THF

To jog my own memory:

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Business process reengineering

Thanks for reverting the vandal's edit. Kai A. Simon 22:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Criticism of atheism‎ reversion

Thanks, Ted, for your vigilant reversion of two edits by 68.6.209.141 - you marked your own edit as minor, but had the previous edits stayed, they would have effected a major loss. -- Jmc 06:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Nelson Frank

Is your grandfather the reporter Nelson Frank? Just curious and you don't have to tell me if he was. Vassyana 02:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Why? --THF 11:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Spurred by the AFD discussion, I looked out of curiousity. It seems he actually is notable. ;o) He was quite an active figure during the Red Scare, often cited by commentators and government officials of the time. It was actually interesting reading. Also, I found that I admire his rhetorical talent. As a writer, I really enjoyed reading his skillful use of language.You've got some excellant literary genes in you. o:-) Be well!! Vassyana 12:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to get back to library to find some of the references, but I'll gladly send you what I could find. Give me a day or two to compile some notes. If I neglect this (that is you don't receive a mail from me by Thursday), please drop me a reminder on my talk page. Sorry for the delay, I just researched it out of my own curiousity, not intending to keep notes. Cheers! Vassyana 17:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

ANI

Thanks for fixing the noticeboard. I was about to start doing the same thing, after seeing the edit that annihilated 8 days of threads: these kinds of repairs are difficult and fraught with edit conflicts because the place is so active. There is a bug that sometimes causes previous threads to disappear (it's happened to me on ANI) but I'm not sure that's what happened here. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 18:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Liebeck

Thanks for pointing that out; it was a wretched way to say "tort reform". For whatever it's worth, I think you've done an excellent job editing. Few editors announce their potential biases so clearly as you do on the talk page, and I find that admirable.

Incidentally, I happen to be a student at the University of Chicago Law School. Cool Hand Luke 06:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Just make any edits you see fit; you seem to have a good grasp of WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. I'll keep an eye on tort reform though. I just spent over an hour reading it and checking citations, and you're right that it's POV. It's not even formatted very well. I support any improvements you can make. Cool Hand Luke 21:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the article requires a complete teardown. I'll finish a rewrite in my sandbox (where I'm working off an older version of the article that also has problems, but not as many), and run it by you and the talk page before I do the change. -- THF 21:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

apology for my behavior towards you

I deeply apologize for my April 3 personal attack on you on the talk page of the Israel Shahak article. I particularly regret having written: "If you feel you can't be objective about this article, move somewhere else. There's plenty of work to be done in Wikipedia." You were right to refer to this outburst as an act of bullying, seeking to chase you from the page. You have written: "I hope admins don't reward that sort of bullying". You will not be petty to seek administrative sanctions on me for this statement.

Again, i'm very sorry for my part of that altercation. It's no secret, that my opinions about the way the Shahak article should appear is vastly different from yours. I also disagree with you on a number of other substantial issues. But that's no excuse for me to treat you aggressively, as i did. I believe our joint collaboration on this article, along with the many other fine editors, may actually benefit the article, by promoting, in the course of time, the article's balance, as per Wikipedia's NPOV ideal. Itayb 16:43, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Thank you. I am all for a balanced article. For example, I recognize that there are reliably sourced defenders of Shahak that Wikipedia requires be cited, even though I find their views abhorrent and bigoted. I hope that we can reach a consensus on an NPOV article, and I appreciate the apology. I have no intention of seeking administrative sanctions. -- THF 22:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your selfless and gentlemanly reply. :) Itayb 22:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my page :)

I didn't even notice this [1] until I looked at that users history. I give you a big smile :-). ~AFA ^{Imagine I swore.} 22:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Concerned person (talk · contribs)

and all socks have been blocked indefinitely. If this user posts further rants on your talk page or elsewhere, you can post a notice to WP:AIV for immediate blocking. Thanks for your patience, OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 15:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Andijan massacre

Hi, When you get a chance, please take a look at the last few edits I made to Andijan massacre. The only controversial thing I did was merging the press section into the May 13 section. I felt it was not important/long enough to merit a separate section. Is that alright? KazakhPol 20:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a look this weekend. //THF 12:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

John summers (basketball player)

Thank for your input on this article's entry at WP:COIN. I don't know enough about the college game to know who or what is notable. Can you place a delete tag on the article? Bearian 02:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Much thanks...

Just wanted to stop by to thank you for your help in undoing many of those vandalism edits! That was about a days-worth of my WikiLife.... Thank you, thank you, thank you.... —  MusicMaker 18:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Unbalanced tag

I'm leaving you a note out of good will and in good faith, in the hope that we can work together to resolve the unbalanced tag dispute. —Viriditas | Talk 21:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I've mostly worked on expanding and cleaning up the synopsis section. At this time, it is 839 words in length, which is acceptable according to WP:FILMS guidelines. If there are any outstanding issues with the synopsis, or areas you would like to see developed/expanded/corrected, please do not hesitate to contact me on my talk page. —Viriditas | Talk 05:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The guidelines actually say between 400 and 700 words, and my version was at the high end of that, but in the interests of compromise, I'm not going to make a fuss over an extra 100 words. I'm stepping away from WP for a few days, and I hope the broad strokes of that consensus are retained by other editors in my absence. Thanks for your patience, good-faith efforts, and willingness to compromise. THF 06:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words. The guidelines are speaking of an average plot length, and plot lengths for films just under 900 words are very common and rarely controversial. Take a look at Category:FA-Class film articles. A random sample of five out of 51 featured film articles gives the following plot lengths:Casablanca, 697; Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, 761; V for Vendetta, 812; Borat, 838; and Jaws, 886. As of this post, Sicko has 834 words in the plot section. If you have any interest in getting further clarification on this matter on the film project discussion page, I'll join you. —Viriditas | Talk 11:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

FYI...There's a discussion in progress at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Films#Plot_synopses_too_long.3F. —Viriditas | Talk 11:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Multiple chemical sensitivity

Thanks for helping keep the NPOV. I know we can't wander over to pure SPOV, but science certainly isn't supportive of this diagnosis. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply WP:CIVIL

I wasn't stirring the pot or making personal attacks. His inability to take responsibility for his own actions is childish, and should be brought to his attention for the good of the community. I'm not going to add my comment on his page back, as long as he's read it that's all I can do and it's up to him to grow.►Chris Nelson 22:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Jeff Winter

Hi. Thank you for your edits to the above page. You may be aware that the freemason reference was the subject of dispute (albeit not directly through the article talk page). Your edit seems to have assuaged the disputor, as it has not been further reverted. I am also happy with the edit, as the other party in the dispute, so I thank you for your input on this. Best wishes. Ref ^(chew)(do) 09:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

A star for you

I'm sorry to read about that posting of you name and number by a bad apple. :( I wish I could help you, but all I can do is give you this star. —  $PЯINGεrαgђ  18:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

You don't know me; at least I don't think you do. I have been watching Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents‎ and noticed the comments about you and Michael Moore. I made a comment there and I hope I didn't make a fool out of myself there. But I am strongly against outing of editors like Moore has done with you. If you have any problems with what I have said then please by all mean tell me on my talk page and I will make corrections or delete it. I am not sensitive to criticism at all and I am just trying to help stop this kind of stuff. Oh by the way, I like the movies that he makes thought I haven't seen Sicko yet but I do look foreward to seeing it. :) --CrohnieGal^Talk 21:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Sicko pages

I've been looking over your attempts to get to NPOV on the page -- nice job. But I disagree with (a) cutting down the "plot summary" section, and (b) cutting down the criticism from an article to a mere section of the movie. The movie got millions of people to think about health-care, which many have said is the No. 1 domestic issue in the presidential campaign so far (I'm not sure about that but it's certainly one of the top issues). The movie also generated quite a debate over the points that it made. There's an interesting consensus on some points: Critics of Moore agreeing that the U.S. healthcare system is a mess; people on the left criticizing Moore's lack of balance.

To adequately describe the controversy, a separate article is needed. Thanks for being polite, but if you disagree that the controversy article is not worthwhile, I'd rather hear your reasons for that instead of a suggestion to just summarize it. Don't patronize.

Also, the critical response section (film reviewers) in the article as it stands now simply gives one-liner, drive-by blurbs when critical analysis is more useful to the reader. We don't need 19 critics saying the same thing, each in one line (I'm exaggerating, but not much); we need to show consensus opinion among critics, particularly major critics, and that gives the reader some insight, even in a relatively short space. Since the critical response blends in with the political response, it is best presented in the "Controversy about" article. The details in the "plot summary" section, which I had added and which have since been deleted, were useful for anyone actually interested in understanding (or perhaps trying to remember) the many, many, many details that Moore piled on in the movie. How anyone (you?) thinks a shorter summary is more valuable is something I don't understand. I can see a three-paragraph summary version with subsections, but not the vague summary that exists now.

You talk about smb's "invitation" to add to the article. I've dealt with smb. He's proven himself or herself to be a total partisan. I have not seen one edit by him or comment by him that didn't attempt to show Moore in the best light. For all I know, he is Michael Moore. He's shown himself to be a propagandist. I'm an editor who's added positive and negative information because I want to get at the truth. What are you?

Sorry if I sound angry. I am. I'm not walking it off. Noroton 03:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

"Wikipedia is not a quote farm" Now you're talking. I guess I could exaggerate in the same way you just have ... but it's not worth it. When quotes work, they're worth using. If you have a more exact criticism, that might be useful. My mind is open. Noroton 03:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand your quote farm comment or what you think I exaggerated.

As for your desire for what the article should include, I agree that the drive-by criticism in the article is inadequate. That's why I keep suggesting you merge the articles. Not summarize. Merge, so no content is lost: after all, there was a consensus to merge the pages, and Smb keeps telling you that's what he wants. If stuff gets deleted from the merged Sicko page that you think should stay, then people can discuss that.

But maybe what you're looking for is a Debate over United States healthcare policy in the 2008 election article? Or a Sicko and the United States healthcare policy debate article? I can't promise you if you create either of those they won't be deleted. For all I know, an article with a similar but different name on the same subject already exists.

I've found smb to be partisan, also. But he eventually accedes to consensus when WP:DR disagrees with him. There is a consensus that the plot summary should be under 900 words, and a consensus that there shouldn't be a separate article. (Though, given the history of the Fahrenheit 9/11, I suspect if you add enough reliably sourced material about the movie, Moore partisans will be asking to move it back to the separate article.) The problem with the latter consensus, is that the agreement was to merge the articles, and then the articles didn't get merged. You should be bold and do that.

Please don't ask accusatory questions like "I'm an editor who's added positive and negative information because I want to get at the truth. What are you?" It's not civil and implies that you are not assuming good faith. I'm trying to help you. We both want an NPOV article, right?

If you're angry, WP:COOL. It's Wikipedia and not worth getting angry over. Moreover, getting angry is always always always counterproductive to whatever it is you are trying to accomplish. Here, you're about to alienate an editor who could be on your side.

If you think Smb is acting in bad faith, don't make personal attacks; make edits that conform to consensus and to policy. Then, if Smb reverts, he will demonstrate bad faith. If Smb is actually POV-pushing, and you have the diffs to prove it, then WP:RFC will solve the problem. But right now, if a third party were to look at what is happening, they would see Smb protecting the talk-page consensus, and you edit-warring and being uncivil about it. And if Smb is the one that's actually in the wrong, then your edit-warring only makes it easier for Smb to be wrong. Adhere to WP:BRD and no one can legitimately question you. THF 03:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

If you didn't like the YouTube links, you could have put the CNN links... BTW, why is a $400/hr attorney editing Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryLambda (talk • contribs) 19:43, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

award

		The Resilient Barnstar
		Okay, you melted my heart. Let's bury it (the hatchet, not my heart). David Shankbone 03:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Cool Hand Luke 03:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

You think that's a wow, check out WP:AN/I. THF 03:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Of all the alleged corporate evil, including "censorship" on Wikipedia, you're apparently the most pressing threat to the working men served by Michael Moore's homepage. Congratulations. Cool Hand Luke 03:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

What amazes me are the number of hate emails I get calling me fat. (That's what I get for skipping the opportunity for a photo reshoot after I lost forty pounds.) If fat is a relevant issue for them, why are they reading Michael Moore? Seriously: not a single cogent or coherent email. And it amazes me that the only consequence from all of this is that User:Noroton ended up with a 24-hour block from making the mistake of believing that Wikipedia rules meant what they said. THF 03:29, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Noroton has been unblocked. - Crockspot 04:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't believe the BS with MM.com, i've just spent days clearing up after Amnesty and the CIA and now MM brings his sicko project to battle on wikipedia. Wikipedia does need to start to defend itself in the real world from the threats it faces now and those in the future. The funniest thing is being threatened with a short bit on the Colbert Report OOOOHHHHH!!! ^{(Hypnosadist)} 04:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[[

AFD followup

It seems to me that AfD is probably not the way to go. I've posted on the Sicko talk page, going through the motions which I doubt will get any kind of a fair hearing at all. Would you recommend an RFC or any particular way of going about an RFC? Noroton 19:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

As I've said several times, why not try to merge the pages? I think the act of merger would demonstrate your point of the need of a legitimate content fork than skipping that intermediate step would. Don't forget to add John Stossel's criticism.[2], [3] If you run into trouble with the merger, and Swatjester can't help you, then you can go to the RFC process. Because Wikipedia policies against harassment and canvassing aren't being enforced, I'm going to focus on other pages. THF 19:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't a merge lose a lot of content? Or are you suggesting I retain all or the vast majority of the content? If I'm going to lose three fourths of it, I'd rather not succeed in a merger. Noroton 20:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Retain the vast majority of the substantive notable sourced content, to the extent doing so is defensible. THF 20:20, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

A no-answer answer. Noroton 14:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Not in the slightest. I am merely telling you that you need to comply with WP:N, WP:V, and WP:WEIGHT. THF 14:32, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Why I am not going to get a new account

THF: If I were in your position, I might consider officially abandoning this account and starting a new anonymous user. Your openness about your POV and associations is admirable, but unfortunately, such openness only subjects you to ad-hominem attacks. One of the great things about Wikipedia is that anonymity eliminates ad-hominems and allows for a purely intellectual exchange without all the background noise of false COI allegations.

You could retire this account and disclose that you'll be back eventually with a new anonymous account. I don't see any problem with doing this if you disclose that fact beforehand and never edit as THF again. You might also want to avoid articles you've edited previously as THF, but there's plenty to do here so I'm sure you could find articles to work on. :-)

(You might want to run it by an admin to be sure it's OK first, if you decide to do it. I have some experience here, but others know more and could better advise you should you go that route)

Just my $0.02.

ATren 17:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice, which has been offered by a number of others. But I disagree that this is the best course of action:

1. I haven't done anything wrong, administrators agree that I haven't done anything wrong, and going away now in response to these attacks would be viewed as a concession that there was something shameful about my behavior.
2. Going away and ceasing editing any of the thousands of different articles I've edited is encouragement to use the same intimidation tactics against other editors, including the hypothetical future anonymous THF account.
3. I simply don't believe that Wikipedia will (or can) protect my anonymity in a new anonymous account. People with far less distinctive styles and public prominence than me have been outed. Too many people with axes to grind and nothing to do will sit down and compare thousands of edits to find the stylistic tics that will naturally be revealed--and then I'll be accused of bad-faith COI and sock-puppetry because I didn't disclose my identity. My legitimate edits are being spun dishonestly by left-wing blogs now--I mean, look at the conspiracy theories that are going on now, such as the theory that Merck hired my law firm in 2004 because they hoped I would quit that job and edit a Wikipedia article about a movie about healthcare in 2007. If I take your tactic, it will be falsely portrayed that I was forced from Wikipedia for bad conduct and tried to sneak back on.
4. If I leave, any new editor who is conservative (including the hypothetical future anonymous THF account) will be accused of being me in disguise, even if they are not. So I get the worst of both worlds: I'll be driven from Wikipedia, but blamed for edits that I am not making.

If Wikipedia would just enforce its policies and guidelines evenly, there would be no problem. Thank you for your suggestion, and for your defense of Wikipedia ideals. THF 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

You make several very good points here - leaving and coming back may indeed create more problems than it solves. It seems you may have thought this out more thoroughly than I did. :-) In any case, you seem to be able to maintain NPOV despite your admitted political leanings, so as long as you keep doing that, this false controversy should subside. Good luck. ATren 18:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)wi

Yeah, I agree. I don't think that leaving and starting a new account would be helpful in dealing with your recent problems. But anyway, I was wondering if you would you like me to delete the history of your userpage? Sarah 20:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

It's done. And don't worry, it's in no way a cover-up. Lots of people make the mistake of adding too much information when they're new and then later end up asking to have it deleted. It's also nice to have a clean slate from the vandalism. :) If you want it deleted again when you take down that mm message or have changed any other information, just leave a message on my talk page and I'll do it straight away. Sarah 20:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Hm

Mr Tetrahydrofuran, although you do not "work for" a pharmaceutical company, is it fair to say that you have, on at least one occasion, acted as a paid advocate for a pharmaceutical company in court?

I'm simply trying to get things straightened out. DS 23:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

In 2005, when I worked for a different employer, I performed legal work for a pharmaceutical manufacturer who had been falsely accused of violating the law in products-liability litigation. My work mostly involved issues of federal jurisdiction, the scope of protective orders in document discovery, procedural aspects of multi-district litigation, conflicts of laws issues, and class action certification. You are surely not suggesting that I have a conflict of interest with all of the clients and business partners of all of my former employers, because that would suggest that only teenagers and the habitually unemployed can edit Wikipedia articles. Please discuss at WP:COI/N#Sicko if this does not assuage your concerns. Thanks for asking, and have a nice day! THF 23:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I am not making any suggestions about whether you do or do not have a conflict of interest, as I frankly don't know enough about the situation. However, I would point out that the perception of conflict of interest can be significant, since a lawyer is typically paid to champion a particular point of view, rather than neutrality. As such, it is typically wisest for individuals who wish to edit Wikipedia in such circumstances to make full disclosure about their potential conflict.

I would also point out that your statement about "teenagers and the habitually unemployed" strikes me as disingenuous. We have many contributors who are themselves lawyers; at least one such is also an administrator. On more than one occasion, he has (informally) recused himself from editing an article because he felt that there might be a conflict of interest. DS 02:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

But, he has fully disclosed, and all he's gotten for it is grief! Meanwhile, thousands of other anonymous users hide their POV (because they can) and nobody questions them one bit. Is it just me that is bothered by the fact that we come down hardest on those who happen to be the most forthcoming? Is it any wonder that this editor is attempting to dissociate from his true identity, after all the unfounded accusations he's been subject to solely because of who he is? I've still not seen a single troublesome diff from him.

All I can say is, I'm glad I registered anonymously after seeing the way Wikipedia treats people who are forthcoming about their own identity and beliefs. ATren 02:26, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

ATren, while your concern about anonymity and how editors are treated is noted, I have found that Wikipedia is generally quite civil as a whole to those who disclose their identity and beliefs. I have edited with those from all belief systems and philosophies, and almost always with no issues. The problem is when those beliefs or associations affect how one edits, which is why Pastordavid is an administrator and Jason Gastrich is banned. It is why Agapetos angel is banned - and please note Agapetos angel did not reveal her identity, but was nevertheless banned for editing contrary to COI - although I believe this was before COI was written, and the specifics were for edit warring, POV, etc. Agapetos angel was one of those "thousands who hide their POV" and yet was banned. In short, I think that although the concerns you raise are valid, they are misapplied in this case. KillerChihuahua^?!? 02:56, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with what you are saying, and that's why I am still waiting to see one diff that shows problematic editing on the part of THF. I'm not saying there are none - I haven't interacted with THF much so I honestly don't know - but if there are, then the people making the COI accusations should provide those diffs for us to examine. If they don't, then it's hard for me not to assume that this is more about who he is than what he's done. ATren 03:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

All the crap you're getting recently.

Just wanted to let you know that you have my sympathy and moral support, even if I've not found the right way to give active support in discussions yet. Even though our politics couldn't be much further apart, I think that the attacks on you are, in many cases, rather hypocritical. Despite being a dirty lefty, I think it's inexcusable that left-wing COI and POV-pushing are tolerated to a much greater extent than right-wing ones. SamBC(talk) 15:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Waving the white Flag

Sorry to hear that you giving up but you have real life worth much more than your ctitics so you still win in the end. ^{(Hypnosadist)} 20:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Sicko merger

I had some concerns about the merger myself, but admittedly I haven't kept up with it as I was distracted by other issues. If you tell me what the problem is, then perhaps I can help out. Mind you, I don't think every notable person who has a point of view on the subject needs inclusion, but every notable point of view does. --David Shankbone 19:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree on that. It's points of view that are relevant, not individuals.

• Turtlescrubber sanitized the page.
• Ripe restored some of it, but you can see that much content has been lost, relegated to footnotes that Ripe indicates on the talk page that he intends to delete later. Some of the footnotes have nothing to do with the criticisms, and are there for POINTy reasons to encourage others to delete the whole thing.

I'm not endorsing the Noroton version, which I never had a chance to look at. THF 19:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Which points of view are not included? You don't have to give long explanations or descriptions, something like, "Nothing about Cuba being crap" kinds of statements will do. --David Shankbone 19:14, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Notable points of view omitted, off the top of my head:

1. The WHO rankings measure whether a country's medical system is socialized, not whether it is good. (Stossel)
2. Inaccurate portrayal of Canada. (Gratzer, Howell, Pipes, others)
3. Inaccurate portrayal of Great Britain. (Reinhoudt, others)
4. Inaccurate portrayal of Cuba. (Lowry, Smith, others)
5. Inaccurate portrayal of France. (Elder, Loder, Reinhoudt, others)
6. Failure to acknowledge any tradeoffs. (Mitchell, others)
7. Stale anecdotes of marginal relevance. (Freudenheim, others)
8. 45 million number misleading. (Elder, Tanner, many many others)
9. Inaccurate portrayal of socialized US services (Stossel)
10. Failure to account for benefits of competition (Tanner)
11. Kaiser inaccurately portrayed. (Kaiser)

THF 19:42, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, just reviewing this casually, #1 appears to be more a criticism of the WHO rankings than Moore. 2, 3, 4, and 5 should be in, but they an be lumped together. I need to consider the others. --David Shankbone 19:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for contributions to Oscar Grant article

Hello! I feel you very substantially improved Oscar Grant article. And some very recent edits of another editor were not right. You know whom I talk about. Thank you very much for taking care of this. Best! BaldPark (talk) 23:09, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

You've done good work. The page is looking better every day. Apologies again for my screw ups in the last 24 hours and thanks for putting up with it.Cptnono (talk) 23:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Also wanted to mention that it has been a pleasure seeing your input. Unfortunately, when we disagree with what certain editors on the other side of the political spectrum force, our persistence can change the tone of an article. This does not always change it for the better.Cptnono (talk) 06:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

BaldPark, and Cptnono, unless one of you is willing to open an RFC on Chris, I'm leaving the article. I refuse to keep cleaning up after him. THF (talk) 10:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I commented on his page per the RFC guidelines. I think my thoughts are laid out to both of you pretty well there so take a look if you get the chance. There are no worries if you don't feel like dealing with the frustration anymore. Your input was invaluable up to this point while interest from other editor's should be slowing down about now. Thanks for rescuing this article from a biased POV.Cptnono (talk) 21:55, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Edward Weidenfeld, notable or not?

I am interested in getting some feedback on the notablity of a certain article. Could you take a look at Edward Weidenfeld and see what you think? The article reads like a personal advert for this practicing attorney. Many of the sources that were added either did not mention him, mentioned him only in passing, or were from his personal bussiness website. Most of the achievments mentioned in the article don't have any sources to back them up(sources that mention him doing what article says). It seems as if he has not done anything to stand out from his peers. I am thinking about setting the article up for an afd debate, but wanted to get some input first. Thank you!!WackoJacko (talk) 01:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, well on one hand other stuff exists. On the other hand, that's not supposed to be a valid reason. Cool Hand Luke 01:32, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware that there are other articles about non-notable people. Hopefully, the existence of other non-notable articles won't set a precedent.WackoJacko (talk) 01:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I know. I just found this one interesting under the circumstances. Cool Hand Luke 02:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

True. What do you think about the notability of this particular article?WackoJacko (talk) 03:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

It seems to suffer from Wikipuffery; without looking at the edit history, I would guess some autobiography going on. If I were drawing notability lines from scratch, he wouldn't make the cut. But I'm relatively deletionist compared to the median Wikipedian, if you were asking me as a descriptive matter whether he's notable by current AFD interpretations of WP:N, I'd say yes because of the Washingtonian profile, which is more than a number of bios that have passed AFD muster have. I'd vote weak delete and eventually lose. But the Wikipedia roster of lawyer biographies is remarkably hit or miss; it's rather silly that some lawyers have lengthy meandering entries while Ted Ullyot and Ted Boutros are red-links (as was Laurie Levenson until last week when I created the article). Somebody really ought to be beefing up the lawyer bios on the site. THF (talk) 04:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

So, do you think it is futile to start an AFD? Also, the person who does most of the editing sometimes goes under IP. The IP geolocates to almost the exact location as Weidenfeld's law office. There was also one instance where Weidenfeld go into trouble with HUD, and when I add it in he keeps whitewashing it. Either way, thank you very much for your input!WackoJacko (talk) 05:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

If there's an autobiography issue, address the autobiography issue. If there's uncited stuff, tag the uncited stuff. If there's POV-pushing over well-cited material, address the POV-pushing through an RFC tag on the talk page. I wouldn't bet even money on an AFD, given persistent misunderstanding of WP:N, and the fact that I can't even get a deletion of a one-line stub of a fourth-tier Tamil terrorist without so much as a first name or known birthdate, but I cynically note that the COI may draw angry editors out of the woodwork to call for deletion, especially since it's a Republican at issue, which all good-hearted Wikipedians know is far worse than a terrorist. THF (talk) 05:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Heh. There are systemic AFD biases about COI. "Autobiographical" corporation articles get deleted all the time, even (sometimes) when the company is quite large. On the other hand, high schools and old college clubs usually don't—even when they're clearly terrible stubs written by students. It seems to depend largely on whether the average Wikipedian likes the imagined motives of the creator; like THF, I think this one might be deleted, but it's not a safe bet. Cool Hand Luke 05:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I want to thank you both for your guidance in this matter. I appreciate all of the feedback I have received from you.WackoJacko (talk) 22:30, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Now that I see the wails of outrage over self-promotion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael McDonnell, who has dozens more Google News hits than Weidenfeld (or Beauty Turner for that matter), perhaps I underestimate the odds of a successful AFD nomination. I forget that Wikipedia hates the appearance of conflict of interest more than it likes enforcing its rules even-handedly. THF (talk) 00:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Just watching the deletion process is fascinating. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Conservation Fallout: Nuclear Protest at Diablo Canyon is going to fail because one editor thinks it's notable because it's "in the Princeton library" (which has literally a million different volumes); another thinks the existence of three book reviews means this remaindered book is notable. Meanwhile, at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_January_18#Category:Tamil_terrorists, a series of POV pushers glorifying the Tamil Tigers is going to delete a legitimate category because they constitute a voting bloc to prevent identification of Tamil Tigers as terrorists. And again, the reasoning is completely lawless: despite the existence of Category:Palestinian terrorists and Category:Basque paramilitaries and Category:Kurdish terrorists, the claim is that "Tamil" is not a nationality (even as they have a nationalist terrorist movement) so the category is "racist." THF (talk) 08:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Zaid v. Bush into Waleed Said Bin Said Zaid

I would suggest merger as noted above instead of deletion of the material. Bearian (talk) 16:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea where you should put this disucssion, but WP:AFD is always good, or Talk:Zaid v. Bush or Talk:Waleed Said Bin Said Zaid. You may cut and paste my comments. BTW, I've merged the articles per WP:BOLD. Bearian (talk) 16:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you nominate 5-10 at a time. Or go to WP:AN/I for another suggestion. Bearian (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow. Filing spam. They look like little more than docket reports with form introductions. I can't believe you're the first to notice this. Cool Hand Luke 17:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Invisible Barnstar
		Thank you for your work on those articles that have been languishing in the backlogs. As someone once told me "Your good work goes unseen unless someone disagrees ;)" --BirgitteSB 01:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

BTW I stumbled on this comment. I don't know that it makes any real difference but I feel the need to correct a misconception. I don't work on the terrorism articles, but simply muck around the backlogs to a negligible effect. I saw the AN thread and was just frustrated to see an unecessary conflict brewing over those articles when there are so many articles with the same problem minus the conflict. Maybe I also was a little quicker to speak because I once misread a backlog and read some of those editors the riot act over a WP:TERRORISM problem and felt I owed them one.--BirgitteSB 01:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, and apologies for the misunderstanding. THF (talk) 02:32, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. I am sorry I didn't predict how my comments could seem like such a pile on to you and lead to unnecessary frustration. And frankly I could have done a better job of assuming good faith that your inquiry was as simple as it seemed.--BirgitteSB 02:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

UET

I noticed you tagged Unitary executive theory. If you get a chance, could you please elaborate at the talk page? I don't disagree with the tagging --- just think your explanation would help. Thanks.Ferrylodge (talk) 03:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Excellent comment. Thanks THF, and please watchlist this article so you can chime in as we try to fix it up. Thanks.Ferrylodge (talk) 04:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Ben Edmestone Barnes prod

I removed the prod. Please try to stick with reasons that are actually in the guidelines for policies you quote. I searched the page on notability and could find nothing about original research (which should just be removed from articles, not allowed to stand for months and days and prods) or about the timeline for "material improvements." --KP Botany (talk) 11:34, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I thought my PROD was a reasonable explanation of reasons for deletion (an unreferenced orphan article with a two-year-old notability tag is unlikely to demonstrate notability any time soon), but we'll see what the AFD process says. THF (talk) 11:42, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. I'm tired of all of the missing scientist articles on Wikipedia and the rampant deletionism that never seems to touch minor fake fiction works mentioned once in a Simpson episode but goes for the jugular when academics are concerned. And, god forbid, that someone at a university in a non-English speaking country might be notable. I won't be there for the AfD which is generally used in instances like this to force another editor to do the research and reference the article on the deletionist's time schedule. I'll edit on my own time schedule. --KP Botany (talk) 11:46, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I did the research before putting the tag on. You're not missing anything. I'm happy to man the battlefronts with you when you ask for a re-evaluation of the WP:N guidelines to deal with the fancruft and fifth-rate garage bands. The article had a notability tag since 2007 -- this isn't quite a rush to judgment. THF (talk) 11:49, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Puff

I appreciate your efforts to clean up the Scott Horton (lawyer) article, but it seems a little disingenuous to throw around WP:PUFF like it's a Wikipedia-endorsed policy. I think it's neat that you coined a word (though the word itself makes me cringe), but I think it would be easy to be careless and apply it too liberally.Athene cunicularia (talk) 20:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't pretend it's an endorsed policy; I use it as a shortcut. "X spoke on the radio and wrote blog posts about a notable case" (where the blog posts are misdescribed as the considerably more prestigious articles in the paper magazine) seems pretty much in the wheelhouse. For anyone really notable in the 21st century, that they once spoke on the radio isn't such a big deal. It's almost a negative pregnant to identify a specific radio interview. THF (talk) 21:09, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, I'm talking more about how WP:PUFF looks like a policy when you use it to justify your revisions. Also, Horton does regularly write for the magazine.Athene cunicularia (talk) 22:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

That's no different than WP:COATRACK or WP:HORSE or WP:STICK in that regard. THF (talk) 22:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Those three actually help to show the difference—they all have far more than five edits by a single author.Athene cunicularia (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

COATRACK went three months before it picked up a second author; this has been around less than three weeks. They all start somewhere. I think it's a useful concept that isn't covered in any other essay, and reflects a real subculture of Wikipedia behavior, but I've released it to the Wiki-world, so anyone can edit it now. THF (talk) 01:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. We don't need to come to a consensus on it. I think WP:PUFF makes a valid point. Hopefully some people will contribute to the essay, and maybe it will help to improve the RfD process—which in many ways encourages people to puff up an article if they want to keep it. However, I think you should be aware that until then, it may look like you're trying to make your opinion seem more official than it is.Athene cunicularia (talk) 01:56, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Walker

FYI, I'm pretty sure the "appalling Wikipedia omission" is due to the previous version being oversighted. Might want to make backup copies of your work! I had webcitation make one. --Elvey (talk) 20:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

ANI

Please see this. -- Vision Thing -- 18:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Re edit summaries: No, I tend to copy and paste what I write on talk pages to make the history easier to read. Cool Hand Luke 20:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I used to do the same thing, but then had people take issue with that when there was an acrimonious discussion. So I started just doing the "re" thing and nobody has said anything since. --David Shankbone 17:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

AfC Submission

Your nomination at Articles for Creation was a success, and Johanna Hurwitz was created. Please continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. Thank you for helping Wikipedia! TNXMan 15:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Reliable Sources

I have been following this discussion, as it relates to a disagreement I've had with another editor at the Middle East Media Research Institute article. My reading of the current state of that discussion is that there is clear consensus among the non-involved editors who have opined on this matter (Protonk, Jayjg, NoCal100 and yourself) that the blog source is to be used sparingly, if at all, and that since the points made in the blog are made more succinctly in reliable sources, there is no need to quote a blog. Accordingly, I have followed you own recommendation and rewritten the section, paraphrasing the arguments made rather than just quoting 4 sources. This was reverted by the same editor who wants to use the blog source. I would like some advice on how to proceed. Canadian Monkey (talk) 18:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I've tried a compromise edit. If that gets reverted, we'll use the {RFCpol} template. There isn't quite the consensus for the heavy axe you used, but if you reasonably summarize the quotefarm such that no substance can be claimed to have been lost, editors will see any POV-pushing from reverters for what it is. THF (talk) 18:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - you current compromise edit to the article is fine with me. Canadian Monkey (talk) 19:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Editors will also be less likely to object to an edit if you're simultaneously trimming the pro-MEMRI stuff at the same time as the anti-MEMRI stuff (you only tackled one of them). Both sections are too long. THF (talk) 19:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Sure, there is clearly much to be done on that page. Canadian Monkey (talk) 19:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

thanks!

Thanks for reading on Business Plot -- note also the "campaign" running against me which might be coordinated complete with socks on Fascism, Prescott Bush, Union Banking Corporation etc. <g>. All for the sake of POV pushing, I fear. Collect (talk) 11:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Sourcing

Thanks for the info. I was not aware of Yahoo link expiration. I searched for one of McCain's quotes from the article online and found a few different sources. Hopefully CNN's will last longer. If you don't think it will, let me know and I'll put in a different one.Athene cunicularia (talk) 22:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Save the Netbooks

Thanks for being level headed with your vote in the Save the Netbooks deletion debate - it's about time someone was. I've given a full week to this cause which gives me ZERO benefit and don't appreciate being attacked by other editors, particularly on the grounds of COI when none of them can point to a single instance of NPOV. -- samj _in^out 23:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

WP:COI is the most misunderstood policy on Wikipedia. Very unfortunate. THF (talk) 00:03, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully my essay will help rather than hinder. Thanks for being reasonable when others aren't. -- samj _in^out 06:15, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Heads up -- samj _in^out 04:42, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the supporting edit. The legal council part bothered me for the longest time, but it is hard to link to the section in the guys blog where he actually links to the SaveTheNetbooks.com article that mentions him "supporting them" and actually says "well no, I don't". If I had removed it, it would have got nasty again.

The other edit - yeah, I can see that was a sage one too. I know I have been told that "netbook" is now a "generic" term, but it's still pretty hard to find non blog, not anecdotal evidence. Things began to escalate today, so someone with a level head is much appreciated :-)

You seem like a nice fair guy. I'm glad you're involved. Please feel free to tell me if you believe I have stepped out of line, and please don't let SamJ use the strong arm tactics he seems to resort to when he can't win in a proper discussion.

Hopefully he has finally decided I'm no a sock puppet!

Thanks again Memsom (talk) 02:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

WP:BLP

Read it. Your edit is a blatant violation.[4] Completely unsourced contentious, in fact highly derogatory comments, which are entirely your opinion. Insert it again and you will be blocked. Ty 04:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I am well aware of the BLP policy, as I regularly patrol of the BLPN board. Your interpretation is ridiculous. Noting that a fringe attorney who regularly takes on quixotic meritless cases to make a political point is a fringe attorney who regularly takes on quixotic meritless cases to make a political point does not violate BLP. THF (talk) 04:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

That is exactly what it does: "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." You made a contentious statement, in fact a highly insulting one, about a living person with no source whatsoever, other than your own opinion. To be precise you said that a lawyer had not been "credible in over thirty [years]. The fact that he has taken the case is almost prima facie evidence of its meritlessness." Ty 04:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

And I stand by that. If Clark wants to bring another frivolous suit against me because I said that, he knows where to find me. THF (talk) 04:44, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

You are welcome to stand by that anywhere you want, but not on wikipedia. It is a misuse of editing privileges. Ty 04:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Again, your comments show a vast misunderstanding of BLP, and the ability to discuss on talk-pages whether someone is within the mainstream. THF (talk) 04:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It's an irrelevant discussion. It is the source that we need to examine and represent, which in this case is a reliable one, The New York Times. You seem to have some off-wiki issues with this individual, which are making themselves apparent on-wiki. You might like to step back from this one. Ty 04:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

There are no "off-wiki issues" here. The issue is the on-wiki issue of WP:UNDUE. Clark is holding a publicity stunt, and there's no reason for Wikipedia to honor it. WP:NOT#NEWS here: that the Times fell for a publicity stunt doesn't mean we have to. Wikipedia aspires to be more than the repository of every single New York Times article that crosses the wires. THF (talk) 05:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Resolution and compromise

THF, I have admiration for both your tenacity and intelligence. This is why I am attempting to open up a dialogue with you today. We both have much to offer toward improving the project, and our time better spent doing so is wasted while we argue with each when we could be building articles. To me editing wikipedia is just a hobby.. albeit one I enjoy.

THF, today I found some really disconcerting material Offwiki which may relate to perceptions of your editing behavior onsite.

As you might suppose, I have a successful track record of research, on and offwiki. The 1,368 words example does not even begin to adequately represent my researching capabilities. Research is time consuming and tedious so I would rather avoid looking at years of edit history. I really don't have an interest in tort reform and Michael Moore like you do, but I do worry about your behavior on Business Plot. So, the concerns of other editors that you may have a major conflict of interest in that article, is now becoming my concern, and more so everyday. It is among our greatest policies and guidelines that COI be keft at the door when entering wiki. I sincerely hope that we can close the wiki-etiquette case, and go our separate ways, each to continue improving the project. But as I have seen many times, editors who had thought themselves invincible were just a readily removed from these pages as were those found to be vandals or spammers or puppets. When it comes to protecting the project, there is no quarter given. In an attempt to work out a compromise, out of the public eye, you are welcome to email me, if you like. Ikip (talk) 22:38, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

What exactly are you threatening, Ikip? Your e-mail is turned off. THF (talk) 22:41, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

You're accusing him of having a conflict of interest in Business Plot (!?), or are you threatening to "expose" him if he doesn't walk away from that article? No one seems to think THF's behavior is sanctionable at the Wikiquette heading. Cool Hand Luke 22:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, I disabled my email. It is on now. Ikip (talk) 00:12, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Cotterill

Would you agree that returning the vote struck by the nom would be the correct step? Or will that just rile up the matter further. My thought is that no matter the "history" between the nom and the voter, the struck vote is just as relevent as anyone's. Opinion? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 23:58, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I've kind of reached my wikidrama quota for the month, and would prefer to avoid getting involved in new incidents, especially in a heated AfD where my !vote was pretty close to neutral; too, I think DreamGuy is mad at me because I stuck up a little bit for SamJ on another page, so my participation would not be prudent. Finally, Tyrenius already addressed this on DG's talk page. THF (talk) 00:02, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Though to ask. And understood. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject United States courts and judges

Wikipedia:WikiProject United States courts and judges is now open for business - let's get it organized and outline our tasks! bd2412 T 16:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment

Hi, what do you think of this proposal: Policy proposal to clarify the "directly related" principle? Cheers, Phenylalanine (talk) 12:17, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. I revised the proposal accordingly to rule out any apparent conflict with WP:SYN. Your thoughts? --Phenylalanine (talk) 11:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me

Why did you close down the User:WebHamster COI section, I was in the middle of providing evidence. I would appreciate it if you would reverse your action and let the evidence continue to be presented. Bluescreenofdef (talk) 05:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

You made your 21st and 22nd edits without providing the evidence, and it would be a WP:MULTI violation anyway, because there is a pending mediation. THF (talk) 05:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Please provide evidence you have the authority to close down the WebHamster COI issue. Bluescreenofdef (talk) 05:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

The {{collapse}} template is available to all. Where WP:MULTI is being violated and it is disrupting a page, it is appropriate to shut down a fruitless discussion--COIN cannot do anything for you that the mediation won't. No, I'm not an admin: if I were, I'd have blocked both of you for ignoring warnings to disengage and resolve matters in the mediation instead of simply making a firm suggestion that you're hurting your argument by your disruption. I'm doing you a favor by shutting down the extraneous discussion before someone else blocks you for WP:HOUND. THF (talk) 05:33, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I've initiated a discussion for clarification of your position here. Bluescreenofdef (talk) 05:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

your assistance please...

Was it a mistake to start so many articles on attorneys associated with Guantanamo? I now think it was. And I have moved a bunch of them to my user space, where I will work on them, or cannibalize their references.

It is a lot of work properly responding to an {{afd}}. Is it possible you could hold off on further nominations until the {{afd}}s you have already made have run to completion?

If you hold off on further afd I will review all of the guantanamo attorney articles for which I am the sole author, and remove the bulk of them from article space, by the time these {{afd}} run to completion.

This will save the time of a lot of people who won't have to read the {{afd}}s on articles I can now see won't survive {{afd}}. Geo Swan (talk) 08:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it was. The whole Guantanamo project seems misguided: you could have had five or twenty featured articles, and instead you have hundreds and hundreds of stubs, most of which aren't notable, most of which aren't formatted correctly, most of which are outdated, and only one of which is up to Good Article standards (and I frankly doubt that Omar Khadr really meets GA, but I won't ask for a reassessment).

I'll hold off on further AFDs and tagging.

I do note that my complaint about 100 or so habeas articles remains valid; I've been focusing on the BLPs, since a bad BLP can be more problematic for the project. THF (talk) 08:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I've been going through them too. Geo Swan (talk) 23:29, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I asked a question about these {{afd}} on Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion -- here. Geo Swan (talk) 06:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

THF, regarding [5], I too would appreciate you opinion on whether Geo Swan should be allowed to userfy these articles, which seem to me to be "almost (but not quite) notable, but in future sources may be arise or be discovered that meet notability tests". Would your answer be different if the subjects were not living persons. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:09, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

So long as they weren't being used for mainspace disruption (as PJHaseldine tried to do with the one article userfied so far), I wouldn't bring MFDs. THF (talk) 09:12, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Geo Swan (talk) 09:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Energy law

Hi there. Since you are such a great attorney and scholar, can you please help find more cites for this article, so we can get it up to "good article" status? Thanks in advance. I'll get you a cuppa joe at Starbucks next time I'm in DC. Bearian (talk) 17:20, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

New sources

I don't know whether you are watching Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kuessner effect, but new sources are available. Cheers. --Edcolins (talk) 22:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Labor Portal

You are clearly an ethical editor and good lawyer. I'm curious if you find it at all interesting that the Labor Portal, which quotes Confessions of a Union Buster by Martin J. Levitt zillions of times in the Union Busting article and also John Logan yet there are no articles in Wikipedia about either of them? If they are important enough to provide exclusive sourcing for several articles, why aren't they notable enough for the Labor Portal to develop articles about them? Just curious what the criteria is to warrant an article developed by the Labor Portal.--66.92.37.113 (talk) 01:56, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Glad to see you

Good that you have returned. I suspect we have opposite political alignments, but your presence seems to be helpful. Jehochman ^Talk 05:14, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. THF (talk) 13:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East

I did read Killing of U.N. Aide by Israel Bares Rift With Relief Agency. Outside some fairy tales which even the anonymous source admitted were extracted by torture, I didn't see a reliable source. Erik Warmelink (talk) 14:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The New York Times is a reliable source, and the article doesn't even mention torture, so your claim to have read it is questionable. If your claim was that the source did not support the claim, you should have used the {{failed verification}} tag. THF (talk) 14:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, the New York Times tells us that Iain Hook "was shot in the back by an Israeli soldier ". Why did a member of the IDF shoot him? Erik Warmelink (talk) 22:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

If the UNRWA didn't promote terrorism, there would be fewer gun battles where innocents get accidentally shot in the heat of battle. I fail to see what this has to do with Wikipedia, and I don't have any desire to interact with you beyond what is necessary to collaboratively edit articles. THF (talk) 22:18, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Hello again,

My intent is to be open, friendly, and inviting of conversation with you. I thank you for your comment on the William P. Quigley article. How does this version work for you now ? I guess what I am seeking what is your vision of "Third Party Sources". Thanks, rkmlai (talk) 00:01, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

See WP:RS. The issue is one of independent third-party sources, i.e., newspaper articles and books discussing the man. THF (talk) 00:04, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, Thanks. I will look for some tomorrow. I appreciate your 'research guidance' collaboration suggestions. Peace, rkmlai (talk) 00:08, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Yvonne Bradley

Are you aware that the closing admin first closed the debate as a redirect (most likely to point readers in the right direction) and later deleted that redirect in defiance of his own closure before finally userfying the article history? - Mgm|^(talk) 09:11, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

That wasn't what happened. He made the redirect, then deleted the article and recreated the redirect within seconds, presumably because he saw that an editor had previously reverted the earlier redirect. Given what happened to the redirect after he made it, that clearly was the right sequence, since there would be edit-warring rather than DRV. THF (talk) 09:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Ill take another look. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:48, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Mauldin v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

Thanks for the nice PRODWarning template on my talk page, I appreciate it. I'm not the original author—I merely forked it off of what is now called Criticism of Wal-Mart—so I may hold a different opinion than the one who wrote the original work. Anyways, part of me wants to see the article get deleted because there is already way too much Wal-Mart cruft on here, and another part of me thinks it's ineligible for PROD and should be brought up on AFD instead because it's forked from a controversial article that has already been to AFD once or twice. I thought I would ask you for your opinion before I decided what to do. Tuxide (talk) 02:08, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

History of terrorism template

Hi, I see you are a fan of the template. You might want to comment here Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:History_of_Terrorism. Sean.hoyland - talk 07:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk to us?

Considering your refusal to discuss the issue after your revert two days ago of DGG and accusation of illigitimate canvassing, I've taken William Timmons back to his version, which is the one closer to "consensus" by any fair assessment. Dicklyon (talk) 15:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand how a failure to respond to a comment you wrote at 3 am in the morning before 11 am is a "refusal to discuss the issue." I don't have an RSS feed hooked up to my alarm clock. THF (talk) 11:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Hysterical Comment

THF: Off topic, but I have rarely seen truer words than those you wrote on the Cynamon AFD. No one reads these bar magazines. My MSBA (Maryland) magazine gets tossed upon receipt as well, together with everyone else who gets it in my office. Your take is also totally accurate. Solos who actually perform pro bono work never get recognition, it always goes to larger firms who covet judicial approval (which makes me sick) for their perceived community involvement (one case normally, where billing gets exagerated through the roof as a result of no one actually having to pay the bill). Thanks for the refreshing honesty, it made my evening.--Yachtsman1 (talk) 04:13, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Bradley Simon

Hello. I was wondering if you could offer me some advice. I have made some edits to Bradley Simon's article in an attempt to remove the tags from his page and to improve its content. For example, I linked to his article from a few other pages, so how can I get the orphan tag removed? Lakpr (talk) 13:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Mauldin v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

Reading a lot of this across the web. How much can this article be simplified without being degraded, so in order to meet understanding by readers who are not themselves attorneys? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 18:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Please explain.

Your edit (Reverted 1 edit by Abd; Use the talk-page; this botches the redirect.. using TW). How did it "botch" the redirect? It still worked, didn't it? I don't mind at all that you reverted, since my purpose was to get that notice into History. I didn't want to use Talk for several reasons, though they are now moot. --Abd (talk) 01:53, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

No, it didn't. The redirect doesn't work if there's any other text. THF (talk) 02:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I would have sworn I tried it. Goes to show about swearing. --Abd (talk) 03:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand (I do have two hands), see my lovely page, User:Abd/Sandbox. I think you may have made an incorrect assumption. --Abd (talk) 03:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh. Improvement in the Wikipedia software since 2007. Shows what I know. My bad: I've self-reverted. THF (talk) 03:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, the intention is appreciated. I'm not sure that it was ever different, the presence of a redirect at the top of the page should be enough. I'd actually prefer that the text be displayed. In order to see it, one would have to follow the "redirected from" link at the top. I often want to see pages that have been redirected, so I follow that link, then recover it from history. If these pages aren't indexed, this would be a way for someone to see detail on a topic where it's been merged, without having to go into History. There are lots of potential uses. But, in fact, the text isn't displayed. I'm guessing that you may have been thinking about what happens if there is text above the redirect, or maybe on the same line. That does break it. The redirect must be the first line of the page, or else the # is interpreted as a numbered entry.

On the other hand, maybe there really was a change. Nevertheless, your edit summary here said "my bad." No, an action intended to protect the project, even though involving some error, is never bad. Thanks. --Abd (talk) 18:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

If this poll doesn't work, I'm going to seek James T. Kirk and Star Trek infobox topic ban from ANI. Seems to be an ongoing problem. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Star Trek#Eyeballs. Cool Hand Luke 15:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I hate to be the one to officially squelch the mediation, but sometimes debates need to be short-circuited, and mediation wasn't going to be helpful, judging by the number of people recusing themselves rather than get harangued by Arcayne. It's unfair to hobbyist editors when dispute resolution is misused to reward the party willing to be the most persistent in his point of view. I'm facing a similar problem at William Timmons, where a single editor (who has been blocked twice for edit-warring on the article) got a third opinion, then a fourth opinion (mine), then wanted an RFC, and has now insisted on a second RFC because he refuses to compromise in the slightest over an exceedingly minor issue. THF (talk) 15:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

You two guys are my Wikipedia heroes. If you're ever in Pennsylvania, email me and I'll buy both of you a pint. Erikeltic (talk) 16:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

FYI, an editor apparently has some questions about consensus in Spock. I have put some notes to this in Kirk since that's where the most recent debate took place. Erikeltic (talk) 21:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:PUFF referenced in DRV

Unhide "Human Achievement Hour" in Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 March 25, and search on the phrase tail wagging the dog. One editor references Wikipedia:Wikipuffery, and another one states they appreciate the concept.

Of interest: the puffery in this case is considered to be the external blogs and self-published sources written by (or quoting) writers who are connected to the event—in a word, astroturf. The phrase tail wagging the dog (meaning astroturfing—number of pseudo-independent sources [6] [7] [8] were connected to a promoter for the HAH event) might be worth a mention in WP:WikiPuffery.

This is the first reference to WP:PUFF I've stumbled over where the essay is cited by someone who didn't participate in writing it. / edg ☺ ☭ 11:56, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

According to Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Wikipuffery, it's spreading pretty quickly -- see, e.g., Talk:Barney Frank, where it was taken seriously by multiple editors as a concept to be adhered to, without anyone complaining "but it's just an essay written by THF." As I said when I first wrote it, it's a useful concept that I was surprised no one had written an essay on. THF (talk) 15:21, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Marc Mysterio

Notable? I came across the article while listening to Daft Punk and checking out their article. Seems like there's some sourcing and notability issues with the article. Thoughts? ⇒SWATJester ^{Son of the Defender} 09:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Notwithstanding WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:MUSIC grants tertiary notability and beyond (a label is notable if it had a notable artist; an artist is notable if he had a notable label; bootstrapping is perfectly okay), and music articles seem to also have pretty loose standards for RS. Because of this consensus for exceptions to the general policy, I don't nominate music articles for deletion any more; this article would probably survive AfD because he has charted in Europe. I briefly dealt with this article because of COIN, and have since left it to others, and won't be offended if it's nominated. I will say that if Mysterio is adding too much Mysterio-related content to the Daft Punk article, that should be dealt with, as he's been warned about those kinds of edits. THF (talk) 13:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Nah, not going to nominate, it sounds like it's notable enough, just has other issues. Thanks for the heads up about the COIN entry. ⇒SWATJester ^{Son of the Defender} 11:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Please continue editing in the Gilad Atzmon article

unfortunately it completely devolved, but hopefully other editors will come back to make sure it stays NPOV. Drsmoo (talk) 15:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm taking a wikibreak from disputatious editing where possible. THF (talk) 18:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested edit tags

Hi I noticed you've added the {request edit} template to the talk pages of two articles (Talk:Millennium_Ecosystem_Assessment and Talk:Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks). This template is supposed to be used by editors who have a conflict of interest with the subject but I can't find any explanation of what your COI is. If you were just requesting a general edit could you remove the templates from the articles? Thanks Smartse (talk) 19:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh and on Talk:Wal-Mart (I think - it's hard searching the history, apologies if I'm wrong) - I've been reading the discussion but see no mention of any concrete COI issue or in particular a requested edit. I thought I'd check with you before removing the template. Smartse (talk) 20:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe I have a COI on Walmart, but my habit is to not contest a good-faith accusation of COI. On both the two other talk-pages, I think I make the COI issue clear: I refer explicitly to "my" testimony. THF (talk) 18:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Walmart GAR

Hi, just wanted to make sure you had noticed that Walmart has been nominated for a good article status review. Is work continuing to address the tags? I hope so, as it would be a shame for an article with so much work put into it to not be recognized, but I would have to !vote to delist is it is just going to sit there as is. If COI accusations are keeping you from contributing directly, plenty of editors would be glad to port anything (cited&NPOV etc) you have to offer from the talk page to the article. Thanks!YobMod 09:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

William Lerach

It's been a while since you edited the William Lerach bio. Anyway, I happened to visit it today, and also the Discussion page. I put a rebuttal in at the bottom of the Discussion page (somebody said the bio was "screaming of one-sidedness". Anyway, I added some background to what Lerach was actually doing, i.e. pocketing all the plaintiff's lead counsel fees at the expense of lawfirms that didn't bribe an in-house stable of bogus clients. Also the point that one of the reasons why the gov't went after Milberg Weiss so forcefully - because Milberg Weiss continued their felony conduct even after they knew the gov't was investigating them. I didn't put these two points in the actual bio but thought that you might be better able to word them since you are an attorney. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.131.246 (talk) 20:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I've written about Lerach and people get upset with me when I edit pages on subjects I've written about. THF (talk) 18:33, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Business Plot

A bit of excitement, as it turns out that one of the key props upon which much theorizing and agonizing argument stood has been knocked out. The final committee report has been long misquoted at the article to deleterious effect. Take a glance at the talk page when you have time. Capitalismojo (talk) 03:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Areas for Reform

Might benefit from your insights. Collect (talk) 15:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Millennium Ecosystem Assessment

Hello THF. I noticed your {{Request edit}} template at Talk:Millennium Ecosystem Assessment#Request edit. You recommended that an AEI document commenting on this group's report be included in the article. I see no reason not, but it makes more sense for you to compose some text to be included in the article. Adding a bare reference would not be very useful. If you want to propose some text to include, draft some up and include it on the Talk page, and ping me or anyone at WP:COIN if you want it considered for inclusion. EdJohnston (talk) 03:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Demographics of the Supreme Court of the United States FA-drive

Sorry for spamming you, but in light of the impending shift of the Demographics of the Supreme Court of the United States, I'd like to get this article up to FA status within the next few weeks, and ready for the front page by the time the Court starts its fall term. Any help or advice you can provide would be appreciated. Cheers! bd2412 T 01:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:Hornbook -- a new WP:Law task force for the J.D. curriculum

Hi THF,

I'm asking Wikipedians who are interested in United States legal articles to take a look at WP:Hornbook, the new "JD curriculum task force".

Our mission is to assimilate into Wikipedia all the insights of an American law school education, by reducing hornbooks to footnotes.

• Each casebook will have a subpage.

• Over the course of a semester, each subpage will shift its focus to track the unfolding curriculum(s) for classes using that casebook around the country.
• It will also feature an extensive, hyperlinked "index" or "outline" to that casebook, pointing to pages, headers, or {{anchors}} in Wikipedia (example).
• Individual law schools can freely adapt our casebook outlines to the idiosyncratic curriculum devised by each individual professor.

• I'm encouraging law students around the country to create local chapters of the club I'm starting at my own law school, "Student WP:Hornbook Editors". Using WP:Hornbook as our headquarters, we're hoping to create a study group so inclusive that nobody will dare not join.

What you can do now:

1. Add WP:Hornbook to your watchlist, {{User Hornbook}} to your userpage, and ~~~~ to Wikipedia:Hornbook/participants.

2. If you're a law student,

• Email http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Hornbook to your classmates, and tell them to do the same.
• Contact me directly via talk page or email about coordinating a chapter of "Student WP:Hornbook Editors" at your own school.

(You don't have to start the club, or even be involved in it; just help direct me to someone who might.)

3. Introduce yourself to me. Law editors on Wikipedia are a scarce commodity. Do knock on my talk page if there's an article you'd like help on.

Regards, Andrew Gradman ^talk/_WP:Hornbook 04:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Essay discussion

Just though you might want to know that some of the issues appearing in Wikipedia:Tagging pages for problems are currently being discussed in Wikipedia talk:Notability.--RDBury (talk) 12:22, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:advocacy articles

In its first draft, and I would greatly appeciate your input therein. Thanks! Collect (talk) 11:58, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

Wow, thank you very much! I really appreciate the Barnstar. It made me tear up. Bearian (talk) 18:14, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Gerald Posner

Hi THF. It is true that I'm involved in the Gerald Posner plagiarism case, insofar as I discovered most of the plagiarism. However, several thoughts. 1. The article currently references Posner's blog (in which he tries to rationalize/explain the plagiarism). Wouldn't this also be a violation of the "no blogs" policy? 2. Much of the beginning of the Posner page appears to just be PR (quotes lauding him) with little or no informational content. Basically, an advertisement. It's not clear to me that this serves a valid purpose in a resource such as Wikipedia. 3. Many of the instances of plagiarism, and the cases of quote tampering, documented in the Cannonfire blog article (which I cited) are documented nowhere else. In every such case, the primary sources (the Posner article and the source article) are fully specified, so these are not undocumented (or poorly documented) allegations.

Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eurytemora (talk • contribs) 03:47, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

1. It's okay to reference a blog published by the subject of the article for the subject's thoughts; in that case, it's more like a press release.
2. I haven't looked at the Posner article closely, but if there is hagiographic language that isn't well-sourced, discuss it on the talk-page, and you'll likely persuade other editors.
3. All I can suggest is that you get reliable sources to write about it. You've done a pretty good job of it so far. As a blogger who covered certain scams years ahead of the mainstream media, I empathize. THF (talk) 03:54, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the Liberty League info - interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eurytemora (talk • contribs) 04:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Bill Moyers

Talking about unco-operative editing, you're setting a fine example of that at Bill Moyers. The page has been carefully edited so far, despite some sources being a little shaky. But your deletions and unsourced additions, such as the comment about Guggenheim, goes well beyond being bold into the realm of tendentious. To avoid edit warring, please discuss changes on the talk page and reach consensus first. ► RATEL ◄ 03:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

The addition wasn't unsourced. Your reversions have remained undefended on the talk-page, despite my attempt to discuss there. THF (talk) 06:45, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I support most of the changes you've made to the Bill Moyers article, but I have to admit I'm having a hard time following the sheer number of changes in such a short period of time, especially with all the reversions made to your changes. Would you consider spacing them out over a longer period of time so that I can support them better? Thanks.--Drrll (talk) 10:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I cannot change an edit description but I take your point that the description implied you had not discussed the cahnges on the talk page which was incorrect but not my intention. The Four Deuces (talk) 15:23, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

SYNTH

Hi, THF-- no hurry, but as you have time, I'd like to follow up on your comment at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Scalabrineformvp#Comments by other users that "SandyGeorgia isn't always respectful of WP:SYN when trying to insert balance into the Venezuela-related articles". I try to be very respectful of SYNTH, but apparently you've observed examples where I miss; could you provide some so I can become aware? I try to avoid it by use of punctuation, separate paras for separate issues, etc., but apparently that's not doing it. For example, although JN is a good editor and the sentence is well constructed, this sentence from Mark Weisbrot:

• Weisbrot acted as a consultant to the governments concerned and has been described as the artífice intelectual, the intellectual architect, of the concept. He has been broadly sympathetic to Hugo Chávez, and acted as an advisor to Oliver Stone on South of the Border, a 2009 film about Chávez.

strikes me as synth-y because it runs together sources that are unrelated to the film or the Bank. I'd appreciate any illumination you can provide on what you describe as my lack of awareness of SYNTH. Best regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Blocked (2)

You have been temporarily blocked from editing for repeated abuse of editing privileges. Please stop. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below. - 2/0 (cont.) 20:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

For incivility, edit warring, and accusations of bad faith, I have blocked your account for 55 hours. Please keep in mind that this encyclopedia is a collaborative project. You have been making appropriate use of talkpages and content noticeboards, but sometimes it takes more than a few hours for a consensus to develop. Reverting to your preferred version and continuing to make tendentious edits during discussion is disruptive. Your reports to WP:WQA and WP:AN3 have very much the appearance of both forum shopping and abuse of process dispute measures to get your way in a content dispute. - 2/0 (cont.) 20:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Based on a discussion with User:2over0 and others on 2over0's Talk: page, I've unblocked you. Best of luck with future editing. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:10, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Prescott Bush's membership of the Liberty League

The source of Prescott Bush's membership is reporter Mike Thomson and journalist John Buchanan for BBC Radio 4 [9] Yes, I should have added the source in the article itself. --Tchoutoye (talk) 01:15, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Discredited conspiracy theorists are not a reliable source for a history article. It shouldn't have been added. THF (talk) 01:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Pehraps we should add all the members? A considerable task, but absent a reason for listing Bush, it seems the only proper course at that point <g>. Collect (talk) 01:47, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Using opinion pieces in BLPs

What do you think about submitting to the RSN or BLPN an entry asking about whether an opinion piece in a RS is valid for use in BLPs? I have run into several editors that claim that opinion pieces are invalid in a BLP. I realize that it gets into complications such as whether a source is entirely opinion or not and whether a specific piece is journalism, advocacy journalism, analysis, or straight opinion. If they aren't valid, then a slew of material needs to be removed from BLPs (such as the examples you have listed).--Drrll (talk) 18:27, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I've decided it's a poor use of my time to be involved in disputed BLP edits, because I have lost all faith that policies will be enforced even-handedly. The only answer you're going to get on RSN or BLPN is "It depends" and what it will depend upon is whether the opinion is politically correct, though other rationalizations may be used to get to that result. See the chart above: opinion journalism gets used all the time, so long as it's someone left-wing writing about someone right-wing. THF (talk) 19:14, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree that opinion journalism is used primarily against conservatives, as your chart illustrates. I am unwilling, though, to cede the battle over WP to the liberals, even though they currently have the advantage (especially among admins). I think we need all the center-right individuals we can find to help fight the liberal bias that pervades WP. Please reconsider your involvement in BLPs. Thanks.--Drrll (talk) 19:30, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Current discussion at WP:VPP. Good luck. THF (talk) 19:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

new user requires assistance

The IP appears to still have issues , I wanted to let you help him out first as he has multiple warnings on his talkpage and has reverted again, I thought you added and cited the same content ? Let me know what you want to do. Off2riorob (talk) 21:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

John Yoo in Charlottesville

I forgot to mention--if you make your trip to Charlottesville on March 19, John Yoo will be here to speak. He is coming to the Miller Center which is open the public (but get there early--this one will be packed) and then at UVa which is not technically open to the public but Mr. Jefferson's University tends to be democratic and open and welcoming to all, even those who neglected to register as students. I plan to go to the Miller Center forum and ask Professor Yoo politely whether he might write an account of the "War Council"--the coterie of five lawyers in the White House mentioned in Goldsmith's book who really were making all the decisions. THAT would be a secondary source worth reading. David Addington's antics alone . . . I'l leave the 'gotcha' questions to others, of which there will be plenty. Protests planned, etc.ElijahBosley (talk) 15:34, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's a group outing, so we'll need to go on a weekend to accommodate those unfortunates with 9-to-5 jobs. Yoo swings by to speak in DC once or twice a year at events where protestors wouldn't be interrupting, and I speak at Berkeley every once in a while, so I'm sure I'll have other chances to see him. THF (talk) 15:44, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Further to your inquiry: with friends I tried Taste of China. It's been discovered. A one hour wait, even at 6pm on a rainy Sunday. The place is very unprepossessing, in a dull suburban shopping mall, and the interior looks like every other cheap Chinese restaurant you've ever seen as per this local newspaper's picture. But the food was indeed exquisite. I especially liked a tangy crispy cilantro fish roll appetizer. I ordered duck, and here comes a gigantic dark mahogany roasted half duck swimming in a deep rich brown sauce. Save time afterwards for a trip to stroll our downtown pedestrian Mall for desert, gelato at Splendora's.ElijahBosley (talk) 16:33, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

In case you are still planning a visit to C'ville: as you know, the chef Mr. Chang leaves a restaurant the minute he is "discovered." He's done it again. Abruptly departed Taste of China, left them in the lurch. But a local rag has traced him to a new restaurant opening in the tiny Virginia town of Short Pump.ElijahBosley (talk) 12:02, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

		Happy holidays.
		Best wishes for joy and happiness. Hope this finds you well. Thought I should let you know that the elusive will 'o the wisp Chinese Chef Peter Chang materialized in Charlottesville again just long enough to start a new restaurant and train the staff, but the latest word is (we think) he is going to stay in Atlanta, as noted here. His movements can only be described as inscrutable. ElijahBosley (talk ☞) 16:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Charles G. Koch

Heh, we requested semi-protection for that page at the same time. ;-) Bonewah (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Global warming

Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, Global warming, is on article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.

The above is a templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you. -- TS 02:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Not that it really matters, but...

What is it that makes suddenacceleration.com an unreliable source?

J.M. Archer (talk) 18:19, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Plaintiff-lawyer spam site. Not remotely neutral, even aside from the spam issue. THF (talk) 18:21, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, tell you what... I don't care if you *remove* those links, because I only added them to comply with someone's demand that certain material be sourced. However--and this is the important part... Those links contain information from other reliable, third-party sources on the subject at hand, and I do expect you to look them up and add them as sources inline. I don't know why you're on this (misguided) spam crusade (as a review of WP:SPAM seems to suggest that those links don't count), but I'm not going to fight it as long as you put in a good faith effort to undo the damage you cause to the article. J.M. Archer (talk) 14:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to ask for a review at WP:RSN. They'll happily concur that this site violates Wikipedia policy. THF (talk) 15:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I'll take that as a "No" to any chance of you contributing better sources. So how's about you tell me what policies I need to watch out for? J.M. Archer (talk) 22:03, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Never mind; I found it. I've reviewed the policy page for sources and concluded that this falls under "self-published" and, therefore, the unsourced page that you deleted from the article definitely doesn't count as a reliable source on Wikipedia. I still take exception to having it called "SPAM" as, having read that policy, too, I think it's safe to say you're way off base in that case. Going forward, how 'bout you just try to be helpful? I realize that might be a departure, but you do no one any good by assuming I work for some law firm with a silly website. J.M. Archer (talk) 22:08, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Didn't accuse you of intentional wrongdoing; a good lawyer spam site will come up high on google results and look like a credible source of information. THF (talk) 22:40, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, I recommend tracking down the definitive 1989 NHTSA report on the subject. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be on the web. THF (talk) 22:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

It just bugged me because you called the link "spam" (according to Wikipedia policy)--not the site itself.

Anyway, like I said, most of the articles at that website are just taken from other (respectable) publications. However, if I remember right, the citation we're missing now served to establish the difference between the circa 1989 events (acceleration upon shifting from park) and the circa 2009 events (acceleration while cruising), which is something the NHTSA report can't do, and which none of the articles I've been reading seem to get explicit about.

Of course the mechanism is uncertain (are people just stomping the wrong pedal, or is the pedal stuck, or is the car possessed by the spirit of Dale Earnhardt?), but the circumstances are less controversial and definitely different in a lot of cases--otherwise, the whole "stuck pedal" theory wouldn't hold any water at all. Of course, not being an auto industry commentator, and not having a column in the Dallas Morning News with which to speak my mind, I'm going to need to find someone else to point that out.

If you happen to have seen any articles where that particularly mundane bit of information gets handed out, I'd appreciate a tip. >.>

J.M. Archer (talk) 14:17, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I think this is the original report: http://www.autosafety.org/sites/default/files/1989%20NHTSA%20SA%20Study%20Report%20&%20Appendices%20A-D(1).pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Archer884 (talk • contribs) 14:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

The newspaper op-ed I wrote (which someone's added to the Toyota recall article) noted that there were a handful of Toyota cases where there was a legitimate issue where a poorly- sized and/or attached floor mat could jam the pedal and prevent braking, though the overall evidence for most of the other cases was strong for driver error. I haven't looked at the wikipedia article closely, but it does cite a lot of sources. As Megan McArdle's fine work has demonstrated, the majority of Toyota SUA cases were not "while cruising," but while starting up from a stop, which is the scenario most associated with pedal misapplication. And a good chunk of the Audi sudden accelerations were while cruising. THF (talk) 20:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, apologies if you took offense at my edit summary. WP:SPAM seems to apply to many many different scenarios, unfortunately, so I could see how someone could take offense given the neighbors under that umbrella; until that page gets disaggregated, please just AAGF -- assume that I assumed good faith. (And, yes, the CAS PDF deep-link does appear to be the NHTSA report.) THF (talk) 20:49, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Forget about it. I'll be nice.

I'm guessing Toyota's theory is that there is, categorically, absolutely, unequivocally, nothing wrong. Unfortunately, such a "problem" is exceedingly difficult to "solve," so we have people lopping off parts of their pedals in order to feel better. Then there are those who, quite reasonably, point out that the most logical reason an engine would appear to race out of control is simply that said engine is being fed too much gas by the guy standing on the pedal. A reasonable position, but publicly indefensible (as the Audi case shows). Unfortunately, some subset of that demographic sets forth as their sole evidence the "fact" that braking and acceleration are unrelated parts of the car and, whether or not the engine is undergoing demonic possession, the brakes will be able to stop it if the driver can find the pedal.

That "fact" just ain't the case. I hate this demographic with passion, and it probably shows (to my detriment) in how I've dealt with work on the article. I really don't claim to know any more about why these things happen than anyone else--and I'm pretty sure that, most of the time, it's because somebody in the driver's seat goofed up. I just wanna be sure that the article itself is open to other possibilities because, the way the article is titled, it isn't really about any specific rash of incidents or media circus but rather the phenomenon--which, sometimes, does have a legitimate mechanical causes. (Although--and this may be significant to you, personally--I would expect that such causes are not commonly actionable as they probably represent a maintenance failure of some kind on the part of the owner and could be considered contributory negligence.)

Incidentally, when I checked last, pedal misapplication was one of the other concepts in the article was missing any viable source. Which probably means I'm going to have to actually read that ugly old PDF and find a good page number. :(

J.M. Archer (talk) 21:27, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism accusations

MY addition to the ADL page was not intended to be vandalism, how did you develop that perception? 99.232.219.131 (talk) 14:34, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

An IP recently blocked for vandalism who adds blatantly false and unsourced anti-Semitism to an article generally isn't given the benefit of the doubt. THF (talk) 14:54, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tapuah junction stabbing

This afd in which you participated is being discussed at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 March 12.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 00:02, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

just hit wrong button

i tried reporting it to Wikipedia:Edit_filter/False_positives when i couldn't revert it back to the original. was only trying to put a reply and comment/plus ask to remove username from subject as unimportant, etc. OldEnglishRoses (talk) 22:40, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of David Weigel

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is David Weigel. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Weigel. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Vandal misappropriating your user page info

Hi -- Another user, whose vandalism you undid on the wiki entry for "Judge A. Howard Matz" has misappropriated your User Page information -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CauseIsayso

I tried to remove it, but apparently doing so got me labeled a vandal.

Neutrabar (talk) 20:59, 27 April 2010 (UTC)neutrabar

Lerach

I don't know if you're still keeping an eye on the Lerach article; it has nearly doubled in size in the past few days from 68.107.77.236's edits. Could you cast a dispassionate eye on it? – Athaenara ✉ 06:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

It needs a rewrite. But it needed a rewrite before, also. I've been publicly critical of Lerach, so I'll get accused of COI if I take out the new hagiography. THF (talk) 09:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 18:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

COI

You really need to stay away from the Wolk article. COI couldn't be clearer on this, and it's beyond obvious that as a target of the subject's lawsuits you do indeed have a COI. Please note that you have been advised by an admin (Jehochman) to stay away -- this isn't just my opinion. I would request that you strike your recent comments on the AfD. Thank you, Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Please don't make false accusations. I haven't touched the Wolk article. This particular false accusation is especially disturbing given the possibility of off-wiki harassment. And then please read WP:COI, because this talk-page comment demonstrates that you don't understand that guideline, which I haven't come close to violating. There's nothing in the COI guideline prohibiting discussion on AFD pages by someone who has disclosed his conflict of interest. If you still think I've violated WP:COI after you've read it, please quote specific language from that guideline and provide a diff so we can have a reasoned discussion. THF (talk) 06:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

please do not force a block

Please see my edit to AN/I, [10] . If you continue the discussion in this manner anywhere in Wikipedia, I think the consensus is that it is disruptive, and I shall, regretfully, need to block you to put an end to it. (Obviously, I wouldn't block you over anything we disagreed about, but I'm a total outsider to this one.) Please--we are dealing with the matter raised, and anything further will just make the situation worse. I know you're involved in other active things also, and I don't want to do anything that would prevent your contributing elsewhere on Wikipedia. DGG ( talk ) 06:47, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I will comply with your request, and appreciate that you're just the messenger. Thank you for taking the time to defuse this.

But I have to point out that this is rather unfair: I didn't edit any mainspace where there was a conflict of interest and I made one November 4 edit in talkspace, which WP:COI explicitly permits, and then, after the warning, I made one edit in AFD space defending myself against an editor's false allegation that I violated WP:COI. Cirt's complaint was that I linked to an analogous AFD about a libel suit at an AFD about a libel suit, without any discussion of Wolk at all! (Please note that my position at both AFDs was consistent with both what Wolk's marketing representatives requested and with the position I have taken at AFDs about articles about legal cases for several years.) Then Cirt creates a false report of wrongdoing by adding diffs from edits I made before the warning (even though none of the editors who warned me [responded to my explanation] of why I thought I was complying with WP:COI, and that their accusation was incorrect). But there's an apparent consensus to apply an unwritten version of the guideline and threaten to block me for defending myself against unfair accusations that I violated the guideline.

I similarly don't see how it's violating WP:NLT to point out that a third party made a legal threat, especially when the editor whose for-profit marketing organization actually made the legal threat against everyone at Wikipedia has suffered no consequences for that legal threat.

Experience has taught me there's no point in complaining or asking that the rules be applied as written when Wikipedia editors decide to apply double-standards against me or my edits, and a notable case I'm working on blew up this weekend that prevents me from playing the game of posting defenses of myself in the twenty places where Cirt canvassed against me on an unrelated dispute in retaliation for pointing out his policy violations, so I really have no choice but to comply. (Speaking of that case, heaven forfend that the article about me comply with WP:UNDUE and talk about the dozen-plus articles in the last year that discuss my career and my public-interest litigation instead of my movie reviews; for someone who is constantly being accused of bad-faith violations of WP:COI and self promotion, I've somehow avoided correcting all the inaccuracies in the article about me.)

But I complain anyway, because I'm really annoyed: the WP:COI guideline either needs to be rewritten to conform to what people think it says (so I know what to do before these disputes blow up), or editors need to suffer some consequences for harassment when they falsely accuse people of violating WP:COI. This is like the fifth time that I've had an editing dispute, and the other editor responds by falsely accusing me of violating COI on an unrelated topic, and then I have to waste hours of my time defending myself. It's why my editing of Wikipedia has dropped over 90%. THF (talk) 14:54, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll take this as you final summary statement. Please, nothing further. DGG ( talk ) 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

COI clarification needed

Were you first sued by Wolk because of your editing of Wikipedia about him, or were you first sued because you wrote about him somewhere else? Tijfo098 (talk) 07:33, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if I'm allowed to answer this, given the DGG message immediately above this. I apologize: I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't know what the constraints are of the block warning, and it's apparently futile to just simply comply with what the WP:COI guidelines say I should do, because I already did that and am being threatened with a block for it. I don't even know if I'm allowed to refer you to the commonly used search engine where you can find the answer. THF (talk) 14:54, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I think your response above detailing your level of involvement in the Wolk article is sufficient by itself, because I found [11]. Thanks, Tijfo098 (talk) 16:13, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Tijfo098, your question above and your follow up to it seems to be highly provocative, especially since you should have been able to see that THF could not reply. I would like to believe that it was just thoughtless, not specifically indented to bait THF into continuing. I am warning you that if you do something like this again, I shall bock you also. THF, if he should post here, please don't reply. DGG ( talk ) 18:53, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Notes to those visiting this page

1. Any user is free to delete any warnings from their own talk page. Deleting warnings is an indication that they have been seen, so we very much allow it.
2. If any user asks you to stop posting to their talk page, you ought to respect their wishes. If you absolutely must communicate, please ask a neutral, experienced user for advice before posting here. Jehochman ^Talk 03:55, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Attacks on You and Other Stuff

Sorry you're having so much trouble, including COI beefs, which I've noticed. FWIW some of your suggestions and comments in the Charles Koch discussion have merit. Don't let others derail discussions into you and your RL. -Digiphi (Talk) 18:38, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

attribution

hello. as you can see here i didn't attribute this to O'Reilly. I figure if it is a RS then attribution isn't needed. I think you think I was being biased by not writing "Jane Mayer writes that Brian Doherty writes" which I just thought would be clunky. -Shootbamboo (talk) 22:56, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The BLP Barnstar
		For services rendered to BLP and NPOV policy in Werner Erhard vs. Columbia Broadcasting System. JN466 20:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

for taking a look at the article on Cooper. Another law-related article I've been working on recently is the Scott Sisters. I've nominated it for DYK, and would appreciate if you had a chance to look it over. Thanks, CordeliaNaismith (talk) 15:59, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Koch

It's interesting to see you making minor changes to the article in reaction to a clean-up, but despite claiming that there are POV and UNDUE issues, you have made no attempt to fix them. This is consistent with the notion that you do not intend to fix them, but instead wish to maintain these tags as badges of shame. I strongly suggest that you nip this crazy idea in the bud by fixing the NPOV/UNDUE parts yourself and removing the tags. Dylan Flaherty 22:15, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

This is the seventh time I've told you to stop harassing me on my talk page. It's even listed on your talk-page by your own edit, so I know this latest personal attack of accusing me of bad faith calling me "crazy" is in especially bad faith.

You and Abductive have reverted every edit I've made to fix the NPOV-UNDUE problem, even minor ones. So all I can do is note the problem on the talk page and wait for you to keep shooting yourself in the foot, because I have no interest in the WP:BATTLE that you're so fond of. THF (talk) 22:35, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's not actually true, but even if it was, then you should simply list these required edits on the talk page, perhaps with links. At this point, a number of us are having great difficulty determining what exactly would make you happy to remove the tags. It's up to you to communicate your needs; we can't read your mind. Dylan Flaherty 22:41, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

This is an eighth request for you to stop harassing me. I gave you your list, and you did nothing about it except WP:CANVAS to remove the tags. You have demonstrated your bad faith. You already whined about this at WP:ANI, and everyone there said that your drive-by tagging allegation was frivolous. THF (talk) 17:18, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Note that "whine" is uncivil. Dylan Flaherty 02:23, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Nowhere near as uncivil as your false accusations about me and your WP:IDHT. And your disregard of what is now my ninth request for you to stop harassing me. THF (talk) 03:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

professional objector

Thanks. I am not planning to try to save this article. I jumped in because I believe I have witnessed a few cases in my short time here of people Wikilawyering to defend various living persons against the disclosure of accurate, reliably sourced info, and this looked like it might be such a case. In itself, its not high on my radar screen; I spend most of my time these days editing articles like Liturgy (ancient Greece), where nobody gets worked up if we report that Pericles established the practice of the "misthos" in ordere to kneecap his more munificent rival, Cimon (still has to be reliably sourced, of course) ;-) Jonathanwallace (talk) 03:07, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

We sympathize on that account, but, as I stated, that isn't what happened here, given the cherry-picking proclivities of the SPA author. If I were wiser, I'd focus on articles like that that have little risk of sock-puppet supporters of Ephialtes POV-pushing. But maybe there are Spartans out there whose tempers still flare over the Peloponnesian War. THF (talk) 03:19, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Template:Autobiography

Thanks for your attention to the Alex Konanykhin BLP. One technical issue: the change you made to Template:Autobiography is valid for the article in question. However the template is used on many other articles, where the change may or may not be valid. Perhaps some type of switch in the template code would be required? Thanks     Eclipsed   (talk)   (code of ethics)     14:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I was going to create a new "Confirmed autobiography" template, but the notes for the existing {{Autobiography}} state that it is only to be used when the relationship is confirmed. So any article where the template is now inaccurate is an article where the template should not have been used in the first place. THF (talk) 14:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Makes sense. Now that the template text and template documentation are in sync, it will be easier to assess the situation. Thanks.     Eclipsed   (talk)   (code of ethics)     14:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Alexandra Powers

Would you mind cleaning up the Alexandra Powers article. I added a reference and messed up. Thanks! Neptunekh2 (talk) 05:31, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I cleaned up a problem he had with the references and deleted a sentence on the actress' Scientology affiliation because sourced to the website you told him not to use on the BLP noticeboard. Jonathanwallace (talk) 06:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject United States

Hello, THF! WikiProject United States, an outreach effort supporting development of United States related articles in Wikipedia, has recently been restarted after a long period of inactivity. As a user who has shown an interest in United States related topics we wanted to invite you to join us in developing content relating to the United States. If you are interested please add your Username and area of interest to the members page here. Thank you!!!

--Kumioko (talk) 20:45, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

WikiXDC: Wikipedia 10th Birthday!

National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)

You are invited to WikiXDC, a special meetup event and celebration on Saturday, January 22 hosted by the National Archives and Records Administration in downtown Washington, D.C.

• Date: January 22, 2011 (tentatively 9:30 AM - 5 PM)
• Location: National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), downtown building, Pennsylvania Avenue & 7th St NW.
• Description: There will be a behind-the-scenes tour of the National Archives and you will learn more about what NARA does. We will also have a mini-film screening featuring FedFlix videos along with a special message from Jimmy Wales. In the afternoon, there will be lightning talks by Wikimedians (signup to speak), wiki-trivia, and cupcakes to celebrate!
• Details & RSVP: Details about the event are on our Washington, DC tenwiki page.

Please RSVP soon as possible, as there likely will be a cap on number of attendees that NARA can accommodate.

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Note: You can unsubscribe from DC meetup notices by removing your name at Wikipedia:Meetup/DC/Invite/List. BrownBot (talk) 02:09, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

The_Seventh_Coin

Could you do me a favor? Could you help me write a summary for movie The_Seventh_Coin? Here's a summary from this site: http://www.movieguide.org/reviews/movie/the-seventh-coin.html but I was wondering how to write in my own words. Can you help me? Thanks! Neptunekh2 (talk) 02:19, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Flagging a new Koch page with real NPOV issues

Just wanted to put Political activities of the Koch family on your radar. Looking it over now. MBMadmirer (talk) 14:57, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikimania 2012 bid, DC chapter & next meetup!

1. At WikiXDC in January, User:Harej proposed that DC submit a bid to host Wikimania 2012. A bid and organizing committee is being formed and seeks additional volunteers to help. Please look at our bid page and sign up if you want to help out. You can also signup for the bid team's email list.
2. To support the Wikimania bid, more events like WikiXDC, and outreach activities like collaborations with the Smithsonian (ongoing) and National Archives, there also has been discussion of forming Wikimedia DC, as an official Wikimedia chapter. You can express interest and contribute to chapter discussions on the Wikimedia DC Meta-Wiki pages.
3. To discuss all this and meet up with special guest, Dutch Wikipedian User:Kim Bruning, there will be a meetup, Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 16 this Tuesday at 7pm, at Capitol City Brewery, Metro Center. There will be a pre-meetup Wikimania team meeting at 6pm at the same location.

Apologies for the short notice for this meetup, but let's discuss when, where & what for DC Meetup #17. Also, if you haven't yet, please join wikimedia-dc mailing list to stay informed. Cheers, User:Aude (talk)

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Hill & Knowlton

Would appreciate it if you could help get some of the factual information accurate on the Hill & Knowlton page for which I have a COI. Have added to the relevant discussion. Thanks. Niall Cook (Hill & Knowlton) (talk) 10:07, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Edward Mermelstein

I have renominated this article for deletion. In the previous discussion, you voted Keep and I am asking you to reconsider your vote, for reasons appearing in the discussion. I will be glad to hear your input. Regards, --Ravpapa (talk) 11:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Invite

Please accept this invite to join the Conservatism WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to conservatism broadly construed. Lionel (talk) 01:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I've got a bad feeling about this. Cool Hand Luke 03:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

John MacLennan Buchanan listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect John MacLennan Buchanan. Since you had some involvement with the John MacLennan Buchanan redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). This is an attempt to properly disambiguate articles involving persons named John Buchanan. MTS Peanut (talk) 07:18, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Good times

You crossed my mind today. I recently read your wiki article and I was glad to see the strides you are making - impressive! --David Shankbone 03:06, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting

DC Meetup 23 & Annual Membership Meeting

Wikimedia District of Columbia, the newest officially recognized chapter, is holding its Annual Membership Meeting at 1pm on Saturday, October 1, 2011 at the Tenley-Friendship Neighborhood Library. Agenda items include: election of the Board of Directors for the next two years approval of a budget for the 2011-2012 fiscal year report on the activities and accomplishments of the past year social gathering afterwards at a nearby restaurant Candidate nominations are open until 11:59pm EDT on Saturday, September 24. We encourage you to consider being a candidate. (see see candidate instructions) The meeting is open to both the general public and members from within the DC-MD-VA-WV-DE region and beyond. We encourage everyone to attend! You may join the chapter at the meeting or online.

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DC-area Meetup, Saturday, October 8

National Archives Backstage Pass - Who should come? You should. Really.
	You are invited to the National Archives in College Park for a special backstage pass and scanathon meetup with Archivist of the United States David Ferriero, on Saturday, October 8. Go behind the scenes and into the stacks at the National Archives, help digitize documents, and edit together! Free catered lunch provided! Dominic·t 16:34, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

You're invited! Wikipedia Loves Libraries DC

Wikipedia Loves Libraries DC & edit-a-thon
Wikipedia Loves Libraries comes to DC on Saturday, November 5th, from 1-5pm, at the Martin Luther King Jr Memorial Library. We will be holding an edit-a-thon, working together to improve Wikipedia content related to DC history, arts, civil rights, or whatever suits your interests. There may also be opportunities to help with scanning historic photos plus some swag! You're invited and we hope to see you there!
RSVP + more details!

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Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & DC Meetup 26!

Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & Meetup - Who should come? You should. Really.

FINE ART EDIT-A-THON & DC MEETUP 26 is December 17! The Edit-a-Thon will cover fine art subjects from the Federal Art Project and the meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving GLAM professionals. You don't have to attend both to attend one (but we hope you do!) Click the link above and sign up & spread the word! See you there! SarahStierch (talk) 19:44, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

National Archives ExtravaSCANza

You are invited to the National Archives ExtravaSCANza, taking place every day next week from January 4–7, Wednesday to Saturday, in College Park, Maryland (Washington, DC metro area). Come help me cap off my stint as Wikipedian in Residence at the National Archives with one last success! This will be a casual working event in which Wikipedians are getting together to scan interesting documents at the National Archives related to a different theme each day—currently: spaceflight, women's suffrage, Chile, and battleships—for use on Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons. The event is being held on multiple days, and in the evenings and weekend, so that as many locals and out-of-towners from nearby regions1 as possible can come. Please join us! Dominic·t 01:40, 30 December 2011 (UTC) 1 Wikipedians from DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, and Pittsburgh have been invited.

You're invited: Smithsonian Institution Women in Science Edit-a-Thon!

Who should come? You should. Really.
	She Blinded Me with Science: Smithsonian Women in Science Edit-a-Thon will be held on Friday, March 30, 2012 at the Smithsonian Archives in Washington, D.C. This edit-a-thon will focus on improving and writing Wikipedia content about women from the Smithsonian who contributed to the sciences. It will be followed by a happy hour meetup! We look forward to seeing you there!

Sarah (talk) 00:15, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello THF. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click HERE to participate. Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 23:52, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC Meetup & Dinner

Please join us for a Wikimedia DC Meetup & Dinner on Saturday, May 5. This will be a great opportunity to meet other Wikimedians from the DC area, discuss upcoming Wikimedia DC activities and events, and have fun over dinner and drinks. All ages are welcome! Kirill [talk] 04:11, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

You're invited: Smithsonian Institution Archives Edit-a-thon!

Please join us for the second Smithsonian Institution Archives Edit-a-thon! This event will focus on Smithsonian history including the history of the Institution's museums, archives, research centers and the people behind them. This will be a great opportunity to learn about the Archives, work within them & with staff, and learn more about the world's largest museum complex. We hope you'll join us on Friday, May 25. Please sign up here! Sarah (talk) 21:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC) Note: You received this message because you were listed here. If you no longer wish to receive messages of this nature, please remove yourself from that list.

Nomination of An Inconvenient Truth...Or Convenient Fiction? for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article An Inconvenient Truth...Or Convenient Fiction? is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/An Inconvenient Truth...Or Convenient Fiction? until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Sorry the discussion has been going on so long without you being notified. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 04:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Hill & Knowlton

Hi THF,

I came across the Hill & Knowlton discussion in AfC patrols, because their employee tried to offer a revised version through AfC. As you probably know, AfC only deals with new articles. I find that the article does have POV issues, but it appears several problems have prevented any meaningful improvement.

As a frequent COI contributor with a PR background and a disclosed real-life identity, I'm going to pass on making heavy POV edits, but I wanted to make the following observations, which are in order top-to-bottom:

• Citation #2 is an ambiguous broken link. Suggest a tag to encourage editors to verify the information
• Since the Center for Media and Democracy has an overt liberal slant with the tagline "reporting on spin and disinformation since 1993," I am unsure it passes WP:RS for such a strong POV quote per the policy on sources with an extreme point of view.
• Suggest replacing "almost entirely" with a less dramatic "mostly"
• Based on the the source, it seems like the section on Nurse Nayirah is misleading and overly confident in its assessment. It would be more accurate to say that Amnesty International originally supported her testimony, but Amnesty and other human rights groups later withdrew their support. Additionally, the public was told her identity was concealed to protect her family, when it was later discovered she was the daughter of the Kuwait ambassador to the US. Their defense is that her testimony is still valid, while the other viewpoint is the public obviously sees her testimony in a more critical light seeing her political affiliation. I've already formed my opinion based on the facts, but we should let the reader do the same. Additionally, citation #7 citing the "enormous emotional impact" is an op-ed, which can only be used to establish the POV of the author, not for statements of fact.
• I would like to take the "distorted" claim out of quotes

Just my quick run-through. On the other end of things, I'm not sure I see the value in the uncited statement regarding Trade Association Membership, unless we can put that in some kind of notable context. I'll cross-post this note on the H&K talk page. User:King4057 04:20, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

You're invited to Masterpiece Museum Edit-a-Thon!

"Masterpiece Museum" Edit-a-Thon at the Smithsonian American Art Museum

The Smithsonian American Art Museum and Wikimedia DC present the "Masterpiece Museum" Edit-a-Thon. Drawing from their vast vaults of art, the caretakers of the Smithsonian American Art Museum have meticulously drawn forth canvas jewels to import into Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia articles. The museum directors and staff are excited about this project, and would love to have experienced Wikimedians help in the effort! Kirill [talk] 18:08, 29 July 2012 (UTC) When August 10, 2012, 10 AM - 4 PM Where Smithsonian American Art Museum, 7th & F St NW, Washington, DC Signup Details & signup

Jim Treacher

As a contributor to this article, you may be interested to know I have nominated it for deletion. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim Treacher. Robofish (talk) 01:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Backstage at the Smithsonian Libraries

Backstage at the Smithsonian Libraries is part of Wikipedia Loves Libraries 2012, the second annual continent-wide campaign to bring Wikipedia and libraries together with on-site events. Running this fall through October and November, libraries (and archives) will open their doors to help build a lasting relationship with their local Wikipedian community.

Organized by Wikimedia DC, this event will take place on October 12, 2012, and will include new editor training, a "backstage pass" tour of the National Museum of Natural History, and an edit-a-thon. Everyone is welcome to attend!

Kirill ^[talk] 18:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

DC Meetup #33

December 10 is Ada Lovelace's birthday! Not only was she the world's first computer programmer, but also the world's first female open source developer! Come celebrate with Wikimedia District of Columbia at Busboys & Poets for an informal get together!

The Washington, DC event will be held on Monday, December 10, 2012 at Busboys & Poets on 5th St NW & K St NW near Mt Vernon Square. The area is easily accessible by the Red Line Chinatown stop and the Yellow Line and Green Line Mt Vernon Square stop, as well as by WMATA buses.

Kirill ^[talk] 14:08, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC Holiday Party and Wiki Loves Monuments Exhibition

Please join Wikimedia DC and four other local media nonprofits—the National Press Club's Young Members Committee, 100Reporters, IRE and the Fund for Investigative Journalism—in winding down another year with a night of well-mannered frivolity.

The festivities will take place on Friday evening from 6:30 PM to 9:00 PM in the Zenger Room on the 13th Floor of the National Press Club, located on 529 14th Street NW, near Metro Center. There will be meat and vegetarian appetizers as well as a cash bar with specially reduced drink prices all night long. In addition, we will be exhibiting the finalists of the Wiki Loves Monuments photo contest at the event.

Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 04:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

inre waaaay old news

Thirty-five months ago you commented on a poorly sourced article on Jami Floyd at AFD. While I am in full agreement that the deleted version contained only one deadlink as a source and her awards were not explained, expanded, nor themselves sourced... I felt back then that issues were addressable under WP:ANYBIO and WP:ENT. Sorry to say, and still feeling the issues were addressable, it took me until now to actually get to improving it (with help). I'd much appreciate your looking at User:MichaelQSchmidt/sandbox/Jami Floyd to see if your concerns from 3 years ago have finally been addressed to the point where we have something to serve the project and its readers. Thanks, Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 23:03, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Deletion review for Jami Floyd

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Jami Floyd. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:30, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

DC happy hour on Thursday, February 28!

Please join Wikimedia DC for Happy Hour at the Capitol City Brewery at Metro Center on Thursday, February 28 at 6 p.m. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, see Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 34. Hope to see you there! Harej (talk) 02:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to a discussion: Wikipedia and legislative data

Hi THF, since you are interested in meetups in DC, I'd like to invite you to attend the Cato Institute's "Wikipedia and Legislative Data" events on March 14. (There's also an all day workshop on March 15; let me know if you are interested, we may be able to add more people.)

There will be an introduction to Wikipedia and open edit-a-thon in the afternoon, and a Sunshine Week Reception in the evening. I hope you can make it!

• Please sign up here
• Announcement on Cato's blog
• Background from Cato sponsor Jim Harper's perspective
• Background from Wikipedian Pete Forsyth's perspective

Hope to see you there! -Pete (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, March 9!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Guapo's at Tenleytown-AU on Saturday, March 9 at 5 PM All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 35. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 13:53, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

You are invited to a Women in the Arts Meetup & Edit-a-thon on Friday, March 29

In honor of Women's History Month, the Smithsonian and the National Museum of Women in the Arts are teaming up to organize a Women in the Arts Meetup & Edit-a-thon on Friday, March 29, 2013 from 10:00am - 5:00pm. The event is focused on encouraging women editors while improving Wikipedia entries about women artists and art world figures. This event is free of charge, but participation is limited to 20 volunteers, so RSVP today! Sarasays (talk) 23:09, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, April 13!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, April 13 at 5:30 PM All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 36. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 18:58, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

You are invited to the "All Things GW" editathon on Saturday, April 20

The "All Things GW" editathon on Saturday, April 20, 2013 from 12:30 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. is a rare chance to go behind the scenes in the University Archives of the GW Libraries and use their unique resources to research and update Wikipedia pages related to The George Washington University and the Foggy Bottom neighborhood. Did you miss our last D.C. history editathon? This is your is your chance to come edit with wiki-friends using different great collection! The event includes a behind-the-scenes tour of the University Archives and a show-and-tell of some of its most interesting treasures, snacks, and the editathon.

Participation is limited to 30 volunteers, so RSVP today! Dominic·t 07:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

DC meetups on April 19 and 20

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for two exciting events this weekend:

On the evening of Friday, April 19, we're hosting our first-ever WikiSalon at our K Street office. The WikiSalon will be a twice-monthly informal meetup and collaborative editing event to help build the community of Wikimedia enthusiasts here in DC; please join us for its inaugural session. Light refreshments will be provided.

On Saturday, April 20, we've partnered with the George Washington University to host the All Things GW Edit-a-Thon at the Teamsters Labor History Research Center. Please join us for behind-the-scenes tours of the University Archives and help edit articles about GWU history.

We look forward to seeing you at one or both of these events! Kirill ^[talk] 20:03, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, May 11!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, May 11 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 23:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

DC WikiSalon on May 24

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of May 24 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 18:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Webinar / edit-a-thon at the National Library of Medicine (NLM)

Join us at the NLM next week, either in person or online, to learn about NLM resources, hear some great speakers, and do some editing!

organized by Wiki Project Med

On Tuesday, 28 May there will be a community Wikipedia meeting at the United States National Library of Medicine in Bethesda, Maryland - with a second on Thursday, 30 May for those who can't make it on Tuesday. You can participate either in-person, or via an online webinar. If you attend in person, USB sticks (but not external drives) are ok to use.

Please go to the event page to get more information, including a detailed program schedule.

If you are interested in participating, please register by sending an email to pmhmeet@gmail.com. Please indicate if you are coming in person or if you will be joining us via the webinar. After registering, you will receive additional information about how to get to our campus (if coming in-person) and details about how to join the webinar. Klortho (talk) 00:43, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

DC WikiSalon on June 6

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of Thursday, June 6 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 11:48, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Have time on Saturday?

I'm sorry for the last-minute notice, but on Saturday, June 8, from 3 to 6 PM, Wikimedia DC and the Cato Institute are hosting a Legislative Data Meetup. We will discuss the work done so far by WikiProject U.S. Federal Government Legislative Data to put data from Congress onto Wikipedia, as well as what more needs to be done. If you have ideas you'd like to contribute, or if you're just curious and feel like meeting up with other Wikipedians, you are welcome to come! Be sure to RSVP here if you're interested.

I hope to see you there!

(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for D.C.-area events by removing your name from this list.)

Harej (talk) 04:20, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, June 15!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, June 15 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 19:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Join us this Sunday for the Great American Wiknic!

	Great American Wiknic DC at Meridian Hill Park
	You are invited to the Great American Wiknic DC at the James Buchanan Memorial at Meridian Hill Park. We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the potluck! :)

Boilerplate message generously borrowed from Wikimedia NYC. To unsubscribe from future DC area event notifications, remove your name from this list.

Harej (talk) 15:45, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Nonfiction

Template:Nonfiction has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:42, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, July 13!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, July 13 at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 00:25, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

You're Invited: Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon at the Smithsonian

File:SAAM facade.jpg American Art Museum

Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon at the Smithsonian American Art Museum You're invited to the Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon, part of a series of edit-a-thons organized by the Smithsonian American Art Museum to add and expand articles about American art and artists on Wikipedia. This event will include a catered lunch and special tours of the Luce Foundation Center for American Art and the Lunder Conservation Center at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. 9:15 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. on Friday, July 19, 2013 Smithsonian American Art Museum Meet at G Street Lobby (9th St. & G St. NW, Washington, D.C.) Capacity is limited, so please sign up today! If you would not like to receive future messages about meetups, please remove your name from our distribution list. Message delivered by Dominic·t 03:13, 12 July 2013 (UTC).

Luce Foundation Center

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, August 24!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, August 24 at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 04:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you free on Wednesday? Join us at the Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of Wednesday, August 24 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 11:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Meet up with local Wikipedians on September 14!

Are you free on Saturday, September 14? If so, please join Wikimedia DC and local Wikipedians for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages are welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please visit the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 18:58, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you free next Thursday? Join us at the Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next WikiSalon, which will be held from 7 to 9 PM on Thursday, September 5 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon is an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 14:56, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

I enjoy your contributions

Take my wife. Please. Blondesareeasy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Are you free next Thursday? Join us at the Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next WikiSalon, which will be held from 7 to 9 PM on Thursday, September 26 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon is an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 05:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Are you free on Sunday? Join us for a special Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for a special WikiSalon at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Library's Digital Commons Center. We will gather at 3 PM on Sunday, October 13, 2013 to discuss an important topic: what can Wikipedia and the DC area do to help each other? We hope to hear your thoughts and suggestions; if you have an idea you would like to pursue, please let us know and we will help!

Following the WikiSalon, we will be having dinner at a nearby restaurant, Ella's Wood Fired Pizza.

If you're interested in attending, please sign up at the event page. We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 02:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Meetups coming up in DC!

Hey!

You are invited to two upcoming events in DC:

• Meetup at Capitol City Brewery on Saturday, January 25 at 6 PM. Please join us for dinner, drinks, socializing, and discussing Wikimedia DC activities and events. All are welcome! RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.
• Art and Feminism Edit-a-Thon on Saturday, February 1 from Noon – 5 PM. Join us as we improve articles on notable women in history! All are welcome, regardless of age or level of editing experience. RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.

I hope to see you there!

(Note: If you do not wish to receive talk page messages for DC meetups, you are welcome to remove your username from this page.)

Harej (talk) 00:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Coming up in February!

Hello there!

Our February WikiSalon is coming up on Sunday, February 23. Join us at our gathering of Wikipedia enthusiasts at the Kogod Courtyard of the National Portrait Gallery with an optional dinner after. As usual, all are welcome. Care to join us?

Also, if you are available, there is an American Art Edit-a-thon being held at the Smithsonian American Art Museum with Professor Andrew Lih's COMM-535 class at American University on Tuesday, February 11 from 2 to 5 PM. Please RSVP on the linked page if you are interested.

If you have any ideas or preferences for meetups, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Meetup/DC.

Thank you, and hope to see you at our upcoming events! Harej (talk) 18:42, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

DC Meetups in March

Happy March!

Though we have a massive snowstorm coming up, spring is just around the corner! Personally, I am looking forward to warmer weather.

Wikimedia DC is looking forward to a spring full of cool and exciting activities. In March, we have coming up:

• Evening WikiSalon on Wednesday, March 12 from 7 PM – 9 PM. Meet up with Wikipedians for coffee at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle! If you cannot make it in the evening, join us at our...
• March Meetup on Sunday, March 23 from 3 PM – 6 PM. Our monthly weekend meetup, same place as last month. Meet really cool and interesting people!
• Women in the Arts 2014 meetup and edit-a-thon on Sunday, March 30 from 10 AM – 5 PM. Our second annual Women in the Arts edit-a-thon, held at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Free lunch will be served!

We hope to see you at our upcoming events! If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page.

— Harej (talk) 05:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

An exciting month of wiki events!

Hello there,

I am pleased to say that April will be a very exciting month for Wikipedia in Washington, DC. We have a lot of different events coming up, so you will have a lot to choose from.

First, a reminder that our second annual Women in the Arts Edit-a-Thon will take place on Sunday, March 30 at the National Museum of Women in the Arts.

Coming up in April, we have our first-ever Open Government WikiHack with the Sunlight Foundation on April 5–6! We are working together to use open government data to improve the Wikimedia projects, and we would love your help. All are welcome, regardless of coding or editing experience. We will also be having a happy hour the day before, with refreshments courtesy of the Sunlight Foundation.

On Friday, April 11 we are having our first edit-a-thon ever with the Library of Congress. The Africa Collection Edit-a-Thon will focus on the Library's African and Middle East Reading Room. It'll be early in the morning, but it's especially worth it if you're interested in improving Wikipedia's coverage of African topics.

The following day, we are having our second annual Wiki Loves Capitol Hill training. We will discuss policy issues relevant to Wikimedia and plan for our day of outreach to Congressional staffers that will take place during the following week.

There are other meetups in the works, so be sure to check our meetup page with the latest. I hope to see you at some of these events!

All the best,
James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 01:29, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Two edit-a-thons coming up!

Hello there!

I'm pleased to tell you about two upcoming edit-a-thons:

• This Tuesday, April 29, from 2:30 to 5:30 PM, we have the Freer and Sackler edit-a-thon. (Sorry for the short notice!)
• On Saturday, May 10 we have the Wikipedia APA edit-a-thon, in partnership with the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center, from 10 AM to 5 PM.

We have more stuff coming up in May and June, so make sure to keep a watch on the DC meetup page. As always, if you have any recommendations or requests, please leave a note on the talk page.

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 20:39, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Meet up with us

Happy May!

There are a few meetups in DC this month, including an edit-a-thon later this month. Check it out:

• On Thursday, May 15 come to our evening WikiSalon at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle. If you're available Thursday evening, feel free to join us!
• Or if you prefer a Saturday night dinner gathering, we also have our May Meetup at Capitol City Brewing Company. (Beer! Non-beer things too!)
• You are also invited to the Federal Register edit-a-thon at the National Archives later this month.

Come one, come all!

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 20:21, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Washington, DC meetups in June

Greetings!

Wikimedia DC has yet another busy month in June. Whether you're a newcomer to Wikipedia or have years of experience, we're happy to see you come. Here's what's coming up:

• On Wednesday, June 11 from 7 to 9 PM come to the WikiSalon at the Cove co-working space. Hang out with Wikipedia enthusiasts!
• Saturday, June 14 is the Frederick County History Edit-a-Thon from 11 AM to 4 PM. Help improve local history on Wikipedia.
• The following Saturday, June 21, is the June Meetup. Dinner and drinks with Wikipedians!
• Come on Tuesday, June 24 for the Wikipedia in Your Library edit-a-thon at GWU on local and LGBT history.
• Last but not least, on Sunday, June 29 we have the Phillips Collection Edit-a-Thon in honor of the Made in America exhibit.

Wikipedia is better with friends, so why not come out to an event?

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 01:41, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

The Great American Wiknic and other events in July

I am pleased to announce our fourth annual picnic, the Great American Wiknic, will take place at Meridian Hill Park in Washington, D.C. on Sunday, July 13 from 1 to 5 PM (rain date: July 20). We will be hanging out by the statue of Dante Alighieri, a statue that was donated to the park in 1921 as a tribute to Italian Americans. Read more about the statue on Wikipedia. If you would like to sign up for the picnic, you can do so here. When signing up, say what you’re going to bring!

July will also feature the second annual Great American Wiknic in Frederick, Maryland. This year’s Frederick picnic will take place on Sunday, July 6 at Baker Park. Sign up here for the Frederick picnic.

What else is going on in July? We have the American Chemical Society Edit-a-Thon on Saturday, July 12, dedicated to notable chemists, and our monthly WikiSalon on Wednesday, July 16.

We hope to see you at our upcoming events!

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 21:22, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Battle of Fort Stevens Edit-a-Thon!

Greetings!

Sorry for the last minute update, but our friends at the DC Historical Society have scheduled a Battle of Fort Stevens Edit-a-Thon to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Civil War battle fought in the District. The event will last from noon to 2 PM on Wednesday, July 30. Hope you can make it!

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 21:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet

Come one and come all. To a presentation at the Laurel Historical Society about how you can help verify, validate, and edit the information that is on the front line of local history.

Picture your self leading the masses to improve Wikimedia one article at a time.

• Show the Internet who is the better editor.
• Be the creator of culture that you know you are.
• Spread the knowledge of noteworthy people who no one but you cares about.
• Lead the charge to a better Wikipedia --- eventually.

Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:08, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet

See you at the Laurel Pool Room, 9th and Main Street, Laurel, MD on Thursday, September 11, 2014 at 7:00 PM EST. See http://www.meetup.com/Wikimedia-DC/events/205494212/ for more information. Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:13, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC invites revolutionaries, free thinkers, and other sundry editors to a DC WikiSalon

The WikiSalon is a special meetup usually held during the first and third full weeks of every month, from 7 PM to 9 PM. It's an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss Wikimedia wikis and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own.

If you're coming by Metro, the closest station is Dupont Circle (on the Red Line). If you're driving, a lot of parking opens up downtown after 6:30 PM, so finding a parking space (even a free one) should be easy. Once you've found the building, go to Cove on the second floor. We will be in the conference room.

When: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 at 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM

Where: The Cove, Dupont Circle, 1730 Connecticut Avenue NW, 2nd floor, 20009, DC

For more information, see http://www.meetup.com/Wikimedia-DC/events/205500822/

My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:26, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC's Wonderful meetups

Wikimedia DC's Upcoming meetups

• Thursday, September 11: “Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet, One Article at a Time!”

  A presentation at the Laurel Historical Society about how you can help verify, validate, and edit the information that is on the front line of local history. Laurel Pool Room, 9th and Main Street in Laurel, MD. 7 PM.

• Wednesday, September 17: WikiSalon

  Come for the pizza, stay for the conversation. 7 PM – 9 PM

• Saturday, September 20: September Meetup

  Get dinner and drinks with fellow Wikipedians! 6 PM

• Sunday, September 21: Laurel History Edit-a-Thon

  Local history for Wikipedia! 10:15 AM – 4 PM

• Saturday, September 27 – Sunday, September 28: Please RSVP for the Open Government WikiHack at Eventbrite by clicking on the link. The National Archives and Records Administration and Wikimedia DC are teaming up to come up with solutions that help integrate government data into Wikipedia. 10:30 AM – 5 PM each day

My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 22:50, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

The wonderful annual meeting! And more!

Hello, fellow Wikipedian!

I am excited to announce our upcoming Annual Meeting at the National Archives! We'll have free lunch, an introduction by Archivist of the United States David Ferriero, and a discussion featuring Ed Summers, the creator of CongressEdits. Join your fellow DC-area Wikipedians on Saturday, October 18 from 12 to 4:30 PM. RSVP today!

Also coming up we have the Human Origins edit-a-thon on October 17 and the WikiSalon on October 22. Hope to see you at our upcoming events!

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 21:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

End-of-the-year meetups

Hello,

You're invited to the end-of-the-year meetup at Busboys and Poets on Sunday, December 14 at 6 PM. There is Wi-Fi, so bring your computer if you want!

You are also invited to our WikiSalon on Thursday, December 18 at 7 PM.

Hope to see you at our upcoming events!

Best,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 02:22, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Global account

Hi THF! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Cheers, —DerHexer (Talk) 23:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

File:George Bethune Adams.jpg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:George Bethune Adams.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 20:52, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Museum hacks and museum edits

Hello there!

Upcoming events:

• February 6–8: The third annual ArtBytes Hackathon at the Walters Art Museum! This year Wikimedia DC is partnering with the Walters for a hack-a-thon at the intersection of art and technology, and I would like to see Wikimedia well represented.
• February 11: The monthly WikiSalon, same place as usual. RSVP on Meetup or just show up!
• February 15: Wiki Loves Small Museums in Ocean City. Mary Mark Ockerbloom, with support from Wikimedia DC, will be leading a workshop at the Small Museum Association Conference on how they can contribute to Wikipedia. Tons of representatives from GLAM institutions will be present, and we are looking for volunteers. If you would like to help out, check out "Information for Volunteers".

I am also pleased to announce events for Wikimedia DC Black History Month with Howard University and NPR. Details on those events soon.

If you have any questions or have any requests, please email me at james.harewikimediadc.org.

See you there! – James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 03:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC celebrates Black History Month, and more!

Hello again!

Not even a week ago I sent out a message talking about upcoming events in DC. Guess what? There are more events coming up in February.

First, as a reminder, there is a WikiSalon on February 11 (RSVP here or just show up) and Wiki Loves Small Museums at the Small Museum Association Conference on February 15 (more information here).

Now, I am very pleased to announce:

• Tuesday, February 17 from 10 AM to 3 PM there will be #WikiTurgy at the University of Maryland. Join fellow theatre enthusiasts for a “mass act of public dramaturgy!”
• Thursday, February 19 from 10 AM to 4 PM we are hosting the Howard University Black History Edit-a-Thon. We are working in partnership with the Moorland-Spingarn Research Center to improve Wikipedia’s coverage of African-American and African diasporic history.
• Tuesday, February 24 from 6 PM to 8 PM we have the Black History Month “First Edit” at NPR. Help improve Wikipedia and help others make their first edit to Wikipedia!
• Finally, our monthly dinner meetup is on Saturday, February 28.

There is going to be a lot going on, and I hope you can come to some of the events!

If you have any questions or need any special accommodations, please let me know.

Regards,

James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 18:19, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Help with Hill+Knowlton?

Hi THF, I see you're busy right now, so no rush to respond, but I wanted to ping you regarding a new draft that I'm proposing for the Hill+Knowlton article. Reading back through the article's Talk page, I saw that you'd been involved with making some constructive changes in the past, and since you're really the only (non-COI) editor from the previous discussions who is still active, I thought it best to get in touch to let you know that I'm working to try and improve the article. As I am working as a consultant to H+K, I won't make any edits to the article myself and I'm hoping to find editors who would be interested to review the draft and move the content into the live article if they feel it is appropriate. If you do have a moment and want to take a look, on the Talk page I've put forward a new draft for the article that relies on secondary sources and aims to add more information about how the company operates, and how it has developed over time. I'm going to see if I can find any editors at relevant WikiProjects, but if you do get the time, your input would be most welcome. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 20:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi again, THF. I thought I’d see if you were back from your break in hopes that you might have some time now to review my new draft for H+K. Sadly, I've had no interest from other editors yet, though I'm still looking... I understand if you’re still busy, but if you're able to help out, I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks again, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 21:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Editing for Women's History in March

Hello,

I am very excited to announce this month’s events, focused on Women’s History Month:

• Sunday, March 8: Women in the Arts 2015 Edit-a-thon – 10 AM to 4 PM

  Women in the Arts and ArtAndFeminism Wikipedia Edit-a-thon at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Free coffee and lunch served!

  More information • RSVP on Meetup

• Wednesday, March 11: March WikiSalon – 7 PM to 9 PM

  An evening gathering with free-flowing conversation and free pizza.

  More information • RSVP on Meetup (or just show up!)

• Friday, March 13: NIH Women's History Month Edit-a-Thon – 9 AM to 4 PM

  In honor of Women’s History Month, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is organizing and hosting an edit-a-thon to improve coverage of women in science in Wikipedia. Free coffee and lunch served!

  More information • RSVP on Meetup

• Saturday, March 21: Women in STEM Edit-a-Thon at DCPL – 12 PM

  Celebrate Women's History Month by building, editing, and expanding articles about women in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields during DC Public Library's first full-day edit-a-thon.

  More information • RSVP on Meetup

• Friday, March 27: She Blinded Me with Science, Part III – 10 AM to 4 PM

  Smithsonian Institution Archives Groundbreaking Women in Science Wikipedia Edit-a-thon. Free lunch courtesy of Wikimedia DC!

  More information • RSVP on Meetup

• Saturday, March 28: March Dinner Meetup – 6 PM

  Dinner and drinks with your fellow Wikipedians!

  More information • RSVP on Meetup

Hope you can make it to an event! If you have any questions or require any special accommodations, please let me know.

Thanks,

James Hare

To unsubscribe from this newsletter, remove your name from this list. 02:24, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Upcoming attractions in DC

Hello!

Here are some upcoming DC meetups in April and May:

• Tuesday, April 14: National Archives Hackathon on Wikipedia Space with American University – 2:30-5pm

  See the latest work on the Wikipedia Space exhibit in the new NARA Innovation Hub and brainstorm on new ideas for a public exhibit about Wikipedia

• Friday, April 17: Women in Tech Edit-a-thon with Tech LadyMafia – 5-9pm

  Team up with Tech LadyMafia to improve Wikipedia content on women in the history of technology.

• Saturday, April 25: April Dinner Meetup – 6 PM

  Dinner and drinks with your fellow Wikipedians!

• Friday, May 1: International Labour Day Edit-a-Thon – 1:30 PM to 4:30 PM

  An edit-a-thon at the University of Maryland

Hope to see you at these events! If you have any questions or require any special accommodations, please let me know.

Cheers,

James Hare

To remove yourself from this mailing list, remove your name from this list. 22:16, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Requesting a second opinion

I saw that you were pretty active a while back at Wikipedia talk:Tagging pages for problems and thought you might be the right person to provide a second opinion here regarding a GA article I wrote being tagged as "Reads like a news release". If you have a minute to take a look. CorporateM (Talk) 19:15, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:THF/Gerald Walpin

User:THF/Gerald Walpin, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:THF/Gerald Walpin and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:THF/Gerald Walpin during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 21:47, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

February events and meetups in DC

Greetings from Wikimedia DC!

February is shaping up to be a record-breaking month for us, with nine scheduled edit-a-thons and several other events:

• On Friday, February 12, NPR will host a Black History Month First Edit event.
• On Saturday, February 13 and Sunday, February 14, we're working with the Wiki Education Foundation to hold a series of four edit-a-thons at the AAAS 2016 Annual Meeting.
• On Tuesday, February 16, we're holding the Smithsonian American Art Museum and American University WikiWorkshop with Professor Andrew Lih's class.
• On Saturday, February 20, the Smithsonian American Art Museum will host the African American Artists Edit-a-Thon.
• On Friday, February 26, Howard University will host its second annual Black History Month Edit-a-Thon.
• On Saturday, February 27, we have three different events. In the morning, we're holding an Accessibility Edit-a-Thon at Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library. In the afternoon, we'll host our second February WikiSalon at Cove Dupont Circle, followed by our monthly dinner meetup at Vapiano.

We hope to see you at one—or all—of these events!

Do you have an idea for a future event? Please write to us at info@wikimediadc.org!

Kirill Lokshin (talk) 16:41, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

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March events and meetups in DC

Greetings from Wikimedia DC!

Looking for something to do in DC in March? We have a series of great events planned for the month:

• On Wednesday, March 9, we'll host our first March WikiSalon at Cove Dupont Circle.
• On Friday, March 11, the National Archives will host the Women in the Civil War Edit-a-Thon.
• On Saturday, March 19, the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian will host the Color History with the Smithsonian! event, and we'll hold our second Accessibility Edit-a-Thon at the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library.
• On Sunday, March 20, the American Chemical Society will host the Computers in Chemistry Edit-a-Thon.
• On Saturday, March 26, we'll host our second March WikiSalon at Cove Dupont Circle, followed by our monthly dinner meetup at Vapiano.

Can't make it to an event? Most of our edit-a-thons allow virtual participation; see the guide for more details.

Do you have an idea for a future event? Please write to us at info@wikimediadc.org!

Kirill Lokshin (talk) 16:29, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

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Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Smalltown DJs (2nd nomination)

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Smalltown DJs (2nd nomination). Notifying editors who have participated in a previous discussion about the same topic or similar topic: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Smalltown DJs - TheMagnificentist 10:21, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, THF. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 1 § Category:WikiProject X members

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 1 § Category:WikiProject X members on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Qwerfjkltalk 09:34, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

"Wikipedia:PUFF" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wikipedia:PUFF has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 25 § Wikipedia:PUFF until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 02:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)