Fentener van Vlissingen

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I like your name. Chubbennaitor 15:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

December 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit you made to Template:EU regulation has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thank you. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 21:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

What are you trying to do? I don't mean that to sound agressive, sorry! What is the problem that you have with the current template? I'm happy to try to help, but I can't yet figure out what I should be doing. Physchim62 (talk) 23:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

As for implementation dates on regulations, legally you are correct, but it is equally appropriate to put the implementation date as equal to the commencement date (and simpler in template coding for the time being!) Physchim62 (talk) 00:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Court cases

Ouch! Physchim62 (talk) 20:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, what? Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 20:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Expression of strong disagreement, while I collect my thoughts! ;) I know you're doing it in good faith, but I think we need more discussion on this one ;) Physchim62 (talk) 20:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
What do we want on these infoboxes? We obviously need a full case name, a short case name and a citation to the ECR. Are the names of the judges important? I included them on {{ECJ case infobox}} simply because I took the infobox from UK cases, but in much of European law the identity of the judge is not meant to be important… Enwiki doesn't usually have articles on ECJ judges. I also included a "keywords" parameter, to help indexing, which is missing on the current template.

Another non-minor point is whether or not we would wish the template to be extended to CFI and EFTA Court cases, and possibly even to ECHR cases (more difficult): at present, it only covers ECJ cases, but then those are the only one's we have articles about! Physchim62 (talk) 20:28, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The judges parameters are not mandatory, only the parameters for the Judge-Rapporteur and the Advocate-General are (actually most parameters can be left out without making the template look ugly, even DateSubmitted and DateDecided are not mandatory). A keywords parameter can be included easily. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 20:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Keywords parameter is there! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 20:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Next I suggest that we change the title of the template to something like {{Infobox European case}} (my preference) or {{Infobox EU case}}, so that we can include more judgments and we don't end up with the problems we had over the legislation templates… Physchim62 (talk) 21:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

That way as well, our discussions will be recorded for posterity on a template talk page! Another point for ECJ cases: we need the {{{case_type}}} parameter from {{ECJ case infobox}}. While most cases are references for preliminary rulings like Peter Paul, there are some important cases which rely on other treaty provisions (such as conflicts between States and Union institutions, I have one in mind but I haven't written the article yet). The procedural history is really only important (IMHO) for cases which are also important in national law (such as Factortame I–V. Physchim62 (talk) 21:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

All done, further discussion at Template talk:Infobox European case. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 22:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

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Flickr use of cc-by

Are you asserting that all images on Flickr are cc-by 2.0 licensed? If so, do we have something that backs that up?LeadSongDog (talk) 20:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha. Been burned too many times by supposedly-licensed images, I guess. RNW uses a variety of licenses on its different works. Some are cc-by-nc which is not wp compatible even though it is allowed on commons. Gotta be careful. Thanks.LeadSongDog (talk) 21:32, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

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I wish to draw your attention to this

I have opened a discussion here to which I wish to draw your attention. This is a friendly notice under the auspices of WP:CANVASS. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 22:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

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Matisse

your version is awful, the color is dreadful, abosolutely unacceptable, sorry...Modernist (talk) 20:12, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Please ask other visual arts editors before you make drastic changes to important images again...Modernist (talk) 20:16, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Discuss here before making changes:[1]...Modernist (talk) 20:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

{{infobox artwork}} change

Hi,

Can you give an example of an article which prompted this edit summary? I'll try to fix the new template code to accommodate it. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 18:43, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Examples: Dance (Matisse), Music (Matisse) etc. The "location" line disappears in your version. Regards, Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 18:57, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

A-ha. Sorry about that. Fixed now. Thanks! Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Great! Thanks to you. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 21:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

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Thank you. DASHBot (talk) 05:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

ITN

Well done! --Mkativerata (talk) 07:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you for your efforts to keep our articles on the successors to the Netherlands Antilles up-to-date. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:57, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

just a note

He FvV, even een kort (en vast onnodig) berichtje hier dat ik verschillende van de aanpassingen in ISO en ccTLD heb aangepast (in het algemeen wat voorzichtiger gesteld bij gebrek aan officiele wijzigingen in bijv ISO 3166-2 (maar wel ISO3166-1)). Verder geen specifieke campagne richting je edits uiteraard; ik waardeer ze over het algeen zeer (ihb in koninkrijksaangelegenheden! L.tak (talk) 17:01, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Ik heb het gezien. Prima hoor. De bewerkingen van mijn kant waren vooral knip-en-plakwerk (van .mf e.d.) en bedoelt als aanzetje, dus het is logisch dat e.e.a. niet klopt of beter opgeschreven kan worden. Mooi dat we elkaar op die manier wat bezig houden :) - jouw artikelen worden van mijn kant ook zeer gewaardeerd. Groeten, Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 17:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

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Thanks :) Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 00:44, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Nice job

Good move on making Fort Orange a redirect. Having worked on Fort Orange (New Netherland) in the past, I didn't know there were so many elsewhere. upstateNYer 23:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! It was a bit a bold move, I admit, but because there were so many, I thought this solution would be best :) Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 19:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Kyk-Over-Al

Your page move references Fort Nassau (Guyana), but there's no discussion of the issue there. Did you mean to reference some other page? Guettarda (talk) 21:19, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

No, I meant that the convention on Wikipedia is to name forts with "Fort" in the namespace, so the article about Fort Kyk-Over-Al, should be in the Fort Kyk-Over-Al namespace, like Fort Orange (Ghana), Fort Nassau (Guyana), Fort Lijdzaamheid, Fort Zeelandia (Guyana) etc. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Fort Orange

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Good job

Wotcher,

Nice work making articles such as Dutch Coromandel and Dutch Malabar. (Rameez pp (talk) 16:25, 17 May 2011 (UTC))

Thanks a lot! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Hallo Fentener, ik zou er voor willen pleiten niet in iedere zin het woord Dutch plaatsen. Dat lijkt me niet juist.Taksen (talk) 18:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Het gaat me om de wikilink, dus (bv.) Suratte in plaats van Dutch Suratte vind ik prima, al lijkt me niet dat er veel aan te merken is op Governor of Dutch Suratte, etc. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 18:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Hallo Fentener, ik zie dat Carloff gevonden hebt. In een Duitse boekje over Deense Afrika Compagnie waarin hij ook ter sprake komt, las ik een opmerkelijk zin die me goed beviel. De macht van de Europeanen beperkte zich tot de reikwijdte van de kanonnen, hetzij vanaf de muren van de forten of op het dek van de schepen. Dat geldt niet alleen voor Afrika, maar ook voor "bezittingen" in Azië. Het lijkt me passend de invloedsfeer van die verschillende landen ook te relativeren. Groeten uit Amsterdam.Taksen (talk) 08:07, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Taksen (talk) 18:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Beste Taksen, dat lijkt me inderdaad de juiste conclusie, dat--tot de negentiende eeuw in ieder geval--Europese handelsposten in Afrika en Azië slechts Europees waren voor zover ze onder het schootsveld van de kanonnen vielen (in de Amerika's lag dat anders). De VOC is in de eerste plaats rijk geworden door zich bezig te houden met de handel tussen Aziatische staten en had dus ook weinig behoefte grotere gebieden aan zich te onderwerpen (voor zover ze daar überhaupt toe in staat was geweest). Voor de WIC in Afrika geldt hetzelfde; men betaalde pacht aan de koning van Ashanti om in fort Elmina te mogen blijven. Pas in de negentiende eeuw veranderde dit, o.a. na de komst van Daendels, die er een plantagekolonie van wilde maken. Hollandse hoogmoed, zou je kunnen zeggen, en in 1872 waren we definitief vertrokken.Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 13:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

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Romania and ESA

I just wanted to ask you if you have come across any information regarding Romanian accession to ESA. I noticed on the ROSA site that they had ratified the accession treaty in December but don't know if it has been delivered to Paris yet. Any info would be very welcome. In any case, at what point do we change the maps? --U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 11:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for your efforts with articles related to the Gold Coast. Keep up the great work and good editing, we appreciate it very much! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:50, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 10:13, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you used copyrighted material to achieve this accolade. See my notification of copyright infringement below. Michel Doortmont 15:21, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

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DYK for Dutch–Ahanta War

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Guyana

Hi Fentener van Vlissingen,

Dthomsen8 and I are trying to get WikiProject Guyana going again. I noticed you made some very helpful contributions to some Guyana-related articles. Any chance you would be up for joining up to the project? Lorelei (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi

Hi. I saw a note in an edit summary of yours--thanks for the edits. Now that I read the novel I see what's happening: the Ashanti king delivers subjugated tribes, prisoners, to the Dutch who basically impress them into service in the East Indies. I will figure a way to state that correctly in the article. Thanks for the compliment, by the way; the book is worth reading. 66.168.247.159 (talk) 22:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome! You're right indeed, the Belanda Hitam recruited certainly weren't voluntary conscripts, it was more a form of indentured labour or "slavery light". Yet the Dutch were at pains to make sure it didn't look like slavery, as otherwise the British would have ended the whole endeavour. But the reality was of course quite different.

Oddly enough, the soldiers recruited in the Gold Coast had quite a luxurious life in the Dutch East Indies, because they were classified as "Europeans" since they were soldiers in the military (the Dutch divided their subjects in the East Indies into two categories: Europeans and natives). They usually married an Indo girl, their children went to European schools, and they lived in European neighbourhoods. So disregarding the circumstances under which they were recruited, they weren't treated like slaves in the East Indies. Quite the contrary. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 22:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your response: this is interesting material. The novel doesn't spend much time on "them" "over there", but Wikipedia has a link, even if sideways, in W. R. van Hoëvell. You're probably the better person to redo this in the article on the novel--I could not come up with a better term than impressment, but I have little knowledge in this area. Thanks, 66.168.247.159 (talk) 22:40, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

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Disambiguation pages

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A code of honor for creating disambiguation pages is to fix all resulting mis-directed links.

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It would be a great help if you would check the other Wikipedia articles that contain links to "Cape Colony" and fix them to take readers to the correct article. Thanks. R'n'B (call me Russ) 22:33, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

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Cape Colony disambiguation page

Hi Fentener van Vlissingen. I would like to propose that the articles on the Cape Colony (there are now several I see - all for the same political entity) be merged into one page, entitle "Cape Colony" or even "Colony of the Cape of Good Hope" if you like.

The reasons are that the Cape (like many self-governing territories) has passed through the control of several colonial powers throughout its history, with little change to its internal structure - or with changes occurring only later. To be consistent, you would then need to create new separate articles for the Cape as it went through far far greater political changes - to representative government, responsible government, annexation of Natal etc. The decolonisation and evolution of states is a complex process. You would also need to correct the great many links that I still come across, that still link to your disambiguation page. Finally, the entity is commonly referred to as "the Cape Colony" in academic and informal circles, regardless of which colonial power held sway at which particular time. The longer name "British Cape Colony" is not generally used and seems to needlessly complicate things.

Far simpler and more consistent to just revert the page to "Cape Colony", and update its info-box to account for the political changes. Abu Shawka (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Abu Shawka. Well, I guess I couldn't disagree more. By your logic, New Netherland should be merged with Province of New York, and Dutch Gold Coast, Danish Gold Coast, Portuguese Gold Coast, Swedish Gold Coast, and Brandenburger Gold Coast should be merged with Gold Coast (British colony). I don't think that will work. Of course the internal structure of the colony did not change overnight after it was taken over from the Dutch by the British, but the change in the administrating colonial power is the principal reason for many of those later changes (e.g. English replacing Dutch as the official language, early abolition of slavery). And of course the evolution of states is a complex process, but few political changes are as momentous as a transfer of sovereignty. That is why colonies have separate articles from contemporary sovereign states and also why colonies changing hands should have separate articles. As Wikipedia expands, some other political changes can split up articles as well (we now have separate articles for the Union of South Africa and for South Africa as we know it today; another example: German Empire, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, West Germany, and Germany describe various incarnations of the same sovereign state).

As for the term British Cape Colony and Dutch Cape Colony not being generally used: that is just not true. Check this and this list of literature on Google Scholar.

As for having to change the links to either Dutch Gold Coast or British Gold Coast: I have been busy doing that when I split those articles. But then User:BD2412 argued that it doesn't qualify as a disambiguation page, and the page has since been converted into a proper article spanning the entire colonial period of the Cape Colony.

Finally, I have made a call for discussion about splitting the article on the talk page of the then-named article of Cape Colony almost two years ago, and I reopened discussion several times since. I have had exactly zero response. I find it a bit strange that now I have been WP:BOLD, my action is considered controversial. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 10:17, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

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afrikaner

why is adding white irrelevant? it is redundant to first say "This article is about the African ethnic group" and then "Afrikaners are a Southern African ethnic group" meybe its better if we change the later to "ethnic group in Southern Africa"? what do you think about that? 120.50.35.122 (talk) 13:03, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Saba status referendum, 2004

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Missing Source

It would be appreciated if you could clarify where File:Derain CharingCrossBridge.png was obtained? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

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Notification of copyright infringement

Dear Sir,

This is to notify you that I have lodged a complaint of copyright infringement with Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons with regard to all the materials you have retrieved from my website Gold Coast DataBase (http://gcdb.doortmontweb.org). I refer here to the regulations for the use of this database, set out clearly on the regulations and disclaimer page (http://gcdb.doortmontweb.org/disclaimer.php):

"Registered users are licensed to use the contents of this site, but only for the purpose of personal or professional academic research. Content may only be downloaded as search results relevant to that research. Incidental use of data is allowed and governed by the written and unwritten rules of academic engagement (i.e. due and proper quotations, citations and references need to be provided at all times),

These electronic pages may not be reproduced in any format for profit or presentation by other organizations. Persons or organizations desiring to use this material for non-commercial purposes must obtain my written consent. This means you may not put my data on your web site, unless there is a written agreement between us.

Site-owners and administrators are free to provide links to this site without my prior agreement, but only to the home page gcdb.doortmontweb.org and never directly to any of the sub-pages of this site."

You are not a registered user of the site, and I believe you have used the formerly available option of guest access to approach the data and download these in an unauthorised and possibly illegal manner.

Also, you have dowloaded and republished images from the said database, which are now in Wikimedia Commons. Several of these images are private property and their usage is regulated by registration to the database and written permission by me. You do not have that permission. Others are harvested from publications that are still in copyright or were at the time of retrieval and republication.

Also, you provide links to specific data-pages in the database as references. This is equally not permitted. You can only provide a link to the homepage without permission. Besides, publishing links is only permitted to site-owners and administrators, which you are not as far as Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons are concerned.

I demand you repair all infringements by removing all text and images that directly or indirectly derive from the Gold Coast DataBase. You have until 15 September 2016 to do this.

Yours sincerely, M.R. Doortmont (Michel Doortmont 15:25, 6 September 2016 (UTC))

Notification to both of you that I've raised this here. Doortmont, this may (emphasis on may) result in you being temporarily blocked from Wikipedia; if this happens it's not intended as any kind of personal slight, but it's a part of Wikipedia's standard dispute resolution procedures that editors taking or threatening to take legal action against the Wikimedia Foundation or individual editors are blocked while the dispute is outstanding to minimise the risk of escalation and to reduce disruption to other editors and readers. ‑ Iridescent 15:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

All texts that could be construed as "legal threats" removed (Michel Doortmont 18:59, 6 September 2016 (UTC)).

Copyright problem: Willem George Frederik Derx

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Willem George Frederik Derx, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to contain material copied from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_George_Frederik_Derx, and therefore to constitute a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with our copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators are liable to be blocked from editing.

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• If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted "under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC-BY-SA), version 3.0", or that the material is released into the public domain, or if you have strong reason to believe it is, leave a note at Talk:Willem George Frederik Derx with a link to where we can find that note or your explanation of why you believe the content is free for reuse.

It may also be necessary for the text be modified to have an encyclopedic tone and to follow Wikipedia article layout. For more information on Wikipedia's policies, see Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at this temporary page. Leave a note at Talk:Willem George Frederik Derx saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved.

Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Michel Doortmont 19:54, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Usage of data & assumption of good faith

Dear Mr. User:Fentener van Vlissingen, In our dispute of your usage of data from my website http://gcdb.doortmontweb.org/index.php for several Wikipedia pages on Gold Coast history, you have claimed Good Faith on several occasions. What baffles me here is, whatever Wikipedia takes as a position on the issue, how I can maintain an Assumption of Good Faith (as required from me by Wikipedia) in view of the following considerations:

• You accessed the said database without registering or making your identity known in any other way;
• You did not engage in any conversation with me about the database or the information in it and your desire to use the materials;
• You harvested the data from the database and used these in a manner contrary to the regulations governing their use (for registered users), where it must be noted that the regulations are accessible for any visitor to the database, before accessing the data areas;
• You enter into a third-party discussion with me about you being right in using the data, rather than directly engaging with me in such discussion as would be a proper academic way of dealing with the issue.
• You have willingly taken the risk of transgressing rules set out by the European Database Directive, regardless of the consequences.

Please explain to me why there should be an assumption of good faith here by **demonstrating** good faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith) You obviously enjoyed the work done by me and others on the collection and collation of data. Otherwise you would not have used these to produce the Wikipedia articles in the way you did. It is good academic practice to inform colleagues about this, rather than keeping quiet. As a result your decision to stealthily harvest data from http://gcdb.doortmontweb.org/index.php has led to full closure of the website and your expulsion from it. So what were you thinking? Yours faithfully, Michel R. Doortmont

I disagree with you on this: it is not considered good academic practice to inform the authors of publications of a citation of their work. People cite from publications here on Wikipedia all the time, which is perfectly legitimate with proper citations. As for your database rights, your terms of use are in contravention to article 3 of Dutch database rights law:

Artikel 3.

1. De producent van een databank welke op enigerlei wijze aan het publiek ter beschikking is gesteld mag de rechtmatige gebruiker van die databank niet verhinderen in kwalitatief of kwantitatief opzicht niet-substantiële delen van de inhoud ervan op te vragen of te hergebruiken. Voorzover de rechtmatige gebruiker toestemming heeft om slechts een deel van de databank op te vragen of te hergebruiken, geldt de eerste zin slechts voor dat deel.

2. Bij overeenkomst kan niet ten nadele van de rechtmatige gebruiker van het eerste lid worden afgeweken.

Best regards, Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 12:49, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Interesting how you keep bending the issue towards your own righteousness. With regard to the Dutch database rights law, the quoted articles are less than straightforward, as you make them out to be. Your claim that the database is / was open to the public is false, I contend. Access is limited to screened and registered users, which is a group of people that, under Dutch and European law, cannot be defined as "the public". So there is a legal issue there, which would focus on (a) whether you accessed the database legally; (b) if the fact that you could access it was intended by the owner; and (c) if you accessing the database as a non-registered user means that the database "is made available in any way to the public". I would like to see jurisprudence on that. And when dealing with a non-public database, the regulations for use of the database are valid. I would guess you are not working in academia yourself. If you were, you would know that in case of data usage from ongoing projects like this, in whatever way made available, it is good practice to discuss this usage with your colleagues and the owner of the database. In its basic form that is also what the registration requirement is for. And finally, I notice that you do not react to my main question here: how do I maintain an assumption of good faith towards you? Is it a question too close for comfort? I suppose it is and notice that you are unwilling to **demonstrate good fate** in a dispute, which I read to be unbecoming for contributors to Wikipedia. Michel Doortmont 14:08, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

I maintain good faith, because I assumed (and still assume) that that my citation of your website was a case of fair use (or in Dutch law, citaatrecht). Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 15:43, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Once again, Doortmont, you fail to distinguish between reproducing the contents of a database (this is where database rights come in) and merely depending on its contents as a source for content that is created by someone else. Judging by your own description of the case, Fentener van Vlissingen has not engaged in wholesale copying of large or small parts of your database, so your allegations of infringement aren't supported by the facts. Nyttend (talk) 01:39, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Dear Nyttend, please stop slapping me with the same argument over and over again without dealing with the core argument put forward by me, namely that this is NOT a public database, but a closed private repository. The way in which the information was acquired was wrongful in the first place and should not have happened. This may be a mistake on my part (having a backdoor open for a while), but it does NOT change the legal status of that database / repository. Simply having information stored online does NOT qualify it as being in the public domain. Check the multiple discussions on Wikipedia about this I would say. As I do not seem to have the ear of the Wikipedia administrators, I have taken measures there where I do have control. The database is now fully closed to the public, registration is enhanced, and much of the information has been made unavailable for any user except the administrators, in order to avoid any further misuse or abuse of the datasets in the database. Oh and by the way, I am taking these measures in good faith. As far as I am concerned this is case closed. Michel Doortmont 13:04, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

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Anglo-Dutch Slave Trade Treaty

Thanks for your work on the Anglo-Dutch Slave Trade Treaty. I have rearranged some of the information as we already have a page on Mixed Commission Courts, which seems to be the more usual terminology. I would be interested if there are any dutch sources concerning Samuel Samo? Leutha (talk) 08:25, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

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Nomination of Pikin Santi for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Pikin Santi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Johan David Carel Pagenstecher

There a short reference to Stückemann 2014 in there, without a long reference. Would you mind adding it? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:42, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

I did, thanks! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 15:44, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

There's also Ulzen 2013 from Asafo, which you might be able to help with. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:48, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

It was removed as a self-published source a while back [2], so I put CN tags instead. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:51, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, I was just about to say the same thing. Thanks again! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 15:52, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

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Constitutional Court of Suriname

Gerard Spong has written an extensive analysis on the Constitutional Court of Suriname and it's implications to the December murders and the Amnesty Law. I am not sure how I can use the document, because quite frankly I sometimes felt completely lost, but I'm think this will interest you. It is also a treasure trove...

https://www.starnieuws.com/index.php/beyond_files/get_file/f08cb3f177068081e09bd1c8eeaf4a44.pdf

from https://www.starnieuws.com/index.php/welcome/index/nieuwsitem/59107

KittenKlub (talk) 07:02, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

@KittenKlub:, thanks for the article by Gerard Spong, I hadn't come across that one yet! It's indeed an elaborate analysis of the court and what may happen in the not too distant future. But since it's all quite speculative how things will unfold, I think it's best to wait and see how everything will play out, rather than listing all possible scenarios in the Wikipedia article. At least there is an article stub now, so it's less likely people will confuse the Constitutional Court with the High Court of Justice in the event of new developments (one of my main motivations to create the article). Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 14:22, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks

I've been trying to make sense of it, and couldn't find a clear overview for the Amerindians anywhere. If you know anything about the Aluku, because they've been without a granman for years now, and duckduck and google draw blanks. KittenKlub (talk) 11:39, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@KittenKlub:, you're welcome! The situation with the Wayana granman is indeed quite confusing. The "granman" on the Lawa River, Ipomadi Pelenapïn, is the ex-husband of Karin Boven (who for some reason has an article on the German Wikipedia!), by the way, I'm not sure you noticed that (it's hinted at in the dankwoord of her dissertation). Their daughter lives in the Netherlands.

AFAIK, the Aluku are still without a granman.Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 11:50, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know that. I quickly scanned the document for granman and didn't read it in detail. I still have one chapter left of that doctoral dissertation (Scholtens) and I want to finish that book first, because that is one hell of a resource (even though it's dated). The Aluku don't have any treaty other than acknowledgement that they are French, so it wouldn't surprise me, if the French government wants to forget about the traditional government altogether. KittenKlub (talk) 11:56, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@KittenKlub:, Ben Scholtens dissertation is indeed a great resource. Hurault is still the best resource on the Aluku, even though he's long dead now. The French have recently been taking indigenous rights quite seriously, and instituted a Grand conseil coutumier des populations amérindiennes et bushinenge in 2018, which includes six official captains and two leaders of Maroon associations. The problem in French Guiana is that the government only recognizes the Aluku as an indigenous maroon group; the Saamaka and Ndyuka in French Guiana are not recognized as indigenous, but seen as Surinamese groups, even though they now far outnumber the Aluku. Have you read Richard's Price 2018 article about this in the New West Indian Guide? The Maroon population explosion in Suriname and French Guiana will have some interesting consequences in the near future. French Guiana will soon have a Maroon majority and in Suriname the Maroons will soon be the largest ethnic group in the country. The representative for Saint-Laurent in the French National Assembly, Lénaïck Adam, is a Ndyuka, as is of course Suriname's VP. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 12:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@Fentener van Vlissingen: I haven't read his recent piece, but updated all the tribes with his 2014 figures because at least it contains a subdivision and even included a Dutch estimate. Take his numbers with a grain of salt, because his numbers tend to be too high. (INSEE and CBS do not track those figures) The weird thing is that most will leave the traditional areas. The smaller groups like Matawai will become three villages which can sustain themselves with 200-300 people each and Sranan and Dutch as main language, and that's it. Marowijne will definitely become full westernized in the coming decades (Moengo and Albina already are), so it will become quite different. I wish Brunswijk lots of success and he won fair and square, but I still have some reservations about him, and I don't mean that c* stuff, because it was a trap [3] which was later used against him. I think Diana Pokie will be much more important for a change. KittenKlub (talk) 13:03, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

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