talk) 09:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Again?! Oppose. Note that this is now being broken on a daily basis and we'll soon be snowed under by football ITNs at this rate. This list (taken from the previous nomination) suggests it was broken, at most, once per year as far back as 2000 and then 1992 and previously only 1922... this is becoming too much like daily news now and thus, like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. before it, is rapidly losing its significance. --candlewicke 10:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Two thing I would point out. Firstly this transfer is not completed yet so it hasn't broken any record yet. Secondly and in relation to Candlewickes point I personally don't believe this record will be beaten any time soon because there is probably only one player who would command a higher fee (Lionel Messi). Also during the period in question you mention there was reckless spending by big Italian clubs, which is also never likely to be repeated so I don't think we can use that period to prove the rule. Anyway it has been eight years since Zidane's record --Daviessimo (talk) 10:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
But "probably" is speculation and one player is still one player... it might even be two, three, several more by next week/month... but I suppose the other one didn't get posted either so maybe it is time to do so? I will wait to see what everybody thinks. --candlewicke 12:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I am leaning towards support... --BorgQueen (talk) 12:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
By tomorrow some player will be sold for 100 million. Strong oppose. Aren't you glad Kaka didn't get into ITN now? CargoK user talk 12:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
If u read my last comment in previous convo then this is exactly the reason i was against it. No guarantee that tomorrow there wont be another player traded for even more. Had we have posted the last one this one would have became mandatory and so would the next one. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Note that Christiano Ronaldo is currently the No. 1 link on WP:Popular and Real Madrid is No. 4. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 12:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Even though I weakly supported this nom, Template:Popular_articles is quite irrelevant in this discussion. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Could everyone check out the Romanian football story under the previous day and judge it for its own individual merits? One of the points I made about it is that it seems to be a one-off and, unlike the transfers, hasn't changed today. It is also being reported in Canada which I found strange as I wasn't aware that the sport was very popular in that country. It might be a good compromise if we are to have a football ITN. --candlewicke 17:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Well ppl here in canada are all from some other country lol so even though the game itself isnt as popular everyone still likes it. i am going to give this one a weak support since we didnt post kaka's. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Support, although Daviessimo said that the transfer hadn't happened yet. When the contract is made, it should be posted. Jolly Ω Janner 15:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Please change the word "soccer" to "footballer". It could promote some unwanted anger from Europeans... Jolly Ω Janner 15:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Global Pandemic

If the WHO declare Swine Flu a pandemic I think it should go up, because accoring to this its been 40 years since we've had one --Daviessimo (talk) 11:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Support upon official declaration. --candlewicke 11:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Agree. but is there any special thing that they will do once a pandamic has been declared or things stay the same. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Not really. The declaration of a pandemic, which from current sources seems extremely likely is primarily a reflection of the geographic spread of the virus then its severity or other such issues and the WHO themselves are trying to manage publicity to ensure the declaration is not misunderstood and doesn't trigger a panic. From what I understand all they will recommend is continuing careful management in affected countries Nil Einne (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I came specifically to start this discussion but see there's already one .Support upon official declaration and article appropriately updated. I think we have to be careful with the wording though since we don't want to make this sound more serious then it is Nil Einne (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. --bender235 (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest focusing on fact that its first one in 40 years in the blurb. since people already know enough about swine flu and raising the level from 5 to 6 doesnt mean much to them. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Its offical. WHO declared it. BBC Ashishg55 (talk) 14:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The BBC might be jumping the gun just slightly, but there is a news conference at the WHO at 1600UTC [32]. Physchim62 (talk) 14:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. Very important. [33] [34] Two sources. CargoK user talk 14:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a well-worded blurb, please. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
How about "The World Health Organisation declares a Global Swine Flu Pandemic, the first pandemic declaration since 1968" --Daviessimo (talk) 15:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

←I'd prefer something more boring:

Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

June 10

ITN candidates for June 10

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting

An 88-year-old white supremacist kills a security guard at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum before being shot himself, sparking a panicked evacuation. Not your everyday single-fatality shooting. Very strong interest from news sources -- No. 1 story on AP, CNN, Google News US; front page at Globe & Mail (Toronto), The Times (London). Good example of Wikipedia response to current event. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it really that notable, though? A security guard died because of a racist murderer but, in turn, managed to nearly kill the former. Horrific? Yes. Fascinating? Perhaps. Notable? Just because it was at the national Holocaust Museum doesn't make put it on another footing over over murders. -- I oppose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Therequiembellishere (talkcontribs) 01:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I am trying to place this in any other country and I cannot see how it would gain any support whatsoever... --candlewicke 01:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
It wouldn't and nor should it be the case with the United States. It has received a lot of press, an unnatural amount in my opinion. Americans will view this with the same disinterest along with everyone else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Therequiembellishere (talkcontribs) 01:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure it is far more notable than the interim president of Gabon to 90% of Wikipedia's readership. The fact is this has been a huge story all day in the American media, and there is no reason that, since the US accounts for the vast majority of native English speakers and roughly half of Wikipedia users, that US items should not appear at least sometimes on ITN. We should be basing ITN entries on what is literally "in the news" and what articles are good examples of recently updated content, not on your or BorgQueen's biased views on what's really important. If you have a problem with this story being so prominent, you should take it up with CNN, The New York Times, the BBC, the Associated Press and the thousands of other news sources that have made it prominent, and the millions of real people out there who must think it's a pretty damn notable story. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Well Susan Boyle was quite a prominent story too, as was Anna Nicole Smith's death and a number of celebrity meltdowns as well as stuff about the new year during the new year and currently flight 447 is perpetually prominent and to a lesser extent H1N1 and North Korea. Although I believe you may support these stories, I'm somewhat doubtful we'd hear the end of it if we put them on ITN. Incidentally, US stories appear quite frequently on ITN. And as you well know, the name ITN is a poor choice of name. BTW, the vast majority of English speakers do not even use the internet. There's no reason to restrict ourselves to native speakers. P.S. The top 3 story on CNN at the moment is "Miss California USA Prejean dethroned" while the most read (I think) story on Fox News "Exclusive: Miss California Carrie Prejean Loses Her Crown", meanwhile the 7th most read on Fox News is "Woman Mistakenly Junks Mattress With $1 Million Inside" while on BBC World "Israel woman 'bins $1m mattress'" is number 10. Looks like we have two more winners! Nil Einne (talk) 03:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The thousands of other news sources are exactly that. Wikipedia isn't. --candlewicke 03:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
And the Amerocentric view comes up. Look, this is the English version of Wikipedia. Not the English as a First Language version. A great number of people in this world speak English now; it has become the lingua franca of the twenty-first century to some extent. To suggest that the United States is above the others is a self-centred image. American stories are still frequently put on ITN but they needn't always be. If there isn't a significant American occurrence for a few weeks, it doesn't mean we've been forgotten. All changes in state leadership are notable by their very nature, regardless of their political power. And frankly, every time something new happens, CNN, AP and BBC put it on their main page. For example on the BBC home page right now. See? As a final note, I'd like to impress that Wikipedia isn't like the other news sources because it isn't one (as I'm sure you knew, candlewickle). That's Wikinews. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Support for the mattress. Mattresses are globally significant and will one day take over the world... oh wait, that's just me staring into my BALL... --candlewicke 03:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd also like to know why you mention BorgQueen at all. She hasn't been involved. Two unsigned comments were me. I had a brain lapse. I must say it's a rather interesting assumption to make... Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems Mwalcoff mentioned my name just because I've opposed some of U.S.-related nominations in the past. He must have forgotten that it was me who got into trouble for putting the Obama speech and Blackwater Worldwide on Main Page. This alone shows that his arguments are not really based on logic or rationality. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
(Candlewickle, I think her words of wisdom are of note "People have to take everything in proportion and thank God for the good and the bad" However, I like to see an article, and of note "there has been no comment from her mother." :-P ) Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I have ignored any comments since I don't really want to debate this further but I'm please to annouce the mattress story is now 6 on CNN, above the guard one, (it's also on the front page under popular news) although sadly it's dropped off BBC (I guess cause the Brits are the trend setters and its now yesterday's news while Americans are followers) so I'm please to confirm I've picked a winner. Nil Einne (talk) 07:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I am going to restate Therequiembellishere's point that Quite a bit of world speaks english. or atleast can understand it. So news items should not be for country where english is the first language. And Mwalcoff if u really believe that a story such as this should go up because CNN does not wanna let it go then seriously rethink ur definition of bias. And stop making accusations that other people are Biased since u promote every single US item regardless of its importance. Ashishg55 (talk) 05:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
And I would like to clarify that I recall creating at least two US ITNs this year already (non-NASA or other WP:ITNR events at that). I also supported the judge when I heard she was the first of whatever it was but then realised that all the fuss was over a nomination. Why would I have bothered if I had biased views? It wouldn't have been in my best interests at all. The Main Page is not suffering and in need of US article links; take a look at this batch of DYKs I discovered on the Main Page a few hours ago - riddled with male US biographies on the military, NFL, country music and a painter who just happened to be born in Switzerland. I'm aware DYK gets a lot of American entries but that was ridiculous (I know that there are some approved non-American biography hooks - both male and female - over there). ITN does not have to be like that, it can screen events for the sake of some basic balance. --candlewicke 10:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't accusing BorgQueen or Candlewicke of any specific bias. I'm just saying we all have biases, and to base ITN on what we think is "important" rather than to simply reflect what the media and Wikipedia users think is notable is to impose our own views. There is a definite tone of elitism and geekery on ITN in which a certain type of news gets priority over what most actual users are interested in. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 12:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
But Wikipedia is first and foremost and encyclopaedia. In 50 years time people will not open an encyclopaedia and read about a security guard being shot by a racist nut, but they will read about Omar Bongo or the Danish Throne or a bombing at a 5-star hotel in Pakistan. ITN is a place to showcase encyclopaedic articles that relate to current events - its not a news ticker --Daviessimo (talk) 12:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
If you don't think the Holocaust museum shooting or the dethronement of Miss California is encyclopedic, you should take it to Wikipedia:Articles for Deletion. It's long been accepted on Wikipedia that current events and pop culture are acceptable topics for articles. If they're acceptable topics for articles, they should be acceptable topics for which we can use ITN to feature recently updated articles. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Mwalcoff, what would your view on the Romanian football nom (below this) be? It seems to be hanging in the balance... --candlewicke 02:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Unirea Urziceni

Unirea Urziceni wins the Liga I 2008-09 (Romanian Football League) for the first time and Urziceni will be the only one town which has ever Qualified in the Group of UEFA Champions League with only 17000 population. TouLouse (talk) 19:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Wahoo! Victory! But how might I ask is this notable enough for ITN? The world's record transfer (or whatever it was) is still stuck down below... --candlewicke 20:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Interesting, but not quite ITN material. Winners to the tournaments (not qualifications, regardless of firsts) are posted. SpencerT♦Nominate! 23:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Support So by your words, any sport final is a no go. Then I will oppose the Superbowl and Fa cup. This is new worthy as it is equivalent to both. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 05:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment: Article is completely unreferenced. This will have to be addressed first. But if it is the Romanian equivalent of the Superbowl, an WP:ITNR event, I will have to support in the interests of fairness and neutrality and, as Spencer said, they have won said tournament. Better than having someone complain about its absence despite it being nominated. --candlewicke 12:27, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Romania...this not happens every year, maybe two or three per century...I found references here [35] [36] to be more reliable. Thanks! TouLouse (talk) 13:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to Oppose as well. The Superbowl, World Series and NBA Final are only included because they are the highest levels of their respective sports. Football is a truly global sport so its not possible to make a direct comparisons. Romanian football is only ranked 9th in Europe and when South American leagues are factored in its will probably be even lower. If this goes up then in the interests of fairness you'll have to start putting things up from England or Argentina or Turkey --Daviessimo (talk) 13:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Also I think we have to be wary of the population claim because the CL has changed so much in the last 15 years its hard to find comparisons. For example Floriana F.C. and Íþróttabandalag Akraness have both qualified for the CL proper (i.e. not a qualifying or preliminary round) and they come from towns with smaller populations. However, because the format has changed, they have never technically played in the group stage, although in reality they got to same stage as Unirea Urziceni. When they qualified they had two knockout rounds prior to the group stage, as opposed to now where the groups preceed the knockout rounds --Daviessimo (talk) 13:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Not...These two teams Floriana F.C. and Íþróttabandalag Akraness didn't reach that level (UCL Gruops)...This performance of this teams which in 2005 played in Romanian second division...could be more interesting, in comparison with a record transfer...or political changes in Gabon. Isn't it?TouLouse (talk) 14:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) If you read my post you would see that I explained the issue above. They reached the first proper stage of the CL just like Unirea but when they did it the first stages were knockout rounds rather than groups (it is this factor that makes the claim hard to verify). The reality is that interest wise this item is very localised and beyond Romania there will be little or no interest. The claims need to be supported with reliable sources that can be verified. In one you state they are the first town to qualify, which is completely false with clubs from towns such as Thun, Auxerre, Blackburn and many more having qualified before --Daviessimo (talk) 14:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I updated the article earlier but have just come back now. I'm not really sure why each country ought to be included. For instance, I was unaware that that England or Argentina or Turkey regard their versions as their Superbowl, however this seems to be the case with Romania. And who are the English or Americans to tell the Romanians what sport they should choose to follow? But apart from that, the story of the team itself is also fairly exceptional, they seem to have beaten a former CL winner to win this competition and have come from nowhere as a small-town club with a few thousand fans who weren't even in the competition three years ago. I'm not sure how often this happens in the world of football but the more I read it the more I am convinced to still support. It is a complete contrast to all the money being thrown around at one player in the other football nominations we've had recently - there are at least two examples of that this week, this is the only one of a team. Also, if someone could tell me why someone in The Canadian Press is interested in writing an entire report on their exploits, that would be much appreciated - I am not overly familiar with Canada-Romania relations (the link is rather bare). This story seems to meet the criteria of being covered internationally - the fact that it's not at WP:ITNR is no reason to omit it as it isn't a rock-solid policy and I believe someone previously suggested that more football stories were needed anyway. Here is a one-off story which need not be recurring - it is not too much to post Romania one year and not post it the next. --candlewicke 17:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Well just off the top of my head you have Hoffenheim or ChievoVerona who are 'small' town clubs that have managed to at times compete with the big boys in recent seasons. The reason I'm opposed to this is because, the claims made by the nominator don't appear to be true. I've already provided examples of other town clubs that have got to the same stage and also shown that in the mid 1990s very small towns (i.e. <10,000 people) have been represented. That leaves the notability of them winning the league, which is IMHO not notable. Also this year you've had Wolfsburg winning their first ever Bundesliga or AZ Alkmaar who have broken the hegemony of the big three Dutch clubs by becoming the first non Ajax, Feyenoord or PSV side to win the Eredivisie since the early 1980s. To be honest the winner of the UEFA Cup was more notable but people didn't want that up so if you put this up you're almost certain to get complaints over on the main talk page. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Thx candlewicke for your support...I think it's a major performance of a very small football team (their stadium capacity is 7000)...that could be promoted. No more news from Romania was on this section. TouLouse (talk) 17:56, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Just to clarify, because there seems to be confusion earlier in the debate, this competition is in no way similar to the Superbowl. The superbowl is the top level of American Football in the world bar none and that is why it is included. The top level of club football is technically the World Club Championship, which is the only global team competition in football. Below this you then have regional football tournaments such as the Copa America or Champions League, which are in reality more highly regarded than the CWC and this is why they are recurring items (not even all of them when in reality they all should be). It is by winning this that you qualify for the CWC. Below this level you then have your domestic leagues, which are each governed by a regional football body. European Leagues are generally regarded as the best in the world led by the big three of Italy, Spain and England. UEFA ranks the leagues based on performance in Europe, which dictates qualification for European football tournaments (see UEFA coefficient)
This nomination is about a team who has won the Romanian national championship, which is only ranked 9th in Europe by UEFA. This entitles them to automatic qualification to the Champions League along with 16 other sides. They will in turn be joined by 16 others who must first go through qualifying. When you consider this you can see how low in relative terms this competition falls in the football pyramid (below 8 other leagues in Europe < regional international team comps < world club championship). Thus IMHO opinion this isn't a notable enough achievement in the big scheme of things. I've provided examples of similarly notable events that have occured this season in other leagues and somewhere in the world these sought of things happen every season. There is nothing that makes this achievement stand out --Daviessimo (talk) 18:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes Daviessimo, but that type of performances are very rarely...and not happens every year. TouLouse (talk) 18:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
For example this is the best performance of a little team in Romanian football history. (91 editions). [37] TouLouse (talk) 18:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree and still support as I haven't seen anything in the above to make me change my mind, it certainly is big for Romania and has crossed countries and oceans to Canada. Did the winning teams from Holland and Germany rise from the smaller leagues three seasons previously? And did the teams competing with "the big boys" actually beat them and win their entire competition? A first since the early eighties versus a first ever?! How can there not be only one winner of that argument? Complaints on the talk page are not a good reason for not posting, about half the ITNs we post receive some form of complaint anyway and a lot survive because nobody can come up with a valid reason besides "I don't like it". --candlewicke 18:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Count so far: 3 supports, 2 opposes. The first oppose also appears to contradict itself based upon what the following support says and I, having supported it too, am unconvinced by the arguments offered by the other oppose. Just an observation of consensus. --candlewicke 18:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

For what this statement is worth, the Canadian Press article is lifted from a Associated Press article -- ergo, it wasn't them (CP) who wrote the article. I presume this is somewhat standard fare for "offbeat" news; two years ago, the New York Times had an article, and another article on 2006 about Filipino basketball. Must've been a slow news day. –Howard the Duck 18:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I wrote a blurb if someone will post it: << Unirea Urziceni, a very small team, make a major performance to qualify for the groups of UEFA Champions League after have won for the first time Romanian Football League. >> TouLouse (talk) 19:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Did the NYT/Filipino basketball articles tell of a team rising from nowhere and beating the best in their country, etc, etc as explained above? They seem ordinary enough reports, I wonder how they could have gone on ITN? They can't really be compared to this. --candlewicke 19:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
No. But they did tell presidents, senators, ambassadors and even Gilbert Arenas (LOL) watching. –Howard the Duck 19:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Best to keep it simple (it's more the team, than the league that this case is built on). In association football, FC Unirea Urziceni win the 2008-09 Liga I Romanian Football League by drawing their final match with FC Steaua Bucureşti. --candlewicke 19:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it true that FC Steaua Bucureşti were "the first Eastern European team to win the UEFA Champions League being victorious in the 1986 European Cup final"? Seems to make this even more impressive. --candlewicke 19:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
How so? That was more than 20 years ago. Eastern European teams had fared badly in the Champions League, except for a few notable exceptions like Fenebarche when they took Chelsea to the limit a few years back. FC BATE's and Anorthosis Famagusta FC's feat were even more impressive since they started out in the first qualifying round, and were the first teams from their countries to qualify for the group stages; the reason why this team qualified outright is because the Romanian League got a free pass to the group stage due to the bigger leagues having used up all of their "free passes." And BATE finished last in their group. –Howard the Duck 19:27, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
You can't make out this is more notable because they beat a side who were 20 years ago European Champions. Nottingham Forest have won two European Cups, yet they were relegated to the third tier of English football in 2005. I still think there is too much of a POV argument being used for this to go up, because it is being made out that this achievement is more notable than other first time winners, when in reality it is not --Daviessimo (talk) 19:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) But the focus of this is on the entire story... it isn't just about a qualification for something next season. That happens all the time everywhere anyway, doesn't it? :) That's just a bonus. It's more about them rising from nowhere and being the subject of reports outside their own country. You've also added another contradiction to the tale - so teams from eastern Europe don't do well in the CL at all? Why that would make this all the more immense - this team has come from nowhere in three years and beaten a team who achieved something remarkable themselves at their own game? OK, they drew but they still won overall if you know what I mean. It's about the achievement at ITN, isn't it, not the score? You've just increased my support further if anything. :) --candlewicke 19:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The argument was already in its favour before I mentioned FC Steaua Bucureşti, that was just something extra. Is it wise to compare English and Romanian football? --candlewicke 19:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Football back in the 1980s was a very different proposition. For starters the whole competition was a knockout system which small team had a better chance of getting through to the next round. Also, back then only the league champions qualified so there were less 'hard' teams to play. Today the top 3/4 teams from Italy, Spain and England as well as top 2/3 teams from Germany anf France qualify making the tournament much more competitive. If you Compare the route that Steaua took from the last 16 to the final there opposition were Budapest Honvéd FC, Kuusysi, Anderlecht and Barcelona. Compare that to Barcelona this year Lyon, Bayern Munich, Chelsea and Manchester United. Also back in the 80s the Eastern European teams were bankrolled by Communist regimes. All the prefixes such as CSKA (Army), Dinamo (secret police), Locomotiv (railways) etc defines who they were linked to and that is why these clubs were able to compete with the big powers. When communism collapsed the teams lost their funding streams and slipped out of the limelight. Hence Steaua today is absolutely no match for the Steaua of 20 years. Admitedlly some sides are returning particularly in Russia and Ukraine, but again this is only because of big money backers (particularly from oil). You are taking these things as things to support your argument but in reality they highlight how much football in places like Romania has deteriated since the collapse of communism, which explains how it is possible for smaller clubs to compete in these leagues --Daviessimo (talk) 20:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, not my type of ITN. And neither are any of the current proposed football-related stories. --Tone 19:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Welcome back! :) Can that be clarified? It suggests an oppose but it seems more like an additional voice saying that it is unwilling to comment on the subject due to lack of knowledge or interest? --candlewicke 20:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm disgusted. --TouLouse (talk) 20:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
What? I'm puzzled. --candlewicke 20:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Me too. I thought we were having a constructive (well partly) argument. Or maybe its Tone's fault --Daviessimo (talk) 20:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
"Also back in the 80s the Eastern European teams were bankrolled by Communist regimes". Is that disgusting? Can we stick to today then? Why are we connecting a win to the Communists? And is Communism a bad thing in the realm of neutral Wikipedia? Are there any sources to suggest all this is true as it seems fairly upsetting and controversial... --candlewicke 20:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Plenty. I've just read a great book called Football Against the Enemy, which devotes are large section to the political manipulation of football in Eastern Europe. In fact if you read the Steaua article it has a section on the controversies surrounding their success in the 80s. What I was highlighting was that beating Steaua post-communism is not as it would have been during communism.--Daviessimo (talk) 20:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I have just nominated this news because I think it's very good example of great success based by work (excluding financial power) in this MODERN TIMES. That's all! Thank You Tone for your interest.TouLouse (talk) 20:27, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not a big fan of sport statistics. I wouldn't even support adding that Slovenia has qualified for the FIFA World c'ship in 2002, being the smallest country up to then or Trinidad for 2006, even a smaller country. Besides, Monaco has not significantly higher population but is on the top of French league. No prejudices against Romanian football, though. --Tone 20:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Bringing in the Communists has meant straying from the point at hand. I'm not sure it's fair to automatically associate Communism with Romania when a non-political Romanian ITN is nominated. This is a separate team, separate competition and this is twenty-three years later so if there are further comments it would be best to stick to the point and the present day. I would also say that Monaco also has a Grand Prix and an annual ITN so very difficult to compare Romania with Monaco. Monaco has money and, if TouLouse is correct, this team don't if it must be put bluntly. It is easy to do well with money, not so without. --candlewicke 20:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
It wasn't me who raised the topic of Steaua winning the European Cup back in '86 though. Thats the only reason I mentioned communism because the two can't be seperated. I still feel that undue weight is being placed on the significance of this achievement particarly in comparison to other firsts. The exploits of Club Atlético Tigre last season could also be argued to be highly notable - They weren't promoted till 2007 yet finished second in 2009 ahead of teams like River Plate and Racing, but to argue that would in my opinion be POV. I'm not attempting to detract from their achievement but all Unirea Urziceni have done is win the Romanian championship for the first time in their history, which is no more notable than what Wolfsburg have done in Germany. How they achieved it, is in my opinion, irrelevant --Daviessimo (talk) 21:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Finishing second is not winning - we could hardly post that somebody finished second. And Wolfsburg have been in the Bundesliga for about two decades, or am I wrong? I don't see the comparison with this season in the Romanian league. --candlewicke 21:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Since 1997 I think. What I'm saying is that winning is winning and to say that Unirea Urziceni's is more notable because they've been in the top flight less time is an opinion. The only fact is that they are both first time winners --Daviessimo (talk) 21:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
It is also a fact that they did it in less time. --candlewicke 22:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
But to say that because they won it in less time it is more notable, is an opinion --Daviessimo (talk) 14:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Allow me to clarify my oppose. I had written, "Winners to the tournaments (not qualifications, regardless of firsts) are posted". To clarify, I mean that, only the actual win of the tournament should go up on ITN, not the act of qualification, IMO. SpencerT♦Nominate! 13:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

But it is a win... they've qualified for something else but they've won something first and foremost. And the win has received international coverage and the circumstances are unprecedented. --candlewicke 14:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
But where is the source for this being unprecedented? A quick google search shows up Changchun Yatai F.C., who were promoted to the top level of Chinese football in 2006, then winning the league in 2007 --Daviessimo (talk) 14:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
In a slightly different way you've also got the case of Houston Dynamo who won the MLS in their first year of existence --Daviessimo (talk) 14:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Candlewicke was kind enough to solicit my opinion on this topic, but not knowing anything about Romanian soccer, I would defer to the European media on this. If it's being played up in Europe as much as George Mason Patriots making the 2006 NCAA Final Four was in the US, then I can see its inclusion on ITN. If it's primarily a local Romanian story that's being reported as nothing more than an average sports story in other European countries, than I don't think it belongs on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow. WTF. This was a complete waste of time, effort, bandwidth and resources. Next time, if you feel that a blurb hasn't have a snowball chance in hell of succeeding, don't nominate it. It save us people a lot of time which would've been used on improving articles and such. –Howard the Duck 03:07, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Words and phrases like "WTF", "complete waste of time, effort...", "hasn't have a snowball chance in hell of succeeding" and "save us people a lot of time" are not very encouraging to people who are only trying to help. I've seen far worse nominations than this. And actually this one came quite close to being posted at one point. Thank you to the nominator, I'm sure Howard doesn't really mean to dislike your work. --candlewicke 23:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Rose Francine Rogombé

Acting head of state announced in Gabon. --candlewicke 15:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Rose Francine Rogombé is appointed Interim President of Gabon, following the death of previous President, Omar Bongo. It knocks the bit about his death off the bottom as well. :) --candlewicke 15:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Car bomb in Iraq

A car bomb exploded in a crowded market in a town of Bathaa in the southern Iraqi province of Dhiqar, killing up to 35 persons and injuring dozens of others.

This terrorist attack is also much bigger in scale to the one in Pakistan so it should either replace it or be added along.--Avala (talk) 12:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

sorry but iraq bombs only get considered if there is something special about them. They happen way too often :( we disregarded a mosque bombing in pakistan just last week for similar reason Ashishg55 (talk) 12:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
See 23 April incidents. Those were much worse and were described as Iraq's worst of the year so if anything on that scale happens it might get posted. 35 bodies only seems mildly above average when compared to 76 deaths (including 46 Iranian pilgrims) and 100+ injuries. --candlewicke 14:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand, if the bombing in Pakistan was disregarded the last week why is another bombing included this week? I still think that the Iraq bomb should be included. If there was a Wikipedia rule saying how many deaths are required for the notability, I am sure you would have linked me to it, this way it's only your opinion that this attack is unimportant.--Avala (talk) 15:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, we can't post Iraq every day. Readers would then become immune even when examples like that above are posted... --candlewicke 15:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I would really like to see some official Wikipedia rules that are backing your position.--Avala (talk) 15:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There are no "official" rules as to what can or cant go up on ITN. It gets decided over here. You need to come over here at ITN/C to figure out the general consensus on what usually will not make it to main page. And no one is saying the attack is unimportant. but considering the frequency of blasts in iraq we usually dont put them up till its out of ordinary. Pakistan blast even though it had less deaths was on like a 5 star hotel and it was a planned attack according to reports (basically it wasnt a random attack on streets), thats why it went up. Ashishg55 (talk) 15:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes there are rules on notability and there is no Wikipedia rule which says that bombs on a 5 star hotel are more relevant and notable than car bombs or in the mosque. There are no random attacks as you claim, they are all planned. The car bomb requires planning too so this claim also fails.--Avala (talk) 15:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Does this event have its own article? ITN is not news first of all. So posting all bombs is not something that can be done anyways. I am just gonna quote from WP:ITNMP "Candidates for ITN are evaluated on two main grounds: the quality of the updated content and the significance of the developments described in the updated content". So if there are regular updates that can be made to an article related to the event and enough content to make it encyclopedic. then fine we will put it up. but bombs in cars just dont have that kind of info related to it except the headline itself. Ashishg55 (talk) 16:08, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I dont know, you ban one bombing, then you ban them all. But I support the oppose as they would clog up the front page. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 05:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The sad reality is that bombings of this sort are hardly uncommon in Iraq and are generally for that reason not of significant international interest. To some extent, this applies in Pakistan as well and I believe there's been a few which have been proposed and we ignored for that reason but it's not quite the Iraq situation yet and this one had unique characteristics. Bombings in many other parts of the world though are of greater significance, for example even one killing 5 people in Hong Kong, Paris, Durban, Havana, or Apia is likely to be of sufficient significance for ITN. Nil Einne (talk) 07:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Flight 447

French authorities have said two passengers on board Air France Flight 447 where linked to Islamic terrorism. ITN material? CargoK user talk 12:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

sounds like speculation to me. Just cause they were traveling doesnt mean they brought it down Ashishg55 (talk) 12:49, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Not for ITN. It would be embarrassing if it was misheard or exaggerated... --candlewicke 14:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Strong no. "linked to Islamic terrorism" can mean just about anything these days. What is newsworthy is that people are still trying to link this to terrorism, when every piece of evidence points to an accident. I guess that terrorists have got clever, that's what the neocons will tell us, even cleverer than the combined forces of three fairly important countries… Physchim62 (talk) 15:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I only half thought it was news material for here. I think we don't need any additional comment. It's dead and gone (the story). Thanks for your time! CargoK user talk 15:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for nominating. :) --candlewicke 15:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

June 9

ITN candidates for June 9

Bomb in Pakistan hotel

This is getting more serious by the hour... Journalists at the scene say they have seen several injured foreigners. 22 dead, at least 46 injured - current figures --candlewicke 19:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there an article or does one need creating? --Daviessimo (talk) 19:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Pearl Continental hotel bombing, if you would like to assist. :) --candlewicke 19:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
hmm ya this is big news. should go up Ashishg55 (talk) 19:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
How about: A bomb explodes at the Pearl Continental Hotel in Peshawar, Pakistan, killing at least 11. Thue | talk 20:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) There is enough now I think to unleash it to the masses who will oblige us by expanding it further I'm sure... At least 11 people are killed and at least 46 others are injured in a bomb blast at the Pearl Continental Hotel in Peshawar, Pakistan. --candlewicke 20:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Since the injured number will most likely fluctuate quite a bit i suggest. At least 11 people are killed and many more injured in a bomb blast at the Pearl Continental Hotel in Peshawar, Pakistan. or something similar to that. Ashishg55 (talk) 21:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
The dead may also fluctuate - we might as well have it that several died and several more were injured... --candlewicke 21:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
ya nvm, ppl will complain why its not showing a proper number then. Ashishg55 (talk) 21:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, well I guess this will be posted any day now... --candlewicke 01:35, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:42, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Could I request credit for this? I did a good amount of the updating. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, BQ. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Swine flu outbreak in American University in Cairo

The American University in Cairo has been quarantined after the detection of 2 students having the swine flu. This included the contamination of 140 students and the suspension of Classes until 14 June. I think this would be ITN worthy.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 00:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Quarantines have been too common in relation to the H1N1 for this to be notable enough. If anything like this was notable, I'd prefer the Ray Nagin quarantine. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
There've been plenty of H1N1 quarantine stories recently in Spain, especially around Madrid. 140 possible contaminations just doesn't cut it. Physchim62 (talk) 21:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

World Record Transfer Fee
  • It's been confirmed this morning that Kaka has moved to Real Madrid for a world record transfer fee of £56m. Football is the most popular global sport and this is one of the most notable records that can be broken in the sport --Daviessimo (talk) 07:03, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
The Kaká article currently states "an undisclosed fee believed to be £65 million". Please correct it and update the article accordingly. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I've removed that because it linked to an article that gave no figure. All sources are unanimous that the fee is a world record but some are stating its is £56m and others £59m. I'll update the Kaka article with more info but its going to be better to wait a couple of hours for a general media concensus on the actual fee --Daviessimo (talk) 07:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm on the balance about this. Yes, it is a world record but even The Dark Knight probably earned more in its opening weekend. –Howard the Duck 07:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
ya but that doesnt necessarily mean this shouldnt go up. maybe we should have put Dark Knight up too lol. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
To be honest I'm thinking it might be best to leave this anyway. The problem is that because when Zidane moved back in 2001, the euro had only been around for two years and was still highly unstable. This meant that in comparison to the USD and Pound Sterling it was relatively poorly valued. Over the years the Euro has strengthened, particularly against the pound, which has left a very odd situation were this transfer is worth more when valued by the pound, but is actually worth less when valued against the euro. To put in another way the value of the Euro against the pound has risen by about 20% from about 0.70 £/euro to about 0.86 £/euro today, meaning that the number of euros to a pound has fallen. Anyway to cut this story short we put this item up and you have one of two possabilities
(1) You say its a world record and people complain saying its not a record when measured by the euro, due to an appreciation in the value of the euro over the last eight years
(2) You say it is a record in £, but then get a load of complaints that its a biased story (because it makes out that the pound is more important than the euro)
Of course I could be wrong, but then again this is ITN and people always complain --Daviessimo (talk) 13:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
But when zidane moved wikipedia was not even around so its not like we dis-regarded that move. so people should really not complain since this will be first such ITN entry. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd say we'll wait if this gets substantial enough coverage. –Howard the Duck 14:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it bad for the support case to say I read it here first? Mind you, I haven't yet looked at the news today... --candlewicke 14:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
This was a result of a long buildup, though. An Italian radio station first broke the news then they recanted then negotiations were then scrutinized until they finally announced the result today. –Howard the Duck 14:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Both transfers were conducted in Euros, therefore a direct comparison of the two transfer fees is possible in that currency. The fact that the relative values of sterling and the Euro have changed in the meantime does not affect the result of these transfers on the size of the payment made, and therefore Zidane's remains the higher transfer fee. As an aside, I would reject the suggestion that the Euro was inherently unstable even when it was new: it had been tied to the DM for some years previously, and that was scarcely a lightweight currency. Kevin McE (talk) 17:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it even the largest? I have heard twice now on different news bulletins that it is at most the second largest... is this true? --candlewicke 17:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
According to the BBC, it's a world record in pounds sterling. But the transaction involved countries using the Euro so in short, this response doesn't help (LOL). –Howard the Duck 17:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought I had just explained that. If you choose to compare frankly irrelevant sterling equivalents to the transfer fees negotiated and settled in Euro, today's is the largest, but if you compare the amounts in Euro, which is what both clubs involved will do, it is about 15% less than Zidane's. Kevin McE (talk) 18:03, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Most sources are actually putting the transfer fee for Kaka at £59m or €68m. I don't see how you can assert that valuing the transfer in Pounds is irrelevant. Prior to the common currency the global measure for transfers would have been pounds and it remains the only currency that can provide accurately comparable figures for the last 100 years. --Daviessimo (talk) 18:12, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Why use the BBC then? Use a public broadcaster in the eurozone... --candlewicke 18:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not going to propose the deletion of those articles and tables that compare transfers in sterling, although why sterling is considered more valid than the franc, mark lira or peseta for the pre-unification era is unclear. But there obviously is a currency to accurately compare transfers between clubs in the Eurozone in the last 8 years, and that is what is relevant for these two transfers. It seems ridiculous to post this as the world's biggest transfer, when Real Madrid's books will show that it's not even a club record. Kevin McE (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
why are we taking currency exchange/inflation in consideration to begin with. If the news source suggests that its the largest then its the largest. We should not be converting by ourselves. Just to take example i know we dont posts record box office for movies but lets assume for a second that we do. Then if u look at box office figures from 70s or 40s and add the inflation value then u would never post any movie ever again. Now the argument should really be do we wanna post a player movement. since there is no guarantee there might be another one equally large next week. Ashishg55 (talk) 20:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Royal Dutch Shell
I've updated the Ken Saro-Wiwa article a bit, not sure if that is enough though --Daviessimo (talk) 08:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Support when ready. --candlewicke 14:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your help. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't think this should have gone up. They didn't admit liability, and the money amount is not that great. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's just about the amount of money though... the case was settled and as a case it does have a fair bit of international recognition... --candlewicke 23:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Indian protests in Australia

The protests have been going on there for a while, I think. [38] Perhaps notable enough for ITN since the series of attacks caused a stir even in the Indian subcontinent. According to this BBC article, "The issue has attracted prominent media coverage in India - prompting the Indian government to convey its concern in high-level meetings with Australian officials." --BorgQueen (talk) 16:17, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

It is notable, but the problem is that there is still a great deal of speculation relating to what is going on. The protesters claim they're racially motivated, yet the police say they're not. If we put it would need to be very carefully written to avoid a POV push --Daviessimo (talk) 16:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. We already have 2009 attacks on Indian students in Australia. Could anyone suggest a well-worded NPOV blurb? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
"Indian students stage protests in Melbourne and Sydney against the recent attacks on Indians in Australia." ? Not mentioning 'racism' anywhere in the blurb. —Amplitude101 (talk) 17:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. If there are no objections, I am going to post soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
OK. --candlewicke 17:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Clearer wording: ":::"Indian students stage protests in Melbourne and Sydney against the recent attacks on Indians in Australia." --candlewicke 17:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Guess what, this item is up for deletion now. I hope we won't suddenly see a redlink on Main Page. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
We won't if the nominations keep coming... it's already third!!! :) The same won't be said for the archive though... sigh... --candlewicke 15:08, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

;2009 Stanley Cup Finals Note -- only if the Red Wings win. Suggested blurb:

Only a summary is its hindrance since it's listed at WP:ITNR. And we can add the photo of the winner of the Playoffs MVP if he has one. –Howard the Duck 17:09, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Pens win so the final game of the Finals on 12 June will be the clincher. –Howard the Duck 02:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

June 8

ITN candidates for June 8


Relatives of victims of the Omagh bombing win more than £1.6m in damages after a judge finds four men liable for the attack. Omagh was a big event here in Ireland. It was by the IRA, 15 August 1998. CargoK user talk 17:08, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Adding further to the case: "The attack was described by the BBC as "Northern Ireland's worst single terrorist atrocity" and by British Prime Minister Tony Blair as an "appalling act of savagery and evil"." The dead were from all backgrounds as well and some were from the Republic of Ireland and even Spain. Some were children (and unborn twins) but I suppose that doesn't have any real value here. --candlewicke 17:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The update is too short. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Four sentences + bit in lede enough? Don't want to spoil a near GA. Four people and the Real IRA are charged with the 1998 Omagh bombing in a landmark damages case in Belfast, Northern Ireland. --candlewicke 20:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I do not deem it notable enough on an international scale. Jolly Ω Janner 21:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
But people from several nationalities were caught up in it... the injured (100s) would have been more... it was the high point of a campaign/war/whatever it is that had great international attention and a turning point in the Northern Ireland peace process... I'm sure the event must be remembered in some way internationally... --candlewicke 21:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I also note that at least two of the men involved have their own articles... --candlewicke 21:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted.--BorgQueen (talk) 01:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Danish Act of Succession referendum, 2009

Is anyone willing to update Danish Act of Succession referendum, 2009? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Denmark, the Faroe Islands and Greenland vote in favour of abolishing male-preference primogeniture in their Act of Succession referendum. --candlewicke 18:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:03, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

EC election
Hi Chuck. This result is only for the UK. Not for the other 26 member countries. CargoK user talk 09:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The turnout figure is certainly EU wide: in the UK it was only 34%, but to avoid confusion the word Conservative should be avoided, as it is the name of a UK party, but this party is not part of the largest grouping. possibly Parties of the centre right gain in Europe's parliamentary election according to exit polls with the voter turnout at a record low of 43 percent, although even that is only correct in some countries. Kevin McE (talk) 10:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
As was dicussed on the BBC last night, the low turnout was probably caused by the dismisal of postal ballots this year and by adding it on the Main Page, we make it seem as though there is a trend for people to vote less in EU elections, which may or may not be true. Jolly Ω Janner 13:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
According to BBC it is a trend. BUT i dont think it is worth mentioning since its nothing new. Same trend can be seen all around the world really. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:09, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone going to put this up? By the time you get around to it, it won't be "in the news" any more. (talk) 15:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, we have other noms as well, especially the problematic President of Gabon, who can't seem to be able to make up his mind if he's dead or not... --candlewicke 16:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

OK. --candlewicke 16:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd have to say that seems a very inconsequential headline. All votes have been counted and the results have been collated. "Elections finish" could have been posted at 2100 UTC yesterday. Kevin McE (talk) 16:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Better now? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Not really: that party have 21 less MEPs than they had yesterday! That is largely because of a reduction in the number of seats, but they have a decrease from 36.1% of the parliament to 35.7%. The centre right was fairly generally successful, although many of that ilk are no longer aligned with EPP. There was a suggestion at 10:32 Kevin McE (talk) 17:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest a better alternative if you have any. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not going to accept "Parties of the centre right gain in Europe's parliamentary election according to exit polls with the voter turnout at a record low of 43 percent", since even you admitted that is only correct in some countries. Besides, Europe != European Union --BorgQueen (talk) 17:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Well I hope you are not content with leaving up something that is demonstrably untrue, even if that is the summary of someone at the portal. How about Parties of the centre right gain in the Europe Union's parliamentary election, with the voter turnout at a record low of 43 percent? Kevin McE (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't want the current version to change. Of course the left made gains in some cases, but just like any election that happens. The European Parliament is one whole body, so it doesn't matter if one country (Greece and Sweden for example) were an exemption. The general swing is definately to the centre-right as reported by all major news reports. Jolly Ω Janner 18:05, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
North Korea, again

Any support for Euna Lee and Laura Ling? They have been found guilty and sentenced to 12 years hard labour. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:50, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I have seen this at the top of Google news several times. Now that there is a sentence, this item should definitely appear on the front page. Shiplevelone (talk) 12:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Is anyone willing to create a separate article for this significant event? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I will do I small bit maybe. If someone else can help. By the way BorgQueen, I was the creator of the Mexico daycare ITN nomination on the 6/June. Thanks, CargoK user talk 13:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
What will I title it as? CargoK user talk 13:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone already has done. Click on the links. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:06, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Support (but will it be enough to unite the American and non-American "sympathizers"?) --candlewicke 14:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Is anyone willing to expand them? Currently they are too short to be put on MP. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Well technically they are Chinese-American tried in North Korea. Im assuming Chinese are also interested in the story. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
As 2009 imprisonment of US journalists by North Korea. --candlewicke 16:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Not to be picky here but the word "labor" in the headline should really be spelled "labour" to match the page it links to. thanks Ashishg55 (talk) 17:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Why does it have to match? It is a U.S.-related event. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The only reason i say that is because the article doesnt use labor at all. but its minor, just leave it. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:06, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Earlier nomination

Update: A total of 17 bodies have now been recovered from the Atlantic Ocean near the spot where an Air France jet crashed. CargoK user talk 10:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You'd find more bodies in Iraq or Somalia on a typical day... --candlewicke 16:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I would like to see it there, but I think it is changing too fast to really warrant being up there. If the black boxes are found, that I think would be worthy of posting.--Metallurgist (talk) 20:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

June 7

ITN candidates for June 7

  • I know that this isn't on INT/R but to have theatre be unrepresented in ITN would be an absolute travesty in my opinion. When they occur, I plan on nominating the Laurence Olivier Awards too, so I have no intention of making this Amerocentric. They are two are the highest awards for a very old and still very influential art form. I also know that the ITN will be clogged with so many other, arguably more important things. However, should we really let the ITN be nothing but politics? Therefore I nominate:
Billy Elliot and God of Carnage win Best Musical and Best Play, respectively, at the 63rd Tony Awards. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, it appears the Olivier Awards already finished in March. So I suppose I'll have to keep watch for them next year and nominate them then. [39] Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Why is it that the Academy Awards get a higher standing and are put up immediately while these are ignored? Article here describes Billy Elliot's sweep and including the joint win for best actor in a musical. Therequiembellishere (talk) 05:05, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Academy awards recognizes international films where as i believe Tony awards are strictly American theater. If anyone can show otherwise since my knowledge in matter maybe limited then we can discuss this further. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I admire your will to have theatre represented but the Laurence Olivier Awards are "the highest honour in British theatre and are considered to be the theatre industry equivalent of the BAFTA Awards for television and film... given for West End shows and other productions staged in London". Now if no other country were prepared to contest this and dismiss Broadway and the West End as the home of theatre that would probably be fine but I wonder if that would be the case? The BAFTAs are not included at ITN anyway because of their tendency to not be as international as the Oscars... is there an international awards ceremony for theatres from all countries? --candlewicke 14:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Theaters are meant to be local since you have to watch them live. It actually wouldnt make sense for an international award. Movies are a little different as they can be seen by anyone in the world instantly. But as Candlewicke said there are other big awards for theater that have not been included so if we include Tony in ITNR we will have to look at all the other ones too. Maybe next year there will be more theater in ITN? Ashishg55 (talk) 14:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Outstanding ITN from yesterday
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I was the original poster of it. Yes, I got a credit (hold on, no, I didn't)CargoK user talk 09:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


Influential radio director assassinated... --candlewicke 22:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I have to oppose this. There isn't an article to attach to this and the station isn't well-known outside of Somalia. It is also just more of the , unfortunately, commonplace turmoil of Somalia. I probably won't support any Somali items unless something truly significant happens in the country, such as the government's complete collapse, the autonomies declaring independence or the defeat of the rebels. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
One minor point with all due respect. It is easy to create an article - I do it all the time for ITN and elsewhere. --candlewicke 22:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Omar Bongo
  • Nominate the death of President Omar Bongo of Gabon, who has ruled the country since 1967. Scanlan (talk) 21:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Support... longest serving non-monarchy ruler in the world following Castro's retirement... --candlewicke 21:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Clear support. Physchim62 (talk) 21:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Omar Bongo (pictured), President of Gabon and the world's longest serving ruler, excluding monarchies, dies aged 73. --candlewicke 21:52, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. Agree with the above. CargoK user talk 22:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Omar Bongo (pictured), President of Gabon for the last 42 years, dies aged 73.
No weasel words ;) Physchim62 (talk) 22:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Rather than putting "42 years" or "longest serving ruler" (which is actually incorrect), I think that he is the long serving leader of a nation who is not a monarch. Therequiembellishere (talk) 22:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, I've updated, think it's ready now... --candlewicke 22:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure I want to include the link to List of longest ruling non-royal leaders of all time. The article needs rather major assistance/cleanup. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The link needn't be there, but the record should be mentioned. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
President Omar Bongo of Gabon, the longest-serving non-royal head of state, dies in Spain. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
(aged 73). --candlewicke 01:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Article here. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:08, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Removed (by someone else). Turns out Bongo may not have died after all. SpencerT♦Nominate! 23:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Europe concludes its most publicized election since it became a nation in 1993 as 19 nations go the polls on Europe's Super Sunday.(SMH) --Chuck Marean 09:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
As we said yesterday this was nominated back on 4 June (when it started) and results will go up once the results are in (Monday). Also last I checked Europe was not a nation but a supranational grouping of countries - Dumelow (talk) 09:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Also, I think you need to do more research on what the E.U. actually is. It is not a nation, it is a union of nations, who cooperate and work together across a range of social, political and economic matters. All 27 members are sovereign states, with their owns laws, parliaments, criminal justice systems etc etc. --Daviessimo (talk) 10:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Also, the EU doesn't mean all the countries of Europe, not even all the countries in Western Europe. Manxruler (talk) 12:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
This debate has gone on long enough. If you want to know exactly what the European Union is, visit the page and other related pages. That is the whole point of Wikipedia. This page is not for learning, it is for suggesting news stories to go to the Main Page. If anyone wants to debate the EU, do it on the talk page there, your own or use email or something. Thanks, CargoK user talk 12:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I read last night European Union, European Parliament and European Parliament election, 2009. As the above comments prove, the existance of the European Union is news in the U.S. and perhaps elsewhere. The results of the E.U. election is also news, but should not be treated as if people have already heard of the E.U. because the press has been reporting about the U.S. in the Middle East instead.--Chuck Marean 16:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
"the existance of the European Union is news in the U.S. [sic]"?? Oh my, that's absolutely hilarious. LOL --BorgQueen (talk) 16:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Chuck, I had always thought notion of US insularity was exaggerated for comedic effect: you are beginning to make me reconsider. Kevin McE (talk) 19:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
How many more times to I have to provide facts? There will be 736 different MEPs elected by today. The EU is completely different to the USA. There are not just two main parties. As well as six main European parties, each country has its own national parties. The amount of results would take up 5 Main Pages put together. (Just a small comment: How could the existence of the EU be news in the US. The US is always in talks with the EU. How could the EU be news?) CargoK user talk 16:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Something like: “Socialists win in the fourth public election of Europe’s parliament”. --Chuck Marean 17:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I would have thought the US would be pleased to be able to talk to Europe collectively rather than visiting us all individually since we're all so small over here... I would just love to see the reaction from the community and the media around the world if we posted: "The United States discovers the existence of the European Union after the country holds secret parliamentary elections". Tomorrow: "Australia, China, India and Japan admit knowledge of the previously unknown European Union as Cuba is added to the list of countries suspected of dealing with the nation". --candlewicke 17:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Ahhhhhhh! It's not Europe's Parliament. It is the parliament to discuss to what the EU does and how it is run. Chuck, please re-read those three articles. Myself, Candlewicke, Manxruler and BorgQueen aren't here to teach you about the EU. If you would like to discuss this issue, you can talk to me on my talk page. Can I stress again: This page is not for learning, it is for suggesting news stories to go to the Main Page. Thank you, CargoK user talk 17:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I'll re-read them, but they did mention there's a European military (since Clinton) and a European Space Agency.--Chuck Marean 18:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
What does that have to do with European Elections? Please consult the first line of Military of the European Union. Yes there is a space agency, although not a big or important as NASA. Can you post all other related comments on the EU on my talk page please Chuck. CargoK user talk 18:26, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
And, as I clearly stated earlier, there's a big difference between Europe and the European Union. It is not the same thing. Manxruler (talk) 21:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I have just been looking through comments from today and yesterday. Europe is a continent, not one country. CargoK user talk 21:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
A bit of a holder, but results should be known within a few hours. Physchim62 (talk) 18:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. Some mention of the elections would be good, as long as nothing from the content above this (Physchim62's) suggestion is mentioned. CargoK user talk 18:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, no more of this 27 countries unite to form the United States of Europe nonsense please... --candlewicke 18:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
To stop all this nonsense, can someone in Wikipedia start a book club. There people can discuss things like to topic above. They can stop wasting the space used here. This new United States of Europe has absolutely nothing to do with ITN. Thanks, CargoK user talk 19:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Wait We shouldn't be putting up placeholders: we refer to mature articles relevant to current events, and in the case of elections, that means results. However, even when the results are in, a headline might be difficult to frame. There is no victorious party leader, no government to form. The groupings that MEPs belong to have no high profile in the voting nations, and results tend to reflect the popularity, or lack of it, of the incumbent government in each member state. A substantial shift to left or right might be worth recording if it happens, but that seems unlikely. Kevin McE (talk) 19:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
What Kevin said. I have changed my mind. Oppose. (PS. The book club should be called renamed Wiki Knitting Corner) CargoK user talk 19:26, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought Wikipedia was the book club… The results so far (we're still missing Italy and the UK from the big nations) show a clear plurality for the centre-right groupings of parties. That is no more obscure than most of the election results we post. Physchim62 (talk) 21:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
The European People's Party win a pluarlity' in elections to the European Parliament. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Result here. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Difficult to attribute victory to a party that no-one voted directly for: the EPP were not on voting slips. EPP have retained a plurality, but with a 6% drop in their number of seats, but that is mainly because some parties have moved out of their grouping. Maybe Results in the European Parliament elections reflect a move towards the centre-right. Kevin McE (talk) 06:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Hmm, we have lots of waiting to do. Northern Ireland won't start counting until tomorrow, despite being the first country to start voting (on Thursday!). Typical Irish. Jolly Ω Janner 02:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Not at all. Ireland, Northern Ireland and (I believe) Scotland have all withheld results because it is the Sabbath. It means we wait, what, twelve hours? That's not a long time at all and not a terribly unreasonable reason to make people wait just a little bit longer. Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The whole Wiki Knitting Corner is to discuss things like this new United States of Europe, which Chuck kindly invented. I am seriously thinking about starting it so this page doesn't have to be wasted talking about rubbish. Does anyone support my action, and will anyone create the WikiKnittingCorner with me? CargoK user talk 14:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
You could always host it in your user space and move it over to WP space if it's successful. --candlewicke 17:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Candlewicke for the idea. The WikiKnittingCorner has started. All this gibberish can now go there. ITN/C now has a meaning again, not for learning. Please take a look and participate! CargoK user talk 19:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Venice Biennale
Maybe a potential WP:ITNR addition as well? Reported in Jakarta. "The Olympic games of the art world - 77 countries from Armenia to Venezuela are showcasing the work of their leading artists". --candlewicke 09:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I am leaning towards support. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
But we need to create a separate article for this year (just like Venice Film Festival's 66th Venice International Film Festival). --BorgQueen (talk) 17:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Shanghai is hosting its first ever gay pride
festival It's been a while since we've had a gay ITN... --candlewicke 08:41, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Also, for the benefit of those in the US, Shanghai "is the largest city in China in terms of population and one of the largest metropolitan areas in the world". Which article would this go into though? --candlewicke 09:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest you create the Shanghai version of Moscow Pride. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Ready? Shanghai hosts China's first gay pride event, the week-long Shanghai Pride. --candlewicke 09:52, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks ready to me... Do you think we should use the rainbow flag? --BorgQueen (talk) 10:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't see why not... --candlewicke 10:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok, meanwhile, I'd like comments from others as usual. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:40, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I can't say I find this particularly notable, as other non-posted events (firsts as well) often draw much, much larger crowds than this. Last time we posted some "events", we had World Youth Day 2008 (1/2 million turnout) or 2008 Summer Olympics torch relay (can't find exact turnout numbers, but still larger than 2000). I'm just saying setting the bar at 2,000 is very low for my preference. SpencerT♦Nominate! 17:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
By comparison, the Tea Party protests had "between 240,000 to 500,000" participants, and it would certainly would had never made it (or if it made it, it'll last less than 6 hours.) –Howard the Duck 17:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand - is it about how many might attend? And those are examples of firsts? "World Youth Day 2008 was a Catholic youth festival held from 15 to 20 July in Sydney, Australia. It is the twenty-third World Youth Day celebration and was attended by Pope Benedict XVI. The occasion marked the fourth Papal visit to the country, as well as Benedict XVI's first visit.[1]" The only first there is Benedict's visit. And as far as I'm aware there is always an Olympic torch relay... the Tea Party protests suggest national upset at a President/government - nothing new there. --candlewicke 17:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
If there are only 2,000 that attended does that mean that only a small amount of people cared enough to actually go there? –Howard the Duck 17:36, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
And is if its all about firsts then we should've retained the blurb about that first Puerto Rican lawyer to be nominated for something.... –Howard the Duck 17:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I dont think its fair to compare some Puerto Rican lawyer to a group that exists worldwide. Getting recognition in a large country is a decently sized step. What i dont know is why it got moved above French Open and we should really be using Federer's picture instead too. Considering thats more of a worldwide news. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I think the 2,000 figure being thrown around is for the party at the end. This figure includes people from within and without China. I think 2,000 gay people gathering in China is notable but I suppose you are welcome to disagree. It is still happening in a highly metropolitan city so plenty more may join in and if not it is still happening around them. This has nothing to do with the Puerto Rican nom. As it happens I would agree with that item but it was a Presidential nom and not a confirmation which was taking it much too far... the Tea Party protest is a bit too local however... --candlewicke 18:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Look, if there was a party at the end, there should be tons of people there! Unless they'd have to pay.
What's the purpose of having protests, anyway? To make the government revise its policies. If there are too few protesters the government will just ignore them. Does it matter if it's the first? Yes, but what matters more? Of course the number of people in the protest you'd actually ditch work or school to get free lunch at a party (LOL). Of course not all of those 2,000 people are gay, there must be heterosexual symphatizers in there so to say all of those 2,000 are gay are stretching it. –Howard the Duck 18:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Please read up on China's record on this matter. And why should they all be gay? The event itself is symbolic. I highly doubt they will hook everyone up to some sort of machine to determine their level of gayness and then shout a big statistical announcement with percentages and fractions from the rooftops. I wonder how they could even do this in theory. If there are "heterosexual sympathizers in there" it will not affect the integrity of the event. And how do you know that they are definitely not all gay? Has China discovered a method to reduce its numbers of gay people? It has a much higher population than the US so it would be fair to say that it has more gay people than that country too. Certainly there aren't less than 2,000 gay people in China unless something has gone wrong somewhere... --candlewicke 18:42, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if there are homosexuals, heterosexuals, hermaphrodites, bisexuals, transgenders, etc. There were only 2,000 participants. And if there are that few participants, I bet the government would ignore them. I say we re-add this item if the government has revised its policies. –Howard the Duck 11:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Note that this has generated significant enough opposition from Talk:Main Page and Template talk:In the news this has to be taken down for the meantime. –Howard the Duck 11:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Howard, that is completely not the case so please stop exaggerating. One member of the "significant enough opposition" aired their views (anonymously) by engaging in this unnecessary edit. I don't see how anybody has offered a legitimate reason for its removal, with typical reasons being along the lines of "just take it down so nobody gets offended" (WP:CENSOR) and it is not big enough (read the first sentence of Shanghai and research China's human rights record). This is an extreme case of POV pushing to remove an item which some may have cultural disagreements with but is significant nonetheless. --candlewicke 14:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
That's a gross oversimplification of the arguments presented on the discussion pages. There was considerable opposition on its "newsworthiness," "clear bias and not notable enough" and "not the most important thing in the news."
If we were to consider "China's human rights" record, they should've shot these protesters on the spot, and that would've merited sure inclusion. But a protest of about 2,000 people in a large city (which pretty much puts this into perspective -- there were millions of people in Shanghai and only 2,000 showed up?) isn't impressive. –Howard the Duck 14:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
It hasn't even happened yet(!). The figure is just a general number. This one party is being hosted privately at the end of the festival away from the spotlight of the authorities and it is by no means the entire event yet it is being used as a reason to oppose? --candlewicke 14:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Then isn't there an attendence estimate for the entire festival? Surely if this is major like other events there would be some estimate for attendees on a reliable news source. SpencerT♦Nominate! 15:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
That's why it's significant - there is no history of such an event in China and therefore no way of knowing. ITN isn't about predicting figures, it is about fact and the verifiable fact here is that this is the first gay pride event ever in the People's Republic of China. --candlewicke 18:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The Dalai Lama to be made an honorary citizen of Paris

The 14th Dalai Lama is to be made an honorary citizen of Paris today, drawing complaints from the Chinese government. [40] Does anyone think this event is notable enough? --BorgQueen (talk) 07:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Support. This is a world news event. CargoK user talk 10:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. As famous as the Dalai Lama is, this is the equivalent of being given Freedom of the City, which is hardly notable, even with the PRC's objections. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 15:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Note: The update is too short. –Howard the Duck 15:46, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Luxembourg general election
The Christian Social People's Party, led by Jean-Claude Juncker, win a plurality in parliamentary elections. [41] Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The article needs to be updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The article has been updated, time to post? Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Not yet. The article has no references!! --BorgQueen (talk) 02:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Danish referendum
  • Denmark will also hold a referendum (at the same time as the EU elections) on whether to eliminate male-preference primogeniture from their rules on succession to the throne and replace it with equal primogeniture. This may or may not be important enough to make ITN but it has a reasonable article at Danish Act of Succession referendum, 2009 (obviously a no vote will not really be notable, maintaining the status-quo) - Dumelow (talk) 14:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
A Danish referendum succeeds in allowing women to become heiress apparent. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Coming up with a nice tagline doesn't solve it; the article has to be properly updated. Also, the Kingdom of the Netherlands is not the Danish kingdom. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Lebanese general election
The (Western-backed) 14 March Alliance, led by Saad Hariri, wins a majority in parliamentary elections. [42] Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

  • French Open finals will happen on Sunday (almost guaranteed). ITNR item. Ashishg55 (talk) 19:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
For a change I propose we feature the women's champ photo instead of the male champ, even after the men's final. –Howard the Duck 17:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Support women. --candlewicke 19:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
dont they usually release one with both winners. but ya lets not chose between men or women either both or none. or put logo for rolland garros. Ashishg55 (talk) 15:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Logos discouraged. --candlewicke 22:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Save it for Wimbledon. Federer's career grand slam is a bigger headline. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 15:41, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
OK coming back to this event. Nadal lost and Federer is now in the final. I know we got our little template like message for these events where we say who won. but "IF (fingers crossed)" federer wins this final it will not be your normal grand slam final anymore. THis will be a defining moment in tennis history. I dont even think i need to explain why. So the blurb should really say federer wins his first french open and ties pete sampras for all time grand slam record. Ashishg55 (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
It'll suck with RF wins since we'd have to use his pic since his win is historical. LOL. –Howard the Duck 19:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's not forget Soderling... apparently being texted and watched by Björn Borg... --candlewicke 21:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
That works. His total GS wins only merits a mention when he breaks the record, not tying it per ITN's sport guidelines. --Madchester (talk) 15:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Might Kuznetsova have entered the top 24 of female title holders? Apparently that is noteworthy in sports. Kevin McE (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Added to ITN. Feel free to correct me if I forgot a step in adding the ITN headline; haven't done so in some time. --Madchester (talk) 16:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

i like how this is in something else. ya this is not ITN material, sorry. Ashishg55 (talk) 04:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I googled "annual congress" and FIFA's was the first thing I found... --candlewicke 08:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Or how about the Annual Congress of the European Accounting Association, a major event that takes place in a different country during springtime each year... sounds bigger than this as well... --candlewicke 08:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Not really newsworthy. They'd have to hold their annual congress at one of the Langrangian points for it to really ITN material, IMHO. Physchim62 (talk) 10:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

June 6

ITN candidates for June 6

Massacres and kidnappings in Peru

Check out Peru where all hell has broken loose (nominated below but alerted to here in the hope that it is more easily noticed). At least 52 people are killed and at least 155 people are injured in clashes between security forces and indigenous tribes (example pictured) near Bagua in Peru. --candlewicke 02:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Note: This will knock the 2009 Harmony Gold mine deaths off ITN but check WP:ERRORS as the death toll has risen and it should be moved up. --candlewicke 02:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
South Africa has disappeared but it is ongoing... --candlewicke 03:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Déjà vu! We've had this discussion before.. Would you like me to restore the swine flu item? --BorgQueen (talk) 03:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand? This didn't happen during the Victorian bushfires... I thought the origin of ITN was to allow events that were ongoing to be updated... --candlewicke 08:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Swine flu is still ongoing, right? –Howard the Duck 11:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought everybody had forgotten about that at this stage... is anybody even dying anymore? Anytime I hear it mentioned it is usually some sort of overhyped sensational reporting, what I meant was events like bushfires, floods and mine deaths which will draw to a close over a few days but whose death tolls are still rising... --candlewicke 15:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
It's still "in the news" since there has been several new cases in other countries. Australia had a spike from 147 confirmed cases in May 28 to 401 in June 1 and a more than 1,000 in June 5. Chile had became the fourth country to register a death, followed by Costa Rica and the Dominican Republic. –Howard the Duck 17:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Floating wind turbine
While we're waiting for the European Parliament results! Physchim62 (talk) 20:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Well can we find something to put in. That picture of the Former President of Madagascar is really annoying me. ITN has been updated for nearly two days. Any of these subjects are worthy candidates. The EU elections though, are a bit late to go in. They have been going on since Thursday and are over tomorrow. On Monday morning we could put in The members of the European Parliament have been elected Europe-wide. (Or something along the lines of that!) CargoK user talk 21:35, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Had the photographic discoveries gone unopposed we would have had a new ITN, a new photo and less complaints about "forgetting" to have D-Day on the Main Page... of course we would then have to deal with all the complaints about having Hitler's face on the Main Page instead. But that's the coin and it has two sides... --candlewicke 22:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
The answer to all our problems. Mention this article and use this photo [43]. So therefore I Support. CargoK user talk 22:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
But, that said, ITNs don't get posted because there appears to be a shortage or because we need to get rid of the old image... --candlewicke 01:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Second thoughts. Can the article be expanded a bit more? --BorgQueen (talk) 05:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, article expanded more at Floating wind turbine#Hywind. SpencerT♦Nominate! 17:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

EU election in Italy
See June 4 (when the European elections started). Consensus is to put it up when the first results start coming out (Sunday evening) - Dumelow (talk) 10:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Giving the results of the election makes sense. The article I read about the Premier of Italy was the first I ever heard of there being a EU. I also listed it in current events and updated the article about Silvio Berlusconi --Chuck Marean 16:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. There are 27 countries who will be giving their results by Sunday. The EU has been around since 18 April 1951. If anything, only say the elections are taking place. CargoK user talk 16:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I never heard of it before. That's why I thought it would be good for June 6 to report that Europe has a Parliment. If the European Union isn't something very new, I wonder why I wasn't taught about it in school, and why the Berlin Wall was there until Reagan.--Chuck Marean 17:18, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems lots of people are confused about the whole topic. The European Parliament is the parliament about what the European Union does and how it is run. Each member state has its own national parliament like every other country in the world. Can this debate end soon? CargoK user talk 18:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. Those who are not in the know may read Wikipedia's featured article on the topic for their homework. --candlewicke 19:04, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
And next week we can discuss the Politics of Tuvalu --Daviessimo (talk) 19:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Mauritania Elections

Mauritania elects a new president in the first elections since the military coup in 2008. Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz who led the coup is expected to win as the process has been boycotted by the opposition parties. (Reuters). Article at Mauritanian presidential election, 2009 - Dumelow (talk) 13:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC) This was postponed until 18 July, although all parties will now be taking part - Dumelow (talk) 09:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


What about the 31 dead children in the nursery? CargoK user talk 16:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, international coverage (UK and US included) and lots of bodies. I've ignored the fact that they're children as children are an illegal currency at ITN. --candlewicke 16:27, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. What's so great about lots of bodies? Someone was struck by lightning in San Diego a few days ago. That Europe has one parliment for all of Europe is news to me.-- (talk) 18:18, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
IMHO I'd support. 31 deaths for a fire is large anywere in the world. However, I fear it may end up getting a similar response on the Talk:Main Page to that of the Bulgarian bus crash, which eventually had to be removed --Daviessimo (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
What,, might I ask does Europe have to do with Mexico? Please consult an atlas quickly. Did the person in San Diego multiply into several dozen burnt bodies? --candlewicke 19:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of lightening strikes and air accidents... --candlewicke 20:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Air France Flight

Bodies and Wreckage found. This is a follow-up to what was already ITN. Would probably fit in nicely. CargoK user talk 18:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

That was days ago. I think it was seen in 300 feet of water by airplane or something. --Chuck Marean 18:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
May I correct myself. The bodies and wreckage were recovered. New news. CargoK user talk 18:33, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I just read the article. The map was interesting. It shows the plane was flying from South America to North Africa.-- (talk) 18:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
For your information, the plane was flying to Paris. If you actually read the article you would of seen where it was flying to. CargoK user talk 20:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
More bodies Sky News CargoK user talk 15:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

June 5

ITN candidates for June 5

Hitler photos

Never-before-seen photos of Adolf Hitler taken by personal photographer Hugo Jaeger revealed and Unseen photographs reveal the private life of Adolf Hitler. --candlewicke 02:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Leaning towards support... Perhaps you could create Hugo Jaeger? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I have begun and will finish tomorrow if I don't get it finished now. Wouldn't some of the photos be public domain well? This one is from 1938. --candlewicke 03:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
No, please see Wikipedia:Public_domain#German_World_War_II_images. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Any more support? I'd like comments from others before I post it. Having to remove an item soon after posting it is not something I wish to do on a regular basis. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:17, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Do I have a right to say I oppose? In my opinion it is more a wikinews story. It isn't really an important event like an assassination or a space shuttle launched. In most news websites it would be classified as a news feature. CargoK user talk 13:28, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, of course you do. Thanks for the comments. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:31, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I would however counter that by saying that first time discoveries or events such as this are often featured on ITN, that ITN (and indeed Wikipedia) is not a newspaper and items are not posted based upon their position in a newspaper, that 2000 new colour photographs of someone with one of the most recognisable names on the planet is certainly significant. And I can see calls for oppose or removal based upon the man himself but the usual WP:CENSOR ought to surely apply and if we're so afraid of him in the first place we might have to delete his article as well and that big, frightful photo in his infobox to save the kids from reliving their worst nightmares, etc, etc... DYK had breasts last month, there's no reason why ITN can't have Hitler this month... I don't know why people would logically call for its removal otherwise... the US ought to recognise the name, the UK and the rest of Europe ought to as well so there should be no cross-Atlantic rows of importance like with the Obama speech... also if people are going to call for removal they ought to come here in the first place when these nominations are being decided rather than give such inconvenience to BorgQueen afterwards... sometimes I wonder if they pick on ITN so much because they know there are so few people around... --candlewicke 16:23, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I tend to agree with you and I like the item, but the problem is that some of Jaeger's works have been released before in 2005, according to Spiegel Online. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I can nominate it for DYK if you prefer. A lot of the news sources are repeating the same story but I've managed to squeeze 1500 words out of it. Do you think it might make a better DYK? --candlewicke 18:22, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Yes, DYK would be a better place for it... Btw, is he dead or alive? Presuming he was at least 25 in 1935, he must have passed away decades ago. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I have read the link about World War II images but it does not seem to cover those taken by Herr Jaeger in the pre-war between 1936 and 1938... that is more than 70 years ago so that was why I was wondering... I do not know if he is still alive but if he was 25 in 1935 he would not yet be 100 so there is hope for him yet... --candlewicke 03:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

U.S. Economy
Good for him. Contrast Ireland - record high unemployment which if anything is much more notable. --candlewicke 20:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
We generally haven't put month-to-month economic news on ITN. That said, since the U.S. has 72 times the population of Ireland, an item of news in the U.S. is, in my mind, 72 times more notable than a similar item in Ireland. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I disagree. But therefore China and India both leave the US in the shade. I was using that to show that such items are regular news and that if Biden's rather ordinary announcement were posted it would look slightly ridiculous when other countries are announcing that they're experiencing record high levels of unemployment at the exact same time. --candlewicke 22:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Never mind, I don't want to get into it now. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Randy Johnson

Randy Johnson of the San Francisco Giants becomes the 24th pitcher in Major League Baseball history to record 300 wins.AP Showtime2009 (talk) 01:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Only 24th? Granted all-time pitching records are virtually impossible to break but still... –Howard the Duck 01:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Well then how about mentioning he is the second oldest to achieve the milestone? Showtime2009 (talk) 02:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid we'd only consider records if they are broken. Even if he was the oldest that won't cut it. He should be #1 in wins. –Howard the Duck 02:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Who?, most likely not popular outside the U.S. If he was the oldest or broke the record then fair enough. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 04:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
No one will ever touch the #1 in wins record due to changes in style of play, so it's kind of a dead issue. Anyway, I'll have to oppose as well, despite being a baseball fan and liking Randy Johnson. I'm against any records of any sport being posted on ITN (and this milestone isn't really notable outside of baseball fandom anyhow).--Boznia 04:26, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
it doesnt seem that notable in baseball either lol. 24th.... come on. such a random number. Ashishg55 (talk) 12:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
The cutoff wasn't entirely random: he was the 24th pitcher with 300 wins. –Howard the Duck 14:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how 24th with 300 is significant... I have a feeling that the majority of people here don't understand the language used or have never heard of this man, or even both (as is true in my case). If it is to have a hope of getting any support it would need to be explained in the most basic detail... --candlewicke 17:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
It appears that winning 300 games is a milestone. Only 2 pitchers had 400+ wins and 1 with 500+ wins. –Howard the Duck 19:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
This is possibly the most heavily layered achievement I've ever heard of... the 24th ever person to reach a level already surpassed by 3 people in one league... was it a slow news day in the baseball world? --candlewicke 20:30, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Lemme be clear: there are 24 pitchers with 300+ wins. Of those 24, 2 have 400+ wins, and of those 2, only 1 has 500+ wins. –Howard the Duck 06:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
300 wins, 3,000 strikeouts, 500 home runs, and 3,000 hits are considered important career milestone numbers in Major League Baseball. Only the best can reach these statistical levels. Baseball is a game that's obssessed with statistics, so reaching certain numbers are considered important in baseball fandom, but they don't really mean much outside of baseball, as I said above.--Boznia 20:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
This is exactly what I was talking about when I made my post on the discussion page called "Commenting on events from a position of ignorance." If you don't know who Randy Johnson is and don't know why 300 wins is such a milestone, you shouldn't knock the suggestion. There has been a tremendous amount of commentary about Johnson's achievement in the North American sports world because it is thought that given today's baseball strategies, he might be the last person ever to get to 300 wins. Let the people who are aware of the event's significance debate whether it merits inclusion on ITN. Otherwise, you should keep quiet. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Is that directed at Enlil Ninlil? It seemed a bit confrontational... considering the nomination is a bit vague on this achievement and its coverage... --candlewicke 23:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, it's true that people who nominate items should be more verbose about why they're important for the benefit of people who live in other countries and may not be familiar with the event. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
But ITN cant put item up on speculation that he "might" be the last one so lets put him up. The fact will still remain that he was 24th. which would just make ppl laugh really on inclusion. so even if u dont know the sport i think in this case u can argue that 24th is no big achievement any way u look at it. (and btw i do know the sport, im in canada) Ashishg55 (talk) 04:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Heck, Barry Bonds's #756 was alleged with U.S.-centrism, just as other U.S. items are, so dunno how would this get in. –Howard the Duck 06:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Baciro Dabó

Baciro Dabó is assassinated. This man (who has no article) was a candidate in the Guinea-Bissau June 28 presidential election. Dabó, who is the Minister of Internal Administration, was killed by a group of armed men in his own home. This seems pretty notable to me, especially as the election was called to replace a president who was assassinated. An article would obviously need to be created for him first which I will try to find time to do today - Dumelow (talk) 07:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

A good find. Support. The article looks good enough to me. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
It should hopefully displace the other Guinea-Bissau article from ITN (seems a bit much to have two articles on ITN for such a small country). I have moved Dabó to Dabo as all of the english language sources don't use the accent - Dumelow (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Gordon Brown

I am going to bring this up again. It looks like chaos. His cabinet is dropping like dominos, as he reshuffles. After three councils counted he has lost 28 seats. CargoK user talk 09:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that we should probably wait until something big happens (such as a complete rout in the council or European elections, yet more ministerial resignations or that letter calling for his resignation by his own MPs to be sent, even then it might still be speculative to put anything on ITN about it). However I can think of some countries where four ministerial resignations and a government in such dire straits would result in calls for a ITN spot - maybe he should have made a speech about it with half a dozen words taken from the Koran? - Dumelow (talk) 09:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
There are six seven resignations now, possibly more to come. CargoK user talk 15:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Eight Cabinet ministers have resigned. EIGHT. And Labour have lost control of ALL of the Counties; and so far have lost 144 councillors. This is amazing. It's unprecendented for decades. This is really very notable. -- (talk) 16:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's wait and see if it goes to double figures by tonight... 10 resignations in this period of time might be worth a support... just for the extra figure... --candlewicke 17:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Small update: Labour down 211 councilours after 24 constituencies counted. Conservatives up 185. No change in resignations. Will update if necessary. Thanks CargoK user talk 18:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
ya this news item is getting more and more attention by the hour. Should post it soon. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Update 2: Labour -290. Conservatives +254. Labour looses all county councils it controls. Besides, Alan Sugar of the Apprentice has been drafted in to receive peerage. CargoK user talk 19:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I suppose when you look at the amount of shuffling it is like a brand new government with so many new faces... --candlewicke 20:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Can I take that as a support? Suggest a well-worded blurb please. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
The Cabinet changes shouldn't be included in the blurb. The reshuffle did have ten resignations, but it remains that it was nothing more than a reshuffle and the only major change was at the Home. Defence (which also changed) is a large post, but not considered a Great Office of State. If we had received the expected outcome with changes at the Home, the Treasury and possibly even Foreign and Justice in addition to Defence or maybe Brown's resignation as party leader and prime minister, I'd certainly support. Contrarily, this didn't happen so I oppose any inclusion of the reshuffle.
I'm on the fence about the local elections because while the Conservatives did have a massive gain (that altogether wasn't as massive as they thought it would be), the Liberals gained Bristol (but lost their only other council) and Labour lost all the remaining councils up for election...they were still just local elections. An indicator for the next parliamentary elections they may be but technically every by-election is an indicator and we certainly don't put all those up. While this was big, I'm just not sure. Also, does this mean we include the Irish elections? If it came to a blurb, I'd have to say something along the lines of: The Conservative opposition win all but four councils in local elections, with the governing Labours losing all their councils. Therequiembellishere (talk) 07:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Bomb exploded at a mosque in north-western Pakistan during Friday prayers, killing at least 38 people and wounding dozens more. Suicide bomber. CargoK user talk 18:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

sigh. i really dont want to oppose this but this is like 3rd one in past month. i know its a cruel thing to say but we can figure out a death count number that is acceptable for pakistan blasts. Ashishg55 (talk) 19:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I think I agree. A few more bodies needed. Is that the final death toll? --candlewicke 20:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Peru clashes

At least 31 (22 civilians and nine police) are killed by clashes between indigenous people and security forces in Peru. The deaths occurred as the authorities tried to break up a road blockade. Blockades have been instigated by the indigenous tribes for the past two months in protest against new laws which they say will make it easier for companies to exploit their land. Perhaps the death toll is not high enough (though it is high for what has been called a "peaceful campaign") but it is certainly worth considering and worth keeping an eye on for future developments. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 22:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Mmm... less bodies... this one I like though overall... --candlewicke 23:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

June 4