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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/November 2008

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Archived discussion for November 2008 from Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates.

November 30

ITN candidates for November 30

November 29

ITN candidates for November 29

Wording: Rioting after a contested election in Jos, Nigeria kills over 381 and injured hundreds. SpencerT♦C 03:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

November 28

ITN candidates for November 28

  • Suggesting update for Mumbai terror attacks:
The hostage drama ends. All terrorists hiding in Taj Hotel and Nariman House are killed. [1] --128.211.201.161 (talk) 02:55, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

November 27

ITN candidates for November 27

I think this will be a viable candidate, because although it was not a commercial flight it involved total loss of a major aircraft. Although the articles Air New Zealand and XL Airways Germany have been minimally updated, we should wait for an article on this specific incident to include it on ITN.-gadfium 20:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
The specific article is 2008 Air New Zealand A320 test flight crash, although it's still a bit too stubby for ITN.-gadfium 18:24, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
There's a article for 2008 Thai political crisis. It should be linked from the blurb, but I'd say this is more important than the airbus crash. Random89 03:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
2008 Thai political crisis is not updated yet. The updated materials are People's Alliance for Democracy#Seizure of Suvarnabhumi International Airport... --199.71.174.100 (talk) 03:15, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
The update should be in the Crisis article as well, since this should be the bolded link in the blurb. I'll support the inclusion then. --Tone 10:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Updated. Posted. Advice and/or modifications of the wording would be great.--chaser - t 02:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

November 26

ITN candidates for November 26

  • Something on Thailand?

The Thai political crisis worsens, as the PAD blockades Bangkok's two major airports, Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang --Flewis(talk) 13:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The article needs an updated paragraph. We currently have single sentences scattered about. SpencerT♦C 16:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the news on Greenlandic self-government referendum, 2008 should be added.--Avala (talk) 16:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Support. Do you have any wording ideas? SpencerT♦C 12:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Support. Before posting, the paragraph with the actual referendum question should be improved a bit, though. Wording would be something like People of Greenland vote for greater autonomy at a referendum. --Tone 13:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I'll look into cleanup.SpencerT♦C 16:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Paragraph at Greenlandic_self-government_referendum,_2008#Results expanded. SpencerT♦C 16:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
10 people have been killed in Mumbai. That's the news. KensplanetTalkContributions 18:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Mumbai Terror Attacks 2008

This new user alerted me to the Mumbai Terror attacks :(. It is a bit short right now, but perhaps we should add it soon? - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 19:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

He should have added atleat November there. KensplanetTalkContributions 19:10, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Moved page - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 19:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I suggest merging with 26 November 2008 Mumbai attacks‎. 2 article not required KensplanetTalkContributions 19:17, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not a primary contributor, but I will tag it for merging. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 19:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
No need of tagging. Such mistakes do happen for Current events. KensplanetTalkContributions 19:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

November 25

ITN candidates for November 25

  • Is there an article for the Thailand protests - its headline news here (in the UK) and could have profound implications for the political leadership in the country --Daviessimo (talk) 09:29, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

November 24

ITN candidates for November 24

  • Is there an article for the Brazil floods. On the current events for today I've added the story with a link to 2008 Santa Catarina Floods. However before I start this article I wondered if someone may have already done so. --Daviessimo (talk) 19:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I've started the article at 2008 Santa Catarina Floods to get rid of that redlink. I'll try and expand it soon --Daviessimo (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Yup, no other duplicate article as of now. Good choice. Let admins know when you are done. I support. --GPPande talk! 19:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
OK. I've expanded the article a bit, but at the moment information is patchy although there is an up to date confirmed death toll. --Daviessimo (talk) 20:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Included. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :D 05:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

November 23

ITN candidates for November 23

Support. --GPPande talk! 20:27, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I second that. --Daviessimo (talk) 15:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Final results announced Wednesday. SpencerT♦C 21:04, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. SpencerT♦C 12:36, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

November 22

ITN candidates for November 22

Sorry, very very speculative news. Such news sample based studies always appear. This is not a theorem or nature's law or proven cause like mosquito bite cause malaria. --GPPande talk! 16:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
  • If it can be sufficiently updated I nominate New Zealand winning the Rugby League World Cup. It may not be the big one in terms of rugby, but its still an international tournament and realistically the best of... well not a great selection shall we say. --Daviessimo (talk) 20:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
It certainly merits consideration at least; but it should also go on the page as international tournament winners frequently do and rugby is major, ie- not fringe, sport. Lihaas (talk) 21:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay, ignoring notability/consideration now, there is no prose about the final. If this has any chance of going up, there needs to be a paragraph of quality, ref-ed text. SpencerT♦C 22:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Major annual event with member states making up as much as 60% of world GDP. 130.113.81.33 (talk) 11:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer to wait until it ends and use some of the conclusions in the blurb. --Tone 11:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
The summit has ended. Is it ready to be posted now? 130.113.81.33 (talk) 23:38, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Any conclusions reached? Also, the article needs some work first. Suggest a headline, please. --Tone 23:41, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • As with the Rugby one if the Nevado del Huila article can be updated I think this warrants going up. After all when was the last Volcanic eruption on ITN? I've made a start but i'm off to work so if someone else can finish that would be great. --Daviessimo (talk) 10:39, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
We haven't had volcanos for a long time here, if the article is expanded, this is a good item. --Tone 11:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
On 13 July 2008, In the news was updated with Mount Okmok eruption :-) --GPPande talk! 13:55, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I have expanded this latest eruption section as much as I can. No more news are currently available on google maybe due to the extremely remote location. But I am sure more news would come by. The death toll + evacuation measures make this news ITN deserving. Please evaluate and if possible - post it. --GPPande talk! 14:38, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:49, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks - that was a quick update and nice blurb. --GPPande talk! 15:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
He was surely a very prominent person in Maldives and imprints of his work are still seen there. The death criteria rules (that have gained prior consensus) state -
  • The unexpected death (whether by natural causes, accident, or violence) of a person in a prominent office or position may warrant inclusion (eg, national leaders, prominent experts, celebrated artists, etc.);
  • The unexpected death of a person precipitating a series of subsequent newsworthy events may warrant inclusion (eg, several Wikipedia articles in addition to a biography need to be updated).
  • There are people of extreme importance or notability whose deaths, even if not unexpected and not requiring major updates to their article, may warrant inclusion.
I think the person fails extreme importance and his death was not unexpected. He probably had little influence outside his nation. People like Pope John Paul II, Queen Mother, Mother Teresa and others had inspired people in many nations and they influenced many societies across globe. Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Kofi Annan are few living personalities recognized world over for their respective work. --GPPande talk! 21:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
It's updated now, meets that. He was president for 10 years (2 terms). I think being president is very notable, but also: 1. He signed an agreement with Britain to gain the full independence of the country. 2. He modernized the country's fishing industry and introduced tourism, for which the Maldives is now famous. 3. Was PM as well for 11 years. 4. He got the Maldives added to the UN. Personally, I find it pretty notable, and there's certainly international interest...though as you say, weak international importance (except for the independence part).SpencerT♦C 21:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm on the fence with this on. On the one hand by applying the notability test I's say no. If you went out and asked someone what he was famous for would they know why? With Nelson Mandela, Gandhi or George Bush people would. BUT... On the flipside he was by virute of being president (I'm assuming it was a republic), head of state and I would suggest the deaths of former heads of state do warrant inclusion. Not sure I've been much help. --Daviessimo (talk) 15:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I thought on this one. I think the rules set down for death criteria are too strict (as per my understanding). This was done not to flood ITN and make it look like an obituary. But, this does not appear to be the case in recent months. So lets not chase a ghost. I would say lets go for the news this time. He was surely notable (as I agreed earlier) though not extremely important in terms of world stage. But again, the word "extreme" is very subjective and can vary with sentiments. John McCain, even though lost the election, might still qualify as "extremely" important and nobody here would be able to hold the flood of editors here if it had to happen (Just an example – nothing more). Sorry if the update was on hold due to me. --GPPande talk! 17:43, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay, its been 30 hours with no update, and he was a past head of state who modernized the Maldives. I realize that I may have some COI with this, but still it is the best item on the board for now. Posting. SpencerT♦C 20:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

November 21

ITN candidates for November 21

Usually we would feature buildings when they are officially opeded, not when the construction is halted...--Tone 11:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Plus this is not unique. All across Europe and the wider world construction programmes are being halted due to prevailing economic conditions. --Daviessimo (talk) 20:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Updated that blurb again. Keeps getting more and more notable... Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :D 05:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Clarified it gramatically; new version is "The United Nations Security Council votes unanimously to reinforce MONUC, the largest peacekeeping force in the world, stationed in Nord-Kivu, Democratic Republic of the Congo." Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :D 05:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Yup. But now, the news has been on top for almost 4 days. I think we should let it get buried down till something more significant like a peace accord or ceasefire happens. That would be next time this can surely qualify. A major drawback of one single news remaining on ITN for long period is that people visiting main page feel the section is not being updated regularly. --GPPande talk! 07:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Well, the conflict keeps escalating. Never before has the UN had this many peacekeepers in a country and then reinforced them; multiple sides are still getting involved, and 1,200 are dying a day. I'm probably slightly biased because of my feelings towards war, so I won't make the call here. However, I'd like to state one important thing; news in ITN isn't added to keep the section fresh, but based on the international notability of the item. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :D 08:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
I tend to agree with gppande. This story went up prior to the penguin and transplant but is now above them. Also every little thing that happens in the conflict should not be put up unless they are significant within broader political, economic or social circumstances. After all this is a war, deaths are expected, buildings will be destroyed, people will be displaced etc. --Daviessimo (talk) 14:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
As a compromise, I suggest that if this item is updated, it is not moved to the top of the list every time. Then, it will be replaced by others in a week or so. If there is some major development, we can bring it back easily. --Tone 15:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

November 20

ITN candidates for November 20

That was already up, just reworded blurb; thought I'd put that here to tell people. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 02:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Is 'promote' really the proper word here? MookieZ (talk) 16:33, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Waitaha penguin has the article now. But it is far too short. When expanded, this is a nice story. --Tone 11:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
The article is better now. Posting. --Tone 08:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Here is something fairly interesting. Remains of Copernicus found. i dont know how big of a story this is but he is very famous. I am just thinking if they were to find like da vinci's (i dont even know if they are lost! just an example) remains would we post that or not... Ashishg55 (talk) 20:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, interesting. But is there an update for this on any article? --GPPande talk! 07:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
The price of oil has a huge effect on the world economy, and by extension the world history. See for example the 1979 energy crisis. The price of a barrel falling belog $50 is a nice milestone for putting it ITN. Thue | talk 23:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Cannot go until something significant has caused this. As of now, only market forces (demand and supply) are driving the crude oil down which is not significant. These force keep on fluctuating. The 1979 oil crisis was a result of strong political events and so was significant. Nothing of that sort here. Also, article just has a single line update. --GPPande talk! 07:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

November 19

ITN candidates for November 19

  • Two nice options today, the penguin and the transplantation. There is no article about the penguin yet and we would need a focus of the transplant article. --Tone 11:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
The transplantation gets my vote. ––bender235 (talk) 16:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
The transplantation story definitely, for its breakthrough use of stem cells and tissue engineering. Thue | talk 17:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
In any case, we need an article update on it, is there any? --Tone 17:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Not really as far as I can tell - but it is mentioned at Adult_stem_cell#First_transplanted_human_organ_grown_from_adult_stem_cells. Thue | talk 18:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd support either, although I'd tend to agree that the transplant story is much more important in terms of potential implications --Daviessimo (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
This is too short. But if it is expanded a little, like 5 more sentences, then it will be ok. It shouldn't be too hard to improve it. --Tone 23:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Support on the piracy front. The mentioned Indian vessel has played a strong part, perhaps the strongest, in the current battle with Somali pirates. Plus it is also contributing to a growing Indian foreign policy assertiveness. Lihaas (talk) 21:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Support/Nom...: "Claudia Castillo of Spain becomes the first person to have a successful trachea transplant using a tissue-engineered organ". Reason is we rarely see medical items on ITN plus a first ever transplant is of international importance doesnt matter where it took place. although i am not sure if there is an article about this lurking around somewhere... Ashishg55 (talk) 22:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Second support: for same reasons given. 1. rare medical news, 2. a first. 59.183.245.107 (talk) 23:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Included as "Claudia Castillo of Spain becomes the first person to receive a successful trachea transplant using a tissue-engineered organ created from her own stem cells." Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 02:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

DR Congo mainpage picture

  • This is my first contribution to ITN, so please forgive me if I havn't stuck to the normal paths of procedure. The current map used on the mainage does not mark in any way the outline of DR's borders, and therefore isn't great. I propose that an admin adds the above image to replace the current one with, providing more detail at a glance:

I think that is a reasonable enough suggestion. Cheers, Blooded Edge Contact 18:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the image up on ITN is actually refering to the Somali pirate story. Although to be honest I prefer the DR Congo image going up because the current image has little reference to the Somali story --Daviessimo (talk) 20:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I would recommend this image of the hijacked ship in the somali pirate blurb. Random89 20:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Done with the hijacked ship. I prefer pictures of the subjects themselves, over maps and the like, except in cases of horrible quality or questionably copyright status. SpencerT♦C 22:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I support Spencer here. --GPPande talk! 17:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

  I found an ok one at Image:Kibativillagers.jpg; debating whether I should put it up. Probably will. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 02:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Put up Image:Kibaticrop.jpg instead. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 02:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

November 18

ITN candidates for November 18

  • I was bold and included this one as I think that it meets every criteria. War crimes are being reported, journalists kidnapped, and civilians are dying left right and center. If anyone objects I can take it down to discuss. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 05:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Well whilst I don't oppose I think the blurb is confusing. Firstly it was my belief that 'war crimes' have been going on for some time in Congo, yet here it reads like they are just starting. Secondly by using 'reported' surely that makes this speculative and I'm sure that must be against ITN rules. Anyway I don't disagree with the news items but I would focus on the breaking of the ceasefire and resumation of fighting rather than the war crimes. --Daviessimo (talk) 08:33, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
This is the first time the UN has said it is highly likely. Previously it was all speculation. However, do you have a proposed blurb change? Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 14:02, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

November 17

ITN candidates for November 17

While nominating this news I feel I am coming straight from the 16th or 17th century but this nuisance has recently taken international importance with UN, NATO, US and Indian navies doing their best to prevent piracy off coast of Somalia. --GPPande talk! 19:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Support. While probably not that important for world history, I think many people find the news item interesting. Will perhaps mean a greater effort against pirates in the future. Thue | talk 19:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the news is of international importance considering it's effect on crude oil prices for today. Also, crew is from various nations which will now get involved in giving ransom to the pirates for release of hostages & ship. Also, Somali waters are patrolled by multiple nations. What makes this news more ITN deserving is that pirates seem to have broken one of their previous records (unfortunately) by hijacking a VLCC, venturing out in sea for so long distance and managing to steer the ship to Somali port!!! I doubt any previous century pirates managed such an act with great success :-) --GPPande talk! 19:47, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Such record breaking crime news have made it to ITN previously like Banco Central burglary at Fortaleza back in 2005. I just remember reading it have no proof though as the talk page does not carry the typical ITN box :-) --GPPande talk! 20:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Support. VLCC redirects to oil tanker so it's better not to use the abbreviation in the blurb (what does it stand for anyway?) --Tone 20:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Very Large Crude Carrier Feel free to modify the blurb. Article is well updated. --GPPande talk! 20:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I put oil tanker, I don't like redirects in blurbs when not necessary. Please add the boxed where needed. --Tone 20:25, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks ! Spencer should be here soon to do that. --GPPande talk! 20:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Done. SpencerT♦C 23:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

November 16

ITN candidates for November 16

  • Jimmie Johnson. The Formula One champion was featured (of course that's considered the world driver's champion) and so did Australia's V8 Supercar champion. NASCAR is the United States' top class and races are broadcast in over 150 countries [3]. Image available on the article's page. Royalbroil 00:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
No way. Dunno about V8 but something awesome must've happened there to merit an ITN mention. –Howard the Duck 15:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Couldn't disagree with Howard more. One, it's the championship of a major sporting organization, so it doesn't matter if "something awesome" happens or not. Two, as stated, we put up the winners of the other major racing leagues (I don't remember seeing the V8 one- did we really post that?- but I certainly remember seeing the F1 title on ITN). Three, if you really want "something awesome", he's only the second driver to win three straight NASCAR titles, so I'd consider that pretty extraordinary.
In case anyone's wondering, I couldn't care less about NASCAR. With that said, since I am an admin, I could post something if I wanted to, but I'd rather have a little consensus. If another admin wants to throw this up, I'd certainly support them. -- Mike (Kicking222) 19:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Well to be honest you can't compare F1 with Nascar. One has races on 5 continents with teams and drivers from across the globe and the othere is based in North America and is dominated by US teams and drivers. This isn't like the world series or superbowl were the American league is the pinnacle of the sport, because there are other more notable 'international' motorsport events (such as F1 or the World Rally Championship). --Daviessimo (talk) 21:06, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay (no tone change in my voice - not a mad "okay"). Expect complaints from me if anything besides Formula One and the World Rally cars appear on ITN (without extenuating circumstances). I admitted that Formula One has more world interest, although being televised in 150 countries encompasses most of the 195 countries in the world. Be aware that NASCAR and the Daytona 500 have FAR more notability in the U.S. and the world than the IRL (who host the Indy 500). I think it's too late to add it since it happened well over a day ago anyhow. Royalbroil 06:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
For the admin: This is found at the WP:ITNSPORTS#Auto racing. –Howard the Duck 05:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
  • As some admins have gathered here, I would like to bring this to their notice. WP:ITNR is a much neglected policy page. This page can be edited by anyone (in past) and shown as proof when the event occurs next time to push it on ITN. I had initiated a discussion few days back on the talkpage of this policy page but none responded. Had this been Village Pump or any other policy page people would have jumped on with support or oppose votes. So just because NASCAR is mentioned on this page does not mean it has to go on ITN. Dug out the history of this page to check if there was a consensus on it. If this entry has been added after a consensus then the news should go on ITN. But if this is a fly-by edit on the policy page added without any discussion, then neither the nomination should stay alive nor the entry of NASCAR on WP:ITNR. I request admins to watch WP:ITNR page. --GPPande talk! 06:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

November 15

ITN candidates for November 15

  • NOM G20 meeting. This pretty much concerns the entire world...i suggest posting the news about meeting right now and then changing it to display the results that come out of it on sunday. Ashishg55 (talk) 17:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Is there an updated page about this G20 meeting? Perhaps a wikipage that looks like 36th G8 summit for instance would be good for ITN. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 23:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Well this seems to deal with it and is quite expansive, although its lacks references. If it is updated and fully referenced then I certainly think this warrants going up --Daviessimo (talk) 10:52, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Propose a good headline, please. --Tone 13:27, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Moved to 2008 G-20 summit. Going to go through, reformat the refs, then include under the tagline "The G-20 meet at a summit in Washington, D.C. to discuss the current financial crisis." Any objections? Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 23:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I would prefer it to be "The leaders of the G-20 meet..." --Peter cohen (talk) 23:35, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Fixed up article, gonna add an infobox. How about "Leaders of the G-20 meet at a summit in Washington, D.C. to discuss the current financial crisis."? Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 00:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Comment - My flash reading of consensus after being linked to this from IRC was to add this to ITN. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 00:48, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Ink'd it. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 01:10, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
since meeting is already done shouldnt the wording be in past tense? Ashishg55 (talk) 06:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
This is a special case; ITN items are always in present tense (note that all the other items are, for example). Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 07:11, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd support this going up but as the user above suggests the article needs expansion and referencing --Daviessimo (talk) 10:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Problem with this is wild fires are frequent occurences around the globe in these climates. Given there have been no deaths I'd suggest that this lacks notability --Daviessimo (talk) 10:55, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The fires are getting big... Changed my mind, I'd support that now but I would prefer one article covering all three fires. In any case, the part listing the celebrities that live in one af the affected areas but not saying anything about whether they were affected or not should be improved or removed. --Tone 16:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The Sayre Fire has now become the worst in terms of housing loss in Los Angeles history. I offer the following alternative:
I still don't see the great significance of this in the scale of things. The Romanian incident has killed people. But even that is not comparable to a major earthquake or the floods that regularly affect South Asia.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Plus when you say that it is the most destructive ever in LA you are illustrating the lack of international significance. If there were deaths or it was the most destructive fire in the whole of North America then it might warrant inclusion but at the moment this event is only of interest to the California region. --Daviessimo (talk) 13:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
This has been covered extensively by the media. ITN's standards are not only international importance but also international interest. It seems that it's more interesting to see celebs' homes burn to the ground. Blame the media for that. –Howard the Duck 15:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Maybe we can feature November 2008 Southern California wildfires as an aggregate of Sayre Fire + Montecito Tea Fire + Triangle Complex Fire in one wikiarticle. Much of California is in flames. The damages are extensive. You don't need people to die to call this a significant fire. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 22:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
The property damage is significant. When some company goes bankrupt, people don't have to die for it to be newsworthy. -- King of ♠ 00:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
On second thought, let's wait. If the Chargers suspend/move their home game that can be an indication that the fires are disruptive, –Howard the Duck 05:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
The fires are disruptive when people's homes are lost! --199.71.174.100 (talk) 23:10, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Pls note that both Sayre Fire and Montecito Tea Fire are slated to get on DYK later today. (See DYK queues 4 & 5.) We don't double-feature the same articles on MainPage, right? --PFHLai (talk) 17:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

November 14

ITN candidates for November 14

The intro has to be corrected, it is in future tense at the moment. Otherwise, we've agreed on this one before already. Two space-related items coming to ITN :-) --Tone 19:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
There you go. Yup, looks like weather is good and recession has hit world politics also likewise economy :-) --GPPande talk! 19:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
i dont know what the copyright info is for ISRO but if it is same as NASA then maybe we can also use MIP pics that are on ISRO site...99.237.123.217 (talk) 19:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Tenative time and date. Grsz11 →Review! 21:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, let's pile up some space items! By the way, is any nation landing on Mars next week? Ok, enough jokes, we usually put Shuttle missions on so this one qualifies. Some more words about the mission's aim should be put in the blurb, though. --Tone 21:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Oppose. Far more common than a nation's first moon mission or the first visual observation of extra-solar system planets.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I think you are right here. In comparisson to the other two, this is more common event, with a launch every couple of months. --Tone 23:50, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
I thought about the installation of Italy's MPLM Leonardo at the ISS might be ITN-worthy, but then, this won't be completely installed till STS-128. So, "no go" on that. I'm not sure if there's anything ITN-worthy in the current shuttle mission, unless there are some surprises.... --PFHLai (talk) 14:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Only material damage and some celebrities involved but I don't think this is an ITN material. --Tone 13:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
What do you mean? Over 100 homes were destroyed in one night by a fire. When was the last time that happened? And to say that celebrities are involved is not true, no one that is considered a “celebrity” lost their home. And even if they were celebrity homes, does it matter? – Zntrip 19:36, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I know that it's LA but those were a lot of celebs. LOL. –Howard the Duck 01:05, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

November 13

ITN candidates for November 13

Nice one. The article first needs to be expanded and a picture would be great. And be careful, what is orbiting around HR 8799 are planets, not the whole solar system (star+planets) ;-) --Tone 21:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
That was a quote from USA Today ;-) I don't know where to get a picture from. --bender235 (talk) 21:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
The picture is fair use. I'd throw in something about Fomalhaut b/Fomalhaut, another system with direct observations announced today (plus the picture is free). MER-C 08:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Good, more data. A full blurb should include links to the corresponding stars and planets and article extrasolar planet. If some more can be written about discovery this would be great, otherwise I think it's ready. --Tone 15:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Well here is the Sky New\Yahoo source. Simply south (talk) 18:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
I've posted this now. The image of Fomalhaut b is on Commons, someone upload it please. --Tone 19:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if i should note that these were found using visual light. Simply south (talk) 20:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

November 12

ITN candidates for November 12

The article is well updated. However, I would prefer to wait until the verdict has been given (unless we want to stress the fact that he has been arrested). --Tone 16:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • when should chandrayaan be posted... it made the 100km orbit now which is technically last phase of its journey. or wait for MIP to hit the moon. Ashishg55 (talk) 00:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Was there a similar posting for SELENE or Chang'e 1 reaching lunar orbits. Seems to lack the notability of a world event. 130.113.81.33 (talk) 00:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Its notable for being first indian satellite to successfully go beyond earth. And its carrying half a dozen instruments from other countries.Ashishg55 (talk) 00:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
When will Moon Impact Probe hit the lunar surface? Very few countries have managed to place anything there. This should be notable enough for ITN, I hope. --PFHLai (talk) 00:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Late Friday night Indian time. I am waiting for that. Will nominate it once it is confirmed. After the moon probe is dropped, different cameras would be put ON one-after-another with gap of 6~8 hours. They would be used to picture lunar surface for next 2 years to build a complete 3D picture of moon. Dropping of Lunar probe could be the last time Chandrayaan-I could go up on ITN. --GPPande talk! 05:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Wait for the impact, then it's a good post. --Tone 08:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

November 11

ITN candidates for November 11

I think us listing the election and runoff has been sufficient for this. SpencerT♦C 23:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • It would be nice to have something about the pyramid. Seems like a great story for ITN. --Tone 23:13, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
It is a perfect encyclopaedia story. Where would an article go? I'm not up to scratch on my ancient egypt. --Daviessimo (talk) 08:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I suppose a new article should be written but I have little time... Can anyone help here? --Tone 08:47, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Actually there seems to be have been a paragraph started in Queen Sesheshet. --Daviessimo (talk) 09:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Looks promising. Some more work and this can go up. --Tone 10:06, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Pretty good to post to ITN now. It's 49 hours since last update. --GPPande talk! 13:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I have expanded the article more and added 2 more refs. Ready...Go! --GPPande talk! 14:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. Please add the appropriate boxes to the appropriate pages. --Tone 16:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

November 10

ITN candidates for November 10

  • Markets surge worldwide after China announced a stimulus package involving $586 billion U.S. to finance programs in 10 major domestic areas in the next two years. (CNN)
Is there an article for this? Otherwise it's a non-starter --Daviessimo (talk) 21:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
If someone can start an article...it's important- 4 trillion Yuan. Anyway, I see something small at Economic crisis of 2008#China, though. SpencerT♦C 01:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree - this is a massive package. This is of major importance for China and the world with a similar impact as the U.S. bailout and the reaction so far has been substantial. I've amended the headline suggestion with the link Spencer provided. There is also some info Global_financial_crisis_of_2008#Week_of_November_9. 130.113.81.33 (talk) 03:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Of the items proposed, this seems the best to me. What would the final wording be? --Tone 15:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Should we say 4 trillion yuan or 586 billion U.S.? 130.113.81.33 (talk) 16:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Both. 4 trl yuan (586 bill usd). The paragraph is still a bit short, can it be expanded? Proposed wording is In order to battle the financial crisis China announces a stimulus package worth ... to finance programs in 10 major domestic areas in the next two years. Is this ok? --Tone 19:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes. Looks good. I think that `In order to battle the financial crisis`` may or may not be necessary. 130.113.81.33 (talk) 21:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) Economic crisis of 2008#China needs to have a little more content. Its still pretty bare right now. SpencerT♦C 23:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Found the article: China Stimulus Plan. It needs some expnsion, I'll see if I can help. SpencerT♦C 01:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Any chance of this being posted soon. Shame to see such an importance piece of news go unposted. 130.113.81.33 (talk) 00:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. --Tone 08:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • any article on the baghdad bombings?
Another possibility. 31 deaths is a lot for suicide bombings. SpencerT♦C 01:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Very important development as this test series also marked the retirement of Sourav Ganguly and Anil Kumble. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 21:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Not sure of notability, but anyway Border-Gavaskar_Trophy#2008-09_Series needs cleanup and refs if this has a chance of being posted. SpencerT♦C 21:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd tend to agree. What is the international significance? India have won this before and its not as if they won by a record margin. --Daviessimo (talk) 21:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
We didn't put a similar event up last time. We've had quite some cricket posts recently so I am not sure if this is of same importance. --Tone 21:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Pls fix up the referencing, per Spencer above, and the many {{Expand}} tags in the Border-Gavaskar Trophy article before featuring this article on MainPage. (notability/significance aside....) --PFHLai (talk) 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

November 9

ITN candidates for November 9

Please propose a headline, and please be reminded that a headline should be posted on Portal: Current events first. --PFHLai (talk) 06:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Good one, suggest a good wording. --Tone 11:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Wording Suggestion: 750 million of cocaine has been seized off the coast of Ireland, in the the largest such seizure in the country's history. Anonymous101 (talk) 14:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. Changed tense to present as standard and unlinked euro. --Tone 16:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Gosh, that's the first time this has happened to me! --➨Candlewicke  :) Sign/Talk 17:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Which article got updated? Please embolden the link. --PFHLai (talk) 06:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't put this to ITN. --Tone 11:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Unless, however, rioting spirals out of control. And if there's an updated article. SpencerT♦C 02:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
So what happened on Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa? Please expand 2008 Russian submarine accident a bit more when more info becomes available. --PFHLai (talk) 06:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
I would prefer both articles merged. When some more is known, this can go up. --Tone 11:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. I used a different wording but maybe the above is better. Feel free to replace it. --Tone 08:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Any article about the 4 trillion Yuan Chinese stimulus plan [4]? SpencerT♦C 02:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

November 8

ITN candidates for November 8

Nomination: Following the 2008 New Zealand general election, the centre right party, National, will form a coalition government with ACT and United Future, ending 9-years of Labour-led rule. Anonymous101 (talk) 14:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I think John Key should be mentioned as National leader. He's going to become Prime Minister which is significant. Not sure about the description of National as centre right - some may object to that classification.--Weldingfish (talk) 14:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Dates section of the election article says official results will be declared on November 22. I would say let's wait till the government is formed. Still it is will form which is speculative in nature. New government formation news always go up on ITN and so opposition to it. But, just wait till it's official. --GPPande talk! 14:49, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Or the official results are out? If so, lets post it. --GPPande talk! 14:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, official results out (i think). See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7717014.stm. Anonymous101 (talk) 14:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Amended nomination: Following the 2008 New Zealand general election, the National party, led by John Key (pictured), will form a coalition government with ACT and United Future, ending 9-years of Labour-led rule. Anonymous101 (talk) 14:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Lets post it. But, ending 9-years of Labour-led rule can be dropped. --GPPande talk! 15:29, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Dropped. Anonymous101 (talk) 15:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC) 15:31, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
The coalition government could also include the Maori party. It wouldn't be necessary for the majority, however. --Weldingfish (talk) 15:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Posting without image for now. Can someone upload it here and let me know? I need to go and don't have the time to do it, but I can post. SpencerT♦C 16:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I've thrown in an M-cropped pic of Key. Can someone familiar with the topic re-write the blurb in simple present tense, please ? --PFHLai (talk) 19:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Re-posted as
because the election article doesn't say who will form the coalition govt. This article in The New Zealand Herald says other parties may be included in the new government --PFHLai (talk) 23:22, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


Oppose for now. Updates to the article are pretty minimal, and the lack of big losses really makes it lose out on notability. SpencerT♦C 16:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Let's wait until after the Cuba landfall. Almost certainly notable then and The Caymans did have quite the hit. This will be the third major hurricane to strike Cuba this hurricane season. These are almost always put up on ITN after they hit, especially with this much strength. The great kawa (talk) 23:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Support. as hurricane has now made landfall.99.237.123.217 (talk) 02:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
What happened in Cuba after landfall? If Paloma hasn't done anything of significance, it has to be something of significance in order to get on ITN. Those things mentioned in the "Records" section appear more like trivias so far. We'll wait and see what Paloma does. For the sake of the Cubans living in the area, I hope this hurricane does nothing too bad. --PFHLai (talk) 07:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

November 7

ITN candidates for November 7

  • Is there an article for the Haiti school collapse? --Daviessimo (talk) 20:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Definitely a good suggestion, I'd support. Perhaps later I'll create one if I have the time. SpencerT♦C 21:02, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Started a stub here: 2008 Pétion-Ville school collapse. Any help expanding it would be appreciated. — jwillbur 23:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Suitable expansion done for 2008 Pétion-Ville school collapse. Going to post in a sec. SpencerT♦C 03:01, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Support--HamedogTalk|@ 13:26, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Dates section of the election article says official results will be declared on November 22. I would say let's wait till the government is formed. Still it is will form which is speculative in nature. New government formation news always go up on ITN and so opposition to it. But, just wait till it's official. --GPPande talk! 14:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

November 6

ITN candidates for November 6

Posted. I omitted the title King at the beginning because it's used in dragon king already. Someone please add the photo. --Tone 08:33, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Is it equivalent to Nobel or Booker prize in french speaking world? Nothing more prestigious than this? --GPPande talk! 20:50, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Obviously the French equivalent of winning the Nobel Prize is winning the Nobel Prize. Checking Académie française#Current members, there have been 5 elected this year with another due in a few weeks. I'd say not notable enough. Also, "immortel" is a bit of an Easter-Egg link, which I frown upon in ITN. jnestorius(talk) 21:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm withdrawing this nomination until the issues raised above of notability and link quality are addressed. Thanks. --Zigger «º» 02:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Notability/newsworthiness: The election of a new immortel could be considered one of the "Grand Slam" events in the areas of French language (see Francophonie for relevant region) and French literature (including philosophy and history works). Marion is currently a Chicago academic, which may be of interest to American readers. Membership of the academy is probably better known internationally than the various prizes it awards.   Despite this year having seen an unusually high number of new members, there have been only ~700 members over ~400 years, and by contrast, no members were appointed in 2006. Marion's membership is notable in that he is the traditional ecclesiastical member, which is also notable in his not being a senior office-holder of the church. Membership is for life. --Zigger «º» 03:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
This will go up as soon some admin comes in. --GPPande talk! 10:48, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it should. The better bold link is Palauan presidential election, 2008. Random89 16:11, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Posted. ffm 16:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Withdrawn to re-list on December 16 Nominating: Former African National Congress] member Mosiuoa Lekota announces the formation of the Congress of the People, to contest the 2009 South African general election. p.s. please fix the Congress of the People easter egg link when the article name is finalised (there are currently some issues in properly disambiguating the name). Zunaid 10:22, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Let the new party contest the election and show some performance. Putting it one ITN just at the time of it's birth would be giving it WP:UNDUE advantage. --GPPande talk! 10:48, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
      • The point is that the party brings with it a significant split in the dominant African National Congress, to the point where some analysts are predicting that the ANC might not even get 50% of the national vote, which is frankly astonishing. It has already had a HUGE impact on South African politics if you follow the news stories. There is no WP:UNDUE issue at play here. But I digress, I won't elaborate further. I'm withdrawing this nomination until the date the party will officially be formed, 16 December. Zunaid 13:49, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

November 5

ITN candidates for November 5

  • I think it would be a good idea to establish a consensus regarding whether or not the impending executions of the three convicted Bali bombers should be included, before the event actually happens. Thoughts? Cheers, Daniel (talk) 01:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Barack Obama is elected President of the United States, the first African-American to be elected. 71.184.188.51 (talk) 04:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

See #ITN candidates for November 4 below. --06:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Well does it meet the ITN sports criteria for a WR?:
"that is broken either: by an unusually large margin, after a very long time period, or in a highly publicized event"
If yes it should go up, if not then it shouldn't --Daviessimo (talk) 19:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
The rule has been left open ended and totally at the discretion of deciding admin. I am not an admin. I think this is a qualifying news item considering a new world record so I nominated. Also the news qualifies because it was a international sporting event where sportsmen across globe represented many countries. Also, this is was World Cup championship not just between couple of nation. A FIFA world cup level event not UEFA (just a simile). And yes, it is a publicized event as can be seen on news.google.com --GPPande talk! 20:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
We usually put on marathon or 100m records, I don't think this specifix should go up. After all, there are many shooting events at a single c'ship. --Tone 21:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
But, this one was different as a world record was broken. --GPPande talk! 22:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but in many sports records are broken very often, take swimming for example. We don't include swimming although it probably has a bigger fan base than air rifle (not that I would want to undermine the achievement, it's still great). --Tone 22:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Ok. I understand. --GPPande talk! 07:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
I also don't feel it meets any of the 3 statements. The only possible one would be a well-covered event, and I don't think it's quite there. But yes, I can assure you the wording is deliberately vague, I thought that it would be a good idea to leave some things up to discussion instead of trying to mandate every fine point. Random89 18:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm interested in putting these two up. It'll be a while until I can write articles for them, but if anyone wants to discuss while the time passes please do. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 21:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Even though I nominate India related news here most and put this up on current events portal (also reverted one vandalism on it today), I would not support Chandrayaan news (as of yet). Reason: The mission to moon was on ITN when it was successfully launched and should be on ITN when it deploys all the instruments successfully after entering lunar orbit. As now it has just skipped earth's gravity and into lunar space. People may start shouting India-bias if they see too much of it and we may loose a potential good news when it should be up later in few days. --GPPande talk! 21:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Space item no, because we had the post about it when it was launched. When there's some Moon-related event, we can put it up again but not yet IMO.Russia neither, I don't favour having posts like "Country X says that they will do Y" unles there are some consequences or it they actually do what they said. --Tone 21:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Agree with Tone on both counts. --GPPande talk! 22:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. However, for the latter item, one could argue that it has notability because of the Cold War-esque elements; when one major superpower threatens another it is usually news. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 04:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Russia has been on good and bad terms with west even after fall of soviet union. This is not the first time such a threat is put forth. Moreover, we don't know if Russia will do what it says. Currently the news item is speculative (not yet done) and so may raise questions. Let's wait till Russia walks the talk and news becomes appropriate to come on ITN. --GPPande talk! 07:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Let's wait till the Moon Impact Probe lands safely on the lunar surface in about 2 days. We really shouldn't do play-by-play on ITN, no matter how exciting this Chandrayaan-1 mission has become. :) --PFHLai (talk) 22:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

November 4

ITN candidates for November 4

Melbourne Cup

  • Outside chance Viewed wins the Melbourne Cup, giving 81 year-old trainer Bart Cummings a record-breaking 12th cup victory.
    • Oppose - WP:ITNR allows only United States Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing. Also blurb contains too many WP:PEACOCK terms. --GPPande talk! 08:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Support. On the matter of peacock terms, these could be removed, as I have just done. On the matter of WP:ITNR, this is blatantly US-centric (in terms of horseracing), and really should be changed, however I can understand that right here is not the correct forum to do so. Nonetheless, the reason why THIS melbourne cup is significant is because Cummings broke the record (12 wins) in such an unexpected way. Why wait for 'policy' to be changed? By the time it does, it is already too late. Suicup (talk) 09:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Before discussion, the articles should be expanded some more. The focus article is just a list of results, really. Defaut oppose until this is fixed. --Tone 10:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Mexican Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mouriño is killed as a government-owned Lear Jet crashes into rush-hour Mexico City traffic. (BBC)
    • I'm going to write an article on this at 2008 Mexico City plane crash. If anyone has any input, please do tell. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 03:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Featured this; hope nobody minds. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 04:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
        • This news fails WP:ITN/DC. How is this news of international importance? I am not questioning the notability of the dead, but this news is completely of domestic importance. Plane crash news in ITN are generally of commercial jet liners or when some person holding top offices in a country like president or prime minister dies. --GPPande talk! 08:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Gotta agree with GPP on this one. –Howard the Duck 12:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
            • See #5; (ITN is) the unexpected death (whether by natural causes, accident, or violence) of a person in a prominent office or position may warrant inclusion (eg, national leaders, prominent experts, celebrated artists, etc.);
            • Besides, you could argue that news is domestic for any item. The Battle of Goma, for example, hasn't had any real ramifications outside of the Congo. The American election will affect the entire world how? I think that's all POV. Anyway, I think Mouriño qualifies as a person in a prominent office position (being top aide to Mexico's president and all). Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 13:49, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I was expecting you would cite #5 there. See, this person was no doubt a prominent person within Mexican think tanks. But not a national leaders, prominent experts(recognized internationally), celebrated artists as per the criteria. So it still fails.
  • Battle of Goma has seen UN and international reactions. So is same to battles across the globe, like LTTE tamil battle, battles across old soviet states and eastern Europe or Latin America. So they are always included as they have international importance and reactions. U.S. elections or to that matter national elections in any part of world are always on ITN. I do not see any objection on them.
  • I am not saying the news is not important but simply it fails a criteria quite openly and so objecting to it. Had there been any grey area I would have not objected. --GPPande talk! 14:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The thing is this need one degree of relationship with the person "in a prominent office or position". Now if one of Obama's top aides dies spectacularly I wonder how would that would've been handled.
  • And wait, MoP nominated the item, then after waiting for 59 minutes, same person posts this? What? Even DYKs get more scrutiny that this. –Howard the Duck 14:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Although there should a previous consensus to this posting, I think this event is appropriate for ITN. Apart from the famous passenger, an airplane crashed in the middle of the capital in the middle of the day. Pretty bad. --Tone 15:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
The best the nominator could've done was to wait for another admin to post it. Many items here are ignored and are picked up but it quite bad to see an admin nominating an item, then posting it less than an hour after. We prevented this on the U.S. election by withholding for the longest time until we're 100% sure then this crops up. –Howard the Duck 15:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I have already mentioned above, notability is not a question here. Such deaths have not been approved and featured on ITN in past (as far as my knowledge goes). Don't go beyond laid down rules without discussion first. This news fails the death nomination criteria. Some admin needs to remove this news and to balance the main page should put up the old news item at bottom. --GPPande talk! 15:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The most parallel example that I can think of is when the plane of a Yankees pitcher crashed in NYC some years ago. Now I get it Interior secretary > Yankees pitcher, but they are of similar number of deaths, single digits. Granted he's #2, he's not even in the line of succession. Now, if some nasty fire flared up in the middle of nowhere and it killed 10 people it wouldn't even be at Portal:Current events. –Howard the Duck 15:19, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • As a point of information, he's not in the line of presidential succession because that concept's alien to the Constitution (C. 19 was full of VPs killing their bosses, so it was done away with), but check out the overlaps between the list of incumbents of this office and the list of presidents. FWIW, the official death toll is up to 13 (update hook?) and it'll no doubt rise. Aille (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

In this case I used my discretion to decide whether or not I would feature the news. I've only done this a few times, and only with cases I'm sure fall into the criteria (no, I'm not going to cite IAR), which is why I featured it so quickly. Normally I would wait for consensus. However, as every frenzied wikilinker will tell you, be bold. I'm still not sure how the death of Mexico's second-in-command, as Aille said, is not a notable death. What if Cheney or Biden died? Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 20:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Notability of the person who has died is not in question (this is third time I am explaining). Nor is the position under question. Both are notable. But this does not mean that death news of every person who is notable (with article on WP) OR who dies holding an office which is notable on WP will come on ITN. That would be too much. So there were some guidelines laid. Now I understand these guidelines need not be followed strictly. But even not so loosely. Point 2) I am not questioning why you did not wait for a consensus. Infact, considering the lack of volunteers here on ITN (except few sudden spur during events like US election) or sometimes lack of qualifying news items - the ITN is not updated for more than 24 hours. I appreciate your being actively taking lead and sometimes that is really needed considering the swiftness with which news items change. Other admins have also done this in past. They have posted events on ITN bypassing the process. But in those case, there would no reason to object it like, new President/Prime Ministers elected, major sports events, war between two nations, sudden massive natural calamities across globe, etc. Nobody would object the significance of such news. But when it comes to a news item of bio that too of none head of state it is suitable to gather consensus first. Since the news has been on the main page too long now - removing it may raise more questions than leaving it there and allow to get buried down. You admins decide. It's acceptable considering the delay has already happened AND death toll is now 13. --GPPande talk! 20:33, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
That's the other thing; 13 people died from a plane which crashed into rush-hour traffic. How many times has that happened? I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether or not this deserves to be ITN. Also, another thing; you're right, we couldn't post an obituary about every notable person to die. If ones of "lesser" notability die of natural causes, nothing is said. However, if Steve Irwin gets stabbed in the chest by a manta ray, that gets featured. If the Mexican second-in-command is on a plane that crashes violently into the middle of one of the world's busiest cities, I think that's notable (and rare enough to warrant inclusion). Sound reasonable? That's the reasoning I used. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 21:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
lol they are important since they are from US ;) In any case i really dont see why people are arguing over posting a plane crash. 13 people died... there is no point in discussing prominence of #2 person in mexico, this should be posted even if noone famous was in the plane.

November 3

ITN candidates for November 3

November 2

ITN candidates for November 2

  • (INSERT NAME HERE) wins the 2008 Formula One Drivers' Championship, beating (INSERT 2ND PLACE DRIVER HERE) by (INSERT POINTS DIFFERENCE HERE) points.
    • Nomination - It'd either be Lewis Hamilton or Felipe Massa in the gap - can't be put up till after the race at approximately 18:45 GMT (rain pending). IMO, this should be given priority over the nomination directly above. D.M.N. (talk) 12:38, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Sure, this goes on. We can combine it with the rally, optionally, because both are moto sports. --Tone 15:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I think that these are not at the same level. There is a winner in the Formula One championship every year. In the case of Loeb, we are talking of the most championship titles ever. Five, more than legends such as Mäkinen or Kankunnen. Hektor (talk) 16:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
OK, fine with me. Two posts then. Posting Loeb now, Formula 1 later. --Tone 16:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Posted. Prolog (talk) 19:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Might be worth mentioning that he's now the youngest Formula 1 world champion in history. BBCCyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 19:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Where's the article update? I see no mention of the race. —David Levy 19:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I think we have to decide what to mention here. Given the single point difference and the fact the last race was so close, we could follow the above proposal (mentioning Massa and the points difference). Alternatively we could mention Hamilton as the youngest ever. Or alternatively again we could mention Ferrari win the constructos championship. We obviously can't mention all of this, it will be too long. Since the article is going to take a while, I guess we have time to decide. Nil Einne (talk) 19:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
What disappeared? The blurb? I removed it because the article wasn't updated to include coverage of the race. That's what I was referring to above. —David Levy 20:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Seems like it got removed. *sigh* D.M.N. (talk) 19:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I think the unique fact about this championship is Hamilton's age. I haven't checked but a one point winning margin probably isn't that unusual. yorkshiresky (talk) 19:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
First time it's happened in Formula One... see here Wait that's not true, nevermind. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 19:58, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The section is not a news wire. The article contained no coverage of the race. Please see Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page for an explanation of the inclusion criteria. —David Levy 20:00, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
So, the winner of the F1 title is not worthy of inclusion on the main page? F1 is the biggest form of motorsport in the world - so I find you're explanation weird..... this should be on the main page. D.M.N. (talk) 20:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Did you read the criteria? The event's notability is not the issue. The section's purpose is to refer readers to articles that have been written or substantially updated because of recent/current events. If extraterrestrials were to contact humanity, this shouldn't be listed in the section until a relevant article has been written or substantially updated as a result. —David Levy 20:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
2008 Brazilian Grand Prix. D.M.N. (talk) 20:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The emboldened link was Lewis Hamilton. The 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix (which contains little information about Hamilton's victory) wasn't even mentioned in the blurb. —David Levy 21:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Erm, WP:UNDUE. Besides, I see a whole paragraph on the race and a bit in the lead. D.M.N. (talk) 21:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
My point wasn't that the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix article should focus on Hamilton; it's that it isn't an appropriate primary link. We needed a substantial update to the Lewis Hamilton article (which we now have). —David Levy 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

←I'd say something along the lines of:

"Lewis Hamilton wins the 2008 Formula One season by one point, becoming the youngest Formula One World Champion in history."

I'm not sure it's worth mentioning that Ferrari won the constructors championship since someone wins this every year and it's not as special as becoming the youngest champion in history. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 19:56, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I support the suggestion put forward above, I think that would suffice enough for ITN. Given that he is the ninth British champion, the first to win an F1 title for 12 years and the first McLaren driver to do it for 9, the first 'black' man to do so in history as well as the youngest, HOW CAN THIS NOT BE NEWS?! Blooded Edge (TCA) 20:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
So... is this going to go onto the Main Page or not? D.M.N. (talk) 21:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Exactly. Quote from the top of the sports part: "Every entry applies to the conclusion of the tournament or series". Last year it was on ITN as soon as Raikkonen won, what's the difference now (apart from who won it). D.M.N. (talk) 21:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Screw that page. Basketball at the Summer Olympics was listed there but it wasn't followed. WTF. –Howard the Duck 09:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
There isn't one, some people are just being picky. I see David Levy's point, however. It shouldn't be linked to Lewis Hamilton but instead to the 2008 Formula One Season or 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 21:40, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
IMO, it should be linked to the main subject though, like with the Loeb one is above. D.M.N. (talk) 21:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree; the Lewis Hamilton article (now that it's been sufficiently updated) should retain the primary link. —David Levy 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that expecting the article to contain more than a single sentence about the event is "picky." —David Levy 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Either a substantial update occurred quickly or the rules weren't followed. —David Levy 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Again, no one asserted that the event lacked sufficient notability. We merely needed to wait for a substantial encyclopedia update to occur. —David Levy 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
David Levy is spot on here. ITNSPORTS or whatever it's called now was only intended to resolve debate about whether an item was worthy of inclusion. It was NEVER intended to remove the requirement for a substanial update (although I do have concerns about Nobel Prizes but that predated ITNSPORTS). All articles require a substanial update it doesn't matter whether a nuke strikes the Washingston and takes out nearly the entire US chain of command, the messiah appears in New York, an astreoid hits Alabama or real life confirmed ETs suddenly appear before the UN. No substanial update ≠ No coverage on ITN Nil Einne (talk) 10:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Nom: Zambia election. I'm going to post without the party information.Nevermind. SpencerT♦C 22:57, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

November 1

ITN candidates for November 1

  • I have created a tiny stub for 2008 Vietnam floods. There are many inconsistencies between different news sources so I didn't put the number of casualties in. --Tone 11:10, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I've done some expanding, but wait a bit to see what happens to the casualties. Using WP:OR and by calculating the deaths by province, I got 52 deaths, a number not verified anywhere, so I'd like to wait and see what happens with it, maybe 10-12 hours. For now, I discluded lightning-related deaths, as they aren't seeming to be counted (That's how I got 52). SpencerT♦C 00:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Nice work. The sources say 49 so I'd stick to this for now. I think it's ready to post it. --Tone 19:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Now 66 but I'm getting way over that. Can I have someone look through the deaths per province with the reds? I'm getting 22 deaths for Nghe An province, but right now 10 is the only number that fits with the highest reported total. SpencerT♦C 22:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
If there is a problem with summing the numbers as OR, just put more than ?? in the post and don't add the sum in the article. --Tone 22:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)