Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion

  (Redirected from Wikipedia:CFD)
"WP:CFC" and "WP:CFD" redirect here. For categories for creation, see WP:Articles for creation/Categories. For criteria for deletion, see WP:Criteria for deletion.

Administrator instructions

XFD backlog
V Apr May Jun Jul Aug Total
CfD 0 0 8 181 0 189
TfD 0 0 0 7 0 7
MfD 0 0 0 6 0 6
FfD 2 19 2 14 0 37
AfD 0 0 0 73 0 73

Categories for discussion (CfD) is the central venue for discussing specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories and stub types in accordance with the guidelines for categorization, category naming and stub articles.

For detailed instructions about using CfD, see "How to use CfD" below. Briefly, nominations are handled through one of two processes:

  1. Speedy renaming and merging, for uncontroversial proposals that meet specified criteria—see "Speedy renaming and merging" below.
  2. Full discussion, for all other proposals. Discussions typically remain open at least seven days and are closed once a rough consensus has formed or no objections to the nomination are raised.

Except in uncontroversial cases such as reverting vandalism, do not amend or depopulate a category once it has been nominated at CfD as this hampers other editors' efforts to evaluate a category and participate in the discussion.

When a category is renamed or merged with another category, in limited circumstances it may be helpful to leave an instance of the {{Category redirect|...}} template on the category's former page. See "Redirecting categories" below for more information.

Wikipedia:Move review can be used to contest the outcome of a CfD request that is limited in scope to renaming, as long as all steps are followed. If a discussion on the request closer's talk page does not resolve an issue, then a move review will evaluate the close of a CfD move discussion to determine whether or not the close was reasonable and consistent with the spirit and intent of common practice, policies, and guidelines. CfDs involving deletion should be reviewed at Wikipedia:Deletion review.

ScopeEdit

CfD is intended only for specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories or stub types. For general discussion about how to improve the category system, use other appropriate venues such as Wikipedia talk:Categorization, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories, and any relevant WikiProjects' talk pages.

Current discussionsEdit

Add a new entry


Discussions awaiting closureEdit

XFD backlog
V Apr May Jun Jul Aug Total
CfD 0 0 8 181 0 189
TfD 0 0 0 7 0 7
MfD 0 0 0 6 0 6
FfD 2 19 2 14 0 37
AfD 0 0 0 73 0 73

See also the list of individual discussions awaiting closure here and the list of full open discussions awaiting closure here.


How to use CfDEdit

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Nomination procedureEdit

TwinkleEdit

You may use Twinkle to facilitate CfD nominations. To install Twinkle, go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and check "Twinkle" in the "Browsing" section. Use the now-installed "XfD" (Start a deletion discussion) tab while viewing the page you want to nominate.

Twinkle only allows you to nominate a single category or stub template. For bundled nominations including multiple categories, or if you prefer not to use Twinkle, follow the manual steps below.

Manual nominationsEdit

I
Preliminary steps.

Before nominating a category:

In the following special cases:

For further information, see Wikipedia:Categorization and Wikipedia:Manual of Style.

II
Edit the category.

Add one of the following templates at the beginning of the category page (not the talk page) of every category to be discussed. For nominations involving large numbers of categories, help adding these templates can be requested here.

Otherwise, if nominating a single category:
If nominating a group of related categories, use a bundled nomination:
  • For deleting, use {{subst:cfd|CfD section name}}
  • For merging, use {{subst:cfm|Other category|CfD section name}}
  • For renaming, use {{subst:cfr|Proposed name|CfD section name}}
  • For splitting, use {{subst:cfs|Proposed name 1|Proposed name 2|CfD section name}}
  • For converting the category into a list, {{subst:cfl|Proposed name|CfD section name}}
  • For other options (containerization, etc.), use {{subst:cfd|type=nature of proposed discussion|CfD section name}} (see Template:Cfd/doc#Optional parameter)
Alternatively, leave a message at User talk:DannyS712 requesting that a bot tag the categories for you.
  • Include "CfD", "CfM", "CfR", "CfS" or "CfL" in the edit summary, and do not mark the edit as minor. Preview before saving.
  • To add the template for previous nomination days, use the "full" version of the template by appending "full" to the template name, i.e. {{cfd full}}, {{cfm full}}, {{cfr full}}, {{cfs full}} and {{cfl full}}. Use the |day=, |month= and |year= parameters to make the banner link to the correct CfD page.
  • Consider adding {{subst:cfd notice|Category name|2020 August 6|CfD section name}} ~~~~ to the talk page of the category's creator.
  • For details about these templates, see each template's documentation.
III
Create the CFD section.

Click THIS LINK to edit the section of CfD for today's entries.

Follow the instructions (visible in edit mode) to copy and paste one of the templates below. When inserting category names into these template's parameters, except the text= parameter, omit the Category: prefix and do not use wikilinks, as the template takes care of this.

If nominating a single category:
  • For deleting, use {{subst:cfd2|Obsolete category|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed deletion. ~~~~}}
  • For merging, use {{subst:cfm2|Origin category|Destination category|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed merge. ~~~~}}
  • For renaming, use {{subst:cfr2|Current category|Proposed name|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed rename. ~~~~}}
  • For splitting, use {{subst:cfs2|Current category|Proposed category 1|Proposed category 2|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed split. ~~~~}}
  • For converting the category into a list, use {{subst:cfc2|Current category|Proposed article|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed conversion. ~~~~}}
  • For other options (containerization, etc.), use {{subst:cfd2|Current category|type=other type|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed conversion. ~~~~}}
For a bundled nomination, use one of the standard templates to build the "Cfd section name" for the first nominated category. After saving that, the second and subsequent nominations must be inserted manually, as follows:
==== Cfd section name ====
* 1st category
* 2nd category [Make clear whether you propose deletion, merging or renaming]
* Your reason for nominating the categories, and signature.
  • If a bundled nomination is too long, consider using {{hidden}} to hide some of the nominated categories.
  • In your reason, use links if mentioning articles or categories. To link to a category, use the colon trick by adding a colon (:) to the beginning of the link, e.g. [[:Category:Foo]].
  • Preview before saving to check that your nomination is formatted correctly, and remember to include your signature at the end of the nomination.

Stub typesEdit

I
Preliminary steps.

In general, a stub type consists of a stub template and a dedicated stub category. Before nominating a stub type for deletion, merging or renaming:

  • Read and understand guidance for creating stub types and stub type naming conventions.
  • Review the list of existing stub types—be advised, this list may not be comprehensive.
  • If you wish to:
    • Create a new stub type—follow the procedure for proposing new stub types.
    • Delete, merge or rename a stub category only, without deleting or renaming the associated stub template—follow the instructions above this section.
    • Delete or rename a stub template—continue to section II.
II
Edit the template.

Add one of the following tags at the beginning of the template to be discussed.

  • For deletion, use {{subst:sfd-t|Section name}}
  • For renaming, use {{subst:sfr-t|Proposed name|Section name}}
  • Please include "SFD" or "SFR" in the edit summary, and don't mark the edit as minor. Preview before saving.
  • Consider notifying the template's creator on their talk page. To find the contributor, check the page history of the stub template.
III
Create the CFD section.

Click THIS LINK to edit the section of CfD for today's entries.

Follow the instructions (visible in edit mode) and paste the following text (remember to update the default parameters):

  • For deletion, use {{subst:sfd-t2|TemplateName|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed deletion. ~~~~}}
  • For renaming, use {{subst:sfr-t2|TemplateOldName|TemplateNewName|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed deletion. ~~~~}}
  • In your rationale, mention how many articles currently use the template to help other editors. When linking to a category in your rationale, always add a colon (:) to the beginning of the link, like [[:Category:Foo]]. This makes a category link that can be seen on the page, and avoids putting this page into the category you are nominating.
  • Preview before saving to check that your nomination is formatted correctly, and remember to include your signature at the end of the nomination.

Notifying interested projects and editorsEdit

In addition to the steps listed above, you may choose to invite participation by editors who are likely to be informed about a nominated category. All such efforts must comply with Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing. In addition, to help make your messages about the CfD discussion clear, avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations, link to relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the discussion itself.

Notifying related WikiProjects

WikiProjects consist of groups of editors who are interested in a particular subject. If a nominated category is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, consider adding a brief, neutral note on their talk page(s) about the nomination. You may use {{subst:cfd-notify|Category name|2020 August 6|CfD section name}} ~~~~ or write a personalized message.

Tagging the nominated category's talk page with a relevant WikiProject's banner will include the category in that WikiProject's Article Alerts if they subscribe to the system. For instance, tagging a nominated category with {{WikiProject Physics}} will add the discussion to Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts.

Notifying substantial contributors to the category

While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and main contributors of the category that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, check the category's page history or talk page. You may use {{Cfd notice}} to inform the category's creator and all other editors.

Notifying other interested editors

It may be helpful to invite other subject-matter experts by posting a message on the talk page of the most closely related article, such as Protein family for Category:Protein families. You may use {{Cfdnotice}} for this.

Closing procedureEdit

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After seven days, someone will close the discussion according to the consensus that formed or, if needed, relist it to allow more discussion. Editors closing discussions must follow the administrator instructions and, except in the case of a "keep" or "no consensus" outcome, implement the result or log it at the Working page to ensure it is implemented.

Redirecting categoriesEdit

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"WP:CAT-R" redirects here. For the guideline on categorizing redirects, see Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects.
For an essay on this topic, see WP:Category redirects that should be kept.

In general, an unpopulated category should be deleted (see speedy deletion criterion C1) because it is not useful for navigation and sorting. In limited circumstances, and because categories cannot be redirected using "hard" redirects (i.e. #REDIRECT[[''target'']]), we use a form of "soft redirect" to solve the issue. You can "create" a category redirect by adding {{Category redirect|target}} to the category page. Bots patrol these categories and move articles into the "redirect" targets.

In particular, category redirects are used at the former category name when we convert hyphens into en dashes (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations). It is also helpful to set up category redirects from titles with plain letters (i.e. characters on a standard keyboard) where the category names include diacritics.

A list of redirected categories is available at Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories.

Speedy renaming and merging

"WP:CFDS" redirects here. For the criteria for speedy deletion, see WP:CFSD.
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Speedy renaming or speedy merging of categories may be requested only if they meet a speedy criterion, for example WP:C2D (consistency with main article's name) or WP:C2C (consistency with established category tree names). Please see instructions below.

  1. Determine which speedy criterion applies
  2. Tag category with {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}}
  3. List request along with speedy criteria reason under "Current requests" below on this page

Please note that a speedy request must state which of the narrowly defined criteria strictly applies. Hence, any other non-speedy criteria, even "common sense" or "obvious", may be suitable points but only at a full discussion at WP:Categories for discussion.

Request may take 48 hours to process after listing if there are no objections. This delay allows other users to review the request to ensure that it meets the speedy criteria for speedy renaming or merging, and to raise objections to the proposed change.

Categories that qualify for speedy deletion (per Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion, e.g. "patent nonsense", "recreation") can be tagged with the regular speedy tags, such as {{db|reason}} with no required delay. Empty categories can be deleted if they remain empty 7 days after tagging with {{db-empty}}. Renaming under C2E can also be processed instantly as it is a variation on G7.

To oppose a speedy request you must record your objection within 48 hours of the nomination. Do this by inserting immediately under the nomination:

  • Oppose, (the reasons for your objection). ~~~~

You will not be able to do this by editing the page WP:Categories for discussion. Instead you should edit the section WP:Categories for discussion#Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here or the page WP:Categories for discussion/Speedy#Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here (WP:CFDS). Be aware that in the course of any discussion, the nomination and its discussion may get moved further down the page purely for organizational convenience – you may need to search WP:CFDS to find the new location. Participate in any ongoing discussion but, unless you withdraw your opposition, a knowledgeable person may eventually bring forward the nomination and discussion to become a regular CFD discussion. At that stage you may add further comments but your initial opposition will still be considered. However, if after seven days there has been no support for the request, and no response from the nominator, the request may be dropped from further consideration as a speedy.

Contested speedy requests become stale, and can be un-tagged and de-listed after 7 days of inactivity. Optionally, if the discussion may be useful for future reference, it may be copied to the category talk page, with a section heading and {{moved discussion from|[[WP:CFDS]]|2=~~~~}}. If the nominator wants to revive the process, this may be requested at WP:Categories for discussion (CfD) in accordance with its instructions.

If you belatedly notice and want to oppose a speedy move that has already been processed, contact one of the admins who process the Speedy page. If your objection seems valid, they may reverse the move, or start a full CFD discussion.

Speedy criteriaEdit

The category-specific criteria for speedy renaming, or merging are strictly limited to:

C2A: Typographic and spelling fixesEdit

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  • Correction of spelling errors and capitalization fixes. Differences between British and American spelling (e.g. Harbours → Harbors) are not considered errors; however if the convention of the relevant category tree is to use one form over the other then a rename may be appropriate under C2C. If both spellings exist as otherwise-identical category names, they should be merged.
  • Appropriate conversion of hyphens into en dashes or vice versa (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations).

C2B: Consistency with established Wikipedia naming conventions and practicesEdit

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C2C: Consistency with established category tree namesEdit

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Bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree, or into line with the various "x by y", "x of y", or "x in y" categorization conventions specified at Wikipedia:Category names

  • This should be used only where there is no room for doubt that the category in question is being used for the standard purpose instead of being a potential subcategory.
  • This criterion should be applied only when there is no ambiguity or doubt over the existence of a category naming convention. Such a convention must be well defined and must be overwhelmingly used within the tree. If this is not the case then the category in question must be brought forward to a full Cfd nomination.
  • This criterion will not apply in cases where the category tree observes distinctions in local usage (e.g. Category:Transportation in the United States and Category:Transport in the United Kingdom).

C2D: Consistency with main article's nameEdit

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  • Renaming a topic category to match its eponymous page (e.g. Category:The Beatles and The Beatles).
  • This applies only if the related page's current name (and by extension, the proposed name for the category) is:
    • unambiguous (so it generally does not apply to proposals to remove a disambiguator from the category name, even when the main article is the primary topic of its name, i.e. it does not contain a disambiguator); and
    • uncontroversial, either because of longstanding stability at that particular name, or because the page was just moved (i) after a page move discussion resulted in explicit consensus to rename, or (ii) unilaterally to reflect an official renaming which is verified by one or more citations (provided in the nomination). C2D does not apply if there is any ongoing discussion about the name of the page or category, or there has been a recent discussion concerning any of the pages that resulted in a no consensus result, or it is controversial in some other way.
  • This criterion may also be used to rename a set category in the same circumstances, where the set is defined by a renamed topic; e.g. players for a sports team, or places in a district.
  • This criterion is also used to add a disambiguator to a category name, even when the main article is not the primary topic of its name, but no other topics are likely to have an eponymous category

C2E: Author requestEdit

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  • This criterion applies only if the author of a category requests or agrees to renaming within six months of creating the category.
  • The criterion does not apply if other editors have populated or changed the category since it was created. "Other editors" includes bots that populated the category, but excludes an editor working with the author on the renaming.

C2F: One eponymous articleEdit

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  • This criterion applies if the category contains only an eponymous article or media file, provided that the category has not otherwise been emptied shortly before the nomination. The default outcome is an upmerge to the parent categories, where applicable. Nominations should use {{subst:cfm-speedy}} (speedy merger) linking to a suitable parent category, or to another appropriate category (e.g. one that is currently on the article).

Admin instructionsEdit

When handling the listings:

  1. Make sure that the listing meets one of the above criteria.
  2. With the exception of C2E, make sure that it was both listed and tagged at least 48 hours previously.
  3. Make sure that there is no opposition to the listing; if there is a discussion, check if the opposing user(s) ended up withdrawing their opposition.

If the listing meets these criteria, simply have the category renamed or merged – follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Administrator instructions, in the section "If the decision is to Rename, Merge, or Delete"; to list it for the bots, use the Speedy moves section.

Applying speedy criteria in full discussionsEdit

  • A nomination to merge or rename, brought forward as a full CfD, may be speedily closed if the closing administrator is satisfied that:
    • The nomination clearly falls within the scope of one of the criteria listed here, and
    • No objections have been made within 48 hours of the initial nomination.
  • If both these conditions are satisfied, the closure will be regarded as having been as a result of a speedy nomination. If any objections have been raised then the CfD nomination will remain in place for the usual 7-day discussion period, to be decided in accordance with expressed consensus.

Add requests for speedy renaming and merging hereEdit

If the category and desired change do not match one of the criteria mentioned in C2, do not list it here. Instead, list it in the main CFD section.

If you are in any doubt as to whether it qualifies, do not list it here.

Use the following format on a new line at the beginning of the list: 

* [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~

(The four ~ will sign and datestamp the entry automatically.) If the current name should be redirected rather than deleted, use: 

*REDIRECT [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~

Remember to tag the category with: {{subst:Cfr-speedy|New name}}

A request may be completed if it is more than 48 hours old; that is, if the time stamp shown is earlier than 09:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC). Currently, there are 646 open requests (refresh).

Current requestsEdit

112 more year/decade "Yugoslavian sport"/"Yugoslavian women's sport" categories
83 "Yugolavian" subcats of Category:Seasons in Yugoslav football
@BrownHairedGirl: If Yugoslavia ceased to exist in 1992, then why are there categories after that date? Armbrust The Homunculus 12:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
@Armbrust, presumably because Serbia and Montenegro continued to use that name after the breakup: see Yugoslavia#New_states. The rights and wrongs of that are complex, and en.wp faces complex choices between jure and de facto terminology. Maybe there is a case for a full discussion somewhere on what terminology to use on the en.wp categories for 1992–2003.Mybe such discussions have already happened?
However, while these categories do exist and do refer to Yugoslavia, they should use the correct adjective ... so please can these speedy renames proceed without prejudice to any renaming? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:14, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm fine with it. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:17, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Opposed requestsEdit

Oppose for the moment, I have just put up the recent move of article up for discussion. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
On further investigation the move was made by a blocked editor (for moving articles) and I have reverted the article move. The article is now back at Arnthor Birgisson. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:59, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Category:Xbox (4th generation) games to Category:Xbox Series X games – We now know the name of the 4th generation XBOX game console, so need to use it. Dream Focus 17:27, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
    • Oppose There is strong industry rumors there will be another 4th Gen xbox console to be announced soon (August is the rumored date). The games that have been announced on the XSX will also work on this console. (That's why there's the whole "Optimzed for Series X" branding). What the naming will be of the whole line of the 4th gen is yet clear, and if we change it now , we'll likely have to change it again.--Masem (t) 17:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
      • So we have Xbox Series X and List of Xbox Series X games but the category for these is named something else. Consistency is important. Also the official website for it calls it this already. https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-x/ So does the news media covering it. This is the official name. As for these "rumors", since when does Wikipedia go on such things? Seems ridiculous they'd announce one thing and not the other if there was more than one thing. And why release two consoles at once? If its just two versions of the same console, which has happened before, then it will have the same name. Dream Focus 15:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
        • Microsoft has stated there will be additional consoles alongside the Xbox Series X that are part of this same hardware set per [2], its why the "Xbox (4th generation)" name was picked because microsoft said the name for this generation of Xbox was just "Xbox". That's why renaming this category doesn't make sense. --Masem (t) 15:35, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
    • Oppose per Masem. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
    • Oppose Per Masem, and discussion is on going at WT:VG. Seems clear that a speedy change here is inappropriate. -- ferret (talk) 15:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Oppose – Should follow the same naming as the existing category tree. RGloucester — ☎ 14:03, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Category:Live Streaming software to Category:Live streaming software – C2A. M.Clay1 (talk) 13:03, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
    Oppose I don’t see why this category redirect needs to be moved. Just create another at the proposed target. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:40, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
    The current title does have some history (as being a separate category briefly) so I'd agree with the move. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:47, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
    The current title has incorrect capitalisation and so does not need to exist after the correct name is created. It is a "redirect with possibilities" and has history, so it's better to do it this way than make a new page and delete the old one. M.Clay1 (talk) 07:56, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
    Oppose. I agree with Armbrust. I see no need to preserve the history of a page which has been a category redirect for 4 years, and was a full category for only 5 days. Memorialising every error in metadata pages is absurd. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:04, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
    That's kind of irrelevant though. The current title needs deleting and the new one needs creating. Either it's done as a move or done as a new page and a deletion request. May as well do it this way. There's no reason not to. M.Clay1 (talk) 11:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
    No need to bring this to a process. Just create the new one, and move on. The miscapitalised one is harmless. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
    As mentioned in Wikipedia:Category redirects that should be kept, we generally don't keep incorrect category redirects. They're not helpful and just allow the possibility of someone using them incorrectly. Regardless, it is at this process now, and discussing whether or not this is a waste of time is the thing that is wasting time. M.Clay1 (talk) 00:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
On hold pending other discussionEdit
  • Category:North Macedonian politicians to Category:Macedonian politicians. - WP:C2B. There's a naming convention in place which clearly establishes 'Macedonian' as the term for nationality. The policy was based on a wide consensus established by a RfC. A recent local consensus - [3] was obviously not aware of this and changed the name of the category. --FlavrSavr (talk) 16:45, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
    Oppose speedy @FlavrSavr: firstly, the category was moved through full CfD discussion, which closed today, so you could contact the closer and ask them to reconsider their close. Secondly Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Macedonia) says "Article names, categories, and templates should avoid adjectival use altogether. The use of neutral formulations such as "of North Macedonia", "in North Macedonia," etc. is preferred", which suggests a move to Category:Politicians of North Macedonia. Category:North Macedonian politicians by party should be nominated as well. Also, the category has not been tagged for speedy renaming. TSventon (talk) 17:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
    @TSventon: Thanks. So I should contact bibliomaniac15? BTW, that particular sentence has been hotly contested even post formulation of the policy. The 'nationality' part wasn't. --FlavrSavr (talk) 18:05, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
    @FlavrSavr: yes, see the lead of Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. I would suggest that the discussions should have considered WP:NCMAC, but it seems that they didn't. TSventon (talk) 18:45, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
    @TSventon: That's really helpful, thanks. For the sake of formality I did tag the category as CFDS after your comment, but this will probably warrant re-opening the discussion or a new full CfD. I do agree that WP:NCMAC should be the basis of the discussed move. --FlavrSavr (talk) 18:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
    @FlavrSavr: it is correct to tag the category: the tag will be removed when the speedy process is concluded. The nomination can be moved to the "Moved to full discussion" section if a full discussion is (re)started and the category will also need a full CfD tag. TSventon (talk) 19:16, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
    The CFD decision seems perverse. The category tree is Category:Macedonian people, and this seems to be the only exception to the "Macdenian fooers" convention of its subcats. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
    Agreed. While WP:NCMAC tried very hard to address the somewhat mixed results of the RfC on the adjectival usage of the country, it is pretty specific about the people (namely: nationality) of that country. I'm surprised that somebody actually brought the issue up, let alone managed to successfully go through a full CFD decision. Let's see what the move review will bring about. --FlavrSavr (talk) 00:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Moved to full discussionEdit
@Marcocapelle: "Vetus Latina" is definetly more precise than "Old Latin". Those articles relate to manuscripts of the Vetus Latina, not any Latin manuscripts of old times. Veverve (talk) 20:10, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Marcocapelle: "Vetus Latina" designates the translations made from the Septuagint and the New Testament into Latin, mainly before the 4th century; see its article. The Vulgate is the 4th-century translations in Latin of the Hebrew Old Testament, the New Testament, and of some books from the Septuagint; those translations were mainly done by Jerome. Therefore, it is needed to distinguish between the Vetus Latina (a specific set of translations), the Vulgate (another set of specific translations), and other Latin manuscripts, and this is one of the the purposes of my renaming proposal. Veverve (talk) 23:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
  • The distinction with Vulgate will still exist with Vulgate as a subcat of Latin. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I add that the category is currently called "Old Latin" because "Old Latin" translates "Vetus Latina". You can check for yourself: all the manuscripts within this category are Vetus Latina texts. Veverve (talk) 23:59, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Marcocapelle: the confusion also stems from the fact "Vetus Latina" is the common name for those translations, whereas "Old Latin" is condusing. Moreover, there would be no point in putting all the Vetus Latin New Testament manuscript in a new, broader, less precise category. Veverve (talk) 11:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
  1. purge this category of show that are not series
  2. rename all the other subcats of Category:Television series by country and genre to use "shows".
But I don't see the case for making British programming an exception. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
There shouldn't be an exception for Britain. However, articles properly categorised as programmes/programs/shows (in any country) shouldn't be improperly re-categorised as series. Another (hypothetical) suggestion: remove Category:British television programmes by genre from Category:Television series by country and genre which is, I think, the source of the problem. I now see Category:Television shows is (temporarily?) chaotic. Thincat (talk) 11:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
@Thincat, excluding Brits shows from Category:Television series by country and genre is no solution. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:21, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Your option (1) would involve a great deal of work. Some subcats contain mostly one-offs (Category:British television documentaries) other subcats contain mostly series (or entirely if the subcat naming is correct). (2) would seem to me preferable but not as a speedy because the situation has not been clear. Thincat (talk) 08:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Category:Razakar to Category:Razakar (Pakistan) – C2D: per head article Razakar (Pakistan). The bare title Razakar is about the concept (an Arabic word which means volunteer), but Razakar (Pakistan) is a specific force which operated in East Pakistan. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:27, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
    • @BrownHairedGirl: I believe this should be Category:Razakars (Pakistan). – Fayenatic London 09:34, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
      • @Fayenatic, the category currently structured as a topic category, so no plural needed. Maybe it should become a combined set/topic category? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:55, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
        • Not sure I understand this re WP:TOPICCAT. In what way is it "structured as a topic category", other than its name being singular rather than plural? How would it "become" a combined one – simply by renaming as I have suggested? – Fayenatic London 12:42, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
          • Fayenatic: It's set up as a WP:TOPICCAT for the organisation called Razakar (Pakistan). If it was a set category, it would have people categories as patents. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:55, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
            • Ah, I see – thank you. But I disagree that the organisation was called Razakar (Pakistan), even though that is its main article; in the article, the organisation is referred to either as "Razakars" or as "Razakar force". Moreover, I think the category is already functioning also as a set category. (I would probably move the article as well.) – Fayenatic London 13:00, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
              • @Fayenatic, I have moved this to the opposed section, because I think it has moved beyond the type of straightforward issue which can be handled as a speedy, so we need a full discussion to consider it. I'll leave it you make that full nomination, so that you can make the nominator's case upfront. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:46, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Nomination has been split in two parts: (dis)establishments categories by year are now on full CFD. The other categories as listed in this section may follow later, dependent on the outcome of the full discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
  • 2nd full discussion here. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:59, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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