Talk:Usher (musician)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

need his web pages

can somebody put back his .net webpages they went missing for some reason — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.88.193.230 (talk) 20:52, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Comment

Hes Brill and is amaz-balls at what he does =)

Usher does not have a middle name Lmugogo1987 (talk) 01:48, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

4 consecutive number ones

This album was not the first the yield four consecutive number ones. There are several other albums that released balls in the 80s that equalled this feat, and Michael Jackson's Bad, which surpassed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.213.243.130 (talk) 18:09, 13 July 2011 (UTC) Usher is now married to Ciera Denise Banks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.5.226.234 (talk) 19:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

usher does not go out with kukua dylis

Edit request on 13 February 2012

He is married to Lindi Fritz

"Aside from his musical career, Usher is regarded as a sex symbol." Please remove this. Regarded as a sex symbol by who? Where is the citation? This *really* needs removing.

Usher's wikipedia biography REALLY needs to be longer. He has no artistry section or a legacy section or a public image section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.78.116.209 (talk) 22:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

86.173.197.209 (talk) 22:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

 Done, great find andy4789 ★ · (talk? contribs?) 00:13, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Artist signature

Just added an image of his signature to the Wikimedia database. Please feel free to include it in the subject infobox.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Usher_Raymond_IV_signature.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChipmunkAlvin (talk • contribs) 06:03, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

rarities EP

why is there no page for the rarities EP? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.55.200.189 (talk) 02:57, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I've never even heard of it, mind adding a link to some information and maybe we can make a page? SE KinG. ^{User page.} _Talk. 18:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request - Kile Glover

In the last paragraph of the Personal life section, the correct spelling of the boy's first name is Kile, not Kyle. And the boy is Usher's former stepson, not stepson.

Current text is: "On July 7, 2012, Usher's 11-year-old stepson Kyle Glover, was hospitalized after he was struck in the head by someone riding a jet ski while sitting in an inner tube on Lake Lanier."

It should be changed to: "On July 7, 2012, Usher's 11-year-old former stepson, Kile Glover, was hospitalized after he was struck in the head by someone riding a jet ski while sitting in an inner tube on Lake Lanier."

For verification, see:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/showbiz/usher-stepson-injured/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

http://www.ajc.com/news/kile-glovers-family-we-1473926.html

http://news.bostonherald.com/track/celebrity/view/20120710reports_outlook_grim_for_ushers_former_stepson/srvc=home&position=recent

http://www.facebook.com/kile.glover

--76.189.98.15 (talk) 01:13, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Question:Why should it be former stepson? He hasn't died, and is still Usher's stepson--Mjs1991 (talk) 02:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

He is his former stepson, as the sources I provided indicate, because Usher and the boy's mother divorced in 2009. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 03:28, 12 July 2012 (UTC) 03:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Partly done: Per this story, it seems that the many sources (including earlier CBS News reports) using the 'y' spelling are probably incorrect. While you may be right about the "former" qualification, the aforementioned source just says "stepson", so I'm not going to make that change. Rivertorch (talk) 09:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, there are many sources who incorrectly spelled Kile's first name. Even the CBS story you alluded to says, "(Many reports have previously spelled the boy's name "Kyle," but the family's statement refers to him as "Kile.")" Regarding the stepson issue, it is an objective fact, both legally and by definition, that Kile is Usher's "former stepson." One can only be your stepchild if you are married to the child's parent. Usher and Kile's mother are divorced (which is not in dispute and is correctly stated in the article). Both of the sources I provided - from CNN and the Boston Herald - include the "former" status in their headlines: "Family seeks prayers for Usher's critically injured former stepson"[1] and "Reports: Outlook grim for Usher’s former stepson."[2] Please make the correction. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 14:11, 12 July 2012 (UTC) 14:24, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm seeing a mix of usages (between stepson and former stepson), but the CNN and Boston Herald (reprinting Atlanta Journal-Constitution) stories seem reliable enough to think that the wordings without it are just imprecise. Any objections to me making the change on those grounds? --j⚛e decker^talk 16:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

No objection from this quarter—it's just a question I hadn't considered a lot before. By this logic, it follows that I must have stopped being a nephew to my aunt, and vice versa, when she and my uncle divorced. Nobody in my family would have thought that for a moment, since her relationship to the rest of us didn't change one iota. Strange things, marriage and the law. "Dear Former Aunt Lavinia, thanks for the sweater. . . ." Rivertorch (talk) 17:19, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Awesome. I found it a little unfamiliar myself, which is why I didn't jump to make the edit, most appreciated. --j⚛e decker^talk 18:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Rivertorch, I completely understand and appreciate your viewpoint. And it certainly is a question that most people don't often consider. However, this is an issue about an objective, factual matter for an enyclopedic article, not about emotional feelings. I, too, have an uncle (my mother's brother) who divorced his wife many years ago. My siblings and I of course always referred to her as "Aunt (first name)", remain close to her to this day, and continue calling her "Aunt (first name)." However, factually and legally speaking, she indeed stopped being my aunt when she divorced my uncle. And I stopped being her nephew. So although we choose to continue saying "Dear Aunt (first name)" when thanking her for a sweater or some other gift, that doesn't actually make her our aunt. In our heart, she is. But for an encyclopedic article, she is not. Also, a difference with the issue of a stepchild - in this case, Kile - is that no one addresses him face-to-face or in a letter as "Stepson Kile" or "Dear stepson Kile," etc. He's just "Kile." But this discussion is not about how someone greets Kile. It's only about encylopedic correctness regarding his step status to Usher. I completely agree with Joe Decker; that sources using "stepson" are just being imprecise; while others such as CNN and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Usher's hometown newspaper, which covers him more than any other metro daily) are purposely being very precise for accuracy. Thanks for everyone's input. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 18:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request - canceled ESPY appearance

The last sentence in the Personal Life section should be removed. It says, "On July 11, 2012, Usher cancelled his appearance at the ESPY Awards later the same evening; he was due to present an award, but wanted to instead focus on his family's well-being.[118][119]" None of that is important. The fact that he canceled an appearance is a very minor detail and certainly not worthy of inclusion in an encylopedia. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 16:12, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I'll let someone else make the decision, but it seems to me that if the awards cancellation gets axed, the rest of the paragraph should, too. Otherwise, the remaining content would say nothing about Usher's personal life, being merely about an accident suffered by a former relative. Rivertorch (talk) 17:23, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The tragic event with his former stepson, which has received worldwide coverage indicating their close relationship, is a huge event in Usher's life and therefore absolutely warrants being included in the "Personal Life" section. But the fact that Usher canceled a random appearance because of that tragedy is of no importance, so it should be removed. And there's no legitimate reason to remove the rest of the paragraph. Like the saying goes, you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. But I would agree that the sentence, "As of July 9, 2012, a family friend is under investigation for the accident.[117]" should also be removed. Anything about the investigation is simply not necessary because it's not directly connected to Usher and therefore goes beyond the scope of his personal life. So I would remove the last two sentences (about the investigation and the ESPY cancellation). --76.189.98.15 (talk) 19:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC) 19:16, 12 July 2012 (UTC) 19:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Done All right, you make a good case. The offending sentences smack of recentism, anyway. Rivertorch (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, River! --76.189.98.15 (talk) 20:23, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

By the way, it would probably be a good idea to add the CNN article [3] as citation 114 (at the end of the first sentence of the paragraph) because it shows both the correct spelling of Kile's first name and that he's Usher's former stepson. It can go along with the other two cites that are currently at the end of that sentence. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 20:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Added that one, as well as the CBS News one that specifically discusses the apparent misspelling. Rivertorch (talk) 08:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request - Personal Life section

Please make the following edit to the last paragraph of the Personal life section. It will remove all the specific details about the incident itself (jet ski, inner tube, name of lake, etc.), which are simply unnecessary. The only content that's worthy of inclusion is that Usher's former stepson was declared brain dead, along with a very basic explanation of the cause. The article is about Usher, not the boating accident. If readers want more details, they can just click the cited links.

CURRENT: On July 7, 2012, Usher's 11-year-old former stepson, Kile Glover, was hospitalized after he was struck in the head by someone riding a jet ski while sitting in an inner tube on Lake Lanier.[114][115] On the following day, Glover was declared brain dead by doctors.[116]

CHANGE TO: On July 8, 2012, Usher's 11-year-old former stepson, Kile Glover, was declared brain dead following a boating accident the previous day.[114][115][116]

Also, the following source can be added as a fourth citation at the end of the sentence. It should go first, not last, because it's about the boating accident, while the last cite is about the brain death: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/showbiz/usher-stepson-injured/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

--76.189.98.15 (talk) 06:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC) 06:59, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Partly done: I've trimmed the wording, removing some of the extraneous details per your suggestion. I think that "boating accident" isn't a good idea, since a personal water craft may not be considered a boat and because the "accident" appellation relies upon an assumption. (I ditched the trademark while I was at it.) I also concluded that the location, Lake Lanier, while not essential, benefits the paragraph by adding a bit of context. I moved the CNN ref up, as you suggested, and removed one of the TMZ refs—three is probably still too many, but four would be ridiculous for what is now one sentence whose basic facts aren't in dispute. Rivertorch (talk) 09:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request - Kile Glover death

In the Personal life section, please make the following important edit regarding Kile Glover's death. The sentence is factually incorrect. The boy had NOT been taken off life support. He actually died of heart failure. Some media outlets had erroneously reported that he died as a result of being taken off life support. Therefore, the sentence needs to be changed and the two current citations (116 and 117), which are not even highly reliable sources, must be removed. I have provided two extremely reliable sources below. One is from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, which is Usher's hometown newspaper and the primary media outlet that covered the story. The other is from CNN. Both sources clearly explain that the cause of death was heart failure and that reports of the boy being taken off life support were wrong.

CURRENT: Glover was taken off of life support on Saturday, July 21, 2012 and was declared dead.

CHANGE TO: On July 21, 2012, Glover died of heart failure while on life support.

Citations: Atlanta Journal Constitution and CNN

Thanks. --76.189.98.33 (talk) 08:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC) 08:12, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

 Done If it gets reverted then seek consenus. Until consensus is reached then just the date should be fine, not the circumstances.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! But you forgot to replace the two citations (that contained the incorrect information) with the two updated sources I provided (Atlanta Journal-Constitution and CNN). --76.189.114.180 (talk) 01:20, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

 Done--Canoe1967 (talk) 01:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick fix, Canoe! --76.189.114.180 (talk) 01:30, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

You are very welcome. Far better response than I get from other IP edit requests.--Canoe1967 (talk) 01:34, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

76.189.114.180 is a good IP. As was 76.189.98.33. And 76.189.98.15. Rivertorch (talk) 04:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Middle Name

Usher has no middle name, he announced at the iTunes Festival 1st September 2012

Usher has no middle name, so why is there a middle name included on Usher's Simple English biography on Wikipedia?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.29.88.164 (talk) 23:07, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

 Done Rayman^{95 (talk)} 17:29, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 02:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

---

Usher (entertainer) → Usher Raymond – This is his real name. 68.44.51.49 (talk) 02:22, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: That may be his legal name, but it does not seem to be his WP:COMMONNAME. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:45, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - It isn't recognizable. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 06:52, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose, but would support move to Usher (singer) - per reliable sources zero compare 40,430 results. Obviously a lot of static and difficult to do comparisons. But the books thrown up in the second search show that en.wp is pushing a neologism with this article title. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:23, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support if there is evidence that the real person would like to be known officially by this name. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 14:40, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Official names should not be preferred. Otherwise Snoop Dogg would be titled "Snoop Lion". Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 16:09, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

"Officiallly" is not the point. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - why entertainer? He's clearly the primary topic so why not just Usher? See the recent move at Adele. Unreal7 (talk) 23:01, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Certainly not the primary topic. If there was a primary topic, it would be usher (occupation). Powers ^T 20:08, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    • How so? The entertainer gets way more views than the occupation.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 17:54, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
      • This was also what I was thinking. Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, a primary topic is one which is significant with respect to usage, so how often a user searches that term, which as shown by Status, users clearly search the entertainer far more than the occupation. In terms of long-term significance, Usher has remained since the early 2000s a hugely significant and successful artist. His notability and significance would remain intact through both his past and current work. Et3rnal 22:40, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. I'd support a move to Usher, as the user above me stated. Also, it's "Usher Raymond IV".  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 23:06, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. I agree with Status. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 23:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose, for who is this Raymond person? LCS check (talk) 00:53, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose move to Usher Raymond, but Support Unreal7's suggestion to move to Usher. Et3rnal 17:42, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 18:33, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

---

• Usher (entertainer) → Usher
• Usher → Usher (disambiguation)

– Several users expressed in the above discussion that the entertainer is the primary topic of the name Usher. The only possible thing close to the entertainer is the occupation - above, I provided a comparison in page views, showing the entertainer as being the most sought after.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 00:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Pageviews are not the only determining factor, especially when we have a case of proper noun versus common noun. Apple is the fruit and not the corporation. That said, the singer's popularity is the reason why we have a disambiguation page, but the common noun's meaning competes at a level greater than its pageviews would indicate by virtue of its basicness. (It's also worth pointing out that the common noun "usher" has several related meanings that are covered in different articles; they should be considered in aggregate when looking at pageviews.) Powers ^T 01:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Google searches and page views reflect internet browsing habits. Reflecting internet browsing habits is not the aim of an encyclopedia. Short English language words that have multiple associate Wikipedia pages should always go first to a disambiguation page. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
• Strong oppose WP:RECENTISM, the job is highly likely, and there's more than one entertainer. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. per all above, but as before would support correction of the disamb bracket to what is actually used in printed sources, i.e. Usher (singer). In ictu oculi (talk) 03:04, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I'd prefer "singer" as well, but I think we're in the minority there. Jenks24 (talk) 10:54, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per the second criterion of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. IMO the singer does not have more long-term importance or educational value than the occupation. Jenks24 (talk) 10:54, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support. And so do several others in the previous move request. Unreal7 (talk) 23:42, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support Per explanation in previous discussion. Et3rnal 21:30, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 4

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved(non-admin closure) jcc (tea and biscuits) 09:42, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

---

Usher (entertainer) → Usher Raymond – If Beyoncé Knowles doesn't go by her mononym on Wikipedia, neither should Usher. 68.44.51.49 (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment we just discussed this in March, see #Requested move 1 ; and you were the one who proposed that. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:25, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. As for Beyoncé Knowles, to understand the relevance of that abomination here, see WP:OTHERSTUFF. --B2C 04:27, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose; he never uses his last name in credits. Beyonce does. Powers ^T 13:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support on the basis that "(entertainer)" as a disambiguator ought to be destroyed with fire. This is not a comment on the appropriateness of the move target; Usher (skdjfhlwiuer) would also be an improvement. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 17:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose, per WP:COMMONAME. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 06:58, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support; natural disambiguation is better than making up our own parenthetical disambiguation. Nobody outside wikipedia calls him "Usher (entertainer)", so it is not clear to me how WP:COMMONNAME supports the current title. bobrayner (talk) 22:08, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

  The same way it does for any title we use with a parenthetical disambiguator; by ignoring what's in parenthesis. You've got it backwards; we first choose the commonname ("Usher" in this case) and then choose a disambiguator in addition to it. Powers ^T 00:28, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support Per bobrayner. Et3rnal 22:33, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose Usher is more commonly referred to by his mononym, so Usher Raymond wouldn't be very suitable. Though it's obvious that consensus for simply Usher will never be reached. Et3rnal 15:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The problem here is that reliable sources are not needed for dab purposes since they are simply attached to the common name for Wikipedia purposes. We are not calling him Usher entertainer but calling him Usher and then identifying him as an entertainer to separate him from the other entries called Usher. If the reliable source suggestion was the actual rule we would need to move Barack (brandy), Contra (video game), Magneto (comics), Lost (TV series), Cars (film), and likely thousands of others. For example, I doubt any reliable source discussing the film Cars actually used Cars (film) when discussing it though the fact that it was named cars and was a film would not be in dispute.--174.95.111.89 (talk) 22:03, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - I also proposed just Usher, and I'm still certain that he's the primary topic ahead of an usher. Unreal7 (talk) 17:20, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose just "Usher" of Unreal7's ; the occupation is at the very least, competitive, and therefore the singer is not primary topic. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 00:52, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Come again? A singer who's been around for a fairly short time and many people haven't heard of is more notable than an occupation that's been around for centuries and everybody has heard of? I don't think so. This is a proper, grown-up encyclopaedia, not an almanac of pop culture. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:14, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
    • So in your eyes, 20 years is a "short time"? And it's obvious that more people have heard of the singer versus the occupation. In the last 30 days, as of May 29, Usher's article has been viewed 248,743 compared to the occupation's measly 2236. Et3rnal 11:09, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
      • In the great scheme of things, it is indeed a very short time. And all the page views mean is that most people know what an usher is and don't need to look it up. They don't in any shape or form mean that more people have heard of the singer. How on earth would you come to that conclusion? -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
        • I came to that conclusion using actual figures, where as you're opposing it with what you think, making my argument actually valid. Though if that's what you believe page views to represent, then so be it, your opinion of course, and I don't want to keep this going. I've changed my views (shown above) in regards to Usher Raymond being a suitable title, so I think we can both agree to that. Though 20 years is still long for a music career, by any stretch of the imagination. Et3rnal 15:29, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
          • Your argument must be valid just because I didn't quote statistics, even though the statistics you quoted are meaningless?! Oh priceless. This just gets funnier and funnier! Please, more, more... -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:14, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Ummm... Calm down, I already said I didn't want to go on with this. Though if you want to carry on being childish, then go for it. I'm not going to bother replying. Et3rnal 16:41, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Beyoncé is sometimes known as Beyoncé Knowles. Usher isn't known as Usher Raymond. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes he is. I hear it a lot. 68.44.51.49 (talk) 21:14, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Can you mention where he is often referred to by his full name.--174.95.111.89 (talk) 02:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - There are 180 artices using his full name, as opposed to single name (thousands of results, depending on whether Google News lets users pass the 10th page of results). (4 million (Usher Raymond) vs. 117 million (Usher)) That still counts as "fairly often" per WP:NCP#Single names. He is credited mostly as "Usher Raymond" by movies and shows, according to IMDb. He has a son, Usher Raymond V. --George Ho (talk) 20:49, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. A bit similar to Beyonce, however, he does not use his last name as much as she does. If you look at his IMDb, it shows that he has used many different names. Usher Raymond, Usher Raymond IV, Usher, Usher 'Mr. Entertainment'... He's still most commonly known as simply Usher; this differs from Beyonce, as she is commonly known by both names.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 02:34, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I would support a move to Usher (singer), though, as I don't really see the "entertainer" title as fitting for him, as, say, Madonna (entertainer).  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 02:37, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
    • How is "Usher Raymond" an "obscure" name by any means besides less usage? --George Ho (talk) 04:57, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Look at IMDb again: he is commonly credited as "Usher" and "Usher Raymond" in "Self" credits. --George Ho (talk) 05:01, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
      • I wouldn't really go with what IMDb states, as its reliability is in question. Et3rnal 12:07, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
        • In that case, I don't have his albums, so can anyone who has them check the credits for usage of his full name? There is Raymond v. Raymond. --George Ho (talk) 13:18, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
          • All his albums credit him as "Usher Raymond" though under a quote of his in the liner notes for Looking 4 Myself, he is "Usher Raymond IV". Et3rnal 16:41, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Veganism

Is Usher's veganism really noteworthy enough to include in his bio? It's not like he's the poster boy for a vegan organisation or company (that I know of). Adabow (talk) 01:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 August 2013

On August 5, 2013, Usher's 5-year-old son was hospitalized after a pool accident at the his home. "in the his home" please remove "the" (or "his") 74.126.84.52 (talk) 07:41, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. Rivertorch (talk) 08:59, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Usher has kept custody of his 2 sons as of 10 August 2013.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.249.69 (talk) 20:22, 10 August 2013 (UTC) 

Requested move 5

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Also, can we wait a little bit, maybe until next year, before proposing this move again? -- tariqabjotu 02:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

---

Usher (entertainer) → Usher Raymond – While the singer is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of the term "Usher", I would think that adding his surname to the title would not only follow WP:NATURAL recommendations, but would continue to phase out the "entertainer" disambiguator. Relisted. Favonian (talk) 13:43, 17 August 2013 (UTC). WikiRedactor (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NATURAL Adabow (talk) 21:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• I've previously supported just Usher, but I'm more leaning towards Usher (singer) now. Unreal7 (talk) 22:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. He is commonly known as simply Usher. — Status (talk · contribs) 23:03, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't contest this (and I don't think WikiRedactor would either), but disambiguating by adding his surname rather than "entertainer" makes more sense, per WP:NATURAL. Adabow (talk) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Has anything changed since this request has been rejected in both March and June of this year?--70.49.82.207 (talk) 05:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

WikiRedactor has this time brought up the point of natural disambiguation, which is new reasoning for the move. Adabow (talk) 05:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose by analogy with Madonna (entertainer). Deor (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Madonna doesn't actually have a surname though, so I don't think this is a fair comparison, let alone reason (WP:OTHERSTUFF). Adabow (talk) 21:57, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

She certainly does have a surname, and the first words of that article give it. Deor (talk) 23:51, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support, we should prefer natural disambiguation over unnatural disambiguation, and any disambiguation at all over the meaningless "entertainer". 168.12.44.2 (talk) 16:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Madonna (entertainer)? Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 20:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose, WP:COMMONAME. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 20:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Usher" is the commonname, and "entertainer" is a more common and natural disambiguator than his last name in this case, making it more recognizable to the readership. Dohn joe (talk) 21:19, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. As already discussed, he is not commonly known as Usher Raymond. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:16, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support - per natural disambiguation and "Usher Raymond" gets massively more printed hits than "entertainer Usher" which is rare and mainly limited to what is effectively WP:HONORIFIC usage. Although as previous RMs as before, in print sources it is "singer Usher" which is better still. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:31, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Usher's surname is noted on a semi-regular basis. To title the article by his first and last name would make it look neater than Usher (Entertainer.) - The Real One Returns (talk) 13:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Every single of Usher's is released under "Usher." His official website is named "Usher Official Website." It's just common sense to have it there. The first paragraph of the article even says he is usually known by his first name only. (entertainer) for this article sort of makes sense, as Usher has had several acting roles in addition to his recording career. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 17:06, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support - He is credited as "Usher" in cover arts of his albums. However, he has a last name, which appears frequently in credits of films, albums, and elsewhere. There are other sources that still use both first name and surname. --George Ho (talk) 20:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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(singer)

5 requested moves, 2 to Usher, 3 to Usher Raymond, but none to Usher (singer)

• "singer Usher" = 367 Google Book results,
• "entertainer Usher" = 25, some of them citogenesis from Wikipedia.
• "the singer Usher" = 26 Google Book results
• "the singer Usher" = 0

In ictu oculi (talk) 04:23, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

FWIW I clarified with closing admin and received answer that the request to wait a year above was mostly talking about requesting the article be named Usher Raymond, since that was the third RM in six months with that same proposal. A different move request too soon may still come across as annoying, but would possibly be preferable to the same RM again. I'm leaving this at this, but if any one else thinks a better dab might benefit the article title please { ping | me } In ictu oculi (talk) 03:30, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request - nix the "Honorific Nicknames in Popular Music" link (top of Links To Other Articles block).

OK, it's an interesting read and all, but it seems out of place. Usher himself doesn't appear anywhere on that page, and I can't easily find any reference to his having been given one on the article page. His stage name, after all, is simply just his given name...

However, the article IS something like the equivalent of five or six printed pages of text even when you strip the pictures out, so I haven't read it all and examined it with a fine toothed comb, especially as I have no edit powers of my own here. So there MIGHT be a reference I've missed. I ran out of sensible search terms to look for using the browser text search.

Therefore, if this is indeed the case, can I kindly request that instead of deleting the link, someone jumps through the portal and edits Usher into that list along with his Honorific Nickname? So it actually makes sense? And maybe puts something about it in the lede here, so it's easy to spot? (After all, I expect the Elvis article lede mentions how he's commonly referred to as The King...)

Thanks :) 193.63.174.211 (talk) 17:48, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Removed. Adabow (talk) 20:16, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2014

Please change Usher's age from 35 to 36 because he was born in 1978 and it's 2014 now making his age, incorrect. Directionette (talk) 22:27, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done for now: He's not 36 until October 14 first of all, secondly, that age is calculated by the system and will automatically update itself on his birthday (based on UTC). — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 23:34, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 12 April 2015

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 03:16, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Usher (entertainer) → Usher (singer) – 612 results. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:09, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

• Dispassionate support site:usherworld.com references singer far more than entertainer GregKaye 18:45, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
• I would actually prefer Usher (musician), since he is also a songwriter, and his songwriting is at least as significant to his success as his singing. bd2412 T 22:00, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

No objection to either. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:48, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

• Slightly prefer (musician) but support either. Red Slash 04:19, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2015

Usher is 5'8" someone at first changed his height to be 5'9" and now 5'7" Izzy Francis (talk) 01:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

 Not done I can see no mention of his height anywhere in the article, and looking through the history, it has not been there for at least 10 weeks.
Where, specifically, are you seeing a height? - Arjayay (talk) 12:46, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

When you search up Usher on google the front page is the first thing to pop up(Like name, birth, ect) A few days someone change his height from 5'8" to 5'9" and now to 5'7". And it also links to his Wikipedia page so I was wondering if you have anything to do with that, if you don't let me know — Preceding unsigned comment added by Izzy Francis (talk • contribs) 19:52, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: Wikipedia does not control what Google shows in its search results. RudolfRed (talk) 21:26, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2015

Usher's height is 5' 8" people keep changing and messing up his height(1.73m) Izzy Francis (talk) 02:03, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 21 March 2016

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The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 57 19:51, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

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Usher (singer) → Usher (musician) – Per WP:PRECISION. Usher is not only a singer, and we should only use as much precision as necessary. sst✈ 10:50, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose misunderstanding of WP:PRECISION : "singer Usher" gets 512 results vs 80 results for "musician usher". In ictu oculi (talk) 20:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose Unnecessary. He is a singer, and there are no other singers called Usher with whom he could be confused. Bazonka (talk) 18:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

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Edit request - Acting Career section - on 25 August 2016

In section 7.3 of the Usher page, under "Acting Career," the article reads: “In 2013 he began filming his role as boxer Sugar Ray Leonard for the upcoming American biographical film Hands of Stone the follows the life of Argentinian boxer Roberto Durán.” There is an inaccuracy. Roberto Durán was from Panama, not Argentina. Also, a correction of "the" to "that" would be good. 189.217.248.143 (talk) 17:23, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Album Confession

As music, "Confessions" was a diverting, glossy series of apologies and whispery shouts. (Usher's voice is seamless and coherent even when he empties his lungs.) The album presented a sinner who didn't seem particularly upset by his own sins. Its first single, "Yeah!," was an uncomplicated song about flirting with girls in a night club; it left plenty of air-conditioned space for Usher to coo and for the producer Lil Jon to bark the interjections ("O.K.!," "Yeah!") that earned him a parody on "Chappelle's Show." The lyrics were delivered like flashes of light: brief, anxious, and exciting, and perfectly suited to a voice that is long on control and short on texture. Texture, and a welcome dose of humor, came from the rapper Ludacris, who turned "birthday suit"--slang your grandmother could use--into a filthy hoot. To stay at No. 1 for twelve weeks, as "Yeah!" did, you must sound salacious but not dirty, and keep it simple enough to lure out the non-dancers, who can latch on to a phrase or word that they already know: yeah! — Preceding unsigned comment added by ADREANNA8 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

What?

"Preparing for his debut album the unthinkable thing happens to Usher and he loses his voice. Usher was going through puberty and having a difficult time adjusting his voice". Why is this written like someone narrating a story? Paige Matheson (talk) 01:45, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 5 May 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) The only oppose cites WP:TITLECHANGES but others have presented valid reasons why the title might be superior in several aspects. — InsertCleverPhraseHere 19:52, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

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Usher (singer) → Usher (musician) – It seems that the word "musician" is more appropriate in parentheses than "singer" (as seen in Drake (musician), Prince (musician), and Sia (musician), so I think it would be more appropriate to place Usher into this category. 2601:8C:4001:DCB9:E042:9F0C:5E6:3C3B (talk) 23:22, 5 May 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. — InsertCleverPhraseHere 08:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:TITLECHANGES (" If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.") Plenty of articles use "(singer)" as well (e.g. William Bell (singer), Paul Davis (singer), Michael McDonald (singer)). —  AjaxSmack  01:13, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
• Support. Subject is not merely a performer, but also a composer of his music, and lately an instrumentalist as well. The proposed title would be more accurate. bd2412 T 01:42, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
• Support per BD2412; Usher isn't only a vocalist anymore; he also plays instruments on some of his music (including notable songs).--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:42, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 9 July 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus, therefore not moved. It seems as if both sides have given an equal number of supports and opposes to this move, so this results in a tie, meaning no consensus to move at this time. (non-admin closure) 68.199.227.117 (talk) 11:49, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

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Usher (musician) → Usher (singer) – In the previous RMs it was pointed out that similar artists have "musicians" as the disambiguator, this is not the case here. Those other artists had other roles in music (such as rap and production). Usher is only a singer, he has no other roles in music. Therefore, should be moved back to Usher (singer). I also propose "Usher Raymond" as an alternative option. Ddd23 (talk) 09:15, 9 July 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. — JFG ^talk 10:38, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose on the bases that those other artist did not have different "roles" in music; none of the three take part in production at all. "Musician" remains befitting, because Usher, likewise Prince, plays instruments. Khaire Nuh (talk) 12:58, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support. Usher is a lot of things. He is an entrepreneur, actor and political activist. However, his notability derives almost exclusively from being a singer, not a "musician", and that's the disambiguator that will help readers the most. —  AjaxSmack  22:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Disambiguation should be done by the most generic term that suffices to disambiguate; it's not a merit badge. In this case, "musician" suffices. Note that I wouldn't object to a move to Usher Raymond instead, though the current title is perfectly fine. 64.105.98.115 (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support He is only mainly known as a singer, I don't k ow if he plays any instruments Rasheoda (talk) 13:02, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose – He has produced music for other artists, most notably Justin Bieber. 2601:8C:4001:DCB9:2506:132D:4CD4:3479 (talk) 15:26, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose Usher plays instruments like the drums and bass guitar [4]. "Musician" and "Singer" do not suggest a large distinction and have more or less the same connotation. The change would just be futile. 78.145.221.93 (talk) 10:32, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

 Comment: This is the tenth move request, how many more are we going to waste time on. - FlightTime (open channel) 11:50, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support. Looking through the move history, and looking at reliable sources, singer is the best fit. I understand why the article was named Usher (entertainer) - he does a range of other things besides singing. But I also see why people found that uncomfortable for years. While he does a bit of dancing, acting, and business, he is primarily known for his singing. That is what made him famous, and what keeps him famous. I also see why people have considered Usher (musician) as an appropriate title. As folks have said, the two are not far apart, and he does seem to get involved in other areas of music than singing. But singing is his primary thing. I looked at how reliable sources referred to him, and there is some variety, but the majority use singer: eonline, Guardian, encyclopedia.com, NG Encyclopedia, book: Usher, book: Usher: Famous Singer, NME. The New York Times calls him "musician, actor and entrepreneur"; EB call him a musician, Biography.com call him "Actor, Singer, Television Actor", and also "musician". While there isn't 100% consistency, a very significant majority of sources call him "singer". Under our guideline - WP:SINGERDAB - we "Use "(singer)" when the person solely sings songs or is mostly known for singing songs". It is clear from my research of sources (and reading our article) that he is mostly known for singing songs. Added to which, the move from Usher (singer) to Usher (musician) has not been properly done, so categories: Category:Usher (singer) albums, Category:Usher (singer), etc, and templates: Template:Usher, Template:Usher songs and nearly a thousand links: [5], still use Usher (singer). A move to Usher (singer) is appropriate as it follows what most sources say, follows our guidelines, and - if the argument is that it doesn't matter which one we use - "musician" or "singer", then let us return it to "singer" and save everyone the bother of updating links and changing names across Wikipedia. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 21:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support - Per SilkTork - FlightTime (open channel) 21:31, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

 Comment: Ddd23 and Rasheoda are blocked. 2601:8C:4001:DCB9:2506:132D:4CD4:3479 and 78.145.221.93 have little other editing history. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 21:44, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support more recognizable since main natural description in sources (search "the musician Usher" if anyone doesn't believe this). And he is not a deity like Madonna who can't be called (singer). In ictu oculi (talk) 17:36, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose There is nothing Madonna does that Usher doesn't (sing/dance (entertain) and play instruments). Biography.com - arguably the most renown source for identity info - clearly referrers to him as an "R&B and pop musician" [6].92.20.88.238 (talk) 16:08, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

• As this is an unusual close, given the evidence, and due to the involvement of a number of accounts with limited or no other contributions, and that two participants have been blocked, I have asked the closer to undue their close to allow someone with more experience to assess the discussion. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 18:44, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

about the move requests

What I honestly never understand: this person has two names - the one in it's passport and the one used on stage. So why do you need any category? I mean, dumb users like me just type in "usher" - and I expect to land on the page of his passport's name Usher Raymond IV after being redirected from Usher. What he is, is for me quite unclear and someone who can sing usually can play an instrument. Also he works as a moderator in "the voice". So ... what is he then? Well, he is the human being Usher Raymond IV called Usher. Unless there is in 20 years someone else being very popular with the (stage) name Usher - why bother now? And of course, easiest thing to do now is to do nothing. -- 2001:A62:1018:4402:A54A:FD63:3953:946E (talk) 18:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080513100002/http://uk.music.yahoo.com/track/1161982 to http://uk.music.yahoo.com/track/1161982
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151017092344/http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=1&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Usher&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25 to http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=1&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Usher&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151017092343/http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=2&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Usher&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25 to http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=2&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Usher&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151017092343/http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=2&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Usher&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25 to http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=2&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Usher&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110718104645/http://rnbmusicblog.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/ushers-raymond-v-raymond-goes-gold/ to http://rnbmusicblog.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/ushers-raymond-v-raymond-goes-gold/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100502020003/http://www.theofficialcharts.com/music-charts/ to http://www.theofficialcharts.com/music-charts/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/usher/albums/album/298644/review/6068196/8701

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Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2018

Well, I'm just gonna say it, today is Usher's 40th birthday and the page says he's 39. Just wanted to let you know ;) Real Zhumabayev (talk) 20:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

 Already done. It updated automatically when an edit was made. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 04:00, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2019

He's Dead 103.238.195.138 (talk) 20:50, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 20:59, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2019

Some of his album are considered to be Soul music but it won't show on his Wikipedia page AlexisTirado (talk) 19:04, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The section Musical style and influences mentions the influence of soul music on some of his albums & songs. If there is something further you wish to be added, please reopen this section (change "answered=yes" to "answered=no") and make your request in the form of "please change X to Y" while providing any necessary reliable sources. NiciVampireHeart 00:23, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Acting

Usher appeared in Sabrina the Teenage Witch in Season 6, episode 13 NOT in season 2, episode 6.91.165.47.143 (talk) 11:43, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2019

Usher has actually sold 93 million digital songs worldwide, he's sold 37 million albums in the United States and 59 million albums worldwide. He's sold over 150 million records worldwide not 75 million. You check Chartmasters if you don't believe me. Just think someone should update his record sales. 162.193.72.145 (talk) 05:35, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 19:36, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Awards

How many awards did Usher win exactly? 108.46.251.85 (talk) 01:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Who is Darshelle A Jones?

I just need to know who I am. I don't see anything that I helped or supported. I have a discrepancy about certain individuals on this page but it won't be exactly what is said by the stated party. 24.120.223.75 (talk) 14:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 14:22, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

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Usher (musician) → Usher – I searched that the mononym of this singer named Usher Raymond IV is "Usher". Much like Adele, Cher, Psy, and the most recently moved Sia, the singer serves as the primary topic. Also, "Usher" shall be moved to "Usher (disambiguation). TheRafaMarc15 (talk) 12:22, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't think the musician is the primary topic here. If there is a primary topic here, it is probably Usher (occupation). Rreagan007 (talk) 16:19, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. IMO, Usher (occupation) should be the primary topic on grounds of long-term significance. This RM basically is another one of those long-term significance vs. usage debates. Unlike the other singers that the OP mentioned, we are dealing with a common word like "usher" here. The concept of Usher (occupation) has been around for decades, far longer than the musician. The occupation is also the primary definition listed for "usher" in a dictionary, so readers may be equally likely to looking for that article too when entering it into search engines. Zzyzx11 (talk) 16:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
• Weak oppose: Unlike Adele, Cher, and Psy, "Usher" is the name of an occupation that has long-term notability and is discussed on Wikipedia. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:19, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The musician clearly is primarytopic by usage, with 93 percent of pageviews for "usher" topics on WP, compared to just two percent for the occupation. And while the occupation has been around longer than the musician, the musician has plenty of long-term significance himself. The question of significance is not how long something has been significant - it's our best judgment as editors whether one topic has "substantially greater enduring notability and educational value" than any other topic. The musician has been around 25 years now, and has amassed all kinds of accolades - that is enduring notability. From an encyclopedic (not dictionary) perspective, we cannot say that the occupation has substantially greater notability. In fact, without consulting our WP:CRYSTALBALL, it's safe to say that more readers will be interested in the musician article than the occupation article by an order of magnitude, for years to come. Why would we want to make it more difficult for editors and readers to link to and find the content they are looking for? Dohn joe (talk) 17:21, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
  • The question of significance is not how long something has been significant - it's our best judgment as editors whether one topic has "substantially greater enduring notability and educational value" than any other topic. Absolutely right. Are you really saying that the singer has "substantially greater enduring notability and educational value" than the occupation and all its variants? -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

    Well, if you read my !vote, I said that the occupation does not obviously have substantially greater encyclopedic notability than the musician, which is the question. Dohn joe (talk) 22:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per the long-term significance of the occupation. Ushers could probably go straight to the occupation per WP:PLURALPT as the only other use seems to be Ushers, New York which doesn't even have a separate article but I'd say there is no clear primary topic for the singular. The other examples given by the nom do not have anything else of significance to compete with, PRIMARYTOPIC does give Apple and Java as examples that are primary even though others ambiguous like the company and programming language getting more views. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:28, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  There are counter-examples as well, where an older topic does not get primaryness. And this case is much stronger than the others: for "apple", the company only gets three-quarters of pageviews, and only 3.5x as much as the fruit. Usher (occupation) only gets 66 views per day, where the musician article gets 2,675 views per day - that's more than 40 times as many as the occupation! Dohn joe (talk) 18:14, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  In the Apple example, not only is the company not primary but the fruit is! in this case we're not saying that the occupation is primary but that there isn't one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:28, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  I get that. I just don't understand how it helps out readers to send them to a dab page (let alone another article), when we know that 40 times as many people want the other topic.... Dohn joe (talk) 19:01, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose move. The long-term primary topic is the occupation, not the musician. O.N.R. ^(talk) 21:24, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose somebody has already brought up "Apple". Usher isn't as big as Apple Computer, Inc. And unlike twice (term), the concept of ushering needs an article (well, a redirect to Usher (occupation) or something). User:力 (powera, π, ν) 02:06, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose I don't see how you could merge the entire dab page into a hatnote on this article. I don't see this as the primary topic, considering the occupation -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 07:16, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. With the occupation and all its sub-types, the singer is most certainly nothing like the primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:00, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. I'd really love any of the !opposers to explain how not having the musician article at the base name contributes to "Ensuring that a reader who searches for a topic using a particular term can get to the information on that topic quickly and easily, whichever of the possible topics it might be." How does directing readers to a dab page (or the occupation page) make it quicker or easier for the 40 times as many people who are apparently looking for the musician article? Dohn joe (talk) 22:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

  Perhaps this is an issue that you might want to ask on Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation. Looks like that particular wording on the guideline has not been updated since at least 2010. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and specific guidelines addressing long-term significance vs. usage have evolved since then. Zzyzx11 (talk) 18:24, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2022

122.56.170.247 (talk) 00:40, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Usher is soooo hot

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. SkyWarrior 00:44, 18 May 2022 (UTC)