# User talk:ClemRutter

Active discussions
2014

## Reclining-Declining Sundials

Dear ClemRutter,

Sorry for the many edits and re-edits to the Reclining-Declining Sundials paragraph.

But I think that I've now got the right formulas now for the gnomon angles at last. Where do I get them ? I derived them - not by any fancy means like rotation matrices or quaternions; but rather through good old-fashioned 3-D Euclidean geometry. By this I mean that I constructed physical models of the reclining-declining dial geometry using cardboard sheets for planes and strips of wire for optical paths and pertinent geometry lines/angles. I chose to do it this way as :

1) The results are far more concrete and convincing when this method is employed. This is particularly true in the reclining-declining dial case as there are many different formulas published for its hour angle and its gnomon angles.

2) The people who build these dials will generally come from a trades background. This means that they would generally have begun apprenticeships at 16 - 17 and their math level will be up to UK GCSE/O-level or French Brevet standard -- i.e. Euclidean geometry, basic trigonometry and basic algebra. My method is followable by people at this standard.

In due course I plan to submit a paper on this method - as well as the relevant diagrams (using Google SketchUp) for the vital geometrical relationships - to the North American Sundial Society.

The ${\displaystyle s_{o}}$ orientation switch integer for generalizing the hour angle formula over all dial declinations is the only 'novelty' added to the existing nomenclature. I find it handy when programming.

If you have any points to make on the actual formulas presented in Wiki by me or want to offer alternatives for discussion, please feel free.

Tamjk (talk) 10:52, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

I am enjoying the links personally but having difficulty in seeing how all this can be justified under WP:NOR. I would be inclined to keep the published sources (right or wrong) and include the improvements (unpublished corrections wrapped in a {{efn}} template that links to the {{notelist}} footnote. Rest assured I accept your maths as being superior.
What I was about to do was to change all the notation which I got from Waugh, Mayall & Mayall to the agreed symbols used by and recommended by the BSS- but that is also on hold while I sort out a useable python library.
It is interesting that fr:Cadran incliné-déclinant doesnt exist but all other types fr:Cadran déclinant have separate page- I haven't analysed which notation convention they are using- but I suspect that even there they are excluded most readers by using Greek letters which are not taught at brévet/ GCSE level.
Many thoughts - much to do -- 11:34, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, there's no original research here. Simply the same results via a more traditional and more workmanlike method. The hour angle formula is the same (bar using reclination angle instead of inclination) as those presented by Snyder and others :

The gnomon angle formulas are the same as those presented in the BSS Formulae webpage, at least the dial-plate angle (the "style height" in BSS parlance) once you allow for their defining inclination w.r.t. the rear horizontal rather than the front (i.e. sun side) horizontal.

Unfortunately they have the substyle-noon angle wrong - but so did all of us originally.

Tamjk (talk) 16:10, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay. I've now completed changing the Greek nomenclature to Roman. Tamjk (talk) 14:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)mmm

Hi Mr Rutter. It seems that I owe you an apology for having given you so much grief by way of other posters rejecting my hour-angle formulae ! But I shall make no apology at all for the hour-angle formulae themselves. I am confident that they are correct since I derived them two ways - and moreover since they square with those of Snyder [ref. above], allowing for his nomenclature definition. The gnomon-plate and the substyle-noon angles are also consistent with those quoted in some other sources. LIkewise with the critical angle expression for the reclined-declined dial. I'd intended putting out a paper detailing my derivations but other obligations intervened. Hopefully this summer.

Tamjk (talk) 18:27, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

To December 2015

As you are a previous editor of City of Adelaide (1864), you may be interested in the Style Proposal on Talk:City of Adelaide (1864)
ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 22:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

## Books and Bytes - Issue 9

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 9, November-December 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

• New donations, including real-paper-and-everything books, e-books, science journal databases, and more
• New TWL coordinators, conference news, a new open-access journal database, summary of library-related WMF grants, and more
• Spotlight: "Global Impact: The Wikipedia Library and Persian Wikipedia" - a Persian Wikipedia editor talks about their experiences with database access in Iran, writing on the Persian project and the JSTOR partnership
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

## Corliss steam engine

Hello ClemRutter, please look at the Discussion page of Corliss steam engine ... Maybe we can find a solution to the images. --Metilsteiner (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

## Well met

It was good to meet you at the London meetup today. The article I mentioned, which uses one of your photos, is wrap reel. I am generally interested in textile topics so will look out for you in this area now. Andrew D. (talk) 22:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

## Richard Watts Charities

Clem. I've corrected a minor typo (which was nothing to do with the work you're doing). I have also changed the nested sfn to an efn for the note with an sfn for the citation. I think it makes more sense, but if you disagree you know where the revert mechanism is. I'm guessing you're still working on this, so I'll leave the cite error alone for a while. Thanks and regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:26, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I was just doing some of the donkey work then going to message you to ask your opinion- I stop now and let you have a go with the hard ones. I was on the page due to a comment at the London Meetup that there were no articles on Workhouses.(not true but nearly so). All Saints Hospital was the former Chatham Workhouse and in chasing Strood Workhouse on Gun Lane- I found Richard Watts Charities. -- 23:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Not a problem, I just didn't want to interfere unduly with your constructive work. The article is one I worked on quite a time ago, 2013 was only when it split from Richard Watts. That was only a stub back in 2011 when I started on it, but I inherited the citations. I agree they could do with a refresh - this seems like a discussion & consensus so with your help I'll be WP:BOLD! :-) Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:44, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Done Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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## Mass-produced museums

Hallo Clem, I've found a batch of your museum stubs filing under "X" in Category:Stubs - don't forget to fix the DEFAULTSORT, rather than leave it at the default XXXXX of your pattern. All the best, PamD 23:54, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

yes, I just do it to get noticed. Oops you are not supposed to use humour! Nice to hear from you. -- 00:06, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

## Manchester Grammar School

I am new to Wikipedia editing and seek assistance from someone more experienced to help guide me in improving the article about Manchester Grammar School. You have kindly made a large number of superb edits on the Manchester Grammar School article I wondered if you might be able to help me. As Head of Computing at this school I have a vast amount of 'original research' knowledge and wish to learn how to translate this into 'allowed content' bearing in mind the strict NOR and COI guidelines. In particular there are many sections in the article that require citations, and some existing citations that no longer work as the main school website has been changed recently and now has much reduced content. Also there is little currently published online about the school that relates to much of the existing content. The main school website at www.mgs.org is not something under my control, but I am the webmaster of the official school Virtual Learning Environment at www.mgscentral.org and therefore could place accurate content about the school on that site that could be cited on Wikipedia. I believe that under existing Wikipedia COI rules this may be deemed OK, but it is an area about which I have failed to find clear guidance on Wikipedia. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.Serendipityrules (talk) 12:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thank you so much for your swift, considered and detailed response to my request. Outstanding.Serendipityrules (talk) 12:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The tone of that article is all wrong, it is too long and reads like a prospectus. There is much dead wood to chop out, I cut off a little bit. J3Mrs (talk) 17:58, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

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## VisualEditor News 2015—#1

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on VisualEditor's appearance, the coming Citoid reference service, and support for languages with complex input requirements. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. Upcoming plans are posted at the VisualEditor roadmap.

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## Private schools

Thanks for your reply re. this topic. I think the point we must never forget about British private schools is that although they are charities (nominally at least - but that's another matter!), they are also businesses. Therefore, they go out of their way to promote themselves. Usually they do this in several ways - not all of which are suitable for Wikipedia.

I haven't tagged all the private school articles I've looked at recently as I think some of them are alright. But it is notable that many of the state school articles (although too thin), show a completely different emphasis in their content.

I have no problem with the schools being on Wikipedia:

• As historical institutions. Many of them are old, and so of interest for that reason alone. I suppose architecture is a related subject.
• As far as alumni go, most of these schools are interested in churning out high earners in the professions. This gets reflected in many of those listed as former pupils. (A quick scout around often reveals that School X has interesting alumni who are notable in other fields, esp. the arts, but who aren't useful for advertising.)
• Some schools such as Stowe have features (grounds, buildings) which predate the school; others such as Dulwich have art collections, sculptures etc - all of these are non-academic points of interest more modern state schools tend to lack.

However, not sure what to do about the pushing of exam pass rates. As far as I'm concerned, private education uses a number of tricks to help raise these figures - scholarships being the most obvious. Third party references are better, but even then I'm sceptical.

Other traits I see in these articles, which come up again and again, are computing/science facilities (good, but how do they compare to elsewhere?), foreign pupils (Asians etc have been coming to British private schools since 19th century. Nothing new, or interesting), CCF (child soldier-y, again I think of limited interest to outsiders) and so on.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:18, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more and said something similar up the page, they are often too long and read like a school prospectus. What's encyclopedic about after school clubs, etc? J3Mrs (talk) 19:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
This is exactly it. We're not here to provide the schools with potential paying pupils, we're here to talk about points of interest about the school, which concern readers who want to research history etc.-MacRùsgail (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

In agreement too. There are many sections that are toxic- but unfortunately informative. Can we roll back to the Talk:Manchester Grammar School page, where we have a new editor User talk:Serendipityrules willing to take on the task of adding verifiable facts- but wanted advice on what WP policy was on conflict of interest. After fighting the spaghetti on the CofI pages I passed on advice on the way staff members should announce them selves, which he has followed. Coming from a local government background I am familiar with the declarations of substantive/non substantive- financial/nonfinancial that councillors make. WP is far slacker.

The second interesting question is what makes a satisfactory secondary source. The line I take is that anything published in a pupils day book is a secondary source, while anything published in the staff handbook maybe. In the staff handbook, the bullying policy will be signed and dated as a text agreed and published in the governors minutes of xx-blah-blah. In a state school that is a public primary source- but I can say whether academies or private schools keep these as private document. Clarification needed- I suspect it case by case.But since I used these documents- everything has gone on line, and I haven't been able to work out whether open pages on the school intranet( different from its fundraising website) have the same status as the pupils day book. Or further what we do about the closed pages which are password protected. These pages are now just about the only thing visible about a school- save the sponsored press release.

Take for example: the ficticious Blagdon Messenger- owned by Lord Retarded, who prints good articles about Blagdon Independent School, take a look at the Governors, and see three generations of Retardeds have been chair- and the currrent Head once shared a cell with Lord Retarded half-brother when they were at Eton or Broadmoor.

School histories by a sychophantic old boy?

See WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG it does suggest what should be included but does not address the question of social class bias. Indeed I haven't ever read through it completely - I get so annoyed at the class bias in the analysis. That is another story- but is it the elephant in the room.

I go back to some useless sections- because of the nature of British Society- the chair of all major sports federations will be one of the the Eton elite. Look at the Olympic Sports-- you sure as hell are not going to succeed unless you have been coached in these after school clubs at one of these bastions of privilege. WP seems to go overboard on sporting achievement-- and music and drama, all disproportionately represented by the elite.

We need to have clear GAs for guidance- I suggested we look at Norwich School (independent school) and User:Kudpung suggested looking at Hanley Castle Grammar School (no longer independent) and Malvern College.

While I will help, as I have in the past, I am not dedicating my WPself to the cause. I do keep my offWP life separate. -- 23:42, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

On my watchlist The King's School, Chester- where does one start?
AFAICS there's nothing much wrong with The King's School, Chester. Articles about schools that provide mainstream education to Grade 12 or 6th form are all perfectly acceptable whatever state they are in, but they should of course be cleaned up for neutrality (in this case schools on the Indian sub continent are the worst offenders, but that is more of an issue of the traditional use of flowery English in that region, as Western native English speakers who has lived and worked there will know). At least British schools articles do talk about what they teach - the vast majority of US school articls do nothing other than promote their sports results. As coordinator of for many years of WP:WPSCH, I beg users to turn their talents to improving really poor articles about schools rather than looking for reasons to poke holes in articles that are actually quite good, but just happen to be fee paying schools. Many school articles are a mess because they are written in good faith by the pupils, which does not necessarily mean thet they are conciously abusing our COI guidelines. One UK independent school that does need a constant watchful eye is Nottingham High School. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Be positive! Good faith IP school pupils (KS4/KS5) or in exceptional circumstance (KS3) are our bread and butter editors in 2025-30. Catch them young, have them contributing while they are writing obscure dissertations as undergrads. Have them patrolling our references- it will do their Uni marks a world of good. I would love to have one correcting my spelling and grammar.
The expectations we have for UK schools is far higher than the puff pieces we expect from over the Atlantic. Working to those higher standards, the evidence shows:
1. State schools are underrepresented- and they are the most important ones to get right.
2. There are a plethora of school types that have been created as the 1944 compromise has been unravelled
3. Private school articles, by their emphasis on flashy facilitys are playing a game with us- there is no reliable information.
4. Need to get the infobox right- for the sake of wikidata.
5. We have two new editors willing to help.
I address the problem of what our readers may want (well its a starting point). If you are a head teacher (chair of governors), you need to see how other schools are coping- the classic example is IGCSE and BTec no longer counting in the Ofsted League Tables. If you are a WP writing/reading parent you need to know what languages are taught at KS5- as this affects your choice at eleven and the feeder primary school you select at four- and ultimately where you buy a house. If you are councillor you need feedback on how you have applied the Cameron's savage cuts. Wikipedia is the Portal to all knowledge.
How do we handle this better? Do we write a series of essays on how to write an article:
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a fee-paying public school:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a fee-paying private school:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a fee-paying former HMC school:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a state comprehensive school under local authority support:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a state comprehensive school with Academy status:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a selective state school with Academy status:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers, students and interested Wikipedians.
• How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a Cameron freeschool:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers, students and interested Wikipedians.
These essays must be task focused and have all the relevant details transcluded onto one page- wikilinking does not work if the document is going to be printed off to be discussed at a committee. I see this as a possible.
We have a backlog of embarrassing articles- but they are all over the place. When I am in a grizzly mood I don't mind pulling an article back together, if I could select one from a convenient list. A monthly mailing of all schools/ or schools for concern listed under subheadings as Public/Private/HMC/State/Academy/CameronFree/ with a link to the relevant essay- may be a possible idea.
Now for fantasy land- as a former chair of governors (three weeks) I would be mortified to find my schools WP was not perfect. Email a RfC to each known Chair of Governors (via the LEA). Attach an essay on -How to write the perfect Wikipedia article, and ask them to agenda it. We need to have enough resources to cope with the avalanche of requests for training and Wikipedians in Residence- and the number of new editors. Be positive - and delegate. Put together the tools- a easy CoI I template, a I would expect to see template for the talkpage...
On the problems on the subcontinent we can take the same approach- when we have a working model for the UK (or vice versa).
On the tricky problem of School intranets v school websites- do you have any thoughts?-- 10:43, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The one thing with a lot of state schools is that they tend to be newer, so less history, and the buildings are invariably less interesting. However, I do notice that unlike the private school articles, state school articles are pretty poor about listing alumni. I've tried to rectify this in some cases, but the simple fact is that there are so many state schools!
Regarding private school alumni, I get bored of seeing long lists of undistinguished judges and diplomats. They probably belong on either dedicated alumni lists (which I support in most cases) or in the categories. Digging around, you find out that many of these people are doing what their parents did... not much of an achievement. I'm more interested in ground-breaking novelists and painters, but they obviously don't sell a school so well! (They're often poor earners, and had colourful lives. Which interests me, but not someone trying to flog school places.)
As you've probably noticed, there's a lot of work to be done on this score. I think this needs a page of its own. -MacRùsgail (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

## Your demonstration Bifilar sundial for lat 51.5

Yes, the French article, if it said that string F1 lines on the meridian, must have meant "meridian-plane". String F1 lies on the meridian-plane. Of course it would be clearer just to say that string F1 lies north-south.

I checked the meridian article, and it looked ok.

No doubt you already have this information, but let me send it anyway:

For a Bifilar sundial, for latitude 51.5, with the north-south string 10 centimeters above the dial-face, the east-west string should be 7.826 centimeters above the dial-face.

Point C, where the hour-lines meet, and about which the hour-lines are drawn, at 15-degree intervals, should be 6.275 centimeters behind (north of) where the two strings intersect.

I'm assuming that south is positive for y, in the co-ordinate system.

Michael Ossipoff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.169.50 (talk) 22:10, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll make one Wednesday-- and test it when the sun returns!. -- 22:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

## Point C is _south_ of point O. ...by h2/tan(lat). I'd mistakenly told you it was north.

Clem--

I've just realized that I got the directions backwards:

Point C is h2/tan(lat) _south_ of point O.

The reason why I initially told it to you backwards was because I was confusing the direction of the sun with the direction of the shadow.

Today or tonight, I'll go the Cadran Bifilaire wikipedia page, and change the places where I said the direction wrong.

I clarified the language at Cadran Bifilaire (English) a bit, wording things as they're said in English, fixing a few ambiguities.

That page didn't say the direction for positive X and Y, but it can be determined by the fact that, if C were North of O, that would mean that sometimes the intersection's shadow would be going around C in the wrong direction, anti-clockwise (counter-clockwise, as we say here). So point C must be south of point O.

Ordinarily I write at the same topic-heading that I already started, but this time it seemed important enough to start a new topic heading, to maximize the chance of this message being noticed.

Michael Ossipoff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.169.50 (talk) 21:31, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

## The hour-usability disadvantage of the Bifilar Dial (with specifics for lat 51.5, winter solstice)

Clem--

Of course the Bifilar isn't usable all day. It has that disadvantage in common with the standard flat vertical dial, the polar dial, and the nodus dial, when those dials only use one flat face.

In particular, for latitude 51.5, and with the north-south wire 10 cm above the dial-face:

At the winter solstice, in order to be usable till half an hour before sunset, a Bifilar dial would have to extend nearly 5 feet out from where the wires intersect. Obviously that dial-size isn't feasible.

So the Bifilar (like the abovementioned other dials) has an hours-usability disadvantage.

Michael Ossipoff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.169.50 (talk) 17:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

## Thanks

Talk:Sundial#Reply_to_Clem.2C_regarding_citations.2C_glossary_violations.2C_construction-manual.2C_etc.; Thanks, a lot of thought and a lot of work! Edmund Patrick confer 10:59, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

## WP:Co-op: Presentation at Wikimania 2015

Hey ClemRutter. I've put in a submission for a presentation at Wikimania 2015 called Is Two the Magic Number?: The Co-op and New Editor Engagement through Mentorship. I'll be talking about the state of finding help spaces on en.wiki and how our new mentorship space, The Co-op, factors into that picture. Reviewing will begin soon and I'll need your help to be able to present our work. Please review our proposal and give us feedback. If you would be interested in seeing this presentation, whether you are attending or not, please add your name to the signup at the bottom of the proposal (you do not need to attend Wikimania to express interest in presentations). I, JethroBT drop me a line on behalf of Wikipedia:Co-op.

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## Co-op: Mentor profiles and final pilot prep

Hey mentors, two announcements:

1. You can now make your profile at The Co-op! Please set up your mentor profile here as soon as you are able, as the pilot begins on March 4th. It isn't very involved and should only take a minute. If you need more info about what the different skills mean (e.g. writing, communication), please refer to these descriptions.
2. Profile creation, invitations, and automated matching of editors, profile creation, that will be coordinated through HostBot and a few gadgets may not be ready for our pilot, and will have to be done manually until they are ready. In preparation for the pilot, please read over these instructions on how we will be manually performing these tasks until the automated components are ready. I, JethroBT drop me a line on behalf of Wikipedia:Co-op.

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## Books and Bytes - Issue 10

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 10, January-February 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

• New donations - ProjectMUSE, Dynamed, Royal Pharmaceutical Society, and Women Writers Online
• New TWL coordinator, conference news, and a new guide and template for archivists
• TWL moves into the new Community Engagement department at the WMF, quarterly review
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Kent, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Metropolitan cathedral and M2 motorway (United Kingdom). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## Thanks and a typo

Thank you for your cross-sectional map of the Wealden Dome. It's a great image; I've spent minutes trying to explain what it instantly shows.
May I point out a minor typo? "Palaeozoic" is miswritten "Palaeolzoic".
Typo fixed. Thanks.-- 23:11, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

## London 91

Hi, we met at London 91 yesterday - I've added you to my list of Wikipedians I have met. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:33, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

## Weaving Industry Videos

Hi Clem,

I hope you are well. I stumbled across a couple of Burnley area weaving videos that might interest you:

Oh and this Handloom Weaver 1947-48 --Trappedinburnley (talk) 12:23, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I have not seen any of them before- yes fascinating- I can think of several articles that will will host them under external links. Crude as they are, they are very complete. My latest effort has been Ellen Hooton, and this has led me to looking for illustrations of a gaited throstle frame and more particularly the Radcliffe Dandy Loom and Dandy loom sheds I can only find 4 images online so I am going to have to resort to paper! But apart from that- I am waiting to be introduced to my second grandchild- he is on his way and has an approximate eta of the 31st of March.-- 22:47, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

## Invitation

Thank you for using VisualEditor and sharing your ideas with the developers.

Hello, ClemRutter,

The Editing team is asking for your help with VisualEditor. I am contacting you because you posted to a feedback page for VisualEditor. Please tell them what they need to change to make VisualEditor work well for you. The team has a list of top-priority problems, but they also want to hear about small problems. These problems may make editing less fun, take too much of your time, or be as annoying as a paper cut. The Editing team wants to hear about and try to fix these small things, too.

You can share your thoughts by clicking this link. You may respond to this quick, simple, anonymous survey in your own language. If you take the survey, then you agree your responses may be used in accordance with these terms. This survey is powered by Qualtrics and their use of your information is governed by their privacy policy.

More information (including a translateable list of the questions) is posted on wiki at mw:VisualEditor/Survey 2015. If you have questions, or prefer to respond on-wiki, then please leave a message on the survey's talk page.

Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:56, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

## Next meetups in North England

Hello. Would you be interested in attending one of the next wikimeets in the north of England? They will take place in:

Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:29, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

## The Reclining-Declining section of the Sundial Article

Clem--

Briefly, I agree that the forumulas given in that section are unintelligible to the general reader, and amount to a cookbook-recipe construction-instruction, whose justifiction is unknown to the reader, and which therefore isn't helpful to the reader. I also discussed the section's claim that agreement on the rigt way to make a reclining-declining dial was reached only during the last decade.

By adding my comments to your discussion heading, in the middle of the talk-page, have I buried my comments where they won't be found? Are new comments only noticed if they're under a new heading at the bottom of the talk-page?

By the way, is this the best way to communicate, or does the Wikipedia system have a messaging-system that I should be using instead?

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 16:31, 2 April 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Another question:

Do you have Mayall & Mayall's sundial book? If so, would you post, here (or to the Sundial article's talk page)Mayall & Mayall's Reclining-Declining formulas?

Or, if you prefer, you could post them to _my_ talk-page. But your talk-page, here, is the main place where I'll be looking, because it's probably more convenient for you to post here.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 19:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)Michael Ossipoff

I am on the road- away from my books for the next two weeks. But to answer the question- yes i had one once- and I think it is on the shelf next to my two copies of Waugh. -- 20:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, and thanks for taking the time to reply when you're traveling on vacation.

No hurry, whenever you have the time, after you return.

The reason why I ask: Specifically, as you probably know, the wikipedia Sundial article (under the Reclining-Declining heading) says that Mayall & Mayall, and Rohr as well, published incorrect Reclining-Declining formulas, and that, in fact, it's only during the last decade that there was agreement on the right way to make a Reclining-Declining sundial.

Those statements should be checked, and deleted if incorrect. (Of course, merely being unsupported is enough reason to not allow them at wikipedi, given that they contradict everything previously published. Notability?!).

I like sundials, and I don't like to be contentious about a subject that like. The Internet has too much contentiousness. But incorrect (or even unsupported) statements that contradict everything previously written have no place at wikipedia.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 13:44, 4 April 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

## VisualEditor News #2—2015

Did you know?

With Citoid in VisualEditor, you click the 'book with bookmark' icon and paste in the URL for a reliable source:

Citoid looks up the source for you and returns the citation results. Click the green "Insert" button to accept its results and add them to the article:

After inserting the citation, you can change it. Select the reference, and click the "Edit" button in the context menu to make changes.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on VisualEditor's performance, the Citoid reference service, and support for languages with complex input requirements. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.

The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 11:00 (noon) PDT (18:00 UTC). You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug. Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal.

### Recent improvements

VisualEditor is now substantially faster. In many cases, opening the page in VisualEditor is now faster than opening it in the wikitext editor. The new system has improved the code speed by 37% and network speed by almost 40%.

The Editing team is slowly adding auto-fill features for citations. This is currently available only at the French, Italian, and English Wikipedias. The Citoid service takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. After creating it, you will be able to change or add information to the citation, in the same way that you edit any other pre-existing citation in VisualEditor. Support for ISBNs, PMIDs, and other identifiers is planned. Later, editors will be able to improve precision and reduce the need for manual corrections by contributing to the Citoid service's definitions for each website.

Citoid requires good TemplateData for your citation templates. If you would like to request this feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.

The special character inserter has been improved, based upon feedback from active users. After this, VisualEditor was made available to all users of Wikipedias on the Phase 5 list on 30 March. This affected 53 mid-size and smaller Wikipedias, including Afrikaans, Azerbaijani, Breton, Kyrgyz, Macedonian, Mongolian, Tatar, and Welsh.

Work continues to support languages with complex requirements, such as Korean and Japanese. These languages use input method editors ("IMEs”). Recent improvements to cursoring, backspace, and delete behavior will simplify typing in VisualEditor for these users.

The design for the image selection process is now using a "masonry fit" model. Images in the search results are displayed at the same height but at variable widths, similar to bricks of different sizes in a masonry wall, or the "packed" mode in image galleries. This style helps you find the right image by making it easier to see more details in images.

You can now drag and drop categories to re-arrange their order of appearance ​on the page.

The pop-up window that appears when you click on a reference, image, link, or other element, is called the "context menu". It now displays additional useful information, such as the destination of the link or the image's filename. The team has also added an explicit "Edit" button in the context menu, which helps new editors open the tool to change the item.

Invisible templates are marked by a puzzle piece icon so they can be interacted with. Users also will be able to see and edit HTML anchors now in section headings.

Users of the TemplateData GUI editor can now set a string as an optional text for the 'deprecated' property in addition to boolean value, which lets you tell users of the template what they should do instead (T90734).

The special character inserter in VisualEditor will soon use the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki will also have the option of creating a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Instructions for customizing the list will be posted at mediawiki.org.

The team is discussing a test of VisualEditor with new users, to see whether they have met their goals of making VisualEditor suitable for those editors. The timing is unknown, but might be relatively soon.

### Let's work together

• Can you translate from English into any other language? Please check this list to see whether more interface translations are needed for your language. Contact us to get an account if you want to help!
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Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!

-Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk), 17:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

## Peak District

Hi there, any chance of cleaning this article up so it can be in WP:OTD on 17 April? Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 13:24, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

## sundial

Hi Clem:

You may want to look at the butchery that Michael Ossipoff (?sp) has just done to the Sundial article.

I feel like taking out a contract on that moron.

DOwenWilliams (talk) 22:15, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dave:I did a lot of correspondence on Michaels talk page see this version and I will do, what I said I would do somewhere around [1] which was to have a look at the issue when I am reunited with my books.

I am now back from doing a Wikipedia tutorial session 280 miles from here in Lancaster and doing quite a bit of photography. I have been logging in, and seen the help you have been offering Michael, but it was pointless for me to join in before I have a clear few hours to spend even to read the comments. I will come back some time tomorrow with a few ideas.

It would be great to organise a meet up sometime. -- 23:51, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Are you 200 miles from Lancaster, in England? I should have been born in Liverpool. but the Germans had put a time-bomb on the roof of the hospital, so my mother did a quick dash to a nursing home in West Kirby, so I was born there. But that was long ago. For the past 40+ years, I've lived here in Canada, so a meet-up would be difficult. Sorry!
I'm going to be busy for the next few days, so I won't be doing much on Wikipedia. I hope, without much confidence, that I will find it wondrously improved when I get back.
Thanks for the thanks.
DOwenWilliams (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
About the same time- my father, who had spent 6 years in the peace time RAF, was transferred to Windsor, Ontario to be trained to operate radios, navigation equiptment and fly advanced aircraft- each time being moved on to something more urgent. He missed out on rationing, austerity, bombs and things.
I have two weeks, before I must visit the Lancashire again. At worst, the article will be identical to your last edit- at best it will similar but far less verbose. Keep you posted. -- 07:46, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Poor guy!
My father was in the RAF, too. He had just qualified as a doctor when war broke out. He volunteered on the first day, and was assigned as a medic on an air station. He spent the whole war on air stations around the UK, and left the RAF with the rank of Flight Lieutenant. The whole time, he never once flew in a plane. They gave him a gun, because some of his patients were German airmen who had been shot down, but they never gave him any bullets to put in it.
I see Michael has done more damage this morning.
DOwenWilliams (talk) 14:40, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Responses from MichaelOssipoff moved to User talk:MichaelOssipoff to keep the conversation in one place.

Hi Clem: I see you and Michael seem to have reached some sort of truce over the declining-reclining sundial. That's good. What else is new? DOwenWilliams (talk) 18:55, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
On the wikifront I have been over on Commons taking, tagging and uploading 300+ photos bbof the scenery around Lancaster University where I was helping at a Editathon with members of the London Mathematics Society. I think the entry requirement is 2 PhDs- which contrasts with teaching sums to 11 to 16 year olds- and Computer Science to bright but over-confident 17yr olds, who have an unshakeable belief that their POV is the only POV. We have a little lull on the Sundial page- I bought the NASS CD of previous articles and I am awaiting its arrival- it should be fun to read- and we'll never be short of a reference again.
A spin off from Lancaster were these two pages- Help:Referencing for beginners/sandbox and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Mathematics/temp You might like to have a look at them- eventually I'd like to replace the current offerings. Then Real-life continues... -- 21:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## Formal mediation has been requested

 The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Article: Sundial. Topic Section: Reclining-Decllining.". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 3 May 2015. Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 03:55, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I have declined:

1. Disagree. WP:RFM/G#PRIOR Can I point you to the long conversation I have had with Michael on his talk page where I am attempting to keep the discussion contained. Have a look also at the conversations with User:DOwenWilliams on my talk page, and the conversation he has had with Michael in the Talk:Sundial#« Cadran bifilaire », Why ? and much that follows. None of this suggests that every other method has been explored, which is a precondition for this procedure- it does suggest a degree of impatience, and a request from Michael for two editors to enter into a considerable amount of WP:OR. If the Mediation Committee does wish to get involved so early in the process I am sure that DOwenWilliams and myself will be willing to assist in every way- but in my case after the UK General Election when I will be less occupied in RL.-- 10:49, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

it is not helpful to split the conversation onto another page. The OR is coming on nicely, the CD has arrived, the address handwritten by Fred Sawyer himself. There are twenty years plus of of copies of Compendium- each one will take a month to read!-- 10:49, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

although I am just about aware of the level of work this will generate I agree with you not at this moment accepting mediation. I have only had one contact with this editor ([2].) if I can assist in anyway I will try Edmund Patrick confer 19:02, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very very much sir for respond for this I am highly obliged of you and please always keep leading as your pupil. Sturdyankit (talk) 02:10, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

## Transfered to editor's talk page

Now on Michaels talk page. Text --108.132.238.27 (talk) 11:41, 26 April 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Keeping it all in one place Transfered comments by 108.132.238.27 to (MichaelOssipoff's talk page (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Thank you very much sir, Let's suppose admin decides No consensus then what happen with my article, Also here are some of Students who won scholarship from Bihar State Shia Wakf Board they are Samsha Khatun and Sadam Hussain having serial no 116378 and 116379 according to http://www.technixindia.com/wakfboard/report-phase2-1011-result.php?page=24 in 2010-11 (2nd phase) Can I add this along with my article's content? Sturdyankit (talk) 12:32, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

## Request for mediation rejected

 The request for formal mediation concerning Article: Sundial. Topic Section: Reclining-Decllining., to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. For the Mediation Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 13:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Halton-with-Aughton, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Coke, Caton and Forges. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## de:user:ClemRutter/sandkiste

Hallo ClemRutter! Mal eine Frage: arbeitest Du noch am Artikel de:user:ClemRutter/sandkiste? Grüße, Doc Taxon (talk) 13:41, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi ClemRutter! Do you still work on de:user:ClemRutter/sandkiste? Greetings, Doc Taxon (talk) 13:41, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

## sunny stuff

Hi Clem:

I'm anticipating the results of the UK election, too. After all, I am still a British citizen. Here in Canada, we've already had one electoral shock this week, when the government of Alberta, which had been conservative for more than 40 years, was dumped down to third place, behind the New Democratic Party (roughly like UK Labour) and the Wild Rose Party, which is a rather primitive right-wing affair. (The wild rose is the provincial flower of Alberta. It grows all over the place there.)

Re the sundial article. I've been doing some edits, which you'll see in the latest version. I think my changes are worth keeping. If you put up your sndbox version, please keep my stuff about the empirical method, and also the small change to the equation of time graph.

Time to wind up my old TV set...

DOwenWilliams (talk) 23:32, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

## VisualEditor News #3—2015

Did you know?

The link tool has been re-designed:

There are separate tabs for linking to internal and external pages.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has created new interfaces for the link and citation tools, as well as fixing many bugs and changing some elements of the design. Some of these bugs affected users of VisualEditor on mobile devices. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.

A test of VisualEditor's effect on new editors at the English Wikipedia has just completed the first phase. During this test, half of newly registered editors had VisualEditor automatically enabled, and half did not. The main goal of the study is to learn which group was more likely to save an edit and to make productive, unreverted edits. Initial results will be posted at Meta later this month.

### Recent improvements

Auto-fill features for citations are available at a few Wikipedias through the citoid service. Citoid takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. If Citoid is enabled on your wiki, then the design of the citation workflow changed during May. All citations are now created inside a single tool. Inside that tool, choose the tab you want (⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-auto⧽, ⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-manual⧽, or ⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-reuse⧽). The cite button is now labeled with the word "⧼visualeditor-toolbar-cite-label⧽" rather than a book icon, and the autofill citation dialog now has a more meaningful label, "⧼Citoid-citeFromIDDialog-lookup-button⧽", for the submit button.

The link tool has been redesigned based on feedback from Wikipedia editors and user testing. It now has two separate sections: one for links to articles and one for external links. When you select a link, its pop-up context menu shows the name of the linked page, a thumbnail image from the linked page, Wikidata's description, and/or appropriate icons for disambiguation pages, redirect pages and empty pages. Search results have been reduced to the first five pages. Several bugs were fixed, including a dark highlight that appeared over the first match in the link inspector (T98085).

The special character inserter in VisualEditor now uses the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki can also create a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Please read the instructions for customizing the list at mediawiki.org. Also, there is now a tooltip to describing each character in the special character inserter (T70425).

Several improvements have been made to templates. When you search for a template to insert, the list of results now contains descriptions of the templates. The parameter list inside the template dialog now remains open after inserting a parameter from the list, so that users don’t need to click on "Add more information" each time they want to add another parameter (T95696). The team added a new property for TemplateData, "Example", for template parameters. This optional, translatable property will show up when there is text describing how to use that parameter (T53049).

The design of the main toolbar and several other elements have changed slightly, to be consistent with the MediaWiki theme. In the Vector skin, individual items in the menu are separated visually by pale gray bars. Buttons and menus on the toolbar can now contain both an icon and a text label, rather than just one or the other. This new design feature is being used for the cite button on wikis where the Citoid service is enabled.

The team has released a long-desired improvement to the handling of non-existent images. If a non-existent image is linked in an article, then it is now visible in VisualEditor and can be selected, edited, replaced, or removed.

### Let's work together

• The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 12:00 (noon) PDT (19:00 UTC). Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal. You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug.
• If you would like to request the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.

Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

## Nomination for deletion of Template:Listed building England

Template:Listed building England has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. PC78 (talk) 17:50, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

## Science Conference

Hi Clem, this is the Wikipedia Science Conference. Leutha (talk) 18:48, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

## Co-op Pilot Results & Mentoring

Hey there! The Co-op has been on a hiatus for a bit, but we are planning on opening up shop again soon. When you're able, please read over and respond to this update on our talk page. We have favorable results from our final report regarding the pilot, and we are interested in seeing who is available to mentor when we reopen our space and begin to send out invites again. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

This message was sent by I JethroBT (talk · contribs) via Mass Message. (Opt-out instructions)
To December 2016

## London sundial

Hi Clem:

It may be worth mentioning that common sundials such as the London one, of which you included an illustration, actually have two styles, one on each edge of the gnomon. One style is used in the forenoon, the other in the afternoon.

DOwenWilliams (talk) 01:11, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I have made a slight change to the indicator line giving it two heads. This was a lot more complex than I thought as Inkscape refuses to read the parameter used in the svg to add a curve to a line- even when it was the program that created it!
I haven't changed the text- as I can't think of a change that would be generic enough, if it is more than four words I think it needs to go onto the caption not the diagram. But I remain open to suggestion. Anyone can clone the diagram and add a new text layer if it is really important to them- but they will have to twiddle inkscape.

-- 11:43, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I've added a couple of sentences to the caption. Another idea might be to write a footnote. (I like footnotes!) DOwenWilliams (talk) 15:17, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited London dial, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Thomas Wright and Thomas Heath. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## Bois du Cazier

Dear sir.

My english is poor. Please have a look to my contribution.Cenec (talk) 07:54, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited London dial, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Silverwork and Henry Sutton. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## Books and Bytes - Issue 12

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 12, May-June 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

• New donations - Taylor & Francis, Science, and three new French-language resources
• Expansion into new languages, including French, Finnish, Turkish, and Farsi
• Spotlight: New partners for the Visiting Scholar program
• American Library Association Annual meeting in San Francisco

The Interior 15:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

## VisualEditor News #4—2015

Did you know?

You can add quotations marks before and after a title or phrase with a single click.

Select the relevant text. Find the correct quotations marks in the special character inserter tool (marked as Ω in the toolbar).

Click the button. VisualEditor will add the quotation marks on either side of the text you selected.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team have been working on mobile phone support. They have fixed many bugs and improved language support. They post weekly status reports on mediawiki.org. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving language support and functionality on mobile devices.

### Wikimania

The team attended Wikimania 2015 in Mexico City. There they participated in the Hackathon and met with individuals and groups of users. They also made several presentations about VisualEditor and the future of editing.

Following Wikimania, we announced winners for the VisualEditor 2015 Translathon. Our thanks and congratulations to users Halan-tul, Renessaince, जनक राज भट्ट (Janak Bhatta), Vahe Gharakhanyan, Warrakkk, and Eduardogobi.

For interface messages (translated at translatewiki.net), we saw the initiative affecting 42 languages. The average progress in translations across all languages was 56.5% before the translathon, and 78.2% after (+21.7%). In particular, Sakha improved from 12.2% to 94.2%; Brazilian Portuguese went from 50.6% to 100%; Taraškievica went from 44.9% to 85.3%; Doteli went from 1.3% to 41.2%. Also, while 1.7% of the messages were outdated across all languages before the translathon, the percentage dropped to 0.8% afterwards (-0.9%).

For documentation messages (on mediawiki.org), we saw the initiative affecting 24 languages. The average progress in translations across all languages was 26.6% before translathon, and 46.9% after (+20.3%). There were particularly notable achievements for three languages. Armenian improved from 1% to 99%; Swedish, from 21% to 99%, and Brazilian Portuguese, from 34% to 83%. Outdated translations across all languages were reduced from 8.4% before translathon to 4.8% afterwards (-3.6%).

We published some graphs showing the effect of the event on the Translathon page. Thank you to the translators for participating and the translatewiki.net staff for facilitating this initiative.

### Recent improvements

Auto-fill features for citations can be enabled on each Wikipedia. The tool uses the citoid service to convert a URL or DOI into a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. You can see an animated GIF of the quick, simple process at mediawiki.org. So far, about a dozen Wikipedias have enabled the auto-citation tool. To enable it for your wiki, follow the instructions at mediawiki.org.

Your wiki can customize the first section of the special character inserter in VisualEditor. Please follow the instructions at mediawiki.org to put the characters you want at the top.

In other changes, if you need to fill in a CAPTCHA and get it wrong, then you can click to get a new one to complete. VisualEditor can now display and edit Vega-based graphs. If you use the Monobook skin, VisualEditor's appearance is now more consistent with other software.

### Future changes

On the English Wikipedia, 10% of newly created accounts are now offered both the visual and the wikitext editors. A recent controlled trial showed no significant difference in survival or productivity for new users in the short term. New users with access to VisualEditor were very slightly less likely to produce results that needed reverting. You can learn more about this by watching a video of the July 2015 Wikimedia Research Showcase. The proportion of new accounts with access to both editing environments will be gradually increased over time. Eventually all new users have the choice between the two editing environments.

### Let's work together

• Can you read and type in Korean or Japanese? Language engineer David Chan needs people who know which tools people use to type in some languages. If you speak Japanese or Korean, you can help him test support for these languages. Please see the instructions at mw:VisualEditor/IME Testing#What to test if you can help.
• If your wiki would like VisualEditor enabled on another namespace, you can file a request in Phabricator. Please include a link to a community discussion about the requested change.
• Please file requests for language-appropriate "Bold" and "Italic" icons for the styling menu in Phabricator.
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## Postpone the Manchester Meetup?

You may want to comment at meta:Talk:Meetup/Manchester/30#Postponement. Yaris678 (talk) 11:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

## Public art lists

I wrote a blog post and am busy on social media and mailing lists, trying to encourage more people to create or contribute to locality-based lists of public art. Can you help, for your part of the world? Please look out for newbie contributions, assist the editors and tidy up as needed. Please help to publicise this drive, too! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

## Event at Clitheroe Castle

Here is the information about the event at Clitheroe Castle Wikipedia:GLAM/Clitheroe Castle Museum. I'll get in touch next week. Jhayward001 (talk) 08:37, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

## Pont du Gard intro

Clem, I reverted back your revert of my clean-up of the Pont du Gard intro, which I did not undertake lightly. The intro sentence as I came upon it was much too cumbersome and overflowing with geographic and linguistic references. Such aspects can be presented later in an article if necessary. Plus, there is no need to link every single geographic name in a sentence or paragraph; at a certain point it becomes a distraction rather than a help. For example, if readers are curious, they need only follow the Gardon link to learn all about the river's name and geography. And I seriously doubt anyone has dubbed this aqueduct the Pont-du-Gard Bridge in an English reference work before now. I think a dispassionate read of both versions will make my observations clear. Eric talk 19:13, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

@Eric: I am glad you have come back to me. My edit was interrupted by a call to dinner and needed refining. I object to the Gard, being referred to as the Gard river, as the European convention is to but the word river first. In this case the river is the Gardon- the word river is not used. The Pont-du-Gard has always been the Pont-du-Gard in English, and never the Pont-du-Gard Bridge or Pont-du-Gard bridge but this is a better wording than saying (Literally:Gard Bridge). If for nothing else that the du in French is a genitive and must be expressed in English as Bridge of Gard or Gard's Bridge.
The Pont du Gard (Gard Bridge) is an ancient Roman aqueduct bridge *1 that crosses the Gardon River in the south of France *2. Located in near *3 the town of Vers-Pont-du-Gard, the bridge is part of the Nîmes aqueduct, a 50 km-long (31 mi) *4 structure built by the Romans *5 to carry water from a spring at Uzès to the Roman colony of Nemausus (Nîmes)[4] *6 Because the terrain between the two points is hilly, the aqueduct – built mostly underground – took a long, winding route that crossed the gorge of the Gardon, requiring the construction of an aqueduct bridge. Built in the first century AD, the Pont du Gard is the highest of all Roman aqueduct bridges and is, with the Aqueduct of Segovia, one of the *7 best preserved. It was added to UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites in 1985 because of its historical importance.
• 1 aqueduct bridge is not English- as in English aqueduct has two meanings- a water course and a bridge carrying water Agree; the construction caught my eye initially as odd, but I assumed that the writer was working from a precedent I had yet to encounter. I changed it.
• 2 not specific enough I tend towards a brief general geographic reference for an initial sentence.
• 3 in near Typo, fixed.
• 4 mi non standard abbreviation Didn't initially jump out at me as out of line, so I left it. Now changed; see what you think. I don't always think every distance on wp needs a conversion, and I don't like how those conversion templates apparently can't accommodate proper hyphenation when a distance is expressed as an adjective preceding a noun.
• 5 of course the Romans built a Roman aqueduct Yes. Nixed.
• 6 Because the terrain between the two points is hilly, the aqueduct – built mostly underground – took a long, winding route that crossed the gorge of the Gardon, requiring the construction of an aqueduct bridge. - I probably wrote this but it is awful- the terrain is not hilly- it is a deeply incised valley, formed at the time of the Alpine uplift. Is this the Gorge du Gardon [www.gorgesdugardon.fr/index.php/Géologie-et-Paysages?idpage=12&afficheMenuContextuel=true#6] even though Vers Pont du Gard is a commune in the Grande site sydicat- just a question. Again problem with the term aqueduct bridge (its fine in French pont-aqueduct).
• 7 it is the best preserved but probably needs a reference That sentence didn't strike me as terrible. It seems the Gorges du Gardon is a nature preserve: fr:Gorges_du_Gardon. I tweaked that part--see what you think.
Going back to the question of name- the Gard is a department, the Gard is a French translation of the Occitan word Gardon. Gardon is the river. (look at official publications from the department) Yes this lede does need to be changed- I gave it a shaking but freely admit it can be done better. So, over to you.-- 00:49, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello Clem- I replied to your listed comments in italics above. I agree re the awkwardness of "Gard Bridge"--that struck me at the outset as unnecessary at best. Re the hyphenated "Pont-du-Gard", I've never seen that in English or French. In a brief rummaging through the web, including on fr.wp, I could not find any definitive etymology re Gard/Gardon. Nothing here: fr:Gardon_(rivière) nor on fr:Histoire_du_Gard. Interesting musing here on Etymologie-Occitane.fr Eric talk 13:30, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

## Meetups in Liverpool and Manchester

See you there?

Hi there! Do you know that there will be meetups in Liverpool on the 27th of September and in Manchester on the 25th of October?

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## Clitheroe Booklets

For the training sessions on the 19th September I have produced these two booklets--comments welcome they will probably be around at the litheroe Castle Museum Edit-a-thon on 26th September.

From the feedback the files have been reworked - these are both usable but I will continue fiddling with the fonts. I need to look at the maths section in the intermediate and write the page on writing templates. Here are the drop box links

-- 10:22, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

-- 20:11, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

## Sat 19 Sept

Thanks for the instruction - great fun — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lccrudge (talkcontribs) 11:18, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

## hello

Hi Clem this is Katharine Lovejoy

## training 19.09.15

Hi Clem Thanks for the morning training. Suzanne

Hi Clem, Thank you for a great course. Here is my user name. Jhayward001 (talk) 11:20, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

## Help us improve wikimeets by filling in the UK Wikimeet survey!

Hello! I'm running a survey to identify the best way to notify Wikimedians about upcoming UK wikimeets (informal, in-person social meetings of Wikimedians), and to see if we can improve UK wikimeets to make them accessible and attractive to more editors and readers. All questions are optional, and it will take about 10 minutes to complete. Please fill it in at:

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## Mills in Clitheroe

Hi Clem, I've been busy tracing the various mills in Clitheroe. A couple of issues remain, one being Claremont Mill, I can find no trace and am thinking that it is confused for Brewery Mill. Also I've removed Greenacre Mill to leave Holmes Mill as I'm fairly sure that they are one and the same. I don't have access to the Ashmore source used in List of mills in Lancashire maybe it sheds more light? --Trappedinburnley (talk) 18:23, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll see you on Saturday- but in the meantime we could knock together a List of mills in Clitheroe article on the lines of List of mills in Preston (oops that needs urgently improving!). Ashmore is at the moment in Rochester and I am in Newcastle. I was just browsing through 'Mill Trutex Clitheroe' which is Jubilee Mill, I found a Westmorland Gazette ref: http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/10333588.Clitheroe_school_uniform_firm_Trutex_takes_over_Rochdale_company/ . Whether it is Thornber's Mill, Holmes or Greenacre it does seem to be the same. The mills seem to have a Builder Name, A location name or/and Occupants name. I think that Claremont could be an occupant- I'll keep searching. But look at Claremont Ave, and Claremont Drive, 53.865525, -2.384059. Also this Carlton Mill -- 19:44, 20 September 2015 (UTC)b
List of Mills in Clitheroe seems a good idea, we have taken over the project page somewhat. I was thinking Trutex deserved a mention on the Clitheroe article, but I had no idea it is so old. They started building Claremont Ave after WWII. MARIO has aerial imagery from that period, nothing much there except Goosebutts Farm. However Claremont House survives, on Pendle Rd at the junction with Goosebutts Ln. In 1890 it was separated from Brewery Mill by a pond, now filled-in under Highmoor Park (road). From the view of the Castle, Carlton Mill seems to have been Victoria Mill, which I had missed.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 11:22, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

## Books and Bytes - Issue 13

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 13, August-September 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

• New donations - EBSCO, IMF, more newspaper archives, and Arabic resources
• Expansion into new languages, including Viet and Catalan
• Spotlight: Elsevier partnership garners controversy, dialogue
• Conferences: PKP, IFLA, upcoming events

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:29, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

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## Draft:Jules Wright

I have been asked to advise on this- can I open this invitation. I have never encountered this procedure before- the subject seems notable ( Obits- in 3 newspapers +Radio 4)- a well referenced article being criticised for being too chummy. A bio about a notable women? What am I missing? -- 08:40, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

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## October 2015

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Clog may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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• a welt, adecorative strip of soft leathe,r would be nailed over to conceal the joint. Fasteners (clasps, eyes or buttons would go on and finally a protective toe-tin.<ref> Interpretive leaflet

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## Clog

Hello ClemRutter,

Thank you for adding an extensive section Manufacturing English Clogs at the page clog. However, I removed it. This because there exist a page for English Clogs, which you can find here: Clog (British). The page Clog is an introduction page for clogs worldwide. The gallery with pictures gives links to national clogs. So also to English clog. Thanks again for your interest. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 05:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

## VisualEditor News #5—2015

Did you know?
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Click the pencil icon to open the editor for a page. Inside that, use the gear menu in the upper right corner to "Switch to visual editing".

The editing button will remember which editing environment you used last time, and give you the same one next time. The desktop site will be switching to a system similar to this one in the coming months.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has fixed many bugs, added new features, and made some small design changes. They post weekly status reports on mediawiki.org. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for languages like Japanese and Arabic, making it easier to edit on mobile devices, and providing rich-media tools for formulæ, charts, galleries and uploading.

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### Future changes

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### Let's work together

Whatamidoing (WMF) 04:16, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

## SFN

Thanks for knocking the citations on the clogs page into shape. I see you had fun with the Owen references. The normal way of doing it is documented at Template:Sfn#More than one work in a year and simply consists of adding a lowercase letter to the year. However, your use of {{SfnRef}} is fine as an alternative. Thanks once again, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:43, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Its quite quick if you take the copy to a texteditor (pluma, gedit) and do global replace. I am not up to speed with citation- mainly using the cite templates- 2012a has a few limitation when dealing with older newbies- but do change it if you wish. Are you going to have a go at Clog dance this weekend. In my idle hours I am looking for a reference to support User:Berkh assertion on Clog that will take some lateral thinking. -- 10:15, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your help and work on the Clog (British) page, sir. Berkh (talk) 10:55, 31 October 2015 (UTC).

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## Sundial

Hello. Why did you remove the picture from the article? You said that the picture adds nothing to the article, even though it is a picture of a sundial, if nothing it helps illustrate the article better. VS6507 (talk) 09:26, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Picture in question
Thanks for showing an interest- In the Commons:Vertical sundials there are 1,243 images, and further sub- categories. Your dial is a simple modern dial, of a south west vertical declining (afternoon dial) The dial vertical points to 12.45- that is an offset of 45mins time- or about 12 degrees east. The web site locates the centre at 44° 14’ 50’’ N & 19° 55’ 50’’ E which is an offset of 20 degrees- or 80mins. This is a little puzzling. This dial appears to have a sub-style of zero- so as SD= arctan (sin d/tam φ) this seems to be a co-incidence. Neither this image or the article Petnica Science Center is geotagged.
Looking at the image, the motto is fuzzy and to the right there is wasted space. The image needs to be cropped.
As the motto says Sumnjaj da bi razumeo- and this has led to a useful discussion. -- 12:28, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Moot Hall Sundial
Thanks for the useful comments. The image is not the best quality one; I might take a better shot in the future.
According to Google, Petnica Center is probably located at 44.246540=44° 14' 48'' N, 19.930834=19° 55' 51'' E [3], so that's quite similar to your coordinates. I think we can use this for geotagging. This dial's vertical is pointed to 1, and Aldeburgh is close to 1st meridian east, but this doesn't seem to be the case with the sundial in Petnica. Frankly, I don't know much about trigonometry or math for that matter, I'd need more studying in that field... I've contacted the Center, though, asking them if they can tell me more about this type of dial. I'll let you know if they reply.
As for cropping, I could do that tomorrow. Regards, Alex (talk) 19:57, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

So, can you tell me what else is needed to include this pic in the page? Alex (talk) 22:39, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

## Clitheroe Booklets (2)

For the training sessions I have produced these three booklets--comments welcome- They were used at the

From the feedback the files have been reworked - I will continue fiddling with them. I need to look at the maths section in the intermediate and write the page on writing templates. Here are the drop box links

-- 21:48, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

## Clog (British)

Hi Clem. Is there a reason for adding Atkinson and Cahill to external links? Both pages are given in the references section above. I'd revert, but someone of your standing probably does have a good reason. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:53, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Cahill for balance (weak)but Atkinson- it is his five videos this Rough cutting this Hollowing this Uppers this Clasps Clog and Pattern) I am after. He has done them using Vimeo, and I can't find a clear CC-BY-SA statement- which possibly was an oversight- he comments a lot on Clogging videos for instance NWFilm archive ([https://vimeo.com/album/3066221/video/107803204 this). All those videos I would like to see on commons--but before that I think we need to have them clearly placed- then someone can phone and ask him whether he is willing to put a CC-BY-SA tag on them so we can go the copy them over. Walkley's are not using traditional techniques but use machines- not the wood or the technique described.
I am searching for illustrations of Blockers, Hollowers etc- Cahill has one, Chris Brady this but copyright unclear.And Now, Stock knife has an illustration- but it is not of a blocker-goodness knows what it is. So that is the evil plan.
Think is a about time to do the Clog dancing split. More later this week. -- 12:58, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm not querying the usefulness of Atkison & Cahill, just whether the same page needs to be referenced in two succeeding sections? I've been a bit busy recently so I haven't taken up your earlier challenge. If you want to run with it, good luck! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I've just seen the extra Atkinson videos, so fair enough, comment withdrawn. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I rely on you- to challenge my mistakes. Just too bad that you don't do the London meet-up or I can buy you a pint. -- 14:21, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
This is the state of Clog dancing draft It is still littered with copyvios which I am slowly culling but I think the structure is right. I am minded to redirect Clog-dancing to a new page Clog dancing as I can't see the logic of the dash. Any thoughts? -- 22:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi Clem. I've had a look at the draft and it seems fine. Possibly the lead is a bit long and repeats too much detail from the history section, but that can be better précised once the body has been knocked into shape. Keep up the good work! I might try to get to a London meetup, but at the moment family life is a bit hectic (2 teenage sons) and London is a pain to get to these days! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:35, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello ClemRutter, The videos are very interesting. I further searched a bit on Clitheroe Castle Museum and found out there is an exposition of the work of a local retired traditional clog maker. I was wondering if there is also a permanent collection of (international) clogs? Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 19:31, 12 November 2015 (UTC).

Sadly, not yet- the aim of the museum was to represent aspects of local life- (auf Deutsch- Es is heute nur ein Heimats museum.) Send me an email and we can talk more freely. Clem.-- 19:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello ClemRutter, I am searching for the email option, but I can not find it. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 09:48, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
User page- Tools - 5th option down or here ( I am off out with my granddaughter now- till this evening) -- 10:15, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

A note: Dutch clog dancing, or klompendansen is hardly existing. If it really existed (organised) at all. I seems more something that in the past happened spontaneous. I can't remember I have seen it for real. Klompendansen as an expression is on the other hand well known. Putting on klompen and a traditional dress is more something for Dutch emigrants in Holland, Michigan, USA. Pictures of it there seem to me a hodgepodge of traditional clothing from the West of the Netherlands. The clothing you only see in Volendam and Alkmaar. What tourists see and associate with Holland. Clothing in the North, East and South is different. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 19:54, 12 November 2015 (UTC).

I take that on board-- 20:09, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

## Public housing in the United Kingdom

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## Audio in Taxobox

FYI. Cheers, Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:53, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

## Terraced housing

Hi. I'd been thinking of doing a content fork of Terraced house for some time, after I explained to my (American) partner what a typical 3-up 2-down terraced house was like. I started Draft:Terraced houses in the United Kingdom, thinking there were no other comparable articles, then came across Byelaw terraced house which you also started recently. We probably need to merge the two articles together, as the one I started is wider in scope and covers all terraces, rather than just the stereotypical Victorian ones. How do you think we should proceed? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:44, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi - great to hear from you. Two months ago I would have agreed- I wrote the Byelaw terraced house article in frustration at finding a term I hadn't heard before which didn't have a WP article. I also saw a problem with Council house- but a with little brute force, I forked it into Council House and Public housing in the United Kingdom. The source material is incredible rich and my thoughts are changing on a daily basis. And there is great cross over.
So with my hidden agenda of total world domination before Xmas- I think we should focus Draft:Terraced houses in the United Kingdom as the overview article with Byelaw terraced housing as a more specific child article, along with ones on Georgian terraces, London terraces with mews, Packed earth floor back-to-backs Tenements.
• "The History of Council Housing". The History of Council Housing. University of the West of England. Retrieved 19 November 2015. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link) is a great source
RW Brunskill, has written many articles on pre- 1900 vernacular building types- I have several; but haven 't drilled down to find much on council housing or privately built terraces. Time factor.
My thoughts were that council house, should be mainly about the bricks and mortar- ground plans elevations etc. The designed changed radically from 1910 to 1960, when we had the tower block interlude. Public housing in the United Kingdom should take the housing unit as a commodity and explain the philosophy, sociology and politics of publically provided units- I haven't started to shape that yet- the different sections between the two articles will link like the rungs of a ladder. My interest started from the physical bricks and mortar but there are so many spin offs.
Back to the humble terrace- you can date a Byelaw house by its feature- for instance the lintels over the windows- starting with the brick lintels that key into the one brick solid walls at 70 degree angle- the cast stone replacements that key in at 70, the cast stone flat lintels that rest on 9" footings and disperse the force vertically. Concrete with stone facings- steel with stone or brick facings. etc This needs expanding. Plumbing evolution, the acceptance of water closet within the house (so unhygenic- it will never catch on), the change from scullery to kitchen... so the byelaw article is resting until I have time to reference and add these details. It has the potential to become massive. This was a period when planning and building control were becoming established- many of these houses were not designed by an architect, but bought from a pattern book that the builder maintained. (still haven't found one) Architectural practices were involved in estate layout (I think)
Parkinson-Bailey Parkinson-Bailey, John J. (2000). Manchester: an Architectural History. Manchester: Manchester University Press. ISBN 0-7190-5606-3. has a great chapter on Housing in the Nineteenth Century which has two good quotes about the working classes: ..there is no great hardship for people of this class to share a scullery with another family; they have for the most part been doing this most of their lives... This and UWE are good sources for an article on Pre 1875 urban terraced houses. I am now looking for material for Interwar terraced houses. It seems to be out there just uncategorised.
More later- I have been interrupted again. -- 18:32, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
I've moved the draft article to mainspace, so it's now at Terraced houses in the United Kingdom, and added some more information from that UWE source. I had a look at some of the other articles on that website as well. The article is now about 1350 words, which is a reasonable introduction to a topic and a suitable spin-off from the main Terraced house article, so I think we should be able to accommodate this topic fairly well. I think the next thing to look at is the various types of estates that spring up in the 19th century, and why - I know all about the terraces in South Wales because my grandparents lived there and it's one of the best surviving examples of basic terraced housing in the entire country, but I'd like to know more about why there are large amounts of uninhabited terraces in Liverpool and Greater Manchester and what exactly caused it to happen. There was that episode of DIY SOS recently where a team of people banded together to completely restore a street.
Part of the motivation to write about this topic is trying to find out more about various memories I have, such as wondering why the house I used to live in, a 1900s terrace, looked identical to all the others in the street, except for the downstairs bathrooms, which had all been retro-fitted individually in completely different styles depending on who did it. Why are typical Victorian or Edwardian terrace houses basically all the same design with variations? And why are pairs of terraces that still have the original finish on them named "<name> villas"? (random example found on StreetView) And how and when did electricity, running water and (ultimately) central heating get retrofitted into all of them? Questions, questions. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
With gross unreferenced generalisations-- Jobs moved to the towns- Manchester, Leeds, South East London, round the mills, foundries and shipyards and factories. Economic growth was constrained by the number of labourers you could get. Children from the workhouses were cheap but even then you had to house them within walking distance of the factory gate. You needed tenements or houses. Maximum density was achieved in back-t--backs or round courtyards- the earthcloset of privies were at the end of the street, disease and pollution killed of the labourers faster than you could replace them.
There is a rich vein of houses around here to be examined

Suggestion Hi Clem Thanks for your message to-day. I agree with you. It would be very nice to have an infobox containing the relevant facts on the artist and an image that encapsulates the artists style of painting.(snowpatrol 20:18, 21 November 2015 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seascaper (talkcontribs)

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===Patrick Hennessy(painter)

To clear up the confusion regarding the Irish Census.John Hennessy(Patricks father)being in the army was stationed at Athlone(Westmeath)in 1911 along with his wife Bridget,son Dennis and daughter Bridget.To verify the entry further please see Dundee Courier 1/5/37.Marriage entry:Miss Brida Hennessy-eldest daughter of the late sergeant major J.Hennessy-Leinster Regiment and of Mrs Duncan,9 bridge Streetsnowpatrol 15:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seascaper (talkcontribs)

## Lancashire GLAM

Hi Clem, how's it going? Thanks for posting this, I was aware that funding cuts where likely, but this is a shock. I'm particularly worried about QSM, as it seems so much would have to be done so quickly to save it. I believe there is an Christmas event at Helmshore on Saturday. Not my usual scene but I think I'm going to pop down and see what people are thinking about the future.

You may have noticed that I've not been around for a while, but I have continued with Clitheroe Castle offline, time permitting, and merged it back in the other day. It has been hard work, as it turns out that just about everything about its history is disputed, especially its origin. I've sill got a few bits to tidy-up, one being the referencing on your geology section. Where you aware that you haven't actually ref'd the Kabrna book that you added to the Bibliography? I'm currently in two minds whether to put it through the GA process in the future. Trappedinburnley (talk) 20:04, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

I've been distracted. Without going into the gory details, its been dicky birds at the British Library, and a daughter moving house to Nottingham. So, I have looked at Kabrna again and realised why I put him down.
As I understand it- the baserock of 838 m of Chatburn limestone was deposited in flat shallow (75-100m) warm falling seas seas about 360 MA (milions of years)[1] . About 351MA it tilted and the sea level increased and this marked the start of the Clitheroe limestones (both in the Bowland High group- of the western european Tornnaisian stage of Carboniferous [2] )
The mud mounds were thought by Tiddeman (1889) & Parkinson to be mound like accumulations of biogenic material[3] Vaughan (1916) recognised the fossil content was the same as in the Waulsortian limestones/mudstones in Belgian, in the 50s it was found that the mounds did not have the skeletal frameworks created by living organisms- so it was not a reef. They were created by lime mud, flowing in from elsewhere Lees(2006) [4]. The clue was looking at the Crinoids.
In 1972 Miller and Grayson described the mudmound having a core or bank bed. This developed in a low energy system and could be a stack of mounds. They are surrounded by thick bedded looser flank beds deposited in more turbulent waters--these merge into flat deposited inter-bank beds which can also occur in non Waulsortian conditions. [5]
Wallsortian mudmounds occur in two layers in the Clitheroe Limestone, the Coplow Limestone Member, and again in the Bellman Limestone Member which is upto 800m deep. Clitheroe castle is a Bellman member Wallsortian mudmound [6] This is around 346.3 MA. The sea-level was falling leaving an unconformity, and the base platform was fracturing. We ane entering the Viséan (Craven Group). These formation would be further fractured by the varican orogeny [7]
There are also a couple references on [8]

### References

1. ^ Kabrna 2011, pp. 16-19.
2. ^ Kabrna 2011, p. 11.
3. ^ Kabrna 2011, pp. 19, 10.
4. ^ Kabrna 2011, p. 20.
5. ^ Kabrna 2011, p. 22.
6. ^ Kabrna 2011, p. 27.
7. ^ Kabrna 2011, p. 49.
8. ^ Kabrna 2011, p. 165.

Clitheroe Castle looks very good-

And to QSM and Helmshore- my thoughts are secure the mill by forming a single issue trust, buying it for a pound, and get Museum of Science and Industry to 'adopt it' and pay to run it , using European money to establish a world heritage site- or partner with Tuchfabrik Müller to form a European ring of Textile History. To save them coffee mornings wont be enough. LCC Museums officers probably have several viable ideas but need to gauge the professional support they can get locally- so lobby to establish management committee so organisations have someone to talk to. I know it sounds impossible- PS Medway Queen is still progressing- they has a lot of support from the Boilermakers Union. I am an email away -if I can be of any use. 23:24, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

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## ArbCom elections are now open!

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## Thanks for the Education RFC post

The answer is that anything can happen if we want it to happen badly enough. This is our chance to steer the ship. I have simply made a proposal. That starts discussion. Where that leads I have no idea. Fiddle Faddle 12:14, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

## Problematic editor

Hi - I can't help noticing you are having a bit of bother with an editor on the Naturist page - I believe you might be interested in this sockpuppet investigation, as I think Queenmiss/Victoriaa11 is very probably the same person as Utbindas/Shreyoshidasgupta - and the recent editing patterns are really supporting this. I can't help wondering if this is an editor who's been blocked/suspended before, given how au fait they appear to be with the Wikipedia system. Anyway, just a heads-up that there's something strange going on here. I'm mostly leaving them to their antics for the time being, pending the outcome of the investigation, but couldn't help noticing odd patterns/similarities, and I think the more editors that are aware to keep an eye on things, the better. Mabalu (talk) 12:07, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

## Books and Bytes - Issue 14

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 14, October-November 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

• New donations - Gale, Brill, plus Finnish and Farsi resources
• Open Access Week recap, and DOIs, Wikipedia, and scholarly citations
• Spotlight: 1Lib1Ref - a citation drive for librarians

The Interior, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

## December 2015

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Pre-regulation terraced houses in the United Kingdom

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## Best wishes for the holidays...

 Season's Greetings Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Adoration of the Shepherds (Poussin) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod (talk) 10:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

## VisualEditor News #6—2015

Did you know?

A new, simpler system for editing will offer a single Edit button. Once the page has opened, you can switch back and forth between visual and wikitext editing.

If you prefer having separate edit buttons, then you can set that option in your preferences, either in a pop-up dialog the next time you open the visual editor, or by going to Special:Preferences and choosing the setting that you want:

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Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has fixed many bugs and expanded the mathematics formula tool. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for languages such as Japanese and Arabic, and providing rich-media tools for formulæ, charts, galleries and uploading.

### Recent improvements

You can switch from the wikitext editor to the visual editor after you start editing.

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In 2016, the feedback pages for the visual editor on many Wikipedias will be redirected to mediawiki.org. (T92661)

### Testing opportunities

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• Can you read and type in Korean or Japanese? Language engineer David Chan needs people who know which tools people use to type in some languages. If you speak Japanese or Korean, you can help him test support for these languages. Please see the instructions at mw:VisualEditor/IME Testing#What to test if you can help, and report it on Phabricator (Korean - Japanese) or on Wikipedia (Korean - Japanese).

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## Confessional Thanks

Dear ClemRutter, I must confess that many of the duplicated internal links in the Roy Hart article were mine. And I wanted to thank you for pointing out my misunderstanding of linking policy. I am learning as I go, and suffer sometimes from punctilliousness in the wrong places. When I have finsihed working on the next articles I am currently researching, I will go back through those to which I have made a major contribution and rectify the same issue. And in future I will just link to the fist mention, in accordance with your note. Many thanks, and apologies for my misunderstanding. Prolumbo (talk) 11:11, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

To December 2016

## Flow

Per discussion at Village Pump technical: WP:Flow is the WMF's explanation/documentation/sales-pitch for Flow. But more usefully you can give it a try. You can freely make test posts at mw:Talk:Sandbox. I would have linked you to the local EnWiki Flow testing page, but it died when an admin tried testing admin tools on it. Alsee (talk) 00:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

## Course February

Hi, I am on your course.--AvianLee (talk) 18:55, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

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Tooting
Totterdown Fields

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## Ebbsfleet

Hi ClemRutter, Never thought I'd say this but thanks for reverting!, For some reason the images looked like they were taken at different locations (I don't think the captions helped!) which is actually why I removed them, Had I realized they were actually taken at Ebbsfleet I wouldn't of removed them so thanks again for reverting :), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 22:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

If the weather were better I may do some more. I am now trying to put together a few neutral paragraphs on the Ebbsfleet Valley housing fiasco. There is a lot of background work, ABC city was being quoted but that was a redlink-- I have multiple spreadsheets open as HMRC is knocking at my door too. Keep up the conversation.-- 14:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

## War memorials

Hi Clem, was good to see you today. If you get the chance (and the weather!) for an excursion, there are three war memorials I need photos of in Kent. They're in Maidstone (which is nice and easy for you!), Rolvenden, and Sandhurst (no, not that Sandhurst!). We do have some photos of them all on Commons (c:Category:Maidstone Cenotaph‎, c:Category:Rolvenden war memorial‎, and c:Category:Sandhurst war memorial, Kent), so it's not urgent—I'll have illustrations for when I do finally get round to writing the articles—but they're not great quality and they're low resolution. We do have a nice sharp photo of Rolvenden's, but it's side-on! Anything you can do would be great but a comprehensive survey with photos from all angles would be absolutely fantastic. In return, I promise I'll use some of them in articles! Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:06, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

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## Next meetups in North-West England

Hello. This is just to let you know that the next wikimeets in North-West England will take place in:

Please sign up on the relevant wikimeet page if you can make them! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:07, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

## Samuel Bridgman Russell

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## Help! Am I missing something

Hi Clem. Can you help me out? I am not by any means averse to criticism, and have worked hard since joining to address all issues raised on any article I have written. I have just finished a very long process of authoring Autonomous sensory meridian response. I got way to involved probably. But I really felt it was my best article so far. A user has placed templates saying it lacks structure and flow, and may need re-writing entirely to meet quality standards. If this is true, then really, there is little point me continuing, because it is the best I can do. Does it really need rewriting? Does it really lack structure and flow? It is not that I am claiming it is faultless by any means. But the specific faults pointed out seem to me way off. Tell me straight. Many many thanks! Prolumbo (talk) 07:37, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Its all there, but if you are an A level student- its a bit difficult to navigate. Give me fifteen minutes and I add a bit of hierarchy to the sub-headings and we well see how it reads. Then I will compare it with an article on a similar subject and jiggle the sections around. Back soon. -- 10:21, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
@Prolumbo: I have made a few changes- I think now, you clean up any errors I have made and wait for a respond. Then take it from there. Hope that helps. 10:25, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

## Wikipedia January Editathon

Hello Clem, I hope this works!--Eburdett (talk) 11:58, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

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## Trouble at t'Mill

I was sorry to hear the news about the planned closure of museums in Lancashire. If you, Andy or others make plans to take action while they are still open, please let me know. Andrew D. (talk) 20:24, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

## Precious anniversary

cotton mills ... you were recipient no. 399 of Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:59, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Four years now! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

## Books & Bytes - Issue 15

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 15, December-January 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs)

• New donations - Ships, medical resources, plus Arabic and Farsi resources
• #1lib1ref campaign summary and highlights
• New branches and coordinators

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:19, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

## Resource-based learning

Hi Clem, I have just started the Resource-based learning article, which i thought might be of interest to you. Leutha (talk) 23:23, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

## VisualEditor News #1—2016

Did you know?
Among experienced editors, the visual editor's table editing is one of the most popular features.
If you select the top of a column or the end of a row, you can quickly insert and remove columns and rows.

Now, you can also rearrange columns and rows. Click "Move before" or "Move after" to swap the column or row with its neighbor.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has fixed many bugs. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for Japanese, Korean, Arabic, Indic, and Han scripts, and improving the single edit tab interface.

### Recent changes

You can switch from the wikitext editor to the visual editor after you start editing. This function is available to nearly all editors at most wikis except the Wiktionaries and Wikisources.

Many local feedback pages for the visual editor have been redirected to mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.

You can now re-arrange columns and rows in tables, as well as copying a row, column or any other selection of cells and pasting it in a new location.

The formula editor has two options: you can choose "Quick edit" to see and change only the LaTeX code, or "Edit" to use the full tool. The full tool offers immediate preview and an extensive list of symbols.

### Future changes

The single edit tab project will combine the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab. This is similar to the system already used on the mobile website. (T102398) Initially, the "Edit" tab will open whichever editing environment you used last time. Your last editing choice will be stored as an account preference for logged-in editors, and as a cookie for logged-out users. Logged-in editors will have these options in the Editing tab of Special:Preferences:

• Remember my last editor,
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• Always give me the source editor, and
• Show me both editor tabs. (This is the state for people using the visual editor now.)

The visual editor uses the same search engine as Special:Search to find links and files. This search will get better at detecting typos and spelling mistakes soon. These improvements to search will appear in the visual editor as well.

The visual editor will be offered to all editors at most "Phase 6" Wikipedias during the next few months. The developers would like to know how well the visual editor works in your language. They particularly want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on mediawiki.org. This will affect the following languages: Japanese, Korean, Urdu, Persian, Arabic, Tamil, Marathi, Malayalam, Hindi, Bengali, Assamese, Thai, Aramaic and others.

### Let's work together

Whatamidoing (WMF) 17:46, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-detached

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One of the editors attending your edit-a-thon, Tamasine22 is engaging in some editing practices at Extant Theatre Company that I wouldn't really expect from one learning from an expert such as yourself. Would you mind taking a look? Thanks. R. A. Simmons Talk 15:58, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. We are watching them all- they have enthusiasm but there is a long way to go still. We are encouraging them now to edit each others articles- so we will see how that goes. Please do keep a watchful eye too and pass any further advice to them on their talk pages. -- 16:23, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Will do, thanks. R. A. Simmons Talk 17:47, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

## UK Wikimeet survey results

Hello. This is a quick note to let you know that the results of the UK wikimeet survey have now been posted on Meta at m:UK Wikimeet survey 2015. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:01, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

@Leutha: I have left comments on the related talk page m:Talk:UK Wikimeet survey 2015.--ClemRutter (talk) 15:24, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

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## Lancashire Museums

If you have not seen the announcement: ----https----://www.change.org/p/councillor-jennifer-mein-save-lancashire-s-mill-museums/u/15881342?tk=zsPP_0EKngotzxzN95lLiRI2vdpAu2Rgi8n87Y6R02I ------ ClemRutter (talk) 10:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

## Help please re Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle

Hello Clem. As you have commented on the article previously, what say you about a youngster taking out a literary reference to 1066 and All That from one of the headers? I have explained it to him but he has nevertheless taken it down again. Is it that school articles bring out the persistent pupil in some wikipedians? Best wishes, --Po Kadzieli (talk) 16:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

## April 2016

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## Do you want one Edit tab, or two? It's your choice

How to switch between editing environments
Click the [[ ]] to switch to the wikitext editor.
Click the pencil icon to switch to the visual editor.
The editing interface will be changed soon. When that happens, editors who currently see two editing tabs – "Edit" and "Edit source" – will start seeing one edit tab instead. The single edit tab has been popular at other Wikipedias. When this is deployed here, you may be offered the opportunity to choose your preferred appearance and behavior the next time you click the Edit button. You will also be able to change your settings in the Editing section of Special:Preferences.

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Whatamidoing (WMF) 19:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

## UK EU referendum edit-a-thon

Hi,

I wonder if there is somewhere a blog post or some other kind of summary about the edit-a-thon on the UK EU referendum. How was it? What are the outcomes?

Have a nice day, – T.seppelt (talk) 06:42, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

The main page was Wikipedia:Meetup/UK EU edit-a-thon and this is being used by about a third of the editors for feed back. Full fact have a link to a third party page on that site. There were two talks- one by Andrew Gray- short, and professionally done, on what is wikipedia and then one by Joe ?????. /how-to-make-bad-charts-7-simple-rules. I had prepared the booklet Newspeak House- Strengthening an article which most people ignore until they needed to mod a graph. or table and then it was 'Clem- could you just help out over here' so I spent most of the day life a demented butterfly. All the users were very focussed. Graphs were mainly of interest to Joe... there maybe more but I suggest Wikipedia talk:Meetup/UK EU edit-a-thon. ClemRutter (talk) 07:59, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

## Wikimedia UK Education 2016

Wikimedia UK Education 2016 Leutha (talk) 18:17, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

## Reference errors on 24 May

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## Naturism in London

Good to meet again at the London Meetup. Here's one of the pictures you wanted -- the World Naked Bike Ride in Holborn yesterday. I have a bunch more but they are all much the same. Andrew D. (talk) 21:39, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks- It has now gone live. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:57, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

## Wikimeet 107

Lovely to meet you yesterday at the London meetup - thanks for such a warm welcome! Zeromonk (talk) 08:20, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

## Editing News #2—2016

Editing News #2—2016 Read this in another languageSubscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Did you know?

It's quick and easy to insert a references list.

Place the cursor where you want to display the references list (usually at the bottom of the page). Open the "Insert" menu and click the "References list" icon (three books).

If you are using several groups of references, which is relatively rare, you will have the opportunity to specify the group. If you do that, then only the references that belong to the specified group will be displayed in this list of references.

Finally, click "Insert" in the dialog to insert the References list. This list will change as you add more footnotes to the page.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has fixed many bugs. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for Arabic and Indic scripts, and adapting the visual editor to the needs of the Wikivoyages and Wikisources.

### Recent changes

The visual editor is now available to all users at most Wikivoyages. It was also enabled for all contributors at the French Wikinews.

The single edit tab feature combines the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab. It has been deployed to several Wikipedias, including Hungarian, Polish, English and Japanese Wikipedias, as well as to all Wikivoyages. At these wikis, you can change your settings for this feature in the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences. The team is now reviewing the feedback and considering ways to improve the design before rolling it out to more people.

### Future changes

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The team is working with the volunteer developers who power Wikisource to provide the visual editor there, for opt-in testing right now and eventually for all users. (T138966)

The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. It will look like the visual editor, and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices around September 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.

### Let's work together

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk), 21:09, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

## Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment Cenotaph

Hey Clem, just wanted to say thanks again for those photos. I've just written the article and used one of them! I owe you a pint! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:32, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

## Kentish - article Cuxton

Hello ClemRutter - I see you reverted the edit I made in the article Cuxton. Please realize that Kentish is an ambiguous word, and it appears to me that none of the alternative articles listed there are helpful to people reading "Tudor Kentish Yeoman's house." Your explanation is that Kentish in this context is an architectural term - I checked Glossary of architecture and it's not listed there, so that doesn't help. I would recommend that Kentish is a better link to use - it's redlink, but it's better than the current status. PKT(alk) 11:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, we haven't written the article! I am about 1500 km away from my books particularly my Brunskill--isbn:9780575071223-- and yesterday the O2 connection was slow. The one I want is about vernacular timbered buildings. The form is of two wings with a sprung floor between. Wealden hall house may help though was a little large. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:45, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

## Proposed deletion of Dialling (telephony)

The article Dialling (telephony) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unsourced dictionary definition.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing `{{proposed deletion/dated}}` will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 04:48, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

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Cévennes
Dialling (telephony)

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## File:Mill-image-pending.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Mill-image-pending.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 12:33, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
. I have watched some of the debate- the file was left on en: as I couldn't show full PD for the constituent image of the demolished mill. If there remain problems I could SVG and GIMP up an alternative CC-O mill- but if that is unneeded then I will let the status quo stand. --ClemRutter (talk) 09:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

## User template

Hi ClemRutter. May the user template in Special:WhatLinksHere/User:ClemRutter/scratchpad get replaced by a real template? --Leyo 22:05, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

@Leyo: Yes- how about Template:Infobox Housing project. It fell off my radar- I had got it so far, as a proof of concept, and was looking for some support, before I researched whether I was about to break anything. Have you any suggestions for improvements. --ClemRutter (talk) 09:13, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I do not really have any suggestions. I was just wondering that a user template is used in several articles. IMO this is bad practice, e.g. as a potential target of vandalism (more difficult to spot). --Leyo 12:10, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
It might be best to be bold and perform the move. --Leyo 07:47, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

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## Books & Bytes - Issue 18

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 18, June–July 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi, Samwalton9, UY Scuti, and Sadads

• New donations - Edinburgh University Press, American Psychological Association, Nomos (a German-language database), and more!
• Spotlight: GLAM and Wikidata
• TWL attends and presents at International Federation of Library Associations conference, meets with Association of Research Libraries
• OCLC wins grant to train librarians on Wikimedia contribution

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:25, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

## File:Dawn Mill, Shaw 0012.png listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Dawn Mill, Shaw 0012.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Kelly hi! 08:20, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

## Blackbird Leys

This edit [4]. Completely original research, speculation ("This lane was lined, either side, with horse-chestnut trees and was known to all local children as "Conker Alley""; "it looks like"; "the ford would be"; "Back in the early 1950's".) this is unreferenced (and trivial to boot) speculation based on one editor's interpretation of a map/personal memories. The previous - referenced - version was better. Keri (talk) 14:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Keri: I have re-written this for you. A quick google found the Radio Oxford article, and there was a ISBN already in the text. I rescued it as the conker quote was too well written to be vandalism, but the referencing was not the way we do it. It was clear on Open Street map that this had nothing to do with Sandford.
I put the trivia into an extended footnote so the information was not lost but it was away from the main text- it does less harm there. Then reading and re-reading the Radio Oxford piece found the chestnut reference- so all that it needs is a source to the childhood memory. We can afford to let that pass.
I do hope you can expand the article as there is a lot more in the Radio Oxford piece. --ClemRutter (talk) 16:42, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

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## Editing News #3—2016

Did you know?

Did you know that you can easily re-arrange columns and rows in the visual editor?

Select a cell in the column or row that you want to move. Click the arrow at the start of that row or column to open the dropdown menu (shown). Choose either "Move before" or "Move after" to move the column, or "Move above" or "Move below" to move the row.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has mainly worked on a new wikitext editor. They have also released some small features and the new map editing tool. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. You can find links to the list of work finished each week at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. Their current priorities are fixing bugs, releasing the 2017 wikitext editor as a beta feature, and improving language support.

### Recent changes

• You can now set text as small or big.[5]
• Invisible templates have been shown as a puzzle icon. Now, the name of the invisible template is displayed next to the puzzle icon.[6] A similar feature will display the first part of hidden HTML comments.[7]
• Categories are displayed at the bottom of each page. If you click on the categories, the dialog for editing categories will open.[8]
• At many wikis, you can now add maps to pages. Go to the Insert menu and choose the "Maps" item. The Discovery department are adding more features to this area, like geoshapes. You can read more on MediaWiki.org.[9]
• The "Save" button now says "Save page" when you create a page, and "Save changes" when you change an existing page.[10] In the future, the "Save page" button will say "Publish page". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More information is available on Meta.
• Image galleries now use a visual mode for editing. You can see thumbnails of the images, add new files, remove unwanted images, rearrange the images by dragging and dropping, and add captions for each image. Use the "Options" tab to set the gallery's display mode, image sizes, and add a title for the gallery.[11]

### Future changes

The visual editor will be offered to all editors at the remaining 10 "Phase 6" Wikipedias during the next month. The developers want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on mediawiki.org. This will affect several languages, including Thai, Burmese and Aramaic.

The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. The 2017 wikitext editor will look like the visual editor and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices in October 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.

### Let's work together

Do you teach new editors how to use the visual editor? Did you help set up the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki? Have you written or imported TemplateData for your most important citation templates? Would you be willing to help new editors and small communities with the visual editor? Please sign up for the new VisualEditor Community Taskforce.

If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:18, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

## Books and Bytes - Issue 19

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 19, September–October 2016

• New and expanded donations - Foreign Affairs, Open Edition, and many more
• New Library Card Platform and Conference news
• Spotlight: Fixing one million broken links

19:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Clem

Good to meet you at the DAO editathon on Monday.

I'm now working my way through your 'Writing Your First Article' booklet, like a good student.

My article on Tony Heaton is progressing well.

Allan Sutherland

--Allan Sutherland (talk) 13:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

## Fastrack (fashion accessories)

Hi ClemRutter, When you moved the Fastrack article instead of it being "Fastrack (fashion accessories)" you had moved it to "Fastrack ( fashion accessories)" which is obviously incorrect - The article still exists I've just removed the extra space :), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 18:10, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

:-) ClemRutter (talk) 18:17, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

## 15th November (tomorrow!)

Hi Clem - so sorry I didn't make it to the meetup yesterday to see you - I had a bit of a gardening-related injury! If you can still come along tomorrow I'd be very grateful to have you there to help out. The editing part of the day will begin at about 2.30pm, so if you'd prefer to skip the talks and just come to that you could do, though you're very welcome to come for the whole day - whatever is best for you. Let me know if you can make it (and if you have any dietary requirements for lunch!). Zeromonk (talk) 09:56, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Clem - Thank you for the information. You may see us there tomorrow. Sent Zeromonk an email back today. Thisandthem (talk) 14:51, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Thanks again for coming along today - it was brilliant having you here to get involved and help out! Zeromonk (talk) 17:18, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

## Hi

Hello Clem. --Russtmoul87 (talk) 14:59, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

## Ooops

Sorry about this - I was absolutely sure it was in article space when I edited it. Clearly I'm confused - I'd not usually edit something like that in userspace. Apologies and best wishes DBaK (talk) 07:37, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Confused- welcome to my world. --ClemRutter (talk) 09:25, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
There's a lot of it about!! :) Thanks for the nice reply. DBaK (talk) 12:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

## ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

 Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. Mdann52 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

## ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

 Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

## Thank you for Hand holding and a request for help.

@ ClemRutter, Hello!

Thank you for Hand holding. Errors aplenty in my edits, I acknowledge.
I am intrigued and fascinated with the World on this side of wiki. My respects continue to grow each day for the noble platform. I am also amazed at stalwarts who continue to contribute through & over a decade. My salutation to you too sir.
I continue to learn each day. I admit I am yet to go through the training manual you suggested. I am sure, I shall benefit from it once I start learning from it.
Besides the article on Household Stone tools in Karnataka, I request your help on another article Chigali. I requested for photos to upload on the article Chigali from one of the websites. They replied today that I can use the pics. Could you kindly help in this regard,

1. I have email permission to use pics. Is it Ok to use?
2. If I can use it on the page, could you please guide me to the steps to do so?
3. Should any other permissions or procedure is required?

I am aware that I am taking your valuable time on such a trivial matter. My apologies.

Sincerely

--Kireadsalot (talk) 16:39, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@ ClemRutter, Hello

I wanted to share an update with you regarding the request for help in uploading of photos. I had requested for help from @Bgwhite: earlier. I got a reply for that. I am going about those steps now.

Thanks.

--Kireadsalot (talk) 08:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

## Housing estate in Roehampton

Hi Clem

We were discussing the Roehampton council estate at the meet up on Saturday, and just to let you know this is the one I had in mind: Alton Estate. I happened upon it during a cycle ride in the area a few weeks ago, having not realised it was there before. It looks like you haven't worked on that particular one yet! Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:40, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@Amakuru: The Roehampton estate was renamed the Dover House Estate and had no article. At the time with 1212 houses it was a big estate. I was going to call it the article Roehampton estate but that title had been taken by Leutha for Roehampton estate- a slave colony Tooting, Roehampton, Putney is untrodden soil for me- and I found Alton Estate on the Roehampton article so I will look at it soon. The Roehampton article is beautifully written but if you Google certain of the more memorable phrases- a lot of it seems to be a c&p copyvio. Work needed there. The other thing that I notice is the absence of photos on commons so if you have a camera handy it will save me a journey. I am pressing on with Dover House today but I will add a few tweaks to Alton soon. --ClemRutter (talk) 15:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, of course. That will give me an excuse to get back on the bike and go check that out in the next couple of weeks. Thanks, and good luck with the Dover House work!  — Amakuru (talk) 15:32, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

## Just FYI

This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the English Wikipedia Manual of Style and article titles policy, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

In particular, referring to other editors' views as "stupidity" in title and style discussions, like Talk:Woodhead_Line#Requested move 17 December 2016, is the sort of unnecessary, personalized hostility that ArbCom case was getting at and which has resulted in sanctions being applied. Wikipedia not a social media debate forum, it's a collaborative work project. Please be civil in disagreements and try to resolve to consensus, not win fights.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  17:57, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Following up on this, you referred to "the total stupidity of the suggestion to change from the lines official name". I'm not that offended, as I'm used to wikipedians over-reacting to ideas they don't like, but I'm still at loss to understand what you're relying on for the line's "official name". Early sources, when the line was in operation in the 19th century, never called it the Woodhead line; later (in the 20th century) it was known as the "Woodhead line". Did it at some point get an official name? Did anyone capitalize it while it was running? Where is the stupidity in trying to follow WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS? Dicklyon (talk) 04:50, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't be offended- never the intention. What you are trying to do in hitting out out over-capitalisation (case) is generally a good thing. Bravo for that. I first hit his article way back, but I don't believe I have edited it. One of the first thing you do with a new articles is to check the case, and the definite books for rail lines are the Ian Allan Series. These were the basis for many of our articles. Working with the degree of trust we had for each other judgement we could recognise from the history whether the article was factually solid. Ian Allan are print books and are not digitised yet- but the railway buffs amongst us have them. in googling Ian Allen, I did find this publication
Bairstow, Martin. The Sheffield Ashton Under Lyne & Manchester Railway. The Woodhead Line. A detailed history and photographic study of the line containing a significant number of electric locomotive photographs. (pb) Published by author, 1986, pp72, isbn 0 9510302 4 8. VG (small inscription) £7
I was not intending to go into a full linguistic analysis of word usage along the line of the Woodhead route (which is how it has been referred to in Parliament since 2013) to distinguish between the old Woodhead Line and a potential reopened line on that route, the usage as Woodhead line as a shortform for the Woodhead rail line-- and the misusage by subeds on reliable papers known for their typos.

Trusting the expert editors of the past, rerunning those arguments is stupid. What we must do is look to our policy guidelines and see if we are allowed to use that name. We do. As I have now said elsewhere:

MOS:GEOUNITS (Institutions) gives categories of permitted use for Institutions and Geographical entities. The Woodhead Line is a clear geographical identity- it has a starting point, and finishing point, it is 41.5 miles long and has a defined width. The Panama Canal is 48 miles long .

You may not be aware of the political sensitivity of this line- (Google HS2 HS3 Northern Powerhouse) so the article will be watched-- this is a hell of a can of worms. ClemRutter (talk) 10:37, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

## Seasons Greetings

Merry Christmas from me! Thanks for your company during 2016. Un-Festive?? We need to celebrate We have seen the percentage of articles on women rise from 15.5% to 16.77%. 20% is within our grasp and that's an increase of nearly a third% over what we first found. J24 is near the Coopers Arms (my local) Victuallers (talk) 15:50, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

It is on my to do list for next time I visit Sherwood- and the grandchildren. ClemRutter (talk) 16:26, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
To December 2017

## DYK for Oroville Dam crisis

 On 28 February 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Oroville Dam crisis, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that nine million fish were rescued from the Feather River Fish Hatchery during the 2017 Oroville Dam crisis (pictured)? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Oroville Dam crisis), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Mifter (talk) 12:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

## New draft page - feedback wanted

Hi Clem, I made a new draft on Theatremaker and Comedian Jess Thom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jess_Thom

I've used your 'Disability Arts' template, and I've added 'Wikiproject Disability' template to the talk page...I think I'm starting to get the hang of this Wikipedia thing! Finally!

I would love your feedback on the article, and hope you're well. JTdisabilityartsonline (talk) 11:54, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

"I think I'm starting to get the hang of this Wikipedia thing! " I think you are! That's an excelllent piece of work .
As to constructive comments- well that is a hard task. I have read it twice now and nothing has jumped out of the page. So I went to Talk:Billy Connolly to compare. This is a B rated article- so I also hoped to find a reference to the Assessment criteria. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Quality_scale I expanded out the criteria for a B. I think that is where you are aiming.
In the Lead bold the subject- what is a theatre-maker, that needs a wikilink. The infobox is there but I think we do need a photo- as she is alive and prominent I think just using a copyrighted newspaper pick and calling it fair use wont work. Read more at Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy. There is room for more wikilinking- particularly terms that non-theatre people might not know. Obviously don't go for over linking but there is only I link in the Disability Activism section. There is nothing explicit in the lead describing her role in DActivism and it should be there, both to create the synopsis and to hammer home her notability.
I look forward to seeing what the Draft assessor comes up with. Then when it is launched we can see again what we both have missed. Exciting.ClemRutter (talk) 14:32, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 A beer on me! For getting Leekfrith torcs onto the mainspace so quickly. Good to see it here in a good state already. Cheers!Zakhx150 (talk) 08:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

## Oroville Dam crisis

Why is adding a wikilink to 2017 California floods at all controversial? I don't see any existing discussion of this on the talk page. Antony–22 (talkcontribs) 05:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

I think this is a continuation of the discussions of 16th February, and tying to make the lead compliant with MOS. We should have the the title as the first wl'd bolded item in the first sentence. We haven't. My POV is your fact is vital, It should be in the first sentence. It should/must be there as the second mentioned fact- but not first as it take undue prominence. I can't see a way to do that- hence I hoped that others would come up with a magic solution through discussion.--ClemRutter (talk) 10:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Actually, MOS says that the title does not have to be present or bolded in the first sentence when a descriptive title is used: WP:BOLDAVOID. The point that the wikilink should be later in the lead is a valid one, so I'll look for another place to put it. Antony–22 (talkcontribs) 19:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
All these articles are important for the Global warming debate so we need to have them 'President proof'. Looking at 2017 California floods, the first sentence reads:

The high-amplitude ridge off the West Coast that characterized the 2011–17 California drought was replaced by a persistent presence of anomalous troughs impacting California. Another feature in the 2013–2015 winters was the extreme temperature contrast between a warm western U.S. and a cold eastern continent. These anomalous temperature and circulation patterns were referred to as the North American winter “dipole”.

That is going to fun to edit! I'll keep watching and may be will dive in after Wednesday's edit-athon. ClemRutter (talk) 00:00, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Well, I can't take too much credit for the 2017 California floods article; mainly I was surprised that it hadn't been started yet, so I split some text from other articles and added a few sentences of my own here and there. Mainly I wanted to provide a framework that others could build onto. Yes, the "Causes" section of that article isn't very good, and if you can improve it that would be great! Antony–22 (talkcontribs) 00:54, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

## Category:List of mills in Kirklees has been nominated for discussion

Category:List of mills in Kirklees, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 14:49, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

## Category:Lists of mills in West Yorkshire has been nominated for discussion

Category:Lists of mills in West Yorkshire, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 20:03, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Secondary education, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Moravian. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## Five years since we met?

Editing guide from Women in Red event

Thanks Clem - I suspect we should have made more of your user guide at Newnham, but I wasn't expecting such a quality gift. A quick guide to the visual editor is missing. I am using your guide at Loughborough Uni on Friday and De Montfort Uni on Tuesday. Great gift - its on the Role Models page. Thanks Victuallers (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

The most upto date version is on Women in Red Dropboxand I have done a |pdf. The only changes are cosmetic.
I haven't tried to do full coverage of Visual Editor as I don't use it and it is just not stable enough yet- their little tweaks in the screen formatting involves doing new screen dumps and even resetting the page- the kids screens have to look like the booklet six months after the event! I want to have a look at mobile phone editing too.
If you can provide some critical feedback on what works and what doesn't- it will be useful- you can email me a few photos of the the sheets covered in red pencil marks in the traditional way.
As I have said before these were never intended for distance learning or instruction- just a booklet to which a live tutor could refer when teaching a group of time-short professionals. It comes in multiples of 4 pages so it can be printed in A5 booklet form. It seems to have filled another niche too. So at the moment enjoy. ClemRutter (talk) 12:24, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Reformatory, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hulks. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## Copyright problem on Secondary school

Material you included in the above article appears to have been copied from the copyright web page http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2ywfoIKO_RYJ:eprints.uwe.ac.uk/ or elsewhere online. Copying text directly from a source is a copyright violation. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, the content had to be removed. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions or if you think I made a mistake. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 22:12, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Lets keep the conversation on one page. Great to chat. You know what I am attempting to do by looking on the talk page- sort out an article with multiple problems- I am grateful that you are helping. I have diffed the section below so we can work on- it is correctly sourced - and many of the words are the same. The subject is different, Richards is writing a list of goals for his students- that is the artistic effort. Here we are being encyclopedic and stating these as fact. He is using similar words in subsidary clauses, our work cannot be claimed to be derivative. Written as it was, it is a useful check list. So lets look at the bullet points and compare, and you can perhaps suggest improvements.
==Secondary School as an institution==
− restore
The secondary school is a fundamental unit in a functioning society
− New text- not covered in any way by reference- restore''
• sociological methods can aid our understanding of educational processes and systems
− compare with By the end of this chapter you should be able to 1. Explain how sociology can aid our understanding of educational processes and systems
• the key concepts and theoretical approaches in the sociology of education have changed over time
− compare with 2. Demonstrate an understanding of the key concepts and theoretical approaches in the sociology of education and how they have changed over time
• the social context, social diversity and inequality impact on educational processes and outcomes delivered by the secondary school
−compare with 3. Developed an awareness of social context, of social diversity and inequality and their impact on educational processes and outcomes
• different social groups achieve differential outcomes from engaging with education at the secondary level
− copare with 4. Explain in sociological terms why different social groups achieve differential outcomes from engaging with education
• research strategies and methods in gaining knowledge will impact on how the secondary school is seen
-compare with 5. Outline an understanding of the nature and appropriate use of research strategies and methods in gaining knowledge in the sociology of education
<ref>{{cite book|last1=Waller|first1=Richard|title=SOCIOLOGY OF EDUCATION|publisher=University of the West of England|location=Chapter 5|url=http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/13671/1/Final_edited_Soc_of_E_22F8362.docx|accessdate=4 April 2017}}</ref>
- restore''

Each one is slightly or significantly different. So what Have I missed this time. ClemRutter (talk) 23:42, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

The addition was picked up by a bot and manually assessed by me. here is an assessment of the opverlap using Earwig's tool. The parts that are identical are highlighted (show up pink on my display). The differences between the source material and the material you added are inadequate to avoid copyvio, because it presents the same material in the same order using almost identical wording. That's why I removed the material. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 12:47, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
@Diannaa: Interesting. I'll get back to you in a couple of days. ClemRutter (talk) 09:12, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

## Books and Bytes - Issue 21

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

• #1lib1ref 2017
• Wikipedia Library User Group
• Wikipedia + Libraries at Wikimedia Conference 2017
• Spotlight: Library Card Platform

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

## Twenty-four thousand edits

This is my 24 000th edit.--ClemRutter (talk) 23:51, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Congrats on a major milestone. Dicklyon (talk) 03:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

## Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Clogging into Clog dancing. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., `copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution`. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 16:01, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

## Digital Marketing & Social Media

Hi, I am on the Digital Marketing and Social Media masters module at Loughborough University and wanted to stop by to let you know that I have now started my Wikipedia journey!--RyanHarris19 (talk) 13:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Clem - This user is using your guide!! He has got confused because it was Roger Bamkin who gave it to him. Your guide is very useful and it is being used. Ryan - well done. my talk page is here Victuallers (talk) 10:10, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Greetings, - Its good to know that I am now writing prescribed texts for Loughborough University! ;-) If there is any way I can clarify the mysteries of Wikipedia- come back to me on my Talk page or with an email- it is useful for me to have feedback on any of my booklets and text and suggestions for improvements. I haven't followed up on what the Digital Marketing and Social Media masters actually covers- so suggestions on how I/we can focus the material would be helpful.--ClemRutter (talk) 11:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
I was toying with the idea of formatting the pages for Wikibooks or Wikiversity. Is this worthwhile? If so which? Whats missing? Is there a better way?--ClemRutter (talk) 11:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Learning points so far - Admins who see two new users looking at the same article on the same day assume its a sock.
Do register your account days and ideally weeks before you need it. On the other hand - dont assume that you can just type stuff press save save and that will be it. If you have an assignment then complete it a week before the deadline (leave some contingency).
Personally I've been surprised to find that users sand boxes can easily get reverted. They need watching over. Are you interested in helping to look over this group? They are all rushing for the deadline and they are getting some pushback from other editors. Victuallers (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
If you want something done ask a busy man. Sure. I'll give a hand. Do you Want to send me a few links and a list of your ducklings. ClemRutter (talk) 12:41, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Well I guess you know how good you are. Ive created a list of the user names here. They know about refs and not cutting and pasting and the sandbox. They were using the visual editor. They are trying to write stuff about digital marketing.... Victuallers (talk) 18:21, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Clem,

My name is Jordan Chappell and I'm a on the Msc Marketing course at Loughborough University. --Jordapedia (talk) 17:43, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

## Editing News #1—2017

Did you know?

Did you know that you can review your changes visually?

When you are finished editing the page, type your edit summary and then choose "Review your changes".

In visual mode, you will see additions, removals, new links, and formatting highlighted. Other changes, such as changing the size of an image, are described in notes on the side.

Click the toggle button to switch between visual and wikitext diffs.

The wikitext diff is the same diff tool that is used in the wikitext editors and in the page history.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has spent most of their time supporting the 2017 wikitext editor mode which is available inside the visual editor as a Beta Feature, and adding the new visual diff tool. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. You can find links to the work finished each week at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. Their current priorities are fixing bugs, supporting the 2017 wikitext editor as a beta feature, and improving the visual diff tool.

### Recent changes

A new wikitext editing mode is available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices. The 2017 wikitext editor has the same toolbar as the visual editor and can use the citoid service and other modern tools. Go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures to enable the New wikitext mode.

A new visual diff tool is available in VisualEditor's visual mode. You can toggle between wikitext and visual diffs. More features will be added to this later. In the future, this tool may be integrated into other MediaWiki components. [12]

The team have added multi-column support for lists of footnotes. The `<references />` block can automatically display long lists of references in columns on wide screens. This makes footnotes easier to read. You can request multi-column support for your wiki. [13]

Other changes:

• You can now use your web browser's function to switch typing direction in the new wikitext mode. This is particularly helpful for RTL language users like Urdu or Hebrew who have to write JavaScript or CSS. You can use Command+Shift+X or Control+Shift+X to trigger this. [14]
• The way to switch between the visual editing mode and the wikitext editing mode is now consistent. There is a drop-down menu that shows the two options. This is now the same in desktop and mobile web editing, and inside things that embed editing, such as Flow. [15]
• The Categories item has been moved to the top of the Page options menu (from clicking on the icon) for quicker access. [16] There is also now a "Templates used on this page" feature there. [17]
• You can now create `<chem>` tags (sometimes used as `<ce>`) for chemical formulas inside the visual editor. [18]
• Tables can be set as collapsed or un-collapsed. [19]
• The Special character menu now includes characters for Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics and angle quotation marks (‹› and ⟨⟩) . The team thanks the volunteer developer, Tpt. [20]
• A bug caused some section edit conflicts to blank the rest of the page. This has been fixed. The team are sorry for the disruption. [21]
• There is a new keyboard shortcut for citations: `Control`+`Shift`+`K` on a PC, or `Command`+`Shift`+`K` on a Mac. It is based on the keyboard shortcut for making links, which is `Control`+`K` on a PC or `Command`+`K` on a Mac. [22]

### Future changes

• The VisualEditor team is working with the Community Tech team on a syntax highlighting tool. It will highlight matching pairs of `<ref>` tags and other types of wikitext syntax. You will be able to turn it on and off. It will first become available in VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode, maybe late in 2017. [23]
• The kind of button used to Show preview, Show changes, and finish an edit will change in all WMF-supported wikitext editors. The new buttons will use OOjs UI. The buttons will be larger, brighter, and easier to read. The labels will remain the same. You can test the new button by editing a page and adding `&ooui=1` to the end of the URL, like this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox?action=edit&ooui=1 The old appearance will no longer be possible, even with local CSS changes. [24]
• The outdated 2006 wikitext editor will be removed later this year. It is used by approximately 0.03% of active editors. See a list of editing tools on mediawiki.org if you are uncertain which one you use. [25]

If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! User:Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:18, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

## Digital Marketing Course February

Hi, my name is Silvia and I am on your Digital Marketing and Social Media course at Loughborough university.--Silviagua (talk) 01:48, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Welcome on board, if you need me to do read over a draft- or have questions I will be here on-line this evening and tomorrow. ClemRutter (talk) 07:18, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

## Nottingham HS

I think some information does not need an attached citation. For an establishment like this, it is largely going to be internal knowledge. Students of the school know it is true, but there may not be a source to confirm it. Some citations - if you read them - are totally irrelevant and do not assist in providing information. They seem to be there just to 'tick the box'. -Sb2001 (talk) 19:02, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

@Sb2001: In a state school, I would be able to knock off those references from the annual governors report to parents, or in the prospectus issued at secondary school transfer- or the adverts taken out by the school in the local press at transfer time. I am sure, that someone must have written a recent history. The problem comes when the article starts to look for GA status and this 'petty' points will be raised then. It is better to do it now. And until you have a reference you are not safe from roaming- deletionistas. Yes, there are articles that are over-referenced, one can spend an amusing 20 minutes cleaning them up- but here my rule is 'one interesting fact', 'explain where it can be verified (drop in a ref), and then a line in the edit summary to say what you have done. It is important to demonstrate this in schools articles to set a good example to the next generation of editors. ClemRutter (talk) 19:52, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
We're also not in a position to include "internal knowledge" material of any kind if it cannot be verified with a published source. Doesn't matter how true it may be.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  07:41, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

## Swedish post-war prefabricated houses

Have a look at Swedish post-war prefabricated houses. A friend of mine lives in one and I am trying to persuade him to take some photos inside!Leutha (talk) 06:34, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I have been a little occupied doing some forensics producing Lancaster West Estate- and one of the buildings that was part of the scheme. Do join in. John has started Wikipedia:WikiProject Social Housing in the United Kingdom which will require a little muscle to get started. See you Sunday. --ClemRutter (talk) 08:35, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

## A sub-page? Discuss

This had been created in response to the part you commented on at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Grenfell_Tower_fire#A_sub-page.3F_Discuss.

### Grenfell Tower casualties

Casualties
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

As of 28 June 2017, the official presumed number of deaths was 80. As of 5 July 2017, 21 victims have been formally identified and their families informed. A handful more are missing and assumed dead,[1]

Please discuss at the Talk page and gain consensus before adding these names.
1. Abdeslam Sebbar (aged 77, 11th floor)
2. Abufars Ibrahim (39, 23rd floor)
3. Ali Yawar Jafari (81, 11th floor)
4. Anthony Disson (British, 65, 22nd floor)
5. Farah Hamdan (Moroccan, 31, in a stairwell between the 20th and 19th)
6. Gloria Trevisan (Italy, 26, 23rd floor)
7. Marco Gottardi (Italy, 26, 23rd floor)
8. Husna Begum (22, floor ?)
9. Mohammad Alhajali, 23, floor ?
10. Jessica Urbanno, 2?, floor ?
11. Isaac Paulos (5, 18th floor)
12. Khadija Khalloufi (52, 17th floor)
13. Leena Belkadi (Moroccan, 6 months, 20th floor)
14. Malak Belkadi (Moroccan, 8, initially rescued, later died, 20th floor)
15. Omar Belkadi (Moroccan, 32, 20th floor)
16. Mo Tuccu (44)
17. Mohammad Al Haj Ali (23, 14th floor)
18. Rabeya Begum (64)
19. Saber Neda, also known as Mohamed Amied Neda (57, 23rd floor)
20. Ya-Haddy Sisi Saye also known as Khadija Saye (Gambia, 24, 20th floor)
21. Sheila Smith (84, 17th floor)
22. Vincent Chiejina (60, 16th floor)
Some names have not yet been released to the public, at the families' request.

The police said they were using "every imaginable source" of information "from government agencies to fast food companies" to identify casualties, but did not expect a final figure until 2018 when the search and recovery operation is over. On 28 June, the authorities stated that there were known survivors from 106 of the tower's 129 flats; eighteen people among the occupants of these flats were reported as dead or missing presumed dead, whereas most of those killed were said to have been in the remaining 23 flats between the 11th and 23rd floors.[2] Some people from lower floors may have tried to move up the building, and it is thought a number of people may have ended up in one flat.[3] Some victims were identified from twenty-six 999 calls made from inside the 23 flats.[citation needed]

The missing include many children including Amaya Ahmedin (aged 3, 19th floor), Biruk Habtom (aged 12), Fathia Ibrahim, Fatima Choucair, Firdaws Hashim, Hania Ibrahim, Jeremiah Dean (2, 14th floor), Jessica Urbano Ramiez (12, 20th floor), Mehdi El-Wahabi (8), Mierna Choucair, Yaqub Hashim, Yayha Hashim and Zeinab Choucair.[4] The youngest of those known killed, Leena Belkadi, was just 6 months old. One victim died in hospital on 15 June due to inhalation of fire fumes.[5][6][7] Additionally, one survivor suffered a stillbirth as a result of the fire.[8]

A total of 151 homes were destroyed in the tower and surrounding area. The incident ranks as the deadliest structural fire in the United Kingdom since the start of the 20th century, when detailed records began.[9] The death toll is higher than the Bradford City stadium fire of 1985, which killed 56 people.[10]

1. ^ Samuel Osborne (5 July). "Grenfell Tower: Government sends in 'taskforce'". BBC News. Retrieved 5 July 2017. Check date values in: `|date=` (help)CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
2. ^ Samuel Osborne (28 June 2017). "Grenfell Tower fire: Total death toll from devastating blaze may not be known until the end of the year, say police". The Independent. Retrieved 1 July 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
3. ^ "No final Grenfell Tower death toll this year, police say". BBC News. 28 June 2017. Retrieved 1 July 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
4. ^ "Grenfell Tower: candlelit vigil for victims after grief turned to anger at earlier protests". The Daily Telegraph. 17 June 2017. Retrieved 27 June 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
5. ^ May Bulman (16 June 2017). "Grenfell Tower fire: Met Police confirm 30 dead and 12 remain critical". The Independent. Retrieved 1 July 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
6. ^ Tom Kelly and Inderdeep Bains (16 June 2017). "Agony of girl, five, feared to have lost her entire family". PressReader.com. Daily Mail. Retrieved 1 July 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
7. ^ "Grenfell Tower fire: Six-month-old baby 'found dead in mother's arms'". ITV News. 28 June 2017. Retrieved 1 July 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)
8. ^ Couple who escaped Grenfell Tower blaze lost unborn son (news.com.au)
9. ^ Associated Press (via New York Times), The Latest: London Fire Deadliest in UK Since 20th Century, 19 June 2017
10. ^ Griffiths, Frank; Kirka, Danica. "79 now believed to have died in London high-rise fire". Chicago Tribune. Associated Press. Archived from the original on 19 June 2017. Retrieved 19 June 2017. Unknown parameter `|deadurl=` ignored (`|url-status=` suggested) (help)CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link)

79.77.193.0 (talk) 19:05, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

79.77.221.247 (talk) 14:09, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

## "Homes fit for heroes"

Thanks for your edit to Public housing in the United Kingdom. I found the article while researching what was meant by "council housing." It was jarring to see the catchy phrase "homes fit for heroes," clearly someone's snappy wordsmithing, without quotarion marks or in-text attribution. I changed it to common terminology, then you restored it with quotes, which is an improvement over the article as I found it, since it implies the phrase is not just some Wikipedia editor's creation. How about if the section explained that it was the theme of a movement and was coined by Lloyd George, since your edit summary is not going to be easily accessible to future readers? I doubt that anyone outside the UK is familiar with the term's history. Your edit comment that it is being explained in the cited book is not adequate, since few will drive miles to consult the book(not viewable online) in some university library. As an aside, I got interested in British housing after watching a TV show "Can't pay? We'll take it away" in which 2 repo men who are "sheriffs" show up with a writ from the "High Court" to politely evict tenants who haven't paid their rent in months, and have ignored eviction notices. Regards. Edison (talk) 23:39, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

@Edison:.It is such a common phrase, that we overlook the fact that there may be folk who don't know it.Yes something can be done- it is about fitting it all in. I have added a further online link- and wikilinked to Homes fit for heroes which redirects to Council house#Homes fit for heroes (1918–1923). This still needs a efn- to explain the Lloyd George 24 Nov 1918 speech."Lloyd George's Ministry Men | World War I Centenary". ww1centenary.oucs.ox.ac.uk. Retrieved 13 July 2017. CS1 maint: discouraged parameter (link) You may have noticed that a group of us are setting up WP:SHUK, and we would be glad if you joined us. We have been distracted by the need to research and document Grenfell Tower and the Lancaster West Estate. --ClemRutter (talk) 00:20, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

## Peking Ship

Please correct Link '5' > First Aid > http://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/schleswig-holstein/Die-Peking-braucht-dringend-Erste-Hilfe,peking1296.html & http://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/schleswig-holstein/Pressekonferenz-zur-Rueckkehr-der-Peking,peking1318.html & https://www.facebook.com/Viermaster.Peking/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.20.21 (talk) 21:15, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Leave it with me a few days. Und Mischmaschsprache- kein problem. ClemRutter (talk) 08:44, 5 Augu

--

## Books and Bytes - Issue 23

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 23, June-July 2017

• Library card
• User Group update
• Global branches update
• Spotlight: Combating misinformation, fake news, and censorship
• Bytes in brief

Chinese, Arabic and Yoruba versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:03, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

## A barnstar for you!

 The Real Life Barnstar Nice to meet you ClemRutter, look forward to doing it again. — fortunavelut luna 11:31, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: August 2017

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## March for Europe, 3nd September 2016, the march to Parliament Square. Cockspur Street then Trafalgar Square

Hello Clem, trying to send a Wiki message No idea if this right, very confusing setup it is).I've download your image: March for Europe, 3nd September 2016, the march to Parliament Square. Cockspur Street then Trafalgar Square for use in a short article about Brexit in a Scandinavian education mag 'The School Times'. Thanks for making it available. Best from the EU Schooltimes (talk) 08:39, 14 September 2017 (UTC)schooltimes

Thanks- glad to be of assistance. --ClemRutter (talk) 14:07, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

## "A week of solid content work"

Hi. Regarding your comment on the AN/I 1RR discussion, here's a link to my content edits for the last 7 days [26]. If I've counted correctly, that's 148 edits, including substantial contributions to The Economic Consequences of the Peace. It's true that that's quite a low count for me for a week, but it happened to coincide with a week in which I started a new work project, and spent much more then my usual time in rehearsal.

I'm quite sure that I spend too much time on the noticeboards, but I do try to not let it get in the way of working on content. I will also acknowledge that I am far from a perfect editor, and have a full panoply of personal foibles, but I really am dedicated to improving the encyclopedia in whatever I do. People can certainly differ in good faith about the particulars, but I can assure you that my motivations and intentions are always proper.

In any case, thanks for your comment in that discussion. If I used your name previously in a way that offended you, I apologize for that.

Best, Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:34, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

## That was rude.

The reason I removed it was obvious.

PLUTO IS NOT A FREAKING PLANET. SERIOUSLY. THE COLUMN SAYS PLANET. PLUTO IS NOT ONE. THUS I REMOVED THE ROW.

Sincerely, a very irritated editor. 8.40.151.110 (talk) 03:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker);and that obviously gives you the right to be RUDE; My Excellent Man Just Showed Us Nine Planets.....Edmund Patrick confer 07:35, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

### Not ending up as Cassini–Huygens

Thank you for engaging with me on my talk page- but it wasn't really necessary, all that was required was for you provide a source (a reference) to your obvious fact, and a clear explanation in the ed an it summary. By editing using ip address, everyone who monitors these pages will assume you are a vandal, you could head this off by editing under a clearer user name. Looking at your edit history, you have caused yourself a lot of grief in the past, when your clarity of thought should have been lauded. We have an encyclopedia to write- and you are a part of it- shouting at your co-workers is never the correct solution, but enough of that onward with task and do ping me when you have a user name. I am cross posting this as I am not sure what you have tagged. ClemRutter (talk) 08:35, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

## September 2017

Your recent editing history at Nude swimming shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Binksternet (talk) 23:28, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

No- everything has been signalled on the talk page. Each of my edits has built on the original text. You and another editor have chosen to delete referenced text. I am satisfied that my current version is robust, and provides a base page for future reversions when others choose to rebuild the page if there are further deletions. Please use the talk page to discuss any issues you may have.ClemRutter (talk) 23:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
What complete nonsense. You supplied a terribly unreliable blog post and a Youtube link at first, then you reposted the blog source along with IMDb, hoping that would cement your text. Unfortunately, the text you supplied was your own fabrication, based not at all on the cited sources. If that's your "robust" version then you have very great challenges to surmount. Binksternet (talk) 23:47, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Anyway it is good to talk. The fact is that it is there- and shaky or not it is a substantial site, and if you read the reference you will see it if fairly anodyne. If you have time to look for a better reference feel free- I am not a youtube or film buff but may have seen the movie when it first came out- I am sure that a film buff will be able to lay their hands on it in seconds. Have you any better wording in mind? In doing deletions you need to be careful not to lose any data- and I do think that describing a deletion 'as editors work' is stretching a point. Looking at the references for some of the films, they do contain a lot of additional information which we shouldn't lose- I would be tempted to split them- and put some of that stuff in an efn so they appear as a separate footnote- but alternatively, they are wandering away from the articles title (off-focus), so the footnotes would be UNDUE. Any ideas? ClemRutter (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
If you're looking for advice I would say read through the policy WP:No original research a few times. The text you offer up to readers should be a summary of published sources rather than your own creation. If you cannot find published sources to support an idea for a Wikipedia contribution then don't post the contribution.
Also, it's not enough that a notional list entry in nude swimming can be confirmed to contain some amount of nude swimming. The proposed list entry must have been noticed by third party observers publishing in reliable sources. If none of these can be found then the proposed entry is not important to the topic and should not be added. Binksternet (talk) 00:33, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

## Quarry Bank Mill

Please see and contribute to the discussion on the talk page. I am minded to delete the section on the slave trade on grounds of irrelevance - if you disagree please say why Brownturkey (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: September 2017

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## William Crosley

Hi, I just noticed your comment on the two William Crosleys on Talk:Macclesfield Canal and have responded there. Regards. Bob1960evens (talk) 12:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

## Books and Bytes - Issue 24

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## "Highly"

Using the adverb "highly" is voicing an opinion, so the same really applies if you had added "ridiculously" or "barely". If you have sources that define how they are selective in a factual manner, then feel free to add. I'm not certain why this needs to be in the lead sentence though, calling them selective would appear to be adequate. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

I was just on your talk page- I think the comment stands, but we can discuss it here:

"Greetings. I agree 'highly' could be seen as POV. However I don't believe you had time to read Peter Read's article and the Telegraph article, or to google further before you, in good faith, reverted. This has been a serious issue in Kent and Bromley since 1968! Would you like to study the literature and suggest an alternative wording that will not be seen as party political. If you read the current controversy at Olave's you will see that this little word was deliberate. I hasten to add I did not write the original text."--ClemRutter (talk) 21:08, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Its all in the references, on receiving Circular 10/66 and 11/68. the 2 local authorities fought tooth and nail not to introduce comprehensive education. Kent did so by looking at the wording, and putting forward a scheme- where it would trial comprehensive schools in 4 small areas saying if the experiment was successful then they would roll them out gradually. Bromley introduced comps- but redefined two schools as super-selectives, a term no-one had heard off, these were 'locally' described as highly selective schools with their own entrance exams. The reference tell the story, and provide the source WP needs for use of one of the words.
The dilemma is that for the general reader, super-selective is just an obscure technical term, that would need a lot of explanation while 'highly' is a common (albeit POV-laden) word. Missing it out would suggest that Bromley was breaking the law (a deeply held Labour Party belief). As a former governor of a Kent Comprehensive, I daren't go too deep as that could generate a WP:COI allegation. -- ClemRutter (talk) 21:34, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
I understand the problem. "Highly" appears to be an opinion, "super selective" is obscure, and appears to be something a pupil might jokingly add. My question is; does this need to be in the lead sentence? Can the school's selection process not be covered later in the article, where it can be explained properly? Why does it need to be the very first thing said about the school? --Escape Orbit (Talk) 17:47, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
If I had an answer- I would have quietly been "bold". Pupils in Bromley, Bexley, NW Kent would not joke about this- though they might elsewhere. A thousand sets of parents compete to get their nice kids into one of the 120 places- by extreme coaching, tutoring Saturday and Sunday classes, memorising past papers- buying test questions- all so they won't end up going to a grammar (sic) school. The other side of the problem is that Olaves is not a 'selective' school. It does not appear on the list of 'selective' schools they may go to if they pass the Kent test (Eleven Plus). These would include Bexley Grammar School, Dartford Grammar School, Betts, Syd and Chis etc. Comparable Direct grant grammar schools in the north of England such as Manchester Grammar School went independent. In short, it is the most significant fact that a parent needs to read- it is the most significant fact that a journalist needs to read before they try to explain the nature of the existing scandals. Sadly it needs to be in the lead.
So, back to 'highly'. A solution may be to use a hyphen, highly-selective may work, or just leave be and attach a {{efn}} that could contain a synopsis of this discussion. ClemRutter (talk) 20:37, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
If it is, as you say, the most significant fact then it should be easy to find a source to cite. I've yet to see one that supports this description for either school. It also can't be emphasised enough that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a parents' guide to good schools. (I also doubt any parent with designs on sending their child to either school is using the lead sentence on Wikipedia articles to instruct them.) Your suggestion of a {{efn}} also looks like a suggestion that original research and synthesis may function as a cite. It may not. Please find a source to directly support what is appearing on the article. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:48, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Here, just trying to be helpful- If I had the solution I would have done it. You could try this its not a site I have probed for RS. Now Chelsfield this is RS]- and may be what you are looking for. A blog in a RS Huffingdon Post is possible too. A commercial site talks about coaching for super-selectives but adds Dartford Grammar to the list (which personally I query) along with Skinners and Judds that I can accept. [The Telegraph] attempts to define super-selectives (note hyphen) in terms of scoring on the Kent Test (417 out of 420), and the good school guide links to a description of pass marks on the Kent test.

All this providing of references seems too close to OR and WP:SYNTH for the purist. Do you find what you need there? Failing that I see that there is another solution emerging, that may work. Write a stub on super-selectives, written from the perspective of the Kent test criteria- then link to super-selective from the Olaves ans NW page- it would satisfy my objection to writing a falsehood, and your objection to 'highly'. It would be time consuming to work that up past a 'B' though. ClemRutter (talk) 23:53, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Of the links you provide, I think this one] gets closest to what is needed, and it's not brilliant. This one has the air of a personal website to it. It offers no indication of who runs it and doesn't look professional. The others, as you indicate, merely discuss what a super-selective school is and provide no verification about Olave's or Newstead Wood.
I ask again; why do you think that this confusing definition has to be in the lead sentence at all? If it requires explanation and a factual demonstration of accuracy then there is plenty of space in the article to expand on it. Your idea of a super-selective stub may work, but an easier solution is simply to remove it from the lead. It's not essential that it appears there.
Could we also continue this discussion on Talk:St_Olave's_Grammar_School, so that other may better contribute? --Escape Orbit (Talk) 13:41, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: October 2017

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## innocent times, surely not!

Just in case you're interested, time when people sponsored dials as a mark of recognition. Edmund Patrick confer 16:26, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

## ArbCom 2017 election voter message

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## This Month in GLAM: November 2017

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## Books and Bytes - Issue 25

The Wikipedia Library

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## Nomination of Jesse Ellis for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jesse Ellis is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jesse Ellis until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. –Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 13:05, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

## Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox UK school

Template:Infobox UK school has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox school. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Steven (Editor) (talk) 20:13, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: December 2017

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To July 2018

## WPSCH

FYI: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Schools#Coordinators. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:20, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Hello again Clem, hope all is well. the wiki article The Ambassadors (Holbein) lists a blue link Universal equinoctial dial (disassembled) which sends the reader to, guess what, Sundials. I can understand the confusion as the painting was created in 1533. So one of the articles is either wrong on date or wrong on type of time measuring equipment is shown.where do we go next? Edmund Patrick confer 11:21, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

unless the important part is the word "ring". ambassadors says Universal equinoctial dial whereas the editor is looking for a universal equinoctial ring dial. maybe suitable working in the article to stop further confusion? Yours Edmund Patrick confer 11:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Astronomical rings#Traveller's sundial or universal equinoctal ring dial discusses them all quite thoroughly. I really think that Mr Holbein should have been more diligent in his use of Wikipedia, or at least John North should have consulted with the Wellcome Library Media related to Astronomical instruments at Wikimedia Commons --ClemRutter (talk) 14:58, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

## Schools

School articles are typical targets for vandalism, and unsourced additions (particularly alumni). Don't be too timid about getting them protected or vandal accounts blocked. Quickest and most efficient is to ask me direct on my talk page. As you have seen, I usually react quite quickly. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

### And Fortimere School in particular

@Kudpung: I find that this is an interesting case study.

Firstly I have had a look at all our top importance UK schools. No comprehensives, no state schools, no girls schools and only one mixed-school. And 50% in West London, all in the south. This seems wildly imbalanced. I can understand Eton but why not Benenden or Roedean. I can understand Summerhill but why not the Stantonbury Campus. Eton is tiny with 1250 pupils, Nottingham Academy has 3870. Why not Manchester Grammar School (1515) 211 notable alumni or Stoneyhurst (163 alumni including 3 saints), both are north of the Mersey? Do the criteria need to be examined again?

Secondly we are short of model articles on state schools where we can direct new users looking for inspiration. Could you bring it up to a B, or pen a few lines to explain how it fails- this school has the advantage of being a foundation school and history. The comparison it could be useful when writing WP:WPSCH/AG and explaining assessment. ClemRutter (talk) 17:23, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

## Hi Clem

I'm teaching again at Loughborough University next month - and we'll be using your guide. Although not decided whether to focus on visual editing yet. All the best Victuallers (talk) 15:41, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

. If there are any changes to be made- let me know. There is a very easy warm-up task for undergraduates. If they look at {{Infobox UK school}} on any schools page they will not normally find `|pushpin_map = Derbyshire` it is a very quick way to make a spectacular difference. See Lees Brook Community School Thirty students doing 20 or so edits in different counties- could make a lot of progress. I am interested in watching undergrads trying to edit on their mobile phones- it sure beats me, but maybe their fingers and brains have evolved to the point where it is possible. At any rate, having a phone friendly tutorial material is worth thinking about.ClemRutter (talk) 16:54, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks Clem, These are masters students - mostly Chinese, but I'm not sure I'm up to teaching it on a phone!! Victuallers (talk) 17:14, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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## Books and Bytes - Issue 26

The Wikipedia Library

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Issue 26, December – January 2018

• #1Lib1Ref
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## This Month in GLAM: January 2018

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## Cash's name tapes

Hallo Clem, Cash's exists - rather than proposing a merge formally, would you like to just turn your new item into a redirect? (My parents used up our old school nametapes, just the surname, putting them into the coats and jackets which they regularly left behind at meetings etc!) PamD 22:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

And Companies House https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08630374 seems to show that the company number became GFKK Ltd and then Cash's Apparel Solutions. PamD 22:30, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
I also remember buying for my parents a splendid luggage strap with their unusual surname woven into it, which I then passed on to a male cousin, the only remaining holder of the surname in the family, on their demise! Was reminded because the site at https://jjcash.co.uk/woven-collection.php still shows luggage straps. PamD 22:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Good to work together again. I came across these again when I was looking at small article on school uniforms in England and the public schools usually specified a mandatory supplier- and they insisted on using Cash's name tapes by name. I have set up the redirect to an anchor, but I think that there is more that can be added- it does explain the By Royal Appointment bit. --ClemRutter (talk) 23:22, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

## Precious five years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:10, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

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## SB Centaur

Hi. Thank you for the thanks. The article may look a little odd for a while, as I have inserted a description section. It may be empty for a couple of days while I try to research a technical description - I have a vague idea of trying to work it up to GA status. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:28, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

thanks from me as well, it looks an interesting article. One question - the article says it is now located at "The Hythe in Maldon" but those look like different places to me. Is "The Hythe" link pointing to the wrong one? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 14:38, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
@Amakuru: That's forensic. Well spotted. Thank you. It looks as if someone has gone a little link happy at some stage. Fixed. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

I have been spending a lot of time on SB Kathleen and particularly the diagrams, which can be easily modified for any barge. The "I have a vague idea of trying to work it up to GA status." is an awesome idea! Go for it- I could learn so much from just being a minion- and will put in help when required. ClemRutter (talk) 15:25, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

## Editing News #1—2018

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If you enable the Beta Feature for "Visual differences", you will have a new option. It will give you a new box at the top of every diff page. This box will let you choose either diff system on any edit.

Click the toggle button to switch between visual and wikitext diffs.

In the visual diff, additions, removals, new links, and formatting changes will be highlighted. Other changes, such as changing the size of an image, are described in notes on the side.

This screenshot shows the same edit as the wikitext diff. The visual diff highlights the removal of one word and the addition of a new sentence. An arrow indicates that the paragraph changed location.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has spent most of their time supporting the 2017 wikitext editor mode, which is available inside the visual editor as a Beta Feature, and improving the visual diff tool. Their work board is available in Phabricator. You can find links to the work finished each week at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. Their current priorities are fixing bugs, supporting the 2017 wikitext editor, and improving the visual diff tool.

### Recent changes

• The 2017 wikitext editor is available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices. It has the same toolbar as the visual editor and can use the citoid service and other modern tools. The team have been comparing the performance of different editing environments. They have studied how long it takes to open the page and start typing. The study uses data for more than one million edits during December and January. Some changes have been made to improve the speed of the 2017 wikitext editor and the visual editor. Recently, the 2017 wikitext editor opened fastest for most edits, and the 2010 WikiEditor was fastest for some edits. More information will be posted at mw:Contributors/Projects/Editing performance.
• The visual diff tool was developed for the visual editor. It is now available to all users of the visual editor and the 2017 wikitext editor. When you review your changes, you can toggle between wikitext and visual diffs. You can also enable the new Beta Feature for "Visual diffs". The Beta Feature lets you use the visual diff tool to view other people's edits on page histories and Special:RecentChanges. [27]
• Wikitext syntax highlighting is available as a Beta Feature for both the 2017 wikitext editor and the 2010 wikitext editor. [28]
• The citoid service automatically translates URLs, DOIs, ISBNs, and PubMed id numbers into wikitext citation templates. This tool has been used at the English Wikipedia for a long time. It is very popular and useful to editors, although it can be tricky for admins to set up. Other wikis can have this service, too. Please read the instructions. You can ask the team to help you enable citoid at your wiki.

### Let's work together

• The team is planning a presentation about editing tools for an upcoming Wikimedia Foundation metrics and activities meeting.
• The `<references />` block can automatically display long lists of references in columns on wide screens. This makes footnotes easier to read. This has already been enabled at the English Wikipedia. If you want columns for a long list of footnotes on this wiki, you can use either `<references />` or the plain (no parameters) `{{reflist}}` template. If you edit a different wiki, you can request multi-column support for your wiki. [29]

User:Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:14, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

## Rochester-built

Re this - Medway is no more ambiguous than Clyde in Category:Clyde-built ships, I think you have to draw the line somewhere - whilst also avoiding WP:OVERCATEGORISATION (and I was also avoiding a WP:REDNOT. And it's not as though Rochester is unambiguous.... Le Deluge (talk) 18:47, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive, or protective. There were a lot of redlinks to conquer. National Historic Ships site uses Rochester for both port of registration, and build. Look also at the transoms and you see the barge described as Lady Daphne of Rochester. This extend nto childrens fiction with the Welcome of Rochester featuring in the Coot Club. In the reference books on barges that I am using, admittedly from 1950s, there are fewer mentions of the Medway than Rochester. There were many Category:Chatham-built ships and that has a category, Rochester and Strood and possibly Frindsbury will be following that example. Look to the London River and there is a thriving subcat- for Northfleet and a less thriving one for Gravesend again forming a precedent. Doing it this way will save time in the future- I hope. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

## Syllabus (legal)

• It doesn't seem to be included in the source[30]
• it is a dictionary definition and as such belongs on Wiktionary, not here, per WP:NOTDICTIONARY.

If you agree, can you tag it for G7 speedy deletion please? Fram (talk) 14:54, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

@Fram: Sorry- There is a lot of work to be done on syllabus. This stops a red link Syllabus (disambiguation), which starts to open up syllabus which is in the schools domain. I hope that some one with legal experience can expand this. You are right- it was top of Google too! Here is a US example .

--ClemRutter (talk) 15:21, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: February 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue II, February 2018 Headlines Belgium report: Photo contest Wiki Loves Public Space Brazil report: Starting new GLAM partnerships Bulgaria report: The first Bulgarian wikitown presented at an International Tourist Fair in Sofia Côte d'Ivoire report: Editing with more librarians as we expanded #1Lib1Ref campaign Finland report: Finland's First Wikimedian in Residence to Kansallisarkisto Germany report: GLAM in galleries Italy report: Boosting collaborations Macedonia report: Startup of the WikiIndustry project Norway report: Intern program for library students Sweden report: WiR at The National Museums of World Culture UK report: Scotland's Public Libraries move toward first edit-a-thons USA report: February made me shiver Special story: Pattypan 18.02: The uploading tool now includes STL support Wikidata report: Cool Tools WMF GLAM report: Structured Data on Commons, Wikidata Workshop materials, and Spring Travel Calendar: March's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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## File:Stalybridge Mill, Stalybridge 0008.png

Hi Clem, how are you? I just came across File:Stalybridge Mill, Stalybridge 0008.png - did you mean to publish this as a fair-use image, or could you release it under a free license, please? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:09, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

I did try, if you look at the category Category:Mills owned by the Lancashire Cotton Corporation Limited you will see 49 files from the same book all dated around 2009- and 49 articles all dated from the same time. They were all replacements for the 49 images that I had uploadded to commons that were deleted by a kind wikignome. I persisted as you would expect. If you know of a way to get them onto commons- we can try again and do a third mass upload. I am not getting up-north as often now as the surrogate daughter in Glossop has moved down to Languedoc- and the grandchildren are in Nottingham. But meet up soon.--ClemRutter (talk) 09:15, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

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## Requets

Hello. Help more sources and expand the newspaper Maureen Wroblewitz. Thanks you very much.171.248.246.158 (talk) 10:08, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I got one too! Matter closed.--ClemRutter (talk) 10:28, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

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## This Month in GLAM: March 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue III, March 2018 Headlines Australia report: Regional GLAM workshops and Art+Feminism Belgium report: GenderGap edit-a-thon; GLAM at Open Belgium Brazil report: Brazilian user group and Portuguese chapter join forces for Women’s International Month Côte d'Ivoire report: Reflecting upon #1Lib1Ref impact, upcoming collaborations Czech Republic report: Second edit-a-thon in Slaný and new cooperation with Institut of Bohuslav Martinů Estonia report: Paintings and photographers' biographies to Wikidata, translation of Rightsstatements.org, rephotography app Finland report: Combining coding, learning and culture France report: CNES, Musée Bourdelle Germany report: Presentation "70. Westfälischer Archivtag" India report: Impact of Odisha Government content donation on Wikimedia Projects Ireland report: Art+Feminism boom in Ireland Italy report: Women's month Macedonia report: Startup of the WikiBeer project & "Bitalon" - The Hackaton of Bitola Serbia report: Edit-a-thons and digitazation of books Spain report: Wikipedia courses in libraries Sweden report: National Museums of World Culture; Air Force Museum Ukraine report: Article Contest for Libraries USA report: Women's History Month Special story: GLAM WIKI Conference in Tel Aviv, November 2018 Wikidata report: Family Favourites WMF GLAM report: Structured Data on Commons; Upcoming events and travel Calendar: April's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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## Books & Bytes - Issue 27

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 27, February – March 2018

• #1Lib1Ref
• New collections
• Alexander Street (expansion)
• Cambridge University Press (expansion)
• User Group
• Global branches update
• Wiki Indaba Wikipedia + Library Discussions
• Spotlight: Using librarianship to create a more equitable internet: LGBTQ+ advocacy as a wiki-librarian
• Bytes in brief

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:50, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

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## This Month in GLAM: April 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue IV, April 2018 Headlines Australia report: HerStory in Alice Springs and Australasian Open Access Strategy Belgium report: Everybody WIKI Brazil report: Labs to introduce Wikidata and its potentialities in Brazil Catalan areas report: Event: Role of Wikimedia in the era of Open Science France report: City of Grenoble Italy report: Libraries in the spotlight Macedonia report: Macedonian Wikiexpeditions exhibition and workshops with Wiki Clubs members Netherlands report: 325,000 images from Dutch photo archives uploaded by Mr.Nostalgic Philippines report: First Wikipedian in Residence in the Philippines Portugal report: Partnerships, GLAMs & Art+feminism Serbia report: Strong support from the Ministry of culture and information of Republic of Serbia: Financing the three WIR programs and realizing GLAM seminars Sweden report: National museum of world Culture; Sounds and pronunciations; Nordic Museum Tunisia report: Upload Book UK report: National Library of Wales and Oxford University USA report: April showers Wikidata report: April Love WMF GLAM report: Wikipedians in Residence and Travel Calendar: May's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## This Month in GLAM: May 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue V, May 2018 Headlines Armenia report: GLAM meetings and collaborations Australia report: GLAM Peak having impact & International Museum Day edit-a-thon Belgium report: Public domain month celebration; Edit-a-thon Amnesty International Vlaanderen; Upcoming photo contest: Wiki Loves Heritage Brazil report: New milestones for Brazilian GLAMs France report: Bibliothèque universitaire de la Sorbonne; Laboratoire Latmos; Study day on photographic as heritage Germany report: Two fantastic weekends with science fiction literature and the history of mining made audible Ireland report: First Irish GLAM upload to Wikimedia Commons; Hunt Museum is first Irish GLAM to donate images to Wikimedia Commons Italy report: Contests, webinair and meetings Macedonia report: GLAM activities Netherlands report: Women Tech Storm, GWToolset workshop and Wiki goes Caribbean Norway report: Bodil Biørn and human rights Portugal report: FEM's GLAM and Guinea-Bissau Russia report: GLAM in Russia: need more contests Serbia report: Wikipedian in residence in the Museum of Yugoslavia Sweden report: Democracy; Museum of World Culture UK report: Scottish Library and Information Council USA report: AfroCROWD Wikipedia Editor's Article on Doria Ragland Tops Wiki Search List For UK Royal Wedding: Libraries Key in her Wikipedian Journey Wikipedia Library report: Books & Bytes Wikidata report: EuropeanaTech conference, Lexicographical data, plus all your usual news WMF GLAM report: Recent travels; Structured Data on Commons updates Calendar: June's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## Books & Bytes – Issue 28

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 28, April – May 2018

• #1Bib1Ref
• New partners
• User Group update
• Global branches update
• Wikipedia Library global coordinators' meeting
• Spotlight: What are the ten most cited sources on Wikipedia? Let's ask the data
• Bytes in brief

Arabic, Chinese, Hindi, Italian and French versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

## Orphaned non-free image File:Isca Academy uniform protest.jpeg

Thanks for uploading File:Isca Academy uniform protest.jpeg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:37, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

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## This Month in GLAM: June 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue VI, June 2018 Headlines From the team: New look; Promotion: flyer Armenia report: Museums workers experiencing Wikidata power Australia report: Wikipedia Making Public Histories Brazil report: A GLAMWiki on the Belgian Heritage in Brazil France report: Archaeology day in Toulouse; Institut National d'Histoire de l'art; Palais des beaux-arts de Lille Germany report: Cornerstone ceremony MiQua Indonesia report: From Eastern Indonesia on Commons Italy report: Wiki Weekend in Trentino; Fortezza delle Verrucole edit-a-thon Macedonia report: Wiki Tour in the City Library, WWI editing days & WikiGap Skopje Netherlands report: Wiki writing sprint Open Science New Zealand report: A New Zealand Wikipedian at Large Russia report: All Russia under a free license Serbia report: GLAM Seminar, WIR and GLAM/Edu camp Sweden report: SMVK upload; Swedish National Archives; Wikidata connects Swedish people / archives using Wikidata tool hub; Topographical register at the Swedish National Archives; LIBRIS XL - Bibframe 2.0 and open linked data UK report: Wikidata at Oxford USA report: Wiki Loves Pride 2018 + Bootcamp Wikidata report: Concordance, Cloud, Citations & Commons Wikimania report: GLAM at Wikimania 2018 Wikimedia and Libraries User Group: Poll to direct activities WMF GLAM report: Structured Data on Commons and Wikimania Calendar: July's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## Conversion of historic units to SI in land title

I don't know anything about US practice but proving you own a piece of land by being able to produce a trail of contracts [aka the deeds] was ubiquitous worldwide until relative recently but nowadays is increasingly no longer true. The problem with that traditional model is that the government has difficulty levying taxes unless it can see who owns what. Enter the Land Registry.

Of course it would be a mammoth task for the Registrar to visit every conceivable location to demand the data. So they don't. A law is made that makes all future contracts of sale invalid unless registered [usually concurrently with proving title]. Thereafter, presence of a record on the Registry is sufficient to assert title, no need to go back to 1066 and all that: the "deeds" you get nowadays have only sentimental value. So now we have these records on a nice database, albeit maybe in square cubits but that doesn't matter. A simple algorithm will display the data in whatever notation you want, while keeping the original "as surveyed“ data in a logical drawer until there is a good reason to resurvey [division for example]. It works very well in the UK and I'm surprised if the USA has not done likewise since property taxes are a much bigger thing there. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:04, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: July 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue VII, July 2018 Headlines Armenia report: Collaborating with GLAM Structure: Armenian Content Replenished in 45 Wikipedias Australia report: A land of ragged mountains Brazil report: Rare cartographic collection uploaded by Brazilian GLAM France report: Wikidata workshop around heritage Germany report: The European Cultural Heritage Summit in Berlin and two visits in Potsdam Italy report: Monuments and minorities Macedonia report: The month of Festivals covered on Wikipedia Netherlands report: Matching the GTAA thesaurus with Wikidata; Hands-on Pattypan training Norway report: Seminar at The National Archives of Norway and Sami music and culture festivals Serbia report: Wikipedian in Residence at the Museum of Yugoslavia: History of Yugoslavia on Wikipedia Sweden report: National Library of Sweden UK report: Oxford GLAMs and Celtic Knot 2018 USA report: Summer in July Special story: Commons transcription tool Wikipedia Library report: Books & Bytes–Issue 29, June–July 2018 Wikidata report: News from Cape Town, Aberystwyth, Berlin, Milan and Everywhere Calendar: August's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.
December 2018

## Western education

Western education, which is currently a redirect to Secular education, has been nominated at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 August 14#Western education to discuss whether this is the best target, and if not what is. From conversations at Wikimeets, I get the impression that this is something you may have opinions regarding - if so, please feel free to join the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 11:31, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

## Books & Bytes – Issue 29

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 29, June – July 2018

Hindi, Italian and French versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!

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## This Month in GLAM: August 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue VIII, August 2018 Headlines Armenia report: Museums workers experiencing Wikidata power Australia report: WikiTourAU and Researchers Week Brazil report: Brazilian Wikimedians develop tools for mass contributions: Mbabel and Import-500px France report: Ceramics and monuments Germany report: Wikipedia meets antiquity in Xanten Ireland report: Stories and Connections: Editing workshop in National Gallery of Ireland Kosovo report: First WoALUG contribution to this newsletter Macedonia report: WikiCity tour in Kočani and Vinica Malaysia report: World Library and Information Congress 2018 Portugal report: GLAMifying the National Library Republic of Korea report: Launch of GLAM Newsletter on Repupublic of Korea Serbia report: Wikimedians in residence at two Serbian museums Sweden report: FindingGLAMs; National Library of Sweden; Crowdsourcing Structured Data on Commons for GLAMs UK report: Sum of All Astrolabes; Exploring Collections with Wikidata USA report: Wiknics and Wikidata Wikidata report: Upcoming conferences, and more WMF GLAM report: Wikimania, Wikimedians in Residence, Structured Data on Commons, and upcoming conferences Calendar: September's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## Mystery Thames Barge

Hi there, please see commons:Category:Essex_(ship,_1896). Is this the Mercia? -Broichmore (talk) 09:01, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

There are only 2 images in cat- one is flipped, and one is a crop. I have looked at the name on the bow- if anything it would be Mersea to fit. I have no reference to a barge called Mer... or .mer...- so that doesn-t help. The other clue is the bob-the pennant- who would tell us the owner- I think they are the same in both images (Essex and Suffolk+2 paddlers). The closest being Samuel West 1949- but we do need colour. By 1949 the biggest barge owners in Ipswich were R&W Paul but their bob was a red field with a white X on it. No, can be of help there. I am unsure of the caption "leaving". Look at the anchor- if she were leaving it would be raised and visible. If she was coming to a mooring, the mate would drop the anchor slightly below the barge, so that it wouldn't scrape the quay or other vessels. I am penning a paragraph in SB George Smeed on typical practice. ClemRutter (talk) 11:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
But mersea museum America 085177 London Brentford. ClemRutter (talk) 11:20, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, Clem. Are you going to write to RMG. They take about a week to reply. The original negative is probably good enough to confirm the name. You could remind them they have mirrored the image. I noticed the National Archives have records for Smiths Suitall, stationers, Ipswich: records incl staff records 1893-1972 (HA453), alas I'm sure no help to us. This is an interesting web page Broichmore (talk) 13:03, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

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Hi Clem. I've tried to sort out the disambig issues on George Smeed's page, but am stumped by references to "Gravesend tier" (see talk page). Could they be transcription errors somewhere between Benham and Wiki for "Gravesend Pier"? I've also added coordinates for the points Benham mentions (and a couple of footnotes for those unfamiliar with the Thames). I'm not sure that inline is necessarily the best place though, do you thing that moving them into the footnotes section would be a better idea? Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

I have just posted a gov pdf that lists the tiers in the estuary. A mooring point to a buoy I think. ClemRutter (talk) 14:01, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
OED has the answer. A tier is a row of ships moored or anchored ... hence an anchorage or mooring-place. I'll add a note to George Smeed and put something in the disambig page. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:17, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

## Thuringia aka ...

Hi ClemRutter,

you reverted my modification of Simon & Halbig, click here. I've two problems with that.

First, I assume you didn't notice that I've also corrected Hidburghausen into Hildburghausen. Via Google I've found a German source that in Hildburg actually an old porcellain manufactury was situated, and the place Hidburghausen does not exist even in the German Wikipedia, therefore I think my modification was correct. I've inserted that again now.

Second, if you want to distinguish between the region Thuringen and the goverment division, your revert doesn't help: Thuringen is actually a redir on Thuringia.

I'm a native German speaker, and in our language, we don't make a big difference between the state Thüringen and the region Thüringen. I've always thought that Thuringia is the English translation of this Thüringen. Or do have native English speaking people really two different words for the region and the state? I can't believe this, especially because of the Thuringen redir.

Note also that I made similar contributions in Ernst Heubach amd Armand Marseille.

Regards --Cyfal (talk) 18:42, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Entschuldigen Sie! German has had a problem with Rechtschriebungreformen Jahrelang, and Britain has had problems with colonials who insist on speaking pre-1776 English. I assumed that my ancient Duden was telling me the truth, and I was dealing with an editor who was trying to make colour into color, and favour into favor! To me Thuringia is old fashioned and an abomination and Thüringen is the correct spelling- but, please take the lead and make any changes you want, I'll support you. ClemRutter (talk) 19:06, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you! Then I change it back to Thuringia, just because currently that is the name of the Wikipedia article and Thüringen only a redir. Perhaps this is the language of a former British colony where the people now even write color and favor? (Just a joke, dear Americans!) By the way, I've also change your user page because I think you deserve it! --Cyfal (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

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## British Naturism page

As requested a few comments. I retired as a BN director a couple of years ago but I probably still shouldn't edit the BN page. I am not sure if you would see my reply on my talk page, not sure how that works, so putting it here to ensure delivery.

Pretty good but it muddles a couple of things and the word "solution" does not explain the problem that it was solving. My wording is a bit clumsy in places but I suggest something like:

In 2013, following action by British Naturism and others, the Crown Prosecution Service issued guidance[1] which greatly reduced the number of mistakes being made.

In 2018, following correspondence and meetings between British Naturism and senior officers at the College of Policing, they published mutually satisfactory guidelines for the handling of complaints about nudity and for the policing of Naturism. Emergency call operators and serving police officers now have the appropriate advice available online and in their training manual. The URL of the advice has been added to the British Naturism membership card.

The legal status of Naturism:

• Naturism is protected as a philosophical belief by the Equalities Act of 2010.
• Naturism is protected by several articles of the Human Rights Act 1993.
• Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 does not apply to passive nudity.
• Section 66 of the 2003 Sexual Offences Act was carefully worded to protect naturists from prosecution.
• Using nudity with the intention of causing "harassment, alarm or distress" can be an offence under both section 4/4A Public Order Act 1986 and section 66 Sexual Offences Act 2003.[13]

I notice that the list of Milestones is a bit inconsistent and has some errors.

• The list of conventions is incomplete. Last year and this in Birmingham for example, and there may be others missing.
• The opinion polls were 2002 and 2012. (Or perhaps a year earlier for each). Figure quoted is from the second one.
• Should include the publication of CPS guidance
• Should include the publication of College of Policing advice
• Should mention similar work in Scotland and Northern Ireland over the last few years.

Does the page mention that membership, previously declining, is now growing strongly? 6% year on year at present.

A lot of the above needs sources citing.

Cheers MalcolmBoura (talk) 20:24, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: September 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue IX, September 2018 Headlines Albania report: Collections of Museums in Albania Armenia report: GLAM+Wikidata Australia report: WikiTour AU Brazil report: Developing tGLAM: a landing-page generator for GLAM initiatives France report: European Heritage Days; Linked data for archaeology; Paris: Edit-a-thon at Mobilier National Germany report: History of Women and Democracy, Wikipedia-Culture-Ambassadors and two GLAM-on-Tour-stations in just four weeks Macedonia report: Wiki camps in Macedonia Malaysia report: Wikipedia for Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museum Mexico report: Open GLAM Mexico 2018 Netherlands report: >20,000 press photographs 1940-1990 uploaded, GLAM Wiki Meeting, Aerial Photographs, GLAM-Wiki Manual & Wikipedia Course for Historical Societies Norway report: Women in Red; Researhers Days 2018; The 2019 edition of #wikinobel Poland report: Archival photographs and literary knowledge enrich Polish Wikipedia Serbia report: Impact of GLAM seminars: Decentralization of GLAM activities Sweden report: Wikidata P3595 Biografiskt lexikon för Finland; Student Project at the Nordic Museum; Learning about sources on Swedish Wikipedia UK report: Botanical illustrations and Wiki Loves Monuments in Scotland USA report: Back to school Wikipedia Library report: Books & Bytes–Issue 30, August–September 2018 Wikidata report: Wikidata Tour Down Under Calendar: October's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## List of schools in Reading, Berkshire and List of schools in Wokingham

Hi there - would you mind having a look at these two articles? A user has added a lot of training providers which are not schools. I have removed them once and the user has added them again. Tried to start a discussion on the talk page but no success. What do you think? Thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

I'll have a go. It strikes me that he is still at school in Berkshire- possibly at Bulmershe (wild guess)- and is technically able, but needs mentoring rather than criticism. I am too kind. The interest in training centres comes from his personal need to find the information, and having done some previous editing looked at WP first. I don't see this as COI or Financial gain
Those two pages are like nothing I have seen- but still of poor quality, so, with your permission, I will go in a do a roll-back. If we produce info like that for the List of schools on every county we will need to employ staff. I will leave some heavy encouragement on the edit summary- and we will see if we can make a good editor out of him, and leave him with some proud achievements to blazon on his CV. ClemRutter (talk) 19:48, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
That's great - thanks very much. Tacyarg (talk) 21:13, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

## Books & Bytes, Issue 30

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 30, August – Septmeber 2018

• Library Card translation
• Spotlight: 1Lib1Ref spreads to the Southern Hemisphere and beyond
• Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
• Global branches update
• Bytes in brief

French version of Books & Bytes is now available in meta!

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## Facto Post – Issue 17 – 29 October 2018

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:01, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi ClemRutter - would you mind having a look at Everest Community Academy, specifically the bit about misleading exam results at the end? I'm wondering if this is original research and should be taken out. I'm all for picking up schools which overstate results, but I think we'd need a source which says that, rather than an editor who is comparing data themselves? Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 09:32, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes,  Done --ClemRutter (talk) 11:49, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you again. Tacyarg (talk) 20:22, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

## Editing News #2—2018

Did you know?

Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Tap on the pencil icon to start editing. The page will probably open in the wikitext editor.

You will see another pencil icon in the toolbar. Tap on that pencil icon to the switch between visual editing and wikitext editing.

Remember to publish your changes when you're done.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has wrapped up most of their work on the 2017 wikitext editor and the visual diff tool. The team has begun investigating the needs of editors who use mobile devices. Their work board is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are fixing bugs and improving mobile editing.

### Let's work together

• The Editing team wants to improve visual editing on the mobile website. Please read their ideas and tell the team what you think would help editors who use the mobile site.
• The Community Wishlist Survey begins next week.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

## Fireproof construction

I was very surprised to discover that this generic construction term redirected to cotton mill. I understand that fireproof construction has some specific meaning in the context of mills, but, at least in America, it's been widely used for many types of buildings for a long period of time, but especially around the turn of the 20th-century. e.g. Fire Engineering (1909),NYC building code (1938),De Man System (1901),Fireproof Construction (1911). Pburka (talk) 00:19, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

@Pburka:See your point. We are talking about a radical construction technique dating from the 1820- that must have crossed the pond and been common in the 1850s. It predated all the cast iron work in the great railway terminals, and the wrought iron and steel work of high rise b;ocks. The article fireproofing has little to do with construction- it is about remedial action on non-fireproof structures (generalisation)which is the term used in the NYC Buildin Codes. This is not a suitable landing point for the redirect. Similarly, the paragraph in Cotton mills only talks about pre 1880 stuff. It does look if we need to abandon the redirect, and just write the article. I am focussed on doing a wikithon tomorrow and I am not free till Thursday- so if you wish to start I'll come on in then.--ClemRutter (talk) 15:20, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: October 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue X, October 2018 Headlines Belgium report: Erbstuecke edit-a-thon; Women in Tech edit-a-thon; Wiki Club Brussels; Wikidata workshop + party Brazil report: "There is no reason not to participate in a GLAM-Wiki initiative": an interview with the director of the Museum of Veterinary Anatomy Estonia report: Estonian art and geoscience collections finding their way to Commons Finland report: (RE)Photographic autumn France report: GLAMWiki 2018 Tel Aviv; City of Grenoble Germany report: GLAMorous Conferences Netherlands report: ‘More Gelders Heritage available via Wikimedia’ by Erfgoed Gelderland; Writing week Friesland; Wiki Techstorm Norway report: Wiki Loves Monuments and wikinobel Poland report: Heirlooms - locally and internationally Serbia report: The growing GLAM Sweden report: Roundtripping Project, Books Import and Wikidata Imported to SOCH Switzerland report: Built heritage conservation on Commons; les sans pagEs at a Modern art museum UK report: Wikidata in Oxford USA report: Wikiconference North America Culture Crawl WMF GLAM report: Documentation survey, Structured Data on Commons consultations, blog posts and conferences Calendar: November's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

Hi ClemRutter! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

-- 18:45, Monday, November 12, 2018 (UTC)

## Babylonians

Hey... thanks. That’ll take me more than a few days to read. Any suggestions for my query at Talk:Gravity#Heavy?

So (just jumping ahead) did the Babylonians have any "machine" to line up their sight of planets? Could they measure position to less than 2 minutes? And Greeks?

MBG02 (talk) 20:39, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

(Jumping back...) I guess that was a dumb question; everything (including the sun) was measured against the "fixed stars"; I was imagining something that helped measure angles to the sun and (somehow) longitude or “real time”. MBG02 (talk) 21:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

## Proposed deletion of Unique reference number

The article Unique reference number has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This is a hopless article. Let me count the ways: first, a URN is hardly unique to the UK government in the context of schools - all sorts of lists have unique reference numbers. They go under all sorts of names, including 'unique eference number'. Next, that HMG may have a URN for its schools is not notable. It is not notable because it is a commonplace thing - see my first point. Next, the article seems to be about three different URNs, going under different names, such as URN, UKPRN and Ofsted URN. So the content of the article does not match its title - always problematic. You /might/ get the article to fly under a title of, say "UK school numbering systems", but you might equally find that the information can be folded into existing wikipedia articles, such as on DfEE or on Education in the United Kingdom.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the `{{proposed deletion/dated}}` notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing `{{proposed deletion/dated}}` will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Tagishsimon (talk) 03:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

## Speedy deletion nomination of Unique reference number

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Unique reference number requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ofsted_urn_and_dfe_urn and http://www.ukrlp.co.uk/ukrlp/ukrlp.first. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to use it for any reason — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The same holds if you are not the owner but have their permission. If you are not the owner and do not have permission, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for how you may obtain it. You might want to look at Wikipedia's copyright policy for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 15:51, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

From your remarks on my talk page, I get the impression you don't realize how strict our copyright policy actually is. When writing for Wikipedia, content has to be written in your own words and not include any wording from the source material at all. One thing I find that works for me is to read over the source material and then pretend I am verbally describing the topic to a friend in my own words. Stuff should also be presented in a different order where possible. Summarize rather than paraphrase. This will typically result in your version being much shorter than the source document. There's some reading material on this topic at Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing and/or have a look at the material at Purdue or study this module aimed at WikiEd students. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 02:25, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

If you can't re-write it in your own words, don't add it - to do so is a violation of the copyright policy of this website. There's really no exceptions to this. That's why the article had to be deleted. I've made a copyright-compliant version for you in my sandbox so you can see that it's possible to create an article on this topic while complying with the terms of this website. User:Diannaa/sandbox. You can use it if you like, as long as you give proper attribution. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks.I'll put it on my harddisk straight away, so we can use it on whatever the page is eventually called.ClemRutter (talk) 15:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
I created the page, and it now exists at Ofsted Unique Reference Number. Cheers, — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 16:34, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

## ArbCom 2018 election voter message

 Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

## ArbCom 2018 election voter message

 Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi ClemRutter - would you be able to have a look at Abington Academy? I haven't been able to engage with the editor who is putting a lot of detail on the page. Many thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 11:22, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I have had a look- and where do we start. Firstly, the title- Wigston Academy is where most of the stuff should be, we will have trouble establishing notability,for a defunct middle school -- this is going to take a little time. Can I put it on my to do list? We don't want to lose an enthusiastic youngster--but he has a lot to learn. --ClemRutter (talk) 11:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes, no problem. Let me know if or how I can help. Tacyarg (talk) 20:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Coal Drops Yard, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ecstasy (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:28, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

## ClemRutter/sandbox/maps

ClemRutter/sandbox/maps probably doesn't want to be in article space? --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:30, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. I have tried to fix it with a {{Db-g7}} lets see what I got wrong there! Thanks. --ClemRutter (talk) 20:05, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

## Facto Post – Issue 18 – 30 November 2018

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:20, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

## Nottingham College

Hi there, thanks for your recent interest in the Nottingham College Wikipedia article. I have been looking at your edits on the wiki entry and certainly like what I've seen so far. Historically all of the legacy college entries Castle College, South Nottingham College, Central College Nottingham and New College Nottingham (our history is long!) have suffered from poor sources or lack of cited information entirely. Given Nottingham College is now one of the biggest colleges in the UK it certainly does warrant a more detailed and cited entry.

You've probably noticed my declaration that I am an employee of Nottingham College. I'm obviously trying to be careful with my edits to not cause a conflict of interest or bias, but I'm happy to work with you and fact check/cross check the new information format. Happy to discuss further on the talk page on the entry itself.

Thanks for your edits on the entry so far.

Jamesmacwhite (talk) 20:23, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: November 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue XI, November 2018 Headlines Albania report: Wiki Photo Walk Albania 2018; Wiki Loves Monuments Albania Armenia report: Singing Wikipedia; Photographs by Vahan Kochar Brazil report: Diverse milestones for the Brazilian community Denmark report: Intercontinental digitisation efforts Estonia report: Making contacts both internationally and in Estonia Finland report: Art and edit-a-thons France report: Bibliothèque publique d’information; 3D museum collections on Wikimedia Commons Indonesia report: Conserving and digitizing texts in West Sumatra Macedonia report: Wiki Training at National and University Library "St. Clement of Ohrid" New Zealand report: Equity, Wikidata, and the New York Times Norway report: Collaboration with The National Archives of Norway Philippines report: Wiki Loves Art Poland report: Archival image uploads, student collaborations and international projects Serbia report: Photo finish of the WIR's Sweden report: The Swedish Performing Arts Agency; Library data starts to take shape; Learning Wikipedia at the Archives; Wikimedia Commons Data Roundtripping UK report: Sum of All Astrolabes USA report: Wikidata Workshop at Pratt School of Information; Wikidata Presentation for the New York Technical Services Librarians; Wikipedia Asian Month; Cleveland Park Wikipedia Edit-a-thon; Historic Ivy Hill Cemetery Workshop Wikipedia Library report: Books & Bytes–Issue 31, October–November 2018 WMF GLAM report: Welcoming Satdeep Gill; Structured Data on Commons; WikiCite Calendar: December's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## WiR talk

Clem, can I gently say that I find your most recent post on WiR somewhat barking mad, and bordering on or over the border of offensive. You may or may not want to amend it or withdraw it in light of these comments. At best, I think you may have grasped the wrong end of the stick.

• I certainly favour a direct approach to the Guardian
Why? Victoria Leonard the author of the piece is a wikipedian. The Wikipedia:Women's Classical Committee to which the article relates, is a wikiproject. So approach the Guardian for what, exactly?
• it was obviously a slow news day.
Now imagine you are Victoria, a wikipedian who has just written and got published that article. "it was obviously a slow news day". Offended much? I think so.
• To be positive they went to the trouble to print it- and that to my mind was a request from them to get involved. Do contact:John Lubbock WMUK.
Why? To what end?
• It was a pity they didn't check the facts with WMUK
Who or what is WMUK? Okay, I know what WMUK is, but why do you think anyone should have contacted it? The figures on article and editor ratios Victoria cites are as accurate as we have. WMUK neither speak for UK Wikipedians nor for Wikipedia as a whole. It's not necessary for anyone writing about wikipedia or wikipedia in the UK to include them in the loop.
And "they" is a wikipedian, not a "they". Again, offended? I think so.
• and notice that our CEO is called Lucy, and chairman is called Josie.
Again, what does that have to do with the price of bread? If doesn't alter the ~83:17 M/F ratio. And again, why do you think that WMUK having female officers is of any relevance to the article?
• We would love them to join us at the next London Wiki-meetup where Women in Red is always a topic of discussion.
That's ace, although it sounds frankly condescending.
• If the Guardian can provide us with a Central London venue we can provide the trainers, to help any group start on their Wikipedia careers. If these became regular it would be a massive PR boost for Guardian newspapers.
The group in question has been editing wikipedia articles for the last 2 years or so. They don't need help "starting their wikipedia careers".
• If the Guardian wants to provide the print space we can collaborate in producing a series of articles on the nuts and bolts of using Wikipedia, or the philosophy and ethics of the wiki-world- I am sure there are great similarities between our discussions and their boardroom conversations.
Good luck with that. Completely off topic for the question raised in the thread you posted.
• It would be really positive if the Guardian could be more precise about the copyright status of some of their text and images- the authors of a lot of the features would be perfectly happy to have them published under cc-0 or even cc-by-sa 4.0, which would remove a hurdle for our editors- it just need that to be stated in the text. (I am writing this on the assumption that the Guardian will be reading this too). The Guardian needs to know that we do have a large photo-library, which is cheaper to use than an agency! They have a nice regional photolibrary that they could open to us on a CC-BY_SA basis- this would be appreciated by Wikidata. Finally they need to know about the possibility of employing a Wikipedian in resident in the same way that the Wellcome foundation does- they could talk directly to ZeroMonk (Alice).
Ditto, you;re riding some hobbyhorse through what should be a discussion about a WiR #WCCWiki joint event. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:48, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
QED --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
We certainly are looking at different aspects of the article- you may be right. Yes, I happy to support joint WiR #WCCWiki actions- though classics has never been one of my fields. I am also keen to expand this further and develop contact and co-operation with the Guardian if we can, as that will benefit the whole project. I am surprised that you are not familiar with WMUK (Wikimedia UK) I did provide the wlink. They are our chapter!
Apologies if you didn't appreciate the irony of a slow news day- when HMG is collapsing and reporters are on overtime trying to follow the politics. Victoria's contribution was valid and interesting, the Guardian should though have contacted WMUK for comment, and should have included a quote from Josie.
In anything like this we need to look to how we can exploit it for the good of the project and I have listed some of the ways the Guardian can help us- and I suspect that we will be pushing at an open door. Lets push. I have alerted WMUK by email that the article was written- but apart from that this is the first time I have seen a reference to the article so I see it is entirely appropriate to raise a post here.

ClemRutter (talk) 22:03, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't think anyone who has read your post spotted any "irony". I know you've offended three readers so far, and, at least, deeply puzzled a fourth. I repeat my invitation to you to redact some or all of the post. To be very clear: it is slap-you-in-the-face offensive, and no amount of "shuck, irony" much later on ameliorates the situation. You need to decide on the balance between preserving what you doubtless thought was well intentioned and useful, versus the impression it's actually making.
The Guardian piece was a personal story by Victoria. There is no reason on God's earth why the Guardian would or should have contacted WMUK. First, it is simply not how personal pieces in newspapers work. Secondly, there was nothing in the article which required any comment from WMUK.
You say "I am surprised that you are not familiar with WMUK (Wikimedia UK) I did provide the wlink. They are our chapter! " Once more, you completely miss the point. "Who or what is WMUK? Okay, I know what WMUK is..." My point - which I see is still not getting through - is that WMUK is completely irrelevant to the issues at hand.
I don't know how Victoria floated her story. I tend to doubt that it signals any great willingness on the part of the Guardian to work with wikipedia. On the basis of your post on WiR and this page, and on the basis of my past exposure to WMUK, I tend to a negative opinion of any WMUK attempt to ride the coat-tails of this article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:28, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

## Books & Bytes, Issue 31

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 31, October – Novemeber 2018

• OAWiki
• Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
• Global branches update
• Bytes in brief

French version of Books & Bytes is now available on meta!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

## merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019

 Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019! Hello ClemRutter, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. Happy editing,Whispyhistory (talk) 08:34, 25 December 2018 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

## Merry Christmas

--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

## Facto Post – Issue 19 – 27 December 2018

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

To July 2019
SB Cambria in my home waters

Can I wish everyone an enjoyable New Year. ClemRutter (talk) 15:39, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

## This Month in GLAM: December 2018

 This Month in GLAM – Volume VIII, Issue XII, December 2018 Headlines Armenia report: Cooperation with Yerevan Drama Theatre Named After Hrachia Ghaplanian; Singing Wikipedia (continuation); Photographs by Vahan Kochar (continuation) Australia report: 2019 Australia's Year of the Public Domain Belgium report: Writing weeks German-speaking Community; End of year drink; Wiki Loves Heritage photo contest Brazil report: Google Art and GLAM initiatives in Brazil India report: Collaboration with RJVD Municipal Public Library Italy report: Challenges and alliances with libraries, WLM and more Macedonia report: Exhibition:"Poland through photographs" & Wikipedia lectures with children in social risk Malaysia report: Technology Talk and Update on Wikipedia @ National Library of Malaysia Portugal report: Glam Days '18 at the National Library of Portugal Sweden report: Hats 🎩🧢👒🎓 UK report: Oxford USA report: Holiday gatherings and visit to Internet Archive Wikidata report: Wikidata reports WMF GLAM report: Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons: pilot projects and multilingual captions Calendar: January's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

## Issues on Elizabeth College

Hey, I think I've dealt with the worst of the two errors in the header of Elizabeth College (Guernsey). Was hoping you could just skim through to see if it's up to scratch or if there are places that still need work. There are still a few uses of primary sources, a couple of which may be justified (directly quoting the most recent fees charged) and others just about ok for now, but will look to replace soon. As you will see I've already begun rearranging parts of the article and adding new sections (School site and buildings), and will continue with both Governance and expanding the Curriculum sections in due course. Thanks, and have fun tomorrow! Formulaonewiki (talk) 13:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Me again. Just wanted to get your thoughts before I make a big edit. I think the sequential school numbers assigned to pupils since 1824, which are inserted in brackets after any notable pupil where known, should be removed as it is unnecessary detail and even potentially confusing in some sections where the year of certain things happening is in brackets. What are your thoughts? Formulaonewiki (talk) 00:38, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Sometimes real life gets in the way. In a word, yes remove them. But do say the school maintains a register and that is indexed with numbers. The school song lyrics were a copyright violation. I have been looking at Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles and related articles for specific ideas on how we can get some further advice available for Wikipedia:Wikiproject Schools articles in the form of an essay. It has taken some time to research- who exactly is doing School GA Reviews so we can find what they are looking for. Look at St George's Academy (and the talk page) which is a fascinating read. It is a GA reviewed as a Wikipedia:Good articles/Social sciences and society.Carlton le Willows Academy is awaiting review.
I was looking at {{GAList}}, and {{GAList2}} to see which dragons you have slain and the remaining problems. 1. Your prose is brilliant. It follows MOS in the required items. 2 a, b yes, 2c no evidence of OR, 2d without using the tools available no plagiarism and the copyvios have gone. 3 broad and tightly focused. 4, 5, 6- NPOV, stable and illustrated. Remove the alumni numbers and resubmit.ClemRutter (talk) 15:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
GA nomination submitted. Thanks for the help in getting the article up to scratch and for all your great suggestions. I definitely think the article has the potential to be even better, but it's nice to know it's (hopefully) good article level now. Those reviews and discussions are tremendously insightful, certainly lots to draw from and consider when improving Elizabeth College. Formulaonewiki (talk) 14:09, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
The image you added today may have been on commons but the license says is that it is restricted to Non-commercial use- that isn't open enough- we can't use it, even going fair use its difficult to argue that it is 'necessary enough'. One step forward-- ...
ClemRutter (talk) 23:13, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
Good spot, I'll remove it to be safe. I'm planning on taking some photos of the school buildings and facilities when I'm back so the article should be plentiful with public domain images. However, it's a shame to be unable to use that image given the historical significance of that moment in both Guernsey and the school's history. As you say, one step forward... Formulaonewiki (talk) 01:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)