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WikiProject Christianity (Rated Project-class)
This page is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Members of this Project may be interested in this discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:05, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Christian theology articles needing expert attention has been nominated for discussionEdit


Category:Christian theology articles needing expert attention has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Peaceray (talk) 06:56, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Discussion about article "List of American saints and beatified people"Edit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of American saints and beatified people#Requested move 23 May 2021, which is about an article that is within the scope of this WikiProject. Compassionate727 (T·C) 17:25, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Caste system among Indian Christians moved to Caste system among ChristiansEdit

See Talk:Caste system among Christians for the discussion. The article content only covers east Asia, but the move was made on the basis of this article. I'm not convinced the content of the source is sufficient for the move, nor am I sure the source meets RS. I don't want to appeal the move though without other eyes looking at it first. Doug Weller talk 16:30, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Most viewed start article in this WikiprojectEdit

Easter Monday 141,452 4,715 Start--Coin945 (talk) 14:10, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Catholicos of the EastEdit

Hi. I noticed that Catholicos of the East, which used to be a general article about that title, was recently turned into a redirect to Catholicos of the East (disambiguation). I hope that someone who is knowledgeable about this subject area (which I am not at all) can take a look to see if this was the proper thing to do, as an article was essentially deleted. If yes, then the disambiguation page should be moved to Catholicos of the East, and the large number of links to it should be disambiguated. Lennart97 (talk) 13:53, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Lennart97, @Br Ibrahim john: should know something about this. I, too, am rather confused by all this juggling. Elizium23 (talk) 13:55, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Catholicose of the East or the Catholicos of the East is a title historically held by the Patriarch of the Church of the East. The descendants of the Church of the East in Iraq continue to use this historical title even today. However, since 628, this title has been used to denote distinct ecclesiastical entities of different denominations. For example, the Maphrian of the East in the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Catholicos of Irenoupolis in the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch, the Catholicos of the East and Malankara Metropolitan of the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, the Catholicos of India of the Jacobite Syrian Christian Church etc. Hence it is proper to have separate articles for each of these and a common disambiguation page. Br Ibrahim john (talk) 14:07, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Br Ibrahim john, did you discuss this rearrangement with anyone, or did you just do it on your own volition? You've created quite a mess as it stands now; there are a bunch of pages linked to the disambiguation page that's been created, and the ambiguities will need to be resolved, hopefully by you, or you can put it back the way you found it and discuss the relative merits of an orderly transition. Elizium23 (talk) 14:09, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

"Interdenominational" listed at Redirects for discussionEdit

  A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Interdenominational. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 9#Interdenominational until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Place Clichy (talk) 08:05, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!Edit

Please note that Christmas ham, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by MusikBot talk 00:05, 28 June 2021 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team

Rename discussion in progressEdit

The article formerly at Christian Church has been moved to Christian Church (Protestant ecclesiology), and there is an open WP:RM discussion regarding the situation. It would be helpful if WikiProject members familiar with the concepts could comment at Talk:Christian Church (Protestant ecclesiology) on this topic. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 23:59, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Note: the RM has ended, but I would really appreciate if some could come and discuss what the future of the page should be here. Veverve (talk) 10:37, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Name for lists of R. Catholic saints, servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified peopleEdit

I have tried to harmonise the titles of articles containing a list of Catholic saints. I was met with reverts and a refusal; please see Talk:List_of_American_saints_and_beatified_people#Requested_move_23_May_2021 for the list of pages I am referring to, as well as the arguments leading to the refusal.
I still believe those articles must be renamed, and that this renaming is important, in part to avoid confusion among the readers of said articles. Thus, I came here to start a discussion.
I feel there is three problems to the current names:

  1. The titles are not standardised.
  2. The titles are "List of X saints" or "List of saints from Y", but also concern people the Catholic Church has deemed servants of God, or blessed, or venerable or beatified.
  3. The articles are lists containing only people approved by the Catholic Church being titled List of Mexican saints, List of saints of Poland, or List of Scandinavian saints. Not all saints from those regions are Catholic, for example Sigfrid of Växjö is a Scandinavian E. Orthodox saint, and there is even a category for Polish saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Even if all the saints from a region were to be Catholic, I feel that for the sake of long-term maintainability and standardisation, the articles should still be renamed.

My proposal for a standard name for those articles is: "List of Roman Catholic saints, servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified people from X". I also propose that the "List of X saints" and "List of saints from Y" redirects be deleted.
The first argument given against my renaming in the RM was that there would be no way to differenciate "saint who was a Catholic" and "person held to be a saint by Catholics". However, in mainstream Catholicism - i.e. not in traditional Catholicism -, saints, servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified people are considered as all having been Catholics. The second argument was that such a title could create a confusion, i.e. does "Polish Catholic saints" equal "Catholic saints who are Polish" or "saints of Polish Catholicism"? The adjective "Roman" I added compared to my previous renamings will hopefully dissipate this confusion. Pinging @Srnec: and @Nyttend:/@Nyttend backup: as they were the two users who opposed the renaming, and @Compassionate727: who started the RM. Veverve (talk) 01:44, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

My point was that labelling, say, Jerome a "Catholic" is POV. He is a "Catholic saint" to both traditional and mainstream Catholics and, indeed, to everybody in the "person held to be a saint by Catholics" sense. It is not NPOV, however, to label Jerome himself a Catholic. That is the concern I have with adding "Catholic" to the titles. If "Scandinavian saints" means "saints from Scandinavia", I don't see why we can't just put all the Scandinavian saints in one article. Srnec (talk) 03:20, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
Um, see Catholic (term)#Jerome. If you scroll up, you'll also see that the term was used, in an obviously including-the-writer sense, as early as AD 107, and by an eastern writer no less. And as Johnbod notes, it's simply ridiculous to see anyone from the Latin Church in the first half of the 11th century as anything but Catholic. Yes, it predates the East-West Schism by a little bit, but that doesn't somehow make him Orthodox, let alone Anglican. Nyttend backup (talk) 10:22, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
Don't we have a cut-off date for when popes & others become "Catholic"? There has been lots of discussion of this & similar points, much of it at at WP:CFD I think; looking at the bottom of pages might be productive. I'd support a combined "Scandinavian saints", but I think the denominations of post-Reformation ones (or earlier Orthodox ones) should be clear. Johnbod (talk) 03:39, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
Btw, Veverve is very wrong to think Sigfrid of Växjö, aka Sigfrid of Sweden, was not a Catholic, even if he is recognised by the EOC (and the Anglicans). Johnbod (talk) 03:42, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
@Srnec: do you have a better idea of title, then?
@Srnec: @Johnbod: I feel the expression "Roman Catholic saint" or "Eastern Orthodox saint" already conveys the idea of "according to the Roman Catholic Church" or "according to the Eastern Orthodox Church". Also, if you create an article with all saints, what will the titles of the sections be if not "Catholic Church", "Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church", etc.? It is instinctively the way to state it which comes to mind. Besides, I believe it is important to state the denomination which considers those people as saints, servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified people as early in the title as possible.
Also, if we make an article with all saints from a region according to every church - I guess you implicitly want to drop the servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified people -, the article will be too long, and we will have to discuss the names of acticles for every denomiation anyway.
@Johnbod: I am not aware of any consensus you are talking about. As a sidenote, the real religion of those people is off topic. Veverve (talk) 09:41, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
You said "Not all saints from those regions are Catholic, for example Sigfrid of Växjö is a Scandinavian E. Orthodox saint, and there is even a category for Polish saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Even if all the saints from a region were to be Catholic, I feel that for the sake of long-term maintainability and standardisation, the articles should still be renamed." I absolutely don't think we should have different lists for each denomination that recognises a set of saints - that way madness lies. That you are "not aware of any consensus" is not the strongest evidence that it doesn't exist. Johnbod (talk) 13:12, 4 July 2021 (UTC) .
@Johnbod: are you suggesting to turn all those articles into a list of all saints, servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified people from those regions for all denominations? If we put all saints etc. into a same list, the article will be too long. You do not seem to be aware of any consensus either, so we are even. Veverve (talk) 19:18, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

The problem can be illustrated by List of saints from Africa. A move to List of Catholic saints from Africa (or the longer proposed title) introduces an ambiguity. Is the reader to take Macarius of Egypt and Moses the Black to have been Catholics? They may be recognized by the Catholic church, but they are equally Orthodox, Coptic and Anglican saints in that sense. It would make more sense to me to have such a broad list encompass all the different Christian traditions. Other countries/regions may be handled differently. Srnec (talk) 00:01, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

@Srnec: pleasep ping me next time you reply to me.
What would a pan-denominational page look like? The first section would be "Saints according to the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglican [+ maybe other denominations]", the others would be numerous combinations (e.g. "Saints according to the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox", then "Catholic Church and the Anglican communion", "Servant of gods according to...", etc.) and single denominations for saints etc. only considered so by one denomination. It will not be confortable for the reader to end up with such a quantity of information. Moreover, it will be much easier to make the current title fit the content of the article than filling the entire article with every single saint etc. from every single Christian denominations.
Besides, there is already List of Catholic saints and List of Eastern Orthodox saints; do those title mean that the WP contributors consider that those Christians, for the former believed in the filioque and papal supremacy, and for the latter were Palamists and believed in autocephaly for churches? No, the adjectives are widely understood as "according to X". However, if you prefer, I can settle for the title "List of saints, servants of God, blessed, venerable and beatified people according to the Roman Catholic Church". I feel saying according to whom those people are saints, etc. as the last words is quite counterintuitive, but I can agree on using this title. Veverve (talk) 23:51, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Please help evaluate Draft:Servants of Christ the KingEdit

My particular concern is whether any of the cited sources are actually independent of the subject, but any opinions by someone more knowledgeable about the topic will be appreciated. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:52, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Is WikiProject Anglicanism dead?Edit

It's been more than a year since anyone has replied to a post on the project talk page. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:59, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

It could be. If there's a membership page, you could see if they have been active recently. If they have been, you could ask them to respond directly on their talk pages. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:14, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
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