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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2007

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Archived discussion for September 2007 from Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates.

September 30

 
A crop from this image could be used to illustrate this ITN item.
Added. This is a perfect ITN article - boringly encyclopedic, with info on the recent event proportional to its importance to the topic as a whole - IMO of course. And I'm not just saying this because ITN is on the point of becoming a sports ticker. Heh. - BanyanTree 23:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
How would people feel about replacing the image of Gebrselassie with a crop from Image:Eruption of Jabal al-Tair Island at night.jpg? Gebrselassie hasn't been up for very long, but it's pretty cool that we've got a free image of an active volcano. I can do the honors if people think it's a good idea. (Image:071001a-006.jpg is also available, but I like the night image personally.) —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 02:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
When the Gebrselassie pic gets old, yes, sure. But I don't think we are there yet. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe then, there'll be a even cooler pic of the volcano available. :-) --PFHLai 03:04, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

 

While I've been eying the awesomeness of that volcano at night photo myself, I'm not sure it looks like anything but a red blur at ITN thumbnail sizes. See right. - BanyanTree 14:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I only endorse putting up Paolo Bettini's victory at the 2007 UCI Road World Championships - Men's Road Race if one of the other sports items is taken down. Otherwise, only the NASA spacecraft or the Burmese protests would not be about sports. That would be too much. AecisBrievenbus 13:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Is the UCI Road World Championships internationally well-known? I didn't even know what race this is - I just found out it was a cycling race with teeny-weeny blurb at the BBC Sport website. --Howard the Duck 15:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
It is about as well known as the official World Championship in one of the most well watched sports in the world can be. All of the major cyclists took part, except for those who weren't allowed to take part because of doping issues. I'm not sure it's as notable as the Tour de France, but it certainly is notable. AecisBrievenbus 17:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Surely it is more popular than the other "sports" on the news section; chess and women's football?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.47.230 (talkcontribs)
Admittedly, I'm not a big follower of sports, but I'd personally say that cycling is about even with the sports currently on ITN in terms of popularity. Chess, cycling, women's football and track and field all have small but devoted followings. I'm not sure what criteria one could use to determine which of the four is more or less popular. By the way, I agree with Aecis that the cycling result can go up only if it replaces one of the other sports items. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 02:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that the popularity of the UCI World Championship is nowhere in comparison with the Tour de France. --Howard the Duck 02:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Not to mention this blurb is nowhere to be found at Portal:Current events/Sports. --Howard the Duck 02:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

--SteveRwanda 14:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I second this nomination. It's been 4 years since the world record was last broken.

--Synesthetic 06:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Please guys, let's make some choices here. All of these proposals meet our criteria, since these are all notable events in notable sports with, it appears, all the necessary updates to the relevant articles. But if we post all of these, we'll have the Women's Football World Cup, the Chess World Championship, the AFL title and the marathon world record, four sports items, on ITN. I think that's way too much. I suggest we choose one item, for the sake of the balance in ITN content. AecisBrievenbus 16:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. It seems to me that going by ITN criteria (specially It should be a story of an international importance, or at least interest) the least important of these four stories is the AFL title as it is an Australian championship whereas the other three stories refer to international events. There are currently two sport stories (football and cricket) on ITN. If we upload two more (chess and marathon), the item on cricket would go away, being at the end of the list. That'll leave us with 3 sport news out of 6 ITN items. Is that OK? --Victor12 16:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I personally think that 3 out of 6 items is still a bit much, especially if you keep in mind the fact that these will be the first three items on ITN. The first non-sports item would be the Vukovar massacre verdict, at position 4. AecisBrievenbus 17:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
So it comes down to chess vs marathon as football is already up there. Although one could argue that chess is not a sport but a game, but let's not go there. ;-) What kind of criteria should we use to decide among them? The popularity of the sport? The importance of the event for that particular sport? Any other criteria? --Victor12 17:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd rather see fresh content on ITN than see content I'm personally interested in. For three out of six stories to be sport is better than having old stories. Talking of old stories, why was Dawn (spacecraft) not posted from 28 September?-gadfium 19:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I would have put the Dawn item up if I had seen it in time (now is probably too late). Thue | talk 19:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't see the problem with putting many sports-related items up, as long as they qualify. Sometimes things just happen at the same time. Thue | talk 19:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, since the two items seem about equal I randomly posted one, the chess championships. I thought about posting the other one too, but that would have pushed Burma off the news, which would be bad as Burma is very much still newsworthy. I think we should update the burma headline, put Burma at the top, and then add the Marathon headline. Thue | talk 20:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Could you just shorten the headline used for the other two sports-related items, and thus make room for the third, without losing an item? Espresso Addict 08:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Not a bad idea, I don't see how they could easily be significantly shortened. Thue | talk 09:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm not immensely familiar with the style used at ITN, so forgive me if I violate the syntax (I hang out at DYK), but:
"Indian Viswanathan Anand wins the 2007 World Championship to become the new world chess champion." or "Indian Viswanathan Anand wins the 2007 World Chess Championship to become the new world champion." or even "Indian Viswanathan Anand becomes the 2007 world chess champion."
"Germany defeats Brazil at the 2007 FIFA Women's World Cup to win its second world title." or even "Germany defeats Brazil at the 2007 FIFA Women's World Cup."
...would probably free up enough space for "Ethiopian Haile Gebrselassie beats the marathon world record with a time of 2:04:26." Espresso Addict 09:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I added the marathon item by shortening the items. I read your suggestions, but I was tweaking the formulations so I don't know how much of the formulation is mine and how much is yours :). Thue | talk 10:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, the main page isn't that balanced right now :(. Thue | talk 10:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Cheers! There was a gap at the bottom of DYK before the change to ITN -- we're not used to such a short FA blurb. Espresso Addict 10:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

September 29

And before you start arguing against it, consider this:

  • A news item about the Super Bowl (American Football's equivalant to a grand final) was added even before the game had ended [1] ("being played") - the result with scores was posted soon after and remained there
  • It is the highest level of Australian Football in the world
  • It is broadcast around the world almost as much as American Football is
  • The game itself has a whole article about it
  • The game had a 119 point margin - the highest ever in a grand final (most within recent years are quite close)
For the non-AFL people, the score in English was 163-44. --Howard the Duck 15:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Support, as long as it can be rewritten for clarity's sake. Sasha Callahan 15:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
The article has absolutely zero references, and isn't covered by the BBC or [CNN. --Howard the Duck 15:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Since when has coverage by either BBC or CNN been a requirement? International, as you argued strongly, means in 2 countries: that could be two excluding USA and UK. Kevin McE 22:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
In order for it to be news it has to be covered. Obviously, it hasn't been covered by CNN World Sport or BBC Sport Today. Hey, at least the UAAP Season 70 basketball tournaments has been covered by the New York Times, my pet article has a chance. --Howard the Duck 07:34, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't compare this to the Super Bowl. That's a much bigger game then this. Anyway, I support it, but we should do something about the score. That's confusing. --Plasma Twa 2 20:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Support if rephrased: while the sport might use the title premiers for its champions, it is not a "normal" usage of the word recognised by English speakers world-wide; it should be clear what sport we are talking about without needing to look at any linked page; and the score needs to be clarified.
Another point: Is anyone going to get this confused with the Arena Football League? No doubt this is the bigger and more important league, but there's always going to be the person that gets the two confused. --Plasma Twa 2 23:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Howard the Duck - "zero references"? Check any Australian news source (you don't even need to look in the sport section). The AFL Grand Final is just as big for us in Australia, so, yes, we can compare the AFL Grand Final to the Superbowl. If the Superbowl gets on the Main Page, and the FA Cup does too, then why not this football league? Here is a rephrasing below (I've put in just the total score, removed references to "premiers" and clarified the abbreviation). It should be clear to anyone what the item is talking about. Put this up soon or don't put it up at all - it's already yesterday's news. Thanks :) 203.208.110.207 05:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

No references still as of this post. --Howard the Duck 07:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

And I might just clarify that the use of "beat" without an "s" is correct in non-American English, as the team of Geelong is considered a plural. It's still present, and not past, tense. --203.208.110.207 05:55, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Another thing, this is not mentioned in Portal:Current events/Sports. --Howard the Duck 07:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

September 28

  • The NASA spacecraft Dawn is launched on a mission to explore mainbelt asteroid Vesta and dwarf planet Ceres. Hektor 05:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps with a picture from http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/dawn/launch/index.html ? --74.13.126.145 06:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Support this item.-gadfium 06:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Support. Finally something without death, politics or cricket. Sasha Callahan 06:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Wow. It's not up yet. Stunning. I endorse it. NASA spacecraft launches are always major international news stories. --Plasma Twa 2 07:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with Thue above, and believe it's not too late to post this launch. I have posted it. Apologies for the delay. AecisBrievenbus 19:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

September 27

Based on this search, I'd say that it meets the "international interest" criterion. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 03:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
It appears that all the relevant articles have been updated, so I want to propose/suggest: "The Yugoslavia Tribunal in The Hague sentences Mile Mrkšić and Veselin Šljivančanin to 20 and 5 years in prison respectively, for their involvement in the 1991 Vukovar massacre." Aec·is·away talk 15:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Added, with this wording. Thanks. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 18:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Why is the Vukovar item posted on ITN? The recent court rulings of war criminals have to be at least somewhat elaborated first...--Camptown 19:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I definitely endorse putting this up. ITN shouldn't become a body count, but that many casualties in a bridge collapse is definitely notable. AecisBrievenbus 20:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Should the item note that the bridge was under construction, and that the casualties were mostly construction workers? I'm thinking something like this:
The Can Tho Bridge in Vietnam collapses, killing dozens of construction workers.
How's that wording? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 20:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Added. General numbers tend to be better as ITN body count updates have taken an embarrassing amount of time. Thanks, BanyanTree 21:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

September 26

Is there an updated encyclopedia article on this subject? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 20:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

September 25

It's in WikiNews with the page name Volcano_erupts_without_warning_in_New_Zealand%2C_two_injured - I don't know hoe to make the link point to WikiNews. Pedrocelli 00:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Pedrocelli, we don't put links to Wikinews articles on ITN. If you want to put links into Wikipedia articles and connect to Wikinews articles, you may want to take a look at Wikipedia:Sister projects#Wikinews. --PFHLai 03:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
The headline could be
New Zealand volcano Mount Ruapehu erupts without warning, causing two lahars and requiring an evacuation of the ski lodges in the area.
However, this is a fairly minor eruption, and although it wasn't expected, this is one of the world's more active volcanoes. I don't think its really worthy of the main page.-gadfium 02:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
This appears to be, as gadfium says, fairly minor. One person seriously injured, two people with minor injuries and 50 people evacuated. Aec·is·away talk 12:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes and the fact it's a minor eruption is emphasised by the way the article only has one shortish paragraph, hardly the substanial update we expect. Nil Einne 17:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

September 24

I second the entry. This is the inagural World cup in the new form of cricket. Can we reword like this: India wins the inaugural ICC World Twenty20 held in South Africa after beating Pakistan by 5 runs in a thriller.
I'm glad it's up, but the "in a dramatic game" stuff doesn't belong. We didn't say "The Anaheim Ducks defeated the Ottawa Senators in a huge letdown of a Stanley Cup Final to win the Stanley Cup." --Plasma Twa 2 08:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I honestly never heard of this. Even the World Championships in athletics had a bigger press than this. --Howard the Duck 11:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Speak for yourself. I honestly never heard of the World Championships outside wikipedia Nil Einne 17:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
It wasn't even on the front page of CNN International at the day of the event. --Howard the Duck 02:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Not to mention only one sentence in the 'Final' section is cited. --Howard the Duck 03:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
CNN tends to be very American centric from my experience Nil Einne 07:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
CNN International is mostly based in London, England. --Howard the Duck 09:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
So does any admin this should be removed? The section is virtually unsourced, for crying out loud. And even if it sourced, it didn't have enough international recognition, as per CNN International. --Howard the Duck 03:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

September 23

September 22

How about: Former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori arrives at Lima one day after the Supreme Court of Chile approved his extradition on charges of human rights abuses and corruption? --Victor12 02:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems people around here don't think this is important enough. Perhaps not as relevant as the meteorite impact? --Victor12 17:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Fujimori's extradition back to Peru is a relevant topic; in fact, the meteorite event has not caught the attention here in Peru as the arrived of Fujimori did. --Awkawasi 22:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that Fujimori's extradition is relevant, and should be included. But I'm a bit wary of having two blurbs about Peru on ITN. Common practice is for the oldest item to be dropped from ITN when adding a new item. This would mean removing the elections in Greece when adding Fujimori. But I would prefer taking down the meteorite impact for Fujimori's extradition. On the other hand, all of this won't be necessary if we add the protests in Myanmar as well. That would mean we could take down both the elections in Greece and the meteorite impact in Peru, and we could avoid having two blurbs on ITN about Peru. AecisBrievenbus 23:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think having two entries on the same country is a problem, Peru's on a roll, what can we do... :-) On the other hand it seems like a sensible solution to also add the protests in Myanmar. That way we won't need to argue on whether a single country should be allowed two entries or not. --Victor12 23:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the idea of add the the protests in Myanmar as well. --Awkawasi 23:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
So the Myanmar bit has been added but Fujimori's extradition not. Any reason why? --Victor12 13:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I've been struggling with the wording of this blurb. The best I could come up with is "Chile extradites Alberto Fujimori to Peru. The former president has been charged with human rights abuse and corruption." Any suggestions? AecisBrievenbus 17:42, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
How about: "Chile extradites former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori on charges of human rights abuses and corruption"? --Victor12 18:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Now a cricket news has been added but this one hasn't. Who knew getting things into ITN could be this hard. --Victor12 13:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted, with apologies for the delay. AecisBrievenbus 17:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
How about using a picture of Alberto Fujimori, such as Commons:Image:OAS-Fujimori-crop.jpg above, in lieu of the disgraced cyclist? --199.71.174.100 17:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

September 21

Interesting story, but probably too short right now (very few details are known). --Camptown 22:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure the article is substantial enough for ITN, but I definitely think the story itself is notable and relevant enough to mention on ITN. AecisBrievenbus 23:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The article is short but it's adequately referenced and nicely written. I think this story should be added. --Victor12 23:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Fujimori has already arrived to Peru. --Awkawasi 20:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

September 19

 
Picture of Óscar Pereiro. May be cropped for ITN
  • Now that it's official, I can't believe nobody has yet nominated Floyd Landis for the Main Page. This is huge news- one of the biggest sporting competitions in the world, and for the first time ever, someone is stripped of the championship. How about something along the lines of (and I bold Landis because the TdF article hasn't been as updated nearly as much as the Landis article):
Floyd Landis is stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title and banned from professional cycling for two years for doping. (I'd perhaps add: "Óscar Pereiro (pictured) is declared the new winner." The problem, of course, is that I'm not sure if he has been officially declared the champion.
I don't think that's necessarily the best wording, but of course, I was a math/econ major, not an English/cycling major. -- Mike (Kicking222) 21:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted. I haven't included the suspension, because that would make the blurb too long. AecisBrievenbus 23:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
It was removed because this was on ITN a few months back. Was this true? I believe we mentioned him during the initial controversy way back in July? 2006 but as far as I'm aware he hasn't been mentioned since then. Perhaps there's some confusion with the 2007 Tour de France doping controversies? Nil Einne 12:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I think Landis was only mentioned back in July 2006, when he won the Tour. I'm not sure we mentioned his positive test then. What we listed a few months ago were the doping cases in the 2007 Tour, involving i.a. Vinokourov and Rasmussen. AecisBrievenbus 12:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I strongly disagree with removing a story because one thinks something might have been mentioned previously. (I hope that sentence doesn't sound too jerk-ish; sorry if it does.) Second, even if this was mentioned previously- and, so far as I know, the only cycling that was on ITN regarded this year's Tour de France results and doping controversies, not last year's- it should still be mentioned again. This is someone being stripped of the biggest title in their sport- the first time such a thing has occurred. Honestly, I couldn't care less about cycling, but I sure know notability when I see it. -- Mike (Kicking222) 14:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 
Free image of Floyd Landis, would be cropped if added to ITN
It looks to me as if there's not much support for the removal. If nobody objects, I'll restore the item soon. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 21:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Incidentally, if I do re-add the item I think it would be appropriate to use a relevant free image. Do people prefer the Pereiro image (since he's the newly named title holder) or Image:Floyd-landis-toctt.jpg, since the item is primarily about Landis (and the Landis image is arguably a more interesting photograph)? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 21:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
In the absence of any objection or comment, I've restored the Landis item with a cropped version of the Landis picture. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 23:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there some reason why the article is still marked as a stub? Is there some reason why the event mentioned in that article currently only consists of one measly sentence? If so, IMO, it does not qualify yet under the ITN criteria. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I endorse putting this up, but I suggest adding the name of El Fassi's party, Istiqlal Party, to the blurb, and perhaps (if there are any) also the names of the coalition partners. AecisBrievenbus 23:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know how to word in the parliamentary election and how the previous PM was independent. Therequiembellishere 00:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted, with apologies for the delay. AecisBrievenbus 17:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

September 18

Support. This is a new & highly interesting story. --Plasma Twa 2 06:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Still breaking, too, and will only expand, either for a "Whew, that's all it was!" or "Stock up on rations, get the guns and children" angle and get far more press either way, depending on the results of this supposed scientific report on the illness due Thursday or Friday. • Lawrence Cohen 13:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I endorse putting this up, but I suggest we wait for the official report, and include that in the blurb. Aec·is·away talk 14:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Official word apparently hasn't come, no reports of it. I'd say maybe go ahead with it. It is compelling, and reads in a sense as a mystery, and is all over the news anyway. People will want to read what is known so far, compiled in one place. • Lawrence Cohen 04:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You said that the scientific report is due Thursday or Friday. As I'm writing this, it's just after 5am on Thursday in Peru. I think it's a bit early to say that "official word apparently hasn't come". AecisBrievenbus 10:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Darn it, my bad. An anon had tweaked the date and I missed it. You are right; I was going off the adjusted wrong date of Wednesday rather than Thursday. • Lawrence Cohen 13:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and just when you thought it couldn't get any odder:
On September 20, Russian intelligence claimed that the meteorite was in fact the secret United States spy satellite known as the KH-13, which crashed in Peru. According to Russia, it was targetting Iran, was "destroyed in it's orbit", and that the illnesses were caused by the KH-13's radioactive Pu-238 power generator surving the re-entry and crash. Additionally, Russians have claimed that Americans themselves brought down the satellite from the United States Air Forces' 30th Space Wing located at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
Updated bizarre news this morning. Bet you $5 this turns within 2-5 years into a new huge conspiracy theory (assuming the new Peruvian Triffids nor global space pandemic get us first). • Lawrence Cohen 13:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi guys, we have a confirmed meteor strike now on that pending report from the geologists and I've adjusted the article. What else would need to be done to add this to the front page news for Wikipedia? • Lawrence Cohen 20:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we have enough information about this to put this on ITN. Any updates can be processed there, if and when they arise. But I can't find the right way to word the blurb. Any suggestions? AecisBrievenbus 23:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
How about, "A meteorite impact in Peru is surrounded in an ongoing mystery, as hundreds of nearby villagers fell ill from still unknown causes after it's arrival." Short, and to the point? • Lawrence Cohen 23:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
How about, Several hundred villagers fall ill after a meteorite impact in Peru? --Victor12 05:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Yours is better. • Lawrence Cohen 05:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I've added this, using Victor's wording. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 21:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Awesome- thank you. • Lawrence Cohen 21:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The problem with this is the following: the news is that there's still no news. This story is certainly interesting and remarkable (I have written about it myself), but I'm not sure it qualifies for ITN. AecisBrievenbus 09:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
It is in fact a response to Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates/August 2007#August 23. It was advised to add the article again if 90 days would have passed. Sijo Ripa 10:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I would suggest waiting until a new development occurs: a succesful cabinet formation, a new formateur, new elections, something like that. Aec·is·away talk 12:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
This is not on Portal:Current events, there is no article about this event, and this doesn't appear to have been picked up by media in any other country. AecisBrievenbus 20:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

September 17

Good for ITN no earlier than October 18. --74.14.21.183 17:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
The news was announced on Friday. Somehow I disagree. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 21:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree with the anonymous user on this one. She has announced that she intends to do something (return to Pakistan) and hopes to do something else (re-entering national politics) after that. If this is to be included, I suggest we wait until she actually returns to Pakistan. AecisBrievenbus 21:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I suggest holding off on this one until the official outcome has been made public. AecisBrievenbus 23:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
In Greece, the official outcome may be announced several days (or weeks) after the election.... --Camptown 23:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Aecis, right now more than 85% of the votes has been counted (officially), and this plus all exit polls show 4.2 units difference, the leading party has declared victory, and the losing party has conceded defeat and is already headed for party leadership reaffirmation(=party elections) with one more candidate declaring "present". I think it's pretty irreversible right now... NikoSilver 23:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
AFP just reported that 77% of the votes had been counted. If we are at 85+% now, we should have the official results later today (Monday). I don't think it would hurt to wait for that. AecisBrievenbus 23:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
What is there to wait for? The wording ("over four percent" etc) is very careful. Final votes tend to delay until next morning, and then again there are instances where few local results may be re-counted. Anyway, we are now at 89.92%, how much do you consider "final"? NikoSilver 23:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Update: 91.24% reporting in the official site, and me going to bed. You were right about moving fast. Happy editing. NikoSilver 00:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
One thing that needs to happen before this can be put on ITN, is updating Greek legislative election, 2007#Results. Doing that depends on the publication of the official results. AecisBrievenbus 00:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Anyone interested to update it, please click "parties" on the top left corner in the same page. It's almost 92% now, it should take an hour or so for almost final results, and I can't stay up any longer (it's 3:18 am here). Goodnight. NikoSilver 00:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I updated the results with 98.69% reporting; however, the lead of the Greek legislative election, 2007 still needs to be updated (preferably by someone more knowledgeable about Greek politics than me). Once that's done, I support adding this item. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 05:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Done. Please comment. Rewording a bit: NikoSilver 09:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
No objection from me (I'd only add "...for a second term", but wouldn't lose my sleep if it wasn't included either). All details can now be found in the article. NikoSilver 10:04, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
BTW, there's also a Panhellenic Socialist Movement leadership election, 2007 article now, which could be included as a link in my previous proposal. I've just modified it below, but I repeat I wouldn't mind if the details were omitted: NikoSilver 12:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Added Greek elections. —Nightstallion 14:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Can we have Commons:Image:Kostas Karamanlis.jpg instead of that car, pls? --74.14.21.183 17:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Done. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 18:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

September 16

Support. Definitely the story of the day.--Camptown 17:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Support. The BBC puts the death toll at 87 now. 82.44.80.162 20:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Strong support. Every other plane crash with a death toll this high has made the front page pronto. Daniel Case 20:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted. CNN and BBC made mention of 87 fatalities, so I've gone with that number. AecisBrievenbus 20:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
When I first read Camptown's message the article didn't support the claim it had been confirmed but it does now as does the reference so support this. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any free image suitable for this so the McLaren image remains the best shot Nil Einne 12:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Former championship winner in an international sport gets killed unexpectedly - seems front-page worthy to me. -81.179.111.63 22:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Has now been confirmed, too. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 22:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted. AecisBrievenbus 22:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
And removed by Jaranda (talk · contribs). AecisBrievenbus 22:48, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed, not really international news per say, at least outside of Britain, if it was a racing accident, maybe, but people die in plane crashes everyday. Jaranda wat's sup Sports! 22:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Not really international? He was one of the most important figures in a highly international sport, this was Breaking News on CNN, this has been reported in countless countries. How is this not international news? AecisBrievenbus 22:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind top story in BBC Jaranda wat's sup Sports! 22:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
McRae had not driven a full WRC season since 2003: since then, he had only competed in 3 legs over 3 1/2 seasons: would it not therefore be more accurate to describe him as a former world rally championship driver? Kevin McE 17:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

What do people think about replacing the picture of Erap with one of a McLaren car. While this is Alonso's car specificially hopefully we won't get complaints that we are singling out Alonso. The SELENA picture appears to have copyright concerns and I don't think we can find a picture for the UN thing. Nil Einne 08:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I've replaced Estrada with this image, but "(driver Fernando Alonso pictured)" may be a bit too long, breaking the blurb in two. How about replacing it with the UN flag, and changing the first sentence of the blurb on the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples to "The General Assembly of the United Nations (flag pictured) signs..."? AecisBrievenbus 21:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Well it looks like there's a Colin McRae free picture someone found which can replace this so probably doesn't matter anymore but I think 'car pictured' or something should be enough. It doesn't really matter that it's specifically depicting Alonso since it's unlikely you'll be able to recognise him. Nil Einne 12:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

September 15

Major environmental news; Northwest Passage has been updated. If linking "melting" to global warming raises NPOV concerns, it should be noted that even Fox News acknowledges that this is due to global warming. I'm open to suggestions on how to word the fact that this is the first time the Northwest Passage has been considered fully navigable in recorded history. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 16:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I support this, although it's only a small part of the Northwest Passage article. Getting an updated image for the article would help. The best I can find is [2], but we'd want one taken a couple of weeks later.-gadfium 20:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The ESA's images are for non-commercial use only, so we can't use them, and NASA doesn't have an updated image. By the way, is it just me, or is anyone else having trouble getting Image:Northwest passage.jpg to display properly? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 03:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I was going to put this up, until I realized that it would knock the Joseph Estrada item off, and then we'd be left with no images. :( Thoughts? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 03:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I've addded this (somewhat belatedly), now that we've got the Greek prime minister item for a timely image. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 18:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Considering it's not confirmed that he's dead, this is definitely not one to post. Once it is confirmed, and assuming his article gets a few more sentences about the incident (which will surely happen when more details are revealed), I would definitely support. He's probably the single most notable person in his field, he was still quite recently at the top of his sport (and hell, he was at the X Games just last month), and his (assumed) death is certainly tragic and unexpected. -- Kicking222 04:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Really??? Support if ever its true. --Howard the Duck 08:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I think it's basically true but it hasn't be confirmed by the police yet so let's wait. [3] Nil Einne 08:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

September 14

The article on SELENE looks reasonable, but the article on Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency is a bit messy. Perhaps we should rewrite the blurb to de-emphasis it. The artists impression is from NASA.-gadfium 05:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted as:
I left out the part about "the largest lunar probe in thirty years" as I can't find that in the article. Any reference? --PFHLai 07:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I copied the blurb from Portal:Current events, which has since changed. The original source was BBC, which actually says it's the most complex lunar mission since Apollo. I may have been wrong about the image being free: see Portal_talk:Current_events#SELENE-gadfium 08:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the note on this. I've replaced it with a pic of Joseph Estrada for now. --PFHLai 22:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Already posted (not by me). --PFHLai 22:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

September 13

Davnel03 19:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be significant enough given it's a record fine and being excluded from the championship is also a major thing. So support presuming it meets the other criteria Nil Einne 20:52, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone first at least put a link to 2007 Formula One espionage controversy at the 2007 Formula One season page? --Howard the Duck 03:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
There already is (last part of lead before contents): A major talking point of the season has been an espionage controversy involving Ferrari and McLaren. Espionage controversy links to the espionage controversy page. I would be much appreciative if this appeared on the main page. Davnel03 15:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Can the headline be made more concise ? Maybe without repeating "Formula One" three time, and include a link to List of Formula One World Constructors' Champions ? --PFHLai 22:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
How about: "The World Motor Sport Council excludes Formula One team McLaren from the 2007 Constructors Championship and issues a fine of $100 million dollars, amidst an espionage controversy"? (still a bit wordy) AecisBrievenbus 22:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
How about: "FIA fines McLaren 100 million USD and excludes the Formula One auto racing team from the 2007 Constructors Championship for its role in an espionage controversy"? --PFHLai 13:49, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I like your version better, PFHLai. When can it go onto the main page ITN section? Davnel03 15:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted. --PFHLai 15:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you! Davnel03 15:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

September 12

Resubmitted in new form, after updating 4 articles and satisyfing ITN Criteria
Reworked submission (reworked articles!), now for threee interrelated updated articles (actually four - the competition involves a subpage). A Wikinews article appeared 12 September 2007: Wikinews:Tunisian swimmer Oussama Mellouli stripped of championship for doping, now referenced in all the updated articles. A tie-in between college students enhancing their all-night cramming and athletes enchancing their sport performance has emerged. Tne world-class student-athlete in question mitigated his behavior by claiming the pill as a help in writing a term-paper, not in enhancing his swimming). Picture courtesy of his Commons category (choice of 4 different).
The ITN Criteria satisfied as follows:
  1. . The story is listed on Portal:Current events/Sports under 11 September.
  2. . The event is important enough to have warranted updating 4 interrelated articles.
  3. . The story is of international interest and importance (apart from sports ramifications, there's rampant abuse of ADD medications for performance-enhancing of all-nighters)
  4. . Four articles updated, the date 11 September 2007 linked in, and a 12 September Wikinews article.
  5. . N/A - not a death
  6. . A relatively short headline written in present tense; the updated interrelated articles are all emboldened. If emboldening all 3 is opposed, only keep the bio emboldened.
  7. . Image provided with "(pictured right)" added for clarity.
Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't know this sportsman/drugcheat. There are too many drugcheats. Only the highly notable ones should get on ITN. Will support this item for ITN if there is a reference for him as "the first Arab world champion swimmer" before this retroactive ban was imposed. --PFHLai 07:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Well most people wouldn't. Swiminfo [4] ->first ARab. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the reference. Can this be worked into the headline ?
Now I'd like to ask if this "first Arab world champion swimmer" is famous in the Arab world, or just another sportsman. If he isn't world famous, I'll have to withdraw my support. --PFHLai 08:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I could use some help here, please. Is this guy notable enough ? --PFHLai 22:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The way swimming is, Mellouli is probably most famous in the US and Australia. To be honest, most American double and trople world champion swimmers are more revered in Australia. But he lives and trains at USC and probably is not all that well known. He was WC in the 800m which is not an Olympic event and the winning time was quite a long way outside the WR about 7.46 to 7.38. Also in swimming WRs get broken a lot. I estimate maybe 8-10 were broken in this year's WR, so I don't think that the 800m free this year could be considered to be one of hte better qaulity events. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think the article Mikhail Fradkov's Second Cabinet has received enough updates for ITN. Also, when putting this up, please keep in mind that Putin technically hasn't sacked the government; he has accepted its resignation. (Whatever happened behind the scenes is immaterial to ITN.) AecisBrievenbus 12:24, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Officially, Putin accepted Fradkov's resignation, but what happened is more like a Cabinet "reshuffle" orchestrated by the president. --Camptown 23:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
How about something like: Viktor Zubkov is nominated as Prime Minister of Russia, after Mikhail Fradkov resigns.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Therequiembellishere (talkcontribs)
  • The resignation of Shinzo Abe, Japanese PM, seems very notable. Once the article will be sufficiently expanded, it should go to the Main Page. --Tone 07:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
This should absolutely, definitely be put up on ITN. Important political crisis in a very important country. AecisBrievenbus 08:24, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Why was this item posted so quickly? (I'm not sure this item is the ideal candidate)--Camptown 11:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Again as far as I can tell it was added unilaterally to this page. The item is okay in all respects except the article has less info on the event than Wikinews (at this point). --Monotonehell 13:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Posted. --PFHLai 22:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

September 11

Support, headline could sound like "Russia tests the world's most powerful non-nuclear bomb, it is dubbed Father of All Bombs and is as large but four times more powerful, than American-made Mother of All Bombs, tested in 2003.Av0id3r 15:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The Father of all bombs article is a stub with less than 250 words. Can it be expanded ? --PFHLai 08:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • I've been away for over a month, so I have missed a lot, but this topic doesn't seem to have been brought up yet: the disappearance of Steve Fossett. With every day, the chances of him surviving become slimmer and slimmer. If he is indeed found dead, should it be added to ITN? (I think it's better to come to some form of consensus in advance, before we have certainty on his fate.) AecisBrievenbus 22:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Why not? Fosset hit the main page once before - on March 4, 2005... --Camptown 22:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Seems to meet rule No. 5.... --Camptown 23:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, it does meet #5. -- Dandelions 00:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Is this really news? I'm wondering how many people actually know who she is. At any rate, we didn't add Pavarotti to the ITN, so I see no reason why we should add her. --Plasma Twa 2 02:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
She is was a successful business woman, more of less legendary in her field. --Camptown 08:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I support this being included. It's completely unexpected, she is well known at least in Commonwealth countries, and the article is more than decent.-gadfium 09:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
She is not well known in Comonwealth countries. I have yet to see anything about her death in a newspaper. Pavarotti was universally known, and we didn't add him, nor anyone else who has died recently. --Plasma Twa 2
Her death was definitely mentioned in NZ in the papers and on TV. Also the reason we didn't meantion Pavarotti et al was because none of them meet rule 5. While many have been "key figure in their field of expertise" their death was not really "unexpectedly or tragically". All of them were significantly older then Anita Roddick (who as a woman has a longer average life span) and/or had pre-existing medical conditions which suggested they might be going to die soon and they indeed died of these medical conditions (pancreatic cancer in Pavarotti's case). Roddick was 64, old but still at an age where a death is fairly unexpected and although she had Hepatitis C and had developed liver cirrhosis as a result neither of these are necessarily life threatening nor does her death appear to have anything to do with her condition. It appears to me she met the unexpectedly or tragically part. Personally I feel she also meets the "key figure in their field of expertise". She may not have been as 'big' as Pavarotti or some of the others we missed but she was still a key figure in her field of expertise. BTW while Canada is a Commonwealth country, as are many other countries I think what Gadfium is referring to is probably the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ and perhaps South Africa (and perhaps also some of the smaller Carribean countries etc). Canada is somewhat different from these as it much more strongly influenced by the US. Nil Einne 19:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Support. Roddick was a very special business entrepreneur, and her death was indeed both unexpected and tragic. The article is in good shape and has been reasonably updated during the last couple of days. --Bondkaka 21:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
We still get British news up here. We aren't as American Junior as everyone thinks. I still don't think this is big enough. If your looking for an "unexpectedly or tragically" death that we didn't include, then go look at the arguement over Benoit. Just because a death was unexpected or tragic shouldn't mean it goes on while other, more notable deaths do not. --Plasma Twa 2 21:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
But, I understand that the relative level notablitiy is not the main concern under rule #5. --Camptown 22:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't saying that you didn't get any British news simply that you have a far greater US influence then much of the rest of the English speaking commonwealth or heck much of the commonwealth. Also, as I explained, I agree we shouldn't feature every unexpected or tragic death but this is irrelevant when it comes to deciding if we should mention her death. I'm still of the opinion she was key figure in her field of expertise which is surely the only relevant issue. The fact that we didn't feature Pavarotti et al is IMHO irrelevant (there was no doubt that they were key figures in the field of expertise, also see my reply to Mav below). Benoit is a fairly poor example since he wasn't exactly an extremely noteable person in professinal wrestling and professinal wrestling is a fairly non-noteable field anyway. Nil Einne 21:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Object We didn't include Pavarotti and his death hit the front page of many major newspapers. --mav 22:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Certainly, but unlike Anita Roddick, Pavarotti wasn't eligible under rule #5 (i.e. ITN is not an obituary) --Camptown 22:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I disagree since she was retired. --mav 22:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Does that really affect whether she was a key figure in her field of expertise though? Nil Einne 21:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
She was a key figure up to the point of her retirement. She did not die as a key figure. --mav 04:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Again the reason we didn't include Pavarotti was because it wasn't unexpected or tragic. Can you explain precisely why you object to this under the criteria? So far, all I'm hearing from you and most objectors is she wasn't a key figure in her field of expertise because Pavarotti's death wasn't unexpected or tragic which doesn't make much sense... Nil Einne 21:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

September 10

:Support. Going to have worldwide political consequences, will cause serious ructions for the next few days. Recurring dreams 12:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't support. I believe this should be mentioned but the article is currently [5] a mess. Other then the neutrality tag, even the section mentioning the controversy is very bad in places e.g.
"Even Benazir's taunts have not evoke response from Nawaz as he seems sure of PPP cooperation in the end at local level despite US and UK trying to mediate Musharaf -PPP alliance . Musharaf and his colleagues are worried . It seems Pakistan is in for a rough ride for a while but as grand coalition gradually forms things will settle down for a while ."
Nil Einne 17:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, fair enough. I should have read the Nawaz Sharif page more carefully. It is an awful mess. Recurring dreams 07:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

September 9

Object. Bolded article is a stub. --mav 04:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
We could make something of this, other than just the results. The artcile (despite being a stub) contains a few interesting points.
However the article needs to be improved and expanded a little first and the stub template removed. --Monotonehell 08:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
At least, it is not a stub anymore. --Camptown 16:38, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, considering systemic bias, I doubt that the article can be improved much more. Unless someone can point out a problem I think this should be included now. --Monotonehell 16:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Don't support that wording. Try
The other wording seems to imply that the low voter turnout was the cause of Istiqlal Party winning the most seats or that Istiqlal Party would not have won the most seats if there was a higher turnout but these are unproven and not even mentioned in the article
Nil Einne 17:54, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. No reason ;) Yes, I see the problem you mention. Perhaps a full stop is the answer?
--Monotonehell 08:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
The results table is incomplete. --PFHLai 08:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


Not sure why this suggestion was left unattended here.
This is probably too old now. We have newer sports stories coming in soon. --PFHLai 08:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Support: I don't see why not. New World record, reasonably up to date and substantial article. --Monotonehell 16:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
New world records are a rarity these days when athletes are not supposed to take performance-enhancing drugs. --Camptown 16:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
"Not supposed to..." I like that lol --Monotonehell 16:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Support: The argument against including the recent World Championships was that "we already include the Olympics and World Records". Kevin McE 19:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
One more for inclusion. The last breaking of a record was on the Main page as well. I think it's important enough. --Tone 21:04, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Support, and BTW, it is already on the German Wikipedia's main page. --Bondkaka 21:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Question: Was he the same guy that broke the record last year? Otherwise, support. --Howard the Duck 01:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
The records also tend to change by very little nowadays. It's not just because of the lack of people taking illicit drugs that but the fact that we're probably reaching the limits of the human performance ability. Sure some freaks of nature like Ian Thorpe with his very big feet sometimes make a major splash but on the whole I think we're starting to approach the limits. In the past e.g. 30 years ago there was still big room for improvement so we saw more frequent and larger record changes. For females athletes they are still somewhat behind their male counterparts IMHO we are still seeing more major record changes. Anyway in conclusion yes I support it being on ITN Nil Einne 17:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Commons:Image:Osaka07 D1M M100M Heat Astafa Powell.jpg shouldn't be used as is, 'coz it's not the same race. I tried cropping, but couldn't get a decent picture of Powell. Anyone here familiar with Flickr Reviews ? Commons:Image:Asafa Powell.jpg ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonaswitt/232975493/ ) is cc-by-sa-2.0 and may be cropped for use on ITN, but it hasn't passed the Flickr Review yet. It's same guy, right ? --PFHLai 08:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I added the picture from the Osaka race before I saw the discussion here. I think that as long as we note in the rollover caption that the picture isn't from the same race, we can use this photo. It's reasonably up-to-date, and it's a dramatic, free photo of the subject doing the thing which makes him notable. I don't think that the fact that other sprinters are included in the photo matters — it shows Powell in the lead, and I've indicated which one he is by the text (pictured, right). Is there a problem with that? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 18:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
It's okay. I thought that might be a little misleading. No one complains, so don't worry about it. --PFHLai 08:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

September 8

Just throwing this up as a possibility. The games close on the 8th, which would be the appropriate time to list them on ITN. It's certainly international, and we have a fairly decent article on the games, but it isn't getting much media attention outside the Pacific nations.-gadfium 20:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I think this is an excellent candidate for DYK. Specifically the line "In contrast to the Olympic Games which are expected to generate income for the host nation[1], the 2007 Pacific Games are expected to leave Samoa US$92 million in debt, predominantly as a result of expenditure on large-scale infrastructure projects such as bridges and roads." Although the page's age might be a consideration. I'm not sure where to stand on this as an ITN candidate. It's yet another regional sporting event that could be considered lesser than the summer Olympics. But it's not just one sport. It's a collection of events. If it isn't suited to DYK, I might support it going into ITN on the financial line, so that there's something to report on? Convince me. --Monotonehell 04:31, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
The article is far too old for DYK.-gadfium 06:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Support. Need to wait for the real news to write an article on the closing first so this can be properly listed at Current Events. --mav 04:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
The games have closed, and the article updated with information about the closing ceremony. I've also added a line to Portal:Current_events/Sports for 8 September.-gadfium
On ITN now. --mav 22:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

September 7

Why not? This is an interesting news item (GA-class) that even involves celebrities such as Pope Benedict XVI and David Beckham. --Camptown 23:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
ITN is not a news service. On going news updates like this isn't the kind of thing we tend to include in ITN. That's what Wikinews is for. This issue would need to be resolved and the article brought to the kind of retrospective style that one would expect from an encyclopedia before it would be considered for inclusion. Even though the subject has received some international media curiosity, it's still a fairly local phenomenon and so doesn't pass the international importance/interest criterion. --Monotonehell 02:24, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Although I would not be in favour of promoting the McCann story to ITN, I would ask where your comment that this does not pass the international criteria stands in the light of your insistence that 2 countries is international. Kevin McE 09:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
The story is only of curiosity outside of its home region. To be of international importance or interest it would need to have some kind of substantial impact on the economic, political or social aspects of two or more countries. --Monotonehell 12:41, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
But the story has 2 "home regions" (Portugal and UK) Kevin McE 12:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Well I could be wrong on this one then. --Monotonehell 13:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Personally I think most people have forgotten about the case by now. I.E. we missed the boat. Even this update is relatively a minor thing. If and when someone is charged in relation to the disappearence then perhaps it'll be of sufficient interest again but until then... Nil Einne 15:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Update:

The only news I've heard of this was on Larry King Live. We had kids going missing over in Canada a few years ago. First a girl from Toronto, then one from Regina. It was a notable national event, and it was tragic, but a child going missing is not all that notable. It's mainly a regional thing. --Plasma Twa 2 18:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
It's actually reported worldwide, much due to the involvment of the Pope and other dignitaries. I start to think that ITN is getting pretty boring when only elected officials and notable disasters seem to meet the criteria. --Camptown 22:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[[:Image:World cup.png|100px|The Official Logo|right|This logo can't be displayed on the Wikipedia namespace and at the Main Page. --Howard the Duck 09:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)]]

ChrisDHDR 19:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Very Strong Support It is a MAJOR championship in a major sport with teams representing countries from all continents. Marco Alfarrobinha {chat}contributions 20:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that article is updated how about "Argentina defeat hosts France 17–12 in the opening match of the 2007 Rugby World Cup." The article has been updated now, and the event is rugby union's biggest. Only every four years so please include on main page. - Shudde talk 21:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that it's started. If it's going to go up, it'll go up after the finale, just like every other championship. --Plasma Twa 2 23:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Thats not true. It's not necessary to only post on it *after* the championship. The thing that annoys me is that nearly everytime a rugby union related news event is nominated people say "no, no, it's not the sports biggest event". And now they are saying we aren't going to put it up unless it's the final, which is once every four years?! Yet domestic leagues get news posted up all the time, and not always once a final has been contested. This is a very notable match, and deserves to be on the main page:
  • It's the sports biggest event, and even though it's not the final, the fact that it has started is still news.
  • It's the first time it's been hosted outside a non-English speaking country
  • Although Argentina is a good team, that France lost is still a very notable upset
  • The host has reached the final in four out of five World Cups, so for France to lose in front of their home crowd in these circumstances is quite novel.
  • This is a global event involving teams from every continent (bar the obvious—Antarctica)
Anyway I think it should be up there. There are only three news items up there and unlike many news items this is a global thing, rather then a regional one. - Shudde talk 03:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
If you would like to see evidence to support my argument; see this old template from last years Football World Cup. Not only did it have an item it has its own section! - Shudde talk 03:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes it is true. ITN only includes the final result of the final of the highest level competition in any one sport. Domestic leauges are not posted all the time, or in any case they should not be (sometimes an item is added unilaterally by a good faith edit from an admin who is not familiar with the criteria, and usually removed soon afterwards). If this competition is considered as the highest level event in Union then the final result can be included. But ITN is not a news service, no constant updates thank you. If you want to write news, please help out our sister project Wikinews which was forked from Wikipedia for just this reason. :) --Monotonehell 04:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Please don't compare this to the FIFA World Cup. That can be considered a rare case, due to the size of the event. Something the size of that, or say the Olympic games should be the only ones that have an entry saying when it starts. --Plasma Twa 2 04:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
This event is the third biggest (behind those two) sporting event in the world (see Rugby World Cup). At least in terms of cumulative audience. This is a ridiculous case of double standards. I'm not advocating a separate section for ITN like the Football, but simply one news item included in the template. This is consistent with what has happened for large sporting events in the past. - Shudde talk 04:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
However, note the very large gap in attendance between the FIFA World Cup and the Rugby World Cup. The FIFA World Cup has near twice the attendance, as well as tons more coverage in places like North America. --Plasma Twa 2 05:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Before you two carry off on an argument over relative size or notability; these factors have no bearing on inclusion. FIFA is undoubtedly the top of football in terms of competition. It has been widely realised that bowing to pressure to have a FIFA scoreboard in ITN was a mistake. It was since then that the concept of only allowing the final result of the final of the top level of competition has been applied. Several times a unilaterally acting admin has added (in good faith) other sporting events against this concept, and on other occasions there has been disagreement as to what constitutes the top level of competition. But all that aside, ITN does not announce the start of any sports event, unless there's some notable happening that makes it interesting enough to add. Even adding the start of APEC has been delayed until it concludes (see below). When the final is over, the article substantially updated with more than just the score, then it can be added. --Monotonehell 07:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I thought the recent consensus was that it's okay to put the next FIFA World Cup or the RWC or any such thing provided the article is up to scratch and multiple news sources like the BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera and some Chinese news source has it on their front page? 08:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Add the result of the finale, and nothing else. --Howard the Duck 09:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Monotone has once again referred to a after the final of the top level of competition only criteria. I cannot see this in the ITN criteria. Is there a reference to the debate in which consensus for this criterion was established? Kevin McE 10:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think there was any one discussion that I can point to. One big one I remember was this one but there had been discussions on the subject before then. And general consensus was gained on this gradually after a couple of high profile arguments over particular items (mostly domestic US match results) which lead to the adoption of the highest level rule. As at one point ITN was almost completely filled with sports. Can anyone else help with the location of the discussion in the archives? --Monotonehell 13:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I can't find it, but I think it's safe to say that, only the sporting events that technically have no final winner should have the "______ Starts" or "______ Ends". It's not the best description, but basically I'm saying events like the Olympics, Commonwealth, and Pan-Am Games. --Plasma Twa 2 18:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Or the World Athletics Championships, as I proposed a couple of weeks ago, or the current proposal of the South Pacific Games. Kevin McE 00:31, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Object for now. Wait until this is over. --mav 22:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

September 6

What's the actual record set? It's not mentioned in your headline nor is it obvious from the article. --Monotonehell 10:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Top speed 202mph, and the journey took just over 2 hours, which is a lot faster than normal. Personally, I think it's better to wait til the line's properly open and is carrying real passengers; I would imagine its opening (Nov 14th) would be a candidate for ITN but I think this is too early. -- Dandelions 11:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Just throwing this out there. Pavarotti was "a key figure in their field of expertise", whether he "died unexpectedly or tragically" is another question. Evil Monkey - Hello 05:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Support. I was surprised to hear the news that he died. I knew he'd been ill, but not that he was in such a bad way. The "died unexpectedly or tragically rule" seems pointless imo, some people should be nominated irregardless of the manner of their death. I'll let others discuss that elsewhere. Yorkshiresky 06:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
While I would personally tend to support putting this up, it does not satisfy ITN criteria 5. Thue | talk 09:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Probably not eligible per the Ingmar Bergman discussion. Maybe there should be a separate obituary section on the main page? --Camptown 09:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes as above, Criterion 5. ITN is not an obituary. --Monotonehell 10:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Support, despite not fulfilling "unexpectedly or tragically". -- Dandelions 11:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
A new section called "Recent deaths" would be more appropriate for this item. I suggested a reform of the Main page - see this discussion --Camptown 11:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
STRONG SUPPORT. He was without a doubt a legend in his area of expertise and was world-renown. And how could you call his death NOT tragic. He was admitted to the hospital like a week ago where they basically said he was "okay" and the next thing you know they are announcing his death. He had cancer, yes, but his death was quite unexpected so suddenly. I couldn't believe it when I looked at CNN. The great kawa 12:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Support as per the great kawa, since it was an unexpected death; yes, people may know he's sick but nobody expected him to die this early. --Howard the Duck 12:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
If the rules regarding deaths stop us from putting up items like this, then lets change the rules. A quick search shows this is headline news on BBC News (British), CNN (American), The Australian (self-explanatory) and Beeld (South African). This is definitely "a story of an international importance, or at least interest". Hammer Raccoon 13:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Be careful with that metric. ITN is not a news service, so weight of coverage in the media is not a good indicator of a item's importance. The media often run with stories that do not satisfy the purpose and criteria of an encyclopedia. We should be examining this item on its merits with regard to ITN's criteria. There's a good reason why we have criterion #5.
In this case the article is in very good shape, so it satisfies the quality test. The only question is regarding criterion #5. Now I thought that he'd been seriously ill for over a year. But now that I read the article, this was a recent bout that he was expected to recover from. So perhaps this was a sudden death? --Monotonehell 13:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I think The great kawa's arguments are sound. Since this is the unexpected death of an leader in his field it passes criterium 5. Unless somebody objects strongly I am going to put it into ITN. Thue | talk 13:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
There is no way I can support this while the death of Mstislav Rostropovich was taken down from ITN. Not only was Slava just as important in this field, but he was a prominent political activist.--Swattie 13:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't really respect arguments of the form "I didn't get what I want, so you can't either". Thue | talk 13:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Rostropovich's non-inclusion was due to his article not being updated. If I recall correctly. Pavarotti's article is up to date. --Monotonehell 13:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I and many in the public were under the impression that even up to a week ago that Luciano Pavarotti was in decent health and was only in the hospital for something mild, such as pneumonia or basic treatment (indeed that is how many news services reported it). And suddenly one week later he drops dead only a few hours after they mention his "health is declining." If that is not sudden and unexpected, I do not know what is. Article 5 is there so that when any old person of relative fame dies quite normally, we don't have an immediate ITN item on them. But Luciano Pavarotti is far from a person of "relative" fame and his death was extremely far from "expected." The great kawa 14:25, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Support --TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:20, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Personally I disagree. For me, if someone is 71 and has had cancer recently, their death can hardly be 'unexpected' but after the Gonzales thing I'm not going to argue the point except to say that a lot of people die in similar circumstances to this and IMHO it amounts to a relaxation of the criteria from previous discussions. I'm not sayimg that's necessarily a bad thing but it's worth considering. Nil Einne 18:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Glad to see it on there, even if it only rights some of the wrongs of the James Brown ordeal. Teemu08 19:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank goodness someone else thought of Brown when they saw the front page. Since when isn't it the expectation that 71 year old people with nasty cancers aren't going to die shortly? I was willing to go along with not posting Brown as long as the criterion was applied consistently at that strict level. If this stays up, it is clearly stating that not posting Brown, Milton Friedman and other recently deceased giants in their field was a mistake. Who wants to rewrite the criterion? - BanyanTree 14:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

ITN item now says he died of complications from the surgery. The article doesn't mention that. Xiner (talk) 17:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The image shown on the mainpage is a wax figure of Pavarotti and I think it should be removed, but am unsure how to do that. The text says Pavarotti (pictured) but that is a wax figure, not a photograph. --Pixelface 22:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes. Lots of editors are being fooled by that, I think. It's quite funny. Carcharoth 23:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Just want to pick up on the comments some people are saying that his death was unexpected. Read pancreatic cancer. It's a nasty cancer. Very high mortality rate. As soon as I heard he was "in a serious condition" and "had pancreatic cancer", I mentally wrote him off. From pancreatic cancer: "Median survival from diagnosis is around 3 to 6 months; 5-year survival is much less than 5% [...] the highest fatality rate of all cancers." So let's stop claiming this was unexpected. Very sad, but not unexpected. Even so, I support it appearing on ITN for a while. It is more important that a variety of updated articles are put on ITN, rather than rigorously enforcing the "not an obituary" rule. If there is nothing else available, an article updated by news of a death should be acceptable. But remove it if something else comes along. Carcharoth 23:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Shame, shame, shame. Every 5 min the story appears and then disappears. IMO he was more notable than Boris Yeltsin (who was on the main page) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Probably not more notable than Yeltsin... However, notability is not the main criterion for a successful nomination. --Camptown 14:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

September 5

This is like a hurricane 5 in Sweden: Possibly the first Swedish Defence Secretary in history to resign due to disagreement within the cabinet. And the new, certainly the first conscientious objector to become one. --Camptown 16:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Potential support. I think the article on Mikael Odenberg needs more detail on why he resigned, first.-gadfium 20:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC) (after checking to see if Monotonehell is active - very good ;) )
Support. It doesn't matter if it's Sweden, it's a minister resigning. If we do it almost everytime an American resigns, we should do it whenever anyone else does. --Plasma Twa 2 21:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
We don't tend to include "everytime an American resigns" most of those are added unilaterally by admins who work outside of this process. Internal politics should only be included where there's International interest. Has there been any International fallout regarding this? --Monotonehell 23:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
This could be also be added to the Felix comment. ---CWY2190TC 02:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

September 3

--New England Review Me!/Go Red Sox! 15:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't even have prose on what happened, so it won't satisfy the criteria. --Howard the Duck 17:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
ITN only lists sporting events at the top level of International competition. Since this is a qualifier, it is not the top level of International competition. --Monotonehell 22:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know about that, since the finalists are the two top teams in the FIBA World Rankings, so it can be considered as "top competition." --Howard the Duck 06:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Not only does this precede the Summer Olympics, but it also precedes FIBA's own World Championships. So..? Anyway I thought it was decided that the NBA was the pinnacle of basketball? Do we need proponents of each sport to nominate what the top level actually is? Because there seems to be a lot that claim it. --Monotonehell 08:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
This was the argument used to exclude the 2007 AFC Asian Cup final, even though the story was not just about football per se; they were not the top competition. However, I'd suggest to limit basketball stories to three items: NBA Finals (annually), FIBA World Championship (every 4 years) and the Olympics (every 4 years-alternate with the FIBA WC every 2 years). Of course, we may allow other really extraordinary events, like perhaps an intercontinental tourney final taking 10 overtimes to finish, and so on. Soccer fans would like to say that the only sports-related item that should appear at the ITN, but that's for another day... --Howard the Duck 10:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Any extraordinary 'non-score' event can help an item qualify regardless of level of competition. We're only talking about scores here. I'd say your list of 3 sounds fair for scores. So back to this item, it doesn't qualify?--Monotonehell 23:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, so you are willing to admit 6 basketball events in a 4 year cycle, but only 1 athletics event in the same timeframe: proportionate??? Kevin McE 01:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Basketball has a considerable following. Can't say about athletics. I don't see the Athletics Championships being covered by ESPN Star Sports, the pan-Asian sports broadcaster, considering the championships are held at Osaka, an Asian city. You might as well petition the Boston, NYC and London Marathon, too. Also, we tend to post world records, especially at the 100m dash, but they happen relatively rare. --Howard the Duck 04:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
No I'm not happy about that. I think it should be ONE for each sport as we decided previously. But rabid fans of certain sports flood these pages, so I'm willing to bend on some points. Although it isn't unreasonable to allow more items from sports that have events only every 4 years. I guess... gah.
"ITN IS NOT A SCOREBOARD!" Is my actual stance of the whole thing and personally I'd say that no sports results would be preferable. I liken it to the weather - we have weather (and sports) all week every week. We only report on major storms that have a substantial effect with the weather (and hence we should only report on sports that have a substantial effect). --Monotonehell 03:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, what are sports results that have a substantial effect? Of ocurse any international competition like FIFA (Which is really different then any other single sport international event considering it's size), or the Olympic/Commonwealth type games. What about leagues? It's an English wiki, so we got the NFL, the MLB, NBA, and NHL. What about MLS or the CFL (I'm using these two cause I don't really know of any other large leagues)? While MLS isn't neseccarily the highest level of soccer, the CFL is the highest level of Canadian football, so do we put the Grey Cup in even though it's an only Canadian league (We should, actually...), even though MLS is almost as big? --Plasma Twa 2 05:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd rather limit American sports on the "Big 4". --Howard the Duck 07:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
By substantial effect, I mean something that has a lasting effect. Most big sports have an ephemeral effect, but are soon forgotten. A couple of days after FIFA finished, it was finished. Sure there's some social and financial impact, but when you consider the big picture it's just entertainment. --Monotonehell 09:42, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Howard, that's all well and good, but, unfortuantely, Canada isn't a part of America. This is a rare case. What do we do here? We have the four big leagues, and then there is a big difference between them and everyone else. You want to keep the American leagues at that, but we have a Canadian league that is only a little bigger then an North American league. --Plasma Twa 2 21:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I was referring to Major North American professional sports leagues. Anything other than that is too minor. We might as well add the winner of the AFL Finals Series if we'll add the Grey Cup winner. --Howard the Duck 01:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, the AFL and CFL are different. The CFL is a major league in Canada, and the highest level of canadian football. It's bigger then the AFL, too. It's more of a matter on to add the CFL or MLS. --Plasma Twa 2 03:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The AFL (Australian Football League) is broadcast internationally, especially in Asia/Oceania, and while the CFL is broadcast internationally too, the interest in the countries it is broadcast is too little. As for the MLS, we might as well add the results of every European football competitions, not just the UEFA Champions League, if we'll report the MLS. --Howard the Duck 05:18, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
(undent)Again it's of no matter how BIG a competition is. Only that any one result is that of the final competition of the highest level of competition. So the AFL grand final qualifies. Possibly the final of the CFL also qualifies if we consider it a different sport to that of US gridiron. --Monotonehell 05:25, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's quite the different sport. But, lets save this discussion for when one of these events actually happen. --Plasma Twa 2 06:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


The APEC summit kicks off, with the leaders of Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, China, Hong Kong, China, Indonesia, Japan, Republic of Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Peru , Philippines, Russia, Singapore, Chinese Taipei, Thailand, United States of America and Vietnam all in Sydney for the event. --Viva43 08:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Reformatted for you. Sounds like a good one. --Monotonehell 09:10, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Support. ITN should either have the start or finish of APEC, maybe both. Recurring dreams 08:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I also support this going on ITN.-gadfium 08:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
(gadfium - quit edit conflicting with me! ;) ) It's difficult as we're not a news service, perhaps the finish when there's a complete article. --Monotonehell 08:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
After the summits are over when they've produced anything then we should report, but as of now, put it on hold (that is of course something else untoward happens during the course of the summit). --Howard the Duck 10:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I support it. The large scale of the meeting aside, three of the four largest English speaking countries are involved (Australia, Canada, and America. Only Britian is missing), so it is surely notable enough for ITN. --Plasma Twa 2 05:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the 5 largest English speaking countries are USA, India, Nigeria, UK and the Philippines, and only 3 are APEC members, but it's off-topic already.... --Howard the Duck 05:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

September 2

Is there any reason why this suggestion was left unattended ? Were responses lost after edit conflicts? --PFHLai 08:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
If somebody updates current events, then I'll add it (looks like some unofficial fighting lasted until the 7th or 8th). --mav 22:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and just added it. --mav 22:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)