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Miscellany for deletion (MfD) is a place where Wikipedians decide what should be done with problematic pages in the namespaces which aren't covered by other specialized deletion discussion areas. Items sent here are usually discussed for seven days; then they are either deleted by an administrator or kept, based on community consensus as evident from the discussion, consistent with policy, and with careful judgment of the rough consensus if required.
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editWhat may be nominated for deletion here:
- Pages not covered by other XFD venues, including pages in these namespaces: Draft:, Help:, Portal:, MediaWiki:, Wikipedia: (including WikiProjects), User:, TimedText: and the various Talk: namespaces
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Requests to undelete pages deleted after discussion here, and debate whether discussions here have been properly closed, both take place at Wikipedia:Deletion review, in accordance with Wikipedia's undeletion policy.
Before nominating a page for deletion
editBefore nominating a page for deletion, please consider these guidelines:
Deleting pages in your own userspace |
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Please familiarize yourself with the following policies
edit- Wikipedia:Deletion policy – our deletion policy that describes how we delete things by consensus
- Wikipedia:Deletion process – our guidelines on how to list anything for deletion
- Wikipedia:Guide to deletion – a how-to guide whose protocols on discussion format and shorthands also apply here
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Instructions on listing pages for deletion:
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To list a page for deletion, follow this three-step process: (replace PageName with the name of the page, including its namespace, to be deleted) Note: Users must be logged in to complete step II. An unregistered user who wishes to nominate a page for deletion should complete step I and post their reasoning on Wikipedia talk:Miscellany for deletion with a notification to a registered user to complete the process.
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Administrator instructions
editV | Apr | May | Jun | Jul | Total |
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CfD | 0 | 0 | 1 | 20 | 21 |
TfD | 0 | 0 | 0 | 20 | 20 |
MfD | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 5 |
FfD | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
RfD | 0 | 0 | 1 | 36 | 37 |
AfD | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
Administrator instructions for closing and relisting discussions can be found here.
Archived discussions
editA list of archived discussions can be located at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Archived debates.
Current discussions
edit- Pages currently being considered for deletion are indexed by the day on which they were first listed. Please place new listings at the top of the section for the current day. If no section for the current day is present, please start a new section.
July 28, 2024
editNormally I consider deleting drafts that do not have obvious copyright, BLP, or other time-sensitive issues to be unnecessary if not vindictive. However, at this point this page has just served as a source to copy text from for the creator to continually recreate the page with their sockpuppet accounts, without attempting to resolve the issues raised at the AfD. Yaksar (let's chat) 16:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - This is a draft version of an article that was deleted after Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Communist Party, which appears to have been a snowball closure. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - Deletion is a suboptimal way to deal with the disruption by sockpuppets. The article at this title was deleted after discussion, which appears to have been a snowball close. The deletion appears to have been for lack of notability by a newly created organization, and so too soon, so that keeping a draft is reasonable. The draft is the work of sockpuppets, but the draft was created before the puppeteer was blocked, so that G5 does not apply. So the draft is simply a draft by a blocked editor, and drafts by blocked editors are often kept for possible updates by good-faith editors. The sockpuppets have also tried to game the title of the article, but the renamed versions of the article were properly deleted as G4. If any more sockpuppets pop up, which is likely, they can be blocked, and anything that they create can be deleted as G4, G5, or both. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- SALT the alternate titles in article space, because their creation was improper. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - In addition to this draft likely acting as a source for its author to recreate deleted pages, the content of the draft itself is completely unusable for a mainspace article due to its political bias, total lack of reliable sourcing, etc. If any legitimate user were to edit this draft should it not be deleted if its subject ever gains adequate notability, it would instantly be the case that they would have to alter and remove so much of its promotional, poorly-sourced content that they might as well simply start over (WP:STARTOVER). SociusMono1976 (talk) 22:45, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. “ was founded on the 21st July, 2024” is a pretty obvious reason for it to be in draftspace, contained in draftspace, where the best hope is the appearance of new quality sources to replace the many, excessive, unsuitable poor sources. As a source to copy text, it is better to keep that evidence. Draft deletion is a poor way to deal with editors doing things badly. SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Draft:Neuto Network (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)
- Draft:Neuto Plus (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Draft:Jugia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Draft:List of programms broadcast by Jugia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Draft:Leafy (TV network) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Draft:Gil (TV network) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Cluster of interreleated likely WP:HOAX articles about television stations in Kenya (sometimes, but not always, persistently misspelled as "Kenia"), all completely unsupported by any proper verification of their existence in any sources of either the reliable or primary varieties.
The "main" website in Draft:Neuto Network does appear to exist, but leads to the website of a resort hotel chain in Southeast Asia, not a television network in Kenya, and virtually all other offsite links in any of these articles (whether used as references or external links) either 404 out or don't appear to contain any content about Kenyan television (e.g. pedriatics journal articles), and searching Google for any of these names also fails across the board to locate any verification of their existence whatsoever. Related pages at some of the same names were also created at simple: (right in mainspace as it doesn't have the same "anon IPs cannot create pages in mainspace restriction that we do here), but have already been deleted as hoaxes. Bearcat (talk) 12:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete as per nominator. This is a walled garden that is a non-obvious hoax. The supposed web sites, several of which 404 out, and the main one of which is the authentic web site of an unrelated business, are further evidence that this is a hoax. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Walled gardens such as this are occasionally created, and are sufficiently uncommon that we do not need any special procedure for dealing with them, because they can be deleted after discussion, as we are doing. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject AI Cleanup/Possible AI-using editors (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)
This reads a little bit like a hit-list or wall of shame. If there are individuals using AI in a way which contradicts Wikipedia policy, that's one thing and can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. After all, that's (partly) what the WikiProject is here for. But simply listing people here for suspecting of using AI reeks a little of guilt by association, and unhelpful in building an encyclopaedia. GnocchiFan (talk) 01:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, it seemed weird to me too. If there's a problem, it should go to an appropriate noticeboard, I would think. SomeoneDreaming (talk) 01:36, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- delete; this was created really early in the wikiproject's development when we were still barely keeping up with a big spike in AI-generated slop on here and is no longer necessary or maintained actively. the user warning templates now sort into invisible categories. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 03:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Surplus to requirements, as explained by Sawyer. ~ Pbritti (talk) 03:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - This list consists of aspersions that other editors are acting in bad faith. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:30, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
Keep, tentatively, for now. Even though this is not a Userpage, the best applying standard is found at WP:UPNOT, in a section where the text does not match the bold row text or shortcut,
Users should generally not maintain in public view negative information related to others without very good reason. Negative evidence, laundry lists of wrongs, collations of diffs and criticisms related to problems, etc., should be removed, blanked, or kept privately (i.e., not on the wiki) if they will not be imminently used, and the same once no longer needed.
- Is it a wall of shame, implying permanent, or is it a rolling list being addressed? Being identified or accused of using mass AI generated material for contributions is negative, but I think it is justified as there is a “very good reason”. Unattributed AI contributions is an attribution failure, and a red flag for quality failure as AI content is currently to be suspected of reading OK but being capable of being grossly flawed. Are named users approached on their usertalk page and invited to respond? Yes. That’s good enough for a transitory listing.
- — SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- User:Sawyer777, is the use of AI to generate content a passed fad? SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:42, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- I’m guessing, this was useful while trying to deal with the initial problem of AI contributions, and that use has passed, and that it should be archived, or deleted. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, not constructive or required for the project. Editors using AI in ways that contradict policies or are disruptive can be warned and blocked, there's no need to have a list of "possible suspects" hidden somewhere. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep and blank the list: IIRC this was intended as a centralized area for members to check the edits and revert/warn/whatever. This did not happen, and it turned into a wall of shame. However, I think this page is in the historical interest and should be kept tagged historical (as it already is) and the list should be courtesy blanked but available in the history. Diverging Diamond (is Queen of Hearts's alt; talk) 19:31, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
July 27, 2024
editThis draft is being tendentiously resubmitted in order to try to create an article on a YouTuber who has been found to be non-notable in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jack Massey Welsh in December 2018. That title has been salted.
It was then recreated as JackSucksAtLife, an attempt to game the name, but was renominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JackSucksAtLife, and speedily deleted as G4 in October 2020. That title has also been salted.
A draft was then created again in May 2023 and submitted, and declined twice. I then Rejected the draft in November 2023, because the subject had already been found to be non-notable in two AFDs, and no real effort was being made to address the issue of notability. It was then resubmitted later in November 2023, with no attempt to discuss the rejection. I had said, in my rejection, that the draft should not be resubmitted without discussing the rejection (but we don't expect ultras to follow the instructions). It has then been declined two more times, and then Rejected again by User:CFA (thank you). The reviewers couldn't accept this draft even if we wanted to accept it, so continuing to submit it is useless. If the proponents actually have new sources that they want considered, and so are requesting that one of the titles be desalted, they should ask for community discussion at Deletion Review rather than just pointlessly resubmitting, which is wasting their time and that of the reviewers, who can't accept the draft even if wanted to accept it. So I am asking for community discussion to delete this draft. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Resubmitting is not going to do anything except waste time. It was declined twice, rejected, declined two more times, then rejected again. If the creator(s) believe this would survive an AfD, they can take it to Deletion Review where other editors are able to weigh in. Then, the title can be de-salted and the article can be restored. I suppose this could also be userfied if any of the submitters want it. C F A 💬 20:06, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
Seems to be a misuse of the "User:" space. I was original considering nominating this page for WP:U5, but I'm not sure. However, I'm really thinking the U5 is appropriate as the user has a username I would consider reporting to WP:UAA since the username structure makes it seem as though it's something official with Wikipedia, and the purpose of the page seems to be advertising WP:SEO. Steel1943 (talk) 17:04, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also, see related WP:RFD nomination: Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 27#User:TalkSubject/Joe Biden. Steel1943 (talk) 17:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at the original revision of the page, they appear to declare themselves as an alternate account of User:Vanished user 1428570, which is now retired and vanished. Both accounts have stopped editing for more than three years, so there isn't any immediate disruption at least. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 19:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the "Vanished user 1428570" had a questionable user name before they retired as well. Steel1943 (talk) 21:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
July 25, 2024
editDraft with no citations written by a blocked sock Bremps... 15:53, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom - Creator blocked, no need to keep it now, –Davey2010Talk 17:31, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - A good-standing editor might add sources. Otherwise it will go away in six months. No need to clear draft space of the work of blocked users. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:03, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - The originator does not appear to be a blocked sockpuppet, but a blocked disrupter-warrior. That is a distinction without a difference. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:03, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
July 24, 2024
editUnnecessary talk page for a redirect, used has been blocked before for their disruptive editing soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 11:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Valid talk page post. SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete because no one's going to search Ninten, click on the redirect and then go to the talkpage, the talkpage post imho isn't valid or even useful. –Davey2010Talk 21:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- It is certainly valid for anyone to post on a redirect all page their perceived meaning of them term.
- It could be useful, the IP suggests a better target. Even if not useful, “not useful” is not a reason to delete talk page posts, this one doesn’t even come close to a case for blanking.
- We certainly don’t want mfd to become a forum for examining the usefulness of talk page posts. SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:15, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- It certainly isn't valid, no one gives a monkeys what an IP's perceived meaning of the word is, If we allowed such posts Talk pages would be full of everyones percieved meanings of words,
- "Ninten was a misspelling of Nintendo" isn't a suggestion though, they're simply telling us what they think,
- "We certainly don’t want mfd to become a forum for examining the usefulness of talk page posts" Well MFD exists for a plethora of reasons one of them being general usefulness. –Davey2010Talk 17:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- IPs are welcome to post what they think about a mainspace title on its talk page.
- MfD is not for discussing general usefulness. SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:58, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - Useless but harmless. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Discussing a potential redirect retarget (which is what I'm assuming the IP is doing here) is a completely valid usage of a talk page, even if it was started by a now-blocked IP (who will be unblocked in 2 weeks). Curbon7 (talk) 03:40, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
"Draft" consisting solely of an infobox with no text beyond a repetition of the page title, which an editor just persistently keeps trying to file in mainspace categories, even after having been told that drafts can't be in mainspace categories -- and meanwhile, they're making absolutely no effort whatsoever to actually add any content to render this into anything resembling a proper article for the purposes of being able to even consider returning it to mainspace. It's simply becoming disruptive to have to keep removing this from categories day after day. Bearcat (talk) 00:25, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Question - Why is deletion, which is a content action, being requested in place of some sort of sanction against the user? Robert McClenon (talk) 05:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Most of what Bearian wrote seems to be better suited to user_talk, education, warnings and possibly blocking. Not deletion of a draft page.
- Keep per WP:NDRAFT. SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- As I clearly stated right in my nomination statement, user talk education/warning has already been attempted, and was ignored because the editor just put it right back into categories again afterward. So it's not my job to patiently keep reeducating them over and over again — if they ignore me the first time, what guarantee do I have that they won't just ignore me again the second and third and fifth and nine hundredth times? Bearcat (talk) 13:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- You should escalate. Educate, warn, block.
- Can you link “user talk education/warning has already been attempted”? SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- As I clearly stated right in my nomination statement, user talk education/warning has already been attempted, and was ignored because the editor just put it right back into categories again afterward. So it's not my job to patiently keep reeducating them over and over again — if they ignore me the first time, what guarantee do I have that they won't just ignore me again the second and third and fifth and nine hundredth times? Bearcat (talk) 13:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Partially block the editor from the draft. The draft isn't the problem. The editor is the problem. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - Another editor might add text and submit it for review. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
July 22, 2024
edit- Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/The West Wing task force (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)
As long as Joe is putting up WikiProjects for deletion, I thought I'd put up my very stale task force I created when I was in my West Wing fanaticism phase. I may come back to that phase, but neither I nor the project needs this task force :) Since there are a few other people who signed their name, I thought I should bring it here rather than nuking by G7. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, talk page never used, so it doesn't seem in need of archiving/redirecting. Appreciate the self-nom. CMD (talk) 02:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete as uncontroversial maintenance. – Joe (talk) 07:31, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, as what looks like basically a G7 to me since it's only been edited by one person. Parenthetically I am a little confused as to how five names got onto the list of participants without them being in the edit history -- presumably this page was copied over from a subsection of some other page that had them all, or else some kind of formatting error(?) jp×g🗯️ 07:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Copied from a petition, if memory serves. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:25, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. jp×g🗯️ 10:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Copied from a petition, if memory serves. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:25, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - The talk page of a WikiProject or task force is a better measure of activity than the project page. The absence of a talk page, after two years, is reason to delete. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:03, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Stale unfiled RfAs
edit- Group of stale unfiled RfAs – (View MfD)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/DebashisM (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Baseball Watcher (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/D4135t~enwiki (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/GoBlackhawksGo (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Harimua Thailand (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Parys (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Atomicthumbs (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/olivetree39 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Bobsmith319 2 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Naconkantari 2 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Countryboy603 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Shonyx (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/JASDVI (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Mr.Mani Raj Paul 1 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/LewisT34 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Jmanlucas (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/AndrewSE19 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Chikukiri (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Each of these has either been languishing since before 2021 or is the creation of a sockblocked user, or both. I don't think these retain any historical or practical value, so I'm putting these up for deletion here. If someone wants to root through the 2022s or even the horribly malformed ones from 2024 that are pretty clearly abandoned, up to them :) I thought these would be a good start. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete all, obviously per nom. It's a shame they're not CSDable; if they were drafts they'd be dead already. ——Serial Number 54129 20:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep all and, if necessary, speedy-close them as unfiled/malformed. There's plenty of random crap in RfA space; as late as last October, about 58 of the entries in Wikipedia:2005 requests for adminship had no tallies in the table. As I was going through them, it occurred to me that a lot of them were kind of stupid; nonetheless they're part of the historical record. Fot example, one of the people in that list you post is now a famous tweetfluencer under the same name, and one of them was as I recall a rather well-known figure of the old days. If the presence of old unfiled RfAs is messing up some statistics, I think that is a good argument to actually close them, but I think deleting them runs the risk of putting ragged holes in the history of project governance for no clear benefit. jp×g🗯️ 06:48, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- @JPxG: historical pages are meant to serve as
records of past Wikipedia processes to give context to historical discussions and to inform future discussions on similar topics
. These don't do that. They were never filed, attracted no discussion, and are not retained in any table or log as a useful reference. How exactly are they part of thehistory of the project governance
? They're no more a part of it than article drafts are, and we delete those after six months. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:40, 23 July 2024 (UTC)- Well, okay: in January 2006 Nakon was nominated for adminship by Sceptre, received one support and two opposes, and withdrew later the same day. In February 2006 Tv316 attempted to renominate him for adminship, with a paragraph-long nomination statement, and the same day Nakon declined it. In March 2006, Nakon's third nomination (from Master Jay) passed 98/13/10. The red text here is the part of the historical record that would be destroyed by deleting the page. I'm not saying this is the Dead Sea Scrolls or whatever, just that feels like it's obviously part of the history of Wikipedia and contextualizes the user and the RfA process itself, the exact same way as the first unsuccessful request does. jp×g🗯️ 07:48, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's fair, I'll withdraw that one. Do any others fit that pattern? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:51, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- User:Jmanlucas is still active and may be planning to file still (last edit a week or two ago)
- LewisT34, JASDVI and AndrewSE19 are NOTNOW SNOWs, Shonyx and OliveTree39 are socks.
- Mr.Mani Raj Paul is a very premature RfA (was made five months after the account -- by now, six years later, they are 14,000 edits deeper and may have a chance of passing -- who knows), similar situ with Countryboy603.
- If I'm going to be totally honest it feels like the socks are -- I mean, Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Eostrix was a sock RfA, it would obviously be silly to delete that. I think sock RfAs are probably useful for establishing a modus operandi for socks, or at least as useful as the other stuff we keep around. We don't delete the talk pages of vandals/socks, for example, even though those are 99% useless crap. jp×g🗯️ 08:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Parys and olivetree39 would be G5 eligible (Shonyx is the sockmaster, so not G5able; Eostrix wouldn't be G5able either). Any objection to me speedying those two?
- LewisT34, JASDVI, and AndrewSE19 would be NOTNOW/SNOW if they were ever filed, which they weren't.
- Mr.Mani Raj Paul, Countryboy603, and Jmanlucas would be welcome to request REFUNDs if they really wanted to work off of these versions, but they've given no indication that they still intend to run and would probably prefer to start fresh. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:24, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- SmokeyJoe's idea to userfy them seems pretty smart, so I would be fine with keeping the ones that are significant-in-some-vague-sense, and then userfying the ones that would otherwise be deleted. jp×g🗯️ 22:34, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's fair, I'll withdraw that one. Do any others fit that pattern? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:51, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, okay: in January 2006 Nakon was nominated for adminship by Sceptre, received one support and two opposes, and withdrew later the same day. In February 2006 Tv316 attempted to renominate him for adminship, with a paragraph-long nomination statement, and the same day Nakon declined it. In March 2006, Nakon's third nomination (from Master Jay) passed 98/13/10. The red text here is the part of the historical record that would be destroyed by deleting the page. I'm not saying this is the Dead Sea Scrolls or whatever, just that feels like it's obviously part of the history of Wikipedia and contextualizes the user and the RfA process itself, the exact same way as the first unsuccessful request does. jp×g🗯️ 07:48, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- @JPxG: historical pages are meant to serve as
- Userfy and blank all, assuming those created by a blocked sockpuppet are already deleted per G5. There is no need or good reason to hide the history. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete all as none are serving any sort of purpose. –Davey2010Talk 18:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep the ones from active users with high enough # of contribs to reasonably pass an RfA (Jmanlucas, etc.); let them proceed at their own pace. No opinion on the rest, but I wouldn't be particularly upset if the result is deletion. Curbon7 (talk) 00:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and ignore. No harm in keeping. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Kamala Harris (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Joe Biden (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Donald Trump (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Hillary Clinton (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
These four wikiprojects on US presidential candidates were all created by Another Believer without following the recommended proposal process and none of them ever became active. He was advised that this was likely a waste of time after creating WikiProject Joe Biden four years ago but chose to ignore it. They are all redundant to WikiProject United States Presidents which is active and has existed for nearly twenty years. – Joe (talk) 15:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep all. Unnecessary nomination. The process for creating new WikiProjects is recommended, not required, and the older WikiProjects have talk page discussions and archives that should be kept. If you don't want to join WikiProject Kamala Harris, then don't, but I don't understand the crusade to delete multiple WikiProjects outright. Inactive projects can be merged and/or archived. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The process is optional but the underlying logic—that you should find out whether anyone wants to work with you on new wikiproject before you spin up a whole set of project pages and categories that will need to be maintained indefinitely—has proven to be sound advice time and time again. I would have proposed merging them into WP US Presidents if they had ever been active, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Can you point to any significant talk page discussions that are worth archiving? – Joe (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't feel a need to comment further. Happy editing, ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:19, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The process is optional but the underlying logic—that you should find out whether anyone wants to work with you on new wikiproject before you spin up a whole set of project pages and categories that will need to be maintained indefinitely—has proven to be sound advice time and time again. I would have proposed merging them into WP US Presidents if they had ever been active, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Can you point to any significant talk page discussions that are worth archiving? – Joe (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I am not involved in any of the Wikiprojects, I just saw them in the Women In Red talk page, and I do not plan to get involved as these topics stress me out; but I do not think that they are necessarily redundant to WikiProject United States Presidents as that page covers all USA presidents over nearly 240 years, whilst these 4 are extremely recent and hence will probably have more coverage and articles. Additionally, many of these will have others article unrelated to presidency (e.g. Donald Trump's various crimes). I also believe that discussing these on the relevant WikiProjects for all 5 of them would be a better idea than nominating for deletion. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 15:41, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- As a point of comparison the only other wikiprojects that cover the leaders of a specific country are WikiProject Sinhalese Monarchy (defunct for a decade) and WikiProject British Royalty (active). There are no wikiprojects devoted to one specific politician apart from these four and WikiProject Barack Obama (also inactive). Of course where you draw the line in determining wikiproject scopes is arbitrary, but the evidence that individual US presidents/presidential candidates are not viable topics of independent wikiprojects is that the oldest was created in 2009 and none have ever been active. – Joe (talk) 16:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I generally don't think we need individual projects with 100 or so articles to them. I said so last night when I saw AB make the KHive project. Delete Kamala as its brand new. But I'm inclined to keep the others because Wikipedia:WikiProject#Inactive projects says
These projects are retained for reference as they may be viable because they provide topic-specific considerations of the many site-wide policies and guidelines that still apply to a subset of articles.
And I advise using the recommended protocol for project formation in the future. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to WikiProject United States Presidents. The fact that Biden, Kamala Harris and Trump WikiProjects are all super active topics, while Clinton and Obama...less so, is a good sign that a shared WikiProject would be beneficial. If someone learns something by accident about Warren G. Harding or James Buchanan they will survive. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 18:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to WikiProject United States Presidents per Shushugah. There isn't enough activity around all US Presidents to prevent articles about these four from getting the attention they need from the wider WikiProject. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 21:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC) (UTC)
- Redirect to WP:USP (or WP:USPE) per @Shushugah and @Ahecht. 00101984hjw (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge as taskforces of WPUSPRES? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also Harris should be treated like any other US politician unless actually elected. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 02:24, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Presidents states it covers Vice Presidents, so Harris already falls under its self-assigned scope. (So do spouses.) CMD (talk) 02:26, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I personally would favor this OR what I said below (make all of these into their own task forces). Historyday01 (talk) 19:08, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also Harris should be treated like any other US politician unless actually elected. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 02:24, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Presidents. In addition to the activity considerations mentioned above, it seems beneficial to group conversations in an area not framed around a single individual. A visual indicator of writing in the broader encyclopaeidic context, and possibly also avoiding recentism. CMD (talk) 01:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I don't have a hard view at this point on whether to keep these or not, but I do think that if the result is "Delete" or "Redirect", it should be a soft redirect from their respective front pages, with each project marked "inactive" and perhaps all their project pages tagged with {{historical}}. I can't fathom why we would want to destroy this work or make it too hard to find, particularly in cases where the WikiProjects have been around for years. Also, perhaps their members/participants should be informed. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 02:18, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are no actual participants and no work to archive. They aren't former groups of editors that went active; just pages that AB creates every four years then abandons. That's why they are at MfD rather than the usual discussion about merging inactive projects. – Joe (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see a lot of listed participants in the Joe Biden WP, for example, and even though I'm not listed, I did cleanups of their listed articles recently. I don't see a hard reason to make them disappear. Mothballing is within reason, though. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 06:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Were you working from information at that Wikiproject page? If so, what were you working from? I've raised a note in another MfD about the potential use of tools such as Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Joe Biden articles by quality statistics. The Wikiproject doesn't seem to have done much editor-wise, no post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Joe Biden has received a reply since 2020, so if some other aspect of the Wikiproject was separately useful that's a helpful anecdote. CMD (talk) 07:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I built my AWB run list from Category:WikiProject Joe Biden articles. I found this through Category:WikiProject Joe Biden shown at the bottom of that project's front page. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 07:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! That's coming from the Wikiproject template I believe, same as the quality statistics. Best, CMD (talk) 07:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I built my AWB run list from Category:WikiProject Joe Biden articles. I found this through Category:WikiProject Joe Biden shown at the bottom of that project's front page. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 07:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Were you working from information at that Wikiproject page? If so, what were you working from? I've raised a note in another MfD about the potential use of tools such as Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Joe Biden articles by quality statistics. The Wikiproject doesn't seem to have done much editor-wise, no post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Joe Biden has received a reply since 2020, so if some other aspect of the Wikiproject was separately useful that's a helpful anecdote. CMD (talk) 07:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also, per WP:AGF and common sense, these WikiProjects seem to have a serious purpose. Just because the creator maybe didn't stick around doesn't mean others didn't take them seriously. I'd go by the rule of thumb of whether the projects received significant action or not. If they did, mothball them with a soft redirect. If very little or nothing, then delete/redirect. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 06:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Totally agree, I'd just put these in the "little or nothing" category. Putting your name on a list takes five seconds. I don't consider that a sign of life. – Joe (talk) 07:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see a lot of listed participants in the Joe Biden WP, for example, and even though I'm not listed, I did cleanups of their listed articles recently. I don't see a hard reason to make them disappear. Mothballing is within reason, though. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 06:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are no actual participants and no work to archive. They aren't former groups of editors that went active; just pages that AB creates every four years then abandons. That's why they are at MfD rather than the usual discussion about merging inactive projects. – Joe (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Something: it seems unnecessary to have these as separate WikiProjects in their own right (since nobody really participates in them as such) but it does seem useful to have these categories for the sort of bizarre twilight-zone thing we actually use WikiProjects for, which is tracking edits to groups of related pages, making lists with User:HotArticlesBot, sorting stuff like {{expert}} templates, et cetera. At the very least, for actively campaigning candidates or sitting presidents I think it does; I don't know how much it makes sense to have a super-narrow categorization like this for Hillary or Obama or W. But if you look at, for example, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Donald_Trump#Article_alerts you can actually see a pretty decent slice of articles broadly related to Trump and his administration (I'm not sure why Wikipedia:WikiProject_Joe_Biden doesn't have the same thing, but you get the idea). jp×g🗯️ 11:05, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. What about making "Wikipedia:WikiProject Kamala Harris", "Wikipedia:WikiProject Joe Biden", "Wikipedia:WikiProject Donald Trump" and "Wikipedia:WikiProject Hillary Clinton" into task forces or something like that? Historyday01 (talk) 19:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- The issue there is that since these are dead wikiprojects they'll just end up being dead taskforces. I understand that residual tools like Wikipedia:WikiProject Donald Trump#Article alerts can be useful but the point of wikiprojects and task forces is to assemble a group of editors, not categories. And of course without the editors to maintain the categories, those will also slowly decay. What I think we should be exploring instead is whether tools like article alerts can be adapted to work with mainspace category trees, which are maintained. – Joe (talk) 19:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, more or less. The whole WikiProject framework seems kind of bizarre and arseways for about 99% of them -- we have a few (milhist, vidya, storms) that actually involve active coordination between editors, and then about nine million like Theme songs, Animals in media, Limnology and Oceanography, Islands, etc where it's not really clear what it means to be a member or participate in them, and they just kind of exist for the sake of being an ad-hoc categorization system. For a while I have dreamed of doing something about this but I don't really know what it would be. jp×g🗯️ 09:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- @JPxG: If you're not already, watchlist WT:COUNCIL for ongoing discussions along similar lines :) – Joe (talk) 09:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, more or less. The whole WikiProject framework seems kind of bizarre and arseways for about 99% of them -- we have a few (milhist, vidya, storms) that actually involve active coordination between editors, and then about nine million like Theme songs, Animals in media, Limnology and Oceanography, Islands, etc where it's not really clear what it means to be a member or participate in them, and they just kind of exist for the sake of being an ad-hoc categorization system. For a while I have dreamed of doing something about this but I don't really know what it would be. jp×g🗯️ 09:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- The issue there is that since these are dead wikiprojects they'll just end up being dead taskforces. I understand that residual tools like Wikipedia:WikiProject Donald Trump#Article alerts can be useful but the point of wikiprojects and task forces is to assemble a group of editors, not categories. And of course without the editors to maintain the categories, those will also slowly decay. What I think we should be exploring instead is whether tools like article alerts can be adapted to work with mainspace category trees, which are maintained. – Joe (talk) 19:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- @JPxG, we don't need these pages to achieve that goal. For any use that would have relied on Category:WikiProject Joe Biden articles, we can use Category:Joe Biden instead. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. What about making "Wikipedia:WikiProject Kamala Harris", "Wikipedia:WikiProject Joe Biden", "Wikipedia:WikiProject Donald Trump" and "Wikipedia:WikiProject Hillary Clinton" into task forces or something like that? Historyday01 (talk) 19:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think that redirecting all of these to Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Presidents would be the best outcome, and while I did appreciate his creation of Wikipedia:WikiProject COVID-19 in 2020, I ask User:Another Believer to avoid creating WikiProject pages in the future unless and until he has an actual social group in place. A WP:WikiProject is a group of editors – not a collection of pages, a subject area, or a categorization scheme. The pages, templates, and categories should not be created unless and until there is a real group of editors ready to use them. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:04, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect and Merge to Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Presidents. A check of the viewing of their talk pages shows that, except for Trump, they have an average of zero (that is, less than 0.5) pageviews daily, and Trump (a polarizing figure) has 1 pageview daily. Mostly they are just sitting there. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
July 21, 2024
editWikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Who writes Wikipedia?/Rewrite |
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The result of the discussion was: redirect to Wikipedia:Who writes Wikipedia?. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
This page is a sandbox abandoned since 2007. It isn't useful anymore, so propose to delete it. See Wikipedia talk:Who writes Wikipedia?#Proposed rewrite. —andrybak (talk) 22:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
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July 20, 2024
editIf you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:spa|username}} ; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}} . |
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Valjean/Archive 32 |
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus. It's clear the community is closely divided at this time about the appropriateness of this user page and further discussion is unlikely to lead to consensus. Barkeep49 (talk) 04:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC) This is a violation of numerous site policies. 1) Editors should not use Wikipedia for content that they insist other editors are not allowed to read or discuss. 2) The title is deliberately misleading; the page is not a talk-page archive, but an extremely long and rambling article about the "Donald Trump pee tape" and other rumors involving Russia. 3) Some of the accusations and insinuations against Mr. Trump are BLP violations; the clear intention of the article is to engage in personal attacks against Mr. Trump. Walsh90210 (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
@Robert McClenon: please clarify a few things for me:
Please answer my questions. The content is based on myriad RS, many of the highest quality and reliability, as this has national security implications and is the subject of FBI and Congressional investigations, testimony, and several lawsuits by Trump, which he has lost. You should read these DYK? items. Myriad RS are behind each one: Did you know?
And one more:
I do not use words lightly in my draft article, and, whenever necessary, I have used words like "alleged", which is what we do with unproven claims and allegations. The rumor has not been misrepresented as proven fact. It's an extremely notable and serious rumor that did not start with the Steele dossier, and Trump has repeatedly lied about it. That increases the notability, as RS have documented these lies. The topic easily passes the GNG notability guideline. If someone has a problem with some of the content, I have written, right at the top of the page, for them to "email me". -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
Relevant guidelines for this MfD Different "namespaces" here at Wikipedia are governed by different rules, and that includes the rules for MfDs. Valjean's work here is governed by personal "userspace drafts", not Wikipedia:Drafts (which governs drafts in "draftspace"). Unlike a "personal userspace draft",
This implies that a user has nearly full control of a draft in their "private userspace", both creation and publication, but not their work in draftspace. (That "nearly" implies that control is not absolute, as with all things at Wikipedia. There are exceptions to every rule.) If I'm wrong, please enlighten us. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 23:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
For convenience: ANI complaint -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
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Old business
editEverything below this point is old business; the 7-day review period that began 05:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC) ended today on 29 July 2024. Editors may continue to add comments until the discussion is closed but they should keep in mind that the discussion below this marker may be closed at any time without further notice. Discussions that have already been closed will be removed from the page automatically by Legobot and need no further action. |
July 21, 2024
edit- User:BMarGlines/Template:Channel Four Television Corporation (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)
Speedy delete: It's a fake Mvcg66b3r (talk) 03:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's just a sandbox BMarGlines (talk) 23:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sandbox stuff still has to be real. Sandbox is for working on real stuff that's meant to be transferred back into mainspace, not for working on fake stuff that doesn't exist at all and could never legitimately be in a real article — so a thing that would be reverted or deleted as a hoax in mainspace can't be in sandbox either, and "it's a sandbox" is not a free exemption from it still having to be real. Bearcat (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
July 19, 2024
editPer WP:FAKEARTICLE, fake article for Drummore Primary School JaggedHamster (talk) 21:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I would be open to draftification, but this subject appears to be A7 worthy if it were in article space so it has effectively no chance of promotion to article. VQuakr (talk) 21:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Move: to User:Robert_Birkett/Drummore Primary School, Stranraer, Scotland and Ignore. Not a FAKEARTICLE, but not a main userpage. SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - The school as it stands fails WP:NSCHOOL so moving this userpage although helpful is just setting the creator up to fail, Results on Google News all fail LOCALCOV with the BBC News source just being a one-bit mention, I appreciate this all may not be within the remit of MFD but I don't see the point in moving this when the school fails NSCHOOL and GNG anyway. Delete. –Davey2010Talk 00:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- NSCHOOL and GNG are not required in userspace.
- The content may be suitable for merging somewhere. SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- True they're not but given the article will never see the light of day in articlespace I simply don't see a benefit to keeping, The article only says "it's a primary school in scotland, that it caters for 4 and 13 years of age and that the school operates under the Stranraer local authority." - None of that is worth merging anywhere imho,
- If we really have too then I would support moving to draft as a second option, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 12:54, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
July 18, 2024
edit- Wikipedia:WikiProject Major League Cricket (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)
This is a recently-created, highly niche WikiProject with only two participants. It didn't follow the recommended process for creating a wikiproject by proposing it and gathering a group of interested editors before creation. Unfortunately we know from experience that such narrowly-focused wikiprojects are almost never successful and just end up cluttering projectspace and diluting attention from other, broader and more viable, collaborations in the subject area. Creating a task force of WikiProject Cricket might be an alternative, but again this needs more than a few interested editors to be meaningful. – Joe (talk) 15:01, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete another WikiProject that should have never been created. Catfurball (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - Created out of process, for a subject that is a subset of the subject of an existing project, and so possibly a task force. Robert McClenon (talk) 07:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - It appear that misconceived WikiProjects do not have the enthusiasts that misconceived portals do. Maybe that is because no one thinks that WikiProjects have mystical qualities. Robert McClenon (talk) 07:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Wikiprojects don't have that mystical appeal because they are not "nice" like portals. Portals are "kinda nice". Wikiproject pages are generally ugly.—Alalch E. 21:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, while Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket is relatively active, it has not itself developed many task forces, suggesting a lack of viability to separate Wikprojects. CMD (talk) 10:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete yet another attempt to spin off a WikiProject for a random franchise cricket tournament. In my view, we should be merging all the existing cricket spinoff WikiProjects (IPL, WPL, PSL, LPL etc) into WP:CRIC task forces, not creating more. Joseph2302 (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Joseph2302: That sounds like a good idea. If you want to propose it, there's a straightforward process for merging wikiprojects. – Joe (talk) 07:28, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Appears to be an abandoned draft article (on a topic we already cover) rather than a WikiProject. – Joe (talk) 14:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Catfurball (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - As the nominator says, not a WikiProject If an abandoned draft article, a duplicate. Any unique information in it can be merged into the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 07:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom.—Alalch E. 21:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Userfy to User:Conservbio24cu/Red_Wolf. Seems to be an initial good faith effort of a new editor, the off-chance they come back seems likely to be higher if their initial work is still there for them. CMD (talk) 10:41, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I thought about that too but the creator made almost all their edits in one spree in April and hasn't been back since. Not opposed, though. – Joe (talk) 10:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, it's an off-chance not a good chance. Is a userpage worth a 1% chance of editor retention? Maybe. CMD (talk) 10:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I thought about that too but the creator made almost all their edits in one spree in April and hasn't been back since. Not opposed, though. – Joe (talk) 10:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
July 12, 2024
editThe content of this page was merged here in 2007 after an AfD was closed with disposition to merge the content into Khaled Mashal (mentioned on the talk page here). Unless it was later removed (I haven't checked super thoroughly), that doesn't seem to have ever actually happened. But especially looking at this 17 years later, I'm not sure there's anything worth merging in here. The arguments for this were basically already made in the AfD. And if no one's actually ever going to merge this content, this page has no reason to exist. Kinsio (talk ★ contribs ★ rights) 19:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Kinsio (talk ★ contribs ★ rights) 19:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - This isn't exactly G4, but it is essentially a draft for consideration after the merge. As a draft, it is an expired draft. To the extent that it is something else, it is not something else that needs to be kept. (Events have changed so much for the worse in the region.) Robert McClenon (talk) 19:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. The nom misstates the facts. A move to a talk subpage is not a merge. The AfD was closed as “merge” which is not a “delete” and cannot be used here to delete. If consensus has changed from “merge”, then archive, eg by redirection to the article. Also note that there are no time limits, if anything the AfD close was wrong. I note the closer is eight years inactive. SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC)