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"You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day
In a vision, or in none
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream."

- from A Dream Within a Dream by Edgar Allen Poe

A barnstar for you! IIEdit

  The Special Barnstar
The Special Barnstar is awarded to a user as a gesture of appreciation when there is no other barnstar which would be appropriate. Hafspajen (talk) 12:57, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
William Trost Richards - Cornwall can be just as "well-stacked" as Dorset.

Thanks Hafs. I take a special pride in being inappropriate.   PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:31, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

... it just means you got special needs. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Only one of my personalities has special needs ... the other 59 are quite self-sustaining. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Happy ever after Hafspajen (talk) 21:11, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
"Wiggle your glasses and give us a smile." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor ! Arctic Monkey (talk) 12:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Dorset can get quite cold, you know! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:31, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Twinkle, twinkle little bat... "A Mad Tea-Party" (talk) 12:34, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
I'd like to self-diagnose with dementia and claim my £55. Thank you, nurse. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:17, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Lovely HalloweenEdit

  Hello :PaleCloudedWhite- Hafspajen has given you some lovely Halloween gummy bears, to wish you a Happy Halloween! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a gummy bear! Enjoy! Don't eat them all at once!   Hafspajen (talk) 14:20, 27 October 2014 (UTC)


Hmm, I've found some Gummi 'bares' - something tells me they can be eaten all at once... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:16, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
You Won't See Me! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:31, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
HUH, WHAT A PSYCO HALLOWEEN.  Hafspajen (talk) 13:17, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

"Hubble bubble toil and toffee" (the noo)Edit

Beware of girls in red dresses who say, "trick or treat?" PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:32, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Mmm, nice earrings, Paley! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:38, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
A Whiter Shade Of Pale
Nice! But this is more me...
Huh, your complexity. Hafspajen (talk) 20:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Hm, hmEdit

The White Cloud, Head Chief of the Iowas
  A Pale .... Whatever
Hm, monkeys flying around? Hafspajen (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Personally I thought pornography fitted better, but never mind. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:58, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Speeding (library) ticket.
I'm non the wiser as to the nature of what was visited upon my userpage - presumably it was an overflowing of effusive well-wishing that, had I seen it, would only have gone to my head... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:46, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
It may have been a very amusing one-word substitution of your undergraduate course. But I'm not allowed to tell you, in case you get a bit "physical". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Oh, who. Hafspajen (talk) 22:16, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
The only pornography I encountered as an undergraduate was courtesy of Robert and chums, which says something of my mental state at the time... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:38, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

... same here, but you'd often find me stalking the undergrowth looking for my mates. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

...when in the forest, beware of grim hazards, such as limbs lying around, and general bodily disintegration... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
OGM! I've been out-Easter Egged! curses!.... Martinevans123 (talk) 12:08, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Marty you say you are Hungarian–English translator. what is that mean.azanyad picsaja - I always wondered. Hafspajen (talk) 11:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 This user is wondering what is the point of anything

...something to do with elbows, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:39, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello. Ryan Pikachu (talk) 09:26, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello. Is this Random Hello Day, or something? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


Whatever they? All Swedes Norwegian and Danish spell it St. Lucia. Hafspajen (talk) 11:22, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Can we call you Norman? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:33, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
No. Hafspajen (talk) 12:36, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

you are insupportableHafspajen (talk) 12:56, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Best wishes for a happy holiday seasonEdit

Happy Holiday Cheer 
Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user an Awesome Holiday and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings! Joys! Hafspajen (talk) 01:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Hafs (sorry for the delay). What is glögg? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

That is glögg ... in Old Norse.   Hafspajen (talk) 23:32, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
As drunk by Noggin the Nog, perhaps? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:36, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Nadolig hapusEdit

Thankyou Martin! As you have seen, I've just come back from Santas Grotto - and I must say, it's more entertaining than this place ("You basically walk around a small wood, while people dressed as elves try to slow you down") Haha! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:31, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

OMG, no! ... and those dreadful floral cuffs to contend with, too!? He's looking even more perma-tanned than our mate "mahogany Dave", this year. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:40, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
What kind of floral cult? Pure winter-wonderland Hafspajen (talk) 11:43, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Looks like The Black and White Minstrel Show might be making a comeback... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:55, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[[
How utterly ridiculous. But I think you'll find this version is more pc, these days. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
How utterly going to extremes. Hafspajen (talk) 17:54, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
The Black and White Menstrual Show? Sounds like an answer to that old joke, "I say I say I say, what's black and white and red all over?" Or then again, maybe the answer to that is this...? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:11, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy HolidayEdit

Hello Cissie, A short note to wish you and yours "complements of the season". I may even put my teeth in for Christmas Day! Love, Ada, David J Johnson (talk) 15:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Thankyou, Ada. Yes I would recommend keeping the dentures in position - they are necessary for the correct deportment and presentation of the face. And even the tenderest bird is tricky to manage without them... Best wishes, Ciss.

Happy New Year PaleCloudedWhite!Edit

Luncheon Still Life -
Ganymede gets all the best birds..!

Thankyou Hafs, you're very kind. (P.S. I took the liberty of reducing the size of your nuts...they were rather dominating the page... ) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:51, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

How very dare you - as Marty say. Methuselah (talk) 10:59, 1 January 2015 (UTC Your Lunch is already a Featured one. (talk) 10:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

He died just short of his 42nd birthday - sure you want to channel his vibes? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:24, 15 January 2015 (UTC))

Oh, terrible thought.  Methuselah (talk) 17:13, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Let's wish for a great 2015Edit

Thankyou for your kind thoughts Gareth, mine is 'in the post'. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:55, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Mari Lwyd hapusEdit

Happy New Year PaleCloudedWhite!Edit

100px Wishing you many wonderful experiences
Best wishes for health and happiness in the year ahead. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Forgot this one

I like those! Wonderful! Nice to have lots of eyes watching my page. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Extras!!!   Hafspajen (talk) 14:40, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy DayEdit

  Happy 22 January
Happy Don`t worry be happy Day for you! Hafspajen (talk) 17:46, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

What's up? ReplyEdit

No, not just that, or even that to any degree. I had a desire to return to the "real world" but now feel I would be better off just cutting down my time here. Thanks for your concern but I'll be back, with a smaller commitment. Britmax (talk) 09:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Anyway, I have to stay with people doing things like this. I mean, what do they teach them in schools nowadays? Britmax (talk) 10:56, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Presumably they "cribbed" their information from an unreliable source. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)


It is like Betula verrucosa and Betula pendula The Wrestlers by William Etty- though they don't look like they were wresling much
File:Dash for Liberty (Boston Public Library).jpg
Does that box have a veneer of Betula pendula?


Finders Kweepers... Hunting High and Low ... Your Chicken (talk) 22:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

One and the same! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:00, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Mud Festival - now these are wresling....!
Yes, but is it art?
HUH. ART? I think the guys to left look like - oh dear, I will never let you go, now that I found you... Hafspajen (talk) 00:18, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Nah, the black guy's just trying to keep the white guy's loincloth from falling off... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
And he lost his anyway, so what's the point? Hafspajen (talk) 01:38, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Well maybe he's taking it down then, so that everyone can be naked? "The Nudist"
Tha's IT! Hafspajen (talk) 14:43, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


A Valentine sheep-doggie for you
Albert Bierstadt - Cloud Study, Moonlight

Are you sure that's cake, Hafs, and not a souvenir from Lechuguilla Cave? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:33, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Wasn't Doctor Who battling these in the 1970s? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
(Probably in a quarry somewhere in Dorset...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:34, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
It translates as a Spit cake ... how appetising! Ugh! ... spitting it out ... — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 16:46, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Spit cake? Perhaps it's "composed of interwoven strands of salivary laminae cement"? Back to caves again.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:43, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Good job it's not Spit the Dog! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:54, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Earlier today I removed mine from my Talk; I have too much respect for my dentist. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 19:59, 13 February 2015 (UTC) 
Ah yes, I do remember you once reporting a clean bill of health after a dental visit. Anyway it's nice of you to pop in Gareth - if I'd known you were coming.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:18, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
If only. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:30, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
or you like horses better?
Sad things happen when you make love to Jones - all tokens are thrown away ... snif ... Hafspajen (talk) 23:42, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
  - a standard signature for you? Hafspajen (talk) 15:08, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Differenr mmoodes   or   or   Hafspajen (talk) 15:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
eh? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:01, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Uh. you Pale Clouded White ... . Hafspajen (talk) 20:11, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
A state or quality of feeling at a particular time: sad, upset?   ...a distinctive emotional quality ...   ...a prevailing emotional tone or general attitude:  Paley's mood. (angry)Hafspajen (talk) 20:16, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
My moog cloud?? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:26, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
I was right. There was something spikey there. Hafspajen (talk) 20:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


Hi PaleCloudedWhite, Thank you for your note left on my talk page. Please read my contribution to the article's talk page in which I make it quite clear that the phrase 'underground tree' is used by scholars and in which I add the source. cheers Paul venter (talk) 08:34, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

That isn't the point. You do not have consensus for your addition. Your comment on the talk page is basically saying "I am right, the objectors are wrong, therefore I can revert to my version". It doesn't work like that. As per WP:BRD, please establish consensus on the article's talk page. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Royal Vauxhall TavernEdit

A typically fruity selection of bar snacks laid on by the RVT...

This article has been edited by someone who clearly does not have a NPOV and has made no attempt to hide it and even claiming control of the article. I made a few improvements (removing duplications, adding an image from Commons, correcting some poor English and addition of citations re Princess Diana visit) before I realised quite how much that user had changed the article. You tackled something similar re this article in Aug 2013, so I thought I should bring it to your attention - I am sure you know better than I do what should be done, I think it borders on vandalism. Emerald (talk) 21:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello EmeraldRS. Thanks for contacting me about this. I had noticed that someone had been making changes a while back, but at the time I didn't have the time/energy to look at what they were doing. I'll have a look now. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:31, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Nice job, PaleCloudedWhite. As someone fond of the RVT I was a bit upset by the mess someone had made of the article. I will try to find some more references for the article and might find more detail for the history in the process.Emerald (talk) 09:56, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. More citations would be good. It seems that from time to time, the owners/managers of the property edit the article so that it supplements their advertising, which of course doesn't suit Wikipedia. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:01, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Charlotte BrontëEdit

Thanks for catching my mistake.Peas345 (talk) 12:40, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

That's OK, that's what happens around here. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:46, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Delete Sky clip from DorchesterEdit

Upon returning to the nest site, Bill the stork said, "I'm sorry darling, but the local branch of Twig Shop had sold out of the larger sizes...

I've been trying to delete a non-existent Sky reference about Wellworths from the entry for Dorchester - but you and other editor have both reinstated it.

The Sky news piece has been deleted so it's not helpful for it to be there.

There is a video piece with Chris Evans which I created and own which is not dissimilar but when I swapped them, I was told by another editor that You Tube is not a reliable source !

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Alastair Nisbet (talk) 20:54, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello Alastair. I didn't remove any Youtube link in my edit, although it is true anyway that Youtube is not normally considered a reliable source (although I understand it can be used in certain situations). The reason I restored the link to the non-existent Sky page is because I was following the advice given in this guide, which states that a URL link should not be deleted just because it is dead. When I restored the Sky link I also added a deadlink template to it (look at the reference and see), to draw attention to its moribund status. It may be possible to find an archived copy of the web address - though this is a process I am not familiar with as yet. It is also possible to supplement the deadlink with a working reliable source. Either way, simple deletion of the link should not be considered the first route to take. I hope that helps. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:45, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
If I've mis-understood the issue here, then I apologise but if you are simply looking for a replacement source, this contains everything you need. --Ykraps (talk) 21:51, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Ykraps, that's very helpful (I hadn't had time/energy to find a replacement ref). I've added it to the article. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
"They came to a grizzled church, whose massive square tower rose unbroken into the darkening sky ..." MichaelHenchard123 (talk) 22:09, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Ah, yes, shops and TV - the religion of modern Britain. Can't say I'm a believer... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Alastair Nisbet, why did you remove the link again half an hour after I'd directed you to a page that explained why just doing that isn't a good thing? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining - I didn't really see the point of including a dead link. I added a link to my own footage of the event because I knew it was a good piece which I own and was happy to share. Alastair Nisbet (talk) 05:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The Echo piece is about the closing of the store in 2012, not it's opening to a huge media frenzy in 2009 - hardly a substitute Alastair Nisbet (talk) 05:36, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Sources don't have to be entertaining; the Echo article includes the relevant facts to verify the statements in the article. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Close callEdit

Someone looks a bit stony-faced...
Is that "Immortal with Toad" or just Frog That Will Never Die?

"incidentally his pet frogs won't be doing any leaping anytime soon after PCW managed to drown them": [2] Martinevans123 (talk) 23:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I only did it to try and win a set of personalised hoodies for my squad... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
hahaha, what a thought. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


The Seventh Plague of Egypt, John Martin, 1823
The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, 1852
"I hope you don't think I'm being provocative" said Angel No.1, "but aren't we supposed to be working for the creative team?"

Hi, PaleCloudedWhite. I do Latin, but I have never really worked on the Latin of Domesday Book, which is a bit special. I am willing to try to help -- you are welcome to try me with specific questions -- but I have a suspicion that there must be someone else around who could do it better! You probably already know about Wikipedia:WikiProject Domesday Book, but that is not much use because as far as I know the project never really became active. The originator of that project, who really does know Domesday Book, seems to be untraceable on Wikipedia (the username is somehow wrong), but I have her email address and if you want to try to contact her I could forward a message. Just write it on my talk page and I will send it on as an email. (Don't send me an email -- my system email is inactive.) You could also ask Adam Bishop, who is listed as a participant in that WikiProject: how familiar he is with Domesday Book I don't know, but he is certainly a Latinist. Andrew Dalby 13:07, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking time to reply. At the moment it might be possible for someone to help without a good understanding of Latin, as I've been using Domesday-related sources that provide translations (though I suspect being a Latinist would assist). So far I have primarily been using 2 sources: this one and this one. The first source shows the actual entries for each place, such as here. The second source is rather basic, but it does provide a legible transcript of each entry's 11th-century name (such as here) - something the first source doesn't do. My main problem at the moment is that I don't know how to interpret settlements that have more than one Domesday entry, such as this one. How should such multiple entries be summarised with respect to one settlement? Should the figures in each entry be aggregated to give a total number of households, total acreage of meadow etc.? How should the manorial ownership be interpreted if there appears to be several lords and tenants-in-chief? Is this the kind of question you might be able to assist with? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:09, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
"We're all doomed, I tell you, aye, Confutatis maledictis...." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
(Andrew, I hope you don't mind my friends adding colour to this conversation...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:03, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
ouch!! lol Martinevans123 (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
ouch!! -- -- Apollo and AuroraHafspajen (talk) 23:54, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I shall press on regardless of noises off. I see the problem with Mappowder, all right. Thing is, both those sources are interpretations of the Domesday text. OpenDomesday (which I believe is run by the user who started our WikiProject) is extremely handy, but it can't tell you everything, because everything doesn't fit into any known database! Do you have an actual text or translation? I have the one-volume Penguin translation, which does indeed mention Mappowder 4 times in its index, but if you look at each entry in the text, you see why. Looking at OpenDomesday, on the other hand, it's very hard to see why.
Having said that, I think the quick answer to this specific problem is that normally you would get a correct answer by conflating the entries, but (a) there could be cases in which doubling of data is the result of conflicting claims or of misinterpretation by the Domesday clerks, (b) conflating the entries would be (in Wikipedia terms) synthesis, and (quite apart from Wikipedia rules) synthesis of primary sources in cases like this is a bad thing, because it often conceals a problem.
Must go now, but keep on asking questions if you like! Andrew Dalby 09:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't have any translations or copies of the text; would it be handy if I did? I suppose it's looking likely that, using the sources I've been using so far, all that can be said of multiple-entry settlements is that they appear in the text X number of times, which is a shame.
Another problem with the OpenDomesday source is that it won't/can't state specifically who people are when their names appear in the text - it just gives their gender and states that more than one person may have that name, which means that in Wikipedia entries, it isn't possible to wikilink them. Do you know whether other Domesday sources may be more specific? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't know the answer to that. The Penguin translation doesn't have an index of persons. Perhaps the Phillimore editions do, but I don't have any of those. I can think of no better way to pursue these people than (a) to search for each name + Domesday on Google, or (b) to look at the Victoria County Histories which (where they exist) include a detailed study of Domesday Book for each county, discussing identifications of landowners and tenants.
I don't know quite how deep you want to wade into this, but, if you already have your boots on, a full translation such as the Penguin would be useful. OpenDomesday is very good but it gives you a sort of snippet view of the text (and hard to read, too). Andrew Dalby 16:43, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
I can see I'm going to have to invest in some books (adding them to my mental list...)
Incidentally is it more correct to not use the definite article when writing about Domesday Book? So far I have tended to write " 1086 in the Domesday Book...", but I notice sources tend to omit the definite article... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:25, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Ive looked at this in the past and I (did) know where you might find help. Look at Weston-on-Trent to see what it might look like Victuallers (talk)
Thanks. I had previously seen that kind of 'Domesday infobox' elsewhere, and it does look like a good way to present the information. But the problem is still one of first having to understand the Domesday sources, which isn't always straightforward. I'll probably have to obtain a copy of the original text and learn Latin. Quite simple really.... :) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:13, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

For youEdit

Tawning up after the schock.
  Garden Award
Henri Fantin-Latour - Basket of Roses Pepsi (talk) 00:48, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Peppers! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Anthony Abbot in bad company
"I'm a pain in your rectum, I am that bitch y'all slept on". ENJOY!! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
I like that! (I bet Michael Jackson was wondering what sort of company he was keeping heh heh....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:34, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Time for Outrage! ... Hafspajen (talk) 21:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

What? Old Peter T getting up to his bishop bashing again? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:34, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
We all love a bit of "bashing the bishop", now and again, don't we lads. Martinevans123 (talk)
What a jaunty rhythm they've worked up there... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:01, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
No use fighting it - "resistance is futile"... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:11, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
How did I ever got in this company? Maybe it was someting I ate?

Everybody tells me that it's so hard to make it It's so hard to break yeah There's no way to fake it Everybody tells me that it's wrong what I'm feeling And I shouldn't believe in The dreams that I'm dreaming

I hear it every day I hear it all the time I'm never going to amount too much But they're never going to change my mind, no

[Chorus] [2x] Tell me, tell me, tell me Something I don't know, something I don't know Something I don't know

How many inches in a mile What it takes to make you smile Get you not to treat me like a child, baby

[Chorus] Tell me, tell me, tell me Something I don't know, something I don't know Something I don't know

Tell me, tell me something I don't know Tell me, tell me something I don't know

Everybody tells me I don't know what I'm doing The life I'm pursuing The odds I'll be losing Everybody tells me that it's one in a million Like one in a billion Or one in a zillion

I hear it every day I hear it all the time I'm never going to amount too much But they're never going to change my mind, no

[Chorus [2x] Tell me, tell me, tell me Something I don't know, something I don't know Something I don't know

How many inches in a mile What it takes to make you smile Get you not to treat me like a child, baby

[Chorus] Tell me, tell me, tell me Something I don't know, something I don't know Something I don't know

[Rap] Selena hit the track Like Katrina making waves Like Cold Medina, make them say "I'm ready!" Are you ready for it? [Yeah, I'm ready for it] Really ready for it? [Yeah, I'm ready for it]

I'm on my way I know I'm going to get there someday It doesn't help when you say It won't be easy

[Chorus] [2x] Tell me, tell me, tell me Something I don't know, something I don't know Something I don't know

How many inches in a mile What it takes to make you smile Get you not to treat me like a child, baby

[Chorus] [3x]

Tell me, tell me, tell me
Something I don't know, something I don't know
Something I don't know
Nah, just "Tell Me Something Good" Martinevans123 (talk) 23:41, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
... "for you" ... "for me" ... "for Phoebe still a baby".... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 01:26, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello, PaleCloudedWhite. You have new messages at Hafspajen's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.



I think that Timpace may be a sockpuppet . Please see [3] Michael Glass (talk) 02:03, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

I had noticed this investigation already, and it could be a possible explanation for the intransigent behaviour, though I haven't knowingly had interaction with DeFacto before, so any analysis of mine would be limited. I am assuming that your unwillingness to revert their edits is due to the general sanctions? Unfortunately the RfC that I instigated doesn't seem to be a popular dish on the menu. I am not sure what other avenues are available. Wikipedia is sometimes rather unhelpful to editors who follow the proper channels. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 05:33, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy EasterEdit

  Happy Easter
Happy Easter.... ! Hafspajen (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Titter ye notEdit

... not so bland?

At this rate, you might be looking at a WP:GA for Blandforum Forum! Titter ye not, missus. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:36, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Do you think Wikipedia's powers that be will award me half a yard of gold brocade? (P.S. Blandforum Forum?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Cerne Giant.Edit

Hi, I have noticed that an adjudication has been given on the question of units on the Cerne Giant article. See this diff. Do you think this settles the issue? Michael Glass (talk) 02:58, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

One would hope so, though of course on Wikipedia nothing is ever finally settled, so I wouldn't be surprised if another discussion springs up on the same issue. I had stepped back from the discussion because I think MOSUNIT needs changing - as I stated in the discussion, the existence of the footnote (and the interpretation of it) makes these kinds of disagreements more difficult to settle. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:36, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Is another RFC worth the time and trouble involved? What do you think? Michael Glass (talk) 23:12, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I'd concentrate on seeing if it's possible to get that MOSUNIT footnote changed or removed - I can't see how it being there helps Wikipedia, as it just encourages time-wasting disagreements. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:47, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

  The Geography Barnstar
for your help in improving the hydrology and water quality on the article about the River ToneRod talk 17:21, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Glad to be of help, if only in a small way. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:05, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Nigella LawsonEdit

Okay, I've added my piece on the talk page as you requested. Cexycy (talk) 00:44, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I've replied. (and I'm going to bed now, so it'll be a few hours before I make any further input) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:51, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
What! Not notable?! The Telegraph even reminded us it was actually "German, Italian and French language skills"! What's not to like?? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Oh, Christ! What is wrong with everyone today? Is it not possible for an upstanding member to keep filth out of Wikipedia? ("look how the cream squirts out the end when you put your mouth around it...") PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:53, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to sunny WraxallEdit

You might also want to have a look at Talk:Wraxall, Somerset. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:34, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you think there's enough aggro there to whet my appetite? You do appreciate that I only like engaging in discussions with editors who call me a cunt and tell me to fuck off.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:03, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Young Gardener (so definitely not me then) ... It's kind of about a gard'ner, and he's getting on in years, and he's stuck in this small town. Small towns fascinate me: you struggle like hell to get out but some people want to stay 'cause then they're the big fish in the small pond, and then others just kind of get stuck there. So here he is, working in this little place and then an old flame comes in and she's probably driving a nice car and looking kind of sharp—but he's moved on. Then he sees her and at first he doesn't even remember who he is, and then he realises who it is but he's just too embarrassed to say 'hello'.— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:21, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
A nice car? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:28, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Too much "scrumpy"! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:16, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
There's no juice in my orchard, Gareth, though I wouldn't like to vouch for the abstinence of certain IP editors... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:14, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
So sorry to hear about your juice problem, PCW. I think you can get pills for that. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC) p.s. Doris sends kindest regards.
Doris Fyne-Plums
Sucked through her gums
As she entered the trattoria;
Her husband Reg
("Meat and two veg")
Had not invited Victoria!
PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:51, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Doris tells me she's "deeply touched". Setting your sights on this year's Eliot perhaps? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:08, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
In case you missed our friend. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:17, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, there appears to be a bit of a nip in the air, doesn't there? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
"Like an unseasonable stormy day,
Which makes the silver rivers drown their shores,
As if the world were all dissolved to tears,
So high above his limits swells the rage
Of PaleCloudedBroke" - (Richard II, Act III, Scene 2).
I see. "Nowt so queer" etc. Looks like damage has been inflicted elsewhere ("The January record high strangely occurred when it was dark"). Oh dear. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:17, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm amazed that you've discovered it's our Tomasz. Surprised he can find time to fit it all in. And him such a dish, too! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:23, 24 June 2015 (UTC)


Did not expect you, Hpj, to be a reader of our Daily Mail. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 13:06, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
First thing I do every morning... What do YOU read, people? Hafspajen (talk) 13:09, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Never eat frogs, though
Good God! Certainly not this rag — a British tabloid Sunday newspaper, founded as The People on 16 October 1881. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 13:17, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
What, so no-one here reads ITN with their morning cornflakes? How shocking! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 13:25, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
NOO CORNFLAKES!!!!! What on earth. When there is ham and bacon and eggs, hey there. Hafspajen (talk) 13:34, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Are the eggs green? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 13:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
You are vegetarian, Paley. Hafspajen (talk) 14:14, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Not quite. I eat fish. But not ham - which I never particularly liked even when I ate meat, all those decades ago....... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:25, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Well, every man with his own preferences. I eat meat, thoug I prefer fish and eggs.  Hafspajen (talk) 14:37, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Punjab India, not PakistanEdit

Punjab is located in India, not Pakistan. If you wish to move Punjab in to Pakistan, please discuss the proposed edit in the Talk:Cuscuta page, otherwise your edit will continue to be reverted. This is the second time I have had to revert your change. Thanks. Damotclese (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

After further evaluation, I agree with you, Pakistan is correct. Thanks. Damotclese (talk) 15:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Ahem. I think you'll find it's actually in Bradford. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:38, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Well that's all settled then, and no-one has had to move Punjab anywhere - phew! (and just for the sake of correctness, I think you only reverted me once, Damotclese) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

IP reversion neededEdit

Please could you look at the Baltasound article and put it back to the last good version? Not something I can do. SovalValtos (talk) 23:45, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually you had only reverted them once, and they've been blocked as a sock, so you could have reverted again. Anyway, I've removed all the dodgy data - though I haven't removed all that editor's additions, because some of the info is properly sourced. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for that. I can do simple reversions but those involving multi-stages are beyond me so far. SovalValtos (talk) 00:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Even without Rollback it's possible to undo several edits in one go: go into the article history, view the article as it existed on a date before the problematic edits occurred, go into edit mode and save that version of the page. Of course, if there are beneficial edits mixed among the problematic ones, this method cannot be used as it will remove the beneficial edits as well - though sometimes it's possible to manually add them back, if they're not complicated. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 06:52, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject TAFIEdit

Hello, PaleCloudedWhite. You're invited to join WikiProject Today's articles for improvement, a project dedicated to significantly improving articles with collaborative editing in a week's time.

Feel free to nominate an article for improvement at the project's Article nomination board. If interested in joining, please add your name to the list of members. Thanks for your consideration. North America1000 09:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Salford's finestEdit

Yorkshireman takes his cat to the vet's....
Vet: "Is he a tom"?
Yorkshireman: "No, I brought him wimme."

I'm sure you'd never have heard our Bernard telling jokes in such poor taste as this (?) Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

A Yorkshireman might say that folks from Salford ain't what they used to be..[4].. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:10, 9 September 2015 (UTC)


Note to be removed by user: Please can you stop editing 'Bournemouth' article, by removing the urban population of Bournemouth, this statistic is essential in this article and you keep removing without a valid explanation. The urban population is 466,626 and this 'statistic' is featured in many other articles. We both know that the population of the region is much larger than what your trying to make it out to be which doesn't make sense. Please check Reading, Southampton and Portsmouth as they all feature this statistic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:14, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Please keep discussion to the article's talk page. Thanks. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Okeford FitzpaineEdit

Thank you so much for the work you did on what I added to Okeford Fitzpaine. All too often I get castigated for not formatting it right, etc., and (what pisses me off sumfink chronic) my efforts are simply "reverted", see my Talk Page. And thank you for adding a pic of the school - I'm surprised you didn't also add one of the pub - in which FAR more people would be interested ! ;-)

Our house in the village ( was sold in 1966 - we have a scan of the auction catalogue, & have done a fair bit of research on the house & its previous owners, e.g see my additions to George Pitt-Rivers's Wikipedia entry. The Wikipedia Gestapo deleted my entry for Stella....

Two things - "Pre-history", by definition, is NOT "History" ! And... why is your picture of a rose stem upside down ?

Thanks again - in my view, PRECISELY what Wikipedia is about ! RobinClay (talk) 23:15, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello RobinClay. I'm glad you are pleased by the work that I did to the article, though I can understand why your additions might be reverted by other editors. Wikipedia has its own policies and guidelines, and edits are more likely to run into trouble if they don't adhere to them. Formatting issues are minor, but I really recommend that you don't copy-and-paste information from copyrighted work - that really is waving a red flag to a bull. I'm interested in Dorset and rural affairs and this is why I have been taking the time to work through your addition. Unfortunately a lot of sources about villages don't pass the reliable sources test—mostly because they are self-published—and so aren't really usable. I'll see if I can find alternatives to some of the sources you used.
I wrote an article for Dorset Life last year, in which, amongst other things, I wrote about the moss-collecting on Okeford Hill, though Dorset Life have since sat on it (I suspect they'll never publish it, even though they said they would). As part of my research I had quite a long conversation with an Okeford resident, which was very interesting. It saddens me a little to hear that rural industry in the village is being replaced by houses - I wonder if the new residents will have an appreciation of the lives of the people who were there before? Rather ironic in the parish where Jack Hargreaves used to live!
I know pre-history is not history, but it's usual to place all the historical info together in one section - sub-sections can be created later, if/when there is more material to work with.
The rose stem is not upside-down! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:01, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
This Okeford Fitzpaine parish plan from the Dorset For You website, contains lots of information.[[5]] There is also quite a bit at British History Online, here[[6]] and some more info at the A Vision of Britain website.[[7]]. All reliable sources!--Ykraps (talk) 12:05, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
If you have a Dorset library card, you can also access the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, here,[[8]] which has an entry on George Henry Lane-Fox Pitt-Rivers.--Ykraps (talk) 12:18, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Ykraps. I'm familiar with British History Online, and it is currently used as a ref in the article. I've seen A Vision of Britain before, but didn't realise it can be classed as reliable. I've used dorsetforyou quite a bit in the past, including for parish plans, but I'm curious how you managed to extract a url for a direct link to the document? Usually I'm not able to do this, and instead have to settle to a link to a dorsetforyou page with lists of pdf links that readers can then click on - such as this (and if I try to access such pdfs directly via a google search - i.e. not via dorsetforyou - Wikipedia tells me such links are forbidden for some reason). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:20, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
If you right click on the link, select 'copy shortcut', and paste, this will give you the direct url address to the document. Works for Excel too. I've also received that message and I think it's to do with addresses that contain a redirect from another site. For example, Google. I think Vision of Britain is okay, published by University of Portsmouth, I have used it in a few Good Articles for historical population references and quotes from old travel writers. Am I going mad? Where has BHO been used?--Ykraps (talk) 07:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
The BHO ref is currently no.4 in the article, under the title 'Okeford Fitzpaine', in An Inventory of the Historical Monuments in Dorset, Volume 3, Central (London, 1970), pp. 200-207. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:15, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, completely barking then.--Ykraps (talk) 10:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

For you IIEdit

An Absinthe Houdini-style for you! Hafspajen (talk) 10:41, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Artistic Paley gets a lovely alluring young lady, while I get a cronky old flying green dragon!! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
You know what they say - "You Can't Huri Love." (even if this Paley means pudding). Martinevans123 (talk) 11:36, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Paley-man has never posted ghastly things on Hafs' talkpage, so I get lovely things back heh heh.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:49, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Personally, I find our Mari quite fetching in that ethnic headgear. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


"Do you see what I see?" The cute ittle Christmas weather drummer-boy seems to have come early this year. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Sheesh! Seems you were in the shadows there... just waiting to pounce! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
I've just started using Twinkle, you know... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:22, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes... like a tea-tray in the sky. LutwidgeDodgson123 (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Fuchsia gall miteEdit

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

My first DYK - how exciting! Thanks! (I see it's already received its first bout of vandalism, haha!...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:36, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
"Respect" ... that's one more than me. Your vandal has "form". — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 08:46, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Thankyou Gareth. The submission process was really rather painless - perhaps I'll do a few more! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:07, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 17Edit

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... dis ambig done, correctly, I hope PCW ... Aster — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:19, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, done correctly, thankyou Gareth; you must include bot edits on your watchlist - does that make you a bot watcher? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:33, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Ha ha! No, there are no bots on my watchlist ... picked it up from my having you on it.
That Jessica, really? Seems like a nice girl. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
What I meant was that you must see when a bot edits a page on your watchlist - is that not the case? I've hidden bot edits in my preferences, so don't see when bots edit pages on my watchlist. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
You are correct. I like to know exactly what these little varmints are up to ...
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 12:22, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!Edit

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:28, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

United KingdomEdit

Can you believe I didn't even know that sentence was there? (N0n3up (talk) 19:08, 15 December 2015 (UTC))

Well, I had already referred to it in a previous edit, but you reverted that; presumably you had misread what I had written? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, now I see. I probably didn't see it because the historical phrase was mixed along with the last phrase were it mentions Britain's modern status. I apologize for my misread. (N0n3up (talk) 19:56, 15 December 2015 (UTC))

Hi PaleCloudedWhite. Thanks for your comment, but en dashes – with spaces before and after – are used to separate clauses in sentences in British English, not em dashes with are mostly found in US English. My corrections, therefore, are correct and I would ask you to leave them as they are. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neilinabbey (talkcontribs) 21:44, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Nadolig LlawenEdit

Thankyou Martin. I see you've moved your talkpage to a well-known "sprawling commune" in Lapland - hope you don't mind if I wear thermals over my sandals, if I drop by...? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:34, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

You'll be lapping it up. Especially with my seasonal dancers. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
Will Rudolf be wearing his thermal tights again? I don't think I've recovered from the last time... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:30, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
"Is that a fountain down your hose, or are ya just pleased to see me?" GrouchoMartz123 (talk) 22:16, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's Greetings!Edit

Use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Thanks! Another year been and gone! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:39, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...Edit

  Season's Greetings (More Huris)
Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! A jultomte for you! Hafspajen (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

And now for 2016Edit

A view of Lake Bondhus in Norway, and in the background of the Bondhus Glacier, part of the Folgefonna Glacier.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 16:44, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...Edit

  Season's Greetings !!!!
Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! And some drinks! Hafspajen (talk) 09:26, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Vaguely Christmassy musical interludeEdit

Merry Christmas to you and all at PCW Towers. It only sounds a little festive (perhaps you could add some bells as an accompaniment), but this number does at least feature everyone's fave glossolalist. [9] Best wishes. --Hillbillyholiday talk

Best wishes for the wrong Season!!...Edit

  Season's Greetings
Wishing you a Happy Wrong Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! -Gardeners don't like snow-. Hafspajen (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Thankyou to everyoneEdit

Thankyou to everyone who has given me greetings and messages of goodwill over this holiday season. I'm very sorry not to have responded individually or in kind, but at the moment my life outside Wikipedia is causing me difficulties and I just haven't had the energy to engage in human interaction. I guess the medical profession might say I was clinically depressed. Anyway, I haven't gone away and I do think of you all (strange but true!), but at the moment my editing is likely to be sporadic. Bear with me and normal service (whatever that was...) should be resumed at some point.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:03, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Kisses, my dear. Hafspajen (talk) 00:05, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Cissie, Hope 2016 is better for you. Thanks for all your help and improvements to the Dorchester article. Thinking of you, love Ada, David J Johnson (talk) 21:06, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!Edit

You must promise me not to plant so many tulips next year!!
  This-Is-The-Army gals wishing you a Happy New Year!!!!!
Wishing you a Happy New Year! And all best wishes for the New Year! Hafspajen (talk) 09:26, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year, PaleCloudedWhite!Edit

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year PaleCloudedWhiteEdit

100px Happy New Year
Wishing you good health and happiness in 2016. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:37, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Horticultural quandaryEdit

"The colour and form of the flower is somewhere between Alberic Barbier and Paul's Himalayan Musk, although there is little sense, just fait odour of cat pee".

Dear PercyCloudedWhite, knowing how good you are in the potting shed, I thought I'd pick your brains about a rather troublesome floral problem. I've had this particular rambler in my little patch for quite a while. But just recently it seems to have gone completely wild and has grown some very nasty thorns which, I fear, may even be poisonous. I did try and treat it, about four months ago, with a dose of 100% phosphorus fertilizer followed by a mulch of well-rotted farmyard manure. But instead of blossoming, as I had hoped, it suddenly became very gnarled and twisted. What should I do? I fear it's beginning to take over in its sunny little corner and is ruthlessly dominating all the cowering little perennials nearby, which often seem quite blighted. Maybe it's not sufficiently well-drained. Maybe I should just ignore it and hope it withers away? I do hope I'm not just leading you down the garden path here. But you do have a reputation for being a bit of "garden don"! Best wishes. Ram Tan Vines123 (talk) 19:55, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, it does sound like quite a thorny problem. I'm afraid I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by my own greenery at the moment, though I do know someone who's very knowledgeable on matters horticultural, and might be able to help.... A Welched Ode Tulip
I see leaves shrivelling already. Maybe it's been stifled by cat pee? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:27, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Hmm ... "sense" or "scent" ..? — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:50, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, GG, you've smelt a rat. You know how bad my smelling spelling is. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:55, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Could you have been using the wrong code? — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:59, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
PS wonder who Martin Flower is? — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 12:03, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Answer:[10] — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 12:05, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
A-ha! I thought maybe Herbie's younger brother?? It's a horticultural enigma. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:07, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Some cute animals for youEdit

  Thank you for being here
Thank you PCW for you diligent, sane, presence in this crazy place. When people can't tell a rodent from a sea-slug, their edits need to be watched carefully. Thank you for watching my user page. (It's reminiscent of something we saw before, but this time coming from Perth, Australia, not Zaragoza.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:19, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Thankyou, it's kind of you to say so. It seems sea slugs can be easily confused with other animals - this one (rather cute, indeed) has been said to resemble a kite-flying cow..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
"Dylan is fast asleep - as usual". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
A beautiful animal, and what an amazing taxonomic similarity. (Not to mention the wikipedia relevance in that kite is spelled C.I.T.E.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 02:17, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Lilium toxicity to catsEdit

Etesp2 added more or less the same material about Lilium toxicity to cats to other Lilium species articles. The addition was well-meant, but your reduction at Lilium regale was valuable; if you have the time and energy you might copy it elsewhere.

By the way, the correct citation for one of the references used is:

<ref>{{Cite journal |last1=Fitzgerald |first1=K.T. |date=2010 |title=Lily toxicity in the cat |journal=Topics in Companion Animal Medicine |volume=25 |issue=4 |pages=213–217 |doi=10.1053/j.tcam.2010.09.006 |pmid=21147474 }}</ref>

Peter coxhead (talk) 19:25, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Thankyou Peter. I had noticed Etesp2's edits to other Lilium articles, but hadn't had the mental energy to do anything about them, partially because I felt that further adjustments were needed at Lilium regale - though this will now be easier, thanks to your providing of the proper cite format (I've never got round to understanding some of the template parameters involved in citing journals - "doi" for example has always remained a mystery...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:51, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Hey, PaleCloudedPussycat ... just to let you know ... Cat mentions only "Easter lily (Lilium longiflorum)". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
...the cat article is obviously incomplete - no mention at all of serious irritants such as parrots... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:58, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
"My boyfriend has his ears removed to look like a parrot" Martinevans123 (talk) 23:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Well he's obviously mad - everyone knows that parrots have huge ears... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
I feel it's only a matter of time before some idiot takes Ted Richards (human parrot) to DYK. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Hey, long time no clouds, Paley! "Happy Easter!!"Edit

  Some Easter Lead Belly for you!
"Pasg Hapus! ... Happy Easter to you!"
Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 27 March 2016 (UTC)}
Thankyou Martin. A nice trad tune. Yes, my editing has been a bit disrupted of late - a consequence of having to move house. People say that it's stressful, and I don't disagree. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Well, as suggested, here's Mr House, and I always find him very moving.Martinevans123 (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm tempted to move to a cathouse - that might get my "sockets jumping" again... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Mark DoyonEdit

Are you able to remove the template from the article? I can't, as I started the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:06, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I've removed it (I didn't realise I could, or I would have done so earlier). I don't understand why it was applied in the first place. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:25, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
These things happen. Maybe it's because of the date??!! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:39, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Some dim sum for you!Edit

  Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. North America1000 09:11, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Looks rather unhealthy to me. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  09:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

It's not so bad! Chinese food can be very nutritious. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Agh! ... and in South Vietnam dogs are a source of meat for humans.[1][2] Disgaceful b*sta*ds. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  15:09, 7 April 2016 (UTC


  1. ^ Wingfield-Hayes, Rupert (29 June 2002). "China's taste for the exotic". BBC News.
  2. ^ "Vietnam's dog meat tradition". BBC News. 31 December 2001.

15:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Rupert ought to know a good meaty snack when he sees one. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:39, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Love the accent [11]. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Wow Filipino R&B!! Pretty hot. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC) ...and here's a Gigantic Raft I found earlier.
Well thankyou everyone - for the food (I am underweight, or so I'm told....), the chat, the esoteric formatting (I can't fathom how the "#As food" link works, Gareth....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 01:01, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Sorry PCW about that ... try it now.— Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  08:23, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Ah yes, much better! (I didn't realise it was an error - I thought you'd done something terribly advanced that I just hadn't encountered before!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 13:28, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Who? Me? Wishing you a great weekend! — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  13:42, 9 April 2016 (UTC)


Shocked!! Why have French toast when you can have English, yes?? Some of us still find Nigella's French lessons most appealing!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

I suppose I'm still affected by the first time that information was added, when it seemed a rather ridiculous tidbit of information... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:12, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Now I thought you'd like that! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 14Edit

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Dorset OoserEdit

Hello! As someone involved in WikiProject Dorset I just wanted to let you know that a relevant article, the Dorset Ooser, is currently undergoing FAC if you would be interested in taking a look at it and offering your opinion. Best, Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. If I have time, I'll take a look. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:31, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Nice article! Although that doesn't look like a photograph, does it!? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
It just needs a bit of sepia tone adding... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:49, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
I thought the face looked familiar. Those horns are the real deal aren't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:04, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

The West Country ChallengeEdit

Hi, Are you going to join in at: Wikipedia:WikiProject England/The West Country Challenge. I'd particularly appreciate your help with getting the right things included in the core articles & missing articles lists at this stage as we are still preparing for the contest.— Rod talk 20:39, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about this. I'm a bit short of time at the moment (moving house for the second time in 2 months), but I'll try and input a bit. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:41, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Wikipedia:WikiProject England/The West Country Challenge will be run from August 8-28. A chance to win £250 as well! If contests aren't your thing we welcome independent contributors too. If interested sign up at participants. Cheers!♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:53, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank You!Edit

Thank you for fixing my peony edit. Seems the order changed some time ago and the information is inconsistent. The original was indeed correct my references were not. Thanks for double checking.

Jeremye77 (talk) 20:34, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks. Classifications seem to be always moving around, like botanical musical chairs... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:06, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Bridport Info Box ImageEdit

My one, in my view is much better than the previous one. It is much more updated and of better quality, it's not hazy, look at the larger image. Also the current one which I updated looks pixelated in some areas plus it was taken quite a long time ago. Thanks for letting me discuss this. P.S Sorry if my words sound like I'm angry or annoyed. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MajesticEli (talkcontribs) 15:12, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I disagree; the atmospheric conditions of your image are hazy and this tends to make the image appear blurred when viewed at thumbnail size. However please discuss this at the Bridport talk page, not here. Thanks. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:22, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Looking back at both on the revision, without looking at the larger image, just the thumb image, I can see what you mean, I will try again sometime maybe with a better image, Sorry. Thanks for responding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MajesticEli (talkcontribs) 15:41, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Would it be okay to put the image somewhere in the article in the future? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MajesticEli (talkcontribs) 15:43, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Images in articles should illustrate parts of the text. Currently the article is quite well furnished with images, except for the culture and transport sections, so really it would be better to produce images that can be used to specifically illustrate those. However, if you are not already aware, there is always scope for adding images to Commons, which is a general repository for images. I have edited your image's categories so that it now appears on the Commons page for Bridport (and you can see the 'blurred effect' more obviously there, in comparison to all the other images). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Okay, Thanks. I will work on other Articles based around Bridport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MajesticEli (talkcontribs) 16:12, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
If you're based in Bridport, you'll be well placed to catch things occurring on specific days, so why not take photos of some of the events in the town? Such images could be added to the article to illustrate the culture section - read the section to get an idea of what could be illustrated. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:27, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Bridport Info Box Image OutcomeEdit

I just want to paste this in italics on your talk page, unless you don't see it.


I have looked at both images and in commons. It is disappointing how few worthwhile images there are in commons. Neither IMHO of the two in question are ideal. - 47461 has bunting, cars and street furniture distracting from the essentials and is a small file not capable of enlargement. Bridport in 2016.png looks hazy, not perhaps because the image is hazy or out of focus, but likely because it was taken at a time and on a day (last Saturday) when conditions were not ideal, or alternatively the levels are such that there is not enough contrast. It would benefit from cropping to remove some of the area on the left taken by a bush and if re-taken careful positioning to remove the nettle that crosses the buildings. A view of the town from a vantage point is useful. On balance the status quo anti should be kept until an improved version of the new image is available. It is nice to find someoneUser:MajesticEli who cares enough to go out and take good images.SovalValtos (talk) 22:32, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

My ReplyEdit

Thanks User:SovalValtos for letting me know, I will try again sometime. I'm glad you agree the vantage point is useful, and I plan to take a photo like it in the future. Thanks User:PaleCloudedWhite for responding to my comments and engaging in this debate. I hope to work with both of you.

My Response to YouEdit

Just wanted to let you know about the outcome. I will continue editing Bridport, as well as adding new information and possibly new images, but for now the 'debate' on the info box image has been settled and you won it, Congrats. Sorry for the 'conflict'.

  The Socratic Barnstar
Awarded to User:PaleCloudedWhite for your extremely skilled and eloquent arguments towards keeping the current image on the Bridport article info box. MajesticEli (talk) 09:44, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, although you don't have to apologise for what you call 'conflict' - disagreements and discussions are how Wikipedia tends to operate. I also prefer not to think in terms of winning and losing - the only real concern should be getting what's best for articles. But anyway, thanks. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Paley ParkEdit

  Paley Park Award
A Paley Park For YOU. Hafspajen (talk) 13:07, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Sorry, couldn't resist ... but Marty... I love you just as much. --Hafspajen (talk) 13:08, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Hafs. Sorry for the delay in replying - my current work schedule means I am away from the internet for days at a time, then when I reconnect I'm often too tired to properly engage at first. Also, I got distracted by 'Boobgate'... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:44, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

"Boobgate, my arse!" And we said "No, Threesie, No!" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
"Call me neurotic, but whenever I see a pair of obviously augmented breasts, I get paranoid that she’s a terrorist and that her ta-tas are wired to explode at any second. I feel much safer around real ones."[12] - so says "Cliff" (wired for an explosive sound, obviously), aged a mere 26.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:29, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Well, he ought to know. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:25, 8 September 2016 (UTC) p.s.don't call Cliff "neurotic" unless you want to end up in court.
He was much less confrontational before his image change... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:49, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Also... while you're here, I wonder could you help identify this plant, this plant or this plant. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:59, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

The first one looks like Foeniculum vulgare 'Purpureum' (commonly known as purple-leaved bronze-leaved fennel), the second is Acanthus mollis (commonly known as bear's breeches), and the third is, erm, out of focus; I think I recognise it - more as a weed than a cultivated plant - but can't think of a name... perhaps Sminthopsis84 could help? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Wow amazing! This beats Wikipedia:Reference desk/Gardening, I must say. A thousand thanks. Here's a better one of that third one. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:26, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it is the plant that I usually regard as a weed - albeit quite attractive, and not a nuisance. My guess is it might be Linaria purpurea, commonly known as purple toadflax, though again perhaps Sminthopsis84 can confirm? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:54, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks so much. How ever could I reward you? If you bump into my dear old friend Dickie "Touch" Tingles, tell him to pass you that White Fiver that he owes me! "Chuffer"Dandridge123 (talk) 16:04, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
I'm a gardener, so any soiled notes will do... "milky bellflower" (talk)

(Daintily manoeuvering around the scatological breeches etc. above) Sorry, no I don't know what kind of caterpillar that is there. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:59, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

How did you know about the caterpillars?? I can't even see any in that photo! But there were quite a few. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Oh, caterpillars are everywhere - even inside pianos... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:27, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Ah-ha! But they wont follow me into this wardrobe as it falls off a cliff into the English Channel, will they! Phew... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 13 September 2016 (UTC) " 'ere, Paley, me ol' china, I 'ad one of them giant centipedes in the back of me vivarium the uvver nite...."

Precious anniversaryEdit

Three years ago ...
... you were recipient
no. 593 of Precious,
a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:33, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Gerda. (Though I doubt I deserve any kind of award, as my editing is somewhat part-time at the moment...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:23, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Four years now, and it's forever, - sit back and enjoy reading. I heard a great concert today, details on Martinevans, and more will flow into articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
Five years --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

New article improvement drivesEdit

Check out the following new article improvement drives/contests. North America1000 11:50, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:The 10,000 ChallengeEdit

Hi. I've noticed the good work you do on here. I was wondering if you'd be interested in contributing to this ambitious British Isles challenge to bringing about 10,000 improvements to the UK and Ireland. The drive is fuelled by regional contests every few months. We will get to Scotland in the new year sometime. If you'd be interested in chipping in with the articles you improve please add your name to the participants and start adding your entries to the big list. Diversity of input will make it much more interesting to peruse! Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:29, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite, though competitions don't really have much appeal for me. Also, I'm virtually part-time on here these days, due to work commitments. But thanks anyway. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:06, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
I have been improving Dorchester, Dorset for the West Country Challenge. So I'm trying to do what the GA reviewer wanted: "How does the ONS differentiate between a dwelling and a household? Might be worth including very brief definitions in parentheses.", and you come along and revert my definitions. How would you describe a household in three words? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:29, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
I can see that you were trying to do what the reviewer wanted, but in my opinion your definitions were factually incorrect. Did you use ONS definitions? And please refrain from referring to my editing in a mildly derogative way; I didn't "come along" any more than you "come along" when editing any article. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:01, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Just want to add my complete support for PaleCloudedWhite's comments above. Any editor has a right to revert a "edit" which are factually incorrect, especially an editor with long-standing interest in Dorchester, plus there is no need for derogatory comments from Cwmhiraeth. David J Johnson (talk) 20:16, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, lets not make a mountain out of a molehill here. At the request of the GA reviewer, I added "(includes shared dwellings)" after the word "dwellings" and "(single family dwellings)" after the word "household". PaleCloudedWhite tells me that the second gloss is wrong and that's fair enough, but I thought his/her action in reverting the edit uncooperative. A cooperative edit would have been to substitute a better gloss. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:09, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
There is nothing uncooperative about removing something perceived as incorrect, though the reason that I didn't substitute a better gloss is because I didn't have time to study the ONS site to find their definition of dwelling and household. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 06:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC) soft and gentle as a sighEdit

Ah yes, dear Wendy ... one of my favorites. Good luck with the collection, Paley. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:41, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Sorry to hear about your old mate Burnsy. I was all settled down, as usual, to watch the non-thinking-man's-Bamber-Gascoigne, when I was told I had to "give my brain a rest" and watch Autumn Watch Live (from your neck of the woods) instead. So just spending a moment here before rushing back to the "live carcass cam". Alas, not much sign of any cute and cuddle wildlife yet. *sob* Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I'm a bit shocked. Thought he'd battle on for years. Only last week I was watching an old live performance in which he obviously really enjoyed himself. I know he smoked like a trooper but still. Maybe the botched lip surgery caused too much damage - the leaking filler went all round his body; his kidneys were affected so maybe his heart also? By the way, I now live in the county that boasts Angelina Jolie's new favourite accent. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:32, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
How confusing. Well, as I remember from my undergraduate days (and as Clifton's own Bob Dylan will tell you), the Derby accent is just the poor relation of the Nottingham one: [13]. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
Mr Burns on meeting Jimmy Savile while in the Big Brother house: "I hadn't slept in three days and there was no food, and when I opened the door I thought it was Barbara Cartland." PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Ooh, not that Mr Burns surely? But yes, I bet that was a great look with those chunky medallions. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:47, 25 October 2016 (UTC)


Dear PaleCloudedWhite, let me working. It takes time to built a list of Functional urban areas as identified by Eurostat. FUA has substituted the previous acronym of "larger urnban areas". I'm working on this list . Plese, let me work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robur.q (talkcontribs) 09:48, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Did you not look at the article after your first series of edits? The format of the table was disturbed (one column having no heading and almost empty), the list of areas was no longer alphabetical (with extraneous characters dotted around), and when looking at your edits, you seemed to be removing entries, yet you provided no explanation why. You should use edit summaries - at least then other editors have a better chance of understanding what you are trying to do. And in the meantime, please make sure that the article is legible after every edit you do - readers shouldn't have to wait days until you've finished everything (whenever that may be). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

The Challenge SeriesEdit

The Challenge Series is a current drive on English Wikipedia to encourage article improvements and creations globally through a series of 50,000/10,000/1000 Challenges for different regions, countries and topics. All Wikipedia editors in good standing are invited to participate.

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!Edit

 Hello, PaleCloudedWhite. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Season's GreetingsEdit

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Thankyou North, no doubt I'll even do some editing...  PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:50, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

All the best for 2017!Edit

Thankyou Gareth, you're very thoughtful. Hopefully I won't be needing those snowshoes up here in the Derbyshire hills...... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:44, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

... and there I was, imagining that your enjoying yourself somewhere on the South Coast. Silly me! Cheers! — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  10:19, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
I think I've given a few people that impression Gareth, probably due to my lifelong fascination with Dorset. But I grew up on the edge of the Peak District and now, after 25 years in Greater London, I'm back 'oop north'. I still go back to London for work, but looking to reduce that and eventually wave goodbye to it. Much better to drive to work over green hills and wild moors! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:35, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Always feels good when one gets back to one's roots. I am pleased for you. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  10:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
'eh lad? did someone say Derby, me duck?? 'Ey Up me duck!! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:41, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
That is terrific, Martin and he's new to me. Lyrics are superb. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  10:49, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Oi! Paley, me ol' china ...Edit

Fanks. Does Santa's drop-in centre have any men in white coats? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:02, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
The usual touch of brilliance from Liz and the lads. Fortunately we have a nurse and we're limited to .... books and water Martinevans123 (talk) 23:20, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Wot, nuffink to "pick me up when I'm feeling down", me ol' china(town)? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:41, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Wow, where do you find em?? Amanda Lear for GA next? I prefer a bit of Phil and Co. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:47, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it's hard times indeed if Phil and Co. can't bring a few smiles to people's faces.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:25, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Wow, quite a shock. Whichever he was, he had an amazing career. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:42, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Crikey! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:48, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry, merry!Edit

From the icy Canadian north; to you and yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)  

Thanks! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:06, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

United Kingdom dashesEdit

Hi PaleCloudedWhite. Thanks for your comment, but en dashes – with spaces before and after – are used to separate clauses in sentences in British English, not em dashes with are mostly found in US English. My corrections, therefore, are correct and I would ask you to leave them as they are. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neilinabbey (talkcontribs) 21:44, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

I have replied at your talkpage. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:49, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

I have added a further reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neilinabbey (talkcontribs) 22:05, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Deaths of Carrie Fisher and Debbie ReynoldsEdit

I've nominated Deaths of Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds for a speedy delete; if it's contested, as seems likely, I'll probably nominate for AfD. Will keep an eye to make sure the death details aren't culled from the Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds articles in the meantime. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 10:34, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

It's not so much the joint deaths article that I object to - although a bit distasteful, it may prove to be allowable under WP notability criteria - but the removal of all info from the individual article(s) into it. These are individuals who led lives that meant their deaths are significant in their own right, independently of each other, and they should be afforded the respect of treating them as such, regardless of whether or not we also have an article on the media commenting on the closeness of their deaths. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:48, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
100% agree. But the retention of the relevant information in their own articles makes the new one redundant. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:33, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
You have a point. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:39, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for your interest but in case you don't know it, including a quote said in another language is allowed if it is translated. Concerning Suede, I gladly withdrew the "hailed" word and replaced it by "namechecked" per wp:STICKTOSOURCE. Carliertwo (talk)

See you at ANI. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:09, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) What an ironically suitable name for an album. Anybody need any encouragement for a really hot debate? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:25, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
So, Carliertwo, I see that an admin has blocked you for 48 hours for edit warring and "textbook battleground behaviour". I hope that you are able to learn from this and adopt a more collaborative approach, otherwise events are only likely to be repeated. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:48, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Rollback grantedEdit

Hi PaleCloudedWhite. After reviewing your request for "rollbacker", I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

  • Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
  • Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
  • Rollback should never be used to edit war.
  • If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
  • Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:Administrators' guide/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! Biblio (talk) 18:22, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Thankyou. I'll be suitably cautious in how I use it. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:35, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Congratulations Cissie, well deserved. Love, Ada. David J Johnson (talk) 18:53, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Kenneth Williams editEdit

Re. 'Removed unnecessary editorializing' I have not undone this edit but I feel those extra few words tie the statement into the rest of the article!Tad102 (talk) 01:10, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

The words add no information but they do unnecessarily direct readers into following a certain opinion. The readers have already been informed how much Williams was paid for each Carry On film, and if they want to feel surprise when subsequently reading how much his estate was worth, then that's up to each individual reader. As far as I am concerned, the size of Williams' estate is not at all surprising, given his well established prudence over financial matters and the large amount of work he did - not only in the Carry Ons. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:16, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Well you may not find the size of William's estate surprising but I did, and other would too, and it is an additional piece of information about this actor!Tad102 (talk) 14:10, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Williams complained in his private diaries that he was poorly paid for his Carry On films. But I don't see why this premise is "notorious". The value of his estate is a simple fact -it can speak for itself. Or do you have some kind of vested interest in righting a great wrong here?? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:53, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make here; the addition of one sentence to a page mentioning a modest fact, about that individual is the only 'point' one is trying to 'make here!' Tad102 (talk) 16:54, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
One further point for the owner of this talk page, in future you may be so advised to use the following template highlighting the need for a citation rather than simply undoing someone else's contributions . "[citation needed]" Tad102 (talk) 16:54, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
What's your source? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Tad102, you state that you found the size of Williams' estate surprising, and that is absolutely fine and I have no quarrel with that. However, your own surprise does not provide a reason for trying to push other readers in the same direction. That is my point. The article can state the size of Williams' estate without any kind of "well who would have thought it" preamble, and readers are free to find it surprising or not according to their own inclination/knowledge. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:36, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I didn't realize that there were such strict rules as to how to present a piece of information on this site, and that every fact had to be displayed with as few words as possible in case one risks leading readers into some kind of emotion!Tad102 (talk) 23:34, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
See WP:NPOV. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:15, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Vivien NevesEdit

 On 24 February 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Vivien Neves, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that when a full-page photograph of a naked Vivien Neves in The Times caused a sensation in 1971, it was being used to advertise a pharmaceutical company? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Vivien Neves. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Vivien Neves), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Mifter (talk) 00:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Pasg HapusEdit

Some Easter Gwyn Hughes Jones for you
"Pasg Hapus! ... Happy Easter to you" ... y geiriau. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:21, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Martin. Apologies for the slow response, recently I've been working like a dog - including over Easter...[14] PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I never had you down as a Leicester fan. How's your back? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:43, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Oh, my back is fine. I had some trouble with it in the past, but I decided not to be blubbery-eyed about it, got some professional assistance, and now I can do anything. (Btw, did you notice how that Sellers chap got the enunciation of that popular tune completely wrong?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Sheesh! Holy Bagwash, Paley. I'm all Easter Egged out. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of PuddletownEdit

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Puddletown you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria.   This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Casliber -- Casliber (talk) 09:40, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Dark HedgesEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Dark Hedges at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! David Eppstein (talk) 23:58, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Dark HedgesEdit

 On 11 May 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Dark Hedges, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Dark Hedges tree tunnel, a popular tourist destination since it was used as the King's Road in Game of Thrones, might not last twenty years? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Dark Hedges. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Dark Hedges), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Mifter (talk) 04:38, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

The Zen Garden AwardEdit

  Zen Garden Award for Infinite Patience
...for the GAN process of Puddletown...sorry for being a stickler. I reckon it'd go alright at FAC and there are bunch of folks who'd be keen to comment (iridescent, SL93, and Rodw come to mind). cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the mention. Although I've visited Puddletown I have little expertise in this area. The article is lokking good but on a quick scan I'd like to see a little more about the bowl barrows and round barrows on the heath (A search of National heritage List for England shows 78 entries including ancient monuments which don't seem to be included, although the article says there are 56 listed buildings). Islington House (Grade II*) also appears to have some interesting history. Waterston Manor is wikilinked on the 3rd or 4th mention. The Church of St Mary (Grade I) would be worth its own article. Happy to look further if that would be helpful?— Rod talk 06:55, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the patience award, and the review. I don't mind people being sticklers. I hadn't considered FAC though I might now, though the article needs other improvements - I know more can be added on demography and Domesday. There also used to be a 'Rhododendron mile' in Puddletown Forest, which was quite well known locally and mentioned in several sources, though it was cut back a few years ago and I'm not sure if it has been allowed to regrow. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:48, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
wow, fascinating to be growing them down there. Yeah agree about those tweaks, look once done I think it is a good chance at FAC. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:04, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Mainpaging one's articles is fun. One can go around waving one's phone about shouting, "look what I did!" to all and sundry....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:17, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
I don't have internet access on my phone so I'll take your word on that particular pleasure, though it is rewarding to get stuff on the main page, and if my photo of Puddletown gets to appear, I might mention it in passing to my parents, who would probably be interested. But I think the main satisfaction for me is simply that of sharing with others something that I find interesting - the classic human desire to say, "have you seen/heard/felt/tasted etc. this?".... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 05:39, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
As a comparison, you might want to look at (and comment on) Jerome, Arizona, which is at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jerome, Arizona/archive1. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:17, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of PuddletownEdit

The article Puddletown you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:Puddletown for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Casliber -- Casliber (talk) 04:01, 17 May 2017 (UTC)


  The Original Barnstar
Awarded in recognition of your continuing work to improve Dorset related articles and in particular your efforts in bringing Puddletown to Good Article status.--Ykraps (talk) 09:32, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi PCW, congrats on getting Puddletown through GAN and thanks for continuing to fly the flag for Dorset. If you are considering taking to FA, one thing worth a mention is the building of a section of the Dorchester bypass between Bere Regis and Stinsford (built in the late 90s?). Before that, all traffic to Weymouth and beyond came through Puddletown. I used to drive passed those rhodedendrons a lot but because of the new road, alas, no more. I cannot therefore say whether they are still there but can confirm that they were spectacular! Best regards--Ykraps (talk) 09:32, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Ykraps. I had previously avoided the whole GA/FA arena because I thought it might squeeze articles into a particular 'shape' that I didn't necessarily agree with. Also I like to potter around editing what I feel like, without any pressure to do this or that, so I've avoided the more competitive or structured elements of the project. But when Dorchester was nominated for GA—not by me, though I'd done a lot of work on the article—and the reviewer said it wasn't far off being FA, I thought maybe I'd been over-egging potential problems, so started having a bash. Besides, if I don't nominate these articles I've been working on, someone else might! Bridport, Blandford, Shaftesbury, Littlebredy and Kimmeridge are probably in a similar state to Dorchester/Puddletown. With regards to Puddletown, if I were to prepare it for FAC I would probably add a transport section, which would cover the bypass. On Rhododendron Mile, this article in the Dorset Echo states that the rhododendrons were cut down because they were unmanageable and overgrown (the article uses a headline about the bushes having been cut down due to 'gay cruising', though this seems to have been a minor concern for the Forestry Commission). In the 1960s Ralph Wightman thought all the people coming to pick the rhododendron flowers might be considered a potential fire hazard, which might have been a factor, though I'm guessing that the reason given in the caption blurb to this image perhaps hits the nail on the head - Rhododendron ponticum is notoriously invasive and likely to be removed on that account alone. Shame though. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Well, who would have thought that sleepy Puddletown had such a vibrant gay scene! It may have been one of the reasons but I believe there is a countywide trend for the removal of non-indigenous species, particularly if they are invasive, as you say. A few years ago they stripped all the bamboo and rhododendrons (sorry, my mistake) from Hengistbury Head (planted by Harry Gordon Selfridge, I believe). One thing you might want to consider, if nominating for FA, is using Historic England for listed buildings [[15]] as British Listed Buildings is normally considered non-RS. See Waterston Manor for example.[[16]] --Ykraps (talk) 12:44, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
For articles generally I've started using Historic England rather than British Listed Buildings, though it's less easy to use when looking for all the sites within a parish - the search results throw up listings in other parishes (because somewhere within the listing text they contain the word of the parish being searched), and there are duplications (e.g. if a building has a general listing and a listing on the 'at risk' register). So every search result has to be inspected one item at a time. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:47, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Yeh, it's a bit of a fag. I'll put it on my list of things to do on a rainy day. There's one due shortly, I believe! :).--Ykraps (talk) 04:50, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Puddletown imageEdit

Hi, to be honest, I thought it was a great hook but a boring image. That's why I put it in the "quirky" slot to end off the set on a high note. Yoninah (talk) 20:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

@Yoninah:I didn't realise that slots had characteristics. From your reply, it seems that images are included according to the discretion of the prep builder. Would you consider any of the images below to be interesting enough for inclusion? They are all images of human structures, that I have taken myself. I am curious if it is the type of image I produce that you do not care for, or just the Puddletown one. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:52, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Dear PaleCloudedWhite: Yes, images are chosen at the discretion of the prep builder. We also try to vary the images in succeeding sets – e.g. person, nature, building, abstract, etc. I think the images you posted here are beautiful, and I encourage you to continue submitting freely-licensed images with your DYK nominations. (If you look at Template talk:Did you know/Approved, you'll see we have a dearth of images to choose from at this time.) But I just felt the image submitted for Puddletown, which looked like the side of a building, was not the most interesting one, especially at thumbnail size. And at the time I was desperately looking for a "quirky" hook (see WP:DYKSG#J7), and your hook fit the bill. Yoninah (talk) 08:06, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
@Yoninah:Thankyou for explaining your rationale, and for the link to the guidelines page. I decided to use the Puddletown image partly because I just wanted to have a go at a hook with an image, but also because I thought the image of cutesy cottages alongside a hook about the peculiar name might be an interesting juxtaposition that intrigued readers. However I agree that it works less well at thumbnail size, and seeing as much of Puddletown looks different to the image, I have not been arguing to have the image included. I asked the question because it is useful for me to know how the DYK process functions. Do lead hooks generally have a particular tone, and if so, should I only add images to that type of hook? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:45, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

DYK for PuddletownEdit

 On 1 June 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Puddletown, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after a long official debate, Puddletown stopped being Piddletown? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Puddletown. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Puddletown), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:34, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2017Edit

You are invited to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects throughout the month of June as part of the fourth annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign. Feel free to add new and expanded content on the project's Results page. Happy editing! ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:24, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Dorset/MapEdit

Hi PCW, thanks for updating the project's map. I had it on my list to do but then I too started to wonder about the sizes. Do you recall why the icons were given different dimensions in the first place?--Ykraps (talk) 17:30, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ykraps. I can only assume that larger icons had been given to more significant settlements (Dorchester, Bournemouth etc.). I've still retained a size difference, but now it's more subtle. I kept the Dorset FA icon as pretty large, but think that if/when the map fills up, it might be better to push it to the side or - metaphorically speaking - into Lyme Bay, where it won't interfere with other icons. I'm not sure that the Jurassic Coast GA icon should be shown in Devon, but when I was fiddling around with the icons I ran out of mental energy before deciding if there was anywhere better to place it.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:49, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
I think the Dorset star is currently at the geographical centre of the county, which makes sense, but I'm not against moving it if it interferes with anything in the future. The Jurassic Coast icon could go at the other end or on the Dorset/Devon border but then those locations might interfere with the Old Harry Rocks and Lyme Regis articles later on. I guess anywhere along the coast would do at a pinch. It's a shame the icons don't reveal the article names when you hover over them, then the positioning would be less of an issue.--Ykraps (talk) 20:43, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree it would be nice if the icons had labels that appeared upon request; there might be a techie person somewhere who could help find a way to achieve it. Maybe there's a noticeboard somewhere for asking that sort of thing? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:01, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
This has been done by User:WOSlinker following a short discussion at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Template_parameters. The icons now also take you to the article if you click on them. You may need to purge the page before it works.--Ykraps (talk) 06:32, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
That's really great, thanks. It has also made it easier to see if coordinates have been muddled up - there were a couple that had been, so I've corrected them. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 06:49, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
Oops, I think that was me. With regards to the icon sizes, I've located this conversation[[17]] which suggests that, originally, the size related to the importance. If that is how the project wants to do it, Christchurch ought to be downsized and Jurassic Coast enlarged. Also, do you think this discussion should be moved to the project's talk page?

Jeremy BrettEdit

Thanks for amending the c#ck up that I made on the Jeremy Brett page - I had tried to go back and sort it out but was having no luck!

The show is called "Galactica 1980" - so that does need to be added to the title.


Pam-javelin (talk) 11:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


  The Green-fingered Barnstar of the Liffey Valley, to be sure.
Awarded in recognition of your continuing efforts in supporting the shy and retiring Flora of Ireland....[18] -- Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, although I haven't done much. Considering my general aversion to shopping centres, I'm wondering if your Liffey Valley link needs redirecting elsewhere......? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:15, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Ooh err, missus. I hear the Calder Valley is very verdant at this time of the year?? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 18 June 2017 (UTC) ....although "Flora of Ireland" might lead you elsewhere...
Oi, Paley, me ol' china. I 'ad that ol' dead Sid Jew in the back of me comedy club cab the uvver night. And a right ruddy letch 'e were, an' all! Strike a light!! Solomon B. Hilarious 123 (talk) 21:20, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Well Martin, I'm not sure whether you're trying to offer some sort of consolation, or if you're taking the piss. I've often not been sure to be honest, and you probably should know that a long while ago I decided to stop posting on your talkpage, because I could never be sure that you welcomed my interjections. Despite this, overall I am rather fond of you - as I am of other decent editors here - and I shall probably miss the positive interactions.
This is because, with regards to this recent furore, I have decided as a result to cease involvement in this website, at least for the foreseeable future. I have a very busy life outside of Wikipedia, and no longer wish to give my precious free time to a project in which other members encourage me to enter "discussion" with an abusive individual whose only motivation, it seems to me, is to use this site in order to feel superior. This person would never speak to me in that way outside of this website - they'd risk being punched in the face - and such conduct would never be tolerated in respectable paid employment, so why should I be submitted to it here? The answer is, I choose not to be, and if the WMF wishes for Wikipedia to only be edited by people who are prepared to be abused as reward for their involvement, well that's up to the WMF. For my part, it's goodbye - and thanks for all the fish. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:13, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Yes. I'm usually taking the piss. It's my way of offering consolation. All of your interjections on my Talk Page, over all the years, have been totally welcomed. I do hope you reconsider as you are a sensible, clever and thoughtful editor - and they often seem to be in short supply. But I understand your sense of frustration. Real life is not worth the extra stress. Honestly I don't know where to look. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:07, 29 June 2017 (UTC) of course, if you do stay around, I'll do my best to make out that you insulted my dead grandmother and tell you you're a lazy ignorant bastard"... I won't forget interjections like this in a hurry, you great steaming ninny...
I'd miss you, - every sensible one giving in makes it harder for the others. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:26, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Alas, comparisons with real life never seem to work here, do they. I suspect that for many editors Wikipedia becomes some kind of elaborate compensation mechanism or perhaps worse. Some editors seem to revel, for whatever reason, in adopting a "slightly brusque personna" often (it has to be said) from the safety of an obscure important sounding User name. But I think we all know what can be achieved by means of little gentle persuasion. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Cissie, we need you on here, especially for the Dorset pages. Please reconsider. Aida. David J Johnson (talk) 12:54, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Thankyou all for your kind words. After two months of not being involved, I seem to find myself getting drawn back into editing. It's difficult to stay away. But I doubt I'll be editing in quite the same way that I used to. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:56, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Oh no! Run, run! Run, Paley, while the majority of your faculties are still intact! x.. --Hillbillyholiday (talk) 20:24, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I used to run a lot as a teenager - anything from 400 metres to 3,000 metres and, in the winter, cross-country events. I wasn't bad - ran for my county - but these days I prefer to walk, preferably with a camera at the ready.
Recent events here mean I won't be editing like before; it is obvious to me now that the WMF (unlike most respectable organisations) isn't interested in the welfare of its volunteer workforce, so instead I shall take care of myself. On that note, someone once commented that I was "spiky underneath" - I shall probably be more inclined to show that side.
Btw, I think these 'Hot Lips' look less pornographic than your example......... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:10, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Arr, too bloody roight. Ain't inerrested in content neither. Look forward to seeing this spiky side, anyhow. [19] --Hillbillyholiday (talk) 21:28, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Welcome back to the cosy and gentle world of Wikipedia. I too can't think of a better use for an Oxbridge education. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:36, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Thankyou darling. As an old comedian stated in his diary, "I kept my countenance". PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:07, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

"....'ere Paley, me ol' Derbyshire china, I 'ad one of them Saudi lady drivers tailgatin' me Jeddah Uber Taxi the uvver nite! Blimey, what a blinkin' liberty!! Comin' over 'ere... nickin' our taxi ranks!!" etc., etc. -- Sheik Yerbouti 123 (talk) 21:48, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Well, with international cabs you never know what kind of service you're going to get.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC) "you go on ahead while I give these two a lift"
Ah yes, unmanicured fishfingers! I've 'ad it 'ard, I tell you, 'aaaaard. -- Zsa Zsa 123 (talk) 21:18, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Dorset dialectEdit

Hi PCW, I'm currently trying to knock this article into shape, and I vaguely remember a conversation you and I had on the subject (although I am unable to find it) in which you referenced some information about its distribution. If you have any spare time, perhaps you could take a look and see if there's anything you can add. Also what are your thoughts about a possible merger with Glossary of Dorset dialect words?--Ykraps (talk) 18:59, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Ykraps, apologies for the delay - I've been a bit disenchanted with Wikipedia recently - but I think the conversation you're referring to was about Wightman's comment (in Portrait of Dorset) about the Melcombe Bingham / Bingham's Melcombe area (commonly referred to as Hartfoot Lane). He says, "This must be near the geographical centre of Dorset. Hartfoot may be the correct name but "Arfurd" is nearer the local pronunciation—Dorset men do drop theirt aitches whatever the scholars may claim. In my youth I remember it as full of incredibly old people. The dialect was the richest in the county and the least contaminated by Devon or the New Forest." Wightman was born in 1901, and the first edition of Portrait... came out in 1965. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:36, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds like the conversation. I was looking to reference this sentence, "It was mainly spoken in the Blackmore Vale in North Dorset, not so prevalent in the south of the county and less so in the south-east, which was historically in Hampshire prior to local government re-organisation in 1974", which I have used in Dorset dialect#Origins and Distribution. Do you have anything that would help with that? I gathered that you'd had a disagreement of some sorts and had decided to take some time out. I am glad to see you back as you were (are?) one of the more active project members, particularly since Barret stopped editing. Take a break by all means but don't let people drive you away.--Ykraps (talk) 10:13, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Did you add that sentence yourself? It's slightly contradicted by Wightman's comment - though Hartfoot Lane is on the edge of the Vale. I'm wondering if the fact that Barnes and Young both wrote in dialect and both were from the Blackmore Vale might have influenced people's perceptions?
Would this source be considered reliable enough for the glossary article? I'm thinking probably not, though a casual perusal suggests they (The Echo) have researched it. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:29, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I added it myself. It's something I was sure was correct, and I thought it would be simple to verify later but now I'm having trouble. I'm not sure the source you've linked to will do; it doesn't seem to discuss the distribution at all. However, it is perfect for referencing the sentence about J K Rowling (something else I remember reading then couldn't find again) so thanks for that.--Ykraps (talk) 15:47, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Infoboxes on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject FranceEdit

Hi. I replied to your question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject France#Infoboxes. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 06:14, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!Edit

Happy turkey dayEdit

Northamerica1000 is wishing you a happy Thanksgiving. If you don't celebrate Thanksgiving, don't forget that "Any time is turkey time" (see image). North America1000 06:46, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter messageEdit

 Hello, PaleCloudedWhite. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Hardiness (plants)Edit

You make a good point; thank you. What if we reworded it to talk about the Arctic Circle? That's a little north of 66°33', so judging by Extreme points of Scotland, everything's within twelve degrees; however, I can't think of an easy way to say it, since "within twelve degrees" might require more explanation for people not familiar with DMS, and that kind of explanation would be out of place. Nyttend (talk) 02:36, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

@Nyttend: Of course, those particular sentences are unsourced anyway, and are only there as an introductory preamble to the hardiness ratings that the RHS has produced. I've reworded them before, after their original insertion (when they erroneously stated that Scotland experienced subtropical conditions). So it might be better just to simply state that for the climatic conditions found in the UK, the RHS has produced its own system of measuring/assessing hardiness, different to the USDA system that's used in the USA. The whole article probably needs an overhaul - I see it currently contains the line "Winter-hardy plants grow during the winter", which is vague and misleading. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:01, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Hm, interesting. I'd seen that source three provided no URL, so I assumed that it was some print publication; not until looking at it just now did I realise that RHS 2017 appears one section below. Thank you for catching that. Nyttend (talk) 12:42, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd DdaEdit

Thankyou Martin. I shall be having a very quiet 'festive season', just enjoying having time to myself and not having to work. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:23, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Heddwch ac ewyllys daEdit

    Compliments of the season
Wishing you all the best for 2018 — good health, sufficient wealth, peace and contentment 
 Cheers! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 18:08, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Thankyou Gareth. 2016 and 2017 have both been quite momentous years for me - in a good way - and maybe this will also be true for 2018. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:35, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!Edit

Thankyou Davey. That's a very large bottle! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:43, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Change od Jonghyun's article main pictureEdit

Please consider changing the main image of the english version of the article. It depicts a dark, sad image of the artist and promotes bad judgement about those seeking mental health support leading to stigmatized view about those coping with depression and doesn't relate with the profession of the artist.

If you can't find (suggestion, because I can not upload images using mobile) images of the event Healing Story by Jonghyun (Newsen media outlet images of the event are not copyright restricted and can be used without issue with credits. I suggest using the same image of the Korean version of the article.

This is very important. I hope you can help. As a depressed person and also as a fan, I count with your help to aid others to see a better image than this darkness connotation. Thank you. AuraAcqua (talk) 20:33, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I have made a comment at the article's talk page. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:12, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy New Year!Edit

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year}} to user talk pages.
Thankyou, North. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:03, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Discussion on image at Talk:EarthEdit

Hi PaleCloudedWhite, would you consider adding your thoughts at a discussion about the inclusion of a phylogenetic tree image at Talk:Earth#Phylogenetic Tree image removed? Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 13:52, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Happy St. David's DayEdit

Thankyou Gareth. I had forgotten it was Wales' national day tomorrow - despite having once lived in Wales and holidayed there numerous times. Well, I had some leek and potato soup yesterday, so obviously at least part of me somehow knew.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:52, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Delicious. Mmmm ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 11:00, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
On one Welsh family holiday when I was a child (I think we were staying in Manorbier), my brother bought a toy leek, rather akin to this one. We imaginatively named it "Leek", gave it a character and it became a favoured plaything. One year, on April Fool's Day, we carefully placed little Leek - with its smiley face upwards - on the floor of the bathroom in our house, then ran downstairs and uttered, in as convincingly serious a manner as we could muster, "Dad! Dad! There's a leak in the bathroom!" He ran upstairs, all concerned. How we laughed.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:35, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
That is a very funny story. I laughed out loud. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 16:43, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm glad it amused you. Of course, homophones are quite a rich vein for humour purposes. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:52, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Burton, DorsetEdit

Hi PCW, I left a request for an assessment at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dorset/Assessment but I'm not confident that there are any interested parties watching. If you get a moment would you reassess the Burton article for me. Thanks--Ykraps (talk) 08:32, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

I've had a quick scan. I probably would have given it a 'C', in the same way I upgraded Sydling St Nicholas to 'C' (I always reassess articles I've worked on myself), though the project's assessment page (which is on my watchlist - but I didn't notice your request for some reason) says that a 'C' article may be "missing important content or contains much irrelevant material", so it probably veers toward a 'B'. I think these things are just a rough guide. l'll have a proper look later. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:00, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
I find appraising my own work difficult, although I know it's a common and acceptable practice, so thanks for taking a look.--Ykraps (talk) 10:35, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Could you also look at Dorset dialect. Again, a lot of info has been added since its initial assessment. Thanks--Ykraps (talk) 10:42, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
I've placed Burton as a 'B' class, as it seems to fit the criteria on the project's assessment page. The article seems a little short, but I know it's often difficult to find masses of material for village articles. Perhaps it could be possible to find something about the geology? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:33, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
I saw that you made a few edits as well so thanks for those too. All I could find geology-wise was that it sits on a gravel terrace. I assume the bedrock is the same as the surrounding area but there doesn't appear to be anything on that either. I'll have a look in the local library when I next get an opportunity. Thanks once again.--Ykraps (talk) 06:04, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Dorchester Postcode areaEdit

Hello Cissie, Can I suggest you take a look at the Redlink "contributors" rather silly note on my Talk page. He seems to think he knows more than someone who lives there, or takes a great interest in Dorchester and Dorset in general. Best wishes Aida (David), David J Johnson (talk) 22:28, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Ooh Ada, you've been seeing red! Actually, I think they just believed that the postcode parameter in the infobox is for all postcodes covered by that posttown, whereas that's not my understanding of it. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:03, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Rohit's PlantsEdit

Hello, I was just wondering why my addition of Rohit's Plants to the list of individual trees was taken down. The list of individual trees is shockingly lacking in its coverage and I was trying to begin a movement towards making the list more complete. The plants in question are, in fact, trees (except for the orchid), and I believe that the fact that all of the plants are named Roplant certainly makes them notable. Thank you. Rohitsplants (talk) 21:52, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

My view is that "three small household trees and an orchid bought at Ralph's on a whim" are not notable. If you believe otherwise, find a reliable source that backs your claim. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:16, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Come on now, Paley. I'll have you know that "Universal Orlando has a Ralphs grocery store in the Beverly Hills area". This is the white-hot cutting edge of encyclopedic endeavour. Alan Tit 123 (talk) 22:52, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Mr Tit 123 (is that your real name, I wonder?), I appreciate that you might be an expert on testicle-shaped tuberoids, but in the arboricultural world I think your assessment of what's white-hot might be a little wobbly... PC White (hot)
Coming to your area soon!!! New and improved RadioCabs. Our motto: "We put the P into Park and Ride."
"'Ere mate I' ad that Nicky Nobbles in the back of me ecologically-sound cab the uvver nite....and a right crooner he turns arht to be, an' all!!" --Sid from Novi-Cabs (Our motto: "We put the Novi into Novi Chocs") 08:30, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
How times change. I took a ride with your firm in the 1970s, when your motto was "a free umbrella with every ride". 'Watch where you're pointing that thing!', I said. Pavel Clouded Whiteski

Invitation to WikiProject PortalsEdit

The Portals WikiProject has been rebooted.

You are invited to join, and participate in the effort to revitalize and improve the Portal system and all the portals in it.

There are sections on the WikiProject page dedicated to tasks (including WikiGnome tasks too), and areas on the talk page for discussing the improvement and automation of the various features of portals.

Many complaints have been lodged in the RfC to delete all portals, pointing out their various problems. They say that many portals are not maintained, or have fallen out of date, are useless, etc. Many of the !votes indicate that the editors who posted them simply don't believe in the potential of portals anymore.

It's time to change all that. Let's give them reasons to believe in portals, by revitalizing them.

The best response to a deletion nomination is to fix the page that was nominated. The further underway the effort is to improve portals by the time the RfC has run its course, the more of the reasons against portals will no longer apply. RfCs typically run 30 days. There are 19 days left in this one. Let's see how many portals we can update and improve before the RfC is closed, and beyond.

A healthy WikiProject dedicated to supporting and maintaining portals may be the strongest argument of all not to delete.

We may even surprise ourselves and exceed all expectations. Who knows what we will be able to accomplish in what may become the biggest Wikicollaboration in years.

Let's do this.

See ya at the WikiProject!

Sincerely,    — The Transhumanist   10:23, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Rodney LeggEdit

 On 29 April 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Rodney Legg, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Rodney Legg called the National Trust "an elitist club for art connoisseurs"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rodney Legg. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Rodney Legg), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:01, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very muchEdit

The RfC discussion to eliminate portals was closed May 12, with the statement "There exists a strong consensus against deleting or even deprecating portals at this time." This was made possible because you and others came to the rescue. Thank you for speaking up.

By the way, the current issue of the Signpost features an article with interviews about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

I'd also like to let you know that the Portals WikiProject is working hard to make sure your support of portals was not in vain. Toward that end, we have been working diligently to innovate portals, while building, updating, upgrading, and maintaining them. The project has grown to 80 members so far, and has become a beehive of activity.

Our two main goals at this time are to automate portals (in terms of refreshing, rotating, and selecting content), and to develop a one-page model in order to make obsolete and eliminate most of the 150,000 subpages from the portal namespace by migrating their functions to the portal base pages, using technologies such as selective transclusion. Please feel free to join in on any of the many threads of development at the WikiProject's talk page, or just stop by to see how we are doing. If you have any questions about portals or portal development, that is the best place to ask them.

If you would like to keep abreast of developments on portals, keep in mind that the project's members receive updates on their talk pages. The updates are also posted here, for your convenience.

Again, we can't thank you enough for your support of portals, and we hope to make you proud of your decision. Sincerely,    — The Transhumanist   08:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

P.S.: if you reply to this message, please {{ping}} me. Thank you. -TT


Dear PaleCloudedWhite, please may I suggest a slightly more magnanimous approach in Talk:Bastard brothers? ϢereSpielChequers 14:41, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

"Dear PaleCloudedWhite, may I suggest that, at the request of a partisan party, I retain all the irrelevant comments and attacks made against you by the other editor at Talk:Bastard brothers, while removing your one comment that pointed out that nobody of any academic rigour would ever conduct themselves in the way that they did/do?" User:A really nasty piece of work
I'm somewhat gobsmacked that you don't see that the problem is not whether you frequent drag bars (well done finding one in Dorset) but that you accused someone else of doing so. This is probably even more offensive coming from a gay person. Johnbod (talk) 14:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
But no-one accused anyone of "frequenting" anywhere? As I read it, the comment was about the tone of the preceding comment: "You remind me of a much famed great aunt of mine who always uses “we” to add hauteur to an argument that she knows is lost". Even if someone had accused anyone of "frequenting drag bars" why exactly would that be "offensive"? Whether you're gay, straight or whichever way inclined? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
PCW, I have restored your post here. All the best to you and Martin. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 17:58, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
"Then she whipped out her gun and tried to blow me away!@ Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Thankyou Martin and thankyou Gareth; you are both proper gentlemen.
Johnbod, thankyou for your comment; Martin has expressed my sentiment on this matter. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:48, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm probably not married......Edit

...otherwise I'd know how harmful I am [20]. I can hear the West Midlands Police galloping toward my door... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:48, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Blimey! "This 'pedia, is coming like a ghost 'pedia!" Martinevans123 (talk) 22:00, 12 September 2018 (UTC)"...too much fightin' in da mainspace..."
It's all such fun. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:34, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
No wait! It's more than fun - it's Fabb! [21] PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:54, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Wow. Do people who "seem to be missing persons from Coventry" always end up at Los Angeles Public Library? I see that this has been going on since February this year? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:45, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore." [22] PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
How very intriguing. There still seem to be some mental health issues here. Why else would someone continually talk in riddles?? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:31, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
I originally thought this IP was perhaps bona fide, but The More I See (The Less I Believe).... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:41, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!Edit

West CountryEdit

I'm not around for the next 48 hours or so, so if you could keep an eye on it.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:52, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Well I'm glad you gave them a 3RR warning, as I've a feeling I'll have to file a report, and we all know that admin likes warnings to be given first..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter messageEdit

 Hello, PaleCloudedWhite. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Walk on the Rosa gallica SideEdit

"Elly came from the Severan Dynas-tay
Hitch-hiked her way across the Emes-a
Rigged her roses on the way
Shaved her thorns and then he was a she
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,
Said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side."
-- Rosie Reed 123 (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC) [23]
Well now Rosie, I'm glad to see that you're back to performing at your 'intellectual peak'. I always walk on the wild side, though of course am careful not to get my head wet, as this might affect the working of my intra-cranial software... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:45, 5 December 2018 (UTC) p.s. is it just me, or is this "an effeminate youth reclining in purple and gold..."
Yes, sorry, it's just you. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:50, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd DdaEdit

Thankyou Martin. I don't know whether I'll get round to sending greetings to editors this year - I'm a bit whacked out mentally - so I'll send best wishes to you from here, just in case. (The Divine David clip that I link to at the top of the page - beneath the snowman - is good for a Christmas laugh). (Unless you're a German vegetarian, perhaps...?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:18, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
No worries, it's the thought that counts. Yes, I've already ventured to Divine David land. It is indeed lovely the way they dangle. Time for a party, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:38, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Gwin poeth sbeislyd i chi ...Edit

... gan yr hen Gymro; rwy'n gobeithio eich bod wedi cael gwyliau Nadolig gwych ac rwy'n dymuno 2019 heddychlon i chi!
That is Welsh and translates to:
Spicy hot wine for you from the old Welshman; I hope you have had a great Christmas holiday and I wish you a peaceful 2019!
Thank you for your excellent work on the 'pedia, but I am sad to read the first part of your reply to Martin.

Sincerely, Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:47, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Thankyou Gareth. I was going to learn Welsh once - when I worked in north Wales - but I left before making it a reality. Shame really - I've always liked the sound of it as a language.
Best wishes for the coming year! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

'ere Paley, me ol' plât llestri.... here's some handy role play for you to practice: [24], or ( we say at the Celtic Manor Resort tacsi rank)... chwarae rôl!! Martinevans123 (talk) 23:20, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Here's some convincingly acted "roll play" from just across the Severn .... I think they say, "break a leg"... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year!Edit

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year}} to user talk pages.

Thankyou, North. I wish you the best for the coming year. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:47, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

The Sustainability InitiativeEdit

Hello PaleCloudedWhite: An invitation for you to check out the Sustainability Initiative, which aims to reduce the environmental impact of the Wikimedia projects. If you're interested, please consider adding your name to the list of supporters, which serves to express and denote the community's support of the initiative. Thanks for your consideration! North America1000 10:31, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, North. Do you know what expressing support might achieve? I mean, is the initiative only going to operate if it gains sufficient supporters? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:18, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I was wondering, does this count at all?? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:23, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Pass the Saint Agur, please. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:40, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Well I'm sure there's plenty of that French stuff that will be pretty unsustainable come our longed-for 11th hour No Deal Hard Brexit fiasco. Although I hear that, fortunately, there'll be a "special place in hell" for all those escargots and odiferous cheeses if we get really desperate. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:29, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
"All that we hope is, when we go, our skin and our blood and our bones don't get in the way, making us ill, the way they did when we lived..."[25]. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:18, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
Ah yes, makes one proud to be British. Good old Uncle Boris. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:31, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


[26]. Sorry. Just venting. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:49, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure Sue, Grabbit and Runne will be rubbing their hands with glee. Pillock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co.?? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:11, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps the man in question could do a bit of rubbing himself - apparently it's really quite effective at making pain go away, and doesn't make one resemble a self-serving tosspot. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:15, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Personally I think a huge fake beard and eye-mask is a very fetching look and I'll be adopting it forthwith. Note: don't confuse him with this guy. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:19, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Required reading...Edit

... for all copy editors? There are occasions when a comma is required after the first two words, e.g. "In 2017, as in the previous year, Monty Don presented the show from Chelsea..."i.e. to contain a subordinate clause, but not always e.g. "In 2017, Monty Don presented the show from Chelsea..." Aaaaarrghhhh!!!! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:14, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

"Comma-rhea" is everywhere on Wikipedia, particularly when a sentence begins with "In [year]". Is it an age thing? Can't the youth of today say more than 2 words without pausing for breath? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:41, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
I'm sorry to say I think it may be a cousins in the dominions thang. Even the World's Greatest Leaders have to pause occasionally, y'all. [27] Martinevans123 (talk) 20:47, 13 February 2019 (UTC) ... here's a nice old-fashioned British comma for you (in, Longwarry, Victoria, naturally).
I think I've still got a "Corgi 462 Commer Van Co-op"[28] lurking somewhere in the attic, though I played with it so much as a kid, I don't think it could sell for anything like £450 - maybe 4.5p would be achievable.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Come the 29th March cliff edge Noel Edmonds fiasco mate, we'll need all the trucks we can get our hands on!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Maybe even Dave's favourite, the Mini 25, could be brought back into load-carrying service...? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Ah, for a moment, I thought you meant this Divine David. Your dear Dave makes Julian Clary look a bit like Vin Diesel, doesn't he. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 13 February 2019 (UTC) ... I mean, Davey... "No, he ain't a snack at all. Look, baby, he's the whole damn meal!!"
Yes, Mr Hoyle is a bit, er, eccentric. (Three commas!) I think it was Julian Clary who said, "The English like eccentrics - they just don't like them living next door" - how true. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:17, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, how very true. And I think may have been Ryan Davies who said, "The English aren't really eccentrics - they just don't like living next door to the Welsh." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Well, 24 years is a long time to live next door to Alys... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:50, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
omg, hahahahaha, I'm impressed. A punning stunt indeed. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:57, 13 February 2019 (UTC)


I have undone this edit, which has been discussed on the LGBT noticeboard. You may want to engage there before trimming again. I agree the quote is long, but the change you made simply made it look like a mystery as to why Navratilova was removed from the AA board. Either we go back to stating that her op-ed was considered transphobic by AA, or we quote AA saying the same thing. Thanks -- (talk) 22:09, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Changes to articles should be discussed at article talk pages, not WikiProject talk pages. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:13, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


Don't bother editing the Brexit article, Snooganssnoogans will revert you. He owns the article (WP:OWN). Just look at his talk page to get an idea of his conception of a collaborative encyclopedia. The only way to shut him up would be to make a consensus building talk, as I think that most people agree that the Brexit page cannot only rely on academic studies, but I cannot find the template. T8612 (talk) 01:46, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, this is the impression that I have been forming about this article. Of course, there's also ANI and Arbcom to deal with tendentious editing. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:20, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
*cough* CosmicRayReardon (talk) 23:47, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Wired UK article about Brexit Wikpedia pageEdit


I'm a journalist for Wired UK magazine and I'm writing a piece about the Brexit Wikipedia page. I see that you've been a really active contributor to the entry and would love to talk to you about it. Are you up for being interviewed for the piece?

You can find my email on my Twitter page if so.

Thanks, Matt — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrey445 (talkcontribs) 16:19, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your interest. I see from your contributions that you've only contacted me regarding this, and no other editors, though I haven't edited the article nearly as much as several other editors. So my question is, why pick me? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:56, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

The honest answer is that I am planning to contact other editors too, but I just wanted to fire off one request before I left work yesterday afternoon. The idea is to talk to a bunch of editors involved in this – I'm really interested in speaking to any editor that's up for talking to me. Mrey445 (talk) 08:43, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

What's your reason for wanting to write this piece - is there something in particular that you're wanting to explore? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:54, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm interested in how editors handle a topic that changes so quickly and is so dogged by potential bias. I don't have a particular angle really, I'm just interested to talk to editors about how they edit, the challenges they face, why they do it, etc. Mrey445 (talk) 10:01, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

The main challenge is the conduct of other editors. Lol. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:12, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
I would love to talk about that! Could you drop me an email? Mrey445 (talk) 09:59, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
I am reluctant because:
1) You might be one of the other editors
2) There would be a limit to what I could say beyond my own suspicions, as yet unverified by Wikipedia admin
3) My personal experiences with journalists/journalism haven't been good. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
That's totally fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to reply all the same. Mrey445 (talk) 15:40, 16 April 2019 (UTC)


Lyme Regis, etc. Please put discussion on the Talk page so others can join in if they wish. Bmcln1 (talk) 09:11, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

I have started a thread about this at WT:UKGEO. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 13:12, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Our discussion of Rees-Mogg.Edit

Hi PCW. I've at long last summoned the energy to take our discussion to WP:3. We'll see what they say. Regards JRPG (talk) 19:42, 27 April 2019 (UTC)


Hi, I see that a long time ago you reverted on this article when an editor started placing tags rather than correcting deficiencies. He seems to have come back for another try. I've tidied up for now but I do wonder what's going on there, and what may happen next. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:14, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Let's all be grateful he's not editing at this tree: [29]. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
Language? Language, Timothy! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 20:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the poor chap. Seems to have got his "panties in a bunch" (as our Colonial cousins might say) over something, doesn't he. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:46, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
You guys are a scream. ;-} Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:34, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
As ever. Apparently this Paley Chap is a "bit of a card". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Chiswick Chap. I remember that episode, though I feel I should add a disclaimer that just because I said something in 2012, that doesn't necessarily mean I would say the same again, should the same situation arise - 2012 is a wiki-lifetime away! From what I remember, the Tree article was completely rewritten around that time, and that other editor didn't like the rewrite (they weren't the only one, as I recall). There was edit warring and disagreement and the usual wiki-harmony that we all know and love. I can't remember how it was all resolved, if indeed it ever was. Perhaps the disgruntled editor is still disgruntled. Perhaps there are botanical errors in the article. It would seem a talkpage chat would be the best place to assess issues. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:46, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. I revised the article extensively and brought it to GA status in October 2014. I recall that adding a detailed definition and cited discussion of what "tree" meant, noting that it was not a botanically precise term, took most of the wind out of the wiki-warriors' sails. BTW he's just this morning been indeffed for other recent edits. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:59, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Whaley Bridge reversionEdit

Hi there. On balance, I will agree at the moment with the reversion of my edit on this article, although if the town remains in its current status for a lot longer, then a time may come at which it should be entered into the article on here. The town has been evacuated for three days already now, so it is hardly "breaking" news anymore. I will agree though, as I recognise it was a borderline edit although I also felt the use that, if anyone not knowing what had happened in the area, happened to visit the article and was planning to visit the town, that mention at the outset would alert them as opposed to a small section on the evacuation well down the article which doesn't actually reflect the nature of the town at the moment. Although that said, the point about it being a news event is also somewhat valid. aspaa (talk) 01:06, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Consideration should always be given to the fact that this is an encyclopaedia, not a visitor guide. In the context of the town's history the current event is not as significant as it may seem to people who watch the news. Obviously if the dam were to burst and wash away half the town, this would change somewhat. Please remember also that, generally, discussions about articles should occur at article talk pages, so that other editors can see them too. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 04:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Yes, broad articles are not to give undue weight to latest news applies. I would add, avoid any potentially biased soundbites in lead sections which you do generally too. As you can see from my concession below I don't bigot up my political correctness but certainly temper lopsided connotations.- Adam37 Talk 19:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)


Perhaps I contextualise too much. So you win. However I do have a point (often seen among contributors with a historic lens). The reason for which unexpectedly Surrey is the most wooded by % of land use is that it's shed its most urban third, instead if people are left to posit that it just so happens it's rich in woodland and omit its own motorways, pollution and allowing of Londonisation from 1800 to 1965 then that negates the truth. Like Lancashire it's a fair analysis to say "what is left of...outside of its offshoot adjoining city districts". There is a hard core Labour disposition to erode the green belt and which cites peacock statements like it's the most wooded and adds what's all that woodland for without thinking one jot how that statistic came about; using lies, damned lies and statistic, there's a hard core Tory dispoition to ignore the fact the many golf courses would be much better as crop fields or nature reserves so what green lungs there are to start to off set the M25 pollution aren't inclusive do not benefit everyone much as they should do.

I suppose it will do as a green credential but let's hope it's necessity isn't airbrushed. Well-considered academics would note the woodland fact has been counterbalanced by the scant woodland, hedges and fields left over today in the bit that's become London.- Adam37 Talk 10:44, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Hello Adam37. We as Wikipedia editors should merely state, in our own words, what the reliable sources state. It isn't our responsibility to provide a wider context for readers. A number of your edits have cropped up on my watchlist recently, and each time you have added unsourced information that seems to have come from your own ideas on what readers should know. Also, I don't know if other editors have commented on this, but I think your prose would be improved if you shortened your sentences and didn't try to say so much within each one, as otherwise the result tends to sound like stream-of-consciousness writing that sometimes is quite difficult to make sense of. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:33, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
That's because I like the Victoria County History series.- Adam37 Talk 15:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
To what are you applying this as an explanation - the addition of extra/unsourced information, or the use of long sentences that are more difficult to comprehend due to their minimal punctuation? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Pinging Adam37, for clarification of the above explanation. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Don't suggest I add extraneous stuff beyond A+B=AB logic or the immediately verifiable from multiple everyday sources. As you well know non-soundbite is the preferable style used of yesteryear and the intelligensia... Troll alert. Do not ping me.- Adam37 Talk 18:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

─────────────────────────How rude is that!. You do not deserve the kindness offered here by PCW. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 17:31, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes Gareth, quite rude, and inaccurate too. I wonder if the user sees themselves as belonging to "yesteryear" or the intelligensia....? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 06:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "PaleCloudedWhite".