Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 10

Archive 5

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Archive 8

Archive 9

Archive 10

Archive 11

Add Market economy  5

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An economic system which describes much of the world since the end of the Cold War.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:36, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Romantic comedy  5

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Feels like an omission when we list other forms of Comedy  4 such as Vaudeville  5, Sitcom  4, Commedia dell'arte  4, Clown  4, and Cabaret  5. 44 interwikis, 1,217 daily views.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:29, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Good catch, notable enough subgenre with cultural significance. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
4. --Thi (talk) 12:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:27, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:23, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Gamepad

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Effectively the same thing as the already listed Game controller  5. Redundant listing.

Support

1. as nom. λ NegativeMP1 19:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Support. It's a type of game controller so not the same thing but an article that should only be listed at the hypothetical Level 6. Gizza (talk) 05:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 02:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Dedicated console

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Redundant compared to the already listed Video game console  4, where this subject is adequately covered to begin with.

Support

1. as nom. λ NegativeMP1 19:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 02:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove GameCube  5

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Yes, a lot of people are nostalgic for this console, and it had a lot of great games. But it was objectively a failure from a commercial perspective, failing to meet Nintendo's expectations, had little long term impact, and is their second lowest selling console right behind the recently delisted Wii U. It wasn't even the second best selling console of its generation. This console is already barely relevant these days compared to the Nintendo 64  5 and Wii  5, and I don't see how its vital enough to be part of the 50,000 most important subjects to an encyclopedia.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
2. We need less consoles Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:08, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 07:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I really don't think consoles needs any more removals (we've already cut Wii U, Game Gear, Game Boy Color and TurboGrafx-16), and if it did, then the first I would suggest removing is if anything, Master System  5 (and even that I think its influence in Brazil just about tips in terms of vitality). And I would strongly disagree on it being "barely relevant" either given it did have, as you alluded to, many influential titles. Iostn (talk) 21:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Iost. Kevinishere15 (talk) 07:43, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Obviously it isn't as vital as the Wii or N64, but I think it is barely able to stay. It had a lot of really popular games, many of which are still played today. "Barely relevant" is blatantly false. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Xbox Series X and Series S

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In my opinion, considering the X/S as "vital" feels like an leading example of recency bias over whether or not a topic is actually important to the industry, let alone an encyclopedia. The PlayStation 5  5 has sold over 50 million units, so I can give it some slack in that regard (of course, can be reassessed later on), but this one has barely even sold over 20 in its four year long run. Of course, if this console manages to have a long term impact (such as the rumors of Microsoft stopping console production from last year), that can be reassessed at a later date, but right now, this suggests recency bias big time.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Has not had an influence on anything yet, or any really popular games that aren't shared by the PS5 and/or Switch. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per above, and too many consoles. starship.paint 02:19, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per above. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Aside from the fact that I think the number of consoles listed is fine as is right now, I don't really see how ~20 million in 3.5 years is insignificant. Iostn (talk) 21:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Crime-related swaps

The Crime-related listings could use a few changes. I identified five articles that can be removed and five more that can be added. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Remove Hybrid offence

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Seems too niche. Summary offence  5 and Indictable offence  5 are only VA5, and the “goes both ways” type is not important enough to be listed alongside them. Only 2 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Spree killer  5

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This term is rarely used compared to Serial killer  5, which has six times the interwikis and is only VA5. It also had too much overlap with that and Mass murder  5.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. According to the article, the definition is rather vague. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I think it's less used too, but it's still a well-defined separate category of crime worth listing next to those. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Spree killers often get a lot of press and impact legal systems, popular culture, etc, enough to be listed. The Blue Rider 14:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Deception (criminal law)

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Only ever used by England and Ireland, and England seems to have stopped using it. This is way too niche. Only 3 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove False pretenses

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This is seemingly only used by the U.S. and UK, and is too niche to be listed. Only 1 interwiki.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Misprision of felony

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This definitely shouldn't be listed. It has been abolished in the UK and is currently only really used in the United States, and even there it is not a common charge. Only 3 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Support Gizza (talk) 05:40, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Intention (criminal law)  5

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Intent is a fundamental legal concept. 25 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Law.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Mens rea  5

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Fundamental legal concept. Along with Actus reus  5 (nominated below), one of the two elements of a crime. 18 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Law and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Actus reus  5

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Fundamental legal concept. Along with Mens rea  5 (nominated above), one of the two elements of a crime. 18 interwikis, rated High-Importance by WikiProject Law, WikiProject Latin, and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Legal fiction  5

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This is a very important legal topic. 20 interwikis is a good bit more than a lot of other legal topics on the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Major subgenre of crime fiction we don't yet list. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: This isn't a subtopic of crime fiction. This is the important system by which courts create new facts to help them make decisions. I could see adding a subtopic of crime fiction to the list though. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:48, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

   Wow, I thought this was referring to John Grisham books and the like. I'll still support this topic as it seems important to a layman. Makkool (talk) 16:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Victimless crime  5

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Very common concept. 18 interwikis and over 150 daily pageviews.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Office of Strategic Services

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This U.S. organization only existed for three years and was largely superseded by the CIA.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Yeah, does not seem vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap: Add Russian Academy of Sciences  5, remove Library of the Russian Academy of Sciences

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The parent organization is more important than a library it is served by.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 13:00, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
3. The state library is enough for Russian libraries. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:15, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Bastet

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Can someone explain to me why despite being a culture well-known for their religious reverence towards cats, we don’t have the Ancient Egyptian Goddess of Cats on here?

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Given the company... Apep  5? starship.paint 08:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Meow! The Blue Rider 20:52, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Seems like a minor goddess and I am a cat person (who even turned around the Catwoman removal discussion).-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   Definitely not an accurate statement, one of the main deities of Egyptian mythology  4. The Blue Rider 19:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Can this be closed already? It's been almost three months. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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Add economic concepts to Economics

Scarcity  5

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Key economic concept. 40 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Externality  5

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Key economic concept. 45 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Elasticity (economics)  5

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Key economic concept. 43 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove My Brilliant Career

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Not among the 20th century's most important novels.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Biggest claims to vitality are a brief mention of "popularity" during the author's lifetime, an only somewhat more well-known film adaptation, and influencing the career choices of Millicent Eastwood who does not seem an important person anyway with zero interwikis. ~45 daily pageviews, 2 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Not seeing the importance. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:33, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Dime museum

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The article states these were only popular in the U.S. at the end of the 19th century.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove The Martyrdom of Saint Symphorian

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"Although Ingres remained firm in his belief that The Martyrdom of Saint Symphorian was one of his supreme achievements, it has traditionally been counted among his least successful works"

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Does not appear to be an essential work in art history. Biggest claim to vitality is that the preparatory studies are "highly regarded", but I doubt that's enough. Extremely low pageviews (~11 daily), 3 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 02:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Pepe the Frog

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This is not a subject worthy of being among the most important to an encyclopedia. If we wanted an example of internet culture for the sake of representation, Never Gonna Give You Up and Trollface are right there as far more important and influential memes and better examples of the culture as a whole.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 17:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint 02:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

• I'm afraid Never Gonna Give You Up is already covered by Rick Astley  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
  • This isn't a swap proposal, I used the two as examples of Internet culture that I think would be more "definitive" and "vital" than the frog. I do think the trollface could maybe qualify, but it'd be weak even if it would make a stronger case than the frog. λ NegativeMP1 01:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

    fwiw trollface was removed a few months back. Reserving judgment on this actual proposal since I'm on the fence (I think we should have at least one example of Internet memes/culture but I'm not sure if Pepe the Frog is the best contender). Aurangzebra (talk) 03:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Romanian architecture

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Nothing here on what makes Romania particularly important architecturally on an international level.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 16:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. I love Romania, and I'd like to see it at V3, but its architecture is not vital. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:57, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove academic journals

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Remove Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society

Old but quite irrelevant. 3 interwikis. Impact factor 0.181? starship.paint 14:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Bulletin of the American Mathematical Society

10 interwikis. Sparse article. Impact factor between 0.7 to 3.4? starship.paint 14:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Philosophy and Phenomenological Research

2 interwikis. Sparse article. Impact factor 1.6? starship.paint 14:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove American Public Media

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4 interwikis only. Compare with fellow American radio group NPR  5 which has 37 interwikis. starship.paint 14:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Result of sysbias. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:11, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Fire Emblem

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For the most part, Fire Emblem is a relatively obscure franchise that didn't have that much of an impact on the video game industry, and the little impact it has had is not enough for it to be considered one of the 90 most important video games and video game franchises. According to our own page for the series, the entire Fire Emblem franchise has sold less than twenty million units with each game having fairly average reviews except for Awakening. Even its own article demonstrates that the series is basically a no-name outside of Japan, with its influence only really effecting the Tactical role-playing game genre (which we do not consider vital.) The sales numbers are so low you probably couldn't even make a "representation" case for this being listed. Finally, WP:VG only assesses the franchise as Mid-importance.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 04:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
2. IIRC I boldly removed this years ago during the WP:BRD phase but it got re-added. (Or maybe I just voted/planned for its removal). Less deserving of a listing than the already-removed Prince of Persia and Kingdom Hearts. Although the video game section got nicely cut down from 130+ entries some time ago, a handful of questionable entries still remained due to very few voters at the time – Zelda subentries especially could be trimmed slightly more...--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

   Not sure about trimming Zelda. It's Nintendo's second biggest main franchise, and has pushed the limits of the video game industry numerous times (including times we don't consider vital). All the entries we list are basically perfect and I'm not sure if any could be removed, and I'd personally oppose any removals. λ NegativeMP1 18:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

   In fact I'd like to have almost no video game subentries in general, but (even if we've already gotten rid of the likes of Super Mario World and Final Fantasy IV) seeing the resistance A Link to the Past's removal got, I'm not sure I'm gonna bother attempting such removal nominations in practice.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:08, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per above Makkool (talk) 11:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Fringe benefits tax

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A minor form of taxation. Only a few countries collect it.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:33, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add United Parcel Service  5

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UPS is the largest courier company in the world by revenue, with annual revenues around US$85 billion in 2020.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:01, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Rational choice theory  5

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A major theory in economics and sociology.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:44, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Important theory for Economic liberalism  5. The Blue Rider 19:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tommy (The Who album)

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Not only critically acclaimed, it’s usually held to be one of the first rock operas.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. λ NegativeMP1 18:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hand-to-hand combat

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One of the most ancient forms of fighting. Place this in War and military?

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Probably. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 05:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Appalachian Spring

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Probably the most famous ballet to come from the United States. Composed by Aaron Copland  4, choreographed by Martha Graham  4, had sets designed by Isamu Noguchi  5, won Pulitzer Prize for Music.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 02:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hedonism  5

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The opposite of Altruism  4, hedonism is the prioritization of Pleasure  4 in one's life. 70 interwikis, 2,470 daily views last year.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. The world has been in (semi-)hedonistic society for quite some decades. The Blue Rider 17:25, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 09:59, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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There are too many "vital" video games

Sports, games and recreation is currently 33 articles over quota, with 1,233 articles listed as vital. Around 14-15% of these 1.2k articles are video game related subjects, which we list 177 of. 100 of these are individual video games or series (roughly 8% of all listings here). While I think all concept articles we list are pretty fair listings and I wouldn't change any of them, I think that there needs to be a reconsideration of what series or individual video games truly qualify to be among the most important subjects for an encyclopedia.

Let's say that this list is being looked at again in 100 years. In 100 years, games like Super Mario Bros.  5 or The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time  5 will almost certainly be relevant due to their undeniable impact on the industry, and the same applies to their parent franchises, but will Undertale be relevant by then when there's no evidence to support it had an industry impact even 9 years after its release? I get that it could be hard to determine what falls under WP:RECENTISM with video games especially, and making assumptions like this could violate WP:CRYSTALBALL, but its probably good to assume that, if a game doesn't have evidence for industry wide impact only a few years after release and was simply just successful, it likely won't have an impact seen across the industry a century after release.

Another issue here is the lack of representation of listings from areas that aren't Japan or the United States. Even if those areas certainly have more video games originating from them than anywhere else, surely there are some more video games from/popular in Asia that could be considered for vitality. I think the video game quota could possibly be reduced. I don't see an issue with any concept articles we list (since those remaining relevant is basically guaranteed), but the individual series or games could probably be reduced from 105 (which I believe is the max quota?) to a number like 70. Even without a reduction, I think what video games are considered vital needs to be reconsidered as a whole anyways. I would like to hear what y'all think of my concerns and/or proposals for reducing the list amount. λ NegativeMP1 20:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

We no longer use quotas for subtopics within the list, like video games. I would support removing some games that are only listed for their popularity and not for any cultural or industry influence, but I think that the former arguably applies to Undertale. Swapping some individual games with concept articles could also be a good idea. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Either way, we still have a quota for the entire subcategory, and reducing how many video games we have would help us meet the quota instead of overshooting. Undertale has no more cultural influence than something like Five Nights at Freddy's, which has been rejected for vitality several times, so why Undertale got the pass doesn't make sense to me. Neither should be listed. λ NegativeMP1 21:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

You might be right. FNaF is arguably just as influential. I'm neutral on this one for now. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree, Undertale is a completely irrelevant game that barely anyone has ever heard of; close to zero long-term impact. Make the proposals and I will support them. The Blue Rider 21:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, saying that barely anyone has heard of it is blatantly wrong. Its music was even played in front of Pope Francis! QuicoleJR (talk) 21:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant, but I would argue it'd be irrelevant in 100 years. Again, WP:RECENTISM. λ NegativeMP1 22:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Completely agree. I've mentioned this on another thread but I feel like the demographic that participates in these discussions is more predisposed to video game culture and therefore tends to overweight video-game related topics. I myself am probably guilty of this when it comes to topics I'm more interested in but it is important that we are aware of our own biases when we vote. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to use some of these newly freed slots for movies and books, which are often more influential and which have a longer history as mediums. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

If you are interested in voting on films (formerly capped at 200 subquota, while games had 105) I already proposed some above. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR: Since Undertale is being proposed for removal (our only indie game listing not counting Minecraft), I'm curious if you think there's any indie games that could possibly qualify to replace it. I like the idea of having one or two indie game representatives, though I don't think Undertale quite meets the bar personally. Your thoughts? λ NegativeMP1 01:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I thought of FNAF but it's too US centric. I also thought of Cave Story or Super Meat Boy but I'm not sure either could make the cut. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

@NegativeMP1: Sorry for the late reply, but I would suggest Stardew Valley. It is considered one of the best video games of all time, it is among the best-selling video games of all time with over 30 million copies sold, it has a pretty good 35 interwikis, and it single-handedly popularized the farming sim genre. It is one of the only indie games that I think has a decent chance of making the cut. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

It's a game from 2016, so not even a decade old. I agree with your opinion, but saying it would be vital worthy when it's that young makes me hesitant. I feel like that if any indie game were vital it'd be something of long-lasting importance like the aforementioned Cave Story or Braid (video game). λ NegativeMP1 17:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild  5 is listed (as it should be), and it is even newer. I think we have room for a game with this much cultural and industry influence. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:26, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

We also list TV shows that are even newer, like Bluey (2018 TV series)  5. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I broadly agree that video games are overrepsented. 120 (10% of recreation) is an appropriate target subquota IMO. Gizza (talk) 03:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree, but we're also at 174 topics in that field and it'd be really hard to figure out what 57 listings to get rid of. I feel like 150-170 is fair, since there are a few that could be removed to narrowly put it in that range. λ NegativeMP1 04:03, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Just noting for the record that I proposed a swap to add Stardew Valley in a section farther down the page. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:42, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove Undertale

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Per the concerns listed by me and others above, I don't believe this game truly qualifies to be among the most important subjects in an encyclopedia, let alone one of the most important video games ever. It's certainly popular, and I love it as much as the next person, but will it and its minimal industry influence be recognizable or relevant in 100 years?

Support

1. As nominator. λ NegativeMP1 22:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. It is included on the List of video games considered the best article but there are over 320 entries on there and we can't list them all. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Wikipedia may not exist in 100 years, but if my proposal to add FNAF failed, this shouldn't be here either. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. I like the game, and I wish there were more indie games on this list, but it's hard to argue that Undertale had the same impact or popularity as other titles on this list. It's below other titles that are also being voted to remove, like Madden. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

   I have a proposal above asking for a possible indie game or two that could replace Undertale and be more qualifying for "vitality" if you'd like to chip into that discussion. λ NegativeMP1 01:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

5. Recentism, impact not yet on the level of much older games. Would probably put Cave Story or Spelunky as more important indie games.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
6. J947 ‡ ^edits 07:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
7. Obscure videogame. The Blue Rider 15:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
8. I disagree that it is an "obscure" game like what user said above, but its impact doesn't last longer than we thought. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. This was added only two months ago 4-0 and I don't really see what has changed massively since then to warrant it being removed so suddently. Furthermore, there was a comment above noting that this would leave Minecraft  5 as the only represented indie game, and suggested Cave Story or Super Meat Boy as alternatives, but both of those are still much more niche entries than the decidedly-not-in-fact-obscure Undertale. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• I would say I am neutral on this proposal. While the game is highly praised, I am not sure if it is on the same level as Skyrim, Minecraft, and BOTW, which are all listed at the same level. Sans and Megalovania are very iconic to meme culture, but not at the level of Wojak (not listed) or Rick Astley  5. It is very influential, but I'm not sure if it quite makes the VA5 list. If there was a VA6, it would undoubtedly make it there. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
• I'll remove my support vote given the fact that it received 4-0 support to add it to the list recently, and there are plenty of games being discussed here for removal that I don't think it's necessary. Mokadoshi (talk) 18:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Madden NFL  5 and Pro Evolution Soccer, add Sports video game  5

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Madden and Pro Evolution Soccer are popular series that have made a lot of money, but I'm not seeing the impact they have had past that. The genre is very popular and full of several other examples of popular series that have made a lot of money. FIFA is the series out of all of them that has sold the most copies, so we should keep it, but I don't see a need to keep the others.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support remove Pro Evolution Soccer and add Sports video game. Used to play this as a kid so sad to see it go but way surpassed in popularity and notability by FIFA. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removing Pro Evolution Soccer and adding Sports video game. Oppose removing Madden as per Aurangzebra. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Support removing PES and adding Sports video game, oppose removing Madden. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Support removing PES and swapping it with Sports video game, but oppose removing Madden per Aurangzebra. λ NegativeMP1 03:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
7. Support removals; oppose addition. Would (weakly) support the removal of FIFA (video game series) as well. J947 ‡ ^edits 07:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
8. Support removing PES and adding sports video game Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
9. Support swapping PES with sports game only (surprised it wasn't already listed). Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
10. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
11. Support pes and SVG, oppose madden. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose remove Madden NFL. Cultural legacy in the US is enough to warrant a place here. The Madden series is deeply intertwined with the NFL itself. In fact, NFL players place a great deal of stock in their Madden ratings. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose remove Madden.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose removing Madden. Netflix's High Score documentary argues that it was an important franchise on Sega's consoles in the 1990's (we list many more for Nintendo). It was also a landmark in diversity of video game characters, as it one of the first to prominently include black athletes. Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Oppose removing Madden, which is second only to FIFA in sports game franchises. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Wolfenstein 3D  5

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This proposal might be controversial, and it's certainly a tough pick. This game was undeniably important for the time, but it has long been overshadowed by the far more influential and important Doom (1993 video game)  5 and Quake (series)  5. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

As nom. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

1. Support removal per nom, oppose swap as Quake (series)  5 is already listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:36, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

   I didn't even see that the series was listed. Removing note about swapping. λ NegativeMP1 01:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

2. Overshadowed by Doom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak support. J947 ‡ ^edits 07:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom., overshadowed by later FPS's. Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. One of the most important FPS games. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. I am not a big video game guy, but this was my cousin's game when we were roommates in the mid 90s. It seemed like it was a big deal. If I am still hearing about it 30 years later, it must still be.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Wolf3D "is widely regarded as having helped popularize the first-person shooter genre and establishing the standard" of what FPS games are, "as well as showcasing the viability of the shareware publishing model at the time". It basically created the entire genre. I'd drop Quake and leave this. --PresN 13:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Oppose as one of the first and most influential FPSs, I would have suggested removing Quake (series)  5 instead of this. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Wolfenstein 3D basically invented the 3D FPS genre. Games like Fortnite  5 probably wouldn't exist today without it. However, I'd argue that Doom (1993 video game)  5 was more successful in popularizing the genre. I'm inclined to think we don't need both, but at the same time, I'd say the same for having both Need for Speed  5 and Gran Turismo (series)  5 on the list. So, I'm torn unless at a later time we decide that we truly need some additional games to be removed from the list. Mokadoshi (talk) 22:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
• Not withdrawing this nomination since it still has some support, but I'm going to strike my own support on it as I've come to the conclusion it's too influential to remove the vitality of. Delisting Quake would be more warranted in that regard, though I think all three can reasonably stay, since they all had their own achievements. λ NegativeMP1 00:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Team Fortress 2

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Definitely popular, but doesn't seem nearly as important as the other games produced by Valve. I'd vote Half-Life 2 be listed before this one (not proposing a swap, I don't think either should be listed). WPVG only lists it as Mid-importance. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty popular and big part of meme culture, but not at the level of Skyrim, Minecraft, or even FNaF. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Weak Support I don't see how TF 2 is still popular nowadays as what the opposed user said. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

   I didn't say its "still popular" (regardless of how you are quantifying that), but rather that it has maintained more longevity over time compared to Overwatch, which it directly inspired and thus a lot of Overwatch's influence is by proxy influence of TF2. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

   Oops, sorry. Thanks for explaining. Cause of this, I'll change into "weak support". 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

5. Obscure game. The Blue Rider 10:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Maybe on the surface, less well-known than some of the others, its popularity has had a lot more longevity than say Overwatch, which it directly inspired and has already been proposed for removal. This is a case of long-term influence overweighing pure popularity. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose. The game has obviously had an influence on titles such as Overwatch and by extension Valorant. It also adds to the history of the industry's continued transition to free-to-play. As per Iostn it is irrelevant what it's popularity is today, if anything, the fact that it still has some active players after all this time adds to the claim of its legacy, not the other way around. As I said below, I wouldn't oppose a swap with another game if we truly needed to. Mokadoshi (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• The Orange Box could be a potential swap instead of outright removal. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Overwatch

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I think Overwatch could make sense on this list in the context of esports, but I'm not sure it adds anything to the list that Counter-Strike, League of Legends, Dota 2, PUBG: Battlegrounds, Fortnite, Quake (series) and Super Smash Bros. don't already cover. In fact, its esports scene is struggling. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support. Recentism, I've heard online about how the franchise is in trouble.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 07:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Too new to assess long term impact, but we can always reassess this in the future using what I said in my below striked comment as a basis. λ NegativeMP1 17:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Fell from grace in a big way and a lot of its influence as a "mascot shooter" is more via proxy of TF2. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
7. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
8. 🎵 I am gonna vote any kind of support 🎵Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I'm going to vote neutral on this one. On one hand, it served as an outlet for promoting diversity in video games and was certainly influential in that regard. On the other hand, the franchise is basically dead in the water following a sequel that nobody liked and the original game being killed. It's also only eight years old. Not voting for either option, but both sides should be considered here. Moved my vote to a support. λ NegativeMP1 03:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove The Witcher (video game series)

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The third entry saw widespread success, but that's basically where it ends. The entire franchise has only sold 75 million units, and while that is nothing to scoff at, there's nothing here that leads me to believe this is a franchise that should be considered one of the most important video game subjects ever. WP:VG assesses it as only Mid-importance. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. The Witcher as a film is more popular than it is in video games. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 03:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Not popular or influential enough. Kevinishere15 (talk) 19:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• I think a swap with Open world would make sense, as that article is High-importance. I know we already have Role-playing video game and Action role-playing video game but I still think, with The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  5 and Grand Theft Auto V  5 on this list it might make sense. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Silent Hill  5

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Assessed by WP:VG as only Mid-importance, and the game series has sold less than ten million units combined. If we're going to pick between this and Resident Evil  5 for what horror video game series should be considered vital, I say that Resident Evil is far more important. RE seems to have proven impact on the industry, while Silent Hill does not seem to. Listing it as "vital" seems redundant. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom and add Resident Evil as a vital article. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

   Resident Evil is already vital. Kevinishere15 (talk) 03:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

   Oof, missed this one. Thanks. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 03:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

4. Obsure game. The Blue Rider 10:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Horror games are big enough for two entries and I think Silent Hill is the best choice for the second. Kevinishere15 (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

   (As someone who improved a lot of RE character articles, not a bias) Silent Hill recently announced its remake because it was inspired by Resident Evil. After dropping their gameplay reveal trailer, they met with heavy criticism, and fans had already lost hope in the franchise. Since then, the franchise isn't as popular as Resident Evil. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

   VA is not based on short-term trends on wherever a particular title is popular in the current moment but on long-term influence, which isn't diminished by a poorly thought out remake being announced. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

2. Iconic horror game franchise; I'd rather prioritise listings like Galaga for removal first.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 05:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Among the most influential and well-received horror game series that has spawned adaptations in other media Silent Hill 2 in particular being among the most highly-regarded games of all time and as a thematic breakthrough for horror games. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Super Metroid

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Metroid Prime was already removed, and as that constitutes an entire subseries of Metroid  5, that would be the one to list. In any case, it probably isn't big enough among Nintendo's other franchises to warrant two entries here.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. The main franchise itself is surely vital (being a namesake for the Metroidvania subgenre), but is less deserving of subentries than Final Fantasy  5 (which has also one subentry).--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs)
3. I would argue that Metroid Prime is a more deserving sub-entry, but I'm not sure either quite pass the bar. λ NegativeMP1 18:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
5. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
6. My comment below misunderstood the proposal. I believed we were discussing removing Metroid  5. I'm fine removing Super Metroid, as per NegativeMP1 I don't believe this series needs a subentry. Mokadoshi (talk) 19:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I'd propose a swap with Metroidvania. Without a swap, I'd oppose removing Metroid  5. Mokadoshi (talk) 22:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (video game)

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Critically acclaimed and award winning computer rpg, but lacking an impact to the industry.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 05:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
4. The influence of this has probably diminished over time. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (video game) (swap for Tom Clancy's?)

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Not really sure what is special about this aside from being well-recieved and spawning Ubisoft's Tom Clancy's games. The overall Tom Clancy  5 branded franchise may count due to its longevity and spanning several different series of games, and arguably rivalling the fame of the author who inspired it but I'm not 100% sure if it makes the cut in terms of broader influence.

Support remove only

1. Makkool (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. --Thi (talk) 14:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. The biggest FPS milestones are Doom (1993 video game)  5 and Half-Life (video game)  5, others are less critical.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Somewhat agreeing with LaukkuTheGreit here. Definitely a popular and influential series, just not seeing this being highly important compared to Doom and Half-Life. λ NegativeMP1 19:22, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Just not that important when compared to Doom, Wolfenstein, Half Life and COD. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Support swap

1. Weak support for swap As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Digimon  5

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Wonder why it's included in the first place. In no way influential, and completely derivative of Pokemon.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 52 interwikis. The nom misunderstands the subject; while Digimon shares evolving monsters with Pokémon, Digimon is actually a derivative of Tamagotchi  5. The actual stories and gameplay of Digimon and Pokémon are different. Ultimately this is a popular and enduring (25+ years!) children’s franchise, spanning from virtual pets to video games, to anime (both TV and movies), to manga, to card games, that has spread from Japan to nations across the world. starship.paint 00:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

   Maybe video games is not the right place for this? Possibly it should be listed next to Tamagotchi in Toys. We could also add virtual pet as a top concept. Makkool (talk) 16:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: - it's a media franchise so it straddles several areas. If you want to move it, go ahead, I am alright. starship.paint 01:41, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. Meh, digimon was big back then, maybe not as much as pokemon but still somewhat influential. The Blue Rider 10:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Frogger

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Less pageviews than most of the video games proposed for removal above. I'd estimate this to have less cultural/industry impact than something like Lemmings (video game) which we don't list.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 21:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Less impactful than other classic arcade games. Agree with the discussion below, that page views shouldn't constitute the bulk of justifications for removal. Makkool (talk) 08:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

   Yeah, poor wording on my part – I at least should've swapped the sentences or something. I thought it too obvious that people would check articles for vitality claims and give only partial consideration to stats (even if given as justification), like I had to elaborate here.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

3. Support swap with Lemmings (video game). Mokadoshi (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
4. λ NegativeMP1 20:26, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• If we're looking to remove Frogger mostly on the grounds of pageviews then we could go further and remove Ultima (series)  5, Galaga, Rogue (video game)  5, Colossal Cave Adventure  5, The Oregon Trail (1971 video game)  5, King's Quest  5, Elite (video game)  5, and LucasArts adventure games  5 as they all have fewer total pageviews and fewer monthly average page views than Frogger[1]. It's also important to note that this is not entirely due to recentism since entries like Zork  5 doesn't have this problem. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:24, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

  Perhaps I should've emphasised the lack of compelling vitality claims more explicitly (comparing with Lemmings which has e.g. influenced RTSes was more of my point), but out of those Galaga is also something I'd remove.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 05:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

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Add Customer service  5

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A major component of the Retail  3 industry.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 08:34, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:50, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Featherbedding

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Describes an interesting phenomenon, but as someone studying labor economics, this concept is very rarely used.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:34, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Central Bank

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One of the most important economic agents. Central banks (such as the Federal Reserve  5), conduct Monetary policy  5, targeting inflation, interest rates, employment, and growth.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:36, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 21:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Mensa International

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Not to be harsh, but this feels more like a club for smart people than an organization whose activities have an impact on the world.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. The entire list of organizations could use some culling. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Maybe not massively powerful, but it is very well-known internationally, as seen through the high number of pageviews and interwikis. Iostn (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Pixar  5

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I'm not really sure if I need to explain this nomination? We list Toy Story  4, but not the studio behind it? That produced some of the highest grossing and most influential animated films ever made?

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 22:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. (The Walt Disney Company  4 is LV4, so we could list a subsidiary for it. Makkool (talk) 11:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom, notable omission. starship.paint 15:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Speed typing contest

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Niche competition that has close to zero impact on society other than helping to choose the best keyboard layout. The Blue Rider 01:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 01:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 11:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Stub with one interwiki. starship.paint 15:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
5. How did this even get added? λ NegativeMP1 18:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add record label

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This is the main way the recording part of the Music industry  4 is organized.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 13:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 00:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Film studio  5

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Similar to the Record label nomination above.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:18, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Homemaking  5

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It's synonymous with Housekeeping  5. I don't know if that makes it vital or not, but it's a common daily activity for many people.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 16:11, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Very common. starship.paint 02:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:38, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 08:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Two merge discussions with no consensus, sigh. I guess it is vital - but frankly, I also think it should be merged. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Scandal  5

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A major concept in sociology, one that is commonly the subject of news coverage. Maybe place under Social norm  4 in Sociology?

Support

1. feminist🩸 (talk) 11:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:05, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 09:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Should be listed, now if only the news would shut up about them. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Foreshadowing  5

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An essential part of storytelling, used in a majority of all stories.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:15, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Joint product

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Economics concept, but short article with only 6 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. starship.paint 03:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Innuendo  5 to Communication

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Figure of speech, one of the tropes, used for comedic or insulting effect. starship.paint 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Unrestricted Warfare

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Why is this book in War and military? Someone might have added this because it was confused for Total war  5, which is already listed.

Support

1. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Seems insignificant. The Blue Rider 11:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 02:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 02:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:05, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add A Song of Ice and Fire  5

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The original novels that Game of Thrones  5 TV show is based on. We don't list any fantasy books for 21st century fiction and this is an obvious candidate to cover the absence.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Seems like a very obvious pick for vitality. λ NegativeMP1 20:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Absolutely, surprised it wasn't already on the list. Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
4. There's a problem if Harry Potter is the latest. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

   ASOIAF is older than Harry Potter. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:39, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

   Actually, there's His Dark Materials  5 too. But no non-YA fantasy. Makkool (talk) 11:08, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

• Actually, I think we should consider this as 20th century literature, as the first book was published in 1996. Harry Potter  4 are the only fantasy books from the same period that we list. Makkool (talk) 21:12, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Roguelike  5

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Look, I understand that this is a decently popular sub-genre of Role-playing video games, but this is the kind of video game sub-genre that feels too specific and unimportant for vitality. It is not a core video game genre.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 23:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. The core concepts (permadeath and procedural generation) have spread beyond RPGs, the article covers also the wider "roguelite" concept.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per above. If we think that we need to cut one more video game article, I would choose Rogue (video game)  5 over this. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
3. I would rather cut Rogue than the genre it created. Also, per LaukkuTheGreit. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Keep this and swap Rogue for MGS2 as I said above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 19:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Chilling effect

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More of a general concept. 12 iwikis, ~150 dailies. Maybe could go under psychology? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. less vital than Coercion  5 or Censorship  4-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per above Makkool (talk) 08:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Policy  5

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Parent topic to Public policy  4.

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 13:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. The Blue Rider 14:57, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Most policies are implemented by governments, so it is right for Public policy  4 to be at a higher level than Policy. However, thinks like "staff policy" and "insurance policy" exist and are common. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Political party additions

Add Institutional Revolutionary Party

One of the longest-ruling dominant parties

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in the world, in a country with a population of over 100 million. Also, Latin American parties are unrepresented.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Justicialist Party

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The main organ of Peronism that remains extant today, albeit in a very complex and divided fashion.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Ba'ath Party

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Pan-Arab precusor to the longtime sole ruling parties of both Syria and Iraq.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Likud

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The most powerful political force for decades in one of the states party to the one of the world's longest-running conflicts. We also list both the Palestine Liberation Organization  5 and Hamas  5.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Communist Party of Vietnam

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Sole ruling party in state of over 100 million people - I think this may be the largest ML state aside from China and the USSR, actually.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Vital at this level, surely. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
4. It's at around 99 million, but vital nevertheless. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:38, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 03:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
6. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
7. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add National Party (South Africa)

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Dominant party for 40+ years, plus Apartheid  4 is VA4. African National Congress  5 is already listed.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add MPLA

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Dominant party in Angola for the past 40/50 years, plus one of the main parties to the Angolan Civil War  4 at VA4.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Not only in the Angolan Civil War but also in the Angolan War of Independence  5. The Blue Rider 16:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add some traditional musical instruments

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Add Guqin  5 to String instruments

30 interwikis. A 3,000+ year old Chinese instrument that is the oldest surviving Zither  5. One of the UNESCO Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity. Played by Confucius  3, Emperor Huizong of Song  5, and others. Reduces systemic bias. starship.paint 14:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Guzheng  5 to String instruments

Also 30 interwikis, also a Chinese Zither  5. The guzheng is the most popular traditional instrument in China. It has more than 2,500 years of history, and still remains the most-learned traditional instrument in Chinese families. The guzheng can be considered the equivalent of the piano in Western music, said Luo Xiaoci, director of Shanghai Chinese Orchestra. Reduces systemic bias. starship.paint 14:14, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:14, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Ney  5 to Wind instruments

Another instrument to reduce systemic bias. Used prominently in Persian, Turkish, Jewish and Arabic music. According to the article, "The ney has been played continually for 4,500–5,000 years, dating back to ancient Egypt, making it one of the oldest musical instruments still in use." Has 28 interwikis.

Support

1. as nom. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 07:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Islamic calligraphy  5 to Paper art

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History of more than 1000 years. Reduce systemic bias. 29 interwikis.

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 02:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Rated High-importance in WP Islam and Typography. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 18:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Transactions

Add Broker  5

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A major type of business which facilitates all sorts of transactions. Place under Business.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 05:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Law of agency  5

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The concept of an "agent" should be vital

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Financial transaction  5

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A major part of everyday life.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 05:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Commission (remuneration)  5

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The money gained by platforms such as Uber  5, Airbnb  5, or Apple Inc.  4's App Store (Apple) when facilitating transactions between a seller and a buyer. Apple in particular got into quite a lot of controversy recently with the EU with regards to how much commission it charges software developers.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 05:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Barter  5

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A historically important means of Trade  2 which remains common in less-developed societies.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 05:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. An important concept (even if anthropologists have shown that this doesn't really happen). SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. One of economic anthropology's insights is that barter is historically rare. Non-market exchange is usually in the form of a gift economy. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Pawnbroker  5

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Pawn shops are a common type of business.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove To Pimp a Butterfly  5

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Too recent with no proven industry impact. While this album was critically acclaimed, it's not even a decade old and has only one paragraph worth of legacy made up of about three sources. Compare this glaring lack of proven industry impact to an album like The Marshall Mathers LP  5, which has substantially more. There's also no miscellaneous reasons I could think of to justify listing it despite being recent, like ones I could see for Red, and I think what impact there is with this album is already covered by listing Kendrick Lamar  5 himself. I say that we remove this album and reassess it at a later date (preferably when its at least a decade old).

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 00:57, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Going neutral on this one now after seeing its critical acclaim is far beyond what I anticipated. λ NegativeMP1 05:09, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

1. (I'm whipping this up on mobile, so I apologize if it's incoherent) This album is a sore thumb on the list IMO. I mean it's good and very critically acclaimed, but it doesn't live up to the other albums we list. We list albums like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy  5 because of the massive influence. Did TPAB influence albums? Sure, but I don't it's justifiable or largely influenced by what we list. We don't need to list albums because they're good. For example, you might argue that we list The Marshall Mathers LP  5 because Eminem is well-known, and this is arguably his best work. I would argue it is mainly vital due to the album probably having one of the biggest controversies in music, where parents feared the obscene lyrics. It also showcased Eminem's emotional depth and anger coming from his background (A song's concept like Kim wasn't very popular). The same thing can be said with MBDTF, where we had songs like Runaway showcasing Kanye's vulnerability and many individuals stating that they were influenced from the album. The same case can be said for albums outside of Hip-hop. Jazz albums that have high reception, like The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, aren't listed because they don't show influence like Kind of Blue  4 or Bitches Brew  5. It might be vital in a couple of years, but it won't be as instant-seeing as MBDTF. 49p (talk) 05:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

   I don't want to come across like barging your vote, but what do you mean by "sticking out like a sore thumb?" One, I don't get this idea that TPAB hasn't influenced any work yet when it has been frequently cited to be one of David Bowie's main inspiration for his final album. Second, it is not just viewed by critics as being "very good". I remember when this album came out; the critical reception at the time was on par with what Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band received when that album came out. It has been non-stop "this is one of the greatest albums ever made" praise since its release, and as evidenced by its current position on RYM it has shown no sign of receding. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. This album might be a little too recent to be fully judged regarding its legacy (although you're acting like it came out in 2018), but to say it's just critically acclaimed is massively underselling it. To Pimp a Butterfly has not just been praised by critics, it has been frequently proclaimed for years following its release as being The Greatest Hip-Hop Album Ever Made. I'm not against having Red on here solely on the fact that its artist is a Level 4 article (in fact, that's basically been my rationale for some of my nominations), but its claim for vitality is much weaker than TPAB. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:17, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

   How am I acting like the album came out in 2018? And could we see examples of it being hailed as THE greatest hip hop album of all time? The only one I'm seeing in the article right now is the list from the Rolling Stones, the user-generated RYM, and some best albums of the decade lists. If there could be more concrete proof of that bold statement being as frequent as implied here then I'll withdraw. λ NegativeMP1 03:36, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

2. per above. Besides, it's currently #1 most highly rated album of all time on RateYourMusic. Makkool (talk) 06:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Easily one of the most influential 2010s albums. Iostn (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Not sure how this can even be close to being viewed as "sticking out like a sore thumb." On a purely critical basis, it is miles ahead of the other rap albums mentioned here. If you want evidence of this being one of the greatest albums of all time, here you go: #1 album of the 2010s using the critic aggregator AOTY [2], 19th on the Rolling Stones 500 Greatest Albums of all Time, 5th greatest album of all time according to aggregated critic reviews on Metacritic [3], and the #1 album of all time in user scores according to AOTY [4]. It is also worth noting that To Pimp a Butterfly is ahead of both the Marshall Mathers LP and MBDTF according to Rolling Stones' Top 200 Greatest Hip Hop Albums of All Time [5]. TPAB also plays a pretty big role in the cultural zeitgeist e.g. how Barack Obama's favorite album of 2015 was TPAB and how his favorite song was 'How much a dollar cost?' on that album. Also I'm not sure how you can justify including Marshall Mathers LP on the basis of Eminem's emotional depth and anger and MBDTF for Kanye's vulnerability, neither of which particularly seem that difficult to accomplish when TPAB was one of the first albums that was able to meld political commentary and poetry on social and racial injustices into a mainstream success. Aurangzebra (talk) 17:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

1. @49p: I'm looking to withdraw this nomination since I severely underestimated its influence and importance, after realizing it might be the most critically acclaimed album to release in this century. Do you still maintain your vote for delisting the album? λ NegativeMP1 02:56, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

   Doesn't look like it's gonna be successful, so probably withdraw. 49p (talk) 03:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Orisha, Shango, and Oshun

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Right now, we only have two articles listed under African mythological figures. I think we can afford having at least one or two more. The Orishas are the de facto pantheon of Santería, Candomblé, and the original Yoruba religion. (I know that they’re just spirits who are only worshipped like gods due to how distant the actual one is.) If possible, I would like to nominate one of the Orishas by themselves. Out of all of them, I think Shango is the most well-known. NOTE: Proposal now includes Oshun, per Makkool.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. If we would add Shango, then Oshun would warrant a place as well as a female Orisha (and her article states that "Oshun is one of the most popular and venerated Orishas"). --Makkool (talk) 06:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Phrygian cap  5

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Historically relevant piece of clothing and heraldic symbol.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. --Thi (talk) 13:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. It was even made into the 2024 Olympic mascot. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:50, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Shunning  5

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More of a general concept. 8 iwikis, ~150 dailies. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

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Add Sous vide

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Another very common food preparation technique.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Weakly. Pretty niche but still seems common enough to include. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak support Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Niche, and rated Mid-importance in Wikiproject Food and drink Makkool (talk) 08:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Labeling theory

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From the article: "The theory was prominent during the 1960s and 1970s, and some modified versions of the theory have developed and are still currently popular." This is included in high school sociology textbooks.

Support

1. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:03, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Mentioned often enough in modern sociological literature too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Rated mid-importance in its Wikiprojects. Would support Self-fulfilling prophecy instead. Makkool (talk) 08:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I wonder if Self-fulfilling prophecy is a more indicated article to include. The Blue Rider 22:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Posture (psychology)  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:20, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:56, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Subtopics of Property  3

Add Commercial property  5

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The concept of "real estate developed for profit" is increasingly common around the world.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Real property  5

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One of the few major types of Property  3

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:13, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Personal property  5

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ditto

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Product (business)  5

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The outcome of a process. Do I have to explain this further?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 00:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Racial discrimination

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A major subtopic of Racism  3.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:46, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• What's the difference between the two?? The Blue Rider 14:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

  Indeed. I think they need a merge discussion. If there is a difference, it is not clear from the article. There is a hatnote that says "This article is about specific discriminatory actions and processes. For the broader concept, see Racism." yet I fail to see the difference. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  @The Blue Rider And done: Talk:Racism#Merge_from_Racial_discrimination. Let's see if anyone can answer your question. I can't. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:30, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  I interpret racism to be the ideology and racial discrimination to be the implementation of these racist ideas in the real world. I think they should be two separate articles but I agree that from the way both articles are written, it is extremely confusing. Aurangzebra (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Rapport

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Not too sure about this (only 13 interwikis) but it may be a viable concept at V5.

Support

1. Weak support as nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Krakus

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A bit above we are discussing adding "The mythical founder of the first Korean kingdom." (3:0 right now). Well, ok, here's the Polish equivalent. 21 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Positive psychology  5

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Somewhat recent (started in 1998) but it has now become a major concept in the study of psychology.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:37, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 18:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Taiwanese Mandarin

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The standard variety of language spoken in Taiwan  3.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:17, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support only swap. Support add, but we already list 16 varieties of Chinese, so I suggest swapping Huizhou Chinese which has only 5 million speakers - compared to Taiwanese Mandarin having 4,6 million first language and 15 million second language speakers. --Makkool (talk) 12:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add King of the Delta Blues Singers, Anthology of American Folk Music, and/or A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector

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I also noticed that we don’t have any compilation albums on here as well. Now, unlike live albums, I don’t think it’s necessary to have any compilations on here. That said, I do feel like that these three are at least important enough to worth discussion on including to this list.

First, we got King of the Delta Blues Singers by Robert Johnson  4. For a lot of people like Bob Dylan  4, Keith Richards  5, Robert Plant  5, and Eric Clapton  5 this was the first time they’ve heard of Johnson, and boy did it changed their lives forever. I think it’s safe to say rock would’ve been a completely different beast if this album has not been released.

The next album is usually held to help fuel the American folk music revival scene. A lot of folk musicians are believed to be inspired by this album, and a lot of musicians on this compilation will later see their careers revived. Includes recordings by Carter Family  5, Charley Patton  5, Blind Lemon Jefferson  5, and Uncle Dave Macon  5.

The last one is admittedly the weakest of the three. I’m only mentioning this because I believe that this is usually held to be the greatest Christmas album ever made. A fine example of the Wall of Sound championed by Phil Spector  5. Has very nice renditions of “Frosty the Snowman”, “Sleigh Ride”, and “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus” by The Ronettes  5, and brought us “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)”.

Add King of the Delta Blues Singers

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:40, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Anthology of American Folk Music

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Add A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector

Oppose

1. All have 6 interwikis, suggesting lack of cross-cultural signficance. starship.paint 08:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per above. Also, if these are to be added only to include compilation albums, we should hold for now. --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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