Names of gamesEdit

Hi BarrelProof, thanks for all your hard work on Wikipedia. Please be careful moving the names of certain types of game like Bookie Domino simply in order to make them lower case. Games compendia almost invariably capitalise the names of such games because they are often not well known (unlike golf and football), and putting them in lower case can cause confusion both with terms used in games and with working out what the actual name of the game is. Even in North America, where the trend towards lower case is most advanced, American games authors still use title case. If reliable sources use a convention, Wikipedia should reflect it. At the very least, it should not deprecate the very sources it is representing. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 08:18, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I wonder whether you are familiar with the aspects I mentioned in my edit summary: MOS:GAMECAPS and recent RMs at Talk:Fuzzy duck and Talk:Snakes and ladders. There is also one at Talk:Dozens (game). I myself was thinking that uppercase was appropriate until those discussions. I think Wikipedia internal consistency is also desirable, and there is an established Wikipedia convention about capitalization of the names of games. I see that you have not reverted my move of Bookie Domino to Bookie domino. If you dislike that move, please feel free to revert it or to open an RM discussion. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:09, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi again and, yes, I did read the edit summary and am familiar with Wikipedia conventions. I do think agree it is important that Wikipedia has a style so that editors don't indiscriminately write and spell in idiosyncratic ways. But Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and is meant to reflect WP:RELIABLESOURCES. As a games researcher I have a library of over 300 English sources from the 17th century to the present and they invariably use title case for domino games. So if Wikipedia mandates lower case it will be virtually unique and setting itself above the sources. That said, the world we live in is not monotone and there are exceptions to the title case convention out there. Firstly, a few very common and widely known games such as poker and blackjack normally appear in lower case in the press, novels and other general reading and I have no problem with that in general articles. Also single-topic books on e.g. poker usually use lower case since it's quite clear and no confusion would arise. Interestingly it's not universal. The books on Five-Up by American domino player, Dominic Armanino, refer to the game as "Five-up" in the text and not "five-up".
There are numerous examples of Wikipedia breaking with its own style rules to reflect the real world - botanical names for plants, lower case titles for e.g. eBay - using "A" or "The" in titles, something which is normally deprecated, and so on. In other words, over time the style rules get modified and become more nuanced as we understand the sources better.
BTW I haven't reverted your move because I prefer to encourage healthy discussion and consensus, and moving articles can seems at bit antagonistic. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 09:22, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps one way to help settle it could be for me to start an RM discussion for Mexican Train, as it seems to be a similar game. I could mention Bookie domino as part of the reason that I filed the RM instead of performing a bold move. — BarrelProof (talk) 12:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Just seen this. Yes, let's stop reverting until we have a consensus. Lots of games have proper names anyway; I assume they're not an issue. Bermicourt (talk) 17:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I've carried out further research on Bookie domino and cannot find any use of that name in English sources. In Austrian sources it's capitalized and hyphenated as "Bookie-Domino". I have found English sources that use the German names "Buki-Domino" and "Buki" in that format so I've moved it to the former, simply because it seems clearer, and cleaned up the names to align with the literature. The original name, "Bookie domino" is an English translation that is not found in any sources. HTH. Bermicourt (talk) 19:09, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I have opened the RM at Talk:Mexican Train, so let's continue there. — BarrelProof (talk) 01:08, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 January 2021Edit

Joss WhedonEdit

re: your clarification request. I meant towards Trachtenberg; no way of clarifying succinctly comes immediately to my mind but I welcome your help. Gershonmk (talk) 23:07, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Reaching out for an InterviewEdit

Hello, I am a student at IUPUI, studying Human-Computer Interaction. We have a project regarding the social processes of communication online. We picked Wikipedia talk pages, specifically that of IUPUI. For your comments on that page, we would like to interview you and ask some questions. It should take no more than a hour (over Zoom, preferably) and we greatly appreciate your help. Thank you.

CheeseCommander (talk) 16:04, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

P.S. I am also very new to Wikipedia, so I'm assuming you might reply to this section on your talk page. Hopefully I will get a notification if you do. Thanks again!

Edit: This is relatively urgent, we would like to talk before Monday, February 22. Thanks! CheeseCommander (talk) 16:22, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't think I'm interested. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:31, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
That's okay. Thank you for responding promptly, we greatly appreciate it! Have a great day! CheeseCommander (talk) 16:31, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Single malt questionEdit

BP, what's your take on the hyphen question, e.g. as discussed at User_talk:Rule_56#Hyphens? I find the hyphen not uncommon in sources, and it seems right to me, but there's an argument that that misinterprets the intended meaning. Does it? Dicklyon (talk) 00:23, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

After studying it a bit, I support Ian Dalziel's view. I strongly disagree with the suggestion that the fact that the term is restricted to whisky produced at a single distillery is only incidental, and I do think that "single-malt" would seem to imply using one malted grain and would imply that this is the only significant restriction described by the term, which is false. It is also worth noting that "Single Grain Scotch Whisky" is not made from a single grain; it is made at a single distillery but not from a single grain. Think about that for a minute! I also believe I have seen the term much more often without the hyphen than with it. The Scotch Whisky Regulations 2009 and the Scotch Whisky Association guidance about them do not include a hyphen, and it's a concept most closely associated with Scotch whisky. In fact, the restriction to a single distillery is listed first in the list of restrictions in the regulations. Also, the SWA summarizes the regulations by saying "the description 'Single Malt Scotch Whisky' must appear in exactly that form" (emphasis added), and the only allowed modification is that "it can be preceded by a description such as 'Speyside' or 'Islay'", describing the location of the distillery. I also looked on the web at some bottle labels, and none of them include a hyphen. The Irish regulation language also does not include a hyphen. (The phrase is not used in the U.S. federal regulations.) — BarrelProof (talk) 01:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
The definition of "Single Grain Scotch Whisky" given by the SWA is "a Scotch Whisky distilled at a single distillery but which, in addition to water and malted barley, may also be produced from whole grains of other malted or unmalted cereals." I conclude that "Single" refers primarily to the use of a single distillery, because this clearly has no restriction to the use of a single grain. (Note that this not only allows multiple non-barley grains to be used, but that barley itself is also a grain.) — BarrelProof (talk) 05:06, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I accept that explanation and interpretation. It does appear with hyphen, however, not uncommonly as I noted, so the misinterpretation is pretty widespread (probably a lot more misinterpret than hyphenate based on that interpretation). Dicklyon (talk) 06:00, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, it does seem to be used. I did some searching within Wikipedia and did not find any hyphenated uses so far, except on the single-grain dab page. I fixed that one. Unfortunately, the search function doesn't seem to distinguish between a space and a hyphen. — BarrelProof (talk) 06:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
A similar use of "single" is "single pot still whiskey". Here again, "single" refers to a single distillery (not a single pot still or a single mash ingredient). — BarrelProof (talk) 07:15, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Charlie's PlaceEdit

I see you looked at my draft. Do you think the topic is notable enough?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:51, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, although it will probably never be a very lengthy and detailed article. — BarrelProof (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:38, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's proper to ask you to participate, but this move discussion depends very much on the notability of the topic of my draft.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:47, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
In fact, as you might suspect, it was the move discussion that led me to go look at your article. So far it looks like all comments are supportive of moving the other article and turning your draft into an article. — BarrelProof (talk) 18:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 February 2021Edit

"MOS:×" listed at Redirects for discussionEdit

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The Signpost: 28 March 2021Edit


I just went in and ctrl+f for everything. Is there a bot or something that can do it? (talk) 03:15, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I think there is, but I haven't figured it out yet myself. There's something called Wikipedia:Dab solver, but I haven't learned how to use it and it seems to have some problems. — BarrelProof (talk) 03:36, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Maybe WP:DisamAssist? (talk) 03:58, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Looks worth a try. — BarrelProof (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021Edit

May 24, 2021Edit

  Please stop your disruptive editing. Wikipedia aims to provide a safe environment for its collaborators, and harassing other users, as you did on Vasa_(ship), potentially compromises that safe environment. If you continue to harass other editors, you may be blocked from editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KB1338 (talkcontribs) 05:03, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the frank communication, and back at you, but congratulations on your amazingly rapid learning of how to edit Wikipedia. It takes most people a long time to learn how to master the use of reverts and templates like that, but you managed to do that with your very first edits! — BarrelProof (talk) 15:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Relighted signature discussionEdit

As you were the first one to address concern with my signature (see User talk:DeNoel/Archive 1#Your custom signature), I would like to personally ask (I know, I've already pinged you) if you wish to reevaluate it at this time? Please do not feel in any way unwanted in the current discussion—I am personally inviting your opinion on the matter, and value it. Under the current discussion, it has been suggested that concerns with broad implications, should be handled broadly first. Do you wish to propose changes to Wikipedia:Signatures? — Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 18:45, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for such a friendly note despite our difference of perspectives. — BarrelProof (talk) 21:32, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 June 2021Edit

The Signpost: 25 July 2021Edit


Greetings BarrelProof! I have fixed your issue at Talk:Queen of Ghana#Requested move 12 August 2021. So, could you strike your comment there? Peter Ormond 💬 02:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Done. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:09, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 August 2021Edit

Nomination of Jack Angel (SHC) for deletionEdit

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jack Angel (SHC) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jack Angel (SHC) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

--Bejnar (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't think I was the one who created that article, although I do have a dim memory of trying to clean it up a little. I had to do a web search and find a copy of the old article before I even remembered what it was – apparently the "SHC" stood for "spontaneous human combustion", and probably it was the subject of a WP:RM at some point because of that strange abbreviation in the title. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:08, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 September 2021Edit

Old Oak TreeEdit

Hello BarrelProof. I don't think there is a need for a hatnote at the top of Old Oak Tree. What do you think? Paul Vaurie (talk) 00:56, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure about it. If you remove it, I don't plan to add it back. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:29, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
After further thought, I think the hatnote (now at Basking Ridge White Oak Tree, but still the target of Old Oak Tree) is desirable. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:08, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2021Edit

DYK nomination of Murder of Jared LakeyEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Murder of Jared Lakey at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 18:27, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

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Edits on Lemons page?Edit

Hi BarrelProof - I get the impression from your comments on the page I am working on that I might be doing some things wrong. I have not edited a large volume of pages, but this particular subject I know very well. Are you willing to assist me with some of the processes/procedures I might not be doing correctly? I'm not malicious in my intent, just somewhat of a noob with some things. Thanks Jcordle (talk) 17:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@Jcordle:: Yes, indeed I am willing to help. You may notice that although I have expressed myself in a somewhat irritated tone, I have not (yet) directly opposed your request to rename the article, and I have not directly accused you of having a bad intent. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:59, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 24Edit

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 2015 shooting of Eric Harris, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Secret Service.

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DYK for Murder of Jared LakeyEdit

 On 25 November 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Murder of Jared Lakey, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the police officers who murdered Jared Lakey on July 4, 2019, shocked him more than 50 times with tasers even though he was unarmed and not combative? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Murder of Jared Lakey. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Murder of Jared Lakey), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for putting this together. I was thinking of writing it shortly after reading about the event but decided at the time it wasn't clearly notable (yet). After reading about the convictions I came back to it and was pleasantly surprised to see it already created. Good work! Levivich 22:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks! I had not heard about the case at all until after the conviction – and immediately wrote an article. I was surprised at how little attention this abhorrent incident received. As with another article that I wrote on the shooting of Ryan Whitaker, it is important to remember that violent death meted out by police officers does not always involve racism. And as with another article I wrote on the shooting of Jamarion Robinson, it is important for police to consider the mental state of the people they encounter. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:22, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  Hook update
Your hook reached 9,809 views (817.4 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of November 2021 – nice work!

theleekycauldron (talkcontribs) (they/them) 05:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2021Edit

Ramesh BalwaniEdit

Hi BarrelProof, diff - would you be able to correct this, as was done with Elizabeth Holmes? I'm concerned the defense's narrative of Holmes as victim and Balwani as fall-guy is creeping into Wikipedia as fact. I am not up to date on recent court revelations to edit with confidence. There is also United States v. Elizabeth A. Holmes, et al.. -- GreenC 02:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know about that. I made similar edits to the other two articles. It's important, of course, that inaccurate information be removed as quickly as possible. However, I don't really have much time to study the case. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 December 2021Edit

Report NoticeboardEdit

I warned you [1] SFBB (talk) 00:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Great. I'm looking forward to resolving this. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:12, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussionEdit

  There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:BarrelProof reported by User:SFBB. Thank you. Mr Eat (talk) 14:03, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Re your edit summary on Arlo GuthrieEdit

There exists a Draft:Urban Milwaukee. Not sure whether the editor who produced it is going to follow up. Skyerise (talk) 15:51, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Poll at Talk:Cross-country skiing (sport)Edit

Hi BarrelProof, Thanks for engaging on the RfC here. You are invited to participate in a ranked-choice poll at Talk:Cross-country skiing (sport)#Ranked-choice poll of alternatives offered. I've entered your first choice, based on your comments to date. You can check that I did so, correctly, and rank other choices, as you see fit. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 15:42, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 January 2022Edit

The Signpost: 27 February 2022Edit

The Signpost: 27 March 2022Edit

Irish whiskeyEdit

Is it possible to replace the related sources in Irish whiskey by independent sources comnfirm WP:RS?? The Banner talk 19:25, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

After your revert yesterday (which I respect), I have started looking around for more sources, but most of what I have found has seemed promotional or potentially unreliable. Some of the better sources might be offline. As I'm sure you're aware, companies tend to stretch the truth in their marketing efforts (and some sources, even seemingly reliable and independent ones, don't carefully check everything that they print for factual accuracy). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:39, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Collaborating beverage related articlesEdit

Hi BarrelProof I noticed you collaborated with my former colleague in the past, FacultiesIntact. I recently created two new beverage related sandboxes for a new article and proposed edits for a existing article. Would you be open to review this content? Thanks in advance. --Chefmikesf (talk) 23:28, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

At first glance, some aspects look very nice and professional (e.g., very pretty pictures – almost overly so for Wikipedia), but some of it also seems to have a touch of promotional tone. I'm not sure whether I'll really take an interest in those or not. I might need to conduct some personal research involving a bottle of Lohr Cab! (Just to clarify, that's not a request for assistance with the research, in case you're wondering.) Unfortunately, I can't recall the subject(s) of my prior interaction with FacultiesIntact. Could you please remind me? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:55, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi BarrelProof Thank you for the feedback, I know wine publications tend to be promotional, so I'm open to edits on the draft. Please let me know where I can make edits to make it more compliant. Second, I took another look, and I apologize; I must be mistaken. I swore you worked on the Louis XIII (cognac) article with him, but I was wrong. THB, I see your edits all over Wikipedia, and I think that's how I made the connection. Anyways, I appreciate your input regardless.--Chefmikesf (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 April 2022Edit


Hello. I've seen that you moved several articles for iriver players, such as iriver Spinn, to iRiver Spinn with a capital R. I know this has been done because the main article iriver was moved to iRiver. But I should say that I disagree with these moves because, these devices in question were made during the time when the brand was iriver. Therefore, naming it iRiver Spinn or iRiver E100 is technically incorrect - they were not made or released under iRiver branding, but instead under iriver.

By the same logic: articles like iPod Shuffle are called that instead of Ipod Shuffle. The same way iriver Spinn should be used in place of iRiver Spinn. --Morita Akio (talk) 21:42, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't think of the iRiver / IRIVER / iriver question as different names; they are different stylings of the same name, and WP:independent reliable sources do not seem to have followed along with the company's twist and turns of capitalization. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:13, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 May 2022Edit

Sam YoussefEdit

I cannot find the opening parenthesis. Eagleash (talk) 19:42, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

It's just to the left of the "a.k.a.". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
I've found it in the meantime; looks likely to be deleted anyhow. Eagleash (talk) 20:01, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

ANI thread related to discussion in which you participatedEdit

Hi, just notifying you of this ANI thread connected to a discussion on the MoS talkpage. Boynamedsue (talk) 17:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 June 2022Edit


Usually I'd click thanks, but wanted to stop by to articulate that I (stupidly) never stopped to ask myself "what's the difference between assault and battery" and thanks to you, now I know! Mucho gracias NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:28, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks. It's a good thing to know, especially in case you or someone you know gets assaulted someday without getting battered. People need to realize that assault is considered a serious crime by itself. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
I wonder how many murdered people, mostly women, would still be alive, if everyone took the distinction seriously? Nice to meet you, carry on. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:53, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 August 2022Edit