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Daniell cell: removal of WP:REFSPAMEdit

Thanks for your edit summary explaining that if I remove WP:REFSPAM, I'm also supposed to remove statements which would otherwise remain unsourced. I'll go through my recent edits in this matter and see whether it happened elsewhere, too; I think it might have. I just wanted to let you know, on the off chance that you might want to check my recent edits yourself, that I'm perfectly okay with that. IpseCustos (talk) 10:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm not saying you should remove absolutely everything this editor has added, but that passage was clearly connected with the FRINGE claims that people at the COIN discussion were concerned with. If the material was already in the article before the cite was added, I would leave it in, even if unsourced, unless there is reason to think it is suspicious. SpinningSpark 10:43, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Ancient systems of elementsEdit

Hello, Spinningspark,

I thought I'd let you know that your draft has been deleted in case you were interested in continuing your work on it. I hope you are well! Liz Read! Talk! 00:25, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Liz. I'm happy to leave it dead for now. It was basically storage for inappropriate material moved out of another article. There may be more to add in the future, but I'm not inclined to find better homes for it in mainspace, especially the uncited stuff, and apparently neither were any of the other editors on the page involved. SpinningSpark 06:40, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
I understand, I'm just kind of stickler for informing page creators when their pages are deleted. You are different because as an admin, you can look at your Deleted Contributions but ordinary editors might not even realize their drafts or main space articles have been deleted if they don't receive a notice of some kind. FireflyBot will notify draft editors 5 months after the page has last been edited but, unfortunately, it will only post this notice once...if you get the bot notice, edit the draft and it goes another 5 or 6 months with no further activity, you won't get a second notice from FireflyBot. One and done. Liz Read! Talk! 05:50, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

June 2022Edit

  Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, discussion pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Even making spelling and grammatical corrections in others' comments is generally frowned upon, as it tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Among Us for POTUS (talkcontribs) 19:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

@Among Us for POTUS: What the hell are you talking about? Your revert of my contribution did not restore anyone elses comment, nor did I remove any in my edit. Please take your templated warning and stick it up your own talk page where it belongs for removing my contribution. SpinningSpark 19:24, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't read the diff correctly. You can put the contribution back and ignore this warning, but please be civil. Among Us for POTUS (talk) 19:27, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
@Among Us for POTUS: I said please. That's as civil as you are going to get over this. You are the one who removed another user's comment so it is quite appropriate to template yourself, where additionally it would not be contrary to this essay. SpinningSpark 19:37, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
I did not realize you're a regular editor and I did not act in bad faith, as that specific essay mentions. Also, essays are not policies. This does not deserve such a long argument. Among Us for POTUS (talk) 19:56, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
If you make a mistake like that you should restore it yourself. But you are clearly not watching pages you edit, otherwise you would have noticed that another editor has already reverted you. SpinningSpark 19:50, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
I was going to restore it once you replied to this. And, no, I do not follow every page I edit unless it's persistent vandalism. Nobody told me that I should. Among Us for POTUS (talk) 19:58, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

a quick questionEdit

hey buddy, its me again..

real quick, im just wondering how people have the topics on their talk page i guess you might say "hidden".. im on a mobile device and when i view certain users talk pages, i dont see any talk topics until i select "read as wiki page".. then they all appear in expanded format. here is a link as an example of what i mean: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doniago

thanks in advance, and sorry to bug you as always. Snarevox (talk) 17:20, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

In the case of Doniago's page, it appears to be due to some CSS code inserted at the top of the page. No idea whether that is an intentional effect or just a side-effect of the code doing something else. If Doniago is using desktop view they may not even have noticed. You'll have to ask the user concerned. SpinningSpark 08:16, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
thank you, i appreciate the reply. one more thing has really been bugging me and i promise ive been trying to find this answer now for almost 2 weeks as i really wanted to avoid asking you another question so soon..
my question is, articles for television shows, when you select "list of episodes" the target page has an episode table in the "episodes" section, and alot of times the episode titles in those episode tables link to a separate corresponding article for each episode..
why do some shows have a separate article for every individual episode (ie.. seinfeld and the office (the usa version)) while other shows only have separate articles for some of their episodes (ie.. the cosby show), and yet other shows still, dont have separate articles for any of their episodes (ie.. two and a half men). the episode list page for this last category of shows just has an episode table where the episode titles dont link to anything because separate articles for these episodes do not exist for whatever reason.
im trying to figure out what determines why some shows have a separate article for every episode, and some shows only have separate articles for some episodes, and some shows dont have separate articles for any episodes.
also, if i want to craft a link to an internal wikipedia page, im aware that the syntax for my link needs to be capitalized and spelled exactly the same as the title at the top of the target page, my problem is, for example, the title at the top of the seinfeld shows page is "Seinfeld", but it is italicized. do i need to include those italics in the syntax of my link in order for it to function properly, or is correct spelling and capitalization enough?
im sorry if this is too long, or stupid, or if any part of it doesnt make sense. i really do attempt to google these things prior to bugging you, but i cant ever seem to find exactly what im looking for. sometimes i get lost in wikipedia help pages or trying to articulate something to google that only a human with actual experience is truly going to understand and hopefully have an answer to.
i hope this finds you well. have a good night.
p.s. here are links to the episode list pages for the shows i used in my examples to make it easier for you if you would like to see the differences i am referring to.
seinfeld (the episode section on this page has every episode title linked to a separate article): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Seinfeld_episodes
the office (every episode title is linked to a separate article, just like seinfeld): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Office_(American_TV_series)_episodes
the cosby show (only some episode titles link to separate articles for this show): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Cosby_Show_episodes
two and a half men (none of the episode titles link to separate articles here): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Two_and_a_Half_Men_episodes
the end. Snarevox (talk) 04:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
  • Whether or not TV series get individual articles for episodes is primarily decided by WP:Notability. That is, that specific episode must be demonstrated to be notable by being discussed in reliable sources. There is some good advice at Wikipedia:Notability (television)#Television episodes. Lack of an episode article does not necessarily mean it is not notable. It might just mean that no one has got round to writing the page yet.
  • On italics, no, you should not put italic markup in links, that will cause them not to work. The real article title (as seen by the Wikimedia software) does not include any typeface decorations such as italics, bolding or point size and it is, in fact, impossible to put these in because of the way the software is built. The way italics are displayed is by changing the rendered text in your browser, usually through the use of the template {{Italic title}} but there are others, such as ship names which are done via the ship infobox. See HMS Belfast for instance.
If you need the link to show the correct italicisation you should put the italics outside the square brackets. For instance ''[[Seinfeld]]'' renders as Seinfeld whereas [[''Seinfeld'']] renders as the redlink ''Seinfeld''. If you want only part of the link italicised you need to use a pipe. [[HMS Belfast|HMS ''Belfast'']] renders as HMS Belfast. SpinningSpark 13:31, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
thank you for taking the time to help me out, i really do appreciate your patience. Snarevox (talk) 06:48, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

hi there,

i noticed you archived your old talk page, im assuming you did this because it was relatively full. how does one accomplish such a thing? it looks like you just added "/archive" to the url, but i have no idea how its done.

also, i have a quick question regarding redundancy. on the following page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.N.L.V._(group) there was a link in the discography section on the 4th item "uptown 4 life".. when i clicked the link it just refreshed the page and a little box popped up at the bottom of my screen saying "redircted from uptown 4 life"..

i felt as though this was rather redundant, so i edited it and removed the link brackets, leaving the album title. then i got curious, wondering to myself, does this page i was redirected from really exist if i cant even visit the link for it?

so i used the wikipedia search box and entered the text for the removed link "uptown 4 life", this brought me to the following disambiguation page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNLV_(disambiguation)

my question is, how did the link i removed know to redirect me back to the main article, and why did my search for the text for that link bring me to the disambiguation page? ive done some html coding in the past and i feel like the answer involves keywords inserted into like a meta tag or something, but im really not sure. any advice would be great.

lastly, was i wrong to delete the redundant link from the main article? i cant fathom any reason a page needs to contain a link that just redirects back to itself.

im sure you have more important things to do besides replying to me. so please respond at your leisure, it isnt anything critical to my mission. i hope youre doing well. thanks again. take care. Snarevox (talk) 08:25, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Snarevox, will you please start a new section for new questions in the future rather than keep adding to the same thread. This section is becoming a bloated wall of text.
On archiving, I wouldn't advise you to archive in the way that I do it. My method is no longer recommended, but I have been doing it this way for years since before there were better options. The simplest way to archive is to cut-and-paste the thread you want to archive to your archive page. The most common naming for user archive pages is like User talk:Snarevox/Archive 1, then when that one is full create Archive 2, Archive 3 etc. Your talk page is not very busy at all so that will be fine for you. In your own userspace you can name and organise archives however you like. On article talk pages follow what has already been set up for that page. For busy pages, there are various bots that can automatically archive threads for you. The two most commonly used nowadays are User:ClueBot III and User:lowercase sigmabot III. Follow the instructions on their pages if you want to use either one of them.
On the page redirect, these happen because someone has created a redirect page, in this case Uptown 4 Life. You were quite right to remove the circular link. These happen quite often when it is decided a page is not notable enough for its own article and is redirected to another article that discusses it. That other article may have contained a link to the redirected article, but nobody noticed at the time. It can also happen because someone creates a redlink for an article they think should exist, and later on someone else creates a redirect back to the page containing the (former, now blue) redlink. SpinningSpark 07:22, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

10001 (number)Edit

Hello Spark, you closed the RfD for this as Delete, but I still see the page. Jay (talk) 17:29, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, done now. There must have been a hiccup in the script. SpinningSpark 21:33, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Balla railway stationEdit

Hello, I encountered the Balla railway station article on new page patrol. I noticed that you A10 speedily deleted an earlier version to move Balla Railway Station into its place. The preexisting Talk:Balla railway station and incoming links suggest that the old page was about a railway station in County Mayo, Ireland that was overwritten with the station in Bangladesh. Can you check the deleted page's history and dab the two stations if necessary? • Gene93k (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

@Gene93k: Thanks for bringing that to my attention, it should be fixed now. I hadn't noticed the editor had overwritten an existing page with a duplicate. They are being a major pain all round. SpinningSpark 15:29, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

File:Paleo-cosmic flux.svgEdit

Hello Spinningspark,

sorry about that edit, that was automatic and I didn't notice it, else I would have reverted it myself. I just used the export process to import the original file versions to Wikimedia Commons because of your complaint at c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Paleo-cosmic flux.svg. Regards --Rosenzweig (talk) 19:32, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. All forgiven. SpinningSpark 19:39, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2022-08-01/HumourEdit

Your tears of rage give me power. But seriously, I thought it funny in context: twenty-one amazing articles, then you get to Humour and it's so pathetic that it's kind of circles back to funny. Also, I can slightly justify it by saying I did three other articles, and also researched the From the Archives, and copyedited like ten of the articles, so I might have been a little silly by then. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8% of all FPs 17:10, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Also, great title for your comment. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8% of all FPs 17:14, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Your message on the AFD of KoogleEdit

I thought your edit summary telling me to "give it a rest," felt a bit curt, but attempting to AGF. I do not agree I was "text-walling," I just still don't understand why you want to keep this article, but it is not personal of course. WP:TEXTWALL: However, an equal-but-opposite questionable strategy is dismissal of legitimate evidence and valid rationales with a claim of "text-walling" or "TL;DR". Not every matter can be addressed with a one-liner, and validity does not correspond to length, especially the more complex the matter is. The COTD is characterized by noise and hand-waving, not simply verbosity. Andre🚐 22:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Help with proposed edits for Devialet articleEdit

Hi there. I proposed edits to fix numerous problems on the Devialet article on the Talk page: Talk:Devialet#Devialet Request Edits for July 2022. I’m an employee of the company and can’t edit the page due to WP:COI - are you able to review the requests? Thanks!Beautreillis6698 (talk) 13:55, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

There is no reason why I should give priority to your request on a page I have no connection with. I am a volunteer here whereas you are paid for what you do. I'm not going to do your job for you for nothing. Be patient and wait for someone to respond. That is likely to take some time, especially as your request is lengthy. SpinningSpark 13:54, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Edit war on RadioEdit

I was wondering if you could look at this controversy on Talk:Radio#Uncited material in need of citations about Nightscream's tactic of moving uncited but unobjectionable material to the Talk page. Even if this practice is acceptable according to policy, Nightscream's personal attacks ([1], [2] and see edit comments) and repeatedly removing text [3], [4], [5] while sourcing is being worked on by other editors seem to be crossing into an edit war / disruptive editing or WP:POINT. --ChetvornoTALK 01:47, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

As far as edit warring is concerned, ANI already looked at my practices and ruled it "no violation".
I composed a fairly succinct summary of persistent violations of WP:V/WP:NOR/WP:CS, as well as their repeated refusal to respond to my counterarguments and the overall shady tactics in which some of them engaged here.
I stopped engaging with the violators, not only because their violations of policy is so self-evident, but becuase their continued refusals to even respond directly to a single one of my counterarguments, and their persistent belief that a small collection of editors =can get together on a talk page, agree to ignore fundamental WP policy, and call it a "consensus", made it clear that there was no reasoning with them. But feel free to review our "discussions" to see for yourself. Nightscream (talk) 02:07, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Also reported at ANI [6]. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 11:55, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

As an addendum since you a families with the editor, Nightscream keeps editing other users talk at User talk:Nightscream. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 19:01, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

a question about something..im not sure exactly whatEdit

happy autumn good fellow.

i saw your last reply asking me to create a new section.. prior to your request, i wasnt really sure how to handle it, so i just kept adding new questions to the old topic so i didnt clog up your talk page with a bunch of questions.

now that i know that is actually your preferred method, i will proceed accordingly.

i think i have an easy one for you today. i somehow ended up on a glossary page for billiards and i noticed lots of words are underlined with little blue dotted lines (not sure if blue due to dark mode)...

anyways, on my small device i wasnt even sure i was actually seeing them correctly until i zoomed in..

ive never seen these before, when i click the underlined word, it takes me directly to the definition of that word in another area of the same page..

im fairly sure you already know what im talking about, but ill put a link at the end of this if you need an example. im just wondering what these "links" are called and how to create them..

i suspect i would never need to use this unless i was authoring a gallery, but im still curious. i tried to find it on my own but kept ending up on wiki, interwiki, and external link howtos.

get around to me whenever you can, and as always, thanks again. Snarevox (talk) 14:54, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

You seem to be talking about Glossary of cue sports terms which is redirected from Billiards glossary (helpful next time if you provide a link to the page you are discussing). The internal page links have been made with the template {{gli}}. Read the documentation page at the template for more information. Generally, to find out how something has been done on a page, view the page in the source editor (not in the default visual editor). A lot of the more unusual formatting is done by means of templates. In the source text these are marked with double curly brackets. See Help:Template for more information. SpinningSpark 15:41, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Requests for adminshipEdit

just a quick addendum.. i was doing some basic wikipedia browsing and i noticed a link at the top of a page talking about some "request for adminship" vote going on, i got curious and i clicked on it..

i noticed about halfway down the page, theres a section called "current nominations" and it has a bunch of questions for the nominee, followed by a bunch of support votes with explanations followed by a couple oppose votes with explanations.

my only question here is, if i wanted to cast a vote (i dont, im just curious how to do it) since i couldnt find anything that read "cast your vote here", i assumed people just edit that page and cobble their vote into the code thats already there, then i figured that was a pretty dumb idea because a highly active page being edited by >1 person would cause a conflict at the most basic level with say 2 people trying to simultaneously edit in their votes on a page that already has 9 votes and both people trying to number their vote as "10" and im prettysure ive been involved in such situations, just not exactly like that..

so if you arent meant to edit the pages source to add your vote in, how are you meant to add a vote or participate in a discussion on pages like this.. heres a link to the rfa pages i encountered.. (p.s. how do i add just one single blank line between indented "paragraphs" similar to the single blank line between the non indented paragraphs in the original "non addendum" part of this page? for some reason im able to use a single blank return line if the paragraph isnt indented but im having to add 2 blank return lines to put any blank space at all between indented paragraphs? and why is the "thank you kindly" text below here so tiny? ok i notice it seems to be tiny because its only a couple words because when i copy/paste "thank you kindly" 4 or 5 times, it renders regular size..any thoughts?

thank you kindly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Whpq# Snarevox (talk) 06:19, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

So you just said that you remembered I asked you to create a new section for new topics and then added a new unrelated topic to the same thread. Never mind, I've separated them for you. This is not just the way I like to work, it's the accepted convention on Wikipedia to start a new thread (and on the internet generally).
Yes, you do just edit the page to vote. Edit conflicts can occur, but the software is a lot better nowadays at resolving them than it used to be. The numbering is automatic, just follow the convention of starting your vote with a hash (#) character. SpinningSpark 15:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

InductionEdit

<conversation moved to Talk:Induction>

SnottiteEdit

Hello, you cannot see the term in the linked paper because Pisarowicz created that term later. I read lots of articles about it when I created the german articles Snottite and Cueva de Villa Luz. --21:56, 10 October 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.167.221.218 (talk)

Sorry I am on vacation and not used to write with my mobile. --Elfabso (talk) 22:07, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Wanna Clear My DoubtEdit

Hi Sir , I am a new Wiki User . And I have a doubt related To this page on Magnetic Dipole .

The previous version of the topic had → Concepts of Magnetic Dipole in General Physics

but in a recent edit this section was removed by you . I am a student currently so I want You to please clear my doubt basically what is the correct thing ? How can we Prove that Monopoles Don't Exist ( Or Do They Exist ? ) ? What actually is Magnetic Dipole and Pole Strength ? ..

And Sir I would also like you to please tell me if these videos teach something erroneous :

Video Lecture 1

Video Lecture 2

Hoping That You will Help Me Out .

Thanks Sir .

:) STUDYALWAYS (talk) 14:19, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

@STUDYALWAYS: The jury is still out on whether magnetic monopoles exist. There are some theoretical reasons for believing that they might exist, but to date, all attempts at actually finding them have failed. This book gives a short summary of the position, and this scholarly paper gives a more detailed description. In any event, you can't put stuff like that in Wikipedia articles without citing a reliable source (your lecturer's videos don't count as reliable sources).
To answer your other questions; a magnetic dipole is a magnetic field that is identical to the field that would be created by a pair of magnetic monopoles. All magnetic dipoles that we know of are not created by monopoles, but rather, ultimately, by the magnetic field of electrons in orbit in their atoms or otherwise by gross circular motion of electric charges (a moving charge generates a magnetic field). Magnetic pole strength is the magnetic strength (the magnetic analogy of electric charge) that the (fictitious) monopoles would possess if the magnetic dipole had really been created magnetic monopoles. Please note that I am not here to teach you stuff so please take any further knowledge questions to the science reference desk unless it is connected with improving an article. SpinningSpark 15:34, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
You are So Helpful .Thanks a lot Sir
) STUDYALWAYS (talk) 14:14, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

HosieryEdit

Hi Spinning, How should I proceed if I have a suspicion, but no firm evidence of sockpuppetry? Thanks catslash (talk) 00:10, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

In most cases there isn't hard evidence until a checkuser looks at it. Editing behaviour is enough to open an WP:SPI case. This could be similar interests in articles, common turns of phrase, typos, or formatting habits, or a whole heap of newly created accounts turning up to support a discussion. I've myself blocked a fair number of sock accounts on such evidence without an SPI if it looks warranted. Can't really help you much more without details of the actual case. If you're reluctant to publicly name the suspected sockmaster, you can talk to me on email. SpinningSpark 09:11, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Many thanks for your help with this. catslash (talk) 00:07, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Butler MatrixEdit

Hi, yesterday I made a revision to the Butler matrix article in Wikipedia, and you undid my revision. You clearly understand the issue, but you don't agree with the revision. May I comment?

The sentence that bothered me was "It consists of an n by n matrix ( some power of two) with hybrid couplers and fixed-value phase shifters at the junctions."

You are right that later in the article it is stated that the number of physical pieces of the hardware that implements a certain multibeam phased array can be of the order n log_2 n. I agree that there is a factor of 1/2, which I didn't include because it comes from counting each hybrid as a unit device even though it has two inputs and two outputs. Most people using the order notation will ignore a constant factor just as some a matrix multiplication algorithm may be said to require n^2 multiplications and additions, when it is really n^2 multiplications and also n^2 additions. I have no quarrel with the factor of 1/2.

Of course, a Butler matrix might be taken to mean the matrix achieved by the hardware. I have always taken it to mean the hardware itself.

Let me relate an experience from many decades ago. I was doing signal processing and was excited to read a paper by John Tukey and Jim Cooley, disclosing the fast Fourier transform. This was about an algorithm, certainly by now one of the most important computer algorithms. I was the first person to introduce this algorithm to the MIT community, just a few days before the Cooley/Tukey paper appeared. When I gave my talk, someone in the audience (Ed Muehe) said that the flow graph of the algorithm was identical to a Butler matrix, which he then explained. The Butler matrix, an array radar multiple beam beamformer, was in use for several years before Tukey discovered the FFT algorithm. Both the Butler matrix and the Fast Fourier transform are important because they reduce the complexity of their respective tasks from n^2 to n log n.

Charlie Rader 2601:18E:C182:2190:A5E6:EB02:88EC:AA26 (talk) 20:36, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

মোঃ মশিউর রহমান চৌধুরী againEdit

Hi Spinningspark, you blocked মোঃ মশিউর রহমান চৌধুরী in July for disruptive editing, specifically related to copy-pasting and train stations. Well, they seem to be back at it again. I just redirected two train station articles they created that were word-for-word copies of Habiganj Bazar–Shaistaganj–Balla line. This user also seems to be unable or unwilling to respond to talk page messages (maybe WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU). A block might be necessary again. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 18:55, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

The article you linked is largely the work of the user, so it was his copyright in the first place (unless he copied it from somewhere else). It's not therefore a big problem if he has used the same text somewhere else. Please provide links to the pages you redirected if you think there is still a problem. SpinningSpark 21:00, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
It's arguably disruptive editing to be copy-pasting the exact same article with essentially no changes, but I suppose you are right that it's not a copyright violation. Earwig doesn't give me any hits. Nevermind, I guess, though I still think there are CIR issues with this editor. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

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