Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 205

Possible issue with Visual Editor

I know that there are limitations with Visual Editor and templates but I've started to notice it acting weird on a few specifically. If you edit certain templates with Visual Editor, it will most of time, mess up the parameter spacing and hidden comments that may also be in the template. Below are the templates which are effected by this (there may be more but these are the one I've used the most).

Template:Infobox settlement: Removes parameter spacing; messes up hidden comments (Example).

Template:Infobox U.S. county: Same thing as above (likely the same for Template:Infobox U.S. state).

Template:Jct: How the template is viewed in VE mode means the parameter order get reversed (Example).

Template:US Census population: May mess up the parameter spacing (Example).

Other: If imputing bullet points manually, user can create multiple different bullet "charts" which don't merge into a single "chart" (Example).

To my best knowledge, these issues don't hurt the contents of the template if in "Read" mode (expect for the bullet point issue), but it does mess up the template layout which could be a problem for other users. I'm concerned that, due to the nature of the issue and amount of bytes it add/removes, Wikipedia might incorrectly ping newer users edits as vandalism and led to edit reverts or bans (which is unfair since many don't know). I've tried to minimize using VE with templates now but I've seen many others who use VE and unintentionally mess up the template(s). All in all, not an immediate concern, but it might be good to investigate the issue in the future. Thank you for your time; have a good day. DiscoA340 (talk) 23:15, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

VisualEditor is disabled in template space as mentioned at Wikipedia:VisualEditor#Limitations. All your examples were made in userspace which is more used for other things so VisualEditor shouldn't be disabled there. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:36, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter I recreated said issues there so I wouldn't bother editors but I can give examples on regular articles if that's necessary. DiscoA340 (talk) 23:44, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
Editing a template means to edit the template page. I thought your post was about that but it's apparently just about editing template calls in other pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:12, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Infobox settlement is due to this recentish edit, and only changes the whitespace. Similarly for an even earlier edit on US census (harder to see, but it does make clear that it is a block-formatted template, which is what causes the whitespace adjustment).
Infobox US county does not have any TemplateData. Do you have an actual diff?
I do not see what you mean about Jct. Additionally, it also does not have TemplateData, so it will mostly default to whatever parameters you put in. Izno (talk) 23:57, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
@Izno My apologies, Template:Infobox U.S. county is fine with spacing but doesn't create a new line for each new parameter added (Example). U.S. State seems to be fine on second thought; Jct is also fine (must've been something with my edits, oh well). DiscoA340 (talk) 00:14, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Ok, so infobox US county will do that because there is no TemplateData, which means it defaults to inline formatting. Izno (talk) 00:17, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Turned off notifications for topics archived

I turned of notifications for topics being archived by accident. How do I turn them back on? I know it's a toggle button in Preferences, but don't know where exactly. Qwerty284651 (talk) 05:38, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Note there is a search box on the preferences page. You may be able to find the appropriate setting that way. isaacl (talk) 06:00, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
It's the option "Talk page archiving" in the Notifications section of Preferences. the wub "?!" 09:20, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
@The wub, thanks. Qwerty284651 (talk) 18:41, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Undelete an image

File:Helen martins.jpg was deleted due to being unused. However, that is only because a bot mistakenly removed the only use of the image in [1] after a page name swap that didn't update the links. Is there a way to restore the image? Aaron Liu (talk) 19:56, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

You can ask the administrator that deleted the image to undelete it. Ruslik_Zero 20:20, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Or any other administrator with half a brain. WP:REFUND for future reference, if you don't feel like gambling. —Cryptic 20:25, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Can't edit Draft Talk from mobile

I asked at HelpDesk and was told "You can try the MediaWiki Support Desk or make a bug report at MediaWiki", but before venturing into that alien territory (which presumably would lead me to Phab) I thought I would ask here.

I often edit from my Android Samsung mobile phone, as well as from my PC. I find that on my phone I cannot edit various talk pages other than article talk or user talk. This has been the case for some months; I raised it as a problem, I think in a zoom chat, and was asked for screenshots. Today I have at last discovered how to get a screenshot on this phone, so can read the error messages at leisure. So ...

I want to edit Draft talk:Honest History (magazine). If I use the "reply" link, I get a red box above my input saying "invalid response from server". If I click "read as wiki page" and do an ordinary edit (not VE), I get a red box saying "Error, something unexpected happened upon loading the preview. Please close and try again."

What is happening here? Can I fix it? Or are mobile editors considered to be an underclass who don't need access to backstage areas like Draft Talk?

To be honest I don't really know whether I'm using Chrome or the app: I start off by clicking a Chrome icon saved onto my home screen which gets to my watchlist, but then keep swapping between different configurations, in and out of "read as wiki page" and "View article in browser / on desktop" in an attempt to do whatever I'm trying to do: all a bit of a nightmare. I have another icon which might be the app but gets me to similar pages. In most cases I can find a workround, but contributing to Draft Talk pages, and various other Wikipedia Talk (non-article, non-user) pages, seems to be beyond the possible. PamD 09:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

@PamD assuming you are using a browser, scroll all the way to the bottom of the page and click the "Desktop" link to get a more full set of controls. If you prefer to use mobile web exclusively just uninstall the app from your mobile device. The edit you made to this page right now appears to be NOT in the app, and NOT in the mobile ui. — xaosflux Talk 14:43, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
@Xaosflux I was editing on the desktop by the time I got here, and am now. This earlier edit was from my phone. Going in and out of the desktop version doesn't help on talk pages: clicking "desktop" at the bottom produces the same page, clicking "Read as wiki page" gets the banners displayed but makes no other difference. If I click on the "reply" option I get an input box, when I type and hit the blue "Reply" I get a red error box saying "Invalid response from server". Consistently on the Draft Talk page mentioned above, but I've encountered it elsewhere too. PamD 15:08, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
This sounds a bit like an ad blocker thatis accidentally triggering on the javascript request made on the talk page. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:02, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Coordinates on Barton Broad

I am experiencing difficulties with the coordinates for Barton Broad. If they are placed at the bottom of the article, the "Infobox park" at the top of the article shows a map with a red area indicating the outline of the Barton Broad nature reserve. If I place the coordinates in the infobox, however, the red area disappears. I have tried playing around with the parameters to coord, but with no success. I am aware that placing the coords in the infobox works for some articles (eg Hainault Depot), although that uses an "Infobox Railway Depot" rather than the park variety. Can anyone explain what is going on, please, and is there a way to fix it? For the moment, I have commented out the coords in the infobox. Bob1960evens (talk) 13:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Adding |mapframe-wikidata=yes and fixing the coordinates seems to have done the trick. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:34, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the assistance. I don't think I would have guessed the solution myself. Bob1960evens (talk) 16:53, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

FYI: Edit to MediaWiki:Userjsdangerous

Just a small note to let you know that I've made a minor edit to MediaWiki:Userjsdangerous. We've been standardizing interface message boxes across MediaWiki for better accessibility and consistency so this change makes the message box you see when you edit JavaScript/CSS consistent with other message boxes across the site.

This results in a slight color change and padding change but no change to the text. Please let me know if there's any problem relating to this change. Jon (WMF) (talk) 16:52, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

This change removed the same styling in MediaWiki:Clearyourcache which has a transclusion of the page that is conditional on page load (so it would not have been noticed). Fixed. Izno (talk) 19:30, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Template : Kotobank

Template:Kotobank is broken.....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 03:16, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

What's wrong with it? * Pppery * it has begun... 03:58, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
I clicked on a link and it failed .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 04:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
also see The New Yorker. The YouTube channel template change I made still has underlying issues....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 04:14, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@0mtwb9gd5wx: Always give an example when you report a perceived problem. The New Yorker doesn't use {{Kotobank}}. Yoko Aki#References says:
"Aki Yōko". Kotobank (in Japanese). Retrieved 29 February 2012.
I don't know Japanese but based on Google Translate it's a page about Yoko Aki so it looks right. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

ddd numbers and HTTP status codes

ddd (disambiguation) pages do not include HTTP ddd pages....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 04:20, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 04:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@0mtwb9gd5wx what technical problem are you describing? If you want the page 200 (disambiguation) for example to include a link to List_of_HTTP_status_codes#200, just edit it. — xaosflux Talk 18:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
They are included if there is an article, except the proposed HTTP 451. Would readers expect lesser known codes like 505 to be found on "505" alone? A lot of things have names with a number at the end and we don't want to flood disambiguation pages with partial matches. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Random picture from Wikimedia Commons

I would like someone to create Template:Random picture which basically retrieves a random picture from Commons (for userpages). I can't figure out how to do this myself so I'm asking for advice here.

The closest I've been able to find is User:FormalDude/Contributions/Templates/Random Cool Picture Generator which just selects from a list of pics.

Commons already has commons:Special:Random/Image, so I'm thinking it shouldn't be too hard.

Please ping me using {{ping|CityUrbanism}} in your reply.  – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 17:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@CityUrbanism, Commons already has commons:Special:Random/Image, so I'm thinking it shouldn't be too hard. ... is not how that works. You cannot do what you are asking onwiki. Izno (talk) 18:07, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@Izno    – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 18:26, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
It would require a script to automatically be loaded by all users but there is no justification for that. Somebody might write a userscript users could choose to load for themselves but I think very few users would do it. I don't see anything relevant by searching for "random" at Wikipedia:User scripts/List. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
You could use the "randomly select from a list" approach. Just create a list of randomly selected images and change that list every week/month/whenever you get bored. —Kusma (talk) 20:49, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm sure that RexxS (talk · contribs) wrote a random picture selector using Lua (so there will be a Module: somewhere). It didn't select from the whole of Commons, but from a preset list. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@Redrose64 Are you referring to Module:Carousel?  – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 22:35, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
That's the one. You can see it in action at the infobox of Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs - there are six images, set up at Module:Carousel/WPDogs, which cycle if you WP:PURGE the WikiProject page at intervals exceeding 5 seconds. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:15, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
I would add to the above that you definitely would want to use a predefined list. Commons has many, many images you probably do not want on your userpage. At best you would get poor-quality images, but you inevitably will get some seriously disturbing pictures. HouseBlastertalk 22:31, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@HouseBlaster Yes, I've realised that would be a serious issue with this proposal.  – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 22:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Reconstructing magic TOC

Would anyone be interested in reconstructing magic _ _TOC__ so that level2 headings create new columns?
The output would look like this, done manually just as an example, excuse the greek).
I would like to do it, but I don't know programming. Perhaps, not so useful for encylopaediae, but for dictionaries -with repetitive standard headings-, extremely suitable. Thank you!! from el.wiktionary Sarri.greek (talk) 04:26, 6 April 2023 (UTC)\

YES! I came here to ask for a way to get a fully expanded clickable TOC, ideally next to the "Contents [hide]" link, e.g. "Contents [hide] [expand]" in the new skin. I really miss being able to skim all the subheadings which almost always appeared just after the intro in the old skin. Sandizer (talk) 12:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
To see a fully expanded TOC by default, this code in your common.css file should work (it works for me):
/* Auto-expand sections, and hide the H2-arrows */
.client-js .vector-toc .vector-toc-level-1 .vector-toc-list-item {
  display: block;
.vector-toc-toggle {
  visibility: hidden;
.vector-toc {
  padding-left: 5px !important; 
There are more customizations available at User:Jonesey95/common.css. Caveat scriptor. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:21, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you so much, Jonesey95. Very useful. In addition, I was thinking of a module to create TOCs regardless of skins and csses. Directly. Thank you Sandizer, I like expanded ToCs too, but I also hope that editors can make different designs of ToCs for different kinds of pages with parameters. I believe that the table of contents, is the reponsibility of the editor and bodytext, not of outside areas, which, may repeat it, or not. Sarri.greek (talk) 05:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-15

MediaWiki message delivery 20:03, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't care about this enough to actually report it in the appropriate place, or even to figure out where that is, but based on the above 2nd item I went and looked at my Preferences/Notifications tab. I don't (yet) have "Edits to my user page" option (with plural "Edits"), but I do have an "Edit to my user talk page" and an "Edit to my user page". I thought they were duplicates until I caught the "talk" in the first one. My point: shouldn't these be right next to each other instead of 8 lines apart?
I don't know what's coming on Thursday, exactly, so maybe my whining is moot, but I also don't know why I already have something in my Preferences. Or is EN-WP a "test wiki? — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 01:26, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Notifications of user page edits are listed under "Recent changes" which means it already happened. I have tested the feature is working now. The new version of MediaWiki is listed under "Changes later this week".
uselang=qqx for Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo says "(echo-category-title-edit-user-page: 1)". That means MediaWiki:Echo-category-title-edit-user-page is used with $1=1. The message source says {{PLURAL:$1|Edit|Edits}} to my user page so it appears it may both say "Edit" and "Edits". With $1=1 it says "Edit". Maybe the plural form is used in other languages where singular would be considered wrong or weird, but I'm just guessing here. The source text of the above tech news says {{int:Echo-category-title-edit-user-page}} with no parameter. {{PLURAL:$1|Edit|Edits}} displays "Edits" if $1 is empty. I guess the tech news writer didn't know or care about these details. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, much, PrimeHunter, including the part where you read to me the "Recent changes" sub-head and politely explain that it means "recent changes". <Facepalm> what a doofus I am. I should either sleep more or write less. The rest was a bit over my head (even when I'm not too tired to read) but the qqx trick was fascinating; I'd never seen that before. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 05:24, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@JohnFromPinckney: English Wikipedia is not a test wiki. I know of three WMF wikis that are test wikis: and - there may be others that I am not aware of. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:49, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Special:SiteMatrix shows five wikis with "test" in the name. The three above, which has closed, and which is not part of the unified login. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:27, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, both of you. I believe I was thinking of the situation (which I am positive I have seen) where some feature is being rolled out to certain wikis first. LIke English and Albanian Wikipedias and Esperanto Wiktionary would all get Fixed-Width Pending IP Flow two weeks before all the other Wikimedia sites. Again, the tip (for me) is to read for comprehension, not scan for speed. And thanks for Special:SiteMatrix; I hadn't known about that. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 14:39, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Home for Podcast RSS Feed of Spoken Articles

I recently wrote a python script that parses Wikipedia:Spoken articles into a podcast RSS feed, currently published at (paste that into your podcast app and check it out! ) with MIT-licensed source code at (Open an issue if it doesn't work with your app). I created it to use personally, but it also just to fill an apparent hole. Wikipedia has 1600+ recordings of articles in English, and podcast RSS is the main way people look for audio in the world these days, for good reasons (used by apps designed for the purpose, download management, keeping track of what one listened to, etc.).

My question is: does it make sense for that RSS file to be hosted on Wikipedia somewhere? I don't mind hosting the RSS file, but neither do I really want to. There is an apparent logic that Wikipedia would host an index of its own content; there are various other RSS feeds that Wikipedia publishes. It also would be nice if the RSS feed could not be buried in "external links" at the bottom of whatever pages where it is referred to.

If so, how would I go about this? Is this a sensible thing to make a bot out of? So something that runs on my server but writes a file to wikipedia or commons? (Are there examples of bots that write RSS to Wikipedia? Or even of RSS being hosted/updated like that on Wikipedia? Might be MIME-type issues). Or is there some method by which I could propose that Wikipedia itself "adopt" the code and just run it internally? It's a single python file with 200 lines of code, so not a huge thing to review. The main dependency is on the structure of the Spoken Articles page itself, but that seems fairly stable. morrisjm (talk) 01:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

@Morrisjm: very cool! Have you checked out Toolforge before? You can host it there, for free.
Wikipedia has limited feed generation support, we have FeaturedFeeds, but that's designed for date-based content, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't support the podcast stuff. I suppose you could publish the feed to a wiki page and tell people to access it with ?action=raw, but that feels a bit sketchy. I think Toolforge would probably be a better fit. Legoktm (talk) 06:33, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
I was previously unaware of Toolforge, and it does look like the thing. Thanks! morrisjm (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-14

MediaWiki message delivery 23:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Quiddity (WMF) or other WMF staff: are there release notes coming for the new version of MediaWiki? They are a bit overdue. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:56, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
@Jonesey95: Hmm, it should be automated. I'll check/ask what's broken. Thanks. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:21, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
This branch cut initially failed because of some of the deploy services on toolforge being down. I'm assuming that has something to do with it. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:17, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
I had seen that, but then the deployment proceeded, and according to it is complete, but still no release notes. Strange. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:01, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
The automated job which normally does this failed — I've manually created it via the make-deploy-notes script. Logged T334211 for reference. — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 13:43, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
FWIW, I've pushed out __ARCHIVEDTALK__ to some of the major talk archive temples, will take a while for transcluded pages to get updated. — xaosflux Talk 13:58, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
And I've now done mw-archivedtalk for most of them. {{collapse top}} and {{collapse}} are currently used in mainspace and shouldn't be, so while it wouldn't hurt to add it to those, those do also need to be fixed.... Izno (talk) 21:19, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Ah this explains why my recent changes page no longer has colored highlighting and doesn't have the thing I can press to refresh the page anymore. Dang... Gatemansgc (TɅ̊LK) 00:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
@Gatemansgc Do you mean the New filters for edit review? That should still work properly, and works for me in testing it just now. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 00:17, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
My browsers are old! I didn't think Wikipedia would no longer work for me! Eventually I'll be moving to a new computer but for now I don't get the highlighting or javascript based refresh. Gatemansgc (TɅ̊LK) 00:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
You should be able to run a recent version of Firefox. The latest version (111) is listed as compatible with Windows 7, which was released in 2009, and on Mac OS Sierra (10.12), which can run on any Mac made in 2010 or later. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:56, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


Starting today my watch list is acting screwy. Normally it has dots next to edits I haven't looked at.....but that is (now) there regardless if I have looked at the edit or doesn't differentiate between edits you have/haven't looked at. And also normally a option is there saying something like "Mark all changes as seen". But that isn't there anymore. Anyone know what is going on? Thanks.Rja13ww33 (talk) 01:20, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

@Rja13ww33: you wouldn't happen to be using an old (e.g. Internet Explorer) web browser would you..? — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 01:25, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Yes, a older version of Google chrome. (Not to mention the fact I am still on Windows 7.)Rja13ww33 (talk) 01:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
You might be affected by this recent change — support for ES5 has recently been dropped. You may need to update to a supported browserTheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 01:35, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. I figured it was something like that.Rja13ww33 (talk) 01:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Modern Firefox (current version 111) still supports Windows 7, though it needs Microsoft security update KB4474419. Chrome 109, released a few months ago, also supports it, but is the last version to do so. I'd recommend upgrading; I can't see a reason to use an old version of Chrome of all browsers. (Firefox has some cliffs here and there that would make natural cutoffs like Firefox 56.) Izno (talk) 01:47, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, I should probably upgrade. I still use a older version of windows based on a (work) program I use....but that shouldn't stop me from getting a newer browser.Rja13ww33 (talk) 02:02, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


Is there any way to allow JavaScript to work on iOS 10.3.3? Ever since the phab:T178356 update, I've no longer been able to run JavaScript on that software, which is the latest version that my iPad 4 supports. I would imagine a userscript to circumvent this would be impossible, though could adjusting my personal CSS make a difference? Thanks all, ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:55, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

No, this is not possible. The iPad 4 is 11 years old and unfortunately Apple's model doesn't allow you to switch to alternative browsers either... On the bright side, overall browsing Wikipedia this way should be faster, without the JS overhead. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:18, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@TheDJ: is there absolutely nothing I can do though? Could jailbreaking help? I'm also confused as to why ES6 doesn't work on my iPad since according to it's supposed to be supported on iOS 10. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 12:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Not as far as I know. I'm not aware of any jailbeak that also installs 3rd party browsers or that allows you to install a newer version of iOS. .. "according to it's supposed to be supported on iOS 10". The lexical part of ES6 is supported on Safari 10, but some small critical ES6 parts are apparently missing/incomplete (specifically on the Promise front) (edit: I'm mistaken, we actually require some ES2018 it seems). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
@TheDJ: that's a shame. Is it known why this change hasn't been made backwards compatible? ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 09:07, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

How to get edit toolbars back?

I did some edits to my preferences and since then the top and bottom toolbars for edit no longer appear.

  • Javascript is enabled.
  • Enable the editor help panel is checked.
  • Enable editing tools in source mode is enabled.
  • Editing mode is show me both.
  • Enable the editing toolbar is checked.
  • Citation expander is checked.
  • Shortdesc helper is checked.
  • Charinsert is checked.
  • Add extra buttons to the legacy (2006) editing toolbar is checked.
  • refToolbar is checked.

As a side note, is there a way to export wiki preferences to a file to use as supporting documentation in problem reports? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 13:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

What operating system and browser version are you using? Izno (talk) 16:13, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
ArcaOS, Firefox ESR 45.9.0. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:04, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
@Chatul, the reason you no longer have the toolbar is because your browser does not support sufficient functionality in ES6. See #Tech News: 2023-14. Upgrading your browser or your OS and browser are your only recourses. Izno (talk) 17:35, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
To export your preferences you can copy or save the content at the following link: Random person no 362478479 (talk) 13:08, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks - I added it to my bookmarks. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:04, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
the legacy (2006) toolbar
@Chatul: Which toolbars are you talking about? If it's the legacy toolbar (as shown in the image to the right), then you will need to *disable* the "Enable the editing toolbar" option in the "Editing" tab, and make sure the "Enable the legacy (2006) editing toolbar" option in the Gadgets tab is enabled. As its description mentions, the former will override the latter. Writ Keeper  13:19, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Do I have to log off and log back on for that to take effect? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chatul (talkcontribs) 17:04, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

This morning I am suddenly finding myself unable to click on any links in articles or in article toolbars when viewing articles using the Vector2022 style. I had to change my preference back to monobook to get anything to work again. It is not a browser issue; I tried restarting my browser, without any change, and pages outside Wikipedia work fine, as does Wikipedia under monobook. Anyone know what is going on and how to fix it? —David Eppstein (talk) 18:40, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Try safemode first to see if it is a gadget or user script. (WP:ITSTHURSDAY, so you may not be crazy.) Izno (talk) 18:47, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Also try to log out. What browser and what version of your browser are you using? Please give an example link which doesn't work. Are Example and The Example broken? Does Vector legacy work? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:28, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Alice Cooper, among others, exhibits this bug on Chrome Version 111.0.5563.148 on Windows 10. Vector legacy and MonoBook work. This is not consistent across articles, and on SOME articles (Republic of Ireland) refreshing or hard refreshing solves the problem at least until the next time the page is navigated to. It appears to happen sporadically - opening a new window (still signed in) might make links clickable, and might not. The top bar is functional at all times, though. PriusGod (talk) 21:24, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Something similar has been happening to me off and on all day. I'll load a page, and for about a minute, won't be able to click anything below the title/languages bar at the top. Refreshing doesn't fix it at first; eventually a refresh does make the problem go away, and switching to Vector Legacy also makes the problem go away. It happened on this very page just now (also over at Giétro Glacier, which I was reading when I noticed the problem again and decided to report here). It's happened in both Firefox and Edge. (talk) 21:22, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Fritos article covered by a giant checkbox
I'm seeing this problem with the Fritos article in Chrome, also in incognito mode. From inspecting the page it seems that the article text is covered by a giant checkbox? See screenshot at right. —Bkell (talk) 21:23, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
@Jon (WMF) Izno (talk) 21:44, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
This is being tracked at phab:T334699 but we are having trouble getting replication steps. If someone is still seeing this please could you share the raw HTML (obtained via view sourcd) on the ticket to help us replicate this. Thanks in advance! Jdlrobson (talk) 22:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

CS1 maint: url-status

Greetings, keepers of the eternal flame! I have sort of asked this question before, but can't remember if it was here or elsewhere. I have one of those very useful JS scripts installed (specifically for {{sfn}} errors) which also alerts me to CSI maint messages, which I often attempt to fix when I randomly come across them. But what is the point of the url-status messages, especially when they result in |url-status=live? Apparently a bot inserts them, but why? If a link is dead, that would make sense, but since a huge number of links are live, why go around letting everyone know all is fine? And why only some links on a given page rather than all of them? If the link is dead, I'm more than happy to see if it's on Wayback and amend as appropriate. And then what to do with the param? Or is it just statistics for the sake of statistics? :) MinorProphet (talk) 19:02, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Without |url-status=live the title of the webpage links to the archive version. Nardog (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
The maintenance message you speak of pertains to CS1/2 citations which have a status of live but which do not have an archive URL. Izno (talk) 19:10, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your replies. I came across this most recently in Telluric iron:
<ref name=MinDat-2063> {{cite web |title=Hatrurim formation, Middle East |website=MinDat |place=Keswick, VA |publisher=Hudson Institute of Mineralogy |url= |url-status=live |access-date=2021-12-31 }} </ref>
I don't think of myself as any sort of gnome, but should I run IABot in these cases? MinorProphet (talk) 11:11, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm fairly gnomish, and I don't much enjoy the needless addition of archive links to perfectly good references. This one is live, and the IA Wayback Machine tells us that the source was "Saved 74 times between November 13, 2003 and April 8, 2023." So no need to add more wikitext to the page.
What I might do, if I were making other changes on that page, is eliminate the unnecessary spaces in the ref citation. I see while in edit mode that the cite template is in expanded, one-line-per-parameter format, including a separate, ridiculous line for " }}" (space included), but as a minimum I would sneak the closing "}}" to come immediately after the access-date, and maybe even move the </ref> to come right after the ""}}"". Also I would determine a date format for that page and apply it everywhere (using a script). Also, I would delete the |place= parameter as meaningless for a website. And I would delete the |url-status= param completely, eliminating the error. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 14:46, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
You have two options: One is to fill in the archive URL (and date), either manually or with IABot, and the other is to remove the parameter and value (assuming the webpage at the URL is alive). Izno (talk) 18:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Is there an easy way to suppress the display of CS1 maint:url-status messages (which for me are just a distraction) while keeping the rest of the citation related messages? —Kusma (talk) 12:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
No. This could potentially be added, and it has been brought up at least once on WT:CS1. Further discussion should occur there. Izno (talk) 18:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks all for your helpful suggestions. Cheers, MinorProphet (talk) 22:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

How to wrap signature markup as sample mediawiki text

I expected {{code}} to wrap its parameter in <nowiki>...</nowiki>, and attempted to do {{code|-- ~~~~}} to display -- ~~~~ as example (grey background) text; the signature markup was expanded; I had to wrap the markup in an explicit <nowiki>...</nowiki> to suppress rendering as a signature. Is there a cleaner way to do this? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 12:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

There's {{Tildes}}. Nardog (talk) 12:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
{{code|-- ~~<nowiki/>~~}}-- ~~~~ is how I usually do it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:20, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Apparent vandalism with disgusting images on mobile app

A user on Reddit has reported that "disgusting, completely irrelevant" images are appearing on some pages on the mobile app. Nothing coming up for me on the mobile app, and nothing in the recent history as far as I can see. Reddit post is at I've no idea how to resolve this. --A bit iffy (talk) 16:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Just discovered it's been previously dealt with (vandalism of templates, should have thought of that):
-- (talk) 16:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 204#Incorrect preview images. Izno (talk) 16:51, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
It's impressive how long something is caching the rendering of these pages for the Android app (and maybe iOS app as well). There were two other pages that were actively serving vandalized short description as of April 8 until I published new versions of the pages: Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1185#Issue with short descriptions. So it's possible they were still serving the old content and someone purged/did a null edit that finally forced cache invalidation (this is just a guess). Skynxnex (talk) 17:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

A-class article assessment

How to start article assessment for A-class? Eurohunter (talk) 14:00, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

A-class isn't really used anymore. If you have a good article that you think can pass an even stricter evaluation, the next step is featured article candidacy. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
@Thebiguglyalien: If A-cass is not used anymore, what about remove it and keep in archive? Eurohunter (talk) 20:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
I think the only project that really uses A-class still is WP:MILHIST. Galobtter (talk) 20:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
@Eurohunter: See WP:ACLASS, but check that the WikiProject concerned not only recognises A-Class but has a formal assessment procedure. If you look at Category:A-Class articles, you will see that of the hundreds of WikiProjects where A-Class is valid, most of the subcategories are empty - very few actually have any A-Class article. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

New wikimarkup highlighting in syntaxghighlight

Per mw:Technical Community Newsletter/2023/April:

— Qwerfjkltalk 11:29, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Undo tool not working on mobile

I've had cause twice today to use the Undo tool to revert a non-constructive edit, and in each case when attempting to publish, I'm served a page reading The editor will now load. If you still see this message after a few seconds, please reload the page. Reloading gives me a "URI too long" error. Entering desktop mode allowed me to publish the revert. I saw another mobile editor at the Teahouse experience this issue (courtesy ping @Wikiexplorationandhelping:), and since I've just duplicated the behaviour moments ago and don't know how to file a bug report in phab I thought I'd come here. I'm on Firefox 111.1.1 on Android 11. I don't know what skin my mobile view uses or if that could even be relevant. Folly Mox (talk) 09:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello there, Folly Mox. I appreciate the ping :D. Yeah, I have the same problem as well. The undo button has not been working properly; as such, I will troubleshoot this on the desktop version. If you want to, you can also go to the desktop version of Wikipedia on a shortcut I have put in my talk page. Conversely, there's also a link there to go back to mobile version for convenience. I personally like to use mobile version more though. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 16:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Update: The undo tool does work in desktop version. Regardless of that, this issue should still be fixed. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 16:29, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Do you have a link to the page where this occurred? Nardog (talk) 17:02, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
The pages in my case were King Wu of Zhou and Talk:Laozi. The edit I reverted on the second page has since been suppressed. Folly Mox (talk) 18:41, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Ah, I missed that you had to click "Publish changes" (or "Show preview" or "Show changes" for that matter) to reproduce it. Phab task filed. Nardog (talk) 19:20, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Deceptive diff

Considering this diff, why does it reflect the removal as if I'd removed the preceding span's closing tag and then the removed span less its closing tag when in fact I had removed the entire relevant span beginning with its opening tag and culminating with its closing tag? --John Cline (talk) 23:34, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Diffing is hard. That's the only real answer.
(I use WikEdDiff available in your gadgets for a smoother experience.) Izno (talk) 23:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
It doesn't track what you actually do in the text area before saving. It just compares the before and after and shows one of multiple ways to get there. I don't think MediaWiki's diff engine is particularly good at giving a plausible way but I have never seen it give a wrong diff, meaning a way that wouldn't actually get you from the before to after. I recommend enabling wikEdDiff but I don't display it by default. If the MediaWiki diff looks poor then I examine the wikEd diff and often prefer that. But it also has weaknesses and is sometimes worse. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:00, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
I agree that the diff isn't, in and of itself, wrong; I suppose it's literally impossible, in computational terms, for the machine to err. In practical terms, however, it is deceptive and could leave one with the wrong impression regarding another one's technical competence. As it is, I was compelled to hurriedly verify that I hadn't made such a mistake which would have resulted in a cut and paste move that published inoperable HTML. And if such a diff can engender doubt within myself, it's certainly fair that it could engender doubt within others. Perhaps, in the end, skepticism is more empowering than misplaced confidence; to that end, I may be indebted to software that might have caused many to look deeper at me, longer than they otherwise would, to ultimately develope confidence with less concern that it could be misplaced. One thing that is sure, it all works well in the end. I was, nevertheless, curious and thank you for your reply. --John Cline (talk) 01:05, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
"Show changes" produces the same diff as after saving. I sometimes tweak an edit before saving to give it a better looking diff. A good edit summary also helps. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:58, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Good advice, I appreciate that. I definitely endeavor to leave a good edit summary; especially after they increased the allowable size for it. I almost always preview changes I've made before publishing but never really made use of the feature to show changes; I intend to begin using it as you described and anticipate that it will be helpful to me. Thanks again for your replies and be well. --John Cline (talk) 20:16, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Click the green triangle here to see the wikEd diff without having to enable anything. The link also works for IP's. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:12, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Strange appearance in watchlist

Hello! About an hour ago, the cosmetic design of my recent changes and watchlist changed to something that looks a bit odd. If an editor more technically minded than me could explain what's going on I would be appreciative. Images are, note the bullet points missing and odd looking log entries. It is like this for all platforms and browsers. I have checked, and it is fine on Commons. It seems to only be EnWiki.

As the quality of the images on the filebin are very low, here's an explanation of what to look for. Hist and Diff links are moved to after page title. Bullet points are gone, apparently replaced with the UCT time of edit, and entries are indented weirdly. Public logs are looking very odd: they only state the editor doing the action. Schminnte (talk contribs) 20:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Schminnte, apologies if I misunderstood what is unexpected for you but I believe you may have enabled grouping. You can turn it on or off by clicking the gear button near the top-right of the watchlist or going to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rc and looking for "Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist". I find it somewhat useful since it can show more articles on a screen at a time, even if there were many edits to some. Skynxnex (talk) 01:15, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
I also had my watchlist change and found that the group changes by page setting had been enabled. I did not enable it through either of those methods though. Do you happen to know if there is a keyboard shortcut that might be applicable? isaacl (talk) 04:48, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
@Skynxnex, you're right! That fixed it. I'm not sure how that happened, so thank you for recognising that. Schminnte (talk contribs) 08:11, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Glad I could help! Skynxnex (talk) 14:53, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Sorry @Isaacl, I don't know if there's a keyboard shortcut. I looked briefly and couldn't find anything. Skynxnex (talk) 14:52, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Why did my watchlist change format?

Example of what my watchlist used to look like.
Example of what my watchlist looks like now.

I signed up to the mentor list today and my watchlist seems to have subsequently changed format. In the past the (diff | hist) options appeared to the left, but now they're appearing in the center. Can anything be done to bring the old format back? — Nythar (💬-🍀) 00:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

See the Strange appearance in watchlist section above, it's the grouping watchlist option. So apparently it was turned on for some set of users recently? Huh. Skynxnex (talk) 01:13, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
I had the same experience as User:Nythar – the grouping option seems to have been turned on when I joined the mentor list. @Skynxnex: Thanks for linking the section above and for explaining how to switch formats. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 01:16, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
That solved it. Thank you Skynxnex. — Nythar (💬-🍀) 01:20, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Archiving sources

Is there a way to get a list of all pages at "" that are currently being used as sources on Wikipedia? I have been advised that they plan on getting rid of that domain entirely and putting all of their new content on a new site, and that they have a track record of just deleting webpages instead of porting them over to whatever the new platform is, so I was hoping to make sure articles using those sources have archive links. BOZ (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey, [18]. Indagate (talk) 16:21, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Sweet, and thank you. :) I like the simple solutions. BOZ (talk) 15:00, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Also need [19] .. http and https are separate searches. -- GreenC 15:02, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you, good catch! BOZ (talk) 15:35, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Just use Special:Search: [20] Izno (talk) 22:40, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
WP:URLREQ Izno (talk) 18:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
OK cool, I will look into that! Thanks. BOZ (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


So if you look at image 1 here, [21] you'll see the text for the article Flea. However, when I went to Wikipedia:Songs about Wikipedia, the preview for it said what is shown on image 2. I don't know if this is a custom thing, because I thought it was a vandalism, but it's not. I'm using Google Chrome Version 106.0.5249.112 (Official Build) (64-bit). AugustusAudax (talk) 21:21, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@AugustusAudax: It was removed in [22]. The preview feature is mw:Page Previews. It uses caching and hasn't detected the removal yet. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:41, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
It's a caching - one that is known about, I think but I can't find the phab ticket - Flea was vandalised and the page preview is still picking up the text of the lead paragraph of the vandalised version. Nthep (talk) 21:42, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
When I've encountered this problem in the past, I've found that purging or null edits solve the problem. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 23:05, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Images not displaying in the Android app

Is anyone looking into this? Except for the first imsge in an article, captions only are displayed. Images do work in a mobile browser which iscreally annoying because like I don't already habe enough browser tabs open. 2601:1C0:CC00:45D0:A8FB:FF04:A450:D26D (talk) 07:52, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I have the same problem but on iOS. I’m currently on the app right now, and I can only see the top image, but the rest are only captions. Hummerrocket (talk) 03:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
I've seen more reports and i also noticed it myself in an article now. Filed a ticket. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:01, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
I can confirm this for different Android Versions, Custom Roms and last App Versions installed from Play Store and F-Droid. I excluded Problems with AdBlocker DNS Filters etc. 2A01:C22:90B7:2500:78C7:C126:ACED:7045 (talk) 11:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
We reverted a patch that landed last week that combined with caching caused the issue. I added some details for the root cause at the ticket. For new requests things should be working fine. In case JS assets are cached on the client side images are going to be eventually fixed when client side cache expires. JGiannelos (WMF) (talk) 16:07, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

There is no older views statistics than 2015? Eurohunter (talk) 11:22, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

The FAQ points to, which is down, which points to WikiShark, which appears to be working and provide stats back to 2008. Nardog (talk) 15:04, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
@Nardog: Do you know why there are differences for year 2020 for Basshunter article between and WikiShark? Eurohunter (talk) 21:12, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
@Eurohunter Since July 2015, I assume it's exactly the same data. Before then, it used a very different metric called pagecounts. It should not be used in side-by-side comparisons with pageviews as they are fundamentally different metrics. MusikAnimal talk 16:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Maybe they're using different criteria or timezone? WikiShark appears to be roughly equivalent to when you set the platform to "Desktop" and the agent to "User". Nardog (talk) 18:51, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Adding a new barnstar to the default wikilove options

Hi! I'd like to add a barnstar to the default list wikilove uses (in my personal installation of wikilove through User:Ocaasi/WikiLoveinstallscript), how may I do so? Note, I'm not seeking to change the defaults for every user just for myself. — Ixtal ( T / C ) Non nobis solum. 15:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't appear that script is currently working. The documentation for adding custom WikiLove messages is at mw:Extension:WikiLove#Custom configuration. Nardog (talk) 23:39, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Military ribbon categories

Due to the recent creation of new {{MilAward Desc}} and {{MilAward Ribbon}} templates to format military decorations in articles, there's a cluster of redlinked "Recipients of [military award]" categories that keeps turning up at Special:WantedCategories because the creator of the templates used complex module coding (see Module:MilAward) that's automatically generating them. They're typically populated by just one person, and thus can't necessarily be justified for creation yet — and while I have been able to make them go away by manually wrapping the implicated template in {{suppress categories}}, it isn't a viable long-term solution if this continues.

The most recent suspects were Category:Recipients of Order of Mendi, Category:Recipients of the Order of Merit (Chile) and Category:Recipients of the Order of Precious Tripod; at the same time, the templates' use on a personal sandbox page in the creator's own userspace also generated the nonsense Category:MilAward DescList, Category:MilAward PostNom and Category:MilAward Stack.

As of now, they've all been cleaned out with the suppress categories wrapper, but the problem is likely to recur in the future. So I wanted to ask if somebody with more experience in JavaScript coding than I've got can (a) ensure that the module only generates categories that exist, while not generating redlinks, and (b) ensure that the module suppresses all categories if the template is used on draft or userspace pages?

Gracias. Bearcat (talk) 14:52, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Have you asked the author about fixing these issues? I didn't find any discussion on Editor BoonDock's talk page nor at Template talk:MilAward Desc, Template talk:MilAward Ribbon, or Module talk:MilAward. Don't you think that the fist place to discuss this issue is with the template/module author?
Trappist the monk (talk) 15:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
No. Noone has spoke to me about this. BoonDock (talk) 15:47, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Ok, so this is my suggested solution.
1. Only generate categories in mainspace
2. Check that the categories exist before adding them. Like this:
local categoryTitle ='Category:' .. mw.text.trim('Recipients of Order of Mendi'))
if categoryTitle.exists and not categoryTitle.isRedirect then
    -- category exists and is not a redirect
    -- category does not exist or is a redirect
BoonDock (talk) 15:55, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
This is what I have added to the module.
local namespace = mw.title.getCurrentTitle().nsText
if string.len(namespace) < 2 then
    local recipcat = data[code].RecipCat or "" -- If there is a recipient category specified, then add it to the output
    output = output .. " [[Category:MilAward Ribbon Description]]" -- Add tracking Category
    if string.len(recipcat) > 0 then
        local categoryTitle ='Category:' .. mw.text.trim(recipcat))
            if categoryTitle.exists and not categoryTitle.isRedirect then
                -- category exists and is not a redirect
                output = output .. " [[Category:" .. recipcat .. "]]"
                -- category does not exist or is a redirect
Please see if that fixes the problem for you. BoonDock (talk) 16:12, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
As I indicated at Template talk:MilAward Desc, I believe that this template was, and still is, failing to comply with WP:TEMPLATECAT. Further discussion should probably happen there (and this thread should have started there). – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:09, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
I thought that's what we were dealing with which I have now fixed. BoonDock (talk) 18:12, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
@BoonDock administration categories are categories used for the behind the scenes running of the project, things like Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as empty articles, Category:Pages translated from German Wikipedia or Category:Articles with VIAF identifiers. What you are adding are content categories, for which the appropriate part of the guidance is the bit that stats However, it is recommended that articles not be placed in ordinary content categories using templates in this way... (talk) 20:12, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Ok. It's clear now. It's a recommendation which is why I didn't focus on it too much. How much weight should I give the recommendation? BoonDock (talk) 20:14, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
As you say it's a recommendation rather than a bright line rule, some people do have very strong feelings about automatic categorisation, but there isn't an overall community consensus to ban it. If you're going to add automatic categorisation the most important thing is to make sure that it isn't disruptive, there are a lot of editors who work on categorisation, and having special:WantedCategories flooded with nonsensical categories or a bunch of non-articles showing up in content categories due to a malfunctioning module will upset people (as you've just seen). A few ideas you might want to consider include making sure only pages in the right namespace are categorised, making sure the template doesn't add non-existent categories and having some built in way in the template to disable automatic generation of categories for cases where someone wants to categorise an article manually. Bear in mind that regardless of how well written your template documentation is at some point someone is going to put something wrong into the parameters, your template needs to be able to cope with that. It might also be worth considering using a hidden maintenance category to track pages where the module couldn't add content categories automatically - in those cases it might be that either a new category is required or one of the input parameters is wrong.
Other editors may want to weigh in here? (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Ok, that's fair. I have been addressing the issues as they've surfaced, but let me just enumerate them here.
  1. Checks for namespace and any namespace other than main, nothing is added
  2. Checks for non-existent category. Does not add
  3. Checks for redirect category. Does not add
  4. There is only one "recipient" category possible per entry in the data table. This can only be added by adding to the correct field in the data table. There is NO way to do this from the template, whether on purpose or by accident by misconfiguring. If a category is added to the data table, it goes through the checks above, so that should prevent 99.999% of those cases you refer to. If it's a "malicious" edit to the data table, that's the same as a vandalism/disruptive edit and will get reverted asap just like any article edit.
  5. A flag on the template to prevent addition of the category is definitely a good idea. I'll write that in and report back when done.
  6. Two things about the maintenance cat.
    1. I've been beaten up enough about adding maint cats to want to avoid doing it at all.
    2. I cannot see the utility anyway because the module is written as I've outlined above to make checks any way. It's difficult (impossible) to prove a negative. It would be simple to create a maint category for all pages where a recipient category HAS been created, and I'll happily do that if there is consensus that that's required.
I think that covers everything.
One further thought. This isn't about an arbitrary adding of categories. The thought is that if you add in the article a display of an award then you are saying that person is a recipient of the award and thus the category. What I have not catered for is the case where the template is used on a page about the award, which would add that page to the recipient's list. That is specifically where the toggle option in point 5. above would be perfect.
I'll be interested to read other opinions/suggestions on the issue. BoonDock (talk) 20:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
There is now a parameter option "nocat". Calling the template {{MilAward Desc|PP|nocat=AnyGarbageYouLike}} will stop it adding the categories.
    if string.len(nocat) > 1 then -- If ANYTHING has been specified as a value for nocat, then it's true
        -- Do nothing or add to tracking category?
        -- Need to exclude adding the recipient category if it is not in mainspace.
        -- for now, that means checking it's not in "Template:" or "User:" space
        local namespace = mw.title.getCurrentTitle().nsText
        if string.len(namespace) < 2 then
            local recipcat = data[code].RecipCat or "" -- If there is a recipient category specified, then add it to the output
            --output = output .. " [[Category:MilAward Ribbon Description]]" -- Add tracking Category -- Note commented out
            if string.len(recipcat) > 0 then
                local categoryTitle ='Category:' .. mw.text.trim(recipcat))
                if categoryTitle.exists and not categoryTitle.isRedirect then
                    -- category exists and is not a redirect
                    output = output .. " [[Category:" .. recipcat .. "]]"
                    -- category does not exist or is a redirect
                    -- Add to a tracking Category ???
BoonDock (talk) 00:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
One further (belated) observation is that I might have predisposed people against what I'm doing during the development of the templates/modules. In my defence, I learnt to program in Lua three days ago ;-) Mea Culpa, mea maxima culpa. BoonDock (talk) 20:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-16

MediaWiki message delivery 01:52, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

(Echo) notification for email containing excerpt

I received a (formerly known as Echo) notification of an email. From what I recall in the past, the notification shown when you click on the alert icon used to just say that you got an email from another user, as seen in the image at Help:Notifications § Email received. However this time there was a brief excerpt of the start of the message. I didn't think any of the message was stored. Has the message or an brief excerpt always been stored? isaacl (talk) 01:40, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

It hasn't been stored always, but it has been apparently since February 2016: T121831#2023926. The screenshot on the help page you linked is, funnily enough, from January 2016! Matma Rex talk 01:49, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the info! I see from the Phabricator ticket that the subject line is stored, unless it's the default, in which case the first line of the email is stored. That's good to know for privacy purposes... isaacl (talk) 02:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Ghost CSD tags

For a few days now the listing at CAT:CSD and inside {{CSD-categories}} has been counting one page in the WP:G5 category and three in the WP:G11 category, but the corresponding categories (Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as having been created by blocked or banned users and Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as spam) have no members. I have purged the main category and the subcategories as well as the template, but the issue remains. Is there like a back-end way to reset these? Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:20, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Given that {{PAGESINCATEGORY:Candidates for speedy deletion as having been created by blocked or banned users}}}} is returning 1 (1), I'm guessing this is an issue along the lines of T224360, T85696 and/or T221795. recountCategories.php is run monthly which should prevent most drift, but it may need running again for enwiki — this recounts all categories though, so I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable running it without getting the OK from someone "in the know"  TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 13:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
In the meantime, queries like this (a specific category) or this (a depth-1 category tree) can usually find the broken page; restoring and redeleting it often fixes it. —Cryptic 02:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
...or at least, they can usually find it when Quarry isn't hung. The problem pages were Draft:Bucked Up (both G5 and G11 cats), Draft:Jack Carden, and Draft:SAMM - Smart Automatic Meal Maker, and the counts are good now. —Cryptic 02:29, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

What percentage of editors use VisualEditor?

I use VisualEditor for almost everything I do on Wikipedia, and I'm curious to see how many people share my editing workflow, because it seems that on most edit histories that I view, the article edit history consists mostly of regular edits, not VE edits. Where can I obtain statistics on the usage share of VisualEditor? Thanks! Félix An (talk) 12:23, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

There's probably some way to get more exact statistics, but I just checked Special:RecentChanges, with the filters "Human (not bot)" and "Page edits". Filtered for the tag "#Visual edit", the last 500 edits go back ca. 35 minutes, while with the filter "not #Visual edit", the last 500 changes only go back 5 minutes. So I'd guess that means approximately 1 in 8 human edits is done with VisualEditor. I'm not sure whether it's possible to get actual statistics "per editor" instead of "per edit", but I can imagine that it'd be a bit more than 1 in 8, because I think editors who make a lot of edits are more likely to use the source editor, but that's just my hunch. --rchard2scout (talk) 13:39, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
To improve on this method slightly, I think it's better to compare "#Visual edit" to "#wikieditor (hidden tag)" (to exclude edits made with various gadgets), and to limit the results to the main namespace (as usage in other namespaces is very different, e.g. templates and talk pages have ~0 VE edits for obvious reasons). With this method, the last 500 changes were made in ~40 minutes in visual mode [29] and ~10 minutes in wikitext mode [30]. Matma Rex talk 18:53, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
You've got me interested enough to write a proper SQL query and try to actually count the users. Here's the best I got:
In March 2023, excluding bots and counting only edits in the main namespace, ~18% of users used only visual mode, ~49% used only wikitext mode, and ~3% used them both for different edits. 30% of users used neither of the main two editors; I haven't tried to dig into this, but I think this mostly accounts for alternative wikitext editing experiences (e.g. the mobile site editor, AutoWikiBrowser, 2017 wikitext editor) and gadgets.
No promises that I didn't make some mistake in the query… I'm particularly surprised by the 3% figure. Perhaps someone is willing to review it, or explore different angles. Matma Rex talk 20:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Are you surprised by the 3% because it seems low or high? If it seems high, it is possible that your query captured editors who made just one or two edits with VE, either unintentionally or because they were testing something. In the first three months of 2023, for example, I made 11,700 edits, including one lonely edit with VE. So I would be part of the "both editors" histogram column in a three-month sample. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
It seems low. I read comments all the time from people who use wikitext except for tables, or who use visual except for templates, etc., so I expected to see more of them here. I use both editors myself as well, so maybe I'm biased (although looking at my edits in March, I guess I would be counted as a wikitext-only editor in this query). Matma Rex talk 20:52, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Did your query account for "visual edit: switched" tags? I would expect people who use an editor for only one purpose are likely to switch mid edit. small jars tc 10:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
It didn't, but they should have been counted with the wikitext group (as that tag is only applied when switching to wikitext). I added it to the updated query below to be sure. Matma Rex talk 17:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
The 2017 Wikitext Editor is pretty much the source editor and should be included in that group. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 17:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
You're right, although it is used by very few people, so it barely has an effect on the results. Updated query: Looks like about 0.5% of editors have used 2017 WTE, either exclusively or together with VE. Matma Rex talk 17:25, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

IMO it just makes the already-easy stuff easier and makes the other things that a newish editor needs to learn harder to learn. North8000 (talk) 14:16, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

I use both visual and source, frequently even using both in the same edit. I think markup and templating is far easier with source, while wikilinking and referencing (with the exception of {{sfn}}) is far easier with visual. I used to prefer visual for writing prose, but now I prefer source. Curbon7 (talk) 14:27, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
I use a mix of both. I say that because the 2017 Wikitext Editor (see Meta:2017 wikitext editor although it is out of date) is the Wikitext editor with tools from the visual editor (my favorite is the automatic citation tool which fills out all the needed params for {{cite web}} and various other citation templates automatically). I quite enjoy using it because it makes a lot of things easier while not limiting what I'm able to do (such as editing the Wikitext directly). ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:35, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
User:Salix alba/Citoid is a pretty good way to get the VE citation tool in wikitext 2010. DFlhb (talk) 12:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Die-hard source editor here. Totally agree with North8000. I suspect that visual might help me with complex tables once in a blue moon, but that's about it. In bygone days I suppose I would have been one of those who complained about the invention of the wheel, but something in me totally rejects the idea of clicking on an icon when I know just how to do it by hand - a bit like constructing a long bash command line. I'm obviously somewhere on the scale... (I'm only happy when it rains, I only like it when it's complicated) MinorProphet (talk) 18:27, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
North8000, Curbon7, Blaze Wolf, MinorProphet: I do not think Félix An expects to derive statistics from people remarking (forum-style) on their preferences here. Félix seems to be hoping for a clearer, more immediate approximation of editor usage. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 23:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
This handy spreadsheet says in Column R that 9.2% of non-bot edits on English Wikipedia used visual editor (from the start of Feb 2022 to the end of Jan 2023). Other wikis are generally quite a bit higher. How it breaks down by editor tenure is an interesting question though. the wub "?!" 19:11, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
I use toolbars frequently rather than typing in, e.g., <ref>...</ref>, -- ~~~~, and VE seems to lack those. Add in its very sluggish performance and I generally strive to avoid it. What I'd really like is a snappy visual editor with all of the tools available in the regular editor. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 12:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Visual editor: I typically use visual editor for everything I can. I resisted this for quite a while, but visual editor evolved quite rapidly and in the right direction. One of the things that would be useful is a drive to add content to templates to make them fully compatible with the visual editor. I find it unfortunate that I cannot use visual editor for talk pages, actually. There are, of course, things that are much easier in wikitext or even impossible in visual editor, so I am a switcher on an as needed basis. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:34, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Your response doesn't seem to help answer the question Where can I obtain statistics on the usage share of VisualEditor?, nor are we collecting !votes here. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 03:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Implementing the consensus to set Vector 2022 to full width by default

Given the WMF has refused to do so, and given that they have ignored my comment that if they don't we will, although we would prefer they do as the solution will be cleaner, I think our only option is for us to do this ourselves.

Alexis Jazz has been kind enough to provide the CSS required for us to do this, which can be seen here.

A demonstration of this code can be seen here; note that the flash of unstyled content only appears for the demo, and putting the code in your own vector-2022.css style sheet or in MediaWiki:Vector-2022.css does not result in it.

I'm putting the code here for review by the broader community; if no one sees any issue with it then in line with the consensus at the Vector 2022 rollback RfC I will make an edit request at MediaWiki talk:Vector-2022.css. BilledMammal (talk) 20:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

phab:T332505 and phab:T332426 haven't been "refused" at this point, interested technical editors are welcome to contribute a patch for the first. — xaosflux Talk 21:09, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
The WMF has made it clear through comments at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Rollback of Vector 2022/Archive 2#Proposal for next steps following the closure of the Vector 2022 RfC that they will not be implementing full width as default; I believe that we made the right choice in the introduction of the limited width and that, for readers, we are continuing to make the right choice in the decision to keep it as the default, emphasis mine.
Given this, and given their failure to reply to this comment, I don't see any reason to believe that this will change, regardless of whether the phab tickets remain technically open, and as such we need to do this ourselves. BilledMammal (talk) 21:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
The test would be if there was refusal to promote the patch, doing this server side would be much preferable then client-side hacks, especially for logged out users. As far as DIY, if you have a patch ready submit it and see. — xaosflux Talk 21:16, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
I don't have a patch, but I think a comment from the Chief Product and Technical Officer for the Wikimedia Foundation saying that they are continuing to make the right choice in the decision to keep it as the default is sufficient test; I doubt they'll suddenly reverse their opinion because a patch permitting such an option was provided.
I'm also not particularly eager to spend time learning the WikiMedia code base so that I could create such a patch, as I see no reason to believe it would be accepted - I also note Izno's comment about whether a solution for this would be better done in style sheets. BilledMammal (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
FWIW, I tested that code snippet on test2wiki, and it is not ready as-is, many pages got forced in to an even-narrower viewport that could not be recovered from. Anything like this would need very very extensive testing (think of how much went in to the client-side darkmode hack, and there are still errors reported constantly). — xaosflux Talk 00:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Can you give an idea what sort of pages those appear in? I've also found an issue with preference/contribution/etc pages; I'm working on that one. BilledMammal (talk) 01:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Figured out part of the reason there are issues on contribution/category/etc pages; it's disabled by default there. This does mean that there is a bug in that the toggle shows up even on those pages; I've submitted a bug report. BilledMammal (talk) 02:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Mostly on every Special: page. Note, it isn't just the icon being there or not, that CSS made the entire page much worse. As I noted, this would need extensive testing across all pages and actions before we would ever consider it for production. — xaosflux Talk 09:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't clear; the bug with the toggle was unrelated except for the fact that I discovered it while looking into this. The reason it fails there is because by default the width toggle is disabled on pages in namespaces 12 and -1 (with the exception of user preferences); because this wasn't accounted for it resulted in some unexpected behavior.
Alexis Jazz has produced an updated script that fixes most of those issues, although I believe there are a couple still to resolve - I'll look into it further when I have time, and in the meantime hopefully it will become unnecessary because the WMF will agree to implement it on their end. BilledMammal (talk) 22:41, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
It also seems to break the full/limited width toggle for logged out users.. is the idea to prevent unregistered users from selecting a preference? — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 01:50, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
My tests suggest that it does work for logged out users, although there is still some work to be done per xaosflux - see the demonstration linked above. It could be that the version I'm currently working on broke something there? I've updated the link in the original post to a static container. BilledMammal (talk) 02:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: I looked into creating a patch, and believe I have something that would allow TNT's patch to work; see the bottom of phab:T332505. BilledMammal (talk) 07:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
@BilledMammal: I just wanted to note this somewhere; my interactions with Vector 2022 and the resultant RfC/discussions/etc. have been entirely in my capacity as a volunteer (and I include the above-mentioned patch in that). I'm always more than happy to help where I can though, up to and including writing patches and trying to "prod" the right people to take a look  TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 08:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Thank you, it is appreciated. BilledMammal (talk) 09:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
You might have to translate for us mere non-coding mortals. Would that make it the default for English Wikipedia? North8000 (talk) 21:18, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
Yes, this CSS would make full width the default on the English wikipedia if added to MediaWiki:Vector-2022.css. BilledMammal (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
Hi everyone, thank you for bringing this up. I just wanted to mention that the discussion on next steps is still ongoing on this page and we’re still working on the best way to proceed. We have presented a few different options for how all users can clearly choose which width they prefer, and which the community is currently discussing and weighing the pros and cons of. There is also discussion of how we can respect current existing user preferences on the width. We hope to allow a few more days for discussion and provide a summary and concrete next steps by Tuesday, April 4. @SDeckelmann-WMF is out this week, but will be back next week to continue the conversation. OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 01:01, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
@OVasileva (WMF): To clarify, are you saying that things have changed since 25 March and you will now be respecting the consensus to set the default for logged-out users as full width? BilledMammal (talk) 01:05, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz has produced an updated version of the CSS file, which may have fixed the issues you saw Xaosflux; so far, I'm not noticing any. It can be found here. BilledMammal (talk) 09:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

All this is so sad, and I bet most people are tired of it. So there was a well hidden RFC, where someone snuck in a second question somewhere near the bottom of the page. And some people answered what they liked better, and there were some good arguments like why any publication ever published had limited line length. Expectedly, no agreement was reached. But hey, there's consensus, and we'll make the English Wikipedia different from any other Wikipedia in the World, and we're gonna push it just so we can show who's the boss. That RFC was like me standing in the long return line at Costco the other day; guess what, everyone had to say something against Costco, 100% consensus! 300 people is by no means a majority of users. It's not even a majority of this Wikipedia's administrators. But okay, keep pushing your agenda, enjoy your 1.5 foot line lengths. 2604:CA00:16B:990E:0:0:662:4239 (talk) 18:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

You are implying that the majority of arguments either way where WP:ILIKEIT, which is not the case. They presented considerations that involve the implications of the changes on the experience of all users, not just the preferences of the RfC's participants. It is also strange that you are calling one of the most participated-in RfCs of all time "well hidden," and the second question was there almost from the start. small jars tc 09:18, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
well hidden the RfC was listed at WP:CENT, notified at every applicable noticeboard and talk page, even including Donald Trump’s talk page for some reason, and reached WP:300 levels for support, WP:200 for oppose, and over 150 participants in the second question alone. Aaron Liu (talk) 02:01, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
English Wikipedia was already different from the rest of the world long before a Vector 2022 was ever considered. Every wiki is unique. Not sure what you were heading at there. Tvx1 21:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

I personally would wait to see what WMF does before diving into CSS. It is WP:NOTAVOTE, it is a consensus process. Whatever we do we should take into account practical considerations, like different screen sizes and devices. Maybe set the "limited width" to only take effect as soon as the screen is extended beyond a specific screen resolution (like 1080px)? This is a good compromise between those that want some fixed width and those that want unlimited width. Then we do not have to worry about window resizing or any of that nonsense. It could be an in-between toggle. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 14:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Then the contention would be that the width that you need to go to before fixed width takes effect is wider than the scientific optimum. small jars tc 15:41, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
We already have a consensus on the matter. A “compromise” here is unacceptable. Default width needs to be default. Toa Nidhiki05 22:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Please also note that a hacky workaround like this can easily break if the skin gets redesigned. Vector 2022 is still a new skin, and there will certainly be changes to make the skin stable. We should certainly give it time to evolve to meet the needs of the community and its readers. I know of many of my tools that have broken because of redesigns. Let's not make this hack be one of them. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 22:32, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
It’s almost like the skin isn’t ready for prime time. But regardless, WMF can resolve this but implementing unlimited width. I hope they do so. Toa Nidhiki05 01:27, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
V22 has been in the works for years and always based on v10, a sudden redesign to the width is very unlikely. Aaron Liu (talk) 02:02, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
Maybe not right now, but when they fully deploy? This will certainly be something that will need to be considered given the skin is still a WIP. I have a feeling the Vector 2022 that you see in seven or eight months will be a different skin than the Vector 2022 you see right now. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 17:02, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
I don’t think they would make such a major change to limited width, a very small (code-wise) feature, after working on this skin for so long Aaron Liu (talk) 11:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
While technically any workaround would be our problem, in practice the WMF will need to be careful not to break it as they have a strong interest in not breaking enwiki. BilledMammal (talk) 18:09, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Patch rejection and further consideration of the proposed CSS change

It appears that the WMF is not willing to consider the patch I proposed, and do not appear willing to produce a patch of their own. As such, our only option appears to be the CSS. I will review the code provided by Alexis Jazz further, to identify any remaining issues, and similar efforts by other editors would be appreciated. BilledMammal (talk) 02:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

If you're referring to T332505, it may be worth seeing what the outcome of the meeting tomorrow is? I'm not sure the only option is changing the sitewide CSS. — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 12:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
They don't consider your patch because a logged-out invert would require changing a variable in the source code instead of a dollar-sign preference. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
@Aaron Liu: Are you referring to where we replace the class name to switch? If you are I do it that way because the WMF's existing code does it that way and I wanted to minimize changes. BilledMammal (talk) 19:26, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Nevermind, it was something else but I got confused. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:37, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Nevermind again, I was right the first time. Wouldn't the logged-out users snippet change the behavior for every wiki instead of delegating the preference to a variable? Aaron Liu (talk) 20:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
@BilledMammal Aaron Liu (talk) 23:31, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
@Aaron Liu: No; implementing my change wouldn't change the behavior for any wiki. TNT's patch would then change the behavior for enwiki. BilledMammal (talk) 13:38, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Software Stable Release Infobox

The Stable Release field on the SponsorBlock infobox is broken, displaying every version number instead of just the latest. I've compared the wikitext for the infobox to other software articles and it looks to be the same so I've no idea what is actually causing this. It could be Wikidata itself causing the issue but I'm afraid I just don't know enough about this to tell. Any help would be appreciated as it's been like this for a number of months now. – Mesidast (talk) 10:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

d:Q103887994#P348 is missing a 'preferred rank' which has been removed by a bot: d:Special:Diff/1877574242. hgzh 12:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
I created a section about this problem at the talk page of the template in November 2022. --Kallichore (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
As User:Jonesey95 pointed out the number of sites with this problem can be found using the search function here: currently 22 articles with this problem are found. --Kallichore (talk) 16:38, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

What's the best way to set my preferences for editing, particularly adding citations?

Besides the usual, eg a toolbar with strike, etc., I want to be able to add citations easily - ie for journals, news, books, etc by adding either details or using an url. I must have messed something up. Using the Vector 2022. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 16:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: Have you tried using the 2017 Wikitext Editor? While that does make use of the feature through a toolbar that sounds like what you might be looking for. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 16:23, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Sounds like you accidentally disabled refToolbar. Nardog (talk) 16:51, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Nardog I'm sure I have, can't figure out how to get it back. I must have something ticked that I shouldn't. So many options! Doug Weller talk 17:00, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
It's in the Gadgets tab. You can also use the new search box at the top. Nardog (talk) 17:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Nardog @Blaze WolfEnabled but I don’t get it. Can’t find the 2017 Wikitext Editor even through the nifty search box. Thanks, sorry to be a pain. Doug Weller talk 17:33, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: That's because the 2017 Wikitext Editor is currently in beta. It's under the "Beta features" tab as "New Wikitext editor". ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 17:36, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Blaze Wolf That’s part of the Visual editor isn’t it? Which I don’t like. I feel pretty useless right now! :) But as I need to add a lot of sources… Doug Weller talk 17:50, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Technically yes. However it behaves just like the source editor except it has the visual editor's toolbar. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 18:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Blaze Wolf what I had before was the Ref toolbar. Doug Weller talk 18:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Yes I realize that now, I misinterpreted what you were asking. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 18:29, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
AFAIK refToolbar isn't compatible with the 2017 editor. Do you at least see the toolbar buttons as in this screenshot? Nardog (talk) 17:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@NardogNo, that's what I'm trying to get back. Wish I could have that with wiked but I don't think I can. I've tried to unclick most things. Did I always get a "Preview of references" and not notice it? I may have to give up tonight and comeback tomorrow with screenshots. Thanks. You've been great. Doug Weller talk 18:04, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Is "Enable the editing toolbar" on? Nardog (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Nardog no, should it be? Doug Weller talk 18:24, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Yes. Galobtter (talk) 18:33, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Blaze Wolf@Nardog AGH! I've been checking it on Safari on my iPad, that's the problem. Well, I had lost it, but with help here I've got it back. I never add sources using Safari on my iPad and it just slipped my mind that I'm a Chrome user on my PC which is what I normally use to edit. iPad's just to clumsy. So I've got wikEd and Reftoolbar 2 now, life is good. Doug Weller talk 18:36, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Sounds like the same problem as the one discussed in #JavaScript above in relation to the third item in #Tech News: 2023-14. That is, MediaWiki's JavaScript support for your iPad has recently been dropped. Nardog (talk) 19:38, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Nardog Thanks for the explanation. Doug Weller talk 20:24, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Problem with bots today?

Reports that I use that are issued daily by HaleBot and SDZeroBot didn't get published today. Is there some system-wide problem? I scanned this page and don't see any pertinent announcement. But I find every time I post on this noticeboard, there is usually someone who knows what's up. Thanks for any clue you can bring to this situation. Liz Read! Talk! 01:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Looks like there's a problem with the database. Page statistics like pageviews, date created etc. are not loading. Jeeputer Talk 02:52, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The problems with HaleBot have been remedied but I assume other bots are still having issues. I noticed my own editing stats were not up-to-date earlier in the day. It's just usually when this thing happens or a ticket is filed, some technologically-minded editor posts about it here. But thanks for your observation, Jeeputer. Liz Read! Talk! 03:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Over the past few months, I've observed database reports that I maintain randomly missing days and/or data. I redeploy the service each time I see this, and it works again for several weeks until it doesn't. Would not be surprised if this has something to do with wikitech:News/Toolforge Grid Engine deprecation. -FASTILY 07:37, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Still can't get edit toolbars back

@Writ Keeper: I tried the suggestion in Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 205#How to get edit toolbars back and still don't the edit toolbars, even after reboot. I do have Javascript enabled and it used to work before I added some things to my preferences. Any suggestions short of reverting to default?

And, yes, I should have kept a log of what I added, when, so that it would have been easier to back off changes :-( -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 14:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Chatul: Izno mentioned in that thread that the reason you no longer have the toolbar is because your browser does not support sufficient functionality in ES6. See #Tech News: 2023-14. Upgrading your browser or your OS and browser are your only recourses. Izno is very knowledgeable about such things, so I'd expect them to be right. Are you able to upgrade your browser? Writ Keeper  14:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, I misread the date on that and thought that it was the version I was already using. There is a version of Dooble curently in beta test for my system; I'll try that. I was somewhat surprised to see that it supports gopher but not mailto.
Thanks. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
No problem, I hope that works for you. (Also, to answer your question from that thread, no, you shouldn't have to log out and back in for preference changes to take effect; you'll just need to navigate away from Special:Preferences, which is always displayed in Safe Mode for security reasons.) Writ Keeper  15:16, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


Where do I go to raise an issue with the MLA output formatting generated by Special:CiteThisPage ? Nthep (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Probably MediaWiki talk:Citethispage-content? stwalkerster (talk) 17:58, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


I beg your pardon. I after creating User:UBX/Marina Diamandis and adding it in my own username page, I can see her category: Marina Diamandis below my username page. also my username has been added into category: Marina Diamandis - Are you able to fix it please? I don't know how and I am not! Regarding. NameGame (talk) 16:22, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Odd. The userbox template isn't adding the category to your userpage anymore, but it's appearing in the category. Purging the cache for either page doesn't help. Not sure! it might just go away after some time. SWinxy (talk) 17:04, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
By now, there is not "category:Marina Diamandis" in my username page anymore. But unfortunately I see my username NameGame has not been removed from category:Marina Diamandis. @SWinxy Thank you for your attention, I wish it'll be disappeared soon. NameGame (talk) 17:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
I made a null edit of User:NameGame. This removed the user page from the category page. A purge only affects the purged page but a purge of a category page doesn't update the listed pages, only the output of the wikitext in the category page. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Good to know. If that's the case, the advice that is linked to by "This list may not reflect recent changes." should be altered: (It may help if you purge the page.) SWinxy (talk) 00:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
I was unclear. I meant a purge of a category page doesn't affect which pages are listed. There is no way to get an updated list without already knowing which pages need adding/removing and making a null edit on each of them. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
My username has been removed from category:Marina Diamandis & I no longer see it in there. I appreciate your help everyone. I wish happiness to you all. NameGame (talk) 08:37, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Copy options for indicator/tooltip in the Vector 2022 full/limited width toggle

Hey everyone, on the Rollback of Vector 2022 RfC talk page, there's a discussion about three copy options for indicator/tooltip. This is about some text that is to be shown next to the full/limited width toggle in the bottom right corner of the screen. It is a continuation of the discussion on our proposal for next steps following the closure of the Vector 2022 RfC. We invite you to review the copies and share which one you prefer. Thank you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Retrieve cross-wiki notifications

Today, I got pinged from a discussion in the Irish Wikipedia, something to do with User:Ritchie333/Irish Monopoly. Unfortunately I can't speak any Irish, so I cleared the notification with the idea I'd come back and run it through a translation utility to get the jist. However, the notification's now disappeared from my list, which only shows ones on the English Wikipedia. How can I get it back? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:32, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

You need to go to the Notifications page on the Irish Wikipedia: (same as ga:Special:Notifications). Cross-wiki notifications have several annoying bugs: another one is if you use the "small screen" version of Monobook or Vector2010, you get the red number, but you can't access the notification. (I then need to rotate my phone to be able to see what the notification is). —Kusma (talk) 14:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

British heritage railways page preview error

As raised here at its talk by another editor, the Page Preview for List of British heritage and private railways does not show up properly, providing this:

wt2html: wikitextSize limit exceeded

rather than the lead, not sure why, the page has two interactive map templates at the start however. The error occurs on Chrome, Edge and Firefox for me. DankJae 22:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

This is phab:T286355 where Jonesey95 reported the same page. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I need technical assistance with a note

Basically, I was trying to add a note like I saw in this diff. I tried to do it here and it is wigging out.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:30, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Fixed in this edit. The software was picking up the = in games=5.179 and treating all the text before that as a parameter name, meaning there was no parameter 1, which is why it complained about no content. Aidan9382 (talk) 16:33, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
User:Aidan9382, Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

AIV helper bot down again

Hi all.

The HBC AIV helperbot5 is down again, it hasn't made an edit since 23:37, 20 April 2023 UTC.

Apparently the bot was down previously in earlier April, due to a scheduled outage of the Toolforge framework that it runs on.

However, this time I don't see any planned outage notices anywhere?

Just wanted to bring awareness to this. I've already notified the bot owner.

Regards, — AP 499D25 (talk) 11:04, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

You mean I have to remove entries manually after I make a block?! What is this? Les Mis? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Unfortunately, yes. It's like manual transmission! Tails Wx 12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Not sure what happened here but I've restarted it now. — JamesR (talk) 13:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Why not reactivate the other HBC AIV helperbots so that this does not happen again? Lightoil (talk) 13:58, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Javascript errors continously pop up

This always seems to show up every time I click on my alerts or notifications...

Hi! Whenever I click on the alert or notification buttons, there's always this "Javascript error" that pops up, and this distracts me from clearing my notifications. Does anyone know how to fix this? I thought it was the latest script I had added to my common.js page but apparently it continued after I removed it and even prior to the addition. Tails Wx 17:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but you can turn off those error popups by unchecking the relevant gadgetTheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 17:55, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Since when were those turned on? Anyway, thanks! Now I won't have to contend with the errors no more! Tails Wx 17:57, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm getting these new errors as well. I've had Javascript errors turned on for a while, and those red error messages pop up very occasionally, but they are more regular now when I click on the red notification bell. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:24, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
I've also been getting these errors recently. — Qwerfjkltalk 06:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
This seems to trigger for me when I attempt to open the notifications menu. Looks like incorrect usage of classList.... —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Will be fixed in next weeks update. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:06, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Is it "standard practice" to convert all links in an article, all of which are working properly, to Internet Archive links, on the reasoning that doing so "prevents link rot"? Isn't it the case that by converting all the links to IA links, if IA ever goes belly-up, we lose all of the links that have been unnecessarily converted, whereas if they were left as they were, each separate source would have to go bad in order the same the same effect? Beyond My Ken (talk) 12:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

No, I am pretty sure it's not "standard practice" Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:43, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Adding archive-url as a parameter is fine, done by bot like IABot, replacing the original url with an archive is not fine. Indagate (talk) 12:48, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Could somebody, tell User:Rhain that (at User talk:Rhain#"Standard procedure") that, and User:CastJared (at User talk:CastJared#McSorley's Old Ale House) many of whose edits appear to be doing just that. This came in the context of the editing of these two users at McSorley's Old Ale House, which I attempted to revert. Beyond My Ken (talk) 12:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
No links have been replaced. For context, check this diff. – Rhain (he/him) 12:55, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
As Rhain noted, no links have been replaced. They've actually made the article better by adding backup IA links. Gonnym (talk) 12:59, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
The links are no longer the actual links, they are copies of the linked material, which means that we are trusting the Internet Archive to be accurately reproducing the New York Times article, instead of just trusting the New York Times website to be accurately showing its own article. Trusting IA is fine when the original material is no longer online, since we have no choice in the matter, but why are we allowing the use of what are essentially secondary links when the primary links are still available? This makes little sense to me in terms of guaranteeing accuracy. If this is policy, I think it's a mistake (and Rhain's citations of supporting policy do not seem to be to be relevant.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
The title is linked to the original URL as long as |url-status=live is set. Nardog (talk) 13:07, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
The original link hasn't been changed and is still there. They've added a second link. Please actually look at the citation text before reverting. Gonnym (talk) 13:07, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
If it helps, compare this ref to this one—the only difference is the extra "Archived from the original...". The rest of the ref remains intact. – Rhain (he/him) 13:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
OK, I stand corrected. Thanks to all for the education. Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:13, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
I asked User:HJ Mitchell the same thing a while back. Here's his viewpoint. 1AmNobody24 (talk) 13:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
@BMK: I see this is resolved but the point of adding the archive links now is that it is very likely that a link which works now will not work in a couple of years because websites change all the time with no thought for maintaining old information. Once a page has gone, it becomes very difficult (or impossible) to find and harder to be sure that what is found is actually what the original editor had in mind. Therefore, it is best if external links are archived now, while they are working. Johnuniq (talk) 23:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, I appreciate the information. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
I find archiving live links to be perfectly acceptable IF there's a possibility or a suspicion of the link to go dead. Pages for a live sports competition (e.g. Sure. Less so. DatGuyTalkContribs 01:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
The New York Times? Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:02, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
iff? — Qwerfjkltalk 09:59, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Looking for categorization reporting tool

Hi there! I'm looking for a tool that would do the following:

  • Allow you to enter a page (from any namespace) and a category
  • If the page is included in a subcategory, then return a result showing the entire category path from the category entered to the category on the page (i.e. category, sub-category, sub-sub-category,...)

I'm asking because I've created a recursive list of talk pages within Category:Wikipedia infobox backlog, and many of the pages in the result don't seem to have a parameter such as |needs-infobox=yes. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Help if possible

Greetings everyone,

I'm in need of assistance with the "New articles" section on Portal:Algeria, as it is currently not functioning properly. To be honest, I have no clue how to address the issue.

Thank you in advance for any help that can be provided. Riad Salih (talk) 12:38, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Riad Salih: See User:AlexNewArtBot#How to add feeds to the new article bot. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Template that supports multiple sets of parameters

Given template {{A}} which supports parameters 1-4 but I have multiple sets of parameters, I can do:


I believe Wikimedia templates allow one to invoke a template once but pass it multiple sets of parameters but I have been unable to find the relevant template documentation. I found it several months ago so I'm fairly certain it is supported. So, instead of the above, I can do:
{{A| red|255|0|0 ; green|0|255|0 ; blue|0|0|255 }}

The template syntax is probably not quite correct (i.e. semi-colon set separator) to distinguish the multiple sets of data. RedWolf (talk) 20:40, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The template would need to support unnamed parameters |5=, |6=, etc., at which point you could write:
{{A|red|255|0|0|green|0|255|0|blue|0|0|255}} and the template would work just fine. A few templates have been set up to work like this. Off the top of my head, the only one I can think of is {{Video game release}}. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:21, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
If you're asking if there is an inherent feature of template syntax so that one invocation of a template will automatically be turned into multiple invocations, no, that doesn't exist. The template in question would have to be coded to support processing multiple sets of parameters, as you describe it. To do it in a way that supports unlimited sets of parameters (within underlying resource constraints) would require the template to be implemented with a Lua module. isaacl (talk) 01:29, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
{{For loop}} with explicit values (option 2) can do something like this without having to code the wanted template for it. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:52, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm certain that within the last few months there was a thread, not necessarily at VPT, about passing a table (or possibly an array) as a parameter into a template or module. It was explained that this was not possible, but the OP persisted in asking the same question with variations. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Maybe it was Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 202#Try making templates. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Possibly, although I seem to recall a greater amount of not-getting-it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:38, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Dark mode icon

I was looking at the user menu at the top right on the main page, and I noticed that the icon next to the dark mode toggle was doubled.


I am using Safari v16.4 for iPadOS, if that helps.

DrowssapSMM (talk) 01:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@SD0001 and Xaosflux: It looks like the workaround is no longer needed. Can you see if this patch works? Nardog (talk) 03:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. I add several links in my personal JavaScript and they all got the dark mode icon before in Vector 2022. Now they get no icon. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:32, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Oh, it looks like we've been using portletId where it should have been portletLinkId all this time. My bad. Nardog (talk) 03:45, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Sorry I was away, not sure if something is pending me? If it is a page that needs to be synced/updated that doesn't have an open edit request, please drop one of those in the meantime. — xaosflux Talk 16:47, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: No worries. Can you sync the JS on testwiki with the patch? Nardog (talk) 13:04, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
@Nardog   Done Talk 13:24, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
I have experienced this multiple times before, mostly on pc, but never got around to reporting this. Thank you. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 19:40, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

New font: many important buttons are missing on mobile

I dislike Wikipedia's new look with a burning passion for many reasons, but one of the most annoying is how so many the buttons, including such important ones as the search bar, don't even work on mobile unless you switch to the mobile view (and kill categories). Please don't just say "just use the mobile view" because it should be obvious by now that it's not nearly as functional as the desktop view. Thanks. w.i.k.i.w.a.r.r.i.o.r9919 05:28, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

WikiWarrior9919, here is my suggestion: Use the fully functional desktop view on your mobile device, and switch back to the good old fashioned Vector 2010 skin. Get the details at Wikipedia:Vector 2022#How to turn off the new skin. That will allow you to avoid two different types of shenanigans imposed on mobile users by the Wikimedia Foundation. Cullen328 (talk) 05:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
FWIW, I find Timeless much better on mobile, because it's the only skin that properly scales to fit the screen. Sojourner in the earth (talk) 05:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Well, what about users who are too lazy to log in? (Which is admittedly me sometimes.) w.i.k.i.w.a.r.r.i.o.r9919 06:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Tough shit? --Jayron32 15:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
1. What if you genuinely like Vector 2022, consider it an improvement over Vector 2010, and don't want to switch back? And you think everything is fine except for the mobile search bug?
2. What about people who can't create accounts because they use Wikipedia at school, on VPNs, using mobile data, etc.? "Just create an account at home!" Well, what if you only want to browse Wikipedia and not edit? w.i.k.i.w.a.r.r.i.o.r9919 16:38, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
All my buttons work. Can you give a more accurate description ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm also confused. The recent changes to Vector didn't change any font AFAIK. The desktop search bar and other buttons work fine for me in a mobile browser. Although it shouldn't be a huge surprise that if you opt to use an interface specifically designed for large screens on a small screen, instead of the one specifically designed for small screens, it's a bit more fiddly. – Joe (talk) 07:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Joe Roe, the misnamed "desktop" site is fully functional on contemporary smartphones using Vector 2010. My edit history for the last 12 years demonstrates that. "Fiddly" is an almost incomprehensible term to Americans. To me, a Californian, it comes across as "resembling a violin used for dance music or bluegrass music" although I am sure you meant something else. Cullen328 (talk) 07:45, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm also an American, and I find "fiddly" to be a perfectly cromulent word. Anomie 12:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
"Fiddly" is perfectly understandable to this American. And I have never had a problem with other Americans not understanding my use of it. Did you perhaps mean to limit your comment to those Americans north of the Mason-Dixon line or west of Texas? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Canadian here and I understand it. It just means something that needs to be fiddled with. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 12:40, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Ex-Californian here and although I've never heard the word "fiddly" before, I assume it means something that needs to be fiddled with to work properly. Liz Read! Talk! 16:58, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
No, it's as in wikt:fiddly#Adjective entry 1. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:33, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Ah yes, everyone's favorite Wikipedia game "My dialect is different than yours!" --Jayron32 15:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
When I press the magnifying glass, nothing happens. I literally can't access the search function, forcing me to either temporarily switch to the more zoomed-in mobile mode and then have to switch back, or directly edit the URL.
I apologize if this conversation has been had hundreds of times on Wikipedia already, but... what's the use of forcibly switching the entire wiki to a new interface when said interface is janky and half-baked? w.i.k.i.w.a.r.r.i.o.r9919 16:34, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
You haven't said what version of which browser you are using or anything. You are the only person with this problem so far, so likely it is something specific to your setup. Either the browser, the extensions, ad blockers, userscripts or gadgets. Which of those, is impossible to say from the outside without more information. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:11, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
also.... why is this even on the proposals page ????? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:12, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Yes this should be moved to WP:VPT Galobtter (talk) 08:24, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Wasted space at the top and bottom of <gallery> element

There is a lot of wasted space at the top and bottom of <gallery> element. Seen here using Pesticide browser extension.

Why is there a huge white wasted space at the top and bottom of <gallery> element? This pushes the gallery much lower than it should be. In this picture of 118th United States Congress, the html for Senate gallery is coded above the composition table, in order for them to hang from the same line, but a reader sees it some three lines down. It being down, further pushes the House diagram to the down, which both further push the images lower than where it should be. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 14:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

mw-gallery-slideshow gets margin: 4em 0; somewhere outside Wikipedia. 4em is the top and bottom margin. I don't know why it's so large. You can change it with for example <gallery style="margin: 1em 0;" .... PrimeHunter (talk) 16:02, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks I reduced the margin to 0em, and it works, but is there some way it could be fixed backend? CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 19:44, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
That's quite unusual use of <gallery>...</gallery> to begin with. Why would anyone put it inside a floating table?? Should be {{multiple image}} or something like that. Ponor (talk) 12:21, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
For now, {{multiple image}} may work. But, in 117th Congress page, there are 33 images for the House composition, so this slideshow version is the one that works best for every Congress article. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 12:48, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Templates being wrapped in nowiki tags when using the reply function

Has something changed with the reply function? I was posting a message including a template, and it was wrapped in nowiki tags. I've just tried to do something similar here, and instead a mass choose Template popup opened. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 14:22, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Ignore me, I see a Visual editor option has been added (and made default). Using the Source option restores the expected behaviour. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 14:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
@ActivelyDisinterested: You've got me curious. According to WP:VE the Visual Editor is disabled on Talk and Discussion pages. What page were you replying on that it let use use visual editor? RudolfRed (talk) 19:48, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
The original issue was with this edit to Talk:Patricia Wald. But as I write this I have the option to switch between Visual and Source, in the top left corner of my reply. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 20:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Top righ hand corner for me on this page. Doug Weller talk 20:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks for the replies. RudolfRed (talk) 22:29, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
This is about the Reply tool at mw:Help:DiscussionTools. It has a visual mode with similarities to VisualEditor. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:38, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you, that clears up my confusion. RudolfRed (talk) 18:40, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-17

MediaWiki message delivery 22:01, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

how do I remove the image showing the state of TX from Chacon Creek?

Even if I reduce the article down to just a stripped down infobox the state of TX map still appears, at least in the preview:

{{Infobox river
 | name              = Chacon Creek

Even if I change the name from Chacon Creek to, say, Chacon Crzzzeek, the state of TX image still appears.

Any ideas? TerraFrost (talk) 21:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

That displays because 1) it fits the criteria to be a page image and 2) it is the only such image on the page.
If you had an actual picture of the creek somewhere in the infobox it would likely display instead. IznoPublic (talk) 21:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Template:Infobox river is one of those annoying infoboxes that pulls some of its data from Wikidata, in this case via Module:WikidataIB. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:58, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Click "Wikidata item" under "Tools" to see where the image comes from. You can override the Wikidata image with |image=. There doesn't appear to be a documented way to omit an image. |image=<nowiki /> currently works by producing an empty cell. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:34, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
@TerraFrost: If you have a better image to use, File:Map of Texas Highlighting Chacon Creek.png could probably be added to MediaWiki:Pageimages-denylist to force the other image to appear. Home Lander (talk) 22:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
MediaWiki:Pageimages-denylist is about images which cannot be selected by mw:Extension:PageImages. They can still be shown in articles. I don't think TerraFrost is thinking about the page image but just about what is shown in the infobox. We only use MediaWiki:Pageimages-denylist for images which are transcluded into many articles. Last year the extension got a new feature |class=notpageimage for use in the page itself. See mw:Extension:PageImages#Can I exclude certain page images? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
I have moved the map (which is not an image of the creek) into locator map image (P242) and it no longer displays in the infobox — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 04:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Interactive cropping tool?

I find the int cropping tool (template) to be invaluable, but difficult to use. Is there an interactive version that I'm not finding? Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:35, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

If your target is to create a cropped file and overwrite the existing one with it or create a new file, then you may use CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 13:08, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

How to name /doc subpage?

I want to create a subpage for a /doc page, say for a supporting (documentation) table. What is a good naming convention?

A. Always end with /doc: {{Infobox foobar/option-table/doc}}
B. Below /doc: {{Infobox foobar/doc/option-table}}

Only consideration I know of, IIRC: in module space, a doc page is recognised & handled by (B) name ending /doc. (A) has easier page listing. DePiep (talk) 13:23, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

{{documentation}} by default calls the documentation by appending /doc to the current title. Although, the called page can be changed using appropriate parameters, I'd still think that the best practice would be to have /doc at the very end, just like /sandbox and /testcases work. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 13:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Makes sense, can do. Though, a supporting doc page (say, a table) would be called (transcluded) in an other docpages section; rarely by automated naming. DePiep (talk) 13:48, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
I'd think that option A would be for the documentation of {{Infobox foobar/option-table}} (which would be a subtemplate used in the implementation of {{Infobox foobar}}). Option B would be if you have a table that's transcluded onto {{Infobox foobar/doc}}. --rchard2scout (talk) 14:04, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Of course, how obvious this way. Very simple & smart. Also encompasses what CXZ wrote. Thx. DePiep (talk) 17:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistent display of annotated images

{{Annotated image}} seems to sometimes not show the image. At Nore, using Chrome I see a white frame with the words "The Nore" in red. In Safari on MacOS, I see the map. Other users on Discord reported seeing the image on Chrome, or not seeing the image in Safari on iOS. Is this a known bug? —Kusma (talk) 16:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

The Annotated image template say |image-width= should be the width of the original image, it's currently set to 3800 but the original image width is 11234. Setting image-width correctly in preview gets the image to display for me, but I'm guessing it not displaying the correct area as |image-top= and |image-left= will need to be corrected. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 21:03, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Ah later it says image-width doesn't have to match, but the image won't display correctly for me unless it is (chrome/android/desktop site/vector 2010 for reference). -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 21:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
After some work figures of image-width=11234, image-top=-6890 and image-top=-230 puts the image in the correct place for me. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 21:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Template / module to test if a page is redirect?

i'm trying to build a template that does the following.

if pagename = stringA then




here, i encounter a problem. stringA should be a pagename, but sometimes the page has been moved, so stringA is the pagename of the redirect to the actual pagename. i can think of two solutions to this problem, either " pagename = stringA || target of stringA ", or test whether stringA is a redirect, if yes ignore.

is there template or module that deals with redirects? either resolving them or testing them? RZuo (talk) 07:54, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

You can certainly do that in a module using the title object. It looks like Module:Redirect might serve your purpose. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:12, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Clearing script warnings for source templates

See Eucalyptol as an example, edit, then preview which shows 3 script template errors: a maintenance message for a book template, an error message for a journal, and a maintenance message for a journal. Help provides this information. When previewing, I see no color notifications to enable a revision for repairs. Because these messages are "hidden", I added scripts to my common.css page, then cleared cache as suggested, but with no success.

I am still seeing such error messages on other articles, so apparently have not completed the scripts correctly. Would appreciate explanation/help to correctly load the scripts. Use my common.css page if needed. Thanks. Zefr (talk) 17:24, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I have fixed your CSS page. Refresh, and you should see the issues of interest.
Did you copy-paste those directly? If so, from where? Izno (talk) 17:28, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, Izno. Quite sure I got the scripts from here, but can't explain why the "span" was omitted. On Eucalyptol preview, the template errors are now visible. Great fast response and solution - many thanks! Zefr (talk) 17:38, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Biographical article categorized as missing living, listas parameters even though it isn't

I'm not sure if this is a technical issue or if I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure it out. Recently (over the last week), I've noticed that when I add (or sometimes when someone else adds) a living or listas parameter to a {{WikiProject Biography}} template on an article's talk page, it occasionally just doesn't work. The BLP warning isn't included and the pages stay in the respective maintenance categories. Sometimes I can get it to work by rearranging the order of parameters (I have no idea why that would work) or by deleting them and readding them. A current example of this is Talk:Dorian Rhea Debussy. If anyone knows why this happens, please let me know! Clearfrienda 💬 00:48, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@MSGJ probably relevant to banner shell things. Izno (talk) 01:22, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
There were two {{WikiProject Biography}}. The second had no parameters. I have removed it.[37] PrimeHunter (talk) 01:28, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Alright, that was the problem. Thanks! Clearfrienda 💬 01:31, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

After clicking Show Preview button, Vector 2022 skin doesn't show catalog of contents any more

The legacy Vector skin allow to preview the table of contents after clicking Show Preview button, which also display the level of each subtitle. Also, it looks have benifit for editing multiple sections together, or even edit the who article. However, I can't see such preview any more after upgrading to Vector 2022 skin. What's wrong with it? -- Great Brightstar (talk) 15:50, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I've left a note on phab:T294950. This was working at some point. Izno (talk) 15:55, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Page Creation

Hello, do anyone know how do I check for list of page created in certain month in any Wikipedia specifically Malay Wikipedia? I'd like to check the list of past 3-4 month but I couldn't figure out how. Special pages only show limited to 1-2 month only. [Special page for new pages]. I need the list of this newly created pages to be enlisted in a WikiProject. Is there any tools or any ways I can do so? I tried changing the limit and days in the link, but I didn't work out. Would be glad if anyone could assist me. Thank you. CyberTroopers (talk) 19:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

@CyberTroopers: Special:Log/create. I don't think it can be filtered by namespace or omit deleted pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:56, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter I did check on that but only few days or a month only can be viewed. There was no option to select certain date or range more than 2 months. Any other solution? Thank you CyberTroopers (talk) 17:10, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
@CyberTroopers: Are you sure you are talking about my link Special:Log/create and not Special:NewPages? I have a "From date" date box at Special:Log/create and ms:Special:Log/create. January 1 at the Malay Wikipedia gives this: If the date box doesn't appear or work for you then you can modify the url manually. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:49, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter Sorry, my bad. I didn't notice the difference of both. This is indeed really helpful! Thank you so much, I really appreciate your help. CyberTroopers (talk) 20:09, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Annotating watchlist?

Is there any way to annotate my watchlist?

Most of the time I add articles to my list simply because I'm interested in the subject, but sometimes I add an article because a particular vandal or LTA likes to edit it, or because the article is generally subject to sub-standard edits. It would be helpful if I could note on the watchlist (presumably in the raw list) any specific reason for my addition, so I could refer to it when articles pop up after a long hiatus, and I wonder why the heck it's on my list.

Any thoughts? Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

That would be nice. The closest I'm aware of is time limited watching. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 00:04, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
I do not think a script exists that would do this. Some alternatives that exist today:
  1. Sync to Notepad or equivalent
  2. Use a Special:Recentchangeslinked subpage.
Izno (talk) 01:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Special:EditWatchlist and Special:EditWatchlist/raw are both alphabetical and allow red links. You could store a note as a watched page name with a start placing it next to the real page. You can both add red links in Special:EditWatchlist/raw and by navigating to a red link and watching it as normal. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:11, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Those are good ideas. I'm attracted to PrimeHunter's mostly because I know how to do it, <g> and because I already have red links in my watchlist. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Ick! PrimeHunter's solution works, and it isn't costly in small doses, but it definitely won't scale. If we all did this we'd have a big problem, given the watchlist has long had performance problems as it is. "Dummy" rows used solely for annotation make this worse. I wish there was a solution in MediaWiki, but in the meantime there's my really, really crappy User:MusikAnimal/customWatchlists script, if you wish to try it. That allows organizing the watchlist items, so you might have a list called "vandalized pages" or something. I don't really recommend my script to be honest, as it's as cheap as they come, and also means your custom watchlisted pages are publicly viewable. But I thought I'd mention it as an alternative solution should it work for your use case. If I ever make another attempt at this functionality, it will be in MediaWiki proper (phab:T3492)! MusikAnimal talk 17:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Custom watchlists are kinda already possible using external feed readers. I use feeder which has a Chrome/Firefox extension to avoid actually having to use a dedicated feed reader app. It allows creating "folders" which basically act as custom watchlists. Clicking on the "Atom" link in page history sidebar opens it in feeder. – SD0001 (talk) 12:02, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
It's not quite what you asked for, but you may be interested in User:SD0001/W-Ping. Certes (talk) 22:11, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks to all. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Collapsible show/hide not inheriting colors

Would someone who has technical know-how please help me? What I'm trying to do is fix the wiki-code formatting over at Template:Navbox so that the link in the "show/hide" button is white. Here's what's going on (via Frietjes' user talk page):

This is the title
This is the body
This is the title
This is the body
in order to color the link, one would need to get the "color:white" from the style inside of the link for "show/hide".

Could someone other than Frietjes please help me? Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 03:12, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

This is because the HTML structure changed of the show/hide toggles, so the fix we have for this in MediaWiki:Common.js is no longer working. I'll make a fix soon. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:13, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Now at MediaWiki_talk:Common.js#Interface-protected_edit_request_on_29_April_2023TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
I've implemented the request but it does not appear that it is/was doing what you think it is doing? Izno (talk) 15:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
In the first example, I see a brief flash of styled [Show] in bold(?) white against the navy background which then disappears.
Trappist the monk (talk) 16:41, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
The edit to Common.js was not carried out as requested. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Related: Template talk:Navbox#Colour accessibility of show/hide when using non-default background colour and Template talk:Infobox station#"Collapsible" feature not working. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:32, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Extra line break and missing line break at the top of articles

For me, across several browsers (Gecko, WebKit, Blink), there's a problem with the spacing at the very top of articles, and I believe this is recent. On Minnesota Senate, the geographic coordinates overlap with the infobox (yet shouldn't). On Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I see the opposite: there's an extra line break before the first line of the lead. And if I click Steve jobs, for example, I end up at Steve Jobs, and I see a line break before the note: "Redirected from Steve jobs" at the top. The extra line break seems to be caused by the semi-protection topicon. DFlhb (talk) 00:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

When viewing logged out (in Vector 2022), the blue line above the Minnesota Senate text in the infobox actually is in front of the coordinates text for me. Home Lander (talk) 00:56, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Additionally, the text "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" has disappeared for me, on top of experiencing the same line break issues. Youngwii (talk) 13:24, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
I don't see a bug report yet, but some change in this week's deployment appears to have had unintended consequences. I can't imagine why the "From Wikipedia" line has been hidden. I restored it by adding this line to my common.css file:
.vector-feature-zebra-design-disabled #siteSub {
  display: inline;
  margin-top: 0px;
  font-size: 85%;
YMMV. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:37, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
@Jon (WMF). Izno (talk) 15:53, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
I've fixed this in MediaWiki:Vector-2022.css, but it should not have needed that fix; .vector-feature-zebra-design-disabled shouldn't be necessary for #siteSub I do not think? Izno (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Now a task also at phab:T335625. Izno (talk) 16:10, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Many thanks for the fix, cleanly done + major QOL improvement. When you figure out just what caused sitesub to disappear, please share a recap ffr. – SJ + 02:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Yeah, even though the new zebra design hasn't been rolled out yet, someone added that new .vector-feature-zebra-design-disabled class to a bunch of the CSS styles in the page layout, screwing up a bunch of my custom CSS that fixes a wide (no pun intended) variety of excessive whitespace problems with Vector 2022. It's a bit of a Mogura Tataki situation trying to keep up with weekly changes to the Vector 2022 CSS. I feel that I should keep using the skin so that I can participate in reporting errors and problems affecting everyone using the default skin (including all IP readers and editors), but because it still has so many little quirks that need working around and the CSS changes every week, it does feel like a slightly abusive relationship (hint: I am not the abuser). – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:01, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Coordinates and the crappy new skin

Problem with the coords

I have the new skin installed despite it being largely awful, but there is an issue with the position of the coordinates in an article that I have not seen before. The image is a creenshot of the Malindi cult article, where the title of the IB is overlapping the coordinate text. - SchroCat (talk) 09:41, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

See my section above. DFlhb (talk) 09:51, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, I might just "fix" this at some point and see who comes to yell at me for what the WMF forced on us. I'm about done with the continuing reports and just want to have it all out in the open at once. Izno (talk) 15:55, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The fix to #siteSub (aka "From Wikipedia...") above appears to have fixed the coordinate positioning issue for the time being. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:09, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

GAN/FAC notice at the top of articles not visible in Vector

I have the gadget or script (I forget which) installed that shows e.g. "A featured article" or "Currently a good article nominee" at the top of articles, as appropriate. It's stopped working in Vector, but works when I switch to Monobook. Has something happened to stop it working in Vector? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:32, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mike, I've just checked it on the Vector legacy (2010) skin and it appears there, but not on the new skin, so it's a script that doesn't work with the new skin (I have it installed and had noticed it missing already). Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 10:36, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
I've been on the new skin for months, and it only just stopped working (yesterday I think), so I guess something must have changed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:41, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The script is "Display an assessment of an article's quality in its page header (documentation)" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. It still colors the page name for me in Vector 2022 so it works partially. The code in MediaWiki:Gadget-metadata.js and MediaWiki:Gadget-metadata.css hasn't been edited recently but we got a new MediaWiki version yesterday. That's often when things break, maybe by something at mw:MediaWiki 1.41/wmf.6#Vector. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:29, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The site sub has gone missing as in the original of these sections. The WMF is adjusting some things about the skin and this may have been an unintended casualty. Izno (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
This is now working again. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Citations of manuals from online collections?

I frequently cite IBM publications that are organized into bookshelves or other collections. I would like to include a link to the web page for the collection, but |website=[url collection][1] and |work=[url collection] get CS1 error messages. Should there be |website-url= and |work-url= parameters? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 11:43, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

The best venue for this question is Help Talk:CS1. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:19, 30 April 2023 (UTC)


  1. ^ z/OS Network Job Entry (NJE) Format and Protocols (PDF). Version 2 Release 3. IBM. 12 March 2018. SA32-0988-30. Retrieved 30 April 2023. {{cite book}}: |website= ignored (help); External link in |website= (help)

Minor but odd thing

I added two external links in this thread User_talk:Gareth_Griffith-Jones#Happy_birthday,_Gareth!_..._:-D_..., why do they look like wikilinks, no EL-arrow at the end? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

There's an unclosed div further up the page in one of the Merry Christmas sections which has the class "plainlinks", which hides the arrow normally on the end of an external link for all the sections below it. Aidan9382 (talk) 12:09, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:10, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
It seems that every year, somebody sends out several dozen Christmas and/or new year messages where the closing </div> or </table>/|} is missing. Usually the cause is copypasting the code of a template, omitting the whole of a line that ends with <noinclude>. Usually, WP:SUBSTing the template would have avoided this problem. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:58, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
But in this case it wasn't - I traced it to this edit by Gareth Griffith-Jones. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:34, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
... in December 2019
Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) (contribs) 16:05, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Help/Problem with excerpt?

(I hope this is the right place to ask this) I'm trying to use an excerpt of a page that contains a complex table SpaceX Starship development#Second stage prototypes. I've added it here: SpaceX Starship (spacecraft).

However: - the "scrubbed" labels are lost in the excerpt - The "internal links" from the original page (column "Name") do not work.

Any ideas of how to fix those issues? Thanks {{u|Gtoffoletto}}talk 17:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@Gtoffoletto: I fixed the "internal links" with [38]. By "scrubbed" do you mean the text "Scrapped" in the Status column? It's not carried over by {{excerpt}}. The text is made with {{unreleased|Scrapped}} which uses <onlyinclude>...</onlyinclude> and calls {{n/a}} which also uses <onlyinclude>...</onlyinclude>. It appears to not work with {{excerpt}}. The text "Destroyed" is made with {{lost|Destroyed}} which uses <noinclude>...</noinclude> instead and doesn't appear to have problems. onlyinclude can be problematic to work with and I try to avoid it. Can others comment? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:55, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
onlyinclude is handled at Module:Transcluder#L-170 and looks much the same way as when first added in 2019. However, SpaceX Starship development# seems to use includeonly instead. Transcluder doesn't handler includeonly but probably should. It's as simple as removing the opening and closing tags, leaving the text between them intact, i.e. adding something like :gsub("</?includeonly>", ""). The omission is probably my fault – I should have added it with the other two keyword in 2019 – and fixing it now requires a template editor. Certes (talk) 21:27, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
@Certes: It was me who added includeonly code to SpaceX Starship development to fix the "internal links" issue. That works fine in both pages. The problem is when SpaceX Starship development#Second stage prototypes says {{unreleased|Scrapped}}, e.g. in the Mk2 row. {{unreleased}} uses onlyinclude and says "Scrapped" as intended in SpaceX Starship development#Second stage prototypes itself, but it says nothing when {{Excerpt|SpaceX Starship development|Second stage prototypes}} was used here in another page. The problem existed both before and after my unrelated addition of includeonly code in other cells. Note that onlyinclude is not in the source of the page excerpt works on but in a template used there. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:58, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Something very weird is going on. The article has changed now but I've revived the {{excerpt}} call in my sandbox and tried editing Template:Unreleased and previewing my sandbox with it. Nothing makes anything appear at all in the table cell, even removing the onlyinclude tags and replacing the entire content of Template:Unreleased by a simple "Hello from unreleased" message. I don't think this is an include issue. Certain templates are blacklisted from excerpts, and I wonder if a slack regexp is hitting "unreleased": perhaps the '[Uu][Nn][Rr][Ee]?[Ff]?' designed to catch {{unreferenced}} at Module:Excerpt/config#L-50. Certes (talk) 09:22, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
You're right. [Uu] means U or u. Question mark means 0 or 1 occurrence so it matches everything starting with "unr" in some capitalization. I guess it was meant to catch {{UNR}} which redirects to {{Unreferenced}} but it also hits the rest of Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Unr. For example, the last line of Mid central vowel#Features is transcluded from {{Unrounded vowel}} and currently missing in {{excerpt|Mid central vowel|Features}}:
PrimeHunter (talk) 11:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I hadn't found where those regexp fragments are actually used nowadays, but they seem to be inserted in something like {{\s*fragment.-}} which require the template name to begin with the fragment (good plan) but allow more letters afterwards (potential for false positives). In that case, there won't be a syntax for excluding unr without also excluding unreleased, unless we terminate the fragment with %f[%W] or similar (which is the nearest I can get in Lua to PCRE's \b). Certes (talk) 12:19, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
I've just made an edit to the main config here that will continue to match UNRE?F? without over-matching other unrelated terms, which should fix the issue with {{Unreleased}} and {{Unrounded vowel}} described above. Aidan9382 (talk) 12:24, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. The article excerpt in my sandbox now looks correct. Beware that adding $ excludes {{Unref BLP}}, which we probably want to include, but otherwise that looks like the right solution. Certes (talk) 12:39, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks guys! I will try re adding the excerpt to the article ASAP to see if it works correctly now. {{u|Gtoffoletto}}talk 13:00, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
For the record, I think the decision about not bothering to remove includeonly tags was deliberate and correct (though I should have documented it). The tag has no effect on transclusions – its only effect is to remove text within the tag when viewing the transcluded page directly – and transclusion of {{excerpt}} will remove the tag markup in the usual way. Certes (talk) 18:25, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Numerical changes without edit summary should be flagged "r" in watchlist

This is an extremely common form of vandalism and should be automatically flagged for review. Particularly without an edit summary, but more complex pattern matching could work as well to catch more.

I'm not sure if that is a change that needs to be made at Wikipedia or the underlying software (Phabricator) —DIYeditor (talk) 19:21, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

They're certainly a major cause of vandalism. Some, such as dates of birth, are already caught, but most aren't. There are legitimate uses – Smith made one more appearance for United and scored another goal today – but it's far too easy a way to introduce subtle vandalism (and good-faith mistakes) that no one will notice. Certes (talk) 20:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
The "r" flag comes from WP:ORES, which is some kind of crude (by today's standards!) machine learning model. I don't think there are any hard-coded rules. But perhaps with a larger or more sophisticated model, it could learn to flag this sort of thing on its own.
What you probably want instead is an tagging edit filter. Normally I'd say "Go to WP:EFR" but it was already requested last year and kind of forgotten about. ProcrastinatingReader went to through the trouble of patching mw:Extension:AbuseFilter last year to make this sort of thing possible, so let's at least try. See filter 1248 (hist · log). This filter is going to match about 2% of all non-autoconfirmed edits. That much clutter might bother people who review Special:AbuseLog. We'll see. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:38, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look at it. I'm not sure Wikipedia can afford not to do this. Between good faith mistakes and intentional vandalism (I can't imagine what kind of person would think it is funny to deceive others like that) there is no telling how many errors in previously cited numbers have been introduced. The world relies on accuracy in Wikipedia, rightly or wrongly. —DIYeditor (talk) 22:21, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
You can contact the Machine Learning team for feedback on ORES via the methods here: mw:Machine_Learning#Work_with_us. — xaosflux Talk 22:33, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
An edit filter and/or an edit tag may be worth investigating for this. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:45, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
This might be a bit of feature creep, but a similar and very common type of vandalism is changing dates. If a filter is created to tag numerical changes, it would be nice if it also tagged date changes; that is, it noticed changes to a spelled-out month name as well as to a (numerical) year or day of month. Also, perhaps this is already considered, but I want to mention that tagging numerical changes should handle numbers containing commas and decimal points. CodeTalker (talk) 02:44, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

See also discussion at WP:EFN#Set filter 1248 to tag after tripping a rate limit.. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 18:47, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I need help with a major template malfunction

Hi everyone,

Can someone take a look at the List of Intel Core processors article, specifically the "Penryn", "Penryn-3M" (medium-voltage, 45 nm) section of it, and investigate why every single template from that point is malfunctioning, or not working as intended? Is it because there are too many templates on the article and there's a technical limit?

If I open the source editor on the first malfunctioning section, and click preview, the templates display normally, as if there's nothing wrong.

Please note the article is a work-in-progress, I just performed a major merge today, and there are quite a lot of duplicate info that need to be combined, so I hope you don't mind the few rough spots here and there on the article. I placed an {{under construction}} template at the top to let readers and other editors be aware of what's going on. Though, I did not expect this major template malfunction to occur throughout.

Thanks. — AP 499D25 (talk) 13:49, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Is it because there are too many templates on the article and there's a technical limit? Yes. You've exceeded the post-expand include size limit * Pppery * it has begun... 13:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Woah, thanks for the quick response! I kinda had a feeling this was what was going on, as when I went to the article history and browsed previous revisions with less code, but still a considerable amount of code in them, in them a larger percentage of templates were displaying properly like they should.
Looks like I'll need to go back to the merge discussion and discuss a potential splitting up of pages again (page 1 covers 1st to 10th gen or something like that), because of this issue.
Theoretical question: if I were to replace all those templates with wikitables, with the article size being the same or higher afterwards, will those wikitables all display fine? Or are tables also affected by this limitation?
Another question: regarding the post-expand include size thing, if I create a blank page, write down a template (the code of the template itself is 31 bytes big) and it takes up 10 bytes of source code, when that code is executed and the template is "rendered" / transcluded, the actual size of the rendered page is a bit more than 10 bytes, i.e. 31 bytes right? I'm guessing that is what's being meant by "post-expand include size" here.
Regards, — AP 499D25 (talk) 14:16, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Theoretical question: if I were to replace all those templates with wikitables, with the article size being the same or higher afterwards, will those wikitables all display fine -> yes, barring some other problem.
The actual definition of post-expand include size is complicated. A crude estimate is that every time the parser evaluates something wrapped in double curly braces it adds the length of the evaluation to the used-up size. The same rendered content can count multiple times if it's wrapped in multiple sets of double curly braces. So {{1x|abcdef}} uses 6 bytes of PEIS, but {{1x|{{1x|abcdef}}}} uses 12. * Pppery * it has begun... 14:25, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
That makes a lot of sense.
"yes, barring some other problem." What would that other problem be? — AP 499D25 (talk) 14:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
I had no specific problem in mind, just that the only way to be sure that something works is to try it out. * Pppery * it has begun... 15:33, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-18

MediaWiki message delivery 01:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Please help test code to get article plain text with numbered refs and URLs

Please help me test this Python function which, given an article or redirect title, returns the target article as plain text, with numbered references inline and on seperate lines at the end, including any external link URLs in the references. I've tested it on a bunch of articles but am looking for more where it screws up somehow. If you can find some, please reply with the titles and a short description of what went wrong. I am aware of problems with extraneous spaces around quotes and other punctuation, external links being silently dropped (a small price to pay for discarding everything after them...), tables coming out in chunks, and similar issues with CSS-based tree diagrams, but I'd love to read reports of any other problems.

Python code to produce article plain text with numbered references including URLs
from requests import get
from bs4 import BeautifulSoup as bs
from re import sub as resub

def textarticlewithrefs(title):
  # get English Wikipedia article in plain text but with numbered references including link URLs

  resp = get(''
             + title).json()
  if 'error' in resp:
    raise FileNotFoundError(f"'{ title }': { resp['error']['info'] }")

  html = resp['parse']['text']['*'] # get parsed HTML

  if '<div class="redirectMsg"><p>Redirect to:</p>' in html: # recurse redirects
    return textarticlewithrefs(resub(r'.*<ul class="redirectText"><li><a'
        + ' href="/wiki/([^"]+)"[^\0]*$', '\\1', html))

  cleantitle = resp['parse']['title'] # fixes urlencoding and unicode escapes
    [body, refs] = html.split('<ol class="references">')
    #body += refs[refs.find('\n</ol></div>')+12:] # move external links etc. up
    body = html; refs = ''

  b = resub(r'\n<style.*?<table [^\0]*?</table>', '\n', body) # rm boxes
  b = resub(r'<p>', '\n<p>', b) # newlinees between paragraphs
  b = resub(r'(</table>)\n', '\\1 \n', b) # space after amboxes
  b = resub(r'(<span class="mw-headline" id="[^"]*">.+?)(</span>)',
      '\n\n\\1:\\2', b) # put colons after section headings
  b = resub(r'([^>])\n([^<])', '\\1 \\2', b) # merge non-paragraph break
  b = resub(r'<li>', '<li>* ', b) # list item bullets for beautifulsoup
  b = resub(r'(</[ou]l>)', '\\1\n\n<br/>', b) # blank line after lists
  b = resub(r'<img (.*\n)', '<br/>--Image: <img \\1\n<br/>\n', b) # captions
  b = resub(r'(\n.*<br/>--Image: .*\n\n<br/>\n)(\n<p>.*\n)',
      '\\2\n<br/>\n\\1', b) # put images after following paragraph
  b = resub(r'(role="note" class="hatnote.*\n)', '\\1.\n<br/>\n', b) # see/main
  b = resub(r'<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="(http[^"]+)">(.+?)</a>',
      '\\2 [ \\1 ]', b) # extract external links as bracketed urls
  b = bs(b[b.find('\n<p>'):]).get_text(' ') # to text; lead starts with 1st <p>
  b = resub(r'\s*([?.!,):;])', '\\1', b) # various space cleanups
  b = resub(r'  *', ' ', resub(r'\( *', '(', b)) # rm double spaces and after (
  b = resub(r' *\n *', '\n', b) # rm spaces around newlines
  b = resub(r'[ \n](\[\d+])', '\\1', b) # rm spaces before inline refs
  b = resub(r' \[ edit \]\n', '\n', b).strip() # drop edit links
  b = resub(r'\n\n\n+', '\n\n', b) # rm vertical whitespace

  r = refs[:refs.find('\n</ol></div>')+1] # optimistic(?) end of reflist
  r = resub(r'<li id="cite_note.*?-(\d+)">[^\0]*?<span class=' # enumerate...
       + '"reference-text"[^>]*>\n*?([^\0]*?)</span>\n?</li>\n',
      '[\\1] \\2\n', r) # ...the references as numbered seperate lines
  r = resub(r'<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="(http[^"]+)">(.+?)</a>',
      '\\2 [ \\1 ]', r) # extract external links as bracketed urls
  r = bs(r).get_text(' ') # unHTMLify
  r = resub(r'\s([?.!,):;])', '\\1', r) # space cleanups again
  r = resub(r'  *', ' ', '\n' + r) # rm double spaces, add leading newline
  r = resub(r'\n\n+', '\n', r) # rm vertical whitespace
  r = resub(r'(\n\[\d+]) [*\n] ', '\\1 ', r) # multiple source ref tags
  r = resub(r'\n ', '\n     ', r) # indent multiple source ref tags

  return cleantitle + '\n\n' + b + r

Here's some example output from a random article: print(textarticlewithrefs('Thorvald Stauning'))

Thorvald Stauning

Thorvald August Marinus Stauning (Danish: [ˈtsʰɒːˌvælˀ ˈstɑwne̝ŋ]; 26 October 1873 in Copenhagen – 3 May 1942) was the first social democratic Prime Minister of Denmark. He served as Prime Minister from 1924 to 1926 and again from 1929 until his death in 1942.

Under Stauning's leadership, Denmark, like some other Western European countries, developed a social welfare state,[1] and though many of his ambitions for Social Democracy were ultimately thwarted in his lifetime by events beyond his control, his leadership through grave times places Stauning among the most admired of twentieth-century Danish statesmen.

The Stauning Alps, a large mountain range in Greenland, were named after him.[2]

Political career:

Member of the Folketing:
Stauning was trained as a cigar sorter and soon became involved with trade union activity. From 1896 to 1908 he was leader of the Cigar Sorters' Union (part of the Danish Tobacco Workers' Union, in 1898 – 1904 also editor of the magazine Samarbejdet (Co-operation) of the Federation of Trade Unions, and elected Member of Parliament (Folketinget) in 1906. In 1910 he was elected chairman of the Social Democratic Party (Socialdemokratiet), a position he retained for almost thirty years, until 1939. He participated as Minister without Portfolio in the Cabinet of Zahle II from 1916 to 1920. [ citation needed ]

Prime Minister of Denmark:
He was elected to government as prime minister in 1924 for the minority cabinet Cabinet of Thorvald Stauning I which would survive until 1926. His cabinet was considered ground-breaking not only as it was the first purely Social Democratic cabinet, but also because a woman, Nina Bang, was appointed Minister of Education, which attracted some international attention, as she was one of the first female ministers in the world.[3]

From 1929 he led the successful coalition cabinet Cabinet of Thorvald Stauning II with the social liberal Det Radikale Venstre party that would steer Denmark out of the Great Depression, shaping a major political compromise that greatly improved the Danish economy, and also transformed the Social Democratic Party from a class party to a popular party. Under Stauning's leadership Denmark, like the other Western European countries, developed a social welfare state. It is often proposed that the long-lived coalition cabinet actively averted the communist and fascist movements that were sweeping much of Europe from developing a strong following in Denmark. [ citation needed ]

In January 1933, Stauning's government entered into what was then the most extensive settlement yet in Danish politics—the Kanslergade settlement (Danish: Kanslergadeforliget)—with the liberal party Venstre.[4] The settlement, which was named after Stauning's apartment in Kanslergade in Copenhagen, included extensive agricultural subsidies and reforms of the legislation and administration in the social sector.[5]

Stauning holds a record in Danish politics, in having successfully sought re-election no less than three times (1932, 1935 (With the famous slogan " Stauning or Chaos "), 1939). However, an attempt to amend the Constitution failed in 1939, as the turnout in the referendum was insufficient to validate the result. This came as a tremendous blow to Stauning, who seemed to lose his previously sure touch for politics thereafter. He reportedly considered resigning in the wake of the referendum failure, but was persuaded to stay on.[6]

--Image: Stauning addresses the Rigsdagen in Christiansborg Palace on 9 April 1940

Occupation Cabinet:
Stauning's second cabinet lasted until Operation Weserübung, the Nazi occupation of Denmark began on 9 April 1940, when the cabinet was widened to include all political parties, called the Stauning III Cabinet. Contrary to most other governments of the Nazi-invaded countries, King Christian X of Denmark and his government ordered the army and navy to stop fighting, and chose to remain in their country also under the occupation, which is believed to have contributed to the Nazi leaders being more lenient in Denmark than in other countries under Hitler's control. Stauning died in 1942, deeply depressed about the future of social democracy in a Nazi-dominated Europe. [ citation needed ]

Like many other workers' leaders of his generation, such as Hjalmar Branting in Sweden, Stauning was a charismatic leader who played an important role in integrating Danish society after the social changes following the Industrial Revolution and common suffrage. His campaign slogan, "Stauning or Chaos," (Danish: Stauning eller Kaos) resonated in a nation undergoing a period of massive unemployment caused by the economic, social and political turmoil of its neighbors and trading partners, notably Denmark's chief trading partner Germany. The following Great Depression brought Danish unemployment to unprecedented heights. This period of widespread social malaise was fertile ground for leaders who could communicate a confident and coherent vision to the masses. Stauning was such a man for Denmark, and his popularity won the Social Democratic Party 46% of the total votes in the 1935 Folketing election, a figure never again reached by any Danish party. [ citation needed ]

He was given a state funeral in 1942, an honour normally not bestowed on Danish prime ministers. He is buried in Copenhagen's Vestre Cemetery. Although Denmark's relationship with Germany during World War II has been controversial, Stauning's legacy in Denmark remains positive. His popularity in the 1930s acted as a force limiting the growth of other populist parties—most importantly, the Nazi party, which remained politically insignificant. Stauning also played a major role in containing the constitutional Easter Crisis of 1920 where he brokered a deal with the king in which the monarch accepted a reduction of his own role to a merely symbolical one, avoiding any future interference in the functioning of parliamentary democracy. In return, Stauning kept the pro-republican elements of the Social Democratic Party in line, and ensured his party's political support to the continuation of the Danish monarchy. His government was also responsible for laying the foundations to the future Danish welfare state. [ citation needed ]

His grandson Søren Goldmann Stauning is a local politician in Them.[7]

[1] Flora, Peter (16 April 1986). Growth to Limits: The Western European Welfare States Since World War II [ ]. Walter de Gruyter. ISBN 9783110111309. Retrieved 16 April 2018 – via Google Books.
[2] "Catalogue of place names in northern East Greenland" [ ]. Geological Survey of Denmark. Retrieved 18 June 2016.
[3] Skou, Kaare R. (2005). Dansk politik A-Å (in Danish). Aschehoug, pp. 110, 638-639. ISBN 87-11-11652-8.
[4] Skou, p. 367
[5] Mørch, Søren (2002). 24 statsministre (in Danish). Copenhagen: Gyldendal, p. 165. ISBN 87-02-00361-9.
[6] Kaarsted, Tage (1977). De danske ministerier 1929-1953 (in Danish). Copenhagen: Nyt Nordisk Forlag, Arnold Busck, p. 94. ISBN 87-17-05104-5.
[7] "Staunings barnebarn vil være borgmester" [ ]. Politiken. May 14, 2001. Archived from the original [ ] on May 19, 2021. Retrieved January 11, 2023.

I apologize that it's mostly regular expressions, but parsing it formally would be many times more work, and I doubt that could perform much better. The purpose of this is to try to do automated verification with LLMs (see very preliminary proof of concept code here.) Again, please let me know in replies here if you find issues other than those I mentioned above. Thank you! Sandizer (talk) 00:42, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

You do know about mw:Pywikibot right? Izno (talk) 01:21, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
@Izno: yes but I've never used it. Can it do this more easily? Sandizer (talk)