User talk:Abecedare/Archive 18

East India Company bought by an Indian?

I was some of the content was removed from Wiki some time ago. It was to do with an Indian buying the East India Company. And the reason given was its not the same company. I have gone through the website http://www.theeastindiacompany.com/ and searched press release and telegraph website and I do not agree with this. This is certainly the same company who sailed to places including India.

I think this information should be either instated or rephrased to Wiki's Standard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naru6705 (talk • contribs) 10:29, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

East India Company bought by an Indian?

It is true. Just make yourself believe it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.16.154.82 (talk) 10:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the paragraphs you have removed from the article, East India Company, I request you to check the press release of the official website of the EIC. Also you can check Khalis Times, and Hindustan Times for related information. Another website smetimes.tradeindia.com has also published image of Sanjib Mehata with logo of EIC in the background.

Please, refill the content.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.16.154.82 (talk) 10:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Indian reunification

As you requested, I added a rationale for why I reinstated that section. You are welcome to debate, if you so feel necessary. --RaviC (talk) 15:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Edits to Bansuri

Hi Abecedare,

The latest version of the Bansuri article after receiving these edits by an IP user, seems (to me) to have a skewed opinion towards a certain artist family and lacks good phraseology as well. I felt that it is better to request a mod to look into it rather than editing it again myself. Could you please check the edits in question and validate my concerns?

Thanks & Regards

Achint(talk) 05:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Wise administrator, I seek an opinion

This discussion has been going on for three years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:East_Timor#Summary

How does one define a consensus? Has a consensus been reached? I ask that you try to be as objective as possible, answering in a way that will fit all articles, not just this one.

I do not seek you to make a permanent decision and threat to block anyone that disagrees. I do not ask for your vote. I only ask for your analysis on whether a consensus has been reached.

Question 2

What is the default decision (in general, not this article) when there is no consensus. Keep in mind that the current version might be the POV version put in place by POV pushers. Perhaps the most neutrally written version if the dispute is about facts? If about a name, this may be more difficult. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 16:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Bihari lal Afd

An anon and the creator User:Kamaldevjhalli removed the Afd tag, which I initiated. I have restored it, but can you please guide this new user to prove the notability of the article? Please suggest ways to how to prove notability and educate him a little about WP:RS. I am requesting you a third party to do thing, as I educating him may border WP:BITE. Thanks. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 16:14, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Indian Expressways

Hi Abecedare, I wanted to bring it to your attention that User:KuwarOnline and I are having some disagreements on the Indian Expressways article. I provided a citation from the CIA World Factbook stating that the total length of the network is 200km but Kuwar seems to think this figure is out of date and is closer to 400km. While I'm fairly certain that the figure needs to be updated, I'm not a fan of removing a cited reliable source and replacing it with conjecture. In addition the 200km figure is also supported by the NHAI and I think that until one of these authorities decides to update the figure, the 200km length should be retained. I was just wondering if you could take a look at the article and let me know what you think. Thanks, Vedant (talk) 21:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Abecedare, What User:Vedant saying that we need to keep information that is 4 year old. If you see the article Indian Expressways there are almost 15 expressways already completed and has proper citations and 13 of them has own article. Also i have added table and total length for easy comparison. If article it self has total length which is backed by its links/references still we need to have other references? to prove claim? As per my knowledge we write summery/introduction of article in lead section. If article it self says that its more than 500km then why need to show 200km in lead section? why need to show 4 year old information even if current updated information is available with proper article link and references. It just that CIA world factbook or NHAI are not updating information so we should not update Wikipedia articles? Should we wait for them or should we use current available references/links to update. Please correct me if I am wrong and also this discussion result will base for me to update/contribute to Wikipedia article from now onwards. KuwarOnline (talk) 18:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

The following is a comment I posted on User:HJ Mitchell's talk page

If I may explain myself, I believe I clearly stated to User:KuwarOnline that I understood his concerns but that there exist several credible sources (the CIA World Factbook and the NHAI website) that both state the country has only 200km of expressways. I'm aware that the NHAI website is out of date and that the CIA World Factbook simply took the information from the NHAI website. I'm also aware that given the fact that numerous projects are underway/have been completed, this number is most likely much higher. However, since a citation backing that claim up doesn't exist yet, it would be improper to remove a cited source and then insert a new number not backed up by any source. Infact, I'll even go a step further and say that I personally believe the figure to be much higher but I don't think its right to update such an important figure without providing a source as verifiability is one of the pillars Wikipedia is built on. Perhaps also of note is that User:Arjun024 also agrees with me on the matter. I have no objection to Kuwar's other productive edits but I think that he is incorrect in this case. Vedant (talk) 21:02, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Editing from 117.204.112.0/20 has been disabled by Abecedare for the following reason(s):

Hello

I happen to be a Malayalam wiki user since 2007 and have a moderate number of quality edits to my credit; also more than 20 photographs submitted by me were featured in the ml. main page. I do visit en.wiki just to copy a taxo-box or a photograph (medicinal plants being my interest). Moreover I am not a computer expert and the charge surprised me though i did not figure it out :) I recently shifted my OS to Ubuntu has that got something to do with it? Request you to revert the block. Regards ml:User:arayilpdas
Arayilpdas (talk) 02:33, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

• no probs while logged in! regards Arayilpdas (talk) 09:27, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. There has been much vandalism and POV editing from that IP range. Wholesale blanking without a reason why, POV insertion('x movie is the best';,'insertion of honorific titles against WP:HONORIFIC, 'x actor is the best', the list goes on). I would advise against unblocking that IP, abec.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 23:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Arayilpdas. Abecedare (talk) 03:29, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

East Indians

Hello, I tried to find the relevant topic on East Indians of Bombay which has been tagged for copyrights violation. As far as I remember it was myself who helped put up this page when i was putting up the community website www.east-indians.com Most Information on this website is free, as it is information of the community. if there is any way i can assist that the information of the East Indian Community remain on wikipedia, do let me know. Prem Moraes (talk) 19:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC) Prem Prem Moraes (talk) 19:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Prem, I am not sure which exact article on wikipedia you are referring to (East Indians and East India people don't have any copyright violation notice). If you can specify that, I can take a look and we can surely resolve the copyright issue so that it is consistent with wikipedia policies and respects the original content creator's rights. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 03:29, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Ravana

Two or more anon's are engrossed in an edit war from 29 may trying to prove Ravana as a historical emperor (a fringe theory). One of whom adds Ravana is a Hela (Sinhalese) emperor, another reverts it to Tamil emperor. Can you please take a look? Does this merit protection. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 08:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I have semi-protected the page for a month. However I haven't had the time to check the validity of all the changes made since your last edit (diff). Can you please review these changes and see if any are worth retaining ? Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 03:17, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Some refs were removed, that I have restored. Removed "He is of non Aryan or non Dravidian Hela descent." (Part of POV battle of Ravana being Hela / Tamil).--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 03:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Abecedare (talk) 04:11, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Hindu Studies

Perhaps you should take a look at this article. I noted quite a bit of OR and incorrect info, fixed some inaccuracies with available ref, even the article name seems to be inappropriate, perhaps should be Controversies and insider-outsider problem in Hindu studies in American academia in the past 20 years. Sort of bored now to look at this now. --TheMandarin (talk) 05:20, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Quick comment after a brief glance at the article: I don't think the content of the article is necessarily illegitimate on the whole (though your individual points on the talk page seem to be valid). Rather the central problem is that the article covers only a narrow aspect of the subject related to criticism and controversies in detail, and thus ends up presenting a distorted/POV picture. Instead of trying to remedy this deficiency by changing the title to fit the content (which won't solve the coverage problem, only legitimize it), I think the article should be expanded to present the ~2 century history of Hindu studies (i.e., study of Hinduism as an academic subject) with an outline of the major players, trends and developments. Sometime back (when I started the, yet incomplete, work on writing up the article on W. Norman Brown) I had read a few good papers that would cover aspects of this topic:

Brown, W. Norman, South Asia Studies: A History, Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, Vol. 356, The Non-Western World in Higher Education (Nov., 1964), pp. 54-62 (covers 1st century of Hindu studies in America)

Staal, Frits, What is happening in classical Indology: a review article The Journal of Asian Studies, Vol. 41, No. 2 (Feb., 1982), pp. 269-291 (a status report of Indological studies around 1980 with some background history; includes coverage of secular, Buddhism and related topics besides Hindu studies)

I am sure that, if one looks, one could find equally good references that cover the early German and British periods of Hindu studies (which should form the bulk of the article) as well as its development in post-Independence India (eg, persons and works related to BORC, VISIS etc). The criticisms and controversies about past and present prejudice are a valid topic to cover but should be presented in context, and will form only the tail of a well-developed article.

I'll be short of time till at least September but can help at the margins if someone takes up the task of expanding this article. At a minimum, I can email the above-mentioned articles and search for others if someone volunteers to read and use them. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 06:08, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Very helpful points ( as usual ). Thanks! Will start working on it from next month or so, when I become relatively free. --TheMandarin (talk) 11:08, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Request to unprotect Ahle Sunnat Wal Jama'at

Page Ahle Sunnat Wal Jama'at was protected by you on 11 November 2009. I would like to request it to be unprotected as in its current form (redirect to Barelvi) the page is highly POV. Either the page should redirect to the more general Sunni Islam, or the page should explain the name dispute (if there are enough secondary sources to do so), or the page should be a disambiguation page, or it should be deleted. It should not be allowed to remain in its current POV form. Please note that there are other variants of the same name which redirect elsewhere, namely: Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat and Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat (sectarian organization). Thanks! --Urduboy (talk) 11:00, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I have unprotected the page as you requested.

Frankly, I don't know enough about the topic to judge what is the best target for the redirect. You can be bold and implement the suggested solution you think best. In case the original dispute recurs or there is any other objection, the issue can be discussed on the article talk page to see where consensus lies. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 11:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Pizza effect

Hi, just something to look at when you're bored. During one of my late-night "let me google for a phrase" obsessive spurts, I created Pizza effect, a phrase about something that's everywhere if you look for it, but which I'm unable to describe except through quoting too many examples, and now I'm not even sure ought to be on Wikipedia. What do you think? Can you suggest categories, or rewriting, or deletion? :-) Shreevatsa (talk) 21:44, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Very interesting! I hadn't heard (or at least "noticed") the term before but, as you say, it is indeed used all over the place. Given its 40 years of use by various authors I don't think it is a neologism anymore, and your current article already establishes sufficient notability. By the way, some of the generic (possibly non-RS) sources I saw online talked about how the reputation of the reimport is enhanced through the attention paid to it by non-natives. Is this feature of the phenomenon mentioned in any of the scholarly sources you have seen ? If so it may be worth including.

Now that I have been primed to notice the term/phenomenon, I am sure I'll see it in places I would have missed before. Nice creation! Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 23:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes indeed -- pointing out that feature was the original usage, and the first few examples (Ray's films, some gurus, etc). Maybe it needs to be written more clearly, while avoiding being as critical as Agehananda Bharati was of all modern gurus (starting with Vivekananda) :-) Shreevatsa (talk) 14:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Request opinion

Can u pls weigh in with your opinion at Talk:Vegetarianism_and_religion#Explanation_for_my_edit.. The issue in there now is about this article. Thank you for your time. Arjun^codename024 13:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I looked at it and I think it's clear now, BTW; you don't have to look :-) Shreevatsa (talk) 16:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Hemant Karkare

Hi Abecedare. If you have a few spare moments, could you take a look at the Hemant Karkare article, particularly at the controversies section (you'll have to look in the history for that since I've protected a version that has no controversy). There is also a discussion on this article on my talk page and various threads on WP:RSN, WP:WQA, and WP:ANI. Your opinion would be helpful. Regards. --RegentsPark (talk) 23:12, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject India Newsletter Volume V, Issue no. 1 - (June 2010)

Project News WP:IND Newsletter is back! It's been nearly a year since the last edition, but we hope to bring out issues on a more regular basis now. The India Wikiproject was set up to increasing coverage of India-related topics on Wikipedia, and over the past few months the focus has been on improving article quality. A number of the project's featured articles underwent featured article reviews over the past year. Of these, Darjeeling and Flag of India survived the review process, while the rest were demoted. During the same period, Gangtok, Harbhajan Singh, Darjeeling and Mysore were featured on the main page respectively on August 20, September 17, November 6 and December 29, 2009. Meanwhile, articles on topics as diverse as Political history of Mysore and Coorg (1565–1760), Marwari horse and Iravan were promoted as featured articles, and respectively appeared on the main page on March 25, May 17 and May 28, 2010. Consequently, the number of FA-class articles under the project's scope dropped from 67 in August 2009 to 63 in June 2010. The number of good articles, however, saw a more than 40% increase, from 91 to 130 during the same period, while the number of featured lists saw a 33% increase from 12 to 16. Due to the recent policy changes regarding unreferenced Biographies of Living People (BLPs), an effort was started in January 2010 to source all unreferenced BLPs coming under Wikiproject India. 1200 such articles were identified initially and more were added to the list later. Due to the sourcing effort, the number of Indian unreferenced BLPs is down to 565 currently. During February-April 2010, There was a large scale disruption of Kerala related articles by a Thrissur based IP vandal. Editing from a dynamic IP BSNL connection, the vandal changed dates of birth, death and ages of a number of Malayalam and Tamil film actors. Later he added a few international biographies to his list. He also marked some living people like Arvind Swamy as dead. A month long range block was imposed on his IP range two times and each time he came back to vandalise dates once the block expired. Currently the range has been blocked for three months till September 11, 2010. What's New? Three members of the project, Abecedare, Tinu Cherian and SpacemanSpiff received their sysop mops in October-December 2009. Congratulations! This picture, shot in India, won the Commons:Picture of the Year contest 2009. Translations of the description in Indian languages are solicited. Wikipedians in Bangalore have been organising periodic meetups over the past year, in collaboration with the Centre for Internet and Society. The next meetup is scheduled for July 18, 2010. Indian and other Wikipedians from all Wikipedias in various languages are welcome to attend.

Current proposals and discussions Please add Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics to your watchlist in order to stay updated with the latest discussions regarding various aspects of the project. A discussion is underway here to reach a consensus regarding the use of Indian number names (lakh, crore etc.) in Wikipedia articles. Please participate and add your comments. Join the effort to source and save unreferenced Indian BLPs. Some unintended vandalism is going on at the Assamese Wikipedia by the sole active editor. This is a request for Assamese-conversant Wikipedians to help resolve the issue. A discussion is in progress here in order to determine whether non-Western (including Indian) forms of classical music should be referred to by the nomenclature of art music instead of classical music. Please participate and add your comments. Watchlist the Articles for Deletions page for India related discussions. Opinions from more Indian Wikipedians are required in many of the discussions. The World Classical Tamil Conference 2010 is at present underway in Coimbatore, and the Tamil Wikipedia is actively involved at the event. A detailed report will follow in the next issue. Wikimania 2010 is happening in Poland from July 7-11. Indian Wikipedians attending include Gurubrahma, Shiju Alex, Ravidreams , Santhosh Thottingal, Tinu Cherian, WMF Board member Bishakha Datta and Advisory Board member Achal Prabala. We wish them all the best! More on their experiences in the next issue. If you've just joined, add your name to the Members section of WikiProject India. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy! Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue (Issue 2 – (July 2010)). Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Looking forward toward more contributions from you! Complete To Do List Complete To Do List India-related tasks | Indian noticeboard Requests: Counterfeiting of currency notes in India, Swami Bhaskaranand Saraswati, Akhand Pratap Singh, Ravindra Gujjula Irrigation in India, Asura (band), Asian Variety Show, Cultural liberalism in India, India Export Tax, India Import Tax, Grand Hyatt Hotel, Mumbai, More... NPOV: Greater Nepal Rajneesh, Ranjit Lal Jetley Hedgewar, Puttanna Kanagal, Bride burning, Sonia Gandhi More... Wikify: Railway stations, Mahavidwan R. Raghava Iyengar, Silk in the Indian subcontinent, IDBI Bank More... Cleanup: articles on castes, Rampur, Tav-Prasad Savaiye, Shipping Corporation of India, Velama, Bangaru Adigalar, Medical college (India), More... Merge: Raghava Rama,Sammar Bahisht,Sathya Sai Baba movement,More... Expand: Prime Minister of India, Krishna district, List of railway stations in India, Swaraj, Ashoka Kumar Thakur vs. Union of India (Supreme Court Case), Barak Missile Deal Scandal, 14th Lok Sabha, Adithada, Ali Sardar Jafri, Bandhani work, Bhaiband, But Marma Atti, Chikan (embroidery), China Town, Kolkata, Dr. Rahi Masoom Raza, Energy policy of India, Essar Shipping, Fair use, Hinduism in India, Imperial Bank, Inbuan Wrestling, Integral humanism, Iran-India relations, Islam in India, Arjuna award, Sunil Mittal, Save Indian Family, Anjana Sukhani, Rajendra K. Pachauri More... Stubs: Anand Math, Andhra Bank, A R Antule, Arjuna award, Army of India, Bapudeva Sastri, Bombay Dyeing, Indian Copyright Act, Marimallappa, Mumbai Skywalk, More... Translate: Telugu Wikipedia articles, Marathi Wikipedia articles, Hindi Wikipedia articles, Sanskrit Wikipedia articles, Tamil Wikipedia articles Kannada Wikipedia articles Collaborate: Collaborations of the Month, Notice board, Category Adoptions To do, Version 1.0 assesment, India Portal, Life in India, India quick links Indian Wikipedians, More... Requested images: Ilaiyaraaja, M. S. Subbulakshmi, R. K. Narayan, Free image of Aarti Chhabria Other requests: Add maps from WikiProject India Maps to articles of Indian regions found at List of regions in India Create links/categories to {{Elections in India}} template Signed... SBC-YPR (Editor) Sodabottle (Editor) Tinu Cherian (Distributor)

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Email

You have a new one.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 20:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

VPC

— raekyT 00:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

India International Friendship Society

The notability discussion was already resolved and a decision taken by Ged UK. However, you are correct when you write that there is too little information on the workings of the society. I have added a new para addressing this issue, but shall hunt around for more sources. Kochank (talk) 07:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can see, Ged UK only weighed in on the speedy deletion nomination of the article. Is there some other discussion which I have overlooked ?

I saw your recent edits and added references to the page, and while I appreciate your efforts to improve the article, unfortunately your edits seem to fall afoul of wikipedia's verifiability, no original research and reliable sourcing policies. However before we attempt to address those issues, we should determine if the article is worth retaining at all. For that we need to judge if the subject meets wikipedia's notability guidelines (in particular, see WP:ORG). In my judgment since there seems to be no significant coverage of IIFS in any independent and reliable source, it fails the test. But if you believe otherwise, we can start an article for deletion discussion so that other editors can chime in. Let me know what you think. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 18:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Before we start a discussion on abstract principles, let's look at the facts. I grant that the IIFS itself is little known. But it's awards are. They are considered important. You only have to google to find heaps of sites testifying to this. Also have a look at the recipients (I gather that you're Indian, and so should be able to judge how extremely prominent some of them are; one was even the interim President of India). I don't think, therefore, that we need discuss the issue of notability of the awards. They are also an important factor for external relations of India. The question is, however, how to protray this properly, as the organisation presenting them is rather amorphous and operates behind the scenes, leaving hardly any paper or electronic trail. I have thought about starting an article on "Non-governmental prominent Indian awards", and subsuming this and various other non-governmental, but important Indian award articles on Wikipedia (with redirects). That would be a general cleanup and, at the same time, concentrate this important aspect of Indian external (and also internal) relations in one spot. However, I'm so busy at present that I just don't have the time for this task right now. But I do plan to come back to that, so maybe we should leave the present argument for that time without getting each other's backs up and/or starting a discussion which in my opinion needlessly leads to hot blood. In the meantime, maybe you could suggest an appropriate heading for the proposed article, if you find the one I have given above too cumbersome. Kochank (talk) 19:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

P.S.: Could you please notify me somehow if you answer to this?Kochank (talk) 19:19, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The notability of an award cannot be judged by the prominence of its recipients! In fact, scammers like American Biographical Institute, International Institute of Success Awarenes, United Cultural Convention rely on exactly this common fallacy to make money. The usual modus operandi is as follows:

• Give unsolicited awards to some genuinely notable persons and publicize these through press-releases and websites (It takes a few hours of work to email out these awards to, say, all living heads of states, Nobel Laurette, Oscar winners etc).
• That done, some not-so-prominent persons are invited to accept some laughably hyperbolic titles (eg, Jewel of India, Excellence Award, Lifetime Achievement Award, Nobel Contributions Prize, Who who of Quantum Mechanics etc) on payment of a small fee. The list of the latter group of awardees is never publicized, though those persons are free to bulk up their CVs with such meaningless titles.
• Some of the bigger players in the field even organize award ceremonies for selected awardees, which the awardees and local politicians are only too eager to grace. Some of these social gatherings may even be mentioned in the society pages/columns of local newspapers and gossip rags.

I myself have received invitations from some of these organizations to be included in their Who's Who listing etc (on payment of, ahem, minor publication expenses/membership fee) and so know how little they are worth (initially I was flattered by some of these invites, but then received some that were not even relevant to my field of work, except for some trivial "keyword intersection"!)

To be fair, I am not yet certain that IIFS is indeed such an award mill. Can you specify why you think their awards are notable ? Has any independent source (ie, besides the awarding organization and the recipients) covered the awards or IFSI ? FWIW, I have emailed some friends who may be aware of the organization and hope to hear back from them in a few hours (of course, such testimonial evidence is not of much value on wikipedia, but it will help me judge whether I should devote more efforts trying to search for reliable sources to establish notability, or simply start an AFD). Abecedare (talk) 19:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Give me credit for not being so naive as not to know of organisations such as the ones you have written about, or for not having been similarly solicited. The problem is that there is no hard and fast rule for establishing bona fides. There are, also in the West, many prizes which are considered honourable and prestigious by some segments of society, whereas others debunk them (literary prizes, film prizes, TV prizes etc. etc.). How to extablish objective criteria then? Well, one is the association of really prominent people. In this case, for instance, the awards are presented inter alia by members of the House of Lords in the UK, judges of higher courts of the UK, or ex-governors of Indian states. Those are really high-up prominent people, not run-of-the-mill cheap politicos who'd do anything for some publicity. If such people are associated with an organisation, that speaks for seriousness. Of course, one may still quibble. Maybe it just boils down to personal feelings. I am getting more and more convinced that I should go ahead with the idea of creating one single article subsuming this whole conglomerate of similar prizes. That would solve the problem once and for all. But then it makes no sense to waste time in debating over technicalities of individual articles. So my suggestion is as above: let the matter rest for now. A few weeks will not harm anyone. Kochank (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

As far as wikipedia is concerned the only relevant criterion for the article is WP:ORG. Do you believe IIFS meets that criterion of notability ? Abecedare (talk) 20:58, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Apropos the on-going talk in respect of interpolations in Bhagvad-Gita

Dear Sir: I do realize that it takes time to formulate Wikipedia's stance on the interpolations in Bhagvad-Gita in which you have taken a personal interest. Meanwhile, I would like to put forth the following for your consideration. As you can gather from the Gita page, all the references cited and the links provided therein are for the 700-verse texts and that denies the readers an opportunity to access some work or the other sans interpolations though the fact of their being was established by many a scholar including Otto Rudolph as your yourself had discovered. I am pleased to inform you that my 591-verse 'Bhagvad-Gita: treatise of self-help'sans 110 interpolations is accessible at Vedanta Spiritual Library in HTML text(links -http://www.celextel.org/bhagavadgita/bhagvadgitatreatiseofselfhelp.htm and http://www.shastras.com/bhagavadgita/bhagvadgitatreatiseofselfhelp.htm. and gatewayforindia.com (link - http://gatewayforindia.com/geeta/geeta.htm (audio and HTML text). I hope you would see the desirability of providing the opportunity to the readers to appreciate how the Gita sounds and reads without 110 interpolations by providing linkage to my work through your Bhagvad-Gita page. Regards, BS Murthy (talk) 16:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC) BS Murthy

Dear sir: You may like to note that in the Bhagvad-Gita page, it is a case of repetitive references to the same author or source all over. Under the head of 'Notes', A.C. Bhakthivedanta Swamy Prabhupada's Gita figures 17 times while Nikhilananda Swamy's 4 times, Sri Aurobindo's 2 times etc. Under the 'references' section, Eswaran Eknath's Gita is referred to 4 times. As these are but samples of the repetitive character of the page construct, you may agree that there is a need to trim the content to accommodate the works of others, such as mine, to let readers have varied view-points leading to a broader perspective of the Gita. Regards, BS Murthy (talk) 05:41, 10 August 2010 (UTC) BS Murthy

Sorry for the delayed response. Have been busy offline and hence my activity here has been on a simmer. Will take a look at the BG page, and our earlier discussion on the issue, by this weekend and get back to you. Thanks for your patience! Abecedare (talk) 03:42, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Dear Sir: Glad to know that you would have a re-look at the BG page. You may like to note my comments in the BG talk page pertaining to the paintings therein being not of the period ones. I have a commissioned sketch for my work and if you please let me have your mail Id I would forward it to you. Alternately, you may please visit the page 'Essence of Gita by BS Murthy' at Ham Radio India website by Vu2FD to see the picture. BS Murthy (talk) 08:41, 19 August 2010 (UTC) BS Murthy

You're back

hooray! YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 08:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Good to see the old hands still around!

Expect to be busy offline till the end of the year, but hopefully will be able to maintain some discipline this time and not swing between periods when I check my watchlist incessantly, and periods of complete absence. Lets see how that resolution works out. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 18:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Hooray from me too! Great to see you back. [If the discipline works for you, let me know; I've been struggling with it. :-)] Shreevatsa (talk) 20:09, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

It would have been working, if I hadn't penned this reply. Catch 22. Abecedare (talk) 20:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, arrived just in time for the new photo poll YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Must have been premonition. Look forward to the weekend diversion. Abecedare (talk) 03:41, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Dewan357

Hi, this is Dewan357! You gave me a standard offer six months ago. September is comming is couple of days and this is when you said i will be unblocked. Thank you (74.102.103.191 (talk) 13:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC))

British Commonwealth

Whilst I agree with your edit, (and your statements on the talk page), I was wondering if you realised that the style of the lead paragraph is consistent across List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients, and I was wondering if you were planning to change all of the other articles? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 00:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Good point. I didn't realize that.

I wouldn't mind making the change across all VC-recipient articles, but before I do that it would be prudent to discuss this at some central location, so that the case doesn't need to be argued across dozens of talk pages. Do you know what would be a good place to propose this change and hear out any possible objections, or alternate suggestions ? Is there a project co-ordinating these kinds of articles ? Abecedare (talk) 01:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Again, I agree with your summary/assessment/conclusion(s).

Do you know what would be a good place to propose this change and hear out any possible objections, or alternate suggestions ?

Short answer: Yes. Longer answer. You have a number of options. In the first instance, probably the OzMilHist group.

Is there a project co-ordinating these kinds of articles ? - Yes. However, I think they recently changed their name, so I'm not sure if the following is current:

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Australian military history task force

New name: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force

If you would like some one-on-one advice before jumping in, User talk:AustralianRupert and User talk:Ian Rose are ALWAYS polite, helpful, and unbiased.

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

(And by-the-way: International: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history)

The era in which the award was made to an individual might have some bearing on the wording chosen. It's only in the last 20 years that Canada, Australia and New Zealand created their own versions of the VC, and I'm far from clear what the picture is in some fo the smaller Commonwealth countries even now, a lot of the Caribbean countries certainly now have separate civil honours systems, but since their armed forces are very small, I don't know if they've bothered to do much with decorations. The problem is coming up with something accurate enough, but not too lengthy, amybe jsut change it to "many Commonwealth armed forces" or something. David Underdown (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

(Welcome back!) I don't mean to quibble (ok, I do!) but the substitution of British Commonwealth for Commonwealth of Nations is merely cosmetic. The link heads over to the latter article and the casual reader will be left with the impression that the VC can be awarded to citizens of any member of the Commonwealth of Nations. Just a thought. --RegentsPark (talk) 15:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well no, because as the article explains, British Commonwealth is the former title, and up to the point at which the name changed, the VC was the highest honour in all Commonwealth countries. It's a narrow distinction, but it is there. David Underdown (talk) 16:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. I think David "hit the nail on the head" when he said: "The problem is coming up with something accurate enough, but not too lengthy." I agree. Unfortunately, both "accurate enough" and "not too lengthy" are both (ill-defined) subjective measures ... Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 16:05, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I guess the wording is fine given that the article is about an australian recipient, but it is less than clear. For example, it says "can be awarded" (note the tense) and then includes the historical British Commonwealth. It excludes other historical entities that have been awarded the VC - the various parts of the British empire that were not a part of the British Commonwealth. The casual reader would not have to be overly careless in concluding that citizens of commonwealth nations can be awarded the VC. Just a thought - and now I'll slink off into the warm afternoon! --RegentsPark (talk) 18:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

My suggestion is that perhaps the wording could be more specific. For instance in this case, maybe this might work: "...the Victoria Cross, the highest decoration for gallantry "in the face of the enemy" that could be awarded to members of the Australian military at the time". This would demonstrate that it was the highest award that the subject could receive (at that time), but because the Victoria Cross of Australia is technically a different award, that it is no longer so. This approach would possibly work (if tweaked) for most recipients, British, NZ, Canadian, Indians, etc. by substituting the correct nationalities and being very specific. Just a thought. AustralianRupert (talk) 06:43, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

That certainly complies with David's "something accurate enough, but not too lengthy." To me, it sounds like a good alternative. Thanks "Rupert". Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:19, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but on the other hand, I think part of the opint of the current wording is showing that it wasn't a solely Australian/British/Canadian etc award. David Underdown (talk) 11:29, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. Yet another good point.

OK. That "simple solution" only solves some of the problem.

Come on David, please supply us with a robust solution!! ( ;-) (And the answer is "42".) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:35, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, all. I'll think it over and add my 2c to the discussion later today (perhaps, ~12 hours). In the meantime feel free to add/discuss alternate wordings here. We should also check out how contemporary sources address the issue. More later. Abecedare (talk) 16:48, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Kolkata and Ahmedabad Airports

Can you protect the Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport and Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose International Airport pages so that no IPs can edit it? because random IPs are adding New York-JFK and London-Heathrow on the Kolkata Airport page when passengers have to transit at Delhi and random IPs are also removing the discontinuation dates of Newark and Frankfurt from Ahmedabad Airport page and are also adding London. Ahmedabad passengers have to transit at Mumbai to take AI 131 to London. Thanks (Kshitij85 (talk) 04:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC))

I have protected the pages as you requested. Please take a look at the notes I left at the two talkpages - I don't know what the wiki-protocol is for including/excluding flights with transition, stop-overs etc, so it may be worth hammering it out on the talk page. Hopefully the protection will encourage the IP editors to discuss the issue there. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 05:05, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Cheers. (Kshitij85 (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC))

A request

I have a request, can you please delete everything I have in the view history here, here, here and here, and there's quite a lot things. I'm very sorry for that and I do not want that to be there. If you could just delete it or completely erase the view history, I would be very grateful to you. Thank you. Corey.7.11.1992 11:17, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Survey on gender

Hi! I'm Liria Veronesi (User:Akoha77) and, together with Paolo Massa (User:Phauly), I'm starting an empirical research on "Gender and votes in requests for adminship". For this reason, we need to know the gender of Wikipedians who were candidated to become admins.

We tried looking for the templates User:UBX/male and User:UBX/female but only 4 admins use it. We also used the API for getting the gender field in the profile but, out of 1744 admins, only around 400 have filled this field. But we would benefit from a larger coverage, i.e. possibly knowing the gender of 100% of candidates.

So, after asking for advice to 3 admins and receiving 2 positive replies (1 and 2), we decided to try to ask directly to Wikipedians.

Thus, would you be so kind to write your gender [Male / Female / Other], together with a text comment if you want, on my talk page at User_talk:Akoha77? If you prefer to send me this information privately, you can send me an email, the information will be kept confidential and never shared.

Thanks! Akoha77 (talk) 12:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Overdue amendments to the Bhagvad-Gita page

Dear Mr. Abacedere: It is clear that you do see the need to amend the Gita page and there are others who share the same view. What is more, you did express your intent to bring about the needed changes. Hope you would like to prioritize the same. Regards, BS Murthy (talk) 17:39, 18 September 2010 (UTC) BS Murthy

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Juwan Howard/archive2

As a reviewer at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Michael Jordan, I thought you might consider commenting at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Juwan Howard/archive2.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:32, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

?

Where art thou, Abecedarian? You left us in a pickle, in a jar full of pickles! Drmies (talk) 04:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Abecedare. You have new messages at Talk:Akbar.
Message added SBC-YPR (talk) 19:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

My response

Apropos your message, The issue is that when Wikipedia proclaims to be "a free-content encyclopedia project based on an openly editable model", free for all to edit "and anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles", and Wikipedia is made available in India with this assertion and it publishes articles like inter alia Hindutash, Sanju Pass , Aksai Chin, Kashmir, or Jammu and Kashmir which pertain to the territorial integrity of India and are all biased and prejudiced against India and detrimental to her territorial integrity, I cannot but edit the said articles not withstanding the fact that I am blocked on the basis of sweeping unsubstantiated allegations. I wouldn’t bother about these articles had Wikipedia not been proclaimed to be a free to edit encyclopedia. It is as simple as that!

You blocked me at the instance of Fowler&fowler, RegentsPark and YellowMonkey with out substantiating your allegation that I was causing disruption in spite of my various attempts to make you substantiate. I literally got my fingers burnt in my endeavour to get you to substantiate your allegations! Now you are most shamelessly again repeating your baseless unsubstantiated allegations! Do not pretend that you are not aware that Toddst1 has cantankerously blocked my ability to even edit my own discussion page! Be sure that if eventually , I am unblocked, It will only be after my stance and assertions are vindicated and punitive action is taken against inter alia yourself, YellowMonkey , RegentsPark and Fowler&fowler for their substantiated disruptive conduct! Hindutashravi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.4.244 (talk) 18:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject India Newsletter Volume V, Issue no. 2 - November 2010

English WikiProject News After a missed issue, the WP:IND newsletter is back on track to being a regular bimonthly feature. The Indian WikiProject has seen plenty of online and off-line action, both in English as well as other Indian languages, and we now have a bigger, better format that intends to feature content and news from the English as well as other Indian language Wikipedias. Reaching out to Indians has been the theme of the Indian Wikiproject over the past couple of months, aiming to involve a greater number of Indians in editing both the English and Indian language Wikipedias. To this end, efforts to set up the Indian chapter of Wikimedia have moved into their final stages, and registration of the society is currently pending. An effort is underway to push for "WikiMarathons" at meetups, where attendees will be encouraged to edit the English and/or Indian language Wikipedias. This is intended to popularise Wikipedia editing among the general public. In addition, a bot to post DYK's from the Indian Wikiproject to Twitter was created and launched by User:Logicwiki. What's New? Regrettably, the number of Featured Articles has dropped from 63 in June to 58 at the end of October 2010. Several FAs came up for review and were delisted, while Fundamental Rights, Directive Principles and Fundamental Duties of India was saved. Meanwhile, Chalukya Dynasty appeared on the main page on July 9, 2010. Hearteningly, the number of Good Articles increased from 130 to 136 during the same period, while the number of Featured Lists remained constant at 16. The source code for the Article Alert Bot is now available and the bot itself is expected to be up and running very shortly. This means that article alerts for the Indian Wikiproject will again be available, enabling editors to easily keep track of developments in respect of reviews, nominations, deletions etc. The date change vandal mentioned briefly in the previous issue made a reappearance when the range block on his IP range expired in September. Consequently the block was extended till September 2011. In October there was a heated discussion in the India project noticeboard regarding the copyright status of the Indian party symbols. The discussion was triggered by the deletion of Wiki San Roze's party symbol images by Hammersoft as copyright violations. No resolution was reached, partly because of our inability to explain to Hammersoft how election symbols in India differ from party logos. Comments are requested from anyone with a background in Indian copyright law to clarify this issue. Complete To Do List Complete To Do List India-related tasks | Indian noticeboard Requests: Sibichen K Mathew, Dominic Emmanuel, AK Merchant, Counterfeiting of currency notes in India, Akhand Pratap Singh, Asura (band), Asian Variety Show, Cultural liberalism in India, India Export Tax, India Import Tax, More... NPOV: Greater Nepal Rajneesh, Ranjit Lal Jetley Hedgewar, Puttanna Kanagal, Bride burning, Sonia Gandhi More... Wikify: Railway stations, Mahavidwan R. Raghava Iyengar, Silk in the Indian subcontinent, IDBI Bank More... Cleanup: , Rampur, Tav-Prasad Savaiye, Shipping Corporation of India, Velama, Medical college (India), All India Radio, More... Merge: Raghava Rama, Sammar Bahisht, Sathya Sai Baba movement,More... Expand: Prime Minister of India, Krishna district, List of railway stations in India, Swaraj, Ashoka Kumar Thakur vs. Union of India (Supreme Court Case), Barak Missile Deal Scandal, 14th Lok Sabha, Adithada, Ali Sardar Jafri, Bandhani work, Bhaiband, Chikan (embroidery), China Town, Kolkata, Rahi Masoom Raza, Energy policy of India, Essar Shipping, Fair use, Hinduism in India, Imperial Bank, Inbuan Wrestling, Iran-India relations, Islam in India, Arjuna award, Sunil Mittal, Save Indian Family, Anjana Sukhani, Rajendra K. Pachauri, More... Stubs: Anand Math, A R Antule, Arjuna award, Army of India, Bapudeva Sastri, Bombay Dyeing, Indian Copyright Act, Marimallappa, Mumbai Skywalk, More... Translate: Bhojpuri Wikipedia articles, Maithili Wikipedia articles, Telugu Wikipedia articles, Marathi Wikipedia articles, Hindi Wikipedia articles, Sanskrit Wikipedia articles, Tamil Wikipedia articles Kannada Wikipedia articles Collaborate: Collaborations of the Month, Notice board, Category Adoptions To do, Version 1.0 assessment, India Portal, Life in India, India quick links Indian Wikipedians, More... Requested images: Ilaiyaraaja, M. S. Subbulakshmi, R. K. Narayan, Free image of Aarti Chhabria Other requests: Add maps from WikiProject India Maps to articles of Indian regions found at List of regions in India Create links/categories to {{Elections in India}} template

News from Indian-language Wikipedias The Bengali Wikisource, which contains the literary works of many prominent writers of Bengali language including Rabindranath Tagore, has crossed the 5,000 pages milestone. According to List of Wikisource page, Bengali Wikisource is now at rank 21 among 56 Wikisource based on number of content pages. The Tamil Wikipedia stall at the World Classical Tamil Conference 2010 in Coimbatore in June 2010. The uploading of Tamil technical words donated by Tamil Virtual University to the Tamil Wiktionary was completed in October. The words were donated by the Government of Tamil Nadu due to lobbying efforts by Tamil Wikipedians during the runup to the World Classical Tamil Conference 2010 (WCTC) in June. Nearly 70,000 words were uploaded increasing the word count in Tamil Wiktionary from 1,20,000+ to 1,90,000+. This has brought Tamil to the 9th place (from 17) in the list of largest wiktionaries and has earned it a place in the Wiktionary front page logo. In addition, Tamil Wikipedians set up a stall at the WCTC and introduced Tamil Wiki projects to people from all walks of life. Jimmy Wales introduces the Malayalam Wikipedia CD of 500 selected articles during his key note address at Wikimania 2010 at Gdansk. The Hindi Wikipedia and its sister wiki projects migrated to the new vector interface on September 1, 2010. In addition, Hindi is the first (and so far the only) Indian language to be incorporated into the WikiBhasha translation and contribution toolkit developed by Microsoft Research. Malayalam wikimedian Santhosh Thottingal has developed a software (Wiki2CD) for the creation of the Malayalam Wikipedia CD, which was launched in 2010. In addition, Santosh, along with fellow Malayalam wikimedian Shiju Alex coordinated a panel discussion at Wikimania 2010 on creation of offline Wiki content.

Community news The first meetup in Delhi on 22 September 2010. Mumbai and Delhi held their first meetups in September, where Wikimedia Board members Barry Newstead and Bishakha Datta met up with Wikipedians and other interested members of the public in these cities. A month later, Hyderabad also held its first meetup. Arun Ram, Shiju Alex and Barry Newstead releasing the Wikimedia India community newsletter at the nineteenth Bangalore meetup on 24 September 2010. Wikipedians in Bangalore continued their tradition of meeting up regularly at the Centre for Internet and Society, with the nineteenth meetup in September featuring Barry and Bishaka as attendees, and marking the release of the community newsletter. Along with Delhi and Mumbai, Bangalore is reported to be one of the three cities in contention for the Indian office of the Wikipedia Foundation. Jimmy Wales speech at the Mumbai Wikipedia Meetup #3 on 31 October 2010. Intro by User:Bishdatta & User:Arunram. (Recorded by User:AshLin.) Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales had an interaction with Wikipedians followed by a presentation to members of the public at the third Wikipedia meetup in Mumbai on October 31, 2010. The first Wikimarathon, where Wikipedians and members of the public were encouraged to contribute to Wikimedia projects onsite, was held simultaneously at the meetups in Bangalore and Chennai on November 14, 2010. Wikipedians in Delhi also held a meetup the same day. The Malayalam Wikipedia held several academies in different parts of Kerala over the past few months. Wikimedia Foundation board member Bishakha Datta and Indian Wikipedian Srinivas Gunta co-authored a panel presentation at Wikimania 2010 on the Wikimedia Asia Project.

Current proposals and discussions Please add Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics to your watchlist in order to stay updated with the latest discussions regarding various aspects of the project. Two current featured articles, 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings and Economy of India have been nominated for reviews here and here respectively. Contribute and help prevent these articles from being delisted! This interesting discussion on the quality of editing in India-related articles has been underway for on the noticeboard a few days. Feel free to join in and express your opinion. A series of discussions are underway on the neutrality of the Famine in India article. Please comment and help resolve the disputes. Join the Wikimedia India mailing list and the IRC channel for regular updates and discussions. Links to language-specific forums are available here. If you've just joined, add your name to the Members section of Wikipedia:WikiProject India. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy! Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue. Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Signed... SBC-YPR, Sodabottle (Editors) Tinucherian (Distributor) This newsletter incorporates content from the WikiMedia India Community Newsletter, September 2010.

Looking forward to more contributions from you!

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may mention it at WikiProject India Outreach Department

This newsletter is automatically delivered by -- Tinu Cherian BOT - 10:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject India Newsletter Volume V, Issue no. 2 - November 2010

English WikiProject News After a missed issue, the WP:IND newsletter is back on track to being a regular bimonthly feature. The Indian WikiProject has seen plenty of online and off-line action, both in English as well as other Indian languages, and we now have a bigger, better format that intends to feature content and news from the English as well as other Indian language Wikipedias. Reaching out to Indians has been the theme of the Indian Wikiproject over the past couple of months, aiming to involve a greater number of Indians in editing both the English and Indian language Wikipedias. To this end, efforts to set up the Indian chapter of Wikimedia have moved into their final stages, and registration of the society is currently pending. An effort is underway to push for "WikiMarathons" at meetups, where attendees will be encouraged to edit the English and/or Indian language Wikipedias. This is intended to popularise Wikipedia editing among the general public. In addition, a bot to post DYK's from the Indian Wikiproject to Twitter was created and launched by User:Logicwiki. What's New? Regrettably, the number of Featured Articles has dropped from 63 in June to 58 at the end of October 2010. Several FAs came up for review and were delisted, while Fundamental Rights, Directive Principles and Fundamental Duties of India was saved. Meanwhile, Chalukya Dynasty appeared on the main page on July 9, 2010. Hearteningly, the number of Good Articles increased from 130 to 136 during the same period, while the number of Featured Lists remained constant at 16. The source code for the Article Alert Bot is now available and the bot itself is expected to be up and running very shortly. This means that article alerts for the Indian Wikiproject will again be available, enabling editors to easily keep track of developments in respect of reviews, nominations, deletions etc. The date change vandal mentioned briefly in the previous issue made a reappearance when the range block on his IP range expired in September. Consequently the block was extended till September 2011. In October there was a heated discussion in the India project noticeboard regarding the copyright status of the Indian party symbols. The discussion was triggered by the deletion of Wiki San Roze's party symbol images by Hammersoft as copyright violations. No resolution was reached, partly because of our inability to explain to Hammersoft how election symbols in India differ from party logos. Comments are requested from anyone with a background in Indian copyright law to clarify this issue. Complete To Do List Complete To Do List India-related tasks | Indian noticeboard Requests: Sibichen K Mathew, Dominic Emmanuel, AK Merchant, Counterfeiting of currency notes in India, Akhand Pratap Singh, Asura (band), Asian Variety Show, Cultural liberalism in India, India Export Tax, India Import Tax, More... NPOV: Greater Nepal Rajneesh, Ranjit Lal Jetley Hedgewar, Puttanna Kanagal, Bride burning, Sonia Gandhi More... Wikify: Railway stations, Mahavidwan R. Raghava Iyengar, Silk in the Indian subcontinent, IDBI Bank More... Cleanup: , Rampur, Tav-Prasad Savaiye, Shipping Corporation of India, Velama, Medical college (India), All India Radio, More... Merge: Raghava Rama, Sammar Bahisht, Sathya Sai Baba movement,More... Expand: Prime Minister of India, Krishna district, List of railway stations in India, Swaraj, Ashoka Kumar Thakur vs. Union of India (Supreme Court Case), Barak Missile Deal Scandal, 14th Lok Sabha, Adithada, Ali Sardar Jafri, Bandhani work, Bhaiband, Chikan (embroidery), China Town, Kolkata, Rahi Masoom Raza, Energy policy of India, Essar Shipping, Fair use, Hinduism in India, Imperial Bank, Inbuan Wrestling, Iran-India relations, Islam in India, Arjuna award, Sunil Mittal, Save Indian Family, Anjana Sukhani, Rajendra K. Pachauri, More... Stubs: Anand Math, A R Antule, Arjuna award, Army of India, Bapudeva Sastri, Bombay Dyeing, Indian Copyright Act, Marimallappa, Mumbai Skywalk, More... Translate: Bhojpuri Wikipedia articles, Maithili Wikipedia articles, Telugu Wikipedia articles, Marathi Wikipedia articles, Hindi Wikipedia articles, Sanskrit Wikipedia articles, Tamil Wikipedia articles Kannada Wikipedia articles Collaborate: Collaborations of the Month, Notice board, Category Adoptions To do, Version 1.0 assessment, India Portal, Life in India, India quick links Indian Wikipedians, More... Requested images: Ilaiyaraaja, M. S. Subbulakshmi, R. K. Narayan, Free image of Aarti Chhabria Other requests: Add maps from WikiProject India Maps to articles of Indian regions found at List of regions in India Create links/categories to {{Elections in India}} template

News from Indian-language Wikipedias The Bengali Wikisource, which contains the literary works of many prominent writers of Bengali language including Rabindranath Tagore, has crossed the 5,000 pages milestone. According to List of Wikisource page, Bengali Wikisource is now at rank 21 among 56 Wikisource based on number of content pages. The Tamil Wikipedia stall at the World Classical Tamil Conference 2010 in Coimbatore in June 2010. The uploading of Tamil technical words donated by Tamil Virtual University to the Tamil Wiktionary was completed in October. The words were donated by the Government of Tamil Nadu due to lobbying efforts by Tamil Wikipedians during the runup to the World Classical Tamil Conference 2010 (WCTC) in June. Nearly 70,000 words were uploaded increasing the word count in Tamil Wiktionary from 1,20,000+ to 1,90,000+. This has brought Tamil to the 10th place (from 17) in the list of largest wiktionaries and has earned it a place in the Wiktionary front page logo. In addition, Tamil Wikipedians set up a stall at the WCTC and introduced Tamil Wiki projects to people from all walks of life. Jimmy Wales introduces the Malayalam Wikipedia CD of 500 selected articles during his key note address at Wikimania 2010 at Gdansk. The Hindi Wikipedia and its sister wiki projects migrated to the new vector interface on September 1, 2010. In addition, Hindi is the first (and so far the only) Indian language to be incorporated into the WikiBhasha translation and contribution toolkit developed by Microsoft Research. Malayalam wikimedian Santhosh Thottingal has developed a software (Wiki2CD) for the creation of the Malayalam Wikipedia CD, which was launched in 2010. In addition, Santosh, along with fellow Malayalam wikimedian Shiju Alex coordinated a panel discussion at Wikimania 2010 on creation of offline Wiki content.

Community news The first meetup in Delhi on 22 September 2010. Mumbai and Delhi held their first meetups in September, where Wikimedia Board members Barry Newstead and Bishakha Datta met up with Wikipedians and other interested members of the public in these cities. A month later, Hyderabad also held its first meetup. Arun Ram, Shiju Alex and Barry Newstead releasing the Wikimedia India community newsletter at the nineteenth Bangalore meetup on 24 September 2010. Wikipedians in Bangalore continued their tradition of meeting up regularly at the Centre for Internet and Society, with the nineteenth meetup in September featuring Barry and Bishaka as attendees, and marking the release of the community newsletter. Along with Delhi and Mumbai, Bangalore is reported to be one of the three cities in contention for the Indian office of the Wikipedia Foundation. Jimmy Wales speech at the Mumbai Wikipedia Meetup #3 on 31 October 2010. Intro by User:Bishdatta & User:Arunram. (Recorded by User:AshLin.) Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales had an interaction with Wikipedians followed by a presentation to members of the public at the third Wikipedia meetup in Mumbai on October 31, 2010. The first Wikimarathon, where Wikipedians and members of the public were encouraged to contribute to Wikimedia projects onsite, was held simultaneously at the meetups in Bangalore and Chennai on November 14, 2010. Wikipedians in Delhi also held a meetup the same day. The Malayalam Wikipedia held several academies in different parts of Kerala over the past few months. Wikimedia Foundation board member Bishakha Datta and Indian Wikipedian Srinivas Gunta co-authored a panel presentation at Wikimania 2010 on the Wikimedia Asia Project.

Current proposals and discussions Please add Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics to your watchlist in order to stay updated with the latest discussions regarding various aspects of the project. Two current featured articles, 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings and Economy of India have been nominated for reviews here and here respectively. Contribute and help prevent these articles from being delisted! This interesting discussion on the quality of editing in India-related articles has been underway for on the noticeboard a few days. Feel free to join in and express your opinion. A series of discussions are underway on the neutrality of the Famine in India article. Please comment and help resolve the disputes. Join the Wikimedia India mailing list and the IRC channel for regular updates and discussions. Links to language-specific forums are available here. If you've just joined, add your name to the Members section of Wikipedia:WikiProject India. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy! Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue. Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Signed... SBC-YPR, Sodabottle (Editors) Tinucherian (Distributor) This newsletter incorporates content from the WikiMedia India Community Newsletter, September 2010.

Looking forward to more contributions from you!

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may mention it at WikiProject India Outreach Department

This newsletter is automatically delivered by User:Od Mishehu AWB, operated by עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Merger of Marwaris into Rajasthani people.

Discussion is going on at talk:WikiProject Rajasthan for Merger of Marwaris into Rajasthani people. Please participate. --Onef9day ^Talk! 08:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

APPEAL TO YOU Reg: [BRAHMAN PUJAN] , [UNIVERSAL PRAYERS] . written by [Naresh Sonee] On wikipedia , These above two pages are far older than the present article [Brahman] References of above titles are also available on New York site - http://www.printsasia.com/BookDetails.aspx?Id=445813482 Meanwhile, Can your good selves in Wiki Project Indian Community re-create a precise pages on [Naresh Sonee] & his book [Brahmand Pujan] – [Brahmaand Pujan] . However, Sonee is the writer of this book [Brahmand Pujan] written in 1999 . registered with Government of India- HRRD. Details of the registration is provided here on http://brhmaandpujanbook.tripod.com/ . More than sufficient, news and reviews are there on http://brhmaandpujan-news-reviews.tripod.com/ Since 5-6 yrs, for one or the other reason pages of [Naresh Sonee] & [Brahmand Pujan] are faced by communal bias from outside India so these articles over and again get deleted here in Wikipedia for minor reasons. However, many hits of - Naresh Sonee reflects on google search engine also. So, I request Wiki Indian community to kindly come forward and generously help these two pages to grow, as I am fed up to fight my case alone here [left] and moved out long back. Meanwhile, such an important info/issue on ‘Indian literature’ which adds & spell ‘new meaning /dimension’ to Brahman -should it stay lost else ignored? Your community panel has to judge at last. Myself, will not be on Wikipedia, for the same i apologise, but- pls. help these two pages to get reinstalled, reap, sow and grow, if you too feel so, I appeal to do this munificent favour. Regards- Dralansun (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:59, 27 December 2010 (UTC).

Nacil Destinations

Realise you protected NACIL destinations. Need to move the same to Air India Destinations (Change in Company name - refer 1 Cheers Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 07:25, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

1. Dont worry mate - I think its actually a merge job. Cheers, Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 07:33, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Creative Commons

We (at WP:Mumbai) are trying to arrange for a Creative Commons specialist to talk to Art Galleries and Museums in Mumbai and explain the different types of Creative Commons licenses to them (and advise them which ones are accepted on Wikipedia). This is part of WP:GLAM - trying to get them to release content under a Wikipedia acceptable license. Would you be interested in attending such a session? Part of your job would be to understand the whole thing and to convince people concerned to release content under CC-BY or CC-BY-SA. Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 06:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

India at FAR

India is now at FAR. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:19, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Unreferenced BLPs

Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Unreferenced BLPs, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Unreferenced BLPs and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Unreferenced BLPs during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 14:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

WCI 2011

Hiya, Im currently helping out with WikiConference India 2011 [1] (first such a national annual Wiki event in India). Just wondering if you can spare time to help out with the programming Team. Cheers, Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 08:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Notification of pending suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity

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Following a community discussion in June 2011, consensus was reached to provisionally suspend the administrative permissions of users who have been inactive for one year (i.e. administrators who have not made any edits or logged actions in over one year). As a result of this discussion, your administrative permissions will be removed pending your return if you do not return to activity within the next several days. If you wish to have these permissions reinstated should this occur, please post to the Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard and the userright will be restored per the re-sysopping process (i.e., as long as the attending bureaucrats are reasonably satisfied that your account has not been compromised and that your inactivity did not have the effect of evading scrutiny of any actions which might have led to sanctions). This removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon you in any way. We wish you the best in future endeavors, and thank you for your past administrative efforts.

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Suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity

See also: Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2011#September 2011

Following a community discussion in June 2011, consensus was reached to provisionally suspend the administrative permissions of users who have been inactive for one year (i.e. administrators who have not made any edits or logged actions in over one year). As a result of this discussion, your administrative permissions have been removed pending your return. If you wish to have these permissions reinstated, please post to the Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard and the userright will be restored per the re-sysopping process (i.e. as long as the attending bureaucrats are reasonably satisfied that your account has not been compromised and that your inactivity did not have the effect of evading scrutiny of any actions which might have led to sanctions). This removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon you in any way. We wish you the best in future endeavors, and thank you for your past administrative efforts. –xeno^talk 00:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Template:Word Bubble

Hello! As is quite obvious, I am using a word bubble. If you want to know how, i found the template on zeldapedia, where everyone is using these user talk fauna, and I figured they would be quite popular here. Instructions on how to make your own are at Category:UserTalk templates and the template is here. Wierdox (talk) 20:28, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Revival of COTM

Hi,

You may be aware that Collaboration of the Month has been revived by members of WP: India. For January 2012 there are 2 articles - Indian COTM - Premchand and Indian COTM for GA - Mahatma Gandhi. As a senior and respected editor you are requested to partake in this activity. Cheers, Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 14:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject India Tag & Assess 2012 Contest

Hello friends, we are a number of editors from WikiProject India have got together to assess the many thousands of articles under the stewardship of the project, and we'd love to have you, a fellow member, join us. These articles require assessment, that is, the addition of a WikiProject template to the talk page of an article, assessing it for quality and importance and adding a few extra parameters to it.

As of March 11, 2012, 07:00 UTC, WikiProject India has 95,998 articles under its stewardship. Of these 13,980 articles are completely unassessed (both for class and importance) and another 42,415 articles are unassessed for importance only. Accordingly, a Tag & Assess 2012 drive-cum-contest has begun from March 01, 2012 to last till May 31, 2012.

If you are new to assessment, you can learn the minimum about how to evaluate from Part One of the Assessment Guide. Part Two of the Guide will help you learn to employ the full functionality of the talk page template, should you choose to do so.

You can sign up on the Tag & Assess page. There are a number of awards to be given in recognition of your efforts. Come & join us to take part in this exciting new venture. You'll learn more about India in this way.

ssriram_mt (talk) & AshLin (talk) (Drive coordinators)

Delivered per request on Wikipedia:Bot requests. 00:40, 12 March 2012 (UTC) The Helpful Bot 00:40, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Notice of change

Hello. You are receiving this message because of a recent change to the administrator policy that alters what you were told at the time of your desysopping. The effect of the change is that if you are inactive for a continuous three year period, you will be unable to request return of the administrative user right. This includes inactive time prior to your desysopping if you were desysopped for inactivity and inactive time prior to the change in policy. Inactivity is defined as the absence of edits or logged actions. Until such time as you have been inactive for three years, you may request return of the tools at the bureaucrats' noticeboard. After you have been inactive for three years, you may seek return of the tools only through WP:RFA. Thank you. MBisanz ^talk 00:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

A New Wiki Article contribution

10:57, 3 August 2013 (UTC)10:57, 3 August 2013 (UTC)~ Hi, I have read various articles you have contributed in wikipedia. Since I am new user to wikipedia wanted someone to help or contribute my article. If you are willing, please let me know, I shall send you my article. I am ready with my article along with the image.

Looking forward for a favorable response. Appreciating your help in advance. Girijakapoor (talk)Girijakapoor

Welcome back!

Glad to notice you first, when I think RP is on his annual vacation! You are much needed! cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 17:51, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks.

Logged in yesterday after years and got sucked in. Doubt I'll be able to be as active as years before, but hope to contribute hither-tither and avoid the BIG DEBATES (ok, you may laugh now). Abecedare (talk) 17:57, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Also glad to see and hear that you, RP, F&f are still around! Abecedare (talk) 17:58, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not really active very much now. Just got back a couple of weeks back after a six month absence. I'm trying to stay away from the "BIG DEBATE" articles too, removed pretty much most of them from my watchlist, I just added India back recently! cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 04:50, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back! Glad to see a familiar face around. Elockid ^(Talk) 14:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Ditto! Abecedare (talk) 15:52, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Wow! It's excellent to see you back. Whether you participate in big debates or not, you are very much missed in the quiz. Please come back there.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:20, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Nice to see both you and PINQ alive and well. Will certainly drop by, and attempt the puzzlers... and now I have to add the PINQ archive to my reading list. <sigh> Abecedare (talk) 18:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am alive and writing in your talk page. Yes, come up with your limericks in PINQ.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:46, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey - welcome back. Thought you were 'lost and gone forever'! --regentspark (comment) 22:22, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Just on a three year walkabout.

Glad to see the old crowd still active... means I don't have to check the 1,978 (!) pages on my watchlist individually, right? :-) Abecedare (talk) 00:40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Hemu

Hey, Abecedare, I was initially inclined to semi-protect the article per your request, but on closer look, there really hasn't been enough recent disruption to warrant it. If the request had come through WP:RFPP, I would have declined it. If the situation worsens, feel free to let me know on my talk page or go to RFPP. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:52, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good. Abecedare (talk) 00:54, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Sources

I saw that you had reverted one of my edit, of the page Sanskrit, acknowledging that a few reliable sources considers 6000 BC[2]](page 75) as the date of Sanskrit. But that would be quiet huge estimate, 4000 BC has been supported by multiple sources, [3](page 10), [4] (page 71), and [5] suggests "4500" BC. I think we should add. OccultZone (talk) 03:31, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Actually I had said 6000 years ago (ie ~4000 BC) in my edit-summary, but never mind that understandable confusion.

Coming to the topic of dating pre-classical Sanskrit: Note that David Frawley, and essays about UFO visits in 4000BC are certainly not reliable sources on the subject (the other refs you cite also look less than stellar, although I haven't examined them in detail yet). The aim here is not to find random books on google books that make tall claims, but to research and document the range of opinion held by acknowledged experts in the relevant areas of linguistics and history. In any case, I think this discussion would be best held on the article talk page, where other interested editors can also participate. Can you please post your proposed edit and references there (weeding out the obviously non-RS ones, and ones that don't support your claim, like this one) ?Abecedare (talk) 04:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

[6] actually support, if u search "4500" inside the book. And possibly, i would had opened discussion at talk page, but first i need your consesus, as you seem only active editor of that page. OccultZone (talk) 04:37, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Lets take it to the article talk page, and feel free to add quotes from "Earl Mindell's Supplement Bible: A Comprehensive Guide to Hundreds of NEW Natural Products that Will Help You Live Longer, Look Better, Stay Heathier, ... and Much Much More" if you think (1) it supports your proposal, and (2) it is remotely a reliable source for pre-classical Sanskrit. Abecedare (talk) 04:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Do you need rollback?

As it probably got dropped in the various user rights changes of yours let me know if you want me to add it for you. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 09:42, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure, thanks. Abecedare (talk) 12:43, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Done, and just because I have the chance to use a template, it follows. —SpacemanSpiff 14:01, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I didn't realize your admin bits got timed out. You have been gone a long time! Are you ready for another go sometime soon? --regentspark (comment) 20:13, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Not anytime soon. May reconsider next year depending upon my activity level and involvement with meta- and maintenance issues that the require admin bit. In the meantime I am happy to dump all that tedium and outrage-magnet onto some admins I know. :) Abecedare (talk) 02:31, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Pinging SS, RP: can either of you undelete Vivekodayam in mainspace, or transfer its content to my userspace ? Saw it mentioned at Nachuk Tahate Shyama (which I saw mentioned at WT:INB etc) and sources are available to at least create a stub. Abecedare (talk) 04:49, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

There's not much there and it looks like some content might be in another article -- see the prod notes, but it's now at User:Abecedare/Vivekodayam. —SpacemanSpiff 06:33, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, that's on a different subject than the one I was planning to create. Can you just speedy delete it again ? (See, I wasn't joking about burdening you guys). Abecedare (talk) 06:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Your request for rollback

Hi Abecedare. After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
• Rollback should never be used to edit war.
• If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
• Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! —SpacemanSpiff 14:01, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

WP:PINQ

Hey, ask a question there. It's waiting for a good question.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:52, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

If only I had seen this 5 minutes back, I would have created one on Vivekodayam, a redlink which I just learned about. Unfortunately I mentioned the journal in my previous edit. If I think of something new over the next day or so, and PINQ is still in the wait mode, I'll post something but don't wait for me. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 04:59, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes if you come up with something, post the question there.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Draft RFC proposal for Indic Scripts in literature articles

Draft RFC Proposal

Question

May transliterations in Indic script be included in the lede for articles on written literature (like books, poems) in Indian languages with non-English titles?

Rationale

For written literature, the associated primary language and script is,

• easy to determine (by looking at the form the work was first published in), and
• useful for a reader trying to locate the primary written work, or secondary literature on the subject.

Caveats

1. This RFC is only on the question of whether transliterations may be included. Individual articles may present distinctive concerns not foreseen here, in which case whether Indic transliterations should be included is decided through consensus.
2. For works simultaneously published in many languages, editors need to determine through discussion whether to include multiple transliterations in the lede, later in the article, or exclude them altogether (eg, for newspaper, magazines, some Government of India publications, that are simultaneously be published in numerous languages, and have no primary language) based on issues like what reliable sources do, POV concerns, readability, and utility to a general reader.

Should we extend the above to Films with non-English titles or explicitly exclude them? What are pros and cons? Abecedare (talk) 07:12, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi

I have started the discussion on both the talk pages. Pls. do not merge articles.

Last week, I observed that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are written as same article. and Ganesh festival is been redirected to Ganesh Chaturthi.

Pls. note that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are seperate things. Ganesh Charturthi is the single day which comes on the 4th day of Bhadrapada month as per Hindu calendar which is been celebrated as Ganesh sthapana in India. This is an improtant day where the pooja is performed at home. The prasad of Modak is offered to Ganesha on that day.

Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 10/11 days. The festival starts on Ganesh Charturthi and ends on Anant Chaturdashi. This festival is widely celebrated in India and some parts outside India as well. Some poeple celebrate Ganesh festival for 2, 5, 7 or 10 days depending upon the rituals and the area they are staying. There are many programs which are planned and celebrated during Ganesh festival. On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, Ganesh idol are immersed in the sea or nearby lakes and rivers. There is a big celebration on that day where there is long q for performing this.

Looking at this background, we must have two seperate articles. If any body has any issue, pls. let me know. You may help me in improving the content in both the articles. Thanks Coolgama (talk) 11:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:Ganesh Chaturthi, where we can continue the discussion. Abecedare (talk) 01:09, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

• Wikipedia:Reviewing, the guideline on reviewing
• Wikipedia:Pending changes, the summary of the use of pending changes
• Wikipedia:Protection policy#Pending changes protection, the policy determining which pages can be given pending changes protection by administrators. —SpacemanSpiff 05:47, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Nice to see you back after a long time... it was a pleasant surprise to see activity on your talk page in my watchlist :) --TheMandarin (talk) 05:42, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and ditto. It is pleasant to run into "old faces". Abecedare (talk) 05:45, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 15

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Vivekodayam, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Untouchables and James Allen (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Vivekodayam

Thank you very much for writing the article Vivekodayam' and nominating it for DYK. Could you please add it in User:Titodutta/Swami Vivekananda's 150th birth anniversary celebration initiatives when it'll be promoted? See also:

Swami Vivekananda's 150th birth anniversary DYK celebration September 2013 — Date requests
This is a part of Swami Vivekananda's 150th birth anniversary celebration initiatives 2013 is being celebrated as the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda. In September 1893 he delivered a series of lectures in the Parliament of the World's Religions in Chicago. Six of those lectures are mainly referred and recorded in the Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda. We are attempting to feature DYKs on the dates on which Vivekananda delivered his speeches in Chicago. Please note Please assume good faith and help if you can. If "DYK featured?" column indicates "no", that means, the date is still free. Please do not select more than 1 DYK per day (even if you see more than 1 DYK are nominated per day). Do not comment on this template or the planned DYK celebration in the DYK nomination page. Post your comments here. Task completed: 100% complete
DYK promoter/Admin, please note If you feel a "passed" DYK nomination is not ready to be promoted or a hook needs to be pulled down from queue, please replace it with the immediate next DYK hook or select one from the reserved DYKs.
Date	Article	DYK nomination	Reviewed	Passed	DYK featured?
11 September	Swami Vivekananda (film)	Template:Did you know nominations/Swami Vivekananda (film)	Done by Crisco	Yes	Yes
15 September	Sister Christine	Template:Did you know nominations/Sister Christine	Done by Piotrus, Overturned by BlueMoonset, redone by Crisco	Yes	Yes
19 September	Vedanta Society of New York	Template:Did you know nominations/Vedanta Society of New York	Done by Bonkers The Clown	Yes	Yes
20 September	Swami Vivekananda statue (Golpark, Kolkata)	Template:Did you know nominations/Swami Vivekananda statue (Golpark, Kolkata)	Done by Crisco	Yes	Yes
26 September	Josephine MacLeod	Template:Did you know nominations/Josephine MacLeod	Done by Dharmadhyaksha, BlueMoonset had a question, re-reviewed by BlueMoonset	Yes	Yes
27 September	Arise, awake, and stop not till the goal is reached	Template:Did you know nominations/Arise, awake, and stop not till the goal is reached	Done by Bonkers The Clown	Yes	Yes
Reserved DYKs
Date	Article	DYK nomination	Reviewed	Passed	DYK featured?
N.A.	Nachuk Tahate Shyama	Template:Did you know nominations/Nachuk Tahate Shyama	Done by Hmlarson	Yes
N.A.	Religion not the crying need of India	Template:Did you know nominations/Religion not the crying need of India	Done by 99of9	Yes
N.A.	Bartaman Bharat	Template:Did you know nominations/Bartaman Bharat	Done by TParis	Yes
N.A.	User:Titodutta/Buddhism, the Fulfilment of Hinduism (85% complete)
N.A	Atmano mokshartham jagat hitaya cha	Template:Did you know nominations/Atmano mokshartham jagat hitaya cha
N.A	User:Titodutta/Vedanta Society of Northern California (13% complete)
N.A.	User:Titodutta/Kanyakumari resolve of 1892 (30% complete)
N.A.	User:Titodutta/Bahujana hitaya bahujana sukhaya cha (5% complete)

I have seen your post at Nachuk Tahate Shyama talk, but, I do not have that book. --Tito☸Dutta 05:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure, will do.

And incidentally, I first read of Vivekodayam at Nachuk Tahate Shyama that you too worked on. So, once again, Vivekodayam could be said to be inspired by Vivekananda. :) Abecedare (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Would you ...

... like to bring to bear your fine judgment and considerable experience, in other words, weigh in, at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_17#Category:Colonial_schools_in_India? I have already warned editors there I'll be soliciting. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:49, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I find categories on wikipedia such a mess that I usually don't bother getting involved unless its something egregious. But I'll certainly read through the discussion and see if I have anything to add/support. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 19:04, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know how I got drawn into this. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:09, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Vivekodayam

The DYK project (nominate) 04:19, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Eknath Ranade

I have started 5x expanding Eknath Ranade. It should not be a difficult work. Because, the whole biography was written in list. I have started converting to prose. See if you can help. --Tito☸Dutta 07:17, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure, will take a look.

Btw, not sure whether rockmemorial.org can/should be used as a source; correct me if I'm wrong, but it just seems to be a personal fan site compiled by an individual, Paritosh Uttam, and not officially connected with any, say GoI, organization. It says:

This website is dedicated to the Vivekananda Rock Memorial, a monument about which every Indian ought to know. (Of course this does not imply that people from other countries should not know about it!) The information presented here has been culled from various sources, but mainly from publications of Vivekananda Kendra.

That said, the information it has looks trustworthy, but it would be better to trace down the sources it relied on, rather than use it directly. Abecedare (talk) 12:24, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• Good question. I have asked it at RSN. Rousing call to Hindu Nation of Ranade might be another wonderful article. --Tito☸Dutta 13:26, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• and, I am happy to inform you that Swami Vivekananda has become a Good article today. --Tito☸Dutta 13:28, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Nice work! Abecedare (talk) 13:53, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• You may remove the ref if you think you'll not need it. And you may also nominate it at DYK hooking Eknath Ranade and Vivekananda Rock Memorial. You may select a QPQ from here: User:Titodutta/DYK tracker Tito☸Dutta 14:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I think at a minimum we should be able to minimize the use of the ref, which would lessen the concern.

Would be happy to nominate the article for DYK, but that would depend on how much time I can devote to it over the next few days (always an issue!)... so will appreciate any and all help and collaboration. Abecedare (talk) 15:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• Okay, sure. I may nominate/follow-up DYK nomination/expand the article etc. Can you start an article on Influence of Swami Vivekananda? --Tito☸Dutta 15:46, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

That will be a humungous undertaking, since there is sure to be a rich diverse literature on the subject. To be done properly would be a year+ effort, so it is best taken up by someone already familiar with the subject and literature. Abecedare (talk) 15:51, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, it'll be very large, but, you may start, write few sentences, I'll continue and finish it in next 2-3 days. I am very much reluctant to start important articles at this moment or nominate them at GA/FA. Hopefully Influence of Swami Vivekananda will be a GA too soon. I need someone else to start a Wikipedia:WikiProject Swami Vivekananda Tito☸Dutta 15:57, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• And, BTW, the RSN post was not a report (against you). Actually I was not sure myself, and RSN should be the best place to clarify such doubts. --Tito☸Dutta 15:47, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh I know! Never though any differently :) Abecedare (talk) 15:51, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

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Disambiguation link notification for September 26

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Very glad to see you back

Could you take a look at the discussion at User talk:SpacemanSpiff and let us know if you can help? Thanks. Oh, and this guy[7]. Not just that edit. Dougweller (talk) 13:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Influence of Swami Vivekananda

I have started writing Influence and legacy of Swami Vivekananda, it is an important article, see if you can help. --Tito☸Dutta 17:45, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Nice work Tito!

A broad suggestion: a person unfamiliar with SV reading the current article will be convinced that SV was very influential and that he affected many individuals, but the reader will have a less clear understanding of what his influence was, ie what ideas he propagated and what "real world" effect they had (some quotes in the article, like those of Vinoba Bhave and Majumdar, do hint at this, but it can be made more explicit). My amateur listing of the areas SV was influential in would include:

• introduction of a pan-Hinduism philosophy/identity (which I have seen referred to as neo-Hinduism, modern Hinduism etc)
• emphasis of seva and social (even national) service as a religious duty,
• germinating Hindu Nationalism as a political movement (there are differing views on whether this was inherent in SV's teachings, or a re-interpretation by RSS etc)
• introducing Yoga and Hinduism to the West

Admittedly I have not read widely on SV per se, and the above is based more on general reading on Hinduism, 20th c. Indian history, and Indian political movements (subjects where SV is impossible to miss). But I hope you, Dwaipayanc and others who have actually gone through the SV related literature will be able to flesh these ideas out in the new article. I'll try and chip in near the edges. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 01:16, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Gee, I have never actually gone through books/literature on Vivekananda. I have not even read his works although those were present in my house for years. Have you, Tito?--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:20, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I thought you too were involved in the Swami Vivekananda page. It may have been seeing you and Tito recently mentioned on F&f's page that made me make the association. Either ways, time for you to hit the books (that you already have), and get working to the new SV page. :) Abecedare (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I did not read this article, but saw the titles of sections/subsection. Yeah, it's mostly on people who were influenced. Rather than that, the approach suggested by Abecedere would be better, the concepts that he influenced/championed.--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:22, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

A quick note: my suggestions above were "in addition" to, rather than "in place of" the current article content. Once all the content is in place, finding the best structure and organization of the material is something that even less knowledgeable persons, like me, can do. Abecedare (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the basic structure of the article has been created. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Swami Vivekananda/Swami Vivekananda tasks, there are multiple "Influence" related articles. I'll gradually add more content, influence on countries, organizations, movements (such as Ramakrishna Vivekananda movement). Another article has been created recently Swami Vivekananda and meditation. @Dwaipayanc:, no, I have not read any book of Vivekananda. Actually, I have not heard his name too. Who is Vivekananda? Is he a Bangladeshi cricketer? @Abecedare:, are you familiar with Ranade's Rousing Call to Hindu Nation? Can you start an article on it? --Tito☸Dutta 15:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• BTW, Wikipedia:WikiProject Swami Vivekananda has been created too. --Tito☸Dutta 15:07, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I came across Rousing Call to Hindu Nation while working on Eknath Ranade, but am not sure what we can say about the book that has not already been said that article (namely: it's a compilation of SV's writing selected by ER and published on 100th anniversary of the former's birth). I haven't read any independent reviews of the work (not surprising, given that its a plain compilation, rather than an original work or even a compilation+commentary) that would allow us to add much critical analysis of the work itself. Perhaps it would suffice to have it as a redirect to (a section of?) Eknath Ranade. Abecedare (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• Hello, okay, I have gone ahead and created Rousing Call to Hindu Nation', you may help if you want. Thanks :) Tito☸Dutta 17:17, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Hemu

You were to write on Hemu. Please take out some time.Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 07:02, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Eknath Ranade

Gatoclass (talk) 00:03, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

• Archived copy of the main page Tito☸Dutta 00:13, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Abecedare (talk) 00:54, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Vallabha Acharya edits

Hello, the edits I've made in the "Death" section is completely valid. Being a follower of the sect "Pushtimarg" - created by Shri VallabhAcharyaji himself, I am very well aware of the fact. Please allow my edit. The word death is not used for our Spiritual guru Shri VallabhAcharyaji but the word "AsurVyamohLila" - which means to show that one has left this world in front of unholy/evil people. The word death used for our revered Spiritual Guru Shri VallabhAcharya is not acceptable to the followers of this sect. So, please allow my edit. Many books of our sect have articles on the topic of AsurVyamohLila which can justify this edit. So, please consider my request. Instead of word Death please allow the usage of word "AsurVyamohLila" Also the name is "Shri VallabhAcharya" and not Vallabh"a" Acharya. Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthseeker1982 (talk • contribs) 11:43, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't doubt that followers of Pushtimarg avoid using the word death in context of Vallabha Acharya; that is a common practice in many religious traditions. However on wikipedia while we present the religious point of view, we don't adopt it. Also your edits do not cite a source, and the information you added is somewhat redundant/misplaced since Asurvyamohlila is mentioned in the sentence right before the ones you added. Please see our policies on religious point of view and sourcing for further discussion of these issues.

All that said, there may be a way to present the information you wish to include in more encyclopedic terms. Can you cite the books (ie provide the book title, author, publisher etc) that have articles on AsurVyamohLila and provide brief quotes from the relevant passages? You can do so here or the article talk page, and we can move forward from there. Abecedare (talk) 16:22, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Swastika image

Swasthika

I have been trying to put a image for days. Why do you think I am misleading?

Abeywickrama (talk) 16:25, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for discussing the issue!... but can we do so at the article talk page, where other interested editors can participate? Abecedare (talk) 16:30, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Byrd Spilman Dewey

Thanks for the kudos on the Byrd Spilman Dewey page - you asked if I had read the book Pioneering Palm Beach - I am indeed the author! I wanted this page to be a biography of Byrd Spilman Dewey as an author, not so much as a synopsis of the book. I used her books as a sort of "interview" with her to add her voice of more than 100 years ago to the storyline. I think she led an incredible life! Flahistory (talk) 01:22, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words. Mrs. Dewey was a gifted writer; Bruno is obviously her most heralded work, but not my favorite. That goes to From Pine Wooods to Palm Groves, which tells of her moving to Palm Beach County in 1887. It has some great scenes, and really captures the pioneer spirit. I know each locale where the story takes place, so that makes it extra special. Flahistory (talk) 13:15, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Upnishads

Don't see actual problem with the leading line, it's fine, neutrality. Only thing would be, "...that seers are reputed to have visited Greece, it may be that the Upanishadic..", creates confusion. I know there's always someone to dispute such history. But the source sources presents it as a fact. Unless it was some heated subject, but it's not. Bladesmulti (talk) 05:00, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Most sources recognize the parallelism between Upanishads and the Greek philosophy of Plato and Pythagoras, but the view that the Upanishads directly influenced the Greeks is very much a minority (though not fringe) view. The current text in the Upanishads article is perhaps not as clear as it can be; I'll try to work on it once I have checked all the cited sources. Abecedare (talk) 05:16, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh yes, it's not Fringe. So i would say that rather than "may be", "perhaps" is better word. Because "may be" directs too "a view", while perhaps is like "probably". Bladesmulti (talk) 05:51, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

I have rewritten the section to better reflect the sources and to essentially point the similarities in philosophies and then outline the two theories of influence vs parallel development. Btw, the "influence" theory is very much a minority view; you won't even find it mentioned it in the Plato article or most reviews of Plato's work. So I hope that while the Upanishad article rightfully describes the theory, it has not been over-emphasized since we shouldn't be building "walled gardens" of such claims. In any case, see if the text is clear now, and if the description is too hurried or too detailed. Abecedare (talk) 07:01, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

It's written nicely, posing a neutral sense and based on academics. Cheers Bladesmulti (talk) 07:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Bhimbetka rock shelters & Shiva

Those paintings are 30,000 BCE old, where you found that they are 600 BCE - 600 CE? And i think that it was better to keep it in a separate section, as it's just different base for Shiva's depiction, just like "The Pashupati seal". Bladesmulti (talk) 03:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

The arrow/spear carrying drawings of Shiva were in fact drawn in Mesolithic period, as per the sources of Bhimbetka rock shelters, this period dates up to 50,000 BCE. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:52, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

In the Shiva article, as per the cited sources, we are talking about the widely accepted Shiva (with trident) and Nandi images, which are from the historic period. That period starts from around 600BCE and extends to medieval/modern times (arguable to present day, if we include "AH ♡ LS" type writings :-) )... but since the Shiva paintings are regarded to be from the early historic period, I cited the 600-BCE-600CE period given in Mathpal. There may be more precise estimates for the particular Shiva & Nandi paintings, and if we find them we can provide a narrower date range within that 1200 year period.

Incidentally (not that it matters for the Shiva page), the Mesolithic period for the Bhimbetka cave is roughly centered around ~5000BCE by current estimates. I think you mistakenly added a zero in your comment. :) Abecedare (talk) 04:51, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Mesolithic period dates up to 50,000 BCE(maximum) anywhere, if it's less than 10,000 BCE then it's not Mesolithic. These paintings are about 30,000 BCE, or 30,000 as per the sources around. Since this period is pre-historic, i think it's better if we add the previous line into "Historical development and literature." From start, but as "pre-historical sites, such as Bhimbetka......" Bladesmulti (talk) 05:03, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Bladesmulti, the date ranges for mesolithic (and other such) periods are site dependent, because these classifications mark the stage of progress of the society at a site; they do not define any universal dates. See Mesolithic to verify this in general, and see Chapter 2 of Singh, 2008 for discussion in the Indian context (including with regards to the Bhimbetka caves for which Singh provides the current start date estimates to be 6556-6177BCE and end date estimates 4895-4580BCE; Mathpal's and Javid's estimates are in the same ball-park). If you have equally reliable scholarly sources that say otherwise, I'd like to see them... but in any case, as I mentioned above, this is irrelevant to the Shiva article since the images being discussed are not Mesolithic to start with. Abecedare (talk) 05:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Sounds about right, i may edit it to make it look more redirecting towards this actual point. Bladesmulti (talk) 11:42, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

This page should be reviewed by you

Abecedare, looking at your active contribution towards the religious and cultural articles. I think you should contribute to this article named "Hinduism and other religions", a editor called Blackguard SF seems to be randomly editing, in the sense that he has never edited any of the hinduism related articles, yet he always jumps to this article without making any discussion, with the same dialogue that "article written like essay", then he launches personal attacks such as "problematic editor." While he adds the same fringed material all the time, which is already refuted in discussion of the page, can be see here. I think I can make this page a lot better, but it seems that suspicious editor like him really won't let anyone, and the page will remain "poor" class article, like it's now with such edition. Thanks Justicejayant (talk) 05:59, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I have not looked at the issues or the various editors' conduct in detail, but just looking at the most recent set of revisions that were reverted here is my high level comment: There are essentially two ways to write such a broad article from scratch:

• Follow the Summary style, ie first decide upon a high-level section-wise organization for the page (as you already have), and then for each section simply summarize the content of the corresponding sub-article, for example the contents of "Hinduism and Islam" section will simply be a summary of the Hinduism and Islam article, and you don't need to do much fresh "research". This technique works if those sub-articles are in good shape and well-sourced. Unfortunately, this is not the case in this instance.
• Alternatively, search for the highest quality comprehensive reference(s) you can find; read them; and then summarize their content onto wikipedia (ie the approach one takes in writing college papers, or the "literature survey" chapters of original theses). I cannot off-hand tell you what references would be best for Hinduism and other religions article but that shouldn't be hard to discover for such a well-covered subject. For example, search for universities with a strong religion department; look up their course offerings in the field of comparative religion; and then look at the textbook and reading list for the the relevant course(s).

A third approach that is often adopted on wikipedia is to:

• Write down what one already knows about the subject and then search google/google books/google scholar for appropriate sources to cite or, at best, refine ones statement. However this approach is deeply problematic (except in the very rare instances where an acknowledged scholar on the subject happens to write a wikipedia article). This is so, not because what the resultant article says is necessarily wrong (if one has been diligent about finding sources that won't be the case), but because the article will almost surely be incomplete and unbalanced, ie it will be missing some important aspects, and over-emphasizing others. Also, in practice such an article will end up using sources of mixed quality (depending on what a search spits up) and often read like a personal essay.

Taking a quick look at the sources cited in the Hinduism and other religions and the article history, it seems that it has been based on the third approach since (a) each factoid seems to be cited to a distinct source and (2) the sources, barring a couple, are very iffy. Now the editors involved with the article can debate on the talk page over inclusion/exclusion of each individual fact, and appropriate phrasing and sources, but that is a very frustrating experience if you are trying to develop an article from scratch. Instead, I would highly recommend that you (and others involved) take the second approach I outlined above.

I realize that it can be too much to ask volunteer editors to find/buy/borrow and read up a few whole books on the subject to write a wikipedia article. But in my personal experience, that research is the fun part since one both ends up learning something and the edits one makes to wikipedia tend to "stick" for a long time. Additionally, if disputes arise, it is relatively easy to convince neutral editors that you are in the right because you have solid sources to back you up on both content and converage. (If you do decide to take this path, I'll be happy to help find the names of appropriate references on the topic).

The above comments may not help resolve your immediate issue with User:Blackguard SF, but I hope you'll give it some thought. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 06:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Just because i see no hope from this user, so I tried to get a third opinion from you. Other article like Christianity and other religions is a clue that how this article could/can be made. That's how, stay in touch with this article. Justicejayant (talk) 09:12, 14 October 2013 (UTC)