Template talk:Infobox settlement/Archive 28

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Issue...again

Why does the blank emblems and shields now automatically align themselves left instead of center? What is going on with this infobox settlement mess for thousands of articles since early in March? And if my wording seems aggressive, sorry. But please don't edit my heading title or text here like you did last time Zackmann. --TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 16:04, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Please link to problem articles. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

see the thread above where this was reported to be fixed. Frietjes (talk) 22:39, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

@TheTexasNationalist99: Section headings, even on talk pages, are meant to be informative. The one above (it is not "yours") is not, so it would be reasonable for someone to make it so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:10, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Is the Shreveport, Louisiana a start? I browsed through countless others (just look up an article with a shield).--TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 01:07, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Shreveport, Louisiana looks OK to me. I put the 11 February 2019 version of Infobox settlement into the template sandbox and tested it in the Shreveport article, and the seal and coat of arms look the same with that older version. What are you expecting to see? It might help if you used the correct terminology. You are referring to a "shield" – do you mean the seal, the coat of arms, the flag, or something else? Is it one or more images that are not aligned as you expect, or the image captions, or both? – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:33, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Then why is my browser (Chrome) showing it as this? Weird. Very weird.--TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 14:36, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

That's what the article looks like in my browser as well, with the current version and the 11 February 2019 version of Infobox settlement. Again: Is it one or more images that are not aligned as you expect, or the image captions, or both? Please use more words if you want help. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

The fact the placement of the shield (COA) and even the logo of Fort worth under its flag and coat of arms is to the left, instead of the center as it has been ages prior, and your lack of seeing this as the problem really says a lot...if that still doesn't help you...FYI: it should be centered as should logos of cities like Fort Worth, Texas...TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 15:29, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

I pasted the infobox from Fort Worth into the testcases page, and the logo/seal/flag placement looks the same in the live template and the sandbox template, which is the version of the infobox from November 2018. Do you know when the template looked different from this? Since you've been so helpful and constructive and non-insulting, I'll take a look at the sandbox code to see if I can make it so that a third image by itself is centered below the two images above it. Is that what you want it to look like? – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:53, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. The bottom third image has always been centered literally since its inception. Something changed a few days ago by someone here. And yes that's what it is supposed to look like. TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Pinging Frietjes, who appears to have changed {{Infobox settlement/columns}} a couple of days ago. I fiddled with the new code, but I couldn't get the image that is by itself to be in the middle. Frietjes, it's the desktop version that is left-aligned now. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:24, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

unfortunately, there is no equivalent to colspan with div tables, so I split it into 2 div tables when there are unequal rows. hopefully this still resolves the issue mentioned above that started all of this. Frietjes (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Frietjes. I found a bunch of goofy hacks for div-based tables, but none of them worked for me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Colour change

After Template:Infobox former Arab villages in Palestine was deleted, and replaced with Template:Infobox settlement, (See Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2019_March_21 it had the change that all of these (400+) article now have blue infoboxes, instead of the former green.

I have two objections about this,

• First (and "smallest") objections is aesthetic; all of these places also have Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus at the bottom, (see eg Dayr al-Qassi), instead of a coordinated colour scheme, we now have a clashing one.
• Second, and most important: People unfamiliar with the I/P (that is; the Israel/Palestine) era, might not know this, but in the I/P area blue symbolise Israel, while Green is associated with the Palestinian cause. There are academic books written about this; I'm reading Petersen, Andrew, 2018, Bones of Contention: Muslim Shrines in Palestine at the moment. You might also see the Wikipedia articles Blue in Judaism and Green in Islam. (Thank you, User:S Marshall, for making me aware of those two articles!)

User:Frietjes (my "go−to" person concerning anything to do with templates) assures me that it is technically "trivial" to make it possible to change the infobox colour to green; I hope the community will permit this, Huldra (talk) 20:44, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Green is Islamist, to be precise. Some Palestinian factions don't favor green. One would also need to be careful not to color Jewish, Christian, and British sites with green, which may lead to misidentification. I would also question the wisdom of color coding settlements - are we going to code settlements associated with Africans black, and Asians red/yellow? Do we really want to classify settlements by race/ethnicity/religion? Icewhiz (talk) 20:54, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Please read the Petersen book, thanks, Huldra (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

You'd have to be more specific on the page - and this is a book on Muslims shrines (so - Islam oriented to begin with). Melkite, Greek Orthodox, Maronite, Arameans, etc. have other colors, as do groups such as the PFLP. Icewhiz (talk) 21:28, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Not only Muslims. Local Khidr shrines were also found holy by all; Christian, Muslim, etc in Palestinian folklore. If I recall correctly, Tawfiq Canaan wrote about it. Huldra (talk) 21:30, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

At least your 3rd thread was finally created in the correct talk page. Still oppose. This isn't an Israeli template, it was not created for Israel places, is not limited to Israel and Israel has a very small percetenage of uses compared to all other uses. Secondly, if you want to get technical about colors, this template uses #CDDEFF, which is very different from #0038b8 used for Israel. --Gonnym (talk) 22:06, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Threads like this make me shake my head. Yes, it is trivial to allow users to change the color. No, we shouldn't let users do that (not in the general case either). Varying the color should require actual semantic meaning, as with our {{ambox}} templates. Colors in an infobox rarely do so. --Izno (talk) 00:21, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree, but that then begs the question why {{Infobox settlement}} should set subheaderstyle = background-color:#cddeff;, rather than using the default for infoboxes. There's clearly no semantic meaning in that. --RexxS (talk) 00:35, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

;) --Izno (talk) 00:53, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

So, if I understand correctly, I will have to have a logic explanation on why I want to change a colour which has been given by chance? Huldra (talk) 21:30, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

using the same heading colour as the wikitable class would be a viable option for me. Frietjes (talk) 14:27, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, User:Frietjes, I don't understand what you are talking about (as I said, I'm a complete ignoramus on templates..)...could you please link to an example? Huldra (talk) 21:30, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Dayr al-Qassi دير القاسي
Village
House belonging to Abdullah Abedalmajeed Alsadek in Dayr al-Qassi

@Huldra: This is how the default infobox styling would render the top bit of the infobox at Dayr al-Qassi. Compare it with the article to see how {{Infobox settlement}} adds a blue background colour to the subheading for no obvious reason. Does that make more sense now? --RexxS (talk) 22:58, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, I see. Ok, I could live with that (definitely an improvement on the blue!) (....though I would prefer a green colour to match the bottom template in these villages.) Huldra (talk) 23:16, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Alas, it also makes sense to have a colour, just to differentiate the fields. So my choice would be: 1. Green (much preferred) 2. default (could live with) 3. blue (unacceptable), Huldra (talk) 23:21, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

You do realize we are talking about a project wide infobox? Coloring every settlement (in the world + non-Islamic settlements in Mandatory Palestine) subheading Islamist green because of your personal preference? A bluish tone is less jarring on the eye in relation to grey. There are also contrast problems with green as a background (green - the color humans see most strongly - makes a great foreground, not so good as a background) + issues with the common (8% of males?) red/green color blindness (leading one to choose blue as a color distingusher, since almost everybody can see blue).Icewhiz (talk) 04:49, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

My understanding was that we could tweak the info box code, so that the colour could be manually changed for the 400+ villages we are talking about. Also, about red/green colour blindness: there are green colours that they can see, this has been extensively discussed on Template talk:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus#Template_colour_scheme Huldra (talk) 20:53, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Dayr al-Qassi دير القاسي
Village
House belonging to Abdullah Abedalmajeed Alsadek in Dayr al-Qassi

better would be to not edit all 400+ articles, but instead either (a) change it for all pages which use this infobox, or (b) add a "#switch:" to change it based on the value passed through |settlement_name=. I would prefer to change it everywhere light grey similar to the light grey used for wikitable headings (just need something slightly darker than the default infobox background of #f8f9fa). Frietjes (talk) 21:39, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't see why it has to be similar on all the pages? Isn't this template used one several hundred thousand articled now? And as I am totally clueless on templates: what does "a "#switch:" to change it based on the value passed through |settlement_name=" actually mean? Grey looks nice, but if we had that on the 1948 villages it would mean 2 different colour on each article (grey and green.) I would prefer blank and green to that. Huldra (talk) 22:49, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Please, please please: can we change this? Ok, so I am (virtually) the only one editing these articles, but when I do (like just now, on Al-Muharraqa) the colour clash is absolutely horrible, to my eyes, at least. User:Zackmann08 Why does Wikipedia has to go backwards??? Huldra (talk) 22:25, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

To fix the color discrepancy (and inline with MOS:DEVIATIONS and MOS:COLOR for accessibility (in particular after clicking on a link - clicked link vs. blue link)) - I've remove the custom background on Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus so that it appears the same as any other background. I'll note that some localities have multiple navboxes in the bottom - and coloring just one of them green was jarring as well. Icewhiz (talk) 22:53, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Again, you cannot change that template unilaterally, to what "the locals" would see as an "Israeli colour", Huldra (talk) 23:29, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

For starters, these locations are Israeli - so if at all they should be colored as Israeli. However, the default Wikipedia color is not Israeli (which is generally a dark blue and white) - so that's not even an issue. However - all that doesn't matter - as there is absolutely no reason to deviate (yes, MOS:DEVIATIONS is a thing) from the standard color scheme here. These local deviations make life very difficult for anyone trying to set a custom color scheme in their browser or make project-wide color adjustments - someone who is doing that, can't account for some esoteric template using a color different from everyone else in a manual override. Icewhiz (talk) 23:35, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

For starters: these places dont exist anymore, 'because' of Israel. (Also, AFAIK, you have never, ever edited any of these articles. Why the sudden care about them? ) Huldra (talk) 23:38, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

These locations are in Israel. I have actually edited several of these articles (though my coverage isn't as extensive as yours). I invite editors here to Template talk:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus#Custom color - where we're discussing whether this navigation template should have a custom color (and which seems to be the motivation for custom coloring bits of this template). Icewhiz (talk) 23:45, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Some mechanism should be provided to use a green color for these pages, since the use of blue is politically provocative. For those not familiar with the issue, it is like using red in the infoboxes of all US state articles despite the widespread imputation of red versus blue in US politics. The assessibility rules were satisfied by the previous green, so that is a red herring. Zero^talk 01:36, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Not sure how those colors were determined to be ok, but checking them here shows that they fail not only AAA, but also AA. --Gonnym (talk) 02:20, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

@Gonnym: I don't know where you got #548EAE from. I tested the background #CEF4B6 against the visited and unvisited link colors as specified at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Colors. Both pass at AAA level. Those colors are what I actually see too. Note that this template contains only links except for some black in the heading. Zero^talk 06:17, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

I disagree the default scheme is provocative. What is politically provocative and downright shocking is editors trying to mark locations in Israel with Palestinian colors. This is shocking NPOV wise and has Wikipedia taking sides, in its own voice, in a political issue.Icewhiz (talk) 05:51, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh, poor Icewhiz is shocked to see an article on a former Palestinian village that contains a Palestinian color. Just as Israel erased these sites from the map, Icewhiz thinks we should erase the color too. Zero^talk 06:17, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Heh, personally I am actually glad Icewhiz is saying it straight: it is for political reasons he wants it blue. All the rest (about standardisation, colourblindness, whatever) is just fig leaves, (or smokes and mirrors). Huldra (talk) 20:23, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

NPA, please - I said nothing of the sort, I am however shocked by the stated motivation here by Zero000 above. There is absolutely no reason these locations in Israel should use a non-default color. Icewhiz (talk) 20:32, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

We can all read your words: "What is politically provocative and downright shocking is editors trying to mark locations in Israel with Palestinian colors." Huldra (talk) 20:38, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Besides which, the whole premise that these are articles about "locations in Israel" is false. They are about villages that existed before Israel existed, usually for centuries, and were erased during the establishment of Israel. There is rarely more than a sentence or two about the same location during the Israeli period. Zero^talk 04:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Template is malfunctioning

The template errors shouldn't be showing except in preview mode. [[1]] TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:58, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

@Timtempleton: This isn't an issue with just this template - see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Template_errors_being_shown_on_page_when_they_should_be_"shown_only_in_preview". Nikkimaria (talk) 00:02, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: Thanks - I was answering for someone at the Teahouse. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 00:06, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Duplicated content

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Template%3AInfobox+England+region&namespace=0

Same box on

• East of England
• List of Parliamentary constituencies in the East of England (region)

Have rarily seen this before. Isn't there a policy against content duplication? 78.54.100.184 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Help with localising this template for Telugu Wikipedia

We are making attempt to fix the problems with using this Template in Telugu Wikipedia.We imported the latest pages related to this template from English Wikipedia. The existing examples in the documentation page do not display properly. The Area display with units is not working to start with. Can someone experienced with this template review and help fix the problem or suggest how to fix? Thanks in advance. Arjunaraoc (talk) 22:55, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Ping Plastikspork, Frietjes --Arjunaraoc (talk) 21:57, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Resolved it myself, as I could find and fix a bug in ../metric ../metric/mag and similar templates. For the revised sample template which works in Telugu Wikipedia, please see this fix--Arjunaraoc (talk) 08:43, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Fixes for sub templates based on experience from Telugu Wikipedia

Template:Infobox settlement/metric/sandbox, Template:Infobox settlement/metric/mag/sandbox are created to demonstrate the fixes. The testcases are at Template:Infobox settlement/metric/testcases, Template:Infobox settlement/metric/mag/testcases respectively. Request for feedback from template maintainers on English wiki, before merging the sandbox into the respective main template. There are four more templates that need to be fixed corresponding to 'impus', 'dunam' units, which can be taken up after feedback on this. Arjunaraoc (talk) 04:06, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

In the "metric" testcases page, why do measurements of length link to a page about measurements of area?

On a more fundamental level, why are both imperial and metric measurement parameters required? That's just asking for error and inconsistency. I added a test case to show that non-equivalent values can be provided without an error message. Shouldn't we use {{convert}} to do this work? What am I missing? – Jonesey95 (talk) 10:38, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox settlement/metric/mag/testcases illustrates that the template does not format the input of "km2" to "km²", which it should do automatically. Again, let's use {{convert}} unless there is a good reason not to. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:12, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

@Jonesey95, These sub templates are supposed to be called from {{Infobox settlement/lengthdisp}} and {{Infobox settlement/areadisp}}, so the testcases should be at that level. I created the test cases at the sub template level just to illustrate the bug. Regarding your question about formatting "km2", it was due to a type, which I fixed it now. I have added sandboxes and testcases at lengthdisp and areadisp level, which can be checked at {{Infobox settlement/lengthdisp/testcases}} and {{Infobox settlement/areadisp/testcasesV2}}. I think these templates evolved after experience with {{convert}} to present data for a worldwide audience easily. Arjunaraoc (talk) 23:03, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Only articles from four countries - AU-NZ-UK-US - have an infobox that does not use this template

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:List_of_infoboxes/Geography_and_place&oldid=892653638#Place

1. Australia: 2 specific infoboxes
2. New Zealand: 1 specific infobox
3. UK: 3 specific infoboxes
4. US: 2 specific infoboxes

78.54.186.65 (talk) 01:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

The US county infobox could be converted pretty much immediately if there is support for it; here's the test cases.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:54, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

User:Underlying lk, could you also do it for US state? 77.183.108.3 (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Currency

French Guiana is missing the currency information in the infobox, compared to Saint Barthélemy that has the currency included. This is because Saint Barthélemy is using Template:Infobox country that has the currency available, while French Guiana is using Template:Infobox French region that is built on Template:Infobox settlement that is lacking the currency.

I request the addition of the "currency" and "currency_code" elements from Template:Infobox country to be added, so articles can add the currency to infoboxes where it can work as clarification. I fully understand that in most cases, the currency don't have to be included, like for Alberta, as it's obvious that it is the same as Canada. But for overseas territories where it can be ambigous, and this could clear that up in a quick way. There are also cases where a territory chooses to use a different currency from the nation it's part of, an example is Kosovo, but it's using Template:Infobox country as it's more or less a country in some eyes. But there might be other cases that I can't think of right now.
Liggliluff (talk) 07:58, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Other overseas regions that might need clarification are: Guadeloupe, Martinique, Réunion. Liggliluff (talk) 08:12, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

pushpin map caption

Request support for |pushpin_map_caption_width= to improve display of long names Frietjes? MB 17:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

User:MB, you should provide an example where this would be useful. there is probably another solution. Frietjes (talk) 18:24, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, This is one: Canisteo Center, New York. MB 18:37, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

User:MB, looks fine in my browser. what is your browser/OS? Frietjes (talk) 18:39, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, Sorry, I meant |pushpin_label_width=. Trying to keep Canisteo Center from wrapping. MB 18:53, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

User:MB, have you tried using {{nowrap}} with |pushpin_label=? seems like a better idea than to try to guess/enforce a width that works for all browsers. Frietjes (talk) 18:56, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, Since |label_width= exists over in Template:Location map, I thought passing that through was the best approach. I think you have done that on other templates in the past. Here is one done by Jonesey95 for example. I'm not sure what you mean by "guess/enforce a width that works for all browsers". MB 19:19, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

User:MB, whether or not text fits in a box of a particular width is frequently browser dependent. Frietjes (talk) 19:25, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Logo caption gone?

I know it's a little late to bring this up (i don't remember when the change was made), but what happened to the "logo" caption under the logo?

e.g. in the infobox for Richmond Hill, Ontario, there is a "Flag" caption under the city flag, but no "Logo" caption under the logo.

(really sorry if this has been discussed before, please let me know if it has) The Verified Cactus 100% 03:43, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand the complex history of decisions that went into this template. I fixed the infobox at Richmond Hill, Ontario by adding |blank_emblem_type=Logo. —hike395 (talk) 18:02, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Later --- it looks like the decision to remove "Logo" was taken by Debresser on December 13, 2018 here. I can't find any discussion about the change. —hike395 (talk) 18:08, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. The issue is as I described in the edit summary of that edit: "Remove default text "Logo" in case that no emblem type is provided. If anything, I think "Coat of Arms" would be preferable to "Logo", but I see no good reason to have a default text for this parameter when it is empty." Simply put, the word "Logo" appeared even when there was no logo. The way it should be done is by adding a value to "blank_emblem_type" if there is a logo, and if a subscript is deemed necessary. Debresser (talk) 21:03, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Subst Template:Infobox Finnish municipality

User:RexxS, with Template:Infobox Finnish municipality there is similar problem as before noted in above section #Subst Template:Infobox South African town; here again nominated by User:Zackmann08 but no progress. What can be done? 78.55.98.138 (talk) 21:48, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Holding_cell#To_convert "2019 February 22 – Infobox_Finnish_municipality" - no progress. 78.55.22.17 (talk) 15:17, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Causes unwanted short descriptions outside of mainspace – {{main other}} required

This template's invocation of Module:Settlement short description requires {{main other}} to keep in check any unwanted occurrences of short descriptions outside of mainspace when the template is used for demonstrative purposes on project, talk, or documentation pages. For example, enable Shortdesc helper and take a peek at {{collapsible list}}. Notice how its documentation page displays a short description: "Place in Ontario, Canada".

<includeonly>{{main other|{{#invoke:Settlement short description|main|{{{settlement_type|{{{type|}}}}}}|{{{short_description|}}}|{{{subdivision_name|}}}|{{{subdivision_name1|}}}|{{{subdivision_name2|}}}}}|}}{{Infobox

Jay D. Easy (t • c) 21:54, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

 Done Izno (talk) 02:32, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Display type if name is not set

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_settlement/sandbox&diff=896472053&oldid=889890612 78.54.127.217 (talk) 18:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Please demonstrate with some testcases or user sandbox pages. This template is used in hundreds of thousands of pages and should not be modified without testing. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:27, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

It is just taking the name statement from

<div style="display:inline" class="fn org">{{if empty|{{{name|}}}|{{{official_name|}}}|{{PAGENAMEBASE}}}}</div>

and replacing the name statement "{{{name|}}}{{{official_name|}}}" in

{{#if:{{both|{{{name|}}}{{{official_name|}}}{{#ifeq:{{yesno|{{{embed|}}}}}|yes|1}}|{{{settlement_type|{{{type|}}}}}}}}|<div class="category">{{{settlement_type|{{{type}}}}}}</div>}}

Result

| subheader = {{#if:{{both|{{if empty|{{{name|}}}|{{{official_name|}}}|{{PAGENAMEBASE}}}}{{#ifeq:{{yesno|{{{embed|}}}}}|yes|1}}|{{{settlement_type|{{{type|}}}}}}}}|<div class="category">{{{settlement_type|{{{type}}}}}}</div>}}

Very easy. "Please demonstrate with some testcases"? Here you go:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ballylifford&diff=897405735&oldid=897210033
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ardoyne&diff=897405837&oldid=897212333
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bogside&diff=897405912&oldid=897212196

78.55.22.17 (talk) 20:25, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Note: User:Pbroks13 is reverting the test cases and accuses me of vandalism. But the changes can be seen via diff. 78.55.22.17 (talk) 20:30, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

This may be a language misunderstanding; "testcases" is a technical term referring to the Template:Infobox_settlement/testcases page. Any editor is correct in reverting test changes to live Wikipedia articles. Neither making test changes nor reverting them is "vandalism". ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:05, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

~ ToBeFree, thank you. I checked Template:Infobox_settlement/testcases#Case_8:_Toronto - which is broken, but fine, when /sandbox is added to the actual article. "/testcases" code has a bug. 78.55.22.17 (talk) 21:52, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Interesting. I see what you mean, but I fail to find the reason for the testcase bug. The {{testcase table}} template is meant to ensure properly working testcases. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:45, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Restored IP's changes to sandbox. Will investigate Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 14:21, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I can't see any problems / errors with this edit by comparing the sandbox and template. I removed name and official name from testcase 8 and it didn't have an error either diff. ToBeFree, what was this error? Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 14:37, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Dreamy Jazz, I knew I should have made a screenshot. It must have been a weird server-side caching issue; the map appeared next to the flag in the flag field of the table. The issue is gone, either because caches have been cleared, or because changes have been made to the sandbox or the table template since. In a nutshell, there is no issue, and possibly there never was a real issue. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:07, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

ToBeFree, it may have been fixed in this edit diff. It seems that the sandbox was overwritten for testing the footnotes. In the edit it changed using {{Infobox settlement/columns/sandbox}} to {{Infobox settlement/columns}}. In that case, I'm happy this change is fine, so I will implement it. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 16:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

 Done Requested changes does not cause problems in the testcases and achieves what is needed. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 16:18, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Hectare/acre conversion

We seem to have an inconsistency between the area_total_ha conversion used in this template and the result of converting ha to acres in the {{convert}} template. Is it just some rounding thing? An example can be seen by comparing the figure in the lead section at Inglun with that shown in the infobox there. - Sitush (talk) 18:49, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Sitush, yes, it's a rounding thing, if you try {{cvt|1483|ha|acre|0}} in the lead section, you get the same result for both. Frietjes (talk) 20:10, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you. I'll do that and hope that I remember it in future. - Sitush (talk) 20:35, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

New parameters: Biota symbols, NUTS, GDP, ...

1. Dreamy_Jazz at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_June_5#Template:Infobox_Prefecture_Japan suggests to add |Flower=, |Tree=, |Bird= and |Fish=
2. Dreamy_Jazz at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_June_4#Template:Infobox_French_region suggests to add |GDP= and |NUTS=

77.13.54.171 (talk) 07:53, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Completion

Could there be a parameter named "|Completion” because some cities are being planned and built?Manabimasu (talk) 01:23, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Clarify and give examples of what you mean. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 02:10, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Sbmeirow (talk · contribs)Port City Columbo, Jing-Jin ji, Tianjin, Konza Techno City.Manabimasu (talk) 13:45, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

fix MOS:FONTSIZE issues

Hullo... could someone implement the changes here in the sandbox that remove all sections that render text in the infobox (already at 85% of normal text size) smaller than 100%? This is a MOS:FONTSIZE issue that has WP:ACCESS repercussions. It's been raised previously. —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, this has long needed doing for accessibility. See also WP:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 146#Observe MOS:FONTSIZE in infobox templates. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm tagging this with a TPER, though I scanned it and didn't see an issue. --Izno (talk) 12:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Done — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:59, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:58, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Founded by

Should "Founded by" get moved before "established" params because somethimes one wants to have several estapblished titles and not after them who founded the very first type of a settlement (for example Kotar and then date dd Month yyyy, below it Municipality with date dd Month yyyy, below it City with date dd Month yyyy and then it comes title Founded by with the founder of the first settlement [whether Kotar or even some before it] making thus founder and the last "foundation" as a City wrongly connected because someone can imply that Founded by refers to the last type of establishment). I have example in Zenica where I entered "Municipality became City" instead of only "City" because of this reason, but I am not satisfied yet because one could imply that the established City (established after Municipality) was founded by the person stated below. --Obsuser (talk) 13:40, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I solved it for myself by using estrablished params for founding too and taking out Founded by. --Obsuser (talk) 15:33, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Time zone information - Wikidata

Is the local data compared with Wikidata? Are there tracking categories for differences? Is the IANA time zone database used? 89.12.120.131 (talk) 18:54, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox region symbols

Please include Template:Infobox region symbols in case Bird=, Flower=, or some other applicable not overlapping code is set - or better set the parameter to be tested to symbol_bird, symbol_flower, ... Trialpears just used parameters like these in a TfD for Template:Infobox province or territory of Canada. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 11:52, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Language information

I think language should be an extra parameter, or set of parameters and not be in demographics_123 as is done in some articles due to a lack of a more specific parameter. This would also ensure that language information appears in the same place across all articles. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 12:13, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

GDP

In Template:Infobox province or territory of Canada GDP/capita is in demographics1_title3 . Articles calling Iinfobox settlement directly or other wrappers may use it differently. Could there by a dedicated GDP parameter, and per capita be calculated? That would ensure the information is displayed at the same place. It may also enable a better connection to Wikidata. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 12:54, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Protection level for wrappers

User:Ivanvector changed the protection level for one of the wrappers after it was proposed for deletion at TfD by me from "semi" to "template", see Template talk:Infobox India district#Template protection. This is generally not done for Infobox settlement wrappers. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 17:24, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm getting tired of being pinged to new pages by this editor. I will not be watching this one; if someone wants to follow up on this, please see where I already explained at Template talk:Infobox India district. @IP: if you ping me on some new page again, I will ask someone to block you. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:26, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

"template"-protection is reserved to wrappers with 2500+ transclusions, source: Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Geography and place#Country-specific. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 19:45, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Pppery just declined [2] a request to undo the protection level change implementend by Ivanvector without a proper explanation [3]. Since Ivanvector said "if you ping me on some new page again, I will ask someone to block you." [4], and I don't know what "some new page again" actually means, I will better not contact the admin. Maybe someone else can? Pppery wrote "requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request" - the admin is still active, but also has not declined, so according to Pppery's text the option of going to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection doesn't exist. 77.11.28.112 (talk) 13:33, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Template:Edit template-protected is plainly not the correct process for requesting changes to a page's protection level. I responded to your two edit requests with a canned comment explaining that. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 13:44, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Pppery I am only aware of a response to one request by me [5], what is the second request you responded to with "a canned comment" (whatever that is)? 77.11.28.112 (talk) 16:41, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Special:Diff/908800385. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:42, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! Sorry, I forgot that one, which was regarding the {{Infobox province or territory of Canada}}. 77.183.31.40 (talk) 17:05, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Commons category?

I was looking up a Russian town Valday in Novgorod oblast and saw at the bottom of its infobox on Russian Wikipedia a link leading to the Wikimedia Commons category for that town, but the corresponding infobox on the English page about the town didn't have this parameter, and it wasn't found in the infobox template. Was it omitted accidentally? GregZak (talk) 19:52, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

This infobox doesn't have that option. The Commons link is already in the left hand menu and at the bottom of the article. We don't need to duplicate it a 3rd time in the infobox. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 20:49, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't see them on the Valday page. GregZak (talk) 06:13, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

I was using mobile layout of Wikipedia. GregZak (talk) 06:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

In the infobox it would be easier to find than down the page and it would not need an extra link or template as needed down the page. The link outside the content area is... outside the content area, and as it seems sometimes is not even displayed. 78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:34, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Abbreviations and codes

Examples from non-wrapper place infoboxes

Infobox U.S. state

Template:Infobox U.S. state: List of U.S. state abbreviations#Current use of traditional abbreviations - where would that go to? A new parameter code_other1_title / code_other1_value? 77.183.70.51 (talk) 23:35, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

The infoboxes for US states already have the ISO and other abbreviations listed, towards the bottom, just above the website. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 13:21, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Listed yes, but no dedicated field for "traditional abbreviation". 78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:17, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

| label38 = [[ISO 3166]]
| data38 = {{#if:{{{ISOCode| }}}| [[ISO 3166-2:US|{{{ISOCode}}}]] }}

| label39 = Abbreviations
| data39 = [[List of U.S. state abbreviations#Postal codes|{{{PostalAbbreviation| }}}]]{{#if: {{{TradAbbreviation|}}} | , [[List of U.S. state abbreviations#Current use of traditional abbreviations|{{{TradAbbreviation| }}}]]}}

In the Template:Infobox U.S. state/sandbox

| postal_code_type        = USPS abbreviation<!-- enter ZIP Code, Postcode, Post code, Postal code... -->	
| postal_code             = [[List of U.S. state abbreviations#Postal codes|{{{PostalAbbreviation| }}}]]
| iso_code                = {{#if:{{{ISOCode|}}}| [[ISO 3166-2:US|{{{ISOCode|}}}]] }}

But no field in Infobox settlement for the traditional abbreviation. 78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:46, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done in sandbox [6] TerraCyprus (talk) 17:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Examples from wrappers

Infobox Cape Verde settlement

Template:Infobox Cape Verde settlement: a creation by User:Markussep, in its source code has nine times "{{{key", but the value of "key" is not displayed in the articles. 78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:23, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done TerraCyprus (talk) 17:47, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Infobox Russian federal subject

Template:Infobox Russian federal subject: has

 | blank_name_sec2         = [[OKTMO]] ID
 | blank_info_sec2         = {{wikidata|property|P764}}

78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:28, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done TerraCyprus (talk) 17:47, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Infobox Russian district

Template:Infobox Russian district: has

 | blank_name_sec2         = [[OKTMO]] ID
 | blank_info_sec2         = {{wikidata|property|P764}}

78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:39, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done TerraCyprus (talk) 17:47, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Infobox Russian inhabited locality

Template:Infobox Russian inhabited locality: has

 | blank_name_sec2         = [[OKTMO]] ID
 | blank_info_sec2         = {{wikidata|property|P764}}

78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:39, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Solution

Create two more fields for codes and abbreviations where the name can be choosen by the article editor, or for wrappers, by the wrapper editor. 78.54.131.159 (talk) 16:37, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Two new parameters and their labels for codes and abbreviations related to the place in question: code1_name, code1_info, code2_name, code2_info . The parts of the names "name" and "info" are the same as in the blank parameters, just below of these new parameters.

Permanent link: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_settlement/sandbox&oldid=909042403

This will place codes from wrappers and articles that currently are stored via blank-fields into the section for codes and abbreviations (postal codes, vehicle registration, ISO code, etc.).

Examples of the current placements in different sections :

• Template:Infobox_U.S._state/testcases#Arkansas "Trad. abbrev.: Ark" is in the wrong section - (this infobox is under conversion to be a wrapper)
• Moscow Oblast / OKTMO ID is in the wrong section - (using a wrapper)

78.54.131.159 (talk) 17:40, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

I approve of this suggestion. It would definitley be nice for US states and as the IP shows in other places as well. --Trialpears (talk) 21:51, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Endorse. TerraCyprus (talk) 15:26, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

done Frietjes (talk) 15:52, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Thank you! TerraCyprus (talk) 17:05, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

FIPS, GNIS, VIAF

FIPS, GNIS, VIAF used in blank-parameters, see Briarcliff Manor, New York, @The Anome: could you move that with a bot? But I think first there should be a field for VIAF. FIPS and GNIS could probably go into code1_ and code2_ TerraCyprus (talk) 22:24, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

VIAF is already in {{Authority control}}, so it should be fine to proceed with moving FIPS and GNIS to code1_ and code2_. @The Anome: could you do that with your bot? TerraCyprus (talk) 17:10, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Trialpears, since The Anome is not responding, could you move FIPS and GNIS from blank to code1_ and code2_ using autowikibrowser? example TerraCyprus (talk) 10:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Additional link options and timezone areas

I've been working on converting Template:Infobox U.S. state to a infobox settlement wrapper and found that being able to link to lists from the mottoes, nicknames, anthems and elevation labels was desirable. I have therefore made a version with this feature in the sandbox and I see no issues in the testcases. This feature will also be convenient for other countries with country specific lists.

My larger change is adding timezone_area parameters for describing in which area of the region the timezone is for. See Florida for an example. I've tested this feature and set up a new testcase for it and it seems to be working as well.

I would like to know if anyone have any objections about these non-breaking feature additions and will, if noone objects, submit an edit request in a week. --Trialpears (talk) 01:01, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Trialpears, could you fix broken links in your text and add links to sandbox and testcase, so others can simply click through? 77.183.70.51 (talk) 12:01, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Sure thing --Trialpears (talk) 12:16, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

As it's been no objections in a couple days I will activate an edit request. Because other people have been working on seperate changes in the sandbox I'll specify that it's this revision that should be moved to main. --Trialpears (talk) 20:28, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose as long as the earlier made edit request is not processed. The diff-link for sandbox vs. actual template does not work on old revisions. TerraCyprus (talk) 15:28, 6 August 2019 (UTC) - has been done. TerraCyprus (talk) 17:10, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Nickname, Motto, Anthem, Elevation

@Trialpears and Frietjes: Would prefer two steps, Step 1: nickname, anthem, motto, elevation. I support this one. The timezone-area code I don't yet support. TerraCyprus (talk) 17:13, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears and Frietjes: Would you agree with implementing Step 1 first? That Step 1 is in oldid=909637740 TerraCyprus (talk) 17:18, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Moved edit request to only include the extra link options first per @TerraCyprus:. The other change will require some more discussion. --Trialpears (talk) 19:40, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Implement this diff: [7] . The other had parameter check missing. TerraCyprus (talk) 19:09, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

done, but put the parameter check in a more logic order. Frietjes (talk) 19:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes thank you. TerraCyprus (talk) 19:27, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Please can you add the syntax entry for song (it differs from anthem). thank you.

— Hemant Dabral^Talk 02:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Time zone related changes

Re Step 2 and the time zone area, it actually is about the location of the area, not e.g. the size. "area" is used several times in the template to refer to size. What about timezone1_location? Also, the numbering "timezone_area1" seems to be inconsistent with the base "timezone1" as in "timezone1_DST":

| timezone1               =
| timezone1_location      =
| utc_offset1             =
| timezone1_DST           =
| utc_offset1_DST         =

TerraCyprus (talk) 18:52, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

That would be a more intuitive name. --Trialpears (talk) 18:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Your solution with the changed parameter name oldid=909652231. But I don't yet understand why a new row is inserted, so I don't support it for now. TerraCyprus (talk) 19:10, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

If you look at Template:Infobox settlement/testcases#Case 12: Kentucky time zone all four rows have a label. Therefore I add an extra row for a header that is only used when the space adjacent to the first entry is occupied. --Trialpears (talk) 19:40, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Sakha Republic also has two zones, but seems to be the only federal subject in Russia with more than one zone. In the US aside from states, it also affect counties, but Wikipedia information not trustworthy here, since contradicting. Time in Arizona points to Hopi Reservation, and the counties there are not only inside Hopi R., but only display one time zone. TerraCyprus (talk) 22:08, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox_U.S._state/testcases#Arizona - only the second timezone has DST, but it isn't displayed. If both have DST as for Alaska, then it is displayed. TerraCyprus (talk) 17:03, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

TerraCyprus,  Done I've also changed it up a bit. To make it a bit more concise I also flipped the order of the fields so now it's TimeZone1, TimeZone1_DST, TimeZone2, TimeZone2_DST instead of TimeZone1, TimeZone2, TimeZone1_DST, TimeZone2_DST. I can change back if requested, but I think this looks slightly better. --Trialpears (talk) 17:34, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears: thanks a lot, I confirm that DST2 is displayed even if there is no DST1 and that my other concern regarding location duplication (Template talk:Infobox U.S. state#Time zone) has been addressed too. I endorse your changes now. TerraCyprus (talk) 17:58, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

After the above edit request in section Nickname, Motto, Anthem, Elevation implement the time zone related changes. It is required for {{Infobox U.S. state}} which is listed at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Holding cell and which then can be replaced with the wrapper waiting in {{Infobox U.S. state/sandbox}}. Trialpears I now placed a second request, since it seems to take some time until requests are processed, but made explicit reference to the other that should be processed first. Please endorse if you like. TerraCyprus (talk) 18:10, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

This diff: [8], the other had an error in the unknown parameter check. TerraCyprus (talk) 19:16, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

TerraCyprus and Trialpears can we fix the DST wrapping to a second line (e.g., see the first test in the testscases). Frietjes (talk) 19:07, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: the nowrap fixed it? [9] TerraCyprus (talk) 19:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

okay, looks better, so now done. Frietjes (talk) 23:37, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

infoboxgap.js - explanation how to install and to use

Frietjes pointed to a script [10]. Trialpears made explanations how to use it. Maybe this is useful for others, since Infobox settlement has a high number of parameters.

---

Copy from User talk:

Thanks for you hint to that script! I copied it to User:TerraCyprus/infoboxgap.js. What else do I have to do to be able to use it when editing Template:Infobox_settlement/sandbox? TerraCyprus (talk) 12:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

TerraCyprus, Add importScript( 'User:Frietjes/infoboxgap.js' ); to User:TerraCyprus/common.js --Trialpears (talk) 12:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears: Now in User:TerraCyprus/common.js, pages reloaded. I see nothing new when in edit mode on Template:Infobox_settlement/sandbox. What next? TerraCyprus (talk) 12:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

TerraCyprus, It's in the tools section on the left. --Trialpears (talk) 12:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

---

@Trialpears: When in edit mode I clicked "Infobox gap" in the lefthand tools section. Then I entered the number of the first parameter that I wanted to give a higher number. That one and all following numbers where increased. I did it a second time, since I want to insert two new parameters. It worked as expected. Then I wrote an edit comment and saved the edit. [11] Thanks a lot to both of you! TerraCyprus (talk) 13:14, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Alt text bug

At Peserai:

{{Infobox settlement |name = Peserai |image = Batu Pahat, Johor, Malaysia - panoramio (18).jpg |image_alt = A dirt road }}

→→→

Peserai

Even though |image_alt= is specified, when you hover over the image, a tooltip with "Skyline of Peserai" appears, ignoring the specified |image_alt= value.

However, if you add a |image_caption=, even if the value is empty, it does the correct thing – the tooltip says "A dirt road", as specified by |image_alt=:

{{Infobox settlement |name = Peserai |image = Batu Pahat, Johor, Malaysia - panoramio (18).jpg |image_alt = A dirt road |image_caption = }}

→→→

Peserai

Neither the default tooltip of "Skyline of {{{name}}}", nor this interaction with |image_caption= is documented. What should happen here? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 02:39, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

WP:ALT does not say anything about alt text appearing when you hover over an image. In my experience, the value of the |title= parameter appears when you hover over the image. If you feed these two template examples to Special:ExpandTemplates, you should see that the alt text is being rendered correctly. In my opinion, the title parameter is not being handled correctly, however; it should not default to "Skyline of ...". That will require some experimenting in the sandbox. – Jonesey95 (talk) 08:47, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

 Fixed There are two issues here:

• A bug in the handling of empty parameters to the image: previously, empty parameters were handled differently than missing parameters. With a liberal application of {{if empty}}, that is now fixed.
• A design choice in what to present as a tooltip. As Jonesey95 has pointed out above, the alt string is not the same as the tooltip. The previous version of the template was handling the alt string correctly in all cases. The previous design choice for what to display as a tooltip: ignore the alt string when no caption was provided, and to use a default string. I have changed the template to display the first non-empty parameter from the following list as a tooltip: |image_caption=, |image_alt=, "Skyline of |name=", and "Skyline of |official_name=". If other editors disagree with the addition of |image_alt= to this chain of tooltip choices, it is extremely easy to revert. —hike395 (talk) 09:17, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

• How about eliminating the "Skyline of" prefixing, since these are not always (often?) used for skylines. I see that |image= actually a synonym for |image_skyline=, but the description is "Despite the name it can be any image that an editor wishes". —[AlanM1(talk)]— 05:07, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

@AlanM1 and Jonesey95: bringing this back up. I agree with Alan that the images frequently are not of the skyline of the settlement. But if we drop "skyline of", what is the purpose of the tooltip? Our unsighted readers will hear the alt text. Our sighted readers will see the photograph and read the caption. Why is it helpful to put just the caption or name into the tooltip for sighted readers? It doesn't give any more information than what they can read elsewhere in the infobox.

I'm proposing just dropping any logic for the tooltip. The tooltip would contain the alt text (if provided), and is disabled otherwise. What do other editors think? —hike395 (talk) 16:18, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

@Hike395: support and remove "skyline" anywhere where things other than skyline are allowed to be. A representative image should be fine. Photographs made from satellites might fit too. TerraCyprus (talk) 19:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done I went the slightly less radical route of not using |name= or |official_name= as a tooltip, but leaving everything else. That is, the tooltip will be either the caption or alt (caption if both). Now live. We can improve upon this, if desired. —hike395 (talk) 20:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

World map - usage of place infoboxes.svg

• green : Infobox settlement (only)
• turquoise: 1 Infobox settlement wrapper having less than 10000 transclusions (light 0-99, medium 100-999, dark 1000-9999 transclusions) and optionally Infobox settlement
• blue : >1 Infobox settlement wrapper and optionally Infobox settlement (light: 1 wrapper [>10000 transclusions], medium : 2 wrappers, dark : 3+ wrappers)
• red : other infobox(es) (light: 1, medium : 2, dark : >2 infoboxes) and optionally Infobox settlement and wrappers

Data source: Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Geography and place#Place TerraCyprus (talk) 17:05, 24 April 2019 (UTC) // updated TerraCyprus (talk) 16:47, 3 May 2019 (UTC) // updated 78.55.13.81 (talk) 15:11, 10 May 2019 (UTC) // updated 29 June 2019 TerraCyprus (talk) 20:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC) // updated TerraCyprus (talk) 14:12, 10 August 2019 (UTC) // updated (India) 89.12.16.25 (talk) 11:43, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

User:TerraCyprus - That is great! 77.183.108.3 (talk) 23:33, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

@TerraCyprus, Nice visualisation. Thanks. Arjunaraoc (talk) 04:07, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

All of Latin America now using Infobox settlement directly. 89.12.120.131 (talk) 18:49, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Latitude, longitude span

I spoke with Trialpears already about the following. In {{Infobox U.S. state}} there is, example Alaska:

| Latitude = 51°20'N to 71°50'N
| Longitude = 130°W to 172°E

Apart from whether it fits MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE I don't know how to best generalize it, maybe:

| coord_max_north =
| coord_max_south =
| coord_max_east =
| coord_max_west =

For Russia (eastern most is in the Western Hemisphere, if Greenwich longitude is the dividing line) and France (territories in South America and the Pacific) max_east and max_west could have surprises. What is the max if an entity has territory more than 180° degrees apart? TerraCyprus (talk) 19:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Just to be clear: My opinion on these fields are that they're completely useless and should be removed from the infobox. --Trialpears (talk) 19:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears: WP for article space content seems to prefer WP:verifiable and WP:reliable sources over WP:Original research ("my opinion"). There are articles, lists and at least one list of lists about "extreme points", e.g.: Extreme points of Earth, Extreme points of the Commonwealth of Nations, Most northerly point of land, Lists of extreme points, List of northernmost items.

Apart from that it could even be useful within the infobox itself, e.g. to calculate image size, as for territories with a long north-south extension compared to the east-west extension, one may like to not use the full width of the infobox to be used for a map. TerraCyprus (talk) 09:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

TerraCyprus My argument is not about verifiability or original research it's simply that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, especially in infoboxes which ought to summarize key facts. Those articles can exsist even though the extreme lattitudes and longitudes aren't key facts in regards to the states. If people want to know this fact they can easily get them at Google Maps or other mapping services. --Trialpears (talk) 10:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears: My argument is not about verifiability or original research But mine is, since you provided "my opinion" but Wikipedia consensus seems to prefer not to go by WP:OR. If people want to know this fact they can easily ... - then you provide "Google Maps" - maybe some cannot use that? "other mapping services" - which? And why send users to other places if it can be easily displayed in the infobox? Sending users to other places could be done for any kind of information, since Wikipedia according to its policies does not host original research. Regarding your reference to WP:IINFO, which part there is relevant to latitue and longitude? Did you notice that there is a parameter coordinates in the Infobox settlement? Is that information stored in hundreds of thousands of infoboxes also "indiscriminate collection of information"? TerraCyprus (talk) 10:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

TerraCyprus My opinion supported by relevant policies is exactly what I'm supposed to give you on a talk page. This is not in any way original research. Regarding what part of WP:IINFO is relevant for this situation: [M]erely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia. The coordinates parameter is completley different since that information is relevant for several orders of magnitudes more people, is used for indicating the location on the infobox map and is readily used by other services. --Trialpears (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears: I am no longer interested in your opinion if when asked for you don't provide evidence. It comes down to WP:ILIKE what you present if you don't bring in facts. Where is your evidence that for an entity like Alaska a single coordinate is "relevant for several orders of magnitudes more people" than the extreme coordinate points? TerraCyprus (talk) 14:45, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Missing space before anthem parameter

Missing space before |anthem=:

| rowclass23 = {{#if:{{{etymology|}}}{{{nickname|}}}{{{nicknames|}}}{{{motto|}}}{{{mottoes|}}}|mergedrow|mergedtoprow}}
|  data23 = {{#if:{{{anthem|}}}|{{#if:{{{anthem_link|}}}|[[{{{anthem_link|}}}|Anthem:]]|Anthem: }}{{{anthem}}}}}

Reported at Infobox U.S. state by DocWatson42 TerraCyprus (talk) 14:55, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

@TerraCyprus: Thank you. ^_^ —DocWatson42 (talk) 15:08, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistent parameters named _link

Mentioned in /doc and used in code via {{Infobox settlement/link}}:

1. |flag_link= - name of article about the item
2. |seal_link= - name of article about the item
3. |shield_link= - name of article about the item
4. |blank_emblem_link= - name of article about the item

Not mentioned there, added recently, via sandbox code provided by Trialpears. Seems it was related to the {{Infobox U.S. state}}:

1. |nickname_link= - NOT the name of the article about the item
2. |motto_link= - NOT the name of the article about the item
3. |anthem_link= - NOT the name of the article about the item
4. |elevation_link= - ?

TerraCyprus (talk) 15:25, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Tracking categories

Infobox settlement pages with bad settlement type

Category:Infobox settlement pages with bad settlement type should be renamed and the infobox adjusted accordingly, so that the name is consistent with the other tracking categories listed at Template:Infobox settlement#Tracking categories:

1. Category:Infobox settlement pages with bad settlement type (0)
2. Category:Infobox settlement uses with imprecise region codes (0)
3. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with a dot map (0)
4. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with missing country (3,125)
5. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with possible area code list (12,517)
6. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with possible demonym list (2,959)
7. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with possible motto list (2,345)
8. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with possible nickname list (1,393)
9. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with the image parameter (0)
10. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with the wikidata parameter (0)
11. Category:Pages using infobox settlement with unknown parameters (5,968)
12. Category:Templates calling Infobox settlement (30)

• NEW: Category:Pages using infobox settlement with bad settlement type

Code seems to be in Module:Settlement short description created by Galobtter.

 local category = string.format('[[Category:Infobox settlement pages with bad %s]]', cattype)

TerraCyprus (talk) 08:33, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

You have to propose renaming the category at WP:CfD first, and after it's renamed then it could be changed here and have a bot do rest of the work. – Ammarpad (talk) 08:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Ammarpad, the name is just a misnomer, as such I could rename the category by myself. But it would not be filled as long as the Module code is not changed. Anyone with template-editing rights could perform the small step of renaming the category. TerraCyprus (talk) 08:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

I know that. But if it's renamed the former category has to be deleted, right? Then that's why it's better to have consensus if such changes are OK to proceed. – Ammarpad (talk) 08:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Ammarpad, it's an obvious misnomer, it is against the culture of WIKIpedia (wikiwiki means fast) to discuss every edit. But you are actually correct - I cannot rename. It seems in the English Wikipedia moving a category is restricted to special user groups. TerraCyprus (talk) 08:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

That's what I am trying to show you and "wikiwiki means fast" does not mean we should rush. Since you got it, it's all right. Thank you. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Ammarpad, you didn't show me what I found out myself. I found no support for your claim, as there seems to be no requirement to go through CfD. The fact that I cannot move, does not mean moving without CfD is not allowed, but you can show me the policy if you like. CfD makes the whole process longer min 48h, but I filed a request [12]. TerraCyprus (talk) 09:10, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

We actually had it recently disabled except for certain user groups, so it does actually more-or-less mean that CFD is a requirement. --Izno (talk) 13:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

@Izno: I could have fixed both in 10 min. Now it takes more than 48h for the category, and then the edit-request here can be processed. And during the time one thing is done and the other not, the tracking category is broken. And many more users will be involved. We actually had it recently disabled except for certain user groups - maybe the user that would have the right to edit the module would also have the right to move the category? TerraCyprus (talk) 16:01, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

I think a C2C as the user has put forward would work here. --Izno (talk) 14:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

 On hold until the C2C is processed. — JJMC89 (T·C) 19:24, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

@TerraCyprus and JJMC89: as the creator of the category and module, this is an obvious rename. I'll do the rename when updating the module for Template_talk:Infobox_settlement#Sub-optimal_automatic_short_descriptions_for_Polish_locations. Galobtter (pingó mió) 22:58, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Infobox settlement uses with imprecise region codes

@Galobtter: you didn't create that one, but maybe you can take care of the template code after it is moved. I just filed it in WP:CfD.

• Category:Infobox settlement uses with imprecise region codes to Category:Pages using infobox settlement with imprecise region codes – C2C Template:Infobox settlement#Tracking categories

TerraCyprus (talk) 10:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Sure, I'll rename that when updating Template:Infobox settlement. Galobtter (pingó mió) 19:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done Galobtter (pingó mió) 04:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

All pages with infobox settlements

Can we add an unhidden new tracking category for all pages with Infobox settlement template for general use?

Example in different language: https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BA%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%83 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Makstitoff (talk • contribs) 09:10, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

That seems redundant to the what links here page. It lists all uses of the template and doesn't show up at the bottom of 500 000 articles. --Trialpears (talk) 18:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support. @Makstitoff:, thank you. Can then be used in petscan as primary selector. TerraCyprus (talk) 14:47, 19 August 2019 (UTC)