Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports

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WikiProject Sports (Rated Project-class)
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Notability of cancelled sports eventsEdit

We have a lot of articles in Category:Sports events cancelled due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and all of them are not going to happen- the postponed ones are in a separate category. Usually all of these events/seasons would be notable, but because they're not happening, I believe almost all of them are not. A large number of the articles just say that it was scheduled for some date(s) and then was cancelled due to the pandemic. Thus, I don't believe those articles meet WP:GNG, but would like to get others' thoughts? Joseph2302 (talk) 10:49, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

If anything they are likely more notable because they were cancelled if they are an event that would normally happen at a regular interval, as there is very likely to be news articles talking about how they were cancelled as the fact they were cancelled when they typically always happen makes those specific ones to be of note in a way that routine run of the mill events would not necessarily be. -DJSasso (talk) 12:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Don't know about what others may think, but the cancellation of the 2020 Men's Ice Hockey World Championships, 2020 Women's Ice Hockey World Championships & the 2020 Memorial Cup are darn notable. GoodDay (talk) 14:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The items would only be non-notable if the event went on was fringe notable. The question is simply - do these items pass WP:GNG? Usually, they do. If not, the items shouldn't have been created in the first place. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 14:28, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski I think a lot of them don't pass WP:GNG. They were created when the events were going to happen, and would therefore have been notable. But now they're cancelled, they aren't notable, and lots have no coverage other than the event format and generic sources for it being cancelled. That's my opinion on at least half the ones that I've looked at. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:38, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Just for reference, we should really be a bit more strict on only creating articles on items that already meet GNG. Simply "this event will take place" isn't good enough. We should be actively WP:CRYSTALBALLing to avoid having to delete when an event is cancelled. It should really already hold up on creation. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 14:43, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
+1. Truly, this seems fairly basic. Cancelled events are notable if they meet the GNG. If they don't meet the GNG, they never should have had articles in the first place. I'd imagine the surest way to know for sure is, y'know, check for sources. Ravenswing 00:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
  • We don't need separate season/event articles for most of these, but that should be done on a case-by-case basis. SportingFlyer T·C 14:44, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Merger of sportspeople stubs into lists (cricket)Edit

There has been a discussion going on at Talk:List of Bengal cricketers#Merge proposal which potentially has wider scope than cricket and may be helped by additional input. The merger proposal follows on from a no consensus AfD, and concerns whether or not very short stub articles should be merged into an appropriate list (with a redirect) or left as stand alone stubs. wjematherplease leave a message... 14:01, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Anthony RadeticEdit

Should this draft be accepted or rejected? All input welcome! Calliopejen1 (talk) 06:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Calliopejen1, I'm curious as to your thoughts on the matter, because rejection is a flat-out no from me (pretty obviously so). Primefac (talk) 16:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm not au fait with the AfC process at all, but this looks a decent start of an article on a clearly notable subject by WP:GNG to me. What is concerning you Calliopejen1? Harrias talk 17:07, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
It's been languishing for weeks in the backlog pile, and I'm not familiar with notability standards for athletes. If you think it's clearly notable, I'll just go ahead and approve it. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:12, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Never mind, a lot of it is copyvio. Declined with a suggestion to rewrite. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:15, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I've been seeing a lot more of these "why wasn't this looked at earlier?" type drafts at the back of the queue, but keep in mind that there are three groups of reviewers: those that work from the front, those that work from the back, and the (relatively small) group that randomly chooses drafts in the middle. Chances are really good if one of the ~250 daily-submitted drafts isn't seen in the first 48 hours, it will likely end up drifting to the back before it's seen/reviewed again. Primefac (talk) 18:50, 30 June 2020 (UTC) And for those interested, I'm cleaning up the copyvios so don't feel like you need to all pile on. Primefac (talk) 18:51, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

CAT:NNEdit

There are usually around 2000 articles in CAT:NN just on sport, see [1]. The backlog is now almost 12 years. We'd be hugely grateful if people from this project could help with the sports backlog. Thanks for your help, Boleyn (talk) 14:54, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

  • Holy crap, never mind sport articles, there are a few thousand articles tagged for more than a decade?? Digging into it, and thanks for the tipoff. Ravenswing 16:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

American football fully professional leaguesEdit

Is the United Football League (2009–2012) considered a fully professional league? If not, then Aaron King (American football) is utterly non-notable. Hog Farm Bacon 21:16, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

  • I wouldn't think so. It would be a considerable stretch to suggest that every one of its players were highly likely to meet the GNG. (Heck, I would seriously question whether the USFL should be on that list, come to that.)

    That being said, I would love to go back in time and knock on the head the premise that "fully professional" was a useful euphemism for "top-flight." Players at the lowest tiers of the minor leagues in both hockey and baseball get paychecks. Ravenswing 21:37, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Clubs performance comparison of the Champions Leagues etc.Edit

There is an Aft if lists of performance comparison of club competitions are notable or not. This Afd effects following lists: UEFA Champions League clubs performance comparison, UEFA Europa League clubs performance comparison, AFC Champions League clubs performance comparison, Performance record of clubs in the Premier League, EuroLeague clubs performance comparison, Copa Sudamericana clubs performance comparison, Euro Hockey League clubs performance comparison and similar lists. Malo95 (talk) 07:07, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Should Events at the 2013 World Games be an article?Edit

I was directed here from Wikipedia:Teahouse by Calliopejen1.

I just noticed that @Govvy: nominated Finswimming at the 2013 World Games for deletion. (as the deletion tag is about to expire I'll remove it for this discussion) At the bottom there is a box "Events at the 2013 World Games" with a whole bunch of red links, and I don't know if fistball at the 2013 World Games is much more notable than finswimming.

Perhaps all these events (or at least the results) should be merged into Events at the 2013 World Games, redirect the existing articles and only keep articles (with a {{Main}} at the to be created "events" article) for single events that appear to be notable on their own and consist of more than a table of winners? - Alexis Jazz 08:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

  • Huh. Go figure; I'd never heard of the "World Games." For my part, I'd just redirect it all to the 2013 World Games article, barring some serious coverage in reliable sources. Probably, as you suggest, most of it isn't any more notable than "finswimming." Ravenswing 09:20, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
World Games doesn't really get the right press coverage, other than the two games held in the US, there does seem to be lack of coverage. Individual events shouldn't have their own page. From the article World Games, the whole lot needs to be reviewed and fixed. There are multiple issues to deal with across the board and it's a fairly big project to sort out. Govvy (talk) 10:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I daresay. Just judging from the 2013 Games article, there's a lot of trivia to remove. (A list of how many athletes competed from how many countries might be encyclopedic in the Olympics articles, but hardly about this fringe competition.) Then again, I'm still eyeball deep in the CAT:NN debacle; I don't envy those trying to muck out this stable. Ravenswing 11:26, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I've often thought about expanding the "cue sports at the X World Games" articles, as they are generally well documented in cue sports press. I actually think such an article as a dablist is more suitable if the articles remain, rather than existing to merge. The results themselves aren't all that notable to all be on one page, outside of medal winners. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 11:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
@Lee Vilenski: If the results "aren't all that notable to all be on one page", that would even less so warrant individual pages for every single event? Anyway, if we do this, we should also do it for the other years. (except where the article is substantial) At any rate we shouldn't have a collection of red links in the "Events at the X World Games" templates that if created will just be nominated for deletion. - Alexis Jazz 08:42, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I think the point is, if we were to delete Finswimming at the 2013 World Games, then merge anything suitable - but probably not the full bracket to Finswimming at the World Games rather than an article just for events at this year. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 08:47, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Notability questionEdit

Hi all—I'm not familiar enough with the sports world to tell concretely, so wanted to check: is Claremont Colleges Rugby Football Club likely to be found notable? It seems to be a successful team competing at a higher level than most Claremont teams, but it's also just one sport, and the two articles for the Claremont (D3) athletic teams were barely found notable themselves. Would it be slam dunk keep or delete at AfD, or somewhere in between? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 00:22, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ravenswing and Lee Vilenski: You both seem active at this project; any thoughts? I don't want to waste folks' time at AfD unless it's appropriate. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 16:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Ooh, American rugby? Might be a little far outside my comfort zone to be honest. From the sources on offer, it doesn't look 100% promising. Even if notable, it certainly needs a rewrite. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 16:57, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Mixed minds here. D3's a pretty low level, and rugby's a pretty fringe sport; does the college have a general athletics page? That being said, if you can demonstrate that the club passes the GNG in its own right, that's a pass. Ravenswing 18:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks both. As an update, I nominated it for AfD. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 18:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

"Stick to sports"Edit

Just created stick to sports. All contributions/thoughts welcome! AleatoryPonderings (talk) 16:39, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Well, it's certainly a notable and widely-discussed topic! Ravenswing 15:27, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Racecar notability questionEdit

Hello, I'm a wikipedian from it.wiki. I don't know whether there's a WikiProject for racecar, thus I post it here. This article is about someone who lacks notability. In fact, the author attempted to pass it on it.wiki (but they got it deleted several times) and later created it here in order to have the ground for recreating it there. Please have a look. For our standards it wouldn't fit for the encyclopedia, but you decide. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 12:23, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

the driver in question is to be considered 100% encyclopedic has been deleted on it.wiki because the page was created incorrectly without references and also had not yet made his debut in the most important touring car championship in Italy, winning in his debut, for this he has many articles on the most important motorsport sites in the world, as well as a successful career in karting with the victory of the world championship. TouringCarRacing1 (talk) 20:08, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Please don't write incorrect things. Not being provided with sources is not per se a cause of deletion on it.wiki. The page was deleted because its subject is not notable, not because lacked sources. As you said, the biographed has not a major win, thus I don't see how it might be anywhere notable. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 17:52, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Notability is determined by the existence of sources, if there are sources they are notable, whether the team has a major win or not doesn't actually enter into it as long as WP:GNG is met. -DJSasso (talk) 14:43, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm not writing wrong things now I will show you why, to begin with, how do you doubt that the subject in question does not have important victories in the palmares that make him encyclopedic, to start with he won Italian Open Masters the Italian karting championship , in addition to this he also won a race in the Karting World Championship where he was the youngest in the history of karting to participate in the highest category or the KZ1 and was part of the most important official teams in the kart world or Tony Kart and CRG in addition to these results has many others in international competitions that are proven by a large number of sources on the major motorsport sites for example Motorsport.com. In addition to this Giardelli has a relevant career with cars as he raced in official tests with Formula Renault and Formula 4 with one of the most important teams in the world for formulas, namely Prema Powerteam Drivers such as Charles Leclerc and many others have raced in this team, currently Giardelli races with touring cars and currently participates in the most important touring car championship in Italy, the TCR Italy Touring Car Championship and in this championship Giardelli has achieved important victories and is part of MM Motorsport team officially supported by Honda JAS Motorsport also in this case has sources on major motorsport sites in the world and beyond. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] TouringCarRacing1 (talk) 09:23, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Ok but none of those wins are relevant. As for sources, @DJSasso:, they are not per se an index of notability. Not anything that appears on a source is notable. In order to be notable one must have relevant win and he has not, and rightfully should be deleted like it is her. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 16:16, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
You are wrong @Black Cat: the racing driver in question has achieved many rilevant and important victories in international and national races, for example currently race in the TCR Italy Touring Car Championship the the Italian touring car championship this championship is relevant and professional and the driver has achieved victories in this championship, in addition to this he has won Italian Open Masters the Italian Karting Championship this too is a relevant and very important victory, and he won a race in the Karting World Championship also this is a relevant and very important victory. Many other relevant victorys isfind written on the wikipedia page with relevant sources. Given the numerous relevant and important victories and sources, the page is not to be deleted but to be kepp. Legendsneverdie123 (talk) 13:50, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!Edit

Hello,
Please note that Skurfing (sport), which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by MusikBot talk 00:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

Short descriptionsEdit

A large number of pages calling {{infobox country at games}}, which is primarily used for Olympics articles but also for things like the Asian games, don't yet have a short description. The infobox can add it to these pages, but I wanted to get opinions on the format for the shortdesc. I mean, how else can one describe Australia at the 1980 Winter Olympics or Singapore at the 2018 Asian Games other than with the title itself? Looking for opinions and thoughts so I can code it up. Primefac (talk) 17:15, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Maybe something like: X in sports competition/event? The short description can be quite vague, I suppose also X in Y Olympics, but yeah, not always easy to shorten. What does wikidata have for these items? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 17:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
I checked a half-dozen Olympics and Asian Games WD pages, and none of them have a short description. That's kinda why I'm looking for ideas. Primefac (talk) 17:33, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
I think "country delegation to <games>" would be suitable, don't think we need years or anything, so for example Australia at the 1980 Winter Olympics have a shortdesc of "country delegation to the Winter Olympics" and Singapore at the 2018 Asian Games would be "country delegation to the Asian Games". Primefac (talk) 14:49, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Is there a danger of the short description being longer than the article title? Cuba at the 2016 Olympic Games would shorten to "country delegation to the Olympic Games", which is significantly (10) longer than the article title. Maybe "country delegation to sports event" or similar. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 18:35, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
If you want to really get to a short description, just "sporting event delegation". Primefac (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

American handball and (team) handball conflictEdit

Hello. Recently I saw some biographies about American handball players which were categorized in Category:American male handball players. But this is false because this category is for team handball and not for American handball.

The same happened to two photos for American handball players in commons. There I created the commons:Category:American handball players and the old category commons:Category:Male handball players from the United States is for team handball players.

Now I have the problem that at the Englisch Wikipedia the Category:American handball players descripts team handball players from the USA. How should I name a category for American Handball players?

I hope you understand my dilemma.--Malo95 (talk) 11:57, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm glad we don't have the same issue with say American Snooker. I did like that the article suggests that it heavily influenced Squash (sport), despite it being a game that was first played afterwards. I don't see an issue with Category:Male handball players from the United States being a thing in this instance. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 13:01, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
This is one solution but im not really glad whit this because alle other (team) handball categories of the other countries starts with Category:Country handball players: See: Category:Handball players by nationality.
There is the same issue with the Category:American handball clubs. Whereas the Category:Handball competitions in the United States has the country at the end. What a mess. User:Lee Vilenski you think we should do an exception for the US categories and name them allway in/from the United States?--Malo95 (talk) 13:44, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
The short answer, in my mind, is "yes." If a naming system doesn't allow for the most accurate naming of a certain category, then we should use a more accurate name. If there are concerns about uniformity/consistency, then that can be brought up as a larger discussion about the entire group. In other words, I'd say go for it. Primefac (talk) 15:45, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Whether we need to change all of the categories, or just have one that is different is another question. The other way to do this is to have Category:Players of American handball to avoid confusion. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 18:05, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
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