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User talk:Debresser

What's up?
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I mainly follow up on pages from my watchlist, occasionally adding new pages to it that spiked my interest.

Can you help identify these favicons?Edit

I would like to make a little personal use of this talk page.

I collect favicons. I have over 8,000 of them. A few of them are my 'orphans': I do not know the sites they came from.

I you think you could help, and want to do me a big favor, please have a look at them.

My 'orphan' favicons

Thanks! Debresser (talk) 17:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you tried using Google Images' search by image function. benzband (talk) 17:45, 29 August 2012 (UTC) Please leave me a {{talkback}} if you reply
Yes. But thanks for the suggestion. Debresser (talk) 18:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I now have over 10,000 favicons onwebsite, and the number of orphans is down to 11! Debresser (talk) 00:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Special charactersEdit

{{Help me}} Just like & #123; gives {, I would like to know how to make [,], and '. Where is there a list of these things? I looked, e.g. in Wikipedia:Special_character, but didn't find what I am looking for. Debresser (talk) 12:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC) --Closedmouth (talk) 13:04, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. Isn't there anything on WIkipedia? Debresser (talk) 13:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
If there is, it's well hidden. --Closedmouth (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
List of XML and HTML character entity references ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 13:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ethnic cleansingEdit

Please take a minute to look at the nature of the content that is removed from an article before blindly reverting another user as you did here . Saying that an article is 4k characters shorter is not an argument. Moreover, try to avoid putting words in other people's mouths, such as stating that I had made the "unexplained claim that this is not connected to the subject of the article". I never said such a thing. I said that the content in question wasn't connected to the ethnic cleansing of Germans from Central Europe, which it isn't. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 16:34, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

The fact that this was over 4,000 characters is an indication that this is a major edit (read: major removal), and as such needs a better explanation than a minor edit. This is surely nothing new to you.
I agree that that information was not about Germans, but why not simply create a new subsection? Why remove it altogether? Debresser (talk) 17:41, 10 October 2019 (UTC)


for intruding on your page, but I require some input I think only you could provide (it has nothing to do with wiki). I heard from an old man that in reciting the incipit of Genesis, 'elohim' must be pronounced 'elokim' out of respect for the name of God. This defies everything I know and have heard. Do you know of any Jewish community where this kind of phonetic alteration is practiced? or is it just an individual's idiosyncracy Sorry for the bother. Nishidani (talk) 08:49, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

You are welcome here. When reading the Torah "Elohim" is pronounced "Elohim". When quoting the Torah in a lecture e.g. it is common to use "Elokim" instead, so as not to use God's name in vain. Even though this would not be truly in vain, as it is part of a lecture, still, many are careful about this. Others are not, as indeed it is not in vain. I hope this answered your question. Debresser (talk) 16:05, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks indeed, Dovid. Much appreciated. I just wondered whether it was specific to Ashkenazi usage or a general substitution practiced by all communities. The important thing is that the old man reciting it thus was using lecture style, not Torah reading style. Regards Nishidani (talk) 17:35, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
It is more common for Ashkenazi rabbis to be careful about this than for Sefardi rabbis, yes. Debresser (talk) 09:45, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

October 2019Edit

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

You're currently at 3 reverts. Just FYI.The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 16:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Looks like you're now over the 3RR limit. It would behoove to stop gatekeeping and using semantic stop signs. See WP:CCC The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 16:05, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

I see 2 reverts on October 13, and 2 reverts on October 14, and I kept Shabbat in between, which is an over 24 hour observance. So how can this be a 3rr violation? Debresser (talk) 16:09, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
FYI, 27 hours can easily be seen as gaming 3RR, so I would be wary about that. El_C 16:14, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
24 hours should be 24 hours. I understand 24 hours and 5 minutes is gaming the system, but 25-26 hours should be the limit. In any case, this is a known edit warrior, who is fighting against consensus to keep an edit he made recently, so it is plain and simple disruptive editing. Feel free to block him for 24 hours for that. Debresser (talk) 16:24, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I don't know what the consensus is and am not about to block anyone on the basis of it being disputed alone (!). As for your view advancing a strict interpretation of 3RR's 24 hours, I just wanted you to know that, regardless of what you think it should be, that view is not generally shared by admins, myself included. El_C 16:31, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
User:El_C Irrespective of that, it is still quite clear that he is edit warring (having reverted at least 5 times in the past 2 days, and 3 times today). In addition to violating a host of other rules, notably WP:AGF, WP:Personal attacks, WP: Bully, and ignoring WP:CCC in favor of enforcing a "consensus" that is now at least 2 years old. For instance, I highly doubt leaving messages like this on another person's talk page is in any way acceptable. [1] The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 16:57, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Debresser, indeed, that is not a manner in which to conduct oneself. You need to stop referring to the editor and focus on the edit, instead. El_C 17:01, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I know that most admins will freely add as many hours to 24 as they see fit. I have never in my life had respect for people who apply the rules as they like. In any case, since I was over 24 hours out of editing because of my religious adherence to the Jewish Shabbat, it should be clear that I was not gaming the system. Debresser (talk) 09:50, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
I have addressed the issue on the category talkpage. Which does not mean that the editor is not the problem here. The editor is very much part of the problem here. If editors weren't ever part of the problem, we wouldn't have WP:ANI. So please stop lecturing me. In any case, I moderated my comment.[2] Debresser (talk) 09:50, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but enough is enough. He is clearly not heeding WP:El_C's warning, or anyone else's.

  There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 20:02, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.
During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.
If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:34, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Debresser (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))

Request reason:

: @NinjaRobotPirate I ask to rescind this block for the following reasons. :# You could at least have waited till I had the chance to defend myself. After all, I am a 10 year + editor, and this is not the level of courtesy I'd expect. :# I did not violate 3RR. I know that edit warring is not limited to 3RR violations, but if I am guilty of edit warring, so is User:The Human Trumpet Solo. It takes two to edit war. :# The category page in question was recently edited by User:The Human Trumpet Solo, who changed it from the consensus version of many years. Per WP:BURDEN and WP:BRD that means that he is the one that should show consensus. In other words, I hold the higher moral ground here. "# See my explanation above that I was not gaming the system when editing after over 24 hours.[3] Debresser (talk) 19:26, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Decline reason:

This edit summary is unacceptable. You need to observe our rules concerning civil discourse and refrain from edit warring, especially after having been warned about it (including by myself). Further battleground behaviour and edit warring in the future may result in increasingly lengthier blocks, so please be wary of that. El_C 19:36, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

@El_C And the previous edit summary was OK?[4] Because apart from the "ignorant", they are the same. And really, calling a Jew "Middle Eastern" is ignorant. I mean "of Middle Eastern descent" I could understand, but "Middle Eastern"? Not to mention that that page's history shows that User:The Human Trumpet Solo was stalking me when he reverted my edit. Is that OK too? Debresser (talk) 19:58, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm looking into how they ended up there. But calling someone "ignorant" and continuing the edit war was the wrong call. Did it ever occur to you to bring the matter to an admin's attention first? El_C 20:08, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I am not much rattled by such edit summaries. So no, I didn't see any reason to take the edit summary to an admin. I took part in the discussion on the talkpage, but User:The Human Trumpet Solo insists on repeating his edit in complete disregard of that discussion. I was probably going to report that tonight, but User:NinjaRobotPirate didn't give me time for that. He even didn't give me time to defend myself, which really offends my sense of justice and is quite unusual when dealing with long-time editors. Debresser (talk) 20:15, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Nor do I think that upholding my block because I called an ignorant edit "ignorant", is a good call. I mean, as far as uncivil language comes, this is not the worst of it, now is it? As a matter of fact, since you had previously mentioned that I was at risk of being blocked, I would not have expected you to review my unblock request. You were hardly neutral on this issue. Debresser (talk) 20:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
The matter (in its entirety) — not the edit summary. And you are more than free to list your contention that I lack neutrality in another unblock request. I, of course, disagree. El_C 20:30, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
How can you even disagree with that? In any case, I am not expecting anything remotely like justice on Wikipedia. But that both you and NinjaRobotPirate would be so blatantly one-sided in your decisions, that disappoints even me. Debresser (talk) 20:36, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Your reply strikes me as unresponsive — so I'll reiterate: why did you not bring the matter to an admin's attention first? Also, just because The Human Trumpet Solo also erred, does not immediately absolves you of responsibility. El_C 20:47, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
There is no rule on Wikipedia that says I can't try to reason with an editor myself first. So I really don't understand the question. Most editors are responsive to explanation. User:The Human Trumpet Solo wasn't. He is not the only one. If we were to go to admin forums as a first resort, Wikipedia would be bogged completely. Debresser (talk) 21:14, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Except, that your so-called attempt at "reasoning" with that editor is why you were blocked. El_C 21:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Human Trumpet, please leave Debresser alone. Debresser, if you agree to use dispute resolution (for example, an RFC) to resolve this, I'll unblock you. Name-calling and reverts obviously aren't doing anything to resolve it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Note that Debresser mentioned dispute resolution to Human Trumpet two days ago, but neither of them seem to have seriously pursued it or any such related requests. El_C 21:20, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I though to ask for additional input at WT:JUDAISM for starters. I also envisioned the option of an Rfc, but afterwards.
And since you are here, I do think User:The Human Trumpet Solo should self-revert, since he was a much edit warring as I was, but he is edit warring for his recent change, and that is not how things work on Wikipedia. New edits should receive consensus first. Debresser (talk) 21:22, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I was defending myself, User:NinjaRobotPirate. And my edit in both cases was already reverted, and I have not reverted since. Nor do I plan to.The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 21:25, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
It's no longer possible for The Human Trumpet Solo to self-revert since their edits have, themselves, been reverted. El_C 21:27, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
His last comment here, that he won't revert any fursther, is good enough for me to feel there is with whom to talk.
@El_C Di you investigate my accusation that The Human Trumpet Solo was stalking me when he reverted me at Category:Canadian Jews? Debresser (talk) 21:29, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
El_C is correct. My edits were undone and I have not reverted since, and I am more than happy to resolve this through discussion. The last thing I want is conflict with another editor, especially now when my health isn't exactly the greatest.The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 21:31, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
May you go back to good health soon! Debresser (talk) 21:39, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Best wishes from me, as well. El_C 21:43, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Thank you both. Much appreciated!The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 21:54, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Debresser, I did investigate this. My finding is that hounding of you by The Human Trumpet Solo did take place. El_C 21:33, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I see you mentioned it on his talkpage. OK. Debresser (talk) 21:39, 16 October 2019 (UTC)


Effective immediately. I am encouraged by the discussion above and I think the blocking admin would agree. El_C 21:48, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I will work on this tomorrow, as it is 00:50AM here, and I too fell ill this morning (thank G-d nothing more serious than a virus or food-poisoning). Debresser (talk) 21:51, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
No problem. Sounds good. Hope you feel better by tomorrow. El_C 22:06, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Update: I came home at 4AM because of Simchat Beit HaShoeivah, so this will have to wait just a tad longer. Debresser (talk) 01:51, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Middle EasternersEdit

User:The Human Trumpet Solo. Can we agree that Middle Easterners means those who live in the Middle East at present, and therefore agree that Category:Canadian Jews should not be in Category:Middle Eastern Canadians? Just like a New Yorker is somebody who lives in New York now, not somebody whose ancestors lived in New York.

Let's leave open the question whether Category:Canadian Jews should be in Category:Middle Eastern diaspora in North America, which is the same issue we'll deal with at Category:North American Jews, but I think we can at least agree that Category:Middle Eastern Canadians is incorrect? Debresser (talk) 01:51, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Apologies for the late response, User:Debresser.

  1. I wouldn't be against categorizing Middle Easterners in that way. But if we do that, we'll have to define Europeans, Asians, Americans, et al in the same manner, or else it'll be too difficult to navigate. We would also need to leave a brief note at the top of each of these categories explaining what types of categories belong (e.g. that only people who reside in the Middle East can be included under "Middle Easterners"), and what types of categories don't.
  1. The Middle Eastern Canadian category presently functions as a parent cat for Middle Eastern diaspora populations (be they ethnic or national) in Canada. That's how most of the other descent and diaspora categories are arranged right now, and that's why I tried to include Canadian Jews there. A category for Canadians who resettle/resettled in the Middle East would be called "Canadian Middle Easterners" (which does not exist), or "Middle Eastern people of Canadian descent" (which does exist).The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 04:02, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
  1. I think it is completely clear, and needs no explanation, that Middle Easterners, means precisely that: people who are at present nationals and citizens of states in the Middle East. Please notice that Middle Easterners is a redirect to Ethnic groups in the Middle East, Europeans is a redirect to Ethnic groups in Europe, Asians to Asian people, while Americans is defined in the first line of that article as "Americans are nationals and citizens of the United States of America."
  2. That is of course precisely the point of our disagreement. Jews should not be in a Middle eastern descent category. Debresser (talk) 17:40, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
The Asian people article looks fine. It makes the meaning of the term "Asian" abundantly clear. However, Middle Easterners and Europeans are not as clearly defined, and these terms remain open to misinterpretation until they are. For this reason, I support renaming Ethnic groups in Europe to Europeans and Ethnic groups in the Middle East to Middle Easterners.
But even with that problem out of the way, that would still leave the categories (which is what this discussion is about). The categories in question pertain to diaspora origin and descent, not citizenship or residence. Nevertheless, I am still not convinced that these cats do not belong under a Middle Eastern parent. If we were to ignore or downplay the ethnic (specifically Levantine/Judean) component of Jewishness, there would be no point to having the Jewish descent or Jewish diaspora categories. So why have them at all? How do you "descend" from a religion? And if we head even further down that slippery slope, where does the Jewish diaspora originate? Nowhere? Did it emerge out of thin air? Obviously not.The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 21:56, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Another thing worth noting is that anyone can become Assyrian, or Maronite, or Shawnee, etc. But we still categorize the first two under Middle Eastern people and the third under indigenous peoples/ethnicities of North America.The Human Trumpet Solo (talk) 22:04, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Speaking of courtesyEdit

You just violated the 1R rule governing the page at Jewish stone-throwing, and should self-revert.

It is now by a few hours more than 24 hours after that edit, so please consider as though I self-reverted and redid the edit. But thanks for the reminder, and I'll try to be more careful in the future.
And you please stop being a pain in the behind and don't make bad edits. Even your own edit summary read like an admission of the fact that there was no real reason to undo that part of my first revert. Not to mention that I disagree and think that removing that link was a clear improvement, since the link should be to a location. West bank is a location, while Israeli occupation of the West Bank is not, and is in addition so clearly POV motivated, that you should be too ashamed of yourself to come and complain on my talkpage. Where, by the way, you know very well that you are not welcome in general. Debresser (talk) 22:38, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
It is now by a few hours more than 24 hours after that edit, so please consider as though I self-reverted and redid the edit — What? That is simply unacceptable. I have blocked you for one week for this blatant violation of 1RR. I'll try to be more careful in the future — there was no better time to do when given the opportunity to self-revert. Wow. El_C 22:50, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Unblocked with apologies. Page is not actually subject to 1RR. Still, had it been, your response would have constituted a gross violation of the first order. El_C 22:55, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Nishidani is back to his usual seeding controversy. A shame he came back from his umpteenth retirement. Nothing good ever came from his edits or comments.
I have seen that argument used and being accepted. You may call it a "gross violation of the first order", but that is a huge exaggeration. Debresser (talk) 23:33, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
By the way, don't you want to unfollow my talkpage, El_C? It looks as though you are hounding me as well. Or was this reported somewhere? Debresser (talk) 23:34, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
No, not an exaggeration. Also, I am acting in my capacity as an uninvolved admin, not hounding you. Please refrain from such aspersions. Thanks. El_C 23:37, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Well, I still don't see what is wrong with it. Can you point out a place where it says specifically that such a construction is unacceptable? I doubt it, since, as I said, I have seen the argument being used and accepted.
I don't think that following my talkpage is fitting behavior for an uninvolved admin. I think it constitutes or comes close to a violation of the second paragraph of WP:HOUNDING. Debresser (talk) 23:50, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Please feel free to bring any of this up to review in any forum you see fit. El_C 23:51, 24 October 2019 (UTC)


Hi. Please read MOS:VAR and stop edit-warring. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 15:53, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Forget it, I've self-reverted. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:15, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Sure. I did read MOS:VAR, by the way. Debresser (talk) 22:53, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
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