Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Martial arts

Latest comment: 13 days ago by Papaursa in topic Nori Bunasawa
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Guidelines for the amateur wrestlers at WP:ATH


The Wikipedia:Notability (sports) doesn't have guidelines regarding the amateur wrestlers. So, if guidelines regarding an amateur wrestler's notability for a Wikipedia article exist then they should be mentioned there. And if there hasn't been any consensus regarding such guidelines then it should be developed. I also posted a request regarding the same at the talk page of amateur wrestling but didn't get any response yet. - NitinMlk (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

Need to be linked together


Category:Finnish karateka need to linked with its Finnish counterpart Luokka:Suomalaiset karatekat I tried doing it myself and failed it makes no sense the french version is linked but not the Finnish version. Dwanyewest (talk) 21:28, 22 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

Notification of RFC for Korean MOS in regard to romanization


Should we use McCune-Reischauer or Revised for topics relating to pre-1945 Korea? Those inclined, please contribute here. Hijiri 88 (やや) 06:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

Moving a stub article forward - Patrick Burris


What is the protocol for moving an article beyond stub status? I've spent a few hours cleaning up the article on Patrick Burris and humbly submit its beyond stub. Can it be classified as a new article and submitted for DYK? Thoughts? Dnforney (talk) 23:04, 15 August 2016 (UTC)Reply

Florendo Visitacion


Is he notable? His article was deleted twice and created three times, but his obituary was in the NY Times. That seems like proof of notability.Jakejr (talk) 01:35, 24 August 2016 (UTC)Reply

Article about the state of martial arts in Hong Kong


Hi guys!

Here is an article about the state of martial arts in Hong Kong:

If anybody wants to use it, feel free!

WhisperToMe (talk) 17:38, 25 August 2016 (UTC)Reply

how to find all the deleted aricles?


A bunch of famous martial art teacher articles have been deleted.

Where can I find them? Seikichi Iha Also the main practioners of Systema had articles.

The article on Iha was very good. What a waste! There must be an archive somewhere, right? (talk) 22:40, 26 September 2016 (UTC)Reply



I just started the article Kūdō as a friend is a competitor. I myself know very little about martial arts, but it turns out the article exists in 15 languages, so... can someone help clean up the terms and spruce it up a bit? Thanks!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 07:33, 17 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

Teahouse question


Would someone from WPMA mind taking a look at WP:THQ#I create the page. But how I make it live? Help me please and see if this particular martial artist might be notable enough for a stand-alone article. The draft was mistakenly moved into the "Wikipedia" namespace and there also are quite a number of formatting errors, etc., all of which are fairly easily to fix if there are no notability issues. The article appears to be primarily created by two SPAs and there may be a bit of COI involved, but once again all of that can be fixed if there's sufficient significant coverage for a stand-alone article. FWIW, the subject of the article seems to have won lots of medals at international competition, but I don't know much about MMA and do not know whether this indicates Wikipedia notability. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:06, 11 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

That article is truly a mess. It should be moved back to the proper Draft space and cleaned up a lot. No the subject did not win lots of medals - they are apparently won by people he has trained and frankly those connections aren't supported by references. It really is hard to commit to notability.Peter Rehse (talk) 09:14, 11 November 2016 (UTC)Reply
Thank you PRehse for taking a look and posting something similar at the Teahouse. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:22, 11 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

Surely Larry Tatum is notbale?


Before I proceed I wish to know with the sources availabe is Larry Tatum notbale? [2] Dwanyewest (talk) 08:47, 21 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

He was a fairly well known student of Ed Parker. I'm not aware of him meeting any of the criteria at WP:MANOTE, though that doesn't mean he didn't. That means it boils down to him meeting WP:GNG. It seems to me he demonstrated Kenpo techniques in a number of martial arts magazines, but I don't know if that's enough to meet GNG. Papaursa (talk) 18:45, 26 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

New page for Martial artist


I have written this draft for a martial artist and fight choreographer for recent hollywood movies, I need some feedback on what can be improved if anything (Australianblackbelt (talk) 11:04, 13 January 2017 (UTC))Reply

Is he notable for anything besides his relationship with Downey? Papaursa (talk) 18:53, 15 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

K.R.Ali Taekwondo Academy notability question


Would someone from WP:MARTIAL mind taking a look at this Teahouse question? Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

Women in Red online editathon on sports


Welcome to Women in Red's
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RFC on sports notability


An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)Reply

Marcio Stambowsky up for deletion


Comment if you wish.★Trekker (talk) 16:47, 25 May 2017 (UTC)Reply

Recognized reliable sources


Does this project have a list of sources which are considered reliable? The pro wrestling project has one which I think is very helpful.★Trekker (talk) 18:01, 1 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

Wrestling at the 2016 Olympics


Hi, I was wondering what the F meant in the first repechage match in the Wrestling at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's Greco-Roman 59 kg article. I presume it's some sort of warning or something but it isn't explained anywhere. Red Fiona (talk) 17:35, 9 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

WikiProject Karate Proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Wikipedia:WikiProject Karate


Dear participants of this WikiProject, I am proposing a new WikiProject Karate to bring together editors with knowledge of this art, especially due to Karate becoming an Olympic sport I think it is time to focus energy on the roughly 3500 main space articles associated with Karate. Full description of the rationale and goals can be found at the link above, please comment, discuss (and join if you support this project!) All the best, Mountaincirque 15:30, 22 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

Mountaincirque I have written some suggestions on the talk page if you are interested. Dwanyewest (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2017 (UTC)Reply
Comment: so the consensus at Proposals/Wikipedia:WikiProject Karate seems to be to create it as a task force under WP:WikiProject Martial arts (and listed as a connected task force of WP:WikiProject Japan. We have 8 supporters at this stage which is above the recommended amount to proceed with a project/task force so if editors here are happy we will go ahead and create the task force under this parent WikiProject. Please let us know if you have any comments before we proceed? Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 12:41, 3 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Potential Hoax article?


I'm extremely skeptical about the current Zui quan article, alleging that 'Drunken Fist' is a real historical form of martial arts. Sources about the Jackie Chan movie of that name (Drunken Master in English) seem to suggest that this was a comedic style of martial art invented for the movie, not a respected historical tradition. The current state of referencing on the article do little to alay my suspicions, I think it's fair to doubt the reliability of most of the sources used. Would anybody be able to verify the sources, especially those cited in the 'History' section of the article? Landscape repton (talk) 11:11, 23 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for highlighting this, I found this source (page 50/51):

Which seems to corroborate your idea that this is a 'form' not a style or art, one used for entertainment purposes (maybe a little like WWE). I am leaning towards a rewrite and full reference check rather than a delete. Mountaincirque · Join the Karate Task Force? 14:40, 24 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

This is a hard one to pick apart, here is another magazine article claiming that it goes back to 1100 CE: [3]. It may take some work to pick this one apart and some Kung Fu experts (I am a Karate person myself mainly)... Mountaincirque · Join the Karate Task Force? 14:46, 24 July 2017 (UTC)Reply
  • I am not a wushu expert, but some I know have taught a drunken form to a few of their top students. I have never heard any of them claim it is what most of us would call a style. Papaursa (talk) 01:59, 31 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Discussion at NSPORTS


Hello all. In an effort to finally resolve the never-ending and annoying GNG v SSG issue, I've proposed a revision of the NSPORTS introduction. You are all invited to take part in the discussion. Thank you. Jack | talk page 06:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

What about Master Sken?


I was thinking surely Master Sken is notable as was in Batman and considered an important figure in bring Muay Thai to the UK. Dwanyewest (talk) 22:36, 29 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Lama (martial art) needs help


Hey folks -- I came across Lama (martial art) today. It is an absolute mess of weird tone, deadlink citations, promotion of the primary author's Angelfire page, and overall bloat. I am tempted to take it to AfD for a WP:TNT but I wanted to consult with the subject matter experts first to see if someone had access to better sources than me. Is this actually a notable subject? Kung-fu strikes me as a topic that is full of minor offshoots of dubious legitimacy/notability.

Any guidance you have for me would be greatly appreciated. A Traintalk 07:44, 9 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Actually, all of martial arts "is full of minor offshoots of dubious legitimacy/notability." An admittedly quick scan of the article's sources leaves me feeling there's a lack of significant independent coverage. Barring any dissenting views, I'd say go ahead and put it up for Afd. That act often leads to clarificantions and/or additional sources being found. I don't see how it could hurt. Papaursa (talk) 20:13, 14 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 17:01, 3 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

What about these techniques?


Should the Crane kick and Brazilian kick have their own articles I think the crane kick is worthy of an article. Dwanyewest (talk) 10:31, 25 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

What about Ernest Lieb?


Does Ernest Lieb fit the notability criteria as I found out he was head of the American Karate AAU board surely that would count as making him noteworthy.Dwanyewest (talk) 01:49, 7 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

I don't see that heading the AAU board automatically makes him notable. He was well-known, but that's not sufficient to show notability. It does mean, however, that there may be coverage of him that would meet WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 01:14, 9 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

template question


At the top of this page is a template for using catscan to search for martial arts articles that were recently created. It doesn't work and I was wondering if anyone knew why or, more importantly, has an easy way to search for those articles. Papaursa (talk) 01:18, 9 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

It has not worked for a long time - I use the New Article option on the Main Project Page (it does the same thing).PRehse (talk) 09:20, 9 January 2018 (UTC)Reply
Which shows how much I've cut back my WP editing. I also used to use that template to search for martial arts articles tagged for notability issues. Anyone have any suggestions for how I can do that now? Papaursa (talk) 20:44, 13 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

Dojo vs. Dōjō


Was wondering in the context of martial arts whether the macronless "dojo" or the macroned "dōjō" is more commonly used. The article Dojo was recently moved to Dōjō (without any discussion that I can find) because the word is of Japanese origin. Similar page moves were made by the same editor for other "words of Japanese origin" like the one being discussed at Talk:Shogi#Shōgi, so perhaps this page move might also need discussion as well. I was going to file a request at WP:RMTR to have the page moved back as an "undiscussed" move, but I figured I'd ask for feedback from this WikiProject first. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:50, 6 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

A dōjō (道場) is a place to train, whereas a dojo (泥鰌) is an eel. TheDoctorX (talk) 00:22, 11 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject


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Full contact organisations?


Karate Combat is a full contact karate organisation by the WKF does it deserve an article? Dwanyewest (talk) 20:25, 4 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

These are good sources [4][5][6][7] [8]Dwanyewest (talk) 09:43, 5 June 2018 (UTC)Reply


I would like to suggest that athlete's official records be linked from here. Mixed Martial Arts LLC which owns and operates is the Official Record Keeper for the Association of Boxing Commissions. It is the only database for which event results are required to be submitted by state, tribal, and provincial commission to be included as official.

For example:

It also has an active suspension state for athletes currently under medical or administrative suspensions.

The Association of Boxing Commissions recently released a vow of support on their website for this effort as well:

Happy to answer any questions.

12:09, 29 October 2018 (UTC)pqMMA

  • Reply I am of course not familiar with the adjudication of MMA records here on Wiki, my point being that MMA athletes already have links to both Sherdog and BoxRec, neither of which are official, therefore are not scrutinized for accuracy by any authority such as the grouping of states, tribal, and athletic commissions in North America but is growing to include international commissions as well.

Additionally neither of these sources include active suspension information of athletes, something of paramount safety to athletes competing.

20:02, 29 October 2018 (UTC)pqMMA

Naming conventions for Olympic wrestling articles


Please chip in at the wrestling at the Summer Olympics talk page if you have thoughts on the matter. Schwede66 18:58, 10 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

WP 1.0 Bot Beta


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A new newsletter directory is out!


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Marie-Eve Dicaire


There's something weird going on there, because if she won her first (karate) title at 18, this was in 2004. It's not that long ago, but I can find no record of a win at the 2004 World Karate Championships by her, or indeed at ANY edition of that competition at all. Every single mention is either from the Yvon Michel promotion material or a source that's clearly parroting that.

this article mentions a world championship at DisneyWorld in november 2008, and Dicaire is cited as a former champion. this is clearly not a WKF competition (the World Championship was in Tokyo that year), so what is actually involved is probably some form of Kenpo or full contact karate, possibly even kickboxing.

Clearly Yvon Michel Group is using "Karate" very loosely for promotional purposes, and Dicaire probably does have some titles, just not the ones people would assume from their material. I'm not particularly knowledgeable in martial arts, so I really wouldn't know where to look to figure out what's really being talked about. Circéus (talk) 19:07, 12 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

Sorry Circeus for not responding sooner, but I've cut my WP editing way back. She's notable as a boxer, not as any other kind of martial artist. The reference you give doesn't say she was a champion that year, rather it says the new champion is like her. DisneyWorld is home to many martial arts "world championships" from a lot of organizations. Most of them do not carry much, if any, significance and are geared to kids. Note the article you referenced says Canada won something like 136 medals and most of the competitors mentioned are children. In addition, the WP article doesn't really mention her karate except for claiming titles on her own web page. She's not even listed in any karate categories, which I think is indicative of her karate achievements. Of course, there's no question she's WP notable as a boxer. Papaursa (talk) 19:14, 22 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Nomination of Portal:Karate for deletion


A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Karate is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Karate until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 00:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Portal:Martial arts


Proposal to delete all portals

The discussion is at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to delete Portal space. Voceditenore (talk) 07:49, 23 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool


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Page move discussion


An editor has requested that {{subst:linked|Kobudō}} be moved to {{subst:#if:|{{subst:linked|{{{2}}}}}|another page}}{{subst:#switch: project |user | USER = . Since you had some involvement with 'Kobudō', you |#default = , which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You}} are invited to participate in [[{{subst:#if:|{{subst:#if:|#{{{section}}}|}}|{{subst:#if:|Talk:Kobudō#{{{section}}}|{{subst:TALKPAGENAME:Kobudō}}}}}}|the move discussion]]. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:44, 27 October 2019 (UTC)Reply



ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championship is so big some templates are not showing


I've opened a discussion at Talk:ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championship#This article is so big it is causing technical problems. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:47, 10 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Draft:Darryn Melerine


I came across this draft via WP:THQ#Help with article, and it doesn’t seem as if the subject meets WP:GNG or WP:BIO. I am, however, wondering if there a WP:SNG specifically for martial artists that he might meet. The editor creating the article has declared a WP:COI and is also likely subject to WP:PAID as well; so, if an article (even a stub) can be created, they are not really the best the person to do so. Perhaps, someone from this WikiProject could at least clarify what kinds of things generally make a martial artist Wikipedia notable. — Marchjuly (talk) 23:08, 20 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Chinese and Vietnamese versions of the gun and the jian


This dispute resolution is regarding similarities of the Chinese and Vietnamese versions of the gun and the jian. SpinnerLaserz (talk) 03:18, 7 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

Notability of national taekwondo federation


Is a national taekwondo sports organization notable, if it a member of the international federation governing the sport which is a member of the Association of Summer Olympic International Federations? See Draft:Israel Taekwondo Federation. Thanks. --2604:2000:E010:1100:3078:18A6:187C:8568 (talk) 04:55, 17 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

Jeong Yim


Could someone with some expertise in this area (I know nothing about it) please look at Jeong Yim, which has had a mass of unsourced + PoV edits - thanks - Arjayay (talk) 14:58, 18 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

ARTICLE REQUEST: 6 time BJJ World Champion Paulo Sergio Santos


Hello, I would like to request your help in creating an article on 6-time Brazilian jiu Jitsu world champion Paulo Sergio Santos. I've filed the request for an article under Sports -> martial arts in requests, but I was wondering if you'd have the time to help kick it off and create the initial page? In the request, there are several useful links including: I would write it myself, but I have a conflict of interest since I have trained with him before and therefore I'm not impartial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BasicsOnly (talkcontribs) 23:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

If subject is not in any national news sources he won’t meet notability, even a local newspaper isn’t enough. Australianblackbelt (talk) 09:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Need help with draft article on Pedro Sauer


I am trying to create a new Wikipedia entry for Jiu-Jitsu instructor Pedro Sauer. I believe that given his relationship with the Gracies, his rank and the respect he has within the sport, the success of some of his former students as well as the size of his organization make him notable enough to warrant the creation of a Wikipedia page. That being said, he had an article prior to my attempt which was deleted. I am looking for anybody that would be interested in improving this article to ensure that it has the greatest chance of being approved. Thank you in advance. You can read what I have so far, here. Asm20 (talk) 20:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

Abandoned user draft with wrestling tables


I came across User:Emilysilver1990. Please assess whether any of it can be used. – Fayenatic London 21:49, 15 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

Draft:Cheick Sidibé


Should this draft be accepted or rejected and why? Thanks for any input you can provide! Calliopejen1 (talk) 06:10, 30 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

Aikido FAR


I have nominated Aikido for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:10, 5 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Karate Association of Darbhanga


Could some member(s) from this WP:MARTIAL take a look at this and assess it? There is some formatting/MOS cleanup that is needed, but it’s not clear if the organization is notable. At first glance, meeting WP:NORG looks a bit iffy, but perhaps there is some notability criterion for martial arts related organizations which is being met. There might also be some COI editing involved, but that can be sorted out if that’s really the case. For reference, I came across this at WP:THQ#How to index Article page in Google search. In addition, the article didn’t go through WP:AFC. — Marchjuly (talk) 22:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Adding Draft:Aniket Gupta as well since it appears it’s also going to be moved to the mainspace by one of the involved editors without going through AFC. — Marchjuly (talk) 22:42, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
I looked at both of these articles and am inclined to say I don't think either of them look particularly notable. The Karate Association article needs to have sources on articles that are about it, not just showing that the association exists or runs competitions. As for Aniket Gupta, a world ranking of 150th is a long way from showing notability and I found nothing to show he's ever competed at the highest level. An appearance at the 2007 junior and cadet world championships doesn't show notability. His best shot at notability may be to find articles that show he meets WP:GNG. Of course, other editors may have different opinions. Please note that I didn't search for sources, I just looked at what was in the articles and at Gupta's record at the WKF website. Papaursa (talk) 23:32, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for taking a look at these Papaursa. Apparently the creator(s) of both the aforementioned article and draft have been blockd per WP:SOCK. Both the article and draft have been tagged for speedy deletion per WP:G5; so, unless someone feels they're worth keeping and wants to improve them, they are likely to be deleted fairly soon. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:26, 21 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Felix Leong


Can someone experienced check this article out? It's more-or-less ruled by a particular user who's very keen on including poor-quality sources and details of things like non-notable students, and given his username would appear to BE one of the students... claims made about being a successor to Ip Chun aren't sourced by anything whatsoever other than a couple of articles in local news about the burning down of his school and its reconstruction, where his alleged "coming from a martial arts family", position as recognised representative of Ip Chun "in Adelaide, Australia" and so forth are provided, presumably from the article subject's own mouth. No reliable published sources, external sources, or anything I could find, and the user in charge has not responded on several occasions to queries regarding better sources. He also insists on making sure Felix Leong is mentioned at length (where no other representatives are) in- and appears in a photograph on- Ip Chun's own article, which in light of the aforementioned lack of quality sources supporting the whole situation seems rather questionable. Many thanks.— Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:49, 19 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

The above user has previously deleted all mention of Felix Leong from Ip Chun’s article. Leong has been on channel 10 news and featured in the Latin Australian times national print newspaper which is out of print. The user has been trolling other pages I have created. It’s pathetic how jealous of Felix Leong this guy is Australianblackbelt (talk) 22:59, 25 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
Next time I visit Felix Leong’s academy I will take a photo of the first ever certificate issued by Ip Chun’s athletic Association to Felix leong marked 001 and upload it to Wikipedia Australianblackbelt (talk) 05:49, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
I'm not a member of this WikiProject, but I wouldn't suggest doing that such a thing because it might be considered a copyright violation if you do; moreover, it wouldn't probably really be much in the form of verifiable proof, at least for Wikipedia purposes. Just speaking in general terms here, but you'd be better off to look for old magazines or other types of reliable WP:SECONDARY sources which might verify the claim you're trying to support. They don't need to be available online and they don't even need to be in English; they only need to be reliable as well as published and reasonably acceptable. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
Thanks @Marchjuly Australianblackbelt (talk) 10:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
Old magazine page 7 says Felix Leong is Ip Chun’s leading student Australianblackbelt (talk) 20:52, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
I'm not sure if that's not more of a newsletter than a magazine, and it's also from a Motorcycle Rider's Assocation, which most like not going to be considered an authority on martial arts. Someone from this WikiProject might have to take a look and assess that as a reliable source. Even if we assume it is a reliable source, Leong is mentioned by name twice in the "magazine": once on page 7 as you say and once in an advertisement for his academy on page 2; so, again I'm sure how strongly I would advocate this as being a reliable source for saying anything about Leong other than possibly perhaps some very general information about Chun's tour. In addition, Leong probbaly bought the ad and by doing so might have then been allowed to either directy write or at least have some editorial input on the blurb (which reads a bit like a PR release) that mentions him on page 7; after all, Leong is describe as the organizer of the tour being discussed in the blurb. Moreover, calling someone a "leading student" is a bit vague and WP:PUFF like unless your simply want to support a claim that the Motorcycle Rider's Association described Leong as such in the September 1987 issue of it's magazine. You can't and shouldn't really try to interpret it as verifiable proof for anything more than that.
My personal opinion is that, in a general Wikipedia sense of things, it would be much better for you to find things about Leong that come from reliable sources with an established reputation of editorial control like major newpspapers or magazines, or books published by reputable publishers that aren't written by unnamed authors and which do more than mention Leong simply by name or in a brief sentence. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:08, 28 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
I took a quick look at the Felix Leong WP article and was not impressed by the sources, which seem to be mainly local color pieces. The article in the motorcycle magazine does nothing to show any notability for Leong, even if the source could be considered reliable and independent (which is unclear/unlikely). Papaursa (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Leong has been covered by channel 9 news and channel 10 news that’s two of the 3 largest mainstream networks in Australia as well as national newspaper so I’m not arguing about notability but that Leong is Ip Chun’s student Australianblackbelt (talk) 04:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
After this discussion, Australianblackbelt has done exactly nothing whatsoever to support the article's claims with superior published sources. Is there seriously nothing that can be done by someone in charge of this project to get Australianblackbelt to provide some legitimate, published secondary sources for this Felix Leong that aren't just local media reflecting what could, for all one knows, be baseless/ exaggerated claims made by Leong himself or people close to him? The Felix Leong article remains as it always has been, full of big claims that lack serious, respected sources. For one thing, if he's the official representative of Ip Chun, there would be some kind of proper reference to him somewhere. Plus the fact that Ip Chun's article disproportionately emphasises Felix Leong as his representative, features in one of only two pictures on that article... it just doesn't sit right from an impartial point of view, when it's clear Australianblackbelt has some investment in maintaining the situation to his liking as it currently is. Why should Ip Chun's representative in Adelaide, Australia be more important than any other? None of Ip Chun's other non-celebrity students receive this treatment. Felix Leong is listed in the infobox alongside illustrious, noteworthy individuals like Donnie Yen and Bai Jing, for goodness' sake. It's clear from Australianblackbelt's user name that he's somehow connected to Felix Leong, even if only as an ardent admirer, and it's just such a shame to see Wikipedia used in this way to further an individual's agenda. I can understand respecting someone important in the community (if not on a larger scale...) but this is questionable. It's clear from the above discussion that there are doubts regarding the notability of Felix Leong and the quality of the sources provided, but something really ought to be done to get this article up to standard/ remove unsupported claims from comparatively low-quality local news sources. When queried, Australianblackbelt simply makes accusations of "vandalism", "trolling", or "jealousy" of Felix Leong. This is hardly productive, and the article simply remains a low-quality puff piece.— Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:25, 3 November 2020 (UTC)Reply
Why are you trolling Felix you just deleted him in Ip Chun’s notable students. Why did you never delete any of the unsourced stuff from other wing chun masters? Wong shun long has a list if 30 students on his article and other articles were using club websites as sources but you didn’t touch those. You have a biased problem with Felix Leong. His articles are not local the are national and all from Journalists. Felix Leong is the number one wing chun master in the world so go cry in your room Australianblackbelt (talk) 14:40, 29 November 2020 (UTC)Reply
Based on this last ridiculous response, can someone with authority here do SOMETHING to bring all this Felix Leong nonsense in line with Wikipedia policy? "Felix Leong is the number one wing chun master in the world" clearly shows this delusional individual's bias, and the fact that he's allowed to not only create a hagiographic poorly-sourced article on this non-entity, but pollute the articles on Wing Chun and Ip Chun, is mind-boggling given the speed and strictness with which edits of his quality are dealt elsewhere on this site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:08, 6 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Just been having another look at your sources (and discounting the provincial local tv news stuff that can't be checked anyway, of course, as well as the city of Adelaide website's own report under the local news "People of Adelaide" section, which speaks for itself in terms of the scale involved here), and read the following guidelines for reliable published sources (at "The term "published" is most commonly associated with text materials, either in traditional printed format or online; however, audio, video, and multimedia materials that have been recorded then broadcast, distributed, or archived by a reputable party may also meet the necessary criteria to be considered reliable sources. Like text, media must be produced by a reliable source and be properly cited. Additionally, an archived copy of the media must exist. It is convenient, but by no means necessary, for the archived copy to be accessible via the Internet."

Given the above required standards, please inform us of the location of the Latin Australian Times archive, presumably in Australia (there being no evidence of any such thing online, but as the guidelines indicate that's not the be-all and end-all), so I can contact them for corroboration of the citation you rely upon (which is, in fact, the case with most of the articles you've been involved in, which cite similar "no trace of them anywhere" articles, including, for example, Cewekku Jutek, Miss Latina Australia 2016). I note questioning of your use of this source has taken place before:

Incidentally, there's no evidence anywhere of a Raquel Diaz (nor of a Carmen Novoa, upon whose articles you also heavily rely as above) at the Latin Australian Times, which would seem rather strange; in light of this, the options appear to be:

a) the Latin Australian Times is a pre-eminent newspaper, but has "local interest" articles written by local people interested in these small-scale occurrences (like the burning down of a provincial martial arts school); b) the Latin Australian Times is not quite as eminent a publication as you indicate, and its journalists are undistinguished to the extent of leaving no online presence whatsoever (unusual in the extreme, when such is a factor in reputation/ future employment) c) the Latin Australian Times is not very eminent and Raquel Diaz, an otherwise reputable journalist, never saw it worthwhile to mention working there, having moved on to bigger and better things; d) the Latin Australian Times is a minor concern, and the people who work there aren't at all noteworthy/ possibly aren't even really employees, but are just people contributing local colour, like people would to a village newsletter or something of that sort, if on, one is prepared to allow, on a somewhat larger scale.

Its website- indicated here - is dead; nothing much else comes up online at all, which is odd considering you maintain it's a major concern. So, please let us know how to get in touch with this prestigious publication's archive so we can corroborate your contributions. Thanks (talk) 02:03, 6 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Why does the above anonymous user keep deleting all mention of Felix Leong fro Ip Chun and Sum Nung articles?? they are sources, it's just vandalism. As for The Latin Australian Times it is published in Australia which an English speaking not Spanish hence the newspaper is national it has not enough readership to be local. I've created many articles for martial artists not just Felix's Australianblackbelt (talk) 16:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC) Reply

I made this Pan Nam which is more than you’ve ever done and as for Felix he has been on National television news three times, we don’t have local tv channels in Australia your so blind with envy you can’t see the references. All you can do is is attack me personally, why didn’t you delete your mate Michael Tse from the notable student list but you delete Felix? Maybe because you’re a Hypocrite. Australianblackbelt (talk) 20:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Jiu jitsu notability


While looking at at Harry Litman#Personal life, I noticed that the article mentioned that Litman's wife Julie Roskies Litman is a 3-time Jiu jitsu world champion. I'm not sure what that means in terms of Wikipedia notability, and the content seemed a bit WP:NOTEVERYTHING for the Litman article so I removed it, but it would certainly be fine in a stand-alone bio about the wife. Perhaps a WP:STUB could be created about her as a former world champion? The sources cited are just three pdfs of results ([9], [10], [11]) and she's listed on them, but I'm not sure what "Masters" class means in terms of competitive jiu jitsu. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:22, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

She's not close to being notable as a martial artist. None of her medals have come at the highest level of competition. She has 1 championship as a blue belt (out of 3 competitors) and one as a purple belt (only competitor in class). Blue belt is the lowest level of IBJJF competition and purple is just above that--nothing close to black belt. Masters competition is based on age, while also separating by rank, gender, and weight. I believe the IBJJF starts Master levels for those 30+ and each level above that adds 5 years. That would mean her title in Master 4 would be for female purple belts roughly between the ages of 45 and 50 (and she was the only competitor in the open weight division). Papaursa (talk) 19:14, 25 September 2020 (UTC)Reply
Thanks Papaursa for taking a look at this. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:38, 25 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Red Boat Opera Company


Hi Papaursa can you please do me a small favour and change Red Boat Opera Troupe to Red Boat Opera Company, I don’t know how to do it. Australianblackbelt (talk) 01:37, 8 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Australianblackbelt I would suggest you look at WP:MOVE. The reason I don't want to do it is that I'm not involved in that article and I'm not 100% sure that is the best move. I looked at the article and its sources and I see none of them appear to be reliable and independent references, plus one I get a 404 error on. The Kung Fu Tea article refers to the Red Boat Opera Companies (plural, not singular). Their story sounds interesting, but legend is not enough to show WP notability. It seems like there should be academic sources on them. It's not that I don't want to help, but rather that I'd not get involved in something I'm not sure of. Sorry. Papaursa (talk) 19:59, 10 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Thanks Papaursa Ive made the change and added credible soources. Australianblackbelt (talk) 04:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Peacock issue and non-credible sources


Wong Shun Leung Article has greatly exaggerated subject in every conceivable way with non-credible sources such as and student websites. is like wikipedia without sources which anybody can write on.

The article pushes the idea than Wong trained Bruce Lee by Wong's students. The same can be said about William Cheung whom introduced Lee to Ip Man but his article does no such thing nor uses student websites as sources. It is rather hard to believe that the testimony of Wong's student claiming Bruce Lee fought Wong and Wong was faster, article also claims that the wing chun community believes that Wong was the greatest fighter of the 20th century and only people outside of wing chun don't believe it, this is typical peacocking. Anthony Arnett has won thousands of trophies in martial arts and Yuen Kay Shan was the famous 1000 death duel champion,Felix Leong held a Pacific champion title... that is the reality for the Wing Chun community at large. Also a filmography heading when Wong was never featured in any movies, he never choreographed anything

Wong's own claims are fine as long as they are on a credible third party source like a magazine or newspaper but his own website or student websites are definitely non credible and are bias sources.

This article contains a directory of over 30 of Wong's students based on adding to the fact that this article looks like a personal blog. Australianblackbelt (talk) 17:21, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Australianblackbelt Sorry, but I'll admit I don't know what this post is for. I'd suggest you go ahead and be WP:BOLD with your changes. Remove, or at least flag, questionable claims. As for the list of students, I thought that WP norms usually are to remove names that don't link to individual articles. Papaursa (talk) 00:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
The page is fixed it has been left with only credible sources although the chinese references I can not verify. The list of students should not be there however I am not going to be the one to delete them. Australianblackbelt (talk) 13:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
I removed the list of students. All of the ones with WP articles are listed in the article's infobox. Papaursa (talk) 01:23, 21 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

7 articles listed for deletion


Hi guys, I have listed the following 2 martial artists articles for deletion Kenneth Chung and Eddie Chong it is steight foward as they do not have sources. Australianblackbelt (talk) 17:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi guys n gals there are so few people participating in Wikipedia these days so please head over and vote for martial arts articles nominated for deletion thanks Australianblackbelt (talk) 03:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Articles for deletiom here Australianblackbelt (talk) 04:13, 25 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Draft:World Vale Tudo Championship


Hello fellow editors. The above topic is waiting for a review at WP:AFC. I don't know anything about fighting, so I'm reporting it here in hopes that someone who does will review it.—Anne Delong (talk) 13:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Tetsuro Nitta: The topic seems like one that an article could be created on. However, it needs better sources than just links to results. It needs good third party sources that make a case as to why those events and results were significant. Perhaps some books on the history of MMA can provide context. As it currently stands, I don't think it's ready for WP main space. Papaursa (talk) 01:00, 28 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Thanks, Papaursa, for taking the time to look at the draft.—Anne Delong (talk) 06:55, 28 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Are these fighters notable?



I am interested in some Romanian mixed martial artists and not only. You tell me if they are notable!

Diana Belbiţă - fought twice in UFC (1 loss by submission, 1 loss by decision), twice in KSW - the largest Polish promotion and twice in RXF - the largest Romanian promotion (I think she also held title there); Romanian television personality, very popular (the most popular female Romanian fighting person)

Cristina Stanciu - lost 2 decisions in UFC, undefeated in Romania and former champion of the RXF - the largest Romanian promotion; 1st Romanian and 1st female Romanian to fight in UFC

Nicolae Negumereanu, RXF Light Heavyweight champion, undefeated 9-0 in Romania, lost by decision on his UFC debut in 2019; 1st male Romanian to fight in UFC

George Pacurariu, 1st Romanian MMA artist to fight in the United States/Bellator, 2 fights in Bellator (1 win), 6 fights in Legacy Fighting Alliance

Marius Enache, Romanian American, 1/1 in Bellator

Ion Pascu qualified, right?

.karellian-24 (talk) 18:39, 29 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@.karellian-24: It doesn't appear that any of these fighters meet WP:NMMA, at least not yet. However, that doesn't mean they don't meet WP:GNG. I didn't check for that. Success in the RXF doesn't guarantee notability as it doesn't seem a good predictor of success anywhere else. For example, Diana Belbita won 11 of 12 fights in the RXF and 1 of 6 in the KSW, LFN, and UFC. Papaursa (talk) 12:32, 31 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
@Papaursa: First of all, thanks! I know, that's why I am asking. For Negumereanu and Stanciu could be a criteria, being the 1st male and female Romanians in the UFC??? Stanciu is actually the 1st Romanian artist who fought in UFC. They don't have 3 fights in UFC, but Stanciu and Belbiţă have 2. Negumereanu only 1 but is the 1st Romanian male ever to fight in the UFC. Also, Belbiţă being highly popular in television in Romania can make her notable too? What about national titles such as Kempo (Kenpo)? Plus some are also world/european champions in kempo. But I know they are national champions surely. Normally on Wikipedia I have seen pages standing, meeting criterias, if they disputed national championships finals. If they are boxing/judo/wrestling/sambo/etc champions or runners-up. I am asking because you have more experience in MMA. I have just completed RXF results over the years. Maybe in time they will produce something for the big stage, but indeed big in Romania is only kickboxing. There are also some foreigners without page, with several fights in United States coming out from this promotion. .karellian-24 (talk) 13:02, 31 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
I think that being the first male and female Romanians in the UFC is worth mentioning in the article, but I don't think most editors will give it much weight towards showing notability. Since none of them meet WP:NMMA, you'd have to show they meet WP:GNG. That would require showing they had significant independent coverage excluding routine sports reporting. If they were champions in a martial art (the higher the level, the better) that could help show notability. If they received press coverage for something unrelated to MMA (such as acting, modeling, painting, singing, charity work, etc.) that would help a claim of notability. WP:GNG is generally done on a case by case basis, while SNGs (like WP:NMMA and WP:NKICK) are usually more quantitative and clear cut, although there are no guarantees how any editor will view things. Papaursa (talk) 23:46, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club


I was wondering if some editors could take a look at this article and assess it. I think wrestling falls under the scope of WP:MARTIAL, but not sure. I’m also not sure how amateur athletic sports teams/clubs are treated, especially when they don’t appear to be any type of university/school team. It doesn’t seem as if this would meet WP:NORG or even WP:NTEAM, but maybe there’s some other WP:SNG for martial arts it might meet. — Marchjuly (talk) 18:20, 9 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

AMAA Who's Who in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame


Could someone from this WikiProject take a look at AMAA Who's Who in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame and assess it? It appears to have been created directly in the mainspace. Since it didn’t go through WP:AFC and didn’t have a talk page until to today, it never seems to have been assessed. There’s no article about the American Martial Arts Alliance itself, it’s a bit odd that there would an article one of its awards ceremonies or its HOF. — Marchjuly (talk) 22:09, 9 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Muay Thai


Muay Thai/Muay Boran Muay Thai is the National fighting sport of Thailand — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C6:0:1AA0:3CA8:C9A1:7F78:25D7 (talk) 23:43, 5 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

"Kung Fu" media franchise


With the launch of the reboot Kung Fu (2021 TV series); it seems it is time to create a franchise article, instead of using the Kung Fu (1972 TV series) article as an ersatz franchise article. Kung Fu (media franchise) could be started with a partial copy partial split from the 1972 article and expansion. A shorter summary of the follow-ups and sequels would be left behind, that being for the franchise article. The dispute between production and plagiarism with Bruce Lee can be expanded on with content from Warrior (TV series), that was inspired by Lee's original pitch. -- (talk) 16:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

"File:Yin and Yang symbol.svg" and "File:Yin yang.svg"


FYI File:Yin and Yang symbol.svg and File:Yin yang.svg have recently been subject to being repeatedly overwritten by a different design, over at Commons. There is a discussion open at COMMONS:COM:Village Pump on the issue. -- (talk) 08:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Girish R Gowda article


Wondering if the Girish R Gowda article should be removed due to it relying heavily on a news piece written by Girish R Gowda himself. The article has had issues flagged with it since 2019 with no improvement in that time. Could I please request someone review this one? Cheers! Abacrombi (talk) 14:45, 30 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

It doesn't look to me like he meets any of the notability criteria for kickboxers (WP:NKICK). However, there does seem to be some coverage concerning his fighting after his cancer diagnosis. It may be that a case can be made for him meeting WP:GNG. It's possible that a good search of Indian sources might find enough coverage to show WP notability. I don't want to take the time to do a thorough search for Indian sources that might clearly determine his notability. I'd say the article has potential and that it's not a "no-brainer" delete. Papaursa (talk) 03:16, 4 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Draft:Ehsan Naghibzadeh


Hi there Could someone review our aritcle: Draft:Ehsan Naghibzadeh ? We were redirected to you, and we should ask if someone is interested in reviewing the article I wrote. I wrote it for my friend in his name. He is a sports man and is currently preparing for the upcoming olympic games. Because we need to find sponsors we would like to have an wikipedia article asap, as this would help us. could someone take over reviewing it? That would be amazing and we would highly appreciate it. Thank you and best regards, lisa

Draft:Ehsan Naghibzadeh

Mohadese Honarmand


Would someone from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Mohadese Honarmand and assessing it for Wikipedia notability? It's a newly created article and all of the sources are in Persian (Farsi) which I cannot read. One of the sources appears to be a WP:UGC, but the others seem to be to various "news agencies" which might be acceptable. I'm not sure if being a member of a national team or the medals she one would make her notable in a Wikipedia sense, but I'm not familiar with the notablity guidelines for martial artists. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Request for help


Hello. Recently published an article (ชินเดนไค) on the Thai Wikipedia that needs to be reviewed and edited. Please help who's active on the Thai Wikipedia to maintain this page with proper translation or editing. Sincerely MMA Kid (talk) 15:14, 30 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Cannabis and sports


New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)Reply



Please see the discussion about a mass deletion from a judo article re an issue prominent at this week's Olympics ( .. the discussion is here ..

--2603:7000:2143:8500:C973:7CDF:4B58:F48B (talk) 15:21, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply



Hi guys. The Template:Infobox martial artist has bug on native name. Please check one of the admins. AriaTess (talk) 05:30, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

WikiProject Judo


I was thinking of starting a Wikipedia:WikiProject Judo under this WikiProject, to discuss and formulate Manuals of Style for articles relating to judo. For example, MoS' for judoka, judo competitions etc. We could also plan joint efforts to build new articles together.

Pinging some useres that might be interested: JanPleun, CanadianJudoka, Simeon, DrAndCol, Raval77, Almagestas, DroopyDoggy, UHShe4Life & Kante4.
Appreciating your contribution, Deancarmeli (talk) 21:17, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

Adam Hsu at risk of deletion


Hi. I would just like to inform any Chinese Martial Arts fans and experts that Adam Hsu is being considered for deletion.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adam Hsu
If anybody who knows anything can say in otherwise, please act on this immediately. -- TrickShotFinn (talk) 10:10, 19 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Crisis averted. User:Cunard came through. -- TrickShotFinn (talk) 07:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

How to fix Ekaterina Vandaryeva's page


How can I fix Ekaterina Vandaryeva's page so it says that she won the World Kickboxing Network against Joanna Jędrzejczyk on her kickboxing record. Dwanyewest (talk) 00:15, 24 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Cassiopeia, Frenchcafe Do you know how to fix it? Dwanyewest (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Dwanyewest You can add the info in and there are the sources - -1, -2, -3, -4 and -5. Stay safe. Cassiopeia talk 05:25, 2 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Ivan Trajkovič


Are there any taekwondo-specialists in this project? I think Ivan Trajkovič needs expansion, but I don't know where to start, sources-wise. I've quickly Googled and added one reference and some information but cannot get any further. Red Fiona (talk) 23:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Info on this guy appears to be sparse on Slovenian wikipedia as well. -- TrickShotFinn (talk) 10:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Zayed AlKatheeri


Hello, WikiProject,

This fellow doesn't look notable to me but I hesitate to judge notability in any sport I'm unfamiliar with. What do you think? Liz Read! Talk! 20:20, 3 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Pop Culture sections


Hi, there's been a editor by the handle of User:Bverji, who has been going around deleting pop-culture and related sections from martial arts-related pages. I'm currently not aware of what has prompted this - with the editor in question citing the justification being "practitioners and cultural section removed for being non-sourced, irrelevant, and advertising". Even if these sections have sourced information.

Is there a consensus that the Pop Culture sections on pages are redundant and should be removed? I'm asking just to be sure - as this Bverji appears to be a quite a battlesome editor judging from the editor's contributions.

As far as I'm concerned, information of when martial arts styles got popular and if these styles impact media and wise-versa is quite useful and relevant in understanding the whole picture of the martial art. Probably just listing some fictional practitioners may not be best idea, though. -- TrickShotFinn (talk) 10:22, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Almost all of these references have been UNSOURCED, Most all of the references fail to refer to other wiki pages and failed to explain cultural effects and thus only served to ADVERTISE Having lists of names does very little to explain what these things are without referring to outside sources, nor explaining the effect it had on popular culture or the martial art, so they don't really add information explaining the martial arts on the Wikipedia page. If there was substantial accompanying information I left such section unedited, but lists of names with little-to-no relevant supporting text serve no purpose other than to junk up pages and provide a space for people to promote their "favorites."
I agree with you wholeheartedly that "information of when martial arts styles got popular and if these styles impact media and wise-versa is quite useful and relevant in understanding the whole picture of the martial art." but that is not what these sections were doing. They were simply open lists that did not contribute to understanding the martial arts and only served to promote BRANDS (shows, people, organizations) on the martial art Wikipedia pages. Things obviously need to be sourced, and there is direction that lists should be accompanied with pros and not be overly broad.
Also most of these sections were added by two editors (likely the same editor) within a day of me reverting them, which is what prompted me to do these reverts because they were done across different martial art pages by this/these individuals, who clearly had a motive of proting these couple of brands.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bverji (talkcontribs) 13:54, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

One thumbrule I want from Pop-culture sections that they would be written in prose, rather than needlessly listing small exhibitons. I think Karate#In_film_and_popular_culture is a good example. -- TrickShotFinn (talk) 06:57, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Numerous "[year] Dan Kolov & Nikola Petrov Tournament" wrestling articles with no parent article. (Contains text copied from 2012 Dan Kolov & Nikola Petrov Tournament, and subsequent years 2013-2019, 2021-2022 - please see those article's history for attribution)


Hi all,

There are a number of articles if the format "[year] Dan Kolov & Nikola Petrov Tournament", but I can see (as an WP:Admin) that a parent article Dan Kolov & Nikola Petrov Tournament/Dan Kolov and Nikola Petrov Tournament/Dan Kolov - Nikola Petrov/Dan Kolov - Nikola Petrov (with hyphen)/Dan Kolov–Nikola Petrov (with en-dash)/Dan Kolov—Nikola Petrov (with em-dash) has never been created.

Please see:

As far as I can see, the tournament is arranged by the Bulgarian Wrestling Federation (another article that has never been created - compare Turkish Wrestling Federation, for example).

I would appreciate your opinions about this.

Peter in Australia aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:47, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Kunlun Mountain Fist


I have strong suspicions that Kunlun Mountain Fist is a hoax, as I get no hits on Google except for Wikipedia mirrors. Could someone with knowledge of Chinese figure out what's going on here? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 17:59, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Some sources do seem to appear at Google Books. But I'm bit on the opinion that there is certain lack of notability to justify Kunlunquan's entry. Not to mention, I would much prefer to have some quotation in the citations. It also seems most of the info in the Eng page is from the Italian language entry. TrickShotFinn (talk) 12:40, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

User script to detect unreliable sources


I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

  • John Smith "Article of things" Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[ Article of things]" ''''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

I found a mistake


Dear Sir I noticed a mistake in the Wikipedia article “1968 European karate championships”. The article claims that in 1968 European Championships Switzerland team won the third place. In fact the losing semifinalists of that championships (both sharing the third place) were Italy and Yugoslavia, not Italy and Switzerland. I was there and I reported for Black Belt magazine, and to offer more evidence I point at the history of the WKF below. I hope you will correct the obvious mistake. The history of the World Karate Federation WKF “The results of the 3rd European Championships are the following: in team, France beats Belgium. Semi-finalists: Italy and Yugoslavia. In individuals, Sauvin (FRA) beats Valera (FRA°, semi-finalists Kosakowitch (BEL) and Grossetete (SUI). M. Collyn protests against the fact that France and Yugoslavia agreed on the name of a referee concerning the match opposing them.” I also suggest you read my article in Black Belt magazine available on Cordially Zarko ModricZmodric (talk) 03:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Valentina Azarova


Can anyone who knows about Brazilian jiu-jitsu tell me if the above is notable? Her article has a notability tag on right now, and previously (IMO) unduly emphasised her past pornographic career (and also didn't specify which form of jiu-jitsu she was notable for). Thanks in advance! QueenofBithynia (talk) 15:21, 5 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

She's definitely not notable for her BJJ. Competing as a purple belt is a long way from competing as a black belt, which is the only thing that might be considered notable for martial arts (see WP:MANOTE). Papaursa (talk) 11:24, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Draft:Bryan Battle


Looks like this satisfies the fight noteability criteria and GNG. Any chance anyone can improve this draft and move to mainspace if it qualifies?--Ortizesp (talk) 05:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

With a ranking of 133rd, he's not close to meeting WP:NMMA. The coverage is databases, fight announcements, and fight results. That's coverage every fighter gets and doesn't meet WP:GNG. He's off to a good start, but I'd say it's WP:TOOSOON for a WP article on him. Papaursa (talk) 11:28, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

World's youngest blackbelts??


I came across this article about Selvan K. Srivishakan and Kumari K. Sriharini, 12-year-old twins from India who according to the sources are the world's youngest karate blackbelts. This had been draftified but the author moved it back to mainspace themselves. While there are lots of articles about them in Indian newspapers, I was unable to find primary sources to back up the claims. The various record books don't have Wikipedia articles and I cannot determine whether they are reliable. The list of competitions doesn't have wikilinks to the various events and I couldn't work out which articles (if any) they relate to. It would be great if subject experts (ideally from India) could take a look, verify the claims against official sources and add wikilinks to the events, medals and publications. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 13:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Oh my goodness. If this video [12] is anything to go by then their black belt status would not be given in most legitimate dojos, their ability looks average for their age. I am amazed that they have been awarded a black belt (apparently full not junior), with this level of ability. There is a real suggestion here that their story has been pushed to local press sources in India and all these Indian 'records books' for financial benefit or for advertising purposes for their club/sensei, someone is running their Youtube channel for example: [13]. There are 'young blackbelts' all around the world, there was a 9/10 year old in one of my clubs in the UK for example, but there was no press coverage of that. The claims are not verifiable internationally. The only way that this could become notable would be if there were reputable sources in the Guiness Book of records or similar that have actually been researched. I personally don't beleive that these children have won over 200 awards, they have likely been given those 'internally' by their club. I feel sorry for them as they will realise in 4-5 years that they are average, as soon as they go outside their club bubble. I will tag the page for deletion. Mountaincirquetalk 15:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

FAR for Ernest Emerson


I have nominated Ernest Emerson for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Z1720 (talk) 23:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

KO vs TKO sourcing dispute


Hello, members of this WikiProject may be interested in this discussion as there is currently a dispute around contradictory sources in regards to how an MMA fight ended. Thanks. — Czello 19:56, 9 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

AMAA Who's Who in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame (again)


Would someone from WP:MARTIAL take a look at AMAA Who's Who in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame? I asked about it above a little more than two years ago and it still needs some attention and cleanup. If the article’s subject is indeed notable for an article to be written about it, then probably lots of trimming of unsourced content is needed. The article remains mostly unedited except for minor edits, but once in a while some newly created account (which may be connected to the subject in some way) shows up to edit it. Perhaps some more experienced with respect to articles about martial arts could look it over and assess what is cruft and what is encyclopedic? — Marchjuly (talk) 09:59, 22 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I think there's much to dislike about this article. There is basically no independent coverage of this particular hall of fame. Martial arts "hall of fames" are generally not notable because there is no standard and there are so many of them. The coverage is either by the AMAA itself or of the "so and so was inducted into this hall of fame" variety, none of which shows the significant independent coverage required by WP:GNG. All of the article's intro is an attempt to show that the hall of fame's creator, Jessie Bowen, is a notable martial artist--but it fails and is irrelevant to the hall's WP notability. Listing the members is an attempt to show notability, but WP:NOTINHERITED applies. Personally, I see nothing to support having this article on WP. Papaursa (talk) 00:18, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for taking a look at this Papaursa. I believe the same user (Australianblackbelt) who created the article also created American Martial Arts Alliance, which seems to have similar issues needing to be resolved. If I remeber correctly, the creator also was connected to the AMAA is some way. The Neither article was created via WP:AFC and thus never really got assessed per WP:NORG. The creator was indefinitely blocked a week or so for WP:NOTHERE reasons per Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1116#Personal attack - Australianblackbelt, but there have been issues regarding their edits and image uploads going back further than that. Anyway, I did some rudimentary cleanup of the tables in the HOF article, but I can really find any secondary sources discussing it. If it doesn't mean some WikiProject Martial Arts guideline for such orgnaizations/HOFs, then I can see how it meets the more general NORG. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:31, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply
Restoring older Featured articles to standard:
year-end 2022 summary

Unreviewed featured articles/2020 (URFA/2020) is a systematic approach to reviewing older Featured articles (FAs) to ensure they still meet the FA standards. A January 2022 Signpost article called "Forgotten Featured" explored the effort.

Progress is recorded at the monthly stats page. Through 2022, with 4,526 very old (from the 2004–2009 period) and old (2010–2015) FAs initially needing review:

  • 357 FAs were delisted at Featured article review (FAR).
  • 222 FAs were kept at FAR or deemed "satisfactory" by three URFA reviewers, with hundreds more being marked as "satisfactory", but awaiting three reviews.
  • FAs needing review were reduced from 77% of total FAs at the end of 2020 to 64% at the end of 2022.

Of the FAs kept, deemed satisfactory by three reviewers, or delisted, about 60% had prior review between 2004 and 2007; another 20% dated to the period from 2008–2009; and another 20% to 2010–2015. Roughly two-thirds of the old FAs reviewed have retained FA status or been marked "satisfactory", while two-thirds of the very old FAs have been defeatured.

Entering its third year, URFA is working to help maintain FA standards; FAs are being restored not only via FAR, but also via improvements initiated after articles are reviewed and talk pages are noticed. Since the Featured Article Save Award (FASA) was added to the FAR process a year ago, 38 FAs were restored to FA status by editors other than the original FAC nominator. Ten FAs restored to status have been listed at WP:MILLION, recognizing articles with annual readership over a million pageviews, and many have been rerun as Today's featured article, helping increase mainpage diversity.

Examples of 2022 "FAR saves" of very old featured articles
All received a Million Award

But there remain almost 4,000 old and very old FAs to be reviewed. Some topic areas and WikiProjects have been more proactive than others in restoring or maintaining their old FAs. As seen in the chart below, the following have very high ratios of FAs kept to those delisted (ordered from highest ratio):

  • Biology
  • Physics and astronomy
  • Warfare
  • Video gaming

and others have a good ratio of kept to delisted FAs:

  • Literature and theatre
  • Engineering and technology
  • Religion, mysticism and mythology
  • Media
  • Geology and geophysics

... so kudos to those editors who pitched in to help maintain older FAs !

FAs reviewed at URFA/2020 through 2022 by content area
FAs reviewed at URFA/2020 from November 21, 2020 to December 31, 2022 (VO, O)
Topic area Delisted Kept Total
Kept to
(overall 0.62)
Remaining to review
2004–7 promotions
Art, architecture and archaeology 10 6 16 0.60 19
Biology 13 41 54 3.15 67
Business, economics and finance 6 1 7 0.17 2
Chemistry and mineralogy 2 1 3 0.50 7
Computing 4 1 5 0.25 0
Culture and society 9 1 10 0.11 8
Education 22 1 23 0.05 3
Engineering and technology 3 3 6 1.00 5
Food and drink 2 0 2 0.00 3
Geography and places 40 6 46 0.15 22
Geology and geophysics 3 2 5 0.67 1
Health and medicine 8 3 11 0.38 5
Heraldry, honors, and vexillology 11 1 12 0.09 6
History 27 14 41 0.52 38
Language and linguistics 3 0 3 0.00 3
Law 11 1 12 0.09 3
Literature and theatre 13 14 27 1.08 24
Mathematics 1 2 3 2.00 3
Media 14 10 24 0.71 40
Meteorology 15 6 21 0.40 31
Music 27 8 35 0.30 55
Philosophy and psychology 0 1 1 2
Physics and astronomy 3 7 10 2.33 24
Politics and government 19 4 23 0.21 9
Religion, mysticism and mythology 14 14 28 1.00 8
Royalty and nobility 10 6 16 0.60 44
Sport and recreation 32 12 44 0.38 39
Transport 8 2 10 0.25 11
Video gaming 3 5 8 1.67 23
Warfare 26 49 75 1.88 31
Total 359 Note A 222 Note B 581 0.62 536

Noting some minor differences in tallies:

  • A URFA/2020 archives show 357, which does not include those delisted which were featured after 2015; FAR archives show 358, so tally is off by at least one, not worth looking for.
  • B FAR archives show 63 kept at FAR since URFA started at end of Nov 2020. URFA/2020 shows 61 Kept at FAR, meaning two kept were outside of scope of URFA/2020. Total URFA/2020 Keeps (Kept at FAR plus those with three Satisfactory marks) is 150 + 72 = 222.

But looking only at the oldest FAs (from the 2004–2007 period), there are 12 content areas with more than 20 FAs still needing review: Biology, Music, Royalty and nobility, Media, Sport and recreation, History, Warfare, Meteorology, Physics and astronomy, Literature and theatre, Video gaming, and Geography and places. In the coming weeks, URFA/2020 editors will be posting lists to individual WikiProjects with the goal of getting these oldest-of-the-old FAs reviewed during 2023.

Ideas for how you can help are listed below and at the Signpost article.

  • Review a 2004 to 2007 FA. With three "Satisfactory" marks, article can be moved to the FAR not needed section.
  • Review "your" articles: Did you nominate a featured article between 2004 and 2015 that you have continuously maintained? Check these articles, update as needed, and mark them as 'Satisfactory' at URFA/2020. A continuously maintained FA is a good predictor that standards are still met, and with two more "Satisfactory" marks, "your" articles can be listed as "FAR not needed". If they no longer meet the FA standards, please begin the FAR process by posting your concerns on the article's talk page.
  • Review articles that already have one "Satisfactory" mark: more FAs can be indicated as "FAR not needed" if other reviewers will have a look at those already indicated as maintained by the original nominator. If you find issues, you can enter them at the talk page.
  • Fix an existing featured article: Choose an article at URFA/2020 or FAR and bring it back to FA standards. Enlist the help of the original nominator, frequent FA reviewers, WikiProjects listed on the talk page, or editors that have written similar topics. When the article returns to FA standards, please mark it as 'Satisfactory' at URFA/2020 or note your progress in the article's FAR.
  • Review and nominate an article to FAR that has been 'noticed' of a FAR needed but issues raised on talk have not been addressed. Sometimes nominating at FAR draws additional editors to help improve the article that would otherwise not look at it.

More regular URFA and FAR reviewers will help assure that FAs continue to represent examples of Wikipedia's best work. If you have any questions or feedback, please visit Wikipedia talk:Unreviewed featured articles/2020/4Q2022.

FAs last reviewed from 2004 to 2007 of interest to this WikiProject


If you review an article on this list, please add commentary at the article talk page, with a section heading == [[URFA/2020]] review== and also add either Notes or Noticed to WP:URFA/2020A, per the instructions at WP:URFA/2020. Comments added here may be swept up in archives and lost, and more editors will see comments on article talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

  1. Zhou Tong (archer)

Please comment at the subject RfC. Lewolka (talk) 15:25, 1 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Discussion on disallowing use of the ʻokina in Chinese romanized article titles


  There is currently a discussion that may interest you. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Disallowing use of the ʻokina in Chinese romanized article titles proposes that the ʻokina gennerally be prohibited from article titles derived from Chinese whenever it does not adhere to the English Wikipedia policy to use commonly recognizable names. Plese join the discussion. Thank you. Peaceray (talk) 17:12, 25 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Project-independent quality assessments


Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:14, 12 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Requested move at Talk:ONE Championship#Requested move 17 April 2023


There is a requested move discussion at Talk:ONE Championship#Requested move 17 April 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – MaterialWorks 22:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)Reply


  Editors interested in this topic are politely asked to participate in the discussion here: Talk:Tai chi#Consistency among Tai chi-related articles. SilverStar54 (talk) 06:19, 12 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports


  You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports § Suggestion: Changing "Achievements and titles" order in Template:Infobox sportsperson, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. CLalgo (talk) 08:31, 21 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!


Please note that Tai chi, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by MusikBot talk 00:05, 3 July 2023 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI teamReply

Requested move at Talk:Olha Kharlan#Requested move 30 July 2023


There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Olha Kharlan#Requested move 30 July 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Romanization in Chow Gar


Not sure the best way to handle this, beyond what WP:PINYIN has to say about it. Most of the romanizations on this page use some colloquial version of (presumably) Cantonese, but it's not always consistent (e.g. 三步箭 was both Sarm Bo Jin and Saam Bo Gin before my edits). For words that aren't spelled out consistently in the sources (which are poor at the moment), should it default to Hanyu Pinyin? Exobiotic 💬 ✒️ 15:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Another RfC on capitalization of all our articles


I thought this was a done deal back in this 2022 RFC but obviously not. A handful of editors did another rfc with no sports projects input at all. And it's being challenged because we just noticed it. This could affect almost every single tennis and Olympic article we have, and goodness know how many other sports. Some may have already been moved it you weren't watching the article. And not just the article titles will be affected but all the player bios that link to the articles. Sure the links would be piped to the right place if thousands of articles moved, but if the wording in a bio still said 2023 Wimbledon Championships – Men's singles or Swimming at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Men's 200 metre backstroke that would likely need to be changed by hand. There is also talk of removing the ndash completely.

Perhaps this is what sports projects want and perhaps not. Either way I certainly don't want projects ill-informed as the last RfC was handled. Express your thoughts at the following rfc. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:43, 20 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Requested move at Talk:Pradal serey#Requested move 12 November 2023


There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Pradal serey#Requested move 12 November 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 03:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Good article reassessment for Weapon dance


Weapon dance has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Pan IBJJF Jiu-Jitsu No-Gi Championship


At Pan IBJJF Jiu-Jitsu No-Gi Championship, the female winners are not documented for 2022 or 2023. I updated the Worlds no-gi page with female winners for 2023. If someone wants to jump in, that would be great. I'm planning to focus on a Wiki-related academic project instead. But while I'm here, is it safe to assume that if someone has a profile with BJJ Heroes then they are notable? That might be in the archives but I'm in a hurry. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 01:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Biosthmors Sorry for the late response, but BJJ Heroes has never been considered sufficient to show WP notability. Anyone can enter info or comments without editorial review. I know a number of people with entries at that site have had their WP entries deleted at AfD discussions. Papaursa (talk) 03:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Nori Bunasawa


Could someone from this WikiProject take a look at Nori Bunasawa and perhaps assess it? The article seems to have started out as draft created by 110347nbtough in November 2020, who subsequently seemed to claim they were Bunasawa himself over on Wikimedia Commons here and here. The draft was then approved by DN27ND about a month later, even though the DN27ND account was only four days old and seems to have no experience as an WP:AFC reviewer. Moreover, DN27ND is an WP:SPA whose primary focus on English Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons and Japanese Wikipedia has been creating/editing content about Bunasawa; in other words, it seems that the account was specifically and only created for that purpose. FWIW, Bunasawa seems to be Wikipedia notable per WP:BIO, but there also does seem to be quite a lot of COI editing going on over the years; so, it would be nice if someone more familiar with articles about judo and judokas could take a look at this, assess it and clean it up (if necessary) because the primary and pretty much only real contributor to the article over the years has been DN27ND. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:30, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Marchjuly Sorry for the late response but I don't often check this page. I'm not sure how WP notable Bunasawa is, though I didn't check Japanese sources. Being a high school and collegiate champion doesn't show WP notability. His career record as an adult shows 1 silver medal at a national championship and no appearances at the world championships, although making the Japanese team for a world event at that time (when the Japanese were the dominant force in judo) was very difficult. There's a lot of detail in the article and speculation (e.g., "will be adapted into a feature film by a major production company") and I'm bothered by the SPA/autobiographical nature of this article. If you believe he meets WP:BIO, I would ask you to state what references meet WP:THREE. I would say he doesn't appear to meet WP:MANOTE. Papaursa (talk) 20:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Papaursa: Thank you for looking at this article. FWIW, I had some concerns about the subject's Wikipedia notability myself which is why I decided to ask about the article here. I only came across the article because of issues related to some of the images being used in it. So, I'm quite happy to defer to the judgement of you or others more experienced in articles about martial artists with respect to Wikipedia notability. Perhaps the "WP:THREE" question, therefore, would be better asked of the DN27ND account I mentioned above since they approved the account via AfC despite, as I also mentioned above, having no established record of being an AfC reviewer. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Marchjuly I asked you since you said "Bunasawa seems to be Wikipedia notable per WP:BIO". I don't believe DN27ND is an impartial editor. Papaursa (talk) 17:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
@DN27ND: There are questions about the notability of Nori Bunasawa. Please list the reliable and independent references that best show significant coverage of him (per WP:THREE). Thank you. Papaursa (talk) 17:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Discussion at Everything Everywhere All at Once


  You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Everything_Everywhere_All_at_Once#Evelyn_Quan_Wang_character_article, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Spinixster (trout me!) 02:51, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply