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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/May 2007

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Archived discussion for May 2007 from Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates.

May 31

Valdis Zatlers is a mini-stub. Better to bold the link to Latvian presidential election, 2007? -- 12:58, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
This is a story of international importance because... -- 13:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
80 is a LOT of A350s, but the article has not been updated and any update wouldn't run to more than a sentence. Unless there's some aspect to this I'm unaware of. --Monotonehell 14:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I am hesitant. I am not convinced how internationally significant this is. Seems more like a local matter. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 23:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't think that is exactly of international interest. This isn't even the largest group in America (only 3rd largest) that is being evicted. Even events like the quarantine and possible TB situation don't seem to be getting ample attention this time around. The great kawa 06:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I only count one line in the article that has been updated Nil Einne 12:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

May 28

Article is a little stubby. The suicide is only mentioned in a couple of sentences. Plus, I am not sure that someone as a Minister of Agriculture is, as the ITN criteria states, a high ranking office of power or a key figure in their field of expertise. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 22:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I put it on, but now have took it off because of lots of POV problems. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 17:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
May 2007 RCTV protests also is possible. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 19:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, Wikipedia is not a newspaper, it's an encyclopedia. This item is barely notable enough for a newspaper, the article will most likely be deleted. --Monotonehell 11:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

May 27

Final election count isn't over yet. By tomorrow morning it can go up. —Cuiviénen 01:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Now included as Laois-Offaly has completed counting. —Cuiviénen 04:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

They have moved the date back again? How many times have they done that? In any case, the 2007 Ukrainian political crisis article needs to be cleaned up – it has tons of {{proseline}}. Secondly, the Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2007 currently does not mention the new September 30 date. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

May 25

Is there an article about the recent spate of doping confessions? Because it wasn't just Bjarne Riis; Erik Zabel, Rolf Aldag and Udo Bölts, three other notable cyclist, also confessed to doping use this week. AecisBrievenbus 20:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

May 23

Could the article be cleaned up? Most of it is {{proseline}}. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 13:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm sceptical this qualifies for ITN, either in international interest or in sufficiently updated. The original story could have but we missed that boat. The discovery of the body is IMHO not however of sufficient international interest nor has it or is it likely to merit the level of update necessary Nil Einne 15:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

May 22

  • I'd suggest that the picture is change to this May 18 story, which has drawn some interest for its possible connection to the Soviet/Russian secret police, the KGB and its successor. --Camptown 11:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  • There have been some updates to several of these articles, but I don't know if they are sufficient for ITN, and which article should be bolded in the blurb in case this is posted. "The Crown Prosecution Service files charges against Andrei Lugovoi for the poisoning of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko." It should be noted for ITN that "files charges" may not be 100% correct, someone who knows the British situation better might want to have a close look at the wording. Any thoughts / comments / suggestions? Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 11:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
More on the above, regarding the notability of this case:
  1. This is a notable development in a notable case, which was featured on ITN when it occurred.
  2. This may have serious consequences. Lugovoi is in Russia atm. Extraditing him to the UK would breach article 61 of the Russian constitution ("The citizen of the Russian Federation may not be deported out of Russia or extradited to another state."). Not extraditing him is likely to create a serious political/diplomatic crisis between Russia and the UK.
Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 11:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd say hold off until any fall out occurs, either extradition-wise, conviction-wise or similar. Wait for a truly notable fallout event. --Monotonehell 14:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Should be included in main page. -- Cat chi? 18:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The 2007 Ankara bombing article seems too stubby to be featured. Let's wait for it to grow a bit more. --PFHLai 22:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Better now? The school shootings were placed on the main page faster than this. This is a developing story. -- Cat chi? 02:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Except for the fact that the school shooting articles grew at an incredible rate within a day. Currently (not including the section headers, the infobox, and the references section) 2007 Ankara Explosion is still a two paragraph stub. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 13:55, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Note the was a common view that the Virginia thing was premature. Not that it hadn't eventually been updated sufficiently for ITN or that it wasn't of international interest but at the time it wasn't 100% clear it was of international interest and more importantly it hadn't been sufficiently updated. Nevertheless, the fact that the rules for ignored once is no excuse to ignore them again Nil Einne 15:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

May 21

Lebanese Army troops and Palestinian militants engage in clashes in Lebanon, killing dozens.

a headline on most news sites --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:33, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
please put "dozens" instead of "seventy" as the numbers cannot be yet confirmed. You can put the picture is PD 100% --TheFEARgod (Ч) 17:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
But dozens is very vague. I'll think of a way to remove the number though. -- tariqabjotu 19:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, someone got to it first; the current wording seems to work fine. -- tariqabjotu 19:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, the PD map can't be used as everything appears too tiny at 100px. --PFHLai 19:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

May 20

  • An IAF plane fires a missile at the house of Hamas lawmaker Khalil al-Haya, killing eight people and wounding many others in the 2007 Israel-Gaza conflict. Al-Haya as not at home at the time of the air strike.

May be too specific, or need some modifying in itself, but something about this conflict should be on the main page. What are your thoughts? Hello32020 20:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

This does not seem to be a particularly important juncture in the 2007 Israel-Gaza conflict. Perhaps this should have been on ITN when the airstrikes began last week. Maybe we can stick this old news in at the bottom of ITN and bump off Wolfowitz and his girlfriend at the World Bank. Please draft a wikified headline. --PFHLai 19:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I would support this. The article has seen very heavy editing today, and presumably this is a sign of its high level of interest among readers. It is top of the news bulletins: (BBC) --Mais oui! 11:34, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely, definitely, this needs to be on ITN. Notable event, notable ship. The article needs a lot of references though. Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 11:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted. --PFHLai 18:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Seriously? A random old ship catches fire. That's what qualifies as worldwide important news these days, eh? ♠ SG →Talk 01:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The Cutty Sark is not "a random old ship", it was the only ship of its age still in existence, and it is/was one of the oldest ships in existence, if not the oldest. The Cutty Sark would already have made it to Wikipedia in the 1870s, as the fastest ship in the world. Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 10:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
This appears to be a small part of a much larger story, Bulgaria joining the EU, which, I think, was on ITN already when that happened. Perhaps a headline that explains the significance and the political controversy about this election would be helpful. --PFHLai 19:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The election is a separate thing, Bulgaria joined the EU on 1 January after all. And the headline above already summarizes the most important facts about it. Certainly, it is more important than gold coins being retrieved or a ship catching fire, or the outcome of the annual FA Cup Final. TodorBozhinov 07:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
This doesn't seem to be a major story on its own, imo. However, I'm not familiar with Bulgarian politics, so perhaps another admin, possibly an Europe-based admin, could look into it. --PFHLai 23:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm surprised the Heineken Cup final result wasn't even suggested, considering it's a Europe-wide competition, and that this final was notable in a couple of ways. (first all-English final; potential for Leicester to have claimed first English treble) Rawling4851 12:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
This has the same problem with the Super14 Final suggested below: 2006-07 Heineken Cup#Final could use some prose. Non-rugby enthusiasts would not understand the stats. --PFHLai 22:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough! Rawling4851 22:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

May 19

The wording could do with improvement, especially regarding the repetition of the word "win". Any thoughts? Hammer Raccoon 23:21, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Common practice when it comes to sport is to list only international events, and only the top events: Champions League, World Cup and perhaps European Championships. We don't list national league results or national cup results. AecisBrievenbus 01:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Erm, no it isn't. All major sporting events are applicable - we've noted NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, championships here, so your bit about international events is a bit off gaillimhConas tá tú? 01:48, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
As a Chelsea fan this should be included >:) --Howard the Duck 03:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm with Aecis, actually. It isn't a question so much about national/international as to whether it represents the highest annual achievement in club competition in a particular sport. The NBA is the foremost venue for professional basketball players from all around the world, hence the NBA Finals is notable, even though the teams are based in two countries. I think its generally held that the highest annually-awarded achievement in club football in terms of quality of players would be the UEFA Champions League. If we only post the English Premiership, someone quite rightfully could claim that the top divisions in Italy, Germany or Spain or whatever represent equally-notable achievement in sport. The Tom 04:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
The FA Cup Final is broadcast in a lot of countries, and in the English Wikipedia, we can perhaps add news English-language speakers care about... like the winner of the (English) FA Cup. The Spanish Wikipedia may pass this and instead post the winner of the Copa del Rey, the French Wikipedia may post the winner of the Coupe de France, etc.
Which brings me to the UEFA Champions League Final 2007 is coming so we might have two soccer related items at ITN. Maybe the Ducks winning the Stanley Cup will balance that out. Or we may add a filler item since they (FA and UEFA CL Cups) may appear consecutively. --Howard the Duck 06:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Surely the most notable thing about this FA cup final is that it is being played at the new Wembley, so surely that should be given prominence in the ITN posting? Batmanand | Talk 08:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I've posted this at WP:ERRORS, maybe Drogba's gotta go. --Howard the Duck 12:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
It is longstanding ITN (and indeed, Wikipedia-wide) policy to emphatically not show different standards to events on account of their degree of appeal to a specifically anglophone readership. Yes, it happens as a creeping bias, but that's something to be prevented, not embraced. The Tom 18:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Aecis is correct. ITN practice is to only list the final of the top level international competition in any sport. For soccer that would be the FIFA World Cup. This item should not have been inserted. --Monotonehell 17:52, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Although this might be widespread knowledge amongst frequent ITN contributors, I posted this suggestion even after fully reading the criteria above, which suggest no such common practise. Anyway, the reason this belongs here is because the FA Cup is the oldest football competition in the world, watched by an estimated 484 million in 2005. No other domestic cup competition comes close to its worldwide popularity. Hammer Raccoon 21:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

First RSA Team to win the Super 14, the Southern Hemisphere's premier domestic rugby union championship.--HamedogTalk|@ 21:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this the final of the top level international competition in club rugby ? --PFHLai 17:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
It is the top rugby league in the world, and yes this should be on the fron 23:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll pass for now. 2007 Super 14 season#Final could use some prose, so that readers who don't know rugby stats can still understand what happened. --PFHLai 18:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Negative: Rugby World Cup is the highest level of Rugby Union and Rugby League World Cup is the highest level of Rugby League (yes there's a difference). Super 14 is a major international comp, but only consists of Southern Hemisphere Nations. --Monotonehell 19:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The World Cups are not held every year. What are the top competitions in years without World Cup ? How about top competitions that involve professional clubs instead of countries ? --PFHLai 19:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Rugby World Cup is a national team competition, this is a league competition, which is completely different, it slike saying dont put up the NBA Championship, just the Gold Medlaist Basketball team in the olympics. 22:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The basketball case seems easy. The NBA Finals for the professional clubs, and the FIBA World Championships for the inter-nationals. What are the equivalents for rugby ? Too many to choose from ? --PFHLai 23:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
You could argue the same for football/soccer - FIFA World cup and too many club/domestic equilivents - yet the FA Cup still went up. I still have the feeling that for May we should have something like "Sports seasons come to a conclusion with Chelsea winning the FA Cup, Bulls winning the Super 14, XXXX Stanley Cup, YYYY UEFA Champions League". So many seasons conclude in May.--HamedogTalk|@ 01:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Not worth a reply? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hamedog (talkcontribs) 01:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
These stories get old rather fast anyway, I suggest removing them 2-3 days after the event even though they're not at the bottom of the list. --Howard the Duck 04:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted as:
--PFHLai 17:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps we should mention Merchant Royal when the ship's ID is confirmed. --PFHLai 17:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

May 18

Support: This is important news, not least from a historical perspective; and a big step forward for the Christian Orthodox community. Bondkaka 16:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia#Reconciliation talks needs some minor clean-up, wikifying and changing of tenses. --13:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
After some copy eds, I think the story might be ready for ITN. Camptown 18:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Although the "reconciliation talks" section isn't perfect, I, too, think ITN inclusion is probably now appropriate. I would suggest that we reword the suggestions slightly, though, inasmuch as leaders sign a pact, reuniting isn't syntactically pretty: Russian Orthodox leaders sign a pact to reunite the Russian Orthodox Church (Saviour Cathedral pictured) and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, an offshoot established abroad following the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917. Joe 18:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that's much better. --Camptown 18:57, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted a shorter version:
--PFHLai 17:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
The image above seems to be licensed correctly. Can we use that instead of the older item's picture?.. although "taken by my brother" sounds a bit fishy. --Monotonehell 18:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I cropped a similar pic of the same church from Commons yesterday, but I got called away from the computer before I could upload it. I hope today's picture of Cutty Sark is okay. --PFHLai 19:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Another suggestion/heads up in advance: about a month ago, we posted the suspension/impeachment of Romanian president Traian Băsescu. The referendum on his impeachment will be held tomorrow, on Saturday, May 19th. The relevant article is Romanian presidential impeachment referendum, 2007. AecisBrievenbus 00:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Romanian presidential impeachment referendum, 2007 carries {{Original research}}, {{Unreferenced}} & {{Copyedit}} tags. This may not be an ideal candidate for MainPage. If possible, please fix up the article while we wait for the official vote tally. Thanks. --PFHLai 17:08, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

May 17

  • Trains move between North and South Korea for the first time in 50 years - BBC. Similar item to the opening of Nathu La last year which was included on ITN. I'd add it to an article, but which one? --Peta 05:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Transportation in South Korea#Services to North Korea & Transportation in North Korea#Rail links with adjacent countries. --16:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Please draft a headline. --PFHLai 16:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • What I brought up yesterday, has become reality today: Paul Wolfowitz has resigned as head of the World Bank Group. AecisBrievenbus 22:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
    So how exactly would you prefer it to be written in the box? We obviously can't write that... :) Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 23:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
    The wording is a difficult matter. If we are too terse, we run the risk of violating WP:LIBEL and WP:BLP. If we are comprehensive, we run the risk of a massive blurb filled with unreadable legalese. My suggestion would be: "Paul Wolfowitz announces his resignation as President of the World Bank Group, following allegations of ethics violations involving his girlfriend Shaha Riza." AecisBrievenbus 00:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
    Alternately, "World Bank president Paul Wolfowitz (pictured) resigns over an ethics controversy involving pay raises to his girlfriend Shaha Riza. One can end the blurb at "ethics controversy" as the story is tough to summarize in half of a sentence. The image to the right is from his US government days, so may not be appropriate. - BanyanTree 01:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Should be okay after cropping off the US flag in the background. --05:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
A cropped version of that Wolfowitz pic is already posted earlier today (not by me). --PFHLai 16:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Maybe this is more notable when he actually has kissed hands with the Queen? Bondkaka 16:24, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:Gordon Brown.jpg has {nsd}. Not good for the main page? --05:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

May 16

  • Michael Nutter (pictured) won the Philadelphia Democratic mayoral primary making him the presumptive winner of the general election in the fall. --evrik (talk) 18:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
    • So he is the Democratic candidate to become the mayor of Philadelphia? Oppose. Being candidate to become a mayor, or even becoming a mayor, is neither notable enough nor international enough, per our guidelines for news events. AecisBrievenbus 18:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
      • The Democratic candidate is the one who will win in the fall. Philadelphia is the fifth largest city in the United States (1.5M people) and this is a significant election. Check out the google links and this article Philadelphia mayoral election, 2007. --evrik (talk) 18:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
        • Do we usually mention mayoral elections on ITN? Even large ones? Did we mention Bloomberg winning, or Villaraigosa? Or the Daley du jour in Chicago? --Golbez 18:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
          • As far as I can recall, we have never mentioned mayoral elections. We didn't mention NY, LA and London, so I don't see why we should mention Philadelphia. AecisBrievenbus 21:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
            • Did anyone nominate the item for ITN? This may be a first. --evrik (talk) 18:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
A mayoral election is probably too minor in the world scale. Is there anything notable about this election ? First mayoral election in a long time, since a historic event? First ever Democrat to win? A deadly riot ensued? .... etc. --PFHLai 16:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

--Mais oui! 10:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Salmond's SNP won the election last week and that was on ITN. The amount of update in his article since seems too little. Maybe we should wait till he forms the first non-Labour goverment ? I hope there will be more new stuff to read then. --PFHLai 11:57, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is the first time in over 300 years that the head of government in Scotland has supported full sovereignty for the country. But if that is not notable enough for ITN, then I am not quite sure what kind of political earthquake would be? AFAIK this kind of thing has never occurred in Western Europe before. Please correct me if I am wrong (and before you say so, the Basque National Party have been in govt for ages, but they do not propose holding a referendum on independence). --Mais oui! 12:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't say "that is not notable enough for ITN". I'm asking for more updating in the relevant wikiarticles. --PFHLai 12:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

May 15

I was leaning towards posting it myself, and then had a last-minute attack of on-the-fence-ism. IMHO, it meets the qualifications of policy in word but maybe not in spirit. Ideally, I'd like deaths only on here if there is, for lack of a better term, "fallout" of some nature... a political power vaccum, or the sudden curtailment of a groundbreaking career, or international commemoration or somesuch. And so I'm wrestling with the idea of whether we can honestly say the world will be all that much of a different place tomorrow morning as it was 24 hours previously. I guess because of the subjectivity of all that we can only rely on the black and white we've established above, and as I said before, I think he's over the bar there. Notable figure in the middle of a notable career which came to a very sudden and wholly unexpected stop. The Tom 20:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure about "very sudden and wholly unexpected." He was 73 and had heart problems for a long time. AecisBrievenbus 20:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
His death must be included. He is a hugely notable figure, father of a cottage industry; he was politically influential; he founded a college and spawned legions of enemies. Let it knock off the Eurovision Song Contest. --zenohockey 01:57, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I personally don't think he qualifies for ITN. Per previous consensus, I don't think his death qualifies as suddenly or unexpectedly. While it was slightly unexpected, at his age and given his previous health problems, it's not that surprising. Remember there have been several clear experts in their fields (some prominent author and a mathemecian for starters) in recent months who have died and the consensus was that they didn't qualify. Therefore, the only criteria he would qualify under would be criteria 3. But I don't personally think his death has a major international impact. In any case, it's kind of irrelevant until the article has been updated enough for ITN and it doens't look like it has Nil Einne 02:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the above statement. We have had (arguably) the world's greatest cellist and Kurt Vonnegut die in the past months and their deaths were not put in ITN. Jerry Falwell was indeed notable in quite a few areas, especially within the U.S.A, but I do not think his death was totally unexpected nor do I think he a figure of international prominence, though that can be argued. The great kawa 10:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the above comments. And I don't think Falwell is too well known outside the US. I've never heard of him till I saw The People vs. Larry Flynt a few years ago. --PFHLai 12:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it would be very nice to have more science and nature, and less politics and violence. However, the Gorgeted Puffleg article is very short and stubby with only 113 words and 570 characters. (DYK asks for three times more.) Can this be expanded, please ? --PFHLai 13:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Huge news in NZ (basically NZ's OJ Simpson), don't know if wide enough global appeal. Appeal to case took place in London though.--HamedogTalk|@ 05:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure if there's enough international appeal, either. I haven't heard of this case before here in Canada. A quick search on GoogleNews shows many hits of NZ reports but very few beyond NZ& Australia. ... OJ's was probably a higher profile case, as OJ was already famous for a long time (a retired NFL star with occasional appearances in various movies) before he led that parade of police cars and TV helicopters across California. This may be closer to Sally Clark of the UK. ... The most important recent event, IMO, was the decision by the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council on May 10th, making this a bit too old for ITN now. --PFHLai 14:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

May 14

Since results aren't expected for about 3 weeks, I think it should at least be acknowledged that elections are being held. This is far more important than crap about Serbia winning Eurovision. --Howard the Duck 06:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Please do not call culturally significant events from the other side of the planet "crap". --PFHLai 12:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know it was that cultural. --Howard the Duck 13:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
While I don't support the addition of the elections right now, I second Howard's comment. "Culturally significant," please. The winner of the Eurovision song contest is news; whereas Slava's death is not. What kind of "culture" are you talking about?--Swattie 17:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I meant European popular music and the TV-viewing of the annual contest by the many millions across the service area of Eurovision for the past few decades, like a tradition. That's what people there watch and listen to every year. Please don't call it "crap". So not nice. BTW, "Slava's death" ? Who's Slava ? --PFHLai 03:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Mstislav Rostropovich. There are people who are very, very bitter about this and rightfully so. Not mentioning it severely questions Wikipedia's credibility. --Swattie 15:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
As discussed in ITN/C#April 29 & #April 27, ITN criterion #5 was not met. I don't see what this has to do with Wikipedia's credibility. The issue is that we are not supposed to report breaking news or post obituaries on ITN, going against the expectations of many readers for ITN. As suggested earlier, please go to Template talk:In the news if you think the ITN criteria need to be changed. --PFHLai 15:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I thought Slava Medvedenko died, lol. --Howard the Duck 02:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a significant and scary amount of violence accompanying the elections, 126 dead, which is notable enough for ITN regardless of the outcome. --Peta 04:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Whoa! This is scarier than 2007 Karachi riots over the past weekend (see #May 12 below). Yes, the violence should be mentioned on ITN, but the Philippine general election, 2007 article needs to mention the violence first. --PFHLai 04:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
The number is actually higer (around 200) but it was accumulated in a 3-month period. I'll be adding that shortly. --Howard the Duck 10:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Note: It was added already but someone. --Howard the Duck 10:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Snap some photos if you can, but please be careful and stay safe, Howard. --PFHLai 11:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted for now as
--PFHLai 13:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Nah, our place is peaceful, the candidates on our place are content on vote buying and changing "1" into "7" and adding more "0"s in the canvassing sheets. The killings are mostly in the hinterlands. --Howard the Duck 13:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

May 13

Here's a source if you need it.--Richard (Talk - Contribs) 02:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Good background on the deceased, but the article lacks could use more information on the "battle with coalition forces in southern Afghanistan", the circumstances that led to his death, i.e. his most current news. --PFHLai 13:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC), 13:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with PFHLai that the article could do with more information, but I don't think that should withhold us from putting this up. His death is highly notable, has an impact on current events, etc. It meets all of the requirements. AecisBrievenbus 22:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, Aecis. Posted as
--PFHLai 12:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
'Akhund' was removed. Redundant with Mullah. --PFHLai 15:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I do not support this as ITN. It may be international, but it hardly seems to be of significance. It's already the article of the day. --Swattie 22:35, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
How could this of significance to English language speakers? I think this should've posted iff that Atomic Kitten girl was the UK rep and she won. Now, if American Idol (season 6) doesn't make it 2 weeks from now, Wiki sucks :p --Howard the Duck 16:32, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
North American here who has only occasionally borne witness to the pinnacle of cultural achievement that is Eurovision (and I must confess in a very, very small voice that I think there's a Rock 'n' Roll Kids mp3 kicking around on my computer somewhere). Anyway, I think we hashed it out pretty conclusively last year that each years' overall Eurovision winner is notable, while everything in the preliminaries or spinoffs are what have you isn't. It should stay. The Tom 20:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
With more than 100 million TV viewers, the Eurovision Song Contest is almost for the Europeans what the Superbowl is for the Americans... Camptown 20:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Already posted (not by me) over the weekend. Eurovision Song Contest 2007 in bold.--PFHLai 12:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Agree with The Tom. BTW, 'American Idol' probably has too little history (maybe in another 20 years?) and narrow participation (need to include Canada, Mexico & the Carribean countries?) to have a similar level of cultural significance as the Eurovision Song Contest, IMO. --PFHLai 12:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Despite the non-participation of other countries, AI is widely aired internationally and non-Americans can see the program hours after the program was aired in the U.S. And when was the last time you've heard a Eurovision song on the radio? The radio station at our place plays Carrie Underwood and Katharine McPhee (and Atomic Kitten a few years ago, too) frequently. Plus it seems some international networks would broadcast the finale live. AI is an international event.
And as for history, say that to the World Baseball Classic. --Howard the Duck 14:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
The World Baseball Classic is a top-level competition in the sport of baseball, involving experienced professionals from different countries around the world, and is more "worldly" than the World Series! AI ? A contest for no-name amateurs from a single country. I might be persuaded, but not with a sports/competition spin. And, sorry, Howard, I usually don't know who's singing what song when I listen to the radio. --PFHLai 05:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Which brings me to... the AI article claims it is shown in about 100 countries; if you don't call it international then we might as well not mention the upcoming NBA Finals in June. --Howard the Duck 10:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
A contest participated only by no-name amateur singers from a single country versus the top-level competition in the sport of basketball, featuring quite a number of professional players from outside the US of A ? And who won the Atlantic division this past regular season ? However, I might be more supportive of AI if it becomes a "most watched TV programme", etc., with an ITN blurb saying so. --PFHLai 12:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, I'm not that fond of having entertainment news on ITN, except maybe the Oscars. --PFHLai 13:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Which brings me to... these no-namers eventually outsell that Atomic Kitten girl anyway. As for the Atlantic division, I'm more interested on what happens on the NL West, but have it your way. --Howard the Duck 13:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
NL West? This redirects to National League West in baseball. Are you referring to Barry Bonds ? I'm pretty sure I'll be away from the internet when the homerun record gets broken. Another admin will have to deal with that.
Those no-names may become high-profile entertainers in future. Their winning AI may get onto SA/OTD after they retire from showbiz, but I'd rather not get them onto ITN when they are still wannabes.
Having things my way too often means a bias towards my opinions, which are not necessarily 'right'. Please be encouraged to get more admins to patrol this page of the wiki. --PFHLai 14:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
The NL West which got swept by the Cards on the first round last year, and the year before that, too.
Nevertheless, the AI finale is a media event -- news. And they're really not just wannabes anymore, heck even Sanjaya's fan had an article here before it was justly deleted. And American Idol (season 6) is in quite a good shape already. --Howard the Duck 14:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
As for Barry Bonds, it should be added, along with the steroids part. --Howard the Duck 14:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
If steroids are not a confirmed part of the story, this shouldn't be mentioned on ITN. If steroids are indeed part of the story, Bonds wouldn't be allowed to play, so this record-breaking moment may not happen. To get the steroids story on ITN with the homerun record, it must become news very, very soon after the record is broken. --PFHLai 16:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Already posted (not by me) over the weekend. --PFHLai 12:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay some explanation may be required to help if you want to reword. The Samoan constitution allowed Malietoa to be paramount chief, but on his death, the constitution requires that the Samoan parliament elect their new president... so the old monarch has died to be replaced by a president. -- 00:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Definately notable. Let me try my hand at a wording. The Tom 20:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Already posted (not by me) over the weekend. --PFHLai 12:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

May 12

This blurb is probably too brief. Some mention of Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry may help explain what happened. --PFHLai 13:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Posted as
--PFHLai 12:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

May 11

As mentioned and agreed upon in the May 9 section, Jose Ramos-Horta has been declared the new president of East Timor. 90% of the vote is counted and he has 73%. I think the following would be suffice:

Thoughts? Rothery 14:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, José Ramos Horta "has declined to declare victory until the results are verified and final", so should ITN. And let's not mention the vote count on MainPage unless we have a confirmed, official figure. When it's official, please post to Portal: Current events, too. Thanks. --PFHLai 15:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
--Monotonehell-stands next to PFHLai for moral support on this count- 15:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I endorse what is said above. I think we should wait until the result of the run-off has been announced. If that has happened, I endorse putting this up. AecisBrievenbus 21:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted. --PFHLai 02:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

May 10

Already posted (not by me) >2h ago. Frankly, I don't think this should be on ITN. As I recall, the first announcement of his leaving was on ITN. How much more new materials about this have been added to the article since ? Adding a date ? --PFHLai 13:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm... actually, there is a new paragraph on what Blair plans to do the rest of his time as PM in Tony Blair#Blair and Gordon Brown. Okay, then. --PFHLai 13:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Re-linked to Premiership of Tony Blair#Resignation as Labour Party leader and Prime Minister. --PFHLai 14:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

May 9

On Wednesday, the East Timorese will vote in a runoff election to decide their new president. The page at East Timorese presidential election, 2007 appears to fulfill the criteria listed above. The winner may not be known the same day, but whenever it happens, maybe a simple headline such as

  • José Ramos Horta/Francisco Guterres is elected President of East Timor, defeating José Ramos Horta/Francisco Guterres in a peaceful/straightforward/controverisal/violent election with ?% of the vote.

Maybe can also add some context to the names, such as current Prime Minister or Fretilin leader or whatever. Just putting it on the radar for you guys. Cheers, Rothery 02:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. Topic-wise, this has a very good chance of getting onto ITN. Please keep the relevant articles well updated and referenced. We'll decide after the election has been documented in the wikiarticles. --PFHLai 19:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I've had a good look around the entire East Timor article space for a good recently updated article about the troubles that have visited East Timor but the latest substantial updates were in 2006. My reasoning is that we can use the election as an opportunity to add a wikilink to a colour article about East Timor's recent turbulent history. Something like ...
Redlinks aside of course. Can we find such an article? --Monotonehell 02:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The bolded link on ITN should go to the most relevant and best updated article, and in this case it'd better be East Timorese presidential election, 2007. Red links ? They never appear on MainPage, but it's okay for them to be in articles. --PFHLai 05:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I've caused you to miss my point. The redlink would be replaced by such an article I've asked people to try to find, if any exist. I bolded that link as that was the subject of my question, now underlined for emphasis instead. Iff we can find such an article (I've looked) and Iff it's suitable then I suggest we go with this format. If not then c'est la vie. --Monotonehell 05:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Oui, c'est dommage. :-(
Which unrest ? If it's about the gunfights before the first round of the election, it's already mentioned in East Timorese presidential election, 2007#Nominations and campaigns. --PFHLai 06:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps I was hoping for too much? I thought there may be an overarching article summarising the general unrest and violence of the past 6 months that had escaped my searching. Living in the region I see reports on the news about it most weeks. It's kind of akin to the general unrest going on in France of late (very vaguely speaking). --Monotonehell 07:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Operation Astute page, which I think you referenced before, only goes up to December 2006. Maybe we could update that page (the timeline seems to be the main timeline of events... obviously) and if you want, link it also from the headline. Obviously, as stated, the bolded link would be the presidential one though. Cheers, Rothery 07:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this event is interesting enough to merit ITN, but if so, inclusion would not be a bad idea. Perhaps this entry may need to be shortened, links allotted in better places, rephrased, etc. Any suggestions would be great. GracenotesT § 00:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think it's a good idea. But then I would – Gurch 01:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I support this, too. It'd be nice to have a major plot up for a change, we never get things like that. It's of international interest, just not international fame. That shouldn't stop us. Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 06:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
That's a pretty good job, written up very quickly. Posted. --PFHLai 09:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The subtropical storm caused the season (which ordinarily begins on June 1) to begin early. It is the first named subtropical storm to form in May in more than 25 years. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 19:56, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Reworded. —Cuiviénen 20:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Sounds better. By the way, long time no see. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 20:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Probably not yet, esp. 'there is little coverage of the case in other countries apart from the UK and Portugal'. Maybe if & when this becomes the biggest manhunt in Portuguese history.... --PFHLai 23:58, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
IMO, no!!! As bad as it is, a disappearance of a single toddler does not qualify as a matter of international importance. Even when world-renown people die, it is usually not included. So the abduction of a single toddler definitely does not qualify as such. As crass as I might be, that is the truth. The great kawa 12:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

May 8

Just two new sentences at Herod the Great#Purported tomb discovery ? Please add more to the article. Perhaps a few lines to describe the site and a few more on the circumstances of the discovery, etc..... --PFHLai 08:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I added a couple of sentences about the discovery. But, certainly, not very much about the circumstances of the discovery is officially confirmed right now. However, there will be a press conference in Jerusalem later in the day. Camptown 08:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted. Thanks for the updates. --PFHLai 16:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The main article could do with a major copyedit, overall it still reads like the suspension is still in force. Other than that I support its inclusion. --Monotonehell 02:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
There is very little updating over the past week in the Northern Ireland Assembly article. Please update the article with relevant info. Please also add to Portal:Current events. Don't forget references and external newslinks. Thanks. --PFHLai 05:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
It's already been added to Portal:Current events/Britain and Ireland, but I'll go over the article. --Kwekubo 09:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I've updated the content further and added links to some pertinent news stories. --Kwekubo 13:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Posted. Thanks for the updates. --PFHLai 16:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

May 7

Don't put it up on ITN yet. It's close to being a decent article, but it's still a stub now. It may be ready soon. --PFHLai 05:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Posted. --PFHLai 16:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

May 5

I would be more supportive if the blurb says this was "the ______-est tornado disaster since 19__," etc., or the tornado hit a major urban centre. I'll pass for now, as I don't see how significant/notable an event this is. --PFHLai 06:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
How about this:
If it was the first EF5 because it's the strongest ever, I'd be supportive on this suggestion. If it was the first EF5 simply because the Enhanced Fujita Scale is a newly adopted classification system, then, no, thanks. --PFHLai 19:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

May 4

A potential separatist movement who will likely form the goverment in a regional assembly is a significant political result. See discussion of May 3rd. --Neo 18:25, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
The SNP winning the plurality of votes in Scotland is indeed significant and ITN-worthy. What about Wales? Should we mention the election there, and what can be said about it? AecisBrievenbus 21:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
The SNP winning is very big news there could be a lead with that then a mention of the Welsh and English elections in the text. --Barryob Vigeur de dessus 21:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I've reworded the entry. —Cuiviénen 23:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I just posted and missed your rewording in the process. I think mine still works, and manages to squeeze in Wales and England as also-news as was suggested below. The Tom 23:29, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Moved from Talk:MainPage at 06:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC):
For what it's worth, "surpasses" should be "passes." Doops | talk 05:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm thinking of changing that to "supplants". Would this work ? --PFHLai 06:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, the real problem is that it's not a particularly 'real' point being made. Neither party has/had a majority; the SNP isn't "in power" at present nor will they necessarily be. All we're talking about is "which party has a plurality of seats." I would just reword the whole blurb to say something like "following the 2007 Scottish Parliament Elections, the SNP will hold a plurality in that body, the first time a party other than Labour has done so." -- this is at once clearer and subtler, I think. Doops | talk 16:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
How about this ?
--PFHLai 06:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I would say that doesn't quite underline the strength of what happened. The Parliament has only been around for 8 years, so saying that it is the first time that it has happened there isn't really much of a point. In reality what occurred on Thursday was Labour losing plurality in Scotland for the first time in almost 60 years - a pretty big deal in a history of Scottish politics that has seen the Labour movement unchallenged for more than a generation. SFC9394 10:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Can I say the SNP supplants Labour ? Is this a better word than surpasses ? --PFHLai 19:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
From what I've gathered, the flight's official status at the moment is "missing and presumed to have crashed" (if such a status exists). But technicalities aside, I endorse putting this up: this would be the deadliest plane crash of this year. AecisBrievenbus 18:11, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm waiting for the article to get a bit longer. -- tariqabjotu 21:46, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
It's still kind of stubby. I would've waited longer, too. But it's already posted by Mets501 a few hours ago. --PFHLai 06:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

May 3

As interesting as I find the topic to be, it really is not up to Criteria 3 standards. It does not seem significantly important on an international scale either. Also, the article linked to has solely a bullet describing the event. So, the short answer is no, I don't believe it should be posted. The great kawa 21:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Not posted. For ITN purposes, adding a link to the wikinews article shouldn't count as adequate updating of a wikipedia article. --PFHLai 05:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
--Mais oui! 01:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
When the elections are finalised, and the official results known, an item can be put forward for consideration. Normal practice is to only place the results of national elections, not that elections are occurring. (and I guess we should include these two to keep the Scottish and Welsh nationalists happy) --Monotonehell 04:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Usually we place an item when the elections are ongoing (i.e. on the day of the elections), and we update the blurb when the result is finalised. I don't see much harm in doing that here as well. It could be added with Operation Crevice and the Winograd Commission, which would mean that the Cricket World Cup, Malaysia and Gliese 581 c would have to be taken down. AecisBrievenbus 13:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
As far as the wording is concerned: I suggest something to the extent of "General elections are held for the Parliament of Scotland and for the National Assembly for Wales." Mentioning the local elections as well might clog up ITN. AecisBrievenbus 13:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I support that proposal. Seems a bit odd to wait for the full result, which may not be available til at least mid Friday. --Mais oui! 18:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
The reason we need to wait for the official result is two fold. Firstly it's a matter of verifiability. Secondly if there's a large period between when the item is first inserted "elections are happening" and then when the results are released "election results are...", the item may very well have been pushed off ITN by the time the update is due. This means we need to place the item twice, as it were. Also elections in democratic countries happen regularly and without fuss, the fact that elections are being held is generally not notable. The results, however, are notable. Unless an election is being held due to some unusually notable circumstances, it should not be included until the results are known. --Monotonehell 01:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Please excuse my ignorance, but is there much international interests ? This seems rather 'local' to me. --PFHLai 05:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
No, I think its a fair point to raise. I would say that within this story there's the case to be made for international relevance on two counts, (a) a potential separatist movement may well gain power in Scotland (I think that was the only real justifiable reason for including the Quebec election a few weeks back), and (b) that the local election results across England when totalled with the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament speak to overall reaction to Tony Blair as he prepares to bow out, akin to midterms in the states. I think--definately getting into the fogs of memory here--that we ran the last round of British locals with flavour text establishing its relevance in much the same fashion as (b) last year. Much as I'd hate to get into some kind of notable-if-team-x-wins-otherwise-not box, I'd say on the (a) front that a SNP victory should be clearcut ITN worthy. The (b) element is a little weaker, IMHO, and I'm not entirely sure if past practice actually bolsters its case via precedent or harms it by demonstrating "British voters punish Blair" isn't exactly new or different.
While injecting this into the notability rules matrix could well screw everything all to hell, I think one thing that should always be kept in mind about elections in anglophone countries with significant Wikipedian bases is that article updates can often tend to be rather substantial and highlight Wikipedia's unpapery ability to keep on top of current events (while, in fairness, also exposing its unfortunate predelictions towards presentism and regional bias). The Tom 05:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Again, another point toward waiting for official results, the outcome will be the notable thing, not the news papery anticipation of an outcome. "Scottish/Welsh voters punish Blair" or similar outcome could well be noteworthy iff that outcome does occur and iff Wikipedians write a decent treatment of the events into one or more articles we can highlight. All of this business as usual news-noise we've been including of late isn't (IMHO) a good direction for ITN. Especially when it's accompanied by a barely updated article. Okay I' heading off on a rant trajectory now, so I'll shush. --Monotonehell 08:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

So now what happens on this front? Also, what about the voting fiasco in Scotland that has left around 100,000 votes discounted? And then there's the Welsh and English elections. Personally, I think we should only go with one or 2 points. Ixistant 18:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Turkish update

I would suggest the Turkey item be updated to something like the following:

"The Grand National Assembly of Turkey approves a motion to hold early elections to resolve the crisis over the recent presidential election, which failed to elect a candidate."

In regards to the statement on May 1 that "in the news is not a news ticker", I would argue that the big pro-secular rallies are now not the most recent or interesting development in this crisis. The new election is. --Jfruh (talk) 14:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

To get news items on ITN, relevant wikiarticles need to be updated, and the article with the bolded link must be well updated with details to go with the headline on MainPage. Thanks, but I'll have to pass for now and wait for more new materials get added to Turkish general election, 2007 and Turkish presidential election, 2007 before I can post new info on MainPage. --PFHLai 05:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Then perhaps the note on the rally should be removed? It just seems weirdly outdated as it is. --Jfruh (talk) 05:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Items on ITN usually move down over time and disappear. I'd rather wait for those articles to get updated. Please be encouraged to update them. Thanks. --PFHLai 05:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
If these little updates are all part of a bigger picture then perhaps there should be some merging of existing mini-articles or the creation of a grand unifying article. One that in an encyclopedic manner ties all the main parts together into a coherent whole (without original research of course). --Monotonehell 08:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

May 1

Pls update the news on Turkish politics on ITN. -- 02:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

In The News is not a news ticker or news service. It's not its function to have news flashes constantly. Additionally, the article in question has only this to say on this point "On 1 May 2007, the constitutional court ruled in favour of the Republican People's Party and declared the first round annulled.". Can we wait until this situation is resolved, and then we can feature articles that cover the entire political crisis from start to finish in ITN.--Monotonehell 04:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
The article barely seems to have been updated and as it stands now, it's just a claim by the Iraqi government based on 'intelligence reports'. Unless there's further confirmation seems premature to me. We all know how many times these people 'die' Nil Einne 11:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)