Ravenswing

If you post to my talk page, I will reply here. If I posted to your talk page, I will look for responses there.

• * *

I am disinterested in flames.

Want to blow off steam? Run around your block a dozen times or so instead.

• * *

This user talk page is watched by several friendly editors, and someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is always appreciated.

To the degree you might care, by the bye, I'm male, but I don't snarl with rage if misgendered; it's a good bit less less by way of travail and indignity than half the human race put up with for pretty much the entire Holocene.

Personal attack

Hi Ravenswing. The user with whom I had a dispute has changed their UP to a personal attack. Please address as you see fit. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Justinw303&action=history Thanks NEDOCHAN (talk) 14:14, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

An answer

Hi, I saw in WP:ANI your question How stupid do they think we are? based on edits like Special:MobileDiff/1135086686, I think that very. Also nobody has explained it in WP:ANI which suggests all editors who saw it knew that I’m right. -Gueshutbjk (talk) 16:24, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Not necessarily. At ANI, a lack of response means considerably more often than otherwise nothing more than that no one cared enough to respond. All those who participate regularly at ANI see a lot of drama, there's very little new under the sun, and sometimes we just shrug and move on. Silence does not suggest that people agree with you.

With that, seeing as this was putatively your first edit on Wikipedia, demonstrably you're operating a sockpuppet account, likely to evade a block. Would you like to know how many admins watch my talk page? Ravenswing 21:09, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I just thought I ought to answer you somewhere. This doesn’t change the fact that the community decides to write Odesa, but the admins insist on using the wrong name Odessa in this article. -Fnursvjuedvhy (talk) 09:15, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

So does Wikipedia's Manual of Style, which holds that names are rendered according to how they are predominantly done in English-language sources. In this case, that's "Odessa." If that's too much for you to swallow, no one forces you to use the English Wikipedia, and you're free to do your business on Wikipedias that render the name more to your liking ... except, of course that you and your other random-letter friend have both been indeffed for socking. Buh-bye. Ravenswing 09:22, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

EEng

Apologies for stepping on your toes there, but I think the discussion could do to run a little longer. I don't think haste was called for in closing it. Mackensen (talk) 20:55, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm not going to raise a fuss over it, but every single editor who's commented so far other than the OP reflected the sentiment of the close: that EEng should behave better, and that there was no call for action beyond that; a classic case of SNOW. Do you anticipate a sudden surge of calls for sanctions? Ravenswing 21:04, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Sanctions? No, that's quite impossible. Some day I'd love to see a gentle acknowledgement from EEng that he at least realizes the burden he places on the rest of the community. I doubt that's happening either. Mackensen (talk) 21:08, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Emergency backup goaltender and first games

I saw this edit and thought of looking at older season pages. Such first games are also present at 2019–20 and 2017–18. I remember the last discussion at WT:NHL about first and last games, but cannot seem to remember if the addition of emergency backup goaltenders was discussed... – sbaio 16:24, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh, absolutely, I mean to tackle them all. As far as EBUGs go, those are ephemeral novelty acts that the press plays up in the moment, but emergency goalies aren't anything new. The lines of Claude Cyr or Julian Klymkiw aren't mentioned in Debuts either. Ravenswing 22:17, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

First/last game tables

I want to make it clear I’m not necessarily opposed to your changes, as consensus can certainly evolve over time; my issue is primarily with how you’re going about these changes.

The tables w/ notability qualifications are how first/last games have been handled for upwards of a decade and a half, with seemingly no other users (especially those who frequently edit season pages) having issues with their inclusion; when I see them removed by a lone editor with an infrequent history on hockey season pages and no discussion at WP:ICEHOCKEY, I’m obviously going to revert them as it seems like a unilateral interpretation of guidelines rather than a consensus one.

As such, I’ll be reverting your edits for now, but I encourage you to open a discussion at the WP and invite frequent editors (Sbaio, Ho-ju, Deadman, and others, for example) to comment on what should be done regarding the tables/lists. Until then, please hold off for the time being. I hope this clears up some of the supposed tension. The Kip (talk) 20:31, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Ummm, no. Using tables is a relatively recent thing, only over the last couple of years, done unilaterally, and that much only in recent NHL seasons. And with that, you are displaying some extraordinary nerve claiming anything about my editing history; I was active on hockey topics on Wikipedia a dozen years before you registered, and have over ten times your edits. (Never mind that it's mindboggling that you're "encouraging" me to open a discussion on a talk page you have never frequented, and on which I've just short of a thousand edits.) Your condescending tone concerning what you will deign to permit or not, to put it mildly, is quite uncivil. Ravenswing 01:15, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

ANI and WPTC

I was going to make an individual post to this thread on WP:ANI, but I felt generally indecisive enough as to whether it would actually help or hinder the discussion. So I decided to solicit advice from someone who's become increasingly experienced with resolving disputes on the drama-boards. (Hey, that's you!)

My concern is thus: As much as I feel the points being made about Fleur's conduct are valid, this has the unpleasant connotation of a pile-on, particularly the fact that WP:WPTC members are calling for someone to be topic-banned from all weather topics broadly construed. That makes me very uncomfortable. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do think it would be useful to have uninvolved admins making that call. We very recently had a huge Arbcom case about this very matter.

Let me know if you think it's a point worth bringing up there. ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:23, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

• Well ... the fact on the ground is that the community is allowed to levy such sanctions at ANI, and that's not changing any time soon. Indeed, pile-ons happen, and I readily admit to having participated in them. (Then again, I've also opposed any number of pile-ons, and a catchphrase I've repeated an uncomfortable number of times at ANI is that if we at Wikipedia dislike the slur of the radical right echo chamber casting us as running left-wing woke witch hunts, it's best not to have them.) I wouldn't change that if I could; I have seen way too many people get away with murder for way too long -- the Lugnutses and MickMacNees of the world -- to want to take this tool to remove bad actors out of the community's keyboards.

  But I'll buck the tide in another point. Admins are not consecrated elites; they've just gotten through a broken process where the path to success is often to have been as inoffensive as possible and have nothing to hang Opposes from, because let me tell you, ANI has nothing on RfA when it comes to lynch mobs and pile-ons. There are many of us out there who've been on Wikipedia for decades, have many tens of thousands of edits, and seem to have enough respect to have strangers solicit their advice ... (grins) There are some admins I wouldn't trust to fold party favors, let alone with the mop, and a lot of community members I trust to make such judgment calls.

  And you're allowed to make them as well. I haven't delved into that particular dispute so as to have an informed opinion, but you have. If you think a tban is an overreaction, say so! And certainly doing so now, as opposed to after a half-dozen pile-ons get into the game, is good timing. Your voice is as valid as any others. Ravenswing 15:32, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Aaaaaand ... it looks like your statement had the result you wanted. Good on you. Ravenswing 09:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

It's interesting, the more I lean on my gut feeling nowadays, the more I seem to be rewarded by it. Thanks for your feedback! I'm not sure I would have gone ahead with my post otherwise. --⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:04, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Achill Island

Hi @Ravenswing: I was wondering why you put an advert tag on Achill Island. I was looking at the All articles with a promotional tone cat and picked this article at random. What is promo in it exactly? scope_creep^Talk 08:46, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Simply put, it's just riddled with "local color" items that are poorly or unsourced, and which I'd expect to see in a locally-produced walking tour guidebook rather than in a Wikipedia article. Take a peek at the Mission, Monastery, Railway, Valley House, Deserted Village and Other Places of Interest sections in particular. Alleged prophecies? A couple sentences on a NN pastor's wife who died over 150 years ago? A monk seemingly notable only for writing a bio of an alleged murderer (and multiple paragraphs on that)? Several sentences on farming practices in Ireland? "The Great Western Greenway, created during 2010 and 2011, follows the line's route and has proved to be very successful in attracting visitors to Achill and the surrounding areas." And so on and so forth. The article's full of such fluff. Ravenswing 10:07, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Your opinion

I might be misremembering, but at some AfD I recall you mentioning something about Rank and File not being a sufficiently SIGCOV source for GNG. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this AfD (already closed)? JoelleJay (talk) 03:29, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I think these catchall encyclopedias just do bulletpoint writeups about the size and indepth coverage of a Topps baseball card. I also think (as has been discussed elsewhere) that the likes of BeanieFan and Cbl62 are part of a cadre that are -- with a fair bit of success -- subverting the changes in NSPORTS by just finding some reason, no matter how threadbare, to vote to Keep any sports bio at AfD. It's just exhausting, is all. Ravenswing 06:20, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

It's just exhausting, is all. Tell me about it. There are currently multiple editors arguing that an article can be based almost entirely on quotes from the individual (and objecting to that is BLUDGEONING with my "interpretation of policy" that "other users disagree with") and defending a user who has dumped 15+-link refbombs of club announcements, transactional announcements, blogs, and passing mentions into 100+ AfDs. And these articles get kept because the same group who oppose NSPORTS2022 make it a point to !vote in almost every AfD while the rest of the community, who made their opinion clear at the RfC, don't participate in sportsperson AfDs. JoelleJay (talk) 23:51, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Can you please justify your assertion that I am "subverting the changes in NSPORTS by just finding some reason, no matter how threadbare, to vote to Keep any sports bio at AfD." The facts are that (i) I vote "delete", "merge", "redirect", or "userfy" in 65.3% of AfDs (see here), and (ii) I have cited WP:SPORTBASIC #5 dozens and dozens of times since its adoption last year as a basis to delete sports biographies. Cbl62 (talk) 10:59, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Craig Anderson

Could you check Craig Anderson's page? The Sabres still have one more game tonight, and although he won't be suiting up for the game, I don't think he's retired yet, even though he said last night that he was retiring. Could you look into this and let me know if it's all good or not? Thanks,

-B D A *A very wise person once said, "I woke up in a new Buga'i!"*

BubbaDaAmogus (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Sportsnet confirmed it, and the link to the source is on the page. Ravenswing 07:11, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Speed typing

Regarding this edit: it's impressive if you were able to type the sentence in 1/15th of a second :P isaacl (talk) 23:39, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Gah! I meant the other way around, of course -- thanks for pointing that out! Ravenswing 00:13, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Algeria at the 2024 Summer Olympics

Hello, Ravenswing,

I see you tagged this redirect as being discussed at an RFD but the link goes to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 19 and I don't see that you have posted an entry on this page. This is part of the process. Did you mistakenly post on the June 20th log page? If so, please change the link on the redirect page. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

No, I pulled it once I saw that you'd deleted the original. Ravenswing 01:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

AfDs, ANI

I'd hoped that, by giving it a few days, the situation would resolve itself. I don't want to drag people through TBANs if it's not necessary. The ANI thread in question has been quiet; in the meantime, most of the AfDs (7/11) have been closed, some discounting number in favor of quality of arguments. I think that's fine and is what I was hoping to achieve. In the meantime, though, the user in question has continued to evade direct questions about notability criteria and about the use of alternate accounts (the original post on ANI uses the plural and might imply the use of several accounts to edit in special areas). Given that, I'm no longer sure about my previous private position to just leave a community reminder. If you're up for further action, I'd be willing to consider it given leniency. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 16:14, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm up for supporting it, but I shouldn't be the one to instigate it; aside from that it'd be seen as headhunting given the number of posts I've made on the subject, I recently proposed and got through a community and topic ban on another editor. If I don't want to be accused of being the Madame Defarge of ANI, I shouldn't be instigating those very often. If you're willing to do so -- and while the sum of MIAJudges' actions might not be too egregious, their stonewalling of every inquiry is -- I'll be marching right on behind. Ravenswing 17:44, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I currently would not support a TBAN pending tangible results and replies to my inquiry on the Gupta AfD. I think that it's obvious that they're newer to AfD, and they definitely seem to have taken inquiries as bites. I do think that they are very constructive outside of deletion discussions, and I don't want to lose that. If I did propose a TBAN, it would at the very least see leniency in the form of a brief ban period. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 18:04, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Thing is, the real concerning thing is the falsification of the headline in the Garnett article. Nothing else would, on their own, garner more than a slap-on-the-wrist day or three block. But the bogus headline, paired with all the stonewalling, points to the unfortunate obvious: we cannot trust this editor, and they are giving us no reason to do so. I really don't want to go over every one of their articlespace edits to see what else they've falsified. Ravenswing 19:04, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Noting that I'm satisfied with this explanation for the multiple accounts thing; it's not incompatible with the (diff revdeled) statements made at ANI. In any case, if there are other active accounts, behavioral evidence would be obvious. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 01:43, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not, myself; with MIAJudges' repeated stonewalling, we just seem to be taking his unsupported word for everything, and after the Garnett business, he's just not to be trusted. Nothing much to be done about that, though; either an admin demands some answers, or none do. Ravenswing 02:52, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I understand. But I prefer to not sanction when it's not needed. I'd prefer to get involved in some different drama at this point. I have projects to do and a life to live. If they're not to be trusted, their actions will bear that out, and it'll pop back onto ANI. For now, though, it's a dead (unconscious?) horse. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 03:37, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Not quite so unconscious now; MIA shot themselves in the foot big time. Take a look at the thread now. This is going straight to community ban, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Ravenswing 13:47, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Lou Barlow

Lou has lived in Greenfield for 9 years- I have tried adding a link to a Recorder article here and it will not let me. A google search will offer quick proof ABar72 (talk) 04:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

I do know how, found the article to which you might have been referring, and added the link: go take a look to see how that's done. Ravenswing 19:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you- I looked at how you linked it- that is really helpful ABar72 (talk) 19:26, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

You'll notice in the edit screen that there's Cite listed at the top. That opens up a drop down screen where you fill in various fields, and that generates the appropriate citation template. Please feel free to drop me a line if you need further/more comprehensive tips. Ravenswing 21:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

		Happy Holidays
		Hello, I wanted to be the first to wish you the very best during the holidays. Glad to know you. Lightburst (talk) 15:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Hah, as it happens, you are! Thank you kindly, and happy holidays back atcha! Regards, Ravenswing 17:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Merry Christmas, Ravenswing! Or Season's Greetings or Happy Winter Solstice! As the year winds to a close, I would like to take a moment to recognize your hard work and offer heartfelt gratitude for all you do for Wikipedia. May this Holiday Season bring you nothing but joy, health and prosperity. Onel5969 TT me 02:36, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Onel5969 ^{TT me} 02:36, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you kindly, and the same back at you! Ravenswing 04:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Masterhatch (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Keep up the great work! You're one of the best editors on Wikipedia. Thank you. Masterhatch (talk) 03:40, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Aw, thank you kindly, old comrade! And may your own Christmas be merry as well. Ravenswing 04:13, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you! Thank you for all your help with writing better articles. Have a nice Christmas. – Poriman55 - Meddela mig! 21:13, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

And the same back at you! Ravenswing 02:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Lucy Letby#RFC on Lead sentence

@Ravenswing: Hi there and merry Christmas! I'm just messaging as, quite a while ago now, you were party to the discussion about the COI editor Richard D. Gill who was reported on ANI for advocacy in trying to portray Lucy Letby as wrongfully convicted: [1]. As you absolutely correctly said at the time: Between that and your curious belief that being found guilty at trial is not held to be synonymous with being guilty, you will perhaps forgive us for not as confident as you are that your expertise trumps all other considerations and facts.

But now some editors want to replace the first line that says "British serial killer and former neonatal nurse" to "is a British former neonatal nurse, convicted of the serial murder of seven infants and attempted murder of six others". So basically, they want to get rid of her being called a serial killer, on various grounds including "I don't think we can assert in Wiki's voice that she is a murderer". But surely, the place we decide where someone is guilty of a crime is in court, and having been convicted it is perfectly reasonable to describe her as a murderer in Wikivoice? I might understand it more if there were massive and consistent doubts about her conviction, but there isn't any any such wider doubts.

What I also think is quite improper is that the whole debate was started when the already-blocked Richard Gill apparently appeared again(!) to evade his block and suggest the whole intro be changed to claim she is just an "alleged" killer: [2] - EXACTLY the same wording he'd suspiciously been asking for on his own Twitter account!: [3]. So basically a blocked advocacy editor has got some people persuaded that we shouldn't call her a killer. It really just smacks of pro-Letby editorialising to not allow her to be referred to as a killer, surely that is the norm on Wikipedia, to refer to serial killers like Fred West, Steve Wright, Peter Sutcliffe and John Duffy and David Mulcahy as serial killers? 213.31.104.198 213.31.104.198 (talk) 10:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Banned editor canvassing for an RfC. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind talk page messages along the lines of "You were a participant in X conversation, and it's started up again, let us know what you think." I very much mind talk page messages that pitch a strongly partisan POV, such as this one, and invite me to jump on the bandwagon. That just earned you a block. Don't do it again. Ravenswing 11:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

January 2024

Hello, I'm Neveselbert. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Pope Benedict XVI, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 23:24, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Return of a topic-banned user

FYI, Dolovis created an ice hockey biography at Yan Kuznetsov. It seems as if his topic ban expired some time ago? Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 18:25, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

It did. Gah. And we've been working under the happy presumption that we'd seen the last of Dolovis. Well. If he gets back to his usual tricks, time for another ANI thread. Ravenswing 18:33, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you

I appreciate you correcting my error on the block length at ANI. I should have looked closer at the text, I think it's just a general habit of mine when it comes to closing discussions since most of the ones I close have ended in that fashion. Sorry about that, and thank you for correcting me. JeffSpaceman (talk) 19:33, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Quite alright! Bobbles happen. Ravenswing 22:33, 2 March 2024 (UTC)