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August 31


Wikipedia as a tool in the propoganda war

Following reports of an Israeli course on editing wikipedia to POV-push political agendas, Palestinians also set up a case for a counter-group because the "next regional war will be [a] media war." (see box above)(Lihaas (talk) 03:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC));

This seems to be more a topic for the Signpost than for ITN. --Tone 07:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Self ref, and hundreds of ethnic groups have their orgs' members on here posting nonsense all the time anyway, with much success too YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The Bill

Since we would probably have posted Last of the Summer Wine the other day, had it not been the TFA, I think we should consider the final episode of The Bill which airs tonight (BST). It's the UK's longest-running police drama and one of the longest-running British TV series of all time and is something of a British icon. It's had crossovers with Dutch and German TV series and spawned about half a dozen spin offs. There was (predictably) a Facebook campaign to save it that got thousands of members, which shows that it has significant interest. It became something of a rite of passage for up-and-coming actors, so it's helped to launch the careers of, inter alia, Keira Knightley, Denise van Outen, James McAvoy and Paul O'Grady (The Guardian). The Beeb have a nice article about its cultural impact, as well. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I should mention that the article is a GA and is up to date and some material can be added to it once the final episode has aired. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:57, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Seems good. Diego Grez (talk) 18:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Seems good. I will be watching and taping the final episode and the documentary that follows shortly after, will add any information if it's needed. --5 albert square (talk) 19:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose: the rationale for adding LOTSW was based around it being the World's longest running sitcom: The Bill, although long lived, is not being claimed even to be British TV's longest running anything. Kevin McE (talk) 22:40, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
It was the UK's longest-running police drama. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
And by a similar argument Toy Story 3 is the #1 grossing animated movie. I think I have to oppose - its not the world's #1 so I don't think its notable enough I'm afraid. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Kevin McE. Was an icon in Britain and old folks in Australia but the end of the show really isn't significant. Also, it's about 20 years too late, IMO! We're getting a bit too lax on entertainment-related postings, in my view. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:44, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Kevin McE--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per KM. Nergaal (talk) 00:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
oppose if it needs all the caveats to warrant a placement.. (ie- longest, uk police drama). (Lihaas (talk) 01:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC));
I'll also go with oppose here. It is not a slow news day, there are many more important items being discussed at the moment. --Tone 07:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Operation Iraqi Freedom becomes Operation New Dawn

  • In the Iraq War, Operation Iraqi Freedom ends and Operation New Dawn begins, marking the change in role of the United States Forces from combatants to advisors.

How did people forget this? MickMacNee (talk) 13:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

We've discussed this one two weeks ago when most of the troops have left the country. Support now. --Tone 13:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - It will be a big presidential speech tonight as well. Whatever one thinks of all this, it's newsworthy. Jusdafax 14:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
That's what she said. We could use Withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq or 2010 in Iraq but both need work. ~DC Let's Vent 14:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per Jusdafax--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:52, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Reluctant support given that Obama's speech is going to be on everyone's front page tonight. Courcelles 17:54, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support, but I'd like the blurb to provide more context. ~AH1(TCU) 19:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose not much is changing on the ground. theyve been out of the cities for awhile, one general says they could very well be in combat mode at some point again depending on the sitatuation, and the nominee seems to be his speech which is not much "well focus on the economy now that the war is over" -- deviant already.Lihaas (talk) 01:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC));
Support - but as I said last time this was nominated, can we make sure that the emphasis is placed on the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom and the end of combat operations rather than any future position of foreign forces in the country. I would slightly alter Mick's blurb to something like In the Iraq War, Operation Iraqi Freedom ends and Operation New Dawn begins, marking the end to foreign combat operations in the country --Daviessimo (talk) 07:35, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
This seems to be getting support, what about the blurb and the highlight article? --Tone 07:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Support, per Jusdafax. Ks0stm (TCG) 14:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Folks, you can support this 'til you're blue in the face, but without an update it can't go up. I'm happy there's plenty of support for this, but we have nothing that would qualify as an update to any of the three articles suggested so far. I will post it once it's updated, but I won't post it before even if a hundred people support it! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment - would you say the Operation New Dawn update the the Iraq War article is good enough? I admit it is not a lot, but it could be considered a good start. Jusdafax 16:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Not really. There's only a couple of sentences on this event. I'd like at least one good-sized paragraph. There should be plenty of material available. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

  Done Added a paragraph regarding the ceremony in Baghdad with comments from several U.S. officials including Vice President Joe Biden. Jusdafax 17:35, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I vote to remove this item. Nothing has changed in reality - the drawdown was scheduled during the Bush administration. All that has actually happened is that Obama gave a speech. The rebranding is hardly newsworthy.μηδείς (talk) 00:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

  • While I don't agree regarding the newsworthiness issue raised here, this editor raises an interesting point... has an ITN item ever been removed as an afterthought? If so, it means any controversial or close !votes here could be reversed. I don't think I like that concept because of the potential for non-stop drama. Jusdafax 01:24, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
last week when they started moving out of iraq we decided to wait till it became official. u r correct that nothing has changed but obama saying the war is over is a fairly big news. in history books this day will go down as the day the war ended not the day the military leaves. and yes ITN items have been removed before but you need a very heavy consensus for that, once its up consider it up for good in most cases. -- Ashish-g55 01:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

So how do you know that this day will go down in history, Ashish? Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. No treaty was signed. No battle was fought. No last troop withdrew. No event not scheduled since Bush's presidency has occured. Only two things have actually happened. Obama gave his 500-somethingeth speech, and the name was changed. If the headline is not removed - and I maintain that it should be, then it should at least reflect the facts. The headline Operation Iraqi Freedom becomes Operation New Dawn is bizarrely metaphysical.

I propose the alternate ITN headline:

  • In a speech praising former president Bush, Barack Obama renamed Operation Iraqi Freedom as Operation New Dawn. μηδείς (talk) 02:31, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
i dont think i said anything wrong. u dont need a crystal ball to say this is the day the war ended. when president of country attacking you gives a speech on tv that its over then its over. how is signing a piece of paper better? if they start any combat operations again (which they could even if they signed some "treaty") that would be big enough news to post again. -- Ashish-g55 03:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
So you believe that the United States has stopped attacking Iraq? I am glad you clarified that. But I do not share your faith in comments made on TV.
The war in Iraq ended? Thats ludicrous, there isnothing to say that obama is the barometer of history. He makes a comment so voila: The war ends..No more bombings and shootings and strife and political discord. A sudden move to make peace and move towards a new Iraq on Sept. 1, 2010...??? See [3] and more importantly even the warmongers: [4](Lihaas (talk) 04:27, 2 September 2010 (UTC));
wth i never said they left iraq in good condition. u can twist my words whichever way u like but doesnt change the fact its a big event. -- Ashish-g55 04:36, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
"Praising" former President Bush should not be the focus of this story if it ever gets posted. It would be better to focus on another part of the speech. ~AH1(TCU) 15:34, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Death of Laurent Fignon

  • Twice winner of the Tour de France, and once of the Giro d'Italia, aged fifty: was still a commentator on French TV at the Tour last month. Kevin McE (talk) 12:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 13:09, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Admitted doper, had been retired for almost 20 years, death was not unexpected (he had cancer) and has no major international impact. --Smashvilletalk 14:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support Yet another ignorant American idiot. "No major international impact"? He won the TdF twice and tons of people have failed dope tests, Carl Lewis, etc, the fact that this guy confessed doesn't mean he is less notable; doping tests can be gamed easily and most get caught in elaborate police raids, which tends to only happen in cycling YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
first of all WP:Civil. secondly the minimum you can win TdF is once, he won twice. There are 20 people who have done that. are we planning to post all their deaths if we post this one? oppose -- Ashish-g55 01:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
And if Carl Lewis died, I highly doubt we would post it. What's your point? What international impact did his death have? Also, isn't "ignorant...idiot" repetitive? --Smashvilletalk 13:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose His death is of little present significance, even if his life was. I think that's what we should focus on for ITN deaths. --Mkativerata (talk) 01:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
oppose we dont go posting every death on ITN, there is a different place for death "recent deaths..."Lihaas (talk) 01:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC));
Oppose, ignorant American idiot solidarity. --Golbez (talk) 13:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I'd like to suggest we all cease with the nationalistic slant of any kind here. It just leads to resentments which can turn into long-term grudges, which won't help the process of collaborative editing. Let's make a serious effort to understand each others' points of views, instead of indulging in name-calling. Thanks. Jusdafax 16:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Oppose 2x winner isn't enough if 20 others have done that. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Death of Francisco Varallo

Although this death wasn't unexpected (he was 100), Varallo was the last survivor of the inaugural world cup and until last year was the record goalscorer for Boca Juniors --Daviessimo (talk) 12:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Support. Historic landmark in a world sport. MickMacNee (talk) 13:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
    Weak support. Considering he was the last one... --Smashvilletalk 14:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
    Support - The last survivor of the first World cup. There's a good blurb in there, and the story will go over well in countries that are big on the sport. Jusdafax 15:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note: The update currently consists of "Varallo died on 30 August, 2010, in his hometown of La Plata at the age of 100" and is unreferenced. Ideally, we'd have a death section with a paragraph or 2 of information and reaction, but at the very least we need one decent sized, well sourced paragraph in the after retirement section. The rest of the article could also use some work, especially with sourcing. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Support being the record goalscorer for the Boca Juniors is a big deal, I believe they are one of the top few clubs in Argentina - and it sounds like he held that record for a long time. Not to mention being the sole survivor of the inaugural world cup. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:38, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • This has the support to go up, what it doesn't have is the update or the sourcing. Courcelles 17:55, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I've added references to the article from the English language obituaries, but am struggling with the death section, mainly because 3/4 of the news articles are in Spanish and my grasp of the language is minimal. Argentina is a football mad country so I'm sure there are plenty of tributes out there... --Daviessimo (talk) 19:28, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I've added some more sources, this looks ready to go. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Posted The article looks fine to go. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
BTW, please feel free to suggest a better blurb. There are a few ways this one could be done. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:59, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Edgar Valdez

BBC - I'm sure we have in the past posted the arrests (as opposed to convictions) of major criminals and I think this fella falls into this category. He is wanted in the US, but has been arrested in Mexico. Thoughts? --Daviessimo (talk) 08:30, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

oppose see the Pakistan cricket betting below.(Lihaas (talk) 09:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC));
But there is a precedent with known criminals to post the arrest, rather than conviction, particularly when there is an arrest warrant or extradition papers have been filed --Daviessimo (talk) 09:28, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

HP pays U.S. $55m

Business stories don't usually make it, but considering HP is a tech company it could be of interest to our tech-savvy readers. ~DC Let's Vent 03:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support, an underrepresented topic and the company seems to be very large and to have an international presence. No link? Here is The Sydney Morning Herald. --candlewicke 05:02, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose goldman was fined, there are countless companies fined/failed and they have no reason to go up. Whatr about M&A? much bigger if you need corporate ITN. Potash for some $20billion, yesterday 3M's Cogent for $1billion..(Lihaas (talk) 06:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC));
Oppose - I don't see any significance. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 07:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Goldman or Citibank you expect. For me this is unusual due to the perception, rightly or wrongly, that HP was that rarity, an honest and user friendly corporation. I think this story will prove of interest worldwide; many of us are using HP gear. Jusdafax 07:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Satyam Corp. -- who would have expected such widespread fraud?talk) 06:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Can't even find a mention of it in the HP article. Maybe I'm missing it. --Smashvilletalk 15:27, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Pakistan match-fixing allegations

Surprised no one has brought this but its all over the international news, even the American (CNN) has it (and thats saying something for cricket). To paraphrase the story: News of the World published an article alleging they had paid 4 Pakistani cricketers and there were apparently 3 made-to-order no-balls as per the what was "paid" for. Then there was an arrest and an investigation by british police of the cricketers, the investigation was to spread to some 82 tests including a supposedly famous victory by Australia against Pakistan (which has brought other allegations and reaction (including that they had been approached) and reaction from across Pakistani politics).

Dont know where the article is, but is this certainly big news like the match-fixing about a decade ago that finished the careers of Hansie Cronje and MOhammed Azharuddin, amongst others (Ajay Jadeja, etc)(Lihaas (talk) 03:30, 31 August 2010 (UTC));
wait till something is actually proven or some real punishment given. by the looks of it that may not take too long. -- Ashish-g55 04:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
wait - Agree that we should until more is known. I'm fairly certain that the NotW evidence is inadmissible in court because it is hidden camera footage. I personally would see what the ICC do. If they hand life bans to any players or ban Pakistan from international test cricket for a period then I think that will be the big story... --Daviessimo (talk) 08:25, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support after punishment is announced assuming they are guilty of course. I'd prefer a link to spot-fixing (which I created) rather than match fixing as the allegations relate only to no balls AFAIK  Francium12  16:01, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
you can update the Pak-eng test page to reflect this if you feel so Lihaas (talk) 01:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC));

August 30


2010 Bratislava shootings

- 6 deaths 8 deaths, 19 injured after a shooting in the capital of Slovakia. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:31, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Support seems significant - though the article needs significant improvement. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:34, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - but wait until it is clear what was going on. --Tone 10:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Probably someone will start a AFD discussion quickly.- Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Conditionally it sounds reasonable as per the various shooting in Germany/Finland. but it needs more info as to what happened/why/response, etc.
Also, someone should attack the relevant WikiProjects to the talk pages {{Disaster management}} as well as Slovakia, etc.(Lihaas (talk) 10:55, 30 August 2010 (UTC));
  Done -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment this looks ready to post. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:53, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose I don't this significance here at all. ~DC Let's Vent 18:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey? Where are you from? In Europe for example the last similar event occurred in Dec 2009 in Finland. In US that happens two or three per week. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:02, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
No they don't. ~DC Let's Vent 19:06, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Huh? This is a tragic and unusual event for a quite country like Slovakia. Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Take a look at [5]. Americans 41? - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:17, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
The Connecticut mass shooting was the biggest one in the U.S. this year and the biggest in Connecticut in 20 years. The common refrain from non-Americans during the vote on the Connecticut shooting that that kind of thing is an everyday occurrence in America is another example of people making ITN votes without knowing what they're talking about, and I'm sorry if that ticks people off to hear, but it's unarguable. Oh, and by the way, there was a 12-death shooting spree in England in June. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
When, out of interest, was the last comparable event in Slovakia? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:48, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
According to the Telegraph "Slovakia...experienced some shooting incidents involving criminal gangs in the 1990s, but has had no large-scale shootings in recent years." I know it's vague but it's the best I could find. ~DC Let's Vent 23:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Outside the US these things happen far more rarely. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm neutral. These things are a lot rarer in Europe than they are in the US and the article is well-developed, but 6 deaths isn't that many and this event doesn't seem to have had much impact on anything—it's just a madman shooting some people. If some controversy is generated from this, if it's part of some ongoing political struggle or if something else come to light that makes it more than just a madman with a gun, I might support. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:26, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
8 deaths is the death toll. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:34, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
comment is there anything special about this shooting other than country? The ratio of nutjobs to normal people maybe slightly higher in US but i dont think thats a good enough argument to put this on unless something special took place. For ex. hostage situation in the bus shootout -- Ashish-g55 21:14, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Early indications suggest it was unprovoked, just a tosser with some guns in the streets of Bratislava. He did kill a family of gypsies, but the significance of that (possible attempt at genocide?) is unclear and likely will remain so for long enough to make this stale.  f o x  22:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Support including because it is (i) unusual for the continent and can't recall anything similar ever having occurred in Slovakia, (ii) the event took place in more than one location and it was necessary to warn people to stay indoors, (iii) perhaps Bratislava being the country's capital and largest city is important as well, perhaps not (iv) article is developed. Those reasons hopefully avoid any references to the United States or that a similar rare and fatal incident in the United Kingdom was posted recently. --candlewicke 22:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Support with the opinion that we should have had the Connecticut shooting as well. Contrary to what you might think, shootings of such magnitude do not happen all the time in America and (you know what comes next) it's absurd that given two pretty much identical events, we would run the one from a country where less than 0.5% of our readership comes from and not the one from where most of our readership resides. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose on the sole criterion that the sourcing is a disaster--most of the attacks and all of the perpetrator and victims sections are unreferenced, and I don't have time to find stuff ATM. If that's addressed, than I would support this. C628 (talk) 22:58, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Just another article from our WP:NOTNEWS' fan Eugen Simion. No historical significance. Take these articles to Wikinews! Diego Grez (talk) 00:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
A report on al jazeera just showed the context of the attack with the death of an unusually high number of Roma, which goes in hand with the general antiziganist feeling in Europe right now, especially in the light of France's expulsiosn and general sentiment in Italy.
Ill in fact turn my vote into a strong support (when and if the article discusses all this) Lihaas (talk) 10:55, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
I could yet bring myself to support this, but the article isn't up to scratch. If the whole thing were properly sourced, it could sway me. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
The article has a good shape. Somebody will have to post the deadliest civilian attack in the history of modern Slovakia. Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:25, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - deadliest attack since Slovakian independence certainly seems significant in my opinion --Daviessimo (talk) 10:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Could someone get rid of the bare URL's in the citations? It can't hit the main page like that. Courcelles 17:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
      Done Diego Grez (talk) 18:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment there are now a couple of totally unreferenced sections. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
The IP seems to keep adding all these unreferenced bits. Either fact them and await or remove. It should be ready for posting soon enough.Lihaas (talk) 10:55, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  Administrator note:There are several massive chunks of totally unsourced information. I can't put an article on the MP like that. They need to be sourced or removed, but removing them doesn't leave us with much about the aftermath or reaction, which I would expect to see in an article on an incident more than 36 hours ago. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
The IP doesn't have to add sources - someone else could do that ;) - I'd have done it if it wasn't bedtime when I posted here that it needed doing. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment I've removed the media section and added sources for the rest of the article, it should now be ready to post. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:02, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Hurricane Earl

 
Hurricane Earl approaching U.S. east coast.

(Fifth update, September 2) President Obama has declared an emergency exists in North Carolina and has asked federal authorities to assist in the area. This now Category four hurricane first impacted the northern Leeward Islands and islands north and is currently moving in on the United States Atlantic coast. Thankfully Earl has not done a great deal of major damage but several U.S. states are now in a declared state of emergency, with evacuations underway and headlines in papers for days. I still feel this is a good candidate, with an excellent and currently up-to-date article already written and being maintained (click on the title/Wiki-link.)

oppose huricanes are not ITN-worthy just for making landfall. If it is catastrophic then it can be renominated, but it would be WP:Crystal ball to assume its importance before the actions itself.Lihaas (talk) 09:56, 30 August 2010 (UTC))
I agree, we do not use ITN for alerts, other websites do that. Wait until the landfall and then we'll see. Hurricanes otherwise often get to ITN because of the damage they cause. --Tone 10:40, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I don't know about this. There are some reports it could hit lower parts of the United States (probably exaggeration by the media, however) or bits of the Caribbean - I may support if it hits somewhere big, but the the Leeward Islands, probably not. Oppose -  f o x  21:56, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, since parts of the Northeast Megalopolis is now under the track forecast cone, a.k.a. the cone of doom.[6] Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 03:09, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support only after landfall (which is expected around 0000 UTC Friday (Thursday night local time)). ~DC Let's Vent 04:58, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not yet noteworthy. Agree with Lihaas that if it becomes a disaster, then it is noteworthy (God forbid). Nightw 07:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Seems to be getting a lot of media attention. YE Tropical Cyclone 14:01, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Conditional support upon entry into the Gulf Stream or if it accumulates a significant death toll. ~AH1(TCU) 19:14, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support This one could rapidly wind up and the forecast track doesn't look good either. HurricaneSpin Talk 23:02, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Already wreaked havoc in the Caribbean, could do some more damage. Syntheticalconnections (talk)(my contribs) 01:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
support iff the blurb is about caribbean damage and not a hurricane forecast for US. this is not weather network. when it does damage in US we can post that. none of this crap where the blurb was focused on it moving towards US with a mention of deaths elsewhere at the end. -- Ashish-g55 02:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose unless majordamage/multiple deaths occur. Nergaal (talk) 04:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support as nominator. We are reaching the point where millions of people's lives are being disrupted, and the story is dominating the news cycle in the USA, and getting significant play elsewhere. Not to have this story leading off ITN on the Main page today is just wrong, in my opinion. Casualities, schmasualites. Post the story already. Jusdafax 09:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Ok, now it got bad enough (too bad...). Ready to post. Please, suggest a good blurb. --Tone 10:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
This is a slight rewording of the last blurb version, I'm using the word "impacts" because that is true now and will stay fresh. May have to update further as we go, obviously.) Jusdafax 10:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
"Battered"? Bit tabloid-y. Still against this really, unless things get slow (only really mildly against it, would support if it actually hit somewhere identifiable (i.e. NC))  f o x  10:34, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
According to the Hurricane Earl article, 180,000 people were left without electric power in the islands, so I think "battered" is not inaccurate. Consensus achieved, blurb proposed. Jusdafax 10:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Could this be made shorter and without mentioning the US officials and concentrate on the effects? --Tone 11:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Very well. Up it goes. --Tone 12:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Say, could we include the photo for the article? I guess that makes the blub...
Thanks for posting. Should we include another blurb when the hurricane's impacts are felt? ~AH1(TCU) 15:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
We probably should've just waited for that. Nightw 15:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
  • The blurb on the main page now is humongous. It should probably be trimmed by 1/3. Nergaal (talk) 18:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
How about:

Boltysh crater

According to the BBC, the above may have lead to the extinction of dinosaurs 65 millions years ago. ~DC Let's Vent 03:48, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm certainly inclined to support, subject to any sciency types telling us that it's all a hoax or insignificant or suchlike.--Mkativerata (talk) 03:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
The reporting is somewhat misleading. Boltysh, at 24 km in scale, is unlikely to cause planetary devastation. We only have to look back ~5 Myr to find a crater bigger than that. By contrast, the the Chicxulub Crater is 170 km in diameter and is the largest known event in more than a billion years. In rough numbers, the Chicxulub impactor would have been ~350 times more massive than the Boltysh one. The significance of Boltysh is whether or not it suggests some sort of impact swarm at the time of Chicxulub. It was already known that Bolytsh was of the same age as Chicxulub to within a few hundred thousand years, so the suggestion of a swarm is not actually new. The new research is suggesting that these events are separated by only a few thousand years (and that Chicxulub is definitively more recent by those few thousand years, so not simultaneous). Scientifically, this is interesting, but I'm not sure the "new" part of this news (i.e. tighter age constraints) is really all that impressive for ITN. Dragons flight (talk) 04:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose (though weakly) as it a vague report that doesnt seem affirmed or supported widely, unless we are to believe the community has lent it some solid credence.Lihaas (talk) 09:54, 30 August 2010 (UTC));
Support upon verification, given that it is one of the major impacts near or at the K-T boundary and could indicate a cometary break-up that led to multiple collisions either over a long period or a much shorter period. ~AH1(TCU) 19:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Ken Wyatt

Elected to the Australian House of Representatives. Has received racist taunts and hate mail.

BBC - "the first indigenous person to do so in the country's history".
The Age - "Mr Wyatt's Aboriginal background attracted significant media attention during the campaign".
The Voice of Russia - "Australia has officially elected its first Aborigine to the House of Representatives, RIA-Nososti reports".
Radio Netherlands - "An Aboriginal man has been elected to Australia's House of Representatives, becoming the first indigenous MP in the country's history".
Toronto Sun - "Ken Wyatt won a seat in Australia's House of Representatives Sunday, becoming the first Aboriginal to do so in the country's history".
Press TV - "An Aboriginal man has been elected to Australia's House of Representatives, pledging an all-out battle against racism in the pacific nation".
The Daily Telegraph - "An Aboriginal Australian has been elected to the country’s parliament for the first time".
The Independent - "a narrow victory".

It's a piece of history, reported internationally and there seems to have been a shortage of ITNs recently. --candlewicke 03:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Barack Obama gets the same stuff. That doesn't make ITN ~DC Let's Vent 03:36, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not that significant, especially as Australia has had Indigenous Senators before (Aden Ridgeway; Neville Bonner).--Mkativerata (talk) 03:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose is the story the fact that he got elected or that he received all the hate mail? If the former then per Mkativerata i would still oppose it, and if the latter the object of hate mail is not noteworthy of itself.Lihaas (talk) 09:53, 30 August 2010 (UTC));
Oppose. This isn't even current. He was elected 10 days ago. --Smashvilletalk 18:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose The third Aborigine in Federal parliament and it's not as though he has more power or a higher post than the two before him YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:54, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

62nd Primetime Emmy Awards

Not sure why this isn't WP:ITNR, but it probably should be (hell, the BAFTA Awards aren't either). Not sure what the blurb would be, but it's something to consider, especially since 6 of the 8 stories on ITN now are older than 4 days. ~DC Let's Vent 02:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

As I understand it, the Emmies are domestic (eg British shows wouldn't be considered for the main awards). Perhaps that's why they're not on ITN/R. Anyway, subject to correction by any entertainment/TV types, I'm inclined to oppose.--Mkativerata (talk) 03:54, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
It is unclear why 62nd Primetime Emmy Awards and BAFTA Awards are more important than the many other similar events. --candlewicke 04:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
In regards to the BAFTAs, we post the Oscars already. ~DC Let's Vent 04:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Emmys are not listed under Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items. Lampman (talk) 05:49, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
So...? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 05:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
So the Emmys are not listed under Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items; I thought that might be a factor relevant to the discussion. Lampman (talk) 15:14, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose per Lampman. Unless it was to be added there through some consensus.(Lihaas (talk) 09:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC));
That's illogical. Do you even know what WP:ITNR is for? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 10:03, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
A guide? as opposed to hard-and-fast rules? "So..."
Isnt note-worthy on its own. Unless one is to add film/tv awards from everywhere.Lihaas (talk) 09:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
So now you're no longer citing WP:ITNR? That should be better. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 10:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Too US-centric, no importance in the rest of the world, or really in the States, either, where the Oscars are the big deal. Courcelles 10:22, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
For something as unimportant as this, it sure is featured prominently in the BBC's news website and the Sydney Morning Herald... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 11:06, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Support was on the BBC this morning so has international interest - seems more interesting than most of the other stuff up for inclusion. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
ok i dont think international interest can be denied since these shows are not just watched in US. yes they dont give awards to british shows or some other country but then we should add those not prevent emmy's from going up. if others feel like there are some that are equally famous/important please suggest. currently TV shows dont really make it to ITN for anything. so support iff its added to ITNR at same time. cant have this debate every damn year -- Ashish-g55 13:10, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Support, precedence notwithstanding. When taking into account mitigating circumstances such as a slow news season, and recent complaints about the negativity of WP:ITN as of late, this seems like a sufficient candidate to add some variety. Plus, as pointed out above, the story has been covered in news sources outside of the United States. I'm not saying this is necessarily comparable to Eurovision, but North America doesn't really have an equivalent to that short of the Emmys.--WaltCip (talk) 13:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Making good TV is expensive so not that many countries make TV which is regularly exported internationally. Other than the US the other country which makes a decent amount of high quality English language TV is the UK - so the BAFTA's would be appropriate. The US produces far more TV that is watched internationally than the UK though.

I'd imagine that the Indians also do and that appropriate awards for them - and definitely for Bollywood movies - should be on ITN/R too. Japanese anime awards could possibly also be worthy of posting - if the articles are up to it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:40, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

It depends on the blurb. What would we put on ITN? Just the fact that the ceremony took place is not enough. Is there a single winner that we could highlight? --Tone 13:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
we could do the two main awards. Modern Family for comedy and Mad Men for Drama. -- Ashish-g55 13:58, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Maybe something like the following for the blurb: Mad Men wins the drama prize and Modern Family wins the comedy prize at the 62nd Primetime Emmy Awards - I'm not a big fan of the 'prize' bit though. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:49, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
How about "Mad Men wins for Outstanding Drama Series and Modern Family wins for Outstand Comedy..." ~DC Let's Vent 18:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Much better. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:56, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm going to post this, because the timer is red and this has a stronger consensus at the minute than the shooting, which is the only other candidate that could be considered ready for posting. Discussion on whether it should be added to ITN/R can take place on WT:ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Can we switch it to my wording. Drama and comedy prize sound awkward. ~DC Let's Vent 21:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Post-posting support - highly recommend adding this (and probably the BAFTAs) to ITNR.  f o x  22:00, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
@ DC I've commented on WP:ERRORS about the wording. @ Fox, I've started an WP:ITN/R thread for that. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


August 29


Toy Story 3

  • Toy Story 3 becomes the first animation movie to gross over $1 billion.

Since very few updates have been posted recently. Nergaal (talk) 18:37, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Trivial, unless is breaks Avatar's record, it doesn't have the significance for the main page. Courcelles 19:32, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose until/if it is the highest grossing film ever. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:33, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose posting anything that's the highest-grossing in some genre that conveniently omits some other film that was the highest-grossing. We should limit the ITN slot to the highest-grossing film. Full stop. In other words, when something comes along and beats Avatar's record, I'll support, but not before. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:31, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for the exact same reason as last time. Avatar was mostly animated...most movies these days involve CGI animation...so...where's the cut off? --Smashvilletalk 15:01, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per above. Diego Grez (talk) 17:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Mt Sinabung

 
Mount Sinabung in 1987.

Support - Having just read this on Reuters. I'll add a bit to the article. Jusdafax 08:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Support clearly interesting and important, and the timer is now red. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:50, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Support, I'd just like to see some more update as the article has just two paragraphs at the moment. --Tone 08:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

  Done Included a casualty, poor soul. Jusdafax 09:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC) Suggested blurb:
Thank you, posting. --Tone 10:02, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
What about the photo in the article? Looks good, even if it isn't of eruptive activity. If you use it you will have to add (pictured) of course. But I'm sick of that bus and we need a new photo. Also the tense is wrong in my blurb, the correct form is produces - thanks. Jusdafax 10:13, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Photo added, tense has been changed. I haven't spotted that before, thanks for mentioning. --Tone 10:15, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
One other thing and I hate to bring this up. Images are an area I'm not real strong in. I just noticed the photo has a 'deprecated!' tag on it. I have no idea what that means, but I thought I'd best bring it up now that I see it. Jusdafax 10:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Why was this added after only some 2 hours of debate (not saying this was wrong per se), but the SOlomon Islands ITN is lying ignored DESPITE a majority vote to support its addition?(Lihaas (talk) 11:24, 29 August 2010 (UTC));

Last of the Summer Wine

  • Frankly, I can't stand the programme, and will not be at all disappointed if it does not make ITN, but at the beginning of the current, last ever series of the world's longest running sitcom (insert unpopular political party or rival sports team of your choice here as an alternative) it was proposed that this go up, and the consensus was to wait until the broadcast of the final episode, which is tonight. Kevin McE (talk) 08:32, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

So that the level of consensus then may be considered, June's discussion went thus:

The BBC cancel Last of the Summer Wine, the longest-running sitcom in Britain and the world. (BBC)
I know there are more important events going on here, but I thought I would just mention this. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 17:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
*I'm sorry, June, I could get behind this in a slow news week... but this isn't a slow news week. Getting it ran as today's FA on the day the finale screens would be my suggestion. Courcelles (talk) 18:08, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
*It's fine. Like you said, if it was a slow news week... - JuneGloom07 Talk? 18:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Oppose: I agree with Courcelles. It is not really a big news story. ISD (talk) 18:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
*Support IF it is indeed the longest running sitcom in the world, a fact on which I have some doubts. MickMacNee (talk) 20:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
*I don't know but I have been able to find sources saying it is.
**The Press Association - "Last Of The Summer Wine has now run to more than 30 series and is the world's longest-running sitcom".
**RTÉ - "The BBC has announced that its golden years comedy series 'Last of the Summer Wine', the world's longest-running TV sitcom, is to end".
Support. Guiding Light was posted. I know little about either of them. --candlewicke 21:04, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Leaning towards oppose. And as I see, what I wanted to say (maybe, if it was a slow news week) has already been presented. --Tone 21:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Per the article, the cancellation of the show was merely announced. The show is supposed to cease airing AFTER the current season (which has not begun) concludes. And we've seen in the past where networks have changed their minds about cancellations. Until the last episode runs, there is no reason to post this. However, when the last episode runs and the show has actually reached its conclusion, I will support. --Smashvilletalk 21:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, at least until the final episode airs. Also, I hadn't realised it was still running, thought it ended years ago! Modest Genius talk 14:02, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

As suggested back then, it is TFA today. Kevin McE (talk) 09:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


Support seems pretty notable as well. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:51, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Support, after all, a consensus has been reached before and the article is a FA. But we should wait until it airs, there is also no update in the article yet (just says it will end this summer). --Tone 08:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I missed the fact that it is TFA. --Tone 09:49, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose even if its the longest running show (which would give it credence akin to a long running play taken off stage), its only ITN-worthy when it ends (ie- the final episode airs) not if the season just started.(Lihaas (talk) 11:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC));
Uh, the last episode screens today. The discussion above was for context, and dates back to June (when the final series started. TFOWR 11:12, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Why was this added in only 2 hours of discussion (note that this was a bad move, per se), but the Solomon Islands election which does have more support than opposition still is neglected? Meant to add to the volcano debate above.Lihaas (talk) 11:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC));
Uh (again!) it's not been added. It's today's featured article, and I doubt it'll get posted to ITN. TFOWR 11:12, 29 August 2010 (UTC) Heh! Makes sense. Philip's election as PM now on ITN anyway (cheers, Tone!) TFOWR 11:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Yeah that would be redundant to the max. Jusdafax 11:18, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
I am actually willing to post the Solomon islands when I get one more support, see below. --Tone 11:25, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I would support this inclusion if it wasnt for the FA on the main page covering it. Its very sad its the final episode (ill have to tune in for the first time in years), and then on tuesday the end of The Bill. Sigh =( BritishWatcher (talk) 11:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose because (and only because) it's the TFA. The purpose of ITN is to draw attention to articles updated to reflect some sort of current event. This meets all the criteria, but it's being drawn attention to by it's slot on TFA. If we don't feature D-Day or the Hiroshima bombing on two sections of the Main Page at the same time, we shouldn't do so with this. Had it not been TFA today, though, I would have supported without hesitation. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose ^this. Having it twice is a bit much.  f o x  16:30, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

800 metres world record

David Lekuta Rudisha lowers his own 800 metres world record to 1:41.01 seconds. —bender235 (talk) 01:01, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. I think we should only post records that have (a) stood for an unusually long period of time; or (b) are a significant historical milestone. As this guy is merely breaking his own record of a couple of weeks ago, we shouldn't post it. Maybe if he breaks 1:40 because that would be considered a significant milestone in track history.--Mkativerata (talk) 01:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. He broke the record. Good for him. He broke his own record a few days later. Meh. As Mkativerata says, though, a case could be made for posting a new record if it breaks 1:40. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
This would be a new record though..In that case ill weak support it.(Lihaas (talk) 09:58, 30 August 2010 (UTC));
OK, so what if he breaks his own record again tomorrow or next week? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:31, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 10:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
There are so many world records that we can't list them all. For example in swimming, in the last years, several have been set at every championship. The 800m record stood for more than 10 years - and now it is the same athlete who improved it. Conditional support if he gets below 1:40, I agree. --Tone 10:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not notable event. Diego Grez (talk) 17:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong support if he breaks the record three times in a row in a short period of time (i.e. within a few months). If a record stood for 10 years then a guy comes and breaks it three times in a row in a short period that is really notable. Nergaal (talk) 00:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

August 28


iran-Lebanon arms cooperations

Per the message in the box above, Iran answers Lebanon call to help fund its following the American threats to cut off funds on fears that they would reach Hezbollah following a clash on the southern border earlier. In light of the tensions mounting and threats of war between Iran and israel (and Syria) this is another step in the lead to a possible wider conflict. It also further stregnthens Iran's ties to the country beyond Hezbollah. (where the opposition is growing in both potency and popularity it seems, its not just a "marginalised" Shia Lebanese thing anymore) Its also somewhat akin to the Colombia-Venezuela flare up we posted a few weeks ago.

btw- i hope this is a good explanation of events/relevants(Lihaas (talk) 03:18, 29 August 2010 (UTC));

Marc Ravalomanana sentencing

Considering a slow news week, i think this might warrant an ITN if the article is well covered. A former head of state sentenced to life in prison is not something that happens everyday or everywhere. Not akin to international coverage that Omar Bashir got, but still.(Lihaas (talk) 01:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC));

A WP article and a source would be nice. We can't read your mind. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Its in the box above.Lihaas (talk) 01:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
  DoneLihaas (talk) 01:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose since nothing much has happened. He was sentenced last February as well and the court has handed down another token sentence, but he's currently in exile, so the chances of him actually serving his sentence in the near future are slim. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:14, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

2010 Damghan earthquake

A 5.7 earthquake hits Iran killing 3, injuring dozens. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 08:10, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose Numbers are too small; similar ones occur too frequently. SpencerT♦C 15:36, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose, probably a merge to 2010 earthquakes would be relevant in this case. --Tone 16:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose Eugen Simion, I strongly suggest you to submit these articles to Wikinews, the free news source, not Wikipedia. That earthquake has not provoked mayor damage, and has no historical significance (I'm sure Iran has had stronger earthquakes). So, no. Diego Grez (talk) 02:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Barely noticeable. These kinds of quakes occur every day all over the world and 5.7 isn't that strong. I'll AfD the article in the morning if nobody beats me to it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
I just did ;) Diego Grez (talk) 02:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

August 27


New Kenyan Constitution

(BBC) After a twenty year debate, a new constitution is adopted. I suppose the article is Proposed Constitution of Kenya, 2010, but that needs to be moved and updated etc etc. —  Cargoking  talk  10:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

conditional support was the referendum posted on ITN. if not, one can include it in the blurb, if so then i oppose this second addition.(Lihaas (talk) 11:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC));
I seemed to remember the vote going up, but noticed the article was never tagged, so I'm not so sure now. Courcelles 16:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Should have trusted myself, seems I reworded the item myself! A different article than I was thinking was tagged, but that's not enough to put this back up a mere 3 weeks later. Courcelles 16:48, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
The article is largely a bulleted list right now, and I don't think this is the kind of subject matter we can assume the community will improve to a great extent. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Aijalon Gomes released

Major story here in America, also getting coverage in Britain BBC Sky, Canada Vancouver Sun, Middle-east al-jazeera, South Korea Chosun Ilbo, China Xinhua. ~DC Let's Vent 04:20, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose cant do this every time some american gets released. ie- those 2 in N. Korea last time. What about the the spaniards in Mauritania? or the the death of the frenchman following a french raid in the Sahel (far more notable in the precedence set through the course of actions)(Lihaas (talk) 05:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC));
Oppose Stubborn missionaries are always disobeying the law and entering and preaching illegally. Too bad. They know the law of the country, we can't have these pointless sob stories and then for death row drug traffickers as well. No YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 05:19, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose He broke the law, he got arrested and, tried, convicted, and put in jail. Honestly, folks, where's the story? That Pyongyang can be swayed by ex-Presidents to release criminals is curious, but not really significant. Courcelles 11:18, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per courcelles--Wikireader41 (talk) 12:16, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the article is good enough to link to from ITN, but I wish people wouldn't let their personal opinions about stories influence their votes. Our decisions should be based on ITN criteria, not what we think about a guy. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
and I would argue as humans it is impossible for editors (or anybody else) to completely dissociate their actions from how they perceive the incident. this happens both at conscious and subconscious levels, is not under voluntary control and this is what makes us human. if we want total objectivity then perhaps we should have a computer program select the items but that too will be affected by the personality of the programmer. having said that I was surprised by unanimous opposition to this. apparently being an American and a proselytizer will not get you !votes on ITN.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

August 26


Oldest Arrowheads found

BBC. 64000 year old arrows found. "Closer inspection of the ancient weapons revealed remnants of blood and bone that provided clues about how they were used." "The discovery pushes back the development of 'bow and arrow technology' by at least 20,000 years." The old flute turned out to be most supported item ever. Now we found an arrow. -- Ashish-g55 20:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Support seems significant. What's the article? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:31, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Support on the condition that an article or expanded section of one can be created or already exists. Jusdafax 21:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Support provided an adequate update / article can be created--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
updated Arrowhead with whatever info i could get out of the article. I dont have access to actual research paper but like the flute only so much can be added since its ancient discovery. -- Ashish-g55 03:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
per another nomination below, a paragraph withina subsection doesnt warrant space for ITN, is there more? perhaps as to its importance/precedence in the field of archaeology?
weak oppose in the interim, can be easily made to change my vote ;)(Lihaas (talk) 05:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC));
yes I would agree we need more substatntial update otherwise what happened to Chinese traffic jam may happen here too.--Wikireader41 (talk) 06:10, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
So, what's the situation with this one? We have a paragraph of update, the found has been published in a journal, there are references... Ready to post? --Tone 16:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Looks that way to me, just need a blurb. Courcelles 16:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Archeologists excavate arrowheads in Sibudu Cave, South Africa, indicating the use of bow and arrow 64,000 years ago. Something like that? -- Ashish-g55 18:54, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Timer's red, so posting.  f o x  23:43, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
please try and follow the ITN adding procedure. the clock needs to be reset, credits... etc. dont care too much but its nice to see those -- Ashish-g55 01:46, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just going to say, can someone reset the clock because its not been 24 hours.Lihaas (talk) 05:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.176.43 (talk)
Timer reset, roughly. I think it's actually an hour too fast, but close enough and no longer red. Courcelles 08:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I actually edit-conflicted with Courcelles. My bad.  f o x  08:54, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh, as for the credits, I had to sleep. ;) I'll get that the now.  f o x  08:57, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Khimki Forest

"Amid protests, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev suspends the construction a highway project that could have endagered the Khimki Forest."[10] Article has been updated. Offliner (talk) 17:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Support. A significant environmental story that has gone to the top excecutive in power. ~AH1(TCU) 17:56, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 19:00, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
weak oppose 1. international coverage? havent seen this in prominence, 2. isnt this a continuation of forest fires in the country already posted?(Lihaas (talk) 23:55, 26 August 2010 (UTC));
Oppose/Conditional support - The term suspension implies that construction is liable to be reinitiated at any time. And at the very least, there's nothing within the blurb that suggests the construction was halted as a result of the protests. Perhaps change the wording to reflect this?--WaltCip (talk) 07:15, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
(ec) Support - I've been looking around and see this story gaining attention. I have added a sourced paragraph to the WP article noting the U2 frontman Bono took a stand against the highway route through the forest at a concert in front of 60,000 fans; the project was suspended by the Russian chief-of-state the next day. This ups the ante on the story considerably. The article isn't perfect but it's close to decent, I'd say. Good international story with broad appeal for ITN, in my view. Jusdafax 07:21, 27 August 2010 (UTC) Proposed blurb:
Oppose. This is a local-interest environmentalist story. __meco (talk) 07:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment - All you have to do is Google 'Khimki Forest' to see coverage from around the globe. I urge you to dig a bit deeper, as I originally was unimpressed until I looked into this. Further: the involvement of an international rock star and a chief-of-state negate your point, in my view. Jusdafax 07:37, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
the international aspect does lend more credibility, but are there sources that affirm the connection to the suspension. What i've read so far was an appeal by Putin to Medvedev (this itself could be something) to halt it on behalf of United Russia.Lihaas (talk) 23:55, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose This is a local interest story with some international attention but not much. I can't currently see any mention of it on the BBC News website or CNN.com.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:00, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose: minimal international interest; Strongly oppose any "celeb" driven agenda here. Kevin McE (talk) 11:31, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
To clarify, if it's green and there's a bullet flying towards it, Bono's there to jump in the way. Nothing too unusual to see him involved.  f o x  08:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

August 25


Canada to ban Bisphenol-A

Star. Had to read a lot to figure out why this is "historic move". Canada banned it from baby bottles and a large part of the world followed it as apparent from the article. "Canada had been the first country in the world to declare that it intended to label BPA a toxic substance. Even now, the action would have international resonance". I dont know how the banning procedure will work and if will just be banned on some particular day. Most likely it will be a phase out so the intent to ban is most likely going to be of much more interest. -- Ashish-g55 20:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I love that nomination but think we need a different blurb, anyone got a blurb? Mr. R00t Talk 20:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose. even though a story out of Canada would be nice once in a while I doubt this is it. could not find much international coverage at all. "estrogen-like effects are suspected of creating havoc with hormone levels." !!!!! maybe Physchim62 will comment on this[11]--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:43, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
this isn't really a story that would get international coverage right away. most people will not know what it is. this has encyclopedic value thats all. Estrogen effects in men cant be a good thing lol. -- Ashish-g55 13:12, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
well this is ITN and we are discussing what is "in the news". the medpage article seems to suggest that it increases testosterone levels in men and has no effect on women. unless you have prostate cancer increasing testosterone levels in men generally is a good thing. anyway would love to see more Canadian stories on ITN for sure.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I love to see science stories on ITN, but only if there's a good reason behind them. This story is (unfortunately) rather "run-of-the-mill". Changing the classification of BPA from "harmful" to "toxic" is not a huge move, it just means you've killed a few more rats... The European Union Risk Assessment Report from February 2010 concluded that BPA "[met] the T criterion" (ie, it's toxic, see p 139 of the PDF file). The human cohort study cited by Wikireader is interesting, and is consistent with many other studies, but I don't think it's enough on its own to justify an ITN story: we would really need its inclusion in the Rotterdam Convention, which is a long way off. Physchim62 (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Filair plane crash

20 fatalities in Congo [12] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Already we have another news like this on ITN but IMO 20 deaths it's pretty big. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 17:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I have to ask, what is the point of creating an "article" whose only content is On August 25, 2010, at least 20 people were killed in Congo after a plane crash near Bandundu? Seriously, that's just enough to escape speedy deletion under A1. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Or for that matter, On 24 August 2010 a plane crash in Nepal. [13] Modest Genius talk 17:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Sigh. That's almost a textbook A1! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:03, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unless this turns out to be much bigger than it currently appears. Modest Genius talk 17:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

String of Attacks in Iraq kill over 50

These coordinated attacks in 13 locations come as the U.S. states the number of troops it has in Iraq is now below 50,000. Article started at 25 August 2010 Iraq bombings. Jusdafax 15:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Those bullet points will need to be converted into prose and the references could do with proper formatting. I'm currently neutral on this one. On the one hand, these attacks are far from uncommon, but on the other, 50 seems an unusually high death toll. I could be swayed by a decent article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Agree the article needs some work. I will be unable to do it myself for the next several hours, so if anyone wants to take a swing at it, that would be great. I see that Reuters has the number of dead at over 60. Jusdafax 19:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just going to nominate this and ask if there is a page, i see there is one. Over 50 dead and about 200 wounded which is a busy day even for the iraqi insurgency so support when the article is get set to go.
update: ive added some more and cleaned it a bit, but it can sure use more. (including ref cleanup)Lihaas (talk) 02:09, 26 August 2010 (UTC));

  Done I think the article is decent now, and my thanks to Lihaas for getting the ball rolling on the article work. I have additionally expanded it, and cleaned up all refs. I'd like to see some reasonably rapid feedback; I now Support per HJ Mitchell's comment - these particular attacks are unusual, and the timing re: the announced U.S. pullout date, and the co-ordinated 13 city, Iraq-wide scope, make this a good ITN addition. Jusdafax 04:55, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Support from me but it would be good to convert the refs into citenews format so we know who published them. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

  Done Refs are now all citenews. Jusdafax 06:42, 26 August 2010 (UTC) Proposed blurb:

Posted -- tariqabjotu 10:29, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, and my thanks to all who made this one possible. A very sad story, obviously, but good job getting it to ITN. Jusdafax 11:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
could someone (tariqabjotu, the admin in this case) lock the page as its filling with rubbish vandalism/test edits now that its on the main page.Lihaas (talk) 02:09, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Mexican deaths

"Mexican troops have uncovered at least 72 bodies on a ranch in northeastern Mexico." Related to an ongoing drugs war. —  Cargoking  talk  12:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

people dont realise but this would never get to ITn without at least an articele, or even section..Lihaas (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support the article which could be updated would be Mexican Drug War--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - significant and timely, but withdrawing support if there is no direct article or reasonably-detailed section in the article. Jusdafax 14:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Significant event. ~AH1(TCU) 14:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, once update completed and/or article created. I think an appropriate place to start would be Mexican Drug War#Escalation, but this may warrant an article of its own as well. Ks0stm (TCG) 15:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support as per above.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • My personal opinion is that this should be covered in an existing article, where the reader can access all the relevant background information. There seems little to be gained from creating an entirely new article. Regardless, we need an update somewhere. the consensus seems pretty clear, so the update is the only thing holding it back. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

It is now the BBC's main story: "Murdered bodies found in Mexico 'were migrants'"  Cargoking  talk  22:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

We can certainly do something like that for all the Iraq/Afghan/Pakistan attacks to put on pne page per year (with sections for details) instead of hordes of new articles. (i admit ive done this too)Lihaas (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
except that notable attacks occur in those parts of the world so frequently that any attempt to have a single article cover everything would break WP:LIMIT--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose i may be outnumbered in the tally, but this is the first response in regard to the article. The article itself it just 1 paragraph that is an assortment of paraphrases from various sources. Dont think it adds anything new. especially since notability is not affirmed by official sources (whose reactions would indicate severity) on either side of the border.Lihaas (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Without a decent and/or direct article I'll have to strike my support and join you in an Oppose Jusdafax 10:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. As per above, a specific article on this event is not required and a better way of linking is directly to the Mexican Drug War article. There is no policy that states a specific article is required for the bold link. ~AH1(TCU) 17:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
True enough, but as I see it the five lines devoted to the killings in the lengthy article are unsuitable, as Lihaas has noted. The information badly needs expanding. I am sorry to change my support, but I don't think directing main page readers to this stub of a mention is proper. Happy to reconsider if some enhancement is created. Jusdafax 21:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
The text has been moved by someone to Timeline of the Mexican Drug War. Is there any point of updating that further? Is the article itself good enough for the main page? —  Cargoking  talk  10:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
timeline is similar to the drugs war page. Arent there more details and reactions as suggested above? It would increase notability if the mexican/usa leadership said something at least as to how grave the situation is becoming..Lihaas (talk) 11:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC));
Well the President has 'condemned the killings'. —  Cargoking  talk  16:37, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Danny Philip

  • Nominate the election of Danny Philip as Prime Minister of the Solomon Islands following the general election. The article just needs to be expanded to reflect the election. Scanlan (talk) 01:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The general election page is more suited to get on as the main bold article. (it was nominated before but rejected becasue the article was not up to scratch, if it was however it would certainly be ITN-Worth)(Lihaas (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC));
True the general election article needs some work, but there is a precendent on ITN for highlighting a change in the top leadership of a nation. Scanlan (talk) 11:41, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - but surely in a parliamentary system the elected political party is more important than the leader, because that is who the population are voting for --Daviessimo (talk) 11:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
can always improve the election article...Lihaas (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - population not high enough to be significant internationally. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
ITN rules say all sovereign states (as opposed to partial recognition or subnational entities) get the election results published.Lihaas (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
That's not a rule, that's a recurring item listing, which is an "an attempt to standardize which (items) get included," according to WP:ITN/R. I think we are being way too -- I don't know what the word is, "mathematical," perhaps? -- if we're going to say all events of type X and no events of type Y get included, no matter what. Any item has to meet the original ITN criteria: be in the news, be "of wide interest to the encyclopedia's readers" and either have quality, recently updated Wikipedia content behind it or be likely to see that content show up soon. Right now, the article has an expansion tag on it, and because of the relative obscurity of the subject matter, it's questionable whether people are going to improve the article enough to make it worth linking to on the Main Page. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
The Solomon Islands are a sovereign state, same as Russia amd China. A change of leadership should be featured in ITN, as it has in the past. Scanlan (talk) 15:07, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
They may be sovereign but they're not the same as Russia or China. Oppose since it's not of wide enough interest. ~DC Let's Vent 17:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment I'd certainly support any change of leadership in a country with a population of greater than about 5 million. Russia and China are definitely well into that category. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:36, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
That leaves only twp countries in Oceania -- Australia and PNG, and leaves out countries such as NZ and Ireland, but you guys will probably add those two because one is in Europe and the other is mostly white. :P –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 08:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd support New Zealand and Ireland as both are English speaking. However at least they are both fairly close to 5 million - the Solomon islands are nowhere near. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
That's the point -- Even if you'd add up the rest of Oceania excluding PNG, Australia and NZL I don't think they'd reach 5 million. We'd be omitting several countries' elections from ITN. Granted I don't think anyone cares about elections in Pitcairn Island, or even Eastern Island, but how about Fiji, this country, Vanuatu, etc.? If Samoa qualifies for the Rugby World Cup final they'd be there but their national elections won't. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:22, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

───────────────────────── A country the size of New Zealand - who on the scale of things seem pretty small are actually the 123rd biggest country which means there are 70 odd countries that are smaller than that.

Now admittedly Fiji is one I have actually heard of, but I'd be struggling to name more than about a dozen countries with a population lower than 4 million. Out of the countries bigger than about 5 million I could probably have a good go at naming the majority of them. It seems unnecessary to post national elections in countries where there is less significance to the world than who the mayor or New York, London or any other major world city is.

That said if nothing else is suitable for posting I'll retract my oppose here. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:12, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

nearly 24 hours since a posting, with nothign else happening above this election page (NOT the PM page) can get a belated posting with my [weak] support Lihaas (talk) 11:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC))
What's missing in the article is how Philip was chosen as the new PM, otherwise it looks OK; I've seen other articles with worse states being added there. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:24, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I've said this before, but using population as some indicator of the importance of a national election is fundamentally flawed. Whatever happened to applying the logic of "Correlation does not imply causation". Just because a country has a large population does not automatically mean its elections are more important than those with small populations. Ireland is well known in global politics due to issues over NI, yet its population is only just over 1/10th of that of Tanzania, a country I suspect most people couldn't locate on a map, let alone know anything about politically. Likewise, countries such as Bosnia, Kosovo, Cyprus, Palestine and Lebanon all have populations below 5m, but have been involved in major global geo-political issues over the last 20 years. I mean, are we really advocating ignoring elections in Bosnia or Lebanon on the basis that because they have populations <5m, they are somehow insignificant or unimportant? --Daviessimo (talk) 18:50, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
Three out of those five (Lebanon, Palestine and Bosnia) are pretty close to having a population of 5 million with a population of over 4 million apiece. And Ireland is in the same boat. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
Guys, stop. This is really not relevant here, if you want to discuss the notability of separate countries, discuss it on the talkpage, not on the nomination section. Regarding this nom, Philip's article has a sufficient update imo. --Tone 20:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
why isnt this on yet? its been so many hours and a majority of supporters..Lihaas (talk) 11:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC))
There is clearly not anything close to even a rough consensus on this one and not exactly a groundswell of support. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 08:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Given the timers red, and everything else looks even worse I Support as its a slow news week. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

  • I'll go and post "Danny Philip is elected Prime Minister of Solomon islands, following general election." when I get one more support. --Tone 09:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Its 4-1 for addition..(Sanclan, Daviessmo, me, and Eraser head vs. DC. (Eraserhead's oppose was changed to support)
as an aside, the general election link being the bold part as per usual election coverage? Lihaas (talk) 11:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Posting. As for bolding, Philip's article has more update IMO. Feel free to change it later. --Tone 11:31, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
I'll Support as I was confused, I kept waiting for Solomon Islands general election, 2010 to get updated and it never did, but the Danny Philip article is fine. Jusdafax 11:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Okay, ive just added some stuff to the election article from Phillips (As stuff not concerning him per se, was more suited to the election). can we change?(Lihaas (talk) 11:52, 29 August 2010 (UTC));

August 24


New Solar System found

  • Scientists found a new solar system about 100 light years away. Not sure if an article exists yet, but I found plenty of press coverage. [14], [15], [16]. ~DC Let's Vent 21:09, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
HD 10180 could be an article to start on, or Extrasolar_planet#2010. ~DC Let's Vent 21:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose - this research has not yet been published or gone through peer review. Regardless of how interesting it may be, we should not be publishing science stories until they've been peer reviewed. Anyone can submit something to a journal, that's doesn't mean it's not a load of nonsense (actually in this case I'm pretty sure it's not, but the principle stands). Modest Genius talk 21:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose these are found with such regularity that they're rarely "news" of general interest. Wait till they call us, then THAT will be news. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. This discovery seems somewhat unusual given that the closest planet ("b") has a mass similar to Earth, although it's so close to its parent star that it's likely to be totally fried. ~AH1(TCU) 14:27, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Sounds interesting, but would oppose until this information is formally published by a journal (per Modest Genius, essentially). NW (Talk) 15:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Technically, this headline is incorrect; there is only one solar system, as the term is specific to the system surrounding Sol. --Golbez (talk) 15:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think "not published yet in a scientific journal" should exclude this from ITN. I believe it is often the case that a discovery gets the publicity and the headlines when it is announced, not when it is published. If I'm not mistaken, many of the previous exoplanet detections were featured on ITN before they were published in a journal. For example COROT-7b was featured on ITN on 4 February 2009, when the discovery was announced. But it was only published in October 2009.[17] Offliner (talk) 15:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Just because the media has lax standards on when to report on a press conference / press release, doesn't mean we should too. You do appear to be right in the case of Corot-7b though (although the paper was accepted on 28 July 2009), that shouldn't have happened. Most scientists do the right thing and wait until peer review has been completed before publicising (for Nature and Science papers, they have to). Unfortunately it's the highly competitive fields where that doesn't always apply, because the temptation to 'scoop' other teams and get some PR is high. For the record, I think this would be a perfectly good ITN item, but a press release is not a reliable source of scientific information. Modest Genius talk 16:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/February 2009, it was posted without any support !votes whatsoever, with no discussion at all. Modest Genius talk 17:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I made the same point about the Bank of Ireland robbery at the same time. But to be fair, back then if it wasn't for User:Candlewicke and User:BorgQueen, ITN would have collapsed. At least today we have the sufficient editors with an interest in ITN that a broader consensus is easier to reach.--Daviessimo (talk) 19:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree that Wikipedia should have high standards, but I think we have a different opinion about the role of ITN. ITN stands for In The News and not for Daily Review of Scientific Journals. The discovery is in the news when it is announced, and this is when it when it should be featured on ITN. Unfortunately, I don't believe this planet system will receive any worldwide headlines when the article is published in a journal; at that point, it is no longer in the news. Offliner (talk) 19:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
And by the way, we're still waiting for the publication of this story ;) 95.25.62.177 (talk) 20:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • The notable thing about this story is the size of several planets found in this system. According to reports, they might be the first Earth-size mass planets ever found. News conference is tomorrow. Viriditas (talk) 23:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Finding the first (roughly) earth-sized exoplanets is pretty notable. Support if there is a new burst of news about it, even if not, it is worth considering based on the original news stories which got widespread play. Standing by. Jusdafax 06:48, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

UPDATE: This is getting interesting, regarding smaller exo-planets and is on the electronic front page of The New York Times. Jusdafax 17:53, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

The research was published in the journal Science today, meeting the objections raised above.[18] Viriditas (talk) 19:12, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
support per Viriditas. -- Ashish-g55 03:07, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
support. No reasons to oppose 93.80.244.184 (talk) 16:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
That paper refers to a completely different star and set of planets. Are you suggesting this as a separate nomination? Because it does nothing to address the problems with posting HD 10180. Modest Genius talk 17:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
My apologies. Major news stories are reporting both discoveries as a single story,[19] hence the confusion. The news item should mention both as well. Viriditas (talk) 19:50, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment note that the press release does contain the actual research paper as submitted to the journal [20], admittedly this does not meet the peer review criterion (but then this is "in the news", not "what's been peer reviewed"), but it is more than the typical press release. Icalanise (talk) 17:59, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Support assuming the article is good enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:48, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
support. Having read through the previous discussion I support any angle mentioned for posting this now. __meco (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Chinese traffic jam

Interesting story, I've seen this for the past few day son a few newsites. But it started 10 days ago, so it could be stale. Thoughts? ~DC Let's Vent 21:01, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I think its still ongoing, so Support. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:09, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Support as an unusual event that is getting global news coverage. Physchim62 (talk) 00:33, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support...as far as I know a traffic jam of this magnitude is unprecedented. Ks0stm (TCG) 01:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support biggest jam i ever heard of.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:38, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Ha! Reminds me of Doctor Who! Anyway, posting. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
So at the end of it, a 5 billion year-old immortal is going to fix everything? ;) Support, for the record. Courcelles 03:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. I didn't expect this story to even get nominated, let alone posted. It doesn't seem to be unprecedented, as previous traffic jams in China have lasted up to a month, although this jam is expected to last just that long[21]. Second, we now have two China-related stories on ITN, yet no mention of the ongoing 2010 China floods (~3,000 killed). ~AH1(TCU) 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I am removing this for now, as a result of AstroHurricane's last comment. The story is interesting, but seems better suited for DYK than ITN; there is no broader international importance or interest. NW (Talk) 15:00, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Um, that wasn't exactly a request for removal, just an outline of some objections over the story. It's still interesting nevertheless, and the fact is that international media have given this attention, but mostly because it's a strange and interesting story. ~AH1(TCU) 15:42, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I agreed with your last comment and made my own judgment call. The fact that there is a slow news day in several countries around the world doesn't make this any more significant. NW (Talk) 15:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment Exactly I see no opposes but the story has been removed. NW this is clearly against a consensus to post. unless of course you think none of the others have any clue about what is worthy of ITN and what is not. as an aside the provided reference ( by AH1) does not say anything about any other traffic jams being of similar magnitude in China or elsewhere.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:52, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm neutral on this one but I certainly don't oppose the removal. The there's bigger news going on than the 'world's longest traffic jam'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Wow, I can't believe this has been removed! How stupid. For ONCE, Wikipedia had something INTERESTING on the in the news. Of course, NW couldn't live with that. An admin already decided to post this. What makes YOUR opinion more valuable than his? He made his own judgement call as well, you can't just take it down like that.Vancyon 05:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vancyon (talkcontribs)
Oppose as silly season fodder. We can't go posting every big traffic jam. Modest Genius talk 17:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment You say that we can't go posting every big traffic jam, yet I have never seen a big traffic jam reported on any news site in my life. I may have just coincidentally missed them, but this story seems sort of unique.Vancyon 05:55, 26 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vancyon (talkcontribs)
Exactly. Along those lines we can't go posting every big sports event, world catastrophe, or notable in Hollywood celebrity death. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 05:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. Extremely funny news. It also is extremely unique and it is a real news story, so I think we can post this in clear conscience. __meco (talk) 18:35, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Miss Universe 2010

Mexican contestant Jimena Navarrete wins Miss Universe 2010 pageant held in Las Vegas,Nevada. It is the biggest pageant in the world. I'm surprised it hasnt been nominated and posted already. Should be ITNR. Also would be great if we can find a free pic somewhere. Would be nice to have a pretty picture on main page for a change. -- Ashish-g55 18:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I think we usually post Miss Universe and Miss World. The winner's article needs expansion (and a nice free photo that we can put on MP), but then I'm fine with it. --Tone 19:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I had a quick look on Flickr and couldn't see anything free. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
The problem is that we'll soon need a new image, because it's unlikely we'll get anything useful for Somali fights or Chinese plane crash. The Chile mine is possible but I don't know if it is a good idea to use the bus with hostages on MP... --Tone 19:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
the article isnt bad actually. it has 6 refs... and the Miss universe 2010 article seems to be properly updated too. -- Ashish-g55 21:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
these things usually get on (dont know if its listed in the ritual ITN nominee rules, but it should be), so weak supportLihaas (talk) 00:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC));
Oppose Regardless of conventions or ITN/R, wikipedia can and should do better. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
To explain my POV: we shouldn't blindly take cues from the media and effectively promote a commercial for-profit event based on the objectification of women. Not at all consistent with the objectives of an encyclopaedia. --Mkativerata (talk) 09:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose any and all beauty pageants being put on ITN. No real significance in any of them. Courcelles 00:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
that is quite literally POV. its a truly international event watched by 100s of millions of people (i dont even need to prove that) all over the world. Every country works pretty hard to pick delegates and sends them to this particular event. I dont understand how not putting this on makes wikipedia any better. only makes it biased against beauty pageants for some reason. -- Ashish-g55 01:03, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Trust me, that was a heavily moderated form of my POV on the subject. And it never claimed to be anything else. Now let's look at some facts. 83 countries showed up; well less than half. 100s of millions of viewers? In the host US, around 5 million watched; a a couple million less than sitcom reruns. Given the time of day, Europe and Africa would have been asleep, and Asia in the mid-morning. Do you have anything that backs up that number, because that's on the level of World Cup/UEFA Champions League Final/Olympic Ceremonies numbers. (And, yes, on a philosophical level I oppose giving these archaic things the high-value publicity of a listing on the front page of a top-10 website, but even objectively I don't see the case for significance you state.) Courcelles 03:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I'll add that Miss Universe 2010 can't even decide what tense it should be written in, and has less than 100 words of real prose. The winner's article is less than 1,000 characters of prose. No matter what the event is, we have zero postable articles at the moment. Courcelles 03:51, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Anyone who doesn't think there's room for POV in consensus-building processes is very much mistaken. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:00, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support this is a major widely watched international event. without getting into the merits of women wanting to look pretty we should not let our personal POV diminish the notability of this event. would support putting it on ITNR--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - The key issue is the picture. Can one be found in Commons, or uploadable to Commons? Jusdafax 03:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support iff we can get a picture a) because she's very pretty and b) because we're in dire need of a new image. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 05:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment Well it is a bit silly, but it probably isn't any worse than modern Eurovision with joke entries, but is it a cultural icon??? Well at least compared to Idol etc and other reality shows, the producers don't try and incite the public and stir things up. YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 09:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support given required image, as per precedent. ~AH1(TCU) 14:33, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support as per precedent. As far as the above objections are concerned, I can't see how this is worse than posting the winner of a boxing match in which the winner has violently beaten his opponent into submission. And we post boxing match results from time to time.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Just did a quick search and there are a few free pics on flickr. Licensing seems ok to me. can use any of those (the one in pink). -- Ashish-g55 15:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Those are licensed CC-BY-NC; even assuming they're not what the Commons-folk call "Flickrwashed", the license is incompatible; we can't use anything with a noncommercial license. Courcelles 16:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
wait what. we cant use a fair use image on main page but i was pretty sure CC-BY-NC is ok. -- Ashish-g55 16:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Nope, CC-BY-NC is no different than fully copyrighted for our purposes; Commons won't host it, and you can't use it in an article without a Fair-use Rationale. Courcelles 16:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
It's a stupid rule that I've been arguing against for years, but Courcelles is right. Quite why we can't have fair-use on the Main Page, provided there was a good rationale and relevant text, I never understood. Seems to come down to 'Jimbo doesn't like it'. The same applies to NC images anywhere on WP, which seems to get the priorities wrong (thinking WP should be a repository of free content rather than an encyclopaedia). Modest Genius talk 17:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The non non-free images on the MP is a very good rule imo. They're there largely for decoration an don't really enhance the reader's understanding, so it's not what I'd call "fair use". However, the rule against non-commercial use licenses is an utterly stupid rule imo. Anyway, if they're not Flickrwashed, someone could contact the owner and ask them nicely if they'd alter the license. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:24, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oct 6, 09's TFP was under GFDL which clearly stated it was not under public domain and any commercial terms must be "negotiated". A GFDL with a share-alike restriction is same as saying its CC-BY-NC. I see no difference for wikipedia purposes. I brought this issue up then and was shut down by saying a "liberal enough copy left was allowed". These made up rules make no sense to me. -- Ashish-g55 18:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more. CC-BY-SA and CC-BY-NC are pretty much the same thing, the former is just pretending to be more liberal. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:24, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I can even understand difference between CC-BY-SA and NC. but how can a GFDL with SA restriction be allowed on main page and not this. A free license with SA means it is non-commercial. please correct me if im wrong here. -- Ashish-g55 18:47, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
That's not quite true. It's possible to sell SA material, by for example printing it or burning it on a CD. Yes you have to share alike, but that just means someone else can copy the content and put it in their own book/CD/whatever; it doesn't stop you making money on the sale of the goods (though it does restrict the profit margin you can charge before someone bothers to undercut you). Those sorts of usage would NOT be allowed with an NC licence. But I agree, it's hardly a huge difference. Modest Genius talk 18:55, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Moot point anyway, they are in fact Flickrwashed, just not the traditional way. The link at the bottom goes to [22], which states; roughly translated, "Photographs taken in Guadalajara by photographer Guillermo Flores for a women's clothing catalogue for the You Too brand. The models are Gladys and Ximena Navarrete." So You Too owns the copyright, not the photographer. Courcelles 23:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak support. Personally I oppose these sorts of contest, and think they're a bloody stupid waste of brain cells. But it meets the ITN criteria, and has undoubted international appeal. I wish these things didn't exist, but it's encyclopaedic and 'I don't like it' isn't a good reason to oppose. Modest Genius talk 17:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment Why is it absolutely essential to get an image? If there's so much trouble getting a free image, can't we just post this as text and keep image for another news item? SPat talk 02:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Agree picture would be nice (preferably in a bikini). but it is not essential for posting and we should not delay just for that reason.--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - Beauty pageants do not constitute world news. We can do better than this. Regarding the picture comments above, this is not a locker room. Please be respectful. Kaldari (talk) 21:35, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Checking again looks very US-centric and made for US TV ratings, rather than a genuine competition eg Eurovision (although that can be farcical for different reasons, it is an international global icon). The hosts are always from the US or US-based industry (eg Mexicans and Puerto Ricans) the music is always American, and all the judges were American as well, this year, and are always at least half the judges. The thing is run by two American businesses; I wonder if this is just an elaborate plug, eg in Australia the TV companies that do the F1 and horseracing coverage spend a lot of time mingling in the celeb culture areas; what they actually do is go down there and talk exclusively to channel sponsors and actors/presenters from their channel who have been hauled there as part of the "scene" but are actually there to plug the other cooking/drama shows etc on the channel. YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Meh. We added Six Nations and that's only followed in two countries and marginally followed in two others. Maybe we'd post the Miss World, because the Brits organize it. Heck also Miss International the Japanese guy has been hosting that thing for decades already. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 08:12, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I'm against this for the personal reason that I think beauty pageants are a lot of hot air. They are by any standards tabloid, so let's drop this one. __meco (talk) 18:38, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Henan Airlines Flight 8387

A plane crashed with 91 passengers in China - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

  • According to the BBC it doesn't seem like anyway has died at this point. Either way the article is just one line at this point. ~DC Let's Vent 17:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
The article is more than one line now, though still distinctly stubbish. Shouldn't be too hard to write some more, though, plenty of sources. I've added a bit, but am going AFK in short order. Also, right now, there seems to be just below 50 survivors, but I haven't seen anything on deaths. C628 (talk) 17:58, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
There are no deaths reported yet. If so - maximum 40 people may have died (+-hospitalized), so I don't know if it's enough for an ITN news. Kubek15 write/sign 18:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
40+ dead in a plane crash is a lot. The article needs some work first, though. --Tone 19:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
support if it were to be a good article. certainly warrants a palce with the casualty count.(Lihaas (talk) 00:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC));
Support I've expanded it a bunch, though I don't have time to do any more, I think it's in good enough condition to go up. C628 (talk) 00:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support the article is in a fit state to go up. The BBC is saying 42 dead, which implies many survivors; this seems like a reasonably important air accident to be posted. Physchim62 (talk) 00:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per above--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Posting Courcelles 03:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Two technical issues. First, we should say "Northeast China", not "Northeast People's Republic of China". That's like saying "Southeast United States of America". It is awkward, and it is redundant. No one will dispute this due to political neutrality as I am certain no one across the strait will think that "Northeast China" points to somewhere in Taiwan. Second, as we did with every other air crash, we should mention the airline and the flight number, not just the location in which it occurred. Colipon+(Talk) 23:24, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Muna hotel attack

2 days of attacks in the Somalia capital at TFG barracks and a hotel housing government officials kill almost 90 and wound almost 100. (the numbers are little wishy-washy, but this is not ordinary Somali fighting, especially after Al Shabaab declaration of war against the internationally recognised government and following the WC final attacks in Kampala last month. The war against AMISON also goes on...(Lihaas (talk) 09:29, 24 August 2010 (UTC));

  • Support came here to nominate it myself. It's the lead story on the websites of the BBC and MSNBC at the moment. ~DC Let's Vent 09:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
The article could use a copyedit and an expansion, but that shouldn't take too much to fix. (I'd do it myself but it's nearly 6am where I am). ~DC Let's Vent 09:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Whenever you have the time, and some more source would be nice, since its breaking surely more willfollow.Lihaas (talk) 09:29, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Several MPs killed. I think the attack and the general Islamist offensive will have big implications for Somalia. Offliner (talk) 09:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support significant attack--Wikireader41 (talk) 10:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. The article was subjected to some changes, however. --DAI (Δ) 12:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
--DAI (Δ) 12:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - ITN item, undoubtedly. Jusdafax 12:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, major incident, especially because of the location, under tighter security than most of the city. BTW, I think there should be a comma after "hotel" in the blurb. C628 (talk) 12:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. However, some remarks. The article is a bit short in regard with what could still be written about the incident, there is an inconsistency between the number of casualties in the text and in the infobox and PMs could be mentioned in the blurb. --Tone 13:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

"Somali Al-Shabaab militants storm a hotel killing dozens, including parlamentarians, amid heavy fighting in Mogadishu."--DAI (Δ) 13:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Ok, posting. --Tone 14:02, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Agni Air Flight 101

14 fatalities in Nepal - [23] Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 06:44, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose sounds like a small plane, if its not enough in Alaska its not enough in Nepal where safety standards are lower. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:08, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Now that we have a much worse plane crash above... --Tone 19:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
doesnt mean 2 cant go up if they were up to scrath..(Lihaas (talk) 10:51, 25 August 2010 (UTC));
Well, this one has a big AfD notice at the top, so I don't think it would be a particularly good idea to post it at the moment... C628 (talk) 13:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

2010 Canada forest fires

Not as large as the ones in Bolivia but still fairly large. The smoke is really spreading a lot. 272,000 hectares of land burnt as of Monday 23 August, 2010. That is 1050.197 square miles. Mr. R00t Talk 01:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not anywhere on the front page of nationalpost.com or globeandmail.com. I think we should wait until this becomes big news in Canada, at least. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
And also what is its precedence? the biggest ever in Canada? State of emergency? Or just annual firefights that the usa (CA) and Aus. seem to have. in other words strong oppose(Lihaas (talk) 02:29, 24 August 2010 (UTC));
The fires were on the main pages a few days ago when the smoke first reached as far away as Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Oppose because these aren't the worst fires ever; the fires were much worse the last two years. --PlasmaTwa2 04:44, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The article focuses only on the fires in Quebec that started in May, yet there are fires in British Columbia and Alberta that are much more recent, for example the Melldrum Creek Fire. A few people were killed in BC, yet the article does not mention either this nor the number of hectares burnt. The 2003 Okanagan Mountain Park Fire seem to be more significant, though I'd have to improve the article to determine the significance of this one. ~AH1(TCU) 14:37, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

August 23


Anne Frank tree

The Anne Frank tree in Amsterdam fell over in heavy wind. [24][25] -- SEWilco (talk) 14:58, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

pretty interesting but probably more suitable for DYK -- Ashish-g55 15:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Yup, not suitable for ITN, I think, because there won't be any serious implications. It's more like local news. We wouldn't report if a tree named after a famous Chinese fell down in Ürümqi. Offliner (talk) 15:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
well its not just a tree named after someone. Its part of a Anne Frank Diary, its pretty famous. but ya still not for ITN though -- Ashish-g55 15:37, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose, a tree fell over.  f o x  15:38, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose, a very old tree fell over in the wind and died. non notable death of a notable tree ;-)--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Opppose. Just imagine what the peanut horse-chestnut gallery would say if this were rooted onto ITN. ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

2010 Manila hostage crisis

15 people dead, not confirmed. I'd create the article when it's over. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 12:43, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Support when there is a clear picture of the events (and the article). --Tone 13:00, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Note: The hostage-taker is dead, and two hostages are confirmed dead. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
3 deaths is not enough for ITN I believe. I will support only if more deaths are confirmed. Offliner (talk) 13:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Four were dead on arrival, and one is critical. I'd be creating the article unless someone objects. I don't want to undergo AFD drama. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:25, 23 August 2010 (UTC) Someone else created an article. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Note: Local media said 4 died. Other website have at most 7 deaths. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:50, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
support fairly unusual event getting a lot of attention. i dont think death count really matters in this case. How many times do you have a bus taken hostage for a day -- Ashish-g55 15:18, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose not enough casualties to be on ITN. if it was a shootout in an American mall likely nobody would have even nominated.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
    At least 8 deaths have been confirmed. Also see my comment below. --Deryck C. 15:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Made top headline in BBC and CNN despite that the event occurs on the opposite end of the planet in Manila and concerns Hong Kong tourists only. --Deryck C. 15:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Leaning toward oppose, I guess. Now there are 8 casualties, but I remember that a shooting incident (again, a laid-off worker who went nuts) in Orlando had about the same number of deaths, but it didn't go to ITN. The article was even deleted later (it was called something like 2009 Orlando shooting). So perhaps we should decline this one unless the indicent is going to have some important implications? Perhaps more experienced users will know what to do. Offliner (talk) 15:58, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. Passes the three-continent rule, and significant incident of international significance, especially to the Philippines and China. Also, what happened to not using astericks for support/oppose !votes? ~AH1(TCU) 16:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Hopefully the final casualties toll: 8 died and 10 were injured. The last item on ITN has seven people died and 14 injured. I'd assume it's easier to kill many with a bomb than w/ an M16 rifle. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:07, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
this is a hostage situation and not some nut job shooting people randomly. so cant really compare to those events. death count is still fairly high and IMO it makes it more notable that its not any higher. -- Ashish-g55 16:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
But the Aksu bombing is different since it was connected to the general ethnic violence in Xinjiang. This shooting seems to be the work of a single individual and unconnected to any wider issue. Offliner (talk) 16:11, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I dunno why should an event be connected to a wider issue in order to be added here. Is this another of ITN's hidden criteria? Otherwise that'll disqualify many potential blurbs. The HK government has issued a black travel ban to the country, essentially treating the entire country as a war zone. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, all of the current ITN items are connected to a wider issue. Except perhaps the 800m world record. Offliner (talk) 16:19, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
So? If anything this was like some psycho holding a bus hostage at the National Mall in Washington, or at Tianamen Square. The guy did choose a good location to do something crazy. Suggested blurb:
I probably wouldn't support it even it happened on Red Square or Times Square, unless it was terrorism. Too few wider implications. Offliner (talk) 16:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose it's a sad story, but we rejected a similar one in Connecticut a few weeks ago. ~DC Let's Vent 17:00, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Curiously, ITN had the Espoo, Finland shooting in late 2009. Dunno if that was also part of some wider conspiracy. (See the rather short discussion) –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Apparently, it was I who posted that one, it looked we had quite a good consensus back then. I still think this story is ITN-worthy. So far, the arguments are down to:
  • against: Other incidents of the same magnitude did not make it to ITN,
  • for: Tourists attacked, many casualties, international response, happened in a relatively peaceful area.

Your choice. --Tone 18:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Support it is pretty rare that tourists die in circumstances like this. Manilla isn't exactly a warzone either. Top on Guardian too. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak support Article is in good shape. SpencerT♦C 18:32, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support it hitted the headlines in many mainstream media.--Stevenliuyi (talk) 19:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
    • Support. It's not everyday when news from the Philippines is the top story on the AP wire in the U.S., an indication of worldwide interest. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Copiapó mining accident

In August 5, 33 miners got trapped in a Chilean mine. The rescue efforts have been persistent until today, when the first contact was achieved. Is this noteworthy for ITN? Will write an article on it soon. See also Wikinews article. Diego Grez what's up? 00:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Is there already an article on the mining accident when it happened (should be somewhere, was probs nominated too). At any rate, they said some 4 months to get them out. so oppose for now, itll be more than a minor miracle if they survive and ITN-worth at that.(Lihaas (talk) 00:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC));
More up-to-date source. It seems they've just been found alive. I would assume that if they've found them, they have some way of getting food and water to them, so they'll probably be alive when they're dug out, even if it will take 4 months. I support a blurb on them being found alive if a decent article emerges. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
good luck, tried helping out a bit with organising it. Play around with it, its coming along..Lihaas (talk) 00:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support since contact has been made after all this time and they are all currently alive. That sounds significant enough even if they all don't escape alive. --candlewicke 01:32, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support I have a feeling this is a going to be a big story especially since it may take 120 days for the miners to get out. --Mattwj2002 (talk) 02:41, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support it is very newsworthy that these miners are alive till now. whether they are pulled out alive eventually is of secondary importance.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Dramatic story. Jusdafax 02:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Conditional oppose Current article needs expansion and improvement. SpencerT♦C 03:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure why that's a reason to oppose. The article's under development. It's not ready yet, but it's coming along quite nicely. Anyway, it needs a little more expansion, filling out and some aesthetic tweaks and it could be ready. I'll give it a copy edit, as well. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
It's not really an oppose. However, important information such as "what caused the collapse?" is still missing, or where is the collapse?. Nonetheless, consensus suggests post now, and I think that based on consensus here alone, the article could go up. SpencerT♦C 18:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support when the article's done (which looks to be soon).  f o x  15:40, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Looks quite well at the moment. What should the blurb say? --Tone 16:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per above reasons. And the article seems ready now. ~DC Let's Vent 17:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:53, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

For a blurb, maybe:

  • 33 miners are confirmed to be still alive following a collapse in a mine in Copiapó, Chile, after three weeks missing.
...Or something like that.  f o x  19:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
You can't start a blurb with a numeral per MOS:NUM, but other than that, the blurb seems decent. I'm still not entirely happy with the article, though, much as I hate to be the spanner in the works. The background section is unsourced and needs some expansion to put the event in context and there's very little detail about things like cause of the collapse etc. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I've updated the article with sources/more content in the background section and the reason the miners are trapped. I can't find anything on why the roof of the mine collapsed. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Good effort. Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:35, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Should this be placed at the top since they're still in the mine, but the hostage situation is over? ~DC Let's Vent 00:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the chronology is correct: the story is "found alive" for the miners and "killed" for the hostages, and the events happened in that order. Physchim62 (talk) 00:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

August 22


2010 Tri Nations series

As per WP:ITNSPORTS, I propose we post the result - the competition is not over, there are still three games to be played, but the New Zealand team has won and received the cup as they have scored too many points to be beaten regardless of the result.

  • The All Blacks win the 2010 Tri Nations Series 29-22 in a final minute try against the Springboks. Matty (talk) 12:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
    Not quite sure about that as the blurb - it makes it sound like the ABs and the Springboks were both in "the final". I'll have a ponder... TFOWR 18:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per WP:ITNR and because the French thing is never going to get posted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
ITNR so presumably it's a support. I just wonder whether we should wait until the end of the competition. --Tone 19:11, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. They'll still play the remaining games, but if the All Blacks have won mathematically, then it's time to post. Physchim62 (talk) 22:20, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • OK, how about an update? 2010 Tri Nations Series contains very little prose, but could be brought up to scratch. I guess the next best option would be New Zealand national rugby union team, but we need an update somewhere. Since this is ITN/R, it can go up as soon as it's been updated. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:34, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Since NZ clinched it on the 21st it needs to be posted soon, considering it's older than four of the items currently on ITN. ~DC Let's Vent 17:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
    • Well if it gets too late, I suppose we can resort to plan B and post it at the end of the tournament, but if it ain't updated, it ain't goin' on ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
      • We might as well do it at the conclusion of the tournament then, i'll update it in the meantime. Matty (talk) 08:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

800m world record

David Rudisha has broken the 800m world record with a time of 1:41.09. Although this is only 0.02 seconds faster than the previous record, that record had stood for 13 years. WP:ITNR lists world records which are 'by an unusually large margin, after a very long time period, or in a highly publicized event'. The article currently only has a single sentence update, but that should be easy to fix. BBC Modest Genius talk 15:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Natural support - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 16:19, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I'll also go with support, as 1) it took a long time to break the record and 2) we haven't had athletics on ITN for a while. --Tone 17:10, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Support ~DC Let's Vent 17:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Meh, neutral. Minor distance, barely broken, the women's record is nearly three decades old (the top runners don't contest this distance), at a fairly minor event. I'd be tempted to oppose, but athletics gets on so rarely I won't bother. Courcelles 17:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm a bit indifferent as well, but won't oppose it. The article is updated somewhat - I haven't gone any further on the record for fear of recentism. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:04, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
"In track" seems an odd way of phrasing it to me, though that could just be an ENGVAR thing. Also, it would be good to mention that he's a runner for those not familiar with athletics. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:48, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I'll go and post. A slight modification to avoid the word track. --Tone 18:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Hm, or is better to start Kenyan runner/athlete? --Tone 18:52, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I also wonder whether the blurb should mention the age of the old record - that's the reason it's significant and has been posted. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
"Kenyan runner David Lekuta Rudisha breaks a 13-year-old world record in the 800 metres at the ISTAF IAAF World Challenge meet in Berlin"

I like the last blurb the best. Mr. R00t Talk 19:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

That makes it a little long, but I like it too. I only added the "in track" because we usually do that for sports items, though I guess here it's less needed. ~DC Let's Vent 19:03, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Great, now it's much better. We could use the photo as well. --Tone 19:09, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Agree - the red hair is blinding my eyes. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:10, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
(ec w/DC) I quite like it, but then, I like redheads! ;) It's probably worth leaving it up there for a little while, since it hasn't been up long and we don't know when we'll have a suitable image to replace Rudisha. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:17, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Obvious support - The 800m is one of the most commonly ran distances, and a world record is a huge achievement. Of course it is only broke by fractions of a second, these are the fastest men in the history of the planet. Agree that picture is needed. 98.247.218.30 (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
File:Rudisha at Bislett Games 2010-06-04.jpg isn't that great of a photo, but I wouldn't mind seeing it up there. There may be additional free ones out there that we haven't found yet. ~DC Let's Vent 19:15, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd say put that one up until we can find a better one. The current picture is worse imo. Mr. R00t Talk 19:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
The permission for that image says "please credit Photo: Chell Hill in the immediate vicinity of the image." I read that as saying it should be something like a caption to the image on the page on which it is displayed. Which is problematic for the main page. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
It's CC-BY-SA, so like almost all images attribution on the file description page is fine. Note there's no caption on the article either. Modest Genius talk 19:21, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
But this appears to be an condition imposed by the image's creator: CC-BY-SA doesn't prevent an additional condition being imposed. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I Should've checked commons first. Found File:David Rudisha KBC Night of Athletics 2010.jpg ~DC Let's Vent 19:19, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I think we should leave Julia on for a couple of hours yet, because there are no nominations that would go higher up the template than the Aussie elections or Rudisha, which means he could be up there for a while if I change it now. I'll crop it and stick an {{m-cropped}} on it in a minute, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Cropped and re-uplaoded as File:David Rudisha KBC Night of Athletics 2010 ITN.jpg. I'll stick on ITN in a few hours. Feel free to tweak in the meantime if you want- it's not protected yet. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:48, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
That's fine. Someone should probably swap the pic in around 2200 UTC or so (that would give Gillard 24 hours up there). ~DC Let's Vent 19:57, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Seems reasonable. If I forget and nobody beats me to it, I'll be fiddling with the Main Page at 0000 UTC anyway, so I'll do it then. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

August 21


Australian election

We should know the results within the next six hours. Either:

I recommend we post once the loser concedes defeat. There is a slim prospect of (a) a hung parliament; or (b) a result not being known tonight, in which case we'll just have to play it by ear. We have free pictures of Gillard and Abbott. ITN junkies will recall Gillard made an ITN appearance less than 2 months ago. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Support - it should be done, no question. Jusdafax 08:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - WP standard Crnorizec (talk) 09:00, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
No need to support, this is on WP:ITNR. I suggest we say 'Party X, led by Person Y, wins the Australian federal election' rather than the phrasing above, simply because this is consistent with the other election results we post, and avoids terms like 'returned' and 'set to' which are rather informal (particularly since 'returned' has a rather specific electoral meaning, which isn't as used here). Modest Genius talk 14:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree, fine wording. Jusdafax 15:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

It's the best we can do at the moment. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:20, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Let us just wait until we know who got the most votes. Before that, we even can't have a proper update to the article. --Tone 18:45, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
"Most votes" is irrelevant to the outcome - it's the last thing we should base a posting on (and in any event, we won't know for days if not weeks). The very fact of the chaos is, in my view, postable. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:57, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Possibly. But then I'd suggest something like "X wins most votes but is unable to form a government" or "X and Y both win Z percents". We've had those cases before. In any case, we need an update to the article first. Later, when the government is formed, we can also post who becomes the PM. --Tone 19:04, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
The "House of Representatives/Results" section of the article holds the update. I'm loathe to put %ges or seats in the article or the blurb as neither will be finalised for weeks. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:07, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I added specificish total seats, there were a few sources reporting them, the BBC, apparently from ABC, and The Australian. Thought it seemed reasonable, but revert if you want. C628 (talk) 20:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
  • No question that this belongs on ITN Support. Mr. R00t Talk 19:09, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
    • Are there any remaining objections to putting this up now? One of the world's oldest democracies is about to wake up to having no government and we don't have it on the main page? --Mkativerata (talk) 20:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
      • Yes, I simply don't find the update sufficient. Sorry. At least we need some percentages to indicate how the votes went. We should not hurry, we've waited in other cases as well. --Tone 20:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Posting. Australian federal election, 2010#Results is sufficiently updated imo. Exact percentages aren't the story here and it was a similar weird fascination with formalities that meant the UK election didn't go up when it should have. I would also point to the phrase on WP:ITN which says

    a highly significant event [...] may have a sub-par update associated with it, but be posted anyway with the assumption that other editors will soon join in and improve the article

    . If that's not good enough, then, based on the consensus and WP:ITNR, I invoke WP:IAR. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
It's fine, now the article says more clearly who and how and why the hung parliament. No further objections from my side. (of course, we should update the blurb when we know more) --Tone 21:39, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Could this new image be added instead? Thanks. Connormah 04:33, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I just previewed this on T:ITN and it doesn't come up very well - she's looking over the camera so you see too much of her neck. But the current one is pretty ordinary as well. Any views? --Mkativerata (talk) 06:04, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Could try cropping the bottom ~50px off that. Modest Genius talk 13:28, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Let me have a look. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:52, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Done. That was quite easy to make a decent square crop of. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:57, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Bolivian forest fires

25,000 fires are destroying Bolivia. I think that's fairly noteworthy. Article is: 2010 Bolivia forest fires. Mr. R00t Talk 03:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Support. That's a lot. --candlewicke 04:29, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - That is a lot. And the bar is red. Jusdafax 04:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Possible blurb: Bolivia declares a state of emergency as forest fires rage across move than 1,500,000 hectares (3,700,000 acres). What's protocol for {{convert}} in ITN? I'm not sure I like the "1,500,000 hectares" - I'd prefer "1.5m ha" but (a) I'm probably wrong, and (b) my template-fu is weak. TFOWR 07:39, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Good blurb. The acres to ha coding I believe, and if this is what you are asking for, would be 3,700,000 acres (1,500,000 ha). Jusdafax 08:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! Not quite: I'm happy with using whatever unit the source uses (hectares, I think - it was the BBC) - my concern is over the number of digits: I'd prefer "1.5m hectares (3.7m acres)" to "1,500,000 hectares (3,700,000 acres)" as the latter form implies a degree of precision that doesn't exist, and makes the blurb longer. If it's not possible (I took a look at {{convert}} and like most templates it's deeply mysterious to me...) or it's undesirable then so be it. It's certainly not a deal-breaker for me. TFOWR 08:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm good with whatever you think best, and I agree with your reasoning for wanting to shorten the blurb, etc. I also confess to being mystified by much of the template coding; what I typed in I only just learned when an editor worked on an article I had submitted to DYK. I'd like to see something go up asap due to concerns about the unrelenting redness in the bar at the top. This looks like the best candidate to post in the next hour or two, hopefully.Jusdafax 09:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Posting. No clear opinion which of the units should go first but probably the ha. Feel free to change. --Tone 09:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Could someone do the honours and award Mr. R00t? I'm going offline now, for - probably - the rest of today. TFOWR 10:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
  Done -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:00, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Belated support, just in case any more was needed (only two above). Modest Genius talk 14:16, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. Fires are also tearing across Portugal, the Sahel, central Brazil, and British Columbia. Do we have articles on any of those? I generally support this posting, but the other fires should have articles as well, and since Central Brazil is the Amazon we would merge that information with the current article if the Brazil one is created. ~AH1(TCU) 01:17, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Bushehr Power Plant

Iran's first nuclear power plant, the Bushehr Nuclear Power Plant, will be launched today at 9:00 a.m. IRDT (UTC+04:30) after it is loaded with nuclear fuel provided by Russia. (Wikinews) (CNN) (The Wall Street Journal) (Press TV) (Time) (BBC News) (Voice of America)Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 02:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Support - this has been noted as the possible flashpoint for a regional war in the Middle East. Jusdafax 04:39, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Big event for several reasons. We should post this on ITN. __meco (talk) 06:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Support when the article is adequately updated accordingly. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Support when the article is updated. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Support, this is notable for several reasons and the launch is covered widely in international press. Article has been updated. Offliner (talk) 11:05, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Posted. --Tone 11:24, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. There's a small typo: Busher => Bushehr. Offliner (talk) 11:28, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Fixed now. TFOWR 11:31, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think ITN credits were handed out for this item? —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 00:21, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think they are mandatory. :) ~AH1(TCU) 01:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
If you ever notice an update for which credit and article talk page templates weren't handed out, please go ahead and do so. That includes to yourself if necessary, there's no stigma in doing so. Modest Genius talk 01:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Indeed. I used to do the credits quite often even before I was an admin and templated myself more than once! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:31, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Can I get credit because I did a relatively large expansion? I'm not 100% sure. Offliner (talk) 16:37, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

August 20


Middle East Peace talks

Seems that talks over one of the most important political issues in the world today are set to resume. I would definitely say this is noteworthy, but I'm wondering whether we should wait until September when they actually meet or post now as they have both accepted Clinton's invitation to sit around a table. Thoughts? --Daviessimo (talk) 16:54, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Wait until the talks start on 2 Sept. Modest Genius talk 00:35, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now... "set to resume" doesn't mean that they will resume and nothing has happened. --candlewicke 02:05, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. This is interesting. And where on Wikipedia can I read about the new peace process?... Dragons flight (talk) 02:08, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose About as logical as posting Israelis and Palestinians agree to make peace. As with anything related to this conflict, I'll believe it when I see it happen. -- tariqabjotu 02:10, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Wait until they start until you post. Also, which article? Mr. R00t Talk 02:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per tariqabjotu. Diego Grez what's up? 02:50, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Tariq. Iff it happens, I'll support, but not just the announcement. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Those talks are wishful thinking, no substance, and they are set to fail, even if they ever take off. Crnorizec (talk) 08:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Anniversary of Al Megrahi release

An international incident which is obviously still causing a fuss on this rather awkward 'anniversary'. ReutersTIMEWall Street Journal MickMacNee (talk) 14:43, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support one of the most tragic frauds in recent years. people with prostate cancer typically live for years.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:56, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll say oppose, as not much happened today regarding this story, apart from the fact that it marks one year since he was released. --Tone 14:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The anniversary of a noteworthy event does not inherit its notability. Nothing much has happened, except some hand-wringing. Modest Genius talk 15:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, there's nothing newsworthy or notable about an event that happened a year ago and if this is just an anniversary, OTD would more appropriate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Agree with HJ Mitchell, Modest Genius and Tone. Suitable for OTD. Nothing has happened. --candlewicke 02:07, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Anniversaries are not very important. Maybe On This Date. Mr. R00t Talk 02:14, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose News are not notable a year later. Diego Grez what's up? 02:55, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll say it again, why do people at ITN assume others are simply thick? I did not simply nominate this because it is an anniversary, I nominated it because, if anyone actually bothered to look, this particular anniversary has generated more coverage and more events, for what I thought I had described as the obvious reasons. I'm fine with rejection ont he basis those developments weren't significant enough, but I do not accept the implication that I have mistaken ITN for OTD. I didn't, and wouldn't. MickMacNee (talk) 17:07, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
No-one suggested that anyone else was thick. Nothing much happened. The only 'event' that the media reported was it being a year later, and all parties restating their positions. Modest Genius talk 01:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
(ec w/MG) I don't think anybody is suggesting that you got ITN and OTD muddled up, merely that OTD may have been (I assume it's too late now) a better place for this item. Likewise, I don't think anybody was assuming that you're thick. It has to be said, your nomination was far better than many on this page. I think (I can't speak for others) the reason for the large opposition is simply because this man has lived 9 months longer than he was expected to, but there isn't any event that makes his longevity notable. Ironically, if he'd died, there'd probably be more support. It may be the biggest story in the papers, but it is a slow news week, even for silly season. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:03, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Roma deportations from France

France begins the deportation of some 700 Roma Gypsies to Romania and Bulgaria. Developing story that seems to be causing ruckus because all three countries are members of the European Union, and there are E.U. laws enforcing freedom of movement for E.U. citizens and forbidding expulsion based on ethnicity. Perhaps someone with more background in E.U. policies can better assess this. (The New York Times) (Time)Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 06:19, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose (for now) seems relatively routine (how many Mexicans get deported each year?). However, if an editor better explains the repercussions of the story, I'll reconsider. ~DC Let's Vent 06:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
  • The U.S. and Mexico aren't in a treaty that guarantees free movement for both nations's citizens. The French Republic is in such an agreement with Romania and Bulgaria. As E.U. citizens, I'm thinking these people have a treaty right to reside in any E.U. state... Courcelles 06:28, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
According to the NY Times article, over 10,000 were deported last year. That's why I feel it's routine. ~DC Let's Vent 06:42, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
French law says that if citizens of a recent EU member state are to stay for more than three months, they must either have a work permit or prove their ability to maintain themselves with their own assets. The controversy is the policy of pressurised mass "voluntary repatriation" with a resettlement allowance, rather than application of the law through the courts. There are issues about police methods, political agendas, and treatment of travellers who are French citizens. A chronic condition that has suddenly gained some wider publicity rather than an acutely current situation, but there seems to be no wikipedia article dealing with the theme. But if it is to be posted, can we avoid Roma Gypsy, which is tautologous and 50% perjorative: black niggers would be comparable, and I'm sure most editors and readers would not be comfortable with that. Kevin McE (talk) 10:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Support: It is an act of racism, and with no precedent, because the French are only acting against the Roma. There was a nice article somewhere, that Sarkozy should also get 300 Euro and bus ride to Hungary, being a second-generation of Hungarian-Jewish stateless immigrant. Crnorizec (talk) 08:59, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Support because of the attention is still receiving even now after several days. Described as "one of the most controversial initiatives in French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s populist “security” agenda", with Vatican condemnation. And "one member of his own UMP party has compared President Sarkozy's crackdown on illegal Roma camps to “rafles”, the roundups of Jews in Nazi-occupied France". And praise from Italy. Aljazeera, CNN, Xinhua, lots of coverage. --candlewicke 02:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Okay, this is starting to get a bit of support, so what would the article be for an update? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:26, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I'll start compiling an update for Romani people by country#France. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 08:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Updated. Feel free to make improvements. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Leaning toward support. A well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:27, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Anyone? --BorgQueen (talk) 20:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
France deports 700 Romani people to Romania
Its not easy as it'd be good to explain that Romania is a new EU member so its allowed but not 100% OK as they may not get treated well there and you're supposed to have freedom of movement in the EU. - I guess that is far too long though :p. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
That kind of understates the supposed significance of the events imo. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:04, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Fair point. What about France controversially deports 700 Romani people to Romania, a fellow EU member. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Getting there, but adding that on the end just seems like a swipe at France. Is it part of an ongoing process? In which case, we could construct a blurb around "begins the deportation of..." or something similar. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the word deports is problematic: deportation is the result of a legal process, and one of the key issues in this episode is that this is by-passing the courts by a mixture of (resettlement allowance) carrot and (destruction of camps) stick. Does repatriates avoid this? Kevin McE (talk) 22:46, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd be inclined to avoid that word as well as it has two connotations for me: first, that of flag-draped coffins being carried off C17s and the second of "sending them back where they came from", neither of which is particularly helpful. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
What about repatriation? —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 02:35, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
As to HJ's second connotation, is that not precisely what is happening? They are Romanian citizens, being sent back there, because French authorities have deemed that they do not belong in France. Kevin McE (talk) 07:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
What about "France expels..."? 95.26.29.199 (talk) 06:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Expels makes them sound like a disease.  f o x  09:32, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose' of anything that sounds like "Romani people to Romania". The term Romani does not have absolutely any relationship with the term Romanian, and this sort of blurb almost guarantees that people will make this false connection/stereotype again. Nergaal (talk) 10:39, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, you can say to Bulgaria and Romania to make it less confusing for the uneducated readers... But otherwise not much can be done here. --Tone 12:03, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
While there seems to be a rough consensus that this is a postable story, we apparently can't agree on the blurb. But anyway, the date of this item is August 19, when it started. The last item in the ITN box is from that date and when Copiapó mining accident gets posted - presumably today - this item will be too old. So, either find a good blurb very soon of forget about it... --Tone 12:03, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
France controversially expels 700 Roma people to Romania and Bulgaria, bot of whom are members of the European Union. Similar to the above one but I think it clarifies a little. Mr. R00t Talk 17:38, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

August 19


Baghdad bombings

Not breaking today, but per the attack 2 days ago, the blurb bneeds to be altered to reflect the fact that 2 bombings happened. one at the recruiting centre and one in a Shia neighbourhood (deaths can stills ay 60+ and wounded is 144)(Lihaas (talk) 04:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC));

I've posted this at WP:ERRORS. Please post updates there in the future. ~AH1(TCU) 01:29, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
It was originally brought up at WP:ERRORS but kicked back here. The two bombings were largely unrelated as I understand it. I'm not entirely sure why the article has been changed to include the second, but that's a different matter. Unless someone can provide evidence that the two were directly related, the blurb stays as it is because the consensus at the time it was originally posted was to post the first because of the frequency of such events and the unusually high death toll from that bombing. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Expansion of the Universe

Now here's something encyclopaedic: a study has found that the Universe is likely to continue to expand forever.[28][29] Normally I'd update before nominating but I don't really have much of a clue where we should put this, and how: Universe?--Mkativerata (talk) 04:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. "Likely", "will probably", etc. Perhaps if they announce that they know it will. --candlewicke 04:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Any physicists care to weigh in on the significance of this? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:29, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose now based on the comments of those more knowledgeable on the subject. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:01, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
weak oppose there are countless studies coming out all the time (many contradicted a few months/years later), no need to give this rubbish credence like Press TV seems to do. That said per HJ Mitchell if the community feels its noteworthy then i would support their view too. Maybe put a banner on "attention from experts in the subject" on that page.(Lihaas (talk) 04:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC));
Some more info including the link to NASA's press release: The Daily Telegraph. It seems the study has been published in Science. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 05:56, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Probably oppose, the Science paper devises a new method to measure dark energy while the conclusion about the expansion is something created by the media and is not written in the paper. --Tone 08:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. That the universe will expand forever has been the prevailing wisdom since shortly after the discovery of dark energy more than a decade ago. The refinements offered by this study are neither radical nor particularly newsworthy. Dragons flight (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I learned about conservation of momentum when I was about 12: the relevant study was In the News in July 1687 Kevin McE (talk) 10:43, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose (as an astronomer myself). There's been a new measurement of dark energy. This is good, and interesting, but it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. The media has picked this up because it's silly season. Whilst I'm glad to see more science stories in the news, it's not significant enough for ITN. To repeat - this is a new measurement of something we already knew about. Modest Genius talk 15:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Doesn't seem to be anything new. Doc Quintana (talk) 04:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Death of Edwin Morgan

  • BBC - "widely recognised as one of the foremost Scottish poets of the 20th Century", wrote for six decades, was writing at death, wrote in many styles, wrote "Poem for the Opening of the Scottish Parliament" in 1999, several awards, etc. Further coverage.
  • The Guardian - "poetry's true son", "not only our national poet – widely read, studied at school, much loved by fellow authors as well as readers – but our international poet", translated from other languages, "a star of the international concrete poetry movement of the 1960s". Nobel Laureate Seamus Heaney "[paid] formal homage" to him in 2005. Awards, honorary degrees, an OBE, etc.
  • The Daily Telegraph - "a superb translator from several European languages" - French, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Hungarian - Yevtushenko, Pasternak, Mayakovsky, Montale, Quasimodo, Lorca, Brecht. Weidenfeld Prize for Translation winner in 2001. His 1952 translation of Beowulf "became a standard translation in America", the Scottish Poetry Library bought and kept his "extensive archive" a few years ago.

Does he match Salinger/Voznesensky yet? ;) --candlewicke 03:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Support. He is also Scotland's first national poet. If we post the photograph of him, the copyright tag on it might need replacing as it doesn't match what the file summary says. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 03:13, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose His death has had no effect on anything, despite his life having been notable (I use my own death criteria for ITN. We post too many deaths).--Mkativerata (talk) 03:15, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I also use my own death criteria (I think many contributors here do), and I think we don't post enough deaths. That doesn't make me think that the posting of this gentleman's demise on ITN would especially benefit the coverage of poetry on on Wikipedia or its understanding among our readers. Physchim62 (talk) 03:32, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. non notable death of somewhat notable person--Wikireader41 (talk) 04:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. He was obviously a person of some significance, but not global significance and his death doesn't seem to be out of the blue, not that that makes it any easier for his family. If someone has received UK state honours, how high up the orders of chivalry they got is a reasonable yardstick for measuring their significance in their field and an OBE is not that significant. Someone who has made such a huge contribution to their field that their death would be on ITN would normally be knighted. For example, the last three people with UK honours I can think of who were on ITN: Sir James Black OM, Sir Charles Mackerras (A KB, which doesn't normally have postnoms), Sir Nick Parker KCB. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Even Ted Kennedy was KBE. (I had to meet my quota on Kennedy references). ~DC Let's Vent 05:48, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose per above/globalise(Lihaas (talk) 05:06, 20 August 2010 (UTC));
Support - notable, honored, and significant. Jusdafax 05:57, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - currently ninth item on the BBC Scotland news page. Many proposals of death announcements here recently have drawn heavily on obituary columns: by their very nature, these will speak up the importance of their subject matter, as not to do so is essentially equivalent to the contributor sticking a post-it to the copy when handed to the editor saying "probably not worth printing". The comments made about the recently deceased by other luminaries in their field are routine rather than remarkable: even politicians at permanant loggerheads get suddenly polite about their deceased adversaries. Kevin McE (talk) 11:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Pro-Zionist Wikipedia editing courses.

Not sure yet what article this would fall under. Of global interest, not just Wikipedians. Note: an IP tried to remove the news item, which I have restored. Jusdafax 19:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose We should avoid self-referential ITN postings unless we absolutely have to (eg wikipedia gets blocked by the US government would be ITN-worthy). And I don't think this is significant enough. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:41, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Though we might want to add something about not adding pro-Zionist comments to Wikipedia in WP:COI. Mr. R00t Talk 19:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, though encourage referral to The Signpost for coverage there. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 20:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, internal self-referential news. Exactly what the Signpost is for. Modest Genius talk 21:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment - fair enough, and good advice. Was just looking at how that works. Interesting. Jusdafax 21:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment - and will someone be policing these animals from tag-team reverts as always happens the minute a breaking story comes out?(Lihaas (talk) 22:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC));
Question to Lihaas- What exactly do you mean by that? Mr. R00t Talk 23:57, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
This isn't AfD, we don't need to state the purpose of our posts in bold. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:32, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
along the lines as the the same intent you (1234r00t) said above..Lihaas (talk) 22:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose They're just looking for attention, and it shouldn't be given to them. Doc Quintana (talk) 04:25, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

2010 Aksu bombing

  • 2010 Aksu bombing
Support. we can link to 2010 Aksu bombing, which has 7 refs. This is the first major incident since the July 2009 Ürümqi riots. Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 15:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - We badly need to move forward with something. Jusdafax 15:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Support upon de-stubbing of article. ~AH1(TCU) 17:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The article could use some work, but it's probably big enough to be considered start class and we've posted similar sized new articles before. That and the fact that we're now 42 hours without an update means that I'm going to post this. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:49, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose - seems fairly minor to me, the article isn't great, and I doubt this would go up if the timer wasn't so overdue (damn you silly season). Modest Genius talk 21:56, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak support - I agree with MG that it is minor, but why the heck not? :) Diego Grez what's up? 01:41, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Can we please change this to "Northwestern China" and cut the "People's Republic of China"? It is like saying, floods occured in Southeast United States of America. It is awkward, and not used anywhere except Wikipedia. You can link "China" to "People's Republic of China". I give you a guarantee that no one from other side of the strait will come and complain about the neutrality of this mere geographical description. Colipon+(Talk) 05:20, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Two thoughts. First: Can someone explain the reason we need to use the full name of China. Is there really anyone who would think China means Taiwan? And second, we shouldn't be more lenient in our standards just because the timer is red. ~DC Let's Vent 05:51, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I've piped the link to just "China" per the above suggestions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:03, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's house

The fictional detective Sherlock Holmes, created by Doyle, has never gone out of style for over a century and is known worldwide as a cultural icon. Doyle commissioned the house's construction and lived in Undershaw for a decade, writing The Hound of the Baskervilles and other Holmes stories there. Plans are underway to convert Undershaw into flats (aka apartments). Article regarding Undershaw was written by yours truly in the past few hours. Jusdafax 09:33, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. It has encyclopedic merit, but just because Conan Doyle himself has withstood the stand of time, the house is of no global significance as may be seen as trivial. Perhaps more suited for DYK. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:44, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
At first glance, it feels more like a DYK than an ITN, but... I love the occasional quirky ITN story. Oh, why not, Support. Courcelles 09:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Arsonal--Wikireader41 (talk) 11:04, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Arsonal, but should absolutely be nominated for DYK. --Smashvilletalk 13:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
'Weak oppose. I like it, but it's a bit trivial for ITN and I dread to think what the peanut gallery would say if it went up! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per HJ Mitchell. Mr. R00t Talk 21:17, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, just not significant enough. Certainly DYK material though. Modest Genius talk 21:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just about to support (interesting, different, makes a change from the usual bombs and disasters, international relevance in an underrepresented topic) when I realised it is a plan, much like that mosque nomination recently. How would it be phrased in the ITN section if it hasn't even happened? I would consider supporting if nominated when it has been saved or knocked to the ground. But DYK would be good. :-) --candlewicke 00:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

  Done as a DYK nomination, and I thank those supporting it as such for the kindly suggestions. Jusdafax 20:13, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Fields Medal

By "today", the IP means 19 August. This item will probably get renominated when the section for that day is ready in 2.5 hours. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 21:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Note this is a WP:ITNR event, so if when a Fields medal is awarded (they don't have to give one out) it should be posted once the relevant article is updated. Let's hope we have decent articles for the laureates/topics... Edit: looks like they've never failed to award one, so I guess it's going to happen. Modest Genius talk 21:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong support. Announcement is due 13:00 IST (07:30 UTC), we should add the winners immediately. Something like "At the 2010 International Congress of Mathematicians in Hyderabad, X, Y, and Z are awarded the Fields Medal." Ngô should be a safe bet for one of the medals. —bender235 (talk) 00:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
We add it if/when the article has been updated, but after that happens (barring an influx of opposers), it will go up as soon as possible (ie as soon as an admin is around). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:24, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
In 2006, two of the four winners didn't even have articles at the time they won. Hopefully, we'll do better this time around, but we do have to at least wait long enough that some updated content exists. Dragons flight (talk) 00:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think we need to say where it was announced, and would be better off with something like
and basing the final clause on the official citation (like we do with Nobel prizes). Modest Genius talk 01:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Unlike Nobel prizes, Fields Medals don't generally have a unified theme. Rather each of the two to four winners may be cited for entirely different accomplishments. Dragons flight (talk) 02:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Well we'll need to see what they are, but if possible we could include each of them. Length and the existence/state of the articles in question could be an issue though. Modest Genius talk 02:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

How about:

And which of these articles are substantially updated? -- tariqabjotu 08:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, forgot about that. For the moment just an update in the list of awardees should be sufficient right? (all the awardees pages have laready been updated)SPat talk 08:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think so; we just have five poorly updated articles. -- tariqabjotu 09:15, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
If the highlight article will be Fields medal, then it is already as updated as it would get. Bolding all the laureates would result in too much bold text in the ITN box, I believe. Anyway, I wonder what substantial update can be made for each of the articles, apart from "X has received the Fields medal for his contribution on the field Y". Ok, Obama's Nobel peace prize has an article on its own but that's another story. I think this is ready to post, more or less. Willing to do so if you agree. --Tone 13:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, no, I don't agree. This has been said before, but there are no stories that absolutely must be on the Main Page. If there's nothing else that can be updated in this article, well, that's a darn shame -- it shouldn't be added to ITN. The section is there to highlight updated articles on Wikipedia; if it doesn't fulfill that requirement, it doesn't belong. That being said, the Fields Medal article could, for example, include some of what was added to the individuals' articles -- namely, what each person was given the medal for. -- tariqabjotu 14:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Alternatively, just one of the winner's articles could be substantially updated... there's a lot of choice here. -- tariqabjotu 14:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Indeed. I agree with Tariq, none of the articles is currently sufficient for ITN and the medal article is almost devoid of prose. I don't particularly care where the update goes, but it can't go up without one. All we really need is one or two good-sized paragraphs detailing who, what, how, where and why. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:53, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm really trying to find some material to update one of the articles, but there's no reaction I can find. Beyond the citations, a few blogs explaining the maths, and the same half dozen sentences from the news wires, I can't find anything that could be used to bulk out an update (quotes, analysis, discussion etc). Modest Genius talk 22:09, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
OK, I'm having a go with Stanislav Smirnov, since he's at least reacted to the award. Is anyone able to read French? I could do with some help incorporating info from this press release. Modest Genius talk 22:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I have substantially rewritten Stanislav Smirnov, including adding a paragraph (with 5 references) on his Fields Medal win. It's not great, but contains pretty much all the info I could find on the topic. Modest Genius talk 23:49, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Posted Yeah, that's good; thanks, Modest Genius. -- tariqabjotu 00:19, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Instead of Smirnov, Fields Medal should be scripted bold. —bender235 (talk) 00:56, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
The bold is reserved for articles that have been (substantially) updated with prose. Fields Medal has not be updated with prose. -- tariqabjotu 01:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Which is a shame, because, as it is, it seems to be giving undue prominence to one of the winners over the other two, but the medal article is in a real state. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:28, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I second HJ Mitchell. Bold should be reserved for what is actually "news". And that's not Smirnov, but the Field Medals awarding. —bender235 (talk) 10:15, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
The ordering of the name is incorrect if based on family name. Ngo is the Vietnamese family name, so his name should come after Lindenstrauss. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 01:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Fixed, thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:36, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Ok, now this turned out well. At least one article with one paragraph of update. --Tone 07:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

August 18

ITN candidates for August 18

U.S. Combat troops leave Iraq two weeks early

Per live reports just now on MSNBC. No article online yet as the story is breaking literally just now. Seems the troops were removed early as a security precaution. Stand by for updates. Jusdafax 22:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

  • Update 1 - I actually, just 30 minutes ago, watched MSNBC show the last troops leaving. I have no doubt a WP:RS will be reporting on line any second, if it has not happened already. The article should be Post-invasion Iraq, 2003–present and I have already updated the lede there. Some additional material in the body of the article will be helpful. Jusdafax 01:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong Support Basically the end of the war. Doc Quintana (talk) 01:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. We need an update on a WP article somewhere. Currently top story on BBC News. Physchim62 (talk) 01:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Tentative support, but wait a bit first. Difficult to get firm facts until the news outlets wake up tomorrow morning, and we need to know for sure that the all combat troops have gone before posting. Iraq War has an update, but needs more references. There's also a Withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq article, but that seems to be out of date. Modest Genius talk 01:50, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, is the story that they've withdrawn, that it was earlier than expected, or both? Also, is this just American troops or is it a coalition thing? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The U.S. troops are the only major foreign force left in Iraq. But it seems strange to talk of a "withdrawal" when 50,000 U.S. military personnel will remain until the end of 2011... Physchim62 (talk) 01:57, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
It is both, but with the accent on that they have withdrawn. I'll come up with a proposed blurb in the next 60 minutes as I monitor television and online sources. As for a mention of a "coalition" I have seen none mentioned, I believe this is U.S. tropps only. Psych, the story we are being told, is that the remaining U.S. troops are for training and advisory purposes. Jusdafax 02:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)


Someone at the BBC has woken up, but they're now saying 'the Pentagon has not confirmed that the move marks an early end to combat operations' and 'Some of the brigade remained behind to complete logistical and administrative tasks but would leave the country by air later in the day' [30]. Plus 50,000 seems like an awful lot of 'advisers' to leave behind. But I still think that once all the 'combat' troops are out it's a significant step, and probably the closest to a definitive end we're ever going to get. Modest Genius talk 02:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong Support this is on CNN now. came her to nominate.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:08, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Okay the, it appears this is official and getting some support. How about a blurb and an update? Preferably before I fall asleep on my keyboard. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:32, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Update 2: I have added a new section to the article: 'Final departure of U.S. combat troops', with the salient facts to date. No doubt it can, and will be added to. Blurb upcoming, don't nod off just yet... Jusdafax 02:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • In an event President Obama declared a "milestone", the final U.S. combat troops withdrew ahead of schedule from Iraq, leaving 50,000 U.S. soldiers who will continue to train and advise the Iraqi Armed Forces. (if this is too long, detach the first part w/Obama's quote and go from after the comma.)
I could probably get a more concise version of that up, but I've a feeling that, if I did it now, we'd get a pile on of after the fact opposers. I'll make it my first priority to review this when I log in in the morning if it hasn't already been posted, but it's 4am and I'm sleep deprived! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:06, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I will be be afk about 30 minutes, then back on for several hours and available to work here as needed. I see this as time-sensitive, but that's just me. Thanks HJ. Jusdafax 03:16, 19 August 2010 (UTC) Additional note: I see it has been 27 hours since the last update, and that bar is mighty red. ;). Jusdafax 03:21, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. from the announcement a few weeks ago, the 'withdrawal' was reducing troop numbers from 70,000 to 50,000. That's not a significant event. And the idea that in the last few years the troops have been on 'combat duties' any differently than the ones remaining, is pretty misleading. They've been bunkered in bases hoping not to get attacked. Still, no doubt this will sail thru anyway. Gobama. MickMacNee (talk) 02:52, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Out of interest, Mick, would you oppose this if it were any country other than the United States? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:56, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, if it were done this way. This simply isn't a withdrawal in any meaningful sense of the word, and as said, to describe this as 'the end of the war', or even the 'end of combat operations' is innaccurate at best, spin at worst. The UK left half the armed forces in Germnay when they 'withdrew' after the end of the Cold War - that's another example of a phoney withdrawal. Maybe I could support if you gave an accurate blurb - 20% of US troops leave Iraq, having been engaged in no offensive combat operations for years. MickMacNee (talk) 03:26, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The "combat mission ... is scheduled to end on 31 August". "The Pentagon has not confirmed that the move by the 40,000 personnel from Stryker Brigade marks an early end to combat operations". Therefore not quite the end, just another step. Also, 56,000 troops staying? And spokesman says its "far from over". Everything here beyond the headline and the first sentence seems to contradict the crucial claim. In fact some those who left are "to leave the country by air later in the day". So... 40,000 are leaving... but not quite because they are leaving 56,000 troops behind... so more are in Iraq after now than are leaving now... and all of those 40,000 haven't even left yet because some are staying until later? I think that's it but it sounds so tangled the only conclusion I can come to is that this isn't the end. --candlewicke 03:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Candlewicke sums up perfectly my thoughts on this item. Seems more like a propaganda end than a real ending. Courcelles 04:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Support According to the BBC [31] "Some 50,000 US troops will remain until the end of 2011 to advise Iraqi forces and protect US interests". Now for me, this signifies a clear end to combat operations in the country and to my mind that is a big deal given this was a war and not a peacekeeping mission. The blurb should focus on the fact that all combat troops (from all involved nations) have now left the country. Something along the lines of:
Support it was on the BBC radio this morning, and seems worthy of posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:43, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment: I share many of the concern of the opposers, but the timer is currently red. I'd consider posting this if the blurb made clear that this was limited to US combat troops. Per HJ Mitchell, I'd consider Jusdafax's blurb, above, without the Obama "milestone" part. I'll hold off for an hour or so, in case there are strong objections, or a smarter admin than what I iz pops up... TFOWR 07:57, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The notability comes from the fact that this is an end to all combat operations by coalition forces and not just those of the US. Otherwise we should have been posting this every time a major country withdrew. Given that the US are the last remaining foreign force in the country it is makes this by default the end of all coalition combat action. What about:
--Daviessimo (talk) 08:32, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Every article I'm reading says U.S. troops, no mention of a 'coalition'. Without the Obama intro, that leaves:
  • The final U.S. combat troops withdraw ahead of schedule from Iraq, leaving 50,000 U.S. soldiers who will continue to train and advise the Iraqi Armed Forces. Jusdafax 08:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
That is because all of the other countries have already left (clearly shown in the coalition article). That previous leavers were Australia and the UK last year. If the focus is just on the U.S. troops leaving then I would agree with others that as 50,000 are remaining what is the big deal? I mean why is the fact that US combat troops leaving anymore notable than when UK troops left? If the focus is on the fact that these actions mean an end to all combat operations in Iraq by foreign troops, then that is a big deal. The two things are completely different --Daviessimo (talk) 08:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
OK, how about one or other of:
Thoughts? (At this stage I'm not comfortable about posting, by the way). TFOWR 09:09, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with either, actually. Your call, thanks. Jusdafax 09:22, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm leaning toward an oppose because of what seems like sensationalization by the media as this blog from The New York Times points out. Official end of combat operations remains scheduled for 31 August. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I lean support, since while it's not the end of the war, it's the end of active US participation in the war--from now on, our troops are limited to an advisory role, it's really Iraq's problem now. It's gone from a war conducted by the US with help from Iraq to a war conducted by Iraq with help from the US, and I think the distinction is important enough for ITN. (BTW, I think a link to [[Iraq War wouldn't come amiss, maybe as a piped link with "combat operations" in the second blurb TFOWR suggested. C628 (talk) 14:23, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I would actually support a listing on August 31, given proper updates, as it is on that date that Operation Iraqi Freedom, a combat mission, officially becomes Operation New Dawn (which oddly, currently redirects to the ongoing Afghan War), a training mission. That sounds more ITN significant than hazy definitions of what the size, role and status of a combat force has to be for a withdrawal of them to be considered significant, common sense wise, rather than media hype/govt. spin wise, especially since prior changes, like handing over the green zone, have been way more significant to the Iraq War than this change. MickMacNee (talk) 14:44, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
That would seem to make more sense than posting it now actually. Unfortunately, that leaves us over 40 hours without an update, which I haven;t seen in a while. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't particularly like that idea, it's completely symbolic, now that there aren't any more combat troops present, that's pretty what the US's mission is right now, since all the remaining troops can do is train and support Iraqi troops if requested. There isn't any difference between what's going on now and what will happen on August 31. C628 (talk) 18:53, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Proof? If there is any legal basis to this switchover in troop roles, then it is more likely that it occurs when the mission name changes, and not just when a few soldiers get on a plane. MickMacNee (talk) 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Anyone who thinks this isn't significant doesn't understand how post-combat operations work. 50,000 support troops does sound like a lot to the average layman—there are countries whose entire militaries aren't even that large—but it's a very small number in terms of U.S. operations. We have more than 50,000 troops in Germany, but I think it's safe to say World War II is over. We have about 30,000 troops in South Korea and 35,000 in Japan, but we are not at war there, either. The U.S. always leaves garrisons after a war; that doesn't mean the war isn't over. Furthermore, I would oppose waiting until August 31; we don't have to place an artificial hold on actual news just so we can reach some change-over in military jargon. On Wikipedia, the tail does not wag the dog. Kafziel Complaint Department 18:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
    I really wonder why people feel the need to treat everyone like they're idiots at ITN. If you want to actually educate the layman, then lay out what 'combat operations' these leaving troops have been involved in these last few months, or even years, as opposed to what the remaining garrison will be doing, which is primarily sitting in protected bases. And as above, if you want to educate the layman, then please explain where you get the idea that the events of Aug 31 are/will be irrelevant, and are simply a change in 'jargon'. To me, pretending that the US forces have just transitioned from 'combat troops' to 'training troops' is also just pointless jargon. MickMacNee (talk) 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't think Kafziel was trying to treat people like idiots, he was just making comparisons. Quite interesting ones, I thought. There's no harm in giving people food for thought, the consensus is still not clear. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
HJ is right - I'm certainly not trying to treat you or anyone else like an idiot, Mick. Not understanding something doesn't make you an idiot, as long as you're willing to talk about it. I know very little about, say, physics, so I would never get mad at someone for trying to give me some perspective.
As for your question, troops do lots of things. Some gather intelligence. Some train Iraqi troops. Some work in warehouses, distributing everything from pound cakes to gas masks. Some fix transmissions, some are security guards, some work in hospitals, some cook dinner, some draw maps, some process the mountains of paperwork generated by the others. Some spend most of their time cleaning bathrooms, filling sandbags, changing lightbulbs, mopping floors, painting signs, and bringing officers their dinner. Combat troops have combat missions, while all these other pogues do not. Just as there's a world of difference between a SWAT team sniper and the guy who maintains the evidence locker back at the station, there's a world of difference between combat troops and support troops.
And, yes, the names of military operations are, by definition, jargon. They are arbitrarily made up by some guy in the basement of the Pentagon who thinks they sound cool, and their meaning is impossible to decipher without prior knowledge. If you had no context, you could never guess exactly what Operation Enduring Freedom was. All these "operations" are just military code words that have entered the public consciousness through increased media exposure. We are not beholden to them. The military makes lots of plans, and they don't always reflect reality. If combat troops are out, combat troops are out, and we don't have to wait for General Petraeus to give it the thumbs-up. If anything, at least in terms of what the military is doing, generals and government officials are less reliable sources than journalists on the ground. I'm as skeptical as the next guy (moreso, probably) and we never know what tomorrow will bring, but for now, this is extremely significant. Kafziel Complaint Department 22:28, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, you still didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, and you still didn't really answer my points. MickMacNee (talk) 03:07, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't know how I could clarify it further. I guess we'll have to live with that. Kafziel Complaint Department 07:47, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - as nominator, in case there is any doubt. Jusdafax 19:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment - I realize these are !votes and not votes, but by my count it is 8 in favor and 4 against. Just sayin'. Jusdafax 19:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose 30% are still there, it and as this shows it isn't a very big change. Prodego talk 19:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
See my comment, above. Kafziel Complaint Department 19:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
BBC... "A further 6,000 support troops will be in Iraq until the end of the month, when US combat operations will end.", Wouldn't it be a lot better to post when they announce that US combat operations have indeed ended rather than changes in military numbers. if 50000 is a lot or less or whatever are all opinions and dont have much basis. If at the end of month they ship in more military then this was merely a troop change. From what i can tell the last brigade has started moving and there is no actual official statement on what that really means. Which will come at the end of the month. hence oppose for now. -- Ashish-g55 20:25, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

U.N. warns more Pakistan relief badly needed

While the main story link will be to 2010 Pakistan floods, this story is continuing to unfold in press headlines around the world. A U.N. official says that, amazingly, "The Indus River is [still] at 40 times its normal volume." The blurb, however would not be on the floods themselves but the U.N.'s urgent warnings regarding the huge human disaster in progress, with millions in need of help and so far, not getting it. Respectfully, I challenge potential opposers to produce a a more newsworthy story than this one for today. Jusdafax 20:42, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

No opinion on the nomination, but what would the blurb be if it were to go up? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Maybe it's time to just shut ITN down. Interest in it seems to have completely died, most if not all new nominations are hopeless stubs, or systematically biased, or have a hundred other flaws. Obvious candidates do not happen frequently enough, and with decent enough updates, to justify this huge section. And no matter what anyone does, this idea that the section is not simply a news ticker just will not die it seems. Just shut it down, implement a horizontally scrolling bar along the top of the Main Page for ongoing news, and think of something better to do with the rest of the space. Like giving proper recognition to DYK contributors. It's beyond belief that this is what? the fourth time this item is about to be bumped. It's a flood. A big flood, but just a flood. There isn't even a basic nomination here showing that the article has actually been updated. Has it? Who knows. Who cares. ITN was supposedly created for publicising 9/11 articles. Can you imagine if that ever happened again, how many times those items would get bumped for being an ongoing event? Jesus. Enough already. Let's tear this useless section down. MickMacNee (talk) 21:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I strongly disagree with your thoughts and must also suggest your tone is hardly conducive to collaborative editing on this project. The challenge before us is to improve this remarkable resource and draw more contributors. Suggestions we throw in the towel are unconstructive here. And I did in fact check the article, and was quite impressed by the work done there, complete with a country-by-country table noting donations to date. Jusdafax 21:42, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment, I'd like to echo Jusdafax'es sentiments and note this is not the first time this user has been so unconstructive. Doc Quintana (talk) 03:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah. Noted. Jusdafax 04:05, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Are you outing yourself as the imposter who keeps stalking me, who is clearly pissed at some prior disptue I've had with them and now creates imposter accounts to make edits like the one you just linked to? Anything to confess Doc? Are you harbouring the wrong kind of feelings for me? MickMacNee (talk) 20:08, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I will also inform you on your talk page as well. Your behavior continues to be inappropriate for Wikipedia. I'll remove my other comment replying to you as I didn't see this reply first.Doc Quintana (talk) 22:41, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose its already been posted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:27, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Still not expressing an opinion, but an update would need prose, not just pretty tables and the blurb would need to be in the present tense. As it is, apart from being in the past tense, it sounds a bit like an appeal for donations. We'd need something alog the lines of "The UN announces it needs more money". HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:57, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Tense corrected, which was easy. I also updated the article's lede. I daresay more could be updated in the body of the article. Jusdafax 22:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah, now I've clicked through instead of over-depending on popups, I see the article is tagged with a rather unsightly {{copyedit}} tag. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - not a major new development in a story we've already posted more than once. Humanitarian disaster requires aid?!? Who'd have thought it. Modest Genius talk 21:55, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. After the 2010 Gansu mudslide, the total death toll from the 2010 China floods exceeded that of the Pakistan floods, and the 305 million affected in China was a far cry from Pakistan's 20 million. An important update for the Gansu disaster was needed on August 15 for the National Day of Mourning declared in the country, but that still was not posted. This story has already been bumped more than once, although it will likely continue for a few more months. ~AH1(TCU) 23:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong Oppose this is old news. most of the people affected were starving anyway floods or no floods. Also this crisis is likely to continue for months if not years. can't keep on putting it on ITN every few days.--Wikireader41 (talk) 00:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Really old news at this point. One bump was more than enough. Courcelles 04:14, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Rod Blagojevich verdict

Oppose If posting Kagan was controversial, this would be courageous. It barely has national - let alone international - implications. I'd only support to get that stunning hair on the main page.--Mkativerata (talk) 05:09, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose per global notability. btw- its not even nominated in the box above(Lihaas (talk) 06:01, 18 August 2010 (UTC));
I assume you mean the current events template. It's listed under August 17 there, since that's when the verdict was read. ~DC Let's Vent 06:57, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose only convicted on a relatively minor charge. If he's convicted of conspiring to sell Obama's old Senate seat, then we'll talk. ~DC Let's Vent 06:56, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Illinois has a long history of political corruption. this really is business as usual in springfield. Yawn. WSJ--Wikireader41 (talk) 07:53, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. domestic US news. MickMacNee (talk) 13:39, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I might have supported but the overwhelming opposition, particularly from editors better-informed on the matter than I am, convinces me otherwise. Per DC, though, I could support a conviction for trying to sell Obama's Senate seat. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose on technical grounds, as we already ran the story of him being impeached (is that the correct term?), and as there is likely to be a retrial on the more "juicy" allegations. I would certainly reconsider a nomination for a conviction on trying to sell Obama's Senate seat, but let's see what comes of it. Physchim62 (talk) 23:51, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose It is just, not so important. Diego Grez what's up? 02:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

August 17

ITN candidates for August 17

French national football team

  • Article is updated. Sanctions resulting from an sporting scandal that gripped france and was covered extensively around the world.BBCGuardian MickMacNee (talk) 23:01, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Support seems interesting - assuming the article is good enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:02, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to see evidence this has hit America, but a support anyway. Different, certainly.  f o x  23:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose The impact is misleading because Nicolas Anelka has borne just about all of the "team" ban himself. Doesn't have international impact.--Mkativerata (talk) 23:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't have international impact? You mean, a national football team losing four players (just before the Qualifying for the European Championships gets underway next month) isn't international?  f o x  23:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Just a note. The update at Nicolas Anelka is not up to standard yet, so please don't bold it without checking first. I would have been neutral on this one, but HJ makes the point that we're in a short news season so I'll go for weak support. Physchim62 (talk) 00:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose I usually hate ex post facto opposes, but for this one I can't help it. I don't really see the significance of this one at all... really one athlete got a substantial suspension. Happens all the time, for all kinds of reasons. Not to mention the update is a single sentence; sorry, but this never should have been posted. Courcelles 01:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
    Feel free to give any remotely similar example, I know of none at all. The item pretty obviosuly wasn't just about some player getting suspended, just like the endless bumping of the horizon oil spill wasn't just about whatever bit of news had occured at the time. It is the conclusion of the whole saga, which has been a huge deal in France and World Football. MickMacNee (talk) 02:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
On the update, I disagree with you. It's fairly clearly been updated as the event has progressed, so the strike and its repercussions are well covered in the article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:33, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
    • removed due to lack of consensus. Second I also oppose. This has less impact that Abramovich or some other tycoon pumping in 500million and then the coach/board go crazy and buy a pile of leading players, or the reverse when a team goes broke. Anelka already retired anyway, and this kind of politics is common in common in developing countries's sports systems, eg South America, or in cricket, in Pakistan or India were the whole cricket board gets turfed out in a opaque boardroom coup with some help from underworld figures threatening officials or getting cabinet politicians to arrest them for corruption. Even in the England cricket team in 2008 there was a power struggle between the captain/coach resulting in both being sacked/forced to resign, and in football-type sports where all the players have to operate quickly in a synchronised way, it's the coach that makes the success/failure, much more than the players in such sports as baseball, cricket, or relay races. YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:26, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
      • 'Asian cricket is corrupt' so that means unprecedented events in international football are unimportant. Good luck with refereeing that trade off next time, this bizarre logic could be applied to any nomination about any subject. It's nonsense. MickMacNee (talk) 02:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose, one federation making a foolish example of one player for the most part, not that significant. Grandmasterka 01:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose as minor sporting news, of interest only to those who follow the sport. HJ, just because the timer is ticking doesn't mean we should post something which has no consensus. Better to go a while without an update than to keep adding and shortly removing items. Modest Genius talk 01:41, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
That's a few billion people tbf, and in international football, let alone French politics, this was not minor news at all. That's way more interested people than the population of the United States, so maybe Mwalcoff will be along to give his support now. MickMacNee (talk) 02:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't think that anyone can say this is minor sporting news given that this is direct fall out from a player strike during the biggest professional sporting competition in the world. That being said, it may be in the news, but I fail to see any encyclopaedic value. I've said it many times before, but just because something is big news doesn't mean it is ITN worthy. After the debacle regarding the Chinese economy (us blindly telling everyone that China now has the second biggest economy because it had beaten the GDP output of Japan over one quarter - something it has done at least twice before!) maybe its time to stop relying so heavily on what the media say and do and think for ourselves --Daviessimo (talk) 07:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Death of Francesco Cossiga

- Former President and Prime-minister of Italy dies at age 82. Notable enough? - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 15:37, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Possibly, but the article is in need of quite a bit of work- it's quite skimpy on the details of his career and it will need information on his death. I would be surprised if the article could be brought up to scratch quickly enough, but it's happened before. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I see this just got posted without consensus. This guy was only briefly PM of Italy and later served in the fairly powerless position of President. He's now died of old age and the death hasn't impacted anything. To add to that, the article is substandard, not even discussing his tenure as PM.--Mkativerata (talk) 04:22, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Mkativerata. I don't want to discourage article development, but I'm not convinced of the ITN-level significance if the article turned into a GA overnight. Courcelles 07:11, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak support, however the article is almost entirely unreferenced so it's rather moot. He may well have been a boring and non-confrontational president, and only a caretaker PM, but he was still head of state of a G8 country. Modest Genius talk 22:14, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose The article has several issues to be addressed, as Courcelles and Modest Genius point out. Diego Grez what's up? 01:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Baghdad bombing

Apparently there was one this morning (though there is no online source yet as BBC World is on breaking news) that killed over 41 recruits to the Army. (probably the number will go up) and over 100 wounded.(Lihaas (talk) 06:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC));

Support - As soon as an article goes up, of course. Jusdafax 06:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC) Update: per New York Times, thanks Arsonal, will add to your article now. Jusdafax 07:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC) Update 2: Added some more, I see Lihaas did the startup work on the article, thanks. Jusdafax 08:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. Article is at August 2010 Baghdad bombing. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 07:51, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Support significant attack--Wikireader41 (talk) 12:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Article is in reasonable shape, though, to be picky, it's an orphan. I also moved it to 17 August 2010 Baghdad bombing since it's not the first attack in Baghdad in August and is unlikely to be the last. I'll wait for some more comments, but if the consensus that's emerging holds, I'll post it soon. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. In the afternoon coverage of this, the war correspondent was relaying how it was not so long ago that they didn't even bother reporting bombings if the death toll was not over 50, so I'm struggling to see how/why this death toll is ITN worthy now. While they are apparently becoming less frequent, I think we are still in the period where a mass bombing in Iraq is really not ITN material. MickMacNee (talk) 13:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Definitely not enough victims to make the ITN quota. They should try to be more efficient. Crnorizec (talk) 14:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Notability does not exist. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 14:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Says the person who thinks an explosion at some hospital is notable. I've no opinion on this as an ITN item, but it's probably notable enough for an article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:18, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Death toll now at 60 with 125 others wounded.[32] This is undoubtedly deserving of going on the front page. Truthsort (talk) 15:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
support since death count is quite high. below 20-25 would deserve an oppose but 60 is pretty high. -- Ashish-g55 15:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
We appear to be reaching consensus to move forward. The article is adequate, for a brand new article. Suggested blurb below. Jusdafax 16:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Why "at least 50"? The article says 60 (the same number I just saw on the news) and it's sourced, so, aside from the usual uncertainty about casualty figures associated with this kind of thing, is there much reason to doubt that? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Clearly notable, need to make sure the same amount of deaths is mentioned in the blurb as in the article though. BritishWatcher (talk) 21:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The LA Times is reporting 51, and I see other numbers floating around, so like BW I want to get it right. My thing is to err on the side of caution and move the figure up (poor souls) as it gets clearer. I'd work further but have to be afk a couple hours. Will be back to help finish up (as needed, or if needed) soon. Thanks all! Jusdafax 22:21, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Support, I'd consider bombings with 40+ deaths worthy of mention, since smaller ones are so common, but attacks of this scale are still fairly unusual. BTW, I think the reason the LA Times is reporting a lower toll is because it hasn't been updated since 1:11 this morning, probably Pacific time. C628 (talk) 23:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Posted -- tariqabjotu 00:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

August 16

ITN candidates for August 16

Bucharest hospital explosion

An explosion at a maternity hospital in Romania's capital has killed three babies, while two pregnant women and eight newborn infants sustained burns and other injuries. YahooNews Reuters [33] - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 20:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's a shame, but I doubt the article will last long and I strongly oppose posting it on ITN. This is nowhere near our significance requirement. Modest Genius talk 20:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Sad, but no lasting significance. Eugen Simion 14, please stop creating more work for other editors with your single-sentence sub stubs that are almost invariably deleted via PROD or AfD. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:24, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Death toll 4 - (Press Association via Irish Independent) (Voice of Russia) (Sky News) (CNN) - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 06:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Coverage in news sources does not indicate lasting significance. The sources themselves are quite "stubby" without any chance of more detailed coverage. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 07:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Eugen Simion 14, you might consider contributing to Wikinews [34] if these kind of articles are your thing. They would be more appropriate over there. --Monotonehell 12:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

AIRES Flight 8250

- 1 killed, 114 injured in Colombia, after a Boeing crash in San Andreas. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 13:21, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

dont think enough happened here to be on ITN. I'm not even sure it deserves its own article right now. -- Ashish-g55 13:42, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose fortunately only one fatality. ~DC Let's Vent 16:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose despite the dramatic photo of the jet in 3 pieces... am also glad to see one one fatality. Amazing though. Jusdafax 18:32, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support do people have to die for this to become a news? The fact that the previous members have also emphasized is that it is "fortunate", "dramatic", and "amazing". Good enough for me, to make a GOOD NEWS. Crnorizec (talk) 22:24, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
conditional support per plane crashes on ITN. the fiselage split apart on crash.
Is there a precedence/rule for this. What is the criteria? Simply editor voting or ITN-rules, if not we need the latter to set some rules down.(Lihaas (talk) 22:28, 16 August 2010 (UTC));

Support per all of the above (I find the two opposes ironic as they are both followed by what I see as valid reasons to support). 119 injured (according to the article)? A developed article? A governor calling it a "miracle"? Several nationalities from at least three continents on board, hence international appeal, not very local, etc. Crnorizec has a good point. Must all ITNs be horrific? And where did such an idea come from? Low death tolls and a high amount of injuries have been posted before, e.g. this (2 bombings, 2 deaths - both deaths in 1 bombing - mainly about a large number of injuries). --candlewicke 00:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

well my oppose was when the article was 2 lines long. It has been expanded quite a bit since. But even then i dont know if posting plane crashes with 1 fatality is a good idea. More people die in regular car accidents. And i dont mean to be cruel but the 1 fatality was due to heart attack and not injuries. The injuries were not all necessarily severe either. I mean ya its a plane crash but there has been quite a few in past year. So i am still opposed to this. -- Ashish-g55 01:06, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
And, in my point of view, posting this after not posting the Otter crash last week is laughable. ~DC Let's Vent 01:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Well the events are not really comparable. One was the crash of a privately operated light aircraft whilst the other was the crash and hull loss of a narrow-bodied commercial aeroplane. Also, in that case the emphasis was placed on who had been killed and not the crash itself. That being said, there have been 148 previous hull loss accidents with the 737 and with only one death I fail to see how this is main page worthy. For me, a low number or no fatalities needs notability elsewhere (e.g. British Airways Flight 38 as first hull loss for 777 or US Airways Flight 1549 as successful water landing) and in this instance I can't see any. I mean planes get hit by lightning all the time... --Daviessimo (talk) 06:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
In my view the 'China becomes number two economy' is a much bigger global story than the plane crash. Put up both if that's consensus but to exclude China and put up plane crash isn't right. Jusdafax 02:19, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
BTW, how did the US Airways Flight 1549 make the news, with no casualties? Check the archive here Crnorizec (talk) 14:06, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Daviessimo just said above that it was because of a successful water landing which is rare. And all the passengers survived from what was surely going to be a major accident. That is definitely news worthy. Also it was first time that happened in recent history. I dont think it would be as big a deal if it happened again. -- Ashish-g55 14:16, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

China becomes world's 2nd largest economy

Support: Obviously !. Yug (talk) 10:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
In principle, support. However, I think we've had this announcement three times already in the last couple of months. --Tone 11:47, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support: I think this time its for real ;-)(NYT)--Wikireader41 (talk) 12:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment there isn't much of a prose update (unless I missed it while skimming the article) and I doubt much can be updated. So I'm not sure it's suitable to post because of that. ~DC Let's Vent 16:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. 2nd is not notable. MickMacNee (talk) 16:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. An obvious item. I'm not sure what Tone is alluding to though, so I might reconsider based on an understanding of that. __meco (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per Past Discussion. IIRC, when this item was first tentatively put forth through the Chinese media, the "general" consensus was to wait for posting until the claim was independently verified by the international press. It appears that now the story has been validated... Thoughts? Cwill151 (talk) 16:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Major news as a milestone. China continues to make strides as a world power, and this shows that. Number two economy behind the USA is notable. Good ITN item, in my view. DC's point should be dealt with, however. Jusdafax 18:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - as previously nominator for this story. While in general being #2 isn't notable, being #2 global economy is a pretty big deal. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Do we have any kind of an update? I suppose the PRC article would be the logical choice. If there is something, I'm willing to post this based on the consensus above. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:22, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - once we have decent prose in the Economy of the People's Republic of China article. A rare milestone like this is an easy support even if it comes as no surprise. Nirvana888 (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support in principle but there are some problems with the articles.Economy of the People's Republic of China is rightly tagged as being too big (at 161kb), while Economic history of the People's Republic of China is unsourced tracts of OR.--Mkativerata (talk) 19:35, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Bloody hell, that article's massive. I'd have concerns with putting that on the MP since it could take bloody ages to load for those on slow connections. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:40, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Post now? article has been updated —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.21.27 (talk) 21:03, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

It's only two sentences. ~DC Let's Vent 21:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose granted we now have confirmation, still dont think its that notable just because econ. data keeps coming and going (4 times a year for this) and it can fluctuate.(Lihaas (talk) 22:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC));
Support Japan's economy has been stunted for 20 years and China is at 11% pa, so even if they have a slowdown they still won't get overtaken. These aren't a group of similar economies growing at 1-3% that can overtake each other back and forth YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Please post now. Economy of the People's Republic of China has been updated sufficiently. There's not much to write on this story anyway. __meco (talk) 06:35, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Agree, please post. Jusdafax 06:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment: I don't mean to sound like a Wiki-lawyer, but in posting this, we should keep in line with WP:NC-TW, and use "People's Republic of China" instead of just "China". Night w (talk) 06:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I've had a read over some of the news articles and unless I'm being blind I can't see where China's data is coming from. Is it the same data they released a couple of weeks back, because if so surely we should be waiting until the IMF or World Bank verify what is being said --Daviessimo (talk) 07:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
It was on the BBC News channel last night. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I oppose because the data only relates to one quarter. For the second quarter of 2010, China surpassed Japan by nominal GDP, but for the first six months as a whole (i.e. first and second quarters combined) Japan is still ahead of China (as stated in the bllomberg article). Now, as List of countries by GDP (nominal) uses data amassed over four quarters and this information is verified by the IMF etc I think it is presumptuous to start saying China has overtaken Japan as the second biggest economy when it has only surpasses it for one quarter --Daviessimo (talk) 07:31, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
It appears that the ITN from 2009 also used World Bank data (see current references 32 and 33 in Economy of the People's Republic of China). —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 07:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
It's not the least bit presumptuous. As YellowMonkey points out, japan's economy has been stagnant for 20 years whereas China has a 10% increase per year. __meco (talk) 08:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Well it is, because you are essentially predicting the future based on past trends and it is not our place to do that. It is highly likely (in fact probably a certainty) that China will surpass Japan over four quarters of 2010, but if it is good enough for the IMF or World Bank to wait, then why not us. At the end of the day, the data for 2010 shows that even though China surpassed Japan in the second quarter of the year, over the first two quarters of 2010, Japan still had a higher GDP. Thus for us to say China is bigger because "Japan's economy is stagnant/China is growing rapidly" completely defeats the purpose of accurate statistical evaluation --Daviessimo (talk) 08:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
I believe we have a rough consensus to post this. Any suggestions for the blurb? (actually, I'd like to know which articles exactly to feature) --Tone 08:23, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
If you are going to post this I would make sure it is clear that China has only surpassed Japan for the second quarter of 2010 and not 2010 as a whole and avoid stating categorically that China has become the second biggest economy without independent verification --Daviessimo (talk) 08:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with either; was worried about length so I left Japan out, but would be happy with yours if it is not considered too long. Jusdafax 09:16, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Posted This item poses a myriad of problems. For example, the headline should, ideally, be in present tense. -- tariqabjotu 09:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

August 15

ITN candidates for August 15

2010 Gansu mudslide, again

  • Given it's way overdue for an update, I was thinking of bumping the mudslide one up, noting the day of mourning held today. Sort of a band-aid rather than an actual fix, but better than nothing, I suppose. Suggested blurb: "A day of mourning is held for the victims of the 2010 Gansu mudslide." C628 (talk) 23:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Support merging this information into the existing blurb. ~AH1(TCU) 01:59, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. There should be no bumping at ITN period. The list of things people think are significant enough to qualify for a bump is seemingly never ending. MickMacNee (talk) 16:45, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
*Shrug* I just proposed this because the golf thing was going nowhere at the time, it was something like 30+ hours without an update, and this was the best I could think of. Doesn't really matter anymore. C628 (talk) 17:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

2010 PGA Championship

Opppose - many sports starting/finishing their seasons are not added. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
If you took two seconds to look at the article, you'd realize how factually off your statement is. ~DC Let's Vent 16:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per WP:ITNR#Golf. However, the article will need a prose update. At the moment it's a list of participants and tables of results, with only the first day mentioned in any text. Modest Genius talk 16:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Support if WP:ITNT#Golf says it's the way to go, let's do it. Jusdafax 18:59, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Support with prose update. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 20:28, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
support when sports tournaments are dont the winner is customarily announced on ITN.(Lihaas (talk) 20:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC));
Comment: the timer's red, so sooner or later someone's going to start hassling mop people. This has support, so I'm inclined to promote it. Are there any issues with having two sports-related ITNs next to each other? TFOWR 21:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the article is postable in its current state: it has almost no prose whatsoever. So my support is in principle only. Normally I would do the work myself rather than sit in my armchair but I need to go to work. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough, and we edit conflicted as I was about to ask for a blurb (which is conspicuously missing, and makes life very difficult for the lazy admin. I can hang about and whine until someone sorts the article out - or we get support for something else (not sure what, though). TFOWR 21:10, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Blurb is at the top, just fill in Golfer X. The article hasn't been updated yet, but then again the tournament is still ongoing, with the title still up for grabs. So we need to a) wait for the tournament to finish b) get a results table and a prose update and c) fill in the name of Golfer X. Modest Genius talk 21:30, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone know when it's scheduled to end? C628 (talk) 23:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Too late for me - I'm logging off in a few minutes. Blurb at top noted, TFOWR's spectacles cleaned and polished. Prose update still needed... TFOWR 00:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Martin Kaymer won this one. (The New York Times) (MSNBC)Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 00:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Update seems sufficient, who wants to post? ~DC Let's Vent 07:18, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not so sure. The playoff prose is a massive unsourced tract of text, whereas the prose for some of the full rounds of the tournament is barely a sentence long.--Mkativerata (talk) 07:25, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I've just gone on a slightly pointy tagging frenzy - hopefully that'll encourage some improvements. If I get time I'll try and educate myself about this mysterious sport and fill in the gaps, but ideally someone(s) with clue would fill in the gaps. TFOWR 08:33, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Note to admins: An alternative method of posting the story is bolding the winning golfer's name rather than the tournament itself. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd actually prefer that: Martin Kaymer looks to be in quite good shape. OK, so the revised blurb would be:
Martin Kaymer wins the 2010 PGA Championship at Whistling Straits.
If there's consensus for that, I'll post it within a couple of hours (allowing time for you all to tell me what I'm doing wrong ;-) TFOWR 10:17, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the format I've seen previously is: In golf, Martin Kaymer of Germany wins the 2010 PGA Championship. We usually include the sport for people who are unfamiliar with tournament names. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 10:25, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
  I knew that, honest! ;-) That looks good. I may append "...at Whistling Straits" depending on balancing needs, but I don't think the course is as important as the sport. TFOWR 10:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Posting. --Tone 11:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Toy Story 3

The Independent on Sunday - "set to become the first animation to take $1bn at box offices globally after becoming the highest grossing animation ever". --candlewicke 01:09, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Support - Good international story, the worldwide box office is astonishing, timely, will look great on the main page with a photo. The article is in reasonably good shape as well. Jusdafax 01:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Calm down - Highest-grossing animation movie is not really that notable, considering that inflation is not taken into account. And it is now at $920mil, and since it made 30 mil overseas and 3 mil in US last week, it means that probably at least another week or two will pass before getting close to the round mark. Nergaal (talk) 04:18, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Crossing the billion dollar mark does not mean as much as it did when Return of the King did it. Toy Story will be the seventh movie to gross that much and that does not make it very notable, even if it is an animated film. It won't even be the first film of this year to gross over a billion dollars worldwide. --PlasmaTwa2 05:50, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Plasma2. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unless and until it becomes the highest-earning film ever. We can't go dividing things up into genres, or we'd be forever posting stories about the highest earning horror/documentary/blacksploitation/pornographic/musical/whatever and getting into problems of defining which category things fell into. Modest Genius talk 14:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
realistically speaking no animation movie is going to ever be the highest grossing film ever. A billion in itself is just a number. I will support when Toy Story passes Return of the king and sits at #3 since thats the prime realistic spot for any movie. Catching 2 above is just ridiculous -- Ashish-g55 15:26, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - not notable enough. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - Mainly due to the fact that it appears factually wrong. The highest grossing film of all time is Avatar, which is animated. Unless there's some loophole where it doesn't count... --Smashvilletalk 19:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Avatar is live action with significant computer animation. Toy Story 3 is entirely computer animated. Technicality? Maybe, but I doubt Avatar would have been considered for Best Animated Film. :P --Golbez (talk) 19:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
IMO Avatar was the other way around - animated with significant live action. But that's exactly the problem with having per-genre records. Modest Genius talk 21:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
oppose no record breaking, we cant added caveats to everything. no big deal either, and certainly no wide press (int'l or even american wide outside the entertainment media)(Lihaas (talk) 20:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC));
Oppose per Lihaas. --Diego Grez what's up? 01:47, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

August 14

ITN candidates for August 14

2010 Women's Baseball World Cup suspended after player shot

A player for Hong Kong was shot during a game, the event is suspended, Hong Kong team withdrawing. BBC News CBC Sports Reuters The Sydney Morning Herald --candlewicke 01:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Support if they decide to completely suspend the event. Something like this is notable enough for ITN. --PlasmaTwa2 05:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Hmm, a stray bullet of unknown source, while the tournament is being played on a military base. Sorry, but 'Venezuelan armed forces are incompetent' is not an ITN worthy event, it's a given. Much like all the 'USA learns new skills' nominations. MickMacNee (talk) 15:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, given that it seems to be continuing, albeit in a different location. Sucks for the person who got shot, but since there's no lasting impact on the event, I don't see the importance. C628 (talk) 15:41, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose- for reasons above. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:50, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, isnt it softball? as in the olympics. support if the event is called off because that is not usual. Munich 72, Atlanta 96, etc, etc were not called off.(Lihaas (talk) 20:57, 15 August 2010 (UTC));
It's baseball as the name says. 2010 World Cup of Softball was another event. By the way, softball and baseball have been removed from the Olympics. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Support brawls etc are not notable, but knife and gun attacks certainly are, eg Seles being stabbed...as for the event not being cancelled neither was Munich nor the tennis tournament YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:25, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It's being described as a stray bullet and not an attack. At the moment it sounds like an accident which hit a single low notability person (Cheuk Woon Yee is currently red) who is reported to not be seriously injured. The tournament itself is not particularly high profile in the world of sports and it goes on. Monica Seles was the world no 1 in the probably highest profile women's sport when she was deliberately attacked. This baseball incident is not like that. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough but why do you assume something is of low notability because of a red link? Everything starts somewhere and everything here was once a red link. --candlewicke 23:40, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I also Googled her and the result seemed modest for an athlete at a World Cup. I just did a new search and got more hits due to the shooting. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:34, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

2010 Summer Youth Olympics

The 2010 Summer Youth Olympics, the first of the Youth Olympic Games, begins in Singapore with 3,531 participating athletes aged 14–18 from 205 National Olympic Committees. (BBC News) (The Straits Times)Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 02:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Support seems like a pretty big deal - especially as its the first. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. On the one hand it's the first incarnation of something which might possibly become a major international event. On the other hand it's getting virtually no press attention (at least in the UK: hidden well down the BBC sport page and not mentioned at all on the Guardian version), and it's just a youth version of a notable competition. We don't post the youth versions of any other major tournaments such as the FIFA U-20 World Cup or the IRB Junior World Championship. Modest Genius talk 12:27, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support As an inaugural event, this deserves to be mentioned. The possible future of the event is far from now, and we should not comment about it. Votes slanted on the fact that it has not received enough attention since, are not criterion that should be roughly respected here. Also, it is silly to compare such event with junior events in single sports.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - a fine upbeat story with international appeal. As consensus appears to have formed, suggest we move forward. Jusdafax 14:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Note This piece of news was also discussed at the Future events section of In the News. See here. Shall we continue the discussion here instead of there? ANGCHENRUI Talk 14:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Here is a proposed alternative:

The 2010 Summer Youth Olympics, the inaugural Youth Olympic Games, begins in Singapore with the opening ceremony held at The Float@Marina Bay.

The original statement included participant no. and info, which are not really primary to what we intend to report. You may also wish to refer to past news statements on multi-sports events for a better idea; i.e. archives. Regards, ANGCHENRUI Talk 14:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose the mention of The Float@Marina Bay. It does not add much, and the weird style of the name makes the whole thing a lot less understandable. Possibly write The Float at Marina Bay per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) (Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official": e.g. avoid: REALTOR®) /Coffeeshivers (talk) 08:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It is done. Third time I've done this now (second was just now) so a spot of sanity checking wouldn't go amiss. Also, someone doling out the ITN award would be appreciated. I'm going for a nice cup of tea and a lie down: me head hurts after all that fun. TFOWR 16:16, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

  Done the awards as best I can. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

There are now a number of free images available of the opening ceremony. I would recommend this one if an admin wants to use it, but feel free to use any other ones that have been uploaded. The cauldron images don't look too great at the moment. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 08:31, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Cordoba House aka 'Ground Zero mosque' supported by President Barack Obama

Support for the construction of Cordoba House, a mosque and Islamic community center near the site of the September 11 attacks, was voiced by United States President Barak Obama. New York Times Story has strong international appeal. Jusdafax 05:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Many politicians and others have already voiced an opinion. As president, Obama will get more attention than most, but I don't think raises his (largely predictable) opinion on the matter rises to the level of being ITN worthy. I would also note that Cordoba House hasn't been updated at all to reflect this info (though presumably that could be corrected). Dragons flight (talk) 08:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Dragons flight. Additionally, the story is still premature and does not have a conclusive result. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 08:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, Obama has stated that the sky is blue. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support. Actually, I think this could be an angle which made it possible to post the Ground Zero mosque controversy on ITN. It is an extremely divisive issue in New York City and elsewhere in the United States, and, even though that is fringe, with the contentions about Obama's own heritage, and the less contentious fact that he is the supreme leader of the country weighing in on the issue, combine to elevate this conflict beyond a local politicized quibble to a battle for the heart and soul of that nation. __meco (talk) 09:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose If Obama had opposed the construction that might have been worthy of inclusion (owing to the subtext "President considers all Moslems guilty by association in the 11 September attacks, and so seeks to prohibit their right to buy and use property in the vicinity") but he didn't. Despite the misleading headline in the cited NYT article, nothing is quoted to say that he thinks it is positively a good thing that the centre be built: he simply asserts equality of rights of people of all religions and distinguishes between the attitudes and aims of Al-Qaida and mainstream Moslem opinion: it would hav been genuinely extraordinary for him to have said the opposite. "Queen joins BNP" would be ITNworthy: "Queen does not join BNP" is not. Kevin McE (talk) 11:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
You seem to miss the perspective that the only neutral thing would be for him to keep quiet on this issue. __meco (talk) 11:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose - this whole story is just a load of local-interest cruft. Obama's opinion certainly doesn't cut it. Nor will the judgement, nor the commencement of construction, nor the opening. Modest Genius talk 12:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - unless I'm missing something, building a mosque in the United States is like building a factory, a chemist, a garage, whatever in the United States. Islam isn't banned in NYC so I don't get why this is such a huge deal. I imagine there were Moslems among the victims that day, too. (Basically, this story wouldn't exist if they were planning on putting a church there.)  f o x  18:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now at least. A president simply offering support for something that currently does not exist and which may never exist? Perhaps if it is built... --candlewicke 23:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. A pile on, just to make it more obvious that this sort of US domestic news tedium is not ITN worthy. And since when was the US President not supposed to stick up for what the constitution actualy says? MickMacNee (talk) 15:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

August 13

ITN candidates for August 13

Death of Guido de Marco

President of Malta who led the country into the European Union in 2004 after submitting its application in 1990 when he was the country's foreign minister. A former president of the United Nations General Assembly. English is one of Malta's official languages. --candlewicke 01:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Support. Unexpected death after what what is usually a safe operation (less than 1% of patients die from complications with angioplasty). Notable international relations career as well. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 02:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per Arsonal. Can't wait for the "Malta is small" arguments. --PlasmaTwa2 02:16, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - also per Arsonal. Jusdafax 03:26, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Former President of Malta and President of the United Nations General Assembly Guido de Marco (pictured) dies suddenly at the Mater Dei Hospital, Msida. --candlewicke 04:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Just because the hospital has an article doesn't justify expanding the length of the blurb with a trivial detail, IMO. Courcelles 04:58, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm good with it either way, as long as it goes up quickly. :) Jusdafax 05:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per [36] and the article (which until yesterday was a copyvio) only has two sentences on his Presidency.--Mkativerata (talk) 07:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose He was not in office upon his death, he was replaced in 2004. Unless it can be shown that he was remarkable in some other way, I'm not sure that this qualifies as a death for ITN. Can anyone expand on his efforts to put Malta forward for the EU? That might be an angle, but I'm unsure if that would be enough. --Monotonehell 07:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment His death meets the second out of the three death criteria. Note that ITN only requires that a person's death meet one of those criteria. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 08:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm aware of the criteria and how to apply them. I from the info in his article I couldn't meet point two, but others seem to think so. --Monotonehell 17:33, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support per the death criteria. Took Malta into the EU, notable UN and Commonwealth roles too, seems significant enough for me. Admittedly the article is rather lacking, but it meets the ITN requirements. Modest Genius talk 12:33, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
support to globalise and give prominence outside the status quo, and per death criteria for ITN.(Lihaas (talk) 15:27, 14 August 2010 (UTC));
It is done. Given my track-record at ITN (non-existent/very poor), can someone sanity check what I've done? Doling out the requisite ITN baubles would be appreciated, too. TFOWR 16:07, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Given I whined about the lack of updates on WP:ANI I believe I have done so. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:16, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Thank you! Incidentally, I didn't update the picture (never done it before, scared I'd break something, etc etc) but I'd suggest this would be a good candidate item for a picture? I've just added the Singapore Youth Olympics, too, but I don't think there's a suitable picture yet? TFOWR 16:18, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support inclusion of picture. The Colombian Presidential picture is old and tiresome. ~AH1(TCU) 21:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support picture as well (most of the blue and stars could be removed - leaving the red and white of Malta - but maybe not if that offends Americans). --candlewicke 23:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - 1. His knowledge of Maltese criminal law and parliamentary affairs are exceptional, probably best in the Maltese Islands. He was up to his death, a Professor at the University of Malta, lecturing second year students in the Bachelor of Laws (L.L.B) - study unit - Criminal Law, an undergraduate course leading to the postgraduate course of Doctor of Laws (L.L.D).

2.He indirectly propelled Malta to become a Republic during 1974, when Prime Minister Dom Mintoff needed a 2/3 votes in Parliament to amend the constitution. Guido de Marco was instrumental in a pact reached with the Opposition. Not so much is written about his Presidency, is due to the fact that the Maltese Presidency is largely a ceremonial position within the republic. None the less he submitted Malta's application to become a member of the European Communities on 16 July 1990 as Malta's Foreign Minister and later reactivated the frozen application in 1998 following 2 years in Opposition. --Gian (talk) 00:18, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

AgBank has completed the largest ever IPO

Long anticipated and closely watched event in the investor world. Agricultural Bank of China today completing the world's largest initial public offering in history at $22.1 billion . [37] [38] [39] All-or-none (talk) 17:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Support if its the worlds largest IPO - the prose looks to have been updated to me. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: The Agricultural Bank of China completed the world's largest ever IPO at US$22.1 billion.. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
If it is to be included (I have no strong opinion), it raises severe version neutral English issues. The IPO article only describes the US situation (although it does not acknowledge this limitation), and UK banking, or at least its reporting in the non-specialist press, would describe this as a public share issue. Maybe the relevant form of ENGVAR should be that of Hong Kong. Kevin McE (talk) 11:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support Obvious feature, a top business and finance headline. __meco (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak support, seems a significant business story, even if most people will think 'so what?'. We certainly can't use a TLA like 'IPO' in the blurb though, and as Kevin McE points out there are ENGVAR issues to avoid. Modest Genius talk 12:50, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment In which article and what can be done to fix them? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:09, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
In the blurb. There are issues in IPO, but that's not a problem for ITN since it won't be bolded. Modest Genius talk 13:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - Story has a good international appeal, and as noted per: Meco is a top business/finance story. Jusdafax 14:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
weak oppose flop IPO, unlike MakeMyTrip that surged 80% on day 1.Lihaas (talk) 15:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC));
By that logic the most notable IPOs are those in which the vendor massively underestimates the value of the company. Getting the valuation right and actually making money for the company would therefore be a bad thing. Which makes no sense at all. Modest Genius talk 18:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
What is this guy thinking comparing the worst largest IPO at 22 bil with a puny Indian IPO of a few million. Offtopic? The fact that this ipo took place amid some pretty daunting market expectations and raised a record amount says something about its strength and was perhaps unexpected. ..I strongly support the blurb by Eraserhead as there's no question it is notable... Its possible that this record will not be topped for a long time. 76.65.20.89 (talk) 18:54, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
For clarity (as it took ages for me to figure it out) the issue with the blurb is the term "IPO" which is an acronym and not necessarily perfectly clear. Though it does appear (as I show below) to be the term used in "Chinese English" so it shouldn't be a problem. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment: if you can resolve the WP:ENGVAR issues around IPO I'd be up to sticking this up. For what it's worth, I remember learning what "IPO" meant only fairly recently (UK/NZ English speaker). TFOWR 16:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

If by these ENGVAR issues you mean the fact that I've called them US$ that's only because without the qualifier they could be Hong Kong dollars given this is a Chinese business related story - and they are worth much less. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:39, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Nope, it's the issue Kevin McE and Modest Genius mention, around "IPO". I'd be OK with "initial public offering" - if that's the usual Hong Kong English term. (i.e. it needs to be wikilinked - I can live with numpties like me not knowing the term if it's wikilinked - because I suspect we'll struggle to find a way to say it in neutral English). TFOWR 17:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah, fair enough. I've done some research and Xinhua, the South China Morning Post, the Hong Kong Standard, China Daily and Shanghai Daily all refer to it as an IPO in their English language versions. They are all the newspapers I can find websites for that are mentioned in the Rough Guide to China so it should be a fair sample. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Just because the English versions of the Chinese press use the acronym 'IPO' doesn't mean we should too. Using undefined TLAs, particularly ones not used in certain parts of the world, is something we should avoid. It's not a complicated issue, just replace 'IPO' by 'initial public offering of shares' and it's fine. It's not as if the blurb has a length issue or anything. Modest Genius talk 20:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough, and I think TFOWR agrees with you. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I do indeed. I think we'd struggle to find a suitable version neutral phrase, so "IPO" it is, but wikilinked as initial public offering. The whole main page experience terrifies me, so I'm going to hold off for now and promote this in the morning (if someone less easily scared hasn't done it already). I'd suggest using Eraserhead1's blurb, slightly modified: Agricultural Bank of China completed the world's largest ever initial public offering at US$22.1 billion. (I've removed "The" from the start, in addition to expanding "IPO"). TFOWR 21:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough, it seems most of the regular admins aren't around this week. Probably another reason why I should go for an RFA :/. Oh and one error with the blurb: 'completed' -> 'completes' for present tense. Modest Genius talk 21:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Posted TFOWR's blurb MG's modification and saying "raising" 22.1 billion. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Note: I should say that ideally the article would have more sourced content on the bank's history. But seeing as we put up the death of a country's President with only two sentences on his Presidency, I don't think that can justifiably hold this posting back. The material in the article on the IPO is good enough. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Discovery of Caquetá Titi

Long speculated but never confirmed to exist, this monkey species is new to science and appears to be critically endangered. [40] [41] Rlendog (talk) 02:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Support - Interesting, and an important commentary on modern human interaction with other species, in my view. Jusdafax 05:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support though I don't think the article is good enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support; IIRC, there was a blurb on the discovery of...something...not too long ago. C628 (talk) 11:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Support - interesting new species, published in the peer-reviewed literature, receiving interest from the scientific press. The article is OK, certainly better than many of the disaster articles we feature. It could do with a picture though, for which I suggest using [42] under fair use (there are only a handful of pictures of this species in existence, so I don't think it could reasonably be replaced by a 'free' version). Modest Genius talk 12:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Question: Hang on a minute, this has a previous DYK listing from 27 July, how old is the story? Modest Genius talk 12:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Archived discussion for August 2010 from Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates.

August 12

ITN candidates for August 12

Perseid meteor shower

With the meteor shower coming at a great time of year for northern hemisphere skywatchers, the good timing of a new moon, and the fact that it lasts several nights, this seems to be a good candidate for an ITN article. Add in to the mix the decent condition of the article (a couple good photos and good prose, although I notice two cite tags) and the upbeat feel of the item, which balances all the worldwide disasters. Hoping for a timely !vote, thanks. Jusdafax 16:28, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Weak oppose. ZHR is predicted to be only 80, which is nothing special. We'd be posting 3-5 showers a year at that sort of level. The article is OK, but the information relates to every Perseid shower, not just the one currently In the News. WP:ITNR already lists ZHR>1000 for automatic inclusion; I don't see anything particularly special about this shower that makes it stand out as a special case. Of course, if people want to have a handful of meteor stories per year we could start posting all the 'strong' ones, for some (probably difficult to decide) definition of strong. However, I doubt there will be much in the way of article updates for each strong shower every year. Modest Genius talk 16:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
With all respect, I'd ask for a reconsideration. I just went outside here in Florida, looked to the NE where the action is, and saw a nice big long one within a minute. Cool! I also note the Perseid's are a featured article on the MSN main page; I really think we are missing a bet. We don't have to feature every meteor show, but I think this one is a good article candidate because of favorable lunar conditions and a summer warm-weather treat in the northern hemisphere. A photo from the article would be awe-inspiring also. I am already tried of the president of Columbia's mug. Jusdafax 04:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
'I saw it and it was cool' isn't really much of an argument I'm afraid. I'd like to see some input from other editors though, so I'm adding it to the feedback box. Modest Genius talk 12:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
This WAS a story that needed timely action, and didn't get that. Reducing my argument to one sentence, a personalized comment I made, is out of context. In any case the peak has come and gone, and I withdraw my nomination. Story is stale. Jusdafax 13:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

P versus NP problem

The caveat of this story is that there appears to be flaws in Deolalikar's proof that have to be addressed. (BBC News) (See also the sources used on the Wikinews article for some additional sources.) Per WP:NORUSH, I am not proposing that we publish this story now. However, if this proof is confirmed (now or by someone else in the future), I would like to find out whether this kind of story would be appropriate for listing in ITN. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 07:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

The Millennium Prises were added to ITNR, so, yes, when confirmed, this goes up. Courcelles 07:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I did not notice. Thanks for the quick answer. :) —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 08:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Wait. This should certainly go up if/when confirmed. However, it a) needs to be published in a peer-reviewed journal and b) needs some proper, detailed confirmation. Whether or not we should wait for the prize to actually be awarded is something we can discuss at the time. Modest Genius talk 12:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Wait for award This is obvioulsy only an ITN item if the prize is actually awarded. MickMacNee (talk) 12:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree with MickMacNee, the story is the award, which will happen after it's confirmed. ~DC Let's Vent 13:03, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong support upon confirmation of proof and award. This is one of the great unsolved problems of the Millenium, and also I blame the oneness theory for causing so many unsolved problems to be solved. :P ~AH1(TCU) 15:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Why couldn't Vinay Deolalikar be Pakistani? I fear the end of our Pakistan run on ITN is near... -- tariqabjotu 15:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong support upon confirmation of proof and award. I wouldn't count on our Pakistan run getting over. ;-) they seem to have a penchant for staying 'In the News'. Though I hope we see at least a temporary lull in militancy due to to many suicide vests being lost in the floods--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:07, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
dont think this item needs any support. This is an obvious ITNR whenever it takes place. after all there are only 6 times it can happen. And i highly doubt its anytime soon. even doubtful for this one actually. -- Ashish-g55 02:08, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
strong support WHEN the award is given (is this award listed on the ITN-recurring list? if not it should be). Nice to have some difference on ITN and also to reward those working on the technical wikipedia projects for their work.Lihaas (talk) 02:50, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes it is. Modest Genius talk 14:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The article on the bio has been nominated for deletion. ~AH1(TCU) 13:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Obvious strong oppose with what I see so far: An unknown chap who pushes a paper that has been refuted by leading mathematicians. I am puzzled as I would have thought there should only be support if the proof is legitimate - as opposed to a mere claimed proof - and the prized awarded, which has not and probably will not happen any time soon. 76.65.21.129 (talk) 16:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC) -Thom

Autism detection

BBC I think it is a widespread-enough condition to be worth mentioning. 18.111.55.86 (talk) 20:34, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Support in principle, since this is just as significant as the alzheimers item we have at present. Is there an updated article anywhere? Modest Genius talk 12:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

August 11

ITN candidates for August 11

2010 Pakistan floods

It's close to sliding off and yet there are several events added to the portal each day about this situation... food prices have quadrupled... the UN has just launched an appeal for lots more money... there must be something to use if there is agreement. The UN says its worse than the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami, the 2005 Kashmir earthquake and the 2010 Haiti earthquake put together - an event on this scale really doesn't come along that often. --candlewicke 04:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

this article has been bumped to the top twice already. no doubt this is a significant ongoing crisis but I don't think it is so important that it deserves a 3rd bump. cant remember the last time we did that. so Oppose ( BTW I was the original nominator of this article)--Wikireader41 (talk) 04:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
The UN thing is... wow. I'd probably wearily support, but I do share the concern of a third bump. Seems a large enough scale to warrant it.  f o x  09:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Support after reading this ghastly article - 14 million people affected, 6 million need "humanitarian assistance", 6,000 villages "wiped off the map"... and they are a nuclear power that is now seriously destablized. The UN hook is the way to reframe it. Deserves the precedent-breaking third bump for sheer magnitude. Jusdafax 09:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC) Update: Here's another development in that the president of Pakistan is finally going to the flood zone after taking a lot of flak for not going sooner. Has that before and after space photo in the article already been used on the Main page? Jusdafax 10:04, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it has. I'm also thinking that the President thing will be more concise a blurb than "worse than Haiti..." if we do choose to have a new one.  f o x  10:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose It's been up there long enough, and already bumped up twice. ~DC Let's Vent 12:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Strong support - now 2000+ fatalities, many many without place to live, whole cities were flooded. Kubek15 write/sign 12:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose It should never have been bumped in the first place simply for being 'ongoing', and this is why. MickMacNee (talk) 13:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Support adding the new information, oppose the bump-up. The new information obviously needs to be updated but we still have multiple global catastrophies at the moment and currently it looks like no one catastrophe deserves more attention on ITN than any other. ~AH1(TCU) 15:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, the UN is saying it is a bigger catastrophe than 3 recent major catastrophes put together. How can that compare to the other current global disasters (the floods I presume you mean, and the fires in Russia, and so on)? All bad but none of them seem to be on this scale. And since these disasters are so rare there is no reason to believe that every other disaster should be bumped as well unless it is as bad as this (unlikely in most cases). --candlewicke 05:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Well said, bravo! The new developments make this an article of continuing interest. Jusdafax 05:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Note: The President of Pakistan has now cancelled Independence Day celebrations this Saturday. That might be another useful angle. --candlewicke 18:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
The Pakistan floods are affecting more people than three past disasters combined, but I would disagree that it is more significant than the other two stories right now. The maximum death toll from the Pakistan floods may be 3,000, while 1,600 are confirmed and 14 million people are affected. However, the total death toll from the Russian fires, smog and heat wave is easily 20,000, while the confirmed death toll in China from the floods exceeds 2,500, and well over 10,000 are missing, and 200 million people have been affected. I think the Pakistan floods will be the last of those three events to come to an end, so maybe it's significant in that way. However, the other two disasters are likely more significant than the Pakistan floods. ~AH1(TCU) 22:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose a third trip to the top. By now, everyone has seen the headline. Courcelles 18:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unless and until something majorly new happens, that would be significant enough to be posted on its own. We can't just keep bumping things simply because the situation is ongoing. Modest Genius talk 13:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Venezuela and Colombia re-establish diplomatic relations

This is big news, as it looked like warfare might break out. Nice to have some good news on the Main Page as well. (The New York Times) (Aljazeera) Jusdafax 21:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

What, no one? Let's have somebody step up and discuss this in a timely fashon, please. Jusdafax 02:21, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Support due to the background of this particular case. The article would be at... Colombia–Venezuela relations. --candlewicke 03:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Support--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Posted. I note we posted the severing of ties two weeks ago so this should be uncontroversial. Credits will be delivered in the mail shortly.
Great, I'm encouraged. I will work on the lede in the Wiki article which needs an update to reflect the ITN item. Jusdafax 04:07, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
My mistake - I think the article is just about there but I'll hold fire this time. --Mkativerata (talk) 04:08, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
An IP did a brief fix, I'll ramp it up now. Jusdafax 04:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Colombia–Venezuela_relations#2010 fairly updated by now. --200.127.175.240 (talk) 04:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

  Done I kept getting edit conflicts, but added my contributions under yours. I think it fits pretty well, so thanks "200". Mkativerata, what do you make of it? Jusdafax 05:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the improvements. --200.127.175.240 (talk) 05:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
The bare urls should be converted to citenews refs - sorry I'd do it myself but I'm at work.--Mkativerata (talk) 05:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Agree, will do. Jusdafax 05:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Nearly done. "200" is kind enough to work on his refs, and my NYT ones are done. Should be ready for prime time any sec. Jusdafax 06:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
  Done and further improved. --200.127.175.240 (talk) 06:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm satisfied. Re-posting. Courcelles 06:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

My very first! Thanks Courcelles... I'd like to take the time to thank 200.127.175.240 who worked very hard to help improve the article and endured my grumpy posts on his talk page, Candlewicke who had a crucial first support and the article pointer, Wikireader41 who backup supported, and Mkativerata who sheparded the process along. I will be delighted to continue to participate here, as it is rewarding work. Thanks yet again, Jusdafax 07:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Belated support.  f o x  09:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Need to also mention an ITN posting on the talk page of the article, doesnt mention its posting for 12 August.
Good catch, uh whoever posted that, as the talk page is templated for the July ITN item, not the August. Anyone know how to fix that? Jusdafax 15:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Copy and paste the template.~DC Let's Vent 15:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
(Facepalm) Thanks! Jusdafax 16:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Kashmir killings

This is very tragic. There have been violent protests over recent weeks, many innocent civilians mostly children have been massacred by Indian troops. I nominate this event for consideration. Cowboyintexas 22:40, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Link, source, article... anything? You've got to give us something to go on. Courcelles 02:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I m sorry I m new at this I don t know how to find an article. Can you help and point me in the right direction? I can post a few news media reports. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2010/08/kashmirs_cry_for_freedom.html http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2010/07/22/in-kashmir-india-now-struggles-with-children-of-conflict Cowboyintexas 03:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

There is not yet an article for this event. It was nominated 6 days ago but did not receive enough input for posting. The event appears ongoing. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 03:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment there has been an uptick in violence in Kashmir with Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence(ISI) once again boosting the militants in Kashmir.[43], [44], [45]. This story could have been combined with the wikileaks Afghan_War_Diary#Pakistan story we had in ITN about continued ISI meddling in neighboring areas that we carried a little while ago. If someone can come up with an NPOV update and a neutral blurb we should consider this.--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:56, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. What is the death toll? The 2010 Leh floods in Kashmir killed 165 people recently but has not been posted. ~AH1(TCU) 15:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
its not really an uprising as such as that in Bangkok and Kyrgzstan -- if it does get more widespread and sources say its a large scale uprising then an article can be made.Lihaas (talk) 21:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC));

August 10

ITN candidates for August 10

Google, Verizon net neutrality proposal criticised

The proposal is under fire from net neutrality groups and the FCC chairman, who see the proposal as having loopholes that will create an uneven playing field for internet users. Coverage from the New York Times, Reuters, Financial Times and numerous other international news outlets. Of interest to anyone using the internet. New York Times Jusdafax 20:15, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment You mean internet in the United States? —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 22:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Worldwide, I believe; since much content originates or passes through the U.S. the proposed policy changes would have widespread impact. Jusdafax 22:26, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It's hard to say why this deserves main page exposure when nothing has actually happened that affects anybody yet. It's basically a story about comments on a new net neutrality proposal. MickMacNee (talk) 22:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd have to disagree there. The core news is that Google and Verizon, two powerhouse outfits, have teamed up with a proposal they intend to implement. Google had previously been in favor of Net neutrality and their switch in many people's view is a very big deal. Don't downplay the "comments" against this new policy when they include Julius Genachowski, the FCC Chairman. The fact that the story is being reported in the press around the world makes a strong point also; I was just reading an article on this written in India. Jusdafax 23:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
its a proposal only. even if implemented it wouldnt effect the net neutrality beyond US. I would still support the implementation of something like that but just proposal is sort of useless since noone has power to implement it yet. -- Ashish-g55 23:22, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
My understanding is that the "proposal" is a bit like the boiling frog - it can just be phased in and become defacto policy. As for the power to implement, the U.S. courts recently ruled the the FCC has no right to regulate this type of thing, meaning a power vaccum exists. Interesting also is the coincidence that former U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens died today. His comment about the internet being just a series of tubes when it came to network neutrality was a classic demonstration of how some politicians are clueless regarding the issue. Jusdafax 23:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Greenland ice sheet breaks off -- Petermann Glacier

This happened couple days back but just noticed it now... A 260 sq km. part of Greenland ice sheet broke off and is heading towards canada. Star"It is believed to be the biggest such event in the Arctic in nearly 50 years."... BBC "There was enough fresh water locked up in the ice island to keep all US public tap water flowing for 120 days," -- Ashish-g55 19:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Support if there is an article on Wikipedia. We've put up a couple stories of icesheets breaking off from Antarctica. --PlasmaTwa2 19:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
The updated article is Petermann Glacier. Its actually a pretty good update. -- Ashish-g55 20:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Comment. Is this ice sheet threatening anyone? It's a much smaller event than the 2002 Larsen A event in the Antarctis where 3,250 km² broke off. __meco (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Risk of soapboxing. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 20:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
wait what... how is this soapboxing? its the biggest ice chunk separated in arctic in about 50 years. Thats a fact and not some global warming agenda pushing. and for meco's concern. Antarctic ice is much different than Arctic (lot less of it to begin with) hence a chunk this large is very unusual. -- Ashish-g55 21:01, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - but only because the news is now stale, in that it is days old. If there are new developments in this story that are of great notability I'd be interested. Jusdafax 21:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Weak support. I could have nominated this a few days ago, but did not. However, I'll note that the chunk that broke off the Petermann Glacier is a fraction of the size of the Mertz Glacier calving, which was nominated a while back but was quietly ignored and never posted. A major point of notability would be that this glacier effectively connects Greenland to Ellesmere Island, and could speed up ice melt in the high Arctic. The chunk that broke off was technically not part of the Greenland Ice Sheet, but part of the sea ice that extends from it. However, this is still a large chunk of ice for the Arctic, even though 90% of the ice shelves surrounding Ellesmere have collapsed in recent years. Also, I strongly disagree with the assertion that this nomination could be soapboxing. Climate science is one of the quickest-changing scientific fields, and we should post new developments on ITN just as we would post a major story from paleontology or medical research. Just because we have a probation out on climate change topics currently does not mean that it is a gag order. If anything, we should be increasing our posting of climate stories, not decreasing them. Putting a climate change-related story on the Main Page does not fall under any definition of soapboxing AFAIK. ~AH1(TCU) 23:31, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

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