Talk:Kelly Clarkson

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs § TopHit

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs § TopHit. The matter seeking consensus is the use of TopHit.ru as a source for song release dates. Thank you, Heartfox (talk) 04:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) (CC) Tbhotch^™ 19:21, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

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Kelly Clarkson → Kelly Brianne – Many sources say that her name is legally changing. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/kelly-clarkson-marking-her-post-164235684.html Georgia guy (talk) 17:39, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Even the source cited above says "It’s unclear if she will still be known as Kelly Clarkson in her professional life." Until it is clear that she uses her new legal name as her professional stage name, the current title should remain in place. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:18, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  Rreagan007, do some singers professionally use last names that they legally dropped?? Please give me an example. Georgia guy (talk) 18:30, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

There are plenty of entertainers who use a professional name that differs from their legal name. Let's just wait and see if going forward she uses her new legal name as her professional name. Maybe she will and we can eventually move the article, but moving an article like this too soon will run afoul of WP:ASTONISH. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose per Rreagan007. Yes, lots of people continue to use a performing name after changing their legal name. Wikipedia cares primarily about the name that is commonly used, not the legal name or even the self-promoted name. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:53, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  BarrelProof, can you give me a notable example?? Georgia guy (talk) 18:57, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  There are 14 examples in this article. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Too soon. 162 etc. (talk) 19:03, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. Rregan007 and BarrelProof, I know that, but there's an important difference. You're dealing with singers who change their name because of marriage but continue to use their birth name professionally. This is someone who's dropping her original last name, but (according to what you're saying) might still be using her dated name professionally. I've never heard of another example of this particular kind. Georgia guy (talk) 19:21, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

But your own source that you cite in support of this move says that it is currently unknown if she will use her new legal name as her stage name, and her official website is still kellyclarkson.com. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:22, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

User:Rreagan007, that statement is consistent with the comment it was a response to; specifically the words "might still be using her dated name professionally". Georgia guy (talk) 19:33, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

The various news sources I've looked at about this say she has filed a petition to legally change her name, so her name hasn't even legally been changed yet. So you want us to move her article now when it isn't even officially her legal name yet, isn't the name she's most commonly known by, isn't the professional name she is currently using on her own official website, and we don't know if she will use it as her professional name going forward. In no way would moving this article now be appropriate. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:41, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

And the name she prefers to use is not even what matters. What matters is what name other people primarily recognize and use to refer to her. Also consider Cat Stevens and Stokely Carmichael. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:30, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose, #1, her legal name hasn't changed yet. She only filed a petition to change it. #2, on Wikipedia we use Common Name, not Legal Names. For example, Betty White's legal name was Betty Ludden, as she changed it when she got married in the 60s. It is noted in her page, but the page is still called "Betty White" DonaldD23 talk to me 20:16, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
  • In addition, during her marriage to Brandon, her legal last name was "Blackstock", but this page didn't change names. DonaldD23 talk to me 20:19, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Considering the petition was just filed in court on Wednesday, it's way WP:TOOSOON to consider moving the page. We don't even know if it's going to be granted or how long it's going to take, and even then, I think it shouldn't be moved, cause the general public knows her more as 'Kelly Clarkson', WP:COMMONNAME. Snickers2686 (talk) 03:36, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. She just filed the petition to change her name several days ago. For all we know, Clarkson may back out of the name change. Even if the name is changed, it is unclear if she will stop using "Kelly Clarkson" professionally. That said, if she changes her legal and professional name, then changing her page would have to be another discussion. Looking at other examples on Wikipedia, there is Australian actress Pia Whitesell (formerly credited as Pia Miller), who had a discussion last year which saw the change of her page name. The main reasoning was that recent and sufficient enough sources referred to her by her new name. In contrast, you have Kanye West, who legally changed their name to "Ye" but the discussion argued on WP:COMMONNAME and sources still generally referring to him as "Kanye West". Clear Looking Glass (talk) 06:32, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Clarkson's 2023 song "Snowing on Wikipedia". Randy Kryn (talk) 12:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per previously voiced arguments of common name. Also, WP:CRYSTAL is applicable in that the change is being suggested on what might happen. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:55, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
• Hard oppose since Clarkson only filed for this legal name change a mere few days ago and has not been granted by court for it to take effect effective immediately according to multiple news outlets that reported on the matter. Plus, per WP:COMMONNAME, the general public has always known her professionally and still does to this day as Kelly CLARKSON. mediafanatic17 talk 14:59, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. Kelly Clarkson is still her WP:COMMONNAME so she is more recognizable under this name. She just filed for her legal name to be changed so it would be ideal to wait until it actually takes affect, but even when that happens, there would need to be evidence that coverage shifts towards her new name and away from her more recognizable Clarkson surname. I can understand why this discussion was opened, but WP:COMMONNAME is pretty clear with cases like this one. Aoba47 (talk) 17:56, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose – This request is premature, until she starts using that title for her music or her TV show then we can reconsider. JE98 (talk) 19:06, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Actress?

I see no reason why this should not be included. She has significant acting credit, not only listed in this article - but an article of its own Kelly Clarkson videography, and an article for her talk show The Kelly Clarkson Show. Please discuss why not? Thanks. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:41, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• While Kelly has acted, she is not known as an actress and acting is not a defining part of her career. Not to get into semantics, but I would consider her acting portfolio to be limited, especially when compared to individuals who are known for their acting, so I disagree with the "significant acting credit" wording. A talk show is not related to acting, and this aspect of her career is already being with the television personality wording in the lead and infobox. I would not be opposed to a more specific wording (i.e. "television host") being used instead as done in the Ellen DeGeneres article), but again being a talk show host is not the same as acting. For these reasons, I do not see a strong rationale for identifying Kelly as an actress. Aoba47 (talk) 23:39, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Completely agree with Aoba47. To Chaheel Riens, you should elaborate "significant acting credit", nothing is significant in her acting career. Her only major acting role is From Justin to Kelly, everything else were just minor roles and cameos. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:40, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Well, I disagree, but also bow to your logic - although one could argue that even a single "major acting role" thusly qualifies somebody as an actor - and won't dispute removal. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:37, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

• To repeat my original point, acting is not a defining part of Clarkson's career. While she is an actor, it is not significant enough to name in the lead and infobox. Clarkson is fair more known for her music and talk show (which again is not acting). This is not about whether or not Kelly is an actor, but whether or not it is significant enough in her career to mention in the lead and infobox, and I fail to see a strong enough rationale to support that inclusion. Aoba47 (talk) 23:08, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

WP:STICK. There is no need to repeat your original point. You won't change my opinion, and run the risk of making me dig my own heels in and prolong the conversation when I've already conceded. Just make the damn change and let it go. Chaheel Riens (talk) 06:56, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for that. That was not my intention. I just wanted to make sure my point was clear. That is all. Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Career started in 2000

Contrary to popular belief, somebody's career doesn't begin with an appearance on American Idol - the article itself makes it clear in multiple ways that she began her career before that - the lede itself says She rose to fame which is not the same as starting a career, and the first section regarding her career is even called 1982–2002: Early life and career beginnings.

No argument that it was American Idol in 2002 that boosted her into the mainstream and limelight - but it was not when her career started. Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Unless I've missed something, there has never been clarification that her career started in 2000. If we want to be technical, say it started in 2001. It says in the early life and career begins section that was when she went to LA to pursue a career and eventually started working with Gerry Goffin briefly and did demo work. IDK HappyAppy10 (talk) 15:48, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I think my original statement should be modified - the question is what year was she active from, not when did her career start?" - it seems apparent that she wasn't very successful prior to American Idol, but there is also plenty of article space saying what she did get up to, and it's clear she was trying to break into the big time. The parameter isn't for defining when success is met, but how long she's been performing for, and that seems to have been straight from (if not including) high school - in 2000. She does seem to have had a bit more success in 2001 than 2000 - but that's still prior to 2002. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:56, 1 May 2023 (UTC)