Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/History and geography

General Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 Level 5

Level 5 Subpages

People History and geography Society STEM

Introduction

The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.

Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:

Voting count table (>60%)

P = passes F = fails		opposing votes
		0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
0	supporting votes	–	–	–	–	F	F	F	F	F	F
1		–	–	–	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
2		–	–	F	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
3		–	F	F	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
4		P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
5		P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F	F
6		P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F	F
7		P	P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F
8		P	P	P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F
9		P	P	P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F

1. Before being closed, a Level 5 proposal must:
   1. Run for at least 14 days days; AND
   2. Allow at least 7 days after the most recent vote; AND
   3. Have at least 4 participants.
2. For a proposal to be implemented on the Level 5 list:
   1. It must have over 60% support (see table); AND
   2. It must have at least 4 support votes !votes.

For reference, the following times apply for today:

• 14 days ago is: 14:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
• 7 days ago is: 14:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

The following link represent all current Level 5 Vital articles that are classified as History and Geography subjects:

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/History

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Physical

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Countries

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Cities

Swap Fredericton out for Moncton

Moncton's been NB's largest city since before V5 existed. I think Fredericton would be the most appropriate article to swap out since we only have 42 US state capitals and we can cut a Canadian provincial capital. Canada also looks a bit overrepresented at V5 with 22 cities and a population of 39 million. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 13:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
3. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 21:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal, support addition - We are under quota in Cities and Fredericton seems important in its own right (as the cultural, educational and administrative center of the province). --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   New Brunswick has a population of under 900k, and Saint John is much more important than Fredericton, so it and Moncton should be NB’s two representatives at V5. Vileplume (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I don't doubt that Saint John is important too. Why can't we have three cities for New Brunswick? -Makkool (talk) 14:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   Q3 2023 population ~843k. Quebec’s three largest cities are all larger than any of NB’s, yet Sherbrooke is not V5. Vileplume (talk) 15:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

• Comment to stop automatic archiving. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Add Primate city

A general city-related topic that seems vital. Would fit well next to capital city. --Makkool (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Although it's a bit too much of a term as opposed to a concept for my liking. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Without a doubt. Interstellarity (talk) 19:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add decades of the 19th century

I don't know if this will be a popular opinion, but we could possibly discuss whether to extend the decades we list to the 19th century since we now list all the decades of the 20th and 21st century. We don't have to include all the decades, just the ones that are important. Interstellarity (talk) 01:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

Oppose

1. Vileplume (talk) 17:31, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

• In order for us to seriously consider them, please list them individually. We need to at least see individual links to consider this seriously-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

  @TonyTheTiger: Articles affected: 1800s (decade), 1810s, 1820s, 1830s, 1840s, 1850s, 1860s, 1870s, 1880s, 1890s. Interstellarity (talk) 14:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

  I think these would meet with better success as separated discussions, IMO.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:26, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Mobile, Alabama

Alabama's second-largest city and a major port on the Gulf Coast (twelfth-largest in the U.S.). It was also a key center of French colonization and played a major role in the Civil War.

Support

1. As nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 10:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, the second largest city warrants a place --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   City proper is not the best metric. In metro population, it’s Birmingham, Huntsville, Mobile, and Montgomery. Vileplume (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

4. Third largest metro area. Bigger than Montgomery, which is already listed. Interstellarity (talk) 00:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too many US cities of regional importance only. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

1. This is a V5-ish city of importance, but Alabama only has a population of 5 million inhabitants and 4 major cities, so I'd only support this if we removed Montgomery or Tuskegee. Sarasota is also over twice as large and not listed. Vileplume (talk) 17:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

   I considered proposing a swap, but both Montgomery and Tuskegee were proposed for removal recently and kept with strong opposition to removing. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

Add Battle of Guilford Court House

The American Revolutionary War  4 could definitely use more than 3 battles when the Civil War has 16. This battle had major effects on the war, led to the Siege of Yorktown  5 which ended the war, became the first American Revolution battle to have its battlefield preserved by the National Park Service, and it even has a town in New Hampshire named after it!

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support as a swap with some Civil War battle, 16 is way too many. Oppose otherwise. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

   Which battle would you suggest removing? QuicoleJR (talk) 13:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 16 Civil War battles is too many but the Civil War was still fought on a greater order of magnitude than the American Revolutionary War. (The biggest Civil War battles killed more than the entire Revolution). And if we added another American Revolutionary War battle, I'd add Trenton or Brandywine before this one. _pbp 12:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

Remove Blida  5

Being one of the 58 provincial capitals in Algeria does not make a city vital. Population is not that high and there is not very much historical importance. All it has going for it is having the home stadium for the Algeria national football team, which is not vital. It is also very close to the capital, further decreasing its vitality. Decent number of interwikis, but that is likely for the same reason as the U.S. state capitals. Overall, this city just doesn't have enough going for it to make the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

   I would support either of the swaps listed below. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Per nom. Would support a swap with Tlemcen or Bejaia. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 10 cities for Algeria seems about right ratio-wise and in general, I'm inclined to oppose any city removal unless it's blatantly obvious it shouldn't be included because we are actually under-quota for Cities. However, I would support a swap with either Tlemcen (former capital of Medieval Muslim Algeria, more populous, other important historical events) or Béjaïa (largest city in Kabylia which is a region of Algeria that is large enough, culturally unique enough, and significant enough to the history of Algeria that it should also be at VA5 imo, 6th largest port on the Mediterranean, more populous). Aurangzebra (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per Aurangzebra, although I would support either of the swaps. Vileplume (talk) 22:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• Bilda is the fourth largest city of Algeria, Sidi Bel Abbès  5 seems like a better removal. The Blue Rider 18:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Strangely, that metric at list of cities in Algeria shows the population of Blida as over 100k more than the article on Blida does, despite being only four years older. Blida has the lowest population among the listed cities going by what the infoboxes in the articles say. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Allied-occupied Germany

A relatively short-lived but deeply contentious occupation that defined the status quo of postwar Europe.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Important. Kevinishere15 (talk) 01:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Short-lived.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• West Germany  5 and East Germany  5 are already listed, I think that sufficiently covers it, no? The Blue Rider 21:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Both of those states were formed after the direct occupation/administration period, which is what this article is focused on Iostn (talk) 16:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

  West and East Germany are concepts that were created during the allied-occupied Germany, not just after it. The Blue Rider 18:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Add History of Go

Go (game)  4 is VA4 and has been around for over two millennia, and the History of Games section is way too sports-based. The only other board game history article we have listed currently is History of chess  5, and I think that there is room for a second one.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'm aware that History of gambling does not exist as an article, but it would be the first "history of [game]" topic I'd want to add to the list if it does. I feel like "the most important game for which we have a separate History article on" is not a very good reason to include it, because it probably excludes more important topics which should be added first. I also think sports in general are more popular than games globally, and the greater element of competition in these sports means they have had a more developed history. The average Chinese person probably cares a lot more about, say, the China women's national volleyball team than they care about the game of Go, despite Go being strongly associated with China. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. I feel there's too much of "history of X thing" articles already listed. Go (game)  4 is sufficient. Makkool (talk) 16:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I beliebe mancala is older and played more. The Blue Rider 00:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

  History of mancala does not exist as an article. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not convinced that "history of [recreational item]" is a particularly important class of articles for us to include on this list. Most articles on entertainment and recreation topics are not long enough to warrant splitting out its History section into a separate article. Our article on Doll  4 for example is mostly about the history of dolls, which is fine – there is no issue with not having History of dolls as a separate article, nor is the lack of inclusion of such an article on the V5 list a sign that we don't regard it as an important topic. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Mdina

Mdina, Malta holds significant historical importance for the country of Malta:

• Its predecessor, the ancient city of Melite, was founded by Phoenicians around 800 BC, it was under Roman rule until 870 AD.
• It was captured and besieged multiple times throughout its hitsory, this demonstrates its long-standing vitality. Notable events include: Capture of Malta (218 BC), Siege of Melite (870), Siege of Medina (1053–1054), Norman invasion of Malta (1091) and Invasion of Gozo (1551).
• It served as Malta's first capital, from The Middle Ages until the 14th century.
• Mdina boasts architecturally important structures, such as Greeks Gate, Domvs Romana, Temple of Proserpina, Temple of Apollo, Vilhena Palace and Mdina Gate (see Mdina#Places of interest for a more comprehensive list).
• The city is closely linked to the historical event of Paul the Apostle's shipwreck in Malta. The island's governor, Saint Publius, received him in Mdina. Paul converted the entire island to Christianity and made Publius the 1st Bishop of Malta, who is now a patron saint of the country. Mdina is home to St Paul's Cathedral, serving as the seat of government for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Malta
• Mdina is a significant tourist destination, welcoming over 1.5 million visitors annually.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 00:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I think we Valletta is enough for Malta, for country with that low population. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

   This would most certainly be listed under Historical cities. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

   Historical cities is not meant for cities where people still live. It's meant for places that are archaelogical sites for example. Makkool (talk) 19:40, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Yes, the current population is only of a few hundreds but historically it had an higher population comparatively to the rest of the country. The Blue Rider 00:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, but most would ignore current population for historical settlements. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Swap Bratsk  5 with Novokuznetsk

Bratsk is already covered by Irkutsk  5 and Irkutsk Oblast  5. Novokuznetsk, on the other hand, is a major coal mining and industrial centre and has the 16th highest GMP of all Russian cities. Up until recently, it had a higher population than Kemerovo  5. It feels odd excluding it from a list of 6 cities in the Siberian Federal District, let alone 12. Compared to Bratsk, Novo has slightly more interwikis, double the English and Russian pageviews, and 2.4 times the population. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:27, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:27, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Bratsk has 53 daily page views, which quite low. Makkool (talk) 12:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Treaty of Trianon

Had a profound impact on Central and Eastern Europe. The loss of about two-thirds of Hungary's pre-war landmass and population fueled nationalist sentiments and political instability, while internationally, it solidified the post-WWI order, leading to the creation or enlargement of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Austria and Romania.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:44, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Remove Factional violence in Libya (2011–2014)  5

Same reasoning as above.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per above. Gizza (talk) 01:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:44, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Trinity (nuclear test)

Important subtopic of the Manhattan Project. Interstellarity (talk) 13:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 13:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Political history of the world

We list the academic field, but not the actual political history. Interstellarity (talk) 01:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 01:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:59, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Gizza (talk)01:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Temperance movement and Teetotalism

Surprised these are not listed. Abstaining from alcohol is an important concept. Interstellarity (talk) 13:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 13:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support temperance movement. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Remove some historical cities stubs

Since I'm here, I took a look at the stub-rated articles, and I got to be honest, I don't think these articles are ever going to improve.

Remove Nagasaki foreign settlement

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

It's not even its own article in Japanese Wikipedia.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 2 iwikis, 5 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap with Dejima. The Blue Rider 22:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Remove per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Sukhothai (city)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This is apparently a World Heritage Site, yet despite being written in 2004, it has only gained a couple of paragraphs.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 4 iwikis (Thai not being one of them), 23 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:36, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

I would support a swap with Sukhothai Historical Park which refers to the UNESCO World Heritage Site. Gizza (talk) 05:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Talianki (archaeological site)  5

Both projects it's in rate the article as low importance.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 4 iwikis, 23 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I don't know about this. The article says that it is thought to be "currently the largest known settlement in Neolithic Europe". Could the article's importance rating be misjudged? Makkool (talk) 21:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Remove Onondaga (village)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This article doesn't even have fifty edits.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 4 iwikis, 50 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Battle of Muye

Considered one of the most important battles in East Asian history. _pbp 20:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Battle of the Catalaunian Plains

Another battle strategic to world history that is missing from the list _pbp 03:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 03:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

_pbp 03:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Bessarabia

Currently we list Banat, Galicia, Pomerania and Silesia. Bessarabia is another historical region of Europe with relevance in the modern day.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:20, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Decided to land on this side. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I would support historical regions like this, but it's really just Moldova  4 with Transnistria  4 traded for Budjak and part of Chernivtsi Oblast  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Brașov

Brașov has a metropolitan area population of around 350k, making it the fifth-largest city in Romania, and in the same boat as the other Romanian cities on the list, excluding Bucharest  4 and Târgu Mureș  5. I would propose a swap with the latter, but I'd weakly oppose the removal since we're 25 under quota in Cities. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with Târgu Mureș Makkool (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap with Târgu Mureș Interstellarity (talk) 00:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: I understand if I am overestimating Romania's importance, but what is your rationale? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   I think 8 cities for Romania is just about enough. I would actually support a swap with Târgu Mureș, but not a straight-up add. Makkool (talk) 19:13, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   I just thought we could have another Romanian city since it is the most populous country in the Balkans  4 (a region that may warrant V3). Mures gets its importance from being the largest city in the Hungarian-speaking Székely Land  5, but I'm not sure if having both the region and the city is necessary.

   Demographically speaking, Mureș has a much weaker case. The largest FUAs in Romania are Bucharest  4 (2.221m), Iași  5 (395k), Cluj-Napoca  5 (386k), Timișoara  5 (352k), Brașov (348k), Constanța  5 (346k), Craiova  5 (264k), Ploiești (248k), Galați  5 (244k), and Oradea (201k). Mureș is a long way down, at 156k. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   Bulgaria, Hungary and the Czech Republic have 4 cities each, and their population is about half of Romania's, so that's the reasoning for 8 cities. I've changed my stance now from oppose to swap. Makkool (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

   Hmm, Bulgaria has five cities (Sofia at V4, Plovdiv, Varna, Burgas, and Ruse) and a population of under 7 million. Are the five of them really all important enough for V5? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Add First Battle of Panipat

A very important engagement in Indian history as it marked the beginning of the Mughal Empire  3 and the dissolution of the Delhi Sultanate  4.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support Gizza (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Causes of World War I

Covers several events that may not be vital in themselves but together are quite important, such as the First Moroccan Crisis, the Bosnian Crisis, the Agadir Crisis, and the Anglo-German naval arms race. It is ranked Top Importance by WikiProject European History, same as Causes of World War II  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. We list Causes of World War II, may support Causes of the Great Depression. Interstellarity (talk) 00:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

1. How many war causation articles are at VA?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:17, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Swap Crimes against humanity under communist regimes with Katyn massacre  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Framing aside, we already have Mass killings under communist regimes  5, which covers a lot of the same ground. For a more definite example, the decimation of Poland's leadership class in the Katyn Massacre was one of the most notorious war crimes by the Soviet Union.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 10:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Iostn (talk) 22:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Kingdom of Nri  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

A kingdom in Africa that was seemingly influential for centuries and existed for 1000 years. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Nigeria and Top-Importance by WikiProject Igbo.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:42, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support - good find Gizza (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Some post-Soviet regions

Add Central Federal District

It has by far the highest population (40m+) and GDP (~566b) of Russia's federal districts. Should most certainly be at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Strong support as nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Interstellarity (talk) 11:32, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Moscow Oblast

Major component of the Moscow metropolitan area with a population of ~8.5m and a GDP of $72 billion. Most certainly more vital than the vast majority of the republics. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Krasnodar Krai

The Kuban is a culturally distinct region of Russia with a population of ~5.8m. and a GDP of $35 billion. Most certainly more vital than the vast majority of the republics. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Donbas  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

A historically relevant region of Ukraine that only became more relevant during the Russo-Ukrainian War  5. 3 of the 24 Ukrainian cities we list are located in the region and so was one-seventh of the pre-war population. I'd probably support this at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 01:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Great Hungarian Plain and possibly Northern Hungary

Along with Transdanubia, which I proposed above, these are the three main regions of Hungary. GHP is rated High-importance in WP Hungary and most of its other WikiProjects. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Might Pannonian Basin be a better fit? J947 ‡ ^edits 22:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd support that under Physical geography and the other two under Country subdivisions. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Add all 7 geographical regions of Türkiye

Türkiye and Iran have comparable populations, but Iran gets over twice as many cities as Türkiye. Iran also has all but two of its provinces and Türkiye has NOTHING under country subdivisions? The geographical regions of Turkey are definitely all vital at this level. The articles in question are:

We should have a bit more from Türkiye, but this is just a start. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Aegean Region

Population ~ 10.5m. Largest city is İzmir  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Black Sea Region

Population ~ 7.7m. Largest city is Samsun  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Central Anatolia Region

Population ~ 12.9m. Largest city is Ankara  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Eastern Anatolia Region

Population ~ 6.5m. Largest city is Van, Turkey  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Marmara Region

Population ~ 26.7m. Largest city is Istanbul  3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Mediterranean Region, Turkey

Population ~ 10.6m. Largest city is Antalya  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Southeastern Anatolia Region

Population ~ 8.6m. Largest city is Urfa  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

General discussion

1. Not sure I am comfortable adding these as a group.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

   I will reformat my proposal. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:36, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Cappadocia (not OP)

We should list some of the historical regions as well. Cappadocia definitely, as its still relevant today and a popular tourist destination. Place under Central Anatolia Region.

Support

1. As nom.Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Dobruja

We list the Wallachia  4, Moldavia  4, and Transylvania  4 at V4 and Székely Land  5 at V5. Dobruja is another significant region of Romania and Bulgaria that is not part of the V4 regions. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:53, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Historical cities additions

Add Kowloon Walled City

Quite important to the history of Hong Kong.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. very iconic feminist🩸 (talk) 02:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Londinium

The capital of Roman Britain, predecessor to modern-day London.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Lutetia

A major settlement in Gaul, predecessor to modern-day Paris.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Euskadi Ta Askatasuna

Major separitist group that was active during many decades in the Basque Country, an armed conflict so big that it had France, Spain and the European Union on their back (see Basque conflict). In its begginings, it was created to oppose the dictatorship of Franco, but soon their started kidnapping, exploding and shoot many civilians and police men, the deathpool reached 829. Several attacks are notable, such as 1980 Markina attack, 1980 Ispaster attack, July 1979 Madrid bombings, Assassination of Juan María de Araluce Villar, among many others. The Blue Rider 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Prefer this at V5 over Bilbao at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
3. I'm surprised this wasn't already included. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Agree this is a surprising omission. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Genetic history of Africa  5 and Genetic history of Europe  5

Too specific and the WikiProjects don't care very much. The parent topic, Archaeogenetics  5, is only VA5.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add Languedoc and Midi-Pyrénées

All of the pre-2016 regions of France should have representation imo. These were the two regions that were merged into Occitania  5 in 2016. Languedoc in particular was kept at V4 for an extended amount of time during the cull. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add 180th meridian

Similar in importance to international date line and prime meridian. Interstellarity (talk) 21:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 21:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add States and union territories of India

We list other countries, this is the most notable country not listed. Interstellarity (talk) 00:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 00:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Lists should not have a place in WP:VA. The Blue Rider 13:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

   A lot of the article is on the history of India's administrative divisions, so it should not be compared to something like List of sovereign states. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

   I didn't compare this list with any other; the vast majority of the article is listing the states and union territories, so it is a list and is marked as so. The Blue Rider 14:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

   Also, this article failed a GA review precisely because it is a list and lists can't be GA. The Blue Rider 14:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

2. Whether this article should be listed at VA5 is in my opinion contingent not on if India's states and union territories are individually important enough, but on if the very delineation of India into states is itself a sufficiently important encyclopaedic topic. In my opinion, this does not quite reach that bar (and neither does U.S. state, or any other such division). J947 ‡ ^edits 22:49, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Add Cambridge

It's University is listed at level 4. Cambridge's history goes back over 800 years, we list English places such as Milton Keynes which was founded in the 1960's. The whole county of Cambridgeshire was named after it. We list English towns like Dover which have less than a quarter the population of the city of Cambridge. Internationally people seem more interested in Cambridge which appears in 124 languages, compared with Milton Keynes which appears in less than half at 61; Dover, Northampton, Derby, Luton, Norwich which are all listed also appear in under 100 languages compared to Cambridge's 124.

Support

1. Support as nom.  Carlwev  11:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Strong support, much more vital than Cambridge, Massachusetts  5 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 15:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Roman Britain

This was suggested at level 4 over 10 years ago, had some support, but more opposition and was not added. (see here) Main argument was why Roman Britain and not all the other Roman provinces. However I think the topic is definately important enough for level 5. . I'm not opposing them but we are listing, or will be soon, British Hong Kong, and New Amsterdam, which concern the history of an individual city for a number of centuries or less. In the case of New Amsterdam, concerns a population of around 2500 people for 50 years. Istanbul is level 3, Constantinople level 4 and Byzantium level 5, although that covers many centuries. Also Many of the early English monarchs we list, cover mainly what they did in the decades or years they were in power over the land. Roman Britain covers the whole of England and Wales for 350 years. If one were to study as a general reader or a specialist, anything to do with British history, Roman Britain would be a topic in and of itself before every individual monarch standing alone. There are many books on this very subject, and it appears as a topic/section in more general history books of Britain as well. It was covered in detail when I attended school and College. (I live in England, but still). It looks like we may soon add Londinium, essentially London under the Romans, I would imagine the whole island of Britain under the Romans is more vital than the single city of London under the Romans.

Support

1. Support as nom.  Carlwev  11:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. as nominator of Londinium Makkool (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Important phase of history for Great Britain  4 and by extension the United Kingdom  3. Would have supported sooner but thought this would pass quickly even without me and got lazy.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:10, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Remove History of Kinshasa  5

Not every VA4 city has its history listed, and they don't all need to. This city is big, but there are plenty of bigger cities that don't have their histories listed. This city has only existed since 1881, and it does not have a lot of historical importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Remove History of online games  5

Don't see a need to keep this article based on the other recent video game removals. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. λ NegativeMP1 03:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add History of Mesopotamia

Reasonable addition alongside Mesopotamia. Interstellarity (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
2. A little off-topic, but does Iraq make the cut for V3? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Only reason History of Iraq  4 is VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 11:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Belgian Congo

Seems like a BFD in the history of Africa. _pbp 14:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 14:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Very important part of the history of a country with a population in excess of 100 million. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Some overlap with Atrocities in the Congo Free State  5 but still important. The Blue Rider 16:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Obviously, given its predecessor Congo Free State  4 is listed. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Remove Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex  5

It's the only metropolitan area from the US we list. Interstellarity (talk) 23:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Joining to support. Better to have none US metropolitan areas than just this one. Makkool (talk) 16:49, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

   We have Silicon Valley at V4 and the Bay Area and Inland Empire at V5. It also makes sense to list at least one subregion of the second-most populous US state, and this is by far the most vital. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 03:20, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Certainly not your typical metro area of 8.1 million. One of Texas' regions should be listed if Cali gets 5, and the Metroplex makes the most sense. I'd also weakly add the New York metropolitan area. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Large multipolar metro areas comprising multiple major urban centers should be listed. New York should not. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:41, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume, didn't realize those two were metropolitan areas. Inland Empire is the 12th and SF Bay Area the 13th largest metropolitan area in the US. This should stay, so that California isn't the only state with regions, but we definitely should list some other ones for other states. Makkool (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Remove Cheyenne, Wyoming  5

Cheyenne doesn't seem to have must going for it other than it's a city in the least populated state. It can probably go. Interstellarity (talk) 23:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

# Wyoming  5 is enough to cover an insignificant administrative division. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Every state should get at least one. A place that is both the capital and largest city should be an auto-add _pbp 03:19, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per above Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Switching my vote to oppose. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Remove Burlington, Vermont  5

This one can probably go since there really isn't much of this city other than being the biggest in the state. Listing Vermont is enough for this level. Interstellarity (talk) 23:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

# We should also remove the other representative of the Lake Champlain  5 valley, Lake Placid, New York  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

1. I'd rather have the state capital, if we'd list at least one city Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   I'd rather remove Burlington than readd Montpelier, and reconsidering, every state should get at least one. Montpelier is Barre, Vermont's twin city, and neither city exceeds 10k population. We also removed eight other state capitals, and this would be the last of the nine to readd. Burlington is Vermont's primate city, holding over half of the state's urban population. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Every state should get at least one _pbp 03:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   Considering that we removed Wilmington in Delaware, this removal seems to make sense. Interstellarity (talk) 11:55, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   I disagreed with what you did to Delaware just as I disagree with what you did to Vermont. Either Wilmington or Dover should have been retained, and Burlington should be retained as well. _pbp 12:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   I'd readd Wilmington, due to Delaware and New Castle county having a significantly higher population than Vermont/Burlington and Wyoming/Cheyenne. It is also very close to the capital of New Sweden. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

2. I really detest the ebbs and flows of VA preferences. I think a lot of large cities and capitals have been removed just to make room for other stuff. I think each state should have one.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Switching my vote to oppose. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Add Sarasota, Florida

This Southwest Floridian city is a historically and especially demographically important city in Florida. The metro area in particular is projected to hit 1 million by the end of the decade. Unlike Greenville, however, its urban area population is actually significant. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. When I look at the cities that we've removed or almost removed, I don't think Sarasota has a chance. Compare that we removed Palm Springs. _pbp 03:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   Resort towns are not necessarily vital, especially when they are part of agglomerations that are already listed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

2. per above Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Various history removals

Didn't realize we almost fulfilled the current History quota (3,300), so I scrounged for a few potential removals and gathered these ten:

Remove Military history of the Mali Empire  5

In the same vein, we only have Military history of Europe  5 and Military history of the United States  5. This one doesn't stand out enough.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove 1889 Apia cyclone

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Presumably added for its relation to the Samoan crisis  5, which is already a weak V5 in my opinion, as it is part of the broader Samoan Civil War  5 and later Second Samoan Civil War  5. The Samoan crisis article only mentions the cyclone once.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:40, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove 2019 Bolivian protests  5

I don't enjoy rallying against Latin American representation but this strikes me as a recentist complement to the 2019 Bolivian political crisis  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove RMS Lusitania  5

Another two-slot event that can be condensed. The ship's history is well-covered by Sinking of the RMS Lusitania  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove 2019 Samoa measles outbreak

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

5,700 cases and 83 deaths.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Not enough of an impact. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:34, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Togo national football team attack

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

A terrorist attack part of the Cabinda War. The War, which has been ongoing for nearly 50 years, is not VA5, so I guess a swap could be on the table.

Support

1. As nominator. Weak support for a swap with Cabinda War. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Support if swapped for Cabinda War. CMD (talk) 05:42, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oppose

Discuss

Remove 2014 Gaza War  5

During my nomination of the Israel–Hamas war  5 some of you expressed support for a swap. The Israel-Palestine conflict may be overrepresented for its current salience.

Support

1. Weak support as nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of forensic photography  5

Minor area in Forensic science  4. 1 interwiki.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Forensic photography isn't even listed! QuicoleJR (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Timeline of jet power

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Minor timeline article in the History of aviation  4. 0 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. We should not list any timelines. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of cycling infrastructure

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Minor article in the History of cycling  5. 0 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Cycling infrastructure  5 and History of cycling  5 are both only VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Why this, feminist? starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
   1. Special:Diff/853378440 – looks like it was an indiscriminate addition from User:SethAllen623/Vital articles/Expanded/Histories of science, technology, and mathematics back when we were still nowhere near the 50,000 quota. I felt that adding stuff to the list first, based on work already done by other editors, and then fine-tuning it in the future, would be more efficient than building the list from scratch. When many of the sections were empty, it was harder to get an idea of whether something would end up being appropriate in a list of 50,000 articles. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Support removal. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Blue Banana

Important geographical concept for Europe: a large, almost continuous area of urbanization.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:12, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. There are few practical implications for the concept in real life. Something like Randstad or Gush Dan would be a better addition. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

   I would also support those two. Then we would have more conurbations than the few random ones we already have on the list. Makkool (talk) 07:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

   Greater Tokyo should definitely be listed if conurbations are V5 material. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

2. Oppose per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 23:22, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Remove Paphos  5

Under 100,000 people and not a national capital. 4 cities for Cyprus is too many considering it has just over a million people 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. UNESCO World Heritage Site, European Capital of Culture, and some pretty decent historical importance. It even has a little Biblical importance! I would much rather choose Larnaca  5 as a removal for Cyprus, since it has much less going for it, only having a somewhat higher population and the international airport in comparison. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Remove cantons of Switzerland, batch 1

Based on stuff we've already removed, does Switzerland really need all 26 of its cantons listed? I think we can ultimately cut it down to four cantons, probably along the lines of Zurich, Ticino, Aargau, and Geneva. Here are all cantons of Switzerland of under 100k population:

1. Appenzell Ausserrhoden
2. Appenzell Innerrhoden
3. Canton of Glarus
4. Canton of Jura
5. Nidwalden
6. Obwalden
7. Canton of Schaffhausen
8. Canton of Uri

Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Support all

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
3. None of them seem to have much historical importance and they all have low populations. However, it might be a good idea to add Appenzell to the list as a historical region, since it had more importance while unified. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Oppose all

Neutral

Discussion

Remove History of Arkansas  5 and History of Mississippi  5

Redundant to the History of the Southern United States  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Recent additions without discussion

I have recently reverted several edits adding entries without discussion by a certain user, mainly to history, which possibly got a lot closer to hitting/exceeding the quota solely based on their additions. I realized I had already reverted these at least twice before, which went seemingly unnoticed and I just had to leave a talk page telling them to stop. Aside from that, I'm not sure how other entries they added should be dealt with, especially as it seems one of them was 8888 Uprising  5 which had an active proposal for when it was added and it was closed seemingly without being noticed. Iostn (talk) 19:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

We should probably undo all of their changes that haven't been passed. It seems like we can keep the 8888 Uprising  5 since it passed regardless but everything else should be rolled back. I am going to assume that maybe they were operating in good faith and didn't realize changes required a discussion so hopefully there will be no more after your warning. I can roll some of them back later today. Aurangzebra (talk) 17:03, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Countries with too many or too few cities?

Based on number of VA5 cities per total URBAN population:

Underrepresented

Fewer than one city per 4 million

• China (5,767,810)
• Lebanon (5,321,908)
• Brazil (4,995,205)
• Guinea (4,474,929)
• Dominican Republic (4,318,085)
• Guatemala (4,236,821)
• Peru (4,125,303)
• Kuwait (4,052,584)

At least than one city per 4 million BUT
Fewer than one city per 3.25 million

• Venezuela (3,977,591)
• Ghana (3,955,994)
• Thailand (3,818,099)
• Ecuador (3,484,558)
• Uganda (3,291,379)
• Indonesia (3,281,747)
• Kenya (3,271,156)

No cities at all

City-states:

• Singapore (5,622,455)
• San Marino (32,273),
• Vatican City

Territories/possessions/state-like entities over 30,000

• Guam (154,425)
• U.S. Virgin Islands (100,402)
• Mayotte (98,596)
• Northern Mariana Islands (50,401)
• American Samoa (48,482)
• Aruba (45,493)
• Sint Maarten (39,537)
• Gibraltar (34,408)
• Turks & Caicos Islands (32,492)

_pbp 13:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

• @Purplebackpack89: = to compare, what is the number for USA? starship.paint (RUN) 15:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  1,922,977 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  @OhnoitsvileplumeXD @Starship.paint about that, yes. The average is something like 2.1M-2.2M so the U.S. is about average _pbp 21:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  But significantly below average among highly-populated countries. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  Among countries with at least 100 million TOTAL (some of with have way less than 100 million urban), Japan and the Philippines have more entries per million urban population than the US does, Russia has about the same, while the other nine have fewer entries per million urban than the US does _pbp 01:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Overrepresented

One city and an urban population of < 1 million (dependencies in italics)

1. Abkhazia (122,089)
2. Andorra (68,085)
3. Antigua & Barbuda (24,837)
4. Bahamas (324,723)
5. Barbados (88,634)
6. Bermuda (61,666)
7. Bhutan (326,286)
8. Brunei (328,400)
9. Cape Verde (354,491)
10. Cayman Islands (60,765)
11. Comoros (230,724)
12. Curaçao (142,000)
13. Djibouti (733,135)
14. Dominica (51,848)
15. East Timor (388,213)
16. Equatorial Guinea (880,694)
17. Faroe Islands (20,875)
18. Fiji (505,103)
19. French Guiana (241,249)
20. French Polynesia (173,169)
21. Greenland (48,966)
22. Grenada (38,956)
23. Guinea-Bissau (788,013)
24. Guyana (205,699)
25. Iceland (311,861)
26. Kiribati (61,888)
27. Lesotho (621,478)
28. Liechtenstein (5,386)
29. Luxembourg (523,930)
30. Macau (612,167)
31. Maldives (170,247)
32. Malta (406,176)
33. Marshall Islands (40,861)
34. Martinique (360,842)
35. Mauritius (514,950)
36. Micronesia (23,821)
37. Monaco (38,499)
38. Montenegro (419,915)
39. Nauru (11,347)
40. New Caledonia (192,783)
41. Palau (17,181)
42. Réunion (347,970)
43. Saint Kitts & Nevis (16,885)
44. Saint Lucia (33,289)
45. Saint Vincent & the Grenadines (57,234)
46. Samoa (35,513)
47. Sao Tome & Principe (145,534)
48. Seychelles (53,427)
49. Solomon Islands (142,062)
50. Suriname (369,081)
51. Tonga (24,745)
52. Trinidad & Tobago (726,160)
53. Tuvalu (6,925)
54. Vanuatu (68,412)
55. Western Sahara (467,101)

Multiple cities and fewer than 400,000 per city

• Belize (83,849 per city, 2 cities)
• Cyprus (195,411 per city, 4 cities)
• Guadeloupe (224,988 per city, 2 cities)
• Papua New Guinea (355,740 per city, 3 cities)
• Sri Lanka (384,772 per city, 10 cities)
• Eswatini (159,829 per city, 2 cities)

Multiple cities and between 400,000 and 1,000,000 per city

• Afghanistan (883,729 per city, 10 cities)
• Albania (882,294 per city, 2 cities)
• Armenia (922,779 per city, 2 cities)
• Austria (846,529 per city, 6 cities)
• Botswana (520,560 per city, 3 cities)
• Burundi (684,068 per city, 2 cities)
• Cambodia (526,914 per city, 7 cities)
• Croatia (599,337 per city, 4 cities)
• Estonia (452,136 per city, 2 cities)
• Finland (939,935 per city, 5 cities)
• Gambia (624,801 per city, 2 cities)
• Ireland (995,627 per city, 3 cities)
• Israel (688,114 per city, 11 cities)
• Italy (909,536 per city, 46 cities)
• Jamaica (534,972 per city, 3 cities)
• Kazakhstan (794,228 per city, 13 cities)
• Laos (591,356 per city, 4 cities)
• Latvia (447,310 per city, 3 cities)
• Libya (720,128 per city, 7 cities)
• Lithuania (656,295 per city, 3 cities)
• Moldova (864,697 per city, 2 cities)
• Namibia (619,928 per city, 2 cities)
• Nepal (951,601 per city, 6 cities)
• Norway (719,893 per city, 6 cities)
• Palestine (916,222 per city, 4 cities)
• Turkmenistan (973,958 per city, 3 cities)

Add Jiaxing

One of four Tier 2 Chinese cities to not be V5. Located in Zhejiang  4. 45 interwikis. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
2. And support the other three Tier 2 cities as well. China is underrepresented relative to its population _pbp 23:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

   @Purplebackpack89: May I copy your support for the other three, which I have proposed below? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

   Certainly _pbp 01:07, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Jinhua

Per my nomination above. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Taizhou, Zhejiang

Per my nominations above. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Jiujiang

Per my nominations above. Note that Jiangxi  5 only has Nanchang  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Tripolitania and Cyrenaica

If we have as many Libyan cities as we do, then we can most certainly make room for these. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Weimar

Surprising omission under Cities. Definitely the most important city in Thuringia. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Remove United States Minor Outlying Islands  5

300ish total people. Also, Wake Island is VA5, Midway Atoll is VA5, and Howland Island is VA5

Support

1. _pbp 03:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Would support removing those three islands too. Makkool (talk) 17:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Makkool, remove the three islands. Interstellarity (talk) 01:07, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Midway was kept in a previous discussion, so I'll have to oppose its removal. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove ALL 52 pages under the "Geography by country" section.

This is a bold proposal, but one that I think makes sense. We already have 1,316 articles for countries. I think that these 52 pages under physical geography are fairly redundant as far as vital articles go. I also think that the 52 represented are fairly arbitrary, and it would be to easy to argue for the inclusion of many others in this category if these are left as is. By getting rid of all 52 articles, we could free up ALOT of room. There are several thematic map types for example completely excluded, which this could make room for. Even if we don't get rid of all 52, we could get rid of most of them.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 06:51, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Partial support, remove Geography of Democratic Republic of the Congo, Kenya, Tanzania, Chile, Colombia, Bangladesh, Myanmar, South Korea, Taiwan, Wales, New Zealand - We could certainly trim some of them, but I think we wouldn't need to be so drastic and remove all. We list "History of country" articles as well after all. Makkool (talk) 11:31, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: Out of curiosity, how did you decide which countries to keep and which to remove? QuicoleJR (talk) 22:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

   It's the countries that have a "History of..." article on Level 4 that I want to keep. Makkool (talk) 05:15, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

   Agree with QuicoleJR here. Why keep 6 African countries but 15 European ones? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

2. Much less important to include than the history IMO. The history articles are useful as overviews, while most countries can have their geography covered by just listing the major features. This also leaves more room for those important features. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:46, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support as nom. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support all, though not opposed to 3–10 exceptions. By and large, the geography by continent articles are sufficient IMO. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

• @Makkool: I just worry that leaving some "Geography by country" articles over others would open the door for arguments about what countries are important enough to be included, which is obviously a subjective can of worms. "History of Country" articles could likely be dramatically trimmed as well. If we have the country page, these sub pages are less important in my opinion. Clearing them could open up room for a lot of other articles.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 01:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  Personally, I think we should keep all of the History of Country articles. They are useful overviews and cover a lot of things that are important but not quite important enough to be vital. The same is not really true of the geography articles. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:48, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  @GeogSage: Just so you know, the Vital Articles project typically expects nominators to support their own proposal unless they do not support the nomination. Letting you know so that you can do so here. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reminded @QuicoleJR:. I get this mixed up with the nominations for articles for improvement it seems.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

• A bit of off-topic, but what would you think of cutting down on "Law of country" and "Economy of country" articles in the same way? Or should we let them be without drastic removals like the "History of" articles? Makkool (talk) 14:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Add West Indies and East Indies

Historically used geographical terms. Relevant in the age of discovery, to be added to the History section.

Support

1. as nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add East Coast–West Coast hip hop rivalry

One of the major pop culture events in the 1990s, and probably the only music feud that led to people's deaths. It's rated high-importance on all of the WikiProjects it's a part of, and we already got the main participates on here (Tupac Shakur  4, The Notorious B.I.G.  5, Suge Knight  5, and Sean Combs  5).

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 20:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too niche to be vital and this reflects on the interwikis. The Blue Rider 20:56, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per above Makkool (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Do we even have West Coast and East Coast rap themselves? _pbp 01:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
4. If anything, 2Pac needs representation in musical works as the only V4 rapper. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Add French Resistance

Important topic for French and WW2 history.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 14:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 16:32, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 14:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of the Cook Islands  5 and History of Niue  5

We previously removed the "history of" articles of US and Australian states and Canadian provinces below 2 million in population. We could similarly cut the ones for these two countries in free association with New Zealand.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 14:36, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2. As nom of Canadian and Australian removals. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Jacobitism

Major political movement in Great Britain. Cause many a headache for the British government due to foreign support and Irish nationalist undertones.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:32, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Another batch of history removals

Remove Timeline of geology  5, Timeline of history of environmentalism  5 and Timeline of motor vehicle brands  5

More or less duplicates of other, more comprehensive VAs: History of geology  4, Environmental history  5 and History of the automobile  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of hang gliding  5

Not a major sport. Hang gliding  5 is only VA5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of Dubai  5

A minor settlement before the discovery of oil in the 1960s. Even today, with 3.5 million people, it is among the least populous cities with a separate history article.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. I would support a swap with History of Mecca if it were a separate article. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:35, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Early history of Tonga  5

“The early history of Tonga covers the islands' settlement and the early Lapita culture through to the rise of the Tuʻi Tonga Empire.” Redundant to Lapita culture  5 and Tuʻi Tonga Empire  5. Not to mention the History of Tonga  5 itself.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of Australia (1788–1850)  5

Even when they encompass customary periodizations, I’m not very convinced about having “History of country by time period” articles. We list several events in Australian history for his period: Australian frontier wars  5, Black War  5, Bushranger  5, European land exploration of Australia  5, the beginnings of the Eureka Rebellion  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of crime fiction  5

Crime fiction  5 is only VA5 with 2 interwikis. There are broader areas of literature that would merit coverage first.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of the Kuomintang  5

The only “History of political party” we have. Kuomintang  5 is already listed, as well as History of the Republic of China, History of Taiwan, and Republic of China.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of Easter Island, History of Norfolk Island and History of the Pitcairn Islands

Three incredibly lightly-populated places. IDK why they deserve a "History of" as vital _pbp 18:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 18:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Remove Howland Island

Sparsely populated rock _pbp 19:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 19:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion