Talk:Freddie Ljungberg

Career

Ljungberg played European matches in Halmstad, for example against Parma in the UEFA Cup Winner's Cup in 1995. I'm 100% sure of that, but unfortunately I don't know if he played in more matches (but I think so) so I will not be able to update the table. He must have played against Newcastle in the UEFA Cup in 1996 too, right? If someone knows more in detail, please fill it in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.115.2.197 (talk) 08:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

clubs longest serving player

what does it mean by this?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.211.239 (talk • contribs)

Of all Arsenal's current players. he's been at the club the longest. It's a common term of phrase.  sʟυмɢυм • т • c  22:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Photo

That photo isn't the clearest, it could be any bald Swedish player. Perhaps a headshot would be better? PlayCollective 01:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Why does someone keep changing the photo back to the Sweden photo? It is outdated and no longer accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.103.131.68 (talk) 22:48, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention permissible. - Dudesleeper / Talk 01:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

PLEASE! To anyone reading this, find a suitable picture of Ljungberg that we can use to replace the current image. It is so ridiculous that a couple of users would rather have a picture of him in a jersey he will never wear again, than in a jersey for the club he currently plays for. People on wiki are hyper sensitive to update page facts and stats, but are completely complacent about an outdated picture, and seem to be checking the page every 5 minutes to undo any attempt at uploading an up to date picture. Please, will some Sounders fan with a quality picture of Ljungberg upload it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattyc04 (talk • contribs) 05:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

You dont seem to understand the policies of fair use, we have a free image, that means you dont use a non-free fair use one to replace it. You don't have to have a picture from yesterday. It's not a outdated picture, it's not 20 year old, he's appearance has not changed etc... So how is it outdated? Players don't have to have picture of them playing. But even on that, him in a Sweden shirt is hardly out of order just because he's retired. chandler ··· 05:55, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, he's not actually retired yet. I agree that we should probably only replace a free image with another free image (though I don't think that's policy is it?). Mattyc04, why don't you add the fair use photo to the article for now near the Sounders FC section. I don't think anyone will object to that for now. Someone from Seattle will eventually provide a high quality, free image of him in a Sounders FC uniform I expect that will satisfy Chandlers's concerns. --Skotywa^Talk 06:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

retired referred to Sweden. chandler ··· 06:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The policy is at Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Images_2, point 12. William Avery (talk) 07:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Article title

I've moved the article back to Freddie Ljungberg, as this is the name used most commonly by the English footballing press to refer to him. There's discussion of this issue currently at WT:FOOTY#Move of Fredrik Ljungberg and Daniel Alves. Probably best following up there with any comments. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:22, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I have move-protected this at the "wrong version." Please open up a requested move discussion if you want this page to be moved, instead of a discussion on a project talkpage. Regards, Woody (talk) 14:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I have closed the Requested move request as No Consensus defaulting to no change. There is no consensus to move this page to Freddie Ljungberg, and the comment by ClubOranje sums it up nicely. Regards, Woody (talk) 20:06, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Fredrik Ljungberg → Freddie Ljungberg — Per WP:COMMONNAME. "Freddie" is the form used in most references to the player in English, and the name the player goes by. — Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:41, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support - this is the name he uses on his shirt, is most commonly called by in the English-speaking world (and press), and it is what his official teamsheet says. Per WP:COMMONNAME, can we just move it to Freddie already? – Toon^(talk) 14:59, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• That was tried and reverted back and forth. An explicit strong consensus is needed to reference back to. Woody (talk) 15:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• That was meant figuratively to express my dispair, not literally. Confusing, yes. :) – Toon^(talk) 15:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

You expect him to have "Freddie Ljungberg" on this shirt? He's used "Ljungberg" for all of his career. — chandler — 22:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, good spot! I still had the Alves argument in my head :) – Toon^(talk) 22:41, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Jogurney (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose per what FIFA and UEFA call him. And Freddie being a nickname not used by everyone, unlike Bobby Charlton, Alex Ferguson and others pointed out. — chandler — 22:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
• Support - I may have reverted the original move of this page to Freddie Ljungberg, but that was because I believed that the move was controversial, which it obviously is. A quick browse of the BBC's website revealed that he is most commonly known as Freddie these days. – PeeJay 22:51, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
• ""Freddie" is ... the name the player goes by." - what do you mean by this? Usually we use a nickname if it is particularly more prevalent - no evidence has been presented that this is the case. Fredrik seems at least as common. Where two options are fairly evenly matched there's no point swapping - roughly the same number of links and readers pick the "right" spelling, and the redirects work perfectly for the rest - the cost-benefit analysis is easy when the benefit is nigh-on zero. Needless move, oppose Knepflerle (talk) 01:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

  I'm going by personal experience rather than Google, but a quick examination of the results on the Web hits you've given shows considerably more authoritative sources using "Freddie", and the numbers given on WT:FOOTY for news results are 11,800 for Freddie and 4,780 for Fredrik. By "the name the player goes by", I mean it's the name his club uses for him and I believe the name he'd give if you asked him "what's your name". If this move were "needless" I wouldn't be butting my head off a wall trying to get it actioned. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 02:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I think he'd say Fredrik if you asked him for his name, because Freddie is just a nickname. I don't know if Arsenal called him Fredrik or Freddie, but as I've said, he's always officially called Fredrik by FIFA, UEFA, the national team and even West Ham, which for me that bears more weight. — chandler — 02:24, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Largely unimportant, since both his common name and full name can be displayed in his article. - Dudesleeper / Talk 02:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose - official documentation, even in English language, uses Fredrik. Just use Freddie as a redirect. matt91486 (talk) 00:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Official documentation is not what matters here, it's what most people know him as. I'm sure there are far more sources that refer to him as "Freddie" these days than those who refer to him as "Fredrik". – PeeJay 23:15, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose - The name used by FIFA, UEFA and his club is Fredrik. --claes (talk) 01:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Erm, actually, his club refers to him as "Freddie". See here. – PeeJay 23:15, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose I think it's reaching for straws to claim WP:COMMONNAME in this case, Freddie over Fredrik, with such small differences it's better to keep the current name and use a redirect IMO. Besides, I think Freddie is quite limited to the UK, in continental Europe I never heard anyone use anything else then Fredrik. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 00:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Comment Whilst I personally have heard of him more as Freddie, I have also often seen/heard him referred to as Fredrik. Current name with redirect works fine, and while I would have used Freddie Ljungberg if creating this page, I think enough time and effort has been used to get this far towards non-consensus for something which is a minor issue. Ain't really broke, don't really need to fix it--ClubOranje^Talk 08:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Freddie

I think we need to fix it, do I have the keep mentioning the FC Seattle Sounders? – Michael (talk) 17:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

While I did argue to move to Freddie, I think the above discussion demonstrates that there is not the consensus for such action, it is unlikely to happen in the forseeable future. – Toon^(talk) 17:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Meh. It'll happen eventually, what with it obviously being the right call and all. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 23:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Possible return to Arsenal

I just read an Article on Seattle Times about Freddie Ljungberg possibly returning to Arsenal on loan for the winter. here it is. – Michael (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Ljunberg the first player to score a goal outside England?

This is what the article says. Does this mean the Cardiff and Swansea have never conceded at home in the FA cup? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.70.69 (talk) 08:36, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

File:Fredrik Ljungberg portrait.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Requested move 26 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Rough consensus for move per common name (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 03:00, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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Fredrik Ljungberg → Freddie Ljungberg – As shown by Junior Hoilett, Pep Guardiola and Matty James, nicknames can still be common names. Unreal7 (talk) 20:43, 26 August 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. — Sam Sailor 15:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC))

• What has changed since the 2009 discussion above?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:34, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Those three names, for a start. Unreal7 (talk) 21:41, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Unreal7, WP:OTHERSTUFF is not a valid argument.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:44, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Actually, per WP:CONSISTENCY, WP:OTHERSTUFF can be a valid argument in naming and styling debates. However, it has not been demonstrated here why the said consistency should be enforced – some nicknames might be common names indeed, yet others are less common. As Knepflerle said in the previous discussion, and it still seems apt, Usually we use a nickname if it is particularly more prevalent - no evidence has been presented that this is the case.. No such user (talk) 12:28, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME  — Amakuru (talk) 15:29, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted - please add new comments below this notice. — Sam Sailor 15:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

• Support. Clearly the WP:COMMONNAME: 6,390 Google News hits for the current title, vs. 16,500 for Freddie Ljungberg.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:46, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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The only player on Wikipedia that has a nickname rather than his real name as article title

I know there are past discussions on this, but I just think the article title will get people thinking his name is actually "Freddie", it should be Fredrik. There is no other footballer that have a nickname rather than their real name in their article titles. Mohamed Salah is not "Mo Salah" for example. It just seems a bit unserious. Chronicler87 (talk) 09:04, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and I've seen Bobby Charlton mentioned as an example of those that have "nicknames" as article titles, but it's important to remember that he was knighted as "Sir Bobby", so in his case Sir Bobby Charlton would be correct. England also has the tradition to give boys a name like Robert and then call them Bob or Bobby all their lives, Fredrik got the name "Freddie" when he came to England. Chronicler87 (talk) 09:12, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME applies here. There are countless of examples of biographies, not just those of footballers, that are titled in this way. Just off the top of my head there's Teddy Sheringham, Bob Hawke, Andy Cole, Bill Clinton. Your assertion that Ljungberg is the "only player on Wikipedia that has a nickname rather than his real name as article title" is incorrect. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:22, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Bill Clinton was a great player in his days.....

Anyhow, as I already stated, there are differences. People in the anglosphere are given names but called something else from early age, that generally does not happen in Sweden, that's one, second is that he is only known as Freddie in England, and Fredrik in rest of Europe. He is called "Ljungan" in Sweden. Bill Clinton is not called William Clinton elsewhere in the world (great player though). Chronicler87 (talk) 15:26, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Also, you invoking common name etc, is wrong, he would not introduce himself as "Freddie", it's a moniker given to him by fans. While Bill would introduce himself as "Bill", since that's tradition. Chronicler87 (talk) 15:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Isn't this the English Wikipedia and not the Swedish one?--Egghead06 (talk) 15:32, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Even in the English wikipedia, that's still not his name, it's still a moniker given to him by fans. Chronicler87 (talk) 15:52, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

And one he seems more than happy to use himself [1].--Egghead06 (talk) 16:35, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Can you provide a source for that? Chronicler87 (talk) 03:03, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

I have. See above.--Egghead06 (talk) 05:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

I would not call his twitter handle a source, most people have nicknames as twitter handles. I meant more like an interview or something in which he actually introduced himself as "Freddie", I've never seen it, never seen Beckham introduce himself as "Becks" either. Chronicler87 (talk) 21:26, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

If you don't like the article title the best way forward would be for you to request a move to whichever title you see as appropriate. Consensus will then prevail.--Egghead06 (talk) 02:06, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to me that consensus matter anywhere else on Wikipedia =P. Point of this post was to see if anyone could argue against it. Chronicler87 (talk) 02:55, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't really matter if people argue one way or the other. Unless you seek to change the name of the article, absolutely nothing will happen.--Egghead06 (talk) 06:04, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

There already was a consensus though, and it seemed to be "no" to "Freddie Ljungberg" (2009), then people seemed to have kept trying until the consensus (in that much less people seem to have been involved) was to change it to Freddie. Chronicler87 (talk) 08:31, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Freddie Ljungberg?

His name is Fredrik Ljungberg. That is his name and that should be the name of the article, not Freddie. Its ridiculous: change it and show respect to him and his family. Orograph (talk) 11:38, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

You're free to request a move. BarryHero (talk) 09:30, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 1 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Very clear consensus against the move. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 21:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

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Freddie Ljungberg → Fredrik Ljungberg – His name is Fredrik Ljungberg, not Freddie and he is most known as Fredrik. DrKilleMoff (talk) 21:42, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 19:44, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - commonly known as 'Freddie' in English, see plenty of sources on article. GiantSnowman 19:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose 18,400 Google News results for Freddie compared to 6,330 for Fredrik. Freddie appears to be his WP:COMMONNAME. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:09, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom. QubeCube (talk) 06:34, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Commonly known as 'Freddie'. Examples are the Premier League’s own website [2] and Arsenal’s website [3]. He made his name in the Premier League with Arsenal. If they use 'Freddie', so should we.--Egghead06 (talk) 07:01, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME for the reasons stated above. -- Phikia (talk) 07:39, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per above. Idiosincrático (talk) 00:36, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.