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User talk:Cullen328

I don't live on Cullen Ct, but I like the street sign

If you have any interest in editing Wikipedia by smartphone, I encourage you to read my essay, Smartphone editing. Thank you.

Welcome to my talk page I use the name Cullen328 on Wikipedia, but you can call me "Jim" because that's my real first name. If you want to start a new conversation, please click "New section" at the top of this page. I keep the old comments from July and August of 2009 that follow the "Contents" here, because these friendly words of greeting made me feel welcome when I first started editing Wikipedia.

Contents

The importance of a friendly greeting

Hello and welcome to my talk page. If you want to start a new conversation, please click "New section" at the top of this page. I keep the comments that follow from July and August of 2009 readily visible, because these friendly words of greeting made me feel welcome here on Wikipedia when I first started editing. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:38, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Please offer your thoughts

I would appreciate comments and suggestions on any contributions I make. I am learning.Cullen328 (talk) 03:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Nice work on Jules Eichorn. He's been needing an article for a while.   Will Beback  talk  06:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
If I may suggest, now that you've posted the Eichorn article the draft below might be deleted. It's your talk page to do with as you like, but it's a bit hard to edit around.
As for formatting and pictures, a good way to learn is to look around at other articles to see what you think looks best. It can be helpful to break up long blocks of text into subsections. Perhaps it'd be possible to split the biography into two or three eras. Other than that, the formatting is usually kept fairly plain. As for photos, it's easy to upload them: the trick is in finding photos with appropriate licensing. If you have any personal photos then those'd be fine. There are might be pictures of the peaks he did first ascents on in the Wikicommons. File:Cathedral Peak.png is a so-so pic of Eichorn Pinnacle.
As before, feel free to ask if you have any questions. There are several editors here who are mountaineers or just admirers of the Sierra, so you're in good company.   Will Beback  talk  21:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
PS: Many editors create "sandbox" pages for drafting articles. For example, User talk:Cullen328/Sandbox.   Will Beback  talk  00:17, 1 August 2009


Your climber biographies

Hey Jim, just wanted to say welcome and thanks for your contributions to the Sierra Nevada climbing history articles. You're filling a niche that's been missing here, I look forward to working with you. --Justin (talk) 11:54, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll second that. Nice work on Allen Steck and welcome to Wikipedia. I don't know who you are planning to write up next but if your taking requests I think Peter Croft (climber) could really use a page. If you ever have any questions please ask. Thanks again for your great additions.--OMCV (talk) 02:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Justin and OMCV. I am beginning work on Tom Frost and Glen Dawson. Comments on Norman Clyde would be welcomed. I will defintely read up on Peter Croft, OMCV. I am still "learning the ropes" in Wikipedia, to use a climbing analogy, and have all sorts of things in mind. My biggest challenge right now is getting permission to use images. My next biggest challenge is hiking to the top of Mt. Whitney with my wife in ten days - she's never been above 12,000 feet except for the train ride up Pikes Peak. As she's 56 and developing arthritis in her toes, it will be an accomplishment if she (and I) complete the Class 1 feat. Jim Heaphy (talk) 02:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Debra and I made it to the summit of Mt. Whitney at 2:20 PM on Friday, September 11. Jim Heaphy (talk) 00:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

2009 Archive

2010 Archive

2011 Archive

2012 Archive (first six months)

ReferencesEdit

WikiCake!Edit

Adding cover imagesEdit

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your response. I fully agree with your rationale - but how do I "just do it"? I've gone to one of the image pages and tried to update the summary and licensing info (adapted from another album page from the same band), and was greeted with a rapid deletion message. The code I used was as follows:

SummaryEdit

Media data and Non-free use rationale
Description Far Skies Deep Time cover
Author or
copyright owner
Big Big Train
Source (WP:NFCC#4) http://www.bigbigtrain.com/pics/covers/fsdt.jpg
Use in article (WP:NFCC#7) Far Skies Deep Time
Purpose of use in article (WP:NFCC#8) to serve as the primary means of visual identification at the top of the article dedicated to the work in question.
Not replaceable with
free media because
(WP:NFCC#1)
n.a.
Minimal use (WP:NFCC#3) Official album cover artwork from the artist's website
Respect for
commercial opportunities
(WP:NFCC#2)
n.a.
Fair useFair use of copyrighted material in the context of Far Skies Deep Time//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328

As your optional poll has closed....Edit

2016 Art And Feminism Wikipedia Editathon @ CCAEdit

You are invited! - Saturday, March 5 - Wikipedia:Meetup/San Francisco/ArtandFeminism 2016
Please join us at the California College of the Arts' Simpson Library on Saturday March 5, 2016,
for an event aimed at collaboratively expanding Wikipedia articles covering Art and Feminism, and the biographies of women artists!

--Circa73 (talk)

Bay Area WikiSalon series kickoff, April 27Edit

Please join us in San Francisco!
 
Panel discussion at a recent Wikipedia & Journalism event.

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts in the San Francisco Bay Area will gather to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. We have two brief presentations lined up for our kickoff event in downtown San Francisco:

  • The Nueva Upper School recently hosted the first ever high school Wikipedia edit-a-thon. We will hear what interests them about Wikipedia, what they have learned so far, and what they hope to achieve.
  • Photojournalist Kris Schreier Lyseggen, author of The Women of San Quentin: The Soul Murder of Transgender Women in Male Prisons, will tell us about her work and how she researched the topic.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. We will have beverages and light snacks.

Please note: You must register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on this point.

For further details, see here: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, April 2016

We hope to see you -- and until then, happy editing! - Pete, Ben & Wayne

Interview invitation from a Wikipedia researcher in University of MinnesotaEdit

Hello Cullen328,

I am Bowen Yu, a Ph.D. student from GroupLens Research at the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities. Currently, we are undertaking a study about turnover (editors leaving and joining) in WikiProjects within Wikipedia. We are trying to understand the effects of member turnovers in the WikiProject group, in terms of the group performance and member interaction, with a purpose of learning how to build successful online communities in future. More details about our project can be found on this meta-wiki page.

I notice you are active in activities related to project page and project talk page, so I wonder if I could invite you for an interview if you are interested in our study and willing to share your experience with us. The interview will be about 30 - 45 minutes via phone, Skype or Google Hangout. You will receive a $10 gift card as compensation afterwards.

Please reach me at bowen@cs.umn.edu if you are interested or have any questions.

Thank you,

Bowen

Hello, Cullen328. You have new messages at Bobo.03's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Holiday cardEdit

 
Wishing you a Charlie Russell Christmas,
Cullen328!
"Here's hoping that the worst end of your trail is behind you
That Dad Time be your friend from here to the end
And sickness nor sorrow don't find you."
—C.M. Russell, Christmas greeting 1926.
Montanabw(talk) 23 December 2016 (UTC)

2017 Art And Feminism Wikipedia Editathon @ CCAEdit

You are invited! - Friday, March 10 - SF CCA ArtAndFeminism 2017
Please join us at the California College of the Arts'
Simpson Library
on Friday March 10, 2017, for
an event aimed at collaboratively expanding Wikipedia articles covering Art and Feminism, and the biographies of women artists!

--Jscarboro (talk)

Page LinkEdit

I just don't get itEdit

Hello, Cullen328. You have new messages at Purplebackpack89's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Explaining my edits about Jeff SessionsEdit

Hi, I was looking at some articles about Jeff Sessions after Trump fired him. I was surprised to see that he was labeled as a Republican. I had always thought Jeff Sessions was a Democrat. I did some more research to make sure I was correct. Everything that I saw verified what I had thought. Just look at his record as Attorney General. As Attorney General he has performed his job the way a Democrat would, which is the reason Trump dislikes him and Democrats oppose Trump's firing of him. If he was a Republican, then why would he have recused himself from the Russia case? If Jeff Sessions was a Republican, he would have done everything he could as Attorney General to protect Trump, he would not have undermined him. Looking at the media, the Democrats are the ones protesting his firing! They know that Sessions is their guy. If he were a Republican they wouldn't care. The Republicans are the ones defending Trump's decision to fire him! Wouldn't this all be a bit weird if Sessions was a Republican?

So, using the information I had, I decided to edit the articles about him to stop this confusion from spreading. And I made a mistake here. I should have discussed this on the talk page first and had my proposed edits approved by you guys. I understand why you thought I was vandalizing, and I understand why you didn't want to hear me out at the time. I understand why you blocked me. Now that that stuff has passed, I hope that we can reach an agreement here. Why do you think Jeff Sessions is a Republican? I just want us to hear each other out so that together we can make the correct decision on what his party affiliation should be labeled as. Who knows, maybe I could change my mind? Maybe you could? I just want to have the discussion. Thanks. 67.181.231.129 (talk) 03:38, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. I have already warned you about this matter on your talk page. Let me spell it out bluntly:
1 - Acceptable Wikipedia articles summarize what reliable published sources say.
2 - All reliable sources report that Sessions is a Republican.
3 - The strange musings of an anonymous IP editor on Wikipedia are of no value in shaping the content of our encyclopedia articles.
4 - Therefore, our biography of Jeff Sessions will continue to state that he is a Republican, at least until the day comes that he quits that party in public.
You will be blocked if you persist with disruptive editing. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:12, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I understand that some sources say Sessions is Republican, but going by his history as Attorney General, is there any real evidence that proves this? Shouldn't we think for ourselves rather than blindly believing what "credible sources" say? 67.181.231.129 (talk) 04:39, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

No, all reliable sources report that Sessions is a Republican. Wikipedia summarizes what reliable sources say. Period. End of story. Non-negotiable. Abandon this quest now. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:47, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I understand that, but is there any actual evidence of it based off his record? I feel that Wikipedia is just blindly listening to these "sources" without actually looking at the facts. Stuff like this makes me worried Wikipedia is just going to become a propaganda outlet for whatever crap these "sources" want to put out. If you want me to have any confidence in Wikipedia and how you guys edit things, please give me some sort of argument that is a Republican beyond just "these 'sources say he is." Show me that you aren't just blindly following what these "sources" say. 67.181.231.129 (talk) 05:26, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

We summarize what reliable sources say. That is our narrowly defined mission. There are countless other social media websites and blogging platforms where you can expound your original theories. Wikipedia is not one of them. So, consider this your final warning. Stop it now. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
You may have thought he was a Democrat, though that wouldn't be based on any kind of evidence and it's wrong. Ask any Alabamian, if you don't trust the sources. Or ask him. If you lose confidence in Wikipedia because of something you, and only you, thinks, we can handle that, though it would be Very Sad. Drmies (talk) 06:23, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't think we will ever agree on this, so how about we just comprise and remove any mention of his party affiliation from the articles about him? 67.181.231.129 (talk) 06:42, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Look, I understand why you guys don't want to change Jeff Session's party affiliation on his articles. I have given up that quest. I am sorry that I was stubborn about it. However, I do think that because there is doubt about his party affiliation at all, that something needs to be done. After all, stating a theory as a fact is against Wikipedia rules. I have 2 ideas for how we can fix this issue in a way that makes us all happy.

1: Remove any mention of his party. This way there won't be any arguments and we know that we won't get the fact wrong. After all, it is impossible to be wrong about his party affiliation if we don't include it in the first place.

2: Keep his Republican affiliation, but make make clear on the articles that it is just a theory and has been disputed.

I would be fine with either one of these changes. I sencerely hope that we can fix this in a way that is the best for Wikipedia. Thank you for hearing me out. 67.181.231.129 (talk) 03:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Doria RaglandEdit

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Doria Ragland. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thank you for giving me a second chance. I was formerly Frogger48 but I decieded to change my username. I did this because I wanted to start over from the past. I promise to be more careful and follow Wikipedia's rules and Guidelines better and follow them closely. ABCD5798 (talk) 19:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, ABCD5798. I wish you well. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 22:47, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter messageEdit

 Hello, Cullen328. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Sérgio MoroEdit

Please check: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=S%C3%A9rgio_Moro&action=history

The section being removed is terribly biased as it ignores all of Moro's highly popular and praised merits in leading the Operation Car Wash, even ignores his most famous case in which he convicted Lula, and instead focuses entirely on leftist rhetoric and on disqualifying him over criticism that comes exclusively from biased editorials. I've got my account blocked because of this so could you please give a throughout check? The section they want to keep clearly violate NPOV and doesn't give its due weight. Besides, it's not even in the Portuguese Wikipedia. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.181.144.250 (talk) 02:18, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, Marchjuly. Blocked editor, get yourself unblocked and then we can discuss content issues. That's how things work here. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:52, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Not sure if it's also necessary to go around and removing the various threads they have started at WP:BLPN, WP:RSN, etc. to try and argue their position. Bascially, the editor has just been reposting what they posted above on various pages using various IPs like 49.180.99.171, 49.195.121.29, etc. They all seem to be connected to SacredGeometry333, which also has been tagged as a sock. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:59, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

🤞🏻Edit

I may have bitten off more than I can chew (pun intended). I'm still holding the towel, and I even elaborated on sources at the TP so now it's wait and see if the info is absorbed or ignored. If the latter, then we may be looking at WP:CIR. Thank you for keeping an eye on it. Atsme✍🏻📧 04:45, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Hello Atsme. It was very kind of you to offer to mentor that editor and time will tell us whether or not that offer bears fruit. This editor clearly doesn't understand what we mean by a reliable source but learning is always possible. I also appreciate your topic expertise. I own and love a dog but claim no special knowledge about things canine since he is our first dog. I do appreciate you stopping by. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:59, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Street name for John SurteesEdit

Hi Cullen328, thanks for responding to my question in the teahouse. Concerning the street named after John Surtees you asked how I knew it was the race driver John Surtees. Well this particular neighborhood has a group of streets in one specific area named after numerous racing drivers. This is because the neighborhood is in close proximity to the old location of Riverside International Raceway. It's nearby my home and I've seen it many times, although I understand that this alone is 'original research', hence my question of whether an image of a map of the neighborhood would satisfy WP standards as a citation. Here's a map.[1] Like I said, I'm a rookie and I'm trying to do things properly. :)

Cheers Wikimikey423 07:27, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Wikimikey423. I consider it highly likely that this street is named after Surtees. But all content we add must be verifiable. So, either find a reliable source that verifies that the street is named after him, or leave it out. It is original research that simply doesn't belong on Wikipedia at least until it can be verified. And even it can be verified, how encyclopedic is it? There are golf course neighborhoods all over the country that have streets named after famous courses. Do you think that our article The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews ought to have a list of every town that has a "Saint Andrews Place" near a golf course? I don't think so. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Agreed Wikimikey423 18:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) Hi Wikimikey423. The map is really of no use because there's no clear connection between John Surtees the race car driver and the street name. Something such as this (fourth paragraph from the bottom) might be OK. The website Veloce Today seems to be cited in other Wikipedia articles, so it might qualify as a reliable source for Wikipedia purposes in this context. Still it would be better to find a something like a major newspaper (perhaps something like this article but only about the racers), an established magazine, or a book published by a reputable publisher that more specifically connects Surtees to the street. Since things tend to be named after a person as an honor, there's usually a bit publicity associated with the event. So, perhaps there's something in some an old newspaper archive or in a library book about the city which can be used to better verify the origin of the name. Maybe there's an old article somewhere showing Surtees at a dedication ceremony or something. Finally, Jim's point about WP:NOTEVERYTHING is quite important. There are lots of verifiable facts about subjects which can be added to their respective Wikipedia articles, but they're not because they not considered encyclopedically relevant for Wikipedia's purposes. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:57, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Agreed Wikimikey423 18:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
This is not exactly a major street according to the map link. It is a subdivision court maybe a couple hundred feet long with six houses on it. My house is on a very similar suburban court named after a medieval Italian composer. I am not going to try to add my street to his biography. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:05, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Agreed Wikimikey423 18:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
@Wikimikey423: I'm going to agree with Jim here. Technically it's a "court", so it's definitely not a main road of any kind. Perhaps Surtees really felt honored by it being named after him and if that can be established through citations to reliable sources, then maybe a consensus to add it to the article about him can be established on its talk page; otherwise, the only possible place it might have encyclopedic relevance for Wikipedia's purposes would be in an article "Streets in Moreno Valley" or an article about Surtees Ct. itself. See Category:Streets in the United States by city for some examples of articles about streets, but I think it would be quite a stretch to even write a stub about a "court". -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:26, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Agreed Wikimikey423 18:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you.Edit

  The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
I apologize if I was in any way rude to you. Thank you for the constructive criticism and sorry if my reply was misunderstood, poorly worded, objectively rude, or anything else like that. Sincerely, Shashi Sushila Murray, (message me) 03:15, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Shashi Sushila Murray. You were not rude in any way. We expressed and exchanged our views in a frank and informative way, and I was able to learn a bit more about your goals through our conversation and by reading your user page. I know that you are focused on this project's shortcomings but I hope that over time, you will also come to appreciate our successes and the generally positive and useful resource that Wikipedia is, despite its flaws. I bid you peace. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:24, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Antisemitism in the UK Labour PartyEdit

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

ARBCOM votingEdit

Hi Cullen, ARBCOM needs someone like you the deadline for nomination is 3rd December only few slots are left and I think an admin is best for ARBCOM so would you please please consider voting at the ARBCOM. Please take it under consideration.Denim11 (talk) 14:39, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @Denim11: A great idea :) but it's too late this year. Per WP:ACE2018, nominations closed Tuesday 23:59 on 13 November; it's voting for them that ends on 3 Dmr. Incidentally, see this section above... ——SerialNumber54129 15:12, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

But the voting is open till 3rd December it is written there and I also saw that many people have voted today so I think Cullen can vote.Denim11 (talk) 15:47, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Denim11, I will vote before the deadline. I am still studying the candidates. Thank you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 15:57, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

You've got mail.Edit

 
Hello, Cullen328. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Deletion discussion for Chiyo MiyakoEdit

An editor has started a deletion nomination for Chiyo Miyako. Because you were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion discussion. 96.253.25.35 (talk) 12:28, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

New Skylab controversy RfC proposalEdit

Hi! I have drafted another RfC at Talk:Skylab_controversy#New_RfC_proposal. Please comment on how best to get appropriate input from the Wikipedia editor community. -- ke4roh (talk) 14:44, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Is there any predraft Vetting?Edit

Is there a place on WP where one can have an idea vetted before even starting a draft?
I have a draft: Draft:John_Ferrar_(Deputy_Treasurer,_Virginia_Company), I have subsequently learned that there is a biography of him already published https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/ferrar-john-1588-1657, it has everything and more, with more and better references. So publishing this article would be redundant, on the internet, but not in wiki, and I can’t think of anyway to reword it, either. The big difference between the two is John Ferrar’s role he played, in the founding of America. What intrigues me is that researching his father, Nicholas Ferrar the elder, I learned that he was financing privateers who raided ships of Spain, and was an associate of the likes of Sir Walter Raleigh:, Francis Drake and John Hawkins.
Pages 22-23 here https://archive.org/details/lifenicholasferr00skipuoft/page/22, I already knew that Nicholas Ferrar was Master of the Skinners Company.
Full disclosure I am a 2nd Cousin 11 times removed, and thus according to some a COI, as he is a relative, but who isn’t, even the Plantagents and William the Conqueror are great grandfathers a distinctionI share with millions, maybe hundreds of millions.

This John Ferrar is indeed notable, and played an important role in the Virginia Company, the result of which was the establishment of the Virginia Colony, and that resulted in the representative form of government of the U.S.A There is an article on his brother Nicholas, whose actual role was minor as compared to John’s. John was a friend of Charles I, and even gave him refuge, when pursued by the Parliamentarians.. As I see it, these personages are as notable and important to the History of America as Nicholas Ferrar the Younger, who has his own article. Even the father Nicholas the elder about whom much is not known, save that he was of Yorkshire, at least Nicholas the elder deserves a mention in his sons biography. I don’t see any way of pursuing this project without engaging in some form of plagiarism, being a family historian or a COI Do you?Oldperson (talk) 17:28, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @Oldperson: He certainly was notable; the Virginia Company was effectively the Halliburton of its day. And, yes, the Hist. of Parlt Oline is an excellent source; for an example of articles structured around it but still using summary style and interspersing other sources in Wikipedia's voice, see Humphrey Stafford (died 1442) or Humphrey Stafford (died 1413). Your chap Ferrar also has an excellent entry at the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, [1]. There's quite a bit on both father on son in the literature, and there's a few nice things available on JSTOR too [2]. —safe road to you, Cullen. ——SerialNumber54129 20:51, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
@Serial Number 54129:Thank you I know he was notable, my problem is writing an article without plagarising.I will try if only for the practice. But my problem at the moment, is the reference to Parliament online. Somehow I 've got an empty title and I can't see it, don't know how to fix it. And I'm obsessed with getting it right and learning.Can you help me with that please. ThanksOldperson (talk) 21:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
I'll get back to you tomorrow Oldperson, sometime GMT, if that's OK. ——SerialNumber54129 22:04, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
@Serial Number 54129: Thanks but it is fixed nowOldperson (talk) 22:22, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Oldperson. I am working now and have a long drive home in the rain later. I will think about your questions and will respond tonight, California time. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:30, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Oldperson, I am having trouble figuring out why you are concerned about plagiarism. Simply do not plagiarize. Assemble the reliable sources that devote significant coverage to this obviously notable person, and summarize what those sources say in your own originally written words. Is that so difficult? That is precisely what we do all the time as Wikipedia editors. Just do it, as an athletic shoe company says.
Members of Parliament and members of national, state and provincial legislatures worldwide have a very strong presumption of notability, per WP:POLITICIAN. You should expect no opposition to this article as long as you write it properly.
As for your original question about "pre-draft vetting", then I guess that the answer is to ask advice from experienced editors, as you have done here. You could just move your draft into mainspace and deal with the New Page Patrollers and the regulars at Articles for Deletion, since the AFC process is optional not mandatory. AFC constitutes "pre-article vetting" for those who choose it, and we have no formal procedure for pre-vetting the pre-vetting. That could lead to some ridiculous extremes.
I have written about 100 new articles and have never once submitted one of my drafts for review by AFC although I asked for review by some trusted editors of one article where I had a mild conflict of interest. Not one of my articles has ever been deleted. I write them carefully and move them to main space myself when I am confident that they are ready for the encyclopedia. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:20, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Draft talk:Joan Kelley WalkerEdit

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Draft talk:Joan Kelley Walker. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2018Edit

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2018).

  Administrator changes

  Al Ameer sonRandykittySpartaz
  BosonDaniel J. LeivickEfeEsanchez7587Fred BauderGarzoMartijn HoekstraOrangemike

  Interface administrator changes

 Deryck Chan

  Guideline and policy news

  • Following a request for comment, the Mediation Committee is now closed and will no longer be accepting case requests.
  • A request for comment is in progress to determine whether members of the Bot Approvals Group should satisfy activity requirements in order to remain in that role.
  • A request for comment is in progress regarding whether to change the administrator inactivity policy, such that administrators "who have made no logged administrative actions for at least 12 months may be desysopped". Currently, the policy states that administrators "who have made neither edits nor administrative actions for at least 12 months may be desysopped".
  • A proposal has been made to temporarily restrict editing of the Main Page to interface administrators in order to mitigate the impact of compromised accounts.

  Technical news

  Arbitration

  Miscellaneous

  • In late November, an attacker compromised multiple accounts, including at least four administrator accounts, and used them to vandalize Wikipedia. If you have ever used your current password on any other website, you should change it immediately. Sharing the same password across multiple websites makes your account vulnerable, especially if your password was used on a website that suffered a data breach. As these incidents have shown, these concerns are not pure fantasies.
  • Wikipedia policy requires administrators to have strong passwords. To further reinforce security, administrators should also consider enabling two-factor authentication. A committed identity can be used to verify that you are the true account owner in the event that your account is compromised and/or you are unable to log in.

  Obituaries


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:36, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Please help regarding editing a pageEdit

I have been trying to update the page Randeep Hooda . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randeep_Hooda

But it is getting reverted back to old edits. The information cited on the page are all more than 2 years old. And they need updation now. Please guide me. Thanks and regards. Randeepupdates (talk) 12:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

You twice added unreferenced information about his height and were reverted, Randeepupdates. Read conflict of interest and verifiability. Also read Referencing for beginners. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 15:47, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Infobox familyEdit

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Infobox family. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

QuestionEdit

Is this [[3]] kind of thing ok? Regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 07:14, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Hamster Sandwich. You were, of course, correct to revert the spam link. So, I guess you were asking about the message about hard boiled eggs that you left on the IP's talk page. Well, I am not sure that it is worth the time to even comment there when this IP address has only made a single edit. At first, I thought that your comment was an allusion to Cool Hand Luke which I saw decades ago, but then I refreshed my memory and learned that the character played by Paul Newman tried to eat 50 hard boiled eggs, obviously much more than a dozen. So, I am a bit mystified by your message to the IP, though I see nothing overtly wrong with it. I love hard boiled eggs, by the way, and deviled eggs even more. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:36, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
My theory: Wikipedia can't always be Stick Stick Stick. Sometimes there has to be a carrot too. I told an IP earlier that if they could offer a proper citation I'd stand on my head for an hour. Hamster Sandwich (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
I am all in favor of positive reinforcement, such as thanking productive editors for their work. Why would it be a "carrot" to another editor if you eat eggs or stand on your head, Hamster Sandwich? Are you planning to make videos of these feats of yours to post on various user talk pages? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:56, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
I am afraid that you have taken these promises far too literally. I have no reasonable expectation that these reverted edits will ever be backed by some kind of citation. Nor should you for that matter! I make empty promises to answer empty content additions. Merely for the sake of providing some levity for the editors who will almost certainly visit that page in the future to warn against nonsense edits to the actual 'pedia. Hamster Sandwich (talk) 08:03, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps you have also taken my responses far too literally. A bit of levity is fine among established editors but may well go over the head of some newbies, or may be rewarding to those with trollish motivations, and that is counterproductive, Hamster Sandwich. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:21, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
That is a very good point that I had not considered; however it may afford an opportunity to turn a negligible editor into a productive one through... what? Affability? I'm not sure. I'll use the technique more sparingly, only for comments where I feel it might be more helpful than harmful. One lives in hope. Regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 08:32, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Your underlying motivation is correct and fully consistent with WP:AGF. If you try something and it motivates a spammer to abandon promotionalism and become a highly productive generalist editor, then your technique should be widely used by experienced editors in the future, and you should be showered with barnstars. I am a welcoming editor, in general, but do not readily recall a case of a spammer going straight, though it has probably happened once or twice. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:51, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Asking for a peer review, here [4], Regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 23:33, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

  • Things seemed to work out fine, and the new editor is awaiting his review. I didn't want to completely obliterate their work, so I left enough meat on the bone for other editors to polish it up. I am looking for work. Point at something, will you? Best regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 06:17, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello Hamster Sandwich. The Teahouse and the Help desk are great places to be productive, useful and informative, especially to newer editors who really need help. Another place where experienced editors can play a positive role is the Reliable sources/Noticeboard. If you want content suggestions, let me know. But you have been around long enough that you can figure out useful things to do on your own. There is always Wikipedia:Community portal after all. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:04, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for pointing those options out... I am really only proficient in a couple narrow areas. One is copy editing, and the other is displaying some patience with newbs and marginal types (if they are not crackpots). One thing where I have no proficiency is finding enough to do. I am leaning towards page reviews where I can do cleanup work on drafts pending, things like that. Then I can cherry pick topics (because I don't want to spend time on articles where the subject is of no interest too me.) I hope you don't mind these intrusions, but you have been an outstanding example to follow as I wend my way back into the intricacies of WP (I'm half kidding, and it's about the WP part... This place ain't exactly "Rocket science." Thanks again for the suggestions. Keep them coming if you think of anything else for me.. Best regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 13:10, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Hamster Sandwich, if you're interested in copy editing, maybe take a look at the guild of copy editors or find an article in Category:All articles needing copy edit to work on? Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, @Galobtter, I just now went to the community portal, and it was a revelation. Can't wait to dive in later today. I will also explore your suggestion about the GoCE. Looking forward to seeing what that is about. Thank you noble editors for your help! Hamster Sandwich (talk) 13:25, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Tyreek BurrellEdit

Hey there... I dont know how much investigating you ad time to do on the refs; I read through them, and as far as I could see the BLP violation on the Tyreek article looks..well..really bad. Not a single ref mentions Tyreek at all, much less states he was involved in any way..the lady concerned may not even be his sister- nothing in the refs says she is! There have been IPs trying to get that stuff out for months, and editors have just been blindly reverting..I find this well..pretty awful..something like that could ruin this guy. Curdle (talk) 17:18, 9 December 2018 (UTC) Oops..I see its been noted on the talkpage- sorry to bother you. It just Curdle (talk) 17:23, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

I just read all of those references and your assessment is 100% correct. Thank you, Curdle. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:24, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
It is his sister, but the extend of his involvement per sources is one tweet. Definitely a quite bad situation. Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:26, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

EclipsesEdit

I saw your name at Wikipedia:WikiProject Eclipses. Are you planning to watch the July 2 eclipse? 28bytes (talk) 05:09, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, 28bytes. It is possible that my family might go to Chile. My wife and I saw the Solar eclipse of May 20, 2012 in Redding, California. That was an annular eclipse. We went with my son and his pregnant partner to the spectacular Solar eclipse of August 21, 2017 in Madras, Oregon. We had a wonderful time at both, and perfect weather and great company both times. My son became an instant enthusiast and I gave him my halfway decent telescope. At that time, we were all gung ho for Chile but haven't done anything about it. I will see my son tomorrow and discuss it. We would have to travel with my granddaughter, who will be about 20 months old. Exciting! Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:19, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Very cool. I watched the 2017 eclipse from South Carolina with my extended family and was just astounded at how beautiful it was. I'm really, really tempted to go down to La Serena to see it in 2019 but I haven't bitten the bullet yet. Not being a fluent Spanish speaker intimidates me a bit. 28bytes (talk) 06:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
I wouldn't worry too much about that, 28bytes. Cumulatively, I have spent about three months in Spanish speaking countries, and do not speak the language though I know a lot of phrases. I have always had wonderful times on those trips. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:45, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
It's tempting, it really is. Let me know if you decide to go, it might push me off the fence to know there'll at least be another American there! 28bytes (talk) 06:47, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
There will be thousands of Americans there, I guarantee it, 28bytes. Go whether or not I go. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:51, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello again, 28bytes. I was a little bit confused about eclipses in Chile, since there are two about 17 months apart. We may go to the Solar eclipse of December 14, 2020, which is during their summer and happens to fall on my son's birthday. Also, my granddaughter will be three years old and will appreciate it much more. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:12, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Ah, I had forgotten that Chile gets two in short order. Yes, three should be a good age; my boy was four when he saw last year's eclipse and he loved it. He's already looking forward to the 2024 one which will go right over our house. 28bytes (talk) 03:32, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Happy new year JimEdit

  Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019!

Hi Cullen328, Sending you a warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019 and may this new year bring you joy and laughter. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 15:49, 13 December 2018 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/BiographyEdit

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

What constitutes "strong national ties"?Edit

What is your interpretation of "strong national ties" with regard to date formats in articles?

I ask that because I changed four dates in the Bob Readick, converting them to American style on the basis that Readick was born in the United States and worked in the U.S.A. Another editor reverted the dates to the original format. When I asked about the reversion on that editor's talk page, the reply included "And simply being an American does not constitute 'strong national ties.'" The reply also cited MOS:DATEVAR in support of keeping the format originally used.

I am still learning about Wikipedia's style and policies after almost five years, so I will appreciate your perspective on this topic. Eddie Blick (talk) 20:00, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

  • (talk page watcher) I've restored the American date style, which is obviously the norm for biographies of Americans. I've also put the article on my watchlist. Softlavender (talk) 20:18, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Of course Bob Readick had "strong national ties" to the U.S. since there is nothing in that article indicating that he lived or worked in any other country. In my opinion, the other editor's argument is without merit, Teblick. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:34, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Softlavender and Cullen328! I appreciate the feedback. I was hoping that I had not misunderstood Wikpedia style that badly. Eddie Blick (talk) 20:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

In the name of transparency...Edit

My quite harsh commentary about what I feel are your excessive and poorly documented administrative actions taken against Wikid77 appears at WPO in the thread "Wikid77 blocked for racist comments." best regards, —tim /// Carrite (talk) 08:33, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the notification, Carrite. I choose not to engage with you on that Wikipedia criticism website that you like so much, but I will respond to any specific questions that you or any other editor in good standing have here on Wikipedia, at any appropriate venue. In full awareness that my decision might be controversial, I immediately asked for a community review of my block at AN. I will respect whatever consensus comes out of that discussion, and have deliberately chosen not to participate further in that debate, to allow independent voices to participate unimpeded. If by consensus, the community decides that my action was excessive, then I will accept that consensus and consider myself duly chastised. I readily admit that I am not strong on bureaucratic procedures, so if you can assist me in dotting the I's and crossing the T's, and correcting my "poorly documented administrative actions", then I would appreciate that. Please forgive me for inappropriate use of apostrophes, if I am guilty of that infraction as well. In conclusion, I am doing my level best to try to improve the editing environment here on Wikipedia, in what I believe to be a conservative and cautious way. Obviously, I am using the word conservative narrowly in this context, and that word does not refer to contemporary American politics. Thanks, as always, for your feedback. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 09:38, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Well, let me bring over my main criticism here then, since I would not want you to sully your sensibilities consorting with individuals hostile to Wikipedia at a nefarious off-wiki message board...
1. You claim to be a great believer in on-Wiki transparency, yet your original block of Wikid in November includes no link to the offense which got you to place a 48-hour block on him, either in the block log, or on his talk page. Instead, you linked to a long essay on tendentious editing and how to change it or stop it. You subsequently claim as part of your indefinite block that you had previously warned him against posting racist comments. What was the original comment? Where did you make these alleged warnings to him against making such comments?
2. Similarly, you have provided no concrete links to the specific offenses by Wikid on the Jimmy Wales talk page which drew your ire: either as part of the block log, or on Wikid's user talk page, or in the AN thread which you yourself started to (apparently) fan the embers in justification of your action — a thread which, predictably, had the effect of escalating the penalty for the still-unspecified offense. Where is the link to those comments that drew your ire? Did you try to warn him (apparently for a first time) on his talk page or just jump straight to the block button?
3. Do you feel that editors at Wikipedia must have righteous, ideologically correct takes on every issue in order to participate at Wikipedia?
That's a good start. My views about Wikid's take on the racial history of the United States are available at WPO, I don't want to be accused of making personal attacks here, but suffice it to say that nothing I have to say about your seemingly overwrought administrative style has anything to do with personal sympathy with his own twisted views. As you are aware. Carrite (talk) 17:17, 15 December 2018 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) What people believe and what they do about it in the privacy of their own estate is their business, not mine. But when they do it in the public areas that myself and my six year old son also have to occupy, then it becomes my business. All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people not to act. Blocking individuals for using hate words (outside of the disscussion of those terms academically) is an appropriate response to an evil behavior. John from Idegon (talk) 17:46, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
I'm still looking for the first diff that I requested above. Glad you have such moral certitude about this, pat yourself on the back again and again. Carrite (talk) 02:23, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello Carrite. My original warning was in response to a thread called Battle for freedom of speech re Roseanne during which Wikid77 wrote " In fact to white Americans, the word "nigger" had come to mean a "hardworking servant" rather than an obstinate negro, and a white man might have said about mowing and trimming hedges, "I'll be a yard nigger all morning today" with zero reference to black skin, just the work. Since the "N-word" has been banned, other words have been invented to refer to black people who are organizing against whites (say no more)."
I gave the warning at Wikid77's talk page here, where I wrote "The next time you spout racist nonsense on Wikipedia, you will be blocked indefinitely. Conduct yourself accordingly." and also "This is a reminder of established policy and a formal warning: What Wikipedia is not says that "Wikipedia is free and open, but restricts both freedom and openness where they interfere with creating an encyclopedia. Accordingly, Wikipedia is not a forum for unregulated free speech." You are warned to avoid treating Wikipedia as a forum for your personal pet theories about racism and slavery and the meaning of racial slurs. Your comments have been disruptive and tendentious. Any more forum type commentary will lead to a block."
My block on November 21 resulted from a thread called Horrors of a POV-fork page, where Wikid77 wrote "Well, check the facts of imagined "ill treatment" of African Americans, who actually often lived in the master's house, or had private rooms in the servant quarters of the mansion, or whose children played alongside the owner family, blacks with white children, or were given manumission liberty when the master died, etc." Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:35, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the links. Carrite (talk) 03:56, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Your third question "Do you feel that editors at Wikipedia must have righteous, ideologically correct takes on every issue in order to participate at Wikipedia?" is a bit strange and my one word answer is "no". Productive editors with a wide range of ideologies collaborate all the time on Wikipedia without serious friction, because they are here to improve the encyclopedia and are committed to our policies and guidelines. In this case, I concluded that Wikid77 was repeatedly engaging in tendentious and disruptive commentary motivated by extremist racial views on a highly visible page. The quotations above are just a small sample of this editor's extensive and repeated extremist POV pushing. I blocked on that basis and asked the community to review my block. It turns out that a very large percentage of the editors who took a look at the block share my assessment. I understand that you disagree and I take that very seriously. As for moral certitude and patting myself on the back, nothing can be further from the truth. The whole situation and especially your vigorous criticism has led to a lot of soul searching and self doubt on my part. The one aspect of your criticism that I fully accept as correct is my failure to properly document the specific comments that I thought were out of line. At the time, I thought that it was all clear in the context of the discussions but I now see that this was not the case. In the future, I will be much more careful to be specific in my warnings and block notices. So, I thank you for making me aware of that shortcoming, and for motivating me to think clearly about all the issues that you have raised, Carrite. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:28, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
For my part, reading through the thread it is clear that there was quite extensive pushing of a fringe-minority interpretation of history largely at-odds with objective reality. And I can see blocking on that basis — with diffs and a warning — in the first case; and a more extended block — with diffs and a warning — for a second offense. But this was bullshit being spread on a discussion page, in the final analysis, and where I'm sitting, that shouldn't be a capital offense. Going straight to indef and then effectively tossing him to the lions with an AN thread was excessive, relative to the "crime" of espousing twisted views of history on a general discussion page. The comment made elsewhere that "Jimmy Wales never objected, and in fact participated in the discussion Wikid started — so why intervene so severly?" rings true to me. The end result — predictably — is going to be a site ban of a useful Wikipedian with an ignorant blindness to the issues of race in America and Civil War history. Too much, done poorly, is my bottom-line assessment. best, — tim /// Carrite (talk) 04:46, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
@C328... In the example you outlined above, concerning the application of a certain highly inflammatory word by the contentious editor; the use of the term in the context of a hypothetical situation was completely gratuitous, and I fully support your action. Quoting from an accepted source is one thing, but this was not that. Good call. Best regards, Hamster Sandwich (talk) 05:10, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

─────────────────────────Carrite, I did not go straight to an indef. I warned him quite clearly over six months ago and blocked him for 48 hours with another clear warning last month. I suspect that I will be unable to convince you, but I truly believe that tolerating repeated instances of bizarre racist theorizing on a highly visible public facing page is damaging to editor retention and the long term integrity of the encyclopedia. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:29, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

About previously blocked userEdit

I'm reaching out for some advice. There's a clearly very young new editor who has been adding unsourced material, getting reverted, then responding by lashing out on talk pages and removing content from (other) articles in retaliation against, I guess, the encyclopedia. They were taken to ANI previously, and you (rightly) handed them a 72hr block for this behavior. Sam Sailor has since reached out to help them, as have I, but they just say "sorry" and keep doing the same things. Another ANI and longer block might be inevitable, but are there other interventions you might suggest, based on your experience? I would hope to retain an enthusiastic new editor, but not at any cost. Thanks. Bakazaka (talk) 23:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Blocking editorsEdit

I wish I was the administrator but I'm sorry for threatening other people Oreratile1207 (talk) 08:50, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced editsEdit

I didn't know how to add sources, but Poverty Die is Olamide's new song, you should listen to it on Spotify Cullen328, Robvanvee, I'm so sorry for reverting your edits, I was just so angry you reverted mine, please forgive me, I'll leave your article alone, Cullen328, please don't block me Oreratile1207 (talk) 15:31, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Wikid77Edit

I've made a suggestion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#time to move on? that you might be of interest to you. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 23:49, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, North Shoreman. I have been following that discussion closely, and I really appreciate your input. Very helpful. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:22, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry MerryEdit

  Happy Christmas!
Hello Cullen328,
Early in A Child's Christmas in Wales the young Dylan and his friend Jim Prothero witness smoke pouring from Jim's home. After the conflagration has been extinguished Dylan writes that

Nobody could have had a noisier Christmas Eve. And when the firemen turned off the hose and were standing in the wet, smoky room, Jim's Aunt, Miss. Prothero, came downstairs and peered in at them. Jim and I waited, very quietly, to hear what she would say to them. She said the right thing, always. She looked at the three tall firemen in their shining helmets, standing among the smoke and cinders and dissolving snowballs, and she said, "Would you like anything to read?"

My thanks to you for your efforts to keep the 'pedia readable in case the firemen chose one of our articles :-) Best wishes to you and yours and happy editing in 2019. MarnetteD|Talk 08:39, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, MarnetteD. I am a Californian and we have suffered several years of murderous fires that have burned tens of thousands of homes and killed hundreds of people. We are very fond of firefighters here. Thank you for the interesting story, and Happy Holidays to you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:49, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
You are most welcome C. My thoughts, prayers and best hopes go out to all involved. MarnetteD|Talk 08:51, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

AOC balanceEdit

I saw your revert of my edit, along with your explanation. My edit was an attempt at inserting balance into a highly misleading section of the AOC article. As currently constituted, it falsely portrays Israel as shooting peaceful protesters, and also falsely portrays Jewish groups as behind solidly in support of her position on Israel. If the article includes AOC's claims about shooting "protesters", should it not be explained that those protesters were violent? If the article contains AOC's claims of Jewish individuals thanking her for her views, as well as J Street's president lauding her for the same, why should that not be balanced out by criticism from the other side? The section as it currently appears is highly biased, pushing an anti-Netanyahu POV. Vcuttolo (talk) 09:58, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

As I said in my edit summary, you need to gain consensus at Talk: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and that is where this discussion should take place, Vcuttolo. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:57, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
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