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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

"Komm rein, mach mit", meaning "Come, join us".


Assistance with article creationEdit

So I'm trying to create an article for Tamara de Anda as right now she's a red link. (this blue link leads to the draft) I think I've found enough sources to prove that she's notable but I'm still not one hundred percent sure. Also, I'm really not sure if I've gotten the entire formatting of the article down correctly. I'm still kind of a new editor, and the only other article I've made was about three months ago before school started back up for the year and I'm also still convinced that it was beginners luck. Anyway, enough rambling. What I really need to know is this: 1) The subject is Mexican and I don't know how to work with the entire 'de Anda' part of her name and I'd really like to! 2)Is she actually notable? I think she is but I also don't trust myself 3)How should the article be formatted/ written? I've tried to keep it fairly concise and orderly but I'm not sure if my definition of organized and Wikipedia's definition are the same and 4) if it is appropriate, what should I do next? The last article I made went through AFC because it was the easiest, but I've been reading the guidelines here and it says in the primer not to put new women in red articles through AFC? For now, it's just hanging out in the draftspace so I figure it's probably okay there. Anyway. I'm super sorry if this was the wrong place to ask for help and if anybody does feel like lending me a hand then thank you so much! GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 23:39, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

GreenLipstickLesbian, I'll try to address your questions in order. Others are more than welcome to help fill in any gaps that I leave.
  1. According to Spanish naming customs#The particle "de" (of), her surname should be rendered "De Anda" when used alone but "de Anda" when used in conjunction with her given name(s) (e.g. Tamara de Anda).
  2. Regarding notability, the main thing to consider is that the article needs to demonstrate that she has been the subject of "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of [her]" (per WP:GNG) and that such coverage is not solely related to the catcalling-taxi cab driver incident and its aftermath (per WP:BLP1E). In other words, the primary focus of the article should be De Anda's work as an author, journalist, and activist.
  3. The formatting that you've used for the article looks fine. As the article expands, you'll want to make use of section headings. (I've introduced one such heading into the draft article; the Spanish language version uses several.
  4. One reason that the primer advises against using the AfC process is that it is currently—and has been for some time—severely backlogged. Articles submitted via the AfC process can languish in draftspace for several weeks after they have been submitted for review. You'll generally get a much quicker response by asking for a review here, or by just boldly moving the article to mainspace yourself.
If you would like to continue discussion about improving this draft article specifically, we can do so at your talk page or the talk page of the draft article. ebbillings (talk) 16:27, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
Ebbillings Wow, thak you for all that information and advice! I'll try and use it as soon as I get home(I'm on my school's wifi right now on my phone and that's not an amazing combination) All of what you've told me makes sense so hopefully I won't need to ask for too much help but if I do then I'll ask on the talk page that's a good idea. Again, thank you so much!! GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 18:52, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
Sorry I couldn't do much more than generic formatting fixes. I did look around for sources, but most/all of them appear to be in Spanish. But the article looks like a pretty good start, and the existence of a non-English version bodes well for notability too.
Unfortunately, the only thing that takes longer than getting a draft through AfC, is getting a draft through AfC when the sources are all in a non-English language. So yeah, you may be better off just publishing the article directly when you think you are good and done, rather than waiting for a review. GMGtalk 18:57, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
GreenMeansGo (Sorry for the late response I had to take the SAT last Saturday and I thought I should probably actually study for it) No, thakn you for all those little thinks you did! I'm still not used to how Wikipedia formats things; you made the article look so much nicer! So, what you're saying is that submitting my first ever article over the summer with mostly Korean-language sources was a really great idea? Anyway, so I just went and added some of Ebbillings' advice just now and reformatted some stuff. I fee like I should be bold, but I also feel like I should be talking about this on its talkpage now so I'm so sorry if I messed anything up here, and I also feel like the sentence structure on some parts of the article are a little awkward? Just checking back in here I guess because everybody on this project just seems so nice and dedicated so I'm sorry if I'm bothering anyone, and again thank you Greenmeansgo for helping all those weeks ago. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 01:50, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Hey, no problem at all GreenLipstickLesbian. Us green folk gotta stick together you know. I went ahead and did some more polishing and published the draft. If you're interested, you may consider nominating it for a Did You Know if you've got time over the next week. Incidentally, it does look like Andrea Arsuaga also has a Spanish language article and none in English, in case you're looking for an entry on your to-do list.
Hope your SAT went well, and thanks for helping us build a better encyclopedia. Feel free to reach out to me if I can ever be of any help. GMGtalk 14:04, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Wow, thank you GreenMeansGo the article looks so Wikipedia-like now! Oh, DYK's are submitted? I guess that makes sense; I might do that then later. And yes, I definitely am looking for a to-do list so I'll see if I can make an article on her as soon as I'm on my laptop again.
Thanks, I feel like it went well enough. Thank you again for helping me on this, and yes I probably will reach out to you in the future because I don't think this is the last time I'll get stuck on something and you're right, you are a fellow green folk! GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 16:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Gender qEdit

There are three wikidata records for people - drag queens - which have no 'sex or gender' property. As a consequence they pop up in all reports of 'wikidata people records with no gender', which is a bit of a PITA. On the off-chance, is there anyone on this board sufficiently knowledgable to fill in the blanks? thx --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:45, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, what is the correct value for these? Are they transgender proper? Are they males who play females? Are they people who exist(ed) or characters that were played? Cracker's articles refers to him as a he. LaBeija's article refers to her as a she. Miss Leona refers to her and a she, but Rémy Solé as a he. In which case, is the WD item for the person or the character being portrayed by the person? GMGtalk 20:02, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
@GreenMeansGo: I'm afraid I don't know. Male? Genderqueer? Transgender female? That's why I brought them here, on the offchance someone in this forum was more familiar than I am with the drag queen subculture. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:07, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Hmm. Actually Tagishsimon, looking into it I guess drag queen (Q337084) is defined as man who dresses and acts with exaggerated femininity for performance purposes. So by that definition, a trans m2f would be categorically disqualified, while... I guess a trans f2m who dresses up like females would be qualified? That's all a bit confusing. Maybe we should ask WP:LGBT. GMGtalk 20:14, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks GMG; good idea & thank you for doing so. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:21, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
queer woman raises hand* RuPaul's Drag Race star Miz Cracker should be "male". Though I'm not familiar with them, from everything I can find Miss Leona should also be "male". Crystal LaBeija is a much more difficult one: the ball culture had both cis drag queens and trans women (it's the subject of the current TV series Pose), and it wasn't unknown for the lines to be more blurred in the 70s than they probably would be today. I can't find a definitive source on how she identified either way, though there's definitely at least speculation she was trans. I think there's always going to be cases of long-dead gender variant people where either we don't know or it is disputed and that there probably should be some form of "unknown/disputed" category for these cases. I also think it would be a good idea to change the description of drag queen (Q337084) slightly - while drag queens are usually men, there have also been plenty of trans women drag queens and even a few trans men and cis women ones. The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, The Drover's Wife , much appreciated. I've added two males and amended the drag queen description. We'll leave Crystal with no value until we get more info - which, I grant, may be never. Thanks again to GNG for getting this thread moving. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:57, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

The Women Silversmiths of EnglandEdit

A little digging around online turned up this article, which appears to contain some interesting leads for anyone inclined to be writing about decorative arts. Not sure if all of the names mentioned meet the notability standard, but it's a great starting point nonetheless. I mention it in part because I found this book, Women Silversmiths, 1685-1845: Works from the Collection of the National Museum of Women in the Arts, at the museum a couple of months ago, and bought it. It doesn't appear to contain much biographical information, but it does have a list of women whose silver is in the museum's collection, which I intend to use to develop a set of stub articles in a couple of months. (Sometime at the beginning of next year, most likely.) It also has a large list of all the known women silver- and goldsmiths whose marks were known as of 1990, which could also prove to be useful. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:11, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. To be followed up as time permits.--Ipigott (talk) 21:56, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
I'd be loath to suggest "silversmiths" as a subset for monthly editing, as I suspect the potential would be limited. But perhaps a focus on "decorative artists" wouldn't go amiss. I'll try to work up a copy of the list of artists when I have a chance. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 05:41, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Ser Amantio di Nicolao, good find. We could definitely use a crowd-sourced list for "decorative artists". Too bad there isn't a Wikidata item for "decorative artist". Maybe if we ran a SPARQL query for "decorative arts" (Q631931), the humans in its category and subcategories would populate such a redlist for us? We will need a Wikidata expert to sort this out before March so that we add "decorative artists" to our redlist offerings for our annual Art+Feminism event. --Rosiestep (talk) 10:57, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
For decorative arts, another site which might be of interest: the Cooper-Hewitt Museum of the Smithsonian Institution, which is dedicated to the collection of design. A list of "people" from their website is here, but it's a hot mess, as far as I can tell. Collectors are mingled in with artists and there's no easy way to break the former out from the latter. If anyone else wants to work it over and see what results, be my guest. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 15:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

A pleasant returnEdit

I don't know how many of you have noticed but one of our most ardent supporters is back. Let's hope it will be without further interruptions.--Ipigott (talk) 22:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I was delighted when he thanked me for creating an article yesterday! Oronsay (talk) 23:20, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
He appears to be retired again. SL93 (talk) 18:08, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Did you know nominationEdit

Anne-Marie Lagrange

Composite image of the Beta Pictoris system as visualised in infrared.

Created by Polyamorph (talk). Self-nominated at 11:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC).

  •  : hook character count (216) is over 200. L293D ( • ) 14:44, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •   198 characters, no copyvios, cited, long enough. L293D ( • ) 15:16, 29 October 2018 (UTC)


hi all, i have recently created articles on a couple of ozzie milliners, Felicity Brown, and Ann Shoebridge, as there are only 81 pages at the Category:Milliners (that includes both women and men!), theres probably a lot more women milliners that are missing out on a wikiarticle  Coolabahapple (talk) 08:53, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

  • Thanks for bringing this up, Coolabahapple. I noticed that the occupation of "millner" redirects to hatmaking (Q663375). However, "hatter" (Q1639239) exists on Wikidata and several language Wikipedias have articles about it, but not English. I guess, someone could create a Wikidata-generated redlist for "millner" but would need to include Q663375 and Q1639239. @Victuallers, SusunW, Ipigott, and Megalibrarygirl: do you know who has been creating our recent Wikidata lists, and can we ask them to work on this one? --Rosiestep (talk) 10:30, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Remembering that Gamaliel has helped me with some redlists so adding here. --Rosiestep (talk) 10:39, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Rosiestep: I already tried out "hatter" and "milliner" on Wikidata but there were no results. The nearest we have is Fashion designers.--Ipigott (talk) 11:11, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Ipigott, "hatter" (Q1639239) does exist. What we don't currently have is an English-language Wikipedia article about it, while other language Wikipedias do. --Rosiestep (talk) 11:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Rosiestep: I was referring to the terms on Wikidata where both "hatter" and "milliner" exist. I therefore ran each Q item but there were no results from either of them. You can see here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Milliners.--Ipigott (talk) 11:27, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Ipigott, Ok, I see what you mean: there are no items to populate the Wikidata redlist as all the articles about women millners/hatmakers from other language Wikipedias already have an English-language article. --Rosiestep (talk) 11:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Just looked on Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by dictionary/ADB and found two Australian women described as milliners. On Wikidata, the occupation was listed as Q21550776. Surely this is the Q no. a list could be generated from? Oronsay (talk) 20:35, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Oronsay: If you look at the revision history of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Milliners, you'll see I tried that too but no items from other language versions of Wikidata were found. I then tried "hatter" but the result was no better. Other language versions seem to be happier using items related to fashion designers under Q3501317.--Ipigott (talk) 07:31, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
@Coolabahapple, Ipigott, and Oronsay: I found an old milliner's magazine, The Illustrated Milliner, and added a lot of hat images to Commons. Will add them to our #1day1woman outcomes section, too. Lots of men milliner's in the magazine; but unfortunately, only 1 woman pictured, a manager of a millinery company. --Rosiestep (talk) 00:04, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Wow, thanks Rosiestep, they are wonderful! ive added some of the pictures to 1910s in Western fashion#Women's fashion, it was very difficult to choose which ones, but i though if i added too many some grumpy editor would undo my edits:)) Coolabahapple (talk) 04:45, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I recently got some help from d:Wikidata:Request a query for the WIR librarians list, and applied the same workaround here, and it seems to have fixed whatever wasn't working with the original version of the query. Gamaliel (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

So you have. Good work, Gamaliel. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:41, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


If you handle photos, there is none for the incumbent head of state of Greenland, Mikaela Engell, or of the Faroes, Lene Moyell Johansen. (Beside their bios, pix should be at List of elected and appointed female heads of state and government.) — kwami (talk) 18:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Lolita Cabrera Gainsborg - same as Lolita Val de Cabrera Gainsborg?Edit

I'm guessing that these are two different names for the same pianist, but this link says Lolita Val de Cabrera Gainsborg performed at Carnegie Hall at 4 years old also says that she is of Cuban descent. This link says that Lolita Cabrera Gainsborg is of Bolivian heritage and started playing piano at 3 1/2 years old. This link says that Lolita Cabrera Gainsborg made her debut at 14 years old and called her a child prodigy. I'm wondering if this is the same person or two separate people. SL93 (talk) 18:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Her father was Russian and came to the US in June 1890, was naturalized in 1896.[1] Note on the 1900 census, Lolita born in December 1894 shows born in South America, but that is crossed out.[2]. Her mother was Bolivian[3][4] Her naming trend is odd. Typically Spanish name would be father surname/mother surname, i.e. Lolita Gainsborg Cabrera. "De" is usually an indicator of marriage, so she would become at marriage Lolita Gainsborg de X. Obviously a 4 year old was not married. So it's strange, indeed. SusunW (talk) 19:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
This [5] says she debuted in a chamber in Carnegie hall at age four and had her professional debut at 14. Also says she is married with 2 children. This obit gives the children's names, but not their surname [6] SusunW (talk) 19:22, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
SL93 Okay, one more, she was married to Paul Mahler, a chemist.[7] Apparently she used Mahler as her private name and Gainsborg as her professional name.[8][9] No clue what the "Val de" refers to. SusunW (talk) 19:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Wow. I don't think I would be able to form a good article with my skills. Thanks for the help and erasing a bit of the confusion. I found her name by chance while browsing International Discography of Women Composers by Aaron I. Cohen. SL93 (talk) 19:52, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Of course you can SL93! Figuring out identity is hard. Once you've done that, it is simply a matter of documentation. Collaboration certainly helps. :) Seems to me she is clearly notable. Composer, musicologist,[10] radio pioneer, as well. Lots of news articles through 1933. You might also look in the free New York Press archives.[11], [12]
I will see what I can do sometime this week. I will probably just use my sandbox first. SL93 (talk) 20:23, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
That's what I always do. Keeps those taggers away while you develop the article. Ping me if you need help. SusunW (talk) 20:29, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

SusunW I was wondering if you could give suggestions for a different article that I have at User:SL93/sandbox whether with the writing style or what I should add. The article sounds clunky to me at the moment. SL93 (talk) 02:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

SL93, see what you think. I have no idea of page references to the The Norton/Grove dictionary of women. I cannot access it from the Google link in Mexico and though there is an open access copy at, it is checked out with a waitlist. To cite material from the pages, you just need to add the link {{sfn|Sadie|Samuel|1995|p=}} after the text and input the page number. SusunW (talk) 07:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
It looks great. How can someone check out references from I have been on the website before, but I guess I never heard of doing that. SL93 (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
SL93 it is a fabulous resource. All you have to do is sign up with a user name. Many items there require no user name, but those that still are under copyright do. If, like in this case the book you need is one of those, you press a button that says borrow. You then have exclusive use of the source for 14 days, or until you return it. If someone else has checked it out, it will say "join the waitlist". When their 14-day borrowing has expired, you will get an e-mail that notifies you that it is available. search instructions can be found in the WiR primer. SusunW (talk) 15:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

A Space of Their Own - database of women artistsEdit

From the blog of the National Museum of Women in the Arts: "Researchers at Indiana University Bloomington are creating a comprehensive online database of female artists active in the U.S. and Europe from the 15th to 19th centuries." More here from Hyperallergic.

The article also mentions the CLARA database from NMWA, no longer being updated, and the Canadian Women Artists History Initiative, of which I have heard as well. There is also the database kept by AWARE, an index of women visual artists born between 1860 and 1920. That one I'd never encountered before.

The Indiana University database has yet to come online, and it looks like it's going to be in the very early stages soon. Even so, this is a.) an exciting development, and b.) a potentially great new source, it seems. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 16:54, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Fabulous Ser Amantio di Nicolao. You should put the links on the Ideas page for Art + Feminism in March. SusunW (talk) 17:06, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
@SusunW: Done. :-) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:36, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Upcoming women's cricket tournamentEdit

Hi everyone. For info, the 2018 ICC Women's World Twenty20 will start on 9 November in the West Indies. Ten teams are taking part, with the full squad lists here. If anyone has any interest in expanding any of the biographies, even with just one source, then your help will be much appreciated. Some are in good shape, some are not. Players who are currently black linked, will have an article once they make their debut. Any questions/comments, please drop me a note/ping. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 12:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Cancelled contests update requestEdit

Hello. I was wondering what was happening with the 100,000 challenge for Women in Red. It was supposed to happen in November 2017 but never did. Same with the 1% contest (but that has been deleted?). Are either of these contests to be rescheduled? Thanks. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

I guess User:Dr. Blofeld was the motivating force behind these, and he's currently in retirement, spending time with his sharks & white cat. If so, unless we find a Blofeld mini-me, then they're not happening. All very sad; and best wishes to Dr. B. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:46, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
@MrLinkinPark333 and Tagishsimon: This became the highly successful Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest held in November 2017 under Dr. Blofeld's excellent management and guidance. As for Dr. Blofeld himself, although his user page says retired, he has been editing recently as can be seen from his talk page. In any case, if anyone can arrange for support (i.e. funding for prizes), it might well be worthwhile relaunching the 100,000 Challenge for Women in Red.--Ipigott (talk) 08:36, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words. Keep the faith, we'll get there somehow even if the 100,000 Challenge and a 1% contest isn't on just yet. My proposal was actually privately rejected so I didn't bother formally applying this year. It was a big struggle even to get what we did for the African Destubathon and Women in Red contest. The WMF grants staff are not trained in how to build a great content encyclopedia, they're trained in general project management and logistics and Wikipedia isn't your typical project. If WMF gave me a small percentage of their grants budget I could start to overhaul the mess which exists on the site and get people improving every article! I'm still trying to figure out some way we can scale this to what we want. I'm hoping to run a California general state contest in February perhaps, with all article improvements welcome, but top prize for improving/creating articles on women, based on the African Destubathon model. We'll see. One more contest might open some doors, but we really need outside investment if we're to pull off a 100,000 Challenge women challenge as it takes a long time to even get 3000 articles as evidenced by my challenges. 100,000 Challenge would need probably six Women in Red contests a year to make it worthwhile and we can't do that right now.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:16, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
  • If as I think is the issue the prize money is necessary for the project, could someone explain how the prize money application for previous contests cannot be simply repeated? It is after all the same idea a year later. If necessary the project could be funded entirely independently from the Wikimedia Foundation via the Women in Red volunteer and social media framework, which unless I am missing something is not part of the Wikimedia Foundation and can if necessary fundraise independently for the contest funds. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 15:28, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

WMF didn't feel comfortable with giving a British man funding to run contests about women benefiting the developing world, they want to support women themselves in these countries. A woman from Women in Red could probably still apply for a rapid Grant of up to $2000 in prize money for a contest but they'll have to run it, which is super time consuming. WIR has acquired User Group status, obtaining a grant for a prize fund for multiple contests or raising it independently is still very possible, but from what I gather people here are either busy or unwilling to apply for a grant or privately raise it and be involved in that side of things.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:19, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Minor correction, WiR is not a User Group. @Rosiestep and Megalibrarygirl: and I formed the Gender Diversity Visibility Community, with the specific goals of increasing the visibility of the WiR community and expanding the available sourcing data available to members of WiR network. In that regard, we are exploring ways to improve access to sourcing, to establish a multi-language library which members can access, and to build bridges with GLAM organizations to identify collections which may help editors improve articles, to mention a few avenues we are exploring. (We are working right now to gain access to AllAfrica and the Associated Negro Press archives.) I cannot speak for anyone other than myself, but I have no time available with real life commitments, editing and working with the User Group to devote to running a contest. If a WiR volunteer wants to apply for a Grant and run a contest, I'd probably be able to contribute articles, but I am stretched thin at present. SusunW (talk) 17:24, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Like SusunW, if someone applied for a grant and ran a contest, I would contribute articles. But I am stretched thin with personal responsibilities as well as my activities with the newly-formed User Group (with SusunW and Megalibrarygirl), plus V-P of Wikimedia DC, Secretary of AffCom, Wikipedia Visiting Scholar at Northeastern University, and member of the 2030 movement strategy Community Health Working Group. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:33, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
If you outline the basic process you followed before I don't mind doing a lot of this. I have free time to run a contest or at least do a lot of it. You (Dr. Blofeld & others) could effectively supervise or at least keep an eye on things, this would not take much of your time and you would still be involved. The idea that the right person from the right background will step up do everything is not working, but unless I am mistaken we don't need that. It is enough to have a suitably inspirational person as the lead, but not necessarily doing the setup or clerical work of running the contest. I propose we look for someone who might be interested in taking a public lead role in applying for a grant and representing the contest. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 17:39, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
You're welcome to run a contest for Women in Red. I want to set up a framework which benefits dozens of wikiprojects eventually and get people to run them, I can't run everything! Sometime I also want to set up a Women in Green contest and get people working on promoting core women articles to GA.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Wow, I wasn't expecting that many responses. Thanks for the replies :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:49, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Good you brought it up, MrLinkinPark333. It looks as if our Icelandic Frayae might be able to run the next round. I too would be happy to assist but do not want to become involved in grant applications.--Ipigott (talk) 19:52, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Ipigott: It was more that it was on my watchlist for awhile ;) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:55, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Late to the party (as when am I not?) but I wanted to express support for this as well. I'm not in a position to help run a contest, but I'm more than happy to help create content for it. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 09:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Assuming that a contest is better than no contest and that it is better to apply soon due to the time it takes, I have created meta:Grants:Project/Rapid/Women in Red. There is a section for endorsements, but someone checking I filled it out right may be wise. I have written up something that is more or less the World Contest again, but for the areas and peoples that tend to be overlooked. I think it would be easy enough to tie this into the overall drive for 100,000 articles and get that challenge started. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 21:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
    • Can I suggest that the budget is a little bit small if we want to do something as effective as The World Contest? One of the reasons that was so effective was that there were broadly distributed prizes, which meant that it was still possible to win something if you didn't have tons of time. I was frantically busy that month and still managed 25 articles in very underrepresented areas, but I thought I'd have a go and so did a much broader group of people than I think might otherwise have given it a try. Smallish numbers of prizes are a bit discouraging because they mean many people can't participate in it as an actual contest. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:34, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
      • @The Drover's Wife: The maximum grant is $2000. Do you have any thoughts on what prizes could be awarded with that? — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 10:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
        • Just spit balling, but it looks like with something like this (someone can probably find a better quote if they do more digging), you can get the cost of a 16gb flash drive down to about five bucks a piece when ordering 100 and have them custom printed with the WIR logo. Someone'd have to figure what the shipping cost would be for each, but surely it wouldn't be that much if we're sending them to Europe and North America? If we could get that figure down to about two bucks per item on average, then for around $700 US we could provide a useful prize to a hundred participants. But we'd have to set up distro in the US and Europe, or however the logistics would work out best, and then factor in shipping cost for the rest of the world.
          Anyway, that's the kind of thing that I would intuitively look for: something that costs a few bucks each when ordered in bulk. Also something that doesn't weigh very much so it's cheap to ship. GMGtalk 15:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
          • We could also probably cajole someone at OTRS into setting up a custom address for someone who has signed the NDA (waves) to process PII like addresses for the participants. Anyway, I did some work in logistics at the small/medium business level for a while when I was younger. So happy to help in that regard any way I can. GMGtalk 15:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
            • @GreenMeansGo: This is a good idea, not just because we could offer more prizes. Also because branded items give more connection to the project. If you could supply with a more exact idea of what could be achieved for $1000 (which must include all payment fees, sales tax, postage packing) then I think this could be considered as the prefered option. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 20:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
              • I'm also not sure why the shift to sending out stuff - the vouchers for the World Contest were much more useful than something that the contest had to pay to be physically sent. Not trying to be a downer though - very glad this discussion is happening, just keen for it to be as big a success as possible. The Drover's Wife (talk) 20:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
                • Well, it looks like this site is slightly cheaper, at $4.89 each per hundred (for 8gb). In total, that's $535.78 with taxes and shipping in the US. The cost of envelopes is incidental, as is printing up a nice letter to enclose, and I'd be more than happy to donate that. It would almost certainly be cheaper to box up whatever goes to Europe and mail that in bulk to some wikipedian there for distribution, rather than mailing individually from the US. But I have no idea how much that would cost. I haven't been to Europe in a long time. I have no idea how to estimate postage to the rest of the world. In the US at least, a USB drive is small/light enough that it could be sent in a regular envelope, probably for a single $0.50 stamp. Again, I don't know how that would translate to the rest of the world. (There are other items like branded sports bottles that are cheaper individually, but would be much more expensive to package and send. On the other end, there are things like custom stickers, which should be much cheaper to mass produce, but would cost about the same to ship as a USB drive.) You can also pre-load a USB drive with...well...pretty much anything you want, like if someone put together a short thank-you video, or even one of the high-quality videos like they showed ad Wikicon NA.
                • TDW is correct obviously, that a virtual prize all but eliminates the logistics. Part of that depends on how much we value giving something tangible, along with a nicely worded letter of thanks. Then there's also the reason anyone gives away branded merchandise in the first place, that you have people walking around with a symbol of your brand, and potentially a conversation starter. GMGtalk 21:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────── The way I see it is this:

  • The Wikimedia Foundation have already said no to Dr. Blofeld's proposed rerun of last years contest. It is unclear exactly why so we should try and give them something interesting and new to increase the likelihood of them agreeing with the proposal.
  • The grant rules specifically prohibit cash prizes, gift vouchers are very close to being cash. I understand that Amazon gift vouchers were used previously to represent books. I believe these vouchers can be spent on anything in Amazon so this is not very specific, it is very close to giving cash and does not appear to fit the spirit of the grant rules well.
  • Countries without Amazon would be a major concern here, gift vouchers work well in developed areas only. Given the nature of the contest which is to encourage articles about the less well known areas of the world and engage people from these areas it would make sense to have a prize that does not rely on Amazon shipping to the winners zip code.
  • A customised item is something you can't buy yourself. Anything you can buy with a voucher you can buy yourself with money and it is not very special or much of a prize. If we send a uniquely styled item it is instantly special, even if it isn't worth much.
  • A voucher is just a number and unless the number is quite big not impressive. With branded items even a little thing can have a much bigger impact in making people feel appreciated and rewarded.
  • As GreenMeansGo says above, branded merchandise is a constant reminder of the brand featured on it, something bought with a voucher is not.

For these reasons and because it will potentially allow us to award more individual prizes, I suggest we award tangible branded merchandise as contest prizes. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 22:04, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

  • Incidentally, since I'm on a kick looking at bulk websites now, looks like you can get custom printed vinyl stickers [13] (of the type you could put on your car) at 3.5in x 3.5in in size, and they'd cost $0.62 each at an order of 250, for a total of $157.77 with free shipping. So you could get 100 usb drives, and 250 stickers for $693.55 Assuming US shipping cost, if everyone with a usb drive also got a sticker, and then you gave 150 additional stickers out on their own, you would be looking at $125 in shipping to individuals, for a total of $818.55 to give away 250 prizes. GMGtalk 22:35, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
We can't assume US shipping, though - so the costs would be massively larger. I'm not sure I see the point of spending so much money on something that's going to cost a sizable amount of the grant to make and ship and then probably sit in a drawer for the rest of time. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:45, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
I just end up throwing stickers away (to be clear, I don't have a car). It's just my opinion, but I think that even fridge magnets would be better than stickers, though not plain looking ones. Custom t-shirts would be a great idea if someone could find out about shipping. I have personally used which ships internationally. SL93 (talk) 00:51, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
We could use items from the Wikipedia store. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 01:01, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
I was just shooting out ideas really. No offense of they're bad ideas. But using the WP store, you're not going to get a very good deal unless they give us a discount at cost. GMGtalk 03:09, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately Frayae has been banned as a sock so won't be running the contest. Somebody will have to say so on the rapid grant request on Metawiki.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:08, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Women not even in redEdit

Roz Young wasn't even in red. The Dayton Daily News article didn't even mention her. Just a long list of almost-exclusively male columnists, almost all in blue. valereee (talk) 15:07, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Valereee: that's from my old neck of the woods: I was born in Cleveland. :) Glad you wrote about her. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:41, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Megalibrarygirl I grew up in Dayton reading her columns. You know who else wasn't even in red on the DDN page? Marj Heyduck. She's there in red now, lol, guess I'll have to write that one next. valereee (talk) 18:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

So how do we fix it. I've seen similar issues in sports coverage, but some of what I've encountered also involves age. Is it feasible to lower the bar a bit in the notability guideline regarding what we can expect for coverage pre-21st Century, if the opportunities/achievements were equivalent but not the coverage? Atsme✍🏻📧 18:36, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Good question. Marj Heyduck was covering wrestling in SW Ohio in the 1940s, looks like. That in itself should have been commented on somewhere, you'd think. :) valereee (talk) 18:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
@Valereee and Atsme: Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#RfC:_Amendment_for_BIO_to_address_systemic_bias_in_the_base_of_sources SusunW (talk) 19:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks SusunW jeez, pretty depressing valereee (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
+1 - and I'll add...that's WP democracy in action. I didn't look to see how many females voted "oppose"?? 😳 Atsme✍🏻📧 20:11, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Democracy only works if people take a stand, one way or the other. Otherwise, you allow mob rule others to make your choices for you. SusunW (talk) 20:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Red-linking women in underrepresented areas (or straight writing articles where we're that lacking) is always an important part of the work. I feel like that notability proposal was instantly doomed by the overreach in the initial proposal, which was never going to find support - it's enough of a battle, given the lean of Wikipedia's editor-base, to win support for these kind of things when you don't put up a flawed proposal. The Drover's Wife (talk) 20:56, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Featured quality source review RFCEdit

Editors in this WikiProject may be interested in the featured quality source review RFC that has been ongoing. It would change the featured article candidate process (FAC) so that source reviews would need to occur prior to any other reviews for FAC. Your comments are appreciated. --IznoRepeat (talk) 21:35, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposed article moves for "Grace Gao"Edit

There's a proposed series of article moves around a couple of women called Grace Gao (one is a badminton player, the other a human rights activist). Grace Gao (human rights activist) is a new WiR article so I thought people here might in interested in joining the discussion. Basically, as it says in the opening to the proposition, the move would be 'Grace GaoGrace Gao (badminton):

There are two articles about people called Grace Gao, neither of which, it seems, have priority over the other in terms of which should be "primary topic". Moving the content of this article to "Grace Gao (badminton)" (following article naming conventions: e.g., Michelle Li (badminton)) would distinguish the Grace Gao this article refers to from Grace Gao (human rights activist) — with Grace Gao (disambiguation) enabling people to find which Grace Gao they are looking for. This would be following similar precedent of, for example, Alexandra Bruce (badminton); Michael Fuchs (badminton); Kevin Li (badminton); Michelle Li (badminton) [all of which have corresponding disambiguation pages].

--Woofboy (talk) 20:53, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Central Asia EncyclopediasEdit

For Asia month, I have been focusing on Central Asia, as our coverage there is dismal. In that regard, I have found two Encyclopedias (I can never remember where these are kept), that have full access:

  • {{cite book |ref=harv |last1=Зенькович |first1=Николай А. |title=Национальная политика: творцы и исполнители |date=2008 |publisher=Олма Медиа Груп |location=Moscow, Russia |isbn=978-5-373-01754-1 |page=345 |url= |language=Russian |trans-title=National Policy: Creators and Performers}}

It would be lovely if someone could figure out how to archive this link, but I could not and don't have the technical skill to figure out why not. The other one, I was able to archive.

  • {{cite book |ref=harv|last1=Бектурганова |first1=Күлбүбү |title=Кыргызстандын асыл кыздары |date=2006 |publisher=Мамлекеттик тил жана энциклопедия борбору |location=Bishkek, Kyrgystan |isbn=9967-14-040-2 |url= |archiveurl= |archivedate=25 July 2018 |language=Kyrgyz |trans-title=Precious girls of Kyrgyzstan}}

If someone can help by putting these links with our other resources that have full access, that would be marvelous. It would of course, also be helpful if someone could index them, in their "spare time". SusunW (talk) 22:25, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

And another from Tajikistan: SusunW (talk) 16:08, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

  • {{cite book |last1=Bashiri |first1=Iraj |title=Prominent Tajik Figures of the Twentieth Century |date=2002 |publisher=International Borbad Foundation, Academy of Sciences of Tajikistan |location=Dushanbe, Tajikistan |oclc=501842788 |url= |language=English}}
@SusunW: That last one I'm pretty sure I wrung dry for the contest last year. I checked it over, and I think I wrote articles about all the women there. I agree with your first point, too: I was stunned at the lack of coverage of Central Asian topics I discovered last year. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
There are two more which exist as well: the Uzbek Soviet Encyclopedia and the National Encyclopedia of Uzbekistan. I believe there used to be a digital version of the second one, but I can't find it at the moment. I do know that it was used as the source of a lot of articles over on the Uzbek Wikipedia. The big problem I had with both of them was transliteration; I'm not sure how to transliterate Uzbek-language names into English, and I didn't want to plunge blindly in. If anyone knows how, or could develop a list in transliterated English, I think it would be very useful. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Ser Amantio di Nicolao well, then I shan't tell you of the woman I found who was one of the "key features of the 60, 70, and 80s" and whose mom was the first woman to run the Tajik Department of Women ;) You'll just have to wait until I publish it. But, yes, we need redlists prepared by someone who can properly transliterate the names. SusunW (talk) 17:53, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@SusunW: Oh, I'm sure I may have missed one, or two...or three...or four... :-)
Another site, too, which may be of interest to those who are working on film-related subjects: It is in Russian, but it's a great database of Soviet-era actors, from all over the Soviet Union. I've found a number of Central Asians on there. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
One more. Pretty much if the surname ends in "a", it's a woman. In the first part of the book, names are alphabetical with brief bios. In the back they are listed by country. And, it's in English!:
  • {{cite book |ref=harv |editor1-last=Crowley |editor1-first=Edward L. |editor2-last=Lebed |editor2-first=Andrew I. |editor3-last=Schulz |editor3-first=Heinrich E. |title=Prominent Personalities in the USSR |date=1968 |publisher=[[Scarecrow Press]] |location=Metuchen, New Jersey |oclc=82054760 |url=}} SusunW (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Two more:

  • {{cite book |title=Women in the Soviet Union: statistical returns |date=1970 |publisher=Progress Publishers |location=Moscow, USSR |oclc=151620 |url= |language=English}}
  • {{cite book |editor1-last=İsmayil |editor1-first=Vəliyev |title=Azərbaycan qadını ensiklopediyası |date=2002 |publisher=Azərbaycan Milli Ensiklopediyası Nəşriyyat-Poliqrafiya Birliyi |location=Baku, Azerbaijan |url= |archiveurl= |archivedate=20 November 2018 |language=Azerbaijani |trans-title=Encyclopedia of Azerbaijani Women}} SusunW (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

A Space of Their Own, a New Online Database, Will Feature Works by 600+ Overlooked Female Artists from the 15th-19th CenturiesEdit

Check it out: A Space of Their Own, a New Online Database, Will Feature Works by 600+ Overlooked Female Artists from the 15th-19th Centuries. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:11, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the interesting link! Reposted on my social media accounts. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:28, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Lady Angela ForbesEdit

There is a new article on an Edwardian woman being referred to on the Main Page as "an elderly gorilla afflicted with sex appeal". That comes from the pen of Edith Sitwell, it seems. There is a discussion at WP:ERRORS. Additional comments there are welcome as always. (talk) 09:18, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

  • It would be appreciated if editors from Women in Red would comment there (in the section "DYK current"). Otherwise we'll never get it across that women shouldn't be represented that way on the main page. SarahSV (talk) 20:46, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
It beggars belief that this is still on the Main Page, particularly when there are such good alternatives. (Shall we mention her wartime service? No, let's lead with a sexualised insult made about her appearance, 15 years after her death.) This is shameful. (talk) 21:11, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
Good recommendation. I sometimes participate in DYK review in order to get my own DYK noms pushed along, and I've occasionally noticed other DYK hooks that show very poor judgment - bad grammar, slightly off-color comments, gross or shocking photos, and other stuff that just doesn't belong on the front page. Like anything else in Wikipedia, just dive in there and be bold. Its quite common for hooks to be rejected by the reviewer and marked with strikeout. Be sure to compose and recommend an alternate hook if one was not already provided. BTW the place to do this work for DYK is this page for DYK, by the time stuff shows up in the "queue" it has already been approved and will be harder to fix. --Krelnik (talk) 01:26, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
@Maile66 and Krelnik: the problem is that it's too time-consuming. Looking at the page Krelnik linked to, there aren't even any descriptive headings, so you literally have to scroll through each one. No one should have to do that to keep racist and sexist hooks off the main page. There should be a policy, but any attempt to create one will devolve into whataboutism. SarahSV (talk) 03:12, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
I've got no argument with you there. I kind of dread even nominating one of my own articles because the process is so arcane. But the time-consuming nature of DYK stuff means very few people participate in it, and that's how stuff like this slips through. Perhaps we could figure out a way to automate something to flag DYKs of interest to WiR and call them to everyone's attention, like the article alert system? --Krelnik (talk) 03:25, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Update: According to Wikipedia:Article_alerts the authors are aware that the front page workflows like DYK would be useful to have in the alert system. But since DYK was proposed over 8 years ago it hasn't been prioritized. I'll start a another thread in that feature requests page and maybe we can all pile on to try to get it prioritized? --Krelnik (talk) 03:32, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Please leave a note here and/or ping people if you need support. I can't help with technical issues, but I support anything that will help to stop this. SarahSV (talk) 03:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
My request to the Article Alerts maintainers is here. Feel free to pile on with positive comments, FWIW. --Krelnik (talk) 03:51, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Interesting, I've never noticed before, but it doesn't appear that transcluding the DYK nomination on the article's talk page adds the page to any DYK related tracking categories. If this was the case, we could at least generate half way decent manual reports using PetScan. GMGtalk 16:30, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • The discussion has been removed from that page, because the hook is no longer on the main page. See DYK talk here for a link. Anyone wanting to comment further on that particular hook can do so there. SarahSV (talk) 00:55, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Nira Yuval-DavisEdit

I wonder if any editor here would be interested in taking a stab at this article. The subject appears notable under WP:AUTHOR and WP:PROF, but the draft is clearly written by somebody with a COI. If there are editors interested in "adopting" this draft, that would be great. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:20, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Two questions about newly created articleEdit

I created Lila Gene George and I have two questions - How do I add an entry on Wikidata and how do I cite correctly? SL93 (talk) 05:32, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

@SL93: I see the wikidata link has been made. But the (easiest) answer to Q1 is, install this gadget, 'cos it's ace. If not, go to and search to see if there is already an entry for Lila George and if there is not, create a new item, and maybe wade through the introduction section here ... and when you have created the wikidata item, add a sitelink back to the article. (TBH, you need to check whether an item corresponding to an article subject exists, whether you take the gadget route or the manual route.) Wikidata is very very far from intuitive, but great fun once it all clicks into place. ... not sure. Probably use {{cite news}}, but with a URL. --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:36, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict)
    Hi there, SL93, and thanks for all your biographies of women. I noticed that you have not been using {{DEFAULTSORT:}} in your biographies. (You can include it by clicking on it in the Wiki markup at the foot of the page you are editing.) It's important as it gives the correct alphabetical order in category listings, etc. It's also useful to add {{authority control}} to biographies. I've been back over your recent articles and added both. On Wikidata, I must say I found it pretty difficult to edit the standard Wikidata at I found it much easier when I installed the Wikidata gadget. You can find out all about it here. As for citing newspapers, I use the following parameters: <ref>{{cite web|url=|title=|author=|publisher=|date=|accessdate= |language=}}</ref>. It could, for example, look like this: <ref>{{cite web|url=|title=System error: Japan cyber security minister admits he has never used a computer |author=McCurry, Yoshitaka|publisher=''The Guardian''|date=15 November 2018|accessdate=15 November 2018 |language=}}</ref>. I would also encourage you to use the article talk pages, adding the appropriate WIR tags whenever possible. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 08:51, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
    I've just noticed you are not yet a member of Women in Red. You can join by registering in the box at the top of the main Women in Red page. In connection with women's biographies, you might also find it useful to look through our Ten Simple Rules and our Primer for creating women's biographies.--Ipigott (talk) 10:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
There's a sample citation at the page. Penny Richards (talk) 14:54, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Oooh, thanks for pointing that out. I've noticed some people linking to clippings on but I didn't realize it was actually recommended policy to link this way. Makes total sense now that I read that page. Also good to know the clippings won't disappear if my account were to go away - that was part of my concern. Learn something new every day. --Krelnik (talk) 15:23, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
I must not be clipping it correctly because when I click on the clipping link, it only shows a small portion of what I need. SL93 (talk) 15:36, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Oh, I found out what I did wrong. SL93 (talk) 15:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Ipigott Thanks for your help. I looked at the list of members and I see my username there. It looks like I just forgot the userbox. SL93 (talk) 18:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

SL93: Sorry, I should have checked more carefully. I checked the mailing list and found you were not there. I've now added your name. If you don't want to receive our monthly notices, please feel free to remove it and add your name to our Opt-out list.--Ipigott (talk) 07:52, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Native American Women Playwrights ArchiveEdit

Another source of interest: the Native American Women Playwrights Archive at Walter Havighurst Special Collections & University Archives at Miami University of Ohio. Most of the individual writers listed in the archive have articles, but a handful do not. Looks like quite an interesting site. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:19, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Ewin TangEdit

I noticed Draft:Ewin Tang because it had been posted at the WikiProject Physics talk page, but it may be of interest over here too. XOR'easter (talk) 17:16, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

I've expressed the view on Draft talk:Ewin Tang that the article is ready to be promoted, and would be likely to survive AfD should someone be misguided enough to send it there - the tl:dr concern being raised right now is that if promoted it would be AfD'd. I'd encourage others from this group to express their opinions on the talk page, having checked the article & its sources. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:39, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Finding women who aren't even in redEdit

I just went through the website of my (small midwestern city) hometown's most important cemetery -- the place where prominent people were buried -- and found over twenty women's names to research. valereee (talk) 18:43, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Valereee, exactly! There are notable women all over the world. We just have to find them. I've been working for several months on a notable Belarusian scientist whose male professor warned her 160 years ago that her work would continue to be known long after she was forgotten. So true, I find tantalizing traces of her, but no complete information. Her work is *still* cited, but no one seems to know much about her. Typical story for so many women. Finding them, and then documenting their lives is critical to balancing the historic record. Thank you so much for your work! SusunW (talk) 20:09, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
SusunW one of the problems I'm seeming to see is that some of these small-city women were so very prominent in that town during their lives that no one thought they'd ever be forgotten, lol. The woman I'm researchng now was called the town's 'most prominent historian' in her 1940 obit, and her name isn't even redlinked on the city's article. Her entire presence in Wikipedia is in references for other articles, as the author of various books. valereee (talk) 22:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
My experience is that it can be particularly easy to justify inclusion of articles on people who are authors of multiple books: as long as you can find in-depth published reviews of the books, you can use them to make the case for WP:AUTHOR. In comparison, someone who died in 1940 and was the most prominent person in her town could well only have local newspaper records documenting her life, and although WP:GNG doesn't actually say anything about locality, you can be sure some deletionists will seize on the local nature of the coverage as an excuse for deletion. But maybe that's because I'm working in an area (academic biography) where book reviews are common and nonlocal; finding reviews for someone who published books only on local history could be more challenging. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
So true, David Eppstein Lots of women, who were not in academia were widely read. Rosiestep and I have worked on several together, (Rosie way more than me). Often in newspapers there is coverage of their work picked up in the Associated Press and outside of their local area in various newspapers. Valereee, If you don't have access to or, give me a shout and I'll see what I can find. You might also search in Hathitrust. SusunW (talk) 23:05, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
SusunW I sprang for a membership, lol. Too many of the citations I was looking for are only available there. Hadn't heard of hathitrust, I'll have to check that out. Any reason to pay for in addition to valereee (talk) 23:15, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
@David Eppstein, SusunW, and Valereee: That's the pickle. There are so many notable women who aren't part of a list somewhere. When I find one, I feel like I'm a miner, and I've uncovered a gem. Finding additional sources after the first one can be problematic. Like many of you, I use all sorts of search methods to find them. I recognize that I'm privileged by being a WVS at Northeastern Univ, which gives me access to additional resources. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:31, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
Valereee, you can get access to and other archives via the Wikipedia Library. You don't have to pay for them. SarahSV (talk) 23:38, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
Absolutely a reason to have both. They carry different newspapers. I just found newspapers for Kazakhstan in; only has US, Australia, Britain and Canada. :) Valereee look at our primer, there are lots of ideas for sourcing there. SusunW (talk) 23:43, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
I second that recommendation of Hathitrust - it has lots of weird old stuff digitized. I found a family genealogical history written by the father of someone I was writing about. Not a great source by itself, but fine for filling some ancillary details like names of relatives and so on, and it led me to an interesting detail about the subject's family that I never would have found otherwise. Also good for directly linking to out-of-copyright works by the subject, on the occasion that they are not in Google Books or Internet Archive. --Krelnik (talk) 13:26, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I had a similar encounter earlier this evening. I was at Lisner Auditorium for a performance by Washington Concert Opera (Sapho by Charles Gounod, for those who might be keeping snore score), and had a chance to actually look at the artwork in the basement for once. (All of the pieces on display used to be numbered, but happily they have since been labeled instead.) Found a few women artists I'd never heard of before, including Louise Lyons Heustis. She ticks my boxes of interest as both a Southerner (from Mobile, Alabama originally) and a woman artist. There is an article in her biography, which I will develop at some point, but it's proving damn difficult to find much material. A few things on Google Books, but almost nothing on the modern web - it's amazing how thoroughly she has fallen out of sight; she doesn't appear to have been especially prominent during her career, but was nevertheless a well-regarded society portraitist. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 04:20, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Naming conventions - Carrie KentEdit

Pursuant to the above discussion of women not even in red, I was fixing up wikilinks to Alice Harrell Strickland (the first woman elected mayor in Georgia) and stumbled upon Carrie Kent, the first African-American woman elected mayor in Georgia. (The story gets even better from there - the town was incorporated by a committee entirely of women, who also composed the entirety of the first city government. Apparently this got national TV coverage at the time, but of course the Walthourville, Georgia article makes NO mention of it. I will fix that ASAP).

But here's my question. In newspaper articles of the time she was elected, she was called Carrie Kent. But that's her married name and she was born Carrie Brown. So normally I would start her article as Carrie Brown Kent. However...

Articles from the time of her death all refer to her as "Carrie (Kent) Brown" or "Carrie Kent-Brown" - see this news story and this paid obit and even this photo of a stone monument to her in Walthoursville. Is this a naming convention in certain communities that I've just never encountered?

So I've got Carrie Kent, Carrie Kent Brown and Carrie Brown Kent. Clearly I can call attention to the alternate names in the lede and infobox. But which one should be the article name, which should be the redirects? --Krelnik (talk) 15:48, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Krelnik, what a great find! I usually go with what the majority of sources say at the time she was living, to avoid any "new age" naming conventions. I searched for Carrie Kent Brown and find 0 hits. Carrie Kent-Brown results in 0 as well. What I do find is Mother Carrie Brown :), but mostly Carrie Kent. I'd go with Carrie Kent and do redirects for the name-sames. SusunW (talk) 15:57, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Psychology's Feminist VoicesEdit

Yet another site I've found in my travels around the internet: Psychology's Feminist Voices. It contains lists of biographies, both historical and contemporary. Some have articles...quite a few do not. Another list for me to try and generate in a day or two, or three...or whenever I have a chance. :-) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 04:12, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

FWIW I had a very positive experience working with one of the authors there. A hunk of the material at Amy Tanner had been derived from her bio at that website, and when I was doing some additions to the our article I discovered that the PFV site had gotten her birth and death date wrong, confusing her with a different Amy Tanner. Once I documented the correct ones, using sources that weren't available when she wrote her bio, the author at the website fixed up her version to match. --Krelnik (talk) 13:25, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Months on African cinema : Wikidata Women occupationsEdit

Hello. I just realized it might interest you to check out the Wiki Loves Women occupation drive. This is an attempt to improve the occupation labels in WikiData with non gender-biased description and description in more languages (than just English and French...). I am not sure any of you active people can help, because we do not have so many speakers around able to translate "actor" in say... Amharic. But still thought worth mentioning here in case you can point African language local speakers to it in the future. Cheers. Anthere (talk)

  • Actually, this is really important. Thanks for mentioning, Anthere. I wonder if there's something meaningful we could do about it using AI? --Rosiestep (talk) 16:50, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
I am not sure. I would tend to think that this is best left by human. The initial idea was given to me by Harmonia and she insisted that this would typically be something helping the Wikidata community because they considered that had to be done by humans. Practically speaking, it turns out to be quite complicated (or confusing ?) because in some (or many) cases, the term does not exist in the local language and is replaced by the English one. Anthere (talk) 00:14, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

New journal article publishedEdit

Hello folks. Just wanted to let you know that an article I wrote about the history of women in engineering on wiki has been published (open access, hurrah!) here. If you have any thoughts or comments then I'd be very glad to learn from them. Zeromonk (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Zeromonk, Great article. I was very interested to read your analysis of the "History of women in engineering" page. It points to a specific conundrum often encountered — how does one incorporate women (and minorities) into the encyclopedia. The problem is, to my mind, that most people are never taught about anything other than mainstream culture. Studying minority history only typically occurs at the university level, thus broad knowledge of marginalized people's history is unknown in general, and is taught as separate fields (Gender Studies, Latino Studies, Caribbean Studies, African Studies, Asian Studies, etc). In a way, as always, WP then mirrors academia. Women/marginalized groups' history in any given field was different. From a historical perspective, they were treated separately: Their citizenship was questionable, their participation in the job market was often curtailed, as was their participation in general society. Trying to relate these different experiences becomes lost in an article about the entire field; while simultaneously reinforcing the obscurity of their experiences. It is often challenged as violating NPOV, as well. So how do you fix it? The only way I know is to fix/write each article when you notice a gap in coverage. Simply slapping on a tag for someone else to fix the problem, to my mind, just exacerbates the problem, as it points out that there is an issue but no will to actually "do" something about it. SusunW (talk) 18:24, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

BBC 100 Women 2018Edit

I guess it's that time of year again - see here. Jane (talk) 20:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

I've updated Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/BBC 100 Women redlinks, listing the 62 out of 100 women for whom we did not already have an article, at the top of the page. I guess in time they can be pushed down into their respective countries, but it might be useful to consider them as a cohort for the time being. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:10, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Jane (talk) 15:32, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

And now, thanks to a fb live video on "rebel editting Wikipedia", we now have an article about human rights activist Uma Devi Badi, courtesy of User:RebelEdit (video is here). Jane (talk) 12:37, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Peel: Nice work, thanks. How do I connect your Svetlana Alekseeva (Q58914439) to my newly-created Svetlana Alekseeva (model)? I'm a bit vague about Wikidata, though I've add {{Authority control}}. PamD 16:18, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
@PamD: like this. The list should automatically update at some point. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:30, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
@Mike Peel: Thanks. I got to the Wikidata entry for her but couldn't work out how to link to the disambiguated title. PamD 16:34, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
You can add the sitelink by clicking 'Edit' next to 'Wikipedia', then 'en' in the wiki box, then the page title in the next box, then click 'publish' (again next to 'Wikipedia'). It's a bit of a different interface from here, but straightforward once you've done it once or twice. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
Good work on adding the awards to Wikidata, Mike. That was to be my evening task, but you're way ahead of me. Thank you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:40, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

List of city governments entirely run by womenEdit

In working on the aforementioned Carrie Kent and Walthourville, Georgia all-women government story from 1974 (see above), I was trying to verify the claim made in one article that they were the first in the U.S. It quickly turned out to be bunk - first in Georgia sure, but not in the U.S. But researching this led to a rabbit hole as these things do. The interesting thing is press coverage of the phenomenon of all-woman city governments is all over the place. Lots of different towns claiming to be the first, or articles on recent ones citing "the last time this happened was..." and they always cite a different town. Got me thinking that we're in a good position to help fix this going forward.

Among the towns that have done this are five different towns in Kansas (possibly more) between 1887 and 1896; Kanab, Utah in 1911; Umatilla, Oregon in 1916 which has a whole article about it: Petticoat Revolution; Jackson, Wyoming and Yoncalla, Oregon in 1920; Winslow, Arkansas in 1925; Duvall, Washington in 1932 and Washington, Virginia in 1950. (Of course the pace picks up rapidly in the late 20th century). I'm sure there are others that I'll find once I start digging into sources deeper, I've just been using easily googled web sources for now.

So naturally I'm going to try to put material on these events into the pages for each town, but I'm wondering if there's a good place to get references to this phenomenon all in one place so a writer researching this in the future would be able find it. Among the places that seem likely:

One problem with the mayor articles is in some cases the election where the all-women council came in wasn't necessarily the first woman mayor for that town. I was thinking maybe a new article or list about the phenomenon of all-women governments, but I'm always wary to start things like that for fear of original research claims. Any thoughts? --Krelnik (talk) 23:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

I have this same problem. Note above my collection on women in central Asia. Where do we put this kind of stuff so we can easily find it? We need a library. *sigh* I think a list would be less likely to be considered OR. For an article, you'd have to have sources which address the phenomena as a whole. Just my opinion, which is worth nothing. SusunW (talk) 00:49, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@Krelnik: I think it's a great idea. Another for your list: Clintwood, Virginia elected an all-female town council in 1948.
What I'd like to know, since we're on the subject: who was the first female mayor in Virginia? Google is surprisingly tight-lipped on that subject, last I checked. I'd love to write an article about her...if I knew who she was. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
The Richmond Times-Dispatch claims it was Dorothy Davis of Washington, who was elected in 1950 along with the aforementioned all-woman city council. I'd find another source to back that up if I were you, though, since this is occasionally a disputed topic. When I was writing Susan Wissler, I found multiple sources that said she was either the first woman mayor in America or elected within days of the first woman mayor, when the actual first woman mayor predated her by two decades. TheCatalyst31 ReactionCreation 06:13, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@TheCatalyst31: Hmm. Interesting. I know it's not right, because Clintwood elected its all-female council, including mayor, two years earlier. I really ought to shoot the Library of Virginia an e-mail and see what they have to say. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 06:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@TheCatalyst31 and Ser Amantio di Nicolao: I guess this Virginia issue certainly underscores the problem I pointed out. I found a newspaper source on the 1948 Clintwood election and added it to the Clintwood article - the 1950 claim is clearly wrong. I'm working on some other stuff right now, but I will create this list of all-women governments sometime soon as I've collected a ton of them into an offline note. --Krelnik (talk) 22:01, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@Krelnik: As of now, it appears Clintwood is the best candidate for town with first woman mayor in Virginia. This pleases me greatly - I always enjoy the chance to write about Southwestern Virginia, and I find the political history of that part of the Commonwealth to be particularly interesting. Clintwood is the county seat of Dickenson County; one of the first two women returned to the Virginia House of Delegates was Helen Timmons Henderson, of neighboring Buchanan County. Her daughter, Helen Ruth Henderson, also served in the House. Furthermore, at least two more of the early women members of the House were from western Virginia. (I sometimes think that a fascinating study could be made out of the history of women's participation in local politics across the rural South...I'm equally certain that I'm not the person to write it.)
Incidentally, this conversation has also gotten me wondering about the first woman to serve as mayor in the state of Maryland. Thus far the leading candidate appears to be Elizabeth Harrington, who was elected mayor of Greenbelt in 1949, and I think I'm safe in writing an article about her. Again, if anyone can turn up someone earlier I'd be gratified to run with it. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:02, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Sakina AliyevaEdit

I love this quote..."Ömrünün çoxunu dövlət yolunda sərf etmiş, dəfələrlə respublika Parlamentinin deputatı, sədr müavini olmuş, yüksək dərəcəli orden və medallarla, Fəxri Fərmanlarla təltif olunmuş, uzun illər Naxçıvanın siyasi və ictimai həyatında həlledici bir rol oynamış bir şəxs haqqında bu qədərmi məlumatsızlıq olmalıdır? Bu gün 'google'a gir, ən istedadsız müğənninin adını yaz, qarşına yüzlərlə qovluq çıxacaqdır. Amma ömrünü dövlətə həsr etmiş adam haqqında heç nə! Budurmu bizim qədirşünaslığımız?" (Should there be such a lack of knowledge about a person who has spent most of her life in service to the state, who was a deputy of the Republican Parliament, Deputy Chairman of the Parliament, honored with awards and medals, Honorary Decrees, who has played a crucial role in Nakchivan's political and public life for many years? Go to "google" today, write the name of the most talented singer, and you'll get hundreds of articles. But nothing about the woman who devoted her life to the state! Is this our titillation?) SusunW (talk) 00:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Source helpEdit

Just got this article past GA, headed to DYK, but I have a sneaking suspicion this could wind up at FA, if I could only incorporate the material from these three dedicated biographies. Unfortunately, none of them are available anywhere online, and it looks like they can cost upward of $50 in at least one instance. Anybody have access to a university library wanna see what they can see? GMGtalk 14:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a mirror of the world’s gender biasesEdit

Thank you, Katherine (WMF) for your insightful article, "Wikipedia is a mirror of the world’s gender biases", 18 October 2018, Wikimedia Blog. We appreciate that you've spotlighted the complex issues surrounding gender bias. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:30, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

People probably wonder why I'm writing all these articles about women, which seems out of character for me, but it really is simply identifying pieces like the one above as valid criticism and trying to do something about it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:45, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
I think that is the perfect reason, Rtichie333. If you see a problem, you can be part of the solution. Anyone can write about women or other groups that have been marginalized, if they can find sources. Not always easy to do, but every article helps make our world more reflective of the actual diversity that exists. I for one am grateful for all the allies in this work. SusunW (talk) 22:22, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

4 recurring hashtag trends that will make your Tweets more impactfulEdit

For those of you involved in Women in Red's social media outreach, this article might interest you. Simple things like adding #MotivationMonday, #TravelTuesday, #WCW, and #TBT may provide broader reach with our tweets. Let's try it? --Rosiestep (talk) 16:46, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Virginia Women's Monument Wall of HonorEdit

A little poking around related to a thread earlier on this page revealed this list: Names from the Wall of Honor on the Virginia Women’s Monument. (We also have Draft:Virginia Women's Monument, which I will take a look at at some point.) Many women here have articles, but many more do not. Criteria for inclusion state: "The nominee must have demonstrated notable achievement, made a significant contribution, or set an important example, within her chosen field of endeavor, her region or at the state or national level. Significance will be assessed within the context of what was customary for a woman to have achieved or contributed in the context of the particular time, place and circumstances in which she lived and worked." This suggests that subjects will absolutely meet the notability guideline. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:16, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

These may be the same people I spoke with at a recent local event about this topic. If I can find their card I can reach out if there's any problems or assistance needed. Gamaliel (talk) 18:18, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@Gamaliel: Thanks, I'll let you know...I probably won't be ready to do anything on the subject until sometime next year. (Probably won't be ready to do a lot of things until sometime next year...) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Women in music timelineEdit

This might be of interest: Gamaliel (talk) 18:18, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Good find.--Ipigott (talk) 20:02, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
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