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Given the results from powers of tau in the trusted setup ceremony ; the verifying and the proving key, how can I find the point [f] resulting from the trusted setup in Groth16 ?
For each circuits, Groth16 requires to compute a point f such as f=s×G. While revealing the scalar s used for computing f would allow to produce fake proofs, f can be exposed to the public.
Sorry, the f point I was talking about is defined here. The full definition is the scientific paper from Jens Groth, but that’s little use to find where do I get the information from a compiled Groth16 circuit program written in the circom1 language (I’m meaning getting the info from the generated files) 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:6867:6FFB:B9F6:EFF9 (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am afraid that only someone familiar with the operation of the compiler will be able to answer the question. You could have two compilers that both work fine but store the information differently. If the information can be retrieved from the generated files, it could be anywhere, depending on what the creators of the compiler thought would be a good way. --Lambiam17:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The compiler generetes a proving key and verifying key and .params bloat for veryfying the result of the trusted setup ceremony (no backdoors).
Groth16 is an algorithm independant of any compilers. In fact, the Zcash circuit was handwritten by mathematicians. Compilers are for automatically converting programs into polynomials qap.
I assumed the information would be encoded somewhere in the compiled Groth16 circuit program, not necessarily in a compiler-independent way. Also, while the mathematical algorithm is (obviously) independent of any compilers, it can presumably be implemented by programs that are not necessarily identical.
The link is not particularly helpful. We learn that [f] stands for an elliptic curve point in G1, but after this disclosure there is no mention whatsoever of how [f] plays a role in whatever. The original Groth16 paper does not mention [f] at all. Since you refer to it as "the target point", a term not used in either source, you apparently have another source of information. --Lambiam13:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That s what I was thinking (same thing as you). Looks loke the point appears under a different name in the paper.
This is what I referred to above as "The original Groth16 paper". It does not mention [f].
Suppose for a minute you succeed in figuring out how to find [f]. What good would this do? What could you use your knowledge of [f] for and how, precisely, could you use it? --Lambiam12:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since it’s not on the paper, it’s referred on the paper under an other name : there’s several blog talking about it under an other name.
I'm going to use examples from Wikipedia itself, but this is not a question about how Wikipedia works - instead, I'm asking about IPv6. At WP:AIV, there's an automatic option to shorten an IPv6 to just 64 bits (16 characters), followed by two colons "::" and then "/64".
Normally, it seems that despite removing detail, all the edits from that shortened IP are from the same person. Is this always true, and if so, what's the purpose of these extra characters at the end? Cheers. LucasR muteacc (talk) 05:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They may be from the same person but from different IP addresses. They may also be from different persons. For example, I see no reason to think that all contributions from the range 2001:8A0:FA6F:1600::/64 are from the same person; all that is certain is that they share their ISP. Edits may be from different users even when from exactly the same IP address. --Lambiam10:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "A:B:...:D::/N" notation denotes a range of IPv6 addresses, specifically the addresses who first N bits in hexadecimal are AB...D. (A base-10 example might be if, for numbers between 0 and 999999, 17::/2 represented the range of all numbers who first 2 digits are 17, or the numbers 170000 to 179999. That's numbers; in general since it uses binary a /N IPv6 range will contain addresses.)
Meanwhile, the reason those addresses are commonly shortened is because Internet Service Providers will usually grant customers a range of IPv6 addresses instead of a single one. E.g. I could be granted a /67 range of addresses, meaning my IP address could shift to any IP address beginning with some preset 67 bits; that then in theory gives me addresses I could come from, or about 2 quintillion. But
the first 67 bits will be constant (unless the ISP gives me a new range); and
(I'm not 100% certain about this but I think) it's doubtful I'm using all 2 quintillion addresses at the same time, so the ISP could also quietly take part of the range I'm not currently using and give it to someone else who's in need of a range.
That's how you can end up with /64 ranges generally corresponding to individual people, but also multiple people possibly falling under the same range. But regardless, a person's full IPv6 address (at that moment) will still always be the entire 128-bit (16-character) string. 2603:8001:4542:28FB:69D8:B1B6:9002:A492 (talk) 15:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)(Send talk messages here)[reply]
What do people think is the best AI detector? I frequently use gptzero.me, but zerogpt.com gives me different values. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 15:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some comparisons: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. Originality.ai is on all lists and the most often at the top. It is not free (but you can test it for free). Here is a comparison of 10 free AI content detectors. --Lambiam21:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As far I understand it correctly, GF(Integer) is used to declare a finite field which can for example be used for declaring an elliptic curve (this is what I want to do).
But why using a very large composite number (2 or 3 thousands bits long) seems to take too much time to feasible ? How to declare a dummy elliptic curve without using GF() ? 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:9CB:33F3:E8EB:8A5D (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It appears you are referring to order or prime power, such as the 5 when using "GF(5)". If that is less than 2^16, it uses the C++ library which is efficient and fast. If it is larger than that, it uses an internal representation of polynomials over smaller fields, which is much slower. Perhaps that is what you are witnessing. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 14:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, when I run this program, two things happen I don't want to happen. If I'm on just "Float" on the mode, all numbers goes to three digits (ie 3.829 for a 15% tip on 25.53). Also the last number runs 4 digits, so it's breaking onto the "Done" line. I'm aware if I change Float to 2 in the "Mode" menu, this solves both problems. However, it is tedious to change this back and forth just to run this program. I asked ChatGPT and it told me to use "toString(int", but this isn't available on the TI 84 Plus Silver Edition. Any help? Therapyisgood (talk) 13:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ChatGPT was way off, the TI-84 Plus Silver Edition does have a round function and I was able to find and use it, thank you. I implemented it and it works. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm about to upgrade from an AMD GPU to an NVIDIA one, not for gaming, but for the sake of AI ML and video editing. Will there be any driver issues (including with DirectML, GPUOpen, or OpenCL), so that I'll need to de-install those? 2003:DA:CF11:CF56:691A:42A:6552:8061 (talk) 19:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My procedure for systems running Windows is to 1. uninstall the GPU drivers normally through the windows control panel (or settings app), then 2. run Display Driver Uninstaller (DDU) to remove leftover bits and traces of the old GPU drivers before changing out the graphics card for a different model, especially if it's one from another brand. DDU works best if you run it while Windows is in safe mode. There's multiple ways to enter safe mode in Windows 10 but probably the easiest way to do it is going through the "advanced startup" menu accessed by clicking "Restart" in the start menu while holding down the shift key - see here for full instructions on that. — AP 499D25(talk)06:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to GPUOpen, it's a partially open-source middleware competitor to Nvidia GameWorks (proprietary and closed) and I would be prepared for changes. Do you rely on GPUOpen for some specific functionality? Does GameWorks claim to do the same thing? There may be work-arounds. Similarly, OpenCL (I'm not familiar with it) is an open standard maintained by both AMD and Nivida, among others in the Khronos Group. It seems at a quick glance that each manufacturer provides its own implementation. If you have been using OpenCL with AMD's implementation you may need to review Nvidia's offering to see what is possible: varying levels of compatibility with the latest standards are implemented with driver releases from individual manufacturers, for specific bits of hardware (see OpenCL#Vendor implementations). MinorProphet (talk) 17:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The DirectML (aka Direct3D) API is part of DirectX. Although my brain exploded while trying to make sense of it all, there should be few problems for you (hah!) since this is M$'s own API, and individual manufacturers should interface with it correctly... MinorProphet (talk) 16:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the light of recent outages, I would back up my entire current boot drive with a disc-to-disc copy before making any changes, just in case everything went pear-shaped. MinorProphet (talk) 12:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is a differential equation an equation that relates one or more unknown functions and their derivatives? Newton listed 3 types of DEs with the third one being partial derivatives. "Visualization of the heat transfer in a pump casing created by solving the heat equation." SU2CAfrazer123 (talk) 21:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I recently bought 2 Intel processors (I couldn't resist, as they look so similar to the famous Intel 4004), but I don't know what the purpose could be. Looking at the ceramic package, I can imagine that the product was created maybe between 1972 and 1975. Maybe someone can give a hint?
I hunted around for some time, but drew a big blank other than similar chips offered on Ebay with no further description, and the pics on Commons. Is it even a CPU in the accepted sense? I could find absolutely no clues. MinorProphet (talk) 17:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Several aeons ago (i.e. perhaps 15 years back), I reckon that yer average search engine would have served up at least ten sites hosting the exact information you seek. I remember realising with utter clarity one day how all my finely-honed search query results seemed to have changed almost overnight: and not for the better. Sadly, this has now become the New World Algorithm™ (available in taupe only, except for our special merch recipients—you know who you are.) All changed, changed utterly. Subscribe! Why not sign up for our weekly podcast, where influencers with the intellectual capacity of a piece of seaweed will babble shit for half an hour! I bet at least some of the sites are still there, (sort of, I'm not a betting man), but if there are any left, they are now not worthy of the search engine's notice, since not easily monetizable. I suspect that the old G**gle search engine is no longer available, even on the Wayback Machine. Is this the case? I think we should be told. </rant> MinorProphet (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the answers. I asked in another forum. One said that it might be DRAM chips. Probably certainly not a microprocessor. :) But it's a big problem when information about historical computer hardware disappears --PantheraLeo1359531 (talk) 14:46, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
University IP address blocked from editing, but something is weird
Just earlier today, while I was at university, I stumbled upon a "This IP address is blocked from editing Wikipedia" banner when I clicked on the edit button of a Wikipedia article to check out some source code. I was like fine, there are thousands of users on this network and so quite inevitable someone's gonna do something bad leading to IP addresses / ranges being blocked from editing. All until I spotted something very odd regarding the IP range that is blocked, compared to the current IP address.
It said, the blocked IP address or range is 122.56.x.x/20, but then it also said, your current IP address is 202.36.x.x. I know quite a bit about subnets and how IPv4 addresses are divided up, so something just didn't seem right to me here! On a /16 to /23 IPv4 range, the left two groups of digits never change. 202.36.x.x is obviously not part of 122.56.x.x/20. I was thinking, how is this possible?!?
If I clicked on the "Talk" or "Contributions" buttons in the upper-right corner, indeed I would get the 202.36.x.x IP address and not one in the 122.56.x.x/20 range. Looking at the IP's contributions, there were like only a dozen or so edits, quite a few from 2019, but absolutely no edits from 2020-2023, and one edit in 2024. The talk page had this shared IP address banner at the top saying that it is registered to the University of Auckland.
According to WHOIS info, the 122.56.x.x/20 subnet is registered to a well-known large ISP for educational institutions here in New Zealand, and the 202.36.x.x IP address is registered under the name of the university itself, with even stuff like the building location address being of the university.
My guess is that the 202.36.* network is actually the university's own "private ISP" kind of network, used for communication between the different campus buildings, while the 122.56.* network is the public ISP that the university network is connected to and is using for internet.
Does anyone else know what's going on here? Man, this issue definitely explains a lot of those IP address unblock requests where the user claims that their IP address is never blocked but they are somehow unable to edit, getting a blocked from editing message. — AP 499D25(talk)10:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's probably going to be 122.56.192.0/20 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)), though I don't think the specific network is particularly relevant. There seems to be two questions here. The first is why you are using two different networks. 122.56.x is a Spark network. In my experience, as well as schools, Spark deals a lot with mobile Internet (wifi, 5G, and so on), and I would guess that may be a factor. I also read in an undated article that Spark is helping 'upgrade' the university's networks. Being two local behemoths they're probably best buddies and all entangled anyway. This type of network splitting seems quite common to me, though whether the difference is explained by device, access point, content filtering, other routing considerations, or something more arbitrary, is beyond me. The university does use its own network for at least some Internet stuff - you can see it regularly edits Wikipedia.
The second and more interesting question, if I'm reading the original post correctly, is why a single block message is showing a different current address to the blocked address. Maybe there's some XFF weirdness, a badly coded template, or just a bug somewhere. I seem to vaguely recall autoblocks and cookie blocks being accused of causing this behaviour, but it seems unlikely, and you should get a different message. Someone over at WP:VPT might have some details. I'd suggest we need to see the block message (with obfuscated IPs if you prefer), if this applies. -- zzuuzz(talk)14:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I occasionally have a similar experience, in which my talk page and contribution record show one IP, but when I press "publish" on an edit I get a block notice specifying another IP address. Two examples: I composed an edit under IP 92.8.218.114 but got a block notice on pressing "publish" for 92.8.218.47. I later composed an edit under IP 91.216.246.45, but on pressing "publish" got a block notice for 85.115.54.202, which is a different network. 79.78.116.149 (talk) 11:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At home, the public IP address that appears in my router's info page is different to what I would get when going to one of those "What's my IP?" websites. I found out that my ISP actually uses CGNAT to get around IPv4 address exhaustion (learnt the hard way after hours of trying to port forward a game server to no avail). Though strangely, with my previous ISP, some other public IP finder websites would show a slightly different address, within the same subnet or neighbouring one. One thing for certain is the public IP that appears on my router page is never what I get or see on internet websites though. — AP 499D25(talk)12:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both of you are correct in that the blocked subnet that would appear on the blocked IP address banner was this one (blocked for several years by User:Ohnoitsjamie).
Here's the contribs page for the IP that wasn't blocked btw.
Though to add on to the strangeness, the day after I made this post, when I got back there and tried out the edit button again (on the same Wi-Fi network, using the same laptop, in the same building location), that time it didn't say my IP was blocked, and I seemed to be able to edit! I checked the IP address signature in talk page message previews and the address I would see was the non-blocked one.
Can't remember, if you're subject to an autoblock, does this get mentioned in the message? Autoblocks came to mind for me too, and I thought of the following pathway: (1) First range gets blocked. (2) This person, or someone else, tries to edit with it, and is subjected to the block. (3) Using the same computer, the person moves to the second range and is autoblocked. (4) You use the second range and are autoblocked. Nyttend (talk) 23:15, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nyttend Last week an admin actually showed me this page, where you can see the various forms of system block messages that can be presented to users, and it includes MediaWiki:Autoblockedtext, which explicitly states in the top that "this account has been automatically blocked from editing". I swear the text on the top was just "This IP address is blocked from editing Wikipedia", the same as what I get on my home public IP address which is actually also blocked from editing after an ANEW report I filed because of some other user edit warring on it. I stand by my saying that "automatically blocked" wasn't mentioned anywhere in the block message banner. — AP 499D25(talk)09:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am trying to find documentation on the "plan" keyword in Oracle. I am not looking for "explain plan." That is completely different. What I am looking for is the plan keyword in this context:
select a.id
from a, b
plan a
where a.date between begindate and enddate
I have two different Oracle documentation books in PDF. In both if I search for pages with "plan" that do not have "explain", I come up with zero results. Searching the web, I only find explain plan, which has nothing to do with that as far as I can see. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 20:04, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you tell us where you saw that code and what version of the software it was designed for? When I tried it, the word "plan" was interpreted as an alias for the table b reference, and the following "a" was considered a syntax error. Here is a fiddle. -- Tom Ntalk/contrib00:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is used extensively in samples of code for a slide deck for Oracle Health EHR. Nearly every snippet of code has that syntax. I avoided using the actual table names because every slide has a huge "Propietary: Do Not Distribute" watermark on it, but I don't think the table names make a difference. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 11:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm curious as to what exactly caused the current CrowdStrike outage. According to this article,[6] the root cause is a single file located in C:\Windows\System32\drivers\CrowdStrike\
and is named C-00000291*.sys. Even though it ends with the sys extension, it is not a kernel driver. I don't have CrowdStrike on my PC and I'm just wondering if this file is a text file, and if so, has anyone compared the broken version with the fixed version and figured out the delta? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, this is the Computing ref desk of Wikipedia, we hold ourselves aloof from such minor niggles as the proximate cause of bringing down half the world's IT systems because some CrowdShite CrowdStrike techie couldn't be arsed to check whether their patch worked before releasing it into the wild (and consequently half-asleep IT teams across the globe). It's a channel .sys file to update the Falcon Sensor software, not an AV update, which seems to have caused a page fault, try The Register at e.g.[7] It will be a BitLocker problem for many, since Win 10 removed the ability to boot directly into Safe Mode. Where are your 48-digit recovery keys?[8] On-prem, I hope, in a locked safe, to which there are two keys, since one has gone on holiday with the IT department's boss. MinorProphet (talk) 16:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently the error was not in the patch itself. A logic error in an existing driver, CrowdStrike’s Endpoint Detection and Response (EDR) driver, running in kernel mode, had until recently gone unnoticed. It was triggered when parsing the content of the patched file, a configuration file. (For more detail, see [10], but the reporting on where the logic error was is a bit confused.) --Lambiam21:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were at least two procedural problems involved, in addition to the code error. The first procedural error was by CrowdStrike. The second procedural error was by the user community, with assistance by Microsoft. The error by CrowdStrike was inadequate pre-deployment testing. They should have had a small number of target systems on site running applications that resembled some of the operation-critical applications of their customer base. They should have deployed the patch to the target systems, and verified that the target systems came up cleanly. Obviously, they did not do that. They had some sort of system testing prior to deployment, but not a simulation of actual deployment to target systems.
Second, if I unplug my desktop computer from the UPS, and then plug it back in, it comes up to a blue screen that is not exactly a blue screen of death. I will call it a blue screen of birth. It says that Windows did not load properly the last time. It really means that Windows did not shut down properly, but that is a minor detail. It then gives me the option of restarting my PC normally, or of various options. Either the customers didn't have a USB drive or CD-ROM to boot from, or the startup sequence had been altered to make it more automatic to assume a normal restart. Something was wrong with the restart procedures of the customer base. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:47, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CrowdStrike has issued a "Preliminary Post Incident Review". According to this report, it was a bit more complicated (and, in my eyes, looking even worse for the company) than the story I linked to before. It was the result of four failures coming together. (1) an instance of an "InterProcessCommunication Template" was deployed whose content was invalid. This file was not itself a program, but contained data that was meant to be used to detect a certain attack. (2) The file was validated before deployment by an automatic process. The validating program contained a logic error, because of which it failed to detect that the content of the template instance was not valid. (3) As noted above by Robert McClenon, the deployment process of the company did not include a preliminary live test of the effect of deploying the file in a controlled environment, which would have made the issue manifest before worldwide deployment. This is strange; such live tests are standard across the industry. Omitting it and relying instead on static content validation for something so safety critical and meant to be used in kernel mode is indefensible. (4) The program interpreting the content did not itself attempt to validate the content independently. This is the most forgivable part; unless also developed independently it would likely have suffered from the same error as the validator of point 2. But as a result of interpreting the invalid content it executed an out-of-bounds memory read triggering an exception while in kernel mode, resulting unavoidably in the blue screen of death. This is hard to forgive; the interpreter should have been hardened to do a bounds check before performing a potential out-of-bounds operation. --Lambiam18:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article "The months and days before and after CrowdStrike's fatal Friday" is subtitled "In the short term, they're going to have to do a lot of groveling". Understatement or what, especially since the CEO of CrowdStrike was the CEO of McAfee when an update borked millions of of PCs worldwide in 2010. Useless managers? They self-promote themselves upstairs. The update was only in operation for 78 minutes, there were many more millions of PCs which escaped. Plenty of links within the article for b/g info, and the comments are fairly negatory and forceful. As I understand it, M$ was forced to allow kernel access to 3rd-party suppliers since it couldn't be trusted to keep tabs on the security of the monopoly of its own OS. 'Page fault in nonpaged area' (0x50) has existed as a concept since bounds-checking was a compulsory module of Coding 101. MinorProphet (talk) 21:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@41.114.250.185: The OP's first language is obviously not English, and possibly not their second language either. How many languages do you speak? Why don't you create a WP account rather than carping anonymously from the sidelines? I'm sure you failed some homework assignments yourself. MinorProphet (talk) 19:14, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well spotted, top marks! Hurrah! This is indeed the Computing Reference Desk. In 1995 (nearly 30 years go) I was fortunate and privileged enough to be in the group of the very first technical instructors from IBM to present that company's latest hardware offerings (laptops, desktops and PC servers) after the general international embargo ended, the same year when SA won the Rugby World Cup at home. I wasn't employed by IBM directly. It was a joyous occasion, taking place immediately after the 1994 South African general election. South Africa was open to the world again. But all the white people drove around in cars, including the taxi-drivers, and all the black people walked. That's how apartheid affected people's lives. All the techies I taught were white as well. MinorProphet (talk) 19:14, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"At least that's slightly relevant to this page. I'll keep it that much off topic by saying that in 1994 I (on behalf of my employer at the time) was one of the first customers for IBM (not Lenovo) ThinkPads in Australia. I still have two of them and they still work!!!! (On mains power of course.. The batteries are long gone.) HiLo48 (talk) 21:24, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yah, but can you still source those replacement red nipples? They wear out, you know. The feel of a brand new one under your fingertip is simply astounding. MinorProphet (talk) 02:28, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have a Dell Inspiron 3910 with 16 GB of RAM and approximately 216 GB of solid-state storage as the C: drive. I just got a pop-up message saying something to the effect of "We can't back up your system files". It says that if I free up some space on my "hard drive" (which is hard because it is solid-state), it will be able to back up my system files. I don't recall having seen that message before. I do see that I have 10.1 GB free on my solid-state C: drive out of 216 GB. I also see that my pagefile.sys on the C: drive has grown to 26.6 GB, which is what is taking up the space. My question is: What system backup function is there that was trying to back something up, and was unable to back something up? The message was a pop-up, and I can't bring it back, although maybe that isn't important. So: What system process was trying to back something up to my C: drive and didn't have space for the backup? I will, in the very near future, be getting something like WINDIRSTAT to get a better view of how the 206 GB is being used, to see what if anything to move to my F: drive. So what is trying to back up my system files automagically? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:15, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You've probably told us before, but which version of Windows are you using? Is there a load of Dell stuff in your Start Menu? Do you ever use such apps? Could be a cause. Maybe try disabling them sequentially in Services via Windows Task Manager. To reduce disk usage, perhaps try the resident Disk Cleanup app. Try using a fixed-size paging file. Delete the contents of your Temp folder and Recycle Bin. Purge your browser's cache frequently (In Firefox, press Ctrl+Shift+Delete, select 'Cache' only.) Your mileage may vary. MinorProphet (talk) 22:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:MinorProphet - You have addressed a question which I might have reasonably been asking, but not the question that I was asking. You have told me how to free up space on my disk. I already have plans for freeing up space on my disk. What I am asking is what process was trying to back something up on my C: drive. But thank you for useful general advice. Robert McClenon (talk) 07:06, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can the Fourier transform, using the Fourier series, analyze a function f(x) on a bounded interval x whose members are -P/2 and P/2 for some positive real number P, with frequency being the reciprocal of period (f=1/T or T=1/f), be programmed in PL/1? Afrazer123 (talk) 23:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no, as the frequency goes to infinity for this, and the coefficients are real numbers that can be calculated, but not with perfect accuracy. However PL/1 could be used to approximate a finite number of coefficients approximately. see Square wave#Fourier analysis for the calculation. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:47, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
E.g, software that can identify a person's native language, when they are currently speaking in a non-native language (e.g. English), rather than in their native language we want to identify.
AI is used for pattern matching and classification. If there is some pattern that classifies speech as having a specific accent, AI can identify the pattern and classify the accent. AI is not magic. It won't do any more than identify a pattern using one of the many methods of pattern matching and then classify using one of the many ways of clustering and classification. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 12:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A more precise answer is that no respondent here is aware of the existence of such an app. Perhaps the NSA has developed one but is keeping it under wraps. If so, how would we know? --Lambiam13:33, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is likely that, for the moment, it is far easier and cheaper to employ non-Artificial Intelligences, i.e. people, with linguistic expertise that enables them to make such identifications. This of course would only apply to specific instances – an AI-like application would be needed for automatic surveillance on a mass scale. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 00:18, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How to automatically search and replace text in Linux CLUI in a multi-lined way?
While it would be trivial to do this in Python or any other reasonable programming language, if I wanted to do this with a script, my approach would be:
. Convert all three files to a version which eliminates newlines, using sed. For convenience, I would replace the newline character with some character or string which would not occur in the HTML, call it '~' (tilde).
. Now add a newline to change the tilde in every occurrence of "</footer>~" to a newline in each of the three converted files. Do the same for "~<footer class="site-footer">". You end up with files where the html of interest is on a single line.
. Use sed to do the substitution of the single line file C text to replace the single line file B text in the single line file A text.
. Use sed to convert single line file A back to the original formatting by replacing '~' with newline.
In any programming langauge, A, B, and C are just text. So, you use a string replace function. In C++, it is (from memory) replace(A,B,C);. In Perl (again from memory), it is A=~s/B/C/;. In PHP, it is $A=str_replace($B,$C,$A);. In Python, it is A = A.replace(B,C);. In Node.js it is A = A.replace(B,C) as well. Note that in a programming language, a string is just a string of characters. It doesn't care if there are newline or return characters in it. So, replacing a substring replaces it all, including the return and newline characters. But, the text has to match perfectly. For example, if A is using two spaces for indentation and B is using tab characters, it won't match. Similarly, if one uses all lower case tag names and another uses all upper case tag names, it won't match. In that case, you need to reformat the text so it is all the same or use regular expressions. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 13:31, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. The FFT algorithms require computations based on the indices. This is not supported by relational databases. The notion of index is in fact alien to the relational model, which is essentially an unordered set of tuples (the rows) of named values (as identified by the row names). One can add the index as a key, basically an extra column, but this does not help. The SQL-type languages that come with such databases also do not support the recursion used by FFT algorithms. --Lambiam13:18, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. How pulsating! It seems there's a discharge of some sort which apparently isn't taken into consideration by the RDB while using an extra column (key) only exacerbates things. Also, SQL appears to be to confining, off-limits for the algorithm's recursion. Afrazer123 (talk) 02:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If I am using Firefox and Windows 11, and a web site asks me to turn off my ad blocker, and I don't know what ad blocker I am using, how do I determine what ad blocker I am using, so that I can turn it off? This is sort of a strange question, because I don't want to deal with ads, but I would rather just ignore the ads than deal with web sites that aggressively fight ad blocking. I do have Norton Safe Web. I don't know if it tries to block ads.
Robert McClenon (talk) 00:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Robert McClenon! In Windows 10 which I'm on, such blockers appear (with other things) in a drop-down list of 'Extensions' found by clicking a jigsaw-puzzle corner piece at the top right corner of the Firefox window. I had a similar problem (with YouTube) until I discovered that Malwarebytes had added ad blocking to its functions. Hope this helps. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 20:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The better way to get around this is to reconfigure your RAM firewall to exclude cloud analytic encryption on your virtual platform. Pretty simple fix, will take about 30 seconds. Jidarave (talk) 21:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wasted several seconds looking at it. It's what we call a solidworks engine. take any positive displacement pump, add fuel and oxidiser, hey presto semi believable engine animation. The total absence of technical info in the youtube I saw is a bit of a giveaway. "Get more energy out than you put in." yeah and I've got a bridge to sell you. Greglocock (talk) 05:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the H-bomb is considered a "holy grail". The term has been used for nuclear fusion as a source of "clean energy", where the hope is that "we can obtain more energy than we put in".[12] In this context, the wording "obtain more energy than is put in" is IMO somewhat justifiable: after all, E = mc2 gives mass–energy equivalence, not mass–energy equality. Claiming to obtain more energy than is put in for combustion engines is not justifiable. --Lambiam13:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Julian day says that the next Julian period will begin in AD 3268. When representing dates after this period begins, do mathematicians/astronomers/etc. reset the date count to 1 in 3268, or do they continue incrementing dates unchanged from 3267? If this is answered in the article, I missed it. Nyttend (talk) 21:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not convinced this is a math question, so perhaps it should be migrated to the science or computing desk. Are there people who actually need to keep track of dates that far in the future? --RDBury (talk) 02:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest asking the question again some time after the year, say, 3250, when the people in charge have started thinking about it. Personally, I would think that resetting would be rather inconvenient and serve no practical purpose. --Wrongfilter (talk) 12:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
nasa.gov already has free Julian astrometry to day ~5,373,483 (Anno Domini 9999, if they ever go to 9,999,999.999999999 you could get major solar system object positions till December 20th 22666 AD (a Thursday)). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No resetting: the Julian date is a continuous count. The epoch is fixed to the beginning of the current Julian period, it doesn't float to the beginning of the Julian period of times in the distant future. See for example "The Julian and Modified Julian Dates" by Dennis McCarthy from the USNO: "The Julian day number (JD) is the number assigned to a day in a continuous count of days beginning with the Julian day number 0 assigned to the day starting at Greenwich mean noon on 1 January 4713 B.C., in the Julian calendar extrapolated backwards ('proleptic')." Similarly, if you look into the IAU's SOFA software, it uses a fixed epoch, and defines the range of valid dates for the conversion routines [13], [14]: "The earliest valid date is -68569.5 (-4900 March 1). The largest value accepted is 10^9." This shows the understanding that Julian dates corresponding to future Julian periods are expected to be counted from the current epoch, without resetting. --Amble (talk) 16:18, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you find a specific citable source for no-reset? I'm uncomfortable citing the software, and I can't find the quote in McCarthy. Nyttend (talk) 21:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd recommend going with the McCarthy article and/or the IAU resolutions from 1997. For McCarthy, look in the last paragraph, just before the acknowledgements, pg. 330. [15] For the IAU resolutions, look at resolution B1 and the appendix here: [16]. --Amble (talk) 16:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Scene in Laramie, Wyoming, USA. I'd like to put it into Commons categories for the trees along the street — particularly the big prominent one near the centre — but I don't know anything about this kind of thing. Nyttend (talk) 08:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
PS, I was guessing blue spruce for the big one at the centre, but the shape is quite different from those of the trees pictured in that article. Nyttend (talk) 08:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A zoom-in on the image shows some distinctive spruce cones, and it is certainly blue-ish (Caveat: the blue spruce is an uncommon specimen tree in the UK and I'm not sure that I've ever seen one in person). Alansplodge (talk) 10:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking as a regular WP:Wikiproject Plants contributor, I would prefer that users didn't assign species categories to images such as this unless they were absolutely certain of the identification. Ideally, the image would include the label from the arboretum or botanical garden. Abductive (reasoning)21:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For deriving the Lorentz transformations, our article Derivations of the Lorentz transformations relies on their linearity. How do we know they must be linear? Our article answers: Since space is assumed to be homogeneous, the transformation[s] must be linear. I wonder, how their linearity is deduced from the homogeneity of space, before we've found how they will look like...
For the time being, I'm adding an Einsteinian source for this claim in the article, even though I don't know how Einstein derived this claim. HOTmag (talk) 23:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. However, rather than assuming linearity - from the very beginning (as you do), Einstein's claim I've quoted from our article - derives linearity - from the homogeneity of spacetime. My question was: how can the quote be justified. HOTmag (talk) 10:02, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the article in which Einstein introduced the special theory of relativity. His spacetime is flat, and the reference frame of a stationary observer is basically the same as for Lorentz, so space is an Euclidean 3-space. The "homogeneity" is that the laws of physics are invariant under an isometric transformation of space. Just homogeneity is not enough; to reach the conclusion, the flatness is essential. --Lambiam00:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's assume that the space is flat, and that the laws of physics are invariant under an isometric transformation of space. How do you infer from these assumptions, that the Lorentz transformations (which are actually not isometric) are linear? This is what I can't understand yet... HOTmag (talk) 18:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So I get that in around 100 billion years, our observable universe will be limited to the Local Group due to Hubble expansion (bummer), but would that include the Virgo Cluster? Some sources say that they would join due to gravity (https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/V/Virgo+Cluster, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe) but I'm also reading responses saying the Hubble expansion is more powerful and therefore Virgo would end up outside of the observable universe. I realize there a lot of variables that we don't know or could change. 184.96.249.124 (talk) 02:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that it is receding now does not necessarily imply that it will continue to recede forever. The Andromeda galaxy and the Milky Way once receded from each other but have by now turned around and are approaching each other. Every bound object (more exactly, "virialised object"), say a cluster or group of galaxies, has formed out of an initially expanding, but overdense region of the Universe that through the action of gravity has by now recollapsed (a "little crunch", if you will). Throwing a stone up in the air is a pretty good analogy: When I do that on earth, the stone will first move upwards (recede from me) but then it will invariably turn around and fall back down. When I do it on a sufficiently small asteroid, throwing the stone with the exact same force, it may well escape to infinity and never come back. What the analogy does not capture is the effect of Dark Energy, which prevents structures on very large scales from recollapsing, and, as I wrote in another recent thread, I do not know where the limit is. The article Laniakea Supercluster suggests that this structure is not bound, i.e. will not recollapse. You may want to have a look at the references therein. --Wrongfilter (talk) 08:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you but I know all of these. However it is well known that Virgo supercluster (as any supercluster) is not gravitationally bound. The present recessional velocity of the Virgo cluster is more that 1000 km/s. There is not nearly enough mass to even slow this expansion rate. If fact this velocity is already increasing due to the cosmic repulsion. Ruslik_Zero21:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure the results of the study support a statement like "immunity via infection doesn't provide much protection - at least in regard to severe infections" given that only about "a quarter of individuals with either a moderate or severe first infection coinciding with hospitalization also were hospitalized at the time of reinfection", although the difference might not be due to their immune responses. Sean.hoyland (talk) 06:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The unpredictability of viral infection and immune response at the individual level is quite impressive. I got an AstraZeneca shot, a Moderna shot about 6 months later and a Moderna booster 6 months after that or thereabouts and I didn't experience any symptomatic Covid infections, despite being surrounded by people with active infections quite often. Then finally, a couple of months ago, I had my first symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection. And despite having lived through decades of dengue seasons and thousands of mosquito bites in various places during dengue outbreaks without any symptomatic dengue infections, I had my first dengue infection a month after Covid. Hats off to scientists trying to make sense of these immensely complex systems. Sean.hoyland (talk) 07:47, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SARS-CoV-2 is a quickly mutating virus with many variants. The immunity provided after infection by one variant is strongest for that specific variant. Evading immunity is a driving factor in the evolution of the virus, which is why we may expect recurring waves, as we are used to for influenza. Next to reinfection with a different variant, the immunity after infection or after vaccination wears off after a couple of months. I have taken all shots and booster shots as soon as they were made available, yet I have been symptomatic twice. Since the vaccines are developed mostly for specific variants, and one usually does not determine the specific variant responsible for the infection of a symptomatic patient, I doubt that there are studies that have determined whether vaccination provides the same level of protection as that after infection. I'm not sure, but so many factors play a role that I think it will be very difficult to collect the data necessary for drawing a conclusion. --Lambiam09:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The immune system having a sort of predictive system via somatic hypermutation complicates matters. I think labs at La Jolla Institute for Immunology have done some work on comparing the immune responses to infection vs vaccination, immune memory etc. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_transformation says Frames of reference can be divided into two groups: inertial (relative motion with constant velocity) and non-inertial (accelerating, moving in curved paths, rotational motion with constant angular velocity, etc.). The term "Lorentz transformations" only refers to transformations between inertial frames, usually in the context of special relativity. Greglocock (talk) 04:25, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I learnt in school that different types of elements can bond in different ways, like non-metal atoms bond covalently together while a non-metal atom with a metal atom bond ionically, but why is that? Also, what factor(s) determine why some elements (like hydrogen) share/transfer 1 electron, while others (like carbon and nitrogen) and share/transfer 2 or 3 electrons? Bestfweind (talk) 04:58, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More than anything else, it's the number of valence electrons that each atom has, and the number that it needs. Hydrogen needs just one extra valence electron to have a full outer shell, so two hydrogens share a single electron. Nitrogen needs three, so two nitrogens share three electrons. Nyttend (talk) 07:00, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, you may be thinking of common compounds such as table salt, sodium chloride, which involves an alkali metal (at the left end of the periodic table) and a halogen (near the right end). Like the other alkali metals, sodium has just one valence electron, so it's highly electropositive (ready to give up an electron), and like the other halogens, chlorine needs just one valence electron, so it's highly electronegative (ready to gain an electron), and it's extremely easy to create an ionic bond between atoms that are both highly electropositive/negative and that need to give/take the same number. Nyttend (talk) 07:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The bond is better described as ionic when one atom is much more electronegative than the other. In something like table salt you can approximate the valence electron of Na as having passed completely to the Cl, although in reality it's not a complete transfer. Covalency happens when the electronegativities are similar. It is all a continuum from one to the other: Na–Cl will be more ionic than Li–Cl, which will in turn be more ionic than C–Cl.
The first-row elements B–Ne have a larger tendency towards multiple bonding than their higher homologues in lower rows, because their atoms are so small that non-bonding pairs of electrons result in significant repulsion. It's less of an issue for things like Al–Ar. Double sharp (talk) 07:24, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Our Double bond rule is quite light on cited content for the concept itself, and gives (with cite, that I can't access) a different rationale. Please update if you've got a ref. DMacks (talk) 03:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I keep meaning to split up that hybrid (ha!) of an article, but obviously keep never getting around to it. DMacks (talk) 04:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If image sleuths were to discover that the unexplained "Little Red Dots" observed by the JWST,[17] as seen from the solar system against the cosmic expanse, actually spell out a message in a well-known two-dimensional barcode, namely, "Of course I exist, you blockheads. Yours forever, God", would this seem relevant evidence? --Lambiam12:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most people who believe in a god believe in the same one as their parents, implying that they do so because of what some would call cultural influences, but which I call love bombing and brainwashing from birth. HiLo48 (talk)
"Of course I exist, you blockheads. Yours forever, God" - I guess it could be evidence of something, trickster djinns, the breaking of the 4th wall between simulator and simulated etc. They could simply arrange in person book signings for their best-selling books, go on some podcasts etc. Sean.hoyland (talk) 07:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nay I say! No sceptic can deny the uncontrovertably unfalsifiable revelation that the number pi found in epiphany when expanded to sufficiently many decimal places actually contains the message "Of course I exist, you blockheads. Yours forever, God", perfectly encoded in ASCII, itself proof of a divine miracle predating knowledge that humans gained no earlier than 1963 as attested by these witnesses.Philvoids (talk) 20:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will add that the big bang is what happened after the creation, but was not the singularity that was the start of the Universe. So creation is at time 0. Big bang in the interval (0,CMB visibility] Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is stated in our article on the Big Bang, with sources (see the "Singularity" section), that some authors use "Big Bang" to just mean the initial singularity and others include some periods after it. I'd argue that the name Big Bang nucleosynthesis sort of implies that at least the first few minutes (when deuterium, helium, and lithium are synthesised) can be taken as part of the "Big Bang". Double sharp (talk) 06:03, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Graeme Bartlett said that "creation is at time 0". That's a clearly scientific definition, though I suppose you can call it instead the initial singularity, if you like that name better. I suppose physics before the quark epoch is not yet empirically testable, in the sense that current accelerators cannot reach the energies needed to explore electroweak unification, but that's a matter of our current level of technology. Double sharp (talk) 08:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's also a matter of theory — beyond a certain point we need a theory of quantum-gravity to proceed, and that does not exist yet. The "Big Bang" singularity is an extrapolation based on known physics, which is known (pun...) to not be applicable to those conditions. So the evidence for a "Big Bang" is not quite what OP appears to imagine it to be. --Wrongfilter (talk) 09:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A common mistake, made by people at both sides of the controversy, is that God and religion are not meant to provide answers about the physical world. God is not meant to be an answer to the origin of the universe, the origin of life or any such question that requires a scientific answer. “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God” Cambalachero (talk) 03:45, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about: A great deal of unnecessary conflict has been created by people who assume that 2000-3000 year old Hebrew literature is the same genre as nineteenth-century scientific journals, and can therefore be understood using exactly the same assumptions and literary methods. -- Verbarson talkedits20:54, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the thousands years old Hebrew literature was written at a time when humans understanding of the nature was rudimentary and primitive, when people thought the Earth was the center of the universe and concept of atoms, subatomic particles and periodic table did not exist. --CometVolcano (talk) 16:01, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At that time, humans had no understanding of the nature of the universe. They did not know there are many galaxies in the universe. It was not untill the Great Debate (astronomy) humans did not know that Milky Way is one of billions of galaxies in the universe. --CometVolcano (talk) 19:25, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since it doesn't only refer to an object's length, but also to any abstract length, so why isn't this general fact mentioned in the lead of the article Length contraction, nor in (most of) the common literature discussing the phenomenon of length contraction?
Explanation: The lead of our article claims the following: If we (travel on a train and) observe a moving "object" (e.g. a moving building), for which is the object's length measured in the object's reference frame, then we will meausre the object's length to be shorter, i.e. So, why does the lead of our article (as well as the professional literature discussing this phenomenon) only mention an "object", even though this is also true for abstract lengths? Just substitute "distance" (e.g. between two buildings) for "object", and you'll get the following true analogous sentence: If we (travel on a train and) observe a moving distance (e.g. a distance between two co-moving buildings), for which is the distance's length measured in the distance's reference frame (i.e. in the reference frame of the buildings), then we will meausre the distance's length to be shorter, i.e.
Indeed, our article contains some hints, e.g. in the chapter "Basis in relativity": Here, "object" simply means a distance with endpoints that are always mutually at rest, i.e., that are at rest in the same inertial frame of reference. Yet, this general fact is neither mentioned nor implied, neither in the lead - nor in the chapters that prove the length contraction - nor in (most of) the common professional literature. HOTmag (talk) 19:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The phrase "any length in the moving object's reference frame" is ambiguous. Supposedly it is the length of some (other) object. Is it co-moving with the first object? By "a moving object measures (some length)", do you mean, "an observer to whom this moving object is at rest measures (some length)"? It is not very clear. --Lambiam20:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There once was a fellow called Fisk Whose fencing was strikingly brisk So fast was his action That FitzGerald contraction Reduced his rapier to a disk —I thought this was an original Lear, but can't find it. It was printed in our physics books at school in the 1970s.Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:48, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's focus on the following concrete example: If a moving observer measures a given distance between two trees to be one mile long, then we measure this distance to be shorter, i.e. mile long, right? So, why isn't this fact mentioned in the article? It only mentions an "object's length", which really includes the observer's length, yet not any abstract length, e.g. a distance between two trees and likewise. The phenomenon of length contraction is not only about an object's length, right? HOTmag (talk) 22:04, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the observer is moving along a row of trees, the trees are moving relative to the observer, so this moving observer will observe length contraction by a factor of for the distance between successive trees, compared to this distance as measured by an observer in whose frame of reference the trees are not moving. So, if "we" are the latter observer, we measure this distance to be longer, by a factor of than the length reported by the moving observer. If, on the other hand, the trees are moving with the observer, who (from their point of view) is standing still among a row of trees while seeing us whizz along in a rocket, this observer, who is moving only relative to us and not to the trees, will not observe length contraction for the distance between successive trees, whereas to us in the rocket the trees are moving, so we measure the inter-tree distance to be shorter by a factor of Do you feel our article should explicitly mention the fact that length contraction is not observed by an observer in whose frame of reference the object is not moving? --Lambiam06:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm really referring to the latter case you've mentioned, in which the trees are co-moving with the observer, who sees them at rest. It's only us who see, both the observer and the trees, co-moving at the same velocity.
As for your last question: No, I don't want our article to mention the obvious fact that no length contraction is observed by any observer in whose frame of reference the object being measured is at rest. However, I do want the lead of our article, as well as the professional literature discussing the phenomenon of length contraction, to mention that this phenomenon is not only about a given object's length but also about a given abstract length.
Let me explain my point: The lead of our article claims (in my own words) that: if we (travel on a train and) observe a moving "object" (e.g. a moving tree), for which is the object's length measured in the object's reference frame, then we will meausre the object's length to be shorter, i.e. right? I guess you agree (if not to my exact own words then to their content). So, why does the lead of our article (as well as the professional literature discussing this phenomenon) only mention an "object", even though this is also true for abstract lengths? Just substitute "distance" (e.g. between two trees) for "object", and you'll get the following true analogous sentence: If we (travel on a train and) observe a moving distance (e.g. a distance between two co-moving trees), for which is the distance's length measured in the distance's reference frame (i.e. in the reference frame of the trees), then we will meausre the distance's length to be shorter, i.e. right? This was my question from the very beginning. HOTmag (talk) 07:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly two trees set a distance apart is an object that has length. They don't have to be touching anymore than the solar system's planets do. Modocc (talk) 11:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the term "system's length" is more appropriate, than the term "object's length", as far as a distance (between two trees or two planets and the like) is concerned. Have you ever called the solar system "an object"? HOTmag (talk) 11:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Our solar system is a physical object. As are galaxies and our universe. Of course, these kinds of objects have spatial dimensions and a time dimension. Modocc (talk) 12:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which name is more appropriate: a "solar system" or a "solar object"?
On the other hand, which name would you prefer: a "system" consisting of two trees, or an "object" consisting of two trees? HOTmag (talk) 13:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Depends on the physical context. The term "system" regarding physical objects tends to be more abstract and typically refers to processes like with manufacturing and computers. An atmospheric cloud is both a system of particles and an object. Modocc (talk) 13:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Back to the trees observed by an observer on a moving train, who sees them co-moving and measures the distance between them: They are pretty wide, so the length being measured is not required to include their width, but only the distance between them, i.e. excluding them. This distance is influenced by the effect of length contraction. Would you call this distance an "boject", a "system", or simply a "distance"? The same question may be asked about the distance between two stars, excluding them. HOTmag (talk) 14:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With relativity the measured contraction is not an "effect". I've never disagreed. I called it "effect", just because it's called "effect" - in the lead of our article Length contraction - and in common speech.
The length between buttons is the same as the distance between them. This is exactly what I'm claiming from the very beginning. That's why I'm asking, why the lead of that article - only attributes that contraction to objects - and not also to distances as in your example of a distance between two buttons. HOTmag (talk) 17:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right. Matter is composed of various objects and referring to distances between their elements is simply redundant when length suffices, especially when talking about object velocities. Modocc (talk) 17:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Referring to distances between their elements is simply redundant when length suffices. Does mentioning "length" alone, suffice? Our article is not satisfied with mentioning "length" alone, and mentions an "object's length", so I asked: Why "object's length" only, and not also a "distance's length", as in your example of a distance between two buttons. This distance has nothing to do with matter, because it excludes the buttons. HOTmag (talk) 18:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The distance between buttons is spacial is it not. They are embedded in actual space. Thus the distances between the ends of rulers are the same as their lengths. Modocc (talk) 18:47, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
is it not. Yes it is.
the distance between the ends of a ruler is the same as the ruler's length. Your argument is the following: With regard to length contraction, OBJECT includes a ruler, whereas RULER includes any abstract length, Hence OBJECT is supposed to include any abstract length...
Just as, with regard to time dilation, OBJECT includes a clock, whereas CLOCK includes any abstract time, hence OBJECT is supposed to include any abstract time......
According to your explanation, the leads of our articles Length contraction and Time dilation, should've used, either the terms "object's length" and "object's time", respectively, or the terms "ruler's length" and "clock's time", respectively, or "length" alone and "time" alone, respectively.
However, this is not the case. The lead of our article Length contraction attributes "length" to an "object", rather than to a "ruler", whereas the lead of our article Time dilation attributes "time" to a "clock", rather than to an "object". How do you justify this asymmetry, between length contraction and time dilation? HOTmag (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rulers and clocks are objects that measure space and time. With relativity their asymmetric reference frame dependencies are a consequence of a coordinate change given the supposed existence of SR and GR's spacetime which conserves the distances of its worldlines. It is by no means a classical model. Modocc (talk) 20:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When I recently asked you about how "you justify this asymmetry between length contraction and time dilation", I didn't refer to what you're calling now "their asymmetric reference frame dependencies", but rather to the asymmetry between - how the lead of our article length contraction attributes "length" to an "object" rather than to a "ruler" - and how the lead of our article time dilation attributes "time" to a "clock" rather than to an "object".
Please notice, that according to your explanation in your previous response, the leads of those articles should've used, either the terms - "object's length" and "object's time" - respectively, or the terms - "ruler's length" and "clock's time" - respectively, or "length" alone and "time" alone respectively. However, this is not the case in the leads of those articles. My recent question was: Why, and it only referred to the leads of those articles (as well as to the common professional literature). HOTmag (talk) 20:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Our articles state: "Length contraction is the phenomenon that a moving object's length is measured to be shorter than its proper length, which is the length as measured in the object's own rest frame." and "Time dilation is the difference in elapsed time as measured by two clocks, either because of a relative velocity between them (special relativity), or a difference in gravitational potential between their locations (general relativity). When unspecified, "time dilation" usually refers to the effect due to velocity." Both descriptions refer to measurements of objects in relative motion. Modocc (talk) 21:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As you quote, the lead of our article length contraction states: "Length contraction is the phenomenon that a moving object's length is measured to be shorter than its proper length", right? So the lead of this article attributes "length" to one "object", instead of attributing length measurement to two "rulers" - a stationary one and a moving one, right?
On the other hand, as you quote, the lead of our article time dilation states: "Time dilation is the difference in elapsed time as measured by two clocks", right? So the lead of this article attributes time measurement to two "clocks" - a stationary one and a moving one, instead of attributing time to one "object", right? My question was: How do you justify this asymmetry between the leads of those articles. HOTmag (talk) 21:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first article does not attribute "length" to an "object". Objects have lengths as a property and there are different ways to measure them. In addition, not all objects tick in any obvious way and measure time, so of course clocks are mentioned. Twins do attain different ages per the Twin paradox. :-) Modocc (talk) 22:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first article does not attribute "length" to an "object". Objects have lengths as a property. Maybe you didn't interpret me well. By "to attribute X to Y" I mean "to mention X as the property of Y". The expression "a person's feelings" attributes feelings to a person, just as the expression "an object's length" attributes "length" to an "object". Both lengths and feelings are properties attributed to an object/person - respectively, i.e. a length/feeling is a property - an object/person has - respectively.
not all objects - [mark and] tick [moments] in any obvious way - and measure time, so of course clocks are mentioned [in the lead of our article time dilation]. The same is true for rulers: Not all objects - mark and tick centimeters in any obvious way - and measure length, so rulers should apparently have been mentioned in the lead of our article length contraction. So why weren't they mentioned in that lead, even though they should've been mentioned in that lead, just as clocks are mentioned in the lead of our article time dilation? HOTmag (talk) 23:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO the articles' ledes are fine, as is, and they appear to be written in accordance with the literature and my understanding of it. Without going into what would amount to original research I don't believe I have anything more to contribute here today. Modocc (talk) 23:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why, even though plastics degrade slowly, over hundreds to thousands of years, microplastic particles detach from its parent body (often bottles), contaminating the surrounding area, but glass bottles, for example, seemingly don't have such property? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 10:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, most glass bottles are made from materials that, when worn down into particles, are virtually identical to natural sands, so do not contaminate the marine environment. See also Sea glass (which I have always known as drift glass). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 00:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure where to start. This work defines 12 basic colors. Some are named, and I tried to match them up to sRGB equivalents...
However, I'm no expert on colors.
The original is written in the 1880's, and the author was connected with commercial printers in the US.
It seems reasonable to assume the basic colors were originally intended to match up with available basic pigments available at the time of publication.
So what are the likely 12 original colors (ideally based on pigments that would be generally available to a printer in the US) as modern (and sRGB equivlants?)
The author writes, "These colors were adopted because the writer believes that a greater variety of mixed colors can be produced from this selection than from any other containing the same number; besides, these colors are not only the most useful, but also, the most common, and best known among printers." So they were obviously widely available as printing inks, although I doubt they were thought of as "basic" pigments. We have a List of inorganic pigments; I expect most of these 12 are among them. Even if identified, it may not be obvious how to place them in sRGB colour space. --Lambiam19:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't sadly know where to start looking for information as to common printing inks in the 1880's, but from initial reading around, I'm finding that the articles on pigments don't necessarily have sample colors on them. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You probably know this already, but 'The Printer's Manual: An Illustrated History: Classical and Unusual Texts on Printing from the Seventeenth, Eighteenth, and Nineteenth Centuries' by David Pankow says that Earhart's 12 colors came from "twelve stock inks". Maybe they had the same names that he used...not that that helps you get closer to your objective in any way whatsoever. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. So it's a case of working out what the stock inks were. In the scan some of the color samples like Vermillion and Rose Lake seem to be different from what I was finding with those names. And whilst the work says it used zinc white, using an approximation I found for that as an HTML triplet, gave colors that were too desturated compared to whats in the scan. Some degree of pigment fading or color change is not unepexected in a more than 100 year old work, but it would be nice to try and figure out collectively what the originals might have been :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:45, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Vermilion is actually not one specific colour but a colour family. The pigments are very likely still available today – if not as commercial printing inks, then as artists' paints. There is no guarantee, though, that two colours with the same name from different producers are identical. Also, there is no guarantee that the colours you see on your screen are the same as those on the physical pages of the book. The average RGB triple for the scan of the colour labeled BLUE is (63, 125, 161), or #3f7da1, which is not very blue, more like steel blue, so the scanned B values are perhaps systematically too low. --Lambiam00:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The challenges in a zero-gravity setting are manifold. Surgery commonly induces some bleeding. In Earth-bound surgery, gravity keeps the blood from floating away. Free-floating blood droplets will present an unacceptable risk, so foolproof procedures need to be developed to prevent the blood or other bodily fluids from escaping. Free-floating surgical instruments are also not acceptable, but tethering them is awkward. AFAIK no surgery has been attempted under zero-gravity conditions, whether experimental or out of necessity. --Lambiam10:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings! I was reading the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauna_of_Puerto_Rico article and came across the above word, it is blue-linked to "Speciation" but I cannot find that word on the speciation article. I couldn't find a definition in several dictionaries i checked either...Do you know what this word means? could it be made more clear in the article?140.147.160.225 (talk) 18:47, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. VICARIANCE n. (biology) The separation of a group of organisms by a geographic barrier, resulting in differentiation of the original group into new varieties or species [19]Philvoids (talk) 12:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At Talk:Fels-Naptha I raised the issue that the article makes that unsourced claim that "Fels-Naptha once contained naphtha, a skin and eye irritant", but I was unable to find any source showing that Fels-Naptha (note the single "h") soap used to have Naphtha (note the two "h"s) in it, when it was removed, or why it was removed. This may be an urban myth. Can anyone find a source for those claims? --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 19:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Following up links in the references of that article and of Naphtha leads to several sources that state naphtha was dropped from the ingredients, at least one saying this was due to fears it might be carcinogenic. I don't know if any of those sources count as 'Reliable', and none give their sources. This seems unsurprising given the degree to which naphtha was and is used in many products and processes.
'Naptha' seems merely to be a common variant spelling, particularly in product names, presumably because the string -phth- is uncommon in English and likely to be mispronounced and misread by non-chemists. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 20:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When a stationary system absorbs a new stationary body, the system's restmass increases by the new body's restmass.
Something similar happens when an electron absorbs light. See Wikisource: The free electrons absorb some of the ultraviolet energy that initially set them free and form an ionized layer.
However, when a stationary body collides with a moving body, the stationary body gains kinetic energy, without changing this body's restmass.
Can a moving body be absorbed by an absorber (like in the first case), but with the absorber's restmass remaining the same as before (like in the second case)? HOTmag (talk) 12:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Photons caught by a trap increases its mass. As Ruslik_Zero points out, photons interacting with free electrons are not absorbed. Instead they interact elastically, but inelastic collisions are always additive increasing the invariant mass of the absorber. Modocc (talk) 14:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Must the answer to the question in the title be negative?
As for free electrons absorbing light, I've struck it out, but is the book "Electronics Technician" wrong? It's quoted in Wikisource: [20]: The free electrons absorb some of the ultraviolet energy that initially set them free and form an ionized layer.
Not wrong. The electrons were bonded so the photons' energies broke them without changing their intrinsic rest masses. Modocc (talk) 15:38, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so I've just added back the first comment about free electrons absorbing light (I've also added your clarification). Anyway, I'm still curious to know the answer to the question in the title. HOTmag (talk) 16:27, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. I certainly did not nor did I say the electron's mass increased! And when I realized I simply repeated what you said I was going to fix that. Modocc (talk) 18:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HOTmag, as I was trying to say, bound matter's rest mass increases unless the energy absorbed by it gets emitted again. Modocc (talk) 18:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To sum up, electrons' masses are intrinsic and elemental, but the bound rest masses of objects are not. Both absorbed light and matter can increase the latter's (bound rest masses) mass as you observed, but neither can increase the former's mass (the electron's). Thus the answer is no, absorbers do not absorb matter without increasing their rest masses unless they release it, like you noted with particle annihilation, if only because their masses are not as elemental as their constituents... Modocc (talk) 00:24, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let me be more clear, now without mentioning photons:
When a stationary system absorbs a new stationary body, the system's restmass increases by the new body's restmass.
However, when a stationary body collides with a moving body, the stationary body gains kinetic energy, without changing this body's restmass.
Can matter be absorbed by an absorber (like in the first case), but with the absorber's restmass remaining the same as before (like in the second case)? HOTmag (talk) 19:30, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first case, absorption, always adds rest mass (the second case changes the object's KE, but not its rest mass like within particle accelerators). Modocc (talk) 20:11, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't ask about the first case, i.e. about a stationary system absorbing a stationary body so that the whole system's restsmass increases, nor about the second case in which the restmass doesn't change.
I wonder, why there can be no third case, i.e, a case in which a system (whether a stationary one or a moving one) absorbs a moving body, so that the system's kinetic energy increases but the whole system's restsmass doesn't change. Is there any reasoning or explanation behind this fact of absence of such a third case? HOTmag (talk) 21:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the conservation of energy is not sufficient for the full explanation: Without the conservation of momentum, one can still argue, that before the absorptoin, the absorber was at rest - hence carried no kinetic energy, while the other body about to be absorbed carried some kinetic energy. After the absorption, the whole system remained surprisingly with the same mass as before, but gained the absorbed body's kinetic energy. What's wrong with that? The wrong thing is my neglecting the conservation of momentum. HOTmag (talk) 00:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The absorbed body adds, at a minimum, a mass-energy equal to KE/c2 to the absorber which gains its KE. In addition, for the n-body system, its rest mass and total energy is conserved and unchanged whether they are far apart or bonded together, or internalized and perhaps superimposed. To calculate their combined rest mass one simply adds up their energies in its center-of-momentum frame. In this reference frame the momentum vanishes and their total energy is therefore its rest mass. Modocc (talk) 03:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As to your first sentence about adding a mass to the absorber: Please notice, that without the conservation of momentum, one can still argue that before the absorption, the body about to be absorbed carried a total energy of the size that included - both an internal energy - and a kinetic energy of the size equivalent to the mass you've mentioned. After the absorption, the whole system remained surprisingly with the same mass as before, whereas the absorbed body's internal energy of the size was not added to the absorber's internal energy as an addition of the size , but rather the absorbed body's total energy was added to the absorber's kinetic energy as an addition of the size . What's wrong with that, without assuming the consevation of momentum, which may actually be not conserved (as you can see in my following thread)?
As to your last claim that "for the n-body system, its rest mass and total energy is conserved and unchanged whether they are far apart or bonded together": AFAIK, what's conserved is the mass-energy as a whole, but the mass alone doesn't have to be conserved: Check: an electron-positron pair, becoming energy alone, without conserving the mass alone (unless one attributes mass to photons, which is a controversial and debatable possibility). HOTmag (talk) 07:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Energy contributes to the rest mass. For example, the gluons' energy within the proton contributes to its overall rest mass. It's a widely accepted concept. Modocc (talk) 12:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not always. Check: an electron-positron pair, becoming energy alone, without contributing any mass to the light emitted (unless one attributes mass to photons, which is a controversial and debatable possibility). HOTmag (talk) 12:38, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Before the electron and the positron annihilated each other and became energy, the system's rest mass was positive, but after they annihilated each other, the system became light carrying no restmass. HOTmag (talk) 13:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, their energy does not vanish, but their 2-body restmass does vanish, once they annihilate each other and become light, which actually carries no restmass, so the energy they carried before they annihilated each other does not contribute any mass to the light emitted. HOTmag (talk) 17:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Place the event in an opaque container. Both the container's total energy and momentum are unaffected because its rest mass includes the photons. Modocc (talk) 19:55, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, when a photon is absorbed it contributes to the absorber's restmass.
However, when an electron-positron pair becomes light in the free space, the pair's restmass vanishes.
This proves that restmass alone, in the free space (rather than in an opaque container), doesn't have to be conserved.
Indeed, restmass is conserved if one assumes both the conservation of energy and the conservation of momentum, but if one only assumes the conservation of energy without assuming the conservation of momentum, then one can still argue, that although any massive body about to be absorbed carries a total energy of the size that includes - both an internal energy - and a kinetic energy of the size equivalent to the mass still after the absorption, the absorber remains surprisingly with the same restmass as before, whereas the absorbed body's internal energy of the size is not added to the absorber's internal energy as an addition of the size , but rather the absorbed body's total energy is added to the absorber's kinetic energy as an addition of the size . What's wrong with that, without assuming the consevation of momentum, which may actually be not conserved (as you can see in my following thread)? HOTmag (talk) 22:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The container need not contain free space and even if it does as a system its total energy still does not change. Think also of the atmospheric cloud. It consists of enormous numbers of massive and massless particles moving at various velocities, but it is nearly stationary to you and the clouds' total energy that can be calculated is called rest mass. Modocc (talk) 23:00, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the container, as well as the atmospheric cloud, are systems each of which conserves the restmass. However, in my previous response I didn't talk about any container, nor about any atmospheric cloud. I only said, that "when an electron-positron pair becomes light, [not in a container nor in an atmospheric cloud, but rather] in the free space, then the pair's restmass vanishes". This proves that restmass alone, in the free space (rather than in a container or in an atmospheric cloud), doesn't have to be conserved. Then I added the crucial last paragraph in my previous response. HOTmag (talk) 06:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In videos of grooming monkeys put all the trash they clean into own mouth, as if eating it, rather than throwing out (same happens when a pet monkey is grooming a human). Why do they do that and isn't harmful for their health? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 10:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If they find lice, these are delicious and nutritious. Also yummy and more important are flakes of salt (dried-up sweat). Dandruff is harmless. If it was generally harmful to their health, evolution would have weeded out this specific behaviour long time ago. --Lambiam12:32, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess when you are a social animal, putting parasites you have found back on the ground probably isn't a good idea. This is, however, what my dog does with ticks. But the ticks are apparently not delicious, even for fire ants. Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, small things sometimes (often?) have some antibacterial and antifungal things in their biological toolkits to help them stay alive. Maybe eating them can be beneficial. Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:36, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When a given object tends to get attached to close objects, it may be called "sticky". What about the opposite phenomenon? i.e. How should a given object be called, when it's "reluctant" to get attached to close objects? Even if all objects are at rest, so the adjective "elastic" is not sufficient for describing the opposite of "sticky". HOTmag (talk) 20:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am an artist currently working on a project themed around prehistory and I'd like to know about the geological composition of Lascaux (as well as other early human settlements and pre-human geography in general), so I can better represent it. Additionally, is there any sort of database I can use for these purposes? Aedenuniverse (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The function of Lascaux is a topic of academic debate, but it was not a settlement. It, and similar caves, are not suitable for serving as dwellings. Human groups of that time lived in tents or the open air, and may occasionally have found shelter in much shallower caves. --Lambiam12:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Conserving the kinetic energy, without conserving the momentum. Possible?
There being no external forces, inelastic collisions conserve the whole system's momentum, without conserving the whole system's kinetic energy.
What about the opposite physical process? I.E. is there any physical process, e.g. with external forces, which conserves the whole system's kinetic energy, without conserving the whole system's momentum? HOTmag (talk) 07:27, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
I've just thought about it:
The whole system is: a single elastic body.
The physical process is as follows: the single elastic body collides with an elastic wall, being the external force.
Result: the single elastic body is pushed back to the oppposite direction, with the same speed as before the elastic collision took place.
All types of collision (inelastic or elastic) conserve momentum. Total kinetic energy would be conserved (meaning no release of sound or heat) only in an impractical perfectly elastic collision. To identify a process that conserves a system's kinetic energy but may be affected by external forces, one needs firstly to clarify whether the system shall qualify as an Isolated system where thermodynamic laws apply. The Second law of thermodynamics observes that the entropy of isolated systems left to spontaneous evolution cannot decrease, as they always tend toward a state of thermodynamic equilibrium where the entropy is highest at the given internal energy. Philvoids (talk) 10:10, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Garg, Anu (2007). The Dord, the Diglot, and an Avocado Or Two: The Hidden Lives and Strange Origins of Words. Penguin. p. 399. ISBN 9780452288614.
Do you have access to the page 399? I would like to find out what it says about the two researchers, Isabel Bear and Dick Thomas. (In ruwiki the same source is cited and it is written that Thomas was from UK, whereas the enwiki says they are both from Australia).
The ref says, "In 1964, two Australian researchers, I.J. Bear and R. G. Thomas..." but does not provide any further biographical informaion about either one. Our article links to enwiki articles about each of them: Isabel Joy Bear and Richard Grenfell Thomas. Bear's article makes a strong claim for her being Australian, even though she did work for a few years in the UK. Thoman's article does not have any hint of any national connection other than Australia. DMacks (talk) 01:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Bear's article says "In the 1950s Bear moved to the United Kingdom, where she worked at the Harwell Science and Innovation Campus. She moved to the University of Birmingham, where she worked as a postdoctoral researcher in the department of metallurgy. Whilst working in Birmingham Bear became interested in solid-state chemistry. Bear joined the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIRO) in 1953, [...]" -- does it mean she apparently worked in the UK between 1950 and 1953?
Given the results from powers of tau in the trusted setup ceremony ; the verifying and the proving key, how can I find the point [f] resulting from the trusted setup in Groth16 ?
Is there any smooth function with the following two properties:
, i.e. the nth derivative of f is strictly positive for every x and n.
for every b > 1. The hard case is when b is small.
Functions like (for a > 1) are the only ones I can think of with the first property, but none of them has the second property because you can always choose b < a. So I am asking whether there is any function with the first property that grows slower than exponential.
Wouldn't any power series with positive coefficients that decrease compared to the coefficients of the exponential do? The exponential is , so e.g. should do the trick. The next question is whether you can find a closed-form expression for this or a similar power series. --Wrongfilter (talk) 13:02, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good thinking. It is of course the case that the first property holds for any power series where all coefficients are positive. Plotting on a graph, I think your specific example doesn't satisfy the second property, but others where the coefficients decrease more rapidly do. 120.21.218.123 (talk) 13:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A variant of Wrongfilter's idea that I think does work:
(taking to be ).
Numerical evidence suggests that One might therefore hope that would also work. However, its second derivative is negative for --Lambiam22:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the sum of the first m factorial numbers is equal to the sum of the first n positive integers, i.e. 1! + 2! + 3! + … + m! = 1 + 2 + 3 + … + n, then (m,n) = (0,0), (1,1), (2,2), (5,17), right? 220.132.216.52 (talk) 20:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The triangular numbers, modulo 19, are reduced to one of 10 possibilities: 0, 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 15 and 17. The sum 1! + 2! + 3! + ... + m!, for m > 17, modulo 19, is reduced to 8. Therefore no further factorial sums are triangular. --Lambiam22:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at mod 7 with about the same result. The left hand side is 5 for m≥6 and the right hand side can never be 5. So you only have to check m from 1 to 5. (Btw, I would count 0! = 1 as a factorial number, so the sums of factorials would be 1, 2, 4, 10, 34, ... . (sequence A003422 in the OEIS)) --RDBury (talk) 22:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wrote up a quick MATLAB script to find numbers which can be used as modulos to show that the list is finite, it starts: . Obviously if a number appears in the list then all its positive multiples do too. The list of nontrivial numbers starts GalacticShoe (talk) 03:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(On math section as it's a geometric/trig problem essentially)
In CSS, color-mix() takes 2 Params.. However I have colors to mix that take 3 or more params.
Whilst with 2 params you can do a simple linear interpolation, based on the weights of the 2 params, I wasn't sure how it could be done for 3.
One approach I had considered was (at least for an RGB blend) is to compute the centrepoint of a triangle in 3D space, where the 3 points of the triangle are the three colors. However that would assume equal weights of each color, I figured
So for a given "triangle" defined by (r1,g1,b1),(r2,g2,g2), (r3,b3,g3) and a mix ratio of w1:w2:w3 compute the centroid(?) of the triangle representing the blended color. ?
I don't have an actual computer graphics answer, but the interpolation method still works for three points, simply take the weighted sum of points assuming (if not, then just define new values which do add to .) In other words, you can just take (or, more concisely, .) GalacticShoe (talk) 17:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The weighted average makes sense for additivecolour mixing, but the colour resulting from pigment mixing is not so easily determined. For example, the colours and are complementary. Their sum in RGB colour models is and their average is , as grey as it gets. However, mixing red and green paint gives more of a brown colour.[22] A colour model that is more likely close to that of The Color Printer is the RYB colour model. If the pigments are fully opaque, the subtractive model is adequate, but generally pigments are not fully opaque. --Lambiam21:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is something I actually did! Back in the '80s, I was consulting for a company called ImageSet. One of our specialties was tools to allow people to take the equivalent of screenshots on MSDOS (using a TSR program), and then convert them to matching colors to be printed. We used trilinear interpolation to achieve the desired colors, if I remember right. It was a ridiculous amount of precision, especially considering that every CRT user adjusted the brightness etc. to their own favored wrong colors. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇17:06, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Google Books and Google Scholar searches for "Abel's reciprocity relation" do not yield any results,[23][24] so is this perhaps better known under a different name? --Lambiam21:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In this book I find a treatment of "The Reciprocity Theorem" for "Abelian differentials of the second and third kind", and in this one one of what is called "the reciprocity law for differentials of the first and third kinds". I'm only vaguely familiar with the first principles of differential geometry; the limited preview afforded by Google Books does not allow me to understand the notation and see how these two theorems, which superficially look rather different, are related. Both are apparently related to "Abel's theorem" on sums of integrals of certain types of function. We appear to treat only a very simple application of the latter theorem under the name "Abel's identity", so I am afraid the answer to your question is negative. --Lambiam09:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where (polar radius of curvature {RoC}) and is the normal RoC, what is (especially the vertex latitude, )? Since it involves it would suggest a type of curvature, rather than RoC—?
Likewise with geocentric latitude, , there is (with being the geocentric radius).
This is based on (so, technically, isn't N the geographic prime vertical RoC and R, besides being the geocentric radius, is also the geocentric prime vertical RoC?). -- Kaimbridge (talk) 18:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The ratio can be rewritten as where is the eccentricity of the ellipsoid. Eccentricity is a dimensionless quantity, also when the radii and are expressed using units of length such as kilometres or miles, and so is this ratio. At the poles () it equals and at the equator () it equals If the radii are dimensioned lengths, then so is curvature; its dimension is then the inverse of length. Therefore there is no plausible way to interpret this dimensionless ratio as a form of curvature. --Lambiam21:05, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But I thought the root definition of curvature is that its radius is its inverse, and anything else, here b', is just a modifier.
What about the idea of and being different prime vertical RoC (in the case of the foundational, parametric latitude, the prime vertical RoC is just )? -- Kaimbridge (talk) 03:57, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not understand what you are asking. A geometric interpretation of these quantities? Indeed, the radius of curvature is the inverse of the curvature; my point was that if one is dimensioned, so is the other, while the ratio about which the question appeared to be is inherently dimensionless, so it cannot be some type of curvature. I also do not understand what you mean by "just a modifier". It is the prime-vertical radius of curvature at the pole, which you proceed to divide by that at at geodetic latitude --Lambiam08:17, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By "just a modifier", I mean prime-vertical curvature, so b' is a modifier of that curvature.
Okay, so what about in this situation? Would in be considered the geocentric prime vertical RoC?
In terms of purpose/context, and are used (as vertex latitudes and ) in the geographic and geocentric (respectively) calculation of geodetic distance (rather than the usual based, parametric calculation, which has a neutral value, ), all using the same, iteratively found, geodetically adjusted longitude difference (). -- Kaimbridge (talk) 06:54, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A radius of curvature at a given spot is the radius of an osculating circle. It can be viewed as a vector from the centre of that circle to the given spot. If the direction of this RoC, viewed as a vector, is the vertical direction, it is a vertical RoC. (If, moreover, the plane of the osculating circle is perpendicular to the meridian through the given spot, so it intersects the ellipsoid along the east–west direction, it is the local prime-vertical RoC.) Unless the ellipsoid is a sphere, the geocentric radius at any other spot than the poles or equator, viewed as a vector from the centre to that spot, is not in the vertical direction, so it is not the radius of a locally osculating circle and it is not particularly meaningful to interpret it as either vertical or as a RoC, let alone both. --Lambiam10:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I had / have this fairly rather long blabbersome brilliant idea. My question is since there is no way that I, with a rather low IQ, could come up with something "new", then my idea certainly must be merely a rehash of some ideas already mentioned on several Wikipedia pages, in fact probably just a sentence on just one page. But which one(s)? Thanks. Jidanni (talk) 04:56, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your page is cumbersome to follow, but if I'm correct in interpreting it, you are essentially proposing the use of a pairing function or Hilbert curve. It is not possible to continuously reduce dimension in this manner (more precisely, 1D and 2D space are not homeomorphic). It would help if you would more rigorously formulate the function you are proposing rather than merely using examples.--Jasper Deng(talk)06:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia defines "pairing function" only for natural numbers, but below I use the term for (not necessarily unique) functions wrapping up two values (not necessarily integers) into a single one of the same type.
Letting stand for the unit interval the Hilbert curve can be described as a function Input one number output a pair of numbers. This function is surjective, which implies that there exists an inverse pairing function Being an inverse means that when we have Function is also continuous, but it is not injective. Many output pairs are reached several times; for example, So the inverse is not unique.
Numbers in can be written in base 2; for example, and This expansion is not unique: We can view these binary expansions as infinite sequences The function given by interprets a binary expansion as a real number. This function is continuous and surjective, just like function before, so it has an inverse. But, as before, function is not injective, so the inverse is not unique. However, by convention, it has a "canonical" inverse: other than the only possible expansion of in the domain of avoid sequences ending in an infinite stream of s.
Now, using we can define a bicontinuous pairing function such that
This means that we can give a "canonical" definition for by using and its canonical inverse:
The function can be described in the form of a 4-state finite-state automaton that gobbles up two streams of bits and produces a single stream of bits. It takes two bits at a time, one from each of the two input streams, and outputs two bits on the output stream.
I suspect that the "brilliant idea" is akin to this way of pairing and I expect the idea is well known, but perhaps only as folklore, and I doubt that it is described or even hinted at in Wikipedia mainspace. --Lambiam, edited 10:51, 28 July 2024 (UTC) (originall 11:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC))[reply]
In health care, I noticed that many estimation algorithms make extensive use of log functions. For example, the ASCVD 10-year risk estimation from "2013 ACC/AHA Guideline on the Assessment of Cardiovascular Risk" sums up a coefficient times the log of age, a coefficient times the log of total cholesterol, a coefficient times the log of HDL, etc... It is a set of coefficients, each multiplied by the log of an attribute. Is this type of function or algorithm the result of a specific type of data modeling? It looks to me like they took a sample data set and correlated the log of each attribute, one at a time, to the outcome and produced a coefficient that represents how correlated the log of that attribute is in the sample set. But, I'm just guessing and I'd prefer to know how this type of function is actually produced. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 10:54, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not familiar with how this estimator was devised, but model building is an art, especially in cases where the data is noisy and the causal processes are poorly understood. Social scientists routinely use purely linear regression models, because that is what they were taught as students, it is the default model of R, which many use, and everyone else in their field does this. When a variable (independent or dependent) can only assume positive values, it cannot have a normal distribution. This is an indication that pure linear regression may not be the best approach when devising an estimator. So then it is good practice to use a data transformation that makes the observed distribution more normal. I don't know if this is why they did what they did. Another possibility is that they just computed the correlation coefficients and saw they were higher when using a logarithmic scale. --Lambiam11:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are there other triangular numbers with all digits 6?
For each solution, the number is an all-6 triangular number.
I don't expect any further solutions, but neither do I see an argument exhibiting that they cannot exist. The weaker requirement has four solutions for for each given value of corresponding to the final digits For example, for they are The polynomials in in the rhs of the Diophantine equation are irreducible. It seems that considerations based on modular arithmetic are not going to give further help. --Lambiam19:59, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discriminant of the quadratic is . This needs to be a perfect square for there to be a solution, so we need for some integer k. Since will get "closer" to being an even perfect square as p approaches infinity, I heuristically wouldn't expect more than a finite amount of solutions to exist.--Jasper Deng(talk)03:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This gives yet another way of phrasing the problem. Define the recurrent sequence by:
It turns out that because the discriminant is added or subtracted to 3 and then divided by 2a=24 in the quadratic formula, there are even more stringent restrictions: the numerator has to be divisible by 24, so we must have and thus . That restriction alone would seem to greatly reduce the amount of candidates (only every other odd perfect square satisfies that).--Jasper Deng(talk)04:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I'm looking for a short story, or maybe a part of a novel.
It's about a sacristan/custodian of a church in England. He fulfills duties with joy, but he can't read/write. As the (new?) priest notices it, and after discussions the sacristan gets "sacked". He then opens a cigar shop, has great success, expands and so on, but he still can"t read. The story ends that a customer or someone else asks him surprised: "You created all this, without being able to read? Imagine what you could have been, if you COULD read!"
The former sacristan, now shop owner, replies: "oh, that is easy! I would still be sacristan at St. -Elsewhere-."
Can someone help me? Sadly I don't remember the author, or the title, not even the church name. What I do know, the language was english. (I'm German).
Thank you all! William Somerset Maugham of course! Love his work! Must have read this story in a Public Library book many years ago, then! Now I have to get hold of a German edition of "The Verger", as a gift for a friend of mine, who doesn't speak english!
Hi, I'd like to point those interested to a discussion about the development of the letterforms at Talk:Proto-Sinaitic_script. (Yes, of course we're aware of WP:OR.) And I'd like to ask where's a better place to talk about it. A bit niche. I'm making a video series with novel hypotheses but I don't have anybody to give me feedback. Temerarius (talk) 03:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Having linked to the discusssion, and now looked at it, I'm quite certain that it does not belong on the talk page, or, probably, anywhere in Wikipedia. WP:Talk page guidelines says Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject. ColinFine (talk) 09:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, see particularly WP:TALKOFFTOPIC, which says It is common to simply delete gibberish, test edits, harmful or prohibited material (as described above), and comments or discussion clearly about the article's subject itself (as opposed to comments and discussion about the treatment of the subject in the article). ColinFine (talk) 09:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that that's strictly speaking not the same character, in terms of text encoding. The character you named is ° U+00B0 DEGREE SYMBOL, while the one used as an ordinal indicator should typically be encoded as º U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR. Fut.Perf.☼11:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Future Perfect at Sunrise: Uhm, many thanks for that hint. So in languages using the U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR, keyboards contain that character, while others probably do not (I on my German keyboard believed it to be a degree symbol)? --KnightMove (talk) 13:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aha. "Masculine ordinal indicator", as in primero, segundo, tercero, etc. Exactly as we use -st, -nd, -rd, -th in English. Only it's easier in Spanish because all the masculine ordinals end in -o. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Error: Thank you very much for that list! Do I see it right that only the numeral ordinators are considered characters in their own right, while all the other superscript letters as in p.za are really just that - superscript letters? --KnightMove (talk) 06:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Plus: The ordinal indicators o and a are also parts of abbreviations in that list: camp.º, carr.ª - do I understand it right that this is technically wrong, and normal supercript a's and o's should be used in those cases? --KnightMove (talk) 06:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Here is the teclado nacional, deprecated since 1971 but still in use when I was there [26]. Job adverts specified either teclado nacional or teclado internacional (the one we use). Monday is segunda-feira, but often written as 2a. The top left key seems to be the one for that. You can see the French AZERTY layout at [27] (note the penultimate key on the top line). On the German and Swiss QWERTZ keyboards again note the top left-hand key [28]. 92.10.146.73 (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@KnightMove:: There are separate Unicode superscripts distinct from HTML superior letters. It also distinguishes the ordinal indicators and these superior letters. The Real Academia Española's DPD uses C.ª with the indicator and C.ía with HTML sup in the same line. It is not using the Unicode superscripts. RAE is authoritative but our articles say that it is not followed by all language users. Probably professional typographers may differ about it and unprofessional typographers tasked with text formatting tasks will differ further. --Error (talk) 10:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of the nine Federal states of Austria, six have a traditional English name, at a minimum Tyrol having a varied English spelling. Burgenland, Vorarlberg and Salzburg have not. In the former two cases, this may be explained with the rather young age of the names (1921 and middle of the 18th century, respectively). But Salzburg is really old. Why do e.g. Styria and Carinthia have English names, but Salzburg has not? Where does this difference come from? --KnightMove (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say for the same reason that Hamburg is written the same way in English and German, whilst Bavaria/Bayern isn't. The 'English name' of Salzburg is Salzburg, thus the same would apply for the state name. Presumably the name didn't create problems for English writers and they got used to writing it same way as in German. --Soman (talk) 11:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The traditional English names actually come from (or via) Latin or Italian, so why not have another traditional name derived from German? The Latin version would be Salisburg or something like that, with a pronunciation that is not far off "Salzburg" anyway. --Wrongfilter (talk) 12:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Salzburg" works in English, "Steiermark" and "Kärnten" don't. I mean Salzburg looks and sounds pretty much like an English word or placeneme might. "Steiermark" and "Kärnten" look and sound like nothing any Englishman might ever say or hear. But as Alan says, these kind of "why" or "why not" questions really can't be answered. DuncanHill (talk) 22:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, English exonyms tend to follow French ones, Cologne for example. French "bourg" endings are Anglicised as "burg", such as Strasburg and Luxemburg. Alansplodge (talk) 08:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Without looking up the meaning of the word "exonym", Portuguese names for overseas cities follow the German - Luxemburgo, Estrasburgo. English names, on the other hand, follow the French: "Luxembourg" (I've been there), "Strasbourg". There are places named Strasburg in America. 2A02:C7B:232:7100:5830:3E14:CB16:6F14 (talk) 14:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do they call it when a court argues it lacks the authority/competence to hear a case and directs it to a higher court? If there's an opposite of a writ Procedendo, that might be it. But is there such a mechanism? Cheers! ——Serial Number 5412916:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would actually seem to be the opposite! A high court sending a case back to a lower court? I mean a lower court that claims it does not have the legal authority so upstairs must deal with it. ——Serial Number 5412916:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's called a "referral" in England, but I'm having trouble pinning it down as the same word is used in a number of other legal contexts. Alansplodge (talk) 08:55, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It depends on the context. If a magistrates' court decides at the outset that it doesn't have sufficient powers to deal with a charge, the act of referring it up to the Crown Court is a "sending", but if it's already convicted someone (or they've pleaded guilty) and it decides at that point to refer it up, that act is called a "committal". I'm not sure there is a general term that applies in all contexts. Proteus(Talk)09:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know any monogram or cypher (royal or otherwise) that use the same initial twice and facing in opposite directions (for example a capital letter and its mirror image) either back to back (the inverted letter first, when using a left-to-right script) or facing each other (first the usual letter). I'm specifically interested in the Latin alphabet but if you've got examples in other scripts, do include them. I know there's a cursive double L that Louis XIV used. I'd thought there was a double E that some Elizabeth (Elizabeth I?) or other used but I can't find it. Anyway, any example is good and gratefully accepted. 178.51.74.75 (talk) 01:58, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are a couple of examples in the gallery at royal cypher that seem to fit the bill, most obviously that of King Carol II of Romania (not very clear in our photo, but described as "two opposed Cs"). That of King George I of Greece appears to be two crossed Γs (the Greek letter gamma). There are also a couple that don't quite fit your criteria because the letters themselves are symmetrical and so you can't tell what direction they're facing: Sheikh Maktoum bin Rashid Al Maktoum of Dubai (seems to include two Ms) and King Michael I of Romania (four Ms with both reflectional and rotational symmetry). Proteus(Talk)09:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks guys. Is there any theory out there as to how this originated. Would this have originated as an abbreviation of a name being written in two different directions (the right-to-left form being a mirror image of the name)? Problem is I've never ever seen anything like that? Have you? Another possibility: it symbolizes the name (represented by its initials) being "broadcast" in two directions? Speculation. Any actual theory put forward in a reliable source? Also: any idea who first originated this sort of design? How old it is? 178.51.74.75 (talk) 02:42, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"the development of the more stylised royal cypher seems to date from the reign of William and Mary. To emphasise their joint rule, their initials were interlaced and – apparently simply to add symmetry – the first R was reversed."[30] --Lambiam10:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In GoodReads, the book was saud to be originally published in London and Tokyo in 1991.
I tried checking, and the Internet Archive copy of the book states:
The original publication was in 1989, in Nihonggo. It was in 1991 when Kodansha International Ltd. published the book. I originally wanted to ask the question here, but I might let other people know of this concern.
Also, I still can't identify whether the book is fictional or not (i.e. biographical, or a fictional character in nonfictional world). RFNirmala (talk) 13:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The original Japanese version was published in 1989. The translation was originally published in 1991, but under the title The Gambler's Tale (see here). The 1995 version (the "first paperback edition" from Kodansha) corroborates both of these dates, giving the publication date as 1989 and the copyright date for the translation as 1991. Dekimasuよ!14:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently the story of Abraham and Isaac occurs twice in the book. Do these stories agree, and do they belong to the category of traditions in which Isaac was sacrificed?
Temerarius (talk) 02:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The story of the sacrifice of Isaac is only told in Genesis A. In lines 2908–2922, a messenger from God commands Abraham not to slay his remaining son. --Lambiam10:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stout of heart he mounted the high downs, and his son with him, according as Eternal God commanded, until he stood upon the ridge of the high land in the place which the Firm and Faithful Lord had showed him. And there he built a pyre and kindled a flame and bound his son, hand and foot, and laid Isaac, the lad, on the altar, and seized his sword by the hilt. With his own hand he would have slain him, and quenched the flame with the blood of his son. Then a thane of God, an angel from on high, called unto Abraham with a loud voice. In stillness he abode the herald's message and answered the angel. Swiftly the glorious minister of God addressed him from the heavens: "Slay not thy son, dear Abraham, but take the lad from the altar alive. The God of glory is gracious unto him! Great shall thy reward be, Hebrew prince, true meed of victory and ample gifts, at the holy hands of the Heavenly King. The Lord of spirits will bless thee with His blessing because His love and favour were dearer unto thee than thine own son."[31]
There are indeed two passages in that translation Alansplodge linked to, one in section XLI (around lines 2897-2908), and one in section XLVII (starting with lines 397-416). The second seems to be part of a summary of the genealogy of the patriarchs injected within a narrative of the Exodus. Both passages contain the sacrifice story including the divine command to spare Isaac in the end. Fut.Perf.☼10:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many narratives now in the 'Old Testament' are amalgams of oral tales that originally had different variations in different communities, and even after initial redaction may have been further modified later to suit a changing religious and/or political agenda. There is no doubt that the early Canaanites, who included those who later differentiated themselves as Israelites and Judahites, practiced human sacrifice, probably including of firstborns, so extra- (and pre-) biblical variants of the Binding of Isaac story where Jacob was sacrificed probably existed: the eventual biblical version likely reflects a 'policy change' of child sacrifice being abandoned as part of a general distancing from other Caananites, and identity assertion as a separate people (see Canaanite religion#Practices).{The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 10:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC).[reply]
We're talking here, though, about poems in Old English written in the late 10th century CE. The only knowledge its authors would have of ancient Caananite practices would be through the medium of the Old Testament. --Lambiam13:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In RSV Judges 11:30-39, the Israelite warlord Jephthah swore that in exchange for a victory against the Ammonites, the first person who "comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, and I will offer him up for a burnt offering." Sadly, that person was the daughter, whom he loved. She agreed to be sacrificed because of his pledge. "And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had made. She had never known a man. And it became a custom in Israel that the daughters of Israel went year by year to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year." Note: these Ammonites were the Middle Easterners, not the Mesozoic Cephalopods. Edison (talk) 22:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just bought a Treasury bill maturing on 12/31 with one of those brokerages that pay out only the day after. As that will be New Year's Day, my money basically doesn't earn interest for two days, compared with a brokerage that pays out on the day of. Suppose it were a long holiday. That would be money out of reach for even longer. Hardly seems fair. Imagine Reason (talk) 14:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if this is what you are asking about, but in banking there is often a delay between when you deposit funds in a checking account, and when those funds become available for withdrawal. This can be several days if you deposit over a long weekend. Blueboar (talk) 14:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And during that interval, even if merely overnight, the bank can invest the funds in the Money market and collect the interest paid on it. For an individual deposit this will only yield a small amount, but when the yields of all such funds held by the bank are aggregated, the total is significant.
The same applies to funds paid to a solicitor for imminent property purchases and so on. In the UK, for some transactions the solicitor is legally obliged to do so, and pay the interest gained to their client; in others they can keep the money themselves. [Disclosure: my father was a solicitors' chief accountant, and made such investments daily.] {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 10:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Define conflict. There was certainly some competition regarding delimitations of decision-making, that always happens. But what is important in this case is that there was no republican-level RSFSR Communist Party until the very end of the Soviet Union, unlike all other SSRs. Generally speaking power-struggles happened not between governments of administrative units of the USSR but between party organs (state organs implemented party policy, not the other way around). So the management of the RSFSR state government was directly under the Central Committee of the CPSU, the same party body controlling the USSR government. Towards the end stage of the USSR Russian nationalism was increasing in importance, in the sense of wanting more self-rule of RSFSR. The foundation of the Communist Party of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic was the key step in this direction. --Soman (talk) 13:25, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While Russia had its own Supreme Soviet, as Soman notes it didn't have as many independent institutions as the other Union Republics, making it institutionally less powerful than the rest, even while its demographic dominance made Russians dominant throughout the Union. In my mind, this situation was somewhat comparable that of to England and the UK; e.g. Scotland, Wales, and NI have their own devolved parliaments, but there's no devolved English parliament, even while England is rather dominant demographically. Of course, the typical dominance of the Party leadership over both Party and government, at all levels, meant that there weren't frequent conflicts or disputes between the USSR and the RSFSR; there was nothing comparable to the West Lothian question, as far as I'm aware. Both scenarios have grown out of the same basic situation: a powerful core state of several centuries ago was able to conquer and annex adjoining territories, which in the 20th century were given additional autonomy, but there was no history of the core state being separate from the whole polity (because the core state functionally was the whole polity), and thus the top-level politicians didn't give comparable autonomy to the core. See asymmetric federalism for a discussion of the underlying concept. Nyttend (talk) 22:14, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Look, these geographic units are completely arbitrary. You can consider Afghanistan as part of all of these regions, and these regional identities are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If you define 'West Asia' as Greater Middle East, then Afghanistan can be part of it, but let's be clear that the notion of a 'West Asian' region is a construct that only exist in the mind of people outside the supposed region. In terms of Central Asia vs South Asia, Afghanistan doesn't match perfectly in neither, Afghanistan was not directly part of Soviet Union as the rest of Central Asia and was not directly part of British empire as the rest of South Asia. Then the UN georegions is a different story, but UN region allocation is not a particularly important categorization except for UN employees. --Soman (talk) 13:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And it's confusing for UN employees too. WHO places Afghanistan in the ludicrous 'Eastern Mediterranean Region'. OCHA where I work, at least places Afghanistan in the somewhat more sensible 'Asia Pacific' region. (There is a concept called the "One UN" that nobody in the UN believes in.) Hayttom (talk) 00:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And other entities don't put it in Asia Pacific; Australia Post has five international pricing zones (New Zealand, Asia Pacific, US and Canada, UK and Europe, and Rest of the World), and per their zones page, Afghanistan is "Rest of the World", like Iran, but unlike India or Pakistan. I suppose the situation is like that of Germany and Austria: are they Central or Western Europe? See plenty of discussions of this subject at Talk:Germany. Nyttend (talk) 22:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Duckmather:. Ping template won't work if you place nowiki tags around it. I don't know, to be frank. Depends a bit on what criteria of 'culture' you are looking at. Afghanistan is majority Pashtu, in the border areas of Pakistan you'd find a lot of commonalities in terms of food, clothing, language, religion, etc. But what would be the 'cultural' link between Herat and Jaffna? I'm tempted to say that Central Asia is somehow closer, at least in terms of cuisine, but Central Asian socieities are generally much more secularized. Whilst Afghanistan has large Tajik and Uzbek populations my personal understanding is that there isn't the same level of cross-border cultural linkages as with the Pakistan border areas. But I could be wrong here. --Soman (talk) 12:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lottery tickets are sold by "lottery retailers", which are typically not specialized offices but, for example, tobacco shops, gas stations and convenience stores. For example, tickets for Landbrugslotteriet in Denmark are sold by many, diverse retailers.[32] In some countries they are also sold by street hawkers.[33] --Lambiam10:05, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is true now, but historically there have been many offices/stores in Denmark whose sole purpose has been to sell lottery tickets. The Danish word for such lottery sales outlets is “lotterikollektion”. My question is whether there is an equivalent word in English for a shop that only sells lottery tickets. Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 10:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tickets for the National Lottery (United Kingdom) can be bought from newsagents, supermarkets and local grocer's shops, although at the outset in the 1990s, post offices were the main outlets.
As far as I know, none of the English speaking countries ever had shops dedicated to just selling lottery tickets, so they wouldn’t need a word for such shops. Blueboar (talk) 12:53, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When I was in Portugal the streets were full of people selling lottery tickets. I assumed this was normal for countries operating a lottery (basically all of them except Britain). There was also the Totobola, a kind of national football pool which I believed to be widespread in Europe, although I don't know who sold the tickets - the results were announced on the radio at 7 PM on a Sunday night. When the British lottery came in it was controlled almost as much as the football pools, the emphasis being on tickets not being available on the street, and the pools seem to have largely died out. Similar coupons which were not pools were not so restricted - fixed odds football coupons are available in betting shops.[Edit] Totobola is apparently run by the Roman Catholic Church. 2A00:23A8:1:D801:A94B:5D04:D466:F650 (talk) 15:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but that refers to any store selling lottery tickets - which might also (primarily) be a gas/petrol station, a grocery store, a tobacconist, etc. Blueboar (talk) 21:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The lottery distribution network is based on that of the football pools. Nobody is allowed to visit National Lottery headquarters - agents come to winners. Bookmakers were formerly "turf accountants". It was illegal to visit their offices (the only place a bookmaker was allowed to operate was on the racecourse or at a dog track). Off-course credit betting was allowed, but punters had to phone their bets in (or post them). Notwithstanding, punters did visit their local "turf accountant". Every so often offices were raided - advance notice was given by the police of who would be targeted. Bookmakers employed "runners" who would illegally visit factories, hand out betting slips and results and collect cash bets. Pools companies termed these people "collectors" - clients could not visit the pools companies' offices but had to post coupons with the stake for the previous week's losing coupons. Later they were allowed to enclose the current week's stake. This system enabled those who wanted to cut ties with the pools company to stop receiving supplies of coupons through the post - they would send in coupons without money. The companies would then write back to say that because of the clients' "bad debts" they were being removed from the mailing list for coupons. Some collectors visited clients to collect coupons and stakes and they may have had an office clients could visit - Kelly's Post Office London Directory 1976 has an entry for "Vernons Pools: area office (7), 556 Garratt la SW 17". Otherwise, collectors operated much like lottery outlets - they did not advertise, but if you went into their shop you might well see coupons on the counter. One place you would not see football pool coupons was in the betting shops after legalisation. Television was not allowed, so commentary and results came over a telephone line from the Exchange Telegraph Ltd, otherwise known for relaying share prices. Casino bets were settled by cheque. In the nineteenth century the Prince of Wales was involved in the "Royal Baccarat Scandal", when it was alleged the gambling was conducted in a house where gambling was a business (and hence illegal) rather than socially in a private home. 92.29.246.121 (talk) 14:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see a response discussing how it was done in England. It used to be that a broker (the predecessor to stock brokers) purchased the right to sell lottery tickets from the crown. The broker then ran a brokerage, where lottery tickets could be purchased. But, successful brokers didn't require customers to come to them. They hired runners to go to the customers and sell the tickets. Also, specific to your question, there was no requirement that a brokerage could only sell lottery tickets. They certainly ran a successful business to have the income to purchase rights to broker the lottery tickets. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 15:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Such shops appear to exist in at least one US state, in connection with the Ohio Lottery. Growing up, I remember seeing shops with names such as "So-and-so's Lotto", which suggested to me that they were primarily or exclusively retailers of lottery tickets. (My bank account is too small, and my awareness of probability too large, to allow me to patronise such businesses, so I don't know if they sell anything else.) But I've never heard a term that includes them while excluding convenience shops, groceries, etc. Nyttend (talk) 22:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm reading this news article
[35] about 2 men who allegedly spray painted “FREE GAZA” on an Israeli flag at a grocery store. The police are charging them with damage to property, disorderly conduct and hate crimes. I get why they're being charged with damage to property and disorderly conduct, but I'm not sure what part of this is a hate crime. If they had spray painted "kill all the k***s", that would be hate crime. I don't know if a serious political opinion like "free Gaza" is being treated as a hate crime. Or maybe there's more to what happened then was explained in the news article? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The example with the slur is gratuitous (I'd suggest refactoring your question) and we are not going to be able to solve all of the real or philosophical problems involved in the war here, but to answer the question it would make sense to go to the applicable criminal code, which is here. The two are accused of "misdemeanor criminal damage to property", and the applicable law defines this as a hate crime when it involves "the actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, citizenship, immigration status, or national origin of another individual or group of individuals, regardless of the existence of any other motivating factor or factors." Presumably the prosecutors will argue that this applies, but the accused have not been convicted of any crimes yet, so some jury will be tasked with answering the question you pose, or perhaps the accused will plead guilty to lesser charges. Dekimasuよ!03:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Somewhat obviously, the lawyers for the defendant may argue that the request to end the war was not directed to an individual or group of individuals (who would not be able to end the war anyway, whether they want it to end or not), but towards the State of Israel, represented by its flag. The flag was presumably put up to express support of Israel in view of the current conflict, and the spray-painting was clearly intended as a protest against such support, but AFAIK there is no reason to assume that the store employees who put up the flag were Jewish, and even less so that the alleged protesters knew their religion, ancestry, or national origin, which would be a mens rea requirement for this being a hate crime. While it is generally unpredictable how a jury will respond, this specific charge (not by the police, but by prosecutors), unless they know something not revealed in the news article, gives a bit the feeling of throwing things against the wall to see what will stick. --Lambiam08:48, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(a) You wrote, "any country's flag". Last time I heard, the US was still a country. (b) I have a hard time imagining the hypothetical perp being charged with a hate crime. This may, of course, be due to a weakness of my power of imagination. --Lambiam13:56, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no "flag of Gaza" (there are the Palestinian and Hamas flags). Anyway, in U.S. law, a precedent was set in the Bremen flag incident of 1935, when a Nazi flag was destroyed, but at the time it had a somewhat ambiguous legal status in Germany (it certainly wasn't the official main national flag), so a U.S. court ruled that no diplomatic insult had occurred... AnonMoos (talk) 17:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to do with flags, but though Gaza around 1980 was no paradise, Gazans had a large degree of freedom of movement then, and there were no heavily-fortified borders. The difference between then and now is almost entirely due to the effects of decades of attacks on Jews emanating from Gaza... AnonMoos (talk) 21:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you choose 1980? Hamas was founded in 1987, Israeli blockade began in 2005, Hamas Gaza takeover was 2007. But you know that already. There have been decades of attacks on Palestinians emanating from Israel... But you know that too. DuncanHill (talk) 09:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I presume that part of the issue here is that it isn't just "free Gaza" but that "free Gaza" has specifically been spraypainted onto an Israeli flag, which directs it "at" someone much more obviously than spraypainting "free Gaza" onto a local bridge or abandoned building or what-have-you. But to answer your question in general, you may be interested to read this article, which outlines how this sort of thing has gone recently in Canada. -- asilvering (talk) 04:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've been under the impression that the goddess Ishtar is not much attested after the bronze collapse. Not necessarily that the goddess disappeared, but that the name went out of vogue. What late inscriptions are there?
In ancient times, each relevant language had its own adapted version of the deity name (Greek Astarte, Hebrew `Ashtarot, etc). The alphabetic spelling "Ishtar" didn't exist until the 19th-century decipherment of Cuneiform script by modern European scholars. The cuneiform spelling of Ishtar could not have continued in use longer than cuneiform script itself did; according to our article, "The last known cuneiform inscription, an astronomical text, was written in 75 AD. The ability to read cuneiform may have persisted until the third century AD." -- AnonMoos (talk) 19:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there such a thing as a list of authors of the Atlas Van der Hagen? In case this is an easier question: What I really want to know is whether John Ogilby was one of them. Elinruby (talk) 02:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As it's you, I'm presuming the Portway is the one in Rowley Regis, West Midlands. Which would put it here, on 11 Portway Rd (there's a matching hill behind too).
Details such as the shape of the house and roof, the brickwork and placement of the chimney and doors and windows agree, so there can be little doubt it is the same building, unless a very similar building did not survive. (The building at 9 Portway Rd is its mirror image, and 20 Portway Rd is very similar, so more of the same type may have been built.) --Lambiam13:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a specimen of the same type of post card, estimated to be from "circa 1910s".[37] Image searches did not turn up ads or packaging for Fairy Soap, Lyons Tea or Lyons' Extract with matching text and lettering. --Lambiam13:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was amused to notice that the front door advertised Lyons' tea and coffee while the adjacent window advertised that "People who know drink Lyons' Extract" instead. Either Lyons was hoping for a presence in all markets or else they seem to have been undercutting themselves! --142.112.148.225 (talk) 02:39, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tea, coffee, and (coffee & chicory) extract were three different products from J. Lyons and Co.'s extensive range of food products. Tea and coffee are beverages, Lyon's extract was mainly a cooking ingredient. Hardly surprising that a grocery would carry all three. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 11:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any clue who the people in this video are (other than Kimberly Cheatle obviously). I assume they must be high ranking officials and not just random SS agents Trade (talk) 00:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At the Oldknow academy, children were asked whether they believed in Christmas and encouraged to chant "no we don't" in response. The pupils were told at an assembly not to send Christmas cards and that Mary was not the mother of Jesus.
The original source is the "Kershaw Report", I believe (see opening paragraph of the article lede for context):
We are told that in or around December 2013, a Christmas assembly was held during which statements were made that children should not be sending Christmas cards, that Jesus was not born of Mary and that it was unbelievable that Christians believe in the Christmas story; children were encouraged to chant `No, we don't' when asked questions such as `Do we celebrate or believe in Christmas?' and whether they believed that Jesus was born on Christmas day.
The basic idea is that this is portraying "Islamists" disparaging Christianity by disparaging Christmas, I take it. Claiming that Mary was not the mother of Jesus seems a strange way to go about that, though. Going by Mary in Islam and Jesus in Islam, they're both somewhat major figures in the Koran (dozens to hundreds of mentions), and their relationship is clear and no different than in the Christian version. The modern Christmas tradition is such a hodgepodge that it takes practically no effort to pick any number of holes in it, so why come up with something so outlandish?
Maybe this is just a straightforward mistake? Like, someone at the assembly in question did say that, but that someone was a giant ignoramus, or someone else downstream misunderstood or misremembered what was said? Or maybe I'm missing something... which is why I'm posting this.
Double quotation marks are for quotations in general. Single quotation marks are for quotations within quotations. (I believe that in some old forms of English it might have been the other way around, but I'm sure it is this way in most forms of English today.) Georgia guy (talk) 16:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
wp:deny
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The source for the claim that children were told that Jesus was not born of Mary is behind a paywall. Can you quote the relevant passage? 92.29.249.130 (talk) 16:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At the Oldknow academy, children were told at an assembly that they should not send Christmas cards and that Mary was not the mother of Jesus. Children were asked whether they believed in Christmas and encouraged to chant "no we don't".
I'm assuming their source is the report I quoted in the OP, so I skipped straight to that.
Generally speaking, the usual strategy is to flip between single and double at each level, AFAIK. So quotations within quotations use whatever the outer quotation didn't use, and quotations within quotations within quotations go back to whatever the outer quotation did use, and so forth. Using singles for the outer quotation is a bit, but not a lot, unusual in modern writing, I'd say.
In American English, the double quotation marks are on the outside, the singles on the inside. In British English, the opposite is common, but not universal; a habit originating in the late 19th century. There are more languages where single outside – double inside is common (for example Dutch, which has copied British habits). PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Mary and Jesus of Islam differ in a number of ways from the Mary and Jesus of the Bible or Christianity: In the Qur'an, Mary is identified with Miriam of the Old Testament (the daughter of Amram and the sister of Aaron), while Jesus did not die on the cross, but only appeared to do so (reviving the old Docetic heresy). However, there's nothing about Jesus not being the son of Mary, and I don't think that such a belief is mainstream among Muslims, according to any information I have. However, disrespecting non-Muslim holidays is more widespread (some varieties of Sunnism in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. disrespect those Shi`i holidays which are not also practiced by Sunnis). AnonMoos (talk) 21:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One possible explanation is that the author of the report made up the story that the children were told that Mary was not the mother of Jesus, ignorant of their significance and relationship in Islam. --Lambiam22:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Possible, yes, but again, it doesn't make much sense to me that someone simply making stuff up would come up with this, when there's such a wealth of more pertinent and plausible ways to criticize Christmas. The explanation that seems least unlikely to me at this point is that this is a case of Chinese whispers, basically: Something was said at the assembly, and something ended up in the report as a result, but there was so much distortion in between that the sense was largely lost. Especially if the report relied on a single account for this, and if the person giving the account was a child.
If the author made this inflammatory accusation based on unverifiable hearsay, it is just as bad as making it up. In either case they are ignorant about the religion they seek to disparage. Criticism of Christmas as having become a pagan feast in servitude of Mammon is also raised by Christians. Whatever the origin of the story, the reason it was selected for the report must have been that the author knew it would offend the religious sensibilities and draw the ire of a segment of his audience. --Lambiam20:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Inspector Maigret (Rupert Davies) has just walked into a bar and asked for "un fine" and to talk to the patron. It's far too long since I drank in France, was the commissaire asking for a cognac? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 23:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is a brandy: a cognac or possibly one of the others listed on the French Wikipedia [40] (upon translating the page with Google). Modocc (talk) 06:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is conflicting information when, during the Attempted assassination of Donald Trump, the would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks was first spotted on "the roof" or "a roof". While our article currently follows media who claim that he had been spotted on a/the roof at 5:52 p.m., even directly by the Secret Service, other media report that he was climbing on the roof where he shot from at 6:09 p.m. (which makes a lot more sense). It seems possible that Crooks was on another roof first and then climbed from roof to roof. Either way - has the path he took from the ground to his shooting location been somewhat reconstructed by now? I didn't find anything in the news as available online. --KnightMove (talk) 10:30, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems entirely plausible that he climbed on to the roof (perhaps unencumbered by his rifle, but with his rangefinder), climbed down again (to retrieve his [hidden?] rifle and set its range), and then up again to carry out the attack. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 12:48, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)
Crooks actually climbed on the roof ~6:09 p.m., as per many witnesses and reliable sources.
Crooks being on the roof since 5:52 in sight of the Secret Service; the Secret Service not doing anything against him, but leading Trump to the podium; AND Crooks then not firing, although he had so much time to prepare and some 7 min opportunity to shoot at Trump unimpaired - that's total nonsense (and fodder for conspiracy theories).
There is even evidence to deconstruct how that error happened. This BBC article somewhat supports the error, although their own facts in the article make clear what happened:
"Later, around 17:45 local time, Crooks was spotted again, this time by a counter sniper officer around the Agr International building - the one the gunman later scaled up to aim at Trump."
"By 17:52 - 19 minutes before the shooting - the Secret Service was made aware that Crooks was spotted with a rangefinder, and disseminated that information to other officers on site, CBS reported."
So another (!) counter-sniper - not the Secret Service counter-sniper teams who would later aim at Crooks - spotted Crooks around (!) the roof, and at 17:52 the Secret Service was informed about this.
It is my understanding that two different organisations were involved in the maintenance of security, the Secret Service (federal, ie your counter snipers) and a local (?) organisation, be that state or entirely private (the person who initially confronted the assassin, was threatened with the firearm and "dropped" off the roof). It may be possible that the communication between these two entities was grossly deficient. Of course, this is pure speculation in the absence of reliable official information. --2001:871:6A:1B71:B0F9:2533:F61:54B2 (talk) 17:46, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In 1970, Isacc Asimov wrote two short stories, "2430 A.D." and "The Greatest Asset", inspired by the following quotation:
Between midnight and dawn, when sleep will not come and all the old wounds begin to ache, I often have a nightmare vision of a future world in which there are billions of people, all numbered and registered, with not a gleam of genius anywhere, not an original mind, a rich personality, on the whole packed globe.
The above Wikipedia articles on the short stories, and many other on-line sources, attribute this to J B Priestley. However, as far as I can tell, it doesn't appear on any standard list of Priestley quotations (including WikiQuote), but only in connection with the Asimov stories. Did Priestley actually write this? If so, where? If not, did someone else write it? It's unlikely that Asimov made it up himself, but not impossible. 194.73.48.66 (talk) 17:42, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that mentions of Bohnert in connection to deontic logic refer to: Herbert Gaylord Bohnert, "The Semiotic Status of Commands". Philosophy of Science 12:4, 1945, pp. 302–315. It is available online (doi:10.1086/286873) but behind a paywall. He appears to attempt to give a translation of commands to propositional logic. Very roughly, let stand for "Sam eats his veggies" and for "Sam is punished". Then the command "Sam, eat your veggies!", denoted formally as is given the meaning "[Sam eats his veggies] or [Sam is punished]". Or, as Sam's mother might phrase it, "Sam, eat your veggies, or else!". --Lambiam22:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be considered unusual for someone to say "peace be upon him" after mentioning God himself the same way that Muslims say it after mentioning any Islamic figure? – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 19:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The term "peace" in this phrase means "the peace of God". It would be just as strange as to say "May God have mercy upon Him", where "Him" refers to God Himself. --Lambiam22:20, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Baseball Bugs: Although I found the Hall of Fame part to be funny, your repetition of "be a bust" in parentheses makes me think you're trying to make a reference to song lyrics. If that's what it's supposed to be, then I'm afraid I don't get what you're trying to reference here. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 22:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we (species Homo Sapiens) seem to have created hundreds, or even thousands, of Gods in our image (and to our liking). Blessing your multiple fellow gods may be totally civilised if a random cluster of divinities meet in the supermarket. Quite possible, that they only smite, drown, immolate, holocaust or whatever registered believers of their own party. We seem to have no article to the treaties between Yahveh, Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster on negligable genocide. --2001:871:6A:1B71:6D4B:BB6E:1759:BC95 (talk) 14:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But in most (though not all) varieties of Christianity, 'God' is said to comprise a trinity of three persons, including also 'Christ' and 'The Holy Ghost', so persumably Christ could bless The Holy Ghost (etc.). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 20:26, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's the point: the theological contrivance would make that seeming absurdity possible, if it were factual. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 04:09, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Requesting help in ascertaining, What is "official Islam"? to the authors D.B. MacDonald and H. Massé (based on either their individual academic literature or may be they imported term from Bibliography they used or general academic literature)
This question is formed with 'what' instead of 'which' due to it's academic aspect.
Quote from Title: Ḏj̲inn, Encyclopaedia of Islam:
"..II. In official Islam the existence of the d̲j̲inn was completely accepted, as it is to This day, and the full consequences implied by their existence were worked out. Their legal status in all respects was discussed and fixed, and the possible relations between them and mankind, especially in questions of marriage and property, were examined. .."
~ D.B. MacDonald, H. Massé. Title: Ḏj̲inn. Encyclopaedia of Islam New Edition Online (EI-2 English) DOI: Source Editors: P.J. Bearman First-online: 24 Apr 2012 ISSN: 1573-3912 Publisher: Brill. Wikipedia Library link provided at WP:REREQ
Possibly written Islam as defined by trained and educated Ulama, as opposed to more folklorish or popular concepts? There have been some cases of folk Islam elaborations gaining acceptance among scholars of Islamic law... AnonMoos (talk) 11:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article:
Németh, Kinga (2024). "The Jinn – The Culprit of the Arabic World". Különleges Bánásmód, 10, Special issue, 107-122. doi:10.18458/KB.2024.SI.107
contrasts "official (Sunni) Islam" with "vernacular Islam", which incorporates beliefs based on vernacular legends. While the term "official Islam" is not explicitly defined in the article, it is connected in the text to the points of view of "Islamic institutions", "scholars of Islam" and "schools of Islam". --Lambiam13:03, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It means "standard/mainstream/mainline" Islam (coming in Shia and Sunni flavours). As supported by Islamic scholarship, or most of it. Arguably not an appropriate term, especially for the Sunni, any more than "official Protestantism". Johnbod (talk) 14:28, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We use [brackets] to enclose parenthetical phrases that are inside another parenthetical phrase. That is, brackets are for a double parenthetical phrase. But what do we use when there are three levels of parenthetical phrases?? What do we use?? Georgia guy (talk) 11:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're talking in English, right? What I've seen, on the rare occasions where it was necessary, was curved brackets {}: (enclosing [this {enclosing this} thusly]). --Orange Mike | Talk12:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From DPDk, with two levels it is (algunos estudiosos consideran su obra Fortunata y Jacinta [1886-87] la mejor novela española del siglo xix) but in mathematics and chemistry it is reversed [(4 + 2) × (5 + 3)] − (6 − 2). I remember from math class {2 × [3 × (4 + 5)] + 6} . Bracket (mathematics) says:
Square brackets are also often used in place of a second set of parentheses when they are nested—so as to provide a visual distinction.
Georgia_guy -- I think it's as common or possibly even more common (based on what I've seen) to use parentheses within parentheses: (...(...)...). This convention is reasonably clear (though it can be a little bit visually jarring if multiple ")" marks are side-by-side at the end). AnonMoos (talk) 22:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Parentheses may be nested (generally with one set (such as this) inside another set). This is not commonly used in formal writing (though sometimes other brackets [especially square brackets] will be used for one or more inner set of parentheses [in other words, secondary {or even tertiary} phrases can be found within the main parenthetical sentence]).
Why can't every language romanize Russian using scientific transliteration? It would eliminate irritating conventions using ⟨y⟩ for iotated vowels and ⟨sh⟩ for Ш etc. and reflect language's Slavicness better. --40bus (talk) 19:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Languages do not romanize. Did you mean, why can't publications in every language use scientific transliteration for Russian terms (presumably mainly proper nouns)? Many languages do not use a Latin alphabet, and in several of those that do some of the transliterations use letters not in their alphabet. Even if it solves a problem, it addresses only a minute part of the general problem; most non-Latin scripts do not have a "scientific" transliteration, and many romanization schemes rely on the English pronunciation of letters. --Lambiam21:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
40-bus -- We discussed this exact same topic not too long ago. My basic answer is the same as before: Most English-language speakers have been rather resistant to the use of diacritics (except as optional marks of sophistication for some semi-unassimilated loanwords borrowed from a few foreign languages which use the Latin alphabet, especially French). In the case of Finnish, Finnish speakers are accustomed to diacritics, due to the use of ä and ö in the orthography of their language, and there's no native Finnish way of spelling the "sh" and "zh" sounds, so there was no problem with introducing š and ž into Finnish practices for transcribing foreign words. However, none of that applies to English. The average native English-speaker reading an article about Eastern Europe, if he cares at all about how words transcribed from Cyrillic are pronounced, wants a rough practical approximate guide based on customary English spellings, and does not want to worry about strange little marks flying around various letters. (And that's assuming that his news source would even include the diacritics -- in the days of Wade-Giles, its diacritics and apostrophes were almost always omitted in mass-market English-language newspapers, as has also been explained before.) AnonMoos (talk) 22:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But West Slavic names usually appear with diacritics in English texts. If Russian used Latin alphabet, then there were no irritations and the alphabet would be similar to Czech alphabet. Thus I hope that Russian will eventually switch to Latin alphabet in next 30 years. --40bus (talk) 06:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You may well hope, but there is no chance that Russian changes alphabets. Cyrillic is perfectly adapted to the language, has been in use for centuries, and is known by the entire Russian population. Why should there be a switch, except to please a few eccentrics in foreign countries who don't even speak the language? Xuxl (talk) 09:34, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And most English speakers generally ignore the diacritics on West Slavic names. They get printed, but the average reader doesn't give a shit about them. My question is "why can't 40bus accept the fact that different languages are different?" Seriously, you keep asking questions phrased in such a way as to suggest that you know best and that any language that dares to deviate from your preferred methods is in some way deficient or wrong. STOP DOING THAT. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 15:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting that you refer to "West Slavic" and then only mention the Czech alphabet. Do you think Polish orthography, which also uses digraphs, insufficiently reflects the language's Slavicness?
If Russia does after all decide to switch to the Latin alphabet, it may actually go for the English style, with ⟨sh⟩, ⟨y⟩, etc. That style is more internationally recognisable (which languages that chose diacritics weren't too concerned about when they did so), would make Russian orthography distinct from those of related languages, and already serves as the mainstream standard for romanizing the language. On the other hand, scientific transliterations, as the attribute scientific suggests, seek linguistic precision but not necessarily user-friendliness. --Theurgist (talk) 22:13, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They could. It would be more recognisable for native English users, but wouldn't be much more helpful to native Latin alphabet users who aren't native English users. A user-friendly transliteration system must be tuned to the target language, otherwise it isn't any more user-friendly than a scientific system. Russian ш is transliterated as š for a Czech or Croatian audience, sz for Polish, sch for German, sh for English, sj for Dutch or Norwegian etc.
The problem of English-based transliterations is that they only work well for sounds that not only exist in English, but are also the standard pronunciation of some letter combination, which, given the chaotic nature of English spelling, is far from given. (Zh is a remarkable counter-example. The sound /ʒ/ occurs in English, but the zh digraph doesn't; yet it's understood.) PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pinyin and the Hepburn system, both pretty much universal romanization standards, already use ⟨sh⟩ for "sh"-like sounds. If Russian switches to Latin, other Latin-written languages will no longer adapt Russian names but will cite them as they are. A ⟨sh⟩ would then be a clearer indicator of something going on than a diacritic over a ⟨s⟩, which, as discussed, would be ignored by many and often even omitted. --Theurgist (talk) 00:49, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the other hand, ch is in the Slavic languages using that digraph (Czech, Slovak, Polish) used for /x/, as it is used in German, Dutch and the Celtic languages. Using ch for /tʃ/ in transcriptions from Russian is more confusing for people who expect /x/ than using č. Over here, the newspapers usually get the diacritics right for Slavic languages. (Here, Russian /tʃ/ is usually transcribed tsj.) PiusImpavidus (talk) 16:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An American man and an American woman are "two Americans". This is gender-neutral and unambiguous. An Englishman and an Englishwoman are "two English". However, this is not that well understandable as it is not your first connotation when you hear "two English". What is talked about here? A translation from Spanish "to English"? Is the girlfriend of a Scottish boy "too English" for his grandmother? Is there a better, unmistakable way to address two mixed-gender people from England? --KnightMove (talk) 10:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When not in England, the term "Brits" (albeit in this particular case, as you say, imprecise) is something I've heard commonly used and used myself. Mikenorton (talk) 16:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little curious about this. When I hear someone described as a Brit I generally assume they're English; I don't really think of the Scots or the Welsh and certainly not the Northern Irish. Is that the common understanding? --Trovatore (talk) 20:30, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I worked in Norway as an ex-pat for over five years and the Brits included Scots and Welsh as far as I can remember, but that's just a personal recollection, no citations available, sorry. Mikenorton (talk) 22:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not aware of a generic & specific term for two people of mixed gender. The word "couple" may be useful, but it does not define two random people. Two Americans, two Britons, two Spaniards (or whatever) can be any combination of genders / sexes. And two Viennese könnten ja ein Paar Würschtel sein. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you drawing a distinction between thigs like " there's a couple of people standing in that corner" and "there's a couple standing in that corner"? Because I would say the first about any 2 people but the second only if they were romantically linked. Except I would also say "there's a couple in that corner" as a response to the question "how many people are in this room?" Again, without regard to their sexes, genders, or relationship statuses.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 20:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that would normally be considered non-standard, though. There are some (most?) demonyms which are both adjective and noun (e.g. American/an American, German/a German), some which have different words for each (e.g. Spanish/a Spaniard, Danish/a Dane) and some which are (generally) only used as adjectives (e.g. French, Irish, Chinese). Generally those in the third category need "person" added to make a noun phrase (or "-man"/"-woman" in some cases), and that's where I'd put "English". There seems to be a slight shift towards treating the third category the same as the first category and using the adjective as a noun (e.g. I've seen "a Chinese" instead of "a Chinese person"), which is presumably why there are a few instances of "two English" being used, but it still sounds odd to my (British English) ear. (Admittedly, it does sound a little less odd in the plural. "I saw two English walking down the street" would be odd, but "I saw an English walking down the street" would be downright bizarre.) Proteus(Talk)15:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Possibly the closest we can come in standard-speak is "The English are a curious race", or "You English are despicable". Not even "some English" works for me.-- Jack of Oz[pleasantries]15:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, here in Australia we also have the useful word "pom", sometimes expressed more fully as "pommy bastard", especially when an Ashes series is underway. Although the word almost always refers to male English people.HiLo48 (talk) 23:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like it, but I've never heard that one. There are expressions used throughout our wide brown land, but then there are some others that have currency only within much smaller communities. The Aussie way is to use such little-known expressions on unsuspecting strangers, whether they be from other parts of the country or overseas, causing the strangers befuddlement. They ask for a translation, and this immediately marks them as "not a local", and hence automatically suspect until such time as they can earn a degree of acceptability. That may take a few minutes, or a few generations, or anywhere in between. Xenophobia works on many levels, not just between nations. -- Jack of Oz[pleasantries]22:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't have so be an immigrant. "Pom" works for visitors too. I believe our King is visiting later this year. He will be called a pom by plenty of Aussies when he's here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiLo48 (talk • contribs) 11:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey friends, having another puzzle over a wördle.de answer. Yesterday the solution was "DRONE" which has left me baffled. Any help on what the German language means by this word please? All I get from de.wikipedia are proper names. Thanks! 70.67.193.176 (talk) 22:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could the alternative spelling "Drone" have become common in German in recent years? Given how much has been written, discussed, etc. about these unmanned flying machines in the past decade, I wouldn't be surprised. It's now become the standard term in French. Xuxl (talk) 07:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In my experience, it hasn't. "Drohne" and "drone" are not just different spellings, but also pronounced differently. I guess many German speakers may be more or less familiar with the English term too, but in my perception at least the German term is still the one commonly used, in both meanings of the word (bees and flying devices). Fut.Perf.☼08:12, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Short of a misspelling, the only think I can think of is the English word "drone" (as in "droning sound") that is sometimes used when talking about music. It doesn't seem sufficiently common to count as a loanword, though. In principle, it could also be the plural of a word *Dron, but that doesn't exist either. For a German (not English) word *Drone, the pronunciation would be the same as Drohne — the existing word Krone ("crown") is a perfect rhyme. --Wrongfilter (talk) 12:42, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As a native speaker (as is Fut.Perf.), I have never seen the AngloSaxon word "drone" used as a loan word in colloquial German. A typo can be excluded, as Wördle is a constructed linguistic game.
We're all native speakers here ;-) I entered "DRONE" into wördle today and it was accepted, which means that it is in the database. I haven't found out how the database was created and what is or is not in it (misspellings seem unlikely but not entirely impossible). Maybe the creator is a Sunn O))) fan and put Drone (Doom) in by hand... --Wrongfilter (talk) 18:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The unmanned aerial vehicle is supposed to be spelled Drohne in German (like the male bee), but I suspect that the English spelling without the h is common in unedited writing. Even de:Unbemanntes Luftfahrzeug once uses the word Hubschrauberdrone spelled like that. —Mahāgaja · talk10:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm typically using "raise" as my starting word in English Wordle. Interestingly I could also use it in wordle.at and I still have no idea what it is supposed to mean in German. I've switched to a more regular German word (Saite) in the meantime. -- 79.91.113.116 (talk) 15:02, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for all the discussion. It's not the first time this database has been weird, so I guess that's what's going on here. "drone" was indeed the solution, it tells you :) 70.67.193.176 (talk) 01:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that Drône is an archaic spelling; the current French orthography is Dronne. Since the Saône is a much more significant and better-known river than the Dronne, presence in the Wördle db as the Germanized spelling of archaic DRÔNE is IMO not a satisfactory explanation. --Lambiam09:34, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Hebrew Bible has "explanations" as to why various people were given their names which are not always etymologically accurate; if such an explanation involves a similar-sounding word, I guess it could be a pun. The episode of Susanna and the Elders added to the Greek version of the book of Daniel has two specific puns on Greek tree names... AnonMoos (talk) 06:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have seen a book titled something like Puns: the foundation of writing. Much of early writing uses homophones for concepts that cannot easily be pictured. —Tamfang (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Writing hard-to-draw words by substituting a drawing of easy-to-draw words is known as the "Rebus principle" (scan down in article Rebus)... AnonMoos (talk) 19:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If all English sentences had their word order perfectly reversed, could this still be a conceivably natural language? Or, would this new Hsilgne language have any unnatural features that would make it unique among other languages? 2600:8800:718D:8D00:D4AB:BD6F:4954:2F7 (talk) 04:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For almost any order between several connected syntactical parts, such as a verb (V) with a subject (S) and an object (O), or a noun (N) with an adjective (A), there are languages whose grammar prescribes that order, so we have VSO languages, SOV languages, OSV languages, and so on. English is an SVO language, so English reverse would be an OVS language - a rare, but not non-existent type. Likewise, English is an AN language ("blank card"), but there are many NA languages, such as French ("carte blanche"). For more, see Linguistic typology, Word order and Head-directionality parameter. Some languages (e.g. Turkish) do many things in the reverse order of English; for exampe, "I don't know the man who stole your book" becomes "Book-your stealing man-the know-not-I". There is nothing unnatural about the word orders that reverse the word order of English. Therefore it is IMO a reasonable guess that kids growing up immersed in an environment where English reverse is spoken will pick it up just like they would pick up any natural language. --Lambiam07:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OVS OSV isn't unnatural or forbidden, but it's typologically disfavored as the main default word order in a language -- it's the rarest of the six basic word order types by a significant margin... AnonMoos (talk) 07:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I meant "OSV" (I had problems reversing just three letters!). I'm sure that OSV is viable as a language system, but it's very strongly typologically disfavored, as I meant to say. If you round to the nearest percentage, then the occurrence of both SVO and SOV among the world's languages is in the solid double digits, VSO is almost in the double digits, while the closest integer percentage to express the occurrence of OSV languages is 0%. AnonMoos (talk) 13:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do average English speakers in countries that have metricated almost everything (such as Australia and New Zealand) use word "kilometre" in expressions to indicate an unspecified distance, such as "kilometres away", "a few kilometres", "several kilometres", "thousands of kilometres", in daily lives? --40bus (talk) 19:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if Canada qualifies, but the answer here is "mostly no". I mean, you could say it and be perfectly understood, but I'd bet more than half the people you'd meet would use "miles". Kilometers sounds formal and scientific, almost stuffy. Light travels 300,000 kilometers a second, but that town is twenty miles from here. I think younger folks tend to favour the metric more, so perhaps this is changing. Matt Deres (talk) 01:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. In Canada you'd say about a family relocating to some far-away suburb: "they moved miles away from here", not "kilometres away" unless you want to specify a precise distance, which you would then include in the sentence. Xuxl (talk) 07:32, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My international traveler yoga instructor sometimes fashions himself a bit of a linguistic wit, and insists on saying rather than "inch your fingers forward", "millimeter your fingers forward", which is at the very least kinda silly. I stopped saying anything about his dumb jokes a while ago - he's a good teacher and leader, but oy. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇17:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is "several kilometres" ever used? Is it common to say "a several-kilometre-long traffic jam". In Finnish is common to say "useita kilometrejä". --40bus (talk) 15:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What syllable do they stress? When I was growing up I learned /kɪlˈɑːmɪtər/ but now I mostly say /ˈkɪloʊˌmiːtər/ (with some of the weak vowels probably devolving into indistinct schwa-ishness in practice). I hear both in the wild but tend to think of the first-syllable stress as "more precise" or "more sciency". I'm willing to allow the possibility that this might be a slight affectation. --Trovatore (talk) 18:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sample of one, but I've always favoured stressing the second syllable (not the first and/or third), to avoid the word sounding like a device to meter kilos. I prefer to stress the antipenultimate syllable in names or words that derive (or might derive) from Greek. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 94.2.67.235 (talk) 20:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've noticed that many classic-format jokes, especially as found in joke books, do something odd with the tense: they have a tendency to remove the "to be" portion and I'm not sure what that would be called or what the purpose is. Example: "Two men in a barbershop having their hair cut..." rather than the more standard "Two men are in a barbershop having their hair cut...". Is it just for brevity and flow? The setup to a joke typically needs to be executed quickly - is that all it is? Is there a term for this kind of formation? Matt Deres (talk) 01:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you give a full sentence exemplifying the phenomenon? There is nothing odd with the tenses in "Two men in a barbershop having their hair cut were startled by a strange sound" - although I'd insert a couple of commas. Also, "Two men in a barbershop having their hair cut" is a cromulent image caption. --Lambiam12:37, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's cromulent, but I would consider it marked. Like, someone made the decision to leave out the are. Your point about it being a good image caption is kind of what I'm getting at: image captions can only be evaluated within the context of the image they're captioning: this reads like an image caption, but... there's no image. Maybe I'm hypersensitive to it; I've been studying jokes for several months now and there are other stylistic choices common to jokes that are unusual elsewhere, like leaving out articles: "Man walks into a talent agent..." rather than "A man walks into a talent agent...". What I'm wondering is if there's a more specific term for this kind of thing than ellipsis. Matt Deres (talk) 20:08, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably not. One style manual I'm familiar with just uses "elliptical style" to describe the omission of articles in assembly directions ("Glue wings to fuselage"), recipes ("Pour batter into 12-inch cake pan"), and the like. Deor (talk) 20:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't find other terms for this, but I found this grammar page that gives examples of leaving out unstressed words [[[48]]. I've seen standup comedians drop them too, for brevity and to command attention. Modocc (talk) 21:12, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think sometimes jokes have their own formulaic grammars. In German, it's very common for jokes use verb-first order, something ordinarily reserved for questions and if-clauses (with the if suppressed). So a joke beginning "A horse goes into a bar" would start in German "Kommt ein Pferd in eine Kneipe", which outside of a joke could only mean "Does a horse go into a bar?" or "If a horse goes into a bar". It is standard German to say "Es kommt ein Pferd in eine Kneipe", but in jokes you leave out the "es" (roughly = dummy "there"). —Mahāgaja · talk10:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A question I was reminded of reading the thread about reverse English: in the OSV and VSO order the predicate group is separated by the subject group? Isn't that a problem? Is the notion of "predicate" with verb and object (and other complements) belonging to it universal? Isn't it more natural that words belonging to the same syntactic group be close together by default? Do OSV and VSO languages have that notion of predicate?
VSO is of course the word order (is "worder" a word?) used in Ancient Hebrew, Classical Arabic, etc.: does the predicate group (if it does exist in those languages) being split have any implication? I've noted that the verbal forms in the past (the non-past is more complicated) have exactly the same order for the suffixed pronouns: verb + subject suffix + object suffix. I've also read somewhere that Ancient Egyptian cycled through various word orders at different stages in its long history. Is that true? Is there a natural way in which word order changes? 178.51.74.75 (talk) 02:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thus, Caesar's hae permānsērunt aquae diēs complūrēs, with hae "these" separated from aquae "flood waters", means not "These floods remained for several days" but "This time, the flood waters (unlike the previous ones) remained for several days."
V2 languages (including the Germanic languages other than English) also regularly break up the predicate. The concept of predicate (first definition) isn't used in the traditional grammar of every language and not all modern theories of syntax use the binary distinction of subject vs. predicate. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even in English, the predicate may be broken up. "The devil is in the details" is traditionally analyzed as subject "the devil" + predicate "is in the details". By asking, "Is the devil in the details?", the subject is transposed to a position inside the predicate. --Lambiam12:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In modern linguistic theories, what 178.51.74.75 calls the "predicate" is often known as a verb phrase. In the four-word sentence "Who do you love?", there are two separate breaches of the boundaries of the verb phrase. The exact answer to 178.51.74.75's question would depend on the details of specific linguistic theories (and there's probably a lot more data and linguistic discussion about VSO than OSV)... AnonMoos (talk) 17:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The practice of referring to senseless chatter as yapping or yapping on (about something) doesn't seem new to me. Of course, the word's entry on the list of Generation Z slang points out that it dates back hundreds of years, but still, its use in its modern sense seems to have been popular for at least a bit longer than some sources might have us believe. Here's a couple of examples I can recall from the top of my head:
Here it is used in a play from 1953, in the sense of needless talking. Perhaps it is used on TikTok to refer to any speech act. --Lambiam18:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Every generation rejuvenates old customs, mores, folkways, and linguistic usages, and then gives itself credit for having invented them. Gen Z is no different from any other generation in this respect. --Trovatore (talk) 21:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, as a Gen Z'er, I don't think I've ever actually seen any of us actually claim invention of the term, even if we use it a lot. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough. GalacticShoe (talk) 16:21, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, of course not. When I was a teenager in the '80s, the fashionable word for "very good" was awesome, but awesome has had the meaning awe-inspiring since the 17th century. It wasn't a new coinage (like, say, skibidi is), but we still managed to make it "our" word, and it was embarrassing to hear a grownup try to use it the way we did. —Mahāgaja · talk09:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The verb "suspend" seems to be undergoing a change, particularly in relation to political campaigns. Once, it meant that a campaign was being halted temporarily, but not permanently. Now, we read @ Kamala Harris#2024 presidential campaign:
On July 21, 2024, incumbent president and presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden suspended his campaign for re-election in 2024 with Harris and endorsed her as the Democratic presidential nominee.
Yet, everything I've heard and read tells me Biden has abandoned his campaign, permanently and irrevocably. It's over. It's not just suspended. I've also seen this language with previous contenders who pulled out. Nobody believed they were just re-grouping or whatever, and intended to mount a reinvigorated campaign in the near future. No, they were withdrawing permanently. It seems to be a purely American phenomenon, as far as I can tell.
Wiktionary:suspend tells me @ Definition 3, that suspend can mean:
To discontinue or interrupt a function, task, position, or event, e.g. to suspend a thread of execution in a computer program.
That seems to be the only case where suspension can mean permanent cessation. All the other definitions are about temporary cessation. Computer jargon is often the most impenetrable rubbish, with expressions meaning things that are completely at odds with their natural meanings (eg. client). So, why is this computer jargon now being trotted out for use in political contexts? Is it that words that don't mean what they seem to mean are an obvious and natural fit for politics? </cynicism>-- Jack of Oz[pleasantries]21:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this relates to some obscure aspect of American campaign-finance law. If you actually officially drop out, it triggers some sort of legal requirement or complication that "suspending" the campaign does not. So campaigns are almost never officially terminated, always suspended. I don't remember the details but I'm sure someone else can help you find them, or this might be enough of a clue by itself. --Trovatore (talk) 22:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This reminds me of a question I asked once on some refdesk; I think it was about Ruth Ellis. The article went into some detail about the possibility of a "reprieve", ultimately not granted.
Now to me a "reprieve" is a temporary suspension of the sentence, essentially the same thing as a "stay". But it was explained to me that the authorities had no option to actually commute her sentence, but they could have stayed it indefinitely, which is the sort of reprieve that was intended in the article. --Trovatore (talk) 23:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In US presidential campaigns in recent years, especially during primary season, it has become customary for a candidate to say they are "suspending" their campaign when it's obvious they have no chance of winning. There could be legalistic nuances to that, as Trovatore indicates. In the case of Biden, he's not resigning as president (at least not yet), and if Harris suddenly decides against running, Biden could still say, "Here I am!" ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 00:14, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an Atlantic article that deals with the subject. It's a "gift" article that should be de-paywalled for the next couple weeks (sorry future readers of the archive).
Financially, the benefits of a suspension are even more important. "By not officially terminating his campaign, a candidate can continue to raise money to retire debt," ABC News' Domenico Montarao explained after Herman Cain similarly announced the suspension of his campaign in December. "But a candidate would not be ALLOWED to terminate unless they paid off their obligations and debts."
No, those are two different campaigns. When fundraising, the precise wording is legally important, and in many jurisdictions it's often illegal to divert donations given for cause A to cause B, even if A is defunct and they are linked in some way. I actually served on a Crown Court jury (in the UK) where this was a background factor in the case. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195}
As I understood it, picking Harris allowed the Democrats to retain most of their collected donations, but I didn't understand all of the details. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the same site I linked above advises "It’s worth noting that “what” can be used in place of “which” it’s just more informal if you were to do so." AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:24, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you have told someone there are only two options, chicken soup and tomato soup, it sounds IMO a bit peculiar if you then ask, "What soup shall I get for you?". At least to me, "Which soup shall I get for you?" sounds better. --Lambiam17:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Phrases like "which one" and "which answer" often follow multiple choices too. For example, "Our sides are A, B, C and D, which one would you like?" is more natural than substituting "what one" and it would appear that Google's Ngram viewer confirms this. [50] Quoting the above citation: "We may already be presented with a list of potential answers, and we’re just asking someone to clarify which one applies to them." Of course, "what" is definitely used when asking open-ended questions such as:"We have A,B, C and more, what would you like?", although I think it's natural to ask "Which one would you like?" even then... Sentence order matters, compare: "What dressing would you like? We have..." to "We have... Which one would you like?". Modocc (talk) 17:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are there apps or any software, that can identify the native language of a speaker currently speaking in a non-native language (e.g. English)?
I suspect Google-Translate can't do this, unless the text is written. If it's spoken using microphone, Google-Translate can't identify the language, even when spoken by a native speaker.
So you're asking if there's software that can identify someone's accent, if they're speaking English with a French/Italian/German/Swedish/Danish/Finnish/Norwegian/etc/etc/etc accent? That sounds like a big ask. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even bigger than one thinks...for example, people in France or Germany do speak with at least a little hint of their local accents (as do English speakers...Mancunian, Liverpudlian etc.)...irl, you rarely will encounter these stereotypical "accent speakers" (Maurice Chevalier) which are propagated by media. So you would need an even finer mesh to be able to differentiate between Parisian, Bavarian, or Berlinish accents/sociolects. Even AI might be a little overwhelmed by that. Lectonar (talk) 15:01, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that in the last ten years or so, genuine French and German people on British TV have taken to using increasingly comic accents. There's an alleged Frenchman called "Fred Serieuse" or somesuch who sounds like Inspector Clouseau on a very bad day. DuncanHill (talk) 23:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess AI may overcome it, by listening to millions of speeches already known (or already defined) to be spoken in a given "typical" accent, say a "British" accent defined in advance to be a "typical British" accent. Thus AI may build a list of typical features of that typical accent. The same may be done for every other typical accent defined in advance, e.g. a "typical Mid-west American" accent, and so forth. After building a list of say 200 accents defined in advance to be "typical", the next step AI should take, is to identify - how close to a given typical accent - our own accent is. All of that may help identify in what accent we speak English, whether our accent is British or American or French or Chinese or Swahili or whatever. HOTmag (talk) 15:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The number of "main" accents depends on our choice: For example we can define a list of eight "main" typical accents: Chinese, Hindi, Spanish, French, Arabic, Bengali, Portuguese, Russian. All depends on what we define in advance to be "main". Then, AI should compare our own accent with this list only, and the output should be something like: "The typical accent closest to your own accent is Chinese", even if I'm a native English speaker, because English is not on the specific selected list defined in advance. In my previous response, I suggested a list of 200 accents defined in advance to be: "[main] typical accents". HOTmag (talk) 23:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are local accents too, right? I mean, many people can within their own region pinpoint the exact village a speaker comes from. One village sounds significant different from the next, just three kilometres away. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can statistically analyse the speech:
How is each phoneme pronounced exactly? Part of this is accent, part is voice, part is random variation, so there's a limit to the amount of information you can extract from that.
What's prosody like? To what extend is it stress timed, syllable timed or mora timed? There's a continuum in that. Does the speech appear tonal? We can assign numbers to that.
How are words chosen? For example, English often has pairs of synonyms, one from Germanic, one from Romance, and the speaker may have a preference for one of them.
Look at syntax. Not only the errors, but also the ratio of alternative constructions both grammatical in the language. For example, English allows preposition + pronoun (in which) and a pronominal adverb (wherein) as alternatives, with the former far more common. If the speaker prefers the latter, chances are he's Dutch (or a lawyer).
Also, the question is about finding the native language of the speaker, not the accent. A person from Amsterdam speaking English has a different accent than one from Antwerp speaking English, although their native languages are the same.
So, you have to record enough speech to get statistics with sufficiently small error bars, collect similar statistics for a large number of accents, each belonging to some native language, then you can compute a score for how well the speech fits a particular native language. You first have to find the accent, then the language and there are more accents, so you need more statistics.
It's just statistics, no intelligence needed, artificial or otherwise (some intelligence may be required for tagging the recordings). But then, AI is just a huge pile of statistics with software calculating correlations. Collecting the statistics may be a challenge and I doubt a suitable corpus is available to make this work well. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:18, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the short answer is no. There is no currently functional app to detect accents. It could exist in the future, but even if an AI could utilize the existence of millions of youtube videos there would still be a lot of arbitrary positives or errors, since in the end of the day each human has a unique way of speaking and speech changes over time. Now there would be significant interest for such an app for forensic investigations for Immigration authorities, who has a lot of problems with identifying 'true' geographic origins of individuals. See [51], Language analysis for the determination of origin. --Soman (talk) 10:36, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
using past perfect verbs with dates in the same sentence
Should past perfect verbs be used in a sentence beginning with the year that a past date happened? I was copyediting this article's history section and found the use of "had" repetitive. When looking into when and when not to use them, I was stuck on the appropriateness of using past perfect in a sentence like "By the end of the financial year in 1874, 1,100 pounds had been spent in construction, of an estimated total of 13,200 pounds." Thank you for your help! Decsok (talk) 18:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Entirely appropriate. According to Pluperfect (aka past perfect) the tense relates 'to an action that occurred prior to an aforementioned time in the past'. You have a textbook example. Starting from a specific past moment (EoFY 1874), it then refers to one or more preceding events (x pounds had been spent). Alternatively, it could have said 'In FY 1874, x pounds were spent', thus not splitting the spending events from the end of financial year. -- Verbarson talkedits19:02, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If money had been spent on the same project in earlier financial years, the alternative formulation is not equivalent. It could be that 300 pounds were spent in construction in FY 1873, and a further 800 pounds in FY 1874. Then, by the end of FY 1873, 300 pounds had been spent in construction, which, by the end of FY 1874, had grown to a whopping 1,100 pounds, but in FY 1874 only 800 pounds were spent. --Lambiam00:24, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the names of four Taiwanese cities, Taipei (臺北), Taichung (臺中), Tainan (臺南) and Taitung (臺東), it can be seen that they share the same first character (臺 Tai) and the second one indicates their positions in relation to the island of Taiwan (north, center, south and east respectively). What I'm asking is why the "positional" character is the second one and is not the first? I'm not a speaker of Chinese but, from what I know about it, I would be expecting a scheme like North-Tai, Center-Tai, South-Tai and East-Tai, not the opposite. Can someone explain this situation to me? Are there other examples like this? Thank you! 79.35.53.87 (talk) 00:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On pg 2 of Budge's Book of the Dead lexicon, where is the reference? "Au-a", the "god of the extended arm." I'd like to see that page of papyrus. It sounds like a famous Exodus-related phrase. Deuteronomy 4:34 and 5:15 "with a mighty hand and outstretched arm."
Temerarius (talk) 03:01, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have access to the scripts of future episodes of Parineeti; for all we know they may even not yet have been written. Keeping the audience in suspense is a major trick in the scriptwriters' book for ensuring continued high ratings. I'm so sorry that the uncertainty makes you angry. May I recommend, for your peace of mind, that you switch to watching serials that do not involve murder plots. --Lambiam09:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am 😡 Because I am Unable to Sleep Peacefully because When is Dumb Director going to Tell Dumb Neeti to Remember that Dam DNA 🧬 Evidence can Prove that Pari & Parvati are Same etc? 49.205.118.129 (talk) 13:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Director does not tell Actors. Actors follow Script. Script is wriiten by Smart Scriptwriters. Smart Scriptwriters keep Dumb Audience in Suspense. Dumb Audience keeps watching. Smart Audience finds Something Better to do. --Lambiam15:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. 😡 You still did not answer my question about how I can sleep peacefully etc?
The only question you asked was, "How long Do We have To wait". The Reference desk is not a forum for debate. Apparently, you do not understand the role of the director. You may as well demand an apology from your TV set. --Lambiam20:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The director is not reading this. I suggest you write to the showrunner. If it is affecting your sleep, try ignoring television for a month. —Tamfang (talk) 23:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
😡 It is Impossible for Me to ignore That Dumb Tv Program.
I'm really confused about Eastern Football Netball League. What is meant by "netball" here? That article rather unhelpfully says they added "Netball" to the name "recognising netball as a key part of the league structure", but says nothing else at all about netball. Does "netball" just mean netball (the throwing-based court sport), or is "netball" a name for some variant of Australian rules football (that article says nothing about nets or netball)? If it's the former, I guess this means that the sports clubs operate both an aussie-rules team and a netball team (in a manner like a multi-sports club)? -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk10:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is referring to the game of netball, very similar to basketball. On the EFNL website, you will find teams and schedules for football games and, separately, netball games. You will also find the current rulebooks for each. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 13:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Football Netball cubs exist in a lot of country towns in the parts of Australia where Australian football is popular. They are a pooling of resources to support both sports. The men play football. The ladies play netball. Lots of juniors play both sports too .it's a social club for the whole family. The final sentence of the OP's question has it pretty right. HiLo48 (talk) 11:47, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the video of New Order's "Tutti Frutti" there's a young woman playing a dancer who appears throughout the video and is a central character in it. She's obviously the main dancer. When there's dancing the camera is centered on her, although there's usually a few other female dancers around her. She has long brown hair. Despite her importance in the video I could find nothing about her at the usual places (Imdb, etc.) Various AI assistants I've asked return nothing. Do you know of other sources for information about this video? Or can you recognize the woman? For example she's at 1m08-1m13, 1m42-2m09, etc. 178.51.74.75 (talk) 00:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This site names one Katja Škofic. (Google Translate: The group New Order recorded the video for their single Tutti Frutti in the premises of TV Slovenija, in which, in addition to the Italian actor Ricky Tognazzi, the Slovenian dancer and actress Katja Škofic appears.)--Wrongfilter (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What are the links to Billboard's Digital Song Sales Chart and Billboard's Country Digital Song Sales Chart for the first week of October 2023? Thanks. Bob K31416 (talk) 15:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very helpful. I was looking for a cover of "I Won't Back Down". Using your links as a starting point, I found it for the week of Oct 14, 2023 for Digital Song Sales at #10 [52] but not for Country Digital Song Sales (#6 was the supposed place). Bob K31416 (talk) 18:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For country, I think I found what I was looking for. It looks like the country link in your message is for "Hot Country Songs", which apparently is different from "Country Digital Song Sales" (see [53] p. 8). At the latter is the "I Won't Back Down" cover at #6. Bob K31416 (talk) 06:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Pratap555: If you don't understand the explanation in the decline notice, you should click the "Ask us a question" blue link in the draft decline message, to ask at the AfC help desk. RudolfRed (talk) 01:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The implied question is, "Can you please help me find sources to establish the notability of this film"? (In particular, sources with significant coverage of the topic, not mere mentions, but per Wikipedia:Notability (films) a major award would also do.) --Lambiam10:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As long as the text is understandable and does not violate policy, this should not an issue for reviewers deciding whether to accept or decline a submitted draft. But you're welcome to improve it as you see fit. --Lambiam20:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"...ingeniously uses a simple idea—a leaking tap – to deliver a profound message about water conservation. Through its minimalist approach." That sounds like it was lifted from a movie review somewhere. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 23:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you prove this? If not, it is skirting very close to calling the editor either incapable of writing a cohesive, comprehensible sentence or a flat-out plagiarist.Maineartists (talk) 12:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, not only very adjacent to plagiarism, but also favourably judgemental and therefore not NPOV: "ingeniously", "profound". {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 17:42, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do any of you guys know any information about the 1973 tv series titled For the Sake of Appearance. I'm wanting to find information about the show because I'm creating a draft for it and I want to know if the show has survived so can any of you send me the links here. Matthew John Drummond (talk) 12:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why do most older child actors play younger characters? For instance; 8 or 9-year-olds as 6 or 7-year-olds, 13 or 14-year-olds as 11 or 12-year-olds and 15 or 16-year-olds as 12 or 13-year-olds. 86.129.82.17 (talk) 19:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are legal limits to the work children can do: maximum hours per day and per week, dangerous environments, night-time work. Those rules get less strict as the child gets older, making it easier for film makers to work with older children. Furthermore, they become better actors as they get older. So it's best to work with the oldest available child that can believably play the age asked for by the script. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know about the UK, but in those days, magnetic tapes for recording television programs were very expensive and often re-used by broadcasters to record a different program after an initial airing or two. In Canada, we've lost tapings of a whole hosts of popular shows from the 1960s and early 1970s that would now be considered classics, as they featured well-known actors, but that were too expensive to preserve at the time. It's even more likely to have happened for made-for-tv movies that were not expected to have much of a shelf life to begin with. Xuxl (talk) 12:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It did indeed happen a lot in the UK in that era. See Lost television broadcast#United Kingdom, and Doctor Who missing episodes for a high profile example of a programme that was affected and ways some were recovered. As noted in those articles, it wasn't just tapes that were recorded over but film made of the shows were often destroyed for lack of space. The general article does mention more general recovery efforts (I'm assuming from below this was a BBC programme) but for a programme we don't even have an article, I'm not sure how much effort would have been made to find the lost content. Although possibly there efforts are fairly widespread to cover all lost content of theirs, especially since if copies to do exist somewhere they're likely to be lost over time. Nil Einne (talk) 13:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Getting old episodes is hampered by a common belief that the BBC sued someone for having old archives that were supposed to be wiped or returned long ago. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 14:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed that Trial (TV series) redirected to an unrelated show, but the lists of BBC shows linked to that page for the 1971 series. So, I broke the redirect. If you hurry you can see that it is an independent page for the moment. I'm sure someone will revert my change within the next 30 seconds. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 12:25, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The solution to that is to make your efforts in accordance with Wikipedia's policies. If you add something, cite it to a reliable source. If you remove something, give your policy-based reason in the edit summary. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 12:57, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that no matter how much research, explanation, and work you do, it only takes one click to revert it without a reason or explanation. In this case, the Trial article is linked to from pages referring to the 1971 television series. But, someone (who knows who, who knows why) thinks it should link to a completely unrelated television series. That cannot be undone. No amount of research, explanation, discussions, or voting can fix it. Try to split it out to two article... click, revert. Have multiple threads agreeing to make it two articles... click, revert. It is simply too easy to revert without giving a reason. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An unsourced statement in the Trivia section on IMDb says, "All episodes of this series are still intact and still all exist to this day.".[54] --Lambiam14:15, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not everything on there is true because bfi collections have that episodes from some tv shows are available to watch on the bfi collections but on tv brain some episodes of some shows say that there lost when they actually aren’t for example the 1965-1966 tv show titled Blackmail shows the episode titled The Set Up is missing when on bfi it shows that it may exist in the bfi archive there’s also some other episodes from the tv show Blackmail that say there lost on tv brain when there actually available to watch at the bfi archive. Matthew John Drummond (talk) 16:02, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to this article, the BBC usually reused video tape as it cost £120 pounds per hour (about £2,750 today). So if it's not showing up on Google searches (I couldn't find anything either), then it's probably lost. Alansplodge (talk) 12:02, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tencent owns 100% of Riot. Even if Honor of Kings is a blatant ripoff of League of Legends, Riot has no right to sue Tencent. I don't understand why Tencent was afraid of Riot? They later changed their game to Arena of Valor to release in the West due to Riot's copyright complaint. 68.187.65.220 (talk) 23:27, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Just to be clear, I am not asking a question about a prediction, I am asking a question about the finer points (data, evidence) that supports the techno-libertarian idea behind the theory that Elon Musk promotes, for example, when he says "AI would eventually replace all jobs on Earth, making employment optional and transforming jobs into hobbies as AI and robots would provide all necessary goods and services." My question relates to the bolded text. Why is this sunny outcome even considered likely, when the historical reality shows that a darker, dystopian Elysium-like outcome is far more likely to occur, where most of humanity is forced into dire poverty amidst deteriorating environmental and social conditions, while the wealthy who benefit from AI escape to their own walled gardens and new societies free from the teeming masses? Again, I’m not asking about a prediction about the future, I’m asking on what basis are we supposed to accept the idea that AI will benefit humanity? The technological innovation of agriculture clearly didn’t benefit the masses of humanity, and likely enslaved the great majority of them in some form or another. Why will AI be any different? Viriditas (talk) 02:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I want to add something else. I’ve recently been working on several articles about the history of pineapple. One of the most interesting things I discovered within this 500 year time frame, was that the best tasting pineapple varieties were for the most part extirpated. It turns out that there is an inverse relationship between taste and commercial viability (canning size, preservation, etc). In other words, what we know as commercial pineapple in the modern era is representative of the worst tasting pineapple cultivars, but those also happened to be the easiest to grow, produce, and distribute, hence the reason they were chosen and the others were discarded and disappeared (Side note, this may be true for all fruit varieties, I don’t know, but there was a recent article that implied the same holds true for commercial strawberries and blueberries). Why would this kind of thing not also happen with AI, such that the most beneficial AI tailored to help humanity progress to a post-scarcity society would be weeded out to serve the interests of resource extraction and scarcity instead? Viriditas (talk) 03:05, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The current pineapple you find in stores is in no way the worst tasting pineapple. There are many varieties that taste far worse. Some taste like chewing on wet grass. Similarly, the avacado you can purchase in a store is nowhere close to the worst tasting avacado. Both of these are not "easy" to cultivate. Pineapple is very difficult to cultivate and requires a lot of land and labor, which is why you don't see pineapple farms everywhere. Avacados are even harder to cultivate. It is possible that there is a relative to both the pineapple and avacado that tastes better, but implying that we only cultivate the worst tasting fruits to increase profits is not justified. Another example is the tomato. A much easier to cultivate tomato was developed, but it tasted terrible. So, it was abandoned. As for the overall claim that AI will create a few rich and many poor, there were few rich and many poor in the beginning of recorded history. They had oral traditions talking about the few rich and many poor long before recorded history. Throughout all of history, humans have created nations with a few rich and many poor. Why wouldn't the future be a world of a few rich and many poor? That isn't the result of AI. That is the result of humans. A few rich exploit the many poor until conditions are so bad that the poor overthrow the rich and replace them with a new group of few rich. Alternately, a few rich in one area get their many poor to fight with the many poor of another area so they can take away from another minority of rich. If humans were studied like we study all other animals, this would be labeled normal human behavior. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 11:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My source was Johanna Lausen-Higgins of Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh. She's notable for her hands on work on the Lost Gardens of Heligan. She's a horticulturist and garden historian who studied at Bristol University. In the event that I misrepresented her, and it sounds like I did, here's a transcription of her 2020 lecture:
So the first classification that was done was by [Donald Monroe?] in 1835, and he lists around 52 different cultivars, many of which are thought to be lost now. And, this modern cultivar, iconically named [51MD?], really shows why many of these cultivars are lost now. [You've] got all the attributes of easier handling: you've got a smooth edge to the leaf, but also if you look at the outline of the fruit, it's basically been bred to fit neatly into a tin can, [so] cutting machines could cut equal slices with minimal loss...but the cultivars that were particularly favored in the 18th and 19th centuries, [are] very different. [You] see this strongly tapering outline to the fruit. And in the case of Sugarloaf and Queen...they also have very strongly outward protecting fruitlets. Which again is something that is not favored in the canning industry. And again, I can tell you the flavors are so incredible in these different old cultivars. So Abacaxi, so "Black Prince" now, a lost cultivar, is probably an Abacaxi type, actually has white flesh and really unusual, subtle flavors. You can still read in modern treatises on the pineapple, that Smooth Cayenne...this is the one that dominates the trade, has by far the poorest flavour. It's got the highest acidity and also possibly the highest amount of bromelain. Whereas Queen or Sugarloaf, which were particularly favoured as well...the aroma and the flavours are extraordinary.
Throughout all of history, humans have created nations with a few rich and many poor. Why wouldn't the future be a world of a few rich and many poor...If humans were studied like we study all other animals, this would be labeled normal human behavior.
Forgive me, but this sounds identical to an appeal to tradition. It's also the same argument abolitionists were met with when they opposed slavery. They were told that slavery was natural, and it was normal, and even that god approved of it. They were also told that they were going against the natural order of things in their opposition to it. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Example: Thomas Roderick Dew (1802–1846) professor, public intellectual, president of The College of William & Mary (1836-1846). Best known for his pro-slavery advocacy based on his belief that blacks were racially inferior, "defending slavery based on race as consistent with the natural order". Viriditas (talk) 01:23, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see it as an appeal to tradition. It is refuting the precedent. Your claim appears to be that because of AI, the future will change so that there will be a minority of rich people and a majority of poor people. That is refuted by stating that there has always been a minority of rich people and a majority of poor people. Therefore, the precent that the result is because of AI is invalid. You can make any claim you want. Because (whomever gets elected in November) the future will have a rich minority and poor majority. Because the Simpsons was signed for another season, the future will have a rich minority and a poor majority. Because Beyonce went into country music, the future will have a rich minority and a poor majority. etc... It isn't an appeal to tradition. It is a statement of history which should lead you to refine your claim. Because of AI, how will the rich minority and poor majority change? Will the minority become smaller? Will the gap widen, which is already does every generation? How much AI is required to make the change you are discussing? 75.136.148.8 (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think its refuted at all. You're ignoring the rise of economic inequality over the last several centuries. What I think you are doing is ignoring recent history. And this is, in fact, what all the discussion about AI focuses on.[55][56] So, I just find your comment a bit odd. Your comments are also highly reminiscent of all the discussions I've had with right-libertarians who refuse to accept there's even a problem and see the nation state and democracy as the true threat. Most of these types of people don't accept the concept of wealth disparity or income inequality and think it should be ignored. Viriditas (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IMO bringing in this fruit analogy does not help to clarify the central issue. The best tasting varieties were not "extirpated" and are mostly still available – only not in your local supermarket. Growing and transporting produce requires resources, which have a limited capacity. Capacity is unlikely to be a major limiting factor in deploying beneficial AI. If AI and robots provide all necessary goods and services, no one will have an income to buy them. Can one expect the profit-driven owners of the means of production to make them available to all for free? Why should they do that? They'll be happy when they themselves are provided with all necessary goods and services and have no incentive for extending this to the rest of us. --Lambiam12:13, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The example I was aiming for with the fruit analogy was to try and show that the agricultural preference for viable, commercial fruit that led one to select a certain variety for its qualities related to growing, packaging, shipping, and shelf stability, are comparably the same kind of commerical qualities we might expect with human-driven, artificial selection in AI development, leading to something like an algorithmic bias favoring poor outcomes for humanity, much as the flavor and palatability was selected against with the commerical dominance of Smooth Cayenne. According to Wikipedia "Smooth Cayenne is now the dominant cultivar in world production." Viriditas (talk) 23:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that historical precedents suggest rather strongly and convincingly that the most powerful people are not likely to give up their relatively privileged position voluntarily and will even resort to brutal measures to stay on top. Total control over the use of AI will make it much easier for the rulers of the world to remain the most powerful. They will need us no longer, so something drastic is necessary to save humanity from getting stuck in an Elysium-like future, one I'm afraid Matt Damon will be of little help getting us out of. --Lambiam11:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess my followup question is this: why do Musk and others in the tech community keep repeating this line? Are they merely hopeful, technological utopians, or are they deliberately lying? Hacker News has thousands upon thousands of comments by people in the tech industry insisting that AI will make jobs a thing of the past and everyone will have leisure time to pursue their own hobbies. The thing is, I'm familiar with the older literature. People have been saying this for a little over a century. It never happened, but what did happen was the complete opposite: human productivity was expected to increase just as industrialization maximized output, resulting in less leisure time than in the past. In fact, the conventional wisdom now is that feudal serfs had more leisure time 500 years ago than modern workers do today. So are people deliberately lying about AI or are they just delusional? Finally, if you're familiar with Musk, then you know his position is that humanity needs to merge with the machine as a cyborg. That's literally his answer, I'm not making this up. Why am I the only person who finds this unacceptable? If you're the least bit familiar with science fiction, the evil scientist who somehow convinces the public to become cyborgs always ends up removing their individuality and exerting complete control over them. Surely, someone else has pointed this out? Viriditas (talk) 00:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to add a bit to the cyborg argument: my understanding as to why Musk and others make this argument comes down to this: 1) They believe that humanity has evolved or gone as far as it can go without being threatened with extinction by machine intelligence 2) They believe that one way to insure survival into the foreseeable future is to compromise by becoming part-machine and merging with it as a kind of cyborg 3) This idea almost seems to contradict their assertion that we won’t need to work and everybody will have access to abundant resources 4) Newer data indicates that AI consumes far too many resources and energy requirements that makes it a direct threat to human existence. 5) See 1. Is this a self-fulfilling prophecy? Viriditas (talk) 03:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hah, i recall an earlier question of yours concerning a passage in Consider Phlebas, did you continue past the cannibalism of the islanders living in a natural state to the comic passage of Horza delighting in his destruction of the shuttle AI?
I am going to question your understanding of history. If you believe that the technological innovation of agriculture clearly didn’t benefit the masses of humanity then i wonder what kind of metrics you are using to evaluate the human condition? History has been a very long path out of darkness, towards greater standards of living and more liberal societies. While i think you are correct to take a skeptical look at the AI hype, i don't think you have a historical argument for imagining a future where most of humanity is forced into dire poverty. Many live in dire poverty now, and poverty is widespread, but along with technological innovation there has been a substantial positive trend:
The chart shows that almost 10% of the world's population live in extreme poverty. It also tells us that two hundred years ago, the same was true for almost 80% of the world’s population. In 1820, only a small elite enjoyed higher standards of living, while the vast majority of people lived in conditions that we call extreme poverty today. Since then, the share of extremely poor people fell continuously. More and more world regions industrialized and achieved economic growth which made it possible to lift more people out of poverty: In 1950 about half the world were living in extreme poverty; in 1990, it was still more than a third. By 2019 the share of the world population in extreme poverty has fallen below 10%.
I think you misunderstood what you read. I was citing the famous passage from Harari, which I assumed everyone was familiar with by now considering how much it has been quoted. His argument is that we didn’t so much as master agriculture as it mastered us and turned us into slaves. Harari argues that we were the ones domesticated by the plants, which changed our lives from one of leisure to one of toil. Keep in mind, Harari is intentionally turning the conventional narrative on its head. He’s arguing that the agricultural revolution was not as great as we make it out to be. It destroyed our bodies with labor, it eliminated our leisure time, it gave us a poor diet, it was less economically secure than hunting and gathering, and if the monoculture was threatened or the climate changed, it killed millions of peasants. It offered less security due to the need to protect possessions and provisions. “Since we enjoy affluence and security, and since our affluence and security are built on foundations laid by the Agricultural Revolution, we assume that the Agricultural Revolution was a wonderful improvement. Yet it is wrong to judge thousands of years of history from the perspective of today. A much more representative viewpoint is that of a three-year-old girl dying from malnutrition in first-century China because her father's crops have failed. Would she say 'I am dying from malnutrition, but in 2,000 years, people will have plenty to eat and live in big air-conditioned houses, so my suffering is a worthwhile sacrifice'?...Rather than heralding a new era of easy living, the Agricultural Revolution left farmers with lives generally more difficult and less satisfying than those of foragers. Hunter-gatherers spent their time in more stimulating and varied ways, and were less in danger of starvation and disease. The Agricultural Revolution certainly enlarged the sum total of food at the disposal of humankind, but the extra food did not translate into a better diet or more leisure. Rather, it translated into population explosions and pampered elites. The average farmer worked harder than the average forager, and got a worse diet in return. The Agricultural Revolution was history's biggest fraud." Viriditas (talk) 02:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From another POV, see Changes in the Land: Indians, Colonists and the Ecology of New England (1983), which nicely illustrates the clash of civilizations in terms of agriculture. The colonists didn’t want to even try to understand how and why the indigenous people refused to settle down and stay put growing food on farms, aghast that they would even incorporate "lean times" into their worldview as an acceptable practice and normalized part of their life. Why don’t you just store food so you don’t have to go hungry, they would ask? The author investigates this question, finding that the nomadic, always on the move practice could have serious ecological benefits for the land, providing a kind of harmonious resiliency when things went well. Of course, when they didn’t, the risk of starving was very real. The book presents a very real look at an alternative way of life to agricultural farming in one place, perhaps a kind of living that has been entirely lost to history. And in spite of the ever present risks and dangers, there is a sense of a kind of special freedom and leisure that we no longer are aware of, one that has been lost to time. Viriditas (talk) 02:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hah, i recall an earlier question of yours concerning a passage in Consider Phlebas, did you continue past the cannibalism of the islanders living in a natural state to the comic passage of Horza delighting in his destruction of the shuttle AI?
Yes, I made it all the way to the eighth book, Matter, which I have in front of me. I threw it against the wall after getting so depressed by the events in it. I made it halfway through. I do plan on picking it up again so I can finish up with Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata. One of the things I don't like is how Banks constantly reuses the same words and imagery. One of the things I do like, is how he manages to combine very serious drama, violence, and humor all in a single chapter. That's quite an achievement, and I can't quite recall another author successfully mixing all those elements together before. Viriditas (talk) 03:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I think it's pretty obvious where this is going. This 2020 opinion piece from scholars around the world, "Do Democracy and Capitalism Really Need Each Other?" indicates to me, based on the trends that we are seeing, that AI will be used to eliminate democracy once and for all. It's also interesting to note how the philosophical impetus for cryptocurrency fits into all of this. Crypto was intended by anti-democractic libertarians to be used to bankrupt the state, paving the way for right-wing billionaires to take over and use AI to create a new world where they aren't taxed and where the general public works for them on corporate slave plantations (company towns) with no regulatory framework, no guarantee of human rights, and no public infrastructure for healthcare, safe water, food, or air, in an economy based on servicing the wealthy and powerful. Viriditas (talk) 21:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If Hillary Clinton had won the Electoral College, in 2016, would there have been in reverse roles, faithless electors who would have prevented her election? Thanks. 2.35.188.164 (talk) 19:16, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no way one can answer this question about a counterfactual hypothetical situation. There is no known reason to assume that some of the hypothetical pledged electors would have been faithless. --Lambiam19:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please read Faithless elector which describes several such Clinton electors in the 2016 presidential election. These were, in effect, protest votes cast when it was clear that Trump had won. Personally, I doubt those protest votes would have been cast had Clinton won the Electoral College, but this is speculation about a hypothetical. Cullen328 (talk) 19:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One can speculate about this counterfactual hypothetical, but there is no known reason to assume that some of the pledged electors in this hypothetical situation would have been faithless – unless Clinton had won by a landslide, but then any faithless electors would not have prevented her election. However, there are no known facts that imply it is impossible that many would have voted for Faith Spotted Eagle. Therefore there is no way one can answer this question. --Lambiam06:24, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is very complicated because the electors are ruled by state law, not federal law. The Supreme Court (Jan 2020) affirmed that electors fall completely under state law. Since then, states have taken more and more action to stop and punish faithless electors, including proposing laws to invalidate and replace a faithless elector's vote. In the end, it is state law, so any complete answer would require a discussion of how each state would be handled, along with the changes in the laws from year to year. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 20:30, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An exhaustive discussion of how each potential case would have been handled in each of the several states, informed by the changes in their laws from day to day, will not be of help in answering he question. --Lambiam06:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's because, as you keep pointing out, nobody can ever say what would have happened if some event that didn't happen had happened. The closest we could ever get is reporting the opinion of some commentator about what would/might have happened. But that's just their opinion; no-one can say whether it would actually have happened that way or not. And that is why we do not entertain questions that call for hypothesis, speculation or debate. And that is why I'm closing this now. -- Jack of Oz[pleasantries]07:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is there an accepted, standard location when finding latitude and longitude for ponds and lakes? Or, is wherever the pond lake first encounter? It is probably changed with GPS and Sats. DMc75771 (talk) 19:47, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If there were one, I believe it would be the same for any type of geographic feature occupying an area with a somewhat defined shape, such as an island, a swamp, a salt flat, and so on. A plausible candidate, if one doesn't want to single out a specific feature of the area, is its geographical centre. As stated in a United States Geological Survey document quoted in our article, "There is no generally accepted definition of geographic center, and no completely satisfactory method for determining it." For most purposes, the centroid of the area will usually be satisfactory in practice. I suppose one will want the location to fall inside the area, but if the area is not even roughly convex, for example C-shaped, its centroid may fall outside the area. --Lambiam09:04, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Surprisingly hard to find a definitive statement from a major cartographic agency, but the Natural History Museum, London guidelines for recording the location of species says "It is best to use the geographic centre (the centroid/midpoint of both the latitude and longitude extremes) for the coordinates of named places". [57]Alansplodge (talk) 11:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your long and curved lake is better suited to the advice for rivers: "Make a straight line from the mouth of the river to the head of the river. Calculate the centre of this line, and place the coordinates closest to the centre of the line on the river itself". Alansplodge (talk) 11:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another twist here is that for feature geometries polygons can have holes, and water body features are often modeled with multipoloygons, that is a set of polygons each of which can have zero or more holes. So even for a convex polygon there is no guarantee the centroid or the center of the bounding box are inside the feature. fiveby(zero) 02:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that there's an actual requirement for perfect mathematical exactitude; if the co-ordinates indicate a point somewhere in the middle of a particular lake, then the job is done. Alansplodge (talk) 11:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I wrote, "I suppose one will want the location to fall inside the area", but if one is writing a program for assigning locations to geological features of a known extent, one needs some more precise definition. For example, if the centroid is not inside the area, the algorithm could select the location inside the area as far away as possible from its boundary, and if there are several such locations (for example for the C-shaped lake in my illustration), one as close as possible to the centroid. --Lambiam13:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It may be worthwhile to point to WikiProject Geographical coordinates's guidelines on the matter. Elsewhere on that page one finds "For geographical features with an area, such as lakes, reservoirs, and islands, use a point reasonably in the center of the feature. (Remember not to specify too much precision; see Precision guidelines below.)" Deor (talk) 13:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I got to thinking, would it be possible in some way to get cash directly from the Internet, by using one's bank account credentials but without using a debit card or going to a bank office to ask for cash in person? You would log in to your bank over the Internet, withdraw money, and have the money somehow physically appear in front of you in cash.
MikroBitti magazine published an article of a "home banknote printer" in the early 1990s as I recall. The article announced a new kind of home printer that would print cash. "Of course, the printer won't print cash out of thin air", the magazine said, "you have to go out and buy licences for it." But this was an April Fool's joke. Would such a machine actually work, by withdrawing money from your bank account over the Internet and then printing it out in cash? JIP | Talk20:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Counterfeiting is not printing your own money, it is printing someone else's money. I can invent my own money and print it right now. As long as it is not a copy of an existing bank note, copying of which is indeed punishable by law in most places.
Personal checks, store credit coupons, lunch vouchers, local currencies and many others are scrip that promise to deliver goods and services, and are issuded by non-govermental entities.
We could invent a form of cryptocurrencies that can be printed out. Takes a bit of thiking though: how do you prevent them from being copied. Someone out there must be clever enough to figure it out, if not has alreadly done so. 85.76.35.183 (talk) 13:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can certainly print your own checks. That's routinely done in business. That's not the same thing as printing actual money. And printing "your own money" is not printing actual money either. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 18:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's also worth pointing out that none of those things are legal tender. No one is required to accept checks nor bitcoins as payment. And note that the OP said "cash". None of those things qualify. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not promoting it; I just felt it was also worth pointing out that your statement "none of those things are legal tender" is not entirely accurate. Also, something that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts, becomes, by virtue of that quality, "actual" money. --Lambiam22:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, a business can accept various forms of payment, including checks, credit cards, and even crypto if they want to. But that doesn't make it "legal tender" except for a country which has decided to allow bitcoins as such, for whatever reason. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 23:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
DigiCash had a cryptographic protocol that would allow this. The "cash" was, as for bitcoin, a digital identifier, which could be represented as a conventional string such as 2ABA28C066F74CC8710ED3B22798255E, but for the purpose of home-printed money should be machine readable, as for example a QR code. As with any form of digital money, there is a potential problem of someone attempting to spend the same digital string twice. One solution is that a central system keeps a list of the unspent digital identifiers issued, validates a digital identifier when the money is used for a payment and at the same time removes it from the list. The DigiCash solution was decentralized; a malicious user could in theory spend a digital identifier twice, but this would reveal their identity. Otherwise, the user would remain untraceable. --Lambiam22:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
during a diving competition that is aquatic diving. What is the purpose of the water jets that spray into the pool? Brad (talk) 16:30, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Fédération Internationale de Natation (FINA) requires[59] surface agitation to provide a visual cue that helps divers judge when to enter their rotation as they dive into the water. Philvoids (talk) 16:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
thank you for your prompt reply! Now I just wonder why that didn't show up in the first place and I tried to Google it. Thanks again
I used to live in a town with a large farmer's market. The local news investigated and found that almost all of the food for sale was purchased from a wholesaler who distributed food grown in other states and countries. The concept is that a farmer's market supports local farmers. But, over time, this market was overrun by people who did nto have a farm and simply resold food they purchased in bulk without the overhead of running a grocery store. Those who did grow their own food were characterized as lawyers who grew a few tomatos on the porch and sold them at a loss just to get tax writeoffs for having farmland on their property. I am certain that this practice is far more widespread than one city. So, people hear that the farmer's market doesn't actually have any local farmers and there is no incentive to go. It is necessary to advertise that the people are local and the food was grown locally. But, are they honest? Why not purchase vegetables off a plane from Brazil and sell it with a big sign that says "I grew this locally!" (Will anyone actually go through the trouble to sue for false advertisint? Will be be very hard for a lawyer to argue that "grew locally" includes "purchased from a shipment from another country"?) This exact same issue comes up with "farm to table" restaurants. They claim to primarily use ingredients from local farms. Do they? How do you know? What farms? What does "local" include? 75.136.148.8 (talk) 18:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The advertising admits "We supplement the bags with fruit and veg from further afield when local produce is not available."[60]. Here the advertising is "Strict rules apply so you can be certain that everything sold at the market is being sold by the farmer who grew it."[61]2A00:23D0:E91:1101:C919:B9E0:1479:94A5 (talk) 12:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Paul A. Suhler, From Rainbow to Gusto: Stealth and the Design of the Lockheed Blackbird (2009), p. 95:
Using a figure of $10 per hour, one week would cost $16,000. He (Kelly Johnson) added a profit of $500 per week and concluded, “For $225,000 can go full steam for 3 months” (Johnson, C. L., Archangel project design notebook, Lockheed ADP, Burbank, CA, entry for 26 April 1958, pg. 1).
It cost $16,000/week for a 40-man team to operate at full speed in 1958. I think this cost means wages + office costs (housing, utilities, many other things). How much money could an engineer make in the late 1950s? -- Toytoy (talk) 05:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The 1960 census report (published in 1962) here shows "craftsmen, operatives, and kind" had a median income of $6,200. It also shows that salaries increased a great deal between 1950 and 1960, even when adjusted for 1960 dollars. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello everybody. At one time, Palestinian security forces used the former fishing trawler Chandalahe for military purposes; Israel damaged it in 2002 and since then it has been abandoned off the coast of Gaza. I wanted to know what his current fate is? Vyacheslav84 (talk) 15:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here the ship is named "Chindallah", and said to have been destroyed, although it may have been only "badly damaged".[62] "Shindallah" (شيندالله?) looks like an Arabic name. --Lambiam10:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[Edit Conflict] I'm not an expert on copyright, but as a former professional editor have more than a layperson's grasp of it. In my judgement, this design is too complex to be ineligible for copyright and the licencing claim (which is on slightly different grounds anyway, go read) is mistaken.
It would not be surprising if the designer, Joseph Redford, had released it under a suitable CC licence, but we have no evidence of that, as it's not stated in the linked source.
However, flags are problematic, since they're meant to be publicly seen, analagous to heraldic coats of arms, which anyone writing about the arms' holder (for example) can depict without permission (a particular depiction may be copyright, but the point of arms, and usually flags, is that their essential details can be defined in words and redrawn from them). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 11:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MrPersonHumanGuy Do you have a reference desk question? If you wish to propose an improvement to any article the place to do so is the Talk page of that article, but the caption does make it clear that that is an old version. Shantavira|feed me08:54, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking for one book. I only remember the beginning of the piece. Some guy found a derelict computer, sat down at it and started doing something, and then he saw a man with a gun walk up to the desk, they looked at each other in silence for a while, then the guy mechanically pressed the Enter button and the man shot him back. The work was read in the 1990s or very early 2000s. The piece appeared no later than the 1990s (probably earlier). I also remember that the guy was doing something enthusiastically on the computer: at first he typed without looking at the screen, but the message on the computer monitor made him do his work more slowly and carefully. The phrases went something like this. The message on the computer screen made him work more carefully. Behind the desk stood a man with a gun in his hand. The guy had never seen a real gun, except in the movies, but he knew immediately what it was. The guy's hand dropped mechanically to the Enter button, and the same second the black muzzle of the gun burst into flames, ending his life. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 08:27, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, was this a novel, occupying a full printed volume, or a shorter work, perhaps the first story in a collection or anthology? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 12:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is the name of this fallacy?
1-A perfect man has the characteristics A, B and C.
2-Womans dont like a man with all the characteristics A, B and C.
3-So womans dont like a perfect man.
The problem here is that being perfect is about the result, if a woman dont like man X, he is not perfect, no matter what characteristics he has.
The fallacy implies having the characteristics A, B and C makes you perfect man, and then since this "A, B, C characteristics" man is not wanted by a girl, girls dont like perfect man.177.207.110.196 (talk) 14:14, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree the wording is ambiguous. I interpreted it the same as you at first. But they added an additional condition below that; "if a woman dont like man X, he is not perfect", which means there is an additional statement: "2.5. Every perfect man is liked by women". The result of 1, 2, and 2.5 is "3A. Therefore, there are no perfect men". This, too, is logically consistent, and not a fallacy. Maybe the reason the original set of statements seems like a fallacy is that 1, 2 (and 2.5) are not really consistent with real life. Floquenbeam (talk) 21:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I read "The problem here is that being perfect is about the result, if a woman dont like man X, he is not perfectt, no matter what characteristics he has." not as an additional statement to the syllogism, but as a rebuttal of it, implying that their first statement meant "some man" is "A perfect man...". Modocc (talk) 22:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find it difficult to interpret the sentence explaining the perceived problem with the syllogism, especally the part "being perfect is about the result" – the result of what, and why is that problematic? The best I can come up with for the rest of the sentence is that there is an additional premise:
4. A man who is not liked by some woman is not perfect.
Taking being liked by women to be a yes-or-no predicate, combining this prenise with the earlier conclusion 3 allows us to deduce that no man is perfect. --Lambiam22:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OP also wrote "The fallacy implies having the characteristics A, B and C makes you perfect man..." which confirms that not all men with these characteristics are perfect, only some are, which is why its conclusion is a hasty generalization. Modocc (talk) 22:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OP's syllogism comes as sad news to any perfect mans hoping for admiration from womans but ordinary literate men and women need not feel affected. Philvoids (talk) 21:10, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will explain myself better, when talking about a perfect man, the word perfect is about the results, a perfect man A if he wanted a woman B would be able to make her want to date him and not want to leave him and would love staying with him, all that with 100% certainty.
The fallacy comes from the fact that the person saying all that, is implying that having characteristics A, B and C makes you perfect, what makes someone perfect is the result and not the characteristics he has (unless some set of characteristics leads to him ALWAYS having the result and this is not the case with characteristics A, B and C alone). After seeing that a girl didnt wanted a guy with characteristics A, B and C (that he implied it meant the guy was perfect), he says that because of that it means girls wont like a perfect man.
Another example, lets imagine that assuming perfect play you can always wins chess as white, an related example would be.
1-A perfect chess player has the characteristics A, B and C.
2-A player with those characteristics playing as white lost the game.
3-This means being a perfect player doenst imply that you will win as white.
Again a perfect chess player is one that always win, he implies that some characteristics make some player perfect and assume something based at what happened with a player that has his own definition of perfect player.177.207.110.147 (talk) 00:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For this to be a fallacy the conclusion 3 is either false or not implied, because being a perfect player means they win. Check. Then 2 someone with characteristics A, B and C loses. Check. The loser shares these characteristics with either all or some perfect players. Check. So 1 and 2 are not sufficient to conclude 3. Thus its a faulty generalization. Correct? Modocc (talk) 01:20, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"For this to be a fallacy the conclusion 3 is either false or not implied". 3 is false.
"The loser shares these characteristics with either all or some perfect players. " They dont share those characteristics with perfect players , the person saying thing 1 implied those characteristics make someone perfect, this came out of his own mind, one characteristic that would make someone perfect is to have the endgame tablebase up to 32 pieces (max amount of pieces you can have at chess and also never misclick/mouse slip when playing chess and also be able to move really fast (needed if they are playing fast time controls)177.207.110.147 (talk) 01:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The objection to the conclusion relies on a premise not given in the syllogism: that a perfect chess player always wins as white (or that the perfect man is liked by women). Since that's not a premise given in the syllogism, the conclusion is perfectly valid. --Avocado (talk) 00:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perfectly valid sure but unsound, nevertheless, when its premise(s) are known to be false. Thus, it is an informal fallacy, and the name of the fallacy is what the OP requested and it's listed in the article as a fallacy of presumption. It's a fallacy that frequently occurs with paradigm shifts. Modocc (talk) 01:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A personal communications service (PCS) is set of communications capabilities that provide a combination of terminal mobility, personal mobility, and service profile management.
Most mobile numbers on the NANP, in the sense of telephone numbers assigned to mobile cellular devices, do not have a geography-based area code; although the first three digits of such numbers are commonly referred to as their "area code", this is a bit of a misnomer then. In the USA these mobile numbers have a 5XX "area code". However, according to North American Numbering Plan § Non-geographic services, the converse is not always true: personal communications service 5XX numbers can also be for fixed devices (not using a cellular network). --Lambiam11:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Punjabi and Bengali instruction language university
Which universities in Punjab, India and Pakistan are known to give instructions or lectures in Punjabi and which universities in West Bengal are known to give instructions in Bengali? I was under the impression that all universities in Punjab, India; Punjab, Pakistan and West Bengal in India give only in Hindi and English. Please do enlighten. Donmust90 Donmust90 (talk) 16:46, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At coordinates 34.79749785424678, -82.37485296822788, there is an interchange. On both sides of the highway, there is a short side roadway that has multiple on and offramps. I've been looking at interchange designs, but I can't find an example of this "multi-interchange" with a proper name. I would like a reference that includes this interchange design. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 16:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I remember back in elementary school, one of my classmates said he memorized multiplication tables by assigning a gender and color to each equation. For example, he would say eight times nine was male and purple and five times eight was female and brown. Is there a name for this phenomenon, and does this actually work? TWOrantulaTM (enter the web) 02:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Synesthesia is likely a natural in-born perception while the OP's classmate voluntarily cultivates an unusual (two-dimensional) form of Mnemonic. These can aid memory because we more easily remember spatial, personal, surprising, physical, sexual, humorous and otherwise "relatable" information than more abstract or impersonal forms of information. Philvoids (talk) 13:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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