Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ) (see also: Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical)
Click "[show]" next to each point to see more details.
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Technical Wishes: FileExporter and FileImporter become default features on all WikisEdit

Max Klemm (WMDE) 09:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

So @Max Klemm (WMDE): the documentation says Each wiki is responsible for their own configuration file - but it doesn't say where a community will control that, it is referencing files at mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data/en.wikipedia - which would be mainained by the mediawiki community? — xaosflux Talk 11:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Xaosflux:, I am not sure if I understand your question. Yes, mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data/en.wikipedia is the configuration page for en.wikipedia. For a configuration page to work it must be a subpage of mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data. If you want to discuss changes of the configuration file with the community, I would imagine doing it on the talk page of the configuration file. I hope this helps. -- For the Technical Wishes Team: Max Klemm (WMDE) (talk) 11:48, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
@Max Klemm (WMDE): with the pages not being actually on our project, we are subject to the editors of that project - the administrators of that project, vandals on that project etc. We won't know if they change (because we'd have to go visit a watchlist on another project), and won't be able to enforce project level governance. We wouldn't expect our editors to have to go follow a discussion on another project either. I'm actually surprised this isn't being controlled on commons - as the controls in that file are really about what commons will accept to their project. — xaosflux Talk 12:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Conceptually, we would normally expect mediawikiwiki to house documentation, not running configuration. — xaosflux Talk 13:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
I actually think this kind of configuration should be outside a wiki's daily control, but barring moving it entirely to source, Commons makes much more sense. Or even here. (I understand reticence to moving it here.) --Izno (talk) 15:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
@Izno: I'd think commons' mediawiki space would be ideal, possibly as a nice json page. — xaosflux Talk 15:52, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
MediaWiki space would be reasonable. --Izno (talk) 15:58, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Is there an easy undo? Arguing about local files is a chronic problem where good editors have reasons to keep files at enwiki. Trolls and misguided users with nothing else to do could quickly irritate a lot of content creators. Johnuniq (talk) 23:49, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Johnuniq, Deletion works just as well as for any other method of moving files to Commons. Just as a note though, {{Keep local}} only prevents the deletion of the local file. Files tagged with keep local for non-copyright reasons can and will be copied to Commons. This isn't really that different from when we linked CommonsHelper from {{move to commons}} (before it broke). --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 00:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Are you saying it's copy rather than "move files from your local wiki to Wikimedia Commons"? That makes sense since import certainly does not affect the source wiki. Johnuniq (talk) 04:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
From reading the documentation which doesn't clearly answer the question, it seems like the "user rights" subsection and the following section imply that the local file is not automatically deleted. One can tag it for deletion or an admin can delete it (and we already have a process and rules for doing that: WP:CSD#F8), but it's not an automatic consequence of importing.

Regarding the configuration, why it is not in the MediaWiki: namespace where extension configuration things usually go? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

@Max Klemm (WMDE): any feedback on the comments about why the config for this is on mediawiki wiki in normal pages? @Jo-Jo Eumerus: I think the "user rights" thing is a bit of hack to try to have the user have a non-trival account before uploading to commons? They don't need any special rights on the originating wiki to upload to commons after all. 90% of the work when this extension is used is on the commonswiki side. — xaosflux Talk 13:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Deletion reason being drawn from the wrong wikiEdit

I think that the deletion summary bit needs fixing. I did try it out at File:Green River Valley.jpg and File:Tree Kangaroos.jpg and the deletion summary does not reference WP:CSD#F8 at all. I did try to find the message but from checking MediaWiki:Fileimporter-delete-summary it looks like the enwiki deletion summary is being drawn from commons:MediaWiki:Fileimporter-delete-summary instead even if the deletion is on enwiki. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:16, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: The wikitext looks the same to me; it just uses the {{SITENAME}} magic word. Looking at the source ([1]), it's not clear to me which wiki the summary comes from. Perhaps a (very quick) experiment is in order? —Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 21:58, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
OK, let's try this. I've made MediaWiki:Fileimporter-delete-summary and will try out to move File:Screenshot 2020-08-11 Preferences - Wikipedia.png to Commons with deletion of the local copy. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 22:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Seems like it didn't use the enwiki summary. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 22:18, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Opened a phabricator thread about this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:16, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@Mdaniels5757: Note that the source file you linked is of FileImporter and that extension is not installed on this wiki but it's on Commons. That's why it's grabbing the message from there. To correctly fetch the enwiki's message (or any client wiki for that matter) it needs to be queried from the API just like how the remote deletion action is being achieved. – Ammarpad (talk)

Where should instruction pages for gadgets be?Edit

I assume this would be the right place to ask this: Since this script is in the "Browsing" section on the "Gadgets" tab of "Preferences", specifically the line that says:

Require confirmation before performing rollback on mobile devices (documentation)

...Wouldn't that make this page a gadget, and thus should be moved to the "Wikipedia:" namespace? (Pinging MusikAnimal, obviously.) Steel1943 (talk) 21:57, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Doesn't really matter. If MA is the one maintaining it, I don't see a reason that it can't be in their userspace. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 22:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
What I'm getting at is that from my knowledge, gadgets are not supposed to be in user space since they, in turn, are not available for the community to maintain and are exclusive to the user hosting the script ... making them just regular user scripts and not gadgets. From my perspective, the resolution here would to either move it as stated or remove it from the gadget menu. To compared, when XFDcloser became a gadget, the respective instruction page was moved from User:Evad37/XFDcloser to Wikipedia:XFDcloser. The current state of the User:MusikAnimal/confirmationRollback-mobile makes it seem something got skipped ... either there was no discussion about this script and it was added to the gadget menu ... something is not right. Steel1943 (talk) 22:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Everything looks proper to me. Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 135#Rollback confirmation was the discussion that made this a gadget hosted at VPT as prescribed with a clear consensus for this gadget. The code is also properly hosted in the MediaWiki namespace. I believe moving documentation to Wikipedia space is common, but not required so no actual issue here. --Trialpears (talk) 22:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
...That's interesting. But yes, it being "common" is why I see the issue. Steel1943 (talk) 22:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
initial announcement and discussion gadget creation. There's no requirement that gadgets even have documentation, let alone being picky about what namespace it's in. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 22:21, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
...That's bullocks, but it is what it is, even if it doesn't match precedence of the aforementioned situation. Steel1943 (talk) 22:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
@Steel1943: The gadget itself isn't in user space. It lives in MediaWiki space at MediaWiki:Gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile.js like all other gadgets. It's only the documentation that's in user space. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: I get that since it was the same scenario with XFDcloser, even before the instruction page was moved to the "Wikipedia:" namespace. I'm just wondering about, and concerned with, the fact that the placement of the instruction pages are not consistent ... since consistency can help readers locate what they are trying to find here ... Steel1943 (talk) 22:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess that is a good point now that I think about it some more. We probably should move the documentation then. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
I know we don't usually do this with pages in the "User:" namespace, but per the above, since this discussion is starting to go into WP:RM territory, I'll be placing a move request on User talk:MusikAnimal/confirmationRollback-mobile here in a few. Steel1943 (talk) 22:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Ugh! I just completed my RM request for the page, but then found that the {{Requested move}} template returns an error if it is set up to request moving a page in the "User" namespace. Grand. Either way, for the record, here was the rationale I stated for the move:

I do not know of any specific guideline that states the following, but I'm requesting the move for the following reason: In my experiences, most instruction page for gadgets listed in the "Gadgets" tab of the "Preferences" menu have their instruction pages moved out of the user namespace. And to me, this makes sense for the following reason: If a script's instruction page is in the "Wikipedia:" (or some other non-"User:" namespace), it is a gadget and thus the script can be freely edited and/or maintained by the community, whereas an instruction page in the "User:" namespace is a user script that is supposed to be only edited and maintained by the editor whose user page is the root page of the instruction page. For me, seeing this consistency helps me figure out if the script associated with an instruction page (and, in fact, the instruction page itself) can be modified by the community as a gadget, or restricted to the hosting editor themselves with it being a non-gadget user script. Compare this to what occurred with XFDcloser: At first, it represented a user script as a subpage of Evad37 at User:Evad37/XFDcloser, but once there was consensus to promote the respective user script to "gadget" status, the script and the instruction page were moved out of the "User:" namespace, with the script going to the "MediaWiki:" namespace, and the instruction/information page going to the "Wikipedia:" namespace.

...I suppose that I'll check with Wbm1058 to see if RMCD bot would be able to process a move request in the "User:" namespace properly (pinged them on purpose, of course), and then figure out what the next close of action would be. Steel1943 (talk) 23:09, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Why wouldn't you wait until the volunteer who spent a long time developing a gadget and its documentation has a chance to respond? Johnuniq (talk) 23:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Why couldn't they have the opportunity respond in a RM request if they aren't able to do so here in a timely manner? Also, this is more trying to establish a precedence for where gadgets' instruction pages should be, which is exclusive from the instruction page's and gadget's creator. I mean, let's say MusikAnimal says something like "No big deal, I'll move it to the "Wikipedia:" namespace"; that doesn't establish precedence or any form of consensus, and such a discussion to determine where gadgets' instruction pages should be located would happen again at a later time ... when I'm trying to have it now and nip it in the bud. Steel1943 (talk) 23:59, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Some people don't understand common courtesy and the rest of us have to tolerate it, although we don't have to remain silent. Johnuniq (talk) 00:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
I apologize, but I see your concern as apples and oranges per what I stated above. Sure, it would be nice if MusikAnimal responds on some manner to this, especially since it's a page in their user since, but it's not required per ... everything I have already said. Steel1943 (talk) 00:10, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
I'm not keen on the idea of this kind of infringement on a user's space. You don't really need to move the documentation; just copy it and give attribution if need be. This is out-of-scope for requested moves – we've already got a big enough backlog with the stuff that's in scope for me to want to add more stuff to it. – wbm1058 (talk) 00:19, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
@Wbm1058: Thanks for your response. I think at this point, I was more or less just seeing if it was technically possible ... and probably not trying to se if I'm actually going to do it or not, as this conversation is going ... Steel1943 (talk) 01:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello all! Apologies for the late reply. I was away from the computer all weekend. I have boldly removed the link to the documentation altogether. This is a very simple gadget that frankly doesn't require detailed explanation. The description says everything you need to know. The current documentation doesn't do much beyond claim ownership, advertise other related scripts I wrote, and explain how to install it in your common.js -- all things that I probably wouldn't put in the Wikipedia namespace documentation. Instead I've modified WP:ROLLBACK to make note of the gadget, and cleaned up the comments at MediaWiki:Gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile.js. I'm perfectly fine not having my name behind this gadget; it maybe took 15 minutes to write and there's not much involved for maintenance that any other JS-savvy editor couldn't fix. I hope this satisfies your concerns. Kind regards, MusikAnimal talk 20:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Admin highlighterEdit

Does anyone know of a reliable admin highlighting tool? I found User:Theopolisme/Scripts/adminhighlighter, but the {{subst:js| results in an error message at common.js, and I don't want to muck anything up. Also, shouldn't this be a Gadget? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:15, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: That error is just from the code editor, since it's for generic JavaScript and doesn't understand wiki markup. Once you save the page, the PST will replace it with valid JavaScript. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: Ahh, thanks for helping the technologically incompetent!   Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:20, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Not relevant if you're happy, but FYI there are a handful at Wikipedia:User scripts/List#Discussion-oriented. ~ Amory (utc) 00:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
[in infomercial voice] Sick of highlighters? Want to know when someone's a Checkuser, or a Steward, or an Arb, or or or or or? Try User:Mdaniels5757/markAdmins! The perfect solution to all of your wikiproblems! Void where prohibited. Performed on closed course. Some exclusions may apply.Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 22:30, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Rollback optionEdit

Is there an option to turn off and on rollback? I like the privilege of having it. Especially on reverting to another revision. It's useful. But on mobile devices (which I am stuck on for having only for now) it's been an embarrassing mine field ticking bomb lately. I accidentally rollback too much and I kind of panic and undo without explanation sometimes. So when I use mobile devices touch screen I need it off but temporarily if possible. Jhenderson 777 19:52, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Jhenderson777, You could try User:Mr. Stradivarius/gadgets/ConfirmRollback. Adam9007 (talk) 19:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jhenderson777: You can enable the confirmationRollback-mobile gadget (Require confirmation before performing rollback on mobile devices) in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets to get a warning before you use it on mobile. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Ok I will see what can be done. I just know the “no” button on confirming I want to rollback hardly ever works for me. Jhenderson 777 20:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
You may ask at WP:PERM/R to have the rollbacker right voluntarily revoked; and if you are judged to be in good standing they should reinstate it upon application. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:43, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
To have it revoked though due to a “no” button not doing what it should seems a bit harsh. Definitely when rollback been helpful to undo vandalism etc. Jhenderson 777 21:23, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jhenderson777: There's also User:MusikAnimal/rollbackTouch which hides the rollback link on mobile, rather than adding a confirmation. I haven't used it, so I don't know for sure if it works, but it's there. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 21:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Jhenderson777, the easiest way to at least hide the rollback link is to edit your common.css and add .mw-rollback-link { display:none } - it works for me on mobile Ed talk! 22:03, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Jhenderson777 Are you using the mobile site on mobile? Because I see no undo or rollback links there. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:45, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
In answer of the question. Not a big fan of using mobile version. When editing I try use desktop version when I can. Jhenderson 777 23:16, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

PC failureEdit

How did this edit get automatically accepted? The page is under WP:PC1, and the user isn't autoconfirmed yet. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:39, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

The user account was created at 19:56UTC on 4 August so when they made that edit the account was (just) over four days old and had the required number of edits to be pat of the pseudogroup 'autoconfirmed' which is what I understand PC1 checks against. Nthep (talk) 21:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Yep, looks like they were autoconfirmed to me too. 18:56 on August 4 to 19:52 on August 8 is 4 days and 56 minutes, and that was their 15th edit. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Given those edits, I'm not entirely sure why mine is the first warning on the user's talk page. Never mind that this smells of permission-gaming, socking, or both. --Izno (talk) 23:04, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
First? ClueBot NG had already served one, three hours before yours. I didn't escalate it because the edit that I rolled back was made just one minute after ClueBot's warning, so they may not have had a chance to read and understand it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Pie chart troublesEdit

Sample pie chart, using the sandbox of {{pie chart}}.

  White (34.8%)
  Hispanic (17.6%)
  Asian (16.4%)
  Black (9.8%)
  Native American (0.5%)
  Pacific Islander (0.4%)
  Two or more races (6.8%)
  International (11.2%)
  Unknown (3.6%)

Note: "Hispanic" refers to Hispanics of any race. All other categories refer to non-Hispanics.

I'm trying to do a few things with {{pie chart}}, but the documentation is lacking and the code is complex (a lot of it seems to be in some CSS sheet I can't find), so I'm running into issues. Apologies for the multi-pronged question here, but I'm having trouble with each of these:

  1. Adding tooltips: I think it would be a big (hopefully uncontroversial) improvement to the template if hovering the cursor over a slice of the pie would generate a tooltip with the label for that slice. I.e. in the chart at right, hovering over the light blue area would display "Asian (16.4%)". Would someone better at HTML than me be able to look into that at {{pie chart/slice}}?
  2. Changing box width: I'd like to increase the width of the box a little to give me more room for the caption/legend without using up multiple lines. There's a |style= parameter, but it's undocumented, and using the basic |style=width:300px isn't working. (|style=color:red did change the caption text color, so it's doing something.)
  3. Footer line breaks: In the chart at right, I'm using a parameter I added to the sandbox to display the footer about Hispanics. This is more subtle, but there's a small extra space below the footer that shouldn't be there, and I can't figure out how to get it to go away without doing this, which causes the footer to be squished up against the legend. Here's an example of that:
Extended content

Sample pie chart, using the second sandbox of {{pie chart}}. Note the squished space between the footer and legend but appropriate space below the legend.

  White (34.8%)
  Hispanic (17.6%)
  Asian (16.4%)
  Black (9.8%)
  Native American (0.5%)
  Pacific Islander (0.4%)
  Two or more races (6.8%)
  International (11.2%)
  Unknown (3.6%)
Note: "Hispanic" refers to Hispanics of any race. All other categories refer to non-Hispanics.

Could anyone help me with one or all of these things?

By the way, the template has over 3000 transclusions, so if there's not a reason it's being kept at semi-protection, it and {{pie chart/slice}} should probably be template-protected. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 04:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: IMO, semi-protection is about right for only 3000 transclusions. Anyway, I have some ideas on how to fix your 3 issues; I'm working on coding them now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 05:02, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
So I unsuccessfully tried to get tooltips working in the sandbox. If you hover over your first example now, you'll see tooltips, but they'll be mostly wrong. I think the best course of action is to replace that whole mess of CSS hacks with something based on mw:Extension:Graph. Jackmcbarn (talk) 05:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Here's a quick proof-of-concept to show that the extension is capable of doing that:
Jackmcbarn (talk) 06:18, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Sigh. Or not. It works in preview but not for real, unlike on :( Jackmcbarn (talk) 06:19, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Good news: I think once phab:T242855 is done, it'll actually work here, like it does on I guess this is on hold until that's done. Jackmcbarn (talk) 06:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Jackmcbarn, ack, well, thanks for trying. I noticed on the talk page that there is a template that creates a pie chart from mw:Extension:Graph, but it doesn't look very good—it just outputs an image file, I think, and the image file includes the legend, which presents accessibility and other issues. At mw:Extension:Graph#Charts examples, I notice that it's also able to change color when you hover over a section, which I would love (it doesn't really add much functionality, but it makes it feel a lot more interactive and 2010s rather than 2000s).
Were you or anyone else able to figure anything out regarding the other two issues? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 08:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@Sdkb: The "just outputs an image file" problem is what I think phab:T242855 will fix. I think I'll be able to fix your other two issues even in the existing template; I'll try to do that later today. Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:53, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@Sdkb: Okay, point 2 is fixed, both in the sandbox and live. You can now pass radius=150 to get what you want. Still working on point 3. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@Sdkb: And point 3 is fixed too in the sandbox, via Special:Diff/972030490. I think that's it until that Phabricator ticket gets resolved then; let me know if there's anything else I can do. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Jackmcbarn, looks beautiful; thanks so much! I implemented/documented the footer parameter as well. Having this template in better shape is going to be very useful for pretty much every demographics article on Wikipedia, most of which currently still use tables for ethnicity/other types of data. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 20:44, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

OpenStreetMap issueEdit

A reader has contacted OTRS through OTRS ticket # 2020072010003284 to advise of issues with OpenStreetMap, for instance here. They advise that they can see the location pins but that the map itself renders only as pink squares. They've provided the following element inspect. They're encountered the issue on Chrome, Firefox, and IE.

@Dvorapa and Para: - I believe you're the maintainers. Is there any advice we can provide to the reader?

[Report Only] Refused to load the script '' because it violates the following Content Security Policy directive: "default-src 'self' 'unsafe-eval' 'unsafe-inline' blob: data: filesystem: mediastream: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * wss://". Note that 'script-src-elem' was not explicitly set, so 'default-src' is used as a fallback.

Best, Darren-M talk 12:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Darren-M, I'm unsure about the pink squares, but I know the error you linked to above is related to mw:Requests_for_comment/Content-Security-Policy, and shouldn't cause any issues. Ed talk! 12:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
The above is not an error. It is only an informational warning ("[Report Only]"). It should be unrelated to pink squares. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 05:43, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Darren-M, that is a community maintained project. The pink squares mean that the tiles for the map could not be downloaded from the servers of OpenStreetMap (not sure why that tool doesn't use wikimedia maps...). The [Report only] thing is not related and not a concern. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:59, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
TheDJ, Thank you. If the report is a red herring, do we have further insight into why the map tiles can't be downloaded? Any known issues? Darren-M talk 19:40, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Darren-M, no. maybe his wifi was down, or maybe it was particularly busy with Openstreetmap or maybe they were just down, or maybe his country blocks openstreetmap. We just don't know, we don't track it and it's a non-essential non-WMF service so it is allowed to not be available. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:51, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

In Wikiversity certain combination of letters doesn't workEdit

Good morning,

when I wanted to include a note in my article and wrote <ref group="note"> the combination of p and = could not be written. It was replaced by different character. My browser is Microsoft Edge (new version). Thanks in advance. Chomsky (talk) 14:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

@Chomsky: I can't seem to duplicate your problem there, see v:User:Xaosflux/sandbox. This could be an input customization - what is your input language set to? If not English, could you try English? Are you using the source editor or the visual editor? — xaosflux Talk 15:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Some browser extensions/add-ons will convert certain text strings into an emoticon character, for example :) can become 🙂 - is there an emoticon represented by p=? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 . --Izno (talk) 17:56, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

I had to select "Use native keyboard" on the upper right corner of my editing window. Thank you. Chomsky (talk) 06:49, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Wrong history mergeEdit

A rejected draft's history has been merged into the history of an article I created. The creator of the draft appears to have created the autopatrolled article even though this is incorrect. The article is 2020–21 ŠK Slovan Bratislava season.--Sakiv (talk) 18:03, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

This may be easily fixable with the "unmerge" button at the merge log entry. If not, then the steps at WP:HISTSPLIT will be needed. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: I don't think it can be done easily. The other way is needed. Thanks--Sakiv (talk) 22:40, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

{{DISPLAYTITLE}} templateEdit

Hello, I tried to change the title of my own user page using template, But It didn't work out. But It works perfectly in bnwiki. I have learnt that there's an certain restriction for doing so in this wiki questioning here. I am wondering that this feature maybe disabled for mainspace article, why should it be disabled for userpages? Userpages are absolutely for users. Does it matter that the user have a different title for his userpage or not? If not please change it for only userpages. Thanks. A. Shohag (ping|Talk) 06:57, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

mw:Manual:$wgRestrictDisplayTitle cannot be customized by namespace. I also think customized signatures cause enough confusion about usernames. I wouldn't add to it by allowing false userpage names. PrimeHunter (talk) 07:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
ShohagS, "Does it matter that the user have a different title for his userpage or not?" Yes. it matters. Your username is your username. When people pretend it is something else, it is confusing for everyone else, and potentially can be used by bad actors to pretend they are someone they are actually not. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:59, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
  • You can change the display title of your user page, but only to alter the display formatting. The text itself cannot be changed. I have just changed my user page as a test. — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 08:25, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter:Alright people, you got plenty reason. My signature actually links to my userpage and part of my signature contains username. And one more thing, please don't take offence, If one can't find out the difference between an page title and url or the username, then I barely doubt that how could he understand the wiki codes! Thanks. A. Shohag (ping|Talk) 09:30, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@GhostInTheMachine, PrimeHunter, and TheDJ: In HTML, I can import custom css just by <link href="url">, but I am afraid that I don't know whats the code in wiki to do so here. Is there any code to import custom css and to apply them? Please notify me. A. Shohag (ping|Talk) 14:52, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@ShohagS: what are you trying to do with CSS? If you want to apply some CSS to some elements on your userpage, you can use templates and WP:TEMPLATESTYLES; or you can use in-element styling directly. In unrelated matters, it doesn't hurt anything, but making a link to Template:Ping in your signature doesn't really help anyone else. — xaosflux Talk 15:05, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: I actually learnt it here. I don't understand you, people. Some of you uses some and some says thats not good you shouldn't use it. Why? A. Shohag 15:11, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
And one more thing, WP:TEMPLATESTYLES shows error while linking an external css from my github. What about this? A. Shohag 15:17, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@ShohagS: mw:Extension:TemplateStyles requires "sanitized CSS" - in general, you can't load external CSS in to pages and make other people use it. You can customize your own personal CSS (e.g. User:ShohagS/common.css) - which only applies to you. Only certain site administrators can update broad CSS pages that load for others. — xaosflux Talk 15:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux:That doesn't do my work. I have even a css script on User:ShohagS/style.css and there's some customized tag with different fonts. Will you please tell me How can I import that on any wiki page and can use those tag accordingly? Thanks. A. Shohag 08:59, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Only User:ShohagS/common.css will load for you automatically, User:ShohagS/style.css won't ever load since there is nothing to call it. Your common css will load on every page you view. Try loading it up with more styles. Keep in mind, you can really only use it to style elements that exist - you can't add your own elements in to encyclopedia articles for example. — xaosflux Talk 11:29, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux:"you can't add your own elements in to encyclopedia articles for example". That's what I needed for this long. Its means that I can't call my own css anywhere else in wiki. But I can only change whenever it loads for me. Why? Maybe not to mainspaced articles but what the user pages? One wouldn't love to change his userpage? I don't truly don't understand you much. A. Shohag 11:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@ShohagS: you can use CSS to style existing elements (for yourself) in ways that will help you work on the encyclopedia better or make it more accessible to you, you can use css to help build things like templates that are useful for building the encyclopedia. You can't do things that will change the display for everyone else. See WP:USERPAGE for a description of what the goal of userpages are. You can use inline styling on your userpage elements - but there is nothing you can do that will force someone else to load a css, especially not an external one. — xaosflux Talk 12:24, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I think you made that pretty clear in your previous reply. Thanks. A. Shohag 12:32, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

A template is not rendering properlyEdit

There seems to be something wrong with how transclusions of Template:ITN candidate are not being rendered properly on the July 2020 archive of ITNC. The transclusions work properly until the subheader for the nomination of the Hagia Sophia (which was a controversial topic at the time, but failed to make an appearance on the Main Page). From that subheader until the bottom of the page, the names of the templates that were attempted to be transcluded are the ones showing up instead of what was intended to be shown there. I checked some other archive pages, such as this and this, and the same error just appears at random. There are only a few instances when, with the exception of AnomieBOT, a handful of other editors or bots edited those archive pages. Where is the error? LSGH (talk) (contributions) 07:07, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

It was in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded like currently 7 [2] other monthly archives. I fix July 2020 by omitting transclusion of the 31 daily Current events pages to avoid breaking Wikipedia:Template limits#Post-expand include size.[3] It now happens to use 99.95% of the allowed limit [2,096,064/2,097,152 bytes]. It barely works currently but may break with any edit to one of the used templates. I haven't fixed the other 7 archives. PrimeHunter (talk) 07:49, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. I wonder if the bot's method of archiving can be tweaked to make it the default way to move those templates? LSGH (talk) (contributions) 09:11, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

mapframe / GeoJSON problemEdit

Could somebody who understands GeoJSON take a look at Van_Cortlandt_Park#Roads. It's displaying, "<mapframe>: The JSON content is not valid GeoJSON+simplestyle". -- RoySmith (talk) 15:01, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

The documentation for {{Maplink}} is vague, but |type= was missing. The template should capture that error and display a helpful error message. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:17, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-33Edit

16:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

List of people who died climbing Mount Everest table in Android appEdit

(Crossposted from Help Desk) The wikitable in the "Fatalities" section List of people who died climbing Mount Everest article is not showing correctly in the Android app (OnePlus 7 Pro), but displays fine if I open it in Chrome on the same phone. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the app or the formatting of the table itself, but if anyone knows of a solution, it would be greatly appreciated. TheMrP (talk) 17:01, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@TheMrP: this is because of the usage of {{row numbers}}, which doesn't seem to be compatible with the Parsoid output. See also: Template_talk:Row_numbers#Template_doesn't_work_(at_all)_on_mobile_appTheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Problem in Template:ToneEdit

Template seems to work fine when used, but on its own page displays a bunch of bogus instances of "‹The template Tlc is being considered for merging.›" If anyone understands what is going on there, please fix it! - Jmabel | Talk 03:49, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 August 10#Template:Tlc is going on. I'm wondering whether we should just noinclude that message. Jackmcbarn (talk) 04:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
The direct cause is this edit. As far as Template:Tone is concerned, it only affects how the template documentation is displayed - the operation of {{Tone}} itself is entirely unaffected. The message is showing in the doc because the doc uses {{tlc}} frequently, in constructs like {{tlc|Tone|section|{{((}}subst:DATE{{))}}}}. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

"Edit" button won't workEdit

Whenever I click the "edit" button (NOT the "Edit" tab near top of page) on Template:Civil rights movement, it takes me here. I don't know why nor how to fix it. Mitchumch (talk) 03:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Mitchumch: Fixed (Special:Diff/972262511). Jackmcbarn (talk) 04:02, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@Mitchumch: This edit caused the breakage; the value of the |title= parameter can be anything you like (within reason) but the value of the |name= parameter must be exactly equal to the template's own name (minus the Template: prefix), unredirected. If left alone, it would have shown up in Wikipedia:Database reports/Invalid Navbar links on the next run of that report, as a result of which I would have fixed it in early September. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

class="wikitable aligned linked" for linked country lists with flagsEdit

@Magnus Manske: @Ahecht: and anybody else who can help.

Right now the table at the above-linked country list has this:

class="wikitable mw-datatable sortable"

It would be nice to have an "aligned" class that adds align=left to each cell in the first column. In an external stylesheet via class=aligned. Is this possible? It is necessary when style=text-align:right; has been added to the top of the table wikitext in order to align all data to the right.

Also, a class=linked to put internal link brackets around each cell in the first column. Is this possible?

Or if classes are not possible, then adding the options to tab2wiki and/or excel2wiki. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:00, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: It's possible with TemplateStyles. I just created Template:TemplateStyles sandbox/Jackmcbarn/aligned.css. To try it out, put <templatestyles src="Template:TemplateStyles sandbox/Jackmcbarn/aligned.css" /> anywhere in your sandbox page, then add col1-left as a class to the table. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:43, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Wow, that's great, Jackmcbarn. I used it in the first table in the sandbox: User:Timeshifter/Sandbox107. Is it OK to use this in articles right now? If so, I would like to change the class name. The current name is confusing, and many people will mess it up. I, like many people, confuse the letter "l" with the number "1". Some fonts are worse than others. How about making it really simple like class=left or class=column-left since it is left aligning the left-most column? Many people will be using this so it needs to be simple. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: How about left-align-first-column? In general, longer class names are better to avoid the risk of collision. Anyway, as for using in articles, certainly don't transclude a sandbox page from one, but that code at a more permanent location would be fine to use. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: I like long class names and long template parameter names. Where should this code go? Can you put it there? Once it is set up, I can describe its use at Help:Table. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: see WP:TEMPLATESTYLES - basically you will want to put this on a sub page of a template, and then change your template to incorporate it. — xaosflux Talk 00:53, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: @Jackmcbarn: I read WP:TEMPLATESTYLES, and I understood very little of it. It's above my pay grade. Could someone set up this style sheet for me? See:
User:Timeshifter/Sandbox107#Table without flags and country links
In that upper sandbox table this is what currently aligns the text in all the table cells:
{| class="wikitable mw-datatable sortable col1-left" border=1 style=text-align:right;
<templatestyles src="Template:TemplateStyles sandbox/Jackmcbarn/aligned.css"/>
I put the stylesheet code just below the top wikitext line of the table. It's convenient for later editors to see what is affecting the table. And it allows me and other editors to see the alignment in editing preview even while editing just that one section of the page. I noticed that if I stuck it outside that section then I did not see the left alignment in preview of that section.
Once this stylesheet is set up and described in Help:Table it will be used in thousands of tables, and save people a lot of time. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:55, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: template styles is really meant to be a stylesheet for a template, not something that styles raw wikitables. — xaosflux Talk 11:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: @Jackmcbarn: Well then, where can this stylesheet be placed? Its utility should be obvious. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: template styles would normally be used if you made something like Template:TableForThisThing - introducing a new class for use in any wikitable would likely need to go in the site wide css, and not done with templatestyles. So are yo utrying to style a specific table - or any table? — xaosflux Talk 13:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: I would like to be able to use this on any table. How does this get put in sitewide CSS? --Timeshifter (talk) 13:38, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: you can propose a change at MediaWiki talk:Common.css - see first Wikipedia:Catalogue_of_CSS_classes. If you think this is important enough that all wiki's would have utility for it, you can instead file a feature request to have it bundled on the back end. — xaosflux Talk 14:11, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: I left a message at MediaWiki talk:Common.css. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:45, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
I am not a fan of TemplateStyles set up solely to align table columns. It's rarely semantic. --Izno (talk) 01:11, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Izno: How else would you do this? The only other choice I can think of is putting the alignment on every row individually. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:56, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: Tables that have first columns left-aligned and the remainder not left-aligned should almost invariably have the first cells marked up as row headers (see MOS:DTT). The existing class plainrowheaders will left-align those row header cells. If there any exceptions to that, then the table can be extracted as a template and transcluded back along with bespoke TemplateStyles associated with that particular template. --RexxS (talk) 22:53, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: Now there's an idea. With tab2wiki, check "First element in a row is a header", or with excel2wiki, check "format first row as header", then just add that class and see if you like the result. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:58, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: @RexxS: @Xaosflux: Tab2wiki and Excel2wiki do not add scope=row. Class="wikitable plainrowheaders" does not work without scope=row.
scope=row is not necessary anymore for most tables according to someone who uses screen readers. See talk here:
Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial/Archive 2#Are scope=row and scope=column needed nowadays on basic wikitables using class=wikitable?
Help:Table#Scope also points out that scope=row is no longer required by the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C).
Plus the more difficult this becomes the less likely that editors will bother to align any text in tables beyond class=wikitable which aligns everything to the left of all cells.
I don't care where the CSS is stored. It is only a couple lines. And like I said this class will be used on thousands of tables. So why not put it in Commons.css and remove some other CSS that is not being used, or rarely used. --Timeshifter (talk) 01:15, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: The English Manual of Style requires row headers and scope. See WP:HEADERS, MOS:ACCESS #Data tables and MOS:DTT. If you want to change the consensus in those, start an RfC.
If Tab2wiki and Excel2wiki do not add scope=row, then it's about time they were fixed to do so.
Scope is required for tables because we can't assume what the the behaviour of all screen readers will be without it.
For a simple fixed table where the first column contains row headers (the WCAG example), we can be reasonably sure that a screen reader will correctly identify it with or without the scope. However, unlike the tables considered by the WCAG, Wikipedia is a dynamic medium and tables can be modified and changed in ways that break the assumptions made by WCAG. The safest way to ensure that we cover all possible scenarios is to give the guidance that row headers are marked up as row headers and are given the scope=row attribute. There is no example anywhere that I'm aware of where that produces the wrong result.
It is ridiculous to complicate guidance with different scenarios: one guidance for "simple" tables; another guidance for "complex" ones. Editors do not need to have to work out what sort of table they are working with if they have one straightforward piece of guidance as they have now.
Please don't include advice in the help pages that contradicts the MoS. It is not helpful.
Editors have shown themselves capable of following the guidance in MOS:DTT for a decade now, and we have 3,656 featured lists that comply with it, so it's clearly not that difficult to grasp.
It doesn't matter where you think the CSS should be stored. A properly marked up table has no need of your CSS, and I oppose its use anywhere, because I've yet to see any example of where it would be useful. --RexxS (talk) 02:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial is not a guideline, nor a policy. Most tables on Wikipedia don't use scope. And they don't need it according to the real authority, WCAG. Not me, and not you. More info (that you tried to delete today) from Help:Table:
Note: From an April 2020 discussion: Someone using a screen reader wrote the following concerning a simple table (class=wikitable) with and without scope attributes: "FWIW all those tables read identically to me on the latest version of JAWS and a fairly recent version of NVDA."

See: H63: Using the scope attribute to associate header cells and data cells in data tables | Techniques for WCAG 2.0. It is from the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C). It states:

"For simple tables that have the headers in the first row or column then it is sufficient to simply use the TH elements without scope."

So the scope markup is not needed in simple wikitables using class=wikitable. For other tables see below.

This scope discussion has become offtopic to this thread about making it easier to align the text in tables. This is because people are not going to go back and add scope=row to tables in Wikipedia. Nearly all tables on Wikipedia are simple tables as defined by WCAG above. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:50, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
You state class=wikitable which aligns everything to the left of all cells - this is not true. For header cells, the wikitable class applies the declaration text-align: center; but for data cells, no text alignment is set. By default, with no other styling, most browsers will centre-align header cells and left-align data cells - in fact, I know of none that don't do this. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:03, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@Redrose64: OK. Thanks. So it's the browser that sets the alignment. I did not know that. I use Firefox and everything below the top headers is left aligned. Unless there are some row headers which I don't see often with country tables. --Timeshifter (talk) 12:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: MOS:DTT is the authoritative guideline and is referenced from MOS:ACCESS #Data tables as the page that it summarises:

... Scope of headers (<code>! scope="col" |</code> and <code>! scope="row" |</code>): This clearly identifies headers as either row headers or column headers. Headers can now be associated to corresponding cells. ("H63: Using the scope attribute to associate header cells and data cells in data tables". Techniques for WCAG 2.0. World Wide Web Consortium. Retrieved 1 January 2011.)

The MoS enjoys project-wide consensus and you are not entitled to use your own preferences for the markup which is clearly defined in the MoS.
The content that you wrote in Help:Table is just your own personal musings and fails to accurately reflect the MoS as it must. The area of MoS is subject to discretionary sanctions, and editors who fail to adhere to expected standards are liable to be sanctioned by any uninvolved admin. The authority here is the consensus of the community, not WCAG, and I've explained to you that tables on Wikipedia are not guaranteed to be as stable as those on other websites that WCAG will be considering.
I've also already made the point that we have decided not to give different advice for different complexity of tables. "Simple" tables work just as well with properly marked up headers and scopes, so the guidance sticks to the simple principle of using them for all tables, rather than asking editors to work out what kind of table they are editing.
This guidance has been in place for at least ten years and your attempts to undermine it are not constructive. All data tables on Wikipedia require headers and scope, and if other projects wish to adopt the same guidance, they are free to do so, but that is not relevant here.
Let me be helpful about this: if an editor adds header/scope markup to a data table, they are making it compliant with the MoS; if an editor removes header/scope markup from a data table, they are liable to be sanctioned. That should make the position clear enough for you. --RexxS (talk) 16:27, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
An admin who uses screen readers disagrees with you. From Help:Table: Note: From an April 2020 discussion: A Wikipedia admin who uses a screen reader wrote the following concerning a simple table (class=wikitable) with and without scope attributes: "FWIW all those tables read identically to me on the latest version of JAWS and a fairly recent version of NVDA."
The same admin in an August 13, 2020 discussion about the same set of tables, but where the row headers were changed to data cells: "There are no problems with those tables, and having the row headers replaced with data cells makes no difference."
The page you keep linking to, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial, has a banner at the top that specifically says it is not a guideline, nor a policy.
Discussion is starting at Help talk:Table. Please let us continue it there. Further discussion here is hijacking of this thread. That, I believe, is against guidelines. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:39, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
I've worked with Graham87 for a decade to improve accessibility on Wikipedia. Graham does not disagree with me, nor I with him. We all know that for simple tables, JAWS will identify the row header, or even use the first column if there's no markup. That much is not in doubt. What you are are incapable of understanding is that we give guidance suitable for all data tables on Wikipedia, not just one type. Go and look at ] H63]] that you're so fond of. Check the markup in "Example 1: A simple schedule". Why do you maintain it's a good idea to give editors different advice from the WCAG?
MOS:DTAB defers to MOS:DTT for its guidance as well as summarising it, and DTAB mandates headers and scopes. If you think that the guidance in MOS:DTT is optional, try removing the headers and/or scopes from an article, give me the link, and see how long it takes before you're blocked.
I've replied to your misunderstandings of headers, scopes and html5 at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial#Row headers versus data cells in the first column of a simple table
Now, if you want to actually discuss your suggestion about a new class to left align table content, give me an example of where it would be useful. Time to put up or shut up. --RexxS (talk) 00:10, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Graham87 said today that he did not see a problem with the simple tables without scope tags or row headers in the latest table comparisons I created. In comparison to the same tables with scope tags and row headers. See:
RexxS. People are going to continue to ignore your pleas for scope tags and row headers until you show them the complex tables that actually need them. I am trying to figure out which complex tables need those scope tags and row headers.
In the meantime please stop hijacking this thread. This thread is about the thousands of tables on Wikipedia that need data cell text aligned to the right, and 1st column text aligned to the left. Editors are not going to do a lot of work to add scope=row to each cell in a header column just to be able to use class=plainrowheaders on simple tables.
--Timeshifter (talk) 10:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Jackmcbarn, yes, this is the way you have to do this at the table level (still don't have access to HTML col and colgroup after 2 decades woo). I'm stating a dissatisfaction with the naming. Time has not provided a particularly semantic reason for this. I also have an issue with how... lacking in generality this solition is.
Almost as tedious as the inline option is to add a class to each cell and then apply some styles as in Template:TemplateStyles sandbox/Izno/styles.css. You'll note the added semantics which lifts my objection (centered numbers aside :|). This also allows us to standardize the appearance of our tables according to what is in each cell. This approach might also be extended to rows and columns which are totals, for example.
I suppose you could go back the table direction and provide numbered versions of these such that we could target the specific column from the table level. That solution leaves a bad taste in my mouth because then you're dealing with the permutations and loading lots of CSS into the page source even if you might not need styling for a .wt-person-12(col)... (whether that's less or more than the inline version... Probably similar source unless we're talking big tables). --Izno (talk) 02:03, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Comment. In addition to class=left-align-first-column we will need class=left-align-2nd-column - This is because the first column in a table is often a rank column. And so the column that will need its text aligned to the left will be the 2nd column. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Old notificationEdit

I just got this email. The last mention was in 2016. The only activity on the page I can see was an archiving done by a script, or is it something else? (I don't think it is an email lag issue). --Titodutta (talk) 22:36, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Titodutta, I archived a section using OneClickArchiver. I guess archiving (sometimes or always?) pings linked usernames. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes, that might be. An archiving should not trigger a notification, is not it so? The mentioned script-creator's account seem to be blocked, that's why I am not sure to notify on their talk page. Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 22:44, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Whether the archiving edit was made by bot, by script, or entirely manually won't make a difference: notifications are triggered by a new post (which this technically is) bearing the signature of the person making the edit. An archiving edit - such as the one in question, made yesterday - is a cut and paste, they are not given new signatures. Ordinarily, the absence of a new signature means that no notifications should be sent. In this case, the archiving edit was made by a person (Another Believer) whose sig also appears in the archived thread, so I guess that the notifications system doesn't check that the associated timestamp is recent. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 05:52, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Problem with Infobox: Russian districtEdit

On Yuzhnoportovy District, I have updated the infobox to set the parameters pop_latest = 74,729 with the pop_latest_date = 2019, but the infobox still shows:


  • Estimate (2018): 74,376

This number does not appear anywhere in the source text, so why is the infobox reporting information different than entered in its parameters? WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:29, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Because Wikidata. {{Infobox Russian district}} defers to data from Wikidata where it exists and is dated for 2018-01-01. | pop_est_as_of = {{#if: <!-- wikidata pop as of 01.01.18 is set --> {{wikidata|property|raw|P1082|P585=2018-01-01}} | 2018 | <!-- use template paramenter --> {{{pop_latest_date|}}} }} ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 13:32, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @WikiDan61: welcome to the world of wikidata integration - that value is at wikidata:Q1963417 - so please update it there if you know the right value to help anyone relying on that - as for as the template parameter - the local values generally should override the wikidata values, but I don't have time to dig in to that template syntax right now. — xaosflux Talk 13:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. I've updated the relevant WikiData. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:41, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Change to Chrome rendering of PNGs causing blurry formulasEdit

My Chrome installation (Win 10) just updated (it tends to be a bit behind because I'm lazy about closing it out completely), and <math>...</math> formulas suddenly look very blurry, to the point of being really terrible to look at. Poking around, I found this StackOverflow post, which offered a CSS suggestion. I was able to get that working here in my common.css with:

   image-rendering: -webkit-optimize-contrast;

This does improve formulas for me, as they appeared to be before, but I don't know how robust/hacky this is, if there are better options, or if something like this is worth adding sitewide for non-logged in users, because the current situation is pretty rough for reading math articles otherwise. Thanks, –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:31, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Deacon Vorbis: In Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering, does changing "Math" from "PNG images" to "MathML with SVG or PNG fallback (recommended for modern browsers and accessibility tools)" help? Maybe instead of that CSS hack, we should consider making that preference the new default for everyone. Jackmcbarn (talk) 06:30, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: Ugh, that was it. I know there was a reason I changed it at some point previously, but I don't remember why precisely. And since it always looked fine, I never thought about it again until this. It feels silly having oodles of unused MathML being downloaded when I don't use a browser that supports it, but oh well. Thanks for the simple check that I forgot about. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 13:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Use different textual display in a template at ths botrom of the pageEdit

In Template:Israeli political parties, there's a party called "Center Party". The problem is that some articles with this template use the spelling "centre". Is there any way to fix the template only on those pages, while displaying "center" in articles which use the American spelling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Just because an article prefers a spelling of a word, does not change the name of a party does it ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

New look?Edit

I see French Wikipedia looks different now. Is this idiocy slated to come to other wikis too? (talk) 18:37, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Please see mw:Reading/Web/Desktop_ImprovementsTheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:42, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Yech 👎👎 (talk) 19:01, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
How can it be overridden? Ruslik_Zero 21:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
See the mw page DJ linked to above; its in the section Deployment plan and timeline. Nthep (talk) 21:10, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
You can lose the huge white stripes left and right with this CSS rule:
.skin-vector-max-width .mw-page-container {
  min-width: none;
  max-width: none;
  padding: 0;
To alter for French Wikipedia only, it goes in fr:Special:MyPage/vector.css (if you have one) or in fr:Special:MyPage/common.css (if you don't); or to alter for all WMF sites, put it in m:Special:MyPage/global.css. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:22, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
I realize this is probably a stupid question but is there anyway to override this width issue for an anonymous IP user? Even on a per-use, non-permanemt, basis? (talk) 17:30, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
You can use your browser's developer tools to remove the skin-vector-max-width class from the <body> tag. If you want that effect permanently you can also use a browser extension like Greasemonkey to do that on every page load (see top of my global.js).  Majavah talk · edits 17:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much, the developer tools deletion method you described worked well for me. (talk) 17:46, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
There's also user styles on Firefox-type browsers via Stylus (FF 57+, IceCat and other Quantum-based), Stylem (Pale Moon) and Stylish 2.1.1 on Classic Addon Archive (Waterfox). Don't get Stylish newer than 2.1.1 because it contains malware. (talk) 18:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Hide redirects when searching contributions?Edit

Is it possible to add an option for hiding edits to redirects when searching user contributions, similar to the current options to only show latest revisions, page creations, or non-minor edits? BD2412 T 05:32, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

If edit causes an error, warn the userEdit

Currently the software will show if an article contains errors. This is nice. However if I make an edit that causes errors, there is no warning. Only if I preview the changes then I can see the problem. I think this needs to change. It would mean fewer errors would be made for other people to catch and fix later. --Palosirkka (talk) 09:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Palosirkka, WP:TWWPK Ed talk! 09:46, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

How do I archive all of the references in the article Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis?Edit

So the article Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis apparently has more references than are allowed to archive. Is it possible to request that a bot archive all of the references, please? I tried the "Fix Dead Links" tool thorough the article's Page/History. The tool told me there are too many dead links for that tool to work. Factfanatic1 (talk) 17:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

And as an additional thought, I also ran the "Fix Dead Links", and it told me it was too large, but to try running a bot. I clicked on the link it gave to run the bot. The bot said it completed. Absolutely nothing changed in the article history, so maybe something else needs to be done there. — Maile (talk) 18:44, 13 August 2020 (UTC)


I've been working on a long list that stretches across two pages, and I'm wondering if there's any danger of going over any MediaWiki or browser limits if I combine the two. User:Dank/Sandbox/9 is roughly the size of the combined list ... it loads slowly, but otherwise seems okay. Anyone see a problem? - Dank (push to talk) 17:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Dank, a 250KB page isn't the best idea especially considering the parse time and the effects it might have in terms of performance or just not loading at all on slower systems - most long lists split their content alphabetically Ed talk! 17:48, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Very helpful, thanks. - Dank (push to talk) 17:52, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@Dank: As Ed6767 points out, such a page may be a bit slow to load, but it turns out you're actually nowhere near any of the limits. While previewing the page, expand the "Parser profiling data (help) :" section and look at the values inside. Proportionally, the closest value to its limit is the Scribunto running time, which is still less than half of the allowed time, so even if you were to double the size and complexity of that page, it would still render fine, if not quickly. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Is Ed correct that for readers with slower connections, the page might time out and not load at all? How about if the page is slightly bigger? (And for people who say "just make the page smaller", that might not be possible ... I'm struggling with FLC requirements here, which will be up to the reviewers.) - Dank (push to talk) 00:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Ed6767, To be a little more quantitative, the limit is mediawiki's $wgMaxArticleSize variable. On enwiki, it's apparently set to 2000, which means just about 2 MB.
Long before you run into that hard limit, you'll probably run into performance issues, especially on mobile devices, which may be on networks with very limited bandwidth. In extreme cases, even if the mediawiki software is willing ot handle it, if page load times get too long, all sorts of intermediate systems (caches, prioxies, etc) might time out.
Also, you may possibly run into other limits besides just overall size. Not long ago, there was a case of a long article which included a large number of small images of national flags. It was running into the max number of images allowed on a page, or something like that. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:45, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Okay, thanks, I'll go with two pages instead of one. I don't have any personal preference, I just need to be able to justify my choice to the FLC reviewers, and you guys have given me enough here to do that. - Dank (push to talk) 01:04, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Page views by category?Edit

Hello, is there a way I could see page views by a category? For example, how many page views for every article in the last week with the category violence in sport were viewed. Apologies if I should have asked this at Help Desk. Thanks in advance! AugusteBlanqui (talk) 22:10, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

@AugusteBlanqui: Yes, the Massviews tool can do that for you. the wub "?!" 22:19, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@The wub: Thanks! AugusteBlanqui (talk) 08:55, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

edit windowEdit

I forget, where do we go to request changes to the character-input charts under the edit window? — kwami (talk) 08:55, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

PyWikiBot (or Muninnbot/Toolforge) not flagging bot editsEdit

Schazjmd brought to my attention (here, more than a month ago...) that my bot Muninnbot does not mark its edits as made by a bot. Here's a recent example. Note that Muninnbot has the "bot" account flag but AFAICT this does not impact whether individual edits are flagged as bot-made (some bots do not flag their edits on purpose).

I am not sure why that happens. The code invokes the PyWikiBot method (bot code here) with the documentation-compliant botflag=True option. I looked around the source code of PWB and could not find anything that would be off; I also looked at Phabricator and did not see any related bug (looking at the titles only).

On the one hand, my own code is very simple (only one line makes the actual writing) that I do not see what I could have missed. On the other hand, the balance of probabilities is in favor of a mistake on my end rather than a PWB feature being broken for years without anyone realizing. Before I file a bug report on the PWB Phabricator, an extra set of eyes would be appreciated. TigraanClick here to contact me 14:05, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tigraan: just to clarify/confirm for you: when editing via the API you must assert the "bot flag" with each edit, being in the "bot user group" grants your account the "bot permission", which allows it to flag edits with the "bot flag". (c.f. mw:Manual:Bots#Bot_right,_group,_and_flag). Additionally, you need to not restrict yourself from using the bot access on your authentication method (be it OAuth/BotPasswords/Etc). — xaosflux Talk 15:13, 14 August 2020 (UTC)