Possible use of AWB?Edit

Hello Certes. Could you give me some advice please? I'm thinking about using AWB to add joy to my life, but I'm a Mac user and before I follow the guidance on how to register and download a compatible version, I'd like to know what you think about a suitable task? {{main}} should not be used at a lead section, it is only appropriate for sections in the body of an article. An indiscriminate bot request for all articles may have adverse consequences, but semi-automation in a limited set of articles I think is feasible. What is required is for every article containing "United States presidential election in" in the title (e.g. 1992 United States presidential election in California), delete any code {{main|...}} that occurs before the lead. Is that a task AWB could handle? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: Assuming that no one will object to the change, that is a perfect task for AWB. You can make the list simply from a wiki search on intitle: (though more sophisticated options are available) and it's a fairly simple regex substitution. I use AWB on Ubuntu, which is more Mac-like than Windows. It's usable but has a few rough edges, probably due to limitations in Wine rather than AWB. JWB is an alternative worth considering and could also handle this task. If you're looking for similar work, WP:AWB/TA usually has jobs waiting. Certes (talk) 10:53, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
That's great, thank you. I'll go ahead and register. I'm not looking for work just yet haha! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:13, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Re: Remove URL redundant with identifier in autolinked citationEdit

If you're referring to this edit, I agree with you and that's indeed the point of the edit: instead of going to an URL which may or may not work, we now link PMC which is always reliable. Nemo 12:32, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: Yes, I suppose my beef is with the DOI resolution system. It is unfortunate that it leads us to a paywall when content is freely available elsewhere, but that's hardly the fault of those who insert the DOIs. We should be careful to preserve URLs when they provide a more accessible alternative to the DOI, though I agree that this was not the case for your edit. I'm also concerned about losing information for the future, when a DOI which works today might be diverted to greedy-middleman.com/insert-credit-card and a plain URL alongside would have continued to serve our readers well. Certes (talk) 13:31, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
We could use oadoi.org instead of doi.org. The Italian Wikipedia does. Nemo 16:29, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
That sounds like a big improvement. We're treating the intermediary for these links like a sister project, and oadoi's values seem to align much more closely with Wikipedia's. I found the free link I mentioned on your talk page via their Unpaywall extension. Certes (talk) 18:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
I agree. It's a big step though, so I think we're more likely to get there gradually. One step is to start using the links Unpaywall suggests us: Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Autolinking would help because OAbot can add hdl automatically. Nemo 18:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)


Hi there, Certes! Thank you so much for thanking me in that edit on List of numbers! I'm your friend now. Pedro Lucas Silva (talk) 16:39, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pedro Lucas Silva: You're very welcome. Wikignoming is an undervalued activity that helps our readers get the best out of Wikipedia's content. Adding free-to-read citation links unlocks important resources for readers who might otherwise hit a paywall and give up. Thanks again for your contributions. It's a friendly community here, so if you want any help, just leave a message on a relevant talk page and a subject expert should be along soon. Certes (talk) 17:41, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

😄 Pedro Lucas Silva (talk) 19:18, 12 June 2021 (UTC)


Hi. I am sorry to bother you, and I am absolutely not up for a fight over this, but I wondered about your vandalism warning on User talk: Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that the edits are wrong and a royal pain to revert, but my guess was that this was some kind of good-faith attempt to do something they thought was useful or necessary, which seems to invoke Even if misguided, willfully against consensus, or disruptive, any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia is not vandalism at the link from the template. What do you think? Cheers DBaK (talk) 11:32, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

@DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered: On reflection, I think you're right and I failed to AGF here. I've toned down the warning, hopefully before the IP notices it. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Certes (talk) 12:47, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! That is exceedingly decent of you. Much appreciated. With all good wishes DBaK (talk) 14:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation linksEdit

This is because I hate seeing "(disambiguation)" placed into MY edits. Getting blocked from editing makes me feel depressed as a Wikipedian. If you send ME a message like THAT, It gets me be like warned/having account deleted in Roblox to me. Don't SEND me a message like that. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by RVE865Wiki (talkcontribs) 19:47, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

@RVE865Wiki: Unfortunately, it is sometimes necessary to insert "(disambiguation)", even into edits you have made. The reasons are explained in WP:INTDAB. A block might be depressing, but it's easy to avoid by following the advice that several editors have given you. If you disagree with some of our policies or guidelines, you could seek a consensus to change them, but it may be better to divert your efforts to other areas of Wikipedia where our aims are more closely aligned with yours. I hope that helps you to enjoy continuing to edit constructively, and that no one has reason to block you. Certes (talk) 23:40, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

A note regarding orphaned and underlinked contentEdit

When Wikipedia content is orphaned or underlinked, it is like being on a hamster wheel. The work is performed, but then nobody will ever see it, negating the purpose of performing the work in the first place, deforming it into pointless busy work.
North America1000 19:47, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Technical Barnstar
For your excellent reply at WP:VPT with the Quarry query. Thanks! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 08:32, 4 July 2021 (UTC)




You've been whacked with a wet trout.

whyyyy? ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
20:41, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
@1234qwer1234qwer4: Wrong sort of fish! Saran (film) and Saran (movie) should both redirect to a common dab containing Saran (1963 film) and Saran (1991 film). Certes (talk) 21:35, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
... ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
21:36, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Links in bolded titlesEdit

Prompted by WP:ANI#Long term pattern of Wikilink vandalism from Jordanian IP's. I doubt that new links are common enough to justify a filter. Irritants like the subject of that discussion are rare (and such editors often add DABlinks as well, and get caught that way). More common are edits by people who don't know about MOS:BOLDAVOID - and they need manual intervention, either by moving the link along to the next occurrence or by tinkering with the lead.

For a one-off report, how about this pseudocode:

  1. Ignore if DAB
  2. Ignore between {{ }}
  3. Look for first triple-apostrophe
  4. If [[ found, add to log
  5. If second triple-apostrophe found, stop
  6. If no second triple-apostrophe found, log for a different reason (whole article in boldface)

It might take a second or two to test all 6M articles, but filtering by recent creations or most-recent edits might yield something manageable. Narky Blert (talk) 07:18, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

"whole article in boldface" – FYI, the bolding will stop with a new paragraph. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
07:32, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Looks good but there really are 6M to check, and Cirrus search, PetScan, Quarry, etc. can't help, so it would have to be automated. (I keep meaning to get into bot writing, and I don't think a read-only bot which just lists offenders would need approval.) I would also flag [[ before (or even without) ''', to catch leads beginning A foo is a .... Linking "A" there is a common test edit which I've fixed many times.
I've worked through links to The. Eleven were wrong but there's no pattern: a mix of possible misclicks in VE, careless links to [[The|Foo]] and one vandal but no repeat offenders. Certes (talk) 13:34, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Use the AWB database scanner on the latest mainspace-only database dump. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
17:54, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip. Does this requires downloading a huge dump file to process locally, or is there somewhere (Toolforge?) that allows one to scan a central dump and just transfer the tiny results file? Certes (talk) 18:59, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
My understanding of WP:BOTPOL is that not only bots which might merrily corrupt the whole encyclopaedia need heavy-duty approval, but also ones which might clog the servers by making an inordinate number of rapid requests.
From DOS days, I remember a little TSR loaded from AUTOEXEC.BAT which sat in the printer interrupt, and occasionally replaced "." with ", squire." Proofreading business letters before signature is good practice. Narky Blert (talk) 19:09, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Yes, you would need to download about 18 GB from https://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20210701/. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
20:26, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Why I meant GOD = 786 = Atom?Edit

Check https://tejascreative.wordpress.com/tag/lalitha-sahasranama-meanings-1000-names-divine-mother/ and search for 'Paramanu' on the page and you will find it is Atom. Kindly help me to unite religions by proving GOD is One and Religions are like diferrent rivers reaching One Ocean/ GOD. Please approve my content based on https://www.quora.com/What-is-786/answer/Vasanth-Kumar-Nagulakonda

Also check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalita_Sahasranama

GOD bless All. Please feel free to add my content yourself. All I want is people know that GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent.

Isn't my original research meant to unite religions good? I meant to stop the wars against religions. Please approve my addition to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/786_(number) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vasanthkn (talkcontribs) 12:02, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Vasanthkn: Thank you for the comments. The content you added does not seem to be related to the topic of 786 (number). It is also from self-published sources, which Wikipedia tries to avoid. We try to provide a balanced summary of the many views about God, on relevant pages, but an article about a number is not suitable for promoting one opinion, however sincerely held. If you still feel that this information is verifiable, neutral and relevant to the article, please raise the matter at Talk:786 (number) so we can seek other opinions and form a consensus. Thanks, Certes (talk) 12:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Done! Talk:786 (number) Vasanthkn (talk) 12:52, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Quarry request for Bluelink patrolEdit

Hi Certes! I saw your post at Wikipedia:Bot requests#Fixing proper name for The New York Times... and for some reason my head went in a different direction. I wonder if you would be able to create a Quarry query to find lowercase bluelinks such as peanuts that should should probably be changed to [[peanut]]s as follows:

  1. The singular link is commonly used in the lowercase (e.g. peanut, the food)
  2. The plural link is commonly used in the uppercase (e.g. Peanuts, the cartoon)
  3. The plural is not a redirect to the singular (but could be a redirect somewhere else, like Windows redirects to Microsoft Windows instead of window)

Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 20:40, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: Great idea. Unfortunately, the database available to Quarry normalises link targets to start with a capital, making no distinction between peanut and Peanut. Quarry cannot access wikitext, so doing exactly what you asked for would need a different solution. However, I've had a go at quarry:query/57082, with a few unjustified assumptions:
  1. "Commonly used" means the singular is linked 1000+ times from mainspace. (If the plural is rare, that just makes links more likely to be wrong.) Lowering this limit is easy and will find more pairs, but let's do the prolific cases first.
  2. The singular is not a blatant proper noun, e.g. uses {{Infobox settlement}} or is in Category:Surnames.
  3. The singular is not a redirect: we can easily remove this restriction but it might produce a lot more output
The output highlights genuine errors, e.g. adobes in Jatagan Mala, but produces lots of false positives, mainly due to unidentified proper nouns. Much of the noise is taxa but removing them would throw away Peanut and other good leads. Suggestions for improvement are welcome. Certes (talk) 02:22, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Pretty cool - thanks!
  • I changed Bunkers to redirect to Bunker (instead of Hazard (golf), since most of the links referred to military installations).
  • I changed Tombs to redirect to Tomb (instead of The Tombs, since only one link referred to that particular facility).
  • I changed SEAS to redirect to Seas (disambiguation) (instead of List of seas, since the only link was an acronym).
  • I changed all six lowercase links from tubas to [[tuba]]s, and added it to my Backlinks
  • I changed all three lowercase links from minds to [[mind]]s, and added it to my Backlinks
  • I changed two lowercase links from heavyweights to [[heavyweight]]s, unlinked the third, and added it to my Backlinks
  • I changed seven links from knockouts to [[knockout]]s, changed the last to knockout tournament, and added it to my Backlinks
  • I changed the only link from frauds to [[fraud]]s, and added it to my Backlinks
  • I changed both links from elks to [[elk]]s, and added it to my Backlinks
  • I changed several links from stocks to [[stock]]s, and unlinked a couple that were referring to inventory.
  • I unlinked a few instances of Sterns that referred to Sterns Music, and changed others to Stern's.
  • I changed most links from [[reason]]s to reasons (which redirects to reason (argument)).
  • I removed one incorrect link to Neptunes and removed one incorrect link to Vans.
  • I changed one link from Loves to Loves (band) (Ugh...List of Peel sessions still has bad links!)
  • I changed a few links from Hamlet to Hamlet (place), and removed one incorrect link to Hamlets. Many links should either be changed to Prince Hamlet or italicized.
  • I changed one link from Compasses to [[Compass]]es, and unlinked 1 referring to a magazine - need to look at lowercase compasses
  • I wonder how many links to baseball/basketball/volleyball should go to baseball (ball)/basketball (ball)/volleyball (ball), and what's an easy way to find them?
More work on this later - thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 06:16, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Well done. I thought I had my eye on hamlet and vans, but clearly missed a couple. I've also change a few redirects like airlocks. Basketball crossed my mind too. Searching has about a 20% success rate (Force, Heat Shield Rock, Orders of magnitude (area) and Sigma Alpha Mu on the first page) but I don't think the solution can be automated. Eddie Hickey was a basketball and American football coach, and only common sense tells us that he was not a plastic sphere. Certes (talk) 12:09, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
I also wonder whether more hatnotes are needed. Are most readers who visit Adobes seeking the Spanish village (pop. 68), or would a significant number prefer to know about adobe houses or bricks? Certes (talk) 12:38, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks again! I fixed many more articles. The phrases "basketball court", "baseball bat/cap", "golf/tennis ball" and "diameter/size of a basketball/baseball/volleyball" could be automated, but there weren't many of these. GoingBatty (talk) 22:32, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
I think only the last of those needs correction (and there may still be the occasional "size of a baseball field" etc.) However, we could extend the link to Basketball court, à la WP:WikiProject Disambiguation/Candidates for disambiguation by extending link. Certes (talk) 22:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
More work today:
If you want to change this from 1000+ to 500+, could you tweak the query so it shows the count for the singular and the plural, and exclude any where there are no article links to the plural? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 01:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
Done and run. Certes (talk) 12:52, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
Today's work:
Today's work:
  • Changed 13 fens to Fens/The Fens, changed 19 to [[fen]]s, unlinked 1 (duplicate link), and added it to my Backlinks GoingBatty (talk) 01:47, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

List of Peel sessionsEdit

The sorely missed presenter allegedly showcased a kaleidoscope and the entire town of Kaisers. I come across a lot of articles like that, and sometimes bother with the laborious chore of fixing them. Sadly, I've not found a tool that can list their bad links. PetScan is almost up to the job but can't exclude negative categories without limiting its search to positive ones too. Cirrus search can't handle it unless linksfrom: gets implemented. It's so common that it's almost worth writing a custom tool. Certes (talk) 00:00, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

...and a King! I've reviewed the whole "K" section and made some updates (my 42nd update to this article). GoingBatty (talk) 00:17, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
My go-to link is https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/johnpeel/sessions/ - if they ain't there, I doubt they ever recorded a session. Narky Blert (talk) 23:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
A great resource for the topic, but it doesn't tell me whether the "King" who appeared is the same one described in King (though I can guess). I was thinking of listing targets wikilinked from Article that are not in Category:Foo or its subcategories, but it's more difficult: not all of the guests belong in Category:Musicians and even that would take forever to trawl thousands of branches such as Category:South Korean women classical cellists‎. Certes (talk) 23:48, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXPfCUkQdacxuf9jRFBlM2A isn't RS, but is worth a visit. Narky Blert (talk) 23:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

RfC noticeEdit

This is a neutral notice sent to all non-bot/non-blocked registered users who edited Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics in the past year that there is a new request for comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics § RfC: Where should so-called voiceless approximants be covered?. Nardog (talk) 10:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Angel numbersEdit

Hi, sorry to bother you. Saw you've reverted this IP for refspam. Looks like they've been doing cross-wiki spamming on ES, IT, and FR by adding links to angelclan.org across many projects. Do you know what's the best ways/channels to report this? --Lovelife11111 (talk) 20:07, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Lovelife11111: Thanks for helping to keep Wikipedia vandal-free! That IP hasn't done any damage for two weeks (global contributions) so I hope they may have given up. If they return then you could report them to WP:AIV (or its equivalent in other languages), mentioning that it is cross-wiki, but that is only for current vandals. Certes (talk) 21:43, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
@Certes: That's very helpful, thank you. --Lovelife11111 (talk) 22:22, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Template : Lanchester Valley Railway RDT Route MapEdit

I printed out a copy of this to pass on to a friend who had requested it. However, the resultant printed image is spoilt by having many horizontal blank spaces. Can you possibly put matters right, as in the past, you have updated matters.

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 07:37, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

@Xenophon Philosopher: My only contribution to the map was to fix a link to a station. Map rendering is a black art which I've never mastered. The creator is still active, or someone at WP:WikiProject Trains or WP:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop may be able to help you. Certes (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Merge request, to an experienced Lua userEdit

Hi Certes: Template:Friendly search suggestions is listed for merging at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Holding cell#Other, as per the consensus at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 October 4#Reference search tools talk page templates. It has been listed for some time, but nobody has merged it. I had to request its undeletion because it was tagged for speedy deletion and then deleted sans any merge. See here for more information. I am requesting your assistance because I would perform the merge myself, but it involves use of Template:Invoke and Lua, which I am not versed in. I typically refrain from asking specifi users to perform such types of actions, but I don't know who else to ask at this time. North America1000 21:33, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

@Northamerica1000: Although the templates do invoke modules, I think this task mainly involves template changes rather than Lua coding. Primefac offered to do the merge in the collapsed section of Holding cell. That sounds like a better idea, as I've never looked inside either template before. {{Talk header}} is (quite rightly) TE protected, so I'd need help changing it anyway. Come back to me if you're really stuck, but I'll be busy off-wiki for the next couple of days. Certes (talk) 23:43, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Pinging Primefac here so they're aware of this convo. The template was deleted after the discussion closer added a speedy delete tag, but no merge ever occurred. It has since been undeleted by admin Liz per my request at their talk page (diff). I view the speedy tagging as a highly inappropriate supervote that totally ignores the consensus at the discussion in favor of a unilateral decision. I tried to do the merge, but ran into problems and don't want to mess everything up. I'm just looking forward to the prospect of it getting done. Then, it would be done. North America1000 00:23, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
Different subject. I created the new Pacific Northwest portal recently. Plenty of high-quality articles out there. I like it. North America1000 14:01, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Well done! I've added a hatnote in Pacific Northwest Portal, which was the first suggestion when I searched for it. Certes (talk) 15:01, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, that's cool. I missed that one! North America1000 15:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

FC Steaua BucureștiEdit

Don’t see the point in having this and Steaua București as two separate pages. I summarized the content of FC Steaua Bucuresti and moved it to Steaua Bucuresti, but got removed for vandalism. We need to reach consensus. 8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 11:19, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@8Dodo8: Yes, we need to reach consensus. I don't see your other edit as vandalism: whether it should stand is debatable but you are clearly acting in good faith. The nearest thing I can find to consensus is Talk:CSA Steaua București (football)#RfC on this article's content from 2018. Perhaps it is time to reopen the discussion. I don't have a view in favour of either claimant to the title; I just want the information organised methodically with all the links pointing to the correct articles. I picked this up today because most entries on our Templates with disambiguation links error report are pointing to the new dab. Most of them should link to whichever current club "owns" the history, but that's still unclear. Certes (talk) 11:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
I am also neutral, I am only trying to solve the situation because I am Romanian. don't think we will find out who "owns" the trophies too soon. FCSB has been always, but always credited as the continuation of original Steaua by UEFA in one way or another. The problem is CSA Steaua have won the honours up to 1998 in Romamiam court this summer, so this situation is far from over. My proposed solution is to turn all pages (FC Steaua București, FC Steaua Bucuresti, FC Steaua etc.) into redirects for Steaua Bucuresti and add there the explained situation (FCSB - honours attributed by UEFA, CSA honours won in court). I think the Rfc should be opened on WikiProject Football instead, because CSA Steaua is low traffic.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 11:45, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
That's a good idea. WP Football will have plenty of knowledgeable people who don't support either team. I support opening an RfC there, though I've no information or opinions to contribute to it. We should also notify WP Romania, and WP Disambiguation who will probably be left to fix all the wikilinks. Certes (talk) 11:49, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Well, I am not familiar with WP Disambig and what my compatriots are doing on the Romanian WP, but I am now opening a RfC on WikiProject football. I'll let you know in a few minutes when I'm done writing it.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 12:15, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
I posted the discussion here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#RfC on Steaua București disambig articles.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 13:04, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Lists of 100Edit

The canadian lists were the only series of lists that listed 100 in their titles. I fixed the links so that they would match their current titles. Sometimes it is ok to leave the links as they are. This isn't the case for these links. For example, it is ok to leave the link for the binomial name of dog in instances where the scientific name is discussed. Catchpoke (talk) 16:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Common history articleEdit

Hey, I am done arguing on that talk page, that guy Dante accuses me of being biased and the whole situation only gets on my nerves. I think a better solution would be the common history article we mentioned earlier. I created one for History of Universitatea Craiova (football club), which is in a similar situation to the one Steaua and FCSB have. Do you mind checking it out? I think adapting the already existent History of FC Steaua Bucuresti in the same way could be a solution. I will also announce an admin about the creation of the Craiova article this since I don't want to be called a vandal again.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 13:36, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Both the Universitatea Craiova dab and the History of Universitatea Craiova (football club) article look like very useful additions and could form a good model for our coverage of the Steaua clubs. I don't know enough about football or Romania to add anything further: I joined the original discussion to fix links to disambiguation pages. I'll keep an eye on the discussions but, with hard tackles coming in from both sides, I hope to be a spectator rather than the referee. Certes (talk) 13:51, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I noticed it!Edit

Nice reference, thanks. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
17:51, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Participation in a signpost interview for WikiProject RedirectEdit

Hi Certes, hope that you're well. I was wondering if you'd be able to participate in a Signpost interview in your capacity as a contributor to WikiProject Redirect? I am enthusiastic about these interviews because they help remind other Wikipedians about the passionate and diverse group of volunteers that edit Wikipedia, and into the many discussions and editors that inhabit our space, nooks and crannies. If you had time to even answer a few questions here (User:Tom (LT)/sandbox/WikiProject redirects interview draft) I'd be very grateful :). Tom (LT) (talk) 04:46, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Tom (LT): Thanks for thinking of me. I'm a keen Signpost reader and look forward to reading the piece. However, I only occasionally work with redirects, so I might not make the best interviewee. By the way, replying naively to your message messes up variables such as "Hi {{{editor}}}". I managed to reply by replacing my entire talk page with {{subst:User talk:Certes}} plus my reply. Certes (talk) 10:31, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Silly me, I just needed to subst your template. Certes (talk) 10:34, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, I was completely unaware of that unintended mistake :P. Tom (LT) (talk) 23:34, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


Consul is linked over 1000 times. A cursory look indicates most are probably correct, but some should link to Consul (representative). MB 16:27, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

@MB: I've fixed about 400 of them (including one for Consul, Saskatchewan) and am monitoring for new links daily, but please let me know if you find any I've missed. Certes (talk) 22:09, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Wow. I had no idea so many were wrong. I fixed the one that led me to this. In that case, have you considered if the dab should be at the basename. Page views doesn't show a clear PT, and if nearly have the links are to the diplomatic title, the dab may be a better target. MB 22:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Consul can be viewed as a BCA: like a dab but with all entries having something in common (types of leader). Links to BCAs don't appear on reports such as Disambiguation pages with links. They're one of several types of link target which fall through the cracks for WikiProject Bluelink patrol to deal with. Others include set indices such as Ministry of Defence (usually Ministry of Defence (United Kingdom) but occasionally India etc.) and articles where the "encyclopaedic" primary topic is not what many readers and editors think of first (Apple vs Apple Inc., Model vs Model (person), etc.) Certes (talk) 22:50, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
This may be the first time I have seen a BCA and a DAB. If I find something like this again, would you prefer that I put it at the Bluelink project instead? MB 23:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
It's a bit of a mess; we should normally have either a BCA or a dab. (I usually lean towards dab.) Dealing with such cases isn't really anyone's responsibility, which is why they often don't get dealt with. Although new, WP:BPAT is probably as good a place as anywhere to report them. It's debatable whether links to the BCA are "wrong" – they're about one of the subtopics it covers – but I think many are capable of improvement. A more diligent editor might have diverted most of the remaining links to Roman consul. Certes (talk) 23:42, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Ford Consul, anyone? BCAs/SIAs should give readers a sensible selection of related topics to choose from. MB, gud catch. Narky Blert (talk) 21:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
For the consul using a ford, see Battle of Tigranocerta. Certes (talk) 22:41, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Ford Consul and Prefect, but no Imperator, Dictator, Tribune or Quaestor. Odd. Narky Blert (talk) 18:01, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Whoop, there it is...Edit

Somewhere out on that horizon
Out beyond the neon lights
I know there must be something better
But there's nowhere else in sight
It's survival in the city
When you live from day to day
City streets don't have much pity
When you're down, that's where you'll stay

In the City

Check out the new Portal:Cities. It's curated now. Improve at will if you're into it. Cheers, North America1000 03:55, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Quick thanks re Open MediaEdit

Just to say, thanks for correcting my mistake with the disambiguation page. I didn't know that rule but it makes sense. Was just trying to help redirect people who contact us thinking they are going to reach the Liverpool firm. AnOpenMedium (talk) 13:14, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I understand that you're editing in good faith and not connected to (or here to plug) the Liverpool firm. It's tempting to add the entry, but it doesn't seem major enough to qualify for Advertising agency#List of advertising agencies and, after all, Wikipedia is not a directory. Certes (talk) 13:29, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Plurals of common nounsEdit

Borders and Highlands are currently at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 8, and the !voting traffic is so far all one way. It might be a propitious time for you to collect the Plurals you monitor and nominate them as well (perhaps over a few days). I suspect you may have the figures to back such nominations up. (Is there such a thing as reverse WP:CANVASSing? You can probably guess which way I'd !vote.) Narky Blert (talk) 16:45, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure I can make a great case for any of them. [[The Carpenters|Carpenters]] is more commonly linked than [[carpenters]], but most unlinked mentions are about woodworkers. WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 May 19#Eagles failed to gain consensus, despite it also having sporting uses. We tried other sports teams such as WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 June 7#Ospreys without success. Other sporting ambiguities include Angels, Barbarians, Bears, Border Reivers, Broncos, Buccaneers, Canadiens, Cavaliers, Cheetahs, Coyotes, Crusaders, Dolphins, Dragons, Ducks, Falcons‎, Flames, Griquas, Hawks, Hornets, Hurricanes, Jaguars, Jays, Leopards, Lions, Pelicans, Penguins, Pirates, Predators, Rockets, Rockies, Saints, Saracens, Sharks, Stars, Tigers, Twins, Warriors, Wasps and Wolves. Do you think any are particularly likely to gain support? Certes (talk) 00:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
All yield silly results, but Saints stands out to me as being ambiguous both sides of The Pond in major sports, and stars because of the acting/sporting use. Once the open discussions have run their course, there will be recent precedent. Narky Blert (talk) 08:07, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

RM on QCEdit

You may want to comment at Talk:QC (disambiguation). Have you ever fixed bluelinks to QC? MB 17:52, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

I've never fixed bluelinks to QC. From a quick glance, they're all correct, mostly of the form Sir Hangham Flogham QC was a lawyer. Thanks for the pointer to a tricky RM. Queen's Counsel gets 800 views a day and doesn't seem a PT amongst rivals but that just confirms that Quebec is a popular topic, not how many readers refer to it as "QC". I'm leaning towards Support but will see if any compelling evidence appears in the next few days. Certes (talk) 19:11, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 25Edit

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Note to stalkers: changed from the clearly incorrect Rutland, England, in the hope that someone else will be able to improve the links further. Certes (talk) 11:36, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

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See previous section. Certes (talk) 11:43, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I need your help can you review the article I created for Joaquin Domagoso.Edit

Good day, I would have asked for help because someone proposed a deletion in the article I created, he said no because he is the mayor's son, this is not a basis to say that he is an actor and he doesn't have any significant roles on television. I also have a list of shows and series that he voted for me not to be deleted and someone also helped, I hope you can help me thank you. --7starunited (talk) 13:36, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't help with this one. I've never heard of Domagoso and I am not an expert on notability. Certes (talk) 13:40, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

AWB - LinuxEdit

Hey Certes! I'm sure you remember me. I'm still grateful you helped me set up AWB on my Linux PC, been using it everyday since then. Now that I've regained a bit of security with it though, I had a question I've been wanting to make since day one:

I don't know if that's supposed to happen to everyone but for me, AWB runs with a couple of errors. Like, setting the changes made as part of the summary is always set ON and I can't remove it (there isn't even a checkbox to begin with), the main screen showcasing changes being done freezes, the page-queue freezes "changing" (even though it does accept your commands), etc. It's still usable pretty good but I was wondering if those problems too can be solved with a couple of updates.

Considering what we did the last time, the things that can be updated are:

  1. wine;
  2. winetricks;
  3. dotnet;
  4. AWB;

Now, I've already made sure to update AWB to the latest version. Do you think updating any of the said components can make any change on that? Maybe you have the same problems? I tried using winetricks to "update" the dotnet version by writing "winetricks" on the terminal and using the GUI to select the latest version (dotnet62, if I'm not wrong) but it wouldn't let me select it because it said that it conflicted with my current version. Then I tried dotnet61, dotnet6... and so on but I always got the same answer. Apparently I needed to remove the current version if I wanted to get any other higher version but given that I wasn't sure that that would be the correct way to go about updating it, I didn't go any further and decided to ask here. As for wine and winetricks I didn't try. So, any advice? Also, even if they won't be helpful in my situation, what would be the correct and easiest way to update the 3 components listed above? Any GUI way? Thank you for any help you can provide! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:13, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm happy to record the changes and I don't know a way to remove them from the edit summary. You could ask a specific question and see if anyone else responds at WT:AWB. Sometimes a page takes a while to load or save, and the screen does freeze. I agree that it's good but not perfect; I'm not sure how much of this is due to AWB and how much to Linux and Wine. Try wine --version. Versions 4.0.3 to 5.0.3 inclusive work well; other versions may also work but I've not tested them. The version of winetricks is not important. You need dotnet45, which also installs dotnet40. dotnet62 doesn't work and other version probably don't work either. The AWB version is shown when it starts. I use but other versions should work. Hope that helps, Certes (talk) 12:24, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
I always get version 4.0 for Wine.
I tried updating and upgrading it (and everything else basically) but I always get the same results as shown here.
AWB is updated so if we remove our attention from winetricks and dotnet, wine is all there's left. But you're telling me we have the same problems so I believe there's nothing wrong per se. I'm just curious as to why I get that behavior when I try to update wine. - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
That's probably because wine has been "kept back". I've not had this problem myself but it's discussed here. Certes (talk) 13:06, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Followed the instructions. Here's what I get.
U Bë → done (Albanian)
Varet → depends (Albanian) - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:27, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I've not seen this problem myself and don't know anything about it beyond the link above. Maybe try WP:VPT? Certes (talk) 13:30, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Yeap, I will. Thank you! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:39, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Vine Hill-Pacheco, California for deletionEdit


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A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Teamwork Barnstar
You helped me so much with that one little suggestion on linking to subsections (or is it just called "sections") of an article. THANK YOU Certes! Th78blue (They/Them/Theirs • talk) 20:41, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Th78blue and you're welcome. We usually call the headings starting with two "=" sections and those with 3+ "=" subsections. Article#section works for either. Further details: WP:ANCHOR. Certes (talk) 20:56, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

"This user tries to do the right thing. If they make a mistake, please let them know."Edit

What is the userbox text for this? I'd like to add it to my user page. I too, try to do the right thing.  ... but sometimes fail. Th78blue (They/Them/Theirs • talk) 20:46, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

It's the cryptically named {{User oops}}. (I learnt a lot by using the "Edit" tab to look at a page's wikitext, even when I didn't intend to change or save it.) People here are usually very forgiving of others who try to do the right thing, especially if they're willing to communicate. Certes (talk) 20:55, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

If you have some spare time...Edit

How you been doing Certes? Well, I've been trying to get the flex columns to work on Portal:Philately, which I have been working on, specifically using left-wide and right narrow flex columns, using the following markup, which works on everything else:

{{Flex columns |flex1=3|




<!-- END COLUMNS -->

Just can't get it to work on the portal. I have checked subpages for stray </div> markup, etc., but can't get it to work.

There are other portals that I can't get the Flex columns to work on either: 1) Transport, 2) Bangladesh, 3) Nepal, 4) Covid-19 and 5) Energy.

If you get bored, perhaps you could be of assistance. Cheers, North America1000 07:13, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

@Northamerica1000: I've had a go at Philately. Is that what you were hoping for? The hard part was identifying the matching /div tags to remove. Certes (talk) 13:23, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
(My edit has now been reverted; link above is to the old version containing the change.) Certes (talk) 15:41, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks very much Certes. Yes, that's what I was looking for. Oh well, another user (Ww2censor) didn't like it, and so it goes. This is not intended to disparage, but the notion of having portal maintainers for various portals who rarely work on them, or only work on them less than once a year with a single edit in between, is rather impractical. I feel that this is quite below the threshold of what a "maintainer" should be defined as. Those that actively update portals on a regular basis should be declared as maintainers, but less than one edit a year; it's a stretch at best. It reminds me of the WP:OWNERSHIP problem in some manners. I don't feel particularly eager to get into a long discussion debating using flex columns or not in the portal with Ww2censor, but if they change their mind, I would be all right with that. I think it makes the layout look much cleaner, and the addition scrolling required is actually quite minimal. North America1000 17:48, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
P.S. The portal received rather low page views, because it needs more links to it in main namespace articles. I have added some, but many more are needed to make readers aware that the portal even exists. North America1000 17:51, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

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...is a broad-concept topic, eh? Ha ha. Well, if you want, check out the new Portal:World. One would think this is a broad topic, or could it be that The World Is Not Enough? Cheers, North America1000 08:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Well done. I wonder if Portal:Earth should redirect there now. I've delisted a few protected area articles which didn't display properly for various reasons. It's unfortunate that the banner proudly displays a huge Greenland front and centre whilst relegating the south to the scrollbar, but I don't think we can do much about that. (|croptop= doesn't help much here.) Certes (talk) 13:40, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Short reply: I noticed that with some of the protected areas, and thank you kindly for your assistance. It would be great if the portal image banner centered images from the start, both horizontally and vertically, so the center of the image is right in the middle. No opinion yet about changing the Earth portal redirect. More later... North America1000 15:42, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Regarding the redirect, yeah, why not? It's a bit of a close call, as both are great, highly relevant redirect targets, but I've ultimately boldly redirected the link to the new World portal (diff). North America1000 12:32, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
– Plus, for all of November 2021, the redirect page received a grand total of 23 page views, so it's a bit moot anyway, perhaps. North America1000 12:32, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

BPAT questionEdit

Are piped links within the realm of the project? I found an article with a link to Astronomy that displayed as Astronomer, when we have an article on Astronomer, so that is obviously the better target. There are probably others, but with almost 70k links to Astronomer, it would be impractical to check them and the improvement to the project is probably not worth the effort. Still, I thought I would mention it. This is certainly a reason to NOT pipe and use redirects which can later be turned into article. MB 03:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes; I don't see why piped links would be excluded. There seem to be 328 of them, so an AWB run may be in order. Certes (talk) 12:17, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
@MB: I've fixed some of those and will continue later if no one objects. I expect other science occupations will have similar opportunities for improvement. We get the occasional enthusiastic new editor who specialises in bypassing redirects – some may even be matching socks – and this is a poster child for why they shouldn't. Certes (talk) 20:23, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm sure you have seen that I added two more at BPAT; ones that I have seen in piped redirects in actual articles. I too suspect there are more of these. MB 20:57, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

New message from Northamerica1000Edit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Portal § Removal of the box. North America1000 10:03, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Technical Barnstar
Your work to square away recent portal matters is truly greatly appreciated. This important work will enable literally billions of mobile readers to now be able to see portal links in articles. There is some technical work that I'm not versed in, such as modules, and your assistance has been vital in improving the encyclopedia and enabling mobile readers to have a more diversified and complete reading experience. Much thanks to you. North America1000 13:01, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Nav pop-up toolEdit

You may be interested in Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups#Dab page detection. MB 15:18, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

RDAB speedy proposalEdit

Hello, Certes! If you are so inclined, you might want to use your reasoning at RfD for a proposal at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion. If you are not so inclined, I would be happy to do it instead. Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 00:11, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@Bison X: I would support such a proposal but I'm afraid it would probably fail. It's a perennial request; I think the most recent attempt was Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion/Archive 77#Proposed new CSD criterion: R5, for redirects with malformed or misspelled (disambiguation) qualifiers. Some editors felt that such redirects can already be speedily deleted per G6; others opposed an amendment extending G6 to cover them. Certes (talk) 10:49, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

() Hello again, Certes! Due to a sticky letter "e" on my keyboard, yada yada yada, there is an RfC on redirect typos regarding R3. You might want to keep an eye on it & see if there is a good time to slip in language about "(disambiguation)." Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 15:30, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Wishing you a happy 2022! Happy holidaysEdit

Happy New Year!
Have a great 2022 and thanks for your continued contributions to Wikipedia.

   – Background color is Very Peri (#6868ab), Pantone's 2022 Color of the year

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2022}} to user talk pages.

North America1000 16:28, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Portal cats againEdit

Something else changed recently, and now "{{portal bar}}" (that is with no parameters) is being flagged in Category:Portal templates with all redlinked portals. Nothing wrong with that. But something in {{Year category header}} is assuming that there are portals for every category where it is used, but there aren't. Category:Portal templates with all redlinked portals has a couple right now, but it has just started to fill up. I think there will be many eventually. Category:1960s displays Portal:1960s, but Category:1970s does not display Portal:1970s. Note that 1960s exists while 1970s is a redirect to Portal:Modern history. That's what I have figured out so far. MB 03:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

@MB: There are two issues here. Firstly, more pages are being flagged. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing; Hike395 may be able to shed light on the recent changes. Secondly, Module:FindYDCportal#L-21 hard-codes a list of portals rather than checking whether they actually exist. Portal:1970s isn't listed there, perhaps because it's a redirect, so {{Year category header}} doesn't know about it. Similarly, redirect Portal:2020s isn't listed, which may explain why so many 2022 pages are flagged. Certes (talk) 12:25, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
@MB: There was a bug in {{Portal bar}} (and {{Portal}} and similar) where the tracking was not on by default. I recently fixed that bug: I think this is a good thing in general, because it gives editors information they can act on. For this case, I would set |tracking=0, because generating a missing portal is not useful for editors of {{Year category header}}. I'll make the change. — hike395 (talk) 13:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 10Edit

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of European saints, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Katarzyna Ostrogska.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:56, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

I've no idea which person this is. Help from a TPS would be welcome. (Maybe adding a dn tag should exempt us from the reminder?) Certes (talk) 10:42, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

a "family" matter??Edit

Oh, dear! You've spotted an embarrassing faux pas in some of the categories I've created. I've been linking families to human relation ones, rather than the taxonomic ones I obviously meant. I'm afraid I might have done that dozens of times. Uporządnicki (talk) 18:36, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@AzseicsoK: No problem! So many editors make these links that we have a whole project dedicated to fixing them. Many taxonomic ranks need a qualifier, usually "(biology)", but the most commonly mislinked articles are family and tribe. A few terms used in specialised areas of biology, such as aperture (mollusc), also get mislinked. (Gastropods seem to be exceptionally well covered by Wikipedia.) Certes (talk) 19:19, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Linux helpEdit

Hello, Certes! You've helped me some time ago with my Linux problems in regard to AWB. I'm having some rather major problems now and not knowing where else to go (and considering you to be more informed in regard to Linux than myself), I thought I'd give it a try here. I deleted the /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory. (I can provide background information why I did that if it is needed.) I tried recreating it and giving the needed permissions (mkdir + chmod) but I believe it has left some persistent problems. Lately I tried installing 2 packages (unrelated to each other) and I couldn't do it.

  • sudo apt install trash-cli returns E: Unable to locate package trash-cli
  • sudo apt install php7.2-cli returns E: Unable to locate package php7.2-cli

I've tried re-deleting that directory and recreating it many times now (currently is still deleted) and running sudo apt update thinking it would solve the problem but...

Do you have any advice to offer whatsoever? What should I ultimately do with that directory? Should I recreate it manually with mkdir? Do you think the problems are related to that event or maybe it is just a coincidence? I worry that I won't be able to install any new package whatsoever in the future. :/ - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:01, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Klein Muçi: I don't know: I've not seen that problem before. All I can suggest is restoring /etc/apt/sources.list.d from a backup, if you have one, but that will probably bring back the issues you were trying to solve in the first place. Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing may have a specialist who can help further. Certes (talk) 12:31, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
I believe it was a rather hurried decision overall. I was following instructions from here to install docker and I was having some problems with duplicated lines from there. I deleted the directory altogether not fearing much because that laptop is almost factory mode except for the AWB which you helped me install. I thought I could always recreate it if needed. Eventually I was able to complete the instructions there but I started having these other problems. And no, unfortunately I don't have a backup (at least, not one that I know of) because, as I said, the computer is rather blank. But thank you for the link! I had totally forgotten that place. I'll try there. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Second opinionEdit

A RM discussion at Talk:Deira (disambiguation) closed as No Consensus. By the numbers, it was 3/2. Where would you have been on this one? MB 02:31, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@MB: A close call, so I'd probably have left it to other editors even if I'd known about it. Starting from scratch I'd make Deira a dab, but I'm more pro-dab than most editors and leaving the status quo is not unreasonable. Certes (talk) 12:38, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
I was thinking of asking for a relisting given the minimal participation, but maybe I will try a new discussion in a year or more. Until then, this is a candidate for BPAT to monitor (I think I fixed the current mis-links). MB 15:13, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

New message from MreatwashackedEdit

Hello, Certes. You have new messages at 2601:647:6512:44D7:504C:2BFE:363B:BDF5's talk page.
Message added 00:21, 2 February 2022 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mr Eat (talk) 00:21, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

March 2022Edit

  Hi Certes. I noticed you left a message on my talk page. I would like to inform you that for any talk page, if you wish to contact the User, you must start another thread. This can be done by typing pressing "New Section" and then typing in a subject line, then typing in your message.(User:Telefocus > New Section) Intervening in other threads is never okay and is frowned upon, especially when you are not affiliated with either person. As I mentioned previously, however, this can be interpreted to sockpuppetry, meatpuppetry or even a targeted attack due to the fact there is a likely possibility the intervening user is a sockpuppet account created by one of the users to intimidate the other into submission. Evidence is that the intervening user has "no affiliation" with either parties, so must have been created by one of them to appear as an outsider. Even if they are not a sockpuppet, it would most likely be a targeted attack be the user, asking the intervening user to intervene. Regardless, please make sure that you start a new thread and do not interrupt others that you have no affiliation with. Thank you, Telefocus (talk) 18:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

(Talk page watcher) I'd start a new thread here if it was actually a requirement to do so whenever contacting a user, but it's not a policy or guideline whatsoever, so instead, I just indented this message here. Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines has nothing about the notion of "intervening" in other threads never being okay, and has nothing about affiliation with a user being a requirement to communicate within an existing thread. Cheers, North America1000 16:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
(Another talk page watcher) Intervening in other threads is never okay[citation needed] and is frowned upon[by whom?]Austronesier (talk) 19:22, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
(Another user who has their own guidelines for their talk page.)It's a notice, I'm not starting a talk thread... What is it with some Wikipedians going straight to an argument? I was giving him my policy for my talk page, not yours, or any other Users for that matter. Telefocus (talk) 17:09, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
The guidelines for all user talk pages can be found at Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#User talk pages and related pages. Certes (talk) 00:39, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
My guidelines, such as you do for asking people to respond on their talk page if you talk to them on theirs and Vice-versa, can be found here. Telefocus (talk) 04:21, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Seervi JatEdit

Hi, was this an error or were you looking to do something else? I moved the article because it didn't need a disambiguation. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 16:14, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

@CambridgeBayWeather: Oops. I opened the article to fix a link (Pali here is the district rather than the language), but it moved whilst I was editing it. It looks as if I accidentally saved my edited version over the top of the redirect that was created whilst I was editing, effectively doing a copy-paste move. I'm surprised I didn't get an edit conflict. Thanks for spotting the error and fixing the redirect. Certes (talk) 18:40, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
No worries. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 18:46, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Your edit to Wikipedia:Edit filter/RequestedEdit

Question: did you intend to remove DVdm's typo fix (refrerence -> reference) and remove Tercer's comment here? Cheers Adakiko (talk) 12:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

@Adakiko: No. I've reinstated them. Thanks for pointing this out. I should have got an edit conflict notification. A similar thing happened a few days ago; something may be broken with the edit conflict system. I'll raise the matter at WP:VPT. Certes (talk) 12:18, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of “Donald Pevsner”Edit

My entry certainly looks “too long”. However, I would bet that my life deeds are a good bit more “worthy” than yours. For example, I left out the fact that I was a syndicated newspaper columnist with over 15 million Sunday readers.

Who appointed you personally to determine who is “worthy” or not, anyway? Please send me the Wikipedia guidelines, if any exist.

Thank you. (talk) 14:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

To keep the conversation together, I have replied on the talk page of your other IP address. I neither claimed to be worthy nor suggested that you are not. I simply pointed out that the edit I reverted firstly was in the wrong place and secondly failed to provide the evidence of notability required for a Wikipedia entry. (I don't have or merit an article either.) Certes (talk) 22:50, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Malankara Syrian Orthodox ChurchEdit

Hi @Certes: You had recently edited the article Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church. Please intervene in the dispute going on in Talk: Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church#What is happening here?. Thank you. Jude Didimus (talk) 05:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

@Jude Didimus: Sorry, I don't know enough about the topic to help with that discussion. I simply corrected a typo. Certes (talk) 11:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, but it would be very helpful if you look into the discussion and evaluate it.Jude Didimus (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 11:31, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Cyrtophleba and CyrtophloebaEdit

Can you explain the reasoning to restoring the misspelt genus Cyrtophleba please? On page 207 of Rondani (1856) Dipterologiae Italicae Prodromus. Vol: I it is Cyrtophloeba. This has precedence over the spelling of 1857 Dipterologiae Italicae Prodromus. Vol: II. repeated by Vimmer & Soukup 1940 and subsequent authors. See O’Hara, James E.; Shannon, J. Henderson; D. Monty, Wood (5 March 2020). "World Checklist of the Tachinidae" (PDF). Tachinidae Resources page 137. If you are using Systema Dipterorum as a reference, the spellings will be corrected on the next update. Simuliid talk 12:46, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Simuliid: Ref 1 seems to be the only source for the Cyrtophloeba spelling. Ref 2 Ref 3 Ref 4 Ref 6 and Ref 7 all use Cyrtophleba. (Ref 5 doesn't show me either spelling, even in archive.) The titles and text of all species articles (Cyrtophleba coquilletti, Cyrtophleba horrida, Cyrtophleba nitida) use Cyrtophleba consistently, as do their refs. If we still want to move the genus article, it needs a proper page move to retain the attribution, rather than cutting and pasting over the redirect, and we need to consider moving the species articles and changing their content to be consistent. Certes (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
…and Template:Taxonomy/Cyrtophleba needs to be moved, then we should fix the spelling in it and a few articles. (Voriini is my fault). Certes (talk) 14:44, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, all valid points. I have better citations now to support the Cyrtophloeba spelling, and I have personal comms from James O’Hara, the leading expert on Tachinidae with support and advice on the spelling. Not that I can use "pers coms" on Wikipedia, and rightly so! The original author's spelling has to take precedence over any subsequent spelling, in this case Camillo Róndani. However, he also misspelt it in the same and subsequent publications, adding to the confusion. ICZN rule are the first name has precedence, always, regardless.
Yes, the other sources all use Cyrtophleba, as do very many other papers. Some indexes are not that up to date or reliable, especially ITIS, with old taxonomy, misspellings, synonyms listed as valid etc.
Thank you for querying my edits. And you raise very valid points like updates of the species pages, I had planned to do that a day or two latter. But most of all, you had me explore this in more detail, and have me question my own changes. Always a good thing. When I do update, I will add a section on the naming confusion.
However, I had wanted to move the page. But, I couldn't do that as the page was already occupied by the redirect, Wikipedia blocked that. Hence, the copy and paste change. Unless you know a way to do this? Simuliid talk 20:43, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
@Simuliid: Thanks for investigating. If you're certain that Cyrtophleba is an incorrect spelling then the best way forward is to file a request for an uncontroversial move at RMTR. If you're less sure then I'd raise a RM in the usual way and let other experts have their say. Moving the species is no problem as the targets are redlinks. Template:Taxonomy/Cyrtophloeba already exists but, if you copy-pasted it from Template:Taxonomy/Cyrtophleba, it would be better to file a RMTR for that too so we can keep the attribution| from the original template. Hope that helps, Certes (talk) 20:50, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Get Enough (disambiguation)Edit


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A tag has been placed on Get Enough (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
  • disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
  • is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, please delete. The redirect was a {{R to disambiguation page}} but its target is no longer a dab. Certes (talk) 10:27, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Happy April 1Edit

Don't open this!
What the?!

Happy April Fool's Day! Thanks for your contributions to improve the dissemination of free knowledge to humanity! North America1000 15:07, 1 April 2022 (UTC)


Just found this page; (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) from yesterday might be them (similar ISP and geolocation as some ranges used). Or have they gone dormant in recent times? wizzito | say hello! 19:35, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's my vandal! They're almost dormant, but that's probably due to edit filters. Thanks for the report. I find it incredible that someone could remain so interested in the same kids' TV for seven years – don't kids grow up nowadays? Certes (talk) 21:14, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
If you want to know about a similar vandal, WP:LTA/TFD has been at it since 2010 replacing people's names with cast members from Australian kids' TV shows. I'll add the pages listed to my watchlist and see if anything else comes up in the future. wizzito | say hello! 14:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Yes, a similar pattern, though clearly different people as each edits from a consistent place on different continents. Mine is into PAW Patrol. Certes (talk) 15:19, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
The latest edit on Summer Forever seems to be namedropping some child and old western actors, while talking about a middle and high school in Mississippi and some Arab countries? wizzito | say hello! 15:46, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Oh dear, they've moved on from old westerns. That'll make them harder to spot, as the child actors were actually alive at the time of these alleged performances. A private edit filter blocks certain text, but the vandal seems to have found new incorrect information to add. I don't see any other obviously wrong articles, but I'll update my regular off-wiki check to look for the new favourites. Thanks for the tip. Certes (talk) 17:00, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed layout changesEdit

Thank you for comments on the Desktop "Improvements", esp the evil fixed-width.

You are right: the WMF should used its funds on something useful, rather than waste them on this great leap backwards. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)


Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Clarifying scope of non-disruptive statements of opinion on internal Wikipedia policies and guidelines --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 17:33, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:S-line/TJM left/6Edit

 Template:S-line/TJM left/6 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 23:10, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:S-line/TJM right/6Edit

 Template:S-line/TJM right/6 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 23:11, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


Thanks for cleaning up after me here -- and apologies to @Bruce1ee: for the errant revert. --JBL (talk) 00:44, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'm an inclusionist but not all of the many new number facts seem relevant or important enough to belong in the articles. Certes (talk) 01:03, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Recent editingEdit

Sorry about that Cwater1 (talk) 02:14, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Please block this account alreadyEdit

Please block (NOT BAN) this account from editing. For at least a few months (if you even can). Please. It is much more effective than following it. (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I've replied to the longer thread at User talk: Certes (talk) 18:03, 2 June 2022 (UTC)


I've noted that User:Ggijj554 made a not-constructive edit and I've reverted also your edit for mistake. The user aforementioned also put a file representing a lock also used when the page become semi-protected, but your edit left it there. Now is fixed. ZandDev (msg) 17:59, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

@ZandDev: Thanks, I see what happened there. I should have checked for a removed SD before making a new one up – all GAs now have one. Certes (talk) 18:01, 14 June 2022 (UTC)


The source for the species list at Tetragnatha seems to use "Macronesia" in the first sense of the Wiktionary entry. Certainly its reference for the species covers only Australasia in a broad sense (i.e. including the South Pacific), and definitely not Macaronesia. So I'm not quite sure what the best solution is: "Macronesia" is sourced, but not a term that is currently clear. Peter coxhead (talk) 21:00, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Peter coxhead: Thanks for investigating. Yes, it looks like a verbatim quote from WSC, which is all I could find too. My guess was Micronesia but I agree that it looks more like sense 1 from Wiktionary: rare, but not an error. I copied your fix to List of Tetragnathidae species.
I wonder if we should retarget redirect Macronesia. I fixed about 10 cases which were clear typos for Macaronesia, but it seems to have legitimate use too. Another way to deal with such things is a "source looks dodgy" footnote as in Raoiella indica, but I don't think that's appropriate here. Certes (talk) 22:25, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Sesamehoneytart makes a relevant point in an edit to List of Tetragnathidae species. I'm not a subject expert but can the three of us agree on the most accurate location for both articles? Certes (talk) 09:37, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Both Macaronesia and Micronesia are distinct, different places of similar standing with the exception that one is much more widely known than the other. As far as it being a "rare" term, maybe it is in general, but within the context of spider wikipedia articles, it's not really rare at all. I'm curious about these typos (and whether they are actually typos) because that's a common random spellcheck edit (in good faith, of course) that I have to revert in the ten bazillion orphan spider articles I'm currently watching. That said, the World Spider Catalog- originally sourced in this example- is technically a secondary source, so when there is conflicting information like this, I am much more inclined to believe the primary source. Sesamehoneytart 18:36, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
@Sesamehoneytart: I've not changed any text which read "Macaronesia" or "Micronesia". If any editor has confused the two then I've made no attempt to find or fix such errors. I only reviewed articles mentioning "Macronesia", which Wiktionary claims is rare and I tend to agree. Some were clearly correct: mainly citations of New Cossidae (Lepidoptera) from Asia, Africa and Macronesia and plot summaries for seaQuest DSV which uses a fictional location called Macronesia. About ten were clearly typos for Macaronesia, so I fixed them. A typical example is Sempervivoideae, where the source (Messerschmid) clearly refers to Macaronesia (Azores etc.) rather than Macronesia (Australia) or Micronesia (south Pacific). None of the ten concerned spiders. I suspected an error in the two spider articles mentioned here but was not confident enough to boldly change it, so I asked for help with a {{clarify}} tag. Certes (talk) 19:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Your changes are all good- I didn't mean that as an accusation to you in particular; what I meant is that "Macaronesia" is rare in the same way that "pedipalp" is rare- it may be rare in general, but within the context of biogeographical publications, it's the accepted/expected term. For example this and this. Don't be afraid to be bold; all help in good faith is welcome, and there's nothing you can do that can't be fixed. I've made plenty of mistakes myself on 500+ consecutive article edits. Good faith mistakes are still better than ones like this. If this clown can be bold, you can be too :-) Sesamehoneytart 11:14, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Thanks. Those citations are for Macaronesia which I agree isn't rare; it's only Macronesia (no A) which often seems to be a typo. I enjoyed the Metaverse spider: does it exist only on its web site? Certes (talk) 12:04, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of The Self-Titled Tour (disambiguation)Edit


If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on The Self-Titled Tour (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
  • disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
  • is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:59, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Help with restoring hijacked articlesEdit

User:BigChungoBungo has hijacked 9 articles, replacing them with the text from the page Odin. Since the edit filter thinks that I am blanking the articles, I have only been able to revert two of their edits. Could you please help? (talk) 22:22, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Some have already been fixed; I've done the rest. Thanks for the report. Certes (talk) 22:29, 21 July 2022 (UTC)


Hey Certes. I just realized we were on third person's talk page and I've been warned before about that.

Just wanted to add that when I started looking at the edit histories of some of the pages this person has targeted, the story seems to get longer very quickly. Many IP addresses, many more targets. I'm real-life busy this week so I'm not interested in tracking down all these IPs, but it is concerning. The addition of death dates were glaring (I reverted some myself earlier this week) and that behavior is probably worthy of block-on-sight just on their own, but those are easily caught and reverted. Whether a celeb is alive or dead can be easily confirmed or refuted within seconds. The time zone tinkerings are more concerning in a way because as you've already said, it's hard to tell if there's anything to the changes, or complete nonsense, or something in between. --DB1729 (talk) 23:27, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

@DB1729: The US plans to change DST but plans haven't taken effect yet, don't seem finalised, and would result in permanent DST (rather than no DST as implied by the edits I looked at, which concerned Canada anyway). With no edit summaries and no response to talk page messages, it's hard to know whether this is vandalism, incompetence or important information that we've missed (but still needs a source). IP hopping would tend to suggest vandalism. Certes (talk) 23:38, 21 July 2022 (UTC)


Hey, I see you reverted my edit to Limerick. I don't think the revert was warranted as articles on other Irish cities do not use the prefix "Republic of" and WP:IRE-IRL only requires the distinction where the island of Ireland or Northern Ireland is being discussed in the same context. Cashew.wheel (talk) 15:01, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

The guideline does support the view that political correctness is more important than clarity, so if you want to change it back then I won't revert again. Certes (talk) 15:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
Thanks Cashew.wheel (talk) 15:48, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Removal of an editEdit

@Certes Hello sir, sorry i'm not very familiar with wiki, i just wanna know if it is you who removed the edit i came up with? if so, could you explain to me why? ive seen that wp:dubmantion which seems to lack in my edit but i don't know what it is. Thanks for the reply. Cur53d Jungl3r (talk) 21:52, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

@Cur53d Jungl3r: Yes, I reverted the edit. 727 is a disambiguation page which lists topics referred to by the term "727" covered on Wikipedia, such as the Boeing 727 airliner and the year AD 727. Osu! is not referred to as "727" – the number is not even mentioned in that article – and so Osu! should not be listed on the 727 page. Several other editors seem to have reached the same conclusion, as similar edits have been removed repeatedly. Certes (talk) 22:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Guido Chigi SaraciniEdit

Hi, Certes, Thanks for your edit seeking to clarify the use of the word "Madonna" in this article. I have just changed the text again slightly, not in purpose to override your edit, but because the "Lauda" written by Chigi Saracini to the "Madonna of Pancole" is clearly in praise of Our Lady of Providence herself, as worshipped at her sanctuary in Pancole, and not in praise of any one particular image. As I find there is an article on O.L.o.P., it seems better to link to that. Hope you approve... best wishes, Eebahgum (talk) 08:55, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

@Eebahgum: You're welcome. I'm not a subject expert and I agree that the link I made could be improved further; I just wanted a target that wasn't the pop star! It's a common confusion: a recent RM tried to clarify things by using a dab, and we have a whole project devoted to making similar improvements. Certes (talk) 09:57, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Haha! I see. I had overlooked that dimension! Thanks, Eebahgum (talk) 11:54, 10 August 2022 (UTC)