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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/December 2009

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Archived discussion for December 2009 from Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates.

December 31

ITN candidates for December 31

Ban on the use of Allah by non-Muslims unconstitutional

I'd read this story as a purely domestic dispute within Malaysia (see this BBC story from November for background). The word Allah came into the Malay language from Arabic and, in Arabic, it is used to refer to any monotheistic god, so the High Court was on solid linguistic ground in making its ruling. Physchim62 (talk) 13:05, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Not my choice of ITN... --Tone 14:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Death of Cahal Daly

You're our Ireland expert -- was this guy extraordinarily notable? There's little in his article that makes it seem as if that's the case. I mean, in the U.S., the only religious figure I could see qualifying as notable enough to merit an ITN entry upon a naturally caused death late in life is Billy Graham, who was able to fill stadiums for several days and has known every president since Harry Truman. My thought is that if you live in Ireland and you're unsure about his notability, his death is not ITN-level. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:27, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Support. Definitely notable in Ireland and the UK, if only for his role in (trying to resolve) The Troubles: any blub should mention that. As internationally important as the two naturally dead ex-Presidents we've posted recently, although I'm not sure if that's a very good benchmark. Physchim62 (talk) 02:19, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Weak oppose, at least for now. If international notability can be established I can move to support, but just being well-known in the Great Britain area isn't enough. Wizardman Help review good articles 02:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I would say that he is notable hence the nomination. A bishop alone for three decades, rose to be the top bishop, tributes from all sorts of politicians and even other churches and I think Northern Ireland/the abuse scandals have been covered in detail by the international media. But that doesn't mean everybody would agree. And Physchim62 makes a good point about the recent dead ex-Presidents—Abdurrahman Wahid was in power for less than two years in a comparatively large country, Daly was at the top of his career for three decades in a comparatively small country. And a headline from Australia's Herald Sun"Cardinal credited with famous John Paul II speech dies". --candlewicke 03:16, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Support, (assuming article is updated accordingly for ITN) it's big news in the UK and this guy seems quite significant. HJMitchell You rang? 11:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
The article is updated now, and we also have an obituary in the Boston Globe (USA). Physchim62 (talk) 13:53, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Oppose, among those people we had on ITN recently, I don't think the notability is of the same scale. Large obituaries in newspapers do not necessarily establish level of notability. --Tone 14:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Tone, but draw the opposite conclusion. I think Cardinal Daly is more notable than the ex-presidents of Venezuela and Indonesia, as he obviously did more than "just his job". We really must take another look at how we post deaths. Physchim62 (talk) 16:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Another issue here is the quality of the article. The two presidents had much more elaborate articles written and one of the unofficial guidelines in such cases is that the article should be extensive. From reading the article, I can't say I find much reasons why we should put it on ITN. --Tone 16:44, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
He is to lie in state if that helps. Lying in state is more formal than lying in repose according to Wikipedia. Others sources now available include Taiwan News and The Washington Post If the article is improved would that be good enough? --candlewicke 17:10, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I have no problems with recognizing him as a prominent figure. However, as long as the article is not in a great shape (biography and works paragraphs substantially expanded), I can't support ITN inclusion. Then, maybe. --Tone 17:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I have done some work on this, let me know if it's in better condition. It is being reported by sources in several languages now, examples include Dutch, French, Polish, Reuters América Latina, The New York Times, Italian(?), Portuguese(?), and another one which might be Switzerland. --candlewicke 23:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Suggest: Cahal Daly, a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church and critic of the Irish Republican Army (IRA), dies in Belfast at the age of 93. --candlewicke 23:15, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Well? Anyone? It's nearly 24 hours since anyone said something. --candlewicke 20:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Oppose His death wasn't all that unexpected, and from the article I don't see how he was a prominent figure in The Troubles. A lot of people criticized the IRA during this time. --PlasmaTwa2 02:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure if many were Catholic bishops of his ranking. His death is being reported around the world. He is lying in state. --candlewicke 04:11, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The word "Troubles" appear thrice in the article (once in the references) and the only one where it has context was that when he was "based in Belfast." –Howard the Duck 04:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure that there were plenty of Catholic bishops who didn't like the Troubles, as well as oodles of international persons who's role in society matches or exceeds that of Daly. --PlasmaTwa2 05:48, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
What about the Pope? --candlewicke 09:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The Pope is always sad when a cardinal dies. –Howard the Duck 11:53, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Icesave compensation

Iceland has finally agreed to cough up the money for its deposit insurance obligations after its spectacular financial collapse in October 2008. Granted, the €3.8bn represents 40% of Iceland's GDP, but they have until 2024 to pay it all. The article (which still needs updating, but otherwise is in fairly good shape) is Icesave dispute. Physchim62 (talk) 18:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, scrub that nomination for the moment, the President of Iceland is refusing to sign the Bill into law, so it will have to go to a referendum unless he changes his mind. Physchim62 (talk) 12:44, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Siegfried Sassoon papers

Suggesting the above, which was carried by the BBC and Reuters ((BBC) (Reuters)), and I've updated the article, and there is a substantial paragraph there on the fund-raising campaign. The news was announced on 17 December, but I only just read about it now, and it was a six-month fundraising campaign, so it is not news that is as 'immediate' as others. It was also carried by the Daily Mail on 18 December (Daily Mail), which has extra details I will add to the article now. I added an entry about this to the Current Events Portal for 31st December (because that is when I read about it), but it might get moved to the 17th December. Not sure how 'late' news items like this are handled, but I thought it was something different that might be of interest. There are some pictures of Sassoon that could be used as well. Carcharoth (talk) 16:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, not sure how often universities acquire such papers but a combination of Siegfried Sassoon and Cambridge University might be famous enough. --candlewicke 21:30, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Oh no, the 17th... the bottom item at the moment as seen here is The Wuhan–Guangzhou High-Speed Railway, the world's fastest commercial train service, is opened in the People's Republic of China, dated December 26. I doubt they'll post this one. --candlewicke 21:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree that it's come too late. We might make allowances for ongoing events, but this is effectively a one-off so we'd look a little silly calling it "news". Physchim62 (talk) 22:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I will obviously have to be more on the ball than this for news, but if something else pops up in the news about this (like another announcement related to it), would it be acceptable to recycle this proposed entry? Out of general interest, when is "too late" for an ITN entry. Is there a definite cut-off, or does it vary? A set number of days, or the date of the current earliest entry on the template, or on the current events portal (which shows about 4-5 days of previous events, I think). And it is not really a one-off event - it made the news on three separate occasions during the six-month fundraising campaign. It is just that the actual successful acquisition is the logical point for most news coverage. Carcharoth (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


This may sound stupid, but since this is the first rollover in Wikipedia history, is there any way to acknowledge that a decade is even changing? That's like 1 century in Internet time.. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Most of the world celebrates New Year? In fact, this is the main event of the day. Actually, I'd support something like that if a good article existed... --Tone 15:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
How about the eclipse? "For the first time in more than 350 years, New Year's Eve will coincide with a lunar eclipse". Or the blue moon - "For only the second time in nearly two decades, December will end with Earth illuminated by a "Blue Moon". Are these events visible around the world? --candlewicke 21:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
"For the first time in world history, Earth enters the 2010s." --PlasmaTwa2 00:43, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Not true!!! (see Hebrew calendar, Thai solar calendar...) :P Physchim62 (talk) 02:25, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Lithuania has to shut down it's only nuclear power plant as a condition to join the EU

Chernobyl-style plant supplies almost all of the country's electricty. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 11:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose until they actually shut it down. Ks0stm (TCG) 11:30, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Okay, wait 8.5 hours then. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:37, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, "when they actually shut it down" is 2100 UTC today – just time to do the necessary updates don't you think? Support. Shutting down a nuclear power station (permanently) is not a common event anyway, and this one is particularly significant because of the circumstances. Physchim62 (talk) 12:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind then, Support. Ks0stm (TCG) 13:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Described as the only one in the Baltic region. --candlewicke 13:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, but it is best if the [citation needed] tags in the article are dealt with before posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support but needs an update. The article does not mention closure. --Tone 15:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, but probably the hook needs some rewording. Right now it reads like there was some kind of safety incident with this exact palnt why the plant was (temporarily) closed. It should be specified that the plant was closed permanently (finally) and not because there was something wrong with this particular plant, but because of safety concerns related to this type reactors in general. Also, maybe it could be more precise to say that the last reactor of the plant was shut down, because the first reactor was shut down already five years ago. Beagel (talk) 18:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
how about "is shut down after 22 years in service". I don't think we need all the minute details in an ITN blurb, just something which is factually correct. Physchim62 (talk) 19:48, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Sounds good. And if anything went according to the plan, it is already shut down (2100 GMT). Beagel (talk) 21:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we should use an obscure term like "RBMK" in an ITN item, even if wikilinked. I would say something like "the EU's only nuclear power plant of the same type as Chernobyl." For brevity, I think we can use the abbreviation "EU" and "Chernobyl" as shorthand for the CNPP. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Note that I've kept the link to RBMK because I think the lead of that article is clear enough for anyone who clicks on it; indeed, it makes the link between the two plants far clearer than the alternative link to Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. Ignalina is not an exact twin of Chernobyl, but I think "Chernobyl-type" is fair. Physchim62 (talk) 03:54, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Looks good. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Support. Wizardman Help review good articles 04:58, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I oppose the wording "Chernobyl-type". All RBMK reactors were changed considerably after the accident, so this wording is misleading. Let's just use "RBMK"-type, since it's more exact. Offliner (talk) 12:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Finland shooting

Nom - At least three people are being killed by a gunman in Espoo after a shooting. Links: ( - TouLouse (talk) 10:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. The radio just said at least four have been killed now. --candlewicke 11:01, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
What's significant about 4 people killed when killings of that number are (albeit not common) not infrequent? Ks0stm (TCG) 11:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
This is Finland though, not the United States. --candlewicke 11:46, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Sadly though, Finland has seen quite a number of shootings as well these past years. Oppose, because it would be a case of systemic bias. Similar events in the third world don't make it onto ITN.sephia karta | di mi 16:48, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support HonouraryMix (talk) 12:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support once the article has been expanded (currently one paragraph) Modest Genius talk 12:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. --Sky4t0k (talk) 12:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Non-notable multiple murder. Put madmen and guns together and the results are sadly predictable. Physchim62 (talk) 12:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I've thought it over, and I'm leaning weak oppose per Physchim62. Ks0stm (TCG) 13:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Eh, a sixth body has been found. I didn't even know there was a fifth! --candlewicke 13:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. I believe this is notable enough. It is on the headlines around the world. Offliner (talk) 13:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
If a 6th body has indeed been found, I would support. Ks0stm (TCG) 13:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
6th body is the gunman himself. He shot himself and, as well as the 4 in the mall, his ex-girlfriend. [1] HonouraryMix (talk) 15:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Support but needs expansion. --Tone 15:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting now. Feel free to modify the blurb. --Tone 16:37, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. If the Northern Illinois University shooting didn't make the cut in 2008, then neither should this. There needs to be some sort of standards for spree shootings, because they happen a lot, and including this shooting because it is in Europe, but not inclduing a shooting of equal deaths that occurs in the U.S. is very biased. Abog (talk) 00:39, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to see the ITN discussion for this item, if ever it was nominated. –Howard the Duck 03:56, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Here's the discussion: link. The argument that U.S. events of the same magnitude shouldn't be included because they happen more frequently doesn't really hold much water with me, since the U.S. is a much larger country with more people. After all, a shooting that kills 6 people and receives international news coverage in the U.S. is the same as one that kills 6 people and receives international news coverage in Finland. I don't see why the location discrimination. A deadly shooting is a deadly shooting. Abog (talk) 05:03, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd agree that the argument doesn't hold much water, but not all shooting sprees that kill 6 people are created equally, either. If it happened in Iraq or Afghanistan, the shooting spress must kill 20 or more.
(Thinking about it, the bad guys at Iraq and Afghanistan don't shoot people up, they blow themselves up. Shooting sprees have relatively fewer casualties than suicide/car bombings.) –Howard the Duck 05:29, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Well of course, since those countries are currently war-torn and high casualty events can be expected daily. We're not talking about Afghanistan or Iraq though. We're talking about two Western nations that don't have a war raging on their soils everyday. Finland and the U.S. are relatively equal in terms of economics, education, being "Western" nations, etc, and wars are not occurring on their soils everyday. An insane madman going and killing 6 people in a school or shopping mall in either country should thus be treated equally. Thus, we need to have some standards so that this bias does not happen. Example: When someone goes and kills at least 5 people in a shooting spree in any country where war (including gureilla warfare) is not currently being waged and it makes headlines on at least 3 continents and has a Wikipedia article, it can be featured on ITN. If it fails to meet that criteria, it cannot be included. This is just an example though. If people want to make to up the criteria to 10 deaths, or 4 continents, or whatever, go ahead. Abog (talk) 19:13, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually, a long time ago, I did come up with this "reported on x continents proposal" but nobody cared. Nowadays, we have this pathetic excuse of "international-ness" such as "Irish story was reported on a British newspaper" or an "American story reported in a Canadian TV station" it's getting funny. –Howard the Duck 12:47, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Patrick Stewart being knighted

Patrick Stewart, who played Captain Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: The Next Generation and Professor X in X-men, was knighted. ----J4\/4 <talk> 04:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose, sorry. Congratulations to the bloke, but it's not significant enough for ITN- it'd be flooded if we reported every knighthood or similar award. HJMitchell You rang? 04:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Are there many similar awards to knighthoods though? --candlewicke 09:04, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
How many people get knighted a year? Ks0stm (TCG) 11:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
How often does it happen? Once? Twice? Either way they seem to be highlighting him more than the recipients of the lesser awards. --candlewicke 11:48, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
In the UK, there are two lists a year, at New Year's and for the Queen's Official Birthday in June. This time round, there were 21 knighthoods (including one KCB) and 6 dameships (the female equivalent, the British establishment never has been very up on gender equality). Physchim62 (talk) 12:22, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, because otherwise we'd end up having to mention every single knighthood (at least the ones with articles) Modest Genius talk 12:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
No, we won't end up having to mention every single knighthood, since we can decide about each case separately as we've done until now. This news is a bit anglophone-centric, but I believe that Stewart's role in Star Trek is well-known around the world. I don't think we've had anything Star Trek -related on ITN for a long time. The article also seems nice, therefore, weak support. Offliner (talk) 13:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Support: Patrick Stewart was the lead actor on one of the best TV shows ever. Also, note that, although many other people were knighted as well, the news reports focus largely on Patrick Stewart rather than the others. --Jean-Luc Pikachu (talk) 13:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. Several people receive this honour and we don't feature them on ITN. Though Stewart's work is great, I don't think adding Star Trek balance to ITN is necessary. --Tone 15:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Several people were knighted, but the news reports have focused almost exclusively on Patrick Stewart, and have for the most part ignored everyone else. --Jean-Luc Pikachu (talk) 15:53, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 16:04, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Question: would anyone support the New Year Honours List as an item, of which this would form a part along with members of Status Quo and Jenson Button since we have an interesting array of people getting honours. HJMitchell You rang? 16:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I would support a generic story about the New Year's Honours list: the article is New Year Honours 2010. The article needs some work to mention the reaction to list (eg, Patrick Stewart, and the fact that no MPs have been honoured). It would be a reminder to editors to update the relevant articles. Physchim62 (talk) 17:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll take a look! If I can make it decent before I get drunk (hey, it's new year!) I will! HJMitchell You rang? 17:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd support, but the only prose on the article is the lead. I'm not sure if that's enough to meet ITN's standards. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 17:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
C'mon, DC, have I ever let you down? Just give me a chance! HJMitchell You rang? 17:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
OK, taking a look at it, there is very little prose, but it's a list rather than an article. Now, I can add some stuff about media reception to the honours to the list but I think it would look out of place. Trouble is, there is no decent article since everything redirects to a list. I don't think I'm going to be able to do this today. HJMitchell You rang? 18:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
But putting an annual event on ITN, as this would be in that case? I don't think there was anything special in comparisson with last years... --Tone 14:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

December 30

ITN candidates for December 30

Death of Abdurrahman Wahid

  • Former president of Indonesia, the fourth most populous country in the world. –Howard the Duck 14:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support TouLouse (talk) 15:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Blurb - Former President of Indonesia, Abdurrahman Wahid dies at the age of 69. TouLouse (talk) 15:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Expanded details on his death. Sources have been vague on the cause, and the BBC also reports that the cause has not yet been confirmed. Also suggest linking "President" to President of Indonesia instead. Arsonal (talk) 17:19, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support- former head of state is worthy of ITN. HJMitchell You rang? 17:08, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support former head of state, very significant figure who took over after Suharto. And Indonesia is a large country. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 17:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting. Photo can be added as well, I suppose. --Tone 18:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
hello, why the Iran protest (see below), with 4 supports, haven' t been added to the ITN template while this proposal -with 3 supports- have been added ? Yug (talk) 18:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, that better? :) --candlewicke 20:25, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Nirvana888 (talk) 20:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Economy of the People's Republic of China

China to Surpass Japan to Become 2nd Largest Economy in the world. [2] [3] [4] --Lanolamua (talk) 09:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

The newspapers (resources are not crystal balls, This is fact my friend. :) just the offical account give out once a year. --Lanolamua (talk) 10:18, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We should add it once it has happened and has been confirmed. Offliner (talk) 09:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as not a particularly significant event. Total (rather than per capita) GDP is the economists' equivalent of penis length   a worthy subject of academic study, and also the subject of much childish boasting. Physchim62 (talk) 12:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support --Before2012 (talk) 12:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
China Is Now The World’s Second Largest Economy --Naloenal (talk) 12:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Please read the url '[...]china-is-almost-certainly-worlds-second-largest-economy[...]'. The title, China Is Now The World’s Second Largest Economy, is misleading. Anyway, oppose.  Cargoking  talk  12:36, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

─────────────── Oppose. China's economic gdp has already overtaken Japan in the later half (H2) of 2009 according to most experts.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gothic4ben (talkcontribs) 14:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. This look like WP:CRYSTAL and there is very little substantial fact, rather lots of speculation. Besides, it was going to happen, it was a case of when and we have had a lot of China related stories on ITN lately. HJMitchell You rang? 17:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose While it is a pretty significant event in geoeconomics, I would prefer to post something once we get confirmation from more authoritative sources such as the IMF or World Bank. Also, note that nowhere did NBS say that China surpassed Japan but that it will surpass it soon than expected. Nirvana888 (talk) 17:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Mordechai Vanunu

From yesterday's P:CE. This one seems a bit strange to me, especially given that the Israeli Supreme Court was about to rule on a request to relax Vanunu's parole conditions to let him live abroad. A controversial subject, especially within Israel. The article isn't wonderful, but is well referenced. Physchim62 (talk) 01:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Interesting, but I'm not sure about international significance? HJMitchell You rang? 02:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Well he has been a well known figure, especially due to his reports related to Israeli nuclear weapons program. Quite well known across the world for that. He is also know for being kidnapped by Israeli Intelligence operatives from Italy. --yousaf465' 04:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
After reading about him, I realize he is fairly significant. However, the current story (two days of house arrest) isn't significant. Oppose. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 05:11, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
That is your take than. I'm neutral on it. Not opposing nor supporting.--yousaf465' 07:46, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd agree with you if it was two days house arrest and end-of-story: however, the house arrest (according to the BBC) is simply his bail conditions while he waits to appear in court. Physchim62 (talk) 12:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Well then let's wait til the court proceedings have finished. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 15:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I concur. Well put DC. HJMitchell You rang? 17:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

South Sudan independence referendum

Too local? Not final enough? It seems like a significant step to me, and in a country which doesn't always get the best of press. Physchim62 (talk) 01:47, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll support if and when the referendum takes place, but not now. HJMitchell You rang? 02:05, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Physchim, there needs to be an accordingly-updated article flagged as part of any candidature. I imagine it would be this article, which honestly isn't in tip-top shape at the moment. With a bit of massaging to bring fully up-to-date, though, I think it would merit posting. The Tom (talk) 02:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd say wait til the referendum happens. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 04:38, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Well I think we should wait till the referendum. That is till Jan 2011.--yousaf465' 04:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Iran violent protests and crackdown

Note: These protests are a different event from last week's Ayatola's death. Need a specific announcement. Please improve my wording if needed.

Support, need a specific announcement. That's a major event, like last year's Greek riots, or 2005 French ones. Yug (talk) 07:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Qualified support. Riots leading to multiple deaths are pretty rare events anywhere: apparently, these are the first deaths in Iranian riots for six months. I would guess we would have pressure to post a political riot which ended in even a single death if it occured in Europe or North America. However, the article to update is surely 2009 Ashura Iran anti-government protest rather than the more general Timeline of the 2009 Iranian election protests, and that former article needs a little bit of work doing on it before I could fully support. Physchim62 (talk) 12:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support--Sky4t0k (talk) 14:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. There's been a lot going on Iran lately and we haven't featured very much of it. Ideally, the blurb should recognise this is part of ongoing events, but there's only so much room on the template. HJMitchell You rang? 17:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on improving 2009 Ashura Iran anti-government protest but it's in a bit of a state so it may take me a while. HJMitchell You rang? 17:37, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

How about:

(December 27). Physchim62 (talk) 18:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

    • I like that, but perhaps change the second part of that to "with at least 8 15 dead and 1500 arrested since December 27." to make it flow better. Ks0stm (TCG) 20:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I've seen figures from 500 to 3000 for the number of the arrests: does anyone have a preference? (I'm fine with not mentioning Ashura). Physchim62 (talk) 21:28, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
(NY times) saids 1500 2 days ago. --Yug (talk) 10:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

How about:

...or something similar- wording's not perfect. HJMitchell You rang? 21:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Article now appears to be fit and ready for ITN due to the work of myself and (primarily) CordeliaNaismith, though any constructive criticism is invited! HJMitchell You rang? 00:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Looks ok now. Posting. --Tone 12:27, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

December 29

ITN candidates for December 29

Akmal Shaikh

The article appears to be in a good shape, although it will have to be updated after his execution. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
I just realized this is another China-related item. My goodness. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Maybe so, but China is a big place- one sixth of the world's population lives there (if A level geography serves). It's also UK-related and it's big news here- at the time of writing it's lead story on BBC News, The Times, The Guardian, The Daily Telegraph. I'll support. HJMitchell You rang? 02:07, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
One fifth I believe, not to mention the second largest economy. I think this is big news in Britain but not that significant in the big scheme of things. (talk) 05:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Wow!!! :-O If you don't mind I will carefully copy and paste what I was just intending to type and you can count that as a support.
    ====Execution/release/other new or unexpected development in the case of Akmal Shaikh====
    "I've noticed this case has been getting great coverage internationally for a few days, for example CNN, Jakarta Post, Gulfnews, The Irish Times, The Sydney Morning Herald, Indian Express, CBC News. This apart from it involving China and the UK. He was arrested more than two years ago. Appeals have been made to have him released by Gordon Brown and Stephen Fry among others. I also see the article now says "If the execution goes ahead, Shaikh will be the first national of a European Union country to be executed in China in over 50 years". ITN has previously had international cases involving death sentences, including Joshua French and Tjostolv Moland in September. --candlewicke 02:04, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the support but why "wow"? :) I had listed this item on the future events page a week ago... I suppose you hadn't noticed back then... --BorgQueen (talk) 02:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
No. I've just been over there now to add this Free Trade Area arrangement for Friday so didn't see it. --candlewicke 02:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Support once we know the outcome. This has gotten quite alot of coverage, as mentioned above. I've seen it on several American sites today. It would also be the first execution of a citizen of an EU country in 50 years in China, I believe. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 03:09, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Support I think this is notable to be on ITN. Python eggs (talk) 03:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
    • Executed. --candlewicke 04:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
    • Oppose. I just don't see why an execution is worthy of posting. I mean many executions are carried by countries around the world; many of which are quite sad, including in China. (talk) 05:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
      • True but this has attracted international attention and they already know he is dead in Australia. Article is up to date with events. --candlewicke 05:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, sure then, my thinking was that this was a not really exceptional individual convicted of a non-exceptional crime (heroin smuggling). My guess is that because it got such big coverage in the UK, that it got filtered to a few presses in other countries. Anyway, I am cool with this since there's been a 50 years gap which makes it quite rare, as long as not every western individual execution case in a foreign country gets posted. (talk) 05:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Nope, I think the last case was (as referred to above) Joshua French and Tjostolv Moland in September (and there were two of them). --candlewicke 05:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Executions of foreign nationals (outside of wartime situations) are pretty rare anyway, but this one has received a lot of international attention. Apart from the French/Moland case (where the sentence was finally commuted), the only other recent execution I can think of which was so newsworthy was José Medellín (a case which had constitutional implications in the U.S.): that one didn't go up, possibly because all eyes were on the start of the Beijing Olympics at the time. Physchim62 (talk) 12:36, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Error. Was going to post this under the "errors" page but thought it would receive more attention here. There are serious issues with this item. I personally believe this is not even notable, especially compared to something like Liu Xiaobo, which I notice has been relegated off ITN perhaps due to the overabundance of China-related stories on ITN. As for the errors - one cannot be an "EU National". The European Union is not a "nation" in any sense, but rather a political union of various nation-states. You can be an "EU Citizen", but not a "EU National". This is not to mention that saying he is the "first EU national" to be executed in China in over 50 years is also incorrect. If the EU did not even exist 50 years ago, how can he be the "first" in fifty years? Colipon+(Talk) 08:34, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Please fix the article first, after that I will be happy to fix the blurb accordingly. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:49, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Just fixed article to say he was the first citizen of a "European Country" to be executed in China in fifty years. Although there may well have been Russian nationals executed in China in the past fifty years and one could debate whether they can be considered "European". Colipon+(Talk) 08:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Also just checked references. Nothing says conclusively that this 'EU 50 years' claim is true. So please take these superlative claims off the main page ASAP, as news sites are probably going to feed off of Wikipedia and report the same thing. I would say take the "EU-50 years" thing out entirely. Colipon+(Talk) 09:13, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Pehaps you'd prefer "first EU citizen ever to be executed", which would be pedantically correct, but highly misleading. Physchim62 (talk) 12:36, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
We should write something about Japan Japan ready to cancel Iraq debt . --Before2012 (talk) 13:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Ship rescued

Support--Before2012 (talk) 10:50, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. This sort of thing happens virtually every week. In fact, the sources appear to be referring to two different ships, both of which have been released. What would be unusual would be if a ransom hadn't been paid. And the pirates have hijacked two more to replace them... Physchim62 (talk) 12:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, dozens of ships per year are ransomed from somali pirates. Modest Genius talk 19:48, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

100+ vehicle crash

Oppose First, its rather tabloid-ish. Second, we currently have two blurbs relating to China, and are likely to add a third shortly (see Akmal Shaikh above). Third, no article exists. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 03:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

One million articles on German Wikipedia

  • I was wondering why there is no box or something like about this Wikipedia milestone on the Main Page ( --bender235 (talk) 14:12, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Jealousy. --candlewicke 19:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
These things get placed in the Wikipedia Signpost, as they are more of interest to active editors than our general (English-language) readership. Physchim62 (talk) 01:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree it's better situated in signpost.--yousaf465' 04:37, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Suicide Attack on Ashura Procession

Support. Death toll seems to have risen to 30 now. "The attacker had been walking amidst a procession with tens of thousands of people". --candlewicke 16:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. We have 2009 Ashura Iran anti-government protest but probably this is not the best article - a separate would suit better. --Tone 17:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Support--Sky4t0k (talk) 14:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment -- I think this item has enough support and significance but it still wasn't posted, might I ask why? Taqi Haider (talk) 09:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment -- could it be suicide bombing fatigue. if we post each and every suicide bombing in Pakistan on ITN then thats all there will be. the article was created though 2009 Karachi bombing just my 2 cents .Wikireader41 (talk) 21:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

December 28

ITN candidates for December 28

Death of Maryam Babangida

None of which explains why she's significant outside Nigeria. Oppose ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 05:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Was she a first lady? I'm not sure, but I don't think being a first lady is all that important. --PlasmaTwa2 05:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per DC unless someone can elaborate as to her international significance... HJMitchell You rang? 14:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Because Africa is quite a large continent. And she is considered important to Africa, improved life for rural women, etc. "She dictated the fashion pace for Nigerian ladies during her time and she literally invented the office of the First Lady in the country". This one is from Ghana. It seems to have affected a lot of people in Africa. There are so many more articles than usual dedicated to her. --candlewicke 16:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose --Before2012 (talk) 18:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Those sources work for me, she seems a very prominent lady and news sources all over the place are reporting her death. HJMitchell You rang? 18:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support per HJMitchell. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:33, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I understand the desire to combat "systemic bias" by including a nationally significant figure from a developing country who largely escapes the eye of "major" English-language media in the U.S. and UK. However, I don't know if ITN is the place to combat systemic bias, since we're supposed to be featuring Wikipedia content of particular quality. There's nothing particularly wrong with the Maryam Babangida article, but regretfully it reads much like an obituary of a Rotary Club president in a smalltown newspaper. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
It can be improved. There are loads of reports about her life and death, much more than would be expected from an ordinary death. --candlewicke 18:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support something like: Former first lady of Nigeria Maryam Babangida, who worked to improve women rights, dies of ovarian cancer. Prominent figure in the country and continent. Grsz11 18:51, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Mentioned by Xinhua now as well. I wonder why the American media is ignoring this since she died there... --candlewicke 18:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Will the Wall Street Journal do? I've yet to find anything from CNN, New York Times etc though... HJMitchell You rang? 19:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, simply does meet the death criteria. Simply being well known is not enough. I question that she is important throughout Africa, although she seems to have been well known in English-speaking West Africa. But what did she actually do? Nothing particularly spectacular, as far as I can tell, apart from being married to an army general who pulled off a military coup. Bog-standard first lady, not significant enough for an ITN obituary. Physchim62 (talk) 19:33, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
She was President of the Nigerian Army Officers Wives Association (NAOWA), chairperson of the Better Life for Rural Women, a writer, some sort of fashion icon, and one quote "It was during her twenty-month presidency [of the NAOWA] that her leadership qualities were first unfolded to the public as she mobilised her colleagues to embark aggressively on public spirited ventures which included building schools, clinics, women's multipurpose training centres and child day care centres". She did all this and yet she was criticised by feminists (according to her article). --candlewicke 19:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Quote from Senate President David Mark: "I feel a sense of personal loss, a loss to Nigeria and to (the) African continent". --candlewicke 20:06, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't see how any of this makes her different from any other former first lady from any other country, besides Hilary Clinton, who's currently Secretary of State. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 21:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - per above. Connormah (talk) 22:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as well per above. Not an overly significant figure. Wizardman Help review good articles 06:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmong refugees

Long running controversy that seems to be coming to a head. The article is in good shape. Physchim62 (talk) 01:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, and the article does look in good shape. Ks0stm (TCG) 05:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
"against their will" is redundant here, given that they are asylum seekers. Should be removed. Otherwise, I support this on ITN. --Tone 15:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:51, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support--Before2012 (talk) 18:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


Iran protests

Any article updates available? --Tone 15:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Anti-regime demonstrations of 26th and 27th of December 2009 in Iran, but Oppose. Nothing new or breaking here. Grsz11 18:52, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
NOTE: Martial law declared(see below). Is that new in Iran? -- (talk) 03:15, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Iran martial law

Support. --candlewicke 03:00, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Yug (talk) 03:49, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Support--Sky4t0k (talk) 14:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

December 27

ITN candidates for December 27

Cao Cao

Any thoughts? --PlasmaTwa2 21:24, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Well if that isn't an ITN I don't know what is. Support. --candlewicke 22:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, seems to have wide interest. The update needs some work doing on it, and we should add "(died 220 CE)" to the blurb. Physchim62 (talk) 00:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support but only when the article is brought into shape- it has precious few references for large chunks of info... HJMitchell You rang? 02:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Agree with above. Article needs significant expansion and references.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. sephia karta | di mi 13:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when more citations are added. Btw, it is best if we avoid phrases like "believed to be" on Main Page, per WP:WEASEL. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Seems it is confirmed with enough confidence that it was his. I would be splendid to have some free photos but I'll support even without that. Ready to post? --Tone 15:53, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, a pro-China biase at the moment, 3/6 items in the current ITN ;-) --Tone 16:15, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree. I suppose we need something from Europe or America soon... --BorgQueen (talk) 16:17, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
The new pipeline will benefit China as well... I suggest first round of election in Croatia for balance, it's fine now. --Tone 16:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
A blurb for the Croatian election please? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to comment below:, at the moment, the vague feeling is that we shouldn't post the Croatian election. Physchim62 (talk) 19:12, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Hehe yeah I suppose this week is pretty ITNewsy for China. Guess it really attests to China's emergence in our everyday lives.
Support--Before2012 (talk) 18:05, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Cao Cao is one of the most important man in Three Kingdoms period, and has significant impact to the Chinese culture. Python eggs (talk) 22:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Within the next four months, some more high-speed rail lines are set to open in China. Don't know if it will be considered significant given the amount of attention Wuhan-Guangzhou has received. Colipon+(Talk) 02:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Korea-UAE nuclear plant deal

Oppose we don't post all of GE's government contracts on ITN. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 05:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Thank you, DC. Well put. HJMitchell You rang? 18:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose--Before2012 (talk) 18:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


Uzbekistan holds the Uzbekistani parliamentary election, 2009 to elect members of the Supreme Assembly of Uzbekistan - Dumelow (talk) 12:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Polls are closed in Uzbekistan now. The elections were a farce, of course, with all parties supporting the dictatorship there, but the article is in reasonable shape. Turnout 87.8%. Results are expected Monday evening Uzbekistan time (UTC+5). Physchim62 (talk) 19:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
It seems like there will be a second round in 41 districts (out of 135), probably on 10 January. Physchim62 (talk) 18:42, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Also the first round of the Croatian presidential election, 2009–2010 which could see a president elected (if needed second round is on Jan 10 2010) - Dumelow (talk) 16:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Croatian polls closed as well, results expected at the end of this evening (CET, UTC+1). A second round seems almost inevitable with 12 candidates in the running. Physchim62 (talk) 19:14, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
There will be a second round for sure. However, it is not completely clear, who will go there (3 candidates close for 2nd place) so we should wait a little before posting any outcome. --Tone 20:06, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Do we usually publish first round results of two-round elections? I'd be tempted to wait until 10 January. Physchim62 (talk) 20:54, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Good question. I remember we used to post first round results but I don't remember any such case recently... I am fine with any of the two options. --Tone 21:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
There are 22 countries that use the two-round system to elect their presidents, including such "biggies" as Brazil and France, so it's the sort of question that should arise about four times a year. Not reporting first round results is more consistent with the policy of only posting election stories once the results are in. Mind you, I think ITN has become too dogmatic on applying the "no official results, no posting" rule, most recently in the German legislative elections (the opposition had accepted defeat a full six hours before the results were posted on ITN). We could always allow first round results that are particularly notable (eg, French presidential election, 2002) while keeping them out of WP:ITNR. Physchim62 (talk) 21:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd say wait until the second round results are known, then I'll support. HJMitchell You rang? 18:18, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

First possible observation of dark matter

Was this proposed? Nergaal (talk) 04:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Such discoveries must first be published in a peer-reviewed journal, so we should wait. --Tone 10:17, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I noticed it passing through, but it is a very preliminary result. Take this quote from the BBC story: "While this result is consistent with dark matter, it is also consistent with backgrounds." Physchim62 (talk) 11:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when we actually have incontrovertible proof of dark matter but "possible" and "preliminary" do not belong on ITN IMHO. HJMitchell You rang? 12:06, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
It is possible, but not confirmed. So on those grounds, oppose. Btw, I had to read the Simple English article to understand what 'dark matter' is. Some normal English articles could be a bit more articulate, but that's not for discussing here.  Cargoking  talk  23:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Not yet. "So we can make no claim to have discovered WIMPS," the research team said . -SusanLesch (talk) 23:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Dennis Brutus

  • Important? "Mr Brutus was an anti-apartheid activist who was jailed at Robben Island with Nelson Mandela in the mid-1960s. His activism led Olympic officials to ban South Africa from competition from 1964 until apartheid ended nearly 30 years later". --candlewicke 02:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
My view on the deaths of older people by natural causes is they should only be included if the person is of extraordinary notability -- such as Mandela himself. I don't know if this gentleman, important as he may have been, meets that standard. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:48, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
We definitely need clearer, tighter death criteria. Unfortunately, I must oppose this one. HJMitchell You rang? 12:03, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose because the gentleman was 85. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Urban Meyer announces resignation due to health concerns

  • ([7]). Shocking news from the world of college football today as the most-successful coach of the 2000s, with 95 wins and 18 losses, announces he is leaving the job completely unexpectedly. It's worth remembering that college football is nearly the second-most-popular sport in the U.S. ([8]) and that coaches are especially important as they call the plays and recruit the players. Admittedly this news will have little impact outside North America, but will be of interest to far more readers than many recent ITN items, deserving as those other items may be. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:48, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Nearly the second-most-popular ? (By the way, I clicked that link and I got something about the discovery of dark matter which may be more useful). --candlewicke 05:23, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Fixed the link. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 07:38, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Football, a sport no one else cares about. And it's not even professional football. -- tariqabjotu 06:37, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
My view is that it doesn't matter who doesn't care about something; it should only matter if a lot of people do care about it. Most ITN items are not of interest to most people (Venezuelan presidents, anyone?). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 07:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Not notable outside of the United States, and even there it has limited notability. --PlasmaTwa2 09:09, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Plasma, you took the words right out of my mouth (metaphorically!). HJMitchell You rang? 11:57, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Not even close. Yes it's big sports news in the US but it's not really that big of a deal for people who don't follow the sport. The only manager whose retirement I would support as a notable event would be Alex Ferguson.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Who? OK, I've heard of him, but be honest: How many Americans outside of the relatively small soccer-following crowd in the country have? If we can't have Urban Meyer (or the eventual (?) retirement of Joe Paterno) because they're relatively unknown outside of the US, shouldn't we also disallow Alex Ferguson on the grounds that hardly anyone inside the US has heard of him? And that's not even to get into the argument that American-football coaches actually control the game while soccer coaches don't really do anything once the whistle blows except substitute a couple of players over 90 minutes. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 15:48, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Wait for a certain game on January 7, 2010. That might have a shot.
P.S. How about this guy when he retires? ITN snub too? –Howard the Duck 16:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
What "game" is this? --candlewicke 16:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
This. –Howard the Duck 16:17, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Nope, never heard of it, will have to look into it in more detail. Thanks for giving an advance warning. :) --candlewicke 16:20, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Oh the "Bowl finale", that's on ITNR anyway. --candlewicke 16:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Nope, it's not "that bowl finale. –Howard the Duck 16:23, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Oh I see. There's more than one? --candlewicke 16:26, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
This one is for college football. –Howard the Duck 16:31, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
And is college football related to American football? --candlewicke 16:37, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
The game played by the colleges and professionals (NFL) is the same -- American football, only that there are some minor rules variations. (I think it's on defensive formations, I'm not sure on that, though.) The best college players play on the NFL after they graduate. –Howard the Duck 16:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
So it's like some sort of league for reserve teams full of underdeveloped players? --candlewicke 16:46, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
No, it's the best 18-23 year old players, who play before fanatical crowds of up to 112,000. It's kind of a big tradition and a way of life in much of the country. Famous college coaches like Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden are probably better-known than the governors of their respective states, and the Heisman Trophy for the best college-football player is the best-known individual honor in American sports. People travel around the country following their favorite teams and paint the interior of their houses in Alabama Crimson Tide or Tennessee Volunteers or whatever colors. There are even coffins you can be buried in with the colors and logos of college-football teams. The college-football championship Howard mentioned is the 2nd biggest sports event of the year in the US by average TV viewership. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 16:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Sounds quite big. --candlewicke 16:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
It got press here when a player Meyer was coaching was almost aborted here. –Howard the Duck 17:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
As for this item, we should perhaps lay it off. I'd say Pete Carroll is bigger, and he'd won't be added here if he retires, unless he tragically dies by being chopped by a shillelagh by naughty Notre Dame fans. I'd rather watch the debate on the BCS National Championship Game (not that followed elsewhere, maybe in Canada) and the Men's Division I Basketball Championship Game (the basketball event seems to have a more "international" following). –Howard the Duck 17:10, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Aborted? --candlewicke 17:12, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Aborted as in Roe v. Wade. –Howard the Duck 17:18, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Howard's referring to Tim Tebow, the best-known college player of the past few years, whose parents are missionaries in the Philippines. His mom's pregnancy was difficult, and the doctor recommended an abortion, but she went ahead with the birth and delivered a healthy "miracle" baby. I doubt it was much in the papers at the time, though. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 17:21, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Now it turns out Meyer has changed his mind and hopes to return to the sideline next season. So never mind. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:47, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

There something about Florida coaches and flip-flopping on their decisions. –Howard the Duck 01:35, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
So all that was for nothing? --candlewicke 02:07, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
At least we had a preview of January 7's discussion. –Howard the Duck 02:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose--Before2012 (talk) 18:13, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

December 26

ITN candidates for December 26

Wuhan-Guangzhou High-Speed Railway

Wuhan-Guangzhou High-Speed Railway a 1068km long bullet train line running at 350km/h between two of China's largest cities will open for business. This is a $17 billion dollar investment for the country. Huge by Chinese standards.

The project is also impressive by world standards. High-speed rail by country This is the fastest high speed train and the length of this route alone is almost equivalent to all the high speed track length of Germany.

Shiplevelone (talk) 13:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 20:33, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Seems important enough. Not much more to say. It opened today. __meco (talk) 20:46, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, it is significant in several senses; however, the article is at the limits of acceptibility, if anyone feels like spending a bit of time on it. Physchim62 (talk) 22:23, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support if there is a picture. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Give me a good blurb, please. --Tone 00:34, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when, and only when the article sees some improvement. There are only 3 refs (one is a bare URL) and there is very little substantial information in it. I'd recommend a search for a few decent news sources, which often contain good background info. HJMitchell You rang? 00:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Support --Before2012 (talk) 18:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
People's Republic of China opens the Wuhan-Guangzhou High-Speed Railway at the average speed of 350 kilometres (220 mi) per hour, the world's fastest.
Attempted blurb. Article is about a start class now. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
The article does not mention "350 kilometres (220 mi) per hour", just says "more than 300 kilometres (190 mi)". Can you clarify this please?--BorgQueen (talk) 01:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. Fixed. Also the talk page says that trains have traveled faster. I don't know about that. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:44, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Impressive. You now have my unconditional support- the article is in much better shape with more info, more refs etc. As for a blurb:

-HJMitchell You rang? 01:48, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Ship fire

Hard to say without an article. However, there were two accidents with higher number of casualties today, according to the above box. --Tone 15:57, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when ready. The crew were from two separate continents and the incident happened on a third continent. It was also unknown if they were dead for some time. --candlewicke 20:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Crews die at sea on almost a daily basis, just most don't make the news. Modest Genius talk 20:43, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Sad finding. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:24, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of George Cowling

Support. Obviously important in their field of expertise. --candlewicke 20:30, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll support if the article gets improved, atm it's pretty much a stub. Modest Genius talk 20:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
There's very little info in the article at the minute, and it fail's the "three reference" criterion. I'm not convinced that more information could be found in the time available, but I'll reconsider if the article is expanded. Oppose for the minute. Physchim62 (talk) 20:58, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. We have too many deaths here. This one is not crucial. __meco (talk) 20:48, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per meco. Nice but not overly important. Wizardman 22:26, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose until the article contains a reasonable amount of information on Cowling's death and the societal impact thereof. (At the moment, it conveys only that "he died on Christmas Eve 2009 after a short stay in hospital.") —David Levy 22:30, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Sorry but the gentleman was 89. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:21, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

December 25

ITN candidates for December 25

Attempted terrorist attack on international flight

Similar Northwest Airbus in Delta livery

I suppose it's premature to be thinking about this on ITN, but I think it's worth keeping an eye on it to see how it develops. HJMitchell You rang? 23:57, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. Someone says "I'm from al Qaeda" doesn't mean one has to believe them. Even if he is, his plan failed. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment. I don't see an article yet. I'm also rather sceptical about anonymous "administration officials" talking about terrorism, but that's just a personal prejudice ;) Physchim62 (talk) 00:40, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose No article as far as I know, and it was foiled. --PlasmaTwa2 00:50, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support I assume an article will be forthcoming. Definitely a notable event, if confirmed. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 01:01, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Target article is Northwest Airlines Flight 253 ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 01:08, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Article looks developed; this makes sense to feature. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 04:14, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong support Extremely notable, great article. An actual bombing of an aircraft is an extremely unusual and significant event. Guy0307 (talk) 06:17, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Support This story will develop as the day goes on. Airport security likely to be increased again just as it was being said that there could be some relaxation in the coming months. Mjroots (talk) 06:57, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
This is a speculation. And it was just an attempt. If there is further development, I may support, but for now, Oppose. --Tone 09:13, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
There's very little actual information, and no evidence that the flight was ever actually in any danger. However, the article does look pretty good and we could do with some new stories up. Neutral. Modest Genius talk 13:52, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Suggested blurb:

or, alternatively: *Security is increased on transatlantic flights after a failed bomb attack aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 253

currently the lead story on BBC News, Google News, The Gurdian, CNN and AFP. Brown and Obama have both issued statements. HJMitchell You rang? 14:54, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm still not convinced by this one at all. Call it a terrorist attack if you must, but a "bomb" seems like hyperbole. Nor is there any information in the article about increased security measures (apart from a bland and completely non-specific statement from the DHS), so strong oppose to the second proposed blub. In general, I agree with Tone and Modest Genius, I'd rather this one didn't go up because it seems more hype than substance. Physchim62 (talk) 15:14, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Well I can't comment on statements by the DHS, I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic. However, the BBC is reporting an upping of security at all UK airports, especially on transatlantic flights (hence the second suggested blurb). Would you feel differently if we took the word "bomb" out? HJMitchell You rang? 15:40, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Go on then, I'll support A Nigerian national is detained in the United States after a failed terrorist attack aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 253. (note word change: we can call it a terrorist attack even if it turns out he was a lone nutcase). My problem with the second blurb is that the article doesn't have any details about new security checks. Physchim62 (talk) 16:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
  • I'd support having an item about this article, it's the lead headline on British news, e.g. Times, BBC, Guardian. I don't see why Wikipedia's news values should be out of step with the majority of the news media. Someone trying to blow up a trans-Atlantic flight is the kind of thing people would expect Wikipedia to highlight. (talk) 17:36, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Support I think the first one is better too, but I have added some information about the security restrictions.  fetchcomms 18:06, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Support A significant attack that I suspect will be the top headline around the world in the majority of the world's newspapers.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 20:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Upgraded from oppose to Neutral because Fetchcomms deserves recognition. I just hope we can keep down the speculation as to motives. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:14, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Not sure it is wise to say failed terrorist attack. --candlewicke 20:38, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Do you have a suggestion for better phrasing? HJMitchell You rang? 20:54, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Unsuccessful incident? Unsuccessful attack? Attempted attack? --candlewicke 21:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Is your issue with failed or with terrorist? If it's the former, it's easily changed, just a case of coming up with something better... HJMitchell You rang? 21:35, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Terrorist I think. But failed terrorist attack suggests emotion and drama and sensation and everything Wikipedia ought not to do. Then again I'm not overly familiar with all the details of this event so it may be acceptable if others think so, just thought I would point it out. I'm sure someone will be along to post soon, this is not unusual and is probably made worse by the time of year. --candlewicke 22:06, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Normally I wouldn't agree with you more. However, in this instance, it appears that someone boarded a transatlantic flight with some kind of flammable substance or explosive and attempted to ignite it in order to bring the plane down. It's confirmed in multiple RSs that the man was on terrorist watchlists (including the FBI's and possibly MI5's) and it looks as if al Qaeda or some subsidiary of it sponsored the attack from Yemen. I don;t see how we can avoid calling it "terrorism", as dramatic as it sounds. HJMitchell You rang? 22:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, it has been posted now and all mention of terrorism, failure and attack has been avoided. :) --candlewicke 22:17, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Posted Sorry to interrupt, but I posted this half an hour ago. I rarely think "terrorist attack" is appropriate for the Main Page. It would basically have to be the scale of Mumbai, London, Madrid, 9|11 for me to consider it, and, even if it were that obvious, I would prefer a description of what actually happened rather than a standard "terrorist attack" which could mean just about anything (as demonstrated here -- yes, he may have had an intent to destroy the aircraft, but compare intent with ability to do so). Also, according to the article, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security hasn't officially called it an attempted terrorist attack yet. Also, I should say I didn't think it was important to mention the passenger was Nigerian, especially as the second word in the blurb. Lastly, I think it's useful to mention the cities the flight was flying between, but I'd be okay with saying "between the Netherlands and the United States". I imagine someone may add USA to the Detroit, Michigan, description, or replace Michigan with USA, but we could be here all day debating that (although to be honest, I think Detroit could have even gotten the point across too). -- tariqabjotu 22:25, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

St Mel's Cathedral, Longford

  • The resignation of bishops has become an every day event but I'm fairly sure the burning down of 19th century cathedrals is not (yet). Best to keep watch on this, particularly if it turns out to be arson but, even if it is an accident, it is still the loss of a very old building and presumably all of its contents. --candlewicke 11:57, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
'Comment. One to keep an eye on, definitely. I'd support if it turns out to be arson, but I'd be worried about international significance if it is just an accident. Physchim62 (talk) 14:04, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Nazareth discovery

Reposting from December 22 to confirm support. Physchim62 (talk) 11:08, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Update needed at Nazareth#Attractions. TouLouse (talk) 13:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
This sounds as a Christmas-time article... Unless anything really remarkable is found, I oppose. --Tone 14:40, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: agreed. sephia karta | di mi 18:25, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. A "first" dating from a long time ago. --candlewicke 01:00, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support per Candlewicke. Would be nice to add perhaps tomorrow or Friday. Wizardman 06:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
We don't have an update so it's pointless to discuss further until there is one... --Tone 09:30, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Nazareth#Early Common Era has been updated: there is even a reference to the official excavation report. I Support, especially after reading that section of the article: it appears that there is some dispute as to whether Nazareth even existed in Jesus' time, so this discovery sheds light onto that question. Just as important, say, as many of the fossil discoveries that make it into ITN (and much more notable than most space launches). Physchim62 (talk) 23:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when the article is updated. -PlasmaTwa2 07:04, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Even if there were an update, it's not that remarkable a story. This kind of discovery is far from unique and if it happened at any other time of year or anywhere else in the world, it wouldn't get on ITN- even on a slow news day. HJMitchell You rang? 18:33, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Liu Xiaobo

[BBC] Leading Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo has been jailed for 11 years for "inciting subversion of state power", after a trial condemned in the West.--02:46, 25 December 2009 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

support - most well known dissident in China Shiplevelone (talk) 06:02, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
support - Liu is the greatest human right activist in China--1j1z2 (talk) 06:38, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. The trial got a lot of coverage worldwide. Physchim62 (talk) 11:04, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Belated support. The photo is free if you want to change the goat after Christmas. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of George Michael

"Now, George's voice has been silenced the only way it could be". Was he important enough? CNN says he was a "pioneer" at what he did anyway. The New York Times seems to agree. Oh well, I'll nominate it anyway to see what people think. --candlewicke 02:30, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Hardly a pioneer in my opinion. --PlasmaTwa2 02:34, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
support significant in his field (sports broadcasting). The article, however, could use some updating. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 04:15, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, not an overly significant death. Wizardman 04:21, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


A lot of the deaths for one road accident. --candlewicke 02:10, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually RIA Novosti are quoting a local website in saying that there are many more people involved than CNN think. Press TV are calling it the deadliest accident of the year for Peru. --candlewicke 02:18, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for now The article is in poor shape. When it is expanded, and all the red links are gone, I will support this. It sure it a good Christmas item, isn't it? :P --PlasmaTwa2 05:18, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Support per number of deaths - TouLouse (talk) 20:32, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

2009 Christmas Winter Storm

Twelve deaths, six in Nebraska alone. Huge ongoing storm. --Rave bmp (talk) 18:35, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The death toll now stands at 18, according to the BBC; although, the Associated Press is reporting 19 deaths. APK whisper in my ear 21:36, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

December 24

ITN candidates for December 24

Afghan bombing

A suicide bomb attack kills at least eight people in Kandahar, Afghanistan. HJMitchell You rang? 17:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose a suicide bombing in Afghanistan is hardly news anymore. --PlasmaTwa2 00:41, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Iraq bombings

Bomb attacks in the Iraqi cities of Baghdad and Hilla leave 23 dead. HJMitchell You rang? 16:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose --PlasmaTwa2 00:42, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
It usually takes about 100 to die in Iraq these days. Is there anything unusual about this attack? --candlewicke 02:32, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

US Senate vote on Healthcare reform

I was wondering if this would meet the criteria for ITN? I know it is an American-government story, but if this passes it could lead to the biggest change in US healthcare in decades. This is a key moment in a debate that has strong opionions from both sides, and I think that the scope of such a reform (It could affect millions of uninsured Americans) makes it important enough to be put on ITN, though I think that it should only be put up if it passes. Any thoughts? --PlasmaTwa2 09:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Strong Oppose. It's domestic politics, and not exactly revolutionary at that. If we started featuring such stories, we'd be inundated with 'major' domestic issues from several countries each week. Modest Genius talk 09:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: I think it's more ITN-worthy than most domestic legal changes. The debate has attracted plenty of attention worldwide. Having said that, I don't think we should post it until the reform has passed all the stages in Congress, which isn't what's happening today. Physchim62 (talk) 10:36, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't sure how the process works, so thanks for pointing out that this isn't the final step. I assumed it was, but all I really had to read was a BBC article. If that's true, then I think we should wait as well. --PlasmaTwa2 10:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, well, we were gonna have to debate this sooner or later. Yes, it is a US domestic story, and I would accept that as a reason not to post it, but there are always exceptions. The US healthcare debate has gotten tremendous coverage outside the US. The Guardian website has a whole section devoted to it. The popularity of Michael Moore's Sicko demonstrates the strong interest in the US healthcare system. Plus, I think a reasonable argument could be made that the reforms will have global impact on related industries such as medical research, pharmaceuticals or insurance. I support when and bill is signed and if the article is good and if the final bill is viewed as significant reform. In that event, I will vote strong support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll add my support if the above conditons are met. This will affect millions of people and I believe we would feature a similar story that would take place in China or India, for example. --Tone 12:09, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong oppose'. It's a US domestic issue which, in itself, is reason enough not to post it. However, what we're really talking about, if I understand correctly, is the senate has agreed to consider thinking about passing this massive chunk of paper into law. I'm not an expert on American politics so correct me if I'm wrong but, even if they do pass it, it doesn't become law. I'll support when Obama's signature is on the bottom because I understand its significance, but until then, as I say, strong oppose. HJMitchell You rang? 14:27, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for now. The House and Senate versions of the bill still have to be made identical, and that version of the bill must then pass both chambers. Once the final version passes Congress, I will be a strong support. The Globe and Mail in Toronto today called this the biggest change to U.S. social policy since the 1960s, and the issue has dominated the news in the U.S. (and been well-covered elsewhere) this year. -- (talk) 16:44, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Yea, the bill still needs to be conferenced, so nothing will be done til at least the new year. Once it passes both houses and President Obama signs it, then it should be posted. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 17:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for now. Agree this should be ITN when it gets through conference. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:10, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when it is finalised. Agree with points made by Johnsemlak, Tone. --candlewicke 18:22, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


Much more notable as an LGBT topic than the gay marriage/gay mayor nominations we've been having recently, IMHO. Physchim62 (talk) 00:16, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Support I have never heard of a government recognizing a third gender. That short sentence makes me want to go to page and learn more. Seems like a good one to me. --PlasmaTwa2 00:34, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. This is not an everyday event. --candlewicke 01:18, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
The article needs updating, and it is tagged for lack of citations.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: they have received a certain level of recognition in India also. I would support including this, but I wonder what exactly the news is now, since the article seems to say that the Supreme Court already passed this judgement in July. Wouldn't be the first time that the BBC was slow to catch up.sephia karta | di mi 02:13, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
The story is definitely from yesterday, but it's not 100% clear what the story is! See these reports [9][10] from the Pakistani press. If the BBC is right, this goes beyond the recognition given in India, which is what prompted me to nominate it. Physchim62 (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Support if this really is new news. Article "refimprove" removed, two "citations needed" sourced. Hermaphrodite is the word in my experience. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:21, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
True biological hermaphroditism is very rare in humans: "intersex" seems to be the term used (at least by activists) to cover a range of medical conditions as well as other gender identity questions. Physchim62 (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
OK. Article is updated. Google says there are 14 articles, but I only found three--one of them, the Examiner, is on our spam list, so there are only two sources: BBC News and Reuters. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Well did you check Pakistani papers ? News just going on right behind me.--yousaf465' 03:06, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
New York Times added, that makes three. Google Pakistan only lists these English sources. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Hopefully more news will arrive in few more mins. Newspapers usually get updated in next hour or so.--yousaf465' 03:53, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
You're right. The News International had a good story. I am quitting for the night. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:27, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the updates. I think now an admin need a final review before posting it.--yousaf465' 04:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Give me a short while to look at it... --BorgQueen (talk) 05:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Now that's an ITN-worthy LGBT story! Listing countries that recognize gay marriages or elect gay officials is not that special anymore so that we should list every one of them. Since it's been posted already, adding my belated support. --Tone 09:24, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Rafael Caldera

Perhaps we should have the death of former Venezuelan president, Rafael Caldera for today? Connormah (talk) 19:23, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Support - that should be on ITN. TouLouse (talk) 19:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Agree. He was in power during the 1960s, 1970s and returned in the 1990s. Also "liberated Chávez from prison"? --candlewicke 21:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
If the other death is removed when replaced by then, then I can support it. Wizardman 21:16, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Caldera is historically important to Venezuela. The other deaths on ITN are irrelevant. --PlasmaTwa2 00:40, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
This would appear to indicate he was very important. Probably one of the major political deaths of the year. --candlewicke 02:35, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I have expanded it as much as possible with sources considering there is very little detail. There is an image which I have added here so that it can be used from the 26th onwards when Christmas is over and the goat is not as relevant. Suggest: Former President of Venezuela Rafael Caldera dies at the age of 93. --candlewicke 02:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. It will replace one of the current death blurbs per Wizardman's request. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:32, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

December 23

ITN candidates for December 23

Severe Tropical Cyclone Laurence

renominating from below to gain further input HJMitchell You rang? Due to strike the Australia coast as a Category 5. Ks0stm (TCG) 04:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC) Struck the Australia coast as a category 5 tropical cyclone. Damage reported. Ks0stm (TCG) 16:19, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

How much damage? Where? Are there any injuries? It's difficult to form an opinion on whether it should feature on ITN until we have those details. HJMitchell You rang? 16:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong Support - It made its final landfall near Mandora Station in WA @ about 08.30 (UTC) this morning and its far too early too talk about damage injuries etc since youre talking about most of Australia being affected by Laurence but with a category five cyclone @ landfall we are told to expect widespread damage.Jason Rees (talk) 18:56, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Well I'll almost certainly support then. When we have the facts. I'd be uneasy about featuring "expected damage" on ITN but once we know something tangible, it should probably be featured. I'll keep an eye out, but post back here if you find something first. HJMitchell You rang? 19:07, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
No injuries reported thus far though significant damage has been reported. We will know more soon as a helicopter has been aranged to conduct an aerial assessment of the coastline which should be taking off @ 0000 UTC.Jason Rees (talk) 00:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
The article is now updated with "Laurence wrought severe damage. Numerous trees were uprooted by wind gusts reaching 285 km/h (177 mph) and several homes sustained substantial damage. Rainfall in the region was estimated to have exceeded 250 mm (9.8 in). Power and phone service to most of Pilbara was lost during the storm and several residents sought shelter in public buildings." and has the source Associated Press. Ks0stm (TCG) 20:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll support now. It appears to have been adequately updated and we actually have something to report now. HJMitchell You rang? 22:35, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Hmm. It doesn't seem particularly out of the ordinary for Australian tropical storms. Firts category 5 storm since 2007… and only a category 4 on the more commonly used SSHS. We already have one weather item with nearly a hundred deaths; now you're proposing "substantial damage to several houses". Doesn't seem like ITN material to me: Oppose. Physchim62 (talk) 22:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. We regularly don't report disasters that kill people so this doesn't seem that notable to me, though rather dramatic.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:50, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose similarly. sephia karta | di mi 02:14, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Gävle goat

Gävle goat
How about a Christmas item? Apparently this happens pretty much every year, which is a WTF sort of piece in itself! Physchim62 (talk) 22:00, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. It's Christmas so why the hell not? HJMitchell You rang? 22:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support and the photo is Creative Commons. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Haha, in case we want to have a Christmas item with a picture... Though it is about an arson... but apparently this is a tradition already. I won't oppose here but I suggest that if it is featured on ITN, it should only be on the 25th. --Tone 23:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
As long as you mean okay on December 25th and aren't inviting the next arson. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:23, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Need an 'animal' story, even if it's not real, and it's likely to be burnt. Also never heard of this 'goat' before. -- (talk) 23:32, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
So this plus the Nazareth story under 22 December for 25 December then (if updated)? --candlewicke 01:15, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose we shouldn't put something up just because it is Christmas. --PlasmaTwa2 01:20, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Let's not forget that there's a risk of ITN going a bit 'stale' over the holiday season. That's a valid reason (for me) to post stories that probably wouldn't make it at other times of the year. The Nazareth story has been updated, BTW. Physchim62 (talk) 01:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
I would support the Nazareth story, because it is an important discovery. I would not support this. I don't find anything newsworthy about this, save the fact it is the first traditional arson that I have ever heard of. --PlasmaTwa2 02:17, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
If it is the first traditional arson you have ever heard of then it is unusual. It is also the first traditional arson I have heard of. --candlewicke 05:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Unusual, maybe, but so is the Poe Toaster. I also recall they do something like this every year at Burning Man. The argument that this should go up because it is Christmas themed is a flawed and would never work if suggested for Halloween or Thanksgiving. Besides, the Nazareth item is much more appropriate and encyclopedic. --PlasmaTwa2 07:03, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

(redent): I can't see how this is completely unnewsworthy. Would we be debating the significance if it were the Christmas Tree in Trafalgar Square or at the Rockefeller Center that was destroyed by arson? The tradition of yule goats is maybe less widespread than that of Christmas trees, but it's important in Scandinavia and the yule goats at Gävle are the biggest anywhere (13 m, 42 ft high this year, just short of the all time record). And unlike the Burning Man, the Gävle goat isn't supposed to be set on fire (at least, that's the official line: I'm sure the tradition does no harm to the Gävle tourist industry!) It's a news story that makes people want to click on the link and find out more, which is surely a good thing for ITN. Physchim62 (talk) 10:22, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Well said Physchim. This is something different, slightly odd and (shock, horror!) festive and seasonal. Let's have a sense of humour and post this! HJMitchell You rang? 14:36, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Time to post this, Nazareth and why not the Pope as well? TFA, DYK, OTD and TFP have all gone Christmassy. :) --candlewicke 00:21, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
The Pope fell down. The only notable part is that he didn't break his hip. --PlasmaTwa2 00:38, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --Allen3 talk 00:34, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Nazareth (under 22 December) also has support for this day. --candlewicke 02:01, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Arnold Stang

Not sure about this one, it's something different, but he was the voice of Top Cat and The New York Times says he had "a singular and recognizable persona, whether on radio or television, in the movies or in advertisements, or even in cartoons" so he was in a lot of places. The LA Times says he "never officially retired". --candlewicke 21:37, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose not really at the "top of his profession". Physchim62 (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
He actually died on Sunday. I was considering nominating him myself but thought it may have been a little late, but hey- support. Top of his profession, perhaps not, but Top Cat, to the best of my (very limited) knowledge, is iconic both sides of the Atlantic. HJMitchell You rang? 22:41, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, not even close to front-page worthy. Wizardman 22:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
would you care to provide a ratioanle as to why not? HJMitchell You rang? 22:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I didn't even know what Top Cat was, and I live on one of those sides of the Atlantic. --PlasmaTwa2 22:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: I live on one of these sides of the Atlantic too and the BBC (which mentions it in its headline) is also on one of these sides of the Atlantic and we have heard of Top Cat. However, perhaps all sides have not. --candlewicke 01:08, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Seems like a minor bit of pop culture. Oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Hanna-Barbera is far from the best of cartoons. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:03, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Mohammad Younus

The senator was shot by police. His son/driver was also killed. A third person was wounded. An investigation has been ordered. --candlewicke 21:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Afghan politician, but not really internationally significant. No article. Physchim62 (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Reluctant oppose. Having a WP article is not a measure of notability. That said, I don't think he meets the death criteria and the incident itself is not that significant IMHO. HJMitchell You rang? 22:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I think the 'No Article' point above wasn't a statement of notability, but rather of the fact that w/o an article we can't post it in ITN.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps, but it's still no reason to oppose when one could be so easily created. HJMitchell You rang? 23:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I didn't mean it to be an absolute criterion: as HJMitchell quite rightly points out, we can always create an article if the news story is significant enough, as was done this morning for Luis Francisco Cuéllar. On the other hand, I would expect that a subject who would pass the death criteria would already have an article, and so the lack of an article is an invitation to consider whether the subject is really notable enough for ITN. In this case, given the standing of the victim and the circumstances of the death, the answer is "no" for me. Physchim62 (talk) 23:23, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
What circumstances? He was killed by the police. Is it not very like an Afghan version of Cuéllar (who did not have an article when his death was announced)? --candlewicke 01:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Younus was killed by police when he refused to stop at a checkpoint, which is a dangerous sport in many countries, not least Afghanistan. As for Cuéllar, we would probably have run the item on the kidnapping even if he hadn't been killed: he was the most senior politician to have been kidnapped in Colombia since 2002. As Cuéllar was killed (unusual for a high-profile hostage), we can hardly run the kidnapping story without mentioning the death, but the death criteria don't really come ito that case. Physchim62 (talk) 02:16, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Ike Aranne (formerly Yitzhak Aronowicz)

Does Wikipedia even have an article on this guy? The closest I found was Yitzhak Aharonovich, and his article is not updated to say he is dead, nor makes mention of an 'iconic' international incident. --PlasmaTwa2 20:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose He might have made a "unique" contribution to the state of Israel, but it was a relatively minor one and a long time ago. No article, although there is a redlink in SS Exodus, which seems to indicate that nobody though he was significant enough to bother. Physchim62 (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I like to think it is just that nobody has gotten round to adding him (or other examples of red links) yet. He may be from an area which does not have many Wikipedians. :) --candlewicke 01:13, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


  • Soyuz TMA-17. Since we feature all the space launches... --Tone 09:43, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose because we shouldn't… Physchim62 (talk) 09:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. We seem to feature everything that happens in space, no matter how trivial and we should save it for more significant events. This has happened before, it'll happen again and it's not really that big a deal. HJMitchell You rang? 13:29, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with above. We should have some criteria. So, I would suggest a guideline like... space flights that are something special (like the last flight of the shuttle some time next year or in two years) and those missions that bring up some important new equipment (like missions to other planets etc.) --Tone 15:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Firstly we'd need to remove the space exploration section from WP:ITNR – we should probably remove the meteor showers section at the same time, given recent opposes. That way, each space mission would have to be debated here on its merits. For me, the criterion is that there has to be something different about a mission for it to go on ITN – the subject shouldn't make me think "so what?" or, if it does, I would expect to find the answer to "so what?" in the article. Physchim62 (talk) 18:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
The article needs expansion, so it's currently not eligible for posting despite ITNR status. I think that's a key point about ITNR--events on that list are only posted if the articles are suitably expanded and referenced. I don't have a huge problem with the current policy of posting all space launches when the articles are up to scratch. Many people do find these events very significant.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree that the ITNR entry needs looking at. We should certainly be featuring new space telescopes, interplanetary probes, first flight of a new rocket etc., but probably not the launch of every communication satellite or ISS supplies / crew changeover. Modest Genius talk 10:03, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Luis Francisco Cuellar

Support if updated. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 06:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support --PlasmaTwa2 08:13, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
The article is short, but meets the technical requirements. Physchim62 (talk) 11:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it does. Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:33, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Sa'dah insurgency

It was featured on 6 November with the following blurb: "The Sa'dah insurgency, a civil war in Yemen, spreads into Saudi Arabia." There seems to be little significant development since then, however often it appears in P:CE. In fact, I get the impression that some editors are trying to use Wikipedia to fight their propaganda battles. As such, Strong Oppose until something actually happens. Physchim62 (talk) 16:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Michael Schumacher

  • Something a bit different to what ITN usually posts, but how about "Seven-time Formula One Champion Michael Schumacher announces he is returning to the sport from next season"? - (talk) 20:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
The problem is with the word "announces". Though an interesting story, ITN features only solid facts - like if he wins another major race, there should be no problem in putting this on. But not at the moment. --Tone 20:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Tone on this one. oppose. Physchim62 (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Sorry but wait until he does something. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Not notable. It's 75% the car anyway YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 23:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

December 22

ITN candidates for December 22

Pashawar bombing

A suicide bomb attack in Peshawar, north-western Pakistan kills three and injures at least seventeen. HJMitchell You rang? 20:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose suicide bombings are fairly common in that part of the world, unfortunately. And this one is relatively small. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 21:16, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Indeed they are, but that shouldn't make this event any less significant, especially since the last significant attack was nearly 2 months ago. If it was a week or two ago, I might feel differently. HJMitchell You rang? 23:31, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Kim Peek

  • Kim Peek, the autistic savant who inspired the Oscar-winning film Rain Man, has died, aged 58. --Hapsala (talk) 13:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose; he simply doesn't meet our death criteria. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
oppose. We can't feature the death of every notable person, hence the death criteria. HJMitchell You rang? 15:22, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong oppose. May this individual be left in peace for once. A quick reading of the gutter side of Wikipedia shows that the film was not "inspired" by the sadly deceased, although the scriptwrighter did meet the person concerned. Physchim62 (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. As per above.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:23, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Nazareth discovery

Update needed at Nazareth#Attractions. TouLouse (talk) 13:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
This sounds as a Christmas-time article... Unless anything really remarkable is found, I oppose. --Tone 14:40, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: agreed. sephia karta | di mi 18:25, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. A "first" dating from a long time ago. --candlewicke 01:00, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support per Candlewicke. Would be nice to add perhaps tomorrow or Friday. Wizardman 06:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
We don't have an update so it's pointless to discuss further until there is one... --Tone 09:30, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Nazareth#Early Common Era has been updated: there is even a reference to the official excavation report. I Support, especially after reading that section of the article: it appears that there is some dispute as to whether Nazareth even existed in Jesus' time, so this discovery sheds light onto that question. Just as important, say, as many of the fossil discoveries that make it into ITN (and much more notable than most space launches). Physchim62 (talk) 23:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when the article is updated. -PlasmaTwa2 07:04, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Serbia- EU bid

Serbia has made a formal application to the European Union, which is currently comprised of twenty-seven member states. I doubt this will get much support but I think it's a significant milestone in European history. HJMitchell You rang? 03:15, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Support when the application is accepted. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
As EU cannot afford another border dispute, Serbia's application wont be accepted before its the relations with Kosovo are settled... --Hapsala (talk) 14:40, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support significant enough whether they get in or not. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 05:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Wait for now. Support when the application is accepted or rejected, either way it will be significant. The article will have to be updated first of course. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for the moment. The formal application (which won't be handed over until later today) isn't really that much of a deal: far more significant was the unblocking of the EU–Serbia trade deal earlier in the month. Nor did we cover the applications of Albania or Iceland earlier in the year (admittedly, both smaller countries than Serbia). I would say the time to post these stories is when the accession treaty is signed (ie, when the negotiations are over): the next such treaty will probably be for Croatia at some point in 2010. Physchim62 (talk) 07:58, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose the application. If Serbia joins the EU, we should post that.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:42, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose similarly. sephia karta | di mi 18:24, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I'd support when they become an official candidate country and start accession talks. And we did cover the referendum on Iceland. --Tone 14:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I think the Iceland case is more significant as I don't think they had any intention of joining when they were having a good time. --candlewicke 01:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Iceland was a bit different as well as there was a very real possibility that the measure wouldn't get through parliament (it was a parliamentary vote, not a referendum). I think I would support Tone's criterion (post when negotiations start) on that basis, as there's a fair chance that the accession talks will be delayed because of the ongoing Mladic case. Physchim62 (talk) 12:30, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Dongo conflict

A significant event, MONUC is involved. Should attract attention. Olegwiki (talk) 14:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

115,000 168,000 refugees (Bloomberg) seems significant to me, even if this has been going on for weeks now. Physchim62 (talk) 13:03, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Journalist killed

  • [11] Would like to have some comments on this one. --Tone 14:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
oppose. We don't feature the death of every journalist who dies a violent death- I'm sure there are plenty in China, Iran and many other places but we wouldn't feature them. HJMitchell You rang? 17:31, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, deaths of journalists are rather common (68 in 2009). We can't post them all. There needs to be additional notability.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Martin Brodeur breaks all-time shutout record

  • New Jersey Devils goaltender Martin Brodeur earned his 104th career shutout surpassing Terry Sawchuk as the all-time shutout leader. Links: [12] This isn't just another record, it was never expected to be broken and won't be again anytime soon. A significant achievment. Kyle Falcon 11:49, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support sephia karta | di mi 18:27, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. This does not seem like that significant a sporting event. The record seems significant, but this is "in the News", not the Guiness Book of Records and we only have room to feature the most significant events. However, I maintain we need a separate area of the main page to feature this kind of thing. HJMitchell You rang? 20:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support When Barry Bonds took over the home run record it was put up, though when Brodeur captured the most wins record it didn't. This is the last major goaltender award he needed to win. It was a record that has stood for over thirty years and like Kyle Falcon said was never expected to be broken. --PlasmaTwa2 22:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. A more apt baseball comparison would be when Trevor Hoffman broke the all-time saves record. A good job, but not front-page worthy. A blurb in the daily ITN itself though I could be persuaded on. Wizardman 22:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose per above. Its a big record, but it's not on the same page as Bond's home run record, Cy Young's wins record (that will really never be broken), Rose's hits record, Gretzky's goals record, etc. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 22:22, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support As big as Bonds, and without the aid of performance enhancing drugs. Grsz11 00:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Whilst this is big in ice hockey (I know, I play it), it's not something of interest to anyone who isn't a fan of the sport. Frankly I don't think any of the records listed by DC should be listed, were they to be achieved today. In team sports, individual records are interesting to fans but no-one else. Modest Genius talk 16:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Not of interest to non-hockey fans.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:32, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment Not of interest is not a valid argument. FC Barcelona is not of interest to non-soccer fans. --PlasmaTwa2 22:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, leaving aside the issue that soccer is far more popular than hockey, FC Barcelona's victories are of great interest to many people who don't follow soccer. IMO a key criteria for a sports event is when it trancends the interest of the established fan base of the particular sport.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I think this is the point. When the 100m world record is broken, people are interested even if they normally don't care about athletics. That should be our standard - sports stories need to be of interest beyond just that sport's fans (whether the barcelona story actually does that I'm kinda neutral on tbh). Modest Genius talk 10:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

December 21

ITN candidates for December 21

Same-sex marriage in Mexico City

Support. If it is indeed the first recognition of its type in Latin America, it's highly significant. HJMitchell You rang? 23:42, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 00:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Same-sex marriage in Mexico City may be the best link? GreenGourd (talk) 02:04, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 04:55, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm personally not so sure I would have supported this. It's just one city legalizing it (though admittedly a very large city). It's not the first city to do so in North America. Are we sure it is a first for Latin America? For me, in any case, 'Latin America' is somewhat vague as a geographic term, akin to 'Middle East'. Then there's precedent-do we now regularly post when cities legalize same sex marriage?--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, its not just a city, its the federal district, which is a lot closer to "state" status than (eg) its counterpart in the USA: elects federal senators in the same number as the states, head of government attends governors' conferences, etc. (talk) 14:24, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Fair point. It also has a very sustantial population. Still, it's not nationwide.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, this should be posted only if it were nation-wide. Just one federal district is not that remarkable IMO (would apply the same criteria if it were about the US). I think we should remove it. --Tone 14:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Tone. While I fully support LGBT rights, we only feature nation-wide legalizations of same-sex marriages. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Concur with the above. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 22:08, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support inclusion. From the point of view of same-sex couples, it doesn't matter what government level legalised their marriage. The point is that there is now some part of Latin-America in which this is possible. I would not support inclusion of any further such legalisations in Latin-America, say hypothetically in the whole of Uruguay. sephia karta | di mi 18:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
LGBT adoption was also legalized in the same session, if that's deemed worth including. (talk) 21:59, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Slight Oppose While this is a major even in gay rights in Latin America, it is only a federal district and not nationwide. I dislike being the guy who brings stuff up all the time, but when California legalized gay marriage for the short time, it was not put up because it was not a nationwide legalization. --PlasmaTwa2 01:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
This is different. --candlewicke 05:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Care to explain how? California and Mexico City are about the same population and are both sub-national entities. The only difference I see is that this is the first in Mexico, whereas in California's case it wasn't. --PlasmaTwa2 06:10, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
The District of Columbia also recently voted to allow gay marriage, and no one nominated that. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 06:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Seems we don't have a full consensus here so it's better to remove it. Can someone else do it, I am short on time... --Tone 09:32, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I would if I could.  Cargoking  talk  Happy Chirstmas 09:34, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Removed. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment. I wish we hadn't removed this; indeed, there seems to be fairly greater support than opposition here. (If we're going to require unanimous support, I fear for ITN!) In any event, the analogy between Distrito Federal and California (or D.C.) is unpersuasive to me. This was a first in Mexico—and in what is one of the cultural capitals of Latin America. Best wishes! GreenGourd (talk) 18:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, after reading through the comments, I think support/opposition is roughly even. --PlasmaTwa2 19:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Support inclusion. There is a difference between "civil union" and "marriage". "Marriage" gives same sex couples equal rights, whereas "civil union" does not. This is the first time same sex marriage is legalised in a Catholic country, so it is is a major event. And the Federal District of Mexico City has more than 20 million inhabitants, which is more than many countries in the world. (More than twice compared to the country I live in.) And BorgQueen, remember that Wikipedia is not supposed to be censored, although people often try to censor it. Compared to some of the news that are shown now it is a much bigger event, or do you seriously think that "FC Barcelona wins the 2009 FIFA Club World Cup" is more important news?
I see eight supporting: 201.137..., HJMitchell, candle•wicke, GreenGourd, SusanLesch, Jake Wartenberg, sephia karta, David Göthberg.
I see six opposing: Johnsemlak, Tone, BorgQueen, DC, PlasmaTwa2, Cargoking.
I think this should be put back up.
--David Göthberg (talk) 19:40, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
This has nothing whatsoever to do with censorship; it is about how we run ITN. I am not the one who decides what should be featured or what shouldn't. The consensus does. There are already quite a number of oppositions (Tone, Plasma Twa 2, Deserted Cities, Johnsemlak, Cargoking, and myself - and yes, that's "quite a number" here on ITN) and we do not post any item, be it LGBT-related, sports, politics, disasters, or whatever, when such a number of people express disapproval or concern. I am not the one who posted the football item, so I can't comment on it, but the item has been clearly supported by consensus and I see no problem with it. Please try to familiarize yourself with the ITN nomination process before blindly accusing anyone with exercising censorship. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:06, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Severe Tropical Cyclone Laurence

Due to strike the Australia coast as a Category 5. Ks0stm (TCG) 04:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC) Struck the Australia coast as a category 5 tropical cyclone. Damage reported. Ks0stm (TCG) 16:19, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

How much damage? Where? Are there any injuries? It's difficult to form an opinion on whether it should feature on ITN until we have those details. HJMitchell You rang? 16:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong Support - It made its final landfall near Mandora Station in WA @ about 08.30 (UTC) this morning and its far too early too talk about damage injuries etc since youre talking about most of Australia being affected by Laurence but with a category five cyclone @ landfall we are told to expect widespread damage.Jason Rees (talk) 18:56, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Well I'll almost certainly support then. When we have the facts. I'd be uneasy about featuring "expected damage" on ITN but once we know something tangible, it should probably be featured. I'll keep an eye out, but post back here if you find something first. HJMitchell You rang? 19:07, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
No injuries reported thus far though significant damage has been reported. We will know more soon as a helicopter has been aranged to conduct an aerial assessment of the coastline which should be taking off @ 0000 UTC.Jason Rees (talk) 00:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
The article is now updated with "Laurence wrought severe damage. Numerous trees were uprooted by wind gusts reaching 285 km/h (177 mph) and several homes sustained substantial damage. Rainfall in the region was estimated to have exceeded 250 mm (9.8 in). Power and phone service to most of Pilbara was lost during the storm and several residents sought shelter in public buildings." and has the source Associated Press. Ks0stm (TCG) 20:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

renominated above to get further input

Iran violence

Violence has broken out at the funeral of Grand Ayatollah Hoseyn Ali Montazeri in the Iranian city of Qom. Might just be worth adding it to the existing blurb for his death. HJMitchell You rang? 16:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

OPPOSE -- (talk) 04:13, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, add it to the existing blurb. sephia karta | di mi 18:15, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Nigerian unrest

Thirty people are killed in violence in the central Nigerian state of Nasarawa. with the worst violence reported in the village of Udenin Gida. HJMitchell You rang? 16:58, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Support when there is an update. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:43, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Saudi airstrike on Yemen

on previous day's P:CE but not nominated for ITN An airstrike by Saudi Arabia is reported to have killed at least 54 people in Yemen. HJMitchell You rang? 17:04, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Support when there is an update. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:43, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Weak oppose. Why this particular (alledged) Saudi airstrike? The one last week (alledgedly) killed seventy civilians… (BBC News) At the very least, it needs to be part of a story of an ongoing conflict: for the minute, I don't see a notable escalation. Physchim62 (talk) 21:56, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
This conflict is ongoing since 2004 and has its own article: Sa'dah insurgency. What is news is that the U.S. launched air strikes last week in this part of Yemen against al Qaeda. Obama Ordered U.S. Military Strike on Yemen Terrorists - ABC News. Argoq (talk) 03:27, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
The extant of U.S. participation is very unclear. The air strike story disappeared almost immediately with later claims that it was U.S. cruise missiles, then U.S. advice and weapons supplied to Yemeni government troops. The Houthi meanwhile appear to be blaming several Saudi air strikes on U.S. planes. (talk) 16:09, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

December 20

ITN candidates for December 20

December 2009 European snowfall

December 2009 European snowfall, death of 18 Europeans, closure or several European Airports and closure of the Channel tunnel. IJA (talk) 21:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This is already on ITN, combined with a similar story in America. I would not mention the tunnel separately because they close it occasionally. Last year fire, for example. And yes, it's winter, it's really cold these days! --Tone 21:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. It's snowing!  Cargoking  talk  21:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. If the United States is there why not Europe? More deaths, more countries. --candlewicke 22:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Note. It is, it's combined with the US blurb, though there's a discussion on that at WP:ERRORS. HJMitchell You rang? 23:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Brittany Murphy

TouLouse (talk) 21:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Sad, but I'll have to oppose here. Not meeting the requirements, besides, we don't want to have more than one obituary on ITN at the same time. --Tone 21:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Agree with oppose. Young and tragic isn't enough to fit into the small space available at ITN. Dedicated news outlets have more space and so can cover more stories, but Wikipedia is not primarily a news outlet. Physchim62 (talk) 21:42, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Concur with both the above. Tragic? Without doubt. ITN? Afraid not. We can't report the death of every prominent person, no matter how tragic, because we'd be doing it every day. The exceptions are (without checking the death criteria again) highly prominent or important persons in their field (world leaders, Nobel laureates, for example) and extremely notable deaths of prominent persons (for example an assassination). That said, we have Wikinews for exactly this kind of thing- they're always glad of an extra pair of hands over there. HJMitchell You rang? 22:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Was this person even as well known as Heath Ledger? --candlewicke 02:41, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Who? Sorry, not really notable.  Cargoking  talk  Happy Chirstmas 20:20, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Rage Against the Machine

(BBC) The Rage Against the Machine song "Killing in the Name" is part of a successful grassroots campaign to become the Christmas number one in the United Kingdom and the best-selling download-only single of all time.

  • Not enough music or UK-centric stories as of late. Of some significance, as the campaign did break a couple of UK chart records in the process. Sceptre (talk) 19:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree there aren't enough UK-centric stories at the minute, but there's nothing that important happening here (except snow at Heathrow airport which makes headline news even if it is December!) but this is not that significant IMHO, it's just a bunch of "anti-X Factorists" making a point, rather than anything about Rage Against the Machine. Oppose HJMitchell You rang? 20:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support per lack of music ITNs, the best-selling download-only single of all time thing and interest outside UK, The Irish Times, CNN, etc. --candlewicke 21:11, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong Oppose per HJMitchell. --PlasmaTwa2 21:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, nothing really special. --Tone 21:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support First time this sort of thing has happened in the UK, plus it is the first download only xmas number 1 IJA (talk) 21:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support This story has been gaining more and more momentum over the past week in the UK. Lugnuts (talk) 21:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Good God NO. Sorry, but no thanks. Just some random thing.  Cargoking  talk  21:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Unlike a trivial boxing record, some road accident and snow (in winter!), of course. Lugnuts (talk) 21:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I hate to say it and to detract from issue, but that is hardly a strong argument (notice, for most, their absence from ITN) and badgering opposers is not goig to get you anywhere. Try opposing those threads. HJMitchell You rang? 22:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Rationale is below, if you need one. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The grassroots campaign is almost an aside to the chart records it broke (first Christmas #1 on downloads alone, best selling download-only single), and besides, the campaign has been prolific news since about Tuesday in the UK. Sceptre (talk) 00:33, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
And, if it helps, the front page of non-UK newspaper The Irish Times has called it "POSSIBLY the biggest chart upset ever", "only available on download" and "the closest race for the Christmas No 1 slot in more than a decade". --candlewicke 02:39, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Strong support, because apparently that cancels out a strong oppose ;). Seriously though, it's an example of the power of social networking defeating the power of one of the biggest television franchises in the world. That's a pretty notable event in the history of media. It also helps counter the recent passive anti-UK bias. Note that two of the opposes do not give any rational whatsoever, with a third dropping a simple per-nom, and a fourth deciding that GOOD GOD NO, JUST NO qualifies as a rationale. And HJ, this isn't really about Rage, who indeed did not initiate this. It is about the song, and the significance of the nature of its rise to prominence. WFCforLife (talk) 04:17, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

You asked for my reason? Go to WikiNews. They accept any reasonable article. Sorry but I am not impressed by this one or by endless rhapsodizing on it. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:25, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong Oppose. Cool as it is, it's just christmas number one. So what? Modest Genius talk 06:07, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Some bloke on some website takes on the most influential man in British and American TV, and wins. Not to mention that it's the biggest story in the UK today, and that music and the UK have been underrepresented in recent weeks. And I replace my statement that "two editors have given no rationale", with "one has given no rationale, and one has responded "go to wikinews, I don't like this". WFCforLife (talk) 06:36, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Biggest story in the UK? It's not even leading the entertainment sections, let alone the main headlines. It was big on sunday evening (though as far as I am aware never a top story on any major news outlet), but that's because nothing else happened on sunday evening; as soon as monday rolled around and real news started up again, it dropped like a stone. Modest Genius talk 12:16, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
What's your rational? That the UK and music have been underrepresented? That is no reason to put something on itn. I opposed this because this isn't really news. Will this change the music industry? Just because "some bloke takes on the most infuential man in British and American TV" (Which I find debateable) doesn't make it all that notable. It is just a song; we didn't put up the last most-downloaded song when it reached the top. --PlasmaTwa2 07:26, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, strongly per Plasma, HJ, etc. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 07:33, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
WFCforLife, Google decided it is the top in entertainment news, rather than the biggest story in the U.K. The fact remains unimpressive: "It is the first time in four years an X Factor winner has not been the Christmas No1." -SusanLesch (talk) 07:38, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

New record for women

In professional boxing. Sounds important and there aren't enough women on the Main Page, etc. --candlewicke 18:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, I agree that there could be more stories about women but women boxing? Not my type of ITN... --Tone 21:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
oppose. What we really need is an "ITN Sport" for exactly this kind of notable occurance that, in my opinion, should not be on ITN itself. HJMitchell You rang? 21:47, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
What is wrong with women boxing? I know nothing about it, am just curious. --candlewicke 02:42, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Runaway lorry kills 100

(BBC) A runaway lorry has hit a crowded market in Kogi State, Nigeria and killed up to 100 people (officials say 55, BBC reporter counted at least 100). An additional 40 people have been injured. I know we don't normally deal with road accidents but this terrible event seems to be something more than the run of the mill. No article that I could find on it yet - Dumelow (talk) 15:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Strong support when article is created, imagine the impact of this if it had happened in Brittain. sephia karta | di mi 17:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
support. 100 deaths is more than just a trivial road accident and yes, if this had happened in the west, it would be headline news of every reputable news outlet. HJMitchell You rang? 17:42, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when created. --Tone 21:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately I don't have time this week to create the article, if anyone else would like to do so that would be great - Dumelow (talk) 11:01, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Hosein-Ali Montazeri

One of Iran's most prominent dissident clerics has died. "Hoseyn Ali Montazeri was a moving spirit in the 1979 revolution which created Iran's Islamic state", "One of Shia Islam's most respected figures, he was also a leading critic of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad". BBC correspondent says "the death comes at a crucial time in a standoff between the government and opposition". Reuters calls him "Iran's top dissident cleric". The Times refers to him as "Iran's most senior dissident cleric" and says he was "still respected by many Iranians". One of the main stories on CNN too. --candlewicke 09:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Nope. Not at all. But since it's my nomination one is bound to come along quite quickly if you leave it long enough. :P --candlewicke 12:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
And I don't have time now... ;( --candlewicke 12:59, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. I think we should post it.--yousaf465' 13:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Seems like a very prominent figure in his religion. The article is in pretty good shape, and all the tenses have been changed, etc. There's not a lot to write about the death at the moment, but there may be more updating to do after the funeral tomorrow morning. Physchim62 (talk) 16:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support sephia karta | di mi 17:25, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Updated, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

SAAB Automobilen - first luxury brand to be discontinued since Ford's Merkur in 1989

This has been decided? Or has it been forced? --candlewicke 07:51, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
'Support --PlasmaTwa2 08:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Saab's a major car brand. What the heck is Merkur? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 10:10, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards support but the update is a bit short. Can someone add a few more sentences with a couple of references here? --BorgQueen (talk) 10:22, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Is the basis of this being worthy of high profile that a company is closing, or that a badge is being taken off the market? If the former, I would suggest that redundancy for 3,500 workers is sad, but far from unique in present circumstances; if the latter, I would suggest that the internecine ownership issues in the car industry, and the propensity of the trade to ressurect names, even where there is little continuity with the previous brand issues, it would be at the very least brave to suggest that there will never again be a car branded as a Saab. Kevin McE (talk) 10:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: Spyker Cars has made a new offer, so this is still not final.[13]sephia karta | di mi 17:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
In that case, let's see what comes of that. Whatever happens, I'd be inclined to support but we shouldn't feature it on ITN until we have all the facts. HJMitchell You rang? 20:11, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. Better to wait. --Tone 21:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Unexpected results in Exoplanet search to be announced

  • The first results from the Kepler Mission are about to be announced: "I was not prescient enough to anticipate something that we're seeing," David Latham, a mission co-investigator from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, told "There are some good things coming." Looking for alien Earths? Here they come Argoq (talk) 13:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. The whole point of the mission was to find "unexpected" things and they haven't exactly found little green men. If it makes some truly groundbreaking discovery, then of course it should be featured but until then, I'd say not. HJMitchell You rang? 17:47, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
So what was that interesting thing they found? --Tone 21:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when they locate these aliens. --candlewicke 02:43, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 :-) --Tone 09:41, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
May be they've discovered that space aliens have been hacking into the UK Internet and downloading the latest Rage Against The Machine single… Physchim62 (talk) 09:48, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it was their latest at all. Lead single on debut album from 1992 is about as far back as you can go... but the UK having its own Internet? That's a discovery worthy of the Main Page... ;) --candlewicke 15:05, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
So Argoq expects that the not-yet-announced results will be unexpected? Do they know something we don't? Oppose until something interesting gets published in a peer-reviewed journal, as always for science stories. Modest Genius talk 12:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

December 19

ITN candidates for December 19

Iranian occupation of Iraqi claimed oil field

Neutral. Such things happen, unfortunately. I think we should wait a few hours at least to see what comes of it. Physchim62 (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

2009 FIFA Club World Cup

FC Barcelona win the 2009 FIFA Club World Cup over Estudiantes de La Plata.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:40, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Barça, Barça, Barça!!!!. Sorry, I got a bit carried away there! The article to update is surely FC Barcelona, who have now won every trophy they could have done in 2009. I think that is unprecedented in soccer. I will formally support once the relevant articles have been duely updated with references, I have to go and hang a blue-and-gold banner out my window ;) Physchim62 (talk) 22:33, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
This has definitely never happened before in soccer (winning every possible trophy)? --candlewicke 00:25, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
No team has ever won a Treble(winning the domestic league, the primary domestic cup, and the UEFA Champions League or European Cup) and gone on to win the FIFA Club World Cup. A 'treble' is rare in and of itself. Plus, they have won the European Super Cup and the Supercopa de Espana.
Can anyone update FC Barcelona#Quadruple winning season 282008.E2.80.932009.29? --BorgQueen (talk) 05:22, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually Ajax completed the treble and won the Intercontinental Cup in 1972. JACOPLANE • 2009-12-20 13:10
As did Manchester United in 1999. Physchim62 (talk) 13:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I was aware of that, but the Intercontinental Cup isn't really the same type of competition. Also, the 1999 Treble-winning Manchester United went on to lose in the then-inaugural 2000 FIFA Club World Championship.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong support this is actually very rare. There have been waaay less important events covered here just because they were north American sports. Even if they were not the first to do it (I kind of doubt it since no major sports source mentions it) it is still worthwhile to go up. Anyways, it is their 6th title this eyar.[14] Nergaal (talk) 07:28, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
There is definite novelty in this accomplishment. It's just difficult to pinpoint it as an absolute 'first' because there are so many football competitions out there.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
This is a reliable source for the claim of "first": it doesn't mean it's correct, of course, but it's an RS! Another point to make is that not every country has an equivalent of the Supercopa de España, for example, so not every club could win six competitions in a year… Physchim62 (talk) 14:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. But before I post, please add refs and category to the sextuple article. --Tone 14:35, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Done, although I'm still working on both articles (FC Barcelona and The Sextuple), so any admin thinking of posting might like to check the latest versions rather than what they might have seen this morning. Physchim62 (talk) 15:01, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting, though a bit late... --Tone 15:59, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

First image of a lake on another world

This seems to be noticeable enough for the main page. Nergaal (talk) 17:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
It was actually updated, see Lakes_of_Titan#Observation_of_specular_reflections. Nergaal (talk) 19:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 22:08, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for the moment. I hate to have to do this, but the update would never pass muster if this were not a space subject. This might be a lake, great. There's one reference and a second to a technical point. ITN/C has opposed stories for less than that in the past. Physchim62 (talk) 22:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Also: "This is not the first evidence of liquid on Titan. In 2008, project members used infrared technology to discover a large lake in the moon's southern hemisphere." (CNN). Physchim62 (talk) 23:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but that was presumed. This is a visual observation, only that it was done in the IR. Nergaal (talk) 23:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, we've known about the lakes for ages. It's a cool observation, but not a breakthrough scientific result or technical achievement. Modest Genius talk 04:52, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

EU opens borders to Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia

A couple of problems: a) it's not the whole EU, just the Schengen zone (admittedly 25/27 countries) b) 'unrestricted' is a bit steep, they just don't need visas. There will still be border posts and passport checks. If they had joined Schengen and the border posts were coming down, I would support, but they're not. Modest Genius talk 14:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. I withdraw my nom. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:01, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
(ec) I think this is a big story. Including EU and 3 countries. Still, it is important to know that this is only valid for tourist visits, so I wonder whether the word unrestricted is totally in place. (and, obviously, people with denied entrance can not enter etc.) Support with a good blurb and article update. --Tone 15:00, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
On the other hand, there are still many restrictions. But the fresh news is that Serbia is planning to apply for EU membership next week, any opinions on that? --Tone 15:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment I would say that 'visa-free' visits for tourists, while not 'unrestricted', are a BIG deal to ordinary people. It makes it much easier to visit countries, and while I don't know about Serbia, in Russia visas are a very sensitive point of contention with the West. --Johnsemlak (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Jennifer Jones

--TouLouse (talk) 13:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose, 90 years old so she'd more than had her three-score-years-and-ten; never actually an Oscar winner, despite five nominations; hasn't been "active" in her field for 35 years (according to the article infobox). I can't see how this would pass the death criteria, especially today is not exactly "slow news". Physchim62 (talk) 13:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Per above. However, she did win an Oscar. ;-) Therequiembellishere (talk) 16:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


  • Snowstorms cause severe disruption across much of Europe and the Atlantic seaboard of the United States. Physchim62 (talk) 13:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if we have articles on these yet, but it seems nice to unite bothe sides of the Atlantic as a starter to the festive period… Physchim62 (talk) 13:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Strongly support. In fact, I came here to propose the article I have created for the Atlantic side, North American blizzard of 2009 --Shirik (talk) 23:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I added the following blurb:
Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 05:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Five deaths. --candlewicke 09:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. Skipping the retail sales from the blurb. --Tone 11:50, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The article needs conversion of units. At the moment, only imperial units are used, metric should be added as well. Could anyone fix that? --Tone 11:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
  Done Shirik (talk) 13:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Incidentally, why just North America? This seems too America-centric; this storm is run of the mill for the US. In the UK, it's not; Eurostar had to cancel its services until further notice. Sceptre (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:33, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

GJ 1214 b

Very nice but there are too many speculations in the article at the moment. When they are more certain, what kind of water there is, that will be another story. --Tone 22:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, the article is in a good shape, and we can just state obvious facts like: "The discovery of GJ 1214 b, an extrasolar super-Earth in the constellation Ophiuchus, is announced." How about that? --BorgQueen (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree, the article is nice, but just reporting discovery? According to List of extrasolar planets, more than 80 of those have been discovered this year alone! (I know I'm conservative here but I've had my share of posting inaccurate or incomplete things on ITN...) --Tone 22:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
If and when water is confirmed, 'Support, this is very important. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Could use for balancing against a creep of politics-related stories often found on ITN. Colipon+(Talk) 23:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
This planet is probably in between Neptune and Earth in terms of size, but closer to Neptune in terms of composition. It is orbiting more than 10 times closer to the star than Mercury is, but the star is about 1/5 of our Sun. This could be actually interesting for ITN. Nergaal (talk) 23:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose', but only after reading the abstract of the original paper. The atmosphere (even if it's autogenic) is hydrogen and helium, so we're talking about something nearer to Neptune than to Earth. As such, it's obviously important in its field (otherwise it wouldn't be in Nature) but I can't see a reason to put it on the main page. Physchim62 (talk) 01:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
A reason? It is the only known Super-Earth exoplanet with a confirmed atmosphere. And it is also the second smallest exoplanet, trailing behind only CoRoT-7b. --bender235 (talk) 02:37, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
We currently have more supports than opposes. Going to post soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Ok, if this is posted, it should mention the atmosphere, otherwise it's better to remove it because of the reasons I gave above. --Tone 11:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

December 18

ITN candidates for December 18

Google is found guilty of copyright infringement in France

  • A Paris court finds Google guilty of copyright infringement, sentencing it to pay 300,000 euros in damages and interest to French publisher La Martiniere, and 10,000 euros a day until it removes extracts of the books from its database. [16] --BorgQueen (talk) 22:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Probably Google Book Search#Copyright infringement.2C fair use and related issues needs to be updated, if this nom is approved. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Google Book Search is updated. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Hmm... google found violating copyrights hmm... isn't this something common ? but the sentence is too high so I think we should go for it.--yousaf465' 04:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
While I'm not so sure if this particular incident is quite newsworthy, I believe that the Google Books project is very significant and it's been generating a lot of (generally low profile) news lately.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Azores discovery

Link: [17] - TouLouse (talk) 11:42, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

support if someone can suggest an article to create/ expand?? HJMitchell You rang? 12:00, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Is this real or did they take it from here? They are the only two English language sources I could find for "Fried Egg". --candlewicke 14:27, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The BBC article says it uses a poster at conference as source, and these are often not peer-reviewed (unsure about this meeting) and can include preliminary results. Narayanese (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose until published in a peer-reviewed journal, which should be a minimum requirement for all science stories. Modest Genius talk 10:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
We would never have any space stories on that criterion! (mind you, I think fewer space stories would not be a bad thing) I don't think the lack of obvious peer-review is a problem here, more the lack of anything to say about the subject. Nobody is doubting the basic data, and the authors are being wisely sceptical as to what might have caused these features. Oppose for no article. Physchim62 (talk) 00:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

BA Strike

An injunction is issued in favour of British Airways by the English High court blocking a proposed cabin crew strike scheduled for twelve days coinciding with Christmas and New Year

I admit the blurb's not perfect but I welcome suggestions. This has been big news in the UK- it was estimated to potentially affect a million people travelling on BA over Christmas and, legally (sorry, I'm a law student!), it's quite significant since the High Court doesn't often get involved in industrial disputes. Working on updating an article. HJMitchell You rang? 02:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd support if the strike actually happens, which I gather is now unlikely.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:50, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
That's kind of the point. They were going to strike over Christmas but BA have managed to get an injunction (which everyone thought was unlikely at best) against it on some technicality. HJMitchell You rang? 03:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
But a proposed cabin crew strike... it still may not have happened. I would support if it did happen though due to the chaos it would cause. It is mentioned by Time - quote: "Industrial action could have cost Europe's third biggest airline as much as $50 million each day had the strike gone ahead as planned on Dec. 22". Not sure how important that really is though. Coverage in the UK but I suppose that is expected. Is there any evidence that this is the first of its kind for example? --candlewicke 14:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I don't take the "unexpected" argument either. With all respect to HJ Mitchell (talk · contribs), if s/he is a law student now, then s/he probably doesn't remember that High Court actions (in the UK, obviously) over proposed strikes were very common in the late 1980s – early 1990s. They're rarer these days because there are more precedents available for trade unions to use in organising the ballots, so they are rarely overruled. In any case, this is a point of UK law, and so probably not very relevant to a global audience. The potential disruption will be to BA's profits, and we don't usually cover such things on ITN. Physchim62 (talk) 14:32, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Ship sinks in Lebanon

Five people are believed to have been killed and dozens are believed to be missing after the livestock tranport ship Danny F II sinks off the coast of Lebanon. HJMitchell You rang?

Note MV Danny F II article also created, suggest would be a better target. If used please credit HJ Mitchell as nominator and myself as creator. Mjroots (talk) 08:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 Y agreed. I've redirected my title to yours. HJMitchell You rang? 08:51, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Support due to the massive amount of deaths. --candlewicke 14:21, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
A well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:22, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The sinking of MV Danny F II in the Mediterranean Sea kills at least five people, 10,224 sheep and 17,932 cattle. --candlewicke 14:35, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, but I think that you should also mention that 41 people are still missing - Dumelow (talk) 15:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Copenhagen climate summit threaten

On Friday 18 December, the final day of the Copenhagen conference, international media reports that the negotiations are at risk of failure. (CBC News) Maziotis (talk) 14:07, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

When something happens I would support and/or it was already posted. --candlewicke 14:29, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
That is not the same news entry, and it is quite common to see the same article being referenced to different events, for different news. This seemed relevant to me, since the whole world is talking about how the copenhagen summit is heading to failure in the last day. I have been seeing that on the news all day. Maziotis (talk) 15:09, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I am now looking at the new entry, "Thirty world leaders present in Copenhagen for the United Nations Conference on Climate Change agree on a draft accord." I am guessing that this is a more recent entry, presented as a candidate for the ITN. Maziotis (talk) 15:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Some agreement has been reached, waiting for article updates and a good blurb... --Tone 21:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Why not go ahead with the news on the draft? The attention that has been given to this on the news seems to justify it. Maziotis (talk) 21:30, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has to be updated first, per this. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:41, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if it is the blurb that we are looking for, but I have just updated the article. Anyway, my initial proposal in this section is still up-to-date, and follows that criteria in terms of the article being updated. Maziotis (talk) 21:52, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
You mean this? That's too short. At least five sentences with three different references please. --BorgQueen (talk) 22:00, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
According to the BBC talks are still going on. It appears it will be newsworthy when they finally sign something. Let's wait for now.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

redent Agree absolutely with Johnsemlak (talk · contribs). We should wait a few hours until we know the actual result of the climate summit, a bit like we do for elections ;) There will obviously be a Copenhagen Summit story (COP15 or COPout), but I'm not sure we know what it is yet in encyclopedic terms. Physchim62 (talk) 13:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

11th hour Copenhagen deal reached, not binding

The US, China, India, South Africa reach nonbinding deal. [18] Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

It does include Brazil. Updated, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:29, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Would the pictured logo better be the COP15 logo instead of the state emblem of Pakistan Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
No, the logo is not a free image. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:17, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I see. I was wondering about that. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
For whenever a deal is finalized, according to the 5th FAQ question [], cop15civil aT would be the email address to contact to ask for permission to use the logo. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Please ask them yourself, thanks. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I was going to, but didn't know how to get the reply to someone official enough in Wikipedia in a way that said reply would be certifiable, or what the minimum standard for surety is. Is there a Wikipedia email that receive limited permissions that I can carbon copy when asking? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:40, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Are these the only countries in the agreement? Surely there are more. --PlasmaTwa2 07:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
As I posted above, the BBC continues at the time of writing to say talks are still ongoing. I strongly suggest we take this down until we have a final result, which appears to be likely today.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Removed, per objections. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
BBC has just reported that Climate summit recognises US deal. Still not a lot of details available however. I'd say let's wait a bit for the dust to settle, not to mention getting the Wikipedia article updated.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Auschwitz theft

(BBC) Someone has stolen the infamous Arbeit Macht Frei sign from the gates of Auschwitz concentration camp. There has been a bit of an update at the Arbeit Macht Frei article but it will need more before it goes up. Is this notable enough for us? The BBC article includes some reactions from pretty important people. We also have a free image of the sign - Dumelow (talk) 15:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Support. This is history and this is an encyclopedia. Lots of reaction, making headlines as far away as Australia, a reward has been offered, it is also the first time this has ever happened. --candlewicke 17:53, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Just news. And first time? How often would one expect something like that to happen? --Tone 19:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Quite often unfortunately. --candlewicke 20:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
This article in The Times today shows how seriously this is being treated by many countries. "The slickly organised theft of one of the most potent symbols of the Holocaust sent a wave of outrage around the world yesterday". "Poland is treating the recovery of the sign from the site, near Cracow, as a matter of national honour". "President Peres of Israel held an emergency meeting with Donald Tusk, the Polish Prime Minister, on the sidelines of the UN climate summit in Copenhagen to express “the deepest shock”". And there are sniffer dogs being deployed according to the BBC. --candlewicke 05:43, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Support if the article is up to scratch. Vandalism of historical sites is unfortunately common but this is an extremely powerful (and recognizable) artifact of one of the 20th century's most horrific events.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Support sephia karta | di mi 23:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
The main article section now seems to be at Auschwitz_concentration_camp#.22Arbeit_macht_frei.22_sign_theft and has had a bit of an update - Dumelow (talk) 12:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
A nice blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

December 17

ITN candidates for December 17

Supreme Court judgment National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO)

The article has been updated and also pov issues have been removed so I think we should post it now.--yousaf465' 14:10, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Fine with me.sephia karta | di mi 14:19, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:28, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks.yousaf465' 14:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


  • The collapse of UK airline Flyglobespan leaves more than 4,000 passengers stranded in several countries. According to BBC: About 4,500 passengers are stranded - mostly in Spain, Portugal, Cyprus and Egypt. While this is not exactly a life-threatening disaster, it did affect a quadruple-digit number of people. Any comments? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
The BBC News TV said yesterday that it was Scotland's biggest airline (I personally have not heard of it, maybe it is better known north of the border). 800 jobs have also gone at the company. I am not sure whether to support this or not, is the collapse of airlines a common occurrence? - Dumelow (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Airliners don't collapse on regular intervals never heard of a sudden collapse before. Usually they go bankrupt like it was the case with Pan Am.--yousaf465' 14:22, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, honestly I can't believe they just left thousands of passengers stranded abroad. Quite outrageous. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:30, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Well in that case it seems to be something unusual, so are we going to post it ?--yousaf465' 14:35, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
The article needs more citations. Would you help? I have to go to bed soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
By that time I was gone, also see the list of oppose down here.--yousaf465' 04:27, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for the moment. Airlines collapse fairly regularly – there are 21 articles in Category:Airlines disestablished in 2009 – and that usually leaves people stranded for a while. There might be an interesting angle on the reasons for the collapse, but for the moment this does't even make it as a top-three article on BBC UK news, so is hardly significant enough for a global readership. 4,500 people is not very many for the European aviation market, and repatriation is underway. Physchim62 (talk) 15:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
747 is not 4,000+ but this also happened recently. --candlewicke 21:47, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. An airline, especially one that's little known, collapsing is not that big an event. I live in northern England and it's not well known here. Perhaps it is in Scotland, but I'd be inclined to say that unless we're dealing with a national carrier, like British Airways, Quantas, Lufthansa or a large, highly notable airline like American Airlines or even, at a stretch, Easyjet but I'm afraid a not out-of-the-ordinary airline collapse is not that newsworthy. HJMitchell You rang? 23:50, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Seems to be a little known airline even in its home country (the UK). The story sounds dramatic at first reading perhaps ('4500 left stranded') but from what I've read these people will almost certainly be flown back. Cancelled flights are commonplace occurrences ultimately.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:25, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I have also seen airliners getting collapsed , such as Aero Asia International but they are usually informed of such case. Never heard that a airliner collapses out of the blue and leave many of it's customers stranded.--yousaf465' 04:27, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, airlines collapsing whilst its passengers are abroad has happened many times. Can't remember the name, but there was a big case of that with another UK airliner this year or late last year. Took up the main headlines for days, and other airliners and the government stepped in to help bring the passengers home. HonouraryMix (talk) 14:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Just typed in "Stranded airline bust" into Google, narrowed it to results from 2008, and look how many stories come up about various airlines going bust whilst people are abroad. An unfortunately common occurrence. HonouraryMix (talk) 14:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

December 16

ITN candidates for December 16

Death of Kelly Kwalik

  • The leader of Papua's separatist movement is killed in a shootout with Indonesian police. According to the BBC, he "has been on Indonesia's most wanted list for years". "After years of hunting him in the vast jungles of the Indonesian province, officials say they have finally got their man". The Sydney Morning Herald says he "was behind a string of deadly attacks on Indonesians and foreigners, including Australian miner Drew Grant". However, the nature of his death is also controversial if these quotes from the Jakarta Globe are true, "Kelly has never done anything criminal to disrupt the security in the region. This is pure fabrication by people working with those wishing to ruin the region", "I have spoken with Kelly and he said he was not the one who carried out the terrorist acts" and "This shooting has certainly disrupted the process by destroying the Papuans’ trust in the government of Indonesia". --candlewicke 21:41, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when created. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Might have some time tomorrow (or the next day) if no one beats me. --candlewicke 21:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment, depends on how big this man was in Papua's Separatist movevement, i.e.: was he the leader of just one small group or was he the most important man within the whole movement, and for how long had he been the leader. sephia karta | di mi 14:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, based on the readings he doesn't seem significant enough for a front mention. Wizardman 17:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Roy E. Disney

  • CNN. He "played a key role in the revitalization of the Walt Disney Co. and Disney's animation legacy". Involvement with Disney since 1953. Responsible for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, etc. Oscar nominations. Sailed competitively, achieving numerous records as well. He retained the title "director emeritus and consultant". And, unlike perhaps the other recent deaths, his face may be more recognisable to more people. --candlewicke 21:03, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Erm, no. Strong oppose. That I don't recognise the name, let alone the face, is irrelevant: how is this person "responsible" for the movies that Candlewicke quotes? As far as I can read from the article, he was merely an active shareholder, so not ITN material. Physchim62 (talk) 23:06, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. What Physchime said. If he were seen as an active business leader the way Steve Jobs is, maybe.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for the same reason. sephia karta | di mi 14:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Supreme Court judgment excepted on National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO)

The judgment will out in another 2 to 3 hours.--yousaf465' 09:10, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The article is currently tagged for neutrality and probably requires more citations before it is posted. At least three sections have no citations, the citations which are present are bare URLs and one appears to be a YouTube link. --candlewicke 18:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Well it some where in the late middle in the night and I have just woken up to remind that NRO has been thrown out of the windows. You know half of the country is distributing sweets and while other half is been forcefully shutdown. We have to get that article ready for posting, its too important now. Even Mr 10%(this is just a nickname)'s spokesman's described it as "shocking". Here are the few links to start with Dawn1 and Dawn2. I think a non Pakistani editor would be more suited to edit the article for ITN as to establish neutrality.--yousaf465' 22:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Fore links check out google news 's list of article--yousaf465' 22:38, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

It's a BLP violation to list those folks as a beneficiary of immunity against corruption investigations without a cite, so oppose. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates) 01:14, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

agree with YM. this however is a significant event in Pakistan's continued 'descent into chaos'. would support after the article has been improved. have added several citations to RS.Wikireader41 (talk) 02:41, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Well I just laugh at such a comment 'descent into chaos', this shows that you are not familiar with the current situation in Pakistan. As far BLP is concerned we can deal with it. This list is being read right now behind me on Tv.--yousaf465' 04:21, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Th article has been updated and also some BLP issues have been removed. Any editor can now check it for neutrality and if something is wrong, either report to anyone of current active editor working on the article or fix it themselves.--yousaf465' 05:51, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yegor Gaidar dies aged 53

Support he was also an acting prime minister of Russia, for what that's worth. --PlasmaTwa2 08:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when the article is updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has been impressively expanded. Any objections? (I am sure there will be one or two... "The ITN is not an obituary section", etc.) --BorgQueen (talk) 14:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I think this undermines the consensus on the new death criterion - again. I haven't heard about this guy either and I do consider myself fairly knowledgable in general. __meco (talk) 14:13, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm really unsure now, so I will at least retract my vote. I still wish these deaths of famous people would have a higher threashhold, i.e. occur more seldom. __meco (talk) 19:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support: he's quite (in)famous, and his death came rather sudden, at an early age.sephia karta | di mi 14:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose not well known enough, and he's been out of office for 17 years. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 14:41, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: I dare wager he is better known than Paul Samuelson, in that every economist will be familiar with Gaidar, and on top of that (if I am correct) most Russians will know (and generally hate) him.sephia karta | di mi 14:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, if only to counter the "I haven't heard of him" argument – quite pathetic, IMHO, for a project which pretends to write an encyclopedia! The "17 years out of office" argument is infinitely stronger, but we should remember that Gaidar was instrumental in making Russia what it is today (take that how you like;). He was also the subject of a bisarre incident in Ireland in 2006, which he alleges was poisoning: 53 years old is very young for a wealthy and influential man to die in his bed. Physchim62 (talk) 16:23, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong support of this support message. Gaidar (with Yeltsin) is the founder of new Russia [19]. He worked until his death (for example, yesterday (15 december) interview and yesterday conference). Gaidar has predicted the crisis. He wrote books (for example 2007 sensational "Collapse of an Empire"). etc etc etc --TarzanASG (talk) 18:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. 53 years is not very old at all. How well known is well known enough or how exactly is this measured? The "17 years out of office" argument doesn't seem very strong at all in my opinion — it would be interesting if this is applied to Jimmy Carter, Margaret Thatcher, George H. W. Bush and countless others when it their turn to be nominated here in similar circumstances. Not convinced by any of the opposes but this person is easily as important to Russia as any of those are to their countries and seems in line with what has been posted before (Raúl Alfonsín was 20 years out of office when he died aged 29 years older, for example) so I see no reason to oppose. --candlewicke 18:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
I am going to post this, based on the rationale that the "I've never heard of him" is not a valid argument, especially when judging the notability of someone from a non-English speaking country. In my country, a vast majority of well-educated, "knowledgable" people have never heard of Ted Kennedy, whose death was enthusiastically featured on ITN, and he had never even been a head of government for any length of time. Yegor Gaidar certainly meets our current death criteria: The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such. And he was a head of government (for a short time), and his death was unexpected. If anyone does not like our current death criteria, they will have to start a discussion to have it reworded. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Well said BorgQueen! FWIW, "I've never heard of him" is a pathetic argument. I've never heard of him, but he seems to have been very significant in Russia, even if it was 17 years ago. Also FWIW, I've never heard of a veined octopus (or Amphioctopus marginatus as it's now been changed to) but nobody really disputed the significance of the event. HJMitchell You rang? 19:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
While "it's on the front pages" is another 'argument' that isn't well received, Gaidar's death did get significant coverage in the global media, the #2 slot on BBC world news to give just one example. It's not just people on WP:ITN/C who think that the death is worth reporting. Physchim62 (talk) 19:55, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
I do support this, in part because the article seems quite good. However, I can see where some opposition could come from. He was an important figure for a brief (though very crucial) period of time (he was briefly (a few months) prime minister under President Yeltsin, though he's seen as an economist mainly). I certainly think many people would oppose posting the death of an American who had been a top economic advisor for three years. Another issue is that I think he gets a lot of favorable treatment in Western media because he's seen as a brilliant liberal reformer in Russia--I don't think the same media would care about a more Soviet-oriented leader of similar power, e.g. Evgeny Primakov.--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Support Hopefully this doesnt get pulled YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates) 01:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

December 15

ITN candidates for December 15

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner takes its maiden flight

Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:36, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, this is a long awaited event (and an important one for public aviation) - Dumelow (talk) 18:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment - That's what I call bias. First flight of a Boeing, ITN, first flight of an Airbus, not ITN. Same month, one week apart, two new planes, different treatment. Hektor (talk) 19:26, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Strong oppose. The Airbus A400M, the world's biggest turboprop airliner, had its first flight last week: The "Dreamliner" is way behind in the significance queue. Physchim62 (talk) 19:29, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
The A400M is a military aircraft with 184 orders, the Dreamliner is a civilian airliner with 840 orders (besides, I thought the Antonov An-22 was the world's biggest turboprop?). I would have had no problems with having the Airbus A380 on ITN, I don't know whether it was featured or not. I didn't have an opinion on whether the A400M should have gone up as I hadn't heard of it until then but I think most people know of the Dreamliner (as they knew of the A380). I think more people will be affected by a new type of civil airliner than by a purely military aircraft (should we, for example, feature new fighters etc?) - Dumelow (talk) 19:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Support - The Airbus A400M, IMHO, should have been posted when it was nominated last week, but the submission down below just didn't seem to attract sufficient attention at the time. That's unfortunate, but it's a human process and these things get missed from time to time. There's no reason to assume bad faith. Opposing the 787 in a tit for tat gesture is ridiculous. The Tom (talk) 20:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

This isn't really related, but it's been a good day on ITN, it seems. All the stories on it seem quite notable, and it spans so many different topics! Science, biography, geo-politics, aviation. Much better than the usual "X won election in Y state" etc. Colipon+(Talk) 20:18, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Hear hear. Modest Genius talk 00:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


The OECD is a significant international organization and this is the first enlargement during more than nine years. Of course, alternatively it could be published in the main page on 11 January 2010 when Chile signs the accession agreement. Beagel (talk) 17:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Let's wait until Chile actually joins. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:09, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when it actually joins. Modest Genius talk 00:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
When it joins. WP:ITN/FE? --candlewicke 18:16, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Tzipi Livni

Not sure about this one, seems borderline, but the article has been updated so I shall put it up for other to comment on. Issuing arrest warrants for war crimes against leading politicians is hardly an everyday event. There are plenty of free images of Livni on commons. Physchim62 (talk) 14:23, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
I considered to nominate this myself, but the problem is that it has been rescinded. If the warrant is still valid I would have supported, but now... well. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:30, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
The warrant was rescinded on a technical point – that Livni wasn't in the UK nor expected to be – so that leaves the judicial issue open that another warrant could be issued in the future. I can see a couple of other valid reasons to oppose posting from the BBC paper, but I thought I'd see what other editors think as well. Mine is only a weak support. Physchim62 (talk) 14:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: In that case, I say make it a news item when the time comes.sephia karta | di mi 16:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose The fact this warrant was rescinded makes this a non-issue in my mind. HonouraryMix (talk) 18:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

December 14

ITN candidates for December 14

Veined Octopus

Support. Sounds good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sephia karta (talkcontribs)
Updated. Posting soon, if there is no objection. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:27, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Ground breaking discovery, highly featured on a lot of news sites and channels. However, can we change "recorded" to "known" or "observed" or some such since it's quite conceivable there could be hundreds of invertebrates doing this sort of thing and this happens to be the first that humans have witnessed. HJMitchell You rang? 13:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Reworded to "known" since it is shorter. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:33, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Could we change "it is reported that…" to "the veined octopus is observed retrieving"? Its still a passive sentence, I admit, but the evidence is there for all to see (even made into onto Spanish TV news this lunchtime). Physchim62 (talk) 14:12, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I will try it. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Launch of WISE

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Launching space probes is what NASA does for a living, it's done it for nearly fifty years now, there's nothing special about this one. Physchim62 (talk) 21:22, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Ah, thanks a lot. I am going to revert it back for now. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
As listed on WP:ITNR: 'The launch of satellites, shuttles, and any space mission in general.'. We list every single space shuttle mission, why should we not list the first NASA astronomy launch since Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope 18 months ago? Modest Genius talk 22:56, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
This probably isn't the place to discuss it, but as a comment, I don't think we should discuss every single space mission. This particular mission doesn't seem to be particularly significant within the general encyclopedic area of space missions: it's doing something that's been done before, but a bit better. Physchim62 (talk) 23:04, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
The same could be said about Planck, Spitzer, the International Space Station etc, they're all 'just' better ways of doing the same thing. WISE will be at least 1,000 times better than all previous all-sky IR surveys. Modest Genius talk 23:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. It's ITNR, and it's a good article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Comment:What I have seen until now is that, we feature launch of every thing larger than a football into space(if somebody report it here). Also as User:Modest Genius mentioned this is also in our guide book.--yousaf465' 05:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:23, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - Nothing too special. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 22:21, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Central Asia – China gas pipeline

Leaning towards support. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Article is decent and this is a big topic. --Tone 08:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. This is important geopolitically. We recently had the Nord Stream project featured on ITN (September 17). This is comparable to that. __meco (talk) 11:15, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon if there is no objection... --BorgQueen (talk) 14:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Orient Express

  • The Orient Express ceases to operate. [23] [24] I have to admit that I am not really familiar with the train service. Just wondered if its end would be notable enough for us? --BorgQueen (talk) 06:14, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I take it from the article that it has been shortened over the past few years. I'm not sure there is anything notable about this aside from the historical value. Oppose --PlasmaTwa2 06:26, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Ditto. Not ITN stuff, given the recent status of the line. --Tone 08:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment. This railroad is highly iconic, and in my estimation it could even be said to epitomize an era, or at least a central aspect of an era, of modern western civilization. I think its final closing down has symbolic value that we ought not to overlook __meco (talk) 11:19, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Support I wouldn't go quite a far as Meco, but the railway is very well known- there have been books writtena bout it, television programmes (and I think films) made about it. HJMitchell You rang? 17:41, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, Agatha Christie's Murder on the Orient Express and Ian Fleming's From Russia, with Love, to name a few. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:45, 14 December 2009 (UTC).
I would say it's one of the two most famous railway lines in the world, along with the Trans-Siberian railroad. That said, the last Paris-Istanbul train ran in 1977. I like this item for its iconic historic value but the fact is that for a long time the 'Orient Express' has been that in name only. Also, posting this item might be very misleading, making people think that the actual Paris-Istanbul line is being discontinued presently. --Johnsemlak (talk) 18:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Support: The end of the Orient Express is definitely an historic event. But the service has watered down to the extent where the train doesn't even reach the 'orient' anymore (anything beyond Vienna). Still, I say include it with the wording "the last remnant of the Orient Express".sephia karta | di mi 19:02, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Support - notable.  Cargoking  talk  19:15, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd go for a support on this one as it is (finally) the end of what is perhaps the most famous train line in the world - Dumelow (talk) 23:06, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I think this has sufficient support. How about: "The original Orient Express train service, established in 1883, is discontinued". I used original to avoid confusion with the Venice-Simplon Orient Express private service per here. You could insert "the last remnant of" if you wanted (per User:sephia karta) - Dumelow (talk) 12:26, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, the article currently needs more citations. If anyone is willing to help, it will be appreciated. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
You are absolutely right, I can't believe that there are only five refs for the whole article! Maybe someone will add a few more - Dumelow (talk) 12:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, I cannot believe that Wikipedia editors have not had an interest in improving this. Alas I have not much time until at least the weekend to even attempt such a gigantic task. --candlewicke 18:12, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Death of Paul Samuelson

Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 01:58, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
A former winner of the Nobel Prize for Economics definetly meets the death criteria, I think. Support --PlasmaTwa2 02:03, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
This issue has come up before, and while I agree any Nobel laureate is a notable individual, the fact is there are ten or so of them every year. I'm not familiar enough with his impact on economics. I would have considered John Kenneth Galbraith a cinch to be posted as a notable economist. How does Samuelson compare?--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
According to this source, he was an adviser to two U.S. presidents, and his "signature textbook", Economics: An Introductory Analysis, has been translated into 40 languages and sold more than 4 million copies. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:53, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has been updated. Blurb: U.S. economist Paul Samuelson, a Nobel laureate and one of the founders of neo-Keynesian economics, dies at the age of 94. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:01, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
The ITN update is overdue. Posting soon, believing there won't be any objections. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:21, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Weak oppose. I do have a minor objection; partially on the US centricity, but also because ITN is meant to present current events in fairly good shape; this article certainly is not in good shape. Though maybe I'm just being bureaucratic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wizardman (talkcontribs)
I might have agreed with you 15 minutes ago. The article has just been significantly expanded by User:Wikiwatcher1. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
We could add a photo of him, the article has a PD one. (And the PKK flag is drawing complains so it would be time for a change.) --Tone 08:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Have the death criteria on ITN undergone a major change in the recent months? I never followed the debate, but I seem to recall that deaths were generally not a topic for ITN except in very special cases. I certainly do not think everyone who has received a Nobel Prize should get an ITN spot when they die. We have real news. Things are happening in the world. Unless the death of this individual which, buy the way, I have not heard of, has caused a surge in discussing his scientific legacy with copious articles debating his work and impact (not mere obituaries) I don't approve of this becoming an ITN item. __meco (talk) 11:11, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Did you read our death criteria? It says: The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such. According to this, Samuelson certainly qualifies. If you think this needs to be changed, you might want to start a new discussion on Wikipedia talk:In the news. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:55, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
And the fact you haven't personally heard of him is quite irrelevant, because his field is a highly specialized one. In fact, I haven't heard of him either, but then I don't know anyone in modern economics. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:00, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
That is however my point in a nutshell. We are presenting this to the world as something everybody should consider an important event. Now, why should people start getting interested in Neo-Keynesian economics because this person dies? They shouldn't. They should have this discipline in a top world headline if something important in the economcs science or world economy made it relevant. Neo-Keynesian economics is no more essntial reading now than it was the day before he died. I am abhorred by the laxity and consequences of that guideline. __meco (talk) 13:51, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I might add that the link which you provided requires a consensus for the item to be posted. Just to polemicize briefly against these criteria, they open for adding the death of a person based on simply that "The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such." That is absurd. How many fields of expertise are there? And this single criterion would suffice to fulfill that criterion. If this is taken to its logical conclusion we will have scores of Nobel Prize laureates in the ITN headlines every year (a lot of prizes are shared), and Nobel Prize laureates of course constitute only a small fraction of all people who die who would qualify by these criteria. __meco (talk) 14:02, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
When the past discussion to revise the death criteria was initiated the rationale was as follwos: should the death criterion be changed to occasionally list one or two deaths of extremely notable people whose deaths don't warrant substantial article updates? In 2007 and 2008, the deaths of Pavarotti, Arthur C. Clarke, Edmund Hillary, Bobby Fischer, and Charlton Heston were not included because—despite their widely acknowledged notability and importance." That gist I can understand. What is happening here if this headline isn't taken out of the ITN box would be detrimental to the cohesion of the consensus which cemented the revised guideline. __meco (talk) 14:08, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I might add that the link which you provided requires a consensus for the item to be posted. I am aware of that, and I did obtain consensus, didn't I? You are the only one who is opposing this, in fact, you are opposting the current death criteria, implemented by User:Spencer in February 2009, itself. While I agree that we shouldn't list every Nobel laureate's death, Samuelson's status stands out even among them. According to our article: The Swedish Royal Academies stated, when awarding the prize, that he "has done more than any other contemporary economist to raise the level of scientific analysis in economic theory."[1] Economic historian Randall E. Parker calls him the "Father of Modern Economics",[2] and The New York Times considered him to be the "foremost academic economist of the 20th century."[3]
Having said that, you are entitled to make objections to the current criteria if you think it should be changed. Please feel free to start a new discussion on Wikipedia talk:In the news, as I suggested before. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I stand down. __meco (talk) 14:35, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

December 13

ITN candidates for December 13

Paul Samuelson

Support as nominator The passing of an intellectual giant of indisputable, worldwide, historical notability certainly merits mention in our little box once the article is updated more. Madcoverboy (talk) 00:39, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Already nominated above. Still, thank you for your nom. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:09, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Philippines Prison Raid

Probably worth keeping an eye on this in case any notable islamists have been freed --Daviessimo (talk) 10:31, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. However, I don't think there's enough information yet to determine how "newsworthy" the story is. I'll add it to P:CE anyway. HJMitchell You rang? 11:19, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


A reliable spectacular meteor shower the Geminids (occurs annually in December) will occur December 7-17, 2009 with the most favourable conditions the night of December 13, 14 for viewing 120 yellow, green and blue meteors per hour.IMO[25]SriMesh | talk 20:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. Whilst meteor showers are nice, they're also pretty common (yes I know this is likely to be the best in 2009 for North America). Personally I think we should wait until there's a meteor storm (ZHR>1,000) before putting it up, otherwise we have several problems, viz 1) we would have to include at least the Geminids, Leonids, Orionids and Perseids every year, at a minimum 2) when exactly do we post it, especially for the longer showers which can last a week with no obvious peak date? 3) are they actually 'in the (mainstream) news' anywhere? Modest Genius talk 17:58, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Catalan villages ponder independence

This one is being reported in Germany, Netherlands, France and as far away as Taiwan and Argentina. --candlewicke 15:44, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
I am tempted, but still... the referendum was informal. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:49, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. This has no legal status, and is nothing more than a large-scale opinion poll. Modest Genius talk 17:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Turnout was lower than hoped for – about 30% (it was a cold, wet and windy day here in Catalonia…) – but that's still 200,000 voters, rather more than a "large-scale opinion poll"! I think the story can probably wait, as there will be more polls in February and April. The article (Catalonian independence referendums, 2009–2010) isn't in great shape either. Physchim62 (talk) 21:55, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

December 12

ITN candidates for December 12

Annise Parker

Annise Parker becomes the first openly gay person elected Mayor of a major U.S. City, becoming Mayor-elect of Houston this evening. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Houstonbuildings (talkcontribs)

Support A similar news article was made when Johanna Siguroardottir become Prime Minister of Iceland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Houstonbuildings (talkcontribs)
Support. "Ms. Parker’s success came in a conservative state where voters have outlawed gay marriage and a city where a referendum on granting benefits to same-sex partners of city employees was soundly defeated", "it was lost on no one in Houston, a city of 2.2 million people, that her election would mark a milestone for gay men and lesbians around the country". The New York Times thinks it will affect the entire country and I see no reason to disagree when I read about events such as this from last month. --candlewicke 05:31, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Support per Candlewicke because of the election's broader implications and with the caveat that this should have no precedential impact on future municipal politics suggestions. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 06:45, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
The article is in a good condition; I am going to post soon if there is no objection. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:44, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I remember several years ago it was suggested adding the mayor of Portland, who was the first openly gay person to be elected Mayor of a major U.S. City. I believe we decided not to put it up for several reasons, which sadly I cannot remember. --PlasmaTwa2 09:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
PS: Spare me the "But it's in Texas" stuff, please. --PlasmaTwa2 09:52, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose According to this BBC article, Houston is not the first US city to elect an openly gay mayor, so, as such, this is not as notable as it seems --Daviessimo (talk) 10:28, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Neutral. To clarify, the beeb article says that Houston is the largest US city to have elected an openly gay mayor so far, which could be quite notable. Two of the others are Portland, Oregon and Providence, Rhode Island. I'd have to know which other cities are on the list before I can form an opinion on its notability/newsworthiness. HJMitchell You rang? 11:28, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Citing that at least Portland was before Houston posting this would just be too US-centric, even if acknowledging that Texas is a much more conservative state than Oregon. __meco (talk) 12:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
'Response'. The Term Major is ambiguous, in my opinion it means Top 10 cities, or over One Million, both of course Houston fulfills, while Portland and Providence do not fulfill either one. Houstonbuildings (talk) 15:45, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Houston is the largest city in the WORLD to elect an openly gay mayor. Houstonbuildings (talk) 18:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

It's a close call, but Paris (France, not Texas!) has a population which is almost exactly the same as Houston's, and has had an openly gay mayor (Bertrand Delanoë) since 2001. Physchim62 (talk) 19:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. As per reasons above, though this one is close IMO.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:52, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Congratulations to the lady, but I don't think this story has enough surprise value to be featured on the main page. IMHO, both Portland, Oregon, and Providence, Rhode Island, are notable U.S. cities – we're not talking about Hicksville, Nostate, in either case, even if both are much smaller in population than Houston. To argue that Texas is a conservative state is being a bit UScentric for my taste. Would we putting up the election of a gay mayor of Glasgow, Scotland? I think not, and that's why I don't think we should include this one either. Physchim62 (talk) 20:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Response. Houston is larger than Glascow, it is larger than Winnipeg, and it is larger than Paris. I think it is the largest city in the world to elect an openly gay mayor. Houstonbuildings (talk) 21:43, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
It might be the largest by a few thousand people, but I would consider Paris to be much more important internationally, and obviously the position of mayor in Paris is much more significant than mayor of Houston (Not to mention the metro area of Paris is double that of Houston, though the mayor doesn't really factor into that). Besides, being the largest of something is no reason to put it on ITN. The fact is that Houston is not the first major city anywhere to elect an openly gay mayor. --PlasmaTwa2 23:20, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
It is purely an opinion to say that while Paris is smaller, it is more important. An opinion that denies equal opportunity to American Issues. When the Prime Minister of Iceland was mentioned, it was for Head of Government. (The Prime Minister of Iceland does not have as much power as President). Houstonbuildings (talk) 00:17, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
It is not only an opinion that I share; I use the global city and List of cities by GDP articles as reference. Paris is considered one of the most important cities in the world by many people; Houston is not. Its metro area is twice as big and its GDP is sixth largest in the world; Houston's isn't even the biggest in Texas. And once again, I say that even if it is the largest city by population, it is not the first American city to elect a gay mayor. You claiming major city as being in the top ten population-wise is purely your opinion as well. I will not comment on the Irish Prime Minister, though the Head of Government of a country is much more important than a mayor. --PlasmaTwa2 01:12, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
And to put this to bed, Berlin elected a gay mayor in 2001. The population of Berlin is 3.4 million. --PlasmaTwa2 01:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Question Is Houston the first city to elect a lesbian mayor? How significant would that be?--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I think pretty notable. Berlin, Paris, Winnipeg, Portland, and Providence all elected gay men. Houstonbuildings (talk) 03:39, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
ITN has traditionally made no seperation between men and women. Last week when the first lesbian was elected a bishop of the Anglican church, it was decided that it was not notable, as she was the second gay person to be elected bishop. I'll use the same argument that Tone used a week ago: If we go by sexual orientation, there have been other openly gay people who have been elected as mayor in bigger cities. --PlasmaTwa2 04:14, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose If this was the first openly-gay person elected mayor in the US, I would be up for supporting. However, Portland is hardly an inconsequential place. The suggestion that we should put this up just because Houston has a bigger population has a horrible precedent; do we then nominate every mayor-elect for a city that has a larger pop than Houston? We have to consider this from a worldwide perspective; one city in a country which has already elected gay mayors before getting its own gay mayor is not significant enough, in my opinion. HonouraryMix (talk) 14:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

If a city with One Million people elected a gay mayor, then I see your point, but Houston is 5 times as big as Portland. As Well as the second largest city in the world with a gay mayor. Additionally, with Plasma's point about the Anglican Church Bishop, this was the second time it ever happened. Gay Mayors have been elected many times before as you point out, but never with a Woman. With the Anglican Bishop case, we do not know what percentage will be male or female because we have only had 2 cases. With the Mayor case, we have had 6 major cases, all being men. Houstonbuildings (talk) 15:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Mark Ingram

In college football, Mark Ingram of the University of Alabama Crimson Tide wins the 2009 Heisman Trophy.[26] Entered by User:Richard. 21:56, 12 December 2009

OK, I know this doesn't have a snowball's chance, but for those of you not familiar with the Heisman Trophy, I'd like to point out that it is the most-famous individual honor in American sports and that Ingram is the first person in the rich history of Alabama football to win the award. So I'll support in what I foresee will be a losing effort. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:02, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Yes this award is certainly a big deal in college athlethics. Showtime2009 (talk) 03:24, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment The surfing item would've had laughingly easier chance of being posted than this one. –Howard the Duck 03:54, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. But I have nothing to do with any complaints. I am not in any way familiar with this trophy, Mr. Ingram or the rich history of Alabama football. --candlewicke 04:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Support High level, high profile award in a sport that draws significant attention. RxS (talk) 04:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

While I like the idea, we don't post anyother MVP awards on here. If we start with this, why not post it. We could use some good news on here. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 08:35, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree. The history of the award aside, it is a MVP award, and while I don't want to be the one to bring this up, it is an U.S.-only award. That said, most MVP awards are given at the end of the season and included with the entry about the champion, and it is reasonably well known internationally; at least in Canada, since Heisman Trophy winners have had a history in the CFL. If this goes up we better brace ourselves for the American-centric argument again. --PlasmaTwa2 09:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - Well its not just a case of American-centric arguments, it just something that highlights the systemic biases of Wikipedia. There is no other similar award from any other country that would have any chance of getting onto the main page. I mean what makes the Heisman Trophy more important than say the PFA Players' Player of the Year (which is a comparible award), given that more prestigious international awards such as the Ballon d'Or or FIFA World Player of the Year don't go up. There are also international awards in other sports like cricket and rugby that aren't listed, which again prompts the question why is American Football so important and why should it receive preferential treatment?--Daviessimo (talk) 10:24, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Besides, the articles haven't been properly updated yet. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:33, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose simply because otherwise this might be the most resilient snowball ever! Modest Genius talk 18:04, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose We didn't post the Ballon D'or, the most prestigious individual award in football. It certainly appears that individual awards for team sports don't get much luv on ITN. --Johnsemlak (talk) 19:58, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment I'm not going to argue this one too forcefully, but it's worth pointing out that the Heisman has a kind of cachet that I don't think any other individual sports honor has that I know of, in America or elsewhere. Few people know what the NFL MVP award looks like or can run down the names of NBA MVPs, but every kid with a football in America knows the "Heisman pose" and has tried to emulate it. There's even a website about it -- [27]. (Also try a Google Images search for "Heisman pose". -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:52, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Abkhazian presidential election, 2009

Abkhazia, the partially recognised breakaway state of Georgia holds the Abkhazian presidential election, 2009. If a second round is necessary it must be held before 26 December. This may or may not be ITN material depending on whether people think we should put elections of partially recognised countries up - Dumelow (talk) 11:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 22:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Support. sephia karta | di mi 20:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Regardless of people's opinions on partially recognised states, from what I know of the politics of the region, this is notable and newsworthy. HJMitchell You rang? 04:07, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when the president is elected but the blurb should mention the contested status of Abkhazia. --Tone 12:25, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Isn't it starting to get a bit ridiculous to have all Presidential elections from all European micro-states or Pacific Islands, countries which have roughly the same population as a small US city. Hektor (talk) 18:49, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Nope. It is wonderful to learn of such faraway countries. :) --candlewicke 04:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment. I'm not going to oppose because I'm an ITN inclusionist, but I agree with Hektor's point that Abkhazia has a population of only 200,000. I think it's absurd to put up a semi-sovereign territory of 200,000 and not have the results of a governor's election in a U.S. state of 20 million. Instead of establishing "rules" that all events of type X (such as national elections in partially recognized countries) or no events of type Y (such as U.S. state elections) should go up, we should judge each event individually based on the encyclopedia-ness, news value, reader interest and quality of associated Wikipedia content. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:10, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Aren't we doing that? I did anyway. It may be only partially recognised but somebody somewhere does recognise it so I still support. --candlewicke 04:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Somehow I feel that elections in small countries still have larger international consequences than elections in big American states.sephia karta | di mi 13:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Initial results are in, and they show a 59% percent first round victory for incumbent President Bagapsh. Opposition candidates have said they will contest the results.[28] sephia karta | di mi 13:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Abkhazia was been de facto independent for just about as long as Georgia has been. Houstonbuildings (talk) 18:51, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Most (all but three countries) of the world recognizes Abhazia as part of Georgia and thus these are local (i.e. non-national) elections. I agree with the above point that if we can't include major governor elections in the US (which get a lot more coverage internationally), this shouldn't be posted. If the fallout from this results in a noteworthy diplomatic row in the region, I might recommend posting that. I don't think we need to post this if the election occurs without any particular controversy. It should be said that there are many quasi 'independent' states in the former USSR--this kind of disputed status isn't really that uncommon.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:15, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: I don't think that the legality of Abkhazia makes a difference for the newsworthiness of this election. The fact of the matter is that it is internationally an independent political actor. Look at it this way: if these were really 'local' elections, Georgia wouldn't have condemned them, would it? Including election results from faraway small states, including this one, goes a long way towards countering systemic bias. FYI, there are not that many cases like Abkhazia worldwide, not more than about 8 if you include Taiwan and Kosovo.sephia karta | di mi 17:47, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
It seems that the overall consensus supports this nom, the article is in a reasonably good shape. Shall I post it? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Support posting the results for the reasons above; but how do we describe them? I suggest "Sergei Bagapsh is elected President of Abkhazia" or something along those lines. Physchim62 (talk) 16:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
How about "Sergei Bagapsh wins a 61% first round majority for a second term as President of Abkhazia, whose status is internationally disputed."?sephia karta | di mi 16:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not a sovereign state, non-notable election. It's no Palestine. Grsz11 16:32, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted. I noticed your oppose, Grsz11, but still the supports clearly outnumber the opposes. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Miss Gibraltar becomes Miss World 2009

Talking about European micro-states... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hektor (talkcontribs)

The article Kaiane Aldorino is currently too short, and the article Miss World 2009 needs more prose update. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:04, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Since we had Miss Universe on ITN, I support on condition that the article needs expansion. --Tone 19:50, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

December 11

ITN candidates for December 11

Constitutional Court of Turkey bans the Democratic Society Party

Alt blurb: The Constitutional Court of Turkey bans the Democratic Society Party and expel its chairman Ahmet Türk from the Parliament, over the party's alleged links to the Kurdistan Workers' Party. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:47, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has been properly updated and the ITN update is overdue. Let me know if anyone has objections. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:57, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Support since this was a parliamentarian party. Ahmet Türk would need some update as well. --Tone 13:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Updated; posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Gunmen seize at least 75 hostages in Philippines

  Gunmen seize at least 75 hostages in Philippines at Wikinews. Maybe?  Cargoking  talk  10:23, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Tawa (dinosaur)

Expanded, but needs more citations. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I added a few more, seems like a good choice. RxS (talk) 06:15, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm not as excited about new dinosaurs being discovered as I am about species in the human lineage. Let's not discard other important items to favor this one. __meco (talk) 07:31, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
What "other important items"? Currently this is the only one nomination with no objections, and the timer is red. (Cobell v. Salazar is a good one too, but the article is almost beyond redemption) Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't asserting there were other important items. If there aren't any I don't mind this being posted. __meco (talk) 08:50, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

First flight of the Airbus A400M

CommentWell I'm in a bit of doubt here, should we or shouldn't we feature it ITN. Personally I could but what is so special about this aircraft ? --yousaf465' 05:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Answer - First Airbus designed only for military missions, first Airbus with turboprops, first Airbus produced in Spain, designed as a successor/competitor to legendary C-130 Hercules, project with a controversial and long story. An opportunity to put the spot on military transport aircraft articles. Hektor (talk) 07:08, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I did had this in mind when I made the above comments, except for first in Spain. Well we can wait for more users input, although I'm leaning towards support.--yousaf465' 09:33, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

December 10

ITN candidates for December 10

2009 Nobel Peace Prize

Barack Obama formally accepted the Nobel Peace Prize and gave a 36-minute speech. I updated the article a bit, and I'm sure more people will update it throughout the day. I also updated the link to Wikisource to the text of his speech. Given the headlines this is getting on all major news sites, I think it should be on ITN. Otebig (talk) 14:33, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. We already featured it once. This is just a formality. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose As per BorgQueen's point. HonouraryMix (talk) 19:14, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - Ditto.  Cargoking  talk  19:26, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. There are two more suitable American nominations under yesterday. --candlewicke 21:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
OpposeAlready featured.--yousaf465' 06:15, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

New Indian state

The wording could be improved, but the announcement seems significant, and has gotten some international attention. I wouldn't be opposed to holding off on this 'til the state is formally created. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 18:02, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Let's wait until the state is actually created. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:16, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I think we should go with it now, and tie in a mention of the hunger strike by Kalvakuntla Chandrashekar Rao and the students marching on Hyderabad. The final establishment will be some months from now, and is comparatively minor news from the major political events that led to this decision being made. The Tom (talk) 21:02, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
At least 76 MLAs have resigned due to this, but I think we should wait a bit. I--yousaf465' 06:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)t's to early to put on ITN.

December 9

ITN candidates for December 9

Death of Rodrigo Carazo Odio

Former President of Costa Rica (1978 – 1982) Rodrigo Carazo Odio died. I recall that the death of Samak Sundaravej has been rejected by consensus recently; I'd like to hear opinions on this one. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:25, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose he's been out of office for 27 years. Death was expected (he was 82). And I haven't seen this covered at all in the press. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 17:54, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Oh he's been getting coverage in Xinhua, Tico Times... "Against the advice of the International Monetary Fund and his finance minister, he borrowed heavily to maintain the value of the Costa Rican currency, the colón. The policy failed and eventually resulted in a catastrophic devaluation of the colón." Can't be that forgettable. Also, "Of all the former presidents consulted (during the Central America peace talks in the 1980s), he was the first to give support to the peace plan with the firmness and integrity that characterized him". I will say support. (And Xinhua is not near Costa Rica either, is it?) --candlewicke 21:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

2009 Norwegian spiral anomaly → There has been quite a bit of international press over this night-sky anomaly that happened early this morning. MuZemike 02:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. I don't think this is ITN material, unless the cause of the phenomenon turns out to be something really exceptional. Offliner (talk) 03:24, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Support: wonderful phenomena. Human made, or natural, it's a wonderful phenomena and potentially a new natural phenomena. Interesting to see for every one. Yug (talk) 07:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. For now I don't think this merits ITN status. It's a spectacular anomaly for sure, and the fact that it was seen across a region spanning approximately 1,000 km as well as the fact that it filled large parts of the sky, in my reasoning makes all assertions that it could have been a misfired rocket seem totally ridiculous. However, that argument is as of yet my personal opinion and until mainstream media accedes that reasoning or some new developments emerge, I think this should be not be posted. __meco (talk) 09:34, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
As more sources emerge corroborating the likelihood that this was rather a misfired Russian Bulava ICBM the story appears to shift considerably. I wonder though if that story might not in itself also be an ITN candidate, but we should perhaps wait until this settles further. Also, having watched several more eyewitness videos it seems that many sightings do not appear as awe-inspiring as some do and that the quote that the phenomenon covered most of the sky only applies to a minor area within the larger geographical area where the light was observed. __meco (talk) 10:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
It has been confirmed that it was another failed test of our tragic missile. [30] Although essential for Russia's military, the missile itself has little importance outside the country, and I would only consider putting it on ITN only if the project was cancelled or if it entered service. Offliner (talk) 11:40, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I can only hope that they are not too essential to the defence of Russia if at least 6 of the past 13 launches have ended in failure! I agree, now that we know it to be one more in a series of missile launches it doesn't seem as significant - Dumelow (talk) 12:19, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Cobell v. Salazar

  • The United States government agrees to pay $3.4 billion to settle Cobell v. Salazar, a class-action lawsuit brought by Native American representatives who claimed that it has incorrectly accounted for Native American trust assets. [31][32] The settlement is the largest ever Native Americans have received from the U.S. government, ending a 13-year legal battle to resolve a dispute that dates back to the late 19th century. However, the article Cobell v. Salazar needs a major cleanup. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, this seems pretty significant. though, as you said, a lot of work is needed on the article - Dumelow (talk) 12:13, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Support, after work done on the page. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 21:14, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment I don't know about it's true significance but gauging from the the other editor's response it seems to be an important case in history of U.S.A legal system.--yousaf465' 06:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Quiksilver Big Wave Invitational

(BBC) How about this surfing competition? It is only held when the waves are large enough (40ft this year) and as such this is only the eighth time it has been held since 1985 (it is provisionally scheduled for every year). It has been won by a guy called Greg Long (who we don't have an article on yet) - Dumelow (talk) 12:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Support. --candlewicke 21:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, as far as I can tell this is just about the biggest competition in surfing. WP:ITNR material perhaps? Anyone know more about surfing than I? Modest Genius talk 05:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Surfing on ITNR? Well, if some people complain about badminton or other sports smaller than football or basketball, this would really draw complains. And the article is really short. Leaning towards oppose. --Tone 09:51, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose There is too much important happening in the world at the present time that we should give space to such "lighter" items. __meco (talk) 07:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Surfing as a sport is not recognised by the IOC or most international bodies. Important sporting events have build-up and results in the mainstream media: in UK at least, all that was mentioned was the fact that an event took place, and that mainly because it allows a few seconds of nice pictures on the TV. Kevin McE (talk) 08:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

December 8

ITN candidates for December 8

Scaled Composites SpaceShipTwo

Oppose, since it's just a PR move. I suggest we wait until it actually starts taking passengers. Modest Genius talk 15:24, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree, let's wait for some real flying. --Tone 15:47, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
I see no problem with this. They are obviously serious about this project and it's a real milestone. This section is here to highlight our articles and this one is pretty good. Plus it would make for a nice break from the death and elections this section seems to laways focus on. It's an on going story people are intrerested in. RxS (talk) 15:56, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Since when was 'showing it off to the media' a significant milestone? Flying the thing and then the first paying passengers are milestones. PR is not. Modest Genius talk 16:23, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
This is more than a PR move, it's the beginning of an 18th month test period for the worlds first commercial manned spacecraft. That's a pretty real milestone. Not to mention the other points I made. RxS (talk) 18:24, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Wait It's expected to go for it's first maiden in future I think, so until then we should keep our hands off the keyboard.--yousaf465' 08:43, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree that this is more than a PR stunt, though it may not be axactly what the headlines bill it to be. My personal inclination would be to highlight also intermediate (as opposed to minor or major) steps of the evolution of commercial space exploration, and on that basis I am excited about this news. I'd like to further discuss featuring this headline. __meco (talk) 16:32, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, since they've unveiled the ship, it is reasonable to expect that the first test flights will follow within months. My support then. --Tone 16:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

8 December 2009 Baghdad bombings

Five bomb blasts in Baghdad, Iraq kill at least 127 people and injure hundreds more (448 at latest count). –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 18:27, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Support, but article needs to be longer first - Dumelow (talk) 19:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
  Doing... SpitfireTally-ho! 20:06, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, this is enough people. More than the entire month of November (122). --candlewicke 20:49, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Was just about to say: "how about now?". Regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 21:06, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Support well written article. Jolly Ω Janner 21:07, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Yep, nicely expanded Spitfire. Posted - Dumelow (talk) 22:03, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting. --Tone 22:10, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
(you've been faster on this one, Dumelow ;-) ) --Tone 22:11, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

December 7

ITN candidates for December 7

Soyuz TMA-17

Soyuz TMA-17 will launch December 7 from Baikonur Cosmodrome to the International Space Station ISS. [34] SriMesh | talk 04:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The article says December 20. Postponed apparently. --Tone 23:11, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Usual ITN stuff, but I think wait for it's Launch. --yousaf465' 03:52, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Reşadiye shooting

  • This is surely as relevant as this, particularly since it is "the deadliest in the region in more than a decade"? --candlewicke 21:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
The article is at Reşadiye shooting. Requires expansion. --candlewicke 21:56, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment Agree with Candlewicke this article needs to be expanded using a expanding foam ;).--yousaf465' 03:55, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Very poor coverage considering how unusual it was. Oh well. Seven soldiers are shot dead and three more are wounded in Reşadiye, Tokat Province, in the region's deadliest attack of the decade. --candlewicke 21:40, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Well? No opposes? :) --candlewicke 21:31, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Anyone? --candlewicke 21:05, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
(:(:(:(:(: It appears the pro-Kurdish party has now been outlawed... :(:(:(:(:( --candlewicke 23:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

United Nations Climate Change Conference 2009

SupportJake Wartenberg 00:19, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Let's wait until they come up with something significant. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Agree with BorgQueen. --candlewicke 21:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, oppose until there's an agreement Modest Genius talk 23:38, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
I support inclusion now, although I recognize that the consensus is now otherwise. Sometimes a worthy, interesting story is when something begins (e.g., the World Cup draw), and I tend to think we ITN regulars have been a bit too willing to wait until some other story happens. Here, for instance, there'd be nothing wrong with posting the conference's opening now and, when/if it ever occurs, posting the resolution story later. Here, too, the article is quite good now. And if we featured it immediately on ITN, readers could follow the article's progression with events. GreenGourd (talk) 00:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
There are 100+ heads of government in attendance, so I would say it is already significant whether or not they manage to agree to something.--Pharos (talk) 00:54, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Support inclusion now - this is hugely notable and certainly appropriate. Failure to agree on anything will also be significant. TerriersFan (talk) 01:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
'Support. I agree with the basic argument that 100 heads of state meeting is a significant event regardless of the conference's results. --Johnsemlak (talk) 10:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. Let's have this posted now. This is what the world is focusing on currently and probably will be for the next week and a half, and subsidiary stories are obviously going to surface concurrently. I think it is important that the article about the conference itself is prominently featured simply because so many readers will be looking for a link to it on the front page. If major stories erupt along the way, these may warrant separate ITN items. __meco (talk) 10:50, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

To the admins: There is now a significant consensus for posting this item. __meco (talk) 15:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, well... posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Put up a picture of the logo in place of the Romanian president? Colipon+(Talk) 20:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
We can't. That's an unfree image. __meco (talk) 23:32, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

December 6

ITN candidates for December 6

Death of Liam Clancy

  • Number 2. "The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, ("a central figure during the 1960s folk revival") and was recognised as such (Bob Dylan compliment, success in Canada and US, two-hour award-winning documentary + further biography during life, political tributes at death)". Was also still active at death, most recent album being 2009 and planned interview which never was. Has additional image. Discuss? --candlewicke 05:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Leaning towards oppose. --Tone 22:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose not well-known. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 04:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
That's a shame. Perhaps he is the victim of a generation gap. He has an obituary in The Daily Telegraph, was admired by Bob Dylan and was part of a group that was once bigger than The Beatles. --candlewicke 21:34, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

First for women and lesbians

So what's the news here? The gay bishop or the woman? --PlasmaTwa2 22:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Support. Plasma, it is confusing but the news is the lesbian bishop. (Katharine Jefferts Schori is already the presiding bishop.) After reading the comments here I agree with Tone. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:17, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure about this one. If we focus on orientation, there was a gay bishop elected in 2003. If we focus on the woman bishop, 114 year history of what? Anglicanism is way older than that. And the article is not updated. I am leaning towards oppose, unless there is some significant further development. --Tone 22:27, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 00:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Tone. I don't see how some random diocese electing the second openly gay bishop is newsworthy enough. Richard (talk) 00:15, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, the second gay bishop in just one religion isn't really enough. Neither, in my opinion, is being the first time that this particular diocese has had a woman bishop - Dumelow (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. Please take this off the main page. This will be the butt of jokes for Wikipedia being a Western-centric LGBT-run liberal haven. I am certain there are many, many, more important things that has happened in the world on this day. Colipon+(Talk) 00:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the item from the main page per the consensus here. It can always be readded if the consensus changes (and is brand new so has plenty of time yet) - Dumelow (talk) 00:51, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Bolivian election

The Bolivian general election, 2009 during which Bolivians will elect a new Nation Congress, President and Vice President, although there is provision for a run-off election if no candidate achieves sufficient votes. The will be the first to be held under the new constitution approved by referendum on 25 January 2009 - Dumelow (talk) 11:48, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Sure, when we have results. --Tone 22:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Still only just over 91% of votes counted but it looks like Evo Morales and Álvaro García Linera will get to be President and Vice-President without the need for a second round so this should be good to go once the remainder of the votes are in - Dumelow (talk) 12:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Romanian election

Also the runoff for the Romanian presidential election, 2009 will occur, seeing either Mircea Geoană or Traian Băsescu becoming president - Dumelow (talk) 09:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

We'll probably have to wait some time with this one because the result will be close, according to the exit pools. And we don't want to make a mistake. --Tone 22:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
We always wait for the absolutely final results anyway (remember the Afghanistan election!), but at least it's looking a bit more of an unknown compared to Equatorial Guinea... - Dumelow (talk) 23:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
The final results have given it to Traian Băsescu. It was very close with Băsescu getting 50.33% of the vote and Mircea Geoană 49.66%. The election article looks to have been updated enough - Dumelow (talk) 16:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Close indeed. Go ahead and post :-) --Tone 17:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, no time to do it tonight. Maybe someone else will post it for me. If not I will try to find time to do it in the morning - Dumelow (talk) 00:29, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Now done. I hope we get some non-politics items soon, we are a bit election heavy at the moment - Dumelow (talk) 11:16, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

December 5

ITN candidates for December 5

Víctor Jara

Leaning towards oppose. Interesting, but international notability is leaning somewhat lowly. SpencerT♦Nominate! 20:14, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Murder of Meredith Kercher

  • This seems to be a reasonably high-profile case with some degree of international implications. Prosecutors have requested a life sentence for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, and a verdict is expected on Dec 5. [35] --BorgQueen (talk) 14:49, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Knox and Sollecito are found guilty. [36] --BorgQueen (talk) 06:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the article is... somewhat messy. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
If the article is improved, I Support; the case received great coverage in Italy, the UK, and the USA over the past couple of years. HonouraryMix (talk) 10:09, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Support in principle, if the article is brought up to scratch. I suggest the blurb 'Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are found guilty of the murder of Meredith Kercher, in a widely publicised trial in Perugia' Modest Genius talk 11:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has been cleaned up a bit; posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Object I think it should be removed for lacking in significance. Apart from the media frenzy, it has little impact on anything, eg political murders (eg Pim Fortuyn), terrorist attacks, foreign policy changes, elections, natural disasters. It has no more impact than any other murder. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates) 12:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Yellowmonkey's Oppose. This seems more like tabloid fluff than substantial news (by 'substantial I'm meaning 'substantial enough for WP:ITN).--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose just another murder trial. Has no real significane other than to the families and friends directly involved. Jolly Ω Janner 14:41, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Very well. Going to remove it. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Election results finally in

The results of the Namibian general election, 2009 and Equatorial Guinean presidential election, 2009 are now in. Both winners have pictures which would solve out image shortage at the moment. The Namibian election is currently tagged with {{update}} though - Dumelow (talk) 12:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Posting Equatorial Guinean presidential election, 2009 soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I (and User:Thomas.macmillan) have updated the article. Hopefully should be OK now - Dumelow (talk) 00:48, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Believing that no-one will object and that we are well overdue for an update I have added the Namibian election results - Dumelow (talk) 12:09, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

December 4

ITN candidates for December 4

Foreign relations of Rwanda (or perhaps France)

Rwanda and France restore diplomatic relations. I think there might be some time to fit this one in. Break-ups are usually featured - how about getting back together? --candlewicke 04:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

How major was the France-Rwanda relationship before the split? SpencerT♦Nominate! 04:19, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Rwanda is a former colony of France, so a split sounds pretty big in hindsight. --PlasmaTwa2 04:35, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm inclined to oppose because they were severed for only 3 years (irrespective of Rwanda appearing on ITN twice already). Arsonal (talk) 06:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

More than 100 dead in Russia

  • If this happened in the US or Western Europe, it'd be on the in the news so fast it'd make our eyes spin. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
  • What's your point? Any article going on ITN, regardless of location, has to be of appropriate size and quality. If you think this should go on the main page then you should get to work expanding the article, rather than complaining here. Lampman (talk) 01:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when expanded. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Expanded, posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:19, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty expires

START I, a treaty between the United States and the Soviet Union on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms, expires. [40] The article needs some more citations and updates. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Support They are going to replace with something new.--yousaf465' 06:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment: if a new treaty is going to happen soon, it would be better to feature that. However, we don't know how long that will take (or even if it ever will), so I'm kinda neutral right now. Thoughts? Modest Genius talk 11:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree, better to wait. --Tone 22:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

UFO unit closed

Support when updated. Ministry of Defence (United Kingdom), perhaps? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Support I didn't even know they had a UFO unit. Querky. --PlasmaTwa2 18:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. --candlewicke 03:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Support --yousaf465' 06:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose as cruft; it's not as if anyone took the unit seriously, including those who worked in it Modest Genius talk 11:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. After all, have they found the little green men?

Philippine President declares state of Martial Law

Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo has ordered a state of martial law in Maguindanao province, which could pave the way for the swift arrests of other suspects who have been linked to the November 23 massacre which killed 57 innocent civilians. ABS-CBN News --Exec8 (talk) 15:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

One assumes civilians are innocent. --Golbez (talk) 23:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Weak Support The ML has been imposed only in a single province.--yousaf465' 06:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose for now, unless the situation escalates Modest Genius talk 11:44, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

40 killed by suicide attack on mosque

(The Times) At least 40 people have been killed and 70 wounded after a suicide gun and bomb attack on a mosque in Rawalpindi, Pakistan. The mosque is near to the national army HQ and army officers are amongst the dead. I am sure we will see an article on this soon - Dumelow (talk) 14:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Support. BBC says most of the dead are "serving or retired military officials" and the roof also seems to have collapsed. --candlewicke 15:00, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
December 2009 Rawalpindi attack created, though needs expansion. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Support. I'll see if I can add anything useful to the article. HJMitchell You rang? 16:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
This is long enough? A suicide attack kills at least 37 people and injures more than 80 others during Friday prayers at a mosque in Rawalpindi. --candlewicke 17:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted.--Chaser (talk) 18:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Nepalese cabinet meeting

Nepalese ministers have held the world's highest cabinet meeting Which article would be best to use? --candlewicke 13:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose too tabloid-esque. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 14:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Interesting, but not ITN-notable. SpencerT♦Nominate! 20:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

2010 FIFA World Cup#Draw

There are too many things that could be in a blurb so it would be too long. Besides, as with the Olympics, I think we should feature the opening ceremony and the winner (or maybe only the winner). --Tone 22:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
It's certainly a very big event but I agree, oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

December 3

ITN candidates for December 3

Ashmolean Museum

The Ashmolean Museum, the world's first university museum, officially reopens. [41] The article has yet to be updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:00, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Mogadishu explosion

(BBC) Three government ministers are amongst 18 19 people killed by an explosion at a graduation ceremony of Benadir University in Mogadishu, Somalia. No sign of an article yet - Dumelow (talk) 12:11, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Started 2009 Shamo Hotel bombing; currently expanding. –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 05:26, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
I am still expanding the article and it is in need of work (so please don't post the article just yet even if there is support for it), but at least now it covers the main details of the attack. For the news item, I can suggest:

A suicide bombing at a graduation ceremony in a hotel in Mogadishu, Somalia kills 22 people, including three cabinet ministers.


A suicide bombing at a graduation ceremony in a hotel in Mogadishu, Somalia kills 22 people, including three ministers of the Transitional Federal Government.

Xinhua reports a death toll of 57, but every other source still gives the figure of "19". –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 06:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Updated BBC News article gives a figure of 22 killed, including three ministers (and a fourth in critical condition). –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 09:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Some ministers were in victims list.--yousaf465' 06:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
I prefer the second hook, but would change it to: "including three ministers of the Transitional Federal Government." to be more specific. Let us know when you have finished expanding the article - Dumelow (talk) 09:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
That's a good idea, I think. It's more useful/informative to direct readers to the article Somali Council of Ministers instead of the general article about government ministers.
I think I'm done for now. I have covered almost everything about the actual bombing and the aftermath/reactions that has been reported by news sources as of approximately one hour ago. The "Background" section is empty and could use some information about the War in Somalia (2009–), the current situation in Mogadishu (with the government controlling only a couple of blocks of the city), and/or Al-Shabaab's recent activities. The article War in Somalia (2009–) and this BBC article could be a useful resource. Or, we could just remove the background section until someone is willing to add some content (I intend to, but I won't be able to until tomorrow). The article may also be in need of some copyediting; normally, I always copyedit what I write, but I'm too tired right now and would probably miss some errors or issues. I'll revisit the article and Google News in about 12 hours to see if there is any more updated information that can be added to the article. Cheers, –BLACK FALCON (TALK) 09:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
I have posted it. I don't think the expansion tag for the background section is too big a deal, if people complain we can always just remove the section entirely (as you suggested) as the article is more than sufficient without it. Good work on the updates, by the way - Dumelow (talk) 13:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

December 2

ITN candidates for December 2

FIFA announce inquiry following Thierry Henry handball controversy

This incident has now proven to have important ramifications for the worldwide sport of soccerball. After calling an extraordinary general meeting, FIFA have recognised that refereeing in football is out of date for the modern age, and have come up with "concrete proposals" for how to prevent incidents like this happening again, which include the setting up of an inquiry to come up with technological and human improvements to officiating at the highest level, changes to the Qualification and Play-Off stages of the FIFA World Cup, and they have also opened a relatively unheard of retrospective disciplinary investigation of Thierry Henry for his role in what FIFA President Sepp Blatter called "blatant unfair playing". MickMacNee (talk) 21:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Support if/when there is some kind of outcome. Just announcement of an inquiry is not yet ITN material. But let's keep it in mind for later. --Tone 22:35, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
When there is an actual change in the way they referee matches, then this should be considered for ITN. Not now. --PlasmaTwa2 01:03, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose if I'm correct, nothing new actually came out of the meeting. It's time to move on. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 14:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Indonesia bans the Australian film Balibo

  • Indonesia bans the Australian film Balibo, which follows the story of the Balibo Five, a group of journalists killed during the 1975 Indonesian invasion of East Timor. (AFP) (BBC) (Reuters) (The Jakarta Globe) (The Australian) Although many films get banned around the world, I think this particular piece of censorship is politically significant with certain international implications, especially considering that the Australian Federal Police has launched an investigation into the deaths of the Balibo Five just three months ago. [42] Indonesian military supported the ban ("Military spokesman Air Vice Marshall Sagom Tamboen said ...(snip)... It would harm the good relationship between Indonesia and East Timor, as well as between Indonesia and Australia, he said." [43]), while Indonesia's national journalists association "plans to defy a government ban on the movie Balibo, kicking off a countrywide roadshow tour for the film with a free public screening in Jakarta today." [44] --BorgQueen (talk) 19:54, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
    • Neutral right now. Did the film win any awards that I'm missing? Grsz11 20:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I would oppose this one after all we are Wikipedia's ITN not rotten tomatoes homepage.--yousaf465' 03:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, when the articles are updated. GreenGourd (talk) 20:33, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose Most countries do not have freedom of history, and the banning of certain films that do not fit the nationalist, xenophobic ideology are often censored, eg all the ones about Tibet getting banned in China and the actors banned from China, anything critical of VCP in Vietnam, and so forth. If the murderers get extradited or killed extrajudicially in retaliation, then it is notable. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 22:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose I'm faily certain this is common in places like China, Burma, North Korea, etc. and those films aren't listed. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 14:30, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
But is it common in the countries mentioned... that is the question. --candlewicke 03:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
If this happened under Suharto, I wouldn't put it in ITN as its ban would be expected due to the high amount of information suppression and propaganda during his presidency. However, it occurs in a period when the government is conducting a lot of reform (especially in the military), so I support. I was somewhat surprised that the ban took place. Arsonal (talk) 06:16, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Rwanda first landmine-free country

(BBC) Rwanda is to be officially declared the first landmine-free country at the Cartagena Summit on a Mine-Free World. The demining has been supervised by the Mine Awareness Trust. In order to be declared landmine-free Rwanda had to meet the conditions of the Ottawa Treaty, perhaps that is the article to update? - Dumelow (talk) 00:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Support Go for it.--yousaf465' 04:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
ITN is getting too Rwandan-centered. --PlasmaTwa2 05:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank God it's never US-centric! ;-) --Chaser (talk) 08:40, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I have done a bit of an update at Ottawa Treaty, only two different refs because it doesn't seem to have been picked up by many news sites yet - Dumelow (talk) 12:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
That should be good enough. A nice blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Something like: "Rwanda becomes the first country to be declared landmine-free under the Ottawa Treaty" or similar? - Dumelow (talk) 12:56, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Ok, posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Should we remove the Rwanda-Commonwealth post for weight? Grsz11 19:58, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Do we do that when we have, say, two Germany-related items? (Or any European country, for that matter) No, we don't. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I was asking because I did not know. No worries. Grsz11 20:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

North Korea bans cash transactions

The Times North Korea has apparently banned its citizens from using cash and will wipe out personal savings in excess of 100,000 won (£419). It is part of a revaluation programme that began on Monday and means that North Koreans will not receive new bank notes until next Monday, and hence not being able to buy any goods or services for a week. No idea which article is relevant - Dumelow (talk) 13:49, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

North Korean won? Someone has already updated it a bit. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Yep, that looks like the place. I will try to get an update done later this afternoon, in the meantime is there any support for this? - Dumelow (talk) 15:05, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:07, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
The article has been updated, I added a little bit more. Adding my support to this. Midway (talk) 17:53, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Midway, I have also added a little. Can you think of a good blurb? - Dumelow (talk) 18:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Suggest: In the process to revalue the North Korean wŏn, current banknotes cease to be legal tender, and businesses shut down until new notes are released on 7 December. Arsonal (talk) 23:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Can we sort which one is the main article before posting? History_of_the_Korean_currencies#Won_.281947-.29 and North_Korean_won#History both point back at each other with {{main}}, though in slightly different ways.--Chaser (talk) 23:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm more inclined to use the currency articles as the main ones. The same dual usage of {{main}} seems to occur for some of the other currencies as well. Arsonal (talk) 23:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
OK. That satisfies my concern.--Chaser (talk) 23:45, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:41, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

December 1

ITN candidates for December 1

Treaty of Lisbon

The Treaty of Lisbon and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union enter into force. Hektor (talk) 07:15, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:32, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Didn't we already have the ratification featured? Modest Genius talk 11:00, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, actually, on 3 November 2009. Perhaps we shouldn't feature the same article again so soon. I would like to hear what others think. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:14, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
We had it before, now it's just a formal thing. I think it is not necesary to feature it again. --Tone 11:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Support, but many other important implications to the EU, such as its new legal personality, comes with the new treaty. --Hapsala (talk) 12:59, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, as mentioned above it was on here only a few weeks ago. ~ DC (Talk|Edits) 17:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree, we had the ratification, I don't think we need to implementation as well - Dumelow (talk) 00:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Ballon D'Or

Argentinian footballer Lionel Messi wins the Ballon d'Or 2009 by a record margin. [sauce]. Articles need updating, but I think this is worth considering.  Skomorokh  11:39, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Did we have this last year? If it goes up, it should be without mentioning any records. --Tone 11:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Article needs an update and expansion. Otherwise I support. It's probably the most significant individual football award.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:49, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose, sporting event not listed on WP:ITNR (for good reason). Modest Genius talk 00:55, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I also oppose. I'd just like to note that lack of inclusion on WP:ITNR shouldn't be dispositive. (I don't think Modest Genius is suggesting otherwise.) ITNR "is not intended to preempt other ITN criteria regarding inclusion, such as inclusion of unusual and particularly important events." IMO, this just isn't an example of that. GreenGourd (talk) 20:13, 3 December 2009 (UTC)