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If you came here to alert me to DS for post-1932 American Politics (AP2), climate change, BLP, GMO, or anything else included in the WP:Arbitration enforcement log, please be aware that I am PERMANENTLY AWARE - awareness is tattooed on my (_*_) - so there is no need to post another DS alert.

Point to this notice to CYA.
Get your own Ds aware filter here!

Archives for It Will Soon Pass

Do not disturb. I'm in the middle of important research.

Useful Hodgepodge
WGBH, the NPR station in Boston, had a journalist working WikiCon2019 at MIT. A few Wikipedians were interviewed, and included in the podcast. 0:)
PD download links
Following are a few links to freely download CC0 (PD) images:

The most useful used skill I've discovered for Alexa - Alexa, call me.
Now, if I can only get it to work with my keys.

Autocorrect has become my worst enema.

On a sign at a restaurant in Texas:
Treat your Mom to a Margarita! You're probably the reason she drinks.

Research reveals that people who drink heavily are much more likely to experience retrospective memory loss.
Isn't that why we drink?

I can fix stupid, but it's gonna hurt.

I have never faked a sarcasm in my life!

I’m not insulting you, I’m describing you.

RfA candidate S O N S% Ending (UTC) Time left Dups? Report
Money emoji 134 40 5 77 12:07, 18 February 2020 1 day, 12 hoursno report
RfB candidate S O N S% Ending (UTC) Time left Dups? Report

Last updated by cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online at 23:07, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

So many unanswered questions
I still have so many unanswered questions. I don't know who let the dogs out...where's the beef...how to get to Sesame Street...why Dora doesn't just use Google Maps...why do all flavors of Fruit Loops taste exactly the same...why eggs are packaged in flimsy styrofoam or paper cartons, but batteries are packaged in plastic that's tough as nails...why women can't put on mascara with their mouth closed...why "abbreviated" is such a long word...why lemon juice is made with artificial flavor, but dishwashing liquid is made with real lemons...why they sterilize the needle for lethal injections...why you "put your two cents in", but it's only a "penny for your thoughts" - who's getting that extra penny...why does the Alphabet Song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star have the same tune, and why did you just try to sing those two songs...exactly what is Victoria's secret...why does Hawaii have interstate highways...why do we park in a driveway and drive on a parkway...why is there braille on drive-thru ATMs...and why you think I'm really this witty. I actually got this from a friend, who stole it from her brother’s girlfriend’s uncle’s cousin who lived next door to an old classmate’s mailman. Now it is your turn to take it from me. Copy/paste, and enjoy your day!
Check the Label
Make sure your Viagra prescription says Made In the USA
You don't want Russia meddling in your erections.
The Wisest Man Who Ever Lived
Dr. Rick Rigsby’s commencement address. I hope you will listen to it before you comment here.
JB's 5-Step Protocol
Awaken with JB, episode #88, he is woke. 😂
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead.

All the pain is felt by others.

Same thing happens when you're stupid.
People who confuse the words "burro" and "burrow" don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
How do I know?
I don’t know how much I don’t know because there’s no way to gage how much I don’t know when I don’t know what it is I don’t know, so stop telling me I should've known.

There has to be some merit to “ignorance is bliss" Atsme✍🏻📧

And there comes a time when we have to rethink some of the terms we use in the English language. yes 11:11, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
Snake in the bullpen
"I come from an environment where, if you see a snake, you kill it. At GM, if you see a snake, the first thing you do is go hire a consultant on snakes. Then you get a committee on snakes, and then you discuss it for a couple of years. The most likely course of action is -- nothing. You figure, the snake hasn't bitten anybody yet, so you just let him crawl around on the factory floor. We need to build an environment where the first guy who sees the snake kills it." ~Ross Perot
You look like rookies
"I'm sorry, but you two appear to be:

treating each other civilly accepting the possibility that your own actions might not have been correct trying to work out the best thing to do for the project without concern for you[r] own egos. I don't know where you people think you are, but you definitely don't understand how WP:AN is supposed to work. Where's the disrespect? The attacking of each other's characters and motives? The entertaining temper tantrums? Please immediately review other threads on this noticeboard, so you can better participate in WP:AN. Right now you look like rookies.

I don't do AFD, so I have no opinion on whether to relist or not (couldn't hurt, tho, right?), but that's a good example of what should be going on here; useless babble without any helpful outcome. --barneca (talk) 9:57 pm, 16 September 2008, Tuesday (10 years, 8 months, 12 days ago) (UTC−5)[1]

Carrots may be good for your eyes, but booze will double your vision.

To say it in WikiVoice, or not??
While this list of sources is really good and does establish "commonly used by reliable sources" I think we should additionally ask ourselves - what added benefit is there to Wikipedia saying it "in our own voice" as against simply reporting in a neutral manner that it is common for his comments to be described as racist.

As of this moment, we are engaging in what I think is admirable short-term restraint. We say in the lede "He has a history of making controversial [weasel words] comments." That's fine as far as it goes, because 'controversial comments' is true, and is neither positive nor negative as an evaluation. Sometimes controversial comments are good, sometimes they are bad. Fine. But we are at the same time here being too cautious, I think, in that we fail to inform the reader as to why the comments are controversial. Is he saying things that might be controversial in Iowa like "Gay marriage should be legal" or "Marijuana prohibition has done more harm than good"? No, actually. So I think we should cautiously say something like "He has a history of making comments that have commonly been referred to as racist.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]" Well, maybe 9 footnotes is excessive, but you see my point. We have more than enough to make the point that the reader needs to know, and I think the point is stronger than if we simply say, in our own voice, that he has a history of making racist comments. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 9:57 am, 19 June 2018, Tuesday (19 days ago) (UTC−5)

To include it in a BLP, or not??

BLPs wherein a subject's work, beliefs or ideologies are perhaps more controversial than the actual subject, should not become focused on bolstering and subsequently refuting the subject's views or theories rather than actually defining the subject. In many cases this may in fact be due to the subject trying to push their own ideas, while others work diligently to refute them, but many such cases involve editors who have no affiliation with the subject other than a personal belief/disbelief in their work. A person's biography is not a good place to debate scientific theory or ideological beliefs; such debates belong in the articles that focus on those topics. For BLPs, it is enough to simply state what their views are and link to the articles which expand on those views.
(quote by Zaereth edited for brevity; Jimbo Wales agreed with Zaereth’s explanation.)

Politics, presidents and NPOV

I'd like to add that I don't mind a little bit of personal chit-chat here about politics, I'd like to always seek to tie it back to Wikipedia. We have chosen a very tough job: NPOV. Dislike for the President, fear about things that are happening in the world, may make it emotionally harder to remain neutral, but remain neutral we must. I happen to personally think that given the decline in quality of the media across the board (there are still fantastic journalists out there, but overall the landscape isn't great) the best way for us to help the world heal is neutrality.--[2] Jimbo Wales (talk)] 3:12 pm, 8 January 2019, Tuesday (UTC−6)

Writing for the opponent

"Writing for the opponent is an important trait of good editors. They must be able to divorce themselves from their own POV so much that they can bend over backwards to aid in the writing of content which documents views they do not like. They must never block the inclusion of content which opposes their own POV or political positions. If they cannot do this, they should recuse themselves from the topic and edit in other areas. Editors who are unwilling or unable to write for the opponent are incapable of truly understanding or abiding by the NPOV policy. As such they will always cause problems."

(see WP:NPOV means neutral editors, not neutral content)

What Am I Doing Here...

Did you ever stop to consider that being equal may hold you back?

Do you want to make money from Wikipedia? It's easy! Log out and go to work!

For a lesson in the proper English application of the F-word see: this video

Is "group think" the academic version of "mob mentality"? Conformity!

Wikipedia: where anyone can edit and enjoy the benefits of income equality.

Pile-ons can be painful and unattractive, especially at noticeboards.

At the end of every rainbow is a capitalist with a pot of gold.

Back in my day, when athletes took a knee, they took a knee.
RfA archives

Sharing health tips with a friend:

  • For better digestion, I drink beer.
  • For appetite loss, I drink white wine.
  • If my blood pressure is too low, I drink red wine.
  • For high blood pressure, I drink scotch.
  • When I have a cold, I drink schnapps.”
My friend asked, “When do you drink water?”
I replied, “I’ve never been that sick.”
My medical entrance exam:

When I was young, I decided to enroll in medical school.
On the entrance exam, we were asked to unscramble the letters...


...to form the name of an important human body part that is most useful when erect.

The students who answered SPINE are doctors today, and the rest of us are editing Wikipedia.
Four Worms
Four worms were placed in 4 separate test tubes:
  • 1st in beer
  • 2nd in wine
  • 3rd in whiskey
  • 4th in mineral water

The next day, the teacher shows the results:

  • The 1st worm in beer - dead.
  • The 2nd in wine - dead.
  • The 3rd in whiskey - dead.
  • The 4th in mineral water - alive and in good health.

The teacher asks the class:

  • What did you learn from this experience?

A student responds:

  • Whoever drinks beer, wine and whiskey does not have worms.
Wait! There’s more!
*I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.
  • I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.
  • This girl said she recognized me from the vegetarian club, but I'd never met herbivore.
Atsme's Education
I was educated at MIT, then went to Harvard. After that, things got fishy.

If only...

  • ...sarcasm burned calories.
  • ...you knew, you would know.
  • ...closed minds came with closed mouths.
  • ...mosquitos sucked fat instead of blood.
  • ...the good died young, we'd be here forever.
  • ...my teeth were as white as my legs.
  • ...more people were fluent in silence.

When A Grizzly Attacks
Hiker to park ranger, "Ranger, how does one survive a bear attack?"

Ranger replies, Easy...remove the "f" from the word "way".

Wild grizzly bear in Alaska.png

Hiker responds, "There's no "f" in "way".

Ranger replies, "Exactly."

Thought Grenades...

  • It is much easier to ride a horse in the direction it is going. ~Abraham Lincoln
  • It gets late early out there. ~Yogi Bera
  • There comes a time on Wikipedia when it's important to know when to stop arguing with editors, and simply let them be wrong. Atsme📞📧
  • Nodding the head does not row the boat. — Irish Proverb
  • Make haste slowly. —Kikkoman
  • Be who you are, say what you mean, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. — Bernard Baruch
  • Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." —Randy Pausch
  • I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short. ~ Blaise Pascal
  • Patience is a virtue. Give karma a chance.
  • I may not be young enough to know everything, but I'm old enough to not believe everything.
  • A tip for longevity: Never believe the impossible can't happen to you.
  • “It is well known that human choices are affected by the way in which a question is phrased.” ~ Benedetto de Martino

Dear Karma,
I have a list of people you missed.

Don't sweat it!
Karma's only a bitch if you're one first.

Who punched the spike?Edit


Traffic stats


How Woke Are We?Edit

”The encyclopedia’s reliance on outside sources, primarily newspapers, means it will be only as diverse as the rest of the media—which is to say, not very.” [1]

  • Re: the above Bloomberg article, "not very" is quite accurate, but I remain cautiously optimistic that once RECENTISM dies down, things will greatly improve.

"Since decisions are by those who participate in a localized discussion, leaving cedes the decision-making power to those willing to engage in the least logical and sane response. This incentivizes not just obsessive but also belligerent behavior and even harassment, and empowers those privileged with the time and resources to engage in this behavior. Minor quibbles about grammar is one thing, but these techniques are frequently used by political ideologues, ethnic nationalists, and conspiracy theorists. Professor Bryce Peake called this the “hegemony of the asshole consensus.” [2]

  • No need to elaborate further on that particular quote. Some will be able to relate, whereas others will find it insulting. For more info, see Wikipedia @ 20. You may decide to submit your own essay. Atsme Talk 📧 14:03, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Putting things in perspectiveEdit

I was reading Wikipedia:FRAMBAN in an attempt to improve my understanding of what happened. Lo and behold, nestled quietly in one of the comments was a wikilink to the essay, Wikipedia:Wikipedia does not need you. The following paragraph drew my undivided attention:

Should it happen that a cabal of admins, operating on the talk page of an article or the lion's den of AN/I, manage to block you on an invented charge, the world will continue to turn. The grass will grow, the birds will lay eggs, the number of Pokémon-related articles will still double every 1.7 weeks, and articles on weathermen will be brought to AfD. Sure, it won't be done as smoothly and as elegantly as when you did it, but it will be done. This encyclopedic project will continue to turn. Sad, but true.

Atsme Talk 📧 05:47, November 30, 2019

Darn it. Is nothing sacred?? ... and have we got nooooooos for you!!Martinevans123 (talk) 12:23, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

  1. ^ "Are you a robot?". Bloomberg. 2016-12-22. Retrieved 2019-11-23.
  2. ^ Fernandez, Robert (2019-06-02). "The Limits of Volunteerism and the Gatekeepers of Team Encarta · Wikipedia @ 20". Wikipedia @ 20. Retrieved 2019-11-23.

Well doneEdit

  Rescue Barnstar
Your editing and assistance at Bachelor Lake and at the AFD discussion made a big difference. In the face of adversity, article improved; rescue done. Congratulations. 7&6=thirteen () 11:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, 13 - as you alluded to above, article improvement made it all worthwhile. It was a good debate all the way around with a few minor exceptions. Wish we'd see more like that in AP2.   Perhaps having the article in WP will generate more interest and attention to the importance of aquatic ecosystems (big and small), and the need to maintain biodiversity, protect natural habitats and preserve the balance. I thought the close by Andrew Davidson was commendable and well thought out, so kudos to him as well!

Finding sources on small (and even bigger) lakes is hard. There are lakes in Michigan that I personally know a lot about (and I know there are actually a lot of sources on them), but the Wikipedia articles don't reflect that. A lot of the sources are local papers, or small run books. See Hubbard Lake in Michigan, for example. I've seen (but do not own) several books on the lake. But these are not widely distributed; and finding editors who want to take the time to write the Wikipedia article is a big order. A look at Google books for Hubbard Lake doesn't seem to show them. I have seen them at the Churchill Point Inn on Hubbard Lake (one of the best restaurants in the area, they have a souvenir shop), so I know they exist.
I've personally created a few Michigan lake articles. They are IMO better than a lot of the Minnesota lake articles that were mentioned at the AFD.
trying to find a bright line test for the notability of lakes is problematical, if not illusory.
The WP:Not solution is a poor fit. If there is more than in a gazeteer, there is plenty. WP:Not paper. I would tend to favor a rule that let's in most (if not all) lakes.
With six million articles, vs. Britannica's 250,000, we already let in a lot of material that they didn't. 7&6=thirteen () 19:40, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
  - Britannica has to pay for their articles. Atsme Talk 📧 20:27, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Thirteen, I would start looking for found sources like this one, and followed the leads to the government entities, etc. Others I found right away are: Michigan DNR "Hubbard Lake", "2017 Spring Hubbard Lake Walleye Survey", Alcona Review, "Citizen scientists investigate aquatic invasive species in Hubbard Lake" and "Thunder Bay River Hydroelectric Project, Relicensing, and Hillman Dam", 4-43. Atsme Talk 📧 21:24, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry to see the tendentious editing going on there. Some do not know when to give it up; building an encyclopedia would seem to be a good priority. Your continued efforts in the face of adversity are appreciated. 7&6=thirteen () 13:21, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Thirteen, to believe all editors prioritize building an encyclopedia would be like believing the North Pole and South Pole are exactly the same when there's a world of difference between them. 😊 Atsme Talk 📧 23:52, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
I get that. It's an aspiration. My User page addresses some of those thoughts. But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. 7&6=thirteen () 02:45, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Chinese paddlefishEdit

Seems the new year starts out with various bad news, including the apparent extinction[3] of the Chinese paddlefish... All I know about paddlefish is from reviewing your American paddlefish GAN. Perhaps the Chinese one could warrant expansion as a tribute? But truly sad... Did you ever see one? FunkMonk (talk) 13:14, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Sad news, indeed FunkMonk. It stirred memories of my days as a liaison in GeoCities' Rainforest, and some of the stories I shared about Martha, which really struck a sympathetic chord with me. 😢 Extinction is a grim reality with a permanence that too few take time to conceptualize. I paid close attention to both keystone and ancestral species back when I was producing nature programming for PBS and international distribution. During the International Sturgeon Conference in Manhatten (1994), Bill Murray quoted a famous biologist/explorer/author whose words ring eternal. I tried hard to maintain some level of optimism despite the writing on the wall, and what so many biologists knew would be the inevitable fate of Chinese paddlefish. Crucial habitat (Yangzte River) had been destroyed beyond repair; a predictable side effect of unsustainable human development. Unfortunately, I have not seen a live Chinese paddlefish, much less one in its natural environment. Atsme Talk 📧 18:24, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Wow, that Bill Murray appearance came as a surprise! Always nice to see when somewhat obscure causes have a broader appeal. In many cases it is just too late, and in the current climate, I don't exactly have high hopes... Maybe it's an illusion, but I hope writing articles here about extinct and endangered species may help in some sense. FunkMonk (talk) 11:03, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Not an illusion, FunkMonk - every bit helps. My decades old slogan is “Dedication to conservation through information and education.” Back when I was producing Water Sports Weekly, a weekly cable sports program about everything on, under and in the water, I did a show about bowfishing for alligator gar. That show led to a career away from cable & commercial television where I could focus on producing educational programs (PBS), beginning with the first ever televised program about alligator gar. Imagine a television special about animals that didn’t include an African safari or a trip down under, and the star of the show wasn’t a warm & fuzzy critter with big eyes! My initial proposal was a culture shock to several executive programmers who initially turned it down. It’s all about timing, tenacity, meeting the right people and never giving up. Cutting to the chase: the gar program was televised nationally, (received a #1 Nielsen rating in primetime during July sweeps) was watched by multi-millions, led to a mini-series that ran for 2 years, and was eventually broadcast internationally. The alligator gar eventually gained respect by resource agencies.
Surprisingly, in the years that followed, my mini-series (Exotic and Unusual Fishes) attracted the interest of Nat Geo, Animal Planet, Discovery, etc. (I licensed a lot of footage to them), which meant more exposure for ancestral fish species. My efforts with help from friends I made at KUHT, WKNO and APS provided the exposure needed for me to lay the groundwork for a new style of programming that made ugly, relatively unknown fish species and a few other rather obscure endangered species appeal to large viewing audiences. In retrospect, I wish more funding could have been made available so I could have shot it on film like The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau, or NOVA, or Nat Geo but the video format I used (Betacam with some DVM) passed broadcast standards so it aired. The series also attracted the attention of Al-jazeera television who wanted me to setup their environmental unit but that’s another story I reserve for loose lipped discussions during Happy Hour. 😂🍻🍺
Good job!
Anyway, the intent of this rather drawn-out approach is to impress upon you and maybe even some of my tp watchers that it is not an illusion to believe our WP articles can actually help make the public more aware of endangered species, critical habitat and human encroachment. If I can do it, anyone can, and I certainly encourage it. The page views for Alligator gar from 7/1/2015 - 1/8/2020 = 1,345,042 pageviews (814/day). While it is less than what a single broadcast in a metroplex might generate on PBS, it is still exposure, and why I have always believed in the importance of education, getting our articles right and investing the extra effort to get them promoted to GA/FA status. Happy editing, my wikifriend!! Atsme Talk 📧 16:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for these insights, which is motivating both on and off-Wiki. In "real life" I also want to do some work in this vein; I am an animator and mainly work on commercial, non-educational projects, but hopefully I can get some of my natural history interests worked into future projects. Your jump from sports to nature programming is certainly inspiring in that regard! FunkMonk (talk) 18:08, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
FunkMonk - you're going to get a kick out of this!! I laughed so hard, I was tearing up!! I just opened an email from YouTube warning me of a potential copyvio. Apparently, NatGeo reported me to YouTube, alleging that I violated their copyright by using alligator gar footage from "Hooked: Vampire Fish" in my video "Alligator Gar: Predator or Prey?" 😂😂😂 I guess the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing over there, or that the footage in their Hooked episode was what they licensed from me under a non-exclusive license. Oh, the timing!! The ink is still wet on our discussion. Atsme Talk 📧 18:26, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
You gotta love those automated media recognition systems Youtube uses these days, I also read that they flag out of public domain recordings of music as copyright violations... In your case, I think you can actually dispute their claims... Your case also reminds me of something I discovered recently while expanding the Segnosaurus article. Here is a drawing[4] I made of that dinosaur for Wikipedia back in 2008, and here is a video[5] of a life-sized puppet used for a UK theatre production. There are some similarities between them that seem like more than coincidences to me... So Wikipedia work may influence the "real world" pretty directly after all. FunkMonk (talk) 18:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
FunkMonk - love your artwork, and yes, I do see the similarities.   Just curious...which of the images on the right represent the type of work you do as an animator? Atsme Talk 📧 15:41, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I think the closest match would be the last one, as I mainly do 3D computer animation these days... But I also draw a lot, of course. FunkMonk (talk) 05:51, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
OMG! That is amazing, FunkMonk!! WOW!! Now don't laugh at me, but I go back to the days of Amiga computers (Commodore) when we had to construct 3D objects before they could be animated, and the process took days, weeks or even months - and required multiple machines rendering graphics!! The opening segment of Sturgeon: Ancient Survivors - the part where the world spins in - is something I constructed from scratch, including the 3D globe. Then I had to time everything so that North America spun around in the proper position during the timed sequence. Ugh!! It was one of my early animations, long before the software was created to automate the construction of 3D graphics, nevermind the paths or whatever it was called back then for the object to travel on. I have forgotten so much!! I envy you and what you're able to do now! Perhaps you could do a presentation at the next WikiCon? Atsme Talk 📧 06:09, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Wow, so you're an animator as well! And I also see you use some paleoart by the great Doug Henderson (artist) in the beginning of the documentary, good choice (he is still widely respected among dinosaur artists today, I grew up gawking at books he illustrated)! You've really had a hands on approach to all aspects of the documentary, that seems pretty rare. I'd say it is much more impressive what could be accomplished with computer animation back then, because these days a lot of the technical stuff is just handed to us. But the look of early 3D animation is actually getting trendy these days, I guess due to the 80s/90s nostalgia phase we're currently in. Heh, I guess it depends on where the next Wikicon is, I'm in Scandinavia! FunkMonk (talk) 06:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I wouldn't go that far 😁, FunkMonk. I'm not even on this planet close to what you are capable of doing. I have a very basic understanding (as in, Disney animation art cell basics with a splash of computer knowledge) but adapt easily to most newfangled inventions (software) - actually wrote a bit of js back in the day - and can also work on Mac innards, and some of the old dinosaur video tape machines that used 3/4", Betacam and mini-DV formats - all of which I still have from my retired edit suite. They now clutter the game room.

Carcass of Kamuysaurus, floating in the sea.

I'm also happy to know that you're an admin on Commons!! I added one of my favs from your uploads - there are so many incredible images - thanks for sharing. Re: the exposure WP/Commons provides along with our other efforts in creating/improving articles on WP are important. There are times when I've questioned why on earth we tolerate some of the indignities we encounter across a wide range of articles from time to time (mostly on rare occasion)<– learned that from Yogi Berra – but there will always be disputes - and I've digressed, so back on point. The general public is hungry for factual, scientifically-based information and related materials. A while back, I did some informal statistical research to get a feel of how much impact, if any, my efforts may have had, or if such impacts were even measurable. I was surprised to learn the numbers that showed-up in the Google searches, and the variety of formats and venues. I'm sure there are more that did not show up because of the timing of those productions/broadcasts pre-dating so much of what is available on the internet today. There is some monetary value to our volunteer work (equivalent in value to a $$ donation to WMF) but there is far more educational value that we cannot put a price on...especially if, in some small way, we are contributing to saving an entire species. Following are a few small examples of how some of the information I've provided has been circulated over the years:

  1. Cornell 2 citations of interest: 9 - Christopher Letts, excerpt from Sturgeon: Ancient Survivors of the Deep, Earthwave Productions, 1995 also available at http://www.earthwave.org/sturgeon.htm and 11 – Wikipedia on Sturgeon, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon.
  2. NOVA, credits - images - sometimes show up in the least likely places. (FF to 2:48) 🤣
  3. Your Week
  4. Science Friday (2 squid images, the one in the header not credited, a minor downside)
  5. Berkeley CRScience - America's Crayfish: Crawling In Troubled Waters - that same program (co-produced with Virginia Tech) was recently licensed for hosting at a password protected site for a program that was developed at the Lawrence Hall of Science, UC Berkeley, with funding from the Ntl. Science Fndtn. The materials are distributed by School Specialty Science/Delta Education.

Be inspired. Atsme Talk 📧 17:25, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

When you say Disney animation, do you mean you draw as well? And yeah, there's no denying that Wikipedia articles have a huge influence, as it seems many people look here before they check the classic encyclopaedias. After all, a complete Wikipedia article holds more information than your usual encyclopaedia entry, simply becaus we have more space. And in many cases, Wikipedia articles about some (often obscure) subjects are actually the most comprehensive treatments around. So it is pretty satisfying to know what we're doing may be the definitive sources of information in some cases, and the imagery we choose for the articles will visually define the subjects for many people. By the way, the first article I expanded for FAC about an endangered animal was Echo parakeet, and interestingly, within the year it was promoted, it was downgraded to vulnerable. So there are some good news once in a while... FunkMonk (talk) 11:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
The only thing I can draw is water from a well.   My artistic creativity is limited to what I see through the lens of a camera and can fix later in Photoshop. FunkMonk, thank you for the excellent work you did on Echo parakeet! I was unaware of the Mascarene Islands until now, or that such a parakeet even existed. I just watched a YouTube video about the islands and also found this travel blog, and the islands are now on my bucket list. I'm of the mind that there simply hasn't been enough emphasis on the harmful effects of deforestation, Scientific American, The Guardian, NYTimes but like AP2, it's one of those controversial topic areas I'd rather avoid. Atsme Talk 📧 14:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Ah, many of the articles I've brought to FAC have been about extinct Mascarene birds; I'm sure you've heard of one of them, the dodo of Mauritius. I'd also like to go there, though I fear it would be too depressing, as much of the nature there has been destroyed or degraded. But it could be cool to go fossil hunting there as well, a few of the birds from there, such as the mysterious Réunion swamphen, are only known from old written accounts... FunkMonk (talk) 22:03, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Am not aware of the dodo of Mauritius, but am familiar with the Galapagos dodo booby. I dove Shark Island which is only 466 miles from the Galapagos Islands. It was quite the adventure. I recently learned about the White-throated rail on Aldabra - looks like its rebirth was an immaculate conception after having gone extinct. I included a link to the May 2019 CNN article for anyone who hasn't seen it. There's a little over 1300 miles between Aldabra and Mascarene, and both have Madagascar in common. Looks like a 6 month photo adventure may be on the horizon. Atsme Talk 📧 23:51, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Hmmm, only Mascarene birds have been called dodos, so I wonder if there has been a slip up? The Galapagos islands have their famous finches, tortoises, and marine iguanas, and both island groups are notable for showing the interesting things that can happen when species evolve in isolation on islands. I certainly envy your trip there, I had an amazing Time Life book mainly about the Galapagos islands and Darwin's development of evolutionary theory which I still look through from time to time, great photos and artwork... FunkMonk (talk) 08:32, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Apologies, FunkMonk - I conflated two different thoughts - I meant Galapagos booby not dodo. Ha! It's kinda funny because of our non-ornithological application of those two words - I was both. 😂 When speaking of Galapagos, I can't help but think of Cocos Island when I was shooting the Okeanos Aggressor promo. We crossed paths with the NOVA IMAX crew who were there shooting "Island of the Sharks". I couldn't get over the size of their underwater cameras & housings and how lit-up the ocean was with all the u/w lights. I saw the movie at an IMAX theater and it was exceptional. Atsme Talk 📧 09:22, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Hehe, I was just conflating some copyright things on this very page too; the Danish name of the Eurasian bullfinch is "dompap", which sounds like "dumb cardboard", so I'll be one of those... I think I'll have a marathon of your nature movies one of these days, so much stuff to dive into! FunkMonk (talk) 18:58, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
Enjoy, Mr. FunkMonk! They are less entertaining than educational - after the initial airing, PBS affiliates used them during their call-in fund raisers. I've been seriously thinking about producing a few more "nature specials" over the next few years...maybe do some half-hour updates to the hour-long programs. I've got hours and hours of underwater footage that hasn't been used. I'm thinking an "around the USA" adventure this year or next. I still have my big Sony broadcast camera and can use it as a studio cam or put a DVCam back on it and away we go! I've also thought about uploading better quality videos to replace the lower rez videos I initially uploaded to YouTube but life keeps getting in the way. Oh, and if you have a way to access YouTube on your TV, you can watch them with your sleep-timer set so the TV turns off if/when you fall asleep while watching them!   Atsme Talk 📧 14:38, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Sounds cool with such "special editions", maybe even an addendum about the Chinese paddlefish could be added. Don't think I'd fall asleep, I tend to watch films and documentaries while eating dinner, hehe... FunkMonk (talk) 10:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Atsme, may I download your life experiences and skills? You're a very interesting person. I'd love to share a few dozen beers with you. I love your pictures. Simply beautiful. -- BullRangifer (talk) 23:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Awww...you are such a sweetie, BR...but I don't think you'd like me after a few dozen beers - I'd probably be snoring after the...uhm...6th. WP is an open platform so you don't need my permission for anything. I was outed several years ago, so anything/everything I've said, done, implied or uploaded, especially on WP, is free to the public - and for that I should probably extend my global apologies. What led to my outing was actually a newbie mistake (and I'm not the first or last newbie editor who made such a mistake) but thankfully, oversight/admins/arbcom have long since tightened up on it in an effort to prevent it from happening to others. Quite frankly, outing actually worked out better for me than I imagined it would - I can actually be me - although, the latter may not be viewed as a positive to some on WP. 😂 BR, I wish you only the best in your personal endeavors, you are good person with a big heart, true to your convictions, and a strong man when faced with RL challenges - you know why I know that about you. As for me, I am but a tiny pebble on the infinite beach of life. And don't think for one minute that life is not a beach. 😂 ❤️ Atsme Talk 📧 03:00, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Keep an eyeEdit

Doncram just redirected every lake in Brown County Minn without discussion, and I reverted those edits. They appear on this template.

I'm trying to expand/improve the little article, but they are removing material faster than I can get it added. What we need is collaboration, not resistance. When the editor who nominated the article for AfD is reverting, then the close is challenged, and now there is resistance to improvement, that is not a sign of GF. Atsme Talk 📧 00:02, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
It really is terrible. I just do not want anyone blocked over this stupid little lake. But even with all the heat on it it continues. Help me keep an eye on those other lakes of Brown county. IMO we need some discussion prior to a drastic redirect on every one of them. Lightburst (talk) 00:10, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
It's going to work out, Lightburst - and I am looking forward to future collaborations with you and CaroleHenson. 😊 Atsme Talk 📧 05:15, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Have you considered taking this to the talk pages for either Wikipedia:WikiProject Lakes or Wikipedia:WikiProject Minnesota? It would be nice to be as calm as possible. I don't think he has bad intentions... just different ones from yours.
I am happy to work on clean-up of articles if they aren't part of a dramatic furor.–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:23, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
I didn't know about any of this, and I have not had problems with the user when working on NRHP listings for Colorado, in fact I learned some things and we collaborated on a list of articles to clean up until I went on an extended break and I think he finished the list without me. In any event, all I can do is evaluate what I am seeing in the present tense. And, offered a suggestion to deal with the issue of changes to many articles by going to a WikiProject talk page. I looked at the articles in question and they were pretty lean, unless others have been able to find more content since yesterday. It wouldn't have been my approach, though, to do that while we are working on coming to a consensus on notability guidelines.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:38, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
It reminds me a bit of the category and portal wars, or worse, the infobox wars. One side says include, the other says delete. One might be left with the impression that those crying delete are paying for the servers that host our articles and are running out of space. What harm is there in keeping both standalone articles and a list? Jiminy Cricket, when the opposition keeps reverting relevant information from a stub using weak or misleading excuses for doing so, they're preventing article expansion, and that is highly disruptive. How does that help our readers who want to know more about a particular lake, or maybe they're researching a state's stocking efforts? I learned that Bachelor Lake is a private, protected lake and that it plays an important role in the watershed. It's important in its current state as a natural aquatic ecosystem; one that is being utilized by the DNR for rearing walleye. The other option for the DNR would be expensive hatcheries that have enough land for rearing ponds, and that requires taxpayer dollars. There is alot more to be said for watershed lakes that most people who live in the city don't understand but can learn more about it on WP. Just because we're not finding more sources online doesn't mean they don't exist. It means editors have to spend more time researching - checking libraries, government agencies, newspaper archives, books - that's how we build the encyclopedia. If after we've exhausted those avenues and still can't find any sources, then we've got a stub to keep - who knows what might develop in the years to come that will allow us to expand the article? Bottomline here, the opposition should not be throwing obstacles in our path when we're working to make articles better. Atsme Talk 📧 00:36, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Alrighty then. I know one person mentioned that they use the "will it fit in a table" approach to whether an article should be a stub or not. I usually use the "it anyone using the lake" approach... is there information about facilities, fishing, wildlife sanctuary, etc... which I guess ends up being the same thing. I agree that at the end of the day, having a few stub articles isn't a bad thing. The only thing is where it could lead. Should Wikipedia be used to have what could be potentially millions of articles about lakes when in most cases there is a little information.
I feel good about where Bachelor Lake is now. More content has been found.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree, Carole. Actually, I think a bit more can be added. The historic reference to the proximate area description around the lake does belong in the article. What I added was historic, a quote, and properly cited. Fertile ground is not uncommon for major watershed areas, river bottom land, lowlands, etc. but I will find another source now that the material has been reverted/challenged. See the map, and the classification of Bachelor Lake as a protected SL management water. Yet another RS found to verify the lake's classification and size (79.80 acres), despite the naysayers insisting there were no RS. I'm of the mind that, as a rule, we should not be too quick to delete articles that we think are borderline WP:GEOLAND simply because a Google search failed to return enough sources to establish notability. Nothing should prevent us from trying harder to find more RS - maybe use a slightly different approach and not give up too quickly. Building an encyclopedia is not for the impatient. Certainly common sense should apply if, for example, the body of water is a manmade ditch along some remote farm road; although, the ditch would be notable if, while fishing for crayfish, Little Joey discovers the remains of Jimmy Hoffa in the middle of it. 😳 🦴

Another quick thought - it doesn't hurt to consult experts, or at least editors who have some common knowledge about the topic. Knowing what to search for and the best angle to approach can prove highly beneficial, as does maintaining an open mind when collaborating, which is exactly what you have done, CaroleHenson - thank you! And the same applies to Lightburst and 7&6=thirteen. I have worked with Thirteen in the past, and our collaborations have been a net positive. I understand your concerns about having millions of articles with little information - WP:STUBDEF. Fortunately, WP has reviewers in WP:AfC and WP:NPP who do an outstanding job - (several of our admins have come from NPP). I help when I can, and typically encourage stub creators to expand their articles or at least get them to start class. Stub or longer, if an article is not notable, or it's unsourced, questionably sourced or pure promotion we simply decline it; therefore, WP does have some level of protection. NPP is always looking for new prospects to join the team (hint, hint). Atsme Talk 📧 20:07, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@Atsme and CaroleHenson:I appreciate you both. I have been working on other lake projects. The both of you are exactly what Jimbo had in mind when he kicked off this amazing project! Lightburst (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

John J. Audubon’s Birds of AmericaEdit

"An Old Coot Flapping His Wings" - Atsme's contribution to the WP Avian Collection.
"It's A Cardinal Sin To Shoot The Bird" - another of Atsme's contributions to the WP Avian Collection.

You may be familiar with this, but here are all of the pictures, free to download in very high resolution:

I suspect this is because the copyright has expired. Would that mean we can use them here? -- BullRangifer (talk) 21:11, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

What a wonderful resource, BR - thank you!! Atsme Talk 📧 22:51, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
BullRangifer, the Audubon collection is copyright protected - see ToU. They allow restricted use/downloads of the plates but we could not use them because of their imposed restrictions. Atsme Talk 📧 23:09, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
The Audubon Society certainly can copyright content that they have published since 1924, but John J. Audubon's work was published almost a century before that, and therefore cannot possibly be protected by copyright. Those particular images are in the public domain. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:19, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
Cullen, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The published "collection" at the Audubon website is copyrighted. See Stanford's overview. I clicked on the image Martin provided here (thanks for pointing that out, Martin), and see that it was digitally enhanced and copyrighted by Rawpixel. See the Commons category. Atsme Talk 📧 00:34, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Here is my opinion. The entire "collection", as it were, was created and published by John James Audubon in the early 19th century, and so that entire collection is also in the public domain. Routine digital enhancement of a public domain image does not create a new copyright. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Cullen, is there any way I can encourage you to become an admin on Commons? The tendency there is sometimes a bit extreme; i.e., to err on the side of caution, even when it's overly extreme caution. Example: I uploaded some images from a "historic collection" (which happened to be my personal historic collection), and I had to jump through rings of fire to keep them from being deleted. Commons can be very strict about such things. Also, take a look at this Getty "circus" - they prevailed in the first case. With the latter in mind and the rising costs of litigation, I can understand why Commons assumed the position it did - it saves a lot of legal fees and grief. Putting all that side, I just want to say that BullRangifer's post was still very helpful and my thank you to him holds true. Even if we choose to avoid the Audubon website to download images (where they force you to commit before you can download the plate), at least he made us aware or reminded some editors that the images are available, and that's a good thing. 😊 Thank you to all who expressed their views. It was enlightening. And now I have a teleconference to attend. Atsme Talk 📧 01:57, 14 January 2020 (UTC):

Well, I don't understand all the ins and outs of copyright issues, but it's a great collection, and we now have a large canvas picture of "Plate CCCLXVIII Rock Grous" hanging on our wall. I have shot many of them in Greenland. Delicious little bird!
This collection is different than the other images on their website, which are not public domain. It would be great if we could use them in our bird articles.
An original, full-sized, copy of this book recently sold for $9.65 million, the second-highest price ever paid for this book. I have a modern version I got on ebay for $55. It's great. The large images are 20% of their original size and the smaller images are reduced to 80%, IIRC. -- BullRangifer (talk) 01:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Beautiful, indeed. The National Audubon Society was involved in at least 2 specials I produced in the past involving threatened & endangered species - (a) the piping plover, re: endangered populations and (b) the interior least tern, an endangered species. I sat in a bird blind on a sandbar in the middle of the Mississippi River every day for a week. The highest temperature radiating up from the sandbar in July (early to mid 1990s) between high noon until late afternoon was 140º. (I was there with a biologist from Dyersburg State Community College (logistics) but we did not officially record the temp for some unknown reason.) Some useful info, the program, and FWS pg 18, North Dakota. 🥵 Atsme Talk 📧 03:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Chiming in here (as a admin on Commons), those images are certainly in the public domain (they were published long before any modern copyright laws even existed), and they can't be copyrighted retroactively. However, uploading them under a modern CC license, as in the vulture image used here[6], is ludicrous, as that licence of course did not exist back then either; the image is simply PD US. Just because it has been digitally touched up does not make it a new work (as a WP:derivative work could be), and no new copyright can be claimed just for that. FunkMonk (talk) 14:20, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing the copyright issue at Commons, FunkMonk (A). I found an entire category of Rawpixel's CC0 images, and Audubon images that can be downloaded as CC0 (PD) here. Those downloads are free of restrictions/commitments like what the Audubon website imposes on their downloads. Adding another useful link for PD images that you can download without restrictions: Boston College Libraries. 16:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC) And the result here, my wikifriends, is what productive collaboration looks and feels like. 😊 Atsme Talk 📧 15:39, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Arbitration case openedEdit

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kudpung. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kudpung/Evidence. Please add your evidence by January 28, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kudpung/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, CodeLyokotalk 05:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ugh...this case makes me sad.Atsme Talk 📧 17:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Stay away from that mess. This is big brother MONGO advice.--MONGO (talk) 19:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Your input is requestedEdit

at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Next issue/Community view before Friday.

Only 100 or so words. It should be fun and serious at the same time.

All the best,

Smallbones(smalltalk) 01:44, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I'll try, Smallbones, but I need a bigger window of opportunity. RL has been all-consuming this month.Atsme Talk 📧 03:00, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Maltese (dog)Edit

Hello Atsme, I'm writing to you because yuor nmae is in the list of the "WikiProject Dogs" and you're one of the last still active. There's a discussion you might be interested in, here. I'd be glad to know your opinion about this matter, so I hope that you'll read the thread I opened. Thank you in advance if you decide to join. (talk) 08:32, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Documentary suggestionEdit

To my tp watchers who may be interested in what's going on underwater from one perspective: Chasing Coral - search Netflix. I just want to add that El Niño is and always has been a factor, and it has been occuring for thousands of years. See Coral bleaching which is a normal occurrence but there are extenuating circumstances to consider as they may influence how quickly corals recover, if/when indeed they do. Keep in mind that this type of underwater research is relatively new considering coral reefs first appeared some 485 million years ago. On Bonaire, what we've found to be an immediate danger to the coral reefs that fringe our little island, in addition to natural occurrences, is human activity. People who are unfamiliar with the undersea world tend to think that the removal/introduction of fish & other marine species will have no negative effect on the delicate balance of an aquatic ecosystem, or that they can dump anything into the ocean and it will simply disappear, or perhaps they just don't care (out of sight-out of mind). Atsme Talk 📧 15:39, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

You big greeney!!!--MONGO (talk) 21:35, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
  Atsme Talk 📧 10:06, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Raai LaxmiEdit

Hi, if you have OTRS permission could you check to see the birth date mentioned in OTRS ticket # 2016051310004058 cited in the infobox. Currently there's disruptive editing going on and I cannot point point out which one is the original version. I think 1980 is too old for her. 2409:4073:49D:E5B4:AC2E:378F:D3E6:B0A8 (talk) 09:15, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

The correct date is shown in the infobox - 05/05/1089. Atsme Talk 📧 09:54, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer newsletter February 2020Edit

Hello Atsme,

Source Guide Discussion

The first NPP source guide discussion is now underway. It covers a wide range of sources in Ghana with the goal of providing more guidance to reviewers about sources they might see when reviewing pages. Hopefully, new page reviewers will join others interested in reliable sources and those with expertise in these sources to make the discussion a success.


New to NPP? Looking to try something a little different? Consider patrolling some redirects. Redirects are relatively easy to review, can be found easily through the New Pages Feed. You can find more information about how to patrol redirects at WP:RPATROL.

Discussions and Resources

Geographic regions, areas and places generally do not need general notability guideline type sourcing. When evaluating whether an article meets this notability guideline please also consider whether it might actually be a form of WP:SPAM for a development project (e.g. PR for a large luxury residential development) and not actually covered by the guideline.

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16:08, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Thank you for going to Talk:International Loadstar. You were the outside POV I was hoping for. Sammy D III (talk) 22:29, 15 February 2020 (UTC)