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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/May 2010

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Archived discussion for May 2010 from Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates.

May 31

ITN candidates for May 31

Sayeed al-Masri

Number 3 al-Qaeda leader reported dead. Marcus Aurelius (talk) 02:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Support. Sayeed al-Masri is reported to have been killed in a Drone strike in Pakistan ( and confirmed by Al-Qaeda).(WP), (CNN), (NYT)--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per my "cockroach" standard- no matter how many of these types get killed, there's always another one ready to take up the job. I honestly couldn't see myself supporting anyone but the confirmed death of Osama himself. Courcelles (talk) 20:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Courcelles. Al-qaeda leaders get killed all the time, and usually no-one has even heard they'd taken over until their assassination is announced. Bin Laden would be and al-Zakalwi was big enough, but al-Masri isn't. Al-Zawahiri would be debatable. Modest Genius talk 23:40, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Lahore attack update

The gunman in custody has been attacked. Geotv. We can update the previous article.--yousaf465' 02:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Adding here bcz June 1 is not being created.--yousaf465' 02:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
this belongs to the article talk page not here--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Agreed, and there's no chance of tweaking the existing blurb since it dropped off the Main Page with the shuffling around at midnight UTC. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok Shifting to talk-page.--yousaf465' 03:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

May 2010 Quebec wildfires

I don't know the last time we had a Canadian story (or more appropriately a Canadien one). There's int'l interest here because the smoke from the fires is reaching as far as Boston and beyond. Article needs work though. ~DC Talk To Me 19:04, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Philippine congressional elections

Most of the party-list seats have been filled up so the remaining seats in the House of Representatives (around 25) won't change the outcome. The results of the Senate election was earlier known but I wanted to join into one blurb:

For those who are looking, the updates are in the "Aftermath" section in each article. The result of the presidential election may come later this week or next week. –Howard the Duck 17:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

The senate elections were announced way back on 18 May; when were the representatives announced? Barring date issues, support per ITNR. Bodies of the articles have been updated but their leads could do with a once-over. Modest Genius talk 19:01, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I was waiting for the at least 90% of the House of Representatives' seats to have declared winners. While most of the winning district representatives (80% of the seats) were announced the week proceeding the election, more than half of the party-list seats (20% of the seats) were declared today so I waited for the party-lists to have declared winners. Plus, I think the people here won't like an article about elections in the Philippines going up thrice. –Howard the Duck 19:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Heyyyyyy anyone? For reference this should go below the Gaza flotilla item since this occurred first. –Howard the Duck
Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy it's been over a day already what else has to be added so I can ask the Wiki fairies to do their magic. –Howard the Duck 14:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
It looks good to me, this should go up now. Modest Genius talk 15:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Horst Köhler resigns

Should be on ITNR I think as German President. Will try to update. --candlewicke 12:42, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support. First German president to resign (post-war). --bender235 (talk) 12:45, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
  • We'd really need more on why he resigned! As it is, there's just the one sentence in the article - but if we can get this updated, it certainly deserves mentioning. Shimgray | talk | 12:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
It had just happened when I discovered it. Now I have updated it. German President Horst Köhler (pictured) resigns with immediate effect. --candlewicke 13:01, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Posting. Maybe we should include the reason? --Tone 13:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the reason is more important than the "with immediate effect". How about "etcetc. resigns following criticism of his comments about overseas military operations." Physchim62 (talk) 13:37, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment: this is certainly not an ITNR event. In the case of an elected head of state (ie that applies to germany), ITNR lists the results of elections for the head of state, not the resignation of an existing one. As it happens, I support posting this, but on it's own merits. However I think the blurb really has to have some information about why he resigned, reading it at the moment my immediate reaction is 'so?' Modest Genius talk 14:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
That's not my understanding of ITN/R. I thought we were clear that all changes of head of state should go up. I agree that we should find a wording that summarizes the reasons for his resignation (the reasons are not in dispute, but it's a rather complicated affair). Physchim62 (talk) 14:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
WP:ITNR lists 'The results of the elections for head of state'. Nothing about resignations or other changes. That may well be worth modifying (in which case WT:ITNR would be the place to discuss it), but as ITNR currently stands this item is not included. Modest Genius talk 16:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
As far I as I know, WP:ITNR exists to automatically include, rather than automatically exclude, potential ITN blurbs. –Howard the Duck 17:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Indeed so. You'll note I even !voted support. My point is you can't say 'support per ITNR' when it's not actually on ITNR. Modest Genius talk 19:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Noted. Perhaps "any change in head of state permanently" should be an ITNR, while temporary changes should be left off. –Howard the Duck 19:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Both points are included in "the succession of a Head of State", which is exactly what has happened in Germany. Physchim62 (talk) 19:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
No-one has succeeded yet; his replacement hasn't been decided. Modest Genius talk 20:57, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

(←) Shouldn't the fact that Jens Böhrnsen, as President of the Bundesrat assumes the powers of the Presidency be mentioned? ~DC Talk To Me 04:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Christian Wulff is designated by the government to succeed Köhler (and is certain to win, unless there's a two-digit number of "faithless electors" from the government parties in the Bundesversammlung). So this fact might be added to the blurb. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 20:18, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Israeli child-abuse claims

I think a major study. --yousaf465' 08:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

So would you perhaps like to provide us with some information? Any information at all? Is there an article? Has it been updated? What's the significance of the story? Modest Genius talk 14:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I think this is the story he is referring to. claims of abuse based on some affidavits from people who hate Israel[1]--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:05, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think we may update this article Defence for Children International. --yousaf465' 16:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Reports of Israeli forces killing flotilla passengers

  • Eh - 10 at the moment. I believe there are notable people, including Nobel Laureates and politicians on board, but even without them... :-( --candlewicke 04:57, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Let's wait on better more sources, and for the story to settle a bit. Wikinews is over there. Prodego talk 05:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Obvious Support but wait. There were some notable Pakistani passengers also. I think this might bring it in direct conflict with Pakistan after 1973's war. Then the ratio was 2:0, what will be this time. At least for the story to to develop. It's gone be tricky. --yousaf465' 05:24, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
What are you talking about? This cryptic trolling by yousaf465 is getting stranger by the day. Nutmegger (talk) 06:50, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. Modest Genius talk 14:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment would recommend cutting Yousaf some slack. The excessive Power cuts and the never ending violence in Pakistan there has got to be stressful. It is admirable that he still finds the dedication to log on to WP.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment Somehow I don't think Yousaf is logging in from Pakistan, no matter what it says on his or her profile. Nutmegger (talk) 16:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
And that isn't cryptic trolling? --candlewicke 04:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Support. but help me in expanding the article--DAI (Δ) 05:35, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support Mjroots (talk) 08:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Um, what article is being updated here? -- tariqabjotu 08:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Gaza flotilla clash. JACOPLANE • 2010-05-31 08:20
Support as above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Looks good to go. --Mkativerata (talk) 09:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Belated support. Modest Genius talk 14:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

May 30

ITN candidates for May 30

2010 Indianapolis 500

The 2010 Indianapolis 500 should be complete within the next half-hour or so. This race is on ITN/R Bradjamesbrown (talk) 19:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

We need to fix ITN/R then! Also, this article is as ugly as sin. Support if it is properly updated. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:56, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I have done a prose update as it's been an hour since the race finished and none of the indy fans have arrived at the article. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Do you have the balls to put something in the blurb about it being an all-British podium? :) --Mkativerata (talk) 22:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
If you can work it into a decent blurb. You get used to the cries of admin abuse! ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:10, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll go against expansion in this direction. The winner is enough. --Tone 22:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The update looks a bit lacking to me - there's a good bit of prose, but no results table. And an in-principle support per ITNR. Modest Genius talk 22:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose until the article is ready. It is tagged. --candlewicke 04:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
The article should be ready, dunno why the tag is still there. –Howard the Duck 04:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed it. I've seen shorter FAs. ~DC Talk To Me 04:37, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

There should probably be some mention that it's his 2nd victory. (talk) 11:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How about " Scottish race car driver Dario Franchitti wins his second Indianapolis 500"? –Howard the Duck 11:44, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
'racing driver' is probably a better phrasing that 'race car driver', which sounds odd to BrE ears. Modest Genius talk 14:23, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
It ("racing driver") sounds odd to me too... how was the Monaco GP worded? We can copy that. –Howard the Duck 17:21, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think we avoided the issue by saying 'mark webber wins in a red bull car' Modest Genius talk 19:05, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Or probably use "Scotsman." I was going to say follow what you guys did earlier but I doubt if anyone knows IndyCar cars. –Howard the Duck 19:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Cure for Ebola

Cure has been found for Ebola in monkeys and a human version should be available within 5 years.[2] --Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 17:32, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. Thue | talk 17:50, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - After reading the book, Hot Zone, I'm extremely happy that they've gotten this close to getting the cure for humans. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 18:06, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support The reliable sources indicate this is very significant. I am adding updates at Ebola#Treatment.--Mkativerata (talk) 19:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment. The original peer-reviewed paper appeared in The Lancet here. Physchim62 (talk) 21:47, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support This is a major breakthrough. Malke2010 00:43, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
A potential cure? I thought this had to be fact? --candlewicke 22:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
It says it works on monkeys. So let's modify the blurb, the current one is not following the ITN conventions. --Tone 22:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Neutral. Remission in four monkeys and we post it on ITN? That seems a bit like jumping the gun to me. I don't have any reason to doubt the efficacy, and it's certainly an interesting item, so I won't oppose but I'm not convinced either. Modest Genius talk 22:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Pigeon held for spying

Yes you are reading it correctly a pigeon is being for spying.Pigeon held for spying. This reminds me of captain Blackadder's shooting of a pigeon, and the subsequent court martial, which also represents the world after 9/11. As candlewicke said earlier many of you might not have been born when this series was aired. For those of you who haven't seen it it located here blackadder - shooting of the carrier pigeon. So lets have some fun.--yousaf465' 08:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Wikipedia is not an outlet for sensationalist news stories.--WaltCip (talk) 15:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. a) this is frivolous and b) there's no article update provided. Modest Genius talk 16:10, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support for April 1st next year, and that's it. :-) --PFHLai (talk) 18:36, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
This is the response I needed, not the above ones. Take every story on it's merit. ;) For more serious response see below. --yousaf465' 02:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

perfect pitch after 1880

rest you know.--yousaf465' 04:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Huh? No, I don't know what you're talking about. -- tariqabjotu 07:13, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe he is talking about the perfect game that Roy Halladay threw yesterday. --PlasmaTwa2 08:36, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I saw it live in the morning on ESPN. It was a night game I think. --yousaf465' 08:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Non-championship sporting records generally don't go up and another perfect game was thrown about less than a month ago. SpencerT♦Nominate! 16:52, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose There seems to be a surplus of trolling this week from user yousaf465, who supports a pigeon story and the perfect game but not the Lahore attack, which killed 100+, from being placed on ITN. Nutmegger (talk) 17:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Let's try and focus on the nomination rather than the nominator please. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:05, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict)Oppose Criterion insufficiency. Nomination history by yousaf465 seems somewhat worrying.--WaltCip (talk) 18:07, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Assume good faith. Mark Buehrle's perfect game was posted last year, I think, and Dallas Braden's generated a lot of discussion, so a nomination is not out of line. (These things usually only happen every five years or so -- don't know why there's been 3 in a year and two in a month.) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
As Mwalcoff a similar record was nominated/posted previously , that is the reason for posting this one. For Lahore attack I had some reservation which I expressed, I think that was not without reason. Previously I not only nominated such attack but also supported posting. I think this will clear any confusion. :) --yousaf465' 02:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
What is wrong with making a nomination? There aren't usually ever enough. And there will be even less if the nominators are discouraged. --candlewicke 03:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree entirely, Candlewicke; further, there have only been, what, 20 of these in 120 years? Two in a month is a statistical anomaly we may never see again, so it was worth the nomination. I think a) a better nomination statement, at least linking to the pitcher's article and including the term "perfect game" would have started this one on a better foot, and b) the uniqueness of the timing is also its downfall as a claim to importance. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 15:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I think the rare event here is not a perfect game, but rather the second perfect game in one month. That in itself could be ITN-worthy. -- tariqabjotu 15:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Tropical Storm Agatha

Six people have already been killed by the storm, which was declared early today, and forecasts anticipate upwards of 20 inches (500 cm) of rain falling in El Salvador, Guatemala (including around the Pacaya volcano) and Nicaragua. The government in Guatemala is fearing that this will turn into a huge disaster, "the severity of the storm could overwhelm the State's response capabilities" - [3] as well as dozens of other Spanish and English news sources. The storm has now also made landfall near the Mexico-Guatemala border. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Update- 12 people are confirmed to have been killed in Guatemala and 11 others are missing. [4] Cyclonebiskit (talk) 02:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Support works for me

The article is well-developed, please suggest a blurb. --Tone 22:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Suggested blurb: Tropical Storm Agatha triggers widespread flooding across Central America, killing at least 83 people.
Latest info states 83 fatalities from the storm now [5] Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment death toll now up to 16. Leave Message, Yellow Evan home 12:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Another update- 23 people confirmed killed and 24 more are missing, countries affected are Guatemala, Mexico, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Honduras. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. In addition, the storm could make it into the Atlantic basin. ~AH1(TCU) 21:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Posted. This has been nominated for a fair while and there has been no rush to oppose it. There's a decent article on the subject and it seems to be affecting a lot of people in a lot of places, which is why I put it up despite the relatively week consensus. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:36, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Update. Now at least 102 killed, 41 missing. ~AH1(TCU) 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll update the template. You'll probably get a faster response at WP:ERRORS if further updates are needed. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:52, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Colombian presidential election, 2010

Elections for President of Colombia - Dumelow (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't look likely that any candidate will win the required 50% of the vote. In that case the run of will be on 20 June - Dumelow (talk) 08:59, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
In this case let us wait. --Tone 22:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

May 29

ITN candidates for May 29

Czech legislative election, 2010

Results announced but it is not clear who will form government.[6] Article needs some work. I will try. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:19, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Support when updated. If it is not clear who'll form the government, we usually go with "X party wins plurality in the election." --Tone 21:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I've updated it to the most recent results in the "Results" section. If we go with a blurb of that kind I would suggest "The Social Democratic Party wins a plurality in a legislative election in the Czech Republic". But for context it might be worth including a bit about how they're unlikely to form government (eg their leader has resigned). --Mkativerata (talk) 22:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Looking at the results, we should work on the blurb a bit. Saying it will be hard for them to form the government is rather speculative though apparently obvious. Maybe better to mention that 5 parties entered the parliament with big parties suffering huge loss of votes? --Tone 22:36, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
"... but its leader resigns citing a poorer than expected result" is the best I can think of (for now). --Mkativerata (talk) 22:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable. Let's leave it for a couple of hours to allow some more ideas to appear and the article to grow. Then, posting. --Tone 22:44, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
support electoral results are always ITN. Can mention who won a plurality even if not a majority.Lihaas (talk) 10:12, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The article is much better now, posting. --Tone 10:14, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. --bender235 (talk) 14:42, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Eurovision Song Contest 2010

The 55th contest is taking place tonight (well, now), being broadcast to a television audience of 125 million across the world. Winner to be announced in around two hours time. (BBC)(AP) - JuneGloom07 Talk? 20:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

This is ITN/R, so presuming we get an update, support. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 20:11, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Naturally support - Romania will win. – SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 20:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Seems to be correct the exit polls, i'm disgusted. Germany will win? - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 21:36, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, the results will be there in around half an hour. --Tone 21:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Now the article needs to be updated. Some prose in the intro will suffice for posting, IMO. --Tone 22:13, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
This should be fixed in a couple of minutes. I'd suggest expanding the blurb to mention the singer and the song name. --Tone 22:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
We have a free image of the winner, if anyone wants to update the current picture. File:Lena Oslo3 cropped.jpg - JuneGloom07 Talk? 22:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, agree, I think we know what the coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago looks like by now! Physchim62 (talk) 22:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Already been done! Bradjamesbrown (talk) 22:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Ooh, someone was quick. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 22:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Maybe File:Lena Meyer-Landrut01.jpg would be a better picture. EnemyOfTheState|talk 03:43, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
One could add the fact that it's the first German victory since 1982. --bender235 (talk) 13:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Ah, that's statistics, we don't feature statistics unless they are really special (which I don't think is the case here).--Tone 13:13, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Huh? Why not? It's the first German win in 28 years, and second overall. Being German, I can tell you that is a notable stat. --bender235 (talk) 14:33, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Being a non-German, I can tell you that most certainly is NOT a notable stat. Modest Genius talk 14:34, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
For a well-supported candidacy, the prose update for this blurb, was... minimal. And that says a lot. –Howard the Duck 17:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The suite of articles (on the song, artist and competition) were all in pretty decent shape, partly because of the national selection a couple of months ago. Given that the basic info on the song, venue etc. had already been added, it's hard to think what more information there can be than 'so and so won, with x many points, and here's a scoreboard'. The one unexpected event (stage invasion) has a prose update, albeit currently uncited. Modest Genius talk 19:03, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah the articles are in better enough shape, but the "ITN rules" say that "the update must but a five sentence update (with at minimum three references, not counting duplicates) has generally been considered more than sufficient, while a one sentence update is considered extremely questionable." Now the update about the blurb per se on the article, not the side events such as the stage invasion, is only a single sentence. If only a single sentence can be added for everything that occurred in this event, I dunno why it's up there. –Howard the Duck 04:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Death of Dennis Hopper

- Nom - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 18:38, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. A famous actor but not notable enough for ITN treatment. And his death was expected. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:41, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
In general, ITN only features obituaries for heads of state, former heads of state and other extremely important people. As a rule of thumb, most "celebrities" won't get on and nor should they in most cases. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:05, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry but Dennis Hopper is not a simple celebrity, he is a key figure in the history of cinematography, as a director, actor and generally as an artist. The LEAD of the article is simply not good enough at the moment to establish his importance, but I would say his notability is very high. --Elekhh (talk) 22:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree that he was important enough within his field to meet that part of the guideline; Easy Rider alone warrants that. However, the guidelines also say that the death has to be "unexpected or tragic". I'm not sure what "or tragic" means, surely a death is always tragic for those closest to the diseased. But his death was certainly not unexpected; he was 74 and diagnosed with terminal cancer months ago. Lampman (talk) 23:31, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. I've thought about this and was expecting to oppose but now I've changed my mind. After reading about him I would agree with Elekhh as he doesn't sound like a "simple celebrity". He seems very highly regarded internationally as an artist/actor/director/photographer and so on (I don't know how many careers this man had but the focus is certainly more on these than his personal life).
    • He has obituaries by Xinhua, TIME and Al Jazeera.
    • France24 describes him as "an iconic big-screen emblem of US counterculture".
    • The Guardian describes some of the roles he had (they seem quite diverse) and calls him "one of the movie world's great outlaws".
    • CBC describes him as "the Hollywood elder statesman".
    • The Times calls him an "icon of counterculture cinema".
    • Rolling Stone says he "put his fingerprints on a series of iconic, era-defining pictures".

The age and "expected death" has not counted against others in the past if they are important enough. Many have been diseased and much older than 74. J.D Salinger is a good example of someone who was older (91) and of an artistic nature. Who are the other top people in Hopper's professions whose deaths would feature on ITN? --candlewicke 03:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Knock on wood, but how about Steven Spielberg, Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Jack Nicholson, Michael Caine & Paul Newman? IMO, Hopper doesn't cut it for ITN. Might've been more supportive if he had died in an accident while filming and his death killed a high profile project. --PFHLai (talk) 06:35, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
What you're saying just demonstrates the Wiki article is not good enough to presents Hopper's notability. According to my readings he has a much stronger place in the history of cinematography than all those you mentioned. Particularly as a director you cannot compare him to "only" actors. Finally, I don't understand why premature, accidental or violent death would add to his notability. --Elekhh (talk) 08:35, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, the first name on my list is obviously not an actor. The second one is both a director and actor, and much more notable than Hopper in either role. BTW, it's not just based on the wikiarticles, but also my decades of watching movies. IMO, Hopper is notable but not that notable. If you want a sports analogy, he would get a few votes to get to the Baseball Hall of Fame, but not enough to actually get voted in. Just my two cents. --PFHLai (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
BTW, "premature, accidental or violent death" would not add to his notability, but add to the newsworthiness of the death. A death of significance is more likely to get my support for ITN. --PFHLai (talk) 18:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per Elekhh. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:06, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, not really notable enough IMO. Modest Genius talk 14:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Not notable? He was an extraordinarily iconic cultural figure...and his manner of death is not important. ITN is not a news service. Train wrecks that effect hardly anyone go right in, but an iconic figure whose article is in decent shape is blocked. ITN is really losing the plot. RxS (talk) 18:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support A clear case where, whatever guidance suggests his death should not feature in ITN, that guidance should be ignored. Leaky Caldron 18:42, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Neutral Frankly, the fact that still now, well after the event in Wikipedia terms, his article still has nothing to say about the reaction to, or impact of, his death other than the pure mechanics of it, carries more weight as to whether it should go up on ITN or not, than any subjective ideas about whether he really was in the top echelon of his field or not, which, when compared even to Jack Nicholson who is just one year younger, I am not so sure of at all. I could be persuaded to support if/when anybody writes a half decent paragraph to this effect, but as it is now, it's an oppose. MickMacNee (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
He seems to be mentioned alongside Jack Nicholson in some of the sources so if Nicholson is notable enough then why not Hopper? And Paul Newman is already dead. --candlewicke 22:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Nicholson won three Academy Awards, three BAFTAs, has an AFI Lifetime Achievement award. Hopper had exactly zero. Not to mention that Nicholson is the most nominated actor in the history of the Academy Awards and has received nominations in 5 different decades. That is not remotely an apt comparison. --Smashvilletalk 21:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
That's not remotely an apt way to measure the achievemenets of an "icon of counterculture cinema". --Elekhh (talk) 21:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
It's also not an apt way to measure the volume of motor oil in a balloon. Neither one was what I was doing. --Smashvilletalk 21:51, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Pacaya eruption

- The Guatemala Volcano causes 2 deaths [8] - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 13:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Support except I would also mention the volcano erupting in Ecuador as well. [9] I suggest the headline: The Pacaya volcano in Guatamala and the Tungurahua volcano in Ecuador erupt, forcing thousand to evacuate.
They are entirely unconnected events, so even if both are featured, they should have separate blurbs. Thue | talk 15:12, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
If they both erupt now couldn't we just mention in addition that they are separate events? __meco (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
That would work too, I guess. Thue | talk 15:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Pacaya seems to have sufficient global coverage (it's near the capital), Tungurahua less so. Both articles need updating but, in principle, I support. Physchim62 (talk) 16:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Pacaya, for now. Update required. Combining the blurb with the Agatha storm would be a nice thing to do. --Tone 21:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Pacaya's update could use more sources, as well. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

May 28

ITN candidates for May 28

Cancellation of External debt of Haiti

Can't get any more international than this. Article needs an update, though. --PFHLai (talk) 07:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Support once updated. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:15, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually now that I've put a short update in the article, I'm not sure. The value of the debt waiver was only $36 million. That's not exactly much. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, tiny amount actually cancelled in this event. Modest Genius talk 14:05, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support(!) Come on! :-( The amount depends on your perspective. Haiti wouldn't exactly refuse $36 million at this time. It is amazing how 36 million of anything could be considered a "tiny" amount. --candlewicke 22:35, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
36 million US dollars isn't really that much. That's roughly the cost of one hospital, a supermarket's worth of stock, or for a worrying bit of perspective one major sporting star. In business or international aid terms, it's nothing. A larger debt than this was waived by Italy alone in the immediate aftermath of the quake, whilst. Approximately 100 times as much was pledged in post-earthquake aid according to our article, and that doesn't even include all the charitable appeals. Modest Genius talk 23:05, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Moratorium on logging in Indonesia announced

Support. It seems significant enough. It involves Norway. And it is $1 billion. And with 300 football fields of rainforests disappearing every hour in Indonesia this must be quite an important development. --candlewicke 19:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Thue (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, seems significant. However, the blurb needs to state this is a moratorium on new logging permits, not on all logging. Modest Genius talk 14:07, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, an important step forward for improving the world's climate. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:09, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment Why hasn't this been posted? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:09, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  • The update is three sentences long. For me, that's why I haven't posted it. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 17:41, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Ditto. give me a paragraph and a blurb and I'll put it up if Brad doesn't beat me to it, but 3 sentences isn't sufficient. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Suggested blurb: "Indonesia agrees to a moratorium on logging in the country in a letter of intent signed with Norway to curb palm oil production". ~AH1(TCU) 21:33, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Instead of the palm oil I would rather mention the $1 billion. This is a major precedent where a country pays a large sum to another country to avoid deforestation. --Elekhh (talk) 23:44, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Support with any blurb is about time to be posted. The article has been substantially improved over the last days. --Elekhh (talk) 05:50, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Gary Coleman Dead

He was quite famous so i will nominate him. i believe this will be big news atleast in north america and any country where Diff'rent Strokes ran one time or another. He did make "What'choo talkin' 'bout" famous. Also this was an unexpected death -- Ashish-g55 20:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Does not in my view meet the narrow criteria for deaths. I would call him a "very important figure" in his field. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:10, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Untimely death, but non-notable outside of his specific stardom.--WaltCip (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Sad, but not ITN material. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Suppose. As an actor who attained fame as a child, and with the media focus that has been on him throughout, I think this nomination deserves the ITN spot. __meco (talk) 09:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Haha..! I meant to write "support". __meco (talk) 15:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - don't think he was quite notable enough. Sad, though.  f o x  09:46, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong Oppose Does not reach the level of notability. Reporting deaths on ITN is rightfully reserved for heads of state/government and takes an extremely high level of notability if a person is not. Martin Luther King, Jr. would be notable enough. Gary Coleman most certainly is not. Save it for his blurb on Current Events. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 14:14, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, not sufficiently notable. Modest Genius talk 14:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Lahore attack

Almost as close in count (though still ongoing) to today's india attack. ITN-worthy. although it is still ongoing and stuff will change, more sources will come in due course. After than (say a few hours) it should be ripe for ITNLihaas (talk) 10:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Noting special, unfortunately another one long series of such events. Saw it live. --yousaf465' 13:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
That seems quite a high death toll for such an event. I might support if someone were to write a decent article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - approx. same death toll as Indian train derailment. -- (talk) 13:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Oppose? omg--DAI (Δ) 14:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually I'm concerned about the numbers of vandal edits it will generate, this attack is a really sensitive issue. It not just another attack which can posted without generating any controversy. First of all you can't call these place of worship as "Mosque" under the definition of Mosque. Pakistani media called it "Ahmadiyya's place of worship. If we do it here they will complain and that will be just a tip of ice berg. You may compare it with Judaism vs Christianity issue. So I think we can leave it for the wikinews only. Avoid any controversial content on Main Page. --yousaf465' 15:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Vandalism is not a good motive for not posting something. If it was, we'd have to scrap the TFA altogether. Besides, it would be like giving into them and it can always be semi protected if need be. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:37, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
It not only the Vandalism, nor semi protection only will do, it such a controversial topic I think we should avoid on Main page. Abortion debate might be close enough. --yousaf465' 16:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
User above insinuating implied fatwa. Nutmegger (talk) 20:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support May 2010 Lahore attacks, but only after sourcing improves (i.e, URLs or titles must be provided for citations; it is not enough simply to identify the news outlet and the date). -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support big attack. definitely ITN worthy--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. "Just" another terrorist attack, but a big one. Thue | talk 23:26, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Attabad lake is going to spill over today

So lets prepare the article. --yousaf465' 07:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

It was going to spill over the other day. Can we refrain from nominating events that haven't happened? Especially when there's no guarantee it's even going to happen. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:21, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
At 6 in the morning water was 2 feets from the spillway, currently the time is 8 in the evening, so if estimates are correct it is just 4 inches from the spillway. It has already displaced a very large population. --yousaf465' 15:02, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I checked the websites of CNN, the BBC, and Al Jazeera, and none had information on this event. Oppose ~DC Talk To Me 16:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Although there was no need for links for these sites, I think local media has enough material on this, but anyway I found these Pakistan villages 'at risk' of lake flooding Dated Tuesday, 11 May 2010, Pakistan Hunza lake 'to overflow within days' Monday, 17 May 2010 and for Aj New lake threatens havoc in Pakistan May 14th, 2010. Update Lake is now overflowing form the spillway.--yousaf465' 04:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • yousaf465 merely urges us to prepare for a likely ITN item. I did the same when the first ash clouds from Iceland started to approach Northern Norway, and perhaps some of you remember that we did mention that ash thing on ITN subsequent to that. On the other hand I also nominated Everybody Draw Mohammed Day preemptively which didn't make it. __meco (talk) 09:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Gyaneshwari Express derailment

  • support as per such big terror attacks being ITN-worthy.Lihaas (talk) 04:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Nominated under yesterday's date. --candlewicke 04:13, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
It happened today (1:30am)(Lihaas (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Maoists blasted rail tracks in West Bengal, derailing 13 coaches of a train. Later, a goods train hits 5 of the derailed coaches, killing scores of people and injuring hundreds. This was the second attack on civilians by the rebels this month. The last one was the Naugachia Incident [(Hindu) (Hindu)] ---- Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 06:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support as the BBC are now reporting at least 65 deaths. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • The article is wrong. the main article is : 2010 West Bengal Train Derailment. I recommend a merge of these articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatiraju.rishabh (talkcontribs) 07:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support major story, and would certainly be worthy had it occurred in the US or Europe. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 07:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    Can we please stop responding to biased arguments that no one makes? It certainly would be worthy no matter where it happened; no one has opposed this item, let alone opposed it because it didn't happen in the U.S. or Europe. -- tariqabjotu 09:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    Can we please post things that happen outside the US and Europe as promptly as those that do. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    We do our best. As soon as we have an item with sufficient support and an update in accordance with ITN criteria and an admin is available to post it, it goes up. I try to make myself as available as I can, but I can't be on 24 hours a day. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    There are several steps for an item getting onto ITN. First, the event has to happen (May 27, 20:30 UTC). Then, someone has to nominate it (didn't happen until May 28, 04:12 UTC). Then people have to support it (first support didn't seem to come until May 28, 06:15 UTC). The article has to be updated somewhere in there, and then someone has to post it (came at 09:15, May 28). So, essentially, I posted it three hours after the first corroborating support. On the other hand, no one, including yourself, nominated the event until eight hours after it happened. No one, including yourself, supported it until two hours after the event was nominated. And you didn't lend your support until three hours after the event was nominated and 10+ hours after the event happened. But, I got the item up within three hours of some decent support coming in. So... I'm not sure what you're complaining about. That is timely. And if the event had been nominated during the daylight hours of the UK or the US, I'm sure it would have gone up even faster. If there's a geographical problem here somewhere, it's that much of the Anglosphere was asleep when the item was nominated. But even that wasn't an issue, because it was posted within the acceptable amount of time that a non-ITNR event would be put on ITN. The geographical bias claims you're making here are demonstrably false. -- tariqabjotu 17:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    The crash actually happened sometime in the middle evening UK time, late afternoon in USA - the delay is more down to the time it took for news of it come in if anything, due to it happening in the middle of the night local time and in the middle of nowhere. MickMacNee (talk) 17:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    Yes, I recognized that. -- tariqabjotu 00:29, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support as above, as terrorism was involved it looks to be more ITN worthy than the recent derailment in China, which was posted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Just another vote, otherwise it's quite obvious. --yousaf465' 07:49, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. make it quicker--DAI (Δ) 08:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted -- tariqabjotu 09:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

May 27

ITN candidates for May 27

Boeing X-51 sets record

Boeing X-51 an unmanned scramjet sets hypersonic speed record by flying at mach 6 for 200 seconds.(AFP), (CSM)--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Are you sure its a speed record? NASA X-43 seems to have gone much faster. I believe the record here is 'longest', and that doesn't sound nearly as impressive, as this thing is meant to travel for an hour apparently, and the X-43 already went for 12 seconds. Given the testing program, there will be records like this all the time methinks. MickMacNee (talk) 03:07, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
the record was duration of the flight at hypersonic speed. I took them 10 years to go from 10 s flight to 200 s flight. methinks we wont have records like this all the time.--Wikireader41 (talk) 13:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Gyaneshwari Express train bombing

  • 15 dead, many more feared dead, in a suspected Naxalite train bombing, derailing an express sleeper which was then hit by a goods train. MickMacNee (talk) 01:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support ITN worthy - good quick work with the article although suggest using a few more sources. --Mkativerata (talk) 01:53, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. The Russian theatre bombing is ready if anyone wants to post it. --candlewicke 04:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Barack Obama adopts a new National Security Strategy

Article needs some work but it seems to be a topic of international significance. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose I don't see any evidence offered of international significance, and reading the article, it's a 'meh' from me. I'm sure that the international community isn't that surprised really, and it seems the media are far more interested in slamming him for not comforting in person the out of work fishermen down in old miss. MickMacNee (talk) 22:48, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Eh, "national security strategy"? Therefore opposing. --candlewicke 23:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
first line in article says a document prepared periodically, hence oppose. -- Ashish-g55 01:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Vanuatu earthquake

7.2 magnitude earthquake - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 18:06, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Opppose The article and news sources don't say anything of interest has even happened yet. MickMacNee (talk) 22:52, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Deepwater Horizon oil spill stopped?

According to the government official in charge, the oil has stopped spewing [10]. It may be diligent to wait for confirmation of some kind though (by BP or the Obama administration). ~DC Talk To Me 15:06, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. A close reading of the article indicates that this solution is not permanent and may fail over the next few days.--WaltCip (talk) 15:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose It is a big and ongoing news story, but I don't think it deserves reposting. We would be featuring the same article as last time. Physchim62 (talk) 15:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll support, but only when there's a permanent solution and everyone's certain it's fixed. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd support a sticky link for the oil spill until it disappears from the news. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Apple, Inc. overtakes Microsoft

Pretty big business story. __meco (talk) 14:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

BBC report: Apple passes Microsoft to be biggest tech company. TFOWRpropaganda 14:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
i would have supported if the numbers were based on revenue. these are based market capital hence share prices. which dont mean squat. volkswagen couple years ago became biggest company in the world because its shares jumped over 1k for few moments. a simple multiplication of share value doesnt show how big a company is... its always inflated for tech companies anyways oppose -- Ashish-g55 14:44, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Support a very big technology story, Apple and Microsoft have been rivals for years and for Apple to take the lead in market cap is impressive. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Do we put this up every time shifts in the market reverse this? They're close enough now- 3 billion USD before today, less now- that this could easily oscillate over the next month many times. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:36, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. No need to put this up every time (and nobody would suggest we do that). Just once per Eraserhead1. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. But if we publish it this one time, what would make it more significant than - say - Microsoft overtaking Apple about one year into the future?--WaltCip (talk) 05:02, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Because Apple has been the underdog for 20 years, and 10 years ago was only worth $5 billion or something. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:21, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Tom Cruise, Twilight saga win big in London

Tom Cruise poses for photographers with his Screen Icon award at the National Movie Awards at the Royal Festival Hall in London on Wednesday. The actor was presented with the award by Gwyneth Paltrow. Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 10:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Actors posing for photographers with awards is not newsworthy! Physchim62 (talk) 10:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Come on, people. --Smashvilletalk 14:56, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Don't even try to bring that here.--WaltCip (talk) 15:08, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure I understand this. Is it the photo? The award? The presenter of the award? The Royal Festival Hall? Or just because it is Tom Cruise? Either way I can see nothing to support at the moment. --candlewicke 23:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Lee Dewyze wins the American Idol title.

It was a very close contest but Lee Dewyze walked away with the American Idol title, beating fellow contestant Crystal Bowersox. Lee, a paint salesman, became the American Idol Finale 2010 Winner with 51% votes. (OneIndia)Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 10:06, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. We don't feature domestic contests. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm not supporting but I wanted to register my opposition to any kind of fixed rule like "We don't feature domestic contests." We have more readers in the US than in Europe, so if Eurovision gets on I don't think American Idol should be rejected out of hand. Nonetheless, Idol doesn't get the kind of attention it used to, so I won't support for now. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I really don't see any similarity between a TV show and an international contest of any kind which has occurred annually for more than 50 years. The article on Eurovision Song Contest even states "Eligibility to participate is not determined by geographic inclusion within the continent of Europe, despite the "Euro" in "Eurovision" — nor does it have any relation to the European Union. Several countries geographically outside the boundaries of Europe have competed: Israel, Cyprus, Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan in Western Asia, since 1973, 1981, 2006, 2007 and 2008 respectively; and Morocco, in North Africa, in the 1980 competition alone. In addition, Turkey and Russia, which are both transcontinental countries with most of their territory outside of Europe, have competed respectively since 1975 and 1994.[26]" The inclusion of Russia in particular ought to solve any dispute between the two concerning population size and land area. --candlewicke 23:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
And all those countries put together contribute far fewer readers of this page than do the US and Canada. That's not to say Eurovision shouldn't go up, only that we shouldn't dismiss its closest North American relation out of hand. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
I oppose as it's not significant enough, however it compares with Eurovision; but I'd point out that the statement that 'we don't post domestic contests' is simply wrong--e.g. we post the Super Bowl. Also, American Idol certainly has fans outside the U.S. so saying it's a mere domestic concern understates its significance.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah. International interest in this "domestic" contest is way too understated.Howard the Duck 07:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
I did the same search for "2010 Eurovision" in those same countries (replaced Ireland w/c participates in Eurovision with the U.S.) and I came up with this. –Howard the Duck 07:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Maybe that is because the 2010 Eurovision song contest hasn't happened yet, Howard. Then again, best not to let the truth get in the way of a good argument... --Daviessimo (talk) 18:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
i didn't know that the semifinal wasn't a part of the contest. –Howard the Duck 02:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Just a reality show with declining ratings. Depending on the ratings results, may not even have been the highest rated results show that night. --Smashvilletalk 18:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Russia Bomb Blast - 2010 Stavropol bomb blast -

6 killed and 16 critically wounded in a bomb blast in Stavropol, Russia.(Reuters), (BBC)--Wikireader41 (talk) 08:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Support when expanded. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Article is now sufficient imo, but if i were to post it, I'd like to see a few more supports. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Eh, how likely is it that this will be noticed? Two days have passed. --candlewicke 03:11, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It is definitely time to start demanding the existence of ITN valid content before nomination - never mind evidence of international significane, this 'article' is two sentences long and has not even been touched in over 12 hours. MickMacNee (talk) 23:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Maybe it has not been touched because it is not very visible? Hopefully it is more valid now, though it might not have been if it hadn't been nominated here. Support because it is an unusual incident, on a theatre in an area which is not used to such bombings. At least 7 people die and at least 40 others are injured after a bomb explodes before a performance in Stavropol. --candlewicke 00:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Another extinction

Another victim of Iraq war, Iraqi Airways will be classified as extincted form now onwards. Saddam had it at least running. --yousaf465' 07:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. We don't generally run airline bankrupcies, as they are far too common. You would need to show some sort of global significance for this to go up. Physchim62 (talk) 10:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. I would say this and this is ample evidence that this was no ordinary or run of the mill airline failure. And it unsurprisingly getting cross continental news coverage. MickMacNee (talk) 13:14, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
The article to update would be Iraq–Kuwait relations which is, at the moment, pathetic. I stand by my opposition. Physchim62 (talk) 13:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
They are all pathetic, at least the ones that haven't been dragged kicking and screaming through Afd anyway, only to emerge the other side resembling just a laundry list of trivia. Most of these relations articles have only been created recently, by one editor, and not for any reason that they were needed, and it frankly really shows in most of them. Argentina - Britain is an other chuckle-fest of 'wtf is this?'. MickMacNee (talk) 23:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

TV Brasil Internacional

Weak oppose. A new TV station is not really newsworthy. I realise that TVBI is meant to become the next Al-Jazeera, but it's a bit CRYSTAL-balling to say that it will. Until then, it's just another international TV station, of which there are dozens. Physchim62 (talk) 10:19, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Targetted at half of Africa, that's pretty ambitious and encompassing without the need for speculations. __meco (talk) 14:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Propaganda stations like VTV4 are nothing out of the ordinary. These ones are always free and you can catch them with a strong antenna, so 1 or 200 countries, it is nothing remarkable YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

May 26

ITN candidates for May 26

Alaotra Grebe is extinct

The Alaotra Grebe, a grebe endemic to Madagascar, is declared extinct. (BBC) The article has been updated, but not significantly expanded. I think this is worth posting (the last confirmed extinction of a bird species was in 2008) once the article is expanded more. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Support Excellent choice for an ITN. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Support All mammal and bird extinctions should go on ITN. __meco (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, this is a type of encyclopedic news that is fit for ITN. --Tone 21:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Concur with above. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:07, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Posting, but it would be nice if someone could add a little more detail than "it's extinct". I think that's outweighed by the staleness of ITN, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
One more support (just in case). An extinction is a good enough reason. --candlewicke 02:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Support for the story, but strong oppose for an article with so little new materials added to it. Would've preferred that we waited till after the article has grown a bit more. --PFHLai (talk) 02:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Atlantis completes final mission

  • Space Shuttle Atlantis completes its final scheduled mission after landing at Kennedy Space Center, Florida.
    • Ends of manned space missions are typically notable enough, this one even moreso. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 16:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. There are two more scheduled final launches and landings, all for this year, and it is not even a certainty that this was this Orbiter's final mission. At this rate, nobody is actualy going to give a monkeys when the final final mission happens. MickMacNee (talk) 17:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, because we already posted the fact that it was the final mission when it was launched last week. No need to post it again. Modest Genius talk 18:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Support The Space Shuttle era is coming to an end. Let's salute it 'til it's all gone. __meco (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, let's mention it when the last shuttle completes the mission. Atlantis was mentioned at the launch already. --Tone 21:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

May 25

ITN candidates for May 25

Surinamese legislative election, 2010

Parliamentary elections in Suriname - Dumelow (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Article is obviously sub-par at the moment, I will attempt to take a look at it some time today. Don't know when the results will be out yet - Dumelow (talk) 09:23, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Preliminary results show former dictator Dési Bouterse winning a plurality of seats. No news on when final results are to be expected - Dumelow (talk) 19:32, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Results are in now. --PFHLai (talk) 02:32, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

North Korea is to cut all relations with South Korea

Pyongyang's official news agency reports that the North was also expelling all South Korean workers from a jointly-run factory north of the border. South Korea says it plans to refer North Korea to the UN Security Council, and is seeking a unified international response to the incident. ---- Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 15:08, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Source: ---- Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 15:08, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

The source has problems, it's not a single factory.--Nutriveg (talk) 15:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
2010 Korean crisis - we need a new article. Those developments can't go all into the sinking article--DAI (Δ) 16:58, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
How about updating/expanding North Korea – South Korea relations? --PFHLai (talk) 00:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
That article should cover a lot of ground... and considering its current state, it would require a lot of work to get it up to ITN standards IMHO. I like DAI's idea. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 02:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Severe heat wave sweeps Maharashtra, India. 28 deaths reported.

At least 28 deaths were reported in Maharashtra as temperature reach 50 degree Celsius. ---Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 14:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Air India services halt as workers strike

13,000 Air India workers strike halting all services. All domestic flights after 12:00 IST (UTC+5:30) have been cancelled. All except some international flights of Air India Express have been cancelled. Air India officials say that soon the conditions would get better and the services will run smoothly.The strike woke up after the recent Mangalore Air Crash -- Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 13:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Industrial disputes are not uncommon by any measure- the same thing is currently happening to British Airways. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Kingston unrest

Deaths are reported in fighting in Kingston, Jamaica, as authorities try to arrest Christopher Coke, an alleged drug lord.--DAI (Δ) 12:20, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support the BBC has just reported that at least 27 civilians have been killed there [11]. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:05, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support This is a pretty major government operation taking place. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 18:19, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
For the record, this can't go up with that orange tag on it. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 18:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Well it's not postable anyway atm- it needs expanding and I'm sure the sourcing issues will be addressed with that. I took the yellow tag off though. Then got annoyed with it and sent it to TfD! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:33, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - article still needs work but seems to have been expanded with more sources. Scanlan (talk) 21:30, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Article is looking a lot better, and the situation continues to be in the news as the siege continues. Random89 00:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Hopefully I have improved it further. At least 44 civilians are killed and at least 37 others are wounded during unrest in Kingston, Jamaica. --candlewicke 04:31, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:30, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

warsaw floods

oppose already had a c. europe on the ITN page, and its also not news if they "prepare" for anything. nothing had happened.Lihaas (talk) 06:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Train Derails in Naugachia, India. No fatalities reported.

A train derails in Naugachia, India. No fatalities reported. Train derailed as the driver applied emergency brakes after he heard a loud explosion. 14 coaches of Delhi-Guwahati Rajdhani Superfast Express derailed. - Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 08:00, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Main Article: 2010 Naugachia train derailment - Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 08:00, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose unless there's some major new development in this story it's closer to AfD than ITN. —Ed Cormany (talk) 10:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose India has the world's largest rail stock and it also has disproportionally many accidents. This seems like a minor incident. We even had a similar derailment here in Norway during the last week which no one has even bothered writing a Wikipedia article about. __meco (talk) 10:44, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Very minor incident. Nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2010 Naugachia train derailment. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:00, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

May 24

ITN candidates for May 24

Egyptian archeologists unearth 57 ancient tombs

Discovery, Google News-- I can't find an article but it seems to be an interesting find and might be an interesting history-related posting.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:29, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Lahoun? I can't find the article, either. Faiyum, Faiyum Oasis and probably Second dynasty of Egypt could use some new materials, I suppose. --PFHLai (talk) 03:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

South Korea halts trade with North Korea

As a development on the sinking of the ROKS Cheonan the South has frozen trade. Trade between the two is responsible for 13% of the North's GDP ($1.68 billion). The measures have been described as "about as tough a response as the South could take, short of military action", Japan is also considering sanctions. Foreign_relations_of_South_Korea#Economic_relations would seem to be the place but that article is poor, perhaps there is somewhere else? - Dumelow (talk) 11:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Support - Trade embargos are a big deal, and as you said, it's the most severe sanction that can be imposed short of an invasion. Knowing that North Korea vowed war in response to punishment, this could unfold into some greater calamity.--WaltCip (talk) 14:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. The are massive interests in S Korea that suffer from any flair up in intra-peninsular relations (the stock markets suffer, Korean currency is hit, etc). Thus a major action by S Korea is a big deal.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:36, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

My suggestion:

The "Reaction" section of the bolded ROKS Cheonan sinking article is the obvious place to put it IMO, but it needs to be updated first. Thue | talk 15:28, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Strong support this is a strong response from South Korea that could lead to something really big. --PlasmaTwa2 18:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note: I'm not seeing much of an update... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:35, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

It's "most" not "all" the Kaesong industrial area near the DMZ that's excluded from this.--Nutriveg (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Support I've put an updated in ROKS Cheonan sinking#Reaction. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:33, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Note for posting - none of the reliable sources say that "all trade" has been suspended so we can't say it in the blurb. I would suggest something like "South Korea restricts trade with North Korea and announces joint naval training exercises with the United States in response to the sinking of the ROKS Cheonan." --Mkativerata (talk) 19:43, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Support as above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Attabad lake going to overflow in a few days/ hours time

My third nomination in a single day. The lake is going to overflow any time soon, we don't have article yet, but it is a major disaster in making. A large number of people have been displaced. Google news --yousaf465' 08:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

  • I would like to support the news for Attabad lake but there is not even an article for this newly created natural lake. I think this newly created natural lake on January 4, 2010 should have had an article by now. --GPPande 10:20, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
    • I have started the article for the same. Maybe you can join in and add some more stuff to make it ITN-ready. --GPPande 10:31, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Wait till the lake actually bursts ( but get the article ready)--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:20, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Support I'm not so sure we should wait. May 27 is the predicted date the dam will yield. This is probably a news story people will want to follow from now and until the breach. __meco (talk) 14:32, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Article needs to update, anyone interested may contact me for any info required. --yousaf465' 16:23, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose nothing's happened. Wait til something happens that most people care about. This isn't Lake Michigan or Lake Como bursting. ~DC Talk To Me 17:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. As I keep repeating, 'going to' is NOT a story. Wait until something actually happens. Modest Genius talk 20:27, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
That is what we are saying, prepare the article and then wait for it's bursting, although it's not Lake Michigan already it has displaced enough people. It been regarded as major disaster here. --yousaf465' 02:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
It is not correct that nothing has happened. Dozens of upstream villages have already been inundated. __meco (talk) 10:49, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
FFS if you have reliable info the add it to the articles! at present, there is minimal WP content to flag on the main page. Physchim62 (talk) 16:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Trinidad and Tobago general election, 2010

  • Seems like a no-brainer for ITN, as long as the article gets properly updated with official voting data (not exit polls) and some referenced prose on the outcomes. (Ditto for yesterday's Ethiopian general election, 2010, but someone should work on it.) --PFHLai (talk) 06:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
strong support as per the 3 elections yesterday too. Although the Philippines elections for some reason was overlooked. Really that hould be up there too.Lihaas (talk) 22:27, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The "official" result for the Philippine election will be known at mid-June at the latest. It's almost certain that there'll be a good enough update by then. This was what I was talking about when I said that will take a long time before the result would be known. –Howard the Duck 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not about support, it's about having an article of sufficient quality. Once the results are in and the article is adequate, it's almost certain to go up, but it won't go up if nobody updates the article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Hence my post here, hoping to get the attention of editors interested in current events-related wikiarticles. PM Patrick Manning has conceded defeat, and Kamla Persad-Bissessar is slated to take office as the first female PM of T&T. This story should be ITN material. --PFHLai (talk) 03:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes OK, it does need an update though before it can go on the Main Page. --candlewicke 04:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
With the first Trinidadian female Prime Minister, this is probably more notable than the Dominican election. But the article definitely requires at least a table typically found in legislative election articles with vote totals and changes by party. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 18:15, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. I've done an update so it might be ready to go up. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:27, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Do you happen to have a blurb in mind? -- tariqabjotu 21:09, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
How about... "The People's Partnership wins a general election in Trinidad and Tobago; Kamla Persad-Bissessar is set to become the country's first female Prime Minister." The catch is that she doesn't become Prime Minister until she's sworn in, but the sources are happy to say she has been "elected". --Mkativerata (talk) 21:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Asian Baseball Cup

Final is taking place between Pakistan and Hong Kong. Rest is gibberish to me. User:Howard the Duck understands better.BaseballdeWorld--yousaf465' 06:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose as this is not a premier event in the world of baseball. For ITN, let's stick with the World Series, the World Baseball Classic and maybe the Baseball World Cup. Where's the wikiarticle, anyway? --PFHLai (talk) 06:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Can't say anything, don't know more. Should I create one similar to Asian Baseball Championship ? . --yousaf465' 07:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
You'd know it's a crappy tournament if an Asian baseball final didn't include teams from among Japan, Korea, Taiwan and China. –Howard the Duck 10:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Can't add anything to the above. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:54, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose'. My first thought was Howard's.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Hey at least it's more "international" than the "World" Series... ;) –Howard the Duck 13:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
At least the World Series is actually a top-tier event in baseball. Considering the players' nationalities instead of the teams' addresses, the World Series is more international than the Finals in the *National* Basketball Association. --PFHLai (talk) 19:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Gotta blame the Celtics for having an all-American roster. –Howard the Duck 03:02, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Gotta love the Raptors for having 3 European starters! --PFHLai (talk) 03:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah but they suck so bad they haven't even reached the Conference Finals so they can't be at the "N"BA Finals... –Howard the Duck 03:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
The Flyers suck, too, but they're going to the "N"HL Finals! --PFHLai (talk) 04:19, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
I think teh Flyers have more Canadians than Americans on their roster so for the non-initiated that seems international. –Howard the Duck 04:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Australia gets into action

Expels diplomats on charges of passport forgery.Herald Sun.reuters --yousaf465' 03:07, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose As happy as I am to see this decision made, it's not in my view significant enough to ITN. Asking Israel to withdraw a diplomat is fairly low down the "we're angry with you" scale of diplomatic messages. It's not like the ambassador was kicked out. --Mkativerata (talk) 03:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems to be turning into Lillehammer affair II. --yousaf465' 03:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose certainly not ITN worthy. diplomats getting expelled is not that notable.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment:' Diplomat ' ?, what Diplomat? Not exactly the Petrov Affair is it? -- (talk) 20:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

May 23

ITN candidates for May 23

Nagorno-Karabakh parliamentary election, 2010

support as per all election results on the front page. if little mauritus/maldives gets on then these little states too. (with the results obviously) Lihaas (talk) 21:58, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Non-recognized country. The only partially-recognized states I'll support are the Republics of China and Kosovo. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 22:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not sufficiently recognised as independent to warrant ITN treatment. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:04, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to note that a Maldives one went up because they were the first democratic elections since the country gained independence. SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:23, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Never mind the fact that both the Maldives and Mauritius are widely (universally?) recognized as independent countries. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 22:25, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. It thinks it is independent and who am I to argue. "More than 70 international observers are supervising the polls" and there is enough interest for several countries to call it "illegal". Source --candlewicke 01:39, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
By the way, what is the reason for supporting the Republics of China and Kosovo but not others (out of curiosity)? :-) --candlewicke 01:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I can't speak for BJB, but in my view: Taiwan is massive and its elections always get significant international coverage; and Kosovo's independence is well-recognised internationally.--Mkativerata (talk) 01:48, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Ah but Kosovo declared independence only two years ago and is not recognised by a significant proportion of the world, including several states in the European Union, several states in NATO and one of its neighbours. ROC is recognised by even less. --candlewicke 02:04, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Mkativerata got it pretty well. Kosovo is recognized by three of the permanent five UNSC members, the Republic of China is de facto recognised by most major countries, though it is with a wink and a nod to please the People's Republic. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 02:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Does Wikipedia favour the UNSC? What is the definition of a major country and what is the alternative? I am missing why de facto applies in certain cases and de jure in others and who decides this. Perhaps there is a lot of winking and nodding? ;) --candlewicke 02:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Nagorno-Karabakh is actually recognised according to list of states with limited recognition. --candlewicke 01:46, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
It is recognised by one other "state", Transnistria, which isn't independent itself. --Mkativerata (talk) 01:49, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
But Transnistria declared independence 20 years ago and is itself recognised. --candlewicke 01:56, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Only be two, also barely-recognized states. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 02:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The two that recognise Transnistria are themselves recognised by (among others) Russia, Nicaragua, Venezuela and Nauru. Russia is certainly quite big (particularly if one considers Taiwan as "massive" - though I am not sure if this was a geographical reference by Mkativerata) and it's quite a bit bigger than Kosovo. --candlewicke 02:35, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
IMHO the bigger distinction is both Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh are "Recognized by UN non-members only" regardless of who those UN non members are recognised by. Personally I would have no problem listing all "UN non-members recognized by at least one UN member". I'm actually not opposed to listing this either (I'm somewhat a believer in recognising the reality regardless of whether it is a good thing, e.g. thats one of the number of the reasons I support naming the article Myanmar not Burma) but IMHO there's a clear distinction between this and Kosovo, Taiwan and others like Abkhazia, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, South Ossetia, Northern Cyprus and the Palestinian Authority. Nil Einne (talk) 12:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

This debate reveals the ludicrousness of trying to determine what is news based on fixed rules, like "national elections are always newsworthy." The fact is, the article is crummy, there is very little interest among Wikipedia readers in the subject matter, and this election will get hardly any coverage in Anglosphere media. Whether this entity is a real country is not the issue. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:57, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - non-recognised state, poor article, no widespread international interest. Modest Genius talk 20:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Cannes Film Festival

Thai film Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives wins the Palme d'Or. This is WP:ITN/R. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:44, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. Plus, it's the first Asian movie to win the Palme d'Or since 1997. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 20:39, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support as above. Its a good news story too. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:41, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note: a bit more prose would be nice. There's currently a short paragraph just before all the tables start, if that could be expanded (and possibly put in its own section) then it should be postable. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

I've added some more prose and separated into its own section. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks OK to me. I suppose a free image would be overly optimistic? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
We have an image of the film's director, but it isn't really usable due to quality. Nothing else I can find. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:12, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
(ec) I suppose we could use the release poster for the movie under fair use but I wouldn't know where to get that. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:13, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
We can't use fair-use images on the main page, sorry. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:14, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Don't apologise, I think that's a good thing. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:15, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I quite like that image- I think the low quality makes it strangely artistic- so I cropped it and put it up. I prefer it to having a picture of a trophy up there anyway, but if it's no good, I can switch back. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
The image looks good: it is rubbish in its full size but is quite ok when cropped. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:34, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
That proves what rubbish my eyes are. That actually looks good at 100px. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:37, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Dominican Republic parliamentary election, 2010

The final results came in yesterday with the Dominican Liberation Party winning a majority in senate and the lower house. The article could use some more prose, I'll try to add some later today - Dumelow (talk) 10:38, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Support as WP:ITN/R. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Blurb: "The Dominican Liberation Party retains a majority of seats in the Senate and Chamber of Deputies of the Dominican Republic"? - Dumelow (talk) 21:37, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
How about "increases its majority" - perhaps a bit more informative. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:39, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm prepared to post this per ITN/R, but any chance of one more person commenting- especally on the vlurb- before I do so? Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Well, I just got an edit conflict saying I was going to post it. It would be nice to get the words "general election" in there, but I can always tweak it after it goes up once I've thought of a better way of doing it! Just for the record, support. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
      • Posted- I tried to get those words in there. Tweak to your heart's content. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
(Sorry because I suggested it) Should "increases its majority" be "increases its majorities"? --Mkativerata (talk) 21:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
You're probably right, I'll tweak it that way. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
"increases its majority" -- could we change the main page because majorities doesnt make sense. Lihaas (talk) 22:03, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the plural is required here. The government has two majorities: one in the Senate and the other in the Chamber of Thingies. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:28, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Cargo Ship MV Dubai Moon sinks in Gulf of Aden

Moved to #ITN candidates for May 21. --PFHLai (talk) 12:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Fuzhou train derailment

A passenger train derails in China - at least 10 deaths, scores are injured in critical condition. [12] - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 06:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Weak oppose. Doesn't seem particularly ITN-worthy to me but others might let us know if derailments of this kind are regularly included. In other news, a bus crash in China killed 32 people.[13] --Mkativerata (talk) 07:04, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support the Halle train collision and 2010 Merano train derailment were posted on ITN, and according to List of rail accidents (2000–2009) its the most serious rail accident, in terms of passenger deaths, in China since 2008 and the second most serious since 2000. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:31, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support if the examples above went up this should too. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:42, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Definitely. The one in Washington killed only four people and was included. --candlewicke 09:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
No problems posting it, but as is, it is currently too short. Can it be expanded more? Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:16, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Done. A passenger train travelling from Shanghai to Guilin derails in a mountainous area near Fuzhou, Jiangxi. --candlewicke 10:00, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
You've got the piping to the city wrong - it should be: A passenger train travelling from Shanghai to Guilin derails in a mountainous area near Fuzhou, Jiangxi. . -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:03, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Great catch. Posted. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Um... the layout of the article is a bit odd. There are seven consecutive one-line paragraphs (consisting of one sentence or two very short sentences each). Sure, the article is long enough, but it doesn't look like an article at all. -- tariqabjotu 10:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the last couple edits have taken care of that, but if you want to remove it, I won't object. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:15, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I've made some further improvements along those lines. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:25, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I think it's okay now. -- tariqabjotu 10:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

For grammar shouldn't it be Jiangxi province rather than just Jiangxi? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 12:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

If there's a need to disambiguate from "Jiangxi the city", or "Jiangxi the waterfall", etc., maybe. But I won't call this a grammar-related issue. And I think the blurb in MainPage is OK as is. --PFHLai (talk) 12:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Ethiopian general election, 2010

Being held today. Nominate for posting once it is confirmed whether the government has been returned or defeated. --Mkativerata (talk) 06:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support, when a referenced results section of prose is added. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:55, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
support ditto spencerLihaas (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support too. --candlewicke 02:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Support once the article is updated with the results Modest Genius talk 20:31, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Note The chairman of the election board has announced that the government has definitely won the election. Final results won't be announced until late June [14]. I'm not sure what the precedent is here, but I don't think waiting for full results is warranted. ALl reliable sources are saying the government has won. What is newsworthy is that the government won the election and the article has been updated accordingly. Although I do think waiting a fewmore hours wouldn't hurt as the BBC etc are still saying the government "won" in inverted commas so they're hedging their bets. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:35, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

"The biggest windfall in global sport from the outcome of a single event"

I saw this item in the portal, wondered why it was there and on further examination Times Online suggests this is generates more money than the Champions League (now on the Main Page) and the World Cup.

"That outstrips any previous prize on offer to a team or individual from a football match, including the Champions League final or World Cup final, any boxing match, horse race, golf tournament or tennis event, or any single event in the major sports in America, home to four of the world’s richest sports leagues".

This sounds astonishing to me. That it is the most lucrative game in one sport maybe but all sports? America? "£88m guaranteed [...] in the worse-case scenario". Can that possibly be accurate? I am unable to locate the catch here - there must be one somewhere. The Independent calls it "the most lucrative game in the history of British sport" and says a quarter of a town's population was there. --candlewicke 01:11, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

If you're a real estate agent and you;re selling me a shanty, I'd think you'd be selling me a castle. –Howard the Duck 01:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
  • The Times lays it out pretty clear - with the new TV deal, the new parachute payments, the increased revenues etc, this one win is notionally worth this amount 'guaranteed', although accrued over a few years. I do doubt Bloomfield Road's capacity for the prawn sandwich brigade, and Olly seems a bit of a hippy and was actually wanting to lower ticket prices, but they aren't the big chunks. The reality is though, the nature of the league is that, for any club not in it for the mere money, is that most if not all is already spoken for. Realistic scenario, they could spend £40 over the season and still not be sure of staying up. At worst, they will blow it on doubling the size of their stadium, only to still get relegated and never see the ROI, or chase the dream and end up doing a Leeds. But is absolutely not realistic though to even begin to compare it to say Roger Federer's one match prize pot - for one, that will not be his only revenue that year as a consequence of winning, what with endorsements etc, plus, he does not basically have to spend 95% to even have a chance of staying at the same level next year. When you think of what Schumacher et al actually earn, as one person, they clearly have in relative terms, much more riding on single outcomes. Anyway, this is ITN, you have about as much chance of this being posted as if you had just told the simple truth - it should go up because it was simply a better game to watch than that overhyped rubbsh that is the Champions League, and Olly is a one of a kind lunatic. MickMacNee (talk) 02:27, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Eh... so are either of those a support or an oppose? I genuinely don't know what to think. --candlewicke 02:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I guess he means that "The biggest windfall in global sport from the outcome of a single event" isn't worth it since at worst you'll get bankrupt and at best you'd lose everything that you've won? –Howard the Duck 04:41, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. I Like the sales pitch but its just a promotion playoff. --Mkativerata (talk) 06:02, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Mkativerata. In terms of football, this isn't very important. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:25, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 IIHF World Championship

Czech Republic wins in ice hockey worlds final in Germany when defeats Russia 2-1. Sweden takes third place beating home team.--Sevela.p 22:16, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Nom, as soon as the finale ends. --bender235 (talk) 19:24, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I would support this item, but it was decided that the World Championship would not go on ITN in Olympic years. --PlasmaTwa2 20:29, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
strong support if the european soccer championship (CL + UEFA Cup) can go on then this is certainly bigger. (and even before the above windfall commentLihaas (talk) 21:56, 23 May 2010 (UTC))
I wonder if it would be possible to post this due to its (somewhat) surprising result. --PlasmaTwa2 22:21, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Suprising or not, I think this is notable sport event. Maybe I'm not objective because I'm Czech but Russian won should be post just the same in my view.--Sevela.p 22:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support The World Championships in a genuinely international sport. In my view, that's ITN worthy. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:29, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Support I was the one who originally wrote the guideline suggesting that the wc be replaced by the olympics in applicable years. However, since then the number of events on ITNr has increased, and the general ITN threshold has lowered. Those two things together result in my support vote. Also, there was some amount of support for the KHL final a couple weeks ago, which ultimately didn't go up, but that does suggest there is some support for an additional hockey item. Random89 22:38, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Some prose would be nice. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, because it was my understanding that the Olympic ice hockey was replacing this in winter olympic years (see the note on ITNR for example). Modest Genius talk 23:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I thought that was the idea as well, but like Random says, there has been an increase in ITNR events. I don't believe that three items every four years is too much for an international sport like hockey. I do believe that this tournament itself is newsworthy in itself since it is the second-most attended in the championship's history and it had a somewhat surprising result. --PlasmaTwa2 00:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Posting. I believe MG raises a valid point. However, there is obviously a clear majority in support but more importantly, I believe Random89's argument is a strong one against MG's point and there is a decent update to the article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:54, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Belated support for this, but do we really need the MVP in the blurb? It's making this a four-line story on my screen. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 02:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
It should be shorted to MVP, in my opinion. Everyone knows what it means. --PlasmaTwa2 02:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
They most certainly do not, that term is only common in north american sports. Putting MVP with a link to most valuable player is probably fine though. (also, currently a six line story in my browser, mostly because of the adjoining picture) Modest Genius talk 03:17, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose and remove from ITNR, at least on Olympic years. This tournament doesn't nearly have the best players in the world (an argument that was used quite strongly with the IPL). For example, Canada and the US (the Olympic finalists) had one player each from the Olympic teams on their roster.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:03, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
And on the other hand, Russia almost had all of its best players (and they lost). This event is not comparable to the IPL because this is a world championship and the IPL is a domestic league. --PlasmaTwa2 03:23, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
If anything the fact that Russia lost with a mostly intact team is evidence that this tournament means less than the Olympics. This 'world championship' has a severe lack of top players. Russia has most of its top players mainly due to the randomness of NHL teams being knocked out of the playoffs. Anyway, I certainly support getting rid of bit about the Most Valuable Player completely. It's five lines on my computer. Is Dennis Endras really notable enough for ITN?--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

May 22

ITN candidates for May 22

Apa breaks his own record

Apa Sherpa has made it to the top for the twentieth time. This seems more of a landmark event than the nineteenth time (and the same blurb as last year can be used). Apa, a Nepalese Sherpa mountain climber who holds the world record for summiting Mount Everest more than any other person, breaks his own record. --candlewicke 21:46, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose the first time he broke the record was perhaps somewhat significant but this one is not. I know some people have objected to putting it up the 100m every time Usain Bolt beats it but other then the far greater attention, that's a record which requires a significant achievement every time to beat. While climbing Everest is no small feat (as I think someone pointed out last time) now that he has the record he'll beat it every time he climbs akin to say Muralitharan beats the world record for most number of test wickets in a career everytime he gets one (although I appreciate it's easier to get a test wicket then to climb Everest). While something like when Schumacher was winning the WC for the 7th time or whatever may seem the same, those are usually things we put up whoever wins not solely because of the record (and I don't believe we're likely to put something we wouldn't put up otherwise everytime just because of a record). In terms of the 'nice round number' aspect which I presume is what you mean by 'landmark event' while I appreciate humans do use the decimal system and so people do tend to make a fuss about round numbers, even I do sometimes, I obviously still feel taking the record was more significant and particularly so hot on the heels of that, this just seems inconsequential. Perhaps try again at 25 or 30 or 50 or something. Edit: Actually I didn't read carefully and just realised we were doing the same thing last year. Well even more good reason not to repeat that mistake (which received several opposes in WP:Errors). Perhaps putting this one up would have been okay if we hadn't already put something up we shouldn't have. To put it a different way, we were never going to put Apa Sherpa up every time he climbs Everest so if we really wanted to put him up this time, we shouldn't have already put him up last time for no good reason. Nil Einne (talk) 12:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Famous Indian Telugu Poet Veturi Sundararama Murthy dies at the age of 74

Famous Indian Telugu Poet Veturi Sundararama Murthy dies at the age of 74. Veturi was a famous poet who won many awards for his lyrics in many movies in Southern India. He died on 22nd May 2010, 9:30 PM (IST) in Care Hospital, Hyderabad due to cardiac arrest after being in ICU for two days.Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 17:49, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. 1) Standard death from old age. 2) Not that well known internationally. Thue | talk 17:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Thue's argument, + 3) Circumstances of his death amount to merely a single sentence of updating with no ref. If there's not much to write about, I question how significant this death is. 4) Most of the wikibio has no footnotes. Poorly referenced articles should be avoided, esp. when there is a {{contradict}} tag. --PFHLai (talk) 18:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Jordan Romero

Thirteen-year-old American becomes the youngest person to reach the summit of Mount Everest. - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 16:38, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Support This is a nice topic to post. (talk) 17:32, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems like everyone is climbing Mount Everest nowadays. Really diminishes the effect of that old idiom. I'd feel like a jerk opposing this, though.--WaltCip (talk) 17:48, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. IMO, ITN should be news which has some significance for world history, and not Guiness Book of Records. Thue | talk 17:51, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Support this is pretty impressive and would be of interest to many people.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:09, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. He went up with his family and three local guides and, according to the wikiarticle, was described as a "token passenger" in a newspaper article. Would be more supportive if he went up there by himself using his own mountaineering tools and skills. --PFHLai (talk) 19:26, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The headlines are very misleading. "He just needs to scale the Vinson Massif in Antarctica" (source) and then I might support because a 13-year-old conquering the highest mountains on all seven/eight continents might be unique enough to be recognised. If it is posted now he would be nominated/posted again when he does this anyway. --candlewicke 21:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Champions League final

Its worth noting that whoever wins this will become only the sixth club in European footballing history to win the the 'Treble', something which I think should be included in the blurb --Daviessimo (talk) 10:44, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
The Treble is probably still worth noting but these trebles are becoming more commonplace (that's two in a row now) and less significant as a result. It's still worth a mention.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per ITNR. As for the 'treble' thing, I don't think that's particularly important - they are indeed much easier these days, primarily because changes to the entry requirements to the european competitions mean teams don't have to win their league twice in a row. Keep it short and simple. Modest Genius talk 18:32, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment I think completing the continental treble, the first for either club, would still be highly notable, despite people's perceptions to the contrary. If its not included, then we can at least include the date of their last European Cup/Champions League win - 2001 for Bayern, 1965 for Inter. MickMacNee (talk) 19:48, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support and I would like to see the treble included (that the winner won it, not necessarily how many have won it before) because it is a significant factoid that adds a bit of colour to what would otherwise be a dry blurb. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:50, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Note I suggest ITN link to 2010 UEFA Champions League Final as a final-specific article that has a lot more prose than the League article. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
The article has a fair bit of prose about the match now - I suggest it's ready to go up. For a blurb, how about Inter Milan defeat Bayern Munich in the 2010 UEFA Champions League Final to win a treble. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:50, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Support per ITNR. BBC front page says José Mourinho is "the third man in history to win it with two clubs", calls it important ("wrote his name into the history books"), suggesting that even if this is posted every year that this no ordinary event. --candlewicke 21:16, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Deep Depression ARB 1 (JTWC:01A) upgraded to a Tropical Storm, may hit somalia or Yemen anytime in 48 hours.

Deep Depression 01A has been upgraded to a tropical storm by JTWC and IMD. It has been named as Cyclone Bandu. The cyclone is now moving towards Yemen with wind speeds of 45 to 50 miles/hour. Nationwide warning is issued in Somalia and Yemen. Evacuation of coastal areas is going on.Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 04:13, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose For the record this cyclone has been named as Bandu but is not forecasted to make landfall as a tropical cyclone Rees (talk) 04:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Support Sorry, I did not include the name of the Cyclone. The JTWC has issued warnings for Somalia and Yemen. The course of this cyclone predicts that it may landfall Yemen or Somalia by the next two days.Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 04:13, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose at least till this cyclone does something significant. --PFHLai (talk) 04:29, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, per PFHLai's argument. Thue | talk 17:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. 'May hit' is not important - what matters is what actually happens. If there is major damage and loss of life, I'll change my mind, but right now this is a non-story. Modest Genius talk 18:33, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Plane skids off the Runway

Plane has skidded off the runaway in India, deaths are feared. Source later on.--yousaf465' 02:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support once we know a little more but it looks like a big death toll. --Mkativerata (talk) 02:41, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Wait until we know more. Merely sliding off the runway doesn't guarantee deaths; but seeing as we don't know a flight number yet, there's not a lot we do know for sure. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 02:53, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
160+ are reported as dead. --yousaf465' 03:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
If that turns out to be right, it's an obvious support from me, when that article is in better shape, and we actually have the facts. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 03:20, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
support should be obvious this will be up in the next few hours.Lihaas (talk) 03:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
We have a problem, we have so many creators of articles. More articles and more redirects. --yousaf465'
  • Support Yes its a nice topic. NDTV India reports that six people have been critically injured and are sent to local hospitals.
  • Support. --candlewicke 04:15, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Long enough? Air India Express Flight 812 crashes at Mangalore International Airport. --candlewicke 05:02, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
We probably ought to be a bit more liberal with the description. I'm not saying we should glorify the incident, but the blurb as it is might lead readers to believe that the event is insignificant compared with the rest of the new items. Perhaps wait until we have an official record of the number of fatalities?--WaltCip (talk) 05:16, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes I think article is a good shape now. I'm also going to post an warning on ITN error page, that even though we are posting two articles related to India this shouldn't be treated as Indian bias. --yousaf465' 05:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
No one's going to think that. -- tariqabjotu 05:38, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Cyclone Laila hits Indian coast

Bumped from May 20. I'm neutral, but it seems to have some support... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:22, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Cyclone Laila hits the Indian coast as it landfalls near Machlipatnam on 20th May. The storm grew to a large Category 1 cyclone on the way to its landfall. Till now, about 14 fatalities are reported. The government of India has ordered a large scale evacuation in Visakhapatnam and Machlipatnam. About 100,000 fishermen and people living in coastal areas have been evacuated. Streets in Machlipatnam remain flooded.

Is this isn't a nice topic to put on the main page? For reference. You can see the Main Page, Cyclone Laila. Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 15:42, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support - seems like a good topic to post. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 17:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Category 1 hurricane isn't that impressive when it's recurrence rate is considered, compared to April when a ten death EF4 tornado (which comprises less than 2% of tornadoes) and 50+ tornado outbreak was rejected. Ks0stm (TCG) 22:09, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Support I misread what the nom said as it had only caused 14 deaths =P Ks0stm (TCG) 04:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Death toll makes it notable. If 56 people died in Europe or North America this would be a clear case. So it should be here. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support 75,000 to 100,000 evacuated is also notable. But this needs major copy editing, e.g. "landfalls" isn't a word, and landfall isn't a verb, but a noun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:07, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Then go ahead and be WP:Bold.
At any rate, weak support only because of the precedent set for these nat'l disasters. but then again, 2 india articles in the same day?Lihaas (talk) 03:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support It is known today that 56+ people have ben killed due to this cyclone. More than 20 fishermen are missing in Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh, India.Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 03:53, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Oppose - I dont think Laila is worthy of going up on the main page as so far it has only cause 36 Deaths according to reliefweb and the times of India Esspecially when you consider that the NIO is one of the most deadliest basins with storms such as 1991 Bangladesh Cyclone, 1999 Orissa cyclone, Nargis each causing more than 10 000 deaths. I will retract my oppose should the death toll climb to a more respectable figure such as 150 or 200.Jason Rees (talk) 04:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I tend to support as "it is the worst storm to hit Andhra Pradesh in 14 years." per BBC. However, the article needs better refs, esp. for the death toll and the number of people evacuated. (The same BBC article says 23 deaths, not 56.) Prose about the impacts on Sri Lanka and South India also need wikifying, etc. Pls fix before showing this on MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 04:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support once updates are done. ~25 deaths is a lot wherever the location and whoever died. –Howard the Duck 04:43, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Significant numbers of deaths.--yousaf465' 05:19, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm... where in the article says "killing at least 56 people"? (I have to go off-line now, so someone please fix this. Thanks.) --PFHLai (talk) 15:49, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
That exact phrase isn't in the article but I think it's something like 30 in India and 26 in SL or vice versa. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
(Just regained control of my computer.) I've got 20 in Sri Lanka, 36 in Andhra Pradesh and 9 in Tamil Nadu for a current total of 65. I hope that's all. I've changed the death toll on MainPage to "dozens". The article and P:CE also need to be changed (Should've done that before ITN, but, oh, well....) --PFHLai (talk) 16:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

May 21

ITN candidates for May 21

Cargo Ship MV Dubai Moon sinks in Gulf of Aden

Cargo Vessel MV Dubai Moon sank in Gulf of Aden after it got engulfed in strong waves due to Tropical Cyclone Bandu. The storm disabled the cargo vessel and left it drifting off the Somali coast. 23 crew members were rescued by helicopters from the Royal Navy frigate HMS Chatham. Commander Simon Huntington of the frigate HMS Chatham described how his crew battled 26ft waves and 65 knot winds in order to save the 23 men on board the cargo ship MV Dubai Moon.[15]Tatiraju.rishabh (talk) 09:03, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

What updated wikiarticle do you want to feature on MainPage? The article MV Dubai Moon is not created yet, and Cyclone Bandu is a redirect. Please draft a headline with the link to the ITN candidate article bolded. It's hard to determine ITN-worthiness without first reading the candidate article. Please also post the headline on P:CE without the bolding. (Pls see Wikipedia:In the news#Procedural.) Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 12:45, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support: Thank you PFHLai for your kind support. I am not good in posting articles in the new page. I have created the page for MV Dubai Moon. Please post the topic in the main page.

First synthetic lifeform created in the lab (talk) 16:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

See the discussion under yesterday's date. --candlewicke 16:40, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Poland floods

- At least 5 deaths - the biggest natural disaster in last decade in Poland - [16] SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 15:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Cyclones in India are not unusual. In Poland the situation its very bad. - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 17:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Where is the article? The Prime Minister has told MPs this is "the worst natural disaster in the nation's history". Damage is valued at 10 billion Polish złoty so far. Reuters says tens of thousands of people are affected and France and Germany are sending assistance. Auschwitz concentration camp was threatened as well. Other countries affected too, such as Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. --candlewicke 19:16, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I start May 2010 Central European floods - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 19:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I know you've just started it, but it needs more than 2 sentences and it needs to be written in the past tense, not the present. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:05, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Was only a start. - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 20:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Weak Support. Has received international coverage, albeit not particularly prominent, and is affecting multiple countries and seems to be massive in Poland. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Expanded. Long enough? At least nine people die and thousands more are evacuated due to floods across several central European countries. --candlewicke 21:27, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks good to me. While I'm putting that up, can someone try and fix that gallery to avoid those unsightly white boxes? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Pamir Airways Flight 112

(again) Nobody survives - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 09:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment: A little premature SiMioN.EuGeN, they've barely reached the wreckage. [17] Reports say 15 bodies so far. wp:Verify! -- (talk) 10:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Right, does any body object to The wreckage of Pamir Airways Flight 112, which crashed in Afghanistan on May 17, is found; all 43 aboard are believed to have died.? If not, I'll post it soon given the support below. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Support posting now--Wikireader41 (talk) 13:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Late Concur: good blurb HJ. -- (talk) 13:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Japanese probes launched to Venus

Dawn launch sends Japanese orbiter on the way to Venus
Akatsuki probe, IKAROS solar sail spacecraft and UNITEC-1 student spacecraft are launched towards Venus by a H-IIA rocket. Hektor (talk) 09:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

  • UNITEC-1 is the first student-built spacecraft to operate beyond Geocentric orbit.
Support. Thue | talk 15:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per WP:ITNR. Significant Venus probe, though the UNITEC item is just a small technology demonstrator so I'm not convinced it should be included in the blurb. Modest Genius talk 19:40, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Physicists explain why there is more Matter than Anti-matter in the universe

[18] This is a huge news in Physics and for our existence. We know that after the big bang anti-matter and matter were both equally in amount. Yet our universe today is almost all matter. Which is good for us since we won't be here then. So these physicists did experiments "that when anti-protons and protons collide, the resulting new particles show a one per cent skew toward matter over anti-matter". --Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 05:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Anti matter again last time I read about it was in later part 1980s. --yousaf465' 05:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I bet most people reading that weren't even born then. ;-) --candlewicke 14:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Well the magazine was an Issue of Scientific American, and also contained articles on leopard's skin and something about submarines sonar system. So can somebody find out which issue was it ? --yousaf465' 14:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

May 20

ITN candidates for May 20

First synthetic cell

Scientist 'Creates Synthetic Life In Lab'. —  Cargoking  talk  17:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

BBC, NYT, Belfast Telegraph, Wall Street Journal and the Guardian. "One of the biggest scientific breakthroughs of the past two decades." —  Cargoking  talk  18:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Cautious support - This appears to be a highly significant scientific breakthrough, however the Craig Venter article or appropriate related article needs to be expanded substantially.yorkshiresky (talk) 18:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support98.247.218.30 (talk) 18:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Naturally support - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 19:04, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Rush to main page as soon as article is updated.--WaltCip (talk) 20:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, though we need to be very careful how we phrase the blurb. It is NOT a synthetic cell or life form, but a synthetic copy of a genome, plus some minor modifications, inserted into an existing cell. And I certainly don't think the updated article should be Craig Venter, but a newly created one. Modest Genius talk 20:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I suggest Mycoplasma mycoides, since that's the genome they reproduce. The Science article is here. Modest Genius talk 20:24, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
In fact, we might like to use the title of the Science paper as the basis for our blurb: 'Creation of a Bacterial Cell Controlled by a Chemically Synthesized Genome' Modest Genius talk 20:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
support my god we have finally created a Cylon -- Ashish-g55 20:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support once the article is updated. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:20, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Strong support To quote The Economist, "The result is the first creature since the beginning of creatures that has no ancestor".[19] To paraphrase the rest of the article, and all the other articles, artificial life has been created. However small, a huge line has been crossed. This is a major scientific development. Absolutely agree it should go up. HonouraryMix (talk) 23:16, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

My suggestion:

IMO the Mycoplasma laboratorium is the obvious main article, and it seems to be sufficiently up-to-date. Thue | talk 23:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. Is anyone else creeped out by this? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Adding one new sentence since March (plus some re-arrangements) is considered "sufficiently up-to-date"? No way. --PFHLai (talk) 01:18, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Very. Btw, I just changed "minimal" to "minimized", to try not giving the impression that the genome is proven perfectly minimal. Thue | talk 23:30, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
That's disturbing. Fascinating, but disturbing. Thae article could use a few aesthetic changes- section headers would be nice. Once that's done, I'll post. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Meh, what the hell, we've posted articles in worse shape and I'm sure it will be improved in tis time on the MP, so posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:41, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
That's the wrong article! Mycoplasma laboratorium has NOT been created yet. Read the paper! Modest Genius talk 00:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I've reverted myself. What's the matter with Mycoplasma laboratorium and what article, if any, should I be using? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Mycoplasma laboratorium is one of the next steps for Venter's company, but has not actually been made yet. I'm not aware of any article which has had the new developments added to it (I was too busy this evening to do it myself), but the work was done by building a synthetic mycoplasma mycoides genome and implanting it in mycoplasma capricolum. Craig Venter and J. Craig Venter Institute might get updated by someone, though I think mycoplasma mycoides would be a better place for the info to go. Modest Genius talk 00:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Just as an additional note, mycoplasma laboratorium is planned as part of the minimal genome project, which is based on the genome of mycoplasma genitalium, whereas the latest work uses mycoplasma mycoides. Modest Genius talk 00:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Bugger. I saw the Mycoplasma laboratorium claiming to have been created. I should learned by now that an encyclopedia article which non-experts can edit is not to be trusted :). Thue | talk 13:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, Significant development, another first by British after Dolly.--yousaf465' 03:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Except the team is in the United States, and lead by an American... Modest Genius talk 12:46, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Does this need any more support? An event which doesn't come along very often (about as often as a cure for cancer or AIDS I suppose) so if it has been confirmed I am happy to support too, especially now that life will never be quite the same again. --candlewicke 13:35, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Age has it's effects too.--yousaf465' 14:19, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Candlewicke, no, there's plenty of support. What there isn't yet is an updated article. It seems people are getting put off by having to read the science. I'd do it myself if I wasn't at work. Modest Genius talk 14:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

So let me try again, with a fixed suggestion:

And no, I don't have a problem with posting a red-link in an ITN blurb. Wikipedia is a work in progress. Thue | talk 15:13, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with a red link, though I'm certain it'll be unlinked within minutes. However, before we get that far, synthetic life needs more work if it's to be the bolded article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:25, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I can't believe this isn't on the main page yet. Is there anything else missing? The synthetic life article looks sufficiently updated.--WaltCip (talk) 21:10, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll put it up as soon as there's a sufficient update. Synthetic life is a mess and is tagged with {{refimprove}}. also, ITN criteria require "a substantial prose update". As soon as there is such an update to an article in an acceptable state, I'll put it up. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:16, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Still no sign of any update yet... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:19, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd support putting this up, but the last thing I want to do is wade into a biology article and try to update it. (Chemistry, physics, astronomy, I'd give it a shot. But not biology.) Bradjamesbrown (talk) 00:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I have tried to update Synthetic life (IANAB[iologist]). The relevant section is "Synthetic genome team at the J. Craig Venter Institute". Thue | talk 17:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support This really should have been listed already. It's a milestone moment in human history.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Everybody Draw Mohammed Day

I have juxtaposed two sections which basically deal with the same story. As no one responded to my call for doing so several hours ago on the talk page I went WP:BOLD. Let me also quote from the introduction to an article in the Christian Science Monitor, by all assessments a very moderate and insightful newspaper:

Less than a week ago, "Everybody Draw Mohammad Day" was just one artist's idea of a joke. By this afternoon, it had become a worldwide media event – the inspiration for street protests, fodder for cable news networks, and ammunition for armies of angry Facebook users who have vowed to boycott the popular social network.

__meco (talk) 20:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Pakistan blocks Facebook in response to Everybody Draw Mohammed Day groups

Since Everybody Draw Mohammed Day is set for tomorrow, May 20, i think this is a situation we need to monitor closely as this could escalate rapidly. __meco (talk) 15:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Let's hear it for assumptions. -- tariqabjotu 15:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
So that's why I had to protect the article earlier... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:57, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I didn't actually !vote, but at the present it's a solid oppose from me. While this makes a great feature story, especially because it fits the Muslims-hate-when-people-draw-Muhammad narrative, the blocking of a website by a single country is not notable enough on its own. Several other countries have blocked Facebook or YouTube or Richard Dawkins' website for various reasons, and I don't see any particular reason why this incident should stand out. If there were a more concerted effort to block Facebook, then I might consider supporting, but, as it stands, that's not the case. -- tariqabjotu 17:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
By this way, if this gets posted for some reason, please, for the love of God, don't post an accompanying picture... -- tariqabjotu 17:51, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
With the poster which started this being non-free content there is little chance of that. At least as of now. __meco (talk) 18:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Unknown - Drudge would normally be all over this (and I understand his conservative affiliations, but this is the kind of hotbed story he would post to drive up hits). As it is, a link to a relevant news article would help me decide whether this is a debatable ITN posting.--WaltCip (talk) 16:22, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Weak Support - Rather far-reaching implications. The existence of a single Facebook group having the power to cause an unequivocal shutdown throughout Pakistan seems like a story of interest.--WaltCip (talk) 16:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
My reasoning is that this issue seems to be getting explosive, as ooposed to me attempting to make a point which Tariqabjotu asserted on another page. __meco (talk) 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Supportthis would be of interest to many viewers.[20] also wonder if WP will be blocked indefinitely for putting this story on main page.--Wikireader41 (talk) 17:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support on the basis of Pakistan's (temporary) blocking of Facebook. That is certainly an ITN type event. MickMacNee (talk) 17:32, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Both encyclopedic and electric encyclopedic. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Sorry Susan, but what do you mean by "electric encyclopedic"? :-D --BorgQueen (talk) 17:46, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not just dead tree encyclopedias, they are digital, electronic media nowadays. (So are the pictures of Mohammed I would think.) -SusanLesch (talk) 17:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Leaning toward support. Its controversy appears to be notable and the article is pretty extensive. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:45, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
The article Criticism of Facebook is also updated. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Based on Pakistan's little temper tantrum (no comment as to whether or not it's justified), I'm expecting Facebook to remove these groups within the next 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't think we'll need to post this item--WaltCip (talk) 18:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) - Support - article looks good and I agree that this has international implications. Not only have there been protests against Facebook in Pakistan, but the high court has asked the Pakistan foreign ministry to raise the issue in international circles. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:54, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
    Indeed, you gotta admit that's one heck of an update. Still not supporting putting the story on the Main Page, but you have to give them credit. -- tariqabjotu 18:00, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose happened before in syria, no big deal.Lihaas (talk) 18:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Non western countries block websites all the time. We didn't for example feature pakistan blocking YouTube back in feb 2008. Now if they took down facebook for everyone.....(oh wait we didn't mention when they did that to youtube either).©Geni 18:17, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose The People's Republic of China blocks websites often, in a much larger country, and it isn't considered news. Pakistan isn't the PRC, but eleven days of blocking a U.S. website isn't of great importance. Also, DYK has already put this Everybody Draw Mohammed Day on the main page- twice, I believe. Do we really need to give it more publicity? Bradjamesbrown (talk) 18:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not a particularly unusual event. Many countries - including soon Australia - block websites for all kind of reasons. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Facebook privacy concern is a bigger news. Plus my workplace already ban it anyway. Permanently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:02, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per the many intelligent comments above this isn't all that uncommon or meaningful. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above; the banning of Facebook by Pakistan is not newsworthy, that kind of thing happens all the time. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Wait to see if anything notable happens. Pakistan blocking Facebook is not notable enough on its own, but there's potential for this to escalate. As always, we don't try to pre-empt events. Modest Genius talk 21:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:57, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Countries all over the world block websites which don't adhere to their laws, including Child Pornography etc. So I don't think we will be publishing the whole list of sites each day. Pakistan has done just done what was required under the law. --yousaf465' 23:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - Event seems to be getting some international attention. かんぱい! Scapler (talk) 05:46, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose censorship is not notable and the drawing campaign is joke YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment this is turning out to be a much bigger crackdown. now 450 sites including youtube are blocked. cant remember last time that such an en masse blockade happened. Pakistan of course is the only Muslim country reacting this way[21]--Wikireader41 (talk) 12:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Including wikipedia and still I'm editing it without any proxy, Isn't this supposed to be a joke, Or somebody reported it wrongly to businessweek ? --yousaf465' 03:23, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
OH she has apologized and now facebook doesn't have a official spokesman.AFP.--yousaf465' 03:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. An apology to Muslims as well? That's a large chunk of the world. It is a sensitive issue after all. There are those who take their religion very seriously so I support adding something about this, especially if multiple websites are affected. --candlewicke 13:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Pakistan bans parts of Wikipedia

Looks like the ban over Everybody Draw Mohammed Day has widened significantly & now includes WP and 450 other sites. I know this has been discussed recently. are we going to give in to those who don't believe in free speech and not put this on main page (NYT),(WP)--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:41, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this has some level of notability. However, your statement about giving in "to those who don't believe in free speech" seems to present an ulterior motive. Weak Support, as per the previous discussion.--WaltCip (talk) 15:22, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, per my previous comments. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support from me also, as before. But shouldn't we keep this tied together. Everybody Draw Mohammed Day may have surprises in store for us yet to be revealed. __meco (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
At minimum oppose categorizing it as Pakistan bans parts of Wikipedia and oppose the rhetoric.--Cube lurker (talk) 16:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong Oppose. Many many sites are blocked my many many countries, I cannot see how Pakistan's futile attempt at web censorship is notable in the slightest. Just to remind people, the Wikipedia Main Page is not a SOAPBOX. Physchim62 (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, a nation banning wikipedia is notable.--William S. Saturn (talk) 17:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. No it's not- it happens to many websites in many countries across the world and even if it was, there's no way to post this without giving the impression of sticking two fingers up to Pakistan... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not censored. --William S. Saturn (talk) 17:40, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
What does that have to do with anything? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Reread your own post. You seem to believe that showing that wikipedia and other websites are being censored by Pakistan is somehow going to offend Pakistan? --William S. Saturn (talk) 18:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean now! What I meant was that we shouldn't be doing this just to stick 2 fingers up- we're not censored, but we're not offensive just because we can be. I actually oppose the nomination, though, based on what I said above- that websites being blocked is not really uncommon. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I did some research and I see that you are right that nations censor websites often. However, most have not received as much media coverage as this particular case. The reason it is notable is because of the Muhammad depiction controversy, which has become a major issue in recent years.--William S. Saturn (talk) 18:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment 'we shouldn't be doing this just to stick 2 fingers up'. I don't think we should do this for that reason. There are probably many people who will appreciate Pakistan's principled stand on this issue and will be happy that at least one country has the guts to do this. as always we should use neutral language. what makes this notable is the amount of media coverage it is generating not necessarily the event ( blocking) itself.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:41, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose One of many examples of domestic internet censorship. Agree with Physchim62. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:43, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Correct, however there is a big difference with this case. --William S. Saturn (talk) 20:04, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Which is? Modest Genius talk 20:06, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Explained above. --William S. Saturn (talk) 20:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Cartoonists thumb noses at Muslims by drawing their prophet. Some Muslims react. Some thumb their noses at Muslims again by having an "Everyone draw Mohammed Day". Pakistan, a Muslim country, reacts. Now we propose wikipedia thumbing its nose at Pakistan. The juvenile nature of it all is all the more reason for wikipedia not to join in by putting this on ITN. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:30, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not taking a stand, wikipedia is just reporting that it is happening. --William S. Saturn (talk) 20:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I echo that. I have seen so often that editors squirm when it comes to being objective about news stories involving Wikipedia. We cannot hide our heads in the sand and delude ourselves, pretending it's not happening and recuse ourselves from dealing with it. __meco (talk) 21:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, internet censorship is nothing new, and I have WP:POINT concerns. Modest Genius talk 20:06, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Huh Wikipedia Banned I think some somebody nominated it just as I nominated the IPL 4,( it was a joke as some of editor rightly pointed out).--yousaf465' 03:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

$618 million paintings stolen

(The Guardian) (BBC) Five paintings by Picasso, Matisse, George Braque, Amedeo Modigliani and Fernand Léger have been stolen from the Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris. The museum article is probably the place for an update - Dumelow (talk) 11:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I have made a bit of an update at Musée_d'Art_Moderne_de_la_Ville_de_Paris#2010_theft. It is one of the biggest art thefts in history apparently - Dumelow (talk) 12:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - just came here to nominate this. The theft of anything that is worth approximately half a billion Euro's is notable in my opinion --Daviessimo (talk) 12:45, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - rare event, major heist. Update looks good, but it would be nice to expand the article in general a bit. --ThaddeusB (talk) 12:47, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
support price aside it still seems to be major news internationally. -- Ashish-g55 13:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Was also planning to nominate this. I just hope they get the works back. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 13:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

May 19

ITN candidates for May 19

No matches will be played in IPL 4

According to cricinfo IPL 4 matches canceled. ;) --yousaf465' 23:56, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not April Fool's Day again is it? Oppose for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who reads the article :p Modest Genius talk 00:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support.--WaltCip (talk) 03:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Umm, read the article It's a joke. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 03:37, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It's a slow news week.--WaltCip (talk) 03:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
"Page 2" is the comedy/satire section on Cricinfo YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It was just a joke, didn't somebody saw the ";)"before the signature. --yousaf465' 03:19, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Lost Man Booker Prize

Troubles by James Gordon Farrell won (per website), article needs to be updated. If we include the regular Man Booker Prize I don't see why we shouldn't have this "catch up" prize from 1970 - Dumelow (talk) 23:56, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd rather post this than the IPL 4 story above ;) (Seriously, Dumelow makes perfect sense. Support when the work is done.) Bradjamesbrown (talk) 03:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support after update —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 05:38, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support as this is for all intents and purposes the Man Booker Prize. I have updated the article. --Mkativerata (talk) 06:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Posted. Nice updating Mkativerata - Dumelow (talk) 10:04, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Korea tensions

support (in a day or 2 after official conference) The investigation into the sinking point to N. Korea can heighten tensiosn to more sanctions or even war (not that likely yet, but its a heightening of tensions)Lihaas (talk) 18:08, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Wait until war actually breaks out.--WaltCip (talk) 20:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
If and when SK officially attributes blame for the attack to NK, that will be ITN-worthy (support). This has been building and building for weeks. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:24, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I heard today that it is, indeed, confirmed that NK sank Cheonan, so Support. "wait until war breaks out"? Really?Ed (talkmajestic titan) 05:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. With the confirmation (at least allegation) that the sub was sunk by torpedoes this should go on ITN. __meco (talk) 09:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I suggest copying the current events blurb :

Thue | talk 10:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Romanian protesters

At least 40,000 Romanians rallied in the capital Wednesday to protest planned wage cuts the government says are needed to shore up the ailing economy. One of the biggest protest in Romania after 1989 Romanian Revolution. BBC Yahoo Reuters Mediafax - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I start 19 May 2010 Bucharest protests - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. It seems this was a moderately large but rather run-of-the-mill public protest, with no particularly notable aspects to it. Modest Genius talk 20:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I would think that a large national protest is a good contender but there have been so many of them everywhere on such a regular basis that ITN would soon be flooded with them. Is there anything particularly special that places this protest above others taking place around the world? --candlewicke 13:39, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Anti-government protests in Thailand 2010

The Thai army launches a push to take over the protesters encampment in central Bankok. Protest leaders surrender . The Wikipedia article needs an update. The stock exchange and various other buildings are on fire. Thue | talk 09:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

(BBC) Looks like the military have moved in and taken the camp. The red shirt leaders have surrendered but red shirt supporters are continuing to protest in other parts of the city. Anti-government protests in Thailand 2010 requires an update - Dumelow (talk) 09:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

The article seems to now be up to date. My suggestion:

Thue | talk 13:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

wait a day or 2 to confirm calm has been restored and the protests is truly over for now at leastLihaas (talk) 18:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I posted it. The current news item does not state that all protests are over. If all protests are over in a few days, then we can update the news item then. Thue | talk 19:07, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I have edited the post for language/content. We don't normally post details in a blurb [like which building were burnt], unless they are extremely important, which isn't the case here. Also, blurbs should be one sentence long if all possible. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:26, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I would think the fact that the city is ablaze (twenty-seven buildings on fire according to the BBC and Reuters) and under curfew should also be mentioned in the blurb. I'm not happy with the bolded article's title, but was reverted by the article creator, and so have filed a move request on the article's talk page. --Paul_012 (talk) 19:56, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
It was my judgement that the national stock exchange being on fire was pretty important. Thue | talk 10:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Pamir Airways Flight 112

I think this is due now. --yousaf465' 03:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Support - the wreckage has been discovered, but as of yet it is not known if there are any survivors. --Daviessimo (talk) 09:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - now is as good of time as any to get this clearly important story on ITN. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
support as per crashes like this having set a precedent for ITN. (Libya one was one recently, if memory serves--Lihaas (talk) 19 May 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note: I'm not at all averse to posting this, but what am I posting? The article, while in good shape, has no information on casaulties (I assume because none is known) and "a plane crashed in Afghanistan" is barely news any more... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:31, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

How about "43 people are missing after a passenger flight crashes in Afghanistan"? Support by the way.--Mkativerata (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Update needed Somebody please update the required info.--yousaf465' 23:26, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Note: there is nothing to update currently. The article doesn't have every known detail, but it has all the main ones. Earlier reports of the wreckage being found were incorrect. If a blurb went up now, it would have to say something like "A Pamir Airways plane carrying 43 people goes missing and is presumed to have crashed killing its passengers." --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Update Wreckage of the aircraft has been found.--yousaf465' 09:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

May 18

ITN candidates for May 18

Specter dumped

Thirty-year U.S. Senate member Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania loses his re-election bid to U.S. Rep. Joe Sestak in a primary election.

  • Specter is one of the best-known senators, serving since 1980, chairing important committees and representing one of the largest states (12.6 million people). It's very, very unusual for a member of Congress with that much experience to lose a re-election bid, especially in his own party's primary, although the circumstances are a little unusual here with Specter formerly being a Republican. This is now the lead story at the websites of The New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, The Washington Post and The Los Angeles Times and, in a combined story with Rand Paul's win in Kentucky, at the AP/Yahoo News. And like I always say, if lots of people are interested in an item, and it meets all of the other criteria, that should be enough -- it shouldn't matter who's not interested. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
comment. this is not a presidential election, its local. its not even an actual election but a bid for re-election. so can you please prove how it passes criteria for ITN inclusion other than he had experience... -- Ashish-g55 02:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not of the requisite international signifcance for ITN. --Mkativerata (talk) 02:54, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
(Responding to ashishg55's request for a response). First of all, it's not a "local" event. It's statewide in a state of 12.5 million people, more than Greece or Belgium. Secondly, this is of national interest because Specter is so famous in the U.S., which is why this is the lead story not just in Pennsylvania but in the entire U.S. national media and is also mentioned on the website of The Guardian (UK) and Sydney Morning Herald (Australia). I don't know what you mean by "not even an actual election but a bid for re-election." They're the same thing. If you mean that it's only a primary and not a general election, that is true, but what's important is that Specter has been axed -- he is now a lame duck and can't run again in November. It's not international, but then neither is gay marriage in Portugal or the oil blob off the Gulf Coast (not that I'm against either of those two events). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - this "international significance" hammer is applied a bit too indiscriminately, IMHO. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 03:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • He is certainly an iconic figure in US politics. He's credited with the Magic bullet theory of the John Kennedy assassination, well before he became a Senator in 1980. I'm hesitant about this one but he is certainly no ordinary US senator.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • We generally don't cover the elections of specific Senators or Congresspersons, regardless of whether they have served for long periods of time. We're establishing a fairly heavy precedent by allowing this one to go through.--WaltCip (talk) 04:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I have to ask, is he more more well-known than Ted Kennedy? ... (talk) 05:22, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

To answer that question, I would say no, IMO.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:43, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose a minister or opposition leader being purged in a factional battle is much more notable than a senator. It's also quite common in Asia eg China and India are also very large with giant corruption troughs, where factions just bin each other every month so that they can loot the treasury. No else we'll get junk eg Lalit Modi v Shashi Tharoor and everyone in every corrupt 3rd world country knifing and looting each other YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Oppose - Mwalcoff, if this affects one state, in one country, how can that be considered anything other than local. This election is to decide the Democratic candidate, who will then stand for one senate seat out of a hundred in the whole of the US Senate. Also, since when did the population of an area impact upon how notable the news was. I mean are we to presume that an election in Utter Pradesh is 15 times more notable than this, because it has a population of 190m people? --Daviessimo (talk) 07:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I certainly agree the population of Pennsylvania is not something that makes this item notable. If there's any notability here it's in his length of service (both as a Senator and previous to that) and his significant role in several political events such as the Warren Commission and the Clarence Thomas senate confirmation hearings. However, I'd say oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Wait for the general election. –Howard the Duck 08:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Too local. Thue | talk 09:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I feel it's important that we don't confuse the American media with "international coverage". As I've said before, American items will inevitably get more Google news hits, for example, than the story of the minute elsewhere because the American media is simply larger than that of any other country. The reason, however, that I oppose is because this doesn't even register in the top 20 stories in Google's "world news" nor on the BBC's world news page, nor on its "Americas" page, though there is an article about these elections in which this particular result merits a sentence. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose The defeat appears to be more down to his switch to the Democrats last year than anything else, and given the Yank media, that will make front page news whether he was was a novice or veteran senator. This wouldn't look like anything other than a local story to Main Page readers who didn't already follow Yank politics, so it doesn't carry any wow factor at all for ITN. MickMacNee (talk) 12:10, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Too local...and as Joe Lieberman showed when he lost his primary and still won as an independent, may have absolutely zero significance. --Smashvilletalk 20:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, domestic politics, no wider implications. Modest Genius talk 21:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I realize I'm outvoted and am not going to get worked up over it. However, I'd like to address a couple of misconceptions I was unable to respond to when I was at work all day today.

Firstly, my understanding is that Pennsylvania, like most states, has a "sore loser law" that prevents primary losers from running in the general election as an independent. Connecticut doesn't have that law, so Lieberman could win in November after losing the primary.

Second, the U.S. has three levels of government: federal, state and local. A local election would be one for mayor or county executive. Elections for governors or U.S. senators are state races, not local ones. But even if we were to dismiss "mere" statewide races, this was clearly a national story as made evident by the huge play it got in national media outside of Pennsylvania.

What I argue with is how an event of the same magnitude is rejected as an ITN item when a U.S. state does it but is accepted when a European country of equal or smaller size does it. If Pennsylvania were to legalize gay marriage, it would likely be rejected for ITN as "too local," but Portugal does the same thing and it goes up. To argue that "Portugal's a country and Pennsylvania's a subdivision of a country" is to use fallacious reasoning. The two laws affect their residents in exactly the same way, and Pennsylvania has more people and many times more readers of our site.

Finally, no one has ever been able to explain to me why an item predominantly of interest to Americans should automatically be rejected when Americans make up half of our readership, and most of our items are of interest only to certain groups (space fans, soccer fans, geopolitics buffs, etc.) Nothing else on the Front Page -- or on Wikipedia -- operates under such a clause. We have On This Day and Did You Know items mainly of U.S. interest right now, and on Saturday, the featured article will be about -- I am not making this up -- a pedestrian bridge in a Chicago park. They rotate those items with those of interest to other groups of people. I don't know why ITN can't be the same way. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:56, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

People give you plenty of reasons why, you just ignore them. You neeed to live with it. If you are going to get up in everyone's grill for not getting some American stories on the front page, then I am for sure going to go nuclear on some of my items that have been canned as being 'not global', or some other BS, while the latest Shuttle loo roll bullshit goes up. I'm with you brother, burn this motherfucker down already. It's a scandal it still exists, while people who actualy contribute content to the pedia, have to wait nearly a month for a DYK listing. MickMacNee (talk) 00:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Mwalcoff and your "World Series", with DYK there is no excess supply, for TFA, the other topics aren't contributing enough (classical music, culture, physics, maths, non Anglophone history etc) else there would be more variety. Obviously with ITN, there are enough decent articles but people haven't taken the oppoprtunity to bump off the featured unsourced stubs YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:17, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Mwalcoff, this issue has come up before and been debated ad nauseum, and will be again. I'd like to make a point about posting US elections. I do sympathize with your argument that the ITN preference for 'national' elections perhaps fails to recognize the significance of certain elections in the US's federal system. I do think the ITN community has tried to adapt--last year I believe a Senate special election resulting in the change of a 'supermajority' was posted--a type of election that is normally rejected because it is not 'national'.
However, we simply cannot be posting all elections that happen in the US. This wasn't even the main election, it was a primary. I know that the the primary was very significant in this case--it bumped off Specter--but the point is that in the US there are so many primaries, special elections, caucuses, referenda, etc, at the Federal, State, and local level. Very many of these elections seem important enough to make the front pages of US newspapers and even foreign press. We post an ITN item generally once a day--we could easily be posting US election news on a weekly basis on average if we didnt' have something of a filter.
Plus, I am not sure that there was so much interest in Spector among US readers. Beyond the Presidential election, the main congressional elections, and other top political stories, interest in US politics rapidly becomes confined to a narrow group of political junkies. I'd be interested to see stats on the readership of the related articles but I'd be surprised if they were astoundingly high.
Finally, not posting this now does not mean it won't get any ITN mention. Specter's defeat is mentioned in the United States Senate elections, 2010 article which will be posted as per ITNR in November.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:21, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your well-reasoned response, John. I respect your point of view. I don't think I'm right all the time, I just get annoyed when people base their opposition on silly "rules" that don't make any sense. I'm sorry if I've seemed irascible. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:24, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Just, no. It's a state of one country (irrespective of its population - if we went by that criteria, we'd be posting results from the states of India!) and, has been pointed out, it's not even the main election. HonouraryMix (talk) 12:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Afghan NATO convoy attack

18 killed in a suicide car bombing on NATO convoy in Afghanistan.(AP), [22](CNN)--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:57, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I have started the article May 2010 Kabul bombing--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
weak support better article now but could use an expansionLihaas (talk) 23:39, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Support At 1,900 B, article seems sufficiently developed enough to post at this point. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 00:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note: Are all those section headers really necessary? Other than that, one more support would be nice and I'm willing to post. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I have merged some sections--Wikireader41 (talk) 00:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Well the nom has been up for nearly 12 hours and nobody has opposed, but one of the supports is explicitly weak, so I'd really like one more just to be safe. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:40, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Normally I would lean towards an oppose but (a) it is a slow news week; and (b) the article is in good shape. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:42, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
That was quick! Posting HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:43, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Death of Bobbejaan Schoepen

- Notable Belgian singer dies at age 85. - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 11:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose - ordinary death of someone who was not exceptionally notable. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 13:52, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment - He can't be that 'unexceptional', when you look at how developed his English language article is and consider that this is someone who sang in Dutch and was a the height of his career 40+ years ago. He is also described as a pioneer in the opening line of his article. That makes me think he was a little more notable than you are giving him credit for, even if I haven't heard of him myself --Daviessimo (talk) 07:13, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
The state of an article is not always a good indicator of notability, after all it only takes one interested editor to write a good article. Considering his entire career pulls less than 200 news hits I am certainly not seeing anything to indicate exceptional notability. For a death to make ITN, it should, at minimum draw news coverage in a variety of countries, and I'm not seeing that either. Of the <150 stories about his death, I see only 1 written in English, for example. (I would usually except the number of stories to exceed 1000 for an exceptionally notable death.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:57, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose He probably was an exceptional person but the fact of his death, at old age, is not in my view ITN-worthy. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage in Portugal legalized

- Nom - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 08:15, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose - the "sixth country in Europe" to do so does not seem notable enough for ITN. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 13:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I'd support it. Right now, ITN includes three sporting events followed by a miniscule percentage of the world's population and one of many launches to the ISS. Savidan 20:04, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Surely this is an important as a collection of snakes burning... Savidan 00:47, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Might normally lean towards oppose due to sixth on the Continent, but the template is getting stale, so weak support. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Its a catholic country so its slightly unexpected and as the template's getting stale I'll support. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Support I would ordinarily oppose this but it is such a slow news week. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:08, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
We can't support something just because...Doing so for the sake of it doesn't quantIFY ITN articles. At any rate the Iran-Brazil-Turkey issue is big right now.Lihaas (talk) 23:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I think it does. A slow news week means the template is getting stale (as per the commenters above). When this happens we should have the discretion to lean towards putting up more marginal cases. This isn't an unworthy ITN posting, just a posting that in another week might be a more marginal case. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Another support and a blurb and I'll probably be willing to post this considering the timer has turned red twice in recent days. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support although I dislike the bare-link refs. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 00:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose the eighth country in the world and sixth in Europe doesn't seem like news. The Iran-Brazil-Turkey item is of much more importance. --PlasmaTwa2 03:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose. Sixth in Europe ... (talk) 05:22, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - those opposing on the basis of this being the sixth in Europe or eighth overall can't tell me that if the US or UK did the same thing tomorrow that they wouldn't support. Its also worth bearing in mind that Portugal is a predominantly Catholic country and thus, as with with Spain, this is more notable than is being made out --Daviessimo (talk) 07:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Facepalm Oppose If this only went up because its a slow news week, there are far better candidates on the page than this. The current blurb really does make this look insignificant, even if the Catholic angle means it isn't. MickMacNee (talk) 11:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Ignoring the merits (or lack there of) for the article, posting something because it was a slow week is a terrible idea. It was also quite unnecessary as three other stories have now gone up in the last 12 hours. In the future, I suggest everyone judge articles by their merits only. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:04, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. non-notable--DAI (Δ) 18:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
more opposes now--DAI (Δ) 18:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I pulled this is favor of the snake story because: both happened on the same day, so neither is "fresher"; the snake one has stronger support; and the support here was based largely on the perceived lack of other stories available, which is no longer the case. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:55, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong support. This is particularly notable as it is a traditionally Catholic country as noted. Not only that but Pope Benedict has recently visited. This might not sound unusual but the visit was for several days and half a million people (!) attended one Mass at "one of the most popular Christian shrines in Europe". --candlewicke 13:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Iran-Brazil-Turkey nuclear deal

As per yesterday, this article section it should be on the main page news. Its more newsworthy than the article of the Brazilian fire. I've added more to that article now and added both support/criticism to balance it out.Lihaas (talk) 23:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Can we please stop opening multiple sections for the same item? MickMacNee (talk) 11:54, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

May 17

ITN candidates for May 17

Iran nuclear agreement

bumped from below since it's not attracting any attention down there. No opinion myself, but wirth considering now an article has been improved. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:01, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Brazil and Turkey have assisted with this nuclear swap deal, 18 hours of negotiations, a trip to Azerbaijan was postponed. I don't think Wikipedia has a Brazil-Iran-Turkey relations article though. --candlewicke 04:26, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

How about updating Nuclear program of Iran instead of starting the trilateral relations page? --PFHLai (talk) 05:35, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
ExpandedLihaas (talk) 21:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support ... (talk) 03:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose posting link to Nuclear program of Iran - the update consists of 1 sentence and the article itself is way too long/badly needs split. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 13:57, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
not true, much expanded and now with sections. (some biased editor claimed non-western sources as unreliable)Lihaas (talk) 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Article is now adequate imo and this agreement seems quite significant, it would be nice if it could be posted while it's still news. I believe there's something going on with the UN Security Council which might form the basis for a sufficiently up-to-date blurb that would also mean it can go higher on the template, but I don't know the details- I wasn't listening to the news! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:45, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
~Facepalm Oppose On what planet is that section worthy of an ITN listing, yet the section directly above it was not? The IAEA hasn't even approved this deal yet. MickMacNee (talk) 11:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Since it is 1. newsworthy (the prime story in international news media along with Thailand) and 2. landmark in that a "new world order" seems to be gaining traction.Lihaas (talk) 18:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, and? That was the exact same situation for ther the section above it. Am I not saying it right? MickMacNee (talk) 00:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
You do realize that two wrongs don't make a right, don't you? Opposing something because of a (perceived) slight of something else is juvenile and unproductive.--ThaddeusB (talk) 12:24, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

New Bus for London

This is probably the only time ever that a bus has even a chance at an ITN listing, without having to have been involved in a tragic accident killing all passengers. MickMacNee (talk) 20:05, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose It's a redesign of a bus. A redesign of an iconic one, sure, but I don't think a redesigned bus can be considered globally significant enough by any standard, to warrant its inclusion onto ITN. HonouraryMix (talk) 20:40, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll support this. even though its not internationally significant by any means it does have encyclopedic value. -- Ashish-g55 20:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
support its not internationally significant as Ashishg55 says but it is an institution, an icon, at least throughout the Commonwealth (which is a large part of the world).Lihaas (talk) 20:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per HonouraryMix. SpencerT♦Nominate! 21:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I thought they'd already done this. The routemaster was withdrawn and they replaced them with those swish new bendy buses... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, at least until it enters service. Modest Genius talk 22:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Per Modest Genius ... (talk) 03:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Miss USA

Rima Fakih has been crowned first Muslim Ms USA.(Detroit Free Press)--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:31, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

we will post miss universe/world. per country pageants are not significant enough. oppose -- Ashish-g55 15:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose National component of a global competition. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 15:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose no such competitions to ITN please--DAI (Δ) 17:15, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose I think enough reasons are given above.--yousaf465' 17:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm not supporting but a Muslim Ms USA seems kind of more significant than a usual Ms USA winner (which I would of course oppose in normal circumstances).-- (talk) 18:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree with that. __meco (talk) 18:28, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment She is the first muslim to hold the title and there in lies the significance IMO. another glass ceiling bites the dust. and this I suspect is of interest to a broad audience and defies common stereotypes of Muslims. the citation from the mail has a nice pic of her in a bikini[23]. how common is it to see a muslim beauty in a bikini.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
From the link you provided - "Pageant officials said competition records were not detailed enough to confirm if she is the first Arab-American or Muslim woman to win the contest". The first Muslim Chairman of the UK Conservative Party was much more worthy of notice imho, if we are talking 'glass ceilings', and it got no notice at ITN. MickMacNee (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
well pageant officials are not confirming it since they dont keep records. multiple RSs are saying that she is the 1st muslim. I think it is a more unusual for a muslim woman to win in a major world beauty pageant than to become a politician . Benazir Bhutto & Sheikh Hasina were very successful muslim women politicians who led their countries.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm. You seem to be ignoring a rather fundemental aspect of geopolitical geography with that comparison. MickMacNee (talk) 20:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
and you are ignoring the fact that muslim women have been heads of state so baroness warsi's commendable achievement has to be seen in that light. anyway this article from CNN just about sums up the significance of this eventArab-Americans react with delight to Lebanese-American Miss USA--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
How am I ignoring it? I just gave you the exact reason why it was a poor point. Seriously, your point is like saying Barack Obama being the first black President was irrelevant because Africa has had black leaders for years. It ignores far too much to be considered remotely relevant. And the CNN article doesn't read as if history has been made with this girl's epic struggle. Quite the opposite, both the criticism and praise for this development is decidely half hearted, because it quite accurately reflects that this is not actually that big a deal given her actual personal circumnstances. MickMacNee (talk) 21:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. The competition itself is not significant enough. It is indeed made more so by the winner being the first [insert politically correct name of minority group] to win it, but still not that significant. The first Muslim cabinet minister was indeed more significant, but I don't feel even that was significant enough, mainly because she was unelected. Miss World, however, I might consider. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:52, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
actually its miss universe that should be posted (maybe miss world too). considering national winners will go to miss universe and runner-ups to miss world. while at it i think we should make it ITNR -- Ashish-g55 22:57, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Per HJ Mitchell ... (talk) 03:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Dantewada bus bombing

--DAI (Δ) 13:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Support High enough numbers to be posted. --yousaf465' 14:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Redirect to 2010 Maoist massacre in Dantewada as a continuation because it was 2010 and in DantewadaLihaas (talk) 15:32, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
It's still a seperate article actually. -- (talk) 22:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
and will remain as such until a consensus is reached for merge. Please consider adding this--DAI (Δ) 12:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Dozens are killed in India in the Naxalite first attack on a civilian bus.--DAI (Δ) 12:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Governor dies in Philippine helicopter crash‎

afp.--yousaf465' 11:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

This is fishy. Conspiracy theorists will tell you that he died at the height of the drug scandal in which was involved with. He is the treasurer of the Liberal Party, the party of soon to be president-elect Noynoy Aquino. –Howard the Duck 16:39, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Rafael Nantes is two sentences long and didn't exist before this. Additionally, he governed only 1.6M people. I doubt we'd post the death of a US mayor of a city with a similar population, so I see no reason to post this either. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 14:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Afghanistan plane crash

- Nom - 2010 Afghanistan plane crash [24] SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 10:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

support--yousaf465' 11:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment, we have duplicate articles - see Pamir Airways Flight 112, which I created 5 mins later than the above at the correct title (per naming convention for aircraft crashes) and is better developed. Mjroots (talk) 12:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Well the first is written in the present tense. I suppose I could history merge them if you want. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
NB: Please don't histmerge them. Copy and paste is preferred in such instances. Per Wikipedia:Merging_and_moving_pages#Full-content_paste_merger and Wikipedia:How_to_fix_cut-and-paste_moves#Parallel_versions. Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 12:35, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh fear. It's already done. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Ah well, it's a fairly simple edit history. I dare say no-one will be confused too badly! - Dumelow (talk) 13:54, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support Even though it is the second in ~10 days, this is an aberration, not anywhere near a normal pattern. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 15:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose for now Let's wait until we get more details, like if anyone died or if everyone survived, etc. Nutmegger (talk) 16:27, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - its very unlikely everyone survived. However, I am not opposed to waiting for more details to emerge either. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 14:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Biggest snake collection lost

(BBC) The world's biggest collection of preserved snakes has been lost. The Instituto Butantan had 80,000 snakes and 500,000 scorpions and spiders, up to 100 years old, but burnt down (fuelled by the formaldehyde). Article is reasonable but needs expansion on the fire - Dumelow (talk) 09:40, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support 90 years of research lost in an hour and a half. MickMacNee (talk) 19:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, though the article could do with some improvement - only two references at present, and they're both on the fire. Modest Genius talk 23:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - a highly notable fire, with widespread (scientific) impact. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 13:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, potentially huge impact on research.  f o x  14:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Blurb anyone? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:11, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Support A big loss for science, obviously. __meco (talk) 14:20, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Err, I thought we didn't post articles with orange-level tags? With the exception of the fire, the entire thing is completely unreferenced. Modest Genius talk 00:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I thought so too. ... (talk) 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
You are correct. The criteria state "Articles that are subject to serious issues, as indicated by 'orange'- or 'red'-level article tags, will not normally be accepted for an emboldened link." Luckily someone has added a few more refs, (including this good one) to the article and removed the template. The article has actually just dropped off the template as well - Dumelow (talk) 19:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Italy/Spain football

Are Italy and Spain the ones that people always want to add? It seems they were won recently and are reported in The New York Times. Spain is in USA Today, The Times of India, China Daily, TVNZ as well. Italy is in The Sydney Morning Herald and The Times of India Germany is mentioned in The Irish Times as well or is that good enough? Just wondering. --candlewicke 05:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

For any sport without an obvious top-level of competition in the world, let's stick with international/continental play and not mention domestic leagues on ITN, unless it's some really big news with profound significance with the story. --PFHLai (talk) 05:52, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Too much football items near each other. Incidentally, I don't think Premier League should be up the other day. ... (talk) 03:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Parliament attacked

Mortar bombs fired, people killed, says BBC. I'm not sure if there is an existing article to update or if there is new one. --candlewicke 04:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps May 2010 Mogadishu bombings? Don't forget to post a link on P:CE. --PFHLai (talk) 05:31, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Resignation of David Triesman, Baron Triesman

Eh, is that big enough? The Football Association, at least two FIFA World Cups, House of Lords, Spain, Russia, bribery, corruption? --candlewicke 03:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. I'd support when the actually announce the bid. Also, I'd note that we have three sports-related events showing now. I'd say that's enough.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Too tabloid-ish. No, thanks. Would be more supportive if the UK Foreign Secretary resigned in a story involving Spanish spies and Russian mobsters bribing Taliban terrorists in a plot to disrupt a bid to host an upcoming G8/G20 meetings, ... etc. --PFHLai (talk) 06:11, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

May 16

ITN candidates for May 16

100 dead in government attack on rebels in Darfur; Sudan opposition arrested

(BBC) The Sudanese government has taken Jebel Moon in Western Darfur from the rebel Justice and Equality Movement, killing 108 rebels and capturing 61 in the process. Jebel Moon was apparently a key rebel stronghold and its capture has made the rebels fracture into small groups. The capture happened last month but has only just been reported. Both War in Darfur and Justice and Equality Movement have improvement tags on them. I will try to update one of them tomorrow if no-one else does beforehand (any help would be appreciated).

In the same country the Islamist opposition leader, Hassan al-Turabi, his family and leading party members have been arrested by the government for alleging vote rigging in the recent elections (though he has been arrested multiple times before). His article has yet to be updated. (BBC) - Dumelow (talk) 00:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Gigantic underwater oil plumes discovered in the Gulf of Mexico

This may be a lot more disastrous than the oil slicks already spreading across the gulf. __meco (talk) 14:33, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Support - There really needs to be more focus on this event, regardless of how many times over the past month it's been posted, because it's that bad.--WaltCip (talk) 02:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Leaning toward support, if the article is adequately updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
The article has a comprehensive update at Deepwater Horizon oil spill#Spill area and also brief mention in the lede. __meco (talk) 06:54, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. It's very serious--DAI (Δ) 17:35, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Could anyone suggest a well-worded blurb? --BorgQueen (talk) 18:39, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I think it should mention the huge underwater plumes. Apart from being a big come-on its the essence of the worsening scenario. __meco (talk) 19:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Haven't got a blurb in mind, but maybe we should have one that conveys certain facts? Phrases like "estimate" and "may", I believe, aren't desirable. HonouraryMix (talk) 19:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Suggestions for improvement are welcome... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Is it possible for the blurb to say how much worse it is? Right now it seems incomplete. --PlasmaTwa2 22:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one who feels the blurb sucks? I mean, it contains two weasel words (some scientists ... may be significantly worse than initially thought). I thought on something like

  • The Deepwater Horizon Old Spill is calculated to be flowing at a rate of 25,000–80,000 barrels a day.

Fixman (talk!) 02:47, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Dominican Republic parliamentary election, 2010

Parliamentary elections in Dominican Republic - Dumelow (talk) 15:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Obviously not much going on with the article at the moment. I'll take a look around for some sources etc. later, and see if I can find a target result announcement date - Dumelow (talk) 18:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Support when results are known. --candlewicke 20:15, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Support When results are known, and a decent enough article appears. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 00:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support I've added some text on the pre-election situation and election day violence, but we'll obviously have to wait for results before putting anything up. --Mkativerata (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I have not forgotten about this. Senate results are in but they are still waiting on the lower house results. I'll try to keep an eye on the news reports - Dumelow (talk) 23:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 ICC World Twenty20

Should be fairly straightforward one this. Major international cricket tournament with participants from 4 continents --Daviessimo (talk) 16:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

The finalists are now known for the game on Sunday, so would suggest something like:
--Daviessimo (talk) 19:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. This is a WP:ITNR event (come on England!) - Dumelow (talk) 13:30, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Come on the-team-which-isn't-England!  f o x  13:32, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Support, top level of Twenty20 competition in the world. Alt blurb (usual phrasing):
Modest Genius talk 13:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
England won. Article not updated yet though - Dumelow (talk) 18:51, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
ISD (talk) 19:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Support since it is included on ITNR. --candlewicke 20:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the article is now updated as much as sensibly possible without going into an over-by-over description of the match. Probably need to get it up soon. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note:Humbug. It would be cricket! Zzzzzzz! And I was on my way to bed, but give me a minute to check everything and I'll post it! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:28, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

  • The women's event should be added to this item. The two tournaments - men and women - ran concurrently in the same manner as a tennis grand slam. -- Mattinbgn\talk 00:32, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 03:15, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Like I said on the talk page, I am happy to post the women's event but would first like to see some prose in the article. Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 08:54, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Women's article now ready YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't see the women's event as particularly significant. It certainly didn't receive similar levels of attention as other women's events we include eg. tennis. Remember, we did not post women's ice hockey at the olympics for similar reasons. Modest Genius talk 13:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the first Women's Golf Major of the season even got nominated, whereas the Men's Majors get posted. Netherless, work it in the same blurb and I can support posting this. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 16:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Monaco Grand Prix

On WP:ITNR; Mark Weber is leading in a Red Bull car at the time of writing. Modest Genius talk 13:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Aaaand Weber just won. Blurb updated. Modest Genius talk 13:56, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. WP:ITNR event, article needs finishing table completed and race section expanded/reffed - Dumelow (talk) 13:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks good to me now. Modest Genius talk 16:15, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Support as above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd have preferred some more refs in the race section but it's hardly a controversial area and I am sure it will get some more refs once it is on the main page. I'll post it in a mo - Dumelow (talk) 18:28, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose Came flying here when I saw it was up. This isn't a WP:ITNR event: if you look, it says F1, but qualifies that the only F1 events that go up are the announcements of the drivers and construction champions. This isn't either of them: it's only a single race. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

The so called Triple Crown of Motorsport events do get posted (per ITNR). We have, for as long as I can remember, posted the Monaco Grand Prix as well as the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24. Monaco is the only F1 event that does get posted, though (besides the constructors and drivers championships). Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 18:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Lol, whoops. Was about ready to swoop asking where it said that, but taking a harder look I do now see Monaco just above the general F1 criteria. Now I feel embarrassed. Obviously changing now to support. Sorry folks. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:43, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
No problem. I was going to add this pic of Webber, but he looks a bit weird at 100x100px. If someone better with images than me wants to try cropping it or whatever please go ahead. Until then I'll leave the shuttle up - Dumelow (talk) 18:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Ex-Liverpool footballer has heart attack, dies

Liverpool are an important team are they not? More here, here and here. --candlewicke 05:23, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose His death was tragic and unusual, but not particularly ITN worthy, given that he wasn't all that well known of a footballer before his death, no international caps, little play in top-flight football. --Jayron32 05:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
He played for Swansea. He left Liverpool years ago. Leaky Caldron 08:29, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong Oppose. Just no. —  Cargoking  talk  10:46, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose, he wasn't a notable Liverpool player.  f o x  13:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Strongest possible oppose, and a suggestion that you read the sources before nominating. The third sentence of the first link you provide makes it quite clear he 'failed to make a senior appearance' for Liverpool. His Wikipedia article makes it clear he was nowhere near notable enough for ITN. Modest Genius talk 13:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Ah, misleading. Is there really any harm in nominating something you know little about to seek the opinions of others? I had never heard of him. --candlewicke 20:13, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Italy fines Ryanair €3 million

Reuters BBC euronews Radio New Zealand. Notable? --candlewicke 03:36, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. It's being covered on Wikinews (where I published it) but it's not notable enough for WP- just passing news. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:37, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Mine explosion in China 21 dead

This is nominated with an updated article under 14 May and could do with some support. --candlewicke 03:54, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

May 15

ITN candidates for May 15

Mass kidnapping in Pakaistan

60 people have been kidnapped in Kurram Agency in Pakistan.(BBC), (Reuters)--Wikireader41 (talk) 12:54, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Support, somehow this is fit for ITN. --Saki talk 16:08, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Not such a big thing, they will released, after a jigra. Not special by tribal standards..--yousaf465' 17:54, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 FA Cup Final

The oldest and most well known domestic football cup competition. This year it's Princes v. Paupers or David v. Goliath, with Roman Abramovich's prima donna millionares taking on the stoney broke poor men of Portsmouth, who don't even know if their club will exist next year, having financialy imploded spectacularly, going from shock FA Cup winners just two years ago, to this year becoming the first Premier League team to call in the administrators. MickMacNee (talk) 12:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Neutral. Unquestionably the most notable domestic knockout competition in the world, but we already have quite a lot of football items going up and it is after all a domestic competition. Modest Genius talk 13:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh and a blurb that better fits our usual phrasing:
Modest Genius talk 16:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. It's the oldest association football competition in the world. Btw, if Portsmouth win, they will become the first club to win the Cup and be relegated in the same year. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 14:41, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Nope. There have been 4 previous occasions. Man City 1926, Leicester 1969, Brighton 1983, Middlesbrough 1997. Still support though. Leaky Caldron 14:48, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
  • The clubs you've pointed out didn't win the cup though. I said that if Portsmouth win they would be the first club to have won the cup and be relegated in the same season. Not that it matters now though, lol. - JuneGloom07 Talk? 16:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Fair point June - my mistake, but as you say, it didn't happen anyway. Leaky Caldron 16:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Chelsea's first double. 2 missed pens. 1st penalty missed (not saved) at Wembley and woodwork hit 5 times in 1st half. Leaky Caldron 15:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Just to be clear, we've currently got the Europa League on there. Are we now going to add the FA Cup, next week the Champions League, and after that the World Cup? Seems a bit overkill? JACOPLANE • 2010-05-15 16:07
Neutral. But I think the blurb should highlight why the FA Cup is significant (oldest, most well-known, etc) or that Chelsea achieved The Double. TFOWRpropaganda 16:08, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose This is the problem with football, we already had the Premier League, now the Europa League, then the Champions's League, and then the World Cup- four football stories in around 2 months. I just can't get behind bumping that up to five. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - I can see the rationale for the Premier League, but not the FA Cup and, as others have pointed out, we've got the Champions League still to come next week --Daviessimo (talk) 19:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Nothing here WP:ITN#Criteria that says we cannot have multiple soccer ITNs, even if the FA Cup itself is not on the preserved list, the notability & hook on this ocassion is clear - the EPL/FA cup double achieved by the winners. Leaky Caldron 19:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
But if that is the rationale then there is a good chance that tomorrow we could be posting another football item as Inter have already won the Coppa Italia and it is likely a point against Siena on Sunday will be good enough for them to win the Serie A title - thats another double in one of the big three leagues in Europe... and that's even before we get to Spain, where if Barcelona win tomorrow they will break not only the record for the highest absolute numbers of points in a La Liga season (99 points), but also the highest proportion of points won (86.8%) --Daviessimo (talk) 19:57, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I think for next year and certainly for 4 years' time, we need to pre-plan which football items go up. I would have supported this, but with the champions league a few days ago, then the Europa League, now this and the World Cup to come, that adds up to a lot of cretins getting paid obscene amounts of money to kick a ball from one end of a field to the other football items on ITN- four in two months means (taking the average stint on ITN as ~1 week) that for at least half the time, there'll be at least one football story on ITN. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Pre-planning defeats the point of In the News IMO but there is already a list here WP:Recurring_items_on_ITN#Football_.28Association.29. Leaky Caldron 20:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
This is exactly what we should be using ITNR for. But every time I oppose something based on relative numbers and it not being on ITNR, I get shouted down. Modest Genius talk 21:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose On balance, not significant enough. There is very good reason to exercise a bit of restraint in respect of football events in May lest we overload ITN with football and get accused of pro-England bias. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:54, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Pro-England bias? explain please. Leaky Caldron 20:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Having the EPL and FA Cup as ITN events. Pro-England is perhaps loose language. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as we've just had two recent Football stories, including the Premier League winner. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Support if it is the oldest association football competition in the world and if it is "unquestionably the most notable domestic knockout competition in the world". That it is English (or whatever it is) is merely coincidental. If an "oldest" type of competition can be found from some other corner of the world I might support that too. It is very old and this an encylopedia. The BBC says this "created history" and history belongs in an encyclopedia. I don't know how all these football competitions can appear on ITN and yet there might be no place for the oldest. As for others I presume Spain and the rest of them are younger then? Would that excuse work? There are of course all the immoralititties of paying these people obscene amounts of money to run around a field with a round object but there might also be something to be said for the winning team featuring a wife-cheater and a girlfriend-stealer (as the media insists on reminding me) plus one or two ball-grabbers (that article says one of today's winners passed the ball to Mr. Henry before that incident thus proving that life really isn't very fair at all - as I write this I am reminded of hearing that one of the losers that night was on the losing side in that other final a few days ago. I'm going to stop now as this is all getting very odd. Still, by all outcomes, this is a chonic overdose of bad-people-winning-syndrome). But since all that counts as opinion I suppose it doesn't really belong here. Bringing me back to support. --candlewicke 03:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Algeria earthquake

- 2 killed, 43 injured, important damage after a 5.1 magnitude earthquake in Bouira Province - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 09:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Too short --DAI (Δ) 11:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Not a particularly large or destructive earthquake, and the artile itself is barely 3 sentences long. Modest Genius talk 13:46, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Without making any judgements on the merit of the story, we can't put a three sentence article on the main page. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 18:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Resignation of Vincent Eze Ogbulafor

The chairman of the People's Democratic Party (PDP), Vincent Eze Ogbulafor, has resigned. Significant? --candlewicke 05:52, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Not really. Party chairman is not the same thing as party leader, and is a pretty technocratic role. Plus the article is very poor. Modest Genius talk 13:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose as he is neither head of state or of government, and the article is an unsourced BLP. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 00:10, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

New Zealand and South Africa "landmark apologies"

New Zealand and South Africa's rugby unions make "landmark apologies" for excluding Maori and black players from their teams during the apartheid era. It seems at least as significant as Gordon Brown's ITN apology from a few months ago. And it is a different type of sports story than the result of a final. I'm not sure which is the best article. --candlewicke 05:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I'm not sure how notable South Africa apologizing for the apartheid is anymore. --PlasmaTwa2 06:30, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - both countries have apologised profusely for this over many years, across many fields of endeavour. They've merely reaffirmed it because of the Maori centenary. Modest Genius talk 13:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
While I oppose this, this wasn't simply an re-affirmation. See [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] Nil Einne (talk) 15:34, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Tal Afar bombing

25 dead and 125 injured during a match at an association football stadium according to Aljazeera. The BBC says 10 are dead and 120 are injured. Either way it seems a lot of people to come to harm while watching sport. Is there an article yet? --candlewicke 05:38, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Stanley Cup playoffs#Eastern Conference Semi-finals

The Philadelphia Flyers defeat the Boston Bruins 4–3, becoming the third team ever to win a playoff series after trailing 3–0.[30]

A stunning comeback, and certainly noteworthy, only the third time it has ever happened in the NHL, and the fourth time in all major league north american sports. Harrias talk 01:57, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Essentially a quarter-final series. We'll post the Stanley Cup winner, but that's enough NHL, IMO. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 02:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose posting anything on the playoffs until someone wins the Stanley Cup. Impressive achievement, but really not interesting to anyone except hockey fans that will already know about it. Incidentally, comparisons with other 'major league north american sports' are totally facetious. Modest Genius talk 02:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose they are the fourth team in professional sports history to do it, which makes it more notable then that perfect game, but still. --PlasmaTwa2 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong Oppose sporting comebacks occur all the time. There was a massive turnover in the final over of Pakistan v Australia in the semi final of the T20 yesterday. No big deal. Report the final outcome in a couple of weeks. Leaky Caldron 08:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment: In each of the 3 sports' top leagues, there have been ~12,000 best of seven series. Out of those ~12,000, a 4-3 comeback after trailing 0-3 only happened 4 times, although this is the third time for the NHL. The other was the Red Sox in 2004. Never happened in the NBA. –Howard the Duck 13:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Jessica Watson

16-year-old Jessica Watson completes an unassisted solo circumnavigation of the world. [31]

Massive wall-to-wall coverage in Australia; significant coverage internationally (eg Times, Guardian. She would be the youngest ever to circumnavigate the world but there is controversy about whether she's done it properly. Putting this nom up a few hours early because I fear I'll be at work when it happens. If this gets support, the question is whether the blurb should say she is the "youngest" person to have achieved this feat. The Times says straight up that she is as a statement of fact and then later notes that the achievement might not be recognised by the World Sailing Speed Record Council. In my view that arguably means we can say she is the youngest as a fact - the Council isn't denying the achievement, it's just not recognising it. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
If there's dispute as to whether or not she properly sailed around the world, I see no reason to post this on ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 00:11, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Regardless of whether or not there is controversy, I would support this if there is confirmation by a ruling body. Unfortunately, the World Sailing Speed Record Council does not appear to recognize records set by sailors under 18 years old. Arsonal (talk) 04:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Its major news regardless of record status. For all intents and purposes, she's the youngest person to compete a solo, unassisted round the world voyage; recognition by WSSRC and that dispute is irrelevant to this discussion. –Moondyne 13:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Difficult one. A remarkable achievement, but one which does not appear to have satisfied the criteria for a record (not only age, but also distance). Weak oppose for now, though I might change my mind. Modest Genius talk 13:52, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
She is certainly in the news, but the issue of the record is a major controversy. Records for youngest are no longer recognised both in international sailing, and by other bodies such as the Guinness Book of Records. This is for the obvious reason of not wanting to encourage attempts by people far too young to do it safely. She also did not travel far enough to satisfy formal requirements for around the word. The circumference of the earth is around 40,000km. She travelled around 26,000km. Someone suggested that her trip might more accurately (albeit outrageously) be described as circumnavigating Antarctica. HiLo48 (talk) 21:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
My thoughts 24 hours after nominating this are as follows. The feat is very newsworthy and most reliable sources (eg Reuters) are saying she is the youngest to "sail around the world", staying away from the term "circumnavigate". That is ITN worthy. However, obviously there is controversy about whether her journey constituted a circumnavigation and she clearly won't be given any official records. So I think the difficulty in having a meaningful blurb that won't create (justifiable) controversy at Main Page:Errors probably outweighs the benefit of putting this on ITN. Which is a shame because I do think it is ITN worthy. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

May 14

ITN candidates for May 14


obvious support. its the last Atlantis mission! -- Ashish-g55 16:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
The last space shuttle mission is scheduled for this year. Is this it? If not, let's wait until that last lift-off. __meco (talk) 17:21, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:ITNR we post all shuttle launches, but this is even bigger because it is Atlantis' last. The last ever space shuttle will be Discovery in September. —  Cargoking  talk  17:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - it's the last mission of the Space Shuttle Atlantis, which is certainly notable. I think only four or five were built in total and two have been destroyed so I think we can list the retirement's of each of the remaining shuttles when they happen --Daviessimo (talk) 17:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, I believe there was some discussion here whether we should reconsider that the last time a shuttle went up. __meco (talk) 18:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
There was indeed, and there's ongoing discussion on the space criteria at WT:ITNR. Modest Genius talk 18:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

() (If and when it happens...) Space Shuttle Atlantis is successfully launched for the last time. Maybe? —  Cargoking  talk  17:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Weak support. Not a particularly interesting flight, but the last of this shuttle. Modest Genius talk 18:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong support, would be significant anyway, being the last flight of Atlantis makes it even more so. Suggested wording: "Space Shuttle Atlantis launches on its final mission, to deliver the Rassvet module to the International Space Station." --GW 18:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong support, Completely agree with GW above. This is the FINAL mission and is just as significant as the maiden mission. Aalox (talk) 18:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Support There is a launch photo that can be cropped as well. Arsonal (talk) 19:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I would recommend File:STS-132 launching.jpg. Since the launch has now taken place, can we get this posted now. --GW 20:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment If this is the FINAL mission, wouldn't it make more sense to highlight the landing instead of the launch ??? Hektor (talk) 20:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
We usually post the launches. I would suggest posting the landing of Endeavour's final flight as well as the launch, but in this case, the launch should do. If there isn't much news at around the time of landing, we could consider that as well. --GW 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Other comment The other question is that we still have STS-135, the next mission of Atlantis after its final mission. Hektor (talk) 21:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oh, the peanut gallery is going to love this. I can't wait to see the T:MP thread started 10 minutes after this goes up! I need a better blurb, though. Cargoking- your suggestion implies that there might be future launches that aren't successful and the lack of a destination in it makes it sound as though this was done for NASA's amusement. I'm going to stick this up now, but suggestions are welcome. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I was going to go with something almost identical to that, but it implies its the shuttle's last mission to the ISS, not its last mission full stop. I used the suggested image though (after downloading it, cropping it and re-uploading it). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
  • It is also possible to use "final scheduled mission" to allow for future launches of the orbiter (which are not yet planned. Arsonal (talk) 21:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Final scheduled mission is how NASA is calling it to get around STS-135. [32]. So modifing GW's suggested wording: "Space Shuttle Atlantis (pictured) launches on its final scheduled mission, to deliver the Rassvet module to the International Space Station." How does that work? --Aalox (talk) 23:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Addition. I did not notice this is already on In The News. I suggest changing the blurb to the above, at the very least, change the wiki link to Final Scheduled Mission as that is more notable then a successful launch.--Aalox (talk) 23:36, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
DANG! You guys are too fast! Thanks!--Aalox (talk) 23:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm just that good! ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

2010 Thai political protests

The Times Possibly time for this to make a reappearance. The government seems to be pretty keen to end it now. Apparently there have been two deaths and at least 20 wounded since last night. Article has yet to be updated - Dumelow (talk) 11:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

support. It's on all headlines. But please expand --DAI (Δ) 15:04, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks like someone has started to expand it at 2010_Thai_political_protests#14_May-present_crisis - Dumelow (talk) 16:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm indecisive on this one. It does appear the government has shifted to a more hardline approach, but this also means we may expect another incident which makes ITN on its own accord. __meco (talk) 17:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - This is an ongoing situation so I think we can list this on the main page again. Its easy enough to update the blurb if things change while its on the main page --Daviessimo (talk) 17:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
(Sky News) 17 dead and 161 killed overnight. How do we feel about: "At least 17 people are killed and 161 injured as Thai government forces clash with red shirt protesters". Though there is plenty of scope for improvement in that - Dumelow (talk) 11:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Posted. Thue | talk 14:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. I suggest the blurb also mentions the 'live fire zone' which has been designated. Modest Genius talk 13:53, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Mine explosion in China 21 dead

Will post link as soon as I get it.--yousaf465' 02:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Here are the links Google news. --yousaf465' 05:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, done. The incident has led to firings and suspensions while the mine owner has disappeared so this seems good enough for the Main Page. At least 21 people are killed and five are wounded in an outburst at a colliery in Puding County, Anshun, Guizhou. --candlewicke 04:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Question: does a month go by without a major industrial accident in China? Modest Genius talk 13:54, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Is that a question or a statement ;) --yousaf465' 17:57, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
It has a question mark at the end, seems to qualify according to our article on questions :p Modest Genius talk 22:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, to answer the question, possibly... no. But people get blown up in Iraq and shot in the United States quite regularly yet the most serious of such incidents feature on ITN. In this case (besides the death, injury and general misery) several important officials have been fired or suspended and the mine owner has gone missing. There is also significant evidence of international coverage as displayed in the article. Aljazeera, BBC, euronews, Press TV and so on. --candlewicke 01:13, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Not sure if this qualifies as "the most serious of such incidents", esp. with the more serious 2010 Wangjialing coal mine flood only a few weeks ago and still fresh on one's (at least my) memory. --PFHLai (talk) 06:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

New British government includes first Muslim woman minister of Pakistan origin

[33] --Saki talk 07:28, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose local news to UK - plus there's been lots of election coverage already. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Local news with no significance other than trivial even in UK. Forget rest of the world. --GPPande 07:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose not even significant enough for its own story in the UK, let alone ITN. Modest Genius talk 11:06, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose unelected, token gesture. Barely 20 seconds of coverage on BBC News. Leaky Caldron 11:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Sayeeda Warsi is one of the few senior tories I have a shred or respect for, but this isn't that significant even in the UK. As a side note, I don't think she is even the first minister of Pakistani origin. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
She's the first cabinet minister of Pakistani origin, but I agree its entirely trivial information --Daviessimo (talk) 17:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Trivial. Great PR, but ultimately trivial.--WaltCip (talk) 15:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

May 13

ITN candidates for May 13

Namadi Sambo

President Goodluck Jonathan nominates Namadi Sambo to serve as Nigeria's vice president. I'm nominating this to see where the discussion goes. Again, apologies about being unable to sign - I have no time right today to work out what is going on but I'll check tomorrow. ;)

  • Hmm. So their campaign ticket is 'Goodluck Sambo'? :o MickMacNee (talk) 21:29, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Almost as good as the leaders of China, Who and When. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If he wins.
But strong support a new chief of state (or vice decision) is big. and the powder-keg taht is Nigeria means this sets some solid precedence, Goodluck will now run again it seems.Lihaas (talk) 23:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
The article isn't very good, and I can't imagine there's much interest among the vast majority of our readers in the vice-president of any African country, no matter how populous. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Do we only cater for the "vast majority"? --candlewicke 05:09, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Goodluck becoming president is significant. His vice president is less so. And the mere nomination of his vice president is less still. Modest Genius talk 23:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Modest Genius encapsulates my views well.--Mkativerata (talk) 00:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Aban Pearl

An offshore drilling rig Aban Pearl sank on the Caribbean Sea.

Maybe not the major mainstream news, but in the light of the Deepwater Horizon accident this is definitely newsworthy coincident. Beagel (talk) 18:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose A coincidence is all it is, I would rather an updated item about the original disaster was posted than this. For the record: "Venezuelan energy officials said that the sunken natural gas rig posed no environment threat and that no workers had died". [34] Coincidence aside, I cannot even see how the rig is notable enough for an article even. MickMacNee (talk) 19:26, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Note. I've put it up for Afd here. MickMacNee (talk)
  • Support. Source It is "India's largest offshore drilling and oil field services provider", it is supposed to have "suffered a major setback", it was "one of Aban’s biggest money spinning rig earning $358,000 dollars or about a crore and a half rupees a day" and "it is one of the biggest revenue generators". And now I want to sign but I can't seem to find how this is done...
  • Oppose On balance, not signficant enough. Candlewicke: you seem to be having the same irritating problems with the sign button as me. I just reverted back to the old formatting by clicking "take me back". --Mkativerata (talk) 20:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Type 4 tildes the old-fashioned way! Or change back. Or both. I think that's useful for the article and may just save it from deletion but it's not significant enough for ITN, thus I oppose. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose since there's no widespread effect, nor major loss of life. I wasn't aware there was ever a method of signing OTHER than typing four tildes! Modest Genius talk 00:14, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

May 12

ITN candidates for May 12

UEFA Europa League

Atlético Madrid defeats Fulham F.C., becoming the first winner of the UEFA Europa League, the succeedor of the UEFA Cup.

For me it's good to mention it in the template.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:29, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Moved from FE:

  • The final of the 2009–10 UEFA Europa League takes place in Hamburg. Not as straight forward as the Champions League, but given that football is without doubt the biggest sport in Europe, I feel there is a strong argument for this to go up. The total population of the nations from which there are participant clubs is half a billion and even though it is the second highest level of competition in Europe it is still a huge deal. Probably a good compromise if the winners of Serie A, La Liga and the Premier League aren't listed --Daviessimo (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Support. This seems to make sense. The four semi-final teams are from several countries and seem to have good histories: "one of the most successful in Spanish League history" + "one of (Germany's) oldest, most well known, and best performing clubs, with the unique distinction of having played continuously in top-flight German football since the end of World War I; the team has never been relegated from any top-flight league and is the only team that has always played in the 1. Bundesliga since its foundation in 1963, a record in Germany" + a club with more trophies than any other English club and an English record number of European Cups + London's oldest professional club (and they seem to have already eliminated the defending champions). --candlewicke 00:09, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Heh, with the English teams eliminated at the Champions League, this is the next best thing, eh?
P.S.: I don't think the defending champs of this tournament would really want to "defend" their championship. –Howard the Duck 07:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
So basically it's the NIT? ~DC Talk To Me 08:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Hey, this NIT has plenty of article views. –Howard the Duck 08:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Or maybe its a test to see how many of those who freely supported the inclusion of the NCAA finals, as the second level of basketball in the US, will be openly hypocritical and oppose this. Who knows? -Daviessimo (talk) 09:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
So is this some kind of a game or something? –Howard the Duck 09:13, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
No that was a joke. Come on Howard! I nominated this last year and have always felt it should be included given how big a deal football is within Europe. However, its worth pointing out that last year this was opposed on the basis that the NCAA finals were not included. This years the precedent has been changed... but who knows... my experience is wiki editors can often be a fickle bunch (and yes even I fall under that banner - fickleness is a wiki disease). --Daviessimo (talk) 09:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
The NCAA made it because Butler made it. Last year two Ukrainian clubs made it to the semifinals and even that wasn't posted. The NCAA blurb was, like all ITN discussions not in WP:ITNR, not stare decisis. –Howard the Duck 09:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
(un-indent) Who says it is? My point is that one of the fundamental outcomes of including NCAA was the that rules applied in the past that only the top level of sport in a given area should be included were false. My nomination, as with last year, is that within football in Europe, the Europa League (or UEFA Cup as was known) is a major international competition second only to the Champions League as a UEFA Competition. I feel that last year, the fact that Shakhtar Donetsk became the first Ukrainian side to win should have been included, but other users (and I'm sure you will have had something to say ;) were opposed on the basis that a) it was the second level UEFA competition in Europe b) the NCAA finals had not been previously posted. If you have a valid opposition then make that clear and explain why, rather than throwing out semi cryptic sarcastic comments. --Daviessimo (talk) 09:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Eh... I did support (sorta) the addition of the 2009 UEFA Cup Final.
And I dunno where the top-level "pseudo"-rules came from. And with the awesome record by the four clubs remaining as told by Candlewicke, I don't think we'd see any type of "Butler" (near) upset this year. –Howard the Duck
Yes, but your rationale in that instance (there had been loads of Rugby blurbs before so this could 'balance' it), is exactly the type of stare decisis you've just accused me of. The UEFA cup may not have the underdog factor (although if Fulham make the final it would certainly be a story given that they have never won a top level competition), however it has a far higher level of international interest. Clubs from over 40 countries are eligible. My argument is, we have established that second level competitions can be included, although they should be analysed on a case by case basis. In this instance there is a huge amount of international interest and a massive target audience and I feel that these factors combined with the fact that football is the most popular sport on the planet warrant inclusion --Daviessimo (talk) 09:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
As I have said earlier, not everyone wants to win this: the defending champion may have been more thrilled playing at the Champions League qualifying than repeating as champions, although clubs from weaker countries may want to win, clubs from stronger nations don't. I even read that English clubs don't care what happens here, although that may change with Fulham (which hasn't won anything), and Liverpool (their only chance for a silverware this season).
And I really don't buy that international interest argument since there are 40 nations competing, considering that Europe per se is split into 40+ nations and the mainland of North America (which has a larger land area than all of Europe) only has 10 countries. If we're into that, then the ASEAN Basketball League (6 countries) has a "higher" international interest than the National Basketball Association (USA + Toronto). –Howard the Duck 09:58, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Where have you got this idea that Shakhtar didn't want to defend their title. You can't choose what competition you play in. Shakhtar finished second in their league and had an opportunity to qualify for the Champions League. You not asked, what would you rather do, have a shot at qualifying for the Champions League or enter the Europe League, you're given the chance to qualify anyway. Shakhtar had to attempt to qualify, but they lost meaning that the entered the Europa League. They then lost in the last 32 game against Fulham and were simply knocked out of the competition. They didn't withdraw because they didn't want to defend their title or whatever you think they did.
As for how big it is, where have you got the idea that only little clubs like it. Are you really saying that clubs such as Liverpool, Juventus, Valencia, Benfica and Roma etc are small clubs, because all of them played in this years tournament. Of course teams want to qualify and win the Champions League because it is the top level of football in Europe, but that doesn't mean that they would inherently turn down winning the Europa. The way football works is that if you finish in the top 2 or 3 spaces in you're league you qualify for the champions league (top four in England, Spain and Italy) and if you finish 4th or 5th (5th or 6th in Eng, Ita and Spa) you qualify for the Europa League. All the clubs they reach the latter stages are still big clubs with massive global fan bases and are not little teams. --Daviessimo (talk) 10:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
You can choose a competition -- if you play well. Shakhtar would've been more thrilled to play in the Champions League but they crashed out so they played. They're a small club so they'll take it. Bigger clubs don't take it seriously, unless it is their chance for silverware, which is the case for Liverpool. I didn't say all teams that competed here are small clubs: I said small clubs are more thrilled to play in the "main" (Champions League) competition than this one. While the bigger clubs don't really care that much. It's like the FA Cup and the League Cup. –Howard the Duck 10:27, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry Howard, but you have a distinct lack of knowledge of football if you think Shakhtar chose which competition to play in or if you think that big clubs that are participating within it, do not care. I would also state that there are no 'small clubs' that play in either UEFA competition. This is not like the FA cup or any other domestic competition were any team is eligible to enter. In order to play in either the Champions League or Europa League you have to have finished as one of the top 5 clubs in you country (for smaller nations this if often the top 2 or 3) or you must have won your nation's domestic cup competition. Also your assertion that the 'biggest' clubs in Europe don't care about the UEFA cup is a fallacy, because why would you care about a competition that you are not participating in. What is important is that the 80 or so clubs that do enter the competition care about it, which is very much the case. Fundamentally your argument seems to be based around you inside knowledge of the goings on inside Shakhtar and I have to ask where are you getting this information from. Do you know Mircea Lucescu personally? --Daviessimo (talk) 08:35, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
As what I've said earlier, Shakhtar could've chose, and I'd bet it'll be the Champions League. what competition they'd end up playing by playing well in their domestic league. Since they did not qualify in the Champions League, they were just happy to receive Europa Cup berths. I know how the system works, such as Linfield being in the Champions League (qualification) since time immemorial. You don't have to post a lengthy explanation for that. Everyone knows that all teams from all European leagues would kill for a place in the Champions League. –Howard the Duck 16:20, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
But that is obvious!. Of course teams want to qualify for the Champions League, because by doing so it means they must have finished higher in the league. No team is ever going to prefer finishing fifth and qualify for the Europa rather than finishing fourth and qualifying for the Champions League. But that doesn't mean the Europa is a nothing competition. It just means it is the second tier of UEFA sanction football --Daviessimo (talk) 16:59, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Let's put it this way: I dunno about the other 3, but Liverpool is on track in losing the Premier League. If they win the Europa League, it'll be their only piece of silverware this season. If they hold an open top bus parade around town it means winning this competition is a big thing; if no, then it probably doesn't deserve an ITN blurb. –Howard the Duck 05:31, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Well if you don't know about the other three clubs, why are you commenting as if you are an expert on football so much? Also since when did having a victory parade become a rational reason for including a sporting items? Half the team sports listed at ITNR would not be included if we followed that odd logic. The simple fact is that the UEFA cup is the second tier of UEFA sanctioned football, has participants from almost 50 countries that have a combined population of almost twice that of the US, is a top level competition in the world's most popular sport and is watched by tens of millions of people across the globe. I have nominated it here as a compromise because, despite being suggested before, it is highly unlikely we will list the league winners of the three biggest football leagues in the world (Premier League, Serie A and La Liga) and it seems very odd that in what is the very centre of the world's most popular sport we only have one ITN listing per year, whilst even Rugby has two! --Daviessimo (talk) 07:36, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Actually I could've looked at the articles to see if the other three teams have a chance of winning silverware other than the UEFA Cup. I know for a fact that Liverpool are facing an uphill battle in the Premier League.
As for victory parades, I thought it was standard fare in Western nations? North American big 4 leagues do it, Liverpool and Barca did it when they won the Champions League, Italy won it when they won the World Cup, Munster did it when they won the H-Cup.
P.S. I have no problem in having three separate blurbs on those three leagues (I've even supported adding the FA Cup on even-not-so-special-situations, but that doesn't mean we should add all cup competitions. For example, the Italian Cup has had dismal attendance.); I'm skeptical on this one. As you've said it, it's second-tier. Just as people who opposed the NBA since it is "a domestic league" with the reasoning that "a domestic league is a domestic league", same with this one: "second tier is second tier".
I'm not entirely convinced that "has participants from almost 50 countries that have a combined population of almost twice that of the US, is a top level competition in the world's most popular sport and is watched by tens of millions of people across the globe" argument. In the final, there are only two teams competing, for the maximum of two countries, with other countries watching when they have players competing (for example South Koreans watched Manchester United played in the UEFA CL final). Not even majority of the football fans in that country might watch it. For example, when Manchester United won their first Champions League, most Leeds United fans didn't watch.
And what's the problem with "my football credentials"? We people discussed the NCAA item and nobody asked about each other's NCAA basketball credentials. I don't think those who opposed the NCAA basketball championship have probably seen a college basketball game in its entirety and know what is happening. –Howard the Duck 08:16, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, you're the one who said "Let's put it this way: I dunno about the other 3". I was simply commenting that is was a very odd thing to say when you are attempting to argue the ins and outs of European football, as it is you yourself admitting a lack of knowledge. You were also the one who seemed for some reason to believe Shahktar Donetsk chose what competition they played in, an assumption I can only assume was based on you not understanding the way teams qualify for European tournaments (or why else would you think a team would ever rather finish second and qualify for the UEFA cup rather than finish 1st and qualify for the Champions League).
Secondly, you state that a 'second tier competition is a second tier competition'... well is that case for all sports except those in the US? The NCAA basketball is not the top level of basketball in the US, yet that got included, or are you going to rebut this with your oft played Stare decisis response. Funny how that only pops up with items you are opposed to and not ones you support. The simple fact is you can oppose an item for any reason you want, but when a precedent has been set that allows a second tier competition to be posted, simply responding I oppose because it is a second tier competition is inherently flawed. Either that or you are openly admitting you are biased. I opposed the NCAA item until someone could show there was enough international interest in the competition, which was proven, so I ultimately had no problem with its inclusion on ITN. I can prove plenty of non-European interest in the UEFA cup, or does the 'international interest' rule only apply to items that you support?
At the end of the day, you and I can argue till we are black and blue, but it is ultimately pointless so its better to just let other people have a say when the time comes --Daviessimo (talk) 09:06, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support: it's a little bit of bias I'll grant you, but Fulham finished this season in the bottom half, and very nearly caused a huge huge upset.  f o x  12:06, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support notable to tens of millions of people. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • There is nothing about what happened in the match. (talk) 12:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I am willing to support but the article needs some prose about the final first. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 13:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong Support. The competition is stronger than defuct Uefa Cup, then makes notability. - SiMioN.EuGeN (talk) 19:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. NCAA and 2nd v 3rd in boxing goes up, for simply being popular, yet this does not? Sorry, does not compute. MickMacNee (talk) 19:29, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
The support seems to be here but I wouldn't want to see it posted without at least some text in the match section, at the moment it is entirely statistics - Dumelow (talk) 19:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Ditto- we have the support but lack the update. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:06, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll make an update now --Daviessimo (talk) 20:09, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
I've made an update at 2010_UEFA_Europa_League_Final#Summary. Something like "In association football, Atlético Madrid defeat Fulham F.C. to become the first winners of the UEFA Europa League" should be ok. --Daviessimo (talk) 21:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Posted, thanks for the update - Dumelow (talk) 21:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose The second best competition for a sport from only one continent? This would be equivalent to posting the results of the NIT for college basketball. I'm all for more stories on the the front page but this is just far too small. (talk) 22:14, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
How can this go on? The Asian/African CHAMPIONS LEAGUE winners don't and a 3rd rate (2nd rate) tournament gets on here becasue its UEFA? Even the Copa Libertores doesnt get there?Lihaas (talk) 23:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
The Asian Champions League is very poor. Adelaide United came second once and the other Australian teams in it, most of their players who ever played in Europe played in third-flight football. The Europa League is mostly the 4th-6th best teams in each country, roughly. Most of the ACL players would struggle in the worst 2nd flight teams and some can't even get a game in a 3rd fligth team YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. Remember this is a consolation tournament for those teams which weren't good enough for the Champions League. The only people who pay any attention to the tournament are those who support teams in it (at least until the final or maybe semis). Nowhere near significant enough. Modest Genius talk 00:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Tournament is insufficiently significant. The best teams in Europe are excluded from it. No more needs to be said.--Mkativerata (talk) 00:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment People seriously need to get some perspective here. UEFA is the biggest continental football association in the world, not just by a mile, but by a galaxy. The Champions League is the biggest continental club competition similarly. These are international club tournaments of top level professional teams playing the almost universal European national sport (I think Albania is still mad for handball). UEFA encompasses fifty three nations. It isn't a college tournament, and it isn't a 'World Series'. UEFA could create a third tier, and even a fourth tier tournament, and the international interest in, and coverage of, those tournaments would still be bigger than some of the stuff that regularly sails onto the front page for no other reason than technically, it is the top level of some sport, which doesn't even have to be that popular. The Europa League passes every single other criteria for 'international significance' that has ever been used to justify a sporting item. It was expanded from the UEFA Cup into the Europa League format, and given a title more like their most famous competition, precisely because broadcasters can't get enough of it. It would be quicker to list the number of non-European countries that did not broadcast it, than those that did. [35]. Failing to get into the Champions League and having to settle for the Europa league, is like failing to score with Gwyneth Paltrow and ending up with Kiera Knightly. Some of the stuff that does make ITN is frankly, more like having to accept Mylee Cyrus or nothing. If being a second tier tournament (I cannot even call it a 'consolation' tournament without laughing at the absurdity) is the only reason it cannot go up, then pretty obviously, it's not the nomination that is in error. MickMacNee (talk) 02:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
The tournament is full of second rate teams that couldn't cut it in a big boys league. Nothing else needs to be said. The appeal is limited to a fringe group of people. It should not be included on the front page. (talk) 02:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose: Is there a limit on number of soccer/football tournaments which make it to ITN? I think every other tournament is posted on ITN. On other hand many good tournaments from other games such as cricket have to face the axe. I agree this is league of second rate teams and should be pulled down from front page. --GPPande 07:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment: Football is the most popular sport in the world, so naturally it should have the most postings. The inclusion or exclusion of other items should have no bearing on the inclusion or exclusion of this item. I am getting really tired of people essentially saying "a sport tournament I supported didn't make it, so most other sport tournaments shouldn't be featured either." (The converse argument - "I sport I don't support made it, so every other sport should too." is equally annoying.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
    Also, one shouldn't read much into the late opposition after the posting - this seems to happen for nearly every sport, and sometime other stories too. It likely doesn't reflect the true balance of opinion because people who are unhappy with a decision are many times more likely to show up after the fact to complain than people who are happy about it are likely to show up to say "I agree". --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I would also add that it is ridiculous to assert that the teams playing in this competition are second rate teams. Generally speaking, the teams that enter this competition at the beginning of the season finish between 4th and 6th in Spain, Italy and England, 3rd or 4th in Germany and France and 2nd or 3rd from most other countries. Next season big clubs such as Lyon, PSV, Liverpool, Man City, Porto, Galatasaray and Werder Bremen will be playing in the competition and anyone who thinks they are nothing clubs has no idea what they are talking about. Just because the top ten biggest clubs in the whole of Europe are not in the competition shouldn't detract from the fact that it is still a big deal in footballing terms --Daviessimo (talk) 17:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Did it ever occur to you that the reason the clubs you describe as "big" are in this competition because they are second rate and are not good enough to qualify for the Champions League. The American NIT has big teams as well but the competition pales in comparison to the NCAA. To include Mickey Mouse Cups and tournaments cheapens the significance of the important teams. (talk) 20:40, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry but this ridiculous comparison of the Europa League (an international, professional football league) to the National Invitation Tournament (an amateur college basketball league in America) is quite frankly astounding. I mean there is just no comparison and the attempts to do are, well, unbelievable. To again use the example of the (likely) teams in next seasons competition, you have Porto (Champions League winners in 2004, with 24 Portuguese League titles), Liverpool (Champions League winners in 2005, runners up in 2007), and probably Lyon (who've won the French League title a record 7 times in a row between 2002 and 2008 and got to the semi finals of this seasons Champions League). At the end of the day I'm still find it amazing that a team that ranks 5th of 92 professional teams in England or 3rd of 50+ in Germany is considered to be a 'second rate' team. I mean the players are so second rate that we won't be seeing a single player who played in the Europa League this season, appearing in this year's world cup... --Daviessimo (talk) 22:28, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Hey, it's not that bad. Olimpio Cipriano, the best Angolan basketball player, can't even crack the Euroleague, and that's second rate, and he regularly competes in the World Championships and the Olympics. –Howard the Duck 13:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the NIT/Europa League comparison is that out of whack. The Europa league is definitely a bigger deal but both are consolation tournaments which the big teams don't compete in. As far as this 'second rate' comment, I would certainly rate Fulham as a second rate European side. It's pretty much inconceivable that they would win the Champions League or even qualify for it. Liverpool and A. Madrid are bigger teams of course. Overall, FWIW I personally oppose this posting as there are more prestigious football competitions.-- (talk) 14:41, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
(unindent) - Well by that argument are we to presume that teams such as APOEL Nicosia, FC Unirea Urziceni or Debrecen are subsequently first tier teams just because they participate in the Champions League? The simple fact is that in football in Europe the best clubs are concentrated in a handful of leagues, but because the Champions League is for champions, you end up with smaller teams from smaller countries competing in the CL and big teams from bigger countries competing in the Europa League. Admittedly the Europa League is not the same competition is was back in the 70s and 80s, but the assertion that there is a definitive class break between teams in the two competition is completely false because the rules are inherently designed to make sure teams from smaller leagues can still have their day with the big boys. --Daviessimo (talk) 19:09, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
No, making the Champions League definitely doesn't mean they're 'first class' teams, but I think the old G-14 is an indicator of which teams are 'first-class' Eurpean teams (though I'd say they're have been some power shifts since then.) Another way to look at it is the teams that make the last 16 of the Champions League, which excludes the clubs mentioned above, and by definition excludes any clubs in the Europa League. --Johnsemlak (talk) 04:10, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Merkel's loss of majority

According to The Times, Merkel has lost her majority. I nominated earlier when it was less certain but it is buried somewhere below so I'll move it up. --candlewicke 20:35, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Moved from 10 May.
Merkel Cabinet II

Chancellor Angela Merkel's ruling coalition was seriously weakened last night after her party suffered a humiliating defeat in a key regional state election which was certain to deprive her government of its crucial working majority in Germany's upper house of parliament. If confirmed is this notable enough? I think there might have been a similar discussion about the US parliament losing some sort of majority but I can't remember if it was posted or if I am mistaking it for something else. North Rhine-Westphalia is Germany's most populous and most economically powerful state and this is Merkel's worst defeat if that helps. International coverage includes Aljazeera, BBC, The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, IOL, Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, RTÉ, The Times, Vancouver Sun, Xinhua. --candlewicke 04:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

If my A-level in politics serves me (it was a while ago and my knowledge of German politics is slim), then there'd have to be an election if she actually lost her majority, which would be a much better item for ITN. Let's see where this goes, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
No, Candlewicke is right. The German "upper house" (Bundesrat) is not directly elected, but composed of the regional governments - and with the government of North-Rhine Westfalia due to change following its election defeat, Merkel's coalition indeed loses its majority there (while retaining their majority in the Bundestag). It's definitely top news in Germany, don't know about international notability though. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 17:25, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Government of a large country like Germany losing its majority in the upper house of a legislature is ITN worthy. This is on a par with Scott Brown winning Massachusetts, which was on ITN. Support for this is conditional on reliable sources drawing a direct link between the outcome of the regional election and the loss of the upper house majority. --Mkativerata (talk) 01:08, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - no change at the top level of government. Modest Genius talk 21:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:33, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Firstly, even if the US Democrats lost their senate majority, I do not think it would, or should, justify an ITN post. Combined with the fact that German government seems to operate as a perma-coallition, I cannot see the wow factor of this event at all, outside of national interest. It is one of those nominations that would seem to require a blurb of nearly five lines to explain to the average non-German reader why it is internationally significant. MickMacNee (talk) 19:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

State of emergency

The Egyptian parliament has voted to extend the country's "state of emergency" for a further two years. (Al Jazeera) (BBC) (The Star) Is there an article on the state of emergency or anything that could be used for this? --candlewicke 20:29, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Neutral They will continue to do so until US stops mentoring the dictator, or else a Chief Justice is removed forcefully, thus initiating a similar movement to Lawyers' Movement. --yousaf465' 02:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Libya plane crash 'kills all 105 on board'

105 reported dead. --yousaf465' 07:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Red Cross confirms 'second jail' at Bagram, Afghanistan

Knopffabrik (talk) 14:18, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. nothing new or unusual about US running Black sites--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:31, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. This is serious enough if confirmed. There is nothing new or unusual about planes crashing or people dying in Iraq either but that doesn't stop them being in the ITN section at this moment. It is also reported here and this is something from Canada. Strangely enough, the US media does not seem to be reporting what the Red Cross has said. --candlewicke 20:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. On balance, insufficiently significant. The Red Cross is merely confirming something that the US isn't denying, and there's no firm claim that there is anything significantly problematic about the prison. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:33, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Support I think this is really significant, US is still insisting that they only have one black prison in Afghanistan.--yousaf465' 02:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

May 11

ITN candidates for May 11

Pakistan's ambassador to Iran, attacked

Pakistani ambassador attacked, injured in Iran.--yousaf465' 05:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Doesn't seem to be a big deal as far as I can see. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 05:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Obama nominates Elena Kagan to Supreme Court

Really? Did no one even mention this while I was gone? OK, so it's not a new prime minister, but it was the top story in just about the entire U.S. national media today (see Today's Front Pages) and the article received 420,800 hits yesterday. True, she hasn't been confirmed by the Senate yet, but confirmation of a Democratic president's nominee by a Democratic Senate is all but assured.

All the same arguments from the Sotomayor discussion last year apply:

  • There are only nine justices, and they serve as long as they want, meaning Kagan could serve until mid-century.
  • The U.S. Supreme Court is extremely powerful and sets many of the most-important policies in the country, such as legalizing abortion, desegregating schools, establishing criminal suspects' rights, setting parameters on the use of the death penalty, allowing corporations to fund political ads, deciding the 2000 presidential election, etc.
  • Unlike in some other countries where the high court doesn't get much notice, there is a huge interest in Supreme Court membership among the politically engaged population in the U.S.
  • There is talk that by replacing the reliably liberal Justice Stevens, Kagan could tilt the ideological balance of the court now or in the future.

Obviously, this entry should go below the more timely entry on Cameron. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:12, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Wait - There is absolutely no doubt that she will become the next justice, but even then, we should hold off until her confirmation is official, so as to prevent redundancy.--WaltCip (talk) 23:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. I'm not convinced the appointment of judges is important enough (regardless of the court), let alone mere nomination. Important judgements of the US Supreme Court can be nominated as and when they occur - who serves on that particular bench is not intrinsically notable enough for ITN. Modest Genius talk 00:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
If the appointment of judges is "not important," why was it on the front page of every national U.S. newspaper and the lead story on all of the national TV news programs? I'm loathe to make this a personal confrontation, but do you think you know more about the U.S. judicial system than the entire U.S. media? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
So was the Tiger Woods scandal. Big deal. (talk) 04:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Appointment of judges to Pakistani Supreme Court was listed on frontpage of every newspaper here, should we also post that ? --yousaf465' 05:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
50% of our readers don't come from Pakistan. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 05:51, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
We will be accused of systematic bias then, I don't we should post this either. I'm not opposing bcz Pakistani appointments are not posted or vice versa, I opposing bcz it only relates to a single country it might be significant for U.S but not Internationally from where most are readers belong to. --yousaf465' 06:58, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Ummm, most of our readers (more than 50%) come from the US. ~DC Talk To Me 07:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
You mean less than 50% are from the rest of the world ? any stats for that ? --yousaf465' 07:31, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
this. ~DC Talk To Me 07:34, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks that are interesting stats, 52.9% are from U.S, but should this affect are decisions ? --yousaf465' 08:59, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Of course the US media will be interested in domestic US politics. That doesn't mean ITN should be. ITN should strive to be international, beyond (perhaps despite) the readership statistics. Modest Genius talk 21:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I second that, ITN ≠ US media. So we should try to remain "International".--yousaf465' 07:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. US judges should be a special case. Their appointments do get coverage in the international media, and for that reason they are internationally significant. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:05, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose despite the nominators claim, the confirmation is far from assured. A lot can, and often does, happen between nomination and voting. At least 2 of the last 10 nominees have withdrawn after issues emerged. Additionally, there is small chance of a filibuster.

More importantly though is the fact that ITN should not be equated with level of interest, but rather level of international impact. Thus the fact that the nomination gets more media coverage than the confirmation is irrelevant. The change of the court's makeup (i.e. the actual confirmation) is the event that causes a real impact. The nomination just shows a potential shift, not the actual shift. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:59, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. I think this topic is "in the news" now and will be "old news" when Kagan is confirmed. Plus, now is the time people are likely to be looking for information on who this previously obscure person is, so I think it would be helpful to have a link on the main page (would have been better yesterday). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
The purpose of the template isn't to provide a one click link for people who are already looking for a topic. It's not exactly hard to type in "Elena Kagan". The purpose of the template is to inform people of news with impact. For non-US readers - the ones who would actually benefit from the link - the news that matters is a confirmation. If the purpose of ITN was to simply report every story that makes headlines, it would list completely different stories than it does. By your logic, we shouldn't report the results of (most) elections since the outcome pretty much decided in advance, but instead report when a public opinion poll shows a clear favorite. After all, polls are accurate a lot more often than 80%. --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
And if we were to use your logic, we wouldn't put up the results of a US presidential election until the Electoral College voting took place weeks later, nor would we put up the major-party nominations. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
The electoral college is, in all reality, symbolic in modern society (and incidentally isn't the final determiner of the election result anyway). A supreme court nominee's confirmation is not. If it were Robert Bork and Harriet Miers would be on the court right now. --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment. I won't opine because I'll probably end up being the one to post if there's consensus, but if this goes up, we should agree that the confirmation itself (or her taking office) should not go up. I have the article on my watchlist because of an RfPP request the other day and from the amount of editing going on, I'm hoping that's a lot of people updating the article! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm OK with not putting up the confirmation if we post the nomination. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:06, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I have a feeling that, if we put this up, come confirmation there are going to be people arguing for it anyways. --PlasmaTwa2 04:11, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Although her nomination might be significant in the U.S, but I don't think it hold any international significance. Justices are appointed to the highest courts all over the world and we can't start a dog race. Although if posted we might see more ITN-biased complains. --yousaf465' 05:35, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, its only really significant to the US, possibly the confirmation is worth posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:13, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose She's only been nominated. Wait until she is confirmed, if that happens. HonouraryMix (talk) 10:08, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose--Let's wait at least for the confirmation. We can't post every item that is on the front pages of all US newspapers, though this certainly is big news. I'd also say that the US supreme court, and it's judges, is considered more important in the US and other courts in their own countries, so I might support the confirmation but not the nomination.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:13, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Gordon Brown resigns as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

Gordon Brown resigns as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, leaving the way clear for David Cameron to become the next Prime Minister under a coalition between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. Mjroots (talk) 18:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

  • He doesn't 'leave the way clear'. He is right now entering Buckingham Palace to tell the Queen he is resigning, and will "recommend she appoint the Leader of The Opposition" as the next Prime Minister, which is of course, Cameron. We will have a new Prime Minister in the next hour it seems. MickMacNee (talk) 18:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong support, let's post this quickly. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 18:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Pyrrhus16 18:34, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose I think we should put up when the new Prime Minister is appointed (i.e. David Cameron), rather than announce the resignation of the incumbent. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
    They are choreographed to be simultaneous events. Cameron will be PM before the day is out. Otherwise, who runs the country in the interim? The Queen? MickMacNee (talk) 18:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Haha, that'd be amusing. I agree - Brown wouldn't have resigned if he didn't know Cameron was ready to take over. Regardless, I say wait until he's appointed. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:43, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Technically, the answer is yes. Mjroots (talk) 18:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Conditional support post when David Cameron becomes PM. Not sure about the notability for Brown's resignation, as it kind of comes with the process of having a "new" prime minister. Anyone who doesn't know about British politics (the majority of our readers) might get the idea that Gordon Brown is a Conservative. Jolly Ω Janner 18:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Concur Put up when Cameron becomes PM: Suggested blurb: "After agreeing a deal with the Liberal Democrats, David Cameron becomes the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom". HonouraryMix (talk) 18:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Could we post both, eg 'Gordon Brown resigns as PM and leader of the Labour party. David Cameron, leader of the Conservative party, becomes the new PM'? - JuneGloom07 Talk? 18:43, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
We'd have to wait until Cameron is appointed by the Queen, though. He doesn't automatically become PM after Brown resigns. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:44, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Posting both seems inappropriate, due to the significance of other reports too.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
They are the same event. Seriously guys, the UK always has a Prime Minister, just because we don't publicly know who it is yet, rest assured, the Trident missiles are in safe hands. Cameron is off to the Palace now, he'll be the publicly acknowledged PM in half an hour at most. MickMacNee (talk) 19:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
It's always better when it is reported in the template as shorter as possible. Then, more common is to avoid unnecessary facts. The main point is that David Cameroon becomes new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and the report should be concluded roughly.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Not really. This is not, for the UK, a normal election and a normal transition of power. It is the end of 13 years of continual Labour government, and the first non-majority/multi party government in 3 decades. Had this been a normal election, this second posting wouldn't have even occured, we would have known the new PM immediately after the conclusion. Some of that needs working in somehow. MickMacNee (talk) 19:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Suggested blurb:

MickMacNee (talk) 18:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Alternate 2:

Alternate 3:

  • Cameron will be the 19th Old Etonian to be appointed Prime Minister. I suppose NPOV disallows mentining that in the blurb lol. MickMacNee (talk) 18:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support but suggest the blurb mention Cameron first, and Brown second. The emphasis of the blurb should be on the new Prime Minister, not the old one. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per Mkativerata. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Support but suggest simply David Cameron becomes Prime Minister of the United Kingdom after the recent general election. We can expand the blurb if necessary with details of the coalition. The announcement is due any moment, Cameron is already at the Palace. Physchim62 (talk) 19:19, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Cameron on way back to Downing St now. Mjroots (talk) 19:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Just confirmed live on BBC1 that Cameron is PM. Mjroots (talk) 19:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Post now. Suggest Alternate 3. Cameron is the new Prime Minister. Sort the coallition details later, but it should go in. MickMacNee (talk) 19:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Post now and go with Alt3 or something like it. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • The current blurb is wholly inadequate. It implies Cameron was simply Brown's deputy, or that the election was a walkover. It completely ignores it is the first coallition govt since 1945, (it's a full con-lib coallition, now confirmed). The poor Queen doesn't even get a look in. This isn't the USA, she does actually have a role here, it is her house these two guys have been trapsing in and out of this evening to complete this transition. Why are admins simply changing around with the template, and haven't even bothered commenting here? MickMacNee (talk) 19:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
    • I don't think the "becomes" wording is great. The wording of Alt 2 and Alt 3 are better. Alt 2 in particular contextualises Cameron's appointment more clearly. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:56, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
    • You're not the only one who proposed a blurb, first off. Secondly, if we were to incorporate everyone's demands for what the blurb should say, the whole template would be just this one thing; we can't put it all. Insofar as I see it, the only thing most of the rest of the world cares about is that Cameron is the new PM. But now you're demanding the Queen get a mention and the fact that the first coalition government in X years gets a mention. Then others want the election linked in there. Others want Brown's resignation in there. Sure, some combination of those should be in the blurb, but I don't see any evidence of agreement on what. I'm trying my best (and I presume Jdforrester did his); the world doesn't revolve around you. -- tariqabjotu 20:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
      • There is clear support for mentioning the nature of the government, and only one proposed blurb does not include the Queen. This is presumbaly because these are the two crucial points which differentiate this event, and the UK, from any other tinpot nation's transition of power. But whatever, you figure it out between you using your bits if you want, I could care less. I waste far too much time of my life on this pointless board. MickMacNee (talk) 20:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
        • Only one proposed blurb does not include the Queen. What? On the contrary, all of the proposed blurbs, aside from yours, omit the Queen. -- tariqabjotu 20:23, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
          • Whatever. As if that was even the main point. Still, the Queen appears in every update not controlled by admins, so maybe that says something. The most important aspect is the first coallition government for decades, the thing everybody was waiting for confirmation of after the news brown was stepping down came through. But no, we still have a blurb that simply suggests one party has replaced another, like any other ordinary transition. Five days has been included, from nowhere, but that is hardly going to educate people who don't know, or be of use to people who do. MickMacNee (talk) 21:56, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

World Chess Championship 2010

Vishwanathan Anand retains World Chess Champion title after his win 6½-5½ over Veselin Topalov in their match played in Sofia.

I think it's good to be mentioned in the ITN template on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Support per WP:ITNR (Rediff)(BBC)--Wikireader41 (talk) 17:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
As WP:ITNR proves the significance of this report, could anybody add it in the ITN template?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per WP:ITNR. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Escalating Drone attacks in Pakistan

24 killed in Drone Strikes in North Waziristan on group linked to Faisal Shahzad.(Reuters)(BW)(AOL News)--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Links to Faisal :? I'm quite amazed. --yousaf465' 07:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Earth may be too hot for humans by 2300 /Marking it for future/

They say it some parts of earth will be too hot for living. --yousaf465' 09:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose posting a "50/50 chance" prediction some 290 years in the future. --ThaddeusB (talk) 12:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Maybe closer to the time, if we're not all dead already. ;)  f o x  12:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. Theoretical projections like this have no place on ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 15:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Too far away and the odds aren't that good. Truthsort (talk) 17:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
I dunno Isn't a 50% chance of half the currently inhabited world becoming just plain too hot to live in as bad as a 100% chance of 1/4 the currently inhabited world becoming just plain too hot to live in? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Wait till it happens. --PlasmaTwa2 21:36, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Haha. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:46, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Why not move it to future events ;) --yousaf465' 07:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Requested in signpost.--yousaf465' 02:29, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Worst radiation incident worldwide in four years

IAEA says it the Worst radiation incident worldwide in four years, now investigations are going on.--yousaf465' 09:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. This has obvious significance. --candlewicke 19:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. There many related articles on Wikipedia. Perhaps List of civilian radiation accidents is the most suitable? And I see it has been updated! Slightly 'old' news but! -- (talk) 20:19, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Add. New York times had it on April 24, [36] & 28 [37]. -- (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. unfortunately waste disposal laws are very poor in many countries and such problems not at all uncomon--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment: See Goiânia accident (Brazil, 1987) for comparison, fortunately this one (so far) is no where near as severe. -- (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Also see Radioactive scrap metal, closest article match. -- (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Significant yes, but in my view not sufficiently significant for ITN. It is also one of those slow-building news stories (I recall reading about in the NYT a few weeks ago) for which it is difficult to isolate a discrete ITN event. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment:You are correct, Mkativerata. NYT 24 & 28 April, links above.("Support" № 2) -- (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment Slow moving yes, but significant enough, British elections were also slow moving :). Never seen such highly radioactive material in hands of a common man who don't have the security clearance to handle such material. It would have easily used to make dirty bomb. I had to go through proper channels to inspect such materials in the hospital. --yousaf465' 05:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

May 10

ITN candidates for May 10

Lena Horne died

Hi. I don't know your death criteria anymore, and also don't know enough about Ms. Horne, but think maybe. Here is the NYT. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose Obviously a significant person but not significant enough to get an ITN for their death, per WP:ITN/DC. At her age, the death was hardly unexpected. --Mkativerata (talk) 03:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
That's fine and usually my line. :-) This nomination is a bit of a catchup for Dorothy Height who died at age 98. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

100 dead in Iraq

Support large attack in Iraq. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:16, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support once an article exists and is sufficiently expanded. --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I've created 10 May 2010 Iraq attacks and will expand it in a minute once I've finished with a rather sinister vandal. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:52, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per nom--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, this can't go up unless someone is BOLD enough to close the ill advised AfD early. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
AfD has been withdrawn. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

{combined from above) Sure it may be notable as such a case is rare where some nearly 400 people were dead or maimed, but its not going to go up without a page of its ownLihaas (talk) 10:56, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Gordon Brown steps down

Support — I had an edit conflict with Thue while proposing the same thing. I suggest that this would replace the current UK election item, possibly with a wording like this:

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown announces that he will resign as Leader of the Labour Party, following a general election which resulted in a hung parliament.

Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 16:38, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment - has he actually stepped down? My reading of it (based upon what the BBC is saying) is that he will step down, not he has stepped down. It seems he will carry on as PM until the outcome of coalition negotiations are known and him stating that he is stepping aside is a move made to try and aid Labour's chances of a coalition with the Lib Dems --Daviessimo (talk) 16:43, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Isn't that what Thue and I both said? "...intends to step down", "...will resign". Do either of those suggest that he's already done it, or is doing it now? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 17:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose as a stand alone piece: we don't usually run changes in party leadership, and Brown continues as Prime Minister. Let's wait until Britain has something resembling a government before posting. Physchim62 (talk) 16:51, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Let's wait and post the formation of a new government, not every detail of the political manoeuvering beforehand. Algebraist 17:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I think a sitting prime minister announcing his intention to resign is a bit more significant than merely a detail of political manoeuvering. I wouldn't support an item about, say, talks between the Lib Dems and the other parties, but this is a landmark moment. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 17:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't say it is a landmark moment. As leader of the Labour party he has seen a 188 seat swing to the Conservatives, a result that can only be described as a trouncing. His resignation from this position was entirely expected --Daviessimo (talk) 17:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose for the time being. Leaky Caldron 17:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose only an announcement. When the next government is formed that should be posted on ITN. Jolly Ω Janner 18:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Folk are confused enough (folk in general, not necessarily just on - leave it until he actually stands down. Until then it's just another political announcement (that may yet come to nothing - he could change his mind (unlikely...) or get hit by a bus before he actually resigns. That, and the accusations of UK-bias that will inevitably occur... TFOWRThis flag once was red 19:52, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose as well - it's big news here, but worldwide not so much - there are going to be headline grabbing stories every day until the government get sorted, so can't post everything. SteveRwanda (talk) 20:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment I would have thought the incumbent Prime Minister announcing his future resignation is in a whole different league to the love letters being sent around Westminster. It doesn't matter what the resolution of this is; Brown is out. --.:Alex:. 21:00, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose As has been noted, he's only said he will resign, not that he will right now. Wait until a new government has been formed before we put up a new item. HonouraryMix (talk) 21:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose This was going to happen eventually, but the fact it happened all at once was unusual. Doc Quintana (talk) 01:47, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Deniz Baykal quits

The leader of Turkey's main opposition party (CHP), Deniz Baykal has resigned following the release of an alleged "sex scandal" videotape featured on Metacafe. Kavas (talk) 13:34, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Newsworthy I'm sure, but not sufficiently significant for ITN. If we're not going to post the resignation of Gordon Brown, we shouldn't post this. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. Since the British election has been posted the above no longer makes sense to me. This has coverage across the Turkish media and internationally, including The Independent, CNN, Xinhua, Al Jazeera, The Guardian, Financial Times, The New York Times, Voice of America. It seems like the sort of unexpected resignation which would feature on ITN. --candlewicke 20:46, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

OECD enlargement

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development invites Estonia, Israel and Slovenia to become members of the organisation. Beagel (talk) 12:45, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Support. We've put Chile on ITN when they received an invitation last time OECD invited a new country. So this is the time to post this one. --Tone 13:36, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support as above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
The article is updated, posting. --Tone 18:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose It is just an invitation. I don't think we had enough support yet to be posted.--yousaf465' 03:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Merkel Cabinet II

Moved to 12 May.

EU trillion dollar rescue package

EU has crafted a trillion dollar 'shock and awe' rescue package to raise its credibility in face of the debt crisis and a sliding euro.(NYT),(Bloomberg)--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Question: is this the European Union or the Eurozone? Contrary to what the American media report, the two terms aren't interchangeable. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
support. this will have major impact on current mess that europe is in. there hasnt been a big government bailout in a while so pretty big news -- Ashish-g55 04:11, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - To answer HJ, this is a Eurozone security net, although the Germans want an EU wide security package (which us Britons are likely to veto!). I think the issue here is that Spain, Portugal and Ireland are teetering on the brink and Germany et al would rather avoid another 'Greek tragedy' (I'm sorry I couldn't help myself) --Daviessimo (talk) 06:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
There are several parts to it: €60bn in loans to any EU country (to which the UK will contribute); €440bn in loan guarantees among the Eurozone countries; €220–250bn in IMF facilities for Eurozone countries; and quantitative easing by the ECB and centtral banks in the Eurozone. Physchim62 (talk) 10:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
oppose if the plunge in the market on thursday was not big enough this is nothing. bond yields may further increase in the coming/days and weeks, you never know. (talk) 07:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Did we post the US bailout (or stimulus) when it happened a few years back? ~DC Talk To Me 07:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Question: do we have an update anywhere? 2010 European sovereign debt crisis hadn't been updated last time I checked, and is in pretty awful shape anyway. Physchim62 (talk) 10:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I have started the update at 2010 European sovereign debt crisis#EU Rescue package. please jump jump right in and help expand.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:53, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. A key event in the history of the European Union. Thue | talk 16:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support, with better wording (which I'll leave for others to formulate). —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 16:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong support: More notable than most current ITN items, IMO. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 17:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment. the update looks better developed now. Suggested blurb - European Union announces a rescue package worth almost a trillion dollars to help stabilize financial markets. --Wikireader41 (talk) 23:13, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

May 2010 Siberia mine explosion

bumped from below since it's being ignored in favour of more recent noms HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:34, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, deadly mining accidents are not uncommon in Russia. Nonetheless, I support. No article appears to exist - 2010 Raspadskaya mining accident would be my first choice for article title... I might start work on it shortly. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:09, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
That might be a little over-specific so I've created 2010 Siberia mine explosion and redirected it there, but feel free to delete the redirect and move it if you really want. That's the first article i created since i passed RfA- I forgot I had autoreviewer! Oooh! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
The only problem being that there tend to be multiple deadly mine explosions in Serbia every year: [38]. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:30, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Moved to "May 2010..." (after I initially forgot what month we're in and re-moved it w/o redirect!). From reading the sources, I think Raspadskaya is the company that owns the mine rather than the location which would be a bit odd for an article title. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Raspadskaya is definitely the company that owns it... I don't know why that would be weird though: it is an explosion that happened at a Raspadskaya mine, hence a Raspadskaya mine explosion. In any case, "May 2010 ..." is fine. I see you got a good start on the article, so I'll let you have at it. However, feel free to drop me a line if you want some help. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I think it's worth bearing in mind that tragedy does not equal news or encyclopedic-ness. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Sure, tragedy doesn't equate w/those things but it does usually lead to news coverage and quite often lasting impact (i.e. becoming "encyclopedia worthy") --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Just for the record,we've posted similar events with lower casualty numbers in the past. Also, it looks like there were two explosions. I've brought the article up to postable standards but now I have to go to bed- it needs de-orphaning and probably some cosmetic work if anybody's up for it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:14, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
This also seems to be the worst such incident (as far as I can tell) in Russia for a while. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Support as above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Support as above.--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:43, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I could support but what about the article., I think it still needs some lipid deposits. --yousaf465' 02:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support if there is an article as there have been lots of circumstances where mining disasters or eight dead people have been posted. --candlewicke 03:39, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Article massively expanded and updated. Seems to be affecting victory day celebrations (which are currently on ITN). Suggest for a blurb:

{{*mp|May 8}} Two mine explosions in eastern Russia kill at least 13 people with up to 60 injured and 80 unaccounted for.

HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
That's horrible! --candlewicke 04:34, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Hey, I've been up all night! Any (other) admins around to post this (preferably with a better blurb)? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I meant the amount of deaths. ;) --candlewicke 07:39, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm surprised there hasn't been more support for it- after all, there's no news like bad news! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 07:54, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. BBC now reporting 30 deaths. Physchim62 (talk) 09:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, article updated with the BBCs stats. I believe that makes 30 fatalities, 71 injuries and up to 80 still missing. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 09:19, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Dallas Braden's perfect game

Very rare achievement, even if it's the second in as many years. Averages one every five years in recent decades. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 23:14, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Support. I was just about to nominate this myself. That's 19 times since 1876, by the way. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Support per Kitch--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure. What about other rare baseball occurrances, or such occurrances in any other sport? I think only championships should be placed on ITN. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

  Administrator note: No comment on the nomination (this is one of the few where I have no opinion either way) but the article, as it is currently, is unpostable. The update consists of "On May 9, 2010, Braden pitched the 19th perfect game in MLB history against the Tampa Bay Rays in Oakland. He did it in just 109 pitches, 77 of which were strikes." with no source provided. It will also need a copyedit and some more detail on his career but certainly more than one unsourced line on this achievement. On further examination, I've also added a {{BLPsources}} tag. Verifiability issues will need to be dealt with if this is to be posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose a few weeks ago there was a cricket item, about an achievment that (if I recall) was a lot more notable than a once-every-year-event. If I remember correctly we did not post that on itn. There should be no single-game items on itn. --PlasmaTwa2 00:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
The perfect game article has a better update at the moment, although it's still probably insufficient to be used as the target article. -- tariqabjotu 00:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose This is similar to a hat-trick in Test cricket. About 35 or so since 1877. Not rare enough for a single game. Something that happens once evey six years in a specific match isn't notable. A soccer team winning 8-0 probably doesn't happen every six years either, are we going to post chelsea? Or a footballer kicking 4 or 5 goals in a match YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 01:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
How many test cricket matches are there in a year? There are, I believe, 2,430 baseball games among all the teams in an MLB season (81*32), which means perfect games happen something like once every 10,000 games. And it's not just the rarity (unassisted triple plays are even rarer) but the fact that it is the absolute pinnacle of achievement for a pitcher -- retiring all 27 batters faced without allowing a single base runner. In a sport that gets so misty-eyed about its history, and that is so wrapped up in statistics, no-hitters, and especially perfect games, are not just statistical quirks but highlights of the year. I guess you kind of have to be in a baseball-playing part of the world to understand. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Support - very rare achievement: just 19 in 140 years of professional baseball averaging 1000-2000 games a year. The cricket item referred to above wasn't promoted in large part because no update was made, which is mandatory for ITN. Additionally, no one was able to provide any evidence that it was actually unique and it generated very little news coverage. If no one makes an update sooner, I'll do one in a couple hours. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose. I agree that this is unusual. But it's not a first. The last similar piece that we posted (if my memory serves me correctly) was the six trophies won by FC Barcelona in a single year in soccer [39]. The traffic was hardly astounding, albeit for an article which is popular anyway, despite the fact that soccer is more globally popular than baseball and that this really was an unprecidented achievement (rather than just a very rare one). Physchim62 (talk) 01:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
We posted a cricket story earlier this year. And while soccer may be more globally popular, baseball is more popular amongst countries where English is primarily used. ~DC Talk To Me 01:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean primarily and why does it matter? There are significant English speaking populations in many European countries, African countries and Asian countries to varying degrees. In all bar a few (perhaps Japan, South Korea and the Philippines) football is much more popular usually by fair. Also the case in several South American and Central American countries although the situation is more complicated in some. Even India, where football is hardly the most popular sport I'm pretty sure its popularity dwarfs that of baseball. Now in terms of number of wikipedia users, there may be more from places where baseball is popular but your comment was on 'where English is primarily used' nothing to do with wikipedia users. Nil Einne (talk) 22:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - there's 162 games and 30 teams, so there are 4,860 total games in a season. If perfect games occur once every five years, that means that it occurs once every 24,300 games. Wow. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 01:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm no mathematician, but because each game involves two teams, I believe the way to calculate total MLB games in a season is to divide the number of games each team plays (162) by two (making 81), then multiply that number by the number of teams (30). So the chance of any one game having a perfect game thrown in it is about 1 in 12,150. However, looking at it another way, the chance of any pitcher throwing a perfect game in any one start is 1 in 24,300. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:13, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I am a failure at math. Thanks for the correction. :) —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 02:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose - Whether it is baseball, or cricket, or soccer, or whatever, I don't think we should be honoring single game achievements here. These things are somewhat newsy (in that lots of news outlets will mention it), but they aren't very encyclopedic. Nearly the totality of the story is in the blurb itself, so the update related to the event is often trivial. (I'm glad people are updating the article in general, but improving a previously weak article isn't really relevant to whether we have more to teach people more about the event itself.) Dragons flight (talk) 02:11, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose per Plasma Twa 2. also this happened pretty recently just last year so its really not as rare. and its single game event that can happen anytime. As said above its like Cricket Hat-trick which will never pass ITN. last year's perfect game got posted since we thought it wont happen again for long time... so a definite oppose here -- Ashish-g55 02:28, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
"its single game event that can happen anytime" but it doesn't (Also, by that logic, a plane crash can happen any day, so why post that?) The rest of your statement is equally as flawed, per usual for you. ~DC Talk To Me 02:45, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
19 times in 140 years (or 390,000+ chances) is hardly "once every year". The fact that two happened in two years, is pure coincidence. And like DC said the fact that "it can happen every day" but doesn't is an argument for inclusion, if anything. The argument "X could have happened any day, so really its no big deal" could apply to absolutely any news story.
Most importantly, we aren't just talking about a random stat that happens to be super rare - like, say or scoring 4 goals in ice hockey - but rather a ultimate achievement in the sport, literally the best game possible, hence the name 'perfect game'. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
an ultimate achievement in a sport is totally relative to that particular sport. as such every sport has their own rare events. if they are not records (or atleast a first/last) they should not be posted. simple as that. a plane crash is not the same as a single game event... unless a 100 people dying in a plane crash has same importance as a perfect game. you can not compare the two... -- Ashish-g55 03:28, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
And I never said other sports didn't have events that would be worthy of inclusion. I just said that comparing a perfect game to a 8-0 soccer game or scoring a specific number of goals - both of which are random stats points - isn't fair. Secondly, applying your argument to area where it obviously doesn't make sense is a perfect way to show how the structure of argument is invalid. Every plane can crash just like every baseball game can be a perfect game. Just as the argument makes no sense to exclude plane crashes, it makes no s