Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/History and geography/Archive 5

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Remove Goat Island (New York)

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It's an uninhabited island whose main claim to fame is being in the middle of Niagara Falls  4. I'm not convinced that's enough to be vital at this level, especially when there are larger, populated, islands that are not listed.

Support

1. As nom. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 20:16, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. US sysbias, unimportant location. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Somewhat important, but not enough for VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Speaking of NY, I don't think Lake Placid, New York  5 belongs here. Wall Street  5 should also be swapped out for Financial District, Manhattan. Vileplume (talk) 17:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Plenty of more important islands worldwide that can be added. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
6. As a long-time Western New Yorker, I am surprised at how easily I can support this.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:26, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Iranian islands

Iran currently has seven islands on the vital list, and I found three that don't seem to make the list for vitality.

Remove Abadan Island

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Only important for having the city of Abadan, Iran  5, which is not important enough to warrant listing the island.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Faror Island

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Largely uninhabited, and no indication of importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Ommolkorm Island

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Uninhabited with zero indication of why it is important. Does not even seem to have minor regional importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Small, uninhibited islands which are not in dispute and do not provide any meaningful strategic significance like fishing rights, shipping access or oil rights to a particular country are not vital. Gizza (talk) 01:45, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Ajanta Caves  5, Remove Ghar Parau

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Quoting from the article: "Universally regarded as masterpieces of Buddhist religious art", a UNESCO heritage site. Some 70,000 views this past month and 77 interwikis.

I don't think the longest cave in Iran, a country not well known for its caves is vital for this level. 3 interwikis, 71 views past month.

Support

1. 115.188.119.62 (talk) 04:32, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. J947 ‡ ^edits 10:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support add, neutral on swap - the Ghar Palau article hasn't received attention of readers (or editors), but it still seems like a major landmark. --Makkool (talk) 14:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Just to note, these articles would be in different categories. Because Ajanta Caves is more known for its artworks, it should be in the Arts section. And Ghar Palau is a natual cave, so adding Ajanta Caves in a different section wouldn't affect the quota in Physical geography. --Makkool (talk) 14:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

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Some topics to add under Urban studies and planning

These are all major concepts from Outline of urban planning.

Add Spatial planning  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Yes, they are. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:46, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Urbanism  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
6. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Transportation planning  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:46, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Historic preservation  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:36, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
6. pbp 12:07, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:54, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
8. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Desegregation busing

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I am not sure that this is a notable enough subtopic of Desegregation in the United States  5, and the Civil rights movement  4 already has more than ten other subtopics on the list. Only 10 interwikis, and the Civil Rights Movement WikiProject only rates it Mid-Importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Probably too niche/specific for this level. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Olympia, Washington  5

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Think about it this way; if it weren't a state capital, would we list it at this level? This is not even the third largest metro area in Washington; the Tri-city area is. Pierce County has triple Thurston County's population, so Tacoma can probably stay over this one. It does have enough historical importance for an article, but that article has no interwikis and 10 daily page views. Vileplume (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom, but I think another Washington city should take its place. Maybe Everett? - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 15:54, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

   In no universe is Seattle large enough for two satellite cities. Vileplume (talk) 15:04, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

   Bellingham could be a good option as well if we're concerned about having too many Seattle suburbs. I just think Washington is a large enough state to justify having four cities at this level. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:56, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

   Am quite certain that Everett is a) not VA5 level, nor b) as vital as Olympia pbp 16:57, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

   Everett is twice as populous, and the Boeing Everett Factory is one of the most important factories in the world. Definitely more vital than Olympia. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

   Metro Seattle definitely doesn’t deserve a third representative more than Chicagoland or the Metroplex. Vileplume (talk) 01:08, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

3. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 12:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. If it wasn't a state capital, we wouldn't list it. It IS a state capital pbp 23:50, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

   And we only list 41 state capitals. Vileplume (talk) 23:51, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

   How many states as large as Washington state don't have there capitals listed? How many state capitals as large as Olympia aren't listed? The state capitals we are missing are ones like Pierre and Montpelier that are tiny themselves or in tiny states pbp 14:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

2. Meh, weak oppose per purplebackpack89. The Blue Rider 14:34, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak oppose per everyone above. We are surprisingly below quota for Cities so I don't think we need to be in a rush to remove borderline cases like these. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Cape Barrow

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This cape does not seem to have any indications of vitality. It has no historical importance, seemingly no biological importance, and little geographical importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 21:56, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Lantau Island  5

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The largest island in Hong Kong  3. Place under Physical.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:07, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. We also have Singapore Island  5. Makkool (talk) 12:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Faraulep

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The Caroline Islands  5 have five other listing, six if you include the parent article. This island has a population of only 221, and has no apparent cultural, geographical, or historical importance. It should not be listed.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:47, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 13 interwikis and 7 daily views. Whether this could be on a hypothetical 100k list is questionable. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 21:05, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Budj Bim

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I don't know why this dormant volcano is in the historical cities section. It looks like there are some Aboriginal heritage sites nearby, which got split into a different page; however, despite being a World Heritage Site, it just feels like it's here to give Oceania something for that section.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:52, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose - one of the oldest sites of aquaculture in the world, being 8,000 years old. Can support a swap with Budj Bim heritage areas or Budj Bim National Park though. Gizza (talk) 05:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with Budj Bim heritage areas, per Gizza. I wonder if we could WP:BOLD and just replace this, as Budj Bim is clearly wrong, and they actually mean the archeological site? Makkool (talk) 17:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with Budj Bim heritage areas per Gizza. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:24, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove all 13 regions of the Czech Republic

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Why do we have all 13 regions of a mid-sized country yet much more important regions of countries like the U.S. and Germany are excluded? Ohio  5 and North Rhine-Westphalia  5 aren’t even V4? The regions in question are:

1. Central Bohemian Region
2. Hradec Králové Region
3. Karlovy Vary Region
4. Liberec Region
5. Plzeň Region
6. South Bohemian Region
7. Ústí nad Labem Region
8. Vysočina Region
9. Moravian-Silesian Region
10. Olomouc Region
11. Pardubice Region
12. South Moravian Region
13. Zlín Region

Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Support all

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Strong support. Bohemia  5 and Moravia  5 should already cover most of Czechia. The Blue Rider 21:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. These do not seem vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:00, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Support removing these articles. I also support keeping Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia  5. These 3 historical Czech regions have cultural significance unlike modern administrative regions. Gizza (talk) 01:20, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Support-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Oppose all

Neutral on all

Discussion

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Add Street furniture

Parent topic to a ton of vital urban planning and everyday life stuff. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:52, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. 24 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:52, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Definitely vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:46, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. We see it in abundance everywhere, at least in western countries. The Blue Rider 22:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• To discuss as additons shortly - some are alraedy V5, listing here as part of my check and to save you time: Street name, Street name sign, Bench (furniture)  5, Waste container, Post box, Telephone booth, Traffic light  5, Street light, Parking meter, Advertising column, Curb, Vending machine  5, Billboard  5, Bus stop  5, Sidewalk  5, Traffic sign  5, Drinking fountain, Bicycle parking rack  5, Guard rail, Manhole  5, Manhole cover, Newsagent's shop, Payphone, Police box, Taxi stand, Ticket machine, Town sign, Traffic barrier, Utility pole  5 . --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:52, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Add 1923 Great Kantō earthquake

I think this is at least as consequential as the 1906 San Francisco earthquake  5, currently voted 5-0. One of the most destructive earthquakes of the 20th century, along with its subsequent fires and tsunamis, resulted in at least 100,000 deaths and had significant socio-political implications for Japan. The article argues that its aftermath fostered Japan's alignment towards authoritarianism during the interwar period.

Support

1. :Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. I'm shocked that a single event with over 100K deaths isn't listed. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Japan and Top-Importance by WikiProject Earthquakes. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
6. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:28, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Why do we have anti-earthquake bias on the list? Vileplume (talk) 00:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Pogrom

An important concept in antisemitism and Jewish history.

Support

1. :Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:26, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 06:29, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Very surprised this was missing. Good catch. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:31, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
9. Vileplume (talk) 15:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Rustenburg  5

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One of the major cities of South Africa, with a population of over 600,000 - larger than Kimberley, Northern Cape  5, Polokwane  5 and Mbombela  5.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 12:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
3. 62 interwikis, but 194 dailies is not a lot. Cities of this size should usually be vital at this level, so I’ll support for now. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:00, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

   Kimberley is at 72-379, Polokwane is at 74-218, and Mbombela is at 70-206. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Per low view count. Besides being the most populous city of its province, it doesn't seem to have any particular grounds for vitality. Makkool (talk) 12:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Viceroyalty of New Granada

47 interwikis. Encompasses much of the colonial history of Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Panama.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata

44 interwikis. Encompasses much of the colonial history of Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Bolivia and Paraguay.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add 1883 eruption of Krakatoa

One of the most destructive and arguably one of the most well-known volcanic eruptions of all time.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. The eruption that destroyed nearly the entire island of Krakatoa is pretty important. Surprised it wasn't listed yet. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Famous historical eruption.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:31, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
5. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume (talk) 02:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Young Turk Revolution

Because this event actually greatly influenced Muslims in other countries, it is definitely vital at this level. RekishiEJ (talk) 17:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--RekishiEJ (talk) 02:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Another bad omission. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:48, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. I would support this just for the relevance to the Ottomans. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:11, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 20:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 02:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add First Balkan War and Second Balkan War

Because Balkan Wars is now listed at Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4/History, it is logical to list these two sub-topics at the level 5 counterpart. RekishiEJ (talk) 17:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--RekishiEJ (talk) 02:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Makes sense. @RekishiEJ: You are supposed to add yourself to the Support section as the nominator. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Both are vital at this level. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 02:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add 1906 San Francisco earthquake  5

I'm surprised that this wasn't listed yet. This earthquake and the subsequent fires destroyed over 80% of the city of San Francisco  4, and it was the deadliest earthquake in the history of the United States. 47 interwikis, rated High-Importance by WikiProject Geology and Top-Importance by WikiProject Earthquakes and WikiProject California.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:38, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 04:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. That’s a bad omission. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:47, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. pbp 03:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Per nom. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:23, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Remove El Hierro and La Gomera

These two are the smallest and least-populous of the seven Canary Islands.

Support

1. Remove both, as nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 07:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Agreed, and would likely consider removal of few more; looking at the list, some are famous enough for V5, sure, but not all. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:29, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support both: Why not, as we did remove some of the least populated Hawaiian islands. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Mobile, Alabama

Alabama's second-largest city and a major port on the Gulf Coast (twelfth-largest in the U.S.). It was also a key center of French colonization and played a major role in the Civil War.

Support

1. As nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 10:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, the second largest city warrants a place --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   City proper is not the best metric. In metro population, it’s Birmingham, Huntsville, Mobile, and Montgomery. Vileplume (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too many US cities of regional importance only. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

1. This is a V5-ish city of importance, but Alabama only has a population of 5 million inhabitants and 4 major cities, so I'd only support this if we removed Montgomery or Tuskegee. Sarasota is also over twice as large and not listed. Vileplume (talk) 17:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

   I considered proposing a swap, but both Montgomery and Tuskegee were proposed for removal recently and kept with strong opposition to removing. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

Remove Prince of Wales Island (Nunavut)

Uninhabited island listed only for being large, and 40th largest in the world and 10th largest in Canada is not very impressive. This archipelago already has roughly 12 listings, and this is the smallest of them.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume (talk) 12:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. A large island visible on most world maps and globes. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: Sure, it's big, but it has little to no importance outside of that. Nobody even lives on it. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I'm not convinced that population is the only grounds for vitality. We list 446 islands, and it's easily among the most vital islands for Wikipedia in that range. --Makkool (talk) 14:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

Swap Fredericton out for Moncton

Moncton's been NB's largest city since before V5 existed. I think Fredericton would be the most appropriate article to swap out since we only have 42 US state capitals and we can cut a Canadian provincial capital. Canada also looks a bit overrepresented at V5 with 22 cities and a population of 39 million. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 13:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
3. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 21:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal, support addition - We are under quota in Cities and Fredericton seems important in its own right (as the cultural, educational and administrative center of the province). --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   New Brunswick has a population of under 900k, and Saint John is much more important than Fredericton, so it and Moncton should be NB’s two representatives at V5. Vileplume (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I don't doubt that Saint John is important too. Why can't we have three cities for New Brunswick? -Makkool (talk) 14:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   Q3 2023 population ~843k. Quebec’s three largest cities are all larger than any of NB’s, yet Sherbrooke is not V5. Vileplume (talk) 15:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Add Mount Edziza

I've greatly expanded and improved the Mount Edziza article just recently which is about one of the highest volcanoes in Canada and one of the major volcanoes in British Columbia, as well as one of its most active volcanoes. Volcanoguy 18:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Volcanoguy 18:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support per nominator. The Blue Rider 20:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. The nominator's proposal to add Mount Edziza volcanic complex looks likely to pass, so I do not see why this article would be needed as well. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

   By that logic vital articles about mountains shouldn't be vital in mountain ranges that are vital (e.g. Mount Baker, Mount Rainier, Mount Shasta, Mount St. Helens, Mount Adams are in the Cascade Range which is a level-5 vital article. Also note in my proposal to add Mount Edziza volcanic complex a user claimed that we are still under quota in physical geography which I agree. There seems to be a bias towards articles relating to humans. Volcanoguy 19:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

   Or Mauna Loa, Mauna Kea and Kīlauea which are on Hawaii, a level-5 vital article. Volcanoguy 19:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

2. This doesn't seem vital enough to be listed alongside the larger volcanic complex. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: Yet the Spectrum Range is? You claimed in the other proposal that you didn't see why Spectrum Range couldn't stay along the volcanic complex article. I could argue Mount Edziza is more geologically important than the Spectrum Range, being the site of more recent volcanic activity. Volcanoguy 17:41, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I just don't think we should list both the volcanic complex and its highest peak in this case. Besides, this project's consensus has been that recentism should be avoided when choosing articles. --Makkool (talk) 17:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: As pointed out above, why shouldn't the highest peak be listed alongside the volcanic complex if Mount Rainier and Mauna Kea are listed? Mount Rainier is the highest point of the Cascade Range and Mauna Kea is the highest point of the island of Hawaii. How doesn't Mount Edziza seem vital enough to be listed alongside the larger volcanic complex? It's almost just as long as the volcanic complex article and the other articles listed here, which means that they are all highly notable topics. I don't see how the project's anti-recentism has anything to do with this since it seems to be for individuals rather than landforms. Even so, Mount Edziza is slightly over one million years old while the other volcanoes listed here are no more than a million years old so that argument doesn't hold up. Volcanoguy 17:07, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

   Recent volcanic activity, or the length of the article are not things that would support including it in the list for me. Mount Rainier and Mauna Kea are notable for other things than just being the highest peak of their respective mountain ranges. EDIT: Edziza isn't the hightest peak of British Columbia for example. --Makkool (talk) 17:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Besides the -est' and most', why is it important? Be it geologically, environmentally, or even culturally. The Blue Rider 18:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  @The Blue Rider: I would say it has geological significance since it's one of the most widespread areas of recent volcanism in Canada. The mountain and the surrounding area were established as a provincial park in 1972 to preserve the volcanic landscape. As for culture, Mount Edziza is sacred to the local Tahltan people as it was a source of obsidian. It provided them with weaponry, tools and trading goods that ensured they could thrive for thousands of years. Mount Edziza obsidian has been found outside Tahltan territory. Volcanoguy 19:55, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Remove Blida  5

Being one of the 58 provincial capitals in Algeria does not make a city vital. Population is not that high and there is not very much historical importance. All it has going for it is having the home stadium for the Algeria national football team, which is not vital. It is also very close to the capital, further decreasing its vitality. Decent number of interwikis, but that is likely for the same reason as the U.S. state capitals. Overall, this city just doesn't have enough going for it to make the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

   I would support either of the swaps listed below. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Per nom. Would support a swap with Tlemcen or Bejaia. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 10 cities for Algeria seems about right ratio-wise and in general, I'm inclined to oppose any city removal unless it's blatantly obvious it shouldn't be included because we are actually under-quota for Cities. However, I would support a swap with either Tlemcen (former capital of Medieval Muslim Algeria, more populous, other important historical events) or Béjaïa (largest city in Kabylia which is a region of Algeria that is large enough, culturally unique enough, and significant enough to the history of Algeria that it should also be at VA5 imo, 6th largest port on the Mediterranean, more populous). Aurangzebra (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per Aurangzebra, although I would support either of the swaps. Vileplume (talk) 22:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• Bilda is the fourth largest city of Algeria, Sidi Bel Abbès  5 seems like a better removal. The Blue Rider 18:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Strangely, that metric at list of cities in Algeria shows the population of Blida as over 100k more than the article on Blida does, despite being only four years older. Blida has the lowest population among the listed cities going by what the infoboxes in the articles say. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Add New France  5

A major part of North American, and French colonial history. --Makkool (talk) 12:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 12:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Our coverage of North American colonization is too heavily tilted towards English colonization. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume (talk) 22:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Canary Wharf

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A leading international financial centre, and one of the two central business districts of London  3.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I think City of London  5 is sufficient to represent London's CBD, especially with City of Westminster  5 also being included. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 15:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

   Hmm I just checked page views, City of Westminster and Canary Wharf receive basically the same number of views, whereas Westminster (not listed at VA5) has somewhat fewer and La Défense has a lot fewer (granted probably because this is the English Wikipedia). There is no geographic overlap between the City of London and Canary Wharf, if that makes any difference. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 15:35, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

   For comparison purposes (in terms of how many people are looking things up) pageviews of Westminster and City Of should probably be added together. Totalibe (talk) 15:49, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

   @Feminist: perhaps discuss swapping City of Westminster for Westminster? pbp 14:57, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

2. Not the first district of London that I'd add pbp 14:46, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Alternate proposal: add London Docklands

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More expansive region of Greater London that includes Canary Wharf. Addresses current use as financial center and past use as shipping hub. pbp 14:57, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. nom pbp 14:57, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not convinced London needs more than two listings. Could potentially support a swap. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Public toilet  5

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A common fixture in cities worldwide, and increasing in importance.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 10:38, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
2. In Technology. Vileplume (talk) 13:25, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Definitely vital, but @Feminist: why is this under Cities? QuicoleJR (talk) 13:30, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

   Because the “public” part is what differentiates the topic from the toilet apparatus itself, I see this as an urban studies and planning topic, hence under Cities. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 17:12, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

4. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:32, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Of course. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Support Gizza (talk) 01:15, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• We should probably add Street furniture, folks. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Why isn't this listed with Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/STEM#Add_Toilet_(room) and Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/STEM#Add_Portable_toilet

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Add British Hong Kong  5

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We list Handover of Hong Kong  5 and we just added Portuguese Macau  5. If we list Portuguese Macau, we should list British Hong Kong as well. British Hong Kong marked the end of the British Empire  3, just as Portuguese Macau marked the end of the Portuguese Empire  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 04:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

   For the record, oppose removal of handover given that we are below quota in the History section. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:41, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

2. Support swap with the handover article. The Blue Rider 23:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Agreed. Not too hot on removing handover, but if we are over quota, weak support for swap. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:27, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Iostn (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
6. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:41, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Algarve  5

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Although Lisbon surpasses the Algarve in terms of tourism revenue, the Algarve is still, overall, considered to be the biggest and most important Portuguese tourist region, having received an estimated total of 4.2 million tourists in 2017.

Support

1. As nominator. It's a tossup between this and Faro, Portugal for me; page views for both are similar, with a slight edge for Algarve. feminist🚰 (talk) 14:25, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Certainly more vital than many of the random subdivisions we have. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:23, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Would list this over Faro. Vileplume (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:23, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
5. _pbp 19:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Recently it has been pretty touristic but is it going to held in the long-term? Not a vital region, in my opinion. The Blue Rider 21:05, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

   The region was also historically a separate kingdom, and it maintains a distinct regional identity apart from the wider Portuguese one. I would much rather have broader regions like the Algarve than political entities like first-level subdivisions that could change. Presidentman talk ·contribs (Talkback) 16:32, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

   An insignificant kingdom that was not separate of the Kingdom of Portugal, so insignificant that portuguese people don't even study it at school. It does not maintain a distinct identity, Portugal is pretty homogenous culturally. The Blue Rider 20:58, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

2. Per Blue Rider --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove El Hierro and La Gomera

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These two are the smallest and least-populous of the seven Canary Islands.

Support

1. Remove both, as nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 07:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Agreed, and would likely consider removal of few more; looking at the list, some are famous enough for V5, sure, but not all. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:29, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support both: Why not, as we did remove some of the least populated Hawaiian islands. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Gulf of Ob  5

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The world's longest estuary deserves a place on this list. It has most certainly made a more significant global impact than most of the Arctic islands we list simply for being large by land area. Vileplume (talk) 01:44, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:44, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 03:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Yeah, that makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:57, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 01:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add First Balkan War and Second Balkan War

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Because Balkan Wars is now listed at Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4/History, it is logical to list these two sub-topics at the level 5 counterpart. RekishiEJ (talk) 17:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--RekishiEJ (talk) 02:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Makes sense. @RekishiEJ: You are supposed to add yourself to the Support section as the nominator. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Both are vital at this level. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 02:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Comment to stop automatic archiving. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Spanish Florida  5

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Very important colony that existed for hundreds of years, was the first major European land claim on the continent, and once controlled a sizable portion of the Southeastern United States.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 18:03, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. England/GB should not have most of the articles on colonies in the Americas. Vileplume (talk) 02:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 21:07, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Lot of history.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove all 19 counties of Hungary

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Similar rationale to the Czech region proposal above. The articles in question are:

1. Bács-Kiskun County
2. Baranya County
3. Békés County
4. Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén County
5. Csongrád-Csanád County
6. Fejér County
7. Győr-Moson-Sopron County
8. Hajdú-Bihar County
9. Heves County
10. Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok County
11. Komárom-Esztergom County
12. Nógrád County
13. Pest County
14. Somogy County
15. Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg County
16. Tolna County
17. Vas County
18. Veszprém County
19. Zala County

I will propose compensating additions shortly. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Support all

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. These do not seem vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, propose replacing these small counties with the traditional regions of Transdanubia, the Great Hungarian Plain and possibly Northern Hungary. 2-3 regions is reasonable for a country of Hungary's size. Gizza (talk) 01:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

   I already proposed Transdanubia and its largest urban area below, and I will propose the other two soon. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:52, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Oppose all

Neutral on all

Discussion

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Add Transdanubia  5 and Székesfehérvár  5

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Aside from Hungarian counties which I have no reason to keep, we have no representation of the western half of Hungary, and this seems like a good place to start. Both articles are rated High-importance on WikiProject Hungary. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. These both seem vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

1. I want to clarify that while Szekes is only the ninth-largest city proper in Hungary, it has the fourth-largest urban area. The reverse is true for Szeged  5; while being the third-largest city proper, it has the seventh-largest urban area. Miskolc might also be a good addition, having the fourth-largest city proper and the third-largest urban area. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

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Add 1906 San Francisco earthquake  5

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I'm surprised that this wasn't listed yet. This earthquake and the subsequent fires destroyed over 80% of the city of San Francisco  4, and it was the deadliest earthquake in the history of the United States. 47 interwikis, rated High-Importance by WikiProject Geology and Top-Importance by WikiProject Earthquakes and WikiProject California.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:38, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 04:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. That’s a bad omission. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:47, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. pbp 03:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Per nom. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:23, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

• Commenting to stop automatic archiving so someone can close this. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

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US city changes

Just solving some bias towards state capitals, extreme underrepresentation in specific U.S. states, and the absence of significantly-sized metropolitan areas. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Remove Bismarck, North Dakota or swap with Duluth, Minnesota

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North Dakota has a population of under 800k and does not need a second city. Meanwhile, Minnesota only has the Twin Cities and this is its next-largest metropolitan area. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support swap as nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 02:49, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support remove --Makkool (talk) 12:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose Duluth per discussion closed on January 16. Oppose Bismarck as a non-trivial state capital.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose swap with Duluth per prior discussion --Makkool (talk) 12:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

1. Was going to support a swap but Bismarck has 116 interwikis??? They must be doing something right. But I also do like adding Duluth which is a regional economic power in the Great Lakes area. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:29, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

   Eh, it only has that many interwikis for being a state capital. Montpelier, Vermont has a similar number. Vileplume (talk) 13:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

   Oh didn't notice that. I support swap then. Aurangzebra (talk) 02:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

2. Duluth was removed barely 10 days ago. Totalibe (talk) 15:49, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

   Fair but if Vileplume and I had noticed that thread and voted, it probably wouldn't have passed. Up to Vileplume if they want to withdraw. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:51, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

   Oh never mind, that thread was before the rule change. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:54, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Carson City, Nevada

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Metro area and county are coextensive with the city, which is at ~58k. This is a state of 3.1 million and 3 cities we're talking about. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:38, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 07:05, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
4. definitely. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:26, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. pbp 02:10, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

   Can you give the reasoning behind your oppose? Vileplume (talk) 02:18, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

   I'm not sold on the "this State needs more, this state needs less" line of argument. I also think the Carson city-Virginia City area is historically significant pbp 14:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Santa Fe, New Mexico

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New Mexico has a population of 2.1 million, and 43.6% of that is concentrated in the Albuquerque metropolitan area. Only thing it has going for it is being the oldest state capital. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Weak support as nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Been a capital for well over 300 years. More to notability than just population pbp 02:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose per pbp. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Augusta, Georgia

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Georgia has a population of 11 million and yet has only two cities listed, the same number as Alaska, one of under three-quarters of a million. Metro population of 624k, certainly enough for V5. I'd also add Columbus. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 04:12, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Augusta, though I would oppose Columbus if it were proposed because its metro population is significantly smaller than both Augusta and Savannah. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 07:04, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom--EleniXDD※Talk 05:51, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Allentown, Pennsylvania

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Pennsylvania has a population of 13 million, great historical importance, is itself listed at V4, and yet has only three cities listed, the same number as Connecticut, one of only 3.6 million. Metro population of 871k, certainly enough for V5. This is also the largest city in northern Pennsylvania. In addition to this, I'd also consider adding Reading. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. More vital than Harrisburg imho. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Allentown was removed barely 10 days ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totalibe (talk • contribs) 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per prior discussion. Consensus could change at some point, but I think it's best to wait a bit. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:16, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Totalibe-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:20, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Per prior discussion --Makkool (talk) 12:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Greenville, South Carolina

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Metro area quickly approaching one million. South Carolina's population is high enough for a third city, imho. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. All it's got going for it is that its metro area got big in the last 20-30 years. Not as notable as Santa Fe pbp 02:14, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak Oppose. Potentially vital but not the first Southern city I would add after Augusta. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 04:11, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Not as vital as some other Southern cities and (particularly) not as vital as some US regions I would add. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 03:34, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

1. An alternative addition is Upstate South Carolina, which basically corresponds to Greenville’s CSA and is significantly larger than Greenville’s city proper or its urban area. Vileplume (talk) 14:20, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

   That could be a good solution, but I'm still not sure this region is as vital as some that are not yet listed. For example, I was thinking about the Fort Lauderdale discussion above and wondering whether including South Florida would be a good way of including a wider area. Although, consensus so far is in favor of keeping Fort Lauderdale which would make such an addition moot. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:10, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

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Swap Brownsville, Texas with McAllen, Texas

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McAllen's metro area is quickly approaching 900k. However, it is too close to Brownsville, so I've put it up for removal. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support addition, weak support removal as nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support addition; support removal. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose addition, oppose removal. Population isn't everything. Doesn't seem to be anything notable about McAllen besides the fact that it's the 56th largest MSA in the United States. At least Brownsville seems to have a historic legacy. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. O per Aurangzebra-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:55, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose per above --Makkool (talk) 12:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

They're both notably large but they're also both dependent on their bigger Mexican neighbours: Matamoros, Tamaulipas  5 and Reynosa  5 respectively (though McAllen looks to be significantly less dependent). J947 ‡ ^edits 02:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

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Swap Chicago Loop with Aurora, Illinois

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Of all cities to have their central business district listed, why Chicago? Aurora is its largest satellite city, so I've put that up for addition. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support removal. The Blue Rider 01:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removal pbp 02:12, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not a lot of CBDs have the Chicago Board of Trade and Chicago Mercantile Exchange type institutions. Not even Midtown Manhattan has such important global institutions. They have Wall Street  5.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per Tony. Also, it doubles as a sort of open-air museum: it is well-known for its public sculptures by vital artists such as Pablo Picasso  3, Joan Miró  4, Alexander Calder  5, and Marc Chagall  4. Probably one of the only places in the world where you can see works by this many iconic artists for free outdoors in a confined area. 07:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aurangzebra (talk • contribs) -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Tony. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 07:26, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Swap Anaheim, California with San Bernardino, California

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Sorry, I am still learning how talk page discussions work. I think San Bernardino, being the center of the Inland Empire makes it a better inclusion than Anaheim. Since California already has so many cities, I think a swap would be better than an addition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwamplero (talk • contribs)

Support

1. Nom — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwamplero (talk • contribs)

Oppose

1. The Inland Empire itself is listed and Orange County merits a city. Anaheim has 340,000 people and one mouse_pbp 03:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. --Thi (talk) 13:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

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Add Israel–Hamas war

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It's already one of the deadliest, bitterest conflicts of the 21st century. It has received enormous international attention, but unfortunately not enough of a coordinated response to stop it. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:03, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:03, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Very major war. @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: I feel like recentism is being fought a little too hard here, since it has already beaten some events we do list in terms of impact and death count. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. This is already much more impactful than the already listed 2014 Gaza War  5 Iostn (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. I would support a swap with 2014 Gaza War  5. Interstellarity (talk) 00:28, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:22, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Support per above. J947 ‡ ^edits 20:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
8. Swap with 2014 Gaza War. Vileplume (talk) 09:31, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
9. The odds in few years or decadees it will be declared insiginificant are very low. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
10. Swap with 2014 Gaza War. Gizza (talk) 01:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

WP:TOOSOON. I may change my mind in a month or two, but for now, I'll oppose. Vileplume (talk) 20:12, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

1. pbp 16:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose not a major war by most measures. I want to wait to see which impact it will in the international relations. The Blue Rider 16:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak oppose Maybe still WP:TOOSOON-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Inca Civil War  5

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Very important to the History of Peru  4 as a major cause of the fall of the Inca Empire  3. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Peru.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:35, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
2. It's good to have a few articles on pre-Columbian history that go beyond ethnicities and states. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:15, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Support good find. Gizza (talk) 01:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 04:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Volcanic winter of 536

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"the most severe and protracted episode of climatic cooling in the Northern Hemisphere in the last 2,000 years."

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Seems important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:27, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Could probably make V4. Vileplume (talk) 01:00, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support Good anti-recentist catch.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:28, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:14, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Barbarian  5

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A major concept in history, for better or worse.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:15, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 17:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:33, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Also in popculture. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 22:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Definitely vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:14, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
8. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add 1883 eruption of Krakatoa

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One of the most destructive and arguably one of the most well-known volcanic eruptions of all time.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. The eruption that destroyed nearly the entire island of Krakatoa is pretty important. Surprised it wasn't listed yet. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Famous historical eruption.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:31, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
5. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume (talk) 02:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add New France  5

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A major part of North American, and French colonial history. --Makkool (talk) 12:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 12:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Our coverage of North American colonization is too heavily tilted towards English colonization. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume (talk) 22:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Viceroyalty of New Granada

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47 interwikis. Encompasses much of the colonial history of Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Panama.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata

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44 interwikis. Encompasses much of the colonial history of Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Bolivia and Paraguay.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove History of Australian rules football and History of hurling

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Given the low pageviews and interwikis, we may have too many History of sports articles (28). We recently voted to remove History of rodeo, and these are roughly similar in terms of significance, not to mention that Hurling  5 is only V5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 21:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:01, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support histories of sports popular in one country (especially countries with medium or small populations) are not vital in a list of 50,000. Gizza (talk) 00:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per everyone above. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:34, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
5. The hurling article obviously needs to go, and I don't think we need the history of Australian football on here either, since it is only popular in Australia. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove History of lacrosse and History of water polo

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Same rationale as above.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 21:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. As someone who has done water polo it saddens me to remove this article but it is a rather niche sport. Support per nominator. The Blue Rider 23:23, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:01, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support per above. Gizza (talk) 00:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 05:35, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Saint Vincent Bay

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I do not see any reason for this bay to be listed as vital. It has no claim to importance. Only three interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
2. I can't see this at V5 when cities as large and vital as Novokuznetsk, Brașov, and Augusta, Georgia  5 still aren't. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 16:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Kabylia  5

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I think any region that is large, maintains a unique cultural heritage, and has made serious strides towards self-determination and self-governance should be listed at VA5. We do this for the most part (e.g. see Abkhazia  4 or Somaliland  4) but one omission I've noticed is with Kabylia within Algeria. Their people are Berbers  4 so they have a distinct culture and language from the rest of Algeria. They have made serious pushes for self-government (see Berber Spring, Black Spring (Algeria) and Movement for the Self-Determination of Kabylie). The population of the region is 3.5 million which is over 15x the population of the aforementioned Abkhazia (and has more interwikis). In North Africa, we also list 28 governorates for Egypt but 0 subregions of Algeria, a country of 45 million. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:19, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 07:19, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Abkhazia and Somaliland are states with limited recognition, so they automatically get a pass at V4. We also need to completely overhaul the country subdivision list. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:50, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:52, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Darfur  5

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I see no reason for one of the most important African country subdivisions to not be at least V5. It is notably one of the few subdivisions to be removed in the "Great Region Cull of 2013" and not be added to V5 later on. 72 interwikis, 781 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Strong support as nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom, very important Aurangzebra (talk) 03:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Very important, especially with the current War in Darfur  5. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:51, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Gizza (talk) 01:57, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Apodaca, Chimalhuacán and Tlaquepaque. Add Cuernavaca

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The proposed removals are medium-sized cities located within the metropolitan areas of Monterrey  4, Mexico City  3 and Guadalajara  4 respectively. Cuernavaca is the 16th largest metro area in a country of 130M, noted for its history, architecture, and festivals. It is where the Palace of Cortés is located, the setting of Under the Volcano.

Support

1. Support as nom. :Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume (talk) 21:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

1. How many cities of over a million are we missing? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:16, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Mount Edziza

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I've greatly expanded and improved the Mount Edziza article just recently which is about one of the highest volcanoes in Canada and one of the major volcanoes in British Columbia, as well as one of its most active volcanoes. Volcanoguy 18:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Volcanoguy 18:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support per nominator. The Blue Rider 20:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. The nominator's proposal to add Mount Edziza volcanic complex looks likely to pass, so I do not see why this article would be needed as well. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

   By that logic vital articles about mountains shouldn't be vital in mountain ranges that are vital (e.g. Mount Baker, Mount Rainier, Mount Shasta, Mount St. Helens, Mount Adams are in the Cascade Range which is a level-5 vital article. Also note in my proposal to add Mount Edziza volcanic complex a user claimed that we are still under quota in physical geography which I agree. There seems to be a bias towards articles relating to humans. Volcanoguy 19:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

   Or Mauna Loa, Mauna Kea and Kīlauea which are on Hawaii, a level-5 vital article. Volcanoguy 19:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

2. This doesn't seem vital enough to be listed alongside the larger volcanic complex. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: Yet the Spectrum Range is? You claimed in the other proposal that you didn't see why Spectrum Range couldn't stay along the volcanic complex article. I could argue Mount Edziza is more geologically important than the Spectrum Range, being the site of more recent volcanic activity. Volcanoguy 17:41, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I just don't think we should list both the volcanic complex and its highest peak in this case. Besides, this project's consensus has been that recentism should be avoided when choosing articles. --Makkool (talk) 17:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: As pointed out above, why shouldn't the highest peak be listed alongside the volcanic complex if Mount Rainier and Mauna Kea are listed? Mount Rainier is the highest point of the Cascade Range and Mauna Kea is the highest point of the island of Hawaii. How doesn't Mount Edziza seem vital enough to be listed alongside the larger volcanic complex? It's almost just as long as the volcanic complex article and the other articles listed here, which means that they are all highly notable topics. I don't see how the project's anti-recentism has anything to do with this since it seems to be for individuals rather than landforms. Even so, Mount Edziza is slightly over one million years old while the other volcanoes listed here are no more than a million years old so that argument doesn't hold up. Volcanoguy 17:07, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

   Recent volcanic activity, or the length of the article are not things that would support including it in the list for me. Mount Rainier and Mauna Kea are notable for other things than just being the highest peak of their respective mountain ranges. EDIT: Edziza isn't the hightest peak of British Columbia for example. --Makkool (talk) 17:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Besides the -est' and most', why is it important? Be it geologically, environmentally, or even culturally. The Blue Rider 18:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  @The Blue Rider: I would say it has geological significance since it's one of the most widespread areas of recent volcanism in Canada. The mountain and the surrounding area were established as a provincial park in 1972 to preserve the volcanic landscape. As for culture, Mount Edziza is sacred to the local Tahltan people as it was a source of obsidian. It provided them with weaponry, tools and trading goods that ensured they could thrive for thousands of years. Mount Edziza obsidian has been found outside Tahltan territory. Volcanoguy 19:55, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko and Poisoning of Alexei Navalny, add Khrushchev Thaw

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In both of these cases, we already list Alexander Litvinenko  5 and Alexei Navalny  5 mostly making these redundant. In any cases, we have an overrepresentation of post-Soviet Russia where Khrushchev Thaw, which encompasses a key period marking a diversion from Stalinism in the Soviet Union, isn't listed.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 19:40, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Due to Navalny's recent passing, this may be unfortunately timed but I agree. Contemporary Russia does not merit such detailed coverage. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Gizza (talk) 05:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:23, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Address  5

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Notable omission. Interstellarity (talk) 20:07, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 20:07, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Extremely common in today's world. starship.paint (RUN) 01:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:23, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
5. 44 interwikis. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 03:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight  5 and Nakba  5 under 1948 Arab–Israeli War

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The Nakba refers to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians that fractured their culture and society. The entire Israel-Palestine conflict can be traced back to this event. The 1948 Palestinian expulsion article refers to the broader exodus in the aftermath of the war, so I think that the Nakba article should go below the expulsion article, and the expulsion should go under the 1948 Arab-Israeli War which is already a level 5 vital article. Cadevo86 (talk) 13:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Nom
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:18, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Nakba, at least (should definitely be listed) - although I was under the impression its synonymous with the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight? Can someone explain the distinction? Support both Iostn (talk) 13:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

   The page on the expulsion and flight says that "This article is about the expulsion and flight specifically. For the Palestinian Catastrophe more generally, see Nakba." I'm wondering if it should be other way around. So that Nakba is first, and then expulsion and flight goes below that? Makkool (talk) 17:51, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

   @Iostn: - Nakba is both used to refer to the 1948 events and also any post-1948 events which Arabs/Palestinians were persecuted by Israel - see Ongoing Nakba. starship.paint (RUN) 08:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:05, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Swap Telegramgate for 2019–2022 Chilean protests

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Latter was much more impactful and important for Chile than the former was for Puerto Rico.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:56, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:33, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Religious violence in India

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A very overlooked yet very costly intermittent conflict

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. If it was in US, it would be V4 already. Sigh. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:30, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Young Turk Revolution

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Because this event actually greatly influenced Muslims in other countries, it is definitely vital at this level. RekishiEJ (talk) 17:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--RekishiEJ (talk) 02:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Another bad omission. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:48, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. I would support this just for the relevance to the Ottomans. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:11, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 20:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
7. Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 02:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Young Turks  5 is already listed (indeed, it was VA4 until 2021). Oppose given the palpable redundancy. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Comment to stop automatic archiving. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add East Berlin

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Capital of East Germany  5, this division is still visible in today's Berlin. The Blue Rider 19:19, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:19, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:37, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. West Berlin too. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:28, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Bible Belt  5

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Equally important to Sun Belt  5, which got enough support to be added.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 10:45, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Much better known concept than many geographical topics we list like minor cities or islands. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:16, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:22, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Arguably more important than Sun Belt. Gizza (talk) 01:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Prefectures of the Central African Republic, Provinces of Equatorial Guinea, and Districts of São Tomé and Príncipe

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Administrative divisions of small, unimportant Central African countries. Angola, Cameroon, and the DRC are the most important countries in the region. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support all as nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 13:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
3. These sorts of articles being listed premises that the demarcation of a country into regions is the vital topic; rather than the regions themselves – which is clearly false. J947 ‡ ^edits 03:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per J947. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Provinces of Burundi, Departments of the Republic of the Congo, and Subdivisions of Gabon

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Administrative divisions of smaller, low-importance Central African countries. Angola, Cameroon, and the DRC are the most important countries in the region. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support all as nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 13:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
3. These sorts of articles being listed premises that the demarcation of a country into regions is the vital topic; rather than the regions themselves – which is clearly false. J947 ‡ ^edits 03:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per J947. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Regions of Chad and Provinces of Rwanda

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Administrative divisions of smaller, low-importance Central African countries. Angola, Cameroon, and the DRC are the most important countries in the region. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support all as nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 13:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
3. These sorts of articles being listed premises that the demarcation of a country into regions is the vital topic; rather than the regions themselves – which is clearly false. J947 ‡ ^edits 03:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per J947. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:57, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add greater New York, Los Angeles and Chicago metropolitan areas

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Currently we list only Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex  5, which is the fourth largest metropolitan area in the US. I think we should include the top three as well: New York metropolitan area, Greater Los Angeles and Chicago metropolitan area.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support NY, oppose the rest. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I would rather remove Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex than add these. I don't know what value adding these sort of articles would provide - we already list the notable cities in each metro area. The Dallas-Fort Worth case is especially egregious since it's not even a particularly large or significant metro area when compared to the rest of the world and we already list Dallas and Fort Worth separately. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:17, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. The only reason why these areas are notable is because of their principal city. No need to list their metro areas separately. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:42, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

   Fair point but if we list 5 regions of California, we can make room for these as well. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• Outside of the U.S. how many metropolitan areas do we have?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
  • I looked, and we have a few random ones. Metro Manila  5, Rhine-Ruhr metropolitan region  5 and Greater London  5 at least are listed. Currently Dallas-Fort Worth seems to be the only one from the US. We could add some from elsewhere in the world too. Makkool (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
    • Maybe we should get rid of them all. Either have a metro article or a municipality article. Do we need both for any city? There are a lot of capital city readds I would consider a bigger difference than adding a metro area on top of a city.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add French New Wave  5

This seems like a glaring omission from the history of film, especially if the Disney Renaissance  5 is included. A revolutionary film movement of experimentation in style, editing, and political/philosophical substance that rejected traditional filmmaking. Countless filmmakers and films related with the French New Wave are considered vital, including Jean-Luc Godard  4, François Truffaut  4, and Breathless (1960 film)  4. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 04:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 18:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 08:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 21:27, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Especially since Italian neorealism  5 is also listed Iostn (talk) 13:13, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Notable omission Aurangzebra (talk) 01:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
7. Commonly covered in film history.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
8. Definitely. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

1. I presume this proposal was meant for the Society section so I will move it there. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:42, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

   I disagree, it belongs more in history. The French New Wave isn't a specific genre or style, it was a movement that lasted from the late 50s to late 60s. Italian neorealism  5 and New Hollywood  5 for example were also movements in film history in the history section of VA articles. CopiousAmountofCannons (talk) 03:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

   Ah my apologies. For some reason, I thought the other movements were under the Film section but I completely misread. Moving it back. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Remove Salem, Oregon  5

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Doesn't compare in vitality to Portland, Oregon and Eugene, Oregon which has a greater influence than this one. Interstellarity (talk) 23:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose; Eugene and Salem are comparable in importance. I personally think Portland should go to V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Strong oppose Salem and Eugene are basically the same size but Salem's the state capital. There's nothing to back up the assertion in the nomination that Eugene is more vital. Being a state capital has to count for something. Oregon having three doesn't bother me at all. _pbp 03:12, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Various history proposals

Add Soweto uprising

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This was a major turning point in the history of apartheid, as it marks both the beginning of increased international isolation (including by Western countries) and internal unrest which was increasingly unmanageable in the 1980s (which was when the government made its first milquetoast attempts at reform).

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Why Soweto  5 is V5. Vileplume (talk) 02:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Negotiations to end apartheid in South Africa

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The only thing I will say is that you could argue for 1994 South African general election to be listed instead (there don't even seem to be any individual elections listed interestingly) but this has broader scope.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:38, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too specific. The Blue Rider 17:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

   I don't really see how this is "specific", given it encompasses most of the early 1990s in South Africa, and aside from the negotiation process itself it also refers both to a political transition and a specific period of internal conflict between rival factions that was quite distinct from the majority of apartheid (more on this is detailed in the article, but to give just one out of many examples, you had several high-profile attacks involving the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging). The ultimate success of a peaceful transition of power in spite of this is a big part of how Nelson Mandela  3 became one of the most revered political figures of the 20th century. Iostn (talk) 23:40, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

2. If Soweto uprising is added, I think that would be sufficient. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:14, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Presidentman. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per presidentman Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

To be clear, this article is essentially synonymous with "end of apartheid", or as close to an article as there is on that. The Soweto uprising was fourteen years before this specific period which lasted from 1990 to 1994. Iostn (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add 1960 Valdivia earthquake

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Most powerful earthquake ever by recorded magnitude.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. The WikiProjects see this as very important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:12, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Is there a reason why we’re lacking in the infamous earthquake department?
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 22:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Great Railroad Strike of 1877

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One of the biggest labour revolts of the 19th century, that hasn't been surpassed often in scale.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:49, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add New Left

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Important political movement to discuss in the context of the Counterculture of the 1960s  5 and Protests of 1968  5, including its influence since.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:49, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap 2016–2017 Zimbabwe protests for Hyperinflation in Zimbabwe

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Listing the protests leading up to the 2017 Zimbabwean coup d'état  5 (when they aren't that distinctive enough in their own right) feels rather redundant when they aren't super distintive in their own right, so swapping with another important Zimbabwean event.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 19:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:39, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Stolen Generations

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Mentioned this before but I'd argue this is one of the most important listings for Australian in the 20th century.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:50, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:38, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

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Add Acadia

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Possibly a sub-proposal to New France above, but this produced a distinct Francophone cultural/ethnic identity that persist to this day.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Or Acadians. J947 ‡ ^edits 03:00, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Anti-communist mass killings

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This happened numerous times in the 20th century. We already list Dirty War  5, Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66  5, White Terror (Taiwan)  5 and White Terror (Spain)  5.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. For mine, this is at once too broad and too narrow a concept. It's too broad in the sense that it isn't a tangible historical event or even a singular trend; it's too narrow in that killings of communists in particular isn't really a sufficiently major topic. To me, it looks like we cover this niche very well already without needing a catch-all article on top. J947 ‡ ^edits 03:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Belle Époque

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Important concept in 19th century historiography.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 15:16, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:30, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Prelude to the Russian invasion of Ukraine for War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine

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I don't really see why the build-up to the invasion itself is vital as a separate article. The war crimes committed seem like a much more important topic to focus on.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support removal. The Blue Rider 17:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removal Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Removal only. Per The Blue Rider. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Support removal only per The Blue Rider. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Support removal Vileplume (talk) 22:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose addition. Let's not make what is a smallish war by most measures overrepresented. The Blue Rider 17:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose addition per The Blue Rider. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Classic Maya collapse

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Major phase in Mesoamerican history.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:10, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Good find. Gizza (talk) 22:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:32, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Optimates and populares

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Major factions in the Roman Republic  4, important in political history in that they are often considered a precursor to modern political parties.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support. J947 ‡ ^edits 05:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:12, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Historical negationism

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Unfortuantly an ever-present issue in the study of history

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Sadly, this is vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add 8888 Uprising

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Major event in modern Burmese history, even if it only resulted in a new junta.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Myanmar, WikiProject Socialism, and WikiProject Human Rights. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:53, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:52, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap 2014 NPCSC Decision on Hong Kong for Hong Kong–Mainland China conflict

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A broader article on this conflict is more important than the article on one specific political decision that was part of it.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support removal. The Blue Rider 20:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose adittion. Pretty minor conflict, besides we already list the protests, 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests  5. The Blue Rider 20:52, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I actually proposed this over the smaller 2014 Hong Kong protests (2019 was not the beginning or end of this) deliberately as I felt it would be best to encompass those and others more broadly in a generalized overview of political tensions, I wouldn't be opposed to a similar Taiwan article either. Iostn (talk) 17:18, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Pink tide

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Major 2000s political phenomenon across Latin America.

Support

1. Nom Iostn (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Hmmm, I've thought about this one too. Not sure the concept is that used in the academy or even popularly; the few interwiki links seem to suggest that no. The Blue Rider 20:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

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