Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ) (see also: Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical)
Click "[show]" next to each point to see more details.
If something looks wrong, purge the server's cache, then bypass your browser's cache.
This tends to solve most issues, including improper display of images, user-preferences not loading, and old versions of pages being shown.
No, we will not use JavaScript to set focus on the search box.
This would interfere with usability, accessibility, keyboard navigation and standard forms. See task 3864. There is an accesskey property on it (default to accesskey="f" in English). Logged-in users can enable the "Focus the cursor in the search bar on loading the Main Page" gadget in their preferences.
No, we will not add a spell-checker, or spell-checking bot.
You can use a web browser such as Firefox, which has a spell checker.
If you have problems making your fancy signature work, check Wikipedia:How to fix your signature.
If you changed to another skin and cannot change back, use this link.
Alternatively, you can press Tab until the "Save" button is highlighted, and press Enter. Using Mozilla Firefox also seems to solve the problem.
If an image thumbnail is not showing, try purging its image description page.
If the image is from Wikimedia Commons, you might have to purge there too. If it doesn't work, try again before doing anything else. Some ad blockers, proxies, or firewalls block URLs containing /ad/ or ending in common executable suffixes. This can cause some images or articles to not appear.
For server or network status, please see Wikimedia Metrics. If you cannot reach Wikipedia services see Reporting a connectivity issue
« Archives, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192


Upside-down historyEdit

When I go to see the earliest history it's upside-down, with the earliest at the top. DuncanHill (talk) 18:34, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]

  • That's the intended behaviour of &dir=prev, I believe. Black Kite (talk) 18:37, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    So how do I stop it doing that as it's never done it before and I never asked it to? DuncanHill (talk) 18:40, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    (edit conflict) Then it's changed. That query option would normally display oldest at bottom, and if there was a &offset= option, that would be the bottom of the list and the 50 (or whatever is set by &limit=) edits newer than that would be displayed. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:42, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    And look at the first edit, −1,771 bytes. How is that possible? DuncanHill (talk) 19:05, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    (edit conflict) It's subtracting the size for one line from the size for the line above, as normal, But because they're now in reverse order, this means that the newer file size is subtracted from the older, instead of the other way around: the reported change should be +1,771 bytes. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:09, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    Clicking on "older 50" on the history page gives me 4 edits! DuncanHill (talk) 19:07, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    I think it's comparing the size to the last edit displayed on that page, the same if you click the "prev" diff link. Definitely not the desired behaviour, being tracked at phab:T292791. the wub "?!" 19:09, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    Yeah, that's definitely broken. Black Kite (talk) 16:54, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[]
  • Yes, just noticed, this is quite broken. Going to the oldest history, the history is upside down, which would be fine, but the initial edit has a functioning "prev" link and byte diff, which compares it to the last item on the previous page of newer history. Or something. Very confusing.  Nixinova T  C   01:11, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[]
  • Came here to report the same thing. For me, if I go to a history page, the first page is fine (newest revisions at top). If I click on "older 50", the next page still has the results in the same order. If I click on "oldest", the oldest 50 revisions are shown, still with the newest of those 50 at the top. Any time I click on "newer 50", the results are reversed, with the oldest at the top, and the diff links and bytes changed are incorrect (they're not referring to the previous or next edit but seemingly to a random edit - I haven't figured out the pattern yet). Clicking "older 50" or "newest" will then bring up a page with results in the correct order. Hoping it gets fixed soon. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 23:01, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    Size change is 0 for the middle row (call this row n). Size change for row n+k is its page size minus that of row n-k. For example, if the version six rows above the middle is 9123 bytes and that six rows below the middle only 9000 bytes, we get (+123) on the former and (-123) on the latter. Uses for this novel statistic are not immediately obvious. Certes (talk) 00:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Well, incorrect size changes doesn't matter that much, what matter is that the "prev." version difference became useless - compare what is shown for changes in edits "added category" (when only category is added) in normal and reversed order.
This makes the reversed list entirely useless. MarMi wiki (talk) 13:33, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Seems to be fixed now.  Nixinova T  C   04:59, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
This got fixed yesterday. the wub "?!" 08:19, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Scan for malicious external linksEdit

I just today corrected the official website of Atrium Health Navicent Peach. The lapsed domain had been captured by malicious actors. How come there isn't a bot that scans for this? Is there but did it not scan a link that had previously been ok? 1Veertje (talk) 10:39, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@1Veertje: do you mean to check whether we have a bot/code in place that checks whether a domain that is used has changed owner while sitting on a Wikipedia page? And then do that for every single external link throughout Wikipedia on a regular basis. I do not think we have that, and that would be rather server intensive for a rather low hitrate (domain ownership changes do not happen that often). --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:43, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]
No, check if a domain is a known vector for virusses/malware. Services like StopBadware help with that and should be responsible thing any big website does. 1Veertje (talk) 10:50, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]
No, that is not something that is done systematically (not even at time of addition). I could probably make m:user:LiWa3 scan webpages at addition time against this website (or Google's blacklist) and provide alerting for it, but that does not help a lot (as it more often happens that websites get hacked or repurposed later while they are already available on Wikipedia).
It would therefore likely make more sense to have a database scan that checks whether sites on such lists appear on Wikipedia and make reports on that on a regular basis. Dirk Beetstra T C 11:03, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]
The externallinks table already indexes all external links on WP, so can't you use that? – SD0001 (talk) 13:37, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@SD0001: m:User:LiWa3 is working of the current feed of edits as, next to plain documenting, it also tries to catch ongoing spamming and is feeding user:XLinkBot. It does some scans for typical spam checks at addition time of the link (stopforumspam is one, trying to catch some typical spammer tags is another), I could add checks against google's blacklist and other websites like StopBadware there as well (IF those website allow the hammering by a bot, which not all allow). It might catch some malicious websites at addition time and would then throw an alert on IRC for that.
What 1Veertje wants indeed should run from the externallinks table, probably by making a database of all domains with certain data (that should not be too hard by running a proper query on the table) and go through selected data and scans for listing of already existing links on the database. Dirk Beetstra T C 05:31, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Would indeed be nice. I created a ticket for this, even though I don't expect this to be picked up any time soon. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:37, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]

If you come across a hijacked domain (spammers, hackers etc) report it to WP:URLREQ where it can be usurpified by bot ie. |url-status=usurped and some other things. -- GreenC 14:43, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Tech News: 2021-41Edit

15:28, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the "auto-number headings" preference, see also Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 190#Tech News: 2021-26. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

slow pages saves waiting for intake-analytics.wikimedia.orgEdit

Anyone else having intermittent problems saving pages today, with timeouts "waiting for intake-analytics.wikimedia.org"? — xaosflux Talk 18:16, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[]

If you are using adblock or blocking third party cookies that could happen. There is a bug for an third party cookies issue, although it is not an save issue, at bug T262996. There is also another issue I can think of that could impact it, it is entirely an adblock issue, I am going to save that one for later.--Snævar (talk) 18:02, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]

InputBoxes positionEdit

Hello! Is it possible to choose the position of input boxes? So they don't appear like this but in a structured manner, say for example, 2 aligned on one side, 2 aligned on the other side and 1 in the middle?

I read the documentation many times but couldn't find any helpful information in regard to that. - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:47, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]

You will need to make a template and use TemplateStyles for that, probably using display: flex or display: grid (floating the boxes might work but it won't be as easy I suspect). Most MediaWiki-supported browsers work with display flex; display grid is a little patchier but still most browsers that MW supports. Izno (talk) 02:02, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Izno, yeah thought that that would be the only way. I was hoping to find a wrapper template already here and only deal with the customization but {{Inputbox}} doesn't seem to offer that kind of functionality yet, does it? (Although it does offer some quite... nice... documentation...) - Klein Muçi (talk) 04:14, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
CSS Flexible Box Layout Module Level 1 is at the Candidate Recommendation stage, and CSS Grid Layout Module Level 1 is at the Candidate Recommendation Draft stage. This means that they are still not finalised, and shouldn't be relied upon. They are at least out of the Working Draft stage, which means that they're being taken seriously and the chances of being abandoned (as a Working Group Note) are fairly low. See the W3C Recommendation Track: if they make it through to Proposed Recommendation there should then be a good chance that they'll eventually reach W3C Recommendation, at which point virtually all browsers current at the time will support these features. But it can take years. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Defacto, flexbox is supported 99.9% by browsers we deliver content to and grid is supported 94%. I've used flexbox in dozens of templates over the last year. And we even use grid somewhere as an experiment (with some basic fallbacks) and no one seems to have noticed yet. The status of the documents doesn't matter. These are all living standards now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
^. Flexbox and grid aren't going anywhere. Izno (talk) 12:05, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]

wikimedia projects linkEdit

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris new mediawiki computer browser interface update has new language bar so maybe it should point to wikiquote and wikinews etc as well their are the only one that is left in the left menu they could be in subject bar/authority control/unified template but top has better visibility bi (talk) 14:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@Baratiiman: the "in other projects" relationship is already active on the frwiki page. Are you having some problems here on enwiki? If your technical issue is only on frwiki, you may want to ask at w:fr:Wikipédia:Questions_techniques. — xaosflux Talk 14:42, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@SGrabarczuk (WMF), I think this feedback is for you. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:44, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
It is. Thanks, we'll look into it. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:41, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Language variablesEdit

We have received a question in the Incubator about how to translate language names for #language. I have tried to search for such messages on translatewiki.net to no avail, but they are probably there somewhere.

Here is the original message:

{{#language:ary|zgh}} gives Moroccan Arabic instead of ⵜⴰⵄⵕⴰⴱⵜ ⵜⴰⵎⵖⵔⵉⴱⵉⵜ, and {{#language:he|zgh}} gives Taɛebrit instead of ⵜⴰⵄⵉⴱⵔⵉⵜ, same thing for some other language names are untranslated or translated incorrectly. How can this be fixed? And where?--Brahim-essaidi (talk) 18:30, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Could someone point us in the right direction? - Xbspiro (talk) 00:25, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@Xbspiro: may want to try at mw:Extension talk:CLDR - from what I can tell we only copy the CLDR data from further upstream (likely from [1]) so you may need to make sure the data is good there first. — xaosflux Talk 01:05, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Thank you. (It seems that the data we were looking for is here.) - Xbspiro (talk) 01:54, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xbspiro: see the instructions at translatewiki:CLDR#Localised_language_names. Legoktm (talk) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Contributions/edits without a tag?Edit

Hi. On the contributions page you can type in tags and just see edits with those tags. Is there a way to do the opposite and see my contributions that don't have certain tags? DemonDays64 (talk) 01:36, 13 October 2021 (UTC) (please ping on reply)[]

not yet ;) - that is feature request phab:T119072 if you would like to follow it. — xaosflux Talk 09:52, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Until that bug gets fixed, Demon can ask for an query to be run to get the results he wanted, at Wikipedia:Request a query.--Snævar (talk) 12:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Edit filter links at UAAEdit

Good day. I noticed something yesterday at WP:UAA. There used to be a list of commonly-used edit filter links between the page header and the bot-reported names section, but now they're gone. I found those very handy, so I am just curious as to what happened to them. Thanks. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 06:40, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Looks like they were removed by Taking Out The Trash. --rchard2scout (talk) 06:51, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
I've reverted, but have reworded it to put the two public filters first, per TOTT's reasonable concern. I don't believe we have EFH/EFM equivalents of sysop-show. If we were to make those, we could make it even smoother by just wrapping the private ones in those three classes. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 07:39, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
I've created the EFH/EFM user group classes and wrapped the private filters with the appropriate classes. MusikAnimal talk 18:23, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

User:Lowercase sigmabot III down, usage of a deprecated featureEdit

This bot has not run since October 7, per User talk:Σ#Lowercase sigmabot III seems down. All the noticeboards appear to use the same bot. User:Legoktm believes the failure may be due to mw:MediaWiki 1.37/Deprecation of legacy API token parameters which was implemented on October 7. It appears that User:ClueBot III went down briefly for the same reason but was quickly repaired. Other data can be seen at Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard#General query. There is a table that shows which bots are up or down at Wikipedia:Bot activity monitor#Current status report. I hope that a solution can be found soon for archiving the noticeboards. I am archiving WP:AN3 by hand for the moment. EdJohnston (talk) 15:30, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

WD linkEdit

WD link doesn't works anymore? I can't find it also in preferences. Eurohunter (talk) 18:55, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@Eurohunter: You mean inline links to Wikidata, like wikidata:Q42 or d:Q42? Or something else? -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 20:05, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Tamzin: No WD link enables links to WD item at every Wikipedia page under the name. Eurohunter (talk) 21:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Eurohunter: Like d:User:Yair rand/WikidataInfo.js? That's what I use. I don't see anything like that in User:Eurohunter/common.js. There's also a built-in "Wikidata item" link under "Tools" in the sidebar. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 21:24, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
d:User:Yair rand/WikidataInfo.js is loaded in meta:User:Eurohunter/global.js. I don't know why it fails for you. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@PrimeHunter: I don't know neither I didn't changed anything. Eurohunter (talk) 10:33, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Does it work at other wikis, e.g. simple:Example? If it does then try blanking User:Eurohunter/common.js. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:31, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@PrimeHunter: I did but it still doesn't works in ENWP and SimpleWP and it works elsewhere. Eurohunter (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Search indexEdit

Hello, is there a problem with the generation of the search index. I am getting articles that were changed at 11:34 this morning still appearing in search results. An example is List of current National Football League head coaches where the date error was fixed this morning but is still showing in the search results. Regards. Keith D (talk) 21:12, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@Keith D: can you tell us more? What are the steps you are following, what is the result, what is the expected result? Please note, if your step is to leave wikipedia and use someone else's search engine they may simply be behind in their own updates. — xaosflux Talk 23:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xaosflux: just using the normal wikipedia search

"CS1 errors: dates" insource:/[a-z]*[\-]*date *\= *[A-Z][a-z]* [0-9]*[\.\,\ ][0-9]/

This still finds the date error which was corrected by the last edit to the article this morning.
Keith D (talk) 23:45, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Keith D: think it may have just been a bit slow, is this working as you expect now? — xaosflux Talk 13:37, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xaosflux: that particular one has now cleared but it is not working as expected. Edward M. Kopko was modified at 20:53 yesterday but still is reported in the search

"CS1 errors: dates" insource:/[a-z]*[\-]*date *\= *0[0-9] /

though the edit should have removed it from the search results. It must be a general problem as Commons searches are similarly not clearing when categories are changed. Keith D (talk) 16:53, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xaosflux: thanks. I have added a Commons example to the ticket. Keith D (talk) 17:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]

WP 1.0 bot assessment tool downEdit

It looks like the WP 1.0 bot responsible for updating assessment data is down due to a mediawiki deprecation. The tool has been central to WikiProject work for awhile now. I am not sure how/who to raise the alarm.

it looks like the number or broken bots/tools will grow significantly

Technical question.Edit

Hi. Where do you find the name of the user who created an article before the article was merged or split? I don't see it anywhere on the page statistics. If a page is merged, do both users get credit? If a page is split, does the original page creator still get credit on subsequent split pages? LearnMore (talk) 13:36, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@LearnMore: in general mergers are either done with- or without- technical history merges. If with, the oldest contributor would be listed as just that - the oldest contributor. If without, attribution is generally provided by a link in the edit summary or the talk page. In general splits do not split the revision history - a new page is just started which should reference the prior page for attribution. Of special note, every contributor to any page are equally considered authors, being the "original page creator" doesn't have any special privilege. — xaosflux Talk 13:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Follow-on, as far as citing a Wikipedia page elsewhere, here is an example of how to cite a random page (citing Sara Cwynar) - notice the use of Wikipedia contributors as the author line. — xaosflux Talk 13:45, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xaosflux:Thank you very much for your quick response. The reason I asked is that the statistics page does cite the name of the user who created the page which I think is a nice gesture. Since it is there anyway, I think it should be accurate and truly give credit to the person, or persons, who deserve it. Thank you for your time. Have a nice day. LearnMore (talk) 14:15, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@LearnMore: currently that is derived from the history, there has been some low-priority tasks to think about this more, and you are welcome to contribute at tasks such as phab:T44135. — xaosflux Talk 14:34, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xaosflux:Thank you. And thanks for all you do for Wikipedia! LearnMore (talk) 16:45, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Can't add delsort categories to AfD nominationEdit

I've done many of these before, but for some reason, I've been unable to add the relevant delsort catgories to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Little Longer (they should be "Albums and songs" and "Music"). I've tried using the automatic adder, I've tried adding them manually, and nothing seems to work. And of course without the delsort listings, the AfD doesn't show up anywhere for discussion. Have I missed something? Richard3120 (talk) 20:59, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@Richard3120: it looks like you did in: Special:PermaLink/1049916455. Can you be more specific about what you expected to happen, but didn't? — xaosflux Talk 21:08, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
It looks like the actual "categories" are coming from Template:REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD. — xaosflux Talk 21:08, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Xaosflux: Well, underneath the nomination it should say "Note: This discussion has been included in the list of XXXX-related deletion discussions", and the nomination should then show up in the specific AfD deletion sorting pages: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Albums and songs and Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music. Neither of those things happened. Richard3120 (talk) 21:13, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Richard3120: in the permalink I posted above, it exactly says Note: This discussion has been included in... twice. As far those sort pages, those are not categories - they are just listings and are updated by a bot, AnomieBOT. Perhaps it is just a bit backlogged? — xaosflux Talk 21:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Yes, I did wait for exactly that reason... the pages have since updated, and my nomination hasn't appeared. And I still couldn't see the discussion notices, which is why I reverted them because they didn't appear on my screen, either on my laptop or on my mobile phone, so I had no way of knowing whether they had been added or not. It still doesn't explain why, if I had indeed added them, they hadn't appeared on the deletion discussion pages. Richard3120 (talk) 21:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Richard3120: it appears you are using a personal userscript, User:Fox Wilson/delsort.js - notably the author has been away for 4 years, perhaps it isn't working. Try disabling it. — xaosflux Talk 21:20, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Yes, that's the reason I reverted and then tried to re-add them manually using {{subst:delsort|<topic>|<signature>}}, but that didn't work either. Richard3120 (talk) 21:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
You have to manually transclude entries to pages like Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Albums and songs. All AnomieBOT does is remove discussions that are closed. * Pppery * it has begun... 21:40, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Well, I've never had to do that before. Possibly that automatic script no longer works. But the manual addition as stated above didn't show up for me either. I'll try again. Thanks anyway, both of you. Richard3120 (talk) 21:50, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Richard3120: it appears that some other editors are using User:Enterprisey/delsort which appears to be more recently maintained, perhaps you could try using that one instead of the one you are using now. — xaosflux Talk 22:39, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Yes, I would be surprised if Fox Wilson's script is still functional. Enterprisey's definitely is. Izno (talk) 23:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Just a questionEdit

Is it possible to run a "what links here" search for two, or more, pages simultaneously so that with one click you can see results for both? If so, will you please publish the code in example so I can use it? Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 01:27, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

@John Cline: You can use WP:PETSCAN (direct link to PetScan).
  • Leave the "Categories" tab alone
  • At the "Page properties" tab select the namespaces that you want to be searched within
  • At the "Templates&links" tab locate the "Links to" row, and the "All of these pages" box. In that, add your page names one per line
  • Click Do it!. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:41, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
    Thank you Redrose64, I'm headed that way. Best regards.--John Cline (talk) 09:59, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
If you want pages linking to both (intersection) rather than to either (union), a Cirrus search linksto:Page linksto:"Other page" on the desired namespaces may do the job. Certes (talk) 12:20, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Script for standardizing reference code?Edit

Is there any user script that standardizes the spacing and date formats within citations? (I know it's a cosmetic edit, but for a few articles I'm trying to perfect it'd be nice.) {{u|Sdkb}}talk 07:51, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

WP:ProveIt has a "normalize everything" option. Not sure if that fixes the date formats though. – SD0001 (talk) 08:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Thanks! Combining that and WP:MOSNUMscript for the dates, I was able to get things standardized. I'm not sure if some of the decisions ProveIt makes, like capitalizing "Cite web", are actually the norm, but at least they're consistent now. At some point, we should probably decide what we want our reference-adding tools to do so that we don't end up with some much variation in the code just from people using different tools. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}}talk 08:59, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Mapframe formatEdit

(crossposted from WP:HD) How does one localize the red sign in a mapframe? I've added one at Cumbre Vieja tsunami hazard but the coordinates are waaaay off. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:27, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Try reordering the values to "coordinates": [-17.50,28.34]. Does that help? — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 08:42, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Apparently, the coordinates entity expects longitude, latitude, although the examples for <mapframe> at mw:Help:Extension:Kartographer#<mapframe>_usage seem to all use the latitude=37.8013 longitude=-122.3988 order. I think you need to swap your values. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 08:50, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Yeah, that worked. Thanks. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:05, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

How can I get rid of this "Start a discussion about [page name]" prompt?Edit

For the last few days, each time I go to a red talk page I am greeted with this annoying prompt. I mean, it friendly for the new editors, ok, but for an old hand like me who visits dozens of new pages a day to stick assessment tags on them, it's an annoying extra click. I don't see any 'don't show it again' option or such. I'll repeat that I don't like to complain about new QoL improvements for newbies and in general, this looks nice but please give us a way to disable this for those of us whose QoL is lowered, not raised, but this. I am not sure how to file a bug report or such about this, so VT colleagues, help :) Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:13, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

You can't without opting out altogether of discussion tools in your preferences. I've already made the same point but no solution offered except "live with it". Nthep (talk) 09:44, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
The prompt seems to only appear when the URL includes &redlink=1, so a stupid way to circumvent it would be to just remove that parameter from talk page redlinks:
$('[href*="talk:" i][href*="redlink=1"]').each(function() {
  this.href = this.href.replace("&redlink=1", "");
});
Add to your common.js and enjoy. – Rummskartoffel 10:59, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Yes you can. Preferences -> Editing -> Discussion pages -> "Enable quick topic adding". Unchecking this will also get rid of the redlink prompt. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:59, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@TheDJ: thank you, is that "Enable quick topic adding" option only related to that banner on redlink pages or is that also going to turn off something else? — xaosflux Talk 13:21, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
It will turn off the "New discussion" tool, of which banner is a part. – SD0001 (talk) 13:49, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@SD0001: ah OK, it doesn't just "show you an inline form for adding new topics" - it also hijacks the newsection and newpage editors. — xaosflux Talk 13:54, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Hint left at MediaWiki:Discussiontools-preference-newtopictool-help. — xaosflux Talk 13:56, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Or do what I did. Go to Preferences → Beta features and make sure that "Discussion tools" is turned off. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:19, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Bullseye grant proposalEdit

Good afternoon all, I have submitted a Rapid Grant proposal for bullseye, a tool I have been working on to consolidate detailed information about IP addresses into a single view. It is primarily targeted at checkusers and stewards, but is usable by all editors. At the suggestion of one of the grant coordinators, I am informing potentially interested communities about this proposal. I welcome any and all feedback on the proposal. Best, GeneralNotability (talk) 17:06, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

WikidataCon 2021Edit

Hi all. I'm posting here as a co-curator of the 'Sister projects' track for WikidataCon 2021, which will take place online on 29-31 October 2021. The conference website is at [2].

Integration with Wikidata is a controversial topic here, and we would like to talk about both the pros and cons of Wikidata integration with the other Wikimedia projects during this conference. Whether you like Wikidata or not, please consider submitting a session proposal to explore the issues that you are most interested in.

You can find information about how to submit a session proposal at [3], and you can access the submission form at [4]. Please submit a session proposal through the Pretalx process so that we can review and schedule it appropriately - and make sure to mark it as a 'Sister projects' track proposal. Please note that we cannot accept a session outside of the Pretalx process. We also encourage you to submit talks to other tracks if you are interested!

Note that the deadline for submitting proposals is the 20th October - sorry for the short notice! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:46, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Redlink to existing pageEdit

Hello! I'm seeing something rather peculiar. In Special:PageHistory/Template:COVID-19 data/data, there are links to User:TolBot/Task 5, a soft redirect to Meta-Wiki, in my bot's edit summaries — but, despite the page existing, the links are red. When I click on a diff, the link is blue, and anywhere outside of an edit summary it's also blue. I've tried with safemode, so I don't think it's me. Can anybody else verify this or help me figure out what's going on? Thanks. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 21:57, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]

I see the link in the most recent edit as blue, and the others as red. Moving to the previous 100, all are blue. Filtering by date to exclude today's two changes, all are blue. It looks like a minor bug. Certes (talk) 22:17, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
I only see one "Task 5" blue link at the history of Template:COVID-19 data/data. It is the most recent. The reason it is blue is that the wikitext is [[m:User:TolBot/Task 5|Task 5]] whereas the others omit m:. I tried to purge the history page but of course it only purged the template and that did not help. Weird. I don't see how it's related, but I asked about a red link problem here. Johnuniq (talk) 22:44, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[]
There was recently an overhaul of how edit summaries ("comments") are formatted on history pages, this might be another regression from that. I would suggest filing a bug in Phabricator for this, as the output clearly is wrong given User:TolBot/Task 5 exists on this wiki. Legoktm (talk) 05:50, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
And notably on other pages, such as the changevisibility controls page, the show as blue links. So looks like a bug of sorts on the history view page. — xaosflux Talk 15:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Deal with bare URLs to filesEdit

Hi there! I've been working on expanding bare URLs in references recently. However, there have been lots of URLs that point to an external file (PDF, image, etc.), where automatic reference generating cannot work normally to grab information such as titles. Then what can I do to expand those references? Maybe, upload the original files? Or something else? -- UNITE TOGETHER, STRIVE FOR SURVIVAL! 02:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

wrong sort by coordinates in class "wikitable sortable" tableEdit

This is how the table should like after the first click on the "Coordinates" column: coordinates must increase from the Northern Pole to the Southern. (The second click on each column displays the reverse order; if you tried to click anything here, return to the default view via refreshing screen with F5).

Meteorological hardware on Mars
Landing order Mission Coordinates From To sols Device Zone
6 Phoenix 68°13′08″N 125°44′57″W / 68.2188°N 125.7492°W / 68.2188; -125.7492 25.05.2008 28.10.2008 152 MET subarctic
1 Viking-2 47°38′N 225°43′W / 47.64°N 225.71°W / 47.64; -225.71 04.09.1976 12.04.1980 1281 (NASA) moderate
10 Zhurong 25°06′N 109°54′E / 25.1°N 109.9°E / 25.1; 109.9 22.05.2021 144 MCS moderate
2 Viking-1 22°16′N 312°03′E / 22.27°N 312.05°E / 22.27; 312.05 20.07.1976 11.11.1982 2243 (NASA) moderate
3 Pathfinder 19°7′48″N 33°13′12″W / 19.13000°N 33.22000°W / 19.13000; -33.22000 04.07.1997 27.09.1997 83 ASI/MET subtropical
9 Perseverance 18°26′41″N 77°27′03″E / 18.4447°N 77.4508°E / 18.4447; 77.4508 18.02.2021 241 MEDA subtropical
8 InSight 4°30′09″N 135°37′24″E / 4.5024°N 135.6234°E / 4.5024; 135.6234 26.11.2018 1028 TWINS equatorial
5 Opportunity 1°56′46″S 354°28′24″E / 1.9462°S 354.4734°E / -1.9462; 354.4734 25.01.2004 10.06.2018 5110 solar panel equatorial
7 Curiosity 4°35′22″S 137°26′30″E / 4.5895°S 137.4417°E / -4.5895; 137.4417 06.08.2012 3269 REMS equatorial
4 Spirit 14°34′06″S 175°28′21″E / 14.5684°S 175.472636°E / -14.5684; 175.472636 04.01.2004 01.05.2009 1892 solar panel subtropical

However, now the sort engine of "wikitable sortable" treats the contents of cells with the {{coord|47.64|...}} template either as plain figures with a float decimal or as string constants. It brings the whole idea of sorting by coordinates to an absurd, because southern and nothern latitudes are mixed disregarding the value of the hemisphere parameter (N or S)

Foreseeing the questions like 'why latitude not longitude':
sorting by longitude (E or W) doesn't arise in the tables with geographic, climatic, astronomic etc. material. However the necessity to sort by latitude arises often when the readers to group the table contents. For these reasons I kindly ask the technicians to improve the "wikitable sortable" engine with a patch providing the accurate sorting by latitude (given the values are properly put into the "{{coord|...|...}}" template).

Programmatically this patch is short and easy:
- if the parser encounters the {{coord|...|...}} template in the cell =>
=> then it must search for additional hemisphere criteria (|N| or |S| enclosed in the straight brackets) =>
=> if the hemisphere is "S", the numeric key used for sorting does not change;
while if it equals "N", then the value must be converted to negative (multiply by –1).

Thank you in advance, Cherurbino (talk) 13:08, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

You may use data-sort-value="arbitrary value" to force a sort order if you are having issues, as in e.g. | data-sort-value="68.2188" | 68.2188 N X E or | data-sort-value="-68.2188" | 68.2188 S X W. Izno (talk) 13:19, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
thank you, but this code shall not work until the values inside the {{coord|...}} shall be converted into the numeric array from -90 (Northern Pole) to +90 (Southern Pole). This array should not be explicitly visible for the readers; it should be kept within the virtual code space Cherurbino (talk) 13:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Or, if the trick is in the | data-sort-value="-68.2188" | 68.2188 S X W clause, could you show it directly by editing my sample here (or in my sandbox)& Cherurbino (talk) 13:28, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Try that. --Izno (talk) 13:34, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Of course, you can be less precise if you have few enough values that you don't think any of them will sort wrongly. I would suggest you avoid trying to stuff the longitude into the data-sort-value in any way since several digits of precision of the latitude should be enough to separate all the values cleanly, but if you really want you could probably make it work out somehow. Izno (talk) 13:37, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
Keeping the manual opened)) I kept on trying with the header line in my sandbox. However the pipe (straight quote "|") in your argument "-68.2188" | 68.2188 S X W messed all my table. Now I see, your solution is in inserting this clause in each line of the table. Of course, it shall work - but only for one table, while there are hundreds of other tables with the "coords" templates. This is a palliative, while I seeked for the universal solution for everybody. Thank you, anyway, for your time and kind attention Cherurbino (talk) 14:00, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
A "universal" solution is probably not forthcoming. At least one dev I know has complained about the complexity of the code in this area. :^) Izno (talk) 14:54, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Could it be a good idea to amend the WP:TABLESORT help page with the sample for the coordinates' values? Cherurbino (talk) 14:08, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Instead of a bare pipe | try using the special five-character sequence {{!}}. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:54, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
The table sorter is client-side JavaScript. That means it cannot see the wikisource or the template-expanded wikitext. It can only see the HTML sent to your browser. In your example, {{coord|68.2188|N|125.7492|W|globe:Mars}} becomes:
<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r994658806">.mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}</style><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion"><a class="external text" href="//geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?pagename=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&params=68.2188_N_125.7492_W_globe:Mars"><span class="geo-nondefault"><span class="geo-dms" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location"><span class="latitude">68°13′08″N</span> <span class="longitude">125°44′57″W</span></span></span><span class="geo-multi-punct"> / </span><span class="geo-default"><span class="geo-dec" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location">68.2188°N 125.7492°W</span><span style="display:none"> / <span class="geo">68.2188; -125.7492</span></span></span></a></span>
That's the output of a specific template at a specific wiki. The table sorter is used by many wikis in many languages. I don't think it would be good use of developer time to try to make this work when it's only relevant for sortable columns of coordinates on both hemispheres. However, outputting a sortkey could be an optional feature of {{coord}}. Then there could also be a choice between North-South and West-East sorting. It can be suggested on the talk page. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:47, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Section numbers goneEdit

I use the default Vector skin. I used to get section numbers in the section headers as shown in the Table of Contents. For the last couple of days, they are gone. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:17, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Yes. See phab:T284921. If you really want it back, you can do so with some CSS+JS: mw:Snippets/Auto-number_headings. – SD0001 (talk) 15:20, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]
@Kautilya3: Also #Tech News: 2021-41 above, second bullet. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:33, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]

Discussion at Talk:List of screw drives § Images in Section HeadingsEdit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of screw drives § Images in Section Headings. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:32, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[]