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User talk:Martinevans123

Rafael - Ressurreição de Cristo (detalhe - anjo).jpg

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialogue, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.

Martin, As you archive so regularly (unlike some editors ...) I thought that this would
a) Brighten up your page, and
b) Add a serious tone amidst all the hilarity.
All the best to you and yours –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 11:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. A lovely picture. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I have made a little seasonal update - hope you don't mind! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Not at all. The snow has almost vanished.
A Christian feast commemorating the resurrection of Christ; the first Sunday following the full moon that occurs on or next after the vernal equinox, neither earlier than March 22 nor later than April 25.
I hate this BST ... why can't we stick with good old GMT? (... it follows the sun after all)
Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard – 10:27, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
now, I ask you, what kind of alphabetical (or significance) order is that?!!
Yours, aye John Lemon
Have always loved that record. Good compilation of photographs ... who is the geezer in the middle — at 1 min 32 secs? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
For some reason, he always reminded me of Nixon!
Oh! Of course. I knew that really –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)


Wiki JukeboxEdit

... my own personal permanent fixture tribute...
You turn your back for a just a second and some strange Swedish person sneaks in and steals your records!!

Please don't donate generously any more (.... and add whatever you like!!):

Jukeboxland - never try and sneakily enter at your own risk
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

All deleted, on the advice of User:Fram, in case there is a copyright problem.

Blocks all round?Edit

"They've got womanly breasts under pale mauve vests,
Shoes like dead pigs' noses,
Cornflake packet jacket, catalogue trousers,
A mouth what never closes."
Please, Mr. Admin-robot, don't be a Blockhead.
Oi! Oi! ... Cornflake packet jacket, catalogue trousers, A mouth what never closes...
Their shapeless haircuts don't enhance, Their ghastly patterned shirts.. (allegedly)

"I'm a tail dragger, I wipe out my tracks"

  • What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back? A stick!
  • I couldn't quite remember how to throw a boomerang, but eventually it came back to me.Boing
  • The other day I held the door open for a clown. I thought it was a nice jester.clown

Father Jackum's polyphonic retort generatorEdit

Enjoy (talk) 18:04, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

"OMFG". Not seen you for a while, Dot! I thought you'd been sent down for at least 30 years for giving Nasty Nick his last ever WP:GAR. But what a lovely musical gift! Hours of Manchester fun. lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:32, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
There's a lot of malicious tongues round 'ere, and you know me, I ain't one to gossip, but apparently Ethel's ghost still lurks in the corridors, and has been seen at night asking "where's my willy?" (talk) 19:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Ooo, tongues-a-wagging, eh? That's the last thing you need, dearie. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 26 September 2015 (UTC) ... but everyone needs a friendly ghost!
[1] EEng (talk) 20:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
A great tool for all new users, I feel... "Big hello to big Father Jack Wayne, xylophone." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 26 September 2015 (UTC) In years to come, future civilisations will say "Ah, so Wikipedia was useful, after all."

Editor of the WeekEdit

  Editor of the Week
Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week for your determination and dedication to help the encyclopedia grow. Thank you for the great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Ritchie333 submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

Coming up to 9 years of service and 77,000 edits, Martinevans123 is truly one of the unsung heroes of Wikipedia. On the surface, you may know him for his witty banter and Private Eye-esque visual humour, which I always enjoy, but beneath the surface lies someone who toils away day in, day out, on keeping articles in better shape. He doesn't go for the big awards like GAs and FAs, but he really does make the encyclopedia better without much reward. This nomination was seconded by User:Yash! and User:MelanieN.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:
{{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient user box}}
A Tarot Card
Editor of the Week
for the week beginning February 27, 2016
9 years and 77,000 plus edits, wit and humor hide an unsung hero. Daily work at articles to make the encyclopedia better without much reward.
Recognized for
his witty banter and Private Eye-esque visual humour
Nomination page

Thanks again for your efforts! Buster Seven Talk 19:35, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Right, that's it! Please accept my resignation! 19:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC) p.s. but many thanks, anyway. That was really unexpected. I am deeply touched. (allegedly)
The award is usually distributed on Sunday. Due to the unexpected amount of touching displayed on this page you have been penalized with an additional day as Editor of the Week. This matter has not been discussed with the other WER clerks (Are there any other WER clerks?) and cannot be rescinded or changed in any way. Buster Seven Talk 20:08, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm very pleased to see that you are keeping up the old traditions. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:01, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Very well deserved it for your amazing contributions! Congratulations! Yash! 20:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Haha. Well, as Debbie might say .... "I'm always touched by your presents, dear." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
  • ... as I said three years ago ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Better as part of the Charivari, I guess, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Oh yes. "Rough "cat" music" sounds fine to me! [2]. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:10, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
We miss an article on your trophee [de], seriously! Cat music is not all there is to it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, as Google tells me: "Traditionally, it is used by men in the codpiece of costume lederhosen worn." I'll see what I can do! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:21, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
It has come to the attention of the Editor Retentions' Board of Clerks that you may, perhaps, could be, in possession of a much desired and rarely displayed Official Wikipedia T-shirt. The report states that it is black with the The Wikipedia Globe prominently displayed. The report further states that you may have had your name imprinted on the front (potentially an act of vandalism). This would imply that you have already received accolades and "pats on the back" for your efforts. If that is, in fact, the case you may suffer the misfortune of having an additional day added to your week. The issue is under review. You will be advised ASAP. Buster Seven Talk 22:07, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
To be honest, I often do feel just like running away.... But chosing the right t-shirt can be such a delicate task (boyo) Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Many many congrats M. This is well deserved - thanks so much for all you do here at WikiP. MarnetteD|Talk 22:29, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, MarnetteD. That's very nice of you. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:50, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
@Ritchie333:: please confirm receipt of that large Paypal payment, which seems to have paid off this time. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:10, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
I thought we were just going to settle quietly for a pony and a Greek island? Draws less attention to the taxman. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:04, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Darn it, Threesie! There's no need to make a song and dance about this. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:08, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Jeez.... talk about an "embarrassment of riches".... I now appear looking like some medieval ballet dancer, wielding a rustic baseball bat, with a low-slung Bavarian jockstrap and half-mast socks from the trenches. Do you take me for a complete fool?? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:37, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
I count myself very lucky to get this glittering award. A Ram Invents123 (talk) 13:08, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Um....the baseball bat is more of a fungo bat, actually. It's used to hit fly balls to the outfielders during batting practice. And the Bavarian jockstrap is, um, obviously for someone that is well-endowed. Plus, its a Fool card. Not a Complete Fool card. I thought you would like it. The tights have a "slimming" quality, don't ya think? Buster Seven Talk 07:14, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, that's me corrected and suitably slimmed. But you know what they say "... wherever the US Army goes, the fungos too. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:22, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
So long as they are good herding dog socks with a royal pedigree, then hang on to them, but do keep them pulled up. Robevans123 (talk) 23:34, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Ah, feck!Edit

My Mrs Doyle tribute edit

RIP Frank. Shaken but never stirred. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Now, and what do you say to a WikiCup? "Feck off, cup!" Mrs Doyle (talk) (cont) 13:54, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Ah, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on..... Martinhacket123 (talk) 14:05, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

1 month blockEdit

No idea what you think you were doing, but reposting a page already deleted for copyvio, with minimal but clearly insufficient attempts to olve the copyvio, is a bad move in any case, and certainly when you already have a history of copyright problems.

When you write (outside of the already too long quote relative to the length of text of the original)

  • "After returning to France, Chaperon began working with his former classmate Auguste Rubé, with whom he had worked at from Ciceri's workshop at the Opera. Together they provided the sets for many lyrical works staged in Paris. Composer Jules Massenet commissioned them to design sets for his le Cid in the city in 1885. Chaperon could have drawn on memories of his travels in Spain to help evoke the warm atmosphere of the opera."

and the original has

  • "De retour en France, il s’associe avec son ancien condisciple de l’atelier de Cicéri à l’Opéra, Auguste Rubé. Ensemble, ils fournissent les décors pour de nombreuses œuvres lyriques jouées sur les scènes parisiennes. Ce fut le cas lorsque le compositeur Jules Massenet leur commanda des décors pour son Cid en 1885. Philippe Chaperon put facilement puiser dans ses souvenirs pour évoquer au mieux l’ambiance chaleureuse de l’Espagne propre à cet opéra."

then you are not writing your own text based on the information found in that surce, but you are simply following the original text line by line and nearly word for word, just changing (often for the worse, like with the "at from") some things here and there. Fram (talk) 13:21, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

You could have easily removed the parts that you judged to be copyright violations, thereby preserving the article. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
".. following the original text line by line" is usually necessary to preserve the chronology? These are basically just facts. And the lines were fully attributed to the source, which had not been the case in the original article. If the above really constitutes a gross violation of copyright, you need to revdel here too? If the blockquote was too long, in your opinion, but not a violation of copyright, you might wish to copy it here and indicate just how long it should be? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
User:Atlan says this, at AN/I about my initial respove above "His reply to the block notice is concerning. It implies he should be allowed to add copyright violations and that others should fix them. If that's his attitude towards copyvios a 1 month block might not be long enough." No, that's not "my attitude" at all. I can assure you that I had no such intention. I'm very sorry that you might choose to make that implication. I created that article is perfectly good faith, believing I had done enough to avoid any copyright infringements. I was suggesting that Fram could have easily fixed and kept it, even as just a stub, while still blocking me for not taking "due diligence". Perhaps he's not allowed to by his Admin Ts&Cs? From my point of view the deletion of the article is just part of the punishment. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

  There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User Fram and User LouisAlain. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks very much for telling me, Andy. Thank you also for your kind efforts there. I do apologize for any of my humour that you find particularly grating. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Really! — "outside of" — I'm speechless. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 15:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Yes, Gareth, I've been blocked for a month for poorly paraphrasing three sentences from a fully-attributed non-English source. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC) p.s. I was about to "thank you" for your comment, but one doesn't have access to the "thank" function when one is blocked. So thanks.
So they kick you when you are down (but not out) Huh, it would appear that your past history of tireless diligence matters not a jot. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 16:05, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
I think the standard reply is "any amount of article improvement does not make you immune from having to follow policy that applies to everyone". But it does occasionally look like punishing editors for breaking the rules is more important than content creation, or trying to help a fellow editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:23, 30 January 2019 (UTC) .... I think the more sensible question to ask would be "what percentage of the editor's edits are problematic?"
I must admit I had assumed Fram would have User talk:LouisAlain on his watchlist and would see my note to him there. I also assumed he would probably take a quick look at my Sandbox and offer any advice that was necessary. Not part of his Admin brief, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
I trust that other, non-involved Admins, might be able to view the material that's been revdel-ed and form their own opinion. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Of course I'm all with you Martin, I know the feeling. Can't say more fear of being blocked until the end of times. Sigh. While blocked I translated The Childhood of a Leader with our common tormentor in mind. But 'nough said.

LouisAlain (talk) 17:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah, it now seems to be "part of pattern" of "troublesome behavior", as at Ben Rich (weather forecaster), which Fran must have been fully aware of when he blocked me? And not dredged up now, after four months, to justify a full month's block. I'd challenge anyone to rewrite a factual statement like this "in their own words": In 2012 Ben joined the Met Office team at the BBC Weather Centre and spent a year presenting UK and global forecasts. Surely, either Rich did this or he didn't? How can one copyright a simple declarative sentence like that exactly? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Agree, Martin, and just added you to the "rejected" box on my talk. No time for this, and ANI, right now, for the moment just look at Ray's Rules for "Don't waste your time". - It reminds me of Khazar being driven away by copyright violation accusations, and I tried to fix his articles. A terrible loss that was. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, Gerda. Ray's Rules are spot on. Even if User:HJ Mitchell thinks I am a "somewhat troubled editor"! Yes, HJ.... troubled by the ton of bricks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
My last block from Fram (an indef, that lasted 2 days), a year ago, was for posting YouTube videos "without bothering to check" if they were copy vios. This one is for paraphrasing three lines of French into English. Not really the same kettle of fish at all, really? I do hope this block is not upheld at AN/I. If it is, I'm sorry to say that I certainly won't be around when it expires. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm not saying Fram doesn't have a point... But I am saying that his response was totally disproportionate. I'd unblock you myself but I'm biased, both by knowing you and by having had previous disagreements with Fram over his approach to good editors who have fucked up. I'd say wait for common sense to prevail, but ANI is terrible at resolving anything other than simple issues so I'm afraid you might be waiting a while. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
HJ, thank you for talking complete sense (as usual). Quite happy to wait (for a while, at least). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank goodness I'm not an admin (and never want to be one), or would unblock you and many others. Never understood how a block of a content editor ever made the encyclopedia better. Needless to say I also had my disagreements with Fram, so shouldn't. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you again, Gerda. No worries. Yes, I'm beginning to also see a pattern emerging, but not the one that Fram is so currently keen on emphasising. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps I need to dial things back a few notches and rethink some of my approaches. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Martin! This page is on my watchlist, so I've seen some of the recent developments. Because of what you wrote above, I looked at Ben Rich (weather forecaster), and was considerably less than encouraged by what I saw. I've suggested at ANI that that page should be sent to WP:CP – it needs to be rewritten pretty much from scratch, I believe. Then, more or less at random, I looked at Museo Casa de la Moneda (Madrid), where it seems that essentially every word is translated directly (and very nicely) from various pages of the website of the museum, with a bit from the FNMT. Do you believe that content to be free for anyone to use? Because I see nothing on this page to suggest that it might be. Sorry ... Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:46, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Justlettersandnumbers. Thanks for pointing that out. It seems I have a bit of a problem with non-English sources. I'm not sure I can avoid the "translated directly" bit, but I may have to adjust the "very nicely" part. Any suggestions on rewriting any of that article would be very welcome. I'll try and go through it. I seem to have an issue with often seeing source material as just "facts" that can't be rewritten without making them untrue, or at least less true. Feel free to check any of my contributions that you suspect. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:26, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
JLAN, the Earwig tool (which I have in my Sandbox and use whenever I can) shows "Violation Unlikely 16.7% confidence". How low does that level have to be to assuage your concerns? Is there a project-wide agreed maximum level? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Yes, sorry, I was careless – I should have linked the tool to the specific version of Ben Rich I'd looked at, which was this one. It's now showing as more or less OK because you and Diannaa have made a number of changes. When you use Earwig's tool it really isn't the percentage that counts, but what the tool has marked as copied. If it's a mass of proper names and quoted material, there can be a high percentage but no copyright problem; if it's running text the page may need attention even if the percentage is low. The museum page needs to be completely rewritten, in words that are not those of the sources, preferably removing all existing text (except the opening sentence) before you do so. Please let me know if you need help with or advice on that or any other page. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks for your scrutiny and helpful advice. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:56, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
I've made a few changes at Museo Casa de la Moneda (Madrid).If you feel it needs more radical action and/or if you can locate any better secondary sources, I would heartily welcome your input. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
One problem with other Wikipedias is that they often don't point out that their content is "borrowed" from a site, and here you commit copyright violation when you translated and didn't even know it. Happened to me, too, just nobody saw it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:02, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
That is another pitfall, yes, except that in this case Fram had very clearly showed us the source. I just thought I had done enough to get round copyvio. And there wasn't just one source, there were three, all of which I thought I had attributed properly. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)


Martin, I've unblocked you. A 1 month block in a situation like this is unproductive, and based on the comments at ANI, I think there's enough consensus about this that I'm not sticking my neck out too far here. This unblock is not because there weren't some close paraphrasing/direct translation problems - there were - but because the block button is a clumsy way to educate a good faith editor, and because this had little or nothing to do with the Youtube issues from a year ago. You've previously expressed respect for User:Diannaa's ability to explain copyright issues, so I'll ping her here and ask her to take a look and talk to you about it when she has time. Until then, probably a good idea to stay pretty far away from translations or rewording... --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:59, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Yes, thank you Floquenbeam. Drmies (talk) 02:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, Martinevans123. Looking back through our previous discussions on your talk page, I found I've already given you my standard advice, here. Content has to be written in your own words and not include any of the source material. One thing I find that works for me is to read over the source material and then pretend I am verbally describing the topic to a friend in my own words. Don't look at the source document while preparing your prose, and you will be much more likely to come up with something fresh! then go back and compare with your source and make sure it's okay before you post your edit. Stuff should also be presented in a different order where possible. Summarize rather than paraphrase. This will typically result in your version being much shorter than the source document. It might be worth your while to have a look at and study this module aimed at WikiEd students. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 22:46, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi Dianna. Thank you for that very useful advice. I know you are always very busy. I have made the change you kindly suggested for Ben Rich (weather forecaster). I will certainly take a look at that link. I think the slight difficulty I seemed to have with my wording for Philippe Chaperon was caused by the translation from the original French. I'm sure it could have been easily sorted with just a few tweaks. A great of drama could have been very easily avoided. Anyway, thanks again. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Part of the problem with Ben Rich (weather forecaster) is that the article is based pretty much solely on the one source. What I try to do is have at least three sources and draw on all of them when preparing my edit. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 00:13, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm glad you're unblocked, Martin. This is honestly one of the worst blocks I've seen in quite some time (I say that knowing I've made a few stupid blocks over the years). Nonetheless, take the advice you've been given by Floq and Diannaa (both editors and admins I hold in the highest esteem) and be much more careful in future. Diannaa's point about summarising rather than paraphrasing is particularly worth mulling over. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks HJ. I can't think of anything I've seen you write that I've disagreed with. I have a great deal of respect for your work here. Likewise with the esteem for those two. Diannaa's copyright advice is always excellent and I will certainly take it on board. She's already given a perfect example of just that principle. Meanwhile, I do hope someone will have anther go at creating a better version of Philippe Chaperon. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:05, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Voceditenore did. Joy to the world! - It's a birthday, also, more on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for telling me. Looks like it's now in very good hands. Still not sure why it had to deleted twice instead of just being retained as a stub, with the "offending parts" removed and/or revdeled. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:30, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Much as I'm glad this is all resolved, all thing being equal, I'd rather be in mainspace than arguing at ANI. I've lost my appetite for the politics. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I can see why. Main space is pretty monumental, isn't it. But I've heard that In France They Kiss on Main Space (allegedly). Martinevans123 (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC) please provide your own copyright-compliant YT video
omg - unblocked and into quoting joni justlikethat :) JarrahTree 03:18, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
A great artist and one who deserves quoting, I think. I saw my 8 hours 41 minutes as a "learning opportunty" as, I expect, did some others. Apologies again for the random piping. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
classy piping, to a FA (which hasn't appeared as TFA yet) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:59, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Great to read this excellent result that your one-month ban is quashed and your equilibrium restored.
Thank you, Diannaa, for your considerable help here, and for the link to the dashboard training module; I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I chose all the correct answers to the quiz. Cheers! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Looking at the DDT example in "plagiarism", I think I still have a problem with not being able to use many of the same words in the same order for scientific topics. Science tends to be built on facts. And there's only so far you can go with re-writing facts in you own words. The article says quite plainly "you should paraphrase the ideas and concepts you want to share on Wikipedia: present the information, phrased in a new way" which seems to slightly contradict its earlier advice that one should instead rewrite a whole passage, in one's own words, using a wholly different structure. Glad to say I also got all the quiz answers right. Some of those quiz options are quite scary, though, aren't they? e.g. "Delete your Wikipedia account, because you've been blacklisted as a plagiarist." Who would ever be tempted to do that (after a month-long block, for instance)? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:00, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Martinevans123. I still do not have time to work on articles again. RL will also stop me in the next few months. But I watch what happens. I am glad that you are unblocked. The information from User: Diannaa is very helpful for my planned texts. Especially since I will use English, Spanish, French and more languages as the source of my review of articles. I signed in to Wiki Education - all questions answered correctly. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 21:56, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you Maxim. Yes, Diannaa if one of the most efficient and helpful editors here, I think. RL?Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Real Life — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 23:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes. How easy to forget. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
  • So glad that you're free again to participate Martinevans123. I feel a tad annoyed that all this melodrama happened because you tried to rescue a page of mine that was deleted. From now on, no more translations from French or German texts, I simply didn't know it was considered copyvios (yes, it sounds stupid now). I'll link to them without any further fuss. May this piece enlight your heart this morning. Some happy triggers are devoted disciples of Discipline and Punish. Yours, LouisAlain (talk) 05:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

♫ It's the most wonderful time ♫Edit

♫ of the year ♫.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:32, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, just the time for some awesome Austrian symphonic black metal!! [3]. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Ond diolch yn fawr am eich dymuniadau da!

RIP André PrevinEdit

Rhapsody in Blue, Ain't Misbehavin', Black and Blue. The list of his jazz highlights goes on and on. Those TV programmes with Oscar Peterson really were wonderful. They had quite similar playing styles (as I think Ain't Misbehavin' there (1963?) demonstrates). AP never had the brilliance, clarity or sheer power of OP, but they had similar swing and phrasing. There's something charming about Previn's more laid back, even lazier, touch. Sorry to ramble so.... or even Rumble Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP indeed. Such a wide ranging career. From his film scores of the 50's through the jazz pieces you mention to his Sounds Magnificent series where he taught me about the history of the Symphony he was wonderfully talented. Best regards to you M (and thanks for the links) and your talk page watchers. MarnetteD|Talk 22:51, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Yes quite. I'm not sure how "major transformative world leaders in their field" applies here. His "field" was really so very wide. There are very few musicians of the past 70 years who have been equally productive and well-respected in jazz, film and classical music. He was a bit of a one off, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP Jacques LoussierEdit

Do you know Previn 2? Jacques Loussier, referencing just as bad. But I go to bed, with his Play Bach on my mind. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:07, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh my God. Another great. I had not heard. Another one of my early heroes. Hearing him was a pivotal moment in my musical appreciation. Thanks for the news anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Similar for me, and then I heard him once more, Rheingau Musik Festival, took pictures, but that was before digital cameras. Lovely place, I was on the balcony, - bad perspective anyway ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Third time - legendary - Loussier and Brubeck. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Goodness me how lucky you were. That looks very special. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Waking up! - Ever so proud of this historic edit. Will look after his article after morning routine (operatic DYK to opera and Germany, thank yous and watchlist). 3 songs to Ravel's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP Michael GielenEdit

My heart! Today I wanted to expand Loussier, but first write about a woman, Liane Synek on IWD, who took part in the premiere of Die Soldaten, conducted by Michael Gielen. I took that to the lead. He died, as I just found out. During the Gielen era I saw Aida, and heard him say in an interview, asked why - with all these great conducting projects - he also composed, and he said that if he didn't he'd have to kill someone. RIP. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah, that is sad. But yes, a fine age of 91 years I see. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Yes. This article is almost fully referenced, for a change, but under-facted. So much in the external most of which still existed, - I'm just too tired. Tomorrow. I followed your example and fished an image from the commons ;) - also showing Reimann in 1965, - met him last year (Medea), when he looked more like in his article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussionEdit

  Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lehol (talkcontribs) 19:47, 2 March 2019 (UTC) (This misplaced notice was moved here from User:Martinevans123. —C.Fred (talk) 20:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC))

Yes, thanks. There seems to have been some slight misunderstanding as to which country Dublin was in, in 1909, when the artist Francis Bacon was born there. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi, at that time and nowadays Dublin is the capital of Ireland. The UK is made of/constituted by countries, differently from USA, which is constituted by states. At that time UK was composed of the following countries: Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Dublin was never a British city, simply because it is out of Britain, and it sounds completely unfair to say that someone is British if he/she was born in the time of British empire, people born in East countries other than Russia cannot be considered Russian nowadays if they were born in the old Soviet Union state, Portuguese born in the time of Spanish rule are not considered Spanish. You could have left "Dublin, Ireland" and in parentheses have put "part of the UK of Great Britain and Ireland at the time", this nation does not exist anymore since the independence of Ireland as you know. So bear in mind: If you're born in Britain you're British if you're born in Ireland you're Irish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lehol (talkcontribs) 22:43, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I seem to have lost the gist of your argument there. My argument was simply this:
However the infobox you were edit warring over has now been removed. So you'll need to take your argument elsewhere or, better still, just forget about it. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
p.s. you've been editing since 10 February. Could you please start to sign your Talk page posts by using four tildes like this: ~~~~ ? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:16, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Oops, sorry – misclickEdit

Hi Martin, sorry about this nuclear revert with extra drama and mayonnaise – I have literally no idea how I did that! Apologies, DBaK (talk) 21:37, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

How very exciting. I've now got you pencilled in as the IP from King's College London. It keeps us entertained!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Good Lord. That is exciting. Will I receive an enamel badge or something? That would be nice. Thanks, DBaK (talk) 21:44, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
A badge? Here's one I made (much) made earlier. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Well that's very very nice thank you young man! Cheers DBaK (talk) 22:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Ooooh, young maaaaan!! "And uh, you Sir, at the back, in the green pullover, do you have a clichéd thought for us?": End of an Era Martinevans123 (talk) 23:04, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Brut y BrenhineddEdit

The source so describes it, but I think it means "the version/edition of the book held at Dingestow Court". I think your straight link is better. KJP1 (talk) 12:38, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes. I was too lazy to even check the source. But I was guessing you had followed source(s). I'm not sure if a piped link, or even a full brief explanation in parentheses, would be any better. I'm sorry to just parachute in like that. The perils of the Watchlist! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
No worries. As with most of these obscure Monmouthshire houses, you, I and Ghmyrtle are the only ones who ever edit them, so it's good there's any interest at all! Although Mounton House has recently received some attention, I suspect from residents of the school previously located in the house. But they seem rather less interested in recording Tipping's architectural achievements than in creating a list of the members of their soccer team. KJP1 (talk) 12:58, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Haha. Yes, we all need "the beautiful game" (?) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:03, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Content forks at ITNEdit

My apologies, it seems I misunderstood. It's oft mentioned that I don't contribute in article space, and it makes me defensive. Thanks for clarifying. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:08, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I'm rather guilty of making the odd joke or random aside at ITN/RD, occasionally even in bad taste. But if you felt so very strongly about the mistake made in posting André Previn, you could have made your first comment something other than "-that was fast. TWO dead Germans in the box in just two weeks"?! I almost felt quite jealous. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 3 March 2019 (UTC) p.s. no-one's ever going to knowingly want to be seen "pulling a Pell", are they?
At the time I hadn't read it, it was a legit reaction to the speedy posting. I took at look at the article after and !voted for a pull. FWIW I don't see the importance of George Pell either, but there is consensus to post it and the article is fine so what can I do. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. I also often make remarks from a gut reaction and end up looking quite foolish. It often pays to be cautious. But it seems your instinctive reaction here was quite accurate as it turned out. I still wish we could spend less time debating at the nomination and more time just each adding a few sources each. I'm not sure André will ever get back on as an RD blurb now, which I think is a shame. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Listen Martin, I am pulling all the right hooks ..... but not necessarily in the right order! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:59, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
As a musical Admin, could you not "pull a few strings"?? [4]. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Be careful of when to use rollback.Edit

Hi there. I noticed that you used rollback on this diff. Try not to use rollback on those situations, since the IP made edits in good faith. The IP thought a British word is spelled wrong, which is certainly not vandalism. Should you accidentally used rollback, you should use a dummy edit. Cheers!INeedSupport :3 16:21, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice. I have no idea what the IP (from the University of Wisconsin) was thinking as there was no edit summary and they have made no other edits to this artiole or any other ever (as far as I can tell). If you are in contact with this anon IP editor I would appreciate your help in appraising them of British spelling conventions. I see you have already given them a spelling lesson on my behalf. Cheers! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP Jacques Loussier (26 October 1934 – 5 March 2019)Edit

Just a genius [5]. Solo: [6] For me it was like flipping the musical coin and suddenly seeing tails instead of heads. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:19, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Jacques LoussierEdit

 On 7 March 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Jacques Loussier, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 23:01, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Some Bach, but not from Jacques. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
willow blossom
... with thanks from QAI

Musical thanks! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:45, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Spanish ArcherEdit

Hi Martin, long time no see – my apologies! I've just come across the WP article Spanish Archer. It has no references at all, and the British Film Institute's bios for the show's alleged presenters, Rhodri Williams and Ruth Madoc don't mention it. I can't find any reliable sources to show that it existed at all. I'm always very reluctant to suggest the deletion of an article, in fact I can't recall ever having done so. What do you think about this case? Very best wishes! JezGrove (talk) 23:43, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

BBC salariesEdit

(copied from User talk:Juanpumpchump)

Hello Juanpumpchump. Why do you think Template:Infobox person has a parameter entry for "Salary" if not to add a well-sourced salary? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:26, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi, if you look at the whole story about what BBC staff earn then yes because the BBC is clearly out of governmental control and does need to be reigned back in especially because in the past they have been exposed when they rigged viewers competitions and nothing to mention about Operation Yewtree at all...
Re: the salaries then no because it a private matter what you as a member of the public earn as it is between you and your employer and if you go to your Human Resources department at your workplace about "how much Dave Bloggs earns", they will tell you that it is his personal information, they will not release his personal information and that it is none of your business.
These pay salary issues came to light when the British press pretty much had a dry period and then they all jumped on the band wagon and it is a matter of light entertainment history that ITV and other previous UK independent companies such as Lew Grade's ATV - always paid their staff more than the BBC and that is completely ignored.
If you read Jon Pertwee's book "Moon Boots & Dinner Suits" he quotes that if you worked for ITV in the 1970s you earned twice as much for half the filming schedule with ITV than the BBC and when he asked for a little bit more money at the end of his 4th year as the Doctor when he had agreed to film the next series he was told that the fifth series would then be his last and the producers shook his hand and wished him all the best for the future.
I welcome a reply to my statement.
Juanpumpchump (talk) 13:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
HiJuanpumpchump: The fact that BBC salaries have been published in the public domain shows very clearly that they are certainly not "a private matter". I'm sure Jon Pertwee's book may be very interesting, but the addition of individual salary information to the articles in question has nothing whatever to do with the Human Resources department at my workplace, nor "governmental control", nor Operation Yewtree, nor Lew Grade's ATV. It's a simple fact about the individual concerned. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 8 March 2019 (UTC) p.s. we need not replicate this entire discussion at both of our Talk pages, thanks.

List of recurring Monty Python charactersEdit

You may not be able to give out the death penalty for links in headers, but you are definitely going to get the Comfy Chair from the Spanish Inquisition for missing The Colonel. SpinningSpark 11:02, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

D'oh! I'll just go and answer the five three questions, my leige! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:10, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Your removal of source from Tom BallardEdit

Hello. I just wanted to ask about Special:Diff/887290478 to Tom Ballard that removed the source I added. In your edit description, you put "except I don't see it anywhere in that source." However, that source clearly states "Tom Ballard was born in the Peak District of England in 1988." (It is about 2/3 the way down the article, but should be easy to find with a page search). Of course it is hard to scan sources quickly so I totally understand how you would have missed it. Would you mind putting it back or maybe adding a better source? (I realize there may be better sources but I figured this one was better than "citation needed"). I'm not going to put it back myself because I don't want to start an edit war and I just don't care enough about the topic; I was only trying to be helpful when I saw "citation needed." Desertborn (talk) 18:58, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Desertborn. Sorry. We seem to be editing at cross purposes. Yes, that year is perfectly visible in that source, and thanks for adding it. But I was seeking a source for 16 October. Do you have one? Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for your note here. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I see now. No, sadly I don't have one for the day. I'll look some more. Desertborn (talk) 19:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. In the meantime I have re-added your source so at least his year of birth is supported. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:17, 11 March 2019 (UTC)


To sleep, perchance to dream — Neonorange (Phil) 00:21, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

String of HitsEdit

I'm a bit stuck here. This album, from what I recall, was absolutely huge at the end of the 70s and it seemed my parents and all their friends had a copy and loved to play it at dinner parties. Time, however, has not been kind to it and it has slipped into obscurity as a dated relic of its time, which means no sources cover it. For a number one album, that's pretty unusual. As Shaw Taylor was once fond of saying .... can you help? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Hardly a police matter, I feel. At least there are 7 different sources at that article! Even if one of them is the dreaded Martinevans123 (talk) 14:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Clifton Chenier Bon Ton Roulet excerpt.oggEdit


Thanks for uploading File:Clifton Chenier Bon Ton Roulet excerpt.ogg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:28, 15 March 2019 (UTC)


Did you see the last 4 minutes of Alan Partridge on Monday? Jeesus he was the head off of him. Went down "extremely" well over here, he had the whole thing down pat, it was very nuanced. Coogan could now run for president of Ireland. Ceoil (talk) 12:23, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

@Ceoil: Not really my place to say, but I've received some off-wiki correspondence saying that Martin is taking an extended wikibreak and isn't sure when he'll be back. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Can you pass on my best wishes and fond regards to my auld sparring partner. Ceoil (talk) 17:48, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Certainly. I'm not sure when he'll be back, but hopefully he will be in due course. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:31, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Ceoil) your good wishes were and are much appreciated. That last four minutes is really quite disturbing and indeed also very funny. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Dude I know a paddy when I, loike, hear one :) Take care man. Ceoil (talk) 14:33, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
I can't imagine for a moment that you ever find the time to watch the wonderful Eurovision. But when did Azerbaijan get so good?? (well, I guess in 2011, when they won, of course). The production on this I think is just stunning. Must have cost quite a large proportion of the annual Azerbaijani GNP and came a very respectable 6th. The Aussies might have won for that amazing staging alone, but only managed 9th. No Johnny this year unfortunately, but we still had a relatively sober Graham William Walker. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
The Icelandic song this year is a thundering disgrace ;) is all I have to say on the matter. The whole thing should be shut down, or given over to a nice respectable presenter like, oh I don't know, Alan Partridge. (wonderful yes!) Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
At least Hatred Will Prevail was a bit different. The spirit of rebellion and unconventionality lives on. Great to see Verka again of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
I'm no prude, but to be honest I reached out and PUNCHED my television when confronted by the bare arse of that nice Icelandic man. The sorrow and the pity, god help us if there is a war. Ceoil (talk) 21:45, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Lol. The Reykjavík bondage thongs worked for me, dearie. But, more to the point.... some stax to die for! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
It was so much simpler and nice in my day, when the worst of the worst was unholy Americans trying to be Rod Steuart. Ceoil (talk) 22:14, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

ANI NoticeEdit

  There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.

The discussion may be found here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:39, 30 March 2019 (UTC)



Wood sorrel for daffodils, Martin and who cares. I updated my playlist (click on April) a bit (including Pärt's Cry), surprised how well "Lord, have mercy" and "the angels' charge" go with the unexpected death of a friend. He is pictured here, only the image - which I thought would be good for Easter - is threatened with deletion, because some artwork is hanging on the walls. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Lovely. Thank you Gerda! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:43, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
"Latest post" was never intended to be permanent; just drawing your attention to my meddling   Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:19, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Happy Easter! Life and death close, great music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:26, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for a sign of life!! - Yesterday, three (!) were reported as recent deaths, sigh. I did what I could for Georg Katzer and two others who turned out to have died in April already. What I could was not good enough, it seems. I wrote about his opera then, more pleasure there. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:55, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the little bit of sorrel, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:02, 12 May 2019 (UTC) "...sometimes I wish..."
Funny, the opera article is now the one place on the web which has the date of premiere right. The obituaries are wrong by two years because they took the planned date (or what?). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
We sang today and yesterday, both times in church (today the one named after you), both times with a bishop holding the service, yesterday one from Niger, in memory of the friend who died, today the one from Limburg. Both occasions pictured, - I'm getting faster ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:10, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
I also miss John. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
I'll never forgive him for his "hatchet job" on our Eddie. Fortunately. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
He gave me a job in case I outlived him. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:36, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

And this is why you don't use online translatorsEdit

In the news today: [7] Google Translate will get it right when a hyphen is included: [8] Unsurprisingly, people were reminded of the 2008 classic.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:23, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

It's enough to make one want to retire, isn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:52, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Spare £3.5M?Edit

Now here's [9] a nice Grade II* listed Monmouthshire house going begging. Well, perhaps not quite begging.... Hope you're keeping well. KJP1 (talk) 17:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I was hoping to secure a seasonal interest in the potting shed, for a bit less than a full nine yards. I'll probably spend the rest on a few biscuits for the tea house. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2019 (UTC) p.s. thanks for your great improvements to that guy from Maindee.
It's a great pleasure - I'm very fond of Hando. Do you suppose Ghmyrtle has Rambles in Gwent? It's the only one I've not got and it's damned elusive. But then a nearly 100-year old paperback must be even more worn-out than you or I. KJP1 (talk) 22:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
KJP1 - Nope, sorry. I have four of his books but not that one. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, somewhat elusive. It looks like this apparently. But neither Abebooks nor Alibris UK have it. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Strong and stableEdit

I'm very clear on that. U? Softlavender (talk) 23:26, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

No U-turn here, thank you! Time to rearrange those front bench deckchairs, I feel. Blue rosettes anyone? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:07, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
The music is so fine this time of night in these latitudes. Should the Captain go down as well? This has been a very vexed question of late. Softlavender (talk) 07:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Just for the record, I'm not sure poor Dave even had a properly inflated life-jacket when he hit that icy 2 a.m. water. Maybe everyone's Brexit Buffoon, our Noris, ought to resign now while the going's good? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Lordy, there are tapes! On the other hand, I don't think the Brexit bros are going anywhere, not while State propaganda is propping them up. Win/win! -- Softlavender (talk) 20:40, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Did someone mention Hope and Keen's Crazy old Brexit Bus?? Three years later and still strategically poised for that final leap of faith. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2019 (UTC) .... ah yes, the fresh air of true European Democracy at work

Jacques LacanEdit

I see he wrote for the Encyclopédie française. I suppose if anyone can, Jacques Lacan can. [10]Mango Mapes (talk) 19:11, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Bass player in a leather jumpsuit? Get it while you can. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Your talkpages make for interesting reading, I must say.
So many links to click on, so little time. Seems a particularly intriguing one has disappeared from the internet entirely(?) Hopefully this will do as a stopgap. —Mango Mapes (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh dear, yes. We don't talk about Billy any more, I'm afraid. Even though good Lord Dacre of Arnos has moved on. But I understand he has a shrine over at our noble sister organ. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:40, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Virtuous pagans and vicious circles...Mango Mapes (talk) 14:26, 19 May 2019 (UTC) [11]
Ah, Joni. I can never resist. Just so beautiful. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:32, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Her real surname was Anderson. She had polio as a child. Sca (talk) 12:42, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, a lot of women have to put up with fake surnames, don't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:53, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Sophomore jive from victims of typewriters. Do you remember that period in the 1980s when she started dressing like Jacko and pretending to be a Native American? Genius. —Mango Mapes (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, a bit "one-feather-short-of-a-War-bonnet" that period, I always thought. Never mind. I always preferred something a bit more anguine: [12]. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:17, 20 May 2019 (UTC) (and yes ... the track that follows that one on the album, "Edith and the Kingpin", is just a 3 minute 34 second poetic and musical masterpiece, in my very humble opinion; just incredible)

My Knickerbocker Glory tribute editEdit

"My milk shake brings all the yobs to the yard,
And they're like,
Our country is better than theirs,
Damn right it's better than theirs,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge it to company expenses" - Kelis Yaxley-Lennon (no relation): [13]

Yes it jolly well should!Edit

So, thank you very much for this. Cheers, Some anonymous person ... (... who is not really here, and should not be ...) 17:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

[14] .... when I'm not really here, I'm also often tempted to try and fix stuff... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Ha! Thank you, Martin, for the excellent and very enjoyable links! :) Best wishes (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
"Chill thy syncopated scaly beans, dude." They don't call me Martin-"Louis Balfour"-Evans123 for nothing, you know. Mmmmm, nice. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:14, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh definitely nice!. And cycloptilum comprehendens in the rhythm section – even nicer. Cheers (talk) 11:33, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
If only I could formally "thank you" for your kind message, mysterious Haringey Virgin IP. Instead I'll just have to send you some more insect jazz: [15] Martinevans123 (talk) 12:26, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
You have thanked me, so nicely! But I am going to try now – famous last words perhaps? – to disengage a little from this lovely place and do something more productive for a short while. Ha – as if anything more productive were even possible! Catch you on the flipflop, dude. (ahem) Cheers (talk) 19:03, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, famous last words.... and so, just to cheer you up: "Hey fellas! How about this for a headline for tomorrow's paper? French Fries!". .... and please don't take this personally! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:28, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Sad newsEdit

Hello M. I just read of Leon Redbone's passing. A true fave of mine - I thought I would share this montage of pics that accompany his performance. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah sad. A great loss. Joe Venuti on that track there, another true great in my book. I have none of Redbone's albums, but have been a longtime admirer. Only found him via this guy (but can't remember exactly how): [16]. RIP Leon. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts M. And a link to another wonderful song! MarnetteD|Talk 20:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
I've now remembered it was via this song, although I had heard him before that, on the John Peel Show singing this classic - like nothing I had ever heard before. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2019 (UTC) ....there's also a wonderful live version (at the historic Plaza Theatre in Orlando, FL, on 2/19/11) at YT, but it has no copyright permission, alas.
I played both versions M. He sure did seem to have fun creating music :-) MarnetteD|Talk 19:00, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
I'd also recommend that clip of him playing "Ditty-Wah-Ditty" on a US TV talkshow (perhaps you can identify it). It's not dated, but am guessing it was probably around 1977 when Double Time was released. It really rocks from start to finish. He and Cooder were very much kindred spirits, I think. It has been such a joy for me this weekend spending a few hours re-acquainting myself with his genius. A few of his albums are now very much on my birthday list. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:15, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
If it is the one with the red curtain behind him it is the Tonight show with Johnny Carson. His rendition of Champagne Charlie is a kick as well. I do hope some of your talk page watchers are enjoying the music at the end of these links. MarnetteD|Talk 19:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, 3:23 with the truly wonderful bass saxophone (Jonathan Dorn on tuba on the album, I think), two cornets and drums accompanying. It's been there for 9 years, so I'm guessing NBC have decided not to sue. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Proud of you lot todayEdit

We don't want him back. Softlavender (talk) 01:11, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure all this fuss will blow over..... [17]. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:02, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Usage of the Daily Mail on the page about Black ShuckEdit

Thank-you for your edit to Black Shuck. In the summary you state either we can use the Daily Mail as a source or we can't??. While I accept that the Daily Mail should not be used to source just about anything, I believe this case to be an exemption under WP:SELFSOURCE i.e. The Daily Mail is a reliable source for what they have published. El komodos drago (talk to me) 10:44, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining. Did the Daily Mail simply repeat what was in the East Anglian Daily Times? Maybe we should discuss further at Talk:Black Shuck? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
I can't see any reference to the '7 foot' figure in the EADT article. As for starting a discussion on the article talk page, that's up to you. El komodos drago (talk to me) 11:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
Ok thanks. So where did this "7 foot on its hind legs" come from, exactly? I'll open a thread. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:16, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Citation Barnstar
Dr. John would sing you a song. Or groove on a New Orleans Jazz funeral. Keep up the good work. 7&6=thirteen () 19:45, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Thaaaaanks Thirteenzie!!.... cool beenzie.... any excuse: [18] (... featuring Pete Fountain on clarinet, Charles Neville on tenor and Al Hirt on trumpet) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

..... so sad, another musical genius taken.... this from two of my mostest favourite albums ever Dr. John Plays Mac Rebennack The Legendary Sessions Vols 1 & 2: [19]
Yes. but what a catalogue!
Makes me want to get table d'hote at Tujague's in the French Quarter, and some begniets and coffee at Cafe du Monde. Interesting that Tujague's doesn't have its own article.
Speaking of Dr. John, I think that the two obituaries I added reliably source a lot of material that is already in (or not in) the article. I'm in transit and am indisposed to edit this much for a while. I'm hoping it gets WP:ITN. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen () 20:05, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
"Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans"?? ...with Harry..... yes I saw your comment at ITN/C, which seems to have been completely misconstrued. oh well. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:14, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Charlie Foxtrot. FUBAR. You can lead a horse to water ... 7&6=thirteen () 20:53, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
"... 'ere, Furrteensie, me ol' china.... I 'ad that Charlie Foxtrot in da back of me Grauniad tacsi de uvver nite.... an 'e cum over all long pausey on me, an' all." --Taxi zum Pat Butcher 123 (talk) 21:04, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Adding one more favorite to the tributes that the rest of you have already left. RIP DJ. MarnetteD|Talk 21:36, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, thanks a fine album. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
I'll meet your Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans and raise you a Basin Street Blues. (posted before I read the preceding well put comment). 7&6=thirteen () 21:43, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, Pete Fountain again there on clarinet. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
He appeared a few times on Treme (TV series) - along with many other wonderful musicians. It is worth watching just for their performances if you (or your talk page watchers) haven't seen it before. MarnetteD|Talk 21:46, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Marnette, will certainly take a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Not forgetting one of his best: [20].. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Slightly ironic, is it not, that semi-stub articles, provided they are fully sourced, can enable an individual who is barely known to get a link on the Main page, while someone of the statute of Dr John may not appear? I don't see any way round this. Maybe it doesn't really matter as many readers will navigate straight to the article via Google, regardless of what's on ITN/RD and regardless of the alleged "quality" of any article. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:17, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

And it is sourced. We've improved it much.
Admittedly, becuser it is a very large article, there are still paragraphs that are not sourced.
but oveerall,this is a surprisingly comprehensive and well-sourced article about a very well known (WP:GNG and WP:MUSICIAN) and important musician. ITN is being deliberately perverse.
Notwithstanding, the pages views topped out at 200,000 in a single day. Good job! 7&6=thirteen () 12:50, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

"deliberately perverse..." ouch! How very Daily-Star-dare you! You'll be claiming next that ITN/RD has been infiltrated by paid-editing undertakers. We all know these Google-surfing numpties will lap up any old fishy tripe. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:00, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
For successfully nominating ITN/RD entries, editors will receive hip-hop axes and "death stars" on a random basis.
Could be. But I've no ax to grind. 7&6=thirteen () 13:03, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Even his time will come, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:07, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Speaking as one of the small circle of cranks who own ITN, I agree it can appear paradoxical that a short RD nom that's easier to source has a much better chance of making it than a more comprehensive article, but linking to a BLP article from the main page (and the recently dead are still covered by BLP) requires an inline citation for every statement that could be challenged. There isn't anything "deliberately perverse" about that - that's policy. If there are paragraphs unsourced, you just have to do the work and source them.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Porn King. As long as it doesn't grow into a big circle, we should be safe (??). Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
You must get people making jokes about your name all the name eh? No actually, it never struck me before. Porn King. Te he he.-- Mr. Smoketoomuch 15:21, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
If only. Sorry pawny, I didn't realize that was your actual name. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2019 (UTC) p.s. "Well, you'd better cut down a bit then! Ha ha ha."

Orphaned non-free image File:Rufus Harley With Georges Arvanitas Trio.jpgEdit


Thanks for uploading File:Rufus Harley With Georges Arvanitas Trio.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:39, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Rufus Harley and his son America Patton

Have added this one from Commons at Rufus Harley. Not many free ones available. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:57, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Move to a quiet life?Edit

Hi Martin, thanks for all your sterling work on the poets. You are a long standing trooper and I salute your assiduity. Seamus has been pretty stable for the last eight years or so. There used to be long edit wars over the Irish/Northern Irish/Derry/Londonderry questions. This is why the article was phrased as it was. I think the links to Castledawson and Toomebridge, and Bellaghy suffice. As you know there are editors that go hunting for Catholics to edit and Irish politics to get upset about and place names to yell about. Could we revert the mention and avoid getting into all that again? Many thanks. Anna (talk) 11:20, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I have reverted. I was really only aiming to locate smaller places in larger places as early on as possible, hence my edit summary "rationalise" e.g. Bellaghy in County Londonderry. But whatever. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:29, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Forever in your debt. Anna (talk) 11:30, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
p.s. I've never tried to salute an assiduity, but it does looks very tasty.... even if it was "originally made out of honey, semen and semolina..." Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 8 June 2019 (UTC) .... or maybe you meant an acid eulogy: [21]??
I'll salute any kind of assiduity you like, especially if it's got honey in it. Semen, not so much. Careful, sweet pea, that's how wars start. You'll be had up for cultural defamation. Or something. Anna (talk) 12:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Haha. You can't beat a bit of manga or a bit of zest, can you. But yes, I'll chew it over, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:24, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Talking of acid-unity, you can keep your spunk, thank you. I hope your dreams are going to find you, shining like the sun and-not-feel-ing blu-ue, like you always do-o. Btw, Glasgow is never a good idea. Anna (talk) 12:48, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Hahaha. Now that IS funny. Thanks! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:52, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Have a little vote on meEdit

"Anyone seen my horse"?

Roud 4790: [22]

There was Cocaine Mike and Marijuana Bo,
Walking on down the aven-o,
Saying "Honey have a sniff, have a vote on me,
Yeah, have little hit on me."
(1922 more verses folks...) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 8 June 2019 (UTC) ...I feel exhausted already.
Make a wish, dear.... [23]
But apparently acid is beyond the pale. —BoJo Brand —Preceding undated comment added 14:55, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Indeed. As are box cutters. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:59, 13 June 2019 (UTC) p.s. Philip Hammond thanks you for your kindness and looks forward to a managed withdrawal
Ah yes, "need a complete tool? choose "BoJo Brand", as NOT seen on TV"? Good job the TV debate is going to be on Channell 4? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:46, 14 June 2019 (UTC)


Hi! Sorry for my bad English... I tried to look for English (and an Hungarian - the official website of Hungarian General Directorate of Water Management) source for the crane flow under the bridge... Maybe you can put this together:

"This morning at 10 o'clock the water level in Budapest was 466 centimeters, which is 122 centimeters due to the low more than the southern level of sunday (588 cm). The water level of the Danube is expected to sink below 400 centimeters on Wednesday evening in Budapest."
  • "The huge floating crane, named the Clark Adam, had been docked at a quay close to the accident site for days. The Hungarian government was even considering taking it apart to get it past the bridges.
But that proved unnecessary, so now the Hungarian government can carry out its original salvage plan which was scheduled to take place on Sunday.
"I also believe that it's very important to raise the boat quickly. This morning I talked to the chief of the Counter Terrorism Centre and we agreed to finish plan A by Sunday." " (ARIRANG NEWS YouTube channel: Crane reaches site of deadly Danube boat sinking)

I hope this helps to understand the last half of the sentence what I wrote in to the article. Fauvirt (talk) 13:17, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi Fauvirt. Many thanks for taking the trouble to do all that. Yes, that make a lot more sense now, think you. I'm sure you could add some more of this detail to make things clearer. I had no idea either that the crane could be dismantled or that the river could be partly diverted in Slovakia. I guess there is no overriding sense of urgency for the authorities now, as the salvage operation will, sadly, not affect the outcome. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Some more infos:

  • "After falling significantly in the first days of the week, the Danube has risen several inches over the past 24 hours and is expected to rise a bit more until around midday Friday — due to melting snow in its upper basin — before falling again." 6 June 2019,
this snow is now the main problem, because it feeds the flood, therefore divers can only work crawling / lying down - this is not effective, of course but they do what they can.
  • Gabčíkovo–Nagymaros Dams - this explains how they could reduce/hold back/diverted the amount of the river ;o)
  • Time // Water level (cm) // Water flow (m3/s) // Water heat (C °)
"2019.06.07. 15:00 // 466 // 4000.000 // 18.4
2019.06.07. 14:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 18.3
2019.06.07. 13:00 // 467 // 4010.000 // 18.3
2019.06.07. 12:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 18.1
2019.06.07. 11:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 18.1
2019.06.07. 10:00 // 466 // 4000.000 // 18.0
2019.06.07. 09:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 17.9" (I archived it here: )
  • "Water levels, which were unusually high due to rains and melting snow in the higher parts of the Danube basin, were receding more slowly than anticipated, the National Water Authority OVF told the state news agency MTI on Friday. (Additional reporting by Krisztina Than Editing by Peter Graff)" Fauvirt (talk) 14:12, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks again, Fauvirt. I suspect the article does not need this level of detail. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:52, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Oky. I prefer if other edit the article, not I... therefore I tried to write as much information as possible to you...   Fauvirt (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
I see. Thanks for explaining. It might be an idea to copy this over to the article Talk page? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:53, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Would you rewrite what you need, please?   Fauvirt (talk) 09:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Fauvirt. I have copy edited. Does that OK to you? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:45, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, thank you!   Would you look at this too? I am not sure that "gémnyúlás" means "boom lifting platform" in English... you can see in this document: a sketch and chart (page 10, search: "Úszódaru", "Clark Ádám 120 t-s úszódaru vázlata és teherbírái diagramja") of what I wrote (or I would have to describe it)... Fauvirt (talk) 10:19, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I will try. As you have probably guessed, my knowledge of Hungarian is limited to what I learned in that famous 1970s BBC comedy series. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
My English is similar...    but I hope the illustration figure helps.   Fauvirt (talk) 10:51, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I can assure you that your English is pretty good. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:53, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
  Fauvirt (talk) 10:58, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I see that Clark Ádám (crane vessel) says: "Clark Ádám is a crane vessel, specifically a floating sheerleg...? Really no idea what a "gémnyúlás" might be. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:15, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Hmm.. this is completely true: "it is not capable of rotating its crane independently of its hull" so I think yes, that's right. Fauvirt (talk) 11:25, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Gémnyúlás... If the Boom (gém) is in vertical position is the "gémnyúlás" zero... if it approaching to horizontal it will be bigger/longer... is it now clearer?... or more complicated? ;o) Fauvirt (talk) 11:31, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Maybe sailting direktion?... Fauvirt (talk) 11:48, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, I think I understand, thanks! Now busy constructing my own scale model.... GoogleTranslate suggests to me that the literal translation of Hableány is "foam girl"! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:29, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Cool! :o)
  so yes, the the two words "one by one" means these but so, "together", the meaning is mermaid... Fauvirt (talk) 12:38, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Ah thanks. Similar in English really - "maid" on it's own generally means female domestic worker, but it's an archaic term for "a girl or young woman; "mer" has no meaning on its own in modern English, it's from the Old English mere meaning "sea".... or so Wikipedia tells me, anyway, haha.
Wow... but yeah, i heard that the 'Old English' as if it were a different language, it has changed so far until today. But by the "hableány" hab also means wave as a synonym (because on the top of the waves many times there is some "foamyness"
More of a merman, I think[*]
). ;o) Hungarian is a complicated language ...   Fauvirt (talk) 16:44, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, Old English is really totally unrecognisable to most people in the UK, even those of us who like dogs. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:38, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
oh, the surfer I didn't even notice... :oD
a "bit serious backward": if you really have the meaning for "gémnyúlás", can you reword the sentence to be good?.. no urgency... I'm just interested. :o) Fauvirt (talk) 08:31, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Will have a look if I can. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:39, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanx! Fauvirt (talk) 09:20, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Um, you made this edit which seems to change a value and add two sources. I'm not sure what's wrong with any of that. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Clark ÁdámEdit

Hi! I will revert this edit. magyar is part of the name of the company. It simply means "Hungarian Ship and Crane Yard", literally. That is the full name of the company. Teemeah 편지 (letter) 16:53, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah, apologies. Thanks for that. Yes, it might be useful to keep the Hungarian link. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:07, 11 June 2019 (UTC)


Hey M. The video isn't allowed where I live. Could you mention what it is so I can try to find it another way. If you prefer to keep it a mystery no worries. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 21:49, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

could be wrong ... I could be right ---Sluzzelin talk 21:54, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Sluzzelin. MarnetteD|Talk 21:59, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes thanks, Sluzzelin. MarnetteD - how very surprising, as it's published by the band's VEVO account and as there's no indication whatsoever of that restriction at this (UK) end. There's no mystery intended. I can assure you it's not Rats, it is indeed PIL with the video of this. Perhaps you can find a locally visible version? I wonder can you see this one, which has not been uploaded by the Official VEVO account, but rather by "MadFranko008 Published on 9 Jun 2013", has had over 2.1 million views since then, and actually has two separate license statements (one of which is a copy of the one on the official one). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
As Mr Lydon so ruefully tells us:
"Your time has come your second skin
The cost so high the gain so low
Walk through the valley
The written word is a lie" --Model citizen in every way (talk) 22:06, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
It gives the message "The uploader has not made this available in your area" which I've seen a time or two before. Is this the same video or at least the same song. If so your US talkpage watchers can use it. A good choice for the situation M. MarnetteD|Talk 22:39, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Oh sheesh I just left the same link that you put in your second post M. At least we found one that works! MarnetteD|Talk 22:40, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Oh well, never mind. Perhaps poor Fram would be able to explain the mysteries of YT geographical restrictions (... but when he's a little less preoccupied, of course). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:47, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Didn't know where to put my June flowers, so here: "poor Fram". Frightening how fast you can be "weg vom Fenster" (as we say), complained about, silenced. We are all grown ups here. - a legacy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, curious. Here's proper grave dancing as it should be, of course. --The WMF Singers 123 (talk) 20:57, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
I'm still not over it that he died just days after the legacy, the last comment he wrote on his talk page. Followed by this, - useful edit summary. For WMF? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, quite tragic. Shock Brigade was such an asset to the project. Re WMF: don't worry, I've posted a comment at Jimbo's Talk page that will sort everything out in a matter of days, weeks, months or years. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
I left Jimbo's page in 2014. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
"... and before them... when the first WMF fish crawled up onto the WP:ANI land....OUR LAND!!! ... with your barely developed dispute-resolution lungs... [24] Martinevans123 (talk) 21:46, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
Why feed the hand that bites us? CosmicRayReardon (talk) 14:29, 25 June 2019 (UTC) (Did someone say "grave dancing"? Nevermind!)
Thanks Ray, boyo. I was always a big fan of your deep screw and stun shot. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you!Edit

  The Reviewer's Barnstar
This is for your valuable efforts for reviewing articles under pending changes protection. Thank you PATH SLOPU 14:23, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, that's me .... Professor Pat Pending. But thank you very much! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Did someone mention Postman Pat? He wouldn't last five minutes round here. CassiantoTalk 14:34, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Goodness me. That's not how I remember it at all. And where's Looby Loo?? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

2019 South American blackoutEdit

Not sure of Twitter is a good source. north of Río Negro, coastal cities and metropolitan area. By 1:00 pm local time, power was restored in 75% of Uruguay. (talk) 16:53, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Well it's a bit WP:PRIMARY, of course, so not ideal. And that one is in Spanish. But I think Twitter is usually seen as OK, especially when it's the official Twitter channel of a company. I don't see why that source could not be used. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:11, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Mister 150%Edit

Mike Veale is no longer the record holder for his "120 percent" true allegations against Edward Heath. Jeremy Hunt says he agrees "150%" with Donald Trump's criticism of Sadiq Khan on knife crime.[25] Inflation is taking place here. When will we see the first 200% true statement?--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:28, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

"Every older person should die with dignity and respect." Should save about 100% of the old age pension bill, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:46, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
And Victoria Derbyshire was 160% sorry after saying this.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:21, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
Ouch. And who's next for Victoria ... Dominic Drab, Michael Grope, or maybe Sajid Rabid? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for 2019 Argentina and Uruguay blackoutEdit

 On 18 June 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article 2019 Argentina and Uruguay blackout, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

Stephen 06:01, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Glastonbury FestivalEdit

In preparation for Glastonbury Festival next week a small project has been set up to try to get pictures for acts appearing who don't have photos (or pics are poor/out of date). A list has been started at Wikipedia:Glastonbury 2019. Are there acts on the line up which need pics but aren't included on the list? In addition there has been some discussion about which acts, who do not have articles, would be considered notable enough (in wp terms) to justify one and should be included on the list as red links. If you had any pointers or could contribute to the list that would be great.— Rod talk 19:48, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Rod. Alas, I will not be attending this year. Langa Methodist Choir looks like it might be a shoo-in to me: [26] Martinevans123 (talk) 19:59, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

How does your mind work?Edit

From the Singing Nun, to Boris Johnson, via Cliff Richard. Just how does your mind work, Mr Evans? CassiantoTalk 22:00, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

A very good question, and I'm so glad you asked me that. My mind used to work. But alas, it's now been replaced with something called a Watchlist. --"Mr Reina Cubanas 1939" (talk) 22:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

June 2019Edit

  Your addition to Kilfinan has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. This is your final warning. Further violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy will result in you being blocked from editing.Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 12:26, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Those seemed to me to be plain facts, using architectural terms, in chronological order, that were very difficult, or even impossible, to re-write without changing their meaning, although I did try my best to re-write it, as much as possible, to avoid copyright violation through direct copying. If anyone is interested, the source material is here. I also hadn't realised that I had been given so many warnings, for this kind of copyright violation already, that I was now due a "final warning" with the threat of a block. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:18, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Glastonbury 2019Edit

The festival has not finished so why did you change it to the past tense before it did? (talk) 21:03, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS. Because the headline acts are now playing. Even if there was a complete power failure..... it has now happened. But sure, let's all enjoy the last glorious 50 minutes of present continuous.... just in case some random reader decides they still want to go. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Of course, even after it's all finished, someone has to clear the mess up. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:33, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Re: Fill your bootsEdit

That post was by Vote X For Change, a banned user whose posts should be deleted on sight. See Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Vote (X) for Change. --Viennese Waltz 13:40, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. You obviously are more used to spotting that anon editor than am I. Unfortunate in a way, as the material they linked to seems perfectly relevant and interesting. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Hello again. I saw your reply on the "fill your boots" thread. Yes, that was Vote X for Change again, so I've deleted his post. I've also had to delete your reply, sorry about that. Best wishes, --Viennese Waltz 15:56, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Happy to see it go. I guess you'll be deleting that IP's other posts? If I repost that useful comment, but under my own name, will I get an indefinite block? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
It's like playing whack-a-mole. I and others try and delete them until an admin blocks his IP (as just happened), but I'm sure many get through. And no, you won't. --Viennese Waltz 16:03, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Good. I don't want to encourage this banned user, of course. But if I re-post it, it will be one less molehill for you to worry about. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:09, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Note: "In 1955 "Mole wrenches" were developed by Thomas Coughtrie (1917–2008), who was at that time managing director of M. K. Mole and Son. The wrenches were manufactured in Newport, Wales, just off the M4, near to the Brynglas Tunnels; travelling west, the Mole sign was visible immediately before entering the tunnels." Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

I appreciateEdit

...your keeping an eye. What do you think so far? EEng 19:59, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, daring to peep through horrified fingers. Poor Eric would be spinning in his wikigrave. If he were dead, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm sure they'd let me know if there's anything they don't see as an improvement, as you have so kindly done. It all seems very straightforward to me. EEng 20:34, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes a virtue-signalling Wiki resignation, under a cloud of disapprobation, can be a real boon. You could always try what you did last time and remove every alternate word? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 5 July 2019 (UTC) p.s. sorry a bit distracted at the moment with the planting of Epimedium × rubrum, in the wildlife garden, with the wonderfully therapeutic Monty Don...
Franz Kafka knew it all. Click cover to insight. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:18, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Maybe so, but I've always found Monty quite uplifting. I think it's the dungarees. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:26, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Aimez-vous Brahms? Warum? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
"Warum ist das Licht gegeben dem Mühseligen?" ..... wahrscheinlich.... Wenn es kein Pech wäre, hätte ich überhaupt kein Glück. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:49, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
User:EEng, a few little cuts can make all the differece. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

still kafkaeque times, but don't miss our music in your place, see more (review pictured) on my talk. Also there, look for trees pictured, and the dedication of images of desire and destruction. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

João GilbertoEdit

Ah, por que estou tão sozinho?
Ah, por que tudo é tão triste?
Ah, a beleza que existe
A beleza que não é só minha
Que também passa sozinha
Farewell João Gilberto: [27]. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:27, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

The DTsEdit

Do you think the Daily Mail is credible on this one? – Sca (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

As far as that story goes, I'd be prepared to lower the bar. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Who's the wackier? – Sca (talk) 12:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Am feelin' Ire, maaaaaan... can ya dig it? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Personal reminiscence timeEdit

Used to have a Philips EL-3302 but it broke and went to landfill many years ago. The battery life wasn't very good and it wouldn't have played music all the way to the Moon and back again. Philips must have made a ton of these because there are still plenty on eBay.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:51, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of that before, but yes, landfill on the moon seems a perfectly good idea to me. One of Donald's best yet, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:20, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Mars is next for waste. Trump said in his July 4th address that "we will plant the American flag on Mars." Softlavender (talk) 09:43, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Thank goodness. Always best to get that pre-emptive strike in first. Maybe he could build a wall around the flag and get the Martians to pay for it? And then, obviously, some ramparts... maybe an airport?? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:49, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Disposing of electrical items is complicated nowadays and the bin men will refuse to take them if they have the WEEE wheelie bin logo ("Sorry, squire, that's more than my job's worth). The Apollo astronauts had the Sony TC-50, maybe these are in a museum somewhere.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:07, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes, getting rid of those old old unwanted electrical appliances can sometimes be a challenge. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
When I go to the Moon, I'm going to take this recording of "Fly Me to The Moon" by Diana Panton.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:09, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Never heard of her before. But I'm guessing that's Don Thompson on the Steinway. How lovely. Beautiful voice Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 8 July 2019 (UTC) .... but if we're going with the moon theme... I'd be happy to settle for Ella singing "How High the Moon".... p.s. after a month of waiting for a straight answer here, you'll have to search for a YT link yourself...
What an amazing voice and sensuous vocal stylist! Thanks so much for sharing that! Softlavender (talk) 10:04, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Let's not forget bom-ba-ba-bom ba-bom-ba-bom-bom dang-a-dang-dang ding-a-dong-ding.... – Sca (talk) 20:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Sca, and I fully agree! Unfortunately, although that video, uploaded to YouTube nine years ago, by user "fabrizio lencioni", which has now had 11,848,298 views, and has no added lyrics or other "user-created content" (apart from a single still image of the band), and has a clear copyright licence statement in the "Music in this video" section, and even gives a credit to the album from which it was copied, it is deemed unacceptable for Wikipedia as it wasn't uploaded from an "official" source. I searched for an alternative and counted over 100 other uploads of various versions sung by the band (some live) i.e. not covers. But none of these were from an "official" source and so also can't be used! Hoorah!! I can't even link to the very good home-made one by The Redeeeers for fear of another future indef block by indef blocked blocked-for-a-year Fram. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
p.s. for anyone insanely bored enough to want to follow my apparently "burning question" about YT video advice see: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs#Lyrics and music videos. Shortly about to close, through lack of interest, it seems. Next stop WP:VPP? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:00, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


linked to wrong week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:00, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi, IP 196. I assume you are referring to your recent here at Jonathan King, yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:03, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes sorry I sent the wrong link to the other editor. (talk) 18:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Um. Your edit summary for that edit was just this "". It's normal to use a source like that to support a claim in the text, not just in the edit summary. But anyway, looking at that source, I see that it shows "Everyone’s Gone To The Moon" was at No 13 and No 19, in the South African singles chart. for the weeks 22 and 29 October 1965. respectively. The following week it went up to No 11 and then 8 and then back down to 19. It was on the chart for a total of six weeks. I think that could be added to the article main body. I'll open a thread to discuss this at Talk:Jonathan King, to keep other editors informed. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
just get wound up when people think uk and usa is the world! i see you corrected it in article. thanks. but you quote about a different song from the link already there as 50! very confusing. (talk) 02:22, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
and just found this to clarify - google is a rabbithole. (talk) 02:31, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
"Everyone's Gone to the Moon" wasn't a huge chart hit all around the world, and there have been attempts to imply this in the past. What matters is that it is one of the best remembered pop hits of the 1960s.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:24, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
i remember it well but then i am getting old. google sent me here below as a number two in new zealand. i found charts in holland and japan too. but it warrants no more of my time - or yours. just repeating that the world is bigger than the uk and usa not that anyone cares. (talk) 15:01, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
The lead section of any article is meant to reflect the article content. If someone could take the time to look at those other charts, and they show that the single was a hit, there is no reason why they could not be added to the article and the lead then adjusted to say it was a "worldwide hit" (although that is a bit hyperbolic). Many thanks for the links, anyway. And I for one certainly do care that "the world is bigger than the uk and usa". Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
According to List of UK top-ten singles in 1965, the best selling single in the UK in 1965 was Tears (Ken Dodd song). The Apollo astronauts didn't show much interest in playing this. Ken Dodd probably sold more records than Jonathan King in the 1960s. How tattyfilarious, missus.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, "Tears for Souvenirs", a teen-weepie classic. A wonderful pop song, it's hard to believe it was written in 1929, but I guess all the best songs are timeless. Dodd had a wonderful voice and many of his other songs show far more depth of expression than this one. I see there are three versions on our sister site YouTube, but safely none that are allowed to be linked here. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Tonight's challenge - is there actually anything by "the Doddfather" on YouTube that could be allowed a link here? I'll save you the bother.... all I could find was Des O'Connor Tonight from 1983. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
"Tears" isn't even Ken Dodd's best single, but it managed to outsell the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Sonny and Cher in 1965. Dodd isn't usually considered a major recording artist today, but he was huge in the 1960s.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
My vote would probably go to "So Deep Is The Night" which made only No. 31 in 1964. Bit of a Walker Brothers sound to it and light but soaring strings, gentle brass touches. Great tenor crooning. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

New articleEdit

Kaiserschmarrn? No, just "Hungarian Circle Trifle". Fill your boots, folks!

Dear Trouper, I am just putting together a new article on Henry Oberlander and the Hungarian Circle. There is somewhat of an ostensible online black hole around this big 1960s/70s bank fraud. People are complaining there is no write up ("it's been disappeared") so I have written one. I would appreciate your thoughts before it's live. I have been rifling newspaper archives. There is a lot there (some contradictory stories from various bods keen to get in on the tale) but mostly before archives were digitised. Most of what I have found is on microfiche. No big biography or true crime book or film has been published yet, but I will bet you £1000 that one will come out in the next five years once someone grabs hold of the full story. It's a Speilberg romp; a Netflix series; one of those that, if I had the backing or the connections, I should make myself. No doubt. Hey ho. Let me know what you think, if you have a mo or two. If I or the article disappear without trace, you will know the conspiracy theories were right and the CIA are hushing things up. I will leave secret signs in the dust. Anna (talk) 23:01, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Haha! I wish you good luck there. Thanks for inviting me, Anna. I'll certainly try and have a look over. If Brad Pitt could consider a dramatization of Rory Stewart's time in Afgan (with Orlando Bloom in the title role), I think you'd certainly stand a good chance with Speilberg over this one!" Martinevans123 (talk) 12:45, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Anna, I've dome a quick initial skim over. Hope that helps. One of your refs, for The Washington Post, seem to be empty. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:01, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Dear Trouper, you are, indeed, Super. A star. Shining like a sun. Thanks so much for your time (esp formatting the refs). I (rather foolishly) overran a 'free' newspaper archive trial period. I would like to share the account with you, if you would find it useful. It's UScentric, but useful nonetheless, full access, and runs for six months. Let me know if you are interested. Anna (talk) 11:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
A mere trifle. The work of moments. Trouble thyself not. (and I'll let you know, thanks). Martinevans123 (talk) 11:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Ha! Not a trifle for me as I don't see very well. Anna (talk) 11:40, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Don't worry, I know the feeling. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:46, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Henry is live. *Feeling giddy*. I'd appreciate eyes on him, crazy fraud that he is. Let's share some celebratory trifle. (I do love trifle). Anna (talk) 11:56, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

"There was some doubt as to his birth name, however, as he was caught with approximately 30 passports in various names and nationalities. His aliases included Evans..." No relation, as far as I know. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah ha! He is not hiding in New york at all, but eating trifle in Wales! Will the real Henry please stand up. (Take the bowl off your knees first). Anna (talk) 12:39, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Hahaha. You look great in that nurse's uniform, Anna. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Your edit on Elon MuskEdit

Hello. I had asked that my edit be discussed on the TP and I am not rv it again for now but I disagree with your edit because I was not calling Musk a magnet in the voice of WP. Not sure what you mean by "unencyclopedic" or trivial there because to me the statement fit perfectly in the section about the Joe Rogan interview. This is a disputed edit and it should be discussed on the TP but if you insist on your change the TP edit request needs to be changed.

Please go to Talk:Elon Musk#Wants to be known also as "a Magnet" and make the appropriate change to edit request. I had it marked as answered. Thanks!TeeVeeed (talk) 13:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi there TeeVeeed. I have corrected the heading of that thread so that it makes sense. But I think Musk's "joke" is pure media trivia that has no place in the article. Are you familiar with WP:BRD? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes I noticed that you corrected the header, and yes I am familiar with BVD, and I think WP:BVD says that my change should have stayed while we hashed it out on TP. In any event, what about the request to adjust the edit request data there? I do not want to fix it myself because I am not the one who DENIED the request, (not yelling at you just trying to make my dilemma noticeable.) I CANNOT fix that because I have a green checkmark and it would not make sense for me to mark it DENIED because I approved it-thanks!TeeVeeed (talk) 14:49, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
WP:BVD? No, WP:BRD. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
You know ~ ~ I used to own a pair of BVD's ~ but I switched to Calvin Kleins yesterday ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 14:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
It seems Elon himself prefers to "go commando". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2019 (UTC) .... I'm reminded of old "Big Uncle Bruce", who used to wear reg grundies fringed with corks
ooops! That fact should really be in the article imo but I am stepping awaaay from it for a bit. It seems there are WP:Ownership issues there.TeeVeeed (talk) 15:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, right. You're "stepping away" by opening an RfC?? Hmmm good luck with that one. I think I've made my views pretty clear over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:54, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
  • You people, and I include all of you here, clearly have too much time on your hands. Softlavender (talk) 00:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Ann WiddicombeEdit

  The BLP Barnstar
for keeping Ann Widdicombe free of spiteful vandalism. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:32, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, we all pull together here! “There’s no I in Widdecombe Team Brexit”, as they say over in Brussels. You know how it is when one is slaving away at Wikipedia. But what a waste…. at the forefront of Muslim equality. If only she’d stuck at it, luvvie. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:31, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Semantic driftEdit

You might be int'd in this piece from Harper's. – Sca (talk) 21:46, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah, only lowly old Harpers. (And I used to love a good thumb through a fresh Harper's and Queen, occasionally). But yes, a very amusing article, thanks. The sort of material that Miss Snodgrass is always using to prove that "Sauce for the goose is (not) sauce for the gander" over at WP:MoS. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
Miss Snodgrass brought it on herself. EEng 22:15, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes, her goose is well and truly cooked. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
You know ~ I once had a goose ~mitch~ (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) – I once had a goose for a neighbour. It was very cute when small, and vicious and scary when larger. I am just saying this, albeit for no good reason. Sorry. Helga the Little Goose Girl (not really) (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)


  Yo Marty, how are you doing. Lets start with a tea. I was curious to know what your thoughts are on this turn of events. I have not heard assuring things about Boris, but that might be propaganda, who knows. DBigXray 12:29, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Hah. A country electing some populist clown to be their leader? Thank goodness that could never happen here in the UK. But then it wasn't the country, was it. That's electoral democracy for you.... quick everyone back on the bus! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes. It's pure socialist propaganda, all that stuff. He's actually going to be all lovely, selfless, strong, stable, a bit of a genius too. And he has great hair. There is almost literally almost nothing here to to almost not like, or I am almost not literally the Mayor of Maastricht (talk) 12:56, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, I'm sure the country's children will soon be singing his praises with that quaint old British nursery rhyme "Oranges and Lemons." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:01, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
LoL, appears that what I heard is indeed accurate. But to be honest, my level of respect for him has suddenly increased after I read about the number of votes he got today. we can call him clown or whatever, but the man did have a plan to be PM and boy did he realize it, well almost. It seems to be an age of clowns and there is always a bigger one.--DBigXray 13:49, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
It's great to see Jeremy properly dressed for once. I'm reminded of that scene in Love and Death: "Do they all have these horns?' 'No, that's the Russian Jew, the German Jews have these stripes." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Her Majesty reacts. – Sca (talk) 16:33, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Can't say I blame her. Let's hope they've got a few Land Rover Discoverys lined up for Philip. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:53, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Oh my goodness. Congrats to "Special Adviser" Dave-"On-The-Buses"-Cummings.... who saw that one coming? Did someone mention Lord Snooty and his Pals?? But great to see we have a new fresh-faced Leader of the House: [28]. Any advance on six months? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
You know I know a "dave" that tours on a bus. Here is a home movie we shot while in Scotland ~ (thats close to the UK) ~ Dave in Scotland~ ~mitch~ (talk) 22:08, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Bob Einstein? obviously a sad loss earlier this year. As the great Fuji says there: "we go on a bus tour... all over country.. to make a-people happy!!". Yes, it is close, but a bit too close, apparently. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Well I didn't know if you people on the other side of the Atlantic ever heard of bob ~ it's good to know someone ~ (close to Scotland) ~ thanks ~mitch~ (talk) 22:51, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes Nichola's wee favourite? ... Scottish cuisine at its finest. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:07, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
"Hello Dave? Is that Dave??" We have our own far more disturbing political nightmare version, currently playing out, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:57, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Thats horrible ~ I was more scared of the one behind the knocker dressed as a woman ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 23:04, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
"I've got nothing against you "Travelling people", but I just don't want my palm read..." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:11, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Well you know ~ usually when we get our palms red ~ it comes from very hard and laborious work ~ digging holes in the ground for Generation X to cover us up at a later date ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 23:34, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Generation X? Well yes, something like that. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:54, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

First glorious day at the dispatch box!! It makes one proud to live in a country where the elected assembly looks like a cross between an Eton College dorm fight and feeding time at the zoo. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Bryan MageeEdit

 On 27 July 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Bryan Magee, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

SpencerT•C 21:46, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Spencer. Not a single glimmer of a BBC news report on Magee's passing. That's a shame. A great many of his BBC television programmes (most quite poor technical quality), are available on YouTube; but we can't link to any of them at the article, or even here, as they are not from "an official source" i.e. the BBC. Perhaps they've all be sold to "Philosophy Overdose"? So here, instead, in honour of Bryan Magee, is Wagner's Lohengrin Prelude performed and realized on synthesizers by Giorgio Costantini [it]. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:18, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

No reasonEdit

[29]. Ceoil (talk) 14:00, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Ooh. Many thanks. The only track recorded at Graveyard Studios, Prestwich, which was apparently on Church Lane near to the Church pub. A Certain Ratio recorded the studio half of The Graveyard and the Ballroom there, it seems. I can only assume that is an official source. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Sorry to be a such a depressing bastard on a Sunday afternoon, but its raining here and I hear ye have a heatwave, ye feckers. First Brexit now this.[30] Ceoil (talk) 14:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
It's all gone a bit damp and cool actually. Yes, she certainly did lose it. I've always been partial to the version by old flat top which was the B-side to "Private Life" (a few versions available on YT). Martinevans123 (talk) 14:19, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Old flat top? Old rotten hat. I always think listening to early demos and live versions, that Barnie and Hook had a point about Hannet's production; but in the end it did dampen the dynamics, but was next level amazing. Ceoil (talk) 14:30, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Am a fan for life. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:33, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Snap. I presume you know Gorky's Zygotic Mynci's take on English pastoralism (cant find link!) Ceoil (talk) 15:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, originally David's on piano. Happy to see that Caravan are playing Cropredy this year. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
"David's on piano" is one of the most simple, spine chilling lyrics of all time, from a song that just reps with connection to the listener (sentimental crap...passing fad). Caravan do it for me, but re Wyatt, not that I'm an auld red card holding commie or anything. Fessing up to never having heard "Private Life" before, so thanks for that. Ceoil (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Seriously though, damn fine alliterationEdit

Your latest contribution to the Humanities is priceless, and I hope you get away with it, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:19, July 28, 2019 (UTC)

Ooh, yes I do hope so. I don't want to be holed up at Leatherslade Farm for five days playing Monopoly. I guess we could always take a vote? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:07, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
'ere, Indelible, me ol' china... I 'ad that Hugh Manantees in the back of me Amazon-delivery cab the uvver nite... an' a rite bit Snooty 'e was, an' all... Martinevans123 (talk) 12:25, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
I mentioned a manatee in a Humanities edit summary today. To that extent, now you're speaking my language! I don't know nothin' 'bout no Snooty, though, I swear. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, July 30, 2019 (UTC)
Snooty but not Snooty? I'm feeling very slightly disappointed ... DBaK (talk) 12:35, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, he's currently away, north of the border, visiting Skinny Lizzie and Gertie the Goat. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:53, 29 July 2019 (UTC)


Hi M. Re the goings on at Albert Finney's article that person is obsessed with adding a list of films that Finney was not in. Just last week they had a night of his films on TCM and mentioned (as all legit sources do) that The Entertainer (film) (1960) was his film debut. I think the "TCM Filmog" the person uses is just a made up item. Here is the actual TCM page and none of the films the IP adds are on it. An RFPP might be the next step. I'm guessing you knew some or all of this but I'm mentioning it because I am going to be on vacation (the first one in years - yippee) this weekend and would appreciate you keeping an eye on Albert's article. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 17:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, that now seems to make sense. I was at first thrown by what seemed to be the addition of two new sources, which I later saw were empty. I guess the size of that addition was a bit of a giveaway. Strangely they have made edits since which appear to be correct. Hope your vacation is great, wherever it is! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:09, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
The motivations of editors who make both useful and nonsense edits will probably be the focus of a doctoral thesis one day - if it hasn't been already that is :-) Excellent choice for your link. A fine film and another in a long line of Finney gems. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:07, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Too true. This place has really gone to Helena Bonham Carter. There'll always be an EEngland! (talk)
Have always been quite partial to the Ricky Nelson version (Decca ‎– 31533, 1963), with that nice twangy guitar solo. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:24, 30 July 2019 (UTC)


That reference was being used to cite the fact that he was born in Marseille. Somehow when the article was expanded the ref got moved to the bit about him growing up in South Africa, where it is indeed useless because SA isn't mentioned.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:09, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. I do wish folks wouldn't go fiddling about expanding stuff. Neat little articles can get into such a mess. If I find out who was responsible, I will severely reprimand them! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:23, 2 August 2019 (UTC) p.s. "Ich bin ein Berlinser", as they say in Provence.
Well, yes "somehow" was just me being polite :) I used to read and enjoy Berlins' Guardian columns many years ago but had completely forgotten about him until you made that nomination. Might go check out his archive now.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:38, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
I used to enjoy him on Law in Action and always thought Rozenburg was a ruffian upstart by comparison. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:41, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Fat fingered idiocyEdit

"Go spin dude" (as they say in America, I believe)

Sorry about that. The title explains it all.... - SchroCat (talk) 10:06, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

'Sno biggie. Chill thy fat beans, Schro. Could be worse. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
No biggie? I dont think so. The edit was an disgrace to the eyes of any right thinking, upstanding, saint, whose copy book, like mine, is immaculate. Please resign from your unpaid volunteer work here. ps, [31]. Ceoil (talk) 22:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
You may find the finger-breadth reduction exercise (illustrated right) a useful technique. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Marcel BerlinsEdit

 On 4 August 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Marcel Berlins, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

SpencerT•C 23:04, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind if I wait 2 and a half days to thank you. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:05, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Who’s WhoEdit

Hey, Martin - is the book, Who's Who of British Jazz: 2nd Edition a reliale source or is it like the Who's Who books in America where you pay to be included? [32] I'm reviewing Draft:Tony Russell and not seeing enough coverage in RS to pass the biography. Would appreciate your thoughts. Atsme Talk 📧 12:56, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Atsme. I would always treat that book, with such a reputable editor and publisher, as entirely reliable. But I have to admit that I can't remember ever using it for any article. You may want to get confirmation from someone like User:EddieHugh, who is a bit of an expert in this area. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Here's some info from the preface, on the entry criteria: "The emphasis is on musicians who work professionally (or who did so in the past)" ... "Brief histories of a number of pioneering local jazz bands are included but it is not practical to detail all of the vast number of semi-professional jazz groups". And on how the information was collected: "Whenever feasible I have ascertained dates by referring to contemporary newspapers and magazines. This has not always been possible and even the most helpful musician cannot always provide an exact sequence of events" ... "Enormous thanks to ... all those musicians who took the time and trouble to check their entries and to offer additional information".
My conclusion: with the caveat that some of the information in the book might be supplied by the subject, it's an RS for our purposes. The same caveat probably applies to even basic 'facts' for all but the most researched biographies – even Louis Armstrong's true dob wasn't discovered until years after his death, so it's just an aside. As Martinevans123 says, the author and publisher are both well known; it's extremely unlikely that they accepted payment for entry (in any case, there's not much cachet in being included in this book – it's for aficionados). EddieHugh (talk) 17:59, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks Eddie, for your very useful comments. I though you might say something like that! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:01, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
No problem... I just checked... Tony Russell is listed as having died in 1970, which was more than 20 years before the first edition of the book was published. So it's safe to assume independence from the subject! EddieHugh (talk) 18:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Even a trombonist wouldn't pay that far in advance, would they? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:07, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The HendreEdit

Hi there. The full correct name of the golf club includes the "The", hence my inclusion in bolding the name, however the existing redirect does not. I have submitted a request earlier today at WP:AFC/R for the creation of a new redirect for this however there seems to be a (large) backlog. Perhaps you could help by creating it? Thanks. (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi there. Many thanks for submitting your request. I was wholly unaware of that. I don't see why two redirects would not be possible, although I'm also unsure which might the most used. Yes, that might well be the "full correct name" that the club chooses to call itself. But Wikipedia does have its own Manual of Style, which often differs from commercial, or even conventional, usage. I wasn't sure of your rationale for removing the Golf Club Category. Why was that? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm aware of the MOS and think this one may be more of an anomaly than most, but wouldn't argue about keeping/dropping the The. I removed the category from the parent as I had added it to the redirect so that "Rolls of Monmouth Golf Club" is listed there instead, since that is what would be more expected. (talk) 20:50, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
I think the Category:Golf clubs and courses in Wales should remain as that's what it currently is? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Currently both parent and redirect appear in the category, so there's duplication. Also The Hendre does not really refer to the golf club/course so I think it does look somewhat out of place in that category. (talk) 21:06, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Happy to get other views at Talk:The Hendre. By all means open a thread there. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Emily TaylorEdit

In general I see the lead as a place to say briefly what a page is about, with the details following it in separate subtitled sections. Others seem to disagree, though. Please do what you think best. Bmcln1 (talk) 21:59, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Well the lead is meant to summarise the article. Not have any unique material? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Well my feeling is that "He drowned his mother in a creek.", so to speak, would go in the lead, and the details of that awful act would come later (distressed childhood, water tasted bad for a week, etc.) Here we have a statement that ET wrote children's books, and the books themselves detailed later, but Beatrix Potter has The Tale of Peter Rabbit in the lead, as it's the most famous one, and the others later. I'm afraid none of Emily's children books are widely read any more, although she has other claims to fame as a writer. Bmcln1 (talk) 22:45, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Our BiddyEdit

It was I who removed this material. At that point they were unreferenced and needed to be removed according the BLP. However, I should have checked the (only) reference provided more closely - as you rightly say, it provides a source for these other comments about BB which I hastily removed. It's a shame that I can't corroborate the comments from John Noakes elsewhere (I would consider The Independent as a slightly weak source on its own), but The Telegraph reports Peter Purves' comments about BB: 'She could be very difficult and she caused angst amongst all of us at various times, but she did a brilliant job.' so that's a better source which already exists in the article. [We both know that The Telegraph is in thrall to its advertisers, particularly HSBC and really doesn't deserve the appellation 'Newspaper of Recored', but that's a different story.]

I should have checked the provided reference more carefully before deleting, and moved the citation so it referred to all the relevant comments. Thanks for pointing this out.

Did you also make a comment about Barbara Plett User? I think it was you... Thanks Fortnum (talk) 13:17, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it was me. I think you should go ahead and make that move for Barbara. But I think it's Usher, lol. Many thanks for your note re Baxter. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
lol - 'User'makes her a different proposition altogether. Glad you agree about her though - it's a peculiarly Wikipedia thing I think: the refusal to call someone by the name they themselves have chosen. Thanks Fortnum (talk) 20:40, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm sure we'd all welcome Biddy's input. "... And here's one I made earlier." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[33]

Mr. Evans, LlangollenEdit

Relative of yours?

Whenish will you be backish? – Sca (talk) 16:31, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Good Lord! It's great-great-great Uncle Oakes, a.k.a. Dublin's very own wonderful "King of Spades", a.k.a. Philip Parris Lynott. Sorry, am currently too busy promoting Estonian Kickboxing. But fret ye not, I'll be backish... if only to get that rouge Admin "Sarah Connor" finally indeffed. Indefinitely yours, Eric Hornilons (talk) 20:53, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Hey dude!Edit

Are you, like, OK, man? (That was my Caring Hippie persona – I hope you liked it.) Best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:34, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

As that great deadbeat poet Dylan might have said, "Chill thy contraflow bean, guys". Don't worry, DBAK. Just checked myself in for a month or two at the notorious Betty Ford Clinic for Incurable Remoaners. "Godspeed ye Saint Boris", up-yours-Delors, Huw Mongoose 123 (talk) 21:06, 2 October 2019 (UTC) "No marigolds in the promised land, There'll be a hole in the ground where they used to grow"
Lovely to see you backish! Don't miss my talk today, Jessyeish. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
So very pleased that she appears on the Main Page. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
She appears there, after 117k views before already, and poor Günter Kunert didn't because I was too slow improving. Life is not fair ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, is that a deliberate Herbie/Der Weg reference (Das Leben ist nicht fair) or just One Of Those Things? DBaK (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Not deliberate but would have been good, Mensch and peaceful revolution on our national holiday. Siegfried today! Did you know that the peaceful change for infobox opera happened on Talk:Siegfried (opera), in 2013, and hasn't been archived? One of my favourite talks, did you know, Worm That Turned? Or did the arbs never look at educated exchange of thoughts between the key parties of the alleged infobox wars then? - Best wishes, Martin! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Martin, I am delighted to see you dropping in, or indeed dropping out, here. I do hope the clinic is going well – how is Betty these days? I am – of course – loving the links. See you around, cheers, DBaK (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Well, ya know... as they say over in Cracker land, ... "Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out ... (give up) with me".... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 6 October 2019 (UTC) ... Betty sends her love.

Jesus, where have you been?Edit

You had us worried. EEng 06:05, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Oy vay! Ah, ya know, I’ve stepped in the middle of seven sad forests, etc. etc.. I think they call it "a working sabattical". Yours, eternally ship-wrecked, Man Friday 123 (talk) 07:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)


In the current Private Eye.[34]--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:57, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, regrets... seems like the Old Bill has a few of those too. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:41, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
But, did you know (I didn't until doing a web search) that the cartoon isn't fictional?[35]--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:48, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
Owch. Some serious airbrushing needed there. Not sure I'd want Ian Watkins anywhere near my thighs, thanks very much. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:54, 4 October 2019 (UTC) p.s. note the habitual Welsh spelling there.
I wonder if the cartoonist Tim Cordell saw the above mentioned article. He has used exactly the same "Now then, now then" tattoo of Savile. Seems like more than a coincidence.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:58, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
New to me, he's quite good, isn't he! No, It's Never Too Much Fun For James. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:23, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Your missionEdit

Good grief, I was afraid it would take some Baksheesh to get you backish. Now get busy & step up to the plate. – Sca (talk) 12:42, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Well, I was hoping for something a little more exotic. I must admit, over at ITN, things do tend to get a bit dizzy. Ali-(Um)-Bongo123-3-3-3-3 (talk) 17:48, 5 October 2019 (UTC) [36]
You could do GA reviews ;) - I had hoped for one for Jessye Norman while on the Main page but the below pushed her off ;) - well, 4 days was a lot, can't complain. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:03, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Well, I guess I could. Jessye's Sieglinde, was probably stronger than Peter's. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
They played her "Hehrestes Wunder" tonight, which made you believe a miracle happened even on radio. Sieglinde introduces the theme which brings the whole thing to a utopia close. Tomorrow! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Wow. There's a James Levine Met clip on YT. Just stunning. "Herrlichste Maid!!" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:14, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Thank your for copyediting the image alts for Clara S. Could you please also go over the wording, - I don't have vocabulary for hair styles and dresses from the 19th century. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:18, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
I have a feeling you’ve come to the right place. EEng 11:20, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Ooooh, worra bitch! "I can see by what you carry that you come from.... Barrytown." Martinevans123 (talk) 12:06, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Peter SissonsEdit

 On 5 October 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Peter Sissons, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:24, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks so much, Amakuru. It really was just a very small tidy up. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Ginger BakerEdit

 On 6 October 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Ginger Baker, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:09, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, MSGJ. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
My jumpers for goal posts were old plastic drums for toms and knitting needles for sticks. Those were happy days. Ceoil (talk) 21:13, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Ron would be so proud of you. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Nice to see another serious music head back and about, bty. There are not many people I can have a stand up argument with over the finer posints of Nick Drake. Ceoil (talk) 01:34, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Martin! I heard the news (and some music) on radio travelling, and it's so lovely to see it all done on arrival, not having to dig up refs for another great soul who left us music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

listen! (looks official enough to me) - I had the great pleasure to just have heard his debut in Germany (well, second performance after the premiere last Sunday) and can't believe he has no article, but that will soon change. His Manon - of course - has one. Emotions high! Don't miss that video ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

[37] has been on my heavy rotation for most of the week. We all know a lot of people who have died, but its not something rock music has ever been good at addressing in the mainstream, a few recent Bob Dylan records excepted. Anyway, Jim Carroll does it for me, and its nice to see Reed play second fiddle for once...much as I love him, he was an attention screaming f**ker. Ceoil (talk) 22:18, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
ps how evokative is it to look back and see Robert Quine rocking out in the vid from this distance, the man was a god. Ceoil (talk) 22:29, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, Quine sure knew how to rock out. He had some hot licks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:40, 12 October 2019 (UTC) the fun begins at 2:02
Quine's finest moment [38] Ceoil (talk) 23:05, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Japan 28 - 21 ScotlandEdit

Never mind Scotland. What an incredible match. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Oh dear. Spare a thought for Joe and Rory. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:14, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Oooooo, now that was tight. Seems Wales have managed to elbow their way into the semi-finals. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:13, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Owch, 3-26... Martinevans123 (talk) 12:21, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Tangerine DreamEdit

Are a guilty pleasure, as are Swoon era Prefab Sprout. No way will I admit to liking these band on my talk page. Ceoil (talk) 18:23, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Haha, yes I know exactly what you mean. Can were always cool. But Phaedra was an utter revelation to me, thanks to that nice Mr Ravenscroft, and Old Beardie, of course. But then I started looking and discovered that music could actually be much weirder. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:28, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
I used to get stoned to Alpha Centauri when much younger and hashish and mushrooms ruled my musical taste. For out and out weirdness, always liked[39], who make pink floyd look like catholic priests. Ceoil (talk) 18:33, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Haha, yes. Those were the daze. If only I could remember them. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:39, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Lucky me that I married a Delia Derbyshire type. Not sure what type she married...prob ...just...nerd.Ceoil (talk) 18:45, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Poor woman. Wasn't she trapped inside a Dalek for 20 years or something? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:48, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
No Idea, bbc was illegal in 80s Ireland. so that dr who stuff its meaningless to me. But however BBC workshop output is AMAZING, maybe except for ther very early (1950s) synth drones Ceoil (talk) 19:10, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
I've always enjoyed the story of the byplay between Ron and Delia “Did I really write this?”, an amazed Grainer inquired after first hearing her version of his most famous melody, with Derbyshire answering the question, “Most of it.” :-) Enjoy your weekend C&M. MarnetteD|Talk 18:58, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, MarnetteD! Just off for my weekly therapy session with Uncle Monty. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
You are welcome M! MarnetteD|Talk 19:09, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Checking out Phaedra now Martin. Ceoil (talk) 19:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm as po-faced and year zero punk rock as the rest of them, but this hits, somewhat uncomfortably, home. The interviewee looks and sounds frighteningly like a younger brother (and version) of [cough]. ([40]. 02:31, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Yay!! Bring it on, Donald Tusk.... Brenda from Bristol 123 (talk) 21:20, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
"Get up in the morning, slaving for Brexit,
So that every poll can be fed...
Poor, poor me, Remain-a-lites."
(leave means "leave it out, mate!")

Thank youEdit

... with thanks from QAI

... for comments towards article improvement in Ritchie's case, - nice to be not alone. I typed a lot on my talk this morning, ending on "should be unblocked", - and then found out he was ;) - "don't believe in miracles, rely on them" (Mascha Kaléko). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:27, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Aww. You are very welcome. That takes me back to Colin Blunstone in 1972 (Epic EPC8434, UK #31). Martinevans123 (talk) 13:12, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Today, I am proud of a Márta on the Main page, finally! - Here's my ideal candidate for arbcom. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:09, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


Martin, thank you for your wholly ludicrous and totally welcome response to my OMG Sad Git Moment™ thing, which cheered me up very considerably, you b*st*rd! I particularly enjoyed reading, or rather looking at, User behavior analytics. I can see lots of words there and if I really concentrate I can make some of them mean some things – albeit mostly the short words like "and", "but", "Marmite", "valve oil", "mute" etc. I see other words there also but they mean to me not much eek wordthing malfunction malfunction beep beep explode. So I'm, like, thanks dude. DBaK (talk) 18:15, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I must admit I had rather skipped over petabytes, SIEM and Network behavior anomaly detection.... But I'm pretty sure I do get Advanced persistent threats all the time at this damned place! Lol .... and they have the cheek to call Brexit ""Purge-a-Tory"?!! Mad Monster Party 123 (talk) 18:29, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

The Grays zoneEdit

Interesting precedent: 2000 Dover incident.
I swear I ran a search of the Grays article for "Chin" before I added my apparently belated comment, now deleted. – Sca (talk) 12:44, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

As far as the organized crime behind human trafficking is concerned, one wonders how many cases never get discovered, with the dead bodies quietly disposed of. (And no jokes about the tip of the iceberg) Martinevans123 (talk) 14:03, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Well, it was a refrigerated container, wasn't it? I've been wondering whether the 39 were actually frozen, but that seems to have been media speculation. – Sca (talk) 12:50, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Oddly enough, the Grays story isn't in any other European Wikis' versions of ITN. – Sca (talk) 13:08, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Marty Feldman articleEdit

Thanks for your edits. Though in 13 years, I've never before joked on WP, I couldn't help but to add the last line. 21:45, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

What a waste. But you have by deep respect. I can only offer 12. "I should be glad...." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 24 October 2019 (UTC) ....after only 13 years, you must learn to sign properly!, lol


I think for a certain generation, back in the late 70s, this defined integrity. Things have changed though, right is the new working class left and all that mind bending brexit/trump bollocks, I still listen to a lot Billy Brag albums and interviews, but. ps if its not obvious, I am deeply into Robert Wyatt.Its interesting thoughn how things have changed, back in my day the CIA was known for for its support of Regan re central america, so we had Dead Kennedys; now the CIA are heroes - whistle blowers and bastions of institutional American integrity. Go figure. Ceoil (talk) 12:20, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

I know Brag and Dead Kennedys tried to take down the artist/audience thing, buit still, not better than these guys[41], whose public image is normally quite fearsome. See also [42]. Ceoil (talk) 14:07, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
Rock Bottom and Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard two of my all time favourite records ever. Both just masterpieces, in my opinion. Timeless. That 2006 BBC Four recording of Gharbzadegi (might just also be on YT) is slightly beyond a masterpiece. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I agree. A major point for me is the inquiring, broad musical taste, and uplifting good humour for a man who has been through some pretty dire times. I know the song "Gharbzadegi" very well, usually have heard early on Sunday mornings; ie late during the night before, alas have been unable yet to track down the BBC4 versions you recommend. On-it though, may god help me. Ceoil (talk) 21:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
That live version, from BBC Four's Free Will and Testament (2003), with Larry Stabbins on sax, Janette Mason on piano, Steve Lamb on bass, Harry Beckett on trumpet, Liam Genockey on drums, Ian Maidman on vocals and guitar.... is not copyright free alas, although still utterly brilliant. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:38, 28 October 2019 (UTC) p.s. clue: search for "Robert Wyatt performing "Gharbadzegi" lol
Another favourite - "And thought each little song, Was less than three minutes long, Mike squeezed a solo in somehow". Dry af. Ceoil (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Found it, cheers Ceoil (talk) 21:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

If it had not been for Wyatt, I would never have heard the brilliant Dudu Pukwana and Mongezi Feza and all that other wonderful South African stuff. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:56, 28 October 2019 (UTC) clue: search for "Dudu Pukwana - Mongezi Feza : Sonia" lol
Not really my thing Martin. I'm about drums and bass at heart, sill looking for Afro-Rock re Ginger Baker in Lagos 1971 type stuff. Here is the electronic version, imm[43]. Ceoil (talk) 22:07, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
That's pretty good. Ah yes, drums..... [44] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:14, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
I am pretty, pretty, impressed, listening, nice one. 22:25, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
Also 10cc, and esp Godley & Creme had pop nailed. Ceoil (talk) 03:53, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Indeed. Enough to make a grown man... cry. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:54, 29 October 2019 (UTC)... and I still remember feeling quite stunned by that video, back in 1985.


  The almighty rule book trumps logic again. – Sca (talk) 14:34, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes. That comes as little surprise! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:45, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

All Time Top 1000 AlbumsEdit

Dear Martinevans Thank you also, much appreciated -- just showing my ignorance, but you are quite right in putting the book in Itals -- I just did not know how to do it! Any reinstating of the deleted 130 Album Edits would be appreciated -- I dare not put them back for fear of being blocked by MrOllie who seems to be a law to himself!

He has now deleted the chat and has not answered my last communication so I am now at a loss what to do -- but it feels good too have support from JG66 and Rlendog though. RegardsMuso805 (talk) 19:06, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

discussion with another editor
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

copy of last talk to MrOllie

Would you please respond to my requests. If your reason for not responding is because of the word vandal, then I will take it back, but I am not going to allow you to make over 100 deletes without having some kind of discussion and arbitration from other Editors. I think what you have done was hasty and you are misinformed about the "citations to research published by a small group of researchers". This book was from the then largest poll of votes (as stated on the cover of the third edition). This book is cited on Wiki many many times over many years. The last book was out in 2000. My main reason for adding reference to this book is to get a fair balance between the Rolling Stone Top 500 and Larkin's Top 1000. There is also many references to 1001 Albums To Listen To before You die -- this book is a collection of albums from a small team of writer/researchers - maybe you are getting Larkin's book mixed up? His book is highly regarded and I think it is important to get the balance right between the USA (Rolling Stone 500) and the UK (Larkin's Book). After all the Rolling Stone book was from writers only -- Larkin's book was a much bigger base of people, including writers, musicians and most importantly the fans like myself. Please enter into sensible dialogue as I hope you will see that what you have done is simply not fairMuso805 (talk) 09:30, 29 October 2019 (UTC). PS I have just seen from the cover of the 3rd Edition it states "Over 200,000 votes from the fans, the experts and the critics". That I hope you will agree is not as you state "your primary purpose on Wikipedia is to add citations to research published by a small group of researchers".

Thanks for the info, Muso805. You may need to take your "discussions" with that other editor to an appropriate noticeboard. No-one can be "a law to himself" at Wikipedia. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:19, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Muso805 (talk) 13:15, 4 November 2019 (UTC)Martinevans123 and Rlendog -- I am also so sorry to trouble you, but JG66 has suggested further opinion from you and Rlendog - if you have time see the following. I don't want to stir it up again, nor do I want to break any rules. "paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep" (Stephen Stills)

JG66, so sorry to trouble you again but your experience and advice would be welcome. Just when I thought this was done and dusted I received a note from Swarm saying:

JG66 is warned for personal attacks and edit warring. Beyond that, from what I can see, the merits of the source in question is a legitimate content dispute, not to be authoritatively decided here but by dispute resolution and consensus at a centralized location. Neither party acted in bad faith, and there's really no purpose in continuing to draw out the dispute here. The fact that this thread has continued to degenerate into shaming and bullying is particularly unsettling, and I doubt there is any good will left on either side after the egregious behavior we've had the misfortune of witnessing. Who's more "right" in the dispute is irrelevant to this board—both editors are warned against continued systematic mass editing until the dispute has been resolved in some way, and JG is warned against continued combative conduct, and if any of it continues on either side, blocking is the next step. But beyond that, keep this dispute on the content side. It's unlikely that there is any remaining good will between these editors, and the hostility and aggression is to blame, not the existence of a dispute to begin with. ~Swarm~ {sting} 00:24, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

From what he says (Swarm) can I just forget it and carry on editing as Jehochman stated or is this the equivalent of it being passed to the supreme court. Its all a bit silly -- especially the slap on the wrists you were given this is power posturing at its worst - - lordy lordy, I really cannot be arsed with going now to a 'dispute resolution' -- surely not? Muso805 (talk) 09:49, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Well, whoever Swarm is, they seem to have chosen to override Jehochman (power posturing? – could be), specifically the latter's comment: "I am not an expert on music topics, but if people who know the field think this source is good, it's fine to use it. I am satisfied with the explanations provided." Some admins are just fantastic, in my experience; so much so that, when editing articles, it can be a complete surprise to discover they're admins at all. But the ones who don't edit articles, who simply administrate the whole time, well ... Muso, can I suggest you take this to either Rlendog's or Martinevans123's talk page? My feeling, as it has been from the start, is that the book's absolutely fine and indeed better than so many sources that have long appeared in album articles. Others who weighed in about this at the AN/I supported that view, at least in part, and Jehochman seemed fine with it as a result. I just don't want to lead you astray by saying (again) "Yes, go for it", and you'll no doubt receive less emotive comments from Rlendog and Martin. As you stated early on at AN/I, Rlendog has undone loads of the reverts, yet that too seems to have been overlooked in Swarm's decree. JG66 (talk) 12:46, 4 November 2019 (UTC)Muso805 (talk) 13:15, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure if my suggestion that you were owed an apology constitutes "shaming". But that question aside, I guess a good place to start might be to ask about the source at WP:RSN. If all interested parties are explicitly asked to offer a opinion, then "dispute resolution" might be needed only if there was any disagreement? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Goud moaningEdit

Goud moaning Marton. Goud nose. The B.B.G reparts Heavy farting in Nort Africa and I was kopt awoke by the soond if stroong bumming on the chinnel cost all nit. The ollies are whining the ware. Simon Adler (talk) 03:56, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
Ha, zo! Zat is all very interestink. Yours, The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies 123 (talk) 09:09, 2 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. could I possibly offer you a piece of my sister Dolly's upside-down cake??
Ohh Réne! Simon Adler (talk) 04:44, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Ohh Yvette! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:11, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Is this to do with the new coach pf Bayern Munich? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:18, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

If only I knew. For all I know, it could be about that other "Hansi". Martinevans123 (talk) 14:23, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I jyst love that Bayern appointed Herr Flick. Wonder if he has a secretary called Helga? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:26, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

These football managers never last very long. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 4 November 2019 (UTC)


Hi, I've just moved User talk:Martinevans123/Archive 14 out of mainspace. Leaving it for you to integrate into your archive navigation box at the top, or to re-arrange as needed. – Uanfala (talk) 20:15, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. Not sure how that happened. Nor how you managed to spot it so quickly. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:37, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Fairport Clean UpEdit

Martin, your help please. There is a mess on the Fairport - What We Did On Our Holidays - review section. I tried to clean it up but have made it worse. Hands up - my skills still need some sharpening. Ideally I wanted to revert it to how it was before the change yesterday morning. If you have time or inclination could you add your fairy dust?Muso805 (talk) 10:00, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi Muso. Thanks for dropping by. I'll certainly try and have a look. Oi!!! Who are you calling a fairy?? And here's an interview that deserves to be added to Richard's article. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:11, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Blimey Martin!, what took you so long to do it! But thanks anyway.Muso805 (talk) 10:21, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I saw them again in August this year and was very thrilled by this guy who played a totally barnstorming set. Playing better than ever. Just wonderful. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:26, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Also - I won't dare put it back in case I am breaking rules - but did you mean to remove the All Time Top 1000 link i reinstated on 4th November after the earlier mass wipeout?Muso805 (talk) 10:29, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

I reverted back to the 15:24, 28 October 2019‎ version as a baseline, with apologies to User:Ronaldo1948. We all now know that the All Time Top 1000 is a very good WP:RS, so please re-add at your leisure, skillset permitting. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the link - wonderful stuff!Muso805 (talk) 10:33, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Caravan, Seth Lakeman, Richard Thompson and Martin Simpson were also highlights for me. But I managed to avoid the Frank Turner moshpit! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:38, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Gotcha, will do now I know it's safe! (is it safe?, is it safe?, is it safe? Come on now what movie?)Muso805 (talk) 10:37, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

You oughta know that it's never safe at Wikipedia. It's just an endless marathon. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Most Impressed you got that one! And thanks for reminder, I'm just digging out Martin Simpson's great cover of Blues Run The GameMuso805 (talk) 11:04, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

.... and just in case you'd forgotten how hair looked in the's good old "Professor" Magnus in that wonderfully PC Thomas Dolby video.... "Good Heavens Miss Sakamoto, you're beautiful!". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:23, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, but Howard Jones runs him a close second?Muso805 (talk) 12:50, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

How very true. "What Is Hairspray, anyway?" Martinevans123 (talk) 12:55, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Ronaldo 1948: No worries re the reversion, I have re-added what I had inserted about the various variations in cover artwork. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronaldo1948 (talkcontribs) 21:52, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

"Emma-Emma Thynn... gonna write your name high up on that wheelie bin." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 9 November 2019 (UTC)


I'm not sure its your thing, but I see this as built from knives, and almost an art object; so ruthlessly focused and stripped down it could hang in the Met. The band are seriously under appreciated. ps and not unrelated Ginger interviewed by someone who understands what he is talking about. He seems genuinely flattered when when asked to play some of the rudiments he must have spent years practicing. Ceoil (talk) 22:54, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, London's answer to real music. But I know exactly what you mean. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 10 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. I've never actually discovered but..... what exactly are ""PR shoes"?
p.p.s. yes, what a wonderful interview.
Waiting for the man is a good comparison to wire. That recording and vocal is tight as fk, and though I've heard it about a billion times, its still fresh never ceases to amaze; the bass line is *just*. To stretch the art history analogy, Soft Machine are barogue, ginger is early-modernism, the velves are picasso, and wire were Black Circle. Ceoil (talk) 23:18, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
pps; pr shoes are late 60S pimp wear. As were big straw hats. I think the point is that the dude was not a junky and intimidating...fashionably decked out and flush with cash. Visually, I think this captures the scene. Obviously Mick was hugely influenced by Lou. I like the stones vid especially because its full of colour, while the Velves were always shot in black and white. Ceoil (talk) 23:25, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
Haha, that's just Mick's sunny day-glo white-jeans stroll down St. Mark's Place to see a drinkin' buddy friend! The mental image I've always carried of "I'm Waiting for the Man" has been far darker and dirtier. More of a nightmare, really. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. but that Sonny Rollins solo may still be the finest piece of sax in rock music. p.p.s. and thanks for the shoe info, we obviously need an article for Pimp wear of the 1960s....
I get the same buzz from [45], and yes I know it is all very deliberate and stage managed, with low charisma to us plebs etc, but jasus, that some electricity boy. Ceoil (talk) 00:01, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Not sure Martin if your taste goes this far, but [46], is perhaps the best of the 90s, as smashie, or nicey!! might say. Ceoil (talk) 08:36, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Haha, yes they might. "Do you remember the Newcomers on television. mate??" Thoroughly poptastic tracks mate!! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:46, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
You can romanticise the 5.2 Lou Reed going uptown all you want, but the skinny jeaned, gaunt, and give a fuck Keef in this junkie vid is where I am at. ps Cale was cooler than either of them ever was c 1968. pps, Thomas Dolbay's autobio, on my desktop, is amazing; *very* bright dude; up there in rewarding interview stakes with Paddy McAloon. Have a podcast where him and Eno are chatting. Hollly....Ceoil (talk) 11:25, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
.... and here's a different version of a good old classic. Sure works for me! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
This is geniounly tear jerking.[47] The footage of two hoodie thieving bastards behind sharing their spoils them is icing on the cake. Heroes of CCVT!, although I blame fucking Lars. (talk) 13:12, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Nice version. Surely you mean: "casual young Melbourne shoppers going about their normal law-abiding business"? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
I love the way she is totally the boss; he pimp walks in with his cache, but is pushed aside and a bitch within 4 seconds. But yes, mostly upstanding citizens; Lars has a lot to answer for. Ceoil (talk) 14:30, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Lost in all of this is sax solos in rock; best has to be David Sanborn. Cool looking dude, good lungs, and worked with Bowie. Ceoil (talk) 22:36, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, a great player. As far as sax in rock goes, it's hard to beat "a little bit of this and that a little bit of that, oh-oh!!" who has never cased to amaze me when I've seen him play live. My all-time favorite is probably this guy, but then he covered rock, soul, funk and jazz, and of course blues with the genius that was Champion Jack: mmmmmmm. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:00, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
To me, less is more. its like Elgar; bits and pieces are fine, but not so interested in a full blown sax band. In that spirit, here is a nice minimalist tune.[48]. Ceoil (talk) 23:22, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
ps, that king Curtis vid is, wow. Ceoil (talk) 23:27, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, it's a real gem. "This week I 'ave been mostly listen' to vintage XTC." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:57, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

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Hi Kbrown (WMF). You'll realise why I have mixed feelings about Fram if you care to consult my block log. But I'd be pleased to complete your 3-minute survey. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

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ITN recognition for Terry O'Neill (photographer)Edit

 On 19 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Terry O'Neill (photographer), which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:25, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks. I see that the BBC tells us: "He photographed the Queen twice. In 2001 he revealed on BBC Radio 4's Desert Island Discs how he had got her to smile during the second photo shoot in 1992 - a year described by the Queen as an "annus horribilis" - by telling a horse-racing joke." Might be worth adding. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:42, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Sharing the page with Hevrin Khalaf, see my talk for memorial and protest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:26, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Remembering the dead is today's topic, at least in Protestant Germany. So here we have the sad list of the 2019 deaths so far, Márta Kurtag on the German Main page, and Totentanz, and dealing with the latest, I'm not sure if I heard this, but could very well be, matches this, - I think I remember the Britten. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Gerda. That's good of User:Klbrain to nominate Stephen Cleobury. I do hope he can help with sources for the CDs. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Most are sourced now. And no doubt they all exist. discogs has 93 entries, but is no reliable source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:15, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, no doubt. But as we know, some editors make a point of not posting unless everything is sourced to an RS. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:35, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
sure, om my way to please them, and still not be late, as for Márta Kurtag, grrrr. Can you read this, and if yes add? Because I seem to have just used Gramophone too much, and they want me to subscribe. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
same --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Beati --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
When did "Archive of Recorded Church Music" get the copyright from BBC TV's Omnibus, I wonder. But yes, very nice. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:29, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Byker HillEdit

Hi Martin – do you mind if I change the disambiguation on this article from Byker Hill (Martin Carthy album) to Byker Hill (album), as there doesn't seem to be another album with this title, making the disambiguation by artist redundant? Richard3120 (talk) 21:54, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

No, of course not. Go right ahead, that makes complete sense. Thanks for spotting that and for telling me. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. in fact, I've gone ahead and moved it to save you the trouble!
Cheers, that's good of you. It's not an area of music I'm especially knowledgeable about, but Wikipedia definitely needs to improve its coverage of British folk artists and their music, and you and Ceoil seem to be the only ones doing anything in this field, so good work. Richard3120 (talk) 01:00, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Stephen CleoburyEdit

 On 24 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Stephen Cleobury, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Kees08 (Talk) 22:36, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Aye, and therefore be you merry, Rejoice and be merry, Set sorrow aside Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 24 November 2019 (UTC) BACH: "In dulci jubilo" BWV729
Listening to "Hodie" from the 9 lessons: I reverted an IP who added his first wife and 2 daughters without a ref, but it's in the Guardian obit. Too tired to word that, - could you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:08, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Gerda, I'll try and take a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. I translated to German, took a break before turning to recordings, and noticed the next. He composed a mass for us, DYK 2012, everything in the article was sourced back then, but now, some sources are gone. Sad. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Maybe we should just stop doing ITN/RD Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Stop putting flowers on graves? Can you believe that Cleobury had no article in German? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
That is a surprise, I must say. And a very good addition, thanks to you. Well, I guess if someone is suffering enough to write it down, etc.... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
musical flowers --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:57, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Gary RhodesEdit

 On 27 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Gary Rhodes, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:57, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks MSG, even though Gary never used very much. Also pleased to say that this appears to be not a copyvio. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:59, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

RIP Clive JamesEdit

When Clive met Old Beardie. One of the funniest, driest, most honest writers and commentators ever to write or commentate. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes. I remember "Clive James in Australia" in the 80s, it being the first time my father and I shared wry, sardonic humour, it was cannot miss TV, but had no idea until about 20 years later that he was also such a renowned critic. Of everything he wrote however, this middle brow vent is prob my favourite, for its forensic humour. Ceoil (talk) 22:47, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Haha. Just brilliant.... "Daenerys can’t lose. After all, she has dragons for an air force. She also has access to the only reliable supply of artificial fabrics in the realm, and on her form a sheer negligee drapes wrinkle-free, like Ban-Lon on a Barbie doll: the Hollywood concept of feminine allure always did depend on a certain insouciance about wearing nightwear by day. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Now, now, the first two F&I books and first GoT tv series are amazing and submersive by any standards. He does rather cut later through iterations I suppose. Ceoil (talk) 22:57, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Thank you for updating List of In Our Time programmes. I see there is still a programme that needs to have the people on it mentioned. Many thanks for your help, Vorbee (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

  Done No worries. A few links still needed, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Clive JamesEdit

 On 29 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Clive James, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 01:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:05, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Well done. One thing about these bios, I don't like a long list of professions. If a comedian, for eg, had a ghost bio, is he a writer. Or is is Coogan now a media critic? Frankly I hve a hard time considering James a poet; maybe he sandwiched that in among other accomplishments, back in the day. Ceoil (talk) 07:08, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
In fact he published quite a lot of poetry. He speaks about it in that interview with Mary Beard. He said the things he enjoyed writing most were song lyrics! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:56, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

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Sacre bleu! Les sonneries d'alarme du DPL-bot sonnent maintenant, n'est-ce pas?! "An alarm or other signal sounded by a bell or bells, especially with reference to France, or to the bell itself (see tocsin) Embedded in the DAB page, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:36, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Copyright violationsEdit

"Best known for..." 15 years of sockpuppetry and picking fights over nothing
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I removed a copyright violation, in which this exact text was reproduced from a newspaper article: "Humphrys denied interrupting Clarke 32 times in the interview, the source of the complaint. Aitken was subsequently jailed for perjury." You restored the copyright violation. Are you aware that you can't violate other people's copyright in this way? Kaerana (talk) 09:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I think those are just facts. If they are not, I think the issue can be easily solved by swapping a few words around. Or even by "a re-write." Your edit summary said "mostly a copyright violation of the cited Independent article." But I assume you meant this article in I-news. The actual ref, placed next to those sentences, was to BBC's 2008 Desert Island Discs which was, in fact, no longer working. So I've updated the url. I'm just re-listing to that programme to see if he does indeed mention the Aitken incident. I can't remember from the first time I heard it. In the meantime, I see that you have just deleted that text all over again, with the helpful edit summary: "do not restore copyright violations. You must rewrite it so that it is not a copyright violation." If you feel it would be more useful to report me to the appropriate noticeboard, for my dreadful misdemeanour, rather than attempt a minor re-write, I guess that's what you'll have to do. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:54, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
What possible relevance could it have if they are "just facts"? You can't plagiarise - that's the inviolable rule. If someone removes a copyright violation, don't put it back unchanged. You must rewrite it so that it is not a copyright violation. Kaerana (talk) 10:02, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Wholly relevant facts. I think any "copyright violation" was extremely minor. I don't see how it was "plagiarism" as the source was very plainly provided, with a web link. If you want to step down off your lecture stage for just a moment, you might want to note that the Desert Island Discs programme doesn't mention the Aitken interview at all, and only mentions his interviewing style in general. Humphreys does speak very eloquently, however, from about 36:33, about his relationship with Sanderson and his son Owen. So that might be worth expanding. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:14, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Plagiarism is plagiarism, even if you say "here is where I plagiarised this stuff from". Are you genuinely not able to understand that copying text verbatim from a source is a copyright violation? Kaerana (talk) 10:20, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
As far as I know, plagiarism is "presenting someone else's work or ideas as your own", i.e. not giving a source. But thanks so much for the incessant and patronising scolding. It's great editing Wikipedia, isn't it. We all get to collaborate to improve articles. Even by just suggesting minor re-writes. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC) p.s. the Aitken topic has been there since this addition by User:Martpol on 14 April 2005.
I see that you've been blocked before for not understanding what constitutes a copyright violation. It is unfortunate that this problem is recurring. Kaerana (talk) 10:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
How lovely of you to check. Why were those blocks given exactly? Perhaps you should compare notes with User:Fram for the indef and month-long blocks he so generously gave me? But the problem with block logs is that they don't explain if and why blocks were subsequently overturned by other more reasonable admins. If "the unfortunate problem" is beyond your powers of persuasion or reproach here, then I guess your duty as a diligent Wikipedian is to go ahead and report me to the appropriate noticeboard. But before we all get sued by I-news (or is it just me, I've never been too clear about that) perhaps you'd better get an admin like User:Diannaa to rush over to John Humphrys and rev-del that dreadful copyvio? Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
They do explain if and why blocks were subsequently overturned. For example, "User has promised not to repeat these mistakes again" after one of them. But you are repeating these mistakes again. Kaerana (talk) 10:46, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
"Repeating these mistakes again.. "? These are YouTube videos with embedded "Licensed to YouTube by.." statements, are they? Goodness me, I've just been to check on your "past history". What a surprise for someone so clued-up on copyright violation policy. Anybody might think you were a disgruntled sockpuppet of a permanently blocked editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:58, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
I see you were blocked twice for sockpuppetry as well so I guess you must know about such things. Kaerana (talk) 18:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
There is a 10-word overlap between the source document and the article. Martinevans123 is not the person who originally added the content; that was someone else back in August. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:42, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
20 words were identical, not 10, and the rest was very closely paraphrased. I did not say that Martinevans123 added the copyright violation originally; just that when I removed it, he restored it, and then appeared not to comprehend that it was a copyright violation. Kaerana (talk) 18:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Diannaa, whose skills and advice I completely respect, doesn't seem to share your view of the seriousness of my crime. I'm sure we'd all appreciate a quick demonstration from you of how that relatively modest passage could be re-worded to allow for its restoration to the John Humphrys article, avoiding any copyright violation. Meanwhile, I must warmly congratulate you on keeping a completely block-free and criticism-free Wikipedia career, for all of its 12 hours and 40 minutes. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:19, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Earwig's tool shows the overlap between the source webpage and the Wikipedia article at diff#928738341. The words that are directly copied are "...the source of the complaint. Aitken was subsequently jailed for perjury." (it's actually 11 words.) Earwig's tool shows additional overlap, which consists of quotations.— Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:26, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
I thought about attempting a re-write, but drew a blank as to how it could be worded differently. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I thought about that too and also drew a blank. I also have Earwig, thanks to you. To me that looks like a simple statement of fact. But then, it seems, I'm "repeating these mistakes again" and I have a blocklog for copyvio and for sockpuppetry. So I await User:Kaerana's expert "copyvio avoiding" re-word with some anticipation. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:44, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
You cannot copy text verbatim from a source. 11 words (which it is not) or 20 words (which it is), doesn't matter. Statement of fact, or something else, doesn't matter - you cannot copy text verbatim from a source. And you seriously cannot think of any way to write except to copy and paste from the source? That's a serious deficiency. Kaerana (talk) 20:54, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
You really know how to work collaboratively, don't you Kaerana. I bet you're really popular amongst your fellow editors. Please show us your suggested reword here and we can discus it. Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Martin - the guy's a troll. Unfortunately, we've a fair number of them. But we also have a great bunch of editors with whom collaboration can be both productive and fun. Leave Kaerana to the time sink, and to themselves. KJP1 (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
I think it's pretty obvious this person is already an experienced editor, hiding under the guise of a new account. The question when then arises is "why?" I'm tempted to request an WP:SPI. But, as things stand, I really can't be bothered. If they carry on with this level of disruptive hectoring and pointless preaching with other editors, I guess they won't last very long. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
I've rewritten and re-inserted the section and it seems to pass Earwig. Robevans123 (talk) 02:12, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
  • Kaerana, it would have been trivial for you to have provided a diff to the edit in question. Please be more considerate, in future. Geo Swan (talk) 04:16, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
It was obvious to myself and to Martinevans123 which edit I was referring to. I find that restoring a copyright violation to an article is disruptive and unhelpful, while not providing a diff is not.Kaerana (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Amazing the abuse that one can receive for caring about and understanding copyright. The person previously blocked for sockpuppetry and repeated copyright violations is clearly very unhappy to have their shortcomings pointed out. Kaerana (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Kaerana, no-one else seems to think it was a copyright violation. It seems you made a mistake. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

FYI, I have blocked Kaerana as a sock of community-banned WP:LTA/BKFIP. Favonian (talk) 11:07, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. Seems the slightly bigger mistake was creating that new sockpuppet account. The phrase "disruptive and unhelpful" springs to mind. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:31, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

So, farewell then...Edit

If it smells like a sock,
argues like a sock,
doesn't help (like a sock),
it probably is a sock.

E Jarvis Thribb (age 17½) (talk) 13:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

At least the poor chap isn't a "frightful quare". Martinevans123 (talk) 13:24, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Der Ring in MindenEdit

... finally appeared today, - my opera experience of the year. Part of the hook, "... to listen to the music at the end", would be a good motto ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Nice one, Gerda! Well done. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

So, farewell then...Edit

So, farewell then Edgar Sockman.
What a cool cat.
One of Wikipedia's finest Admins,
"More Socks than Faith"
That was your motto.
"You Won't Catch Me, you silly buggers"
Was another.
We all wonder, who'll be Next.

E Martin Thribb (age 57½) (talk) 14:00, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

I looked if I gave them precious more than once, but no, just once. Sometimes I wonder ... 3 for the rabbits and 2 for the bishs (intentionally), 2 for the pumpkins (less intentionally). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:21, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Bless you, Gerda. You're so charitable, you'll pay tribute to any old socks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:29, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

And then my mind split openEdit

Your earlier King Curtis link, its just, no words. Ive listened about 50 times today, though the figure is very basic, wow what they all do. Its certainly changed how I see electric blues. Ceoil (talk) 20:42, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it is pretty seismic, isn't it. There are few words, in fact... but what the hell. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2019 (UTC) ... it's only a bit electric
The saxist did a few thing towards the end that made me want to burn the house down. Of course I can'd do that because I'm married and Liz would be annoyed with having no house. Still though, wow. Ceoil (talk) 21:05, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Socks don't always come in pairsEdit

Socks wear out eventually.
Darn socks
Sniffing out socks is not only a thankless job, it's a stinky one.

Especially for those of us who can't duck fast enough.
It gets even worse when it's a drawer full and the feet they
belong to is someone we once trusted. Kudos to all the sniffers!


Have a big ole vat of sake on me!
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