Talk:Hundred Years' War, 1337–1360

Sources

I know this was cut out of the main Hundred Years' War article, but I don't know why sources were left off. I've imported the sources from the main article, but I'm just guessing on the sources for this article's text--I didn't write it so I can't say which sources were actually used for it. Having said that, I would say it's almost "required reading" to have read Jonathan Sumption's two books on the Hundred Years War (ISBN 0812216555 and ISBN 0812218019) before posting in this "sub-article" as they cover the period extensively. RobertM525 02:46, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Section cut from original article

The following was copied and pasted from Hundred Years' War because I don't want to lose any information:

Open hostilities broke out as French ships began ravaging coastal settlements on the English Channel and in 1337 Philip reclaimed the Gascon fief, citing feudal law and saying that Edward had broken his oath (a felony) by not attending to the needs and demands of his lord. Edward III responded by saying he was in fact the rightful heir to the French throne, and on All Saints' Day, Henry Burghersh, Bishop of Lincoln, arrived in Paris with the defiance of the king of England. War had been declared.

When the war began, France had a population of fourteen million, whereas England had a population of only two million. Moreover, France was generally considered to have the best-rained knights in the greatest number in Europe.

In the early years of the war, Edward III allied with the nobles of the Low Countries and the burghers of Flanders, but after two campaigns where nothing was achieved, the alliance fell apart in 1340. The payments of subsidies to the German princes and the costs of maintaining an army abroad dragged the English government into bankruptcy, with huge damages to Edward III’s prestige. At sea, France enjoyed supremacy for some time, through the use of Geneose ships and crews. Several towns on the English coast were sacked, some repeatedly. This was a cause of fear and disruption along the English coastline. There was a constant fear through this part of the war that the French would invade. France's sea power led to economic disruptions in England as it cut down on the wool trade to Flanders and the wine trade from Gascony. However, in 1340, while attempting to hinder the English army from landing, the French fleet was almost completely destroyed in the Battle of Sluys. After this, England was able to dominate the English Channel for the rest of the war, preventing French invasions.

In 1341, conflict over the succession to the Duchy of Brittany began the Breton War of Succession, in which Edward backed John of Montfort and Philip backed Charles of Blois, who was initially successful. Action for the next few years focused around a back and forth struggle in Brittany, with the city of Vannes changing hands several times, as well as further campaigns in Gascony with mixed success for both sides.

In July 1346, Edward mounted a major invasion across the Channel, landing in the Cotentin peninsula of Normandy and marching through Normandy. Philip gathered a large army to oppose him, and Edward chose to march northward toward the Low Countries, pillaging as he went, rather than attempt to take and hold territory. Finding himself unable to outmanoeuvre Philip, Edward positioned his forces for battle, and Philip's army attacked him at the famous Battle of Crécy.Until this time Philip had undertaken a strategy that forced the English into retreat when he would not meet in battle on English terms. Although Philip had a numerically superior army and sufficent supply line the English did not. The much larger French army made a series of piecemeal attacks against the expert English and Welsh longbowmen, and all of the attacks were dispersed with heavy losses until the French were forced to retreat. Crécy was a crushing defeat for the French.

Edward proceeded north unopposed and besieged the coastal city of Calais on the English Channel, capturing it in 1347. This became an important strategic location for the English. It allowed the English to keep troops in France safely. In the same year, an English victory against Scotland in the Battle of Neville's Cross led to the capture of David II and greatly reduced the threat from Scotland.

In 1348, the Black Death began to sweep across Europe, preventing England from financing and launching any major offenses. In France, Philip VI died in 1350 and was replaced by his son John II, also known as John the Good.

Sporadic conflicts in Brittany continued, including notable examples of chivalry such as the Battle of the Thirty in 1351, during which 30 French knights from Chateau Josselin called out and defeated 30 English knights. In keeping with tradition, the French ransomed many of the defeated English, including such men as Robert Knolles and Hugh Calveley, who later continued to fight against France more successfully.

After the Black Death had passed and England was able to recover financially, Edward's son, Edward the Black Prince, invaded France from Gascony in 1356, winning a great victory in the Battle of Poitiers, where the English archers repeated the same tactics used at Crécy, and the Gascon noble Captal de Buch led a flanking movement that succeeded in capturing the new Valois king, John II of France, and many of his nobles. John signed a truce with Edward, and in his absence much of the government began to collapse. John's ransom was set to two million écus, but John believed he was worth more than that and insisted that his ransom be raised to four million.

Later that year (1356), the Second Treaty of London was signed, in which the four million écus ransom was guaranteed by having royal members of the Valois family come to London and surrender themselves as hostages while John returned to France to raise his ransom. As part of the treaty, England gained possession of Aquitaine, a large coastal area of southwestern France including the large towns of Poitiers and Bordeaux. As royal hostages, they were given free rein to move about, and once John left for France, the hostages quickly escaped back to France. John, who was "Good" and chivalrous, was horrified that his word and honor had been broken, returned to England, and turned himself in. John eventually died a prisoner in England in 1364 and was given a great chivalrous ceremony and honored as a great man by the English.

The countryside of France at this point began to fall into complete chaos. Brigands ran rampant, indiscriminately pillaging land and killing those who resisted. The countryside became pocked with fortifications, many small and ill-manned. Brigands often simply set fire to them, burned alive those inside and cleared the land of anything of value. Larger towns became refuges for the rural populace. Much of the funds that the French and English crowns wanted to put towards equipping offenses against the brigands (or each other) were instead poured into the fortification and re-fortification of towns.

The brigands were soldiers that found themselves without employment during this period of truce. The war had created professional soldiers whose main skills resided in warfare and lacked employment without the war that had created them raging. These brigands eventually organized themselves into loosely formed armies, which were called companies, that marauded across France. They both pillaged and garisoned mostly in south-eastern France. The English, the French, and the Pope all tried to harness them usually with poor results.

In 1358, a peasant revolt in France called the Jacquerie took place. It was caused in part by the deprivations suffered by the country people during the war and their hatred of the local nobility. Led by Guillaume Kale (Carle or Cale), they joined forces with other villages, and beginning in the area of Beauvais, north of Paris, committed atrocities against the nobles and destroyed many châteaux in the area. All the rebellious groups were defeated later that summer and reprisals followed.

Edward invaded France, hoping to capitalise on the discontent and seize the throne, but although no French army stood against him in the field, he was unable to take Paris or Rheims from the dauphin Charles (later Charles V of France). He negotiated the Treaty of Brétigny which was signed in 1360.

The English also came out of this phase of the war with about half of France's vassal states as their allies, representing the clear advantage of a united England against a generally disunified vassal-filled kingdom of France.

Srnec 21:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

This section has been enhanced since you copied and pasted.Notably the last paragraph.139.168.145.83 12:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Well Done; advise for improvement

I must express how glad I am that this war is being treated separately from the hundred years war, as with all the other wars of the hundred years war. In needs much improving, as only about half the campaigs appear to be covered. These campaigns are available for mentioning from the battle list at the bottom of the hundred years war,and a section in the black prince article; and the rejection of Edwards campiagn in 1355 from Calais and Lancasters many campaigns is quite bad. Nevertheless, a fine start.139.168.145.83 12:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Edwardian War should be the name

That is my POV, as it gives the war character as a separate war from the accepted super-war; it truly is its own war.139.168.145.83 12:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

While that's an oft-used term for this period of the war, I think it should simply redirect here and be mentioned in the opening paragraph. RobertM525 05:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

But people will not rite down in the search bar "Hundred Years' War (1337-1360)"; almost all viewers will be linked here via "Hundred Years' War". So their is no actual harm in giving the war a proper name, as those who visit the article will have more then likely read what "the Edwardian War" is. 203.51.104.25 05:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Images

The article is visually lifeless for such a dynamic war. All the other wars of the hundred years war have images. I dont know how to add images, so I am going to put in my suggestions.

Images for the article in order of greatest importance and VITALITY downwards:

• The picture in Crecy
• The picture in Edward III
• The picture in Poitiers
• The picture in The Black Prince
• A picture of English and allied land thanks to the treaty of Bretigney
• The picture in Sluys
• A picture of Henry Grosmont139.168.145.83 09:03, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

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Article has been improperly retitled - creates a confusing mess re: links and title. Please Fix

This article is supposed to be on the Edwardian Phase of the Hundred Years' War. As such, it was originally titled "Hundred Years' War (1337–1360)". Someone has retitled it "Hundred Years' War (1337–1453)", thereby messing with all the links to it and causing confusion with the major existing article entitled "Hundred Years' War". A new title is in order, as is redirecting existing links, neither of which I know how to do. A new title of "Hundred Years' War - Edwardian Phase (1337-1360)" would seem proper and rectify much confusion. Bron6669 (talk) 10:24, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bron6669 (talk • contribs) 06:26, 29 April 2018 (UTC) 

Done, and see below. Ribbet32 (talk) 00:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 31 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the pages to the proposed titles at this time, per the discussion below; no objection to initiating new move requests to descriptive titles if necessary, as it appears there may be some support for this. Dekimasuよ! 02:09, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

---

• Hundred Years' War (1337–1360) → Edwardian War
• Hundred Years' War (1369–89) → Caroline War
• Hundred Years' War (1415–53) → Lancastrian War

– WP:NATURAL, WP:CONCISE. I realize this may be an uphill battle, but as you can see here, [1] the current naming is confusing- the dating seems incomplete, as the name "Hundred Years War" refers to a period of 1337 to 1453, but the subarticles only cover certain years (in this case, the erroneous move resulted in an error that lasted over one month [2]). However, there are titles for the individual wars that were lumped together under the "Hundred Years War" brand. They are commonly used in the sources to precisely identify the conflicts- Edwardian War, 3,050 sources, Caroline War, 2,650 sources, Lancastrian War, 1,460 sources. Ribbet32 (talk) 00:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose all these new titles are way too opaque for the layperson In ictu oculi (talk) 10:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
  • The redirects and links from Hundred Years' War would obviously all remain. Titles like Mitochondrial fusion seem opaque to the lay person, but we've chosen to educate readers rather than dumb down titles. Ribbet32 (talk) 13:28, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
• What would be the problem with longer, more informative titles such as "Hundred Years' War (1337-1360) - Edwardian War"?Bron6669 (talk) 11:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
  • The mix of hyphens and brackets is outside of Wikipedia convention, and would fail WP:CONCISE. Ribbet32 (talk) 13:28, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
    • how about Hundred Years' War - Edwardian phase as per info box עם ישראל חי (talk) 15:42, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
      • User:AmYisroelChai, User:Bron6669 again, that hyphen stuff is outside Wikipedia norm. If you want to support Edwardian phase of the Hundred Years' War (which would meet WP:NATURAL and would seem more precise than seemingly random and unrecognizable dates) that is your prerogative. Ribbet32 (talk) 03:08, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
        • That title is much more informative and not misleading like the date thing which caused someone to change them and thus created this mess in the first place.Bron6669 (talk) 04:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Unconvinced, excessive CONCISE at the expense of CONSISTENCY and RECOGNISABILITY. Support the underlying intention though, maybe keep trying for better titles. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Please explain the issue with inconsistency if all three articles are moved. Also, the Quasi-War is an under-remembered conflict with a name that doesn't tell you anything about where and when it happened- too excessively concise and unrecognizable? Ribbet32 (talk) 22:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

No map?

This article could do with a map of the situation before/after the Treaty of Bretigny. Best, 81.107.215.246 (talk) 14:08, 11 September 2020 (UTC)