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Keeping an eye on stuff. Meanwhile, here is some music.[1]


ANI Help requestedEdit

Could you please give some assistance to this thread on ANI? It's going around and around and going nowhere. Full disclosure, I got your name from the ANI history as you were the last admin to edit. - NeutralhomerTalk • 14:42 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you!Edit

Truly appreciate your closing the move request on one of our project essays. Curious as to whether you did not close the other one because you were not aware of it, or if you chose not to as closure by the same admin would be inappropriate? SusunW (talk) 13:39, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

@SusunW: I haven't seen the other one, and I only noticed this one because of the ANI thread about Netaholic. If it's not too much bother, I might leave that for another admin to close, simply because nobody can then accuse me of "bias towards WiR". On a more personal note, I have long admired the general working ethic and camaraderie that goes on at Women in Red, even if biographies of women aren't my main area of expertise, and I am quite disappointed to see these sort of argumentative chaps turning up. I do not want a repeat of this. :-( Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation Ritchie. I totally understand and am glad that this is being discussed, though I note the lack of women participating. The innocence claimed of only "AfD'd two articles in two days" is looking to be an effective smokescreen for the rest of the disruptive behavior that resulted, which is the larger issue, IMO. SusunW (talk) 14:15, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
@SusunW: Although I've opposed a topic ban for deletion, I have been reminded of an earlier discussion (the only other time I have interacted with Netoholic) where I basically threw my hands up and said, "jeez, is this vitally important, I'm off to the pub for a pint of Curious IPA to get a clear head". Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:27, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
That about sums up the basic difference in the way this appears to you/me (not so bold as to say men/women): It's a big deal, but let's just go have a beer and consider it/discuss it vs. It's a big deal and I will not be interacting further as it feels hostile. (I also find this "editors who meet up face to face tend not to be aggressive to one another online" telling. Why on earth would one be aggressive to someone they do not know online or offline? That makes zero sense to me.) Just my 2 cents. SusunW (talk) 16:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
"It's a big deal, but let's just go have a beer and consider it/discuss it" In my case, it was more "I have no idea why you think this is so urgent I need to drop everything and deal with it now, so I'm logging off and doing something else for a bit before I get a sore head." Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
I'm piling on with the thanks, Ritchie, for closing the move request and for your kind note regarding my rationale as to why the move should not occur. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:09, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
   — Amakuru (talk) 15:13, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

I think this whole farce will be an endearing subject of conversation at the next London meetup, but for now I'm just putting it to one side and getting on with innocuous things like a new project to improve our coverage of the Victoria line (just for you, Amakuru :-D). One thing I've noticed is that editors who meet up face to face tend not to be aggressive to one another online, and while I appreciate sitting in a pub with 19 geeks wearing anoraks (broadly construed) isn't everyone's cup of tea, it does bring with it some advantages. In particular, Whispyhistory has been championed as a content creator par excellence, not least by Philafrenzy and Edwardx, and the conversations the four of us have at Pendrel's Oak on a regular basis mean we're all interested in what each other is doing and tend to look out for each other's articles, working together as a team. I'm happy to talk a bit more about my personal life and situation in the pub, which I'm not prepared to do on-wiki, and that means they've got more of a rounded idea what I'm interested in and how I work. Has Jesswade88 ever been to one of the London meetups? I've got a feeling she's met Andrew Davidson but I can't be certain of that, and she does seem to work in relative isolation on-wiki. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:58, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

I think Edwardx and Whispyhistory already knew the correct way to treat people, Ritchie. From my experience they are the same in person as online and have not been civilised by contact with other editors, they were already civilised. Hopefully their good behaviour will rub off on the rest of us. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:36, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
You are too kind, Philafrenzy. I simply try to act in accordance with the golden rule. Almost all of the credit for mentoring Whispyhistory belongs to you. I may have provided a little moral support, but the hard graft has been yours. Nonetheless, it pleases me greatly that this effort has paid off so handsomely, rather more alas than I can say for much of my editathon activity. Edwardx (talk) 23:48, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
You don't know what seeds you have sown and as far as mentoring is concerned, was it not you who started me doing DYKs in the first place? Now Whispyhistory has their own apprentices. They grow up so fast. Philafrenzy (talk) 00:00, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, Philafrenzy. Nature shows us that seeds can lie dormant for years, so one lives in hope. And it was Andrew Davidson who started me on DYKs. Perhaps it goes all the way back to Bernard of Chartres. Edwardx (talk) 11:36, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Jess Wade lecturing on academic notability at Imperial College
Edwardx, Philafrenzy, Ritchie333...and others I know (many now and I believe some from countries far away)... I am touched. Definitely not grown up yet. I am reading the above and feeling emotional. Whispyhistory (talk) 05:19, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I'm only a fairly recent attendee at the Meetup but can concur with the above. We shouldn't be treating each other any different online from how we do in person, but it's easily done. You forget there's another human being at the end of the line. It's been a pleasure to get to know the people mentioned above, and it always raises a smile when I see their names on wiki, such as when Ritchie did a GA review and Whispyhistory reviewed the subsequent DYK. (Which reminds me, I should have a look at Kensington Olympia for you... Will try to find the time this weekend!) Thanks, and keep up the good work.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I have indeed attended several events with Jess Wade and she is typically an organiser or speaker. In the picture (right), which I took a few weeks ago, she is lecturing students and faculty about the guideline for academic notability on Wikipedia. She has written hundreds of such articles now and so may reasonably be considered an expert on the matter. She's doing fine and so attempts to advise her risk being seen as mansplaining. The people who seem most out of their depth and in need of assistance are the others mixed up in this, including Netholic, Rama and Lancewiggs. It seems especially outrageous that the latter should have been indeffed so peremptorily, when others seem to have licence to be as rude as they like, but so it goes. A farce is a good way of describing it because when I tell ordinary folk that such articles might be deleted, they are incredulous – they don't understand what we are playing at. Andrew D. (talk) 18:31, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
This is why I have mentioned WP:REALWORLD in several discussions recently, drawing particular attention to "Those outside readers, organizations and individuals will also read your words in the context of generally understood meanings, not Wikipedia-specific definitions. Appeal to Wikipedia rules and processes will not save you from misunderstandings or real-world consequences." I do plenty of things that have nothing to do with WP, and most people are at best indifferent about it, and at worst cynical because they know somebody whose edit was reverted or whose article was deleted. It's pretty much what drives my entire working process here and what makes me tick. I am not really that familiar with Dr Wade's work other than the odd AfD rescue; I don't mind discussing improvements to specific articles, such as the work I did on Abbie Hutty and its related DYK. But as I said over on ANI, we need a collaborative environment to make that happen, not have people coming along with a 24 inch clipboard detailing exactly what policies you violated and what the appropriate punishments will be. I am not happy about Lance's block, as you can probably tell; it doesn't take much effort to do a quick search on the name and discover that simply because the account has only a few edits, does not mean their opinion is not valid. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:49, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
I'll also save the drama chat for the meet up. We can discuss it over a Christmas ale. That Victoria line project sounds interesting though. I might muck in and try to do one or two of them: I need a new project and had in mind to do some precolonial Rwanda stuff, but the sources I have are incredibly terse and difficult to construct decent articles from in the time I have available. Stations can be a quick win therefore. I was looking at Brixton just now and saw the reference to the old East Brixton station. That was a crazy looking thing. Sort of like a portacabin on stilts...  — Amakuru (talk) 21:19, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Amakuru What sources do you have for pre-colonial Rwanda? Do you have access to Senate House Library or UCL Library? Philafrenzy (talk) 12:46, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
@Philafrenzy: these are some of the titles I own:
  • David Newbury (2009). The Land beyond the Mists: Essays on Identity and Authority in Precolonial Congo and Rwanda. Ohio University Press.
  • Jan Vansina (2005). Antecedents to Modern Rwanda: The Nyiginya Kingdom. James Currey.
  • Aimable Twagilimana (2007). Historical Dictionary of Rwanda. Scarecrow Press.
  • Catharine Newbury (1988). The Cohesion of Oppression: Clientship and Ethnicity in Rwanda, 1860-1960. Columbia University Press.
I also have excerpts from some others, such as "Defeat is the only Bad News" by Alison des Forges and "Rwanda Before the Genocide" by JJ Carney which I accessed by visiting the British Library. I don't have access to either of those other libraries you mention, as far as I know. Is it possible for an outsider to gain access? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 11:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I have some African history lurking somewhere I know. I will check. Yes I know a back door. You will need to bribe me with tea at the next meetup to find out. I assume that you have signed up for Jstor with the Wikipedia Library? Philafrenzy (talk) 14:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I have all of these, apart from Vol. 2 for some reason, plus the UNESCO General History of Africa is available as a free CCBYSA download. Not sure how current it is, or indeed if it was subject to political interference. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:10, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Kensington (Olympia) stationEdit

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Kensington (Olympia) station you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria.   This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Amakuru -- Amakuru (talk) 11:00, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

New message from Winged Blades of GodricEdit

Hello, Ritchie333. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/West Pier Trust.
Message added 12:22, 4 May 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

WBGconverse 12:22, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Administrator account security (Correction to Arbcom 2019 special circular)Edit

ArbCom would like to apologise and correct our previous mass message in light of the response from the community.

Since November 2018, six administrator accounts have been compromised and temporarily desysopped. In an effort to help improve account security, our intention was to remind administrators of existing policies on account security — that they are required to "have strong passwords and follow appropriate personal security practices." We have updated our procedures to ensure that we enforce these policies more strictly in the future. The policies themselves have not changed. In particular, two-factor authentication remains an optional means of adding extra security to your account. The choice not to enable 2FA will not be considered when deciding to restore sysop privileges to administrator accounts that were compromised.

We are sorry for the wording of our previous message, which did not accurately convey this, and deeply regret the tone in which it was delivered.

For the Arbitration Committee, -Cameron11598 21:04, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 10Edit

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Westway (London), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hackney (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:09, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Kensington (Olympia) stationEdit

The article Kensington (Olympia) station you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:Kensington (Olympia) station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Amakuru -- Amakuru (talk) 14:22, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Queen Elizabeth II (painting)Edit

 On 12 May 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Queen Elizabeth II (painting), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in a 2016 portrait, the Queen is depicted with someone else's bust? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Queen Elizabeth II (painting). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Queen Elizabeth II (painting)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:03, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

bizarre editsEdit

Hi... I noticed this article has been having bizarre edits. Can you advise...I usually undo but looks messy. Whispyhistory (talk) 14:47, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@Whispyhistory: I reverted back to your version - people editing without any summaries is unhelpful as you have to a brief forensic examination and guess what they were trying to do. Sitush and Vanamonde93 are more experienced with Indian history than I am, and I think both of them have had serious battle scars from disruptive editors; in particular, the India / Pakistan dispute, and related POV pushing from that, is something I prefer to run full speed away from in the other direction and find some pictures of kittens to look at. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks..I'll keep them in mind. Whispyhistory (talk) 15:12, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
"Battle scars" is about right...I've been watching that article for a while; it tends to attract that sort of tinkering. On some occasions it's related to tweaking descriptions of his ideology to match perceptions of his supporters (or detractors); sometimes it's seemingly aimless, as in this latest set of edits. I am of the opinion that the page needs indefinite semi-protection, but other admins have disagreed with me at RFPP about that, IIRC, so I haven't done anything further about it. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:20, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you @Vanamonde93:...I may look at it in more detail "one day". Whispyhistory (talk) 15:26, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Dick SmithEdit

Don't be a Dick

This is an odd one that I came across on prod patrol. The article has been around for ages and, on the face of it, the person sounds quite notable. But I'm not finding much in the way of sources so maybe it's a hoax. Anyway, I'm not touching it because it's not really my scene and it has a BLPPROD on it. Please check it out, if you would. Andrew D. (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

I've done a quick search for sources and can't find anything, which is bizarre. If this isn't a hoax, I would expect at least one interview with a guitar magazine to come up in a search, but absolutely nothing comes up. I'm tempted to zap it per WP:G3, but to be sure, leave the BLP PROD on. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:22, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
... actually, played in the Hampton Grease Band, sideman for Aretha, Muscle Shoals sessions and won three Emmys and there's no sources? Tommy Tedesco he ain't. Deleted per G3. Shout out to Finnusertop for noticing. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:28, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Ok, but what do you make of this video which I found after posting the above? Is that a hoax too or what? Just curious... Andrew D. (talk) 19:49, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
It's a truly bizarre cut and paste of videos interspersed with shots of Mr Smith, without proving he had anything to do with the claims specified. Google "Richard Smith Emmy" and note the complete and utter absence of any reliable, independent, third party sources. I'll get a second opinion off Iridescent and will happily eat a family-sized helping of humble pie if I've called this incorrectly, but I'm not seeing the evidence. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:56, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I was curious about this and from looking around I think he probably is a real person. I'm tempted to believe the role in Ray (film) is genuine as well as playing with Earth Wind & Fire, and possibly even the backing guitar and albums etc. See [2] (which has wording suspiciously similar to the article) as well as [3][4]. The Emmys thing seems a stretch though, as you say there's no record, unless someone mixed him up with Dick Smith, the makeup artist.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:22, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Definitely a real person; the reason you're getting few hits on "Dick Smith" is because he's now going under the name "Richard Alan Smith". Here's his current website. A Google search on "richard alan smith" guitarist brings up assorted videos of him doing his thing. Whether he warrants a bio is another matter, as while there are a fair few local radio spots and the like there doesn't seem to be anything constituting significant coverage. ‑ Iridescent 21:22, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
So why do I get no independent reliable sources when I search for "Richard Alan Smith EWF"? As you say, there seems to be a real guy who is a guitarist and teacher, but without evidence linking him to the information in that biography, I think it has to remain deleted. It would have done per BLP PROD anyway. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:27, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
He's listed on the lineup history on the official EWF website, who presumably know. It looks like he was a long-term session man rather than a full official member, as he's under "Many talented musicians have performed with Earth, Wind & Fire" rather than the main lineup. ‑ Iridescent 21:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
@Iridescent: you've pretty much found the same pages as I found above   - I guess that probably is all there is out there. I tried quite hard to prize him out of the Emmys website but without success. Either he's puffing himself up, or someone mixed him up with the makeup guy. Doesn't seem to meet WP:GNG on this evidence anyway.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:37, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
There's more of him here. I've checked the history of all the awards he says he's won, but can't find anything (that doesn't necessarily prove anything if he's working as part of a team composing movie scores, but I'd expect to find something). Since there doesn't seem to be any independent coverage, he doesn't meet GNG regardless. ‑ Iridescent 21:43, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Mr Smith himself, aka User:Monkeyfingers, is the original author of the article - here he is complaining about its first deletion in 2011. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:11, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Check this out, pleaseEdit

Series of reverts: it appears I may have reverted IP and they decided to retaliate by targeting a series of my edits right down the line. I'm fixing the ones that need fixing but please look into this.

diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff

Thanks in advance, Atsme Talk 📧 20:40, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

I've dropped them a note. If they kick up a fuss, I'll block 'em. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:55, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Thx, Ritchie...Atsme Talk 📧 21:10, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
To paraphrase "Up The Junction" ... "I'll block 'em for recklessness, but blocking's not my business" Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:51, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
The IP returned and reverted all the edits in troll-like behavior. I'm to the point that I'm beyond caring anymore. Atsme Talk 📧 03:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) New IP blocked, Crayfish semi'd for a week; clearly either an intent to harass, or complete disregard for consensus building. But don't call them a vandal, please, Atsme; there's many types of disruptive editors who are not vandals. It undermines our ability to deal with them, too, because they can now play the victim and complain that they were wrongly accused of vandalism. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:16, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Ok, but please know that I waited until the last few reverts, and ran out of reasons for why I had to revert. By then, it was rather obvious they vandalized the articles and targeted my edits to harass and I have an idea that it was probably the result of my work in NPP or AfC. Thank you for hopefully resolving the issue, Vanamonde. Atsme Talk 📧 13:03, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh, wait...I just realized there are 2 IPs geolocating to the same area - and Vanamonde93 does your block cover both? Atsme Talk 📧 13:54, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

It looks like a standard rotating IP for a home service provider, so the previous IP is probably located to someone else, so there's no need to block it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:12, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion of MCG Heatlh PageEdit

Could we move the page to a draftspace at the very least so that I can work on improving the page? I believe their system of measuring care is useful to have a page on. Ooooboy1090 (talk) 21:25, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

While I'm normally amenable to restoring pages to userspace, we have had huge problems with the past with articles on medicine and health related companies. In particular, Wikipedia has a whole set of policies related sources applicable to medicine (because while people shouldn't consult Wikipedia over a doctor, people expect what they read about to be true and reflect mainstream science). I would prefer to get a brief consensus from the various admins who hang out on my talk page first before putting this in userspace. (Does anybody else miss Jytdog?) Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:53, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
I know what you mean. What if I did a stub on the fact they produce evidence based clinical guidelines that a lot of health plans rely on. That would seem to help clarify the "not relying on Wikipedia" -- and of course, happy to wait till others weigh in. Ooooboy1090 (talk) 19:47, 17 May 2019 (UTC)


not a valid CSD {{db|1=Hello. I have a problem. I have renamed the article '''AeroCóndor''', which was misnamed, to '''Aerocondor Colombia''' because this is how the company is known worldwide. Now the linking with the other languages ​​does not work. I hope that if the article '''AeroCóndor''' is deleted, the correct link will be possible. Many thanks for the help. Greetings.}}

Some explanation? why not? the problem continues and I do not know what to do! please I need help. Thank you EBAQ (talk) 11:48, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Reformatted to remove the transcluded deletion nomination and resolved the issue on Wikidata. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:55, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

You've got mailEdit

Hello, Ritchie333. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

-A lainsane (Channel 2) 14:43, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

@A lad insane: (good album, that) Please accept my apologies, I just gone off-wiki shortly before you sent this and then I was out for most of the weekend eating, drinking, being merry and chatting about transport and Fairport Convention with Redrose64 over beer and coffee. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:24, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
No problem. Thanks for cleaning that up, and I hope you had a splendid weekend! -A lainsane (Channel 2) 17:26, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.18Edit

Hello Ritchie333,

WMF at work on NPP Improvements

Niharika Kohli, a product manager for the growth team, announced that work is underway in implementing improvements to New Page Patrol as part of the 2019 Community Wishlist and suggests all who are interested watch the project page on meta. Two requested improvements have already been completed. These are:

  • Allow filtering by no citations in page curation
  • Not having CSD and PRODs automatically marked as reviewed, reflecting current consensus among reviewers and current Twinkle functionality.
Reliable Sources for NPP

Rosguill has been compiling a list of reliable sources across countries and industries that can be used by new page patrollers to help judge whether an article topic is notable or not. At this point further discussion is needed about if and how this list should be used. Please consider joining the discussion about how this potentially valuable resource should be developed and used.

Backlog drive coming soon

Look for information on the an upcoming backlog drive in our next newsletter. If you'd like to help plan this drive, join in the discussion on the New Page Patrol talk page.

Discussions of interest

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 7242 Low – 2393 High – 7250

Stay up to date with even more news – subscribe to The Signpost.
Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings.
Delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of DannyS712 (talk) at 19:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Melissa M. BrownEdit

Hi. (If you respond back, can you ping me?) I have done some changes to Draft:Melissa M. Brown (swimmer). The article is a bit better, but looking around, I would be iffy on her notability. It isn't immediately clear to me based on a few Google searches but I am also not as familiar with media in Atlanta so there could be sources I cannot see. Article is not in great shape, but still better. If the original contributor can come in and add more sources, that would also be great. :) --LauraHale (talk) 09:17, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

@LauraHale: Thanks for taking a look. I'm not sure the original author will be back; what tends to happen is that they create a draft, it gets reviewed months later and declined, by which time they've long given up, leading to a G13 deletion further down the line. Aside from NCSA Sports, I didn't recognise the sources, and she seems relatively young and won't have an extensively documented career, such as olympic performances. I didn't have a clue what to do with it, other than I know articles like this are your sort of speciality. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:10, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
The notability issue is what would prevent me from working on it more. It just feels like the only way it would survive a deletion nomination would be if people with an investment in protecting women's sport articles showed up and articles in support of it from the margins of notability. :/ (My writing is horrible in that I tend to write explicitly to show notability on those type of articles on the margins. It makes articles really ugly and I know the style guide doesn't like this but not many other strategies that are as effective as source bombing to show notability.) Anyway, if I was voting on it, it would be to move to userspace as WP:TOOSOON. If you find another article that needs work similar to this, let me know and I can take a look. This one just needs someone who knows who better to make notability more clear. :( --LauraHale (talk) 11:30, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Blanked page nom'd for WP:G12Edit

Hi Ritchie333. I nominated a user's sandbox (User:SomuSaha/sandbox) for speedy deletion as G12 because it contained copyrighted text. The user just blanked the page, but I don't know if that's good enough. Are there rules about how and when copyrighted text needs to be revel'd out of existence? --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 14:33, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

@Drm310: If the user has blanked the page, that means it can be deleted per WP:G7, which addresses that concern automatically. I've done that for you. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:20, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Nan WintonEdit

 On 21 May 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Nan Winton, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

Stephen 23:16, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Sheetala AsthamiEdit

You declined the G5 on the article because it has sources and suggested PROD/AFD. There's no mention in WP:G5 of sourcing, and discussing the article is the antithesis of WP:DENY. Is sourcing now a free pass for block evasion? Cabayi (talk) 14:14, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

There is a lively discussion on Iridescent's talk page right now, not to mention a previous thread I started, but the general gist of WP:G5 is that articles creating by block-evading users may be deleted, not must be deleted. Given a quick news search returns many hits on Sheetala Asthami, it seems counter-productive to throw out the work already started. Obviously, if you disagree that the festival is notable, you are within your rights to take the article to PROD or AfD. Regarding WP:DENY, I don't think the article looks like vandalism or trolling. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:22, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
As I said, discussing it is the opposite of denying recognition. Thanks for the answer, even if we'll continue to disagree. Cabayi (talk) 14:29, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
OK, I've read enough of the discussion to see that what I see as a bright-line rule others have reasoned arguments to see as more fuzzy. I guess my role in the SPI process is to keep tagging G5s and grow a thicker skin when someone won't uphold the block sees it differently. Cheers, Cabayi (talk) 14:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Sometimes things are a tricky balance - the best thing to do is understand that things are never black and white and what to do depends on the circumstances. It's the core tenet of WP:IAR, after all. I could argue that by letting the article stand, it won't be recreated again and again by a sockfarm under slightly different titles which is more disruptive. For example, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Johngalea24/Archive (although in that example everybody was right to delete the article). In this specific instance, this seems to be a relatively minor incident of somebody trying to create autobiographies, failing to do, then moving onto other things they know about. It sounds more WP:COMPETENCE than genuine disruption, though I know there are people like TonyBallioni who do a lot of subtle behind the scenes work to keep serial sockfarms at bay (which is WP:DENY). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:52, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
(edit conflict) FWIW, I tend to take a harder line on it than Ritchie, but I understand his point of view. On Indian stuff, depending on the sockmaster there’s an argument to delete because they may be misrepresenting the sources. As an analogy, there’s an Italian neo-fascist LTA who creates articles on all sorts of notable Italian things that falls into my “nuke on sight” category because, well, you have no clue if the offline sources actually say what he says they do, or if he’s misrepresenting them because he thinks Italians are the master race, so who cares about the details? You have a lot of crap like that on the Indian caste socks. All depends on the sockmaster, but I don’t think PROD would hurt in this specific case. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:08, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
The first thing I do when evaluating speedies is a Google News search. I pretty much ignore what's in the article until I've done my own research - after all, if the article contains unsourced speculation, it can be replaced by sourced facts, if it contains puffery, it can be removed, and if it contains copyvios, they can be revdeleted. In this case, it's a fairly small and innocuous stub that has potential expansion, so my gut feeling is somebody (Winged Blades of Godric?) might be able to do something with it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:18, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
I think this is a good decline (and I would decline a PROD, too). This is a quasi-major festival of religious significance over here and I am seeing non-trivial coverage in Bengali as well as Hindi sources. An often-quick way in these cases is to check out the referencing over the local-language wikis. The article leads me to this Yahoo news-piece and a government site which describes it as a major festival of a state-capital. WBGconverse 15:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Judith KerrEdit

 On 23 May 2019, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Judith Kerr, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

Ad Orientem (talk) 18:05, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

The Inner Mounting Flame?Edit

"Reviewing the album for JazzTimes in 1998, Bill Milkwowski said: "More ethereal pieces like "The Dance of Maya", with its odd time signatures and arpeggios ... helped to create a kind of mystique about the Mahavishnu Orchestra that was wholly unprecedented for its time." But any idea what they are? Paste suggests that Cobham plays a "bluesy 10/8 drum pattern." But there are at least two in that track (I think): [5] Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I haven't got a clue, but King Crimson are early pioneers in odd time signatures, such as the two guitars going out of sync and then back in again on Discipline's "Frame by Frame". 10/8 is not particularly odd. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:52, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh well. Yes, I thought that too. And not as odd as the 18/8 of "Birds of Fire", I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
It's been a day for things being not so strong and stable. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:01, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Box stalls in a barn or stable should be of sturdy construction and cleaned daily
Ah yes, strong and stable.... for some reason reminds me of Old Ned. Bring on the prancing show ponies.... Martinevans123 (talk) 11:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
"Anyone fancy a pint?" ... or maybe two

Request For an EXTREMELY Little-Known Rock Album to Have CreationEdit

Good evening Ritchie333,

Hundreds of years ago, a punk rock ensemble group named Subject to Change consisting of leading vocalist Cree Summer (yes the voice behind Susie Carmichael in Rugrats and Elmyra Duff in Tiny Toon Adventures/Pinky Elmyra and the Brain) bassist Oneida Jones keyboardist Carl Young and guitarist Greg Bell had released an album titled Womb Amnesia. Sadly, this was the only one they had premiered.

Unlike Street Faerie the solo album she premiered 20 summers ago on April 20, 1999 none of the fourteen songs were released as singles. Additionally the full player clocks at 66 plus minutes due to the penultimate track Only Color running at 10 minutes and six seconds long.

Like I said to L239D back in January "Even though it is too little to have its own page it will happen one day." Whatever you do please please PLEASE do not deny this request.

Lights out, (talk) 02:29, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

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