Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 9

Archive 5

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Archive 9

Archive 10

Add The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady

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The article largely talks about how it’s one of the greatest jazz albums ever made. It’s rated high on WikiProject Jazz, and as of this writing rateyourmusic has it as #14 on their overall album charts.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:40, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I say this as a jazz fan but it is extremely difficult for jazz albums to achieve a level of vitality similar to the other albums in different genres we list. We list Kind of Blue  4 because it had extraordinary cross-genre appeal and we also list A Love Supreme  5 because it is universally regarded as a top 3 jazz album of all time. I would bet most people in general wouldn't know Charles Mingus as compared to Miles Davis or John Coltrane and even jazz fans wouldn't be able to name this album. Even out of Mingus' discography, I would choose Mingus Ah Um over this since it is also considered one of the greatest jazz albums of all time and has two tracks with their own Wikipedia articles (including the well-known political protest track Fables of Faubus) as opposed to 0 on The Black Saint. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:20, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose per Aurangzebra. I think it would make sense to list more songs than albums from the jazz genre. Jazz standard is not yet a vital article even. --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

   Oh man, didn't even notice that. Would support an add for Jazz standard. Aurangzebra (talk) 08:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Music genre proposals

Swap Outsider music for Mandopop

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I believe there was some discussion on "outsider musicians" on the people section, and as someone who is at least somewhat familiar with the topic, I don't think its vital as it a somewhat niche and often-controversial term. The definition is rather murky and it can refer to people with mental illnesses, self-taught musicians, ir even sometimes works from "established" musicians (Trout Mask Replica is mentioned in the article). I think listing the more common term Outsider art  4 alone is a better term. As for Mandopop, we already list J-pop  5 and K-pop  5 so alongside it I think them I think it also makes sense to list a representative for popular music in the PRC, until recently the most populous country in the world (there is also C-pop, but I believe that term was only termed in correlation to the other two, whereas Mandopop has more interwikis and pageviews).

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 23:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support removal. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removal per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Swap with Cantopop, per below. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Swap with Cantopop instead Makkool (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Add Cantopop  5 instead, which has higher page views than Mandopop. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Add Cantopop per feminist. Mandopop being only named after Cantopop existed showed how Cantopop had significantly spread cross culturally first. starship.paint (RUN) 12:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Swap Muzak for Latin pop

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Muzak seems rather redundant when we already list Background music  5, Easy listening  5 and Lounge music  5, so I think the former brand name needs to go. Latin pop sort of works as an answer to K-pop/J-pop/Mandopop even if it doesn't exactly mean "Spanish-language pop", but even so "J-pop" isn't synonymous with "Japanese popular music" et al, and "Latin" here covers a vast region.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 23:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Support swap: background music already covers Muzak/elevator music well. Makkool (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Progressive music for Progressive rock

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I assume "progressive music" is here as an attempt to use an umbrella term that includes progressive rock, but as a term it doesn't even refer so much to any specific style as it does various subgenres with "progressive" in the name. The only other "progressive" genres that are really linked to prog rock are Progressive metal (which makes sense given that metal is pretty directly derived from rock), progressive pop and maybe Progressive soul, although that ones a lot less direct. In any case, all three of those are much less vital or well-known as progressive rock, which has far higher pageviews and interwikis than all of them or the umbrella page, and is one of the most significant rock genres.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 23:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Prog rock is definitely the most vital type of prog. Makkool (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Fantasy literature  5

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Fantasy  4 is V4 but it has no V5 children outside the recently added invisibility. This seems like a major subtopic. Suprisingly, science fiction literature is just a redirect. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Thi (talk) 09:53, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Definitely support--Zorro2212 (talk) 11:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Simulation hypothesis  5

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Fun/mindblowing stuff that both philosophers and sf writers tackle, influencing popculture too. 23 interwikis, ~1k daily page views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. As someone who does not look into philosophy very much, I have thought about this myself a few times. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Balance of trade and Balance of payments

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These are indicators of the sustainability of a country's economy, with major influence on international finance and trade policy.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 15:41, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support BOT-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 10:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 01:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:44, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. BOP-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Discuss

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Add Globalism  5

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A major concept in political science and within Globalization  3.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 08:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Significant oversight. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 17:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Meh, neo-nationalism seems like a better candidate, nowadays at least. The Blue Rider 15:09, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

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Swap: Remove National Congress of Brazil, Add Parliament of India  5

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We currently only list four national legislatures: Brazil, China, the U.K., and the U.S. Of the four, Brazil seems odd since it is only a major regional (not global) power, and it has a presidential system of government. I would prefer to have the Indian parliament. India is a much, much, larger country that can be considered an emerging global power. It also seems that, on the English Wikipedia, the legislature of the world's largest Anglophone country would be vital enough for this level.

Support

1. As nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:46, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 15:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Support addition.. Neutral on removal. Gizza (talk) 01:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
6. India could use a bit more representation compared to the US and UK. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:35, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal. This list is not anglophone centric and Brazil is regional power on South America just like India is in South Asia. The Blue Rider 22:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Mammary intercourse  5, possible swap with fingering (sexual act)

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Not entirely sure why mammary intercourse is listed here: fairly niche sexual act (in the grand scheme of all sexual acts) and doesn't have the same cultural legacy as the other acts we include. We can possibly replace it with fingering which is much more common and addresses sysbias a bit since it lends itself more towards female sexuality. Fingering also wins in all the metrics: 54 interwikis vs 47 interwikis, 6000 daily page views vs 2300.

Support

1. Support swap as nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:58, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support add/Oppose remove. MI may seem niche in comparison to F(sa) because not all breast cleavage is sufficient to host MI, while all vagina are able to host F(sa). MI may be less common than Oral and digital/manual breast engagement, but I am not convinced MI is trivial.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

   Swap per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:26, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

4. Change to support add/oppose remove per TonyTheTiger and Piotrus. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:38, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. That's quite a statement, TonyTheTiger. Support addition per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Support addition Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal, no objection to addition. 47 interwikis, over 2k daily pageviews. We should have room for this kind of fetish - the numbers do not suggest it is too niche for V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose removal per Piotrus. The Blue Rider 15:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Swap Japanese bondage for Sadomasochism

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Japanese bondage/kinbaku/shibari is a rather niche subset or style of bondage that lacks the overall level of societal recognition or importance as most of the other activities listed under the sexuality section, while Sadomasochism, the most well-known part of the BDSM acronym and one with which BDSM as a whole is often confused with (BDSM is an umbrella term that also includes "Bondage and discipline" and "dominance and submission" as these may not necessarily involve pain, which is what sadomasochism refers to specifically) is conspicuously absent.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 23:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Seens reasonable. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. I was thinking "I'm surprised the latter isn't listed" then realized BDSM  4 is. Still, a fair proposal. feminist🚰 (talk) 02:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 03:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:08, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Per nom. The broader article is more vital. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Japanese bondage is the most common form of bondage, not that niche. Sadomasochism is already covered by other articles. The Blue Rider 14:10, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Color field

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For some reason, this is a respected type of art. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
2. I have no idea why this is so popular but it is. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Risk  5

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The reason why Insurance  3 exists. Can plausibly be at V4. Place this under Economics.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, but I think it would be better under Everyday Life than Economics. It is not a strictly economic term, it is part of all areas of life. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

   Well, yeah, it's part of all areas of life in the same way Oxygen  3 and Curiosity  4 are, but that alone doesn't mean it should be placed under Everyday life. Risk guides decision-making, and judging the level of risk to make a choice or another is primarily an economics topic with some psychology involved. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

4. Risk (game)  5 but not Risk? starship.paint (RUN) 01:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add soul food

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Culinary traditions of African-Americans.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:45, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tom's Diner

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This song played a huge part in the development of the MP3.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not vital enough as a song --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Niche trivia in the development of Digital audio. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Huh? Isn't MP3 a format for audio? The Blue Rider 00:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

  The song was used for testing digital compression. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Tuvan language

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The Siberian Turkic language family has c. 750k-1m speakers, so Yakut should cover it well. Tuvan’s native speakers are at ~250k. No, these kinds of languages are not vital at V5. Vileplume (talk) 01:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. In general, we really need to clean up the languages section. As I mention in one of the threads above, we list languages with 200k speakers and don't list some with 4+ million. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I also disagree with every country’s official languages being vital. What else makes languages like Nauruan language  5, Tuvaluan language  5, etc. vital at V5? Vileplume (talk) 01:16, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   You mentioned here that we could regularly have some subsection for focused work. That would be fun to do for languages for example. There are languages with no speakers but that are culturally important like Syriac language  5 and languages with millions of speakers like Chhattisgarhi language  5 that doesn't seem to have anything else significant about them. It would be good to hear more people's opinions on what to include and on what basis. --Makkool (talk) 12:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

3. Support per nom. --Makkool (talk) 17:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add James Bond  5

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Pretty famous series. Note that this is different from James Bond (literary character)  4, who is at V4. But the series should be V5 at least. Or perhaps a swap can be considered later - I have trouble deciding what is more vital (the character or the series). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support either add or swap with the character per TompaDompa. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:35, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Support addition. Oppose swap. Don’t forget that James Bond the character is a level 4 article. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
8. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• I don't think we should list the franchise and character separately, and I think the inclusion of the character over the franchise is a rather obvious error. I would unreservedly support a swap. TompaDompa (talk) 13:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Gelatin dessert  5

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Also known as jelly or jello.

Support

1. As nominator. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Führer

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This title was basically only ever used by Adolf Hitler  3 and a few other German Nazis. As such, it overlaps a good bit with Dictator  5. It does not need to be listed.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:59, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 00:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Swap: Remove Crédit Agricole, add UBS  5

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I'm not seeing the need to include two French banks at the moment. IMO, the largest private bank in the world is more important than the world's largest cooperative financial institution.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:03, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:09, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
3. We should list a Swiss bank because they are known for bank secrecy. Especially since UBS merged with Credit Suisse, making it even more important as the only big Swiss bank. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:59, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Megami Tensei and/or Mass Effect

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Megami Tensei is highly popular in Japan, inspired Pokémon's monster collecting mechanic, and spawned the Persona series which has become very well-known internationally. It was one of the earliest video games to have mature storytelling and one of the earliest RPGs to have moral choices and multiple endings.

Mass Effect is one of the most important Western RPG series, created the dialogue wheel, and is noted for its representation of LGBT relationships.

Cadevo86 (talk) 17:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support Mass Effect. We had a big disucssion and manga/anime and I don't think MT was mentioned; and as someone interested in these topics, subjectively, I think ME is more famous. Interesting oversight, given we list IMHO too many video games already. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. We need less video game articles. Would reconsider if paired with articles to swap with. Makkool (talk) 20:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Conditional factor demands and Expansion path

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I propose to remove these to balance some of the recent additions we've made in economics. You are unlikely to hear these concepts outside of class.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. 2 interwikis each. Niche. starship.paint (RUN) 14:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 16:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. The articles do not explain why these topics are important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Open world  5

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A very important part of video games. It has existed since The Legend of Zelda (video game)  5 in the 1980s and was popular then, but it has since become really popular with the more recent console generations. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  5, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild  5, and Grand Theft Auto V  5 are all good examples of open world games.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Would easily list this before Skyrim or The Witcher (proposed for removal above). λ NegativeMP1 00:52, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Important concept in games. Kevinishere15 (talk) 03:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, as proposed above. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Minecraft as well. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add 1989 (album)

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Debatably the most important album from the discography of Taylor Swift  4. For being one of the most popular entertainers/artists of the 21st century thus far, it feels bizzare that none of her music is considered vital, and I think this album would be the one to list. This, alongside Red (Taylor Swift album), are generally considered the two main albums that made Swift the pop icon she is today. It was considered one of the best albums of the decade, the century, of all time, and also produced some of her most well known music (namely Blank Space, Shake It Off, and Bad Blood (Taylor Swift song), all of which were subject to their own analysis). It's not possible to list all of the retrospecitve commentary on this album in a nomination confined to a paragraph or two, but even a skim of the article's legacy section proves that this album would be deserving of vitality in my opinion. A similar case could be made with the aforementioned Red as well, but this one seems to have been more impactful to the music industry, and listing two of her albums may be a bit much at this current point in time. λ NegativeMP1 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Eurasian Economic Community

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A defunct organization superseded by the Eurasian Economic Union  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 07:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Book of the Civilized Man

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Presumably added because it is "believed to be the first English courtesy book", but it does not appear to have been particularly influential. Author Daniel of Beccles does not even have a Wiki page.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Courtesy book is not even listed at VA5, and I'm not sure if it should be. This book should not be anywhere near the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. With Etiquette  4, Emily Post would be an infinitely better choice. Note Baldassare Castiglione  5 as well, on this subject. J947 ‡ ^edits 07:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove The Secret of Monkey Island

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This game was really well-received, but we can't have every "best game of all time" on the list, and there are games like Super Mario World and Metroid Prime that are not listed despite having more sourcing for their position as "best game of all time" on that list. Additionally, this game is a subtopic of LucasArts adventure games  5, which is already listed, so the game would still be represented.

Support

1. As nom, although I would also be willing to support removing LucasArts adventure games  5 instead if that would be preferred. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
2. I have to give a reluctant support, as we did already vote to remove Planescape: Torment. We have to strictly limit what games we can list, and old school cult classics have less standing on the list than really innovating video games. Makkool (talk) 15:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
3. I am a fan and thought about removing this; LucasArts adventure games  5 is enough.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 15:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
5. We need a reconsideration of what video games truly qualify to be the most vital articles for an encyclopedia. Just because something was popular or a "cult classic" doesn't mean it left an impact on the entire industry. LucasArts adventure games  5 is already listed, and that's good in my opinion. λ NegativeMP1 20:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I would prefer to remove LucasArts adventure games instead as that's the page with much lower traffic and even collectively, I don't think they are as clearly defined as a single group as say, a single series/franchise would be. Iostn (talk) 19:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose per Iost, and I generally prefer to list the most important individual games rather than overall franchises Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Move Back to the Future  5 to Science fiction and fantasy

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Its own article lists it as a science fiction movie first and foremost, it's also a comedy but it's primarily sci-fi. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I think subcategory moves fall under the purview of WP:BOLD. Feel free to go ahead and make the change; if anyone disagrees, they can revert and start a new discussion. Aurangzebra (talk) 04:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
   1. That's what I'll do Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Sarong  5

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A fabric wrapped around the waist, worn in Southeast Asia, South Asia, Western Asia, Northern Africa, East Africa, West Africa, and on many Pacific islands.

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:24, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
3. 45 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 10:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Youth  5

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Place this under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Everyday life#Stages of life. Surprising omission imo.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. ... wasted on the young. Key stage of life. starship.paint (RUN) 12:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support --Makkool (talk) 21:36, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Whereas Teenager redirects to Adolescence, Youth is considered notably different. Not opposed to a redirect though.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Redundant to Adolescence  3 IMO. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Vitality

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I am sure we can come up with good puns, but it is a vital concept at V5 either way. Well, I possibly. Just 4 interwikis. Discuss? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I think this is too vague, unfortunately, and that reflects in the lwo interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 05:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Starship. The same can be said about Importance. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Starship. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Ironically, vitality is not vital. It is also not about vitality as our project uses the word. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Accidental Death of an Anarchist

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No assertion of lasting impact or top importance in field (drama) czar 18:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. czar 18:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
2. 14 interwikis but no claim of significance in the article; it's notable but vital? Why? The article does not suggest it is more than just an average drama, comprable to thousands of others that got some minor acclaim. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:12, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Not vital Gizza (talk) 23:50, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
6. λ NegativeMP1 01:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. not particularly familiar with this work so will abstain from voting but it appears to be High-Importance over at Wikiproject Theater. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

   With no justification in either language Wikipedia's article so I don't read that as accurate czar 06:10, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Akamai Technologies  5

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An Internet infrastructure operator. It's not insignificant, but I can't say I would put it on a list of the world's top ~250 most important companies. There are many other companies which are just as or more important to the supply chain of their industry which we don't list .

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:23, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Basically invented content delivery networks. Without this, we wouldn't be able to do anything that we take for granted on the Internet today: everything from loading a news page with many high-res images to watching HD movies on Netflix with minimal latency. Aurangzebra (talk) 03:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft

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Stephen King's memoirs. Far from his best-known work.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 14:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
3. λ NegativeMP1 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 22:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Law of Austria and Law of Belgium

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Legal system of smallish countries. Not many distinctive elements about them. Low pageviews and interwikis as well.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 14:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 16:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Not really worth listing. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
6. λ NegativeMP1 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Praise  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Great catch by feminist! starship.paint (RUN) 05:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Lease  5

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Place under Banking and financing

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Important concept in business. starship.paint (RUN) 01:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cheating  5 to Interpersonal relations

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A prevalent type of action that is here to stay.

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:23, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
3. At first I thought this referred to cheating in relationships, but that article is entitled Infidelity  4. In any case, this is an easy support. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per feminist. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:33, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Self-defense  5

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A very common practice.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:29, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 09:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:54, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:14, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Miss America  5, Miss International and Miss Earth

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Viewership and general interest in beauty pageants have decreased dramatically in recent years, and we currently list five specific ones as vital (the others being Miss Universe  5 and Miss World  5). I note we have very few participants as Vital people: Armi Kuusela  5 and Margaret Gorman  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:52, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

1. Oppose Miss America due to the fact it was arguably the inspiration for the others. Support the other two per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Presidentman.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per presidentman. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per Presidentman. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Fashion week  5 and Haute couture  5

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Two of the most important concepts in Fashion  3. The former is often exchangeable with the "Big Four" fashion capital events.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:54, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support Fashion week. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support fashion week; I've already supported Haute couture above. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:18, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

I've nominated Haute couture above. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Femininity  5 and Masculinity  5

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Culturally significant, worldwide.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:48, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Economics concepts

Add Competition (economics)  5

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It is strange that we list Perfect competition  4 at V4 when it is more of a theoretical concept and teaching tool than something that reasonably describes markets. The general concept is more realistic and it is commonplace in capitalist economies.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cost  5

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It's a bit self-evident but no less important. We incur costs all the time, most inescapably in Opportunity cost  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Utility  5

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This concept underpins a lot of neoclassical microeconomics and its philosophical foundations, particularly the idea of utility maximization as the motivation of economic agents.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. How do we not have this Aurangzebra (talk) 01:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Political economy  5

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Although this overlaps some with Classical economics  5, it’s a continuing area of study with applications in policy analysis, economic distribution, international relations, etc.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. The predecessor of economics. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Economic equilibrium  5

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Another major concept. A framework for understanding how markets operate, how prices are determined, how agents make decisions, and how resources are allocated.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Economic model  5

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These are the workhorses in most of the profession. Paraphrasing Paul Krugman, economics can be considered a collection of models. We already list several, most notably Supply and demand  3.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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(not OP) Add Pareto efficiency  5

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Often considered the ultimate objective of economics. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Always struck me as a very memorable concept (still remember it from my student days). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Question  5

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Why is this not listed? Maybe place this under Information  4 in Social studies

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. How is this not listed? starship.paint (RUN) 15:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Yes. J947 ‡ ^edits 09:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
5. I ask questions every day. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
6. I question why this isn't listed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:43, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Petition  5

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Place under Politics and government maybe?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:20, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Vesak  5

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Major Buddhist holiday that's not yet listed.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. The most important festival in a religion with over 500 million adherents. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:49, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Major omission. starship.paint (RUN) 01:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Real-time strategy  5

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Very popular video game genre. An odd omission, considering that Turn-based strategy  5 is listed.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:58, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Very popular game genre, and there are plenty of individual game removals below that can make room for this to be included. Oppose swap, as turn-based strategy is even more important. @Aurangzebra: Do you think you could support this now that plenty of other game topics are being removed in other sections? QuicoleJR (talk) 15:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
4. @QuicoleJR: If you all think this is very important, I trust. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Would support a swap with Turn-based strategy  5 but not an outright addition. I definitely think we have way too many video game related articles so unless an exclusion is egregious, I'm apt to oppose. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:30, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Turn-based strategy was added last December, so only four months ago. Makkool (talk) 11:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add French New Wave  5

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This seems like a glaring omission from the history of film, especially if the Disney Renaissance  5 is included. A revolutionary film movement of experimentation in style, editing, and political/philosophical substance that rejected traditional filmmaking. Countless filmmakers and films related with the French New Wave are considered vital, including Jean-Luc Godard  4, François Truffaut  4, and Breathless (1960 film)  4. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 04:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 18:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 08:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 21:27, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Especially since Italian neorealism  5 is also listed Iostn (talk) 13:13, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Notable omission Aurangzebra (talk) 01:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
7. Commonly covered in film history.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
8. λ NegativeMP1 18:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

1. I presume this proposal was meant for the Society section so I will move it there. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:42, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

   I disagree, it belongs more in history. The French New Wave isn't a specific genre or style, it was a movement that lasted from the late 50s to late 60s. Italian neorealism  5 and New Hollywood  5 for example were also movements in film history in the history section of VA articles. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 03:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

   Ah my apologies. For some reason, I thought the other movements were under the Film section but I completely misread. Moving it back. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Pharmacy (shop)  5

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Pretty important alongside grocery store. Interstellarity (talk) 21:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 21:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
3. definitely, per nom. starship.paint 14:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Not quite as important as a grocery store but still vital. Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Grocery store  5

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Should be added alongside Shopping. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support  Carlwev  22:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Pretty important. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:40, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
5. λ NegativeMP1 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 22:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Namco  5 and Sega  5

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These two are more important to video games than basically every other video game development studio/publisher listed right now minus Nintendo  4 (not counting Sony  5 due to their other ventures). Namco created several video games we already consider vital (namely Pac-Man  5 and Galaga  5), which were some of the most important and remembered games in Amusement arcade  5s, as well as to the industry as a whole. I'd even opt getting rid of Galaga  5 in exchange for listing Namco, but this isn't a swap proposal.

Meanwhile, Sega  5 was the main competitor with Nintendo for a while and created Sonic the Hedgehog  5, as well its titular character (Sonic the Hedgehog (character)  5), arguably the third most iconic video game character behind Mario (and maybe Pac-Man). Both companies will undoubtably be relevant to video games for as long as the industry exists, just like Nintendo. Listing Blizzard Entertainment  5 and Electronic Arts  5 but not these seems like a massive oversight. λ NegativeMP1 19:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 19:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support both, feel stronger case for Sega though. Don't we already list things like the genesis and Sonic character and series. Company is more important than those.  Carlwev  22:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Sega-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Support both Iostn (talk) 13:04, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Support Sega, weak support Namco. Am certain that Pikachu  5 is in the top three video game characters of all time and that Hatsune Miku  5 should be removed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:54, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

   I think that, if we have as many superhero and animation characters listed as we do, we can give room for characters like Miku to be considered vital since her recognition spans beyond video games. You can't say that about many other video game characters. λ NegativeMP1 17:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

   I would agree. Most video game characters don't have real-world concerts that attract thousands of fans from across the world. There are other characters we can remove first. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

   I personally think that the video game characters we list right now are basically the perfect five for vitality. Four pop culture icons, and one that was highly influential to the industry ( Lara Croft  5.) I don't know who we could remove, or who we could add. λ NegativeMP1 20:00, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

6. Support both per nom. Very important gaming companies. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:54, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Chinese calligraphy  5

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Calligraphy  4 is VA3, and this form is very culturally important across East Asia, and has been for centuries. 28 interwikis is a good amount, and this article is rated Top-Importance by WikiProject China and WikiProject Religion and High-Importance by WikiProject Japan and WikiProject Korea.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Calligraphy only has one subtopic, here's a second. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Surprising omission in my opinion. starship.paint 14:25, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. A V3 topic should definitely have more subtopics. Kevinishere15 (talk) 06:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

• Just a note that I've proposed to downgrade Calligraphy  4 to V4. starship.paint 14:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

  Even if that passes, we should still have this on the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

  Obviously I agree. starship.paint 03:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Budget  5 to Accounting

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Key accounting concept. 76 interwikis. starship.paint 02:04, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 02:04, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
2. definitely Aurangzebra (talk) 05:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, although I'm not sure if we have the budget for this. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Training  5

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An important subtopic of Teaching, which is proposed above.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Scientific racism  5

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A practice which has led to major implications, such as the policies of the Nazi Party.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Similar to the topics I proposed a while ago that do not seem to be passing; all affected millions negatively. Sadly vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Thi (talk) 10:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Screaming  5

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This is probably somewhat weaker than #Add Crying or #Add Laughter above, but should still be appropriate for V5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. starship.paint 15:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Should be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Aaargh. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. \(°〇°)/ Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Joy  5

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Some overlap with Happiness  3 but at V5 it should be listed.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. A joyful idea indeed. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:53, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Catharsis  5

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Place under Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/5/Society_and_social_sciences/Social_studies#Emotions_and_traits

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. 52 interwikis. starship.paint 01:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Wuxia  5

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A genre of Chinese fiction that has existed for centuries, has cross-cultural appeal, and has been adapted to virtually every medium.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. With Jin Yong  4 (rightly) at V4, the genre of his works should be listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. Good balance for systemic bias. starship.paint 11:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap: Remove Taipei People, add The True Story of Ah Q  5

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I'll quote LaukkuTheGreit: Taipei People: 37th least viewed VA5/Arts article according to the bottom 10% list I've posted earlier. ~12 daily pageviews, 1 interwiki. Although praised in the Receptions section, I think in this case the obscurity outweighs the acclaim (and the high opinions are cited only to two people anyway). Moreover, we already list some other Chinese 20th century fiction such as Rickshaw Boy  5, Diary of a Madman (Lu Xun)  5, Fortress Besieged  5 and Red Sorghum (novel)  5, all of which get more pageviews.

Per the article, The True Story of Ah Q is generally held to be a masterpiece of modern Chinese literature, since it is considered the first piece of work to fully utilize vernacular Chinese after the 1919 May 4th Movement in China.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:58, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. This swap I can support --Makkool (talk) 13:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
4. At least it's an improvement.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 16:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:28, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Constitutional Commission and Golden rule (law)

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Niche concepts in constitutional law. Zero interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:48, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hokkien  5 to Vital Sino-Tibetan languages

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We list the language Taiwanese Hokkien, but not the wider Hokkien language, which is also spoken by millions in China, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, and hundreds of thousands in Indonesia and Cambodia. 25 interwikis.

Support

1. as nominator (and OK with swap). starship.paint 14:59, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support as a straight addition currently but if space needs to be made, Taiwanese Hokkien can be swapped out. Gizza (talk) 04:03, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support only swap. We already list 16 varieties of Chinese. One possibility could be Huizhou Chinese which only has 5,4 million speakers, compared to 27,7 million Hokkien speakers in total. I wouldn't swap Taiwanese Hokkien with much more speakers. --Makkool (talk) 12:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Swap with Taiwanese Hokkien. How did that even happen? SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:15, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Support only swap with Taiwanese Hokkien. EleniXDD※Talk 08:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Purple Rain (album)

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I know we already have Sign o’ the Times on here, but this is Prince’s best selling album. It’s Prince’s first album to reach number one on the Billboard 200. It’s believed to have sold 25 million copies worldwide. It inspired the Parental Advisory sticker. And all nine of its tracks (including “When Doves Cry”, “Let’s Go Crazy”, and its title track) have their own article. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:56, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 02:15, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Quality of life  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:21, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Important for all. starship.paint 15:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Major component for welfare states. The Blue Rider 13:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Wish mine was better ◔_◔ Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:42, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @Feminist: - where should it be listed? starship.paint (RUN) 08:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

  Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Biology and health sciences/Health#Health and fitness: General if seeing this as more of a general health concept, or Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Social studies#Concepts if seeing this as more of a psychology concept. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:54, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Yaoi  5

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A genre of fiction written by women for women featuring same-sex relationships dating back to the 1970s. 1485 daily views last year, 44 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --EleniXDD※Talk 06:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. Should we also nominate its counterpart, Yuri (genre)? Vileplume (talk) 01:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

   Good catch. I'll support it if nominated. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:44, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

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Swap Metallica (album)  5 with Master of Puppets (and maybe Enter Sandman)

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It might be a little hypocritical to advocate this while also pushing for the inclusion of Prince’s Purple Rain album, but while I think that album is just as vital as Sign o’ the Times, I don’t feel the same way regarding Metallica’s self-titled album. Yes, it made Metallica one of the biggest bands on the planet, but Master of Puppets is not only held to be their greatest album, it’s also held to be one of the greatest metal albums of all time, especially in the realm of extreme metal. Maybe we can also add “Enter Sandman” as a compromise?

Support

1. Support swap with Master of Puppets only. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap, and addition of "Enter Sandman". Easily Metallica's most vital album (and Enter Sandman is a good replacement for the removed Black Album) --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support addition --Thi (talk) 10:17, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not really convinced Master of Puppets is more vital than the Black Album as a cultural landmark. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Title removals

Considering that King  5 and President (government title)  5 are only VA5, some of these more obscure titles should not be listed. I have nominated a few below, and nominated Führer in a separate section above.

Remove Grand duke

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Only ever used by Luxembourg and some old European city-states that have since become part of larger countries.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Archduke

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It was only ever used by the Habsburgs of Austria.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Khan (title)

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Outside of its use by Genghis Khan and the other rulers of the Mongol Empire, this has never really been a very important title. The first sentence even explicitly says that the term is like King  5, and I don't think anyone will argue that it is at the same level of importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Esquire

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Not really significant in any way.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
5. sort of just an honorific.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:28, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Satrap

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The title for a provincial ruler in a few ancient empires. Not seeing the significance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Shah

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Another word for king, used by the Iranians and a few other related societies. It literally translates to king.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 14:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Paramount Pictures

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One of the major movie studios.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Collective responsibility  5

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Per discussion a few threads above, likely a V5 topic. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:49, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @Piotrus: - where should it be placed? starship.paint (RUN) 08:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
• @Piotrus, Hanif Al Husaini, Feminist, and SailorGardevoir: - anyone has an idea? ^ starship.paint (RUN) 14:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

  Somewhere under Social sciences, but not sure where specifically. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Business model  5

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Place under Business: General at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Very important. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add recent culture wars concepts

Alreedy at V5: Political correctness  5 . --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

The main concept Culture war, which takes a more timeless approach, might be best added first. On the other hand it has some overlap with the already-listed Political polarization  5. Nonetheless, Culture war gets more pageviews... --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. feminist🚰 (talk) 12:30, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Add Cancel culture

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40 interwikis; ~1.5k daily views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Social rejection  5 is already at VA5. "Cancel culture" is merely a new term for that. I'm not convinced this will stay relevant in 5-10 years time. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose --Thi (talk) 10:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 01:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

I would support adding Boycott which is the more general phenomenon. Gizza (talk) 11:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Woke

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33 interwikis; over 5k(!) daily views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too recent and it's more a dictionary term than a concept. By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began using the term sarcastically as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies. In turn, some commentators came to consider woke an offensive term that disparages persons who promote progressive ideas involving identity and race. I'm not convinced it will stay popular in 5-10 years, especially if it continues to take on a more pejorative meaning. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose per above. --Thi (talk) 10:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Recent and seems vague. starship.paint 01:39, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Inclusive language

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Just 6 interwikis, ~50 dailys. I guess it will not make the cut, to my surprise. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Gender-neutral language has 26 interwikis. Maybe that would be a better listing? feminist🚰 (talk) 06:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Social justice warrior

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25 interwikis, ~300 dailies. Borderline vital? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. As with "woke" – this is recent (albeit maybe a bit less so) and more a dictionary term than a concept. I'd argue that usage of "SJW" has already been on a decline since around 2015. We don't even list Alt-right, which is at least (or had been) a significant political movement in the US rather than just a phrase. I'm not convinced Alt-right should be listed either, but SJW is less significant than that. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose Just a recent pejorative. --Thi (talk) 10:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 01:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Superstition (song)

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Stevie Wonder’s signature song. We can probably have more funk music than just Sign o’ the Times.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose though I can be swayed if we clean up the entire list. Not sure we really need a second funk representative especially since Stevie Wonder is already represented by Songs in the Key of Life  5 and though Superstition is a great and well-known track, I don't think it has anything extremely notable about it either on chart performance, RIAA-type certifications, or lasting cultural legacy. That being said, I think we need to rehaul our modern songs list because I think I would add Superstition over (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay  5. Both are well-known songs with catchy tunes that a lot of people recognize but I think at this point, Superstition has a more lasting cultural impact. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per Aurangzebra. starship.paint (RUN) 13:35, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add At Folsom Prison (potential swap with I Walk the Line  5)

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Not only does the country section not have any albums, none of the albums that are listed are live albums. If pushed, we can swapped this out with “I Walk the Line”, although personally I think Johnny Cash can have more than one work on here.

Add only

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support adding At Folsom Prison per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Swap

Oppose

1. per below, Take Me Home, Country Roads is a better option. starship.paint (RUN) 13:37, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. Neutral but lean oppose for two reasons. First, Johnny Cash's brand of country and folk is fairly unique to the United States and doesn't have the global notability of the other music we include on this list. I think that's also why it makes sense that country currently has zero albums. Though it's definitely changing with the melding between country and pop, country has typically had negligible appeal outside the states. Second, we have other country candidates across both songs/albums that should be considered before we consider a second Johnny Cash work. Off the top of my head, I'd rather include Take Me Home, Country Roads by John Denver which has more interwikis/greater sales outside the United States/more recognizability within the US than either At Folsom Prison or I Walk the Line. I'd also rather include one of Taylor Swift's early country albums which all have 40+ interwikis and global reach (I think at this point, it's clear that her fame and impact have surpassed recentism bias). Aurangzebra (talk) 22:09, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

   I would definitely support including Country Roads. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Limerence

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3,034 daily views last year, #4 on {{Love sidebar}}.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:36, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Work of art  5

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Place under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Arts#General? I think the general concept of an artwork is vital at this level.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add independent record label

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The namesake for Independent music  5.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:58, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support since most artists begin their carrers through it. The Blue Rider 20:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Between Record label  5 and Independent music  5, I'm not seeing the need to list their intersection especially since both are only V5. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:07, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per feminist. starship.paint 14:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Error  5

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A major thing in different disciplines.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:19, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 08:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. nom Aurangzebra (talk) 08:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 21:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. ERROR: unable to load support message QuicoleJR (talk) 23:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:30, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Place this under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Physical sciences/Basics and measurement#Science basics. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:03, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Feeling  5

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Everyone feels, and they experience feelings differently. An important topic in psychology.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:34, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:17, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Although there is some overlap with Qualia  5.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:31, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. I feel this is much more vital than qualia. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:19, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 04:07, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Legislator  5

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An important political position which wields influence on the creation of laws. Known by various names worldwide.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:59, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:12, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Voting

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Notable omission. Interstellarity (talk) 23:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
2. I vote to include this Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 13:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Consider V4 as well. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 22:24, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
8. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:53, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
9. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove USA Network, Add The CW  5

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The CW is considered one of the major five TV networks in the United States, USA isn't.

Support

1. As nominator. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 17:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. USA Network was never a particularly major player in television and we already list their much more notable parent, NBC  5. Aurangzebra (talk) 02:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom and Aurangzebra. 49p (talk) 14:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 06:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

   Could you elaborate further on your problem with the change? Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 07:33, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

   I have zero idea how I put this in oppose and not support. Moving oppose down so my vote goes towards support, I have no problem with the change. λ NegativeMP1 07:37, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Should have probably mentioned this in the nom, The CW gets 2200~ page views a day while USA gets around 1400~ views a day. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:25, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

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Remove TEFI

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6 interwikis only. Russian award show. Compare with British Academy Television Awards  5 which has 22 interwikis. 15:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 15:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. I have a feeling that Russian topics are overrepresented on the list. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:03, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Bottom 10% VA5/Society and social sciences articles by pageviews

Least viewed articles first, using pageviews from 2020-01-01 to 2024-02-07:

Extended content

List of humor magazines Alarm for Cobra 11 – The Highway Police Metaconstitution The Funnies Substitution (law) Petalism Gedenkdienst Fringe benefits tax Funnies on Parade Drug prohibition Graphetics Law of Egypt Proactive law Library of the Russian Academy of Sciences Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society Id, ego and superego Discrimination based on skin tone One Man's Family Master (judiciary) Final clause Pontificia Universidad Javeriana Yulanpen Sutra International judicial institution Fundamental Laws of England Law of Cuba Declaration of Interdependence Coroner's jury People Are Funny American Journal of Biological Anthropology Quantitative linguistics Law of Austria Reformism (historical) Party-directed mediation Law of Venezuela LATAM Airlines Confucius' Birthday International Broadcasting Convention Authentication (law) Noûs Fantasy fandom Cultural emphasis News council Mobico Group The Journal of Philosophy Uniform act Maritime administrations Journal of Zoology Interpretive discussion International Democracy Union Hiroshima University TEFI Philosophy and Phenomenological Research Double Third Festival Sunday magazine Arab States Broadcasting Union Currency packaging Paris Charter Diplomatic cable Inns of Chancery The Zoological Record Rule of lenity China Electronics Technology Group Corporation Ethnic media Currency band Community paper Art and culture law The Mercury Theatre on the Air Popular assembly Opening statement Lists of legislation Graphemics French Sign Language family Direct examination Conditional factor demands Leibniz University Hannover Residual media Instrument of Government United Nations Radio Transmashholding Groundskeeping Featherbedding BANZSL Law of Portugal Law of Denmark Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society Transphonologization Television studies Patent office Law of Sweden Bar council The sea in culture Ministry of justice Criminal conversion Deception (criminal law) United States trust law Future interest Association des États Généraux des Étudiants de l'Europe Chilseok Palaeontology (journal) Joint product European Physical Journal Beneficiary (trust) Politics of Taiwan Record sealing Law of Ukraine Law commission Law of Romania Council of the Baltic Sea States Luba-Katanga language Lifestyle journalism College of Justice Economic torts Television addiction Law of Afghanistan Barristers' chambers American Journal of Botany Sequential bilingualism Rwanda-Rundi Hybrid security Famous Funnies Crelle's Journal Chemical Reviews Escalation clause Discretionary trust Boasian anthropology Law of Belgium King's Inns Bi-metallic coin Paradiplomacy Executive agreement Closed shop Jewel in the Palace Anglo-Saxon charters The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition Factual television Collaborative law University of Würzburg Central Treaty Organization Denaturalization Court of Session Charter 08 Relevance (law) Law of Iraq International Mathematical Union Eurasian Economic Community The Science of Nature Patentability Military volunteer Law of Poland Korail Huizhou Chinese Polycentric law Law of the Netherlands Hybrid offence Closing argument Syntactic change Japan Post Bank Town & Country (magazine) Medical humanities Berlin State Library Law of Spain Law society Cacography Autonomous University of Barcelona Virtual influencer Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs Law of Mexico Judgment notwithstanding verdict Technical University of Braunschweig Euratom Constructive trust Capital appreciation Cultural materialism (anthropology) United States Tax Court Ritual warfare Crib talk Bulletin of the American Mathematical Society Legal informatics International Planned Parenthood Federation Contrastive linguistics Tactical formation Occupational injury Media strategy Environmental humanities Deskilling Civil Procedure Rules Suzhou dialect Makassar people Common purpose The Kyle and Jackie O Show Law of Brazil El Mundo (Spain) Out (magazine) Little Britain (TV series) Erasmus University Rotterdam Organic law Mind (journal) Misprision of felony CSI (franchise) Sunrise (Australian TV program) Group living Housekeeper (domestic worker) Writers Guild of America West The Returned (French TV series) Media event Intentional tort Gig economy University of Strasbourg Petit jury Folha de S.Paulo Distrust Systems psychology Filing (law) Dissimilation Clinical neuroscience Metafunction Gaming convention Expansion path Print syndication Observer status Comptes rendus de l'Académie des Sciences Cold Food Festival Child psychopathology University of Mainz Journal of the American Chemical Society European Arrest Warrant Centrist Democrat International University of Stuttgart Stagecoach Group Empire (magazine) Tokyo Institute of Technology International Council on Monuments and Sites Clarín (Argentine newspaper) AFL-CIO Weekly Shōnen Magazine University of Münster Megabus (North America) British Academy United Nations resolution Lawyer-supported mediation Trades Union Congress Kyodo News Judicial system of Turkey Siemens Mobility Shortland Street International order Guilt (law) Civil death Battery (tort) Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society Law of Switzerland False pretenses Dagens Nyheter Assault (tort) Sukuma language Gratification Dongzhi (solar term) Resource war Renfe Marooning League of Corinth Estate in land National Library of Russia Legal proceeding Law of Taiwan Technische Universität Darmstadt Physical Review Madurese language Behavioral contagion Xi'an Jiaotong University Easter basket Law of Thailand Hokkaido University Command of the sea Tin mining Nationality law Independent Commission Against Corruption (Hong Kong) Constitutional Commission University of Innsbruck Broadcom Paley Center for Media Nagoya University Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme Autonomous University of Madrid International Council for Science Inter-Parliamentary Union Municipal charter American Public Media Lima Group Corporate manslaughter Possession of stolen goods Partition (politics) Fortition Arts journalism Akan languages Islamic Azad University Civil law notary List of fashion magazines Cluttering Trade show Cyrillization Central European Free Trade Agreement Amnesty law Abjuration

These were assembled with the same principles as LaukkuTheGreit's bottom 10% Technology and Arts article lists. --Makkool (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Remove lowly-viewed linguistics articles

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(in increasing order of views)

1. Graphetics - branch of linguistics concerned with the analysis of the physical properties of shapes used in writing. A stub with only 2 interwikis.
2. Final clause - a type of clause in a sentence. The article mentions that its very rare in English (and doesn't mention its role in other languages)
3. Quantitative linguistics - branch of linguistics that deals with language learning, language change, and application as well as structure of natural languages. Has more interwikis than the others, but still feels too niche topic to be considered vital
4. Graphemics - linguistic study of writing systems and their basic components, i.e. graphemes. Another niche branch of research.
5. Transphonologization - a type of sound change. 1 interwiki.
6. Sequential bilingualism - when a person becomes bilingual by first learning one language and then another. 0 interwikis.
7. Syntactic change - a type of change in languages. 1 interwiki.
8. Cacography - another name for bad spelling or bad handwriting. Doesn't seem vital.
9. Crib talk - a thing small children learning to speak do. A cute detail, but doesn't really fit V5.
10. Contrastive linguistics - seeks to describe the differences and similarities between a pair of languages. Another small branch of linguistics.
11. Dissimilation - another type of sound change. This one also has more interwikis than the others, but still seems too niche.
12. Fortition - a less common type of sound change.
13. Cluttering - a type of speech disorder. Speech disorder itself is V5, so a specific disorder should really demonstrate its vitality in the article.
14. Cyrillization - changing text into the Cyrillic alphabet from another writing system. Another very narrow topic.

Most of these were added by me a long time ago, following SethAllen623's vital articles list. So I'm trying to clean after myself, sort of. How do you feel for their place in the list?

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
2. This is a very good method, I would probably remove almost all other entries on the list. Support per nominator. The Blue Rider 20:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support all. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Nice work, remove all Aurangzebra (talk) 05:22, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:44, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove (or swap) lowly-viewed language articles

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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1. French Sign Language family - low views and 8 interwikis. Could be swapped with French Sign Language.
2. BANZSL (British, Australian and New Zealand Sign Language) - low views and short in length. British Sign Language has its own article, which would be a much better match as vital.
3. Suzhou dialect - a dialect of Chinese, seems less vital than the other Chinese variants that are listed.
4. Huizhou Chinese - another dialect of Chinese. Only 5 million speakers in China and the article doesn't show how it could be considered vital.
5. Madurese language - 4th most spoken language in Indonesia. We list the 3 largest languages and this one doesn't seem remarkable in some way to be considered vital.
6. Sukuma language - we list many Bantu languages and this article doesn't show its vitality as well.

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:12, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Swap first two with French Sign Language and British Sign Language respectively, support remove Suzhou dialect. Neutral on the rest for reasons below. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:35, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 00:34, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

1. The 3 languages you mention here all have a lot more native speakers than some of the other languages we currently list e.g. Bashkir language  5, Nuosu language  5, Yakut language  5, Sardinian language  5, the list goes on and on. Maybe some of these other languages have some unique linguistic properties or regional importance which is why they are included here but I don't think it's fair to remove these languages with 5-8 million speakers when there are so many languages we include with 1 million speakers or less. The languages section probably needs a more concerted overhaul. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:41, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
   1. The languages you mention have an official or some other legal status in their respective countries or country subdivisions, which has been the grounds for being included. A lot of the specific languages listing has been my work, and I looked less on speaker numbers or linguistic details (I studied some linguistics in university, but don't have enough knowledge to rely on that). Your suggestion for an in-depth examination sounds great, and I would really like to see more people's views expressed in this section, as it's a subject I find interesting. --Makkool (talk) 08:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

      Yea that's fair. I would be fine with removing these at the end of the day but I just want some consistent framework we can apply. For example, we don't list Kabyle language/Tamazight even though it is one of the two official languages of Algeria  3 and has 4 million speakers (maybe it's because we list the parent Berber languages  4? But if that's the case, we also list both Sardinian and its parent Romance languages  4 and other smaller languages and their parents). Aurangzebra (talk) 09:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove lowly-viewed psychology articles

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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1. Systems psychology - A branch of psychology that seems niche. Rated mid-importance in Wikiproject Psychology.
2. Clinical neuroscience - Rated top-importance, but low views. Should probably be moved to Biology and health sciences section rather that Psychology.
3. Child psychopathology - Rated top-importance, but low views. Could be an outlier. Psychopathology  5 itself is V5 (and rated just high-importance).
4. Gratification - Rated mid-importance. There's other emotions that I would remove before this, but let's start with this one (because of low views).
5. Behavioral contagion - Rated mid-importance. The umbrella topic Social contagion  5 is just V5 as well.

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 17:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. They all have low interwikis as well. Can move Clinical neuroscience to Health. starship.paint 12:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Move Clinical neuroscience to Health; remove the rest. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Mixed

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.