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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/October 2009

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Archived discussion for October 2009 from Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates.

October 31

ITN candidates for October 31

Obama lifts America's HIV ban—HIV/AIDS in the United States

This has been welcomed around the world. "The Global AIDS Alliance welcomes President Obama's announcement today to lift the 22 year-old U.S. travel and immigration ban on those living with HIV/AIDS". Obama said: "22 years ago, in a decision rooted in fear rather than fact, the United States instituted a travel ban on entry into the country for people living with HIV/AIDS". "No major international AIDS conference has been held in the US since 1993, because HIV-positive activists and researchers were not able to enter the country". It doesn't seem to be happening until next year though... --candlewicke 16:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Is this the article? If so, I will support when slightly expanded.  Cargoking  talk  16:12, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
No, Ryan White Care Act, reauthorized by Mr. Obama on the same day, has nothing to do with the travel/immigration ban. It appears that the article HIV/AIDS in the United States needs to be updated, in particular this section. Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, Not really notable on an international stage --UltraMagnusspeak 17:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose--It's basically the US changing a law. It has international ramifications obviously as it affects travel to the US but does that make it notable?--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:54, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose--Thousands of laws are changed each year so i dont see what makes this one so special that it has to go up on ITN, esspecially when you compare it with other news stories of today such as TY Mirinae.Jason Rees (talk) 19:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Wow, wasn't expecting so much opposition... well some major law changes in countries have featured on ITN in the past including, for example, this example from last month. This is a fairly significant law change for any country (particularly after 22 years) and I would have thought its international effects obvious since anyone with HIV/AIDS is apparently not allowed to enter the United States? --candlewicke 00:46, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Though the U.S. is obviously an important and influential country, this is exactly the kind of news which feeds the argument that ITN is too America-centric especially since other important countries are also repealing the law while others are maintaining it. Nirvana888 (talk) 02:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Which countries? It would be interesting to know... I wasn't very aware that people with HIV/AIDS had such restrictions placed upon them... --candlewicke 03:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
To name a few: South Korea, China and Ukraine. See [1]. I do agree that this is an interesting piece of news though. Nirvana888 (talk) 03:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I would think that the law being changed in these countries would be equally worthy of the Main Page... --candlewicke 04:34, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Russia also restricts entry for people with HIV/AIDS. I find it hard to believe that if Russia, Ukraine, or S Korea dropped such a restriction it would even be discussed here. I would say the US (and maybe China) is more notable here because more people travel to the US. But this isn't ITN material.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:13, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Well it takes somebody to notice it and nominate it... --candlewicke 06:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment I could have supported this but it seems systematics bias debate has been regenerated. So I think we should avoid this item.--yousaf465' 08:23, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


October 30

ITN candidates for October 30

Question Time British National Party controversy (take 2)

Oppose. I know you put a lot of effort into this article, but on an international stage this is even less notable than your previous nom.  Cargoking  talk  09:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Strong Support. Things that are really only news in one country get covered here frequently, such as American Football and US politics --UltraMagnusspeak 20:53, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
It is at DYK now anyway, so presumably that's that? (I know it is the other way). MickMacNee (talk) 21:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

UK Youth Parliament House of Commons debates

Leaning towards oppose. Only debates occurred. If the Youth Parliament enacted any major laws, I would be more than willing to support, but just usage (even though there is controversy and it's the first time) causes me to lean towards oppose. SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Non-Latin internet

ICANN has voted to allow domain names to be registered in non-latin (eg Arabic, Chinese) scripts. This seems pretty important as apparently more than half of internet users speak a non-latin language (BBC). Relevant rticle seems to be at Internationalized domain name - Dumelow (talk) 15:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Big news. --Tone 16:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Support.  Cargoking  talk  16:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Strong support This is massive news. --Johnsemlak (talk) 20:17, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
"The Internet regulator ICANN approves plans to allow Unicode TLDs for the first time." Amazing. A stab at a blurb. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Big news Support.--yousaf465' 03:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Update is a bit short... Can someone expand it a little further? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Added a section. I don't know the history and hope (expect) that it will be fixed. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:34, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Nice work, Susan! Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:58, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah great work Susan, I was considering updating it myself but realised that I didn't know enough about computers or the internet to make sense of what was actually going on! - Dumelow (talk) 11:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
There's two of us! User:Kbrose took one look and fixed it all up so I passed on the ITN notification. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Hm, the wording doesn't give me the immediate impact of the event until I read the actual article...I can't think of an alternate wording, but perhaps mentioning something about how now non-Latin scripts can be included on the end? SpencerT♦Nominate! 03:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the current wording is quite cryptic to a layperson. It would be better if we mentioned non-Latin scripts but not sure how exactly—Does anyone have suggestions? --BorgQueen (talk) 05:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, the key to this item's notability is the use of non-Latin scripts in web addresses. The current blurb may say that but is incomprehensible to non-geeks.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Tweaked. How is it now? --BorgQueen (talk) 06:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Can we add a mention of Cyrillic script along with Chinese and Arabic? I'd say take out the 'for the first time' bit and add '(eg Arabic, Chinese, Cyrillic)'. Makes it more clearly notable.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
If we do that people will ask why we do not mention Hebrew, Japanese, Thai, et cetera, accusing us of having pro-[name anything] bias. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Ah probably true. Still, mentioning some affected scripts would make it seem far more relevant than saying simply 'non-Latin'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
It has been reverted by User:RockMFR. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Great. Now we've gone from having a headline relevant to billions of people worldwide to a headline relevant only to people with PhDs in Geekery. What was wrong with it before?--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:30, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I suggest you ask the question on his talkpage. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Done--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:16, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

The blurb was horribly incorrect. Seems the trend these days is to just put lies on the Main Page. — RockMFR 20:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you may state something like this: "ICANN approved that nations and territories may apply for the first time to obtain top-level domains scripted in their native-language alphabets." I think this would make sense to many more readers. Kbrose (talk) 21:58, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
The BBC article sourced begins with the following: The internet regulator has approved plans to allow non-Latin-script web addresses. Why can't we say something similar? What's 'horribly wrong' about it? It's certainly not a lie.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:46, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
That is clearly wrong. ICANN is not a regulator, and non-Latin web addresses in general are already allowed in some of the existing domains. The news here is that a country may now obtain a scripted TOP-LEVEL domain. Kbrose (talk) 22:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
OK, something like "ICANN has approved that nations and territories may apply to obtain top-level domains in unicode, allowing non-Latin scripts to be used."--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Most people don't know what unicode is, keep it simple. Kbrose (talk) 23:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Agree with that completely. I suggest we go with Kbrose's blurb.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
How about "ICANN allows nations and territories to apply for top-level domains scripted in their native-language alphabets"? GreenGourd (talk) 00:23, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:36, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks OK now. I think it may be about as good as we can get it in terms of emphasising notability, making it clear, and being technically correct. It certainly is understandable that at Wikipedia we want to be more accurate on web-related details than mainstream news outlets.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:13, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Only thing that needs fixing is the capitalization of Internet, we do consider it a proper noun and capitalize it everywhere on WP, as is the custom in all of the standards bodies that define the Internet. Kbrose (talk) 18:03, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:11, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

BP fine

The US Occupational Safety and Health Administration levies a record $87 million fine on BP for failing to make improvements to its Texas City Refinery following the 2005 Texas City Disaster. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 15:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

In what way is it a record fine? I couldn't find this incident in either the BP or the refinery articles. Tending towards oppose. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:56, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
It is the largest fine ever levied by the OSHA. I guess as it was announced today it hasn't made it into any articles yet but they can always be updated - Dumelow (talk) 17:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


October 29

ITN candidates for October 29

Crimes—"worst in existence"

"The conviction was the first under a Canadian war crimes law introduced nine years ago and followed an unusually complex two-year trial that involved hearings in Africa and in Europe." Support when updated; the article is at Désiré Munyaneza. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Support but update please.--yousaf465' 04:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. Rwandan Désiré Munyaneza is sentenced to life imprisonment for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes at his trial in Montreal. --candlewicke 03:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Mongolia's Prime Minister resigns

Support when the article expanded (as it is quite short) and updated further.  Cargoking  talk  21:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Sanjaagiin Bayar, (pictured) Prime Minister of Mongolia, resigns for health reasons. --candlewicke 01:02, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:04, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Guinea sanctions

The African Union and the United States impose a travel ban on Guinea's military junta leader Moussa Dadis Camara and 41 members of the junta. [4] Support when the article Moussa Dadis Camara is updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated. The EU has also done the same. --candlewicke 01:24, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:07, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Trade Deal

Curry Kills Cancer


October 28

ITN candidates for October 28

Chinese kidnappings

I remember there were pages of talks about putting Duggard case up (which didnt go up for good reasons). But i find this interesting. What do u guys think. 2k is a lot of kids. -- Ashish-g55 19:32, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Is the Duggard case the one found at Kidnapping of Jaycee Lee Dugard? That describes one child and this involves 2,008. I will support this one. One child may be kidnapped every day but 2,008 are probably not recovered. --candlewicke 20:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Ares I-X launch

Ares 1x launched successfully. strong support. -- Ashish-g55 15:46, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Update is currently too short. Support when expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:03, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what there is to update in this case; it launched, and that's all that we can get from any source. I mean, I don't see there being much to work with. We could go ahead and post a blurb ("NASA's Ares-I-X vehicle is successfully launched, marking the first test flight in the Ares 1 program"), but I'd rather wait for results.
Also, why the hell did they name it after the Greek god of war? Is there some hidden message in this? :P Master of Puppets 18:10, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Ares is associated with the Roman god Mars, which Ares is planned to eventually bring humans. -CWY2190(talkcontributions) 18:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
That's what they want you to believe. Master of Puppets 19:07, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
details about the launch most likely will not come for a while (if some sensor failed or whatever...). so i kinda agree that we wont find much more than the fact it got launched successfully for now. -- Ashish-g55 19:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Strong support - wondering why it isn't there yet. Hektor (talk) 22:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
The article is quite good overall. The update on the launch is two paragraphs, with three references (though substantially, it basically says the rocket launched successfully). Does that not meet the requirement?--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Expanded; posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:14, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

28 October 2009 Peshawar bombing

This is huge, this is bloody. I'm horrified. --yousaf465' 08:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Support when article is tidied up and expanded.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:12, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
The death toll has reached 80. Support - same as Johnsemlak.  Cargoking  talk  10:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Support once article is updated and expanded - Dumelow (talk) 11:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Expanded, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:03, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I've expanded it with all the info we've currently got. Posting as "A car bomb in Peshawar, Pakistan, kills at least 95 and injures more than 200, in the city's deadliest attack of 2009." Master of Puppets 15:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Wow, BorgQueen, you were thinking the exact same headline as me (pretty much). Want to tack on that "deadliest attack" bit? It's not exactly necessary, I guess... your call, any way. Master of Puppets 15:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:12, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Sweet. I'd take out that last item, but I know you love to remove it for main page balance... :D Master of Puppets 15:14, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually removing it will break the balance on my screen. Perhaps it looks different on yours? (which is not uncommon) --BorgQueen (talk) 15:16, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
The toll now stands at 101 and also something strange has happened, TTP has denounced the attack and said they don't target innocent women and children. They are partially correct,this bombing doesn't have any of their signatures. --yousaf465' 01:57, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll look for a source supporting that and add it in. Master of Puppets 02:15, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Done for both.--yousaf465' 02:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Mozambican general election, 2009

In Mozambique the Mozambican general election, 2009 occurs which will elect a parliament and a president - Dumelow (talk) 18:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:45, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Support when results are announced, and the article is given some make over.--yousaf465' 07:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Results aren't expected until nov 12 (WSJ), so I'll stick a note there in future events - Dumelow (talk) 09:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Un building attacked in Kabul

Well it seems to be a big attack. 4 hours and going on. --yousaf465' 04:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Here is the link Gunfire, explosions heard in central Kabul.--yousaf465' 04:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I will support when updated. Source says: "A Taliban spokesman claimed responsibility, saying it was meant as an assault on the upcoming presidential election. Later, a rocket slammed into the grounds of the luxury Serena Hotel, which is favoured by many foreigners." UN spokesperson says they have not had an incident like this before. --candlewicke 20:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Article is still missing I think.--yousaf465' 02:34, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Can you find it? --candlewicke 00:48, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Church of Scientology

  • I noticed that an admin added this item with no discussion at all, and was reverted by User:MSGJ. (Yes, some admins do add items without any attempt to obtain consensus...) The conviction appears to be significant though. Any supports? --BorgQueen (talk) 01:54, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Update is currently insufficient. Expansion and I will support. It seems pretty significant. SpencerT♦Nominate! 02:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
The article Scientology in France seems to have been updated a bit more. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Weak support It will create a bit of controversy. I think we should wait for more support.--yousaf465' 04:25, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Support I don't know how it will create controvery; I suppose Scientology may try to sue us. --PlasmaTwa2 04:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Included as "The Church of Scientology is convicted of organized fraud in France." I did a lot of expansion work on the linked section, so hopefully all goes well. Master of Puppets 06:49, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Nice work. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! If anyone needs me to do rudimentary expansion of articles like these, I'm happy to help; I've got spare time now and then. Master of Puppets 07:04, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
How about another conviction in France? :-D --BorgQueen (talk) 07:07, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Well we had something on windows 7. I still have my fingers crossed. Hopefully nobody comes and say "oh wikipedia is against Scientology". --yousaf465' 07:10, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Yousaf, we're not? Oh... Just kidding. :P And BorgQueen, I would, but I have to wake up in five hours to get to my first class. Seeing as I'm not asleep, I've got to work that in, too. Does tomorrow work? Master of Puppets 07:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I suppose so; I will try to work on it as well. Good night... --BorgQueen (talk) 07:24, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Angolagate

Key players in Angolagate got convicted. [5] The article needs some more details and polishing, I can do it if consensus supports. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:02, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Looking at the convictions and jail time given, I'm not too sure about notability...top jail time according to the article right now is 6 years. That just seems rather little from what at first seemed like an important event. SpencerT♦Nominate! 02:17, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
The people implicated—at least Arcadi Gaydamak (pictured) and Jean-Christophe Mitterrand—are notable enough, and I think what makes this case significant is the controversy itself, rather than the jail time. It is just that we wait for a verdict for any court case. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I support you majesty.;)--yousaf465' 07:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Master of Puppets 07:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated. How about: Several people involved in Angolagate, including Russian-Israeli businessman Arcadi Gaydamak (pictured) and former Interior Minister of France Charles Pasqua, are convicted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Support but I would rather that the blurb gave some indication of what Angolagate is about - Dumelow (talk) 16:27, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Alt: Several people involved in Angolagate, a political scandal over the illegal sale of arms to Angola, including Russian-Israeli businessman Arcadi Gaydamak (pictured) and former Interior Minister of France Charles Pasqua, are convicted. Might be a bit too long though... Any alt suggestions will be appreciated. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

"Former Interior Minister of France Charles Pasqua and 35 others are convicted of the illegal sale of arms to Angola." If that's not good enough, you could also add "... in the Angolagate trial" to the end, but I think it's fine without that addition. Getting the 36 number from here. Master of Puppets 17:05, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Gaydamak and Falcone are the only ones found guilty of illegal arms deals, and Pasqua was convicted of taking money from them, according to the sources. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
"Former Interior Minister of France Charles Pasqua and 35 others are convicted of participating in a scandal involving the illegal sale of arms to Angola"? Master of Puppets 17:12, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Better now, but can you add the 36 number somewhere in the article? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll append it to the sentencing section in a second. You can go ahead and put this up if you feel it's ready. Master of Puppets 17:15, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I've created a sentencing section, so feel free to link to it in the blurb. Master of Puppets 17:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. Used Gaydamak's image instead, per discussion on MoP's talk page. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Do you think it's necessary to mention that he's Russian-Israeli? As businessmen are usually international, and not bound to a nation (like a prime minister or something is), it seems a bit extraneous. Master of Puppets 17:43, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Removed. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Sounds good! Good work, everyone. Master of Puppets 18:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


October 27

ITN candidates for October 27

RasGas

"One of the world's largest"? I'm going to have to oppose, because an item like this should be highlighting a record. SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:50, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
ALT Qatar inaugurates the sixth LNG trains at the RasGas LNG plant.
ALT2 The Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani inaugurates a new LNG trains in Qatar, operated by RasGas.
There could be more alternatives, if necessary. Record or not, but inauguration of that size LNG train is significant event anyway. Beagel (talk) 05:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
CommentThey are already world largest producer of NG I think.

Biljana Plavšić

Former Bosnian Serb leader Biljana Plavšić is released from prison in Sweden, after serving two thirds of an 11-year sentence for crimes against humanity.[6][7] /Slarre (talk) 13:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Ares I-X

Support --UltraMagnusspeak 17:01, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Support once the article has been updated with details of the launch - Dumelow (talk) 10:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. I think this qualifies as an ITN/R space launch.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:41, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for now. The launch was rescheduled for Wednesday the 28th at 12:00 UTC, so it's not really newsworthy yet. --Tekdude (talk) 20:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

President of the Pontifical Council for Justicde and Peace

Oppose. Some news of the pope and his religion is all right but this sounds ordinary. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Iranian Revolutionary Guards held

I know its not long since the Revolutionary Guards were last on ITN (although in more tragic circumstances) but this seems pretty big. Pakistani Police have arrested 11 Guards and seized two vehicles after they apparently entered the country illegally. The article to update is probably Iran–Pakistan relations and I will probably get around to an update there tomorrow (unless someone beats me to it!), no time at the moment. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 00:32, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 00:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment. If you ask my opinion, these kind of events are that significant. I think Turkish PM's address to the Pakistani Parliament is more important. I'm going to update both.--yousaf465' 02:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
(BBC). They have since been released and returned to Iran. There is even confusion over whether they were actually Rev Guards. Probably not much of a story any more - Dumelow (talk) 10:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan addresses joint session of the two houses of Pakistani parliament

Well it was historical I think, Erdogan addresses joint session of the two houses of Pakistani parliament. Where should we put it ?--yousaf465' 03:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I suppose Obama's speeches do get posted sometimes... Pakistan–Turkey relations? --candlewicke 04:17, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Well what about a separate article.--yousaf465' 04:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
If one can be created out of this, i.e. if there are enough sources. --candlewicke 20:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


October 26

ITN candidates for October 26

GeoCities is closed down

people are complaining about windows 7. this is far down in the importance list compared to that. so oppose. -- Ashish-g55 19:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment Too old news.--yousaf465' 02:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Hwang Woo-Suk

Very good. --candlewicke 04:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Jurelang Zedkaia and the Marshallese presidential election

Support election per WP:ITNR. --candlewicke 04:18, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Both articles have been clarified and expanded slightly. They should hopefully be good enough to appear in the column. Scanlan (talk) 01:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
So is that a straightforward Jurelang Zedkaia is elected President of the Marshall Islands? --candlewicke 20:50, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


October 25

ITN candidates for October 25

Just a comment that ITN is unusually diverse and interesting today, great work chaps.  Skomorokh, barbarian  05:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Valentino Rossi wins 2009 MotoGP

I agree Rossi is more notable than Loeb. Here it is then: Cool Rossi crowned world champion. ... (talk) 04:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Support However the article needs work. The prose text has nothing about Rossi winning.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Valentino Rossi wins the 2009 MotoGP, his ninth Grand Prix World Championships. ... (talk) 04:41, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Tunisian general election, 2009

Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Support. Nirvana888 (talk) 01:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Results are in (if anyone wants to update). --candlewicke 16:45, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Just expanded it. Perhaps "Zine El Abidine Ben Ali (pictured) wins a fifth term as President of Tunisia" - Dumelow (talk) 17:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Sounds good. --candlewicke 17:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:12, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Sébastien Loeb wins 2009 World Rally Championship

Support, WRC is (as far as I know) the most important rally series in the world. I was surprised that this wasn't at ITN/R - Dumelow (talk) 11:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards oppose but would like to see arguments from those who support it. I know very little about motor sports, whether it's the Daytona 500 or the Dakar Rally. The WRC seems to be the most important event of a particular type of motorsports, which makes it a bit too narrow in significance for me.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand your logic, any sport event in motorsport belongs to "a particular type of motorsports", there is no such a thing as a general motorsport event. Or if you are right no motorsport event should be featured in ITN. Hektor (talk) 12:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, my logic is that an event like Formula 1 transcends categories and is the most important, or nearly the most important, of all motor sports events. Several of it's drivers are household names among people who don't follow auto racing at all. To me that is notability worthy of ITN. Does WRC have the same notability--I honestly don't know. Plus, auto racing has over 10 categories, not including Motorcycle racing (the top motorsports story today in European sports press seems to be Valentino Rossi). Do we post the top event for each category? So I think I need some perspective on how notable of the WRC is.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:14, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know very much about this event but I recognise the name "Sébastien Loeb" in the same way as "Jenson Button" who featured recently. I wonder does that mean Loeb is a household name anywhere? Six is also quite good, is it not? "World Rally Championship" suggests something international and above all else... --candlewicke 14:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I would just like to be more convinced of this. I compared Jenson Button and Sebastien Loeb on Google News searches and Button gets about 5 times as many results as Loeb. Searches on Google Actualites had similar results. I also looked at the past winners of the Laureus World Sports Awards and the L'equipe Champion of Champions award and no such award has ever been given to a WRC driver, though several have been given to F1 drivers and to Valentino Rossi. I did some searching around Laureus.com and no WRC driver has ever been nominated for an award as far as I can tell (nominees/winners have included several F1 drivers, Danica Patrick, and Valentino Rossi). F1 drivers have won a number of American 'Athlete of the year' awards as well. Certainly, it would seem that Rossi winning the MotoGP World Championship this weekend ought to be as or more notable than Loeb. Rossi is twice as notable as Loeb on Google Actualites. I am not suggesting that any of these points, or all of them together, mean Loeb winning the WRC isn't notable. It's just what I've found in the process of considering this. By contrast, a Dakar Rally driver, an ITN/R event, has also never been nominated for one of the awards above and the Dakar Rally doesn't seem very notable on Google News.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
When it come to cars, I tend to think F1 is the top championship. Motorcycle, MotoGP. ... (talk) 04:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

La Familia Michoacana (drug cartel)

Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:16, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Don't we have any more appropriate image than the FBI director? Also, image could be related to any other ITN story. --Tone 13:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the image is particularly inappropriate since the article itself contains lengthy comments made by Mueller. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:12, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

25 October 2009 Baghdad bombings

Now 74. Support.  Cargoking  talk  11:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Obvious support once we get a decent article on this - Dumelow (talk) 11:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
25 October 2009 Baghdad bombings. Death toll keeps rising :-(  Francium12  13:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Too short at the moment but I'll support it when expanded. --Tone 13:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Definite support. 132 dead, more than 500 injured at this time... the deadliest attack in Baghdad so far this year. --candlewicke 14:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Deadliest. May they all rest in Peace.--yousaf465' 14:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, article located at 25 October 2009 Baghdad bombings. Jolly Ω Janner 01:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:24, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Nigerien parliamentary election, 2009

The results of this controversial election have become known. Perhaps: "The National Movement for the Development of Society wins a majority of seats in the National Assembly of Niger after a controversial election boycotted by the main opposition parties" - Dumelow (talk) 11:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Support, but I would appreciate more references regarding the results - currently just one citation in the section. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I have clarified (it was quite confusing in its old form) and fully reffed the results section - Dumelow (talk) 11:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The results came out yesterday so if this is posted it should have yesterdays date on the hidden template (24 October) - Dumelow (talk) 12:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Puerto Rico oil refinery fire

The 2009 Cataño oil refinery fire, is still burning out of control today, two days after it began. Article could use some explantion, but it now exists. Potentially the biggest story on the island this year.Scanlan (talk) 15:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Support in that case. This is presumably a big enough event to occur on the island. A state of emergency has been declared too. --candlewicke 17:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


October 24

ITN candidates for October 24

Colombian footballers corpses discovered with gunshot wounds in Venezuela

Seems to be breaking news but one to watch perhaps... --candlewicke 00:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

OMG, support. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Should wait for confirmation first I suppose. --candlewicke 00:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, of course. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Support--This is a very significant crime uncovered. However, I imagine the likelihood of a lengthy investigation might make it tricky to decide when to post it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Article is here. Needs expansion. --candlewicke 20:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Expanded. The bodies of ten footballers kidnapped from Colombia are discovered scattered across Táchira in Venezuela. --candlewicke 05:56, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Cairo train collision

At least 14 deaths, scores injured. [9] -- TouLouse (talk) 20:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 20:21, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure. I think we often report accidents/disasters of this size, but I sometimes wonder if it's wise to report every such event of 10+ deaths. Is it really notable outside Egypt? Train or auto crashes happen quite often. Also, these type of events don't always have very good WP articles. Certainly the current article doesn't meet the minimum criteria yet, though I imagine it will eventually.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:55, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
The article can be improved if it has support though. I am still wondering what relevance this former ITN has to anyone outside Washington... there were far more people killed in the Cairo collision and it is more or at least just as suitable in my opinion. It is being given international coverage if that helps anybody's opinion. RIA Novosti CNN BBC Sky News Al Jazeera Haiti News The Age ABC Al Arabiya Reuters Africa The Gazette (Montreal) Ireland Online The Jerusalem Post. The death toll has risen significantly, is expected to continue rising, with some sources saying 25 are already dead. BBC says 20 dead and 50+ injured at this point. --candlewicke 00:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Hate to say I support because more people died, but it's probably now notable enough. I was looking a couple of months and I think we've reported nearly all disasters with this amount of deaths.Support when article is suitable.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Vast Support This should definely be ITN.

Done. At least 50 people are killed and 30 others are injured after two trains collide near Cairo. --candlewicke 17:14, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Economic Community of West African States

  Niger is suspended by the the Economic Community of West African States. This happened on Tuesday but I think there is still time due to the shortage of successful nominations. Similar suspensions by international organisations have featured in the past. --candlewicke 16:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Support, once there is a suitable update of either Economic Community of West African States or Foreign relations of Niger. Despite its date it will still fit onto the template due to a somewhat slow newsweek - Dumelow (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. --candlewicke 17:23, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
How about "The Economic Community of West African States suspends Niger from membership over its ongoing constitutional crisis" - Dumelow (talk) 19:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Sounds good. --candlewicke 19:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. On paper this seems to be a no brainer. If a nation was suspended from the EU or NAFTA we'd report it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Support --Windymager (talk) 02:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Why is this item so far down the queue? It should be the most recent news item, correct?--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No, the suspension was announced on 20 October. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Ah, right.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

World Monopoly Championships

Bjorn Halvard Knappskog from Norway is the champion. According to The Australian, Knappskog is "the youngest world Monopoly champion in the history of the competition", was ranked 16th at the semi-final stage and won "in a world-record time". Geoff "the Nimble Thimble" Christopher from New Zealand came second. Russia was eliminated before that. An American corporate lawyer was apparently "bankrupted" by Knappskog in the process. The Guardian—"Monopoly is considered to be the most commercially successful board game in US history". NZPA source says this was the 13th World Championships and it takes place every four years. --candlewicke 15:48, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow. I love Monopoly. Oppose. This is one of those non-notable competitions. The only sign of an article is here. Not what you would call long.  Cargoking  talk  15:50, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean you love monopoly? One could be created as is often the case... --candlewicke 16:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean, what do I mean? I love monopoly and that's that.  Cargoking  talk  16:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
What I mean about what you mean is I was trying to work out if you had meant to mean it sarcastically. --candlewicke 16:17, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
No. I try not to be sarcastic.  Cargoking  talk  16:22, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Ah. Sorry. --candlewicke 16:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
No need to be.  Cargoking  talk  16:57, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose --Windymager (talk) 02:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

International Day of Climate Action

The International Day of Climate Action, October 24, 2009. (NZ and Australia events are already googleable, most protests are still in the future, though.) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 07:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Leaning towards support. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Maybe "The International Day of Climate Action activities take place in 152 countries to raise awareness on global warming." -SusanLesch (talk) 19:18, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I'd like to see more evidence of this day's notability. There are actions taking place in a lot of countries but how large are these events? There are a number of environment-related 'days', and protests happen all the time. I'm not sure there's much evidence this event could impact environment policy significantly. Plus, the article is more of a 350.org brochure than an encyclopedia article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, it was the top story on Google News according to this (350.org says for 18 hours). I can personally attest to it being the top story on the New York Times global site as shown here [10]). Here's some Flickr evidence for the size of actions: [11] Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


October 23

ITN candidates for October 23

Jean Todt

Jean Todt wins an election to become President of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile, replacing Max Moseley who held the position for 16 years. [12] - I am not familiar with the motor sports, but FIA certainly seems to be an influential body. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. The FIA is the governing body of what is regarded as the highest form of motorsport. The election was contested and followed closely in the media. GreenGourd (talk) 18:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards oppose. It's fairly significant within the sport but I don't see it as notable beyond that.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
The FIA is also a general automotive body, they exist for more than motorsport. IIIVIX (Talk) 21:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
But is it notable outside of motorsports? The WP articles states that To the general public, the FIA is mostly known as the governing body for many motor racing events.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:48, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Oil spill

Up to 2,000 barrels a day of oil are leaking into the Timor Sea. It has been going on for 2 months but this is the first I have heard of it and it has just been compared to the Exxon Valdez disaster and had the output upgraded. (The Times). Article at Montara oil spill, where there are also some good pictures - Dumelow (talk) 08:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

It has recently resurfaced in the news as the WWF have done some overflights and have said that it is "having a significant impact on marine life" so perhaps we can use that: "The WWF says that the Montara oil spill (pictured) in the Timor Sea is having a significant impact on marine life" (BBC)- Dumelow (talk) 08:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
The article itself is a good candidate but I don't like the term "a significant impact" - a bit too ambiguous. Can it be more specific? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Apparently they can't be more specific as they don't know enough about the habitat in teh first place (only three, limited studies of it have been published) (guardian). They are apparently going to make their fourth attempt at plugging the leak this weekend so that might make for a better blurb (ABC) - Dumelow (talk) 15:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 21:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Support.--yousaf465' 07:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
In general I support; but perhaps it is a good idea to wait until we know more about the effects?--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:50, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Support given enough information and media coverage. ~AH1(TCU) 15:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The attempt at sealing has been delayed once more to tomorrow (News.com.au), hopefully we can get a useful update to the article then - Dumelow (talk) 17:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Cataño oil refinery fire

The 2009 Cataño oil refinery fire is still burning out of control as of Sunday, October 25th. It threatens Puerto Rico's fuel supply. A basic stub article has been created. Scanlan (talk) 11:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


October 22

ITN candidates for October 22

Sweden's Lutheran Church allows gay marrages

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. The updating of the article looks good. GreenGourd (talk) 01:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment. Is the Church of Sweden really breaking new ground here? The article says it will allow individual pastors to conduct same-sex marriages. A New York Times article from July says three major U.S. Protestant denominations and two branches of Judaism allow same-sex marriage ceremonies. The Quakers do the same. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
That's why the wording has been changed to "becoming one of the first churches to do so", per comments posted on WP:ERRORS... I suppose it also depends on the definition of a "major" church. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I think that "...becoming one of the first churches to do so" is problematic too; the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Church and the Quakers are all fairly major Protestant denominations in the US, and other denominations (such as the Episcopalians) allow individual ministers or parishes to conduct same-sex weddings (although some restrict the use of the word "marriage"). How would people feel about editing the item so that it just says, "Sweden's Lutheran Church (Uppsala Cathedral pictured) decides to conduct same-sex marriages." ? That avoids the question of what churches "count" as major or first altogether. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 16:53, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, your Majesty! —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 17:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

October 2009 Afghanistan earthquake

  • A 6.2 earthquake occurred in Afghanistan. TouLouse (talk) 20:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Well here is the source, Strong earthquake strikes Afghanistan and Pakistan. --yousaf465' 04:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
"It was a severe earthquake. People woke up and came out of their houses, fortunately there was no damage". --candlewicke 21:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Windows 7

  • This will affect millions of people, it is reported on by practically every news source in the world, and the article is in pretty good shape. Lampman (talk) 19:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. If this were to go through, we would have to put up any Mac or Linux rival. Besides, this is only a new operating system. Non notable.  Cargoking  talk  20:47, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. There is no rule that if we put up an event of type X, we have to put up all events of type X. A new Windows OS is more important than a new Mac or Linux OS because so many more people use Windows. That said, this is not as big of a deal as the release of Windows 3.0 or 95, which were red-letter dates in computer history. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:28, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Support per Mwalcoff --PlasmaTwa2 01:51, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Support It's a major release. I'm a Linux geek but will support this in ITN.--yousaf465' 02:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. This is a notable release, which has received a lot of press. Article seems great. Offliner (talk) 03:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, given the overwhelming supports, going to post it soon even though I am not keen on this. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:18, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah I am against this as well. I guess because it feels too much like an advert to me - Dumelow (talk) 13:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks guys I appreciate it!--Cumbiagermen (talk) 18:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I would not have been keen on this for ITN either but I suppose it is late now... --candlewicke 20:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Note: An editor has begun a poll to remove Windows 7.  Cargoking  talk  15:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
And here it is ... — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
It's definitely way too late, but regardless of how big the launch of Windows 7 is, in the end, this is an advertisement. And WP:NOT an advertising agency. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 19:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Vote to remove Windows 7 from ITN

I know it has been voted to put Windows 7 In the news Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates, however I think that it should be removed because it fails WP:NOTABILITY, and it wasn't properly discussed in the candidacy vote, since many people have been against it. The most common counter-arguments are:

  • Windows 7 is the next generation of the most widely used OS for personal computers: but why does that make it notable? Coca Cola is the most drinked sugar drink, but however no mention is done of each next generation flavor. PlayStation 2 is the most widely used console, but there was no ITN feature when Playstation 3 was launched. Also Catholicism is the world's biggest religion, but the current Ordinariate with Anglicanism isn't in the news (and in Argentina, and I guess most Anglican and Catholic countries those were headlines in all major newspapers).
  • It generated a lot of publicity all over the world: For some reason, many people confuse the whole world with the United States and Western Europe. I haven't seen any advert of Windows 7 outside of a computer magazines, and we are not doing launch parties on our houses because of it. The last harry potter movie generated mutch more publicity, however I don't remember seeing its launch In the news.
  • Everybody will use it: But they aren't using it now. Just the fact that 90% of home computer users use Windows as an operating system doesn't mean that many of those 90% will install Windows 7. Windows XP its still the most widely used Windows version, even 3 years after Vista release, and one way or another this would be under WP:CRYSTAL. There are a lot of products "everybody" uses, like Levi's, the most widely used Jeans, and aren't covered In The News each time a new model comes out.
  • It will change many lives: No it won't. Check the former point.

So I'm opening this vote to remove Windows 7 from the news. FixmanPraise me 15:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this may be better suited to WP:ITN/C.  Cargoking  talk  15:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
If you think so, then Be Bold and move it, just remember to correct all the links to this page to point there. And also, link this page to ITN/C. --FixmanPraise me 16:01, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Just a little point I forgot: Windows is used on 90% of personal computers. While that is the most part of the computer "population", its still a minority on Supercomputers and Servers, and those two make affect people and the internet globally mutch more than personal computers. --FixmanPraise me 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Not true, the opposite in fact- http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,62057475,00.htm. Windows actually leads in the server market. Even in the web server market it's competitive. 70.99.182.114 (talk) 06:14, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Keep
  1. first of all this seems like violation of WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. second some reasons above seem like a clear POV like "It will change many lives: No it won't..." (not the reason the news is up on ITN to begin with). the news is clearly big and is being talked about worldwide. Just open any finance or business section to see what windows 7 means for microsoft and software in general. So a clear KEEP -- Ashish-g55 17:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  2. This is very big news in the technology sector and is being covered very widely. It is also very likely to attract a large number of readers considering the commercial failure that Vista became. Also, votes are not a substitute for consensus. I think this news event is certainly legitimately listed here, and the fact that other events you think are notable have not been listed here is not a valid reason to remove this one. Timmeh 18:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  3. This a worldwide release not a North American interest piece as was stated above. It is also a new operating system not "New Vista" or Vista version 1.1 etc. As regards having to put up other operating system releases the only one that I would compare would be a Mac OSX release for popularity and interest.Shinerunner (talk) 18:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  4. This is a notable release which has gathered a lot of media attention. Offliner (talk) 19:05, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    The death of Stephen Gately gathered "a lot of media attention". It didn't go up.  Cargoking  talk  21:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    Windows 7 is far more notable than Steven Gately, I think. While I'm in danger of predicting the future here, as the original objector warned, I think I can safely say more people will use it than will have listened to Gately.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:25, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  5. First, per Ashisg55, I don't think this is a good way to decide ITN questions. In any event, this is huge news internationally. This is not about favoring a particular product; in other words, we don't have to put up every other new operating system. Most importantly, we have a darn good article. GreenGourd (talk) 19:10, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  6. Keep. I understand the anxiety over a news item clearly connected to commercial product, and I was surprised this was posted as quickly as it was, but I think it's clearly a very notable item. It's certainly notable as a business event, let alone a technology event. Plus, the Windows 7 article is a very good and balanced piece. There is always concern about POV with ITN, not just with an event connected with a commercial product. We posted Obama's election victory--that doesn't mean that WP supports or endorses president Obama. --Johnsemlak (talk) 20:22, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    I also don't think this is the appropriate way to decide this, as per WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. Also, the vote starts with a list of reasons to remove the item very heavy in POV, but there isn't a list of the other side. It's like having an election and only allowing one candidate to say anything.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:20, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    I can see where you are coming from. But how can we establish that Windows 7 has high enough notability? Or on a larger scale, how can we decide that anything has notability for ITN? Should we use consensus and/or democracy for ITN? I think everyone who has contributed to this debate so far, should sit on the fence and wait for a while and see what others have to think.  Cargoking  talk  21:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    Good point on that, so I won't comment further on what I think of the notability of the Windows 7. I will say that this 'election' does show evidence of lack of consensus; so perhaps it should be removed on that basis. I just think this discussion has gone on a slightly wrong turn.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    Here, here.  Cargoking  talk  22:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  7. We're voting on these things now? Well, keep then. It's the latest generation of an o/s used by roughly 90% of all computers connected to the internet. World wide coverage, effects people globally..check check check. How we find out what's notable or not is another question but by the standards here (ITN) up to this point, this easily qualifies. RxS (talk) 00:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
    And just to state the obvious, coverage is not just limited to the US:[13]:[14][15][16][17][18] RxS (talk) 00:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Remove
  1. Remove --FixmanPraise me 15:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  2. Remove I just can't believe a product that will not affect so many people is in The News. I can confirm that the "forgiveness" of the Anglican church and the Catholic church is big headlines in Newspapers, TV and Radio in Uruguay also, and I really can't believe that isn't in the news, but windows 7 is. --BrownGez (talk) 15:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  3. Remove For reasons given. 92.11.57.193 (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  4. Remove Windows 7 is a commercial product. Bgamari (talk) 17:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
  5. Remove otherwise every OS goes up. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    Sure, when other o/s family has 90% market penetration. Like it or not Windows has global effect and coverage. RxS (talk) 00:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  6. Remove Regardless of how big Windows 7 is, in the end it is a commercial product. And its appearance on ITN is nothing more than an advertisement, some that is WP:NOT. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 19:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    If something has as big an impact as Windows 7, it should not and does not matter whether or not it is a commercial product. It's still relevant and notable enough to be listed as news. Timmeh 19:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    But windows 7 has not big impacr. It is just a product that got a lot publicity in the United States, and that does not make it notable. --FixmanPraise me 20:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    Please remove this item. Microsoft Windows article was wrong; they only have 86% market share (not 93%). -SusanLesch (talk) 23:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  7. Remove. While I think some commercial products really need to get ITN in special cases, the launch of Windows 7 isn't one of them. I mean, what will happen? Many people will buy a new operative system? Will that change anything?
    Besides, I'm sure the new version of Ubuntu to be released next week will be mutch more notable, because while only abouy 6% of personal computers have it, most Servers and Supercomputers use Linux, and that will make it mutch mutch bigger. --Windymager (talk) 02:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Not true (actually, when talking about Linux, not even close to being true), see my comment above. 70.99.182.114 (talk) 06:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking this was going to come up... The simple fact is server OSes are largely irrelevant to the end user (i.e. most readers) so really the market share and their launches are irrelevant. Yes they are important but they are not something even most people who use computers know or care about. Quick what OS/es do the various Wikipedia servers use? What about the various Google servers? If you work or are at university what OSes do the various servers for your work/university use? What about your ISP/s? The vast majority of people even those fairly technically inclined will have little idea. And for good reason. Servers OS even those users interact with every day are generally supposed to be transparent and not something the user need to know or care about. Most of the time unless you actually go looking you won't notice the difference. However even with an excellent good admin there's a fair chance which OS will make a difference to the end user and it is something they will normally notice even if they don't care. And of course many people buying a computer do care what OS is on it and people with a computer often make an active decision about whether to upgrade to Windows 7, keep using their existing OS or choose something else. This happens with servers too of course, but most people don't buy nor even rent (virtual servers and the like) servers. And as I've said, the rest is mostly transparent and not something the user usually cares about. How many people say, I don't want to use Hotmail because they use Windows for the servers? Nil Einne (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment

I'm unconvinced either way and think the 'vote' is a silly thing anyway. However IMHO an important thing on ITN is we need to avoid crystal balling and go by what the article says and supported by reliable sources which establish why something is of international interest. A key point is that according to our article "Pre-orders of Windows 7 at Amazon.co.uk in the first eight hours of its availability surpassed the demand for Windows Vista in its first 17 weeks.[67] It became the highest-grossing pre-order in Amazon's history, surpassing sales of the previous record holder, the seventh Harry Potter book.[68]" and "After the launch, 64-bit versions of Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate editions sold out in Japan.[75]". The first one has been in for a long time (no idea about the second one) perhaps even before the article went up on ITN. I'm not saying this is sufficient (it's only the UK and Japan and the second one may just mean Microsoft perhaps purposely underestimated the demand) but it does suggest this is not just an ordinary product launch. Also the Coca-Cola, Levi etc comparisons are silly. People don't expect nor require a new flavour of soft drink. How upgrading OS is normal. MS themselves are ending support of Windows XP. Most of the time (there are of course some notable exceptions e.g. New Coke) if a company introduces a new flavour they don't stop producing the old. If a new flavour fails they kill it and lose a bit of money. They may not even lose any market share. This isn't how much of the computing world works where new products are necessary to replace the old. While styles change so companies do tend to need new jeans, this isn't to the same level as computer stuff. And companies have multiple styles etc anyway, they are dependent on one product. So really none of these stuff are comparable. Something like a gaming console (or a mobile phone) is much more comparable. However gaming consoles are still a bit of a niche item and no phone really dominates like Windows so even that isn't really comparable. (The iPhone for example is big in the smart phone market but still doesn't have the dominance of Windows and the smart phone market is only a small percentage of the mobile phone market anyway.) To some extent, because of Microsoft's dominance this launch is significant whatever happens. If it flops (whether because of the OS itself or other factors), then Microsoft loses market share. If it does well, it continues Microsoft's dominance. Even without crystal balling, it's clear that the success or failure of Windows 7 is something that will make a noticable difference to most people using computers in the years to come (even if not one thay care about). Nil Einne (talk) 18:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Thats untrue. Windows Vista was a flop, with most personal computer users and enterprises sticking to XP, but that didn't make Microsoft lose any market share. Besides, Windows 7 will not affect a lot of people, just personal computer users that decide to buy it, and either way its crystalling. --FixmanPraise me 20:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Microsoft have a clear end of life policy for Windows XP. This means people have the choice of using either an unsupported OS or moving to something else. Also as I explained, computers also only have a fairly limited lifespan. The recession may extend the life span of computers but it's been difficult to buy Windows XP computers for a while already and Windows 8 isn't due for 3 years. If Microsoft no longer sell Windows XP, anyone buying a new computer will have no choice but to choose some other OS. Also personal computers are a part of every day life for a significant number of people in the developed world (for example according to [19] 60% of households in the US had personal computers in 2000), and a fair number of people in the developing world so it's silly to suggest it won't affect a lot of people (as I've said, whether they care or not is a different thing). The vast majority of people visiting the Wikipedia main page do of course have a personal computer (although I'm not strongly supportive of the idea of Mwalcoff et al that we should target people who visit the main page). And BTW, Microsoft did lose market share... Also I admit I may have gone more OT then I liked but I also noticed you failed to address most of my other points. P.S. I forgot to mention in addition to HP7 which was mentioned on Talk:Main Page we also featured the Tata Nano when it was annouced. P.P.S. Affecting a lot of people is of course not the only heck not even the primary ITN criterion. Otherwise we wouldn't have elections for small countries. Even stuff like Michael Jackson dying it's questionable how much it affects people. Sure his last concerts were never held, a lot of people cried or were sad, some people made or are making money, ultimately most people's lives aren't that different for it. Need I go on to Fruitadens, Memorial or even the Church of Sweden? P.P.P.S. I think this should be clear but if not, do note that as Windows is the dominant OS it is something that most people buying a new computer will effectively decide on. P.P.P.P.S Final comment I promise, both HP7 and Tata Nano were controversial and I would say it's a largely unresolved issue. Of course many TFAs which feature a product are controversial too, even fair trade coffee so it doesn't mean it's definitely a mistake. However it may suggest a general discussion is called for on when, if ever, to feature products in that way, after this all dies down although I wonder if it will hit the same fate of the the big fuss after the Ted Kennedy issue. Also I just remembered I'm pretty sure we did have the outcome of the BluRay/HD DVD war although that isn't quite the same thing (although in some ways more crystal bally since it could have been completely insignificant if BluRay never hit off). Nil Einne (talk) 20:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Dude this is so dumb. Just shows you how far Microsoft bashers will go to steal others' thunder. A vote to remove an item from the news section of Wikipedia 3 days after it's already been posted? The thing is going to be buried anyway when newer items pop up. Why the effort? Just deal with the fact that it was successfully put up, and next time pay attention to the vote to put it up in the first place. Jesus, people, I swear! --Cumbiagermen (talk) 08:30, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

BBC grants a voice to the far right British National Party

  • Controversy Cat says this is very controversial! MickMacNee (talk) 04:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards support, but something tells me others won't... --BorgQueen (talk) 08:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
A well-written, extensive article though. Nice work. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks BQ. MickMacNee (talk) 14:16, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Important for the UK but not internationally. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
    Well I knew this would be the objection, but just so you know, I haven't even looked for evidence of international coverage yet beyond the WSJ which I just stumbled on, that was something to do for today, so check back as/when if I do. MickMacNee (talk) 14:16, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
    See article talk page for evidence the protests have made international news, even before broadcast, but I havent as yet got around to any nuanced addition of international reactions yet. MickMacNee (talk) 19:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Opppose. Same reason as Martin; low international significance. Nirvana888 (talk) 14:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll support. Locally its significant enough. we've had a few controversies on ITN in past that were fairly local... Article is pretty good too. -- Ashish-g55 14:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Ashishg55. In any case, we need to wait until it is broadcast. Reactions from other countries might add some degree of international implications. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, per BorgQueen and Ashishg55. This strikes me as a story that is interesting internationally, particularly across Europe. Also, the article is good. GreenGourd (talk) 15:25, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm unfamiliar with the political specifics, but it certainly seems that this could become significant across Europe. Haider's prime ministership certainly did.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Haider was not prime minister but a Governor of Carinthia. However, he held a prominent position while this is the case someone gets on the news channel so this can't be comparable. Oppose for now. --Tone 09:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I think I am leaning towards oppose on this one. The article is great and there has been a lot of coverage of this here in the UK but I just can't see the international significance of this - Dumelow (talk) 16:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Support It has got plenty of international coverage; it's of great interest to everybody in Europe and beyond.[20][21][22] Anyway, it's time we put aside forced internationalism and relativism, and focus a bit more on presenting good articles in ITN. Lampman (talk) 18:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
That last point is quite compelling - the articles on Griffin and the controversy are, on the whole, pretty good, and that on the BNP isn't bad. It's a nice opportunity to showcase that we can write well on hideously thorny topics, even if the topic itself is a little borderline for ITN. Shimgray | talk | 12:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
An excellent opinion, Shimgray. However, I don't think we have a clear consensus on this yet... --BorgQueen (talk) 14:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand how this compares with what is usually on ITN. Excellently written nevertheless but developed articles about national controversies have been rejected or not featured, etc. in the past. --candlewicke 21:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Well I don't know what's supposed to go on it then. It has been picked up by all the wires around the world, and there are now signs of actual further analysis/comment in international venues on issues like free speech [23] and comparable broadcasting arrangements (e.g. Haaretz, already added), which I am just seeing casually as I look for domestic sources, and there is a default European aspect to this too with the involvement of MEPs and references to Le Pen [24]. The only reason I haven't added any more international sources yet is that I cannot even keep up with the flood of domestic info, I'm even working on a woefully late update right now. However, I checked earlier, and even without an ITN appearance, it had already clocked 6.8k views in a day, more even than one of the already published ITN entries. Ironically, given this is supposed to be 'in the news', I have a suspicion that these views are coming directly form the interweb because it shows up directly on a casual 'whats on Google News today' general query, because it certainly doesn't yet rank well on a targetted basic Google search. Maybe we need a Main Page section which renders differently depending on your location. MickMacNee (talk) 01:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
But you mean to say that it ought to be posted because it has a lot of views? --candlewicke 15:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Am I? Guess so. Maybe ITN needs a more simplified criteria like that, somebody everybody can understand. Just have a list of acceptable regular postings (e.g. shuttle loo roll missions, Obama takes a dump, etc), and then anything else that over say 5,000 people seek out on their own, can just be automatically be considered of interest enough to post. Or, we get smart, and create a page view tool that breaks down views by continent, and post anything that scores anough across the board. Anything that makes this infuriating page more worthwhile turning up at with daft optimism. Interesting to note though that the interest in this article is a tenth of the interest in the Oasis article when they split, something I was adamant was ITN worthy. Did that have more support than this for posting? I truly don't recall. MickMacNee (talk) 20:18, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I will throw in support if it's not too late. As many people have said, there's significant international interest.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, as I think this would set a bad precedent. Modest Genius talk 01:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
That would seem to imply that precedents could even be meaningfully set in ITN for irregular events. Doubting Cat is Doubting. MickMacNee (talk) 03:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Then everyone wants their national scandal posted. Like all those insulted women in Italy... it also happened this week, it also was on TV, it also attracted international interest, it also involved upset people... except I think a Prime Minister provoking such a reaction is more than a little above the chairman of the BNP... --candlewicke 06:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Well again, a case in point, I happen to think that those two events are utterly incomparable. MickMacNee (talk) 01:54, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Israel-Iran talks

Israel claims that senior officials of both countries met for talks over nuclear weapons (Iran has denied the meeting happened). If true then this would be the first official exchange since the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Relevant article would probably be Iran-Israel relations. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 10:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Sakharov Prize for Memorial

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated. Any support? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Believing no one will object, going to post soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Should this be added to WP:ITNR? --candlewicke 15:55, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I would say yes. The prize is prestigious enough. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:57, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Added. --candlewicke 00:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


October 21

ITN candidates for October 21

New dinosaur species

[25] The article Fruitadens appears to be in good shape, expanded by User:J. Spencer. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:31, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Minor point: It was described in literature, not disocvered recently. It was discovered over 20 years ago, but only recently announced to the general public. --Spotty 11222 10:31, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
As usual, we could use the wording "The discovery of ... is announced" in that case. Any objections/supports? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

President Litokwa Tomeing

I nominate the ouster of Marshallese President Litokwa Tomeing for the ITN column. The move is the first time that the opposition has successfully ousted a sitting Marshallese President in a vote of no confidence in the country's history. Scanlan (talk) 12:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

  • There's a photo of President Tomeing, though it may need to be lightened.
The article needs and update, otherwise, this is a good candidate. --Tone 13:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Would be nice to get an article on Ruben Zackhras (the temporary president) as well but otherwise I support when the article is sufficiently updated - Dumelow (talk) 13:53, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps: "Litokwa Tomeing (pictured) loses a vote of no confidence in the Legislature of the Marshall Islands and is temporarily replaced as President by Ruben Zackhras" - Dumelow (talk) 20:17, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I'd omit Zackhras from the blurb because his article has just two sentences. --Tone 20:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I thought it wasn't necessary to update all the articles? --candlewicke 20:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, I still don't want to have totally stubby articles on MP. --Tone 09:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted, but the picture is really horrible, I would prefer not to use it. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
It's not that bad, especially at low resolution. And I think we're due an image change. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:14, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Would you do the honor, then? Thanks. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


October 20

ITN candidates for October 20

Orionids

As Earth passes through Halley's Comet debris stream observers should witness 20 to 25 meteors per hour as part of the 2009 Orionid Meteor Shower which will peak Wednesday October 21, 2009.SriMesh | talk 00:03, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
SupportIt's been a slow news period, plus a science related piece would be a nice change of pace.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:00, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Some well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 20:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I think this would make a great ITN but is the main article (Orionids) not a little short at the moment? - Dumelow (talk) 21:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, actually, it needs some polishing as well. Any volunteers? --BorgQueen (talk) 01:32, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Added some more detail, as the meteor shower should last until Sunday October 25, 2009. SriMesh | talk 04:54, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Nice work. Btw, was 21 Oct the peak? The article says "The peak of the 2009 Orionid meteor shower will occur around October 21, 2009" --BorgQueen (talk) 08:29, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I read it peaked on October 20 this year. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


October 19

ITN candidates for October 19

Charles Wesley Mumbere

Support. --candlewicke 20:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Scientists discover 32 new planets

BBC and Washington Post--what about this?--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:43, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Extrasolar planet seems to be the most relevant article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

October 17–19

Oppose until they agree on something. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

China relocates 15,000 people

Chinese officials decide to relocate 15,000 people away from the country's largest lead smelter after 1,000 children tested positive for lead poisoning. The lead company (Yuguang Gold and Lead) will bear the cost and the additional cost of maintaining an exclusion zone around the plant. BBC, Reuters. I know large scale industrial pollution isn't anything new for China but a mass relocation sounds newsworthy. No article that I could find (on the incident or company) - Dumelow (talk) 08:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Article ? --yousaf465' 14:47, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
"No article that I could find (on the incident or company)" - Dumelow (talk) 17:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Why not add it to Lead poisoning. --yousaf465' 02:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Support in any article. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated . Done a bit --yousaf465' 08:28, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


October 18

ITN candidates for October 18

2009 World Artistic Gymnastics Championships

This is due to end today. Is it important? --candlewicke 04:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The article needs work. But I don't really think it's all that notable. I do think that women's sports could perhaps get a little more love on ITN, but there are other ones I'd nominate ahead of this.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards oppose. --Tone 11:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Also leaning towards oppose, but thank you Johnsemlak for even thinking of women's sports. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Mea Culpa. I'm embarrassed to say that I confused Artistic Gymnastics with Rhythmic gymnastics. In Russian, 'Rhythmic gymnastics' is called 'Artistic gymnastics' and 'Artistic gymnastics' is called, well, 'gymnastics'. So I'll reverse my statement earlier saying this isn't all that notable. However, the article is far from ready.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Iranian suicide bombing

A blast in Sistan-Baluchistan kills 29 and injures at least 28 people. The dead include several top Revolutionary Guard commanders (deputy commander of the ground force, General Noor Ali Shooshtari, and chief provincial commander, Rajab Ali Mohammadzadeh) and Shia and Sunni tribal leaders. (BBC). No article (I could find) as yet - Dumelow (talk) 11:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Do we have an article? This is a big story, support when updated. --Tone 11:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Adding my support. --candlewicke 16:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Large bombing, with probable significant political implications in Iran which will be widely followed by the international media.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:09, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Second in command killed. There will be some issues with POV.--yousaf465' 01:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
We have 2009 Pishin bombing. If you think the article is good enough, I can post it. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:00, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Will this be helpful, it quotes ABC, Jundullah claims responsibility for terror attack. --yousaf465' 02:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Any improvement seen ? --yousaf465' 02:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
The article looks good. It has 4 paragraphs, is well referenced, appears to stick to NPOV, and contains the recent development of Jundullah claiming responsibility for the attack.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Formula One season

Jenson Button wins the 2009 Formula One championship, the first time in 40 years that British drivers have held the title in two consecutive seasons. Regards, --—Cyclonenim | Chat  17:35, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Source coming soon, and I've provisionally updated the article but I presume it'll be updated heavily over coming hours. Regards, --—Cyclonenim | Chat  17:35, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Source: [27] Regards, --—Cyclonenim | Chat  18:04, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support as per ITN/R.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support for same reason. --candlewicke 18:08, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. Omitting the part about British drivers because that's statistics. Just curious, which of the two articles to highlight? Both are appropriate but this would make almost the whole blurb bold. --Tone 18:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Query Is he actually officially recognised as champion yet, or is it merely that he has established an unassailable lead? Have the FIA declared him champion, or only the media? Is any ratification of the result needed? The article says Jenson Button has already secured the title with one race to spare: is that necessarily the same as becoming champion? Support when the time is right, but are we certain that we are not being presumptive? Kevin McE (talk) 19:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Actually, you are right, let us just wait for the official end of the championship. Does not matter if he has the lead already. --Tone 19:16, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support mathematically he cannot lose the championship, so he won it. When Obama won the presidency, it was listed immediately, not after the official results came in. Nergaal (talk) 19:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support but with rewording I agree with Tone about the mention of the two consecutive UK winners. Also Nergaal makes a good point re: Obama being the presumptive president elect. Barring anything which comes afterwards which removes points (like the constructors championship and McClaren last year, which would incidentally be a news story in itself), he is the presumptive champion. Suggest wording "Jenson Button and Brawn GP win the 2009 Formula One World Championships" since the constructors won their championship in the same race.BigHairRef | Talk 19:42, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support as per John. HonouraryMix (talk) 19:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, Schumacher was disqualified from the whole championship at the last race of 1997 season so some things may still happen. Though, as this is extremely unlikely, I am fine with putting Button up now. I'll use the wording above. --Tone 19:47, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
So we publish something that is not ratified, because it "is extremely unlikely" that it won't happen??!?! We are constantly told that encyclopaedic integrity is more important than rapid updates, usually at the same time as being reminded that this is not a news feed. I'm not certain that FIA don't already regard him as the new champion: if they have, then no problem, but if not, it is not for us to declare a champion before the relevant authority does so, regardless of shortcuts taken by the press: we operate to an encyclopaedic standard, not a journalistic one. If people are determined to post early (and it is only early if the FIA don't yet recognise him: I only raised it as a query) then all we can say as a tag is Britain's Jenson Button takes an unassailable lead in the 2009 Formula One Championship. Kevin McE (talk) 20:42, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, what about changing the blurb to Button and Brawn secure winning in the Cship one race before the end? Or the above. Either is fine with me. --Tone 22:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
How about a metion of nationality? It's usually the done thing with sports on the Main Page. Jolly Ω Janner 20:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Nationality of the driver or the team? In this case they're both British but I think neither is necessary. Readers can access that info in the linked article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


October 17

ITN candidates for October 17

Arms embargo on Guinea

The Economic Community of West African States imposes an arms embargo on Guinea after the deaths of opposition supporters at a rally last month. [28] --BorgQueen (talk) 00:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Support this, notable policy change. Midway (talk) 11:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 13:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Any sign of an article?  Cargoking  talk  13:36, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Economic Community of West African States. --candlewicke 13:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Is doesn't say anything though.  Cargoking  talk  14:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Ah. BorgQueen must not have updated yet. --candlewicke 16:16, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
No, not yet. Please give me a while. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:27, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Neda Agha-Soltan

We might want to keep an eye on this: "Iran's Martyr Foundation said on Saturday it will declare Neda Agha-Soltan a martyr if is proven that an enemy of the state caused the young woman's death" [29] The foundation is run by the government, therefore it is obviously a propaganda campaign, however if they do officially declare her a martyr it might be notable enough for ITN. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure after all the controversy about Father Damien? --candlewicke 23:02, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I fail to see the connection. Could you enlighten me a bit? --BorgQueen (talk) 23:13, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
If you are concerned about NPOV issue, I believe it has more to do with how it is covered in the article and how the blurb is worded, rather than the fact itself. (ex. if reliable sources call it a propaganda, we should cite them calling it a propaganda.) Of course, if consensus does not support this then we should look for something else... --BorgQueen (talk) 23:44, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

South Waziristan Operation

Pakistan has launched the mega operation. --yousaf465' 07:20, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Article updated Operation Rah-e-Nijat. --yousaf465' 07:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
There are a few visible problems: (1) The update is too short, (2) the "update" doesn't mention dates and only has short sentences, (3) only one new reference.  Cargoking  talk  07:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Some of the prob have been solved. More links on the way. PM is likely to address the nation of it.--yousaf465' 07:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Still lacks today's date. Is there any support from anyone? I myself have yet to decide.  Cargoking  talk  07:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I reckon we should merge 2009 South Waziristan offensive with the "Second Phase" of Operation Rah-e-Nijat. Jolly Ω Janner 13:06, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Support merge. Also this is going to the major assault. According to one official this is mother of all battles. No turning back this time.--yousaf465' 14:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, I've now merged it and added some more information about the invasion with more two references now. Perhaps "The Pakistan Army begins Operation Rah-e-Nijat againgst the Taliban in South Waziristan, Pakistan." Jolly Ω Janner 15:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. I'll link the appropriate paragraph directly. --Tone 16:04, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
SupportAs I understand this is possibly a significant change in Pakistan's policy towards the Taliban. --Johnsemlak (talk) 16:08, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, a little late. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:04, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Well it not a policy change, just doing a right thing at right time. Operations of this scale require a significant perp, also have to go get a nod of approval of political leadership. So such a delay. --yousaf465' 07:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


October 16

ITN candidates for October 16

Uruguay

Or maybe not... is there a contradiction somewhere? --candlewicke 04:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Niue is not a sovereign nation, as it is in free association with New Zealand. Therefore it depends what you class as a 'country'. Modest Genius talk 17:44, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Support in that case. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:05, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Leaning toward support. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Under the One Laptop per Child scheme Uruguay becomes the first country to deliver a free laptop to each child of primary school age. --candlewicke 14:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Support --UltraMagnusspeak 15:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:36, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Goldstone Report endorsed by UNHCR

Support. Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 20:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:15, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Is three supports (including the nominator) enough?  Cargoking  talk  07:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
supportif it isn't, here is another--UltraMagnusspeak 11:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Offliner (talk) 11:32, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Sydney conviction

Do we have an article on this? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:15, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, we have 2005 Sydney terrorism plot. Anyone willing to update? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
It ought be added to whatever hook is decided upon that it was Australia's longest trial. BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 16:47, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, updating now. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated, any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 21:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
And here, is two (including the nominator) supports enough?  Cargoking  talk  08:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, thank you for the support. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:14, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

a-ha split after 25 years

Nominated because 25 years is a long time for a band to be continually popular, there is evidence of continuing international success (see chart positions of latest album Foot of the Mountain, released in 2009, for example, where it went to number one in Germany and number five in the UK as verified by Reuters India), the a-ha article claims 26 million album sales by 1994 and world tours including Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Chile, Japan, Lebanon, Senegal, South Africa plus most of Europe (UK, Russia, France, Germany, etc) so they are known on every continent. Reuters India says they have sold more than 70 million records including singles. From BBC, "They even broke a world record at Rio de Janeiro's Maracana Stadium in 1991, when 196,000 fans paid to see them" and were "invited to play the Nobel Peace Prize concert in 1998". --candlewicke 01:54, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

No one interested? Not even an oppose? :P --candlewicke 23:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
So haven't they broken up once before?--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Does this have any significance?  Cargoking  talk  08:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
They apparently broke a world record and are known across the world. --candlewicke 18:19, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Doesn't seem notable. Offliner (talk) 11:33, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - pop culture cruft --UltraMagnusspeak 12:08, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Botswana general election, 2009

Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Support. Nothing unusual. --yousaf465' 02:09, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, support when result is known per WP:ITNR. --candlewicke 02:11, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Really interesting coat of arms as well if an image is needed... --candlewicke 19:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah I was going to mention that, was quite impressed by the zebras. Anyway the ruling party has claimed the victory as they have already won the majority of seats. Official results counted for only 35 of 57 seats so far (per electoral commission website). - Dumelow (talk) 19:47, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, but we need some prose update about the results. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I have added text to the results section. Possible blurb: "President Ian Khama leads the Democratic Party to victory in a general election in Botswana (coat of arms pictured)" - Dumelow (talk) 11:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --Tone 12:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Neues Museum

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 23:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Support BBC Radio 4's In Our Time just did a show on Akhenaten, Nefertitit's husband, which discussed the significance of that bust (It's one of the few widely known images of a woman from the Ancient World).--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I generally support but the article has no references (footnotes). When this is fixed, I can post it. --Tone 18:03, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I will try to update this. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated. How is it now? The article still needs citations in some areas but at least the reopening paragraph has been fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:53, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Looks good. What about Neues Museum in Berlin, Germany, reopens after 70 years. I'd prefer to skip mentioning of Nefretiti because the bust was displayed in another museum all this time. --Tone 11:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:59, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


October 15

ITN candidates for October 15

EU and South Korea trade deal

"The deal would remove most of the trade tariffs between the two partners". Sounds significant. --candlewicke 09:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Ali Khamenei

I just noticed this. We might want to keep an eye on Ali Khamenei#Unconfirmed death reports of October 2009 to see if it gets officially confirmed. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

He seems to be regular target of such rumors. Wait and see.--yousaf465' 05:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Is he dead yet? --candlewicke 01:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
No, this was almost definitely a false news or hoax. Offliner (talk) 10:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Magnetic monopoles

Physicists have finally discovered magnetic monopoles. I don't have time to update the article now, but the Nature paper is at [30] and it's getting some (rather simplistic) news coverage (e.g. BBC [31]) Modest Genius talk 02:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Support, this is a pretty significant find. Article could use more of an update though (find is only mentioned in the lead at the moment) - Dumelow (talk) 12:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
support, this seems pretty groundbreaking--UltraMagnusspeak 12:26, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, if you read the paper carefully, those are not the real monopole particles but rather something that behaves this way. Besides, the first paper on this was published over a month ago. So I am not that enthusiastic about putting this on ITN. At least not as a blurb "Magnetic monopoles were discovered". --Tone 15:34, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Of course, these are quasi-particles, not free monopoles. This is the same situation as phonons and holes, but no-one denies the particle nature of these. Having re-read the Nature paper and talked this through with some solid-state physicists (I am only an astronomer), a more precise description would be "physicists determine the elemental charge of magnetic monopoles for the first time" and/or "physicists measure a magnetic current (magnetricity) for the first time". Quite how and where this would be incorporated into our articles is another matter. Modest Genius talk 17:35, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Multiple simultaneous attacks

I'm going to create the article.--yousaf465' 04:27, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Here is the article 2009 October Lahore attacks.--yousaf465' 07:08, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Notable event. Offliner (talk) 07:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Some well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 09:04, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
"Militants simultaneously attack three police facilities in Lahore, Pakistan, killing at least 26 people"? - Dumelow (talk) 12:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


October 14

ITN candidates for October 14

October 13

ITN candidates for October 13

Ceann Comhairle to resign

John O'Donoghue Ceann Comhairle of Dáil Éireann is to resign [32].  Cargoking  talk  17:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

This position is not equivalent to president or prime minister, is it? In that case, I oppose. --Tone 07:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
No, only the speaker.  Cargoking  talk  16:59, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Resignation of speaker in Westminster went in, so did nomination of the equivalent in Washington... Kevin McE (talk) 17:25, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I would not support any of those two... --Tone 17:33, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I will support and would most likely if it was another country too. If it is nominated and updated, why should it not go up when it isn't London or Washington? Since London and Washington have already been included I cannot therefore oppose. Particularly since it has so many similarities with the Martin case (The Australian even makes that comparison) and the expenses claims are no less questionable either, i.e. a £1 charity donation to UNICEF in Scotland, the limousines around Heathrow, Venice, Hong Kong, the Melbourne Cup, Ryder Cup in the United States, football matches across Europe in which Ireland was not even competing, the Cannes controversy. It seems he was carrying this out while abroad so many countries are brought into the affair. --candlewicke 19:19, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
What was the similar story reported regarding the US? In any case, I'm not sure the fact that equivalent events in the US and the UK mean that it must be reported if it happens in another country. We wouldn't posting the resignation of the speaker of parliament of Bermuda. Now, Ireland is not Bermuda and there are unusual circumstances here, so it is somewhat notable.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:01, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, The Times says this is the first time it has happened in Ireland if that helps. --candlewicke 20:09, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
(Bar one as a result of health.)  Cargoking  talk  20:32, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, since there seems to be a shortage and the article already has a section devoted to his resignation: John O'Donoghue resigns as Ceann Comhairle of Dáil Éireann after a controversy over his expenses. --candlewicke 02:02, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Congo expels Angolans

The Democratic Republic of Congo has expelled 20,000 Angolan citizens in retaliation for Angola's deportation of illegal Congolese miners. No idea where the article would be, perhaps Foreign relations of Angola? Seems like a pretty big event though (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 11:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. It could be added to the Angola or Democratic Republic of Congo article maybe. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Foreign relations of Angola is updated. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Nice work Susan. I see the story has progressed. Something along the lines of:"Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo agree to stop deporting each others citizens after recent expulsions of tens of thousands of people" would sum up the situation but it is a bit wordy. I am sure someone will come up with a better tagline - Dumelow (talk) 10:46, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure someone will at all now... --candlewicke 23:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


October 12

ITN candidates for October 12

Presidents Cup

The United States wins the 2009 Presidents Cup 19.5 to 14.5 -Deserted Cities (talk) 08:51, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Recurring item, surprised it hasn't been posted yet. Deserted Cities (talk) 08:54, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Because, per ITN policy, there needs to be a referenced prose update that summarises the final day's play --Daviessimo (talk) 19:34, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
It would appear that this is the 4th straight sports-related event on ITN/R that isn't being posted due to lack of references or similar issues. It's not really a matter of debate here since it's on ITN/R but I would question whether the the President's Cup is notable enough for ITN.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:52, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
It is odd that there is such huge interest in which sports and events should be included and that there are pages of discussion but then there is nobody to have them ready when the time comes... --candlewicke 20:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Death of Arturo "Zambo" Cavero

Thousands of people of people attended his state funeral and he was given a posthumous award. --candlewicke 03:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

  • Oppose See WP:ITN/DC. Not sufficiently notable. Grsz11 03:37, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Irish National Liberation Army puts down its weapons

"The Irish Republican Army (IRA) splinter group, responsible for some of the most notorious killings of the Northern Ireland conflict". "The objective of a 32-county socialist republic will be best achieved through exclusively peaceful political struggle". "Among its most infamous members was Dominic "Mad Dog" McGlinchey, once Ireland's most wanted men". Reaction. HRC was around to do some "bucking up" as well. --candlewicke 00:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Leaning toward support... although I wonder if they will really keep their words. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:49, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
The Irish National Liberation Army announces an end to its armed struggle. --candlewicke 01:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Nice work, but given the controversial nature of the article topic, I'd like to wait for someone else's support before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Well I think we should go ahead.--yousaf465' 02:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:37, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences

"Announcement of the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel will be held on Monday, October 12, 1:00 p.m. CET at the earliest." [33] --BorgQueen (talk) 16:33, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. Elinor Ostrom and Oliver E. Williamson won it. --bender235 (talk) 11:13, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
How about "Elinor Ostrom and Oliver E. Williamson win the 2009 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics." --Natrajdr (talk) 11:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. The article are updated. --Tone 12:01, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

October 11

ITN candidates for October 11

Nigerian road accident kills 70+

This seems much in excess of any regular traffic accident. Involving five minibuses and a petrol tanker 70+ killed on Friday. No article that I could find. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 23:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Support when created. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Support as well. --candlewicke 00:31, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Benedict XVI canonizes five new saints

Do we have articles on any of the latest saints? [34] To be honest, I am not a big fan of the Roman Catholic Church but this is probably a significant news for Christian population. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, we have Father Damien (pictured). --BorgQueen (talk) 14:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know... there are so many but perhaps five more at once is unusual. --candlewicke 14:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I think probably Father Damien alone is notable enough. According to the source above, "there is even a statue of Damien in the U.S. Congress." --BorgQueen (talk) 14:50, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I think this is a good ITN topic, we can write something like Pope canonizes 5 saints, among them Father Damien (pictured). The article is in good shape. --Tone 16:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Hold on. The other articles are in pretty poor shape. List of canonizations gives six names, two of which are still red links. Zygmunt Szczęsny Feliński is still a substub. Why should Father Damien be singled out? Physchim62 (talk) 18:19, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Precisely because the other articles are in pretty poor shape. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose in that case, until Zygmunt Szczęsny Feliński and Francisco Coll Guitart are properly updated/created. I've corrected the error on List of canonizations based on the Catholic News Agency report, which should be a fairly reliable source on such matters ;) Physchim62 (talk) 18:34, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
No, we don't have to update all articles relevant to the topic. (And really, you should have figured this out by now) Your opposition might be valid if I posted other latest saints as well; I don't think they are as notable as Damien anyway. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Death of Stephen Gately

Key figure is stretching it a bit, I think. --PlasmaTwa2 09:22, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Depends on the reaction though. Adding a few points for now. Link to the The New Zealand Herald and link to The Age covers two large countries in the southern hemisphere showing his popularity there. Early reaction from former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern here (notice how he works his book launch in — "he came to my book launch") "'Boyzone and Stephen, they've all been part of Irish life and far wider than that, the last 15 years, and so successful, so it's a huge, huge tragedy. It's so sad. He was 33 years of age, 15 years at the top, a fine musician, it's just a huge tragedy to Irish entertainment, Irish music and further afield as well." And are my eyes deceiving me but is this the most popular story on CNN? Shall have to watch this one for further reaction... --candlewicke 09:40, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
A few more tributes here. Top story on the BBC website as well but I suppose that's not so surprising. Top two stories in fact. --candlewicke 09:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I must agree with Plasma and say that it is a real stretch to call Gately a key figure. A check of his works, both solo and as part of Boyzone, shows significant popularity within his Irish homeland and some success within the UK but outside the British isles he appears to have been little more than a one-hit wonder. --Allen3 talk 10:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment: If hits are anything to go on or helps in any way he is currently #1 with 32,000+ hits. Boyzone is second with only 9,500... others in the top ten: Louis Walsh at eight and Ronan Keating at nine. Michael Jackson is only 13th... I don't know if it is possible to say that all those readers are in Ireland... --candlewicke 13:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose per death criteria. A sad, unexpected loss – yes. A key figure – no. Sorry, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 13:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

  • This death has garnered attention throughout the world, from Sweden to Hungary to the UK to Turkey, to name a few countries. He was an important member of one of the biggest music groups of the 90s. When you talk about 90s boybands, you've got New Kids on the Block, Backstreet Boys and 'N Sync in the US and Boyzone and Take That in Europe. That makes him important enough for ITN, in my opinion. I think Stephen Gately qualifies under rule 2: he was a very important figure in his field of expertise (pop music), and he was recognised as such. But even if he doesn't meet the strict letter of the criteria, he meets the spirit of it. I support putting this on ITN. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 13:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I have seen it mentioned in a lot of news sources in different languages, German, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Swedish, Italian, Polish, Czech, Slovakian, etc, not mention several with different alphabets. This is a very difficult one to judge as it does seem to be in a lot of places and top in popularity in a lot of places (and Wikipedia) too. Vietnam I think this one is... --candlewicke 14:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
CBC News have given him an obituary now and he's still very popular on CNN. So that's Europe, Asia, Australia, New Zealand and North America covered... --candlewicke 16:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per Rambo. --Tone 16:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Never heard of him. Anyway, I tried to find some coverage about him in Russia, and I noticed that there are only Wikipedia articles about him in 10 languages. For a person of major international note, that's a very small number of languages to be covered by in Wikipedia.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:54, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
"I've never heard of him" is just about the worst reason to oppose this. Read the article on Boyzone, see the amount of awards Boyzone has won, see the enormous media coverage all over the world. That shows you just how notable and significant Gately was. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm... platinum and gold albums and singles in Australia are hard to ignore... most definitely not the British Isles... can his importance be measured exclusively by the amount of Wikipedias which have articles? --candlewicke 17:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I wouldn't say WP articles are an exclusive factor, simply one of many. However I think only 10 languages is very low. By comparison, the band Oasis and Liam Gallagher, about whom there was some discussion of notability earlier, have considerably more.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
EDIT It's now 11 languages. Either I miscounted earlier or one's been added just now, which I would expect given the spike of attention.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:59, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure a sudden death at a young age in very mysterious circumstances is comparable to a split which was speculated upon for some time then stuttered into being only to take six weeks for one of them to verify it. It happened in August but was only confirmed a few days ago. They are also different genres and appeal to different audiences. Perhaps Boyzone are not the Oasis of pop and perhaps there is a higher interest in the well-being of rock music articles than pop music articles among Wikipedians? --candlewicke 17:56, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about the relative notability of either, frankly. My statement of 'never heard of them' is really a statement of my lack of knowledge of the subject rather than a comment on notability. However, I assume 'sudden death at a young age in mysterious circumstances' is comparable to Heath Ledger. I believe his death wasn't reported on ITN.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if Heath Ledger is comparable either. He may be known in less countries for instance. But, even so, that was nearly two years ago and ITN now seems to include a lot more deaths. Ledger's death was unfortunate timing, he might have a better chance now. --candlewicke 18:22, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Anyway, I feel reasonably certain that posting this on MP will cause massive protests. Some people are already frowning upon the frequency of death-related items on ITN, and his pop celebrity status will only serve to make it worse. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Yes, but it is difficult to ignore the widespread international attention across several continents within hours (look at the sources Cargoking provided from soon after it was announced), the fact that it is top story on many of these major news sites all day, the sudden nature of the death, the young age, and the fact that he is still the number one article on Wikipedia and has been all day—so I wonder how many of the almost 20,000 who viewed in the last hour alone would protest? Even Father Damien (with all due respect to him) is not that popular, managing only 7,000 when he is first put on the Main Page... this person might have been a celebrity but he had a career too even if his musical style may not have been to everybody's taste. He does seem important to pop music though. --candlewicke 19:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I'd say no. He's probably famous in popular culture, but we've had enough deaths of (anglophone) pop culture people on ITN. We should concentrate on real-life news items. Offliner (talk) 19:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
The death of a major artist is a real-life news item. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 19:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. His death is sad, but no, not notable enough in his field. Physchim62 (talk) 20:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
The leading singer of one of the most notable bands in the 90s? If that isn't notable, I don't know what is. So ITN can include the death of a former Japanese minister or the leader of an uprising 60 years ago, but not a modern-day singer? 94.212.31.237 (talk) 20:09, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
So what is a key figure? How many key figures does one "area of expertise" have? Was he among the top 5 pop vocalists in the world? Top 20? Top 100? How is "key-ness" determined? Kevin McE (talk) 23:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
By the way media cover his death, for instance. The death of an insignificant singer won't be mentioned across the world. If a singer is only of interest to one country, his death will only be covered in that country. In this case, his death has been covered around the world, by leading news media from Ireland to Hungary to Australia to Turkey to Sweden, you name it. That just shows how big Stephen Gately was. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 23:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
That proposal for a criteria depends enormously on other events on the same day. The death of Farah Fawcett Majors would undoubtedly have received far more coverage than it did if she had had the foresight to die a couple of days before Michael Jackson did so; Alice Stewart Trillin was probably not notable enough to have been listed even if Wikipedia had been about on the date of her death, but there again, who would have been? Press coverage is linked to popular appreciation, not "key-ness", and usually tabloid/celebrity criteria are carefully avoided in this project: lack of press coverage declared irrelevant in the case of UK Supreme Court last week. Kevin McE (talk) 05:48, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Press coverage is one measure, I never said it was the be all and end all. As I said, if a singer is insignificant, his death won't be covered, no matter how little other news there is that day. The fact that Stephen Gately's death has been covered across the world shows the enormous international interest in this case. Millions of people have probably come to Wikipedia to find more information about Stephen Gately. It is the most viewed article on Wikipedia at the moment. That should be saying something. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 07:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
It also says something that, according to that page, his article has already dropped out of the top ten. --PlasmaTwa2 21:42, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Hmm? Wikipedia was around on the date of her death History of Wikipedia#2001. ITN was, not in current form but the September 11 attacks were featured on the main page [35] and in fact they are often regarded as one of the early examples of wikipedia responding to recent events albeit in a manner many may not agree with today [36] [37]. Nil Einne (talk) 13:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Most searched topic on Google several days after his death. Two of the top three articles on Wikipedia at the moment concern him. --candlewicke 20:57, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


October 10

ITN candidates for October 10

Plane crash

[38] -- TouLouse (talk) 16:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Support, there are a lot of countries mentioned in that article. Worldwide news. Al Bawaba ABC News Xinhua CTV News RIA Novosti Sky News Sify Momento 24 Thaindian News Zimbabwe News The New York Times. It is even on CNN. --candlewicke 18:40, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Pakistan attack

Militants attack the Pakistan Army HQ in Islamabad, resulting in the deaths of eight army personnel and four militants. Two militants apparently remain at large. There doesn't seem to be an article on the HQ (see Structure of the Pakistan Army), but this is probably a candidate for a new article.(BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 09:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Well nothing special there. I don't think it needs a mention on ITN.--yousaf465' 14:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Here is the article 2009 Pakistan Army General Headquarter attack.--yousaf465' 14:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
What so an attack on a army General HQ is not notable? This is not some outpost that got attacked this is the main HQ of the entire Pakistan Army (similar to the Pentagon) so I think it counts as "special" - Dumelow (talk) 18:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Definite support if that is the case. BBC says there is a major hostage situation underway there now as well. --candlewicke 18:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Further info. This attack was on "Pakistan's main army headquarters". Fifteen people have been taken hostage and the dead include a brigadier and a lt-colonel. The main target may have been army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who was inside the complex on the day of the attack. (Telegraph) Our article is quite short and needs updating/expansion before it can go up - Dumelow (talk) 21:21, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated and expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Is there enough prose there to post even it's a bit disorganised right now. At least ten people are killed in an attack on the General Headquarter of the Pakistan Army in Rawalpindi. --candlewicke 03:09, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Need Help. This is going to be bit too large. SO i need help with it. My pc is also not working correctly, so pl update it. A list of links can be found here Links on the right side.--yousaf465' 07:11, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Candlewicke and I have done some expansion/cleaning up. Hopefully it should be OK now. Perhaps: "The Pakistani Special Service Group frees forty hostages held after militants attacked the Army's General Headquarters" - Dumelow (talk) 12:03, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps mention the deaths as well... --candlewicke 12:40, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Great job, thanks Candlewicke and Dumelow, for the help. I'm still stucked here, going without antivirus is something really dangerous thing to do.The P.M and IM's reaction can be found in CBS source. Reactions is also pouring in from Pakistani leadership. Also Daily Jang and The News are same newspaper in two different languages. Both officer have been laid to rest. Rallies all over Pakistan in support of Army. Rehman Malik pointed towards weapons being supplied from sources in Afghanistan. Indian PM react to it. Hopefully I'm o.k in the morning. --yousaf465' 13:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:38, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Armenia–Turkey relations

Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Also support. Aside from the history of the two nations, this has broader international significance, as the issue is part of the domestic politics of several countries, such as France and the US.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Historic event. Offliner (talk) 05:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
A more recent source: [39] Apparently they haven't signed yet (will do today). --BorgQueen (talk) 13:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. there is some problem with the meeting I think. Some delay ?--yousaf465' 14:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. [40] --BorgQueen (talk) 16:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Ties have now been "normalised" according to the above source. --candlewicke 18:24, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
BBC must have updated the link since. Are you going to update the article accordingly? --BorgQueen (talk) 18:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't have time just now but will do it later if nobody else wants to do it. --candlewicke 18:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
The foreign ministers of Armenia and Turkey meet in Zurich, Switzerland to sign an accord intended to normalise their relations. --candlewicke 23:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Super League Grand Final

  • The 2009 SL grand final takes place today at Old Trafford. It's listed on ITNR along with the NRL final, which wasn't posted because it wasn't properly updated in time. Hopefully this will be --Daviessimo (talk) 07:45, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Support per ITNR. Article has been updated with result but is still in future tense (in places) and probably could use a bit of expansion. There is a free pic of the final at File:2009 Super League Grand Final 001.jpg - Dumelow (talk) 22:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
The article is skeletal and could do with a lot of expansion... the NRL final was longer. --candlewicke 23:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

October 9

ITN candidates for October 9

Elections

  • The Czech Republic also elects a parliament today and a new Prime Minister to replace temporary PM Jan Fischer - Dumelow (talk) 17:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC) (Delayed until June 2010)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Support, for both follow the SOP.--yousaf465' 02:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment. If the Czechs do go to the polls today, that really would be news. our article on the subject has them voting in June 2010. Physchim62 (talk) 08:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
You are correct, this was delayed at some point in the middle of September and is now scheduled for June 2010. Striking nom. The Botswana one was also delayed so I have moved it to future events - Dumelow (talk) 08:19, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Nobel Peace Prize

Obama won. I'll wait for some more updates before putting this up. --Tone 09:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Now on cnn.com[41]. Awarded for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples Vyvyan Basterd (talk) 09:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, but let's keep the picture of Herta Müller for a while. --Hapsala (talk) 09:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Agree, I think we know what Obama looks like by now, but Müller is also a Nobel Prize winner, and we have a decent free image of her, so why not use it for a while longer. Physchim62 (talk) 10:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry but that was an awful picture of her. If we had a better one I would be delighted to put her back up. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
It was better the the ones in this morning's Spanish press, I can assure you! Physchim62 (talk) 10:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Can the item link to 2009 Nobel Peace Prize instead of the Nobel Peace Prize article ? The 2009 article that I just seeded could use the extra eyes and the extra hands. Abecedare (talk) 12:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

LCROSS

NASA's LCROSS (booster part) is going to smash into moon in hopes of proving there is vast amount of water on the poles. Fairly big since not every day NASA smashes stuff into moon. -- Ashish-g55 21:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Support (assuming updated etc.). Article is at LCROSS. This will consist of impacting part of the spacecraft into the moon at 5,600 mph to raise a dust cloud of 350 tonnes of lunar material which will be analysed by the LCROSS instrument. LCROSS will then itself impact into the moon. These will apparently be visible through some amateur telescopes. Seems pretty notable whether or not they find water - Dumelow (talk) 21:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
NASA's LCROS satellite strikes the Moon after launching a Centaur booster rocket at the Cabeus crater in order to search for water.
When this happens, would someone like to update the article? I've got the headline hidden in the template for when we need it. Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 22:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
P.S. LCROS isn't a typo in this case; LCROSS' last 's' stands for Satellite, so I figured I'd just separate it from the main acronym to make it more informative. Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 22:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
How about "intentionally" impacts the moon? As written, it isn't obvious that this was the planned function as opposed to an accident. Dragons flight (talk) 23:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm fine with such a change but I would say "launching ... booster rocket at ... crater" and "order to search for water" says it was a planned function Nil Einne (talk) 09:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, has generated global interest. Hindustan Times Xinhua Al Jazeera The Belfast Telegraph Toronto Star Brisbane Times. And millions apparently watched it live. --candlewicke 13:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, but when I looked about half-an-hour ago, there was still updating to do in the text of the article. If nobody else get's round to it, I'll do it later, but I have the plumbers in at the moment so I can't do it this minute! Physchim62 (talk) 14:02, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
I just updated most of the text; put everything in past-tense, etc. Also, in response to Dragon's concerns, I've changed the hook;
I've added 'successfully' to imply that this was, after all, intended. Also, two commas for ease of reading.
Now, someone feel free to revert me on this, but we've had Obama pictures up every second day; I thought that it might be fun if we could look at a satellite for a while instead. :P Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 14:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
LCROSS needs 2 S -- Ashish-g55 14:47, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
I covered that above! :P Just stating "LCROSS" would be confusing at first to anyone who hasn't heard of this (there are a lot of people who haven't, trust me). The last S of LCROSS stands for 'satellite', anyway, so there's no reason not to separate it. Or I could just say "LCROSS probe", I guess... which do you think is better? Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 14:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
well abbreviation used everywhere is LCROSS even in article so i think LCROSS "probe/spacecraft" is better. -- Ashish-g55 14:54, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Wordier, but you're right. Alright, I'll go change it. :) Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 15:06, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
ya i know if you say the whole thing "Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite Spacecraft" then it doesnt really make any sense. but what can you do NASA chose to put satellite in the abv. -- Ashish-g55 15:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
This is just one of those things we'll have to hate NASA for, I guess. :P Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 15:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Ugly neologism alert. Impact is not an established verb in formal language, and if it can be justified as a verb, which I would shudder at, it certainly would need a preposition before the object noun. Kevin McE (talk) 16:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Changing the verb tense here moves away from the established norm, I think. Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 16:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Errr, he hasn't changed the tense: the main clause is still in the present tense. Kevin McE (talk) 17:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Wait, you're right, I totally missed that 'makes'. I dunno, it's wordier but proper (we had "strikes" earlier, but that sounded a bit silly). I can instate it if that's what the masses want. Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 18:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

October 8

ITN candidates for October 8

Indian embassy attack

this is not schadenfreude, but there hasnt been an attack on the main page in awhile.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihaas (talkcontribs) 11:44, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

17 dead + Afghanistan sounds a bit ordinary. Is there anything significant about this attack? Is it the deadliest since a certain period, etc... --candlewicke 19:29, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Also where is the article ? No article yet identified. --yousaf465' 02:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
An attack on an embassy installation has greater ramification than an IED attack.
As for the link, someone removed from the link above. I'm adding it here and above. "*An attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul kills at least 17 and injures 83."
Strong support
An attack near the Indian embassy in Kabul kills at least 17 and injures 83.
This is a significant story simply because the target was an embassy. Any attack on an embassy, be it in Afghanistan or Iraq, has serious repercussions in international politics. The last terror attack on Indian embassy led to major deterioration of Indo-Pakistan relations and also caused India to deploy more security personnel in Afghanistan. Already there are calls of India formally participating in the International Security Assistance Force. --Nosedown (talk) 05:37, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Nobel Prize in Literature

Already? Who won? --candlewicke 19:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Same routine as for the others. Let's wait to see who wins to see what needs doing. Physchim62 (talk) 19:46, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Woah, is it tomorrow already?! - Dumelow (talk) 21:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
How about: The Romanian-born German novelist Herta Müller (pictured) is awarded the 2009 Nobel Prize in Literature. --Hapsala (talk) 11:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
How about: The Romanian-born German novelist Herta Müller (pictured) will be awarded the 2009 Nobel Prize in Literature on December 10th. Better not use "award" as a verb? Just "wins" would do. --74.14.17.193 (talk) 11:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree, but my Nobel nominations including "wins" or "goes to" have always been changed to "awarded" by the administrators in charge of ITN postings. --Hapsala (talk) 11:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Really? I don't see that on the main page. --74.14.17.193 (talk) 11:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I prefer "awarded", and that's what I've used in articles. It isn't some sort of closed competition like an Olympic final where you 'beat' your opponents. "Goes to" would be fine by me as well, but I don't like "win". The article has been updated with the basic information, so I'm OK: as with the others, it will probably be developed further over the afternoon. Physchim62 (talk) 11:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I initially thought so, until I saw the notice "Please be reminded that annual Nobel prizes are awarded on the anniversary of Alfred Nobel's death in December, ****** NOT in October. ****** ". [42] --BorgQueen (talk) 13:42, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

October 7

ITN candidates for October 7

Carl Jung's Red Book

The publisher and the museum say it could be the most influential unpublished work in psychology. 10 pages in the New York Times say it was a hard decision by the family to go ahead with this. In mid-September before it was available, the Red Book was Amazon.com's #3 bestseller. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:10, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:26, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. People who stand to make money from the publication claim it's important? So what? According to our article, 'as of September 2009, only about two dozen people had seen it'. Unless there's some serious academic evidence that this is important, I don't see why we should be featuring it. Modest Genius talk 00:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. No one saw it for about eighty years because Jung's heirs declined all inquiries. Also from the article, "During the sixteen years he worked on the book, Jung developed his theories of archetypes, collective unconscious, and individuation." So it boils down for me to the importance of the author (vs. Freud with whom he had a falling out). -SusanLesch (talk) 01:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
I nominated this two weeks ago in future events. Maybe we could have discussed it at the time (I'm not sure Modest Genius understands why nobody saw the Red Book until today). -SusanLesch (talk) 16:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. This is Carl Jung and this is psychoanalysis. Personally, I think it's a load of ****, but I'll admit that we're not talking about just any pseudoscientific text here. This one seems notable, and why shouldn't we give psychoanalysis it's little day on the Main Page, given the number of people who believe in it. Physchim62 (talk) 19:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Notable precisely because its contents are unknown. (Also worth nothing that much as Jung and Freud have proven to have little by way of clinical applicability in modern psychology, they're both enormously influential theorists and still very much the object of ongoing study in the humanities.) The Tom (talk) 19:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Belated support since I was so kindly asked. :) --candlewicke 19:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Nobel Prize in Chemistry

Support in a few hours. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. --Hapsala (talk) 04:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
NO support till all relevant wikiarticles get properly updated, + refs. --PFHLai (talk) 04:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Let's wait and see who wins it first! That will determine what needs doing. There are several editors waiting to see what needs doing, but we won't know until about 1000 UTC. Physchim62 (talk) 07:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
I wrote about this on Signpost more than three months ago: "I think our particular trial by ordeal [for WP:CHEM] comes in early October each year, when the Nobel Prize for Chemistry is announced." Physchim62 (talk) 08:03, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Usual Support , get them updated and write a Line, ask a admin. Simple SOP.--yousaf465' 07:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
We need to hold on a while while the articles are properly updated: luckily, ribosome is already pretty good, we don't need to write it from scratch like in some other years! Physchim62 (talk) 10:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. I think the balance is now on the pedants to ask what more updating is needed. Physchim62 (talk) 14:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:32, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Discovery of giant planetary ring

 
Artists impression of the Phoebe ring which dwarfs the main rings.
Support -SusanLesch (talk) 02:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated well. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone come up with a well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:10, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
What about "Newly discovered Phoebe ring of Saturn is hundreds of times larger than the planet and could explain strange coloring of Saturn's moon Iapetus" Charvest (talk) 02:14, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Great, but I think it should be "the Phoebe ring" rather than "Phoebe ring". Charvest (talk) 02:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
So fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Thankyou. Charvest (talk) 02:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


October 6

ITN candidates for October 6

Dalai Lama is awarded the first-ever Lantos Human Rights Prize

[43] Could anyone create the Lantos Human Rights Prize article? --BorgQueen (talk) 21:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Why is the award important though? I recall that the Presidential Medal of Freedom was awarded to several international figures recently. This seems to be a more important American award in my opinion. It was not posted which I think was probably the correct decision. And this prize has been awarded for the first time? Was it created especially for him? There are a lot of unclear or unanswered questions about this one so I'm not sure. It is difficult to tell its importance if it has just been created but it does not seem to even be the highest award the country has to offer international figures. --candlewicke 18:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Object, nominator should create the article herself, describing in at least 1500 words (and at least three references) why the prize is notable. Physchim62 (talk) 19:07, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Man Booker Prize

Support (in case). --candlewicke 20:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I've updated Hilary Mantel regarding the victory, although there is, as of yet, no article for the book itself. I'm not sure if thats an issue though --Daviessimo (talk) 21:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. I can't see any reason why we would need an article on the book itself, though this would obviously be useful. Modest Genius talk 22:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

African UnionMadagascar

Breakthrough! --candlewicke 20:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Chile sentences generals, colonels over murder

Chile has sentenced two former generals and two former colonels over the murder of Colonel Gerardo Huber who testified against the military in the case of an illegal arms shipment from Croatia in 1992. Huber went missing in 1992 and was said by the police of the time to have committed suicide. The ex-officers have received sentences of two to eight years in prison. How often do such high ranking officers get convicted of murder? (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 20:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Not very. Four certainly seems to be a lot. Support. --candlewicke 19:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
I have updated the article. If this gets some more support a possible blurb: "Four former Chilean Army officers are convicted of the 1991 murder of Colonel Gerardo Huber over an illegal arms deal with Croatia" - Dumelow (talk) 21:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Typhoon Parma

Typhoon Parma has made another landfall, on Northern Luzon and thus i think it is about time i ask for it to go up on ITN. I know at the minute the article does look a bit like SH1T but i will be having a go at it later to try and bring the MH up to date and hopefully improve it.Jason Rees (talk) 13:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there an article for India where the death toll is now 269? --candlewicke 20:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I think that was caused by a very weak disturbance that was being monitored for development into a depression by the IMD but since it did not develop into a depression it can not go into the 2009 NIO TC season article. So i suggest it gets lumped with the monsoon article.Jason Rees (talk) 20:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, this would have been better at its first landfall I think. I suggest we wait for Melor's Japan landfall, since Parma's second landfall isn't that notable. –Juliancolton | Talk 22:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Idelphonse Nizeyimana

From the BBC. Physchim62 (talk) 10:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I might support if prosecuted. An arrest is otherwise non-notable. Anyway, there is practically no update, the article is under referenced and not even past 1500 of prose.  Cargoking  talk  11:00, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Let's wait for a verdict. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
We put up the arrest of Radovan Karadžić [44], and I'm sure we'd do the same for Ratko Mladić. The arrest of a (an alleged) reginicide on the warrant of an international court seems more notable than most. The article is better referenced than most BLPs. Physchim62 (talk) 12:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
There is a twelve year manhunt to consider for Karadžić... --candlewicke 20:13, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I understand the usual policy of waiting until a conviction for these criminal news items, but I think this is far more notable most high-profile arrests. It's an arrest for the crime of genocide. Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Verdict. --candlewicke 20:13, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Fifteeen year man hunt, with a $US5 million dollar reward on his head, for Nizeyimana. I really can't understand the double standard. This is a far more relevant arrest than Roman Polanski's, yet I have the impression that those contributors who are replying "let's wait for the verdict" are arguing over that last situation. Yes, this is a person who is accused of things that were done a long time ago, and a long way away from most of our users. On the other hand, this is an international court which ordered his arrest, with accusations of fairly heinous crimes. This is the same situation as for Karadžić, and the same situation as for Mladić. We don't have one rule for black victims of genocide and another for white victims of genocide, surely? Physchim62 (talk) 14:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Polanski was not posted. I don't believe any arrests have been posted this year so that may be the reason. But will it be posted if I say support now? Probably not. But since he has been arrested he is sure to have his day when he is sentenced. Or is declared not guilty. Or dies before sentencing. Or even escapes. All those situations present more likely support from others. --candlewicke 19:03, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Nobel Prize in Physics

  • To be announced today. All the others will be announced daily for the next few days. Should we only put up when they are actually presented, or update ITN daily with updates (note:This is listed at WP:ITNR)?  Cargoking  talk  07:36, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Traditionally, we put them up when they are announced, that's one a day for the coming week. Physchim62 (talk) 08:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Wow, that was quick! Tomorrow it's chemistry. Physchim62 (talk) 10:39, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I've reverted; the articles have to be properly updated with citations first. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:In_the_news#Updated_content: "The decision as to when an item is updated 'enough' is subjective, but a five sentence update (with at minimum three references, not counting duplicates) has generally been considered more than sufficient, while a one sentence update is considered extremely questionable." --BorgQueen (talk) 10:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Are you serious? --bender235 (talk) 10:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, why? I am willing to accept two sentence update with just one citation in this case. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:00, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
By the way, I am not the one who wrote the paragraph I quoted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:01, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Out of interest, who did?  Cargoking  talk  11:03, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
This is the answer. BanyanTree wrote it.  Cargoking  talk  11:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
(ec) The current format appears to have been created by User:BanyanTree, and later slightly revised by User:Spencer. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
It would be rather simpler just to do the update rather than arguing about it. BorgQueen could have done that herself – it's taken me less than three minutes to add the reference to the three pages – rather than acting as the zealous protector of the rules. Physchim62 (talk) 11:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Exactly. --bender235 (talk) 11:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
No, I don't have to do that myself. It is basically the nominator's responsibility to properly update the article if required, since he/she is the one who wants to see it on Main Page. Getting featured on Main Page is not a right. It is a previlege. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:32, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
My point was that you would have saved your own and everybody else's time by fetching a reference from the official site of the Nobel Foundation and adding it to the articles – that is, improving the encyclopedia – rather than just acting like a blind cop. Physchim62 (talk) 12:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
And in fact User:Physchim62 has added just one sentence with one citation each, which is normally considered insufficient, but if consensus approves that is fine with me. Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I never pretended to do any more than simply add the reference. What more do you want? There should be no worry that there is nobody to be "privileged" here – that should actually be the norm on Main Page contributions, not the rare exception that it has become today. We are here to provide a service to our users, not to spread privileges among ourselves in an ever more incestuous circle of regular editors. Physchim62 (talk) 12:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Physchim62, please be reminded that we are all volunteers here and no one is really obligated to do anything for other users. And, BorgQueen is also involved at DYK. You can't expect her or anyone to work on multiple templates of MainPage at the same time. Pointing out deficiencies and let fellow Wikipedians work on things is perfectly alright in the collaborative project, esp. when more than one place in the wiki need attention. Furthermore, there is no need to bring up things like "blind cop", "privileges" or even "incestuous circle...". Sigh... --PFHLai (talk) 04:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Could the two blurbs be merged together? It is taking up a bit of space.  Cargoking  talk  12:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
The thing is, if there is no other news this week, ITN will only consist if Nobels. My suggestion is one is removed or it says something like this: People win the Nobel for ... and More people win the Nobel for ... .  Cargoking  talk 
@Cargoking: No, please don't. That wording sounds way amateurish, don't you think? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
What I meant to say was: Charles K. Kao, Willard S. Boyle and George E. Smith win the 2009 Nobel Prize in Physics and Elizabeth Blackburn, Carol W. Greider and Jack W. Szostak win the 2009 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. (The people and more people thing was only because I wasn't going to bother cutting and pasting the names of the people.)  Cargoking  talk  13:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
So how did that work out for you? :P --Daviessimo (talk) 16:11, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
A lot of my Wikipedia work involves cutting and pasting (not copyrighted material, obviously). I just wasn't bothered to open a new tab and copy the names of yesterday's winners. By the way, anyone want to comment further on my above suggestion?  Cargoking  talk  16:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
well we know that nobel prizes will be awarded consecutively in coming days so how about a temporary list type format. instead of a blurb for each prize. so basically separate them from rest of the news (just for coming days). -- Ashish-g55 16:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think so. I am happy with the current wording, for the sake of consistency. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
It's only for a few days. Don't waste too much time developing a new format. Chances are that by the time we hammer out a new format that everyone is happy with, some of the Nobel announcements will be old news and need to be taken down. --PFHLai (talk) 04:28, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
I suppose giving everyone their own space is more nobel. :p  Cargoking  talk  15:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


October 5

ITN candidates for October 5

ICC Champions Trophy

  • The 2009 ICC Champions Trophy is due to conclude. It is second only to the World Cup in one-day cricket and will have plenty of international interest with participants from Europe, the Caribbean, Australasia, Africa and Asia --Daviessimo (talk) 11:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
I avoided listing this on WP:ITNR because it's not the 'top level' of competition in one-day cricket (which as you note is the Cricket World Cup). Personally, I think we should stick with just listing the World Cup and not the Champions Trophy. Modest Genius talk 22:32, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine

2009 Nobel Prize recipients will be announced the following two weeks. The winner for Medicine will be revealed today. (AFP) --bender235 (talk) 06:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. --bender235 (talk) 11:56, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Usual ITN stuff.--yousaf465' 14:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support I am surprised that although announced 5 hours ago, it is still not on the main page. Nergaal (talk) 15:27, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
That makes two of us. No admin in sight to update ITN? --bender235 (talk) 15:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support It should have already been made a headline. Moumouza (talk) 16:50, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Admins, admins, come out wherever you are!  Cargoking  talk  18:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:19, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support as well, this one should be easier than the rest, in that we have good pages that cover the topics. I hate to imagine what will happen for the rest of the week. Physchim62 (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry. By tradition, all Nobel Prize awards are observed by ITN. ;) --Hapsala (talk) 20:35, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted per the overwhelming demands, but honestly the updates aren't that much. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Thailand trail derailment

[45]SpaceFlight89 08:17, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Support if there's an article. --candlewicke 20:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Bomb blast near UN office, Islamabad

[46]SpaceFlight89 08:17, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Nothing special. Not many deaths nor is it clear whether it a planted bomb, or suicide attack. --yousaf465' 02:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Last Nigerian delta rebel surrenders weapons

This seems like something of a breakthrough. The last prominent militant leader in Nigeria's oil-rich delta region has given up his weapons and accepted a government amnesty. Although several thousand rebels have not surrendered and new leaders are expected to emerge this step seems pretty important. (BBC). Articles at Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta and Conflict in the Niger Delta, neither updated yet - Dumelow (talk) 08:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Well many new might may rebel. It's bit tricky.--yousaf465' 14:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


October 4

ITN candidates for October 4

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish root

This is a big news but I suppose this can never be put on ITN for the WP:BLP issues? --BorgQueen (talk) 22:23, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Probably not. --candlewicke 23:28, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, agree with Candlewicke. Even without BLP considerations, I can't say it has too much importance (even though its ironic/interesting). SpencerT♦Nominate! 02:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
It could have been better placed at DYK if that article could have been expanded 5 times. No need to place it on main page, interesting but can't be placed on main page.--yousaf465' 04:35, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Strong oppose. Just no. Physchim62 (talk) 13:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
No. Colipon+(Talk) 21:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Death of Aleksandre Basilaia

My turn... he was "eminent" anyway. And from Georgia. --candlewicke 15:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Not surprisingly, we just got a complaint about the recent abundance of deaths on ITN... --BorgQueen (talk) 15:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Well the way to counter that is to be present and participate here surely? I can't recall there being two individual deaths at once in the same way as is very often the case with several elections, sports or natural disasters... I don't see what the issue is... why should Poland, Japan, Georgia, Argentina, etc. not have their deaths represented when they occur if they receive support? --candlewicke 16:21, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose because it wasn't unexpected. -18:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Too many deaths, sometimes it's too many crashes this time too many deaths. Follow the rules it will clear up.--yousaf465' 04:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
No article yet? Guess he's not famous enough then. ... (talk) 06:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Guess not. --candlewicke 20:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Death of Mercedes Sosa

"An Argentine singer who was immensely popular throughout Latin America"? Oh yes, she was certainly an important person then... --candlewicke 15:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose because it wasn't unexpected. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Very famous and loved artist, all over the world - not just in Argentia ro South America. Here in Israel the news about her death opened the news on the radio at noon, and was covered on all TV main evening news broadcasts. eman (talk)
More international coverage to consider now that it has become available. Al Jazeera Bangkok Post The Daily Telegraph France 24 The Washington Post Reuters India Al Jazeera says she was the "voice of Latin America", The Daily Telegraph calls her "the voice of the voiceless ones" and Reuters calls her "the voice of the silent majority". She even gets an obituary on CNN as well as a mention by the BBC which is surely a good sign... --candlewicke 23:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I have updated this now so length is hopefully no longer an issue. The President has declared three days of national mourning, thousands have queued to view her body, she worked with Pavarotti, Bocelli, Shakira, Sting, she received international attention when she was detained by the government in 1979, popularised the works of Brazilian and Cuban songwriters, sold out Carnegie Hall and the Coliseum just seven years ago, is still relevant and has three Grammy nominations to be decided next month... is that enough? Argentine singer Mercedes Sosa dies of renal failure in Buenos Aires aged 74. --candlewicke 01:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Any more support?  Cargoking  talk  21:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Three days of mourning is quite long isn't it? For non head of state/government anyway. ... (talk) 06:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes. Well? Time to post? --candlewicke 20:16, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Death of Shōichi Nakagawa

Is the unexpected death of a former Japanese minister who caused a scandal at a G7 meeting good enough for ITN? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

A death should only be placed on ITN if it meets one of the following criteria:
(a) the deceased was in a high ranking office of power at the time of death,  
(b) the deceased was a key figure in their field of expertise, and died unexpectedly or tragically,  
(c) the death has a major international impact that affects current events. The modification or creation of multiple articles to take into account the ramifications of a death is a sign that it meets the third criterion.  --  Cargoking  talk  11:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. B though... the deceased was a key figure in their field of expertise, and died unexpectedly or tragically... the second bit is certainly true... and he may very well have been key... he was on the international stage in Rome when that incident happened... after that 70-year-old American Senator's death from cancer I'm inclined to support this one... a Finance Minister versus a Senator? No contest for me... cue pandemonium... --candlewicke 11:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I am not going to get too involved (I learnt by lesson from Ted), but I think the (a) cancels out (b). Does a resigned finance minister count as a pro?  Cargoking  talk  11:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Nakagawa was regarded as one of the party’s “aces,” according to Makoto Haga, chief strategist at Monex Group Inc. in Tokyo, who called his death a “painful blow” to a party that needs to rebuild. Sounds like it might be as relevant to Japan as Kennedy's death was to America... I believe Japan has many readers too... --candlewicke 11:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Al Jazeera says "The event (in Rome) hurt the credibility of the Liberal Democrat Party (LDP) government, that lost power in elections at the end of August". And also... "Nakagawa had been seen as a potential prime ministerial candidate at one time, and had held various cabinet positions, including agriculture minister and trade minister". Wasn't Kennedy also thought of as a Presidential candidate in his country before some scandal or other happened? --candlewicke 11:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Australia's ABC News says he caused "a major embarrassment for Japan's government". --candlewicke 11:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Sky News: "A rising political star and a potential prime minister. He was a close ally of then prime minister Taro Aso. Mr Aso said he was "too shocked to think of any words to say" after hearing the announcement. --candlewicke 12:01, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
His party ended "virtually half a century of uninterrupted rule" after it "crashed to defeat", according to euronews. --candlewicke 12:03, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Seems to be in the news across the world: Press Trust of India France 24 iafrica There are certainly lots of international sources available. --candlewicke 12:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) I think I will wait for someone else's support before posting, since this apparently is a borderline case. Anyway we need some time until we can get more details about his death, i.e. whether it was an accident, suicide or (although not likely) murder. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Support when cause of death is known. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I have updated this now with sources from lots of continents so length hopefully isn't an issue. I suggest (just in case it is necessary) Former Japanese Minister of Finance Shōichi Nakagawa is found dead in his Tokyo apartment aged 56. --candlewicke 00:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Honestly, this sent shockwaves across all of Japan today, and if this were say, Tim Geithner or Henry Paulson (let alone Ted Kennedy), there would be no question for it to be on the front page. Colipon+(Talk) 21:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

125 205 people washed away in rivers

Has this one been covered? I'm afraid I've lost track of all this stormy weather... --candlewicke 10:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. Any sign of an article?  Cargoking  talk  10:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know... is it yet another separate incident? --candlewicke 11:06, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Or is it tail end of a typhoon or something?  Cargoking  talk  11:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe someone from the area can clarify... they're all merging together in my head and I'm wondering if any more have been missed... --candlewicke 11:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
205 dead now (if this is the same one). --candlewicke 14:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Its from a cyclone in the BOB but its not tropical me suspects something to do with the monsoon.Jason Rees (talk) 15:47, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Pope and Africa and more...

Pope kicks off three-week meeting with Catholic bishops and delegates from Orthodox, Anglican and Protestant churches in 53 African countries + 47 bishops from outside Africa (incl. 34 representatives from Europe, 10 from North and South America, two from Asia and one from Australia) + 1 Muslim added to The Catholic Church is growing faster in Africa than in any other part of the world, nearly trebling in size to 150 million followers over 30 years = possible ITN maybe? BBC says this is the second ever occurrence of this, the last was in 1994. There is synod but no Synod on Africa or Synod of Bishops for Africa (which is the official title?). --candlewicke 08:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Not sure. Without an article to even consider, it's hard to establish some notability even with the news articles. SpencerT♦Nominate! 02:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Spencer. ... (talk) 06:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

NRL Grand Final

The world's premier domestic rugby competition draws to a close on Sunday 4 October as the NRL Grand Final is held in Sydney, Australia at ANZ Stadium. [47] --Thatsgold (talk) 05:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

National Championships do not go up on ITN --Daviessimo (talk) 20:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I suppose this must be the rugby equivalent of the Premier League? --candlewicke 21:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
This occurs at the same time as the AFL Grand Final, and since we'll add that since it's at ITNR, and we omit the NRL, we can be accused of pro-Melbourne/anti-Sydney bias. –Howard the Duck 14:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
You do realise they are two different sports?? --Daviessimo (talk) 14:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. Melbourne follows the AFL more closely (like there a ton of AFL teams there), while Sydneysiders follow rugby league. –Howard the Duck 15:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Just for clarification that's rugby league, not rugby union. The problem with rugby league is that while there's a world cup, it's not generally held in as high regard as the NRL in Australia. Ditto for four-nations. In other words, this is a somewhat similar situation to the Superbowl or the World Series or the NBA or perhaps even the Stanley Cup? in that it's arguaby the highest form of the game even if it's largely a national championship. Also we commonly have the best club championship for most sports. The trouble is that while the NRL involves more top players then the Superleague and so you could probably say it is the highest form of the game, it doesn't have much following outside of Oceania AFAIK, rugby league followers in Europe are more likely to be interested in the Superleague. This is somewhat akin to the situation with the Heinekin Cup and Super14 in rugby union. Having said all that this is currently not listed at recurring events, so of we want to change that, we should discuss that there not here. Nil Einne (talk) 20:50, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd suggest ditching the 2 rugby league items at WP:INTR and replace it with this one. –Howard the Duck 15:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
To be honest I don't think the NRL is that much better than the Superleague and the gap (if there is one) is most certainly nowhere near that of US sports. If you look at the winners of World Club Challenge it's not as if Aussie teams are waltzing away with it (five of the last six winners are Superleague teams). My initial objection was based upon the notion that as a national championship, putting it up would set a precedent for other national leagues going up. I still stand by this, however if there is support for the NRL to go up, then it is only fair that the Superleague goes up as well --Daviessimo (talk) 17:39, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
How about the AFL then? Both should have the same status, if one of them is added, then the other should be too, and vice versa. –Howard the Duck 03:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
And is the World Club Challenge like the FIFA Club World Cup, a competition the competiting teams don't take that seriously? –Howard the Duck 03:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I wouldn't say teams don't take them seriously, but because they are effectively ceremonial tournaments, winning them carries no weight. Its no different from the Confederations Cup or European Super Cup either. On team's honours lists, these types of competitions will often be valued below the national league (e.g. Premier League), the national cup (e.g. FA Cup) and the primary regional international cup competition (e.g. Champions League). In the case of Europe, secondary domestic (e.g. League Cup) and regional international competitions (e.g. UEFA Cup) are also more highly valued.
But I digress. I presume the AFL goes up, because it is like American football or the World Series, in that it is by and far the highest level of its sport in the world. The Superleague and NRL issue is different because both are top leagues and are generally equal, so putting one up without the other is unfair. --Daviessimo (talk) 07:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm still of the opinion that the NRL is in most regards a more competitive league then the Superleague but don't really suggest we put up one without the other because of the reasons of the diffusion of interest, regardless of their relative positions. Also as I mentioned we already do this for rugby union (and again I would argue the Super 14/15 is clearly a more competitive form then the Heineken Cup).
Regardless as I mentioned, I think the bigger point is the comparison of the NRL/Superleague to the World Cup and Tri/Four Nations. Definitely as far as I'm aware there is far less interest in the Tri/Four Nations then there is of the NRL/Superleague in Australia. Even the Rugby League State of Origin probably gets more interest then the Tri/Four Nations. Perhaps not quite so much in NZ unless the Warriors are performing well, but even then I don't think the Tri/Four Nations is an extremely clear favourite. I'm guessing something similar in Europe. The World Club Challenge is very far off, to be honest I wasn't even aware it was still being played (I had the idea there was something but didn't find anything from a quick search so presumed it was dead). Perhaps it's just the timing (since others sports are getting more airtime when it's played) but this is supported by the article "it will always be seen as nothing more than a preseason warm up game by Australasian teams and fans" with a citation.
So what to do? Well I would suggest perhaps World Cup, Superleague and NRL. This will result in about 2.25 stories per year which isn't too bad. I don't think there's ever an easy answer to these sort of questions (e.g. with the AFL and Gaelic football on the list, should we put up the International Rules Series? Yes these aren't the same sports but I think it's an interesting issue with a few similarities). Maybe consider asking input from Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league? Nil Einne (talk) 11:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Replacing the rugby league WC and the Tri/Four series with the NRL and the Superleague seems like a good compromise. –Howard the Duck 12:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Well I'm happy for the Four-nations to be replaced by NRL/Superleague, if you are happy that they are more notable. --Daviessimo (talk) 15:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Given that no-one has opposed I'll go ahead add change them around --Daviessimo (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I think this deserves to go up because this is one of - if not the - most watched sports event in Australasia and is the climax of the biggest domestic competition in either code of rugby. The article is here.--Thatsgold (talk) 08:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

The Melbourne Storm defeat the Parramatta Eels 23 to 16 to win the 2009 NRL Grand Final.[1]--Thatsgold (talk) 08:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Support if it's one of the most watched sports event in Australasia—particularly since the AFL Grand Final went by with no interest in updating... however, as Howard's initial argument seems to be based on both being added I'm somewhat confused since one was not... --candlewicke 09:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Just to point out there is no prose update on the match itself, which is the normal prerequisite for an event such as this to go up. Once an update has been made this can go up because it is a recurring item now --Daviessimo (talk) 18:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
How about now?--Thatsgold (talk) 23:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
One mildly related note: The AFL Grand Final is on ITN/R but hasn't been posted this year because the article didn't meet standards and there was a surprising lack of support for it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:16, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Before this is considered to go up, 2009_NRL_Grand_Final#Match_Summary should have more refs. SpencerT♦Nominate! 02:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
What's going on with this now?--Thatsgold (talk) 20:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
The usual... has fallen down the page and nobody has noticed it. You have to inform someone until you get what you want. I presume the citations have been added? There's no point asking anyone if it isn't ready... --candlewicke 19:42, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Greek election

Article: Greek legislative election, 2009.  Cargoking  talk  09:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Support if necessary. It's an election, listed at WP:ITNR, can be added when the result is known and the article is sufficiently updated. --candlewicke 09:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Slightly different news item now: Greece's Socialists win snap poll. Waltham, The Duke of 21:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Article has been updated with results. Radagast, your link heads to a disambig page. It think it should be piped to George Papandreou (junior) - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Why isn't this up yet? Yohan euan o4 (talk) 18:12, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Lack of admins. Everyone is offline or busy.  Cargoking  talk  18:13, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
The "Post-election events" section needs citations. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Citations added, please reconsider Moumouza (talk) 23:13, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


October 3

ITN candidates for October 3

Thekkady boat tragedy

Comment I don't really know about ITN, but this is happening right now, and the user uploading his own pics is on the scene, I'm helping them with the article. They are still searching for survivorsbodies etc; all over google news.  Chzz  ►  18:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, I think this was nominated already but was ignored but support anyway when it's ready. --candlewicke 19:45, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Comment not quite sure what is needed; I've just changed the above to be regarding the latest bodies recovered, which was just a few hours ago. Is that OK?  Chzz  ►  20:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
It is long enough but it doesn't seem to have any inline citations. --candlewicke 21:04, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I think I nommed this back on 30 Sept but couldn't find an article. Anyway, support this once inline citations added. It is amazing that we have those pics of the incident - Dumelow (talk) 00:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes; the user come onto the IRC help channel yesterday, asking for help uploading them - that's how I got involved in this. I have now re-cropped and adjusted the colour/brightness etc on the zoomed image, so hopefully it is clearer. There is another good pic of the rescue efforts, but it's down at the bottom - some work on the alignments would be good.  Chzz  ►  19:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Can you add more citations? Time is running out... --candlewicke 04:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
As stated originally, I am not terribly familiar with ITN; I posted this as soon as the user uploaded their pics, and worked to improve the article - I also asked if anything further was required. Certainly, I will now try to add citations - what sort? I mean, does it need inline-cites, or are you more concerned about it being up-to-date with any new coverage? Also, re. "time is running out" - how are such deadlines defined in these cases?  Chzz  ►  16:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I've added quite a lot of sources; please re-assess. I will continue to improve it further.  Chzz  ►  16:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make this more current, then the new story is about 2 crew members being arrested so...

[http://www.ptinews.com/news/314181_Boat-capsize--steerman--crew-member-arrested%7CThe steerman and 1 crew member have been arrested, following the tourist passenger boat disaster sank in Thekkady, Kerala, India, in which 44 people died.

(feel free to play with the grammar; I will add this fact about the arrests to the article right now)  Chzz  ►  17:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Death of Marek Edelman

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Marek Edelman, the last surviving leader of the Warsaw Uprising, dies in Poland aged 90. --candlewicke 08:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Irish "Yes" to Lisbon Treaty

BBC News. Please add! --bender235 (talk) 14:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Strong support when confirmed I say confirmed not because I'm being picky. I'm a strong supporter of the Treaty, and can't wait for notice of a Yes verdict to be put up on the front page. However, the result needs to be officially confirmed. HonouraryMix (talk) 14:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
The article to be updated is Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland Bill, 2009, and it currently needs some prose update. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:54, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Updated; Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


October 2

ITN candidates for October 2

2009 northeastern Sicily floods and mudslides

At least 18 people have been killed and 40 injured after rainstorms in Sicily washed away roads and destroyed homes around Messina. A further 20 people are missing, with rescue workers digging through the mud to find survivors. --candlewicke 21:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I've started the article. --candlewicke 21:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Floods and mudslides in Messina and across northeastern Sicily kill at least 20 people and injure at least 40 others. --candlewicke 00:47, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:11, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
50 dead now. Worst disaster of the decade. May I ask what is keeping this one from being posted for so long? --candlewicke 16:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Please update the death toll in the article and I will post it. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Floods and mudslides in Messina and across northeastern Sicily kill at least 21 people and injure at least 95 others in the country's worst landslide disaster since 1998. --candlewicke 18:03, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:27, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

2016 Summer Olympics

  • Election in Copenhagen of the Host City of the 2016 Summer Olympics : Rio or Madrid. Around 5:00 pm UTC.
Support - I think that for the largest sporting event in the world we can list the announcement of the host city. Article to be updated would be Bids for the 2016 Summer Olympics
Support, too. --bender235 (talk) 21:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, but I'd prefer to be consistent with the wording on ITN when Sochi was chosen as host of the 2014 Winter Olympics,[48] and also wait until there is an actual official announcement of the winning city. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Example: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, is chosen by the International Olympic Committee as the host city for the 2016 Summer Olympics. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:12, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Support - per Zzyzx11. Shinerunner (talk) 10:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
I believe the FIFA World Cup is the world's largest sporting event. Anyway, obvious support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Is it? That is something new to me. :-D It might be more popular than the Olympics, but largest...? By the number of audience, you mean? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
No the Olympics are the largest event, by far. Hektor (talk) 16:05, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Note that the ITN blurb should probably link to the city's bid (ie Rio de Janeiro bid for the 2016 Summer Olympics), though I can't think of a wording that would include city, country and bid at the moment. -M.Nelson (talk) 16:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Rio de Janeiro has been chosen to host the 2016 Summer Olympic Games. Physchim62 (talk) 16:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. According to FIFA World Cup it is the most widely viewed sporting event. The Olympics are almost certainly the world's largest sporting event in number of competitors. yorkshiresky (talk) 16:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
As I was just about to chime in, it is by far the most widely viewed event, though there are other measures of size obviously. I believe, though couldn't find out on a cursory search of the internet, that the European Football championship is also a more widely viewed event than the Olympics.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Rio has been chosen, the article has been updated.—NMajdantalk 17:02, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The Bids for the 2016 Summer Olympics article has not been updated yet, and the 2016 Summer Olympics currently needs more prose. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The Rio de Janeiro bid for the 2016 Summer Olympics article seems to be properly updated. Posting soon... --BorgQueen (talk) 17:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. Felipe Menegaz 17:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Second Irish referendum

This nomination concerns the Treaty of Lisbon. The article is probably at Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland Bill, 2009. This is a national referendum which might have international consequences. I'm nominating it today because a useful link popped up in the news. Other leaders are refusing to sign the treaty due to its rejection by Irish voters. Václav Klaus, the President of the Czech Republic, said today: "The Lisbon Treaty is dead for this moment. It is dead because it was rejected in a referendum in one member state. Therefore, a decision on ratification of this treaty is not on the agenda at this point". This followed his government's approval of the treaty also today. Mr Klaus is known for having taken his government to court last year after a "controversial" and "now notorious" state visit to Ireland. After Ireland rejected the treaty in its initial referendum (yeah, that's right, Ireland is having another one because its citizens did not vote the way the government and the EU wanted them to the last time), opinion polls in the Czech Republic reversed in opposition of the treaty. There is also supposedly a court challenge in Germany. I'm not fully certain of the relevance of all this right now or how an ITN might be constructed but it might affect 27 countries, not just Irish voters and a rogue Czech President. So I'll just leave it here. --candlewicke 18:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

More on this. --candlewicke 18:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I say wait until something happens and then work off of that. SpencerT♦Nominate! 17:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, I just thought this was a good place to put some background together. --candlewicke 17:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
We usually add national referendums, right? –Howard the Duck 14:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
What sort of national referendums? I'm fine with adding this but while NZ is holding a citizen initiated referendum in July-August New Zealand corporal punishment referendum, 2009 I would never have thought of proposing considering it's non binding, leaders of both major parties have said it's a pointless/silly question, most Kiwis think it's a waste of money [49] and it's not actually likely to result in anything other then a lot of noise. This is the case with most NZ citizen initiated referendums. Italy appears to have a problem whereby (Referendums in Italy) parties just ignore the results of legislative referendums and reintroduce laws like those struck down. Any other non-binding referendum would also be of questionable value for ITN IMHO along with binding referendums which don't have an extremely substanial change (e.g. a referendum changing party financing). In other words, IMHO national referendums should be decided on a case by case basis rather then defacto consensus like with national elections Nil Einne (talk) 21:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

October 2nd, 2009, we will vote again:

or

or whatever happens.  Cargoking  talk  11:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The Republic of Ireland will hold a second referendum on the European Union's Treaty of Lisbon on 2 October. (BBC News) Added by Bender235


From BBC, "the Eurosceptic presidents of the Czech Republic and Poland have not yet signed it, saying they will wait for the decision of Irish voters." --candlewicke 15:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

A useful Q&A from The Daily Telegraph. --candlewicke 18:00, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
The Daily Telegraph provides helpful media links to Ireland's referendum campaign for all its readers. --candlewicke 10:29, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Voices not normally heard in political debate are speaking out about Lisbon - business leaders, sports stars, celebrities. That shows how much is at stake in this referendum. --candlewicke 02:48, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Like there is no reason for this NOT to go up... –Howard the Duck 07:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Just in case. I'm gathering useful bits in case someone opposes. ;)
A "No" vote would plunge the EU into a crisis - probably one of the most serious in its history. It would damage the EU's credibility internationally and among European voters. — BBC Q&A. Sounds scary... :P --candlewicke 11:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
This will go up. No reason for anymore links. We get it, it's important. –Howard the Duck 13:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Just another link ;) to say that the result isn't expected until "early Saturday afternoon", according the BBC. Maybe an Irish Wikipedian (or a Wikipedian in Ireland) could confirm this, since it's obvious that the result will go up once it's known: it would be helpful to be able to plan ahead. Physchim62 (talk) 14:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
RTE confirms that vote counting won't start until Saturday morning 0800 (UTC). There should be estimates of turnout once the polls close at 2100 (UTC) this evening. Physchim62 (talk) 14:33, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Poll closed. Live results also available here from tomorrow morning. Lots of international interest with Chinese, German, Russian, Japanese, BBC, Al Jazeera news crews among those in attendance. --candlewicke 22:45, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
I am holding my breath... --BorgQueen (talk) 22:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

<--. Okay, if it passes (and I think it might), the wording "Ireland ratifies the Treaty of Lisbon referendum." just seems too short. Is there a (slightly) longer way to phrase it? Oh, and support by the way if there's any issue about need for support. SpencerT♦Nominate! 01:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Well it wouldn't ratify the referendum... The Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland is passed, enabling Ireland to ratify the Treaty of Lisbon at the second attempt (Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union pictured). That seems both official and long enough in the event of it being passed. I included a picture too but it might not be the best one. --candlewicke 01:48, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the blurb but please don't even suggest we use this image. :-) --BorgQueen (talk) 01:53, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
No, you're right. But it might encourage someone else to come up with a better image. ;) --candlewicke 02:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


October 1

ITN candidates for October 1

Apes descended from humans?

TheStar BBC Time and pretty much any news site... journal science published today finding that shows humans are older than apes and that apes evolved from humans. Pretty big considering what has been known so far (humans coming from chimps and all...). what do u guys think -- Ashish-g55 16:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Support inclusion, but maybe avoid a too sensationalist hook. I'll leave it to someone with a slightly better understanding of palaeontology (or is it paleoanthropology?) than me to come up with something. The corresponding article, by the way, is Ardipithecus, and here's another source: National Geographic. Lampman (talk) 17:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
and just to note apes may not have descended from humans... thats just a possibility. the news part is finding a human that is 4.4 million years old. -- Ashish-g55 18:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Support the finding of ancient human. --candlewicke 19:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. --bender235 (talk) 21:09, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Support but the Ardipithecus article needs more citations. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The finding is not a human but a human ancestor, as the blurb currently says. Anyway, support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Does it still needs more citations? seems decently updated and cited. -- Ashish-g55 18:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
It is best if those "[citation needed]" tags are dealt with before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Agree with BorgQueen, but I can't be bothered with an argument with the creationists. Big news, but the Church doesn't want you to hear it. Physchim62 (talk) 18:29, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe support. I want to see a proposed item first, I can't think of any myself. After all that's part of what ITNC is about. The original proposal was definitely overly sensational and doesn't seem too accurate either. It's well accepted that humans are apes and as Johnsemlak says these thing we found may be some sort of proto-human but it's highly questionable if it's accurate to call them human. Also from what I can tell we're not referring to all apes. Ardipithecus ramidus may be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees but I don't think anyone has suggested it is an ancestor of all apes, AFAIK current evidence suggests the last common ancestor of the orangutan and other living great apes was ~25 MYA so this thing almost definitely is from after the orangutan-great apes diverged. So claiming that apes evolved from humans is either a pointless statement or otherwise doesn't make much sense. It is important we get this right, ITN has been criticised before for being overtly sensationalistic particularly with science stories, and it's not that hard since the popular media often does the same thing. Nil Einne (talk) 20:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
umm the star's headline was similar so i stated it as a joke which i clarified that the news item is 4.4 million year old human. Its still the top journal on science mag. seems to be a big news in science community. so its not really about whether it was ancestor or whether we are apes... its just about stating the fact that a 4.4 million year old hominid was discovered. i will try and clear up some of the citation things when i get some time btw. -- Ashish-g55 21:10, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
if not too late this can still go up. article looks a lot better now 99.238.91.199 (talk) 12:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Supreme Court of the United Kingdom

Strong Support. This is ITN material.  Cargoking  talk  18:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
It will take a monumental oppose for this not to go up. –Howard the Duck 09:10, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
And is that one from you or just an observation? :-) --candlewicke 02:35, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Oh my, this is a truly historic moment. [50] Any volunteers? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I think you could say this is at least as important to the UK has having a new head of state, which would be reported as a matter of course. That said this is effectively the 'swearing in' moment, not the moment when the matter was decided. --Johnsemlak (talk) 03:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Stong support Big news for U.K. Perfect ITN material. Agree with BorgQueen it's histroical. I will look if I can help.--yousaf465' 04:59, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Support, the article seems to have been updated sufficiently as well - Dumelow (talk) 08:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
My God yes, this is big news. This has been talked about for years in the UK. While the Judicial Committee of the House of Lords effectively served as a Supreme Court in the same way as would occur in any other democracy, it was still a strange setup. Strongest support.
  • Meh...too UK-centric. Kidding. Kidding. Strong Support. I honestly don't see any good oppose reasons coming with this one. --Smashvilletalk 15:18, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
On the day this new institution comes into being, this is not even mentioned on the BBC's UK news portal page: in what way is in "in the news", rather than merely being new? Kevin McE (talk) 17:08, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
It is in the news. [51] [52] --BorgQueen (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
(ec) Because, as has been said a thousand times before, ITN is not a news ticker. Being the top story on BBC or CNN does automatically merit inclusion and conversely, being buried in some obscure section does not prevent inclusion. ITN is used to promote significant events that are in the news and which have encyclopaedic value. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
It's still a reasonable complaint though. I think it's very significant but I'm surprised how little coverage it got on the BBC. One of the few objective ways we can measure significance is to look at the quantity of news coverage. I guess this was bigger news during the Constitutional Reform Act 2005.--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:33, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

60th anniversary of the People's Republic of China

The biggest event to happen in the People's Republic of China since the 2008 Olympics. Security is tight, and $44 million has been spent on a military parade in Tiananmen Square, Beijing. Parade to showcase J-10 fighter aircraft, ZTZ99 main battle tank, five new types of nuclear and conventional missiles, Kongjing-200 and Kongjing-2000 early-warning aircraft, new models of the Type-95 rifle and Type-03 machine gun. Sources in article. -- 李博杰  | Talk contribs email 01:07, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think this should go on the main page, as it doesn't change anything. China's policies haven't changed and neither has the world power balance. Many communist countries do military parades all the time, as well as Russia, India, Iran, Libya etc YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I tend to agree with YellowMonkey. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • 60th Anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China. A massive parade is expected. This is a major international event that will get much press coverage. [53] Poliphile (talk) 20:54, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
really sounds like OTD item though. -- Ashish-g55 21:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
IMHO, it would be a OTD item if it were any other year but this is the 60th anniversary. The last time a major parade happened was 1999. This story inevitably will get major attention in the world. Poliphile (talk) 21:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Well how do you know it will "get major attention"?  Cargoking  talk  15:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Given the importance of China and significance of the event to world affairs. There has already been serious coverage on the rehearsals (far less important than the actual event) from international presses. Poliphile (talk) 18:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
60 isn't very big or ITN worthy. There is absolutely no reason why this should go up. Strong oppose.  Cargoking  talk  09:27, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
On This Day has it covered (twice, and one has the photo spot). No need here. Radagast (talk) 02:29, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Normally in any other year, OTD would say "National Day in the People's Republic of China",[54] but since a special article was created for the 60th Anniversary, that is linked instead. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The parade has already started. -- 李博杰  | Talk contribs email 02:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
So? --BorgQueen (talk) 02:45, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Countries have military parades all the time. Rawr (talk) 04:01, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. It might be big but still not worthy for ITN. I have seen it live Chinese are living up to the exceptions.--yousaf465' 05:02, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. An anniversary is not news. --Smashvilletalk 15:21, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Alberto Fujimori

This ex-president of Peru, who is already in prison for human rights abuses, has been jailed for six years for corruption. We have had some ITNs in the past along similar lines. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 20:08, 1 October 2009 (UTC) (signing now, forgot earlier)

Support. --candlewicke 18:23, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I have updated the article with the two latest convictions. How about: "Former President of Peru, Alberto Fujimori, is sentenced to six years imprisonment for bribery and phone tapping" - Dumelow (talk) 10:47, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Roman remains

Archeologists discover an amphitheatre and a 90 m long canal at a site 20 miles outside of Rome. It has been hailed as "one of the most important archaeological sites in the world", to be rated amongst "such wonders as "Stonehenge and Angkor Wat in Cambodia". Article is probably at Portus. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 09:21, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

We has a similar proposal a couple of weeks ago about the finding of a very ancient (3000+ year old) wall in Jerusalem. It didn't get posted, though at the time I couldn't find an article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:17, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Boat capsize

A boat capsize in India kills 37 people. There doesn't seem to be an article yet. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 09:21, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Netherlands Antilles

Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles - Nominate the agreement to formally dissolve the Netherland Antilles on October 10, 2010. Scanlan (talk) 01:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I think the ITN is when it actually happens. There is more than one year for something to go wrong. --candlewicke 19:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
  1. ^ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10601254