Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television
This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Television and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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WikiProject Television was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 6 September 2016. |
Noticed that this category didn't exist recently when I was creating/populating Category:Action Bronson. There are three series in that category, and I think it would make sense to move them to a subcat, but since the tree doesn't exist I'm not just going to create one on its own. Since then, I've thought about why this tree doesn't exist/appears not to have ever been created before, and I couldn't think of any reason why it shouldn't. But given it's such a seemingly obvious gap, I figured it best to ask just in case anyone here has any opposing thoughts. So are there any objections? QuietHere (talk | contributions) 04:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
- Decided just to make it per the lack of objections. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 08:48, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Featured lists § FLs for television seasons. A discussion regarding whether season articles should go through the GA/FAC or FLC process. TheDoctorWho (talk) 21:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Jeopardy! has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
FAR for Michael Tritter
editI have nominated Michael Tritter for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 11:11, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Aaron Buerge nominated for deletion
editLink: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Buerge – recently relisted. George Ho (talk) 00:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Postmodern television#Requested move 11 September 2024
editThere is a requested move discussion at Talk:Postmodern television#Requested move 11 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 04:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:One Piece (2023 TV series) § Recurring cast too long?. A discussion regarding whether the cast list is too long and what threshold of inclusion to use for recurring/guest characters. Input from the WikiProject would be greatly appreciated. Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:16, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_New_Yankee_Workshop#Low_Quality_Edits_from_Unregistered_Users,_Privacy_Concerns,_Reversions
editGreetings, I am requesting a discussion concerning recent edits to The New Yankee Workshop page. WKatastrof (talk) 18:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Updates to Template:Series overview
editI've made some updates to {{Series overview}} in its sandbox and tested them through testcases; after detailing the changes below, and waiting for any opinions, I'll make them live presently. Legacy and new parameter formats will both be supported, until such a time that all live templates have had their parameters updated accordingly, at which point the legacy formats will be removed.
For ease, any parameter listed below with a "1" includes any season numbered parameter; i.e. |start1=
being mentioned below means it applies also for |start2=
, |start3=
, etc.; also specials paramaters such as |end2S=
, |end3S=
, etc.; also multipart season parameters such as |released2A=
, |released3B=
, etc.
The changes are:
- Currently, to exclude an end date and make the start date span the whole two columns for first/last aired (i.e. the season was aired/released on the same day), you need to use
|start1=[date]
|end1=start
. This will be updated to simply use|released1=[date]
(no|end1=
set). The|released1=
parameter will span the two columns; separate start/end dates will continue to require|start1=
and|end1=
parameters. This matches the use of start vs release parameters across a multitude of television-related templates.- This applies to seasons and specials. Currently
|start1S=[date]
(no|end1=
set) for a special will make the whole two columns for first/last aired automatically. This will no longer be the case; an end date cell will automatically be included if|start1S=
is set, unless (as above),|released1S=[date]
is set.
- This applies to seasons and specials. Currently
- If any part of a overview uses
|released1=[date]
for a season (specials not included), the template will automatically change into the format as if the|released=y
parameter was set (i.e. "Originally released"/"First released"/"Last released" columns, rather than "Originally aired"/"First aired"/"Last aired" columns).This therefore deprecates the use ofThe parameter|released=y
.|released=y
will still be available, for any series that are released through a streaming format but still entirely use|start1=
and|end1=
parameters. - If an entire series overview uses
|released1=[date]
for every season, and no|start1=
and|end1=
parameters, the template will automatically change into the format as if the|allreleased=y
parameter was set (i.e. just one "Originally released" column, no separate "First released"/"Last released" columns). This therefore deprecates the use of|allreleased=y
.
Please let me know if anyone has any feedback. If not, I'll update the code and parameters accordingly. Cheers! -- Alex_21 TALK 14:49, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- That all sounds logical to me. - adamstom97 (talk) 15:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Have you set tracking categories for
|end1=start
so those can be converted? Gonnym (talk) 15:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC) - How does it work if one season is released (weekly basis) and two seasons are aired (broadcast)? For an example, like Stargirl (TV series)#Episodes. — YoungForever(talk) 23:35, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- That particular template doesn't use
|released=y
and uses its original "Originally aired" columns, but I do see your point. I might need to keep|released=y
and still implement the second dotpoint above, so that the header still automatically updates, but|released=y
can still be used as an override in a template full of|start1=
/|end1=
. -- Alex_21 TALK 23:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)- Sometimes TV series broadcasted one new episode a weekly basis for the first season on one network and then, the second season released all episodes in one day on another network. Or vice versa. Like List of Lucifer episodes#Series overview. Would this mean that we can't change it to Originally aired"/"First aired"/"Last aired" whenever there is a
|released1=[date]
parameter? — YoungForever(talk) 23:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)- All that is aired is by definition also released, but not all that is released is by definition also aired. So if there's any season that was "released" as opposed to "aired", even if other seasons were aired, "Originally aired" should be listed as "Originally released", as "released" covers it all. "Originally aired" should only be used in seasons that are entirely aired. -- Alex_21 TALK 00:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- Sometimes TV series broadcasted one new episode a weekly basis for the first season on one network and then, the second season released all episodes in one day on another network. Or vice versa. Like List of Lucifer episodes#Series overview. Would this mean that we can't change it to Originally aired"/"First aired"/"Last aired" whenever there is a
- That particular template doesn't use
- Updates made. Documentation also updated. Just quoting again for clarity:
Legacy and new parameter formats will both be supported, until such a time that all live templates have had their parameters updated accordingly, at which point the legacy formats will be removed.
-- Alex_21 TALK 00:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)- Here are two [1][2] examples of the changes that will occur. -- Alex_21 TALK 00:37, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Alex 21 Have you considered a PrimeBOT (Task 30) request for these? This is how I handled the radio and TV station infobox updates in 2020 (renames of parameters and later removal of slogans) and may prove immensely useful to you. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:24, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
Released: Airing vs streaming
edit- Proposal: Thinking about the use of "Originally aired" vs "Originally released", I'd actually like to propose that we just permanently stick with the latter, for both {{Series overview}} and {{Episode table}}. As I stated above, all that is aired is by definition also released, but not all that is released is by definition also aired. This would conform with {{Infobox television}}; even when we use
|first_aired=
, the row it still titled "Release" (this applies to {{Infobox television season}} and "Original release" too). Thoughts? -- Alex_21 TALK 04:11, 6 October 2024 (UTC)- I think that makes sense, and simplifies things. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:39, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Does this mean everything will be just first released and/or last released as no more first aired and/or last aired? — YoungForever(talk) 08:13, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's what I'm intending, unless there's any opposition to it. I just feel that "release" covers everything. -- Alex_21 TALK 08:39, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: Sometimes a TV series a co-production with two different countries have one country that broadcast a new episode on a weekly basis and another country release all episodes on one day. Having options avoid confusion to average readers. First aired/last aired on {{Series overview}} and Original air date on {{Episode table}} apply to Broadcast. Also, {{Infobox television}} still uses
|first_aired=
and|last_aired=
. Sometimes TV series that broadcast a new episode, release the same episode on their official website and app the very next day.— YoungForever(talk) 19:05, 6 October 2024 (UTC)- And no matter whether it's published through streaming sites, or broadcast on television, or any other way - is that series still not by definition released? Since when has "released" only applied to streaming series? To release something is to make it available.
- I note that {{Infobox television}} still uses
|first_aired=
and|last_aired=
- YoungForever, can I ask you, what is the row header for these parameters when they are used? What is the recommended header to use for any release information per MOS:TVRELEASE? -- Alex_21 TALK 20:13, 6 October 2024 (UTC)- "Release", but that is different as it is the very top header on the {{Infobox television}}. First aired/last aired on {{Series overview}} and Original air date on {{Episode table}} are not the top header. Release is available online/on demand and aired is broadcast/not on demand. — YoungForever(talk) 20:45, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not saying the top header, I'm saying the label right next to the dates in the infobox.
Release is available online/on demand and aired is broadcast/not on demand.
There is nothing to actually support this. Anything aired or broadcast is, dy definition, released to the public. -- Alex_21 TALK 09:02, 7 October 2024 (UTC)- Not everything air/broadcast is available to watch immediately. Back in the days, when everything was just aired/broadcasted on TV, we don't really used "released" on TV. — YoungForever(talk) 16:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- If it has been aired or broadcast then it has been released, even if it is not available to be watched after that point. We didn't use to say "released", but there really isn't any reason why we shouldn't now. "released" covers anything that has been broadcast and anything released for streaming. - adamstom97 (talk) 17:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- For an example, an American TV series released all episodes on a Canadian streaming network on one day ahead of the American broadcast whereas the same TV series broadcast a new episode every week on an American TV network. Not the same thing. The original air date is still U.S. air date, not the Canadian release date because the U.S. TV network is the primary network. Another example, an HBO TV series released the first episode of the TV series on Max two days before the original air date on HBO. The original air date is still the HBO air date not Max release date because it is a HBO TV series, not a Max TV series. HBO is still the primary network. — YoungForever(talk) 19:21, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Neither of those examples are about what we are talking about here, we are not talking about the "original" network or release date which is determined based on other factors. We are talking about using the term "released" regardless of how a series is released. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, it is what we are talking about. Aired/broadcasted on a network is not the same thing as released on a network. — YoungForever(talk) 20:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
For an example, an American TV series released all episodes on a Canadian streaming network
Then those episodes have been streamed.whereas the same TV series broadcast a new episode every week on an American TV network
Then those episodes have been broadcast.- They have both been released to the public. There is nothing to support that "Release" means streaming-only, as both infobox templates have proved - they both list any release date under "Release", as does MOS:TVRELEASE. I think you may be confusing the general definition of the word "release" with "streamed".
- Let's use List of Lucifer episodes as an example. Its first three seasons were aired, its last three seasons were streamed. All six seasons have been released. What would you propse using as the series overview header? -- Alex_21 TALK 20:18, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Local consensus can determine that. If it is release, then release. If it is aired, then it is aired. At least, you have options. — YoungForever(talk) 20:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- That doesn't answer my question for the given example. As far as I can see, there is no such local consensus concerning this. "Released" as never meant solely streaming, and there has been no agreement with you on that here. There has, however, been agreement that streaming and broadcasting are the separate types of release, "release" being the term that covers all types of distribution, which is supported by established guidelines and infoboxes. -- Alex_21 TALK 22:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Original air date and Original release date are not the same thing. List of Lucifer episodes is different because 3 seasons were streamed and 3 seasons were broadcasted. For an example, List of Arrow episodes are all aired because they were broadcasted on The CW, not released on The CW. You don't say
The first season "was released" from October 10, 2012 through May 15, 2013.
— YoungForever(talk) 23:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)- They were indeed released on The CW. They weren't streamed, is what you mean. At Arrow (TV series), can you tell me what the infobox header above the Network row reads as, and what the label next to "October 10, 2012 – January 28, 2020" is? Using your own example, what is the label next to "October 10, 2012 – May 15, 2013" in the infobox at Arrow season 1? -- Alex_21 TALK 09:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Original release and Release on Arrow (TV series); Release and Original release on Arrow season 1.
- So, why is that it is not acceptable to leave as it is then? I see nothing wrong with using aired when it is appropriate to use. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Limiting to no options is making it worse than before because you are forcing editors to just use "Release". — YoungForever(talk) 16:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm saying to leave those examples as they are, and update others templates to conform with them.
- Anyways, this is going in circles and there seems to be a misunderstanding with you as to the general definition of "releasing" media, so I'll await any further opposition or comments; if there are no further comments, then we have a solution. -- Alex_21 TALK 20:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- No, I do not have any misunderstanding. So, why it is not acceptable to continue using original air date, originally aired, first aired, and last aired? Why are editors forced to conform when it is perfectly acceptable to use "aired" when it is appropriate? Also, when templates are updated, they are automatically conform, hence, forced to conform. — YoungForever(talk) 20:51, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- They were indeed released on The CW. They weren't streamed, is what you mean. At Arrow (TV series), can you tell me what the infobox header above the Network row reads as, and what the label next to "October 10, 2012 – January 28, 2020" is? Using your own example, what is the label next to "October 10, 2012 – May 15, 2013" in the infobox at Arrow season 1? -- Alex_21 TALK 09:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Original air date and Original release date are not the same thing. List of Lucifer episodes is different because 3 seasons were streamed and 3 seasons were broadcasted. For an example, List of Arrow episodes are all aired because they were broadcasted on The CW, not released on The CW. You don't say
- That doesn't answer my question for the given example. As far as I can see, there is no such local consensus concerning this. "Released" as never meant solely streaming, and there has been no agreement with you on that here. There has, however, been agreement that streaming and broadcasting are the separate types of release, "release" being the term that covers all types of distribution, which is supported by established guidelines and infoboxes. -- Alex_21 TALK 22:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Local consensus can determine that. If it is release, then release. If it is aired, then it is aired. At least, you have options. — YoungForever(talk) 20:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, it is what we are talking about. Aired/broadcasted on a network is not the same thing as released on a network. — YoungForever(talk) 20:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Neither of those examples are about what we are talking about here, we are not talking about the "original" network or release date which is determined based on other factors. We are talking about using the term "released" regardless of how a series is released. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- For an example, an American TV series released all episodes on a Canadian streaming network on one day ahead of the American broadcast whereas the same TV series broadcast a new episode every week on an American TV network. Not the same thing. The original air date is still U.S. air date, not the Canadian release date because the U.S. TV network is the primary network. Another example, an HBO TV series released the first episode of the TV series on Max two days before the original air date on HBO. The original air date is still the HBO air date not Max release date because it is a HBO TV series, not a Max TV series. HBO is still the primary network. — YoungForever(talk) 19:21, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- If it has been aired or broadcast then it has been released, even if it is not available to be watched after that point. We didn't use to say "released", but there really isn't any reason why we shouldn't now. "released" covers anything that has been broadcast and anything released for streaming. - adamstom97 (talk) 17:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not everything air/broadcast is available to watch immediately. Back in the days, when everything was just aired/broadcasted on TV, we don't really used "released" on TV. — YoungForever(talk) 16:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not saying the top header, I'm saying the label right next to the dates in the infobox.
- "Release", but that is different as it is the very top header on the {{Infobox television}}. First aired/last aired on {{Series overview}} and Original air date on {{Episode table}} are not the top header. Release is available online/on demand and aired is broadcast/not on demand. — YoungForever(talk) 20:45, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: Sometimes a TV series a co-production with two different countries have one country that broadcast a new episode on a weekly basis and another country release all episodes on one day. Having options avoid confusion to average readers. First aired/last aired on {{Series overview}} and Original air date on {{Episode table}} apply to Broadcast. Also, {{Infobox television}} still uses
- Yeah, that's what I'm intending, unless there's any opposition to it. I just feel that "release" covers everything. -- Alex_21 TALK 08:39, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
I'm not going in circles with you. I've explained that difference between "released" and "streamed". Everything made available to the public is, by definition, released to the public. Cheers. -- Alex_21 TALK 22:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- You did not answer my questions. We have the options of using aired and released for years and flat out removing "aired" is detrimental because you are taking away the option to choose. — YoungForever(talk) 22:32, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- It remains meaning the same thing. We haven't had that choice for infoboxes - is that an issue that's been plaguing anyone? -- Alex_21 TALK 22:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Infoboxes are different though, they didn't have a choice to begin with. — YoungForever(talk) 23:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- So, it's not an actual issue at all. Okay, cheers. -- Alex_21 TALK 23:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please do not twist my words. Having options to begin with and having them taking away are not the same thing as having no options to begin with. — YoungForever(talk) 23:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- I have nothing further to add to this discussions, besides simplifying templates. If there is no further opposition, or if there is no further support for keeping the separate headers... -- Alex_21 TALK 01:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
- YoungForever your argument is that we should keep it because it is an option, not that we need it. That is not a good argument. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:12, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please do not twist my words. Having options to begin with and having them taking away are not the same thing as having no options to begin with. — YoungForever(talk) 23:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- So, it's not an actual issue at all. Okay, cheers. -- Alex_21 TALK 23:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Infoboxes are different though, they didn't have a choice to begin with. — YoungForever(talk) 23:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- It remains meaning the same thing. We haven't had that choice for infoboxes - is that an issue that's been plaguing anyone? -- Alex_21 TALK 22:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
Brad Womack nominated for deletion
editThe following link has been relisted just now: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brad Womack. Your input there is welcome. George Ho (talk) 22:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
Deprecation of totals in Template:Infobox awards list
editHello! We would appreciate your input at this discussion concerning whether totals (|wins=
, |nominations=
, and |honours=
) should be removed from {{infobox awards list}}. Best, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:22, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
Discussion at Talk:Tales of the Jedi (TV series)#Two separate shows
editYou are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Tales of the Jedi (TV series)#Two separate shows, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:55, 6 October 2024 (UTC)