User talk:MisterCake/Archive 5

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Red Barron

Thought I'd let you know, Red Barron's page had been in this state until just a few minutes ago. Lizard (talk) 20:59, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Oglethorpe Stormy Petrels baseball coach navbox

Template:Oglethorpe Stormy Petrels baseball coach navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 21:34, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Walter Mayberry

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Walter Mayberry has been completed.

I archived several of the URLs (where allowed) and in the course of attempting to do this discovered that the article has developed several "dead links" which I have marked as . I guess you'll have to try to find alternate sources to replace them.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 21:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again twofingered. I think I got all of the dead links. Cake (talk) 02:53, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Air Force Falcons quarterback navbox

Template:Air Force Falcons quarterback navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. –Grondemar 03:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 21:56, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Edit Summaries

Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

When editing Wikipedia, there is a field labeled "Edit summary" below the main edit box. It looks like this:

Edit summary (Briefly describe your changes)

Please be sure to provide a summary of every edit you make, even if you write only the briefest of summaries. The summaries are very helpful to people browsing an article's history.

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Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. You can give yourself a reminder to add an edit summary by setting Preferences → Editing → Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Thanks! UW Dawgs (talk) 05:50, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Unsourced content

Posting here, as you appear to be on a path towards adminstrative action. In multiple locations, we are in disagreement with Clemson football's participation in SIAA, begining with our brief discussion here Talk:Clemson Tigers football#conference affiliation.

My current view -absent ANY conflicting football source, is based on Clemson's view:

• Independent (1896-1899)
• SIAA (1900-1903)
• Independent (1904-1905)
• SIAA (1906)
• Independent (1907-1937)
• SoCON (1938-1951)
• Independent (1952)
• ACC (1953-present)

per 2016 Media Guide,/ pg 200-208.

In numerous locations you have removed this content and its paired citation, generally replacing them with a statement indicating Clemson football was a member of SIAA for that specific year. While this is certainly possible, many (most) of your edits lack a citation. You have also declined to offer a Clemson football/SIAA citation when asked to do so on multiple Talk pages.

Taken in total, you edits are ignoring WP:Verifiability, ignoring WP:BURDEN re providing a citation supporting contentious content prior to re-adding it, engage in WP:DE by removing sourced content, and WP:TE by repeatedly re-adding challenged and disputed content without offering a supporting citation. I strongly encourage you to begin to take your content changes and Talk discussions seriously, specifically by clearly providing a valid citation when requested to do so. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:37, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

On the contrary, you've ignored multiple sources provided and responses to the same question. I've given you sources to show Clemson was in the SIAA in 1897, 1898, 1904, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1917, and 1921 off the top of my head, aside from Saylor's source on the SIAA. It's very obvious the only time Clemson knows enough to stick "SIAA" on a season is when they won the title, which you would have easily figured out had you sought out to corroborate the media guide with primary sources instead of ignoring mine. Cake (talk) 17:33, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs With respect (and to the previous editors), I think you misread the sources. Clemson was a member of the SIAA from around 1896 to 1921. It was never an Independent. The league was very large and not greatly organized beyond it's initial structure, and generally had not very clear guidelines for rankings, standings, or choosing champions. It was compiled by conference season records, which wasn't uniform since teams played different opposition in their various regions, and different numbers of games. I left a few sources on the corresponding talk pages. Respectfully, these Clemson pages, and their proper standings, need to be restored to their previous formats at some point. Thanks. SportsEdits1 (talk) 07:59, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

December 2016

Hello, I'm UW Dawgs. I noticed that you made a change to an article, North Carolina Tar Heels football, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:29, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I'm UW Dawgs. I noticed that you made a change to an article, 1921 Clemson Tigers football team, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:29, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I'm UW Dawgs. I noticed that you made a change to an article, 1897 Clemson Tigers football team, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC) ‎

Hello, I'm UW Dawgs. I noticed that you made a change to an article, 1898 Clemson Tigers football team, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC) ‎

Hello, I'm UW Dawgs. I noticed that you made a change to an article, 1905 Clemson Tigers football team, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I'm UW Dawgs. I noticed that you made a change to an article, 1907 Clemson Tigers football team, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC) ‎

Please do not add or change content, as you did at 1921 Clemson Tigers football team, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 21:03, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content, as you did at North Carolina Tar Heels football, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 21:03, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content, as you did at 1907 Clemson Tigers football team, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 22:37, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content, as you did at 1899 Clemson Tigers football team, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 22:57, 21 December 2016 (UTC)‎

Please do not add or change content, as you did at 1898 Clemson Tigers football team, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 23:03, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

1916 Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1916 Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets football team has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 14:46, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Washington College (Tacoma)

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Washington College (Tacoma) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Pkbwcgs (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

• This page here has more info if you want to try to build it up. Cbl62 (talk) 19:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Restoring Southern Conference (charter members) / SIAA standings

Cake, could you help User:UW Dawgs or myself restore Clemson Military College / University in the Southern Conference standings (especially since they were charter members) and in the SIAA standings on individual team pages for all years they were removed (they were never Independents with Montana and South Carolina). Previous editors already had it correct. I am not sure exactly how UW Dawgs changed the templates or if he used WP:HC to do it globally somehow (not familiar with that program), or if it has to be fixed page for page. Thanks bud. SportsEdits1 (talk) 19:29, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Think it was page by page. Thanks for the help. FYI, Auburn's 1897 yearbook does not list Clemson, but the 1898 one does. It's possible they joined in December (when the SIAA met) of 1896, so that the first real season of play was 1897. In other words, if you are correct that they start in 1896, it would be nice for a source, but there seem to be enough for the years thereafter. Cake (talk) 22:39, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

You bet. Wow, I was surprised UW made so many global changes based on a clear misreading of a media guide. I don't think the media guide editors bothered with ranking every season because the conferences back in those times are nothing like they are today in terms of organization, money, or control. I think the early conferences stayed afloat on dues back then. The general consensus among college sports professionals is that Clemson's head sports information director is one of the most respected in the business. As far as the 1896 part, the other man I spoke with cited the Wendell Bailey book as something they have around that mentions Clemson in affiliation or talks of some kind with SIAA as early as 1895, but again, I think the school recognizes 1896 because that was the year they fielded their first sports teams, which would make sense if they fielded baseball in the spring of 1896, then they would have most likely have been organizing the previous Autumn/ Winter. So I think 1896 makes the most sense for now. SportsEdits1 (talk) 06:36, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

UW questioned UNC's placement in the SIAA in part due to their media guide not mentioning it. If newspapers and Auburn yearbooks are any guide, he was right to do so. I also assented to the hypothetical that, say, UNC was in the SIAA for baseball but not for football; which was probably an error on my part. Using the same method of checking the media guide, he displaced Clemson and South Carolina's SIAA status. Had he have looked beyond the year-by-year section, he would see they did mention e. g. Puss Derrick as specifically All-SIAA in 1905. It seems to me the authors just preferred to suspend judgment on ranking the team in the SIAA other than 'banner years', for here on wikipedia it takes us years and multiple editors to get it right. If Clemson is your interest, might I add that Jess Neely's article could use an expansion on his coaching career. Cake (talk) 00:35, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

I saw an article in all this reading that criticized UNC for dropping out of the SIAA. It may have been one that you sourced? Sometimes, you can also find modern sources as to whether schools recognize membership or championships if there is a discrepancy, or contact their sports information offices. I see that you have written much about Vanderbilt Commodores. Think you might be interested in adding more to Clemson or their John Heisman or Bob Williams years if you come across more? Well, coming from the southeast, I already knew that those large changes were just not factual. I think editors on the college football talk page should be more cautious about removing or changing content that may have been researched by the work of previous editors. I won't even start about champions being plural when "standing alone" (not in a sentence) or proper. ;)~ BTW, I was curious as to why you dropped a conference game on the 1900 Clemson Tigers team? Is that because a conference opponent had contested membership? Was Furman members for awhile? And according to the Wofford football page, I saw that an editor added that they were members of SIAA since 1901. Feel free to fix my minor errors anytime, especially when I am haggling with boxes or graphs. Speaking of Cumberland, you should watch this video. I always wondered if another reason Heisman had so much supposed contempt for Cumberland in 1916, was because he was so gracious in sharing a championship with them in 1903. Anyway, Happy Holidays Cake. Enjoy: [1] SportsEdits1 (talk) 02:47, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

You too edits, and that is a brilliant little video. I just found that UNC at least applied for membership in 1900. I've at least tried to do much on Vandy and Florida, and the big SIAA years in general, such as Clemson from 1900 to 1903. If 1900 Clemson were truly outright champions, then surely more than the UGA and Bama games were conference matchups, but I am at a loss to say which one. Wofford or Davidson seem best bets, but e. g. like you say Wofford wasn't there yet. Clemson didn't play Furman in 1900, but yes it seems Furman was a sporadic SIAA member, including years in which the school didn't have a football team. Cake (talk) 04:23, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

I do like how the credits make it seem like a dime store true crime story, and certain portions like the alleged players tie-ing their legs together seems so absurd and makes me laugh. The Bill Casey user had Davidson listed as conference games on various standings, and there is that old Saylor summary [2] (not sure how accurate it is) which has Furman, South Carolina, and Chattanooga listed for a year or two along with several others. UNC is listed 1895 to 1901. Honestly, I think decisions (including rules and eligibility) were decided by delegates from each school . Since the South in its sports infancy was just sort of creating their teams and styles, I would have probably paid to see one of those early Heisman teams play Yale or Princeton or an Ivy League champion. That probably would have been an epic game. SportsEdits1 (talk) 06:25, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Found another source with some great details and anecdotes about the Heisman years and some player details: [3] And a more summary type of article [4]. Cheers. SportsEdits1 (talk) 08:19, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Assuming you mean Heisman at Clemson, that win over Hunter Carpenter at VPI in 1900 is probably the closest thing to beating a northern school. The original first game against the South was Princeton 115 or 116 Virginia 0 in 1890, so the south had little respect for a long time. The second vindication of northern supremacy was Pop Warner's Pitt 32 Heisman's Tech 0 in 1918. There was Tech 41 Penn 0 in 1917, and close loss to Pitt in 1920. Davidson was in NC of course, and so not in the "cotton states" but the south atlantic, and so Wofford seems more likely as conference game. One can find a few references to Auburn as 1900 champs, but in nothing reliable. One media guide did praise it as their first undefeated season. The chapter on the 1908 season in Fuzzy Woodruff's A History of Southern Football is "Auburn Crowned Champion", and also see the team picture. Aside from Heisman himself, the article I've worked on the most which might pique your interest is Carl Sitton - arguably Heisman's best athlete while at Clemson. Note the Vandy connection with Ferdinand E. Kuhn (Heisman was president of the Atlanta team). As per your source, note the lack of subs on the rosters and depth charts for those Clemson teams. Cake (talk) 17:25, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I still would have loved to have witnessed in person an early form of Heisman's ideas and strategies in action before they became well known, copied, and more commonplace. Considering that it took several decades for football to spread to the South, and teams weren't really being organized until close to the turn of the century, I don't think anyone would dispute that. However, I wouldn't regionalize too much. American football was of course invented and reigned truly in the upper northeast among the eventual "Ivy League" schools at the time. I wouldn't consider VPI to be near that short list, although they did have a great player like a lot of upstart schools. Football was just too chaotic, too flash in the pan, and most schools too small and too poor to make grand generalizations comparing most schools to another. On a side note, as I recall reading, in 1918, many of Georgia Tech's best players from the previous seasons had gone to World War I. I also think there was a pandemic of Spanish Flu going around that time. Nice job on Carl Sitton. I will have to read more when I have time. SportsEdits1 (talk) 04:47, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Not pretending VPI is in the north, but along with UVA they played those ivy league schools occasionally, such that it's the closest thing Heisman's Clemson teams came to the north. Yes indeed 1918 Tech was a very different team than 1917 Tech, but not enough to ever live down 32 to 0. The big southern triumphs over the north would be 1910 Vandy/Yale and C6H0. Cake (talk) 16:29, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

FYI I've also done much work for Georgia Tech from 1915-1928. Cake (talk) 23:06, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Would be forever grateful if you could expand the pre-season sections on any of Heisman's Clemson SIAA title years, not to mention any of the games given too short a treatment. Cake (talk)

Matthew Lyon

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Matthew Lyon has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 15:22, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

A favor

Could you hack into this article for me? Lizard (talk) 04:40, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Can't hack, but here. Cake (talk) 10:25, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Of course, that's what I meant. I was actually looking for the column to the right of that one, under "Hot Dogs, Sodas," which mentions a boxing promoter offering Taylor and Huff a boxing match after watching the game on TV. Apparently the offer was turned down but it surely would've been interesting. Lizard (talk) 16:47, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I think there's more on it in this one, if you'd be so kind. Lizard (talk) 16:54, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Oh, oops. I guess I found myself interested in the whole page. Does this help? And here. Cake (talk) 17:26, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

1939 Big Ten Conference football season

I don't normally concern myself with ratings of articles, but every now and then I see one that makes me really scratch my head in disbelief. The above article is such a case. It has 21,000 bytes of information and includes 20 in-line citations. In what universe does that qualify as a "stub"? I assume this was an error? Cbl62 (talk) 23:50, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Take any rating of mine as a provisional "at least" rating - I certainly don't mind challenging it. It was most likely just a result of sorting the high importance season articles that I missed it was no stub. Cake (talk) 00:47, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

PS if you prefer the format you've used, by all means change the SEC and SoCon and SIAA and NCAA seasons to fit your style. I could say the same for the season articles of Vandy, Florida, Ga. Tech, Alabama, or any of the others. Cake (talk) 00:49, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

1920s Bama squads

Hello Cake! I have fleshed out a fair amount of details on both the 1923 and 1924 squads. I'll dig a bit more for some preseason and postseason stuff, but anything you may be able to add would be greatly appreciated as well. I used to be more interested in getting articles to GA, but have lost interest in the process. I am more than happy to contribute if you do submit any Bama articles for GA review in the future though. RTR! Patriarca12 (talk) 16:13, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Wonderful! 1922 to 1926 and 1930 seem the critical seasons for the Tide in the pre-SEC days. Along with Tech and Vandy, wikipedia is developing nice coverage of the football history in the Cotton States. Cake (talk) 17:09, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team has been completed.

In the "Before the Season" section I clarified several items with information from this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football - specifically the section "Evolution of the Game". I notice that this article also states that “teams were given four downs instead of three to advance the ball 10 yards” and reads as though this change occurred at the same time as the field length and end zone changes. If so, this should be added. You will also want to check that my clarifications as written are correct, I’m sure. (As an aside, I would not convert the lengths to metric as someone has done in this article – it’s completely unnecessary.)

In the Maryville section you write: "Despite the first two games being like practice games, the large scores were quite the surprise." This begs the unanswered question – Why?

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards and all the best for 2017,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 16:54, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much Typist. My one concern as it stands is that Freeland wasn't lost to the Texas Longhorns if I recall, but just to whatever business in Texas. Will try and check the sources. Cake (talk) 17:07, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, that is my incorrect reading of your text. I assumed because you had Texas linked - it linked to a team. I should have checked! Why don't you rearrange it to say "and guard Will Metzger and tackle Ewing Y. Freeland to business - Freeland's taking him to Texas. (I would unlink Texas as it is what WP refers to as an unnecessary geographic link that has no bearing on the article and would not advance a reader's understanding of the subject.) Twofingered Typist (talk) 20:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

I just recently linked it in hopes to distinguish it from the Longhorns. Unfortunately, the source seems to contrast losing Metzger to business to losing Freeland to Texas, as if he went for some other reason. Cake (talk) 03:56, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Josh Cody

Fantastic job on Josh Cody article!BillVol (talk) 01:04, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Will add some from Woodruff's History of Southern Football. Why the interest in Cody? With your name, Herman Hickman's article could still use expansion. Henry D. Phillips as well, if we are to focus on Tennessee. Cake (talk) 02:45, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Youngest NFL head coach?

The Rams just hired a 30 year old as their head coach, which ESPN is calling the youngest head coach in NFL history. However I find it hard to believe there wasn't a player-coach younger than that way back in the pre-war NFL, no? Lizard (talk) 02:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Art Lewis. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:14, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

And Jim Thorpe coached some quasi NFL teams. But surely there are better examples. Lizard (talk) 02:22, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Jimmy Conzelman was a player-head coach at the ripe age of 23 for the Rock Island Independents. --Jayron32 02:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Then Art Lewis's page is technically wrong. He's not the youngest. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:30, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Lewis' page doesn't cite any sources (of course), but lists this in the external links which claims he was the youngest. Lizard (talk) 02:32, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Those lists would be wrong too. Conzelman was a head coach at 23. See [5]. --Jayron32 02:36, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Know a lot more about the college ranks, but it's a good point. And good call on the Rock Island Independents. Cake (talk) 02:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

How about Curly Lambeau? Cake (talk) 02:44, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Better still. He was 21 as head coach of the Packers. --Jayron32 02:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Lambeau was age 22 years and five months at the start of the 1920 NFL season, the first NFL season. He edges out Ken Huffine, head coach of the 1920 Muncie Flyers, by three months. Cbl62 (talk) 03:44, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Now ESPN is specifying as "youngest in the Super Bowl era." And at first it was "youngest head coach ever hired," which means Lambeau wouldn't count, since he founded and owned the Packers. Lizard (talk) 04:03, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Youngest in the Super Bowl era is more sensible, and likely correct. The earlier young coaches I can recall were generally in their early-to-mid 30s. Jon Gruden was 35, Lane Kiffin was 31, John Madden was 33, at their first season as head coaches. I think Kiffin was the prior Super Bowl-era record holder. --Jayron32 14:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Sports media people don't actually do their own research, they just copy Wikipedia, didn't ya know? lol jk. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 04:08, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

List of Vanderbilt Commodores starting quarterbacks

I edited the page a little. I started at 11:45 pm and before I knew it, the time was 6:15. I left website sources but I do not think I keep the same them as how you was writing the code's. I like the idea of the page you have done a great job on it. MDSanker 12:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

I know the feeling. Well done. It doesn't look like you messed up any theme I had going or what have you. As for the idea, see Georgia Tech's article on the same for the model. And thank you. Still looking for the 1891 Vandy and 1918 Florida quarterbacks. Just recently found Malone Jr. in '93 thanks to Fuzzy Woodruff. Cake (talk) 18:32, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Union Bulldogs football coach navbox

Template:Union Bulldogs football coach navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 01:41, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

1908 LSU Tigers football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1908 LSU Tigers football team has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 21:23, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Death of Mary Jane Barker

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Death of Mary Jane Barker you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Legis -- Legis (talk) 19:41, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Split end

Do you think split end should redirect to Wide receiver (where it does now) or to End (American football)? I never encountered this ambiguity until Raymond Berry, who PFR lists as a left end and later a split end, NFL.com lists as an OE (?), and the pro HOF as just an end. Lizard (talk) 19:02, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

A wide receiver can be a flanker (behind the line) or a split end (on the line). A split end is contra tight end. Hard to say, but it seems ok. In hard cases between the transition from end to receivers, maybe one can link the "end" in split end. OE is offensive end. Bucky Curtis, say, was an end on offense but a back on defense. So was Charles Woodson. Cake (talk) 19:07, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

File:1924Stanfordcoaches.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:1924Stanfordcoaches.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 20:49, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

John Henry Wise

This might interest you. He played at Oberlin when Heisman was coach.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:59, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Will definitely check it out. I was wondering if you wanted to expand Sol Hoʻopiʻi. Cake (talk) 17:03, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Was the brutal days of the flying wedge. Cake (talk)

Too many copy-editing Requests

Hey there! Thanks for submitting copy-editing Requests to the Guild of Copy Editors. It looks like you didn't notice the fine print at the top of the page that says "You may have up to three open requests at any one time. This is enforced so that every request can have a fair chance of being fulfilled within a reasonable period."

Can you please withdraw one of your Requests from the page? Once any of your three remaining requests are processed, you are welcome to resubmit another. Thanks! – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:20, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

I did not notice that. My bad and will do. Cake (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. You are welcome to resubmit any time, as long as you stay under three simultaneous requests. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:42, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

GT Template Colors

Cake; another user is changing the colors on GT Templates again. As we "discussed," this happens every so often. Either I can address or you can address this issue with this user. It does not matter to me. However, you were the last one to update the colors for the GT Templates so you may want to address. Please let me know. Thanks - Mistercontributer (talk) 00:38, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Eh, I think white text looks better, but as long as the main color is gold I am okay with it. I just didn't want the Golden Tornado and Yellow Jackets to look like Penn State. Cake (talk) 03:18, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. However, the GT templates are currently not consistent with regards to the color scheme. Several templates have the new color scheme and others still have your old color scheme. My main concern has always been keeping the color scheme consistent for all GT templates. I will address this issue as appropriate. Thanks again - Mistercontributer (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) Blue on gold and white on gold are definitely not compliant. Would y'all favor doing black on gold? It's about the only one that is close to being compliant with WP:CONTRAST... Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 03:00, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
  • If it is the only way to make it compliant, I don't see why not. However, I think Georgia Tech uses navy in recent times a lot more than black, and so they might object, or at least want a navy border, or something. Cake (talk) 03:08, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

We can keep the navy border... that isn't a problem. We would just be changing the font color. If you want, I can try and find a color closer to a blue-gray that fits with GT? Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 03:31, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good to me with black text and a navy border, but I would hate to do it without hearing from more GT-minded editors like MisterContributer. Cake (talk) 04:07, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

I am OK with any color scheme which meets requirements: the GT templates must be easily readable, use GT colors, and all GT templates must have the same color scheme. Black text on gold background with navy border would meet these requirements. Mistercontributer (talk) 04:26, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

FYI Contributer, I recently got Fuzzy Woodruff's A History of Southern Football in three volumes, and as a writer from Atlanta he focuses on Tech more than anybody. Cake (talk) 12:49, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

That is great. As you know, GT was dominant in football in the early years, during the Heisman, Alexander, and Dodd eras. I wish that would have continued into the modern era. Also, you are doing great work on Wikipedia with regards to this subject. Your efforts are very much appreciated. Mistercontributer (talk) 13:13, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Tried to fix all the templates, and thank you contributor. I've nearly got decent season articles for every year from 1915 to 1928. We're a little bit bitter about that last year. The book referenced was published in 1928, so the last game it mentions is the 1927 Georgia/Georgia Tech game. There are also things like Fuzzy giving Tech the title in 1922 without even considering Vanderbilt. He also seems to give Leonard Wood the status as the third founding father of football in the Cotton States, just after Charles Herty of Georgia and George Petrie of Auburn. Always found it odd how Heisman gets the forward pass legalized in 1906 yet 1904 and 1905 were his best years before 1915. Cake (talk) 23:20, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Who knew this existed? Cake (talk) 15:26, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Was 1928 the first time Tech wore navy? See this shot of Warner Mizell. Cake (talk) 15:40, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

1899 Sewanee Tigers football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1899 Sewanee Tigers football team has been completed.

I wanted to draw your attention to a possible oversight. There is no player list provided for the Mississippi game.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 22:16, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Matthew Lyon

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Running back/halfback; where's the line, I wonder

I've noticed the "halfback" position is basically extinct for more recent players. Every single player post~1975 that played in the halfback position is listed on Wikipedia as a "running back." Even in the years after one-platoon, it seems they were still called halfbacks. Steve Van Buren, Hugh McElhenny, Gale Sayers were all clearly halfbacks. Yet 3 years after Sayers, Walter Payton, playing the same position in the same offense, is a "running back." (On that note, is there any franchise with a more storied history of running backs? Grange, Nagurski, Sayers, Payton...) I'm a stickler for standardization, but perhaps it's a case-by-case thing. Lizard (talk) 15:31, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

If halfback is synonymous with tailback, it's far from extinct; if it means one of two players in front of the fullback who can pass the ball, it's long dead. I'm not sure when "fullback" started to mean the one half-way back and the "halfback" started to mean the tailback. When a pro-set with one RB starts might give a hint. One should add that Grange and Sayers are both all-time greats in the return game, Nagurski and Payton could pass well, and all could catch the ball. Cake (talk) 17:38, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

I mean the name, not necessarily the position. Adrian Peterson definitely lines up as what would have been called a halfback in the 1960s, but today he's always just a "running back." Lizard (talk) 06:14, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Sports Illustrated Attack of the Gators.jpg

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Matthew Lyon

	Congratulations, it's a...
	...Wikipedia Good Article!! Shearonink (talk) 08:30, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Great to see the original article I sourced at any length has improved. Cake (talk) 01:44, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Matthew Lyon

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Orphaned non-free image File:FairPark1923.jpg

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Ferdinand E. Kuhn

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Ferdinand E. Kuhn has been completed.

I did reorder some of the material but I think the way you structured the article makes sense.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much, two-fingered. Several improvements in wording. What was the "AE" source you added? Cake (talk) 22:15, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

I have to wonder, possible ancestor of John Kuhn? That's the only other time I've seen or heard that surname. Lizard (talk) 06:56, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

I doubt it. Bowie Kuhn is probably the biggest sports fellow with the name. With Ferdinand's Catholic and Swabian connections, I wonder if Johannes von Kuhn is a relative. There's also the Jewish Kuhns, like Thomas. Cake (talk) 16:01, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

State sports halls of fame still to go

Maryland, New Mexico, North Dakota, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, Washington, D.C., West Virginia. Any of those tickle your fancy? A good Samaritan knocked out Tennessee Sports Hall of Fame a few months ago, which I figure would have been most up your alley. Although it's pretty much the bare minimum of an article. Lizard (talk) 04:12, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Made a few stubs. Cake (talk) 06:23, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

File:1924Stanfordcoaches.jpg listed for discussion

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DYK for Matthew Lyon

On 7 March 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Matthew Lyon, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that while jailed on charges of violating the Sedition Act, Matthew Lyon was re-elected to Congress? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Matthew Lyon. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Matthew Lyon), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BU Rob13 -- BU Rob13 (talk) 04:02, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

• This is taking me longer to get to than expected, but just confirming it's still on my radar and I'll be getting to it as soon as possible. I hope to have a first pass done by the end of this weekend. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 06:45, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Florida Agricultural College football coach navbox

Template:Florida Agricultural College football coach navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 02:38, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 31

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Trippi

I'll be working on Charley Trippi next. Looks like he and Sinkwich really poured it on Florida in 1942. What a backfield that was. Lizard (talk) 16:21, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Sure did. Harold Ketron supposedly recruited him. This is a neat video. Also, apparently Abner Powell was the founding father of New Orleans baseball. Cake (talk) 22:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Looks like you're right about Ketron. He apparently had an eye for talent. Trippi was 6'0 and 160 lbs out of high school, so the string bean was turned down by 4 colleges. Lizard (talk) 16:50, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

At least one guy wasn't impressed with Trippi's monster salary with the Cardinals. Lizard (talk) 02:08, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:1921Hawkeyes.jpg

Do you have any additional source information for this image? (If so, respond there?)  czar 21:27, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

You're invited...

 Note: You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Navigation boxes in coaching articles (again) regarding the issue of whether or not the navboxes in coaching articles should be collapsed or stay as is. Please comment there and not here. Thanks, Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 22:46, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Gacy

Hi, MisterCake. Thx. for your edits on the John Wayne Gacy article. Gonna be interesting to see whether they are disputed or not. As stated before, I am "sitting on the fence" with this issue and references. Regards, Kez.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:13, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Congrats!

		The Good Article Barnstar
		Congratulations for your Good Article promotion, Death of Mary Jane Barker! It was a pleasure reviewing the article and working on it with you. Very interesting article, I hope to cross paths with you in the future. Cheers! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 14:03, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Death of Mary Jane Barker

The article Death of Mary Jane Barker you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Death of Mary Jane Barker for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Legis -- Legis (talk) 14:22, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Stopped by for a second

Hey I have not done much but had to add to an article after I just read re crazy controversy. Here it is Hypatia: A Journal of Feminist Philosophy. Thought you'd be interested, hope all is going well. Rybkovich (talk) 03:54, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

The article 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BU Rob13 -- BU Rob13 (talk) 18:41, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BU Rob13 -- BU Rob13 (talk) 04:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

The article 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BU Rob13 -- BU Rob13 (talk) 06:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Dan McGugin

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Dan McGugin you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Kaiser matias -- Kaiser matias (talk) 01:40, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

The article 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BU Rob13 -- BU Rob13 (talk) 22:01, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Second pass

I've done my second pass at Talk:1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team/GA2. Please take a look at the comments when you have a chance. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 00:40, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Dan McGuigin GAC

Just a question regarding the GAC. I'm just waiting to hear from you regarding the final point, as to whether it is possible to expand the section on his law career at all, or if that is all that's available. It's been a few days now, so I just want to check in on that. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:10, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

The article 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BU Rob13 -- BU Rob13 (talk) 05:21, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Dan McGugin

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Replaceable fair use File:VelHeckman.jpg

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Carleton Knights football navbox

Template:Carleton Knights football navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 23:04, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of 1905 Wabash Little Giants football team for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1905 Wabash Little Giants football team is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1905 Wabash Little Giants football team until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  18:35, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Fielding H. Yost

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Fielding H. Yost has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

I feel the article is organized in a logical manner, so I can't think of a way myself that this might be improved.

The coaching "tree", in alphabetical order also makes sense, but in some respects it might be better if it was hived off into an article of its own. You've obviously done a ton of research, and spent hours citing it. A GA reviewer may feel this section, as it stands now, includes far too much intricate detail for the "average" reader and only the most notable individuals should appear in the article, handled in a paragraph.

Good luck with the GAN

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 21:40, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Harrias -- Harrias (talk) 18:21, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I've put up some initial thoughts; I can see you haven't been that active lately. Could you respond on the GA in the next few days before I complete a full review to let me know you're active and able to deal with anything that comes up? Harrias ^talk 11:58, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

The article 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Harrias -- Harrias (talk) 10:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of 1883 Carleton Knights football team for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1883 Carleton Knights football team is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

- Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 19:46, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of 1882 Hamline Pipers football team for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1882 Hamline Pipers football team is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1882 Hamline Pipers football team until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.- Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 03:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Hamline Pipers football navbox

Template:Hamline Pipers football navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 03:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

William Henry Poole

You created William Henry Poole and he had an interesting life after his college football days. I found the article because I have been filling in missing birth days based on a Wikidata search I perform. Peek at his Wikimedia Commons page and see what documents I found. At first I wasn't sure that the two people were the same, but your reference placed him as a theological student. --RAN (talk) 14:59, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Nice find on a troubled soul. Some sources say he was from Glyndon, Maryland, but I never found anything about that. Cake (talk) 16:56, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

His father was from there, before Florida. His mother was from Manhattan. Do you have a free account at Familysearch? After I do the research I create an entry for the person at Familysearch and then add the link to Wikidata. Familysearch has all the documents that Ancestry.com has, but for free. The LDS church owns the site. --RAN (talk) 23:30, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Also check out this search at Flickr Commons here. The Library of Congress has some amazing early photos from 1910-1920 of college football players, some still only identified by their name, in need of context. Here is a typical one. Here is one where some context has been added --RAN (talk) 23:33, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

I see now. Looks like Poole and I might both be descendants of Mareen Duvall. Yes I often use familysearch, and have used flickr and LOC before. Looking again though, there's a much nicer picture of Ed Hart here. Though I try to focus on the South. My best find might be this one of Red Barron scoring on Penn State. Cake (talk) 17:27, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

The article 1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:1912 Vanderbilt Commodores football team for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Harrias -- Harrias (talk) 21:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

All-Southern Basketball Teams

Saw you’d created these in recent weeks. After the formation of the Southern Conference in 1921, aren’t these just effectively all-conference teams? If so, should they be separate articles from that point or should it be a combined list like List of All-Pac-12 Conference men's basketball teams? Feels like a bit much for separate articles for yearly all-conference teams if that’s what they are. Fully appreciate that prior to 1921 it was a broader net. Thoughts? Rikster2 (talk) 13:44, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

My prior experience is with the football teams. I am only just learning about the baseball and basketball teams. With fewer players on a basketball team, maybe the list is the way to go. Even on a list article I would distinguish between before and after 1932. I also wonder how that will handle multiple selectors. The same problem arises before 1921 and the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association, though with the establishment of the Southern Conference basketball tournament it seems the All-Southern team was effectively synonymous with the All SoCon Tournament team. Before then, there are several All-Southern teams which I have been reluctant to add, which obviously take the notion regionally and not in the sense of a conference, for they include the likes of the Columbus Athletic Club and the Birmingham Athletic Club. Cake (talk) 14:14, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

I just worry that individual pages for an All-Conference team is a bad precedent. It would be reasonable that a new editor might see what is effectively a 1927 All-SoCon team article and conclude that there should be a separate page for the 2018 All-SoCon team. And then why not the 1970 All-Big Sky team? These lists usually are fairly straightforward and is a separate page needed to show 5 players? I think we could navigate the different selectors - that occurs today with leagues like the Big 10, and actually the SoCon as well, who both select official Media and Coaches all-conference teams. Rikster2 (talk) 14:23, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

If that's how the basketball projects handle it, I won't object to moving it. Of course, 1927 All-SoCon and 2018 All-SoCon are very different, with the former being something like both All-ACC and All-SEC. I don't know as much about "northern bias" keeping southern players off of All-America teams in basketball, though I wonder why Jack Cobb is not in the hall of fame. Cake (talk) 14:34, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Eh, not really that different. The SoCon had a bigger membership, but it's still the All-League team of that year. The league split off the SEC and ACC in subsequent years, but it was still just a conference and one that continues to this day, which is why this gets tricky for editors trying to figure out where the line should be. I haven't noticed much of a Northern bias in basketball All-America teams and I have done a lot of work on these articles and the players in them. I am a Carolina grad so I fully agree on Cobb, but the Basketball HOF is so inconsistent (especially with respect to players from 75+ years ago) that I just chalk it up to that. Rikster2 (talk) 14:40, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Wish I knew more about the game back then. Curious that the 1924 team article does not mention Monk McDonald as a letterwinner. Cake (talk) 15:17, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

There is a good book called (I think) “Cages to jump shots” that talks about this era. The game was pretty different then. Before 1937, the teams had a center jump after every made basket. Between that rule change, the evolution of the jump shot in the early 40s and the advent of the national tournaments in 1938, the game went through a lot of change in that time. The late thirties are generally thought of as the birth of the modern era. Rikster2 (talk) 15:53, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of 1921 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

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Your signature

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[[User:MisterCake|<font color="#000000">'''Cake'''</font>]] ([[User talk:MisterCake#top|talk]]) : Cake (talk)

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Thank you for updating your signature! —Anomalocaris (talk) 06:42, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of John Heisman

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article John Heisman you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 14:40, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy holidays!

What better way to celebrate the holidays (and bowl season) than "Touchdown Jesus"!
Best wishes for a happy and healthy 2018!
Cbl62 (talk) 17:59, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Merry Christmas Cbl. I like the fellow with the harp-thing. The band is out on the field. Cake (talk) 22:35, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of John Heisman

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Florida State football

"Florida State College" is on the exact site as "Florida State University". Many of FSC's buildings are part of FSU's campus. W.W. Hughes remained at Florida State after the Buckman Act, and there is a building in the Latin program named for him today. In Florida State's Intro to Freshman Life class, the pre-Buckman Act football team is taught about by the University as the original football program, although it is also taught that there was a break in co-ed sports, due to the Buckman Act. You can see that, in the sources I used, many of them are from the university itself. Florida State recognizes this football team as part of its history and legacy. Other colleges, such as the pre-cursor to Georgia Tech and Auburn count these seasons as part of their football team, so I feel it is important to add these to Florida State football, with the distinction about the Buckman Act and UF taking FSU's coach and most of its players post-Buckman. This seems to be in line with how other schools forced to segregate are treated. IE: Florida A&M College for Negroes vs. Florida A&M University. These are recognized as the same school, even in light of the significant name change, mission of the school and who government allowed to attend. Thoughts?Norris.michaelj (talk) 15:30, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

If the school treats it as the same, I defer to it. My experience is with Florida, which sees Florida Agricultural College, East Florida Seminary, etc as all distinct. Even though East Florida Seminary was in Gainesville, the first year of Florida football is 1906. I thought, similarly, even though the West Florida Seminary was in Tallahassee, FSU's first year of football was 1947. Cake (talk) 16:01, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

You can see where FSU recognizes those seasons as part of the schools history here: http://seminoles.com/trads_fsu-trads-colors/ , here: https://www.fsu.edu/about/history.html, ESPN recognizes them here: http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/stadium/_/id/52 , and the local chapter of the boosters claim them here: http://www.tallahasseeseminoleclub.com/fsu-traditions/ , as well as a blog written by Florida State's library system here: https://fsuspecialcollections.wordpress.com/tag/florida-state-seminoles-football/. So, unless someone is still opposed, I would like to restore the links connecting these teams to the current era FSU teams, while making sure the Buckman distinction is included.

Also, in regards to their membership in the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA): In the Vol. 70, No. 1 (Jul., 1991) edition of the Florida Historical Society Journal, pp. 20-37 “Before the Seminoles: Football at Florida State College, 1902-1904” it is stated “Coach Hughes informed the players, however, that the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA) restricted cash prizes for college games.” That reads as Florida State had to abide by the requirements of the Association, which they would only have to do as members of the association. That would mean that they are not independent, but members of the association. Thoughts?Norris.michaelj (talk) 19:00, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

As above I defer to the university to handle its own history, though I wonder whether one says "FSU football started in 1947" and refers to this time as part of its pre-history, like UF does, or "FSU football started in 1902, with a long hiatus from 1905 to 1946", as one might with Stetson or Mercer. Auburn's yearbook has a list of SIAA members for 1903, and no Florida school is on it. I have to wonder whether the quote is referring to a game with Georgia Tech or something, and doubt that FSC was ever a member. Cake (talk) 19:50, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

References

Merger discussion for Joseph Reilly

An article that you have been involved in editing—Joseph Reilly—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Korny O'Near (talk) 22:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

DYK for John Heisman

On 16 January 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article John Heisman, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Heisman Trophy, awarded annually to the best college football player, is named for John Heisman, who was instrumental in legalizing the forward pass? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/John Heisman. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, John Heisman), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:03, 16 January 2018 (UTC)