User talk:Martinevans123/Archive 13

You've been ignoring too many rules

And that's apparently why no one has wished you Happy New Year. When we said "All Rules" we didn't mean "all rules". Why is this so hard to understand? Softlavender (talk) 06:44, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Just a get a groove on, Softy! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:43, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

I'll allow it. Gotta love a New Years song I can dance to. Softlavender (talk) 09:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

I went to the shops yesterday looking for a helium balloon with "Happy New Year!" on it, but they had sold out. The trick is to buy them uninflated in advance, then ask them to blow it up when you need it. So we'll have to make do with this photo. The lady in the shop then said "We've got silver helium balloons in the shape of numbers, you could make "2019" with them." This was a clever suggestion which hadn't occurred to me, because it would have required buying four balloons instead of one. They did have rubber balloons with "Happy New Year!" in the shop, but I couldn't be bothered blowing them up.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:13, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like the sort of shop that would sell you 2019 candles. They must make a mint. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Happy 2019 – a Time for thanks and praise, - nobody wishing you well, both ;) - anybody to fill the red link while I go out? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:02, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Plenty of online shops sell balloons spelling out 2019.[1]. But I would have been happy with just the one.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:12, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, always better to go for something really unique. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Unique enough for me to have the TFA and the pictured DYK, with "my" music, and Amos Oz remembered ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:03, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

A very impressive combination, Gerda! Well done.Martinevans123 (talk) 15:15, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

pictured:

Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht

Happy 2019 -

begin it with music and memories

Thank you for brightening many of my days last year, Martin. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Please check out "Happy" once more, for a smile, and sharing (a Nobel Peace Prize), and resolutions. I wanted that for 1 January, but then wasn't sad about having our music pictured instead. Not too late for resolutions, New Year or not. DYK that he probably kept me on Wikipedia, back in 2012? By the line (which brought him to my attention, and earned the first precious in br'erly style) that I added to my editnotice, in fond memory? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Gwin poeth sbeislyd i chi ...

... gan yr hen Gymro; rwy'n gobeithio eich bod wedi cael gwyliau Nadolig gwych ac rwy'n dymuno 2019 heddychlon i chi! That is Welsh and translates to: Spicy hot wine for you from the old Welshman; I hope you have had a great Christmas holiday and I wish you a peaceful 2019! Thank you for your excellent work on the 'pedia. Sincerely, Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Do the first six not count? But thanks anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I am slow in noticing ;) - First edit day is a different thing. Can you help me helping LouisAlain finding refs? Several of his articles were made drafts just because refs are missing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:50, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I will try and take a look. Any articles in particular? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:51, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I can go to his most recent archive and look for "draft" in headers, and copy them, but so could you ;) - I took care of Marianne Schech and Hetty Plümacher (who were not made drafts, but tagged citations required). I am slow and go on a pace of one article per day, while he seems to produce five ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Comme ça? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Oui. Like this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:03, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Et maintenant.... j'ai du pain sur la planche! Have copied all that from fr-wiki, but there were no in-line sources haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:27, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

That's the problem. French and German articles have few if any inline citation, - they rely on books. Don't think the one I sprinkled was there before, - you have to find one. To be more precise: the book was there as Literatur, but you still have to find the page number and link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah ja, ich sehe, alles ist klar. Vielen Dank. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Last call for Christmas decoration, both English and German. - I heard a great soprano as Bellini's Elvira, - RTscLwCRliQ - see? Will translate Czech article without knowing a word of that language ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Tredegar House

Happy New Year, Martin. Heavens, six years on from you and I arguing with an IP over whether TH was in Monmouthshire, and it remains a p*ss-poor article. I know architecture collaborations aren't your thing, but I hope someone's interested. While I'm here, if you do find yourself at a loose end, Sissinghurst Castle Garden is up for Peer Review, here, [2], and my co-nominator and I would much appreciate any comments/suggestions/corrections. And while I'm round with the begging bowl, Grade II* listed buildings in Monmouthshire is only 8 photos short of a full house. Should you happen to be out with the box brownie. I'm determined we'll have Monmouthshire lists with images and articles for each Grade I and II* - something I don't believe exists for any other Welsh or English county! Not that I'm competitive. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 14:56, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

p.s. Have just noticed your Category. Why on earth are you looking to be adopted? I'm assuming it is this way round, rather than your offering to adopt? One shudders to imagine the wholly-inappropriate advice you'd hand out to some innocent newbie! KJP1 (talk) 15:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I'll have you know that I've argued over some of the very worst p*ss-poor articles ever. And proud of it too, of course. As for the adoption scandal, feel free to blame Irondome (as the rascal was then known. I think). Meanwhile, I do hope we can eventually see Grade II* listed buildings in Monmouthshire with nothing left to be desired. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:54, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Alastair Appleton

First of all, many thanks for your edits to the article on Alistair Appleton. I hope you do not mind, but I changed BBC Two to BBC One. Escape to the Country goes out on BBC One on Sunday afternoon, so I thought this would make sense. Vorbee (talk) 09:03, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Vorbee. The Escape to the Country article suggests it appears on both BBC Two and BBC One. So maybe we should have both channels there? Or else just put "BBC" to be simpler? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:17, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Or would that be an example of Muntzing? – Sca (talk) 14:20, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Well yes maybe, haha. A risk I am prepared to take. Let's all embrace lean thinking. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:34, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Muntzing isn't necessarily a bad thing. It worked for Madman Muntz. Sca (talk) 15:00, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Wow. Quite a visionary. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:07, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Our first TV, in about 1951, was a Muntz with a 'giant' 21-inch screen. It worked for decades, eventually winding up in the basement "rec room." Sca (talk) 15:26, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for above comments. As Escape to the Country is sometimes on BBC One and sometimes on BBC Two, I have changed the article on Alistair Appleton now so that it just says that "Escape to the Country" is broadcast on BBC television. Vorbee (talk) 18:15, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

• I have just read what muntzing is in the article on muntzing, and fail to see why changing BBC One or BBC Two to BBC television could be seen as an example of muntzing. Vorbee (talk) 18:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

• I think the basic idea was "minimum required for it to function" i.e. we don't need to specify which channel, just "BBC"? I think perhaps SCA was just a trifle frivolous, as is also my wont occasionally. But I ended up learning something, so I'm quite grateful. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Alice

I do admit to being a bit of a fan of Alice Roberts' documentaries on evolution, genetics and ancient history - it's just the text I took out looked far too much like a personals ad in my view. I just can't see the same being written about, say, Billy Connolly, even though he's got a much stronger association with cycling. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:07, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I can see what you're saying. I'd also want to avoid that Hello-type of sleb trash like "her favourite colour is purple and she loves mango yoghurts". I was just struggling to find actual policy on this. If you wanted to remove again, I will not revert you! Goodness me, we don't want to make it look like we actually live next door, do we. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:17, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Actually I was more interested in trying to find something to say about the Big Yin and bikes that wasn't that joke, but I'm struggling - wasn't there a film in the 1970s that showed him cycling all over Scotland? It was long before the motorbike trips. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:21, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah right. Sorry for steering away there. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Salt-Water Poems and Ballads

Frederick Keel set three of the poems, but "Trade Winds" is by far the most famous of those settings. Here's Bryn Terfel singing the whole cycle. Narky Blert (talk) 15:28, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Narky. With Malcolm Martineau too. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:32, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

unsourced DoB

Swiftly undone, not afforded Wikipedia:Assume good faith? I had left off the direct link for privacy as her business was formed at the couples' home in Sale. 80.234.255.97 (talk) 23:42, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

I've opened a thread at Talk:Dianne Oxberry to explain/ discuss.Sorry if you feel aggrieved, but non-sources in edit summaries don't really count. Please comment over there? Any suggestions welcome. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:02, 12 January 2019 (UTC) p.s. all I can see for Oxberry at Companies House is "August 1967".

They redact the day of the month nowadays, but PDF scan of Incorporation document gave an exact date and her husband was Secretary. The date ought to be correct, just drill down to Filing history. However, I fail to find any corresponding hit to prove those are her birth name(s). 80.234.255.97 (talk) 00:26, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

The Nov date is now published in the Sun! Unearthed support of earlier change in an unremarkable place, to 'skirt' policy. 80.234.255.97 (talk) 01:52, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

We can't use The Sun as it's a tabloid. Perhaps they copied the date from here? But the Twitter sourced written by Oxberry herself looks quite convincing. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:29, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

RE: Tommy Cooper

Hi Martin. When I said "Most articles" I meant UK bios as a whole. Most articles I've seen tend to omit the UK as a place of birth or death, just listing the constituent country instead. For example, George Best's page states he was born in Northern Ireland and died in England. I don't think there's a particular MoS policy regarding it, just as I said, a matter of consistency. I may be wrong though. Samuel J Walker (talk) 17:40, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

OK, so how many have you seen? Or maybe any attempt at consistency in infoboxes, for use of UK constituent countries, is a waste of time. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:31, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I would agree with Samuel J Walker, particularly in this case -- "London, England" makes much more sense than "London, UK". Constituent countries seem to generally be listed in infoboxes, particularly in the case of devolved member countries (which doesn't happen to be the case in the current example, but maybe that proves the overall point). Softlavender (talk) 06:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, I see that Template:Infobox person says:

"For modern subjects, the country should generally be a sovereign state; for United Kingdom locations, the constituent countries of the UK are sometimes used instead, when more appropriate in the context."

Which kind of begs the question of what is that "context"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:51, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Generally natives of Scotland identify as being Scottish unless the family moved quickly, or (as an actor or broadcaster, etc.) they moved as an adult and didn't retain their Scottish accent. The same is usually true for NI; I can't speak for Welsh natives but maybe you or Gareth Griffith-Jones can, plus if a town name is clearly in the Welsh dialect language it's advisable to indicate it's in Wales rather than simply "UK". Also, I've rarely heard or read references to "London, UK", whereas references to "London, England" are nearly ubiquitous -- so that's the context for that. Softlavender (talk) 09:58, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

The "Welsh dialect"? Oh! What's occurrin'?? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:02, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah, yes. Place-name signs in Wales are all, by law, in English and Welsh. But never in Wenglish. I'd be very surprised indeed, however, to see Welsh place names, written in Welsh, in any infobox on English Wikipedia. I'm not sure if Tommy Cooper ever strongly self-identified as Welsh, or English, as opposed to British. Martinevans123 (talk)

I'm talking about town names like Aberystwyth, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Cwmamman, Cwmbran, etc. It's Cooper's death place (not his birthplace) that was in question here. By the way I think that infobox template documentation is altogether inane; in the body text of most any article anywhere on Wikipedia, biography or otherwise, we generally name the constituent country when referring to any British town or city where we name/add a country; why should that information be tossed out the window in an infobox? It makes no sense (to me). Wikipedia is for readers, and should offer the most specific and informative data possible. In bios, the lede sentence can say "British" (if that's how they identify), but the infobox and body text should specify the specific constituent country. Anyway, I'm trying to find who added or created that wording in the template documentation, but I can't figure it out because it's a transclusion and I can't find the transcluded template. (Also, the language in that template isn't even internally consistent: In the "Parameters" section, "birth_place" says "city, administrative region, country"; but in the "TemplateData" section "Birthplace says "city, administrative region, sovereign state".) Anyway, I think the wording of the instructions about the United Kingdom should be altered to reflect standard common usage. Softlavender (talk) 12:31, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

A very good idea. You have my support. But Aberystwyth is spelled "Aberystwyth" in English and "Aberystwyth" in Welsh? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:08, 16 January 2019 (UTC) (.... although, admittedly, the Welsh spelling of Cwmbran is Cwmbrân)

I have been considering the fact that the anglification of Aberystwyth never happened. I suppose you could say the same about Abergavenny—but I am guessing that trips off the English tongue easily and the conquering English didn't bother. Nice to get your involvement. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:10, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Taiwan, anyone?? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:16, 17 January 2019 (UTC) ... but not sure why we have that jolly Irish diddly-i music going on there, instead of some nice harps or male-voice choirs...... and who did they get to exemplify Llanfair PG ...some Polish guy??

Thanks

Hi Martinevans123 and thanks for your support in rough seas. LouisAlain (talk) 16:15, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

"Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." ― Otto von Bismarck.

No worries. Editing at Wikipedia isn't always a pleasure cruise, is it. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Rough sea indeed... LouisAlain (talk) 19:47, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

"When you're rocked on the ocean, rocked up and down, don't worry

When you're spinning and turning round and around, don't worry

You're just feeling sea-sick, you're just feeling weak

Your mind is confused and you can't seem to speak

It's just the motion, it's just the motion." - Richard and Linda Thompson

..... well, either that or someone's kindly looking over you, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

......one is reminded of that old traditional French folk ballad, of which the earliest printed example is found in the book Parodology (1927). Martinevans123 (talk) 14:54, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

..... or even this classic by that nice Mr Robbie Zimmerframe:

"While preachers preach of evil fates

Teachers teach that knowledge waits

Can lead to hundred-dollar plates

Goodness hides behind its gates

But even the president of the United States

Sometimes must have to stand naked."

Talking Heads

Stop changing "were" back to "was" in the Talking Heads article. Just because they are an American band doesn't mean it's a singluar name, look at articles like The Doors, The Smashing Pumpkins or Red Hot Chili Peppers, who are all used as plural nouns than singluar, and you think it's not okay to use that example in the Talking Heads article? Well fuck you! 50.250.226.106 (talk) 00:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

So I just did. "The Doors was an American rock band formed in Los Angeles in 1965". ?? Martinevans123 (talk) 00:14, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

I think this may end badly for you. Especially with the abuse. "Still, I believe what's correct and incorrect over you." isn't the most convincing edit summary rationale, is it? Martinevans123 (talk) 00:19, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

I see some anon IP geolocating to San Jose, California has just added this to the article code: <!-- Proper nouns that are plural in form take a plural verb in both American English and British English. Please do not change "were" to "was". --> Fine by me, if they've got consensus. And I see that User:Ohnothimagain has also changed The Doors too. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Who's next, the Flamin' Groovies? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:59, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Maggie Smith

Correct! Maggie Smith has had an extensive career! 62.30.13.140 (talk) 15:03, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

You just claimed she had died? You need to provide a pretty good source for that. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:05, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

And what's all this about? A distant relation perhaps? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Martin, You really are routing out the idiots today in this (was not sub-sectioned) and the one immediately above this. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 15:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Deeply flattered, old boy. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:14, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

FYI [3] Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:52, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. Only 7 hours left. Not a very long time in sockland, I fear. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Daily Mail cartoon

In which Elton John becomes involved.[4] Although I don't usually dash to Prince Philip's rescue, the problem is that saying sorry is often regarded as an admission of legal liability.[5][6] I rest my case, M'lud.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:38, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Haha. I'm sure Philip has got it all sorted with Mishcon de Reya. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:47, 22 January 2019 (UTC) ".... with The Telegraph reporting that Philip works on a "wake up and see if I crash the car" basis when deciding whether to attend an event or not." .... useful link, in case you are reading Philip

“It said all money raised from the online auction would go to Cancer Research UK, with the price reaching £65,900 after 139 bids.” Too bad the listing was removed, as it was al in aid of charity. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

The eBay listing definitely says "taking the piss here", as do some of the bids. The people at the Antiques Roadshow would want to know the provenance before giving a valuation. The 1964 car crash is interesting, because cars were much less sturdy in those days and seatbelts were not compulsory, so the Duke and the Queen had a lucky let off.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:29, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, and in 1964 zoom lenses were a lot smaller too, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:18, 25 January 2019 (UTC) ....

According to Reported Road Casualties Great Britain, there were 7,985 deaths on Britain's roads in 1966 and 1,793 in 2017, which is less than a quarter of the peak 1960s figure. Not everything in the good old days was better.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

That's quite surprising. As a percentage of total vehicles the difference must be considerably larger. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

.... and 196 was 8 years nearly 20 years before seat belts were compulsory, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:29, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps the ghost of Jimmy Savile should haunt Buckingham Palace and say "Clunk Click Every Trip". Wearing seatbelts became compulsory in Britain in January 1983.[7] At the time that Savile made Clunk Click Every Trip public information films, this was advice but people could not be forced to do it, guys and gals.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:47, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, he was "granted unprecedented access across all of the royal palaces," allegedly. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:20, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Not about you

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. R2 (bleep) 18:31, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. I was unaware that it was "an issue" when I reverted. Not sure what to make of "weqweeqwe". Your Portuguese is evidently much better than mine. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:35, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Prorogation

But Mogg used the word "prorogue". His choice. He likes old fashioned words. And in fairness, (1) so do I and (2) if he'd used the word "suspend" I'd probably have slept through the whole report .... Charles01 (talk) 10:14, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, quite agree. It's just that I'm now waiting for that knock on my Talk page door from the irrepressible DAB bot. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:17, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

I suppose, on looking at the DAB page on which you landed, I'd agree that "Prorogation in the United Kingdom" needs its own entry. Why do the Canadians get all the fun? I guess we need a volunteer. Which is, indeed, often the answer to most everything. Charles01 (talk) 10:31, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Perhaps poor Jacob just needs a bit of a longer holiday to establish a few more offshore investment funds? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:37, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Publications "plural" comes from a google clickety tour. How many sources would you like? I thought the Daily Mail the most appropriate in the circumstances, but if someone (you?) wants to dig out another half dozen it looks eminently doable! Charles01 (talk) 10:20, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

My experience is that all article claims have to be supported by sources as appropriate. We can't rely on the readers actually bothering to search for themselves. If there really are multiple sources, the hidden note I have added might be addressed and removed, I guess. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:32, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Nothing is certain. But it seems likely that if we wait another few hours, the cousins may get out of their beds and we may be able to add a wholesomely American source. Or two. I haven't read your hidden heckle yet (but certainly will): if you expressed doubts about taking an English tabloid newspaper as a reliable source for anything then yes, I share your unease. Charles01 (talk) 10:50, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Whatever can you mean? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:53, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Meanwhile I see our friend "old Paley" has swiftly gone for an article guillotine motion of his own? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:05, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

The ping didn't work (maybe a tutorial would help?), but here I am anyway. Yes, as per my edit summary, this addition as it stands is not, in my view, of sufficient punch and rigour to be included in the article. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:21, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Some of us are still trying to bend it like Beckham. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:33, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition

On 26 January 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Hugh McIlvanney, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Hoorah!! Only 12 hours, lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:06, 26 January 2019 (UTC) User:Drchriswilliams actually deserves it!

Hoorah!! After two recent deaths in a row, Wilma Lipp and Jean Guillou, I'll have someone alive (!) and 90 on January 30 2019 (!): look in a few minutes at Werner Bardenhewer (or my talk), - I need sleep ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:55, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Lady Jane Grey

Hello!

I don't know enough about the topic to fix it or weigh in on the facts, but it looks like when you tried to fix some vandalism/sock puppetry on Lady Jane Grey's article (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lady_Jane_Grey&oldid=880681345) you might have made some mistakes - the most recent edit shows that she will die in March of 2019 (which won't happen for a few weeks), and that she reigned for 48 years. I don't want to revert to something else that might also be incorrect (but I'm not sure what the correct info is or if there is any legit controversy) - can you check your edit please?

Thanks! Ben the Bos (talk) 20:58, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

How very odd. I'll take a look shortly, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:01, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Sorry about that. It seems I restored a bit too much. Should now correct. Many thanks for your swift message here. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Olivia Colman

Ironically, the Sky News article about this has a link at the top of the page, saying Why you can trust Sky News. As you've pointed out, Sky News has probably copied this off a press release like everyone else. It would be a brave person who assumed that news outlets do much independent fact checking nowadays. Sky News says "We expect our journalists to be accurate at all times, but they are only human, and sometimes mistakes are made. That is why we have an established process for dealing with factual errors quickly and appropriately. Anyone watching or reading Sky News content can get in touch, with contact details published here". I wonder if this would make any difference, though.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:30, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

"We expect our Wikipedia editors to be accurate at all times, but they are only human, and sometimes make deliberate mistakes just to annoy Olivia Colman". Anonymous school friend 123 (talk) 16:33, 29 January 2019 (UTC) [8]

The depressing and worrying thing is that if she had said in the podcast that Jimmy Wales groped her bum at a film premiere, all of the newspapers would likely have reported it by now without any further fact checking. While people have a right to say what they like, journalists are supposed to do some fact checking.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:59, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, an interesting thought. Or even if she had groped Jimmy's Wiki buns of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:06, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

I was at university with her and David Mitchell so I can confirm she's 55 years old. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:17, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Goodness me, the plot thickens considerably now. As you know, we can't believe you, because that's just WP:OR hearsay. But I think you might want to contribute at the David Tennant podcast fansite? User:Berean Hunter will also be very amused to hear this, I'm sure Martinevans123 (talk) 17:26, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Nah, I'm shitting you. We were there in the early 1990s, she's spot on. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

I never knew you were at Homertion dearie! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:33, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Some other place. See also: Footlights. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah, that's simply divine, luvvie!! mwah! mwah!. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

No, I just watched them (and Robert Webb), and lived with Mitchell, I didn't do the luvvie shit. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:38, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

You lived with the great David Mitchell!? Goodness, you are practically Royalty. Shucks, another dream shattered *sob, sob*. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Hell yeah. And the Chairman of selectors too. And the genius Brexit commentator. To name but a few. One day I'll link you to my own article, you bad cheeky chops! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:48, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Great news. I'll be more than happy to vandalize your date of birth, you toff. Redbrickevans123

1 month block

No idea what you think you were doing, but reposting a page already deleted for copyvio, with minimal but clearly insufficient attempts to olve the copyvio, is a bad move in any case, and certainly when you already have a history of copyright problems.

When you write (outside of the already too long quote relative to the length of text of the original)

• "After returning to France, Chaperon began working with his former classmate Auguste Rubé, with whom he had worked at from Ciceri's workshop at the Opera. Together they provided the sets for many lyrical works staged in Paris. Composer Jules Massenet commissioned them to design sets for his le Cid in the city in 1885. Chaperon could have drawn on memories of his travels in Spain to help evoke the warm atmosphere of the opera."

and the original has

• "De retour en France, il s’associe avec son ancien condisciple de l’atelier de Cicéri à l’Opéra, Auguste Rubé. Ensemble, ils fournissent les décors pour de nombreuses œuvres lyriques jouées sur les scènes parisiennes. Ce fut le cas lorsque le compositeur Jules Massenet leur commanda des décors pour son Cid en 1885. Philippe Chaperon put facilement puiser dans ses souvenirs pour évoquer au mieux l’ambiance chaleureuse de l’Espagne propre à cet opéra."

then you are not writing your own text based on the information found in that surce, but you are simply following the original text line by line and nearly word for word, just changing (often for the worse, like with the "at from") some things here and there. Fram (talk) 13:21, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

You could have easily removed the parts that you judged to be copyright violations, thereby preserving the article. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

".. following the original text line by line" is usually necessary to preserve the chronology? These are basically just facts. And the lines were fully attributed to the source, which had not been the case in the original article. If the above really constitutes a gross violation of copyright, you need to revdel here too? If the blockquote was too long, in your opinion, but not a violation of copyright, you might wish to copy it here and indicate just how long it should be? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

User:Atlan says this, at AN/I about my initial respove above "His reply to the block notice is concerning. It implies he should be allowed to add copyright violations and that others should fix them. If that's his attitude towards copyvios a 1 month block might not be long enough." No, that's not "my attitude" at all. I can assure you that I had no such intention. I'm very sorry that you might choose to make that implication. I created that article is perfectly good faith, believing I had done enough to avoid any copyright infringements. I was suggesting that Fram could have easily fixed and kept it, even as just a stub, while still blocking me for not taking "due diligence". Perhaps he's not allowed to by his Admin Ts&Cs? From my point of view the deletion of the article is just part of the punishment. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User Fram and User LouisAlain. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks very much for telling me, Andy. Thank you also for your kind efforts there. I do apologize for any of my humour that you find particularly grating. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Really! — "outside of" — I'm speechless. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 15:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Gareth, I've been blocked for a month for poorly paraphrasing three sentences from a fully-attributed non-English source. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC) p.s. I was about to "thank you" for your comment, but one doesn't have access to the "thank" function when one is blocked. So thanks.

So they kick you when you are down (but not out) Huh, it would appear that your past history of tireless diligence matters not a jot. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 16:05, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I think the standard reply is "any amount of article improvement does not make you immune from having to follow policy that applies to everyone". But it does occasionally look like punishing editors for breaking the rules is more important than content creation, or trying to help a fellow editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:23, 30 January 2019 (UTC) .... I think the more sensible question to ask would be "what percentage of the editor's edits are problematic?"

I must admit I had assumed Fram would have User talk:LouisAlain on his watchlist and would see my note to him there. I also assumed he would probably take a quick look at my Sandbox and offer any advice that was necessary. Not part of his Admin brief, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I trust that other, non-involved Admins, might be able to view the material that's been revdel-ed and form their own opinion. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Of course I'm all with you Martin, I know the feeling. Can't say more fear of being blocked until the end of times. Sigh. While blocked I translated The Childhood of a Leader with our common tormentor in mind. But 'nough said.

LouisAlain (talk) 17:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah, it now seems to be "part of pattern" of "troublesome behavior", as at Ben Rich (weather forecaster), which Fran must have been fully aware of when he blocked me? And not dredged up now, after four months, to justify a full month's block. I'd challenge anyone to rewrite a factual statement like this "in their own words": In 2012 Ben joined the Met Office team at the BBC Weather Centre and spent a year presenting UK and global forecasts. Surely, either Rich did this or he didn't? How can one copyright a simple declarative sentence like that exactly? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree, Martin, and just added you to the "rejected" box on my talk. No time for this, and ANI, right now, for the moment just look at Ray's Rules for "Don't waste your time". - It reminds me of Khazar being driven away by copyright violation accusations, and I tried to fix his articles. A terrible loss that was. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda. Ray's Rules are spot on. Even if User:HJ Mitchell thinks I am a "somewhat troubled editor"! Yes, HJ.... troubled by the ton of bricks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

My last block from Fram (an indef, that lasted 2 days), a year ago, was for posting YouTube videos "without bothering to check" if they were copy vios. This one is for paraphrasing three lines of French into English. Not really the same kettle of fish at all, really? I do hope this block is not upheld at AN/I. If it is, I'm sorry to say that I certainly won't be around when it expires. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm not saying Fram doesn't have a point... But I am saying that his response was totally disproportionate. I'd unblock you myself but I'm biased, both by knowing you and by having had previous disagreements with Fram over his approach to good editors who have fucked up. I'd say wait for common sense to prevail, but ANI is terrible at resolving anything other than simple issues so I'm afraid you might be waiting a while. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

HJ, thank you for talking complete sense (as usual). Quite happy to wait (for a while, at least). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank goodness I'm not an admin (and never want to be one), or would unblock you and many others. Never understood how a block of a content editor ever made the encyclopedia better. Needless to say I also had my disagreements with Fram, so shouldn't. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you again, Gerda. No worries. Yes, I'm beginning to also see a pattern emerging, but not the one that Fram is so currently keen on emphasising. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps I need to dial things back a few notches and rethink some of my approaches. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Martin! This page is on my watchlist, so I've seen some of the recent developments. Because of what you wrote above, I looked at Ben Rich (weather forecaster), and was considerably less than encouraged by what I saw. I've suggested at ANI that that page should be sent to WP:CP – it needs to be rewritten pretty much from scratch, I believe. Then, more or less at random, I looked at Museo Casa de la Moneda (Madrid), where it seems that essentially every word is translated directly (and very nicely) from various pages of the website of the museum, with a bit from the FNMT. Do you believe that content to be free for anyone to use? Because I see nothing on this page to suggest that it might be. Sorry ... Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:46, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Justlettersandnumbers. Thanks for pointing that out. It seems I have a bit of a problem with non-English sources. I'm not sure I can avoid the "translated directly" bit, but I may have to adjust the "very nicely" part. Any suggestions on rewriting any of that article would be very welcome. I'll try and go through it. I seem to have an issue with often seeing source material as just "facts" that can't be rewritten without making them untrue, or at least less true. Feel free to check any of my contributions that you suspect. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:26, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

JLAN, the Earwig tool (which I have in my Sandbox and use whenever I can) shows "Violation Unlikely 16.7% confidence". How low does that level have to be to assuage your concerns? Is there a project-wide agreed maximum level? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, I was careless – I should have linked the tool to the specific version of Ben Rich I'd looked at, which was this one. It's now showing as more or less OK because you and Diannaa have made a number of changes. When you use Earwig's tool it really isn't the percentage that counts, but what the tool has marked as copied. If it's a mass of proper names and quoted material, there can be a high percentage but no copyright problem; if it's running text the page may need attention even if the percentage is low. The museum page needs to be completely rewritten, in words that are not those of the sources, preferably removing all existing text (except the opening sentence) before you do so. Please let me know if you need help with or advice on that or any other page. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks for your scrutiny and helpful advice. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:56, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I've made a few changes at Museo Casa de la Moneda (Madrid).If you feel it needs more radical action and/or if you can locate any better secondary sources, I would heartily welcome your input. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

One problem with other Wikipedias is that they often don't point out that their content is "borrowed" from a site, and here you commit copyright violation when you translated and didn't even know it. Happened to me, too, just nobody saw it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:02, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

That is another pitfall, yes, except that in this case Fram had very clearly showed us the source. I just thought I had done enough to get round copyvio. And there wasn't just one source, there were three, all of which I thought I had attributed properly. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Unblocking

Martin, I've unblocked you. A 1 month block in a situation like this is unproductive, and based on the comments at ANI, I think there's enough consensus about this that I'm not sticking my neck out too far here. This unblock is not because there weren't some close paraphrasing/direct translation problems - there were - but because the block button is a clumsy way to educate a good faith editor, and because this had little or nothing to do with the Youtube issues from a year ago. You've previously expressed respect for User:Diannaa's ability to explain copyright issues, so I'll ping her here and ask her to take a look and talk to you about it when she has time. Until then, probably a good idea to stay pretty far away from translations or rewording... --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:59, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thank you Floquenbeam. Drmies (talk) 02:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Martinevans123. Looking back through our previous discussions on your talk page, I found I've already given you my standard advice, here. Content has to be written in your own words and not include any of the source material. One thing I find that works for me is to read over the source material and then pretend I am verbally describing the topic to a friend in my own words. Don't look at the source document while preparing your prose, and you will be much more likely to come up with something fresh! then go back and compare with your source and make sure it's okay before you post your edit. Stuff should also be presented in a different order where possible. Summarize rather than paraphrase. This will typically result in your version being much shorter than the source document. It might be worth your while to have a look at and study this module aimed at WikiEd students. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 22:46, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Dianna. Thank you for that very useful advice. I know you are always very busy. I have made the change you kindly suggested for Ben Rich (weather forecaster). I will certainly take a look at that link. I think the slight difficulty I seemed to have with my wording for Philippe Chaperon was caused by the translation from the original French. I'm sure it could have been easily sorted with just a few tweaks. A great of drama could have been very easily avoided. Anyway, thanks again. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Part of the problem with Ben Rich (weather forecaster) is that the article is based pretty much solely on the one source. What I try to do is have at least three sources and draw on all of them when preparing my edit. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 00:13, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm glad you're unblocked, Martin. This is honestly one of the worst blocks I've seen in quite some time (I say that knowing I've made a few stupid blocks over the years). Nonetheless, take the advice you've been given by Floq and Diannaa (both editors and admins I hold in the highest esteem) and be much more careful in future. Diannaa's point about summarising rather than paraphrasing is particularly worth mulling over. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks HJ. I can't think of anything I've seen you write that I've disagreed with. I have a great deal of respect for your work here. Likewise with the esteem for those two. Diannaa's copyright advice is always excellent and I will certainly take it on board. She's already given a perfect example of just that principle. Meanwhile, I do hope someone will have anther go at creating a better version of Philippe Chaperon. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:05, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Voceditenore did. Joy to the world! - It's a birthday, also, more on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. Looks like it's now in very good hands. Still not sure why it had to deleted twice instead of just being retained as a stub, with the "offending parts" removed and/or revdeled. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:30, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Much as I'm glad this is all resolved, all thing being equal, I'd rather be in mainspace than arguing at ANI. I've lost my appetite for the politics. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I can see why. Main space is pretty monumental, isn't it. But I've heard that In France They Kiss on Main Space (allegedly). Martinevans123 (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC) please provide your own copyright-compliant YT video

omg - unblocked and into quoting joni justlikethat  :) JarrahTree 03:18, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

A great artist and one who deserves quoting, I think. I saw my 8 hours 41 minutes as a "learning opportunty" as, I expect, did some others. Apologies again for the random piping. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

classy piping, to a FA (which hasn't appeared as TFA yet) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:59, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Great to read this excellent result that your one-month ban is quashed and your equilibrium restored.
Thank you, Diannaa, for your considerable help here, and for the link to the dashboard training module; I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I chose all the correct answers to the quiz. Cheers! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Looking at the DDT example in "plagiarism", I think I still have a problem with not being able to use many of the same words in the same order for scientific topics. Science tends to be built on facts. And there's only so far you can go with re-writing facts in you own words. The article says quite plainly "you should paraphrase the ideas and concepts you want to share on Wikipedia: present the information, phrased in a new way" which seems to slightly contradict its earlier advice that one should instead rewrite a whole passage, in one's own words, using a wholly different structure. Glad to say I also got all the quiz answers right. Some of those quiz options are quite scary, though, aren't they? e.g. "Delete your Wikipedia account, because you've been blacklisted as a plagiarist." Who would ever be tempted to do that (after a month-long block, for instance)? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:00, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Martinevans123. I still do not have time to work on articles again. RL will also stop me in the next few months. But I watch what happens. I am glad that you are unblocked. The information from User: Diannaa is very helpful for my planned texts. Especially since I will use English, Spanish, French and more languages as the source of my review of articles. I signed in to Wiki Education - all questions answered correctly. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 21:56, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you Maxim. Yes, Diannaa if one of the most efficient and helpful editors here, I think. RL?Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Real Life — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 23:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes. How easy to forget. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

• So glad that you're free again to participate Martinevans123. I feel a tad annoyed that all this melodrama happened because you tried to rescue a page of mine that was deleted. From now on, no more translations from French or German texts, I simply didn't know it was considered copyvios (yes, it sounds stupid now). I'll link to them without any further fuss. May this piece enlight your heart this morning. Some happy triggers are devoted disciples of Discipline and Punish. Yours, LouisAlain (talk) 05:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks LouisAlain. One of my favourite tracks from the Fablon Four. Along with this one of course, which I'll take as my theme song. Yes, RSI can get to the best of us. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:01, 1 February 2019 (UTC) p.s. and prompted me to remember this genius, who I saw closing the show at Glastonbury Festival in 1982.

ITN recognition for Clive Swift

On 3 February 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Clive Swift, which you updated and nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:42, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks, MSGJ. I always thought Swift's acting was wonderfully subtle. Roy was a real gem of a performance. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Reply

Ouch! Thanks for letting me know Red Director (talk) 15:58, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

No worries. Easily done. I try to delay my cookies until least 5 edits! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Your wish...

...is my command. Not wild about it, but it'll do in a pinch until I can get a better one. PS: one of my body parts illustrates another article on Wikipedia. Care to guess which? :-) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 23:57, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks for that! Have added. I'll be guessing for a while. But I'm really the wrong person to ask. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

I'll give you a hint...although you may just knuckle under and guess. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:00, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Quite a challenge, although I'm sure you'd make a great tackle. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:42, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is there something fishy about that statement? --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:44, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Apologies. I'm just casting about randomly. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:57, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Gareth Griffith-Jones

Re: the below:

(talk page stalker) @ TonyPS214. You are writing almost unbelievable horse shit here. Your opinions are crass; if you question such an esteemed contributor as User:Softlavender on grammar and punctuation in such a rude way, it is you that will be reported for disruptive editing. Back off now before it is too late! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 15:24, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Goodness me Gareth. Are you sure that shouldn't be "horse (shit)" or "(horse) shit"?? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:43, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate the sarcasm; it makes dealing with a user like Gareth Griffith-Jones easier.TonyPS214 16:34, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi TonyPS214. Please excuse my typically lame facetiousness. I am glad if you can see the humorous side to this. And I had hoped you might have been able to resolve your differences without recourse to the dispute resolution notice board. I do hope also that you can take Gareth's somewhat strongly worded comment with a pinch of salt. I'm sure no real offence was intended. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:43, 6 February 2019 (UTC) p.s. I notice that you have been an editor for some years and I'm surprised that you don't sign your posts using four tildes " ~~~~ " - this is a basic procedure that allows other editors to link to User page or Talk page. Thanks.

Fish n' Chips

Fish n' Chips redirects to Fish and Chips

Fish 'n' Chips is its own page.

I don't think it makes sense to have so much depend upon a single . ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 22:34, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

You know the purpose of Template:Redirect, don't you? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Reporting a guy who is a sheer example of Vandalism

On the article of Eddie Vedder, i made an edit adding a quote box to the Legacy section of the page as it was short of content and a template of 'contents to be added' too was placed there. That quotebox comprises of 51 words none of which has been altered in anyway and so it obliges with all the rules and laws(you can check it). But then a wikipedian RegentsPark was witnessed doing disruptive editing as he vandalised the article by reverting that edit just because i am a sockpuppet. An edit is never a sockpuppet and unless it is non-constructive or disruptive, one should not remove it but he did and will surely do it again thats why i again put that quotebox there to show you that. Also RegentsPark has multiple and last warnings on his talk page which says that if he did edit disruptively again he would be blocked but he is proving to be relentless. And i think this is a time to teach him a lesson. Either his adminship be removed or he gets a block, one of these is necessary. Because this is a case of wikipedian taking the avatar of Muhammad bin Tughluq. Wish you have a nice day brother, Keep yourself up like this. Yours useless friend 2405:204:A418:BF64:0:0:1520:B0AD (talk) 04:38, 13 February 2019 (UTC) Edit: One more man, Calton has previously been cautioned many times before for personal attacks and edit warring. And he has just now reverted my edit because "the edit summary doesn't makes sense" as he said about the reason why he did so. Is this some kind of joke? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:A418:BF64:0:0:1520:B0AD (talk) 07:39, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) One might not be blamed for assuming Martin is an admin. Where's your mop? Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I have to admit that my mop went out with the Rutles. But please don't bait real Admins, who may be lurking in the shadows, and who may want to teach me a lesson. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:41, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Ouch! That would hurt more than a bit. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 16:47, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

What you guys are talking about? Even if you aren't admin you can help me by enquiring about these two guys who are openly vandalizing Wikipedia. These two guys have been warned nor once neither twice but nearly 5 times(calton being subject to personal attacks on other editors nearly 10 times). These two guys should be blocked immediately. Please just go on Eddie Vedder page and see the history and quotebox added by me. It should be there and one should praise me too for perseverance to compete against these Wikicheatians but im not asking for praise. Please stop this Marty. Regards 2405:204:A507:3721:0:0:1C46:E8A1 (talk) 17:59, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

We are just talking. It is allowed, you know. But you would be wise to seek help from an Admin. My own advice to you is, as before, very simple: create a user account and stick to it. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

"Marty! Where we're going, we don't need roads." The Rambling Man (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, I'll need to keep my eye on this guy. I'm well aware of this government's transport policy, thank you. But, quite frankly, Wikipedia sometimes starts to seem a little pointless. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:20, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I ain't talking about creating a user account brother. You have a lot of friends who are administrators. For the sake of anti-vandalism you can just address one of them to block these guys. These guys are openly vandalising wikipedia and if not done something now, they will surely cause huge damage to the reputation of Wikipedia someday. I don't need an account because I don't wanna do editing but i saw RegentsPark who has been editing disruptively for many years and this is the time to get that adminship off him or block him because he is too corrupt to be an admin. 47.9.81.186 (talk) 03:45, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Try to understand Martin. They both have so many edits compared to me, an IP address. Others won't give a damn to what I say even if I am right in the situation. I have witnessed it before when peoples like regents park kept provoking and humiliating me unfairly but due to my lack of awareness and no support at all, I couldn't do anything to him. This is the time for the justice and I will do whatever required. 47.9.81.186 (talk) 04:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Is this for real? I feel somebody is about to implode. Why donja? Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

"They both have so many edits compared to me, an IP address." IP addresses can have many edits, often from multiple contributors. Whether this is an advantage for you is another question. There are, however, many advantages to having a registered account. And as far as requesting admin action is concerned, I'm not sure that "friendship" is meant to play any part. But if you are really unable to find anyone to help you, perhaps you could show a diff of an edit here, by one of these editors who have been "witnessed doing disruptive editing", and explain why you think it's "vandalism"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:18, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I dont know how to give diffs. Can you tell me? And after that i will directly take this matter to administrator noticeboard. Cuz i dont see any hope here now.47.9.81.186 (talk) 10:57, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

View history > Prev > (then just copy and paste the url). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Gotcha! I have addressed the problem on Admin noticeboard. If you have time, then go and read my statement and support me if you agree because if you stand by my side then the article will surely get justics. It may sound a bit funny though:)).2405:204:A507:3721:0:0:1C46:E8A1 (talk) 11:51, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Oooh, that sounds a bit accusatory. Let's hope there are no Argentinians watching. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure those two will be exactly quivering in their boots. Oh well. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:40, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Your reinstatement of sock puppet's edit

Hi Martinevans123, I noticed you just undid my revert of the edit by IP user 92.22.145.232 (the one who commented "fuck off") in Fish and chips. This is an obvious sock puppet of long-term-abusive editor Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Shingling334/Archive. He has made the same edit many times, and does this disruptive changing of English-British nationality in many articles. The article has previously said English origin for many years, with sources. Could you undo your edit? Thanks. --IamNotU (talk) 17:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi IamNotU. Fish and chips originates in the United Kingdom, not solely in England. To suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous. I'm very sorry if this sockpuppet has caused trouble elsewhere, but that hardly means an article has to remain factually incorrect, does it? I'm sure I can see the proof that the IP is definitely confirmed as the same editor(although I understand if you have been following them you will know much more about their editing habits than do I). I've just searched the two archives there and I don't see any extensive discussion of England vs Britain, so perhaps that is overdue? Looking at the content of that book source New Ethnicities And Urban Cult by Les Back, it's possible that one could base the argument on the claim that London is the capital of England, but not the capital of Great Britain. That argument seems somewhat fallacious. In fact, saying just "England" in the first sentence seems to make the opening section slightly self-contradictory. I'm very sorry if this causes you a problem, I just think it should be properly discussed. Thanks Martinevans123 (talk) 17:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I agree, but the thing is that it has not been properly discussed, and this block-evading editor is the only one who has made this edit, changing from English to British. He has been causing disruption in this article going back years, edit-warring over this same change ([9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], etc.). It has never received support by anyone else, and has always been reverted, including by several admins. Apart from brief periods before his edits were noticed and reverted (the longest one being the recent period since his last edit in December), the article has said "Fish and chips is a hot dish of English origin", supported by the BBC reference ("It is safe to say it was somewhere in England") since 2013. I would like to restore to the previous long-standing version. If you'd like to get a consensus on the talk page to change it, you're welcome to. I don't have a fixed opinion about it either way, but I don't think it's acceptable to allow this person to get their edit through in this way, in contradiction to the source and undiscussed, after so much disruption, see for example WP:BMB. --IamNotU (talk) 18:47, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I will not revert you. I may open a discussion thread over there. I think opening with "Fish and chips is a hot dish of English origin ..." is less than ideal. Maybe there has been some prior agreement, for reasons of standardisation, by WP:WikiProject Food and drink, that I am unaware of. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Ok, thanks... ps, the IP has now been blocked for his typical antics, which are documented in the SPI file above. --IamNotU (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

If you would take a moment to read that source from Les Back's book, you will see how ironic it is that it's been used to support the notion that fish and chips originate from "English cuisine". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:32, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

The article doesn't say that fish and chips 'originate from "English cuisine"'. It says it's "a dish of English origin", which to my reading is a more precise geographical location than "British". As explained clearly in the next paragraph, the constituent parts are likely Portuguese Jewish fish, and French/Belgian chips, so I'm not sure why "British" is any more applicable than "English". To the extent that the combination of the two means the dish can be said to have "originated" in the UK, the bottom line is that it started out in England, not Scotland, Wales, or Ireland. Back's book supports that, and talks about the importance of immigrants' contributions to English culture and society. Thank-you by the way, for adding the Google books link.

Even if the lead sentence was interpreted as giving some indication of cultural rather than simply geographical origin, in my mind at least, the concept of "English" includes very much a long history of immigration. Though I suppose others may think of it as a white Anglo-Saxon ethnicity, one can't speak of "English cuisine" without mentioning curry for example. As Back says, "the historical denial of the long-standing presence of Africans and south Asians has meant that their contribution to English society has been ignored" - to me, denying the possibility to name fish and chips "English", is again to ignore those contributions, though I suppose the opposite could be argued, that if "English" means "white", then we shouldn't call it that. I guess it depends how you look at it. As I said, I don't have a fixed opinion about it, nor do I find it all that interesting or important as a question to be answered. No doubt there's been some relevant discussion about the meaning of "Englishness", and when to use one over the other, probably somewhere other than the Fish and chips talk page, but I'm not sure where.

What I do know is that going around arbitrarily changing them as the blocked editor does, is considered disruptive. You're completely right though, that fish and chips has become an integral part of British cuisine and culture in general, as can be seen by the "British cuisine" template directly below the infobox. If you'd like to change the "main article" link in the History section from "English cuisine" to "British cuisine", I don't see a problem with that - both articles emphasize the many external influences. But changing the lead sentence, even if there weren't already sources supporting it, would require at least a discussion on the talk page first, which I imagine could lead to drawn out disagreements over semantics, identity politics, and national origins of food, and in the end might not accomplish much of anything... --IamNotU (talk) 13:35, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Well then, I probably won't bother opening a thread. I suspect most dishes "new" to British cuisine, and especially to English cuisine, originated in London. The article opens with ".. a hot dish of English origin..." that piped link is to English cuisine. If you think that should be a purely geographical link, then I guess you should change it. Personally I'm not convinced, but it seems now that it's really not worth the effort. In case I wasn't sufficiently clear above, I do not condone "... going around arbitrarily changing links like that blocked editor does". Kind regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:48, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Just a note of caution Martin, some admins think all editors are fully commensurate with all long-term blocked, banned and generally disruptive sockpuppets, to the extent that if you restore their edits (in absolutely 100% good faith, of course), you are deemed as an "enabler" or a "proxy" and can be blocked yourself for doing so. I speak of this with first-hand experience. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:52, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, thanks. I can look forward to a few more wiki holidays, then. I now see that Panikos Panayi has written a whole book on the subject: Fish and Chips: A History (2014). Surprisingly, there seems to be no mention of his work in the article. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Martinevans123, you're right, I hadn't noticed that piped link. Still, the English cuisine article does emphasize the contributions of immigrants in general, and specifically addresses fish and chips. You were clear that you don't condone arbitrarily changing links as the blocked editor does, sorry if it sounded that way, and I didn't mean to imply that your edit was disruptive. It's clear to me that you were editing independently and in good faith. --IamNotU (talk) 14:20, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for taking time to make that clear. I know how frustrating IP vandals can be. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Changes of Address

I was just listening to the "Change of Address Jam" by Blind Faith and slightly lamented that you don't get hidden gems like this anymore. I mean, you wouldn't get Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood having a jam session when somebody changed their username on here, would you? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:29, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

No, you wouldn't, or even if they just changed their IP. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:41, 15 February 2019 (UTC)....blimey, that jam goes on a bit, doesn't it... like one of the shorter songs by you know who. p.s. just enjoying this gem at the moment....

February 2019

Hello. Regarding the recent revert you made to Bruno Ganz: you may already know about them, but you might find Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace useful. After a revert, these can be placed on the user's talk page to let them know you considered their edit inappropriate, and also direct new users towards the sandbox. They can also be used to give a stern warning to a vandal when they've been previously warned. Thank you. Krenair ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Goodness me, how thoughtful of you. I think I'll just sit back and let you have a go. The last 15 minutes have been a real breeze. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:28, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

User:Krenair, I appreciate you dropping by, with your first edit in 8 days, to remind me about users' talk page warnings templates (which these days I find the need to employ on an almost daily basis). I'm really not sure if you're a huge fan of that particular goatse.cx image, but I didn't feel overly keen to extend any particular courtesy to that Glasgow-based IP vandal. I was expecting an immediate block which, after 14 minutes, was what was eventually given. I'm somewhat surprised you felt the need to remind me to warn such a vandal when, as far as I'm aware, you made no reverts yourself and added no template warnings yourself. I'm the one who needs the "gentle reminder" here? Really?? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:30, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, and I believe the majority of non-registered editors are unaware of their Talk pages. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 19:33, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

I really wasn't expecting an in-depth debate about the relevance of that image on the IP's Talk page. In fact I honestly believe that adding warning templates in those circumstances is a complete waste of time. I was initially also a little surprised about a block of only a one-week, but I guess these sort of vandals are so well used to IP-hopping, that anything longer is also wasted effort. It's very frustrating to be locked in a vandalism revert battle, knowing that all that is needed is a simple block. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:41, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

When my attention was drawn to the page, I found the current version was not vandalised (so nothing for me to revert personally) but I did find a lot of reverts without corresponding warnings/reports. Making edit summaries asking for a block is unlikely to result in fast admin notice and action. I recommend AIV. --Krenair ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your note, Krenair. I'm well aware of AIV. I guess it's a question of how long any of us are prepared to tolerate having an image like that one emblazoned across an article. I was relieved when an anon IP joined in to share the continuous revert burden - and believe me this was continuous, hence the urgency. I'm sorry that I didn't find your message above in any way helpful. I'm sure you were just trying to help. Next time I would urge you to not just take one quick look at the current article version, but instead look at the history to see the pattern of what is going on. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:51, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

I did look at the history. --Krenair ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:15, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I see. And you thought no more reverts would be needed, no warnings were needed on the IP Talk page, and no reporting was needed at AIV. Just a gentle reminder to me to "please do better"?? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Welsh timeline

Hi Martin, I thought you might be interested in this. Iechyd da! Rodney Baggins (talk) 15:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Mae'n bryd dweud wrth y snobs Saesneg hyn ble i fynd! Many thanks for telling me,Rodney. I will help if I can. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Erm, I actually am English, but I'm certainly not a snob! Further to my comment on the Wales Project page, my great grandparents were a Mr. and Mrs. Evans (!) who moved across from North Wales to the Potteries in the late 1800s (I think). My dad's mum's maiden name was Evans, so you and I are probably related somewhere along the line! And Rodney Baggins is only a pen name I use on here, I'd love to tell you my real name, but I really mustn't... Rodney is my white cat's name, hence the infobox pic on my user page (which I got from Commons but it looks exactly like him) and Baggins is just a comical surname I happened to borrow from Tolkein (who incidentally lived for a short time in Kings Heath, which is where I grew up). As for the Welsh timeline, I'm busy compiling a list of pages to pull facts from and I'll post again with a "plan" and hopefully inspire a few others to help because I honestly can't see me doing it all by myself! Rodney Baggins (talk) 11:19, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry "Baggers". Yes, it was another attempted joke, I'm afraid. I resigned from Cymdeithas after I accidentally burned down my own holiday home. I'd also love to tell you my real name, but I really mustn't. But great to hear of a possible family connection! I will try and help, Rodney, and I promise to never call you a complete plonker. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:42, 18 February 2019 (UTC) p.s. you might want to swap notes with Old Threesie. He's also fond of cats (allegedly)!

(edit conflict) @ Rodney Baggins, You are mistaken in supposing that as, "My dad's mum's maiden name was Evans, so you and I are probably related somewhere along the line." Please refer to Welsh surnames ... but well done for starting the Welsh timeline project. All the best! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:54, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

On the flammable accommodation bit, do you remember many years ago one of the TV comedy/current affairs shows, probably Not the Nine O'Clock News, had a brief but funny spoof ad: the NCB campaign "Come Home To A Real Fire" was massaged/segued into "... buy a holiday cottage in Wales!" Etc etc. DBaK (talk) 13:11, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh, yes boyo bach. I remember that as if it was only yesterday. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

What a voice!

Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 13:29, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

"By 'eck lad, t'lass were reet gradely", (as they say east of the Pennines). Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

"and to put a name to face ... as it were". Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 16:56, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

The translated Italian sounds quite different, not surprisingly:

"Once upon a time there was a road

A good wind brought me there

And if memory does not mislead me

At the corner you presented yourself.

Those were the days

Oh yes, those were the days

In the world you can not ask for more

And we also danced without music.

There was much more in our hearts." Martinevans123 (talk) 17:05, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

RID (Recent Iconic Deaths)

Any predictions on how long Karl is going to be lagering behind his iconic dark glasses in the ITN Feld? – Sca (talk) 23:16, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Goodness me. That is inspired. Funniest question I have seen in 2019. ROFWOBVMB' = "rolling on floor with obligatory Bottega Veneta man-bag". Martinevans123 (talk) 23:30, 20 February 2019 (UTC) ... these German youngsters... they know nothing, mere kids with a kink!

About Estonian BLP

Hi, per Template:Infobox person Place of birth: city, administrative region, sovereign state. Soviet union never had sovereignty over Baltic states. See Occupation of the Baltic states. People born in France 1940–1944 are not listed as born in German Reich – Christian Boltanski, Catherine Deneuve, Édith Lejet, Claudine Auger... All Estonian BLP use just Estonia as birth place. --Klõps (talk) 23:26, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

With your kind permission I will copy this over to Talk:Jüri Ratas. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

No problem. Thank You! --Klõps (talk) 23:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I heard Estonian ;) - id=FT-iUcdMVlk - going to sing on 10 March The Deer's Cry. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:36, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the link Gerda. That sounds great. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

February

The Hidden Valley, Negev
... with thanks from QAI

Thank you for article improvements in February, and spirits! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Gerda! It seems one has to be careful with spirits in Estonia. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

No end, now André Previn is no longer a BLP. Can we reference "him" together, perhaps? Part of my memories, his violin concerto played by the dedicatee, if my memory doesn't fail me. - If referencing is unsuccessful, I could perhaps write about that piece. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:37, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

He certainly deserves to be on Main page. Quite an age. Dear old Andrew Preview. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:46, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

He deserves, but it's not my kind of article. Why so much about a LA conflict, + the 5 wives, but not a word about style of music-making? Will write about the concerto ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:27, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

"Any old junk can get into main page as long as it's all sourced." (but please don't quote me on that). Martinevans123 (talk) 19:29, 28 February 2019 (UTC) ... and in 1963, long before Mr Privet: FqHH1UQqIMs

Even before AP reached the Main page, there was interest. (111k+) I managed the concerto, with Ritchie's help. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Well done. A very worthy tribute, as it turned out. I think we rather flatter ourselves that the general reader is ever really directed by what's on Main page. I suspect 95% of traffic for a RD comes direct from Google Search and bypasses Main Page altogether. And of course there's no finesse with ITN - either it's there or it isn't; the process doesn't allow for a posting with a blurb for so many hours and then a demotion back down to plain old RD. All too difficult. Previn may have been "a major transformative world leader in his field", or he may not. I'm not sure I'm very well placed to make that judgement call. I think you'd need an expert to do that. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Wales 21-13 England

Before Saint David's Day we get Saint Josh's Day. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:38, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

2019 Piper PA-46 Malibu crash

Thanks for adding the interim report. The key thing is that the plane was trying to maintain visual meteorological conditions for UK and European Class D airspace by night, which are 5 km flight visibility, 1,500 m horizontally from cloud, 1,000 ft (300m) vertically from cloud. At night, during the winter and over the sea, this may have been difficult. We also know that the flight plan was supposed to be conducted by visual flight rules. I can't help but wondering if maintaining this requirement became too difficult on the night.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:14, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, AAIB obviously think that weather was a factor. That last altitude reading looks erroneous. He ascended again? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:18, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Plus the plane turned back on itself in the final moments of the flight (Figure 10). The pilot may have been increasingly worried about maintaining the required VMC minima for visibility in adverse conditions. It will also be of key importance to learn whether he could fly in instrument meteorological conditions. Without the ability to do this, the plane would have been impossible to fly on a dark night in bad weather.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:27, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I wonder what time he planned to leave? The report says: "The pilot arrived at the airport in Nantes at 1246 hrs on 21 January to refuel and prepare the aircraft for the flight. At 1836 hrs the passenger arrived at airport security, and the aircraft taxied out for departure at 1906 hrs." With the pilot arriving at that time you might have expected a departure of before 15.00? But it was already dark by the time they eventually took off. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:34, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

We also know from the French media that the original take-off time was 10 AM French time on 21 January.[17] Things would have gone awry if the flight went ahead at night and the pilot could not find Class D VMC minima. It would have been like driving down a country lane at night without headlights. Under these conditions, maintaining the flight dynamics is very difficult as there are insufficient visual references. It is now looking very odd that the flight went ahead after dark.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:44, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

• It has also been reported that Ibbotson aborted three attempted takeoffs in Nantes.[18][19] If true, this is astonishing and would lead to serious doubts about his qualifications for the flight. I thought about adding this to the article, but decided to wait for firmer confirmation from the AAIB.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:43, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

• That does seem quite notable, and very alarming. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:48, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

This piece from Private Eye 1489 is also interesting. Ouest-France pointed out within days that the flight plan filed at Nantes Airport was dubious, given that it specified visual flight rules and a take off time of 10 AM French time; the UK media has only just caught up with this.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:58, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes that Eye piece focuses on the fact that neither the pilot nor the aircraft seems to have been properly licensed, But then it's also unclear if Sala was a "fee-paying" passenger or not. Added to that, there's the Facebook post from Ibbotson about "being a bit rusty" on ILS. And then there's the odd/ delayed timing and the conflict with VFR. And there's also Sala's message, while in flight, about the plane looking like it was poorly maintained. And there's also the likelihood the weather turned bad. Plenty of risk factors/ causes for alarm. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

It's also interesting that no expert has said that flying a single engined aircraft over the English Channel at night is illegal. What they have said is that it is inadvisable, eg Alastair Rosenschein here. Perhaps surprisingly, current CAA rules do allow VFR at night.[20] This may have to be looked at if the plane was lost due to VFR failure.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

There is a new piece about Sala in Private Eye 1491.[21] The Robert Murgatroyd case is interesting, more coverage here. Regardless of whether money is or is not involved, it is still against the rules for a private pilot to arrange a flight simply to carry passengers. Obviously once money becomes involved, there is a real temptation to do this. The figure in the Eye article estimating that 10% of flights are grey charters strikes me as somewhat speculative, but there are concerns that some private pilots are bending or breaking the rules. If they get away with it, they may think that it is OK, but if it all goes wrong, it will emerge that they have been foolish and greedy, like Robert Murgatroyd.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:56, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Yes, more about Murgatroyd than Ibbotson and Sala. I agree 10% is probably a very rough guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Incidentally, the Murgatroyd incident is very similar to the Death of Aaliyah, and the prosecution was right that it amazing that no-one was killed. None of this encourages you to take a flight in a light aircraft.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:27, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for that one, had not seen. I have taken a few, purely as a means of sharing the fuel bill for the pilot in a four-seater, but only ever on round-trips from a single airfield and only ever with an instructor pilot in the co-pilot seat. I'm glad to say all have been wholly uneventful and most enjoyable. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fancy flying across the English Channel, at night, in bad weather, in Winter, with a single pilot who was "a bit rusty", no matter how free it was. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Lance Percival

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:Clivemasters's edits to Lance Percival. Verbcatcher (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. I have added a brief comment. You summery seems quite complete. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this. I applaud User:Floquenbeamfor the swift and decisive action. Four years after Percival died and 49 years after the incident in question, one wonders why does anyone really care about this so much. One might guess some family connection to the unfortunate Mrs. Jillian Young. But I guess we will never know. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

"Swift and Decisive" is my middle name. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:52, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Hmmm, curious. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The DTs

Racists, cheats and conmen are people too, you know. – Sca (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Well, barely. The sky's the limit, I guess. Or is it the size of his personal checkbook? I'm not sure. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:02, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Whatever makes you say that? – Sca (talk) 02:49, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

♫ It's the most wonderful time ♫

♫ of the year ♫.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:32, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, just the time for some awesome Austrian symphonic black metal!! [22]. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Ond diolch yn fawr am eich dymuniadau da!

RIP André Previn

Rhapsody in Blue, Ain't Misbehavin', Black and Blue. The list of his jazz highlights goes on and on. Those TV programmes with Oscar Peterson really were wonderful. They had quite similar playing styles (as I think Ain't Misbehavin' there (1963?) demonstrates). AP never had the brilliance, clarity or sheer power of OP, but they had similar swing and phrasing. There's something charming about Previn's more laid back, even lazier, touch. Sorry to ramble so.... or even Rumble Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP indeed. Such a wide ranging career. From his film scores of the 50's through the jazz pieces you mention to his Sounds Magnificent series where he taught me about the history of the Symphony he was wonderfully talented. Best regards to you M (and thanks for the links) and your talk page watchers. MarnetteD|Talk 22:51, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes quite. I'm not sure how "major transformative world leaders in their field" applies here. His "field" was really so very wide. There are very few musicians of the past 70 years who have been equally productive and well-respected in jazz, film and classical music. He was a bit of a one off, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP Jacques Loussier

Do you know Previn 2? Jacques Loussier, referencing just as bad. But I go to bed, with his Play Bach on my mind. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:07, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh my God. Another great. I had not heard. Another one of my early heroes. Hearing him was a pivotal moment in my musical appreciation. Thanks for the news anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Similar for me, and then I heard him once more, Rheingau Musik Festival, took pictures, but that was before digital cameras. Lovely place, I was on the balcony, - bad perspective anyway ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Third time - legendary - Loussier and Brubeck. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Goodness me how lucky you were. That looks very special. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Waking up! - Ever so proud of this historic edit. Will look after his article after morning routine (operatic DYK to opera and Germany, thank yous and watchlist). 3 songs to Ravel's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP Michael Gielen

My heart! Today I wanted to expand Loussier, but first write about a woman, Liane Synek on IWD, who took part in the premiere of Die Soldaten, conducted by Michael Gielen. I took that to the lead. He died, as I just found out. During the Gielen era I saw Aida, and heard him say in an interview, asked why - with all these great conducting projects - he also composed, and he said that if he didn't he'd have to kill someone. RIP. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah, that is sad. But yes, a fine age of 91 years I see. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes. This article is almost fully referenced, for a change, but under-facted. So much in the external most of which still existed, - I'm just too tired. Tomorrow. I followed your example and fished an image from the commons ;) - also showing Reimann in 1965, - met him last year (Medea), when he looked more like in his article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lehol (talk • contribs) 19:47, 2 March 2019 (UTC) (This misplaced notice was moved here from User:Martinevans123. —C.Fred (talk) 20:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC))

Yes, thanks. There seems to have been some slight misunderstanding as to which country Dublin was in, in 1909, when the artist Francis Bacon was born there. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, at that time and nowadays Dublin is the capital of Ireland. The UK is made of/constituted by countries, differently from USA, which is constituted by states. At that time UK was composed of the following countries: Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Dublin was never a British city, simply because it is out of Britain, and it sounds completely unfair to say that someone is British if he/she was born in the time of British empire, people born in East countries other than Russia cannot be considered Russian nowadays if they were born in the old Soviet Union state, Portuguese born in the time of Spanish rule are not considered Spanish. You could have left "Dublin, Ireland" and in parentheses have put "part of the UK of Great Britain and Ireland at the time", this nation does not exist anymore since the independence of Ireland as you know. So bear in mind: If you're born in Britain you're British if you're born in Ireland you're Irish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lehol (talk • contribs) 22:43, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I seem to have lost the gist of your argument there. My argument was simply this:

• Francis Bacon was born in Dublin in 1909.
• In 1909 Dublin was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
• So the reference to Dublin should have United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, linked, after it,

However the infobox you were edit warring over has now been removed. So you'll need to take your argument elsewhere or, better still, just forget about it. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

p.s. you've been editing since 10 February. Could you please start to sign your Talk page posts by using four tildes like this: ~~~~ ? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:16, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Oops, sorry – misclick

Hi Martin, sorry about this nuclear revert with extra drama and mayonnaise – I have literally no idea how I did that! Apologies, DBaK (talk) 21:37, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

How very exciting. I've now got you pencilled in as the IP from King's College London. It keeps us entertained!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Good Lord. That is exciting. Will I receive an enamel badge or something? That would be nice. Thanks, DBaK (talk) 21:44, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

A badge? Here's one I made (much) made earlier. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Well that's very very nice thank you young man! Cheers DBaK (talk) 22:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Ooooh, young maaaaan!! "And uh, you Sir, at the back, in the green pullover, do you have a clichéd thought for us?": End of an Era Martinevans123 (talk) 23:04, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Brut y Brenhinedd

The source so describes it, but I think it means "the version/edition of the book held at Dingestow Court". I think your straight link is better. KJP1 (talk) 12:38, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes. I was too lazy to even check the source. But I was guessing you had followed source(s). I'm not sure if a piped link, or even a full brief explanation in parentheses, would be any better. I'm sorry to just parachute in like that. The perils of the Watchlist! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

No worries. As with most of these obscure Monmouthshire houses, you, I and Ghmyrtle are the only ones who ever edit them, so it's good there's any interest at all! Although Mounton House has recently received some attention, I suspect from residents of the school previously located in the house. But they seem rather less interested in recording Tipping's architectural achievements than in creating a list of the members of their soccer team. KJP1 (talk) 12:58, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Haha. Yes, we all need "the beautiful game" (?) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:03, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Content forks at ITN

My apologies, it seems I misunderstood. It's oft mentioned that I don't contribute in article space, and it makes me defensive. Thanks for clarifying. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:08, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I'm rather guilty of making the odd joke or random aside at ITN/RD, occasionally even in bad taste. But if you felt so very strongly about the mistake made in posting André Previn, you could have made your first comment something other than "-that was fast. TWO dead Germans in the box in just two weeks"?! I almost felt quite jealous. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 3 March 2019 (UTC) p.s. no-one's ever going to knowingly want to be seen "pulling a Pell", are they?

At the time I hadn't read it, it was a legit reaction to the speedy posting. I took at look at the article after and !voted for a pull. FWIW I don't see the importance of George Pell either, but there is consensus to post it and the article is fine so what can I do. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. I also often make remarks from a gut reaction and end up looking quite foolish. It often pays to be cautious. But it seems your instinctive reaction here was quite accurate as it turned out. I still wish we could spend less time debating at the nomination and more time just each adding a few sources each. I'm not sure André will ever get back on as an RD blurb now, which I think is a shame. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Listen Martin, I am pulling all the right hooks ..... but not necessarily in the right order! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:59, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

As a musical Admin, could you not "pull a few strings"?? [23]. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Be careful of when to use rollback.

Hi there. I noticed that you used rollback on this diff. Try not to use rollback on those situations, since the IP made edits in good faith. The IP thought a British word is spelled wrong, which is certainly not vandalism. Should you accidentally used rollback, you should use a dummy edit. Cheers!INeedSupport ^:3 16:21, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice. I have no idea what the IP (from the University of Wisconsin) was thinking as there was no edit summary and they have made no other edits to this artiole or any other ever (as far as I can tell). If you are in contact with this anon IP editor I would appreciate your help in appraising them of British spelling conventions. I see you have already given them a spelling lesson on my behalf. Cheers! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

RIP Jacques Loussier (26 October 1934 – 5 March 2019)

Just a genius [24]. Solo: [25] For me it was like flipping the musical coin and suddenly seeing tails instead of heads. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:19, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Jacques Loussier

On 7 March 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Jacques Loussier, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 23:01, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Some Bach, but not from Jacques. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

March

willow blossom
... with thanks from QAI

Musical thanks! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:45, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Spanish Archer

Hi Martin, long time no see – my apologies! I've just come across the WP article Spanish Archer. It has no references at all, and the British Film Institute's bios for the show's alleged presenters, Rhodri Williams and Ruth Madoc don't mention it. I can't find any reliable sources to show that it existed at all. I'm always very reluctant to suggest the deletion of an article, in fact I can't recall ever having done so. What do you think about this case? Very best wishes! JezGrove (talk) 23:43, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

BBC salaries

(copied from User talk:Juanpumpchump)

Hello Juanpumpchump. Why do you think Template:Infobox person has a parameter entry for "Salary" if not to add a well-sourced salary? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:26, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, if you look at the whole story about what BBC staff earn then yes because the BBC is clearly out of governmental control and does need to be reigned back in especially because in the past they have been exposed when they rigged viewers competitions and nothing to mention about Operation Yewtree at all...

Re: the salaries then no because it a private matter what you as a member of the public earn as it is between you and your employer and if you go to your Human Resources department at your workplace about "how much Dave Bloggs earns", they will tell you that it is his personal information, they will not release his personal information and that it is none of your business.

These pay salary issues came to light when the British press pretty much had a dry period and then they all jumped on the band wagon and it is a matter of light entertainment history that ITV and other previous UK independent companies such as Lew Grade's ATV - always paid their staff more than the BBC and that is completely ignored.

If you read Jon Pertwee's book "Moon Boots & Dinner Suits" he quotes that if you worked for ITV in the 1970s you earned twice as much for half the filming schedule with ITV than the BBC and when he asked for a little bit more money at the end of his 4th year as the Doctor when he had agreed to film the next series he was told that the fifth series would then be his last and the producers shook his hand and wished him all the best for the future.

I welcome a reply to my statement.

Regards

Juanpumpchump (talk) 13:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

HiJuanpumpchump: The fact that BBC salaries have been published in the public domain shows very clearly that they are certainly not "a private matter". I'm sure Jon Pertwee's book may be very interesting, but the addition of individual salary information to the articles in question has nothing whatever to do with the Human Resources department at my workplace, nor "governmental control", nor Operation Yewtree, nor Lew Grade's ATV. It's a simple fact about the individual concerned. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 8 March 2019 (UTC) p.s. we need not replicate this entire discussion at both of our Talk pages, thanks.

List of recurring Monty Python characters

You may not be able to give out the death penalty for links in headers, but you are definitely going to get the Comfy Chair from the Spanish Inquisition for missing The Colonel. SpinningSpark 11:02, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

D'oh! I'll just go and answer the five three questions, my leige! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:10, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Your removal of source from Tom Ballard

Hello. I just wanted to ask about Special:Diff/887290478 to Tom Ballard that removed the source I added. In your edit description, you put "except I don't see it anywhere in that source." However, that source clearly states "Tom Ballard was born in the Peak District of England in 1988." (It is about 2/3 the way down the article, but should be easy to find with a page search). Of course it is hard to scan sources quickly so I totally understand how you would have missed it. Would you mind putting it back or maybe adding a better source? (I realize there may be better sources but I figured this one was better than "citation needed"). I'm not going to put it back myself because I don't want to start an edit war and I just don't care enough about the topic; I was only trying to be helpful when I saw "citation needed." Desertborn (talk) 18:58, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Desertborn. Sorry. We seem to be editing at cross purposes. Yes, that year is perfectly visible in that source, and thanks for adding it. But I was seeking a source for 16 October. Do you have one? Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for your note here. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. No, sadly I don't have one for the day. I'll look some more. Desertborn (talk) 19:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. In the meantime I have re-added your source so at least his year of birth is supported. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:17, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Ffft!

To sleep, perchance to dream — Neonorange (Phil) 00:21, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

String of Hits

I'm a bit stuck here. This album, from what I recall, was absolutely huge at the end of the 70s and it seemed my parents and all their friends had a copy and loved to play it at dinner parties. Time, however, has not been kind to it and it has slipped into obscurity as a dated relic of its time, which means no sources cover it. For a number one album, that's pretty unusual. As Shaw Taylor was once fond of saying .... can you help? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Hardly a police matter, I feel. At least there are 7 different sources at that article! Even if one of them is the dreaded discogs.com. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Clifton Chenier Bon Ton Roulet excerpt.ogg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Clifton Chenier Bon Ton Roulet excerpt.ogg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:28, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Coogan

Did you see the last 4 minutes of Alan Partridge on Monday? Jeesus he was the head off of him. Went down "extremely" well over here, he had the whole thing down pat, it was very nuanced. Coogan could now run for president of Ireland. Ceoil (talk) 12:23, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

@Ceoil: Not really my place to say, but I've received some off-wiki correspondence saying that Martin is taking an extended wikibreak and isn't sure when he'll be back. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Can you pass on my best wishes and fond regards to my auld sparring partner. Ceoil (talk) 17:48, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Certainly. I'm not sure when he'll be back, but hopefully he will be in due course. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:31, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Ceoil) your good wishes were and are much appreciated. That last four minutes is really quite disturbing and indeed also very funny. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Dude I know a paddy when I, loike, hear one :) Take care man. Ceoil (talk) 14:33, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I can't imagine for a moment that you ever find the time to watch the wonderful Eurovision. But when did Azerbaijan get so good?? (well, I guess in 2011, when they won, of course). The production on this I think is just stunning. Must have cost quite a large proportion of the annual Azerbaijani GNP and came a very respectable 6th. The Aussies might have won for that amazing staging alone, but only managed 9th. No Johnny this year unfortunately, but we still had a relatively sober Graham William Walker. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

The Icelandic song this year is a thundering disgrace ;) is all I have to say on the matter. The whole thing should be shut down, or given over to a nice respectable presenter like, oh I don't know, Alan Partridge. (wonderful yes!) Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

At least Hatred Will Prevail was a bit different. The spirit of rebellion and unconventionality lives on. Great to see Verka again of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm no prude, but to be honest I reached out and PUNCHED my television when confronted by the bare arse of that nice Icelandic man. The sorrow and the pity, god help us if there is a war. Ceoil (talk) 21:45, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Lol. The Reykjavík bondage thongs worked for me, dearie. But, more to the point.... some stax to die for! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

It was so much simpler and nice in my day, when the worst of the worst was unholy Americans trying to be Rod Steuart. Ceoil (talk) 22:14, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Flowers

April

Wood sorrel for daffodils, Martin and who cares. I updated my playlist (click on April) a bit (including Pärt's Cry), surprised how well "Lord, have mercy" and "the angels' charge" go with the unexpected death of a friend. He is pictured here, only the image - which I thought would be good for Easter - is threatened with deletion, because some artwork is hanging on the walls. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Lovely. Thank you Gerda! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:43, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

"Latest post" was never intended to be permanent; just drawing your attention to my meddling Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:19, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Happy Easter! Life and death close, great music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:26, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for a sign of life!! - Yesterday, three (!) were reported as recent deaths, sigh. I did what I could for Georg Katzer and two others who turned out to have died in April already. What I could was not good enough, it seems. I wrote about his opera then, more pleasure there. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:55, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the little bit of sorrel, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:02, 12 May 2019 (UTC) "...sometimes I wish..."

May

Rapeseed

Funny, the opera article is now the one place on the web which has the date of premiere right. The obituaries are wrong by two years because they took the planned date (or what?). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

We sang today and yesterday, both times in church (today the one named after you), both times with a bishop holding the service, yesterday one from Niger, in memory of the friend who died, today the one from Limburg. Both occasions pictured, - I'm getting faster ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:10, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I also miss John. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I'll never forgive him for his "hatchet job" on our Eddie. Fortunately. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

He gave me a job in case I outlived him. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:36, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

And this is why you don't use online translators

In the news today: [26] Google Translate will get it right when a hyphen is included: [27] Unsurprisingly, people were reminded of the 2008 classic.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:23, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

It's enough to make one want to retire, isn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:52, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Spare £3.5M?

Now here's [28] a nice Grade II* listed Monmouthshire house going begging. Well, perhaps not quite begging.... Hope you're keeping well. KJP1 (talk) 17:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I was hoping to secure a seasonal interest in the potting shed, for a bit less than a full nine yards. I'll probably spend the rest on a few biscuits for the tea house. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2019 (UTC) p.s. thanks for your great improvements to that guy from Maindee.

It's a great pleasure - I'm very fond of Hando. Do you suppose Ghmyrtle has Rambles in Gwent? It's the only one I've not got and it's damned elusive. But then a nearly 100-year old paperback must be even more worn-out than you or I. KJP1 (talk) 22:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

KJP1 - Nope, sorry. I have four of his books but not that one. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, somewhat elusive. It looks like this apparently. But neither Abebooks nor Alibris UK have it. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Strong and stable

I'm very clear on that. U? Softlavender (talk) 23:26, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

No U-turn here, thank you! Time to rearrange those front bench deckchairs, I feel. Blue rosettes anyone? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:07, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

The music is so fine this time of night in these latitudes. Should the Captain go down as well? This has been a very vexed question of late. Softlavender (talk) 07:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Just for the record, I'm not sure poor Dave even had a properly inflated life-jacket when he hit that icy 2 a.m. water. Maybe everyone's Brexit Buffoon, our Noris, ought to resign now while the going's good? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Lordy, there are tapes! On the other hand, I don't think the Brexit bros are going anywhere, not while State propaganda is propping them up. Win/win! -- Softlavender (talk) 20:40, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Did someone mention Hope and Keen's Crazy old Brexit Bus?? Three years later and still strategically poised for that final leap of faith. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2019 (UTC) .... ah yes, the fresh air of true European Democracy at work

Jacques Lacan

I see he wrote for the Encyclopédie française. I suppose if anyone can, Jacques Lacan can. [29] —Mango Mapes (talk) 19:11, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Bass player in a leather jumpsuit? Get it while you can. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Your talkpages make for interesting reading, I must say.

So many links to click on, so little time. Seems a particularly intriguing one has disappeared from the internet entirely(?) Hopefully this will do as a stopgap. —Mango Mapes (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh dear, yes. We don't talk about Billy any more, I'm afraid. Even though good Lord Dacre of Arnos has moved on. But I understand he has a shrine over at our noble sister organ. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:40, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Virtuous pagans and vicious circles... —Mango Mapes (talk) 14:26, 19 May 2019 (UTC) [30]

Ah, Joni. I can never resist. Just so beautiful. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:32, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Her real surname was Anderson. She had polio as a child. Sca (talk) 12:42, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, a lot of women have to put up with fake surnames, don't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:53, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Sophomore jive from victims of typewriters. Do you remember that period in the 1980s when she started dressing like Jacko and pretending to be a Native American? Genius. —Mango Mapes (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, a bit "one-feather-short-of-a-War-bonnet" that period, I always thought. Never mind. I always preferred something a bit more anguine: [31]. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:17, 20 May 2019 (UTC) (and yes ... the track that follows that one on the album, "Edith and the Kingpin", is just a 3 minute 34 second poetic and musical masterpiece, in my very humble opinion; just incredible)

My Knickerbocker Glory tribute edit

"My milk shake brings all the yobs to the yard,

And they're like,

Our country is better than theirs,

Damn right it's better than theirs,

I can teach you,

But I have to charge it to company expenses" - Kelis Yaxley-Lennon (no relation): [32]

Yes it jolly well should!

So, thank you very much for this. Cheers, Some anonymous person ... (... who is not really here, and should not be ...) 17:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

[33] .... when I'm not really here, I'm also often tempted to try and fix stuff... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Ha! Thank you, Martin, for the excellent and very enjoyable links! :) Best wishes 82.39.96.55 (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

"Chill thy syncopated scaly beans, dude." They don't call me Martin-"Louis Balfour"-Evans123 for nothing, you know. Mmmmm, nice. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:14, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh definitely nice!. And cycloptilum comprehendens in the rhythm section – even nicer. Cheers 82.39.96.55 (talk) 11:33, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

If only I could formally "thank you" for your kind message, mysterious Haringey Virgin IP. Instead I'll just have to send you some more insect jazz: [34] Martinevans123 (talk) 12:26, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

You have thanked me, so nicely! But I am going to try now – famous last words perhaps? – to disengage a little from this lovely place and do something more productive for a short while. Ha – as if anything more productive were even possible! Catch you on the flipflop, dude. (ahem) Cheers 82.39.96.55 (talk) 19:03, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, famous last words.... and so, just to cheer you up: "Hey fellas! How about this for a headline for tomorrow's paper? French Fries!". .... and please don't take this personally! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:28, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Sad news

Hello M. I just read of Leon Redbone's passing. A true fave of mine - I thought I would share this montage of pics that accompany his performance. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah sad. A great loss. Joe Venuti on that track there, another true great in my book. I have none of Redbone's albums, but have been a longtime admirer. Only found him via this guy (but can't remember exactly how): [35]. RIP Leon. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts M. And a link to another wonderful song! MarnetteD|Talk 20:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I've now remembered it was via this song, although I had heard him before that, on the John Peel Show singing this classic - like nothing I had ever heard before. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2019 (UTC) ....there's also a wonderful live version (at the historic Plaza Theatre in Orlando, FL, on 2/19/11) at YT, but it has no copyright permission, alas.

I played both versions M. He sure did seem to have fun creating music :-) MarnetteD|Talk 19:00, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

I'd also recommend that clip of him playing "Ditty-Wah-Ditty" on a US TV talkshow (perhaps you can identify it). It's not dated, but am guessing it was probably around 1977 when Double Time was released. It really rocks from start to finish. He and Cooder were very much kindred spirits, I think. It has been such a joy for me this weekend spending a few hours re-acquainting myself with his genius. A few of his albums are now very much on my birthday list. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:15, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

If it is the one with the red curtain behind him it is the Tonight show with Johnny Carson. His rendition of Champagne Charlie is a kick as well. I do hope some of your talk page watchers are enjoying the music at the end of these links. MarnetteD|Talk 19:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, 3:23 with the truly wonderful bass saxophone (Jonathan Dorn on tuba on the album, I think), two cornets and drums accompanying. It's been there for 9 years, so I'm guessing NBC have decided not to sue. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Proud of you lot today

We don't want him back. Softlavender (talk) 01:11, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure all this fuss will blow over..... [36]. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:02, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Usage of the Daily Mail on the page about Black Shuck

Thank-you for your edit to Black Shuck. In the summary you state either we can use the Daily Mail as a source or we can't??. While I accept that the Daily Mail should not be used to source just about anything, I believe this case to be an exemption under WP:SELFSOURCE i.e. The Daily Mail is a reliable source for what they have published. El komodos drago (talk to me) 10:44, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining. Did the Daily Mail simply repeat what was in the East Anglian Daily Times? Maybe we should discuss further at Talk:Black Shuck? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

I can't see any reference to the '7 foot' figure in the EADT article. As for starting a discussion on the article talk page, that's up to you. El komodos drago (talk to me) 11:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Ok thanks. So where did this "7 foot on its hind legs" come from, exactly? I'll open a thread. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:16, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Citation Barnstar
	Dr. John would sing you a song. Or groove on a New Orleans Jazz funeral. Keep up the good work. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:45, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Thaaaaanks Thirteenzie!!.... cool beenzie.... any excuse: [37] (... featuring Pete Fountain on clarinet, Charles Neville on tenor and Al Hirt on trumpet) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

..... so sad, another musical genius taken.... this from two of my mostest favourite albums ever Dr. John Plays Mac Rebennack The Legendary Sessions Vols 1 & 2: [38]

Yes. but what a catalogue!

Makes me want to get table d'hote at Tujague's in the French Quarter, and some begniets and coffee at Cafe du Monde. Interesting that Tujague's doesn't have its own article.

Speaking of Dr. John, I think that the two obituaries I added reliably source a lot of material that is already in (or not in) the article. I'm in transit and am indisposed to edit this much for a while. I'm hoping it gets WP:ITN. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:05, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

"Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans"?? ...with Harry..... yes I saw your comment at ITN/C, which seems to have been completely misconstrued. oh well. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:14, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Charlie Foxtrot. FUBAR. You can lead a horse to water ... 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:53, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

"... 'ere, Furrteensie, me ol' china.... I 'ad that Charlie Foxtrot in da back of me Grauniad tacsi de uvver nite.... an 'e cum over all long pausey on me, an' all." --Taxi zum Pat Butcher 123 (talk) 21:04, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Adding one more favorite to the tributes that the rest of you have already left. RIP DJ. MarnetteD|Talk 21:36, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thanks a fine album. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

I'll meet your Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans and raise you a Basin Street Blues. (posted before I read the preceding well put comment). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:43, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, Pete Fountain again there on clarinet. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

He appeared a few times on Treme (TV series) - along with many other wonderful musicians. It is worth watching just for their performances if you (or your talk page watchers) haven't seen it before. MarnetteD|Talk 21:46, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Marnette, will certainly take a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Not forgetting one of his best: [39].. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Slightly ironic, is it not, that semi-stub articles, provided they are fully sourced, can enable an individual who is barely known to get a link on the Main page, while someone of the statute of Dr John may not appear? I don't see any way round this. Maybe it doesn't really matter as many readers will navigate straight to the article via Google, regardless of what's on ITN/RD and regardless of the alleged "quality" of any article. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:17, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

And it is sourced. We've improved it much.
Admittedly, becuser it is a very large article, there are still paragraphs that are not sourced.
but oveerall,this is a surprisingly comprehensive and well-sourced article about a very well known (WP:GNG and WP:MUSICIAN) and important musician. ITN is being deliberately perverse.
Notwithstanding, the pages views topped out at 200,000 in a single day. Good job! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:50, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

"deliberately perverse..." ouch! How very Daily-Star-dare you! You'll be claiming next that ITN/RD has been infiltrated by paid-editing undertakers. We all know these Google-surfing numpties will lap up any old fishy tripe. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:00, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

For successfully nominating ITN/RD entries, editors will receive hip-hop axes and "death stars" on a random basis.

Could be. But I've no ax to grind. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:03, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Even his time will come, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:07, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Speaking as one of the small circle of cranks who own ITN, I agree it can appear paradoxical that a short RD nom that's easier to source has a much better chance of making it than a more comprehensive article, but linking to a BLP article from the main page (and the recently dead are still covered by BLP) requires an inline citation for every statement that could be challenged. There isn't anything "deliberately perverse" about that - that's policy. If there are paragraphs unsourced, you just have to do the work and source them.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Porn King. As long as it doesn't grow into a big circle, we should be safe (??). Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

You must get people making jokes about your name all the name eh? No actually, it never struck me before. Porn King. Te he he.-- Mr. Smoketoomuch 15:21, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

If only. Sorry pawny, I didn't realize that was your actual name. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2019 (UTC) p.s. "Well, you'd better cut down a bit then! Ha ha ha."

Orphaned non-free image File:Rufus Harley With Georges Arvanitas Trio.jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Rufus Harley With Georges Arvanitas Trio.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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File:Rufus Harley and son America Patton.jpg

Rufus Harley and his son America Patton

Have added this one from Commons at Rufus Harley. Not many free ones available. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:57, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Move to a quiet life?

Long standing trooper

-EEng

....ooooh, Super!!

Hi Martin, thanks for all your sterling work on the poets. You are a long standing trooper and I salute your assiduity. Seamus has been pretty stable for the last eight years or so. There used to be long edit wars over the Irish/Northern Irish/Derry/Londonderry questions. This is why the article was phrased as it was. I think the links to Castledawson and Toomebridge, and Bellaghy suffice. As you know there are editors that go hunting for Catholics to edit and Irish politics to get upset about and place names to yell about. Could we revert the mention and avoid getting into all that again? Many thanks. Anna (talk) 11:20, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I have reverted. I was really only aiming to locate smaller places in larger places as early on as possible, hence my edit summary "rationalise" e.g. Bellaghy in County Londonderry. But whatever. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:29, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Forever in your debt. Anna (talk) 11:30, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Lady smem (left) with Man smem (right)
Caution: May contain sweet peas

p.s. I've never tried to salute an assiduity, but it does looks very tasty.... even if it was "originally made out of honey, semen and semolina..." Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 8 June 2019 (UTC) .... or maybe you meant an acid eulogy: [40]??

I'll salute any kind of assiduity you like, especially if it's got honey in it. Semen, not so much. Careful, sweet pea, that's how wars start. You'll be had up for cultural defamation. Or something. Anna (talk) 12:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Haha. You can't beat a bit of manga or a bit of zest, can you. But yes, I'll chew it over, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:24, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Talking of acid-unity, you can keep your spunk, thank you. I hope your dreams are going to find you, shining like the sun and-not-feel-ing blu-ue, like you always do-o. Btw, Glasgow is never a good idea. Anna (talk) 12:48, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Hahaha. Now that IS funny. Thanks! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:52, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Have a little vote on me

"Anyone seen my horse"?

Roud 4790: [41]

There was Cocaine Mike and Marijuana Bo,

Walking on down the aven-o,

Saying "Honey have a sniff, have a vote on me,

Yeah, have little hit on me."

(1922 more verses folks...) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 8 June 2019 (UTC) ...I feel exhausted already.

Make a wish, dear.... [42]

But apparently acid is beyond the pale. —BoJo Brand —Preceding undated comment added 14:55, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. As are box cutters. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:59, 13 June 2019 (UTC) p.s. Philip Hammond thanks you for your kindness and looks forward to a managed withdrawal

Ah yes, "need a complete tool? choose "BoJo Brand", as NOT seen on TV"? Good job the TV debate is going to be on Channell 4? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:46, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Hableány

Hi! Sorry for my bad English... I tried to look for English (and an Hungarian - the official website of Hungarian General Directorate of Water Management) source for the crane flow under the bridge... Maybe you can put this together:

• "The water level should be more than 4.5 meters under the bottom of the bridge deck for the crane to safely pass, according to the local rescue team. But as of Thursday morning, it was 4.2 meters." http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/06/356_270192.html
• "Hungary's water management agency said that neighboring Slovakia, which shares the Danube with Hungary along a 140-kilometer (87-miles) border, would temporarily divert part of the river's flow to a backwater. It was hoped that this will speed up the fall of the river's water level for the time needed by the crane to lift out the Hableany." https://thepublicsradio.org/article/hungary-floating-crane-arrives-to-sunken-danube-tour-boat
• "Ma délelőtt 10 órakor a budapesti vízállás 466 centiméter volt..." (Tájékoztató árhullámról 2019.06.07 2019.06.07. 11:37 - ORSZÁGOS VÍZÜGYI FŐIGAZGATÓSÁG) https://www.vizugy.hu/index.php?module=content&programelemid=1&id=1513

"This morning at 10 o'clock the water level in Budapest was 466 centimeters, which is 122 centimeters due to the low more than the southern level of sunday (588 cm). The water level of the Danube is expected to sink below 400 centimeters on Wednesday evening in Budapest." https://newsbeezer.com/hungaryeng/index-inland-slovakian-aid-in-the-danube-decline/

• "The huge floating crane, named the Clark Adam, had been docked at a quay close to the accident site for days. The Hungarian government was even considering taking it apart to get it past the bridges.

But that proved unnecessary, so now the Hungarian government can carry out its original salvage plan which was scheduled to take place on Sunday.

"I also believe that it's very important to raise the boat quickly. This morning I talked to the chief of the Counter Terrorism Centre and we agreed to finish plan A by Sunday." " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_U55CwW_no (ARIRANG NEWS YouTube channel: Crane reaches site of deadly Danube boat sinking)

I hope this helps to understand the last half of the sentence what I wrote in to the article. Fauvirt (talk) 13:17, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi Fauvirt. Many thanks for taking the trouble to do all that. Yes, that make a lot more sense now, think you. I'm sure you could add some more of this detail to make things clearer. I had no idea either that the crane could be dismantled or that the river could be partly diverted in Slovakia. I guess there is no overriding sense of urgency for the authorities now, as the salvage operation will, sadly, not affect the outcome. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Some more infos:

• "After falling significantly in the first days of the week, the Danube has risen several inches over the past 24 hours and is expected to rise a bit more until around midday Friday — due to melting snow in its upper basin — before falling again." 6 June 2019, https://www.apnews.com/49ff3304a40b416bbc22a4794cca5c48

this snow is now the main problem, because it feeds the flood, therefore divers can only work crawling / lying down - this is not effective, of course but they do what they can.

• Gabčíkovo–Nagymaros Dams - this explains how they could reduce/hold back/diverted the amount of the river ;o)
• Time // Water level (cm) // Water flow (m3/s) // Water heat (C °)

"2019.06.07. 15:00 // 466 // 4000.000 // 18.4

2019.06.07. 14:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 18.3

2019.06.07. 13:00 // 467 // 4010.000 // 18.3

2019.06.07. 12:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 18.1

2019.06.07. 11:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 18.1

2019.06.07. 10:00 // 466 // 4000.000 // 18.0

2019.06.07. 09:00 // 465 // 3990.000 // 17.9" https://www.vizugy.hu/?mapModule=OpGrafikon&AllomasVOA=16496059-97AB-11D4-BB62-00508BA24287&mapData=Idosor#mapData (I archived it here: http://archive.is/uBk2n )

• "Water levels, which were unusually high due to rains and melting snow in the higher parts of the Danube basin, were receding more slowly than anticipated, the National Water Authority OVF told the state news agency MTI on Friday. (Additional reporting by Krisztina Than Editing by Peter Graff)" Fauvirt (talk) 14:12, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks again, Fauvirt. I suspect the article does not need this level of detail. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:52, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Oky. I prefer if other edit the article, not I... therefore I tried to write as much information as possible to you... Fauvirt (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for explaining. It might be an idea to copy this over to the article Talk page? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:53, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Would you rewrite what you need, please? Fauvirt (talk) 09:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Fauvirt. I have copy edited. Does that OK to you? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:45, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thank you! Would you look at this too? I am not sure that "gémnyúlás" means "boom lifting platform" in English... you can see in this document: http://www.sze.hu/~nemethgy/szereles.pdf a sketch and chart (page 10, search: "Úszódaru", "Clark Ádám 120 t-s úszódaru vázlata és teherbírái diagramja") of what I wrote (or I would have to describe it)... Fauvirt (talk) 10:19, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

I will try. As you have probably guessed, my knowledge of Hungarian is limited to what I learned in that famous 1970s BBC comedy series. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

My English is similar... but I hope the illustration figure helps. Fauvirt (talk) 10:51, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

I can assure you that your English is pretty good. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:53, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Fauvirt (talk) 10:58, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

I see that Clark Ádám (crane vessel) says: "Clark Ádám is a crane vessel, specifically a floating sheerleg...? Really no idea what a "gémnyúlás" might be. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:15, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Hmm.. this is completely true: "it is not capable of rotating its crane independently of its hull" so I think yes, that's right. Fauvirt (talk) 11:25, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Gémnyúlás... If the Boom (gém) is in vertical position is the "gémnyúlás" zero... if it approaching to horizontal it will be bigger/longer... is it now clearer?... or more complicated? ;o) Fauvirt (talk) 11:31, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Maybe sailting direktion?... Fauvirt (talk) 11:48, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, I think I understand, thanks! Now busy constructing my own scale model.... GoogleTranslate suggests to me that the literal translation of Hableány is "foam girl"! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:29, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Cool! :o)

so yes, the the two words "one by one" means these but so, "together", the meaning is mermaid... Fauvirt (talk) 12:38, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah thanks. Similar in English really - "maid" on it's own generally means female domestic worker, but it's an archaic term for "a girl or young woman; "mer" has no meaning on its own in modern English, it's from the Old English mere meaning "sea".... or so Wikipedia tells me, anyway, haha.

Wow... but yeah, i heard that the 'Old English' as if it were a different language, it has changed so far until today. But by the "hableány" hab also means wave as a synonym (because on the top of the waves many times there is some "foamyness"

More of a merman, I think[*]

). ;o) Hungarian is a complicated language ... Fauvirt (talk) 16:44, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Old English is really totally unrecognisable to most people in the UK, even those of us who like dogs. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:38, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

oh, the surfer I didn't even notice... :oD

a "bit serious backward": if you really have the meaning for "gémnyúlás", can you reword the sentence to be good?.. no urgency... I'm just interested. :o) Fauvirt (talk) 08:31, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Will have a look if I can. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:39, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanx! Fauvirt (talk) 09:20, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Um, you made this edit which seems to change a value and add two sources. I'm not sure what's wrong with any of that. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Clark Ádám

Hi! I will revert this edit. magyar is part of the name of the company. It simply means "Hungarian Ship and Crane Yard", literally. That is the full name of the company. Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 16:53, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah, apologies. Thanks for that. Yes, it might be useful to keep the Hungarian link. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:07, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Rats

Hey M. The video isn't allowed where I live. Could you mention what it is so I can try to find it another way. If you prefer to keep it a mystery no worries. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 21:49, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

could be wrong ... I could be right ---Sluzzelin talk 21:54, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Sluzzelin. MarnetteD|Talk 21:59, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes thanks, Sluzzelin. MarnetteD - how very surprising, as it's published by the band's VEVO account and as there's no indication whatsoever of that restriction at this (UK) end. There's no mystery intended. I can assure you it's not Rats, it is indeed PIL with the video of this. Perhaps you can find a locally visible version? I wonder can you see this one, which has not been uploaded by the Official VEVO account, but rather by "MadFranko008 Published on 9 Jun 2013", has had over 2.1 million views since then, and actually has two separate license statements (one of which is a copy of the one on the official one). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

As Mr Lydon so ruefully tells us:

"Your time has come your second skin

The cost so high the gain so low

Walk through the valley

The written word is a lie" --Model citizen in every way (talk) 22:06, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

It gives the message "The uploader has not made this available in your area" which I've seen a time or two before. Is this the same video or at least the same song. If so your US talkpage watchers can use it. A good choice for the situation M. MarnetteD|Talk 22:39, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Oh sheesh I just left the same link that you put in your second post M. At least we found one that works! MarnetteD|Talk 22:40, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

June

cornflowers

Oh well, never mind. Perhaps poor Fram would be able to explain the mysteries of YT geographical restrictions (... but when he's a little less preoccupied, of course). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:47, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Didn't know where to put my June flowers, so here: "poor Fram". Frightening how fast you can be "weg vom Fenster" (as we say), complained about, silenced. We are all grown ups here. - a legacy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, curious. Here's proper grave dancing as it should be, of course. --The WMF Singers 123 (talk) 20:57, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

I'm still not over it that he died just days after the legacy, the last comment he wrote on his talk page. Followed by this, - useful edit summary. For WMF? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, quite tragic. Shock Brigade was such an asset to the project. Re WMF: don't worry, I've posted a comment at Jimbo's Talk page that will sort everything out in a matter of days, weeks, months or years. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

I left Jimbo's page in 2014. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

"... and before them... when the first WMF fish crawled up onto the WP:ANI land....OUR LAND!!! ... with your barely developed dispute-resolution lungs... [43] Martinevans123 (talk) 21:46, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Why feed the hand that bites us? CosmicRayReardon (talk) 14:29, 25 June 2019 (UTC) (Did someone say "grave dancing"? Nevermind!)

Thanks Ray, boyo. I was always a big fan of your deep screw and stun shot. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you!

		The Reviewer's Barnstar
		This is for your valuable efforts for reviewing articles under pending changes protection. Thank you PATH SLOPU 14:23, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, that's me .... Professor Pat Pending. But thank you very much! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Did someone mention Postman Pat? He wouldn't last five minutes round here. Cassianto^Talk 14:34, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Goodness me. That's not how I remember it at all. And where's Looby Loo?? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

2019 South American blackout

Not sure of Twitter is a good source. north of Río Negro, coastal cities and metropolitan area. By 1:00 pm local time, power was restored in 75% of Uruguay. 179.25.188.97 (talk) 16:53, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Well it's a bit WP:PRIMARY, of course, so not ideal. And that one is in Spanish. But I think Twitter is usually seen as OK, especially when it's the official Twitter channel of a company. I don't see why that source could not be used. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:11, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Mister 150%

Mike Veale is no longer the record holder for his "120 percent" true allegations against Edward Heath. Jeremy Hunt says he agrees "150%" with Donald Trump's criticism of Sadiq Khan on knife crime.[44] Inflation is taking place here. When will we see the first 200% true statement?--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:28, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

"Every older person should die with dignity and respect." Should save about 100% of the old age pension bill, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:46, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

And Victoria Derbyshire was 160% sorry after saying this.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:21, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Ouch. And who's next for Victoria ... Dominic Drab, Michael Grope, or maybe Sajid Rabid? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for 2019 Argentina and Uruguay blackout

On 18 June 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article 2019 Argentina and Uruguay blackout, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

Stephen 06:01, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Glastonbury Festival

In preparation for Glastonbury Festival next week a small project has been set up to try to get pictures for acts appearing who don't have photos (or pics are poor/out of date). A list has been started at Wikipedia:Glastonbury 2019. Are there acts on the line up which need pics but aren't included on the list? In addition there has been some discussion about which acts, who do not have articles, would be considered notable enough (in wp terms) to justify one and should be included on the list as red links. If you had any pointers or could contribute to the list that would be great.— Rod ^talk 19:48, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Rod. Alas, I will not be attending this year. Langa Methodist Choir looks like it might be a shoo-in to me: [45] Martinevans123 (talk) 19:59, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

How does your mind work?

From the Singing Nun, to Boris Johnson, via Cliff Richard. Just how does your mind work, Mr Evans? Cassianto^Talk 22:00, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

A very good question, and I'm so glad you asked me that. My mind used to work. But alas, it's now been replaced with something called a Watchlist. --"Mr Reina Cubanas 1939" (talk) 22:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

June 2019

Your addition to Kilfinan has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. This is your final warning. Further violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy will result in you being blocked from editing. — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 12:26, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Those seemed to me to be plain facts, using architectural terms, in chronological order, that were very difficult, or even impossible, to re-write without changing their meaning, although I did try my best to re-write it, as much as possible, to avoid copyright violation through direct copying. If anyone is interested, the source material is here. I also hadn't realised that I had been given so many warnings, for this kind of copyright violation already, that I was now due a "final warning" with the threat of a block. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:18, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Glastonbury 2019

The festival has not finished so why did you change it to the past tense before it did? 86.141.200.43 (talk) 21:03, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS. Because the headline acts are now playing. Even if there was a complete power failure..... it has now happened. But sure, let's all enjoy the last glorious 50 minutes of present continuous.... just in case some random reader decides they still want to go. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Of course, even after it's all finished, someone has to clear the mess up. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:33, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Re: Fill your boots

That post was by Vote X For Change, a banned user whose posts should be deleted on sight. See Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Vote (X) for Change. --Viennese Waltz 13:40, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. You obviously are more used to spotting that anon editor than am I. Unfortunate in a way, as the material they linked to seems perfectly relevant and interesting. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello again. I saw your reply on the "fill your boots" thread. Yes, that was Vote X for Change again, so I've deleted his post. I've also had to delete your reply, sorry about that. Best wishes, --Viennese Waltz 15:56, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Happy to see it go. I guess you'll be deleting that IP's other posts? If I repost that useful comment, but under my own name, will I get an indefinite block? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

It's like playing whack-a-mole. I and others try and delete them until an admin blocks his IP (as just happened), but I'm sure many get through. And no, you won't. --Viennese Waltz 16:03, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Good. I don't want to encourage this banned user, of course. But if I re-post it, it will be one less molehill for you to worry about. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:09, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Note: "In 1955 "Mole wrenches" were developed by Thomas Coughtrie (1917–2008), who was at that time managing director of M. K. Mole and Son. The wrenches were manufactured in Newport, Wales, just off the M4, near to the Brynglas Tunnels; travelling west, the Mole sign was visible immediately before entering the tunnels." Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate

...your keeping an eye. What do you think so far? EEng 19:59, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, daring to peep through horrified fingers. Poor Eric would be spinning in his wikigrave. If he were dead, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure they'd let me know if there's anything they don't see as an improvement, as you have so kindly done. It all seems very straightforward to me. EEng 20:34, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes a virtue-signalling Wiki resignation, under a cloud of disapprobation, can be a real boon. You could always try what you did last time and remove every alternate word? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 5 July 2019 (UTC) p.s. sorry a bit distracted at the moment with the planting of Epimedium × rubrum, in the wildlife garden, with the wonderfully therapeutic Monty Don...

Franz Kafka knew it all. Click cover to insight. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:18, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Maybe so, but I've always found Monty quite uplifting. I think it's the dungarees. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:26, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Aimez-vous Brahms? Warum? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

"Warum ist das Licht gegeben dem Mühseligen?" ..... wahrscheinlich.... Wenn es kein Pech wäre, hätte ich überhaupt kein Glück. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:49, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

User:EEng, a few little cuts can make all the differece. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

still kafkaeque times, but don't miss our music in your place, see more (review pictured) on my talk. Also there, look for trees pictured, and the dedication of images of desire and destruction. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

João Gilberto

Ah, por que estou tão sozinho?

Ah, por que tudo é tão triste?

Ah, a beleza que existe

A beleza que não é só minha

Que também passa sozinha

Farewell João Gilberto: [46]. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:27, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

The DTs

Do you think the Daily Mail is credible on this one? – Sca (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

As far as that story goes, I'd be prepared to lower the bar. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Who's the wackier? – Sca (talk) 12:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Am feelin' Ire, maaaaaan... can ya dig it? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Personal reminiscence time

Used to have a Philips EL-3302 but it broke and went to landfill many years ago. The battery life wasn't very good and it wouldn't have played music all the way to the Moon and back again. Philips must have made a ton of these because there are still plenty on eBay.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:51, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of that before, but yes, landfill on the moon seems a perfectly good idea to me. One of Donald's best yet, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:20, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Mars is next for waste. Trump said in his July 4th address that "we will plant the American flag on Mars." Softlavender (talk) 09:43, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank goodness. Always best to get that pre-emptive strike in first. Maybe he could build a wall around the flag and get the Martians to pay for it? And then, obviously, some ramparts... maybe an airport?? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:49, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Disposing of electrical items is complicated nowadays and the bin men will refuse to take them if they have the WEEE wheelie bin logo ("Sorry, squire, that's more than my job's worth). The Apollo astronauts had the Sony TC-50, maybe these are in a museum somewhere.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:07, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, getting rid of those old old unwanted electrical appliances can sometimes be a challenge. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

When I go to the Moon, I'm going to take this recording of "Fly Me to The Moon" by Diana Panton.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 21:09, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Never heard of her before. But I'm guessing that's Don Thompson on the Steinway. How lovely. Beautiful voice Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 8 July 2019 (UTC) .... but if we're going with the moon theme... I'd be happy to settle for Ella singing "How High the Moon".... p.s. after a month of waiting for a straight answer here, you'll have to search for a YT link yourself...

What an amazing voice and sensuous vocal stylist! Thanks so much for sharing that! Softlavender (talk) 10:04, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Let's not forget bom-ba-ba-bom ba-bom-ba-bom-bom dang-a-dang-dang ding-a-dong-ding.... – Sca (talk) 20:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Sca, and I fully agree! Unfortunately, although that video, uploaded to YouTube nine years ago, by user "fabrizio lencioni", which has now had 11,848,298 views, and has no added lyrics or other "user-created content" (apart from a single still image of the band), and has a clear copyright licence statement in the "Music in this video" section, and even gives a credit to the album from which it was copied, it is deemed unacceptable for Wikipedia as it wasn't uploaded from an "official" source. I searched for an alternative and counted over 100 other uploads of various versions sung by the band (some live) i.e. not covers. But none of these were from an "official" source and so also can't be used! Hoorah!! I can't even link to the very good home-made one by The Redeeeers for fear of another future indef block by indef blocked blocked-for-a-year Fram. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

p.s. for anyone insanely bored enough to want to follow my apparently "burning question" about YT video advice see: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs#Lyrics and music videos. Shortly about to close, through lack of interest, it seems. Next stop WP:VPP? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:00, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry

linked to wrong week.

https://sacharts.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/12-november-1965/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.92.4.47 (talk) 18:00, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi, IP 196. I assume you are referring to your recent here at Jonathan King, yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:03, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes sorry I sent the wrong link to the other editor.196.92.4.47 (talk) 18:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Um. Your edit summary for that edit was just this "https://sacharts.wordpress.com/2015/01/10/29-october-1965/". It's normal to use a source like that to support a claim in the text, not just in the edit summary. But anyway, looking at that source, I see that it shows "Everyone’s Gone To The Moon" was at No 13 and No 19, in the South African singles chart. for the weeks 22 and 29 October 1965. respectively. The following week it went up to No 11 and then 8 and then back down to 19. It was on the chart for a total of six weeks. I think that could be added to the article main body. I'll open a thread to discuss this at Talk:Jonathan King, to keep other editors informed. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

just get wound up when people think uk and usa is the world! i see you corrected it in article. thanks. but you quote about a different song from the link already there as 50! very confusing. 196.92.4.47 (talk) 02:22, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

and just found this to clarify - google is a rabbithole. https://books.google.co.ma/books?id=4Q4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA112&lpg=RA1-PA112&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false 196.92.4.47 (talk) 02:31, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

"Everyone's Gone to the Moon" wasn't a huge chart hit all around the world, and there have been attempts to imply this in the past. What matters is that it is one of the best remembered pop hits of the 1960s.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:24, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

i remember it well but then i am getting old. google sent me here below as a number two in new zealand. i found charts in holland and japan too. but it warrants no more of my time - or yours. just repeating that the world is bigger than the uk and usa not that anyone cares. https://charts.nz/forum.asp?todo=viewthread&id=47551 196.92.4.47 (talk) 15:01, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

The lead section of any article is meant to reflect the article content. If someone could take the time to look at those other charts, and they show that the single was a hit, there is no reason why they could not be added to the article and the lead then adjusted to say it was a "worldwide hit" (although that is a bit hyperbolic). Many thanks for the links, anyway. And I for one certainly do care that "the world is bigger than the uk and usa". Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

According to List of UK top-ten singles in 1965, the best selling single in the UK in 1965 was Tears (Ken Dodd song). The Apollo astronauts didn't show much interest in playing this. Ken Dodd probably sold more records than Jonathan King in the 1960s. How tattyfilarious, missus.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, "Tears for Souvenirs", a teen-weepie classic. A wonderful pop song, it's hard to believe it was written in 1929, but I guess all the best songs are timeless. Dodd had a wonderful voice and many of his other songs show far more depth of expression than this one. I see there are three versions on our sister site YouTube, but safely none that are allowed to be linked here. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Tonight's challenge - is there actually anything by "the Doddfather" on YouTube that could be allowed a link here? I'll save you the bother.... all I could find was Des O'Connor Tonight from 1983. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

"Tears" isn't even Ken Dodd's best single, but it managed to outsell the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Sonny and Cher in 1965. Dodd isn't usually considered a major recording artist today, but he was huge in the 1960s.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

My vote would probably go to "So Deep Is The Night" which made only No. 31 in 1964. Bit of a Walker Brothers sound to it and light but soaring strings, gentle brass touches. Great tenor crooning. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

New article

Kaiserschmarrn? No, just "Hungarian Circle Trifle". Fill your boots, folks!

Dear Trouper, I am just putting together a new article on Henry Oberlander and the Hungarian Circle. There is somewhat of an ostensible online black hole around this big 1960s/70s bank fraud. People are complaining there is no write up ("it's been disappeared") so I have written one. I would appreciate your thoughts before it's live. I have been rifling newspaper archives. There is a lot there (some contradictory stories from various bods keen to get in on the tale) but mostly before archives were digitised. Most of what I have found is on microfiche. No big biography or true crime book or film has been published yet, but I will bet you £1000 that one will come out in the next five years once someone grabs hold of the full story. It's a Speilberg romp; a Netflix series; one of those that, if I had the backing or the connections, I should make myself. No doubt. Hey ho. Let me know what you think, if you have a mo or two. If I or the article disappear without trace, you will know the conspiracy theories were right and the CIA are hushing things up. I will leave secret signs in the dust. Anna (talk) 23:01, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Haha! I wish you good luck there. Thanks for inviting me, Anna. I'll certainly try and have a look over. If Brad Pitt could consider a dramatization of Rory Stewart's time in Afgan (with Orlando Bloom in the title role), I think you'd certainly stand a good chance with Speilberg over this one!" Martinevans123 (talk) 12:45, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Anna, I've dome a quick initial skim over. Hope that helps. One of your refs, for The Washington Post, seem to be empty. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:01, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Dear Trouper, you are, indeed, Super. A star. Shining like a sun. Thanks so much for your time (esp formatting the refs). I (rather foolishly) overran a 'free' newspaper archive trial period. I would like to share the account with you, if you would find it useful. It's UScentric, but useful nonetheless, full access, and runs for six months. Let me know if you are interested. Anna (talk) 11:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

A mere trifle. The work of moments. Trouble thyself not. (and I'll let you know, thanks). Martinevans123 (talk) 11:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Ha! Not a trifle for me as I don't see very well. Anna (talk) 11:40, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Don't worry, I know the feeling. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:46, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Henry is live. *Feeling giddy*. I'd appreciate eyes on him, crazy fraud that he is. Let's share some celebratory trifle. (I do love trifle). Anna (talk) 11:56, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

"There was some doubt as to his birth name, however, as he was caught with approximately 30 passports in various names and nationalities. His aliases included Evans..." No relation, as far as I know. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah ha! He is not hiding in New york at all, but eating trifle in Wales! Will the real Henry please stand up. (Take the bowl off your knees first). Anna (talk) 12:39, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Hahaha. You look great in that nurse's uniform, Anna. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Your edit on Elon Musk

Hello. I had asked that my edit be discussed on the TP and I am not rv it again for now but I disagree with your edit because I was not calling Musk a magnet in the voice of WP. Not sure what you mean by "unencyclopedic" or trivial there because to me the statement fit perfectly in the section about the Joe Rogan interview. This is a disputed edit and it should be discussed on the TP but if you insist on your change the TP edit request needs to be changed.

Please go to Talk:Elon Musk#Wants to be known also as "a Magnet" and make the appropriate change to edit request. I had it marked as answered. Thanks!TeeVeeed (talk) 13:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi there TeeVeeed. I have corrected the heading of that thread so that it makes sense. But I think Musk's "joke" is pure media trivia that has no place in the article. Are you familiar with WP:BRD? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes I noticed that you corrected the header, and yes I am familiar with BVD, and I think WP:BVD says that my change should have stayed while we hashed it out on TP. In any event, what about the request to adjust the edit request data there? I do not want to fix it myself because I am not the one who DENIED the request, (not yelling at you just trying to make my dilemma noticeable.) I CANNOT fix that because I have a green checkmark and it would not make sense for me to mark it DENIED because I approved it-thanks!TeeVeeed (talk) 14:49, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

WP:BVD? No, WP:BRD. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

You know ~ ~ I used to own a pair of BVD's ~ but I switched to Calvin Kleins yesterday ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 14:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

It seems Elon himself prefers to "go commando". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2019 (UTC) .... I'm reminded of old "Big Uncle Bruce", who used to wear reg grundies fringed with corks

ooops! That fact should really be in the article imo but I am stepping awaaay from it for a bit. It seems there are WP:Ownership issues there.TeeVeeed (talk) 15:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, right. You're "stepping away" by opening an RfC?? Hmmm good luck with that one. I think I've made my views pretty clear over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:54, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

• You people, and I include all of you here, clearly have too much time on your hands. Softlavender (talk) 00:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• Editing on the Musk article is never boring, is it. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:39, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• "I am a magnet, losers." -- Softlavender (talk) 09:45, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• "I am a Tranny Magnet losers." Martinevans123 (talk) 10:01, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Ann Widdicombe

		The BLP Barnstar
		for keeping Ann Widdicombe free of spiteful vandalism. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:32, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, we all pull together here! “There’s no I in Widdecombe Team Brexit”, as they say over in Brussels. You know how it is when one is slaving away at Wikipedia. But what a waste…. at the forefront of Muslim equality. If only she’d stuck at it, luvvie. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:31, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Semantic drift

You might be int'd in this piece from Harper's. – Sca (talk) 21:46, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah, only lowly old Harpers. (And I used to love a good thumb through a fresh Harper's and Queen, occasionally). But yes, a very amusing article, thanks. The sort of material that Miss Snodgrass is always using to prove that "Sauce for the goose is (not) sauce for the gander" over at WP:MoS. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Miss Snodgrass brought it on herself. EEng 22:15, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, her goose is well and truly cooked. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

You know ~ I once had a goose ~mitch~ (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) – I once had a goose for a neighbour. It was very cute when small, and vicious and scary when larger. I am just saying this, albeit for no good reason. Sorry. Helga the Little Goose Girl (not really) (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Boris

Yo Marty, how are you doing. Lets start with a tea. I was curious to know what your thoughts are on this turn of events. I have not heard assuring things about Boris, but that might be propaganda, who knows. DBigXrayᗙ 12:29, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Hah. A country electing some populist clown to be their leader? Thank goodness that could never happen here in the UK. But then it wasn't the country, was it. That's electoral democracy for you.... quick everyone back on the bus! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes. It's pure socialist propaganda, all that stuff. He's actually going to be all lovely, selfless, strong, stable, a bit of a genius too. And he has great hair. There is almost literally almost nothing here to to almost not like, or I am almost not literally the Mayor of Maastricht (talk) 12:56, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, I'm sure the country's children will soon be singing his praises with that quaint old British nursery rhyme "Oranges and Lemons." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:01, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

LoL, appears that what I heard is indeed accurate. But to be honest, my level of respect for him has suddenly increased after I read about the number of votes he got today. we can call him clown or whatever, but the man did have a plan to be PM and boy did he realize it, well almost. It seems to be an age of clowns and there is always a bigger one.--DBigXrayᗙ 13:49, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

It's great to see Jeremy properly dressed for once. I'm reminded of that scene in Love and Death: "Do they all have these horns?' 'No, that's the Russian Jew, the German Jews have these stripes." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Her Majesty reacts. – Sca (talk) 16:33, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Can't say I blame her. Let's hope they've got a few Land Rover Discoverys lined up for Philip. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:53, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh my goodness. Congrats to "Special Adviser" Dave-"On-The-Buses"-Cummings.... who saw that one coming? Did someone mention Lord Snooty and his Pals?? But great to see we have a new fresh-faced Leader of the House: [47]. Any advance on six months? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

You know I know a "dave" that tours on a bus. Here is a home movie we shot while in Scotland ~ (thats close to the UK) ~ Dave in Scotland~ ~mitch~ (talk) 22:08, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Bob Einstein? obviously a sad loss earlier this year. As the great Fuji says there: "we go on a bus tour... all over country.. to make a-people happy!!". Yes, it is close, but a bit too close, apparently. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Well I didn't know if you people on the other side of the Atlantic ever heard of bob ~ it's good to know someone ~ (close to Scotland) ~ thanks ~mitch~ (talk) 22:51, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes Nichola's wee favourite? ... Scottish cuisine at its finest. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:07, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

"Hello Dave? Is that Dave??" We have our own far more disturbing political nightmare version, currently playing out, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:57, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Thats horrible ~ I was more scared of the one behind the knocker dressed as a woman ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 23:04, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

"I've got nothing against you "Travelling people", but I just don't want my palm read..." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:11, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Well you know ~ usually when we get our palms red ~ it comes from very hard and laborious work ~ digging holes in the ground for Generation X to cover us up at a later date ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 23:34, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Generation X? Well yes, something like that. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:54, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

First glorious day at the dispatch box!! It makes one proud to live in a country where the elected assembly looks like a cross between an Eton College dorm fight and feeding time at the zoo. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Bryan Magee

On 27 July 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Bryan Magee, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

Spencer^T•C 21:46, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Spencer. Not a single glimmer of a BBC news report on Magee's passing. That's a shame. A great many of his BBC television programmes (most quite poor technical quality), are available on YouTube; but we can't link to any of them at the article, or even here, as they are not from "an official source" i.e. the BBC. Perhaps they've all be sold to "Philosophy Overdose"? So here, instead, in honour of Bryan Magee, is Wagner's Lohengrin Prelude performed and realized on synthesizers by Giorgio Costantini. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:18, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

No reason

[48]. Ceoil (talk) 14:00, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Ooh. Many thanks. The only track recorded at Graveyard Studios, Prestwich, which was apparently on Church Lane near to the Church pub. A Certain Ratio recorded the studio half of The Graveyard and the Ballroom there, it seems. I can only assume that is an official source. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry to be a such a depressing bastard on a Sunday afternoon, but its raining here and I hear ye have a heatwave, ye feckers. First Brexit now this.[49] Ceoil (talk) 14:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

It's all gone a bit damp and cool actually. Yes, she certainly did lose it. I've always been partial to the version by old flat top which was the B-side to "Private Life" (a few versions available on YT). Martinevans123 (talk) 14:19, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

• Old flat top? Old rotten hat. I always think listening to early demos and live versions, that Barnie and Hook had a point about Hannet's production; but in the end it did dampen the dynamics, but was next level amazing. Ceoil (talk) 14:30, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Am a fan for life. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:33, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Snap. I presume you know Gorky's Zygotic Mynci's take on English pastoralism (cant find link!) Ceoil (talk) 15:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, originally David's on piano. Happy to see that Caravan are playing Cropredy this year. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

"David's on piano" is one of the most simple, spine chilling lyrics of all time, from a song that just reps with connection to the listener (sentimental crap...passing fad). Caravan do it for me, but re Wyatt, not that I'm an auld red card holding commie or anything. Fessing up to never having heard "Private Life" before, so thanks for that. Ceoil (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Seriously though, damn fine alliteration

Your latest contribution to the Humanities is priceless, and I hope you get away with it, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:19, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Ooh, yes I do hope so. I don't want to be holed up at Leatherslade Farm for five days playing Monopoly. I guess we could always take a vote? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:07, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

'ere, Indelible, me ol' china... I 'ad that Hugh Manantees in the back of me Amazon-delivery cab the uvver nite... an' a rite bit Snooty 'e was, an' all... Martinevans123 (talk) 12:25, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

I mentioned a manatee in a Humanities edit summary today. To that extent, now you're speaking my language! I don't know nothin' 'bout no Snooty, though, I swear. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Snooty but not Snooty? I'm feeling very slightly disappointed ... DBaK (talk) 12:35, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, he's currently away, north of the border, visiting Skinny Lizzie and Gertie the Goat. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:53, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi M. Re the goings on at Albert Finney's article that person is obsessed with adding a list of films that Finney was not in. Just last week they had a night of his films on TCM and mentioned (as all legit sources do) that The Entertainer (film) (1960) was his film debut. I think the "TCM Filmog" the person uses is just a made up item. Here is the actual TCM page and none of the films the IP adds are on it. An RFPP might be the next step. I'm guessing you knew some or all of this but I'm mentioning it because I am going to be on vacation (the first one in years - yippee) this weekend and would appreciate you keeping an eye on Albert's article. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 17:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, that now seems to make sense. I was at first thrown by what seemed to be the addition of two new sources, which I later saw were empty. I guess the size of that addition was a bit of a giveaway. Strangely they have made edits since which appear to be correct. Hope your vacation is great, wherever it is! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:09, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

The motivations of editors who make both useful and nonsense edits will probably be the focus of a doctoral thesis one day - if it hasn't been already that is :-) Excellent choice for your link. A fine film and another in a long line of Finney gems. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:07, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Too true. This place has really gone to Helena Bonham Carter. There'll always be an EEngland! (talk)

Have always been quite partial to the Ricky Nelson version (Decca ‎– 31533, 1963), with that nice twangy guitar solo. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:24, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Berlins

That reference was being used to cite the fact that he was born in Marseille. Somehow when the article was expanded the ref got moved to the bit about him growing up in South Africa, where it is indeed useless because SA isn't mentioned.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:09, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. I do wish folks wouldn't go fiddling about expanding stuff. Neat little articles can get into such a mess. If I find out who was responsible, I will severely reprimand them! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:23, 2 August 2019 (UTC) p.s. "Ich bin ein Berlinser", as they say in Provence.

Well, yes "somehow" was just me being polite :) I used to read and enjoy Berlins' Guardian columns many years ago but had completely forgotten about him until you made that nomination. Might go check out his archive now.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:38, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

I used to enjoy him on Law in Action and always thought Rozenburg was a ruffian upstart by comparison. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:41, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Fat fingered idiocy

"Go spin dude" (as they say in America, I believe)

Sorry about that. The title explains it all.... - SchroCat (talk) 10:06, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

'Sno biggie. Chill thy fat beans, Schro. Could be worse. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

No biggie? I dont think so. The edit was an disgrace to the eyes of any right thinking, upstanding, saint, whose copy book, like mine, is immaculate. Please resign from your unpaid volunteer work here. ps, [50]. Ceoil (talk) 22:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

You may find the finger-breadth reduction exercise (illustrated right) a useful technique. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Marcel Berlins

On 4 August 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Marcel Berlins, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

Spencer^T•C 23:04, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind if I wait 2 and a half days to thank you. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:05, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Who’s Who

Hey, Martin - is the book, Who's Who of British Jazz: 2nd Edition a reliable source or is it like the Who's Who books in America where you pay to be included? [51] I'm reviewing Draft:Tony Russell and not seeing enough coverage in RS to pass the biography. Would appreciate your thoughts. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 12:56, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Atsme. I would always treat that book, with such a reputable editor and publisher, as entirely reliable. But I have to admit that I can't remember ever using it for any article. You may want to get confirmation from someone like User:EddieHugh, who is a bit of an expert in this area. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Here's some info from the preface, on the entry criteria: "The emphasis is on musicians who work professionally (or who did so in the past)" ... "Brief histories of a number of pioneering local jazz bands are included but it is not practical to detail all of the vast number of semi-professional jazz groups". And on how the information was collected: "Whenever feasible I have ascertained dates by referring to contemporary newspapers and magazines. This has not always been possible and even the most helpful musician cannot always provide an exact sequence of events" ... "Enormous thanks to ... all those musicians who took the time and trouble to check their entries and to offer additional information".

My conclusion: with the caveat that some of the information in the book might be supplied by the subject, it's an RS for our purposes. The same caveat probably applies to even basic 'facts' for all but the most researched biographies – even Louis Armstrong's true dob wasn't discovered until years after his death, so it's just an aside. As Martinevans123 says, the author and publisher are both well known; it's extremely unlikely that they accepted payment for entry (in any case, there's not much cachet in being included in this book – it's for aficionados). EddieHugh (talk) 17:59, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks Eddie, for your very useful comments. I though you might say something like that! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:01, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

No problem... I just checked... Tony Russell is listed as having died in 1970, which was more than 20 years before the first edition of the book was published. So it's safe to assume independence from the subject! EddieHugh (talk) 18:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Even a trombonist wouldn't pay that far in advance, would they? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:07, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The Hendre

Hi there. The full correct name of the golf club includes the "The", hence my inclusion in bolding the name, however the existing redirect does not. I have submitted a request earlier today at WP:AFC/R for the creation of a new redirect for this however there seems to be a (large) backlog. Perhaps you could help by creating it? Thanks. 80.189.131.73 (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi there. Many thanks for submitting your request. I was wholly unaware of that. I don't see why two redirects would not be possible, although I'm also unsure which might the most used. Yes, that might well be the "full correct name" that the club chooses to call itself. But Wikipedia does have its own Manual of Style, which often differs from commercial, or even conventional, usage. I wasn't sure of your rationale for removing the Golf Club Category. Why was that? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm aware of the MOS and think this one may be more of an anomaly than most, but wouldn't argue about keeping/dropping the The. I removed the category from the parent as I had added it to the redirect so that "Rolls of Monmouth Golf Club" is listed there instead, since that is what would be more expected. 80.189.131.73 (talk) 20:50, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

I think the Category:Golf clubs and courses in Wales should remain as that's what it currently is? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Currently both parent and redirect appear in the category, so there's duplication. Also The Hendre does not really refer to the golf club/course so I think it does look somewhat out of place in that category. 80.189.131.73 (talk) 21:06, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Happy to get other views at Talk:The Hendre. By all means open a thread there. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Emily Taylor

In general I see the lead as a place to say briefly what a page is about, with the details following it in separate subtitled sections. Others seem to disagree, though. Please do what you think best. Bmcln1 (talk) 21:59, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Well the lead is meant to summarise the article. Not have any unique material? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Well my feeling is that "He drowned his mother in a creek.", so to speak, would go in the lead, and the details of that awful act would come later (distressed childhood, water tasted bad for a week, etc.) Here we have a statement that ET wrote children's books, and the books themselves detailed later, but Beatrix Potter has The Tale of Peter Rabbit in the lead, as it's the most famous one, and the others later. I'm afraid none of Emily's children books are widely read any more, although she has other claims to fame as a writer. Bmcln1 (talk) 22:45, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Our Biddy

It was I who removed this material. At that point they were unreferenced and needed to be removed according the BLP. However, I should have checked the (only) reference provided more closely - as you rightly say, it provides a source for these other comments about BB which I hastily removed. It's a shame that I can't corroborate the comments from John Noakes elsewhere (I would consider The Independent as a slightly weak source on its own), but The Telegraph reports Peter Purves' comments about BB: 'She could be very difficult and she caused angst amongst all of us at various times, but she did a brilliant job.' so that's a better source which already exists in the article. [We both know that The Telegraph is in thrall to its advertisers, particularly HSBC and really doesn't deserve the appellation 'Newspaper of Recored', but that's a different story.]

I should have checked the provided reference more carefully before deleting, and moved the citation so it referred to all the relevant comments. Thanks for pointing this out.

Did you also make a comment about Barbara Plett User? I think it was you... Thanks Fortnum (talk) 13:17, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it was me. I think you should go ahead and make that move for Barbara. But I think it's Usher, lol. Many thanks for your note re Baxter. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

lol - 'User'makes her a different proposition altogether. Glad you agree about her though - it's a peculiarly Wikipedia thing I think: the refusal to call someone by the name they themselves have chosen. Thanks Fortnum (talk) 20:40, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure we'd all welcome Biddy's input. "... And here's one I made earlier." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[52]

Mr. Evans, Llangollen

Relative of yours?

Compare:

Whenish will you be backish? – Sca (talk) 16:31, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Good Lord! It's great-great-great Uncle Oakes, a.k.a. Dublin's very own wonderful "King of Spades", a.k.a. Philip Parris Lynott. Sorry, am currently too busy promoting Estonian Kickboxing. But fret ye not, I'll be backish... if only to get that rouge Admin "Sarah Connor" finally indeffed. Indefinitely yours, Eric Hornilons (talk) 20:53, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Hey dude!

Are you, like, OK, man? (That was my Caring Hippie persona – I hope you liked it.) Best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:34, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

As that great deadbeat poet Dylan might have said, "Chill thy contraflow bean, guys". Don't worry, DBAK. Just checked myself in for a month or two at the notorious Betty Ford Clinic for Incurable Remoaners. "Godspeed ye Saint Boris", up-yours-Delors, Huw Mongoose 123 (talk) 21:06, 2 October 2019 (UTC) "No marigolds in the promised land, There'll be a hole in the ground where they used to grow"

Lovely to see you backish! Don't miss my talk today, Jessyeish. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

So very pleased that she appears on the Main Page. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

She appears there, after 117k views before already, and poor Günter Kunert didn't because I was too slow improving. Life is not fair ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt, is that a deliberate Herbie/Der Weg reference (Das Leben ist nicht fair) or just One Of Those Things? DBaK (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Not deliberate but would have been good, Mensch and peaceful revolution on our national holiday. Siegfried today! Did you know that the peaceful change for infobox opera happened on Talk:Siegfried (opera), in 2013, and hasn't been archived? One of my favourite talks, did you know, Worm That Turned? Or did the arbs never look at educated exchange of thoughts between the key parties of the alleged infobox wars then? - Best wishes, Martin! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Martin, I am delighted to see you dropping in, or indeed dropping out, here. I do hope the clinic is going well – how is Betty these days? I am – of course – loving the links. See you around, cheers, DBaK (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Well, ya know... as they say over in Cracker land, ... "Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out ... (give up) with me".... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 6 October 2019 (UTC) ... Betty sends her love.

Jesus, where have you been?

You had us worried. EEng 06:05, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Oy vay! Ah, ya know, I’ve stepped in the middle of seven sad forests, etc. etc.. I think they call it "a working sabattical". Yours, eternally ship-wrecked, Man Friday 123 (talk) 07:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Cartoon

In the current Private Eye.[53]--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:57, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, regrets... seems like the Old Bill has a few of those too. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:41, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

But, did you know (I didn't until doing a web search) that the cartoon isn't fictional?[54]--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:48, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Owch. Some serious airbrushing needed there. Not sure I'd want Ian Watkins anywhere near my thighs, thanks very much. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:54, 4 October 2019 (UTC) p.s. note the habitual Welsh spelling there.

I wonder if the cartoonist Tim Cordell saw the above mentioned article. He has used exactly the same "Now then, now then" tattoo of Savile. Seems like more than a coincidence.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:58, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

New to me, he's quite good, isn't he! No, It's Never Too Much Fun For James. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:23, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Your mission

Good grief, I was afraid it would take some Baksheesh to get you backish. Now get busy & step up to the plate. – Sca (talk) 12:42, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Well, I was hoping for something a little more exotic. I must admit, over at ITN, things do tend to get a bit dizzy. Ali-(Um)-Bongo123-3-3-3-3 (talk) 17:48, 5 October 2019 (UTC) [55]

You could do GA reviews ;) - I had hoped for one for Jessye Norman while on the Main page but the below pushed her off ;) - well, 4 days was a lot, can't complain. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:03, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Well, I guess I could. Jessye's Sieglinde, was probably stronger than Peter's. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

They played her "Hehrestes Wunder" tonight, which made you believe a miracle happened even on radio. Sieglinde introduces the theme which brings the whole thing to a utopia close. Tomorrow! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Wow. There's a James Levine Met clip on YT. Just stunning. "Herrlichste Maid!!" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:14, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank your for copyediting the image alts for Clara S. Could you please also go over the wording, - I don't have vocabulary for hair styles and dresses from the 19th century. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:18, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I have a feeling you’ve come to the right place. EEng 11:20, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Ooooh, worra bitch! "I can see by what you carry that you come from.... Barrytown." Martinevans123 (talk) 12:06, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Peter Sissons

On 5 October 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Peter Sissons, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:24, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much, Amakuru. It really was just a very small tidy up. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Ginger Baker

On 6 October 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Ginger Baker, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:09, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, MSGJ. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

My jumpers for goal posts were old plastic drums for toms and knitting needles for sticks. Those were happy days. Ceoil (talk) 21:13, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Ron would be so proud of you. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Nice to see another serious music head back and about, bty. There are not many people I can have a stand up argument with over the finer posints of Nick Drake. Ceoil (talk) 01:34, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Martin! I heard the news (and some music) on radio travelling, and it's so lovely to see it all done on arrival, not having to dig up refs for another great soul who left us music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

listen! (looks official enough to me) - I had the great pleasure to just have heard his debut in Germany (well, second performance after the premiere last Sunday) and can't believe he has no article, but that will soon change. His Manon - of course - has one. Emotions high! Don't miss that video ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

[56] has been on my heavy rotation for most of the week. We all know a lot of people who have died, but its not something rock music has ever been good at addressing in the mainstream, a few recent Bob Dylan records excepted. Anyway, Jim Carroll does it for me, and its nice to see Reed play second fiddle for once...much as I love him, he was an attention screaming f**ker. Ceoil (talk) 22:18, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

ps how evokative is it to look back and see Robert Quine rocking out in the vid from this distance, the man was a god. Ceoil (talk) 22:29, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Quine sure knew how to rock out. He had some hot licks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:40, 12 October 2019 (UTC) the fun begins at 2:02

Quine's finest moment [57] Ceoil (talk) 23:05, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Japan 28 - 21 Scotland

Never mind Scotland. What an incredible match. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:44, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Oh dear. Spare a thought for Joe and Rory. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:14, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Oooooo, now that was tight. Seems Wales have managed to elbow their way into the semi-finals. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:13, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Owch, 3-26... MaPimp-my-Boks.com. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:21, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream

Are a guilty pleasure, as are Swoon era Prefab Sprout. No way will I admit to liking these band on my talk page. Ceoil (talk) 18:23, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Haha, yes I know exactly what you mean. Can were always cool. But Phaedra was an utter revelation to me, thanks to that nice Mr Ravenscroft, and Old Beardie, of course. But then I started looking and discovered that music could actually be much weirder. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:28, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I used to get stoned to Alpha Centauri when much younger and hashish and mushrooms ruled my musical taste. For out and out weirdness, always liked[58], who make pink floyd look like catholic priests. Ceoil (talk) 18:33, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Haha, yes. Those were the daze. If only I could remember them. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:39, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Lucky me that I married a Delia Derbyshire type. Not sure what type she married...prob ...just...nerd.Ceoil (talk) 18:45, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Poor woman. Wasn't she trapped inside a Dalek for 20 years or something? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:48, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

No Idea, bbc was illegal in 80s Ireland. so that dr who stuff its meaningless to me. But however BBC workshop output is AMAZING, maybe except for ther very early (1950s) synth drones Ceoil (talk) 19:10, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I've always enjoyed the story of the byplay between Ron and Delia “Did I really write this?”, an amazed Grainer inquired after first hearing her version of his most famous melody, with Derbyshire answering the question, “Most of it.” :-) Enjoy your weekend C&M. MarnetteD|Talk 18:58, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, MarnetteD! Just off for my weekly therapy session with Uncle Monty. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

You are welcome M! MarnetteD|Talk 19:09, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Checking out Phaedra now Martin. Ceoil (talk) 19:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm as po-faced and year zero punk rock as the rest of them, but this hits, somewhat uncomfortably, home. The interviewee looks and sounds frighteningly like a younger brother (and version) of [cough]. ([59]. 02:31, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Yay!! Bring it on, Donald Tusk.... Brenda from Bristol 123 (talk) 21:20, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

"Get up in the morning, slaving for Brexit,

So that every poll can be fed...

Poor, poor me, Remain-a-lites."

(leave means "leave it out, mate!")

Thank you

October

... with thanks from QAI

... for comments towards article improvement in Ritchie's case, - nice to be not alone. I typed a lot on my talk this morning, ending on "should be unblocked", - and then found out he was ;) - "don't believe in miracles, rely on them" (Mascha Kaléko). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:27, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Aww. You are very welcome. That takes me back to Colin Blunstone in 1972 (Epic EPC8434, UK #31). Martinevans123 (talk) 13:12, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Today, I am proud of a Márta on the Main page, finally! - Here's my ideal candidate for arbcom. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:09, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

B*st*rds!

Martin, thank you for your wholly ludicrous and totally welcome response to my OMG Sad Git Moment™ thing, which cheered me up very considerably, you b*st*rd! I particularly enjoyed reading, or rather looking at, User behavior analytics. I can see lots of words there and if I really concentrate I can make some of them mean some things – albeit mostly the short words like "and", "but", "Marmite", "valve oil", "mute" etc. I see other words there also but they mean to me not much eek wordthing malfunction malfunction beep beep explode. So I'm, like, thanks dude. DBaK (talk) 18:15, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I must admit I had rather skipped over petabytes, SIEM and Network behavior anomaly detection.... But I'm pretty sure I do get Advanced persistent threats all the time at this damned place! Lol .... and they have the cheek to call Brexit ""Purge-a-Tory"?!! Mad Monster Party 123 (talk) 18:29, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

The Grays zone

Interesting precedent: 2000 Dover incident.
I swear I ran a search of the Grays article for "Chin" before I added my apparently belated comment, now deleted. – Sca (talk) 12:44, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

As far as the organized crime behind human trafficking is concerned, one wonders how many cases never get discovered, with the dead bodies quietly disposed of. (And no jokes about the tip of the iceberg) Martinevans123 (talk) 14:03, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Well, it was a refrigerated container, wasn't it? I've been wondering whether the 39 were actually frozen, but that seems to have been media speculation. – Sca (talk) 12:50, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Oddly enough, the Grays story isn't in any other European Wikis' versions of ITN. – Sca (talk) 13:08, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Marty Feldman article

Thanks for your edits. Though in 13 years, I've never before joked on WP, I couldn't help but to add the last line. 21:45, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

What a waste. But you have by deep respect. I can only offer 12. "I should be glad...." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 24 October 2019 (UTC) ....after only 13 years, you must learn to sign properly!, lol

Rob

I think for a certain generation, back in the late 70s, this defined integrity. Things have changed though, right is the new working class left and all that mind bending brexit/trump bollocks, I still listen to a lot Billy Brag albums and interviews, but. ps if its not obvious, I am deeply into Robert Wyatt.Its interesting thoughn how things have changed, back in my day the CIA was known for for its support of Regan re central america, so we had Dead Kennedys; now the CIA are heroes - whistle blowers and bastions of institutional American integrity. Go figure. Ceoil (talk) 12:20, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

I know Brag and Dead Kennedys tried to take down the artist/audience thing, buit still, not better than these guys[60], whose public image is normally quite fearsome. See also [61]. Ceoil (talk) 14:07, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Rock Bottom and Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard two of my all time favourite records ever. Both just masterpieces, in my opinion. Timeless. That 2006 BBC Four recording of Gharbzadegi (might just also be on YT) is slightly beyond a masterpiece. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree. A major point for me is the inquiring, broad musical taste, and uplifting good humour for a man who has been through some pretty dire times. I know the song "Gharbzadegi" very well, usually have heard early on Sunday mornings; ie late during the night before, alas have been unable yet to track down the BBC4 versions you recommend. On-it though, may god help me. Ceoil (talk) 21:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

That live version, from BBC Four's Free Will and Testament (2003), with Larry Stabbins on sax, Janette Mason on piano, Steve Lamb on bass, Harry Beckett on trumpet, Liam Genockey on drums, Ian Maidman on vocals and guitar.... is not copyright free alas, although still utterly brilliant. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:38, 28 October 2019 (UTC) p.s. clue: search for "Robert Wyatt performing "Gharbadzegi" lol

Another favourite - "And thought each little song, Was less than three minutes long, Mike squeezed a solo in somehow". Dry af. Ceoil (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Found it, cheers Ceoil (talk) 21:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

If it had not been for Wyatt, I would never have heard the brilliant Dudu Pukwana and Mongezi Feza and all that other wonderful South African stuff. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:56, 28 October 2019 (UTC) clue: search for "Dudu Pukwana - Mongezi Feza : Sonia" lol

Not really my thing Martin. I'm about drums and bass at heart, sill looking for Afro-Rock re Ginger Baker in Lagos 1971 type stuff. Here is the electronic version, imm[62]. Ceoil (talk) 22:07, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

That's pretty good. Ah yes, drums..... [63] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:14, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

I am pretty, pretty, impressed, listening, nice one. 22:25, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Also 10cc, and esp Godley & Creme had pop nailed. Ceoil (talk) 03:53, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Enough to make a grown man... cry. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:54, 29 October 2019 (UTC)... and I still remember feeling quite stunned by that video, back in 1985.

Policy

The almighty rule book trumps logic again. – Sca (talk) 14:34, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes. That comes as little surprise! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:45, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

All Time Top 1000 Albums

Dear Martinevans Thank you also, much appreciated -- just showing my ignorance, but you are quite right in putting the book in Itals -- I just did not know how to do it! Any reinstating of the deleted 130 Album Edits would be appreciated -- I dare not put them back for fear of being blocked by MrOllie who seems to be a law to himself!

He has now deleted the chat and has not answered my last communication so I am now at a loss what to do -- but it feels good too have support from JG66 and Rlendog though. RegardsMuso805 (talk) 19:06, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

discussion with another editor
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
copy of last talk to MrOllie Would you please respond to my requests. If your reason for not responding is because of the word vandal, then I will take it back, but I am not going to allow you to make over 100 deletes without having some kind of discussion and arbitration from other Editors. I think what you have done was hasty and you are misinformed about the "citations to research published by a small group of researchers". This book was from the then largest poll of votes (as stated on the cover of the third edition). This book is cited on Wiki many many times over many years. The last book was out in 2000. My main reason for adding reference to this book is to get a fair balance between the Rolling Stone Top 500 and Larkin's Top 1000. There is also many references to 1001 Albums To Listen To before You die -- this book is a collection of albums from a small team of writer/researchers - maybe you are getting Larkin's book mixed up? His book is highly regarded and I think it is important to get the balance right between the USA (Rolling Stone 500) and the UK (Larkin's Book). After all the Rolling Stone book was from writers only -- Larkin's book was a much bigger base of people, including writers, musicians and most importantly the fans like myself. Please enter into sensible dialogue as I hope you will see that what you have done is simply not fairMuso805 (talk) 09:30, 29 October 2019 (UTC). PS I have just seen from the cover of the 3rd Edition it states "Over 200,000 votes from the fans, the experts and the critics". That I hope you will agree is not as you state "your primary purpose on Wikipedia is to add citations to research published by a small group of researchers".

Thanks for the info, Muso805. You may need to take your "discussions" with that other editor to an appropriate noticeboard. No-one can be "a law to himself" at Wikipedia. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:19, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Muso805 (talk) 13:15, 4 November 2019 (UTC)Martinevans123 and Rlendog -- I am also so sorry to trouble you, but JG66 has suggested further opinion from you and Rlendog - if you have time see the following. I don't want to stir it up again, nor do I want to break any rules. "paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep" (Stephen Stills)

JG66, so sorry to trouble you again but your experience and advice would be welcome. Just when I thought this was done and dusted I received a note from Swarm saying:

JG66 is warned for personal attacks and edit warring. Beyond that, from what I can see, the merits of the source in question is a legitimate content dispute, not to be authoritatively decided here but by dispute resolution and consensus at a centralized location. Neither party acted in bad faith, and there's really no purpose in continuing to draw out the dispute here. The fact that this thread has continued to degenerate into shaming and bullying is particularly unsettling, and I doubt there is any good will left on either side after the egregious behavior we've had the misfortune of witnessing. Who's more "right" in the dispute is irrelevant to this board—both editors are warned against continued systematic mass editing until the dispute has been resolved in some way, and JG is warned against continued combative conduct, and if any of it continues on either side, blocking is the next step. But beyond that, keep this dispute on the content side. It's unlikely that there is any remaining good will between these editors, and the hostility and aggression is to blame, not the existence of a dispute to begin with. ~Swarm~ {sting} 00:24, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

From what he says (Swarm) can I just forget it and carry on editing as Jehochman stated or is this the equivalent of it being passed to the supreme court. Its all a bit silly -- especially the slap on the wrists you were given this is power posturing at its worst - - lordy lordy, I really cannot be arsed with going now to a 'dispute resolution' -- surely not? Muso805 (talk) 09:49, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Well, whoever Swarm is, they seem to have chosen to override Jehochman (power posturing? – could be), specifically the latter's comment: "I am not an expert on music topics, but if people who know the field think this source is good, it's fine to use it. I am satisfied with the explanations provided." Some admins are just fantastic, in my experience; so much so that, when editing articles, it can be a complete surprise to discover they're admins at all. But the ones who don't edit articles, who simply administrate the whole time, well ... Muso, can I suggest you take this to either Rlendog's or Martinevans123's talk page? My feeling, as it has been from the start, is that the book's absolutely fine and indeed better than so many sources that have long appeared in album articles. Others who weighed in about this at the AN/I supported that view, at least in part, and Jehochman seemed fine with it as a result. I just don't want to lead you astray by saying (again) "Yes, go for it", and you'll no doubt receive less emotive comments from Rlendog and Martin. As you stated early on at AN/I, Rlendog has undone loads of the reverts, yet that too seems to have been overlooked in Swarm's decree. JG66 (talk) 12:46, 4 November 2019 (UTC)Muso805 (talk) 13:15, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure if my suggestion that you were owed an apology constitutes "shaming". But that question aside, I guess a good place to start might be to ask about the source at WP:RSN. If all interested parties are explicitly asked to offer a opinion, then "dispute resolution" might be needed only if there was any disagreement? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Goud moaning

Goud moaning Marton. Goud nose. The B.B.G reparts Heavy farting in Nort Africa and I was kopt awoke by the soond if stroong bumming on the chinnel cost all nit. The ollies are whining the ware. Simon Adler (talk) 03:56, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Ha, zo! Zat is all very interestink. Yours, The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies 123 (talk) 09:09, 2 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. could I possibly offer you a piece of my sister Dolly's upside-down cake??

Ohh Réne! Simon Adler (talk) 04:44, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Ohh Yvette! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:11, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Is this to do with the new coach pf Bayern Munich? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:18, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

If only I knew. For all I know, it could be about that other "Hansi". Martinevans123 (talk) 14:23, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I jyst love that Bayern appointed Herr Flick. Wonder if he has a secretary called Helga? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:26, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

These football managers never last very long. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Archive

Hi, I've just moved User talk:Martinevans123/Archive 14 out of mainspace. Leaving it for you to integrate into your archive navigation box at the top, or to re-arrange as needed. – Uanfala (talk) 20:15, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. Not sure how that happened. Nor how you managed to spot it so quickly. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:37, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Fairport Clean Up

Martin, your help please. There is a mess on the Fairport - What We Did On Our Holidays - review section. I tried to clean it up but have made it worse. Hands up - my skills still need some sharpening. Ideally I wanted to revert it to how it was before the change yesterday morning. If you have time or inclination could you add your fairy dust?Muso805 (talk) 10:00, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi Muso. Thanks for dropping by. I'll certainly try and have a look. Oi!!! Who are you calling a fairy?? And here's an interview that deserves to be added to Richard's article. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:11, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Blimey Martin!, what took you so long to do it! But thanks anyway.Muso805 (talk) 10:21, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I saw them again in August this year and was very thrilled by this guy who played a totally barnstorming set. Playing better than ever. Just wonderful. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:26, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Also - I won't dare put it back in case I am breaking rules - but did you mean to remove the All Time Top 1000 link i reinstated on 4th November after the earlier mass wipeout?Muso805 (talk) 10:29, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

I reverted back to the 15:24, 28 October 2019‎ version as a baseline, with apologies to User:Ronaldo1948. We all now know that the All Time Top 1000 is a very good WP:RS, so please re-add at your leisure, skillset permitting. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the link - wonderful stuff!Muso805 (talk) 10:33, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Caravan, Seth Lakeman, Richard Thompson and Martin Simpson were also highlights for me. But I managed to avoid the Frank Turner moshpit! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:38, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Gotcha, will do now I know it's safe! (is it safe?, is it safe?, is it safe? Come on now what movie?)Muso805 (talk) 10:37, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

You oughta know that it's never safe at Wikipedia. It's just an endless marathon. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Most Impressed you got that one! And thanks for reminder, I'm just digging out Martin Simpson's great cover of Blues Run The GameMuso805 (talk) 11:04, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

.... and just in case you'd forgotten how hair looked in the 80s....here's good old "Professor" Magnus in that wonderfully PC Thomas Dolby video.... "Good Heavens Miss Sakamoto, you're beautiful!". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:23, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, but Howard Jones runs him a close second?Muso805 (talk) 12:50, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

How very true. "What Is Hairspray, anyway?" Martinevans123 (talk) 12:55, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Ronaldo 1948: No worries re the reversion, I have re-added what I had inserted about the various variations in cover artwork. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronaldo1948 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

"Emma-Emma Thynn... gonna write your name high up on that wheelie bin." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

punk

I'm not sure its your thing, but I see this as built from knives, and almost an art object; so ruthlessly focused and stripped down it could hang in the Met. The band are seriously under appreciated. ps and not unrelated Ginger interviewed by someone who understands what he is talking about. He seems genuinely flattered when when asked to play some of the rudiments he must have spent years practicing. Ceoil (talk) 22:54, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, London's answer to real music. But I know exactly what you mean. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 10 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. I've never actually discovered but..... what exactly are ""PR shoes"?

p.p.s. yes, what a wonderful interview.

Waiting for the man is a good comparison to wire. That recording and vocal is tight as fk, and though I've heard it about a billion times, its still fresh never ceases to amaze; the bass line is *just*. To stretch the art history analogy, Soft Machine are barogue, ginger is early-modernism, the velves are picasso, and wire were Black Circle. Ceoil (talk) 23:18, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

pps; pr shoes are late 60S pimp wear. As were big straw hats. I think the point is that the dude was not a junky and intimidating...fashionably decked out and flush with cash. Visually, I think this captures the scene. Obviously Mick was hugely influenced by Lou. I like the stones vid especially because its full of colour, while the Velves were always shot in black and white. Ceoil (talk) 23:25, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Haha, that's just Mick's sunny day-glo white-jeans stroll down St. Mark's Place to see a drinkin' buddy friend! The mental image I've always carried of "I'm Waiting for the Man" has been far darker and dirtier. More of a nightmare, really. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. but that Sonny Rollins solo may still be the finest piece of sax in rock music. p.p.s. and thanks for the shoe info, we obviously need an article for Pimp wear of the 1960s....

I get the same buzz from [64], and yes I know it is all very deliberate and stage managed, with low charisma to us plebs etc, but jasus, that some electricity boy. Ceoil (talk) 00:01, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Not sure Martin if your taste goes this far, but [65], is perhaps the best of the 90s, as smashie, or nicey!! might say. Ceoil (talk) 08:36, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Haha, yes they might. "Do you remember the Newcomers on television. mate??" Thoroughly poptastic tracks mate!! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:46, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

You can romanticise the 5.2 Lou Reed going uptown all you want, but the skinny jeaned, gaunt, and give a fuck Keef in this junkie vid is where I am at. ps Cale was cooler than either of them ever was c 1968. pps, Thomas Dolbay's autobio, on my desktop, is amazing; *very* bright dude; up there in rewarding interview stakes with Paddy McAloon. Have a podcast where him and Eno are chatting. Hollly....Ceoil (talk) 11:25, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

.... and here's a different version of a good old classic. Sure works for me! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

This is geniounly tear jerking.[66] The footage of two hoodie thieving bastards behind sharing their spoils them is icing on the cake. Heroes of CCVT!, although I blame fucking Lars. (talk) 13:12, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Nice version. Surely you mean: "casual young Melbourne shoppers going about their normal law-abiding business"? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

I love the way she is totally the boss; he pimp walks in with his cache, but is pushed aside and a bitch within 4 seconds. But yes, mostly upstanding citizens; Lars has a lot to answer for. Ceoil (talk) 14:30, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Lost in all of this is sax solos in rock; best has to be David Sanborn. Cool looking dude, good lungs, and worked with Bowie. Ceoil (talk) 22:36, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, a great player. As far as sax in rock goes, it's hard to beat "a little bit of this and that a little bit of that, oh-oh!!" who has never cased to amaze me when I've seen him play live. My all-time favorite is probably this guy, but then he covered rock, soul, funk and jazz, and of course blues with the genius that was Champion Jack: mmmmmmm. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:00, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

To me, less is more. its like Elgar; bits and pieces are fine, but not so interested in a full blown sax band. In that spirit, here is a nice minimalist tune.[67]. Ceoil (talk) 23:22, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

ps, that king Curtis vid is, wow. Ceoil (talk) 23:27, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it's a real gem. "This week I 'ave been mostly listen' to vintage XTC." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:57, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

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Hi Kbrown (WMF). You'll realise why I have mixed feelings about Fram if you care to consult my block log. But I'd be pleased to complete your 3-minute survey. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

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ITN recognition for Terry O'Neill (photographer)

On 19 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Terry O'Neill (photographer), which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:25, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. I see that the BBC tells us: "He photographed the Queen twice. In 2001 he revealed on BBC Radio 4's Desert Island Discs how he had got her to smile during the second photo shoot in 1992 - a year described by the Queen as an "annus horribilis" - by telling a horse-racing joke." Might be worth adding. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:42, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Sharing the page with Hevrin Khalaf, see my talk for memorial and protest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:26, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Remembering the dead is today's topic, at least in Protestant Germany. So here we have the sad list of the 2019 deaths so far, Márta Kurtag on the German Main page, and Totentanz, and dealing with the latest, I'm not sure if I heard this, but could very well be, matches this, - I think I remember the Britten. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda. That's good of User:Klbrain to nominate Stephen Cleobury. I do hope he can help with sources for the CDs. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Most are sourced now. And no doubt they all exist. discogs has 93 entries, but is no reliable source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:15, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, no doubt. But as we know, some editors make a point of not posting unless everything is sourced to an RS. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:35, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

sure, om my way to please them, and still not be late, as for Márta Kurtag, grrrr. Can you read this, and if yes add? Because I seem to have just used Gramophone too much, and they want me to subscribe. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

same --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Beati --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

When did "Archive of Recorded Church Music" get the copyright from BBC TV's Omnibus, I wonder. But yes, very nice. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:29, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Byker Hill

Hi Martin – do you mind if I change the disambiguation on this article from Byker Hill (Martin Carthy album) to Byker Hill (album), as there doesn't seem to be another album with this title, making the disambiguation by artist redundant? Richard3120 (talk) 21:54, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

No, of course not. Go right ahead, that makes complete sense. Thanks for spotting that and for telling me. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2019 (UTC) p.s. in fact, I've gone ahead and moved it to save you the trouble!

Cheers, that's good of you. It's not an area of music I'm especially knowledgeable about, but Wikipedia definitely needs to improve its coverage of British folk artists and their music, and you and Ceoil seem to be the only ones doing anything in this field, so good work. Richard3120 (talk) 01:00, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Stephen Cleobury

On 24 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Stephen Cleobury, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Kees08 (Talk) 22:36, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Aye, and therefore be you merry, Rejoice and be merry, Set sorrow aside Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 24 November 2019 (UTC) BACH: "In dulci jubilo" BWV729

Listening to "Hodie" from the 9 lessons: I reverted an IP who added his first wife and 2 daughters without a ref, but it's in the Guardian obit. Too tired to word that, - could you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:08, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Gerda, I'll try and take a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I translated to German, took a break before turning to recordings, and noticed the next. He composed a mass for us, DYK 2012, everything in the article was sourced back then, but now, some sources are gone. Sad. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Maybe we should just stop doing ITN/RD Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Stop putting flowers on graves? Can you believe that Cleobury had no article in German? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

That is a surprise, I must say. And a very good addition, thanks to you. Well, I guess if someone is suffering enough to write it down, etc.... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

musical flowers --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:57, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Gary Rhodes

On 27 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Gary Rhodes, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:57, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks MSG, even though Gary never used very much. Also pleased to say that this appears to be not a copyvio. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:59, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

RIP Clive James

When Clive met Old Beardie. One of the funniest, driest, most honest writers and commentators ever to write or commentate. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes. I remember "Clive James in Australia" in the 80s, it being the first time my father and I shared wry, sardonic humour, it was cannot miss TV, but had no idea until about 20 years later that he was also such a renowned critic. Of everything he wrote however, this middle brow vent is prob my favourite, for its forensic humour. Ceoil (talk) 22:47, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Haha. Just brilliant.... "Daenerys can’t lose. After all, she has dragons for an air force. She also has access to the only reliable supply of artificial fabrics in the realm, and on her form a sheer negligee drapes wrinkle-free, like Ban-Lon on a Barbie doll: the Hollywood concept of feminine allure always did depend on a certain insouciance about wearing nightwear by day. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Now, now, the first two F&I books and first GoT tv series are amazing and submersive by any standards. He does rather cut later through iterations I suppose. Ceoil (talk) 22:57, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for updating List of In Our Time programmes. I see there is still a programme that needs to have the people on it mentioned. Many thanks for your help, Vorbee (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done No worries. A few links still needed, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Clive James

On 29 November 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Clive James, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 01:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:05, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Well done. One thing about these bios, I don't like a long list of professions. If a comedian, for eg, had a ghost bio, is he a writer. Or is is Coogan now a media critic? Frankly I hve a hard time considering James a poet; maybe he sandwiched that in among other accomplishments, back in the day. Ceoil (talk) 07:08, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

In fact he published quite a lot of poetry. He speaks about it in that interview with Mary Beard. He said the things he enjoyed writing most were song lyrics! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:56, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

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Copyright violations

"Best known for..." 15 years of sockpuppetry and picking fights over nothing
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I removed a copyright violation, in which this exact text was reproduced from a newspaper article: "Humphrys denied interrupting Clarke 32 times in the interview, the source of the complaint. Aitken was subsequently jailed for perjury." You restored the copyright violation. Are you aware that you can't violate other people's copyright in this way? Kaerana (talk) 09:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC) I think those are just facts. If they are not, I think the issue can be easily solved by swapping a few words around. Or even by "a re-write." Your edit summary said "mostly a copyright violation of the cited Independent article." But I assume you meant this article in I-news. The actual ref, placed next to those sentences, was to BBC's 2008 Desert Island Discs which was, in fact, no longer working. So I've updated the url. I'm just re-listening to that programme to see if he does indeed mention the Aitken incident. I can't remember from the first time I heard it. In the meantime, I see that you have just deleted that text all over again, with the helpful edit summary: "do not restore copyright violations. You must rewrite it so that it is not a copyright violation." If you feel it would be more useful to report me to the appropriate noticeboard, for my dreadful misdemeanour, rather than attempt a minor re-write, I guess that's what you'll have to do. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:54, 1 December 2019 (UTC) What possible relevance could it have if they are "just facts"? You can't plagiarise - that's the inviolable rule. If someone removes a copyright violation, don't put it back unchanged. You must rewrite it so that it is not a copyright violation. Kaerana (talk) 10:02, 1 December 2019 (UTC) Wholly relevant facts. I think any "copyright violation" was extremely minor. I don't see how it was "plagiarism" as the source was very plainly provided, with a web link. If you want to step down off your lecture stage for just a moment, you might want to note that the Desert Island Discs programme doesn't mention the Aitken interview at all, and only mentions his interviewing style in general. Humphreys does speak very eloquently, however, from about 36:33, about his relationship with Sanderson and his son Owen. So that might be worth expanding. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:14, 1 December 2019 (UTC) Plagiarism is plagiarism, even if you say "here is where I plagiarised this stuff from". Are you genuinely not able to understand that copying text verbatim from a source is a copyright violation? Kaerana (talk) 10:20, 1 December 2019 (UTC) As far as I know, plagiarism is "presenting someone else's work or ideas as your own", i.e. not giving a source. But thanks so much for the incessant and patronising scolding. It's great editing Wikipedia, isn't it. We all get to collaborate to improve articles. Even by just suggesting minor re-writes. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC) p.s. the Aitken topic has been there since this addition by User:Martpol on 14 April 2005. I see that you've been blocked before for not understanding what constitutes a copyright violation. It is unfortunate that this problem is recurring. Kaerana (talk) 10:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC) How lovely of you to check. Why were those blocks given exactly? Perhaps you should compare notes with User:Fram for the indef and month-long blocks he so generously gave me? But the problem with block logs is that they don't explain if and why blocks were subsequently overturned by other more reasonable admins. If "the unfortunate problem" is beyond your powers of persuasion or reproach here, then I guess your duty as a diligent Wikipedian is to go ahead and report me to the appropriate noticeboard. But before we all get sued by I-news (or is it just me, I've never been too clear about that) perhaps you'd better get an admin like User:Diannaa to rush over to John Humphrys and rev-del that dreadful copyvio? Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC) They do explain if and why blocks were subsequently overturned. For example, "User has promised not to repeat these mistakes again" after one of them. But you are repeating these mistakes again. Kaerana (talk) 10:46, 1 December 2019 (UTC) "Repeating these mistakes again.. "? These are YouTube videos with embedded "Licensed to YouTube by.." statements, are they? Goodness me, I've just been to check on your "past history". What a surprise for someone so clued-up on copyright violation policy. Anybody might think you were a disgruntled sockpuppet of a permanently blocked editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:58, 1 December 2019 (UTC) I see you were blocked twice for sockpuppetry as well so I guess you must know about such things. Kaerana (talk) 18:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC) There is a 10-word overlap between the source document and the article. Martinevans123 is not the person who originally added the content; that was someone else back in August. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:42, 1 December 2019 (UTC) 20 words were identical, not 10, and the rest was very closely paraphrased. I did not say that Martinevans123 added the copyright violation originally; just that when I removed it, he restored it, and then appeared not to comprehend that it was a copyright violation. Kaerana (talk) 18:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC) Diannaa, whose skills and advice I completely respect, doesn't seem to share your view of the seriousness of my crime. I'm sure we'd all appreciate a quick demonstration from you of how that relatively modest passage could be re-worded to allow for its restoration to the John Humphrys article, avoiding any copyright violation. Meanwhile, I must warmly congratulate you on keeping a completely block-free and criticism-free Wikipedia career, for all of its 12 hours and 40 minutes. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:19, 1 December 2019 (UTC) Earwig's tool shows the overlap between the source webpage and the Wikipedia article at diff#928738341. The words that are directly copied are "...the source of the complaint. Aitken was subsequently jailed for perjury." (it's actually 11 words.) Earwig's tool shows additional overlap, which consists of quotations.— Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:26, 1 December 2019 (UTC) I thought about attempting a re-write, but drew a blank as to how it could be worded differently. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC) Yes, I thought about that too and also drew a blank. I also have Earwig, thanks to you. To me that looks like a simple statement of fact. But then, it seems, I'm "repeating these mistakes again" and I have a blocklog for copyvio and for sockpuppetry. So I await User:Kaerana's expert "copyvio avoiding" re-word with some anticipation. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:44, 1 December 2019 (UTC) You cannot copy text verbatim from a source. 11 words (which it is not) or 20 words (which it is), doesn't matter. Statement of fact, or something else, doesn't matter - you cannot copy text verbatim from a source. And you seriously cannot think of any way to write except to copy and paste from the source? That's a serious deficiency. Kaerana (talk) 20:54, 1 December 2019 (UTC) You really know how to work collaboratively, don't you Kaerana. I bet you're really popular amongst your fellow editors. Please show us your suggested reword here and we can discus it. Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 1 December 2019 (UTC) Martin - the guy's a troll. Unfortunately, we've a fair number of them. But we also have a great bunch of editors with whom collaboration can be both productive and fun. Leave Kaerana to the time sink, and to themselves. KJP1 (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2019 (UTC) I think it's pretty obvious this person is already an experienced editor, hiding under the guise of a new account. The question when then arises is "why?" I'm tempted to request an WP:SPI. But, as things stand, I really can't be bothered. If they carry on with this level of disruptive hectoring and pointless preaching with other editors, I guess they won't last very long. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 1 December 2019 (UTC) I've rewritten and re-inserted the section and it seems to pass Earwig. Robevans123 (talk) 02:12, 2 December 2019 (UTC) Kaerana, it would have been trivial for you to have provided a diff to the edit in question. Please be more considerate, in future. Geo Swan (talk) 04:16, 2 December 2019 (UTC) It was obvious to myself and to Martinevans123 which edit I was referring to. I find that restoring a copyright violation to an article is disruptive and unhelpful, while not providing a diff is not.Kaerana (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2019 (UTC) Amazing the abuse that one can receive for caring about and understanding copyright. The person previously blocked for sockpuppetry and repeated copyright violations is clearly very unhappy to have their shortcomings pointed out. Kaerana (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2019 (UTC) Kaerana, no-one else seems to think it was a copyright violation. It seems you made a mistake. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC) FYI, I have blocked Kaerana as a sock of community-banned WP:LTA/BKFIP. Favonian (talk) 11:07, 2 December 2019 (UTC) Many thanks. Seems the slightly bigger mistake was creating that new sockpuppet account. The phrase "disruptive and unhelpful" springs to mind. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:31, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

So, farewell then...

If it smells like a sock,
argues like a sock,
doesn't help (like a sock),
it probably is a sock.

E Jarvis Thribb (age 17½) (talk) 13:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

At least the poor chap isn't a "frightful quare". Martinevans123 (talk) 13:24, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Der Ring in Minden

... finally appeared today, - my opera experience of the year. Part of the hook, "... to listen to the music at the end", would be a good motto ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Nice one, Gerda! Well done. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

So, farewell then...

So, farewell then Edgar Sockman.
What a cool cat.
One of Wikipedia's finest Admins,
"More Socks than Faith"
That was your motto.
"You Won't Catch Me, you silly buggers"
Was another.
We all wonder, who'll be Next.

E Martin Thribb (age 57½) (talk) 14:00, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

I looked if I gave them precious more than once, but no, just once. Sometimes I wonder ... 3 for the rabbits and 2 for the bishs (intentionally), 2 for the pumpkins (less intentionally). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:21, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Bless you, Gerda. You're so charitable, you'll pay tribute to any old socks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:29, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Well, my favourite one used to say that his mother told him to change socks daily. He took the pic that I use for those who have just given up. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:06, 8 December 2019 (UTC) ... and he helped with the refs for SMS Scharnhorst on the Main page (but we have to ban such people). ... and he gave me the fiirst tree, and then another sock-lover gave me more, still on my talk, miss him as well. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:13, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Unsurprisingly, I feel ambivalent about socking. If folks feel the need to split up their editing by topics using different personas, I'm not sure that's necessarily wrong. Especially in a desperate attempt to keep track of their growing watchlist. Or even to adopt a silly name to add good content "anonymously". I don't see how that impact's "trust" in a big way. Why, some idiots even seem to try and deliberately choose the most ridiculous names possible, in an attempt to make it a bit obvious. "Multiple accounts" doesn't necessarily mean "abuse" to me. If people always just added good content and didn't get into fights about it, I'm not sure there'd be any problem. But of course they don't. On the other hand, actively pretending to be a different user, to stack votes, or avoid a block, or win an argument, is very wrong. And one expects an Administrator to set an example. I haven't really got the time or the inclination to go back through the thousands of edits made by Edgar and his socks. It looks like 99% of them were "good" ones. But if he ever blocked anyone for socking, I'm afraid he'd get no sympathy from me. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:25, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

well, say something on his talk page now? - I didn't. - repeat precious when it comes? - I don't know yet. For Br'er and Hillbilly and Kiefer and some more, all the time, but I really didn't know Edgar that well. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:48, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

see golden --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:15, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

And then my mind split open

Your earlier King Curtis link, its just, no words. Ive listened about 50 times today, though the figure is very basic, wow what they all do. Its certainly changed how I see electric blues. Ceoil (talk) 20:42, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it is pretty seismic, isn't it. There are few words, in fact... but what the hell. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2019 (UTC) ... it's only a bit electric

The saxist did a few thing towards the end that made me want to burn the house down. Of course I can'd do that because I'm married and Liz would be annoyed with having no house. Still though, wow. Ceoil (talk) 21:05, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Hey..... Americana of a different, more soothing, kind: Provided to YouTube by Rhino/Warner Records? Good old Robert. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Socks don't always come in pairs

Socks wear out eventually.	Darn socks
	Sniffing out socks is not only a thankless job, it's a stinky one. Especially for those of us who can't duck fast enough. It gets even worse when it's a drawer full and the feet they belong to is someone we once trusted. Kudos to all the sniffers! SAKE TO ME, BABY!!	Have a big ole vat of sake on me!

How very darning dare you!! I'll have you know that my socks were always meticulously paired. My dear erstwhile friend User:Knucklehead-McSpazatron sends his regards.... he really "put the G in gorgonzola." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 7 December 2019 (UTC) ....but you can't beat a bit a Saaki, can you!

Wiki Pedants Unite in Rage!!

Sad new's: [68]. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:48, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Not sad, appalling. What chaos will result? Greengrocers run amok! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:52, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I never did trust that Brexit-troublemaker Ted the Teeth. Am thinking of writing a strongly worded letter to St Albion's Parish News. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:59, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes. Good idea. Get Ian onto it! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 13:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi, you need to chill out.

Dude, on a talk page, you were freaking out! I was asking a question! Just chill man, chill. From the Jamal khshooki ( forgot his last name) talk page. New3400 (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Hmm. I asked you at Talk:Jamal Khashoggi: "Is this your idea of a joke?" That's not really "freaking out!", is it? Not only was Khashoggi assassinated and dismembered with a bone saw, but Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman has stated that he bears the responsibility. Sounds pretty certain, doesn't it? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:47, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

You cleared that up, to me it looked like it was serious, but if so, can you show me an article from the prince saying that? Thank you for clearing that up. New3400 (talk) 22:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Have you read that article? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes I have. It just said that he did not leave. To be honest, unless there is a photo of the body, I don't believe it. Sorry if I made you mad. New3400 (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

So you missed this:

"In September 2019, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman stated that he bears the responsibility for Khashoggi’s assassination by Saudi operatives “because it happened under my watch”, according to a preview of a PBS documentary. However, he denied having any prior knowledge of the plot.

Whatever you or I might personally prefer, in terms of photographic evidence, is neither here nor there, is it? What would you expect? A neat photo of his dismembered limbs and torso? His decapitated head perhaps? I'm not "mad", thanks, just a little amazed that you should have any real doubts. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Okay, I missed that. But, later on, it said that the Turkish government had videotapes of the killing, but we don't have it? It could be a coverup... (P.s yes it sounds like I'm a madman, but I'm not.) New3400 (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Wy do you delete facts on the page?.

Hi, I just add an important fact on Daltrey's solo career, which is a coved song by a major French Artist. Why do you keep on deleting it? It does not go against any wikipedia rules...It looks like a useless Tour de Force...Why is this? It's just facts....Documented and referenced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB00:3FC:8E00:90C8:6295:DB3E:C8B3 (talk) 14:17, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I've deleted it once. My edit summary was "unsourced and WP:WEIGHT". Perhaps you could explain why that fact is "important"? And where was the source for that fact, I must have missed it? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:26, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Looking at Take Me Home (Roger Daltrey song) it also seems that your claim may also be incorrect. It says "The song is written by Daltrey himself with Axel Bauer, Michel Eli and Nigel Hinton". There is no mention of it being a cover version. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Not sure what the original argument was about, but I've clarified the authorship question at "Take Me Home (Roger Daltrey song)" - the song was originally written in French as "Cargo", by Bauer and Eli. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:10, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the reversions, by myself and other editors, were over the lack of any source(s) and a question on the notability of that one song. Many thanks anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:09, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Another adage

Old saying in the news biz: "A journalist is a reporter without a job." – Sca (talk) 15:04, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Sightly less punchy, but quite appropriate for this Thursday perhaps: "It is part of the business of a newspaper to get news and to print it; it is part of the business of a politician to prevent certain news being printed. For this reason the politician often takes a newspaper into his confidence for the mere purpose of preventing the publication of the news he deems objectionable to his interests." -Alfred C. Harmsworth (1903) (... who probably wouldn't get far with Wikipedia today). Martinevans123 (talk) 18:39, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Alas, we in the U.S. haven't had the privilege of being exposed to the sagacity of Fleet Street.
One more old saying in the news biz: "A journalist is a man who's missed his calling." – Sca (talk) 18:55, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Shucks, and I thought that was a Wikipedia editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Old Sam said many quotable things, like: "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." – Sca (talk) 16:06, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Maurice Mounsdon

On 12 December 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Maurice Mounsdon, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Spencer^T•C 05:28, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks User:Spencer. Yes, his biography following WWII is not well covered in the news sources and obituaries. Perhaps someone with a subscription to The Times would be able to check that one. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:04, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

It’s that time of year!

Christmas tree worm, (Spirobranchus gigantic) Atsme Talk 📧 16:44, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
	Time To Spread A Little Happy Holiday Cheer!!
	I decorated a special kind of Christmas tree in the spirit of the season. What's especially nice about this digitized version: *it doesn't need water *won't catch fire *and batteries aren't required.
	Have a very Merry Christmas – Happy Hanukkah‼️ and a prosperous New Year!! 🍸🎁 🎉

Thanks, Atsme!! By Jove, I do believe... yes, it's the first of the season!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:02, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Covers

I don't think I'll ever come up with something as flawed but perfect as that JCC cover, but this later cover is how I first discovered Roy Harper. Oh my. Hits on about 50 levels, it slows down, speeds up, and is utterly desolate, far superior to the Cocteau Twins version. Ceoil (talk) 09:23, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, very talented guy. And of course, when an old Wikipedian leaves the project, you never know whether he's gone. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:27, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

His "a long time ago" is as evocative as Wordsworth's Lucy Poems. And re Cricketer, yes I know, its been a sad week. Ceoil (talk) 09:23, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

If I was to be honest, I think Roy H would have been deservedly huge, if he wasnt so boring to look at, which is something you cant say about BB, who was strikingly handsome. Ceoil (talk) 09:44, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Some serious drumming here[69]. Its very brief, but just amazing snare work. Pity indie is so four beat orientated. Ceoil (talk) 22:25, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Haha, yes. The amazing Bernard Purdie there. Curtis ever the showman. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Bass[70] is my main interest, the riff that guy was playing was flashy enough, but quite a dull and obvious. 4/10. Ceoil (talk) 22:50, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Jerry Jemmott a notable player, still going, with a huge list of credits in his 52-year career. High point for me was BB King's The Thrill Is Gone. He actually played on this and this. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

No offence, but not a fan of bb king and his indeterminant, cleanly produced solos. Like grove and rhythm, which is why to taken by with King Curtis, but bb was too flashy and played too many notes. Amway, speaking of classics - tune [71]. Ceoil (talk) 23:06, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

I actually got to shake the great man's hand after a gig at the Hammersmith Odeon, about 30 years ago. Probably one of the musical highlights of my life. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:20, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Impressed all the same Martin. My only claim to fame is spending months sharing overnight space in squats with the likes of the brother of the drummer from Ned's Atomic Dustbin. I did meet Stevie Wonder once, working as a concierge in NY. Was behind the desk with a Mexican dude that had almost no English. Wonder was there to meet Oliver Stone....the message sent up was "man in a wheelchair to meet mr Stones". What was the context of your meeting. Ceoil (talk)

I bought a ticket! After the show my mind was so blown that I decided I needed to get his autograph, as it was very unlikely I'd ever get to see him again. A very polite and unassuming man. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Karim Zeroual

You've been here long enough to know not to create an article at Karim Zeroual (dancer) when a redirect at Karim Zeroual exists. Either overwrite the redirect or don't bother doing anything. Your choice of disambiguation was also entirely inappropriate. GiantSnowman 15:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much for telling me. I guess you've been here long enough to never make mistakes. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:24, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

This is not a mistake a 12-year veteran should be making. This is something I would expect to see from a brand-new editor. GiantSnowman 16:10, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

And thanks for fixing it. Didn't seem to take you so long. Thanks also for making me feel like a 12-year old. You really know how to motivate someone. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:16, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

p.s. I think next time I'll "not bother doing anything". Martinevans123 (talk) 23:02, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Cheers

Damon Runyon's short story "Dancing Dan's Christmas" is a fun read if you have the time. Right from the start it extols the virtues of the hot Tom and Jerry This hot Tom and Jerry is an old-time drink that is once used by one and all in this country to celebrate Christmas with, and in fact it is once so popular that many people think Christmas is invented only to furnish an excuse for hot Tom and Jerry, although of course this is by no means true. No matter what concoction is your favorite to imbibe during this festive season I would like to toast you with it and to thank you for all your work here at the 'pedia this past year. Best wishes for your 2020 as well M. MarnetteD|Talk 22:29, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks, MarnetteD. I'm more of a Suffering Bastard man, myself. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:11, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks re: Heidegger

Thanks for doing good work on the Martin Heidegger article despite all of the terrible edits that have been happening over there recently. I've lost my patience with all that nonsense but I appreciate your persistence. CCS81 (talk) 06:47, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I find that article a bit of a battleground. It seems we have two very committed editors who have the agenda "Martin Heidegger = Famous Nazi" and who won't rest until the article makes that abundantly clear. Everything else seems to have taken second place. I also find it a bit nonsensical to fight over what's in the lead section, when there is so much room for improvement in the main body. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Missing

to 2020

missing Brian

Thank you for what you did for the Clara Schumann article! It's open for peer review, and FAC for Jauchzet, frohlocket!, DYK? We miss Brian who would have helped. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:57, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. I may try and have look. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:55, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

We miss now Peter Schreier and Harry Kupfer. (You could say Kupfer is ready for ITN.) - I changed the pic caption to 2020, - click if you want to see a familiar pic, listen to our music, get a preview of the calendar images and to music we are going to perform (Bach - Haydn - Schubert - Bernstein - Duruflé, to name just the biggies), - plan your vacation and come over ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:55, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me! I'll not book my flight just yet, though. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for seeing to the List of In Our Time programmes again

Thank you for seeing to the List of In Our Time programmes again, putting in the details for the programme on T.E. Lawrence. I see the article needs to be updated again - there has now been a programme on W.H. Auden. Are you a member of WikiProject BBC, or WikiProject Radio? In the past when this article needs updating, I have mentioned this on the talk page of WikiProject BBC, but I believe this project is believed to be semi-active. Vorbee (talk) 19:26, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

No worries. Yes, I found yesterday's Auden very good. I hadn't realised that "Funeral Blues" could be read as satire, especially after it's very poignant use in Four Weddings. [72] Martinevans123 (talk) 20:07, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Reports of Prince Philip's death

Are still greatly exaggerated. My crystal ball told me that it was inevitable that someone would do this. By the way, Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda!--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:42, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Diolch yn fawr, Ian! Judging by the recent edit summary from one of his more attentive medical staff, Philip must be getting a bit frustrated... "usual vandalism during hospital visits"! I'm sure he'd be more comfortable in that lovely cottage hospital down on the Isle of Dogs: [73]. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:54, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Swing

I am new to this too but the swing depends on which way the vote has turned out, I am only familiar with when the top two parties remain the top two parties in that vote if that makes sense. So like if Labour goes down by -5% and the Conservatives go up by 5% then it is a 5% swing, and if there is eg a -9.6% Conservative drop and a 5.4% Labour increase then the swing is 7.5% to Labour, because you use interpolation. If one party climbs from third to second place, I am not quite sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liamdaniel981 (talk • contribs) 15:47, 22 December 2019(UTC)

Ah, ok. So the relevant template used at Newport East (UK Parliament constituency) is, I think, this one: Template:Election box hold with party link, which in turn links to Swing (politics), where the example given is as follows:

Labor Party 51% (this year) less Labor Party 41% (four years ago) means the Labor Party saw a swing of 10 points (this implies in their favour and can also be published as +10 points)..

So I thought the swing this time was simply 15.8 - 12.1 = -3.7. Or is that too simple? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:04, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Liamdaniel981:?? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:34, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

No, that is just the percentage change in a party’s vote. You must have heard the commentators on election night when looking at a result saying something along the lines of “Labour up 6%, the Conservatives down 4%”, then they show you the swing? In that case it would be a swing of 5% to Labour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liamdaniel981 (talk • contribs) 13:20, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

So that example, via template advice page, is wrong? Note that the example is for a same-party hold, as occurred with Labour in Newport East. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:05, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

@Liamdaniel981:? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Okay I think you need to ask someone else about this, you’re bugging me now lol

Haha, I see. Perhaps I can also bug you about remembering to sign your posts? I've added at Talk:Newport East (UK Parliament constituency). Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:51, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

p.s. at Skipton and Ripon (UK Parliament constituency), why is that a swing of +3.0? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:58, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Hmmm

Just curious...what ever happened to Hafspajen? Do you know why he retired? ^Atsme _Talk 📧 17:44, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Atsme, good to see you! I'm really not sure. Towards the end, myself and HillBilly got a series of semi-coherent messages about somebody taking over his computer. We both thought he was getting a little paranoid. But it made The Trial sound like an episode of The Archers. I've heard nothing since, I'm afraid. I miss his wonderful pictures and sense of fun. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

St Pierre Hotel Gatehouse

Were you at St Pierre for your work’s Christmas outing. Newman isn’t kind about the Marriot’s corporate overhaul! Enjoy the holidays. KJP1 (talk) 10:56, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

In fact a wedding, this time! Enjoy also! Yeah well, you know Newman, not that fond of roulette tables and hot-tubs. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:27, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I tend to find weddings, after the actual wedding, get a bit dull, but then I'm a curmudgeonly old git. What a shame you couldn't have sloped off for an hour, say during the father of the bride's speech, shot 3 miles down the road to Caldicot, and got me a shot of Church Farmhouse. Never mind, shall just have to make another trip to the old country myself. Pip pip. KJP1 (talk) 16:55, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, maybe next time. See you there, if the weather holds out. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:01, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi

On 24 December 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Joseywales1961 (talk) 14:02, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. Do I need to take legal advice? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:42, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome, maybe you could return the compliment for RD nomination 30 December Propper GrechJoseywales1961 (talk) 10:33, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Hello Martinevans123: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 18:26, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Cheers!

Viggo Johansen: Happy Christmas (1891)

X

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

X

Frohe Weihnachten und

alles Gute zum neuen Jahr!

Wesołych Świąt i

Szczęśliwego nowego roku!

Linksmų Kalėdų ir

laimingų Naujųjų Metų!

– sca

Sca (talk) 19:10, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Christmas Greetings all

O come O come Emmanuel arr. Sarah MacDonald, Ely Cathedral Choir on YouTube Martinevans123 (talk) 23:21, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Moynes Court Gatehouse 2.jpg

The file File:Moynes Court Gatehouse 2.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unused

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mdaniels5757 (talk) 00:14, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Mdaniels5757 - Removed proposed deletion banner. Now very much in use, here and here. Happy Holidays! KJP1 (talk) 06:29, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

	Season's greetings!
	I hope this holiday season is festive and fulfilling and filled with love and kindness, and that 2020 will be safe, successful and rewarding...keep hope alive....Modernist (talk) 02:13, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks, Modernist. All best wishes for 2020. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:12, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Greetings

	~ Happy Holidays ~
	~ And a Happy New Year! Martinevans123 ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 09:35, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks, Mitch. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:12, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Would you take a look ...

DRP discussion on the Heidegger article here. I think it is worth one last attempt to get a mediated process on this and this could be it -----Snowded ^TALK 07:08, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Oh joy. Inevitable, I guess. I will try and make an input, although I see that User:VeryRarelyStable will not be participating until about a week from today. "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - some other German guy. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:10, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year Martinevans123!

Happy New Year!

Martinevans123,
Have a prosperous, productive and wonderful New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 30 December 2019 (UTC) p.s. it's not horn, it's "95-97% calcium carbonate crystals, which are stabilized by a protein matrix", but I guess you're fed up with folks telling you...

Took me a second to figure that out, but, for the record: Eggishorn

Ooh, very lofty! But I still think my version is better lol.

Neil Innes (9 December 1944 – 29 December 2019)

A wonderful entertainer and the original voice of the media: [74]. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:01, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

This is such sad news. So much wonderful music. I will just leave this in tribute. MarnetteD|Talk 23:07, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

An immense talent. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:18, 30 December 2019 (UTC).... of course, The Rutles all began really with the Bonzo's 1967 "Equestrian Statue": [75]

Neil on "sax" here, I think. .... and Hello, Mabel

Gwent County History

You'd never guess what I got for Christmas. KJP1 (talk) 10:50, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Haha, no. How lovely. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:55, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm jealous. I've only got Volume 4... To save KJP1 some typing there are some examples of refs in Gwent (county) (ref no. 3 defined in reflist) and in St John's Church, Abergavenny (ref no 9. embedded in text). Happy editing and a good new year. Robevans123 (talk) 12:00, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

I'd never thought of the Donald with blackface before... but yeah, Green Eyed Monster sounds about right! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:16, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Robevans123 - It is indeed a lovely collection. If you ever need a cite until, as I did, you bully your nearest and dearest into buying you the full set, just give me a shout. KJP1 (talk) 12:19, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you - will do! Robevans123 (talk) 13:22, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

The countdown

Martin, thank you for the work you do, and for all you’ve done over the years to build a quality encyclopedia. And a special thank you for helping us see the humor in it all!	2020!!
	Out with the old, in with the new!! I'll remember 2019 like it was yesterday! Remember, a New Year's resolution is something that goes in one year and out the other. Definition of a hangover: Wrath of Grapes. What kind of doctor fixes broken websites? A URLologist. 🎉🥂🍾🎊 Atsme Talk 📧 14:01, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks, Atsme!! Have a great time. Although I'm sure it's much easier to enjoy the fireworks from here, than it would be standing on the beach at Mallacoota, with nothing but the clothes you're stood up in, while your house burns down in those other fireworks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:15, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

... sorry to be such a "wet blanket", Sheila...