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February 28Edit

[Posted] Violent protests in BangladeshEdit

Article: Delwar Hossain Sayeedi (talk, history)
Blurb: At least 35 people die during protests across Bangladesh after Delwar Hossain Sayeedi is sentenced to death for war crimes.
Alternative blurb: ​At least 50 people die after the sentencing of Delwar Hossain Sayeedi marks the latest turn in ongoing protests across Bangladesh
News source(s): (NY Times), (Telegraph), (Guardian), (Washington Post)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Largest flare up of violence in Bangladesh in some time. Protest is likely to continue for days and have lasting repercussions. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:52, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Multiple Issues I could support this, but it has multiple major issues. The 22 deaths mentioned in the lead are not referenced in any updated article--the real headline here is Delwar Hossain Sayeedi sentenced to death. That article is very poorly written, often not in grammatical English. I'd attempt to improve the style, but given the rapid competing edits of partisans, I am unsure it would be unwasted effort. The article has a neutrality tag. That tag should probably be removed since there is no discussion or explanation of it at talk. Without the 22 deaths being referenced here or in another article I am loathe to invest the time. μηδείς (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose The focus should be on 2013 Shahbag protests rather than on the individual because the aims of the movement is far broader than merely protesting against the war crimes, the movement aims at reversing the increasing religious radicalisation of politics. The blurb also skews the news in favor of the convict, because the original protests started demanding death penalty for war criminals. Tehelka has dealt with the issue in detail [1]. Furthermore the 2013 Shahbag protests is unique in recent South Asian political history. I would like to propose an alternative blurb: Thousands protest in Bangladesh demanding death penalty for war criminals.LegalEagle (talk) 17:59, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The problem with the proposed altblurb is that the protests started Feb 5 and aren't "in the news" per se. The sentencing of Sayeedi and the resulting violence is what is in the news today. I have no problem with using 2013 Shahbag protests as the bolded target (avoiding the mess of Delwar Hossain Sayeedi would be good) and/or using a different blurb, but whatever is used the blurb must reflect current developments to the story . --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I fully agree with you on the proposed alt blurb and support it. However I do disagree that the protests are not in the news, unfortunately the mainstream media attention has been patchy (though a google news search bound by dates would give close to 600 news item from Feb 5). The protests have not captured the imagination of western media like Tahrir square did, but an independent objective evaluation/comparison (in terms of aims, number of protests, number of days etc.) would show that the 2013 Shahbag Protests can become a pivotal point in the history of Bangladesh and South Asia. -- LegalEagle (talk) 21:54, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment I would support the 2013 Shahbag protests if it had the minimum update for the current violence and met notability. I would also support Delwar Hossain Sayeedi upon execution if he had a leadership role in the military at that time. Sort of a prison camp guard vs prison camp commander debate. Yes, I realize there were no camps, but I'm just trying to get the point across. --IP98 (talk) 18:17, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: I have updated the death toll and proposed an altblurb that highlights 2013 Shahbag protests while maintaining the reason for the latest news. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support pending update alt blurb. --IP98 (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support alt blurb LegalEagle (talk) 21:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support the altblurb over the first one. But both articles still need major work. I went to the Shahbag article to see if it was ready, and found the lead an incomprehensible jumble. I tagged it and have suggested how to improve it on the talk page. If someone with knowledge of the general issues can give the a better division into sections I will be happy to address other issues like grammar, etc. As it is now I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to start. μηδείς (talk) 22:06, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
updated the lead section of the protest article.LegalEagle (talk) 16:48, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
I have moved the article to 2013 Bangladesh protests to reflect their wider scope. This still needs lots of work, but it should go up. Question do the non-bold links in a nomination have to meet the same standards as the main link? μηδείς (talk) 22:32, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Answer: no. Modest Genius talk 22:41, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, thanks be to God, because the Delwar article needs a man-week of work. μηδείς (talk) 22:51, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • At this point, I have gone through the article up to the lead sentence of the "International Crimes Tribunal (ICT) of 2010" section. The ITN nominator might like to show a little good faith support towards updating/cleaning/prepping his nomination at this point. μηδείς (talk) 01:40, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: I've added the recent events to the 2013 Bangladesh protests article. The relevant section is 2013 Bangladesh protests#Sentencing of Delwar Hossain Sayeedi and counter protests. I believe the altblurb is now ready for posting (death toll updated to 44).--ThaddeusB (talk) 04:10, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Good Faith Thaddeus seems to have made various good faith improvements to the article. But there are still various uncited references, and the entire article has not yet been reviewed. μηδείς (talk) 04:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
    • A perfect article is not the requirement for ITN posting. The article meets the requirements as is, and the update itself is well cited. Of course you are allowed/encouraged to make whatever improvements you see fit. --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:16, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Strong support: A very strong Yes! Go for it! --Tito Dutta (contact) 16:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Not Ready I strongly support getting this posted, and I and others have put a lot of work into it. But large portions of the article, especially from the ITC 2010 section down, are not in grammatical or even readable English. For example, "We take the oath that we will remain vocal both on the streets and online until politics of war criminal Jamaat-Shibir is not banned and nationality of their members not cancelled." This really needs to be addressed before posting. (One possibility is hiding sections until they are fixed.) I want this posted, but not as is. (Sorry about the accidental blanking on my last attempt at this edit.) μηδείς (talk) 19:37, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
    • I have hidden and deleted a lot of material, but I still haven't gotten up to the "Development of protests" section. Some help improving, deleting or hiding below that point would be good. μηδείς (talk) 22:27, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
      • Ready: Between μηδείς and my own efforts, a huge amount of unsourced and random crap has been removed from the article & everything has been copyedited. The article should now be good enough to post by any reasonable standard. --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:48, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
      • Ready --agreed, there are some citation needed tags but they are new and should be allowed to stand a bit. This is not perfect but it is quite ready. μηδείς (talk) 23:52, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Post Please there is support for this without opposition and a lot of work was put into bringing the article up to snuff. Can we either have this posted or an explanation why not? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 17:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Posted The Rambling Man (talk) 18:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment The blurb on the main page reads: In Bangladesh, widespread protests result in more than 50 deaths after Islamist politician Delwar Hossain Sayeedi is convicted of war crimes and sentenced to death. The article which it links to is the Shahbag Protests. In my opinion the blurb is misleading. The Shahbag protests are completely peaceful, it is the counter protests which are violent and have caused the deaths. I think the blurb needs a rework so that it reflects the news properly. LegalEagle (talk) 14:01, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I have created an article 2013 Bangladesh protests which tries to bring the different protest and counter protest movements under one article. I would request for this article on 2013 Bangladesh protests instead of 2013 Shahbag protests to be linked via ITN blurb. LegalEagle (talk) 18:20, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

[Closed] Catholic Church enters sede vacante periodEdit

Consensus not to post, as the announcement of his resignation was posted previously. SpencerT♦C 18:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Benedict XVI (talk, history)
Blurb: ​The Catholic Church enters the sede vacante period following the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI
News source(s): The Guardian New York Times

Article needs updating
 --Wüstenfuchs 17:46, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Strong support. An event unparalleled in the last 600 years. While Benedict's announced intention to resign was posted some weeks ago, the throne of St. Peter becoming empty (sede vacante) is a world historic event in its own right. This proposed item is about the situation after the resignation. Note: Not to be posted before 20:00 Central European Time Mocctur (talk) 17:55, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Support based on rarity, reader interest, and equivalency to head of state. Suggest the nominator get working on the update so this is ready at the appointed time. μηδείς (talk) 18:10, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Cmt: The Pope is a head of state, and is unique in being a subject of international law personally, a status held by noone else. What this means is that a state no longer has a head of state, the world's largest church no longer has a leader, and a unique subject of international law no longer has an officeholder. Mocctur (talk) 18:15, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I am very sympathetic to the supports and opposes here. The bottom line for me is that this is of huge reader interest, and that a vacant see with a live ex-pope is an even rarer event than the Chelyabinsk meteor. μηδείς (talk) 22:11, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment Oppose, the throne of St. Peter becoming empty is hardly an unparalleled event. It happens every time the Church has to pick a new pope, most recently in 2005. This update is basically "Benedict XVI officially steps down", when we've already posted his resignation. Resolute 18:17, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment I can't remember if we posted his resignation. If we did, then oppose this, if we didn't, then I support this as a suitable blurb could notify our readers of the significance of the first papal resignation in over 600 years. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:19, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Per IP98 below, I oppose the nomination based on the fact we don't need three updates for a papal handover. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:27, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose Death or abdication is irrelevant. We posted his resignation. We'll post again when there is white smoke. There is absolutely no reason to post incremental updates in the process. --IP98 (talk) 18:21, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Before Mocctur so inappropriately refactored my comment, I opposed this nomination on the basis that we had already posted the resignation. I still do, only moreso. Strong oppose.--WaltCip (talk) 18:38, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
    By "refactored", are you referring to the part where he was resolving an edit conflict? You posted in a section that he deleted just seconds before your comment went through. His reversion of your edit was a, no the, reasonable action to take and I see no reason to subtly accuse him of malintent. -- tariqabjotu 18:47, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support on rarity, but I dunno how you can write a ITN-size update without getting accused of WP:RECENTISM... and if it's even possible to write one when he basically rode a helicopter to his summer home to stay there once his apartment is up to standard. –HTD 19:12, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose Perhaps wait for the beginning of the Papal conclave, 2013, and use that as the main article? We already featured his resignation once already, so a bit silly to feature the exact same thing again. Thue (talk) 19:29, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Obvious Support How can this not be mentioned? This is the first time in 600 years that a Pope has resigned. Yes, we covered his resignation a few weeks ago. And yes, we will have a new Pope in a few weeks. For those who are opposing based upon that, consider how many articles we have about the Olympics every two years? But this is a MAJOR story line of more or less unprecedented level. I guarantee you that every major news outlet will have this on their main page. It doesn't matter if the site is US, British, German, French or what have you. None of those sites is thinking, "Gee we don't want to over cover this event, better bury it in section D." This is THE story of the day. About 1/5 of the world is Catholic, so it is far reaching. (talk) 19:38, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
For the record, each Olympics gets two items: the opening and closing ceremonies. Nothing more. Modest Genius talk 23:14, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Actually, the Olympics can get a few more blurbs: the ice hockey final is at ITNR, and some notable feats make it to ITN too. Then again, there had been 56 modern Olympic Games in the last 607 years, as compared 2 papal resignations... –HTD 15:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
    • I would, however, prefer a snipette that indicates the upcoming conclave. I think most people who are going to look into this are going to wonder "what's next?" How/When will the next pope be selected? (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2013 (UTC)Note, so as not to be mistaken for a different user, this is the same person that posted 4 minutes ago Guess my IP changes with every post. (talk) 19:44, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose Three step posting is not something I could envisage supporting for any succession, no matter how unusual. This is as much an inevitable consequence of the resignation as an inauguration is of a presidential election. Kevin McE (talk) 19:46, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose as per Kevin. --LukeSurl t c 19:54, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Actually, Neutral. Can't really see the harm and LGA makes a good point below. --LukeSurl t c 20:33, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose The announcement by the pope that he would retire was news enough. We don't need blow-by-blow updates. We are not a news organisation. Nothing to report until the new guy is announced. --RA (talk) 19:59, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support While I agree that we posted the announcement, I think we are missing the point here, it is the top news story around the world. There will be a large number of pepole coming to WP to find information on the process, to have no easy link from the main page is just silly and reflects poorly on us, this is a case that we invoke WP:IAR and post a link, maybe only for a day or so. LGA talkedits 20:06, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I think the point is, when we posted the abdication, it was obvious he was going to abdicate. And that a new pope would be chosen. Right now, nothing whatsoever has changed from that position. The pope has now resigned. We now wait for a new one. What is the significance (in addition to the original abdication) of today? In a few days we'll be posting "new pope" news, after all...... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:13, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
      • If we restrict Oscars and Olympics and various obscure sports to one post each every year, that is fine with me. Not having the no 1 news story of the year on the front page, an unprecedented case, is just ridiculous. As pointed out, no article will have more readers than Pope Benedict XVI today, and maybe even this year. Mocctur (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
        • We've already had the abdication on the main page. We'll have the election of the new pope there too. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
      • That few days may be as long as a month. There is no solid time frame. As for Rann's argument that this is no different than a president stepping down. Yes it is. First, the number of people impacted is significantly larger. Second, this is more or less unprecidented in modern history. Third, usually when a president steps down, the VP assumes the role as a result. Here it is unknown. This is THE biggest news story of the day---ever credible/reliable news source has decided to carry it on their main/front page because of how big it is. Nobody else is worried about the fact that it will be news again in a few weeks---do you have any doubt that when this year is over, this will be one of the 10 biggest news stories of the year? Possibly the biggest. As such, people are going to various pages to see what is going on. They come to WP for the same reason; but with the hope of getting a more neutral view than some of the main sites. I find it incredulous that it is even up for debate. [same IP as above regardless of how WP types it] (talk) 20:46, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Nah, the most incredible story was his resignation. We've done that. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose because there's no new news to report here. We had a post that said "Benedict would resign on February 28" There's no need to post a second time that says "Yup, just like we said he would, well, he did". When a new pope is elected by the conclave, then we'll have something new to report. --Jayron32 20:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Why on Earth would we post this? The fact that he resigned makes it inevitable there would be sede vacante. The only thing to post would be the new pope, and perhaps the start of the Conclave. Fgf10 (talk) 20:41, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. We posted the resignation, we will likely post the selection of Benedict's successor. We don't need to post this. 331dot (talk) 21:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Vehement oppose 331dot said it exactly, and so did Fgf10. We knew there would be a vacancy. There was a brief one after John Paul II died too. Did that not count as a sede vacante? I'm no expert on The Church. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:27, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
    Every papacy is followed by a period of sede vacante, as the papacy never moves to another pope automatically (like, say, a peerage might). GRAPPLE X 22:15, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment in addition to my oppose above: The resignation was a rare event, and yes, we posted that, but the sede vacante is far from being a rare event. --IP98 (talk) 21:40, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
When was the last sede vacante without a dead pope, 98? μηδείς (talk) 22:13, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
We posted the resignation; that was the notable aspect here. 331dot (talk) 22:16, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
The sede vacante is exactly the same as for previous popes, whether the pope resigned or dies makes no difference at all. Fgf10 (talk) 23:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Big news, yes, but only as recurring coverage of the exact same story we've already posted. We'll have a new pope soon enough to post, so it's not like we're leaving the issue alone. But this would just be a repost of the "Benedict abdicates" posting. GRAPPLE X 22:15, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Note - The ITN template has been updated with a related story, seemingly without discussion. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:28, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment I was about to say that too... strange it was done. (talk) 22:30, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I've removed it. I wasn't going to, but there was no good reason to let it stand. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:34, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I've commented at User talk:ProhibitOnions Modest Genius talk 23:12, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. We posted the announcement of his resignation, and we will certainly post the vote for his successor. Two listings in a few weeks is plenty, there's no need for a third one. Modest Genius talk 23:12, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Because the actual event here is the resignation of Pope (now Emeritus) Benedict, and we already covered that. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support - As it was covered by multiple news media. It's the first papal resignation in 598yrs, a rarity. GoodDay (talk) 01:48, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose - We already had a listing when Benedict resigned. This story would only be 'holding copy' for the press... some news to fill the blank pages pending the conclave deliberatation. Best wait until a new pope is elected, when we can rely on definitive copy. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 01:53, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment - He didn't resign until today. He merely announced his pending resignation on February 11. GoodDay (talk) 02:16, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Same difference. We don't need to post his impending resignation, then his actual resignation, then the start of the conclave, the deliberations of the conclave, the selection of the successor, the installation of the successor, etc. etc. Every step of the process is not an ITN worthy item. 331dot (talk) 02:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. No need for three updates for a new pope per The Rambling Man. We already posted his resignation. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:57, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose No need for another posting on this subject until the white smoke appears. Canuck89 (converse with me) 03:07, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment - It look's like the resignation story isn't going to be adopted. Sorry Benny 16, when you're out, you're out. GoodDay (talk) 03:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • We did post the resignation: here. If you felt it should have been posted now and not when the statement was made, you should have suggested doing so then(and some did, but not enough for consensus). 331dot (talk) 10:28, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose - It would have been better to post this than to post the anouncment. But we did post the announcement, and we are going to have to post when the new pope is elected. Taemyr (talk) 11:11, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 27Edit

[Posted] Janez JanšaEdit

Article: Janez Janša (talk, history)
Blurb: ​The government of Slovenia, led by Janez Janša, falls after receiving a no-confidence vote.
News source(s): [2]

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The government is down. This indicates there will be another head of state. We posted the similar situation in 2011 when Pahor's government got a vote of non-confidence. --Tone 08:11, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Support. A fall of a government due to a determination of corruption is notable. 331dot (talk) 08:58, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • OpposeNeutral The word "ousted" is loaded. The coalition fell apart his party lost a vote of non-confidence. This is actually pretty common in coalition governments. I don't know enough about the Slovenian system of government to know why this doesn't automatically trigger an election. --IP98 (talk) 12:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Well, BBC used that word, something better can probably be formulated. It should be stressed that the PM is the politician with most power in the country so this is a change of head of state (what we always post). There are two options now, either the formateur will form a new government or there will be an election, it's too early to say that at the moment. --Tone 12:42, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Search "ousted" here on WP and you get articles on coups and overthrows. This was a pretty routine political procedure. I would prefer something like "leaves office after a vote of non-confidence". We usually post elections, I don't know that we always post the change of a head of state. I'm not blind to the significance here, but it seems more like routine political horse-trading. Opposition: "You're corrupt. Step down!". PM: "Am not. Will not." Opposition: "Fine then, we quit. No confidence!". It's not like he was convicted, it's all allegations of corruption. --IP98 (talk) 13:01, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Changed to Neutral. The CPC is an official body. Even w/o a court, it's about as damning as it gets. Still think it's a pretty weak scandal, and that "ousted" needs to be dropped from the blurb. --IP98 (talk) 13:04, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Agree, we do not necessarily have to state the reason. --Tone 13:05, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support in principle, as a dramatic fall of a government. But the blurb could do with some work - maybe rephrase it as 'loses a vote of no confidence' to avoid the accusations? There should also be more than a one sentence update. Modest Genius talk 23:18, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Modified the blurb and expanded with some reactions. Marking ready (I can't post as I am the nominator). There's also a photo available. --Tone 07:15, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
I think such instances are notable and ITN-worthy (having nom'd three last week) but it seems others were in favour of waiting for the election (or perhaps a new PM)Lihaas (talk) 13:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

[Posted to RD] Stéphane Hessel (RD)Edit

Article: Stéphane Hessel (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): BBC

Article updated

Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: National hero; named "ambassador for life" for his diplomatic work; and, most notably, known for his internationally influential writings that are said to have sparked multiple protest movements. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:46, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Support - article seems in good shape, and explains notability well. Needs to be updated with some reaction to his death. LukeSurl t c 18:54, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support when updated I never heard of him before but his bio provides good detail on why he's notable enough to post. We just need that update. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:02, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support when updated I have also never heard of him, but the article is decent and he is certainly notable enough. --Jayron32 20:59, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose the article as written is hagiographic and hardly balanced, the opinion from the left seems to be he's one of ours. The list of organizations he belonged to reads like a parody. He seems to have been semi-notable as a member of the resistance. But I don't see any verifiable accomplishments or respect from those not deeply committed to his political agenda. μηδείς (talk) 21:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. Mainly as a result of reading the above votes. If his notabilty for posting is clear but a lot of people haven't heard him, that makes him ideal for RD, IMO. If the best argument against posting him is (transparently) "I'm not so keen on his style of politics", then I think that seals it. Formerip (talk) 01:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I have said no such thing and you know it, I have supported the nominations of plenty of people/things I am personally critical of. The point is, do we have two or three sources that are not his own partisans that speak to his actual accomplishments? That shouldn't be that difficult for someone so prominent. As for his being unheard of a factor in favor of posting, well, you so crazeh. μηδείς (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. Influential personnality during the last few years of his life. I don't like his political views, especially regarding Gaza, but the fact is, that his death is ITN/RD worthy. Hektor (talk) 08:51, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: A death section has been added and brought up to the minimum ITN update standards. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:32, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Not Ready The death section has a whole of one source for mutiple claims, and lacks a source for the twitter claim--I'll assume the date of death is correct although unsourced in this section. Two more sources, at least one for the twitter claim, will make this ready. μηδείς (talk) 00:09, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Your statement is inaccurate in multiple regards. First, there is no requirement for multiple sources in an update. Second, nothing is unsourced. There is no need to put a [1] after every line if they all use the same source - only direct quote "require" a cite. (Technically, there are no requirements but best practice is to always cite quotes.) In fact, I've been gripped at for putting the same incline on consecutive sentences. --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:00, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
      • Is the point that there is only one source for his death, or that the nomination is not worth the effort? Look at the death sections for Van Cliburn and C. Everett Koop when they were posted. Five full sentences with multiple sources and updates in the body as well. As it stands the sources all credited here to the BBC could be condensed into two sentences instead of five, and the nomination would not meet the criteria. Fixing that should be simple according to WP:RS, and you'd have my support even though I am skeptical on the grounds I have already noted. μηδείς (talk) 01:16, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
        • The point is that using two (or twenty) sources instead of one for the same information does not make the update better. Koop's death section consists of 6 sentences totaling 919 characters (and actually had less at time of posting). Hessel's consists of 8 sentences totaling 727 characters. The difference between the two updates is not substantial. (And no, it Heselle's update could not be condensed to two sentences any more than Koop's could.)
All that said, I will add a second source. Your 'is there only one source or something?' question was ridiculous and you know it. --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:33, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Edit warring to enforce your preferred citation style is very inappropriate. I would expect better from you.--ThaddeusB (talk) 01:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Ready Looks like someone actually did the work instead of arguing that the work had been done. μηδείς (talk) 02:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT♦C 05:35, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

[Posted to RD] Van Cliburn (RD)Edit

Article: Van Cliburn (talk, history)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): Fox, Reuters, NPR

Article updated

Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: This is breaking news, international sources will be available shortly. Fox says "Van Cliburn, the internationally celebrated pianist whose triumph at a 1958 Moscow competition helped thaw the Cold War and launched a spectacular career that made him the rare classical musician to enjoy rock star status, has died. He was 78."[3] μηδείς (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Support. Article is in good shape and explains why Cliburn is notable very well. SpencerT♦C 18:51, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support as per Spencer. --LukeSurl t c 18:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Updated This is now quite well updated, see the death and legacy section in addition to other added material and citations diff. μηδείς (talk) 18:59, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support Highly decorated, appears to be a major figure in his field – Muboshgu (talk) 19:03, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Support seems to fulfill both second and third criteria. A highly decorated pianist with major international impact. Article is sufficiently updated for RD mention. --hydrox (talk) 19:42, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Posted --Jayron32 21:01, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Leonid Khabarov has just been jailedEdit

Article: Leonid Khabarov (talk, history)
Blurb:  Leonid Khabarov, an alleged mastermind behind the new Russian revolution, has been jailed, despite nation-wide protest.
Alternative blurb: ​In Russia, Leonid Khabarov is convicted for an alleged role in a coup plot.
News source(s): Primary sources: RT, RIAN, Interfax, and Russian Legal Information Agency:

Nominator's comments: Events, which are happening right now with a Russian ROTC chief, whose coup d'état charges do not hold water, and the trial itself looks more like a political farce, as it was noted by the majority of political observers in Russia. -- (talk) 10:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Comment. This might potentially be notable, but the point of view needs to be watched carefully so we aren't trying to right a wrong. I also don't see any coverage of this outside of Russia yet, though that's not the only requirement. 331dot (talk) 11:12, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Note. RT and RIAN are state-owned media, so there're no reasons for them to try to "right a wrong." Interfax and RAPSI are surely non-government networks, so they should be watched carefully. -- (talk) 11:24, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I wasn't saying they were righting a wrong, I was saying we would be. 331dot (talk) 22:10, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • That blurb is very POV, I've suggested an alternative. Given the context of the nomination, and reading the Leonid_Khabarov#Backlash section, this needs serious attention from neutral editors before it can be considered for front page posting. --LukeSurl t c 12:38, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Thanks, your blurb looks purely neutral. -- (talk) 14:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • If he has been convicted, it is exceedingly POV to describe it as an alleged role. He has baan convicted of conspiracy to murder and to “create panic among the population.”
        • While I wouldn't go as far as the nominator, I'd be cautious about considering the verdicts of Russian courts in cases such as these as reliable sources of the actual facts. Its democracy index recently dropped from "hybrid" to "authoritarian", and its pretty apparent the courts are used as weapons for the powerful to attack each other. LukeSurl t c 19:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • OK. I think it would be best to find a wording that extended this ambiguity to whether such a plot ever existed. It's worth noting that the protests regarding this case is what is making it newsworthy. LukeSurl t c
    • Oppose for now. The Khabarov article needs to be cleaned up. I appreciate that not all editors are native English users, but that article really needs a sentence-by-sentence rewrite. The facts and sources all look good, but I don't think the prose is in a shape to be featured on the frontpage. (talk) 18:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment If we do run this, I feel the picture and/or the blurb should mention his former Colonel status for those unfamiliar. Running it with no picture would be better than the one currently used; although, I prefer File:Colonel Khabarov addressing the farewell speech.jpg. In regards to the article, I oppose pending a rewrite. Section headers like "“Massoud? Treat him like my best friend”" don't work. Did we publish the arrest? Ryan Vesey 19:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose purely on article quality grounds. This seems worthwhile to post based on notability, but the article is a complete mess as noted above. Too many problems with tone and referencing to list them all here. --Jayron32 21:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose due to quality. 331dot (talk) 22:10, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support pending greatly increased quality. I thought I understood what was going on when I read about his arest a ways back. After reading this article I have no idea what's going on from any side's viewpoint. μηδείς (talk) 22:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Update needed various simple factual claims in the lead remain unsourced. μηδείς (talk) 00:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

    February 26Edit

    Flexible batteryEdit

    Article: to be determined (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Research announce a flexible battery capable of being charged wirelessly and holding a charge when folded, twisted, or stretched.
    News source(s): UPI

    Article needs updating

    Nominator's comments: Seems like a major accomplishment with significant practical application - the inventors site internal medical devices; wearable and very portable computers come to mind. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose There is a continuous stream of technological innovation. It's a very high degree of WP:SPECULATION to say anything about the impact of this technology at this stage, when there seems not be even a proof of concept product, just an announcement from an academic research group. Time to market could be anything from months to years to decades to eternity. --hydrox (talk) 01:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose, for much the same reason as Hydrox. Might be a good entry for Did You Know. 331dot (talk) 02:10, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose as per Hydrox. --LukeSurl t c 09:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] 2013 Egypt hot air balloon crashEdit

    Article: 2013 Luxor hot air balloon crash (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Following an in-flight explosion, a hot air balloon crashes near Luxor, Egypt, killing 19 people.
    News source(s): [4], [5]

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: This is the deadliest hot air ballooning incident in aviation history. We posted a similar story a year ago. ----Bongwarrior (talk) 09:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support. As Bongwarrior says, "deadliest hot air ballooning incident in aviation history" (19 deaths, previously 13 in 1989 Alice Springs hot air balloon crash) - 220 of Borg 09:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per above. This is a rare type of disaster and the death toll is simply not comparable to the bunch of plane and car crashes that we usually post. Moreover, saying it's the deadliest ever induces excessive importance to the nomination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:21, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, per above, significant and one of the deadliest hot balloon crashes.Egeymi (talk) 10:38, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Futile oppose unless someone can point out any notability other than body count. --IP98 (talk) 11:36, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      It's simple. Can you point out to any other hot balloon crash that recently happened, apart from the numerous car and plane crashes that occur every day? You should take a broader look through the media that the news exhibits decent coverage and the fact it's the largest in history makes it surely notable.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:48, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      It's not so simple. Can you point out what impact this will have on the economy, politics, history or future of Egpyt, aviation, or tourism? Pure shock body count. --IP98 (talk) 12:01, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      Can you tell me what impact will have the fact that Jimmie Johnson won the Daytiona 500 and Danica Patrick became the first woman to achieve a top-10 finish?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:13, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      Notability in those cases doesn't come from body count. --IP98 (talk) 12:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      Nor it's the case here. Please check the whole discussion to see what are the other arguments that support this nomination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      IP98, I don't see a problem here. There is a mass-casulty event in the news, with widespread coverage (yes, partly due to the nationalities of the deceased). We have a developing article, which should hopefully soon be ready for the main page. This disaster will be part of the encylopedia in perpetuity, I can't see what we'd gain by not posting it in the In the News section when it is in the news. --LukeSurl t c 12:11, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      In fact, according to this BBC report, the last time an accident of this nature occurred (resulting in 16 injuries, no deaths), "Balloons were grounded for six months after that crash while safety measures were tightened and pilots were re-trained by Egypt's Civil Aviation Authority." so yes, there was a lasting impact. This crash is considerably worse, so I suspect the fallout will be accordingly serious. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:33, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      Thanks, that's actually pretty helpful. I knew my oppose was futile, but I wanted to see some other reasoning than corpse count. --IP98 (talk) 12:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. This is a rare and record-setting event. In this case, the actual body count is not as notable as the reason for it. It likely will also affect tourism in Egypt, on top of how the political turmoil there has already. 331dot (talk) 11:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support as per my comments above. --LukeSurl t c 12:11, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support I didn't even think you could fit 20 people into a hot air balloon. It's not every day you hear about hot air balloon crashes of any sort, except some idiot pereodically getting his/hers caught on a telephone pole or deciding to fly it in 20mph+ wind gusts and going on the ride of his life. -- Anc516(Champs!) (TalkContribs) 15:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per above; note, however, the article is not yet ready for posting. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:20, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment is it really true that this is the deadliest balloon crash in history? What about blimps? The fact that it was in Egypt and involved international tourists is consistent with INT requirements. Abductive (reasoning) 16:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • support - Sadly, this event had a significant record death toll. That by itself is a claim of notability. Michaelzeng7 (alt) (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Notable accident. Corrected: 19 fatalities, not 18, see sources. NickSt (talk) 19:12, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted -- tariqabjotu 22:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 25Edit

    Park Geun-hyeEdit

    Article: Park Geun-hye (talk, history)
    Blurb: Park Geun-hye is inaugurated as the first female president of Korea.
    Alternative blurb: ​The first female president of Korea is inaugurated. Park Geun-hye, the daughter of Park Chung-hee, is sworn in.
    News source(s): CNN

    Nominator's comments: Massive news in Korea, and amongst Korean communities abroad. Park Geun-hye is the first woman president of Korea. She is also the daughter of a former ruler, which I don't think happens often in that region. (Father -> son succession, yes, but not father -> daughter with some other rulers in between.) -- (talk) 05:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Question? Did we post the election? If not, I would support this one, if we did, I would be neutral, leaning weak support. This seems like an historic event if it hasn't been posted already, and the article is in pretty good shape, which is always a plus for putting something on the main page. Also, the blurb should not pipe-link "Korea" as though the entire Peninsula were one country and she were the actual leader of it. It should read and link to President of South Korea. --Jayron32 06:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose We ran the election in December: this is merely enacting the result of that. Kevin McE (talk) 06:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • (edit conflict)Strong Oppose we posted the election. (see here). LGA talkedits 07:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment it is in the news, though I agree that posting the election was sufficent. --IP98 (talk) 11:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose We generally don't post inaugurations, just the election. I have read that the inauguration is a formality and she automatically took office at midnight. 331dot (talk) 11:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose As stated by the others, we posted the election and generally do not post inaugurations. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    Cardinal Keith O'BrienEdit

    Article: Keith O'Brien (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Cardinal Keith O'Brien resigns as head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland amid allegations of improper conduct.
    Alternative blurb: ​Cardinal Keith O'Brien resigns as head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland.
    News source(s): BBC

    Nominator's comments: This has been big news here in the UK. Resonates with other stories regarding the church. Current update may or may not be sufficient. --LukeSurl t c 23:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose we wouldn't post this if he were arrested, we shouldn't post it without an arrest or criminal charge either. μηδείς (talk) 23:18, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. I think we would have posted this if he had been arrested. It's unprecedented for the Catholic church, given that he is a cardinal. Formerip (talk) 23:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • No comment on whether the story should be posted, but it surely is not unprecedented in the Church's 2000 year history for a Cardinal to resign. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    As I understand it they always resign by convention, but it seems to be unprecedented for one to resign for alleged misconduct. That's what it says in the New York Times, anyway. Formerip (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose He was already scheduled to retire in less than three weeks. This is primarily about avoiding press distraction during the conlave. Kevin McE (talk) 23:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose agree with Kevin McE looks like it is all to do with the conclave, would be open to consider a sticky for Papal conclave, 2013 between the 28th and the appearance of the white smoke (at which time it would be replaced by a full blurb on the new Pope anyway). LGA talkedits 00:20, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Agree with the reasons given above. 331dot (talk) 02:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment. According to a priest guesting on Newsnight last night, the cardinal was actually dismissed by the pope, he made it sound like this was a very rare event. Would have to find more sources for that though. Fgf10 (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      • CNN is reporting that O'Brien was not forced to step down or even asked; it was his own choice. 331dot (talk) 17:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
        • No it isn't. It reports that he had intended to resign on his 75th birthday (as is customary) "But Benedict decided to make the resignation effective immediately". Formerip (talk) 19:19, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
          • But that doesn't mean Benedict asked him to resign in the first place("Murphy-O'Connor said that it was O'Brien's decision to step down and that he had not been forced or asked to do so."; he only changed the date it goes into effect. 331dot (talk) 19:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
            • Every bishop is obliged to tender his resignation in time for it to be considered before his 75th birthday. The Pope will communicate that this is accepted (with very rare exceptions if he thinks the guy is irreplaceable) reasonably quickly (by Roman standards), but it does not become effective until that birthday. It had been routinely agreed that he would step down on 17 March, so it would have been a very contrary move to refuse to bring that forward by less than three weeks at the bishop's request. Kevin McE (talk) 20:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
              • He didn't request that it be brought forward. Allegations about his conduct appeared in the media. 23:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
                • After which he asked that it be brought forward... Kevin McE (talk) 23:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted to RD] C. Everett Koop (RD)Edit

    Article: C. Everett Koop (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination

    Article updated

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: So, he was Surgeon General of the US, but his influence on public health worldwide cannot be ignored. --Abductive (reasoning) 23:01, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Comment "For all the latest medical poop, call Surgeon General C. Everett Koop. Poo-poo-pa-doop." --IP98 (talk) 23:05, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Serious Comment The career section and "koop report" section needs an orange tag for lack of sources, then needs the orange tag resolved. The legacy section is pretty well sourced. --IP98 (talk) 23:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • (edit conflict), was just about to say exactly the same thing. --LukeSurl t c 23:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
        • In the obituaries which will be published there will information on his career. We should be able to use these to help cite the article. --LukeSurl t c 23:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - one of the most famous Dr.s of the last century. I came here specifically to nominate it myself. --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:41, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Not seeing the coverage outside of the US at this time, not going to make the mistake of opposing at this time as per Jerry Buss, but unless this does get covered outside the US (more than just wire republishing) then will be an oppose. LGA talkedits 23:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Reply This is from the "please do not's above", it's actually kind of rude, which I don't intend to be, but I'm just quoting as written: "Do not complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." --IP98 (talk) 00:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    No it is not, if, as contended this person had an "influence on public health worldwide" (see nomination) then I would expect such an influence to be reflected in worldwide coverage of his death, and an absence of such coverage, points to that not being the case. LGA talkedits 00:25, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    Further to that, there is a world of difference (no pun intended) to opposing an item because it relates to only one country as compared to to opposing because an event gets coverage only in one country, this is In The News and IMO for something to be listed, it should be in the news in more than one country. LGA talkedits 00:30, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Updated I am marking this updated--the death section was only two sentences when I checked but the expansions to other areas are of higher value than "his goofy beard will be missed" type comments. μηδείς (talk) 00:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Significant impact on public health, especially in anti-smoking and AIDS programs. 331dot (talk) 04:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Withholding support until cleanup. Clearly worthwhile for the RD ticker based on news coverage, but the article needs to have the orange-level tags cleaned up. --Jayron32 05:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • There weren't any tags when I described it as updated, so it's hard to know what cleanup is being requested. μηδείς (talk) 17:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Not seeing how this meets the criteria, he was not a high officer of state (POTUS, VPOTUS or Sec. of State), lack of coverage outside of the US indicates he was not regarded as top of his field. LGA talkedits 05:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      • The criteria does not state "a high officer of state", it says "a high-ranking office of power", in this case, the Surgeon General of the United States. 331dot (talk) 11:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
        • His influence in the field of public health was tremendous, a household name for starting a rational discussion of AIDS in the US, etc. μηδείς (talk) 17:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Koop was very well-known as a public figure (as the lead says, he was "the only surgeon general to become a household name"). His outspoken/controversial opinions and actions in the 1980s regarding AIDS and other public health concerns had major impact on the way these concerns were addressed in the U.S. -- and doubtless in the rest of the world. He established and gave his name to one of the earliest health-information websites. Frank Zappa wrote a song about him. --Orlady (talk) 14:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support (which I didn't bother to say before since I didn't expect any opposition) prominent in public health, very influential in early rational discussion of AIDS prevention (at a time when you got calls for tattoos and forcible quarantine from prominent public figures, or disgusting jokes at best) and began long successful campaign against smoking in the US, greatly raised the stature of his office. μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Ready I am marking this as ready, all current sections are well documented. The large career section has been commented out, since it is very detailed, but almost entirely lacking in sources. I don't see waiting two days more in the hope someone has the time to fix it when the rest is good to go. μηδείς (talk) 20:41, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Significant in his field, and a major newsmaker. I am not in love with the lack of sources in parts of the article, but think we should go for this RD entry now. Jusdafax 22:19, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    I have been adding references where needed and where asked for, and have hidden the long "career" section--which is so good I fear plagiarism--until it's referenced in full. μηδείς (talk) 22:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    Syrian peace talks offerEdit

    Article: Syrian civil war (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​President Bashar al-Assad's government offers to talk with rebels in hopes of a diplomatic solution to Syrian civil war.
    News source(s): Christian Science Monitor

    Article needs updating

    Nominator's comments: It appears that the recent bombings have fallen just short of making the mainpage, so the presents another opportunity to get Syria back on ITN. The first step, albeit a small one, towards ending the conflict seems worthy of mention to me. ThaddeusB (talk) 15:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose posting just an offer of talks; not significant unless there are actually talks which result in an agreement or cease-fire. Given the flurry of Syria events recently, it may be worth putting a sticky up again, though. 331dot (talk) 15:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose I would support posting a bombing, but not an offer the rebels could refuse. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait If the rebels actually agree to and begin the talks, I would support this as an important turning point. Even if the talks don't bring about a cease fire, just agreeing to meet means both sides are open to some kind of compromise. It would actually be infinately more relevant than a mindless car bombing with no associated attack, no claims of responsibility, and no newsworthiness other than a body count which is found by some people to be horrific. --IP98 (talk) 15:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Agree that we should wait to see if the rebels accept the offer. LukeSurl t c 20:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose per above. Michaelzeng7 (alt) (talk) 18:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] Italian electionEdit

    Article: Italian general election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​In the Italian general election, the centre-left alliance Italy. Common Good led by the Democratic Party wins a majority in the Chamber of Deputies while no alliance wins a majority in the Senate.
    News source(s): [6] [7] [8]

    Article updated

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

     --RJFF (talk) 14:37, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Article needs a lot of work: orange level headings in several sections, and it needs a prose update on the results. Support, of course, when those issues are fixed. --Jayron32 15:04, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support upon the fixing of the article problems and addition of a proper update. 331dot (talk) 15:13, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait Need to wait till the results all the results are in, we don't need to jump any gun on this. A number of sources are reporting this as too close to call. Also lacks a results update section. LGA talkedits 20:02, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Looks like the headline story here is that there's going to be gridlock between the two houses, with center-left in control of the lower house and Il Cavaliere winning the Senate. --hydrox (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • No. Neither party has won the senate. It is hung. --RJFF (talk) 07:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Changing "neither" to "no" in the altblurb, otherwise I think that's a good way of phrasing this. LukeSurl t c 10:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • This may be more of an indictment on the Italian political system than Wikipedia, but I have no idea what is going on in the Italian_general_election,_2013#Senate section… --LukeSurl t c 11:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      • The "Electoral System" section sort of explains whats going on, but it doesn't really help relate the data in the table to who will form the coalition. As best as I can tell, no one really "wins" an Italian election, but instead the strongest losers form a government. --IP98 (talk) 11:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait This should be held until a government is formed. μηδείς (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      • No. The election is ITN/R. The government formation isn't. --RJFF (talk) 20:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Fraud? --IP98 (talk) 21:48, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support the article is very thorough and in good shape. It's unfair to expect an article about a particular election to explain all the intricacies of the country's political system (as per some of the comments above). (talk) 18:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      No, but it should be explain enough for the casual reader to understand the results without first having to become an expert in the Italian political system. --IP98 (talk) 19:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
      I dunno, but as a casual reader looking for a quick read, all I need to know is who won the election, the manner of how they came up with the composition can be saved for an FA push later. Also, is "hung parliament" being used in local media? It looks more like a parliamentary version of a "divided government". It depends if the consent of the Senate is needed on most bills (like the US Senate); if it is, it is "hung", again depending if that term is used in local media, if it doesn't (like it can only delay like the House of Lords, or via a rarely-used constitutional provision like the Aussie Senate), then we should avoid using the term "hung", again depending if the local media uses that to describe the situation. –HTD 04:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    The vote percentages are visible in the infobox, and the very first sentence explicitly names the winners of the election. For people interested in the impact of the outcome, there's links in the Electoral System section detailing how seats are derived from votes and links to the various other Italian political institutions in the lede. Detailed analysis of the political system of Italy is outside the scope of the article, and I think would detract from it. In any case, the article is clearly ready to be posted. (talk) 07:02, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    No one really wants to read the intricacies of Italian electoral law, just how they arrived in those numbers. The article does explain how the seats are allocated: lower house = national district vote, upper house = regional vote, Aosta Valley = FPTP, etc. –HTD 10:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Article has improved considerably over the last few hours (good work). I think we need a quick "reaction/aftermath" section explaining the deadlock in prose and we're good to go. LukeSurl t c 08:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Expanded this a bit more. I'm calling it ready now. --LukeSurl t c 09:59, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    Posting. --Tone 10:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] 85th Academy AwardsEdit

    Article: 85th Academy Awards (talk, history)
    Blurb: Argo wins Best Picture at the 85th Academy Awards
    Alternative blurb: Argo wins Best Picture, Jennifer Lawrence Best Actress, and Daniel Day-Lewis a record third Best Actor at the 85th Academy Awards

    Article updated

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

    Nominator's comments: ITN/R, Starts tonight I figured I would get the template posted 
      – HonorTheKing (talk) 07:41, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    I've removed the proposed blurb, let's wait and see which movie actually wins. Otherwise, the standard blurb goes like "X wins Y awards, including Best picture, at the 85th Academy Awards". --Tone 08:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Iv'e reworded it to include X and Y instand of the movie/actor names per above advice. To Kevin McE, The award starts today, doesn't matter if it ends 10 minutes after midnight. (the American Football final nomination was added the day of the final, I did not see anyone remove it becuz it ended after 00:00UTC) the ITNR clearly stats "However, the relevant article(s) will still have to be updated appropriately and proposed on the candidates page before being posted." so thats why posted. About the update, like every other article which is ITNR or regular like elections there is always porposes blurb before the actuall info arive yet.
      – HonorTheKing (talk) 10:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    We never post Best Actor. Because, then it would also make sense to post Best Actress and Best Director etc. However, we can possibly combine it with a photo, if it is for the same movie (Best Actor X pictured). --Tone 11:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    The ceremony also starts after 00:00 (UTC), so this is the wrong date regardless. -- tariqabjotu 17:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Altblurb we can very easily accommodate best actress per the concern above--I am not sure if the Best awards should be capitalized or not. μηδείς (talk) 17:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose alt blurbs why not best director while we're at it? No, we can't turn this into a laundry list of awards crammed into the blurb. We've only done best picture in the past, lets stick with that. --IP98 (talk) 20:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I am all for that, assuming the same movie wins best director and best film--otherwise IP's suggestion is too wordy. μηδείς (talk) 02:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Blurb suggestion :
    Daniel Day-Lewis wins Best Actor award at the 85th Academy Awards, becoming the first man to win three best actor awards.
    LGA talkedits 05:00, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support I've also updated the main blurb to the Best Picture award, which IIRC, is how we've usually posted this. --Jayron32 05:03, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support mentioning Day-Lewis in addition to Argo due to his record third win. --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Best Picture alone. Neutral to other nominees. Tbhotch. Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 05:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Day-Lewis rather simple: Argo wins Best Picture, Jennifer Lawrence Best Actress, and Daniel Day-Lewis a record third Best Actor at the 85th Academy Awards. μηδείς (talk) 05:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: 85th_Academy_Awards#Achievements has some information, but adding that this is Day-Lewis' third Best Actor still needs to be done (especially if were are going to mention this in the blurb). SpencerT♦C 05:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support mentioning Day-Lewis per Thaddeus. Three wins is highly notable. Jusdafax 05:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Ready Day Lewis has been added and referenced [9] in the article. μηδείς (talk) 05:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Which Blurb are we using :
    1. Argo wins Best Picture at the 85th Academy Awards
    2. Argo wins Best Picture, Jennifer Lawrence Best Actress, and Daniel Day-Lewis a record third Best Actor at the 85th Academy Awards
    3. Argo wins Best Picture and Daniel Day-Lewis a record third Best Actor at the 85th Academy Awards
    LGA talkedits 05:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Probably the altblurb that was actually nominated, rather than one snuck in in the form of a question? Jennifer Lawrence's win and 2nd nom is also a record for someone her age. μηδείς (talk) 05:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I vote for 1. Keep it simple. --Jayron32 05:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I vote 3 then 2. 3 is cleaner and there is consensus to mention Day-Lewis . LGA talkedits 05:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    Ok, posting. I'll go with mentioning DDL as 3 awards is a record. --Tone 08:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    Comment: A pic of Daniel Day-Lewis is available if desired. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 24Edit

    [Posted] Daytona 500Edit

    Article: 2013 Daytona 500 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​In stock car racing, Jimmie Johnson wins the Daytona 500.
    Alternative blurb: ​In stock car racing, Jimmie Johnson wins the Daytona 500 and pole winner Danica Patrick becomes first woman to achieve top 10 finish.
    News source(s): USA Today

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: The Daytona 500 is not on ITN/R, but actually receives more coverage and notoriety than the Cup winner (which is on ITN/R). It has been posted several years. This year's race was especially well covered with the big crash yesterday and Danica becoming the first woman to win the pole (and finishing the highest ever by a woman). --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support I initially thought it was already ITN/R, but anyways it should be posted. Truthsort (talk) 21:58, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Needs prose update for results section. Also I'm not seeing anything about the crash in the article body. Subsections for the crash and for Danica Patrick, with 5 referenced sentences (ie the ITN minimum update) would make this an easy support for me. --IP98 (talk) 22:09, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Not one of the Triple Crown of Motorsport so this race is not like one of the Majors in Golf or Grand Slams in Tennis and without any prose on the race to demonstrate otherwise it looks like an uneventful race. LGA talkedits 23:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Daytona 500 is obviously one of the most popular races. However i think it should be posted on a yearly basis only depending on notability for that year. This year i really believe it deserves to be posted mainly for 3 reasons. 1) Danica Patrick winning pole 2) The major crash day before the race which injured spectators which is incredibly rare 3) Danica Patrick becoming first woman to get a top 10 finish. I've added alternate blurb to add her achievement as well. The media attention for this race has been massive and it definitely should be posted this year. it does not need to be on ITN/R (also please remember that any oppose based on the race not being in ITN/R is basically invalid as noted many times) -- Ashish-g55 00:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment I do not agree with mentioning Danica's name in the blurp. A top ten finish is not that significant. Truthsort (talk) 01:45, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    Thats your opinion. every single news article i read out there says otherwise. If you saw the race then you should know they followed her around in the entire race, much more than anyone else -- Ashish-g55 02:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    I did watch the race and honestly it does not matter if they spend most of their time covering her. In the past, did we ever mention Danica being the first female driver to finish in the top five at the Indianapolis 500. Unless she wins, mentioning this is just insignificant trivia. Truthsort (talk) 02:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    I dont see how not mentioning her improves anything. clearly she is more in the news than the winner and would be a major reason to post this -- Ashish-g55 02:31, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Understanding why it's not getting support - not like it's women's cricket or anything epic like that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:56, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Altblurb: Per the earlier discussion of Daytona car crash as an ITN item, let's try this altblurb: In motorsport, Jimmie Johnson wins the Daytona 500 and Danica Patrick becomes the first woman to achieve a top ten finish, one day after debris from a crash injured 28 spectators on the same track. --Orlady (talk) 02:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support as a combined blurb covering the race results and the crash. I know very little about the sport and care less than that, but I live in a region of the United States where NASCAR gets more local media attention than Major League Baseball, and I can testify that the Daytona 500 is possibly the biggest race of the year for NASCAR fans. This year's race got more even more attention than usual because of the prominence of a woman driver, and the crash adds to its significance. As noted above, if women's cricket is important enough for ITN, surely this item it, too. --Orlady (talk) 02:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: I've added prose on the race & yesterday's crash. In terms of update, the article now meets the ITN standard. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Most important single race every year on the NASCAR schedule, well covered by the sports press, article is updated. --Jayron32 02:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posting alt-blurb. The article dedicates a lot of information about Patrick (who also makes the race more notable this year), so posting the altblurb. If there's consensus to use the first blurb, it can be changed. SpencerT♦C 02:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Note The crash occurred in a separate race for a separate NASCAR series. -- (talk) 18:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    DR Congo peace agreementEdit

    Article: M23 rebellion (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Eleven African nations sign an agreement designed to bring peace the Democratic Republic of Congo after years of civil war.
    News source(s): BBC

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: Historic agreement - its not often you can get 11 countries to agree to anything - whether or not it proves effective in the long run. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:30, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    Maybe use the official title of the agreement to start a new pagE? Same as we had the Azawad declaration pf indepLihaas (talk) 19:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Oppose while this is a good thing, we often see the United Nations agree (i.e. over 150 countries) to something which is then summarily ignored (per most recent UN resolutions). Sorry, but not really news. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. An agreement to end a long war is notable. We can't assume that it won't succeed or be ignored. Nothing would get posted here if assuming it would be undone in the future was a disqualifier. 331dot (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support re: notability as an important (final?) development in a major conflict. --LukeSurl t c 21:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, an important development. Nsk92 (talk) 21:47, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Quick question to those supporting, what article are you supporting? Can you point me to the suitable update following this newsworthy item? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • No update has yet occurred hence "Article needs updating" in the nomination. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:54, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Yep, so what are the "supporters" supporting? I suggest the supporters wait for (a) an article to be updated and (b) the update to be suitable, before they offer their support.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I am supporting the notability- unlike the discussion below, this nom is not ITNR so its notability must be agreed to. I presume the article will be updated, and not be posted until it is adequate; if it is posted improperly, or not updated, then it should not be posted(or be removed). Your suggestion is noted. 331dot (talk) 22:07, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I was mentioning that I felt the story was notable (as I judge from non-wikipedia sources), as this is the main point of discussion on most items here. It's pretty well established that determining/working on article readiness and item notability are the two main functions of this page, and that they can be discussed separately. For example, arguments like "I do not think this is a sufficiently important development to post, but the article update is good" and "The article is not ready yet, but the news item is of sufficient importance to post when it is" are both useful contributions to the working of this page. --LukeSurl t c 22:11, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: article is now updated. In-fighting about how to deal with the agreement among M23 rebels today left 10 dead indicating the agreement is not likely to just be ignored entirely. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:34, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Still oppose. Still no reason to believe this will actually amount to anything. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:38, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait There is a pretty good update, but until the M23 actually agrees to it, it's one sided. They're meeting in Uganda right now with the Congolese government, so we'll see. Nice job with the update Thaddeus. --IP98 (talk) 23:01, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • To clarify, those talks on unrelated to this agreement. The agreement in question is for the 11 countries to "cooperate" (which mostly means stop poking their noses into Congo's problems) in dealing with the situation. There is nothing in it for M23 to agree to. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] Cypriot presidential electionEdit

    Article: Cypriot presidential election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: Nicos Anastasiades is elected president of Cyprus.
    News source(s): Bloomberg

    Article updated

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

     --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:32, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Article is now updated and as an ITNR item is thus ready for main page. Naturally, another admin should verify that teh update is sufficient before posting. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:43, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support obviously pointless since the item is ready, but I wanted to throw in anyway. Nice job ThaddeusB. For what it's worth, I think it's better to not link to the results section directly in the bold link. Cheers. --IP98 (talk) 20:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Important election. Article looks ready, good work. --LukeSurl t c 21:43, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Article is ok... there are a few wording quibbles in it that could be repaired, but it's ready for a link from the Front page. Jusdafax 00:03, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I did some copyediting so it should be good to go. SpencerT♦C 02:36, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted --Jayron32 02:34, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    Tina MazeEdit

    Articles: Tina Maze (talk, history) and 2013 Alpine Skiing World Cup (talk, history)
    Blurb: Tina Maze wins the ladies overall title in the Alpine Skiing World Cup.
    Alternative blurb: Tina Maze secures the ladies overall title in the Alpine Skiing World Cup with nine races still remaining.

    Both articles updated

    Nominator's comments: We regularly post the winners of the Alpine skiing World Cup. Usually, we do this at the end of the season, combining men and ladies winners but this year, Maze secured the title 9 (out of 37) races before the end of the season, what is an impressive achievement by itself. I suggest posting now because of that. --Tone 14:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC) --Tone 14:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Question when is the end of the season? --IP98 (talk) 15:30, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    17 March. --Tone 15:36, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Even if her lead is insurmountable, isn't she still not formally declared the winner until the end of the season? I'm not sure how it works. 331dot (talk) 16:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose for now Schedule runs through March 17. Even if the lead is "insurmountable", "it ain't over 'till it's over". – Muboshgu (talk) 18:15, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I will formally oppose this until the season is over and she is declared the winner. 331dot (talk) 21:16, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support now. Lots of reliable sources say she has won although some of them use other words like clinches or seals the title. It's basic arithmetic. 2013 Alpine Skiing World Cup#Overall 2 shows she has 1844 points and number two has 886. FIS Alpine Ski World Cup#World Cup scoring system shows 100 points for a race win. There are 9 races to go. That means number two can get at most 886 + 9×100 = 1786. Winning with so many races to go is notable and should be included in the blurb, and it is in the news now. The official ceremony after the last race will probably get less attention. But since the competition is ongoing and something might theoretically happen (death, doping, the end of the World, ?) let's use other wording. Suggested alternative blurb:
    Tina Maze secures the ladies overall title in the Alpine Skiing World Cup with nine races still remaining.
    PrimeHunter (talk) 23:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Yes, the sources state that's it. The three theoretical reasons would probably merit another ITN story (especially the third one). The alternative wording is good. And then in March we just post who won the men's cup. --Tone 09:00, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I support posting it now as long as the altblurb is used. It looks like the early securing of victory has generated a good amount of international coverage. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose- ITN has always waited for things to be official, so until she gets the trophy and is declared the overall winner, she hasn't won yet. As a side note, if she died would she still win? Are there any scenarios where she could not win? Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 04:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    No, in sports we do like almost every other source in the World: Post when the winner is mathematically certain. See for example Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/May 2011#.5BPosted merged.5D Manchester United win Premier League (the last game was a week later) and Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/October 2011#.5BPosted.5D Sebastian Vettel (the last race was 7 weeks later). I haven't studied the rules but there are probably theoretical scenarios like death and doping where she would be removed from competition. In elections we often post before the official results which may be days or weeks after the election. And we posted "Barack Obama is re-elected President of the United States" more than a month before he was actually elected by the Electoral College. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    The election is a slightly different situation; the Electoral College is just a formality and while they technically could choose someone other than the percieved winner of the election, they never have. If we posted this person's victory at the end of the season but before she took possession of the title, that would be OK. But I don't believe we post someone as the winner of the election while the polls are still open, even if the winner is mathematically certain. 331dot (talk) 14:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    We often post election winners before all votes have been counted. Vote counting usually starts after the polls close but we actually posted Obama's win [10] before the polls closed in Alaska [11] (we did the same in 2008). Lots of votes in many states were still uncounted, including states Obama needed to win. But enough states were considered safe, even if his lead was sometimes smaller than the number of uncounted votes and therefore not mathematically certain. As mentioned, posting sports winners when the result is mathematically certain is the ITN norm and not a suggested exception here. We are more careful in sports than in elections. We never post a sports winner just because their lead is so large that it appears very unlikely they will be reached. We wait until the win is mathematically certain, and it is for Tina Maze. The theoretical reasons she could be removed from competition are not mathematical, and some of them would still apply after the last race. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 23Edit

    [Posted] North Darfur violence kills 81Edit

    Article: Sudanese nomadic conflicts (talk, history)
    Blurb: Two clashes between tribes in North Darfur, Sudan leave at least 81 people dead.
    News source(s): Reuters for 21 Feb Fox 10 TV for 23 Feb

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: Been more than a year since I nominated an article here so hopefully I have got everything right! Recent violence in North Darfur has broken a ceasefire negotiated in January. At least 21 people were killed on 21 February and 60 on 23 February. Fighting over a gold mine by the same tribes earlier in January has now been revealed to have killed more than 500 (I didn't nominate that as details were too sketchy to update the article back then, new figures have just been released) but this is the worst since the ceasefire that ended that. Now we have good details on a currently occurring conflict it is a good chance to get the ongoing situation in ITN. Dumelow (talk) 19:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support, largest recent incident in the region, as per nom. Update looks sufficient. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per ThaddeusB --IP98 (talk) 21:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per rationale given. 331dot (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Marked as ready in line with support given here. If posted now it would just make the second-last spot on the template. It is a shame the news takes several days to be reported from Darfur (for obvious reasons) - Dumelow (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posting. SpencerT♦C 18:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

    Daytona car crashEdit

    This nomination has been superceded by the Daytona 500 nomination above. SpencerT♦C 03:11, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: DRIVE4COPD 300 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​More than 30 spectators are injured, two critically, after debris from a crash flies into the stands at the DRIVE4COPD 300 auto race at Daytona International Speedway.
    Alternative blurb: ​In motorsport, someone wins the Daytona 500 one day after debris from a crash injured 30 spectators on the same track.
    News source(s): AP

    Article needs updating
    Nominator's comments: I do not recall ever hearing of an auto race where spectators were injured, so I assume this is a highly unusual event. Event has a high potential to lead to some sort of safety updates so has long term implications... The Daytona 500 will happen tomorrow, as scheduled, so a combined blurb is a possibility. (Daytona has been covered on ITN some years and skipped some years, so would have a good chance of being posted regardless.) -- ThaddeusB (talk) 03:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Not that unusual, and nobody died so far. List of accidents and disasters by death toll#Sporting events has some, including the 1955 Le Mans disaster with 83 dead spectators. List of Dakar Rally fatal accidents#List of fatal accidents involving non-competitors has many others, and that's just one race. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:02, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    I only saw three auto races on the first list you linked the last was in the 1960s, so that hardly proves it is common. So, I researched it a bit more. Looks like the last time a spectator will killed in a track autorace was 1999. The last time spectator injuries (7) occurred was 2009 as near as I can find. Therefore, I stand by the rare categorization. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:21, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    List of accidents and disasters by death toll#Sporting events only shows cases with at least 6 deaths, and there are actually 10 cases under these entries (including dead drivers in the count): 80+, 28, 15, 13, a second 13, a third 13, 12, 11, 8, a second 8 (in 2010 in California [12]). There must be a lot more cases with fewer deaths, not to mention cases where there were only injuries. Restrictions like track autoraces seem of low relevance to ITN. Are non-fatal injuries at a track more significant than deaths outside tracks? And spectator injuries and deaths are common in general at other sports or events, for example in riots, stampedes, fires, collapses. I guess this gets a lot of coverage in USA but internationally I don't see the big deal. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    There is a difference between tracks, which are short enough to be completely surrounded by car-catching fences, and Le Mans or a rally like Senegal-to-Cairo where people just stand on the side of the road. On the other hand, I have never heard of a riot, stampede, crowd crush, collapse, stands fire, or hooliganism at any sporting event in the US (we have these things called cops in the stadium by the way), which would go up on that alone on US Wikipedia but is apparently common in other countries. Go figure. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    It varies by country. We posted the 2013 Houphouët-Boigny stampede (nomination) with 61 dead and over 200 injured (it was a sports stadium but not a sports event). If you add enough qualifiers (auto race spectators, closed track, USA) then you can make something rare, but a lot of shit happens around the World. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC) one guy got shot before a top-league football game in a ghetto city, in the parking lot Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    closed course
    I didn't say US or closed track, I said with catch fences. You should see how it would be much easier to have accidents when they just drive from Dakar to Cairo with no safety barriers than when they encircle the course with an inward curving metal fence which I'm almost certain is designed to bend to maximize the chance of car matter not breaking/penetrating it (and minimize driver injuries). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support combined blurb tomorrow on the winner of the Daytona 500 and the injuries to people in the crowd. The Daytona 500 is a a very big deal in the context of NASCAR, so it should be a perennial strong candidate for ITN. Absent the accident, DRIVE4COPD race isn't particularly inherently important. The accident was a serious one that is worthy of consideration for ITN, and the combination of the race and the accident makes a very strong ITN item, assuming that the articles are developed appropriately. For the record, there have been other incidents of spectator injuries at NASCAR and other motor races, per this AutoWeek article. Also, I found a 2009 news piece about injuries to 9 spectators in a race that year. --Orlady (talk) 04:11, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose any mention of the spectators that were injured, unfortunately it is a relative common, so much so that most Motorsports events admission tickets specifically warn spectators of the risk. As for the race it's self, I have to Reserve Judgement on that as it has not happened, and there is no article update to review and no coverage to speak of. LGA talkedits 06:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I'm going to have to disagree with this logic. The tickets have a warning to prevent legal liability, which in no way proves injury is common. All kinds of products carry warnings for events that happened once or even never. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose thankfully this event, while visually spectacular, has too few serious casualties to merit ITN. Drivers and spectators being killed is not all that rare, and there were none here. μηδείς (talk) 15:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    What's the point of catch-fencing if an engine and wheel can go right through it? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    • I don't know, what is the point of catch-fencing? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:27, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • To catch any airborne cars or car pieces before they reach the spectator area. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strongest possible oppose Unless you want to relegate ITN to a complete joke Wikipedia, don't post non-news worthy items that effect a very small amount of people in a minority sport (Which is set up to make crashes a possibility, isn't it?) - no deaths, not even remotely comparable to the Russian meteor incident...-- (talk) 19:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I don't think *anything* that's happened in the last year is "even remotely comparable to the Russian meteor incident". If you want to talk about jokes, using a once in a 10000 year event as the standard for ITN would certainly qualify. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose these things happen, no real big deal, I had to hunt for coverage in the UK of this. Even then it's just one of those things. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak Support There is no such thing as "minimum deaths". We posted a bunch of school kids in china being injured by a reckless driver, so I think this is worthy of consideration. The thing is, I can't find any decent update for it. --IP98 (talk) 20:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Note: Since there does not appear to be sufficient support to post the accident, I have separately nominated the Daytona 500 itself above to stand or fail on its own merits. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Canadian terrorism threatsEdit

    Stale news item. SpencerT♦C 19:25, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: Terrorism in Canada (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​The Canadian Security Intelligence Service warns of possible attacks within Canada due to the presence of Al-Qaeda affiliated groups in the country.
    News source(s): The Globe and Mail CBC

    Article updated
    Nominator's comments: I think it's an important development in internal security for Canada and thus other countries. -- Kotjap (talk) 13:14, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose while I agree that in terms of Canada's internet internal security it's rare for them to ratchet up the fear machine like this, there has been no plot either uncovered or actually executed, so for now, oppose. --IP98 (talk) 13:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    The Ontario plot was foiled. There was a plot. Kotjap (talk) 13:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. No actual act of terrorism to hang our proverbial hat on; warnings like this are fairly standard. The Ontario plot was seven years ago. 331dot (talk) 13:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Threats are not ITN; attacks are ITN. If we had posted every time Tom Ridge played around with his color codes in the early 2000s.... – Muboshgu (talk) 16:17, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    Oppose. Canadian media isn't even covering this (talk) 17:23, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Scratch that. I haven't heard of it because this is two weeks old. (talk) 17:27, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment This item is indeed 11 days old, and out of the news. It is also marked "updated" even though only two sentence have been added. I placed a note on Kotjap's talk page about this yesterday after I noticed he had marked his two prior noms updated when they weren't. I suggest an admin close this, and I have started a discussion of this on the talk page. μηδείς (talk) 18:32, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    F-35 groundingEdit

    No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 03:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: F-35 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​The United States Military grounds its entire F-35 jet fleet due to a major engine technical issue.
    News source(s): BBC CNN

    Article needs updating
    Nominator's comments: We did the 787 grounding a little while back, this seems to be the military analogue. --LukeSurl t c 10:23, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The Concerns over performance and safety section seems to be the appropriate place for this information. --LukeSurl t c 10:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Same plane has just returned from a several week grounding. 787 has scheduling implications: its removal from service affects several thousand journeys every day, its military analogue has no impact on ordinary life. Kevin McE (talk) 11:09, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. The article says the plane's introduction is "after 2016". The temporary grounding of a plane still in testing/development is a non-story. Thue (talk) 12:17, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. As Thue says, the aircraft is not technically in service yet; and this sort of thing is normal for aircraft still in development. 331dot (talk) 12:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Isn't ITN supposed to deal with international issues? I agree with 331dot... grounding of developing aircraft is very common. TheStrikeΣagle 12:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose per Kevin McE, Thue and 311dot. Interesting though, no question about that. No international issue requirement here. --IP98 (talk) 13:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Well, several countries want to purchase the F-35, so there is somewhat of an international interest here. 331dot (talk) 13:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Sorry, I meant that international issues are not a requirement to post to ITN. --IP98 (talk) 13:20, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    No apology necessary; I actually wanted to place this below Strike's comment. 331dot (talk) 13:22, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    I'm pretty aware that some european countries plan to purchase the Lightning.But the number of them in my opinion is pretty low.Morever, considering the aircraft is still in developmental phase, grounding is not surprising.F-35B and F-35C has been had issues for some time now anyway. TheStrikeΣagle 13:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose no major surprise when an aircraft in development has a design flaw. No big deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    February 22Edit

    Oscar Pistorius granted bailEdit

    Clear consensus not to post; consensus is to wait until actual conviction to consider an item. SpencerT♦C 06:45, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Articles: Oscar Pistorius (talk, history) and Reeva Steenkamp (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Paralympian Oscar Pistorius is granted bail, pending trial for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp
    News source(s): Reuters Telegraph Guardian Washington Post Wall Street Journal
    Nominator's comments: Currently leading Google news for countries across the world including U.K., U.S. and Australia. In the U.K. it has been the front-page story for mid-market papers like the Evening Standard for the last four days solidly. Also provoking comment pieces on the state of contemporary South Africa such as this in the New York Times, or this in the Baltimore Sun. A worldwide story. --Jheald (talk) 17:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose if his arrest for suspected murder didn't make ITN, I can't really see why we should advertise his bail. Shelve all this and wait until the actual trial concludes, and maybe then we have a story for the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Perhaps, but frankly not running the arrest was a bizarre decision that makes WP's view of news values look very very odd. Jheald (talk) 18:55, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Perhaps, but there's also a requirement for Wikipedia to be encyclopaedic which sometimes conflicts with reporting news early. Right now we just have to wait until the trial concludes. Which may be a year away. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the story will likely be front page news around the world for weeks to come. The verdict will likely get posted, but no other development is ITN worthy (unless something really bizarre happens). --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong Oppose Notable but not encyclopedic. He being granted a bail does not make earth go round-about. Hence, not ITN worthy Regards, theTigerKing  19:04, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose: The final verdict will probably be ITN worthy, suggest wait until then. We can't post every new development in the trial. As a side note, I also think that unless and until he is proven guilty, we should be careful about the risk of putting details of the trial up on the front page and (accidentally) portraying him as a criminal. Chamal TC 02:06, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral I agree that we TOTALLY dropped the ball by not having any blurb about this, despite the fact that the Pistorius article is very high quality, and this has been top headline news since it happened. That being said, screwing this up before doesn't mean this is the way to correct that. We should definitely post this, but now our only next logical opportunity will be the conclusion of the trial. --Jayron32 02:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the only element of this case that will have any long term significance will be the verdict and if found guilty the sentence, the granting (or otherwise) of bail is just part of the process of the trial, what next posting every time there is a objection sustained ? There is a long way to go on this one and it is going to be a news editors dream, I am already getting the feeling that this will be to the 2010's what OJ was to the 90's. But we should remember that the wiki project for news is Wikinews and we need to keep this story in perspective. LGA talkedits 02:48, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment The fact that he may yet walk is not necessarily a reason to withhold an item that shows the presiding judge doesn't expect he'll run. Nevertheless, it pains me to agree with our neutral voter. μηδείς (talk) 03:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose and call for a SNOW close. As the last time this was discussed, when this story broke, nothing should be posted unless he is convicted of a crime in this case. If we aren't going to post his arrest(and shouldn't), we shouldn't post this. Even if we were posting some bizarre aspect of this event, being granted bail doesn't mean anything in relation to the trial, and as such does not qualify. 331dot (talk) 04:23, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Japanese whaling disputeEdit

    Consensus not to post. SpencerT♦C 06:48, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: Whaling in Japan (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Japan vows to continue its whale hunting despite pressure from enviromentalist group Sea Shepherd
    News source(s): Japan Today News,

    Article needs updating
     --Kotjap (talk) 11:17, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    February 21Edit

    Barbados electionEdit

    Article: Barbadian general election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​The Democratic Labour Party wins the Barbadian general election, 2013.

    Article needs updating

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

     Lihaas (talk) 10:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose Had this been posted and updated when it happened, one could agree there was established consensus meriting ITNR listing. Given it wasn't, it doesn't. μηδείς (talk) 18:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Umm it IS ITNR for the nth time and it is not yet the oldest article on ITNLihaas (talk) 19:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    In case you didn't read the discussion on decommissioning ITNR, there is strong support among the oppose votes to "reform" the list and remove cruft like this if it isn't actually affirmed by a broad majority. Yelling "But ITN/R" does nothing to show a consensus for notability--or maybe we can link to the discussion that established that credibility? A link to that discussion, anybody? μηδείς (talk) 19:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    here is the link. I count a good number of opposes to that proposal. This nom is not a soapbox to continue the "I don't like ITN/R" refrain. As of now, ITN/R stands. --IP98 (talk) 20:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Are you purposefully being false? I asked for a link to the discussion which established this item as part of ITN/R in the first place. That's not what you gave. And, as mentioned, many of the "opposes" you counted, but did not perhaps read, favor reforming ITNR and removing items like this. μηδείς (talk) 20:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking for a link to the ongoing discussion, not to the discussion where this election was added to the list. here is the link where elections were added. All the way back in 2008. Took a few seconds of entering a search term into the archive search box to find. No fraud here. Just 5 year old consensus. Cheers. --IP98 (talk) 20:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    Who has called for removing national elections?(Do you mean just of small countries?) And reform of the list should take place in the context of reforming the entire list, not piece by piece on this page. 331dot (talk) 20:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support pending update per ITN/R. Needs final results and prose update. --IP98 (talk) 20:24, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • What is the point of a "support pending update per ITN/R" vote? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Exactly that. I support the notability of the item, but do not believe that the update is adequate for main page. I think 311dot said it better below. --IP98 (talk) 21:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Not at all. You support the principle of ITN/R, i.e. it's on ITN/R and needs updating. Which is what you've "supported". Of course, if ITN/R is followed, your terms of support are inherent. There's no point in "voting" that way at all. It's pointless, a waste of your time, a waste of our time. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
            • I realize now the folly of my ways. I'm terribly sorry for wasting your time, Rambling Man. I will endeavour to do better! [13] --IP98 (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
              • I don't get it at all. But thanks. Is this about my distaste at another editor calling an article an "abortion"? You agree with those terms? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                • Huh? No... I was just pointing out a discussion last year when an ITN/R nom was rejected on notability grounds. In this case, people disagreed that San Marino was "important enough" as a country for posting. The ITN/R haters can be very vocal as well. I don't think you were even part of that thread, I stopped reading it when it got silly. I'm just pointing it out anyway, not trying to start an argument. --IP98 (talk) 21:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                  • I had to search the article text for "abortion". There you are. Yeah, I don't care either way. I guess you already knew about that discussion then. --IP98 (talk) 21:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                  • Well maybe you should have the read the whole thread before using it here in a discussion directed at me. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                    • I was simply pointing out a nom where an ITN/R item was opposed on notability grounds. That's all. I wasn't trying to single you out in it in any way. --IP98 (talk) 22:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the article is clearly not ready. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support pending update. National elections are ITNR and since we still have ITNR it is still presumed notable. If anyone feels that national elections are not sufficiently notable for whatever reason(and to whatever degree), then propose the removal of national elections from ITNR, either now or during what I expect to be an upcoming discussion to reevaluate the current list. It should, however, not be posted until the article is sufficiently updated. 331dot (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • What is the point of a "support pending update per ITN/R" vote? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
        • What is the point of an "oppose, it's not ready" vote? 331dot (talk) 20:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Just that, it's not ready for main page, it lacks quality or the required updates or has maintenance tags or so on and so on so oppose. Obviously. What a curious question. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:55, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
            • My point was that we were essentially saying the same thing from opposite ends(support once ready vs. oppose it's not ready), at least from where I'm sitting. 331dot (talk) 20:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
              • Not at all. "Support per ITN/R plus update" is inherent in all ITN/R nominations and doesn't need anyone to repeat it endlessly. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                • No. Notability is inherent, not the update. If there isn't one, or it's of poor quality, an event should not be posted. For someone who feels it is a waste of time, you are spending a lot of time on this. No one is compelling you to be involved. 331dot (talk) 21:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                  • No, claiming ITN/R and "waiting for an update" is a waste of time. You need to support once the update is done. A "support pending update" due to ITN/R is a given within the current parameters of going blindly with ITN/R. Obviously. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                    • I will support things how and when I please, thanks, just as you can. If you feel it is a waste of time, then ignore me. I prefer to state my support now; if the update is poor or nonexistent I would be happy to reevaluate my opinion. 331dot (talk) 21:21, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                      • The sooner the "support per ITN/R pending update" brigade give up, the better. The current point of ITN/R is that the article is inherently supported pending an update. It doesn't need a bunch of ITN fanboys to say "support per ITN/R pending update". Seriously. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                        • And when you are the sole arbiter of what is a valid comment on this page, I'll keep that in mind- namecalling nonwithstanding. 331dot (talk) 21:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                          • Sorry, when did I say that? I asked what the point of your vote was, when it's clearly covered by the current ITN/R guidelines, there's no need for you to "vote" at all. What a waste of time! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:32, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                            • I already explained my vote by saying that I was saying the same thing you were, just in a different way. If you don't see that, or disagree that was what I did, there's not much I can do about it. I'm done now. 331dot (talk) 21:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
                              • Good news. Look forward to your next meaningless support of an ITN/R article "pending update". The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Timing note: The BBC reported the result 22 February. --LukeSurl t c 21:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support when this is updated, ITNR item. Otherwise, not ready for main page yet.--Jayron32 02:37, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

    Syrian civil warEdit

    Article: Syrian civil war (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​In the Syrian civil war, a car bomb goes off in Damascus, killing over 50 and injuring over 230
    News source(s): Wall Street Journal, New York Times BBC

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: All over the news, major event. Bombing is close to Ba'ath party headquarters, no one has claimed responsibility as yet, but this is a lead headline on many news websites, and a significant development in the war. --Jayron32 18:29, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    • This sort of thing is, unfortunately, somewhat routine in Syria at the moment. However, in the absence of a sticky, it would be remiss of us not to post stories from the conflict occasionally. Thus I support posting this item now. Also the article seems already fit-to-post. --LukeSurl t c 19:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • An addendum, I would (weakly) support re-instating the sticky. Perhaps a link to Ongoing conflicts as a permanent main page feature might work; however that article would probably need a bit of a shake-up. LukeSurl t c 19:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support- I was going to nominate this, but then remembered there was a sticky. Why is the sticky gone? Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 21:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose This is a war zone, these types of bombings have body count but have zero impact on the course of the conflict. --IP98 (talk) 22:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support (either sticky or blurb) This is a war; these types of bombings have body count and determine the course of the conflict. μηδείς (talk) 00:18, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Hi Medeis. This was a car bombing, not a military action. There was a car bombing a few days ago in Pakistan, and again a month ago. Last week in Iraq. How will this car bombing directly impact the course of the war? --IP98 (talk) 00:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    I mean, the end of the Battle of Aleppo (2012–2013) will be a turning point, this is a car bombing. How do the two compare? --IP98 (talk) 00:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    I'd prbbly rather go back to a sticky, but the point is that at some point the straw will break the camel's back. μηδείς (talk) 02:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose. A big deal if you were standing near it, obviously. But, in context, this is "bomb explodes during war". Formerip (talk) 01:25, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support as notable because of targeting of civilians and death count. Also support suggestion of reinstating the sticky as the conflict is still very active and quite possibly at a critical phase. Looking at the ITN discussion linked to above, the sticky was removed less than two hours after this was proposed, when only three people has posted. Subsequently to the removal there were three opposes. So I think the removal was rather unsatisfactory, as the unduly short time period meant that the apparent consensus was not a real one. Neljack (talk) 01:35, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment this will probably go up, but it could use a bit more of an update. Consider February_2013_Quetta_bombing Bombing and Perpetrator sections for examples. Things like approximate size of bomb, description of vehicle, likely perpetrators, etc. Was there gunfire or some other insurgent behavior immediately after the blast? The way I see it, this is one paragraph in the middle of a massive article, where the Quetta bombing had to stand on it's own. Anyway... --IP98 (talk) 01:57, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support: As far as I'm aware this is the first car bomb in the war, in which case this would be a major event. If the resistance did it, it means they have openly adopted terrorist tactics. If the government forces did it, it means they have sunk to a new low from launching conventional military assaults against civilians. If it's not both, then somebody else entering the war by creating such a large incident (rather than covertly supporting either side) is terrible news in itself. Chamal TC 03:04, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Um there was December 2011 Damascus bombings (which occured while Arab league observers were there), February 2012 Aleppo bombings, March 2012 Damascus bombings, April 2012 Idlib bombings, 10 May 2012 Damascus bombings, 2012 Deir ez-Zor bombing. And that's just those mentioned as car bombings in List of bombings during the Syrian civil war. These have perhaps slowed down recently (or may be they're just getting less attention) but at least historically the typical response has always been the rebels accused the government of being behind the attack, perhaps as a false flag attack while the government says it proves the rebels are terrorists. I don't really get why a car bombing is particularly unique anyway. Suicide attacks regardless of whether cars were involved would seem to be of a similar character, it would depend more on the target, the area affected and the number of people killed. Even non suicide bombings (bombings involving planted bombs rather then more convential military attacks) wouldn't seem that different again depending on the target, area affected and number of people killed. P.S. To be clear, this isn't intended as a comment for or against this item appearing on ITN. Simply on the idea that there's something special about this because it's a car bomb. Nil Einne (talk) 06:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Oh, my bad. In that case, I'm moving to 'weak support. I'm not saying that car bombs are unique; the point I'm trying to make is that it's an unconventional type of attack targeting civilians (and often used by "terrorists") whether it's a suicide attack or not, and it would be highly unusual for either side - a government or a resistance movement recognized by many countries - to do something like that. Chamal TC 07:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - This event is relatively minor in the context of the war. By now, this sort of thing is no longer surprising.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:31, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support- The event is notable. At the same time, Syrian civil war is no longer sticky. The event, may not result is a war, but itself is worthy to be in ITN. Death toll is high.Regards, theTigerKing  19:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    Michael EdwardsEdit

    Article: Michael Edwards (literary scholar) (talk, history)
    Blurb: Michael Edwards becomes the first British writer elected at the Académie française.
    News source(s): The Connexion

     --Hektor (talk) 16:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    • I support this in principle as the fact that the authoritative body on the French language would admit a British writer is significant; though I would submit that the article on the Académie française also be listed aside from Mr. Edwards; his article could be lengthened as well. 331dot (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak support. I'd like to get fully behind this just because it's random and everything ITN should be but isn't. However, the main selling point - an étranger being chosen - is weaker because, as can be seen from the article, he has dual nationality and because Julien Green was previously appointed. Edwards' article would also need a lot of development before posting. Formerip (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose this is perfect for DYK. μηδείς (talk) 19:51, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    We often do DYK a disservice by portraying it as a refuge for articles that are sort-of-vaguely-interesting-but-not-important-enough-for-ITN. The article is only about a third the minimum length it would need to be for that feature. Kevin McE (talk) 20:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Okay, this is in absolutely no way qualified for ITN, there is no notability here, and we do not post new admitees to the academie francaise. But this could be expanded and then nominated to DYK. Until then it's just plain esoteric. μηδείς (talk) 21:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose per article quality (article length too short), neutral on significance. Regarding Medeis suggestion above, how does this meet the requirements of DYK? DYK is not "ITN's table scraps" The article is not new, nor has it seen a 5 fold expansion, in the past 5 days. --Jayron32 19:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Your point is there is no way this marvelously notable person's article could possibly be expanded to meet the DYK requirements? Perhaps you are right; he doesn't belong on ITN or DYK. μηδείς (talk) 21:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment. Can we start just redacting/refactoring blatantly wrong calls to ship something off to DYK when it's not in any way qualified for it? GRAPPLE X 20:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: Why "elected at"? "Elected to" or "elected a member of" would make more sense. --Hegvald (talk) 20:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Because the nominator speaks French, where at makes sense? μηδείς (talk) 21:33, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Encyclopedic content. But, not notable. Even the subject is not well known outside Britain. Worthy of DYK but AFAIK not ITN.Regards, theTigerKing  19:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    Sony announces release of PlayStation 4 consoleEdit

    Per WP:SNOW. Doesn't look like this will be posted. -- Anc516(Champs!) (TalkContribs) 20:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: PlayStation 4 (talk, history)
    Blurb: Sony announces release of PlayStation 4 as a new-generation game console.
    News source(s): BBC
    Nominator's comments: An announcement concerned with the release of a new gaming console is a very big deal and important development in this technological sub-field. The news has received a widespread media coverage and tops the news related to technology worldwide. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong oppose. We had this out with the last Apple or Windows product or whatever (probably both), but we are not here to advertise new products. GRAPPLE X 16:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose there seems to be an eminently reasonable consensus against new commercial roll-outs. μηδείς (talk) 16:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - While I'm a VG editor and would love to see a major announcement in the area on the FP ITN, we usually don't post such stories. Moreso, while Sony has announced it - that announcement was pretty much announcing vaporware - no hardware was shown, no price given, and so many things still in flux. It really is not a proper announcement that, if we were considering such product announcements as ITN, I would still be hesistant to include. --MASEM (t) 11:40 am, Today (UTC−5)
    • Oppose. This isn't a technology blog. 331dot (talk) 18:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Not to disagree on the oppose, but we aren't a sports blog either but we report on the results of nearly every major event. I agree this PS4 announcement is trivial from a normal ITN standard, but we shouldn't ignore technology news just because it generally aligns with commercialization/monetary gain for one company. --MASEM (t) 18:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I'll clarify my comment by saying that I wouldn't be opposed to posting the creation of a revolutionary, brand-new technology (like if someone invented the replicators or transporters from Star Trek) but the PS4 is just an extension of the PS line of products. 331dot (talk) 19:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose entirely underwhelming announcement from Sony, just "the next in the series". No biggie I'm afraid. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:05, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose I would only support the posting of some new tech product if it had/did something so undoubtedly revolutionary that it was all over the headlines. That's why you won't see any iPad/iPhone postings anytime soon (sorry!). PS4 brings improvements, but far from revolutionary. Expected would be a better way to put the changes. -- Anc516(Champs!) (TalkContribs) 18:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong oppose The release of it might possibly be worthy of consideration (although I will almost certainly oppose), but this is no more than announcement that a release date will b announced in due time. In more dignified times, Sony would simply have issued a press release. Kevin McE (talk) 19:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Note to Sony: I'll happily switch my vote for €70 by PayPal. Formerip (talk) 19:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    [Posted] 2013 Hyderabad blastsEdit

    Article: 2013 Hyderabad blasts (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination
    Blurb: 12 dead and more than 70 has been injured in a twin blast that shock the Indian city of Hyderabad.
    Alternative blurb: ​Two bomb blasts in Hyderabad kill at least 17 people and injure 70 others.
    News source(s): The Times of India, The Hindu, BBC

    Article updated

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: Current news. More than 9 confirmed dead, while at-least 30 injured. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 14:37, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    Comment More recent stories take the deaths number to atleast 15 and injuries to 50.It's the first major blast in India in years.Also the first one in Hyderabad in almost 6 years. TheStrikeΣagle 14:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Conditional support pending confirmation that it was an act of terrorism or other deliberate act; from what I can read it's not entirely clear yet. Also pending article updates. 331dot (talk) 14:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
      • With the number of blast been reported, I'm sure this would be an act of terrorism. Awaiting for a reliable source confirming the same. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 15:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Agreed with Karthik.After the hanging of Afzal Guru some terrorist organizations of Pakistan warned of a retaliation.I guess this is one of them. TheStrikeΣagle 15:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait Lets not jump to conclusions. Lets stop posing as investigators or crime scene experts or foreign policy experts or social scientists. Wait for the confirmation from the officials. The incident happened just under 2 hours ago. Lets not be caught media frenzy.Regards, theTigerKing  15:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Agreed, lets wait till reliable sources come out with some actual or potential information. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 15:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Deccan Chronicle, Rediff, Zee News, Sky News, Indian Express and many more media calls the blasts as terror attack. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 17:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Comment What the media says doesn't matter. What the Government of India says is final and binding! Don't be in a hurry. The article is notable since it has been reported by AP[1] and is expected to be covered globally. Lets wait for the official response.Regards, theTigerKing  17:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
      • It has already been covered by BBC, and by almost all the media publications in India. Anyways, if we should be waiting till official confirmation from GOI, I don't think this article would make its way to ITN anywhere by this week. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 17:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
        • When I said the comments of media doesn't matter, I meant Indian media brandishing the attacks as "terrorists attacks". You had mentioned in the comment that the media is calling the attacks an act of terror. Hence, I posted the comment. You have taken my comments in a different direction.Regards, theTigerKing  17:50, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Official Response Director General of Police of Andhra Pradesh Dinesh Reddy has called the blasts "the handiwork of a terrorist network". Union Home Secretary R K Singh has called the two simultaneous explosions a "terror attack".[14] Union Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde has talked about intelligence on a possible terror attack prior to the blasts. Do we need more confirmation from GOI? Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 20:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support: Terror attacks are important news worldwide. --Nizil (talk) 21:21, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose no facts on the ground and, to be crass, this is about as unusual as people being shot in Chicago. μηδείς (talk) 21:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    What do you mean by "no facts"?? Ohh, you want more fatalities??? Things may be usual in Chicago and Pakistan, but not so in India; and rarly in Southern India. Reportedly, Improvised Explosive Devices has also beein used for the attack. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 04:12, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Oh, my, now I hate Indians because there aren't enough of them dead? (See the weird irony there?) The simple answer to your question is no. The article stands on its own. μηδείς (talk) 04:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Significant incident. While tragically common in Pakistan (which I suppose is what Medais is thinking of), this is not so common in India. LukeSurl t c 22:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Unfortunately, partition notwithstanding, I was not mistaking the two countries. μηδείς (talk) 00:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Now this news is published in all the leading news agencies. -Abhishikt (talk) 23:42, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support: The southern part of India is relatively peaceful compared to the northern parts where most of the insurgency takes place and the areas around Mumbai and Delhi where most of the bombings in India have occurred. Even if you consider the whole of India, it's not exactly a place where people and property get blown up every other day unlike some other unfortunate countries in the world right now. So I'd say this is significant enough to be ITN. Chamal TC 03:25, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: 2013_Hyderabad_blasts#Attacks needs to be fully converted to prose and needs just a small bit of expansion. ALT blurb proposed as well; I think that's a little better. SpencerT♦C 07:02, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Question: Isn't "blasts" too informal in an encyclopedia? Aren't "bombings" (if terrorists are the suspects) or "explosions" (if you guys want to play it safe) better alternatives? –HTD 16:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Bombings will be the better word as per the current scenario. Can some admin help me regarding this one; as there exist one redirection on the same. Thanks! -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:00, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
      • We have frequently used blasts before and I don't think it's too informal; for example, the wording in another ITN item is "A bomb blast at a market in Hazara Town...". SpencerT♦C 20:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:17, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    PULL we dont post 13 deaths (meanwhile Syria had about 50 and we dont post it). Chamal is also wrong. Hyderabad and Bangalore have had several bombings in the decade.Lihaas (talk) 20:27, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    There was consensus to post, and we do post items with a consensus to do so. Removing the "[Attention needed]" tag; if there is consensus to pull (or a violated ITN criterion or other issue, like copyvio), then the tag can be used. SpencerT♦C 20:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Lihaas, please let me know where WP:ITN/MinimumDeaths moved to. Thanks. --IP98 (talk) 01:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    RD: Kaoru KobayashiEdit

    Article: Kaoru Kobayashi (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination
    News source(s): Japan Today News

    Article needs updating

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: notorious Japanese murderer. He sparked the second wave of moral panic against Otakus after Tsutomu Miyazaki. Besides, notorious victim also, due to her age. Thank. Kotjap (talk) 09:29, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose. I don't see this as meeting any of the three criteria for the ticker. Was not in an office of power, not particularly notable in their field (this isn't Adam Lanza or the Beltway sniper), and international impact is limited. 331dot (talk) 11:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Comment So, only American murderers are famous? Kotjap (talk) 11:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    It has nothing to do with the murderer being Japanese or being executed by Japan; he only had three victims. Pardon my examples; that's what I'm most familiar with, but where this person is from is not relevant. 331dot (talk) 12:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    What? Absolutely not, just look at the vigorous opposition to the "Chris Dorner" nomination. Why does everyone assume that Americans have a predominant advantage for appearing on WP:ITN when, if anything, the opposite is true?--WaltCip (talk) 14:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    In Kotjap's defense, he may have been responding to my purely American examples. 331dot (talk) 14:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose meets no suitable criterion. (also not updated.) μηδείς (talk) 15:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose very minor and specialist interest, in fact the most interesting thing is that Japan continues to exercise capital punishment. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] Kepler-37Edit

    Article: Kepler-37 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​The discovery of Kepler-37b, the smallest exoplanet discovered to date, is announced.
    News source(s): Science World

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: News of Earth-sized exoplanets are not very rare these days, but this just reported planetary system has two of them which are smaller than Earth, and one of them is almost the size of the Moon. Nergaal (talk) 08:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    Support - From the linked Science News article: "The record for the smallest planet beyond our Solar System has been shattered by astronomers." Sounds like a significant discovery to me, but article needs some work. --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Now ready for mainpage in terms of article quality, IMO. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Support a handsome little article and good news for xenobiologists. μηδείς (talk) 16:50, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Support - Interesting and significant news. Article in good shape. This will be a fine ITN blurb. Jusdafax 19:05, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Marking ready: a good article with support and no apparent opposition. μηδείς (talk) 00:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support A good ITN item, only reservation is a question of systematic bias this looks like it is only a local news story, has anyone got a link to a Kepler based news article ? Is it even making news over there ? LGA talkedits 00:49, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Over where? Kepler-37 b?
    AFAICT, the source is an American website reporting a paper in a British journal by an international team of scientists (American-led, but international), using a BBC report as its main source of information. Formerip (talk) 01:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Exactly my point, only earth based news stories. LGA talkedits 01:23, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Not true. Formerip (talk) 01:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong Support I think many people will find this an interesting news item. Greengreengreenred 01:07, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Exoplanet discoveries are usually not newsworthy, but the size of this particular exoplanet makes it unique.--xanchester (t) 01:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted. SpencerT♦C 01:52, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Article about the planet created. Greengreengreenred 02:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 20Edit

    Grenada electionEdit

    Article: Grenadian general election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: Keith Mitchell's New National Party wins the Grenadian general election, 2013.
    News source(s): BBC

    Article needs updating

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

     Lihaas (talk) 10:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Timing note: The BBC reported this result 20 February. LukeSurl t c 17:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Oppose Had this been posted and updated when it happened, one could agree there was established consensus meriting ITNR listing. Given it wasn't, it doesn't. We could also use a link to the actual discussion that established this as having consensus for ITNR. Without that, posting this by default is a fraud. μηδείς (talk)
        • Fraud? Is that what an ITN/R nom is now? Fraud? You may not like ITN/R, but right now it stands, and we're a long ways off from consensus to scrap it and degenerate into bickering over the importance of every single election nom. --IP98 (talk) 20:34, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Yes, Fraud, unless you want to give a link to where this was established as consensus. Link? Please? Link? μηδείς (talk) 22:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
            • FranklyI think that fraud is over the top. <super>After all, I don't see you crying fraud every time some idiotic footbal game is nominated under ITN/R</super>. That said here is your Link!! <blink>Link!</blink> Liiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. No fraud here, just 5 year old consensus. --IP98 (talk) 15:02, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
            • You're welcome. --IP98 (talk) 15:02, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support pending update per ITN/R Needs prose update. Any objection to a helpful move to the correct date? --IP98 (talk) 20:31, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose this is not "in the news", it happened five days ago. Moreover, there's virtually nothing in this article besides a few tables. Nowhere near good enough for main page, and missed the boat for ITN. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

    Estonia's nationwide electric car charging networkEdit

    Article: Electric vehicle network#Estonia (talk, history)
    Blurb: Estonia launched the world's first nationwide electric car charging network.
    News source(s): The Guardian, Reuters

    Article updated

     --Beagel (talk) 15:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose while interesting, this is not a significant enough event to warrant front page coverage. The coverage of this event is one sentence in the linked article. Jehochman Talk 16:01, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Expanded. While I agree the article is not in the good shape, I can't agree that the event is not significant enough. This is actually important milestone in the usage of electric cars and as such, it is probably more significant than election of some politician about who 90% of Wikipedia readers never heard about and 80% of readers will never remember his name. Beagel (talk) 18:03, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. It is notable that Estonia is the first nation where one can drive an electric car anywhere in its territory and be within range of a charger. Important technological advance. 331dot (talk) 04:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Significant and important news item that would make a decent ITN blurb. Article issues must be addressed, however. Jusdafax 06:27, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support An important advance in this technology. The article update meets minimum standards, and is of good quality. Marking "ready". SpencerT♦C 06:59, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose looking at the numbers in other countries who have already been running such schemes such as France and Germany, despite this being "country-wide" it's a relatively small number of vehicles. Estonia has a small population, is a much smaller country than those mentioned. Even the UK has 3,000 charging points (Estonia will have 165 fast chargers only). Plus it looks like Estonians will have to buy their cars, in Paris, for instance, the cars are free of charge to use! Interesting enough, but not a massive "leap forward". The Rambling Man (talk) 10:01, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • What's the deal with the three-year-old cleanup tag at the top of the article? There's no discussion on the talk page about it. We should deal with this prior to a main page posting. LukeSurl t c 10:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support "This is the highest concentration of DC chargers in Europe". First country to complete nationwide (albeit a small country). We post other infrastructure items (Beijing subway), so this can go too. As for the 3 year old cleanup tag with no talk page item or reason specified, maybe it should just wander off. --IP98 (talk) 19:46, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Once again, something much more appropriate for DYK. Government launches happen all the time, like Jimmy Carter's plan to metrify the US they don't always work out. We do mention infrastructure upgrades when they are actually completed--not when they are announced. μηδείς (talk) 20:32, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    I took the sources given as saying that the system is completed. 331dot (talk) 20:38, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    The source which says the number of users is expected to double to 200 next year? The news seems to be that there are enough stations to handle the current (no pun intended) capacity at best. μηδείς (talk) 20:44, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    I see where it says there are 200 privately owned cars, but I don't see where it says they only have enough capacity for that many cars. What's notable here isn't the number of cars, but the infrastructure completed to allow one to use an electric car anywhere in the country, a first step to allow for expansion of electric car use. 331dot (talk) 21:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Sure, but Estonia is 1/120 of the size of France. This isn't really that big a deal. Electric vehicles (and free ones) are prevalent across Europe, this is just a maths thing, tiny country so easier to allow electric vehicles everywhere. It's not newsworthy. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:07, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Size is not relevant; Estonia is the first sovereign country to do this. 331dot (talk) 21:10, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Sorry, size is relevant when the story intrinsically relates to the size of the infrastructure. Otherwise if Vatican City managed this "feat", it would be a bit of joke. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:21, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    One doesn't need a bicycle to get around Vatican City, let alone a car. This development enables something for an entire country that was not previously possible. 331dot (talk) 21:29, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    My example was an extreme version to demonstrate that Estonia is tiny in comparison to most sovereign states, and that countries like Germany and France have far exceeded this "capacity" already. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:43, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    You can't drive to every corner of Germany and France with an electric car; the capability is what's notable, not the actual capacity. 331dot (talk) 21:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Well with an open Europe, I'm looking forward to you demonstrating to me that I could drive my electric car from Tallinn to Russia, leave it at the border and make my way across. Or maybe down to the Latvian border. And in any case, as I've said before, providing full coverage for a tiny country is hardly newsworthy when many countries provide vastly geographically larger coverage, and for free!! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    You can make the same argument for the posting of the elections of sovereign countries. We don't post California Gubernatorial Elections, or Bavarian elections, or even elections for Mayor of New York City, and all of those have larger populations than some countries whose elections we post. It's still the first national network, even if there are larger subnational entities with networks. Whether it's free at point of use or not is irrelevant(somebody pays for it somewhere). 331dot (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
    Ok, thanks for that. Firstly the Vatican is too small, then Estonia isn't too small, then New York is too small.... And yes, free to use is quite important too, as if you're expecting the average Estonian to fork out for an electric car to make the most of the 100-odd charging points, then it's ridiculous compared to the 3,000 points in the UK, or the free-to-use vehicles in Paris. Whichever way you look at this, it's quaint, a DYK maybe, but not, by any means, an ITN. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:18, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    Bulgaria PM resignsEdit

    Article: Boyko Borisov (talk, history)
    Blurb: Prime Minister of Bulgaria Boyko Borisov resigns following days of protests over power prices and corruption triggering an early election.
    Alternative blurb: ​The prime ministers of Tunisia, Nepal and Bulgaria each resign.

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: Following below discussions it seems unusual circumstances warant posting. This was a result of nationwide protests and not a political gimmick. I believe we posted romania.. --Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Comment perhaps the last three PM resignations in the last day (Bulgaria, Tunisia and Nepal) can be summed up in a single blurb? I'd vote to support all three of them, if it came to that, but a condensed, "The PMs of three different countries resign within 24/48 hours of each other" would be better I think. (talk) 14:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Combining the three resignations in a single blurb is a good idea.
    • I have suggested this type of combined blurb before, and in principle the idea was accepted in the talk page. The purpose of ITN is "to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest," not to provide abridged news headlines. The prime ministers of '''[[Hamadi Jebali|Tunisia]]''', '''[[Baburam Bhattarai|Nepal]]''' and '''[[Boyko Borisov|Bulgaria]]''' each resign. Kevin McE (talk) 20:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    I would Support this idea as a good compromise idea. LGA talkedits 02:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose This isn't anything on the scale of the Arab Spring, but it is unusual circumstances. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 02:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose wait till a new one takes office (see cmt above). LGA talkedits 02:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support combined blurb - per Kevin McE and others. Good thinking; this is a fine direction to take the triple resignations, blurbwise, and I salute all involved. I have proposed Kevin's blurb on the alt line of the nomination. Downside is, we now have three articles to check for updates and/or improvements needed. If we can pull this off, it will truly be an ITN team effort! Jusdafax 02:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    The articles on Boyko Borisov and Hamadi Jebali each have a paragraph on the resignation, could do with a little more in each case, as for Baburam Bhattarai there is zip all so that would need urgent attention. Am off to post a note at the wiki project. LGA talkedits 03:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    What more? Its got pertinent info and its more than min?Lihaas (talk) 12:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    I did a bit of work on the Bhattarai article to update the lede but it was reverted by someone who said Bhattarai was still the PM after all, which may make this nomination moot. Can't look into this further at the moment. Jusdafax 19:12, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    Think this may be falling apart, Kiril Simeonovski makes a very good point below and in the cold light of another day it looks like this may not be as straightforward as it may appear. LGA talkedits 21:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Rex (talk) 17:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong oppose for the combined blurb since the three resignations have nothing to do with each other and occur in countries that are geographically distributed on three different continents with no strong ties between them. Importantly, there are three completely different reasons that caused each of these PMs to step down. It would have made more sense if all of the three countries were from a single region with the appearance of a wave of demonstrations followed with resignations but that is not the case here. Stylistically, it seems to be good to save room on the main page by making the merger, but this will only produce a pure manipulation by combining non-sense things.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support solely the resignation of Boyko Borisov as the protests over power prices in the country have been on a large scale for more than a week.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • This appears not to be, in Lihaas' words, a "gimmick" resignation. However, it appears the country would've called an election anyway within the year, it just got bumped ahead by a like 4(?) months; and it seems the election would be held within the near future. So I'm torn, but considering the likes of the women's cricket cup got in pretty easily, while this one is languishing is pretty embarrassing. –HTD 14:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I was seriously considering posting this but Borisov's article has two orange tags on the top and half of the article is a "Controversies", what makes it not a good material for Main page if highlighted. If the shape of the article improves, that's another story. --Tone 14:50, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    Remvoed the tag and conetent as a BLP violation (given the obama's articles bodyguard remove any actual criticism of him, th eallegation without justification are wholly inappropriate). should be eady now. And probs tunisia too nepal has issue though
    HTD, this is not a politicalgimmick, nepal i.s. this is a resultof people power PRTESTS.Lihaas (talk) 20:12, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    That is exactly what I said. –HTD 03:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 19Edit

    RD: Robert Coleman RichardsonEdit

    Article: Robert Coleman Richardson (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination
    News source(s): (NY Times)

    Article needs updating

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: I would think a Nobel Prize winning physicist should qualify under "widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field." --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support Clearly qualifies for DC #2. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral, but observe that "merely" being a Nobel laureate has not generally been considered sufficient (c 10 awarded per year, presumably die at same rate). Kevin McE (talk) 21:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] Armenian presidential electionEdit

    Article: Armenian presidential election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: Serzh Sargsyan is reelected as President of Armenia, main opponent Raffi Hovannisian claims victory due to alleged electoral fraud
    News source(s): NY Times BBC

    Article updated

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

     --Proudbolsahye (talk) 04:03, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Strong support. ITN/R. Presidential election in a medium sized sovereign country. Article has been updated, and is adequately sourced.--xanchester (t) 04:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose sympathetic as I am to such an ancient ant post-soviet state, this is just not anywhere near the level of notability needed to override the well-supported proposal to decommission ITNR. μηδείς (talk) 04:19, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
      • If by "well supported" you mean a 47% support for decomissioning and a 53% in favor of keeping it, you'd be correct. It'd be a rather odd definition of "well supported", but if you're going to invent your own idiosyncratic definitions for words, and not tell anybody you did so, you'd be correct. For the record, I'm one of the 47%... --Jayron32 05:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
      • While I support the proposal to decommission ITN/R, it has not yet succeeded. Until such time as it does, ITN/R remains in force and thus the notability requirement is automatically met. Neljack (talk) 06:30, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    Given ITNR is supposed to represent clear preexisting consensus, 53% simply doesn't cut it, does it? μηδείς (talk) 21:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support ITNR, but never a fan of mentioning anything other than results in the blurb, especially because half of all elections we post have fraud allegations now anyway. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 06:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    You are right, sir, but these are not just allegations. The man who came second presented a list of violations and have already self-proclaimed himself the winner. There is a high probability of a political crisis in the country that might, unfortunately, end like the last time, when 10 people died. I don't think you see this in many countries. -- (talk) 06:55, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    Posting generic blurb. The article is in good shape. In case there is some major development later, that can be another ITN story. --Tone 07:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Clearly no point in listing here, this was pushed to main page within 3 hours of nomination. What a joke. I don't care if it's ITN/R (which is more and more of a joke), but there was no chance at all for any consensus that the required update had been made, no consensus that the article was in the right condition to be presented at the main page. We're not Reuters, we can wait a few hours to make sure we get things right and professional. Apparently some editors here think otherwise. Pathetic. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    It's not written in stone, and can be removed if the article is of poor quality as you claim. Name calling is not necessary. 331dot (talk) 22:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    bangladesh protests/convictionEdit

    Article: Abdul Quader Molla (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Amid protests and calls for execution, Islamist Abdul Quader Molla is convicted for crimes committed during the Bangladesh War of Independence
    News source(s): [15]

    Nominator's comments: Pretty big conviction for a pretty big civil war. --Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Comment. We need an article to evaluate. 331dot (talk) 23:14, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment. From above: Please consider adding the blurb to Portal:Current events (the green box at the top of the date section) at the same time. NickSt (talk) 23:24, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    My stupid comp was cockuing up. I fixed it, but there already was a bold blue link.Lihaas (talk) 10:55, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

    Nepal PM resignsEdit

    Article: Baburam Bhattarai (talk, history)
    Blurb: Prime Minister of Nepal Baburam Bhattarai pending a new resigns pending a new election to write a new constitution.
    News source(s): [16]

    Nominator's comments: Instability in a country recentl emerged from civil war just prior to election. note i would wait to read more as some late news is saying it MAY be postponed. --Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    So if you recommend waiting, why did you nominate this now? Do you want to withdraw the nomination and renominate later when the event actually occurs? SpencerT♦C 20:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    The vast majority o f articles i read say he resigned but noe suggested it was put off so I wasnt sure. I thought others might now more. But do we not (sometimes we have) post changes in govt for sovereign states?Lihaas (talk) 10:59, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose As noted on the Tunisia PM, we generally do not post resignations if they cause an election. We wait until the election occurs. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose unless there is some unusual circumstance triggering the decision to resign. Shouldn't be ITNR either way. 331dot (talk) 03:39, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose see the well-supported discussion in favor of decommissioning ITNR at talk. μηδείς (talk) 04:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    That's irrelevant, and also inaccurate; this policy is in effect now, and support is barely 50% at best, hardly "well-supported". 331dot (talk) 11:14, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose wait till a new one takes office. LGA talkedits 02:29, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Unless there are huge protests, the resignation of a prime minister is not as significant of an event as the election of one.--xanchester (t) 01:30, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    Tunisia PM resignsEdit

    Article: Hamadi Jebali (talk, history)
    Blurb: Prime Minister of Tunisia Hamadi Jebali resigns after failing to form a technocratic government.

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: Instability wracked Arab Spring country without a working govt. --Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    Support, significant event with relatively trustworthy source in target article. Mikael Häggström (talk) 21:52, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    I don't think the resignation of a PM is ITNR.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Agreed; the next election might be, but this isn't. I call for removal of the ITNR listing. 331dot (talk) 03:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose We generally do not post resignations if they cause elections. We wait until the election occurs. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support notability as a significant event. There needs to be a decent prose update somewhere, could be in Hamadi Jebali or elsewhere. --LukeSurl t c 23:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC
    • Comment. The article does not discuss the resignation. I'm leaning oppose as I don't see some unusual circumstance prompting the resignation; this situation happens not infrequently; but I'm open to changing my mind upon updates and any additional information. 331dot (talk) 03:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support the revised alt blurb proposed below. Oppose. There's a single line in the article about his resignation. Article is in dire need of a substantial update. There's no discussion at all of the controversy over Chokri Belaid's assassination and how it relates to Jebali's failed attempt at forming a technocratic government and his ensuing resignation. The article doesn't even mention Chokri Belaid. I'm leaning towards a support, but only after an update that discusses the significance of this event.--xanchester (t) 04:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    updatedLihaas (talk) 11:14, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support highly significant resignation of a leader elected in the aftermath of the Arab Spring. -Zanhe (talk) 15:53, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Wait till the appointment of a new one. LGA talkedits 02:27, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment. I'm satisfied with the update, but the blurb still needs to indicate the event's significance. I propose as an alt blurb: "Prime Minister of Tunisia Hamadi Jebali resigns after failing to form a technocratic government, following protests over Chokri Belaid's assassination."--xanchester (t) 01:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] Correa wins re-election as President of EcuadorEdit

    Article: Ecuadorian general election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: Rafael Correa wins re-election as President of Ecuador.
    News source(s): BBC, NYT, [17]

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

    Nominator's comments: The article still needs a proper update, but the results are known and the main opposition candidate has conceded. --Nsk92 (talk) 00:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    Are you strongly opposing the nomination or the article? If there is consensus then it will only go up if the article quality is suitable. No need to oppose for that reason -- Ashish-g55 01:07, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    They are one in the same, the nomination is to place a link to the article, nominations should not be made on the hope that an article will be updated, ITN is not a race, get the article ready first then nominate, guarantees a speed confirmation, There is a tendency to view a ITN/R as a boilerplate support and often the quality of the article update goes unquestioned. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 02:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Nominations are made to gain consensus and while that happens in parallel the article gets updated. Elections are one of the few ITN/R where consensus is actually needed since there are just too many countries/elections all year long. Im not saying dont debate the quality of article, just saying no need to strong oppose based on quality right at start of nomination before we have any consensus to even post -- Ashish-g55 02:40, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Well it is on ITN/R, so the only thing that is of relevance here is the update, the prose is, to be blunt, awful, the sections on Democracy Code and National political organizations are barely coherent English, there is nothing on the actual campaign, what were the key issues in the campaign, the Opinion Polling section needs to be expanded on or just removed. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 03:46, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    No longer opposing this, the article IMO now just about scrapes over the line to be linked to from the Main Page, however it is still missing details on the campaign. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 21:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Article is sufficient and will improve. Notable event and ITN-worthy. Jusdafax 02:33, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • TBH I dunno where the hate is coming from. It's not GA-standard but is postable. Needs an update though. –HTD 03:14, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment - Since this article will be posted, I have already made a few improvements, and will continue on. LGA saw fit to triple-tag the article, which I find interesting in light of their strong oppose. Jusdafax 03:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Please try and assume good faith if you read my comments the only reason for my oppose is the quality of the article, it has nothing to do with the subject. If you (or others) can improve it (I don't know nearly enough about Ecuadorian politics to do so) then reason for my oppose goes away and I will support. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 04:03, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    I've removed the tags because there was no talkpage discussion and, in any case there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the article that would merit them. Tags are for serious problems, not just to note that there is room for improvement.
    The article does have an empty subsection for "parliamentary results", though. Formerip (talk) 10:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    I have reverted your removal, there are issues and do warrant the maintenance templates, I have detailed some above and Jusdafax has worked to address some of them. I have updated the talk page. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 10:44, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    The article has been improved, posting. --Tone 07:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] 2013 Belgium diamond heistEdit

    Article: 2013 Belgium diamond heist (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Armed robbers steal a haul of diamonds worth $50 million during a raid at Brussels Airport in Belgium. (BBC)
    News source(s):

    Article needs updating

     --Remember (talk) 19:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Update needed This isn't (as of this edit) in the three full paragraph form, but I can support it as notable when it is. μηδείς (talk) 19:40, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose, a blip without ramifications of any kind. In fact, it doesn't even deserve an article. Abductive (reasoning) 23:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, an exceptionally large theft, certain to become infamous. Jehochman Talk 23:51, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support interesting and newsworthy story. Secret account 07:01, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support as this is an unusual story. Some more prose would not harm, though. --Tone 07:20, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support highly unusual and notable crime, though the article is a bit on the short side. -Zanhe (talk) 15:50, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. The size of the theft is significant.--xanchester (t) 16:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Large diamond thefts are rare events. 331dot (talk) 16:35, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Unusual indeed. This sort of reminds me of the Lufthansa heist. Widespread coverage, definitely ITN. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I will post this the second that the article has three honest-to-goodness solid paragraphs as required by the ITN criteria. Support per significance is at a consensus, now we need the article to be at minimum standards. --Jayron32 18:20, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
      • And, it has been minimally updated, so it is now posted. --Jayron32 21:29, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 18Edit

    RD: Keiko FukudaEdit

    Sorry but this can't be posed as at the time of nomination the oldest entry is from February 12, and this person passed away on the February 9. As an aside it is a shame as it looks like it would have been a easy support.LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 00:03, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: Keiko Fukuda (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination
    Blurb: Recent death
    News source(s): NBC, Reuters, MSN, Japan Daily Press, New York Times

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.
    Nominator's comments: Worlds first Female judo master, landmark figure in terms of civil rights and martial arts, highest every ranked female judo practitioner, known as the "Mother of Judo". Died February 9, however this only hit the news in the last 24 hours. Besides the above websites, I've also heard this on radio news and seen it on television news. --Jayron32 23:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Procedural oppose: We list by date of death, already timed out, regardless of importance. Kevin McE (talk) 23:34, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    [Posted] RD: Jerry BussEdit

    Article: Jerry Buss (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination

    Article updated

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: Mr. Buss was the owner of the Los Angeles Lakers, the most successful NBA team in history. --Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support - Buss was highly notable and a star in his own right. I am not a fan of the team or the sport, but am well aware of who he was. Jusdafax 21:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose owner of a franchise? Seems popular in basketball terms but his death is attracting far fewer global articles than Richard Briers, so I'm not sure. At all. Do we have any precedents of "owners" being so significant to be listed at ITN? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Hi The Rambling Man. I posted a quote below from current NBA commissioner David Stern which I think shows how Buss wasn't just an owner, but had a real impact on the league. --IP98 (talk) 00:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The death of Jerry Buss, the owner of one of the world's most popular basketball team is huge, and probably will have significant implications for the NBA. Support Secret account 22:17, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose IMO a minimum starting point for even considering any listing on ITN is good global news coverage in this case I am not seeing coverage of this guys death outside of the US domestic media. As The Rambling Man points out, in the case of Richard Briers death there was a whole range of outlets covering not just the domestic English news sources. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 23:10, 18 February 2013 (UTC) Should have waited, now seeing the global coverage start to come in so moving to Support for RD entry. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 00:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Most famous owner in history of NBA. --Jayron32 23:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. The Lakers are one of the most notable teams in the NBA, and the NBA is of global importance. The NBA has a huge following in Europe and Asia, not just North America.--xanchester (t) 23:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support very important owner. Hot Stop (Talk) 23:59, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose not seeing any coverage outside North America, happy to change if this is demonstrated. Black Kite (talk) 00:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Reply [Guardian UK] [Times of India] Found these two in just a few minutes of poking around. Jusdafax 00:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Fair enough - not going to support just yet (as they're agency stories), but I'll strike my oppose. Black Kite (talk) 00:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Agreed if it was just those two but the BBC one does not appear to be so. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 00:47, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong Support per ITN/DC #2. Per David Stern "Jerry Buss helped set the league on the course it is on today," NBA Commissioner David Stern said. "Remember, he showed us it was about 'Showtime,' [18] Global story per BBC and Times of India coverage. Per the PDN #3 above we should not object to an " event only relating to a single country". If you read his article, and the referenced LA Times article, you'll see he was a major part of reviving the NBA in the 80s. --IP98 (talk) 00:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose unless there is compelling evidence as to how the owner affects the team other than providing a budget. Which of the death criteria is he thought to meet? Kevin McE (talk) 00:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    Reply Number 2. As the owner of the most successful, and probably most popular, NBA team in history, he was widely regarded in the sport of basketball. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment I don't think we have yet been provided with evidence that he "was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field." We need multiple sources saying he's a very important figure in basketball. If we get that I will be happy to support. And the article doesn't do a very good job of explaining his importance; it says little about how much impact he had as owner. The fact his team was highly successful does not tell us how much impact he had. If we are going to post, this needs to be rectified. Neljack (talk) 01:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Done (I think). I added remarks from Kobe Bryant and David Stern to the death section of the article. I fail at using inline refs and would love it if someone could fix my markup. There are also "tweets" from many current owners [19] here. --IP98 (talk) 01:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Thanks. Will now support. I think the Showtime article gives a good idea of his impact. If anyone is eager, that article would probably provide some good material to further explain Buss's impact and innovations in his own article. Neljack (talk) 02:17, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, wide coverage, very important individual in their field. – Connormah (talk) 03:09, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose I can see supporting the architect of the Twin Towers, but not the owner as such. μηδείς (talk) 04:44, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Also point out that at one point or another he owned the Los Angeles Kings (NHL/ice hockey), Los Angeles Sparks (WNBA/women's basketball), Los Angeles Lazers (MISL/indoor soccer) and I believe some other stuff. So he was represented across a couple sports. Kaiser matias (talk) 06:57, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: Jerry_Buss#Sports_ownership currently has zero references and Jerry_Buss#Early_life_and_business_career could probably use some more. SpencerT♦C 07:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose: Per Kevin McE. Not notable as a real estate investor, where he originally made his fortune. In addition, the owners generally don't have that great of an impact on a teams performance (relative to a player or coach, who's respective deaths I would consider more highly. I'm just not seeing specifically why his ownership was so impactful on the industry as a whole, as in something that he changed (as a comparison, Art Modell, another sports team owner who we didn't post, was instrumental in bringing NFL and the TV broadcasting industry together). SpencerT♦C 07:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Reply Hi Spencer, with respect, the current comissioner has stated "The NBA has lost a visionary owner whose influence on our league is incalculable and will be felt for decades to come". If you read the article Showtime (basketball) you'll get an idea of his importance. --IP98 (talk) 11:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
        • While it's cool to have that quote thrown around, it's pretty empty. It doesn't say explicitly what he did. In addition, some of the information in Showtime needs to be in the Buss article, because otherwise that's not there. SpencerT♦C 15:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment "The current commissioner says" is hardly a resounding neutral source. Like politicians, they can be obsequious in these circumstances. Reliable sources would be more convincing. Leaky Caldron 12:00, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose. I'm not really seeing the notability here. Was he really the first to have the idea to have cheerleaders and music at games? It's also certainly his right to direct how his team plays the game. Like Leaky Cauldron, some other sources would help. 331dot (talk) 12:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    Jerry Buss commissioned the Laker Girls in 1979 after he had purchased the Lakers. He believed a basketball game should be entertaining, and he was a big fan of college basketball.[1][2][3] Cheerleaders were not common in the NBA at the time, but Buss ordered the formation of the squad—a team of top female dancers who were as talented as they were sexy—as part of his vision for Showtime.[1][3][4]

    • Support Highly notable figure in NBA history. -- Anc516(Champs!) (TalkContribs) 12:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support NY Times headline uses the word "innovative" and I think that's appropriate. Innovative people should pass RD criteria. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:17, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    Not every innovation is noteworthy. Incredible to suggest that anyone who has ever been described as innovative in an obituary is therefore " very important figure in his or her field". Kevin McE (talk) 20:25, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • It has to be to reach the level where the NY Times puts it in the headline. I would say that someone described as innovative by definition is very important to the field in which they innovated. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Marking as ready. There's a rough consensus to post. Hot Stop (Talk) 22:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Ready removed; Jerry_Buss#Sports_ownership is still devoid of references. Also, I'd really prefer if the sentence in the article "He inspired the Lakers' Showtime era with his vision that basketball games must be entertaining" was expanded with specific examples (such as were mentioned in this nomination), but I'm willing to post once the referencing issue is resolved. SpencerT♦C 07:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Wow look at that! Someone who opposed the nomination filibusters it by tagging it for citations needed after consensus to post is gained! I'm re-adding the ready tag so a neutral admin can review it. Hot Stop (Talk) 13:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I don't appreciate your assertion that I'm filibustering the nomination, I clearly stated that "I'm willing to post once the referencing issue is resolved" and I just did. If the nomination was marked ready even after the referencing issues had been noted, the issues evidently needed to be pointed out in the article as well. This is no different than any of the other RD candidates that have had referencing issues. A [ready] tag is dependent not only on nomination consensus but also article quality. Best, SpencerT♦C 22:42, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Yes, Post As an oppose, I think this is supported and updated and should go up asap. μηδείς (talk) 22:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per above. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:01, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted. SpencerT♦C 22:42, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted for RD] RD: Richard BriersEdit

    Article: Richard Briers (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination
    News source(s): the Guardian

    Article updated

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: still working in 2012, only just reported EdwardLane (talk) 14:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose though prolific, there is no evidence in his article that he was widely regarded as a very important figure in his field. --IP98 (talk) 14:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support significant career, lead of own top TV show (filmed before the Queen) everything from sitcoms to Shakespearean tragedy, of similar stature to Larry Hagman and Jack Klugman, whom we listed. μηδείς (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support highly significant figure in British acting, both television and film (including some box office smashes), and voice artist for the epic Roobarb. Worthy of RD. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:43, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Not Updated I think this might go up rather quickly if it's updated but the article also has an unhelpful (unspecific) tag for references as well. I won't be able to devote a lot of time to this, so I hope someone else will devote a little, maybe our nominator? μηδείς (talk) 16:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I had a stab at adding a couple of refs, you're right the tag is completely unhelpful so I've removed it in the hope that any specific concerns can be individually tagged. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Have now added refs for most, if not all the more contestable claims, have tidied up the remaining refs, and expanded the death section a tiny bit more. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose If Mindy McCready is an oppose, how can this be a support? He had a long career, but by no means was he recognized as the top of his field, or at least I see no evidence of that. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
      • If I understand this comment correctly, you seem to be asking how can this nomination possibly get any support if yours isn't getting any? μηδείς (talk) 17:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per Medeis. Highly notable in his home country.--WaltCip (talk) 16:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Notable performer in television, stage and cinema. Few deaths of actors receive top billing on BBC 6 O'clock news. Leaky Caldron 18:07, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Not only high profile news in the UK either - TV News top story Australia, Entertainment news top story New Zealand, and also covered on MSN (USA), even local US news (Star Tribune Minnesota), US entertainment news Broadway World, not to mention Netherlands, BILD (major German news source), Globo (Brazil), Poland - and note, especially on these latter ones, that they aren't just reprints of press releases but actual articles in their own right. Black Kite (talk) 18:18, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Some of the views here are wildly overstated. Yes, he was once a popular sitcom star in the UK, but not by any stretch of the imagination a "highly significant figure in British acting". "Few deaths of actors receive top billing on BBC 6 O'clock news".... except on days when most of the BBC journalists are on strike. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
      • That's cynical and you have no evidence that it would have been any different on another day at the BBC. We have many sources for those institutions not on strike, or those which aren't in the UK (did you actually read Black Kite's post above?) that don't rely on your cynicism for Briers' notability. For the record, which views are "wildly overstated", in your opinion? It's worth reiterating that this is just to decide if Briers should appear on the recent death ticker, i.e. it would just say RIchard Briers, it's not a main blurb. Just in case..... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Limp support. His star billing on BBC 6 O'clock news may be partly explained by the fact that he was very much a BBC product. But hugely well-known and much loved. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
      • But Sky, The Guardian, Chicago Tribune, The Independent, Volkskrant, El Nuevo Herald, Kurier, Onet, Irish Independent, Mason City Globe Gazette, etc etc note his passing... Plus those that Black Kite has mentioned above. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
        • But I support. But I said "hugely well-known and much loved." Maybe I should oppose. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
          • (tickles Martin with a feather duster)... just suggesting you could be more than weak about it!! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • (edit conflict)Support getting coverage round the globe Chicago Tribune, ABC News. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 19:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Notable, ITN-worthy figure for RD. Jusdafax 22:05, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    While a few more reactions to his death would be nice, the update is good enough, and with clear consensus posting for RD. Secret account 22:22, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    I think an 8,000 plus update is sufficient. μηδείς (talk) 03:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 17Edit

    RD: Mindy McCreadyEdit

    Article: Mindy McCready (talk, history)
    Recent deaths nomination
    News source(s): [21][22]

    Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.

    Nominator's comments: Suicide of a country music star, top headline --– Muboshgu (talk) 05:32, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose RD. Not at the top of her field; if the article country music doesn't mention her, she's probably not that important in the field. SpencerT♦C 06:30, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral for RD, although the story is certainly in the news, even in the UK, international BBC news homepage has it as its third story, and it was one of around six news headlines on British radio this morning. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. I regard myself as a bit of a popular music fan/expert - but until this morning I had never heard of her. (I'm in the UK, if that matters.) Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Terribly sad, but that discography shows that she was not at the top of her field. Kevin McE (talk) 09:54, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Well this is a textbook example of "minor figure" which has been stated elsewhere on this page. –HTD 11:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - I can not see that she was at the top of her field. Not a worldwide known singer.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. I must agree with the other opposes here. 331dot (talk) 12:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak Oppose While this is covered globaby (,, et al.) none of the articles (or our own WP article) make mention of why this person was held in high regard in her field, so for that reason I can's support. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 23:20, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose I must agree with the others about her significance. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    Danica PatrickEdit

    Article: Danica Patrick (talk, history)
    Blurb: Danica Patrick becomes first woman to win a pole position in Sprint Cup Series history doing so for Daytona 500
    News source(s): CNN

     ---- Ashish-g55 00:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    I am very well aware that this isnt a Daytona win which would obviously be more notable but first woman ever to achieve this is still quite a feat in Nascar history. -- Ashish-g55 00:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose - Sports trivia. Possibly more suited to DYK, I think. --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Maybe if she wins, but as is this isn't really a feat. Although I fail to see why this would be suitable for DYK, where's the new or 5x expanded article, Bong? GRAPPLE X 01:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    My mistake. I'm not very familiar with DYK, but I wanted to offer the nom something a bit more constructive than just "sports trivia". --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:33, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    It's a shame that 2013 Daytona 500 was created so long in advance, and the actual race doesn't occur for 7 days so the likelihood of a 5x expansion in 5 days is virtually zero. There's a possibility that if there's not much expansion between here and next Sunday, and there's a lot interesting to write about during the race, a dedicated contributor could expand the article 5x and get it DYK worthy. Ryan Vesey 01:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I'll support once (if ever) wins her first NASCAR race, as a female winning in a male dominated sport would be of great importance for the feminist movement and in the sports world. But winning the pole position, while being a first, it is too soon to evaluate its legacy. Secret account 02:03, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. If she wins the race, that would be notable, but pole position does not guarantee that. 331dot (talk) 02:34, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment this is actually a pretty big deal and I think it's a good fit for DYK. On a personal note: NASSCAR driver, IndyCar driver, yoga, model, and actress?? Danica Patrick, where have you been all my life?? :) --IP98 (talk) 02:38, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support I've been thinking about this for awhile. There have been women in the Sprint Cup Series since its inception and none of them has managed to win a pole. This is a really big achievement. We often run events that the New York Times has failed to comment on. In this case, the New York Times decided that the event was sufficiently significant to merit an article. It's also been picked up internationally in Australia. When she becomes the first woman to win a race, we'll post again. Ryan Vesey 02:47, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose This is not ITN material, as others have said an interesting sports triva point (which will no doubt feature on an future set of Trivial pursuits questions) but not really that significant and not making news headlines globally, nothing on the, or LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 03:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Winning pole position is not winning a race, and that's lowering the bar too far for me. – Muboshgu (talk) 05:42, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose It's an achievement, but not nearly as big as if she wins the actual race. There usually isn't much correlation between winning the pole and winning the race. Now if she wins the Daytona 500, however, that's completely different and I would strongly support posting that. -- Anc516(Champs!) (TalkContribs) 15:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment it's brilliant that we're starting to recognise some of these kinds of story, but I'm afraid a pole position won't quite cut the mustard. I imagine as soon as she (or any other female) wins a serious level motor racing event (F1, Indy Car etc), then it will be a completely unanimous decision to post it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Well that's even better than a pole isn't it? Where's the debate? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:07, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • NASCAR is considered a serious level racing event. Secret account 22:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Withdrawn] Cypriot presidential election, 2013Edit

    Withdrawn by nominator. SpencerT♦C 23:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: Cypriot presidential election, 2013 (talk, history)
    Blurb: Nicos Anastasiades wins the Cypriot presidential election
    News source(s): BBC

    Article needs updating

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.
    Nominator's comments: ITN/R, just waiting for final clarification he's got >50%. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    He hasn't.[23] sephia karta | dimmi 19:41, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    Job done then. Re-run the nom in a week. Cheers, and thanks for the update! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:44, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    I have marked it as withdrawn on the basis of that last comment; by all means delete that and clarify if it is not the case. Kevin McE (talk) 21:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    No, quite so. I blame the exit polls. Ta! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    By "No", I take it you mean "Yes, it is withdrawn". Kevin McE (talk) 21:21, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    Yeah, but no. Of course, yes, it's withdrawn. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    2013 World Allround Speed Skating ChampionshipsEdit

    Article: 2013 World Allround Speed Skating Championships (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​In speed skating, Ireen Wüst wins the women's and Sven Kramer the men's title at the 2013 World Allround Speed Skating Championships, Kramer becoming the first man to do so six times since the tournament's inception in 1893.
    Alternative blurb: Sven Kramer wins the men's World Allround Speed Skating Championships for a record sixth time.
    News source(s): ,,

    Nominator's comments: I think Kramer's achievement in itself --- in a much more competitive field than his predecessors who won five overall titles --- makes this sufficiently noteworthy. --sephia karta

    • Comment: The article needs a prose update. SpencerT♦C 17:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support with suitable update. Probably in vain, as it's unlikely to make it, but as a skating fanatic I don't have a choice. Fgf10 (talk) 18:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Request clarification This seems to be some kind of heptathlon (well, quadrathlon) event, with scoring being by points accumulated over 4 distances. The times in at least some events seem far short of what would have been competitive in the single event world championships last year (are some rinks faster than others?) I'd need assurance that this combination of disciplines really is a season's goal for many of the major competitors rather than an occasional "novelty" event. Should we emphasise the single distance championships in Sochi instead if we want the real prestige event? Kevin McE (talk) 18:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    Yes, this is allround skating, the oldest form of skating championship, and most certainly not a novelty event. The times are slower because the championship was ridden in Hamar, which is a sea-level track. Altitude tracks like Calgary or Salt Lake City are much faster. The men's winner this year, Sven Kramer, holds the world records on both the 5k and 10k, but those were done at altitude. As far as prestige is concerned, it may be a national difference, in Europe it is most certainly at least as prestigious as the distance championships (in the Netherlands even more so), but I think in North America the singles are rated higher. Fgf10 (talk) 18:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose On the same day of the conclusion of the World Championships in alpine skiing and biathlon, this event is shadowed as simply non-significant in the world of winter sports. In addition, this is only a competition consisting two events which are attributed attention and notability far from the main World Championships in the sport that each year are held at the end of March. Hence, Kramer's achievement, albeit outstanding, is comparable to achievements in local or exhibition competitions in other sports.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I don't understand your comment only a competition consisting two events which are attributed attention and notability far from the main World Championships in the sport that each year are held at the end of March. The World Allround Championship is the most prestigeous of the season. Kramer's is literally a once-in-a-century achievement, no accomplishment in speed skating could be more notable than this one. If ever speed skating news should be included in ITN, it is now.sephia karta | dimmi 19:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I'm sorry, but that's simple not true. It is one of the main championships. It's just two different disciplines. And 'comparable to local of exhibition competitions'? Where do you get that from? Not only is it insulting to the athletes, it doesn't even make sense. Furthermore, presumably skating isn't popular in Macedonia, but is is also simply not true that it is "non-significant in the world of winter sports". Yes, it is popular in a limited number of countries, but in comparable number to for instance rugby. It is more widespread than some other winter sports such as curling or biathlon. Fgf10 (talk) 21:51, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
          • No, speed skating is not popular in Macedonia, but I'm one of those who follows the sport and perfectly knows what is the difference between each of the three World Championships that took place every season. You're right that this one is the most prestigious and the oldest World Championship in the sport, but it doesn't simply mean it's the most popular one with most followers or the one that receives most attention in the media. It's like to say that the FA Cup in football as the oldest and most prestigious competition in the sport is the most popular one that anybody is aware of much more than any other competition.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I meant that the World Allround Championship is not the main event in the calendar season with two other World Championships and the Single Distance Championships being the most popular one that each year receives much more traction than this one and consists of most of the Olympic disciples. The result is great for me from a viewpoint of a Kramer's fan, but it's really tough to consider it for inclusion on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I'm sorry, but that is still wrong, is is one of the main events in the skating calender, which also includes the sprint championship, and the single distance championships. And for the record, if it wasn't for the 6 championship record, I would not have supported this for the main page, as it is a niche sport for most of the world. Fgf10 (talk) 22:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
            • Please don't get it wrongly. I have nothing against the Dutch people and their sentiment to this sport, but the things we're discussing now here are known only by those who follow the sport regularly. Let's wait to see how the others will comment and vote for it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support A world championship in a major winter sport featuring an outstanding record-breaking achievement by Kramer. Alpine skiing and biathlon would also have strong case if nominated, but they're not a reason to oppose this. Neljack (talk) 20:51, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm pretty neutral on this one, but if posting, I'd cut out "Kramer becoming the first man to do so six times since the tournament's inception in 1893". It makes the blurb too long. LukeSurl t c 22:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Mainly for lack of update to prose in the article; other than the "Rules" section it is a list of stats, the article needs work before a nomination can be considered. As a general point, I cant seem to find any real clear explanation as to how the event works, the best I could find was World All-Round Speed Skating Championships for Men but that is two links away from the article and only if you click from the nav template at the bottom. Basically the article needs a lot of work. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 01:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support if the blurb is shortened a lot and only mentions Kramer. It's only ITN material because of his record sixth title for men (the women's record is 8). I have suggested an alternative blurb with 94 characters instead of 224: Sven Kramer wins the men's World Allround Speed Skating Championships for a record sixth time. I have mentioned the record in the lead of the bold article and added a link to samalog in 2013 World Allround Speed Skating Championships#Rules, for readers interested in the points system. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:12, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Notable record. High-level tournament. NickSt (talk) 02:44, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Looks like this a massive sporting event that's not getting the news. Only 855 Google News hits? Even UAAP volleyball (guess what that is) had more [24] Google News hits. –HTD 03:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] 2013 Women's Cricket World Cup FinalEdit

    Article: 2013 Women's Cricket World Cup Final (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​In cricket, the 2013 Women's Cricket World Cup concludes with Australia defeating the West Indies in the final.
    News source(s): BBC Sport Cricket country

    Nominator's comments: I think Cricket World Cup is in WP:ITN/R --Gfosankar (talk) 16:17, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Changed the blurb to point to the final. Both articles are updated. Black Kite (talk) 21:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support once updated fully. World-level competition in its respective sport, plus women's sport is under-represented at ITN so it's a nice addition to have. GRAPPLE X 17:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support as long as the article has a little bit more prose added. Despite not being in ITN/R, we should be more progressive here, and encourage these kind of nominations, as Grapple X says above. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:58, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support exactly the sort of sporting ITN we need. Given that it's every four years, it should probably be ITN/R. Front page sports news in a lot of countries, which is a major advance for the women's game. Black Kite (talk) 18:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose recurring event, not on ITN/R, with no evidence that this occurrence of the event is especially noteworthy. Recommend nom to ITN/R first. --IP98 (talk) 19:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Recommend throwing out ITN/R and base our decisions here on reason. Ryan Vesey 19:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • ITN/R needs an overhaul, and some standardized process for noms (similar to ITN/C) but for now it stands. --IP98 (talk) 19:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Since when did a recurring event have to be on ITN/R to be allowed to feature on ITN? Surely it's just the other way around, that ITN/R are automatically allowed given a decent update, this shouldn't preclude other regular events that the failing ITN/R system has yet to agree to. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment ITNR cannot be used as argument against inclusion on ITN. ITNR doesn't work like that. Any such opposes should be disregarded. -- Ashish-g55 19:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Reply what's the point of ITN/R then if any routine occurrence of a regular event can go up based upon the whims of the contributors at that time. ITN/R brings consistency that is lost when <<insert favourite sporting event here>> goes up this year, not next year, up again the year after that. --IP98 (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Exactly "what's the point of ITN/R". You can't just make rules up as you wish IP98, really. Time for you to take a break I think. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I stated my position. It's very clear. Participants are free to agree or disagree. I will not derail another discussion with you. --IP98 (talk) 20:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
            • It isn't clear at all, other than it clearly demonstrates that you don't hold the same understanding of ITN/R as the rest of the community. Any case, glad to hear you won't derail future discussions. In the meantime, the cricket article has come on leaps and bounds, all good! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • support if there's a decent article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:01, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I've given the article a basic prose update which appears acceptable. The scorecards need to be added, but that's not a reason to oppose, I think. Black Kite (talk) 20:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Done, pretty much. There's room for expansion, but that's certainly perfectly acceptable. Black Kite (talk) 20:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I helped Black Kite, we've now got a decent stab at a finals article which should be acceptable, certainly much more so than many of the stubs that seem to get accepted via an ITN/R vote! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:59, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    Support It has always been made clear that the absence of an event on ITN/R is not a valid reason to oppose it here. This has received extensive media coverage (I was pleasantly surprised, since women's cricket often doesn't get its due), and we need to feature more women's sport events. Neljack (talk) 20:57, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support - Nice article. An event which represents the international pinnacle of a sport. LukeSurl t c 22:04, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - I have added a talk page to the article, since the lack of it seemed a bit odd. I rated the article "start" since it is beyond a mere "stub" now, in my view. Jusdafax 22:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posting Article appears in good shape; consensus is to post. SpencerT♦C 23:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Post-posting futile oppose. Is women's cricket really that popular? Even Gaelic sports have more pageviews. IMO the only women's sports that are mainstream enough are women's tennis and women's golf... and probably women's football. There are no stats on the article on how many people were at the stadium, but it seems that it's not that big enough enough to host the last time the men's Cricket World Cup came into town, which probably means it's not that popular. –HTD 12:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

    63rd Berlin International Film FestivalEdit

    Article: 63rd Berlin International Film Festival (talk, history)
    Blurb: Child's Pose wins the Golden Bear at the 63rd Berlin International Film Festival.
    Alternative blurb: Child's Pose wins the Golden Bear at the 63rd Berlin International Film Festival.
    Article updated

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.
    • I believe this is ITN/R. Nergaal (talk) 08:44, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Correct - it is a ITN/R. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 09:24, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong support. Very Important film festival - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:02, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment. We do, however, need a blurb to evaluate and ensure that the article is sufficiently updated. 331dot (talk) 10:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support as one of the most important annual film festivals and please specify a blurb that the Romanian film Child's Pose (Romanian: Poziţia copilului) directed by Călin Peter Netzer won the Golden Bear.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:52, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per ITN/R. Blurb is same as what got posted last year. [25]. Prose update is about the same in Childs Pose and CMD. --IP98 (talk) 12:41, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose, there are so many film festivals (see List of film festivals), and I don't think this one is notable enough in itself for ITN. The Child's Pose article is currently rather a stub. Mikael Häggström (talk) 15:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    I suggest that this oppose is invalid, as the Berlinale is clearly included in the list of ITNR. Aaadddaaammm (talk) 14:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support per ITN/R. One of the larger film festivals, although not as prominent as Cannes. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the ITN/R appears to be the Golden Bear award, not the festival itself. As noted above, the subject of the blurb should be the Golden Bear winner, and it's currently a poor stub which is mostly plot and a cast list. Should also be noted the plot looks like a copyvio, being replicated elsewhere.... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    This sub-thread could have and should have ended much sooner. -- tariqabjotu 20:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
      • ITN/R is BIFF with golden bear in parenthesis. [26]. Last year the bold link was Caesar Must Die [27]. If there is a copyvio please add the appropriate tag to the article so that it can be addressed. --IP98 (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Perhaps I missed the instruction which told us all which of the two articles should be the subject matter for the blurb. Have removed the blatant copyvio. Still oppose based on the fact the festival isn't actually in the news, the only thing that really made the news was the Golden Bear winner. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
          • As I stated, last year Caesar Must Die was the bold link, which was the golden bear winner. south china morning post, reuters and la times if you're doubting notability. --IP98 (talk) 19:31, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
            • It doesn't really matter what was blurbed last year, where is the instruction as you have interpreted it? The Golden Bear winner is the important part of the blurb, and that article is not good enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
              • where is the instruction as you have interpreted it? What? --IP98 (talk) 19:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                • "Perhaps I missed the instruction which told us all which of the two articles should be the subject matter for the blurb". Please. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:37, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                  • I didn't cite any instruction. I suggested two blurbs, that's all. What are you on about? --IP98 (talk) 19:41, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                    • Are you not following this? Perhaps you're tired. You made up some rule about which item should be in bold and then when I asked where it came from you said "What?". Seriously, take some time out and do something else if you can't follow. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                      • "You made up some rule about which item should be in bold" I'm sorry? I did no such thing. Kindly provide diff, perhaps we're misunderstand each other. --IP98 (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                        • You provided this diff and stated the movie was bold linked. Doesn't look that way to me. The bold linked article should be the movie, not the film festival. Anyone who has supported the main page inclusion of the stub needs to re-assess. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                          • Ok, so I misread the diff. My mistake. How does that translate into "You made up some rule about which item should be in bold"? --IP98 (talk) 20:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                            • Just read what you wrote. Turns out you were mistaken, as are those who have voted to support a very weak stub. Perhaps ITN/R isn't clear enough here. End. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:19, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                              • No, not end. You've insisted that I "made up some rule about which item should be in bold" and demanded a citation for that rule. Twice. I made no such claim. Simply insisting that I re-read what I wrote isn't a response. I've re-read it. No where did I say "this is the rule on what to bold". Then you made the condescending statement "maybe your tired" and "do something else if you can't follow". Where did I write there is a rule? Where? Provide a diff please. --IP98 (talk) 20:22, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                                • You said "ITN/R is BIFF with golden bear in parenthesis. " You then contradicted yourself. At length. So let's just let it go now, ok, since you're getting too involved. The bottom line is that the movie should be the bold link (despite the fact it wasn't last year) and right now, the movie article is not good enough, despite anyone claiming "support per ITN/R". End II. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
                                  • ITN/R does have BIFF with golden bear in parenthesis. That's still not me stating any rule. It's a statement of fact. So where did I "made up some rule about which item should be in bold"? Where? You've still not provided a diff where I explicitly stated that there is a rule. Please provide the diff. Now please. --IP98 (talk) 20:31, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong oppose for now WP:ITN/R clearly points out that it is the Golden Bear that is the notable portion of the event. The bolded article in the blurb should be Child's Pose. That article is a stub that is in no way fit for the main page. If that article is improved (and while it's not necessarily applicable in this venue, I'm talking about a WP:HEY style improvement) then I support posting. The article needs a lot of improvement in addition to the introduction of enough information on the Golden Bear/Film festival aspect. Ryan Vesey 19:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong support. One of the most important international film festivals. Here it's rated the 7th most important ([28]), and here [29] it's second in the list, and according to our own article here it is the "largest publicly attended film festival worldwide". In 2011 Cannes was ITN with the film festival in bold, not the article film. The Berlinale's been ITN for the last 2 years, why not this year? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 09:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment If we do happen to bold the festival, I still oppose posting in the article's current state. The article hardly has any prose, surely there's more available than what exists right now. Ryan Vesey 15:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Conditional support of the alt blurb, but only if the article on the film is expanded and updated.--xanchester (t) 23:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Iff the article on the film is updated, this is a good example of what should be on ITN, but what cant be posted due to concerns with the articles concerned. I would go with the alt blurb also. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 00:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 16Edit

    [Posting] Blast in PakistanEdit

    Article: February 2013 Quetta bombing (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Over 80 people are killed and 200 others are injured in a bomb blast at a market in Hazara Town in Quetta, Pakistan.
    News source(s): (DAWN), RT

    Nominator's comments: Information may change as data received --Gfosankar (talk) 17:29, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose - Taking precedence from the Chris Dorner nom below, as the article itself indicates, this is a frequent occurrence in Quetta.-- (talk) 18:21, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    As you clearly know so much about it, when was the last bombing in Quetta with a death toll over 60? AlexTiefling (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    In January, apparently --IP98 (talk) 21:52, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Are you admitting that you're editing from yet another address? Alex's question was directed to the IP, not to you. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    I'm responding to Alex's question. This is a collaborative effort. You're welcome to submit a notice WP:AN/I if you believe I'm a sockpuppet. --IP98 (talk) 22:07, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Sorry, I thought you were replying on behalf of the IP. Of course, it wouldn't be AN/I, you know that. But noted, I'll keep my eyes open. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support This blast appears to be pretty notable on the grounds of its media coverage and the high death toll. We really don't need to count comments and votes that adduce own prejudices on the precedence that the story with Chris Dorner wasn't posted and that the scales for inclusion have been thereby raised which is not true.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Such a high casualty figure will generally be newsworthy. This has nothing whatever to do with the Dorner story. Seriously. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, but there should be an article about the blast.Egeymi (talk) 20:26, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support with an article on the blast itself. Event is notable for a high death toll due to (what seems to be) terrorism. 331dot (talk) 20:43, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support massive loss of life. Pitiful that IP is trolling around Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:57, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support iff someone creates an article on the event. It's not like biographies where an event is a new development in their life. If this event is significant enough for ITN, it's significant enough for an article. Ryan Vesey 21:04, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Shouldn't you be studying? :) --IP98 (talk) 21:48, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose A deadlier attack in the exact same region barely a month ago. Clearly Pakistan is facing an internal insurgency, and I see no reason to post every incremental update. Major attacks against government forces, major government offensives, political milestones, sure, but a car bomb in a soft target like a market place seems to be pretty routine for that region. --IP98 (talk) 21:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Additionally the bombings in January were several coordinated events, vs this single attack, puts it in the "tragic but not notable in the context of terrorism in Pakistan" pile. --IP98 (talk) 22:05, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Just a note, we did post those attacks on ITN as well. SpencerT♦C 23:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - an article for the blast needed.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:08, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Substantial death toll and extensive international coverage. Neljack (talk) 22:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong Oppose There is no article, if this event is of significance it needs it's own article, once there is one come back and it can be reviewed based on that but until that we should not consider it. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 22:40, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Comment: article has been created. -Zanhe (talk) 04:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, once there is an article with a proper update. High death toll. Nsk92 (talk) 22:46, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Article is up and reasonably fleshed out. Jusdafax 02:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Comment Huge background section is mostly boiler plate: another summary of a long running conflict. Bombing section is ok, could probably use another inline ref. --IP98 (talk) 02:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Opppose At best this should be a sticky for an ongoing cynical political conflict waged in supposedly religious terms. None of the attackers are people or their victims notable per se. μηδείς (talk) 03:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • There isn't enough going on for a sticky. Ryan Vesey 03:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Major attack, very high death toll. Front page news across the world. -Zanhe (talk) 04:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: The blast section needs some attention. I'm not sure what's going on with a hanging sentence that didn't end: Photos from the scene showed groups of desperate people rushing injured into ambulances, as [11][12] with nothing after it. Also, another inline reference for the section would be nice, if applicable. SpencerT♦C 05:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

      Done I have added a new inline ref to the 'Bombing' section as requested, and reordered the article sections for reading flow, by placing the 'Background' section lower down. I have also added some relevant material to the 'Reactions' section and added various Wiki-links. The article meets the requirements for ITN, and as I see consensus to post, I am marking it as ready. I have also made minor modifications to the blurb as the death toll is now over 80 and may grow still larger. Jusdafax 21:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Posted Article update is solid and there is consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 23:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 15Edit

    2012 DA14Edit

    No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 05:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: 2012 DA14 (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Near-earth asteroid 2012 DA14 will pass/passed Earth about 27,700 kilometres from surface.
    Alternative blurb: ​On the same day near-earth asteroid 2012 DA14 passes the earth below geosynchronous orbit, a meteor explodes over Chelyabonsk
    News source(s): NY Times
    • Weak oppose. Essentially an article about a non-event(an asteroid not hitting the Earth). Asteroids passing by the Earth actually happens far more frequently than is reported. We also have the event in Russia which actually had a significant impact. 331dot (talk) 13:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support This is the closest-ever predicted passage of a asteroid. It can be combined with the Chelyabinsk meteorite: "On the same day near-earth asteroid 2012 DA14 passes the earth below geosynchronous orbit, a meteor explodes over Chelyabinsk." μηδείς (talk) 14:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
      • The only problem is that the meteoriod and DA14 are pretty much said to be unconnected - though investigation is still continuing. Putting them together would artificially imply that they are connected events to readers not in the know. --MASEM (t) 16:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
        • It wasn't my intention to imply the two were connected and is irrelevant to the nomination itself. But there seems to be a total misunderstanding of the significance of the asteroid DA14 below. It is notable because it is the first such asteroid of such a size to be discovered ahead of time and predicted to make such a close pass. It's the prediction, size, and proximity that matter, not the fact that it didn't hit the Earth. μηδείς (talk) 20:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose and further oppose any subjective linking of two separate, coincidental events. Leaky Caldron 14:42, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose per Leaky Cauldron. The asteroid does not inherit ITNability from the unrelated meteoroid. This story is merely interesting; the meteoroid is highly significant. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support closest-ever predicted passage of a asteroid, as User:Medeis argues. But do not link to Russian one. Thue (talk) 16:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak support It's sort of a non-event, but at the same time it's the closest that an asteroid will have passed. Ryan Vesey 16:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong oppose of the second blurb. Ryan Vesey 16:59, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Also one of, maybe even the brightest near-earth asteroid observed, almost visible to the naked eye. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose a non-story and absolutely no need to conflate it with meteoroid story as we have no evidence that they're in any way related, blurbing like that would certainly imply some kind of unproven link. (Of course, if DA14 hits earth because the clever guys got their maths wrong (see Melancholia) then I'd support it being posted, I suppose....) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Mentioning of one Small Solar System body does not mean that every event related to such objects is notable. 2012 DA14 literally has no impact. Mikael Häggström (talk) 18:51, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose - I had considered nominating this even before the Russian meteor event happened. This is an interesting curiosity, but it's not really much of an event. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - not for itn.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:06, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the asteroid/meteorite (not an astrologist) that hit Russia puts this missing Earth entirely into some perspective. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:28, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Astrology has nothing to do with this. Perhaps you meant astronomy? Modest Genius talk 23:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Course if 2012 DA14 had hit Russia instead of that one it would've been much more powerful and lower altitude. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:42, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    [Posted] Russian meteorite explosion/showerEdit

    Article: 2013 Russian meteor event (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​A meteoroid explodes approximately 10,000 m over Chelyabinsk in central Russia, shattering windows and showering the area with debris.
    Alternative blurb: ​A meteoroid explodes approximately 10,000 m over Chelyabinsk in central Russia, injuring more than 400 people.
    News source(s): BBC, The age

    Article needs updating

    Nominator's comments: A meteorite exploding and raining debris is rather unusual. --MASEM (t) 06:56, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support - It's a bit too early to make an informed decision, but this looks something I can support. I'm just wondering if it was definitely a meteorite, or if it was possibly a satellite. As long as this isn't something mundane like a gas leak - and that doesn't appear to be the case - I agree that this is pretty interesting and unusual. --Bongwarrior (talk) 07:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - This article connects the case wit DA-14 indirectly. Also, the meteor shower happened at the approximate time of the projected fly-by. (talk) 08:34, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - I was skeptical, but then I heard this news story on the radio, and it is now on the front page of the New York Times. Article is a bit weak yet, but improving. This event impacted a wide area. Jusdafax 08:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong support Fall of a meteorite causing damage and injuring at least 400 people is pretty significant and something that we cannot evidence every day.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support great story and lots in it as an hook into an encyclopaedia. --RA (talk) 09:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. I added an altblurb, mentioning the over 400 injured, which seems much more notable than showing the area and breaking windows of the original blurb. Also I believe the correct term is "meteoroid", not "meteorite" as the NYT and the original blurb used (before I corrected it). The Tunguska event article also uses the term "meteoroid". Thue (talk) 10:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Events like this are pretty rare, especially when considering the number of injured. Very notable, indeed.--Droodkin (talk) 10:34, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support alt blurb What really sets this apart from other meteorites are the injuries. Fgf10 (talk) 10:41, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, some of the footage of this event is, well, staggering. Latest BBC update states over 500 injured now. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted. Ks0stm (TCGE) 11:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment We can simply update the blurb if the reported number of injured increases.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:12, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I note we have a free image of the trail of gas it left in its wake File:Chelyabinsk meteor trace 15-02-2013.jpg, and the ITN box is currently image-free... --MASEM (t) 14:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support posting the free image. μηδείς (talk) 14:42, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support posting the free image per Masem. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:34, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Heavens! Not only consensus, but absolute unanimity! When was the last time that happened on this page? (And let us be grateful this one was not as powerful as the Tunguska event.) - Tenebris 15:18, 15 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)
    • Comment. Injuries are now up to 1,000 [30]. 331dot (talk) 16:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • 1,200, just put meteor russia in a search engine. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The image would be a good addition. LukeSurl t c 00:48, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I was going to add the image, but in my opinion it doesn't look like much of anything when it's shrunk. It would be nice if we had a free image of the fireball to use. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:08, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support posting the free image, right now - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 09:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Could we mention the fact, that two meteoroids came inside the human area of activity on the same day? They are 'unrelated' as per their orbital parameters, but they are definitely related as per the time and place in the solar system in which they appeared. To say that they are completely unrelated is an over-interpretation. One asteroid entered the atmosphere and created damage to the planet, but the other one grazed the human sphere of activity, came inside the geosynchronous orbit, this was the closest observed asteroid flyby ever. This is a rare coincidence as can be. (talk) 09:54, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The wording for the current blurb is quite long as-is; do you have any potential suggestions? SpencerT♦C 23:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    "about 1500" is marginally shorter and more updated. Drop the "central"? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:44, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 14Edit

    [Posted] 2013 meat adulteration scandalEdit

    Article: 2013 meat adulteration scandal (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​In an EU-wide scandal, horse meat and pork are found in food products labeled as beef.
    News source(s): On-going: BBC, New York Times among many other

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: On-going scandal which started small and was assumed to be localised, now EU wide. --RA (talk) 21:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support because it affects many countries, has throwbacks to BSE, demonstrates the stupidly complex (and potentially hazardous) delivery chain of meat within Europe. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • "Naturally expect oppose from those in the US etc who have never heard of it" Why would you say that? --IP98 (talk) 21:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Could you two continue your customary flirtation somewhere else, please? AlexTiefling (talk) 21:47, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Other than this being as repulsive to Westerners as finding there's puppy meat in your hamburger, is this really important? μηδείς (talk) 21:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      It sort of is more important because many meals have been found containing pork, which is clearly unacceptable to Muslims. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Good point. (Jews too, of course.) I'd echo what other users are saying: this appears to be a very wide-ranging scandal. It's affected sales in the UK and the Republic of Ireland, and suppliers from France and Luxembourg to Romania. The pig aspect is overlooked but important. And it looks like the Irish government knew for six weeks and didn't make their knowledge public. There's also persistent questions about the effect of a horse tranquiliser called 'bute', which may have found their way into the human food chain (as opposed to another horse tranquiliser, 'K', which enters humans more directly). The whole thing's a massive fustercluck; it looks like a lot of trusted firms have been flogging dead horses. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Jews go to Kosher providers who cut the animals necks and salt the meat personally. The EU horse-free stamp has never meant anything. But thanks for the concern! μηδείς (talk) 22:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    It's good to know that you speak for all British and Irish Jews, Medeis. How very generous of you! AlexTiefling (talk) 23:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    If you're going to bring up the EU Stamp sect of Jews it's up to you to provide a reference, not me. μηδείς (talk) 23:09, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Um, you're the one who mentioned an EU stamp, and no-one mentions sects until you did just now. I just asked you not to pretend to speak for all European Jews, as to whether they all shop at separate Kosher shops. (Hint: I shop in the Kosher section of my local Sainsbury's.) What the hell sort of reference do I need to ask you not to make sweeping statements on subjects of which you are manifestly ignorant? AlexTiefling (talk) 23:38, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    The "Please, won't someone think of the children?" ploy in reference to Jews is new for ITN, but here are all the google result for "jews concerned""horse meat" eu. μηδείς (talk) 23:47, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    ────────────Medeis, this is absurd. All I said was "Jews too, of course", in reference to Muslims not wanting their beef adulterated with pork. You've created this massive distracting tangent by challenging my aside. I am not sure what part of what I've said is rebutted or tackled by your excessively-specific Google search. I don't know where you're going with this. I am quite tired of your pointlessly derailing tangents and high-handed know-it-all attitude. AlexTiefling (talk) 00:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    Well, I personally don't know from Muslims. But I understand they have Halal butchers, just like Jews have Kosher butchers. Nor do I know if such orthodox butcheries are illegal in the EU and if only EU crats can give EU stamps. But in the US anyone who cares can go to a real Kosher or Halal butcher, who can be sued for fraud if he lies about his business. How stating this amounts to offensive all-knowingry on my part is beyond me. You still haven't given a single source about Jewish concern for this in Europe beyond your imagination.μηδείς (talk) 03:36, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    Here ya go Medeis, CNN stating "January's discovery of pig DNA in beef products is of particular concern to Jews and Muslims, whose dietary laws forbid the consumption of pork products. Jewish dietary laws also ban the eating of horse meat". We learn something everyday, eh? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • This is not just one burger. It's not just burgers from one supplier. It's not even just burgers from suppliers from just one state. It's lots of food products. From lots of suppliers. In lots of shops. Across lots of states.
      It's looking like an EU-wide conspiracy. But, in a more profound sense, it is important because it exposes how little we know where our food comes from - and even what it is - not only food consumers, but even food suppliers. God knows how long we've been eating horsemeat in all kinds of products from cheap burgers to frozen lasagne ... and all across Europe. --RA (talk) 21:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      And last of all, the package wasn't marked "may contain horse meat" (or puppy meat) which means both some level of fraud and a failure of the food safety regime. --IP98 (talk) 21:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - The article is in decent shape and this is a blurb ITN readers can really sink their teeth into. Jusdafax 21:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support I'm actually quite surprised this hasn't been here sooner. I had thought myself of putting together a nomination for this, but I was having trouble coming up with a big "wowser" moment. This has been in the news for weeks, with many repeated, ongoing stories, but it's lacked that one big attention-grabbing "event" that many people seem to think ITN events need, news items that go one for a long time but with no singular "event". Given the widespread opposition to the several times the Senkaku Islands dispute was shot down for lacking the big, attention grabbing issue (despite the fact that the dispute has maintained a relatively constant presence for several weeks) is why I didn't think this one had the chance with the regular crew here. However, on the merits of the verifiable criteria (as opposed to personal opinion) with a topic being in the news, and having a good Wikipedia article to point to, I can wholeheartedly support this. This is an ongoing thing, it's continuously in many news sources, and it's got a decent article. I can't think of why this shouldn't be on the ITN section. --Jayron32 21:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Clearly a notable, wide-ranging scandal affecting millions. 331dot (talk) 21:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment as an encyclopedia, should we be using words like "scandal" in our blurbs? I think not. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • It's encyclopedic if that's what it is being referred to as(which I don't know a wide enough range of sources to know if that's so or not). We shouldn't use our own language, either way.331dot (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - this started off as a UK-only story, now it's spread across Europe. The issue isn't just horsemeat, as pigmeat has also been found in meals that are supposed to be halal. The real issue isn't that horsemeat has been made available for human consumption - there's nothing wrong or illegal with that and it's delicious and cheap - it's that its being passed off as beef. Mjroots (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose personal shock that one may have eaten horse sounds more emotional than anything else. Unless someone was poisoned or died or a huge conglomerate is bankrupted or someone like Branson or Murdoch or Trump is convicted this is about as enchanting as the floating toilet story. μηδείς (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      I think the point is that this entirely undermines the process by which meat is tracked from "farm to fork" throughout the whole the EU. Sure, most of us can get over eating a bit of horse, but some can't, and some instances of contamination involved pork being included in meat products that Muslims had eaten in good faith. The contamination potentially affects half a billion citizens in the EU. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      (edit conflict)You're not seeing the issue here. Let me ask you two questions: (1) What did you eat for dinner this evening? (2) Did you? The scale of this scandal means those two questions need to be asked by half a billion people (population of the EU). --RA (talk) 21:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    That's called activism. WP is not an investigative or regulatory agency, our wishes notwithstanding. The story we would be reporting is, "people nauseated by imagination without specific personal evidence." μηδείς (talk) 22:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    This article is not "activism", it is a huge scandal [31] that is still on the news a month after it broke out and affects most of the EU. We tend to post scandals that affects so many people, that unless it is being seen as gossip/tabloid or too centric. Secret account 22:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I didn't say the article was activism. I said our posting this because it is important to do something about this is! activism. See Wikipedia:Activist. μηδείς (talk) 22:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support this is obviously a big deal. The EU has outlawed BST and are pushing for the labeling of GMOs. I agree with Jayron though that it's hard to draw a line and come up with a good blurb to post. Ideally some EU member state will release a detailed and scandalous report which can be put into the blurb. --IP98 (talk) 21:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Obvious Support while it been news for a couple of weeks already, this is a huge scandal that is rapidly changing, and considering the area we are talking about, not no third world country. Secret account 22:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, a big story in Europe. Nsk92 (talk) 22:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose as written the nomination seems stale to me. Maybe a sticky would work though. Hot Stop (Talk) 22:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Continent-spanning food adulteration scandal. News every day for weeks in several countries. Can be tied to today's arrest of three people in the UK if we need a hook to hang the posting on. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - if we wait much longer, we'll be on to donkeys. Oh, hang on, we are. And apparently all driven by the needs of the Romanian economy - who says the tail isn't wagging the dog? (or maybe that's next.) Martinevans123 (talk) 23:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support This has become much more widespread than it initially appeared. To those who are saying that it's just about parochial prejudices against eating horse meat (and I personally don't have any objection to horse meat), I would reply that this is about fraud - passing one thing off as another. Neljack (talk) 23:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I've marked this ready since the article is good, and support, while not unanimous, is fairly strong. I'll leave to another admin, who hasn't voted, to review and make the final decision. --Jayron32 23:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, since both significant and not ordinary story. Egeymi (talk) 23:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong support (This is User:Ryan Vesey) So I put myself on a script enforced wikibreak to get some reading done, but I can't not support this. I'd suggest adding that pig meat was found in the meat as well. While the horsemeat has the yuck factor, the pig meat is of religious significance to a large number of people. Ryan Vesey 23:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. Reluctantly. I wanted to oppose just so I could vote Neigh!!!. But it's a decent-sized story. If your meat pie gives you the trots, now you know why, at least. Formerip (talk) 23:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted.David Levy 23:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Blurb question: According to the article, the contamination was discovered 15 January. Was it officially announced today? The blurb makes it seem like the contamination was discovered within the past few days. I can't think of any alternate suggestions, or do people think it's fine as-is? SpencerT♦C 23:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • p.s., post-posting, unfortunate there are no strong images in the linked article. But then we all know what a horse looks like, I guess, some even what it tastes like. Martinevans123 (talk)

    Buffett buys HeinzEdit

    This story now predates the oldest item on the template. LGA talkedits 07:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: H. J. Heinz Company (talk, history)
    Blurb: Berkshire Hathaway purchases Heinz for $28 billion.
    News source(s): BBC, Economico, El Mundo, Chicago Tribune.

    Article updated
     The Rambling Man (talk) 18:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral I agree with the nom in that the deal is comparable to the airline merger, so I wouldn't oppose its posting. However, I'm not giving it full support because unlike the airline merger where there is a large restructuring and re-branding process that will occur (USAir will fold into American Airlines), it looks as though it's just a change of ownership for Heinz (correct me if I'm wrong). -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 18:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Yes, perhaps, it's the size of the deal that's newsworthy. It's made news in the UK (the biggest food industry deal in history), unlike the airline merger, that's why I thought it was worth a punt. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Unopposed It's certainly more interesting than the airline merger. μηδείς (talk) 19:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Huge business deal involving two well-known and influential companies. -Zanhe (talk) 20:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support but leave off the part about Warren Buffet. Yes, he's the most famous and majority shareholder, but it isn't his company any more than it is any of the other shareholders of this publicly traded company. The blurb currently implies that is sole owner of the company, and he isn't. --Jayron32 20:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Fair point, the focus is probably Heinz being bought, so reworded accordingly. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I've temporarily struck my support pending the proper update to the article. We'd need 5 sentences in the article body itself, we as of now have a single sentence in the lede section only. Something in the "21st century" section perhaps. This is important enough, IMHO, but the article needs to be of minimum standards. --Jayron32 20:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Yeah, as the template above clearly states, article needs updating. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support once update sufficient Another very big deal involving the acquisition of a well-known company. Neljack (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Question: Is this finalized/absolutely certain to happen? (Or anything after this point basically procedural to approve it officially?) SpencerT♦C 03:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose, this is a condiments company, change in the form of ownership will not impact consumers in any significant way. At least the AA/US A merger has real world repercussions. Abductive (reasoning) 22:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Oscar Pistorius charged with premeditated murderEdit

    This story now predates the oldest item on the template. LGA talkedits 07:47, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: Oscar Pistorius (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​Olympic runner Oscar Pistorius is arrested as a suspect in the Valentine's Day shooting death of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.
    Alternative blurb: ​Olympic runner Oscar Pistorius is arrested as a suspect in the shooting of death his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.
    News source(s): The Guardian Al Jazeera RTE CBC

    Article updated
     — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 12:26, February 14, 2013
    • Oppose ITN is not for gossip / tabloid news. --hydrox (talk) 12:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    A murder is hardly routine gossip. Pistorius is not a celebrity, i.e., "a person who has a prominent profile and commands a great degree of public fascination and influence in day-to-day media" - he's an Olympic and Paralympic athlete who is not in the news for much else. None of the sources are tabloids either. -- (talk) 12:58, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    He's a celebrity (well recognized individual) who is in the news for doing something that is entirely unrelated to his cause of fame. I don't think it differs in any way from any of the other individual tragic violent deaths that happen on Earth every day, every hour. It's only in the news because of the celebrity factor. Ergo, it's tabloid news / celebrity gossip / whatever you want to call it. --hydrox (talk) 13:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak support. Clearly of international interest, he is the world's most high profile Paralympic athlete. However at this stage he has only been charged with murder [32]. Innocent until proven guilty, even on wikipedia. Suggest blurb Athlete Oscar Pistorious is charged with murder, or something equally neutral. yorkshiresky (talk) 12:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose per Yorkshiresky mostly. It really doesn't feel right cause of the innocent until proven guilty thing. I would rather post a verdict (whether that be acquittal or conviction) than the fact he has been charged. Ks0stm (TCGE) 12:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. He's a suspect, not a convict. Let's not cast blame prematurely (if he did do it then there'll be a trial to report on further down the line). GRAPPLE X 12:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose I agree with Grapple X. If a trial comes up guilty, then it probably worth posting as the significance of the subject too great to ignore. Secret account 15:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support That he was arrested is a fact, we don't have to worry about BLP in reporting that, it's a rare event, at least outside the US, regarding a highly notable person with a good article. The time to post this for reader interest is now, not when it gets to the appeal after the third mistrial. μηδείς (talk) 16:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Enough. Let's stay on track. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 00:30, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
      • Comment One dead is really rather run of the mill, unfortunately, and not to be crass about it. I am leary of setting a precedent: Become a runner, kill one person, get yourself on the front page of wikipedia. --IP98 (talk) 18:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Are you really concerned that people will dedicate themselves for many years to a field of expertise to the extent that they are world renowned so that they can then get their names on the Main Page of Wikipedia by committing a murder? Kevin McE (talk) 19:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Sorry, Pistorius was front page news before his girlfriend was murdered, unlike the case you are irrelevantly quoting, where, to quote the same thread, the killer was a nobody. μηδείς (talk) 19:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
        • See O.J. Simpson. Cheers!! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Hi TRM, I tried to view the history of Template:In_the_news but it doesn't go back to 1995 so could you please tell me what relevance O.J. Simpson has to this nomination? I look forward to your reply. Salut!--IP98 (talk) 21:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
            • So sad, so desperate. Take it from me, it's better to stop embarrassing yourself in public. I've done it enough, but you're taking it to the extreme. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
              • You invoked the spirit of OJ Simpson, I thought maybe we had posted that story, but the template doesn't go back to 1995, so I've asked you to explain why you mentioned him. I don't feel embarrassed at all. Please, let us know what OJ has to do with this nom. --IP98 (talk) 21:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
                • Clearly I credited you with more intelligence that I should have! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
                  • Your overtly hostile insult aside, I'm still waiting for a simple explanation of what OJ Simpson, almost 20 years ago, has to do with this nom. --IP98 (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
                    • Your overtly obtuse responses aside, it's an analogy, a similar case, something that is like something that has happened before, something that people can relate to. You remember OJ? He "killed" his wife and her lover, allegedly, right? He was an all-American hero right? It's like a "precedent". Pre-ce-dent. (not President). This story is "like" that. Ok, getting there yet? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
                      • I think so ... you're suggesting that if Wikipedia had existed 20 years ago, (or that if the murder occurred today) then the story would be posted to the Main Page of Wikipedia because the perpetrator is American? --IP98 (talk) 21:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
                        • I'm suggesting that a person who had starred as an athlete and been featured regularly on the television (and movies for OJ) then yes, he'd be prominent. And when he was accused/convicted (in a civil court) of murder, if was news. It didn't matter if he was American, it was just news. Just like this, it's news. If you're adopting a position that is so obtuse to not see an analogy here, I'm done with you on this. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support there is no doubt whatsoever that this is in the news. Certainly the BBC has talked of little else all day, even putting the horsemeat saga into the shade. Covered across the whole world if a simple Google News search is to be believed. He goes to court to be formally charged tomorrow. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Comment the US has seen a football player convicted of murder 18 months ago, murder by US Atheletes is far less common than the sad murders by South African athletes, press coverage or not. Posting this would be really a revisit to the original crime. This is "interesting" and "shocking" but just one of those things, trying to "catch" (or shoot) a perp, and something most of the world perceives as being commonplace in the US South Africa these days. And from a technical perspective, there's no good reason this "perp" should have his own article. --IP98 (talk) 18:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Pardon? I'm not sure, perhaps you shouldn't be editing right now. "there's no good reason this "perp" should have his own article"? You must be joking? He's an international athlete, an Olympic and Paralympic athlete, not an ex-cop from LAPD. Wow, the more you type, the less you give. Impressive. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong support per international covarage. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 17:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Blurbs I have added two possible blurbs, not they say arrested as a suspect, and mention shooting death, not murder, all of which are neutral and incontrovertible facts, not a presumption of guilt. μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strong support per international coverage which goes beyond any regular coverage. Definitly for ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Strongest possible oppose one dead. "Celebrity" suspect or not, this is a non-event. --IP98 (talk) 18:19, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Comment when Lance Armstrong was posted, it was because the cheating scandal had ripple effects throughout the cycling world. This case, while tragic, is the all too routine case of a domestic dispute turning deadly. --IP98 (talk) 21:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Enough. Let's stay on track. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 00:30, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Had that "one celebrity" been American it would have already been posted. True.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:22, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Why do we even bring up nationality in ITN nominations? What's the point? -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 18:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    1) That is pure speculation and 2) it's totally irrelevant. Two wrongs simply do not make a right. This is totally a non-event. Absolutely zero notability beyond the minor celebrity status of the suspect. --IP98 (talk) 18:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Um, are you, IP98, disputing that this is in the news? Perhaps where you live it isn't in the news? It is, elsewhere, across the whole globe, an historic and important para-athlete known across the world (even in the US, thanks to Nike) has been accused of murder. We could wait until tomorrow to see his plea, but it's not a "non-event" in terms of being in the news. I think perhaps some people here have lost sight of what "in the news" means. I agree with the comments above, if this had been OJ or Carl Lewis, it'd be accepted by certain quarters without debate.... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    "Um, are you, IP98, disputing that this is in the news" The irony of you making that statement, after deficating all over the California sniper story below, is just ... wonderful. I may get it printed on a "demotivational" poster and put it up in my cubicle. --IP98 (talk) 19:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Freaky, you want something I've said "in your cubicle"? Sounds perverse. Also, not sure what "deficating" means, perhaps it's "talking sense to avoid the usual commonplace guncrime bullshit"? Could you clarify what your comment does to assist this discussion? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Sorry, no, by defecate I meant piling oppose onto a story with major regional impact and coverage on the grounds that it's not a high enough death toll, while reciting the childish and mildly racist refrain that gun murder is a common occurrence in the United States and is therefore not newsworthy, then just two days later propping up a story whereby a minor media frenzy was created when an athlete was accused of a single murder. I think Tariq said it even better below. --IP98 (talk) 21:03, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Utter bullshit. How dare accuse me of "mild racism", I'm stating facts. US fanboys went nuts at an ex-cop being accused of killing three people, one of whom was a cop. We see spree killings in the US all the time. Three major incidents in the last half-year? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. This story has an entirely different context. You'd be insane to think otherwise. This story involves an Olympic/Paralympic athlete who is legendary for transcending his disability. The US cop story featured a sacked and disgruntled LAPD officer who had a grudge. Entirely different context. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Please, just stop. This "if it happened somewhere else" BS has got to stop. You know darn well that if this had occurred in the U.S., we would have had to contend with snide remarks about gun violence in the U.S. and statements like "if it happened in South Africa, this wouldn't be posted". Such double standards are apparent when we compare this nomination to the LA shootings below. Here support is coming (rightfully so) because it's in the news, while below opposition, including from The Rambling Man, comes because the event reported in Southern California is supposedly an everyday occurrence in the U.S., where murder and violence run rampant. No one has pointed out that the murder rate in South Africa is among the highest in the world, nearly seven times that in the United States. No one has suggested that this shouldn't be posted because of that, and yet, if this were a U.S. story, we'd have to wade through speeches about the problems of the United States. So, cut it out, because you're wrong. -- tariqabjotu 19:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I agree with the sentiment to stop this bullshit "revenge voting", but I entirely disagree that this can be compared to the most recent of US mass shootings. South Africa does indeed have a high murder rate, but that is entirely irrelevant when you're discussing the fact that an Olympic athlete kills his own girlfriend in a gated community, not a disgruntled individual going off on one. Really Tariq, I thought better of your arguments in the past, but this one is beyond weak. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    See distinction without a difference. -- tariqabjotu 20:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    See real life. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Tariqabjotu, you can't say that someone "is wrong". We are both aware of the double standard, the facts are clear had this been about an American athlete of similar notability this would have been posted. What you are refering to is the US school shooting's debate and that is not the same as in this case were we have a highly notable athlete who shoots his girlfriend. If anything, you are wrong here.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    No, actually, I don't think the facts are clear at all. The comparison to the OJ Simpson arrest was made above, but there's little evidence to believe that would have been a shoo-in if the story about the LA police officer isn't sufficiently notable. What leads anyone to believe a slow car chase through Los Angeles would be news, if a standoff in a cabin is just hype? What leads anyone to believe an athlete arrested for murder in the U.S. is notable, if a U.S. police officer virtually admitting to killing multiple people is not? And what makes you believe the simple fulfillment of an arrest warrant in Southern California would get posted easily, if a million-dollar, multi-day manhunt across two countries is just sensationalism? Nothing, really, except when it bolsters a reason for supporting a nomination from the developing world. This has nothing to do with the Newtown school shooting; we need to look no further to find the double standard I'm speaking of (rather than the one you are speaking of) than the events of this past week. -- tariqabjotu 20:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I think perhaps you are too close to some of these articles to promote them (or otherwise). What's the point in you going on about a "million-dollar, multi-day manhunt across two countries" when it's just one mad guy being chased by cops because he was accused of killing one cop and a couple of other people, when you then think that a world-reknown Olympic athlete who is accused of shooting his girlfriend dead isn't worth the discussion? You've lost the context. We (the world) are sick and tired of US gun crime stories (hence the lack of world interest in your cop killer) but are naturally inclined to be interested (hence in the news) in a story about a disabled athlete who has featured in both the Paralympics and Olympics who is accused of shooting his girlfriend (on Valentines Day, but that's an aside). Double standard? No, we're just sick of the systemic bias towards US shootings which seem to happen every couple of months. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Thank you for your comment. There's no reason for me to say more. -- tariqabjotu 20:52, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Thank you indeed, hopefully you won't get too involved in promoting (or otherwise) these articles which seem to have worked you up too much. Thanks in advance. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Trust me; your twice-stated advice is going to have no effect on my actions here. -- tariqabjotu 21:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Trust me, your clear involvement in some of these stories will have a dramatic effect on how your actions are judged. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Remind me again of the last time I cared how my actions were judged here. Admins often get flack for acting upon (generally posting) nominations that aren't unanimously aligned in one direction. I do not care enough about my Internet reputation to give a damn, especially when the judge is someone with the passion and propensity to misinterpret that you've expressed in this subthread. If you have a problem with that, take it up in the appropriate forum -- i.e. not here. -- tariqabjotu 21:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Oh, I wasn't expressing any desire to do anything other than remind you that your recent edits here have shown a distinct bias. No worries, you keep on keeping on Tariq, you're doing okay, but stay cool and neutral. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Interesting case of going from Olympic hero to suspected murderer. Lots of media attention. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 18:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose I don't see how this is notable enough to post but the shootout and firefight at a cabin in Southern California following a killing spree and subsequent manhunt isn't. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Because a sacked psycho cop going nuts and being accused of killing three people in the US and then being burnt to death by the sheriff and his men is commonplace. A legendary Olympic and Paralympic athlete known across the globe for breaking down boundaries being accused of murder is far from commonplace. Perspective. If it helps, think OJ. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Commonplace? The situation in So Cal was commonplace? I don't even know how to respond to that aside from throwing up my hands and walking away. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Muboshgu, one of the least productive comments I have ever read.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:09, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Gun crime of this nature is commonplace in the US. The sooner you acknowledge that, the better. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
            • Oh I'm well aware that it is. That incident was unique, though. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:31, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment regardless of the outcome here, I think the slant on "Valentines Day" in the first blurb suggestion is too tabloid, it's suggestive and unnecessary for an encyclopedia. Perhaps just stick with the alt blurb or a variant thereof. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral I'll admit that this is in the news; however, I fear that posting this would be a WP:BLP issue. Per WP:CRIMINAL we must assume innocence until proven guilty. If Pistorius was a suspect, but didn't commit the crime, there'd be major problems with our having posted it. That said, sources are not saying he's only a suspect, they are saying he's been charged. The fact that he has actually been charged is what keeps me from opposing, but I'm still only neutral on the issue. Ryan Vesey 18:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Agreed, as I said, he's in court tomorrow, perhaps we make the decision then, if he pleads not guilty to murder/manslaughter then we probably ought to hold off. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I'd be fine with that. His girlfriend has an article, I see it's got a notability tag. I haven't checked to see what my thoughts on her notability are. That said, if she is notable, there's a possibility that Reeva Steenkamp is murdered... could be the blurb. It avoids the BLP issue; however, it also creates the side issue that her murder isn't necessarily in the news, the in the news aspect is the fact that Oscar Pistorius was charged. I'm just throwing the thought out. Ryan Vesey 18:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I agree the girlfriend article will fall foul of the criteria, and rightly so (unless new news presents itself). The Rambling Man (talk) 19:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
            • Also I don't think we can say that she was murdered unless and until Pistorius (or someone else) pleads guilty to murder or is convicted of it. For all we know, he may argue that it was manslaughter, suicide or accidental death, and he could be successful. Neljack (talk) 22:11, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose We usually do a good job of avoiding celeb news. The event itself (a murder, apparently domestic) is not rare enough to be on ITN; Pistorius may be well known, but he is not important. If he is incarcerated, the only impact will be different winners of races that, outside the once every four years Paralympics, garner very little general interest, and some adverts on South African billboards will feature a different face marketing phones or sunglasses. Kevin McE (talk) 18:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • You're right about the outcome, but I see this like the OJ case. And we all know that was significant enough for ITN had ITN existed back then (and with historical hindsight etc etc). Would you be amenable to seeing how it goes tomorrow in court when he makes his plea? He's not just a Paralympian, by the way, he's the only disabled athlete to succeed in the non-Paralympic Olympics, getting to the semi-final of the 400m. This is hardly "celeb news", more a "cultural icon who has defied disability to succeed news" item. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I would regard the OJ thing as notorious, but in no way significant. Total media disproportionality, and I can see the same happening here. I'm hoping that ITN can remain, as we usually have, immune to the fusion of news and Hello Magazine. Kevin McE (talk) 19:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Agreed, but it's undeniable that this is in the news and it is significant beyond Pistorius being a regular athlete, OJ was an "American hero", Oscar is an athletic "god" because of what he's achieved, the barriers he's broken, etc etc. And yes, in due course, I suspect Oscar will be "notorious". But I accept that's speculative, of course. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Beckham signing for PSG was in the news, dispute over custodianship of Michael Jackson's children was in the news, Cameron leaving his kid in the pub was in the news: all sorts of personality driven drivel has been in the news. ITN has a proud tradition of not being drawn into it. Kevin McE (talk) 21:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Not sure that any of your examples really compare to an Olympic athlete who has transcended disability boundaries shooting his girlfriend dead, but we'll see. If you really believe this to be "drivel", I'm surprised. Tomorrow is another day. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Today the BBC headline in regard to this is that he "wept in the dock": that is pretty much the definition of media drivel. Kevin McE (talk) 00:07, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    I see this like the OJ case. And we all know that was significant enough for ITN had ITN existed back then [...] I would have probably opposed posting the OJ case when he was arrested for exactly the same reason (celeb. gossip). I would have supported posting the verdict. At this stage we know very little of the case at hand. You seem to be suggesting that this will be like the OJ case. Nobody knows at this stage, and claiming otherwise is WP:CRYSTAL. --hydrox (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support We have a very good article about Pistorius, and it would be nice to highlight that article on the main page, given that this is a story that is in the news all over the world. Readers of Wikipedia from many parts of the world are likely to have heard this story, and it would be nice if we highlighted out article about him to provide them with some additional reading. --Jayron32 19:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral This should definitely wait until his guilt/innocence is determined. -- -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 19:09, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Very simple, ITN is not for posting arrests. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 19:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose An arrest in this context is not front page material. Not suitable for ITN doktorb wordsdeeds 19:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Massively notably sporting individual, think Lance Armstrong, Beckham, Bolt; Pistorious is not far behind. This is world wide news, headline all day on BBC. Blurbs are both poor, grammatically wrong. Leaky Caldron 19:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Neutral I'm torn. Make no mistake, I think putting this up prior to a trial would be in poor taste. However, anyone with a passing interest in sport is aware of the story, so provided that we communicate his plea, I don't see the potential for harm to the subject. With that out of the way, this is huge – far outside the ordinary cycle and worthy of significant coverage in the encyclopaedia regardless of the outcome. So in summary, my head says that this is clear-cut ITN material, my heart says that posting would be grubby and premature. —WFCFL wishlist 20:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I guess it depends what he says tomorrow in court? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:46, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Until he's convicted, if indeed, he is guilty. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 20:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Presumably if he admits to being guilty tomorrow, this position will change? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - Sensationalist story and inappropriate at this phase - if there is a court trial and ruling, perhaps then. Those with BLP concerns raise an interesting point, but for me a Front page blurb on this figure now is a step in the wrong direction for ITN. Jusdafax 20:58, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Not in the slightest "sensationalist", actually just proper tragic. Pistorius hasn't indicated that he will deny this crime yet, we'll see tomorrow how he pleads in court. Then you can bang on about "sensationalism" and "inappropriateness". The Rambling Man (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppse He has been arrested. Not charged, as yet, as far as I know. Wait until/if he is charged. --RA (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Whether or not this is in the news around the world seems kind of irrelevant given that argument has been used and ignored for countless items in the past. This is tabloid news, and this guy cannot really be compared to the likes of Bolt and Armstrong because he did not win Olympic gold and, I'm assuming, won't have the history and record books of the sport drastically rewritten because of a potential conviction. Furthermore, he has yet to even appear in court and I think it would be a huge mistake to post this before he is even convicted of a crime. It may have all just been an accident, so posting this is also premature. --PlasmaTwa2 21:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - innocent until proven guilty. If a conviction occurs, then we should revisit this issue. Mjroots (talk) 21:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose posting the arrest; if convicted, then it could be posted. It's certainly notable when someone who drew fame and attention during the world's premier sports event gets into serious trouble. 331dot (talk) 21:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose The criteria for ITN direct us to assess the event's "significance", not the interest in it. While there's clearly lots of interest in this, I struggle to see that it has much wider significance. Neljack (talk) 23:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. The arrest on suspicion of murder of someone who is the most significant figure in his field *in history* is not significant? WTF? Plus, how long is it since South Africa, a significant country for whom en.wp is the home Wikipedia, got an ITN mention? Formerip (talk) 23:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Suspect has not yet been convicted. We do not want to prematurely post incorrect information (yes, the blurb is neutral and correct), but an arrest for murder in and of itself is not notable enough. SpencerT♦C
    • Oppose I came here to support, if it had been nominated, but the strength of the oppose arguments has swayed me. If he's convicted at a later date, that's the time to run it.  An optimist on the run! 08:28, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose trial by Wikipedia. Obviously, law enforcement wants credit for this big catch, but a person is innocent until proven guilty. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 09:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Pistorious has "strongly rejected" the murder charge, so I guess we should put this to bed, because otherwise it's speculation and certainly, as noted above, runs the risk of becoming a tabloid-esque trial by Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose, minor figures in sports kill their girlfriends with alarming regularity. Abductive (reasoning) 21:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    He is not a "minor figure". He doesn't have to have a large medal haul to be a "major figure", he merely has to receive a lot of attention or do something unusual to draw attention in his sport(which he has). 331dot (talk) 16:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Pelé; not minor, David Beckham; not minor, Muhammad Ali; not minor. This guy? Minor. Abductive (reasoning) 16:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    Utter rubbish. There are dozens of sources saying he's the most famous paralympian, the most famous South African after Nelson Mandela, the best known runner in the world after Usain Bolt. Try not to let your odd reasoning get in the way of objective sourcing. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    (edit conflict)Twice named in Time magazine's list of the 100 most influential people in the world. Leaky Caldron 16:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    Why do you suppose they named him to their list? Hint; it rhymes with uncritically neglect. Abductive (reasoning) 21:19, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    American Airlines/US Airways mergerEdit

    Insufficient consensus to post at this time; wait until merger officially occurs and is approved for consideration at that time. SpencerT♦C 05:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Articles: American Airlines (talk, history) and US Airways (talk, history)
    Blurb: American Airlines and US Airways announce a merger that will create the world's largest airline.
    News source(s): [33], [34]

    Both articles need updating
    Nominator's comments: The boards of both airlines have approved the merger. The official announcement will be later today - my suggested blurb presumes that we will wait for the official announcement before posting. ----Bongwarrior (talk) 01:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support blurb pending article creation or updates to existing ones. Jusdafax 02:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment I am inclined to support this either now or when the deal is complete, as opposed to announced (but not both), if the choice is now then it will need to wait till the official announcement and the article(s) (or new American Airlines and US Airways merger is created) and updated with details. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 02:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    see oppose below. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 23:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Big news in the airline industry. It's the third merger of it's kind since 2008, however. They keep trying to one-up each-other to be the "world's biggest airline". I find it odd, however, that the Delta-NWA merger was not posted, yet the United-Continental merger was posted. No idea what will happen this time. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 04:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose It's basically this or bankruptcy (from the source: "The deal caps a turbulent period of bankruptcies and consolidation") it doesn't indicate any sort of growth or innovation worth showcasing. Some execs will get buyouts, ticket prices will increase and less competition will mean fewer choices for the consumer--i.e., same old same old. μηδείς (talk) 04:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support pending updates and changes to existing articles. Only question is, what is the new airline to be called? A better blurb would be "American Airlines and US Airways announce a merger to form the world's largest airline JoeBlogs Airline" if that is possible. - Shudde talk 08:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Strike that - should have been more careful. A blurb that clarifies that the new airline will be called American Airlines would be good though. - Shudde talk
    • Support, after the boards make the official announcement later today. Creation of the world's biggest airline is highly notable, regardless of their reasons and motives for merging. Nsk92 (talk) 09:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Creating the world's biggest airline is sufficiently notable. Neljack (talk) 09:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support in principle, but I'm wondering if we should wait for approval by US antitrust regulators and the judge involved(which seems likely, but still). 331dot (talk) 10:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose for now. The Dell LBO debacle is still a bit too recent. We posted that at the same stage and it is now looking probable that it will not go though, at least in the form that was announced. That shows why we have WP:CRYSTAL and why we don't jump the gun on these things. 3142 (talk) 13:14, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - There is a very high probability that this will be trustbusted.--WaltCip (talk) 14:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Can you provide a source for this probability? Nothing I've read suggests this. --Bongwarrior (talk) 03:36, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait Support once approved. Unlike the Dell buyout (which was far less of a debacle than a damned bus crash), this is subject to regulatory approval, and will make news again once approved. --IP98 (talk) 15:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support- Similar to United merger, just bigger. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 17:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support Huge deal that will create the world's largest airline and affect millions of travellers. -Zanhe (talk) 20:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Due to concerns about whether it will really happen. I'm a bit tired of all these "biggest merger of all time" ITNs. --RA (talk) 20:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I'm a bit tired of all these "most important athlete in <<sport>> of all time" ITNs, yet here we are.. --IP98 (talk) 02:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    Brilliant contribution. Of course, RA's concern is entirely valid, there will always big a "biggest airline" in the world, does this news story actually progress it significantly or is it just a statistical nudge up the ladder? As for "most important athlete"... I'm not sure when that ever featured at ITN, perhaps you're referring to Oscar Pistorius, the most prominent Paralympian in history who is currently accused of murdering his girlfriend? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    Thank you for acknowledging the brilliance of my observation. Of course, I was referring to Sachin Tendulkar batting 100 centuries in cricket, or Lionel Messi scoring the most goals in association football in a calendar year. Both utterly arbitrary milestones in a narrow classification of their fields, and both with praise heaped upon them. Tendulkar was actually posted, Messi, mercifully, was not. --IP98 (talk) 16:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Hence why this is called "In The News", not "What IP98 finds interesting". The Rambling Man (talk) 16:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    Thanks :-) --IP98 (talk) 17:23, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose at this time, more sources are now availiable on this and it looks like there are quite a few dragons to slay before this is final, support when the merger is completed. LGA (was LightGreenApple) talk to me 23:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose until the deal is final. Even then I don't much care for these business ITNs. Abductive (reasoning) 21:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    What we personally "care for" is not relevant unless you have specific reasons for not doing so. 331dot (talk) 16:48, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose until it does actually happen. A long way to go by the sounds of it. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    February 13Edit

    February 12Edit

    2013 Southern California shootingsEdit

    Articles: 2013 Southern California shootings (talk, history) and Christopher Dorner (talk, history)
    Blurb: No blurb specified
    News source(s): [35][36]Dorner's personal manifesto

    Nominator's comments: Dorner has killed 3 people associated with the LAPD this month. The manhunt for Dorner has been called one of the largest in recent American history, and they've apparently found him and are engaging in a shootout now. A good blurb would probably indicate his capture or death. --– Muboshgu (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Support, an interesting (intense?) and unique (and terrible) story. This may sound crude, but it sounds like a movie, and the repercussions and historical impact are likely to be notable. Also most read-about story on the BBC right now. --Kawaii-Soft (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, It probably should have been posted a while back, since it wasn't I was planning on waiting until he was caught. Even if he happens to get away, it's a significant enough event related to this to post. I think we need to say "the suspected gunman" not "the gunman". Two deputies were wounded in this shooting already. Ryan Vesey 22:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Good point re: "suspected". I fixed that. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:08, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support posting upon capture or death of the suspect. I'm listening to the police band and live news feeds. They've got him pinned down in Big Bear right now.--WaltCip (talk) 22:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support note there is a heated debate regarding the merging of the articles w/no clear consensus. IMO since ITN posts events, only the event should be bold. I won't lose any sleep if a posting admin disagrees. --IP98 (talk) 22:23, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I tend to agree with only bolding the event, but like IP98 I won't lose any sleep if we bold them both. Ryan Vesey 22:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Update needed The socal shooting article shows the manhunt is ongoing. No real info about the shootout in the donner article. I have no idea: is he captured? dead? Holed up? What? --IP98 (talk) 22:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Barricaded and exchanging fire. This has not yet reached its conclusion, so the update is not yet sufficient. We can guess that Dorner will not survive the day, but exactly how it ends is not certain. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:39, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the UK has seen a "cop killer" (two female officers shot and hand-grenaded) plead guilty today, the murder of British cops is far less common than the sad murders of US cops, manhunt or not. Posting this would be really a revisit to the original crime. This is "interesting" and "shocking" but just one of those things, trying to "catch" (or shoot) a perp, and something most of the world perceives as being commonplace in the US these days. And from a technical perspective, there's no good reason this "perp" should have his own article, as noted by the various maintenance tags that the above supporters have clearly disregarded while supporting this article for the main page. Lacking. I would also urge the potential promoting admin to wait until the rest of Europe/Asia etc wakes up to determine if this minor, insular event in the US warrants main page inclusion, to avoid an absolute systemic bias. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, although (unfortunately) such events are common in the US. It is widely covered by significant international media outlets.Egeymi (talk) 22:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - after the guy is caught or killed.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. I hate to sound callous but when we generally judge disasters by body count, I don't see why we shouldn't treat deliberate killings the same—three shootings, not at the one time, doesn't seem as newsworthy to me as, say, a 20-fatality crash or such like, which we have turned down in the past. Plus TRM has a point about these not being that isolated as events, globally or locally. GRAPPLE X 22:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Worse than that, this is the fallout from the original crime. This is "chasing" (and no doubt killing) the perp. Not ITN on an English-speaking global scale. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Not at all like a bus hitting a truck, right? --IP98 (talk) 22:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. There are some crime stories that transcend the limited nature of being a crime story and in some significant way affect the national discourse about something or make significant political impact. E.g. the Trayvon Martin story was one of these, in affecting the national discourse in the U.S. about race and the "stand your ground" laws. But the Dorner story is not it, at least not yet. For the moment it is just a highly publicized police chase/manhunt. Unless it becomes something significantly more than that, I don't see it as fitting for ITN. Nsk92 (talk) 22:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • With all due respect, the conversation did not change after the Trayvon Martin shootings. There was media buzz over it for a month or so, but no significant long-term impact.--WaltCip (talk) 22:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
        • Perhaps the Trayvon Martin story was not a good example in the INT context, but, say, the Newtown shooting story pretty much immediately changed the national discourse in the U.S. about gun control. Nsk92 (talk) 22:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Alright, how's this for a "national conversation" - since the shooting, there has been a social media outpour of support for the shooter[1]. You will not get that with a common cop killer in the UK.--WaltCip (talk) 23:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. I might support when Dorner is caught/killed, but not an intermediate step in this story. Resolute 22:49, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • He's barricaded in the cabin in the midst of a gun fight. He's got nowhere to run. This will be the end. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:42, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment to The Rambling Man and Grapple X :: So let me get this straight: A bus crash, a routine traffic accident, with tragic consequences == OMG support. The conclusion of a crime spree which has seen innocent people shot by police in an international manhunt, yawn, boring, some cops got shot in the UK so who cares. Really? Please, please please point me to WP:ITN/MinimumDeaths so I can figure out exactly what the benchmark is for inclusion. --IP98 (talk) 22:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      Actually you might notice I don't line up to support crashes either, but merely pointed out that they feature a greater loss of life and are often passed up. Is this or is this not the case? GRAPPLE X 23:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • There was just a huge flare-up about too much focus on loss of life with the nor'easter. Dorner is referred to as the most wanted man in america (or something similar) at [37], [38], and [39] among other sites. Ryan Vesey 23:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment This story is not of only US interest. The Australian (this also refers to Dorner as America's "most wanted man") The Telegraph, Daily Mail, The Guardian, and El PaísRyan Vesey 23:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Shootouts with gunmen who've killed several people are, regrettably, not that rare, particularly in the United States. I'm pretty sure we don't post most of them. Can people provide some explanation of why they think this one is particularly notable? Unless this can be persuasively explained, I tend to think this is a dramatic but fairly transitory news phenomenon, and I will oppose. Neljack (talk) 23:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • This shootout is unlike others in the past. Most murderers are not ex-cop/ex-military. Most murderers don't release a manifesto taking on the LAPD. Most murderers don't have $1,000,000 awards offered for information that leads to their capture. Most murderers aren't referred to as the most wanted men in America. This is the largest manhunt in LAPD history. There is nothing average about this event. Ryan Vesey 23:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure of the relevance of the fact is an ex-cop/soldier. I suppose it might make him more dangerous, but I would have thought that any mass murderer would be regarded as pretty dangerous. I'm not sure issuing a manifesto makes a mass murderer more notable. Has the manifesto had much effect? Has it, for instance, garnered much support, or prompted others to copy him, or provoked much debate? The size of the manhunt and the reward do suggest a somewhat great notability than most people who kill several people, but on balance I still oppose. It's getting massive news coverage in the US because it's so dramatic with the standoff going on, but I stand by my judgments that it is a largely transitory news phenomenon. International coverage isn't that big - despite the drama, it's not leading BBC News, al Jazeera or Xinhua world news. Neljack (talk) 00:41, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Less coverage or notability than a bus hitting a truck? That's in the template now. A bus hitting a truck. You supported that based on death toll, but there is no WP:ITN/MinimumDeaths. This resulted in an international manhunt, in addition to all the items mentioned by Ryan Vesey. I just don't understand.... --IP98 (talk) 01:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm sorry that you don't understand why I consider an incident involving the deaths of 53 people to be more notable than one involving the deaths of four or five people. Of course, there's no threshold of deaths, each nominations falling to be considered in light of the circumstances of the case, but the death toll is a highly relevant consideration. Neljack (talk) 02:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I don't understand why you find an incident involving a massive police manhunt, crossing borders, police shooting innocent people, and a highly trained suspect less notable than a bus simply hitting a truck. --IP98 (talk) 10:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • It's probably down to apathy vs empathy, it's commonplace for gun crimes to occur in the US, there's no shock involved for most of us. So a few more police were involved than normal (as a result of them chasing a "cop killer") and a larger than normal reward was offered (no big deal) and borders were crossed (really? unless you mean Canada, a state border is hardly notable...!) and he was a former cop ("highly trained..."!!) ... Meanwhile it's very shocking for most people to see over fifty people killed in an incident involving just a couple of vehicles. Anyway, we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • He's referring to the fact that it crossed into Mexico [40]Ryan Vesey 21:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment Note that the shootout resulted in another death of an officer. Ryan Vesey 23:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment In addition to the unique situation, this is also the first time that an unmanned surveillance drone has been authorized for use against a civilian in the US. Obviously not blurb worthy but important to the developing story. --MASEM (t) 00:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support upon the capture or death of Dorner, which seems imminent. This isn't just a one-off cop killing, this is a former cop killing other cops on a mission of revenge and has published a manifesto alleging it is due to racism, a major issue in the US. 331dot (talk) 01:15, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose per The Rambling Man. The job of the police is to engage in such cases anywhere in the world they occur, but there is nothing that sets this apart from the numerous other similar cases in the other countries. It's pretty clear that this is a local news with no impact on anything at all. Importantly, the United States is not one of the countries where this is pretty unusual and rare to warrant its inclusion; shootings on this scale occur at least 2-3 times a year.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 01:17, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Three dead is really rather run of the mill, unfortunately, and not to be crass about it. If this were West Virginia I doubt it would be such a big story, and the social media angle is probably blowing this way out of proportion. I am leary of setting a precedent, kill three people, go on twitter get yourself on the front page of wikipedia. That being said I see there is some support here and if there's a lot of interest outside the English speaking world, like with the French Synagog shooter then I could change my mind. μηδείς (talk) 01:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment When did death count become a deciding factor? The fact is that this is in the news, period. It doesn't matter how many people have died. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:12, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Lots of things are in the news; that is not the criterion. Per the criteria for ITN, we have to make a judgment regarding "the significance of the developments described in the updated content." Neljack (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
      • And this has major implications for the LAPD beyond the death count. Dorner's dismissal is being re-investigated. Charges of racism against the LAPD date back beyond Rodney King, and this is shining a spotlight on it once again.[41] – Muboshgu (talk) 02:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    Major implications, Muboshgu? This was murder-suicide-by-cop that played out big in the media because it happened in a media town. Dorner's accusations of racism are about as relevant as his support for gun control, Barack Obama, and Chris Cristie, and as rational as his decision to clear his name by killing the children of the man who defended him when he was being fired. Did I say Chris Cristie? Yes. From the madman's manifesto: "Gov. Chris Christie. What can I say? You’re the only person I would like to see in the White House in 2016 other than Hillary." This is not significant. It's tragic and pathetic. Make my soft oppose above a firm one. μηδείς (talk) 02:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    Dorner held the LA area in a great amount of fear, and there is fallout beyond the deaths. His dismissal is being reopened, though I'm sure the police chief just hopes to exonerate the department.[42] I don't care what it says in his manifesto, I haven't read it. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    Here's our link to his manifesto. It's worth reading if you want to quote sources like you did about growing support for the deceased. μηδείς (talk) 03:21, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment The title for this nomination is misleading. What is in the news, and thus is the updated content in question, is the shootout, not the murders that have occurred some days ago. So people are saying that a shootout in which one police officer has been killed should be in ITN. Neljack (talk) 02:36, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Update The LAPD says they have Dorner's body.[43] – Muboshgu (talk) 03:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
      With this update, I'd be happy to change my oppose to an RD support for Dorner, but I'm still unchanged as to the full blurb either way. GRAPPLE X 03:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I am absolutely 100% in opposition to an RD listing for Dorner. Ryan Vesey 03:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Great news, but we don't post people to RD unless they are important in some field. This guy is like the executed Indian terrorist we just discussed, a nobody. μηδείς (talk) 03:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • He's important in the field of crime. There is no rule that the RD is just for nice people. 331dot (talk) 10:21, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose - While Dorner was not your average murderer and did indeed hold the LA region in fear, I don't think this is quite significant enough on an international or even national level. Swarm X 03:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment I have removed the blurbs as the reports of finding Dorner's body are not true. Feel free to write a new blurb/new blurbs. -- tariqabjotu 04:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Per Mushoshgu. ITN isn't as simple as counting bodies. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 04:36, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Article is terribly written. A well written article is hard to do, especially with breaking news. Auchansa (talk) 05:27, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support I think there are several aspects of this story which make it far more noteworthy than a simply "cop killer" story people which people have called it. The killer - an ex-cop and military reservist with several medals - has posted a manifesto online, was the subject of the largest manhunt in LAPD history (a manhunt which may still be going on since I don't believe there has been any confirmations of his death), and during the mahunt the LAPD accidentally attacked several citizens who they mistook to be Dorner. When it is all added up I believe this is sufficiently notable for ITN. --PlasmaTwa2 05:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose Sorry but I am not sure how an article on the person meets WP:BIO1E (probably why it's up for a merge) and also not seeing what the lasting significance of this event is (as per WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a newspaper), but then to be objective, the US has a little under 12,000 gun related deaths per year (excluding suicides) so 3 is not that significant for the US however they are caused. LightGreenApple talk to me 11:41, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Weak oppose per Swarm. Ks0stm (TCGE) 12:21, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose International interest - yes, intenational significance - no. Agree with The Rambling Man's summary above. CaptRik (talk) 13:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment All of us are going to look like fools for not posting this when the inevitable copy-cat crimes start popping up.--WaltCip (talk) 14:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Why?! Surely main page prominence on Wikipedia will encourage these "inevitable copy-cat crimes" you predict?! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:05, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Shootings on this scale are not rare in the US. The fact that the criminal was a former police officer does not add any significance to the incident. There will be no lasting impact or encyclopaedic value. Modest Genius talk 14:44, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support when we have a good blurb; this is something readers are likely to look for more information about given the amount of news coverage. Whether or not we want news sources to cover this, they are, and readers are likely to be looking for additional, encyclopedic information about it. --Jayron32 21:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I doubt it, it's something that most readers would consider commonplace in the US, yet another stupid shooting of a couple of people and a suicide. It's really, really irrelevant in the big scheme of things given how often we see these tragic stories in the US. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:28, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
        • You know, it's not entirely necessary that you respond to every person who thinks differently than you do. --Jayron32 21:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Well I count at least ten supports that I haven't responded to, so I guess you're either talking bollocks or you can't count. Retract or look stupid, your call. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
        • If by most of our readers you mean yourself, then okay. If by most of our readers you mean most of our readers, you're wrong. Between Christopher Jordan Dorner, Christopher Dorner, and 2013 Southern California shootings the articles have gotten 351,525 views. There is no way you can tell me that our readers consider it commonplace when the interest is that high. Ryan Vesey 21:36, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
          • Yeah, let's go with page views, of course. Perhaps you can make that part of ITN/R? Sasha Grey has had 3/4 million hits in the past month for nothing at all. Pointless comparison, pointless contribution. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
            • Did I ever say that it should be posted due to the number of page views? I said that it shows that readers don't consider this commonplace. If it was commonplace, they wouldn't care enough to be going to the article. Fox and CNN wouldn't have been broadcasting the story nonstop yesterday. The fact that you find it commonplace means absolutely nothing. Ryan Vesey 21:42, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
              • Regular (ex)porn star gets same number as page views as this major super manhunt/mega-warrior versus LAPD/biggest manhunt in history/million dollar reward etc etc. It's really flat, he was accused of killing a couple of people, and then went on the run, and just because it became a publicity festival, it shouldn't be ITN. Murders through gun crime and people on the run is commonplace in the US, it's not newsworthy. Why am I not surprised that Fox would sensationalise this rubbish? Have you ever seen television outside the US? Fox is ridiculed, CNN is tape on rotation. Sad you might think otherwise. Not significant outside LA, not significant to the world. Not newsworthy. Not worth ITN. Sorry. A bit. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support, once it is conclusively resolved. Significant enough story for ITN. --Bongwarrior (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support very similar to the DC sniper shooting, which left the Washington D.C area terrorized with fear until the subjects behind those attacks were caught. The same scenario applies here, but with a much bigger metropolitan area being affected. I agree with Bongwarrior that the case, (the finding of human remains) needs to be resolved first, and if the LAPD states the he somehow escaped, it would mean the case is still outgoing. Huge global story here, with significant impact. Secret account 21:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose - I have tried not to comment on this one, but feel compelled to weigh in on what I find to be sensationalist drama-mongering compared to the other blurbs we have going. Jusdafax 02:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Enough of that. Let's try to keep this productive and civil. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 00:34, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    • Oppose. No joking, yet another Tuesday afternoon shooting in the good old US of A? <Yawn> OTOH, it would be notable if there weren't any spree shootings in the US in any given month. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 04:35, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    The contempt is offensive, Confucius. We don't speak of "just another old Chinee run down by a tank" or the like. Show some respect for your fellow editors and humans. μηδείς (talk) 06:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    What a racist comment. How about some respect for the Chinee? We probably don't speak of "just another old Chinee run down by a tank" or the like because the Chinee don't run people down with tanks all that often, certainly not as often as the Mericans get into shootdowns with their guns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:24, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    This comment makes me laugh. It boggles my mind how people seem to think Americans go on shooting sprees every week, like these kind of killings don't happen in any other country. Crazy people with guns live in EVERY country. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 12:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    The country is run by the NRA, and even unbalanced people can easily get hold of guns. In response to the racist allegations above, the Chinese equivalent to posting this would be wanting to post news of any given civil disturbance or protest in the PRC. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 13:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Exactly right. The NRA has ungodly amounts of power in that country. No wonder there are so many murders like this.-- (talk) 13:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I do think you'll find there are far more frequent in the US than in other developed nations, especially something as minor as this (what, 3 deaths so far). Fgf10 (talk) 13:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose, as per Ohconfucius above. Not notable, and we wouldn't even be discussing it if it wasn't in the States. And Medeis' comparison above made me laugh heartily, too silly, thanks, I needed that this morning. Fgf10 (talk) 08:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Right, like mass shootings only occur in the mass shootings don't happen in the Netherlands or the UK? How would this be any more or less notable had it not occurred in the US? -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 12:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Yes, they do occur, but far less frequently. It would not be notable in any country, as far as I'm concerned. You will note that the original nominator is American, as are the majority of the support votes (as far as one can tell by userpages). Hence me noting that it would probably not have been discussed if it hadn't been in the States. Fgf10 (talk) 13:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose as per Neljack above. Unfortunately mass shootings in the US are not uncommon. There have been many in the last six months. Wish they were more rare, but they're not. - Shudde talk 08:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    It isn't just another mass shooting; it is a mass shooting by an ex-cop against other cops. That doesn't happen every day, even in the US. 331dot (talk) 10:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    How does that make it more notable? Fgf10 (talk) 13:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose More dead Yankees. Hey, 'Muricans! The world is NOT about YOU.-- (talk) 12:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Very distasteful, while not particularly notable, people still died. Some degree of respect would be in order. Fgf10 (talk) 13:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    Respect? Please. The Yanks were the ones who created these insane pro-gun laws ensuring a gun in the hands of every 'Murican no matter how incapable they may be. The only respect they should be get is when they repeal their prized Second Amendment. How many mass killings will it take before that will happen?-- (talk) 13:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    I know the tide of support is against this nomination, but how do we allow comments like the above to stand? WaltCip (talk) 13:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Note - The body that was recovered has been identified as Dorner. --Bongwarrior (talk) 08:16, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. I opposed that British manhunt story, and I oppose this one. Besides, it's over now. Abductive (reasoning) 22:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

    IOC drops WrestlingEdit

    Article: 2020 Summer Olympics (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​IOC drops Wrestling from 2020 Summer Olympics
    News source(s): (Washington post)

    Nominator's comments: IOC removed the sport to add new sport in 2020 olympics --Gfosankar (talk) 12:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose. This vote was not the final word, as wrestling will now compete with other sports for inclusion in the program. This shouldn't be considered until the final vote. 331dot (talk) 12:52, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose the Olympics adds and removes events each cycle, I'm not sure why this would be more notable than others in the past. Hot Stop (Talk) 13:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    It isn't just an event, but an entire sport. Just a clarification. 331dot (talk) 14:01, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose because this announcement is yet premature (we might still see Greco Roman wrestling in 2020, depending on the outcome of a different vote.) --hydrox (talk) 13:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose as per the points made by 331dot and Hydrox. I think the addition of a new sport (hopefully squash!) might make a good story when it occurs. LukeSurl t c 19:06, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support in principle Wrestling in the Olympics dates back to ancient Greece and this news really is suprising and sure to cause controversy, but if it is not the final vote then I don't know if it should be put up since the sport argurably stands a far greater chance of making the Olympics than some of the other proposed sports. Sure makes me wonder why they opted to keep the Equestrian events though. --PlasmaTwa2 05:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support just because wrestling is one of he sports taken from the ancient games. Nergaal (talk) 06:20, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait until the final decision on whether this actually happens, and if so which sport replaces it. Modest Genius talk 14:49, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    FWIw I heard on ABC news with Diane Sawyer last night they just want to decrease the number of events, not replace it. μηδείς (talk) 20:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    The stories I have read indicates they are removing wrestling from the list of "25 core sports" to allow for the possibility of including a new one. Resolute 20:59, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    Could be, Sawyer's bit was a 15 second throwaway segment I wouldn't have seen anyway if I wasn't waiting for Jeopardy! to come on. μηδείς (talk) 21:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
    "It will now compete with with seven other sports [...] for a place in the 2020 Games" BBC Modest Genius talk 22:01, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

    [Posted] North Korea nuclear weapons testEdit

    Article: 2013 North Korean nuclear test (talk, history)
    Blurb: ​North Korea conducts a nuclear weapons test.
    News source(s): CNN Reuters

    Article updated

    Nominator's comments: Little to no earthquake history in this region; probable North Korean nuclear weapons test. Details still sketchy, so will need to wait til information becomes clearer. --Ks0stm (TCGE) 03:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

    • Oppose- This could be a number of things. No one has confirmed it, and KCNA has not acknowledged it. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 03:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait for more information. It most likely is one, as the area the seismic activity was detected has no history of natural earthquakes, but we should wait for an official statement from North Korea or confirmation by other governments. 331dot (talk) 03:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose (edit conflict)x3 Probable, but not yet confirmed: They just assume it's a test as of right now. No update, either. -- Anc516 (TalkContribs) 03:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Reuters now calling it confirmed in the article linked in the nomination template. Ks0stm (TCGE) 04:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
      • N.K. also saying it was a test, [44]. --MASEM (t) 05:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support an act of war contravening multiple UN Resolutions and causing regional military alerts.
    • Ready the "oppposes" above are actually waits, the article is now in acceptable more than three referenced paragraph form. μηδείς (talk) 06:17, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support confirmation from the NK government has just came through. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 06:20, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support International reaction is coming in swiftly. Quotes in a Guardian article from the UN Secretary General, US President, the Kremlin, and UK Foreign Secretary. --Natural RX 07:29, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Needs Expansion for some bizarre reason this article keeps being reverted from full paragraph to list form. So until it is expanded it fails the three full paragraph requirement. μηδείς (talk) 07:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Ready Again? Well, were back to at least three paragraphs of at least four sentences each with this edit. It looks ready, but any admin posting this should check to make sure it's not reverted to list form in the reaction section or otherwise compromised. μηδείς (talk) 08:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support TheOriginalSoni (talk) 09:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support: Article looks fleshed out, no question on notability. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 11:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support article looks good, official announcement made. --IP98 (talk) 13:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support it's definitely in the news, and there's even a new article about the event in delightful shape. --hydrox (talk) 13:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Posted --Jayron32 14:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose. By now, this is a "routine event". KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 21:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Nuclear weapons detonations are also rare events in general. 331dot (talk) 00:19, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 11Edit

    [Posted] Benedict XVI to AbdicateEdit

    Article: Benedict XVI (talk, history)
    Blurb: Pope Benedict XVI is to abdicate the papal throne at the end of the month.
    Alternative blurb: Pope Benedict XVI is to abdicate the papal throne at the end of the month, the first to do so since Pope Gregory XII in 1415.
    News source(s): (BBC News), (NY Times)

    Nominated event is listed at WP:ITN/R, meaning that the recurrence of the event should in itself merit a post on WP:ITN, subject to the quality of the article and any update(s) to it.

    Nominator's comments: Once the articles are updated with the winner of this award, should be posted per ITN/R. --User:Simfan34

    • Strong support after updated. This has last time happened in 1415 with Pope Gregory XII. That is, almost 600 years ago --hydrox (talk) 11:18, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. This is HUGE news. Headlines worldwide. --LukeSurl t c 11:20, 11 February 2013 (UTC) (P.S. whether this is ITN/R or not needn't be a factor here, it's the POPE!)
    • Support Papal resignations are rare, indeed. Canuck89 (talk to me) 11:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
    • Question - This should obviously be posted, however the question is when should it be posted. After the article is ready or when the Pope actually resigns? YuMaNuMa Contrib 11:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    With breaking news like this, the announcement of resignation is often enough big news and posted as it is announced. This recently happened with abdication announcement of the Dutch queen. Whether this should be posted again after the abdication really takes effect can be discussed then. --hydrox (talk) 11:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    But then again, Wikipedia is not a news site. --bender235 (talk) 11:45, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    And yet this page is the "in the news" nomination page. 331dot (talk) 12:03, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support: of course. Abdication is a strange word to use, though. Isn't it a resignation? --MZMcBride (talk) 11:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we list only "events" instead of "announcements"? Which means wait until 28 February, i.e. the day when he steps down. --bender235 (talk) 11:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    That might be true with most other similar announcements; but this is such a rare event (last time was 1415) that the announcement is notable in this case. 331dot (talk) 12:05, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • No need to support or oppose that news. Rare news. One in a millenium. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 11:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Let's expedite this one. Jusdafax 11:31, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support alternative blurb, but I would go with "resign", rather than "abdicate". Wikinews, the BBC, the Guardian and Reuters (see the sources of the Wikinews page) have all gone with "resign". It Is Me Here t / c 11:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    Also, I would go with "the papacy", rather than "the papal throne". Canuck89 (talk to me) 11:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
    • Support now or later pending update but not both. New pope is ITN/R and will post per normal. For something like this though, we need a proper minimum update. Should be no problem to find WP:RS to build it out. --IP98 (talk) 11:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - obviously world-wise importance. To complicate the abdicate/resign issue a bit further, the official text of the announcement states that the Pope intends to "... renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome...", therefore I suggest blurb changed to Pope Benedict XVI declares he is to renounce his ministry at the end of the month, the first to do so since Pope Gregory XII in 1415 An optimist on the run! 11:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

    There is now an official announcement so I posted with that wording which I think is closer to ITN standards. Shii (tock) 11:49, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

    Do you think it would be OK to add an internal link to [[Papal resignation|resign the papal throne]]? Also, what about a picture? It Is Me Here t / c 12:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    If EVER there was a time to post this asap its this.
    Also support It is me here's recommendations for a [ic and ;inkLihaas (talk) 12:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • This article from the Catholic Encyclopedia has Papal resignation listed under the article for abdication. Surely if you relinquish the rights to a throne you abdicate, Edward VIII didn't resign he abdicated. I think using the word resign undermines the whole thing, anybody can resign, only a few people can abdicate --Andrew 12:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    The Catholic Encyclopedia refers to the "resignation" of Pope Gregory XII - the last time this happened - not abdication. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • It also mentions "abdicating the Papacy" which, as opposed to resignation, doesn't make it sound like he worked at Walmart --Andrew 12:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. The word abdicate should be definitely used. The pope is elected for life, it's not an office one just resigns from. Resign is just a kind euphemism. Inglok (talk) 13:11, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    The Financial Times is using the word abdicate on its front page: Inglok (talk) 13:17, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
      • Just considering UK media the BBC, Telegraph, Times, Guardian and Independent all went with "resign". Hut 8.5 13:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
        • CNN: "resign"; ABC: "resign"; The Sydney Morning Herald: "resigns". It Is Me Here t / c 13:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
          • I dont think that because numerous media sources are promoting shoddy journalism that that's any reason for us to follow suit. A termination of the papal throne, a position for life, is an abdication. --Andrew 14:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    The New York Times also says "resign". Can you provide sources that are using "abdicate"? 331dot (talk) 14:20, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The Catholic encyclopedia has an article on Papal Abdication [45] --Andrew 14:59, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • But even that article talks about both "papal abdication" and "papal resignation". From the evidence we have seen here so far, it strikes me that most sources use "resign"/"resignation", a minority of sources use both "resignation" and "abdication", but I have not seen you offer any sources which support your viewpoint, which is that "resignation" is not an acceptable term. It Is Me Here t / c 15:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Support. But the accepted term is "resign". And he doesn't occupy a "throne". Y'all are confusing someone who looks like a secular monarch for... a monarch. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    I believe the Pope does have a throne - see cathedra. Hence he pronounces ex cathedra. (talk) 19:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • I think we should keep an eye on the newly-created Resignation of Pope Benedict XVI and change the blurb to "Pope Benedict XVI [no bolding] (pictured) announces that he will resign [bolding] ..." once it is sufficiently complete. It Is Me Here t / c 15:41, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
      • I think I might nominate that content fork for deletion as WP:NOTNEWS. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment CNN has an opinion saying that "resign" is the correct term because that's the term used in a translation of the Canon Law. I checked the authoritative Latin source and it uses the phrase "muneri| suo renuntiet", 'reject his office'. So not only are they right that "abdicate" is used in the modern times mostly of monarchs (which The Pope is not) and that the original source seems to use a term that is maybe best translated as "resign", most sources are also using "resign" as pointed out above. --hydrox (talk) 17:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
      • It already says resign on the main page, and has for a long time. --Jayron32 19:57, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    Suggest update blurb if next Pope is a woman. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:09, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

    February 10Edit